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Cubby
05-17-2010, 08:59 AM
Please continue here.

Link to thread #4

MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 09:08 AM
VENUS ROSE STEWART TIMELINE

2002: Venus Rose McComb and Douglas Harrie Stewart marry (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html).

2007 through 2009: Venus Stewart and Douglas Harrie Stewart's marriage is marred by mutual allegations of violence (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) and multiple divorce filings as detailed below.

Orders of Protection, Domestic Violence, and Divorce Filings:


September 2007 - Doug Stewart files for divorce (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) from Venus Stewart but does not follow through.

June 2008 - An incident at the Schoolcraft house results in Venus being arrested for domestic violence. According to divorce papers filed by Doug a month later, Venus gave him a bloody nose (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1376536-bottom-page.html) and hit him five times in the face. However, records from that incident are no longer public, and St. Joseph County prosecutor says Venus likely completed a diversion course for the first domestic violence offense, thus having her record cleared.

July 2008 - Venus Stewartfiles for an order of protection against Douglas Stewart (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html). Venus wrote that Douglas Stewart abused her, made threats to take the couple’s two children and constantly badgered her for sex. “I am scared to death and every day I live in constant fear and I am constantly looking over my shoulder wondering when he will appear again,” she wrote. Douglas Stewart filed an objection to Venus's request for the order of protection. His objection was dismissed and Venus' protective order was granted.

July 2008 - Douglas Stewart files for divorce (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html), but does not follow through. Case dismissed in 2009.

August 2008 - Douglas Stewart answers Venus' protection order with a request for one of his own. He stated (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) that in June 2008 she attacked him “with approximately nine blows to the face and also caused harm to my 3 1/2 year old’s head.” (Versus his earlier statement that she had hit him five times in the head.) “She has informed me on a daily basis that she will kill me for taking the kids away from her...I cannot live my life in constant fear that my kids and I are under attack ... I live my life in fear now and I fear the outcome of my children. Please help me. Please help her.” Granted.

October 2008 - Both protective orders by the Stewarts are dismissed.

November 2008 - Venus is charged with domestic violence, but several months later pleads no contest to disturbing the peace.

March 2009 - Venus Stewart files a second petition for a personal-protection (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html) order against her husband in March 2009, alleging that he threatened her and made a false criminal accusation against her father. “Once Doug loses all control over me he is going to hunt me down and kill me.... Now that I don’t have my parents to protect me and if he finds out where I am at he is going to kill me. It’s only a matter of time.” Welty denies the request for the protection order in 2009, saying the type of protection order requested by Stewart is "only for emergency situations, where there is clearly a danger of harm happening within the next few days. Your case does not seem to fit the urgent emergency criteria,” the denial said.

February 2010 - Venus again files for an order of protection--again stating that she feared that he would kill her--which is granted; and for temporary custody of the Stewarts' daughters, which is granted. Friends of Venus' recall her telling them (http://www.threeriversnews.com/articles/2010/05/15/news/local_news/doc4bedd193db528663825450.txt), "If I come up missing, Doug’s killed me."

March 2010 - Douglas Stewart again files for divorce (http://wasdmz2.courts.state.va.us/CJISWeb/MainMenu.do) from Venus, this time in Newport News Circuit Court. Divorce is currently pending.


Summer 2009: Venus and Douglas Stewart move from 300 Walnut street, Schoolcraft, Michigan, to an apartment in Newport News, Virginia. The Schoolcraft house is in foreclosure (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1376536-bottom-page.html).

February 2010: Venus Stewart and her two daughters, age 3 and 5, move back to Michigan, where they live with her parents, Therese and Larry McComb, in Colon Township. Back in Michigan, Venus Stewart files for a protective order in St. Joseph County. Court documents reveal that this latest move was sparked by an investigation (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/MSP-Colon-Twp-woman-possibly-abducted) into the alleged sexual abuse of their 5-year-old daughter, which concluded that at the time there was insufficient evidence to charge Douglas Stewart with sexual molestation of the couple's daughter.

February - April 2010: Venus Stewart writes notes (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus) detailing the alleged sexual abuse of her daughter by her husband. Also, according to her father, Venus wrote out a will (http://www.wkzo.com/news/articles/2010/may/06/colon-woman-continues/) days before she disappeared, because she was concerned that her husband would harm her.

Monday - April 19, 2010: Venus Stewart is granted temporary custody (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html) of the couple’s two daughters by Judge William Welty in St. Joseph County District Court.

Monday - 7:10 AM - 8:30 AM- 26 April 2010: Venus Stewart is abducted (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/MSP-Colon-Twp-woman-possibly-abducted) between 7:10 and 8:30 a.m. Monday outside her parent’s home in the 55000 block of Driftwood Drive in Colon Township while walking to her parents' mailbox to post a letter. Police immediately name her estranged husband (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html), Douglas Harrie Stewart, as the person of interest in the abduction and begin a multi-state manhunt (http://www.wkzo.com/news/articles/2010/apr/27/colon-township-woman-may-have-been-abducted/) to find him. According to Lt. Mike Risko of the MSP, "There is evidence that there was a struggle (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004084-504083.html). We do not believe she left of her own free will."

Monday - "late night" - 26 April 2010: Douglas Harrie Stewart, Venus's estranged husband, is located at his residence (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) in Newport News, Virginia. Police continue to attempt to locate two vehicles (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) associated with Doug Stewart: a 1998 silver Mercury sedan and a 2005 silver Dodge Ram extended-cab pick-up. Despite locating Douglas Stewart, police have yet to find the car or pickup (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html) truck.

Wednesday - 28 April 2010: Douglas Stewart refuses to answer questions by investigators or the media and refers all contact (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) to his attorney, Jeffrey M. Schroder (http://www.hettingerlaw.com/schroder.php) of Portage, Michigan. Lt. Mike Risko says all investigators' contact (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/mother-1375777-newschannel-michigan.html) with Doug Stewart is through his lawyer. Newport News police locate the Dodge Ram truck (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/newport_news/missing-mom-case-leads-to-newport-news) at Doug Stewart's apartment building's parking lot.

Friday - 30 April 2010: Michigan State Police troopers and sheriff’s deputies began searching (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/poilce_searching_wooded_area_i.html) near Adams Lake and Oak Leaf Trail, approximately a mile from the McCombs' residence from which Venus Stewart was abducted, after receiving a tip, State Police Lt. Mike Risko said. Risko said the tip that police acted on Friday was information that a person saw a man near the shoreline of Adams Lake within the time frame that Venus Stewart is believed to have been taken. “It’s one of the few tips we’ve got so we’re going to act on it,” Risko said. “At this stage of the game, I don’t think we can let anything slide." The Michigan State Police and the Sheriff's Department canvassed the area on foot but didn't find anything (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1375898-bottom-style.html).

Monday - 3 May 2010: Media report that the two vehicles associated with Douglas Stewart for which police have been searching have been located (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Nancy-Grace-takes-on-missing-woman-case) in Virginia.

Tuesday - 4 May 2010: A neighbor of the McCombs says that she spotted a pick-up truck (http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/category/missing-persons/) in the area at the time of her disappearance, about 7AM (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/tire_marks_where_venus_stewart.html). She said that five minutes later, the truck was gone. The Michigan State Police crime lab compared photos of the tread on her husband’s trucks’ tires to the tire marks left at the scene in Michigan, and advised that the “general tread pattern” was in agreement (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/newport_news/missing-mom-case-leads-to-newport-news), but they needed the actual tires from Stewart’s truck for “more thorough, further analysis.”

Wednesday - 5 May 2010: Using side-scan sonar and divers, investigators search Adams Lake (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/stewart-1376081-state-joseph.html) but find no clues to Venus Stewart's disappearance. Investigators continue to state that Doug Stewart is the sole person of interest (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/police_dive_team_combs_adams_l.html) in Venus Stewart's disappearance, despite having what investigators say (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dive-crews-search-for-missing-woman) is a solid alibi. While the dive team conducted its search Wednesday, Lt. Mike Risko said that MSP crime lab personnel were flying to Virginia to conduct searches (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/police_dive_team_combs_adams_l.html) of a Mercury sedan and Dodge Ram pickup truck that are both registered to Douglas Stewart. Police obtained search warrants for the vehicles, which were seized today (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/michigan_state_police_want_to.html) by Newport News police.

Contacted by the media on Wednesday, Doug Stewart makes the following statement (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dive-crews-search-for-missing-woman): "I still care about her very much, and to be told that you could be involved of something of this nature, it's repulsive. It makes me feel horrible, and now, that the timeline has gone so far ... I'm getting very worried and very concerned."

Thursday - 6 May 2010: 24 Hour News 8 obtained a copy of the handwritten notes (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus) by Venus detailing her daughter's story. According to the documents, her daughter told Venus about the incident in February 2010 in which Doug Stewart allegedly had his eldest daughter touch him inappropriately. The notes were provided by Larry McComb, Venus' father, who said he stumbled across the papers in a drawer. February is when Venus left her husband, Douglas Stewart, and moved in with the McCombs in Colon Township, Larry McComb added.

Also on Thursday, police released a sketch of a person (http://media2.woodtv.com//photo/2010/05/06/sketch_20100506125229_320_240.JPG) with whom they would like to speak. Police state that the man is not a suspect. The sketch is based on several reports of a man near Adam's lake who approached people. Two people say they encountered the man (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/suspicious-person-in-Venus-Stewart-case) the night before Stewart disappeared. The witnesses said it was unusual, and the man was disheveled and wet (http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/article/20100507/NEWS01/5070314/1002/NEWS01/Search-still-on-for-missing-woman), as if he had been swimming. He asked the witnesses for a cigarette. “Some guy came out of the woods, out of nowhere,” said Leana Powell (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1376107-bottom-newschannel.html), “came up behind me and asked, 'do you know where I am?'”

On Thursday, State Police Forensics Teams from Michigan continue to inspect the two vehicles (http://www.wkzo.com/news/articles/2010/may/06/search-continues-missing-woman/) in the possession of Douglas Stewart. A copy of the search warrant says they want to test the Dodge Ram, which is owned by Venus Stewart (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/newport_news/missing-mom-case-leads-to-newport-news) but has been in the possession of Doug Stewart, for dirt, plant material, or any other evidence that shows the truck was driven to Michigan recently. They are also looking for (http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/newport_news/missing-mom-case-leads-to-newport-news) blood, hair, a tarp, or other signs it may have been used for an abduction. They also want to compare tire treads on the Dodge Ram with plaster casts of tracks left in a field near the Colon Township home where Venus Stewart was staying with her parents. A woman who lives in the neighborhood says she saw a pickup, roughly matching the description of Stewart’s crew cab, parked in that field that morning, with a man crouching down behind it.

MSP Lt. Mike Risko says that Doug Stewart continues to be uncooperative with investigators (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/michigan_state_police_want_to.html) as of Thursday.

Friday - 8 May 2010: Police continue to state that they believe (http://www.wndu.com/hometop/headlines/93133274.html) that Venus Stewart's husband Douglas Stewart abducted her from her parents Colon Township home.

On Nancy Grace Friday night, Larry McComb, Venus' father, states that investigators took into their possession a plastic tarp wrapper that was found in the driveway on the morning of Venus' disappearance. McComb is certain that the wrapper is not his and states that he believes that it fell out of the vehicle of the person who abducted his daughter. McComb and his wife Therese also claim that Doug Stewart will not tell them whether or not he was at work on the day that Venus disappeared, instead claiming that he has told police all details of his whereabouts on Monday, April 26. Police continue to assert that Doug Stewart is not cooperating with the investigation.

Dana Jones, who lives at River Park Apartments, tells Newport News media (http://www.wvec.com/news/local/Search-for-missing-mom-brings-Michigan-State-troopers-to-Hampton-Roads-93173239.html) that, earlier in the investigation of Venus Stewart's disappearance, Michigan State Police had visited the high-rise apartment building where Doug Stewart lives, causing a commotion unusual for the apartment residents. Kiara Roundtree, whose boyfriend lives in the apartment building, said, "I saw, like, cops lined up, and people were just staring, like, wondering what's going on. People that live on the ninth floor were saying they saw the cops on the ninth floor, like, kind of knocking on someone's door."

Monday - 10 May 2010: An apparent blood stain was found in Douglas Stewart's truck, the Michigan State Police reported Monday afternoon (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/CNN-Evidence-found-vs-Venus-husband). Police executed search warrants at Stewart's Newport News, Va. home, where he once lived with Venus Stewart, who has been missing since April 26. The chemical the Michigan State Police Department uses to detect blood read positive on a portion of the truck's interior. The material is now at a lab, being tested. Police also found a Wal-Mart receipt for a shovel, tarp, cap and gloves, they confirm. The receipt was from April 25 -- the day before Venus disappeared -- from a Wal-Mart in Ohio. Douglas Stewart's truck was parked on the street a few blocks from his complex, the Newport News police reported -- despite Stewart having two reserved parking spots in the structure at his apartment complex.

Tuesday - May 11, 2010: Doug Stewart may have left Virginia (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Douglas-Stewart-person-of-interest) and may be headed to Michigan. He has relatives in Michigan who live near Venus Stewart's parents. Fulton, MI, is Doug's home town where he was raised. Police continue to stay that Doug Stewart is the only person of interest in the disappearance of his wife.

Wednesday - May 12, 2010: MSP renews its search effort (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/police_searching_area_in_st_jo.html) for Venus Stewart. Lt. Mike Risko refuses to say where in St. Joseph County the search is being conducted--later reported that nothing found during the search. Risko says that Doug Stewart may be back in Michigan (http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Focused-on-looking-for-Venus), perhaps to transfer to the Detroit area for a job with US Food Services, with whom he is currently employed. Lt. Risko states that he does not expect blood test results from the stains in the vehicles to be back today. Risko also states that MSP is still working on tire tread comparisons (http://www.wkzo.com/news/articles/2010/may/12/more-information-bring-released-abduction-case/) and MSP is bringing the Dodge Ram back to Michigan for further testing. Risko says they are planning to review surveillance video to see if Stewart shows up. Stewart claims that he was in Virginia at the time of the abduction.

Thursday - May 13, 2010: MSP continues to wait for blood analysis results. Denny Olson, a former leader in Michigan for the Guardian Angels, is organizing a search for Venus (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/organizer_of_search_friday_for.html) that will begin at 9 a.m. Friday at a park on West Colon Road near Sturgeon Lake. Volunteers will search from Colon north to Leonidas and Fulton and as far east as Interstate 69. Contact Denny at diehard1054@yahoo.com for more information.

Friday - May 14, 2010 - More people come forward (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/tire_marks_where_venus_stewart.html) to say that they saw Doug's silver Mercury Sable "cruising" around their former home in Schoolcraft, MI, on April 25. MSP awaits all test results on evidence from the car and truck. The tire imprint specialist is waiting on the arrival of the Dodge Ram from NNPD, in whose possession it has been since it was seized.

Also, 130 people turn out for a search for Venus (http://www.threeriversnews.com/articles/2010/05/15/news/local_news/doc4bedd193db528663825450.txt) organized by Denny Olson. Many of the searchers are friends, neighbors, or acquaintances of Venus and her family. “She was a very nice lady, she loved her girls, they were her top priority,” said Stephanie Thomas of Portage, who had worked with Venus in 2007 at National City Bank. Another former co-worker, Alicia Wallbridge, added, “She used to tell us, ‘If I come up missing, Doug’s killed me.’”

SEARCH WARRANTS SERVED ON DOUGLAS STEWART:

Search warrant for Douglas Stewart (http://woodtv.triton.net/news/search%20douglas%20stewart.PDF) (pdf)
Search warrant for Douglas Stewart's apartment (http://woodtv.triton.net/news/search%20apartment%20douglas%20stewart.PDF) (pdf)
Search warrant for Douglas Stewart's Dodge (http://woodtv.triton.net/news/search%20dodge%20douglas%20stewart.PDF) (pdf)
Search warrant for Douglas Stewart's Mercury (http://woodtv.triton.net/news/search%20mercury%20douglas%20stewart.PDF) (pdf)
Transcription of Search Warrants



WHO'S WHO IN THE VENUS STEWART CASE:

VS - Venus Rose McComb Stewart, 32, who disappeared from her parents home in Colon, MI, on 4-16-10.
DS - Douglas Harrie Stewart, 29, estranged husband of Venus Stewart; former Marine, currently a delivery truck driver.
LM - father of Venus Stewart, in whose home Venus and her children have lived since Feb. 2010.
TM - mother of Venus Stewart, in whose home Venus and children have lived since Feb. 2010.
BS - daughter, 5, of Venus and Doug Stewart.
RS - daughter, 3, of Venus and Doug Stewart.
DJ - Venus's older brother.
DES - Douglas Stewart's father, who lives seven miles from the McCombs' Driftwood Drive residence.
JS - Douglas Stewart's attorney.
MR - Lieutenant Mike Risko, MSP spokesman throughout the Venus Stewart case.



PLACES OF INTEREST:

DD - Driftwood Drive, where Venus was abducted.
NN - Newport News, where Doug Stewart currently lives.
SJC - St. Joseph's County, from which Venus was abducted.
Colon Township - Driftwood Drive is located on the very northern edge of Colon Twp.
Leonidas - community in which Doug's father's farm is located.



LOCAL MEDIA:

MLIVE (http://www.mlive.com) - Kalamazoo (MI) Gazette newspaper and local media site.
WTVB Radio (http://www.wtvbam.com/) - AM radio in Branch County, MI.
WOODTV (http://www.woodtv.com/) - NBC TV station in Grand Rapids, MI.
WZZM13 (http://www.wzzm13.com) - CBS TV station in Western Michigan.
WWMT (http://www.wwmt.com) - CBS station for Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, and Grand Rapids, MI.
WNDU (http://www.wndu.com) - NBC TV in South Bend, MI.
Daily Reporter (http://www.thedailyreporter.com/) - Coldwater, MI, newspaper.
Battle Creek Enquirer (http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com) - newspaper in Battle Creek, MI.
Sturgis Jornal (http://www.sturgisjournal.com) - Sturgis, MI, newspaper.
WAVY (http://www.wavy.com) - Newport News, VA, NBC TV station.
WVEC (http://www.wvec.com) - Hampton Roads, VA, ABC TV station.
DailyPress (http://www.dailypress.com/) - Newport News, VA, daily newspaper's website.



LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT NEWS:

MSP Twitter (http://twitter.com/michstatepolice) - official twitter account for Michigan State Police, frequently updated.
MSP News Releases (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586---,00.html) - official press releases by Michigan State Police.



CASE-RELATED LINKS:

Douglas Stewart's Myspace (http://www.myspace.com/dougstewart44) - see family videos.
Case Archive Album (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Venus%20Stewart/) - a must-see link of case-related photos compiled by WSer AmandaReckonwith (thanks!)
Map of case-related locations - under construction - check back soon.
Sierra1947 Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947) - archive of all Nancy Grace shows.



PREVIOUS THREADS AT WEBSLEUTHS ON VENUS'CASE

Thread 1 - 4/27/2010 to 5/07/2010
Thread 2 - 5/07/2010 to 5/10/2010
Thread 3 - 5/10/10 to 5/13/10
Thread 4 - 5/13/10 - 5/16/10

THE VICTIM - VENUS ROSE MCCOMB STEWART:

Venus Stewart is described as a white female, 5-feet, 4-inches tall and weighing 130 pounds. She has brown eyes and dark hair.

Click the image below to go to a slideshow of photos of Venus Stewart.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3769/venusj.jpg (http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003328.html)

IF YOU HAVE INFORMATION:

Police ask anyone with information about Venus Stewart’s whereabouts to call the State Police post in White Pigeon at 269-483-7611, or the MSP Rockford Regional Dispatch Center at (616) 866-6666 or 911.[/QUOTE]

BeanE
05-17-2010, 09:38 AM
pufnstuf, you are a gem!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your all your hard work on your excellent timeline and case notes!

