PDA

View Full Version : NC - Kathy Taft NC School Board Member Murdered #5



Pages : [1] 2 3

Salem
04-21-2010, 10:42 PM
Please continue here.

Remember: no sleuthing of innocent victims of this tragedy. That means Kathy's family and friends and the family and friends of this perp.

Be respectful of each other in your postings.

Thanks!

Thread 4

Thread 3

Thread 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5008098#post5008098)

Thread 1


Friendly Reminders:

This is a Victim-friendly board. That means we show respect to the Victim and his/her family members and friends. Now that a perp has been identified, rumors and suspicions regarding the sister in this case will not be allowed.

Do not post full names (initials only) or outrageous and/or completely unsubstantiated claims. That does not mean you can not theorize - it means you must be respectful in your theories and they must be related to LE or main stream media information.

Rumors are rumors - no matter where they come from.

If you want to post as someone close to the family or with inside knowledge of the case, you MUST contact Tricia at: Tricia Griffith tgrif@xmission.com Send Tricia an email and let her know how you are connected.

Terms of Service can be found here: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community In this forum, you will find other useful tips and tricks for staying within the terms of service.

Also, all photos must give credit to the photographer/media outlet unless it is a personal, private photo, in which case, you need to state that it is your personal photo.

If you have any questions, please let me or one of the other moderators know and we will do our best to answer them for you.

Just the Fax
04-21-2010, 10:54 PM
The woman stated that she had filed previous charges of harassment and communicating threats including death threats.She wrote at one point he, "...made harassing phone calls and threatened to come and kill me with his father's gun."

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7399771

sloothseeker
04-21-2010, 11:01 PM
Governor of NC weighs in on Taft crime, interesting what she proposes...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7399034

Just the Fax
04-21-2010, 11:03 PM
"Williford's friends say he only got in trouble when he was drinking and that he had a drinking problem, recently falling off the wagon after trying to quit."

It may be a glimpse at a possible defense especially if the DNA evidence proves to be solid as sources say it is.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7397009

Looks like the 'hopeless alcoholic...too drunk to know any better' defense.
At least some seem to be justifying his bad behavior.

sloothseeker
04-21-2010, 11:10 PM
It may be a glimpse at a possible defense especially if the DNA evidence proves to be solid as sources say it is.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7397009

Looks like the 'hopeless alcoholic...too drunk to know any better' defense.
At least some seem to be justifying his bad behavior.

IMO - At least enough justification for defense to argue for life in prison and not death row

crocus
04-21-2010, 11:34 PM
"He also got a second burglary charge when he shattered the window of a north Raleigh house and crawled inside.
Williford's friends say he was simply drunk and thought he was at his rental home which looks very similar and is right next door."
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7397009


Riiiiiiiight. That's logical .......... shatter the window when you can't get in to your own place. :40__s:

Freak.

Just the Fax
04-22-2010, 08:44 AM
Ok, where is the search warrant for JW's apartment?
We should have heard one way or another....either sealed or the media would publish. I want to see the probable cause detail as well as what they removed from the residence.
==========================

Just heard the SW was not sealed....look for it soon.

Salem
04-22-2010, 08:56 PM
Bumping this up so everyone can find it. Looks like it has been a very busy day here in the Crimes section.

Salem

Googler
04-22-2010, 09:01 PM
Any connection to the Oct 17 disaster 2 hours north of Raleigh?

laces
04-22-2010, 09:26 PM
Any connection to the Oct 17 disaster 2 hours north of Raleigh?

If you are referring to the murder of Morgan Harrington, why not just say so?
Talk.

laces

Googler
04-22-2010, 09:32 PM
it is So sad -- for both women

laces
04-22-2010, 09:39 PM
Well, you are speaking about parallels...what parallels are you talking about? I don't see it.

One victim is a 20 year old, who was at a Metallica concert,
the other victim is a 62 year old, who was in a private residence.
One victim was already decomposed when found,
the other victim was alive in the hospital for three days.
One perpetrator is still at large,
and in the other case, the accused is in captivity.

I would be interested in seeing what parallels you are speaking of.:waitasec:

unravelingthemystery
04-22-2010, 09:43 PM
it is So sad -- for both women

What are your feelings on the 2 cases?? how do you feel they are similar?? did you ever meet JW or know him??

unravelingthemystery
04-22-2010, 09:45 PM
it is So sad -- for both women

& you are right it is extremely sad for both. but do you think there is a connection other than in both in NC & both deaths of women?

unravelingthemystery
04-22-2010, 09:47 PM
hmmm. interesting reading up on her & she vanished at a metallica rock concert. timing is interesting isnt it??

laces
04-22-2010, 09:55 PM
So, are you saying that JW was at the Metallica concert?

Googler
04-22-2010, 09:56 PM
Unraveler-- both weren't in NC.
Laces--MH was 20.
JW liked (according to Internet-- I knew no one)
heavy metal.
In the Va case, many people knew each other /
but no hints from
thousands of posts on findmorgan.com about who is the
perp.
JW would be outside the box.

unravelingthemystery
04-22-2010, 09:58 PM
It would be interesting to find out if JW attended the metallica concert. or anywhere near 15th st Grady during that time. googled her & found that she showed up missing at the metallica concert oct 17 2009 & her shirt was found outside an apt building at 15th St & Grady. & looks like her body was found on a farm in abermarle county. if you have any concrete suspicions about JW & connection w her, best you report it. if just a suspicion let us know that.

laces
04-22-2010, 10:03 PM
Yes, i had already corrected the mistaken age, thank you. Welcome to the forum. You're correct, it is a very sad situation ...both women had lots ahead of them...however, evil never wins, unless you let it. I have faith that mysteries are solvable.


"You meant it for evil, but God meant it for good."
laces

diphi
04-22-2010, 10:09 PM
I'm not seeing a possible connection from what I've read. Apparently, police believe it was someone local because of the tricky location she was found. Is JW from that area?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/morgan-harringtons-killer-knew-obstacles-farm-area/story?id=9749253

Googler
04-22-2010, 10:19 PM
Thank you for bumping up #5

aarrgghh
04-22-2010, 10:37 PM
waiting on the SW from JW's residence....the "drunkard defense" is pathetic but will probably come into play considering his past drug/alcohol convictions.

Salem
04-23-2010, 12:27 AM
Governor of NC weighs in on Taft crime, interesting what she proposes...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7399034

If the Governor does as she says - then Kathy's death won't have been in vain.

Salem

Salem
04-23-2010, 12:35 AM
Hi guys - I removed a couple of posts that referred to pm's. Discussing private messaging or emailing each other in the open forum is called "inviting" and is against TOS. If you want to send a private message or post on someone's page - just do it, don't talk about it.

Thanks,

Salem

sloothseeker
04-23-2010, 07:19 AM
If the Governor does as she says - then Kathy's death won't have been in vain.

Salem

Perdue's actions will have to speak louder than her words. Unfortunately DNA collection and reinstating DP comes to late for some crime victims. You are correct, perhaps this would mean KT did not die in vain.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 10:21 AM
I just got a copy of the SW for JW, but I didn't ask anyone if the D.A. had filed a motion to seal it. I'm going to confirm that before I list anything.

caryresident
04-23-2010, 10:25 AM
New Warrants released -

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/7473732/

caryresident
04-23-2010, 10:27 AM
The warrants are shown in this link

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7400498

Prancy
04-23-2010, 10:38 AM
I wasn't able to confirm that it wasn't sealed, but I just saw this on WRAL. I couldn't find the entire list there. I don't have a way to scan my copy right now. Maybe it will appear on WRAL soon.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 10:47 AM
What I find particularly interesting are the following: 2 pair of black dress shoes, (male or female?), 2 lap tops, knives and sheaf, spray paint and tubes of paint, 2 bottles of pills, bottle of oil, walking stick, hammer, and 30 pairs of panties.

I wonder if the dress shoes are the only ones he had besides the ones he had on when arrested.

I wonder if the pills were prescribed for him or another.

I wonder if the panties belonged to his wife or not. Did she live there with him?

Was it body oil or cooking oil?

What is the significance of the paint?

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 10:59 AM
What woman has 30 pairs of panties?
This is sounding more like the med student in Boston that took souvenirs.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 11:09 AM
What woman has 30 pairs of panties?
This is sounding more like the med student in Boston that took souvenirs.

Without saying more, I can understand that many panties. There are different styles, fabrics, sporty, silkiy, etc. It can add up. Hope they can identify to whom they belong. It listed his wife as the owner of the premises. So I guess she does live there.

CocoChanel
04-23-2010, 11:15 AM
What woman has 30 pairs of panties?
This is sounding more like the med student in Boston that took souvenirs.

....ummm...I do....is that really weird? :waitasec:
I didn't think it was outrageous until judged in comment above.

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 11:18 AM
What I find particularly interesting are the following: 2 pair of black dress shoes, (male or female?), 2 lap tops, knives and sheaf, spray paint and tubes of paint, 2 bottles of pills, bottle of oil, walking stick, hammer, and 30 pairs of panties.

I wonder if the dress shoes are the only ones he had besides the ones he had on when arrested.

I wonder if the pills were prescribed for him or another.

I wonder if the panties belonged to his wife or not. Did she live there with him?

Was it body oil or cooking oil?

What is the significance of the paint?

They said they wanted to look for prescriptions meds....sounds like KT's pain meds in the bottle were missing from her room as we suspected.

They said they wanted to look for an instrument that could have caused blunt force trauma.....sound like the weapon was not left at murder scene. Hammer perhaps?

The black leather gloves were likely used since it did not seem they had his prints. With 2 pair of shoes, perhaps they are trying to match the shoe prints left at the attempted burglary scene on Wayland Dr ? (if the shoes were woman's, I think they would have said "woman's dress shoes".

The large knife in the sheath may not have any significance. The cops seized a knife from Jason Young's car too and there was no evidence of any cuts or stabs on MY's body. I'm sure they wondered why he had pruning shears while living in an apartment.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 11:22 AM
Yeah, what do you do with pruning shears except prune shrubs?

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 11:23 AM
....ummm...I do....is that really weird? :waitasec:
I didn't think it was outrageous until judged in comment above.

Well CocoChanel, being a male, I can only guess. Not outrageous as you say, but that # seems to be high to me.
Notice they did not seize any other female garment. I doubt they would take undergarments from his wife's drawer and nothing else.

Maybe KT's panties were missing???

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 11:25 AM
Yeah, what do you do with pruning shears except prune shrubs?

Burglary tool?

CocoChanel
04-23-2010, 11:29 AM
Well CocoChanel, being a male, I can only guess. Not outrageous as you say, but that # seems to be high to me.
..... (respectfully snipped)

Thank you for that disclaimer JTF. That helps me understand ALOT. :doh:

Gville
04-23-2010, 11:49 AM
Well CocoChanel, being a male, I can only guess. Not outrageous as you say, but that # seems to be high to me.
Notice they did not seize any other female garment. I doubt they would take undergarments from his wife's drawer and nothing else.

Maybe KT's panties were missing???


They were not listed on the SW.

Noway
04-23-2010, 11:56 AM
They were not listed on the SW.

:waitasec: How do you know that KT's were not one of the 30 pair?

Salem
04-23-2010, 12:01 PM
I'm moving this thread to the Awaiting Trial forum. I will leave a redirect, so that everyone can find it easily.

Links to all the previous threads are in POST 1 of this thread.

Thanks,

Salem

Noway
04-23-2010, 12:03 PM
I wasn't able to confirm that it wasn't sealed, but I just saw this on WRAL. I couldn't find the entire list there. I don't have a way to scan my copy right now. Maybe it will appear on WRAL soon.

LOL
When my scanner was giving me fits, I took a photo of a page I needed to send to my insurance company and downloaded from my camera ... it worked just fine.

If you want to just do the parts you have that are not at the links ...

Gville
04-23-2010, 12:17 PM
:waitasec: How do you know that KT's were not one of the 30 pair?

