View Full Version : MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, Abducted 28 April 2010 - #5
spamelope
05-18-2010, 06:41 PM
FWIW, 10 years from now this thread might be tucked away in the archives or buried in so many online hits it may be hard to find.
JMO
Oh,Cubby, I'm not blaming WS for this. No offense to Puf, but anyone could have transcribed this, and probably has. I just mean that now it's out there, kinda hard to get the details back in the bag. I'm sure it's on other sites, I don't know, I haven't looked and won't look. Heck, maybe the little girl would look at the notes on the pictures of the news and could have done it herself. I'm disturbed that this was made public in the first place. There is no reason for it. Please know that my distress isn't because it's on here, per se. Your family is supposed to protect you, not make sordid tales available for the public to slather over. This child was failed miserably by the adults in her life.
crystalgenie
05-18-2010, 06:44 PM
FWIW, 10 years from now this thread might be tucked away in the archives or buried in so many online hits it may be hard to find.
JMO
You are right until the poor child goes and googles her mother and fasther or one of her friends googles them. If the statements on sexual abuse are true then at least she will know her mother was trying to fight for her but if they aren't and they were just part of a bitter divorce... That will be devastating and a lot of anger will be directed towards the party that released all of this to the media. :shakehead:
BeanE
05-18-2010, 06:46 PM
(FROM PUF'S TIMELINE)
November 2008 - Venus is charged with domestic violence, but several months later pleads no contest to disturbing the peace.
If Puf's timeline is accurate, and I'm confident it is, VS was charged with DV only about a year and half ago and the charges were plead down several months later...either way, well INSIDE of your two years. Interestingly, DS more than likely would have had to agree with or even request that the court reduce her DV charge down to the lesser charge.
I never said that a protective order means nothing, I said it is not evidence of abuse, because it is possible to get a PPO against someone who has literally done nothing to you if you present a compelling enough story to the judge who is deciding on the application. PPO is a one-sided process isn't it? How many of the people on the other side of the PPO come in and assist the "victim" with getting the PPO approved against them? Like none? So I'd say it's pretty one-sided.
I'm fine with a year and a half (even if it does take longer to type lol). What proof is there of Venus having been abusive toward Doug in the past year and a half?
The accused in our system of justice have full rein to represent themselves or be represented to defend themselves. There's nothing one-sided about that. Both sides can speak. Both sides can present testimony and evidence and witnesses.
One-sided to me would be the accused marched off to the gallows or firing squad with no opportunity to defend themselves.
(And just for the record, I've certainly never contended that a PPO is *proof* of abuse - to me, it is an *indication* that there has been abuse.)
trigger
05-18-2010, 06:46 PM
Hi trigger! I know that LE plans on searching that lake where the non-poi was at once the water level goes down. I don't know of any legitimate searches that are sanctioned by LE going on. They are being very, very quiet.
Where is TES? All LE or the family has to do is ask for them to come. Does anyone know how Tim's wife is?
Hi Spamelope :wave: Thats right I forgot about the lake. I wish we had some news.
Im getting dinner ready...BBL
Oh I'll be here all night....No work for few days...:bananapartyhat:
spamelope
05-18-2010, 06:46 PM
I think that something needs to be clarified. WARNING--the FOLLOWING IS GRAPHIC:
The note is nearly impossible to read, and I was only able to read it after screencapping the part I could read, putting it into photoshop, turning it into a greyscale image, and then adjusting the brightness contrast to make the ink stand out. Also, the screencapped image--the right margin was off of the page, so where it says "hard and little _____" the words after little are missing on the right margin.
The child could have said that it was "hard and little bumps were on it." We don't know, because that part of the sentence ran of the page. Where the words ran off the page, I placed underscores and ellipses.
Then everyone would just be saying that he has genital herpes, now too. No offense, Puf. It's not the gory details that bother me so much, as it is an invasion of this child's privacy for those documents to have been handed over to the press. Can you imagine what's being said around those girls even now? I know it slipped that they've seen the news about this case. I hope they are appointed a GAL soon. This is terrible for them.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 06:55 PM
Another point.
There were pages and pages of handwritten notes that were on the video, but the notes were stacked and you could only see the top page.
We don't know what Venus did after her daughter told her this. We don't know if her daughter is indeed in counseling.
We do know, according to Venus, that she was told about the molestation on 2/22/10. There are only six more days in February. Sometime between 2/22/10 and 2/28/10, Venus left NN and arrived in Colon and filed for and received an order of protection from the court.
She did all that in six days (at the most). In my opinion, that means that she took her daughter seriously.
We don't know if her daughter was placed in counseling. We don't know what Venus did for her daughter after that conversation in the car at school drop-off. All we know is that her daughter told her about the alleged molestation, and Venus, sometime within six days, took her children to Colon, filed for a protective order, and pursued charges of molestation against her husband.
Whatever else she did to help her child through the alleged ordeal, we don't know and it's reckless to guess.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 06:59 PM
Then everyone would just be saying that he has genital herpes, now too. No offense, Puf. It's not the gory details that bother me so much, as it is an invasion of this child's privacy for those documents to have been handed over to the press. Can you imagine what's being said around those girls even now? I know it slipped that they've seen the news about this case. I hope they are appointed a GAL soon. This is terrible for them.
I would guess that the children have already been appointed a GAL, especially with the custodial parent missing and considering the potential for the only person of interest to attempt to gain custody.
There is a record in the courts of the alleged molestation. Additionally, the news reports also stated from early on in this case that the reason Venus left NN is because she believed that her daughter had been molested. So it was out there before her father handed over the documents.
I feel awful for the children--they will know all of this in the future, all the allegations about their parents fighting in the front yard, about multiple divorce filings, everything.
Most of all, they know that their mother is missing and their father is the only person of interest in her disappearance. That has to rip their hearts out right now. These children no longer have a mother. It's sad any way you look at it.
spamelope
05-18-2010, 07:03 PM
On the other hand, for all we know, DS felt their reconciliation wasn't working out and he asked her to leave. I just don't think we know what happened, and there are two sides to every story.
There is a record in the courts of the alleged molestation. Additionally, the news reports also stated from early on in this case that the reason Venus left NN is because she believed that her daughter had been molested. So it was out there before her father handed over the documents.
But that info most likely came from the same source as the notes. Unfounded family court records are most like sealed to protect the right to privacy that the children should have.
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 07:04 PM
Another point.
There were pages and pages of handwritten notes that were on the video, but the notes were stacked and you could only see the top page.
We don't know what Venus did after her daughter told her this. We don't know if her daughter is indeed in counseling.
We do know, according to Venus, that she was told about the molestation on 2/22/10. There are only six more days in February. Sometime between 2/22/10 and 2/28/10, Venus left NN and arrived in Colon and filed for and received an order of protection from the court.
She did all that in six days (at the most). In my opinion, that means that she took her daughter seriously.
We don't know if her daughter was placed in counseling. We don't know what Venus did for her daughter after that conversation in the car at school drop-off. All we know is that her daughter told her about the alleged molestation, and Venus, sometime within six days, took her children to Colon, filed for a protective order, and pursued charges of molestation against her husband.
Whatever else she did to help her child through the alleged ordeal, we don't know and it's reckless to guess.
Thank you for clarifying the dates as to when the allegation by the child was made and the course of action Venus took. That really makes a lot of difference and I feel foolish for making some of the comments I have made.
Clearly, Venus took her daughter seriously and took the appropriate steps to make certain no further incidents would occur and I applaud her for that.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 07:06 PM
On the other hand, for all we know, DS felt their reconciliation wasn't working out and he asked her to leave. I just don't think we know what happened, and there are two sides to every story.
Definitely possible.
Doug filed for divorce for the third time on 3/30/10, if I remember the exact date correctly... the end of March anyway.
I do not know if Venus had filed in Michigan by that time.
The family were only in Virginia for six months before Venus came home, if I added up the dates correctly...so I guess that Michigan would still be considered the state with judicial authority over the divorce case. Don't know for sure.
Amster
05-18-2010, 07:09 PM
He wasn't charged for molesting his daughter. Does that mean nothing?? Venus made the accusation so it must be true? Was she given temp. custody and the RO because of her accusation? LE had to investigate? No wonder some women use this in their custody dispute! I know why....and it is disgusting.
Cubby
05-18-2010, 07:18 PM
Oh,Cubby, I'm not blaming WS for this. No offense to Puf, but anyone could have transcribed this, and probably has. I just mean that now it's out there, kinda hard to get the details back in the bag. I'm sure it's on other sites, I don't know, I haven't looked and won't look. Heck, maybe the little girl would look at the notes on the pictures of the news and could have done it herself. I'm disturbed that this was made public in the first place. There is no reason for it. Please know that my distress isn't because it's on here, per se. Your family is supposed to protect you, not make sordid tales available for the public to slather over. This child was failed miserably by the adults in her life.
True. However unfortunate children are exposed to bitter ugly custody battles between their parents more than we'd like. This info just happens to be making it to the net because the mother is missing. :(
BeanE
05-18-2010, 07:19 PM
Unfounded family court records are most like sealed to protect the right to privacy that the children should have.
BBM. Unfounded and insufficient evidence are two different findings. This was insufficient evidence, not unfounded.
It would be awful if this molestation did take place, for this child to grow up, Google, and see that her claims were deemed unfounded.
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 07:21 PM
I am a bit confused. How much time transpired between when Venus and Doug moved to Virginia and when the child supposedly told Venus about seeing the dangling thing between her dad's legs?
And, do we know exactly why Venus was awarded temporary custody of the girls? Was the order pending an investigation due to allegations of sexual molestation on the petition? Was it due to allegations of domestic violence on the part of Doug?
Was it the order made Ex Parte or did Doug file a response in which he provided documentation of Venus's arrest record for domestic violence?
Do we know when Venus's Protective Order expires?
Do we know if another hearing was/is scheduled?
Do we know when Venus's temporary custody of the girls expired?
There are emergency protective orders that are granted and in effect until the date of the hearing during which the judge determines if a "Permanent Protective Order" is warranted.
By "Permanent Protective Order", I mean an order made after a hearing that usually expires in two to three years after the order is put into effect.
Cubby
05-18-2010, 07:25 PM
Definitely possible.
Doug filed for divorce for the third time on 3/30/10, if I remember the exact date correctly... the end of March anyway.
I do not know if Venus had filed in Michigan by that time.
The family were only in Virginia for six months before Venus came home, if I added up the dates correctly...so I guess that Michigan would still be considered the state with judicial authority over the divorce case. Don't know for sure.
BBM. Changing the topic a little bit, but this would be important regarding which state and county has jurisdiction over the custody issues. Earlier on I linked jurisdiction info from both MI and VA and both had info stating a 6 month residency requirement to establish which state/county had jurisdiction. I wonder then, if it was exactly 6 months? and whether upon her moving back to MI she moved back to the county where the family originally resided. Just thinking outloud.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 07:34 PM
At the end of an investigation, CPS will issue a report with one of three determinations:
Ruled Out means that the investigation showed that abuse did NOT occur. For example, CPS may have learned that the alleged abuser was out of town when the abuse occurred.
Indicated means that there is “credible evidence” that the abuse did occur.
Unsubstantiated, arguably the trickiest term, means that CPS could not determine what happened. In other words, there was “an insufficient amount of evidence” to make finding either way. It does NOT mean that the abuse did not happen, merely that at the time of the CPS investigation, they could not make a finding. Many times, more evidence will come to light later and abuse can be proved in another type of case, such as the family or criminal case.
Peace Orders and Protective Orders are types of emergency orders to protect someone from certain types of crimes, including sexual offenses:
Both have the basic process:
1. A victim, or parent or guardian if the victim is a minor, goes to court and completes a form under oath explaining to the judge what has happened. If the courts are closed, the victim may go to a Commissioner’s office, which are open twenty-four hours a day.
2. If the judge or Commissioner finds that there is reasonable cause to believe that the acts occurred, a temporary order is issued. If the victim went to a Commissioner, an interim order is issued and a hearing for a temporary order is set within a few days.
3. If child sexual abuse is alleged, CPS will conduct an emergency investigation.
4. The temporary order is served on the other party.
5. After the temporary order is served, the Court holds a hearing. The victim must prove what happened. This typically includes testifying against the perpetrator.
6. The Court decides whether to issue a longer order.
**********************
Much more, if anyone wants to learn about judicial and CPS processes after the allegation is made:
www.mcasa.org/uploads/docs/CSA_Booklet_for_Professionals.doc
Cubby
05-18-2010, 07:34 PM
BBM. Unfounded and insufficient evidence are two different findings. This was insufficient evidence, not unfounded.
It would be awful if this molestation did take place, for this child to grow up, Google, and see that her claims were deemed unfounded.
and it would be just as awful if the man is innocent for his daughter to see her mother made ugly unfounded allegations against her father. I would consider insufficient evidence in the same light as the allegations are unproven. In other words, it is impossible to declare someone innocent but we do go by the assumption innocent until proven guilty.
This man has not been convicted of the crime of molesting his children and as I understand it, at least as previously posted, LE investigate the allegations of sexual abuse and did not find enough evidence to charge him. how is this different than a rumor? Imo, this IS an allegation NOT fact until LE finds at least enough evidence to convict, no?
JMO
ETA: I should have said charge him with the crime rather than convict.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 07:34 PM
BBM. Changing the topic a little bit, but this would be important regarding which state and county has jurisdiction over the custody issues. Earlier on I linked jurisdiction info from both MI and VA and both had info stating a 6 month residency requirement to establish which state/county had jurisdiction. I wonder then, if it was exactly 6 months? and whether upon her moving back to MI she moved back to the county where the family originally resided. Just thinking outloud.
Jurisdiction in divorces?
spamelope
05-18-2010, 07:41 PM
Even though it appears they were in VA for 6 mos, which would make that the state with jurisdiction, MI would probably be considered their home state since they would have more records, family and friends there. VA would gladly hand the reins over to MI.
Cubby
05-18-2010, 07:45 PM
Jurisdiction in divorces?
It was regarding which county had jurisdiction over hearing a custody case.
I'm back and forth cooking... so give me a little bit and I will find the links again.
thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 07:46 PM
BBM. Unfounded and insufficient evidence are two different findings. This was insufficient evidence, not unfounded.
It would be awful if this molestation did take place, for this child to grow up, Google, and see that her claims were deemed unfounded.
Please link to where this claim was made by the daughter. I thought that the only claim that was made was made by VS. thanks!
thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 07:49 PM
and it would be just as awful if the man is innocent for his daughter to see her mother made ugly unfounded allegations against her father. I would consider insufficient evidence in the same light as the allegations are unproven. In other words, it is impossible to declare someone innocent but we do go by the assumption innocent until proven guilty.
This man has not been convicted of the crime of molesting his children and as I understand it, at least as previously posted, LE investigate the allegations of sexual abuse and did not find enough evidence to charge him. how is this different than a rumor? Imo, this IS an allegation NOT fact until LE finds at least enough evidence to convict, no?
JMO
ETA: I should have said charge him with the crime rather than convict.