:blowkiss:

Here's a :beagle: for you! :)

BeanE

BeanE
05-17-2010, 09:45 AM
Search continues for Venus Stewart
May 17, 2010 by WLKM

A search party that exceeded more than 100 volunteers came up empty Friday in search of clues related to the disappearance of 32-year-old Venus Stewart.

snip

Organized by Vicksburg resident Denny Olson, the foot search covered vast portions of Colon and Leonidas townships. Searchers ventured into heavily wooded areas, swamp banks and isolated pockets of land.

snip

In another matter related to Venus Stewart, Holy Angels Church in Sturgis is hosting a pancake breakfast Saturday, with proceeds to benefit the care of her two children, ages 3 and 5 years.

http://www.wlkm.com/?p=13332

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 09:52 AM
Area searched by volunteers on Friday, 14 May 2010:

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 09:53 AM
pufnstuf, you are a gem!

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for your all your hard work on your excellent timeline and case notes!

:blowkiss:

Here's a :beagle: for you! :)

BeanE

I love beagles! :D

:blush: Thanks for the kind words, Bean.

nursebeeme
05-17-2010, 09:58 AM
puffy, you rock! That has to be one of the best timelines I have ever seen put together! Bless you!

BeanE
05-17-2010, 10:08 AM
Hmmmm... Doug said Venus filed for divorce 3 times, but I just can't find anything on them. Was he mistruthificating?

Venus filed for divorce three times in two different counties and Douglas filed in Virginia, he said, but the couple stayed married.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/MSP-Colon-Twp-woman-possibly-abducted

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 10:18 AM
Hmmmm... Doug said Venus filed for divorce 3 times, but I just can't find anything on them. Was he mistruthificating?

Venus filed for divorce three times in two different counties and Douglas filed in Virginia, he said, but the couple stayed married.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/MSP-Colon-Twp-woman-possibly-abducted

He seems to be given to hyperbole.

An example:

In the second of three divorces he filed, he claimed that she hit him in the face five times, bloodying his nose.

In the subsequent application for PPO that he filed, he said of that incident that she hit him nine times and hit the child, too.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Orders of Protection, Domestic Violence, and Divorce Filings:


September 2007 - Doug Stewart files for divorce (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) from Venus Stewart but does not follow through.

June 2008 - An incident at the Schoolcraft house results in Venus being arrested for domestic violence. According to divorce papers filed by Doug a month later, Venus gave him a bloody nose (http://www.wwmt.com/articles/margin-1376536-bottom-page.html) and hit him five times in the face. However, records from that incident are no longer public, and St. Joseph County prosecutor says Venus likely completed a diversion course for the first domestic violence offense, thus having her record cleared.

July 2008 - Venus Stewartfiles for an order of protection against Douglas Stewart (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html). Venus wrote that Douglas Stewart abused her, made threats to take the couple’s two children and constantly badgered her for sex. “I am scared to death and every day I live in constant fear and I am constantly looking over my shoulder wondering when he will appear again,” she wrote. Douglas Stewart filed an objection to Venus's request for the order of protection. His objection was dismissed and Venus' protective order was granted.

July 2008 - Douglas Stewart files for divorce (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html), but does not follow through. Case dismissed in 2009.

August 2008 - Douglas Stewart answers Venus' protection order with a request for one of his own. He stated (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/michigan_state_police_remain_h.html) that in June 2008 she attacked him “with approximately nine blows to the face and also caused harm to my 3 1/2 year old’s head.” (Versus his earlier statement that she had hit him five times in the head.) “She has informed me on a daily basis that she will kill me for taking the kids away from her...I cannot live my life in constant fear that my kids and I are under attack ... I live my life in fear now and I fear the outcome of my children. Please help me. Please help her.” Granted.

October 2008 - Both protective orders by the Stewarts are dismissed.

November 2008 - Venus is charged with domestic violence, but several months later pleads no contest to disturbing the peace.

March 2009 - Venus Stewart files a second petition for a personal-protection (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html) order against her husband in March 2009, alleging that he threatened her and made a false criminal accusation against her father. “Once Doug loses all control over me he is going to hunt me down and kill me.... Now that I don’t have my parents to protect me and if he finds out where I am at he is going to kill me. It’s only a matter of time.” Welty denies the request for the protection order in 2009, saying the type of protection order requested by Stewart is "only for emergency situations, where there is clearly a danger of harm happening within the next few days. Your case does not seem to fit the urgent emergency criteria,” the denial said.

February 2010 - Venus again files for an order of protection--again stating that she feared that he would kill her--which is granted; and for temporary custody of the Stewarts' daughters, which is granted. Friends of Venus' recall her telling them (http://www.threeriversnews.com/articles/2010/05/15/news/local_news/doc4bedd193db528663825450.txt), "If I come up missing, Doug’s killed me."

March 2010 - Douglas Stewart again files for divorce (http://wasdmz2.courts.state.va.us/CJISWeb/MainMenu.do) from Venus, this time in Newport News Circuit Court. Divorce is currently pending.



So Venus' two acts of violence were years ago. Huh. That's interesting. And the latest two protection orders are requested by Venus against Doug. Not a peep of complaint out of Doug against Venus. Good. He hasn't been feeling threatened for years. Great to know.

The most recent protection order, which was granted and looks like still in effect was filed by Venus against Doug. So she was definitely the one under threat at the time of her disappearance and for months prior.

Great! This makes it much simpler. Venus was the one under threat, and she's the one who LE believe was abducted, and she's the one who's missing.

Doug is, and has been, perfectly fine and dandy. Well, except for that little sole person of interest in his wife's disappearance thing.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 10:47 AM
So Venus' two acts of violence were years ago. Huh. That's interesting. And the latest two protection orders are requested by Venus against Doug. Not a peep of complaint out of Doug against Venus. Good. He hasn't been feeling threatened for years. Great to know.

The most recent protection order, which was granted and looks like still in effect was filed by Venus against Doug. So she was definitely the one under threat at the time of her disappearance and for months prior.

Great! This makes it much simpler. Venus was the one under threat, and she's the one who LE believe was abducted, and she's the one who's missing.

Doug is, and has been, perfectly fine and dandy. Well, except for that little sole person of interest in his wife's disappearance thing.

Yes, that's the case, apparently. I recall reading that the PPO was in effect when she went missing. 1+1 usually = 2.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 10:52 AM
Yes, that's the case, apparently. I recall reading that the PPO was in effect when she went missing. 1+1 usually = 2.

Occam's Razor

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 11:09 AM
Yes, that's the case, apparently. I recall reading that the PPO was in effect when she went missing. 1+1 usually = 2.

I wish someone would go to the courthouse to have the clerk pull the case file and have copies made to scan then make available online.

Is there anyone reading this thread who is willing to do that? The case file is a matter of public record and the copying fee would not be that much.

Natal
05-17-2010, 12:10 PM
Hmmmm... Doug said Venus filed for divorce 3 times, but I just can't find anything on them. Was he mistruthificating?

Venus filed for divorce three times in two different counties and Douglas filed in Virginia, he said, but the couple stayed married.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/MSP-Colon-Twp-woman-possibly-abducted

The article isnt clear about who said that. It was after a citation from the father, so it was probably the father who said that. Likely he either misunderstood what Venus told him, or she was telling him things that weren't true.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 12:29 PM
The article isnt clear about who said that. It was after a citation from the father, so it was probably the father who said that. Likely he either misunderstood what Venus told him, or she was telling him things that weren't true.

Hmmm... I think you may well be right, that it was actually Venus' father. It's not clear the way it's written, but I do see what you mean.

AmandaReckonwith
05-17-2010, 12:31 PM
Case archive album:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Venus%20Stewart/

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 12:35 PM
Venus filed for divorce three times in two different counties and Douglas filed in Virginia, he said, but the couple stayed married.

I think she's saying that Doug said this, because she says "he said" right after mentioning Doug. Otherwise, she'd have said "Venus' father said."

MOO.

(I do agree that writing these days in news items is awful, though.)

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 01:15 PM
The article isnt clear about who said that. It was after a citation from the father, so it was probably the father who said that. Likely he either misunderstood what Venus told him, or she was telling him things that weren't true.

If Venus filed for divorce in St. Joseph County, Michigan, I don't know how someone would determine whether or not she filed by searching online as it doesn't appear they make any of their cases available.

If I'm wrong, please let us all know. Here's a link to St. Joseph's County Online Services: http://www.stjosephcountymi.org/onlineservices/

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 01:27 PM
Response from a Michigan State Police Officer - Why Venus's photo isn't featured on their Missing Persons Page

from John H. Slenk <slenkj@michigan.gov>
to XXXXXXXXX@gmail.com
date Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:26 AM
subject Ref Venus Rose Stewart
mailed-by michigan.gov

You asked a good and appropriate question about the State Police not featuring Venus Stewart on our Missing Person's page.

Criminal investigators constantly evaluate the progress of an investigation and the direction it is taking. There are times when we use certain investigative tools and not others dependant on the information available to us.

During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

I trust this will help answer your question. Thank you for your interest.

Sincerely D/F/Lt. John Slenk
Michigan State Police

Note: I replaced my e-mail prefix with XXXXXXXXX

mommame
05-17-2010, 01:29 PM
If Venus filed for divorce in St. Joseph County, Michigan, I don't know how someone would determine whether or not she filed by searching online as it doesn't appear they make any of their cases available.

If I'm wrong, please let us all know. Here's a link to St. Joseph's County Online Services: http://www.stjosephcountymi.org/onlineservices/

from the above link:No on line links to family Court

To obtain more information please contact the Court Division at (269) 467-5531

Some of the kinds of cases heard in the Family Division are:
Divorce
Custody
Paternity and support
Abuse and neglect
Juvenile delinquency matters
Waiver or parental consent
Adoption
Name change and emancipation

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 01:44 PM
Frank Blacks post previous thread.

That's just it. There is no evidence Doug bought the items at WalMart, is there? I haven't seen one news report claiming that he bought the items from WalMart and was the originator of the receipt found in the truck. It is also questionable to me why Doug would use the WalMart in Ohio, when he could have purchaased the items at a location much closer to his home, which would fit the profile. The WalMart in Ohio is one of the closest WalMarts to Colon County, so just because it is in another state is not indicative that an individual driving to Michigan from Virginia would use that particular WalMart. In fact, it smacks of someone from that area using the store since it is the closest WalMart. That means a local person to Colon County.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #4


Have they released exactly which Wal-Mart the receipt was from? I have not seen it.

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 01:52 PM
Response from a Michigan State Police Officer - Why Venus's photo isn't featured on their Missing Persons Page

from John H. Slenk <slenkj@michigan.gov>
to XXXXXXXXX@gmail.com
date Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:26 AM
subject Ref Venus Rose Stewart
mailed-by michigan.gov

You asked a good and appropriate question about the State Police not featuring Venus Stewart on our Missing Person's page.

Criminal investigators constantly evaluate the progress of an investigation and the direction it is taking. There are times when we use certain investigative tools and not others dependant on the information available to us.

During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

I trust this will help answer your question. Thank you for your interest.

Sincerely D/F/Lt. John Slenk
Michigan State Police

Note: I replaced my e-mail prefix with XXXXXXXXX

The only logical conclusion I can draw for this explanation is that law enforcement has enough evidence to determine Venus is dead!

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 01:58 PM
Response from a Michigan State Police Officer - Why Venus's photo isn't featured on their Missing Persons Page

from John H. Slenk <slenkj@michigan.gov>
to XXXXXXXXX@gmail.com
date Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:26 AM
subject Ref Venus Rose Stewart
mailed-by michigan.gov

You asked a good and appropriate question about the State Police not featuring Venus Stewart on our Missing Person's page.

Criminal investigators constantly evaluate the progress of an investigation and the direction it is taking. There are times when we use certain investigative tools and not others dependant on the information available to us.

During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

I trust this will help answer your question. Thank you for your interest.

Sincerely D/F/Lt. John Slenk
Michigan State Police

Note: I replaced my e-mail prefix with XXXXXXXXX

bbm


Thank You for doing this PickieChickie.

This is not good. This will not end well. I do not think Venus is with us any longer. jmo

thinkaboutthis
05-17-2010, 02:22 PM
The only logical conclusion I can draw for this explanation is that law enforcement has enough evidence to determine Venus is dead!

That is a compelling email. WOW. Possible Bombshell!!! Though I would find it difficult to believe someone at LE would throw a reckless bone out there in an email, but it's possible.

Well, thank you for emailing them about that. I was really wondering why they hadn't put her on there...Great job.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 02:34 PM
Personally, I would keep her picture out there in as many formats as possible in the hopes that someone saw her that day after the abduction. Maybe someone will have remembered seeing something. The posters could say, "Missing-Presumed Deceased."
I really hope they make an arrest soon. It's been 3 weeks today. LE needs to charge these guys even if a body hasn't been found if there is ample evidence these women haven't disappeared on their own, ie Craig Stebic, Drew Petersen, Josh Powell, and now Doug Stewart. I think they will find juries are reasonable people who can read between the lines. It's a dangerous precedent to allow these guys to be free simply because they have the ability to hide a body well.

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 02:35 PM
That is a compelling email. WOW. Possible Bombshell!!! Though I would find it difficult to believe someone at LE would throw a reckless bone out there in an email, but it's possible.

Well, thank you for emailing them about that. I was really wondering why they hadn't put her on there...Great job.

John H. Slank wrote: "During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance."

Clearly Venus is MISSING! We have the tarp cover, the scuffle evidence in the gravel by the cement walk, the slipper print on the side of the propane tank, the suspicious truck in the field across from Venus's residence, the Walmart receipt for a shovel, tarp, gloves and cap along with the fact she is MISSING!

To me, if all this, along with the fact she filed for and was granted a protective order and temporary custody of her children in which she reportedly declared she was afraid her husband Doug would kill her, it is clear she is MISSING and just didn't run off on a cruise with her secret lover!

To me he was saying, "We don't need to feature her on the page because of the evidence. We know she's missing but we don't need anyone looking for her because we have every reason to believe she is dead!"

UNLESS VENUS IS IN PROTECTIVE CUSTODY WITH THE SECRET WITNESS PROGRAM!

thesaint
05-17-2010, 03:34 PM
The only logical conclusion I can draw for this explanation is that law enforcement has enough evidence to determine Venus is dead!

How could they know that, without a body or a confession or an eyewitness?

It could also be that there's something else going on which takes this case out of the missing person category.

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by pufnstuf View Post
IF Douglas Stewart is tried for the murder of Venus, it will be up to the trial judge to determine what is admissible. Just because a prior court case is "resolved," it doesn't mean that the facts from that case can't be presented in another trial. It will be up to the judge whether or not prior abuse allegations will be considered. If so, then hearsay can be allowed under the equitable forfeiture condition. Look at the People v Bauder (MI) decision.


I was unable to directly click the quote button because the thread was closed.....but I was wondering what case this is? I tried but was unable to find it. I am curious because I am in Michigan and I know some Bauders... :crazy:

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 03:48 PM
I too have been guilty of suspecting DS in this 'abduction', BUT - what if some of this really is coincidental evidence that we are all reading too much into?

For example:

"What if" VS was outside talking on the phone 'for privacy' and happened to stand next to the gas tank and prop her foot against it at some point previous to the disappearance - like the day or 2 before? Hence - the footprint?

And.....

"What if" the tarp rapper is just that - a tarp wrapper? And it blew into their yard overnight from another neighbor or like someone else mentioned - a garbage truck? I know her dad said it wasn't his and there was 'no wind' that morning, but what about the night before? It was, after all early morning that someone discovered it? I have seen HUNDREDS of places that have tarps on sale right now, they are quite common.

And.....

The scuffle in the gravel? That could be where one of the girls just ran thru the day before, or maybe rode a bike thru and skidded. That was not a HUGE scuffle mark in the gravel like a big struggle took place - so it really could mean nothing.

I wish they'd find VS as much as anyone, but do you think that 'possibly' we read too much into minuscule pieces of 'possible' evidence?

I agree that the Wal-Mart receipt makes me VERY VERY curious as to his involvement, but so far it is quite strange to me that LE hasn't 'pressed the issue' too much with DS as of now. I'm sure they are watching his every move, but maybe they are just waiting on more conclusive evidence to come back. This seemed to be a cut and dried case at first - but the more it goes on, the more it becomes complicated. JMO of course....:blushing:

blackdog
05-17-2010, 03:55 PM
Do the police want any help looking for Venus. I'm ready to help.

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 03:59 PM
I too have been guilty of suspecting DS in this 'abduction', BUT - what if some of this really is coincidental evidence that we are all reading too much into?

For example:

"What if" VS was outside talking on the phone 'for privacy' and happened to stand next to the gas tank and prop her foot against it at some point previous to the disappearance - like the day or 2 before? Hence - the footprint?

And.....

"What if" the tarp rapper is just that - a tarp wrapper? And it blew into their yard overnight from another neighbor or like someone else mentioned - a garbage truck? I know her dad said it wasn't his and there was 'no wind' that morning, but what about the night before? It was, after all early morning that someone discovered it? I have seen HUNDREDS of places that have tarps on sale right now, they are quite common.

And.....

The scuffle in the gravel? That could be where one of the girls just ran thru the day before, or maybe rode a bike thru and skidded. That was not a HUGE scuffle mark in the gravel like a big struggle took place - so it really could mean nothing.

I wish they'd find VS as much as anyone, but do you think that 'possibly' we read too much into minuscule pieces of 'possible' evidence?

I agree that the Wal-Mart receipt makes me VERY VERY curious as to his involvement, but so far it is quite strange to me that LE hasn't 'pressed the issue' too much with DS as of now. I'm sure they are watching his every move, but maybe they are just waiting on more conclusive evidence to come back. This seemed to be a cut and dried case at first - but the more it goes on, the more it becomes complicated. JMO of course....:blushing:

I wrote a similar post last night. The receipt in the truck just seemed so obvious. " I did it come and get me". Up until that finding I was sure he did it, or hired someone. Now I am sitting on the fence, not sure which way to go.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 04:20 PM
Do the police want any help looking for Venus. I'm ready to help.

No, apparently they don't. But that's nice of you to want to help.

SBM
"The State Police don’t want us out here, but they need us out here,” Olson told the crowd of searchers who had gathered at Colon Community Park to get instructions for the sweep. The event was unofficial, since no law enforcement agency had sanctioned a search.
http://www.threeriversnews.com/articles/2010/05/15/news/local_news/doc4bedd193db528663825450.txt

Chili Fries
05-17-2010, 04:21 PM
How could they know that, without a body or a confession or an eyewitness?

It could also be that there's something else going on which takes this case out of the missing person category.

If they believe the blood in his vehicle(s) is from her then that's very strong evidence she is not still with us.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by pufnstuf View Post
IF Douglas Stewart is tried for the murder of Venus, it will be up to the trial judge to determine what is admissible. Just because a prior court case is "resolved," it doesn't mean that the facts from that case can't be presented in another trial. It will be up to the judge whether or not prior abuse allegations will be considered. If so, then hearsay can be allowed under the equitable forfeiture condition. Look at the People v Bauder (MI) decision.


I was unable to directly click the quote button because the thread was closed.....but I was wondering what case this is? I tried but was unable to find it. I am curious because I am in Michigan and I know some Bauders... :crazy:

Hi, marinemom...

Here's a transcription:

People v. Bauder
269 Mich App 174; 712 NW2d 506
(2005), lv den 476 Mich ___
(#130407, 8/29/06)
The defendant
forfeits his
Confrontation Right
by killing the victim,
no proof of intent to
make the witness
unavailable required
under “equitable
forfeiture.”

In Bauder, the defendant was charged with first degree murder. He stalked and then raped and killed his ex-girlfriend. He admitted to the killing but denied the premeditation. The prosecutor offered several statements of the victim under various exceptions of the hearsay rule. In response to the Confrontation Clause objection, the prosecutor argued that past acts of domestic violence proved that the defendant intended, at least in part, to make the victim unavailable to testify or otherwise disclose the abuse she suffered at his hand. In the alternative, the prosecutor argued that the defendant forfeited his right to confront the victim on equitable grounds. The Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction and adopted the concept of equitable forfeiture.

The Court of Appeals relied in part on the 6th Circuit case of United States v. Garcia-Meza (2005) in which the 6th Circuit said: "The Supreme Court's recent affirmation of the "essentially equitable grounds" for the rule of forfeiture strongly suggests that the rule's applicability does not hing on the wrongdoer's motive. The Defendant, regardless of whether he intended to prevent the witness from testifying against him or not, would benefit through his own wrongdoing if such a witness's statement could not be used against him, which the rule of forfeiture, based on principles of equity, does not permit."

