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K777angel
07-18-2004, 01:52 PM
While I have always felt that the SBTC sign off on the Ramsey note was randomly made up just like everything else in the note, I found this that I ran across interesting.

In John Douglas' book "The Cases That Haunt Us" he has a photograph of one of the Zodiac killer's notes he sent to the Editor of the San Fransisco Chronicle.
He signs the note SFPD.
Now this obviously means "San Fransisco Police Department" - but with references to movie lines in the Ramsey note - what if Patsy had read of the Zodiac killer's sign off too in a book at some time and subconciously did the same in an attempt (as the whole note was) to try and write a note like she THOUGHT a real kidnapper or killer would write.

Just a thought......

~Angel~

TressaRing28
07-18-2004, 07:34 PM
While I have always felt that the SBTC sign off on the Ramsey note was randomly made up just like everything else in the note, I found this that I ran across interesting.

In John Douglas' book "The Cases That Haunt Us" he has a photograph of one of the Zodiac killer's notes he sent to the Editor of the San Fransisco Chronicle.
He signs the note SFPD.
Now this obviously means "San Fransisco Police Department" - but with references to movie lines in the Ramsey note - what if Patsy had read of the Zodiac killer's sign off too in a book at some time and subconciously did the same in an attempt (as the whole note was) to try and write a note like she THOUGHT a real kidnapper or killer would write.

Just a thought......

~Angel~

I don't know Angel,

Patsy in my opinion, wouldn't have killed JB. Covering up was her job. [/B] Who made Patsy write the note has always been my thought.

Eagle1
07-19-2004, 05:49 PM
I think that's good, K777, works for me, IF Patsy wrote the note at all. Or whoever may have written it, they may have read enough books or seen enough movies about this sort of thing to know the gang usually signs off with an acronym of some kind.

guppy
07-24-2004, 01:03 AM
Patsy Ramsey's secret obsession with copying the Zodiac. That is ridiculous.

Barbara
07-24-2004, 08:54 AM
Patsy Ramsey's secret obsession with copying the Zodiac. That is ridiculous.

Not quite as ridiculous as the Helgoth and Gigax theory. Now THAT'S ridiculous!

K777angel
07-24-2004, 12:13 PM
Patsy Ramsey's secret obsession with copying the Zodiac. That is ridiculous.

I never said Patsy had a "secret obsession" with the Zodiac. YOU characterized it that way. Of course she didn't. I just thought it an interesting coincidence that the sign-offs were so close.
One meant something (Zodiac's) - one did not (Ramsey's).

Blazeboy3
07-29-2004, 04:30 AM
I don't know Angel,

Patsy in my opinion, wouldn't have killed JB. Covering up was her job. [/B] Who made Patsy write the note has always been my thought.

Interesting observation: Why wouldn't Patsy at a fleeting moment loose control and kill JB? If "Covering Up" was her job...what other "jobs" did she assume/handle...surely Patsy did/had many "above/beyond" talents that most don't have IMHO?. IMHO Patsy made John make her (in a round-about-way) write the night to save them both and even profit from it...what a duo/team for-profit in the name of JonBenet...just too clever?? :eek: :D :innocent:

guppy
08-01-2004, 01:00 AM
Perhaps you haven't heard, but Patsy Ramsey didn't write the ransom note. Maybe whoever did had a secret obsession with the Zodiac.

Ivy
08-01-2004, 01:19 AM
guppy, I think by now that everyone has heard that Patsy didn't write the ransom note. The RST says it all the time. lol

imo

Eagle1
08-02-2004, 07:33 PM
Either of you could be right.

Eagle1
01-07-2007, 09:22 AM
Perhaps you haven't heard, but Patsy Ramsey didn't write the ransom note. Maybe whoever did had a secret obsession with the Zodiac.

