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View Full Version : Exactly WHAT about Phoebe could set them "free?"



stmarysmead
04-26-2010, 05:35 PM
I have tried to think what exactly might be said about Phoebe...that could somehow shift the blame from the actions of the defendants onto her.

I suppose the line of thinking is that she was unstable BEFORE the harrassment began..therefore their alleged cruelty was inconsequential. However, if a group of thugs make a habit of shoving people to the street day after day...and one day they choose a heart patient who subsequently dies...oops...that's a crime.

Likewise, if a drunk driver crosses the highway and kills another motorist...the fact that the other motorist was a "cutter", or "depressed"...hardly mitigates the actions of the drunk who crossed the line.

If these kids harrassed her in the fashion that has been alleged...they "crossed a line" too.

Furthermore, if it is proven this intense bullying occured and these Bullies go unpunished because of some flaw or "secret" about Phoebe...we might as well establish a "Register of Legal Targets to Torment for Sport" in our public schools...because it will be open season if we condone this type of torment toward any child.

In other words, if any "fault" of Phoebe's is used to free these kids from guilt...any kid with that "fault" can be tormented at will...right?

But what do you think?

What can they say about Phoebe that makes their relentless campaign of cruelty...just an okay-fun-day-at-school that nobody should be upset about?

dcbrent
04-26-2010, 07:25 PM
imho alot more is going to hinge more on how good the witnesses are. how much first hand information they have rather than hearsay, and whether they will still be willing to testify in an open public forum about what happened as they did in private with the da and police. i think the trials are going to be a real minefield for all concerned. the defense attorneys will not be able to use aggressive crossx techniques at the risk of looking like they are bullying the witnesses. and the prosecution will hopefully still have all the witnesses on board at trial. at trial the witnesses are going to have the accused sitting in attendance as they testify. it's going to be a very emotional experience for everyone. I think all of that is going to make more of a difference than any personal details about phoebe. also where's the jury pool coming from and who's on it? that's another huge factor imho

athy
04-26-2010, 08:46 PM
they could try what my mom use to say to me. its all in your head, you have a persecution complex.

Sauerkraut2
04-26-2010, 10:42 PM
Hearsay is like the 1st Amendment... not absolute and subject to exceptions. I wouldn't worry too much about testimony - public vs private - because the risk of going to jail for perjury will rest heavy on their feeble little minds. The defense attorneys will have no choice but to go heavy handed; they have to vigorously defend their clients and the only possibility of making points and gaining headway towards an aquittal will be to rattle witnesses against their clients.

just my 2 cents worth.

Lou Cyper
04-27-2010, 04:45 AM
There were plenty of witnesses. Nothing could "set them free", they just have to be found guilty of what they did, because they did it.

It's the extent of what their punishment that is the variable.

Even if she was a gothic emo cutter, that doesn't give any one else the right to engage in harassment.

WaddupYo
04-27-2010, 10:43 AM
The only thing I can think which is now coming out but I don't know to believe it to be true is that Phoebe had attempted suicide several times before. But that still doesn't make it right? NO! F that mess!

Sauerkraut2
04-27-2010, 12:05 PM
The only thing I can think which is now coming out but I don't know to believe it to be true is that Phoebe had attempted suicide several times before. But that still doesn't make it right? NO! F that mess!


If you mean the crap some idiot named "danny bloom" is spamming all over the internet, do not believe it. I've read his scribblings - some of which were put into the spam bucket on my blog - and what he presents as "truth" is just him vying for attention.

WaddupYo
04-27-2010, 12:12 PM
If you mean the crap some idiot named "danny bloom" is spamming all over the internet, do not believe it. I've read his scribblings - some of which were put into the spam bucket on my blog - and what he presents as "truth" is just him vying for attention.

OH SK I'm so Fing angry right now I could bring the hell fires down right now. So angry.

Idiots

Paladine
04-28-2010, 11:40 AM
IMO, nothing. Nothing Phoebe could do or be would give anyone, any right to harass, assault, stalk, or have sex with a minor. NOTHING.

WaddupYo
04-28-2010, 11:58 AM
Well this reporter ***** from the WAshington Post wants these littler to get a free pass!

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/periscope/the-backlash-against-phoebe-prince-begins-90245637.html

Paladine
04-28-2010, 12:59 PM
Well this reporter ***** from the WAshington Post wants these littler to get a free pass!

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/news/periscope/the-backlash-against-phoebe-prince-begins-90245637.html
I read her original column, waddup. It recieved so much backlash, they posted letters from viewers who were outraged, in response. It happened while you were away, I think...I don't think she'll go there, again.

WaddupYo
04-28-2010, 01:07 PM
LEt's hope not or I feel I will write a letter too. I'm so angry at this person who is claiming everywhere to have inside info on Phoebe yet won't name sources.

Dr. Phail
05-06-2010, 10:47 AM
I don't know if it would "set them free" but there has been, from the beginning of this in January and possibly even before Phoebe's death, a fairly strong rumor that either webcam or cell phone evidence of some type, exists of at least one boy engaged in (some degree of) sexual activity with Phoebe....possibly even just pictures taken with a cell phone. I've come to doubt that such exists personally but I could easily be wrong.

