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View Full Version : How Did Gardner Abduct Amber?


cloudajo
04-20-2010, 08:16 AM
[snipped from Feb 13, 2010 article]

"Based on the amount of traffic and the amount of people (in the area), her being kidnapped off the street is not likely," Benton said. "If there was a commotion, it would have been seen by somebody."

============

I disagree with this being put out there based on other cases where people have been abducted in broad daylight with other people around. These are some questions in my mind.



I wonder how Gardner got Amber into his vehicle? Did he pull over, ask her for directions, then threaten her with a knife or gun?
Was the young male seen walking with/near Amber not related to her abduction or was it Gardner?
I wonder if any of Amber’s things found with/near her? IPod, cell phone, shoulder bag, valentine’s gifts, check for lamb, etc.?
Was it Gardner that turned her cell phone on briefly the next day or someone else who found it?

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_17edfcec-657a-5398-8295-4b1ada991f56.html

smart blonde
04-20-2010, 08:20 AM
Thank you, cloudajo..........

This very question had been nagging me for weeks, now.

I also want to know.

Sharyne
04-22-2010, 12:48 AM
I remember watching her father saying he didn't need any more details. The how he got her is the only detail I'd like to know...the rest would be too hard to hear/read.

Nancy2441
04-22-2010, 08:31 PM
The gag order was lifted today:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/22/gag-order-gardner-case-stays-place-now/

Yet details of how Gardner was tied to the murder of 17-year-old Chelsea and how he abducted another murder victim — 14-year-old Amber Dubois of Escondido — may remain unanswered until after Gardner’s June 1 sentencing, if not longer.

SoCalSleuth
04-23-2010, 09:55 AM
The gag order was lifted today:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/22/gag-order-gardner-case-stays-place-now/

Yet details of how Gardner was tied to the murder of 17-year-old Chelsea and how he abducted another murder victim — 14-year-old Amber Dubois of Escondido — may remain unanswered until after Gardner’s June 1 sentencing, if not longer.

Per Maurice Dubois' comments after the hearing yesterday, LE does not know how JAG abducted Amber. www.signonsandiego.com

Nancy2441
04-23-2010, 07:02 PM
Per Maurice Dubois' comments after the hearing yesterday, LE does not know how JAG abducted Amber. www.signonsandiego.com

Thanks. I found the article.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/apr/22/father-of-slain-teen-urges-restraint-on-details/

The lengthy investigation in Amber’s case resulted in a massive amount of documentation. The gag order also prevented Dubois from seeing the reports, but he said Thursday he has been told they include almost no information related to Gardner.

Details that some might hope to find, such as how Amber was abducted while walking to school, are not in the voluminous reports, Dubois said.

“Details of how Amber was abducted were never given,” he said. “Investigators don’t know.”

Nancy2441
04-24-2010, 12:36 AM
I remember watching her father saying he didn't need any more details. The how he got her is the only detail I'd like to know...the rest would be too hard to hear/read.

ITA. I would like to know how he was able to abduct Amber. Mainly so young kids and women will know in the future how to protect themselves against these evil monsters. Beyond that, for the families sake, I don't think we have a right to know anything.

SoCalSleuth
04-24-2010, 02:05 AM
I agree with you. My guess is the same way he tried to get that girl in Lake Elsinore--he pointed a gun at her.

JLMcKenna83
04-24-2010, 11:14 AM
Will he have to confess all of this at his sentencing?

Nancy2441
04-26-2010, 07:16 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/I-Just-Want-to-Know-92097009.html

Amber Dubois' mother has some heartfelt questions for the man who admitted killing her daughter, according to a published report.

McGonigle laid out several questions for her daughter's murderer. Among others: Why did he choose Amber? Did he have previous contact with her? How did he get Amber into his vehicle?

Source: 'I Just Want to Know' | NBC San Diego

cloudajo
04-26-2010, 08:05 PM
April 24, 2010

Slain girl's mom asks: Why Amber?
Carrie McGonigle has questions for her daughter's admitted killer

Why Amber?

Her mother wants to know.

If Carrie McGonigle could talk to the man who admitted he abducted, raped and killed her daughter on Feb. 13, 2009, that would be her first question.

Why, John Albert Gardner III, did you choose Amber Dubois?

More questions would follow.

Were you watching my 14-year-old daughter? For how long? Just that drizzly Friday morning? Or had you spotted her, fixated on her, before the day you took her?

Did you make contact with Amber in the days or weeks before you did what you did to her? Talk to her or nod hello as she made her way down the street as she usually did at 7 a.m., as she walked to Escondido High School?