MAYBE whoever did write it had a secret obsession with the Zodiac. Exactly. And I didn't keep up with the Zodiac killer so that's all I know. As an FS, neutral, I'd just say there are lots of guys out there who're a lot like the Zodiac, and a lot like Karr, and a lot like whoever-whatever anybody might name. Not many like Patsy who'd lose it and kill her most precious possession, then be thinking like the Zodiac killer. It's just too unlikely a story, besides all the clues we have that others were involved, in other states! (The loiterer in Charlevoix, Michigan, the impersonator of JAR in Waterford, Michigan, the Louisianna letter, and the Barnhills' seeing that walker before dark, to name a few. There may have been LOTS more that we never heard of.) And.....

Someone recently asked my thoughts on this again, reason I'm resurrecting it. In 2006 we learned that Karr's handwriting matched the note about as much as Patsy's handwriting did. Who knew that more than one person could have such similar handwriting? His was from an OLD h.s. yearbook.

Maybe someone here knows how many points of PR's handwriting matched, vs. how many points Karr's did? Plus, he used an acronym way back when he was in h.s. Twenty years (?) before we heard of him, and lived in the Atlanta area, and a mysterious "shabby" brown santa bear showed up in JBR's room the night of the murder. The one she'd been given at a pageant was white and had some sort of banner on it.

angarella
01-07-2007, 10:40 AM
Perhaps you haven't heard, but Patsy Ramsey didn't write the ransom note. Maybe whoever did had a secret obsession with the Zodiac.


Who did then? In your opinion.

Peter Hamilton
01-07-2007, 01:07 PM
guppy, of course Patsy wrote the ransom note--did you not see all the similarities from the site acandyrose.com? If not I suggest you get over there pronto--Anyway, I knew Patsy wrote the ransom the very first time I read it over 10 years ago--It is the most amateurish,insipid,overlong ransom note ever written....and I know ransom notes since I have read over 700 true crime books---I won't go into all the details abou the note since it has already been discussed ad infinutum--and remember that the FBI determined that a 40 year old southern woman wrote it---and of course there was no evidence of any intruder(remember the unbroken spider web by the broken window?)--so who do you think it wrote it? Burke? lol

Eagle1
01-07-2007, 02:35 PM
.....As an FS, neutral, I'd just say there are lots of guys out there who're a lot like the Zodiac, and a lot like Karr, and all kinds of other criminal types.

Not many like Patsy who'd lose it and kill her most precious possession, then be thinking like the Zodiac killer.

It's just too unlikely a story, besides all the clues we have that others were involved, in other states! (The loiterer in Charlevoix, Michigan, the impersonator of JAR in Waterford, Michigan, the Louisianna letter, and the Barnhills' seeing that walker before dark, to name a few. There may have been LOTS more that we never heard of.) And.....
.. In 2006 we learned that Karr's handwriting matched the note about as much as Patsy's handwriting did. Who knew that more than one person could have such similar handwriting? His was from an OLD h.s. yearbook.

Maybe someone here knows how many points of PR's handwriting matched, vs. how many points Karr's did? Plus, he used an acronym way back when he was in h.s. Twenty years (?) before we heard of him, and lived in the Atlanta area, and a mysterious "shabby" brown santa bear showed up in JBR's room the night of the murder. The one she'd been given at a pageant was white and had some sort of banner on it.

Has anything about Karr's handwriting been added at ACandyRose? (I know, I know. You want me to go see for myself. Maybe later, onto something else right now.)

Show Me
01-07-2007, 05:24 PM
I don't think it's close enough....after all John Ramsey is right on the initials...

Ames
01-07-2007, 09:05 PM
guppy, of course Patsy wrote the ransom note--did you not see all the similarities from the site acandyrose.com? If not I suggest you get over there pronto--Anyway, I knew Patsy wrote the ransom the very first time I read it over 10 years ago--It is the most amateurish,insipid,overlong ransom note ever written....and I know ransom notes since I have read over 700 true crime books---I won't go into all the details abou the note since it has already been discussed ad infinutum--and remember that the FBI determined that a 40 year old southern woman wrote it---and of course there was no evidence of any intruder(remember the unbroken spider web by the broken window?)--so who do you think it wrote it? Burke? lol
And even Patsy herself, said that she thought that the ransom note was written by a woman. (subliminal confession, perhaps?)