Here's the link:

http://www.michiganprosecutor.org/Downloads/Webinars/forfeiture.pdf

Edit to add: The defendant's name was Steven Leroy Bauder. And I'm almost POSITIVE that this case was tried in St. Joseph County. Wow.

http://coa.courts.michigan.gov/resources/asp/ViewDocket.asp?casenumber=256186&yr=0&inqtype=public

,

thinkaboutthis
05-17-2010, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by thinkaboutthis
That is a compelling email. WOW. Possible Bombshell!!! Though I would find it difficult to believe someone at LE would throw a reckless bone out there in an email, but it's possible.

Well, thank you for emailing them about that. I was really wondering why they hadn't put her on there...Great job.

John H. Slank wrote: "During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance."

Clearly Venus is MISSING! We have the tarp cover, the scuffle evidence in the gravel by the cement walk, the slipper print on the side of the propane tank, the suspicious truck in the field across from Venus's residence, the Walmart receipt for a shovel, tarp, gloves and cap along with the fact she is MISSING!

To me, if all this, along with the fact she filed for and was granted a protective order and temporary custody of her children in which she reportedly declared she was afraid her husband Doug would kill her, it is clear she is MISSING and just didn't run off on a cruise with her secret lover!

To me he was saying, "We don't need to feature her on the page because of the evidence. We know she's missing but we don't need anyone looking for her because we have every reason to believe she is dead!"

UNLESS VENUS IS IN PROTECTIVE CUSTODY WITH THE SECRET WITNESS PROGRAM!

Okay, I'm confused as to why this was sent as a response to my statement. I said it was compelling...and a possible BOMBSHELL...what more do you want? How am I getting all this cruise ship stuff and MISSING MISSING MISSING? Did you think I was being sarcastic? Because I wasn't.

thinkaboutthis
05-17-2010, 04:37 PM
How could they know that, without a body or a confession or an eyewitness?

It could also be that there's something else going on which takes this case out of the missing person category.

Good point...yes, it very well could be something else...

blackdog
05-17-2010, 04:38 PM
I'll wait until they want help. This area has a lot of good woodsmen around, and they have no problem identifying areas of the ground that have been disturbed.

cluciano63
05-17-2010, 04:54 PM
The problem with the statement about not posting her on the website as missing, is she IS missing...even if she has been killed, her body is missing and needs to be found.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 04:55 PM
I love deconstruction...it's one of my favorite things i did in college. Figuring out exactly what someone is saying when they're carefully wording what they're saying.

Anyone want to give it a shot with me?

You asked a good and appropriate question about the State Police not featuring Venus Stewart on our Missing Person's page.
(Because you asked a valid question, I'm going to answer you as best I can.)


Criminal investigators constantly evaluate the progress of an investigation and the direction it is taking.
(We are working on this case as we receive evidence, and that evidence steers the way we investigate this case.)


There are times when we use certain investigative tools and not others dependant on the information available to us.
(We have information that we can't tell you that, if you knew, you'd understand why Venus isn't on the wanted page.)

During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.
(The public can't tell us anything that we don't already know. We know a lot more than we're telling and aren't relying on the public anymore for info.)

I trust this will help answer your question. Thank you for your interest.
(Notice I didn't say "if you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me again. I said, "Even though I'm speaking in guarded PR mode, my answer is sufficient to answer your question, so I don't expect you to ask any more questions." )


Now to put it all together:

Because you asked a valid question, I'm going to answer you as best I can. We are working on this case as we receive evidence, and that evidence steers the way we investigate this case. We have information that we can't tell you that, if you knew, you'd understand why Venus isn't on the wanted page. The public can't tell us anything that we don't already know. We know a lot more than we are releasing, and we no longer need tips from the public. Even though I'm speaking in guarded PR mode, my answer is sufficient to answer your question, so I don't expect you to ask any more questions. Thank you for your interest.

OK...anyone else want to give it a try?

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 04:59 PM
I'll wait until they want help. This area has a lot of good woodsmen around, and they have no problem identifying areas of the ground that have been disturbed.


You hunters are an untapped resource, in my opinion. I totally agree with you that hunters know the land better than anyone, and they also would be able to think of good places to conceal a body. All Michigan would have to do is open deer season for a special five days, and a hunter would find the grave, if she's buried in MI.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 05:01 PM
If they believe the blood in his vehicle(s) is from her then that's very strong evidence she is not still with us.
Hi Chili!
According to VS's mom, the blood in the truck is Doug's. There would have to be an awful lot of NEW blood in the Mercury for them to think she's deceased. If there is VS blood in there, it could be from a long time ago. I don't know how the Mercury fits in yet, except that there's blood in it and it was seen in their old neighborhood. I still can't wrap my brain around someone being so stupid to use and contaminate two vehicles for this when one would have sufficed.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 05:01 PM
Oh! And BTW, PickieChickie... GOOD JOB on the email!

blackdog
05-17-2010, 05:04 PM
Not easy to carry around 150 lbs of dead anything. Roll up three 50 lb bags of potatoes in a tarp and see how far you can go. If someone buried her, I bet it's within fifteen yards of a car access.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 05:06 PM
Great deconstruction, puf. I think that sums it up nicely.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 05:17 PM
During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.


The only logical conclusion I can draw for this explanation is that law enforcement has enough evidence to determine Venus is dead!

I'm afraid you're right, Pickie. :(

Thank you for taking the time to get this info, and for sharing it with us.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 05:28 PM
Personally, I would keep her picture out there in as many formats as possible

I agree, spam. Unless and until LE tells us officially there is no longer reason to believe a missing person is deceased, we should not turn our backs on them, but keep looking, keep trying to figure out what happened, keep sending in those tips and leads, and keep posting and giving out their picture.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 05:34 PM
Something else I've been wanting to mention. Doug has access to a front end loader on his father's tractor.

So, just thinking out loud...

Tarp bed of truck to contain bodily fluids, fibers, etc.
Grab Venus.
Subdue and kill Venus (bag over head, suffocation, break hyoid).
Throw her in the bed of the truck.
Haul ass to dad's house (four or five minute drive with no traffic)
Take Venus out of truck bed. Secure her in the tarp.
Throw her in the front-end loader of dad's trusty J. Deere.
Go to burial site, dump Venus, dig grave with front end loader (can be done quickly--ten minutes tops).
Push Venus into the grave with the front end loader, then cover her up. Whole burial takes 20 minutes at the longest.

Maybe Doug had an accomplice--one who lives straight up Fulton Road from the McCombs' house. Maybe his accomplice was the person who was seen squatting by the truck as Doug was behind the shed, hiding, and then abducting Venus. Accomplice drives the truck; Doug in bed of truck with Venus--doing the dirty work.

Anyways... I'm just throwing it out there.

From one of Doug's videos:

BeanE
05-17-2010, 05:39 PM
I too have been guilty of suspecting DS in this 'abduction', BUT - what if some of this really is coincidental evidence that we are all reading too much into?

For example:

"What if" VS was outside talking on the phone 'for privacy' and happened to stand next to the gas tank and prop her foot against it at some point previous to the disappearance - like the day or 2 before? Hence - the footprint?

And.....

"What if" the tarp rapper is just that - a tarp wrapper? And it blew into their yard overnight from another neighbor or like someone else mentioned - a garbage truck? I know her dad said it wasn't his and there was 'no wind' that morning, but what about the night before? It was, after all early morning that someone discovered it? I have seen HUNDREDS of places that have tarps on sale right now, they are quite common.

And.....

The scuffle in the gravel? That could be where one of the girls just ran thru the day before, or maybe rode a bike thru and skidded. That was not a HUGE scuffle mark in the gravel like a big struggle took place - so it really could mean nothing.

I wish they'd find VS as much as anyone, but do you think that 'possibly' we read too much into minuscule pieces of 'possible' evidence?

I agree that the Wal-Mart receipt makes me VERY VERY curious as to his involvement, but so far it is quite strange to me that LE hasn't 'pressed the issue' too much with DS as of now. I'm sure they are watching his every move, but maybe they are just waiting on more conclusive evidence to come back. This seemed to be a cut and dried case at first - but the more it goes on, the more it becomes complicated. JMO of course....:blushing:

There are lots of things that are possible. What we need to do in these cases is to pay attention to what LE is telling us, because they have far more information than we do. Then we need to collect and study the known facts of the case, and study them using logic and reason, to determine what is probable.

It is possible that missing persons have been sucked up into UFOs by extra-terrestrials, but it is not probable, and not helpful to the victim. While time is wasted on theories based on fantasy, fabrication, and political agendas, a victim awaits rescue and/or justice.

I'm a fact-and-probability-luvin' kinda gal, whose #1 goal is always to find out what happened to a victim, and try to tell their story.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 05:44 PM
Do the police want any help looking for Venus. I'm ready to help.

Hi blackdog. Welcome to Websleuths! Great to have you here.

How very kind of you to want to search for Venus. You can call MSP White Pigeon Post at 269-483-7611 or the State Police Regional Dispatch Center in Rockford at 616-866-6666 and ask if they need any volunteers.

There's also a gentleman who's been conducting searches. His name is escaping me at the moment (I have crap short term memory). I think it may be Dennis Olsen(?) I'll look it up for you and his contact info in just a moment.

Please let me know if there's anything I can assist you with.

Thanks -
BeanE

ETA: It's Denny Olsen, and you can contact him at his email, which is at the end of this article:
http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/organizer_of_search_friday_for.html

BeanE
05-17-2010, 05:45 PM
I wrote a similar post last night. The receipt in the truck just seemed so obvious. " I did it come and get me". Up until that finding I was sure he did it, or hired someone. Now I am sitting on the fence, not sure which way to go.

Do you think the state police and other agencies working on this case are incompetent?

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 05:48 PM
No, apparently they don't. But that's nice of you to want to help.

SBM
"The State Police don’t want us out here, but they need us out here,” Olson told the crowd of searchers who had gathered at Colon Community Park to get instructions for the sweep. The event was unofficial, since no law enforcement agency had sanctioned a search.
http://www.threeriversnews.com/articles/2010/05/15/news/local_news/doc4bedd193db528663825450.txt

But don't you think that that is because people are quite clumsy, and could disturb evidence or make it unusable if they do something wrong and touch it or move it or whatever? I think the police would prefer to keep people away for the sake of the investigation...but in reality they don't have the manpower to do ALL the searching in ALL the areas that need checked out.

It's kinda like............"we don't want you messing things up - BUT thank you if you find Venus or any strong evidence!"

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Something else I've been wanting to mention. Doug has access to a front end loader on his father's tractor.

So, just thinking out loud...

Tarp bed of truck to contain bodily fluids, fibers, etc.
Grab Venus.
Subdue and kill Venus (bag over head, suffocation, break hyoid).
Throw her in the bed of the truck.
Haul ass to dad's house (four or five minute drive with no traffic)
Take Venus out of truck bed. Secure her in the tarp.
Throw her in the front-end loader of dad's trusty J. Deere.
Go to burial site, dump Venus, dig grave with front end loader (can be done quickly--ten minutes tops).
Push Venus into the grave with the front end loader, then cover her up. Whole burial takes 20 minutes at the longest.

Maybe Doug had an accomplice--one who lives straight up Fulton Road from the McCombs' house. Maybe his accomplice was the person who was seen squatting by the truck as Doug was behind the shed, hiding, and then abducting Venus. Accomplice drives the truck; Doug in bed of truck with Venus--doing the dirty work.

Anyways... I'm just throwing it out there.

From one of Doug's videos:


Maybe they need to search his Dad's farm?

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 05:52 PM
Maybe they need to search his Dad's farm?

Remember last week, they searched a location that they would not divulge to the media.

I wonder....

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 05:54 PM
Remember last week, they searched a location that they would not divulge to the media.

I wonder....

It is close, familiar and isolated enough for privacy.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 05:56 PM
But don't you think that that is because people are quite clumsy, and could disturb evidence or make it unusable if they do something wrong and touch it or move it or whatever? I think the police would prefer to keep people away for the sake of the investigation...but in reality they don't have the manpower to do ALL the searching in ALL the areas that need checked out.

It's kinda like............"we don't want you messing things up - BUT thank you if you find Venus or any strong evidence!"

I don't know. If LE told me to stay out, I would stay out and not try to second guess their intentions.
A good thing would be to have TES out there, then that wouldn't be a problem. What I saw wasn't like the grid searches I've seen in other cases, so I think the area would have to be searched again to be cleared by LE. It's a nice gesture though, don't get me wrong. I am grateful for all those people out there taking the time to try and get the family closure.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 06:00 PM
May 12:

Police this morning were searching an area in St. Joseph County for evidence in the abduction of Venus Rose Stewart, authorities said.

“We’ve got people on the ground right now,” Michigan State Police Lt. Mike Risko said. Risko declined to say where police were conducting their search.


http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/05/police_searching_area_in_st_jo.html

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 06:00 PM
It is close, familiar and isolated enough for privacy.

And a creek runs through it. Loose gravel. Loamy soil.

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 06:01 PM
[QUOTE=pufnstuf;5196030]You hunters are an untapped resource, in my opinion. I totally agree with you that hunters know the land better than anyone, and they also would be able to think of good places to conceal a body. All Michigan would have to do is open deer season for a special five days, and a hunter would find the grave, if she's buried in MI.[/QUOTE)]

NOT FUNNY....BUT probably very true! ;)

(And I know you were not making a joke, I was just meaning that if they did that, you're right - they'd probably come across the body IF she is buried here in MI.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 06:02 PM
I don't know. If LE told me to stay out, I would stay out and not try to second guess their intentions.
A good thing would be to have TES out there, then that wouldn't be a problem. What I saw wasn't like the grid searches I've seen in other cases, so I think the area would have to be searched again to be cleared by LE. It's a nice gesture though, don't get me wrong. I am grateful for all those people out there taking the time to try and get the family closure.

THIS!

Like
Like
Like.

I would like to see Denny and Tim get together and work it out. Bet they could find her.

pufnstuf
05-17-2010, 06:04 PM
You hunters are an untapped resource, in my opinion. I totally agree with you that hunters know the land better than anyone, and they also would be able to think of good places to conceal a body. All Michigan would have to do is open deer season for a special five days, and a hunter would find the grave, if she's buried in MI.

NOT FUNNY....BUT probably very true! ;)

(And I know you were not making a joke, I was just meaning that if they did that, you're right - they'd probably come across the body IF she is buried here in MI.

I was kinda making a joke--about the five-day deer season. I know deer hunters around my area. They'll chase a white tail through brush, bramble, up a 90 degree angle cliff, through a creek in the middle of winter. They know the layout of the land. :)

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 06:05 PM
I agree, spam. Unless and until LE tells us officially there is no longer reason to believe a missing person is deceased, we should not turn our backs on them, but keep looking, keep trying to figure out what happened, keep sending in those tips and leads, and keep posting and giving out their picture.

I agree. Especially since she IS STILL MISSING! (whether she is deceased or not, she is still not accounted for) It sure seems like they would say something IF they had found a body. :waitasec:

spamelope
05-17-2010, 06:07 PM
"Remains found by hunter". Indeed, how many times have we read that? It's almost cliche.
I bet the search was on GpaS's farm. Or the Schoolcraft property. Hopefully, they've searched both.

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 06:08 PM
Do you think the state police and other agencies working on this case are incompetent?

I will say that some LE agencies are incompetent. On this case I do not believe they are. They have not arrested him, yet all evidence is pointing towards him.I was ready to convict Doug until some of this evidence just seems too convenient. Almost unbelievable. I am starting to wonder if he is being framed.
We know LE has the Wal-Mart receipt, I'll also bet they have the video of who was buying the items. Something tells me it was not Doug. Did he hire someone? Is he being framed? Hence my post where I said I am sitting on the fence right now. Just my opinion.

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 06:10 PM
There are lots of things that are possible. What we need to do in these cases is to pay attention to what LE is telling us, because they have far more information than we do. Then we need to collect and study the known facts of the case, and study them using logic and reason, to determine what is probable.

It is possible that missing persons have been sucked up into UFOs by extra-terrestrials, but it is not probable, and not helpful to the victim. While time is wasted on theories based on fantasy, fabrication, and political agendas, a victim awaits rescue and/or justice.

I'm a fact-and-probability-luvin' kinda gal, whose #1 goal is always to find out what happened to a victim, and try to tell their story.



Oh I absolutely agree - (especially since I am a crime victim myself. My child was murdered) I was just throwing out some ideas that I maybe chose not to see in the beginning...that's all.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 06:12 PM
I will say that some LE agencies are incompetent. On this case I do not believe they are. They have not arrested him, yet all evidence is pointing towards him.I was ready to convict Doug until some of this evidence just seems too convenient. Almost unbelievable. I am starting to wonder if he is being framed.
We know LE has the Wal-Mart receipt, I'll also bet they have the video of who was buying the items. Something tells me it was not Doug. Did he hire someone? Is he being framed? Hence my post where I said I am sitting on the fence right now. Just my opinion.

Or did it just happen to be a stranger abduction?

Possibility vs probability. Occam's Razor. Good stuff.

RubyRed
05-17-2010, 06:16 PM
Oh I absolutely agree - (especially since I am a crime victim myself. My child was murdered) I was just throwing out some ideas that I maybe chose not to see in the beginning...that's all.

(((((hugs))))) Marinemom.

maggieo
05-17-2010, 06:17 PM
"What if" the tarp rapper is just that - a tarp wrapper? And it blew into their yard overnight from another neighbor or like someone else mentioned - a garbage truck? I know her dad said it wasn't his and there was 'no wind' that morning, but what about the night before? It was, after all early morning that someone discovered it? I have seen HUNDREDS of places that have tarps on sale right now, they are quite common.:

respectfully snipped

I agree with you about most of these tiny "clues," but I think the tarp wrapper is significant. I live in an area similar to VS's parents' neighborhood -- "ruralurbia" with lots of woods -- and I would find it very weird to find a stray tarp wrapper in my driveway. Technically it could happen... but I can't think of ever finding anyone's garbage there (a few McDonald's bags in the woods, though, for sure).

Since there was a tarp mentioned on the receipt, I find it very ominous. It would be quite a coincidence if they're unrelated.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 06:24 PM
My deepest sympathies, Marinemom. How horrible for you! I can't even imagine. I hope there was justice in the case. Virtual hugs to you.

BeanE
05-17-2010, 06:35 PM
Oh I absolutely agree - (especially since I am a crime victim myself. My child was murdered) I was just throwing out some ideas that I maybe chose not to see in the beginning...that's all.

I'm so terribly sorry about your child, Marinemom. Bless you.

Hugs,
BeanE

spamelope
05-17-2010, 06:36 PM
Or did it just happen to be a stranger abduction?

Possibility vs probability. Occam's Razor. Good stuff.

But just because something is more probable, doesn't make it so. There are things that defy the odds every day. Bizarre things DO happen at times.
My chain of thought has changed so many times on this case it's not even funny. My knee jerk reaction when this was first reported was "That B@$t@rd DS!" Then, "oh, my maybe he hired a hit man or something." To "Hm, this is too pat, I wonder if he's being framed?" Possible too is that he has laid out all these clues to cause reasonable doubt ie, " but would I be that stupid to leave all that evidence that points to me?" It could even be the thing that came from the swamp for all we know. We just don't know.

believe09
05-17-2010, 06:56 PM
John H. Slank wrote: "During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance."

Clearly Venus is MISSING! We have the tarp cover, the scuffle evidence in the gravel by the cement walk, the slipper print on the side of the propane tank, the suspicious truck in the field across from Venus's residence, the Walmart receipt for a shovel, tarp, gloves and cap along with the fact she is MISSING!

To me, if all this, along with the fact she filed for and was granted a protective order and temporary custody of her children in which she reportedly declared she was afraid her husband Doug would kill her, it is clear she is MISSING and just didn't run off on a cruise with her secret lover!

To me he was saying, "We don't need to feature her on the page because of the evidence. We know she's missing but we don't need anyone looking for her because we have every reason to believe she is dead!"


UNLESS VENUS IS IN PROTECTIVE CUSTODY WITH THE SECRET WITNESS PROGRAM!



