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Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 06:28 PM
snip and bbm

Good point, mgardner, but since when has Casey ever cared about how other people's money gets spent? lol

True, and Casey is only bleeding the State out of pure spite.

Remember her own infamous proclamation, "Because I'm a spiteful b!tch!"

Since she didn't care for her own baby girl, Caylee, it's understandable she also doesn't care for the poor victims she's creating within the State of Florida who have to further shoulder her self-made financial burden.

mitzi
05-11-2010, 06:31 PM
I thought the post was obvious in the fact that I am not a lawyer, but would be willing to verify myself for anything paralegal related, but highly doubt that is sufficient or you would be verified already I assume lol :D

You are certainly entitled to your opinions, even tho they differ greatly from mine. And I mean this with the utmost of respect, but....are you a paralegal for a defense attorney? Just wondered. :)

kushka
05-11-2010, 06:32 PM
She testified under oath that she has no expertise or background, that's all I'm saying. She declared that her area of expertise is derived from reading articles, and she said she didn't have much knowledge of this particular case. She kept bringing up how a woman is dressed coming to play in the gender bias, the State has never asserted that Casey's code of dress was what determined their desire to seek the death penalty...so her "expert" testimony really was irrelevant.

She outlined her experience at the start of her testimony - and it was impressive. She just later testified hat her experance did not include child psycology. I did not write it all the experance she sited down but to quote from UNM site:


When Elizabeth Rapaport joined the UNM law faculty in 1995, she brought 17 years of experience teaching philosophy and public policy, with ethics as her specialty. After earning a Ph.D. in philosophy in 1971 at Case Western Reserve University, she spent the next 12 years teaching at Boston University, University of Southern California, Brown University, Bennington College and the University of Sydney.

After earning a J.D. from Harvard Law School in 1987, she returned to the classroom at Duke University, where she taught in the school of public policy.

Her own research combines theoretical and empirical components as she looks at the effects of the legal system on a real world. Areas she has focused on include the death penalty and executive clemency.

Site:
http://lawschool.unm.edu/faculty/rapaport/index.php

Astraea
05-11-2010, 06:32 PM
I found some of what I was looking for ....here is the link from the American Bar Association for anyone else who is interested :) I am still wondering though if each States office has a more specific Policy Manual....



http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/standards/pfunc_blk.html#1.2

Horace Finklestein
05-11-2010, 06:33 PM
She has a law degree...

She's also there testifying for the defense. It's not as if having a law degree would make impartial or in any way reliable. I mean, so do Baez and Macaluso.

Melanie
05-11-2010, 06:33 PM
I find it too difficult to drum up any sympathy for Cindy after all that she has done. Maybe I could if every other day, she would sit on the state side of the courtroom, and show some tears for Caylee. Or even if just ONCE she sat on the state side. What kind of "loving" grandmother would give not one moment of caring about her own grandaughter who was so heinously murdered by KC?

Even dear Caylee's memorial was not one bit about Caylee. It's unfathomable to me. I feel nothing for Cindy or George.

Speaking of George - does anyone know where he was today. Of all days, this would seem an important one.

Just curious if anyone knows.

Hugz,

Mel

Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 06:33 PM
It seems to me that AL has the same capacity for opening mouth and inserting foot as Baez. She tells the Judge that people on blogs call her client a whore.
I don't know if Casey was actually a whore, but she certainly behaved in a sluttish way. If it's the truth what is her point?

Her point is that she hates that truth, just as she hates the truth that Casey murdered Caylee.

I have to laugh every time Baez or Lyon refers to their dislike of blogs or the 'net in general since Baez and Lyon both widely broadcast their "use of the Internet in their quest to fight cases."

Both Baez and Lyon just hate the fact that the 'net and Freedom of Speech is one thing they just can't control. :D

ZsaZsa
05-11-2010, 06:36 PM
Not true. Rick and Shirley Plesea, the anthony neighbors especially said she was a horrible mother, her friends admitted that the casey they thought they knoew doesn't exist, etc. No one with any credibility said she was a good mom.

Not only that, but the one person who saw her with Caylee more than anyone else, (Cindy) called her an unfit mother and talked to her co workers about taking custody away. You do not do that on a whim.

Horace Finklestein
05-11-2010, 06:37 PM
There is much more to the concept of justice and that first sentence in its totality than that which you have summarized. That is why I have been searching for the SAs Policy Manual, which lays out much more directly those concepts you have listed. Thank you for that information though :)

I think part the point of that sentence was that the SA bases their pursuits on different factors than who pays them, as do defense attorneys. If a prosecutor knows a person is innocent, they are not supposed to prosecute, unlike a defense attorney who must provide a defense whether or not someone is guilty.

Astraea
05-11-2010, 06:37 PM
You are certainly entitled to your opinions, even tho they differ greatly from mine. And I mean this with the utmost of respect, but....are you a paralegal for a defense attorney? Just wondered. :)

I do not have a preference to be honest and I have worked for both the prosecution and defense and also independantly for clients. Neither side is as cut and dry as most think either. To judge their ethics based on which side of court they are sitting is, in my opinion, quite foolish. Each have their positives and their negatives. A good attorney is a good attorney, and MOST have actually done BOTH jobs.

Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 06:38 PM
snip and bbm

Good point, mgardner, but since when has Casey ever cared about how other people's money gets spent? lol


At least Huckaby, as vile and horrid as she is, had the decency to plead guilty and spare the taxpayers, Sandra's loved ones and all the Attorneys a gruesome trial.

It's pretty sad when the character of Melissa Huckaby rises to a level higher than Casey Anthony, isn't it?

ZsaZsa
05-11-2010, 06:38 PM
Her point is that she hates that truth, just as she hates the truth that Casey murdered Caylee.

I have to laugh every time Baez or Lyon refers to their dislike of blogs or the 'net in general since Baez and Lyon both widely broadcast their "use of the Internet in their quest to fight cases."

Both Baez and Lyon just hate the fact that the 'net and Freedom of Speech is one thing they just can't control. :D

Yes, plus if there was a sequestered Jury listening to those comments they would have just had a great introduction to Miss Anthony's reputation. By her own Attorney, no less.

suzihawk
05-11-2010, 06:39 PM
There is much more to the concept of justice and that first sentence in its totality than that which you have summarized. That is why I have been searching for the SAs Policy Manual, which lays out much more directly those concepts you have listed. Thank you for that information though :)

I believe your question was: "what the job of the SA actually IS".

*I* didn't list anything. The information came directly from the link provided in answer to your original question.

Happy to help! :)

Astraea
05-11-2010, 06:39 PM
I think part the point of that sentence was that the SA bases their pursuits on different factors than who pays them, as do defense attorneys. If a prosecutor knows a person is innocent, they are not supposed to prosecute, unlike a defense attorney who must provide a defense whether or not someone is guilty.

It is my understanding that SAs also get paid per case....will link that when I come back across it as I was JUST reading about this very topic strangely! SAs also need to worry about reelection, whereas the defense does not :)

Chiquita71
05-11-2010, 06:40 PM
Isn't this case Caylee vs. Casey? I am really asking. I truly thought the SA fully represented the victim. As much as the defense is defending their client and is "for" them, the same is to be said of the SA and their client.

I am learning as I go, and not stating I have facts. I mostly get this impression from watching Forensic Files, American Justice, The Investigators, etc. Also, that is how it is always portrayed on the lawyer shows i.e. L.A. Law, Cold Case, etc.

TIA.

logicalgirl
05-11-2010, 06:40 PM
To make sense of my post here...Amil called the ladies behind the defense, Andrea's ladies-in-waiting. LOL.



Maybe like me, it made you picture ALyon(s) and her "flock" in the "frocks" of Shakespearian times. Ah yes, the Taming of the Shrew! :crazy:
:eek:

logicalgirl
05-11-2010, 06:41 PM
It is my understanding that SAs also get paid per case....will link that when I come back across it as I was JUST reading about this very topic strangely! SAs also need to worry about reelection, whereas the defense does not :)

As State employees, surely they are salaried.

sayd
05-11-2010, 06:42 PM
Egads, Iím so embarrassed, Iím from Albuquerque, NM, lived here my entire life, and I have never heard of this person Elizabeth Rapaport. I guess just a nobody trying to make a big name for herself.

Justice for CAYLEE.

Muzikman
05-11-2010, 06:43 PM
Were you there today Muzikman? If so did anything in particular stand out for you?

Yes...

Haven't re-watched the hearing yet, so I don't know if this was caught on camera or not: After the so-called "expert witness" brouhaha and the missing CV that Andrea supposedly sent, she went over to Ashton and whispered while shrugging her shoulders and raising her eyebrows "I swear I sent it."
Musta been parcel post instead of overnight. :crazy:

Ashton's two phrases were great.

Thought I caught Andrea saying something about "Not as familiar with Florida Law", will have to re-watch.

Joy Wray showed up about 9:20 - came in with Cheney Mason (???) and Hornsby followed a couple minutes later, and stayed for the whole hearing.

No Conway today, musta been with George. heh

Anybody catch the name of the book Andrea referenced? Something about "_______ the Stranger"?

Anybody figure out who the other lady is, the one that sat next to Casey while they were doing the sidebar?

That's about it for now...

strawberry
05-11-2010, 06:44 PM
Hey I just found a facebook page for JP!!

countzero
05-11-2010, 06:46 PM
I watched the hearing while I was attempting to cook this morning and just reviewed the raw video.

My personal observations of ICA "tears" were tears for herself. The first batch was a repeat of prior hearings where she "shed" a few. Wipe, wipe, lookie, lookie, grab a tissue, wipe, lookie, wipe, wipe, lookie-lookie. She only wears mascara so she is able to actually view a black "tear" on the tissue.

She exhibits "normal" responses only when she is told to do them by JB or AL(s). She exhibits her anger when the current situation isn't going her way, i.e. getting red in the face, grabbing her hands/fingers. That is when her emotions are real for her. Then she moves on to responding when told to again by either JB or AL(s).