Dru
01-07-2007, 11:38 PM
Hi, I'm a newbie here, so please forgive me if this "SBTC" possibility has been mentioned before.

I was reading Delmar England's ransom note analysis on a candy rose and thought it was interesting how things in the note were connected to things the RN writer was thinking/worried about. Like, that the next day will be exhausting, and the RN writer was worried about proper burial. I started wondering if there was anything with the initials SBTC that PR, if hypothetically she were the RN writer, might be worried about, and I came up with one possibility.

If PR (with or without JR) was staging an elaborate crime scene and writing the note, she'd be aware that everything had to be done and ready in time for her to 'wake up' and find the note, thus putting off their flight to Michigan. I think the pressure to meet that deadline was considerable, since people knew they were planning to go, JR's other kids were meeting them there, etc. What if subconsciously PR was thinking, over and over, about that flight they wouldn't now be taking, and how she needed to be finished long before the now-impossible seven a.m. takeoff time, and when she came to sign the note, she wrote SBTC, maybe not even realizing herself that it was the time and direction of the intended flight: Seven a.m., Boulder to Charlevoix?

Again, if this has been suggested a million times please excuse me, as I'm still getting caught up.

coloradokares
01-07-2007, 11:59 PM
Hi, I'm a newbie here, so please forgive me if this "SBTC" possibility has been mentioned before.

I was reading Delmar England's ransom note analysis on a candy rose and thought it was interesting how things in the note were connected to things the RN writer was thinking/worried about. Like, that the next day will be exhausting, and the RN writer was worried about proper burial. I started wondering if there was anything with the initials SBTC that PR, if hypothetically she were the RN writer, might be worried about, and I came up with one possibility.

If PR (with or without JR) was staging an elaborate crime scene and writing the note, she'd be aware that everything had to be done and ready in time for her to 'wake up' and find the note, thus putting off their flight to Michigan. I think the pressure to meet that deadline was considerable, since people knew they were planning to go, JR's other kids were meeting them there, etc. What if subconsciously PR was thinking, over and over, about that flight they wouldn't now be taking, and how she needed to be finished long before the now-impossible seven a.m. takeoff time, and when she came to sign the note, she wrote SBTC, maybe not even realizing herself that it was the time and direction of the intended flight: Seven a.m., Boulder to Charlevoix?

Again, if this has been suggested a million times please excuse me, as I'm still getting caught up.
:waitasec: I'll be darned.......?

T-Rex
01-08-2007, 01:34 AM
That's a really interesting thought!

philamena
01-08-2007, 01:40 AM
Not quite as ridiculous as the Helgoth and Gigax theory. Now THAT'S ridiculous!AMEN to that.
And let's not forget the Spin Team's Santa and Fleet White Theories. :banghead:

Ames
01-08-2007, 11:08 AM
Hi, I'm a newbie here, so please forgive me if this "SBTC" possibility has been mentioned before.

I was reading Delmar England's ransom note analysis on a candy rose and thought it was interesting how things in the note were connected to things the RN writer was thinking/worried about. Like, that the next day will be exhausting, and the RN writer was worried about proper burial. I started wondering if there was anything with the initials SBTC that PR, if hypothetically she were the RN writer, might be worried about, and I came up with one possibility.

If PR (with or without JR) was staging an elaborate crime scene and writing the note, she'd be aware that everything had to be done and ready in time for her to 'wake up' and find the note, thus putting off their flight to Michigan. I think the pressure to meet that deadline was considerable, since people knew they were planning to go, JR's other kids were meeting them there, etc. What if subconsciously PR was thinking, over and over, about that flight they wouldn't now be taking, and how she needed to be finished long before the now-impossible seven a.m. takeoff time, and when she came to sign the note, she wrote SBTC, maybe not even realizing herself that it was the time and direction of the intended flight: Seven a.m., Boulder to Charlevoix?