Hmmm-I do not believe that there would be kind of hue and cry for someone who is in a federal or state WPP...she would have been taken in with the kids and disappeared from there. She would not relocate and disappear from her parents home while her possible ex is hung out to dry for her disappearance. That is a little too conspiracy for me.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 07:00 PM
To me, it would be a logical assumption to think that VS could have been thrown in the river. (Sorry, that sounds so cold.) So much easier than having to dig a grave when time is of the essence. And the St Joseph river is literally right there. Far less likelihood of her ever being found. Here's some info on the river.
MCBA LOGO Always look for the Michigan Charter Boat Association
logo when choosing your Lake MICHIGAN Fishing
Charter Captain from ST. JOSEPH RIVER, Michigan

Thousands-upon-thousands of steelhead enter the St. Joseph river every year. The "St. Joe" River is a very large river with intense flow. At times the river can't be waded so Charter Boat fishing is most popular. Through-out the river system you will find large deep runs and pools which hold schools of spawning skamania steelhead and chinook salmon. The St. Joseph also has a much better catch ratio than other Michigan waters. According to the Michigan DNR between 14,000 and 19,000 steelhead are caught each year on the St. Joseph and another 8,000 to 17,000 caught and released," The River originates in Michigan and gains its fast moving currents from many of the tributaries along the way. It passes the town of Three Rivers and then dips southwest towards Indiana. Once across the Indiana border the river flows past Elkhart, Mishawaka, South Bend while turning northwest back towards Michigan. Back across the Michigan border the St. Joseph River passes Berrien Springs before making its way to the town of St. Joseph on the southeast shore of Lake Michigan.
http://www.michigancharterboats.com/page.php?lake=MICHIGAN&port=ST.%20JOSEPH%20RIVER

At at least one point, the river is 20 ft deep.

Natal
05-17-2010, 07:38 PM
Response from a Michigan State Police Officer - Why Venus's photo isn't featured on their Missing Persons Page

from John H. Slenk <slenkj@michigan.gov>
to XXXXXXXXX@gmail.com
date Mon, May 17, 2010 at 10:26 AM
subject Ref Venus Rose Stewart
mailed-by michigan.gov

You asked a good and appropriate question about the State Police not featuring Venus Stewart on our Missing Person's page.

Criminal investigators constantly evaluate the progress of an investigation and the direction it is taking. There are times when we use certain investigative tools and not others dependant on the information available to us.

During this investigation we felt it would not benefit the investigation to post Venus on the Missing Person page, due to the amount of information investigators already have regarding the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.

I trust this will help answer your question. Thank you for your interest.

Sincerely D/F/Lt. John Slenk
Michigan State Police

Note: I replaced my e-mail prefix with XXXXXXXXX

I think basically what they are saying is that they have enough information to actively pursue investigations, whereas the folk on that page are essentially "cold cases" where they don't have anything else to go on. Sadly, for those people the investigation is essentially that webpage and not much more.

Natal
05-17-2010, 07:52 PM
Hi, marinemom...

Here's a transcription:

People v. Bauder
269 Mich App 174; 712 NW2d 506
(2005), lv den 476 Mich ___
(#130407, 8/29/06)
The defendant
forfeits his
Confrontation Right
by killing the victim,
no proof of intent to
make the witness
unavailable required
under “equitable
forfeiture.”

In Bauder, the defendant was charged with first degree murder. He stalked and then raped and killed his ex-girlfriend. He admitted to the killing but denied the premeditation. The prosecutor offered several statements of the victim under various exceptions of the hearsay rule. In response to the Confrontation Clause objection, the prosecutor argued that past acts of domestic violence proved that the defendant intended, at least in part, to make the victim unavailable to testify or otherwise disclose the abuse she suffered at his hand. In the alternative, the prosecutor argued that the defendant forfeited his right to confront the victim on equitable grounds. The Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction and adopted the concept of equitable forfeiture.

The Court of Appeals relied in part on the 6th Circuit case of United States v. Garcia-Meza (2005) in which the 6th Circuit said: "The Supreme Court's recent affirmation of the "essentially equitable grounds" for the rule of forfeiture strongly suggests that the rule's applicability does not hing on the wrongdoer's motive. The Defendant, regardless of whether he intended to prevent the witness from testifying against him or not, would benefit through his own wrongdoing if such a witness's statement could not be used against him, which the rule of forfeiture, based on principles of equity, does not permit."

Here's the link:

http://www.michiganprosecutor.org/Downloads/Webinars/forfeiture.pdf

Edit to add: The defendant's name was Steven Leroy Bauder. And I'm almost POSITIVE that this case was tried in St. Joseph County. Wow.

http://coa.courts.michigan.gov/resources/asp/ViewDocket.asp?casenumber=256186&yr=0&inqtype=public

,

That wouldn't be applicable in this case because the attacks on DS and motivations discussed by the co-worker you cited relate to cases which had allready appeared before the court. Consequently the judge would give precedence to that evidence over any hearsay from this co-worker. VS would allready have been provided the opportunity to testify when she was alive, and she either waived that right or was found not to be credible. So the prosecution can't come in later and say "oh, ignore those earlier court proceedings and let us take this hearsay evidence instead".

Marinemom
05-17-2010, 07:54 PM
That wouldn't be applicable in this case because the attacks on DS and motivations discussed by the co-worker you cited relate to cases which had allready appeared before the court. Consequently the judge would give precedence to that evidence over any hearsay from this co-worker. VS would allready have been provided the opportunity to testify when she was alive, and she either waived that right or was found not to be credible. So the prosecution can't come in later and say "oh, ignore those earlier court proceedings and let us take this hearsay evidence instead".

I was only asking Puf for a link to that case. Not that it meant anything in this one, but I know of some Bauders in MI and just was curious. That's all...

blackdog
05-17-2010, 08:28 PM
I wonder what time the mail man passed by each day. Seven seems early to put the mail out.

thinkaboutthis
05-17-2010, 08:38 PM
Or did it just happen to be a stranger abduction?

Possibility vs probability. Occam's Razor. Good stuff.

You cannot just Occam's Razor everything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science

Among the many difficulties that arise in trying to apply Ockham's razor is the problem of formalizing and quantifying the "measure of simplicity" that is implied by the task of deciding which of several theories is the simplest. Although various measures of simplicity have been brought forward as potential candidates from time to time, it is generally recognized that there is no such thing as a theory-independent measure of simplicity. In other words, there appear to be as many different measures of simplicity as there are theories themselves, and the task of choosing between measures of simplicity appears to be every bit as problematic as the job of choosing between theories. Moreover, it is extremely difficult to identify the hypotheses or theories that have "comparable explanatory power", though it may be readily possible to rule out some of the extremes. Ockham's razor also does not say that the simplest account is to be preferred regardless of its capacity to explain outliers, exceptions, or other phenomena in question.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 08:45 PM
I wonder what time the mail man passed by each day. Seven seems early to put the mail out.
Welcome to ws, blackdog!

I meant to call the PO in Colon today to see what time the mail is delivered, and I spaced it. Maybe if I immortalize this in a post, I will remember tomorrow.

blackdog
05-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Thank you, I keep wondering if it was a planed meeting. Id like to see the phone records.

Natal
05-17-2010, 08:52 PM
I wonder what time the mail man passed by each day. Seven seems early to put the mail out.

That may just be a convenient time for her. It's not like the mail will be going anywhere before the mailman shows up :)

BeanE
05-17-2010, 08:58 PM
You cannot just Occam's Razor everything.



Yes, yes I can.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 09:09 PM
I really wouldn't think much of someone taking a few minutes to go 160 ft while the kids were in the house unsupervised, but the house in question is on a river. I would never, ever leave them, not for one minute. I would have waited til my dad woke up.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99431&highlight=nicolas+pineault

spamelope
05-17-2010, 09:11 PM
Thank you, I keep wondering if it was a planed meeting. Id like to see the phone records.
Do you mean planned with the mailman?
:waitasec:

blackdog
05-17-2010, 09:25 PM
Yes, I need to get hooked on phonics. :blushing:

blackdog
05-17-2010, 09:31 PM
The relationship seems more like an addiction. I wonder if Venus and Doug (the husband) were meeting.

Beyond Belief
05-17-2010, 09:36 PM
You mean she was expecting him?

mommame
05-17-2010, 09:37 PM
The relationship seems more like an addiction. I wonder if Venus and Doug (the husband) were meeting.

I am going to say, I doubt it, since he says he was supposedly not even in Mi at the time she disappeared............:waitasec:

blackdog
05-17-2010, 09:44 PM
I try to imagine someone sitting behind a wood pile, possibly all day holding a tarp, in broad daylight with the idea Venus might come outside.

panthera
05-17-2010, 09:58 PM
That may just be a convenient time for her. It's not like the mail will be going anywhere before the mailman shows up :)
I also think it's possibile she just put it out there when she was thinking about it so not to forget later on. MOO

panthera
05-17-2010, 10:03 PM
Nothing in a Google search for "news". :(

AmandaReckonwith
05-17-2010, 10:11 PM
Sturgeon Lake is the main lake in Colon. But lots of small lakes nearby.

LIONKING21
05-17-2010, 10:14 PM
My personal opinion is that they do not want him to flee or cause any harm to anyone else. In the Marines, he was a decorated sniper in the Middle East, I am guessing they do not want anyone else harmed and would want to grab him the minute they have what they need

spamelope
05-17-2010, 10:14 PM
Could it be the river? That makes the most sense to me.

Amster
05-17-2010, 10:15 PM
Media listens to scanner traffic....seems they would be all over it.

cluciano63
05-17-2010, 10:15 PM
Hypothetically, if LE found or was made aware of a body and was able to identify the person, wouldn't they have at least a moral resposibility to let public know, only because search parties are still forming and going out searching? Just wondering. I know this case is far from that point, but I can't recall a case when a body has been found and this info is kept back. Media almost always catches on, in any case.

cluciano63
05-17-2010, 10:17 PM
PS- Not to mention it is almost always someone besides LE that makes these finds...a fisherman, a boater, etc...no offense to LE intended.

mommame
05-17-2010, 10:19 PM
having been born and raised in Mi ( Although NOT that area) I think that there is a possibility that it could be a lake that maybe has a remote lake access area... or even an area which could be reached without to much difficulty and still not be seen, even in daylight. I know Mi has many lakes some small others large and many of them are remote. It always seemed to me that when ever my husband wanted to check out a new lake he had heard about that the lake access areas were always in remote areas with no one around them much.

Beyond Belief
05-17-2010, 10:26 PM
Now I missed something, :banghead:.
I wish they would resolve this very very scary case. The perp needs to be picked up asap.

spamelope
05-17-2010, 10:35 PM
Hypothetically, if LE found or was made aware of a body and was able to identify the person, wouldn't they have at least a moral resposibility to let public know, only because search parties are still forming and going out searching? Just wondering. I know this case is far from that point, but I can't recall a case when a body has been found and this info is kept back. Media almost always catches on, in any case.
Yes, I'm sure the media would be all over this. If locals are hearing rumors, they are too.

eyes4crime
05-17-2010, 10:39 PM
My personal opinion is that they do not want him to flee or cause any harm to anyone else. In the Marines, he was a decorated sniper in the Middle East, I am guessing they do not want anyone else harmed and would want to grab him the minute they have what they need

How would a wife fight a man with his experience and training. Yikes, talking about being one up - and he reports Venus for giving him a nose bleed? A real bullly!

BeanE
05-17-2010, 10:39 PM
So, what were we talking about? Oh yeah.

The relationship seems more like an addiction. I wonder if Venus and Doug (the husband) were meeting.

I'm 50/50 on this. On one hand, I doubt it, because Venus was feeling so very threatened by him - she hightailed it out of Virginia, moved several states away, and got an order or protection against him. She feared he was going to kill her. That tells me it's unlikely that she would put herself in danger.

On the other hand, he may well have been escalating his threats, perhaps even threatening to harm or take the children. She may, in her fear and anxiety, have thought she could prevent him from harming herself or her loved ones by meeting with him.

cj1132
05-17-2010, 10:42 PM
I was thinking about the two vehicles and whether they were both seen in MI. Is it possible DS intended to take Venus and the other vehicle was intended for the children so they wouldn't see anything? Maybe Venus messed up the plan because she was outside and saw something and the element of surprise was gone as far as barging into the house and taking both Venus and the children.

Beyond Belief
05-17-2010, 10:45 PM
Someone in possession of a shovel only has one thing in mind. DIGGING and not to plant flowers.

Chili Fries
05-17-2010, 10:56 PM
Radio Reference has a St Joseph County scanner link. The chatter tonight is very sparse.

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/audio/?feedId=3671

blackdog
05-17-2010, 10:57 PM
My personal opinion is that they do not want him to flee or cause any harm to anyone else. In the Marines, he was a decorated sniper in the Middle East, I am guessing they do not want anyone else harmed and would want to grab him the minute they have what they need

He was trained to kill; this is something knew to me.

Cubby
05-17-2010, 11:01 PM
Just an FYI- I removed several posts which were in response to/discussion regarding a post which was removed.

LIONKING21
05-17-2010, 11:05 PM
Thank you

spamelope
05-17-2010, 11:09 PM
Just an FYI- I removed several posts which were in response to/discussion regarding a post which was removed.

Ty and Ty for the Steve Goodman nod.
Go, Cubby, Go lol

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by thinkaboutthis
That is a compelling email. WOW. Possible Bombshell!!! Though I would find it difficult to believe someone at LE would throw a reckless bone out there in an email, but it's possible.

Well, thank you for emailing them about that. I was really wondering why they hadn't put her on there...Great job.



Okay, I'm confused as to why this was sent as a response to my statement. I said it was compelling...and a possible BOMBSHELL...what more do you want? How am I getting all this cruise ship stuff and MISSING MISSING MISSING? Did you think I was being sarcastic? Because I wasn't.

I was agreeing with you and elaborating a bit more.

LIONKING21
05-17-2010, 11:12 PM
I am going to bed for the night, I will post in the morning if I hear anything more rock solid. What I posted tonight, I also beleive to be rock solid, but until verified, I understand and respect the rules here . Thanks

PickieChickie
05-17-2010, 11:22 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif Why was the guy squatting behind the truck? Maybe he couldn't hold it anymore and had to go poop! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/ffj/floorlaugh.gif

Scuffle evidence in gravel: Kids riding bikes
Slipper print on propane tank: Venus putting her foot up there while smoking and talking on the cell
Tarp cover found in immediate area: Flew out of garbage truck
Guy squatting behind truck: Going poop

pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 12:47 AM
My personal opinion is that they do not want him to flee or cause any harm to anyone else. In the Marines, he was a decorated sniper in the Middle East, I am guessing they do not want anyone else harmed and would want to grab him the minute they have what they need

Did not know this! Thanks for the info.

crystalgenie
05-18-2010, 05:17 AM
My personal opinion is that they do not want him to flee or cause any harm to anyone else. In the Marines, he was a decorated sniper in the Middle East, I am guessing they do not want anyone else harmed and would want to grab him the minute they have what they need

I'm sorry but I must have missed the link that he was a decorated sniper. Do you have the link? All I've seen in the papers is he was a marine not a decorated sniper. It would be an interesting read although it doesn't really matter... Venus wasn't shot in her drive way and for a decorated sniper I haven't seen guns registered to him or found in the searches.

pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 06:34 AM
Transcription of Venus' handwritten notes found by her father Larry McComb (as well as I can... it's so blurry in the video). I've attached this as a file, so if you don't want to read this, you can move on by. Names and places are subbed with asterisks.

Calliope
05-18-2010, 06:48 AM
I will say that some LE agencies are incompetent. On this case I do not believe they are. They have not arrested him, yet all evidence is pointing towards him.I was ready to convict Doug until some of this evidence just seems too convenient. Almost unbelievable. I am starting to wonder if he is being framed.
We know LE has the Wal-Mart receipt, I'll also bet they have the video of who was buying the items. Something tells me it was not Doug. Did he hire someone? Is he being framed? Hence my post where I said I am sitting on the fence right now. Just my opinion.

This.

Calliope
05-18-2010, 07:14 AM
How would a wife fight a man with his experience and training. Yikes, talking about being one up - and he reports Venus for giving him a nose bleed? A real bullly!

IIRC, police were called and found him with the bloody nose, he was the one with injuries and she was charged. Since he was the victim in this case, and she apparently the one who caused his injuries, I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting he should have punched her back? IMO, this sort of mentality is why abused men so rarely report their injuries and pursue charges against their partners. Abuse is abuse. There is no justification, no matter what the gender of the victim.

Yeah, I know. She's the one missing and he's running free and this is old news and not relevant to the case. I'm sorry, but it IS relevant. We've basically only heard one side regarding their marriage. Apart from the media reporting her arrest, all we know is coming from her side regarding how abusive DS was. Maybe he was. I think it's apparent they both were abusive and violent in this relationship. And if she was violent and wanting to hurt him even more, well...

Calliope
05-18-2010, 07:17 AM
Someone in possession of a shovel only has one thing in mind. DIGGING and not to plant flowers.

I've been mostly on Ethan's thread lately. Did I miss something here? They found the shovel in Doug's possession?

Calliope
05-18-2010, 07:20 AM
He was trained to kill; this is something knew to me.

He was in the military. That's what they're all trained to do.

If he was going to use his skills as a sniper, why bother to go to all the trouble and expense of setting up an alibi, traveling to Michigan, abducting her in broad daylight with so many potential witnesses and leave such incriminating evidence behind?

Calliope
05-18-2010, 07:23 AM
I'm sorry but I must have missed the link that he was a decorated sniper. Do you have the link? All I've seen in the papers is he was a marine not a decorated sniper. It would be an interesting read although it doesn't really matter... Venus wasn't shot in her drive way and for a decorated sniper I haven't seen guns registered to him or found in the searches.

Along with him being found in possession of the shovel, I guess I missed this too.

ATWC66
05-18-2010, 07:35 AM
Has the title always read "Abducted"? I've been away for a few days & that word just popped out to me.
I'm starting to wonder if we will ever find her.

LIONKING21
05-18-2010, 08:09 AM
Good Morning
I was the one that stated that DS was a decorated sniper in the Marines. This is just what I know, being from the same area as DS. I don't think anyone thinks that he would have taken her this way, and I do not remember seeing anything about him being in possession of a shovel. I think the fact that he was a sniper, may have them proceeding with more caution ???? JMHO

Thanks

spamelope
05-18-2010, 08:09 AM
Thank you puf, for that transcription. I think. Someday that little girl will google this case, and find this. I hope she has a good therapist. It was sick to put this out for public consumption. The media should have taken the high road and declined to publish this.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 08:13 AM
COLON — The Michigan State Police continue to search for 32-year-old Venus Rose Stewart three weeks after her disappearance from Colon Township in St. Joseph County (Mich.).

Click here to learn more.
It is believed that Stewart was abducted from her parents' home the morning of April 26. She was last seen wearing pajamas.


http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100518/News01/5180362/-1/googleNews

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 08:18 AM
You know, "WetMan" the guy in the sketch still puzzles me. Still has NOT been identified, AND...triggered the most intense searches for Venus by LE at Adams Lake...MULTIPLE TIMES. How does this person fit into the equation? Multiple witnesses saw this person and even spoke with him, hard to debate against the fact that he exists and is suspicious. Was he an accomplice of DS? I wonder if he had any kind of regional accent when he spoke with the lake residents? Is this person on the Walmart tape?

spamelope
05-18-2010, 08:19 AM
Has the title always read "Abducted"? I've been away for a few days & that word just popped out to me.
I'm starting to wonder if we will ever find her.
Welcome back, ATWC66! Yes, I think from the very beginning this was assumed to be an abduction.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 08:28 AM
You know, "WetMan" the guy in the sketch still puzzles me. Still has NOT been identified, AND...triggered the most intense searches for Venus by LE at Adams Lake...MULTIPLE TIMES. How does this person fit into the equation? Multiple witnesses saw this person and even spoke with him, hard to debate against the fact that he exists and is suspicious. Was he an accomplice of DS? I wonder if he had any kind of regional accent when he spoke with the lake residents? Is this person on the Walmart tape?

I'm pretty sure WetMan has been cleared by the lady at the dollar store.

believe09
05-18-2010, 08:41 AM
Thank you puf, for that transcription. I think. Someday that little girl will google this case, and find this. I hope she has a good therapist. It was sick to put this out for public consumption. The media should have taken the high road and declined to publish this.

