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Patience
04-29-2010, 08:37 AM
Updated: Thu Apr. 29 2010 8:24:51 AM

ctvtoronto.ca
Accused sex killer Russell Williams, a former CFB Trenton base commander, is now facing 82 additional charges, according to the Ontario Provincial Police.
Police say that authorities within the Ottawa and Belleville police services reviewed unsolved crimes in their jurisdictions and laid the charges against the 46-year-old as a result.
The 82 additional burglary-related charges consist of:

61 counts of break, enter and theft
10 counts of break and enter with the intent to commit an indictable offence
11 counts of attempted break and enter.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100429/Williams_charges_100429/20100429/?hub=TorontoNewHome


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/russell-williams-faces-82-more-burglary-related-charges/article1550700/

Patience
04-29-2010, 08:40 AM
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Ex-CFB Trenton boss attempts suicide in jail: report (http://www.websleuths.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100405/TOR_williams_suicide_100405?hub=TorontoNewHome)
Murder case against ex-commander put over to April (http://www.websleuths.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100325/Tor_col_charges_100325?hub=TorontoNewHome)


http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100429/Williams_charges_100429/20100429/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Patience
04-29-2010, 08:43 AM
OPP charge Col. Williams with 82 additional charges (http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100429/Williams_charges_100429/20100429/?hub=TorontoNewHome)

CTV.ca - ‎13 minutes ago‎
Col. Russ Williams salutes as he arrives at the Battle of Britain parade in Trenton, Ont., Sept. 20, 2009. (Cpl. Miranda Langguth / Department of National ...



Police lay 82 more charges against double murder suspect Col. Russell Williams (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/breakingnews/police-lay-82-more-charges-against-double-murder-suspect-col-russell-williams-92403384.html)

Winnipeg Free Press - ‎19 minutes ago‎
BELLEVILLE, Ont. - Police have laid an additional 82 charges against Colonel Russell Williams, the former base commander of CFB Trenton awaiting trial on ...



Col. Williams charged in dozens of break-ins (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--col-williams-charged-in-dozens-of-break-ins?bn=1)

Toronto Star - ‎20 minutes ago‎
Col.Russell Williams, pictured in September 2009, was charged with two counts of first-degree murder in February 2010. Russell Williams, the former ...



Col. Williams faces 82 new charges (http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2965178)

National Post - ‎22 minutes ago‎
Canadian Forces Combat Camera/Warrant Officer Carole Morissette/Handout/Reuters Colonel Russell Williams 47, was arrested on Feb. ...



Russell Williams faces 82 more burglary-related charges (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/russell-williams-faces-82-more-burglary-related-charges/article1550700/)

Globe and Mail - ‎45 minutes ago‎
Colonel Russell Williams, Wing Commander of Canadian Forces Base Trenton, is pictured in this September 20, 2009 handout photo. Belleville, Ont. — Globe and ...



Col. Williams faces break-in charges (http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/04/29/13757821.html)

Toronto Sun - Kenneth Jackson (http://news.google.ca/news/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=author%3A%22Kenneth+Jackson%22&scoring=n), Jon Willing (http://news.google.ca/news/search?pz=1&cf=all&ned=ca&hl=en&q=author%3A%22Jon+Willing%22&scoring=n) - ‎4 hours ago‎
Col. Russell Williams, the man accused in two murders, will also be charged with several break-ins in Orleans ...

Canadian4
04-29-2010, 08:48 AM
He has been on a hunger strike since April 8th. Wonder how long he can go?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-commander-russell-williams-on-hunger-strike/article1529801/

Patience
04-29-2010, 08:49 AM
News Release

April 29 2010

Williams faces additional charges
BELLEVILLE, ON, April 29 /CNW/ - Today, April 29, 2010, the Major Case
Management Team, led by Ontario Provincial Police (OPP), Criminal
Investigations Branch, working jointly with Belleville Police (BPS), Ottawa
Police (OPS) and the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS)
laid more charges against 46-year-old Russell Williams, of Tweed, Ontario.
The Ottawa Police Service, Belleville Police Service and OPP, with the
assistance of CFNIS, reviewed unsolved crimes in the vicinity of Ottawa,
Belleville and Tweed. As a result, Williams faces 82 additional charges.


<<
WILLIAMS is further charged with:

Belleville Police Jurisdiction
------------------------------
2 counts break, enter and theft

Ottawa Police Jurisdiction - All within the Fallingbrook area
-------------------------------------------------------------
23 counts break, enter and theft
3 counts break and enter with intent to commit an indictable offence
8 counts attempt break and enter

Tweed/OPP Jurisdiction
----------------------
36 counts break, enter and theft
7 break and enter with intent to commit an indictable offence
3 counts attempt break and enter
>>


Following an extensive review of unsolved crimes relating to homicides,
missing persons, sexual assaults and break and enters within these
jurisdictions, (Ottawa, Belleville and Tweed), these charges today, represent
the known offences that have been linked to Russell WILLIAMS to date.
On Sunday, February 7, 2010 Williams was arrested for the murders of
Jessica Lloyd and Marie Comeau. He remains in custody.
If anyone has information, they are asked to call the OPP, Belleville
Police, Ottawa Police or Crimestoppers.




http://www.opp.ca/ecms/index.php?id=405&nid=233

Patience
04-29-2010, 09:03 AM
He has been on a hunger strike since April 8th. Wonder how long he can go?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-commander-russell-williams-on-hunger-strike/article1529801/


I want him to eat so he can face what he has done. To die would be a coward's way out imo. Kudo's to the OPP for pressing these new charges. I expect more. I can't help but wonder what crimes he committed in Canada's western provinces and elsewhere in the world.

nobodyzgirl
04-29-2010, 12:06 PM
According to linked article:

He looked thinner than when first charged, but not as if he had been refusing to eat.

He did ask at his court appearance that the new charges not be read out in court. Guess he's giving more than his name, rank and serial number while in front of the judge.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2965178#ixzz0mVQ3T4NY

and another link that also mentions he looked healthy considering his alleged hunger strike.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--trenton-colonel-faces-82-more-charges?bn=1

flipflop
04-29-2010, 12:14 PM
According to linked article:

He looked thinner than when first charged, but not as if he had been refusing to eat.

He did ask at his court appearance that the new charges not be read out in court. Guess he's giving more than his name, rank and serial number while in front of the judge.

Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2965178#ixzz0mVQ3T4NY


Col. Williams, who did not enter a plea, requested that the charges not be read out in the packed courtroom. He did not give a reason.

The judge complied with the request.



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2965178#ixzz0mVSMb8U7

Ugggh! Why would the judge comply with his wishes....somethings in life just do not seem fair!

antiquegirl
04-29-2010, 12:16 PM
He has been on a hunger strike since April 8th. Wonder how long he can go?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-commander-russell-williams-on-hunger-strike/article1529801/

I emailed TA at The Globe a little while ago, asking about the hunger strike, and got this immediate reply:

Watch the web site
More upcoming
Tnx

So, we should hear more details about this soon. Stay tuned to The Globe and Mail.

antiquegirl
04-29-2010, 12:19 PM
Col. Williams, who did not enter a plea, requested that the charges not be read out in the packed courtroom. He did not give a reason.

The judge complied with the request.



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2965178#ixzz0mVSMb8U7

Ugggh! Why would the judge comply with his wishes....somethings in life just do not seem fair!

(BBM)

ITA, but at least we have access to the charges anyway. See Patience's Post #5.

flipflop
04-29-2010, 12:28 PM
(BBM)

ITA, but at least we have access to the charges anyway. See Patience's Post #5.

Yes I did read the charges. I was just thinking of the twisted freak in the court room, he did not want the charges read infront of the packed court room...still trying to have control and it is granted to him.

nobodyzgirl
04-29-2010, 12:30 PM
Yes I did read the charges. I was just thinking of the twisted freak in the court room, he did not want the charges read infront of the packed court room...still trying to have control and it is granted to him.

ITA FF - He will continue to try and have whatever control he can get, and depending on who was going to read the charges with so many, it could have taken hours! LOL

nobodyzgirl
04-29-2010, 12:47 PM
according to this he's going to plead guilty to all charges...hmmm, not sure if I should believe or not.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams-to-plead-guilty-to-all-charges/article1551083/


If Col. Williams pleads guilty it would be unusual – it is rare for a defendant to plead guilty to first-degree murder and even more so when there is more than one offence.

The automatic penalty for multiple first-degree murder convictions is life imprisonment with no chance of parole for at least 25 years. (With a single conviction, the inmate can seek to make a parole application at the 15-year mark, under the so-called faint hope clause.) In this instance, however, sources familiar with the case say Col. Williams’s motivation to expedite matters is threefold: The evidence is overwhelming; he wants to minimize the anguish of his wife, Mary Elizabeth Harriman; and he sees little point in accumulating large legal bills.

flipflop
04-29-2010, 12:53 PM
according to this he's going to plead guilty to all charges...hmmm, not sure if I should believe or not.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams-to-plead-guilty-to-all-charges/article1551083/

Col. Williams has ended his hunger strike, one of the sources also said.

I wish they would not use the term "sources" when quoting such things in the media....it means nothing when it follows news like this.

reen
04-29-2010, 01:13 PM
He's ended the hunger strike:

http://tinyurl.com/2epyg9t

ETA: Sorry,Flipflop! Posted at the same time!

antiquegirl
04-29-2010, 01:32 PM
according to this he's going to plead guilty to all charges...hmmm, not sure if I should believe or not.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/russell-williams-to-plead-guilty-to-all-charges/article1551083/

Since the reporter of this article (TA) is the same one who has been commissioned to write a book about this case, I'm guessing that he probably has more access to information than any other journalist - perhaps even personal meetings with RW himself, if allowed by the defence attorney. If TA reported information now that turned out to be false, he would lose credibility and thus sales of his upcoming book. I think he would be extra-careful to verify his information for this reason, if nothing else. Personally, I believe these reports and am hoping for a quick resolution.

JMO

Pink Panther
04-29-2010, 02:31 PM
One has to wonder when he had the time to do all this! Also, imagine how sure of himself he was after committing so many b&e's without being caught!

ETA - Based on this article, the police is now asking the public for information:

http://northumberlandnews.com/news/article/153047

Pink Panther
04-29-2010, 02:42 PM
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2556574

"To be specific on the break and enters and what he was doing? No, I can't say because it's an ongoing investigation. We've got these 82 charges but there's still other things. The case is still being looked at," Rae said. Further charges could come in the future as Rae said "nothing's been ruled out at this point."

Italic, bold above are mine. I hope that despite his (RW's) wanting to get things over with that the police continue to do a detailed investigation of any/all related cases! If other more serious crimes were committed by him, the victims or their families deserve closure.

MOO

antiquegirl
04-29-2010, 02:53 PM
One has to wonder when he had the time to do all this! Also, imagine how sure of himself he was after committing so many b&e's without being caught!

ETA - Based on this article, the police is now asking the public for information:

http://northumberlandnews.com/news/article/153047

I'm guessing that he committed these B & Es while out "jogging" in the evenings, sometime between 7 and midnight when the women were out socializing for the evening. (There was at least one article that suggested he needed very little sleep.) I seriously doubt that RW was stupid or careless enough to attempt any of these crimes in daylight and too busy working during the week. He also had to account to his wife for his absences on the week-ends, so timing was everything.

I suspect he staked out the homes/apartments and made sure there was no one home to be so successful in so many incidents. It's also possible that he may have been caught in some of them, but managed to escape and not be identified - yet. Thus, LE asking the public to now connect the face with anything suspicious they may have seen.

These charges go back several years, so someone needs to do the math to determine how many (known) break-ins he committed per month on the average.

JMO

Snoopster
04-29-2010, 04:42 PM
What is "break and enter with the intent to commit an indictable offence"?

Would this be a B&E where he went in intending to steal something, but heard someone so he had to dash? i.e. a B&E with an attempted theft?...or is it something more serious?

quote by Pink Panther:

<snip> I suspect he staked out the homes/apartments and made sure there was no one home to be so successful in so many incidents. It's also possible that he may have been caught in some of them, but managed to escape and not be identified - yet.
BBM.

antiquegirl
04-29-2010, 05:15 PM
What is "break and enter with the intent to commit an indictable offence"?

Would this be a B&E where he went in intending to steal something, but heard someone so he had to dash? i.e. a B&E with an attempted theft?...or is it something more serious?

BBM.

"Sgt. Kristine Rae of the OPP said she could not expand on the "intent to commit an indictable offence" charges noting there are a number of things under the Criminal Code that are considered an indictable offence. Due to the fact the investigation is ongoing, she said, she could not reveal what that offences are."

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2556574

nobodyzgirl
04-29-2010, 07:53 PM
What is "break and enter with the intent to commit an indictable offence"?

Would this be a B&E where he went in intending to steal something, but heard someone so he had to dash? i.e. a B&E with an attempted theft?...or is it something more serious?

quote by Pink Panther:

BBM.

A B&E with the intent to sexually assault someone or murder someone would be considered an indictable offence. Theft would be considered, depending on the dollar amount.

Other examples of indictable offences are: Treason, drunk driving causing death, piracy.

An indictable offence is more serious than a summary conviction offence and it carries a lengthy maximum sentence. The accused is also allowed to elect to be tried by a higher court by judge and jury or judge alone.

HTH

antiquegirl
04-29-2010, 08:53 PM
A B&E with the intent to sexually assault someone or murder someone would be considered an indictable offence. Theft would be considered, depending on the dollar amount.

Other examples of indictable offences are: Treason, drunk driving causing death, piracy.

An indictable offence is more serious than a summary conviction offence and it carries a lengthy maximum sentence. The accused is also allowed to elect to be tried by a higher court by judge and jury or judge alone.

HTH

Legalese is so confusing! How would anyone know what the "intent" was if he wasn't caught? If someone were apprehended during a B&E carrying duct tape, a gun, and a camera, I guess a case could be made that sexual assault or murder may have been the "intent". But unless he was caught at the time, or later confessed to this "intent", how could anyone determine or charge him for such? I'd really like to understand this.

satchel
04-29-2010, 09:01 PM
"This accused killer was [allegedly] in these homes — all these homes! That's just unbelievable," she said, adding that she doesn't know how police failed to connect the cases.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/04/29/ottawa-russell-williams-police-tweed.html#ixzz0mXUNCDtj


No wonder this guy felt impermeable and above reproach. How could this be?
Are there so many panty thefts in all of our communities that they were not alarmed
and alerted to the two areas that were being hit and cross reference individuals who
could be residing or connected to both areas? This just astounds me and nauseates me
at the same time.

Snoopster
04-30-2010, 12:30 AM
Let's add it up.

RW confessed to the "obvious" major crimes as soon as he was caught.

He recognized that life was over as he knew it. His respect as a career army officer was gone. His wife and personal life was gone. His secret twisted life was gone. None of these were recoverable. What was left for a 'perfectionist'?

Since then he has tried to end his life. He has indicated that he will plead guilty to the higest level charge, with the highest possible legal penalty. He is avoiding appearing at trial at all costs. He has eliminated any reason why other charges will be brought against him. (afterall he is already accepting the highest punishment....what else can they hope to accomplish?) He has no intention of seeing his incarceration out. He will not see people looking down at him. He will end his life.

This does not bode well for the motivation for LE to engage in significant further investigations. I don't believe that they will have RW's cooperation on further possible cases. He is just trying to 'end things'.

Unfortunately I believe that this means that we will never know the extent of the crimes he committed. :banghead:

antiquegirl
04-30-2010, 12:39 AM
Wow! This story has now made The New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/americas/30canada.html

Hazel
04-30-2010, 03:10 AM
The path of an alleged predator

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/38/7d/a35e7bfd48319c1aade81ba983f8.jpeg


there was and article with the option to select "Fullscreen", but seems it has been updated and they removed it, or I can't find it :(
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--col-williams-charged-in-dozens-of-break-ins?bn=1#article

Hazel
04-30-2010, 04:08 AM
Legalese is so confusing! How would anyone know what the "intent" was if he wasn't caught? If someone were apprehended during a B&E carrying duct tape, a gun, and a camera, I guess a case could be made that sexual assault or murder may have been the "intent". But unless he was caught at the time, or later confessed to this "intent", how could anyone determine or charge him for such? I'd really like to understand this.
NBG: Would leaving someone for dead be considered "with the intent to commit an indictable offence "? There is this particular case that I have in mind, in which the victim was found barely alive. Nobody was looking for her, she was lucky her "hero(s)" just happened to stumble upon her.
This case has not yet been talked about in the media in connection to RW, and could very well be solved by now; however, AFAIK they never said if she recovered completely nor any further details of what happened. Will have to do some research and see if I can find something about it.

IMO and this is just MOO, LE is starting with the lesser charges. They have stated the investigation is ongoing, and they are investigating cold cases.

Canadian4
04-30-2010, 05:42 AM
Williams victim feels betrayed by police.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/04/29/ottawa-russell-williams-police-tweed.html

Pink Panther
04-30-2010, 08:07 AM
It sounds like he had a very detailed filing system with his thefts; possibly including dates and locations attached to what was stolen! If the charges laid so far only date back to 2006 or 2007 (I have seen both dates listed in articles), perhaps he has other "filing systems" (dating further back) that he has stored elsewhere outside of his home??? I do believe that he had a place to stay at the base as well and he may have rented storage space or other locations as well. Just a thought...

nobodyzgirl
04-30-2010, 09:17 AM
NBG: Would leaving someone for dead be considered "with the intent to commit an indictable offence "? There is this particular case that I have in mind, in which the victim was found barely alive. Nobody was looking for her, she was lucky her "hero(s)" just happened to stumble upon her.
This case has not yet been talked about in the media in connection to RW, and could very well be solved by now; however, AFAIK they never said if she recovered completely nor any further details of what happened. Will have to do some research and see if I can find something about it.

IMO and this is just MOO, LE is starting with the lesser charges. They have stated the investigation is ongoing, and they are investigating cold cases.


Hazel, leaving someone for dead would be an indictable offence and likely the accused could be charged with attempted murder, which can carry a life sentence. HTH

nobodyzgirl
04-30-2010, 09:20 AM
It sounds like he had a very detailed filing system with his thefts; possibly including dates and locations attached to what was stolen! If the charges laid so far only date back to 2006 or 2007 (I have seen both dates listed in articles), perhaps he has other "filing systems" (dating further back) that he has stored elsewhere outside of his home??? I do believe that he had a place to stay at the base as well and he may have rented storage space or other locations as well. Just a thought...

I suspect that the deatiled filing system is from from his military background.

My grandfather was in the army and I have never seen anyone with a more detailed system - he could find whatever he was looking for within a matter of seconds.

antiquegirl
04-30-2010, 09:37 AM
It sounds like he had a very detailed filing system with his thefts; possibly including dates and locations attached to what was stolen! If the charges laid so far only date back to 2006 or 2007 (I have seen both dates listed in articles), perhaps he has other "filing systems" (dating further back) that he has stored elsewhere outside of his home??? I do believe that he had a place to stay at the base as well and he may have rented storage space or other locations as well. Just a thought...

This is how I picture the situation - completely guesswork on my part. I'm basing it on info provided so far by the media, i.e. that RW kept meticulous records, perhaps to the point of having OCD, the sheer number of charges yesterday, and the fact that some of the residents were not even aware of break-ins until told by LE.

I think that RW kept at least two data bases on his computer. One would contain the addresses of places he was staking out in advance of actually breaking into them. He might include descriptions of the female inhabitants of these homes and records of their comings and goings, trying to establish possible safe entry dates and times.

He would then enter the homes when he felt they were unoccupied, ransack them, and steal his trophies. I believe he would do this in darkness, with the cover of being out for a jog.

He may have stored each piece of underwear (or whatever) in individual zip-lock bags, labeling them with code numbers. Then he would enter those code numbers either in the one existing data base, or have a second one, where he would list the addresses they were obtained from, the date, and possibly other details.

There's no way he could have retained this number of crimes in his memory. I think LE found these data bases on his hard drive and then took these past few weeks to interview the residents and verify the information.

I found it interesting that today's Star article listed "granny pants" and sex toys as some of the items stolen. Until now, I had envisioned that he targeted pretty, lacy panties and bras from attractive young women. Apparently, he wasn't that discriminating. His fetish is not in the appearance of these articles. I suspect the man is a "sniffer" (sorry!) - if possible, even more perverted than I had imagined.

I apologize to the sensitive for the explicit nature of my speculations and assure you that I'm as disgusted as you are. All of it is MOO.

Paladine
04-30-2010, 02:10 PM
Col. Williams, who did not enter a plea, requested that the charges not be read out in the packed courtroom. He did not give a reason.

The judge complied with the request.



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2965178#ixzz0mVSMb8U7

Ugggh! Why would the judge comply with his wishes....somethings in life just do not seem fair!
Cause he's Canadian? And he's nice?

All kidding aside, it may haven taken alot of the courts time to read out all the charges and the court isn't there, at this stage, to just do so to shame the perp, even if it would have been the right thing to do. According to you and I, anyways...;)

btw...I'm Canadian, too :)

Paladine
04-30-2010, 02:11 PM
Too bad the police here, in my town, Ottawa, didn't catch him sooner. Maybe those girls wouldn't have died.

Paladine
04-30-2010, 02:13 PM
Not sure if this was posted...one of the victims, speaks...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/04/30/ott-russell-williams-break-in.html

Hazel
04-30-2010, 02:40 PM
Just in case, I'm posting these 2 Google maps links here, because The Star keeps updating that Police paint portrait of a chilling stalker article and removing and adding map images.

MAPS:

Alleged break-ins in Tweed (http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802283)

Alleged break-ins in Ottawa (http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802314)

flipflop
04-30-2010, 04:00 PM
They were trying to solve this investigation without scaring people," she said. "They weren't getting it [the information] out. This was a serious thing … I feel that they've let a lot of people down. I feel a lot of things could have been prevented."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/04/29/ottawa-russell-williams-police-tweed.html#ixzz0mcB8TDEA

I really feel for this poor womman that became a victim of RW on Sept 30th. I cannot imagine how she is feeling now that she knows it was RW and how huge this case has become.
I also cannot believe the LE statements that they made regarding "they didn't want to scare the public". Would it not have been better to scare someone with this knowledge, then to have more victims of RW who are either dead or alive. With the public having knowledge of the # of B/E's and panty thefts, it would have made women living alone more alert and careful, it also would have made the communities more observant to who is in the neighbourhood. After looking at those maps, Im sure the people living on Cosy Lane and surrounding area would have REALLY appreciated having the scare put on them as oppsed to having more victims.
LE did a good job catching this monster, however, I feel they should have spoke up and put the scare to the public to keep everyone alert. Perhaps this could have prevented a couple deaths/rapes along the way.

