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Salem
05-19-2010, 10:45 AM
Please continue here.

Thread 5



Just a note to thank all the posters for warning us about graphic or sensitive posts so that those of us that need to, can skip the post.

This is a heartbreaking crime, so needless, I just have no words.

I hope the case against the perps is STRONG and TIGHT and that the maximum sentence is handed down when the time comes.

Salem

Salem
05-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Bringing BeanE's last post over:

'They need to pay for taking my son away,' Ethan Stacy's father says
Hometown mourns during service
Published: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 1:05 a.m. MDT

This is a three page article


Stacy recalled how his son was a quick learner.

"I could show him how to do something, he'd pick it up just like that," he told the Deseret News Tuesday. "He's just a very intelligent boy."

Stacy recalled how his son was "a great boy," how he loved to go to the playground and how most recently he had developed a strong liking for PlayStation video games.

"He'd stay glued to it all day if I let him," Stacy said.


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700033363/Ethans-dad-They-need-to-pay.html

Vegas Bride
05-19-2010, 11:00 AM
Does anyone else remember early on a neighbor at the apartment complex talking about seeing Ethan after he arrived? I recall her saying that she had seen him more than once and that he was always in his spiderman pajamas.
I'm just thinking that it could help with the timeline for when everything began to go downhill. I don't recall her saying anything about seeing bruises.

Another thing I've been thinking about is how after Ethan arrived, was pos N expecting him to call him daddy? Could pos S have told him he was never going back to Joe but instead would be staying with them and that N is now his daddy.

VB

essies
05-19-2010, 11:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcYRr1dk7wA

WITH HOPE
This is not at all how
We thought it was supposed to be
We had so many plans for you
We had so many dreams
And now you've gone away
And left us with the memories of your smile
And nothing we can say
And nothing we can do
Can take away the pain
The pain of losing you, but ...

We can cry with hope
We can say goodbye with hope
'Cause we know our goodbye is not the end, oh no
And we can grieve with hope
'Cause we believe with hope
(There's a place by God's grace)
There's a place where we'll see your face again
We'll see your face again

And never have I known
Anything so hard to understand
And never have I questioned more
The wisdom of God's plan
But through the cloud of tears
I see the Father's smile and say well done
And I imagine you
Where you wanted most to be
Seeing all your dreams come true
'Cause now you're home
And now you're free, and ...

We have this hope as an anchor
'Cause we believe that everything
God promised us is true, so ...

We wait with hope
And we ache with hope
We hold on with hope
We let go with hope

Calliope
05-19-2010, 11:19 AM
This song breaks my heart. Bringing it forward from last thread.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g2IlaDLVLo


Light a candle for little Ethan:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=ws-es

Calliope
05-19-2010, 11:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWMk_MoFTFM

BeanE
05-19-2010, 11:53 AM
Does anyone else remember early on a neighbor at the apartment complex talking about seeing Ethan after he arrived? I recall her saying that she had seen him more than once and that he was always in his spiderman pajamas.
I'm just thinking that it could help with the timeline for when everything began to go downhill. I don't recall her saying anything about seeing bruises.

Another thing I've been thinking about is how after Ethan arrived, was pos N expecting him to call him daddy? Could pos S have told him he was never going back to Joe but instead would be staying with them and that N is now his daddy.

VB

Here's a neighbor who saw him, but no mention of his pajamas. I remember the one who said he was wearing pajamas.

Another neighbor of the Sloops, Gary McPhie, said to KUTV he was sure he saw the boy just two days ago walking in the apartment complex. "If parents do this to a little boy, what's the world come to?" McPhie wondered.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20004781-504083.html

McPhie says he saw Ethan a couple of times with his mother.

"He was quiet. You had to talk to him. He wouldn't talk to you," says McPhie.

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Who-are-the-parents-charged-with-killing-Ethan/6Wi0Q9xJ4k2ArjyYyTjwLA.cspx

A former neighbor told the Deseret News that just days ago she saw the Sloops, including Ethan, return to Nathan Sloop's Roy house, which is now up for sale, to move more items.

"I saw that little boy carrying toys out," said Rheta Phillips, who lived next door to Nathan Sloop for about seven years

http://www.deseretnews.com/mobile/article/700031731/Affidavit-reveals-disturbing-details-of-Ethan-Stacys-last-days.html

In the short time he'd been in Utah, Ethan had already caught the attention of his new neighbors.

"He was carrying, not heavy things, but bulky, and he was just a trooper," neighbor Karen Creasap said. "I was laughing, because it was so cute.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=10728945

Although Hope never saw Ethan, other neighbors, including the Sloops' downstairs neighbor Gary McPhee, said he'd occasionally seen the little boy wandering around by himself. Police aren't sure when the boy was killed, but McPhee said he last saw Ethan on either Saturday or Sunday.

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100020825&docId=l:1184767448&start=1


"I think they should get the death penalty," said Mario Valdez, whose children played with Ethan Stacy on the day he vanished. "

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-ethan-stacy-charges-pending,0,4986822.story

Wright said Ethan played with her daughter in the courtyard a couple of times.

She described him as "a cute little boy."

http://www.standard.net/topics/ethan-stacy/2010/05/12/neighbors-gather-mourn-death-4-year-old-utah-boy

I found all those but I'll be darned if I can find the one saying he had his pajamas on. I swear I saw it too.

Calliope
05-19-2010, 12:08 PM
Although Hope never saw Ethan, other neighbors, including the Sloops' downstairs neighbor Gary McPhee, said he'd occasionally seen the little boy wandering around by himself. Police aren't sure when the boy was killed, but McPhee said he last saw Ethan on either Saturday or Sunday.

The week before he was murdered, maybe.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 12:16 PM
Time-line for Ethan Stacy 4yo.

WARNING: GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING.
revision (05/18/10 - eyes4crime & wonderful fellow sleuthers)

April 28th - Wednesday
Divorce papers finalized in Florida, Ethan and mom Stephanie fly to Utah

May 4th - Tuesday
..Last time Ethan talks with dad Joe
..Posted on Face Book, the first of 17 cell phone pictures & videos mom takes of abuse over the days.
..Picture time-stamped May 4th of Ethan with large, notable, area of swelling to jaw and face.

May5th - Wednesday
..Nate's mom sees son Nate, Ethan, and Stephanie - says all is fine (specific meeting place not mentioned).
..Stephanie visits Nate's mom.
..Nate takes Ethan in bedroom to punish and beats child around head area; face begins to swell.
..Stephanie continues to complain about Ethan's behavior.
.. Ethan's father, Joe Stacy, was told his son wasn't available to talk, a trend that continues through Ethan's limited stay.

May 5th - May 8th
Ethan "exhibits signs and symptoms of a possible head injury or brain swelling due to a head injury,"

Stephanie Sloop told police Tuesday while being interviewed about her son's death: Ethan did not eat well, was vomiting, lethargic and exhibited non-responsive behavior, according to the reports.

May 6th - Thursday (wedding day)
Ethan locked in bedroom while Stephanie and Nate marry; door knob taken off. Nate and Stephanie leave child in bedroom due to swelling and bruises.

From Warrant of Probable Cause:
Over the next several days, Ethan got progressively ill, police said Stephanie Sloop told detectives. He was vomiting, running a fever and would not eat. The couple forced the boy to drink two 16 oz. bottles of water, a bottle of KoolAid and orange juice in a two-hour period, police wrote in the jail statement. (from warrant of probable cause). Motrin and Benadryl were given for the swelling and Nate gave Benadryl so Ethan would stay quiet.

Thursday, May 6 or Friday, May 7:
Neighbor recalls seeing Stephanie walking away from the apartment seemingly agitated and stopping to look back at the apartment several times. A short time later Nathan followed her, put his hands on her face in a manner leading the neighbor to believe he was asking she please listen to him.

May 7th, Friday
Three nights before Stephanie and her new husband, Nathan Sloop, reported Ethan missing, Jones said Stephanie left a series of frantic voice messages.
Related:
"She left crying, messages while she was crying, 'Ethan, he's crying. He won't stop crying. He wants his mommy. I don't know what to do. Please, please, call me. I don't know how to handle it. I don't know what to do,'" Jones said.

The final message, she now believes, may have come after Ethan died.

"It was absolutely hysterical, sobbing to where I couldn't understand what she was saying," Jones said. "if I had to look deep into my heart, yeah, I would probably have to say that Ethan probably was dead, if not close to being dead at that point. And it was her grief reaching out."

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

May 8th - Saturday
..Found smeared feces on bathroom wall and on Nate.
..Found feces in mouth and again brushed teeth.
..Notices Ethan's lips bleeding.
.. Blood and vomit found in child's bed.
..Stephanie needs to wash bed sheets due to blood and vomit from Ethan's mouth.

May 9th - Sunday (Mother's Day)
.. 5:00am - Stephanie makes trip to Walgreens to pick up RX.
..5:30am - Returns from store and told by Nate Ethan is dead
..Stephanie finds Ethan dead in bed - reports Ethan feels cold and stiff, and without pulse.

..Stephanie attempts CPR to no avail
...Stephanie goes to bed

Ethan is wrapped in plastic garbage bags and taped, brought to Powder Mountain area for burial. Hammer used to disfigure facial features and teeth of Ethan.
Stephanie goes on errand purchasing 2 slushies and 2 cans lighter fluid to destroy evidence.

May 10th (Monday)
..Reported that Nate and Stephanie were shopping at Best Buy for video games and to fix Play Station 3
..Ethan's father calls and talks with Nate rather than Stephanie
..11:55pm - Stephanie reports Ethan missing
...Tells police a made up story about Ethan leaving the apt. 5x over the last 4 nights.

May 11th (Tuesday)
LE finds child buried - teeth and face smashed in with hammer, lighter fluid used to destroy evidence.

Please let me know of any additions or deletions. TIA
Thanks to all of you with suggestions for additions/corrections - used every one of them.

Warrant of Probable Cause: Most of the time-line comes from Probable Cause document. Quotes, LE media leases

NATHAN
http://connect2utah.com/images/Multi...an%20Sloop.pdf

STEPHANIE
http://connect2utah.com/images/Multi...0C%20Sloop.pdf

Fellow sleuthers - please continue to let me know of updates, new information, corrections. Thanks for all your help!
__________________

essies
05-19-2010, 12:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n5NB8JYchQ

essies
05-19-2010, 12:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPIejtPx4bg

raeann
05-19-2010, 12:26 PM
If anyone has been following the Kayleah W. thread.....a body has been found very near to where she went missing....no ID as of yet.

truthsleuth
05-19-2010, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by BeanE'
They need to pay for taking my son away,' Ethan Stacy's father says
Hometown mourns during service

Stacy recalled how his son was a quick learner.
"I could show him how to do something, he'd pick it up just like that," he told the Deseret News Tuesday. "He's just a very intelligent boy."

Stacy recalled how his son was "a great boy," how he loved to go to the playground and how most recently he had developed a strong liking for PlayStation video games. He'd stay glued to it all day if I let him."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ed-to-pay.html

I'm not clear on whether or not this has been discussed, since I have taken many steps backwards to avoid all the pain of this case. For a while it was just too much for me to handle.

My question: Did NS blame Ethan for breaking Nathan's Playstation?? We know that it was broken because NS and SS went to get it repaired on the 10th. And is this why the beating and abuse of Ethan began--because Nathan was so angry over problems with his PS3?

Seems obvious Playstation was an NS obsession. Shortly after killing and burying Ethan, NS and SS headed out to Best Buy to have their Playstation repaired ... very important stuff after having murdered a 4 year old. Sorry, yes that was sarcasm.

Muffet
05-19-2010, 12:39 PM
It's probably folly to try to understand what their thought processes were, but the contradictions are driving me to distraction.

Primarily, how does the posting and keeping of such self-incriminating pics comport with the time and energy spent in the cover up?

I can think of various sick reasons (sadistic thrill, extortion, framing "Frank"...) to take photos of such obvious injuries, but why take them, and post them to facebook, and leave them on her cell for LE to see?

Even the first of the 17 shows an obvious blow to his little mouth and jaw, and LE says the pics got progressively worse.

How could she have expected no one to notice? She had friends on there, didn't she? Heck, did none of them see the pics? Have we been given the dates she posted them?

Did she expect to explain all those pics with the peanut allergy BS?

How does posting those pics - and leaving them on her cell phone for LE to see - mesh with taking at least an entire day to set up a cover story and distant burial and attempt to destroy evidence before reporting to LE?

This scenario doesn't even make sense if they were drugged out, does it? If they were still that high when they went to LE, wouldn't LE have said something about drugs being involved?

I think they are both pathological, toxic personalities, but I don't see past evidence of intellectual deficits; in fact, they appear to be very calculating. Even though they likely think the rest of the world is stupid, the posting of those pics and keeping them on the cell phone goes way beyond that kind of arrogance.

(eta: Sorry for the long, circular post; I think my head's just going to explode if these thoughts don't stop cycling in my mind. :o )

essies
05-19-2010, 12:50 PM
I wonder if NS knew SS was taking pictures-well, obviously he knew about the one we have seen. But, did he know about the others? Did he know she was posting that picture on FB? I can't figure them out either!! There is no excuse-just plain evil!!:furious:

Calliope
05-19-2010, 01:05 PM
His funeral has begun.

Prayers for Joe and all who loved and cherished this little boy. I take comfort in knowing how dearly he was loved. Rest in peace, little Ethan.

BeanE
05-19-2010, 01:06 PM
His funeral has begun.

Prayers for Joe and all who loved and cherished this little boy. I take comfort in knowing how dearly he was loved. Rest in peace, little Ethan.

Thank you Calliope.

Praying for Joe and everyone who knew and loved sweet little Ethan.

RoseWhite
05-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Praying for them all.

I wish that all the love and caring could bring Ethan back and make this never have happened. I'm trying to deal with my emotions... turn it to love and hope that Ethan is in a better place.

Bless you, Ethan. May your kind, innocent and wonderful soul be at peace.

BeanE
05-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Light a candle for Ethan here if you wish:
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=ws-es

RoseWhite
05-19-2010, 01:32 PM
Light a candle for Ethan here if you wish:
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=ws-es

Thank you for reposting the link. So many candles for Ethan...the amount of caring is amazing.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 01:33 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs326.snc3/28895_1483117436756_1198453058_1408269_4782377_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs538.snc3/30506_1415242053825_1015772169_1202385_8325495_n.j pg

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1408269&op=1&o=global&view=global&subj=116369541732606&id=1198453058

Thinking of you today Ethan, and your family.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 01:39 PM
Thank you for reposting the link. So many candles for Ethan...the amount of caring is amazing.


The funeral director says he has never seen this kind of outpouring of support in his 30-plus years of funeral work. That support comes from all around the country. For example, he says one woman from Alabama called the funeral home to make sure a small stuffed animal she sent for the funeral arrived.

Ethan's body now lies in a blue casket with gold trim and angels on the corners. He also has his favorite toy -- a Transformer -- in the casket with him.

The funeral home's website usually gets about 3,000 hits a month but it got 7,000 hits on Ethan's page in the past four days.


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10833003

SuziQ
05-19-2010, 01:52 PM
Former co-worker: Nathan Sloop does not have mental illness

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10834481

Radio interview with co-worker:

http://real.ksl.com/video/slc/3/320/32073.mp3

SuziQ
05-19-2010, 02:01 PM
Interesting to listen to the co-worker talk about thinking she can detect bad people pretty well. And yet nothing about NS alerted her. Sounds sociopathic. They can fool the most alert people. They can easily fool lie detecters and hinky meters.

SuziQ
05-19-2010, 02:06 PM
A common thread I see in perps like these two is the narcissism and arrogance is usually their undoing. Which is what I think is behind the taking of the pics, videos and posting the pics online.

Calliope
05-19-2010, 02:07 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/es1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/ethanjoe3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/ethanjoe1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/es00.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/es99.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/es111.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/ethan-7.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/ribbon-1.png

darlin gal
05-19-2010, 02:11 PM
Video of Joe on the right
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

Calliope
05-19-2010, 02:14 PM
Interesting to listen to the co-worker talk about thinking she can detect bad people pretty well. And yet nothing about NS alerted her. Sounds sociopathic. They can fool the most alert people. They can easily fool lie detecters and hinky meters.

Bingo. And how he taught people how to 'beat the system' so to speak.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 02:17 PM
Gone Too Soon.



http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/195/19507.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery


http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/195/19502.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/195/19505.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/195/19504.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/195/19500.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/194/19499.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/194/19498.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/194/19496.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery

http://www.ksl.com/emedia//usersubmittedpics/1/194/19495.jpg?filter=ksl/pgallery


http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10833003

eyes4crime
05-19-2010, 02:27 PM
The thread is such a beautiful tribute to little Ethan - thanks to everyone for the adorable pictures. Almost like I'm getting to know Ethan from the many great pictures.

On that note: I don't want to contaminate this thread with the time-line so I will bring it over much later. Thanks to everyone for such a clean and beautiful tribute to our little guy. moo

Calliope
05-19-2010, 02:29 PM
Aw Ruby, thanks so much. Such precious photos. The one kissing Daddy in front of the Christmas tree has me crying again. And the one with his little head poking out of the box has me laughing through my tears.

essies
05-19-2010, 02:39 PM
Video of Joe on the right
http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

Oh My Lord-hearing Joe's voice and seeing the new pics of Ethan that Ruby posted -I'm undone again!! RIP Little Man!!:blowkiss:

ThePhantom
05-19-2010, 02:41 PM
I love this little boy. At least he can never be hurt again. It's the only thing that keeps me on the balance with it.

