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ChickenPants
05-12-2010, 04:46 PM
Discussions on the ongoing investigation (POI named but no suspects named), evidence known or unknown, as there has been no trial or conviction yet.

ChickenPants
05-12-2010, 04:48 PM
I would like to discuss why you feel LE ruled out the RSO's so quickly, why there is no information available as to whether Somer was sexually molested, the POI having been originally jailed on the thread of child pornography and having lived in the vicinity of Somer's route home from school. All responses welcome.

Noway
05-12-2010, 10:43 PM
Chickenpants, I'm not sure where you are going with this. :waitasec:

I think they have moved beyond person of interest. They have arrested and charged Jarred Harrell. I think legally is now their prime suspect.

CCSO Arrest Report (http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/032610harrelldoc.pdf)

Indictment PDF (http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/040110_harrellindictment.pdf)


However, I don't know why they ruled out registered sexual offenders so quickly when the charges against Jarred Harrell include the sexual battery of Somer.

He is charged with 794.011 (2)(a) (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0794/SEC011.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0794-%3ESection%20011#0794.011)

(2)(a) A person 18 years of age or older who commits sexual battery upon, or in an attempt to commit sexual battery injures the sexual organs of, a person less than 12 years of age commits a capital felony, punishable as provided in ss. 775.082 (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0775/Sec082.HTM) and 921.141. (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0921/Sec141.HTM)

And from that same site:

"Sexual battery" means oral, anal, or vaginal penetration by, or union with, the sexual organ of another or the anal or vaginal penetration of another by any other object; however, sexual battery does not include an act done for a bona fide medical purpose.


I would say based on the charges, Somer was sexually molested.

According to the Arrest Report I posted above, he is also charged with FSS 800.04 (5)g (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0800/SEC04.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0800-%3ESection%2004#0800.04)

There is no item "g" on this page. According to the Indictment PDF, it is FSS 800.04 (5)(b) (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0800/SEC04.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0800-%3ESection%2004#0800.04):

(5) LEWD OR LASCIVIOUS MOLESTATION.--

(b) An offender 18 years of age or older who commits lewd or lascivious molestation against a victim less than 12 years of age commits a life felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0775/Sec082.HTM)(3)(a)4.

dar107
05-13-2010, 01:19 AM
Im confused, Chick have you been following the case the last few months? JH was charged and is awaiting trial, he is no longer a POI he is the accused, included in documents pertaining to his arrest are the charges for molestation of a minor.

As far as the RSO's IIRC there were rooted out one by one and must have given sufficient assurance to LE that they could not have one this to Somer. How they checked out alibis etc. so quickly I am not sure, maybe because they all have their DNA on file LE could scan for matches very quickly.

human
05-13-2010, 08:39 PM
I don't understand the DNA thing. They eliminated the construction workers immediately. The Corpus guy took until January, I believe according to 20/20. That made no sense.

Then it appeared that it took several weeks for the JH DNA. I simply do not understand it.

So I am wondering, if rather, they found something of Somer's in the JH house.

But that doesn't make sense either as it was searched by the FBI back in October, and there were months when the house could have been cleaned.

None of it makes sense to me.

ChickenPants
05-13-2010, 09:07 PM
Chickenpants, I'm not sure where you are going with this. :waitasec:

I think they have moved beyond person of interest. They have arrested and charged Jarred Harrell. I think legally is now their prime suspect.

CCSO Arrest Report (http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/032610harrelldoc.pdf)

Indictment PDF (http://download.gannett.edgesuite.net/wtlv/docs/040110_harrellindictment.pdf)


However, I don't know why they ruled out registered sexual offenders so quickly when the charges against Jarred Harrell include the sexual battery of Somer.

He is charged with 794.011 (2)(a) (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0794/SEC011.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0794-%3ESection%20011#0794.011)



And from that same site:




I would say based on the charges, Somer was sexually molested.

According to the Arrest Report I posted above, he is also charged with FSS 800.04 (5)g (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0800/SEC04.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0800-%3ESection%2004#0800.04)

There is no item "g" on this page. According to the Indictment PDF, it is FSS 800.04 (5)(b) (http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0800/SEC04.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0800-%3ESection%2004#0800.04):



Hi, I am not really going anywhere with anything...I read along several comments on the now-closed threads and there was still discussion about the sexual molestation. So he has been charged with sexual battery. I get that.

I still don't get why they ruled out the RSO's so rapidly, and would not reveal if she was molested or not. Then once they had him on the porn, everything sped forward. They had to have known at the time of the autopsy that she had been brutalized in that way. Why they hid the information and still have not put it in those terms I don't understand.

So they arrested JH on the child porn charges and information unfolded...the 3 year old, etc. The only tie-in to Somer at that point, from my understanding, was that he was into child porn and lived in her neighborhood.

I have to surmise then that the "information" he gave them at some point connected to him to her molestation and murder. It would be interesting to know what information he gave and why, if he is one step away from being tried, that information is still not available. Enough has been said and done to prejudice his case already.

ChickenPants
05-13-2010, 09:14 PM
Im confused, Chick have you been following the case the last few months? JH was charged and is awaiting trial, he is no longer a POI he is the accused, included in documents pertaining to his arrest are the charges for molestation of a minor.

As far as the RSO's IIRC there were rooted out one by one and must have given sufficient assurance to LE that they could not have one this to Somer. How they checked out alibis etc. so quickly I am not sure, maybe because they all have their DNA on file LE could scan for matches very quickly.



Thanks for responding everyone. I have been following the case, just not on discussion board. Beseler has not said, to my knowledge that ALL SUSPECTS ARE RULED OUT. He has had opportunity to say this. Having one suspect in jail is good, but it does not preclude other possibilities until he is tried and convicted, no?

I don't get how they could check out all of the RSO's so quickly. JH was not a RSO - he stayed in the area - did they also check out suspected SO's? We learn now that the neighborhood is crawling with them and certainly some people must have suspected other people.

In the meantime, during this very long and frustrating investigation, LE did not seem to make a point of reminding the public that a sexual predator may still be on the loose. And now we know that at least ONE was. Everyone on here is happy that at least one pervert has been jailed and I join them in that.

It seems to me that they made a huge point of saying to the media that ALL RSO'S HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED...which makes a statement to the public that they are in a way ruling out a sex crime. Then the autopsy. Then nobody (including mother) given information. A lot of time elapsed before the computer porn drama unfolded. Things were tied up quickly after that. I guess the million dollar bond on a POI who was looked at for child porn justified itself after the other evidence was accumulated.

I am only discussing the investigation and some of the more curious elements in it, which seem strange, just in my opinion.

ChickenPants
05-13-2010, 09:25 PM
I don't understand the DNA thing. They eliminated the construction workers immediately. The Corpus guy took until January, I believe according to 20/20. That made no sense.

Then it appeared that it took several weeks for the JH DNA. I simply do not understand it.

So I am wondering, if rather, they found something of Somer's in the JH house.

But that doesn't make sense either as it was searched by the FBI back in October, and there were months when the house could have been cleaned.

None of it makes sense to me.

I am curious about the DNA as well. I had not stopped to think that LE would automatically put on file all DNA of RSO's. In any event, there was such a deal made when the investigation was lagging about how long it took to process DNA. So how could they have processed all the DNA on every RSO so quickly? Again, I was initially dumbfounded that they could search, detect and rule out every registered sex offender - and even make a point of saying that "everyone cooperated". Now we hear that JH cooperated when he was searched, too. Yet the investigation lagged and lagged, and if anyone wants to go back and read WS from the beginning, you'll see how many theories were put out there EXCEPT sex offenders and why? Because LE said at the beginning they had all been cleared.

Now that we know the cause of death, but LE simply never came forth, sadly or sympathetically and ever said Somer was sexually violated - even when Beseler sat in that church with those parents during education about sexual predators. Here was his chance to say: Listen up, people! You don't want to have what happend to Somer touch your child!

We learn about the molestation connection through legal charges against JH - those that have been released by the benevolent State's Attorney's office to the public.

Everyone is left to speculate on what happened to this poor child. How many of us wonder how long she suffered? All of those people who have been at the fundraisers and vigils - are they satisfied knowing she was suffocated? I don't think so. It is normal to to wonder when you care and have invested so much of your heart into this. We get the tantalizing information that Besler doesn't "think" she was in the house that long? What was the point of saying that? I personally get tied up in knots wondering about this child's last moments of life. Perhaps they have told her parents by now, I hope so - because this is all part of closure.

I just think it is bizarre. I hope I do not offend anyone by my remarks. I think the investigation has been sloppy and unprofessional.