I believe that yesterday (May 5) was some sort of "discovery day" where the DA had to turn over evidence they have?

If I understand that correctly and video and/or images do exist perhaps we'll know soon.

Considering the Hope Witsell case, wherein her suicide was ignored at least in part (I think very LARGE part) because she had sent, on 2 separate occasions, a picture of her naked breasts to some boys via cell phone :banghead: which it seemed made some people feel like she deserved whatever she got because she was a "whore" (knowledge of the full story reveals that she wasn't though...let alone the fact that its just boobs and everyones got 'em), I suppose video could sink Phoebe......if she came off as a "slut" in the video...or maybe it wouldn't even take that.

America is really "jumpy" about sex stuff you know....totally unpredictable how many would react...surely sex is among the most frightening things to many Americans but moreso than that the righteous amongst us leap at every chance to shout "pervert" about someone because it is an opportunity to make themselves appear more Holy before the eyes of the world.

Certainly many would avail themselves of the opportunity to showcase their own (false....pretend....) righteousness by bashing the heck outta Phoebe if theres naked vids and or pics lurking around somewhere.

Only took two somewhat blurry boobpics to get America to ignore Hope Witsell. :(

WaddupYo
05-06-2010, 03:01 PM
According to Livelaffluv on the masslive EMTs were discussing in public what Anne Prince may have or may not have said the night Phoebe was found. They were discussing details of the scene. HMMM

MaureenN
05-06-2010, 03:51 PM
...surely sex is among the most frightening things to many americans
lol :D

Dr. Phail
05-19-2010, 10:18 PM
According to Livelaffluv on the masslive EMTs were discussing in public what Anne Prince may have or may not have said the night Phoebe was found. They were discussing details of the scene. HMMM

Whadduup YO??? :)

I mean it literally in this instance.

To you and or SK:

'I am confused by the confusion.

Michelle has stated her belief that Phoebe brought it on herself. Michelle has further stated that she was on the Anti-Bullying Task Force. Recently its come to light that a teacher on this task force expressed a viewpoint which was, at best, ignorant. This viewpoint correlated comPLETELY with what Michelle has said all along....in attacking Phoebe for "inciting them".

So why the bewilderment on ya'lls part about which teacher on the task force made the comment?'


Why does SK act as though this is a mystery?

KariKae
05-27-2010, 12:32 PM
I wonder if they will try them as a group or as individuals. What would "set them free" IMO is pointing the finger at others. "I didn't do it. It was him. I said to stop, but she wouldn't."

Laurence
05-27-2010, 11:10 PM
Been a while since I posted. There's a real dearth of informatin right now. I've been expecting some leaks, mostly from defense lawyers trying to cause trouble. Sort of surprised we haven't seen any yet.

The lunacy on the MassLive board just gets harder and harder to read. I think once there is actual news on the case those people will get, not nicer, but probably re-oriented a bit in their bashing of each other.

Seems like a couple of them know people involved, so it will be interesting to see if they drop more information in the leadup to the trials and such.

Lynx FM
05-29-2010, 03:38 AM
KariKae, our society can only hope that people who engage in mob mentality crimes which lead to death will be tried individually before a jury if nothing more than to show a precedent in our US law that this behaviour will not be tolerated as anything less than an involuntary manslaughter caused by their complicity.

If our society does not enact the law today, you can envision tomorrow.

Lou Cyper
06-12-2010, 07:22 AM
It's my opinion that at least one of them is suffering an intellectual disability but I'm not saying anything just in case they get a leg up in getting off.

Tuffy
07-22-2010, 11:02 AM
Phoebe Prince's Family Slams Report That Teen Was Self-Mutilating Party Girl

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/22/phoebe-prince-family-slams-report-teen-self-mutilating-party-girl/

Andy C.
07-28-2010, 06:16 AM
Whadduup YO??? :)

I mean it literally in this instance.

To you and or SK:

'I am confused by the confusion.

Michelle has stated her belief that Phoebe brought it on herself. Michelle has further stated that she was on the Anti-Bullying Task Force. Recently its come to light that a teacher on this task force expressed a viewpoint which was, at best, ignorant. This viewpoint correlated comPLETELY with what Michelle has said all along....in attacking Phoebe for "inciting them".

So why the bewilderment on ya'lls part about which teacher on the task force made the comment?'


Why does SK act as though this is a mystery?

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Andy C.
07-28-2010, 06:18 AM
I wonder if they will try them as a group or as individuals. What would "set them free" IMO is pointing the finger at others. "I didn't do it. It was him. I said to stop, but she wouldn't."
LOL, that is a good one!

Andy C.
07-28-2010, 06:19 AM
It's my opinion that at least one of them is suffering an intellectual disability but I'm not saying anything just in case they get a leg up in getting off.
I agree!

Garland
07-29-2010, 06:00 PM
Has anyone read the articles posted by Slate yet? I believe that the author here is blaming Phoebe entirely & is probably trying not to:

What really Happened to Phoebe Prince? By Slate. (http://www.slate.com/id/2260952/entry/2260953/) That one was posted 9 days ago.