Again, if this has been suggested a million times please excuse me, as I'm still getting caught up.
WHOA....thats the first time that I have ever seen that on ANY JB board. Good thinking!!!!

Nuisanceposter
01-08-2007, 11:27 AM
That is pretty good thinking, but I'm sure she knew that flight was off (and therefore no longer needed to be on her mind.) I have the feeling that Patsy, in her obsessive need to turn to religion for answers (as seen throughout DOI), was referring to Saved By The Cross with SBTC. She was going to have to rely on her belief of Jesus dying on the cross to save man from their sins to save her from hers. I think it was a final affirmation in her mind that everything would be okay once she was forgiven by God, and she would find her victory over adversity with her devotion to her faith.

Eagle1
01-08-2007, 12:31 PM
It's great to have some creative thinkers aboard. I'm also in agreement with NP's quote below, though we're not usually on the same side. I call myself neutral, an FS, fence sitter, but IF PR wrote the note at all, I think NP's hit the nail on the head about Saved By the Cross. Makes sense. There were actually at least 3 people we know of whose handwriting tended to match, PR, Karr, and the Barnhills' boarder Glen Meyer. His was looked at more than once. Even if PR didn't write the note, any believer could have the same thoughts about Saved By the Cross. All of us believers have been taught to look to our religion as the ultimate wisdom. That's certainly not unique to PR.


That is pretty good thinking, but I'm sure she knew that flight was off (and therefore no longer needed to be on her mind.) I have the feeling that Patsy, in her obsessive need to turn to religion for answers (as seen throughout DOI), was referring to Saved By The Cross with SBTC. She was going to have to rely on her belief of Jesus dying on the cross to save man from their sins to save her from hers. I think it was a final affirmation in her mind that everything would be okay once she was forgiven by God, and she would find her victory over adversity with her devotion to her faith.

UKGuy
01-08-2007, 12:46 PM
I reckon analysing the ransom note is like the medieval poser, how many angels can fit onto the head of a pin?

Since the ransom note is fake, and that the paper its written on, along with the pen used, was sourced from inside the Ramsay house, also add in the initial drafts or practise versions found, along with the fact that there is no evidence of an intruder.

Then the most important deduction that follows from the latter is that an occupant of the Ramsey household authored it.

Given the context of the ransom note, why SBTC should mean Saved By The Cross beats me, not unless the alleged foreign faction were intended to have a christian background?

Were John and Patsy people of faith, or was their church-going simply a conservative habit?

If Patsy authored that ransom note why construct it to be largely ambiguous but sign off with a contradictory christian phrase?

The purpose of the ransom note is to deceive you, so like any staged crime-scene evidence you cannot use it to speculate about prior events.

But there is one feature worth considering, that is, which information did the Ramsey's want you to beleive?

Well foremost for me is this extract:



I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery.


This along with JonBenet's tombstone inscription is probably intended to give you the false impression that after returning from the White's, JonBenet was killed later that night?


JonBenet may have been killed later into the morning than most people assume!




.