Sorry, I was referring to the SW on Cartier Dr.

no1uknow
04-23-2010, 12:21 PM
His wife lived there with him. In fact, she still lives there.
JW and his wife had been doing some yard maintenance around the apartment complex. That may have been why he had pruning shears.

Noway
04-23-2010, 12:28 PM
What woman has 30 pairs of panties?
This is sounding more like the med student in Boston that took souvenirs.

I'm not going to divulge how many I have because it's irrelevant LOL ... but if they were his wife's I don't think they would be of interest. JMO

It appears his wife was there when the search was conducted (a copy was left with her) ... so I do wonder whether she indicated they were not hers.

ETA
Otherwise, taking 30 pair seems excessive. JMO

Noway
04-23-2010, 12:33 PM
His wife lived there with him. In fact, she still lives there.
JW and his wife had been doing some yard maintenance around the apartment complex. That may have been why he had pruning shears.

The pruning shears fit under #7 in the DESCRIPTION OF PROPERTY TO BE SEIZED (http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/docs/taftwarrants_042310.pdf) (p. 3) ... any items that could be used as weapons.

So they may well have used it for gardening but it still needed to be taken.

Noway
04-23-2010, 12:34 PM
If he brought a weapon with him, does that indicate premeditation?

ETA
And does the 'drunk and didn't mean to kill her' defense go down the tubes? Or did he intend to smash a window with it and did not have to?

Prancy
04-23-2010, 01:09 PM
If he brought a weapon with him, does that indicate premeditation?

ETA
And does the 'drunk and didn't mean to kill her' defense go down the tubes? Or did he intend to smash a window with it and did not have to?

I haven't looked at the statues lately, but I think that it would still be first degree murder by virtue of Felony Murder Rule, so that if someone is killed during the commission of a felony, it's first degree. Correct me if I'm wrong. So I don't think he had to have the intent to murder or if he was too drunk to intend to murder, then the felony murder rule would still apply. Question is was he too drunk to form the intent to rape or commit burglary? Hmmm.

CocoChanel
04-23-2010, 01:22 PM
I'm not going to divulge how many I have because it's irrelevant LOL ... but if they were his wife's I don't think they would be of interest. JMO

It appears his wife was there when the search was conducted (a copy was left with her) ... so I do wonder whether she indicated they were not hers.

ETA
Otherwise, taking 30 pair seems excessive. JMO

Thank YOU Noway for reminding me what's relevant. Newbie mistake of me to give waaaaay TMI! Yikes.....:blushing:

I'm thinking it would not have mattered WHAT JW's wife said during the execution of the search warrant. Would they not have seized anything they deemed relevant to the crime? Since it was known to be a sexual offense, several dozen pairs of women's underwear may certainly have prompted the need to further investigate the source of such items. Point is, there could be a logical and innocent explanation for those items being in the apartment.

Noway
04-23-2010, 01:24 PM
LOL Coco ... I just meant the discussion of MINE was irrelevant. LOL

Noway
04-23-2010, 01:35 PM
Maybe they thought 30 pair was excessive too ... you are right it would not matter whether she said they were hers or not.

If they are not hers ... I imagine she has a sick feeling in her stomach. More so than the one in mine.

crocus
04-23-2010, 01:41 PM
30 pair for one person doesn't seem outrageous to me.

But, were all 30 pairs found in the same place in the apt.? Maybe some were from a laundry basket, some from a drawer, and maybe, some in a tucked away spot.......like in a box or something hidden in the back of a closet?

Prancy
04-23-2010, 01:45 PM
I have a question about the AA meeting schedule. What is said there is supposed to be confidential. Can LE intrude to members to see what if anything he may have said there since the murder? Will the other members talk about it? I know it may violate some honor code, but it's not a legal privilege or anything.

CocoChanel
04-23-2010, 01:53 PM
LOL Coco ... I just meant the discussion of MINE was irrelevant. LOL

LOL But it applies to ME too! LOL

:silenced: on TMI from now on.....

Noway
04-23-2010, 02:07 PM
Hidden away would definitely raise a red flag to me ... as opposed to lingerie drawer, laundry basket.

Are there unsolved rapes in which panties were taken? And DNA did not match anyone in the system. Hmm.

Noway
04-23-2010, 02:10 PM
I mean why else would they take underwear that belonged to his wife -- unless he had given them as gifts? AND panties were missing from the crime scene?

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 02:33 PM
I mean why else would they take underwear that belonged to his wife -- unless he had given them as gifts? AND panties were missing from the crime scene?


Sounds like she was found w/o panties.
I had early on she was found nude and raped.
I dismissed it as a rumor....now I am thinking he took her panties and ripped the PJ's off and left them (they were in inventory at JG's house)

They probably took all panties they could find in the house...including his wife's

Prancy
04-23-2010, 02:52 PM
I have been wondering what the significance of the paint is. Could he have been sniffing the fumes? That's the only thing I can think of and if so why is that significant?

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 03:04 PM
I have been wondering what the significance of the paint is. Could he have been sniffing the fumes? That's the only thing I can think of and if so why is that significant?

Inhaling paint solvents maybe, but acrylic paint tubes?
Sounds like an artist paint set.

sloothseeker
04-23-2010, 03:24 PM
IMO - 30 pairs of panties aren't excessive unless they aren't JHF's OR no sign of briefs/boxers!!

JW search warrants add more to the bizareness than answer any questions.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 03:40 PM
I heard on the news that the defendant was spotted drinking in a bar in Raleigh two weeks after the murder. Does anyone know where this bar is. You can just give me a location and initial and I can probably figure it out.

sloothseeker
04-23-2010, 04:25 PM
I heard on the news that the defendant was spotted drinking in a bar in Raleigh two weeks after the murder. Does anyone know where this bar is. You can just give me a location and initial and I can probably figure it out.

Don't know if this is what you were thinking (see link). THere was also an interview with Jim Shires about JW's behavior when he hung out at Berkeley Cafe when he played with The Authority.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/video?id=7392361&pid=7393281

katsmom
04-23-2010, 05:38 PM
Without saying more, I can understand that many panties. There are different styles, fabrics, sporty, silkiy, etc. It can add up. Hope they can identify to whom they belong. It listed his wife as the owner of the premises. So I guess she does live there.

Just a point of clarification - they may list her that way, but if you look at the the Wake County real estate website, JF is not listed as owner. A couple owns all four units, and JF's name is not listed.

sloothseeker
04-23-2010, 05:41 PM
Just a point of clarification - they may list her that way, but if you look at the the Wake County real estate website, JF is not listed as owner. A couple owns all four units, and JF's name is not listed.

JW and JF were renting. Are there any official documents showing JW as married. I only saw once where JF said JW was her husband when talking to a neighbor.

Noway
04-23-2010, 06:21 PM
I only saw a marriage record for JAW, not the JKW who was arrested. At least in NC.

Don't know how could the ancestor search site I used is ...


ETA

Found a JKW.

For $30 I can find out whether the JKW they found is the one I want. LOL. I don't care that much.

aarrgghh
04-23-2010, 06:55 PM
I heard on the news that the defendant was spotted drinking in a bar in Raleigh two weeks after the murder. Does anyone know where this bar is. You can just give me a location and initial and I can probably figure it out.

On Hillsborough Street I think...

Just the Fax
04-23-2010, 07:52 PM
His wife lived there with him. In fact, she still lives there.
JW and his wife had been doing some yard maintenance around the apartment complex. That may have been why he had pruning shears.

Perhaps, but "pruning shears" are not the same thing as a "limb pruner".
Having such a tool inside a rented apartment seems odd, even if they were helping spruce up the landscape.

http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Images/DB_Detail/_78737_151449.jpg

no1uknow
04-23-2010, 08:59 PM
Each of the apartments has a small storage room off of the back lower deck. JW had been using a push mower, too. I can't say for sure but I imagine both of those items were probably stored there.

diphi
04-23-2010, 09:55 PM
Hidden away would definitely raise a red flag to me ... as opposed to lingerie drawer, laundry basket.

Are there unsolved rapes in which panties were taken? And DNA did not match anyone in the system. Hmm.

BBM

Lol - 30 pair in a laundry basket seems excessive to me. :laugh:

Sorry - couldn't help it.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 09:55 PM
Some rentals require that you do your own yard maintenance or I guess it's possible he was making some money doing yard work here and there.

diphi
04-23-2010, 10:09 PM
[QUOTE=Just the Fax;5107408]Perhaps, but "pruning shears" are not the same thing as a "limb pruner".
Having such a tool inside a rented apartment seems odd, even if they were helping spruce up the landscape.

++++++++++++++++++++++++
A limb pruner does seem a little strange for a renter to have. But, maybe he borrowed it from someone, like his parents, just to trim a little around the apt.

Just thinking back on the my rental days, I don't think I would spend my money on landscaping tools unless I had to.

The paint tubes, though...that's interesting...did he fancy himself an artist as well as a musician?

diphi
04-23-2010, 10:14 PM
On Hillsborough Street I think...

Well, that narrows it down....

laces
04-23-2010, 10:15 PM
I don't know what ETA means...i figured out BBM means blackberry messenger....

katsmom
04-23-2010, 10:15 PM
Remember police were interviewing landscapers in the Cartier area? Maybe he did do some landscaping for JG's neighbors? Or maybe those pruning shears were JG's shears that perhaps had gone missing (before the murder)-- now found. I'm thinking too much.

no1uknow
04-23-2010, 10:39 PM
Landscaping isn't a requirement but maybe since JW was unemployed, he was getting a discount on rent. My guess is that the landlord provided him with certain landscaping tools. JW had only been doing the landscaping recently. In the past, the landlord has paid people who don't reside at the location.
JF is an artist of sorts. Maybe JW is, too. But I know she is.

jmt707
04-23-2010, 10:50 PM
Maybe LE asked about landscapers because they had noticed that someone had cut back something near windows - which could have helped a person possibly peep in. Maybe there were clippings like that around. I have no idea because I didn't go back and look at pictures of the home to see if there seemed to be bushes around windows. Just a thought.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 11:00 PM
I'm now wondering if there might have been some paint traces on the floor or bed. It could have been brought in on the shoes or clothes are the intruder and left behind.

no1uknow
04-23-2010, 11:18 PM
The Berkeley Cafe is downtown, several miles away. However, when detectives questioned me (as they did everyone in this neighborhood) they asked if I'd ever been to the Glenwood Grill, which located in the same small shopping center as the Harris Teeter that is just a hop, skip and a jump from the home where KT was found. The Glenwood Grill is the closest bar, by a long shot. The next nearest bar is at Five Points, which is considerably further away in distance.

Prancy
04-23-2010, 11:59 PM
I did read about the owner of The Berkely talking about JW coming in there to play and when he dated a waitress who worked there, but that was some time ago. The story I heard this week said that he was reported to have been frequenting a local bar two weeks after KT's murder. They did not say which one it was nor did they infer it was The Berkely. I was just curious.

Noway
04-24-2010, 12:32 AM
I don't know what ETA means...i figured out BBM means blackberry messenger....

ETA: Edited to add

BBM: Bold(ed) by me ... at least this is what it means when I use it!

Noway
04-24-2010, 12:47 AM
Somewhere on Websleuths I think there is a list of acronyms but I just searched for it and couldn't find it.

I used to have a link because when I started posting here I didn't have a clue what people were saying. KWIM? :angel:

LOL ... I could not resist. Now I'm leaving ...

laces
04-24-2010, 08:32 AM
Now you know i have no idea what kwim means!
keep well in mind; keep wearing indigo mukluks; kept well inside me......

i'm another one who can think too much, but i am trying in my old age to pare it down a bit.

laces
04-24-2010, 08:46 AM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8968&stc=1&d=1272112981

i was imagining this kind of pruner which i have used before for pretty substantial cutting. it reminds me of what is used to cut off padlocks. i was thinking it could remove an eyebolt ....but i'm just thinking too much. can't you see the smoke rising...?

but then again, it would not fit in a messenger bag, if that's relevant.
(image of limb lopper and description of tool can be found at Frostproof.com)

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 09:08 AM
Even though a knife was apparently not used in the attack, the cops took 2 from the home anyway. The hammer is interesting. Unless the attack was premeditated, I can't see him entering the house with a hammer...or finding one quickly in the dark house to use.
As seen from other cases, many of the items taken with SW's end up being totally irrelevant to the case.