I dont know if I agree completely with your take on this, although I respect your view point, and here is why: I can envision a desperate parent who may believe that his daughter needs to be vindicated-a father who believes that his grandchildren were hurt in some way by their father and who believes his daughter's unremitting fear that she will be killed by this man. He may have impulsively done this because this was all the proof he needed....I am not ready to believe he intentionally victimized his grandchildren by releasing the notes, and I doubt he could have even done so without the permission of LE....JMO.

believe09
05-18-2010, 08:43 AM
I'm pretty sure WetMan has been cleared by the lady at the dollar store.

Can you help me find a link to this?? I am not turning anything up indicating this info...

spamelope
05-18-2010, 09:01 AM
Can you help me find a link to this?? I am not turning anything up indicating this info...
LARRY MCCOMB: I`m as sure that he took her as I am of my name. That`s all there is to it, Nancy. I`m positive. This other fellow they run the sketch around, lady at the Dollar Store says he`s a local boy. I think these conversations have gotten confused or exaggerated. I don`t know. Doug Stewart is the man that took my daughter.

Good morning, believe. Here you go.

GRACE: And another thing, Mr. McComb, Larry, this guy that was at the lake does not seem to bear a resemblance to whoever was parked across from your house the morning she was taken.

THERESE MCCOMB: No.

LARRY MCCOMB: That`s right, Nancy. That`s because he wasn`t the man.

GRACE: Larry, have you talked to the neighbor that saw the pick-up in the field?

LARRY MCCOMB: No, I haven`t. I don`t know if it was a neighbor close or just somebody going to work that lives in the neighborhood. The police aren`t telling me.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/07/ng.01.html

pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 09:14 AM
The "suspicious person" shown in a police sketch released last week is only wanted for questioning and may not even be related to this case, police said. He is not considered a person of interest.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Douglas-Stewart-person-of-interest

spamelope
05-18-2010, 09:20 AM
I dont know if I agree completely with your take on this, although I respect your view point, and here is why: I can envision a desperate parent who may believe that his daughter needs to be vindicated-a father who believes that his grandchildren were hurt in some way by their father and who believes his daughter's unremitting fear that she will be killed by this man. He may have impulsively done this because this was all the proof he needed....I am not ready to believe he intentionally victimized his grandchildren by releasing the notes, and I doubt he could have even done so without the permission of LE....JMO.

Believe, first off, thank you for all you do on the missing threads. It is appreciated! IMO, the public was already clamoring for the head of Doug Stewart, and the police had actively named him a POI. Public opinion was, and still is, totally against DS. I don't think VS needed to be vindicated against anything. Revealing this would not amp up any search or public support. They already had it.
Adults cannot afford to be impulsive with such incredibly sensitive,private matters that pertain to children. While LE couldn't stop LM from publishing those notes, I am certain that they advised him that it was not a good idea.

believe09
05-18-2010, 09:25 AM
Believe, first off, thank you for all you do on the missing threads. It is appreciated! IMO, the public was already clamoring for the head of Doug Stewart, and the police had actively named him a POI. Public opinion was, and still is, totally against DS. I don't think VS needed to be vindicated against anything. Revealing this would not amp up any search or public support. They already had it.
Adults cannot afford to be impulsive with such incredibly sensitive,private matters that pertain to children. While LE couldn't stop LM from publishing those notes, I am certain that they advised him that it was not a good idea.

Spam, I appreciate you for being so balanced and well reasoned when posting on cases that are high profile and emotional!

I agree completely with what I bolded. I will say that some of the chatter regarding VS's abuse of DS and the he said/she said aspects of the case may have gotten the better of Dad. But I agree that adults cannot afford to give into to knee jerk reactions.

AmandaReckonwith
05-18-2010, 09:40 AM
Puf, the thumbnail you posted... what video did that come from?
Was it a Nancy Grace show, and is there a link?

(I never watch NG sorry)

spamelope
05-18-2010, 09:55 AM
Spam, I appreciate you for being so balanced and well reasoned when posting on cases that are high profile and emotional!

I agree completely with what I bolded. I will say that some of the chatter regarding VS's abuse of DS and the he said/she said aspects of the case may have gotten the better of Dad. But I agree that adults cannot afford to give into to knee jerk reactions.

Thanks, believe, but I'm not sure I deserve your praise lol.:blushing: I am not balanced and well reasoned, and as many here can and will gladly tell you, I am often wrong. But thank you.
My heart breaks for those children, and I hope there is a GAL looking out for them. I think it's horrifying too, that they have seen the news on this case. That should have never, ever happened. These children have been pawns for far too long-on all sides. I hope they're in counseling. FWIW, there have been allegations against LM also. But no one has released the details of those to try and vindicate DS. At least not yet.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 09:56 AM
He was in the military. That's what they're all trained to do.

If he was going to use his skills as a sniper, why bother to go to all the trouble and expense of setting up an alibi, traveling to Michigan, abducting her in broad daylight with so many potential witnesses and leave such incriminating evidence behind?

I'm not referring to his shooting skills. I'm thinking more of his ability to deal with killing, and his connections with others with the same ability.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 10:01 AM
Friendly reminder. It is against TOS to continue discussion on posts removed by the moderators or users. Please don't create additional work for us mod's by continuing discussion on info that has been removed. I just removed a few more.....

TIA!

spamelope
05-18-2010, 10:01 AM
The "suspicious person" shown in a police sketch released last week is only wanted for questioning and may not even be related to this case, police said. He is not considered a person of interest.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Douglas-Stewart-person-of-interest

I think it's pretty significant to want to be questioned in a murder case. I would want to interview any and every weirdo in the area to be able to rule them out as an accomplice. I am firmly convinced that this took at least two people to pull off. There was simply too much driving that had to be done in a short period of time. DS may be good, but he still can't be in two places at once. I would really want to know who the other person is.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 10:13 AM
Transcription of Venus' handwritten notes found by her father Larry McComb (as well as I can... it's so blurry in the video). I've attached this as a file, so if you don't want to read this, you can move on by. Names and places are subbed with asterisks.

Forgive me if this has already been answered. Did Venus ever report the alleged sexual abuse of her children? Did she report it to LE, did she ever take her children to a pediatrician for an exam? Into counseling with a professional who the children disclosed to? I ask because the way this is written, is very similiar to other claims I have read online by mothers claiming sexual molestation and those claims have been proven by LE as being unfounded - suspect cleared. I'm just not buying it based on how it's written.

JMO

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 10:15 AM
The "suspicious person" shown in a police sketch released last week is only wanted for questioning and may not even be related to this case, police said. He is not considered a person of interest.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Douglas-Stewart-person-of-interest

Dear Wetman,

Sorry to inconvenience your fully clothed evening swimming and cigarette bumming time, we hope you know where you are because you had to ask when you came out of the woods at Adams Lake a few weeks back, but we can't seem to find you. We know that you are most likely just a local boy with nothing to do with the case, but we'd like to chat with you. We only want to question you regarding a possible abduction/murder case we have open, and you are not a suspect or person of interest...but FYI because we don't believe you have any involvement, we went ahead and did exhaustive searches at Adams Lake on 3 seperate occasions including once with side-scanning sonar and we plan to go back again when the water levels come down.

Again, all of that searching we did, is NOT because we have any reason to suspect you, or your behavior as remotely suspicious. We just want to catch up.

Thanks in advance for your consideration. We appreciate your creepy patronage of our private properties here in Michigan.

Yours Truly,

MSP

spamelope
05-18-2010, 10:20 AM
Dear Wetman,

Sorry to inconvenience your fully clothed evening swimming and cigarette bumming time, we hope you know where you are because you had to ask when you came out of the woods at Adams Lake a few weeks back, but we can't seem to find you. We know that you are most likely just a local boy with nothing to do with the case, but we'd like to chat with you. We only want to question you regarding a possible abduction/murder case we have open, and you are not a suspect or person of interest...but FYI because we don't believe you have any involvement, we went ahead and did exhaustive searches at Adams Lake on 3 seperate occasions including once with side-scanning sonar and we plan to go back again when the water levels come down.

Again, all of that searching we did, is NOT because we have any reason to suspect you, or your behavior as remotely suspicious. We just want to catch up.

Thanks in advance for your consideration. We appreciate your creepy patronage of our private properties here in Michigan.

Yours Truly,

MSP

OMG LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My nose burns from coffee spraying through it.

Amster
05-18-2010, 10:24 AM
Forgive me if this has already been answered. Did Venus ever report the alleged sexual abuse of her children? Did she report it to LE, did she ever take her children to a pediatrician for an exam? Into counseling with a professional who the children disclosed to? I ask because the way this is written, is very similiar to other claims I have read online by mothers claiming sexual molestation and those claims have been proven by LE as being unfounded - suspect cleared. I'm just not buying it based on how it's written.

JMO

IIRC, her claims were investigated and dropped for lack of evidence.

Kimberlyd125
05-18-2010, 10:27 AM
Forgive me if this has already been answered. Did Venus ever report the alleged sexual abuse of her children? Did she report it to LE, did she ever take her children to a pediatrician for an exam? Into counseling with a professional who the children disclosed to? I ask because the way this is written, is very similiar to other claims I have read online by mothers claiming sexual molestation and those claims have been proven by LE as being unfounded - suspect cleared. I'm just not buying it based on how it's written.

JMO

From what I understand, she found out about it later, after the move to VA.
She said the child told her it happened at the old house in MI.
I think she did report it, but it had been a while and there was not enough evidence for charges.
From the letter that was written, it seems she is claiming DS requested that his child touch him, not that he did anything that would have caused something to show up at an exam.

This is all from my mind :eek: as I remember it.
Anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong. It happens a lot. lol

Salem
05-18-2010, 10:29 AM
The lastest - which is just a recap of everything we already know: http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20100518/News01/5180362/-1/googleNews

Salem

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 10:30 AM
Forgive me if this has already been answered. Did Venus ever report the alleged sexual abuse of her children? Did she report it to LE, did she ever take her children to a pediatrician for an exam? Into counseling with a professional who the children disclosed to? I ask because the way this is written, is very similiar to other claims I have read online by mothers claiming sexual molestation and those claims have been proven by LE as being unfounded - suspect cleared. I'm just not buying it based on how it's written.

JMO

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2010/04/missing_st_joseph_county_woman_1.html

Before moving to Virginia in 2009, court documents show that Venus Stewart filed a second petition for a personal-protection order against her husband in March 2009, alleging that he threatened her and made a false criminal accusation against her father.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus

The Schoolcraft Police Department investigated the claims made in the notes. Allegedly, Douglas had one of his daughters touch him inappropriately. A younger sibling was home at the time of the alleged incident, but in a different room.

The Kalamazoo County prosecutor's office told 24 Hour News 8 no charges were filed against Douglas because there was "insufficient evidence."


http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/05/venus_rose_stewart_mom_missing.php

After Venus disappeared, her dad found her notes detailing her daughter's charges of molestation against Douglas Stewart. The notes say that, back in February, one of the daughters claimed that Douglas had her touch him while a younger child was in another room.

Virginia police didn't charge him over the incident, saying there was insufficient evidence.

It looks like she may have had 2 different jurisdictions try to get DS on this and they both told her the same thing...unless the last link is a typo.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 10:30 AM
IIRC, her claims were investigated and dropped for lack of evidence.

Thanks. That is what I thought...... Unfortunately, and I mean no disrespect to Venus as she is the victim here, but so often allegations of sexual abuse are used as a weapon in bitter custody battles. It makes me wonder if perhaps that was part of what made Doug snap. Granted, it is not an excuse or reason to excuse is behavior as I have seen other fathers falsely accused and able to maintain their composure and fight the allegations - and then end up with full custody-. And sometimes the mothers continue on and on with the false allegations and end up having their parental rights revoked depending on how long the nonsense goes on. In those cases it is usually several years.... but that is getting OT so I will end here.

I have some articles saved regarding such. If anyone wishes copies please send me a pm and I will send you the link. This thread is not the place for them.

Salem
05-18-2010, 10:33 AM
Would some one please help me find a picture of DS?

Also, has the sketch been compared to any known ROS's in the area?

Could this case be somewhat similar to Chealsea King's case?

TIA,

Salem

Kimberlyd125
05-18-2010, 10:36 AM
I know there are false claims of child abuse in a lot in divorces. But, a lot of the time, a child is assaulted and since there is not enough evidence, the charges are dropped. It's a child's word against an adults. And we know how that turns out.

We will never know in this case if those claims were true or not.

mommame
05-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Thanks. That is what I thought...... Unfortunately, and I mean no disrespect to Venus as she is the victim here, but so often allegations of sexual abuse are used as a weapon in bitter custody battles. It makes me wonder if perhaps that was part of what made Doug snap. Granted, it is not an excuse or reason to excuse is behavior as I have seen other fathers falsely accused and able to maintain their composure and fight the allegations - and then end up with full custody-. And sometimes the mothers continue on and on with the false allegations and end up having their parental rights revoked depending on how long the nonsense goes on. In those cases it is usually several years.... but that is getting OT so I will end here.

I have some articles saved regarding such. If anyone wishes copies please send me a pm and I will send you the link. This thread is not the place for them.


Certainly don't mean to be snarky here BUT sometimes the allegations ARE true and just can not be proven. I am going to give HER the benefit of the doubt here she IS the one missing...............:truce:

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 10:55 AM
Certainly don't mean to be snarky here BUT sometimes the allegations ARE true and just can not be proven. I am going to give HER the benefit of the doubt here she IS the one missing...............:truce:

The fact that she is missing lends no credibility to her sexual abuse allegations, sorry. Whether or not they are true or false does not change, regardless of where she is, or what has happened to her. I think Cubby is saying, it would be a shame "IF" she had made a false accusation against DS and it was that allegation that was enough to send him over the edge and actually cause him to harm her.

Meagain
05-18-2010, 11:02 AM
So he filed divorce against HER 3 times? Do I have this right? Hmmm.....

Cubby
05-18-2010, 11:06 AM
I know there are false claims of child abuse in a lot in divorces. But, a lot of the time, a child is assaulted and since there is not enough evidence, the charges are dropped. It's a child's word against an adults. And we know how that turns out.

We will never know in this case if those claims were true or not.


While we won't, I'm not going to make the assumption the allegations were true and dropped for lack of evidence. If too much time goes by before a parent reports that raises my hinky meter. What parent wouldn't immediately go to the police and wait months?

Also, physical evidence is not always necessary if the child fully discloses to a child psychologist.... I realize that is not fool proof, but a child able to describe an event to a parent and is comfortable enough to do so, should also be able to do so to a therapist. I'm also always leary when a child only discloses to one parent. There would be other behavior witnessed at preschool, school, by friends parents etc.... because a child would not know age appropriate sexual boundaries and likely have too much knowledge based on their age.

I don't want this to get OT into a debate about sexual allegations in a custody dispute. I am only sharing why I believe what I do based on being a single parent for almost 8.5 years myself and participating in SP forums where both genders participated.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 11:07 AM
Would some one please help me find a picture of DS?


http://www.truecrimereport.com/assets_c/2010/05/Douglas-Stewart-thumb-160x212.jpg

believe09
05-18-2010, 11:08 AM
The multiple divorce filings...I have seen this in the past in non headline cases where a spouse is threatening the other-example: if you do not do xyz, I will divorce you and take the children away from you. (Step one, pay the filing fee to file.) See, I filed, I am telling you I am going to do it this time......

I have also seen multiple divorce filings in mutually addicted relationships as someone already mentioned. One spouse or both file repeatedly to try and break the bond, but the never make it to the end.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 11:10 AM
The fact that she is missing lends no credibility to her sexual abuse allegations, sorry. Whether or not they are true or false does not change, regardless of where she is, or what has happened to her. I think Cubby is saying, it would be a shame "IF" she had made a false accusation against DS and it was that allegation that was enough to send him over the edge and actually cause him to harm her.

Exactly what I meant. thanks for expressing that better than I did.

BeanE
05-18-2010, 11:10 AM
Dear Wetman,

Sorry to inconvenience your fully clothed evening swimming and cigarette bumming time, we hope you know where you are because you had to ask when you came out of the woods at Adams Lake a few weeks back, but we can't seem to find you. We know that you are most likely just a local boy with nothing to do with the case, but we'd like to chat with you. We only want to question you regarding a possible abduction/murder case we have open, and you are not a suspect or person of interest...but FYI because we don't believe you have any involvement, we went ahead and did exhaustive searches at Adams Lake on 3 seperate occasions including once with side-scanning sonar and we plan to go back again when the water levels come down.

Again, all of that searching we did, is NOT because we have any reason to suspect you, or your behavior as remotely suspicious. We just want to catch up.

Thanks in advance for your consideration. We appreciate your creepy patronage of our private properties here in Michigan.

Yours Truly,

MSP

:floorlaugh:

Post of the day

spamelope
05-18-2010, 11:13 AM
When did they last live in Schoolcraft? I think it's a big difference if it was Jan. '09 as opposed to Dec. '09. Children that age have notoriously poor memories for things that happened long ago.

believe09
05-18-2010, 11:18 AM
I think allegations of child sexual abuse are always troublesome because it reveals something very nasty about at least one or both of the adults.

As for this being the straw that might have broken DS' back? Although there was a temporary RO and custody determination in VS' favor, the law would have been on his side in terms of the allegations if one or more jurisdictions had found insufficient proof. I would think a GAL would have been appointed for the children (and still maybe) to try and sort out what was going on between VS and DS...and of course the children. So I dont know that it might cause him to do something so incredibly stupid as to grab his wife...

For DS to be the guilty party here for me, he would have to fall in line with the kind of spouse I am familiar with who is pathologically controlling. Her attempt to run away and start a new life without him would be sufficient to make him throw common sense to the wind and destroy her in some shape or form....in this case to take her and possibly harm her.

I am not saying he did it-but there is a lot that points to him for whatever reason.

What makes little to no sense is VS kidnapping herself. If she was going to walk away from her children, there were many other ways to do it. Unless of course you believe that she was the pathologically controlling spouse. She does not ring that way for me....there is a tremendous amount of organization and planning...hauling off and bloodying his nose makes me think that she does not have the same level of control. Again, JMO.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 11:18 AM
:floorlaugh:

Post of the day

Could be post of the year! But I'm not going to argue with a mod. LOL

I'm still lmao.

believe09
05-18-2010, 11:22 AM
Spam, I will not quote your post so you can delete it...but to your issues yes it seems like a dig unless there was a congenital issue with DS....which would be pretty easy to determine. God Help me, but I had a friend whose husband had an issue....it did not hinder them from having children you understand. But in the grand scheme of things, he probably had an incredible amount of difficulty in HS if he had to shower with the other fellows if you catch my drift.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 11:24 AM
I'm going to town for paint. I know many of the officials in the case. If I run into the judge or the prosecuting attorney, what would everyone like me to ask them?

cluciano63
05-18-2010, 11:27 AM
I cannot see a child a describing a penis in that way, by any stretch of imagination...that really stands out to me...not even good coaching, if coached. Or it is so off the wall, it must be true...one or the other...

spamelope
05-18-2010, 11:28 AM
I'm going to town for paint. I know many of the officials in the case. If I run into the judge or the prosecuting attorney, what would everyone like me to ask them?

LOL Blackdog! Ask them who is on the WalMart tape!!!!!!! And what exactly is Doug's alibi? I have more questions, but I don't want to keep you all day long lol.

believe09
05-18-2010, 11:30 AM
I'm going to town for paint. I know many of the officials in the case. If I run into the judge or the prosecuting attorney, what would everyone like me to ask them?

I would like to know what time they spoke to DS in the "late evening" lol...

Cubby
05-18-2010, 11:33 AM
Hmmmmm. I don't think a child would make reference to size. Why would they? It's not as if they have anything for comparison purposes.

Also, by the time my son was 3 and in preschool I had already talked to him about good touch bad touch. Considering a lot of parents do not choose to send their kids to 3 yr old preschool ( at least in my immediate area) I would venture to guess those parents who do go ahead and choose to send their children to both 3 & 4 yr old preschool would be of the mind to have age appropriate discussions with their kids about good touch bad touch.