ChickenPants
05-13-2010, 09:38 PM
I just want to add here that I am not trying to trash LE or Sheriff Beseler. They have a man in jail who has done heinous things. I am outraged at how he was able to slip out of town and was given plenty of time to cover up the crime, even after he was visited by LE. I am upset that no neighbors who now state they found him creepy alerted LE, or perhaps they did and were ignored. We may never know.

I am angry that after Somer died, he had plenty of time to commit more crimes against children. I still wonder if any of those photos found were taken after she died. I still wonder why he hung around after her death.

I am frustrated by the dangle and snatch public information given by LE. Some things they have said have not panned out or do not make sense. That infers they think people are stupid enough not to notice. Now I have to accept that they are an agency like other businesses staffed by human beings who make mistakes. It's the possible deliberate mistakes that worry me. The carefully-guarded information leaked out - "no comment" and then "just a little comment".

To a lot of people who are satisfied that JH is the killer and will get what is coming to him, this is all behind us. But I do not think that Somer will ever have "justice" unless every single bit of the real truth is known. She was real, she lived a short life, she was brutally killed and she deserves the respect of the truth, not just to be a media headline or a kick in the butt for parents everywhere. I want to know what happened to her, when, where and why. I don't think "no comment" is appropriate any more, especially if they are sure they have the right man.

Kimberlyd125
05-13-2010, 11:07 PM
IMO it would be crazy if LE gave us all that info until they HAVE to. What good would that do for Somer's case?

It will all come out through discovery and at the trial.

They are confident they have the right guy. They are confident enough to send this case to trial.

I would never describe CCSO as sloppy. We don't know what all they did and how they did it. And, we are not experts in investigating.

We don't know what all they have on this guy. And IMO them holding info close to the chest made JH feel comfy enough to relax and make mistakes. He thought he got away with it. He was moving on with his life. Then...bam...here come the charges.

I applaud CCSO. Job well done sirs!

As for JH, may he rot!

Sunshine77
05-14-2010, 02:33 AM
Hi, I am not really going anywhere with anything...I read along several comments on the now-closed threads and there was still discussion about the sexual molestation. So he has been charged with sexual battery. I get that.

I still don't get why they ruled out the RSO's so rapidly, and would not reveal if she was molested or not. Then once they had him on the porn, everything sped forward. They had to have known at the time of the autopsy that she had been brutalized in that way. Why they hid the information and still have not put it in those terms I don't understand.

So they arrested JH on the child porn charges and information unfolded...the 3 year old, etc. The only tie-in to Somer at that point, from my understanding, was that he was into child porn and lived in her neighborhood.

I have to surmise then that the "information" he gave them at some point connected to him to her molestation and murder. It would be interesting to know what information he gave and why, if he is one step away from being tried, that information is still not available. Enough has been said and done to prejudice his case already.

BBM. I believe they were looking at him as a murder suspect prior to the child porn charges. Per the 20/20 special, neighbors at the mother's home in Callahan reported LE doing survellience back in January. His bio father reported being asked for a DNA swab weeks before the arrest on the child porn. I'm sure there is much more that we don't know of yet, but I am confident that he was a suspect prior to the child porn arrest.

And I'm confused by your last statement that enough has been said and done to prejudice his case already....you make this statement while also criticizing LE for not releasing more information in several posts....I agree that not everything makes sense in this case yet, but I have also understood from day one the reasons why information was withheld. This is JMO, but I don't believe we as the public have any right to all the horrific details of Somer's death.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 09:46 AM
BBM. I believe they were looking at him as a murder suspect prior to the child porn charges. Per the 20/20 special, neighbors at the mother's home in Callahan reported LE doing survellience back in January. His bio father reported being asked for a DNA swab weeks before the arrest on the child porn. I'm sure there is much more that we don't know of yet, but I am confident that he was a suspect prior to the child porn arrest.

And I'm confused by your last statement that enough has been said and done to prejudice his case already....you make this statement while also criticizing LE for not releasing more information in several posts....I agree that not everything makes sense in this case yet, but I have also understood from day one the reasons why information was withheld. This is JMO, but I don't believe we as the public have any right to all the horrific details of Somer's death.


I totally agree. Great post.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 10:49 AM
BBM. I believe they were looking at him as a murder suspect prior to the child porn charges. Per the 20/20 special, neighbors at the mother's home in Callahan reported LE doing survellience back in January. His bio father reported being asked for a DNA swab weeks before the arrest on the child porn. I'm sure there is much more that we don't know of yet, but I am confident that he was a suspect prior to the child porn arrest.

And I'm confused by your last statement that enough has been said and done to prejudice his case already....you make this statement while also criticizing LE for not releasing more information in several posts....I agree that not everything makes sense in this case yet, but I have also understood from day one the reasons why information was withheld. This is JMO, but I don't believe we as the public have any right to all the horrific details of Somer's death.

What I meant by my statement was that enough information has been released to satisfy most people that JH must be Somer's killer. There have been salacious and disturbing details released about the sexual molestations. We know he lived in the vicinity, etc., etc. The documents are there for all to see. Enough has been said - and publicized through media - that I would be surprised if a jury could be found there. I am sure they can overcome these obstacles, however.

Again, I am not here to pick apart Florida Law Enforcement. They have a suspect in custody and enough evidence to hold him there. I am troubled, however, that if they were looking at him as a (suspect) before the porn charges, he managed to get away. You have to admit it took extraordinary measures to extradite him back. Apparently something went wrong somewhere. We may never know. But as I stated, I would like to know the whole truth.

As to the horrific details of Somer's death, I can say like her mother that I have imagined all kinds of gruesome things. I believe one has to face things before one can move on. We know the details of the deaths of other similar children - perhaps more than we would need to know. The contrast to me is that we know so little about how Somer died. I do not understand why information was given that she was "in the house a short time" - for what purpose? I would like to understand why that was said. A statement like that, to me, leaves me full of more questions. Personally when I think of this child, I can't think "asphyxiated - end of story". How can further crimes like this be prevented unless we realize the full scope of how and why they can occur? We can't just say "watch your kids" or "kids should be able to grow up"...kids are being tortured right now, even as we speak, it is an epidemic.

The reason I opened this thread was to have discussions and hopefully some answers to my own unanswered questions. If people are convinced that JH killed Somer, and it is simply a matter of waiting for the trial and ultimate conviction and punishment, why respond? I appreciate all the helpful information that is out there. I remain anxious for the whole truth and for it to be resolved and ended. That, to me, is justice.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 10:54 AM
As I mentioned earlier, I am troubled by the fact that JH was seen watching children for a long, long time, and nobody picked up on this fact. I am talking about neighbors here. Nobody contacted LE about his strange behaviors? All of a sudden, people are coming forward saying they saw him do this or that or Somer was sighted across the street, etc., etc. There is a disturbing element to me here. After months and months of nothing, after his house had been visited by LE and he managed to remain there after the murder, and escape, being dragged back after the Governor said "enough" - everyone's memories are suddenly jogged. Perhaps it took them seeing his mug shot on t.v. to recall his behaviors or seeing her there, who knows? Who can explain all these months of nothing? Sunshine, you say they were looking at him? They already had his computer? They couldn't bring him in for questioning? I don't understand it.

The sheriff got on t.v. early on and begged people to take a second look. He gave specific information on what to look for. Nobody thought of JH then. Why? Sincerely, I would like opinions on this.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 10:58 AM
IMO it would be crazy if LE gave us all that info until they HAVE to. What good would that do for Somer's case?

It will all come out through discovery and at the trial.

They are confident they have the right guy. They are confident enough to send this case to trial.

I would never describe CCSO as sloppy. We don't know what all they did and how they did it. And, we are not experts in investigating.

We don't know what all they have on this guy. And IMO them holding info close to the chest made JH feel comfy enough to relax and make mistakes. He thought he got away with it. He was moving on with his life. Then...bam...here come the charges.

I applaud CCSO. Job well done sirs!

As for JH, may he rot!

I am sincerely touched by your confidence...I wish I could say I was that confident, that it was that easy for me to believe. Individually, I respect each and every person in law enforcement or in the armed services because when they take on that job they risk their lives - what other jobs have that in the description? I know that people make mistakes, though.

There are still pieces of the puzzle missing...you can't finish it and frame it until all of the pieces are there. I wish I could put the puzzle away. Thanks for your replies.

BeanE
05-14-2010, 11:14 AM
Chickenpants, I'm not clear on the topic of this thread. Could you please clarify it for me?

Thanks,
BeanE

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 11:44 AM
Chickenpants, I'm not clear on the topic of this thread. Could you please clarify it for me?

Thanks,
BeanE

With respect, I will try.

I should edit POI and change it to Suspect.

We have a named suspect in jail and apparently enough evidence for a trial and possible conviction. This satisfied most people that they have their man and it's just a matter of time before he is put away for life or his life ended.