Hazel
04-30-2010, 04:21 PM
Sex assault victim offers forgiveness
Last Updated: April 29, 2010 7:40pm
Often, when a bad guy pleads out, the victims are left feeling incomplete. Not this Tweed mom.

“Actually, I’m relieved. He’s doing the right thing.

“He did a wrong and he’s going to pay.”

You mean, you forgive him?

There’s a long, long pause.

“It’s not up to me,” she says. “But, yes, I forgive him for what he did to me.”

And maybe, she says, a plea will even shine light on any other dark secrets in Col. Williams’ past.

What do you feel, when you see him on TV or the papers? Hate? Fear? Loathing?

“Pity,” she says.

“I just want to move on, Mike. You know, I asked him that night, near the end, ‘why are you doing this?’

“And he said, ‘it has to be done so I can move on with my life and you can move on with yours.’

“Well, now, I guess I really can move on with my life.”

But if the case went to trial, you could face him. You could have your say.

“I already talked to that guy for 2 1/2 hours. I don’t want to talk to him any more.”
RS&BBM

read more: http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/04/29/13768851-qmi.html

flipflop
04-30-2010, 04:48 PM
Sex assault victim offers forgiveness
Last Updated: April 29, 2010 7:40pm
RS&BBM

read more: http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/04/29/13768851-qmi.html

“I just want to move on, Mike. You know, I asked him that night, near the end, ‘why are you doing this?’ “And he said, ‘it has to be done so I can move on with my life and you can move on with yours.

"It has to be done so I can move on with my life"

Was he taking revenge out on "women" because of his mother, or his ex girlfriend from back in his college days, or some other female who hurt him? Or was it to fullfill his deviant sexual needs??? Whats everyones thoughts on why he stated this???

This next statement from the same article caught my eye:

The break-ins were among the 82 new B&E charges dropped on Williams on Wednesday — even as he reportedly struck an agreement in principle on a plea bargain

??? I wonder what this means?

The more I read that article, the more P.O.'d I got. The victim had to hear the details of her own break in's from a reporter that was interviewing her.

Hazel
04-30-2010, 05:02 PM
Case keeps growing against top airman

82 new charges. Police say Russell Williams hit Orléans homes -- and dozens of others in Eastern Ontario -- in his quest for lingerie and potential victims
April 30, 2010 1:09 PM


It was the one house where the burglar literally covered his tracks in the snowy backyard in December 2008, putting on the vacationing homeowner's boots to stomp over his own footprints before going back in through the patio door and searching high and low for women's lingerie.

He finally found it, tucked away in the upper shelf of a closet in the spare bedroom. He walked right past money and jewelry and then tried, unsuccessfully, to hack into the home computer.

He left through the front door and, when the neighbours saw it wide open the next day, they called police.


Other times, he would be seen alone, jogging. Police say he was casing his targets, all women.

They say the intruder never left fingerprints and stole women's lingerie exclusively.

In a lengthy interview on a Sunday in February at Ottawa police headquarters, Williams allegedly directed detectives to so-called trophies at his new home at 473 Edison Ave. in Westboro, including photographic images and more than 500 pairs of women's underwear taken in break-ins.


In one Orléans home, the intruder took undergarments not only from a mother's bedroom, but also from her daughter's. In that home, the intruder collected all the photographs in the teenager's room and placed them on her bed, spreading them out like a deck of cards.

The rash of lingerie break-ins in 2008 left the neighbourhood on edge. Many installed surveillance systems and Ottawa police launched an undercover operation with the hopes of catching the burglar.

Detectives feared the crimes could escalate specifically because of their sexual overtones. They deployed undercover officers in unmarked cars and had officers posing as late-night strollers.

The intruder they were looking for always popped back or side windows to get in. And, as if the homes had been cased, the crimes occurred at night when the women were away.



O'Keeffe said he's visited Williams three times and plans to ask him about the new charges. He said it was difficult to get Williams to open up about anything.

"(I talk to him) through very artificial means. It's like talking through a brick wall. It's very secluded and time is a restriction," said O'Keeffe. "He's under guard. He's in prison ... I mean it's not designed for fun time. It's cold and I just want to get out of there when I'm in there myself."


RS&BBM

read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Case+keeps+growing+against+airman/2968899/story.html#ixzz0mcJP1zmf

flipflop
04-30-2010, 05:15 PM
Lots of new articles out there! I think I will stop surfing! The more I findl, the creepier this guy gets.

A slew of new charges against Col. Russell Williams paint a portrait of a predator who repeatedly broke into the homes of neighbours and apparently stalked one of the women he’s accused of killing. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--police-paint-portrait-of-a-chilling-stalker?bn=1

**which victim did he stalk?????

The alleged break-ins involved incredible stealth: Several of the victims told The Star they did not know their homes had been broken into until police recently notified them
He is also charged with breaking into one home near his Tweed cottage nine times

** creepy, he really must have felt unstoppable!!! No outcry of warnings from LE were ever issued and now some homes didn't even realize they were broken into!!!!

The woman didn’t call police until much later, when she saw her backyard window was missing its screen. They told her they were investigating a series of similar break-ins in the neighbourhood, where only women’s underwear and sex toys were stolen

**Perhaps if the warning was put out, ppl would have been on the lookout and this woman would have noticed it sooner. This is also the first that I have heard about sex toys.


It was the one house where the burglar literally covered his tracks in the snowy backyard in December 2008, putting on the vacationing homeowner's boots to stomp over his own footprints before going back in through the patio door and searching high and low for women's lingerie

**he really did "cover his tracks" except his tire tracks...Thanks GOD!

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Case+keeps+growing+against+airman/2968899/story.html#ixzz0mcVvHCMy

Hazel
04-30-2010, 05:19 PM
I know Flipflop, this is so unbelievable! Looking at the maps I now understand what LE meant by "geography", but I cannot comprehend why they only started connecting the dots after JL disappeared. I have this awful feeling that someone could have had an inkling as to who was responsible for all these B&Es, but felt they didn't have much of a case considering the "status" of this person.
Why did they suspect Mr Jones? Could it be because the victim was asked if she heard a car engine after the "intruder" left, and she said Nope! So they knew the perp had left on foot, and might be someone living closeby? They never even interviewed RW, just to ask him if he had seen or heard something??? I sure hope I'm wrong, and it's just my "suspicious mind" in overtime.

flipflop
04-30-2010, 05:24 PM
I know Flipflop, this is so unbelievable! Looking at the maps I now understand what LE meant by "geography", but I cannot comprehend why they only started connecting the dots after JL disappeared. I have this awful feeling that someone could have had an inkling as to who was responsible for all these B&Es, but felt they didn't have much of a case considering the "status" of this person.
Why did they suspect Mr Jones? Could it be because the victim was asked if she heard a car engine after the "intruder" left, and she said Nope! So they knew the perp had left on foot, and might be someone living closeby? They never even interviewed RW, just to ask him if he had seen or heard something??? I sure hope I'm wrong, and it's just my "suspicious mind" in overtime.

We're on the same thought path Hazel. I wonder how many LE thought it was RW, but his status scared them off. Of course, no one will ever admit that now! And yes why was just Mr Jones a suspect, what about the rest of the males in the neighbourhood...

Hazel
04-30-2010, 05:35 PM
Lots of new articles out there! I think I will stop surfing! The more I findl, the creepier this guy gets.

A slew of new charges against Col. Russell Williams paint a portrait of a predator who repeatedly broke into the homes of neighbours and apparently stalked one of the women he’s accused of killing. http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--police-paint-portrait-of-a-chilling-stalker?bn=1
**which victim did he stalk?????
I believe they are refering to MFComeau. He had allegedly broken into her home 8 days before she was murdered.

They told her they were investigating a series of similar break-ins in the neighbourhood, where only women’s underwear and sex toys were stolen
**Perhaps if the warning was put out, ppl would have been on the lookout and this woman would have noticed it sooner. This is also the first that I have heard about sex toys.
Same here, first article I read about that. Makes you wonder why would he like to have "used" things. Yuck! He could have purchased all of that stuff himself from La Senza, La Vie en Rose or any other lingerie store and say he was buying for his wife.

It was the one house where the burglar literally covered his tracks in the snowy backyard in December 2008, putting on the vacationing homeowner's boots to stomp over his own footprints before going back in through the patio door and searching high and low for women's lingerie
**he really did "cover his tracks" except his tire tracks...Thanks GOD!
Amen!

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Case+keeps+growing+against+airman/2968899/story.html#ixzz0mcVvHCMy
rs&bbm

Snoopster
04-30-2010, 06:33 PM
Looking at the "cluster" of B&E's and sexual assaults, it jumps out at me that the only 2 that aren't in the "clusters" were the two that were murdered. Is it possible that he went to those 2 places with intent to murder, so he picked individuals that didn't live in his neighborhood?

flipflop
04-30-2010, 07:00 PM
Looking at the "cluster" of B&E's and sexual assaults, it jumps out at me that the only 2 that aren't in the "clusters" were the two that were murdered. Is it possible that he went to those 2 places with intent to murder, so he picked individuals that didn't live in his neighborhood?

I had noticed that as well on the maps, I have been wondering why the different location for the 2 murders. Did he do this on purpose to make it look like someone totally different from the lingerie B&E?

nevinm
05-01-2010, 08:07 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/803220--the-frantic-life-of-col-david-russell-williams?bn=1

"By the time Col. David Russell Williams became boss of Canada’s largest air force base, police allege he had already broken into his neighbours’ houses 58 times."

flipflop
05-01-2010, 08:48 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/803220--the-frantic-life-of-col-david-russell-williams?bn=1

"By the time Col. David Russell Williams became boss of Canada’s largest air force base, police allege he had already broken into his neighbours’ houses 58 times."

Just putting this out there, as a few ppl were looking for specific dates:

From May 9, 2008, to June 19, 2009, police allege Williams was behind 32 break-ins. (Ottawa)


a pattern of breaking into homes — usually on Fridays and Saturdays — near his cottage in Tweed


http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/803220--the-frantic-life-of-col-david-russell-williams?bn=1

Pink Panther
05-01-2010, 09:43 AM
It's extremely unlikely that he just started up his activities out-of-the-blue in 2006/2007. If they are currently trying to come to an agreement, I hope that they take their time and hold off concluding it until they have investigated ALL avenues of potential crimes he may have committed dating back to his early adulthood!

MOO

antiquegirl
05-01-2010, 12:12 PM
It's extremely unlikely that he just started up his activities out-of-the-blue in 2006/2007. If they are currently trying to come to an agreement, I hope that they take their time and hold off concluding it until they have investigated ALL avenues of potential crimes he may have committed dating back to his early adulthood!

MOO

If RW pleads, or is found, guilty, the Crown already has enough to put him away for the maximum 25 year sentence. While LE may or may not stop investigating B & Es, there is no statute of limitations on murder and they will continue to investigate unsolved cases. If any can be linked to RW, there will be further charges. Even after he's convicted and sentenced, he can still be charged with more crimes. LE doesn't just give up on unsolved murders.

Pink Panther
05-01-2010, 03:06 PM
If RW pleads, or is found, guilty, the Crown already has enough to put him away for the maximum 25 year sentence. While LE may or may not stop investigating B & Es, there is no statute of limitations on murder and they will continue to investigate unsolved cases. If any can be linked to RW, there will be further charges. Even after he's convicted and sentenced, he can still be charged with more crimes. LE doesn't just give up on unsolved murders.
Agreed. However, if they are currently working out a plea and if they already have some sort of evidence regarding other crimes, it is more likely that he will be willing to share information now that there may be something to be gained than later when all is said and done.

MOO

Hazel
05-04-2010, 12:00 AM
Hazel, I came across some more cases. This one you've already read:

June 4, 2008: Half-naked woman found slain near a bike bath in Britannia Park, Ottawa; age 39.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/04/12/ottawa-kosmack-reward-slaying.html (see sidebar articles)
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=bfc13ea1-9b6a-489c-80a4-22c2c5509991

I initially mistook that incident for this one:

May 4, 2008: Woman, about 30, found naked and injured in Carlington Park.

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=7733a3bc-540d-4041-b250-cff0eb9786c6&k=41960

There you have it. Exactly one month apart, both in parks. Then on March 3, 2010, this incident in Gatineau:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Woman+critically+burned+Gatineau+Park+mystery/2634227/story.html

That particular time of the month is rather dangerous for women who enter parks anywhere near Ottawa. I'm not suggesting that all murder cases everywhere are related. Parks are dangerous. Strangely enough, the victim in this case in Etobicoke is 28. Is this some kind of target age?

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/toronto/archive/2010/04/23/woman-found-near-death-in-etobicoke-park-a-true-mystery.aspx
Heard about the first 3 cases; haven't heard about the Etobicoke one.

I posted about the Gatineau case in Lachlan's thread, when the unidentified body was found where the Gatineau River and Ottawa River meet.

Pamela Kosmack was found not too far from RW's new Westboro home (but he had not purchased that property at the time, so he must have been living in Orleans when Pamela was murdered). Somehow, I don't think it is his doing, but I could be totally wrong.
LE said they believe Pamela was killed where she was found, which is not that far from where she lived.

Now, the Carlington case is the one I was referring to in my post in RW's thread. That one IMHO looks more like something RW could have done. So far, there hasn't been any mention of that incident in the media in relation to him.
AFAIK, there hasn't been any updates on the recovery of the victim, and if she eventually remembered what had happened or if she had been identified, since she couldn't remember anything at the time.

dotr
05-04-2010, 12:42 AM
Posted 14 hours ago
http://www.aolnews.com/topic/russell-williams/?topicid=3038304949

Summersolstice
05-04-2010, 10:48 AM
Heard about the first 3 cases; haven't heard about the Etobicoke one.

I posted about the Gatineau case in Lachlan's thread, when the unidentified body was found where the Gatineau River and Ottawa River meet.

Pamela Kosmack was found not too far from RW's new Westboro home (but he had not purchased that property at the time, so he must have been living in Orleans when Pamela was murdered). Somehow, I don't think it is his doing, but I could be totally wrong.
LE said they believe Pamela was killed where she was found, which is not that far from where she lived.

Now, the Carlington case is the one I was referring to in my post in RW's thread. That one IMHO looks more like something RW could have done. So far, there hasn't been any mention of that incident in the media in relation to him.
AFAIK, there hasn't been any updates on the recovery of the victim, and if she eventually remembered what had happened or if she had been identified, since she couldn't remember anything at the time.

I actually posted this in the JL thread for a reason, and not here. The Etobicoke case occurred very recently.

I was looking at a pattern of women being badly beaten/murdered and dumped in parks. In JL's case, she was found at a golf course. I wonder if there is some similarity between the cases above and the way JL was found? I don't believe this information is public knowledge.

In one of the cases above, mention was made of a pair of reading glasses being found nearby, and that the person who used them would have been a man in his 40s. That's not rocket science -- the 40s are when many people need reading glasses. But how did they know these belonged to a man? Style alone is not always an indicator. Was there DNA on the glasses? Were the glasses prescription? Etc.

Location of bodies/survivors, and their state of attire, etc. might be relevant. We are not learning much about the state of attire of the victims found recently. Could the bodies being found in waterways have entered the water in parks? And another thing: how long are training runs for marathons?

Is there any relevance in the age of about 28 (not all victims are this age)? Is there a general profile of female victims that makes this age important, or is it victim specific?

Summersolstice
05-04-2010, 10:59 AM
If RW pleads, or is found, guilty, the Crown already has enough to put him away for the maximum 25 year sentence. While LE may or may not stop investigating B & Es, there is no statute of limitations on murder and they will continue to investigate unsolved cases. If any can be linked to RW, there will be further charges. Even after he's convicted and sentenced, he can still be charged with more crimes. LE doesn't just give up on unsolved murders.

Life sentence is a minimum 25 years without eligibility for parole. Time served in custody before a conviction counts as double time served in sentencing. Then there is the Faint Hope Clause.

Could a military person who is found guilty of multiple murder charges and other major crimes against persons in a civilian court work out a transfer to a military prison?

dotr
05-04-2010, 11:00 AM
Today.1 hour ago. People in Centre Hastings deserve answers on Williams investigation

http://www.aolnews.com/topic/russell-williams/?topicid=3038304949
Bradley is curious how someone, alleged to be Williams, managed to move around and commit so many offences undetected. She said the latest bombshell report makes her think that investigators have "jsut started to scratch the surface."

nobodyzgirl
05-04-2010, 11:44 AM
Life sentence is a minimum 25 years without eligibility for parole. Time served in custody before a conviction counts as double time served in sentencing. Then there is the Faint Hope Clause.

Could a military person who is found guilty of multiple murder charges and other major crimes against persons in a civilian court work out a transfer to a military prison?

BBM:

He could not get a transfer, the civilian justice system has jurisdiction over the military. Also, serious offenders in the military with sentences longer than 2 years are transferred to the Canadian federal prison system after serving 729 days in a military prison, to complete their sentence. He's also been relieved of his duties and if he is convicted, he will be discharged from the military anyway, so there would be no way for him to apply for a transfer (even if it was possible, which it's not).

I think that the "time served" rule has recently been changed and that the courts may only count on a one-for-one basis, unless “the circumstances justify” granting the prisoner 1 1/2 days for every day in custody



3. Subsection 719(3) of the [Criminal Code] is replaced by the following:

(3) In determining the sentence to be imposed on a person convicted of an offence, a court may take into account any time spent in custody by the person as a result of the offence but the court shall limit any credit for that time to a maximum of one day for each day spent in custody.


The government is in the process of repealing the "faint hope clause", so by the time RW is even eligible to apply it will no longer exist.

antiquegirl
05-04-2010, 12:31 PM
BBM:

He could not get a transfer, the civilian justice system has jurisdiction over the military. Also, serious offenders in the military with sentences longer than 2 years are transferred to the Canadian federal prison system after serving 729 days in a military prison, to complete their sentence. He's also been relieved of his duties and if he is convicted, he will be discharged from the military anyway, so there would be no way for him to apply for a transfer (even if it was possible, which it's not).

I think that the "time served" rule has recently been changed and that the courts may only count on a one-for-one basis, unless “the circumstances justify” granting the prisoner 1 1/2 days for every day in custody

The government is in the process of repealing the "faint hope clause", so by the time RW is even eligible to apply it will no longer exist.


Thanks so much, NBG, for your always helpful professional input.

If convicted, RW would likely get the 25 year maximum sentence for each murder. In Canada, these are almost always served concurrently, but there's still the slight possibility that they could be served consecutively - meaning a total of 50 years for the two charges.

And then, is it not possible that he will be designated a "dangerous offender", as was PB? With the multitude of charges against him now, and probably more to come, I think that this could happen. If I understand this correctly, all he would need would be one more conviction of a violent or sexual offence (unless some or all of the 82 current charges already qualify for that category). If he gets this designation, he may be "subjected to an indeterminate prison sentence".

"Under current legislation, the Crown must prove that the individual qualifies as a dangerous offender; the proposed amendment would reverse the onus for individuals convicted of three violent offences– they would have to prove that despite the three convictions, they do not qualify as dangerous offenders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_offender

nobodyzgirl
05-04-2010, 02:42 PM
Thanks so much, NBG, for your always helpful professional input.

If convicted, RW would likely get the 25 year maximum sentence for each murder. In Canada, these are almost always served concurrently, but there's still the slight possibility that they could be served consecutively - meaning a total of 50 years for the two charges.

And then, is it not possible that he will be designated a "dangerous offender", as was PB? With the multitude of charges against him now, and probably more to come, I think that this could happen. If I understand this correctly, all he would need would be one more conviction of a violent or sexual offence (unless some or all of the 82 current charges already qualify for that category). If he gets this designation, he may be "subjected to an indeterminate prison sentence".

"Under current legislation, the Crown must prove that the individual qualifies as a dangerous offender; the proposed amendment would reverse the onus for individuals convicted of three violent offences– they would have to prove that despite the three convictions, they do not qualify as dangerous offenders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_offender

I think the Crown should be able to prove he's a violent offender. Who knows, maybe he'll be housed beside his old pal PB! LOL

flipflop
05-04-2010, 05:24 PM
http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2562100

This link has already been posted, but I wanted to point out the comment below the article.

Summersolstice
05-05-2010, 03:30 PM
Scroll down for it:

http://www.aidwyc.org/cases/

Notice any resemblance to cases now before the courts?

Summersolstice
05-05-2010, 03:39 PM
BBM:

He could not get a transfer, the civilian justice system has jurisdiction over the military. Also, serious offenders in the military with sentences longer than 2 years are transferred to the Canadian federal prison system after serving 729 days in a military prison, to complete their sentence. He's also been relieved of his duties and if he is convicted, he will be discharged from the military anyway, so there would be no way for him to apply for a transfer (even if it was possible, which it's not).

I think that the "time served" rule has recently been changed and that the courts may only count on a one-for-one basis, unless “the circumstances justify” granting the prisoner 1 1/2 days for every day in custody





The government is in the process of repealing the "faint hope clause", so by the time RW is even eligible to apply it will no longer exist.

Thank you for the information about military transfer rules.

Time served before sentencing is still double time elsewhere in Canada. Again, is it one of those rules that apply at the time of the charge? I assume this trial will be a federal court, rather than provincial?

Would the Faint Hope Clause still apply to those charged/found guilty before it's repealed? I know that charges laid for old crimes are subject to the laws in place at the time of a crime. Would this apply to the FHC, too?

Summersolstice
05-05-2010, 03:42 PM
Thanks so much, NBG, for your always helpful professional input.

If convicted, RW would likely get the 25 year maximum sentence for each murder. In Canada, these are almost always served concurrently, but there's still the slight possibility that they could be served consecutively - meaning a total of 50 years for the two charges.

And then, is it not possible that he will be designated a "dangerous offender", as was PB? With the multitude of charges against him now, and probably more to come, I think that this could happen. If I understand this correctly, all he would need would be one more conviction of a violent or sexual offence (unless some or all of the 82 current charges already qualify for that category). If he gets this designation, he may be "subjected to an indeterminate prison sentence".