She was, I feel, pondering whether Jeff was going to do a repeat of how the state believes Caylee was murdered by ICA when AL(s) was giving her speech on the states lack to inform the defense on the whys and wheres the DP came about. She was sweating bullets and swallowing hard on that one.

It's all about ICA, no one else. She had to wear the same clothing as yesterday. She had to be in a chair in a court room where she didn't want to be. She had to acknowledge CA when she didn't want to. She had to shed tears on demand. She was forced to perform, not by her choice.

marspiter
05-11-2010, 06:47 PM
There is much more to the concept of justice and that first sentence in its totality than that which you have summarized. That is why I have been searching for the SAs Policy Manual, which lays out much more directly those concepts you have listed. Thank you for that information though :)

Well considering that Florida was the first state to add victims rights to its state constitution and that the State Attorneys office has a Victim Witness Services division. Also considering that Florida statues have an entire chapter in their laws devoted to victims of crime. Well I would say it's a safe bet that one could interpret the SA as being a voice for victims in a criminal matter.

Link to SA office and Division of Victim Services:
http://sa18.state.fl.us/vicsvcs/vicwit.htm

Link to Florida Constitution regarding victims rights:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=Constitution&Submenu=3&Tab=statutes#A01S16

Link to Florida statutes on victims of crime:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0960/titl0960.htm&StatuteYear=2006&Title=-%3E2006-%3EChapter%20960

Numbers
05-11-2010, 06:47 PM
Yes...

Haven't re-watched the hearing yet, so I don't know if this was caught on camera or not: After the so-called "expert witness" brouhaha and the missing CV that Andrea supposedly sent, she went over to Ashton and whispered while shrugging her shoulders and raising her eyebrows "I swear I sent it."
Musta been parcel post instead of overnight. :crazy:

Ashton's two phrases were great.

Thought I caught Andrea saying something about "Not as familiar with Florida Law", will have to re-watch.

Joy Wray showed up about 9:20 - came in with Cheney Mason (???) and Hornsby followed a couple minutes later, and stayed for the whole hearing.

No Conway today, musta been with George. heh

Anybody catch the name of the book Andrea referenced? Something about "_______ the Stranger"?

Anybody figure out who the other lady is, the one that sat next to Casey while they were doing the sidebar?

That's about it for now...

Albert Camus - "The Stranger"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stranger_(novel)

Paintr
05-11-2010, 06:49 PM
It is my understanding that SAs also get paid per case....will link that when I come back across it as I was JUST reading about this very topic strangely! SAs also need to worry about reelection, whereas the defense does not :)

Defense lawyers don't have to get elected but they sure do have to get hired. :)

Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 06:49 PM
It is my understanding that SAs also get paid per case....will link that when I come back across it as I was JUST reading about this very topic strangely! SAs also need to worry about reelection, whereas the defense does not :)


Baez has bigger things to worry about than any silly election, like whether or not he's going to retain his Esq. title when this case is over.

I'm thinking not so much. ;)

Soju
05-11-2010, 06:49 PM
ITA 100%! That's what the State seemed to be trying to get across when cross-examining this witness and saying her testimony is irrelevant. They aren't arguing that she's a "bad mom" because of being "scantily clad" or having party photos. The photos only come into play because of WHEN they were taken, and what they depict..not a mom out having a good night while sweet baby is at home with the grandparents or a babysitter or daddy..but a mom having a blast despite the fact that her child is "missing" (deceased). And said mom having not reported to the police as to the well-being of the child, and going about partying anyway - leads most to believe this was a homicide - not an accident - and done so with the hopes of no one finding out what happened. IMO.

call me biased, as my opinion on casey's guilt is no secret, but if I were the state, I would also argue that the 'before' pictures are relevant in that they show a pattern of behaviour consistent with what casey was doing AFTER caylee went 'missing', thereby negating any defense attempt to claim that casey was simply engaged in 'ugly coping'. Rather, the pictures show that for casey, it was 'life as usual' after her daughter went missing.

notice in my argument I didn't say anything about her character or her manner of dress, just that the photos show a pattern of behaviour, without making any judgments whatsoever on the nature of that behaviour.

Astraea
05-11-2010, 06:50 PM
I believe your question was: "what the job of the SA actually IS".

*I* didn't list anything. The information came directly from the link provided in answer to your original question.

Happy to help! :)

I was referencing your summarization wherein you stated:

"The first sentence says it all.

Seeking justice for an innocent two year old murder victim. That's about as pure as it gets."

I am very thankful for the information and links you posted of course. I was merely pointing out that it is my opinion that the SAs job is to seek justice. Sadly, the notion of justice encompasses MUCH more than the the victim, in this case Caylee :(

I will assume that there is no such thread here. I think it would be helpful for others to understand the roles of key players and certain procedures within the judicial system. This may make the coming trial a little less emotionally charged I think. JMO of course...lol..maybe one day I will start a thread in here somewhere :innocent:

What'sThatClue
05-11-2010, 06:50 PM
Yes...

Anybody catch the name of the book Andrea referenced? Something about "_______ the Stranger"?

..

respectfully snipped.

The book is by an author named Albert Camus and titled The Stranger.

denjet
05-11-2010, 06:51 PM
Why does this particular issue keep coming back up? (RE: Why DP was put back on the table)

JA laid out the State's theory in open court on a silver platter for crying out loud! Is it just that the defense wants it in writing?

Many, including AL, are pretending to forget that whole speech from JA, that one could conclude that poor Caylee may have looked into the eyes of her murderer, that being her own mother, as she was suffocated via duct tape and restrained by physical and/or chemical means.

How could you forget it?

ETA: I'm sure this was addressed. I read through some of the thread, but it was the part that bugged me the most during this hearing. The state has said plainly what route they are going. Does the defense need their hands held?

Bugs me too, bigtime ... the defense claims ignorance as to the state's aggravating circumstances yet the following motions were filed last November:

Motion to Declare Section 921.141(5)(d)Florida Statute and/or the Section 921.141(5)(d) Standard Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied and to Preclude their Application (The capital felony was committed during Ö aggravated child abuse)
Motion to Declare Fla. Stat. 921.141(5)(h) and/or the Standard (5)(h) Jury Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (The capital felony was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel)
Motion to Declare Florida Statutes 921.141(5)(I) Unconstitutional and to Preclude its Use in the Present Case (The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification)
Motion to Declare Florida Statute 921.141(5)(L) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied, and to Preclude its Use in the Case at Bar ((l)**The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age)
Motion to Declare 921.141(5)(M) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (Victim Vulnerable Due to Age, Disability, or Familial or Custodial Authority(*The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to advanced age or disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim)

So, again, if they have NO IDEA why the death penalty is being sought, why, oh why did they file motions BEFORE the state informed them ?????

I'm thinking the defense is looking for a much more detailed list of factors including the evidence the state will use to argue them .... which is the part I don't get ... isn't the state just being made to list the aggravating circumstances they intend to prove ???

Muzikman
05-11-2010, 06:52 PM
Her point is that she hates that truth, just as she hates the truth that Casey murdered Caylee.

I have to laugh every time Baez or Lyon refers to their dislike of blogs or the 'net in general since Baez and Lyon both widely broadcast their "use of the Internet in their quest to fight cases."

Both Baez and Lyon just hate the fact that the 'net and Freedom of Speech is one thing they just can't control. :D

BBM

But they try anyways, don't they? :crazy:

Macushla
05-11-2010, 06:53 PM
I would be happy to address this, but I'm not sure what you're asking. Wouldn't the job of the SA be the same in any jurisdiction?

I may be too late in posting this but I have the strongest urge to shout "Don't open that door AZlawyer - you don't know what is behind it" :angel:

Astraea
05-11-2010, 06:54 PM
Well considering that Florida was the first state to add victims rights to its state constitution and that the State Attorneys office has a Victim Witness Services division. Also considering that Florida statues have an entire chapter in their laws devoted to victims of crime. Well I would say it's a safe bet that one could interpret the SA as being a voice for victims in a criminal matter.

Link to SA office and Division of Victim Services:
http://sa18.state.fl.us/vicsvcs/vicwit.htm

Link to Florida Constitution regarding victims rights:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?Mode=Constitution&Submenu=3&Tab=statutes#A01S16

Link to Florida statutes on victims of crime:
http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0960/titl0960.htm&StatuteYear=2006&Title=-%3E2006-%3EChapter%20960

Thank you. I am aware of all these services (which we also have), but this is not the information that I was referencing :)

Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 06:55 PM
I watched the hearing while I was attempting to cook this morning and just reviewed the raw video.

My personal observations of ICA "tears" were tears for herself. The first batch was a repeat of prior hearings where she "shed" a few. Wipe, wipe, lookie, lookie, grab a tissue, wipe, lookie, wipe, wipe, lookie-lookie. She only wears mascara so she is able to actually view a black "tear" on the tissue.

She exhibits "normal" responses only when she is told to do them by JB or AL(s). She exhibits her anger when the current situation isn't going her way, i.e. getting red in the face, grabbing her hands/fingers. That is when her emotions are real for her. Then she moves on to responding when told to again by either JB or AL(s).

She was, I feel, pondering whether Jeff was going to do a repeat of how the state believes Caylee was murdered by ICA when AL(s) was giving her speech on the states lack to inform the defense on the whys and wheres the DP came about. She was sweating bullets and swallowing hard on that one.

It's all about ICA, no one else. She had to wear the same clothing as yesterday. She had to be in a chair in a court room where she didn't want to be. She had to acknowledge CA when she didn't want to. She had to shed tears on demand. She was forced to perform, not by her choice.

Casey's phony-baloney tears are revolting considering the fact that she didn't shed one single tear for Caylee while she was talking (lying through her huge teeth) to LE, the FBI, or in jail house phone calls with George & Cindy.