Amen Cubby!!! Finally...some of what this country was founded on...
thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 07:52 PM
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/insufficient+evidence
insufficient evidence noun a negligible amount of evidence, absence of sufficient evidence, bereft of eviience, deficient amount of evidence, devoid of sufficient proof, failing proof, inadequate amount of persuasive facts, inadequate confirmation, inadequate facts to prove the point in question, inadequate means of proof, inadequate proof, inadequate proof of facts, inadequate substantiation, incomplete evidence, insufficient admitted testimony, insufficient body of facts, insufficient corroboration, insuffiiient facts to establish the point in issue, insufficient means of proving a fact, insufficient proof at trial, insufficient veriiication, lacking proof, lean on evidence, meager degree of evidence, paltry amount of evidence, scant testimony, slim proof, sparse proof, thin evidence, weak on evidence
BeanE
05-18-2010, 07:53 PM
This man has not been convicted of the crime of molesting his children and as I understand it, at least as previously posted, LE investigate the allegations of sexual abuse and did not find enough evidence to charge him. how is this different than a rumor? Imo, this IS an allegation NOT fact until LE finds at least enough evidence to convict, no?
JMO
ETA: I should have said charge him with the crime rather than convict.
Exactly. He has not been convicted. He has not been charged. The finding was insufficient evidence - basically, they just don't know if he did or not.
A rumor is information that is not substantiated. In this case, I think that would be if someone stated as fact that Doug molested his daughter, with no means by which to prove it was true.
Yes, it's an allegation unless and until it can be proven that it happened.
Cubby
05-18-2010, 07:55 PM
Here is a portion of my post from thread #4 regarding jurisdiction for child custody matters. I don't know how long they lived where so I can't guess which state/county would have jurisdiction, but here are the links....
-----------------what follows is part of my post from thread #4-----
The Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction And Enforcement Act prevents parents from jurisdiction shopping and clearly defines the home state which has jurisdiction over custodial matters.
http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes/toc2000000/toc20000000007000010000000.html (http://law.justia.com/virginia/codes/toc2000000/toc20000000007000010000000.html)
The above link is for the state of Virginia.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(julu2dmkr2yzzi45cec2wy23))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-722-1204 (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(julu2dmkr2yzzi45cec2wy23))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-722-1204)
The above link for Michigan indicates they can have jurisdiction:
Sec. 204.
(1) A court of this state has temporary emergency jurisdiction if the child is present in this state and the child has been abandoned or it is necessary in an emergency to protect the child because the child, or a sibling or parent of the child, is subjected to or threatened with mistreatment or abuse.
BeanE
05-18-2010, 07:56 PM
Please link to where this claim was made by the daughter. I thought that the only claim that was made was made by VS. thanks!
Please link to a claim of molestation made by a child directly to the courts or the public without an adult conveying it.
BeanE
05-18-2010, 07:58 PM
Amen Cubby!!! Finally...some of what this country was founded on...
Are you referring to the concept of presumption of innocence?
spamelope
05-18-2010, 08:05 PM
Are you referring to the concept of presumption of innocence?
I kinda think that phrase went out the window on day 1 of this case. MOO
SuziQ
05-18-2010, 08:42 PM
I don't want to get in on the he said she said argument that's going on except to say it sounds like motive for murder to me.
cluciano63
05-18-2010, 09:03 PM
I presume that this alleged motive is why LE was so quick to name DS as POI right from the start, despite the fact that he was supposed to be hundreds of miles away? I don't recall too many cases when a husband was named so quickly, even when he was on scene with a dead wife next to him. I have to think that LE took the info from Venus' parents, leading them to name him the only POI at once, as this happened long before any signs of possible physical evidence turned up.
I just hope they kept or are keeping an open mind, despite saying he is the only POI, otherwise they will have a very cold trail if he is somehow ruled out as having any guilt in this abduction/possible murder.
believe09
05-18-2010, 09:18 PM
Any man who lives in the household with a little girl who doesn't lock the bathroom or bedroom door so she can't walk in and see his penis is not being the gentleman and responsible adult I would want around my little daughter.
Granted, people are raised differently to the point some adults walk around the house naked in front of their children and take them to nude beaches and nudest colonies.
I, myself, would never have a relationship with a man who would be careless enough to allow my little daughter to see his penis! That is just how I am. I never saw a man's penis until I was an appropriate age and in an appropriate situation.
Given that, if my daughter asked me what that thing hanging between my boyfriend's legs was, I would immediately ask her when and where she saw it.
By red flag, I meant something that would immediately get my attention and prompt me to immediately get to the bottom of the matter, not simply avoid discussing it because I didn't want to go there.
I get that this is your yardstick. I get that you would immediately run to the ground the time and place where your child would have seen a private part. That is absolutely your right and your choice.
It is others right and choice to handle issues regarding nudity and sexuality differently. Neither is criminal.
There is no fine line with criminal-you cross a line or you do not.
I dont want the thread to get mired in this topic-I am of the opinion that insufficient evidence does not get DS off the hook only because I am familiar with what that term means in a legal setting-it does not say he did not do it, simply that there was not enough evidence to warrant continuing to investigate or charging him. Maybe it is another damned if you do, damned if you dont situation for this case.
I have seen a lot of valid arguements raised that the grandfather releasing the notes could be construed as an agenda, and that he did not take his grandchild into consideration when he did. I do not know about agenda, but I can believe the second part...I think that it is a fair assessment that he should not have used the notes unless he was prompted to release it by LE as an attempt at causing a reaction in their suspect...like to try and get him to release a statement regarding the allegations....if that makes any sense.
believe09
05-18-2010, 09:21 PM
I think we have all posted on threads where the presumption of innocence argument has been presented...the glory of a discussion board is that it is not a trial by jury and we are not judges except in our own minds and hearts. We are free to say convict him because I dont like his shoe size...as long as we are willing to support our reasoning!
cluciano63
05-18-2010, 09:24 PM
I doubt very much LE would want the notes released by the family. They are waiting for physical evidence in order to make an arrest, IMO, and too busy searching for Venus to be playing games with this guy. They know where he is, what he is doing and only need one piece of evidence that provides means and opportunity to back up motive and he will be charged, if the receipt, blood, tire tracks, etc....provide a match. I think the grandfather just did not think this through and let his emotions dictate his decision to have this info go public. His hatred for DS seems to top everything else. JMO
BeanE
05-18-2010, 09:28 PM
I don't want to get in on the he said she said argument that's going on except to say it sounds like motive for murder to me.
What sounds like motive? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Cubby
05-18-2010, 09:31 PM
Please link to a claim of molestation made by a child directly to the courts or the public without an adult conveying it.
Respectfully, I think the poster asking the question meant did the child disclose to anyone other than her mother?
We are going to go back and forth here on whether the allegations are founded or not, and whether Venus made these claims because she was truly concerned or vengence. At this point in time we really do not know. Either way, I don't see us arriving at an answer unless LE comes out and states Doug was cleared as a suspect in their investigation into the allegations of sexual abuse against his child, or he is charged with the crime of sexually abusing his child.
However, either of the above scenario's -founded or not- could be motive for murder. (as was previously posted)
JMO
BeanE
05-18-2010, 09:34 PM
I presume that this alleged motive is why LE was so quick to name DS as POI right from the start, despite the fact that he was supposed to be hundreds of miles away? I don't recall too many cases when a husband was named so quickly, even when he was on scene with a dead wife next to him. I have to think that LE took the info from Venus' parents, leading them to name him the only POI at once, as this happened long before any signs of possible physical evidence turned up.
I just hope they kept or are keeping an open mind, despite saying he is the only POI, otherwise they will have a very cold trail if he is somehow ruled out as having any guilt in this abduction/possible murder.
I'm not sure what motive you mean.
I really don't think LE just listened to the parents and decided that Doug was their POI. I think they probably collected evidence and other information to see if what the parents said was supported, and to see what else they could figure out.
I can't recall when Doug was named POI. Was it before LE collected any evidence or spoke with anyone other Venus' parents? Was it the day Venus disappeared?
You say it was before any physical evidence was collected. When were the tire track and footprint and tarp cover found?
I'm being lazy. :) I'm sorry. :) I'll go look it up and update my post.
ETA: April 26 - Okay I believe this is the very first news story on this case. As of that time, Doug wasn't named a POI, but LE was saying they thought he abducted Venus. This was published at about 5pm that day.
That may seem unusual, but I see it all the time. I search every day for cases to post in the Missing forum as well as the Crimes in the News forum, and I read a LOT of news stories. It's frequent that LE is immediately looking for the significant other, although I haven't put together any stats on it.
April 27 - Found news stories from this date that footprint found. That doesn't seem like a long time to me for physical evidence. I didn't find anything yet on when they found them. I just would think they had their CSI guys out there on April 26 looking around for stuff like that. And as of April 29th, see below.
April 29 - LE says that nothing they'd found to this date changed their minds to think Venus had left voluntarily.
“We do not believe she left of her own free will and so far nothing that we’ve turned up has changed that opinion
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 09:41 PM
In my opinion: DS gets totally pissed off. Of all the nerve for Venus, who he's had full control over, humiliated and controlled by filing for a divorce several times, threatened, manipulated, issolated from friends and family, had arrested for domestic violence, broken down and humiliated, has the nerve to file for a protective order, accuse him of molestation, actually musters up the strength to file for and wins temporary custody of the girls and a protective order and moves away leaving everything he thought was important to her behind.
I can just hear him: "You leave me? Where are you going to go? I'm not letting you take the truck! You can't make the payments! You can't afford to support the kids! You can't even get a damn job! Look at you! You're pathetic! You are NOTHING without me! You leave me? Yah right! You'll never leave me! How will you survive!"
I can hear Venus say: "I don't need anything! I don't need my clothes, my truck, nothing! And I do have a place to go and I will go! You just watch!"
Now he's going to have to pay child support up the butt. That was NOT the plan. He wanted to get the children away from Venus and make her pay child support up the butt, make her miserable.
His plan didn't work. Venus suddenly has all the power. DS is NOT used to that. He stews and stews and gets madder and madder and the plot starts to unfold. He embraces it fully. It takes control over him and he is driven to follow through with his plan. And he did.
That is just my opinion, of course!
SuziQ
05-18-2010, 09:42 PM
What sounds like motive? Sorry, I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Either way you cut it, false accusations or not could be motive for murder.
Amster
05-18-2010, 09:52 PM
What proof is there that Venus was isolated from friends and family?
Never mind....
BeanE
05-18-2010, 09:55 PM
Either way you cut it, false accusations or not could be motive for murder.
OH! Okay lol. Sorry I should have realized that's what you were referring to. I'm getting to my "I'm so sleepy I've entered the 'can't think' zone" stage of the evening.
cluciano63
05-18-2010, 09:58 PM
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html
this is dated April 28 and already police suspect DS...this was before anything was found..."police initially said that...they believed her husband had abducted her..."
Natal
05-18-2010, 10:27 PM
In my opinion: DS gets totally pissed off. Of all the nerve for Venus, who he's had full control over, humiliated and controlled by filing for a divorce several times, threatened, manipulated, issolated from friends and family, had arrested for domestic violence, broken down and humiliated, has the nerve to file for a protective order, accuse him of molestation, actually musters up the strength to file for and wins temporary custody of the girls and a protective order and moves away leaving everything he thought was important to her behind.
I can just hear him: "You leave me? Where are you going to go? I'm not letting you take the truck! You can't make the payments! You can't afford to support the kids! You can't even get a damn job! Look at you! You're pathetic! You are NOTHING without me! You leave me? Yah right! You'll never leave me! How will you survive!"
I can hear Venus say: "I don't need anything! I don't need my clothes, my truck, nothing! And I do have a place to go and I will go! You just watch!"
Now he's going to have to pay child support up the butt. That was NOT the plan. He wanted to get the children away from Venus and make her pay child support up the butt, make her miserable.
His plan didn't work. Venus suddenly has all the power. DS is NOT used to that. He stews and stews and gets madder and madder and the plot starts to unfold. He embraces it fully. It takes control over him and he is driven to follow through with his plan. And he did.
That is just my opinion, of course!
I don't agree. These people have been hurting each other for a long time, and if DS did drive all the way over there and do it then it must have been something recent that caused it. The only recent thing we know about is the temporary custody arrangement, where DS is supposed to get nightly phone calls to the kids. My guess is that the folk at Colon were being as unhelpful as they possibly could in that regard and the frustration is what put DS over the edge.
I am also thinking that if he did do this, he didn't ambush her, but called her when he got there and she came out to speak to him. It is possible that all this accusation/PPO stuff was largely for show and she didn't really fear him, so came out alone without telling her father, not realizing that this time was different and it was for real.
Anyway, that is another potential scenario for the mix.
BeanE
05-18-2010, 10:27 PM
Respectfully, I think the poster asking the question meant did the child disclose to anyone other than her mother?
We are going to go back and forth here on whether the allegations are founded or not, and whether Venus made these claims because she was truly concerned or vengence. At this point in time we really do not know. Either way, I don't see us arriving at an answer unless LE comes out and states Doug was cleared as a suspect in their investigation into the allegations of sexual abuse against his child, or he is charged with the crime of sexually abusing his child.
However, either of the above scenario's -founded or not- could be motive for murder. (as was previously posted)
JMO
I think the poster asked specifically for support for the daughter claiming herself she was molested versus Venus claiming it - no other persons were mentioned or alluded to.
Yes, I keep trying to point out that we simply don't know whether or not the allegations are founded. I don't think we're going to know any time soon. I'm not sure people will stop going back and forth on it even if Doug is cleared by LE or charged. In fact, if he's charged, I think people may well go back and forth even more.
I just don't want it to be lost that there may be a little girl who was molested. The child always has to come first, because it is the child who is defenseless. If there is a child who is in need, there is no political agenda that is of greater need.
Yes, I agree, founded or not, allegations of that sort could be motive for murder. I don't think much in terms of motive for murder myself any more. I've seen too many cases where there is seemingly no motive. These days I tend to just look more at the circumstances of the event, what happened, what's the evidence, what are the indications, what are the probabilities, etc. I guess when it comes down to it, I don't much care usually what the motive is. I've been emotionally worn down to the point of just they either did it or they didn't.
BeanE
05-18-2010, 10:34 PM
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html
this is dated April 28 and already police suspect DS...this was before anything was found..."police initially said that...they believed her husband had abducted her..."
I updated my post. I found articles saying the footprint had been found April 27. That is, the articles were April 27. I didn't find anything saying when they'd been found. I just think they probably had the CSI guys out there April 26 and found the signs of a struggle, footprint on the tank, tire track, etc right away. Just IMO - I don't have a supporting link yet.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 10:38 PM
For AmandaReckonwith...
I just saw that you asked for the video from which I made the transcription...sorry to just get this link to you.
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 10:38 PM
I don't agree. These people have been hurting each other for a long time, and if DS did drive all the way over there and do it then it must have been something recent that caused it. The only recent thing we know about is the temporary custody arrangement, where DS is supposed to get nightly phone calls to the kids. My guess is that the folk at Colon were being as unhelpful as they possibly could in that regard and the frustration is what put DS over the edge.
I am also thinking that if he did do this, he didn't ambush her, but called her when he got there and she came out to speak to him. It is possible that all this accusation/PPO stuff was largely for show and she didn't really fear him, so came out alone without telling her father, not realizing that this time was different and it was for real.
Anyway, that is another potential scenario for the mix.
I have thought it was very likely that Doug somehow contacted Venus at the last minute to let her know he was outside with the truck, that he'd driven it all the way to Michigan as a surprise for her so she'd have transportation of her own or that he'd brought some of her belongings and some money for her.