"Under current legislation, the Crown must prove that the individual qualifies as a dangerous offender; the proposed amendment would reverse the onus for individuals convicted of three violent offences– they would have to prove that despite the three convictions, they do not qualify as dangerous offenders."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_offender

I do not recall anyone in Canada in recent history serving consecutive terms for murders. Can anyone provide such an example?

sillybilly
05-05-2010, 06:37 PM
Time served before sentencing is still double time elsewhere in Canada. Again, is it one of those rules that apply at the time of the charge? I assume this trial will be a federal court, rather than provincial?
<snip>

The "Truth in Sentencing Act" that deals with time served is as set out by nbg above, and came into effect February 22, 2010 ... it is not retroactive :(

Murder is not a provincial offence. It is punishable under the Criminal Code of Canada and the trial would be held in the Supreme Court of Ontario. Any appeals of a verdict would be in the Ontario Court of Appeal with final leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada.

sillybilly
05-05-2010, 07:36 PM
Time served before sentencing is still double time elsewhere in Canada. Again, is it one of those rules that apply at the time of the charge? I assume this trial will be a federal court, rather than provincial?
<snip>

The "Truth in Sentencing Act" that deals with time served in pre-trial custody is as set out by nbg above, and came into effect February 22, 2010 ... it is not retroactive :( .. therefore, my interpretation is that it will not apply to RW because he was charged Feb 7 (iirc) and thus in pre-trial custody before Feb 22.

Murder is punishable under the Criminal Code of Canada and is not simply a provincial offence. The trial would be held in the Supreme Court of Ontario with any appeals of a verdict being held in the Ontario Court of Appeal. Final leave to appeal is with the Supreme Court of Canada.

nobodyzgirl
05-05-2010, 10:00 PM
<snip>

The "Truth in Sentencing Act" that deals with time served in pre-trial custody is as set out by nbg above, and came into effect February 22, 2010 ... it is not retroactive :( .. therefore, my interpretation is that it will not apply to RW because he was charged Feb 7 (iirc) and thus in pre-trial custody before Feb 22.

Murder is punishable under the Criminal Code of Canada and is not simply a provincial offence. The trial would be held in the Supreme Court of Ontario with any appeals of a verdict being held in the Ontario Court of Appeal. Final leave to appeal is with the Supreme Court of Canada.

BBM:

SB - I think you mean the Supreme Court of Canada, there is no Supreme Court of Ontario anymore, it's now called Ontario Superior Court.

The "time served" during custody is really at the discretion of the judge, and if the media is correct and he's going to plead guilty, he'll get the maximum sentence and won't be able to appeal any decision that is handed down. I suspect his stay in prison will be short lived because I can see him actually attempting and suceeding at suicide once sentencing is done - though that's just MOO.

dotr
05-06-2010, 08:57 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/805300--accused-colonel-kept-tabs-on-police-probe

Today's paper although dated May 5

antiquegirl
05-06-2010, 10:39 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/805300--accused-colonel-kept-tabs-on-police-probe

Today's paper although dated May 5

Thanks, dotr. I just finished reading this article in the actual newspaper.

Since joining WS just over a year ago, I have closely followed four Ontario cases: Tori Stafford's, Mariam Makhniashvili's, Jessica Lloyd's, and Deborah Rashotte's. I read every single media report multiple times and have made close to 3000 posts. (DR's sad situation was eventually ruled a tragic accident and therefore is ruled out of the equation IMO. In the case of MM, there are unfortunately no suspects.)

Today's article in The Star again reminded me of something I consider significant: That is, that far more information has emerged publicly about this investigation and the suspect than any of the above cases - most notably, the VS case (even before the publication ban). A veritable encyclopedia of facts, professional and personal details about the accused, and details about the crimes have been made public. A book deal has already been signed and is in the works. Even the word "alleged" has seldom cropped up.

Both LE and the Armed Forces have been relatively forthcoming about releasing what evidence has been discovered, how is was discovered, and where. Extensive history of the accused's professional and private lives has been out there for public consumption and is ongoing. No secrets have been (apparently) kept about his demeanor, his suicide attempt, his suicide note, or his expected plea of guilty.

It doesn't appear that any of the media has even the slightest fear of possible future libel suits or that LE is at all worried about a tainted jury or a mistrial to come. Contrast all this with the secrecy and ban surrounding the VS case - a case that also has suspects in jail and about to face at least one trial. Virtually nothing has been made public about that case - not during the investigation, nor since the arrests.

So, how can there be even the slightest doubt about this man's confession, his guilt, or the future outcome of what is sure to be a guilty plea? I know I have none ... none whatsoever.

JMO

sillybilly
05-06-2010, 01:47 PM
BBM:

SB - I think you mean the Supreme Court of Canada, there is no Supreme Court of Ontario anymore, it's now called Ontario Superior Court.

The "time served" during custody is really at the discretion of the judge, and if the media is correct and he's going to plead guilty, he'll get the maximum sentence and won't be able to appeal any decision that is handed down. I suspect his stay in prison will be short lived because I can see him actually attempting and suceeding at suicide once sentencing is done - though that's just MOO.

<bbm>

Sorry, it's been a while .. they changed it without telling me ?? !! :)

Okay then, if it's just a matter of a name change from SCO to OSC, is it not still correct that the trial itself would be held in the OSC rather than the SCC, with leave to appeal on up to the SCC?

Havent' had time to read it all, but my understanding with the new law is that the judge's discretion is now limited to circumstances of the case.

ITA with you nbg that RW will probably suicide somewhere along the line. I wonder if he'll go into GP. With his superiority attitude, that should be interesting.

Summersolstice
05-06-2010, 02:21 PM
<bbm>

Sorry, it's been a while .. they changed it without telling me ?? !! :)

Okay then, if it's just a matter of a name change from SCO to OSC, is it not still correct that the trial itself would be held in the OSC rather than the SCC, with leave to appeal on up to the SCC?

Havent' had time to read it all, but my understanding with the new law is that the judge's discretion is now limited to circumstances of the case.

ITA with you nbg that RW will probably suicide somewhere along the line. I wonder if he'll go into GP. With his superiority attitude, that should be interesting.

Suicide is such an interesting topic when it comes to the military.

nobodyzgirl
05-06-2010, 02:41 PM
<bbm>

Sorry, it's been a while .. they changed it without telling me ?? !! :)

Okay then, if it's just a matter of a name change from SCO to OSC, is it not still correct that the trial itself would be held in the OSC rather than the SCC, with leave to appeal on up to the SCC?

Havent' had time to read it all, but my understanding with the new law is that the judge's discretion is now limited to circumstances of the case.

ITA with you nbg that RW will probably suicide somewhere along the line. I wonder if he'll go into GP. With his superiority attitude, that should be interesting.

Don't you hate it when they change the names of the courts and then don't bother to tell you about it! LOL

You are correct, the trial would be heard at the superior court level, then appealed into the Ontario Court of appeals, and then the final appeal would be heard at the Supreme Court.

It will definitely be interesting to see whether he goes into GP or not and which federal prison he'll eventually be housed in. The more I read about him the creepier he becomes.

flipflop
05-06-2010, 04:55 PM
[QUOTE=dotr;5152548]http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/805300--accused-colonel-kept-tabs-on-police-probe

Today's paper although dated May 5

WOW, I cannot believe the amount of info that is being released regarding this case. I agree with AG when comparing this case with VS case. EVERYTHING and anything was so tight lipped in the VS case. After reading the above article, EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING is written in the media for public display. This tells me that there is alot more to the story in the VS case, we actually know nothing (except that VS was walking away with the woman in the white coat and was discovered just outside of Mt.Forest.)
We have heard alot of rumours...seen at home depot, seen at carwash, driving in MR's car, she was taken for drug debt and about another 100 to go along with these ones)
We have had no updates on how TLM or MR are even coping in jail, but we are hearing lots about RW...suicide attempt, hunger strike, etc.
The RW case, we pretty well know everything: from him sending condolences to his victims families, to how he broke into homes, what he took and did inside the homes, what he said to the women that he raped, etc. We know alot of details on this case.

The most chilling of the documents released is perhaps Williams’ letter of condolence to the Comeau family, offering help during this “very difficult time.
What a scumbag! I cannot imagine how her family must feel after they receive a caring email and then find out it was himself - RW that murdered their daughter.

The message was marked “significant occurrence” and kicked off a stream of messages that would keep Col. Russ Williams, her commander at Canadian Forces Base Trenton, abreast of the unfolding police probe, one that would lead months later to his stunning arrest
This makes me wonder what type of info and how much info he received on the investigation surrounding her death. He really must have felt untouchable with receiving updates from LE on the investigation.

Thank GOD he had unique tires on his pathfinder, if not this monster could still be at "it" and who knows how many other threads we would have started on his future victims.

Two more things...I wonder what reason he gave as to why he could not attend MC's funeral?
The date is confusing me with this : Word of Cpl. Marie France Comeau’s murder arrived in her alleged killer’s inbox at 12:13 a.m. on Nov. 26, 2009. She was found slain in her home on Nov 15th (or do I have the wrong date)

Wrong date printed...
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/762518--events-leading-to-col-russell-williams-arrest this is the link that I found the wrong date of Nov 15th.

Macright
05-06-2010, 06:03 PM
Marie Comeau's body was discovered Nov. 25/09..

LilyMacBloom
05-06-2010, 06:31 PM
Wow, I'm slightly stunned. I heard on the news a snippet of the link you posted Dotr (thankyou) and after reading the above link. I'm beginning to think part of the differance between the Col and TLM/MR is that the Col himself kept impeccable <spck records, which apparently seem to be available for public/reporter/viewing/knowledge.

I also can't help but make note of the differance in (how to put it) affluence/lifestyle??? between the two cases.

It is very interesting and intriguing how diff things are/have been handled.

Hats off to those of you for keeping your own immpecable records on this, you've done a great job.

Macright
05-06-2010, 07:47 PM
I think this crime is a first for the military where someone in such high command is charged with murder etc. The only other crime of any importance, with regards to military that I can think of is the Stephen Truscott crime back in the 60's of which he was eventually cleared and rightly so.

I am very surprised that the Toronto Star has obtained access to emails etc. from RW computer. especially one from his work..I would hope any sensitive info would have been cleaned by military security. It almost makes me think that the military is somehow responsible for this info being leaked out to general public and I believe there is a reason behind it. He is being shown as acting and going about his daily routine as normal after his nightly adventures. Who would have thought......

dotr
05-07-2010, 01:05 AM
2) If Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander of CFB Trenton, proceeds to trial on his numerous criminal charges, can his attempted suicide be introduced as part of the prosecution's case?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20100426/steven-skurka-column-100503/20100503?hub=Canada

Summersolstice
05-07-2010, 11:38 AM
I think this crime is a first for the military where someone in such high command is charged with murder etc. The only other crime of any importance, with regards to military that I can think of is the Stephen Truscott crime back in the 60's of which he was eventually cleared and rightly so.

I am very surprised that the Toronto Star has obtained access to emails etc. from RW computer. especially one from his work..I would hope any sensitive info would have been cleaned by military security. It almost makes me think that the military is somehow responsible for this info being leaked out to general public and I believe there is a reason behind it. He is being shown as acting and going about his daily routine as normal after his nightly adventures. Who would have thought......

All a little too convenient?

sillybilly
05-07-2010, 11:56 PM
Just a couple of observations on the RW email:

Marie France Comeau was found deceased around noon Nov 25, but RW received an email !! notifying him at 12:13 am Nov 26.

I notice in his Nov 26 response (looks like 6:41 am), at the bottom it says "sent from my wireless handheld device".

antiquegirl
05-08-2010, 12:19 AM
There has been an increasingly large number of short and/or cryptic posts that don't state their point. I'm not a mind reader and I don't have time to re-read all the previous posts to try to figure out what people are trying to say if they don't actually say it. This has become so frustrating that I basically ignore posts such as these and obviously cannot form an opinion or post a response. :waitasec:

Is it too much to ask that members state their opinions, their points, or their conclusions to clarify for the rest of us? TIA

JMO

sillybilly
05-08-2010, 12:49 AM
Sorry, I forgot to link to the article that contains the "Russell Williams Documents":

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/805300--accused-colonel-kept-tabs-on-police-probe

My points were:

1) there was an approx. 13 hrs timespan before MFC's commanding officer was notified of her death ... by an email no less, and

2) RW does in fact have a hand-held device that he sent emails from, which I believe is a fact we did not have before.

sillybilly
05-08-2010, 06:00 PM
Don't suppose any of us knows if RW wears contact lenses? Any pics we've seen of RW .. no eyeglasses. No real bright ideas here, but just pondering a guy RW's age NOT needing them.

Thinking about the unidentified "Bret Stone" found in DR in 2001 and the eyeglasses found with his body. There was another case of a female victim .. eyeglasses found near her body (can't recall the date, but i think Summer has it).

sillybilly
05-10-2010, 12:29 AM
Found an old pic of RW with tinted or vari-gray glasses:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/colonel-russell-williams-the-making-of-a-mystery-man/article1537412/

ETA: I've just tossed this in as a long shot here (and probably not related to RW), but given this incident was in Deep River 2001 ... when the unidentified "Bret Stone" was found deceased, there was a pair of glasses found with him:

from: http://canyouidentifyme.blogspot.com/2007/10/bret-stone-unidentified-male-found-deep.html


Plus my Eyeglasses that are for a near-sighted person and are described as follows:

Frame is "Koh Sakai"Model # is " KS9365"Colour is " 6CPR"Size is " 46-23-145" Right lens prescription is "2.50 -1.75 X 182"Left lens prescription is " 3.50 -1.00 X 008" There is a reflective coating on the lens which is said to be expensive.

BBM

It seems the coroner could not determine COD. Although the post-mortem pic shows "Bret" with the glasses on, I'm wondering if he was found wearing the glasses, or if they were just found in the general vicinity of his body but placed on him for the post-mortem pic in the hopes of aiding identification. The designer frames are handmade in Japan and distributed from Los Angeles, CA.

dotr
05-10-2010, 10:43 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/nl-military-sexual-assault-510.html

A Canadian Forces member from Newfoundland and Labrador will appear in court Monday, charged in connection with four sexual assaults on and near CFB Petawawa, northwest of Ottawa.

Cpl. Christopher Raymond Chaulk, whose home base is in St. John's, was charged Sunday with four counts of sexual assault and four counts of assault, said a news release from the Department of National Defence. He was scheduled to appear in court in Pembroke, Ont., at 9:30 a.m. Monday for a bail hearing.



Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/nl-military-sexual-assault-510.html#ixzz0nXPki3Em

Wondergirl
05-10-2010, 04:54 PM
First attempt at posting, have been reading a while.

I wonder what this monster's wife is thinking, now that she is being sued? Does anyone know what the legal ramifications are of the real estate transfer? Did that happen prior to the suicide attempt?

flipflop
05-10-2010, 05:02 PM
First attempt at posting, have been reading a while.

I wonder what this monster's wife is thinking, now that she is being sued? Does anyone know what the legal ramifications are of the real estate transfer? Did that happen prior to the suicide attempt?

His wife is being sued??? Is this rumour or fact? Who is suing her?

Wondergirl
05-10-2010, 05:05 PM
It is fact according to The Toronto Sun.

His Jane Doe victim of sexual assault, the one with the baby, is suing him and his wife.

dotr
05-10-2010, 05:10 PM
His wife is being sued??? Is this rumour or fact? Who is suing her?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html


The $2.45-million lawsuit also alleges Williams' wife was involved in the fraudulent transfer of Ottawa real estate in a effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim against Williams.

The suit alleges the real estate transaction took place on March 26 — some six weeks after Williams, former commander of CFB Trenton, was criminally charged in two sex assaults and the killings of two other women.



Woman sues Col. Williams
Last Updated: Monday, May 10, 2010 | 5:20 PM ET
The Canadian Press
Col. Russell Williams faces two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of two eastern Ontario women. (Alex Tavshunsky/CBC) An eastern Ontario woman is suing Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander now charged with killing two women, for an alleged sexual attack.

The 21-year-old plaintiff, identified only as Jane Doe,


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html#ixzz0nZ892s00


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html#ixzz0nYzFIm4I

Macright
05-10-2010, 06:52 PM
I hope the other victim sues along with the families of the two murdered girls. Cannot imagine what they must have suffered by the hands of this animal.

flipflop
05-10-2010, 08:01 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html


The $2.45-million lawsuit also alleges Williams' wife was involved in the fraudulent transfer of Ottawa real estate in a effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim against Williams.

The suit alleges the real estate transaction took place on March 26 — some six weeks after Williams, former commander of CFB Trenton, was criminally charged in two sex assaults and the killings of two other women.



Woman sues Col. Williams
Last Updated: Monday, May 10, 2010 | 5:20 PM ET
The Canadian Press
Col. Russell Williams faces two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of two eastern Ontario women. (Alex Tavshunsky/CBC) An eastern Ontario woman is suing Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander now charged with killing two women, for an alleged sexual attack.

The 21-year-old plaintiff, identified only as Jane Doe,


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html#ixzz0nZ892s00


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html#ixzz0nYzFIm4I

I guess this transfer of the Ottawa property explains why the frequent visits MEH made to the jail to see the scum bag. I feel for his wife, however, Jane Doe deserves every penny she can get out of this. Money will not fix things, but will sure help her to move forward and get the help and care that she needs. I hope the rest of his victims/families of victims follow the same suit as Jane Doe.

antiquegirl
05-10-2010, 08:47 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html


The $2.45-million lawsuit also alleges Williams' wife was involved in the fraudulent transfer of Ottawa real estate in a effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim against Williams.

The suit alleges the real estate transaction took place on March 26 — some six weeks after Williams, former commander of CFB Trenton, was criminally charged in two sex assaults and the killings of two other women.



Woman sues Col. Williams
Last Updated: Monday, May 10, 2010 | 5:20 PM ET
The Canadian Press
Col. Russell Williams faces two counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of two eastern Ontario women. (Alex Tavshunsky/CBC) An eastern Ontario woman is suing Col. Russell Williams, the former base commander now charged with killing two women, for an alleged sexual attack.

The 21-year-old plaintiff, identified only as Jane Doe,


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html#ixzz0nZ892s00


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/williams-civil-suit.html#ixzz0nYzFIm4I

I don't understand. How can he be sued for a crime for which he hasn't yet been convicted? :waitasec:

Snoopster
05-10-2010, 09:04 PM
I don't understand. How can he be sued for a crime for which he hasn't yet been convicted?

Is it because it would be a civil, rather than criminal, suit? Isn't this what happened in the O.J. case? He was found not guilty under his criminal case, however he was successfully sued in civil court for compensation.

margaret_diane
05-10-2010, 09:06 PM
I don't understand. How can he be sued for a crime for which he hasn't yet been convicted? :waitasec:

Its a civil suit - I don't believe a verdict of guilt in a criminal case needs to have been rendered before one can proceed in civil court.

Looking for links to support this, but as yet have only found reference to forfeiture laws...sighhh.

margaret_diane
05-10-2010, 09:12 PM
Found it!
A link that shows a breakdown of claims that can be made without a conviction in a sexual assault case (Ontario)

http://www.kawarthasexualassaultcentre.com/legaltwo.htm

Macright
05-10-2010, 09:40 PM
The fact that MEH did this leaves me with the thought that she is only looking out for herself which in turn shows no remorse or regard for the victims. He is still receiving his military pay monthly and there is a military pension owed to him. Whose bank account is this going into?

Hazel
05-10-2010, 10:13 PM
The fact that MEH did this leaves me with the thought that she is only looking out for herself which in turn shows no remorse or regard for the victims. He is still receiving his military pay monthly and there is a military pension owed to him. Whose bank account is this going into?
Excellent post Macright! Since we found out who was retained as a lawyer, I wondered why such an expensive one, if it seemed RW had somewhat confessed. It is now becoming apparent WHY, isn't it?
Great question about whose account is his pay going into? I would like to know what would happen in the case it is a joint account, and she spends it all (or transfers most of it), would she have to repay the military?

flipflop
05-10-2010, 10:24 PM
Excellent post Macright! Since we found out who was retained as a lawyer, I wondered why such an expensive one, if it seemed RW had somewhat confessed. It is now becoming apparent WHY, isn't it?
Great question about whose account is his pay going into? I would like to know what would happen in the case it is a joint account, and she spends it all (or transfers most of it), would she have to repay the military?

Perhaps this is why she was visiting the jail so frequently a few weeks back, probably getting a quick divorice and changing ownerships of property etc. Can civil suits still go after her if she has all of this done????

Hazel
05-10-2010, 10:26 PM
Question for our Legal experts :)

What will happen if now in turn MEH sells the property (or properties, since I'm thinking this could also apply to all properties/assets = cars, cottage, stocks, bonds, etc.)

flipflop
05-10-2010, 10:36 PM
I feel bad for MEH, she did not do this, IMO she was married to someone that she really didn't know. They did not spend every night coming home to the same house, which leads me to believe they did not have a REAL close relationship. She is still entitled to 1/2 of everything, she earns an honest living. I am not sure how I would feel or handle this if I were in her shoes, would you crawl into a hole and become depressed and do nothing, or try to keep your head held high, get your finances in order and your share in your name only. People are stating that she is showing no remorse from changing the property to her name, but what else could she do, she needs to live....

Hazel
05-10-2010, 10:41 PM
Perhaps this is why she was visiting the jail so frequently a few weeks back, probably getting a quick divorice and changing ownerships of property etc. Can civil suits still go after her if she has all of this done????
Exactly! can you imagine visiting your husband after finding out what he's been alleged to be doing all those nights?
I'll be disinfecting every he touched, burning all his pics, and feeling really ill and betrayed (in the event I had absolutely no idea something of this sort was going on ...hmmm, what about a woman's instincts?)
Visiting him to see how he is doing, feeling, coping? to offer him support? yeah right!

Hazel
05-10-2010, 11:19 PM
Just a couple of observations on the RW email:

Marie France Comeau was found deceased around noon Nov 25, but RW received an email !! notifying him at 12:13 am Nov 26.

I notice in his Nov 26 response (looks like 6:41 am), at the bottom it says "sent from my wireless handheld device".
Yes, that caught my eye! Hope that RW carried it with him at all times, and that it has a built-in GPS, and that LE got hold of that wireless hand-held device, and are able to do that triangulation thing they do. I'm sure you are thinking of Jan.18/19 ;)

Macright
05-10-2010, 11:22 PM
From the CBC site..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/20100510180452393.pdf

antiquegirl
05-10-2010, 11:23 PM
Perhaps this is why she was visiting the jail so frequently a few weeks back, probably getting a quick divorice and changing ownerships of property etc. Can civil suits still go after her if she has all of this done????

There is already a civil suit filed with her name on it.

The woman, identified only as Jane Doe, is also suing Williams's wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, claiming Williams fraudulently transferred an Ottawa property to his wife in an effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim.

http://cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100510/100510_williams/20100510/?hub=CP24Home

I'm not sure why the transfer would be considered "fraudulent". If he is still the legal owner of the property, doesn't he have the legal right to transfer the ownership to his wife (or anyone else, for that matter) as he wishes?