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 09:10 AM
Landscaping isn't a requirement but maybe since JW was unemployed, he was getting a discount on rent. My guess is that the landlord provided him with certain landscaping tools. JW had only been doing the landscaping recently. In the past, the landlord has paid people who don't reside at the location.
JF is an artist of sorts. Maybe JW is, too. But I know she is.

no1uknow
You seem to know a good bit about the couple.
Do you actually know them, or did you just hear these details from other neighbors?

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 09:20 AM
Maybe LE asked about landscapers because they had noticed that someone had cut back something near windows - which could have helped a person possibly peep in. Maybe there were clippings like that around. I have no idea because I didn't go back and look at pictures of the home to see if there seemed to be bushes around windows. Just a thought.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s216/alive695/01B26B00.jpg

http://cdn.abclocal.go.com/images/wtvd/cms_exf_2007/_video_wn_images/wtvd600_taft_murder_crime_scene_011_031010.jpg

Another thought on the landscapers.....
They could have been around the neighborhood that afternoon when KT came to the house. Maybe the cops were thinking one returned that night to act on what appeared to be an easy rape?

Googler
04-24-2010, 09:25 AM
And where did JKW live prior to last fall?

diphi
04-24-2010, 09:56 AM
Do we have an idea whether JW entered the property from the street-side or from the path that runs along the front deck-side? If he came from the path, would he have crossed the wooden footbridge?

diphi
04-24-2010, 10:07 AM
Here's a link to WS lingo. It's in The Jury Room.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84535

diphi
04-24-2010, 10:15 AM
Even though a knife was apparently not used in the attack, the cops took 2 from the home anyway. The hammer is interesting. Unless the attack was premeditated, I can't see him entering the house with a hammer...or finding one quickly in the dark house to use.
As seen from other cases, many of the items taken with SW's end up being totally irrelevant to the case.

I can't envision the hammer, either. I'm still thinking the lamp.

diphi
04-24-2010, 11:28 AM
Now you know i have no idea what kwim means!
keep well in mind; keep wearing indigo mukluks; kept well inside me......

i'm another one who can think too much, but i am trying in my old age to pare it down a bit.

Lol, laces. Mukluks - I had to look that one up. :waitasec::waitasec:

http://www.mukluks.com/

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Williford was booked into Wake County jail but moved to Central Prison in Raleigh on April 20.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/24/451980/taft-suspects-dna-taken-day-of.html#ixzz0m2Gacwho

Hmmm.
That usually means suicidal or in need of medical care

diphi
04-24-2010, 12:41 PM
Williford was booked into Wake County jail but moved to Central Prison in Raleigh on April 20.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/24/451980/taft-suspects-dna-taken-day-of.html#ixzz0m2Gacwho

Hmmm.
That usually means suicidal or in need of medical care

Why do you say that? Are they usually kept in Wake County Jail until trial and not moved? If it's a matter of DTs seems like the jail could handle that. Maybe the jail is just way over crowded.

I really don't know anything about what happens to them after they go to jail.

sloothseeker
04-24-2010, 01:00 PM
Williford was booked into Wake County jail but moved to Central Prison in Raleigh on April 20.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/24/451980/taft-suspects-dna-taken-day-of.html#ixzz0m2Gacwho

Hmmm.
That usually means suicidal or in need of medical care

It's also done for security reasons as well - and this is a high profile case in some political circles.

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 01:47 PM
Why do you say that? Are they usually kept in Wake County Jail until trial and not moved? If it's a matter of DTs seems like the jail could handle that. Maybe the jail is just way over crowded.

I really don't know anything about what happens to them after they go to jail.

You normally always stay in WC jail until trial.
Brad Cooper and Jason Young are both right there....both very high profile, + JY murdered his unborn baby too.

Drew Planten was moved to Central prison for "suicide watch" and to address his mental health needs...it is very rare otherwise.

Drew Planten was depressed and despondeant after his arrest and moved to Central Prison from wake county jail because it was stated, "The county jail was not equipped to handle such a prisoner. "

Planten later killed himself, despite suicide watch.

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 05:31 PM
http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Images/DB_Detail/_78737_151449.jpg

http://www.checkthishouse.com/wp-content/uploads/rear-door-and-stairs-next-to-the-slider-are-within-5-from-the-power-cables.jpg

Wonder why the cops wanted to take a limb trimmer?

sloothseeker
04-24-2010, 05:42 PM
[IMG]

Wonder why the cops wanted to take a limb trimmer?

OMG, would this not light up your life if you used this to cut electrical lines?

I have never thought about using mine for nothing but trimming limbs or getting toys out of the trees.

laces
04-24-2010, 06:01 PM
Why do you say that? Are they usually kept in Wake County Jail until trial and not moved? If it's a matter of DTs seems like the jail could handle that. Maybe the jail is just way over crowded.

I really don't know anything about what happens to them after they go to jail.

Delirium Tremens: Usually happens with alcoholics who are daily drinkers, and that can be beer or hard liquor, and it happens usually after 48 hours from the last drink. Some of the manifestations are: tremor of the hands, an exaggerated startle reflex, profuse sweating, confusion, agitation, restlessness,
and from there it goes downhill into auditory or visual hallucinations. These patients can develop seizures if they are not medically managed well, and most who try to go through this "cold turkey" end up coming to me for a visit. There are quite meticulous protocols these days at some hospitals and the patient is "graded" quite frequently on his symptom manifestations. In addition to drugs for sedation, pain and anxiety, these patients may be restrained physically by means of a vest, wrist, or ankle restraints, or a combination. It is a very challenging patient to care for, but one of my favorite types of nursing, because with the right protocols in place, improvement is seen and these patients tend to be among the nicest and most appreciative when they are in their right mind. However, it is a serious condition, and often these patients spiral downward into respiratory problems along with the other problems they have which may include acute kidney failure, hypertension, etc. In the intensive care setting, these patients may do well, depending on the damage already done to the liver. Bleeding from esophageal varices is one of the serious side effects we see, along with hepatic encephalopathy. You would be surprised at how much work and care is given to someone with this condition, however, i have to say, i enjoy it.:Banane10:

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 08:40 PM
OMG, would this not light up your life if you used this to cut electrical lines?

I have never thought about using mine for nothing but trimming limbs or getting toys out of the trees.

Actually, should be safe.
Most poles are fiberglass and the rope handle is plastic.
Yea, I know it's silly to think he would lug that around the neighborhood.
Cops probably took it cause it was odd to have in an apartment.

Wonder why they took his bass guitar?
Reckon it could be stolen from another burglary?

sloothseeker
04-24-2010, 08:52 PM
Wonder why they took his bass guitar?
Reckon it could be stolen from another burglary?

Maybe from JG's house that night or from a previous b/e since the house had been "vacant" for a while.

JTF - do you think JKW would have returned to the crime scene after EMS left and before LE arrived perhaps 1.5 hour timeframe?

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 09:00 PM
Maybe from JG's house that night or from a previous b/e since the house had been "vacant" for a while.

JTF - do you think JKW would have returned to the crime scene after EMS left and before LE arrived perhaps 1.5 hour timeframe?

Who knows?
This guy apparently had no fear.
After being busted for B&E and crapping on the floor, he does it again a couple of years later...this time while the house was occupied.

susubaby
04-24-2010, 10:55 PM
Who knows?
This guy apparently had no fear.
After being busted for B&E and crapping on the floor, he does it again a couple of years later...this time while the house was occupied.

From the bust the few years later...I am assuming you are speaking of the b&e with the g'ma and g'daughter in the home....does anyone know what he did in that house? All I have heard was that he broke in and that no one was harmed...but nothing else.... did he take anything? eat anything? etc...:waitasec:

Just the Fax
04-24-2010, 11:11 PM
From the bust the few years later...I am assuming you are speaking of the b&e with the g'ma and g'daughter in the home....does anyone know what he did in that house? All I have heard was that he broke in and that no one was harmed...but nothing else.... did he take anything? eat anything? etc...:waitasec:

I seem to recall Ed Crump saying that the total charge was a reduction, as it originally included 'assault on a female'.
I'm thinking the granddaughter was the 'focus' of his B&E.
===========

"sources say the 2001 break-in may have originally been a felony involving a female victim."

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:9YkLI7OZzFIJ:abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story%3Fsection%3Dnews/local%26id%3D7392671+jason+williford+involving+a+w oman+charges&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Maja
04-25-2010, 12:00 AM
IMHO: JW will not see trial due to "insanity" plea.

I was at an AA meeting one day and someone said, "Good gracious, I've done and said some horrible things while drunk. Thank God I never killed anyone." Another responded, "How do you know you didn't?"

no1uknow
04-25-2010, 05:13 AM
no1uknow
You seem to know a good bit about the couple.
Do you actually know them, or did you just hear these details from other neighbors?

Just the Fax, I am reluctant to give out a lot of information. In order to protect my own identity and the privacy of JF, who I feel incredibly bad for, I don't want to say too much. I have met and spoken to both she and JW on several occasions in the past few months. Suffice it to say I live uncomfortably close by. But to say I "know" either of them would be huge stretch.
I find the information and theories posted here interesting. I'll participate in this thread when I have useful information that I know to be true to impart. Otherwise, I'm just another person who would really like to know (perhaps more than most, given the circumstances and proximity) what exactly happened.

susubaby
04-25-2010, 08:54 AM
no1- I totally respect & understand that. We are all just so curious about JW bc I guess on the surface, he looks like just your average joe. But, you never know what your gut feeling will tell you when you are talking to someone. Maybe he gives off a creepy vibe. If you feel comfortable- will you tell us what he was like when you talked to him? Did he seem like just a regular guy?

Just the Fax
04-25-2010, 11:11 AM
"sources say the 2001 break-in may have originally been a felony involving a female victim."

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us
================================================== ========

More on the post above.
A felony involving a female would be one of these- (assault / battery is a misdemeanor).

1- 1st or 2nd degree rape
2- 1st or 2nd degree sexual offense

First Degree Sexual Offense (14-27.4)

A person is guilty of a sexual offense in the first degree if the person engages in sexual act (other than vaginal intercourse):

With a victim who is a child under the age of 13 years and the defendant is at least 12 years old and is at least four years older than the victim; or
With another person by force and against the will of the other person, and:
a. Employs or displays a dangerous or deadly weapon or an article which the other person ... believes to be ... [a] weapon; or
b. Inflicts serious personal injury on the victim or other ...; or
c. The person commits the offense aided ... by one or more ...
Classification: Class B1 Felony (life imprisonment)



Second Degree Sexual Offense (14-27.5)

A person is guilty of a sexual offense in the second degree if the person engages in a sexual act (other than vaginal intercourse) with another ...

By force and against the will of the other person; or
Who is mentally defective, mentally incapacitated ... and the person per forming the act knows or should reasonably know that the other person in mentally defective, mentally incapacitated ...
Classification: Class C Felony (40 years or a fine or both)

Prancy
04-25-2010, 12:13 PM
I seem to recall Ed Crump saying that the total charge was a reduction, as it originally included 'assault on a female'.
I'm thinking the granddaughter was the 'focus' of his B&E.
===========

"sources say the 2001 break-in may have originally been a felony involving a female victim."

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:9YkLI7OZzFIJ:abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story%3Fsection%3Dnews/local%26id%3D7392671+jason+williford+involving+a+w oman+charges&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

It could be, however, the part about a female victim, could have been that the fact their were people in the house, when it was broken into, met the requirement for First Degree Burglary if it was a "occupied" residence.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0014 (NC Statutes) Did they say for sure an assault was involved? I feel sure Crump would have looked a the file and surmised what it was reduced from.