It just seems to be too much of a coincidence that the guy crouching behind the truck, if that was indeed Doug or whomever abducted Venus, was so lucky that Venus just happened to come out of the house at the right time.
However, if Venus was NOT allowed to smoke in the house and Doug knew that, he knew she'd be coming out every 15 minutes or so to have a smoke. But, why take her in broad daylight? That's what is so strange to me.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 10:39 PM
Doug's father said on Nancy Grace that it was the fingerprint tech who found the footprint on the tank, while he was dusting. I believe that it was found on the day she went missing, and, like you Bean, I don't have a link.
BeanE
05-18-2010, 10:39 PM
I don't agree. These people have been hurting each other for a long time, and if DS did drive all the way over there and do it then it must have been something recent that caused it. The only recent thing we know about is the temporary custody arrangement, where DS is supposed to get nightly phone calls to the kids. My guess is that the folk at Colon were being as unhelpful as they possibly could in that regard and the frustration is what put DS over the edge.
Has something come out supporting that there was a problem with the nightly phone calls?
cluciano63
05-18-2010, 10:43 PM
I was thinking she may have received a call at 7:10 AM (the earliest time they believe she was abducted) that led her outside, but if she had, surely they would be able to trace the number it came from and then the source of the call?
blackdog
05-18-2010, 10:57 PM
How could he possibly talk someone else into killing his wife: just drive fourteen yours; wait behind the wood pile, with a tarp; and maybe she will put the mail out.
cluciano63
05-18-2010, 11:00 PM
I think if he did this and had help, it had to be someone very close to him who lived in Michigan, but just my opinion...
spamelope
05-18-2010, 11:04 PM
I think we have all posted on threads where the presumption of innocence argument has been presented...the glory of a discussion board is that it is not a trial by jury and we are not judges except in our own minds and hearts. We are free to say convict him because I dont like his shoe size...as long as we are willing to support our reasoning!
Ohh, I think we are allowed to voice our opinions and name someone guilty from day one. We are a discussion board. I am not at all bothered by what we say or who we judge. What bothers me in this case is that LE seems to have forgotten that DS is presumed innocent.
Natal
05-18-2010, 11:06 PM
Has something come out supporting that there was a problem with the nightly phone calls?
It is a hypothesis.
To answer your question, no, but conventional wisdom has it that in bitter divorces the two halves make things as difficult as possible for each other for no rational reason. This happens all the time. I don't see why this case would be any different, it is obvious from all the legal filings that neither of these two sported angel wings so why would you expect noble intentions on either part? If the Colon folk really believed that he was physically abusive to Venus and sexually abusing the kids do you honestly think they would have been making these calls easy for him?
And something must have set him off, if he did this. Ask yourself this, what reason might someone have for doing that? Would they just have a random psychotic break? The general sort of thing going on was what their life had been like for the last three years or so, the last week wasn't any different, so why would someone hypothetically suddenly drive a quarter of the way across the country and back again? Just because now was the time? I don't think so, there would have to be something to prompt it, and the only thing we know about that could be consistent with that would be the phone calls.
I'm more interested in why people do the things they do, and I've seen enough in life to know that there is no black and white, only shades of grey. Real people don't come with wings or horns.
blackdog
05-18-2010, 11:07 PM
I think if he did this and had help, it had to be someone very close to him who lived in Michigan, but just my opinion...
I don't think he started out with the idea of killing hear. I think he got himself worked up on long the drive."I'll show her"
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 11:08 PM
What proof is there that Venus was isolated from friends and family?
Never mind....
I was saying that because they moved 14 hours away to Virginia. Abusers often do that so there is no longer family and friends for the wife/girlfriend to run to.
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 11:09 PM
I don't think he started out with the idea of killing hear. I think he got himself worked up on long the drive."I'll show her"
What about the Walmart receipt for the gloves, hat, shovel and tarp? That's premeditated murder, if indeed he purchased those items and used them the way we think he did.
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 11:12 PM
How could he possibly talk someone else into killing his wife: just drive fourteen hours; wait behind the wood pile, with a tarp; and maybe she will put the mail out.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif This has to be the funniest post I've read on Websleuths since I joined in December of 2009! Thank you ! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif
PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 11:16 PM
I was thinking she may have received a call at 7:10 AM (the earliest time they believe she was abducted) that led her outside, but if she had, surely they would be able to trace the number it came from and then the source of the call?
Do I remember reading they found a wrapper from a throw away cell phone in the truck?
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:19 PM
How could he possibly talk someone else into killing his wife: just drive fourteen yours; wait behind the wood pile, with a tarp; and maybe she will put the mail out.
What bothers me the most is that MSP has the answers to most of the questions we are asking... they just aren't sharing!
Need news!
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:20 PM
Do I remember reading they found a wrapper from a throw away cell phone in the truck?
No, Pickie...
I think there was a mistake in reading the warrant. It said "cellophane," and it looked like "cell phone," so I think someone earlier made that mistake, which was perfectly understandable. Cop writing is almost as bad as doctor writing!
blackdog
05-18-2010, 11:20 PM
The stuff in the truck is confusing; he had lots of time to clean it out, no matter who used it.
Natal
05-18-2010, 11:24 PM
Do I remember reading they found a wrapper from a throw away cell phone in the truck?
No, they found a cellophane wrapper in the ash-tray. Cellophane is that stuff they package candy bars in.
Natal
05-18-2010, 11:26 PM
What bothers me the most is that MSP has the answers to most of the questions we are asking... they just aren't sharing!
Need news!
Heh....and they aren't going to share either.
I think the next news item will be when/if they find her, dead or alive.
BeanE
05-18-2010, 11:31 PM
How could he possibly talk someone else into killing his wife: just drive fourteen yours; wait behind the wood pile, with a tarp; and maybe she will put the mail out.
$$$$$$$$$
Natal
05-18-2010, 11:31 PM
The stuff in the truck is confusing; he had lots of time to clean it out, no matter who used it.
The only potentially incriminating things found in the truck was the possible blood stain and the reciept. The blood stain might well be his, or very old, and we don't know enough about his alibi to know if the reciept is incriminating or not.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:33 PM
The only potentially incriminating things found in the truck was the possible blood stain and the reciept. The blood stain might well be his, or very old, and we don't know enough about his alibi to know if the reciept is incriminating or not.
And possibly the boots, if they have soil content on them of the type in the driveway at the McCombs.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:33 PM
Heh....and they aren't going to share either.
I think the next news item will be when/if they find her, dead or alive.
I agree... or if someone's arrested.
blackdog
05-18-2010, 11:36 PM
The blood stain in the truck was on the passenger side door handle. Is that enough to make an arrest?
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:42 PM
The blood stain in the truck was on the passenger side door handle. Is that enough to make an arrest?
It was driver side, above the front interior door handle, IIRC.
blackdog
05-18-2010, 11:45 PM
I see, what about the car?
BeanE
05-18-2010, 11:46 PM
It is a hypothesis.
To answer your question, no
Thanks. I didn't want to miss anything :)
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:50 PM
I see, what about the car?
Floorboard, back driver's side.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #3
Above is a link to a transcript of the warrants.
blackdog
05-18-2010, 11:53 PM
$$$$$$$$$
I drove passed the house on Walnut street tonight: it's not very big, it's almost on the railroad tracks, and it's in foreclosure. Maybe he charged it on his visa.
pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 11:54 PM
And something must have set him off, if he did this. Ask yourself this, what reason might someone have for doing that? Would they just have a random psychotic break? The general sort of thing going on was what their life had been like for the last three years or so, the last week wasn't any different, so why would someone hypothetically suddenly drive a quarter of the way across the country and back again? Just because now was the time? I don't think so, there would have to be something to prompt it, and the only thing we know about that could be consistent with that would be the phone calls.
Respectfully snipped.
Never before had Venus received custody of the children. Within the week before she went missing, Doug received notice that she had won temporary custody of the children.
I imagine that that was bitter pill for him to swallow.
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 12:04 AM
Respectfully snipped.
Never before had Venus received custody of the children. Within the week before she went missing, Doug received notice that she had won temporary custody of the children.
I imagine that that was bitter pill for him to swallow.
I've asked this twice and have never received an answer. Temporary custody is just that: temporary.
When did the temporary custody expire?
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 12:07 AM
I've asked this twice and have never received an answer. Temporary custody is just that: temporary.
When did the temporary custody expire?
Let me look at code and see...brb.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 12:13 AM
I drove passed the house on Walnut street tonight: it's not very big, it's almost on the railroad tracks, and it's in foreclosure. Maybe he charged it on his visa.
:floorlaugh: Too too funny. :)
BeanE
05-19-2010, 12:15 AM
Respectfully snipped.
Never before had Venus received custody of the children. Within the week before she went missing, Doug received notice that she had won temporary custody of the children.
I imagine that that was bitter pill for him to swallow.
Bingo
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 12:18 AM
All I'm finding is that the temporary custody order stays in effect until the permanent order is issued.
And that, most of the time, the person who has temporary custody goes on to win permanent custody.
This is really kinda confusing because Venus was in Michigan with the kids, and Doug had filed for divorce in Virginia.
According to everything I've read (and I think cubby posted it, also), Venus couldn't file for divorce in Michigan until she had been back there six months. Then there would be another 180-day "cooling off" period before the divorce would be finalized. So my guess is that the temp custody order would be in effect until the divorce was finalized.
This is where we need two lawyers in this thread--one from MI and one from VA. ha.
cluciano63
05-19-2010, 12:23 AM
Do I remember reading they found a wrapper from a throw away cell phone in the truck?
I think it was a cellophane wrapper...
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 12:31 AM
No, Pickie...
I think there was a mistake in reading the warrant. It said "cellophane," and it looked like "cell phone," so I think someone earlier made that mistake, which was perfectly understandable. Cop writing is almost as bad as doctor writing!
Yep, that would be me. :blushing:
I was reading, typing, posting...looked like cellphone wrapper to my eyes at the time. But, someone pointed out that it was cellophane like that is around a pack of smokes.
Sorry y'all.
That being said, I would not doubt he had a throw away/pay as you go kinda phone on him for the trip, if indeed he is the one who took her.
JMO
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Respectfully snipped.
Never before had Venus received custody of the children. Within the week before she went missing, Doug received notice that she had won temporary custody of the children.
I imagine that that was bitter pill for him to swallow.
Someone files, the other party is served papers. Discoveries are gathered. A hearing is set to temporarily set up custody, child support and visitation. The initial temporary orders stay in place until until the divorce is finalized with the judgement of divorce which lays out how things will be handled permanently. That she got temp custody isn't abnormal when filing in Michigan and the other party is clearly living halfway accross the country. Neither is him being allowed to call his kids every day.
I am sure that his attorney would have explained to him that what was set up was not indicative of how the final judgement of divorce would be set up with regards to custody and visitation and that it was normal and customary in that regard. Now, depending on his income...the child support thing could have been the crusher.
If DS was in Michigan for that hearing approx 1 week before VS disappeared. That wouldn't give him very much time to get back to VA afterwards and secure his alibi witnesses and hit men before this all began to unfold the following weekend.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 12:52 AM
Yep, that would be me. :blushing:
I was reading, typing, posting...looked like cellphone wrapper to my eyes at the time. But, someone pointed out that it was cellophane like that is around a pack of smokes.
Sorry y'all.
That being said, I would not doubt he had a throw away/pay as you go kinda phone on him for the trip, if indeed he is the one who took her.
JMO
Like I said, cop writing--hard to read. :)
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 12:59 AM
Someone files, the other party is served papers. Discoveries are gathered. A hearing is set to temporarily set up custody, child support and visitation. The initial temporary orders stay in place until until the divorce is finalized with the judgement of divorce which lays out how things will be handled permanently. That she got temp custody isn't abnormal when filing in Michigan and the other party is clearly living halfway accross the country. Neither is him being allowed to call his kids every day.
I am sure that his attorney would have explained to him that what was set up was not indicative of how the final judgement of divorce would be set up with regards to custody and visitation and that it was normal and customary in that regard. Now, depending on his income...the child support thing could have been the crusher.
If DS was in Michigan for that hearing approx 1 week before VS disappeared. That wouldn't give him very much time to get back to VA afterwards and secure his alibi witnesses and hit men before this all began to unfold the following weekend.
I agree with what you're saying. Only thing is I don't think that he hired anyone...I think he either did it himself or with the help of someone related to him.
About the temporary order, the main thing to me is that, if he's a controlling person, losing custody of the children--even temporarily--is a huge blow to his ego. His anger wouldn't be as much about not seeing the children as about Venus actually winning in court. That's just my opinion...but I do see what you're saying and agree with what you're saying.
Just thinking out loud with this... I wonder why he was only granted phone visitation. Usually, supervised visitation would be ordered. Makes me wonder if he even showed up at court to fight for custody. Phone visitation is hardly any visitation at all, and I'd guess very rare and only for extraordinary cases--but I really don't know much about it.
Natal
05-19-2010, 01:03 AM
Thanks. I didn't want to miss anything :)
Well, I thought it was pretty clear that it was a hypothesis so I was confused why you would want a link.
Natal
05-19-2010, 01:06 AM
Respectfully snipped.
Never before had Venus received custody of the children. Within the week before she went missing, Doug received notice that she had won temporary custody of the children.
I imagine that that was bitter pill for him to swallow.
But that is pretty standard though, I'm sure his attorney would have explained it to him, it would have come as no surprise. Sorry, I don't buy that as the motivation.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 01:16 AM
But that is pretty standard though, I'm sure his attorney would have explained it to him, it would have come as no surprise. Sorry, I don't buy that as the motivation.
It's really not that standard for one person to have temporary custody and the other only be allowed telephonic visitation. That's not standard at all.
Natal
05-19-2010, 01:16 AM
Just thinking out loud with this... I wonder why he was only granted phone visitation. Usually, supervised visitation would be ordered. Makes me wonder if he even showed up at court to fight for custody. Phone visitation is hardly any visitation at all, and I'd guess very rare and only for extraordinary cases--but I really don't know much about it.
Well, it was temporary and he didn't live in state, so that would have been a practical way of handling it for the time being I guess. Supervised visitation isnt worth much if you can only be there once a blue moon.
The possibility that he didnt show up is an interesting one, one wonders if he perhaps had somehow been blindsided by all of this, especially if he didnt have representation. That would explain going off the deepend.
Natal
05-19-2010, 01:19 AM
It's really not that standard for one person to have temporary custody and the other only be allowed telephonic visitation. That's not standard at all.
It is pretty standard for the wife the recieve custody is what I meant. Unless she is an unfit mother for some reason, and there isn't any evidence for that in this case.
RJA00
05-19-2010, 01:53 AM
It's really not that standard for one person to have temporary custody and the other only be allowed telephonic visitation. That's not standard at all.
I don't know if it different between husband and wife
but i do know someone that has custody of her great grandchildren
the papers are drawn up like reg custody papers
the papers state she has temporary custody and the mother has 1 hr a week visits
its states either by phone or visit
spamelope
05-19-2010, 01:54 AM
Subtle shift in how things have been worded in the newest article. The older ones say things like this:
Anyone with any information about her whereabouts is asked to call Michigan State Police at 269-483-7611.
I take that to mean, if you think you know where Doug buried her, please call.