I am just a poster on WS, not an investigator and not a member of any jury. As a simple layperson, I have followed this sad case and seen many loopholes and discrepancies and things said and changed, etc. Although it seems like it here today, I am not the only one who feels this way. I still see room for discussion because the suspect has not been convicted yet.

There were 48 threads of discussion about the investigation and other topics pertaining to Somer before this one. Pages and pages of people discussing topics like molestation vs. sexual battery; dumpster theories; why said what when and why did they say that and not this; timelines; and a lot of speculation on the activities of JH before, during and after the murder. A lot of this remains unanswered. I respect each and every member's opinion and have learned a lot from the research and intelligence of the posters.

The simple answer to your question is, IMO, it is not over until it is over. That is why I opened the discussion to pre-trial investigation(s). I am still wondering and investigating the investigation. For those who feel it is over, and are just posting threads about activities pertaining to the trial and their hopeful conviction of JH as the murderer, I guess this thread is not for them. Perhaps nobody will come on here. IDK. Thanks.

Noway
05-14-2010, 12:33 PM
~snipped~

I applaud CCSO. Job well done sirs!

May I add "And ma'ams!"
;)


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Somer%20Thompson/LETeamSomer.jpg

Well, it's hard to tell but I think you can see a couple of women in there!

Noway
05-14-2010, 12:37 PM
While I'll admit that the information provided by the media is not enough to convict JH (if I were on the jury and not just posting opinion on this board), I have to have faith in CCSO and the States Attorney.

I have to believe they would not have made the arrest if they were not confident they had the evidence to back it up and get a conviction. Whether I'll still feel that way after evidence is presented at the trial, I do not know.

Thank you for your clarification on the purpose of the thread.

All JMO.

Noway
05-14-2010, 12:39 PM
Enpants, thanks for your clarification and agreeing that POI could be changed to suspect. It was the mention of POI that confused me the most.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 01:10 PM
~snipped~

I applaud CCSO. Job well done sirs!

May I add "And ma'ams!"
;)


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Somer%20Thompson/LETeamSomer.jpg

Well, it's hard to tell but I think you can see a couple of women in there!

Yep, you are right. Sorry ladies! Job well done!!!!

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 01:29 PM
~snipped~

I applaud CCSO. Job well done sirs!

May I add "And ma'ams!"
;)


http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Somer%20Thompson/LETeamSomer.jpg

Well, it's hard to tell but I think you can see a couple of women in there!

This is a great photo; have a FB friend whose husband was recently promoted to NYPD detective, and he looked so fantastic in his uniform that I asked her to send me a copy. Yes, I too applaud the hard work of LE everywhere. The world is a bad place to be LE in.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 01:30 PM
Enpants, thanks for your clarification and agreeing that POI could be changed to suspect. It was the mention of POI that confused me the most.

Sorry about that. I am not sure how to go in and change it, if it matters. I will go answer your other post and thanks.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 01:37 PM
While I'll admit that the information provided by the media is not enough to convict JH (if I were on the jury and not just posting opinion on this board), I have to have faith in CCSO and the States Attorney.

I have to believe they would not have made the arrest if they were not confident they had the evidence to back it up and get a conviction. Whether I'll still feel that way after evidence is presented at the trial, I do not know.

Thank you for your clarification on the purpose of the thread.

All JMO.

I totally agree (IMO) and must also agree that hopefully they will present A LOT MORE specific evidence in order to get a conviction on the murder of Somer. It's so easy for a perpetrator to walk on a technicality. For those of us old enough to remember, OJ Simpson walked because he had a defense team that out danced the prosecution and was able to punch holes left and right in the LE investigation and even spin it to make it look like a set-up and a racial matter.

This is another reason for my concern. If JH is indeed the killer, there are some alleged facts that do not quite make the cut of "uncontroverted" and a defense attorney would have fun with that. It has got to be a high-profile case with all of the media attention (including 20/20) to this point. At the point of a trial, good old Nancy Grace will probably pick up her interest again, along with many others; there will be pro and con pundits all over the airwaves. If I seem picky here, imagine what they will do then?

Take, for example, that JH allegedly made "statements" as to knowledge of the crime, but LE has never said he "confessed" to the crime. Perhaps at trial time this mystery will be solved. Maybe everyone is right by saying the less they release the better...but in that event, it seems better that they say NOTHING. Which is what they did at the outset, until they arrested JH. Then there were "clues" released but nothing specific.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 01:40 PM
I have a question. Do you think that, due to our activity on WS, any one of us would be exempted from a jury pool for the JH trial?

I ask this because we technically don't know any more than anybody else. If eligibility for jury would mean no knowledge of the events, I can't see how they will find anyone in that community that fits.

Would our interest in the crime thus far preclude our participation? Even if we were not sure he was guilty or innocent? Just wondering?

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 02:40 PM
I have a question. Do you think that, due to our activity on WS, any one of us would be exempted from a jury pool for the JH trial?

I ask this because we technically don't know any more than anybody else. If eligibility for jury would mean no knowledge of the events, I can't see how they will find anyone in that community that fits.

Would our interest in the crime thus far preclude our participation? Even if we were not sure he was guilty or innocent? Just wondering?

Yes, I think we would be exempted because we have all followed this case very close.

But, I see no difference in this case or what has been released as any other high profile case. There is a way to get an impartial jury. Maybe not in Orange Park, but there may be a change in venue or like the CA case, jurors could be brought in from another area.
IMO this happens all the time.

Esp in FL where they have the Sunshine Law.

I could almost assure our interest in the crime would preclude our participation. Even if we were not sure he is guilty or innocent. IMO we could never be jurors.

JMO

Chili Fries
05-14-2010, 02:51 PM
I am curious about the DNA as well. I had not stopped to think that LE would automatically put on file all DNA of RSO's. In any event, there was such a deal made when the investigation was lagging about how long it took to process DNA. So how could they have processed all the DNA on every RSO so quickly?

It would only take an instant to compare DNA to all the sex offenders, as long as it would take you to do a Google search. You have to remember that LE has DNA profiles for sex offenders in their database. All they have to do is run a simple computer matching check against whatever DNA they recovered that was associated with Somer.

I'm still very critical of the CCSO in general though because if Harrell had been arrested earlier on the child porn charges then Somer's life could have been spared. If I were her parents I would be exploring the possibility of filing a civil suit against the CCSO charging negligence. Maybe they have done that and it's out of the question, I don't know.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 03:05 PM
Chili:

Somewhere in one of the last general threads for this case, the child porn on JH's computer taking so long to investigate was picked over like a fine toothed comb.
I understand the frustratoin, but I think we learned that it can take months to investigate child porn charges due to having to prove JH was the one who downloaded them. There is also a money trail to follow if he paid for them.
You have to remember, his computer was brought to LE by someone else. Someone who had beef with JH. So, LE would first have to rule those people out. Then prove JH downloaded them. That takes a while.

The photos/video of the 3 year old was not found until search warrants were issued on JH's mother's home.

I'm not trying to defend CCSO, but I do understand how long this takes.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 04:28 PM
Yes, I think we would be exempted because we have all followed this case very close.

But, I see no difference in this case or what has been released as any other high profile case. There is a way to get an impartial jury. Maybe not in Orange Park, but there may be a change in venue or like the CA case, jurors could be brought in from another area.
IMO this happens all the time.

Esp in FL where they have the Sunshine Law.

I could almost assure our interest in the crime would preclude our participation. Even if we were not sure he is guilty or innocent. IMO we could never be jurors.

JMO

I agree; not only have we been exposed, but we have delved into it a lot. Still, there are some who I think can remain "impartial" (?) but I am sure of one thing, they will be very careful. IDK, something says to me I wish I (we) could be a juror, maybe be proved wrong. A lot of people on WS have proved they are intelligent and do not make snap judgments, that they care about right. It's pretty interesting to read about how juries in other cases take their responsibilities seriously and really, really care about following the rules, etc. It makes you want to go back and watch some of those old movies, like To Kill a Mockingbird, Judgement at Nuremberg, etc., all of which occurred before mass media and the internet!

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 04:38 PM
I think we are ALL intelligent and we ALL really care about right. As far as snap judgements, I think we all form our opinions of what happened by the information that is out there.
I mean, look how long a lot of people were stuck on family involvement. That did not mean they were not intelligent or did not care about right, they just formed an opinion that turned out to be wrong. It happens.

There is no way any of us could be "impartial" enough to serve on that jury. We know too much.
But, there are people who believe it or not, have never even heard of Somer Renee Thompson. Those people could be impartial.
I feel like when the evidence is laid out to the jury, they will come back with the right verdict, no matter what it is.