According to this article, "the real estate transaction took place on March 26", but we're not told when the suit was filed. But even if MW was aware of the suit when the transfer took place, I don't see why this would be illegal. We need the advice of an expert here.

antiquegirl
05-10-2010, 11:35 PM
From the CBC site..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/20100510180452393.pdf


There we go! (Thanks, Macright.) So, the property transfer took place a month and a half before the civil suit was filed. How could the transfer possibly be interpreted as "fraudulent"?

I agree with FF that MEH is also a victim here and that normally she is legally entitled to half of RW's assets if they divorced. Can her assets now be legally frozen to prevent her from selling anything?

IMO, if this couple had already filed for divorce, the media would have gotten wind of it the same way they obtained this other information and copies of the documents.

antiquegirl
05-10-2010, 11:47 PM
From the CBC site..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/20100510180452393.pdf

Here is a copy of the Fraudulent Conveyance Act mentioned in the civil suit against RW and MEH.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/stat/rso-1990-c-f29/latest/rso-1990-c-f29.html

2. Every conveyance of real property or personal property and every bond, suit, judgment and execution heretofore or hereafter made with intent to defeat, hinder, delay or defraud creditors or others of their just and lawful actions, suits, debts, accounts, damages, penalties or forfeitures are void as against such persons and their assigns. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.29, s. 2.

So, I interpret this as Jane Doe's attorney will have to prove that the couple were aware of the impending civil suit (dated May 10, 2010) and intentionally made the transfer to defeat it.

3. Section 2 does not apply to an estate or interest in real property or personal property conveyed upon good consideration and in good faith to a person not having at the time of the conveyance to the person notice or knowledge of the intent set forth in that section. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.29, s. 3.

I hope I'm understanding this properly.

Macright
05-11-2010, 12:08 AM
I think in this case Jane Doe will have the support of the public behind her and with the charges against Williams, the support of the courts. I am sure a settlement will be reached in favour of Jane Doe.

sillybilly
05-11-2010, 12:39 AM
There is already a civil suit filed with her name on it.

The woman, identified only as Jane Doe, is also suing Williams's wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, claiming Williams fraudulently transferred an Ottawa property to his wife in an effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim.

http://cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100510/100510_williams/20100510/?hub=CP24Home

I'm not sure why the transfer would be considered "fraudulent". If he is still the legal owner of the property, doesn't he have the legal right to transfer the ownership to his wife (or anyone else, for that matter) as he wishes?

According to this article, "the real estate transaction took place on March 26", but we're not told when the suit was filed. But even if MW was aware of the suit when the transfer took place, I don't see why this would be illegal. We need the advice of an expert here.

Um, no expert, but have some input :) Can't think of all the proper legal jargon, but ... any transfer of assets within one year prior to an action can be deemed to have been transferred to avoid legal claim or remedy and can be reversed by a judge.

Oh, just found the BC "Fraudulent Conveyance Act". Will try to find Ontario's:

http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws_new/document/ID/freeside/00_96163_01

antiquegirl
05-11-2010, 12:46 AM
I think in this case Jane Doe will have the support of the public behind her and with the charges against Williams, the support of the courts. I am sure a settlement will be reached in favour of Jane Doe.

I agree and believe she deserves a generous settlement. Just trying to understand the legalities involved.

sillybilly
05-11-2010, 12:47 AM
Looks like this is the Ontario Fraudulent Conveyance Act:

http://canlii.com/en/on/laws/stat/rso-1990-c-f29/latest/rso-1990-c-f29.html

As the transfer to MEH occurred prior to the Statement of Claim issued by Jane Doe, they will probably argue that it was done in good faith without any knowledge of the subsequent claim by Jane Doe. IMO though, MEH would have to have known that the potential for a civil action by any of the victims or victims' families was forthcoming simply based on the nature of the charges against RW.

ETA: I don't see anything in the current legislation regarding a specific timeframe (i.e. 1 year prior), so maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

antiquegirl
05-11-2010, 01:25 AM
Looks like this is the Ontario Fraudulent Conveyance Act:

http://canlii.com/en/on/laws/stat/rso-1990-c-f29/latest/rso-1990-c-f29.html

As the transfer to MEH occurred prior to the Statement of Claim issued by Jane Doe, they will probably argue that it was done in good faith without any knowledge of the subsequent claim by Jane Doe. IMO though, MEH would have to have known that the potential for a civil action by any of the victims or victims' families was forthcoming simply based on the nature of the charges against RW.

ETA: I don't see anything in the current legislation regarding a specific timeframe (i.e. 1 year prior), so maybe that doesn't apply anymore.

I beat you to it, SB. ;)

Since MEH is already named as one of the defendants in the civil suit, I think the date of the transfer to her shouldn't be an issue. She is already being sued. The problem would arise if she has already sold, or will sell, some of these assets. This is why I wondered if her assets could be garnisheed to prevent her selling them to a third party.

I'm no expert either, so this is just conjecture.

Hazel
05-11-2010, 02:02 AM
Here is a copy of the Fraudulent Conveyance Act mentioned in the civil suit against RW and MEH.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/stat/rso-1990-c-f29/latest/rso-1990-c-f29.html

2. Every conveyance of real property or personal property and every bond, suit, judgment and execution heretofore or hereafter made with intent to defeat, hinder, delay or defraud creditors or others of their just and lawful actions, suits, debts, accounts, damages, penalties or forfeitures are void as against such persons and their assigns. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.29, s. 2.

So, I interpret this as Jane Doe's attorney will have to prove that the couple were aware of the impending civil suit (dated May 10, 2010) and intentionally made the transfer to defeat it.

3. Section 2 does not apply to an estate or interest in real property or personal property conveyed upon good consideration and in good faith to a person not having at the time of the conveyance to the person notice or knowledge of the intent set forth in that section. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.29, s. 3.

I hope I'm understanding this properly.
Or maybe the other way around? The defendants have to prove they had no idea :rolleyes: it never occurred to them, nor the lawyer they retained ever adviced them, that one of the many victims could possibly, in a million years think of suing RW. :rolleyes:

By transfering all the property to her name, they are also protecting RW's half ... hmmm, let me think, who could they be trying to protect the property/assets from? Let me guess, could it be from his victims? Just a wild guess :innocent:

Hazel
05-11-2010, 02:12 AM
Question for our Legal experts :)

What will happen if now in turn MEH sells the property (or properties, since I'm thinking this could also apply to all properties/assets = cars, cottage, stocks, bonds, etc.)


I beat you to it, SB. ;)

Since MEH is already named as one of the defendants in the civil suit, I think the date of the transfer to her shouldn't be an issue. She is already being sued. The problem would arise if she has already sold, or will sell, some of these assets. This is why I wondered if her assets could be garnisheed to prevent her selling them to a third party.

I'm no expert either, so this is just conjecture.

he he, lol, I had already asked that question to our legal experts.

MEH could subsequently buy the property back for Can. $1.00 (well, not exactly, but you get my point) There are so many legal tricks, and their lawyer is a good one!

sillybilly
05-11-2010, 03:03 AM
Yes, that caught my eye! Hope that RW carried it with him at all times, and that it has a built-in GPS, and that LE got hold of that wireless hand-held device, and are able to do that triangulation thing they do. I'm sure you are thinking of Jan.18/19 ;)

Me thinking of Jan 18/19? Naw ;)

sillybilly
05-11-2010, 04:08 AM
I beat you to it, SB. ;)

I just studied it longer ;)

sillybilly
05-11-2010, 04:18 AM
By transfering all the property to her name, they are also protecting RW's half ... hmmm, let me think, who could they be trying to protect the property/assets from? Let me guess, could it be from his victims? Just a wild guess :innocent:
<snip>

To our knowledge, there are no divorce proceedings in the works between RW and MEH, so what OTHER reason would exist for any transfer of assets to take place at this time? I can't think of any, other than to avoid potential legal claims by the victims.

margaret_diane
05-11-2010, 07:35 AM
There is already a civil suit filed with her name on it.

The woman, identified only as Jane Doe, is also suing Williams's wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, claiming Williams fraudulently transferred an Ottawa property to his wife in an effort to defeat Jane Doe's claim.

http://cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100510/100510_williams/20100510/?hub=CP24Home

I'm not sure why the transfer would be considered "fraudulent". If he is still the legal owner of the property, doesn't he have the legal right to transfer the ownership to his wife (or anyone else, for that matter) as he wishes?

According to this article, "the real estate transaction took place on March 26", but we're not told when the suit was filed. But even if MW was aware of the suit when the transfer took place, I don't see why this would be illegal. We need the advice of an expert here.

Bold and red above by me for clarity:
The suit was filed on May 6, 2010.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/20100510180452393.pdf
Thats when its date stamped for...

margaret_diane
05-11-2010, 07:45 AM
There we go! (Thanks, Macright.) So, the property transfer took place a month and a half before the civil suit was filed. How could the transfer possibly be interpreted as "fraudulent"?

I agree with FF that MEH is also a victim here and that normally she is legally entitled to half of RW's assets if they divorced. Can her assets now be legally frozen to prevent her from selling anything?

IMO, if this couple had already filed for divorce, the media would have gotten wind of it the same way they obtained this other information and copies of the documents.

The transfer may well appear fraudulent in that it took place AFTER he was charged with the serious crimes. If it had happened BEFORE the arrests, then it probably couldn't be touched. However, the claim seems to hold that it is fraud because the intention of the transfer is to prevent victims from gaining financial support / benefit from such assets. It seems a DELIBERATE attempt to thwart any such civil suits (even those which had not yet been launched) from proceeding. One has to wonder if the transfer was made on the advice of a lawyer in anticipation of civil suits coming forward? I'll search canlii later for similar such cases, and see if there are any, and therefore any precedent.

margaret_diane
05-11-2010, 07:49 AM
There we go! (Thanks, Macright.) So, the property transfer took place a month and a half before the civil suit was filed. How could the transfer possibly be interpreted as "fraudulent"?

I agree with FF that MEH is also a victim here and that normally she is legally entitled to half of RW's assets if they divorced. Can her assets now be legally frozen to prevent her from selling anything?

IMO, if this couple had already filed for divorce, the media would have gotten wind of it the same way they obtained this other information and copies of the documents.

Wondering if a lawyer is encouraging them to stay married? Remember the whole law of privileged information. She cannot be expected to testify against her husband if they are still married. This brings up an interesting point -- if she stays married to him, I will wonder whether or not she had ANY knowledge even a hint of what her husband was up to. Staying married, and remaining off limits to certain questions is a good way to avoid culpability -- you would be less likely to trip up, and implicate yourself in any wrongdoing. I'm not accusing her. Just sayin.

antiquegirl
05-11-2010, 11:27 AM
<snip>

To our knowledge, there are no divorce proceedings in the works between RW and MEH, so what OTHER reason would exist for any transfer of assets to take place at this time? I can't think of any, other than to avoid potential legal claims by the victims.

(BBM)

Again, I don't know much about the law, but could another reason be that they are pretty confident that RW is going to be spending at least the next 25 years in prison? That MEH would probably never want to live in either that house or cottage again and would want to sell both and with sole ownership simplifying the sales? Could MEH be concerned that RW might attempt suicide again and succeed, further tying up the distribution of assets?

Just guessing here how their lawyer may defend this suit.

JMO

antiquegirl
05-11-2010, 11:42 AM
Or maybe the other way around? The defendants have to prove they had no idea :rolleyes: it never occurred to them, nor the lawyer they retained ever adviced them, that one of the many victims could possibly, in a million years think of suing RW. :rolleyes:

By transfering all the property to her name, they are also protecting RW's half ... hmmm, let me think, who could they be trying to protect the property/assets from? Let me guess, could it be from his victims? Just a wild guess :innocent:

(BBM)

The burden of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) is always on the prosecution.

... the presumption of innocence places a legal burden upon the prosecution to prove all elements of the offence (generally beyond a reasonable doubt) and to disprove all the defences

The burden of proof may only be fulfilled by evidence.

However, there is this strategy:

To prove something by "clear and convincing evidence", the party with the burden of proof must convince the trier of fact that it is substantially more likely than not that the thing is in fact true. This is a lesser requirement than "proof beyond a reasonable doubt", which requires that the trier of fact be close to certain of the truth of the matter asserted, but a stricter requirement than proof by "preponderance of the evidence," which merely requires that the matter asserted seem more likely true than not.

If the prosecution can present sufficient evidence to the courts, the onus shifts to the defence to disprove the charges.

An "evidentiary burden" or "burden of leading evidence" is an obligation that shifts between parties over the course of the hearing or trial. A party may submit evidence that the court will consider prima facie evidence of some state of affairs. This creates an evidentiary burden upon the opposing party to present evidence to refute the presumption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof

nobodyzgirl
05-11-2010, 12:21 PM
(BBM)

Again, I don't know much about the law, but could another reason be that they are pretty confident that RW is going to be spending at least the next 25 years in prison? That MEH would probably never want to live in either that house or cottage again and would want to sell both and with sole ownership simplifying the sales? Could MEH be concerned that RW might attempt suicide again and succeed, further tying up the distribution of assets?

Just guessing here how their lawyer may defend this suit.

JMO

A lot of this depends on how the properties were owned. If it was joint ownership, and RW tries and succeeds at suicide, then ownership is automatically transferred to MEH, so it wouldn't be drawn out. They just need a copy of the death certificate and file documents changing title solely to her name. If it was sole ownership in his name only, then they may have wanted title transferred in her name, because if he does succeed in suicide, unless he has a will, it turns into a legal nightmare.

MOO is that they have added MEH as party to the civil action so that the assets that have been transferred over to her (from her husband) will be frozen and she is unable to sell them until judgement is reached. It's a standard legal procedure no doubt. I feel sorry for MEH, first she's had to deal with her husband's other life, now she's getting dragged into court because of him.

Summersolstice
05-11-2010, 02:14 PM
General information:

There are legal strategies called asset protection planning, or creditor-proofing your assets. Certain lawyers and chartered accountancy firms specialize in this kind of work.

http://www.canadian-lawyers.ca/understand-your-legal-issue/wills-and-estates/1027674/
http://www.hg.org/articles/article_755.html

Assets include things like retirement savings, pension funds and CPP, insurance policies, in addition to real estate, etc. Strategies include setting up trust accounts, numbered accounts, offshore accounts, numbered companies, holding companies, etc. Trust accounts held offshore can be particularly useful.

Another thing to consider would be the laws of other countries, or even the difference in Canada between common law and civil law. Quebec follows a different legal system. Even if it is proven that a fraudulent transfer of property occurred, getting it back is quite another thing. Transferring property to a spouse after being charged with criminal acts appears on the surface to show intent to protect assets.

dotr
05-11-2010, 02:44 PM
Maybe if the childless spouse of the mouse read statements like this one from CP24 she would not want to keep a penny to herself.

the woman was terrified Williams would kill her and/or her baby, she claims.

"The conduct of the defendant was harsh, vindictive, malicious, horrific and reprehensible," the statement of claim reads.

Hazel
05-11-2010, 11:00 PM
First attempt at posting, have been reading a while.

I wonder what this monster's wife is thinking, now that she is being sued? Does anyone know what the legal ramifications are of the real estate transfer? Did that happen prior to the suicide attempt?
A bit of Timeline (to refresh our memories), and in answer to you question (in bold) yes, that seems to be the case:

Property transfered = on or about Friday, March 26, 2010

RW attempts suicide = Saturday, Apr. 03, 2010 - 5 am
Published on Sunday, Apr. 04, 2010 9:38PM EDT
Sources at the Quinte Detention Centre in Napanee, Ont., tell the Kingston Whig-Standard that at roughly 5 a.m. Saturday the accused serial sex killer wrote a suicide note in mustard on the wall of his segregation cell
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/accused-sex-killer-col-russell-williams-attempts-jailhouse-suicide/article1522610/

Tuesday, Apr. 6, 2010
Sources at Quinte say Williams, who is still receiving regular visits from his wife each week,

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/04/05/13474756-qmi.html

Summersolstice
05-12-2010, 10:33 AM
A bit of Timeline (to refresh our memories), and in answer to you question (in bold) yes, that seems to be the case:

Property transfered = on or about Friday, March 26, 2010

RW attempts suicide = Saturday, Apr. 03, 2010 - 5 am

I've posted this elsewhere, but it is relevant here:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...urt-appearance

"Williams’s wife, Mary Elizabeth Harriman, has been assigned a “full-time” military assisting officer to “help her through the myriad of administrative procedures,” said O’Keefe. "The Canadian Forces’ position is that she, too, is a victim in this and our hearts and sympathies are with her as well as with any other Canadian family that has been affected,” he said."

I do have a hard time imagining how the alleged trauma of the alleged victims in any way compares to the alleged trauma of RW's wife. What is the "myriad of administrative procedures" involved in being married to a military officer who is an alleged murderer and alleged perpetrator of sexual assaults? Surely any administrative procedures would be between the officer and the military only, if the spouse and said officer did not occupy a residence on the base?

antiquegirl
05-12-2010, 11:00 AM
I've posted this elsewhere, but it is relevant here:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...urt-appearance

"Williams’s wife, Mary Elizabeth Harriman, has been assigned a “full-time” military assisting officer to “help her through the myriad of administrative procedures,” said O’Keefe. "The Canadian Forces’ position is that she, too, is a victim in this and our hearts and sympathies are with her as well as with any other Canadian family that has been affected,” he said."

I do have a hard time imagining how the alleged trauma of the alleged victims in any way compares to the alleged trauma of RW's wife. What is the "myriad of administrative procedures" involved in being married to a military officer who is an alleged murderer and alleged perpetrator of sexual assaults? Surely any administrative procedures would be between the officer and the military only, if the spouse and said officer did not occupy a residence on the base?

(Red by me)

The quotation merely states that MEH is also a victim of this man and his alleged crimes (with which I agree). I see no comparison in severity to the suffering of the other victims. I doubt that Col. O'Keeffe is implying that they are on equal footing.

JMO

Belinda
05-12-2010, 11:08 AM
Are they so sure that she didn't know what was going on? I find it difficult to believe that she had no idea, with the level and sheer volume of offenses this man has committed.

Summersolstice
05-12-2010, 11:32 AM
(Red by me)

The quotation merely states that MEH is also a victim of this man and his alleged crimes (with which I agree). I see no comparison in severity to the suffering of the other victims. I doubt that Col. O'Keeffe is implying that they are on equal footing.

JMO

And I can only go by what the words say.

Wondergirl
05-12-2010, 12:57 PM
If RW signed divorce papers, and agreed to ALL marital assets being assigned to MEH, then could this not be construed as an attempt to divert assets that would not under "normal" divorce circumstances be hers (thus naming her as a defendant in the civil lawsuit)?

Wondergirl
05-12-2010, 01:07 PM
I interpret the following sentence to mean that RW had taken care of his marital paperwork, since MEH had been visiting him in the jail.

"The note was a farewell message saying his affairs are now in order and his feelings are too much to bear."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/04/05/williams-apparent-suicide-reports.html#ixzz0nmamTgGU

antiquegirl
05-12-2010, 01:10 PM
If RW signed divorce papers, and agreed to ALL marital assets being assigned to MEH, then could this not be construed as an attempt to divert assets that would not under "normal" divorce circumstances be hers (thus naming her as a defendant in the civil lawsuit)?

Quite possibly, in my opinion. Except that these are not "normal" divorce circumstances. If convicted, RW will be spending at least the next 25 years in prison, with no necessity or use for any financial assets. That is, if MEH is willing to pay for his legal defence, which may not amount to much if he pleads guilty and no trial ensues.

I still believe that if divorce papers had already been signed, the media would have gotten hold of them. Although, this news could break at any time.

JMO

Wondergirl
05-12-2010, 01:10 PM
I do believe that our own Government has a vested interest in the outcome of any civil litigation also:

But no matter how long Williams continues to pull in thousands a month, the Canadian Forces said it will claw it all back if he's convicted of two counts of murder and sexual assault.

"If found guilty, a member must reimburse pay received while held in custody," spokeswoman Carole Brown said in an e-mail to QMI Agency.

Williams is getting paid because he's still a member of the Canadian Forces, she said.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2528153&auth=

Wondergirl
05-12-2010, 01:15 PM
Quite possibly, in my opinion. Except that these are not "normal" divorce circumstances. If convicted, RW will be spending at least the next 25 years in prison, with no necessity or use for any financial assets. That is, if MEH is willing to pay for his legal defence, which may not amount to much if he pleads guilty and no trial ensues.

I still believe that if divorce papers had already been signed, the media would have gotten hold of them. Although, this news could break at any time.

JMO

What I mean by "normal" in my previous post, is that "normally" a spouse would NOT sign over ALL of their marital assets to the other spouse. It is atypical. Which is where the fraudulent allegation comes in, I guess.

I do agree with you here, Antiquegirl, that their divorce will not be normal in any way, given the circumstances.

Wondergirl
05-12-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't think this article has been referenced here yet. It gives a few more details:

The statement claims the "secret" conveyance of the property by Williams to his wife's name was "an effort to defeat the ...plaintiff's claim" against Williams and one made in "unusual haste." Included in the claims are injunctions to freeze the assets of the defendants and for the couple to provide a sworn statement of their financial assets, along with a certificate of pending litigation for the premises.

A check of municipal land registry documents for Tweed show the cottage on Cosy Cove Lane where Williams lived is still registered in the colonel's name.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2572431

Macright
05-12-2010, 04:14 PM
The SOB has a smirk on his face in most of his pictures. He must be still smirking thinking by the act of signing off all his assets that he has once again beat the system. IMO this makes MEH as guilty as he is in this instance. Greed on her part comes to mind.

Pink Panther
05-12-2010, 04:23 PM
I don't have any information about laws in Canada regarding this issue but I find it hard to believe that he (RW) can carry out any transfer of property while in prison for a crime that he has possibly committed without it being re-considered once a verdict is reached as to his guilt or innocence. If he's innocent, his transaction will go through...If he's guilty, I highly doubt that it will be allowed. The outcome of this particular situation will without question, await his trial/sentencing and cannot reasonably be resolved until that has transpired. The victim's lawyer is without question laying reasonable claim on a consideration that will have to wait.

MOO

ETA - MEH will soon need to get herself a lawyer with PR experience. If she doesn't, one can already see the fallout she will have to put up with. Again - just my opinion.

flipflop
05-12-2010, 04:24 PM
The SOB has a smirk on his face in most of his pictures. He must be still smirking thinking by the act of signing off all his assets that he has once again beat the system. IMO this makes MEH as guilty as he is in this instance. Greed on her part comes to mind.