In fact, Casey was giggling, actually giggling out loud when she asked George why Cindy was crying! :rolleyes:

Who does that sort of stuff?

Casey is seriously mentally impaired, obviously not to the degree of legal mental insanity, but just enough to be a cold, calculating, heartless shell, void of love, compassion or concern not only for Caylee, but for her parents as well.

marspiter
05-11-2010, 06:55 PM
To add further. Here is the mission statement for the Florida State Attorneys Office.

"To pursue vigorous and fair prosecution of criminal cases, with a commitment to serve as an advocate for the rights of all victims, and promote the safety and well-being of the public."

repeated:

The mission of our office is threefold:
1. To pursue vigorous and fair prosecution of criminal cases.
2. To advocate for the rights of all victims.
3. To promote the safety and well-being of the public.

The vision of the State Attorneys Office for Florida.

Vision

"To excel and be acknowledged as a leader in providing quality prosecution, exceptional service to victims, and for our work in partnership with the community in providing early intervention and preventive education programs for juveniles, consistent with the safety and well-being of the public."

http://sa18.state.fl.us/mission/mvv.htm

In short...yes the SA's office is an advocate for the victim.

ecs5298
05-11-2010, 06:56 PM
I may be too late in posting this but I have the strongest urge to shout "Don't open that door AZlawyer - you don't know what is behind it" :angel:


I think it's too late.

Now I'm just trying to figure out what the heck the point of all of it is????:waitasec::waitasec::waitasec:

RR0004
05-11-2010, 06:57 PM
what mean comments about AL's appearance, apparently her figure from behind doesn't meet some people's requirements? Whatever. Heaven forbid anyone should make the sort of commentary about the prosecutors as goes on about the defense attorneys.
Making fun of stuttering, their figure, mispronunciations, etc. Oh well.
IIRC...weren't there comments about JA's eye-rolling...or was that anothe DA? Personally...I welcome a little bit of brevity...and eyewitness accounts (so to speak)...I feel like I'm there 'cause I have yet to watch the hearing.

ecs5298
05-11-2010, 06:58 PM
To add further. Here is the mission statement for the Florida State Attorneys Office.

"To pursue vigorous and fair prosecution of criminal cases, with a commitment to serve as an advocate for the rights of all victims, and promote the safety and well-being of the public."

repeated:

The mission of our office is threefold:
1. To pursue vigorous and fair prosecution of criminal cases.
2. To advocate for the rights of all victims.
3. To promote the safety and well-being of the public.

The vision of the State Attorneys Office for Florida.

Vision

"To excel and be acknowledged as a leader in providing quality prosecution, exceptional service to victims, and for our work in partnership with the community in providing early intervention and preventive education programs for juveniles, consistent with the safety and well-being of the public."

http://sa18.state.fl.us/mission/mvv.htm

In short...yes the SA's office is an advocate for the victim.


Thank you!

babiesstolemydingo
05-11-2010, 06:58 PM
I was referencing your summarization wherein you stated:

"The first sentence says it all.

Seeking justice for an innocent two year old murder victim. That's about as pure as it gets."

I am very thankful for the information and links you posted of course. I was merely pointing out that it is my opinion that the SAs job is to seek justice. Sadly, the notion of justice encompasses MUCH more than the the victim, in this case Caylee :(

I will assume that there is no such thread here. I think it would be helpful for others to understand the roles of key players and certain procedures within the judicial system. This may make the coming trial a little less emotionally charged I think. JMO of course...lol..maybe one day I will start a thread in here somewhere :innocent:



BBM. Sounds like a good idea. I was under the impression that this thread is about today's hearing.:(

marspiter
05-11-2010, 06:58 PM
Thank you. I am aware of all these services (which we also have), but this is not the information that I was referencing :)

Go to the first link I provided. Here it is.

http://sa18.state.fl.us/index.htm

This will pretty much answer any question you have about the SA's office in Florida.

Astraea
05-11-2010, 07:00 PM
As State employees, surely they are salaried.

From what I can tell thus far, yes in Florida it is a salary position, sorry for the thinking out loud :)

ETA: I read "state attorneys" and can not find the link now, but upon deeper thought processing have come to the conclusion that they must have meant public defenders who are aslo "state attorneys" lol!

gngr~snap
05-11-2010, 07:04 PM
and who cares what the bloggers say anyway?

Unless, of course, they have a good idea. . .

LOL! JB does! cause allegedly we sit around and evaluate cell phone records to determine the amount of sleep KC was getting during those infamous 30/31 days.
he scoffed at this, but looking at the sheer number of texts that were being sent and rec'd how can someone be sleeping? Is "sleep texting" possible? :waitasec:
we "bloggers" must have hit a nerve there! :woohoo:

Astraea
05-11-2010, 07:04 PM
Go to the first link I provided. Here it is.

http://sa18.state.fl.us/index.htm

This will pretty much answer any question you have about the SA's office in Florida.

Thank you. I have already located the page(s) I was seeking, but appreciate your effort :)

marspiter
05-11-2010, 07:05 PM
From what I can tell thus far, yes in Florida it is a salary position, sorry for the thinking out loud :)

ETA: I read "state attorneys" and can not find the link now, but upon deeper thought processing have come to the conclusion that they must have meant public defenders who are aslo "state attorneys" lol!

Link to salary information for Florida SA.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0027/SEC35.HTM&Title=-%3E2008-%3ECh0027-%3ESection%2035#0027.35

legalmania
05-11-2010, 07:08 PM
Not only that, but the one person who saw her with Caylee more than anyone else, (Cindy) called her an unfit mother and talked to her co workers about taking custody away. You do not do that on a whim.

And yet nobody call child services. You would think if Cindy wanted custody she would realize she needed some kind of documented proof. I called CPS on one of my relatives, because she left her two year old with a 10 year old. I called them and they told me to go get the kid. When my relative called me, asking me where the baby was, I told her CPS said don't give her back. I gave the baby to her father, and helped him win custody. My relative didn't talk to me for a couple of years but she eventually thanked me because she realized she wasn't mature enough to raise a child yet.

Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 07:14 PM
And yet nobody call child services. You would think if Cindy wanted custody she would realize she needed some kind of documented proof. I called CPS on one of my relatives, because she left her two year old with a 10 year old. I called them and they told me to go get the kid. When my relative called me, asking me where the baby was, I told her CPS said don't give her back. I gave the baby to her father, and helped him win custody. My relative didn't talk to me for a couple of years but she eventually thanked me because she realized she wasn't mature enough to raise a child yet.

Which just goes to show that Cindy didn't advocate for Caylee before she was murdered any better than she has since she was murdered.

Cindy was all about tiptoeing around and pleasing Casey, and still is.

nanny1
05-11-2010, 07:17 PM
Men can be scantily clad as well, they just rarely do it in a mixed-company night club. But why does that matter anyway? Didn't JP imply yesterday that KC's attire should not be the sole reason for using the pictures?

Dont't forget to include while their toddler is missing for 31 days !!

Astraea
05-11-2010, 07:17 PM
[/B]


BBM. Sounds like a good idea. I was under the impression that this thread is about today's hearing.:(

Me too :) I of course apologized for the initial OT where I asked if such a thread existed. I should have known it would spiral WAY out THERE though.


It would be nice for everyone to know what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial. It isnt all Law and Order/CSI as some would like to believe. Justice is not only about the victim when it comes to the legal terminology/processes/systems, as much as most people would like it to be :(

ynotdivein
05-11-2010, 07:19 PM
Hi again campers. Am I alone in really really being intrigued by GA's absence today? Has he missed any hearings previously?

Certainly he may be working. Maybe his employer wouldn't allow him to take time off two consecutive days in a row. But if he had to choose only one, why on earth wouldn't he want to be there to show support during the DP hearing?

And in his absence suddenly KC makes eye contact/telegraphs messages to CA. Hmmmm. :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be interesting if GA became the first Anthony to "cross the aisle" and sit on Caylee's side? Of course even there he won't be safe from the looming bus, but it would make a statement.

Chiquita71
05-11-2010, 07:21 PM
Me too :) I of course apologized for the initial OT where I asked if such a thread existed. I should have known it would spiral WAY out THERE though.


It would be nice for everyone to know what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial. It isnt all Law and Order/CSI as some would like to believe. Justice is not only about the victim when it comes to the legal terminology/processes/systems, as much as most people would like it to be :(

I know I referred to television as my sources, but I also explained that I was learning. To twist my words and make it seem like I was using television as the source of a true belief system, and not just a way of conveying my lack of education, is insulting to say the least.

:twocents:

Soju
05-11-2010, 07:23 PM
Hi again campers. Am I alone in really really being intrigued by GA's absence today? Has he missed any hearings previously?

Certainly he may be working. Maybe his employer wouldn't allow him to take time off two consecutive days in a row. But if he had to choose only one, why on earth wouldn't he want to be there to show support during the DP hearing?

And in his absence suddenly KC makes eye contact/telegraphs messages to CA. Hmmmm. :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be interesting if GA became the first Anthony to "cross the aisle" and sit on Caylee's side? Of course even there he won't be safe from the looming bus, but it would make a statement.


You're not alone. It seems like a big deal to me, too. Especially since he and cindy have been so consistent in attending every hearing; it's not as if they just randomly show up here and there whenever they can. His absence spoke volumes to me, but about what, I'm not sure.

marspiter
05-11-2010, 07:24 PM
Me too :) I of course apologized for the initial OT where I asked if such a thread existed. I should have known it would spiral WAY out THERE though.


It would be nice for everyone to know what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial. It isnt all Law and Order/CSI as some would like to believe. Justice is not only about the victim when it comes to the legal terminology/processes/systems, as much as most people would like it to be :(

However it should be noted that the Florida SA's office is an advocate for the victim in criminal proceedings and Florida does have many measures in place to support victims of crime and give them a voice in the court system.

whiteangora
05-11-2010, 07:26 PM
I was referencing your summarization wherein you stated:

"The first sentence says it all.