What did you say to my daughter, John Gardner?

And how did you get her into your vehicle? Trick her? Threaten her? Grab her and throw her in?

What did you do with her backpack, her cell phone? Was that you who called it long enough to check voicemail the day after you killed her?

Why, as you stood handcuffed and shackled in front of a judge to plead guilty, why did you look right at me for a few long seconds? How did you know who I was?

[snipped]

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_d88cb456-2128-55e9-b4f4-c4bc7f06aa50.html?mode=story

Nancy2441
04-26-2010, 09:37 PM
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2c0c03de-93cb-5005-977b-af71928f9a6f.html

An 11-year-old Rancho Bernardo girl said she saw sex offender John Albert Gardner III driving alongside her as she walked home two days before 17-year-old Chelsea King was reported missing, according to one of 10 search warrants unsealed Monday morning by an El Cajon judge.

In another search warrant, police said two San Diego Gas and Electric workers reported seeing a male and a female in the Pala area who resembled the description of Gardner and Amber Dubois, an Escondido teen that he admitted killing on Feb. 13, 2009.
The two workers made their report after police announced they had found 14-year-old Amber's remains in a remote area about 3 miles north of the Pala Indian Reservation on March 6, according to the documents. The workers said they spotted the pair in a silver Ford Focus.

Tink56
04-26-2010, 10:55 PM
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2c0c03de-93cb-5005-977b-af71928f9a6f.html

An 11-year-old Rancho Bernardo girl said she saw sex offender John Albert Gardner III driving alongside her as she walked home two days before 17-year-old Chelsea King was reported missing, according to one of 10 search warrants unsealed Monday morning by an El Cajon judge.

In another search warrant, police said two San Diego Gas and Electric workers reported seeing a male and a female in the Pala area who resembled the description of Gardner and Amber Dubois, an Escondido teen that he admitted killing on Feb. 13, 2009.
The two workers made their report after police announced they had found 14-year-old Amber's remains in a remote area about 3 miles north of the Pala Indian Reservation on March 6, according to the documents. The workers said they spotted the pair in a silver Ford Focus.


Another version of the story...just slightly less information, but more when the two are together...

The records also show that two San Diego Gas & Electric Co. workers saw people they identified as Gardner and his other known murder victim, 14-year-old Amber Dubois of Escondido, about 50 minutes after she was kidnapped in February 2009.
The two workers told Escondido police that they saw the pair outside a Silver Ford Focus that Gardner was driving at the time.
Gardner has admitted he raped and killed Amber within 90 minutes of abducting her.
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2c0c03de-93cb-5005-977b-af71928f9a6f.html

Nancy2441
04-26-2010, 11:25 PM
Here's the actual search warrant:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/news/documents/2010/04/26/sdge.pdf

Bottom of Page 10 to page 11 is the statements from the SDG&E workers.

Nancy2441
04-29-2010, 02:53 PM
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_e38505ff-ad42-59e5-957f-259ccd736496.html

"I think he is trying to get sympathy, playing the victim," McGonigle said. "But he's not a victim."

McGonigle said Gardner refused to give details of the crimes during the interview; he said he would only share those details with the family.
But, she said, Gardner did tell the station that the attack on her daughter had been a crime of opportunity, not one that had been planned.

K9Snoop
05-05-2010, 02:06 PM
[snipped from Feb 13, 2010 article]



I wonder how Gardner got Amber into his vehicle? Did he pull over, ask her for directions, then threaten her with a knife or gun?
Was the young male seen walking with/near Amber not related to her abduction or was it Gardner?
I wonder if any of Amber’s things found with/near her? IPod, cell phone, shoulder bag, valentine’s gifts, check for lamb, etc.?
Was it Gardner that turned her cell phone on briefly the next day or someone else who found it?

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/escondido/article_17edfcec-657a-5398-8295-4b1ada991f56.html

Other then the fact that Gardner knew where Amber's body was, there is not alot of info coming out about his connection.

-Is it possible that he is taking the fall or covering up for someone else? Especially since Escondido was unable to independently verifiy his guilt? After all since he is already going to prison for one murder why not admit to the second and take the heat off a buddy?

-Is EPD is willing to let it happen since it allows them to close out an open case? After all if a guy is willing to admit to the murder should EPD stand in his way?

-Even if Carrie mets with Gardner there is no guarantee that he will be forthcoming with details OR may know of some details if he heard about it from the actual murderer.

-Does any one know if Gardner has made a full and complete written confession in Amber's murder? Full and complete means that he has revealed all facts of the incident.

