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Paladine
04-12-2010, 11:12 PM
Off topic - they sure seem to have gone with the low bidder for the message board system. It's awful.
OT it's horrible, I have to say. Very hard to follow posts. I hate reading there.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:00 AM
"Supt: We Knew Prince Reported Bullying"

The scope of the bullying was thoroughly detailed in court documents. It shocked the community and the Commonwealth, but to those inside the schools, it was something they say, they already knew.

"Reports are actually quite consistent," Sayer says as he compares the school's independent investigation with the Northwestern District Attorney's investigation that alleged the school knew about the bullying before Prince's death.

Sayer says timing is the intangible that no one is considering.

"Did you guys know the bullying was going on, when the bullying was going on," CBS 3 Springfield asked.

Sayer responds: "We first learned of the bullying on January 7th and January 7th on. The extent of the bullying we did not know about. We only knew about the activity of one group of students and the things they had done on the 7th and 8th."

While Sayer won't tell us which group they knew about, knowledge surrounding the second camp of alleged bullies sprung after Phoebe's death.

Darby O'Brien said Mrs. Prince contacted the school in November. Sayer previously told us Phoebe had kept it to herself and told no one. WHO didn't tell Sayer? Or was Sayer lying? What about the cafeteria, where Phoebe was yelled at by Sharon? Teachers saw that, says the DA. What about the library incident? Who saw that and did nothing? The dox say someone did. I'm sorry but enough's, enough. Quit with the excuses and chest pounding. Some people didn't do their job. And they also have a twisted sense of right and wrong, imo. If ANY adult heard those words being hurled at that child and did nothing they should be fired, imo. They have bad judgment, as I see it.

http://www.cbs3springfield.com/news/local/90716114.html

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:58 AM
HA! Told ya :) The BIG school committee meeting is on Wednesday, I think they're jostling for support...

"South Hadley school officials blasted for blaming media"
A letter slamming the media for whipping up a frenzy over the suicide of Phoebe Prince forced a friend of the late teen’s family to lash out last night, asking why South Hadley school officials are still more focused on defending themselves.

“The kids have had the book thrown at them,” Darby O’Brien said of six teens accused of bullying Prince.

O’Brien, an advertising executive and friend of the Prince family, added, “What about the people in charge of the school?”

O’Neil also blamed the media’s “nasty tone” for the emergence of cyber-vigilantes who have hurled threats and vicious taunts at the accused bullies.

But O’Brien said it’s the lack of leadership within the schools that has made South Hadley the focus of nationwide media scrutiny. He questioned why the school committee hasn’t held emergency meetings to address the district attorney’s findings that Prince’s abuse was common knowledge in the high school.

“Why hasn’t that happened?” O’Brien said. “Why hasn’t anyone done that? Are they clueless?”
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100413south_hadley_school_officials_blasted_for_ blaming_media/

AstuteLearner8
04-13-2010, 01:04 AM
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/as_phoebe_prince_bullying_fact.html

Well, I guess in this story maybe the parents/activits will be protesting on Wednesday at the meeting?

Luke T. Gelinas said Monday School Superintendent Gus A. Sayer and South Hadley High School Principal Daniel T. Smith as well as School Committee Chairman Edward J. Boisselle should step down.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:10 AM
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/as_phoebe_prince_bullying_fact.html

Well, I guess in this story maybe the parents/activits will be protesting on Wednesday at the meeting?

Hey, Astute :wave: Welcome and thanks for the link!

Wow...I like this qoute...
Luke T. Gelinas said Monday School Superintendent Gus A. Sayer and South Hadley High School Principal Daniel T. Smith as well as School Committee Chairman Edward J. Boisselle should step down.

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 01:10 AM
she got herself into a situation that was too much for her to handle.

why these kids were so virulent in their behaviour,

There has to be a backstory to all of this, one we are not hearing about.

this was all about sex and teenage relationships.

Phoebe was using sex as a tool in her attempts to form relationships

there were at least two, possibly others, who had sex with her.

these boys allready had girlfriends,

Phoebe was better looking than them and willing to have sex

how would they be able to compete with her?


what they did was to isolate her by very publicly by exposing her sexual behaviour.

this plays out thousands of times across the country in every school (and beyond). In most cases suicides don't result though.

For Phoebe it became unbearable.

if she pushed the authorities or her parents too much about it there was the risk of her own initial role in all of this coming out


that may have been too much to bear

So she did the only thing she thought she could do to stop it.


There you go people. All that remains now is to await confirming details.

Which will come. The Defense, at least Austin's attorney, will make sure the facts above are known.

This was not in fact an "extraordinary case".

When a new girl enters the school and becomes to have had sex with at least 2 boys who have romantic ties to girl's within the school the resulting harassment would be "par for the course" and occur without exception in every school setting within which such were to occur.

Intensely saddening yes....if what lies at the root of Phoebe's promiscuous behavior was as some believe "extortion" as in: "I will get the bullying stopped if you give me some pussy"

Whatever the reason was that Phoebe wound up where she did though....

she ended her life rather than deal with the "consequences" of having had sex with god only knows how many boys. Hopefully just 2, no hopefully I am wrong altogether but, and good web sleuths will agree, it is most likely that she took her life rather than face (potential) humiliation and dealing with having (in her perception at least) let her Father down so thoroughly.

It is likely that, at the least within her last moments, Phoebe came to agree with her tormentors....that she was in fact a "whore".

So she killed herself.

Not complex, this case.

And not gonna remain, IMO at least, a suitable case upon which to expect earnest change in how bullying is addressed....once more details about this situation emerge.....so, it would appear another kid has to die. :(


ALL of this just my opinion of course. I have no special knowledge beyond an awareness of what was truly extremely "out of character" behavior of Sean Mulveyhill with the role he is accused of having played in Phoebe's torment (or at the least not doing anything to stop it)

and also the extremely "out of character" behavior of Phoebe Prince who just was not the type of person who would inflict the misery that this has and that she knew fully it would....upon her family and particularly her little sister Lauren.

There HAD to be something Phoebe perceived as "insurmountable" and likely the ONLY thing that would fit that mold would be disappointing her father....being "tarnished" in his eyes.

And to Sean: For him to have taken part in Phoebe's harassment there HAD to have been something VERY "serious" done by Phoebe to upset him.

Sean, you'll be interested to know, is said to have offered his ear to students who needed someone to talk to as result of Phoebe's suicide.

THAT is who Sean Mulveyhill was prior to this incident, also he was conscious of the need to avoid trouble that could effect potential college scholarship so for his role in this to have been anything OTHER than supporting Phoebe....

she had to have done SOMEthing that made him SO ANGRY that he forsook all.....

to see Phoebe "punished". :(


What might you conclude that this would have been? What POSSIBLY could she have done to make Sean so very upset with her?

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:14 AM
my goodness, this quote...same link...
"Sayer said Prince went to an assistant principal who was tied up handling another disciplinary matter and was told to go back to class for that reason. Sayer said the incident was reported third-hand in the district attorney’s complaint.

The school superintendent, whose contract runs through June 30 and who, at 67, is one of the oldest school superintendents in the Bay State, said he has no intention of stepping down. Sayer said the calls for resignations are always from “the same two guys,” alluding to Gelinas and O’Brien.

Boisselle said there should be “serious consequences” if an administrator was aware of the bullying and did not take action and that school officials will know more after they meet with Scheibel Wednesday.

“We are not going to be pushed around by a mob mentality,” Boisselle said, in explaining why there will be no resignations. “There is no basis in fact that Dan or Gus have done anything wrong in this situation.”
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/as_phoebe_prince_bullying_fact.html

AstuteLearner8
04-13-2010, 01:18 AM
Hey, Astute :wave: Welcome and thanks for the link!

Wow...I like this qoute...

Thanks for the welcome :hug: (wow there are so many emoticons to choose from). Unfortunately the only reason I joined was motivated by the injustices of the Phoebe Prince case but this seems to be an interesting forum.

Well I'll try to keep posting as the case goes along.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:19 AM
"Phoebe's promiscuous behavior"? Are you well? It's a stat rape charge. She was 14 and 15 and the time. I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more. I will say no more. I have places to go, people to see. I will be good, mods. ;)

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:22 AM
Thanks for the welcome :hug: (wow there are so many emoticons to choose from). Unfortunately the only reason I joined was motivated by the injustices of the Phoebe Prince case but this seems to be an interesting forum.

Well I'll try to keep posting as the case goes along.
I love the emoticons. :) My new fave tonight is.. :newbie:

For you! :) I'm outta here, it's late. But good to have you, Astute...peace...p

AstuteLearner8
04-13-2010, 01:25 AM
my goodness, this quote...same link...

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/as_phoebe_prince_bullying_fact.html

I wouldn't be surprised if that same mob mentality showed up on Wednesday's meeting. Just stop talking until Wednesday if you want to save yourselves administrators.

And can someone explain to me how the statutory rape charges were charged? I seem not to find a link on why there was a charge on statutory rape to the two young men.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:28 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if that same mob mentality showed up on Wednesday's meeting. Just stop talking until Wednesday if you want to save yourselves administrators.

And can someone explain to me how the statutory rape charges were charged? I seem not to find a link on why there was a charge on statutory rape to the two young men.
There have been no dox released on them, as yet. Maureen posted an explanation, a couple of pages back, earlier this evening, if you care to have a look. I haven't read it, yet...it's been a crazy night.

jjenny
04-13-2010, 01:29 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if that same mob mentality showed up on Wednesday's meeting. Just stop talking until Wednesday if you want to save yourselves administrators.

And can someone explain to me how the statutory rape charges were charged? I seem not to find a link on why there was a charge on statutory rape to the two young men.

The age of consent in MA is 16, so she was below the age of consent. Thus, if anyone (presumably over 16) had sex with her they would be committing statutory rape. So, if prosecutor charged two young men with statutory rape I presume prosecutor alleges they had sex with her.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:35 AM
IMO, the dox paint a picture of Sean Mulveyhill in the library at SHHS that is ugly and demented. He has one mean streak in him, humiliating a young girl while laughing and making out with his co-defendant. I, and the world, am learning alot about Sean Mulveyhill.

claudicici
04-13-2010, 01:35 AM
...I think we should also consider that Phoebe went to school in europe ..it is in fact a lot more liberal and noone would call you a "whore" or "promiscuous" for sleeping with 2 guys...

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 01:38 AM
based on the claims that her relative warned the school Phoebe was prone to be bullied I imagine she did have issues with being bullied back in Ireland at some point of time.

What Phoebe's Aunt actually said to the school was something along the lines of:

"With Phoebe being a new girl in school and coming from a much smaller school I am concerned that she may be susceptible to bullying"

and asked that the faculty pay special mind to "watching out" for Phoebe.

Which of course they proceeded immediately to not do.

O'Brien tried to get some mileage out of this "susceptible" deal because he is a word man and susceptible is a really "fun" word for a word man....Darby was unable to resist "just a little" embellishing which is what ad men do and Darby is an ad man through and through. Quite a good one really but pre-trial statements to the press are a whole different ballgame than marketing deodorant and canned vegetables.

If you've paid attention, you've noticed now a change in Darby, one that was "suggested" (to make the most massive understatement in the history of recorded speech) by Rebecca Bouchard who is sharp as they come and the Prince Family Lawyer.

Rebecca, when she became aware of Darby's statement (this and 2 others around the same time) actually DROVE (It is said anywa, by some) to South Hadley from Springfield with the specific intention of throwing Darby into either Titus Pond or the pond at Holyoke College...whichever was most approximate to where she located Darby.

Some say she was already in South Hadley at that point, didn't drive from anywhere but point being.....

Darby is now much more careful of what he says and Phoebe's Aunt didn't say anything about previous bullying. This on good authority, Phoebe was not bullied in Ireland....the opposite actually, she was popular and very well liked.

Its almost universally acknowledged that Rebecca did not throw Darby in either lake which is unfortunate as that of course would have been intensely cool.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:41 AM
...I think we should also consider that Phoebe went to school in europe ..it is in fact a lot more liberal and noone would call you a "whore" or "promiscuous" for sleeping with 2 guys...
Or in Canada, in my experience.

The words meant nothing. You want to bet the ones hurling the words hadn't done the deed themselves? I'd bet they had. They we're envious of her appeal and so they attacked it, tried to make it into something dirty and shameful. This is not about Phoebe. This is about their actions. They broke the law. She didn't. IMO

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 01:44 AM
...I think we should also consider that Phoebe went to school in europe ..it is in fact a lot more liberal and noone would call you a "whore" or "promiscuous" for sleeping with 2 guys...


WOW! Great point.

I forget how sexually repressed "we" are here....just kinds get used to it ya know :(

very true what you say and Phoebe was "wise beyond her years" in some regards.

Trust that she would not be fond at all of being portrayed as a vulnerable girl able to be conned by boys into sex.

Phoebe said that she was not a fighter, would not know how to fight, but she did not say she didn't know how to handle horndog boys who she knew were just out to have sex with her then likely toss her aside....

which is why, in response to my own question...the answer is quite possibly that she shut Mulveyhill down.

I am not hugely confident in that answer however because most generally a DA does not charge without solid evidence though were there ever to be an "exception" to that "rule" it could certainly be a case like this wherein if you DON'T CHARGE a good portion of America and Ireland are gonna shout "off with her head!!"

jjenny
04-13-2010, 01:45 AM
It's not DA's job to charge someone without probable cause, just to please the public.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:52 AM
"Casinos curb bully bill progress
Pols zero in on gambling"

"Casino-crazed Beacon Hill lawmakers have shoved aside an anti-bullying bill sparked by Phoebe Prince’s tragic suicide so they can push through legal slots and roulette wheels for the Bay State - a brushoff that has advocates demanding a tough new law now"

That says alot about what's important to them...IMO
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100413casinos_curb_bully_bill_progress_pols_zero _in_on_gambling/srvc=home&position=also

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 02:04 AM
"Phoebe's promiscuous behavior"? Are you well? It's a stat rape charge. She was 14 and 15 and the time. I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more. I will say no more. I have places to go, people to see. I will be good, mods. ;)

I hope that both Sean and Austin are convicted and sent to jail. Last word in this matter is, yes, Phoebe was unable to consent because one cannot accomplish consent in MA while under the age of 16 so this was rape.

I didn't dispute that. Merely tried to give a heads up to all those who'd suffer disappointment if the canonization of Phoebe Prince doesn't come to pass.

And moreso than that advise "fervent supporters" of a change who think they've found the "GodSend" case to accomplish that to not place all their eggs in one basket.

And RFLMAO, I could not possibly care less whether you read my posts or not.

Pissed myself laughing at: "I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more"

now I go to change my pants but save this peed in pair to resume wearing before I read another of your posts.....so I don't soil yet another pair of drawers.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 02:19 AM
I hope that both Sean and Austin are convicted and sent to jail. Last word in this matter is, yes, Phoebe was unable to consent because one cannot accomplish consent in MA while under the age of 16 so this was rape.

I didn't dispute that. Merely tried to give a heads up to all those who'd suffer disappointment if the canonization of Phoebe Prince doesn't come to pass.

And moreso than that advise "fervent supporters" of a change who think they've found the "GodSend" case to accomplish that to not place all their eggs in one basket.

And RFLMAO, I could not possibly care less whether you read my posts or not.

Pissed myself laughing at: "I saw those 3 words and knew I wanted to read no more"

now I go to change my pants but save this peed in pair to resume wearing before I read another of your posts.....so I don't soil yet another pair of drawers.

Lol...you are funny. My position is, it's a trial not the National Enquirer. There will be a judge and I hope he doesn't let them trash the victim. And if he does, I hope the jury will be outraged, which they very well may be.

Till then...I'm not worried about Phoebe's character standing up in court. From everything I've read, they'll make her look like the Virgin Mary.

Sorry, if my comment was biting. I'm protective...;)

Paladine
04-13-2010, 02:26 AM
Dr. Phail. I think I might know you. "Kristian" mean anything to you, lately? I think we've chatted before. ;) At his "house"...now, if that means nothing to you...I'm wrong...

Good night...and welcome. :)

ETA: Now, I know it's you...:) Love your humor.