The newest plea is this:
If anyone has seen Venus, please contact the MSP White Pigeon Post at (269) 483-7611 or after hours at the Rockford Regional Dispatch Center at (616) 866-6666.
http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100518/News01/5180362/-1/googleNews
Do they mean, hey, if you saw a corpse that looks like her, please give us a jingle.
Or is LE beginning to wonder if Venus is alive?
spamelope
05-19-2010, 02:17 AM
It is pretty standard for the wife the recieve custody is what I meant. Unless she is an unfit mother for some reason, and there isn't any evidence for that in this case.
Not unfit, but the DV convictions will play heavily in a final decision. That is one of the things taken into consideration for custody in the link I posted earlier. I don't think she would win a custody battle. I think it's entirely possible DS agreed to let the girls stay with her til he could get back to MI and get on his feet. MOO
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 02:35 AM
Not unfit, but the DV convictions will play heavily in a final decision. That is one of the things taken into consideration for custody in the link I posted earlier. I don't think she would win a custody battle. I think it's entirely possible DS agreed to let the girls stay with her til he could get back to MI and get on his feet. MOO
But he filed for divorce in Virginia on March 30. She left in February, sometime after the 22nd.
I don't think that they were going to agree on anything.
The only way that Michigan would insert itself into a custody issue is if it were an emergency custody issue, unless Venus and the children had been in MI for over 180 days.
Even though he's moved back to Michigan, the divorce filing in Virginia is still standing, because that's where both had been residents.
Right now, Doug has two lawyers. A divorce lawyer in VA and a defense lawyer in MI. Yet their house went into foreclosure. Venus doesn't have a lawyer in Virginia (according to the ct records I saw), and I don't know if she does in MI.
So much is yet to be known about this case.
About the DV conviction and how that would play into the divorce and custody in MI... I wonder if the judge would even weigh that in a custody battle, considering that he's already given her a PPO against Doug. Evidently he believes that Doug is a danger to Venus.
Sigh... so much to think about in this case. None of it is obvious, is it?
SuziQ
05-19-2010, 02:54 AM
But that is pretty standard though, I'm sure his attorney would have explained it to him, it would have come as no surprise. Sorry, I don't buy that as the motivation.
That would be true in a normal marriage that was ending where there aren't any spouses missing. Standard procedure or not, for many husbands, who have murdered their wives, divorce and taking the kids is a bitter pill to swallow and the last straw. WS threads are filled with murdered wives cases, who's last words were probably, "I want a divorce and I'm taking the kids".
Calliope
05-19-2010, 03:06 AM
and it would be just as awful if the man is innocent for his daughter to see her mother made ugly unfounded allegations against her father. I would consider insufficient evidence in the same light as the allegations are unproven. In other words, it is impossible to declare someone innocent but we do go by the assumption innocent until proven guilty.
This man has not been convicted of the crime of molesting his children and as I understand it, at least as previously posted, LE investigate the allegations of sexual abuse and did not find enough evidence to charge him. how is this different than a rumor? Imo, this IS an allegation NOT fact until LE finds at least enough evidence to convict, no?
JMO
ETA: I should have said charge him with the crime rather than convict.
Thank you.
Calliope
05-19-2010, 03:16 AM
The only potentially incriminating things found in the truck was the possible blood stain and the reciept. The blood stain might well be his, or very old, and we don't know enough about his alibi to know if the reciept is incriminating or not.
And that receipt was found ... what? Two weeks ago now? Plenty of time for the police to have seen the videos.
Yet DS remains a free man.
Calliope
05-19-2010, 03:20 AM
It's really not that standard for one person to have temporary custody and the other only be allowed telephonic visitation. That's not standard at all.
ONLY allowed visitation by phone? I missed that along the line. DS wasn't allowed to see his children in person?
Natal
05-19-2010, 04:21 AM
And that receipt was found ... what? Two weeks ago now? Plenty of time for the police to have seen the videos.
Yet DS remains a free man.
The reciept in itself is not enough because it doesn't place him at the scene. At best (or worst, depending on your point of view) it may place him in Ohio the day before.
So, it depends on what his alibi is. For example, what was he doing on sunday and where was he on monday. If his alibi holds for monday, but he can't account for sunday, it doesn't matter if the reciept was there or not because it doesn't place him at the scene and there would be evidence that he was elsewhere. If his alibi for monday does not hold, then the reciept would place him in the vicinity of the great leaks area the day before, and therefor he *could* have been in Colon on monday, allthough it doesnt prove that he actually was.
In other words if he turns out to be involved the reciept can be used to build a picture of his movements prior to the incident, but they would still have to find something else to actually place him at the scene. That could be the tire tracks, if they match, or dirt or other "local" evidence that might have adhered to the vehicle. That was the surprising thing about the search warrant they executed on the truck, they didnt take the evidence you would have expected them to look for first in such an investigation.
Natal
05-19-2010, 04:24 AM
ONLY allowed visitation by phone? I missed that along the line. DS wasn't allowed to see his children in person?
Unless we see the actual court order we can't be sure what exactly it specified. I think the telephone visitation is what was reported in the media, but that may just be paraphrasing what they were told he was actually doing, not what he was allowed to do.
thesaint
05-19-2010, 04:33 AM
I just hope they kept or are keeping an open mind, despite saying he is the only POI, otherwise they will have a very cold trail if he is somehow ruled out as having any guilt in this abduction/possible murder.
Thank you. That's what I've been trying to convey in these threads.
I wish the police would stop dancing at way-more-than-arm's length with Doug.
Get in his face and he in yours and see what comes of it.
Maybe the police will find out--either through verbal or non-verbal communication or some other avenue--that maybe Doug shouldn't be their primary/only POI.
Or maybe the process/experience will confirm their convictions and they can
turn up the heat on Doug.
Either way, I don't see how they are getting any closer to finding Venus with their current approach.
thesaint
05-19-2010, 04:37 AM
In other words if he turns out to be involved the receipt can be used to build a picture of his movements prior to the incident, but they would still have to find something else to actually place him at the scene. That could be the tire tracks, if they match, or dirt or other "local" evidence that might have adhered to the vehicle. That was the surprising thing about the search warrant they executed on the truck, they didn't take the evidence you would have expected them to look for first in such an investigation.
You are referring to tire impressions, dirt scrapings etc? or are there other pieces of evidence you'd have expected them to havetaken, or at least looked for, in those initial warrants?
As I mentioned before, there's no weapon of any sort listed on those warrants. which gives hope that if Doug was involved in Venus' abduction, he didn't do that which can't be undone. : (
thesaint
05-19-2010, 04:40 AM
How could he possibly talk someone else into killing his wife: just drive fourteen yours; wait behind the wood pile, with a tarp; and maybe she will put the mail out.
I like your style, mr (or ms) blackdog It's simple, direct and always interesting.
thesaint
05-19-2010, 04:43 AM
I think if he did this and had help, it had to be someone very close to him who lived in Michigan, but just my opinion...
Does Doug have siblings?
What age are his parents?
How about his friends from the armed services?
Does anyone know at what rank Doug left the armed services?
If he was any sort of Officer or NCO, he could conceivably have military "friends" who regarded him highly and would, well, who knows.
There's a saying about friends help you move... : (
thesaint
05-19-2010, 04:45 AM
What bothers me in this case is that LE seems to have forgotten that DS is presumed innocent.
Yes, and not just for reasons of civil liberty and fairness, but also for investigatory (?) reasons in a missing persons case.
thesaint
05-19-2010, 04:47 AM
I drove passed the house on Walnut street tonight: it's not very big, it's almost on the railroad tracks, and it's in foreclosure. Maybe he charged it on his visa.
Hey, see what I mean? :bow::bow::bow:
crystalgenie
05-19-2010, 05:41 AM
Subtle shift in how things have been worded in the newest article. The older ones say things like this:
Anyone with any information about her whereabouts is asked to call Michigan State Police at 269-483-7611.
I take that to mean, if you think you know where Doug buried her, please call.
The newest plea is this:
If anyone has seen Venus, please contact the MSP White Pigeon Post at (269) 483-7611 or after hours at the Rockford Regional Dispatch Center at (616) 866-6666.
http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100518/News01/5180362/-1/googleNews
Do they mean, hey, if you saw a corpse that looks like her, please give us a jingle.
Or is LE beginning to wonder if Venus is alive?
I needed a laugh... :rotfl:
LIONKING21
05-19-2010, 07:48 AM
Good Morning
Too answer the question about if DS has siblings or not - yes - he is the youngest of a family of 5. 4 girls and 1 boy. IMHO, there would be no help there
I have thought about the military connection also, and I'd like to look into it more, but I think that Newport News has a pretty big Marine presence in the city, meaning alot of squad headquarters etc. I could be wrong on that
But if both cars were both up here around the time of the abduction, and then back in Virginia the next few days ????
Thanks
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:23 AM
Well, I thought it was pretty clear that it was a hypothesis so I was confused why you would want a link.
Oh yes, it was clear you were hypothesizing. What wasn't clear to me was if your hypothesis was based on some information that had come out or not. I just wanted to be sure I hadn't missed any info.
I never ask for links for hypotheses or theories or opinions - it would be futile - there are no links to thoughts :) I do, of course, ask for substantiation of facts, if a hypothesis or opinion is based on fact, and I am unfamiliar with that fact. And if I'm not sure if a hypothesis or opinion is based on fact, I sometimes ask.
Thanks for clarifying that for me, Natal.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:37 AM
Well, it was temporary and he didn't live in state, so that would have been a practical way of handling it for the time being I guess. Supervised visitation isnt worth much if you can only be there once a blue moon.
The possibility that he didnt show up is an interesting one, one wonders if he perhaps had somehow been blindsided by all of this, especially if he didnt have representation. That would explain going off the deepend.
Even if parents live at a distance, visitation is usually written into the order so ensure that the child has access to the parent. If the parent chooses not to live up to their responsibilities to spend time with their child, that's a separate issue. I would love it if visitation orders were issued that required that parents spend time with their children. It's unfortunate there's no way to make a parent live up to their responsibilities.
For the hearing, he would have received notice - there's no blindsiding about it. And of course, it would have been entirely his choice whether or not to retain representation. So, with the notice that's required, and the right we all have to representation, the logistics of the hearing shouldn't have been an issue.
I do recognize that some parents are neither mature nor responsible, or they have bad tempers, or whatever, and may actually become angered at having responsibilities toward their children that necessitate time, travel, spending money, etc. I don't know if that fits Doug or not.
believe09
05-19-2010, 08:39 AM
Ohh, I think we are allowed to voice our opinions and name someone guilty from day one. We are a discussion board. I am not at all bothered by what we say or who we judge. What bothers me in this case is that LE seems to have forgotten that DS is presumed innocent.
I dont think LE has forgotten it-POI is a relatively new catch phrase that encompasses being a suspect but not being arrested. He would be a POI regardless of what we now know simply because he is her husband, he is the father of the children, they had/have a contentious relationship, she recently obtained full custody on a temporary basis and had an active restraining order against him.
What makes him media fodder, so to speak, or trial by media-the fact that he has lawyered up and has been repeatedly non cooperative with the police department. To the point that they (LE) feel the need to point it out via spokesperson. They believe this woman was kidnapped and they believe that he has some key answers to inside their marriage and he does not want to share. Police 101 would indicate there is a problem here.
In this day and age we demand LE tell us why this egregious situation has not been taken care of-LE defends themselves and expresses frustration using the same tool.
To get back to the release of the notes: Absolutely LE could have prevented her father from releasing them...they could have impounded them, told him that they would charge him with obstructing the investigation if he released them yada yada. They have not. They are not stupid-so I think that it was done with a certain amount of guidance to exert a certain amount of pressure on DS. JMO.
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 08:41 AM
All I'm finding is that the temporary custody order stays in effect until the permanent order is issued.
And that, most of the time, the person who has temporary custody goes on to win permanent custody.
This is really kinda confusing because Venus was in Michigan with the kids, and Doug had filed for divorce in Virginia.
According to everything I've read (and I think cubby posted it, also), Venus couldn't file for divorce in Michigan until she had been back there six months. Then there would be another 180-day "cooling off" period before the divorce would be finalized. So my guess is that the temp custody order would be in effect until the divorce was finalized.
This is where we need two lawyers in this thread--one from MI and one from VA. ha.
This is what I suspected. This order was a temporary order that was to expire on the date of the next hearing.
What was the next hearing date? This is another question I had. Regardless of whether or not Venus moved to Michigan, there was another hearing scheduled and her temporary custody would expire if she did not show up for court!
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:46 AM
I don't know if it different between husband and wife
but i do know someone that has custody of her great grandchildren
the papers are drawn up like reg custody papers
the papers state she has temporary custody and the mother has 1 hr a week visits
its states either by phone or visit
Oh I wonder the Stewarts' temp custody order was written that way - that it could be phone *or* in person. I sure wish we could get a copy of that order.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:57 AM
Subtle shift in how things have been worded in the newest article. The older ones say things like this:
Anyone with any information about her whereabouts is asked to call Michigan State Police at 269-483-7611.
I take that to mean, if you think you know where Doug buried her, please call.
The newest plea is this:
If anyone has seen Venus, please contact the MSP White Pigeon Post at (269) 483-7611 or after hours at the Rockford Regional Dispatch Center at (616) 866-6666.
http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100518/News01/5180362/-1/googleNews
Do they mean, hey, if you saw a corpse that looks like her, please give us a jingle.
Or is LE beginning to wonder if Venus is alive?
That is interesting. I wonder if that wording was at LE's prompting, or if the reporter decided on his/her own to use that wording.
Also in that article:
"Douglas Stewart is our person of interest, and the only person of interest," Risko said
So, despite all leads they've found, and all leads and tips and ideas that people have sent in, they still name Doug as the one and only. Very very interesting. Either the MSP is fraught with incompetents with tunnel vision, or... they're onto something... and maybe... they know something we don't know. How I wish I was a bug on the wall at the old Pigeon Post.
believe09
05-19-2010, 09:01 AM
Oh I wonder the Stewarts' temp custody order was written that way - that it could be phone *or* in person. I sure wish we could get a copy of that order.
I have seen a set of orders like this for a different state, and the order actually has a section on it where visitation by phone call can be checked off by the judge. Hours can be listed because it has a section under the check box for modification or specification by the judge.
The forms are standardized-although that is no gtee that MI uses forms like this...
BeanE
05-19-2010, 09:02 AM
Not unfit, but the DV convictions will play heavily in a final decision. That is one of the things taken into consideration for custody in the link I posted earlier. I don't think she would win a custody battle. I think it's entirely possible DS agreed to let the girls stay with her til he could get back to MI and get on his feet. MOO
That would interesting if he agreed to it. I wonder if that would mean those DV convictions no longer concern him because he doesn't think Venus any longer has the propensity for violence, or if that would mean those DV convictions do concern him, that he does think Venus still has a propensity for violence, but he just doesn't care about his kids' safety.
I sure we could get a copy of the custody order. The hearing minutes too!
Calliope
05-19-2010, 09:08 AM
The reciept in itself is not enough because it doesn't place him at the scene. At best (or worst, depending on your point of view) it may place him in Ohio the day before.
So, it depends on what his alibi is. For example, what was he doing on sunday and where was he on monday. If his alibi holds for monday, but he can't account for sunday, it doesn't matter if the reciept was there or not because it doesn't place him at the scene and there would be evidence that he was elsewhere. If his alibi for monday does not hold, then the reciept would place him in the vicinity of the great leaks area the day before, and therefor he *could* have been in Colon on monday, allthough it doesnt prove that he actually was.