coloradokares
01-08-2007, 02:07 PM
It's great to have some creative thinkers aboard. I'm also in agreement with NP's quote below, though we're not usually on the same side. I call myself neutral, an FS, fence sitter, but IF PR wrote the note at all, I think NP's hit the nail on the head about Saved By the Cross. Makes sense. There were actually at least 3 people we know of whose handwriting tended to match, PR, Karr, and the Barnhills' boarder Glen Meyer. His was looked at more than once. Even if PR didn't write the note, any believer could have the same thoughts about Saved By the Cross. All of us believers have been taught to look to our religion as the ultimate wisdom. That's certainly not unique to PR.
Yes they required 2 samples from Glen Meyer however that is a far cry from saying they matched or tended to match. Which is exactly what they claimed with Patsy Ramsey. I know some Johnny come lately tried to make JMK sound like it matched back in all the hype last year. Quickly that was proved wrong when they cannot get him placed in Boulder. But I digresss..... I have not ever seen it said that Glen Meyers was even a potential match as you suggest. Can you provide a link or page number that suggests this was the case with Glen Meyer. It would be pertinent info if so. I have never seen that information prior to this. If so that would be interesting information. I always as a local believed that Glen Meyer was fairly quickly cleared, I know that many IDI's feel no one was ever cleared if it was DNA alone that cleared them. However that would play just as valid with the Ramseys then would it not? They are not cleared DNA wise as Lou Smit and team Ramsey claims either. Perhaps as NP suggests this is not a case for DNA. I just want to understand how it is that people who have been considered to be not under suspicion at all are suddenly under the wheels of the bus yet again, I am rather confused by this as this is not the prevailing opinion at least locally in Boulder. Even our mayor at the time said there is no murderer roaming the streets of Boulder. Now it seems most of its residents are still cast in a suspicious light. Thats puzzling to me. If it were someone from Boulder don't you think they'd have been under investigation by the Grand Jury by now?

JMO8778
01-08-2007, 02:29 PM
of course Patsy wrote the ransom note--did you not see all the similarities from the site acandyrose.com? If not I suggest you get over there pronto--Anyway, I knew Patsy wrote the ransom the very first time I read it over 10 years ago--It is the most amateurish,insipid,overlong ransom note ever written....and I know ransom notes since I have read over 700 true crime books---I won't go into all the details abou the note since it has already been discussed ad infinutum--and remember that the FBI determined that a 40 year old southern woman wrote it---and of course there was no evidence of any intruder(remember the unbroken spider web by the broken window?)ditto for me,that stupid note did it for me 10 yrs ago..i also thought it odd they weren't angry....combine it w/ all the other evidence,and there's no way they aren't guilty.
Look at what the note actually says,not just the handwriting.Karr wouldn't have said 'use that good southern common sense of yours' and all the other nonsense ..and who would have? only an R,I believe.

JMO8778
01-08-2007, 02:31 PM
That is pretty good thinking, but I'm sure she knew that flight was off (and therefore no longer needed to be on her mind.) I have the feeling that Patsy, in her obsessive need to turn to religion for answers (as seen throughout DOI), was referring to Saved By The Cross with SBTC. She was going to have to rely on her belief of Jesus dying on the cross to save man from their sins to save her from hers. I think it was a final affirmation in her mind that everything would be okay once she was forgiven by God, and she would find her victory over adversity with her devotion to her faith.yes,reminds me of her saying 'help me Jesus' repeatedly at the end of the 911 call.

JMO8778
01-08-2007, 02:34 PM
I reckon analysing the ransom note is like the medieval poser, how many angels can fit onto the head of a pin?

Since the ransom note is fake, and that the paper its written on, along with the pen used, was sourced from inside the Ramsay house, also add in the initial drafts or practise versions found, along with the fact that there is no evidence of an intruder.

Then the most important deduction that follows from the latter is that an occupant of the Ramsey household authored it.

Given the context of the ransom note, why SBTC should mean Saved By The Cross beats me, not unless the alleged foreign faction were intended to have a christian background?

Were John and Patsy people of faith, or was their church-going simply a conservative habit?

If Patsy authored that ransom note why construct it to be largely ambiguous but sign off with a contradictory christian phrase?

The purpose of the ransom note is to deceive you, so like any staged crime-scene evidence you cannot use it to speculate about prior events.

But there is one feature worth considering, that is, which information did the Ramsey's want you to beleive?

Well foremost for me is this extract:



This along with JonBenet's tombstone inscription is probably intended to give you the false impression that after returning from the White's, JonBenet was killed later that night?


JonBenet may have been killed later into the morning than most people assume!




.true,the headstone says the 25th tho.

SuperDave
01-10-2007, 07:19 PM
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

Eagle1
01-11-2007, 10:15 AM
yes,reminds me of her saying 'help me Jesus' repeatedly at the end of the 911 call.