Ugh what a mess. Bottom line is Venus is missing and likely dead. Sadly, this case reminds me of the Peterson Stebic cases.. I can only hope Venus is found and this case doesn't go cold like Stacy's or Lisa's.

JMO

BeanE
05-18-2010, 11:40 AM
While we won't, I'm not going to make the assumption the allegations were true and dropped for lack of evidence. If too much time goes by before a parent reports that raises my hinky meter. What parent wouldn't immediately go to the police and wait months?



Venus' daughter told her about the molestation in February. Venus immediately reported it, picked up the kids and left Doug, and got a protection order against him.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus

Also reference pufnstuf's timeline and case notes approximately the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread.

Also please note in puffy's timeline and case notes that Venus' abuse of Doug and his protection orders against her were years ago, and that what is recent and current, is that a judge found that Doug was threatening towards Venus, as evidence by the granting of a protection order against him in February, which was still in effect at the time of Venus abduction.

This is the documented information I'm currently going by. If you have other information, I'd appreciate the source references. I'm particularly interested in any indications, should they exist, that Venus was violent against Doug in the past year, as well as any indications that Venus did not take action as soon as her daughter told her about the allegations of molestation.

Thanks Cubby.

BeanE

mommame
05-18-2010, 11:41 AM
The fact that she is missing lends no credibility to her sexual abuse allegations, sorry. Whether or not they are true or false does not change, regardless of where she is, or what has happened to her. I think Cubby is saying, it would be a shame "IF" she had made a false accusation against DS and it was that allegation that was enough to send him over the edge and actually cause him to harm her.


While I do agree it doesn't lend any credibility, it is a fact.she is not here to defend herself or her accusations......thats what I meant and still think.......

cluciano63
05-18-2010, 11:49 AM
I wish new info would come out on the abduction case...evidence coming back, etc...I am not wanting to debate the alleged abuse charges at this point, personally...I know they are relevant to a point but not in the search phase, IMO. I guess it could play to motive, but it sounds as if this couple had nothing but motive and anger toward one another...

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 11:50 AM
Doesn't anybody else find it a little odd that DS has not tried to defend himself even once by casting a single aspersion against or blaming her, dragging her name through the mud, letting any skeletons out of her closet? It would have been SUPER easy for him to do. We only know what we know about her because it's a matter of public record, not because he or any of his family are offering it up to the media. Seems odd to me.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 11:51 AM
What makes little to no sense is VS kidnapping herself. If she was going to walk away from her children, there were many other ways to do it. Unless of course you believe that she was the pathologically controlling spouse. She does not ring that way for me....there is a tremendous amount of organization and planning...hauling off and bloodying his nose makes me think that she does not have the same level of control. Again, JMO.
BB and SBM
Word. Tiffany Tehan.
Just sayin' it has happened before. Recently even.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 11:53 AM
Venus' daughter told her about the molestation in February. Venus immediately reported it, picked up the kids and left Doug, and got a protection order against him.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus

Also reference pufnstuf's timeline and case notes approximately the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread.

Also please note in puffy's timeline and case notes that Venus' abuse of Doug and his protection orders against her were years ago, and that what is recent and current, is that a judge found that Doug was threatening towards Venus, as evidence by the granting of a protection order against him in February, which was still in effect at the time of Venus abduction.

This is the documented information I'm currently going by. If you have other information, I'd appreciate the source references. I'm particularly interested in any indications, should they exist, that Venus was violent against Doug in the past year, as well as any indications that Venus did not take action as soon as her daughter told her about the allegations of molestation.

Thanks Cubby.

BeanE


For clarification purposes. Please note, I did not specify 'Venus' - when I said "a parent" I was speaking in generalities. I've also referenced more than once I have not read every single post in all of the threads regarding Venus. hence, some of my posts are either my opinion or generally speaking as indicated.

HTH

Cubby
05-18-2010, 12:14 PM
Thanks. That is what I thought...... Unfortunately, and I mean no disrespect to Venus as she is the victim here, but so often allegations of sexual abuse are used as a weapon in bitter custody battles. It makes me wonder if perhaps that was part of what made Doug snap. Granted, it is not an excuse or reason to excuse is behavior as I have seen other fathers falsely accused and able to maintain their composure and fight the allegations - and then end up with full custody-. And sometimes the mothers continue on and on with the false allegations and end up having their parental rights revoked depending on how long the nonsense goes on. In those cases it is usually several years.... but that is getting OT so I will end here.

I have some articles saved regarding such. If anyone wishes copies please send me a pm and I will send you the link. This thread is not the place for them.

BBM. Sorry to quote myself but I felt I should further clarify. The two articles I have are non case related. They are two articles about two mothers who have lost their parental rights based on continued false allegations of child molestation against their ex's.

I mention them for reference purpose ONLY and in no way intend for them to be relative to indicate the accuracy or inaccuracy of any allegations made by Venus against her husband.

If anyone is interested in reading them, I would be happy to share them via PM but because they have NO relation to this case I will not link them in the thread.

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 12:18 PM
BBM. Sorry to quote myself but I felt I should further clarify. The two articles I have are non case related. They are two articles about two mothers who have lost their parental rights based on continued false allegations of child molestation against their ex's.

I mention them for reference purpose ONLY and in no way intend for them to be relative to indicate the accuracy or inaccuracy of any allegations made by Venus against her husband.

If anyone is interested in reading them, I would be happy to share them via PM but because they have NO relation to this case I will not link them in the thread.

I'm always up for a good read...if you wouldn't mind messaging them along to me. And thanks for all you do Cubby.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 12:19 PM
While I do agree it doesn't lend any credibility, it is a fact.she is not here to defend herself or her accusations......thats what I meant and still think.......

With all due respect, and I mean that. I think people may be getting hyper sensitive with respect to what is ones opinion versus interpreting what someone is posting as fact.

I never meant to indicate Venus's allegations against her husband were false as FACT. Hence my speaking in general based on my experience as an SP.

I'm not here to choose which parent was right and which was wrong, it was simply a theory based on what I know of MANY fathers who have been falsely accused of molesting their children. Some who have won the custody fight and proving the allegations were false, and others who were not so lucky.

*IF* the allegations were false, and that is what sent Doug over the edge it is very unfortunate. That is all I was saying.

HTH

Natal
05-18-2010, 12:21 PM
For DS to be the guilty party here for me, he would have to fall in line with the kind of spouse I am familiar with who is pathologically controlling. Her attempt to run away and start a new life without him would be sufficient to make him throw common sense to the wind and destroy her in some shape or form....in this case to take her and possibly harm her.



She must have left before. They both requested and were granted PPOs in July-August 2008, which means that they couldn't have been living together at that time. Likewise the 2009 PPO application implies they were apart at that time.

So her leaving in February wasn't something new. If there was a trigger it must have had something to do with more recent events, since they would have been through all this separation stuff at least twice before.

Natal
05-18-2010, 12:26 PM
I cannot see a child a describing a penis in that way, by any stretch of imagination...that really stands out to me...not even good coaching, if coached. Or it is so off the wall, it must be true...one or the other...

It wasn't the child describing it, it was Venus's account. And one would assume that she had seen her husbands penis before, so any description of it in itself wouldn't carry weight, no matter how accurate or off the wall.

If the child described it to member of LE or a therapist, then there would be more grounds for the allegation, but if it something that only Venus said, it would carry no weight (and therefor no charges).

mommame
05-18-2010, 12:29 PM
With all due respect, and I mean that. I think people may be getting hyper sensitive with respect to what is ones opinion versus interpreting what someone is posting as fact.

I never meant to indicate Venus's allegations against her husband were false as FACT. Hence my speaking in general based on my experience as an SP.

I'm not here to choose which parent was right and which was wrong, it was simply a theory based on what I know of MANY fathers who have been falsely accused of molesting their children. Some who have won the custody fight and proving the allegations were false, and others who were not so lucky.

*IF* the allegations were false, and that is what sent Doug over the edge it is very unfortunate. That is all I was saying.

HTH

I understand and agree totally.....I misunderstood your first post. I also agree that it does happen unfortunately where father's get wrongly accused of such things. I was simply saying that in this case ( sorry your post just happened to be where I had a chance (ok bad time to take that chance) to state my opinions on these accusations as I had seen this brought up in the past)

Calliope
05-18-2010, 12:33 PM
Thank you puf, for that transcription. I think. Someday that little girl will google this case, and find this. I hope she has a good therapist. It was sick to put this out for public consumption. The media should have taken the high road and declined to publish this.

Absolutely.

Calliope
05-18-2010, 12:35 PM
LARRY MCCOMB: I`m as sure that he took her as I am of my name. That`s all there is to it, Nancy. I`m positive. This other fellow they run the sketch around, lady at the Dollar Store says he`s a local boy. I think these conversations have gotten confused or exaggerated. I don`t know. Doug Stewart is the man that took my daughter.

Good morning, believe. Here you go.

GRACE: And another thing, Mr. McComb, Larry, this guy that was at the lake does not seem to bear a resemblance to whoever was parked across from your house the morning she was taken.

THERESE MCCOMB: No.

LARRY MCCOMB: That`s right, Nancy. That`s because he wasn`t the man.

GRACE: Larry, have you talked to the neighbor that saw the pick-up in the field?

LARRY MCCOMB: No, I haven`t. I don`t know if it was a neighbor close or just somebody going to work that lives in the neighborhood. The police aren`t telling me.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1005/07/ng.01.html
Why in the world would you NOT try to find the neighbor who saw this man???

Cubby
05-18-2010, 12:42 PM
I understand and agree totally.....I misunderstood your first post. I also agree that it does happen unfortunately where father's get wrongly accused of such things. I was simply saying that in this case ( sorry your post just happened to be where I had a chance (ok bad time to take that chance) to state my opinions on these accusations as I had seen this brought up in the past)


Thank you and I understand. I'm not always great at being very clear with what I write. I know what I mean, but I'm not sure I always communicate it in writing as I wish. I welcome any questions for clarification purposes.

:blowkiss:

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 12:46 PM
She must have left before. They both requested and were granted PPOs in July-August 2008, which means that they couldn't have been living together at that time. Likewise the 2009 PPO application implies they were apart at that time.

So her leaving in February wasn't something new. If there was a trigger it must have had something to do with more recent events, since they would have been through all this separation stuff at least twice before.

I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. It would seem that at some point in 2008 after the DV arrest...the children were living with DS and she was living with her parents in Colon, because in DS's PPO from 2008 it said something to the effect of that she threatened to kill him for taking her children away from her. That leads me to think he had custody of them on his own for some period of time and she had left the household. I'm sure this info could be verified rather easily by LE.

Whatever criminal allegation was made against the father of VS, was in 2009. This leads me to think that they must have been seperated again as a result of said allegation...(more PPO's, more divorce filings) and depending on what the criminal allegation against LM was...possibly the children with DS having custody again and her living at home with her parents. This would be easy to prove by learning where the PPO and divorce proceedings were filed.

The million dollar question is...after your husband accuses your own father of doing something criminal...how do you end up back with him and relocating halfway accross the country with someone you claim to know is abusive, controlling, and dangerous to your own well-being? Especially, when you were already clearly separated and in the safety and care of your own parent's home?

Cubby
05-18-2010, 12:47 PM
Why in the world would you NOT try to find the neighbor who saw this man???


or make a public plea for anyone in the neighborhood who may have seen him to contact LE? Unless he did and I missed that?

believe09
05-18-2010, 12:48 PM
:grouphug:

I appreciate everyone who is putting such time, effort and thought into this situation. It is a truly compelling case...

Calliope
05-18-2010, 01:00 PM
Hmmmmm. I don't think a child would make reference to size. Why would they? It's not as if they have anything for comparison purposes.

Also, by the time my son was 3 and in preschool I had already talked to him about good touch bad touch. Considering a lot of parents do not choose to send their kids to 3 yr old preschool ( at least in my immediate area) I would venture to guess those parents who do go ahead and choose to send their children to both 3 & 4 yr old preschool would be of the mind to have age appropriate discussions with their kids about good touch bad touch.

Ugh what a mess. Bottom line is Venus is missing and likely dead. Sadly, this case reminds me of the Peterson Stebic cases.. I can only hope Venus is found and this case doesn't go cold like Stacy's or Lisa's.

JMO
BBM

I agree.

I'm trying to be delicate here....

For a child that little, I don't see them describing it as ___ and small, no matter how poorly endowed he is.

God, I hope that passes muster...

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 01:00 PM
or make a public plea for anyone in the neighborhood who may have seen him to contact LE? Unless he did and I missed that?

If my daughter was missing, you better believe I'd be knocking on every door in the area and talking to everyone I could to find out what they saw or heard or knew...good point.

mommame
05-18-2010, 01:03 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with your statements. It would seem that at some point in 2008 after the DV arrest...the children were living with DS and she was living with her parents in Colon, because in DS's PPO from 2008 it said something to the effect of that she threatened to kill him for taking her children away from her. That leads me to think he had custody of them on his own for some period of time and she had left the household. I'm sure this info could be verified rather easily by LE.

Whatever criminal allegation was made against the father of VS, was in 2009. This leads me to think that they must have been seperated again as a result of said allegation...(more PPO's, more divorce filings) and depending on what the criminal allegation against LM was...possibly the children with DS having custody again and her living at home with her parents. This would be easy to prove by learning where the PPO and divorce proceedings were filed.

The million dollar question is...after your husband accuses your own father of doing something criminal...how do you end up back with him and relocating halfway accross the country with someone you claim to know is abusive, controlling, and dangerous to your own well-being? Especially, when you were already clearly separated and in the safety and care of your own parent's home?


JMO..but in answer to the Million Dollar ??......I have read of this happening time and again.....The abuser is always going to try, it won't happen again....He loves her, ect..ect

Calliope
05-18-2010, 01:05 PM
Venus' daughter told her about the molestation in February. Venus immediately reported it, picked up the kids and left Doug, and got a protection order against him.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/Dad-finds-handwritten-letter-from-Venus

Also reference pufnstuf's timeline and case notes approximately the 2nd or 3rd post in this thread.

Also please note in puffy's timeline and case notes that Venus' abuse of Doug and his protection orders against her were years ago, and that what is recent and current, is that a judge found that Doug was threatening towards Venus, as evidence by the granting of a protection order against him in February, which was still in effect at the time of Venus abduction.

This is the documented information I'm currently going by. If you have other information, I'd appreciate the source references. I'm particularly interested in any indications, should they exist, that Venus was violent against Doug in the past year, as well as any indications that Venus did not take action as soon as her daughter told her about the allegations of molestation.

Thanks Cubby.

BeanE

BBM

Where were Venus and Doug when this was filed and granted? Was this filed after she got back to MI? Was he still in VA at the time? If so, I wouldn't place too much on this as proof he was violent toward her. I could go to a judge here and file for a PPO against my ex living half-way across the country. If he's not present to give his side, or isn't represented by someone local who can, the judge can only go by what I've told him... and I could likely have one granted.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 01:06 PM
What is the objective of this site?

Cubby
05-18-2010, 01:09 PM
BBM

I agree.

I'm trying to be delicate here....

For a child that little, I don't see them describing it as ___ and small, no matter how poorly endowed he is.

God, I hope that passes muster...


We are all adults here. I think your post was fine.

I would like to add, generally speaking. Think about the times children discuss questions or comments about body parts and how they describe them. They do so innocently, most often, and sometimes so bold that some of their questions or comments make adults laugh hysterically. I can think of a few questions my son asked my family.... and they shared the story about how they busted out laughing and couldn't help themself.... mostly because as adults we would know to ask that privately. The reason for the initial laughter went completely over my sons head.

That alone makes it very difficult for me to comprehend how some of these comments are spoken directly from a 3 yr old.

JMO

Cubby
05-18-2010, 01:11 PM
What is the objective of this site?

In relation to what?

This is the description of this forum, the missing/located discussion forum:


This is the place for case discussion and opinion regarding all cases on the Missing/Located Forums.


Does that help?

Calliope
05-18-2010, 01:11 PM
What is the objective of this site?

Cookies. As a new poster, you're required to bake us all cookies. I prefer chocolate chip, soft, not crunchy. TIA.

It's spam's turn to bring the drinks tho'.

RubyRed
05-18-2010, 01:13 PM
dear wetman,

sorry to inconvenience your fully clothed evening swimming and cigarette bumming time, we hope you know where you are because you had to ask when you came out of the woods at adams lake a few weeks back, but we can't seem to find you. We know that you are most likely just a local boy with nothing to do with the case, but we'd like to chat with you. We only want to question you regarding a possible abduction/murder case we have open, and you are not a suspect or person of interest...but fyi because we don't believe you have any involvement, we went ahead and did exhaustive searches at adams lake on 3 seperate occasions including once with side-scanning sonar and we plan to go back again when the water levels come down.

Again, all of that searching we did, is not because we have any reason to suspect you, or your behavior as remotely suspicious. We just want to catch up.

Thanks in advance for your consideration. We appreciate your creepy patronage of our private properties here in michigan.

Yours truly,

msp

lmao, lol lol

spamelope
05-18-2010, 01:13 PM
What is the objective of this site?
LOL Um, anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

We're here to solve crimes and be noticed by the American Idol judges. lol

Cubby
05-18-2010, 01:15 PM
BBM

Where were Venus and Doug when this was filed and granted? Was this filed after she got back to MI? Was he still in VA at the time? If so, I wouldn't place too much on this as proof he was violent toward her. I could go to a judge here and file for a PPO against my ex living half-way across the country. If he's not present to give his side, or isn't represented by someone local who can, the judge can only go by what I've told him... and I could likely have one granted.

True. I hope to have answers to these questions as well.

Calliope
05-18-2010, 01:16 PM
We are all adults here. I think your post was fine.

I would like to add, generally speaking. Think about the times children discuss questions or comments about body parts and how they describe them. They do so innocently, most often, and sometimes so bold that some of their questions or comments make adults laugh hysterically. I can think of a few questions my son asked my family.... and they shared the story about how they busted out laughing and couldn't help themself.... mostly because as adults we would know to ask that privately. The reason for the initial laughter went completely over my sons head.

That alone makes it very difficult for me to comprehend how some of these comments are spoken directly from a 3 yr old.

JMO

ITA

And you're right. Kids that age just blurt it out no matter who's around. Makes for some interesting times, for sure lol.

It took me a long time before I realized what my grandson meant by 'tentacles' :eek:

spamelope
05-18-2010, 01:17 PM
Cookies. As a new poster, you're required to bake us all cookies. I prefer chocolate chip, soft, not crunchy. TIA.

It's spam's turn to bring the drinks tho'.

LOL You picked me cuz I know you think by my behavior that I would bring the hard stuff. In reality, I would bring coffee and Dr. Pepper lol.
Thanks for the plug for cookies. I could go for a cookie right about now!

spamelope
05-18-2010, 01:20 PM
Personally, since DS filed for divorce 3 times, I don't think he was doing the begging if there was any to be done. JMOO

Calliope
05-18-2010, 01:22 PM
LOL You picked me cuz I know you think by my behavior that I would bring the hard stuff. In reality, I would bring coffee and Dr. Pepper lol.
Thanks for the plug for cookies. I could go for a cookie right about now!

Well, it was worth a shot.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 01:26 PM
ITA

And you're right. Kids that age just blurt it out no matter who's around. Makes for some interesting times, for sure lol.

It took me a long time before I realized what my grandson meant by 'tentacles' :eek:


Yep. Mine thinks tampons are the white mouse, lol. At least that is how he describes them.

When I hear and read these accusations with children using descriptions only an adult would understand I personally have a hard time taking those allegations as fact.

OT- my son is in 1st. I told him if he ever had questions about sex I would prefer he asked me, rather than learning from his friends - because kids his age often have the facts/info mixed up. Imagine my shock when my sons first question was "So mom, just exactly when did you and my dad have sex? Because you are not at all the sexual type and my dad CERTAINLY is not the sexual type". I was not at ALL prepared for that question, but at least I know he is comfortable enough to ask. And I understand this is his sorting out in his mind my relationship with his dad because we were never married.

Those types of things make me question the description some parents claim their very young children use.

end of OT.