In other words if he turns out to be involved the reciept can be used to build a picture of his movements prior to the incident, but they would still have to find something else to actually place him at the scene. That could be the tire tracks, if they match, or dirt or other "local" evidence that might have adhered to the vehicle. That was the surprising thing about the search warrant they executed on the truck, they didnt take the evidence you would have expected them to look for first in such an investigation.
BBM
Oh, I know and agree with you. I'm just pointing out that perhaps it wasn't DS who purchased those items.
Calliope
05-19-2010, 09:10 AM
Unless we see the actual court order we can't be sure what exactly it specified. I think the telephone visitation is what was reported in the media, but that may just be paraphrasing what they were told he was actually doing, not what he was allowed to do.
I shouldn't post when sleepy lol
I was a bit confused by the inclusion of "only" in that post, which implies DS is forbidden from seeing his children in person.
believe09
05-19-2010, 09:13 AM
I wont speak for Natal, but it would not be out of the realm of possibility that given the tender age of the children and the nature of the statements that were made to the judge in order for VS to obtain the RO and the TO, the judge issued a "no contact order" (as in no in person visitation) until the hearing.
Most orders like this expire at the hearing date, and then they are either renewed or cancelled.
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 09:14 AM
I shouldn't post when sleepy lol
I was a bit confused by the inclusion of "only" in that post, which implies DS is forbidden from seeing his children in person.
I agree...We haven't seen an order that says he is "only" allowed to call them. I would find that to be very out of the ordinary if he is only allowed to call. TM said on NG he has the right to call the children once a day but did not disclose anything further. My guess is that there are other temporary provisions allowing for him to see the children when he can be around to do so.
The telephone calls each day would be understandable for someone who is 1100 miles away to stay in touch with their kids.
believe09
05-19-2010, 09:16 AM
That would interesting if he agreed to it. I wonder if that would mean those DV convictions no longer concern him because he doesn't think Venus any longer has the propensity for violence, or if that would mean those DV convictions do concern him, that he does think Venus still has a propensity for violence, but he just doesn't care about his kids' safety.
I sure we could get a copy of the custody order. The hearing minutes too!
I am with BeanE in that the DV charges have to be carefully played by DS. He has to perpetuate the notion that she up and ran with the kids or he will not look very consistent if he decides to fight for them.
If VS is not available for the hearing date, I wonder if it will be postponed???
believe09
05-19-2010, 09:20 AM
I agree...We haven't seen an order that says he is "only" allowed to call them. I would find that to be very out of the ordinary if he is only allowed to call. TM said on NG he has the right to call the children once a day but did not disclose anything further. My guess is that there are other temporary provisions allowing for him to see the children when he can be around to do so.
The telephone calls each day would be understandable for someone who is 1100 miles away to stay in touch with their kids.
Why do you think it would be out of the ordinary? I had a friend who went for a RO against her husband who was several states away. The judge suspended the visitation in person of Dad, but allowed for phone calls nightly. The children were also very young, and given what Mom was claiming, he (the judge) was not going to take a chance regarding the safety of the children. The order was extended multiple times as well. FWIW.
I think it is practical...most of these temporary orders last for what, 3 weeks before a hearing is scheduled??
I would love to know when the hearing date for this case is....
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 09:22 AM
I am curious if Venus revealed, in her application for the Protective Order, that she intended to move back to MICHIGAN with her parents. If the judge was aware of that, it would make sense for a telephone visitation schedule order.
mommame
05-19-2010, 09:28 AM
That would interesting if he agreed to it. I wonder if that would mean those DV convictions no longer concern him because he doesn't think Venus any longer has the propensity for violence, or if that would mean those DV convictions do concern him, that he does think Venus still has a propensity for violence, but he just doesn't care about his kids' safety.
I sure we could get a copy of the custody order. The hearing minutes too!
but.........if he agreed to all of this .......then why would VS leave there with NO clothing for the kids? I don't think he knew about her leaving at all.
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 09:28 AM
Why do you think it would be out of the ordinary? I had a friend who went for a RO against her husband who was several states away. The judge suspended the visitation in person of Dad, but allowed for phone calls nightly. The children were also very young, and given what Mom was claiming, he (the judge) was not going to take a chance regarding the safety of the children. The order was extended multiple times as well. FWIW.
I think it is practical...most of these temporary orders last for what, 3 weeks before a hearing is scheduled??
I would love to know when the hearing date for this case is....
I'm saying it would be out of the ordinary in a normal divorce case. She asked for and was denied an Emergency PPO a few weeks before she was granted the PPO she currently has. So we can't assume that the court is going to automatically restrict the husband from any visitation. If they did, it would obviously, not be normal.
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 09:40 AM
I'm saying it would be out of the ordinary in a normal divorce case. She asked for and was denied an Emergency PPO a few weeks before she was granted the PPO she currently has. So we can't assume that the court is going to automatically restrict the husband from any visitation. If they did, it would obviously, not be normal.
In California, an Emergency Protective Order is an order that is put into effect usually the same day the petitioner files. If the petitioner signs a declaration under penalty of perjury that their life is in danger should the defendant be notified, the order can be put into effect without the respondent (person to be restrained) being notified and without a hearing.
This Emergency Protective Order is in effect until the hearing date which is usually at least two weeks later to allow time for the defendant/respondent to be served and to file their responsive declarations and prepare their defense.
Because Venus was denied the Emergency Protective Order but was granted a Temporary Protective Order, I am left to assume this order was good for two years.
There is really no such thing as a permanent restraining order as they generally all expire within two to three years after which the protected person must refile, something which I find to be ridiculous in many cases.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 10:24 AM
She asked for and was denied an Emergency PPO a few weeks before she was granted the PPO she currently has.
We need to get that into the timeline. Do you have the date and details for that PPO, think?
TIA
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 10:35 AM
Is there anyone participating in this thread who lives near the Michigan courthouse where Venus filed for the Protective Order?
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 10:43 AM
We need to get that into the timeline. Do you have the date and details for that PPO, think?
TIA
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman.html
Ok, I just went back to the article...the one that was denied was in March 2009, not 2010...I apologize.
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Is there anyone participating in this thread who lives near the Michigan courthouse where Venus filed for the Protective Order?
BlackDog...wanna go on a document run for us?
Somebody put together a list of the docs we need. Maybe BlackDog or LionKing would be able to procure them.
I'd like to see several...including...
#1. Transcript of the 911 call or audio.
#2. MSP Police Report from 4/26/10
#3. Police report of criminal allegation against LM
#4. Custody docs
In no specific order.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 10:48 AM
IMO all this about divorce filings, restraining orders, abuse allegations, parent statements, wet-man etc... is overwhelming the simple facts of this case.
JMO - This relationship was volatile to the point of all those things stated above. Neither VS or DS were angels during this relationship, IMO. I think we all agree their kids were paying a hefty price for that.
Now, when I say the simple facts of THIS case, I am referring to this…
-Venus takes her kids to 4 states away and has temp custody of them.
-Venus says she is scared DS will kill her.
-Venus makes out a will.
-Venus comes up missing, most likely abducted (says MSP)
-DS is named POI really early on in the case.
-DS has receipt for shovel, cap, gloves, and tarp in his truck (from a store that would have been on the way from VA to MI).
-DS does not cooperate with MSP and gets an attorney.
I understand stranger things have happened, but the implications that VS just walked away after framing DS for her abduction/possible murder makes no sense to me at all.
In a lot of posts, it seems some are trying so hard to defend DS and make VS look bad by her actions previous to this crime. IMO The fact VS is missing and DS is a POI means a lot.
What she did 2 years ago has no bearing on this case IMO.
VS is the victim until MSP says otherwise.
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 10:51 AM
BlackDog...wanna go on a document run for us?
I actually meant to inquire if there was anyone participating in this thread who lives near the Virginia courthouse where Venus filed for the Protective Order and Doug filed for a Dissolution of Marriage.
I don't know how much the copying fee per page is but if someone has the financial means and time to have copies made of the documents and can scan them to make them available, they can be uploaded to a Photo Bucket account then embedded here for discussion.
I would be willing to start a new thread and post all the images of the documents in sequence then open the thread for discussion and comments when I'm finished, if someone wants to obtain these documents then e-mail the scans to me.
I'd also be willing to upload them all to a Photo Bucket account. Just let me know.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 10:53 AM
IMO all this about divorce filings, restraining orders, abuse allegations, parent statements, wet-man etc... is overwhelming the simple facts of this case.
JMO - This relationship was volatile to the point of all those things stated above. Neither VS or DS were angels during this relationship, IMO. I think we all agree their kids were paying a hefty price for that.
Now, when I say the simple facts of THIS case, I am referring to this…
-Venus takes her kids to 4 states away and has temp custody of them.
-Venus says she is scared DS will kill her.
-Venus makes out a will.
-Venus comes up missing, most likely abducted (says MSP)
-DS is named POI really early on in the case.
-DS has receipt for shovel, cap, gloves, and tarp in his truck (from a store that would have been on the way from VA to MI).
-DS does not cooperate with MSP and gets an attorney.
I understand stranger things have happened, but the implications that VS just walked away after framing DS for her abduction/possible murder makes no sense to me at all.
In a lot of posts, it seems some are trying so hard to defend DS and make VS look bad by her actions previous to this crime. IMO The fact VS is missing and DS is a POI means a lot.
What she did 2 years ago has no bearing on this case IMO.
VS is the victim until MSP says otherwise.
Excellent post, Kim. If I may, I would add:
- Judge grants Venus a protective order against DS
and
- DS remains today the one and only Person of Interest per MSP
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 11:04 AM
IMO all this about divorce filings, restraining orders, abuse allegations, parent statements, wet-man etc... is overwhelming the simple facts of this case.
JMO - This relationship was volatile to the point of all those things stated above. Neither VS or DS were angels during this relationship, IMO. I think we all agree their kids were paying a hefty price for that.
Now, when I say the simple facts of THIS case, I am referring to this…
-Venus takes her kids to 4 states away and has temp custody of them.
-Venus says she is scared DS will kill her.
-Venus makes out a will.
-Venus comes up missing, most likely abducted (says MSP)
-DS is named POI really early on in the case.
-DS has receipt for shovel, cap, gloves, and tarp in his truck (from a store that would have been on the way from VA to MI).
-DS does not cooperate with MSP and gets an attorney.
I understand stranger things have happened, but the implications that VS just walked away after framing DS for her abduction/possible murder makes no sense to me at all.
In a lot of posts, it seems some are trying so hard to defend DS and make VS look bad by her actions previous to this crime. IMO The fact VS is missing and DS is a POI means a lot.
What she did 2 years ago has no bearing on this case IMO.
VS is the victim until MSP says otherwise.
Actually, unfortunately, I don't think there are any simple facts in this case. If you are of the opinion that we should only focus on THIS case, that would start from the time she was allegedly abducted and what has happened since then, because if you go back in the history beyond that then her history is every bit as relevant as his.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Actually, unfortunately, I don't think there are any simple facts in this case. If you are of the opinion that we should only focus on THIS case, that would start from the time she was allegedly abducted and what has happened since then, because if you go back in the history beyond that then her history is every bit as relevant as his.
Pulling up dirt on a victim is not normally how things are done here at WS. ETA: Now, saying that, pulling up dirt on a POI is something we do here.
JMO
I said in my post, the realationship was a volatile one. I said neither was an angel in the relationship. I said the children were the ones paying a hefty price for their actions. We don't know all the facts and we can not learn them by pulling court documents. Anybody can file any court document they want to. It's a he said/she said kinda thing.
All the court documents and who did what to who means nothing to me. If she smacked him 5 or 9 times in the nose 2 years ago means nothing to me in THIS case.
You can't change the fact she had custody of the kids, she was in MI, she is missing. He's the ONLY POI at this point. To me, those are pretty simple facts.
She is the victim. That's a pretty simple fact to me.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:29 AM
Also, can I ask, how does the fact VS struck DS in 2008, have anything to do with her missing?
If DS was missing, that fact would be something to look at.
To me, bringing up that adds nothing to THIS case, he's not missing.
cluciano63
05-19-2010, 11:33 AM
I think all of the posters writing about the divorce actions and who did what and when are frustrated by lack of any new information in this case and there is nothing much else to write about until LE releases more info or makes an arrest...
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:37 AM
I think all of the posters writing about the divorce actions and who did what and when are frustrated by lack of any new information in this case and there is nothing much else to write about until LE releases more info or makes an arrest...
I certainly understand the frustration of waiting for new info on a case. But, if we are a victim friendly forum, there should be a line that is not crossed. IMO
To me, IMO/JMO/MOO, the line should be no digging up dirt on the victim who is still missing.
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 11:41 AM
Also, can I ask, how does the fact VS struck DS in 2008, have anything to do with her missing?
If DS was missing, that fact would be something to look at.
To me, bringing up that adds nothing to THIS case, he's not missing.
Do we know for a fact Venus struck Doug? Did she admit it or was she bullied into pleading no contest?
For all we know he punched himself in the nose then had her arrested for domestic violence just to be a ****
Whether or not Venus hit Doug in the nose doesn't matter. Nothing Venus has done justifies what has happened to her.
I find it strange that both Doug and Venus filed court documents in which they both claimed they were afraid their spouse was going to kill them.
It seems there may have been some "tit for tat" going on.
Since Venus is the one who appears to have been murdered, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume Doug's claims he was afraid Venus was going to kill him were lies and yet another way he manipulated the relationship to gain more control over Venus. It seems he wanted her to feel helpless, stupid, dependent, worthless, etc.
"I'll file documents and claim I am afraid you are trying to kill me. Who do you think the judge will believe? You or me? I am the one who served our country. I am more important than you. Go ahead and just try to get the kids away from me. I'll make you look like the fool. The judge will believe me. I'll have him convinced you are crazy."
Natal
05-19-2010, 12:12 PM
For the hearing, he would have received notice - there's no blindsiding about it. And of course, it would have been entirely his choice whether or not to retain representation. So, with the notice that's required, and the right we all have to representation, the logistics of the hearing shouldn't have been an issue.
Things don't allways work out the way they are supposed to though. It could be that happened in this case, you could see how something like that might enrage a person.
Natal
05-19-2010, 12:17 PM
I certainly understand the frustration of waiting for new info on a case. But, if we are a victim friendly forum, there should be a line that is not crossed. IMO
To me, IMO/JMO/MOO, the line should be no digging up dirt on the victim who is still missing.
I don't think it is possible to look only at the domestic history of DS and not at VS since both are inter-related. You have to either look at both or neither.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 12:22 PM
I don't think it is possible to look only at the domestic history of DS and not at VS since both are inter-related. You have to either look at both or neither.
Ok, they have both been looked at.
How is anything she did prior to her abduction relavent to her abduction?
Has there been some info found where she said she was gonna fake an abduction, or leave her kids, or make DS pay by framing him, or have we seen info that she has a new boyfriend and wants to start a new life???
Anything??? Anything in her past that could point towards her being gone?
Not that I have seen, but even if you don't look at DSs past, look at the present.
She is missing, he's the POI, evidence has been found in his vehicles pointing to him...That's my point.
All the court filings and banter back and forth have nothing to do with the fact she is missing.