MEH is not guilty IMO, she did nothing.
What would you do if you were in her shoes. She had nothing to do with his alleged crimes, she is innocent (IMO), if I were her I would be getting my things in order, in my name and cutting all ties that I had to that monster and trying my hardest to keep my head held high and to move forward. I do not put any blame on MEH at all, I feel she needs to look after herself! I can't imagine how horrible she feels for the victims of RW.

flipflop
05-12-2010, 04:34 PM
Are they so sure that she didn't know what was going on? I find it difficult to believe that she had no idea, with the level and sheer volume of offenses this man has committed.

He had this life hidden from everyone for years. His co-workers in the military could not believe it, those first reports in the media had everyone in disbelief, no one suspected a thing. RW and MEH did not live together full time from what we read in the media. Who knows what kind of relationship they had...IMO he had a split personality to pull all of this off for so long with no one suspecting him. Go back and read the dates and times of his rapes/murders, he carried on in life as if nothing happened. He played "his game" well, Remember back to the break ins on Cozy Cove, everyone was interviewed, but not RW, his career role held him on a pedestal and no on suspected him. Therefore, I believe his wife knew nothing and saw nothing. I feel he had some type of military office that he kept under lock and key and this is where he hid his panty collection. If your husband of a high rank in the military told you that the office holds military top secret stuff, you would not think twice about it and stay away from that office. I truly feel that he had EVERYONE fooled and knew how to cover his tracks....except for the ones in the snow!

Pink Panther
05-12-2010, 05:08 PM
These "people" (psychopaths, sociopaths, anti-social personality disordered - whatever one wants to call them) live outside the boundaries of rules that "normal" people can comprehend. MEH may well have had doubts about him, hints that things were askew but what normal person in their right mind could possibly imagine that the "odd" behaviour meant that their husband/friend/companion/partner (whatever he may have been to her) was out stealing panties and molesting women when he said he was going for a jog!??? I do think that this woman had signs and probably noticed odd things but I also believe that she most probably couldn't have come to the conclusion that he was what he has seemingly turned out to be.

MOO

ETA - I still think that she needs to get herself a good lawyer who is well versed in cases that require PR experience. She has been able to hide for now but it won't last long and she needs solid representation with good media skills if she expects to come out without scrutiny/minimal media exposure.

flipflop
05-12-2010, 06:24 PM
I think the H and S organization( where MEH was an executive)need to get someone for damage control and to handle the media blitz which surely will ensue when the trial begins.
I wonder if MEH was aware that something was "off" and maybe if she discovered lingerie,she thought R.W. was actually a crossdresser.

A crossdresser would certainly be alot easier to deal with, instead of a crossdresser she got a psychotic murdering-rapist who stoled womans panties, she has been living with and trusting this man for the past few years...the thought of that just makes me ill, I really feel for MEH and RW's victims/families, no ones deserves this.

Macright
05-12-2010, 07:44 PM
I understand what you are saying about MEH and her innocence in regards to the evil ones crimes. I don't doubt for a minute that she knew anything about what he was up to. Most wives married to anyone in the military, especially if their work entails top secret "stuff" learn very early on not to question them about anything work related. Sometimes their clearances are so high that they can't even "talk to themselves". I've been there done that so to speak. This perp would have had the usual kit box etc. filled with whatever and kept under lock and key and she probably would never think to look in it so I wonder if this is where he hid his "loot".. but..in this latest instance I think she is more than looking out for herself and her alone in order to prevent just what is taking place right now. That leaves me to think she is out for her and her alone. In any marriage in Canada she would be entitled to her 50% of assets but it seems she wants it all..I can understand now why she hired this slick lawyer. As I posted previously, I hope each one of his victims and their families sue him to the hilt!

Macright
05-12-2010, 07:50 PM
I think the H and S organization( where MEH was an executive)need to get someone for damage control and to handle the media blitz which surely will ensue when the trial begins.
I wonder if MEH was aware that something was "off" and maybe if she discovered lingerie,she thought R.W. was actually a crossdresser.

I agree..I have stopped buying their lottery tickets as I associate it with this SOB (RW).. I know that is not fair but until I feel differently about it I will continue to not support them!

antiquegirl
05-12-2010, 09:10 PM
MEH is not guilty IMO, she did nothing.
What would you do if you were in her shoes. She had nothing to do with his alleged crimes, she is innocent (IMO), if I were her I would be getting my things in order, in my name and cutting all ties that I had to that monster and trying my hardest to keep my head held high and to move forward. I do not put any blame on MEH at all, I feel she needs to look after herself! I can't imagine how horrible she feels for the victims of RW.

ITA. Thank you, flipflop.

I totally imagine RW being very successful at hiding his secrets. A few locked drawers, boxes, and an office with a key is all he needed. His military position was a perfect excuse for privacy. Sociopaths leave no verbal or demeanor clues. They pull the wool over everyone's eyes until they're caught.

As for MEH needing PR, I really don't believe that's going to be necessary. She's not running for public office. Did PB and KH's parents need to hire PR representation? What for? As long as MEH continues to refuse media interviews, she has nothing to worry about. Even if she decides to grant some interviews, she's an educated, intelligent woman who can probably handle herself just fine on her own.

MEH has barely even been photographed. All she needs to do is change her name and get a new job (if she needs one). Unless LE has proof that she knew what her husband had been up to and makes this public, she has nothing to fear or be ashamed of. I have only sympathy for her until I hear evidence that I shouldn't.

JMO

Macright
05-12-2010, 09:21 PM
not sure if this was posted on this thread but here goes anyway.

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/793456--michael-edelson-go-to-guy-for-people-in-big-trouble-with-the-law

flipflop
05-12-2010, 10:17 PM
I agree..I have stopped buying their lottery tickets as I associate it with this SOB (RW).. I know that is not fair but until I feel differently about it I will continue to not support them!

I'm sorry you feel this way?!? So you are not supporting H & S because RW was associated with it... Does that mean that you do not support the Canadian Military as RW was associated with it???? The military and MEH did not do this, RW and RW alone did this. He deserves all the blame!

Macright
05-12-2010, 10:43 PM
I'm sorry you feel this way?!? So you are not supporting H & S because RW was associated with it... Does that mean that you do not support the Canadian Military as RW was associated with it???? The military and MEH did not do this, RW and RW alone did this. He deserves all the blame!

I really don't know at this time exactly how I feel about the military..strange because I had a strong connection with the military for a long time and the association and connection is still part of my life but I do have a difficult time separating the "military from RW". As far as my feeling towards MEH go, I guess to be truthful I will just say, "how could she not know"..did he really pull the wool over her eyes too. I did feel badly for her for awhile but after reading the latest about the transfer of his assets etc. my feelings have changed somewhat.

flipflop
05-12-2010, 10:50 PM
I really don't know at this time exactly how I feel about the military..strange because I had a strong connection with the military for a long time and the association and connection is still part of my life but I do have a difficult time separating the "military from RW". As far as my feeling towards MEH go, I guess to be truthful I will just say, "how could she not know"..did he really pull the wool over her eyes too. I did feel badly for her for awhile but after reading the latest about the transfer of his assets etc. my feelings have changed somewhat.

I feel for MEH and I still do. IMO and after reading the links, the transfer of assests were done before his suicide attempt, weeks before the civil suit came into the picture. What would you do if you were in MEH's shoes, would you refuse the transfer? Not me, I would be looking out for myself.

Hazel
05-12-2010, 11:01 PM
I feel for MEH and I still do. IMO and after reading the links, the transfer of assests were done before his suicide attempt, weeks before the civil suit came into the picture. What would you do if you were in MEH's shoes, would you refuse the transfer? Not me, I would be looking out for myself.
:waitasec: wouldn't that seem to indicate that he felt like dying after he was made to sign those papers? Did she continue to visit him after he signed?

Hazel
05-12-2010, 11:19 PM
not sure if this was posted on this thread but here goes anyway.

http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/793456--michael-edelson-go-to-guy-for-people-in-big-trouble-with-the-law
:whistle:

Flip = They married in Manitoba in 1991 (20 years?). They lived separated lives since July 2009, when she stayed in Ottawa instead of spending summer in their Tweed cottage (like in previous years), because she was supervising the construction and decoration of the new house.
Still they would see each other during the weekends.

Police in Orleans took very seriously the B&E's; they feared those could escalate because of the sexual overtone. Residents were informed, many of them even installed alarm systems. Looking at the map where the Orleans B&E's took place, it looks like a circle (see map below). Do you think MH was not aware of all those incidents? Orleans/Fallingbrook has their own local papers as well. The last 82 counts go back to 2007.
Neighbours have said they would see them walking holding hands.

Then when they go to Tweed, B&E's stop in Orleans, and start in Tweed. I can understand the Tweed Police and Ottawa Police not connecting the dots sooner, but wouldn't you go like:
"Wow, seems like that perp is following us wherever we go!" also
"OMG! it happened again last night, and you were not here with me. Luckily the perp didn't enter our home. BTW, while you were out jogging, didn't you see anybody out there?"

Same for Tweed! Lots of B&E's and always when she was either in Ottawa, out of town or he went for a midnight walk. They were never together everytime an incident happened, she was always by herself or somewhere else. Wasn't she afraid she could be next?

Here are the MAPS again:

Fallingbrook, Orleans = http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802314

Tweed = http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802283

antiquegirl
05-12-2010, 11:55 PM
:whistle:

Flip = They married in Manitoba in 1991 (20 years?). They lived separated lives since July 2009, when she stayed in Ottawa instead of spending summer in their Tweed cottage (like in previous years), because she was supervising the construction and decoration of the new house.
Still they would see each other during the weekends.

Police in Orleans took very seriously the B&E's; they feared those could escalate because of the sexual overtone. Residents were informed, many of them even installed alarm systems. Looking at the map where the Orleans B&E's took place, it looks like a circle (see map below). Do you think MH was not aware of all those incidents? Orleans/Fallingbrook has their own local papers as well. The last 82 counts go back to 2007.
Neighbours have said they would see them walking holding hands.

Then when they go to Tweed, B&E's stop in Orleans, and start in Tweed. I can understand the Tweed Police and Ottawa Police not connecting the dots sooner, but wouldn't you go like:
"Wow, seems like that perp is following us wherever we go!" also
"OMG! it happened again last night, and you were not here with me. Luckily the perp didn't enter our home. BTW, while you were out jogging, didn't you see anybody out there?"

Same for Tweed! Lots of B&E's and always when she was either in Ottawa, out of town or he went for a midnight walk. They were never together everytime an incident happened, she was always by herself or somewhere else. Wasn't she afraid she could be next?

Here are the MAPS again:

Fallingbrook, Orleans = http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802314

Tweed = http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802283

You make some valid points, Hazel, but I still wonder. Although some of the Ottawa B & Es were well-publicized, I don't think the Tweed ones were before RW's arrest. Sure, the news of the sexual assaults probably was widely known in town, but I don't think that even LE connected them to the underwear thefts in Ottawa until afterwards. Isn't it possible that MEH never made the connection either? If you didn't know better, you'd think they were perpetrated by a different type of criminal.

Also, would the media publish the actual times of the break-ins, or just the dates? I read the paper every day and don't recall times being mentioned. So, how could she be sure that they were apart during the crimes? And remember, many of those break-ins weren't even reported to LE, much less made it into the media. Some of the victims didn't notice they were missing anything until after they were told. The number of known break-ins increased and the maps published after the arrest and alleged confession.

I've posted this before, but since we now know that the break-ins took place in the wee hours (after midnight usually), I think it's likely that MEH was already asleep when her husband went out to "jog". If she woke up and discovered him gone, he could always say that he couldn't sleep. If this had been a long-standing habit, she might never even question it.

I don't know. When you love and trust someone, there's such a thing as being in denial. These are crimes that no woman would ever want to believe her husband is capable of, much less guilty of. If she had her suspicions, I think she filed them away to the back of her mind.

JMHO

antiquegirl
05-13-2010, 12:38 AM
:waitasec: wouldn't that seem to indicate that he felt like dying after he was made to sign those papers? Did she continue to visit him after he signed?

I think he felt like dying as soon as he was arrested. He just wanted to make sure his wife was taken care of and, as he said in his note, his affairs were put in order before he did anything about it. I still believe he will try again if he gets a chance.

JMO

It was reported that MEH had been visiting her husband in jail, but it hasn't been made clear if she has done so since the papers have been signed. We don't even know if there are more documents that need signing, i.e. divorce papers, etc. I would like to think these visits were out of necessity, not compassion.

Hazel
05-13-2010, 12:46 AM
Sure enough antiquegirl, anything is possible. I only know that if my husband was sneaking in and out of the house in the wee hours of the morning, I would have known ;)
Also, I wasn't only thinking of media reports, more like people talking, neighbours commenting that the house next door, the house 2 streets away, and so forth, had been broken into and police cars were at the scene. Or neighbours talking about an attempted break-in just around the corner. Then the other neighbour installing an alarm system, the other neighbours adding extra outdoor lights, another one installing motion-sensor outdoor lightning, things like that.
I remember viewing a video clip where one of the Fallingbrook resisdents was pointing out to the reporter that practically all his surrounding neighbours had been broken into (or attempted break-in).

I guess we will have to wait and see what else comes out, or what else she does or doesn't do. For now, I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt :)

antiquegirl
05-13-2010, 12:50 AM
I'm sorry you feel this way?!? So you are not supporting H & S because RW was associated with it... Does that mean that you do not support the Canadian Military as RW was associated with it???? The military and MEH did not do this, RW and RW alone did this. He deserves all the blame!

ITA!

RW was not associated with the H & S Foundation - his innocent wife was and probably is no longer. To boycott the organization for that reason is tantamount to boycotting all doctors because RW's brother happens to be a physician.

JMO

Hazel
05-13-2010, 12:59 AM
I think he felt like dying as soon as he was arrested. He just wanted to make sure his wife was taken care of and, as he said in his note, his affairs were put in order before he did anything about it. I still believe he will try again if he gets a chance.

JMO

It was reported that MEH had been visiting her husband in jail, but it hasn't been made clear if she has done so since the papers have been signed. We don't even know if there are more documents that need signing, i.e. divorce papers, etc. I would like to think these visits were out of necessity, not compassion.
He he, your post made me think of a crazy idea: What if he was mad at her for making him sign those papers, and the attempted suicide was his way of revenge (after all it seems like he kinda hates women), he didn't actually wanted to die, but wanted to let the public know that it was her idea to put the house in her name, not his? I know, I know, this is way too crazy, but with RW in mind, I can only think of the craziest of ideas, ROFL.

IMO those were not divorce papers, like you said earlier, we would have heard about that already, and that would mean she wouldn't have access to his military salary/pension, right?

Hazel
05-13-2010, 01:03 AM
ITA!

RW was not associated with the H & S Foundation - his innocent wife was and probably is no longer. To boycott the organization for that reason is tantamount to boycotting all doctors because RW's brother happens to be a physician.

JMO

Didn't H&S say she was on indefinite paid leave? :waitasec:

antiquegirl
05-13-2010, 01:04 AM
Sure enough antiquegirl, anything is possible. I only know that if my husband was sneaking in and out of the house in the wee hours of the morning, I would have known ;)
Also, I wasn't only thinking of media reports, more like people talking, neighbours commenting that the house next door, the house 2 streets away, and so forth, had been broken into and police cars were at the scene. Or neighbours talking about an attempted break-in just around the corner. Then the other neighbour installing an alarm system, the other neighbours adding extra outdoor lights, another one installing motion-sensor outdoor lightning, things like that.
I remember viewing a video clip where one of the Fallingbrook resisdents was pointing out to the reporter that practically all his surrounding neighbours had been broken into (or attempted break-in).

I guess we will have to wait and see what else comes out, or what else she does or doesn't do. For now, I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt :)

I do see your point, Hazel, but thought I'd mention something from my own perspective. For 23 years we have lived in a relatively small town in a quiet residential area. There isn't a lot of turnover in home-owners on our street. I spent the first 16 years here raising our three children and working full-time, six-days a week. When I got home from work, I got out of my car, went straight into the house, made dinner, and ran a household. I was too tired to get involved in neighbourhood gossip and wouldn't have recognized any of my neighbours if I found one in my bathtub. (All my friends were left behind in Toronto and I made only one here, who lived uptown.) I read the Toronto Star and watched the news on TV, but was only vaguely familiar with local news. Too busy, too tired. Some people are oblivious and it's possible that MEH was one of them. She did have a high-powered job.

Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate and trying to give the poor woman the benefit of the doubt.

flipflop
05-13-2010, 06:47 AM
:whistle:

Flip = They married in Manitoba in 1991 (20 years?). They lived separated lives since July 2009, when she stayed in Ottawa instead of spending summer in their Tweed cottage (like in previous years), because she was supervising the construction and decoration of the new house.
Still they would see each other during the weekends.

Police in Orleans took very seriously the B&E's; they feared those could escalate because of the sexual overtone. Residents were informed, many of them even installed alarm systems. Looking at the map where the Orleans B&E's took place, it looks like a circle (see map below). Do you think MH was not aware of all those incidents? Orleans/Fallingbrook has their own local papers as well. The last 82 counts go back to 2007.
Neighbours have said they would see them walking holding hands.

Then when they go to Tweed, B&E's stop in Orleans, and start in Tweed. I can understand the Tweed Police and Ottawa Police not connecting the dots sooner, but wouldn't you go like:
"Wow, seems like that perp is following us wherever we go!" also
"OMG! it happened again last night, and you were not here with me. Luckily the perp didn't enter our home. BTW, while you were out jogging, didn't you see anybody out there?"

Same for Tweed! Lots of B&E's and always when she was either in Ottawa, out of town or he went for a midnight walk. They were never together everytime an incident happened, she was always by herself or somewhere else. Wasn't she afraid she could be next?

Here are the MAPS again:

Fallingbrook, Orleans = http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802314

Tweed = http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/802283

Ottawa victims of the break-ins told eerily similar stories — backyard windows methodically, almost surgically removed and, in some cases, neatly replaced. The thief left little or no trace.

The above snippet leads me to believe that quite afew b & e's were not even reported as the home owners didn't even realize they were broken into.

“I’m just finding out now that he had been in my home, and I didn’t know about it,’’ she said in an interview.

From this snippet, it again makes me wonder how many homes were entered by RW and no one knew, therefore it was not reported. Therefore MEH would not have known the dates let alone times of many of these homes on the map, to suspect that it could have been RW.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--police-paint-portrait-of-a-chilling-stalker

nobodyzgirl
05-13-2010, 08:58 AM
I'm sorry you feel this way?!? So you are not supporting H & S because RW was associated with it... Does that mean that you do not support the Canadian Military as RW was associated with it???? The military and MEH did not do this, RW and RW alone did this. He deserves all the blame!

ITA FlipFlop. I personally will be supporting H&S and the Military - they had nothing to do with the choices that RW made.

antiquegirl
05-13-2010, 09:01 AM
Ottawa victims of the break-ins told eerily similar stories — backyard windows methodically, almost surgically removed and, in some cases, neatly replaced. The thief left little or no trace.

The above snippet leads me to believe that quite afew b & e's were not even reported as the home owners didn't even realize they were broken into.

“I’m just finding out now that he had been in my home, and I didn’t know about it,’’ she said in an interview.

From this snippet, it again makes me wonder how many homes were entered by RW and no one knew, therefore it was not reported. Therefore MEH would not have known the dates let alone times of many of these homes on the map, to suspect that it could have been RW.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/802107--police-paint-portrait-of-a-chilling-stalker

Exactly. And to point out again, those maps didn't come out until after RW had been charged with the B & Es.

Wondergirl
05-13-2010, 10:10 AM
For me, there are two issues here, control and the victims.

RW remains in control if he willingly signs over marital assets to his wife. Being a narcissist, he is allowing that to happen. He is in control. He controls who gets his money.

This SOB ran Canada's largest air movement base. His analytical mind would be well aware of impending litigation, and by taking control, and transferring marital assets to his wife, he would have the final say.

Former RW colleague and advisor Retired General Rick Hillier expressed the sentiments regarding RW’s victims the best:

"We are all victims of a heinous crime," Hillier said. "What you've been doing the last two weeks is incredible. Keep doing it. Do not let a heinous crime and terrible thing destroy this community."

He said leadership will prevent that from happening.

http://www.communitypress-online.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2457836


While MEH is almost surely another of RW’s victims, it does not entitle her to what is rightfully his by law. She may or may not have intentionally agreed to be compensated as a victim herself, by allegedly receiving a fraudulent transfer of marital assets. Only she herself knows this.

One thing is clear in my mind. Anything RW owned or owns should be used to compensate his victims. There will likely be more civil lawsuits.

Any attempts to keep RW’s assets from his victims through means of a narcissistic transfer to his wife, should be reversed or halted by a court of law. There is a 2 week time limit of response, I believe, so we will hear from the defendants soon.

It is all about the victims.

antiquegirl
05-13-2010, 10:54 AM
RW remains in control if he willingly signs over marital assets to his wife.

(Respectfully snipped)

ITA. But it could be equally argued that if RW had refused to sign over his assets, he would still have been in control, if not more so. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this whole deal was their lawyers' idea. They would have the expertise to realize the advantages and possible consequences of such a move.

JMO

Wondergirl
05-13-2010, 11:10 AM
(Respectfully snipped)

ITA. But it could be equally argued that if RW had refused to sign over his assets, he would still have been in control, if not more so. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.



(Respectfully snipped)

I agree with what you are saying here.

But what I mean, is that he still controls what happens to his sexual assault, theft, and murder victims , by not allowing them access to his money.

If he fought to keep his assets, he would be controlling the outcome of his money, but he would also be allowing his victims to access it.

By diverting the funds, he has the upper hand on his victims, once again.

I could be off here, perhaps he has genuine compassion for his wife of so many years. Like he exhibited to the frogs in the grass, and the cat on his shoulder. Perhaps, she falls into that category in his sick brain.

But I doubt it.

dotr
05-14-2010, 12:18 AM
She said staff of the Sexual Assault Centre, Belleville's Three Oaks Foundation and Central Hastings OPP held an information meeting at Centre Hastings Secondary School in Madoc after the home invasions and offered advice on personal safety.

"The community was aware," she said.
This is an older article,a little different from the others.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2442302

We talk about the person often being in a position of power and trust. We talk about not buying

into the false message or the stereotype that it's the person in the dark alley or that stranger that nobody's ever heard of before, a person that's not from your community."