But, IMO, CCSO knows what all they have on him and they felt they could hand that info to the state and a jury would convict JH. I have faith in that.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 04:39 PM
It would only take an instant to compare DNA to all the sex offenders, as long as it would take you to do a Google search. You have to remember that LE has DNA profiles for sex offenders in their database. All they have to do is run a simple computer matching check against whatever DNA they recovered that was associated with Somer.

I'm still very critical of the CCSO in general though because if Harrell had been arrested earlier on the child porn charges then Somer's life could have been spared. If I were her parents I would be exploring the possibility of filing a civil suit against the CCSO charging negligence. Maybe they have done that and it's out of the question, I don't know.

I understood, though, that only the DNA of RSO's are available. There are such things called "SO's" - how do they reach that status? Is it that they were identified but did not have to register, how is that? WHO identified them, WHY were they called an SO, and HOW is that process carried out...that confuses me as well. Do they ONLY have to register once convicted? That seems to be terribly wrong - no common sense to that. Maybe this is a law that should change: Once caught doing anything sexual with a child, identified, registered, labelled, whatever, you are outed. You are no longer allowed to be around ANY children. It may prove a deterrent in our society which so lovingly upholds the rights of criminals. Criminals have rights and children are brutalized and killed because of those rights, I can't see it any other way.

We know that there were a lot of registered SO's and then the innumerable ones not registered like JH. A big, dumb slug with an obsession to watch little girls (which neighbors now describe as hinky), a classic profile of a pedophile, shed and all, with evidence of his sickness left all over the place - who nobody paid any attention to, even when they thought he was weird. Even when they thought "maybe" and had the evidence right under their noses. He sat there for days as they combed the neighborhoods and searched through garbage, he was still there. Here's what scares me: was it because he had never been arrested or convicted of anything? Yet he was a "SO". I wish somebody would help me with this.

Absolutely I believe if JH had been arrested, or at least questioned further it may have made a huge difference. I still shudder to think he may have photographed or molested more little girls after they already had enough on him to put him in jail. I do not have a clue as to why he was not arrested. I understand the difference between "interviewing" someone and "interrogating" them is the difference between someone looked at and some labelled POI or Suspect. But the same factors and behaviors that originally caught their attention about him and made them go into his house have not changed. They went in and saw no evidence. By that time, he had had enough time to get rid of it. Then they went back later and obtained evidence. ????? What am I missing here? Am I getting this wrong? I'm curious to what evidence they found the second time that they did not see the first.

It's curious also that since JH has been arrested, several more have been hauled in on child porn only, and with very high bail. They were there all along, too. A good example is the 20/20 program. It made one's skin crawl.

Big difference IMO between innocent until PROVEN guilty and presumed innocent but allowed the freedom to continue one's criminal activities for some outrageous reason in the justice system. Until parents and others who love children refuse to accept this, it will continue. Criminals forfeit their rights to live in society by virtue of their acts against citizens, IMO. I wonder what if anything can be done. It is hearteneing to see new laws coming out, but tragic that little girls like Somer have to be the casualties that move people to act on what is obvious anyway.

I don't see either of Somer's parents with a civil suit against LE. Not judging by their public comments of support. Samuel refuses to say a word against them, and Diena said they were like "family". What would have changed now?

Sorry about my rambling. Enough said. I am hoping somebody here will have the answers I lack.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 04:57 PM
SO is a term we use here and I've seen other places when we talk about sex offenders that have not been caught yet.

ETA: JH was a sex offender and we did not know it. And, neither did CCSO until they found the sd card at his mother's home with the pictures/video of him with the 3 year old.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 05:05 PM
I think we are ALL intelligent and we ALL really care about right. As far as snap judgements, I think we all form our opinions of what happened by the information that is out there.
I mean, look how long a lot of people were stuck on family involvement. That did not mean they were not intelligent or did not care about right, they just formed an opinion that turned out to be wrong. It happens.

There is no way any of us could be "impartial" enough to serve on that jury. We know too much.
But, there are people who believe it or not, have never even heard of Somer Renee Thompson. Those people could be impartial.
I feel like when the evidence is laid out to the jury, they will come back with the right verdict, no matter what it is.

But, IMO, CCSO knows what all they have on him and they felt they could hand that info to the state and a jury would convict JH. I have faith in that.

Well, Kim, "knowing too much" isn't a bad thing ... it will all come out, as you say, when the trial occurs. Facts being facts. The attorney will spin the facts to try to win. I pray they can find people who are impartial. Yes, it would be a kind of madness to hold him there if they really do not have evidence that they were sure could result in a conviction. It appears from what information is available, that at some point he filled them in on activities (made statements/admissions) which strengthened their confidence. The one question that I will always want answered is the same one Diena asks: Why Somer? Why out of all of the little girls he saw walk on that route every day, did he choose her? How would he know to abduct her in broad daylight and be sure that nobody would catch him? Did he plan it, all around this one little girl? Why did he want to kill HER?

As a result of these questions, I have stated that more information on what happened to her could determine his culpability further. If this was planned in advance - if he used props, photographs, engaged in activities similar to those he did in the past, etc., and this corroborated with what was discovered on the autopsy, it would be powerful evidence even without DNA.

Was it a sex crime gone wrong? Or did he plan murder in advance? There would be evidence on autopsy to nail exactly what happened in what order, based on deteroriation of certain organs, etc. Pooling of blood in certain parts of the body, for instance, bruising, lacerations, etc. From the time he touched her (grabbing an arm and causing a bruise) to suffocating her, everything would tell a story.

As everyone says here, LE apparently knows every bit of this. They know how, but I do not know if they know WHY...why Somer Thompson? She is the little girl who is gone now, and she deserves the answer.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 05:10 PM
SO is a term we use here and I've seen other places when we talk about sex offenders that have not been caught yet.

ETA: JH was a sex offender and we did not know it. And, neither did CCSO until they found the sd card at his mother's home with the pictures/video of him with the 3 year old.

It was my understanding that they did know, as they had his computer with the pornography which had been reported, they made a special visit to his house during the investigation. I do not know on what basis they visited him and he "cooperated", but people did know he was a pervert. At least the Buchanans did.

How does somebody get labelled a sex offender who has not been caught? Someone would have to know he offended to call him that. What does it mean to get caught? Does that mean people know this person is a sex offender but let him go on offending? Or that nobody has bothered to catch him? We toss around "RSO" and "SO" but these are individuals who hurt children and the instant anybody knows anything they should be deterred immediately.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 05:14 PM
I don't think she was targeted, no more than any other child that is snatched by a SO.
I think he chose Somer because she ran ahead and was alone. Plain and simple.

Like any other predator (like a wild animal), he struck when a weaker victim was alone and an easy target. JMO

As for DT asking why Somer, most parents do question why "their child" was taken/murdered. That's like when someone says "why me???" when they find out they have cancer.
I would think when anything tragic happens to people, they want to know why them. KWIM


JMO

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 05:14 PM
I read somewhere on one of these threads that LE was "watching" JH for a long time. I am sorry I cannot furnish specific details on when they were watching him or where. But whenever he was being "watched" he was free.

I totally understand the problem with following up on that computer. What I do not understand is, when Somer was murdered, why LE did not check out every single computer in their possession when looking for possible perpetrators. If they suspected it was a sexually-motivated crime, there would be one of the first places to start looking, IMO.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 05:21 PM
It was my understanding that they did know, as they had his computer with the pornography which had been reported, they made a special visit to his house during the investigation. I do not know on what basis they visited him and he "cooperated", but people did know he was a pervert. At least the Buchanans did.

How does somebody get labelled a sex offender who has not been caught? Someone would have to know he offended to call him that. What does it mean to get caught? Does that mean people know this person is a sex offender but let him go on offending? Or that nobody has bothered to catch him? We toss around "RSO" and "SO" but these are individuals who hurt children and the instant anybody knows anything they should be deterred immediately.

BBM
They made a special visit to most houses in that neighborhood. I think it was in the media they even searched the school's superintendant's home.

You're missing my point on the term sex offender. It is used to describe a person who is just that, a sex offender. But, once they are caught and convicted, they must register and then they become a RSO.
You can be a SO and nobody ever knows it.
We use the term SO here all the time. JH is a SO, but he is not a convicted SO or a RSO. Once he is convicted, he will be a convicted SO or RSO.
It does not mean people know a SO is a SO and nobody bothered to catch him.
I could go to the store right now and take something without paying for it. I would be a thief. But, I wasn't caught so nobody would know I was a thief. Same thing.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 05:24 PM
I read somewhere on one of these threads that LE was "watching" JH for a long time. I am sorry I cannot furnish specific details on when they were watching him or where. But whenever he was being "watched" he was free.