Seeking justice for an innocent two year old murder victim. That's about as pure as it gets."

I am very thankful for the information and links you posted of course. I was merely pointing out that it is my opinion that the SAs job is to seek justice. Sadly, the notion of justice encompasses MUCH more than the the victim, in this case Caylee :(

I will assume that there is no such thread here. I think it would be helpful for others to understand the roles of key players and certain procedures within the judicial system. This may make the coming trial a little less emotionally charged I think. JMO of course...lol..maybe one day I will start a thread in here somewhere :innocent:
bbm

I prefer the KISS way.
SA and co = Prosecution
JB and co = Defense

beach
05-11-2010, 07:26 PM
I know I referred to television as my sources, but I also explained that I was learning. To twist my words and make it seem like I was using television as the source of a true belief system, and not just a way of conveying my lack of education, is insulting to say the least.

:twocents:

You've got a lot of company sitting next to you, Chiquita. :hug:

Most of us happen to know how intelligent you are because we have read your posts for a long time.

denjet
05-11-2010, 07:26 PM
The aggravating factors will be listed in broad terms with little or no detail of the State's intended theories. AFAIK, these are the 4 aggravating factors:


The capital felony involved aggravated child abuse
It was premeditated
The victim was under the age of 12
The defendant was the victim's parent (snipped from article)

http://www.wesh.com/news/23488034/detail.html

I hope you're right about broad terms ... after listening to Jose at the presser after court, he's making it sound like they are going to get to hear the whole case the state has against their client !! I'm pretty sure Jose is not getting what he thinks he's getting ....

Two other factors that the state could list are:

The capital felony was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel

The capital felony was committed for pecuniary gain

nanny1
05-11-2010, 07:27 PM
ER hasn't really interviewed or done much study on prosecutorial

She's read newspapers....

So haven't all of us .. I'm insulted that none of us were called as expert witness'..:banghead:

beach
05-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Gotta just say Bond is gonna have a stroke when he sees this thread is up to 53 pgs.

tick-a-lock

snowshuze
05-11-2010, 07:28 PM
Me too :) I of course apologized for the initial OT where I asked if such a thread existed. I should have known it would spiral WAY out THERE though.


It would be nice for everyone to know what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial. It isnt all Law and Order/CSI as some would like to believe. Justice is not only about the victim when it comes to the legal terminology/processes/systems, as much as most people would like it to be :(

As the saying goes <for most of us> "This ain't our first rodeo".
But thank you for your input. :)

LeLe1953
05-11-2010, 07:29 PM
Anyone realize KC only cries when AL is in the room? Perhaps AL coaches her to do so?

That's the million dollar question. Is it:
A: Because AL & JB have a big ole peeled onion in their brief case
OR
B: AL has sex toys in her brief case that KC gets a peek at now & again & cries cause she can't have em OR
C: KC's account is bone dry & there is no money for batteries for the sex toys.

My vote is B

ZsaZsa
05-11-2010, 07:31 PM
And yet nobody call child services. You would think if Cindy wanted custody she would realize she needed some kind of documented proof. I called CPS on one of my relatives, because she left her two year old with a 10 year old. I called them and they told me to go get the kid. When my relative called me, asking me where the baby was, I told her CPS said don't give her back. I gave the baby to her father, and helped him win custody. My relative didn't talk to me for a couple of years but she eventually thanked me because she realized she wasn't mature enough to raise a child yet.

I think Cindy was/is very afraid of Casey. Now we see why...

sayd
05-11-2010, 07:32 PM
Aargh...I want to scream. I was a party girl when I was in my early 20's. Maybe I wasn't the perfect mom, but I sure loved my babies. Oh yeah, I was white and middle class. I think there were 100 million of us like that...AND WE DIDN'T KILL OUR BABIES!

Now happily in my 50's with wonderful kids who are in their 30's..

What are you thinking Andrea Lyon??? What about Caylee? Jose B, quit thinking with your other head...is that your wallet or the other part?:banghead:

Why do you defend a baby killer?

Sorry, I just don't get it. I will shut up now and go back to lurking.

Dignity4Victims
05-11-2010, 07:32 PM
Me too :) I of course apologized for the initial OT where I asked if such a thread existed. I should have known it would spiral WAY out THERE though.


It would be nice for everyone to know what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial. It isnt all Law and Order/CSI as some would like to believe. Justice is not only about the victim when it comes to the legal terminology/processes/systems, as much as most people would like it to be :(

Most everyone on this board offers something knowledgeable, so please stop insulting the audience.

It isn't appreciated nor is it necessary to continually put others down.

Many of us have vast legal and criminal education and experience, others have medical backgrounds, forensics and other forms of Scientific expertise, and for those who do not, they offer the most valued and treasured gift of pure logic coming from caring hearts.

This really isn't our first rodeo.

Macushla
05-11-2010, 07:33 PM
Me too :) I of course apologized for the initial OT where I asked if such a thread existed. I should have known it would spiral WAY out THERE though.


It would be nice for everyone to know what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial. It isnt all Law and Order/CSI as some would like to believe. Justice is not only about the victim when it comes to the legal terminology/processes/systems, as much as most people would like it to be :(

While for someone who is not 'native' to the US or been here awhile, I am sure there are going to be questions about hearings, experts, etc.

On this proposed thread, who exactly would be 'teaching' everyone what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial?

I have found in my time here on WS that a majority of the people here have a pretty da*n good idea about how justice works andknow what to expect from pre trial hearings and trials. When someone does have questions, we have our very own wonderful legal experts who are willing to answer our questions free of charge (at least I haven't gotten a bill yet!)

This system has worked pretty good for me so far, and from looking at all the trials this forum has discussed, seems to have worked well for a long, long time. My daddy used to say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Sparky
05-11-2010, 07:37 PM
I know I referred to television as my sources, but I also explained that I was learning. To twist my words and make it seem like I was using television as the source of a true belief system, and not just a way of conveying my lack of education, is insulting to say the least.

:twocents:

I may not post much Chiquita, but I always love to read your posts. You are always so sweet :)

lauriej
05-11-2010, 07:37 PM
..i have no idea who the woman were that were seated behind the defense table today are-------but doesn't AL often bring students to court with her?

..the one who sat WITH kc, while the rest were at sidebar---and kc gave a big hug to at the end of the hearing--------could she be j.barrett, the mitigation specialist ( baez indicated they have formed a close bond at the last hearing) present b/c today AL would be speaking of mitigating factors? do we know what j.barrett looks like?

whiteangora
05-11-2010, 07:37 PM
Most everyone on this board offers something knowledgeable, so please stop insulting the audience.

It isn't appreciated nor is it necessary to continually put others down.

Many of us have vast legal and criminal education and experience, others have medical backgrounds, forensics and other forms of Scientific expertise, and for those who do not, they offer the most valued and treasured gift of pure logic coming from caring hearts.

This really isn't our first rodeo.

Thank you!
I have no legal degrees or any other degrees for that matter but I am not having any difficulty following this case or understanding "What is going on". I feel as though I am being talked down to and I resent it.

LeLe1953
05-11-2010, 07:38 PM
You missed the sex toys and wild drunken possibly bisexual dance.

OMG, You just brought a graphic into my mind that I didn't need to see.
Can u imagine, in closing argument, AL pushes a covered table up to the jury. She throws back her hair, pushes out her butt & pulls the cover off the table to reveal a variety of sex toys, most of them HUGE, all with batteries, the rabitts dancing their way across the table with a buzz buzz buzz. AL, in loud, distressed voice, tosses her hair once again, grabs the stipper pole next to the table & yells to the jury " You CAN NOT find my pet, ur, client guilty on the basis on giant, buzzing, vibrating sex toys and a stripper pole." She then grabs the biggest, badest, loudest sex toy in both hands, falls to her knees & shouts " Where's the justice! In the name of all pole stripping, sex toy lovin females everywhere, you must not find her guilty. If the toy don't fit, you must acquit!!"

ZsaZsa
05-11-2010, 07:40 PM
So haven't all of us .. I'm insulted that none of us were called as expert witness'..:banghead:

I wonder how much the taxpayers were billed for that waste of time?
The good thing is I am buoyed by the thought that this is the standard of 'expert witness' that impresses AL ... with people like Jeff Ashton and Linda DB prosecuting this should be fun!

ecs5298
05-11-2010, 07:43 PM
While for someone who is not 'native' to the US or been here awhile, I am sure there are going to be questions about hearings, experts, etc.

On this proposed thread, who exactly would be 'teaching' everyone what to expect during these pre trial hearings and the upcoming trial?

I have found in my time here on WS that a majority of the people here have a pretty da*n good idea about how justice works andknow what to expect from pre trial hearings and trials. When someone does have questions, we have our very own wonderful legal experts who are willing to answer our questions free of charge (at least I haven't gotten a bill yet!)

This system has worked pretty good for me so far, and from looking at all the trials this forum has discussed, seems to have worked well for a long, long time. My daddy used to say "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"


And we have a winner for the Post of the Day!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Sorry for the OT....a simple "Thanks" was not enough for Mac's excellent post!

LambChop
05-11-2010, 07:46 PM
Thank you!
I have no legal degrees or any other degrees for that matter but I am not having any difficulty following this case or understanding "What is going on". I feel as though I am being talked down to and I resent it.

Plus we have a Legal Question Thread here. If we have a question.....and we all do....we just go to the Legal Question Thread and ask....magically we get our answer in a easy to understand form. Thank you AZlawyer for your help. jmo

Soju
05-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Amen. I have 2 Bachelor's Degrees, a Law Degree, and a Master's Degree. I come here to learn about specific cases as a matter of personal interest, and share opinions, but I certainly don't come here to be taught. Furthermore, because I haven't been nor seek to be "vetted" by Tricia, I don't offer any opinions or statements as an expert or imply that I know any more than anyone else on WS. I respect every single poster's opinion, and don't think anyone on here needs to be lectured or talked down to.

legalmania
05-11-2010, 07:49 PM
Hi again campers. Am I alone in really really being intrigued by GA's absence today? Has he missed any hearings previously?