Why do we need to dig up her past? Why do we need to talk about her wrong doings over and over again? She is the victim.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
Maybe if we list all her wrong doings from the time she met him, that may help us find her:waitasec:. I don't think that's the case.
JMO
spamelope
05-19-2010, 12:28 PM
OT But a badly decomposed body was found in Greeley this morning not far from where Kayleah Wilson disappeared from.
LIONKING21
05-19-2010, 12:31 PM
Though I would love to help secure some of these documents from the courthouse, I do not feel morally comfortable doing so because of my close relationship with a few of the family members. I am sure you all understand. Thanks
BeanE
05-19-2010, 12:37 PM
I think all of the posters writing about the divorce actions and who did what and when are frustrated by lack of any new information in this case and there is nothing much else to write about until LE releases more info or makes an arrest...
Things to do in Cases When There's No News
Things to do in Cases When There's No News - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
BeanE
05-19-2010, 12:41 PM
Things don't allways work out the way they are supposed to though. It could be that happened in this case, you could see how something like that might enrage a person.
Yes, with some people, it takes very little, or even nothing at all, for them to be off in a rage. In Gabe Johnson's case, his mother is like that. Horribly violent rages over extremely little things, or over nothing at all.
So yes, you just really never know what it is that might set someone off.
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 12:46 PM
Ok, they have both been looked at.
How is anything she did prior to her abduction relavent to her abduction?
Has there been some info found where she said she was gonna fake an abduction, or leave her kids, or make DS pay by framing him, or have we seen info that she has a new boyfriend and wants to start a new life???
Anything??? Anything in her past that could point towards her being gone?
Not that I have seen, but even if you don't look at DSs past, look at the present.
She is missing, he's the POI, evidence has been found in his vehicles pointing to him...That's my point.
All the court filings and banter back and forth have nothing to do with the fact she is missing.
Why do we need to dig up her past? Why do we need to talk about her wrong doings over and over again? She is the victim.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
Maybe if we list all her wrong doings from the time she met him, that may help us find her:waitasec:. I don't think that's the case.
JMO
Our discussing this case isn't going to help find Venus. We are simply exploring the relationship between Venus and Doug and the one way to better understand what lead up to Venus's disappearance would be to view the court documents that were filed by both parties.
If someone does make them available, the claims made in said documents by both parties will answer many of the questions that have been put forward on this thread.
I don't think anyone is trying to dig up dirt on Venus. At least that is not my reason for wanting to see the documents.
I want to read the declarations! I want to know when the Protective Order expires as well as what the court ordered as far as child visitation is concerned.
trigger
05-19-2010, 12:47 PM
OT But a badly decomposed body was found in Greeley this morning not far from where Kayleah Wilson disappeared from.
OMG....Thanx spam
Calliope
05-19-2010, 12:48 PM
Ok, they have both been looked at.
How is anything she did prior to her abduction relavent to her abduction?
Has there been some info found where she said she was gonna fake an abduction, or leave her kids, or make DS pay by framing him, or have we seen info that she has a new boyfriend and wants to start a new life???
Anything??? Anything in her past that could point towards her being gone?
Not that I have seen, but even if you don't look at DSs past, look at the present.
She is missing, he's the POI, evidence has been found in his vehicles pointing to him...That's my point.
All the court filings and banter back and forth have nothing to do with the fact she is missing.
Why do we need to dig up her past? Why do we need to talk about her wrong doings over and over again? She is the victim.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
Maybe if we list all her wrong doings from the time she met him, that may help us find her:waitasec:. I don't think that's the case.
JMO
BBM
Anything that happens prior to a crime can be relevant.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 12:49 PM
Yes, with some people, it takes very little, or even nothing at all, for them to be off in a rage. In Gabe Johnson's case, his mother is like that. Horribly violent rages over extremely little things, or over nothing at all.
So yes, you just really never know what it is that might set someone off.
I have started three replies to the stuff going on in this thread, and I've deleted them all because I don't want to run afoul of WS's policies.
This is not a court of law where the case is to be tried. This is a forum that attempts to help crime victims--and has made a very real difference in some recent cases. If people don't want to abide by the policies here, there are plenty of forums out there where people can post whatever they want.
I don't want this thread to end up being shut down like the Mackenzie Cowell thread was. In that thread, people posted that she was probably a drug dealer, was probably a slutty girl, probably was in a gang, and her mother probably was involved in her murder. All untrue.
The worst part of it was that recently LE had to release a statement to counter the accusations made at WEBSLEUTHS and this forum's owner had to take the time to write a letter to the newspaper explaining why the Mackenzie thread was closed.
Let's not do that in this thread. We are victim-friendly. Anyone who doesn't like that can find somewhere else to post.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 12:51 PM
BBM
Anything that happens prior to a crime can be relevant.
That's like saying a rape victim's sexual history should be investigated if she files rape charges. I disagree, vehemently.
cluciano63
05-19-2010, 01:03 PM
I think a lot of this back and forth on this couple's marital history will either be clarified or deemed irrelevant, depending upon the turns this case takes. I have stayed out of the discussions as I have never been through a divorce or been in an abusive relationship and it seems many posters here have experience in one or both of those situations. Every broken marriage is different, IMO, and the reasons leading to Venus' disappearance might well be linked to hers, if DS is the culprit. I am waiting to be convinced of that fact and the longer LE takes to connect him to the crime, the more benefit of the doubt I am giving him. That said, I really do not see how having court documents to review as to when he/she accused who, etc....is going to help anything at all. JMO
BeanE
05-19-2010, 01:11 PM
O/T - Phuong Le's funeral service is being streamed live for anyone who wants to watch, maybe in another window:
http://www.news10.net/news/liveonline/default-on.aspx?menuid=181
Amster
05-19-2010, 01:13 PM
I have started three replies to the stuff going on in this thread, and I've deleted them all because I don't want to run afoul of WS's policies.
This is not a court of law where the case is to be tried. This is a forum that attempts to help crime victims--and has made a very real difference in some recent cases. If people don't want to abide by the policies here, there are plenty of forums out there where people can post whatever they want.
I don't want this thread to end up being shut down like the Mackenzie Cowell thread was. In that thread, people posted that she was probably a drug dealer, was probably a slutty girl, probably was in a gang, and her mother probably was involved in her murder. All untrue.
The worst part of it was that recently LE had to release a statement to counter the accusations made at WEBSLEUTHS and this forum's owner had to take the time to write a letter to the newspaper explaining why the Mackenzie thread was closed.
Let's not do that in this thread. We are victim-friendly. Anyone who doesn't like that can find somewhere else to post.
Since we don't know what happened to Venus....and, there has been no arrest....what are we supposed to "sleuth"? Only the POI? It's ok to make up stuff that he has or hasn't done? Just because some think he's an abuser and fits some "profile"? Seems that has been gone over and over and over. I guess I'll sign off until there is some news.
Amster
05-19-2010, 01:13 PM
O/T - Phuong Le's funeral service is being streamed live for anyone who wants to watch, maybe in another window:
http://www.news10.net/news/liveonline/default-on.aspx?menuid=181
Thanks BeanE.....another sad, sad case.
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 03:53 PM
I have thought it was very likely that Doug somehow contacted Venus at the last minute to let her know he was outside with the truck, that he'd driven it all the way to Michigan as a surprise for her so she'd have transportation of her own or that he'd brought some of her belongings and some money for her.
It just seems to be too much of a coincidence that the guy crouching behind the truck, if that was indeed Doug or whomever abducted Venus, was so lucky that Venus just happened to come out of the house at the right time.
However, if Venus was NOT allowed to smoke in the house and Doug knew that, he knew she'd be coming out every 15 minutes or so to have a smoke. But, why take her in broad daylight? That's what is so strange to me.
That part perplexes me as well. I know that it is very strange for whoever it was to 'grab her during the daylight in her own yard'. It could have very easily been seen or heard by her father or daughters or a neighbor. It's very bold.
I still keep thinking that something else was planned......like that he was gonna steal the kids or something. BUT, the reasoning about her having been called to meet up outside does make sense to me, and sounds like it could be a possibility.
I think it's pretty weird actually that the person who saw someone crouching behind a strange truck across the road to NOT keep watching! If that had been me - I would have watched continuously until they left, just to see what that person was up to, and why they were crouching and what they were doing over there??? Maybe because I'm nosy......but I would have just been way to curious as to why someone would be acting in that strange way, and why they were parked in that field and hanging around and seem to be sort of hiding?
I wish we knew how she got back to Michigan when she left him. If her parents went there to get her and the kids, or what? That should be no big secret. "Maybe" that is his explanation as to why BOTH vehicles were spotted in MI. Because he brought one to her and a friend followed with the other to take him back home to VA??
There are still very many unanswered questions to us in this case, but I'm VERY sure that LE has most of these answers, so they are on a trustworthy path to finding out what exactly happened. Soooo, come on guys let us in on the secrets - ok???
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 03:57 PM
That part perplexes me as well. I know that it is very strange for whoever it was to 'grab her during the daylight in her own yard'. It could have very easily been seen or heard by her father or daughters or a neighbor. It's very bold.
I still keep thinking that something else was planned......like that he was gonna steal the kids or something. BUT, the reasoning about her having been called to meet up outside does make sense to me, and sounds like it could be a possibility.
I think it's pretty weird actually that the person who saw someone crouching behind a strange truck across the road to NOT keep watching! If that had been me - I would have watched continuously until they left, just to see what that person was up to, and why they were crouching and what they were doing over there??? Maybe because I'm nosy......but I would have just been way to curious as to why someone would be acting in that strange way, and why they were parked in that field and hanging around and seem to be sort of hiding?
I wish we knew how she got back to Michigan when she left him. If her parents went there to get her and the kids, or what? That should be no big secret. "Maybe" that is his explanation as to why BOTH vehicles were spotted in MI. Because he brought one to her and a friend followed with the other to take him back home to VA??
There are still very many unanswered questions to us in this case, but I'm VERY sure that LE has most of these answers, so they are on a trustworthy path to finding out what exactly happened. Soooo, come on guys let us in on the secrets - ok???
bbm
I would have been watching too.
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 04:00 PM
I was thinking she may have received a call at 7:10 AM (the earliest time they believe she was abducted) that led her outside, but if she had, surely they would be able to trace the number it came from and then the source of the call?
....maybe they HAVE, and they just haven't told US?
cluciano63
05-19-2010, 04:01 PM
I thought it was weird from the start that the witness who saw the crouching man did not wait to see more...but they could have been driving by? Not sure if the location of witness was stated factually. Also it seems that there are not any houses so close by as to hear a daylight abduction, necessarily. But in no way was this random, IMO, if such a rural area...you could wait a long time to see a person exit a house...
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 04:02 PM
I was thinking she may have received a call at 7:10 AM (the earliest time they believe she was abducted) that led her outside, but if she had, surely they would be able to trace the number it came from and then the source of the call?
Or she sent an e-mail.
spamelope
05-19-2010, 05:22 PM
But he filed for divorce in Virginia on March 30. She left in February, sometime after the 22nd.
I don't think that they were going to agree on anything.
The only way that Michigan would insert itself into a custody issue is if it were an emergency custody issue, unless Venus and the children had been in MI for over 180 days.
Even though he's moved back to Michigan, the divorce filing in Virginia is still standing, because that's where both had been residents.
Right now, Doug has two lawyers. A divorce lawyer in VA and a defense lawyer in MI. Yet their house went into foreclosure. Venus doesn't have a lawyer in Virginia (according to the ct records I saw), and I don't know if she does in MI.
So much is yet to be known about this case.
About the DV conviction and how that would play into the divorce and custody in MI... I wonder if the judge would even weigh that in a custody battle, considering that he's already given her a PPO against Doug. Evidently he believes that Doug is a danger to Venus.
Sigh... so much to think about in this case. None of it is obvious, is it?
I'm sorry, Puf. I should have answered this before. I am all upset about the possibility of Kayleah being found. very bad day with 2 funerals, too.
Doug may have filed in VA even if he was planning on moving back to MI because it could be done faster than if he had to reestablish residency there. And MI would be considered the girls home state since they've spent all but 6 mos of their lives there, which trumps the 6 mos rule that would apply in VA. Custody and divorce are two diff actions, usually, but not necessarily done at the same time. A PPO is a civil matter, unless you violate it, then it becomes criminal. Since all it requires is two pple not harassing each other, judges are not reluctant to order one. It would probably not be the same judge to hear custody as who granted the PPO.They both had PPOs and it probably wouldn't even be admissible. A DV charge, however, would assure you probably wouldn't get custody. Especially if you had 2 and one child was hurt. Since she cleaned out the bank acct in Feb, I don't think DS had the funds to do a whole lot except hire attys and pay child support-and not hit men. Not that i think he's too nice to not try to solicit a hit, just too broke.
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 06:18 PM
I'm think I'm ready to just occam's razor this thing out and call it a day, how about you guys?
spamelope
05-19-2010, 06:48 PM
I'm think I'm ready to just occam's razor this thing out and call it a day, how about you guys?
LOL No, Please don't go. You crack me up!
Normally, a case like this really wouldn't hold my interest at all. I would say, "Oh, this is just like we've seen 100 other times. He killed her. So sad. The End." And I would move on to the next thread.
What intrigues me is the fact that I feel like I am being played. There is too much evidence saying "It's DOUG, DOUG DID THIS." This case reeks of staging. There are endless possibilities where DS could be behind all this. There are those where he is 100% innocent. But really, the thing that makes me obsessive about this case is the gut feeling that nothing is as it seems here. I really hope LE tosses us a bone soon. They have been way, way too quiet lately. I wonder what's up?
cluciano63
05-19-2010, 06:48 PM
Me too...I have nothing more to say until LE has more to say.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:14 PM
Okay I've been searching for a few things and I'm coming up empty. Need some help.
- The guy in the sketch. What happened to him? It seems that news stories just stopped talking about him, stopped saying that LE was looking for him. But I didn't see any announcement from LE that they no longer wish to speak with him. Did LE find him? Talk to him? They're done with him?
- I've seen it posted that Venus left with no clothes or anything for the children. Can't find any articles that talk about that. Did that come out as info at some point?
- I've seen it posted both that when Venus left she took all the money *and* that she left penniless. I can't find any articles that talk about what she did money-wise when she left. Did info come out at some point about this.
- I found two NG transcripts on Venus. Anyone know if there were more than two shows?
Thank you! :)
daisy7
05-19-2010, 08:24 PM
- I've seen it posted that Venus left with no clothes or anything for the children. Can't find any articles that talk about that. Did that come out as info at some point?
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #2
PickieChickie
05-19-2010, 08:25 PM
Okay I've been searching for a few things and I'm coming up empty. Need some help.
- I found two NG transcripts on Venus. Anyone know if there were more than two shows?
Thank you! :)
Here is a YouTube search result for Venus Stewart (in order by upload date) where you will find videos of the four shows during which Nancy Grace discussed the abduction of Venus Rose Stewart: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=venus+stewart&search_sort=video_date_uploaded&suggested_categories=25&uni=3
Perhaps watching those videos will answer your other questions.
thinkaboutthis
05-19-2010, 08:42 PM
Okay I've been searching for a few things and I'm coming up empty. Need some help.
- The guy in the sketch. What happened to him? It seems that news stories just stopped talking about him, stopped saying that LE was looking for him. But I didn't see any announcement from LE that they no longer wish to speak with him. Did LE find him? Talk to him? They're done with him?