I totally understand the problem with following up on that computer. What I do not understand is, when Somer was murdered, why LE did not check out every single computer in their possession when looking for possible perpetrators. If they suspected it was a sexually-motivated crime, there would be one of the first places to start looking, IMO.

I really don't think that is a common practice among murder investigations.

I read somewhere, the info is in one of the last general threads here, that most child porn creeps do not offend.

human
05-14-2010, 05:44 PM
I think that laws on sex offenders vary from state to state. That is a huge problem. There should be one law.

Where I live, Registered Sex Offenders are what are called "Level Three-most likely to re offend". Level One and Level Two are not in a data base here of sex offenders.

They would be in a data base of criminals, but not in a search for sex offenders. The Jacob Wetterling Foundation has info on this type of thing, I believe.

If not, there is a website somewhere, that I read ,of states that have very lax laws regarding sex offenders.

Where I live, there is community notification of Level three sex offenders moving into a neighborhood. There are neighborhood meetings, and it is reported in the newspaper for all to see.

The city that I live by has made a new law defining where sex offenders can live.

Some people, whose neighborhoods were the target areas because they are low income neighborhoods, complained to their city councilor. He promptly got the law changed within a couple of weeks of the citizens asking him.

There were objections to it stating the fact that with no place to live, these offenders would be more likely to re offend. Also, an artificial safe zone does not mean that they can't get victims outside of the zone.

But because the city has a low rent area,, other places were sending their offenders here. We only have 9 in the whole city-Level Three, that is.

Someone in the city suggested a group home place to live under supervision which might be a good idea

We can keep locking them up, but it doesn't change the fact that they have made victims out there, some of whom never recover or they kill their victims.

I would rather see a ton of money and resources put into finding out what makws these weirdos and then stop whatever it is.

It seems like there is an epidemic out there. But I suppose that there is no vaccine out there, so there is no monetary reason for people to jump on the cause.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 06:09 PM
I don't think she was targeted, no more than any other child that is snatched by a SO.
I think he chose Somer because she ran ahead and was alone. Plain and simple.

Like any other predator (like a wild animal), he struck when a weaker victim was alone and an easy target. JMO

As for DT asking why Somer, most parents do question why "their child" was taken/murdered. That's like when someone says "why me???" when they find out they have cancer.
I would think when anything tragic happens to people, they want to know why them. KWIM


JMO

So do you think JH just saw her and grabbed her that day on a sexual impulse - that he had never watched her before or perhaps been attracted to her...I am thinking now about information regarding her and his dog...she gave it a name, which indicates that she was probably around there more than once. It says she wasn't a child who just walked on by. He knew of her, how did this affect what happened, in your opinion. Why HER instead of another little girl, is my question. Was it attraction? Something he had felt for a while...perhaps he wanted to photograph her? They say that one way pedophiles "groom" possible victims is using pets. If this is true, if it can be proven that he singled her out ahead of time, and just waited for his opportunity, it would IMO be premeditated.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 06:15 PM
I think that laws on sex offenders vary from state to state. That is a huge problem. There should be one law.

Where I live, Registered Sex Offenders are what are called "Level Three-most likely to re offend". Level One and Level Two are not in a data base here of sex offenders.

They would be in a data base of criminals, but not in a search for sex offenders. The Jacob Wetterling Foundation has info on this type of thing, I believe.

If not, there is a website somewhere, that I read ,of states that have very lax laws regarding sex offenders.

Where I live, there is community notification of Level three sex offenders moving into a neighborhood. There are neighborhood meetings, and it is reported in the newspaper for all to see.

The city that I live by has made a new law defining where sex offenders can live.

Some people, whose neighborhoods were the target areas because they are low income neighborhoods, complained to their city councilor. He promptly got the law changed within a couple of weeks of the citizens asking him.

There were objections to it stating the fact that with no place to live, these offenders would be more likely to re offend. Also, an artificial safe zone does not mean that they can't get victims outside of the zone.

But because the city has a low rent area,, other places were sending their offenders here. We only have 9 in the whole city-Level Three, that is.

Someone in the city suggested a group home place to live under supervision which might be a good idea

We can keep locking them up, but it doesn't change the fact that they have made victims out there, some of whom never recover or they kill their victims.

I would rather see a ton of money and resources put into finding out what makws these weirdos and then stop whatever it is.

It seems like there is an epidemic out there. But I suppose that there is no vaccine out there, so there is no monetary reason for people to jump on the cause.

I am incredulous reading your first paragraph..."Level I and Level II are not put into a data base"?????????? Oh My God. What determines the levels? Touching vs. molesting vs. raping...you are saying in essence that it's like the three strikes law - first two don't really count. Even though little human beings have been harmed.

I don't think all the money in the world can stop these weirdos no matter why it is determined they do it. It is a disease. It can be stopped by medicine. But criminals can assert their rights to deny medicine, can't they?

The only way to stop them is to keep ALL OF THEM AWAY FROM KIDS. Once a person has offended, no matter WHAT LEVEL, IT ENDS RIGHT THERE.

Maybe it takes grassroots parental involvement to police their own neighborhoods, point out the pervs, insist LE take action, go to the legislature, the supreme court, whatever. Apparently the system does not get involved seriously until someone is scarred for life, even maimed. Or murdered, like Somer. Too late then.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 06:17 PM
I think he would have taken any pretty little girl that he had a chance to grab that day. Somer was by herself and he grabbed her.
He could not have planned on her being by herself because she was with a group and ran ahead. He would not have known that was gonna happen.

JMO

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 06:19 PM
That being said, it could still be found that it wad premeditated. Premeditation can be formed in a matter of seconds.

He could have planned to take a little girl and grabbed Somer. Still premeditated.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 06:23 PM
BBM
They made a special visit to most houses in that neighborhood. I think it was in the media they even searched the school's superintendant's home.

You're missing my point on the term sex offender. It is used to describe a person who is just that, a sex offender. But, once they are caught and convicted, they must register and then they become a RSO.
You can be a SO and nobody ever knows it.
We use the term SO here all the time. JH is a SO, but he is not a convicted SO or a RSO. Once he is convicted, he will be a convicted SO or RSO.
It does not mean people know a SO is a SO and nobody bothered to catch him.
I could go to the store right now and take something without paying for it. I would be a thief. But, I wasn't caught so nobody would know I was a thief. Same thing.

Well that is a very good explanation. It would be a shame, too, if people suspected or knew you were a thief and did nothing about it. Or waited until you not only robbed someone but killed them before saying, "Oh, right, I forgot that I suspected all along she was a thief". LOL

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 06:25 PM
But JH has never been convicted of anything Chickenpants. Her family and LE could very well have kept her away from every known SO in the world. JH was not a known SO at the time of Somers murder.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 06:25 PM
That being said, it could still be found that it wad premeditated. Premeditation can be formed in a matter of seconds.

He could have planned to take a little girl and grabbed Somer. Still premeditated.

I had never thought of the possibility that JH may have been looking at or planning to take another (or any) little girl besides Somer. I guess only he knows this for sure. But that is why I started this thread, to open up new ways of looking at things. So thank you for your input.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 06:32 PM
IMO most SOs are not all that picky. They are cowards and prey on the weak. In this case it was a big beast against a tiny innocent child that happened to be by herself.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 06:32 PM
But JH has never been convicted of anything Chickenpants. Her family and LE could very well have kept her away from every known SO in the world. JH was not a known SO at the time of Somers murder.

Not meaning to be picky here...he was a known child porn addict, right? Various people who lived with him testified to that. We learned after the fact he had been doing things other than downloading porn.

But downloading child porn - that did not qualify him to be a "SO"? Because he had not been arrested, I surmise.

If you have a specific agency within LE that deals with child porn and must be affiliated with crimes against children - does not stand alone (for what purpose would that serve) - isn't it common sense to look to them for possible child abduction/molestation/murder suspects?

I am LE and it is November and I have combed the neighborhood and come up with nothing. Like the guy who had the hunch about that garbage truck...was there nobody who had a hunch to check on those computers and see if any of them were registered to anyone who lived in the vicinity? I accept your explanations - I am just giving my opinion. It bothers me, that's all.

Hopefully, all LE agencies would be interconnected because a lot of crimes are interconnected...robberies to rapes to manslaughters and etc., etc., and there must be a thread of continuity between crimes against children. While it may be statistically sound that a low number of child porn addicts ever commit murder, we now learn that JH was possibly one of them. Why take a chance, is my question? Check the most obvious places first. People who are sick enough to download child porn probably have other quirks as well.

LOL I am a big one for statistics, as many know. But damn the statistics when innocent little ones are targets for sick people.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 06:34 PM
Kinberly, I would like to know your opinion and explanation of Somer and that dog. Does that not appear to be some kind of premeditation to you based on the fact that if she stopped frequently to pet that dog, he would have had more time to think about her and possibly lure her into trusting him?