Also, Phoebe's father also speaks out (This was posted today):

Talking to Phoebe Prince's father, by Slate. (http://www.slate.com/id/2262194/?gt1=38001)

elle1919
08-01-2010, 03:08 PM
Has anyone read the articles posted by Slate yet? I believe that the author here is blaming Phoebe entirely & is probably trying not to:

What really Happened to Phoebe Prince? By Slate. (http://www.slate.com/id/2260952/entry/2260953/) That one was posted 9 days ago.

Also, Phoebe's father also speaks out (This was posted today):

Talking to Phoebe Prince's father, by Slate. (http://www.slate.com/id/2262194/?gt1=38001)

I thought that the article with the info from Phoebe's Dad might deserve it's own thread for discussion and came in to see if it was posted.

elle1919
08-01-2010, 03:12 PM
Jeremy Prince gave a telephone interview to a journalist. Short snip.

http://www.slate.com/id/2262194/?gt1=38001

snip~This is a much more temperate position than the one taken by people who say that "Justice for Phoebe" means sending all the kids to prison. Jeremy Prince lost the real Phoebe, not an idea of her, but he is not ready to subscribe to the view that such harsh punishment is necessarily warranted, though he said he will wait to see what the court decides. What he wants, he said, is an apology from the kids he believes hurt his daughter. "I'd dearly like to see admission and contrition, so that I could forgive," Prince said at the end of our conversation.* "If they confessed to the court and said they were sorry, I'd appeal to the court for total leniency. You can go two ways. You can look to the court for revenge or you can look for leniency. The latter path is mine." ~ end snip.

The article really is a great read.

jjenny
08-16-2010, 12:37 PM
Has anyone read the articles posted by Slate yet? I believe that the author here is blaming Phoebe entirely & is probably trying not to:

What really Happened to Phoebe Prince? By Slate. (http://www.slate.com/id/2260952/entry/2260953/) That one was posted 9 days ago.

Also, Phoebe's father also speaks out (This was posted today):

Talking to Phoebe Prince's father, by Slate. (http://www.slate.com/id/2262194/?gt1=38001)

I did read the article on slate and I pretty much agree with the author of the article.
Apparently violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting is because of her suicide. I have a problem with blaming other people for someone's suicide, unless it's really convincing evidence that somebody was driven to suicide and that's what the goal was, and I don't see this kind of thing in this case.
I personally do not understand how these kind of charges apply to this particular case. How is her suicide considered a bodily injury resulting from violation of her civil rights? She did commit the suicide herself.
I also don't understand statutory rape charges in a case where the boy denies they had sex and since she committed suicide she can not testify otherwise.

Natal
08-17-2010, 06:11 AM
I did read the article on slate and I pretty much agree with the author of the article.
Apparently violation of civil rights with bodily injury resulting is because of her suicide. I have a problem with blaming other people for someone's suicide, unless it's really convincing evidence that somebody was driven to suicide and that's what the goal was, and I don't see this kind of thing in this case.
I personally do not understand how these kind of charges apply to this particular case. How is her suicide considered a bodily injury resulting from violation of her civil rights? She did commit the suicide herself.
I also don't understand statutory rape charges in a case where the boy denies they had sex and since she committed suicide she can not testify otherwise.

Probably most of the charges were made to punish the kids involved. I don't think that there are reasonable grounds to convict any of them, but the charges in themselves will punish them even if they aren't convicted. The prosecutor may be throwing the book at them on all possibilities in anticipation of eventually intimidating them into a plea-deal on a lesser charge. Sort of legal bullying.

They will never be able to go to that town again without people pointing fingers at them, and the damage to their reputations will last a long time. Plus, because of the way people think, being accused like that will make them social pariahs and valid targets for bullying themselves in many people's minds (they will consider it socially acceptable to act that way). So, even if they are not convicted of anything, these kids are going to pay a heavy price.

Natal
08-17-2010, 06:15 AM
Jeremy Prince gave a telephone interview to a journalist. Short snip.

http://www.slate.com/id/2262194/?gt1=38001

snip~This is a much more temperate position than the one taken by people who say that "Justice for Phoebe" means sending all the kids to prison. Jeremy Prince lost the real Phoebe, not an idea of her, but he is not ready to subscribe to the view that such harsh punishment is necessarily warranted, though he said he will wait to see what the court decides. What he wants, he said, is an apology from the kids he believes hurt his daughter. "I'd dearly like to see admission and contrition, so that I could forgive," Prince said at the end of our conversation.* "If they confessed to the court and said they were sorry, I'd appeal to the court for total leniency. You can go two ways. You can look to the court for revenge or you can look for leniency. The latter path is mine." ~ end snip.

The article really is a great read.

They would be idiots if they confessed and relied on unofficial appeals from someone else for leniency. Not going to happen IMO.

jjenny
05-05-2011, 09:55 PM
Well the statutory rape charge has been dropped. Anyone surprised? How can someone be prosecuted for statutory rape when an alleged victim is dead?
So, why were these charges of statutory rape ever brought?