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 02:37 AM
The older three are being charged as adults, I think?? Anyone, feel free to pipe up. The younger 3, youthful offenders, on some charges...me and US law ;)...I try.
http://www.wggb.com/Global/story.asp?S=12280581
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0409/1224267974777.html

Just trying to get up to speed and read through this thread....lord only knows what I should do about that other thread......48 pages......more?!? :viking:

48(maybe +) pages is gonna take along time to read.....I wish there were a "cliff notes" version.

Anyway...just happened across the quoted post and felt the need to say that I believe Austin, Sean and Kayla are charged as Adults, Ashley, Sharon and Flanney as "youthful offenders"....I could be mistaken on that precise configuration but 3 are charged as adults. For which I am thankful. Initially I thought they charged them all as "youthful offenders".

'pologize if someone answered that already between that post and here

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 02:47 AM
my goodness! look at the pic...there's another door, I think. On the rear of the house...to the LEFT of the photo?...see that big dark door-like shape on the back of the house? Wonder if that's an entry, too...it's making sense, to me, I think...where her body MAY have been, anyways...

WOAH!!!!! I never noticed that, and had looked I thought very CLOSELY at that photo.

I think you solved this P!!!!!!!!

and I think I can't avoid concluding that I am not very observant.

That TOTALLY looks like a Stairwell. Its dark in there.

I feel very positively that you have solved this mystery.

I think this is where she was found because the OUTSIDE stairs would appear to lead just up to an enclosed porch area whereas this......?

I'd think would lead directly into the upper floor apt. so naturally one would use THIS to get in the apt.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 02:55 AM
WOAH!!!!! I never noticed that, and had looked I thought very CLOSELY at that photo.

I think you solved this P!!!!!!!!

and I think I can't avoid concluding that I am not very observant.

That TOTALLY looks like a Stairwell. Its dark in there.

I feel very positively that you have solved this mystery.

I think this is where she was found because the OUTSIDE stairs would appear to lead just up to an enclosed porch area whereas this......?

I'd think would lead directly into the upper floor apt. so naturally one would use THIS to get in the apt.
Good to have you be the one to celebrate this with me! Lol...seems others don't appreciate the stairwell mystery as much as you and I! I felt the same way as you reacted when I posted...and then no one responded. :(

Might be a stairwell, looks promising, to me...and entry to that door seems isolated. Not within view of many.

Night...now, I AM leaving...:)

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 04:21 AM
Opinion piece dated today (4/12/10) in which the author claims that the bullying in this case and others is not a crime..
http://www.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?z=12&a=447192
For example:
I wonder if this person read the charge sheet we've seen for the three younger ones.

Thats a good article, realistic.

I fail to see what it is about the charge sheet that seems so "grave", I found it to be quite the opposite (precisely what one might expect a rection fro teenage girl to be to such a situation) and unless I see something far worse in the docs on the other 3, for example: altering images of Phoebe via Image editing software to create very sexually graphic images of Phoebe and then posting those online and/or some physical assaults....

much like this article alludes to, I would not anticipate a successful prosecution here...even, after reading this article, on the rape charges and I expected those to have the best chance of resulting in punishment.

In no way am I defending these kid's actions and/or trying to cast blame on Phoebe. I am just saying that I did not find the charge sheet to be as damning as you and others seem to have found it.


This, from the article is key IMO: "The bullying, Scheibel said, "far exceeded the limits of normal teenage relationship-related quarrels."

How does she know and do we routinely want prosecutors making these calls? Slate's Emily Bazelon reported that among South Hadley students, "the prevailing sentiment was that, yes, Phoebe had been mistreated but not in some unprecedented way. 'A lot of it was normal girl drama,' one girl told me. 'If you want to label it bullying, then I've bullied girls and girls have bullied me. ... It was one of the worst things I've heard of some girls doing to another girl. But it wouldn't have hurt most people that much.'"


I have no great and special insight to why Phoebe did what she did, I've only stated what seems the most reasonable explanation....to me.

I wish that she hadn't taken her life because, as someone else mentioned on the Boston Herald website: whatever it was would have proved to be just a blip on the landscape of her life.

She'd be back home in Ireland right now (they had planned all along to return in springtime) and she was 14 for chrissakes....early 15 at best....

wtf she is supposed to know everything about living, make no errors, be perfect and make no mistakes.

and its far from established that she even DID make mistakes.....

Its said that bullying from Kayla and Ashley began almost immediately, in Sept. when Phoebe got positive attention from teachers for turning her homework in on time and participating in class...(naturally, this as unacceptable to Kayla and Ashley)

Maybe Sean extorts Phoebe with "If I do YOU a favor and stop the bullying...will you do ME a favor...... ;) ????"

I mean the girl was HOT, exceptional body for her age and that accent????

easy to see how his "judgment " might have gotten eclipsed by lust....

but still, no one is grasping the importance of "why did Sean become angry enough with Phoebe to participate in the bullying"

which is why one of ya'll need to go infiltrate the "Support Seam Mulveyhill" facebook group, they'd know what the deal was on that.

Infiltrate it....such as has been done before wherein undercover agent posed as biker to get into Hell's Angels.

But, like, 453288564 times less dangerous. :truce:

Dr. Phail
04-13-2010, 04:48 AM
ETA

What the frick does ETA mean?!? :)

Google thinks it means "Estimated Time of Arrival" which all I gotta say to damn illiterate-ass GOOGLE is that would be "EToA" as there is a "o word" in there.

And as to your suspicion. I should neither confirm nor deny. Thats what I should do but it'd prolly be pointless to do that.

You seem to have fairly well honed web sleuthing skills......

theres a forum thats about that, you'd prolly like it.

hold on I'll find a link.....

MaureenN
04-13-2010, 09:17 AM
ETA = 'Edited to Add' in some cases

I'm wondering if you have any indication that any of this was out of character at all for Mulveyhill. Do you have any links to info showing, conclusively, what he was like before this?

Because, even the 'before' boy in your scenarios doesn't sound like someone who I'd be proud for my son to be when he gets older. Your 'before' boy either took advantage of a girl who was being bullied, in order to get sex with her. Or, he entered into a consensual relationship with a girl and then, when she chose not to have sex with him any longer, he didn't respectfully walk away, but, instead, engaged in a campaign of harassment against her.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 09:44 AM
What the frick does ETA mean?!? :)

Google thinks it means "Estimated Time of Arrival" which all I gotta say to damn illiterate-ass GOOGLE is that would be "EToA" as there is a "o word" in there.

And as to your suspicion. I should neither confirm nor deny. Thats what I should do but it'd prolly be pointless to do that.

You seem to have fairly well honed web sleuthing skills......

theres a forum thats about that, you'd prolly like it.

hold on I'll find a link.....

Hey, Bud...:) Where's my link? ;) I like your posts. They are full of personality. Thanks for the kind words. You need not confirm or deny, it's all good. :)

Paladine
04-13-2010, 09:56 AM
Dr. Phail...a friendly word of advice...add a BIG IMO (in my opinion) to your posts that aren't capable of being proved factual, at this point.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 10:04 AM
Irish Central covers Khloe Kardashians remarks about bullying...the 1st comment is interesting, from a purported South Hadley resident.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Khloe-Kardashian-lashes-pout-at-Phoebe-Prince-bullies-90624944.html

Paladine
04-13-2010, 10:13 AM
School officials slammed in bullying case
Tuesday, April 13, 2010
By SANDRA E. CONSTANTINE
Among the allegations is that the 15-year-old Prince went to an administrator before her Jan. 14 suicide by hanging and asked permission to go home because she was afraid of being beat up by bullies.

That and other details in the complaint describing bullying in the classroom, in the hallways, in the cafeteria, in the school library and on the way home have stoked the fires of Gelinas and other School Department critics calling for resignations.

Despite Prince's concerns, the complaint filed by Scheibel Thursday states, she was told her she had to stay in school.

"It is typical of what was happening," Gelinas said. "The truth is just going to keep coming out."
http://www.masslive.com/springfield/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-27/127114661141640.xml&coll=1

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 10:22 AM
Even if that did happen, the laugh could be a defense mechanism and not a sign he was happy about it. Some people laugh when they are not happy, or something went wrong. I don't know why people assume that if someone was laughing he was happy about it, maybe just the opposite.

My husband uses it as a defense mechanism, he will smile and even laugh if confronted. It's how I know when he's nervous about something.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 10:27 AM
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"

"In recent months, two high school girls were relentlessly harassed as "sl*ts" by their peers in school and committed suicide as a result -- Hope Witsell in rural Florida and now Phoebe Prince in South Hadley, Massachusetts. The Prince case has led to criminal charges and tremendous international media attention."
" Yet at the same time, I am curious to know: why has Prince's death elicited a far stronger reaction than Witsell's? Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick has even stepped in, berating school officials for not protecting Prince. Meanwhile, to date no one has so strongly pointed a finger at school administrators at Witsell's school, nor have there been criminal charges brought in her case.

This doesn't make sense. Both girls were victimized similarly. Both deaths are tragic. Both girls deserve the same outcry of anger and horror. Why does Prince's suicide resonate so much more than Witsell's?"

I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-sluts-two-d_b_533425.html

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 10:42 AM
I think I missed your post about the possible other set of stairs. I'm looking at that photo again to see if I'm seeing what you are seeing.

Cyan
04-13-2010, 10:48 AM
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-sluts-two-d_b_533425.html

I read a little bit about this the other day.. and I tend to agree with that author... I can't say that I'd heard about this until the last week or so.

*sigh*

These poor girls. :(
Why are some people just so intent on making others miserable? :(

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 10:49 AM
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-sluts-two-d_b_533425.html

I think it's just like how people view animal cruelty. Animals don't understand why you are beating them to dog fight or whatever happens. I'm using dogs as an example. Phoebe wasn't from this country so her first impression was this. That all Americans are this way. I say this because at 30 I have no idea what it's like in Ireland. But I'm older and wiser and think if I were to move there and was bullied like this that no all people are like that. Imagine being very loved in your country by everyone and having different cultural background and coming here to this.

As for Hope Witsell I'm not sure. Even like the Alexis girl I posted a few pages back. I don't know why some people get more press than others. But in this case my gut says because she was from Ireland.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 11:17 AM
I think it's just like how people view animal cruelty. Animals don't understand why you are beating them to dog fight or whatever happens. I'm using dogs as an example. Phoebe wasn't from this country so her first impression was this. That all Americans are this way. I say this because at 30 I have no idea what it's like in Ireland. But I'm older and wiser and think if I were to move there and was bullied like this that no all people are like that. Imagine being very loved in your country by everyone and having different cultural background and coming here to this.

As for Hope Witsell I'm not sure. Even like the Alexis girl I posted a few pages back. I don't know why some people get more press than others. But in this case my gut says because she was from Ireland.

Yes. I can only speak for myself, her heritage, I must admit, drew me in. There are many Irish in America and Canada...I think it touched many of us in the gut. And the slurs against her ancestry...it reminded me of the prejudice felt by the Irish many decades ago. THAT made my blood boil...

But I will spend time reading some background on Alexis and Hope...wish there were more hours in a day. ;)

thebear14
04-13-2010, 11:25 AM
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-sluts-two-d_b_533425.html


great article. I especially like this quote As we watch the criminal case against Prince's harassers unfold, let us remember that no girl, ever, no matter what she has done sexually, no matter what photos she has stupidly forwarded, deserves to be called a "slut." Ever. .

I don't really care if Phoebe had "sexted", sent naked pictures of herself, or slept with the entire football team. These kids went entirely way too far. Some girls, whether they have or haven't done anything sexually, will be called sluts and there will be rumors and whatnot about them. That totally sucks and I don't agree with it, but it happens. What these girls did went way beyond a little name-calling behind the back (which again, don't agree with and shouldn't be condoned). It was a full on systematic onslaught against her. As Paladine mentioned a few threads back, sexual shaming. No matter what Phoebe did or didn't do, that doesn't matter. There was no reason for the harassment against her, and she should have been protected.

As to why Phoebe's case is getting more attention - I don't really know. It stands out more because she was from Ireland, of course. I think also the fact that charges are being brought. I remember hearing about this case when it first came out in late January or early February then it died down a bit. I wasn't following the case at the time so as an average person not overly interested in the case, it died down. Once the charges were brought it heated up, and that's when I began following it more intensely. I think also the fact that many are blaming the school for not handling the situation better is another reason why this case is more popular. Unfortunately, since the other girl sent a naked picture of herself, she's going to be looked down on more and there's going to be more of a "she brought in on herself" thing, as the article states. Again, don't agree with that position at all. It's an unfortunate, beyond humiliating thing to happen to a 13 year old girl and sadly it's going to become more common. It's easy to say that oh, I would never do that at 13 years old, but in reality you don't know. Whether she felt pressured to do it the first time or whether she wanted to I don't know but it's just sad either way.

Kids this age are very sexually curious, everything turns into sex. Every joke, every picture, every conversation. Some act on it and some don't. Those who do shouldn't be subject to harassment so severe they feel there's no way out of it and they cut their lives short - it's just very tragic.

JMO! ;)

thebear14
04-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Yes. I can only speak for myself, her heritage, I must admit, drew me in. There are many Irish in America and Canada...I think it touched many of us in the gut. And the slurs against her ancestry...it reminded me of the prejudice felt by the Irish many decades ago. THAT made my blood boil...

But I will spend time reading some background on Alexis and Hope...wish there were more hours in a day. ;)

yes. I'm Italian and Irish. I identify more with the Italian side of my family but still...it baffles my mind. I remember in high school when we would have foreign exchange students, I loved it! I always befriended them, always wanted to know more about their culture. When other kids would call them weird or talk behind their backs I always stood up for them. I would be their partners in gym class and sit next to them in other classes. If Phoebe had been in my class, I'm positive I would have befriended her. I was definitely not a popular kid either so I had no reason to worry about my reputation or getting kicked out of the cool lunch table or whatever ;) She just really sounds like someone I would have wanted to get to know to know at that age.

The fact that they made slurs against where she was from is so ridiculous, especially when you consider their last names. duh. :waitasec:

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 11:38 AM
:woohoo:Thats a good article, realistic.

I fail to see what it is about the charge sheet that seems so "grave", I found it to be quite the opposite (precisely what one might expect a rection fro teenage girl to be to such a situation) and unless I see something far worse in the docs on the other 3, for example: altering images of Phoebe via Image editing software to create very sexually graphic images of Phoebe and then posting those online and/or some physical assaults....

much like this article alludes to, I would not anticipate a successful prosecution here...even, after reading this article, on the rape charges and I expected those to have the best chance of resulting in punishment.

In no way am I defending these kid's actions and/or trying to cast blame on Phoebe. I am just saying that I did not find the charge sheet to be as damning as you and others seem to have found it.


This, from the article is key IMO: "The bullying, Scheibel said, "far exceeded the limits of normal teenage relationship-related quarrels."

How does she know and do we routinely want prosecutors making these calls? Slate's Emily Bazelon reported that among South Hadley students, "the prevailing sentiment was that, yes, Phoebe had been mistreated but not in some unprecedented way. 'A lot of it was normal girl drama,' one girl told me. 'If you want to label it bullying, then I've bullied girls and girls have bullied me. ... It was one of the worst things I've heard of some girls doing to another girl. But it wouldn't have hurt most people that much.'"


I have no great and special insight to why Phoebe did what she did, I've only stated what seems the most reasonable explanation....to me.

I wish that she hadn't taken her life because, as someone else mentioned on the Boston Herald website: whatever it was would have proved to be just a blip on the landscape of her life.

She'd be back home in Ireland right now (they had planned all along to return in springtime) and she was 14 for chrissakes....early 15 at best....

wtf she is supposed to know everything about living, make no errors, be perfect and make no mistakes.

and its far from established that she even DID make mistakes.....

Its said that bullying from Kayla and Ashley began almost immediately, in Sept. when Phoebe got positive attention from teachers for turning her homework in on time and participating in class...(naturally, this as unacceptable to Kayla and Ashley)

Maybe Sean extorts Phoebe with "If I do YOU a favor and stop the bullying...will you do ME a favor...... ;) ????"

I mean the girl was HOT, exceptional body for her age and that accent????

easy to see how his "judgment " might have gotten eclipsed by lust....

but still, no one is grasping the importance of "why did Sean become angry enough with Phoebe to participate in the bullying"

which is why one of ya'll need to go infiltrate the "Support Seam Mulveyhill" facebook group, they'd know what the deal was on that.