Yes, and that reminds me of one of our recent Cold Cases, where someone claiming to be dirt poor but very religious for the first five pages or so wanted our encouragement or something, to get her millionaire brother's suicide or murder pinned on his pharmacist widow. One guy also told her she'd told us too many times how much she's suffered but no information that would allow us to help, so it's not just me. Now that the thread is closed, a second time, I keep wondering about the religious and suffering act. And her claiming the widow committed frauds about finances. Now how could she know that?

Not saying this makes anyone definitely guilty or not guilty, but it does make you wonder about motive.

K777angel
01-12-2007, 01:41 PM
I will say again what I said when I started this thread long ago.
I think it is silly to waste time trying to figure out what S.B.T.C. means in the note when EVERYTHING ELSE in the note was fake and made up! Purposely so! What is the note writer going to do - at the very end of the note decide to add a little TRUTH?
No way.
You cannot separate the whole purpose of writing that note from the S.B.T.C. sign off. Namely - to DECEIVE!

It would not fit with the whole context of the note to suggest that the SBTC is somehow meaningful to the writer and that it stands for something REAL.

Nothing in that note is real.
It was all designed, as the FBI stated - to deflect suspicion AWAY from the perps (Ramseys). Not cryptically point them back to themselves in such a conscious way!

Don't waste your time trying to figure this one out. It's as fake as the "foreign faction."

~Angel~

Ames
01-12-2007, 09:50 PM
When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
SuperDave...that is REALLY profound...and SO true!

eliminate the impossible + whatever remains + truth = Guilty Ramseys

IMO

SuperDave
01-13-2007, 03:41 PM
I can't take credit for that one, Ames. Due must be given to Sir Arthue Conan-Doyle.

cami
01-17-2007, 11:01 AM
I will say again what I said when I started this thread long ago.
I think it is silly to waste time trying to figure out what S.B.T.C. means in the note when EVERYTHING ELSE in the note was fake and made up! Purposely so! What is the note writer going to do - at the very end of the note decide to add a little TRUTH?
No way.
You cannot separate the whole purpose of writing that note from the S.B.T.C. sign off. Namely - to DECEIVE!

It would not fit with the whole context of the note to suggest that the SBTC is somehow meaningful to the writer and that it stands for something REAL.

~Angel~

What if it does though? I made an observation (not here) at the time of Patsy's death. There was an article in a newspaper quoting her sister Pam. Pam said "she achieved her VICTORY at 3:30 am this morning (the time Patsy died). I started to think that if her sister refers to death as a victory, maybe Patsy did as well and I started to look at SBTC in the context of the word Victory with it.

"She's gone," Pam says. "She got her victory at 3 o'clock in the morning on Saturday."

Link to Article (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3983709)

Just a thought...

UKGuy
01-17-2007, 11:30 AM
true,the headstone says the 25th tho.

This will be part of the staging, its intended to make her death late that evening consistent with their staging and version of events. ino JonBenet was likely killed later than this?



.

Eagle1
01-18-2007, 11:45 AM
What if it does though? I made an observation (not here) at the time of Patsy's death. There was an article in a newspaper quoting her sister Pam. Pam said "she achieved her VICTORY at 3:30 am this morning (the time Patsy died). I started to think that if her sister refers to death as a victory, maybe Patsy did as well and I started to look at SBTC in the context of the word Victory with it.

"She's gone," Pam says. "She got her victory at 3 o'clock in the morning on Saturday."

Link to Article (http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3983709)

Just a thought...

I know you're also thinking, as I am, that Pam was just referring to the case when she said Patsy got her victory, and trying to minize the "loser" aspect, that she didn't really get her answer as to who killed JonBenet before she passed on. Maybe she knows now, or, maybe the dead forget all that so that they can be happy in heaven, a new beginning???????

JMO8778
01-18-2007, 01:48 PM
Yes, and that reminds me of one of our recent Cold Cases, where someone claiming to be dirt poor but very religious for the first five pages or so wanted our encouragement or something, to get her millionaire brother's suicide or murder pinned on his pharmacist widow. One guy also told her she'd told us too many times how much she's suffered but no information that would allow us to help, so it's not just me. Now that the thread is closed, a second time, I keep wondering about the religious and suffering act. And her claiming the widow committed frauds about finances. Now how could she know that?