Chili Fries
05-14-2010, 06:59 PM
Chili:

Somewhere in one of the last general threads for this case, the child porn on JH's computer taking so long to investigate was picked over like a fine toothed comb.
I understand the frustratoin, but I think we learned that it can take months to investigate child porn charges due to having to prove JH was the one who downloaded them. There is also a money trail to follow if he paid for them.
You have to remember, his computer was brought to LE by someone else. Someone who had beef with JH. So, LE would first have to rule those people out. Then prove JH downloaded them. That takes a while.

The photos/video of the 3 year old was not found until search warrants were issued on JH's mother's home.

I'm not trying to defend CCSO, but I do understand how long this takes.

I understand all that. However you never know what would be unearthed in discovery (such as internal CCSO communications) and I think if it were my child that's something I would wonder about and at least talk to a lawyer about pursuing.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 09:38 PM
I understand all that. However you never know what would be unearthed in discovery (such as internal CCSO communications) and I think if it were my child that's something I would wonder about and at least talk to a lawyer about pursuing.


I am not her parent and I am wondering. What I would have done in any case is probably not what they would do. If people sue for wrongful death in the case of a defective automobile, think about it being a child murder...

I understand and agree with you. The computer was turned in August and she was murdered in October. Plenty of time for them to be following up on the child porn pedophiles that they had on hand, doing what they needed to do to put a stop to those activities by those people, and possibly have prevented Somer's murder? If JH had been even questioned during the initial investigation (if there was any) into his computer - it may have scared him off pursuing little ones for whatever reason at least for a while. Maybe he might have even moved to where he thought he would not be detected to continue his bizarre obsessions. What do they do with those computers, anyway? Under what circumstances do they actually pursue those people? For a while after he was arrested, there was a rash - almost a dragnet of child porn activity. They were throwing them in the slammer right and left.

In any event, once this child had been abducted and killed - and an autopsy indicated sexual battery, the first thing would be to check every possibility concerning every person connected to any crime against a child. Wouldn't it? You wouldn't investigate the robbery division, for example. What am I getting wrong here? Help me. You have a situation where a person was outed to LE as the owner of child pornography and he lived on the street where she walked home from school. IIRC, Buchanan contacted them a couple of times. What happened? What took them so long to follow up? He (Buchanan) pushed and pushed and spilled it out on the internet, from what I saw. Things rolled after that. Was that a coincidence? Well, whatever it took to get it going is o-k with me; I am just sorry it took so long. What other computers do they have with images downloaded from other pervs in and around school neighborhoods and what will it take to haul these people in? I am ignorant, admittedly about the laws of search and seizure in these cases. But if they already have it there, what is stopping them from nailing those perps?

As it was he (JH) either being extremely stupid, or extremely smart and arrogant, apparently thought he had nothing to worry about. Does anybody know if he was aware that his computer had been turned over? That puts an interesting face on his activities. If he knew that, and waited, and nothing happened, he bravely went forward with whatever thinking there would be no consequences. He apparently abducted and murdered this child in the middle of an afternoon in broad daylight, no small feat. Then had the audacity to get through an interview with LE and REMAIN IN THE AREA for a long time, and escape out of their reach.

This is all speculation on my part. But a man knowing he is tracked or a man in jail is less likely to commit a crime, I would think. Thus if he had been properly investigated including his computer activities, by the corroborating agencies, she might have lived. IMO.

Sunshine77
05-14-2010, 09:45 PM
So do you think JH just saw her and grabbed her that day on a sexual impulse - that he had never watched her before or perhaps been attracted to her...I am thinking now about information regarding her and his dog...she gave it a name, which indicates that she was probably around there more than once. It says she wasn't a child who just walked on by. He knew of her, how did this affect what happened, in your opinion. Why HER instead of another little girl, is my question. Was it attraction? Something he had felt for a while...perhaps he wanted to photograph her? They say that one way pedophiles "groom" possible victims is using pets. If this is true, if it can be proven that he singled her out ahead of time, and just waited for his opportunity, it would IMO be premeditated.

When anything tragic happens, most people question why and I think it's a natural response. However, we may never know why. The why part of it will probably never make sense.

You say he knew of her. I would disagree and say we don't know that yet. Per the article on the white dog: "Dawn Nuss, 39, whose 8-year-old daughter Christina used to walk home with Somer, said her daughter told her that Somer used to stop at the house and pet a white dog. No one would ever come out of the house."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/12/national/main6200498.shtml

Yes, there were some neighbors that claim he would stand outside and watch the children, but there also seem to be others who say there was no one outside the house. And a great deal of the neighbors have said nothing to the media (but probably to LE) so we don't know yet. Per Diena, the other kids said they had never seen JH before.

I appreciate the questions you are bringing up here, but at this point we don't know many of answers. Just because alot of information has not been released, I don't think it means LE doesn't know the answers. Yes, it frustrates me too, and I wait for more to be released.

Sunshine77
05-14-2010, 09:57 PM
[QUOTE=ChickenPants;5188390] In any event, once this child had been abducted and killed - and an autopsy indicated sexual battery, the first thing would be to check every possibility concerning every person connected to any crime against a child. Wouldn't it? You wouldn't investigate the robbery division, for example. What am I getting wrong here? Help me. [QUOTE]

How do you know that they didn't? Just because they haven't put every move of their investigation into the media, doesn't mean they weren't looking at various suspects.

As for JH, they talked to him within a few days of the murder. They searched his house. I'm assuming here this "search" was probably not very detailed, more a walk through type thing and nothing stood out as being off. He gave an alibi and they checked with his mother who gave the same story. They apparently moved onto suspects that looked more viable....and came back to JH when those didn't pan out.

ChickenPants
05-14-2010, 11:14 PM
[QUOTE=ChickenPants;5188390] In any event, once this child had been abducted and killed - and an autopsy indicated sexual battery, the first thing would be to check every possibility concerning every person connected to any crime against a child. Wouldn't it? You wouldn't investigate the robbery division, for example. What am I getting wrong here? Help me. [QUOTE]

How do you know that they didn't? Just because they haven't put every move of their investigation into the media, doesn't mean they weren't looking at various suspects.

As for JH, they talked to him within a few days of the murder. They searched his house. I'm assuming here this "search" was probably not very detailed, more a walk through type thing and nothing stood out as being off. He gave an alibi and they checked with his mother who gave the same story. They apparently moved onto suspects that looked more viable....and came back to JH when those didn't pan out.

If they did (check the links to computer porn, etc.) I wonder why JH never showed up on the radar. Maybe he did and they just sat on it and as I have heard, "watched him"...but in hindsight, he was free for 2 months before Somer was killed when they already had something to grab him on. I think Human mentioned that we at WS could put JH or Annis into Google and find out that they weren't normal in seconds. He seems to have been a pretty big red flag, especially considering that the investigation was stalling because there just were no other viable persons of interest. Something slipped up somewhere, or he would never have gotten out of town. As you say, we may never know.

If JH is brought to trial, it seems logical that these issues will be brought up, as several similar ones were on the 20/20 broadcast.

I would also like to add (and I know a lot of people will disagree) that if LE had been more forthcoming after the autopsy that Somer had been sexually molested, it would have narrowed down the suspect pool significantly for those people who perhaps would not have until then had second thoughts about persons or activities they had seen related to her. I don't see how releasing that information could have jeopardized the case, as her mother and a lot of people indicated they believed it to have happened. But someone may have remembered JH a lot sooner and come forward. It wasn't until Rod Buchanan pressed on that he was really investigated at all, apparently.

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Kinberly, I would like to know your opinion and explanation of Somer and that dog. Does that not appear to be some kind of premeditation to you based on the fact that if she stopped frequently to pet that dog, he would have had more time to think about her and possibly lure her into trusting him?

Well, we learned most times when she would stop and pet the dog, she was with one of her friends.
So, that being said, what if it were the friend that day that was along, don't you think he would've taken the friend?

Or, any other child that was alone that day?

I do not think Somer was targeted or stalked. She was by herself and he took her.

JMO

Kimberlyd125
05-14-2010, 11:42 PM
I'm not being rude here, but all of this has been discussed over and over and hashed out and rehashed in 40 something threads.
I'm not real sure what this thread is for.

I was under the impression that when Somer got a sub forum, that we could open a thread on a specific topic and discuss that topic.

So far on this thread we have discussed at least 10 topics. Maybe we need to open a thread for each topic?

I thought that was how it worked. So everything would be more organized.

human
05-15-2010, 03:51 AM
I guess if this topic is of no interest to some readers, then perhaps it should not be read.

JH knew that LE had his computer.

LE looked at Grandpa Watson's computer RIGHT AWAY!