Infiltrate it....such as has been done before wherein undercover agent posed as biker to get into Hell's Angels.

But, like, 453288564 times less dangerous. :truce:

Already in the Support Sean Mulveyhill fb page..it's boring. Nothing but a bunch of we love and support you and maybe like 30 posts. Nothing sheds light on anything. Sean doesn't post there and no one is talking about it. Just keep saying things aren't what they seem.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 11:48 AM
There are so many Narey families in MA. Springfield especially. One of the SM supporters has a few on FB as friends.

daisy7
04-13-2010, 11:49 AM
Yes. I can only speak for myself, her heritage, I must admit, drew me in. There are many Irish in America and Canada...I think it touched many of us in the gut. And the slurs against her ancestry...it reminded me of the prejudice felt by the Irish many decades ago. THAT made my blood boil...

But I will spend time reading some background on Alexis and Hope...wish there were more hours in a day. ;)

Please start threads on them if you can. Remember, we have a whole bullying forum:)

AndyRyan
04-13-2010, 11:50 AM
"Two So-Called Sl*ts, Two Deaths, Only One Uproar"



I've never heard of Hope Witsell, thought I'd share in case anyone cares to look further into this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leora-tanenbaum/two-so-called-sluts-two-d_b_533425.html


I think that the reason Phoebe's case has received so much attention is a result of the disgusting comments made on her facebook memorial page after her death and the apparent lack of remorse by her tormentors at the Cotillion dance two days later. I would imagine that this shocked people who were then even more enraged by these kids hardness and cruelty. Also Darby O'Brien, who works in PR and advertising, got involved and obviously knew who to talk to i.e. Kevin Cullen who wrote some great articles on it. Maybe the schools handling of its investigation (by not expelling the students and what not) added fuel to the fire in the publics eyes.

stmarysmead
04-13-2010, 11:54 AM
Just a few observations about some of the opinions in Dr. Phail's posts.

As a "sleuth-er", I would of course, be interested in why Sean Mulveyhill decided to participate in bullying Phoebe. I'm also curious as to why Casey Anthony allegedly killed her child, why Timothy McVeigh blew up the that building in Oklahoma City. There might be some societal value in understanding the mindset that enables such cruelty...so hearing "excuses" has some larger value.

However, as a juror, I would have little interest in motivations. IMO, although many criminals do whatever feels right to them, hoping NOT to be held accountable...if it is not "right" in the laws of our society, that's the bottom line to me. They CHOOSE to do the crime, they then must do the TIME.

That's the deterrent of our criminal justice system. Sure, you can CHOOSE to make this girl's life a living Hell for months...but if your actions have consequences...YOU must "pay' them.

Likewise,it matters not to me if these people have other redeeming qualities. Most people do. That does not mitigate the side of your pysche that indulged this behavior toward another human being.

And, I am "impressed" with the charge sheet. Taken one by one, the few actions listed may not seem "impressive."...but this was a group effort, undertaken over a three month period. Single actions in a reign of terror may be singled out to appear trivial. But they did NOT occur...in singularity. They occurred as part of a monstrous WHOLE. All the participant's in Phoebe's mental torture knew THEIR efforts would be compounded by the efforts of others...their cruelty amplified by help from their friends.

So they must pay for the totality of the effort they engaged in. I might say I only swung the bat once into a victim...but if I'm swinging that bat with others armed with bats, with similar intentions...I OWN the totality of the "kill."

My opinion only, of course.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 11:55 AM
There are so many Narey families in MA. Springfield especially. One of the SM supporters has a few on FB as friends.
I noticed that, too. Many Nareys. A family name that appears rooted in the area, to me.

Remember though, we have the obit, the Dad, Ray Narey, died. Did the Mom remarry? Or is she using her maiden name?

Paladine
04-13-2010, 11:59 AM
Just a few observations about some of the opinions in Dr. Phail's posts.

As a "sleuth-er", I would of course, be interested in why Sean Mulveyhill decided to participate in bullying Phoebe. I'm also curious as to why Casey Anthony allegedly killed her child, why Timothy McVeigh blew up the that building in Oklahoma City. There might be some societal value in understanding the mindset that enables such cruelty...so hearing "excuses" has some larger value.

However, as a juror, I would have little interest in motivations. IMO, although many criminals do whatever feels right to them, hoping NOT to be held accountable...if it is not "right" in the laws of our society, that's the bottom line to me. They CHOOSE to do the crime, they then must do the TIME.

That's the deterrent of our criminal justice system. Sure, you can CHOOSE to make this girl's life a living Hell for months...but if your actions have consequences...YOU must "pay' them.

Likewise,it matters not to me if these people have other redeeming qualities. Most people do. That does not mitigate the side of your pysche that indulged this behavior toward another human being.

And, I am "impressed" with the charge sheet. Taken one by one, the few actions listed may not seem "impressive."...but this was a group effort, undertaken over a three month period. Single actions in a reign of terror may be singled out to appear trivial. But they did NOT occur...in singularity. They occurred as part of a monstrous WHOLE. All the participant's in Phoebe's mental torture knew THEIR efforts would be compounded by the efforts of others...their cruelty amplified by help from their friends.

So they must pay for the totality of the effort they engaged in. I might say I only swung the bat once into a victim...but if I'm swinging that bat with others armed with bats, with similar intentions...I OWN the totality of the "kill."

My opinion only, of course.
Worthy of bolding, imo. I agree. It was a conspiracy to break her, imo.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:01 PM
I think that the reason Phoebe's case has received so much attention is a result of the disgusting comments made on her facebook memorial page after her death and the apparent lack of remorse by her tormentors at the Cotillion dance two days later. I would imagine that this shocked people who were then even more enraged by these kids hardness and cruelty. Also Darby O'Brien, who works in PR and advertising, got involved and obviously knew who to talk to i.e. Kevin Cullen who wrote some great articles on it. Maybe the schools handling of its investigation (by not expelling the students and what not) added fuel to the fire in the publics eyes.
Perfectly wrapped up. It's true. It's like all the stars in heaven finally lined up for poor Phoebe. Too bad all that help wasn't there when there was a chance to save her.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:03 PM
hmmm seems according to one of Sean's supporters on his group who I think is underage so I won't say her name publicly, "everyone at SHHS is hoping for the best with sean, it deffinetly has not been the same with out him! :("

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:04 PM
hmmm seems according to one of Sean's supporters on his group who I think is underage so I won't say her name publicly, "everyone at SHHS is hoping for the best with sean, it deffinetly has not been the same with out him! :("
It reminds me of that hostage syndrome...what's it called, again? Patty Hearst reportedly had it...

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:06 PM
I noticed that, too. Many Nareys. A family name that appears rooted in the area, to me.

Remember though, we have the obit, the Dad, Ray Narey, died. Did the Mom remarry? Or is she using her maiden name?

And a bunch of Sullivans too.

I don't know if the mom remarried but can she legally use her maiden name? I know on FB she probably could.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:08 PM
One of her I'm hoping real friends on this page is talking about how much she misses her..real friend?

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=2361831622#!/group.php?gid=258524962326
Initials MM

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:09 PM
Not sure about using the maiden name. Anybody know what MA law might be about that?

AndyRyan
04-13-2010, 12:12 PM
One of her I'm hoping real friends on this page is talking about how much she misses her..real friend?

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=2361831622#!/group.php?gid=258524962326
Initials MM

I also see D.P, someone posted (I think on this site) that there was a threat to her if she danced with DP's boyfriend at cotillion.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:15 PM
One of her I'm hoping real friends on this page is talking about how much she misses her..real friend?

http://www.facebook.com/?sk=2361831622#!/group.php?gid=258524962326
Initials MM
It's a closed group, now. Can't see the page, need to request to join. Did you join when it was open? Can you see the comments?

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:19 PM
It's a closed group, now. Can't see the page, need to request to join. Did you join when it was open? Can you see the comments?

I must have joined when it was open cause I can see it.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:24 PM
Phoebe Prince's body was found hanging in the stairway leading to her family's second-floor apartment in South Hadley, Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth D. Scheibel told reporters Monday in the western Massachusetts town of Northampton.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/massachusetts.bullying.suicide/index.html

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:37 PM
Phoebe smoked

i always look up to the window that looked into her living room and i just always remember sitting there listening to techno with her and watching south park and she went to light her "fag" with the toaster bc she didn't have a lighter, it was so good. a week ago maybe i saw people up there moving things and i pulled over and made my mom drive bc i was gunna cry and i don't think i could handle all of that at once. i just hate never seeing her♥

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=258524962326#! closed group?

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:39 PM
WHOA! Someone was friends with the person who lived below her!

Chris Lukasik: I never knew her and honestly, I never heard anyone talk bad about her. But that's because when I'm in the hallways I kinda am in my own world and I don't pay attention to what people say in the hallways. But I have never met her or seen her. I knew her as the upstairs neighbor to my best friend. But I never knew people disliked her so much.
Phoebe is looking down on us now in Heaven and she forgives us, everyone that hurt her, everyone that did know what was going on, everyone that didn't know, she's safe now and she forgives us.

stmarysmead
04-13-2010, 12:42 PM
Thank you WaddupYo...for all this info you are finding for us! Much appreciated!

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:43 PM
This Katie Broderick is on the FB page talking about how much she misses her. But this was back in February, the 25th to be exact. I've only read her 2 comments on here so far. Is this the same KB that I've read that harassed her too?

adnoid
04-13-2010, 12:44 PM
...
Phoebe is looking down on us now in Heaven and she forgives us, everyone that hurt her, everyone that did know what was going on, everyone that didn't know, she's safe now and she forgives us.

I don't.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:45 PM
Thank you WaddupYo...for all this info you are finding for us! Much appreciated!

I'm consumed with this story. I have to know that these kids will be punished. I also find out a lot of information going back to January stories. People were commenting a lot back then.

Laurence
04-13-2010, 12:45 PM
This Katie Broderick is on the FB page talking about how much she misses her. But this was back in February, the 25th to be exact. I've only read her 2 comments on here so far. Is this the same KB that I've read that harassed her too?

Pretty sure it is.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 12:47 PM
Phoebe smoked

i always look up to the window that looked into her living room and i just always remember sitting there listening to techno with her and watching south park and she went to light her "fag" with the toaster bc she didn't have a lighter, it was so good. a week ago maybe i saw people up there moving things and i pulled over and made my mom drive bc i was gunna cry and i don't think i could handle all of that at once. i just hate never seeing her♥

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=258524962326#! closed group?
You know what? Sadly, I started smoking at 12 years of age. I was always feeling too much. As a child, I turned to substances to ease the feelings. Always looking for something outside myself to bring me peace. Thank God, now I know better, peace comes from inside out, not from outside in...imo.

I was fearful when all of my kids went through puberty, that they would have a surge of emotion that they'd try to suppress. Luckily, *knocking on wood*, it's been all good. It just wouldn't surprise me if she smoked...

Laurence
04-13-2010, 12:47 PM
Phoebe smoked

i always look up to the window that looked into her living room and i just always remember sitting there listening to techno with her and watching south park and she went to light her "fag" with the toaster bc she didn't have a lighter, it was so good. a week ago maybe i saw people up there moving things and i pulled over and made my mom drive bc i was gunna cry and i don't think i could handle all of that at once. i just hate never seeing her♥

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=258524962326#! closed group?

That person has posted previously about watching South Park with her and Phoebe using the toaster as a lighter.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 12:53 PM
That person has posted previously about watching South Park with her and Phoebe using the toaster as a lighter.

YES! I was reading old posts and got to Feb 25th when my stupid computer kicked me out and won't let me load older posts on FB. So that KB comment on Feb 25 is the furthest I've read.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:04 PM
I just had a thought. The defense better be careful. They trash Phoebe and make her seem like a messed in the head, 14 year old Teen, Mr. Mulveyhill may regret it. He's supposed to be the big guy, the 'got it all together guy' on campus...What's he doing having sex with someone who is so obviously messed in the head? THAT would convict him of stat rape, imo. His only hope, in the court of public opinion, might be to prove that Phoebe was a willing participant who made a reasonable choice to be with him. If they portray her as a troubled teen...Mulveyhill looks EVEN worse, imo.

concentric
04-13-2010, 01:42 PM
I'm sure you all have discussed this, but I want to know: Phoebe wasn't a U.S. citizen, is that correct? I want to know how it impacts the outcome of this case.

My feeling is that the bullies also took this into account when targeting her. Perhaps they felt she was defenseless due to this.

thebear14
04-13-2010, 01:44 PM
This Katie Broderick is on the FB page talking about how much she misses her. But this was back in February, the 25th to be exact. I've only read her 2 comments on here so far. Is this the same KB that I've read that harassed her too?


yep it is. apparently kb called phoebe an irish whore and that she better stay away from some other girls boyfriend at the dance. I never saw the comment myself but even some of phoebe's other "friends" have admitted that it happened.

concentric
04-13-2010, 01:50 PM
My opinion is that "bullying" is in violation of U.S. law. Why does it continue unchecked?

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:54 PM
I'm sure you all have discussed this, but I want to know this: Phoebe wasn't a U.S. citizen, is that correct? I want to know how this impacts the outcome of this case.

My feeling is that the bullies also took this into account when targeting her. Perhaps they felt she was defenseless due to this.
I'm not sure of Phoebe's citizen status, concentric. Good question.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 01:56 PM
yep it is. apparently kb called phoebe an irish whore and that she better stay away from some other girls boyfriend at the dance. I never saw the comment myself but even some of phoebe's other "friends" have admitted that it happened.

I'd like to grab that little snot nose punk by her nostrils....oh I'm so mad

Paladine
04-13-2010, 01:58 PM
yep it is. apparently kb called phoebe an irish wh*re and that she better stay away from some other girls boyfriend at the dance. I never saw the comment myself but even some of phoebe's other "friends" have admitted that it happened.
Here's a link about K. Broderick....
Got some nasty and some unfriendly comments but I’ve found where a girl at South Hadley High School admits to being the girl who called Phoebe Prince an “irish whore” on an online website. She admits it online!!! Incredible.

Read it quick because I am sure the website will soon disappear. As predicted, the itssskatieeex site has disappeared. Not to worry as I will find some others that are just as bad. But those will not be from a girl who got so bad on Phoebe Prince.

h/t to the bloggers at the masslive site for pointing this out but the girl was interviewed on ABC right after Phoebe Prince’s death!! Unfreakingbelievable!!! So, here’s the question: is K. Broderick still a student at South Hadley High School? If she is, then we all know that Gus Sayer and Daniel Smith are real pieces of lying *****.

edited to remove first name and profanity...
http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/the-girl-who-called-phoebe-prince-an-irish-whore/

thebear14
04-13-2010, 02:09 PM
I'd like to grab that little snot nose punk by her nostrils....oh I'm so mad

yeah pretty much. not sure if you saw it but several threads ago I posted a message I had received from someone on facebook who I had questioned about the lack of recent pictures of Phoebe. This person mentioned that a lesser known theory about why exactly Phoebe felt so alone in her last few days is that many of the people she thought were her friends ended up backstabbing her. :\ I've also recently read comments that another one of her friends and her got into an argument in the days before her death. instead of ever getting better it feels like my heart breaks more and more everyday for this girl. :(

Paladine
04-13-2010, 02:36 PM
"Phoebe Prince school union says media is real villain"

O'Neil says it's all the media's fault. He blames the media’s “nasty tone” for the war of words which broke out over the bullying and counter-threats to the accused bullies.

Oh give us a break Bill.

There would be no story here if Phoebe Prince hadn't been bullied to death.

As Darby O'Brien says, there has been an alarming lack of urgency in the school's response to Phoebe's tragic death.

Why hasn't the school committee held emergency meetings over the D.A.'s findings that teh bullying was common knowledge?