Prancy
04-25-2010, 12:33 PM
Just the Fax, I am reluctant to give out a lot of information. In order to protect my own identity and the privacy of JF, who I feel incredibly bad for, I don't want to say too much. I have met and spoken to both she and JW on several occasions in the past few months. Suffice it to say I live uncomfortably close by. But to say I "know" either of them would be huge stretch.
I find the information and theories posted here interesting. I'll participate in this thread when I have useful information that I know to be true to impart. Otherwise, I'm just another person who would really like to know (perhaps more than most, given the circumstances and proximity) what exactly happened.


I do feel for this woman's situation. People never really know what others are going through behind closed doors. I can't say this is her situation, but something that happened to me.

Years ago I was in a relationship with someone who was a serious alcohol and drug absuser, however, they kept it pretty well hidden, except to close friends. Most of his colleagues, family, and even neighbors, had NO idea of the severity and how it influenced his behavior. Being his GF, I was the closest to him. The first year I knew him, he played a nice guy character. He was great and won my trust and love. The second year, the true self came out. I eventually became to see how truly violent, cruel, devious and bizarre he was. It was a hard pill to swallow. The few friends who also caught a glimpse of the evil twin, as they called it, thought he was only a monster when drinking, but I saw how he was also a monster when sober. It's hard to fathom that you have grown close to a person with such bizarre and unpredictable behavior. Eventually, I ran for my life and ended it.

While most thought he was a super nice guy, a few knew better. If LE would have come to me and asked me about what he was capable of, I would have not have ruled ANYTHING out. There is nothing that would have surprised me. That is very sad and I feel for anyone in that situation.

sloothseeker
04-25-2010, 12:53 PM
This crime/case is beginning to demonstrate all that is wrong with the judicial system. From all the previous posts and public records research by WSers, it is evident that laws were broken and thanks to good attorneys (I assume) the crimes were overlooked or reduced to lesser offenses. The judicial system failed the public with JW and look at the results. It should be no surprise that the same will happen again with JW when/if this case does to trial. Unfortunately folks, we are all victims here.

pinkorchid
04-25-2010, 02:17 PM
Sloothseeker, I totally agree that there is a problem with repeat offenders and the justice system is to blame for being a revolving door. Personally, I think an adult who breaks and enters and defecates in someone's home should be in a mental institution, but that's just me. If JW had been incarcerated for his other crimes he wouldn't have been able to kill (allegedly) Kathy Taft. Some people should not be walking the streets. The public should not have to literally beg the courts to keep criminals at bay. Crime is out of control in this country as far as I'm concerned.

susubaby
04-25-2010, 03:49 PM
100% agreed. JW has obviously been "building up" to something like this happening for years, looking at his past history of behavior. The court system and criminal justice system is so far out of whack it is scary and almost makes the average person want to be paranoid. What will it take to make the laws in this country change? I just learned that a sexual predator of children moved 1100 ft away (I guess once you are in the system you have to move 1000 ft away?) from my child's elementary school. He was accused of attempted kidnapping in another county. So, you mean to tell me he just HAPPENED to find a little ole apt. so close to the elementary school he just couldn't pass it up? I don't think so. He's probably there, as close as he could be, to watch children. This is absurd! When are things going to change? He should be in jail! (sorry for the aside).... (Oh, the attempted kidnapping was from another elementary school playground...just an fyi)....

Prancy
04-25-2010, 03:58 PM
It's difficult to say what happens in certain cases. You know what they say about hindsight. There can be technical problems with a charge that would result in evidence being inadmissable,the possiblity that every element of the crime could not be proven, witnesses who for whatever reason are uncooperative or unavailable. Some move away, resist, can't remember etc. The DA has to examine the strenght of his case and make a judgment call. I will say that I think the Wake Co prosecutors are very keen on strong prosecution. They don't just do reduce or dismiss things just to make it go away. There are compelling reasons IMO. That's my experience and no, I don't work with them.

sloothseeker
04-25-2010, 04:17 PM
The DA has to examine the strenght of his case and make a judgment call. I will say that I think the Wake Co prosecutors are very keen on strong prosecution. They don't just do reduce or dismiss things just to make it go away. There are compelling reasons IMO. That's my experience and no, I don't work with them.


I agree but just look at the public court records of just those in this one case - DH, JG and JW - it's not an isolated incident.

Just the Fax
04-25-2010, 04:18 PM
It could be, however, the part about a female victim, could have been that the fact their were people in the house, when it was broken into, met the requirement for First Degree Burglary if it was a "occupied" residence.
http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0014 (NC Statutes) Did they say for sure an assault was involved? I feel sure Crump would have looked a the file and surmised what it was reduced from.

No, the fact the home was occupied made it 1st dgree burglary.
Ed's report said he was originally charged with a felony involving a female victim and that charge was apparently dropped....2 different things.

"Assault on a female" is a misdemeanor.
If it was originally charged as a felony involving a female victim, it would have to be sexual.

As I said before, I trust WTVD's direct sources. IMO this was verified before it was broadcast.

Prancy
04-25-2010, 04:30 PM
I agree but just look at the public court records of just those in this one case - DH, JG and JW - it's not an isolated incident.


I'm not familiar with the other individuals prior cases except it seems there were some DWI's. Were their cases in Wake Co? Other counties that tend to be less populated and more rural, tend to be more flexible in reducing and dismissing, IMO.
If you have a link or post with the records of the other two, please list. I'll see if I can locate them in the meantime.

sloothseeker
04-25-2010, 05:42 PM
I'm not familiar with the other individuals prior cases except it seems there were some DWI's. Were their cases in Wake Co? Other counties that tend to be less populated and more rural, tend to be more flexible in reducing and dismissing, IMO.
If you have a link or post with the records of the other two, please list. I'll see if I can locate them in the meantime.

Threads 3 and 4 discussed much of DH and JG's priors. That's my point - the entire judicial system is an injustice, regardless of the county.

Just the Fax
04-25-2010, 06:18 PM
Threads 3 and 4 discussed much of DH and JG's priors. That's my point - the entire judicial system is an injustice, regardless of the county.

Not sure I would say "injustice"...at least not total.
The # of DWI 'dismissals' varies greatly by county.
For example, the coastal counties have a much higher dismissal rate than the very conservative mountain counties.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/09/25/3613836/2007DWIcharges.pdf

sloothseeker
04-25-2010, 06:50 PM
Not sure I would say "injustice"...at least not total.

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/09/25/3613836/2007DWIcharges.pdf

Thanks, JTF. I'll work the percentages up in my free time to compare counties, just because that's how my mind works!

no1uknow
04-26-2010, 12:28 AM
No, the fact the home was occupied made it 1st dgree burglary.
Ed's report said he was originally charged with a felony involving a female victim and that charge was apparently dropped....2 different things.

"Assault on a female" is a misdemeanor.
If it was originally charged as a felony involving a female victim, it would have to be sexual.

As I said before, I trust WTVD's direct sources. IMO this was verified before it was broadcast.

I was shown the police report from this crime (which took place several years ago, in an entirely different but equally-as-affluent part of Raleigh.) I don't recall anything about an assault in the report. That doesn't mean it did or didn't happen - I'm just recounting what I actually saw from a photocopy of the report. JW wrapped a t-shirt around his fist, busted a window and entered the home. The crime took place between 3:00 am and 3:30 am. Police were called and JW was arrested after being found wandering around the area, drunk, not far from the location of the break in. It was explained to me that since the house was occupied, the crime was considered a felony; a very serious crime but it was pleaded down.

Just the Fax
04-26-2010, 08:12 AM
I was shown the police report from this crime (which took place several years ago, in an entirely different but equally-as-affluent part of Raleigh.) I don't recall anything about an assault in the report. That doesn't mean it did or didn't happen - I'm just recounting what I actually saw from a photocopy of the report. JW wrapped a t-shirt around his fist, busted a window and entered the home. The crime took place between 3:00 am and 3:30 am. Police were called and JW was arrested after being found wandering around the area, drunk, not far from the location of the break in. It was explained to me that since the house was occupied, the crime was considered a felony; a very serious crime but it was pleaded down.

He was in fact convicted of felony B&E for this 1991 incident.
So, was this the one where he was so drunk, he thought he was getting into his own house that looked similar?

no1uknow
04-26-2010, 11:43 AM
Sorry, I don't recall the date. It was the break-in of a home where two females were asleep inside.

Just the Fax
04-26-2010, 02:40 PM
Sorry, I don't recall the date. It was the break-in of a home where two females were asleep inside.

10-4
So, as far as you know, he did not personally encounter either of the females asleep inside?

Interesting MO
He entered JG's home in the very early hours with 2 sleeping females inside.
Sounds like 3 were very lucky.

aarrgghh
04-26-2010, 06:24 PM
IMO: My experience that the judicial system is sooo overcrowded that LE cannot handle most "small time" cases. They simply dont have the resources. I have seen so much stuff just dismissed or a slight slap on the wrist for multiple B&E felonies...resititution is set but RARELY paid...so victim is still left hanging.
Probabtion is a nice theory but is a band-aid on a very complex wound. The answer isnt necessarily more money in programs...that would not have saved KT IMO. Personal responsibility/accountability is the only solution but sadly is severely lacking.

no1uknow
04-26-2010, 11:53 PM
10-4
So, as far as you know, he did not personally encounter either of the females asleep inside?

Interesting MO
He entered JG's home in the very early hours with 2 sleeping females inside.
Sounds like 3 were very lucky.

As far as I know, which is only what I read on the photocopy of what I assume was a police report, he didn't attack anyone. I don't know whether either of the residents saw him/encountered him in any way after he entered the home. One of the residents called the police, he took off and was later found wandering around the area, drunk. That's about all I know other than he broke in by breaking a window.

no1uknow
04-27-2010, 12:20 AM
no1- I totally respect & understand that. We are all just so curious about JW bc I guess on the surface, he looks like just your average joe. But, you never know what your gut feeling will tell you when you are talking to someone. Maybe he gives off a creepy vibe. If you feel comfortable- will you tell us what he was like when you talked to him? Did he seem like just a regular guy?

As they say, hindsight is 20/20. When I think of the encounters I had with JW since the murder, I can remember things that creep me out. But that's all in retrospect and I imagine my view of him since he was arrested is much darker than it was beforehand.
Basically, he was quiet, polite and very much kept to himself.

susubaby
04-28-2010, 03:27 PM
Does anyone have any sort of idea how long the process will now be until this case goes to trial, if it does? It seems like it takes years....I think JY and BC are still sitting in jail at this point....and they have been arrainged for quite some time now.

Prancy
04-29-2010, 11:51 AM
Does anyone have any sort of idea how long the process will now be until this case goes to trial, if it does? It seems like it takes years....I think JY and BC are still sitting in jail at this point....and they have been arrainged for quite some time now.

I have never really kept up with how long it takes, but I would imagine at least one year. No one has mentioned psychological evaluations. I would think he would have those done in light of some of the bizarre buzz about some aspects of the case.

They may want to get their own DNA expert once they are produced their discovery. That will take more time.

His team may contest the validity of the search warrant, so that could involved months of time. The day they released the SW of JW's apt., WTVD reported that there were problems with the SW based on what some local attorneys had reported to them.

I think there was a post here that said JW's court appointed attorney in Greenville was good friends with the victim's family. I'm not sure how that would pan out. Even if JW says he's okay with it, if he is convicted, he could turn around and claim ineffective counsel at his trial and say it was because of that family friendship. Why did they pick someone from Greenville do you think?

caryresident
04-29-2010, 02:24 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7511314/

Prancy
04-29-2010, 03:51 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7511314/


I can't seem to locate the actual autopsy report. Have you seen it anywhere?

caryresident
04-29-2010, 04:14 PM
No Prancy. I have not seen it either.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 04:15 PM
wtvd link states a little more but still no actual autopsy report posted.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7413663

Noway
04-29-2010, 04:21 PM
More articles

Autopsy: Taft suffered head wounds

RALEIGH -- Kathy Taft, the state school board member found fatally injured last month, was struck multiple times in the head by a heavy blunt object, according to a state medical examiner's report released today.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/29/459551/autopsy-taft-suffered-head-wounds.html

Taft autopsy shows head injury
The head wound that killed Taft was right next the area where a plastic surgeon made an incision behind her left ear.