I am mystified by many things LE did. Most of all why they did not release that she was sexually abused. Why not? I agree with Chicken Pants that if that had been released, people might have been looking harder .

If it wasn't for Rod B, I don't think this case would have been solved.

human
05-15-2010, 04:45 AM
There are different kinds of child sex offenders. Some only like children of a certain age. Some only like boys or girls. Some stay within their family. Some are opportunistic.

I thi8nk there were other issues with
Somer because the locations of where she was last seen. Some had her going up Debarry, which was past the JH house.

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 04:59 AM
I'm not being rude here, but all of this has been discussed over and over and hashed out and rehashed in 40 something threads.
I'm not real sure what this thread is for.

I was under the impression that when Somer got a sub forum, that we could open a thread on a specific topic and discuss that topic.

So far on this thread we have discussed at least 10 topics. Maybe we need to open a thread for each topic?

I thought that was how it worked. So everything would be more organized.

I put this up for "general discussion" about investigation so that would prob. be why there were 10 topics discussed? I'm not clear on what you are suggesting about each topic. Have I misunderstood the whole forum?

I have been basically focusing on the investigation. most recently as pertains to JH's liklihood as a POI much earlier on...how much he knew Somer is debatable as per the different opinions stated. How does this impact a future trial and its outcome, etc.

Again, I had not thought of the possibility that she was with someone else when she petted the dog. So I learned that. So that is something gained from the discussion. There aren't too many people even on here talking, so you are possibly right, perhaps they don't want to discuss these aspects. I am interested in any information or perpectives about any element of the investigation that could make it more clear. If and when a trial emerges, I suspect that some or all of the investigation and issues debated in the past will come up again.

Maybe a moderator can weigh in here and enlighten me as to the appropriateness of the thread.

TIA

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 05:04 AM
There are different kinds of child sex offenders. Some only like children of a certain age. Some only like boys or girls. Some stay within their family. Some are opportunistic.

I thi8nk there were other issues with
Somer because the locations of where she was last seen. Some had her going up Debarry, which was past the JH house.

According to various sources (neighbors, friends) she went different places at different times on different days, depending on who was doing the talking. IIRC, people said she flitted around, twirling, hugging, running off, petting animals, being loving, "didn't know a stranger" - just being a little cypher.

I can see how on this day, people may have confused it with other days. They didn't get up that morning and decide to look at Somer and her activities. I am trying to put myself in the place of the general scene, and it had to be chaotic with all of those kids and parents walking along those routes every day. The only person watching, apparently, was JH.

Kimberlyd125
05-15-2010, 07:03 AM
I guess if this topic is of no interest to some readers, then perhaps it should not be read.
JH knew that LE had his computer.

LE looked at Grandpa Watson's computer RIGHT AWAY!

I am mystified by many things LE did. Most of all why they did not release that she was sexually abused. Why not? I agree with Chicken Pants that if that had been released, people might have been looking harder .

If it wasn't for Rod B, I don't think this case would have been solved.

human: It's not about "this topic" it's about "these many topics" on one thread. If we were going to have a general discussion thread, why did we need a sub forum? If it is seperated by topic, it's better organized. You post on one topic, stay on that topic and it's organized. Normally when we have a sub forum, we don't discuss several topics on one thread.
That's why I'm confused.
It's not that I'm not interested, it's that it jumps around all over the place.

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 12:39 PM
I would be interested in anyone's views hypothetically; if today, this case went to trial, having ONLY the information we have, how would one prosecute the accused?

It seems largely a circumstantial case (the child porn peripheral to the murder), i.e. these are things that went down, as I understand them and please feel free to fill in the blanks of what I am forgetting:

1. We know that JH had child porn on his computer and other places; it has been alleged that he sexually molested and photographed his niece when she was 3 years old;

2. That he engaged in posing and manipulating minor girls to photograph them - this based on his hands being identified;

3. That he lived in the vicinity of Somer's walk to and from school and that she was a free spirit who roamed around and was friendly and affectionate to everybody;

4. That he had a dog she petted;

5. That she was seen near his home by at least one person petting his dog, and also seen sitting across the street on a curb looking sad;

6. She disappeared October 19 after disengaging herself from her siblings; found murdered; her autopsy revealed (?) or it has been established by other means - she was sexually battered before or after she was murdered;

7. Her body discovered in a dumpster in another state and there remain controversies over dumpsters and who found where when;

8. JH and his mother claim they were at the home, went out to eat and gas up vehicles as an alibi and JH's mother reminds him of this when he is freaking out later in jail;

9. LE had custody of computer, LE came to his house and him interviewed him early on in investigation, he was cooperative, he and the house raised no suspicions at that time and he remained in the area apparently unfazed, before he left for another state;

10. Months in, Buchanan reminds LE about computer and having seen JH in his house, he is tracked and arrested, the governor gets involved, and he is then extradited back to FL on those original child porn charges. JH refuses to give DNA and (in statements to his mother overheard) accuses LE of filling out the arrest report incorrectly, which delayed the process and made him unable to speak to an attorney until it was rectified;

11. At the time of the arrest, LE states publicly that the arrest no relationship to the child's murder, but a million dollar bond is ordered related to the computer porn charges and he is placed in solitary confinement. All of this is discussed in the media; the general perception that he is guilty and people are relieved that he is off the streets and he is named a POI.

12. At some point, LE
- re-entered JH's home and emerged with new evidence
- spoke to JH and he allegedly made "admissions" that indicate he was familiar with the victim; a DNA match is made.
- LE will not say that he confessed to the crime

13. After some time, LE comes forward with more specific information (cause of death) and releases to the public the charges. The charges specify other pornography activities and that Somer was sexually battered. The attorney general places a gag on further information, details of manner of death are not released. JH becomes the number one Suspect, but LE refuses to make statement ruling out other suspects, JH pleads "not guilty" and has obtained a defense attorney.

Could he be convicted on the above? When I review it, I want to know how evidence was discovered at the second investigation of the home (after he had time to get rid of evidence), what statements he made that are not classifed as a "confession" and under what circumstances and witnessed by whom; how the DNA was collected and where it was found; when - as precisely as possible - the sexual battery occurred, and a very thorough explanation of how he managed to kill the child and dispose of the body within such a short timeline. Why LE will not rule out other suspects, is the investigation still open or is it technically closed? Otherwise, I cannot convict because there are "reasonable doubts". And every single one of those doubts can be removed by information from LE.

Sunshine77
05-15-2010, 04:44 PM
It's not the job of LE to try this case in the media, but rather in a courtroom. I wouldn't convict JH on what has been released thus far. That is what a trial is for. The media is notorious for reporting incorrect/incomplete/sensational information.

Kimberlyd125
05-15-2010, 06:25 PM
It's not the job of LE to try this case in the media, but rather in a courtroom. I wouldn't convict JH on what has been released thus far. That is what a trial is for. The media is notorious for reporting incorrect/incomplete/sensational information.

I agree. If they didn't think they had enough to get a conviction, they would not have charged him IMO.

Also, the fact they have not said other suspects are cleared is a no brainer IMO. I don't think, in any case I have followed, I have ever seen LE come out after they have charged someone with murder, and give a list of cleared people. They have charged JH, therefore, there are no other suspects, no one to clear. He went from POI to suspect to charged.
So I guess you can say, everyone except JH has been cleared.

JMO

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 06:54 PM
It's not the job of LE to try this case in the media, but rather in a courtroom. I wouldn't convict JH on what has been released thus far. That is what a trial is for. The media is notorious for reporting incorrect/incomplete/sensational information.

I agree with you. But the people seem to be trying the case because of the media. Not everyone knows, like you, or accepts, that the media is often innacurate. IMO this jeopardizes the case, pro or con...that's why I think word clarification would help.

Kimberlyd125
05-15-2010, 06:55 PM
I personally am going by what came out of LE's mouths, not the media.

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 07:02 PM
I agree. If they didn't think they had enough to get a conviction, they would not have charged him IMO.

Also, the fact they have not said other suspects are cleared is a no brainer IMO. I don't think, in any case I have followed, I have ever seen LE come out after they have charged someone with murder, and give a list of cleared people. They have charged JH, therefore, there are no other suspects, no one to clear. He went from POI to suspect to charged.
So I guess you can say, everyone except JH has been cleared.

JMO

That makes sense for sure. What has bothered me is that they have clarified some things and not others and I am sure they have their reasons.

For instance, when he was initially arrested, they went out and made sure everyone knew it was not connected with the murder. That may have been because they did not want people to think he was automatically being set up for it, or possibly as a way to get him to relax and let go of more information? IDK.