KALI
05-19-2010, 03:10 PM
Where they are being held?

Anyone know more about where they are being held?

TIA;

suzyq211
05-19-2010, 03:19 PM
A common thread I see in perps like these two is the narcissism and arrogance is usually their undoing. Which is what I think is behind the taking of the pics, videos and posting the pics online.

Suzi, Ted Bundy comes to mind. Friends with Ann Rule, the true crime author...representing himself at trial.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 03:20 PM
I doubt they are in GP, they would not survive, they would be dead by now. In jail they are the lowest of the low. Other prisoners do not think highly of child killers, they have their own set of rules.

~greeneyedgirl~
05-19-2010, 03:23 PM
I felt compelled to go to the Grundy Funeral home site and leave a few words to Sweet Ethan, I was surprised to see his obituary state Saturday the 8th of May as his day of passing. That is what I had always thought but to actually see it in black and white. Man, this hurts a lot.....sorry, maybe I will finish later

essies
05-19-2010, 03:26 PM
I doubt they are in GP, they would not survive, they would be dead by now. In jail they are the lowest of the low. Other prisoners do not think highly of child killers, they have their own set of rules.

I imagine they are already talking about what they'd to NS and SS if given the chance!:croc:

Calliope
05-19-2010, 03:28 PM
Suzi, Ted Bundy comes to mind. Friends with Ann Rule, the true crime author...representing himself at trial.

Sociopaths.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 03:29 PM
I imagine they are already talking about what they'd to NS and SS if given the chance!:croc:

Wouldn't bother me one bit if they got them. Good riddance, they are a waste of skin.

Calliope
05-19-2010, 03:30 PM
What a sad day.

darlin gal
05-19-2010, 03:50 PM
What a sad day.




Sure is. I had a comforting thought though earlier... about just as Ethan was being laid to rest, the news about the Greeley body being found was breaking....that perhaps our angel Ethan guided Kayleah home today.


A sad peaceful thought.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 04:27 PM
Thanks Cher352

Eyes4crime , This looks like a change to the Timeline His Dad last talked to him May 3

Stacy said that Ethan told him in their last phone conversation on May 3rd that he was having fun visiting his mom in Layton. Prior to leaving, Ethan hadn’t wanted to go.



http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 04:41 PM
Ethan’s grieving dad, Joe Stacy sat down with ABC4 and said he may never get over losing his son; never get over losing Ethan, who he fondly recalls as a loving, smart boy about to start kindergarten in the fall.



“I’ve got to learn to accept the fact that he’s not coming home. I really have it in my head that he’s coming home, and he’s not.”

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

CCup
05-19-2010, 05:57 PM
Amazing pics and videos....thanks to all who posted them.

AmandaReckonwith
05-19-2010, 06:07 PM
Grieving Dad:
“I’ve got to learn to accept the fact that
he’s not coming home.
I really have it in my head that he’s coming home,
and he’s not.”

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Ethan%20Stacy/IveGotToLearnHowToAcceptThatHesNotC.jpg

SondraK
05-19-2010, 06:34 PM
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15118572

SS mother at funeral ..... heartwrenching!!!!

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 06:42 PM
Lucy Hicks, Elswick's mother, said Ethan visited her while she was in the hospital and kissed all of her bruises from where she was poked with needles. She broke down crying when she hugged her future son-in-law.
"I told him that all my boo-boos Ethan kissed were better now, and that Ethan's boo-boos are better now, too, because God kissed them away," she said.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15118572

RoseWhite
05-19-2010, 06:48 PM
I am still not able to deal or comprehend the reality of all of this. I don't think I ever will.

Jenny60123
05-19-2010, 06:49 PM
I stumbled upon this story yesterday. It's taken me two full days to read through all of the threads, and honestly it's a good thing because i'd of certainly been given a time out for saying something during my initial shock. This is the most horrible dispicable crime I have ever heard of. I pray for all of Ethan's grieving family, friends, and for LE who had to see all of this devastation first hand. I cannot imagine a mother allowing this to happen to her child. She does not deserve the title of mother. This is all I can say about this and remain a member. I am outraged at this poor child's tragedy. He did not deserve this. No child does. Ever!!!!

BeanE
05-19-2010, 07:41 PM
How you can help

Check or money order donations can be mailed to a fund to help pay Ethan Stacy's funeral expenses.

Gary Stacy-Joe Stacy Memorial Fund #4 Ethan Stacy
True Point Bank
P.O. Box 1010
Grundy, VA 24614

The account number is 0387940.

Online donations cannot be accepted.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15118572

Calliope
05-19-2010, 08:35 PM
Thanks Cher352

Eyes4crime , This looks like a change to the Timeline His Dad last talked to him May 3




http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

I wonder if Ethan said he was having fun or Joe asked him if he was having fun and Ethan said 'yes'.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 08:47 PM
I wonder if Ethan said he was having fun or Joe asked him if he was having fun and Ethan said 'yes'.

I do not know. What a house of horrors Ethan went to.

coopzoo
05-19-2010, 08:55 PM
For you, sweet Ethan...

Tiny Angels
Tiny Angels rest your wings
sit with me for awhile.
How I long to hold your hand,
And see your tender smile.
Tiny Angel, look at me,
I want this image clear....
That I will forget your precious face
Is my biggest fear.
Tiny Angel can you tell me,
Why you have gone away?
You weren't here for very long....
Why is it, you couldn't stay?
Tiny Angel shook his head,
"These things I do not know....
But I do know that you love me,
And that I love you so."

~Author Unknown

SuziQ
05-19-2010, 08:56 PM
Expert explains multiple personality disorder defense

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10838786

Calliope
05-19-2010, 09:00 PM
I do not know. What a house of horrors Ethan went to.

Wanna bet he was threatened not to say anything ?

coopzoo
05-19-2010, 09:06 PM
Ethan reminds me so much of my own son at that age, so this tragedy has shaken me to the core. I haven't been able to post until now because I was filled with such anger and hateful thoughts that I would have gotten banned. I've spent the last few days consumed with thoughts of this precious little angel and the horrors he went through. I'm always deeply saddened by the loss of a child, as well as hearing about abused and neglected children, but this is the worst of the worst. My heart is breaking for Joe and the rest of Ethan's family...those who cherished every moment with him and saw him for the true gift that he was. Godspeed, little guy. :(

Angel4u2Whisper2
05-19-2010, 10:34 PM
Emotions are so high and pain so deep they reach the core of my being. I haven't talked about it much, so many years have passed when I lost my son. I do not understand someone hurting a child on purpose. That is what brought me here. I want, I need to see justice for children. I want, I hope and I need to share comfort and love to others who have lost the most beautiful gift there is, a child.

I am angry and frustrated that someone like the Shoops have disregarded, forgotten or ignored that gift! Ethan was a gift that gave joy and kindness and laughter to the world. I read how he smart he was, how kind and funny! He was all those wonderful things and more. They stole from the future when they took him from today!

Someday I hope that change will happen for the future Ethans, God willing. Give stronger sentencing for those who hurt our children. Assist judges and courts, social services workers in understanding children can be at risk and say No more best intrests of the parents and say best intrests of our children!

Forgive me for this long post.

:rose::rose::rose:
Ethan you are so beautiful. Rest in peace.

I read you have a transformer with you as it was your favorate toy. I just wanted to say that your like a transformer too..I bet you were always an angelic boy but now you have wings spread wide.

RubyRed
05-19-2010, 10:49 PM
Emotions are so high and pain so deep they reach the core of my being. I haven't talked about it much, so many years have passed when I lost my son. I do not understand someone hurting a child on purpose. That is what brought me here. I want, I need to see justice for children. I want, I hope and I need to share comfort and love to others who have lost the most beautiful gift there is, a child.

I am angry and frustrated that someone like the Shoops have disregarded, forgotten or ignored that gift! Ethan was a gift that gave joy and kindness and laughter to the world. I read how he smart he was, how kind and funny! He was all those wonderful things and more. They stole from the future when they took him from today!

Someday I hope that change will happen for the future Ethans, God willing. Give stronger sentencing for those who hurt our children. Assist judges and courts, social services workers in understanding children can be at risk and say No more best intrests of the parents and say best intrests of our children!

Forgive me for this long post.

:rose::rose::rose:
Ethan you are so beautiful. Rest in peace.

I read you have a transformer with you as it was your favorate toy. I just wanted to say that your like a transformer too..I bet you were always an angelic boy but now you have wings spread wide.

((((( Hugs )))))

CCup
05-19-2010, 10:58 PM
I felt the need to make Ethan my avatar and if anyone else would like to use it, please feel free.

easttexas
05-19-2010, 11:06 PM
I felt the need to make Ethan my avatar and if anyone else would like to use it, please feel free.

Thank you for sharing...I wanted to do this earlier...just couldn't decide on a pic...and this was is really really good!

SuziQ
05-20-2010, 01:09 AM
Ethan's uncle: 'Why did it have to come to this?'

Crime » Mother who is in jail on suspicion of murder finds half-brother on MySpace in 2007, starts sharing life.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15121178?source=pkg

Interesting snips:
Sloop apparently met her former husband Stacy while the two were in the U.S. Army, Croft said. She was no longer enlisted in 2007.

Croft said he wasn't clear how the couple supported themselves, though at one point Sloop told him she'd lost her job when a Blockbuster store closed.
The last time Sloop contacted her brother was on May 5. She texted him that she and Nathan Sloop were going to a courthouse the next day to get married so that they could apply for food stamps, Medicaid and other public assistance, he said. Their "real" wedding in Colorado was still on, she told him.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 01:20 AM
:furious: :furious: :furious:

And I bet they were going to use poor Ethan to get all that too.

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 01:26 AM
:furious: :furious: :furious:

And I bet they were going to use poor Ethan to get all that too.

I agree! But,:waitasec: NS was employed right? SS would have gotten benefits for Ethan as a single mother. Once married she would have to claim her husbands income before appying for state assistance wouldn't she? And being that she did not have custody would she even qualify? :banghead: geez! It's late and I can't think straight... The more I think the less sense her applying for assistance makes!

I bet NS infromed her he would not be using his income to support her child...moo

RubyRed
05-20-2010, 01:32 AM
The last time Sloop contacted her brother was on May 5. She texted him that she and Nathan Sloop were going to a courthouse the next day to get married

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15121178?source=pkg

A date for the timeline.

Vegas Bride
05-20-2010, 01:35 AM
Well now neither of them will need to worry about how to get foodstamps, health care, or paying for rent. All of those needs will be provided by the citizens of Utah! We'll even pay for their lawyers.

I'm going to have to do some digging and find out what kind of reputation the Davis Cnty Jail has as far as their meals go, I hope they're really bad!

VB

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 01:38 AM
Well now neither of them will need to worry about how to get foodstamps, health care, or paying for rent. All of those needs will be provided by the citizens of Utah! We'll even pay for their lawyers.

I'm going to have to do some digging and find out what kind of reputation the Davis Cnty Jail has as far as their meals go, I hope they're really bad!

VB
BBM
I was just goimg to comment on that!
Probably not for her with diabetes and all...:furious:

eyes4crime
05-20-2010, 01:41 AM
Ethan's uncle: 'Why did it have to come to this?'

Crime » Mother who is in jail on suspicion of murder finds half-brother on MySpace in 2007, starts sharing life.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15121178?source=pkg

Interesting snips:
Sloop apparently met her former husband Stacy while the two were in the U.S. Army, Croft said. She was no longer enlisted in 2007.

Croft said he wasn't clear how the couple supported themselves, though at one point Sloop told him she'd lost her job when a Blockbuster store closed.
The last time Sloop contacted her brother was on May 5. She texted him that she and Nathan Sloop were going to a courthouse the next day to get married so that they could apply for food stamps, Medicaid and other public assistance, he said. Their "real" wedding in Colorado was still on, she told him.

Wow! That article is so interesting! Steph and Joe met in the army, wonder if she has an honorable discharge.

Moving up the wedding to apply for food stamps/Medicaid etc. Seems they had no money and needed Ethan to get more? So why would they hurt this child to death? This case is exhausting. I'm going to add to the time-line that she called her brother on the 5th. thanks SuziQ

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 01:46 AM
I wonder... did NS go with SS to Florida? I have a sneaky feeling that SS made the decision on her own and came back from Florida with Ethan and surprised NS with the news that Ethan would be living with her/them in Utah... MOO

Cubby
05-20-2010, 01:51 AM
Where were these two going to get money for a wedding if they were going to apply for foodstamps, TANF, medicaid?

I hate to say this, but these two remind me of poor folks who try to dress like they have cash, but it is so obvious they didn't.

Then to have the audacity to add all those high end items on the bridal registry? I never in my life heard of having a bridal shower for a second marriage for both the bride and groom. Tacky.... very very tacky.

I realize the above is not really related to the case, other than to add to how pathetic these two were. Total trash, total scum.

monkeymama
05-20-2010, 01:52 AM
BBM
I was just goimg to comment on that!
Probably not for her with diabetes and all...:furious:

somehow I think her diabetes and his mpd have something in common. :furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

just when I think I get a grip on my emotions, I read something else that sends me off

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 01:56 AM
somehow I think her diabetes and his mpd have something in common. :furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

just when I think I get a grip on my emotions, I read something else that sends me off

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO crud! And she will say that is why she did not seek medical attention because they had no medical insurance on Ethan and they were told by social services that they would not qualify because she did not have custody!!!!!!!!!

SuziQ
05-20-2010, 01:57 AM
I agree! But,:waitasec: NS was employed right? SS would have gotten benefits for Ethan as a single mother. Once married she would have to claim her husbands income before appying for state assistance wouldn't she? And being that she did not have custody would she even qualify? :banghead: geez! It's late and I can't think straight... The more I think the less sense her applying for assistance makes!

I bet NS infromed her he would not be using his income to support her child...moo

She says one thing and claims another. It's all assbackwards. The only explanation I can come up with is her words are lies but her actions tell the truth. I think what she told people about the sudden marriage was BS and an excuse that doesn't make sense because it's a lie.

I keep going back to the neighbor seeing SS and NS in the courtyard on the 6th. Something major happened. Ethan was dying, dead or they made the decision he needed to die. I think they kicked into CYA mode then and ran off to get married thinking they would get spousal protection.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 02:01 AM
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15121178?source=pkg


more interesting snips from the above link:


Her postings struck her brother as "too much." She mentioned Nathan Sloop's fight to see his daughter and her own inexplicable loss of twins, a pregnancy, she said, that could have taken her life.
"It was overkill," said Croft.


Thank GOD NS never saw his daughter. His absense in her life most likely saved her life..... sadly NS was allowed near Ethan or his life would have been spared too.

Croft and Sloop have the same father, who Croft described Wednesday as "a rolling stone" who had little involvement in either of their lives.

I had the feeling SS didn't have a father in her life. Just had that impression based on her behavior and her incredibly unhealthy views of a romantic relationship.

Since we now know SS didn't have her biological father in her life, we know it was her mother and step father she requested Joe agree to no contact with Ethan in their divorce agreement. I wonder why? If I have an educated guess it is because her mother and step father called her out on her bizzare behavior and she was having none of it so she cut them out of her and her sons life.

I am glad that Joe and SS's mom were able to reach out to each other in this tragic loss. That tells me what kind of man Joe is - one to put his childs needs and welfare first - a complete 180 of the monsters SS and NS.


JMO

eyes4crime
05-20-2010, 02:03 AM
Where were these two going to get money for a wedding if they were going to apply for foodstamps, TANF, medicaid?

I hate to say this, but these two remind me of poor folks who try to dress like they have cash, but it is so obvious they didn't.

Then to have the audacity to add all those high end items on the bridal registry? I never in my life heard of having a bridal shower for a second marriage for both the bride and groom. Tacky.... very very tacky.

I realize the above is not really related to the case, other than to add to how pathetic these two were. Total trash, total scum.

YUP! Medicare/Medicaid/food stamps/and any other social program they can find. I can't make sense of 'crazy' and hopefully LE will tell us the 'why' of all this horror. moo Wonder how they were going to pay for the 2nd wedding - Nate's mom? Wonder if she has money and that's what Steph was after with the pics of Nate? just some thoughts.,..you're so right Cubby - trash!!!!! :eek:

Cubby
05-20-2010, 02:06 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOO crud! And she will say that is why she did not seek medical attention because they had no medical insurance on Ethan and they were told by social services that they would not qualify because she did not have custody!!!!!!!!!

Not so! Ethan would have been carried on his fathers insurance. Part of child support includes the provision of medical insurance. (federal law requires this...) Usually the father must carry the child. If the father does not have insurance provided through his employer the state requires written notification of such in which case the father is court ordered to provide or remiburse the mother for the costs to insure the child.

There is no doubt in my mind SS had a copy of Ethans insurance card. JG would have had to contact his insurance provider to find out where his insurance carrier provided coverage in Utah. That is norm in cases such as this. Just like when one goes on vacation, if they have medical needs they would call their provider to find out where they have coverage.