“Why hasn’t anyone done that," stormed O'Brien. Are they clueless?”
http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/people_and_politics/phoebe-prince-school-union-says-media-is-real-villain-90743324.html

Paladine
04-13-2010, 02:49 PM
yeah pretty much. not sure if you saw it but several threads ago I posted a message I had received from someone on facebook who I had questioned about the lack of recent pictures of Phoebe. This person mentioned that a lesser known theory about why exactly Phoebe felt so alone in her last few days is that many of the people she thought were her friends ended up backstabbing her. :\ I've also recently read comments that another one of her friends and her got into an argument in the days before her death. instead of ever getting better it feels like my heart breaks more and more everyday for this girl. :(
I read an interesting comment, I wish I remembered where, I'd like to credit the author. The poster, remembering Phoebe had her phone plugged in, mentioned the recent texts and wondered if there was 1 that pushed her over the edge. 1 that went somewhere different, maybe further somehow, and pushed her to the final act. Those texts will be interesting.

thebear14
04-13-2010, 03:01 PM
I read an interesting comment, I wish I remembered where, I'd like to credit the author. The poster, remembering Phoebe had her phone plugged in, mentioned the recent texts and wondered if there was 1 that pushed her over the edge. 1 that went somewhere different, maybe further somehow, and pushed her to the final act. Those texts will be interesting.

yeah I agree, that could be what happened. I always assumed she just went straight home and killed herself after the day. But then when I found out she was texting...I thought that's weird...she came home and was texting about her bad day then she decided she gave up? I mean we don't know for sure she was texting at home but given the times that's what it seems like.

Also I saw what you mentioned on one of the discussion boards on facebook about what happened between her plugging her phone in and having a future to not having one at all? Sorry I probably butchered your words there but it made sense to me. It could be she got one final text that sent her over.

ugh what I would give to go back in time and give Phoebe a second chance...you have no idea.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:09 PM
I read an interesting comment, I wish I remembered where, I'd like to credit the author. The poster, remembering Phoebe had her phone plugged in, mentioned the recent texts and wondered if there was 1 that pushed her over the edge. 1 that went somewhere different, maybe further somehow, and pushed her to the final act. Those texts will be interesting.

What type of phone does she have? The texts weren't read. At least I think that's what I've read. 2 unopened texts. I have an iphone and I know that I can read the messages I get if it's only a sentence long. I don't have to open to read the entire thing.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 03:12 PM
Read "aceishere" posts. He/she is completely over the top, imo. IMO, the school seems to have a plan to divert media attention by claiming it's bringing out the nuts. "Let us get on with teaching", is their cover. Yeah? Well, buddy, we've seen the results of THAT spelled out by the DA! Their hope is, imo...the media will back up for fear their coverage spurs an incident. I remember, a good defense is a great offense. What then, might a defense team do? Hmmm....how 'bout to infiltrate the boards oneself and post the most obnoxious comments that anyone with a brain would be against? Then get some local reporters to report on the "hate" that's out there and scream to be left alone...gotta say, kudos to masslive posters, they are not buying into it.

and a couple interesting posts of gossip...#9843 #9842

http://www.masslive.com/forums/southhadley/

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:15 PM
I read an interesting comment, I wish I remembered where, I'd like to credit the author. The poster, remembering Phoebe had her phone plugged in, mentioned the recent texts and wondered if there was 1 that pushed her over the edge. 1 that went somewhere different, maybe further somehow, and pushed her to the final act. Those texts will be interesting.

What type of phone does she have? The texts weren't read. At least I think that's what I've read. 2 unopened texts. I have an iphone and I know that I can read the messages I get if it's only a sentence long. I don't have to open to read the entire thing.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:16 PM
Gone

Phoebe's brother? :(

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:18 PM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=129429&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=258524962326&aid=-1&id=100000438513932
:(

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:20 PM
HOW THE FU#K are there people on both the support Sean and Phoebe memorial pages? HOW? Sorry but I'd have to choose sides. There's this little Sullivan kid on both and on the Sean one, very recent she's supporting Sean. I don't see any recent support on the Phoebe one.

thebear14
04-13-2010, 03:29 PM
Phoebe's brother? :(

yes, I believe that's him

thebear14
04-13-2010, 03:30 PM
HOW THE FU#K are there people on both the support Sean and Phoebe memorial pages? HOW? Sorry but I'd have to choose sides. There's this little Sullivan kid on both and on the Sean one, very recent she's supporting Sean. I don't see any recent support on the Phoebe one.

yeah I know. she's good friends with sean, has always stood up for him - especially when people were asking about him on her formspring which she ended up deleting. don't get it at all.

also, can't see the picture you posted as I'm not part of that group. guess I might join later

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:32 PM
yeah I know. she's good friends with sean, has always stood up for him - especially when people were asking about him on her formspring which she ended up deleting. don't get it at all.

also, can't see the picture you posted as I'm not part of that group. guess I might join later

I hate bandwagon people. Hate them. there's about 3 or 4 on this Phoebe memorial page that disgust me.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:43 PM
Everyone seen Flannery's myspace??

Not linking the page but read the comments..nuts

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/the-6-indicted-bullies-are-to-be-arraigned-on-tuesday-april-6/#comments

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 03:51 PM
yeah pretty much. not sure if you saw it but several threads ago I posted a message I had received from someone on facebook who I had questioned about the lack of recent pictures of Phoebe. This person mentioned that a lesser known theory about why exactly Phoebe felt so alone in her last few days is that many of the people she thought were her friends ended up backstabbing her. :\ I've also recently read comments that another one of her friends and her got into an argument in the days before her death. instead of ever getting better it feels like my heart breaks more and more everyday for this girl. :(

I've read a lot of her friends regret not sticking up for her or looking out for her and they are sad now because of it.

AndyRyan
04-13-2010, 03:55 PM
Phoebe's brother? :(
Sssssssshh

Paladine
04-13-2010, 03:56 PM
Everyone seen Flannery's myspace??

Not linking the page but read the comments..nuts

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/the-6-indicted-bullies-are-to-be-arraigned-on-tuesday-april-6/#comments
There's a myspace comment, posted Sept/09 from someone mentioning Flannery and Austins 1 yr anniversary was coming up, shortly...

AndyRyan
04-13-2010, 03:59 PM
http://images.clarepeople.com/viewpicture.tlx?pubgsearchid=1242245938&pictureid=2429108

An old newspaper article in Ireland, just for interest

thebear14
04-13-2010, 04:09 PM
http://images.clarepeople.com/viewpicture.tlx?pubgsearchid=1242245938&pictureid=2429108

An old newspaper article in Ireland, just for interest

great find. thank you.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 05:02 PM
Everyone seen Flannery's myspace??

Not linking the page but read the comments..nuts

http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/the-6-indicted-bullies-are-to-be-arraigned-on-tuesday-april-6/#comments

I think this photo is Flannery and Austin. Read the comments on the main page...they mention the 1 yr anniversary with "austin" coming up...

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=169913972&albumID=449830&imageID=32354741

And on this profile photo, comments from a poster says how cute they are together..."flan and austy"

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=169913972&albumID=449830&imageID=32354741

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 05:07 PM
I think this photo is Flannery and Austin. Read the comments on the main page...they mention the 1 yr anniversary with "austin" coming up...

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=169913972&albumID=449830&imageID=32354741

And on this profile photo, comments from a poster says how cute they are together..."flan and austy"

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=169913972&albumID=449830&imageID=32354741

hideous

Laurence
04-13-2010, 05:14 PM
Read "aceishere" posts. He/she is completely over the top, imo. IMO, the school seems to have a plan to divert media attention by claiming it's bringing out the nuts. "Let us get on with teaching", is their cover. Yeah? Well, buddy, we've seen the results of THAT spelled out by the DA! Their hope is, imo...the media will back up for fear their coverage spurs an incident. I remember, a good defense is a great offense. What then, might a defense team do? Hmmm....how 'bout to infiltrate the boards oneself and post the most obnoxious comments that anyone with a brain would be against? Then get some local reporters to report on the "hate" that's out there and scream to be left alone...gotta say, kudos to masslive posters, they are not buying into it.

and a couple interesting posts of gossip...#9843 #9842

http://www.masslive.com/forums/southhadley/

It's getting hard to find actual information in there. The primary posters are going after each other so much from both sides that even when somebody posts tidbits like that I don't trust them. Too much sniping.

Not really surprised, there have been accusations that some of the bully defenders may be friends/relatives/parents. True or not, that seemed to be the tipping point for that forum into chaos.

Laurence
04-13-2010, 05:16 PM
http://images.clarepeople.com/viewpicture.tlx?pubgsearchid=1242245938&pictureid=2429108

An old newspaper article in Ireland, just for interest

The look to be 2nd, 3rd grade? Great find on the picture, but sad as well.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 05:23 PM
It's getting hard to find actual information in there. The primary posters are going after each other so much from both sides that even when somebody posts tidbits like that I don't trust them. Too much sniping.

Not really surprised, there have been accusations that some of the bully defenders may be friends/relatives/parents. True or not, that seemed to be the tipping point for that forum into chaos.


I know that's true. They are watching, may be posting. I found Boisselle's Daughter's twitter. I posted the link somewhere on this forum. This thread or the 1st. She mentions reading the messages on message boards, masslive, I think. She mentions wanting to crush poster Concernfather2's "bits". :eek: She also mentions her Mother told her not to read the forums. It took me 45 mins to wind through her tweets back to January. I was looking for connections and info on Boisselle. The most interesting thing I found was her brother was picked up for drunk driving and her parents "bailed " him out. Now, bail as in 'money' or bail as in 'enabled, pulled strings'? I don't know.

IMO

BeenaBobba
04-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Phoebe's brother? :(

I think it's probably him, but maybe we shouldn't post the link. I know that none of us would bother him, but I would hate for people to harass him, know what I mean? I don't know; maybe I'm wrong.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 05:27 PM
Yes. Wonderful picture, Andy. And it looks like an such an idyllic day...

Paladine
04-13-2010, 05:30 PM
I think it's probably him, but maybe we shouldn't post the link. I know that none of us would bother him, but I would hate for people to harass him, know what I mean? I don't know; maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, waddup...thanks for sharing but maybe we shouldn't have it here...? It might get exploited. This family has suffered too much. But...good find, you are a great link hunter! :thumb:

Paladine
04-13-2010, 05:33 PM
concernedfather has something interesting post #9857 #9854
http://www.masslive.com/forums/southhadley/

AndyRyan
04-13-2010, 05:49 PM
concernedfather has something interesting post #9857 #9854
http://www.masslive.com/forums/southhadley/

Thanks for that I get a bit dizzy when I go over to masslive and some of them put me off with their petty *****ing.

"is that he felt no compunctions about saying Phoebe was "in counseling" but couldn't divulge what, if any, consequences were given to the South Hadley Six."

Yeah I like this one,what a hypocrite that man is.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 06:15 PM
yeah I agree, that could be what happened. I always assumed she just went straight home and killed herself after the day. But then when I found out she was texting...I thought that's weird...she came home and was texting about her bad day then she decided she gave up? I mean we don't know for sure she was texting at home but given the times that's what it seems like.

Also I saw what you mentioned on one of the discussion boards on facebook about what happened between her plugging her phone in and having a future to not having one at all? Sorry I probably butchered your words there but it made sense to me. It could be she got one final text that sent her over.

ugh what I would give to go back in time and give Phoebe a second chance...you have no idea.

Yes, that's first the message I picked up through skimming the press, she went home and died right away. Now, that I see some more in depth pieces, it's not so clear. Yes, her phone was plugged in. So, she cared about the future when she made the choice to plug it in. But what happened between then...and the stairwell? Why no note? The christmas scarf? It would have to be totally implusive for me to believe suicide. So, I find myself looking for the catalyst...the happening that propelled her. I'm still looking... IMO

Might be the texts.

BeenaBobba
04-13-2010, 06:16 PM
concernedfather has something interesting post #9857 #9854
http://www.masslive.com/forums/southhadley/

Very interesting indeed!

BeenaBobba
04-13-2010, 06:17 PM
Yes, that's first the message I picked up through skimming the press, she went home and died right away. Now, that I see some more in depth pieces, it's not so clear. Yes, her phone was plugged in. So she cared about the future when she made the choice to plug it in. But what happened between then...and the stairwell? Why no note? The christmas scarf? It would have to be totally implusive for me to believe suicide. So, I find myself looking for the catalyst...the happening that propelled her. I'm still looking... IMO

I agree. I think something may have happened that we haven't heard about yet, something that pushed her over the edge.

WaddupYo
04-13-2010, 06:23 PM
I removed the brother's fb link in my original posting of it

daisy7
04-13-2010, 06:27 PM
I removed the brother's fb link in my original posting of it

Thanks. I'll take it out from those that quoted your post.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 06:29 PM
"SHHS Students have college concerns" this is WWLP, again...

"They fear negative press will impact application"...

In other words...~~~~MEDIA?! Shut Up and Go Away!~~~~Love, Gus and Dan

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/s-hadley-students-have-college-concerns

MaureenN
04-13-2010, 06:37 PM
I agree. I think something may have happened that we haven't heard about yet, something that pushed her over the edge.

Not that I think, at all, that this would be a valid reason for killing herself (or a valid reason for anyone bullying her), but I wonder if anyone checked for a pregnancy...

thebear14
04-13-2010, 06:43 PM
Yes, that's first the message I picked up through skimming the press, she went home and died right away. Now, that I see some more in depth pieces, it's not so clear. Yes, her phone was plugged in. So, she cared about the future when she made the choice to plug it in. But what happened between then...and the stairwell? Why no note? The christmas scarf? It would have to be totally implusive for me to believe suicide. So, I find myself looking for the catalyst...the happening that propelled her. I'm still looking... IMO

Might be the texts.

yeah - I believe it was totally impulsive. However the fact that she came home, plugged in her phone, was apparently texting, used the scarf her sister gave her for xmas, and had to know that either her sister or her mom but most likely her little sister would find her...just doesn't add up. If she came straight home and was just in such a bad mental state that she did it I would understand better, but the fact that it seems she was home for a bit, even just 10 or 15 mins just seems strange. Plus she was talking with someone who must have been a friend as she was talking about what had happened that day. why even bother telling someone? idk - I also agree that something else may have happened to set it off. sorry if this is just a repeat of everything that's already been said ;)

daisy7
04-13-2010, 06:44 PM
Friendly reminder for everyone -- if you see a post that is not appropriate or violates TOS, PLEASE click the alert button (the little red triangle). And, please don't reply (quote) to any posts you think shouldn't be there. Thanks!

thebear14
04-13-2010, 06:45 PM
Not that I think, at all, that this would be a valid reason for killing herself (or a valid reason for anyone bullying her), but I wonder if anyone checked for a pregnancy...

that's kind of been in the back of my head, as well. :\ an autopsy was done...would they have been able to tell from that? or a test laying around...or the nurse visit earlier in the day. idk..so many questions and sadly it seems the more we know the sadder it becomes.

thebear14
04-13-2010, 07:11 PM
this is an old article, from January 16th, but it had some interesting parts. Some of the older articles are a good read just to see what people's reactions were immediately after it happened. Sorry if this was posted previously.

"Our school is so small so they all knew who she was, but she was new and she was trying to get to know people," Szybziak said. "All the girls who didn't like her, it was just because she talked to their boyfriends. I think girlfriends got jealous because they wanted the attention on them. She didn't do anything wrong, but they took it the wrong way."

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.gazettenet.com/files/images/20100115-200759-pic-938049466.display.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.gazettenet.com/2010/01/16/stunned-students-grieve-and-regret&usg=__LBwQ5wIEbCG1uAKjo59NUbKlIhc=&h=660&w=440&sz=75&hl=en&start=135&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=lsVkfE5SP7iCUM:&tbnh=138&tbnw=92&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphoebe%2Bprince%26start%3D120%26um%3D 1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D20%26tbs%3Disch:1

sorry for the possible funky link - found it through google images ;)

jjenny
04-13-2010, 09:00 PM
that's kind of been in the back of my head, as well. :\ an autopsy was done...would they have been able to tell from that? or a test laying around...or the nurse visit earlier in the day. idk..so many questions and sadly it seems the more we know the sadder it becomes.

I like to watch "Dr.G, medical examiner" so I presume they should have examined every organ during autopsy.

jjenny
04-13-2010, 09:11 PM
I'm not sure of Phoebe's citizen status, concentric. Good question.

I don't see any way she could have possibly been a US citizen. She was not born in US, she just moved to US recently.

BeenaBobba
04-13-2010, 09:14 PM
I like to watch "Dr.G, medical examiner" so I presume they should have examined every organ during autopsy.

They do. I've seen videos of autopsies before. They examine pretty much every organ, including the reproductive organs. If she was pregnant, they would have found out during her autopsy.