She said reports that Williams is "a nice man" match similar comments in countless other

cases

Hazel
05-14-2010, 02:07 AM
I was trying to look for old news articles of thefts in the Fallingbrook area (Orleans), and found this 2 so far:

-- http://www.ottawacitizen.com/life/Attempted+abduction/1555524/story.html (I don't think this is RW)

-- http://ottawapolice.ca/en/MediaRoom/NewsReleases/08-10-31/d9b586d5-547e-46ed-bfb0-d16b4eddb0b4.aspx (IMO, this one could be two of RW alleged B&E's)

Hazel
05-14-2010, 07:40 AM
By Gary Dimmock , The Ottawa Citizen May 14, 2010 6:37 AM


OTTAWA — It was the day after the neighbour down the road had been sexually terrorized as her infant daughter slept. A man had broken into her Tweed home in late September 2009 around 1 a.m. He blindfolded her, photographed her and forced himself on her for two hours.

Hours later, the police knocked on doors along Cosy Cove Lane asking questions. They got to Larry Jones’s home, and after a few questions, an officer asked who owned the place next door. Jones, 65, told him it belonged to Col. Russell Williams, 47. The police officer thought Jones was joking. He wasn’t.

“So I told him again,” Jones said, “that the owner of the house next door was the commander of CFB Trenton and then he said, ‘Well, I guess we don’t have to look at him then.’ ”

In fact, OPP detectives would first focus not on Williams, but rather on Larry Jones.

The OPP searched Jones’s home and hauled him in for questioning.

Two months after the police officer said they didn’t need to look at Williams as a suspect, Cpl. Marie-France Comeau, 37, was found dead in a sex killing. Four months later, Jessica Lloyd, 27, was also found dead after being sexually assaulted.




Williams was then asked to come in for questioning at Ottawa police headquarters in the first week of February.

The colonel apparently thought the interview would be about his Tweed neighbour, Larry Jones, and figured he’d be back to his Ottawa home on Edison Avenue for supper.

Nothing could be further from the truth and Williams, still being paid $12,000 a month by the military, remains in jail charged in connection with two sex killings, two home invasions involving sexual assault and 82 lingerie break-ins, including 34 in Orléans.

By the end of the police interview, led by an OPP behavioural sciences expert, Williams allegedly guided detectives to where they could find hidden keepsakes — included more than 500 pairs of women’s underwear — at his Westboro home.


Thursday, a Belleville judge ruled that Mary-Elizabeth Harriman is prohibited from selling or transferring the Westboro home.

Williams and Mary-Elizabeth Harriman have not yet filed a statement of defence. None of the allegations in the statement of claim have been proven in court.


Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/initially+ruled+colonel+suspect/3025111/story.html

So RW thought he was asked to go to the Police Headquarters to be interviewed about poor Mr Jones!?!?!?
Just imagine what could have happened to Mr. Jones, if it wasn't for those tire threads!
Was RW planning on throwing Mr. Jones under the bus?
To have been a fly on that wall!
btw, good ruling Belleville Judge :dance:

flipflop
05-14-2010, 07:56 AM
By Gary Dimmock , The Ottawa Citizen May 14, 2010 6:37 AM




Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/initially+ruled+colonel+suspect/3025111/story.html

So RW thought he was asked to go to the Police Headquarters to be interviewed about poor Mr Jones!?!?!?
Just imagine what could have happened to Mr. Jones, if it wasn't for those tire threads!
Was RW planning on throwing Mr. Jones under the bus?
To have been a fly on that wall!
btw, good ruling Belleville Judge :dance:

Did anyone ever hear where Mr. Jones stolen belongings were found or if they were found....RW was definatly setting him up IMO

antiquegirl
05-14-2010, 10:44 AM
Did anyone ever hear where Mr. Jones stolen belongings were found or if they were found....RW was definatly setting him up IMO

" ... they took a dirty work coat, a pair of work gloves and a small blue lighter"

http://www.ottawacitizen.comnews/Williams+Case+Neighbours+second+guess+Cozy+Cove+La ne/2560660/story.html#ixzz0nubRS6va

I don't recall hearing any more about these stolen items except for the claim by LJ. LE has never mentioned finding any of them at any of the crime scenes (or elsewhere), but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

However, if RW was responsible for the theft and had planned to plant them at future crime scenes, he sure didn't give it much thought. Did he really think that anyone would believe that a perp would be stupid enough to leave a personal, presumably traceable, belonging at three separate scenes? Wouldn't even LE find it too much of a coincidence? One lighter, perhaps, could steer them to the wrong suspect, but three items? (It's even more unbelievable that he planned to leave all three at the same scene.)

But let's presume that somewhere between one and three incriminating pieces of false evidence were left behind at the scene of a B & E or sexual assault. That alone would be circumstantial evidence and LE would need a lot more than that to pin the crime on the owner of that object. How could RW know that LJ didn't have an irrefutable alibi for the time of that particular crime?

If this was all a plan by RW to frame LJ, it sure wasn't very smart. He strikes me as more intelligent than that. Is it possible that the theft was perpetrated by some silly kids? Did LJ make up the whole story? I've always been skeptical of his claim that his wife received phone calls accusing him of being a "murderer" shortly after the assaults, but before any of the murders had been committed.

According to Larry Jones, police at one point considered him a suspect in the home invasions, which he said occurred at two nearby homes.

"Wife getting calls, ‘How does it feel to live with a murderer?’” he said."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Canadian+Forces+base+commander+faces+homicide+char ges+Ontario+deaths/2536787/story.html

Also, we have to remember that RW was full of hubris and considered himself invincible. And until the time of his arrest, he was!

JMO

Wondergirl
05-14-2010, 02:49 PM
Has anyone seen the picture of MEH at the courthouse? If so, can you provide a link?

Wondergirl
05-14-2010, 03:00 PM
There are many more completed ATI's (Access to Information) requests in March, relating to Williams at this site (regarding employment, promotion to Major/Lt.Col/Col, etc), but this one stuck out to me. April's completed ATI Requests have not been released yet.

I wonder if it is suspected that RW manipulated information regarding the murder of Marie Comeau at his own base? I suppose this document must contain the "100 plus" emails that The Toronto Star reported on recently.

A-2009-00933 All emails between midnight on 24 Nov 09 and 5 Dec 09 regarding the writing, production, layout and subjects and articles to be published in the 27 Nov, 4 Dec and 11 Dec 09 editions of the Trenton military base’s newspaper Contact.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/aip/cr-dc-eng.asp#mar


*Note: A poster on Lachlan's Thread here (the Deep River scientist who is missing), posted the link to the DAIP, and I was amazed by the information there. Apparantly, you can buy a copy for $5 of the information in these requests. I assume the journalists must use this department frequently.

sillybilly
05-14-2010, 04:24 PM
" ... they took a dirty work coat, a pair of work gloves and a small blue lighter"

http://www.ottawacitizen.comnews/Williams+Case+Neighbours+second+guess+Cozy+Cove+La ne/2560660/story.html#ixzz0nubRS6va

I don't recall hearing any more about these stolen items except for the claim by LJ. LE has never mentioned finding any of them at any of the crime scenes (or elsewhere), but that doesn't necessarily mean much.

However, if RW was responsible for the theft and had planned to plant them at future crime scenes, he sure didn't give it much thought. Did he really think that anyone would believe that a perp would be stupid enough to leave a personal, presumably traceable, belonging at three separate scenes? Wouldn't even LE find it too much of a coincidence? One lighter, perhaps, could steer them to the wrong suspect, but three items? (It's even more unbelievable that he planned to leave all three at the same scene.)

But let's presume that somewhere between one and three incriminating pieces of false evidence were left behind at the scene of a B & E or sexual assault. That alone would be circumstantial evidence and LE would need a lot more than that to pin the crime on the owner of that object. How could RW know that LJ didn't have an irrefutable alibi for the time of that particular crime?

If this was all a plan by RW to frame LJ, it sure wasn't very smart. He strikes me as more intelligent than that. Is it possible that the theft was perpetrated by some silly kids? Did LJ make up the whole story? I've always been skeptical of his claim that his wife received phone calls accusing him of being a "murderer" shortly after the assaults, but before any of the murders had been committed.

According to Larry Jones, police at one point considered him a suspect in the home invasions, which he said occurred at two nearby homes.

"Wife getting calls, ‘How does it feel to live with a murderer?’” he said."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Canadian+Forces+base+commander+faces+homicide+char ges+Ontario+deaths/2536787/story.html

Also, we have to remember that RW was full of hubris and considered himself invincible. And until the time of his arrest, he was!

JMO

I don't recall that the items were found at an actual crime scene, or how LJ came by the knowledge that RW had them. If it is true that RW took these items with an intent to frame LJ, then I suspect it could simply be part of his titillating "game". As you say, he considered himself invincible, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility that he would do this (look at what else he has done !!). Also, if he went to LE with the belief that it was regarding LJ, it might have been a thrill to be interviewed so he could set LJ up further. He was unaware that his treads had been discovered, so maybe LE simply beat him at his own game.

Re the phone call about living with a murderer ... It is possible that RW himself made that call for another thrill of a lifetime, knowing that he would eventually kill someone in the vicinity and that Mrs. LJ would remember that taunting phone call. IIRC, that phone call initiated suspicions of Mr and Mrs LJ, when we have no other reason to doubt the validity of their claims. They too are victims of RW, and until someone proves their statements are flat out lies or embellished truths, I will continue to believe them.

We are dealing with the creme de la creeps here ... nothing about RW will surprise me.

MOO

antiquegirl
05-14-2010, 05:14 PM
I don't recall that the items were found at an actual crime scene, or how LJ came by the knowledge that RW had them. If it is true that RW took these items with an intent to frame LJ, then I suspect it could simply be part of his titillating "game". As you say, he considered himself invincible, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility that he would do this (look at what else he has done !!). Also, if he went to LE with the belief that it was regarding LJ, it might have been a thrill to be interviewed so he could set LJ up further. He was unaware that his treads had been discovered, so maybe LE simply beat him at his own game.

Re the phone call about living with a murderer ... It is possible that RW himself made that call for another thrill of a lifetime, knowing that he would eventually kill someone in the vicinity and that Mrs. LJ would remember that taunting phone call. IIRC, that phone call initiated suspicions of Mr and Mrs LJ, when we have no other reason to doubt the validity of their claims. They too are victims of RW, and until someone proves their statements are flat out lies or embellished truths, I will continue to believe them.

We are dealing with the creme de la creeps here ... nothing about RW will surprise me.

MOO

Billy, everything you say is plausible. All I'm trying to point out that everything about this story is mere hearsay and speculation. LJ claims no "knowledge" that it was RW who stole his belongings. He was only guessing that after RW was arrested. The theft, the suspicion of who the thief might have been, or where the items ended up (if found at all) have never been corroborated by LE.

We have never heard that RW took any suspicions to LE about LJ. Personally, I doubt it. How would he explain his suspicions and why bring any attention to himself? The tire tracks were discovered only three days before LE contacted him and asked him to come in to be interviewed - in Ottawa yet.

As for the phone call, I always assumed it had come from a woman, but the sex of that particular caller was never mentioned, so I guess it could have come from RW as well as anyone. No matter what, it sounds as if RW was a busy, busy man.

JMO

sillybilly
05-14-2010, 05:39 PM
Billy, everything you say is plausible. All I'm trying to point out that everything about this story is mere hearsay and speculation. LJ claims no "knowledge" that it was RW who stole his belongings. He was only guessing that after RW was arrested. The theft, the suspicion of who the thief might have been, or where the items ended up (if found at all) have never been corroborated by LE.

We have never heard that RW took any suspicions to LE about LJ. Personally, I doubt it. How would he explain his suspicions and why bring any attention to himself? The tire tracks were discovered only three days before LE contacted him and asked him to come in to be interviewed - in Ottawa yet.

As for the phone call, I always assumed it had come from a woman, but the sex of that particular caller was never mentioned, so I guess it could have come from RW as well as anyone. No matter what, it sounds as if RW was a busy, busy man.

JMO

bbm

When I said "went to LE", I did mean when he went in after LE had called him. If he was aware of the activity surrounding LJ, he may have thought (or even been told by LE) that they were investigating these crimes in relation to his neighbour and would like to speak with him about it. I've always wondered why he would go in without a lawyer, and that might explain it.

You're right AG ... so few facts, so all we can is speculate with the little we do have.

Hazel
05-14-2010, 08:32 PM
" ... they took a dirty work coat, a pair of work gloves and a small blue lighter"

http://www.ottawacitizen.comnews/Williams+Case+Neighbours+second+guess+Cozy+Cove+La ne/2560660/story.html#ixzz0nubRS6va

, if RW was responsible for the theft and had planned to plant them at future crime scenes, he sure didn't give it much thought. Did he really think that anyone would believe that a perp would be stupid enough to leave a personal, presumably traceable, belonging at three separate scenes? Wouldn't even LE find it too much of a coincidence? One lighter, perhaps, could steer them to the wrong suspect, but three items? (It's even more unbelievable that he planned to leave all three at the same scene.)

But let's presume that somewhere between one and three incriminating pieces of false evidence were left behind at the scene of a B & E or sexual assault. That alone would be circumstantial evidence and LE would need a lot more than that to pin the crime on the owner of that object. How could RW know that LJ didn't have an irrefutable alibi for the time of that particular crime?

If this was all a plan by RW to frame LJ, it sure wasn't very smart. He strikes me as more intelligent than that. Is it possible that the theft was perpetrated by some silly kids? Did LJ make up the whole story?

JMO

RS&BBM

Antiquegirl, IMO (for what it's worth), those items were not taken to be ALL left at a future scene. These were my thoughts about the stolen items:

-- the LIGHTER: could have turned up in a future crime scene.

-- the COAT: he could have been planning on WEARING it as camouflage, and if someone saw him in the coat, then the description would point directly in the direction of LJ.

-- the GLOVES: could potentially leave some of Mr LJ's DNA at the scene as well as particles of paint, grease, wood chips, fertilizer, gun powder (hunting) or any other material that could be traced back to Mr. LJ's garage.

I DO believe Mr. & Mrs. Jones are telling the truth; no reason whatsoever for them to lie.
I cannot imagine how they must be feeling. :( Poor Mr. Jones! Could have been wrongfully convincted for these heinous crimes!

Just wanted to add that at no point Mr. Jones said he had knowledge the items have been found, let alone found in RW's possession. All he said is he didn't report that theft, and only mentioned it after RW's arrest -- hindsight. I don't believe he has accused him, just something he mentioned in case it has some connection, JMO.

antiquegirl
05-14-2010, 08:42 PM
bbm

When I said "went to LE", I did mean when he went in after LE had called him. If he was aware of the activity surrounding LJ, he may have thought (or even been told by LE) that they were investigating these crimes in relation to his neighbour and would like to speak with him about it. I've always wondered why he would go in without a lawyer, and that might explain it.

You're right AG ... so few facts, so all we can is speculate with the little we do have.

And you're right, SB. I can't find the link, but I'm pretty sure that it was recently reported that LE did call RW in that Saturday in Ottawa under the pretense of questioning him about LJ. This had not been made public before. Can anyone find the link, please?

antiquegirl
05-14-2010, 08:49 PM
RS&BBM

Antiquegirl, IMO (for what it's worth), those items were not taken to be ALL left at a future scene. These were my thoughts about the stolen items:

-- the LIGHTER: could have turned up in a future crime scene.

-- the COAT: he could have been planning on WEARING it as camouflage, and if someone saw him in the coat, then the description would point directly in the direction of LJ.

-- the GLOVES: could potentially leave some of Mr LJ's DNA at the scene as well as particles of paint, grease, wood chips, fertilizer, gun powder (hunting) or any other material that could be traced back to Mr. LJ's garage.

I DO believe Mr. & Mrs. Jones are telling the truth; no reason whatsoever for them to lie.
I cannot imagine how they must be feeling. :( Poor Mr. Jones! Could have been wrongfully convincted for these heinous crimes!

Just wanted to add that at no point Mr. Jones said he had knowledge the items have been found, let alone found in RW's possession. All he said is he didn't report that theft, and only mentioned it after RW's arrest -- hindsight. I don't believe he has accused him, just something he mentioned in case it has some connection, JMO.

OMG, Hazel, this is a totally brilliant example of lateral thinking! If you ever want to consider a career change, there could be a future for you in successful crime. Or ... law enforcement, if you're willing to make less money. ;)

sillybilly
05-14-2010, 08:49 PM
Back in March, Gary Dimmick of the Ottawa Citizen reported:

from:
http://news.globaltv.com/world/Police+initially+discounted+colonel+suspect+assaul t/3027083/story.html


Williams was then asked to come in for questioning at Ottawa Police headquarters in the first week of February. The colonel apparently thought the interview would be about his Tweed neighbour, Jones, and figured he'd be back to his Ottawa home on Edison Avenue for supper.

Google hits show all articles with the above info as March 26, 2010, but when we access the hits, it shows today's date. That bugs me.

Dimmick doesn't give his sources.

flipflop
05-14-2010, 09:21 PM
Back in March, Gary Dimmick of the Ottawa Citizen reported:

from:
http://news.globaltv.com/world/Police+initially+discounted+colonel+suspect+assaul t/3027083/story.html



Google hits show all articles with the above info as March 26, 2010, but when we access the hits, it shows today's date. That bugs me.

Dimmick doesn't give his sources.


The OPP searched Jones' home and hauled him in for questioning.

I wonder what they found or what tipped them off to haul him in??

Hazel
05-14-2010, 09:21 PM
OMG, Hazel, this is a totally brilliant example of lateral thinking! If you ever want to consider a career change, there could be a future for you in successful crime. Or ... law enforcement, if you're willing to make less money. ;)
*insert ROTFL smilie here* :D

you have to go down to their level in order to get in their heads ;) these phychopaths(sp?) don't think like 'normal' people do.

Hazel
05-14-2010, 09:27 PM
The OPP searched Jones' home and hauled him in for questioning.

I wonder what they found or what tipped them off to haul him in??
It could simply be that the victim (the one who was their next door neighbour), said she didn't hear any car engine, and only footsteps that stopped indicating it was someone living closeby. She could have pointed out which direction she heard the footsteps, and LE was planning to also go to RW's, that's why they asked Mr. J, but when they found out WHO lived there, they decided it was not necessary. IDK, just throwing an idea out there.
It is possible, there was some physical evidence as well, maybe shoe/boot prints?

Hazel
05-14-2010, 09:54 PM
Back in March, Gary Dimmick of the Ottawa Citizen reported:

from:
http://news.globaltv.com/world/Police+initially+discounted+colonel+suspect+assaul t/3027083/story.html

Google hits show all articles with the above info as March 26, 2010, but when we access the hits, it shows today's date. That bugs me.

Dimmick doesn't give his sources.

Sillybilly, that quote is from today's news (Ottawa Citizen, Montreal Gazette, Globe&Mail, etc) it is the first time that we heard RW was thinking of going back home for supper.

Anyways, I googled DIMMICK, and turns out he was participant in the Larry O'Brian (Mayor of Ottawa) trial :(

A digital audio taped interview between Gary Dimmock and Scott Anderson, employees of the. Ottawa Citizen and Larry O'Brien, Mayor of the City of Ottawa. ... Police warrant for Gary Dimmock's interview tape, transcript - COPY www.ottawacitizen.com/pdf/prodsealottcit.pdf

I'm editting because I don't want to get in any trouble

dotr
05-14-2010, 09:59 PM
Did anyone ever hear where Mr. Jones stolen belongings were found or if they were found....RW was definatly setting him up IMO

I think he may have been prepared to do that,in fact I wondered if the puck dropping thing was about getting his fingerprints.I recall a victim who thought
she heard Mr Jones voice during an attack, and I wondered, if R.W.would use a recording to disguise himself as someone else.

Hazel
05-14-2010, 10:25 PM
Did anyone ever hear where Mr. Jones stolen belongings were found or if they were found....RW was definatly setting him up IMO


I don't recall that the items were found at an actual crime scene,

If it is true that RW took these items with an intent to frame LJ, then I suspect it could simply be part of his titillating "game". As you say, he considered himself invincible, so it isn't outside the realm of possibility that he would do this (look at what else he has done !!). Also, if he went to LE with the belief that it was regarding LJ, it might have been a thrill to be interviewed so he could set LJ up further. He was unaware that his treads had been discovered, so maybe LE simply beat him at his own game.

Re the phone call about living with a murderer ... It is possible that RW himself made that call for another thrill of a lifetime, knowing that he would eventually kill someone in the vicinity and that Mrs. LJ would remember that taunting phone call. IIRC, that phone call initiated suspicions of Mr and Mrs LJ, when we have no other reason to doubt the validity of their claims. They too are victims of RW, and until someone proves their statements are flat out lies or embellished truths, I will continue to believe them.

We are dealing with the creme de la creeps here ... nothing about RW will surprise me.

MOO


I think he may have been prepared to do that,in fact I wondered if the puck dropping thing was about getting his fingerprints.I recall a victim who thought
she heard Mr Jones voice during an attack, and I wondered, if R.W.would use a recording to disguise himself as someone else.

Good thinking Flip, sillybilly and dotr.

Hazel
05-14-2010, 10:30 PM
Publication ban in civil case against Williams, wife
Judge makes orders regarding couple's assets

Posted By LUKE HENDRY/The Intelligencer
Updated 57 mins ago

His order bans the release of Doe's real name and gives directives regarding the defendants' assets.
Doe is the alleged victim in the first home invasion.
Anything may be alleged in a statement of claim. None of the allegations made by Doe have been proven in court.

Byers' ruling allows Doe to use her pseudonym throughout the civil case, though her legal counsel — Belleville's Pretsell-Cavanaugh firm — must supply her real name to the defendants' lawyers.

The judge ruled no one — including lawyers and media — may disclose or publish the plaintiff's name without the court's consent.

"The court orders that the defendant Mary-Elizabeth Harriman shall not transfer, convey, encumber, dispose of or otherwise deal with the property" in question, wrote Byers.

Byers also granted a temporary injunction restraining the "disposition or dissipation of real and personal property" owned by Williams.

The judge ordered Williams to provide a sworn statement of his financial assets.

Lawyers on both sides had little to say Friday.

"Out of respect for our client's privacy, we have no comment," lawyer Mike Pretsell, whose firm represents Doe, wrote in an e-mail message to The Intelligencer.
Williams and Harriman have 20 working days after the filing of the statement of claim in which to file either a statement of defence or to state their intent to defend against Doe's claims. No such statements had been filed as of Friday.

Ottawa lawyer Mary Jane Binks confirmed she has been retained by Harriman.

"A statement of defence will be filed within the next two weeks," Binks told The Intelligencer. She added she would not represent Williams.