Also, she HAD custody. Remember the courts ordered shared custody so in the courts eyes they had 50/50 by law, regardless of where Ethan spent the majority of his time. (there were links to media articles indicating they had shared custody).

hth

eta: There are also federal laws in place that an insurance provider can not deny coverage to a non custodial parents child based on where the child has primary residency. This is part of the federal child support laws.


etaa: IF and employer does not provide medical insurance it is not enough for the non custodial parent to say so. The information MUST come in writing from the employer. This is a standard form the state sends out when the state handles collection and disbursement of child support.
FWIW, there is also a new hire registry, which by law, companies MUST enter their new hires within 30 days of hire to this registry. This is done to 'catch' those who wish to evade child support or those who do not follow the orders of the court providing the state with any changes in employment or medical insurance. Believe me, I've dealt with it... though these measures are slow as heck, at least here in IL - who just sent me a letter indicating my sons insurance changed in 2008. doy! I knew that- but had to handle things outside the courts since they are so darn slow!

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 02:17 AM
She says one thing and claims another. It's all assbackwards. The only explanation I can come up with is her words are lies but her actions tell the truth. I think what she told people about the sudden marriage was BS and an excuse that doesn't make sense because it's a lie.

I keep going back to the neighbor seeing SS and NS in the courtyard on the 6th. Something major happened. Ethan was dying, dead or they made the decision he needed to die. I think they kicked into CYA mode then and ran off to get married thinking they would get spousal protection.

BBM-
MOO but I think that is the case.
Caution! some may prefer not to read this!
If you re read SS probable cause statement, about Ethan's "symptoms" it reads more like she is reporting the symptoms umm well... I'm not gonna get graphic but if you placed it on a decomp timeline it fits almost perfectly :(
from May 5 to May 8

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 02:19 AM
Not so! Ethan would have been carried on his fathers insurance. Part of child support includes the provision of medical insurance. (federal law requires this...) Usually the father must carry the child. If the father does not have insurance provided through his employer the state requires written notification of such in which case the father is court ordered to provide or remiburse the mother for the costs to insure the child.

There is no doubt in my mind SS had a copy of Ethans insurance card. JG would have had to contact his insurance provider to find out where his insurance carrier provided coverage in Utah. That is norm in cases such as this. Just like when one goes on vacation, if they have medical needs they would call their provider to find out where they have coverage.

Also, she HAD custody. Remember the courts ordered shared custody so in the courts eyes they had 50/50 by law, regardless of where Ethan spent the majority of his time. (there were links to media articles indicating they had shared custody).

hth

eta: There are also federal laws in place that an insurance provider can not deny coverage to a non custodial parents child based on where the child has primary residency. This is part of the federal child support laws.

BBM I thought his father had been unemployed for some time... so if Ethan had medical ins then he would not qualify for medicaid anyway. So yup BS story on SS part. Not a big surprise!

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:23 AM
I agree! But,:waitasec: NS was employed right? SS would have gotten benefits for Ethan as a single mother. Once married she would have to claim her husbands income before appying for state assistance wouldn't she? And being that she did not have custody would she even qualify? :banghead: geez! It's late and I can't think straight... The more I think the less sense her applying for assistance makes!

I bet NS infromed her he would not be using his income to support her child...moo

The more I think about it, the more I think she was lying to her brother too. IMO, they married thinking they'd have some sort of spousal privilege if arrested for abuse and murder.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 02:24 AM
BBM I thought his father had been unemployed for some time... so if Ethan had medical ins then he would not qualify for medicaid anyway. So yup BS story on SS part. Not a big surprise!


I thought JG was on medical leave, not unemployed. I was under the impression he was getting whatever benefits as a result of being injured on the job. ETA: I thought he was on workmans comp or something like that.....


Imo, everything that comes from SS's mouth is BS. I think the crap that flew from her and NS's lips about their word was just a bunch of baloney to manipulate others into buying their bs.

JMO

monkeymama
05-20-2010, 02:26 AM
I do not want to post a picture of that pos right now, but I was looking back through and saw the pic of NS 'crying'....For those who want, look at this site. IMO, he looks like he's smiling, but trying to cover it up by crying. There is nothing happening in his forehead area-it is completely smooth. Maybe I've watched Lie to me too much, but that is a sign of lying. moo

http://www.examiner.com/x-40986-Salt-Lake-City-Page-One-Examiner~y2010m5d14-Nathan-and-Stephanie-Sloop-make-first-court-appearance-Friday-no-formal-charges-filed

monkeymama
05-20-2010, 02:27 AM
BBM-
MOO but I think that is the case.
Caution! some may prefer not to read this!
If you re read SS probable cause statement, about Ethan's "symptoms" it reads more like she is reporting the symptoms umm well... I'm not gonna get graphic but if you placed it on a decomp timeline it fits almost perfectly :(
from May 5 to May 8

ITA. It is disturbing to say the least.

moo

Cubby
05-20-2010, 02:31 AM
I do not want to post a picture of that pos right now, but I was looking back through and saw the pic of NS 'crying'....For those who want, look at this site. IMO, he looks like he's smiling, but trying to cover it up by crying. There is nothing happening in his forehead area-it is completely smooth. Maybe I've watched Lie to me too much, but that is a sign of lying. moo

http://www.examiner.com/x-40986-Salt-Lake-City-Page-One-Examiner~y2010m5d14-Nathan-and-Stephanie-Sloop-make-first-court-appearance-Friday-no-formal-charges-filed

That POS is crying because the entire world knows what kind of person he is. A weak man who beat, tortured and murdered a 4 yr old. He's crying because he can no longer hide who he really is..... Believe me if these two never got caught and were able to pull the rug over LE's eyes with the story they concocted regarding Ethans disappearance they would never have shed a tear for him. heck, they would have never even so much as had an incling of a thought of sadness over what they did to him.

Yep the tears from NS are for himself only.

JMO

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:31 AM
BBM
I was just goimg to comment on that!
Probably not for her with diabetes and all...:furious:

Diabetes. My ---

She was in the army, right? Diabetics are not accepted as recruits. High stress levels will send their sugars out of whack, you can't risk having a soldier either fall out from low sugar or going into a coma or ketoacidosis if high, the high risk for infections in general and foot problems specifically, conditions where food and immediate medical attention may not be readily available.... I could go on, but you get the drift. And this would apply to women as well as men. My daughter was in the Army; she received the exact same training as the men (amazingly intense both physically and mentally), and although they *claim* women aren't on the front lines, they are. Her job put her right up there in the thick of it, not to mention nurses and such are at or close to the front. IMO, this is just more proof SS is a liar and manipulator.

DairyGirl
05-20-2010, 02:32 AM
BBM
I was just goimg to comment on that!
Probably not for her with diabetes and all...:furious:

Not really relevent but I don't think she has diabetes. I think she probably had some kind of drug reaction instead of a "blood sugar" problem. She probably wouldn't want to admit that NS saved her life from a drug overdose. MOO

DairyGirl
05-20-2010, 02:34 AM
OOOOOOOOOOOOOO crud! And she will say that is why she did not seek medical attention because they had no medical insurance on Ethan and they were told by social services that they would not qualify because she did not have custody!!!!!!!!!

I don't think that would fly. Joe probably had insurance from him.

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 02:35 AM
Diabetes. My. ---.

She was in the army, right? Diabetics are not accepted as recruits. High stress levels will send their sugars out of whack, you can't risk having a soldier either fall out from low sugar or going into a coma or ketoacidosis if high, the high risk for infections in general and foot problems specifically, conditions where food and immediate medical attention may not be readily available.... I could go on, but you get the drift. Just more proof she's a liar and manipulator.

Agreed! but what happens if one develops it after enlisting? Are they honorably d/c? or if it is pregnancy induced?
BUT back to your point everything she said was probably a lie, diabetes,twins etc etc...

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:36 AM
Wow! That article is so interesting! Steph and Joe met in the army, wonder if she has an honorable discharge.

Moving up the wedding to apply for food stamps/Medicaid etc. Seems they had no money and needed Ethan to get more? So why would they hurt this child to death? This case is exhausting. I'm going to add to the time-line that she called her brother on the 5th. thanks SuziQ

I think she was lying to her brother. IMO, probably trying to get money out of him. I also think that she told him this figuring their plan to hide and disfigure Ethan's body would be successful.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 02:39 AM
Diabetes. My. ---.

She was in the army, right? Diabetics are not accepted as recruits. High stress levels will send their sugars out of whack, you can't risk having a soldier either fall out from low sugar or going into a coma or ketoacidosis if high, the high risk for infections in general and foot problems specifically, conditions where food and immediate medical attention may not be readily available.... I could go on, but you get the drift. And this would apply to women as well as men. My daughter was in the Army; she received the exact same training as the men (amazingly intense both physically and mentally), and although they *claim* women aren't on the front lines, they are. Her job put her right up there in the thick of it, not to mention nurses and such are at or close to the front. IMO, this is just more proof SS is a liar and manipulator.


Unless her diabeties was dx'd after she was out of the army, or the reason she was discharged from the army.

jmo

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 02:45 AM
Unless her diabeties was dx'd after she was out of the army, or the reason she was discharged from the army.

jmo

very true!
my point was IF she has diabetes and that is a big IF while in jail/prison whatever ya call it they would have to provide her with balanced meals in a timely fashion and based on that diagnosis alone she might have better meal options than someone without diabetes?
wouldn't they?

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:46 AM
Agreed! but what happens if one develops it after enlisting? Are they honorably d/c? or if it is pregnancy induced?
BUT back to your point everything she said was probably a lie, diabetes,twins etc etc...

I have a friend who became pregnant after serving for a while; they sent her stateside and on a desk job until after the baby was born. She didn't have gestational diabetes, but since that often goes away after birth, it could be they monitor the mother until they're sure she'll not develop full-blown diabetes. All parents are required to give the military proof they have made arrangements for their children to be cared for should they be deployed (as to Iraq, for example).

As far as a discharge? I know from what my daughter's told me they do give honorable medical discharges, in fact she got one after wrecking both knees and legs in PT (tore the hell out of her knees and had stress fractures in both legs). The docs told her she could not stand or walk for more than a certain number of hours a day and that disqualified her even though her job didn't entail being on her feet all that much. There were also people she knew discharged for depression and other psych issues. I would guess that diabetics get the same consideration. Now a 50 year old desk jockey who's not likely to be out on the field might be allowed to stay in, but I don't know.

Cher352
05-20-2010, 02:50 AM
I wonder... did NS go with SS to Florida? I have a sneaky feeling that SS made the decision on her own and came back from Florida with Ethan and surprised NS with the news that Ethan would be living with her/them in Utah... MOO

I read in an article today that Joe meet NS at the airport in FL when he dropped off Ethan.

Let me go see if I can find the link.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:51 AM
very true!
my point was IF she has diabetes and that is a big IF while in jail/prison whatever ya call it they would have to provide her with balanced meals in a timely fashion and based on that diagnosis alone she might have better meal options than someone without diabetes?
wouldn't they?

Oh I don't know if it would be better. A carb is a carb. All they'd have to do is make sure her carb intake was consistent. Couple of slices of bread, some cheese, a hunk of brocolli and there ya go.

Another thing to consider. Ethan was born on base. Her brother says she was out by '07 at least (that isn't really clear). I guess it's possible she developed some gestational diabetes and was let go if it didn't resolve after birth. The timeline of his birth and when the brother says she (may) have been discharged fits. But all that said, I'll believe she is a diabetic when I hear the State, LE or the prosecutor say so.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:53 AM
I read in an article today that Joe meet NS at the airport in FL when he dropped off Ethan.

Let me go see if I can find the link.

I believe it was when he went to Utah to pick up a vehicle she'd taken there.

Cher352
05-20-2010, 02:55 AM
I wonder... did NS go with SS to Florida? I have a sneaky feeling that SS made the decision on her own and came back from Florida with Ethan and surprised NS with the news that Ethan would be living with her/them in Utah... MOO

I read in an article today that Joe meet NS at the airport in FL when he dropped off Ethan.

Let me go see if I can find the link.

I found it, from the article:

Stacy also told ABC4’s Maxwell that he briefly met Nathan Sloop, Ethan’s new step-father and current suspect in Ethan’s death, at the airport when Stacy dropped Ethan off, and said that Nathan seemed like, “a nice guy.”

He pointed out that Nathan Sloop has a five year-old daughter of his own and that he never thought Sloop capable of anything like this.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:57 AM
Where were these two going to get money for a wedding if they were going to apply for foodstamps, TANF, medicaid?

I hate to say this, but these two remind me of poor folks who try to dress like they have cash, but it is so obvious they didn't.

Then to have the audacity to add all those high end items on the bridal registry? I never in my life heard of having a bridal shower for a second marriage for both the bride and groom. Tacky.... very very tacky.

I realize the above is not really related to the case, other than to add to how pathetic these two were. Total trash, total scum.

Asking for high-end items to sell for $$$. IMO of course.

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 02:57 AM
I read in an article today that Joe meet NS at the airport in FL when he dropped off Ethan.

Let me go see if I can find the link.
BBM ahh ha! sooo they never spent a day apart... figures he wouldn't allow her to go alone.
ETA: or not if Joe met him in Utah! point is they met I guess.
Oh I don't know if it would be better. A carb is a carb. All they'd have to do is make sure her carb intake was consistent. Couple of slices of bread, some cheese, a hunk of brocolli and there ya go.

Another thing to consider. Ethan was born on base. Her brother says she was out by '07 at least (that isn't really clear). I guess it's possible she developed some gestational diabetes and was let go if it didn't resolve after birth. The timeline of his birth and when the brother says she (may) have been discharged fits. But all that said, I'll believe she is a diabetic when I hear the State, LE or the prosecutor say so.
BBM which is unlikely with hippa and all but I would imagine her friends would be speaking up if she claimed to have diabetes on her facebook/wedding page and didn't... maybe we will hear something....

Cher352
05-20-2010, 02:59 AM
Asking for high-end items to sell for $$$. IMO of course.

Now that makes sense (for them).

Calliope
05-20-2010, 02:59 AM
http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15121178?source=pkg


more interesting snips from the above link:



Thank god ns never saw his daughter. His absense in her life most likely saved her life..... Sadly ns was allowed near ethan or his life would have been spared too.



I had the feeling ss didn't have a father in her life. Just had that impression based on her behavior and her incredibly unhealthy views of a romantic relationship.

Since we now know ss didn't have her biological father in her life, we know it was her mother and step father she requested joe agree to no contact with ethan in their divorce agreement. I wonder why? If i have an educated guess it is because her mother and step father called her out on her bizzare behavior and she was having none of it so she cut them out of her and her sons life.

I am glad that joe and ss's mom were able to reach out to each other in this tragic loss. that tells me what kind of man joe is - one to put his childs needs and welfare first - a complete 180 of the monsters ss and ns.


Jmo
amen.

Cher352
05-20-2010, 03:09 AM
Ethan's uncle: 'Why did it have to come to this?'

Crime » Mother who is in jail on suspicion of murder finds half-brother on MySpace in 2007, starts sharing life.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15121178?source=pkg

Interesting snips:
Sloop apparently met her former husband Stacy while the two were in the U.S. Army, Croft said. She was no longer enlisted in 2007.

Croft said he wasn't clear how the couple supported themselves, though at one point Sloop told him she'd lost her job when a Blockbuster store closed.
The last time Sloop contacted her brother was on May 5. She texted him that she and Nathan Sloop were going to a courthouse the next day to get married so that they could apply for food stamps, Medicaid and other public assistance, he said. Their "real" wedding in Colorado was still on, she told him.

And towards the end;

Croft says he hasn't decided whether he will ever speak again to his sister. "I don't know how I could justify that with my own children," he said.


Kind of sorry for this guy, bet he wishes he never contacted her in the first place.

SuziQ
05-20-2010, 03:10 AM
Asking for high-end items to sell for $$$. IMO of course.

Which reminds me. Did you catch all the casserole dishes and such they had listed? The first thing I thought was WTH, are they going to sell the extras?

Calliope
05-20-2010, 03:15 AM
BBm ahh ha! sooo they never spent a day apart... figures he wouldn't allow her to go alone.


BBM which is unlikely with hippa and all but I would imagine her friends would be speaking up if she claimed to have diabetes on her facebook/wedding page and didn't... maybe we will hear something....

Does HIPAA apply to LE, jails, prisons, etc? They aren't mentioned here:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/index.html

It addresses disclosure to, but not from LE.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/faq/disclosures_for_law_enforcement_purposes/505.html


I wonder if there are laws specific to jails and correctional facilities? I'll ask our compliance officer, but she may not know the answer to this.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 03:15 AM
And towards the end;
Croft says he hasn't decided whether he will ever speak again to his sister. "I don't know how I could justify that with my own children," he said.
Kind of sorry for this guy, bet he wishes he never contacted her in the first place.


He didn't contact her, she contacted him according to the article.
I don't blame him for trying to get to know his half sister. Who wouldn't?
I also don't blame him for taking the time to sort in his mind how and if he wishes to have any further contact with her. If I were in his shoes, it would take me some time to decide whether or not it was even worth it to verbally share my utter disgust for her behavior. Especially with what he knows about her. Perhaps he believes it wouldn't be worth wasting his breath speaking to her based on what he knows of her.

What surprises me is we haven't heard one word from SS's mother regarding her daughters dispicable behavior. I hope in time she stands up and speaks out for her precious grandson who didn't deserve to die at the hands of these two monsters.

JMO

Calliope
05-20-2010, 03:18 AM
I found it, from the article:

Stacy also told ABC4’s Maxwell that he briefly met Nathan Sloop, Ethan’s new step-father and current suspect in Ethan’s death, at the airport when Stacy dropped Ethan off, and said that Nathan seemed like, “a nice guy.”