Laurence
04-13-2010, 09:14 PM
Yes, that's first the message I picked up through skimming the press, she went home and died right away. Now, that I see some more in depth pieces, it's not so clear. Yes, her phone was plugged in. So, she cared about the future when she made the choice to plug it in. But what happened between then...and the stairwell? Why no note? The christmas scarf? It would have to be totally implusive for me to believe suicide. So, I find myself looking for the catalyst...the happening that propelled her. I'm still looking... IMO

Might be the texts.

I've wondered about the possibility of pregnancy or something else along those lines that may have been a final trigger. Been trying to avoid thinking about that, but as you and others have pointed out, she came home, had at least some time to text (unless it was while on the way or still at school), plug her phone in and then...

It might just turn out to be that trying to put a logical train of events to the actions of somebody clearly so depairing is impossible. :(

Laurence
04-13-2010, 09:17 PM
that's kind of been in the back of my head, as well. :\ an autopsy was done...would they have been able to tell from that? or a test laying around...or the nurse visit earlier in the day. idk..so many questions and sadly it seems the more we know the sadder it becomes.

Agreed. I've wondered about something like this from the beginning. Like most things of this nature, I think that the truth is probably going to turn out to be something that is both mundane and horrifying at the same time.

I know reading those clinical charge sheets gave the whole an air of awfulness to me that I hadn't expected.

jjenny
04-13-2010, 09:19 PM
They do. I've seen videos of autopsies before. They examine pretty much every organ, including the reproductive organs. If she was pregnant, they would have found out during her autopsy.

Yes, they would know. It does not necessarily mean we would know at this stage, though, because we have not seen her medical records, or complete autopsy results.

JBean
04-13-2010, 09:25 PM
Now that we have a forum it is time to break out the discussion into topic specific threads.
This thread will be closing in the next couple days so please start branching out!

link to the front page of the Phoebe Prince forum:

Phoebe Prince - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Paladine
04-13-2010, 09:27 PM
Playing the victim card, imo...but I wish no one would call these people...they're using it as a shield to deflect media attention from THEIR actions...IMO

"South Hadley superintendent harassed by telephone"

AMHERST - South Hadley schools Superintendent Gus Sayer reported receiving at least eight harassing phone calls in which callers used profanities at his Amherst home Friday and Saturday, police said.

Police said they took the first report from Sayer Friday at 5:10 p.m. after he got one call from a man and, after a brief conversation, hung up on him. The man then called back three more times, leaving messages on the answering machine filled with obscenities and what police described as being harassing in nature."
http://www.gazettenet.com/2010/04/13/s-hadley-superintendent-harassed-telephone

Paladine
04-13-2010, 09:30 PM
Just saw your post, JBean...will do.

thebear14
04-13-2010, 10:20 PM
I've wondered about the possibility of pregnancy or something else along those lines that may have been a final trigger. Been trying to avoid thinking about that, but as you and others have pointed out, she came home, had at least some time to text (unless it was while on the way or still at school), plug her phone in and then...

It might just turn out to be that trying to put a logical train of events to the actions of somebody clearly so depairing is impossible. :(

ah..yeah..I've also been trying to avoid that thought. Just adds another layer of horribleness to the whole thing. Unless her autopsy reports are released doubtful we'll ever know for sure and it's likely that she wasn't...but it's also something that shouldn't be ruled out.

We may never know what the final trigger was. Maybe there wasn't one and like you said, we're just trying to put together a logical train of events when there isn't one.

During the day I'm searching for answers, searching for comments, for article, for pictures, looking through facebook groups to see if I can find some answers, some clues, some missing pieces of the puzzle that will connect the dots and make things a little clearer. And once in a while I find something that makes it a little clearer or makes it a little more hazy. But then I find myself getting ready for work in the morning, or driving to work, or laying in bed waiting for sleep to come to me and in those quiet moments I'm not searching for anything...but my heart becomes heavy and I realize that no matter what we find out - whether the puzzle pieces all come together or not - a young girl is still gone. A young girl who at a moment in time was in so much pain that she decided to end her life. Now her parents have lost a daughter and her siblings have lost a a sister. If I could relive the past several months, even though many of those months were a nightmare for me, if it would give Phoebe a second chance I would do it. Sadly, I don't think time travel is possible. So my only hope is that this case encourages stronger actions against bullying so that no other kids have to go through the same pain as Phoebe and the many other children who have lost their lives due to bullying.

ahh...sorry for going off on a tanget and being off topic a bit..my mind just wandered for a moment but I typed it so I might as well post it. have a good night everyone.

AstuteLearner8
04-13-2010, 10:43 PM
To the bear14, totally agree with you it's just that now we can only make sure that the people responsible for this will get their fair share of punishment and that we make measures to make sure that this event won't ever happen again.

Also from this link http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_school_committee.html

Not to be mean, but this Edward J Boiselle man is really showing signs of :loser: behavior. Behold the quotes.

School Committee Chairman Edward J. Boisselle on Tuesday accused local advertising man and school critic Darby J. O’Brien of “impersonating” a spokesman for the Prince family in various media outlets, including during his appearance Thursday on the nationally broadcast television program “The Dr. Phil Show.”
Edit more to this quote
“I cannot think of anything more hurtful for the community, the schools and mostly the Prince family. That is a very serious allegation,” Boisselle said.
If Mr. O'Brien hadn't stepped in and hadn't asked Kevin Cullen of the Boston Globe to write the now-world famous story of Phoebe Prince then we would have never heard about Phoebe Prince. Real smooth Boiselle, this only further fuels the debate for your resignation. STOP. TALKING. NOW.

And then O'Brien fights back

“I’m a volunteer. I do everything for the family pro bono,” O’Brien said

And apparently tomorrow at the school board meeting, Mr. O'Brien and Mr. Gelinas will be calling for the resignations O’Brien, along with resident Luke T. Gelinas, has called for Boisselle, School Superintendent Gus A. Sayer and South Hadley High School principal Daniel T. Smith to step down. Gelinas said he will make his case for the resignations during the public comment portion of the School Committee meeting set for 6:30 Wednesday night at South Hadley High School.

And this is the Prince's family attorney if anybody is interested.

Prince family’s attorney, Rebecca L. Bouchard, of the Springfield law firm of Doherty, Wallace, Pillsbury & Murphy, P.C.

daisy7
04-13-2010, 11:03 PM
Now that we have a forum it is time to break out the discussion into topic specific threads.
This thread will be closing in the next couple days so please start branching out!

link to the front page of the Phoebe Prince forum:

Phoebe Prince - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=403)

Thanks, JBean!!! :blowkiss:

daisy7
04-13-2010, 11:06 PM
Can someone start a thread for the school board meeting tomorrow? It should be interesting.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 11:15 PM
The big school commitee meeting is tomorrow.

"School committee prepares for meeting"
The South Hadley School Committee meets tomorrow night, but there's no posted agenda on the town website.
http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/School-committee-prepares-for-meeting-

Laurence
04-13-2010, 11:16 PM
Yes, that's first the message I picked up through skimming the press, she went home and died right away. Now, that I see some more in depth pieces, it's not so clear. Yes, her phone was plugged in. So, she cared about the future when she made the choice to plug it in. But what happened between then...and the stairwell? Why no note? The christmas scarf? It would have to be totally implusive for me to believe suicide. So, I find myself looking for the catalyst...the happening that propelled her. I'm still looking... IMO

Might be the texts.

I agree. There is a point in her day when she decides to do it. I would think it's very close to the act otherwise I'd think she'd back off. Something was a final straw. Sadly this (a final point) is probably a mystery in most successful attempts.

Laurence
04-13-2010, 11:19 PM
ahh...sorry for going off on a tanget and being off topic a bit..my mind just wandered for a moment but I typed it so I might as well post it. have a good night everyone.

Tangents is what internet discussion boards were made for. It was a good post.

Paladine
04-13-2010, 11:24 PM
I started the thread for the school committee meeting. Notice the date...it's on the 4 month anniversary of Phoebe's death...14/04/10...alot of "4"'s...

BeenaBobba
04-13-2010, 11:45 PM
If Mr. O'Brien hadn't stepped in and hadn't asked Kevin Cullen of the Boston Globe to write the now-world famous story of Phoebe Prince then we would have never heard about Phoebe Prince. Real smooth Boiselle, this only further fuels the debate for your resignation. STOP. TALKING. NOW.


Wow! I can't believe he said this:

I cannot think of anything more hurtful for the community, the schools and mostly the Prince family. That is a very serious allegation, Boisselle said.

That is indeed a very serious allegation against O'Brien! I would think that the Prince family would speak out if he was fraudulently or incorrectly speaking on their behalf.

Lou Cyper
04-14-2010, 01:01 AM
I've been following this case since hearing about it on another forum and eventually found the links to here.

I think the key is in those text messages on the day she died. Something tipped her over the edge after the months of relentless harassment. Have the contents of those texts been released? If not then they're obviously important in the upcoming prosecution.

My theory is that either someone like Ashley or Flannery after harassing her on the way home continued it via text or worse still one of the people she thought was a friend that she was confiding in, turned on her and said something awful as well.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 09:02 AM
I've been following this case since hearing about it on another forum and eventually found the links to here.

I think the key is in those text messages on the day she died. Something tipped her over the edge after the months of relentless harassment. Have the contents of those texts been released? If not then they're obviously important in the upcoming prosecution.

My theory is that either someone like Ashley or Flannery after harassing her on the way home continued it via text or worse still one of the people she thought was a friend that she was confiding in, turned on her and said something awful as well.

yea that sounds likely to me as well. it seems that there was likely some betrayal by people she thought were friends. if it goes to trial, I think it would be likely that the content of any text message that may have sent her over the edge will be released.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 09:04 AM
Wow! I can't believe he said this:



That is indeed a very serious allegation against O'Brien! I would think that the Prince family would speak out if he was fraudulently or incorrectly speaking on their behalf.

yea definitely. the family has been quiet but they obviously have trust in O'Brien to speak on their behalf and let the media know what they want them to know at this point. If he were saying something untrue or that they disagreed with I'm sure they would come out clarifying or at least have their attorney issue a statement.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 09:06 AM
To the bear14, totally agree with you it's just that now we can only make sure that the people responsible for this will get their fair share of punishment and that we make measures to make sure that this event won't ever happen again.

Very true. Thanks to you and Laurence for not minding my wandering mind last night ;) This case has really been taking a toll on me the past several days - it weighs heavily on my mind. I just really hope something good comes of this case, that an example will finally be set. Phoebe's death shall not be in vain, I hope.

concentric
04-14-2010, 10:32 AM
I'm with you all here. This case is indeed weighing heavily on my mind as well, like a grey cloud, depressing. And I agree, for her to take her life, it would have had to be her whole sense of self and reality that was shattered, such as in someone or several "someones" delivering that fatal blow to her psyche that had been made extremely fragile by constant berating.

How these young people can be so devious and calculating is mind-blowing. For me, that behavior is no less appaling than if they were street gangsters.

What crime would it be called when someone murders someone by driving them to suicide?

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 10:39 AM
Very true. Thanks to you and Laurence for not minding my wandering mind last night ;) This case has really been taking a toll on me the past several days - it weighs heavily on my mind. I just really hope something good comes of this case, that an example will finally be set. Phoebe's death shall not be in vain, I hope.

<3 lots and lots of hugs!!

My husband looks at me weird when he sees me crying or eyes tearing up. I've tried to explain it to him. I don't know how.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:57 AM
<3 lots and lots of hugs!!

My husband looks at me weird when he sees me crying or eyes tearing up. I've tried to explain it to him. I don't know how.

Concentric and WhaddupYo - glad I'm not the only one :) and thanks for the hugs! I have the same problem - my boyfriend knows I've sort of been following the case but don't think he realizes how invested I am in it as he's at work most nights and that's when I'm at home. It's been a close call a few times with the eyes tearing up - I can imagine I wouldn't know how to explain it either if he caught me. I can't even explain it - I don't know why this case is affecting me so much. I've read many other stories like this, and of course they've been sad and terrible but I've never gotten caught up in them like with this one. I don't think I could handle following more than one case at a time - this one is so mentally and emotionally draining - I would definitely end up having a drinking or smoking habit if I were to involved with another one and I just can't afford to do that! :eek:

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 11:55 AM
I think that's why I am sticking to this story mainly..reading about anyone else will drive me to drink

Paladine
04-14-2010, 12:41 PM
I've been following this case since hearing about it on another forum and eventually found the links to here.

I think the key is in those text messages on the day she died. Something tipped her over the edge after the months of relentless harassment. Have the contents of those texts been released? If not then they're obviously important in the upcoming prosecution.

My theory is that either someone like Ashley or Flannery after harassing her on the way home continued it via text or worse still one of the people she thought was a friend that she was confiding in, turned on her and said something awful as well.

Hey Lou :) Welcome, glad you found us :dance:...and I tend to agree. Those texts will be telling.

I'm having computer problems. :furious: Had to switch computers...ugh. I like my old beat up buddy...so, I may be slow in posting today. I hope others will keep our sub-forum rocking today...

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 12:47 PM
Yes I too wonder about the texts and what type of phone she had. The texts were unopened.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Concentric and WhaddupYo - glad I'm not the only one :) and thanks for the hugs! I have the same problem - my boyfriend knows I've sort of been following the case but don't think he realizes how invested I am in it as he's at work most nights and that's when I'm at home. It's been a close call a few times with the eyes tearing up - I can imagine I wouldn't know how to explain it either if he caught me. I can't even explain it - I don't know why this case is affecting me so much. I've read many other stories like this, and of course they've been sad and terrible but I've never gotten caught up in them like with this one. I don't think I could handle following more than one case at a time - this one is so mentally and emotionally draining - I would definitely end up having a drinking or smoking habit if I were to involved with another one and I just can't afford to do that! :eek:

I have found the same, bear. I have been a member here for around 2 yrs. In that time, I've peeked in at many cases but have only been truly drawn in by 3. ANS, Casey Anthony, and Jasmine Fiore. Until Phoebe. I feel even more determined than I did on the other cases to get Phoebe's voice out there. To have her story told. She was ignored and thrown to the wolves, imo. No more.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 12:54 PM
In the comments section

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_high_school_staff.html

Yes, a dance was held days after PP took her own life. Two of the "young ladies" (disputable) involved were overheard disparaging PP's memory at a local South Hadley hair salon; something to the affect of "Phoebe, Phoebe, Phoebe, this had better not ruin my night at the dance!" Among other things, this is a sad commentary on the self centeredness and sense of entitlement felt by today's youth. I worry for them!

Paladine
04-14-2010, 01:05 PM
Wow! I can't believe he said this:



That is indeed a very serious allegation against O'Brien! I would think that the Prince family would speak out if he was fraudulently or incorrectly speaking on their behalf.
IMO: I THINK what has happened is the school committee has pulled a fast move. They needed to stop O'Brien, they saw what an effect O'Brien was having as the unofficial spokesperson for the Prince's. Dr. Phil was crushing for them, I'd bet, yet so good for the Princes. They we're able get Phoebe's story out there without having to commit to it being OFFICIALLY from them. If the Princes had an qualms about O'Brien acting as their unofficial spokesperson, I'd bet they would have spoke up.

So...the school committee calls the Prince's Attorney and asks if O'Brien is the spokesperson. Naturally, imo...the attorney said, no. So, they call him an impersonator! Smooth but transparent, to me. They want to cut his support off before the meeting tonight. Shameful, imo.
http://www.masslive.com/metrowest/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-25/1271229379245540.xml&coll=1

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Disgusting. I'm glad Darby was able to get the story out there. I wouldn't have known about it had a local radio station not picked up on it out here and talked about it.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 01:17 PM
More articles with interesting comments

http://www.wwlp.com/search/SERP?q=phoebe+prince&t=web&submit=Search&s=wwlp.com&o=relevance&google_web=google

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 01:18 PM
He's calling Phoebe's mom a liar!

South Hadley, Mass (WWLP) - Superintendent Gus Sayer told 22News Phoebe's mother claims she contacted the South Hadley High School twice to tell the school about the bullying problem her daughter was facing, but Sayer says he has yet to find any record of such an exchange within the system.

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/%272-groups-of-students%27-bullied-prince

Paladine
04-14-2010, 01:20 PM
He's calling Phoebe's mom a liar!