Not saying this makes anyone definitely guilty or not guilty, but it does make you wonder about motive.it sure does !!!

JMO8778
01-18-2007, 01:51 PM
This will be part of the staging, its intended to make her death late that evening consistent with their staging and version of events. ino JonBenet was likely killed later than this?



.could be,I think the coroner said most likely 'at or b/f 1AM?'

cami
01-19-2007, 11:19 AM
I know you're also thinking, as I am, that Pam was just referring to the case when she said Patsy got her victory, and trying to minize the "loser" aspect, that she didn't really get her answer as to who killed JonBenet before she passed on. Maybe she knows now, or, maybe the dead forget all that so that they can be happy in heaven, a new beginning???????

Actually no I didn't think she was referring to the case. I don't think the comment was made in that context. I thought it was made in the context of their religion..whatever it is...and her death.

No matter, it was just a thought.

rashomon
01-19-2007, 09:55 PM
I will say again what I said when I started this thread long ago.
I think it is silly to waste time trying to figure out what S.B.T.C. means in the note when EVERYTHING ELSE in the note was fake and made up! Purposely so! What is the note writer going to do - at the very end of the note decide to add a little TRUTH?
No way.
You cannot separate the whole purpose of writing that note from the S.B.T.C. sign off. Namely - to DECEIVE!

It would not fit with the whole context of the note to suggest that the SBTC is somehow meaningful to the writer and that it stands for something REAL.

Nothing in that note is real.
It was all designed, as the FBI stated - to deflect suspicion AWAY from the perps (Ramseys). Not cryptically point them back to themselves in such a conscious way!

Don't waste your time trying to figure this one out. It's as fake as the "foreign faction."

~Angel~My thoughts exactly.
Imo the dots between the letters are far more interesting than the acronym itself, for didn't Patsy have a habit of using those dots in the acronyms she was so fond of using in her letters?

RedChief
01-21-2007, 11:07 PM
JonBenet may have been killed later into the morning than most people assume!

Yes to the above, UKGuy. I understand your reckoning about the promise, "I will call you tomorrow...", and wouldn't it have been ever so helpful if both time and date had been specified. You entertain the possibility that the Ramseys may have wanted the world to think that the crime occurred prior to midnight 25/26. Now, please be patient with me, just as you have always been in the past, and allow me to ask bluntly, why would they want everyone to think that? For everyone to think that is for everyone to dismiss the alleged scream which occurred sometime after midnight, if memory serves. I guess the Ramseys saw the report of the scream for what it was--a neighbor's dream? The Ramseys were thinking ahead--to the date they wanted to inscribe on their daughter's tombstone, eh.

I really do enjoy dialoguing with you.

SuperDave
01-22-2007, 12:13 PM
You entertain the possibility that the Ramseys may have wanted the world to think that the crime occurred prior to midnight 25/26. Now, please be patient with me, just as you have always been in the past, and allow me to ask bluntly, why would they want everyone to think that? For everyone to think that is for everyone to dismiss the alleged scream which occurred sometime after midnight, if memory serves.

I'll tell you why: because it's more tragic that way, so it increases their victimhood. Plus, it could be a subconscious need to confess.

Eagle1
01-22-2007, 10:00 PM
So's Eagle. Ask Eagle. (Just kidding, Supe.)

Anyway, they did some testing that it was possible for Melody Stanton to hear the scream and the 3rd floor occupants not hear it, so I really don't think it was just a dream. And it'd just be too much of a coincidence that she'd have such a dream at the exact time a real-life person screamed.

If my tentative theory turns out to be even partially correct, that some of the friends may have been there, JR did all the downplaying because of his guilt about having been such a failure as a parent, and to try to prevent the public finding out what he'd been allowing to go on in that house. Nedra was once quoted as saying JohnBenet wasn't molested MUCH, and sorry, I don't remember the source for that. Ask Super Dave. It may be much more important than we thought, key to the whole thing.