He pointed out that Nathan Sloop has a five year-old daughter of his own and that he never thought Sloop capable of anything like this.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/ABC-4-Exclusive-Joe-Stacy-speaks-about-Ethans/rYjvxDh4x0qY4JB-7gBVlw.cspx

I swear that's not what was reported before. It said he'd only met him once and that was when he went to Utah to get the car. I'm wondering if he told the reporter he met NS "at the airport" and the reporter filled in the blanks on his own?

Cubby
05-20-2010, 03:18 AM
Does HIPAA apply to LE, jails, prisons, etc? They aren't mentioned here:

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/index.html

It addresses disclosure to, but not from LE.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/faq/disclosures_for_law_enforcement_purposes/505.html


I wonder if there are laws specific to jails and correctional facilities? I'll ask our compliance officer, but she may not know the answer to this.


I would guess, whatever is available to the public via the FOIA or whatever LE wishes to share would not be protected by HIPAA. But in the mean time, whatever LE wishes not to share due to the open investigation would apply regarding these two monsters medical info.

JMO

monkeymama
05-20-2010, 03:23 AM
I still want to know what these monsters did for work. Was NS still doing insurance? Or were they selling something....

Calliope
05-20-2010, 03:26 AM
Joe Stacy had met the man face-to-face only once, for about 30 minutes when Stacy flew to Utah to pick up a vehicle from his ex-wife.

http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/father_of_ethan_stacy_i_didnt_have_any_choice/46167/

Cubby
05-20-2010, 03:28 AM
I still want to know what these monsters did for work. Was NS still doing insurance? Or were they selling something....


Um, my guess is whatever these two did for income was not legal. Between her being a 'dancer' in Vegas, and his arrests for illegal drug mfg - fill in the blanks.

JMO

ETA: Keep in mind, prostitution is legal in Vegas isn't it?

JMO

DairyGirl
05-20-2010, 03:32 AM
And towards the end;

Croft says he hasn't decided whether he will ever speak again to his sister. "I don't know how I could justify that with my own children," he said.


Kind of sorry for this guy, bet he wishes he never contacted her in the first place.

Kind of a no brainer to me. Also in the story he talks about how she could stand by while NS did that to Ethan. I don't believe she just stood by but participated as well. Maybe he doesn't want to believe that.

monkeymama
05-20-2010, 03:33 AM
Um, my guess is whatever these two did for income was not legal. Between her being a 'dancer' in Vegas, and his arrests for illegal drug mfg - fill in the blanks.

JMO

ETA: Keep in mind, prostitution is legal in Vegas isn't it?

JMO

bbm. It is legal in Nevada, but NOT in Vegas or Reno.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada

However, yes, I was leaning more towards the drug aspect too. moo

Cher352
05-20-2010, 03:34 AM
I swear that's not what was reported before. It said he'd only met him once and that was when he went to Utah to get the car. I'm wondering if he told the reporter he met NS "at the airport" and the reporter filled in the blanks on his own?

http://www2.tricities.com/tri/news/local/article/father_of_ethan_stacy_i_didnt_have_any_choice/46167/

Looks like we got two different stories alright.:waitasec:

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 03:37 AM
I would guess, whatever is available to the public via the FOIA or whatever LE wishes to share would not be protected by HIPAA. But in the mean time, whatever LE wishes not to share due to the open investigation would apply regarding these two monsters medical info.

JMO

I looked into this earlier today re NS and an MPD diagnosis. Best I could tell physicians are required to give LE patients diagnosis and medications prescribed. Psychiatrists do not have to release their office notes (but they must disclose pertinent information as it relates to all people that would come into contact with the prisoner, staff and other inmates.) I believe all other MD's are required to release their office notes. I don't think LE is allowed to comment on psychiatric issues but I will need to do some more digging to find out what if anything they can say regarding general medical issues.
I know we have heard about terminal cancers and the like so obviously they are allowed to release certain medical information.

I found that it was worded differently in different states and my head started to swim!
This is MOO and not 100% correct at this time...

Calliope
05-20-2010, 03:41 AM
I looked into this earlier today re NS and an MPD diagnosis. Best I could tell physicians are required to give LE patients diagnosis and medications prescribed. Psychiatrists do not have to release their office notes (but they must disclose pertinent information as it relates to all people that would come into contact with the prisoner, staff and other inmates.) I believe all other MD's are required to release their office notes. I don't think LE is allowed to comment on psychiatric issues but I will need to do some more digging to find out what if anything they can say regarding general medical issues.
I know we have heard about terminal cancers and the like so obviously they are allowed to release certain medical information.

I found that it was worded differently in different states and my head started to swim!
This is MOO and not 100% correct at this time...

The second link in my post above regarding HIPAA kinda sorta tells what healthcare providers and such are required to give LE and under what circumstances. It's all enough to make your head swim. Me? I say nothin' to nobody. lol

gngr~snap
05-20-2010, 03:45 AM
Yup yup yup!! NO SHOP TALK!

ETA my bad wrong link!!
While HIPAA may apply to inmates' medical records, it is important to note that the privacy regulations expressly do not cover the release of protected health information about individuals on pretrial release, probation or parole. However, correctional institutions must protect the privacy of medical records for all other inmates. Additionally, once inmates are released, they will have the same privacy rights that apply to all other individuals under the privacy regulations and the specific exceptions discussed below will no longer apply to inmates upon their release. Consequently, correctional institutions may need to treat the health care information of currently incarcerated inmates differently than the health care information of released inmates.

http://www.allbusiness.com/public-administration/justice-public-order/1168370-1.html

Calliope
05-20-2010, 03:46 AM
Looks like we got two different stories alright.:waitasec:

Joe spoke today about wanting to focus on his son and not those two POSs. I suspect the first article was accurate, and he just wasn't clear with the second, and the reporter assumed he meant the airport in FL. That second interview happened at the family night the day before he buried his son.

Which reminds me... media needs to back off from him. Let him mourn in private for God's sake.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 03:50 AM
BTW, I almost forgot....

A link on facebook led me to this myspace page set up in Ethan's memory by "teenee", who obviously adored Ethan with all her heart.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=535116820

Both albums are filled with the most heartwarming photos. It's obvious that little boy was adored and cherished. I love the series of webcam shots.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 04:08 AM
These are great.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 04:43 AM
It was posted this was played at his funeral.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqaBof47pmY


Godspeed, little Ethan.

Angel4u2Whisper2
05-20-2010, 08:04 AM
I still want to know what these monsters did for work. Was NS still doing insurance? Or were they selling something....

Ok I have two ideas. One if NS was doing insurance and teaching people how to work through it (the "test") despite what kind of insurance it was could he have talked SS into getting life insurance on Ethan?
Maybe they figured eventually he would be declared legally dead and they could "collect" on it, both of them if they were married and the benificary?

Secondly, does anyone know for a fact that SS was in the military at all? Something tells me that a (IMO) Narrsistic would have a hard time being told what to do and have to do the tasks asked of her upon demand during boot camp.


Please excuse my spelling errors in advance. Thank you.

Jenny60123
05-20-2010, 08:29 AM
I agree! But,:waitasec: NS was employed right? SS would have gotten benefits for Ethan as a single mother. Once married she would have to claim her husbands income before appying for state assistance wouldn't she? And being that she did not have custody would she even qualify? :banghead: geez! It's late and I can't think straight... The more I think the less sense her applying for assistance makes!

I bet NS infromed her he would not be using his income to support her child...moo

I think it's pretty likely that they got married in such a rush because they had abused Ethan within an inch of his life and knew they were in deep deep trouble. I'm guessing they believe that if married they cannot be made to testify against one another.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 08:49 AM
http://www.standard.net/topics/ethan-stacy/2010/05/19/ethans-law-may-be-works-keep-tragedy-recurring


Ethan's Law may be in the works to keep tragedy from recurring

By Greg Jordan (http://www.standard.net/authors/greg-jordan) (Bluefield (Va.) Daily Telegraph)


Last Edit: May 19 2010 - 11:28pm




GRUNDY, Va. -- As mourners left the funeral of Ethan Stacy, who died after days of abuse, some were thinking about how they could prevent such a tragedy from happening again. One possibly is Ethan's Law.
Four-year-old Ethan died May 9 in Layton while on a summertime visit to his mother, Stephanie Sloop, 27. A Florida judge made the visits part of her divorce settlement with Ethan's biological father, Joe G. Stacy, of Richlands, Va.
Stephanie Sloop and her current husband, Nathan Sloop, 31, are being held without bond in Davis County Jail in the boy's death. They are facing the possibility of being charged with aggravated murder, which could carry the death penalty or life imprisonment.
In divorce papers, Joe Stacy said Ethan's mother was unstable and had abandoned their son. Judge Maura T. Smith, who officiated over the case in Orlando (Fla.) Circuit Court, later said that she had not read the father's statement and simply approved the final divorce and custody agreement.
Some people who knew Ethan now want to create a federal law that would apply due process if a parent who abandoned his or her child wants to regain custody and have visitation rights.


full article at link.

http://www.standard.net/topics/ethan-stacy/2010/05/19/ethans-law-may-be-works-keep-tragedy-recurring

The meaning behind this is great, but what I know of family court laws it is unlikely something like this, as suggested in the article would pass. Based on my own experience, in IL, for a parent to claim abandonment they must prove the other parent had access to and no attempt at contact in any form must exceed two years. Even then, it is difficult to prove because the non custodial parent could easily say they were denied access. Also, it is my understanding if a parent is even paying child support - and has no contact with the child - that is still grounds for 'contact' which negates the abandonment issue.

JMO

ThePhantom
05-20-2010, 10:23 AM
"Judge Maura T. Smith, who officiated over the case in Orlando (Fla.) Circuit Court, later said that she had not read the father's statement and simply approved the final divorce and custody agreement"

This judge needs to resign, if she hasn't already, for gross negligence in her position as a family court judge. Because it's obvious she doesn't care enough about her responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of children.

Vegas Bride
05-20-2010, 10:26 AM
very true!
my point was IF she has diabetes and that is a big IF while in jail/prison whatever ya call it they would have to provide her with balanced meals in a timely fashion and based on that diagnosis alone she might have better meal options than someone without diabetes?
wouldn't they?

I would not say the meals would be better other than decreasing the sugar content. Instead of regular jello they could have the diet jello, smaller serving of starch etc.

I'm wondering if there's any way to find out if she's buying anything through the commissary (food items) to see if she's buying sugary foods.
Of course someone would have to put money in her account for her to do that, since I've read they have had family visit someone might have done that. I hope we're not going to hear about some people sending her money like what's happened with Casey A.

VB

Cubby
05-20-2010, 10:31 AM
"Judge Maura T. Smith, who officiated over the case in Orlando (Fla.) Circuit Court, later said that she had not read the father's statement and simply approved the final divorce and custody agreement"

This judge needs to resign, if she hasn't already, for gross negligence in her position as a family court judge. Because it's obvious she doesn't care enough about her responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of children.


First, she did not read the fathers statement, because Ethans father and mother came to an agreement regarding the divorce, custody and visitation through the use of a mediator. The judge heard the agreement between Joe and Stephanie. Why should the judge be penalized or condemned for approving an agreement made between the divorcing couple?

ThePhantom
05-20-2010, 10:40 AM
I just feel that, *someone,* has got to go the extra mile and look after the welfare of the kids -- time and again I see divorcing couples and the main focus always seems to be on what is amenable to the parents -- which -- in an ideal world, is great -- but there are too many parents who do not put as their priority the well being of their children. And if a relative can't/won't do it, and a neighbor/friend can't/won't do it, nor a teacher, pastor, the school system -- it seems like the judge is the last stop on the train to either a safe life or a live of hell. Is there, or can there, be any accountability in any of this? Is it that difficult to evaluate and assess the behavior and motivations of these kinds of individual, such that a determination can be made as to how life will be for a child? It feels like kids like Ethan just slip through the cracks of society's infrastructure -- because they are so vulnerable -- same as the many of the elderly who have no one to really advocate for them.

eyes4crime
05-20-2010, 11:16 AM
Ok I have two ideas. One if NS was doing insurance and teaching people how to work through it (the "test") despite what kind of insurance it was could he have talked SS into getting life insurance on Ethan?
Maybe they figured eventually he would be declared legally dead and they could "collect" on it, both of them if they were married and the benificary?

Secondly, does anyone know for a fact that SS was in the military at all? Something tells me that a (IMO) Narrsistic would have a hard time being told what to do and have to do the tasks asked of her upon demand during boot camp.


Please excuse my spelling errors in advance. Thank you.

BBM (bolded by me)
Excellent question about the insurance for Ethan! Sure sounds to me like something they would do. Maybe Steph knew of a policy Joe, Ethan's father, had out on Ethan. Having joint custody, wouldn't they split the money. moo

Quiche
05-20-2010, 11:26 AM
:twocents:

My guess is that SS was dehydrated (from extensive drug use) when NS "saved her life."

I'll eat my hat if meth wasn't involved in this crime-- it makes people exactly this kind of crazy. mo

eyes4crime
05-20-2010, 11:29 AM
:twocents:

My guess is that SS was dehydrated (from extensive drug use) when NS "saved her life."

I'll eat my hat if meth wasn't involved in this crime-- it makes people exactly this kind of crazy. mo

Agree - agree - agree! Exactly this kind of crazy! And that's why it's crazy making to try and make sense of 'crazy'. moo

Cubby
05-20-2010, 11:45 AM
I just feel that, *someone,* has got to go the extra mile and look after the welfare of the kids -- time and again I see divorcing couples and the main focus always seems to be on what is amenable to the parents -- which -- in an ideal world, is great -- but there are too many parents who do not put as their priority the well being of their children. And if a relative can't/won't do it, and a neighbor/friend can't/won't do it, nor a teacher, pastor, the school system -- it seems like the judge is the last stop on the train to either a safe life or a live of hell. Is there, or can there, be any accountability in any of this? Is it that difficult to evaluate and assess the behavior and motivations of these kinds of individual, such that a determination can be made as to how life will be for a child? It feels like kids like Ethan just slip through the cracks of society's infrastructure -- because they are so vulnerable -- same as the many of the elderly who have no one to really advocate for them.

But, as parents we have the right to make decisions for our children. Disallowing two parents to reach an agreement prior to seeing a judge would be a violation of our rights.

I realize people want to reach out, place blame, find a reason no one interceded for this child prior to his egg donor and her monstrous husband murdering this child, but the reality of it is in this case if no one, including Ethans father had any forsight this would happen how would a judge?

I have no doubt if Joe had an incling SS and NS were a danger to Ethan he would have NEVER come to an agreement via mediation. However, it is his right by law to be allowed the opportunity to do so - without asking a judge take his right as a parent to make decisions for his child.

The family court judge who approved the agreement Joe and Stephanie made regarding their divorce is NOT to blame for Ethans murder. Only Stephanie and Nathan are to blame.

JMO

ET: Not every parent divorcing is unable to come to an agreement and put their children first. LOTS and lots of parents can and do. Unfortunately we don't often hear succesful coparenting stories. They aren't newsworthy..... but they do happen.

AmandaReckonwith
05-20-2010, 11:58 AM
Case archive album is updated:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Ethan%20Stacy/

Catters
05-20-2010, 12:18 PM
I imagine they are already talking about what they'd to NS and SS if given the chance!:croc:

that makes me happy... I honestly hope they get exactly what is coming to them... :furious:

cc81
05-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Not so! Ethan would have been carried on his fathers insurance. Part of child support includes the provision of medical insurance. (federal law requires this...) Usually the father must carry the child. If the father does not have insurance provided through his employer the state requires written notification of such in which case the father is court ordered to provide or remiburse the mother for the costs to insure the child.

There is no doubt in my mind SS had a copy of Ethans insurance card. JG would have had to contact his insurance provider to find out where his insurance carrier provided coverage in Utah. That is norm in cases such as this. Just like when one goes on vacation, if they have medical needs they would call their provider to find out where they have coverage.

Also, she HAD custody. Remember the courts ordered shared custody so in the courts eyes they had 50/50 by law, regardless of where Ethan spent the majority of his time. (there were links to media articles indicating they had shared custody).

hth

eta: There are also federal laws in place that an insurance provider can not deny coverage to a non custodial parents child based on where the child has primary residency. This is part of the federal child support laws.


etaa: IF and employer does not provide medical insurance it is not enough for the non custodial parent to say so. The information MUST come in writing from the employer. This is a standard form the state sends out when the state handles collection and disbursement of child support.
FWIW, there is also a new hire registry, which by law, companies MUST enter their new hires within 30 days of hire to this registry. This is done to 'catch' those who wish to evade child support or those who do not follow the orders of the court providing the state with any changes in employment or medical insurance. Believe me, I've dealt with it... though these measures are slow as heck, at least here in IL - who just sent me a letter indicating my sons insurance changed in 2008. doy! I knew that- but had to handle things outside the courts since they are so darn slow!


Sorry Cubby, I have to respectfully disagree. My case has been based out of NC for the last 10 years. Ex being the custodial and I being the non-custodial. Never once have I been ordered or asked to provide insurance for my child and technically neither has my ex. I have also never been asked or ordered to pay any part of her medical expenses (never made any sense to me!?) My ex did have state medical coverage for her up until she turned 5 (he jumps from job to job with no coverage for her) My husband and I can provide health, dental and vision coverage for her and all my ex has to do is provide simple paperwork that he should have on hand.. we've told him this for years.. yet here she still sits, age 11, with no insurance coverage. We have been in front of the judge twice for provisions to our original order. Federal law or not, judges do not always order it.