South Hadley, Mass (WWLP) - Superintendent Gus Sayer told 22News Phoebe's mother claims she contacted the South Hadley High School twice to tell the school about the bullying problem her daughter was facing, but Sayer says he has yet to find any record of such an exchange within the system.

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/%272-groups-of-students%27-bullied-prince
Wow, waddup! We need to spread word of that! If you haven't, would you please post this link on our media thread?

Paladine
04-14-2010, 01:30 PM
from that link...

Superintendent Sayer says Principal Smith reprimanded one group of students for bullying Phoebe Prince on January 7th, one week before she died, but the problem was, there was a second group of students that no other students came forward to tell the school system about, until the day after Phoebe took her own life.
I figured they'd try this. I posted such on our 1st thread. But it doesn't wash.

IMO There are many instances, pointed out in the statement of facts, that show Teachers SAW what was happening between the beginning of school in Jan and the 14th. WHY didn't they stop Sharon in the cafeteria? 2 teachers saw it, per the report. WHY didn't they stop it in the library? A faculty SAW it and DIDN'T report it until AFTER Phoebe died. Why didn't they know about the class picture, days before Phoebe died, on which Phoebe's pic was defaced? A teacher was told who eventually took it down. Why didn't they do more in the nurses office that day, when Phoebe was sent home crying? I call bull.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 01:34 PM
Wow, waddup! We need to spread word of that! If you haven't, would you please post this link on our media thread?

Will do

Ok call me stupid but where's the media thread? LOL

Paladine
04-14-2010, 01:41 PM
Cosby also told King that he could not believe that Prince's teachers in South Hadley High School, Massachusetts had failed to address what was happening to her.

'I don't know if shocked is the word as - as much as I just did not believe,' said Cosby. 'I don't believe that you can take a job as a teacher, as a superintendent, as a principal and - and not recognize, when you're being told by parents,' he added.

King reminded Cosby that all of Prince's teacher's and administrators said they had no idea the bullying was going on. Cosby dismissed this idea and highlighted his own successful experience in dealing with school bullies in the past.

'You see, for instance, when our daughter Erica had a problem, she reported it to us. Mrs. Cosby then went to the school. The school immediately - and Erica is maybe seven, eight years old - immediately brought the parents in of the child who was doing the bullying. And it - it worked.'

The contrast between the Cosby families' experience and Prince's could not have been more stark.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Bill-Cosby-lashes-out-at-Phoebe-Prince-bullies-90830324.html

MaureenN
04-14-2010, 01:49 PM
IMO: I THINK what has happened is the school committee has pulled a fast move. They needed to stop O'Brien, they saw what an effect O'Brien was having as the unofficial spokesperson for the Prince's. Dr. Phil was crushing for them, I'd bet, yet so good for the Princes. They we're able get Phoebe's story out there without having to commit to it being OFFICIALLY from them. If the Princes had an qualms about O'Brien acting as their unofficial spokesperson, I'd bet they would have spoke up.

So...the school committee calls the Prince's Attorney and asks if O'Brien is the spokesperson. Naturally, imo...the attorney said, no. So, they call him an impersonator! Smooth but transparent, to me. They want to cut his support off before the meeting tonight. Shameful, imo.
http://www.masslive.com/metrowest/republican/index.ssf?/base/news-25/1271229379245540.xml&coll=1


Personally, I feel that his statements & activism carry more weight as a concerned member of the community, rather than as a spokesman for just one family, anyway. He's addressing issues that the community should have dealt with long before Phoebe even moved to town, I think.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 01:53 PM
I don't know if this is Sharon's myspace or not since I can't view at work. I won't post the link but it's in the comments.

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/documents-phoebe-texted-before-death#idc-cover

thebear14
04-14-2010, 02:00 PM
Personally, I feel that his statements & activism carry more weight as a concerned member of the community, rather than as a spokesman for just one family, anyway. He's addressing issues that the community should have dealt with long before Phoebe even moved to town, I think.

Yeah I agree. I thought originally he had previously known the Prince family, or may be related due to his last name. However I believe an article pointed out that he contacted Kevin Cullen to get Phoebe's story out and then the Prince family called to thank him and that's how it started. I think that's how the story went, anyway. But yeah, it definitely holds more weight then if he was just a hired spokesperson. Also I believe he has a daughter that attends SHHS, so he's also a concerned parent.

elle1919
04-14-2010, 02:09 PM
Hi everyone, WS has been such a busy place over the past few days but Phoebe hasn't left my mind. The new sub forum is great.....thanks JBean!

If anyone has photo's saved since the start of the case and is good at posting pictures, (all I can seem to do is get a thumbnail to post) maybe we could get a images thread going. I think this will be okay as long as we stick to only posting case players and such. Also, I haven't been following the case as well as you all or I would do it, but maybe a listing of the case players would be great to have for reference as well. :blowkiss:

I think I read that JBean said this thread would be closing soon, I think she wants everyone to not be shy and really branch out with the topics!

Paladine
04-14-2010, 02:14 PM
Personally, I feel that his statements & activism carry more weight as a concerned member of the community, rather than as a spokesman for just one family, anyway. He's addressing issues that the community should have dealt with long before Phoebe even moved to town, I think.
I agree, Maureen. But it's the quotes that accuse him of "impersonating" that, imo, are an attempt to discredit him, make him look like a phony, a fake... I find it repulsive and manipulative.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 02:24 PM
Hi everyone, WS has been such a busy place over the past few days but Phoebe hasn't left my mind. The new sub forum is great.....thanks JBean!

If anyone has photo's saved since the start of the case and is good at posting pictures, (all I can seem to do is get a thumbnail to post) maybe we could get a images thread going. I think this will be okay as long as we stick to only posting case players and such. Also, I haven't been following the case as well as you all or I would do it, but maybe a listing of the case players would be great to have for reference as well. :blowkiss:

I think I read that JBean said this thread would be closing soon, I think she wants everyone to not be shy and really branch out with the topics!

Hey, elle :) I only know how to post thumbnails, too. Anybody out there good with pics? Image thread is a great idea...before all the images disappear.

A few thoughts from my unorganized mind...;)

And, yes, maybe we could start threads on all the perps, with any info we find on them...?

Also maybe a thread on the officials, school committee members....Biosselle, Smith and Sayer....?

And a crime scene thread...? A thread for the day that Phoebe died, maybe...? With info about her death, we have alot of questions around that...

I am not good at organizing, I'll be frank. It's not in my genes. ;) I await others thoughts....

ETA: still having computer difficulties...I am going to be slow today. :(

Paladine
04-14-2010, 02:44 PM
Education Department Touts New Civil Rights Enforcement Efforts, But Will Not Investigate Suicide of Bullied Student
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer

But when asked by CNSNews.com following the speech if her office was investigating the Jan. 14 death of Phoebe Prince, an Irish immigrant who hanged herself after being bullied for weeks by nine teens, Ali said no even though some of the suspects are charged with violating Massachusetts civil rights statutes.

Yes, it appears that there were some civil rights issues -- national origin and discrimination under Title IV, Ali said.

Its hard to know, but we have offered to provide technical assistance to the school, Ali added. Were going to let the criminal case, the state-level criminal cases play out, but well be watching closely and do whatever we can to make sure the culture of that school that gave rise to that tragedy gets changed.

When asked again if her office was investigating the case, she said it wasnt: We have not launched, Ali said. The state is investigating and prosecuting criminally its investigating both the perpetrators of the bullying but also the school itself.

So were watching and were working with local officials but we have not launched an investigation and as of right now dont plan to, Ali said. Well see what happens with the state.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/64104

Laurence
04-14-2010, 02:49 PM
Education Department Touts New Civil Rights Enforcement Efforts, But Will Not Investigate Suicide of Bullied Student
Wednesday, April 14, 2010
By Penny Starr, Senior Staff Writer

The state is investigating and prosecuting criminally its investigating both the perpetrators of the bullying but also the school itself.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/64104

Interesting... these sorts of things don't always mean anything, but here is somebody that theoretically has an interest (job/position related) in the case.

Laurence
04-14-2010, 02:51 PM
If anyone has photo's saved since the start of the case and is good at posting pictures, (all I can seem to do is get a thumbnail to post) maybe we could get a images thread going.

I've copied about every picture of Phoebe I've come across so I could give it a try if a pictures thread is created.

Laurence
04-14-2010, 02:58 PM
yeah - I believe it was totally impulsive. However the fact that she came home, plugged in her phone, was apparently texting, used the scarf her sister gave her for xmas, and had to know that either her sister or her mom but most likely her little sister would find her...just doesn't add up. If she came straight home and was just in such a bad mental state that she did it I would understand better, but the fact that it seems she was home for a bit, even just 10 or 15 mins just seems strange. Plus she was talking with someone who must have been a friend as she was talking about what had happened that day. why even bother telling someone? idk - I also agree that something else may have happened to set it off. sorry if this is just a repeat of everything that's already been said ;)

It just occurred to me that in the long run we are more likely to learn about Phoebe herself from the defense (the bullies lawyers) because they and the school administration so far appear to be heading toward tearing her up to deflect attention from their side.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 02:59 PM
Students protesting outside of school? Not sure what the motive is...#9890 #9890.2 #9890.2.2 says Dan Smiths bro Mike was super before...?
http://www.masslive.com/forums/southhadley/

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Uhm why did it take LE to over 25 min to show up to Prince residence? Isn't this a small town?

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 03:08 PM
Oh yeah! I am on my twitter now searching Phoebe Prince...lots of info soon!

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 03:12 PM
This skyagua is a moron. A simple moron on the masslive forums.

9890.3.1.2.1.1. Hey
by skyagua, 4/14/10 14:58 ET
Re: Students protesting for peace by skyagua, 4/14/10
let's play the numbers game and say 1000% percent were involved. If you say 1000% is a legitimate statistic, I'm sure it must be.
You'll just make stuff up that suits your agenda, with no basis in fact.

And you obviously have never raised kids through the High School years or you'd know most of them didn't know what was going on and certainly not to the extent it was.

My school was 2 schools in 1 in middle and hs. We had split levels. Upstairs for middle school, downstairs for HS. It was well over 2000 students and if someone was getting bullied WE ALL KNEW! This was back in 90-97 I attended. Even the teachers knew. And there was no twitter, facebook or myspace. Hell we didn't have the internet till 1997!

Pull your head out of your stinky ass!

Paladine
04-14-2010, 03:14 PM
Interesting... these sorts of things don't always mean anything, but here is somebody that theoretically has an interest (job/position related) in the case.

Uhm why did it take LE to over 25 min to show up to Prince residence? Isn't this a small town?

Good question. The population is only 17,000 or so, I think, and Phoebes house is in town. Do we have a link saying such handy, waddup? Be good to get it in black and white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Hadley,_Massachusetts

ETA link on population

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 03:15 PM
I don't know why but I'm annoyed by Khloe Kardashian chiming in on this too.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 03:25 PM
Yes I too wonder about the texts and what type of phone she had. The texts were unopened.
No idea on the type of phone...good question. Some friend, using the term loosely, might know.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 03:26 PM
Alex Sampson most people forgot that her aunt called and told that phoebe was EXTREMELY suicidal and depressed previous to the bullying

On Memorial for Phoebe site

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Phoebe-Prince-Memorial-Page/105352276172296?ref=mf&v=wall

What a nimrod!

Paladine
04-14-2010, 03:39 PM
SOUTH HADLEY – Nearly 60 South Hadley High School students staged a rally outside the school Wednesday afternoon, saying they want to make a change in the community.

Carrying signs saying, “Let there be peace and let it begin with with us,” and “No H-8.”

The students said the atmosphere at the school has been difficult in the two months since the suicide of Phoebe Prince, a 15-year-old transfer student from Ireland. Prince, 15, hanged herself on Jan. 14 following what Northwestern District Attorney Elizabeth D. Scheibel said was months of bullying and harassment at South Hadley High School. Scheibel announced criminal charges against six of Prince’s classmates at a March 29 press conference.

Students at the rally chanted for peace and asked each other to only talk about the positive.

“We’re all here today because we want to make a change in the community and heal from the last two months,” said Shae Fogarty, 15, a sophomore, who organized the rally.

Students said the consant media attention since Prince’s death has been a strain.
I've seen that name before...I can't remember where, yet, the name of the organizer...something stinks here, imo. They are saying, "NO MORE TELLING OUR DIRTY SECRETS"...IMO
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_students_stage_ra.html

Paladine
04-14-2010, 04:01 PM
new info coming out on April 26th from People mag...
http://celebritychatta.com/2010/04/14/people-magazine-april-26-phoebe-prince-bullied-to-death/

Paladine
04-14-2010, 04:16 PM
I was just chatting with CF2, he suggested a thread for screenshots. We could collect all the screen shots from the perps pages/fb of their reaction after phoebe's death. Not sure if this is against TOS, somehow...mods? Oh...and I also suggested he join us here...lol...:)

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 04:18 PM
I've seen that name before...I can't remember where, yet, the name of the organizer...something stinks here, imo. They are saying, "NO MORE TELLING OUR DIRTY SECRETS"...IMO
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_students_stage_ra.html

You've seen that name from me. She is one of Sean's supporters on his page.

Laurence
04-14-2010, 04:22 PM
I was just chatting with CF2, he suggested a thread for screenshots. We could collect all the screen shots from the perps pages/fb of their reaction after phoebe's death. Not sure if this is against TOS, somehow...mods? Oh...and I also suggested he join us here...lol...:)

I believe I'm seen him post on masslive that he has a lot of screenshots from the early days before things were deleted or hidden behind privacy settings. They would be great to post here as a storage site if it doesn't violate the TOS or other rules.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 04:28 PM
You've seen that name from me. She is one of Sean's supporters on his page.

THANK YOU! I knew it...lol...so a supporter of Phoebe's alleged rapist is the organizer behind this "shut the heck up" rally? HMM...

IMO

Paladine
04-14-2010, 04:32 PM
I believe I'm seen him post on masslive that he has a lot of screenshots from the early days before things were deleted or hidden behind privacy settings. They would be great to post here as a storage site if it doesn't violate the TOS or other rules.

Yes he just told me to get the photo thread up...he'll have some for us!! :) (photos and screenshots)

I told him it's up...:)

Paladine
04-14-2010, 04:34 PM
I've copied about every picture of Phoebe I've come across so I could give it a try if a pictures thread is created.

I think one is up, Lawrence...

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 04:45 PM
THANK YOU! I knew it...lol...so a supporter of Phoebe's alleged rapist is the organizer behind this "shut the heck up" rally? HMM...

IMO

Yup! that's the little *****.. Sorry for the cursing, it's the angry sailor in me coming out.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 04:47 PM
Lovelies I'm out for a bit but will be back to check in on this and will see what I can do to support the pictures thread. I'm interested in seeing these screen saves from the first days after her death.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 05:04 PM
Yes, me, too, waddup, these screenshots should be interesting, I'll wait and see if CF2 takes my suggestion and signs up. If not, I'm sure he'll share. It's for Phoebe.

Thanks again for remembering and previously mentioning S.F. I knew I saw it, I just had to ask...teamwork. :) I'll be back a little later, too. I have some WS housekeeping to attend to. My inbox..:eek:

MaureenN
04-14-2010, 05:11 PM
I've seen that name before...I can't remember where, yet, the name of the organizer...something stinks here, imo. They are saying, "NO MORE TELLING OUR DIRTY SECRETS"...IMO
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_students_stage_ra.html

When I googled Shae Fogarty, I came across this link: http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/one-south-hadley-kid-gets-it/ Her(?) comments that were cut/pasted in the comments to this blog seem sincere enough at the time, anyway.

I'm not sure if I'm reading the 'only talk about the positive' the same as you seem to be. To me, on my first read, I read it more as a request that bullying - saying mean, negative things about each other - should stop.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 05:25 PM
When I googled Shae Fogarty, I came across this link: http://run4chocolate.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/one-south-hadley-kid-gets-it/ Her(?) comments that were cut/pasted in the comments to this blog seem sincere enough at the time, anyway.

I'm not sure if I'm reading the 'only talk about the positive' the same as you seem to be. To me, on my first read, I read it more as a request that bullying - saying mean, negative things about each other - should stop.