" I am definitely not representing him," Binks said.

Lawyer Michael Edelson, also of Ottawa, represents Williams in the criminal case. James Katz, another Ottawa lawyer, acted on the record Thursday as Edelson's agent but was not present in court. He said neither he nor Edelson had been retained by the colonel.

"No one actually represents him in the civil matter, to my knowledge," Katz said Friday from Ottawa.

"I'm not authorized to give any comment," Katz said.

read more: http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2579920

flipflop
05-14-2010, 10:50 PM
I think he may have been prepared to do that,in fact I wondered if the puck dropping thing was about getting his fingerprints.I recall a victim who thought
she heard Mr Jones voice during an attack, and I wondered, if R.W.would use a recording to disguise himself as someone else.

I remember reading awhile back that one of the victims asked RW to get her a cigarette, and he complied...makes me wonder if he had LJ's lighter with his prints on it.

antiquegirl
05-14-2010, 10:52 PM
From the article quoted by Hazel:


Williams is awaiting trial on all criminal charges.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2579920

This reporter is making a presumption that there will be a trial. If RW pleads guilty to the charges, there will be no trial. Even if he pleads not guilty, there has to be a preliminary hearing to determine if there is sufficient evidence to go to trial. Another instance of poor journalism, or was there just no better way to phrase this?

JMO

antiquegirl
05-14-2010, 11:02 PM
I remember reading awhile back that one of the victims asked RW to get her a cigarette, and he complied...makes me wonder if he had LJ's lighter with his prints on it.

Can't be, flip. The assaults took place last September and LJ's property was not stolen until this January.

"Someone had broken into his workshop in late January"

http://www.canada.com/news/Cosy+Cove+Lane/2560660/story.html

dotr
05-14-2010, 11:13 PM
Jones said he was arrested because one of the two women assaulted mistakenly thought she recognized his voice as the voice of her assailant.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100209/williams_neighbour_100209?hub=OttawaHome

dotr
05-15-2010, 12:06 AM
Maybe it is the lighting, but R.W. just does not look as " spit and shine" as one might expect from a Colonel.

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2255773

sillybilly
05-15-2010, 03:44 AM
Sillybilly, that quote is from today's news (Ottawa Citizen, Montreal Gazette, Globe&Mail, etc) it is the first time that we heard RW was thinking of going back home for supper.

Well dang !! I don't know why all the hit summaries said March. Then I don't know how I knew beforehand that he was called in on a ruse related to LJ. Maybe i just lucked in with a good guess.

Billy is in pain and signing off for tonite. Hard typing 'cuz i bummed up my hand today on a propane tank of all things. Grrrr

ZZzzzzzzzzzzz

flipflop
05-15-2010, 08:37 AM
Maybe it is the lighting, but R.W. just does not look as " spit and shine" as one might expect from a Colonel.

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2255773

I thought the samething....I noticed the bottom portion of his pant legs are quite wrinkly. I guess RW didn't leave too much time in his "busy" schedule to take care of such things as ironing.

dotr
05-15-2010, 10:44 AM
I thought the samething....I noticed the bottom portion of his pant legs are quite wrinkly. I guess RW didn't leave too much time in his "busy" schedule to take care of such things as ironing.

I am suprised the most by the unpolished boots on a military person, also out of character for the fastidious R.W.

dotr
05-15-2010, 11:11 AM
http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2010/05/15/13958701.html

BELLEVILLE - A Belleville judge has granted a publication ban and issued several directives to Col. Russ Williams and his wife, Mary-Elizabeth Harriman, regarding a a civil action brought against them by a local woman.


"The court orders that the defendant Mary-Elizabeth Harriman shall not transfer, convey, encumber, dispose of or otherwise deal with the property" in question, wrote Byers.

Byers also granted a temporary injunction restraining the "disposition or dissipation of real and personal property" owned by Williams.

The judge ordered Williams to provide a sworn statement of financial assets.

Macright
05-15-2010, 03:52 PM
latest from the Toronto Star..

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/809936--accused-killer-russell-williams-wife-split-properties?bn=1

Hazel
05-15-2010, 09:31 PM
Well dang !! I don't know why all the hit summaries said March. Then I don't know how I knew beforehand that he was called in on a ruse related to LJ. Maybe i just lucked in with a good guess.

Billy is in pain and signing off for tonite. Hard typing 'cuz i bummed up my hand today on a propane tank of all things. Grrrr

ZZzzzzzzzzzzz
Yeah, you're right, summaries at the top show March 26, that's odd, and I believe it was a lucky guess :) I remember we were wondering if it was usual practice for LE to call the day before to ask someone to go for interrogation the next day.

How is your hand billy? hope it doesn't hurt too much :(

Hazel
05-15-2010, 10:16 PM
latest from the Toronto Star..

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/809936--accused-killer-russell-williams-wife-split-properties?bn=1Thanks Macright for posting that article. We need our legal experts to help us sort this mess out. So, she keeps the new house and pays him $62 K for it, and he gets the old cottage plus the $62K. Guess who got the best deal?
With that move, they want to give his victims an old cottage that was thoroughly searched by LE? tsk, tsk.
Real estate lawyer Bob Aaron, who writes a column for the Star, said the $62,000 cash payment on the Ottawa house, which involves payment of land transfer tax, suggests a marital split.

“That means it's an arm's-length deal and there actually was money being paid. So it may be that their marriage went south,” said Aaron. “And he may have done that to pay for his lawyers — he sold her the house.”

Hazel
05-15-2010, 10:27 PM
Third post in a row -- it's so quiet in here today
Found this old article that I don't recall reading before, and seems Orleans residents were more aware of the B&E's than Tweed residents.
'It could have been worse, obviously,' says neighbour of accused killer'
Posted By W. BRICE MCVICAR AND KENNETH JACKSON, QMI AGENCY
Posted 15 days ago
At one Ottawa residence, the patio sliding doors were ripped off the tracks in the backyard by someone desperate to get in. The front door was left wide open like someone in a hurry to get out.

The intruder searched the entire house on Wilkie Dr. in December 2008 for women's underwear like a criminal investigator looking for traces of blood and hair.
He then tried to log onto the homeowner's computer but couldn't guess the password.

And before he left, the intruder took the homeowner's winter boots out of the front closet and "stomps around outside" in the backyard, according to police, stepping in the tracks he had left in the snow to throw police off.

The boots were left next to the carpet in front of the sliding doors, not back in the closet.

It's a bizarre story, but just one of dozens of crimes in the Fallingbrook area linked to Williams, not to mention scores more in Belleville and Tweed.

The owner of the Wilkie Dr. home, who didn't want his name published, said he was in Hawaii with his girlfriend when the break-in happened. The man and other residents on the street started a quasi-vigilante group once the break-ins started happening.

At the same time police were doing undercover work by having officers pose as dog walkers and park unmarked cars in random driveways. They warned residents something was wrong.

Williams lived on the street the entire time.

It's unknown if they knocked on Williams' door.


more: http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2557297

sillybilly
05-17-2010, 12:48 AM
Yeah, you're right, summaries at the top show March 26, that's odd, and I believe it was a lucky guess :) I remember we were wondering if it was usual practice for LE to call the day before to ask someone to go for interrogation the next day.

How is your hand billy? hope it doesn't hurt too much :(

Thanks for asking, Hazel. No big sequalae here .. thumb and hand are wrenched and slowing me down considerably, but i think i'll make it ;) Things like that never happen at a good time, but I have an exceptionally busy week ahead of me. More Arghh !!

Speaking of hands .. I think LE figured if they tipped their hand, RW would lawyer up and they'd get nada, so they played to his big ego by indicating they were investigating LJ and would like his help in answering some questions. The two likely worst case scenarios were that he would run or come in with a lawyer. He was probably under surveillance, so the first was not an issue. The second could have happened whether they called him in immediately or gave him 24 hrs. He probably already knew that LE had been to LJ's, so by letting him lollygag for a day, "at your convenience sir" would appeal to his superiority complex and he was none the wiser. They gambled and won, thankfully.

Wondergirl
05-17-2010, 12:48 PM
The OPP searched Jones' home and hauled him in for questioning.

I wonder what they found or what tipped them off to haul him in??

Response to Flip Flop's Post:

I am thinking it was the results of the canine unit search, that very specifically led LE to the "Jones' home", after the first assault. (Of course, it was actually the house next door)

It seems that the trail probably ended at the Jones', and for LE he was always a suspect, right up until the arrest of RW, despite being "cleared" by "the evidence".

It is just a crying shame that RW's stature and rank in "life", made him exempt from suspicion of the local LE.

MC, JL and others may have been spared the wrath of that psychopath otherwise.


Quinte West Police Services Board Report: September and October 2009

September 17, 2009:- K-9 backup in Tweed for sexual assault investigation

http://quintewest.net/services/police/SepOctpsb2009.pdf

Wondergirl
05-17-2010, 01:03 PM
Pure evil is evident here, in this quote by a former executive assistant:

On day seven, Williams visited the salad bar for lunch. It was now Feb. 4, a Thursday, and he was sitting with a group of colleagues in a base cafeteria when he noticed JW standing near the cash register. The colonel waved her over and pulled out a chair. Wright knew Williams as well as anyone. In 2004, when he was in charge of Trenton’s 437 Squadron, she was his executive assistant. She kept his schedule, listened to stories about his beloved cats, and even visited the now-infamous Tweed cottage, just a few doors down from her sister’s place. “He was always very caring,” she says. “I went through a kidney transplant while he was there, and he visited me in the hospital. He couldn’t be kinder.” In July, when Williams was sworn in as wing commander, he made sure Wright was at the ceremony, sitting in the front row with Mary Liz.

The two enjoyed such a friendly relationship that a few months before that lunch, Wright felt comfortable asking him during a phone conversation what he thought of the gossip around his street. In September, two Tweed women had been sexually assaulted in their homes—both tied to a chair, stripped naked and photographed—and Williams’s next-door neighbour, Larry Jones, was fingered as the prime suspect. “I spoke with him at length about it,” she says of Williams. “He said, ‘Oh, it wouldn’t be Larry. Larry would never do something like that.’ He even indicated to me that Mary Elizabeth was also very upset about it.”

When JW heard the news on Monday morning, her mind raced. She thought of their last meal together, and that earlier phone conversation about the attacks on his street. “I was telling him what the person had done—broke in, taken these women, tied them up and took pictures—and there I was, talking to the person who…”


http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/19/%e2%80%98behind-those-eyes%e2%80%99/2/

Summersolstice
05-17-2010, 07:24 PM
Pure evil is evident here, in this quote by a former executive assistant:

On day seven, Williams visited the salad bar for lunch. It was now Feb. 4, a Thursday, and he was sitting with a group of colleagues in a base cafeteria when he noticed JW standing near the cash register. The colonel waved her over and pulled out a chair. Wright knew Williams as well as anyone. In 2004, when he was in charge of Trenton’s 437 Squadron, she was his executive assistant. She kept his schedule, listened to stories about his beloved cats, and even visited the now-infamous Tweed cottage, just a few doors down from her sister’s place. “He was always very caring,” she says. “I went through a kidney transplant while he was there, and he visited me in the hospital. He couldn’t be kinder.” In July, when Williams was sworn in as wing commander, he made sure Wright was at the ceremony, sitting in the front row with Mary Liz.

The two enjoyed such a friendly relationship that a few months before that lunch, Wright felt comfortable asking him during a phone conversation what he thought of the gossip around his street. In September, two Tweed women had been sexually assaulted in their homes—both tied to a chair, stripped naked and photographed—and Williams’s next-door neighbour, Larry Jones, was fingered as the prime suspect. “I spoke with him at length about it,” she says of Williams. “He said, ‘Oh, it wouldn’t be Larry. Larry would never do something like that.’ He even indicated to me that Mary Elizabeth was also very upset about it.”

When JW heard the news on Monday morning, her mind raced. She thought of their last meal together, and that earlier phone conversation about the attacks on his street. “I was telling him what the person had done—broke in, taken these women, tied them up and took pictures—and there I was, talking to the person who…”


http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/02/19/%e2%80%98behind-those-eyes%e2%80%99/2/

It's enough to make a person wonder if the OPP/NIS were lurking as cafeteria workers in Jan/Feb, 2010, helpfully taking a tray of DNA samples down to the lab, before the arrest, just so it would be legal and all.

flipflop
05-17-2010, 08:22 PM
It's enough to make a person wonder if the OPP/NIS were lurking as cafeteria workers in Jan/Feb, 2010, helpfully taking a tray of DNA samples down to the lab, before the arrest, just so it would be legal and all.

IMO LE didn't suspect him until Feb 4 during the "tire" check. He was right under their nose the whole time everywhere they went and was overlooked or bypassed due to his position in the military. This case could have been solved much earlier and a couple of lives would have been save if LE had the balls to investigate him as an "everyday citizen" when they did so with the other neighbours on Cozy Lane.

flipflop
05-17-2010, 08:58 PM
Petawawa residents not told of sex attacks

http://www.*********.com/s/event-5790570/aHR0cDovL3d3dy5jYmMuY2EvY2FuYWRhL290dGF3YS9zdG9yeS 8yMDEwLzA1LzExL3BldGF3YXdhLXNleC1hdHRhY2tzLmh0bWw/cmVmPXJzcw==

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2010/05/10/nl-military-sexual-assault-510.html#ixzz0nfCxvIaT

Hazel
05-17-2010, 11:15 PM
WILLIAMS CIVIL SUIT:The case against the former base commander of CFB Trenton is heading into the civil courts.


(article + VIDEO clip) May 12, 2010

THIS COMMUNITY EDUCATOR WITH THE SEXUAL ASSAULT CENTRE IN KINGSTON SAYS THAT THE SCARS FROM A SEXUAL ASSAULT... RUN DEEP.
WITH THE CASE AGAINST WILLIAMS STILL BEFORE THE 'CRIMINAL' COURTS TO DECIDE GUILT OR INNOCENCE..

THE CIVIL SUIT DEALS WITH A SEPARATE ISSUE - WHETHER OR NOT WILLIAMS COULD BE 'LIABLE' FOR SOME OF THE AWFUL EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF THE ACTS HE'S BEEN ACCUSED OF.


PHILIP OSANIC: "ONCE THERE IS A CRIMINAL CONVICTION, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO USE THAT CONVICTION, WHERE THE PERSON IS FOUND GUILTY. IN CIVIL LAW, WE FIND THEM LIABLE. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO USE THAT CONVICTION AS PROOF OF LIABILITY."

IT'S NOT UNCOMMON FOR THE VICTIMS OF CRIME SEEK CIVIL REMEDIES, ACCORDING TO THIS QUEENS LAW PROFESSOR.

NICHOLAS BALA: "IT'S BEEN RECOGNIZED THAT VICTIMS HAVE THEIR OWN INTERESTS, AND HAVE SUFFERED NOT ONLY AS VICTIMS OF CRIME, BUT ALSO HAVE SUFFERED ECONOMIC LOSSES, PSYCHOLOGICAL LOSSES, AND ARE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION."

OSANIC: " THE FACT THAT IT'S A CRIMINAL WRONG DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PURSUE YOUR OWN CIVIL RIGHTS, AND A CIVIL REMEDY THROUGH THE CIVIL COURTS."

IF THE CIVIL CASE IS SUCCESSFUL - JANE DOE COULD RECEIVE COMPENSATION FOR THE LASTING IMPACT OF THE ALLEGED ATTACK....

THE AMOUNT WOULD BE UP TO THE JUDGE.

BUT NO MATTER WHAT THE DOLLAR VALUE, NOTHING COULD EVER ERASE... THE EXPERIENCE.


rsb&coloured BM (the caps are not mine)
http://www.ckwstv.com/index.cfm?page=news&id=2475

Wondergirl
05-18-2010, 04:01 PM
Think of how the morale must be at CFB Trenton. Look at this edition of The Contact, dated February 5, 2010.

-Only one mission for 424 Squadron the previous week, dispatched January 31, to search for missing Belleville woman, JL. (picture of helicopter)

-Another mention of an Annual 8 Wing Winter Carnival, February 12, 2010. Opening Ceremonies will begin with Colonel Russ Williams, Commander, 8 Wing/CFB Trenton, at 0915 hrs.

Who would have ever imagined that the Wing Commander would be behind bars, instead of kicking off the Carnival? Sick.

http://thecontactnewspaper.cfbtrenton.com/archives/2010/11_February_2010/feb_05_2010/thecontact_feb_05_2010.pdf

Wondergirl
05-18-2010, 04:16 PM
RW is with the flight crew here at this link, in a picture of him flying on the Royal Tour with HRH Queen Elizabeth II, and then GG Adrienne Clarkson:


http://www.thecontactnewspaper.cfbtrenton.com/archives/2005/07_June_2005/june_03_2005/thecontact_june_03_2005.pdf

ETA: 2 pictures here, RW saluting The Queen on the cover, and further on in the paper, him with the flight crew.

Pink Panther
05-18-2010, 05:55 PM
RW is with the flight crew here at this link, in a picture of him flying on the Royal Tour with HRH Queen Elizabeth II, and then GG Adrienne Clarkson:


http://www.thecontactnewspaper.cfbtrenton.com/archives/2005/07_June_2005/june_03_2005/thecontact_june_03_2005.pdf

ETA: 2 pictures here, RW saluting The Queen on the cover, and further on in the paper, him with the flight crew.
So easy to see RW! Nice little "landing stripe" fuzz of hair he has smack in the middle of his forhead. Makes him instantly recognizable. (Is my contempt obvious?) Is Marie France in this pic???? It's difficult to see the others.

sillybilly
05-18-2010, 07:42 PM
So easy to see RW! Nice little "landing stripe" fuzz of hair he has smack in the middle of his forhead. Makes him instantly recognizable. (Is my contempt obvious?) Is Marie France in this pic???? It's difficult to see the others.

Well, I do believe there is a glint of contempt in your post, Pink Panther. Personally, I prefer to remain professional and not sound quite so contemptuous, so I will merely say ... I hope the sob's hair loss is due to it having been ripped out by it's flippin roots.

Sorry, my evil twin took over there for a brief moment in time ;)

antiquegirl
05-18-2010, 08:14 PM
So easy to see RW! Nice little "landing stripe" fuzz of hair he has smack in the middle of his forhead. Makes him instantly recognizable. (Is my contempt obvious?) Is Marie France in this pic???? It's difficult to see the others.

(BBM)

I doubt that MFC was in this picture, as the publication is five years old, dated June 2005. RW was in Trenton that year, but sent to Camp Mirage from December 2005 to 2006. Not sure where MFC was at that time, but she had been in Trenton under RW's command for only 6 months at the time of her death.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/02/08/f-williams-biography.html

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=2538611

flipflop
05-18-2010, 08:47 PM
This link is in regards to the most recent arrest in Petawawa, the charges regarding the assaults last fall have been dropped with no explanation from the crown. He now faces nine criminal charges.

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2010/05/14/13945001.html

pjgrrrl
05-18-2010, 09:57 PM
This link is in regards to the most recent arrest in Petawawa, the charges regarding the assaults last fall have been dropped with no explanation from the crown. He now faces nine criminal charges.

http://www.ottawasun.com/news/ottawa/2010/05/14/13945001.html


He appeared to be a violent offender, huh? Having lived around Pet for some time, I can tell you that it's like any other base. Different people all the time, so you never quite know who you are living near.

pjgrrrl
05-18-2010, 09:59 PM
I'm still curious if they have examined the sexual assaults at Tooey Lake on HWY 41 last summer or if that just sort of fell under the radar. I cannot seem to find my articles I clipped.
Darn!

maxfactor
05-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Well, I do believe there is a glint of contempt in your post, Pink Panther. Personally, I prefer to remain professional and not sound quite so contemptuous, so I will merely say ... I hope the sob's hair loss is due to it having been ripped out by it's flippin roots.

Sorry, my evil twin took over there for a brief moment in time ;)

My evil twin took over when I looked at the pic of RW with The Queen. I was wondering if she counted her knickers after the trip.

sillybilly
05-19-2010, 04:51 PM
My evil twin took over when I looked at the pic of RW with The Queen. I was wondering if she counted her knickers after the trip.

Wheee !! HRHs instead of BVDs .. what a souvenir that would be, huh? She would not be amused ;)

flipflop
05-19-2010, 05:09 PM
Wheee !! HRHs instead of BVDs .. what a souvenir that would be, huh? She would not be amused ;)

OMG that just reminded me of a link that I read of how he catelogued the panties...he had them lableled with names and Queen E. was one of them....now to find this link.....

Found it, but when you click on the link it is not the same as the google description, so I copied and paste the description:

Col. Russell Williams Tied to Paul Bernardo: May Have Known Each ...
13 Feb 2010 ... The Paul Bernardo and Russell Williams Connection .... Hard to believe his wife didn't notice the boxes of panties, bras and curiously ... with well-known names such as "Queen E.", "Aline C.", "Sheila M.", "Laureen H.", ...
news.suite101.com/.../col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399 - Cached - Similar

when you open this link, the part with the well known names does not appear in this link anymore.
http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399

Now I really wonder...did he steal the Queens undies!!!!

nonfictionrocks
05-19-2010, 05:14 PM
My evil twin took over when I looked at the pic of RW with The Queen. I was wondering if she counted her knickers after the trip.

That is funny Max. The thought of you and SB both having evil twins posting here sounds like trouble - oh dear :nerves:

nonfictionrocks
05-19-2010, 05:31 PM
OMG that just reminded me of a link that I read of how he catelogued the panties...he had them lableled with names and Queen E. was one of them....now to find this link.....

Found it, but when you click on the link it is not the same as the google description, so I copied and paste the description:

Col. Russell Williams Tied to Paul Bernardo: May Have Known Each ...
13 Feb 2010 ... The Paul Bernardo and Russell Williams Connection .... Hard to believe his wife didn't notice the boxes of panties, bras and curiously ... with well-known names such as "Queen E.", "Aline C.", "Sheila M.", "Laureen H.", ...
news.suite101.com/.../col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399 - Cached - Similar

when you open this link, the part with the well known names does not appear in this link anymore.
http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399

Now I really wonder...did he steal the Queens undies!!!!

Gosh FF, I thought you were kidding!

Summersolstice
05-19-2010, 06:30 PM
OMG that just reminded me of a link that I read of how he catelogued the panties...he had them lableled with names and Queen E. was one of them....now to find this link.....