The autopsy shows that Taft had a facelift and other surgery just before she died. The medical examiner lists the cause of death as blunt head trauma. The autopsy also confirms Taft was sexually assaulted.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7413663&status=ok

* * * * * * * *
I've looked for the autopsy report but did not find ...

Noway
04-29-2010, 04:25 PM
The comments under the NO article is where I found the link to the ABC article. It was revised between the comments made in the NO Comments section and me finding it.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 04:27 PM
The only thing new is that it states DH checked on her b/n 7:30 and 8 am. If this is correct, why the 911 call 1 1/2 hours later?

Noway
04-29-2010, 04:39 PM
If the family asked that the autopsy report not be released to the public, would that request be honored?

Noway
04-29-2010, 04:44 PM
The only thing new is that it states DH checked on her b/n 7:30 and 8 am. If this is correct, why the 911 call 1 1/2 hours later?

It makes no sense to me.



Some time between 7:30 a.m. and 8 a.m. on March 6, according to the report, Holton checked on Taft again and found her "unresponsive, with obvious bleeding from the head. The bed sheets and her garments were in disarray, according to the report.

Read more: http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/29/459551/autopsy-taft-suffered-head-wounds.html#ixzz0mWXhmVe1

Prancy
04-29-2010, 04:55 PM
If the family asked that the autopsy report not be released to the public, would that request be honored?


I don't think so. I requested and received one on a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago. It's a matter of public record, so I don't think the family even knows a request has been made for it.

They will email you some of it and then mail you some parts. It only takes about a day or two.

Apparently there was no motion to seal it, because the press have it. I wonder why they have not made it available to the public.

Prancy
04-29-2010, 05:04 PM
More articles

Autopsy: Taft suffered head wounds

RALEIGH -- Kathy Taft, the state school board member found fatally injured last month, was struck multiple times in the head by a heavy blunt object, according to a state medical examiner's report released today.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/04/29/459551/autopsy-taft-suffered-head-wounds.html

Taft autopsy shows head injury
The head wound that killed Taft was right next the area where a plastic surgeon made an incision behind her left ear.

The autopsy shows that Taft had a facelift and other surgery just before she died. The medical examiner lists the cause of death as blunt head trauma. The autopsy also confirms Taft was sexually assaulted.
http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7413663&status=ok

* * * * * * * *
I've looked for the autopsy report but did not find ...

The News and Observer article is really shocking. The times for when she was checked on are different than previously reported. Very confusing. Did you read the Comments after the N&O article?

I'm not sure what to make of it. Apparently much more surgery was done on KT than previously believed. I really hope the state has an air tight case here.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 05:09 PM
WTVD will air an interview with DH at 6 pm where she explains why she didn't hear anything. The 5 pm report states 3 blows to the head and that KT had ragged nails indicating she struggled with the attacker.
"extensive cosmetic surgery" to quote ed crump.

now rumored to include breast augmentation.

Prancy
04-29-2010, 05:15 PM
WTVD will air an interview with DH at 6 pm where she explains why she didn't hear anything. The 5 pm report states 3 blows to the head and that KT had ragged nails indicating she struggled with the attacker.
"extensive cosmetic surgery" to quote ed crump.

now rumored to include breast augmentation.


I guess these are the interviews that were done before JW's arrest. This will be interesting.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 05:50 PM
I guess these are the interviews that were done before JW's arrest. This will be interesting.

you are probably right. I had assume it was from today but that's just good marketing. I'll watch and see.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 06:03 PM
DH said she never left the house but took medicine for bad sinus headache that night

I'll post the link when it's available.

Prancy
04-29-2010, 06:13 PM
DH said she never left the house but took medicine for bad sinus headache that night

I'll post the link when it's available.


Will you please post a link. I was unable to locate it on the WTVD site.

Is it part of the interviews she gave standing out in a yard with her back to the camera? They advertised at the time that she did a series of interviews. I wondered why they have held on to all but the one they played that night.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 06:38 PM
Will you please post a link. I was unable to locate it on the WTVD site.

Is it part of the interviews she gave standing out in a yard with her back to the camera? They advertised at the time that she did a series of interviews. I wondered why they have held on to all but the one they played that night.

still not posted. it was about 5 minutes into the 6 pm broadcast. It did not show DH or her being interviewed but was a written statement - perhaps from the 11 page autopsy report. I'll keep checking.

diphi
04-29-2010, 06:40 PM
Where is the autopsy report?

ETA: I'm seeing several contradictions in the media stories and our understanding up to this point.

sloothseeker
04-29-2010, 07:26 PM
here's the WTVD 6:00 pm report, LIke others, where is the autospy report???

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=7413663

Topsail Girl
04-29-2010, 07:38 PM
I want to know the same and also where is JTF??

Noway
04-30-2010, 02:04 AM
I don't think so. I requested and received one on a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago. It's a matter of public record, so I don't think the family even knows a request has been made for it.

They will email you some of it and then mail you some parts. It only takes about a day or two.

Apparently there was no motion to seal it, because the press have it. I wonder why they have not made it available to the public.

I was thinking more that the family asked the media not to release it.

Thanks to all of you keeping an eye out for it though!

wheaten
04-30-2010, 11:27 AM
autopsy report link:
http://news14.com/triangle-news-30-content/headlines/625201/medical-examiner-releases-documents-in-taft-murder

Prancy
04-30-2010, 12:11 PM
autopsy report link:
http://news14.com/triangle-news-30-content/headlines/625201/medical-examiner-releases-documents-in-taft-murder


What are your thoughts?

Prancy
04-30-2010, 12:34 PM
Why was it reported that she had surgery on her neck?

sloothseeker
04-30-2010, 02:54 PM
My Thoughts

what a sad, sad ending for such a wonderful person. IMO after reading the autospy - sounds like she fought her attacker due to the injuries on arms and fingernails.
But nothing heard outside of the bedroom?

Also, an arm band with an alias - does that mean from the hospital or from the plastic surgeon's office or some medical jargon I don't understand.

Was the surgery - eyes, face and breasts?

Track292008
04-30-2010, 03:40 PM
My Thoughts

what a sad, sad ending for such a wonderful person. IMO after reading the autospy - sounds like she fought her attacker due to the injuries on arms and fingernails.
But nothing heard outside of the bedroom?

Also, an arm band with an alias - does that mean from the hospital or from the plastic surgeon's office or some medical jargon I don't understand.

Was the surgery - eyes, face and breasts?

Re: the arm band: I expect that it was attached at the hospital where the surgery was performed and that the alias was intended to ensure her privacy; I have gathered that privacy was very important to her, particularly in the matter of "improvements" to her appearance. JMO.

wheaten
04-30-2010, 03:57 PM
I expect the arm band was attached at the hospital in Raleigh when she was admitted after the attack -- alias was for her protection.

Prancy
04-30-2010, 04:13 PM
I think it was also done at Wake Med for her protection. I have a friend who was attacked by a relative and she was at Wake Med under an alias for her protection.

Apparently, the time line in the autopsy does not line up with the 911 tapes. I went back and listened to the tapes. I'm still not clear on where the neck surgery came from.

I know this may sound pretty silly of me, but is the autopsy report saying that she suffered trauma from being raped or attempted rape or that she was hit in that area with an object?

wheaten
04-30-2010, 04:23 PM
Prancy, I wondered the same thing - it didn't seem clear to me, either. Was she assaulted in that area with the same weapon that was used on her head? Assaulted with a weapon instead of or in addition to being raped?

News14 said that some content had been excluded from the autopsy report they posted. That might clarify the question if it is ever made public.

jmt707
04-30-2010, 05:31 PM
Why would they check her stomach contents? I mean she lived for (I think) three more days. Wouldn't her digestion have taken care of those things?

sloothseeker
04-30-2010, 05:39 PM
Why would they check her stomach contents? I mean she lived for (I think) three more days. Wouldn't her digestion have taken care of those things?

Don't know about that but IMO she was brain dead with the 3rd strike to the head, behind the ear.

diphi
04-30-2010, 07:06 PM
I think it was also done at Wake Med for her protection. I have a friend who was attacked by a relative and she was at Wake Med under an alias for her protection.

Apparently, the time line in the autopsy does not line up with the 911 tapes. I went back and listened to the tapes. I'm still not clear on where the neck surgery came from.

I know this may sound pretty silly of me, but is the autopsy report saying that she suffered trauma from being raped or attempted rape or that she was hit in that area with an object?

I don't think it is silly at all. From the report it seems like they are saying she was hit in that area. But, that is different from saying she was assaulted due to agressive intercourse/rape. It's not clear and I can't help but wonder whether JW's dna was found inside her vaginal cavity or very near it...or...I don't know...

ETA: If the sexual assault was not due to intercourse/rape, then that opens up the possibility that someone other than a man was responsible. I sure hope LE has the dna right...

diphi
04-30-2010, 07:08 PM
Why would they check her stomach contents? I mean she lived for (I think) three more days. Wouldn't her digestion have taken care of those things?


Probably standard procedure

diphi
04-30-2010, 07:09 PM
I still think it was the lamp...

diphi
04-30-2010, 07:23 PM
Help me understand...With so much surgery why would someone be sent home the same day? Is that standard?

diphi
04-30-2010, 07:27 PM
The autopsy report helps explain DH's difficulty in explaining KT's surgery to 911. Several procedures.

Just the Fax
04-30-2010, 07:38 PM
I don't think it is silly at all. From the report it seems like they are saying she was hit in that area. But, that is different from saying she was assaulted due to agressive intercourse/rape. It's not clear and I can't help but wonder whether JW's dna was found inside her vaginal cavity or very near it...or...I don't know...

ETA: If the sexual assault was not due to intercourse/rape, then that opens up the possibility that someone other than a man was responsible. I sure hope LE has the dna right...

diphi...JW did have intercourse and it was "rape".
It is stated as fact in the arrest warrant.
For that to be determined as fact, he must have deposited his semen in her vagina...confirmed by a DNA match.

Just the Fax
04-30-2010, 07:43 PM
I still think it was the lamp...

"heavy blunt object".
Not sure a lamp base could pulverize her skull.
Sounds more like a hammer to me.

diphi
04-30-2010, 07:45 PM
diphi...JW did have intercourse and it was "rape".
It is stated as fact in the arrest warrant.
For that to be determined as fact, he must have deposited his semen in her vagina...confirmed by a DNA match.

Ok. Thanks. I'll go back and read the arrest warrant again.

Glad to hear from you.

aarrgghh
04-30-2010, 08:06 PM
I have never really kept up with how long it takes, but I would imagine at least one year. No one has mentioned psychological evaluations. I would think he would have those done in light of some of the bizarre buzz about some aspects of the case.

They may want to get their own DNA expert once they are produced their discovery. That will take more time.

His team may contest the validity of the search warrant, so that could involved months of time. The day they released the SW of JW's apt., WTVD reported that there were problems with the SW based on what some local attorneys had reported to them.

I think there was a post here that said JW's court appointed attorney in Greenville was good friends with the victim's family. I'm not sure how that would pan out. Even if JW says he's okay with it, if he is convicted, he could turn around and claim ineffective counsel at his trial and say it was because of that family friendship. Why did they pick someone from Greenville do you think?