Certainly he may be working. Maybe his employer wouldn't allow him to take time off two consecutive days in a row. But if he had to choose only one, why on earth wouldn't he want to be there to show support during the DP hearing?

And in his absence suddenly KC makes eye contact/telegraphs messages to CA. Hmmmm. :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be interesting if GA became the first Anthony to "cross the aisle" and sit on Caylee's side? Of course even there he won't be safe from the looming bus, but it would make a statement.

I think GA is still in a fragile state and maybe he isn't ready to handle hearing about his daughter possibly getting the DP.

Reagan
05-11-2010, 07:52 PM
LeLe, I really really wish you would stop talking about AL, KC and vibrators in the same sentences. Just cause you got stuck with the imagery in your head didn't mean you had to scar the rest of us poor souls!

Im gonna vomit. I can taste it. My mouth is all watery and gross. Ugh

denjet
05-11-2010, 07:52 PM
..i have no idea who the woman were that were seated behind the defense table today are-------but doesn't AL often bring students to court with her?

..the one who sat WITH kc, while the rest were at sidebar---and kc gave a big hug to at the end of the hearing--------could she be j.barrett, the mitigation specialist ( baez indicated they have formed a close bond at the last hearing) present b/c today AL would be speaking of mitigating factors? do we know what j.barrett looks like?

I was wondering the same exact thing given the topics that were being discussed today ... It's obviously someone KC has come to know somehow, but who? I haven't been able to find out what she looks like ... Maybe one of you super sleuthers can figure out who she is and what she looks like ...

The info from DePaul website:

Jeanene Barrett is the Mitigation Specialist for the CJCC. Jeanene joined the CJCC in March, 2008 after having worked within the child welfare field for over eleven years. She is also a Criminal Justice adjunct faculty member at Westwood College. Jeanene received her M.A. in Social Work from the University of Chicago School of Social Service Administration, M.S. degree in Human Services Administration from Spertus College, and a B.S. in Criminal Justice from Southern Illinois University, Carbondale.

http://www.law.depaul.edu/centers_institutes/cjcc/death_penalty_seminar.asp

Lanie
05-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Albert Camus - "The Stranger"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stranger_(novel)

Wonder what literary work of fiction will be referred to/used instead of actual citing of relevant cases next motion hearing?

Numbers
05-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Wonder what literary work of fiction will be referred to/used instead of actual citing of relevant cases next motion hearing?

I might suggest "Crime and Punishment."

Lanie
05-11-2010, 07:58 PM
Bugs me too, bigtime ... the defense claims ignorance as to the state's aggravating circumstances yet the following motions were filed last November:

Motion to Declare Section 921.141(5)(d)Florida Statute and/or the Section 921.141(5)(d) Standard Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied and to Preclude their Application (The capital felony was committed during Ö aggravated child abuse)
Motion to Declare Fla. Stat. 921.141(5)(h) and/or the Standard (5)(h) Jury Instruction Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (The capital felony was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel)
Motion to Declare Florida Statutes 921.141(5)(I) Unconstitutional and to Preclude its Use in the Present Case (The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification)
Motion to Declare Florida Statute 921.141(5)(L) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied, and to Preclude its Use in the Case at Bar ((l)**The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age)
Motion to Declare 921.141(5)(M) Unconstitutional Facially and as Applied (Victim Vulnerable Due to Age, Disability, or Familial or Custodial Authority(*The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to advanced age or disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim)

So, again, if they have NO IDEA why the death penalty is being sought, why, oh why did they file motions BEFORE the state informed them ?????

I'm thinking the defense is looking for a much more detailed list of factors including the evidence the state will use to argue them .... which is the part I don't get ... isn't the state just being made to list the aggravating circumstances they intend to prove ???

BBM

Yes, and when the State does send the list of aggravating circumstances, be prepared for the defense to file motions asking the court to make the state explain why they feel these aggravating circumstances apply. JA stated in court today both sides need to do their job, and apparently the defense disagrees. All above MOO.

Macushla
05-11-2010, 08:00 PM
Wonder what literary work of fiction will be referred to/used instead of actual citing of relevant cases next motion hearing?

Oh that is just too funny! Now, Lanie, you have to start your very own thread about what books do we think should be cited at the next motions hearing. Or mix and match, you list the books and we try to guess which motions they are being used for.

Thanks for a very good laugh, I needed one to help my blood pressure go down a wee bit:woohoo:

LambChop
05-11-2010, 08:04 PM
Oh that is just too funny! Now, Lanie, you have to start your very own thread about what books do we think should be cited at the next motions hearing. Or mix and match, you list the books and we try to guess which motions they are being used for.

Thanks for a very good laugh, I needed one to help my blood pressure go down a wee bit:woohoo:

How about defenses strategy of SODDI: "Infinite Possibilities" ??

Dear Prudence
05-11-2010, 08:06 PM
Hi again campers. Am I alone in really really being intrigued by GA's absence today? Has he missed any hearings previously?

Certainly he may be working. Maybe his employer wouldn't allow him to take time off two consecutive days in a row. But if he had to choose only one, why on earth wouldn't he want to be there to show support during the DP hearing?

And in his absence suddenly KC makes eye contact/telegraphs messages to CA. Hmmmm. :waitasec:

Wouldn't it be interesting if GA became the first Anthony to "cross the aisle" and sit on Caylee's side? Of course even there he won't be safe from the looming bus, but it would make a statement.

George and Cindy both missed last week's hearing on the budget. That really surprised me because it seems like they've been at every one prior. Yesterday when George was there Casey did mouth "Happy Mother's Day. I love you." to Cindy. So today's communication wasn't just because GA was absent.

I think George looked miserable yesterday at the hearing. You may be right about him "crossing the aisle" soon.

okiedokietoo
05-11-2010, 08:06 PM
respectfully snipped.

The book is by an author named Albert Camus and titled The Stranger.

I find it very interesting how Mr. Camus' book relates to this case.

Albert Camus "The Stranger"
Main point in the book: facing the possibility of death does have an effect on one's perception of life

http://www.wftv.com/video/23516985/index.html

Video 2
20:13
AL
If I may draw a literary analogy, your honor wouldn't mind. This is very much like, Camus' "The Stranger" . Perhaps you had to read that in college I know I did. and In that book, a man doesn't act right after the death of
his mother and gets punished and convicted of a homicide that he had nothing to do with because his behavior was considered socially deviant.
And that is what this prosecution rests on, on actions that Miss Anthony didn't take not actions that she did.

Albert Camus believed in the philosophy known as Absurdism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

Absurdism is a philosophy stating that the efforts of humanity
to find inherent meaning in the universe will ultimately fail
(and hence are absurd), because no such meaning exists, at least
in relation to the individual.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/absurdism
Absurdism (noun)

a philosophy based on the belief that the universe is irrational and meaningless and that the search for order brings the individual into conflict with the universe

MissJames
05-11-2010, 08:06 PM
This drove me battywonkers at first today...and I don't have far to go...but the more I have thought about it the more I realize...let's get as much of this heard now as possible...more time now...less time in the appeal process...

Just like allowing the Ms. Rapaport etc...Like HHJP said..."Mr. Ashton, I am just giving them some latitude right now..." almost with a wink and don't worry it will be okay (though he didn't say it)

My brain is fuzzy,but didn't AH tell LE about CA getting ticked when she saw the pics for the No Clothes party?KC was supposed to be working,IIRC,and Cindy caught her.
This wasn't about a young ,single mom who had her parents babysit so she could go have a social life.This was about about a liar and a schemer.She told her parents she was working,then went out partying and socializing,instead.Some of those times she told her parents she was taking Caylee to stay at the nanny's overnight ,while she worked.
What did she really do with Caylee? There was no nanny,so what KC did with Caylee is important.
The before pics are not about showing bad character,they are about "What were you doing with Caylee???"
ETA: I have always believed that Caylee was starting to talk more.KC couldn't get away with her little ploy for much longer,because Caylee could tell Cindy what they were REALLY doing.

denjet
05-11-2010, 08:07 PM
BBM

Yes, and when the State does send the list of aggravating circumstances, be prepared for the defense to file motions asking the court to make the state explain why they feel these aggravating circumstances apply. JA stated in court today both sides need to do their job, and apparently the defense disagrees. All above MOO.

I tend to agree, it really sounds like the start of a lot more defense motions whining about not having the specifics they want ... :boohoo:

legalmania
05-11-2010, 08:07 PM
Thank you!
I have no legal degrees or any other degrees for that matter but I am not having any difficulty following this case or understanding "What is going on". I feel as though I am being talked down to and I resent it.

I do have a law degree and worked for the state both prosecution and defense, but I'm always learning, the laws are constantly being amended and new cases are added daily. Every state is different, nobody knows it all, but you don't have to be a genius to read and understand what is going on in a case.

whiteangora
05-11-2010, 08:08 PM
BBM

Yes, and when the State does send the list of aggravating circumstances, be prepared for the defense to file motions asking the court to make the state explain why they feel these aggravating circumstances apply. JA stated in court today both sides need to do their job, and apparently the defense disagrees. All above MOO.

Do you or anyone have any idea as to how the court will respond to this motion? It doesn't seem right that the State should have to for warn the defense with their every upcoming move and strategy.

lauriej
05-11-2010, 08:09 PM
I think GA is still in a fragile state and maybe he isn't ready to handle hearing about his daughter possibly getting the DP.

..he's had that to handle since april '09, maybe he had a head's up that his "attempted" suicide ( as well as the "attempted" suicide of his alleged mistress ) was going to be brought up today ?

JSR
05-11-2010, 08:12 PM
I might suggest "Crime and Punishment."

Love it.

One of my favorites!