SuperDave
01-27-2007, 09:08 PM
If my tentative theory turns out to be even partially correct, that some of the friends may have been there, JR did all the downplaying because of his guilt about having been such a failure as a parent, and to try to prevent the public finding out what he'd been allowing to go on in that house.

My brother's the same way.


Nedra was once quoted as saying JonBenet wasn't molested MUCH, and sorry, I don't remember the source for that. Ask Super Dave. It may be much more important than we thought, key to the whole thing.

I think it was in PMPT.

Toaster
01-30-2007, 05:38 AM
So's Eagle. Ask Eagle. (Just kidding, Supe.)

Anyway, they did some testing that it was possible for Melody Stanton to hear the scream and the 3rd floor occupants not hear it, so I really don't think it was just a dream. And it'd just be too much of a coincidence that she'd have such a dream at the exact time a real-life person screamed.
Who was the other person that heard JB scream?

Solace
01-30-2007, 10:35 AM
Who was the other person that heard JB scream?
Toaster: A neighbor said she heard a child scream late that night. She then recanted. No-one else heard the scream as far as I know.

Toaster
01-30-2007, 06:58 PM
Toaster: A neighbor said she heard a child scream late that night. She then recanted. No-one else heard the scream as far as I know.I knew that. It was Eagle1's post that confused me. He should have wrote "And it'd just be too much of a coincidence that she'd have such a dream at the exact time a real-life person (might have) screamed".

Sorry, I thought he was implying that it was known she screamed.

narlacat
01-31-2007, 12:56 AM
I knew that. It was Eagle1's post that confused me. He should have wrote "And it'd just be too much of a coincidence that she'd have such a dream at the exact time a real-life person (might have) screamed".

Sorry, I thought he was implying that it was known she screamed.Toaster

Eagles a she and I can see how she confused you in that post.

Eagle1
01-31-2007, 09:03 PM
Toaster, Eagle's a she, and I can see how she confused you in that post.

"Let me rephrase" again.

If Melody Stanton was awakened by a scream at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, we could assume it was a dream, since nobody in the neighborhood would have screamed then.
But she woke her husband, so they know what time it was, right about the time we decided that JonBenet was probably being murdered. Get it? The timing.

Evidently Stanton was silenced the same way Barnhill was. Someone talked them both out of what they'd seen and heard. I still believe a scream woke Stanton, and her husband definitely said he heard the sound of metal on concrete. So what do you suppose woke her, before her husband, if not the scream that she first said she heard?
Police tested and found the sound would carry to their house but not up to the 3rd floor of the Rs' house.

narlacat
01-31-2007, 09:24 PM
"Let me rephrase" again.

If Melody Stanton was awakened by a scream at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, we could assume it was a dream, since nobody in the neighborhood would have screamed then.
But she woke her husband, so they know what time it was, right about the time we decided that JonBenet was probably being murdered. Get it? The timing.

Evidently Stanton was silenced the same way Barnhill was. Someone talked them both out of what they'd seen and heard. I still believe a scream woke Stanton, and her husband definitely said he heard the sound of metal on concrete. So what do you suppose woke her, before her husband, if not the scream that she first said she heard?
Police tested and found the sound would carry to their house but not up to the 3rd floor of the Rs' house.Thanks for clarifying Eagle.

Eagle1
01-31-2007, 09:33 PM
Thanks for clarifying Eagle.

So the way I've put it this time makes sense, everyone?

She may have just decided on her own that she was mistaken, since her husband wasn't silenced and did tell what he heard. But BPD tested, and verified the sound of a scream would indeed travel across the street from the Rs' basement, but not upwards to the 3rd floor.

I don't think I'd have bought a house with childrens' bedrooms on a floor below the parents. To me it's a very ugly house, even if someone hadn't got killed there. But I know, in that location it was stylish.