I think JW's choices are somewhat limited for representation bc of financial situation. Buddy Conner is from Greenville and knew Taft family. Greenville is a small town and EVERYONE knows TT and KT. TT and Buddy were both democrats and served in the Pitt Co. Bar Association at some point. They lived in the same neighborhood too. With that being said Buddy is a true professional and would NEVER jepordize his case...EVER. He is part of a group of attorneys that represent poor defendents in capital murder cases. It is his lifes work. A real bleeding heart. He has attended seminars all over the country studying capital murder defenses. If JW was my kid I would want Buddy for representation (I believe everyone deserves a good defense)
My concern is the same that was in mentioned in a news report about PC in obtaining the cigarette etc. Like I said before Buddy was the attorney that was responsible for discovering the bunk DNA in the Duke Lacross case. He is held in high regard in the legal community in NC and is NO JOKE. The defense will have all the experts etc necessary if this thing goes to trial. My guess it will get a plea if evidence proves solid on PC etc.

aarrgghh
04-30-2010, 08:09 PM
Help me understand...With so much surgery why would someone be sent home the same day? Is that standard?
yes...the hospital is the WORST place to be. Outpatient procedures are the norm and she had no complications or other health concerns.

diphi
04-30-2010, 08:15 PM
The arrest warrant indicates probable cause that he did have vaginal intercourse with KT. I would assume probable cause would be the dna from a rape kit?

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2010/04/19/7445405/20100419142339408.pdf

ETA:I'm not a lawyer but I can be picky and hard-headed like one...Is probable cause the same as fact?

diphi
04-30-2010, 08:47 PM
"heavy blunt object".
Not sure a lamp base could pulverize her skull.
Sounds more like a hammer to me.

Possibly. The autopsy report indicates a gaping wound 4" long and 2.5" wide. If a hammer was used it would have to have been used more than once to make a wound 4" long.

A lamp base could make a 4" long wound with one blow. I suppose it would depend on what the base was made of. I'm sitting here looking at my metal based lamp...I think I could seriously hurt someone with it if I wanted to...yes, I think I could crush their skull with it...

aarrgghh
04-30-2010, 09:10 PM
The arrest warrant indicates probable cause that he did have vaginal intercourse with KT. I would assume probable cause would be the dna from a rape kit?

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2010/04/19/7445405/20100419142339408.pdf

ETA:I'm not a lawyer but I can be picky and hard-headed like one...Is probable cause the same as fact?

I am very picky too! I am no legal expert either...but my question is how PC is obtained and surviellance observations that translates into solid evidence and the custody transfer of samples etc. If that is messed up then it could possibly lead to problems on his DNA collection after formal arrest etc. Im not sure how that works from suspect to evidence to arrest. Even if they had dna from rape kit...its how they connect it to JW...PC cigarette butt collection etc...that im not clear on

crocus
05-01-2010, 12:31 AM
Did he get into the house through an unlocked door? I'm not clear on that.

I know DH said something about hearing footsteps and then opening the door (?) and calling out if anyone was out there? Whew....that takes guts. If I had heard something, I would be peeking out and looking out every door and window under cover of darkness with a cell phone in my hand ready to dial 911......

diphi
05-01-2010, 02:21 AM
Still thinking about the hammer vs lamp as a murder weapon. IIRC, the search warrant included a lamp assembly, indicating the lamp stand had been broken. That tells me the lamp certainly wasn't metal; possibly ceramic.

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 09:31 AM
The arrest warrant indicates probable cause that he did have vaginal intercourse with KT. I would assume probable cause would be the dna from a rape kit?

http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2010/04/19/7445405/20100419142339408.pdf

ETA:I'm not a lawyer but I can be picky and hard-headed like one...Is probable cause the same as fact?

Well, "probable cause" is the term always used for an arrest or indictment.
The official "proof" comes at trial.
The only way to know JW penetrated her vagina with his penis would be his semen was obviously left inside KT. No doubt they have his DNA from this rape kit...IMO

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 09:33 AM
Did he get into the house through an unlocked door? I'm not clear on that.

I know DH said something about hearing footsteps and then opening the door (?) and calling out if anyone was out there? Whew....that takes guts. If I had heard something, I would be peeking out and looking out every door and window under cover of darkness with a cell phone in my hand ready to dial 911......

DH had said she forgot to lock the door before falling asleep on the couch.
She locked the door for the first time after hearing the noise in the night.

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 10:16 AM
Possibly. The autopsy report indicates a gaping wound 4" long and 2.5" wide. If a hammer was used it would have to have been used more than once to make a wound 4" long.

A lamp base could make a 4" long wound with one blow. I suppose it would depend on what the base was made of. I'm sitting here looking at my metal based lamp...I think I could seriously hurt someone with it if I wanted to...yes, I think I could crush their skull with it...




"The fracture was primarily in the center of the scalp defect, and there was marked depression of multiple comminuted fragments of skull.
Bone fragments were obtained from WakeMed pathology and consisted of some 22 pieces of bone in a "bone curettings" labelled container in alcohol. They were removed and pieced together. Following same it is noted that they
represent a 4" x 2" crescent shaped portion of the left parietal and temporal bones with a complex fracture pattern
================================================== ====

This devastating wound was a 'depressed' fracture in the center of the 4X2 crushed area of the skull.

Depressed skull fracture
"Depressed skull fractures, as shown in the image below, result from a high-energy direct blow to a small surface area of the skull with a blunt object such as a baseball bat or hammer. Comminution of fragments starts from the point of maximum impact and spreads centrifugally"

http://img.medscape.com/pi/emed/ckb/neurosurgery/247017-248108-4158tn.jpg

Depressed Fracture– a fracture caused by force applied in a ‘focussed’ area e.g. by a hammer. The outer and inner tables of the skull are driven inwards, often causing damage to the brain or its coverings.

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/head-injury/skull-fracture/

Prancy
05-01-2010, 11:22 AM
It's really chilling to think of someone striking another that way while they are lying in their bed asleep. It's difficult to comprehend. I guess it's possible she was hit during the rape, since she had wragged fingernails. I believe those were derived during the attack. No way someone would take the trouble to paint their toe nails and not file their finger nails and leave them wragged.

Of course, as someone posted earlier, maybe the DNA they contend that matches JW came from skin cells found underneath her fignernails and is not in the form of semen or it could be semen and skin cells. THat would be incredible!

What do you make of the time lines as stated in the autopsy when KT was checked on in the A.M. The only thing I can figure is that hospital staff put in their notes it was 7:00-8:00 when in fact it was 9:30, right before the 911 call. Maybe DH didn't look at the time when she called 911 and when she got to the hospital gave approximate times of what time she thought it was when she checked on KT and called 911. That's all I can figure.

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 01:01 PM
What do you make of the time lines as stated in the autopsy when KT was checked on in the A.M. The only thing I can figure is that hospital staff put in their notes it was 7:00-8:00 when in fact it was 9:30, right before the 911 call. Maybe DH didn't look at the time when she called 911 and when she got to the hospital gave approximate times of what time she thought it was when she checked on KT and called 911. That's all I can figure.

That would make sense but unfortunately nothing about this crime makes any sense, thusfar!

My thoughts are on the head injuries from whatever the weapon was. IMO - the blows would have been to the face or top of head if they were facing each other. In trying to understand the autospy report, it reads to me that the fatal blow was from behind since it was just behind the ear. Weigh in for me JTF - you seem to understand this medical jargon.

Prancy
05-01-2010, 01:47 PM
That would make sense but unfortunately nothing about this crime makes any sense, thusfar!

My thoughts are on the head injuries from whatever the weapon was. IMO - the blows would have been to the face or top of head if they were facing each other. In trying to understand the autospy report, it reads to me that the fatal blow was from behind since it was just behind the ear. Weigh in for me JTF - you seem to understand this medical jargon.


If the attacker assaulted her from behind and the injury was on her left side of the head, then the attacker most likely was left handed. I'm having trouble envisoning the sequence of events.

Prancy
05-01-2010, 02:21 PM
I was thinking more since my post above and now wonder, if the attack came from behind, then how did she get the ragged fingernails? I guess she could have reached behind her to attempt to scratch, but that would have been impeded by the sore muscles in her upper body from the previous surgery.

TruthBTold
05-01-2010, 03:02 PM
I can't figure out why a perp enters a house with two sleeping women and decides to attack the one that is defenseless-why was he not concerned that DH would wake up? Why didn't he attack DH?

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 03:03 PM
I was thinking more since my post above and now wonder, if the attack came from behind, then how did she get the ragged fingernails? I guess she could have reached behind her to attempt to scratch, but that would have been impeded by the sore muscles in her upper body from the previous surgery.

I imagine the fingernails dug into his back at some point during the sexual assualt which i guess was face to face.

In trying to figure out the deadly head injury - would KT been sitting up or standing instead of in the expected prone position? IMO the blow would have been to the side of the head. However, with JW's height I guess anything is possible. I don't think KT was too big (130 lbs) that it would have been much of a struggle especially in a medicated state. IMO it wasnt much of a stuggle since nothing was heard outside the bedroom.

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 03:07 PM
I can't figure out why a perp enters a house with two sleeping women and decides to attack the one that is defenseless-why was he not concerned that DH would wake up? Why didn't he attack DH?

Useless he was unaware there were 2 females in the house since there was only 1 car in the driveway and DH never wokeup during KT's attack.

I can't figure out why he had to kill KT but then again, i don't think like a person who would commit this type of crime.

TruthBTold
05-01-2010, 03:11 PM
KT would have had to be sleeping on her back with a breast augmentation and facelift-DH found her on her stomach as we heard DH turn KT over
on the 911 tape. So it makes sense that there was a struggle and possibly the rape before the deadly blow.

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 03:12 PM
If the attacker assaulted her from behind and the injury was on her left side of the head, then the attacker most likely was left handed. I'm having trouble envisoning the sequence of events.

Perhaps attacker struck with a back handed blow. I would think punching in the face would occur instead of blow to the head. guess it will all come out if there is a trial.

is it me, or do WSers think the media has died down on this. Never saw where WRAL or WTVD posted the actual autospy report.

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 03:15 PM
KT would have had to be sleeping on her back with a breast augmentation and facelift-DH found her on her stomach as we heard DH turn KT over
on the 911 tape. So it makes sense that there was a struggle and possibly the rape before the deadly blow.

Good point but did DH actually find KT on her stomach or was that just standard instructions from 911? I'll go back to reread the 911 call.

ETA -

IMO DH found her on her back or maybe side based on her description to 911 at the beginning of the call -- "blood on her face" "eyes black" "foaming at the mouth"

TruthBTold
05-01-2010, 03:31 PM
I think I was imagining her on her stomach with her head turned to one side-as DH was hesitant to turn her on her back-but you are right-she could have been on her side. I was wondering why the dispatcher did not ask DH what position KT was in-she tells her to turn her on her back-how did the dispatcher know that KT was not already lying face up on her back?

Prancy
05-01-2010, 04:59 PM
The autopsy report link is upthread. There isn't a toxicology report yet.

Yes, if KT was approached by the attacker while in bed she would have been on her back, with her upper body elevated on pillows. This is why I can't understand that when in the 911 tape, the 911 operator tells DH to put KT on her back and DH acts shocked, like On her back? She says it as if it is very bizarre request. I can't figure out why. Regardless of what position KT was in, why was placing her on her back such a bizarre request. What about KT's body or position made placing her on her back so outrageous?

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 05:16 PM
The autopsy report link is upthread. There isn't a toxicology report yet.

Yes, if KT was approached by the attacker while in bed she would have been on her back, with her upper body elevated on pillows. This is why I can't understand that when in the 911 tape, the 911 operator tells DH to put KT on her back and DH acts shocked, like On her back? She says it as if it is very bizarre request. I can't figure out why. Regardless of what position KT was in, why was placing her on her back such a bizarre request. What about KT's body or position made placing her on her back so outrageous?