Some think it's a diversion created to sway attention away from Sayer, Smith and the big committee meeting tonight. This could have been organized any day in the last 4 months. I just wonder, why today? 'Let's have peace, let's move on', seems to be the message to me, I've been known to be wrong before. ;) . If it is going to be used as a tool, it should become clear tonight. We'll see how much Sayers supporters bring up the demonstration as a reason to move on.

As for the run4chocolate posting...I've seen reports of many so-called friends grieving for Phoebe...I've also seen reports that some of these same mourners
actually participated in the tormenting. I'm not sure where S.F. stands...but her support of Mulveyhill after knowing what those dox say?...that tells me something.

MaureenN
04-14-2010, 05:37 PM
Some think it's a diversion created to sway attention away from Sayer, Smith and the big committee meeting tonight. This could have been organized any day in the last 4 months. I just wonder, why today? 'Let's have peace, let's move on', seems to be the message to me, I've been known to be wrong before. ;) . If it is going to be used as a tool, it should become clear tonight. We'll see how much Sayers supporters bring up the demonstration as a reason to move on.

As for the run4chocolate posting...I've seen reports of many so-called friends grieving for Phoebe...I've also seen reports that some of these same mourners
actually participated in the tormenting. I'm not sure where S.F. stands...but her support of Mulveyhill after knowing what those dox say?...that tells me something.

Today might have been chosen because it's 'Pink Shirt Day' http://www.pinkshirtday.ca/

But, I don't know for sure and, even then, that could have been seen as an opportunity to manipulate...

Paladine
04-14-2010, 05:43 PM
Today might have been chosen because it's 'Pink Shirt Day' http://www.pinkshirtday.ca/

But, I don't know for sure and, even then, that could have been seen as an opportunity to manipulate...

That's a Canadian event. I didn't know American schools participated? I don't buy that...:)

Paladine
04-14-2010, 05:47 PM
It is a great event, though. If they were celebrating pinktshirt day, they should have been wearing pink, my Son came home today from school COVERED in pink marker!! Peace signs all over him :)
“David Shepherd, Travis Price and their teenage friends organized a high-school protest to wear pink in sympathy with a Grade 9 boy who was being bullied…[They] took a stand against bullying when they protested against the harassment of a new Grade 9 student by distributing pink T-shirts to all the boys in their school.
‘I learned that two people can come up with an idea, run with it, and it can do wonders,’ says Mr. Price, 17, who organized the pink protest. ‘Finally, someone stood up for a weaker kid.’

http://www.pinkshirtday.ca/about/

Laurence
04-14-2010, 05:49 PM
I think one is up, Lawrence...

I just went nuts uploading over there. I doubt there will be anything that people following the case have not seen scattered around news articles and Facebook and such.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 05:49 PM
new info coming out on April 26th from People mag...
http://celebritychatta.com/2010/04/14/people-magazine-april-26-phoebe-prince-bullied-to-death/

should be an interesting read - thanks for the link! will be interested to read the exclusive interviews with phoebe's friends :\

Paladine
04-14-2010, 05:50 PM
I just went nuts uploading over there. I doubt there will be anything that people following the case have not seen scattered around news articles and Facebook and such.
I SAW that! Great work...thanks...:blowkiss:

AstuteLearner8
04-14-2010, 05:53 PM
It is a great event, though. If they were celebrating pinktshirt day, they should have been wearing pink, my Son came home today from school COVERED in pink marker!! Peace signs all over him :)

http://www.pinkshirtday.ca/about/

Wow I was wearing pink on accident today at school, now I feel a lot better now. :woohoo:

Paladine
04-14-2010, 06:04 PM
Wow I was wearing pink on accident today at school, now I feel a lot better now. :woohoo:
LOL! See...somehow...inside...your GUT told you what to do! ;)

thebear14
04-14-2010, 06:05 PM
Hey all - was just doing some thinking (uh oh!) and a little thought came to my silly mind. Probably one that's already been discussed here and probably one that's duh common sense but I'll post it anyway. I was thinking about a situation I recently had in school in which I was being harassed by a classmate and my school failed to to do anything about it (wow big surprise!). anyway, I was thinking back to that time and how when I finally started to tell people - professors, dean of students, director of my program, campus police, etc. - how I was scared of what my classmate would do if he was confronted about his behavior by one of these people. I was very worried that it would send him over the edge and he would end up going really crazy and murder me or something. When I finally told my mother what was going on it was also a fear she had, but of course it did finally get to the point where I had to let all of these people know, however it was a very hard decision because as I said, I was worried about what would happen both if I didn't say anything and if I did.

The point of my very long story is that it's likely Phoebe didn't approach anyone about her situation because she was afraid of what would happen. Let's face it - a girl tells someone in charge that these girls are saying mean things to her or pushing books out of her hand and honestly it's gonna take her reporting things like this a million times before anything real is done to help her. First they would probably just "talk" to the girls 5 times. Then maybe detention. Then suspension. Then they'll probably just get more mad at her because she's getting them in trouble. It seems like not even worth it to tell anyone what's going on because it's just going to make things worse. And it's very possible she begged her mom not to go to the school. Obviously a mom will only listen to that to a certain point, if at all, if she thinks it's going to make things worse for her daughter. I know when my mom got involved before she did anything she would tell me and make sure I was okay with it but at one point she was like "I don't care, this has to stop, I'm calling and I'm doing something whether you want me to or not".

Anyway this is probably common sense and has already been talked about but it's just something that popped into my head.

Also, I posted a link to this video on the Phoebe Prince Memorial Page on Facebook and they actually made it a link on their page today. I absolutely love this song and when it came on my iPod on a drive this weekend it immediately made me think of Phoebe. It never fails to at least choke me up a bit, it's a really beautiful song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAIKznMPXUk&feature=player_embedded

k I'm done. thanks for reading if you made it this far :)

AndyRyan
04-14-2010, 06:25 PM
That makes an awful lot of sense bear14. I remember when I was at school and I was bullied by someone in my class, I just couldnt imagine my mum coming in "making a fuss", for one thing I would have been totally humiliated never mind being scared of this persons reactions to being "squealed on" and i was only 9 at the time so I can imagine being a teen in that situation would be much more difficult as you have some bit of a reputation to protect, you might feel that you would be a laughing stock and if you were already being ridiculed that might just too much to bear.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:25 PM
I have pink on my shirt with peace signs on it

Paladine
04-14-2010, 06:34 PM
there's a pic and more names mentioned, re; student rally.
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_students_stage_ra.html

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:36 PM
Those kids really missed the whole idea and mark about what the peace rally should be about. IT shouldn't be about THEM. It should be about holding their education chain responsible for failing all of them. Screw them and their feelings. Especially piggy Fogerty. Peace. Peace. Someone should educate them better. And that guy singing..my ears are bleeding.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:37 PM
I just went nuts uploading over there. I doubt there will be anything that people following the case have not seen scattered around news articles and Facebook and such.

More of those photos made me tear up

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:41 PM
WHOA! I just found a fb group that has their addresses on it!

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:43 PM
:( This was also from a fb group

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-hatefulness-against-Phoebe-Prince-and-the-girls-involved/451005535575?ref=sgm#!/topic.php?uid=451005535575&topic=11802

Copied from her Myspace:

Ashley Longe
Female
17 years old
Massachusetts
United States

Last Login: 1/28/2010

Mood: accomplished


Oh yeah, she's grieving alright. Give me a break. These girls are sociopaths. They are self serving and feel no sense of remorse at all! Its just sick!

RIP PHOEBE!

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:48 PM
OH! I just had the most disturbing thought. Was there ANYTHING around Phoebe that was found that she could have possibly stood on to tie the scarf and then jump off of? There has to be or...

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 06:50 PM
Is Ashley's dad named Roger? According to this link he is posting! Ashley's mom is a druggie.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-hatefulness-against-Phoebe-Prince-and-the-girls-involved/451005535575?ref=sgm#topic_top

thebear14
04-14-2010, 06:57 PM
That makes an awful lot of sense bear14. I remember when I was at school and I was bullied by someone in my class, I just couldnt imagine my mum coming in "making a fuss", for one thing I would have been totally humiliated never mind being scared of this persons reactions to being "squealed on" and i was only 9 at the time so I can imagine being a teen in that situation would be much more difficult as you have some bit of a reputation to protect, you might feel that you would be a laughing stock and if you were already being ridiculed that might just too much to bear.

yep pretty much. I'm 23 and haven't lived at home in 3 years so it was kind of humiliating having my mom come in and make a fuss at college, ha. but a mum's a mum whether you're 1 or 100 and I had reached the point where I gave up so she took over.

I can only imagine being in high school and having that reputation to protect. Plus add to the fact that Phoebe was still the new girl from Ireland with an accent and "different" ways, she was a freshman while these girls were 2-3 years older than her, these girls were apparently popular and on sports teams, plus relationships with boys were also involved. I can definitely understand her not wanting to bring it up and as I believe Darby O'Brien said when it came out she had tried to get help, she must have been terribly desperate at that point.

The school should have seen and known what was going on and taken actions whether or not Phoebe stood up for herself or not. I always thought my high school was a huge piece of crap but I know if ANY faculty ever witnessed one student yelling at another in the middle of a lunchroom or any of the other things they did to Phoebe it would have been handled immediately. It wouldn't matter what kind of student it was, the one yelling would be taken to the vice principal's office or where ever and the student getting yelled at likely would have been asked if he/she wanted to talk to a counselor or something along those lines. There were just too many instances where this behavior occurred for a teacher or someone in charge to not have seen it and the lack of action taken is just despicable.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 06:59 PM
More of those photos made me tear up

yea same here :\ they really break my heart. she was happy, having fun, being a normal young teenage girl. these girls completely broke her in 4 months. ugh... :(

Lou Cyper
04-14-2010, 07:03 PM
Oh yeah, she's grieving alright. Give me a break. These girls are sociopaths. They are self serving and feel no sense of remorse at all! Its just sick!

RIP PHOEBE!


I think you've nailed it. Just a shame that these freaks ruin the lives of people who may have contributed to society.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 07:11 PM
The girl reading at the rally, today...Betty C...well, she made a comment on this fb posting defending the bullies....this whole FB group was created, from my understanding, to take pressure OFF the bullies...now, SHE and Shae, a FB fan of Sean Mulveyhill, are prominent figures in this rally today? Okay...

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=311262301354&id=451005535575
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/04/south_hadley_students_stage_ra.html

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 07:12 PM
yea same here :\ they really break my heart. she was happy, having fun, being a normal young teenage girl. these girls completely broke her in 4 months. ugh... :(

Ashley's mug would break me..at least make me throw up

Actually I could bring all these girls to tears in 10 seconds

Paladine
04-14-2010, 07:16 PM
Betty C. also was sent as a representative of the school to a bullying conference. Anyone think SHHS would send someone who didn't spout the party line to a media event?
http://www.gazettenet.com/2010/04/03/what-teens-say-about-bullying

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 07:19 PM
I joined the masslive forums!! hehe

AndyRyan
04-14-2010, 07:37 PM
Is Ashley's dad named Roger? According to this link he is posting! Ashley's mom is a druggie.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Stop-the-hatefulness-against-Phoebe-Prince-and-the-girls-involved/451005535575?ref=sgm#topic_top

Yeah that is definitely her dad you can see her brother Ryan is a friend, lovely guy (Ryan that is) partial to a racial slur or three

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 07:45 PM
Yeah that is definitely her dad you can see her brother Ryan is a friend, lovely guy (Ryan that is) partial to a racial slur or three

Do you know him? Ryan?

Paladine
04-14-2010, 07:48 PM
Just trying to figure out what this rally was about...we know Shae was listed as an organizer, and Betty C. also had a prominent role...

Betty C., the one who read at the rally today, her facebook page says she's "married" to Chris L.

http://www.facebook.com/czitrom
http://www.facebook.com/chris.lukasik319

He is all over FB telling people to shut up and the media to go away...

This is post #560 from waddupyo, posted yesterday...

"WHOA! Someone was friends with the person who lived below her!

Chris Lukasik: I never knew her and honestly, I never heard anyone talk bad about her. But that's because when I'm in the hallways I kinda am in my own world and I don't pay attention to what people say in the hallways. But I have never met her or seen her. I knew her as the upstairs neighbor to my best friend. But I never knew people disliked her so much.
Phoebe is looking down on us now in Heaven and she forgives us, everyone that hurt her, everyone that did know what was going on, everyone that didn't know, she's safe now and she forgives us."

So...he never knew her. But look at this comment from February 2, 2010 from Betty C.'s boyfriend, Chris...

Chris Lukasik you people REALLY need to get a grip. do you even live in this town? I bet money that you don't live here. Because if so you wouldn't be saying that because you would know that we are actually a very fine educational facility with a working administration. Please stop bashing my school, the only people that are allowed to say ANYTHING bad about my school are the students that are attending the school CURRENTLY. Please stop calling these girls trash, please, for God's sake, stop pointing fingers until you actually know EVERY SINGLE STRAND of this story, NOT what WWLP, The Boston Globe, Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, CNN, Good Morning America, or any other media source that has flooded our quiet little town, that has provided you with this tragic story
http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=311262301354&id=451005535575

And notice Molly O'C. agrees with Chris. To those who have heard of Molly O'C. ...that will mean something...;)

Paladine
04-14-2010, 07:49 PM
I joined the masslive forums!! hehe

Great! Go digging, WaddupYo! :)

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Just trying to figure out what this rally was about...we know Shae was listed as an organizer, and Betty C. also had a prominent role...

Betty C., the one who read at the rally today, her facebook page says she's "married" to Chris L.

http://www.facebook.com/czitrom
http://www.facebook.com/chris.lukasik319

He is all over FB telling people to shut up and the media to go away...

This is post #560 from waddupyo, posted yesterday...



So...he never knew her. But look at this comment from February 2, 2010 from Betty C.'s boyfriend, Chris...


http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=311262301354&id=451005535575

And notice Molly O'C. agrees with Chris. To those who have heard of Molly O'C. ...that will mean something...;)

These kids really are stupid. Stupid. Their parents must be seriously ashamed.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 07:55 PM
Great! Go digging, WaddupYo! :)

oh ish stirring! I'm good for that.

AndyRyan
04-14-2010, 08:01 PM
Do you know him? Ryan?

God no just had a look at his facebook page a few weeks ago, had a few unsavoury comments about black people, just gave the impression of a really uncouth toolbag. (please excuse my expressions)

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 08:03 PM
God no just had a look at his facebook page a few weeks ago, had a few unsavoury comments about black people, just gave the impression of a really uncouth toolbag. (please excuse my expressions)

page is private now

AndyRyan
04-14-2010, 08:13 PM
These kids really are stupid. Stupid. Their parents must be seriously ashamed.

Good old Molly she really is a compassionate creature... Their ego's amaze me , that's what it boils down to, they can't stand the thought of anybody "dissing" their town, even though they do it themselves, they seem to have been really enjoying that rally today and they seem to have forgotten that a young girl is dead her family are living in hell because of it . It beggars belief the selfishness of these people that they would put their own feelings first. To top it all off, if they were more willing to speak compassionately about Phoebe then maybe the whole world wouldn't feel the need to stand up for her IMO

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 08:18 PM
Good old Molly she really is a compassionate creature... Their ego's amaze me , that's what it boils down to, they can't stand the thought of anybody "dissing" their town, even though they do it themselves, they seem to have been really enjoying that rally today and they seem to have forgotten that a young girl is dead her family are living in hell because of it . It beggars belief the selfishness of these people that they would put their own feelings first. To top it all off, if they were more willing to speak compassionately about Phoebe then maybe the whole world wouldn't feel the need to stand up for her IMO

This town has so many village idiots. Kids are so stupid. Sorry to say that. I have 2 and both are young. Actually let me rephrase. Teenagers that think they are sly are stupid. Deleting stuff from social sites doesn't delete totally. The stuff is still there. and it's been screen capped by numerous folks. Teens are so full of themselves. Especially this little group. I'd like to put tapatio in their sodas.

AndyRyan
04-14-2010, 08:25 PM
This town has so many village idiots. Kids are so stupid. Sorry to say that. I have 2 and both are young. Actually let me rephrase. Teenagers that think they are sly are stupid. Deleting stuff from social sites doesn't delete totally. The stuff is still there. and it's been screen capped by numerous folks. Teens are so full of themselves. Especially this little group. I'd like to put tapatio in their sodas.