- I've seen it posted that Venus left with no clothes or anything for the children. Can't find any articles that talk about that. Did that come out as info at some point?
- I've seen it posted both that when Venus left she took all the money *and* that she left penniless. I can't find any articles that talk about what she did money-wise when she left. Did info come out at some point about this.
- I found two NG transcripts on Venus. Anyone know if there were more than two shows?
Thank you! :)
Wetman? Aww shucks...he's like a Unicorn or a Sasquatch. An old Colon wive's tale...he only comes out on the 115th day of each year, except in leap years, then it's the 116th day.
He is rumored to live in the woodsy, swampy areas and he is only seen when he gets a super bad nicotine craving.
He is said to be suffering from early onset Alzheimer's and sometimes forgets to disrobe before swimming.
I wouldn't worry about him. He's just a simple local hump who don't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
I don't think there have been any links stating anything about her leaving with the clothes on her back or draining the bank account. But if someone were to say it on NG, then it must be true.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5159665&postcount=27)
Thank you, Daisy. Ugh. I hope Doug has sent the children's clothes and belongings by now. Poor little girls.
mommame
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
Okay I've been searching for a few things and I'm coming up empty. Need some help.
- The guy in the sketch. What happened to him? It seems that news stories just stopped talking about him, stopped saying that LE was looking for him. But I didn't see any announcement from LE that they no longer wish to speak with him. Did LE find him? Talk to him? They're done with him?
- I've seen it posted that Venus left with no clothes or anything for the children. Can't find any articles that talk about that. Did that come out as info at some point?
- I've seen it posted both that when Venus left she took all the money *and* that she left penniless. I can't find any articles that talk about what she did money-wise when she left. Did info come out at some point about this.
- I found two NG transcripts on Venus. Anyone know if there were more than two shows?
Thank you! :)
Can't link it but as I remember it...The money thing came up on a message board that someone linked on here (to a TV station maybe?) where someone posted she wiped the bank account clean.........sooo as far as I have seen nothing credible has been said either way on that subject.
maggieo
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
Me too...I have nothing more to say until LE has more to say.
Me three. I'm still thinking about Venus, but I don't think this case is going anywhere until a body is found.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:48 PM
Here is a YouTube search result for Venus Stewart (in order by upload date) where you will find videos of the four shows during which Nancy Grace discussed the abduction of Venus Rose Stewart: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videos&search_query=venus+stewart&search_sort=video_date_uploaded&suggested_categories=25&uni=3
Perhaps watching those videos will answer your other questions.
Thank you so much, Pickie!
BeanE
05-19-2010, 08:53 PM
Wetman? Aww shucks...he's like a Unicorn or a Sasquatch. An old Colon wive's tale...he only comes out on the 115th day of each year, except in leap years, then it's the 116th day.
He is rumored to live in the woodsy, swampy areas and he is only seen when he gets a super bad nicotine craving.
He is said to be suffering from early onset Alzheimer's and sometimes forgets to disrobe before swimming.
I wouldn't worry about him. He's just a simple local hump who don't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
I don't think there have been any links stating anything about her leaving with the clothes on her back or draining the bank account. But if someone were to say it on NG, then it must be true.
:floorlaugh: @ Sasquatch
I rarely watch NG but I do like to collect the transcripts to get the direct quotes from family members, LE, case players, etc. I can't stand listening to the talking heads. Or NG.
Doesn't mean it's true - but it is direct quotes of things they say, versus a reporter's retelling of it.
Amster
05-19-2010, 08:59 PM
Wetman? Aww shucks...he's like a Unicorn or a Sasquatch. An old Colon wive's tale...he only comes out on the 115th day of each year, except in leap years, then it's the 116th day.
He is rumored to live in the woodsy, swampy areas and he is only seen when he gets a super bad nicotine craving.
He is said to be suffering from early onset Alzheimer's and sometimes forgets to disrobe before swimming.
I wouldn't worry about him. He's just a simple local hump who don't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
I don't think there have been any links stating anything about her leaving with the clothes on her back or draining the bank account. But if someone were to say it on NG, then it must be true.
:rolling::rolling::rolling:
Oh my...
Natal
05-19-2010, 08:59 PM
- I've seen it posted both that when Venus left she took all the money *and* that she left penniless. I can't find any articles that talk about what she did money-wise when she left. Did info come out at some point about this.
I recall that seeing that in the comments section of one of the local news sites but I don't believe that it has been reported in the media. It would fall in the "rumour" category I think.
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 09:02 PM
wetman? Aww shucks...he's like a unicorn or a sasquatch. An old colon wive's tale...he only comes out on the 115th day of each year, except in leap years, then it's the 116th day.
He is rumored to live in the woodsy, swampy areas and he is only seen when he gets a super bad nicotine craving.
He is said to be suffering from early onset alzheimer's and sometimes forgets to disrobe before swimming.
I wouldn't worry about him. He's just a simple local hump who don't know his butt from a hole in the ground.
I don't think there have been any links stating anything about her leaving with the clothes on her back or draining the bank account. But if someone were to say it on ng, then it must be true.
lol, lol
Natal
05-19-2010, 09:03 PM
- I've seen it posted that Venus left with no clothes or anything for the children. Can't find any articles that talk about that. Did that come out as info at some point?
That was from the church notice. It didn't claim she left with nothing, only that the children had clothes and toys in Virginia and they couldn't get them from DS.
BeanE
05-19-2010, 09:11 PM
All Nancy Grace Transcripts for Venus Stewart:
Missing California Nursing Student`s Former Boss Scrutinized
Aired May 3, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/03/ng.01.html
Lacrosse Player Charged With UVA Murder
Aired May 4, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/04/ng.01.html
Composite Sketch Released in Venus Stewart Case
Aired May 7, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/07/ng.01.html
Golf Pro Erica Blasberg Found Dead
Aired May 11, 2010 - 20:00:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/11/ng.01.html
BeanE
05-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Thank you for the info, Natal, and everyone :)
It really looks like wet-man just sort of faded off into the sunset...
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 09:18 PM
Thank you for the info, Natal, and everyone :)
It really looks like wet-man just sort of faded off into the sunset...
.......as did this whole case on our local news. It isn't even mentioned in the news lately. Nothing - Nada.
dnrslucky1
05-19-2010, 09:29 PM
How did anyone know she was mailing a letter? Her mother had left for work and her father was sleeping. I am guessing she told the kids to behave and be quiet cause she had to go to the mail box. I am sure she didn't announce early in the morning, I am going outside to mail a very important letter.
I just don't understand why or how anyone knew she was mailing a letter. This part is fishy!
krista
05-19-2010, 09:57 PM
Perhaps they only knew AFTER the fact.....such as finding a letter in the mailbox or on the ground near the mailbox.
cj1132
05-19-2010, 09:58 PM
How did anyone know she was mailing a letter? Her mother had left for work and her father was sleeping. I am guessing she told the kids to behave and be quiet cause she had to go to the mail box. I am sure she didn't announce early in the morning, I am going outside to mail a very important letter.
I just don't understand why or how anyone knew she was mailing a letter. This part is fishy!
IMO, that's not fishy. She may have had a bill or something of importance that she had to get out in the mail and mentioned to her mother that she was going to get it out that day.
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 10:04 PM
How did anyone know she was mailing a letter? Her mother had left for work and her father was sleeping. I am guessing she told the kids to behave and be quiet cause she had to go to the mail box. I am sure she didn't announce early in the morning, I am going outside to mail a very important letter.
I just don't understand why or how anyone knew she was mailing a letter. This part is fishy!
T. MCCOMB: Not the way our house sits. We have no windows on that side of our house. All of our windows face on towards the river. And they were in the front room with the river side.
She told me earlier she was going to go mail a letter, she had to mail a letter, but she should have told her father when she went out.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/03/ng.01.html
cj1132
05-19-2010, 10:18 PM
T. MCCOMB: Not the way our house sits. We have no windows on that side of our house. All of our windows face on towards the river. And they were in the front room with the river side.
She told me earlier she was going to go mail a letter, she had to mail a letter, but she should have told her father when she went out.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/03/ng.01.html
I totally understand her mother saying she should have told her father she was going to mail a letter. At the same time, I cannot imagine living in a world where you have to tell someone before you walk out to the end of your driveway to mail a letter.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 10:35 PM
I totally understand her mother saying she should have told her father she was going to mail a letter. At the same time, I cannot imagine living in a world where you have to tell someone before you walk out to the end of your driveway to mail a letter.
I totally agree!
blackdog
05-19-2010, 10:59 PM
It seemed quit around his parents house today when I drove past. I didn't see any cars or people. I wonder if their staying elsewhere. I don't know if it is relevant, but the "have you seen Venus posting" has been removed from the store down the street.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:05 PM
http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1376750-bottom-mich.html
article
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:06 PM
Snipped:
On Wednesday Newschannel 3 spoke with Venus' father, Larry McComb, who hadn't seen his daughter in 23 days.
“Wishing the law moved a little faster,” said McComb, “but it's not like TV, you've got tests that have to be made.”
McComb says he's still waiting for test results on those blood samples that were taken from Doug's truck. He says investigators tell him it won't be long.
“They submit blood work for DNA, takes up to three weeks to get the results back,” said McComb.
Regardless of what those test results ultimately show, McComb says he believes his daughter is alive, and he says he knows where she is, or at least who has her.
“Like to have Doug Stewart cut her loose and hopefully minimize his loses,” said McComb, “just throw himself on the mercy of the courts.”
“I see an arrest being made and my daughter coming home,” said McComb.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:08 PM
So, he thinks DS has VS held captive?
Have we heard this yet? Maybe I missed this.
Calliope
05-19-2010, 11:11 PM
McComb says he believes his daughter is alive, and he says he knows where she is, or at least who has her.
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa .......
I thought he was convinced DS had killed Venus.
Calliope
05-19-2010, 11:11 PM
So, he thinks DS has VS held captive?
Have we heard this yet? Maybe I missed this.
My *hinky* meter just pegged.
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 11:12 PM
It seemed quit around his parents house today when I drove past. I didn't see any cars or people. I wonder if their staying elsewhere. I don't know if it is relevant, but the "have you seen Venus posting" has been removed from the store down the street.
Have you noticed anymore that have been removed, or just that one?
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:13 PM
I just tuned in to the 11pm news and caught the discussion of the VS case already in progress. Her dad was talking and said that he knows who took her and who has her - "he just wishes that DS would just cut Venus loose and send her home - and just cut his losses." They asked him when he expects a possible arrest in the case, and he clearly said he expects an arrest to be made and his daughter TO COME HOME hopefully early next week!!!!
WOW......weird expectation?:eek:
He didn't seem to act completely distressed, maybe just a bit frustrated.
IMO -this is just strange...
blackdog
05-19-2010, 11:13 PM
This is getting too weird.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:14 PM
Ok, I'm lost.
Is this just wishful thinking on her Dad's part? Maybe he just wants to believe she's alive.
I don't understand this statement from her Dad at all.
JMO
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:15 PM
I just tuned in to the 11pm news and caught the discussion of the VS case already in progress. Her dad was talking and said that he knows who took her and who has her - "he just wishes that DS would just cut Venus loose and send her home - and just cut his losses." They asked him when he expects a possible arrest in the case, and he clearly said he expects an arrest to be made and his daughter TO COME HOME hopefully early next week!!!!
WOW......weird expectation?:eek:
He didn't seem to act completely distressed, maybe just a bit frustrated.
IMO -this is just strange...
The article said he thought she would be coming home in the next few weeks.
ETA: I just went back to re-read the article...he said the next several weeks.
ETA again: I just went back and re-re-read the article...it said he was expecting AN ARREST withing the next several weeks. Not VS to come home within the next several weeks.
Sorry y'all. Sometimes I get excited when new news comes out and I have brain toots.
blackdog
05-19-2010, 11:15 PM
Have you noticed anymore that have been removed, or just that one?
First one I noticed. I'm going to look tomorrow in Three Rivers.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:16 PM
OK LE, time for a presser. WE NEED MORE INFO!
If MSP thinks it's possible she is still alive, they need to let the public know that.
Maybe this is just a Dad hoping for the best. I don't know what to think.
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 11:18 PM
Regardless of what those test results ultimately show, McComb says he believes his daughter is alive, and he says he knows where she is, or at least who has her.
“Like to have Doug Stewart cut her loose and hopefully minimize his loses,” said McComb, “just throw himself on the mercy of the courts.”
Newschannel 3 has repeatedly tried to contact Doug Stewart or his attorney without success, but Stewart did called Newschannel 3 recently to say he's got nothing to do with his wife's disappearance. Stewart also directed us to court documents suggesting Venus was the abusive one in the relationship.
McComb says that was upsetting to watch.
“It didn't surprise me, we played this all out when they were going to get divorced last year. He always tried to make Venus look like the bad person,” said McComb. “I'd never turn my wife in for domestic abuse if she popped me in the nose and I had it coming.”
Despite the 'he said, she said' McComb says he sees the whole situation coming to an end soon.
“I see an arrest being made and my daughter coming home,” said McComb.
McComb told Newschannel 3 that he's hopeful that arrest will come in the next several weeks.
http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1376750-bottom-mich.html
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:20 PM
The article said he thought she would be coming home in the next few weeks.
When I just watched them interview him on TV he said hopefully early next week, then the news reporter said 'So, we may see her home as early as Monday."
It was just weird.....especially since they have been indicating that she possibly wasn't alive, but now they are talking weird, like she is 'just gone, but will be back?' hmmmmmm:waitasec:
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:21 PM
Very strange IMO.
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:23 PM
....hmmmm. Maybe I heard it wrong on the news at the end. I'll see if I can find a film clip of it. ???
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:25 PM
I mean, if this man is actually spouting off a certain day of the week that she should be back, where is he getting this info from?
It's not like he's just saying, I have a feeling she will be home or I have a feeling she's alive.
He's actually saying he KNOWS she's alive and KNOWS who has her. And, giving a time frame of when he's expecting her to be freed.
This is beyond belief. WTH is going on?
spamelope
05-19-2010, 11:26 PM
Guess LE figured out she's alive. I think Larry's right, there will be an arrest soon. Anyone wanna make a bet it's not Doug who's arrested?
CYA time, folks. CYA time.
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:29 PM
Here is the news clip...
http://www.wwmt.com/video/?videoId=86742374001&play=now
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 11:29 PM
I mean, if this man is actually spouting off a certain day of the week that she should be back, where is he getting this info from?
It's not like he's just saying, I have a feeling she will be home or I have a feeling she's alive.
He's actually saying he KNOWS she's alive and KNOWS who has her. And, giving a time frame of when he's expecting her to be freed.
This is beyond belief. WTH is going on?
Guess LE figured out she's alive. I think Larry's right, there will be an arrest soon. Anyone wanna make a bet it's not Doug who's arrested?
CYA time, folks. CYA time.
Something is going on. This is strange.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:29 PM
Guess LE figured out she's alive. I think Larry's right, there will be an arrest soon. Anyone wanna make a bet it's not Doug who's arrested?
CYA time, folks. CYA time.
:waitasec: Huh?
Who is CYAing?
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:31 PM
We need to remember this is coming from her Dad who also said he KNEW she was dead last week.
I wish LE would let us know what's going on. I'm having a hard time trying to decide who is stating facts and who is going from emotions and spectulation.