DH does state it as a question which has seemed odd to me too. Perhaps KT was still propped up per dr orders and if DH was with KT at plastic surgeon and dr's orders were not to "lie flat" that would explain DH's bizarre response?

ruben321
05-01-2010, 06:47 PM
Regarding the autopsy report: the vaginal vault was unremarkable, which means nothing unusual. There was brusing in areas outside of the vaginal vault but not inside.
Anyone have thoughts?

ruben321
05-01-2010, 06:54 PM
Also, I wouldn't take sinus, cold or any other kind of medicine that "knocks you out" if I was entrusted to care for someone who had significant reconstructive surgery. Yes, breast augmentation and a facelift is way more than minor surgery.
I've had a few surgeries myself and I had someone who checked on me every few minutes. Also, my bedroom door was left open so they could hear me call for them if I needed something.

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 07:07 PM
Regarding the autopsy report: the vaginal vault was unremarkable, which means nothing unusual. There was brusing in areas outside of the vaginal vault but not inside.
Anyone have thoughts?
Howdy ruben.
Not sure how much damage a penis can do once inserted into a vagina forcefully.:waitasec:

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Also, I wouldn't take sinus, cold or any other kind of medicine that "knocks you out" if I was entrusted to care for someone who had significant reconstructive surgery. Yes, breast augmentation and a facelift is way more than minor surgery.
I've had a few surgeries myself and I had someone who checked on me every few minutes. Also, my bedroom door was left open so they could hear me call for them if I needed something.

Was it "cold meds" or something a bit sinister that "knocked her out" ????

ruben321
05-01-2010, 07:14 PM
Howdy ruben.
Not sure how much damage a penis can do once inserted into a vagina forcefully.:waitasec:

Hello. I was talking more about the brusing that was made in the area because it seems an object may have also been used because of the references made to the area between the vaginal & anal area.

ruben321
05-01-2010, 07:19 PM
Well, she said sinus medicine. How can you take care of someone if you take medicine that knocks you out? Any news if drinking took place in the house? At a bar?

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 07:30 PM
Hello. I was talking more about the brusing that was made in the area because it seems an object may have also been used because of the references made to the area between the vaginal & anal area.

JW, like most all rapists, must have a devious mental illness of some sort?
Attacking and mutilating female sexual organs is beyond sicko.

Just the Fax
05-01-2010, 07:34 PM
Well, she said sinus medicine. How can you take care of someone if you take medicine that knocks you out? Any news if drinking took place in the house? At a bar?

We know for a fact there were 2 beers consumed.
After seeing D, I suspect she is addicted to more than alcohol.
She is a major flake...MOO



------not bashing the victim's family, just an obvious observation after seeing media video and reading quoted accounts from D....MOO

diphi
05-01-2010, 09:30 PM
Howdy ruben.
Not sure how much damage a penis can do once inserted into a vagina forcefully.:waitasec:

So...if her vagina was unremarkable...does that mean they could not confirm it had been penetrated based on observations? To determine that they would have gotten a dna sample from inside of her and made the connection?

I'm going to suggest that a woman 62 years old does not have sex on a regular basis, especially if she doesn't have a boyfriend she sees all the time. So...to me...seems like evidence of sexual intercourse would be remarkable in a woman like that. Seems like there would be some evidence of tearing or something. Just sayin....

ETA: On reflection, I can understand that the interior vaginal vault may be unremarkable. But it does seem like the the ME might, at least briefly, discuss evidence of penetration on the outside of the vagina.

diphi
05-01-2010, 09:34 PM
Did he hit her before or after?

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 09:43 PM
Did he hit her before or after?

IMO - before - based on the ragged nails and the fact the ME determined the 3rd blow was fatal. By fatal, I mean - brain dead.

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 09:45 PM
For some reason, I think JW returned to the scene of the crime once EMS left and that might explain the baggies. I just cannt picture Kt and DH sitting around drinking beer and doing drugs, especially with KT's medical procedures. Nor can I imagine JW took time to do whatever drugs before committing the crime. I would think time would be a factor.

ruben321
05-01-2010, 09:51 PM
Autopsy reports blunt force vaginal trauma. From what I'm told, blunt force doesn't usually come from penile penetration.
Oh my word....soooo many ?'s

wheaten
05-01-2010, 09:52 PM
don't see him coming back to do drugs. thinking that IF he is involved with baggie corners (big if) - others equally suspect - maybe kt surprised him, walking in on it...

diphi
05-01-2010, 10:04 PM
For some reason, I think JW returned to the scene of the crime once EMS left and that might explain the baggies. I just cannt picture Kt and DH sitting around drinking beer and doing drugs, especially with KT's medical procedures. Nor can I imagine JW took time to do whatever drugs before committing the crime. I would think time would be a factor.

IDK, but that made me think of something from a long time ago. Someone I know was raped. She was asleep after having gone out and having a couple drinks - she did not hear anything. The rapist got in through an unlocked back door (she thought it was locked) and spent some time there before he actually attacked her. He left about 5 cigarette butts in the toilet - apparently he actually thought about what he was going to do or what his next move was.

He was never found.

So...you just never know what someone might do...

wheaten
05-01-2010, 10:07 PM
diphi, you're right -- you can't make the irrational rational.

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 10:26 PM
diphi, you're right -- you can't make the irrational rational.

AMEN and this whole thing is irrational!

I could understand if KT was there by herself but with DH as well -unless JW wasnt aware of that.

Prancy
05-01-2010, 10:29 PM
Perhaps, the vaginal trauma was from the attacker trying to rape her while she was resisting...thus the bruising in that area. This would have provided her the opportunity to scratch him and to make her nails ragged. Because she is resisting, he then strikes her to put her into submission. She is knocked out and he then completes the rape, no longer with resistence and therefore no further signs of resistence. This is assuming she is on her back. If that is the case, why wouldn't there be bruising on her inner thighs?

diphi
05-01-2010, 10:35 PM
Was the lamp broken as she tried to defend herself? Was it knocked off the table or grabbed by the attacker to force submission?

Prancy
05-01-2010, 10:35 PM
For those who were looking for the actual autopsy report. The link is in the blue box.

http://news14.com/triangle-news-30-content/headlines/625201/medical-examiner-releases-documents-in-taft-murder

wheaten
05-01-2010, 10:42 PM
Was the lamp broken as she tried to defend herself? Was it knocked off the table or grabbed by the attacker to force submission?

the lamp is an interesting part of this. if it was in fact a weapon, was it the one that the perp used on kt or was it something she grabbed to use on the perp in self defense?

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 10:50 PM
the lamp is an interesting part of this. if it was in fact a weapon, was it the one that the perp used on kt or was it something she grabbed to use on the perp in self defense?

odd that SW only listed lamp assembly unless that were to include broken lamp pieces if ceramic or perhaps a metal lamp.

another thought - wonder if DH or even EMS would notice a lamp to have blood on it or maybe the intruder took murder weapon with him.

wheaten
05-01-2010, 10:59 PM
[QUOTE=sloothseeker;5137147]wonder if DH or even EMS would notice a lamp to have blood on it or maybe the intruder took murder weapon with him.
Today 10:42 PM
wheaten Quote:

if there's blood "everywhere everywhere" probably not

sloothseeker
05-01-2010, 11:05 PM
[QUOTE=sloothseeker;5137147]wonder if DH or even EMS would notice a lamp to have blood on it or maybe the intruder took murder weapon with him.
Today 10:42 PM
wheaten Quote:

if there's blood "everywhere everywhere" probably not

True but you would think EMS would recognize the extent of KT's injuries or the room being in disarray and suspect a crime scene. Obviously not though...

diphi
05-01-2010, 11:16 PM
Perhaps attacker struck with a back handed blow. I would think punching in the face would occur instead of blow to the head. guess it will all come out if there is a trial.

is it me, or do WSers think the media has died down on this. Never saw where WRAL or WTVD posted the actual autospy report.

BBM

So far WRAL hasn't. They have posted other, more sensitve info before in other cases. I'm very disappointed in them at this point...

Just the Fax
05-02-2010, 09:48 AM
So...if her vagina was unremarkable...does that mean they could not confirm it had been penetrated based on observations? To determine that they would have gotten a dna sample from inside of her and made the connection?

I'm going to suggest that a woman 62 years old does not have sex on a regular basis, especially if she doesn't have a boyfriend she sees all the time. So...to me...seems like evidence of sexual intercourse would be remarkable in a woman like that. Seems like there would be some evidence of tearing or something. Just sayin....

ETA: On reflection, I can understand that the interior vaginal vault may be unremarkable. But it does seem like the the ME might, at least briefly, discuss evidence of penetration on the outside of the vagina.

Of course, we have no idea about the details of KT's sex life. Getting a boob job and face lift tells me she was very aware of her 'sex appeal'. The fact that the cops said they have PC to believe he had "vaginal intercourse", tells me there was evidence of such an act in the rape kit performed in the hospital, 4 days before the autopsy.

Just the Fax
05-02-2010, 09:51 AM
Autopsy reports blunt force vaginal trauma. From what I'm told, blunt force doesn't usually come from penile penetration.
Oh my word....soooo many ?'s

"blunt force" could be from his hand or fist, not necessarily a weapon.

ruben321
05-02-2010, 10:00 AM
"blunt force" could be from his hand or fist, not necessarily a weapon.

Good Morning JTF. You're right.

Just the Fax
05-02-2010, 10:15 AM
odd that SW only listed lamp assembly unless that were to include broken lamp pieces if ceramic or perhaps a metal lamp.

another thought - wonder if DH or even EMS would notice a lamp to have blood on it or maybe the intruder took murder weapon with him.

The biggest question I still have is did he enter the intention of raping KT or was it presented as sudden opportunity and he acted? If he did not plan to encounter anyone in the home, he likely would not carry a weapon in with him (bat or perhaps a hammer). In the SW of his apartment, the cops told the judge they wanted to seize "blunt force instruments and any and all other weapons. Any item or items that could be used as a weapon to inflict blunt force trauma". This tells me they did not find the murder weapon in JG's home.
Perhaps a ceramic lamp fell off the bedside table and broke? Maybe EMS and D thought she struggled alone after experiencing severe complications from major plastic surgery?

So what was the "heavy blunt object" used to pulverize her skull and produce a "depressed fracture" severe enough to cause brain death?

ruben321
05-02-2010, 10:21 AM
The biggest question I still have is did he enter the intention of raping KT or was it presented as sudden opportunity and he acted? If he did not plan to encounter anyone in the home, he likely would not carry a weapon in with him (bat or perhaps a hammer). In the SW of his apartment, the cops told the judge they wanted to seize "blunt force instruments and any and all other weapons. Any item or items that could be used as a weapon to inflict blunt force trauma". This tells me they did not find the murder weapon in JG's home.
Perhaps a ceramic lamp fell off the bedside table and broke? Maybe EMS and D thought she struggled alone after experiencing severe complications from major plastic surgery?

So what was the "heavy blunt object" used to pulverize her skull and produce a "depressed fracture" severe enough to cause brain death?

I would think the object would have blood and hair on it. I'm sure they've looked for that evidence on eveything in JG's home as well as JW's.
Would they release information about that....meaning, "we didn't find any evidence on the objects tested"

Just the Fax
05-02-2010, 10:28 AM
I would think the object would have blood and hair on it. I'm sure they've looked for that evidence on eveything in JG's home as well as JW's.
Would they release information about that....meaning, "we didn't find any evidence on the objects tested"

The SW would not have test results. They could have done a phenolphthalein presumptive blood test at his apartment to see if hidden blood was present, but they would not publish that info in the inventory of items seized.

They took golf clubs from JG's home and a hammer from JW's apartment.
I doubt there will ever be a trial, so we may never hear what the cops think he used.

sloothseeker
05-02-2010, 10:32 AM
So what was the "heavy blunt object" used to pulverize her skull and produce a "depressed fracture" severe enough to cause brain death?

Perhaps a bass guitar - or would that splinter upon impact?

Just the Fax
05-02-2010, 10:38 AM
Perhaps a bass guitar - or would that splinter upon impact?