Lanie
05-11-2010, 08:16 PM
LeLe, I really really wish you would stop talking about AL, KC and vibrators in the same sentences. Just cause you got stuck with the imagery in your head didn't mean you had to scar the rest of us poor souls!

Im gonna vomit. I can taste it. My mouth is all watery and gross. Ugh

It's like when you have a stupid song stuck in your head, so you go around singing it so everyone else will have it stuck in their head, too. Misery loves company, lol.

But to stay on topic, it was a head shaker for me why in the world sex toys and male strippers would be brought into this case, along with the defense referring to the 'blue dress' photos as (paraphrasing) 'party drunk bisexual dance' photos. With all the attorneys on the defense team, you would think someone would understand the terms 'damage control' and 'minimize'...
All above, MOO, of course.

mitzi
05-11-2010, 08:20 PM
Exactly - it shows her priorities and lack of responsibility, especially considering she wasn't working and was stealing and foisting Caylee on other family members so she could do what she wanted. And that does make her a bad mom. She was a ghastly, horrible mom.

And to add, even when KC was with Caylee, she wasn't really "with" her, since KC texted, phoned and IM'd practically 24/7.

LeLe1953
05-11-2010, 08:23 PM
LeLe, I really really wish you would stop talking about AL, KC and vibrators in the same sentences. Just cause you got stuck with the imagery in your head didn't mean you had to scar the rest of us poor souls!

Im gonna vomit. I can taste it. My mouth is all watery and gross. Ugh

I just had to wonder why on earth AL was so stuck on the sex toy thing today..so freaking strange.

ynotdivein
05-11-2010, 08:23 PM
George and Cindy both missed last week's hearing on the budget. That really surprised me because it seems like they've been at every one prior. Yesterday when George was there Casey did mouth "Happy Mother's Day. I love you." to Cindy. So today's communication wasn't just because GA was absent.

Thanks for that info DP--don't want to be reading non-existent kitties into all this!


I think George looked miserable yesterday at the hearing. You may be right about him "crossing the aisle" soon.

Agreed; he looks worn. I can't see him crossing the aisle until after the marriage is over. I thought they would stick it out until after the trial but the abuse allegations may hasten things, particularly if they will be brought up in open court.

Lanie
05-11-2010, 08:23 PM
Oh that is just too funny! Now, Lanie, you have to start your very own thread about what books do we think should be cited at the next motions hearing. Or mix and match, you list the books and we try to guess which motions they are being used for.

Thanks for a very good laugh, I needed one to help my blood pressure go down a wee bit:woohoo:

Glad I could help, lol.

Well, I actually think a more effective reference for today would have been 'The life of David Gale', which I believe is a movie and not a book, but, "To Kill a Mockingbird" was a book that was made into a movie, and my money is Baez was referring to the movie.
MOO

Lanie
05-11-2010, 08:26 PM
I tend to agree, it really sounds like the start of a lot more defense motions whining about not having the specifics they want ... :boohoo:

And then TES comes to mind. I've lost count of the motions on that one.

Lanie
05-11-2010, 08:30 PM
Do you or anyone have any idea as to how the court will respond to this motion? It doesn't seem right that the State should have to for warn the defense with their every upcoming move and strategy.

IMO, which I know don't count cause I ain't no attorney :cool:, if the defense does indeed file my predicted motion, I believe it will fall under 'work product' and be denied.

strawberry
05-11-2010, 08:36 PM
Oh my. I'm reading the article by Paraport that I linked back there <<<<<.

Wonder if this shows us a facet of the defense's strategy. Hmm.

I haven't even gotten through the first page and I'm thinking isn't this reverse discrimination? Britain has partially decriminalized infanticide by mothers, acknowledging that it's biology gone awry? Now THAT sounds sexist! The changes go back to 1922...what does that tell us? Come on!

snowshuze
05-11-2010, 08:38 PM
O/T Defense attorney for Cody Posey had me cryin' my eyes out. I agree there are excellent attorneys on BOTH sides of the isle.

legalmania
05-11-2010, 08:39 PM
Do you or anyone have any idea as to how the court will respond to this motion? It doesn't seem right that the State should have to for warn the defense with their every upcoming move and strategy.

Can you direct me as to what motion you are talking about? I haven't had time to catch up today.

mitzi
05-11-2010, 08:44 PM
To add further. Here is the mission statement for the Florida State Attorneys Office.

"To pursue vigorous and fair prosecution of criminal cases, with a commitment to serve as an advocate for the rights of all victims, and promote the safety and well-being of the public."

repeated:

The mission of our office is threefold:
1. To pursue vigorous and fair prosecution of criminal cases.
2. To advocate for the rights of all victims.
3. To promote the safety and well-being of the public.

The vision of the State Attorneys Office for Florida.

Vision

"To excel and be acknowledged as a leader in providing quality prosecution, exceptional service to victims, and for our work in partnership with the community in providing early intervention and preventive education programs for juveniles, consistent with the safety and well-being of the public."

http://sa18.state.fl.us/mission/mvv.htm

In short...yes the SA's office is an advocate for the victim.

Red mine.

And that's a good thing because Caylee's own immediate family sure isn't advocating for her. :furious:

cecybeans
05-11-2010, 08:46 PM
My question is - and it may have been asked already, haven't read the whole thread - WHO PAID TO FLY HER HERE?

If it was the Taxpayers, we got ripped off. :furious:

I have a feeling that this may have been from Ms. Lyon's budget for her DP clinic; I seriously doubt the defense is making any expenditures until the actual budget has been finalized.

However, that being said, I find it a bit ridiculous that Ms. Lyon would bother to have an expert witness fly in for an argument she could have presented herself simply citing Ms. Rapaport's published papers. It gave the impression she is rather a spendthrift and that is not something anyone connected with the defense needs to be displaying at the moment.

Unfortunately, even if Ms. Rapaport's credentials are stellar, her argument was weak and her presence on the stand was rather timid and unimpressive. She is a law professor, not a social scientist, so her assumptions about cause and effect didn't even address other important social variables that a serious study would encompass. Her sample size was extremely small, by her own admission, which also allowed for major erroneous interpretations of data. (An abstract from a paper on the subject indicates that her tiny sample of females are also disproportionately likely to have killed family members, although she does not hazard a guess as to why. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1411240)\

Ms. Rapaport also admitted that her conclusions about the possibility that prosecutors chose the death penalty more often because of sexist reasons was not necessarily conclusive or especially scientific and that it did not necessarily reflect what this particular team may have done. The fact that AL did not follow up with any specific examples or evidence to support her claim that they did, further weakened an already flailing argument, imo.

I understand Ashton's ire that this witness was called at the last minute. I think he should have noted that AL's excuse - which was a lack of organization brought about by a change in judges - was entirely the defense's doing and should not have further inconvenienced the state, as they should have anticipated this result and planned ahead. But both this expert witness and AL's argument proved weak enough that JA didn't have too much trouble dispatching either one, and I'm glad JP allowed it because, imo, it only put more egg on the faces of this defense team and nicely eliminated it as an issue during trial.

Aedrys
05-11-2010, 08:53 PM
I just had to wonder why on earth AL was so stuck on the sex toy thing today..so freaking strange.

I was wondering about that too. Are they going to claim she's innocent by reason of insanity by dildo or something? Good lord, if that's the case, there's a lot of woman who'll start claiming that for everything, lol.

cecybeans
05-11-2010, 08:53 PM
My brain is fuzzy,but didn't AH tell LE about CA getting ticked when she saw the pics for the No Clothes party?KC was supposed to be working,IIRC,and Cindy caught her.
This wasn't about a young ,single mom who had her parents babysit so she could go have a social life.This was about about a liar and a schemer.She told her parents she was working,then went out partying and socializing,instead.Some of those times she told her parents she was taking Caylee to stay at the nanny's overnight ,while she worked.
What did she really do with Caylee? There was no nanny,so what KC did with Caylee is important.
The before pics are not about showing bad character,they are about "What were you doing with Caylee???"
ETA: I have always believed that Caylee was starting to talk more.KC couldn't get away with her little ploy for much longer,because Caylee could tell Cindy what they were REALLY doing.

Absolutely. And I'm sure if the state saw pictures of KC going to church socials and laughing with friends during that month looking as carefree as she did in the ones in question, they would be bringing them up as well.

That girl didn't look like she was concerned in the least about finding a "missing" toddler. It wouldn't matter if she was wearing a wimple and a habit.

Aedrys
05-11-2010, 09:00 PM
I thought they were just late? The hearing I went to regarding the budget, they were present.

Whether they were late or not there, they obviously didn't care about the state paying for their daughter. Cindy (or was it Conway) said it was just "administrative" stuff. Yeah, because how much money your daughter is going to get to mooch, I mean spend from the state isn't important. It's not their money, so they don't need to know the details. Typical A's. I can see where Casey gets it from.

All I'm saying is, if that were my daughter, I'd want to damn well know the money details, how many experts, etc. I'd want to do know she's getting the best defense possible. I guess that's just not important to the A's. Makes me SO MAD.

The selfishness in this case is just astounding. I don't feel sorry for any of them. They got here because of who and what they are, every single one of them. I will shed no tear and feel no sympathy for any of the A's but Caylee. Sadly, I don't even like thinking of her as part of that family, especially since they sure don't act like she ever was.

logicalgirl
05-11-2010, 09:02 PM
Aren't you from Canada, where the legal process may be slightly different than in the USA?


Slightly??? LOL - understatement of the month here!

whiteangora
05-11-2010, 09:04 PM
Can you direct me as to what motion you are talking about? I haven't had time to catch up today.

It hasn't been filed yet....I was projecting.
Lanie posted that the defense probably won't be satisfied with just a list of aggravating factors from the State and that they most likely will want reasons, and explanations, thus the projected motion(s).
Sorry for the confusion

TakeNote
05-11-2010, 09:14 PM
wow....i should have put dinner in the crock pot today....this thread was a good read..thank you all for your thoughts and insight into this case

:)

beach
05-11-2010, 09:14 PM
Can you direct me as to what motion you are talking about? I haven't had time to catch up today.