-Could he have been an accomplice in Amber's death which is why he knew where her body was located?

I'm just wondering if there another gunman out there on that grassy knoll????

K9Snoop
05-05-2010, 02:14 PM
http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/sdcounty/article_2c0c03de-93cb-5005-977b-af71928f9a6f.html

In another search warrant, police said two San Diego Gas and Electric workers reported seeing a male and a female in the Pala area who resembled the description of Gardner and Amber Dubois, an Escondido teen that he admitted killing on Feb. 13, 2009.
The two workers made their report after police announced they had found 14-year-old Amber's remains in a remote area about 3 miles north of the Pala Indian Reservation on March 6, according to the documents. The workers said they spotted the pair in a silver Ford Focus.

Why in the world did SDGE workers not come forward and reveal this info sooner of a possible sighting?

cloudajo
05-05-2010, 09:12 PM
Other then the fact that Gardner knew where Amber's body was, there is not alot of info coming out about his connection.

-Is it possible that he is taking the fall or covering up for someone else? Especially since Escondido was unable to independently verifiy his guilt? After all since he is already going to prison for one murder why not admit to the second and take the heat off a buddy?

-Is EPD is willing to let it happen since it allows them to close out an open case? After all if a guy is willing to admit to the murder should EPD stand in his way?

-Even if Carrie mets with Gardner there is no guarantee that he will be forthcoming with details OR may know of some details if he heard about it from the actual murderer.

-Does any one know if Gardner has made a full and complete written confession in Amber's murder? Full and complete means that he has revealed all facts of the incident.

-Could he have been an accomplice in Amber's death which is why he knew where her body was located?

I'm just wondering if there another gunman out there on that grassy knoll????

I had been considering an accomplice, but when I read about the two employees describing just one male and female matching the descriptions of Gardner and Amber, I changed my mind. That, plus Gardner seemed to be a loner in his stalking (reference new incident revealed).

Also, the employees came forward after seeing the new coverage of where sheriff's dept was searching for Amber's remains. They probably saw a pic of both Gardner and Amber on the news and made the connection. The warrant doesn't give specifics about what the employees saw, other than being in the same area near a silver Ford Focus at about 8AM. They probably didn't realize at the time what they were witness to.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/05/another-gardner-incident-police-revealed/

K9Snoop
05-06-2010, 08:10 AM
I had been considering an accomplice, but when I read about the two employees describing just one male and female matching the descriptions of Gardner and Amber, I changed my mind. That, plus Gardner seemed to be a loner in his stalking (reference new incident revealed).

Also, the employees came forward after seeing the new coverage of where sheriff's dept was searching for Amber's remains. They probably saw a pic of both Gardner and Amber on the news and made the connection. The warrant doesn't give specifics about what the employees saw, other than being in the same area near a silver Ford Focus at about 8AM. They probably didn't realize at the time what they were witness to.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/05/another-gardner-incident-police-revealed/

Its possible because alot of people do come forward after the guy is caught doing something heinous and saying "I always knew there was something weird about that guy..."

But all the reports have a "witness saw her walking toward Escondido High with a tall, slender, dark-complexioned young male" who has never been located or identified. Which is sure a long way from the Gardner description of a "white male in his late 30’s to early 40’s 5’11” tall with a stocky build with a large belly dark brown hair that was clean cut with medium spikes on top". So what happened between skinny dark young male and stocky white middle-aged man?

It just seems strange to me and makes me think that he had help.

cloudajo
05-08-2010, 09:02 AM
Its possible because alot of people do come forward after the guy is caught doing something heinous and saying "I always knew there was something weird about that guy..."

But all the reports have a "witness saw her walking toward Escondido High with a tall, slender, dark-complexioned young male" who has never been located or identified. Which is sure a long way from the Gardner description of a "white male in his late 30’s to early 40’s 5’11” tall with a stocky build with a large belly dark brown hair that was clean cut with medium spikes on top". So what happened between skinny dark young male and stocky white middle-aged man?

It just seems strange to me and makes me think that he had help.

I know what you mean and it's good to consider the possibility. But the early report described him as tall and slender, and then the later report described him as sort of doughy. It was drizzling, the witness was driving southbound, so coming up behind them - she probably only saw him for a second. I was thinking maybe it was Gardner or maybe some unrelated guy who didn't come forward.

jjenny
05-10-2010, 02:21 AM
Its possible because alot of people do come forward after the guy is caught doing something heinous and saying "I always knew there was something weird about that guy..."