I just had to look up tapatio online, I may try that.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 08:37 PM
SOUTH HADLEY (FOX 25 / MyFoxBoston.com) - Critics spoke out for the resignation of school officials at South Hadley High school at a crowded and heated school committee meeting on Wednesday night.

Two speakers who went before the committee calling for the resignation of Superintendent Gus A. Sayer and Principal Daniel T. Smith were cut off by School Committee Chairman Edward J. Boisselle and then escorted out by police.

People also spoke in support of the superintendent and principal, saying "South Hadley needs to heal."

Critics we're essentially DRAGGED OUT BY POLICE...

Where did we hear today that South Hadley needs to "heal"? OH, Yes! at that staged rally!!
“We wanted to have this rally to support ourselves, support our community, everybody, and just make a positive experience out of it all and make everybody heal from this.”

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/s-hadley-students-organize-peace-rally

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/critics-call-for-south-hadley-administrators-to-step-down-20100414

thebear14
04-14-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm really tired of this "once you hear the whole story" crap because that's all it is, crap. I kind of touched on this the other day but basically I don't give a crap if Phoebe slept with every guy on the football team. I don't care if she got drunk and did drugs every night. I don't care if she got smart with or argued with some of these bullies at one point or another. I don't care if SM and AR were supposed to be committed to these other girls while they were doing whatever with Phoebe. I also don't care if Phoebe had a history of depression or had previously seen a therapist. I also don't care about anything else negative these people have to say about Phoebe. and honestly NOBODY should care. This is not about that.

These girls harassed Phoebe to the breaking point. They called her derogatory names, pushed books out of her hand, shoved her into lockers, followed her into bathrooms, yelled at her in class and in the cafeteria, told her to go kill herself, and at least on one final occasion threw a beverage can at her. I've also read that they would make fun of her for wearing scarves (???) and would grab on to them while she was walking, but I don't think I've seen an official report of that. They continued their harassment online and through text messaging. Who knows what else happened that we don't know about.

So basically, enough of this "whole story" crap. If Phoebe did every one of the things I listed in the first paragraph, she would be not be very different at all from many 14-15 year old girls. A young girl lost her life too soon and none of this "whole story" stuff is going to change my opinion that the actions of these girls are what caused Phoebe to lose her will to live.

end rant. :furious:

thebear14
04-14-2010, 09:17 PM
Strange thing I realized a few days ago. I realized that I remember the afternoon of January 14th very clearly. I had left work early as I had a class for the first time that night and wanted to read a bit of my book before class. I got home and had a ton of interruptions and kept getting really annoyed. I gave up on trying to read so I went on my computer for a bit then had some dinner and went to class.

I realize now that as I was getting home, Phoebe was likely taking her last walk home from school, getting a beverage can thrown at her as well as several insults. I realize as I was trying unsuccessfully to sit on my couch and read a chapter out of my textbook for class, Phoebe was likely sending and receiving her last text messages. As I was giving up on actually getting the reading done, Phoebe was ending her life. As I was driving to school, her little sister arrived home to find her big sister had taken her life. As I was sitting waiting for class to start, wondering whether my teacher would be nice or not but she looked nice, Phoebes mother was finding out her daughter was dead.

Sorry this is kind of morose and off topic. I know theres a lot of discussion going on tonight with the committee meeting and all. Its just something I realized a few days ago when it clicked that Jan 14th was a Thursday and thus was the first day of one of my classes and a memorable one at that because I remember how annoyed I was getting by everything that afternoon. I keep going back to that day and realizing what was happening about 6 hours north of me at the same time and its just been kind of haunting. It feels like it could have just been yesterday. Its been going around in my head for a few days and since its been three months today I figured Id share and hopefully some of you wont mind.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 09:35 PM
I just had to look up tapatio online, I may try that.

it's good on fish

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 09:40 PM
I can't stand this. I can't stand how those people in SH are. I can't stand how the school covers everything and the police do nothing. I can't stand it. I'm so upset I'm crying right now. Poor Phoebe. Poor Phoebe's friends. Poor other students getting picked on. :(:furious::liar::liar::liar::puke:

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 09:45 PM
No No NO I can not accept this. Something has to be done. What can we do as residents of other states? Something has to be done. It seems this stupid school runs this town!

Paladine
04-14-2010, 09:45 PM
I can't stand this. I can't stand how those people in SH are. I can't stand how the school covers everything and the police do nothing. I can't stand it. I'm so upset I'm crying right now. Poor Phoebe. Poor Phoebe's friends. Poor other students getting picked on. :(:furious::liar::liar::liar::puke:
That's exactly how I feel, WaddupYo...and why they need to be exposed for who they are. To me, it's like the world can see what they are doing...but they think they are fooling us all into believing everything is peachy keen. But it's not...and we know. The emperor has no clothes.

IMO

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 09:53 PM
Can't the school administration be fired? Protests, letters, something?!

Paladine
04-14-2010, 09:55 PM
No No NO I can not accept this. Something has to be done. What can we do as residents of other states? Something has to be done. It seems this stupid school runs this town!
That is a good question. What can be done? I think there needs to be pressure brought on that federal civil rights watchdog, I posted the link earlier. She said they are watching how the state handles it. SO...it would seem to me, pressure brought to bear on the State, or this group, might be helpful. Not that I am organizing anything. I AM NOT. I was timed out before, almost 2 years ago...I do not want to repeat that horrific, scarring nightmare...:angel:

Paladine
04-14-2010, 09:58 PM
Can't the school administration be fired? Protests, letters, something?!
I'm so tired tonight, waddup, I'm short on ideas. I'll wait for others...
It's depressing. They seem SO dysfunctional, to me. And THESE are the Adults! 'Apple doesn't fall far from the tree'...comes to mind.

WaddupYo
04-14-2010, 09:59 PM
I'm gonna go for a walk. Play with my kids. Do some work. Something to take my mind off. Take care all. "see" ya in the AM.
xoxoxo

Laurence
04-14-2010, 10:13 PM
Sorry this is kind of morose and off topic. I know there’s a lot of discussion going on tonight with the committee meeting and all. It’s just something I realized a few days ago when it clicked that Jan 14th was a Thursday and thus was the first day of one of my classes and a memorable one at that because I remember how annoyed I was getting by everything that afternoon. I keep going back to that day and realizing what was happening about 6 hours north of me at the same time and it’s just been kind of haunting. It feels like it could have just been yesterday. It’s been going around in my head for a few days and since it’s been three months today I figured I’d share and hopefully some of you won’t mind.

I also thought about what was I doing that day. And the answer is... I can't remember. It was a completely nothing day for me. Didn't even have any meetings on my calendar from that day. Just, a nothing day for me while it was THE day for a girl all alone.

I wonder what's going on someplace else right now that could be prevented? :(

Laurence
04-14-2010, 10:17 PM
I've been pretty busy today so I didn't have time to do much besides post those pictures in the other thread. Didn't get to watch the stream of the meeting in SH tonight, but I did skim the Masslive forum and comments elsewhere.

Essentially this entire day in South Hadley was a sham. The students this afternoon had some kind of rally about stopping the hate (last fall would have been nice). Speakers that were not supportive of the school administration were cut off and taken out by the police. Supporters were allowed to speak. Nice.

I guess I'm just a cynic, but frankly I pretty much expected this. I think that:

The students knew and did nothing (and some actively participated) and a good portion of them wanting the media and all the attention to go away is due to guilt over their actions or inactions. I think this "rally" this afternoon was encouraged and abetted by the alleged adults in the school.

The school administration completely failed this girl. Their behavior since is surprising only in its clumsy ineptitude. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at how pathetic their transparent attempts to brush this aside have been. Afterall, had they been competent in the first place none of this would have happened.

I think the townsfolk in general are sick of the attention, but most are just closing ranks and blaming outsiders (the media, us out here on the 'net, Phoebe...).

And speaking of Phoebe. I think a great deal of the closing of ranks in that school and that town has to do with the fact that Phoebe Prince was, and to these people always will be, an outsider.

Had she never come to South Hadley, none of their terrible misfortunes would have come about. Just look at their explanations for things. Phoebe was popular, the boys liked her, no wonder the girls were mad at her (Phoebe's fault). Phoebe was different, she stood out with her accent, no wonder the boys were interested (Phoebe's fault). She was weak, she had depression, she got no support elsewhere, hey we even heard that she tried to commit suicide before so... don't you see? (Phoebe's fault) Our poor kids are getting harrassed and threatened on the internet, just like they allegedly did to Phoebe but it wasn't as bad as people make out (Phoebe's fault).

Phoebe Prince was an outsider, and the majority of the students, administration and townspeople are angry at her for causing all of their misfortune.

What we've seen tonight is just the start of how the people in South Hadley are going to fight this. I really think that if this thing actually starts looking like it will go to a trial that we'll see a real ramp up in disclosures about Phoebe like people suddenly being willing to talk to the media about Phoebe in a negative light.

Trials (if it comes to it) like this often get moved so the defendants can get a fair jury. Reading the accounts of this meeting tonight, I've now decided that I want this trial moved as far from South Hadley as possible.

I think Phoebe doesn't stand a chance if anybody from this town is on a jury.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:21 PM
I wonder what's going on someplace else right now that could be prevented? :(

I often wonder the same thing :(

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:23 PM
Had she never come to South Hadley, none of their terrible misfortunes would have come about. Just look at their explanations for things. Phoebe was popular, the boys liked her, no wonder the girls were mad at her (Phoebe's fault). Phoebe was different, she stood out with her accent, no wonder the boys were interested (Phoebe's fault). She was weak, she had depression, she got no support elsewhere, hey we even heard that she tried to commit suicide
before so... don't you see? (Phoebe's fault) Our poor kids are getting harrassed and threatened on the internet, just like they allegedly did to Phoebe but it wasn't as bad as people make out (Phoebe's fault).

Phoebe Prince was an outsider, and the majortiy of the students, administration and townspeople are angry at her for causing all of their misfortune.

how very sad and true. agh I don't even know what to say. should probably just go to bed :(

Paladine
04-14-2010, 10:30 PM
I also thought about what was I doing that day. And the answer is... I can't remember. It was a completely nothing day for me. Didn't even have any meetings on my calendar from that day. Just, a nothing day for me while it was THE day for girl all alone.

I wonder what's going on someplace else right now that could be prevented? :(
January 14th is my Brother's birthday. I don't remember what we did...but I will remember Phoebe on the next birthday.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 10:34 PM
Lawrence...you make a good point about the jury pool. Could they, would they ask for change of venue? Would it be in South Hadley or Springfield, I wonder?

Paladine
04-14-2010, 10:36 PM
OH! I just had the most disturbing thought. Was there ANYTHING around Phoebe that was found that she could have possibly stood on to tie the scarf and then jump off of? There has to be or...
We need to learn more about that, for sure, waddupyo...

Paladine
04-14-2010, 10:44 PM
I'm not sure if someone posted this...but would someone please tell me how you have a meeting, when you are forbidden from asking questions? Is this a new fangled kinda meeting? Or is it something in the water...? Wow...

SOUTH HADLEY, Mass. (WWLP) - The "speak-out" portion of Wednesday night's South Hadley School Committee meeting was heated, volatile and tense.

At times there were back and fourth barbs being exchanged between concerned citizens and parents during their 'turn' to speak with members of the School Committee. Many residents were not pleased as the board was sure to enforce the rules with anyone who stepped-up to the microphone.

Each speaker was held to a strict time limit, was not allowed to talk about Phoebe Prince, and was not permitted to ask any questions of the Committee.
http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/heated-south-hadley-speak-out

Laurence
04-14-2010, 10:44 PM
Lawrence...you make a good point about the jury pool. Could they, would they ask for change of venue? Would it be in South Hadley or Springfield, I wonder?

I'm in IT, not law, lol. I supposed the moving of cases varies a great deal from state to state. The thought about the jury and moving the case occurred to me only as I was typing that post, and though I've never followed a case like this before, it just seems like all the big cases get moved around. I hope this one does too.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:47 PM
OH! I just had the most disturbing thought. Was there ANYTHING around Phoebe that was found that she could have possibly stood on to tie the scarf and then jump off of? There has to be or...

oy..I must have read this 15 times and my dense self couldn't figure out what you were trying to say...thought you accidentally hit submit before you finished your sentence. Now that I'm half asleep I understand. and my reaction is :no: :\ very disturbing indeed - have been trying not to think about the "act" so much but very good question even if it makes me feel ill :(

I'm guessing they take pictures of the scene even when suicide is presumed, right?

Laurence
04-14-2010, 10:50 PM
We need to learn more about that, for sure, waddupyo...

I think until we actually learn details of the house and the actual scene, I'm pretty much sticking with the idea that there is an interior stairwell and she either used the railing and went over the side (hence the hanging in the stairwell reports) or at the top of the stairwell on the landing there was a closet or wardrobe she used (hence the closet/wardrobe references seen in some articles).

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:51 PM
I'm not sure if someone posted this...but would someone please tell me how you have a meeting, when you are forbidden from asking questions? Is this a new fangled kinda meeting? Or is it something in the water...? Wow...

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/heated-south-hadley-speak-out

how can one not speak about Phoebe when she is the reason for the meeting? Let's face it - if she was still here this meeting would not be taking place. Gee, let's not talk about the elephant standing in the middle of the room. I can understand maintaining a respectful tone but the fact is Phoebe is the one who lost her life here and from what I've read and skimmed it seems those who were advocating for Phoebe were the ones silenced. ah! I think you were right in the other thread Paladine, let's get some testing done over there. Think something bad is in their water.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:54 PM
I think until we actually learn details of the house and the actual scene, I'm pretty much sticking with the idea that there is an interior stairwell and she either used the railing and went over the side (hence the hanging in the stairwell reports) or at the top of the stairwell on the landing there was a closet or wardrobe she used (hence the closet/wardrobe references seen in some articles).

man...good thinking but I should have done what I said I was gonna do 15 mins ago and went to bed :( I have several images in my head that I do not wish to be there. puppies, kittens, rainbows, fluffy unicorns, etc. la la laaaa

Paladine
04-14-2010, 10:54 PM
I think until we actually learn details of the house and the actual scene, I'm pretty much sticking with the idea that there is an interior stairwell and she either used the railing and went over the side (hence the hanging in the stairwell reports) or at the top of the stairwell on the landing there was a closet or wardrobe she used (hence the closet/wardrobe references seen in some articles).
Yes. Until we know more...we really know nothing, imo.

Laurence
04-14-2010, 10:55 PM
how can one not speak about Phoebe when she is the reason for the meeting? Let's face it - if she was still here this meeting would not be taking place. Gee, let's not talk about the elephant standing in the middle of the room. I can understand maintaining a respectful tone but the fact is Phoebe is the one who lost her life here and from what I've read and skimmed it seems those who were advocating for Phoebe were the ones silenced. ah! I think you were right in the other thread Paladine, let's get some testing done over there. Think something bad is in their water.

They want her gone. That's the beginning, middle and end of this story. They did not care what happened to her when she was there, and now she's this big "problem" that they want to just go away so they can go back to their happy little small town lives.

thebear14
04-14-2010, 10:56 PM
They want her gone. That's the beginning, middle and end of this story. They did not care what happened to her when she was there, and now she's this big "problem" that they want to just go away so they can go back to their happy little small town lives.

yeah definitely true. just makes me so ill it's hard to comprehend.

Paladine
04-14-2010, 10:58 PM
We wanted clearer images of the library...this quote...was the meeting in the SHHS library?
Gelinas refused to sit down after his allotted time had expired, and according to one officer because he was "creating a disturbance" in the library.
http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/heated-south-hadley-speak-out

Paladine
04-14-2010, 11:38 PM
There is a person that wants to join. This is someone who would be a thoughtful contributor, imo. He said he joined but has been able to post, yet. He is asking if there a waiting period, mods?

ETA: I sent him this link to keep an eye open for an answer...

adnoid
04-14-2010, 11:42 PM
There is a person that wants to join. This is someone who would be a thoughtful contributor, imo. He said he joined but has been able to post, yet. He is asking if there a waiting period, mods?

ETA: I sent him this link to keep an eye open for an answer...

Have him email moderator chicoliving, she handles registrations. Or me and I'll get together with her.