It wasn't a 'motion' per se, if I am thinking about the same thing -

Judge Perry granted the defense motion that the SA submit exactly which aggravating factors they planned on proving at trial to support seeking the DP. 4 were obvious, 2 others the SA had not decided on. They will have to submit those to the defense. No biggie really, however a little bittersweet since it will be tipping their hand, but better because there will certainly be no appellate issue.


ETA: I see Themis explained it much better while I was typing my response. :)

TrY
05-11-2010, 09:15 PM
I watched the WFTV raw video of today's DP hearing earlier today (and no, I don't have the time today, unfortunately, to go through 55 pages of this thread) so I've just glanced as some of the pages here and there.

I think Casey was crying for herself, not her daughter. She didn't really have any tears that I could see (I watch the raw video on my computer, I am not able to watch the proceedings on TV unless it's on HLN or there's a recap on JVM like today) so Casey's crying reminded me of the last time she did this in court. It's when Casey comes off looking bad, then it's time for the waterworks or the dabbing and looking at your fingers bit.

I figure that it didn't take too long for the SA JA to get under Casey's skin either. She had the pursed lips and clenched jaw look that she had yesterday.

If anyone attended the hearing today in person, what was JB doing typing away at on a keyboard on the defense table? Anyone know?

denjet
05-11-2010, 09:16 PM
Thanks for that info DP--don't want to be reading non-existent kitties into all this!



Agreed; he looks worn. I can't see him crossing the aisle until after the marriage is over. I thought they would stick it out until after the trial but the abuse allegations may hasten things, particularly if they will be brought up in open court.

Is it possible that this business of the defense trying to get a copy of George's GJ testimony is causing him some grief? combined with the new judge and the defense losing more motions ? .... Just seems strange that Conway wasn't there either ... some speculated that the SA may have called him as a witness at today's hearing ... but I really can't fathom why or for what they would need him ... any thoughts?

lauriej
05-11-2010, 09:16 PM
..i don't understand the "expert" that AK brought today. yes, she has written an article (or aticles) on gender-bias/death penalty.

..( and went to harvard, blah, blah....ummm.ok...."expert" you are. )

..however-------she was here TO testify in THIS case-------and admitted she knows very little about it------has read "a couple" of media stories (!?)

..who CARES how her study relates to the darlie routier case???

..you would think, that she would have done some CASEY ANTHONY research prior to testifying IN the casey anthony case...so that she could apply her "white woman/mothers that kill their kids are gender-biased" TODAY in court, to THIS case.

..instead, she came across as muttering all over the place ( umm..sex toys? ).

..if this is a preview of the type of "experts" that the defense will be presenting,good grief.

..( and, of all the HUNDREDS of media stories that have been written------which "couple of them" did she read ? )

Dear Prudence
05-11-2010, 09:16 PM
I thought they were just late? The hearing I went to regarding the budget, they were present.

I could be mistaken, sorry if so! I just thought I remember them not being there and Brad being asked on InSession about it and he replied something like well, it was just an administrative hearing.

I did notice they were 30 minutes late yesterday and Cindy was about 15 late today.

Numbers
05-11-2010, 09:19 PM
I watched the WFTV raw video of today's DP hearing earlier today (and no, I don't have the time today, unfortunately, to go through 55 pages of this thread) so I've just glanced as some of the pages here and there.

I think Casey was crying for herself, not her daughter. She didn't really have any tears that I could see (I watch the raw video on my computer, I am not able to watch the proceedings on TV unless it's on HLN or there's a recap on JVM like today) so Casey's crying reminded me of the last time she did this in court. It's when Casey comes off looking bad, then it's time for the waterworks or the dabbing and looking at your fingers bit.

I figure that it didn't take too long for the SA JA to get under Casey's skin either. She had the pursed lips and clenched jaw look that she had yesterday.

If anyone attended the hearing today in person, what was JB doing typing away at on a keyboard on the defense table? Anyone know?


Canceling his May, 2011 reservations at the Miami Hilton?

MissJames
05-11-2010, 09:19 PM
Is it possible that this business of the defense trying to get a copy of George's GJ testimony is causing him some grief? combined with the new judge and the defense losing more motions ? .... Just seems strange that Conway wasn't there either ... some speculated that the SA may have called him as a witness at today's hearing ... but I really can't fathom why or for what they would need him ... any thoughts?
George had on a uniform shirt at yesterday's hearing.If he has a new job he probably has to work.

logicalgirl
05-11-2010, 09:27 PM
I just had to wonder why on earth AL was so stuck on the sex toy thing today..so freaking strange.

LOL Don't make me explain it to you.....

Angel4u2Whisper2
05-11-2010, 09:29 PM
:waitasec: Someone mentioned a sex toy? :iamashamed0005: Why?!

Is there some missing pictures we don't know about, how and why did that come about? Anyone? Buller!

Thanks in advance!

cecybeans
05-11-2010, 09:38 PM
:waitasec: Someone mentioned a sex toy? :iamashamed0005: Why?!

Is there some missing pictures we don't know about, how and why did that come about? Anyone? Buller!

Thanks in advance!

It was just a reference AL made to inappropriate and sexist interest in a female's sexual life or interests as they would relate to a crime. It is something that occurs frequently and is often absurd.

A dear friend of mine was asked horrific personal questions about her sex life during a situation in which she was suing two doctors for malpractice. She was dying of cancer, had never committed a crime, but they were trying to impeach her testimony by somehow finding how often she had sex with her husband relevant. It's a sleazy, sexist but well-known tactic that has no place in the system.

However, I cannot imagine why Ms. Lyon was so personally struck by the specific example that she used it more than once in her argument. And please don't ask me to. The visual is bad enough without further extrapolation.

logicalgirl
05-11-2010, 09:45 PM
However, I cannot imagine why Ms. Lyon was so personally struck by the specific example that she used it more than once in her argument. And please don't ask me to. The visual is bad enough without further extrapolation.

Snipped with thanks.

LOL Cecybeans - see above. You said what I didn't want to say and yes you brought the technicolor visuals with you, thanks so much!!!

butwhatif?
05-11-2010, 09:48 PM
I love that JP is really getting the ball rolling again, putting in deadlines, clarifying everything, and taking no nonsense.

Defence was woeful as usual, but I really expected more from them for this hearing. Why are they always so ill-prepared? When will they get it? There's a whole team of them FGS!

And shock- horror- I'm finally warming up to JA. He did a fabulous job. (never thought I'd say that!)

I think I've figured out the def strategy.I don't think they are going with a SODDI def. Their 'expert witness' is testifying about mothers who kill.
She also stated that white middle class women are under more scrutiny by media and public when accused of killing their child/ren.

They want the jury to be mixed race, (fits well with ICA's previous beaus) and judging by JB's post-hearing interview, he wants mothers on the jury.

Mothers of mixed race who aren't scrutinized as much, who therefore won't scrutinize ICA so much???

I don't think they are going for the pollyanna look- I think by the time trial comes round she will look even more gaunt and 'rough' around the edges.
(she's borderline anorexic now, and pale as heck- did they put some talc on her face and lips? And the dark eyes!)

They want to show the perp as someone who is 'falling apart' physically and emotionally which they think will show a jury that she is a broken woman. Which is another reason they want the pics thrown out. She looks too 'white middle class' in those pics. They want the jury to only see a broken, poor (she can't afford to pay for her on defense now remember), young woman who was a single mom with an overbearing mother.

Explains why they keep playing the race card, the gender card, and the white mothers who kill their children are a minority card.

If this post comes across as racist and sexist, dont blame me (that's not MY mindset)- it's the defense throwing it all out there.

If it's true that the county they are requesting is full of minorities- they are going to play on that to the best of their ability. Her mother hated hispanics- ICA loved them. That will play on their unconscious emotions, favourably IMO.

ALL JMO, and subject to change.

ZsaZsa
05-11-2010, 10:02 PM
I love that JP is really getting the ball rolling again, putting in deadlines, clarifying everything, and taking no nonsense.

Defence was woeful as usual, but I really expected more from them for this hearing. Why are they always so ill-prepared? When will they get it? There's a whole team of them FGS!

And shock- horror- I'm finally warming up to JA. He did a fabulous job. (never thought I'd say that!)

I think I've figured out the def strategy.I don't think they are going with a SODDI def. Their 'expert witness' is testifying about mothers who kill.
She also stated that white middle class women are under more scrutiny by media and public when accused of killing their child/ren.

They want the jury to be mixed race, (fits well with ICA's previous beaus) and judging by JB's post-hearing interview, he wants mothers on the jury.

Mothers of mixed race who aren't scrutinized as much, who therefore won't scrutinize ICA so much???

I don't think they are going for the pollyanna look- I think by the time trial comes round she will look even more gaunt and 'rough' around the edges.
(she's borderline anorexic now, and pale as heck- did they put some talc on her face and lips? And the dark eyes!)

They want to show the perp as someone who is 'falling apart' physically and emotionally which they think will show a jury that she is a broken woman. Which is another reason they want the pics thrown out. She looks too 'white middle class' in those pics. They want the jury to only see a broken, poor (she can't afford to pay for her on defense now remember), young woman who was a single mom with an overbearing mother.

Explains why they keep playing the race card, the gender card, and the white mothers who kill their children are a minority card.

If this post comes across as racist and sexist, dont blame me (that's not MY mindset)- it's the defense throwing it all out there.

If it's true that the county they are requesting is full of minorities- they are going to play on that to the best of their ability. Her mother hated hispanics- ICA loved them. That will play on their unconscious emotions, favourably IMO.

ALL JMO, and subject to change.

It's all about image. We are supposed to believe she has had an epiphany, and is really a grieving mother greeting her own bereaved mother with a (faux) Happy Mother's Day....I love you.....
After refusing to acknowledge her parents for over a year it is hard to give that little scene any credibility.