JMO

Cubby
05-18-2010, 01:29 PM
Personally, since DS filed for divorce 3 times, I don't think he was doing the begging if there was any to be done. JMOO

It could have been a passive agressive thing.... if I don't get my way, or I can't get you to.... I will do X. Perhaps for some time Venus was the one with more interest in working on the relationship until she had enough and realized any attempts at compromise were futile. Usually when someone who is a control freak - and I assume Doug to be one in this situation - they are even more frantic when they begin to lose the control they have over another. Could it be he 'snapped' as a result of losing that control?

Unfortunately, I think there is a type of man who has his idea's of what his life, marraige and career should be. Very inflexible, and they will go to any and all lengths to maintain that image. From what I have read, Doug strikes me as that type more than the type to not want to give up his money and half of what he earned kind of thing.

JMO

blackdog
05-18-2010, 01:35 PM
LOL Um, anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

We're here to solve crimes and be noticed by the American Idol judges. lol

I'm new. What doe's everyone think is taking so long for an arrest, again.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 01:37 PM
I'm new. What doe's everyone think is taking so long for an arrest, again.


Enough evidence to ensure a conviction. Being there is only once chance LE doesn't want to blow their only chance.

I also think in this situation, LE will keep everything close to the vest until they have made an arrest. They aren't going to lay their cards out first. My neighbor is ISP swat team, and was there when they arrested Drew P. It was an all day event that started very early in the am, but the arrest didn't happen until evening rush hour time and it was kept quiet the entire day. I see the same happening in this case.

JMO

spamelope
05-18-2010, 01:48 PM
It could have been a passive agressive thing.... if I don't get my way, or I can't get you to.... I will do X. Perhaps for some time Venus was the one with more interest in working on the relationship until she had enough and realized any attempts at compromise were futile. Usually when someone who is a control freak - and I assume Doug to be one in this situation - they are even more frantic when they begin to lose the control they have over another. Could it be he 'snapped' as a result of losing that control?

Unfortunately, I think there is a type of man who has his idea's of what his life, marraige and career should be. Very inflexible, and they will go to any and all lengths to maintain that image. From what I have read, Doug strikes me as that type more than the type to not want to give up his money and half of what he earned kind of thing.

JMO

I think that rightly or wrongly, Doug knew that with the DV records, her not having a job or vehicle or home, he would have been awarded custody permanently. For all we know, Doug was fine with her having custody until he relocated back to MI. I really do think that he applied for the transfer when VS moved back to MI, or else his employers are really accommodating to have done this in merely a week after VS went missing. MOO So I don't think his motive was financial.

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 01:54 PM
JMO..but in answer to the Million Dollar ??......I have read of this happening time and again.....The abuser is always going to try, it won't happen again....He loves her, ect..ect

I don't mean to stand up for the "bad guy", but I haven't read anywhere that DS was found to be guilty of any type of abuse at all. So how is this relevant? In fact, the opposite has been reported, that he was accused and not charged after the investigation. Can you please link to the proof (other than hearsay and comments from the McComb family, etc) that he was an "abuser"? Because otherwise, these DV theories are speculation and based on nothing factual, certainly not on any shred of proof that DS was abusive.

Having an active PPO against someone is not proof that said someone has been abusive. I'm against all forms of domestic violence whether it's male on female or the reverse. But I believe it would be unwise to base many opinions of DS on assumptions that have been formed by statements made by biased individuals to the media and unsubtantiated allegations by someone that actually does have a public recorded history of abuse. The truth about what happened is what really needs to be investigated and when opinion is based 100% on hearsay and statements from one side of the fence, you aren't getting at the truth. IMO

Cubby
05-18-2010, 02:05 PM
I think that rightly or wrongly, Doug knew that with the DV records, her not having a job or vehicle or home, he would have been awarded custody permanently. For all we know, Doug was fine with her having custody until he relocated back to MI. I really do think that he applied for the transfer when VS moved back to MI, or else his employers are really accommodating to have done this in merely a week after VS went missing. MOO So I don't think his motive was financial.


BBM. I don't think her not having a job, vehicle or home would have any baring on a custody decision. If so, that would elimate any stay at home mom getting divorced from ever winning custody of her children. I have known men who have paid well over 5 grand a month for child support and spousal support for appx 2 years allowing their former stay at home wife time to become gainfully employed. I'm not sure how spousal support works elsewhere, but here in IL it is usually granted for appx 2 years in general.

I think Doug was not going to allow Venus to take the children away from him full time. And in this case, at all costs.........

JMO

spamelope
05-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Here's an interesting article on WIKI
Conviction for murder in the absence of a body is possible; although historically, cases of this type have been hard to prove, the prosecution must rely on other evidence, usually circumstantial. Recent developments in forensic science make it less likely that such a murder will go unpunished.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_conviction_without_a_body

And this
Prosecutions for murders without bodies were once extremely rare, according to DiBiase, who traces the earliest documented case in the United States to 1819, when brothers Jesse and Stephen Boorn were convicted of murdering their brother-in-law, Richard Colvin, in Manchester, Vt.

More than 300 such cases that have gone to trial in the United States since, more than 90 percent of them resulting in a conviction, DiBiase said.

Although defense attorneys often try to convince jurors that no body means no proof a person is dead, DiBiase has found only one case, around 1886, in which a victim turned up alive after his supposed killer -- tried twice on charges he killed his lover's husband -- had been convicted and executed.

In the past decade, DiBiase said a surge in such murder prosecutions is largely thanks to advances in DNA technology, computer records and cell phone logs, and improvements in
forensics.

Juries have also become more sophisticated with the popularity of crime, law and forensic television shows, according to Donna Pendergast, assistant attorney general for the Michigan Department of Attorney General's office, who has successfully prosecuted several of these cases.

Pendergast says the enormous public appetite for forensics has led to jury pools full of people who "want to see every little
fingerprint."

She has convinced juries that a person was really dead even though no body was ever found, because the victim didn't access bank accounts or credit cards after they disappeared.

"Traditionally, a prosecutor would say: 'No body, we don't have a case,' " Pendergast said. "But now that people are seeing these cases can be won. ... It's not 'the perfect crime' anymore."
http://www.njherald.com/story/news/a0581-BC-US-BodylessMurders-2ndLd-Writethru-04-11-1117

spamelope
05-18-2010, 02:23 PM
722.23 “Best interests of the child” defined.

Sec. 3.

As used in this act, “best interests of the child” means the sum total of the following factors to be considered, evaluated, and determined by the court:

(a) The love, affection, and other emotional ties existing between the parties involved and the child.

(b) The capacity and disposition of the parties involved to give the child love, affection, and guidance and to continue the education and raising of the child in his or her religion or creed, if any.

(c) The capacity and disposition of the parties involved to provide the child with food, clothing, medical care or other remedial care recognized and permitted under the laws of this state in place of medical care, and other material needs.

(d) The length of time the child has lived in a stable, satisfactory environment, and the desirability of maintaining continuity.

(e) The permanence, as a family unit, of the existing or proposed custodial home or homes.

(f) The moral fitness of the parties involved.

(g) The mental and physical health of the parties involved.

(h) The home, school, and community record of the child.

(i) The reasonable preference of the child, if the court considers the child to be of sufficient age to express preference.

(j) The willingness and ability of each of the parties to facilitate and encourage a close and continuing parent-child relationship between the child and the other parent or the child and the parents.

(k) Domestic violence, regardless of whether the violence was directed against or witnessed by the child.

(l) Any other factor considered by the court to be relevant to a particular child custody dispute

I was divorced in MI and didn't get any spousal support. Any more, the courts really don't give it out unless you're married for like 100 years. In the case of a SAHM, I think the courts want the children to continue living in the family home, and the non custodial parent has to help support that. More and more dads are getting custody these days, and it's the mom that has to pay. I don't think VS would have retained custody, especially after reading this. JMOO

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 02:31 PM
I cannot see a child a describing a penis in that way, by any stretch of imagination...that really stands out to me...not even good coaching, if coached. Or it is so off the wall, it must be true...one or the other...

I find it suspicious that she didn't immediately interrogate the child to discover exactly what, why, when, how and where she had seen DS's "thing", especially since it appears she resented him tremendously for the way he was reportedly treating her and clearly needed more reasons to justify leaving him. In other words, I would have thought she would have jumped right on that thinking something to the effect of, "That SOB! Not only is he abusing me, but he's molesting our daughter!", then followed that thought by asking a slew of questions!

Instead, Venus writes she ignored the child who proceeded to pester her, insisting on getting some answers.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 02:52 PM
I find it suspicious that she didn't immediately interrogate the child to discover exactly what, why, when, how and where she had seen DS's "thing", especially since it appears she resented him tremendously for the way he was reportedly treating her and clearly needed more reasons to justify leaving him. In other words, I would have thought she would have jumped right on that thinking something to the effect of, "That SOB! Not only is he abusing me, but he's molesting our daughter!", then followed that thought by asking a slew of questions!

Instead, Venus writes she ignored the child who proceeded to pester her, insisting on getting some answers.


Can you direct me to the link where Venus wrote she ignored the child....?

In general, depending on how a parent discusses/questions a child regarding alleged sexual abuse it could impair prosecution of the case and the childs testimony as the defense would state the parent 'tainted' the childs testimony.

I'd like to think, any parent in a situation where a child would begin to show signs of being sexually abused would immediately seek professional advise via LE/therapy/medical. If for nothing else than to ensure protection of their child. I know for a fact if my son EVER so much as told me someone touched him inappropriately or I had cause to reasonably believe something like that happened I'd be off to either the police station or ER immediately and seek professional assistance.

I can't imagine doing all kinds of documentation without seeking professional assistance to back up my documentation.

I could be jumping the gun here, so I would really like to see the link that I requested above for better understanding.

JMO

ETA: Just a few weeks ago, my son complained for the 3rd or 4th time some of the boys in his class were grabbing his chest and squeezing to make his chest appear like female. (my son is a little chunky so he has the fat there to do so). I was at school bright and early the following morning to discuss this in person with my son and his teacher. And this was kids joking around, but inappropriately so imo. And not something he was able to handle on his own by asking those peers to stop.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 02:58 PM
Can you direct me to the link where Venus wrote she ignored the child....?

In general, depending on how a parent discusses/questions a child regarding alleged sexual abuse it could impair prosecution of the case and the childs testimony as the defense would state the parent 'tainted' the childs testimony.

I'd like to think, any parent in a situation where a child would begin to show signs of being sexually abused would immediately seek professional advise via LE/therapy/medical. If for nothing else than to ensure protection of their child. I know for a fact if my son EVER so much as told me someone touched him inappropriately or I had cause to reasonably believe something like that happened I'd be off to either the police station or ER immediately and seek professional assistance.

I can't imagine doing all kinds of documentation without seeking professional assistance to back up my documentation.

I could be jumping the gun here, so I would really like to see the link that I requested above for better understanding.

JMO

ETA: Just a few weeks ago, my son complained for the 3rd or 4th time some of the boys in his class were grabbing his chest and squeezing to make his chest appear like female. (my son is a little chunky so he has the fat there to do so). I was at school bright and early the following morning to discuss this in person with my son and his teacher. And this was kids joking around, but inappropriately so imo.

There is a post down a ways by Puf which links to Venus's notes. You have to click on the link then download it to your computer. Here is an excerpt from it:

"My eyes got real big and I just sat there and didn't say anything ..... and I didn't want to go there with her. She kept on demanding an answer."

(I left out the offensive part and replaced it with .....)

The average parent would ASK questions. The last thing they'd be thinking about would be damaging a case. They'd need enough information from the child to determine if they needed to contact social services or the police.

believe09
05-18-2010, 03:14 PM
There is a post down a ways by Puf which links to Venus's notes. You have to click on the link then download it to your computer. Here is an excerpt from it:

"My eyes got real big and I just sat there and didn't say anything ..... and I didn't want to go there with her. She kept on demanding an answer."

(I left out the offensive part and replaced it with .....)

The average parent would ASK questions. The last thing they'd be thinking about would be damaging a case. They'd need enough information from the child to determine if they needed to contact social services or the police.

I agree, but there is always a "but" right? In the high profile cases of physician sex abuse, LE has been asking the parents of potential victims NOT to quiz their children or even discuss the recollections so as to not contaminate the testimony. Really. I spoke with a State Police Invistigator in MD over the Lewes, MD case when I was contacted by the parent of a potential victim via my email addy-that was what I was to instruct her...can you even imagine?

I dont know if I could hold myself to that...I think I would be trying so hard not to crush the child with my hugs and drown them with my tears... :(

BeanE
05-18-2010, 03:26 PM
There is a post down a ways by Puf which links to Venus's notes. You have to click on the link then download it to your computer. Here is an excerpt from it:

"My eyes got real big and I just sat there and didn't say anything ..... and I didn't want to go there with her. She kept on demanding an answer."

(I left out the offensive part and replaced it with .....)

The average parent would ASK questions. The last thing they'd be thinking about would be damaging a case. They'd need enough information from the child to determine if they needed to contact social services or the police.

All that is before the little girl told her about the molestation. At that point, the little girl was simply asking what that body part is.

I find no reason for a parent to interrogate a child who says they saw the other parent naked. Venus thought the child had seen Doug urinating. That's a normal assumption, and nothing to do an interrogation about.

You do make a point though, although an unintended one. If Venus were intent on bringing false charges of molestation against Doug, then as soon as her daughter said she simply saw him naked, I would think Venus would have jumped all over that. She didn't though. She didn't say to herself Oh my dear God he molested her! She didn't say to herself Wowzingo! Maybe I can 'get' him for molestation! She simply had a rational though, with no accusations of wrongdoing towards Doug - she thought Oh. He was just peeing.

This victim is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

Pondering Mind
05-18-2010, 03:28 PM
I don't mean to stand up for the "bad guy", but I haven't read anywhere that DS was found to be guilty of any type of abuse at all. So how is this relevant? In fact, the opposite has been reported, that he was accused and not charged after the investigation. Can you please link to the proof (other than hearsay and comments from the McComb family, etc) that he was an "abuser"? Because otherwise, these DV theories are speculation and based on nothing factual, certainly not on any shred of proof that DS was abusive.

Having an active PPO against someone is not proof that said someone has been abusive. I'm against all forms of domestic violence whether it's male on female or the reverse. But I believe it would be unwise to base many opinions of DS on assumptions that have been formed by statements made by biased individuals to the media and unsubtantiated allegations by someone that actually does have a public recorded history of abuse. The truth about what happened is what really needs to be investigated and when opinion is based 100% on hearsay and statements from one side of the fence, you aren't getting at the truth. IMO

bbm~
While you are absolutely right, the same holds true that just because there is NOT a PPO in place (or that there may not ever have been) does not mean someone isn't abusive. Stupid me..NEVER even called the police when my ex was abusive...at least not until after we split up. He would have killed me when he got out of jail, there's no doubt in my mind of that. Couldn't divorce him on those grounds either,..unless our oldest daughter testified against him and I wasn't going to have her do that..

Just saying, people are ashamed when they let this go on. Often times, as in my case, they tell no one..but I assure you that doesn't mean it didn't happen! My ex would tell someone to this day, in these words..'he never broke a bone or sent me to the hospital, so he was not abusive' :banghead:..I suppose that's how he has to see it to live with himself, ya know?

believe09
05-18-2010, 03:35 PM
I wish I could double thank your above post, BeanE

mommame
05-18-2010, 03:37 PM
I don't mean to stand up for the "bad guy", but I haven't read anywhere that DS was found to be guilty of any type of abuse at all. So how is this relevant? In fact, the opposite has been reported, that he was accused and not charged after the investigation. Can you please link to the proof (other than hearsay and comments from the McComb family, etc) that he was an "abuser"? Because otherwise, these DV theories are speculation and based on nothing factual, certainly not on any shred of proof that DS was abusive.

Having an active PPO against someone is not proof that said someone has been abusive. I'm against all forms of domestic violence whether it's male on female or the reverse. But I believe it would be unwise to base many opinions of DS on assumptions that have been formed by statements made by biased individuals to the media and unsubtantiated allegations by someone that actually does have a public recorded history of abuse. The truth about what happened is what really needs to be investigated and when opinion is based 100% on hearsay and statements from one side of the fence, you aren't getting at the truth. IMO

your post #185 is what I was replying to, and you said:

The million dollar question is...after your husband accuses your own father of doing something criminal...how do you end up back with him and relocating halfway accross the country with someone you claim to know is abusive, controlling, and dangerous to your own well-being? Especially, when you were already clearly separated and in the safety and care of your own parent's home?


As you said she was claiming he was abusive......

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 03:42 PM
I agree, but there is always a "but" right? In the high profile cases of physician sex abuse, LE has been asking the parents of potential victims NOT to quiz their children or even discuss the recollections so as to not contaminate the testimony. Really. I spoke with a State Police Invistigator in MD over the Lewes, MD case when I was contacted by the parent of a potential victim via my email addy-that was what I was to instruct her...can you even imagine?

I dont know if I could hold myself to that...I think I would be trying so hard not to crush the child with my hugs and drown them with my tears... :(

My boyfriend had a child who was 5 who was acting out horribly. I couldn't figure out what was wrong because every avenue had been explored. Finally, I asked him if his mother ever touched him in a way that made him feel uncomfortable.

He told me, "Yes", then patted his crotch area and said she touched him there. I asked him if he ever slept with his mother in the bed to which he replied, "Yes". My next question was if she ever did things in the bed that made him uncomfortable. He replied, "Yes, she makes me touch her there with my finger like this!" (He then made a birdie finger!) I asked him what she did after that, and he said, "She goes outside and smokes a cigarette!"

When the boy, who was a NOTORIOUS liar, told his brother what his mom had been doing, the 7th grader immediately, without doubting what his brother had claimed, grabbed the phone, called his mother and told her what a SICK person she was.

The older brother clearly believed his little brother who was always lying about everything because she had done the same thing to him, although he would NOT admit it due to being too ashamed (I suspect).

Even thought two CART examines came out positive for sexual molestation of the boy by his mother, the district attorney didn't charge her because he believed he couldn't depend on the child to testify in court.

The father was awarded full custody of the boys and was ordered to allow reasonable visitation between the mother and the boys.

RubyRed
05-18-2010, 03:44 PM
Transcription of Venus' handwritten notes found by her father Larry McComb (as well as I can... it's so blurry in the video). I've attached this as a file, so if you don't want to read this, you can move on by. Names and places are subbed with asterisks.

The attach didn't come but thanks for doing that.

BeanE
05-18-2010, 03:44 PM
I don't mean to stand up for the "bad guy", but I haven't read anywhere that DS was found to be guilty of any type of abuse at all. So how is this relevant? In fact, the opposite has been reported, that he was accused and not charged after the investigation. Can you please link to the proof (other than hearsay and comments from the McComb family, etc) that he was an "abuser"? Because otherwise, these DV theories are speculation and based on nothing factual, certainly not on any shred of proof that DS was abusive.

Having an active PPO against someone is not proof that said someone has been abusive. I'm against all forms of domestic violence whether it's male on female or the reverse. But I believe it would be unwise to base many opinions of DS on assumptions that have been formed by statements made by biased individuals to the media and unsubtantiated allegations by someone that actually does have a public recorded history of abuse. The truth about what happened is what really needs to be investigated and when opinion is based 100% on hearsay and statements from one side of the fence, you aren't getting at the truth. IMO

What proof is there of Venus having been abusive toward Doug in the past two years? Just wondering. I haven't even seen any indication, let alone proof. No statements from anyone anywhere. Nothing. Not for two years. Not even one of those mean-nothing, hearsay-based, one-sided protective orders from Doug against Venus.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 03:50 PM
My boyfriend had a child who was 5 who was acting out horribly. I couldn't figure out what was wrong because every avenue had been explored. Finally, I asked him if his mother ever touched him in a way that made him feel uncomfortable.

He told me, "Yes", then patted his crotch area and said she touched him there. I asked him if he ever slept with his mother in the bed to which he replied, "Yes". My next question was if she ever did things in the bed that made him uncomfortable. He replied, "Yes, she makes me touch her there with my finger like this!" (He then made a birdie finger!) I asked him what she did after that, and he said, "She goes outside and smokes a cigarette!"

When the boy, who was a NOTORIOUS liar, told his brother what his mom had been doing, the 7th grader immediately, without doubting what his brother had claimed, grabbed the phone, called his mother and told her what a SICK person she was.