Now in VA, my dad had to pay portions of the insurance my mom had on my brother and I. He also, when my stepmother left him, had to pay portions of my younger siblings coverage.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 12:53 PM
Sorry Cubby, I have to respectfully disagree. My case has been based out of NC for the last 10 years. Ex being the custodial and I being the non-custodial. Never once have I been ordered or asked to provide insurance for my child and technically neither has my ex. I have also never been asked or ordered to pay any part of her medical expenses (never made any sense to me!?) My ex did have state medical coverage for her up until she turned 5 (he jumps from job to job with no coverage for her) My husband and I can provide health, dental and vision coverage for her and all my ex has to do is provide simple paperwork that he should have on hand.. we've told him this for years.. yet here she still sits, age 11, with no insurance coverage. We have been in front of the judge twice for provisions to our original order. Federal law or not, judges do not always order it.

Now in VA, my dad had to pay portions of the insurance my mom had on my brother and I. He also, when my stepmother left him, had to pay portions of my younger siblings coverage.

I should have been more clear. What I posted applies to child support enforced through the state via an IV-D agency. Child support issues handled outside state agencies don't follow the same procedures. My case is through the state.

ETA: We don't know if child support for Ethans case was handled through the state or not....

Calliope
05-20-2010, 01:05 PM
I should have been more clear. What I posted applies to child support enforced through the state via an IV-D agency. Child support issues handled outside state agencies don't follow the same procedures. My case is through the state.

ETA: We don't know if child support for Ethans case was handled through the state or not....

Somehow I doubt they were thinking this far ahead, but if accepted for TANF or other state welfare programs, the State will take steps to assure that child support is collected.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 01:09 PM
Somehow I doubt they were thinking this far ahead, but if accepted for TANF or other state welfare programs, the State will take steps to assure that child support is collected.

Child support enforcement via the state is available to everyone regardless of income and regardless if they are on TANF or other state welfare programs. It is only -mandatory- when one is on TANF or other state welfare programs.

It may or may not have been part of their divorce agreement. We don't know...

Calliope
05-20-2010, 01:20 PM
Child support enforcement via the state is available to everyone regardless of income and regardless if they are on TANF or other state welfare programs. It is only -mandatory- when one is on TANF or other state welfare programs.

It may or may not have been part of their divorce agreement. We don't know...

Thanks. I know from experience of some close to me that sometimes the state doesn't go after them with quite the same zeal as they do when it involves someone on welfare. However the state of Florida pursued my ex years after the original order, long after I'd given up hope of ever seeing a single penny from him (he never paid at all, ever). Imagine my surprise (and his too) when they caught up with him in Michigan and began garnisheeing his wages for what was owed me plus interest. These checks started coming to me when my daughter was 28, I'm sure he believed he was in the clear once she reached 18. Because of the interest charged, the total he ended up paying was almost 3 times what it would have been if he'd only kept up with the payments in the first place.

/OT

suzyq211
05-20-2010, 02:18 PM
BTW, I almost forgot....

A link on facebook led me to this myspace page set up in Ethan's memory by "teenee", who obviously adored Ethan with all her heart.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=535116820

Both albums are filled with the most heartwarming photos. It's obvious that little boy was adored and cherished. I love the series of webcam shots.

Wow...those pictures made me cry again. He was so loved...

suzyq211
05-20-2010, 02:22 PM
where were these two going to get money for a wedding if they were going to apply for foodstamps, tanf, medicaid?

I hate to say this, but these two remind me of poor folks who try to dress like they have cash, but it is so obvious they didn't.

Then to have the audacity to add all those high end items on the bridal registry? I never in my life heard of having a bridal shower for a second marriage for both the bride and groom. Tacky.... Very very tacky.

I realize the above is not really related to the case, other than to add to how pathetic these two were. Total trash, total scum.

agree!!!!! So much!!!!

Paintr
05-20-2010, 03:26 PM
http://www.examiner.com/x-40986-Salt-Lake-City-Page-One-Examiner~y2010m5d20-Ethan-Stacys-friends-and-family-ask-congressional-leaders-to-enact-Ethans-Law


Friends and family members of Ethan Stacy are contacting congressional leaders to establish "Ethan's Law," new legislation that will protect children from being returned to estranged parents who have abandoned them.

snipped...

Her goal is to encourage members of Congress to enact legislation preventing judges from granting custody to parents who have abandoned their children. "If they want to establish some type of visitation, it should be done gradually and with due process, and integrate them back into the child's life," she said.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Wow...those pictures made me cry again. He was so loved...

Yes.

That is part of what tears me apart about this. He went from being loved and cherished beyond description to being brutalized and tortured. In just a period of days.

And that photo posted on FB? I think he was alive, but he just seems so ... defeated. I realize his affect is no doubt due to the injuries and whatever drugs he'd been given, but IMO it goes deeper than that. He looks like he's lost all hope. That just breaks my heart. I can't even bring myself to think about what must have been going through his mind by that point. An older person may have been praying for release, to just die and get the agony over with... but a child that young? There's no way he could have processed what was happening to him. I can't process it.

Calliope
05-20-2010, 04:23 PM
Pretty powerful image.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/esc.jpg

Pat Bagley cartoon in the May 14th Salt Lake City Tribune depicts a father holding tight his son while a newspaper lay on the floor with front page headline of Ethan Stacy.

2goldfish
05-20-2010, 04:27 PM
Yes.

That is part of what tears me apart about this. He went from being loved and cherished beyond description to being brutalized and tortured. In just a period of days.



my snip


and that's what sends me into hysteria over this particular ...grrrr....they barely had him 5 days before torturing him! WHY WHY WHY.

WHY not give him back to his dad who loved him? WHY?

cc81
05-20-2010, 05:06 PM
I should have been more clear. What I posted applies to child support enforced through the state via an IV-D agency. Child support issues handled outside state agencies don't follow the same procedures. My case is through the state.

ETA: We don't know if child support for Ethans case was handled through the state or not....


I've never actually heard of an IV-D agency.. Mine has always been handled by the NC Child Support Enforcement Agency until recently, when they decided to switch it to the VA CSEA (I moved back to VA a couple months after our original hearing) I know that if my daughter ever got injured while at my home, I would not hesitate taking her to a doctor or the ER, no matter the bill.. I may want to kick my ex because of the full bill compared to what it could of been with insurance... but I would never hesitate providing her medical coverage.


this case is so sickening.. poor baby Ethan and his father.. I can only barely touch on the he** he could be feeling.. as I dread every time I drop my baby off, fear ripping through me, is this going to be the last visit.. Knowing that dread you feel when your baby looks at you and tells you they don't want to go see the other parent...

I hope those monsters ROT!!

forthelost
05-20-2010, 05:09 PM
very true!
my point was IF she has diabetes and that is a big IF while in jail/prison whatever ya call it they would have to provide her with balanced meals in a timely fashion and based on that diagnosis alone she might have better meal options than someone without diabetes?
wouldn't they?

Usually in institutional settings diabetic meals are *worse* than the ordinary meals since they have to be cobbled together from the same food supply. I've been in the hospital before and the diabetics always say the meals are worse because they get the same thing day after say.

Scuterputer
05-20-2010, 05:59 PM
Pretty powerful image.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/debbie5942/esc.jpg

Pat Bagley cartoon in the May 14th Salt Lake City Tribune depicts a father holding tight his son while a newspaper lay on the floor with front page headline of Ethan Stacy.

The images from the tribute from myspace (the silly webcam) and this made me start bawling again. Had to come out of lurking to comment. Thank you all for posting those.

I have a five year old son and seeing him play and laugh, and be such a daddy's boy, and knowing that Ethan was the same. I cry every time I think about it, that Ethan is the same as my little boy so full of life and happiness. I hope justice is served, because I can't make sense of it, and I never will.

ThePhantom
05-20-2010, 06:30 PM
Perhaps I was too harsh on the judge. I just wish, that, --- when it comes to kids who are clearly caught in the midst of difficult situations -- there would be an adult who could/would say something like -- "I'm worried about this child, I'm worried about the environment he/she is going into. I'm going to make sure he/she is checked on and/or his/her situation is re-evaluated" (preferably by someone who is experienced in child welfare). Or perhaps, what I am desiring, is naught more than a pipe dream -- and trusting children can no more be protected from monsters than a lamb from a wolf

Scuterputer
05-20-2010, 06:31 PM
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs612.snc3/32189_1273477401701_1372905552_30592551_7397153_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs559.ash1/32558_1125608716595_1718485371_223901_3387205_n.jp g

Source: Justice for Ethan Stacy facebook page

Ethan was just so sweet and loved.

Scuterputer
05-20-2010, 06:36 PM
Perhaps I was too harsh on the judge. I just wish, that, --- when it comes to kids who are clearly caught in the midst of difficult situations -- there would be an adult who could/would say something like -- "I'm worried about this child, I'm worried about the environment he/she is going into. I'm going to make sure he/she is checked on and/or his/her situation is re-evaluated" (preferably by someone who is experienced in child welfare). Or perhaps, what I am desiring, is naught more than a pipe dream -- and trusting children can no more be protected from monsters than a lamb from a wolf

No its not a pipe dream, children in those types of situations should have a monitor during visitations to a new environment. Never left alone with no supervision, especially when there is concern about the child's well being.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 07:18 PM
Perhaps I was too harsh on the judge. I just wish, that, --- when it comes to kids who are clearly caught in the midst of difficult situations -- there would be an adult who could/would say something like -- "I'm worried about this child, I'm worried about the environment he/she is going into. I'm going to make sure he/she is checked on and/or his/her situation is re-evaluated" (preferably by someone who is experienced in child welfare). Or perhaps, what I am desiring, is naught more than a pipe dream -- and trusting children can no more be protected from monsters than a lamb from a wolf

I understand. What I wish, is that coparenting classes were mandatory as part of the divorce proceedings prior to the finalization of the divorce when children are involved. I'm sure the 'professionals' would know reasonable amount of times, and measures which could be put into place for couples who are cooperative, and those who are not.

In cases where one parent moves out of the area, they could look at the reasons. Where they valid or by choice?

I know it would have helped me a lot had I known these were available. They were in my county and they were FREE. however, they would have had to have been recommended by a judge or magistrate and for OT reasons, I was unaware they were available until much later or I would have requested them.

Also, rules such as overnight guests that are of the opposite sex. SOME custody agreements have them, but they are not standard. Even something like that would be beneficial.

Sadly, I think even those would be fought by those who would say they are violations of our freedom......

It is frustrating when parents do not put their kids first. :banghead:

CHICANA
05-20-2010, 09:43 PM
Perhaps I was too harsh on the judge. I just wish, that, --- when it comes to kids who are clearly caught in the midst of difficult situations -- there would be an adult who could/would say something like -- "I'm worried about this child, I'm worried about the environment he/she is going into. I'm going to make sure he/she is checked on and/or his/her situation is re-evaluated" (preferably by someone who is experienced in child welfare). Or perhaps, what I am desiring, is naught more than a pipe dream -- and trusting children can no more be protected from monsters than a lamb from a wolf

Some kids can't be protected because some outcomes can't be foreseen.

CHICANA
05-20-2010, 09:58 PM
But, as parents we have the right to make decisions for our children. Disallowing two parents to reach an agreement prior to seeing a judge would be a violation of our rights.

I realize people want to reach out, place blame, find a reason no one interceded for this child prior to his egg donor and her monstrous husband murdering this child, but the reality of it is in this case if no one, including Ethans father had any forsight this would happen how would a judge?

I have no doubt if Joe had an incling SS and NS were a danger to Ethan he would have NEVER come to an agreement via mediation. However, it is his right by law to be allowed the opportunity to do so - without asking a judge take his right as a parent to make decisions for his child.

The family court judge who approved the agreement Joe and Stephanie made regarding their divorce is NOT to blame for Ethans murder. Only Stephanie and Nathan are to blame.

JMO

ET: Not every parent divorcing is unable to come to an agreement and put their children first. LOTS and lots of parents can and do. Unfortunately we don't often hear succesful coparenting stories. They aren't newsworthy..... but they do happen.

I actually agree. The judge did what she was supposed to do. The state isn't supposed to act as parent unless the parent is PROVEN to be unfit.

sunflowerchick
05-20-2010, 11:07 PM
I understand. What I wish, is that coparenting classes were mandatory as part of the divorce proceedings prior to the finalization of the divorce when children are involved. I'm sure the 'professionals' would know reasonable amount of times, and measures which could be put into place for couples who are cooperative, and those who are not.

In cases where one parent moves out of the area, they could look at the reasons. Where they valid or by choice?

I know it would have helped me a lot had I known these were available. They were in my county and they were FREE. however, they would have had to have been recommended by a judge or magistrate and for OT reasons, I was unaware they were available until much later or I would have requested them.

Also, rules such as overnight guests that are of the opposite sex. SOME custody agreements have them, but they are not standard. Even something like that would be beneficial.

Sadly, I think even those would be fought by those who would say they are violations of our freedom......

It is frustrating when parents do not put their kids first. :banghead:

BBM

Coparenting classes ARE actually mandatory in many states - Utah and Colorado are two. Both parents have to attend these classes and have a voucher signed by the teacher in order to get the divorce before the judge. I don't really think that is the issue here, and I don't believe those classes would have helped. I also don't think that this tragedy occurred because of a deficit in the court system or a lack of concern in divorce and child custody cases.

I think this is nothing other than the product of two sick individuals... and I still stand by my belief that drugs were involved.

Cubby
05-20-2010, 11:17 PM
BBM

Coparenting classes ARE actually mandatory in many states - Utah and Colorado are two. Both parents have to attend these classes and have a voucher signed by the teacher in order to get the divorce before the judge. I don't really think that is the issue here, and I don't believe those classes would have helped. I also don't think that this tragedy occurred because of a deficit in the court system or a lack of concern in divorce and child custody cases.

I think this is nothing other than the product of two sick individuals... and I still stand by my belief that drugs were involved.


Thank you. I wasn't aware they were mandatory in some states. I am a never married mom, so I am not as familiar with the divorce stuff.

Though, I don't know how SS would have been able to be involved in these classes since she hasn't resided in FL for sometime. I too don't believe it would have made a difference in this case.

perhaps we are just re-evaluating. Even if just to educate ourselves, answer any questions.... in a comforting way... since everyone is so eager to see Justice brought quickly in this case.

ETA: And we as sleuths want to look at the facts, as we wonder why.

redsky
05-20-2010, 11:17 PM
BBM

Coparenting classes ARE actually mandatory in many states - Utah and Colorado are two. Both parents have to attend these classes and have a voucher signed by the teacher in order to get the divorce before the judge. I don't really think that is the issue here, and I don't believe those classes would have helped. I also don't think that this tragedy occurred because of a deficit in the court system or a lack of concern in divorce and child custody cases.

I think this is nothing other than the product of two sick individuals... and I still stand by my belief that drugs were involved.

BBM

I worry that this kind of situation is unavoidable. From what it seems (and I may have missed something), the judge had no reason not to give summer custody to the mother. No one could have predicted that something his horrific would happen. It makes me sad to know that we can't protect everyone and it makes me sick to think about Ethan.

Paintr
05-20-2010, 11:31 PM
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10845155

Ethan Stacy case could be prosecuted under 'Shelby's Law'


In 2006, 10-year-old Shelby Andrews was tortured and abused by her father and stepmother. Ryan and Angela Andrews are now serving 15 years to life in prison for her murder.

At the time, prosecutors could not seek the death penalty against the couple because they didn't think they could prove intent to kill.


snipped...

Ray wrote a bill that makes child abuse deaths involving reckless indifference a capital offense. Shelby's Law passed in 2007. Ethan's case could be the first one prosecuted under that law.

Paintr
05-20-2010, 11:39 PM
http://www.clippertoday.com/view/full_story/7551482/article-%E2%80%98Ethan-Stacy-is-safe-now%E2%80%99?instance=home_news_1st_left



At a press conference Friday, Davis County Attorney Troy Rawlings said his office was delaying charging the couple as they continue to sift through evidence and wait for the final autopsy results. Those charges may be filed on May 28, when the couple again appears in court.

“It is the intent of the Davis County Attorney’s Office to file the most serious charges and to seek the maximum penalties that the facts and law will allow us to do against Nathan and Stephanie Sloop for the death of 4-year-old Ethan Stacy,” Rawlings told members of the media.

Those charges are expected to be aggravated homicide, which carries three possible outcomes if the couple is found guilty. They include the death penalty, life in prison without the possibility of parole, or 20 years to life with parole.

At the press conference, Rawlings refused to go into the details of the case, and said the probable cause statements released on May 13, did not tell the whole story.

RubyRed
05-20-2010, 11:47 PM
http://www.clippertoday.com/view/full_story/7551482/article-%E2%80%98Ethan-Stacy-is-safe-now%E2%80%99?instance=home_news_1st_left



At a press conference Friday, Davis County Attorney Troy Rawlings said his office was delaying charging the couple as they continue to sift through evidence and wait for the final autopsy results. Those charges may be filed on May 28, when the couple again appears in court.

“It is the intent of the Davis County Attorney’s Office to file the most serious charges and to seek the maximum penalties that the facts and law will allow us to do against Nathan and Stephanie Sloop for the death of 4-year-old Ethan Stacy,” Rawlings told members of the media.