But all the reports have a "witness saw her walking toward Escondido High with a tall, slender, dark-complexioned young male" who has never been located or identified. Which is sure a long way from the Gardner description of a "white male in his late 30’s to early 40’s 5’11” tall with a stocky build with a large belly dark brown hair that was clean cut with medium spikes on top". So what happened between skinny dark young male and stocky white middle-aged man?

It just seems strange to me and makes me think that he had help.

A lot of times eye-witness accounts aren't reliable.
For all I know the witness who thought she saw Amber with some boy was mistaken, and whoever this witness saw wasn't even Amber.
It's not Gardner's MO to have help so I very much doubt he had any help in Amber's case.

Nancy2441
05-11-2010, 07:34 PM
A lot of times eye-witness accounts aren't reliable.
For all I know the witness who thought she saw Amber with some boy was mistaken, and whoever this witness saw wasn't even Amber.
It's not Gardner's MO to have help so I very much doubt he had any help in Amber's case.

Yeah I agree. When I first heard about Gardner, especially that he was known to have teenagers at his house, I thought he could possibly have had someone helping him, another male high school student. But let's face it he's a huge guy, he doesn't need anyone to help him, especially if he threatened Amber with a weapon. I also read in one of the search warrants that they found duct tape or electric tape in one of his vehicles. I think the officer referred to it as a "rape kit".

Nancy2441
05-17-2010, 11:42 AM
According to Amber's mom on Good Morning America:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Amber-Was-Stuck-with-No-Place-to-Go-Mom-93931874.html

Amber took a different route that day to school. Carrie doesn't know why. Gardner cornered her on a fenced street. He told her he had a gun and a knife. He told her if she didn't get in the car it would be a lot worse for her.

SoCalSleuth
05-17-2010, 12:28 PM
I've always said that I didn't believe he took her on Broadway because it was way too busy a street not to be seen, and it would be hard for him to escape if he were seen abducting her. I never thought the alleged sightings of her by the parents were credible either--it was raining, the child's back was toward them, and they were driving on a busy street with construction going on which would have focused their attention more on their driving. I always wondered why the police found those two alleged sightings credible when, with all things considered, they shouldn't have been. Not that it would have made a difference in this case. I don't believe that JAG told Amber he had a knife and gun--I believe he showed them to her--just as he did with the girl in Lake Elsinore. Poor Amber, she must have been frightened to death. I hope this family can somehow find some peace in their lives.

Nancy2441
05-17-2010, 01:15 PM
I've always said that I didn't believe he took her on Broadway because it was way too busy a street not to be seen, and it would be hard for him to escape if he were seen abducting her. I never thought the alleged sightings of her by the parents were credible either--it was raining, the child's back was toward them, and they were driving on a busy street with construction going on which would have focused their. attention more on their driving. I always wondered why the police found those two alleged sightings credible when, with all things considered, they shouldn't have been. Not that it would have made a difference in this case. I don't believe that JAG told Amber he had a knife and gun--I believe he showed them to her--just as he did with the girl in Lake Elsinore. Poor Amber, she must have been frightened to death. I hope this family can somehow find some peace in their lives.

I totally agree. I felt the same way. I never believed the sightings. I'm sure with the weather that day many students were wearing black hoodies (Just like Amber was wearing). Especially with the rain. I don't think I could identify somone I know in the rain.

Poor Amber!!

Laece
05-17-2010, 01:32 PM
A silver Ford Focus? Well, then, why aren't we looking for Zenaida? :waitasec:

Nancy2441
05-19-2010, 11:39 AM
Amber's mom visits abduction site:

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12504492

fran
05-23-2010, 10:51 PM
From the news conference at the above link, it appears Gardner answered some questions that made Amber's mom feel a little better. It appears, IMHO, that Amber may have put up a bit of a fight. Her mom said she was proud of her and 'she was "her" daughter.' I took that to mean Amber did something she would have done herself.

One of the things that people can take away from this is for your children to NOT walk down streets where there isn't a safe-haven, ie a house or whatever to run to safety. The other thing is, IF someone threatens with a weapon, do NOT let them take you to a second location. I've always told my kids that.

FWIW, there was an attempted abduction close to me in National City last week. It was after school and a 13 yo had a guy grab her from behind and he had his arms wrapped around her neck, with a knife. She grabbed his hands and managed to escape. She was slightly cut from the knife. The first report I saw her say she didn't even realize at the time he had a knife.

Anyway, they caught him. He was a registered sex offender from a different area, he had his mom's car and had cut off his gps tracking device. :mad:

I don't think he'll be attacking any young girls for awhile. Hopefully, FOREVER!

JMHO
fran