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:32 PM
:waitasec: Huh?
Who is CYAing?
......not sure, but her dad was sweating alot. :waitasec:
blackdog
05-19-2010, 11:34 PM
Maybe he was told what to say.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 11:34 PM
So, he thinks DS has VS held captive?
Have we heard this yet? Maybe I missed this.
That is heartbreaking. :(
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:35 PM
......not sure, but her dad was sweating alot. :waitasec:
Was it hot? Cause down here, I've been sweating a lot too.
Ok, I'm gonna go watch the video.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 11:35 PM
I think it's as simple as her poor father not wanting to let go of his daughter. He does not want to believe that she's dead. He is in denial, which is a natural stage of grief.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 11:36 PM
Was it hot? Cause down here, I've been sweating a lot too.
Ok, I'm gonna go watch the video.
I was in Denham Springs today, and it was HOT. Feels like July out there.
spamelope
05-19-2010, 11:39 PM
:waitasec: Huh?
Who is CYAing?
Can I say it now that Larry says Venus is alive? If she's alive, is she still the victim? Do we really believe Larry now? Am I being baited? I'm scared. MOMMY! LOL
I think I've been trying to say something like this was going on. I think DS was set up. My hinky meter was tripped at the magic fairy slipper magic dust.
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 11:40 PM
:waitasec: Huh?
Who is CYAing?
......not sure, but her dad was sweating alot. :waitasec:
Cover Your A$$
Calliope
05-19-2010, 11:41 PM
I mean, if this man is actually spouting off a certain day of the week that she should be back, where is he getting this info from?
It's not like he's just saying, I have a feeling she will be home or I have a feeling she's alive.
He's actually saying he KNOWS she's alive and KNOWS who has her. And, giving a time frame of when he's expecting her to be freed.
This is beyond belief. WTH is going on?
IMO, we've been taken for a ride.
BTW, looking at the transcripts BeanE posted, I noticed this about her leaving with just the clothes on her back. This had to have come from either the notes OR the parents. Either way, it's hearsay:
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, Nancy, she had made allegations in the past that he was abusive to her. In these notes -- and we actually got this from her parents, it`s very similar to the request she filed for that protective order.
But this looks like her notes preparing to write that. And she says that he would grab her by the throat whenever she would try to leave or he would try to control her. She actually says that after her daughter told her that the husband had allegedly sexually abused her, she says that once she found out about that, she decided to pack up her kids and leave, but she was afraid that he would catch her packing and that they would have a fight or an argument about it.
So, yes, Nancy, she took those kids with nothing on her back she says. She actually had to go to Wal-Mart after they got out of the house, buy some clothes for the girls, toothbrushes. They left with just a little bit of money and headed to her parent`s house.
Walmart, eh?
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:42 PM
Was it hot? Cause down here, I've been sweating a lot too.
Ok, I'm gonna go watch the video.
70 degrees here today. Actually pretty nice, because yesterday it was only 58.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:44 PM
Was it hot? Cause down here, I've been sweating a lot too.
Ok, I'm gonna go watch the video.
Ok, I just went a watched. I did not think he was sweating really bad. I never saw sweat. I saw him wipe his forehead one time, but he seemed pretty genuine to me. JMO
I think it's as simple as her poor father not wanting to let go of his daughter. He does not want to believe that she's dead. He is in denial, which is a natural stage of grief.
I'm thinking I agree with you on this one puf, I think he just wants to believe his daughter is alive.
I was in Denham Springs today, and it was HOT. Feels like July out there.
Yes, it was hot in Louisiana today! For a minute I thought I had passed on and went South. Gotta love Louisiana summers.
Can I say it now that Larry says Venus is alive? If she's alive, is she still the victim? Do we really believe Larry now? Am I being baited? I'm scared. MOMMY! LOL
I think I've been trying to say something like this was going on. I think DS was set up. My hinky meter was tripped at the magic fairy slipper magic dust.
I still don't think there is some big frame job going on. We will have to wait and see. And yes, she is still the victim until LE tells us otherwise IMO.
We have heard nothing from them that VS is alive.
spamelope
05-19-2010, 11:44 PM
IMO, we've been taken for a ride.
BTW, looking at the transcripts BeanE posted, I noticed this about her leaving with just the clothes on her back. This had to have come from either the notes OR the parents. Either way, it's hearsay:
Walmart, eh?
I love you, I really do. :)
Wonder if she saved the receipt?
thesaint
05-19-2010, 11:46 PM
Maybe Venus' father is getting his info from the threads here. : )
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 11:46 PM
70 degrees here today. Actually pretty nice, because yesterday it was only 58.
I hate hot weather...I love fall and spring. But spring in the south is 90 degrees and humid. Yuck!
In the video, I don't notice him sweating a lot. If he was sweating, it could be from nerves from being on TV, or even just from not getting any sleep.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:47 PM
Funny how the same people did not believe her dad when he said DS killed her but now they want to believe him when he says she's alive. :waitasec:
lol
Y'all are something else.
I find it rather odd myself, but I still think it can be an emotional Dad who wants to believe his daughter is alive. IDK
This case is nutso.
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:48 PM
I love you, I really do. :)
Wonder if she saved the receipt?
I went to Wal-Mart today too. Want me to scan my receipt? :crazy:
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Guess LE figured out she's alive. I think Larry's right, there will be an arrest soon. Anyone wanna make a bet it's not Doug who's arrested?
CYA time, folks. CYA time.
Spamo:
What makes you think LE figured out she's alive?
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 11:51 PM
Another biggie in the video... Doug was in court today trying to get custody of the girls.
Calliope
05-19-2010, 11:51 PM
Also:
Ellie Jostad, isn`t it true that the cover, the plastic cover of a tarp of some sort was found in the driveway?
JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. Actually, it was just the plastic wrapper that had once contained a tarp. So in those search warrants that were served on the husband`s vehicle and his home, police were seeking a tarp. So they`re trying to figure out where that tarp went, Nancy.
GRACE: And to Larry McComb, this is Venus` parents -- her mother and father.
Larry, had you purchased a tarp? Did you see the plastic cover to the tarp in the driveway?
L. MCCOMB: I was the one that pointed it out to the police. It wasn`t there the day before. And I sure didn`t purchase it. And there was no wind. It didn`t blow there.
GRACE: So this means he would have -- the perpetrator would have had to take the tarp out of the bag or out of the container there in the driveway. So now we know that a tarp is involved.
Do you know the color, Larry?
L. MCCOMB: No, I don`t know the color. I`ve thought maybe he might have opened his door and grabbed it or it fell out of his trunk. I don`t know. But it ended up in my driveway.
His driveway?
From the prior show:
We`re hearing that -- or we`re reading in this request for a warrant that they want to match the tire patterns that they found in the field with the ones on Douglas Stewart`s pickup truck. That the general tread pattern is similar, but they need to match the actual tires.
This is also the episode where dollar store woman clears wetman and T shortens DS's height by about 4 inches--- and makes him thinner too.
eyes4crime
05-19-2010, 11:51 PM
Maybe puff is right = grieving can alter the way one sees things over time. Remember, Dad is not obligated to tell we, the people, the truth..LE and the FBI yes, but not us.
OR - he has been protecting his daughter all along - maybe hiding her.
OR - he is Alzheimery.
JMO
spamelope
05-19-2010, 11:52 PM
Spamo:
What makes you think LE figured out she's alive?
I posted it last night, hang on.
Subtle shift in how things have been worded in the newest article. The older ones say things like this:
Anyone with any information about her whereabouts is asked to call Michigan State Police at 269-483-7611.
I take that to mean, if you think you know where Doug buried her, please call.
The newest plea is this:
If anyone has seen Venus, please contact the MSP White Pigeon Post at (269) 483-7611 or after hours at the Rockford Regional Dispatch Center at (616) 866-6666.
http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100518/News01/5180362/-1/googleNews
Do they mean, hey, if you saw a corpse that looks like her, please give us a jingle.
Or is LE beginning to wonder if Venus is alive?
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:52 PM
I hate hot weather...I love fall and spring. But spring in the south is 90 degrees and humid. Yuck!
In the video, I don't notice him sweating a lot. If he was sweating, it could be from nerves from being on TV, or even just from not getting any sleep.
I'm sure your right. I guess I just happen to notice him wiping his brow, and maybe mistook it for sweating, but maybe it was just frustration, nerves, or as simple as brushing his hair aside. I don't know, but I seem to think he sounded more frustrated than worried or upset....didn't you? or no?
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:54 PM
I posted it last night, hang on.
Oh, you mean that article that asked if anyone had seen VS?
That was reporters words right? Or was that a statement from LE?
I thought I read on here that the wording was now changed.
Marinemom
05-19-2010, 11:56 PM
I went to Wal-Mart today too. Want me to scan my receipt? :crazy:
well..........did you buy a shovel, cap, gloves, and tarp? If so, GET RID OF THAT RECEIPT RIGHT AWAY!!! Burn it or something. ;)
Kimberlyd125
05-19-2010, 11:57 PM
Ok, I just had a thought...hold on to your seatbelts cause I have smoke coming out of my ears...
this is making me rethink the whole MSP website not putting VS's picture up on their page for the missing.
Do they think they know where she is?
Nah...LE would not deceive us would they?
RubyRed
05-19-2010, 11:58 PM
Another biggie in the video... Doug was in court today trying to get custody of the girls.
I figured that was coming.
pufnstuf
05-19-2010, 11:58 PM
Maybe puff is right = grieving can alter the way one sees things over time. Remember, Dad is not obligated to tell we, the people, the truth..LE and the FBI yes, but not us.
OR - he has been protecting his daughter all along - maybe hiding her.
OR - he is Alzheimery.
JMO
I think it's grief and exhaustion. Poor guy. It seems to me that Channel 3 edited the interview for sensationalistic purposes. In the beginning of the video, Larry says, "She took a swipe at him..." and seemed to be explaining what happened between Doug and Venus...
But the article just has the "If my wife popped me in the nose" quotation.
I wish that a family friend would step in and do interviews for the McCombs. It's got to be tough on them, and interviews with an exhausted person can make the person look wacky.
thesaint
05-19-2010, 11:59 PM
The police statements throughout have been hinky, e.g., Lt Risko's
"we don't have Venus" statement.
Kimberlyd125
05-20-2010, 12:00 AM
well..........did you buy a shovel, cap, gloves, and tarp? If so, GET RID OF THAT RECEIPT RIGHT AWAY!!! Burn it or something. ;)
No...I bought a candlestick, it's in the library, by Prof. Plumb's outline. (I played Clue a lot)
pufnstuf
05-20-2010, 12:00 AM
I'm sure your right. I guess I just happen to notice him wiping his brow, and maybe mistook it for sweating, but maybe it was just frustration, nerves, or as simple as brushing his hair aside. I don't know, but I seem to think he sounded more frustrated than worried or upset....didn't you? or no?
He's probably numb, frustrated, and exhausted. I feel so sorry for him and his wife. They obviously love their daughter very much, and their granddaughters, too.
I really hope this all comes to a head soon so that they can get some rest.
Calliope
05-20-2010, 12:01 AM
Here is the news clip...
http://www.wwmt.com/video/?videoId=86742374001&play=now
Very poor reporting. No proof released yet that DS purchased those items on the receipt.
Calliope
05-20-2010, 12:02 AM
Can I say it now that Larry says Venus is alive? If she's alive, is she still the victim? Do we really believe Larry now? Am I being baited? I'm scared. MOMMY! LOL
I think I've been trying to say something like this was going on. I think DS was set up. My hinky meter was tripped at the magic fairy slipper magic dust.
Found by LM when the police dusted for prints.
Kimberlyd125
05-20-2010, 12:02 AM
Very poor reporting. No proof released yet that DS purchased those items on the receipt.
From what I can tell, there is no proof yet from anything in the report really.
I think they were trying to make news because there has been no official news coming from LE on this case.
JMO
Calliope
05-20-2010, 12:04 AM
Funny how the same people did not believe her dad when he said DS killed her but now they want to believe him when he says she's alive. :waitasec:
lol
Y'all are something else.
I find it rather odd myself, but I still think it can be an emotional Dad who wants to believe his daughter is alive. IDK
This case is nutso.
It's not a matter of believing or disbelieving. It's a matter of his very strange comments and affect.
Marinemom
05-20-2010, 12:07 AM
OT ------------
Kimberlyd I noticed you are in Louisiana - my son took his construction company and my husband went with them down there right after Hurricane Katrina hit. They lived in our motorhome and just fixed roofs and homes for 6 months down there. They still talk about how horrible it was down there. :(
Kimberlyd125
05-20-2010, 12:08 AM
It's not a matter of believing or disbelieving. It's a matter of his very strange comments and affect.
Yes, it seems all of his comments have been "strange" but people put more merit on the ones that backs up their opinion of what happend.
JMO - I don't mean to say anybody is wrong, just an observation. :angel:
spamelope
05-20-2010, 12:09 AM
Ya know, I don't know what's going on. I've tried to logically explain what I feel were problems with this case. I don't jump on bandwagons to defend possible murderers and take question with members of the yaya sisterhood. Not only was there never any proof that VS was murdered, there never was any proof she was even hurt. From Slippergate to having to drive too many vehicles too many places in too short of a period of time, things were just HINKY. The clues were there all along. This case is going to explode. I have just one question. IF DS is innocent, has he been treated fairly?
pufnstuf
05-20-2010, 12:09 AM
Newschannel 3 has repeatedly tried to contact Doug Stewart or his attorney without success, but Stewart did called Newschannel 3 recently to say he's got nothing to do with his wife's disappearance. Stewart also directed us to court documents suggesting Venus was the abusive one in the relationship.
Mmmmmm hmmmmmm. That's the sole reason he called them.
Kimberlyd125
05-20-2010, 12:09 AM
OT ------------
Kimberlyd I noticed you are in Louisiana - my son took his construction company and my husband went with them down there right after Hurricane Katrina hit. They lived in our motorhome and just fixed roofs and homes for 6 months down there. They still talk about how horrible it was down there. :(
O/T:
Still is, I work for an appraiser and we are still in NOLA a couple times a month and you would not blieve how it STILL is.
Horrible. Some houses have still not been touched. Still have the painted x's on the front from when they were checked for bodies.
Very eerie.
Marinemom
05-20-2010, 12:11 AM
From what I can tell, there is no proof yet from anything in the report really.
I think they were trying to make news because there has been no official news coming from LE on this case.
JMO
That's probably so. Just wanting to keep it in the news. Reminding people it hasn't been solved yet.
Kimberlyd125
05-20-2010, 12:11 AM
Ya know, I don't know what's going on. I've tried to logically explain what I feel were problems with this case. I don't jump on bandwagons to defend possible murderers and take question with members of the yaya sisterhood. Not only was there never any proof that VS was murdered, there never was any proof she was even hurt. From Slippergate to having to drive too many vehicles too many places in too short of a period of time, things were just HINKY. The clues were there all along. This case is going to explode. I have just one question. IF DS is innocent, has he been treated fairly?
By who? LE - yes.
Court of public opinion - maybe not.
Calliope
05-20-2010, 12:12 AM
From what I can tell, there is no proof yet from anything in the report really.
I think they were trying to make news because there has been no official news coming from LE on this case.
JMO
What I'm referring to is the reporter stating LE found a receipt "showing he bought a tarp, gloves and a shovel the day before Venus went missing."
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