ZsaZsa
05-11-2010, 10:05 PM
BBM

I was there. He had a keyboard attached to his iPad. He had open a word program, looked like "notepad" of sorts. I don't have an iPad so I'm not familiar, but it was a word-processing program meant to look like notebook paper. He'd type something, KC would look at it, and nod. At one point he typed something, KC read it, and then had to cover her giggles. Apparently while AL took the defense by the reigns today, JB used his time wisely to make one lousy objection and flirt electronically with "his girl". JMO.

I wish I had some sort of zoom lens so I could have read what he was saying, it was driving me nuts. I also want one of those "super sonic" hearing devices so I can hear the sidebar. ;) hehe.

We will start a Zoom Lens fund for you. I bet it was something he would NOT want seen by the public! :dance: Can't you get closer next time?

Dear Prudence
05-11-2010, 10:13 PM
I could be confusing hearing as well. I attended today's hearing and the one on the 6th, and GA and CA were there on the 6th, and Cindy alone was there today.

No worries, it's not a big deal. But, it was driving me crazy so I had to go back and look.The budget hearing was last week on Thursday May 6th and neither George nor Cindy attended. It was discussed all throughout the thread but here is one example Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.05.06 Budget Hearing


BTW, I love your first-hand descriptions of the hearings and all the players. You have a great way with words and making me feel the emotions of actually being there. So thank you! :blowkiss:

butwhatif?
05-11-2010, 10:24 PM
It's all about image. We are supposed to believe she has had an epiphany, and is really a grieving mother greeting her own bereaved mother with a (faux) Happy Mother's Day....I love you.....
After refusing to acknowledge her parents for over a year it is hard to give that little scene any credibility.

It's not about what we are expected to believe- that's whole reason for asking for change of venue. We know what and who she really is, but they are looking for jurors who have never seen her as we have.

They want the pics thrown out so that the jurors don't see the white middle class girl who had it all and threw it away, along with her daughter.

Also, regarding change of venue, how funny is it that JB stated that when he was in a specific county only one potential juror recognized HIM.
LOL- He knows he's made a right fool of himself to the people who have followed the case. He wants to find jurors who haven't seen how woefully inept he is. HILARIOUS!

butwhatif?
05-11-2010, 10:30 PM
If anyone attended the hearing today in person, what was JB doing typing away at on a keyboard on the defense table? Anyone know?

~Respectfully snipped by me~

I noticed that too. It looked like he was typing whatever was on the sheet of paper in front of ICA. But doing it in bits and pieces so as not to be too obvious.

Note to JB and Co: we are ALWAYS watching.

A letter from ICA to CA/GA maybe?

wantsjustice
05-11-2010, 10:48 PM
I just had to wonder why on earth AL was so stuck on the sex toy thing today..so freaking strange.

My guess.. Its because it has to do with "photos" we have not yet seen..
Must be some pics with sex toys. imo

Also, the Professor testifying in court today for AL was a joke. She said she didn't know that much about the case, only read one or two things.. She sure knew about the blue dress, and even stated something along the lines of.. A mother going out one time to bar doesn't make her a bad mother etc...So she knew about fusion, she knew about the blue dress, she knew about CAsey being sexual, and or having sexual photos taken. She changed her opinion according to how she thought it would help the story for the defendant.She surely knew more about the case then what she said on that stand today, that's for sure!

I was waiting for her to say: Muffin shouldn't be held accountable just because she was partying in a short blue dress and boots that she bought with her mothers credit card from JC Penny's while her daughter was missing.

Bobbisangel
05-11-2010, 10:52 PM
I tend to agree, it really sounds like the start of a lot more defense motions whining about not having the specifics they want ... :boohoo:


Baez said that there are 11 more death penalty motions and that he will be filing more motions this week that can be seen right away. Why would there be 11 more death penalty motions? What more could they want to know or to do or not to do? The judge has already said it is not going to be taken off the table. I hope that in time the judge gets sick of the defense and their filing motions every time they turn around and most of them are just bs.

wantsjustice
05-11-2010, 10:57 PM
I think GA is still in a fragile state and maybe he isn't ready to handle hearing about his daughter possibly getting the DP.

I think Casey is playing GA now.. Using CA to get to GA now. Talking to her but ignoring her dad, and I don't think he can handle that, I think this is what this family does, plays one another, and someone always gets hurt. Now it GA's turn.
CA doesn't care because she is getting the positive attention and feed back from Casey at the moment, but when Casey stops giving Cindy the attention, and then gives it to GA Cindy will be hurt and upset etc.. I think this is what Casey has always done, and they have let it become almost a competition between them..
Neither parent caring what she is doing to the other one, as long as they are getting the attention and false love at the moment.
Poor Caylee~

RainyGirl
05-11-2010, 10:59 PM
Most everyone on this board offers something knowledgeable, so please stop insulting the audience.

It isn't appreciated nor is it necessary to continually put others down.

Many of us have vast legal and criminal education and experience, others have medical backgrounds, forensics and other forms of Scientific expertise, and for those who do not, they offer the most valued and treasured gift of pure logic coming from caring hearts.

This really isn't our first rodeo.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::c lap:

Thank you!
~From the PROUD WIFE of a State Prosecutor who CHOOSES to work for
1/20th the income as most of the defense lawyers he faces in the courtroom. He believes in advocating for the victim......bottom line! I myself happen to be a teacher (M.Ed.) but have been privy to enough trials to know a thing or two about those "rodeos" as well. :) IMO, Websleuthers are among the most intelligent, analytical, logical and experienced persons I have ever had the pleasure of "knowing". Integrity matters.

Bobbisangel
05-11-2010, 11:03 PM
It hasn't been filed yet....I was projecting.
Lanie posted that the defense probably won't be satisfied with just a list of aggravating factors from the State and that they most likely will want reasons, and explanations, thus the projected motion(s).
Sorry for the confusion


I really hope that the judge won't go along with the Pros having to tell reasons and explanations. All they need to know is which aggravating factor is going to be used. Don't they have sense enough to know that one will be...a child under 12 yrs.

Vegas Bride
05-11-2010, 11:15 PM
BBM. I see what you're saying there and it makes perfect sense.

I was telling some other attendees that the other night I had a dream (here in my last couple months of pregnancy I've been having some crazily vivid dreams) where I got to court early and KC was there early, and I tapped her on the back to pass her some powder and some blush. She is definitely looking gaunt.

At first, I thought all the reports on her weight were getting to her and maybe she really was bulimic..today I took note that her wrists are very tiny. I'm the same height as KC, and am not big by any means, but definitely have some meat on my arms in comparison to her. She looked, fragile. We all know they have showers in the jail, as she's come to court in the past with washed hair that was down and looked pretty. Perhaps your theory is correct and this is why her hair always looks so greasy. Going for the pity-party. I don't think it's going to work in a juror's opinion, because the pictures will show what was happening at the time of Caylee's demise. What she's done since being in jail is not the same as what she did prior, iMO.

Just wanted to make a comment about her hair and showers.
Since I work at a jail I have learned that inmates, especially female inmates don't always wait to wash their hair when they can take a shower. Showers are not always available to them every day. What they begin to do is wash their hair in the toilet. I have seen it done with my own eyes many times.

If she is washing her hair in the toilet I have to admit, it gives me just a little smile.

VB

beach
05-11-2010, 11:38 PM
Yes, I think it's all become very real to her - the near and imminent danger she is facing.

When is the next hearing or can someone tell me where the hearing list is posted?

I've been posting all hearing dates/times on the Caylee Calendar. Resource forum.

njustice
05-11-2010, 11:51 PM
It's sad, isn't it? KC's defense knows she's going down, so as a last resort, they keep gut punching the prosecution. The allegations keep getting more and more ridiculous. You know your client is going to hell in a hand-basket when the only possible theory you can throw out there is an insane conspiracy theory about how the entire OCSO is mass-conspiring to bankrupt and kill an innocent young woman just for the fun of it - oh wait, because she's a woman. Wonder how all of the female LE officers involved feel about that.

LinasK
05-11-2010, 11:58 PM
I might suggest "Crime and Punishment."
Nah, :slap: that'd require Casey to have a conscience!:croc:

pamandabear
05-12-2010, 12:20 AM
"Miss Anthony's child" seems correct and normal. The prosecution sometimes also say "the child", I guess meaning "the child victim" or "the child in question/the child in this case" as the defense also sometimes do. I can understand when both sides use this term, but it's true it would be nice to hear her first name used more in the court room. Maybe they sometimes get confused by the similar names Caylee/Casey and have trouble retrieving the name when they're speaking so use these other terms?

I agree it would be nice to hear more, wait till trial though... imo, I hope they have a huge picture of Caylee up every day so all can be reminded of who and what this is about..:angel: interesting theory though:)

butwhatif?
05-12-2010, 12:23 AM
I might suggest "Crime and Punishment."

ITA! My all-time favourite book. I've read hundreds, maybe a thousand books, but this one has stuck with me always. A truely powerful book that would go way over ICA's head, and her councel's, since it's about conscience.
:angel:

ETA: LOL- LinasK beat me to it!

trixi491
05-12-2010, 12:37 AM
Does anyone know where I can find footage that took place during the 10 minute recess where CA and KC exchanged words?

spqr
05-12-2010, 12:42 AM
Amen. I have 2 Bachelor's Degrees, a Law Degree, and a Master's Degree. I come here to learn about specific cases as a matter of personal interest, and share opinions, but I certainly don't come here to be taught. Furthermore, because I haven't been nor seek to be "vetted" by Tricia, I don't offer any opinions or statements as an expert or imply that I know any more than anyone else on WS. I respect every single poster's opinion, and don't think anyone on here needs to be lectured or talked down to.

BBM: But no mention of reading newspaper articles...so I guess you don't qualify as an expert...;) lol