Those charges are expected to be aggravated homicide, which carries three possible outcomes if the couple is found guilty. They include the death penalty, life in prison without the possibility of parole, or 20 years to life with parole.

At the press conference, Rawlings refused to go into the details of the case, and said the probable cause statements released on May 13, did not tell the whole story.

bbm

I can't imagine this getting any worse. Unbelievable what they have done.
It is hard to comprehend.

sunflowerchick
05-20-2010, 11:54 PM
Cubby, I don't know how the divorce classes work when two parents reside in different states. I also don't know if Florida has the mandatory classes. These are typically ordered by the state where the case is filed.

I really do think it is important to re-evaluate, to understand the why. Hopefully if we know how and why these things happen, we can prevent them in the future. In this case, I don't really know that there were any warning signs that something this tragic would happen, and that is part of the tragedy of it...

MOO

Vegas Bride
05-21-2010, 12:11 AM
bbm

I can't imagine this getting any worse. Unbelievable what they have done.
It is hard to comprehend.

As sick as this case has been already, I pray that all of us will find the strength to get through it when more information comes out.
There's going to be quite a bit of video evidence IMO showing N & S at different locations while all of it was happening, plus the horrible cell phone pictures.
My heart continues to go out to Joe and the rest of Ethans family who love him so.
I heard on one report that he's said he will be coming to Utah when it's time everything goes to court.

VB

harleysnana
05-21-2010, 12:50 AM
9292

I’m not sure if this picture has been posted on WS or not ….
But IMO this is one of the first abuse photos… it appears to be taken by the
door of the apartment and he has a shirt that says “my mom is hot”.
If you look at his face you can see a few marks… also if you compare
his hair in this photo to the one of him sitting on the couch it looks like they
cut his hair after this one was taken.:(

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 01:09 AM
9292

I’m not sure if this picture has been posted on WS or not ….
But IMO this is one of the first abuse photos… it appears to be taken by the
door of the apartment and he has a shirt that says “my mom is hot”.
If you look at his face you can see a few marks… also if you compare
his hair in this photo to the one of him sitting on the couch it looks like they
cut his hair after this one was taken.:(

I did not know that was taken at their apartment.

harleysnana
05-21-2010, 01:36 AM
I did not know that was taken at their apartment.

I'm almost positive it was... if you look at the photos of the vigil you can
see some people going up to the door and IMO it looks like the same place.

suzyq211
05-21-2010, 01:37 AM
9292

I’m not sure if this picture has been posted on WS or not ….
But IMO this is one of the first abuse photos… it appears to be taken by the
door of the apartment and he has a shirt that says “my mom is hot”.
If you look at his face you can see a few marks… also if you compare
his hair in this photo to the one of him sitting on the couch it looks like they
cut his hair after this one was taken.:(

...still smiling for the camera, though...sweet baby.

sleuthy sleutherson
05-21-2010, 01:43 AM
Thanks. I know from experience of some close to me that sometimes the state doesn't go after them with quite the same zeal as they do when it involves someone on welfare. However the state of Florida pursued my ex years after the original order, long after I'd given up hope of ever seeing a single penny from him (he never paid at all, ever). Imagine my surprise (and his too) when they caught up with him in Michigan and began garnisheeing his wages for what was owed me plus interest. These checks started coming to me when my daughter was 28, I'm sure he believed he was in the clear once she reached 18. Because of the interest charged, the total he ended up paying was almost 3 times what it would have been if he'd only kept up with the payments in the first place.


/OT

Good, this is what needs to happen when another parent isn't helping to pay for the expenses of their child. We all have bills to pay and anyone that is actually paying for a child knows how expensive it is to raise a child. There isn't just insurance and daycare, food and school costs.

I don't know if it varies by state, but I believe that any back owed child support in some states may be ordered to be paid to the child once they reach 18, at least I know of a person whose father asked them to forgive all back due support once they were older, not sure what the circumstances were. Regardless, it should go to the person who was paying for the child all those years and if they happen to not be around any longer than yes, by all means it should go to the child.

Calliope
05-21-2010, 01:50 AM
I'm almost positive it was... if you look at the photos of the vigil you can
see some people going up to the door and IMO it looks like the same place.

I don't know. That was posted by family or friends on the FB pages. I don't think they would have had access to any photos SS took while he was in Utah.

Calliope
05-21-2010, 01:55 AM
9292

I’m not sure if this picture has been posted on WS or not ….
But IMO this is one of the first abuse photos… it appears to be taken by the
door of the apartment and he has a shirt that says “my mom is hot”.
If you look at his face you can see a few marks… also if you compare
his hair in this photo to the one of him sitting on the couch it looks like they
cut his hair after this one was taken.:(

This photo was taken by someone who attended his vigil. If you notice, the door doesn't have the metal piece at the bottom as shown in the one you posted.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=252536&op=9&o=global&view=global&subj=122374551115521&id=1717427750

sleuthy sleutherson
05-21-2010, 01:57 AM
BBM

I worry that this kind of situation is unavoidable. From what it seems (and I may have missed something), the judge had no reason not to give summer custody to the mother. No one could have predicted that something his horrific would happen. It makes me sad to know that we can't protect everyone and it makes me sick to think about Ethan.

I agree that there doesn't appear to be anything that would have predicted this tragedy. I probably sound like a broken record here but I'll point it out again, only because IMO it says a million words. She had willingly not seen her own 4 year old in 8 months, I really don't know what else you need to order or request that their visitation be limited and or supervised until she showed she had good decision making as a parent and cared more about herself than her child. What really gets me is the hysterical message she left for her friend saying Ethan won't stop crying, he just wants mommy. Um, no duh, he hasn't seen you in 8 months, he doesn't want NS, he wants you and your undivided attention and your too busy caring about what NS needs/wants to give Ethan his mommy and take care of him & protect him like a mother is supposed to.:banghead:

harleysnana
05-21-2010, 02:31 AM
This photo was taken by someone who attended his vigil. If you notice, the door doesn't have the metal piece at the bottom as shown in the one you posted.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=252536&op=9&o=global&view=global&subj=122374551115521&id=1717427750

I think it does.. it's just at an angle so it looks different.
Also... why would his dad put a shirt on him that says "my mom is hot"?
IMO it's the same... look at the blinds.. the color of the door and the fact
he is standing on cement and you can see the raling in the reflection.
Zoom in and you can see the paint is peeling at the same spot.

CHICANA
05-21-2010, 02:34 AM
I agree that there doesn't appear to be anything that would have predicted this tragedy. I probably sound like a broken record here but I'll point it out again, only because IMO it says a million words. She had willingly not seen her own 4 year old in 8 months, I really don't know what else you need to order or request that their visitation be limited and or supervised until she showed she had good decision making as a parent and cared more about herself than her child. What really gets me is the hysterical message she left for her friend saying Ethan won't stop crying, he just wants mommy. Um, no duh, he hasn't seen you in 8 months, he doesn't want NS, he wants you and your undivided attention and your too busy caring about what NS needs/wants to give Ethan his mommy and take care of him & protect him like a mother is supposed to.:banghead:

You're absolutely right, but the parents came to an agreement and the judge approved it. One party requests something, evidence is presented and the judge rules. That didn't happen and the judge followed the law.
Believe me when I say it's rare for me to ever defend the family court system, but I haven't seen anything that indicates this judge was at fault.

Calliope
05-21-2010, 03:53 AM
I think it does.. it's just at an angle so it looks different.
Also... why would his dad put a shirt on him that says "my mom is hot"?
IMO it's the same... look at the blinds.. the color of the door and the fact
he is standing on cement and you can see the raling in the reflection.
Zoom in and you can see the paint is peeling at the same spot.

Maybe so, but I'm not seeing it as the same only because of the metal kick shield ... but if it is, I pray they take it down. They shouldn't post anything taken from that hell hole.

maggieo
05-21-2010, 08:38 AM
http://www.clippertoday.com/view/full_story/7551482/article-%E2%80%98Ethan-Stacy-is-safe-now%E2%80%99?instance=home_news_1st_left


At the press conference, Rawlings refused to go into the details of the case, and said the probable cause statements released on May 13, did not tell the whole story.

snipped

I don't think this necessarily means that the horrors little Ethan experienced were worse than we've heard so far (though it might :( )

I think it's that they want to pin more on SS. The probable cause statement was based on what SS told LE, and I'm SURE she down-played her role in this. Still, it was enough to haul them both in, so they took what they got. And SS was probably telling the truth about what NS did. I think she just conveniently left out what SHE did.

And NS isn't talking. He has nothing to gain from talking at this point, even if it would mean sharing the blame for some of the worst abuse. Who would believe him?

I think Rawlings is looking for independent evidence that she participated in the abuse.

maggieo
05-21-2010, 08:40 AM
Maybe so, but I'm not seeing it as the same only because of the metal kick shield ... but if it is, I pray they take it down. They shouldn't post anything taken from that hell hole.

And that shirt is just devastating. :furious:

I can't stand to look at it.

ci2i
05-21-2010, 09:16 AM
I don't think that any more pictures should be released....ever. At what point does the family's privacy supercede the public's right to know? I, personally, have heard more than enough and don't think my heart or my head can take any more. My mood swings are awful.

I only hope I am around long enough to see that they both get what they so rightfully deserve and even that isn't enough.

AmandaReckonwith
05-21-2010, 09:24 AM
This photo was taken by someone who attended his vigil. If you notice, the door doesn't have the metal piece at the bottom as shown in the one you posted.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=252536&op=9&o=global&view=global&subj=122374551115521&id=1717427750

It isn't the same outside door, but I also think it was taken at the apartment complex in Layton. Look at the reflection in the window. You can see stairs going up/down.


eta... these pics of the Sloop's door looks like the one in the hot mom pic:
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=252570&op=7&o=global&view=global&subj=122374551115521&id=1717427750

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/photo.php?pid=252575&op=7&o=global&view=global&subj=122374551115521&id=1717427750

tk71texas
05-21-2010, 09:33 AM
BBM

Coparenting classes ARE actually mandatory in many states - Utah and Colorado are two. Both parents have to attend these classes and have a voucher signed by the teacher in order to get the divorce before the judge. I don't really think that is the issue here, and I don't believe those classes would have helped. I also don't think that this tragedy occurred because of a deficit in the court system or a lack of concern in divorce and child custody cases.

I think this is nothing other than the product of two sick individuals... and I still stand by my belief that drugs were involved.

bbm.....This is mandatory in Texas also but....I filed for divorce in Texas and my ex was living in Oklahoma. I took the class and had the waiver signed. My ex didn't take the class and didn't even show up for the divorce hearing. Judge gave me everything I asked for and he didn't even get regular visitation. So while they say it is mandatory, I think the mandatoryness is a little lax. I'm not complaining though, it went in my favor this time!

ThePhantom
05-21-2010, 11:13 AM
So here's a "wierd" thing -- I live in a nice middle class neighborhood -- but like most neighborhoods, some of the folks living in this one have "issues." There is a house across the street that almost seems like a boarding house -- young people coming and going -- I suspect there may have been some "dealing" going on there to pay the rent. The Mom is single, her Mother lives there too-- anyway, about two years ago, I noticed a baby was there. Apparently, one of the sons and his girlfriend had a child, and they must have joint custody. I have watched as the little boy plays in the front yard with -- let's just say, all kinds of people, and it has made me nervous. Sometimes it appears he isn't watched much at all. Fast forward to yesterday -- I looked in my front yard and lo and behold there he was -- he's about two years old, has the same very short blond hair like Ethan had -- glasses -- big eyes -- and I thought -- ah ha, whereas I have been trying to not get involved in this situation (because I have a tendancy to get involved a little too often if you know what I mean) -- I suddenly realized -- that is exactly what I need to do -- talk to him, talk to his parents, blow bubbles, give him a popsicle, let him play with the sidewalk chalk and run after him if I see him standing in the middle of the court. I know it's not fair to be judgemental -- his parents are twenty somethings -- working -- in my mind, they were not and are not ready for this tremendous responsibility. But after going through what we've all gone through with Ethan's death -- I'm thanking God for the chance to make a difference. Just wanted to share this as an example of how God really can bring something good out of terrible pain. Rest in peace, dear little Ethan -- you have made a positive difference in people's lives!!

Jenny60123
05-21-2010, 11:22 AM
I understand. What I wish, is that coparenting classes were mandatory as part of the divorce proceedings prior to the finalization of the divorce when children are involved. I'm sure the 'professionals' would know reasonable amount of times, and measures which could be put into place for couples who are cooperative, and those who are not.

In cases where one parent moves out of the area, they could look at the reasons. Where they valid or by choice?

I know it would have helped me a lot had I known these were available. They were in my county and they were FREE. however, they would have had to have been recommended by a judge or magistrate and for OT reasons, I was unaware they were available until much later or I would have requested them.

Also, rules such as overnight guests that are of the opposite sex. SOME custody agreements have them, but they are not standard. Even something like that would be beneficial.

Sadly, I think even those would be fought by those who would say they are violations of our freedom......

It is frustrating when parents do not put their kids first. :banghead:

Respectfully bolded by me.
I was divorced years ago and had small children at the time. In Illinois where I live we did have to take joint parenting classes, and also to sign a joint parenting agreement. Is this something that could be made a national law? Anything that would help these precious children is not too much to ask.

ThePhantom
05-21-2010, 11:29 AM
Maybe we need a slogan, like "the kids have a right to live a safe, happy life." But then....don't we all?

annalyzer
05-21-2010, 11:30 AM
bbm

I can't imagine this getting any worse. Unbelievable what they have done.
It is hard to comprehend.

Did they ever say how the feces was supposed to have gotten in his mouth?

Vegas Bride
05-21-2010, 12:12 PM
This is how I feel, I'm mad, I'm fed up with all the pos's like S & N, I've had it, no more!!

VB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqk_q4NLLI&feature=related

AmandaReckonwith
05-21-2010, 12:18 PM
Did they ever say how the feces was supposed to have gotten in his mouth?

Well, a 1 or 2 yr old might put it in his own mouth but not a 4 year old, no way.

It was Nathan, IMO.

Scuterputer
05-21-2010, 12:41 PM
9292

I’m not sure if this picture has been posted on WS or not ….
But IMO this is one of the first abuse photos… it appears to be taken by the
door of the apartment and he has a shirt that says “my mom is hot”.
If you look at his face you can see a few marks… also if you compare
his hair in this photo to the one of him sitting on the couch it looks like they
cut his hair after this one was taken.:(

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9292&d=1274417215

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=252575&op=7&o=global&view=global&subj=122374551115521&id=1717427750

That was definitely taken at the apartment. The paint is chipped at the same place in both photos on the doorframe. That has to be a SS photo. Same blinds as well.

In the blue shirt photo look at the door frame, there is a triangular piece of white paint chipped showing the wood grain.

In the memorial photo, look at the door frame.

You will see the same piece of paint chipped away. Ethan is holding onto the rail in the first pic leaning.

I hate to say it, but those marks on his precious face...I have a bad feeling.

To keep my mind from delving any further into the possibility, I talked to my husband today about trying to get a Teddy bear drive started in my county. These precious babies need help and comfort.

cc81
05-21-2010, 01:19 PM
you've convinced me Scuterputer!

That poor baby.. after blowing up the "my mom is hot" picture, he's either into biting his lower lip so much it bleeds, or its busted... taken into account the monsters he was with, I'm going with busted.
He's also got a sore under his nose.
If anyone else can blow up the picture, tell me if it looks like his poor right eye is redder than normal on the inside, where it's supposed to be white.

As for the discolored tooth. To me it does not look bloody. I really do not know the term, but here in Virginia, especially in areas that have well water, it is very common for doctors to prescribe iron supplements to prevent discoloration of the teeth.. Excuse the terms here, but when I was little, I remember my babysitters son had it with both of his front teeth and I always thought it looked like he had 'boogers' on his teeth. (sorry) that looks very similar to what little Ethans tooth looks like.

eta: I also see bruising on the right side of his neck

Scuterputer
05-21-2010, 01:38 PM
you've convinced me Scuterputer!

That poor baby.. after blowing up the "my mom is hot" picture, he's either into biting his lower lip so much it bleeds, or its busted... taken into account the monsters he was with, I'm going with busted.
He's also got a sore under his nose.
If anyone else can blow up the picture, tell me if it looks like his poor right eye is redder than normal on the inside, where it's supposed to be white.

As for the discolored tooth. To me it does not look bloody. I really do not know the term, but here in Virginia, especially in areas that have well water, it is very common for doctors to prescribe iron supplements to prevent discoloration of the teeth.. Excuse the terms here, but when I was little, I remember my babysitters son had it with both of his front teeth and I always thought it looked like he had 'boogers' on his teeth. (sorry) that looks very similar to what little Ethans tooth looks like.

eta: I also see bruising on the right side of his neck


Working on it now. Will have it posted shortly.

tk71texas
05-21-2010, 01:48 PM
well i am horrible at photoshop'ing but i find this picture easier to look at.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1144&pictureid=10288




was that wrong.......Rest In Peace little one!

Adrienne37
05-21-2010, 01:51 PM
In looking at this newest photo of him, he definitely looks as if the abuse had already started but that smile is just precious. I hate the fact that the monster made him wear a shirt like this though especially knowing what the end result was. I don't think I've ever been as emotionally disturbed by any of these cases that we follow on here as I have this one. It's just so terribly sad. Ethan should be at home with his real family where he was loved and adored.