I remember way, way back when they released that criminal profile. They kept sending out messages that somebody knew something and was not coming forward - in fact, IIRC didn't sheriff say those words or similar words? At that time, I got the impression they were trying to make people look at friends or family members. That whole issue kind of died out. The sexual predator possibility was not commented on after the RSO's were ruled out. Not until JH arrested and then a lot of people said, "see? I THOUGHT it would turn out to be that".

Initially, Mary Justino and Beseler pointedly stated they were not going to discuss ANY particulars of the investigation. Then there was that bizarre issue of the pink lunch box and book bag - even putting a prototype out in the media. That, too, fizzled. It was strange because the first bookbag on the MPR was a black one, which changed to Miley Cyrus, etc. Then all of a sudden everybody was searching for the pink skull and crossbones. That caused all kinds of speculation on cults, etc. As people have said, this has all been gone over.

My point being that there has been a strong attempt to clarify some things and what seems to be an equally strong attempt to avoid others. As you say, certainly they have their reasons.

Kimberlyd125
05-15-2010, 07:09 PM
Here is a copy of the transcript from Sheriff Rick Besler's statement after JH was charged...

http://wokv.com/localnews/2010/03/read-the-sheriffs-statement.html

Snipped:

Harrell's name first surfaced not long after Somer's death as one of over 4,000 leads given to Team Somer in the days and weeks after the crime. As we began to scrutinize Harrell and his activities, he emerged as a person of interest. After obtaining a sample of DNA from Harrell, the tedious process of comparison analysis began. If it was apparent the public was impatient with how long the investigation was taking, just imagine the pressure on investigators. But the pressure to work fast never overshadowed the need to do it right and investigators proceeded carefully with their work.
While I know there is intense interest in knowing all of the details of the investigation and all of the evidence that has led us to this point, it is still necessary to protect the integrity of the future prosecution of this case.
I can tell you that in order to get to this point investigators have relied on statements from witnesses, admissions from the defendant, DNA technology results and evidence that Harrell was at the location on Gano Avenue when Somer disappeared along with other evidence.
I will also tell you that based on that evidence, along with our investigation, we are confident Jarred Harrell committed this crime; therefore we are bringing this murder charge today.


BBM


This is not from the media, this was a prepared statement.

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 07:09 PM
I personally am going by what came out of LE's mouths, not the media.

Exactly, my point, K. But what comes out of LE's mouth is either given directly via presser or quoted in or out of context by media. A lot has gotten mixed up that way. Consider the dumpster and who suggested it drama. Sheriff says this, media says that, Sheriff comes back and clarifies that, media reports this or that and everybody becomes dumpster disabled. If everybody was like you, that would be consistent. But a lot of people DO believe what the media says.

One impact of that is that LE is an elected office. They will have to depend on public support and satisfaction to hold office. It does not appear to have a connection, but realistically, politics are a part of the whole scene. If they were not, the LE would be appointed, not elected by the people. There is a reason the people are given the choice. A classic example is them needing the governor to extradite JH back to Florida. There were a lot of agencies involved, all to one extent or another, all held accountable for something, all will profit or lose by the outcome of the case to some degree.

Sheriff Beseler probably never dreamed he would be put into such a high profile case. It must be a source of anxiety and frustration to him personally.

ChickenPants
05-15-2010, 07:12 PM
Here is a copy of the transcript from Sheriff Rick Besler's statement after JH was charged...

http://wokv.com/localnews/2010/03/read-the-sheriffs-statement.html

Snipped:

Harrell's name first surfaced not long after Somer's death as one of over 4,000 leads given to Team Somer in the days and weeks after the crime. As we began to scrutinize Harrell and his activities, he emerged as a person of interest. After obtaining a sample of DNA from Harrell, the tedious process of comparison analysis began. If it was apparent the public was impatient with how long the investigation was taking, just imagine the pressure on investigators. But the pressure to work fast never overshadowed the need to do it right and investigators proceeded carefully with their work.
While I know there is intense interest in knowing all of the details of the investigation and all of the evidence that has led us to this point, it is still necessary to protect the integrity of the future prosecution of this case.
I can tell you that in order to get to this point investigators have relied on statements from witnesses, admissions from the defendant, DNA technology results and evidence that Harrell was at the location on Gano Avenue when Somer disappeared along with other evidence.
I will also tell you that based on that evidence, along with our investigation, we are confident Jarred Harrell committed this crime; therefore we are bringing this murder charge today.


BBM


This is not from the media, this was a prepared statement.

Yes, I am familiar with this. It was quoted accurately in the media, from what I recall. Not too much you can do to spin this. There it is, plain and simple.

Now all they have to do is take that information and convince a jury. I am interested in that process. The investigation to this point and what comes after are the purpose of my starting the thread, discussing what may or may not occur based on what we know or do not yet know. Thanks.

Kimberlyd125
05-15-2010, 07:21 PM
Yes, I am familiar with this. It was quoted accurately in the media, from what I recall. Not too much you can do to spin this. There it is, plain and simple.

Now all they have to do is take that information and convince a jury. I am interested in that process. The investigation to this point and what comes after are the purpose of my starting the thread, discussing what may or may not occur based on what we know or do not yet know. Thanks.

Simple...what WE know...not much
what LE knows....a whole heck of a lot more.

And that's how it should be.

Just because LE has not told us EVERYTHING they have, does not mean they don't have it.

Again, if they did not think they could get a conviction, they would not have charged him. That's just that simple.

Kimberlyd125
05-15-2010, 07:25 PM
My honest opinion on this is that so many people wanted to believe a certain person, not JH, was guilty or involved in this crime so now they are having a hard time believing JH could be the murderer. No matter how much LE gives them, they will not be satisfied.

Grasping at straws and wanting info we don't have does nothing for JUSTICE FOR SOMER.

Justice will be served by LE investigating and gathering evidence against him.

He was indicted and will stand trial for this. They must have a lot of evidence IMO.

Sunshine77
05-15-2010, 07:31 PM
Yes, I am familiar with this. It was quoted accurately in the media, from what I recall. Not too much you can do to spin this. There it is, plain and simple.

Now all they have to do is take that information and convince a jury. I am interested in that process. The investigation to this point and what comes after are the purpose of my starting the thread, discussing what may or may not occur based on what we know or do not yet know. Thanks.

I guess that is why I'm confused by many of your posts on this thread. You seems to understand that only so much has been released, but still press on in questioning many aspects of the case that we don't have answers to yet. I, too, am very interested in the investigative process, others who may have been ruled out, and what evidence points to JH besides the scant details already given. But, until more is released, it just seems we are rehashing the same points over and over (not that I see anything wrong with this, as I'm participating in it lol). Maybe closer to or after his next court, more will be released.

JBean
05-15-2010, 09:28 PM
closed til further notice. Please break the convo out into separate topic discussion. This looks like it is a general discussion thread, but I have not had a chance to review and will do so shortly.
BBL

JBean
05-15-2010, 09:38 PM
I'm not being rude here, but all of this has been discussed over and over and hashed out and rehashed in 40 something threads.
I'm not real sure what this thread is for.

I was under the impression that when Somer got a sub forum, that we could open a thread on a specific topic and discuss that topic.

So far on this thread we have discussed at least 10 topics. Maybe we need to open a thread for each topic?

I thought that was how it worked. So everything would be more organized.This post is exactly correct. We do not have general discussion threads anymore, but rather an entire forum. What this means is that each thread should be topic specific and posters should stay on that topic.
When the trial starts or as existing information develops or more is revealed, it is nearly impossible to pull the hard work and research that has already been done by other members if it is not broken into specific threads.

if there is a topic that already has a thread and you would like to continue the discussion, bump an old thread, or if no discussion on a specific topic exists, please start a thread. New members may want to discuss old information, so all they have to do is find a thread and continue the discussion.

Thanks.

JBean
05-15-2010, 09:42 PM
Threadiquette ask your questions here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

JBean
05-16-2010, 02:25 PM
Seems to be some confusion on this thread, so maybe I can help.
The thread was reported to me by another moderator the first day it was opened because it apeared to be a general discussion thread, which we don;t have anymore.
Unfortunately i was moving and without internet so I let it go until I could get to it. In the mean time there were a handful of alerts from different members on this thread, so I realized I needed to make time.
This thread is a general discussion thread. We have a forum now so we don't have general discussion threads because that is what we try to get away from when a forum is created.
I am not speaking to any specific topic on this thread,but if there is a specific topic you would like to discuss, please start a thread with that topic in the title and that is what members will discuss.
I linked the threadiquette thread which reviews this and that thread is located at the top of this forum.

I know transitioning from a single thread to a forum can be confusing at times, but please take a moment to review other forums for format. When the trial starts, you will be so happy to be able to retrieve all the hard work done by the many posters on this forum by searching topic specific threads.
Thanks.