The older brother clearly believed his little brother who was always lying about everything because she had done the same thing to him, although he would NOT admit it due to being too ashamed (I suspect).

Even thought two CART examines came out positive for sexual molestation of the boy by his mother, the district attorney didn't charge her because he believed he couldn't depend on the child to testify in court.

The father was awarded full custody of the boys and was ordered to allow reasonable visitation between the mother and the boys.

Please tell me reasonable visitation was supervised. BBM. See, this is often a problem that I have read about in the past. At what age can a child testify? I'm getting OT here, but there has to be other means for which a child can be protected when the allegations are true.

Ugh. All I can hope at this point is Venus is found...... if not, there is too great a risk that Doug will gain custody of the kids and the maternal grandparents will have to fight for access to the kids. :( This is a no win situation all around. :(

believe09
05-18-2010, 03:53 PM
My boyfriend had a child who was 5 who was acting out horribly. I couldn't figure out what was wrong because every avenue had been explored. Finally, I asked him if his mother ever touched him in a way that made him feel uncomfortable.

He told me, "Yes", then patted his crotch area and said she touched him there. I asked him if he ever slept with his mother in the bed to which he replied, "Yes". My next question was if she ever did things in the bed that made him uncomfortable. He replied, "Yes, she makes me touch her there with my finger like this!" (He then made a birdie finger!) I asked him what she did after that, and he said, "She goes outside and smokes a cigarette!"

When the boy, who was a NOTORIOUS liar, told his brother what his mom had been doing, the 7th grader immediately, without doubting what his brother had claimed, grabbed the phone, called his mother and told her what a SICK person she was.

The older brother clearly believed his little brother who was always lying about everything because she had done the same thing to him, although he would NOT admit it due to being too ashamed (I suspect).

Even thought two CART examines came out positive for sexual molestation of the boy by his mother, the district attorney didn't charge her because he believed he couldn't depend on the child to testify in court.

The father was awarded full custody of the boys and was ordered to allow reasonable visitation between the mother and the boys.

OMG-what a story. I am speechless.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 03:56 PM
In Doug's apartment, the police removed two digital voice recorders. They most have some relevance to the case. Maybe Doug recorded some of their arguments, and she threatened to accuse him of child molestation.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 04:00 PM
He doesn't appear to worried. People uptown say he is in town, looking for a job,and seeking custody.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 04:01 PM
Please tell me reasonable visitation was supervised. BBM. See, this is often a problem that I have read about in the past. At what age can a child testify? I'm getting OT here, but there has to be other means for which a child can be protected when the allegations are true.

Ugh. All I can hope at this point is Venus is found...... if not, there is too great a risk that Doug will gain custody of the kids and the maternal grandparents will have to fight for access to the kids. :( This is a no win situation all around. :(

No, it was whatever the father determined to be reasonable which could have been one hour a year supervised.

The father was ABUSING me and I moved out. After that, he was allowing the boys to spend a lot of time with the mother so he could be irresponsible and drink.

The court had ordered her to move out of her boyfriend's house and get her own place because he was locking the little one in the closet and dragging him around the house by the hair.

When I returned a few months later, the boys told me that the man was living with the mother in violation of the order.

I filed a Motion for Order To Show Cause for Contempt, a judge assigned the children an attorney, the mother BRIBED the children with promises of new bikes, etc. to get them to say they wanted to live with her every other week so that was what happened.

And, the mother MARRIED the man who the court ordered to stay away from the boys!

spamelope
05-18-2010, 04:02 PM
In Doug's apartment, the police removed two digital voice recorders. They most have some relevance to the case. Maybe Doug recorded some of their arguments, and she threatened to accuse him of child molestation.

I think they can only take things that are relevant to the murder investigation. That would be a civil case. But I am wildly curious about why those items were taken. I can't see how they could fit into this case. I take it your trip to get paint wasn't fruitful and you aren't coming back with the answers to our questions? lol Drats.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 04:04 PM
I now lot's of people who know what's going on, but feel funny about asking them and posting it on web.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 04:13 PM
I now lot's of people who know what's going on, but feel funny about asking them and posting it on web.

Find out whatever you can but to protect yourself and avoid having your posts flagged for removal, make sure that you don't reveal who gave you the information and state that your information has not been verified and can only be considered speculation at this point, something I believe we are allowed to do.

The last thing you need is for people in your community to become angry with you for quoting them on the Internet.

I've seen other people post that they spoke with someone close to the case who revealed information which they posted on Websleuths. If you cross the line, I'm sure you'll be notified immediately by a moderator about what is an unacceptable post if you cross the line.

We are all here to learn as much as we can and want to know what you can learn. Hopefully you can present the information in a manner that will not violate Websleuths' Terms of Service.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 04:33 PM
It was being openly discussed at the coffee shop. The same one's the police eat in each day.

Were coffee employee's saying they overheard the police discussing the case amongst themselves? If so, what were they reportedly saying? I think that's allowed.

BeanE
05-18-2010, 04:33 PM
Here's the guidance we post for locals and those who know the victim in the cases we follow:

I just wanted to say welcome again to any locals or those who know Venus. We really do appreciate having you here. There are a few things to keep in mind, though.

Before you post ANY inside information that could help this case PLEASE report it to the police first. Here at Websleuths, we don't care about having "scoops" or "bombshells." We care about the cases, the people involved, and making sure Websleuths is not hindering the investigation by allowing people to post inside information that the police do not have yet.

If you know Venus and want to post about her, then Websleuths' owner Tricia needs to talk to you. Please email her at tgrif@xmission.com

Unless what you are saying can be verified by law enforcement and/or the media, it is not considered a "fact" here. You may personally know for 100% certainty that it is true, but unless you are verified and/or can back it up with a link, we do have to consider it to be a rumor. This is not to single anyone out or to ignore information, but to maintain the integrity of a case and keep the best interests of the victims at the forefront.

Please do what is right by the case first before you post anything on Websleuths.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 04:39 PM
I don't recall knowing them, the stuff I hear fits under the rumor definition. Besides, if someone tells me, it will ruin the challenge.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 04:39 PM
Here's the guidance we post for locals and those who know the victim in the cases we follow:

I just wanted to say welcome again to any locals or those who know Venus. We really do appreciate having you here. There are a few things to keep in mind, though.

Before you post ANY inside information that could help this case PLEASE report it to the police first. Here at Websleuths, we don't care about having "scoops" or "bombshells." We care about the cases, the people involved, and making sure Websleuths is not hindering the investigation by allowing people to post inside information that the police do not have yet.

If you know Venus and want to post about her, then Websleuths' owner Tricia needs to talk to you. Please email her at tgrif@xmission.com

Unless what you are saying can be verified by law enforcement and/or the media, it is not considered a "fact" here. You may personally know for 100% certainty that it is true, but unless you are verified and/or can back it up with a link, we do have to consider it to be a rumor. This is not to single anyone out or to ignore information, but to maintain the integrity of a case and keep the best interests of the victims at the forefront.

Please do what is right by the case first before you post anything on Websleuths.

To clarify, could the poster who was at the cafe where this case was being openly discussed and where the local police gather together for coffee, post a comment like this:

"I was at the local coffee shop today and one of the cafe employees said several police were having coffee this morning and told them that ..........................................." or "I was sitting next to the table where four local police officers were having coffee and they were loudly discussing this case and I heard one of them say .............................." ?

Cubby
05-18-2010, 04:43 PM
To clarify, could the poster who was at the cafe where this case was being openly discussed and where the local police gather together for coffee, post a comment like this:

"I was at the local coffee shop today and one of the cafe employees said several police were having coffee this morning and told me that ..........................................." or "I was sitting next to the table where four local police officers were having coffee and they were loudly discussing this case and I heard one of them say .............................." ?


I don't think I would be that specific. I might say something along the lines of 'local rumor has it..... or overheard at a local coffee shop...... The last thing we want done is for anyone to pinpoint who is spreading rumors or speculation such as the employee at kind of thing. I would be cautious in sharing the rumor rather than who I heard it from kind of thing. For their protection of course.

At least that is how I would choose to share the info. I don't know that it matters so much who or where speculation starts other than it being local talk.

blackdog
05-18-2010, 04:43 PM
I did not hear it from the police only talkative patrons of the restaurant passing time.

BeanE
05-18-2010, 04:51 PM
Here's a post from Tricia specific to locals (those who live in the area but don't know the victim).

************************************************** ************************************************** **********
NEW RULES ABOUT POSTING OUT AND OUT RUMORS.
Many posters have been requesting Rumor Threads on several cases. We do have a Rumor Thread in the members only part of WS about Haleigh Cummings. The reason we did this was because an overwhelming amount of locals who knew both families wanted to post. The best way to handle that situation was to have a rumor thread in the private area. However, I don't want rumor threads on all the cases. Too much time is needed to moderate a rumor thread and it can get very weary.

It would be naive of me not to recognize the aspect of rumors in cases like Elizabeth Olten and Somer. Therefore we are going to try something different.

If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back.

If anyone has any questions go ahead and ask me, PM me or email me at tgrif@xmission.com

ETA: one more from Tricia. Love the dental care :)

*Rumor's for locals and only if it is clearly marked as such and benefits the discussion of the case. I don't care about a suspect dental care unless it involves the case.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO-New Diary Entry? Elizabeth Olten, 9, St. Martins Thread #7

Cubby
05-18-2010, 04:57 PM
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tricia http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4388319#post4388319)
************************************************** ************************************************** **********
NEW RULES ABOUT POSTING OUT AND OUT RUMORS.
Many posters have been requesting Rumor Threads on several cases. We do have a Rumor Thread in the members only part of WS about Haleigh Cummings. The reason we did this was because an overwhelming amount of locals who knew both families wanted to post. The best way to handle that situation was to have a rumor thread in the private area. However, I don't want rumor threads on all the cases. Too much time is needed to moderate a rumor thread and it can get very weary.

It would be naive of me not to recognize the aspect of rumors in cases like Elizabeth Olten and Somer. Therefore we are going to try something different.

If you are a local and you have heard a rumor that is not ridiculous post it clearly as a rumor.

I won't check if you say you are a local. This is different than saying you know the family.

If this doesn't work out because people start relying on rumors or repeating rumors as fact we will change it back.

If anyone has any questions go ahead and ask me, PM me or email me at tgrif@xmission.com (tgrif@xmission.com)



In other words, you don't need to email Tricia to verify you are a local IF the rumors are reasonable and refered to as rumor not fact.

I want to remind everyone, we don't want to hinder you or for you to be so afraid to post an opinion or theory that you are afraid to post anything without a link to back it up as fact. But on the other hand, we also don't want the theories to get so unreasonably out of hand the thread becomes one big rumor mill kind of thing.

I trust you all will use your best judgement and if you are unsure, pm one of the moderators assigned to the forum or admin to ask first.

TIA! :)

spamelope
05-18-2010, 04:58 PM
Well, as long as it's not about teeth, blackdog, I guess you're good to go as long as you warn us that it's a rumor.
(Quietly fist pumping here) LOL

RubyRed
05-18-2010, 05:04 PM
All that is before the little girl told her about the molestation. At that point, the little girl was simply asking what that body part is.

I find no reason for a parent to interrogate a child who says they saw the other parent naked. Venus thought the child had seen Doug urinating. That's a normal assumption, and nothing to do an interrogation about.

You do make a point though, although an unintended one. If Venus were intent on bringing false charges of molestation against Doug, then as soon as her daughter said she simply saw him naked, I would think Venus would have jumped all over that. She didn't though. She didn't say to herself Oh my dear God he molested her! She didn't say to herself Wowzingo! Maybe I can 'get' him for molestation! She simply had a rational though, with no accusations of wrongdoing towards Doug - she thought Oh. He was just peeing.

This victim is damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

bbm

I read this in Pufs attachment, She said "Dad wanted me to pet it so I did."

Does that not warrant more questioning? Link to Pufs post below.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #5

blackdog
05-18-2010, 05:04 PM
I will be more careful in the future. I'm going back to painting for a couple hrs.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 05:06 PM
I will be more careful in the future. I'm going back to painting for a couple hrs.

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo
LOL
Hurry back. And I do mean that. lol

Cubby
05-18-2010, 05:15 PM
bbm

I read this in Pufs attachment, She said "Dad wanted me to pet it so I did."

Does that not warrant more questioning? Link to Pufs post below.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5197655&postcount=114)


IMO, the transcription of what puf' was able to make out of the video is too short for an accurate 'analysis' of whether the allegation was fact or fiction. IMO - I am taking or interpreting it as coming from a very angry father right now. I don't blame him as he has every right to be angry, but as a parent if I were concerned about my children or grandchildren being molested by a family member I would refrain from commenting about said events until I could do so without being emotional or without having brough this to LE or someone who was in a position to verify such first.

Otherwise, at least imo, it only sounds like bringing more family into the ugliness of a bitter custody battle. At least where it pertains to allegations not proven.

JMO

BeanE
05-18-2010, 05:56 PM
bbm

I read this in Pufs attachment, She said "Dad wanted me to pet it so I did."

Does that not warrant more questioning? Link to Pufs post below.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MI MI - Venus Rose Stewart, 32, Colon, 28 April 2010 - ABDUCTED - #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5197655&postcount=114)


The post I was responding to wasn't addressing that part of the conversation. It was addressing all the stuff that came before that part:

my daughter out of nowhere says to me, "What's that thing that hangs between dad's legs?"

My eyes got real big and I just sat there and didn't say anything thinking that she maybe saw him peeing and I didn't want to go there with her.

She kept on demanding an answer.

She says, "You know mom that long thing that hangs from his butt."

I said - when did you see that?

She says - "At the old house" (She is referring to the old house in Schoolcraft, MI)

But since you ask about that subsequent part, yes, IMO, that definitely warrants questioning. The transcription doesn't say whether or not Venus questioned her daughter about that part at that time.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 06:04 PM
The post I was responding to wasn't addressing that part of the conversation. It was addressing all the stuff that came before that part:

my daughter out of nowhere says to me, "What's that thing that hangs between dad's legs?"

My eyes got real big and I just sat there and didn't say anything thinking that she maybe saw him peeing and I didn't want to go there with her.

She kept on demanding an answer.

She says, "You know mom that long thing that hangs from his butt."

I said - when did you see that?

She says - "At the old house" (She is referring to the old house in Schoolcraft, MI)

But since you ask about that subsequent part, yes, IMO, that definitely warrants questioning. The transcription doesn't say whether or not Venus questioned her daughter about that part at that time.

I don't to criticize Venus. But, when a little girl asks about her father's penis, to me, that would warrant immediate questions, not just ignoring to the point where the child has to demand answers.

My daughter NEVER saw a man's penis and she lived with four males. To me, that would be a big red flag.

It is also not clear how much time transpired between when this incident supposedly happened and when the child reported it.

If several months had passed since the move to Virginia, I would be very curious as to why the child was suddenly bringing the matter up now.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 06:04 PM
I am really sad that in 10 years, when this girl googles herself, these words will still be there for her and her classmates to see. These allegations were said to be unfounded, or not provable, but now this is going to be linked to her forever. SHE did not deserve this lack of privacy. It is unconscionable that this was given to the press. It's disgusting.
Sorry, all, but this really bothers me.

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 06:09 PM
I am really sad that in 10 years, when this girl googles herself, these words will still be there for her and her classmates to see. These allegations were said to be unfounded, or not provable, but now this is going to be linked to her forever. SHE did not deserve this lack of privacy. It is unconscionable that this was given to the press. It's disgusting.
Sorry, all, but this really bothers me.

You are absolutely right. The thought never crossed my mind about the child growing up and possibly reading about these allegations/notes on the Internet.

I have to wonder why the father took them to the press rather than to the police! (Isn't that what happened?)

In his rush to crucify Doug, he threw his precious granddaughter to the wolves.

believe09
05-18-2010, 06:10 PM
Seeing as how we are repressed Americans, lol, I can see people taking issue. But I have to tell you that I would not assume my daughter had been molested if she could talk about a penis. It would warrant a few questions from me for sure, but I do not know that I would see it as a red flag.

trigger
05-18-2010, 06:17 PM
I am really sad that in 10 years, when this girl googles herself, these words will still be there for her and her classmates to see. These allegations were said to be unfounded, or not provable, but now this is going to be linked to her forever. SHE did not deserve this lack of privacy. It is unconscionable that this was given to the press. It's disgusting.
Sorry, all, but this really bothers me.

ITA spamelope, it is disgusting. Makes me so angry.

Are there any more plans to search for her? TIA

spamelope
05-18-2010, 06:18 PM
You are absolutely right. The thought never crossed my mind about the child growing up and possibly reading about these allegations/notes on the Internet.

I have to wonder why the father took them to the press rather than to the police! (Isn't that what happened?)

In his rush to crucify Doug, he threw his precious granddaughter to the wolves.

The notes/allegations had already been turned in by Venus either to the police or social services, or both. They were said to be unproven. LM has no good reason turning them over to the press. Revenge doesn't count. It makes me all the more curious about the allegations made against LM and his motives for casting dispersions on DS from day 1. I don't know how anyone, ANYONE, could do that to a sweet, innocent little girl.

spamelope
05-18-2010, 06:23 PM
Hi trigger! I know that LE plans on searching that lake where the non-poi was at once the water level goes down. I don't know of any legitimate searches that are sanctioned by LE going on. They are being very, very quiet.
Where is TES? All LE or the family has to do is ask for them to come. Does anyone know how Tim's wife is?

thinkaboutthis
05-18-2010, 06:26 PM
What proof is there of Venus having been abusive toward Doug in the past two years? Just wondering. I haven't even seen any indication, let alone proof. No statements from anyone anywhere. Nothing. Not for two years. Not even one of those mean-nothing, hearsay-based, one-sided protective orders from Doug against Venus.


(FROM PUF'S TIMELINE)
November 2008 - Venus is charged with domestic violence, but several months later pleads no contest to disturbing the peace.

If Puf's timeline is accurate, and I'm confident it is, VS was charged with DV only about a year and half ago and the charges were plead down several months later...either way, well INSIDE of your two years. Interestingly, DS more than likely would have had to agree with or even request that the court reduce her DV charge down to the lesser charge.

I never said that a protective order means nothing, I said it is not evidence of abuse, because it is possible to get a PPO against someone who has literally done nothing to you if you present a compelling enough story to the judge who is deciding on the application. PPO is a one-sided process isn't it? How many of the people on the other side of the PPO come in and assist the "victim" with getting the PPO approved against them? Like none? So I'd say it's pretty one-sided.

Cubby
05-18-2010, 06:28 PM
FWIW, 10 years from now this thread might be tucked away in the archives or buried in so many online hits it may be hard to find.

JMO

PickieChickie
05-18-2010, 06:29 PM
Seeing as how we are repressed Americans, lol, I can see people taking issue. But I have to tell you that I would not assume my daughter had been molested if she could talk about a penis. It would warrant a few questions from me for sure, but I do not know that I would see it as a red flag.

Any man who lives in the household with a little girl who doesn't lock the bathroom or bedroom door so she can't walk in and see his penis is not being the gentleman and responsible adult I would want around my little daughter.

Granted, people are raised differently to the point some adults walk around the house naked in front of their children and take them to nude beaches and nudest colonies.

I, myself, would never have a relationship with a man who would be careless enough to allow my little daughter to see his penis! That is just how I am. I never saw a man's penis until I was an appropriate age and in an appropriate situation.

Given that, if my daughter asked me what that thing hanging between my boyfriend's legs was, I would immediately ask her when and where she saw it.

By red flag, I meant something that would immediately get my attention and prompt me to immediately get to the bottom of the matter, not simply avoid discussing it because I didn't want to go there.

pufnstuf
05-18-2010, 06:36 PM
I think that something needs to be clarified. WARNING--the FOLLOWING IS GRAPHIC:

The note is nearly impossible to read, and I was only able to read it after screencapping the part I could read, putting it into photoshop, turning it into a greyscale image, and then adjusting the brightness contrast to make the ink stand out. Also, the screencapped image--the right margin was off of the page, so where it says "hard and little _____" the words after little are missing on the right margin.

The child could have said that it was "hard and little bumps were on it." We don't know, because that part of the sentence ran of the page. Where the words ran off the page, I placed underscores and ellipses.