Scuterputer
05-21-2010, 01:53 PM
He has a bruise on his neck, lips either chapped or busted, sore on nose, red streak down side of face.

Image cropped and clarify placed on it.

Now going to go smoke a cigarette to calm my nerves and to quit crying.

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 01:58 PM
He has a bruise on his neck, lips either chapped or busted, sore on nose, red streak down side of face.

Image cropped and clarify placed on it.

Now going to go smoke a cigarette to calm my nerves and to quit crying.

BBm

This was the start of the abuse, in my opinion. Yet the little guy could still smile. What POS they are. Now I am going to calm my nerves too.

Brian5671
05-21-2010, 02:07 PM
Truly unbelieveable. Not so much that NS hit the child, but that SS didnt go to the police or anyone...she had chances to do this. She was allegedly at wal-mart when he was burned in the bathroom-she could have driven to the PD and had the cops show up and arrest NS and get the child to the ER. No Excuses...None. I hope they are both brutalized in prison.

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 02:15 PM
Truly unbelieveable. Not so much that NS hit the child, but that SS didnt go to the police or anyone...she had chances to do this. She was allegedly at wal-mart when he was burned in the bathroom-she could have driven to the PD and had the cops show up and arrest NS and get the child to the ER. No Excuses...None. I hope they are both brutalized in prison.

Not just at Wal-Mart, at the courthouse getting married, where there would have been LE to protect her. Uploading pics to facebook, taking pictures. The minute he closed the bedroom door, and she heard, she should have called 911. And while she was waiting for LE to arrive, beat NS over the head with a cast iron skillet. I will never understand why she did not protect that precious boy.

Cubby
05-21-2010, 02:29 PM
Truly unbelieveable. Not so much that NS hit the child, but that SS didnt go to the police or anyone...she had chances to do this. She was allegedly at wal-mart when he was burned in the bathroom-she could have driven to the PD and had the cops show up and arrest NS and get the child to the ER. No Excuses...None. I hope they are both brutalized in prison.


Welcome to WS Brian5671

:Welcome-12-june:

TobyWong*
05-21-2010, 02:39 PM
He has a bruise on his neck, lips either chapped or busted, sore on nose, red streak down side of face.

Image cropped and clarify placed on it.

Now going to go smoke a cigarette to calm my nerves and to quit crying.

I just tried all the facebok links on this page and it says content not available.

I am sickened by this picture! This poor beautiful boy!! How dare his mother make him smile so she could doucument this torture and she put that shirt on him! That right there shows all she was thinking about. I hope & pray all of her cell mates are showing her just how nasty & ugly she really is!
My head is just screaming, "Give him to me!" but its to late now. I wish there was a place for parents who know they can't/won't care for their children and they could just drop them off no questions asked and people like me could just go pick them up and love them forever. But I guess people like these people like to abuse and torture so they would never admit they can't handle it. And of course she wanted Ethan to come visit.

Cubby
05-21-2010, 02:39 PM
He has a bruise on his neck, lips either chapped or busted, sore on nose, red streak down side of face.

Image cropped and clarify placed on it.

Now going to go smoke a cigarette to calm my nerves and to quit crying.



I think the red mark down his face might be an imprint of whatever he was smacked with and whatever he was smacked with caused the lips to look chapped.

I don't believe the lips are chapped because cracks from chapped lips are not so far inside the lip. Those cracks are from where his teeth busted his lip.

Precious Ethan.... I can't get you out of my mind and I am sooo sooo sorry for what you had to endure the last days of your life. I hope you know we would have saved you if we knew. RIP sweetie.

Brian5671
05-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Welcome to WS Brian5671

:Welcome-12-june:

Thanks! Long time lurker, first time poster...this case did it for me.

TobyWong*
05-21-2010, 02:44 PM
Truly unbelieveable. Not so much that NS hit the child, but that SS didnt go to the police or anyone...she had chances to do this. She was allegedly at wal-mart when he was burned in the bathroom-she could have driven to the PD and had the cops show up and arrest NS and get the child to the ER. No Excuses...None. I hope they are both brutalized in prison.

Nope she put a trashy shirt on him and took pictures of his perfect face that they bruised and bloodied

Scuterputer
05-21-2010, 02:55 PM
I just tried all the facebok links on this page and it says content not available.



The justice for Ethan Stacy facebook group now requires you to be a fan to see the images, thats probably why. I wondered the same thing earlier then became a fan, then able to see images again.

BeanE
05-21-2010, 02:59 PM
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/05/21/dasdfdsfds_370x278.jpg

harleysnana
05-21-2010, 03:38 PM
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/05/21/dasdfdsfds_370x278.jpg

Thanks BeanE...
I think this is one of my favorite pictures of Ethan!

sarx
05-21-2010, 03:58 PM
The vertical bruising on his cheek IMO looks like he ran into a corner or edge of a wall or door (or was pushed). My daughter did that years ago (on her own) and had a nice bruise and busted up the inside of her mouth from where her teeth hit the inside of her lip. It would look the same whether it was done on accident or via violence.

monkeymama
05-21-2010, 04:22 PM
well i am horrible at photoshop'ing but i find this picture easier to look at.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1144&pictureid=10288




was that wrong.......Rest In Peace little one!

After looking at the picture and the apartment, I think you may be right. What I want to know is: if this pic was taken while he was with SS, WHO took it and WHY didn't they do something? I would have thought that the news would be all over the photo, imo.

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 04:26 PM
well i am horrible at photoshop'ing but i find this picture easier to look at.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1144&pictureid=10288




was that wrong.......Rest In Peace little one!

No, I like the shirt better like that.

monkeymama
05-21-2010, 04:29 PM
I thought this picture was awesome. I hope it uploads right.

Scuterputer
05-21-2010, 04:40 PM
After looking at the picture and the apartment, I think you may be right. What I want to know is: if this pic was taken while he was with SS, WHO took it and WHY didn't they do something? I would have thought that the news would be all over the photo, imo.

Sometimes the little things are overlooked. I would garner this was on her personal facebook and was leaked as as the one where NS and Ethan was on the couch. I do graphic design and have an eye for details.

eyes4crime
05-21-2010, 05:34 PM
Time-line for Ethan Stacy 4yo.

WARNING: GRAPHIC AND DISTURBING.
revision (05/21/10 - eyes4crime & wonderful fellow sleuthers)

April 28th - Wednesday
Divorce papers finalized in Florida, Ethan and mom Stephanie fly to Utah

May 3rd - Tuesday
..Stacy said that Ethan told him in their last phone conversation on May 3rd that he was having fun visiting his mom in Layton. Prior to leaving, Ethan hadn’t wanted to go. **
..Last time Ethan talks with dad Joe.

May 4th - Tuesday
..Post on Face Book, the first of 17 cell phone pictures & videos mom takes of abuse over the days.
..Picture time-stamped May 4th of Ethan with large, notable, area of swelling to jaw and face.
.. Ethan's father, Joe Stacy, told his son wasn't available to talk, a trend that continues through Ethan's limited stay.
....Stephanie continues to complain to dad Joe about Ethan's behavior.

May5th - Wednesday
..Nate's mom sees son Nate, Ethan, and Stephanie - says all is fine (meeting place not mentioned).
..Stephanie visits Nate's mom.
..Nate takes Ethan in bedroom to punish and beats child around head area; face begins to swell.

..May 5. Stephanie texted her brother that she and Nathan Sloop were going to a courthouse the next day to get married so that they could apply for food stamps, Medicaid and other public assistance, he said. Their "real" wedding in Colorado was still on, she told him. **

May 5th - May 8th
..Ethan "exhibits signs and symptoms of a possible head injury or brain swelling due to a head injury,"

Stephanie Sloop told police Tuesday while being interviewed about her son's death: Ethan did not eat well, was vomiting, lethargic and exhibited non-responsive behavior, according to the reports.

May 6th - Thursday (wedding day)
..Ethan locked in bedroom while Stephanie and Nate marry; door knob taken off. Nate and Stephanie leave child in bedroom due to swelling and bruises.

From Warrant of Probable Cause:
Over the next several days, Ethan got progressively ill, police said Stephanie Sloop told detectives. He was vomiting, running a fever and would not eat. The couple forced the boy to drink two 16 oz. bottles of water, a bottle of KoolAid and orange juice in a two-hour period, police wrote in the jail statement. (from warrant of probable cause). Motrin and Benadryl were given for the swelling and Nate gave Benadryl so Ethan would stay quiet.

Thursday, May 6 or Friday, May 7:
Neighbor recalls seeing Stephanie walking away from the apartment seemingly agitated and stopping to look back at the apartment several times. A short time later Nathan followed her, put his hands on her face in a manner leading the neighbor to believe he was asking she please listen to him.

May 7th, Friday
Three nights before Stephanie and her new husband, Nathan Sloop, reported Ethan missing, Jones said Stephanie left a series of frantic voice messages.
Related:
.."She left crying, messages while she was crying, 'Ethan, he's crying. He won't stop crying. He wants his mommy. I don't know what to do. Please, please, call me. I don't know how to handle it. I don't know what to do,'" Jones said. **

..The final message, she now believes, may have come after Ethan died.

.."It was absolutely hysterical, sobbing to where I couldn't understand what she was saying," Jones said. "if I had to look deep into my heart, yeah, I would probably have to say that Ethan probably was dead, if not close to being dead at that point. And it was her grief reaching out." **

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

May 8th - Saturday
..Found smeared feces on bathroom wall and on Nate.
..Found feces in mouth and again brushed teeth.
..Notices Ethan's lips bleeding.
.. Blood and vomit found in child's bed.
..Stephanie needs to wash bed sheets due to blood and vomit from Ethan's mouth.

May 9th - Sunday (Mother's Day)
.. 5:00am - Stephanie makes trip to Walgreens to pick up RX.
..5:30am - Returns from store and told by Nate Ethan is dead.
..Stephanie finds Ethan dead in bed - reports Ethan feels cold and stiff, and without pulse.
..Stephanie attempts CPR to no avail.
...Stephanie goes to bed.

Ethan is wrapped in plastic garbage bags and taped, brought to Powder Mountain area for burial. Hammer used to disfigure facial features and teeth of Ethan.
Stephanie goes on errand purchasing 2 slushies and 2 cans lighter fluid to destroy evidence.

May 10th (Monday)
..Reported that Nate and Stephanie were shopping at Best Buy for video games and to fix Play Station 3(not verified)
..Ethan's father calls and talks with Nate rather than Stephanie.

..11:55pm - Stephanie reports Ethan missing
...Tells police a made up story about Ethan leaving the apt. 5x over the last 4 nights.

May 11th (Tuesday)
..LE finds child buried - teeth and face smashed with hammer; lighter fluid used to destroy evidence.
..Stephanie and husband Nate arrested.

May 19th (Wednesday) **
Funeral service for Ethan in Grundy, Virginia
Burial for Ethan in Richland, Virginia.

**New Information

Thanks to all who took the time for suggestions, additions/corrections - used every one of them.

Warrant of Probable Cause: Most of the time-line comes from Probable Cause document. Quotes, LE media leases

NATHAN
http://connect2utah.com/images/Multi...an%20Sloop.pdf

STEPHANIE
http://connect2utah.com/images/Multi...0C%20Sloop.pdf

Fellow sleuthers - please continue to let me know of updates, new information, corrections. Thanks for all your help!

eyes4crime
05-21-2010, 05:43 PM
Once again the probable cause links aren't working - happens every time I update and move the time-line. If anyone has working links I would appreciate it. Also, if you understand what happened on the 7th - and I have it confused, which I think I do, please let me know the correct sequence. Thanks so much for helping me with the updates. :blowkiss:

Calliope
05-21-2010, 05:49 PM
Sometimes the little things are overlooked. I would garner this was on her personal facebook and was leaked as as the one where NS and Ethan was on the couch. I do graphic design and have an eye for details.

I'm not convinced that was taken in Utah for two reasons. It was a photo posted on a FB site dedicated to his memory and the base of the door is not the same. I really hope that they wouldn't use a shot taken by that monster. Ruby linked to it first on the other thread because there were quite a few upset over the shirt, and it was since cropped. I'll see if I can find her post and if I can figure out which site it was that first posted the image (because now there are several) I'll message the person who posted it and ask if they know where it was taken. The red under his nose and the lips look like our little guy when he's had a cold. JMO, of course.

harleysnana
05-21-2010, 05:57 PM
I'm not convinced that was taken in Utah for two reasons. It was a photo posted on a FB site dedicated to his memory and the base of the door is not the same. I really hope that they wouldn't use a shot taken by that monster. Ruby linked to it first on the other thread because there were quite a few upset over the shirt, and it was since cropped. I'll see if I can find her post and if I can figure out which site it was that first posted the image (because now there are several) I'll message the person who posted it and ask if they know where it was taken. The red under his nose and the lips look like our little guy when he's had a cold. JMO, of course.

Calliope... I promise you if you blow up the picture it is taken by the same door. You can see the same paint chips..
all of the trim is the same... the door.. the door jam... it's just a different angle.

I have no clue where this photo came from ... I would guess that SS posted
it on her facebook and somone took it off.

smart blonde
05-21-2010, 06:05 PM
For some reason, my mind keeps getting stuck on the little details of the case...
For instance, I keep thinking about:

~ how they charged Nathanael/Nathan/Nate/NS with kicking/ damaging the cell door, after his arrest (per probable cause document).

Compared to everything else, this is such a minor thing but, what does this say about Nate's state of mind at time of arrest?

Kicking the cell door hard enough to damage it, shows his anger and frustration at being arrested, obviously. But, I think it is an interesting reaction for someone who just beat a child to death.

I mean, did he really think he was being 'wrongly' accused? Does he not understand that his own actions caused the death of little Ethan? Does he believe that it was just a coincidence that Ethan died after being beat? That is is okay to take a hammer to a child's face to destroy or delay identification?

I guess I would have imagined he would go quietly, ashamed of what he had done. I just wouldn't have guessed he would be trying to kick down the holding cell door in a fit of rage, after being caught.

BTW- I think his kicking/ damaging the cell door is yet another sign to me that NS was coming down from meth, and the horrific rages that meth can induce.

Like I stated at the beginning, this is such a minor detail compared to the glaring, important ones in this case. I just find this bit of information interesting.

Cubby
05-21-2010, 06:13 PM
eyes4crime. Thank you for updating the time line. while it is still so hard to read we need to keep facts straight/sorted and the timeline is a great help.

This just occured to me. I wonder if Nathans attempt at putting Ethan in the tub was to 'revive' him and he was possibly alive but not conscience then.... or they used the hot water to try and warm him up after his passing?

As God awful as that is to consider, I wonder why NS would even attempt to give Ethan a bath. Just seems odd. Not a job I would think of a male to do. I also can't see NS not leaving the cleaning up if Ethan soiled the bed.

thoughts?

Amster
05-21-2010, 06:18 PM
He probably kicked the door because his bride ratted them out.

smart blonde
05-21-2010, 06:26 PM
Here's what I think happened, regarding being scalded/ burned by the water in the bathtub...

I think that Ethan lost control of his bowels, during or just after one of the beatings that Nathanael administered.

I think that when Nathanael discovered that Ethan had soiled himself, and the bed, it further enraged Nathanael.

Then Nathanael, angry beyond measure, and wanting to teach Ethan 'a lesson', turned the hot water only on in the bathtub.

While the tub was filling with scalding water, Nathanael returned to Ethan's room, and while reaching down to scoop Ethan up to take to the bathroom, accidentally smeared some of Ethan's excrement on himself.

Having Ethan's feces on him caused him to scoop up a handful of feces and shove the feces in Ethan's mouth.

Then Nathanael picked up Ethan, and, (ironically), carrying Ethan in his arms the same way a groom would carry a bride over a threshold, he dropped Ethan into the tub of scalding hot water. (I believe this is how NS carried Ethan, because of the burn patterns on Ethan's body- i.e., feet and back of legs up to buttocks- these would be the areas of Ethans body to touch the hot water first).

smart blonde
05-21-2010, 06:41 PM
eyes4crime. Thank you for updating the time line. while it is still so hard to read we need to keep facts straight/sorted and the timeline is a great help.

This just occured to me. I wonder if Nathans attempt at putting Ethan in the tub was to 'revive' him and he was possibly alive but not conscience then.... or they used the hot water to try and warm him up after his passing?

As God awful as that is to consider, I wonder why NS would even attempt to give Ethan a bath. Just seems odd. Not a job I would think of a male to do. I also can't see NS not leaving the cleaning up if Ethan soiled the bed.

thoughts?
I don't for a second believe that Ethan turned the water on, or that Nathan 'bathing' Ethan was done as anything short of teaching Ethan 'a lesson' for soiling himself.

I think the scalding burns were the result of another punishment administered by Nathanael.

RoseWhite
05-21-2010, 06:41 PM
After looking at the picture and the apartment, I think you may be right. What I want to know is: if this pic was taken while he was with SS, WHO took it and WHY didn't they do something? I would have thought that the news would be all over the photo, imo.

There are a ton of WHYS in this story. WHY didn't SS do anything to stop this? She called her friend Jones multiple times according to the news article. WHY did Jones do nothing to find out what was going on? I don't even think she called SS back. I don't care how much I didn't like someone, if they left multiple messages crying, I would call back to see what was going on.

Why didn't neighbors report noises? You can't tell me that NS did what he did without screaming and yelling and banging. And I'm sure poor little Ethan cried his heart out. We have all lived in apartments. A person can't cough without you hearing it. People are going to be asking WHY for the rest of their lives.