Why the cops took his guitar is very odd.
I was thinking maybe it was traced to a known burglary and was 'hot'?

sloothseeker
05-02-2010, 10:54 AM
The amateur tv lawyer in me fears this case will be a plea to 2nd degree murder or worse - manslaughter (if possible) due to all the inconsistencies and speculation, contamination of crime scene by EMS, contamination of body while in hospital and how LE went about obtaining the dna from the cigarette butt.

I sure hope LE and DA's office has iron clad evidence that can convince a jury if it goes to trial - just too many unanswered questions based on what little the public knows.

sloothseeker
05-02-2010, 11:27 AM
The biggest question I still have is did he enter the intention of raping KT or was it presented as sudden opportunity and he acted? If he did not plan to encounter anyone in the home, he likely would not carry a weapon in with him (bat or perhaps a hammer)

IMO - given JW's history of B/E, drugs and alcohol - he probably DID NOT enter with the intent to rape; however, something caused him to "snap". Perhaps KT confronted him or perhaps seeing her medical state". Clearly not a young man thinking rational.

Prancy
05-02-2010, 11:37 AM
I don't have concern for the way LE obtained DNA from the cigarette butt, but I worry about timelines and inconsistencies in them being able to place the defendant at the scene at the correct time. I hope all of that can be worked out before trial.

As far as the weapon goes, it may not contain blood and hair if her head and hair was covered with guaze and tape. All of the blood would have been caught by the bandages. The blood would have resulted after it filled the bandages and then leaked out slowly. So it would not have resulted in the same blood splatter and cast off that you would normally expect.

We had been operating on the assumption she had the form fitting pull on type bandage you wear when you have neck surgery. A photo of it was posted previously. Since the autopsy reveals that she did NOT have neck surgery, I guess we have to look to what type of head bandages you would wear after a face lift. I'll see what I can find.

I am still curious as to why when someone has a facelift and breast augmentation, would you tell medical professionals who are trying to help give you life saving emergency instruction, they had neck surgery. I don't understand this.

Prancy
05-02-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm getting conflicting information. Some doctors are saying the bandages are thick and bulky for 24 hours post surgery and others say they no longer do that. However, we do know that KT had some due to the report from DH to the 911 caller.

http://www.realself.com/question/bandaging-facelift



Here is a photo of the dressing after facelift. It covers as much if not more than the one does for neck surgery IMO.
http://fotosa.ru/stock_photo/Fancy%20by%20Veer/p_2686660.jpg

sloothseeker
05-02-2010, 11:57 AM
I am still curious as to why when someone has a facelift and breast augmentation, would you tell medical professionals who are trying to help give you life saving emergency instruction, they had neck surgery. I don't understand this.

Perhaps DH was still groggy from the sinus medication since she also forgot her car wasnt parked out front and the hour and a half time lapse from first finding KT and the first 911 call (if the autospy report) was correct.

Not really a reliable/credible witness, imo

susubaby
05-02-2010, 12:40 PM
JTF- Do you feel comfortable in giving us an idea what type of field your profession is in? You are extremely knowledgeable about the law, and all that comes with it etc. and I am just curious about your profession.

TruthBTold
05-02-2010, 01:19 PM
A neck lift and face lift are often done in combination-the incision sites are the same behind the ear-but there is sometimes also an incision under the chin-also, she would have had to keep her head elevated after the face lift.

I don't think KT would have been up and about the day of her surgery-usually takes a day or two to do more than go to the bathroom.

wheaten
05-02-2010, 10:45 PM
A neck lift and face lift are often done in combination-the incision sites are the same behind the ear-but there is sometimes also an incision under the chin-also, she would have had to keep her head elevated after the face lift.

I don't think KT would have been up and about the day of her surgery-usually takes a day or two to do more than go to the bathroom.

i had the same face surgery (and from what i hear, by the same surgeon, who imo is excellent). head was bandaged almost mummylike, i couldn't chew anything, and was uncomfortable until the pain pill put me to sleep. big bandage off the following day, with some expected swelling; bruising more pronounced on second post op day. lucky for me i had caretakers who looked in on me hourly for the next three days. hard to find comfortable position for head.
stitches out i think on day four.

Maja
05-03-2010, 01:15 AM
The amateur tv lawyer in me fears this case will be a plea to 2nd degree murder or worse - manslaughter (if possible) due to all the inconsistencies and speculation, contamination of crime scene by EMS, contamination of body while in hospital and how LE went about obtaining the dna from the cigarette butt.

I sure hope LE and DA's office has iron clad evidence that can convince a jury if it goes to trial - just too many unanswered questions based on what little the public knows.

As I stated earlier, IMHO this case will not make it to court and JW will plead insanity.

At an AA meeting someone once said, "I'm sure glad I never killed anyone in a drunken state". Another member responded, "How do you know you didn't"?

sloothseeker
05-03-2010, 08:34 AM
...the pain pill put me to sleep.

Did the pain medication/surgery render you incapacitated such that iyo someone in a similar state and being attacked could not call out or try to defend themselves before having their skull crushed.

wheaten
05-03-2010, 09:54 AM
Did the pain medication/surgery render you incapacitated such that iyo someone in a similar state and being attacked could not call out or try to defend themselves before having their skull crushed.

my thinking and mobility were definitely affected by the pain med (this in addition to the other meds that had been given at the time of the procedure that morning: pain med, anesthesia, anti-nausea med). i had to be helped to the bathroom, couldn't walk steadily on my own that night and some of the next day.
i've thought a lot about kt and think it's possible that in what was probably her heavily sedated state, the whole thing may have seemed like a surreal nightmare. sure hope it didn't seem real to her.
oh, to answer the question, yes, i think she could call for help but probably not put up much of a defense.

Prancy
05-03-2010, 12:48 PM
With Wheaton's story, I'm wondering if KT could not have put up much of a fight due to her medication, then why was it necessary to strike her so hard in the head. Some lighter slaps with a hand would have been sufficient or just threatening her. He could easily have held her down. It's such a mystery.

Noway
05-03-2010, 06:02 PM
Maybe the blows were intended to kill.

Maybe he was under the influence of drugs/alcohol and did not realize the force of the blows?

Prancy
05-03-2010, 07:07 PM
People react differently to substances. I realize that, but I have experience with people who always blamed what they did on substances, but were equally as cruel, violent and mean when not under the influence. I also caught them rehashing stories of things they had claimed they didn't remember. They did remember and would correct someone if they missed a detail. It makes me skeptical.

Pehaps there are people who really black out. Then we have that sleepwalking defense......naaayyyyy...

crocus
05-03-2010, 09:01 PM
Did he have a fight/argument in the days prior to his attack on NT? Something that set off his inner beast?

I agree with you Prancy. The meaness is there whether under an influence or not.

It says something, though that he attacked a woman all swathed in bandages and obviously somewhat incapacitated. It took an obvious physically recovering woman for him to feel some sort of power?

wheaten
05-03-2010, 10:01 PM
Did he have a fight/argument in the days prior to his attack on NT? Something that set off his inner beast?

I agree with you Prancy. The meaness is there whether under an influence or not.

It says something, though that he attacked a woman all swathed in bandages and obviously somewhat incapacitated. It took an obvious physically recovering woman for him to feel some sort of power?

so if i was incapacitated from facelift, kt was doubly so since she also had breast procedure. does anyone know what type bandage is used in what apparently was "subpectoral" implant? with bandaged head and chest and pain meds...how vulnerable she was.

TruthBTold
05-04-2010, 01:26 AM
I think subpectoral means behind the muscle-she would have had stitches under each breast, covered in gauze and would have been wearing a special bra over the wrappings-her chest muscles would be very soar, and her breasts would have been swollen and very tender. I have been a caretaker for someone who has had this done-and I had to help rearrange pillows, I had to help her sit up and then stand up to go to the bathroom-she wanted as little movement as possible the first day-it was painful just to watch.
Anyone in this situation would scream out in pain just if they changed position in bed or bumped into something-so something stopped her from making noise if DH was in the house and did not hear anything.

Just the Fax
05-04-2010, 08:11 AM
JTF- Do you feel comfortable in giving us an idea what type of field your profession is in? You are extremely knowledgeable about the law, and all that comes with it etc. and I am just curious about your profession.

I am not in LE or any sort of legal profession. I picked up knowledge about criminal law procedure in the 3 years I intently (my wife says obsessivly :D) followed the Michelle Fisher Young case.

Just the Fax
05-04-2010, 08:19 AM
no1uknow
Was JW's wife at home that night?
If so, she should know if he had been drinking or doing drugs.
How would he leave the apartment (presumably on foot) after midnight w/o alerting her?

ruben321
05-04-2010, 09:22 AM
I think subpectoral means behind the muscle-she would have had stitches under each breast, covered in gauze and would have been wearing a special bra over the wrappings-her chest muscles would be very soar, and her breasts would have been swollen and very tender. I have been a caretaker for someone who has had this done-and I had to help rearrange pillows, I had to help her sit up and then stand up to go to the bathroom-she wanted as little movement as possible the first day-it was painful just to watch.
Anyone in this situation would scream out in pain just if they changed position in bed or bumped into something-so something stopped her from making noise if DH was in the house and did not hear anything.

I had the same surgery several years ago. My caretaker said she was given specific directions about how to care for me. The #1 thing she was told to do was to check on me VERY frequently. I was able to call for her(which I did several times).
I was not able to eat the night of my surgery much less drink beer & watch a movie, so it's hard to imagine KT eating supper & watching Paper Moon. IMO, KT would have gone straight to bed as soon as she got to the house.

wheaten
05-04-2010, 09:26 AM
ruben, i agree -- very hard to imagine dinner and a movie after one, much less, two procedures! Any alcohol was strictly forbidden.

Noway
05-04-2010, 11:18 AM
I noticed the autopsy pages are numbered 1 of 11, not counting the "viewer discretion" page.

I wonder what pages are not included in the PDF released. Maybe something key to what the ME found?

ETA
http://content.news14.com/pdf/taft/taft_autopsy.pdf

Prancy
05-04-2010, 11:45 AM
I noticed the autopsy pages are numbered 1 of 11, not counting the "viewer discretion" page.

I wonder what pages are not included in the PDF released. Maybe something key to what the ME found?

ETA
http://content.news14.com/pdf/taft/taft_autopsy.pdf

Maybe it was released, but the news station has edited it out for some reason. I compared it to the one I obtained recently, but they appear quite different in format.

caryresident
05-04-2010, 12:06 PM
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7538724/

AmarilloByAM
05-04-2010, 12:17 PM
I have been away traveling the past week and a half. My travels took me to Raleigh at one point and I took the time to drive down both Cartier and Wayland Drs. It is always so surreal to see in person the places up to that point I've only read about. On the day I drove by the JG house was either being extensively cleaned or painted (or both). The upstairs windows facing the street were open and the lights were on in the rooms. It looked like the furniture was covered up. It looked to me like there were two rooms in the front of the house with a bathroom in between them. I then rode by the JW apartment. There is no doubt that he could have easily walked the area behind his apartment to the JG house at night and not be seen b/c there are a lot of trees, bushes, etc. The thing about the whole ride by that I did not anticipate at all was that I saw 2 houses between the JW apartment and the JG house that had children's play equipment in the yards. Something about there being children close by gave me the chills. Also, Daniels Middle School is literally about 1 block away. I know JW has no prior concerns relating to children, but still the fact that there were children so close by really, really bothered me and that was an aspect I had never thought of.

AmarilloByAM
05-04-2010, 12:21 PM
During my trip I also read both of the Amanda Lamb books that Just the Fax recommended. One is called "Deadly Dose" about the Ann Miller case and the other is "Evil Next Door" which is about the Stephanie Bennett case. They are both very interesting and they do reveal a bit about how the Raleigh Police Department operates, why and why not they do certain things or reveal certain information, etc. I highly recommend them both. The Stephanie Bennett case is beyond sad. It was just awful.

TruthBTold
05-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Burglary means he had intent to commit a felony...wonder if they found the murder weapon?