Found it, but when you click on the link it is not the same as the google description, so I copied and paste the description:

Col. Russell Williams Tied to Paul Bernardo: May Have Known Each ...
13 Feb 2010 ... The Paul Bernardo and Russell Williams Connection .... Hard to believe his wife didn't notice the boxes of panties, bras and curiously ... with well-known names such as "Queen E.", "Aline C.", "Sheila M.", "Laureen H.", ...
news.suite101.com/.../col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399 - Cached - Similar

when you open this link, the part with the well known names does not appear in this link anymore.
http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399

Now I really wonder...did he steal the Queens undies!!!!

I think I know why he wanted to visit Calgary with Queen E. The Glenbow Museum has a pair of Queen Vicky's knickers...or should I say "had"? One story said he grabbed a pair of "granny panties", so something like this would be quite a steal:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2285942/Queen-Victorias-bloomers-had-a-50-inch-waist.html

sillybilly
05-19-2010, 07:58 PM
Gosh FF, I thought you were kidding!

We started off joking, but now I feel very badly about what I said. Quite the find, FF. Whew ... this guy sure doesn't have any boundaries.

sillybilly
05-19-2010, 08:46 PM
I think this is the article you are talking about FF. This guy doesn't give a link, but:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pkuPVySCQfQJ:news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399+%2B%22queen+e.%22+%2B%22aline+c.%22+%2B%22 sheila+m.%22+%2B%22russell+williams&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca



Reliable police source indicated that the OPP had recovered a box of incriminating evidences from Williams' Ottawa Westboro residence. In the box, police found Williams several merit medals of Ultra-High Flying, Super-Sonic Wing well catalogued along with trophied female underwears, panty hoses. The underwears, panty holes were well-classified and labelled with well-known names such as "Queen E.", "Aline C.", "Sheila M.", "Laureen H.", "M. Jean", "Hillary C." along with other less-known names. Due to the ultra high and international profiles of the thief victims, the British MI5, American CIA, and Canadian RCMP and CSIS have been informed. MI5 and CIA agents are sent to Ottawa along with the RCMP and CSIS agents already called in to provide assistance to the OPP officers currently working on Williams case.

and


The Citizen has reported that police recovered box of underwear trophies from Williams' home. In it, some were marked "Queen's", "Chretien's", "Martin's", "Harper's", "M. Jean's". It's believed that these underwears were stolen, and catalogued by Williams. The British MI5 and the Canadian RCMP, CSIS have been contacted and requested for assistance due to the significance of the matter. MI5 are being sent to Ottawa to assist with the on-going investigation currently carried out by the OPP.

If we are truly talking Chretien, Martin and Harper, then this guy doesn't limit himself to just women's undies.

flipflop
05-19-2010, 08:53 PM
We started off joking, but now I feel very badly about what I said. Quite the find, FF. Whew ... this guy sure doesn't have any boundaries.

I can totally see RW going through the Queens luggage and snatching a pair of her undies....I truely do wonder if she noticed any missing or if LE has contacted her on this matter. Now that would make headline news, but I am sure they will keep that one VERY quiet!!!!

flipflop
05-19-2010, 09:13 PM
I think this is the article you are talking about FF. This guy doesn't give a link, but:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pkuPVySCQfQJ:news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399+%2B%22queen+e.%22+%2B%22aline+c.%22+%2B%22 sheila+m.%22+%2B%22russell+williams&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca




and



If we are truly talking Chretien, Martin and Harper, then this guy doesn't limit himself to just women's undies.

Maybe its the wives undies of the above names!
With the MI5 being involved, does this make you think that he DID have the Queens undies? OMG I cannot stop laughing at that and I know its not a laughing matter but how does LE confront the Queen (of all people) with this.

maxfactor
05-19-2010, 10:13 PM
No wonder he didn't want the charges read out!

sillybilly
05-19-2010, 10:30 PM
Maybe its the wives undies of the above names!
With the MI5 being involved, does this make you think that he DID have the Queens undies? OMG I cannot stop laughing at that and I know its not a laughing matter but how does LE confront the Queen (of all people) with this.

Flip ... Royal Protocol is such that one "begs an audience" with the Queen. The Queen "confronts" you. It might go something like this:

"Cough .. ahem ... Your Majesty !! Ma'am ?? (coughs again while bowing and issuing a slight, nervous giggle, all the while feeling like peeing pants) ... Um, we need to discuss a matter of an utmost personal nature that we would like to delicately refer to in the future as "The Royal Briefs". It appear that a pair of your bloomers have been located in Ottawa, Canada Ma'am. Um, not to be embarassed Your Majesty, because it seems that Canadians are somewhat known for leaving their briefs in strange and tawdry places. In fact, it is common ... er no, not that Your Briefs are common, Ma'am. Just last year, The Right Honourable Maxim Bernier's briefs were left in the home of a, um .. biker chick. Thankfully yours have been located in the much more upscale location, in the home of a Canadian killer named Russ. We can be somewhat thankful that they were at least found in the capital city Ma'am. It could have been royally humiliating had they been located in Climax, Saskatchewan, or Spuzzum, BC, or some such place. You may recall Russ, Your Majesty ... the pilot whom you joked last year that his hair looked like he had gotten in the way of some serious jet blast on his trip to London to see the Queen. Yes, that Russ Ma'am, and no, we didn't tell him what you said. You are right Your Majesty ... that would not have been proper. What's that Ma'am? Oh yes ... I shall pass along to Mr. Harper that you are not amused and that you demand the return of the Royal Briefs forthwith. As you know, the Canadian government does not normally do things quickly, but in this case, I'm sure they will gladly expedite this matter in the interest of furthering international relations. Oh, no Ma'am ... I am not laughing, and Yes Ma'am ... they do assure us they haven't told anyone.

Pardon me? Oh no, sorry Your Majesty ... the colonies are actually much more civilized now. Russ will spend some time in prison, but they do not behead people in Canada anymore."

sillybilly
05-19-2010, 10:42 PM
If anyone finds my above post in poor taste, please let me know and I will delete it. I just couldn't resist toying with the concept, but it still makes me feel ill to think of the violations by this creep.

maxfactor
05-19-2010, 10:44 PM
Anyone else having trouble with that link now? I am, worked fine earlier.

antiquegirl
05-19-2010, 10:58 PM
If anyone finds my above post in poor taste, please let me know and I will delete it. I just couldn't resist toying with the concept, but it still makes me feel ill to think of the violations by this creep.

SB, I think your post was hilarious and that you should leave it alone.
Max, I can't get the link to work right now, but sometimes this happens and it comes back later.

Just think I should point out to anyone new to this particular topic that this whole fiasco started as a result of a tongue-in-cheek, anonymous comment made under a legitimate news article. The author of that post was obviously joking, as (I think) are the responses here. :crazy:

Hazel
05-19-2010, 11:41 PM
hmmm it's blank now. Hmmm someone doesn't like our Royal Gotchies Conversation.

:floorlaugh: that was hilarious SB!

Flip: This direct link works fine: http://news.suite101.com/article.cfm/col-russell-williams-tied-to-paul-bernardo-a201399

scroll down to guest's posts:

- Feb 14, 2010 12:18 AM and
- Feb 15, 2010 6:29 AM

dotr
05-19-2010, 11:42 PM
Rosebud,
Pussycat pussycat
where have you been ?
to London to visit the Queen
pussycat pussycat
what did you there?
I liberated the Royal underwear!

Sorry, just had to get that out of the way.

LilyMacBloom
05-20-2010, 07:42 AM
Since the Queen will be in Waterloo On next week touring RIM and I know someone who works there, how bout I just ask him to pass her a note about her bloomers with a link to this website and she can respond to us herself.

Sometimes a little levity is in order.

sillybilly
05-20-2010, 01:40 PM
Since the Queen will be in Waterloo On next week touring RIM and I know someone who works there, how bout I just ask him to pass her a note about her bloomers with a link to this website and she can respond to us herself.

Sometimes a little levity is in order.

So, if a n00b comes in with an avatar that looks something like this, we should be on our very best behaviour:

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz15/sillybillyyyy/corgi.jpg

pinkeyesucks
05-20-2010, 09:09 PM
By Gary Dimmock , The Ottawa Citizen May 14, 2010 6:37 AM




Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/initially+ruled+colonel+suspect/3025111/story.html

So RW thought he was asked to go to the Police Headquarters to be interviewed about poor Mr Jones!?!?!?
Just imagine what could have happened to Mr. Jones, if it wasn't for those tire threads!
Was RW planning on throwing Mr. Jones under the bus?
To have been a fly on that wall!
btw, good ruling Belleville Judge :dance:

Totally been saying that since the beginning Hazel. I don't think that Jessica's death was accidental whatsoever. He picked her up THE SAME DAY they ran a crime bulletin in the Northumberland News asking for anyone with information on Marie's whereabouts in the 24 hours proceeding her death to come forward. He was well aware of any investigating that was going on in that case. I don't think it was coincidental AT ALL that there were things missing from Mr. Jones garage (coat and lighter I believe) and that her body was left not far from his hunting camp. But what do I know....Purely speculation on my part.

Summersolstice
05-20-2010, 09:33 PM
Since the Queen will be in Waterloo On next week touring RIM and I know someone who works there, how bout I just ask him to pass her a note about her bloomers with a link to this website and she can respond to us herself.

Sometimes a little levity is in order.

Well, she is welcome to post here herself, if she can spare a few minutes. Thanks, LilyMacBloomers!

flipflop
05-20-2010, 09:35 PM
Totally been saying that since the beginning Hazel. I don't think that Jessica's death was accidental whatsoever. He picked her up THE SAME DAY they ran a crime bulletin in the Northumberland News asking for anyone with information on Marie's whereabouts in the 24 hours proceeding her death to come forward. He was well aware of any investigating that was going on in that case. I don't think it was coincidental AT ALL that there were things missing from Mr. Jones garage (coat and lighter I believe) and that her body was left not far from his hunting camp. But what do I know....Purely speculation on my part.

I 100% agree with you. I have been wondering about Mr J's belongings and if they have been found, or if RW was planning of leaving the items with his future victims to set up Mr. J as being the serial killer.

Hazel
05-20-2010, 10:56 PM
Totally been saying that since the beginning Hazel. I don't think that Jessica's death was accidental whatsoever. He picked her up THE SAME DAY they ran a crime bulletin in the Northumberland News asking for anyone with information on Marie's whereabouts in the 24 hours proceeding her death to come forward. He was well aware of any investigating that was going on in that case. I don't think it was coincidental AT ALL that there were things missing from Mr. Jones garage (coat and lighter I believe) and that her body was left not far from his hunting camp. But what do I know....Purely speculation on my part.
Yep, I found that article and posted it in Jessica's thread, very coincidental, isn't it? Now we also know that he was kept informed of all new developments/investigation regarding MF's death, so in all probability RW learned about LE requesting public assistance, even before that article was published at 4:32 pm on that dreadful day.

Another coincidence:
The lighter, he said, had grease marks so thick you could probably see his fingerprints with the naked eye. He says the strange theft happened Jan. 28, the night Lloyd disappeared from her Belleville home.
RS&BBM
http://www.canada.com/news/Williams+neighbour+struggled+with+stigma+false+att ack+accusations/2558062/story.html

Here is the link again to the Northumberland article, in case someone missed it, or wants to read it again.
http://northumberlandnews.com/news/article/147213

Hazel
05-20-2010, 11:48 PM
The following link contains 3 old CBC's videos, but somehow I missed viewing the "main" video clip in that article, and haven't seen anybody commenting on it.

That video clip contains some images I haven't seen before, and also the interview with a Tweed woman, who knows one of the surviving victims. Keep in mind this is all "hearsay", but what she relates on the 03:25 mark, made me think that perhaps RW has some type of ED??

Click on the image (RW, Peter McK. and Walter N.) to play the Video "Tweed shaken by murders"):

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/02/08/f-williams-biography.html#

antiquegirl
05-21-2010, 12:23 AM
The following link contains 3 old CBC's videos, but somehow I missed viewing the "main" video clip in that article, and haven't seen anybody commenting on it.

That video clip contains some images I haven't seen before, and also the interview with a Tweed woman, who knows one of the surviving victims. Keep in mind this is all "hearsay", but what she relates on the 03:25 mark, made me think that perhaps RW has some type of ED??

Click on the image (RW, Peter McK. and Walter N.) to play the Video "Tweed shaken by murders"):

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/02/08/f-williams-biography.html#

This is an excellent video and one I hadn't seen before either. Thank you, Hazel.

I found it informative that they showed us where poor JL's remains were found. It seems to totally discredit a previous report and posts here that she was found on a golf course.

Must have missed the part you're referring to about RW having ED. Do you mean eating disorder, or something else entirely? Sorry, it's late. TIA

flipflop
05-21-2010, 06:35 AM
The following link contains 3 old CBC's videos, but somehow I missed viewing the "main" video clip in that article, and haven't seen anybody commenting on it.

That video clip contains some images I haven't seen before, and also the interview with a Tweed woman, who knows one of the surviving victims. Keep in mind this is all "hearsay", but what she relates on the 03:25 mark, made me think that perhaps RW has some type of ED??

Click on the image (RW, Peter McK. and Walter N.) to play the Video "Tweed shaken by murders"):

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/02/08/f-williams-biography.html#

Very informative clip, thanks for finding this! This is the first that I heard that he did not rape his victim on Sept 30, but assaulted her, previous reports said rape. Either way it would have been very traumatic for this victim. Interesting to see the tire tracks, JL's house and where her body was located. Creepy that the dog walkers dog kept going into that area on his walk.

antiquegirl
05-21-2010, 09:38 AM
Very informative clip, thanks for finding this! This is the first that I heard that he did not rape his victim on Sept 30, but assaulted her, previous reports said rape. Either way it would have been very traumatic for this victim. Interesting to see the tire tracks, JL's house and where her body was located. Creepy that the dog walkers dog kept going into that area on his walk.

"While sexual assaults are associated with the crime of rape, it may cover assaults which would not be considered rape."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_Assault


I couldn't find any media reports that mention the word "rape", except when referencing the two murder victims. The two other charges use the terms "home invasions" and "sexual assaults". Sexual assault is a more blanket term that would cover stripping the victims, the bondage, the photography, and touching (as mentioned by the interviewee in the clip).

In no way am I trying to minimize the seriousness of these charges or the trauma to the victims. Just trying to point out the difference between the two terms. As I posted previously (below), the word "rape" was replaced in 1983 within the Canadian legal system in order to cover more ground and protect victims. If any of the media did use that word, it was technically incorrect.

I have always wondered if the women in the home invasions were actually "raped". If the lady in the video is to be believed, at least one was not. Not that it lessens her suffering in the slightest, but it does give us a more precise account of what happened.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada - Jessica Lloyd, 27, Belleville, Ontario 01/28/2010 thread #2


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada - Jessica Lloyd, 27, Belleville, Ontario 01/28/2010 thread #2


JMO

Wondergirl
05-21-2010, 10:38 AM
Totally been saying that since the beginning Hazel. I don't think that Jessica's death was accidental whatsoever. He picked her up THE SAME DAY they ran a crime bulletin in the Northumberland News asking for anyone with information on Marie's whereabouts in the 24 hours proceeding her death to come forward. He was well aware of any investigating that was going on in that case. I don't think it was coincidental AT ALL that there were things missing from Mr. Jones garage (coat and lighter I believe) and that her body was left not far from his hunting camp. But what do I know....Purely speculation on my part.

Thank-you for reminding me of this fact, regarding the publication in The Northumberland News. The online version of MC's article, was posted January 28th, but when was the hardcopy of this paper published? Prior to Thursday, January 28th? Some small papers have a lag in getting their hardcopy version uploaded online.

If RW was watching and stalking JL for a long time, as I believe he was, this release of a request to the public, for MC's case, could very well have set the evil plan in motion. Not by a sense of urgency such as worrying about being caught, but by a sick, twisted re-hashing, and enticement, set forth by thinking about his previous crime again.

I know one thing for sure. Poor JL did not have a chance.

Wondergirl
05-21-2010, 10:53 AM
As for poor Mr. Jones, who will surely never shake the events of the past year from his mind, I don't think LE has ever told him if they found his items or not. We likely would have heard about it in the media, if they had.

I think RW was definitely setting Jones up. JL was left right on the edge of Jones' remote property, and the fact that LE was investigating Jones and his family the whole time, right up until the arrest of RW, despite the evidence not implicating him in the assaults, probably made RW confident he was invincible.

pinkeyesucks
05-21-2010, 12:55 PM
Thank-you for reminding me of this fact, regarding the publication in The Northumberland News. The online version of MC's article, was posted January 28th, but when was the hardcopy of this paper published? Prior to Thursday, January 28th? Some small papers have a lag in getting their hardcopy version uploaded online.

If RW was watching and stalking JL for a long time, as I believe he was, this release of a request to the public, for MC's case, could very well have set the evil plan in motion. Not by a sense of urgency such as worrying about being caught, but by a sick, twisted re-hashing, and enticement, set forth by thinking about his previous crime again.

I know one thing for sure. Poor JL did not have a chance.

Not entirely sure the date of publication in hardcopy- but I do know that the Commander of CFB Trenton has aides that would keep him informed of all local news, since the position itself is partly public relations oriented. I would be willing to bet that whether it is in print or online he would have been well informed. I will look into the hard copy edition and see what I can find.

As for the items Mr. Jones said were missing, IF they were found and are connected to the case somehow they would be "evidentiary in nature", which LE have stated they will not comment on. Unless I happen to trip over Mr Jones the next time I am in Tweed I think I will be waiting a while to hear about them.

Purely speculation on my part, and my own (often warped) opinion.:)

Wondergirl
05-21-2010, 03:23 PM
I have not been able to find any reference on DND sites for the two merit medals listed as awarded to RW. If you could find reference for the medals, this would lend some verifiable legitimacy for the "find".

I don't think that has been posted, and I am not really sure if anyone would want to review it, but I thought I would post a link anyway.

Master of Defence Studies Research Project
Managing an Asymmetric World – A Case for Preventive War
By Maj D.R. Williams

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/williams-mastersresearchproject.pdf

sillybilly
05-21-2010, 04:06 PM
I have not been able to find any reference on DND sites for the two merit medals listed as awarded to RW. If you could find reference for the medals, this would lend some verifiable legitimacy for the "find".

I don't think that has been posted, and I am not really sure if anyone would want to review it, but I thought I would post a link anyway.

Master of Defence Studies Research Project
Managing an Asymmetric World – A Case for Preventive War
By Maj D.R. Williams

http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/williams-mastersresearchproject.pdf

The reference to the medals and the specific names contained in RW's cataloguing of souvenirs is believed to be nothing more than a humourous post elsewhere that we picked up on and had some fun with at the expense of Her Majesty :)

Thanks for posting the link to RW's research paper here. It has been discussed at length in another thread related to missing nuclear scientist, Lachlan Cranswick.

Summersolstice
05-21-2010, 04:59 PM
Speaking of background information, I saw this and thought it should be posted:

http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2587458
http://www.trentonian.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1648838

"The farmers say they’re troubled further by JTF 2’s very nature as a commando unit, citing comments by former general and later defence minister Gordon O’Connor.

“They’re very highly trained people who are trained in anti-social skills, I would call it – they’re trained to kill people in various ways,” O’Connor told The Ottawa Citizen in 2005.”I would prefer them to be under iron-tight discipline inside a military base.”"

He should know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_O'Connor

This is an undercurrent of what has been happening in the area of CFB Trenton.

Hazel
05-21-2010, 05:16 PM
This is an excellent video and one I hadn't seen before either. Thank you, Hazel.

I found it informative that they showed us where poor JL's remains were found. It seems to totally discredit a previous report and posts here that she was found on a golf course.

Must have missed the part you're referring to about RW having ED. Do you mean eating disorder, or something else entirely? Sorry, it's late. TIA
No problem antiquegirl; I also thought it was an interesting video, and a good lesson about how regular dogs with no training can be so helpful. Reminded me of "Roxie" the dog in the Carlington Park (Ottawa) case posted a few pages back.

Lol, no eating disorder; just a thought I had, but then I also remembered the "hairless" description, and came up with another idea, so maybe no ED after all. Sorry, for my speaking in riddles, don't want to spell it out. I PMed you ;)

more on Carlington Park case:
- http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/features/blotter/story.html?id=f0c57e9c-ecc3-4136-ad62-ef87aa347c60

- http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/05/05/ot-woman-080505.html

- http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=a78503bb-b2a9-457f-8426-822ab56b55e2

dotr
05-21-2010, 05:55 PM
This is an excellent video and one I hadn't seen before either. Thank you, Hazel.

I found it informative that they showed us where poor JL's remains were found. It seems to totally discredit a previous report and posts here that she was found on a golf course.

Must have missed the part you're referring to about RW having ED. Do you mean eating disorder, or something else entirely? Sorry, it's late. TIA

ED ? Judging from the t.v. commercials, I believe it refers to erectile dysfunction.

Macright
05-21-2010, 06:03 PM
I believe the medal with the red ribbon and bar is for 12 yrs. service with the bar added after 22 yrs. service. exemplary service that is. the other one could be something to do with either Camp Mirage service or flying royalty.

Summersolstice
05-21-2010, 07:06 PM
ED ? Judging from the t.v. commercials, I believe it refers to erectile dysfunction.

Strange, but certain drugs, including one alleged to have been used by a certain golf pro, are also prescribed by some countries for their military:

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=926

Remember the "friendly fire" incident a few years back involving American fighter pilots who killed some Canadians? "Go-nogo drugs" played a role:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/friendlyfire/gopills.html

Summersolstice
05-21-2010, 07:09 PM
No problem antiquegirl; I also thought it was an interesting video, and a good lesson about how regular dogs with no training can be so helpful. Reminded me of "Roxie" the dog in the Carlington Park (Ottawa) case posted a few pages back.

Lol, no eating disorder; just a thought I had, but then I also remembered the "hairless" description, and came up with another idea, so maybe no ED after all. Sorry, for my speaking in riddles, don't want to spell it out. I PMed you ;)

more on Carlington Park case:
- http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/features/blotter/story.html?id=f0c57e9c-ecc3-4136-ad62-ef87aa347c60

- http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/05/05/ot-woman-080505.html

- http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=a78503bb-b2a9-457f-8426-822ab56b55e2

Yes, the information on the park attacks in Ottawa was posted over in another thread: Lachlan Cranswick, I believe (or was it Jessica's?).

Hazel
05-22-2010, 02:33 AM
Yes, the information on the park attacks in Ottawa was posted over in another thread: Lachlan Cranswick, I believe (or was it Jessica's?).
Actually, it was here on RW's thread:

Post # 28: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5130494&highlight=Col.+Williams#post5130494


and

Post # 53: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5143968&highlight=Col.+Williams#post5143968