As for NS trashing his jail cell, that is pretty typical behavior for prisoners to do. Hasn't he been in jail before?

The feces behavior (in reference to the abuse) is VERY typical of prison behavior. And I wouldn't be surprised if NS had trashed his prison cell in more ways than one.

God rest your soul, Ethan. I wish you had never been with those monsters. And that poor human reaction hadn't had you stay there. You were 4 years old and the world failed you. I pray that you are at peace.

~greeneyedgirl~
05-21-2010, 06:56 PM
I'm not convinced that was taken in Utah for two reasons. It was a photo posted on a FB site dedicated to his memory and the base of the door is not the same. I really hope that they wouldn't use a shot taken by that monster. Ruby linked to it first on the other thread because there were quite a few upset over the shirt, and it was since cropped. I'll see if I can find her post and if I can figure out which site it was that first posted the image (because now there are several) I'll message the person who posted it and ask if they know where it was taken. The red under his nose and the lips look like our little guy when he's had a cold. JMO, of course.

Considering that she hadn't seen Ethan since October I just don't see his Daddy putting him in a tee shirt that says that.

Brian5671
05-21-2010, 08:29 PM
Anyone thing that him crying for his "mommy" was actually his father's fiance back in VA who was more of a mother to him that SS ever was?
-
also, on the picture on the porch that shows the 1st signs of abuse, perhaps NS took the picture and that is why no one said anything?

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 08:48 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs554.snc3/30306_395052853219_504753219_4153142_274492_n.jpg


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31313548&op=2&o=global&view=global&subj=116369541732606&id=1161383951#!/photo.php?pid=4153142&op=2&o=global&view=global&subj=116369541732606&id=504753219&fbid=395052853219

annalyzer
05-21-2010, 09:07 PM
Anyone thing that him crying for his "mommy" was actually his father's fiance back in VA who was more of a mother to him that SS ever was?
-
also, on the picture on the porch that shows the 1st signs of abuse, perhaps NS took the picture and that is why no one said anything?

I thought it was him crying for his mom while mom's bf had him in the bedroom beating on him. (or whatever he was doing to him)

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 09:10 PM
http://www.headcovers.com/nimg/child_abuse_ribbon.jpghttp://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs603.snc3/31768_10150175286215232_879060231_12746215_1661619 _n.jpghttp://www.headcovers.com/nimg/child_abuse_ribbon.jpg

http://www.zazzle.ca/blue_ribbon_flower_child_abuse_prevention_stickers-217072658321472298
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=5469466&op=1&o=all&view=all&subj=116369541732606&aid=-1&oid=116369541732606&id=612871494

nursebeeme
05-21-2010, 09:16 PM
Ethan, you little, cute, adorable man! I am still thinking of you and know you are safe now. I keep checking in to make sure the people who hurt you are punished.

RubyRed
05-21-2010, 09:29 PM
Anyone thing that him crying for his "mommy" was actually his father's fiance back in VA who was more of a mother to him that SS ever was?
-
also, on the picture on the porch that shows the 1st signs of abuse, perhaps NS took the picture and that is why no one said anything?

I'll bet anything he did not cry for that POS. More than likely cried for his Dad or like you say the fiancee.

Miss Justice
05-21-2010, 09:58 PM
I feel as though Ethan's eye also looks swollen and a bit bruised in that photo. :sick:

What a precious boy.

AmandaReckonwith
05-22-2010, 12:10 AM
(Just a little reminder because) I added a few vids and pics tonight.

Case archive album:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Ethan%20Stacy/

Jules_SA
05-22-2010, 03:11 AM
Calliope... I promise you if you blow up the picture it is taken by the same door. You can see the same paint chips..
all of the trim is the same... the door.. the door jam... it's just a different angle.

I have no clue where this photo came from ... I would guess that SS posted
it on her facebook and somone took it off.

If I recall correctly, I believe I read somewhere that a neighbor had taken this pic and posted it to a FB site in Memory of Ethan?

monkeymama
05-22-2010, 04:17 AM
I broke down a bit today. I heard my two year old in his room saying "mama, hep" (mama help) so I go in there to find that he has crawled up on the top bunk. I held out my hands and he jumped right to me. I thought, "wow, this little guy really trusts me". I never had a thought like that before Ethan. It just made me so sad that he didn't have anyone to trust in his last hours.

Calliope
05-22-2010, 09:08 AM
Considering that she hadn't seen Ethan since October I just don't see his Daddy putting him in a tee shirt that says that.

I don't either. No telling when that pic was taken, but the bottom of the door in the photo has a metal plate and the one at the apartment in Utah doesn't. I doubt I can do it today, but I'll try to track down who originally posted that photo and where they got it from.

Calliope
05-22-2010, 09:24 AM
If I recall correctly, I believe I read somewhere that a neighbor had taken this pic and posted it to a FB site in Memory of Ethan?

I think you're right. The photo wasn't taken in front of NS/SS's door, but probably at the complex somewhere. I found the person who posted it originally, and she is from Utah but has her facebook set to private and there is no way to message her. I noted some people have asked her to clarify where the photo was taken and/or how she obtained it, and she's not answered. So I take back what I posted earlier. This was most likely taken in Layton within days of his murder :(

Vegas Bride
05-22-2010, 09:51 AM
http://www.abc4.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=97932@ktvx.web.entriq.net&navCatId=5

Forgive me if this has already been posted.
abc4 interviewed Joe and has a 3 part video interview with him, this link takes you to the third one but on the left hand side you can also click on # 1 & 2.

This case continues to haunt me.
Here where I live some plans are made to have a balloon release next Weds and I'm working at having a toy donation done for the local Womans Shelter, the women who usually go to the shelter also have children and I've found out that they are in need for items there for the children. This will be a way to honor Ethan by remembering there are other children who also need us.
IMO it does not matter which state we all live in, every community has a need and we can all do something to make a difference for the children there.

VB

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 02:47 PM
eyes4crime. Thank you for updating the time line. while it is still so hard to read we need to keep facts straight/sorted and the timeline is a great help.

This just occured to me. I wonder if Nathans attempt at putting Ethan in the tub was to 'revive' him and he was possibly alive but not conscience then.... or they used the hot water to try and warm him up after his passing?
As God awful as that is to consider, I wonder why NS would even attempt to give Ethan a bath. Just seems odd. Not a job I would think of a male to do. I also can't see NS not leaving the cleaning up if Ethan soiled the bed.

thoughts?

BBM

MOO Ethan was not concious (or his hands were tied up) because there is no mention of his hands being burned. A child that was alert would put his hands in the tub to try and raise up out of the water. An alert child would also jump out if they had turned the hot h2o up on their own. AND the burns would not have had a chance to be so extensive. Kids who accidentally get burned usually only have thier toes/feet burned. Ethan was placed into scalding water. IF it was burns from the tub... I have my doubtsabout that but it would be too gory to elaborate. I also feel like maybe he was drowned perhaps and SS gave the excuse of forcing fliuds to account for the fact that she KNEW fluid would be found in his lungs (or evicence of a drowning) at autopsy... IMO MOST of the stories she gave about the "abuse" were a coverup. I feel like Ethan was not alive for a couple of days before they were able to get the stories straight and try and dispose of him. SS was trying to hide that fact from LE...
just my opinion tho...

Jules_SA
05-22-2010, 03:31 PM
I think you're right. The photo wasn't taken in front of NS/SS's door, but probably at the complex somewhere. I found the person who posted it originally, and she is from Utah but has her facebook set to private and there is no way to message her. I noted some people have asked her to clarify where the photo was taken and/or how she obtained it, and she's not answered. So I take back what I posted earlier. This was most likely taken in Layton within days of his murder :(

IMO, the neighbor may have taken that pic as part of her own evidence. Perhaps she suspected something was up. Or he just looked cute (what a sweetie!!!). Either way, it's not "usual" for a stranger to take a pic of someone else's child. If she's not responding to questions, I'd bet that the authorities have got hold of her and have asked her to bear witness to the pic, etc etc etc. She's possibly not allowed to respond at this point?
Hate that t-shirt.

This case is so very hard to process, on an emotional level. But the fact that Ethan endured so much hurt and torment, makes me more determined to stick with this and also make sure that justice is served. He's a beautiful, special and precious little angel. And I know, for one, my own dear Mom must have been one of those waiting in Heaven to welcome him with open arms. I can honestly say that Ethan's sad case has made me give even more hugs to my four-year-old daughter; it's made me listen to her closer; and be so very thankful for her precious life.

Ethan deserved nothing less than that either.

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 04:02 PM
Here is a little info on intentional vs. accidental burns:

Scalding Burns

One common type of burn inflicted on a child is caused by immersing the victim in hot water. A telltale sign of this type of crime is a "waterline," a distinct border showing where the injury ends.

The injury will have very little tapering near the edges, indicating the child was held in place. Any child who is subjected to hot water will thrash about in an effort to escape the pain.

Not only would a child thrash, but also he would be likely to do his best to protect himself. This reflexive protection mechanism would lead to "sparing."

If the legs were forced into hot water, the child would have folded his legs, protecting the area behind his knees. "These sparing actions prevent burning within the body creases, causing a striped configuration of burned and unburned zones, or a zebra pattern," writes Charles Swanson in the book "Criminal Investigation."

Common Sense

In general, some good common sense questions will assist you in determining whether a burn injury is intentional or accidental.

If the item was heated, how long did it take to heat and what were the caretaker and child doing during this time?

Det. Joseph Petrocelli is a 20-year veteran of New Jersey law enforcement. You can comment on this article, suggest other topics, or reach the author by e-mailing the editor at editor@PoliceMag.com.

Immersion Burn Patterns

Deliberate immersion burns result in injury patterns that you should learn to identify.

Doughnut pattern on the buttocks. When a child accidentally falls into hot water, the immediate reaction is to thrash about. In a deliberate immersion, the child is often held down with his buttocks in contact with the bottom of the container, sparing that portion of the buttocks from injury.

Waterlines. If a child is held in place, there will be a sharp and distinct line of injury. A child who accidentally falls into hot water will splash about, causing irregular injury patterns.

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Patrol/Articles/2009/08/Child-Burn-Investigations.aspx

eyes4crime
05-22-2010, 04:57 PM
Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

suzyq211
05-22-2010, 06:23 PM
Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

No, that just doesnt cut the mustard!

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 06:27 PM
Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.

Common sense tells me Ethan did not just turn on the hot water and then continue to sit in it. If he was burned by hot water he was forcibly placed in it by NS and held there while he struggled. I can't believe if that was the case no one heard his screams! (this was allegedly done while SS was at the store on the 7th?) Do we know the approx time? I think it was evening... somebody had to of heard him! MOO

RubyRed
05-22-2010, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they had his mouth covered so he couldn't scream.

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 06:29 PM
No, that just doesnt cut the mustard!

MOO NS was trying to rewarm Ethan's lifeless body... while SS was at WalMart.
Sorry I know that sounds really bad!

Vegas Bride
05-22-2010, 06:32 PM
Taken from the time-line - seems to be some pattern but for the life of me I can't figure out how this would happen. If Ethan was burnt I highly doubt it was while he was taking a bath. OOOuch - I can't stand to think of the pain a 4yo would have from any burn. It's beyond what I can think of. moo

May 7th - Friday
..Stephanie, while shopping at Walmart, receives a cell phone call from Nate informing her Ethan is badly burned on hands, feet, and legs up to buttox area from running water in bath (claims Ethan turned on hot water).
..Stephanie returns to find human feces in child's mouth.
..In attempt to remove feces, Stephanie brushes Ethan's teeth until his gums bleed.


I'm highly suspicous of anything S has said.
IMO she has come up with this story as a way to distance herself.
She was at Walmart, so she could not be held accountable. (she's thinking this will save her)
We do not know if she was in the apartment or somewhere else when abuse happened but my money is on her being there.

In reading what she told the police, she sure has given a lot of details, reminds me of someone who's telling a lie and they add in a lot of detail that's not asked for.

VB

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 06:34 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they had his mouth covered so he couldn't scream.
IMO one person could not do both without help.
IF they were burning him in scalding water... how did one of them not get burned too? if they were that close to a struggling toddler holding him down and keeping his mouth covered? naked kids are also slippery... maybe they left him clothed? the clothing would have continued to burn until the water cooled off ....
GAH!

RubyRed
05-22-2010, 06:39 PM
IMO one person could not do both without help.
IF they were burning him in scalding water... how did one of them not get burned too? if they were that close to a struggling toddler holding him down and keeping his mouth covered? naked kids are also slippery... maybe they left him clothed? the clothing would have continued to burn until the water cooled off ....
GAH!

I am thinking more along the lines of duct tape or something similar. We know they left him in his bedroom while they went to get married. They must have done something so that he would not scream for help.

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 06:45 PM
I am thinking more along the lines of duct tape or something similar. We know they left him in his bedroom while they went to get married. They must have done something so that he would not scream for help.

Ahh HAA! You are very good! I had NOT thought of that! maybe that's why Ethan's lips were SOOO swollen in that pic with NS?

ella971
05-22-2010, 07:01 PM
Common sense tells me Ethan did not just turn on the hot water and then continue to sit in it. If he was burned by hot water he was forcibly placed in it by NS and held there while he struggled. I can't believe if that was the case no one heard his screams! (this was allegedly done while SS was at the store on the 7th?) Do we know the approx time? I think it was evening... somebody had to of heard him! MOO

This is hard to type but no one ever heard my screams. If they did they did nothing to help me.

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 07:06 PM
This is hard to type but no one ever heard my screams. If they did they did nothing to help me.

AWW I AM SO SORRY FOR YOU! :hug: but you are so right! Selective hearing- not wanting to get involved.

I know it's hard to do but I appreciate your input as someone who has been there... I wish you hadn't tho...

RubyRed
05-22-2010, 07:12 PM
This is hard to type but no one ever heard my screams. If they did they did nothing to help me.

((((( Hugs ))))) Had I heard your screams, I would have helped.

ella971
05-22-2010, 07:13 PM
AWW I AM SO SORRY FOR YOU! :hug: but you are so right! Selective hearing- not wanting to get involved.

I know it's hard to do but I appreciate your input as someone who has been there... I wish you hadn't tho...

Thank You. I'm alive and have a wonderful daughter who is almost 13 and I gave her all the love I always wanted to have. I was a lucky one that lived.

BeanE
05-22-2010, 07:37 PM
Common sense tells me Ethan did not just turn on the hot water and then continue to sit in it.

If he was burned by hot water he was forcibly placed in it by NS and held there while he struggled. I can't believe if that was the case no one heard his screams! (this was allegedly done while SS was at the store on the 7th?) Do we know the approx time? I think it was evening... somebody had to of heard him! MOO

BBM. Agreed!!!!! No human being turns on the hot water and sits there until their feet, legs, and buttocks are *badly* burned. To get *badly* burned, they have to be *unable* to move - either restrained, or they are completely unconscious beyond the point of having a normal pain reaction, or they are deceased.

BeanE
05-22-2010, 07:38 PM
MOO NS was trying to rewarm Ethan's lifeless body... while SS was at WalMart.
Sorry I know that sounds really bad!

I've thought of that too, gngr.

gngr~snap
05-22-2010, 08:00 PM
I've thought of that too, gngr.

warning before you read...
I left out the actual words that are defined here. I'm afraid the definition tells enough of the story.

IMHO the feces in his mouth was actually this...
-A formation of gases enters the abdomen which forces liquids and feces out of the body.... bowels releasing either air or fluid through the mouth,Because Ethan was being moved about

The swollen face and lips were this... perhaps in addition to a beating
-The gases also enter the neck and face, causing swelling of the mouth, lips, and tongue.and SS photgraphed this

and the "burns" she reported was this...
-It is first observed by the appearance of fluidfilled
blisters on the skin and skin slippage where
large sheets of skin slough off the indeed not scalding by hot water at all

Any medical examiner knows this happens and can tie it in to SS reports of "abuse" by NS The timeline of the reported incidents and when they occured. She was almost exact and this is quite obvious if you look at the timeline from May 9th backwards. This is MOO and maybe she really didn't know her baby had expired.

If you would like further information you can go here.

WARNING!
Very graphic pics. NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!
www.vschousboe.com/classes/forensics/ppts/etod.ppt

http://pages.newtown.k12.ct.us/~ndmc/Articles/beyond%20grave.pdf

http://funeralstories.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/purging/

Adrienne37
05-22-2010, 08:13 PM
Gngrsnap - you may be right about your theory but IMO, I believe the burns came from being held under the hot water and the feces in his mouth was the result of NS putting it there. It honestly wouldn't surprise me to learn that NS held that baby down and put the feces in his mouth for some sick reason. Maybe Ethan's screaming from the burns frustrated and annoyed him to the point that he was "washing his mouth out with soap" type situation. I think NS is evil enough to do just that.

Jeez, maybe I just better go with your post, at least that might be considered a natural part of the death cycle.

ella971
05-22-2010, 08:19 PM
Thank God I never had feces in my mouth however my abuser loved taking a bar of soap and ramming into my mouth.I may have brushed my own gums till they bled. This case has really taken me back to places that I have never really spoken about. I would do anything for any child.Ethan was a beautiful little trusting boy. I'm so sick that that took him from this world.

smart blonde
05-22-2010, 08:58 PM
Here's what I think happened, regarding being scalded/ burned by the water in the bathtub...

I think that Ethan lost control of his bowels, during or just after one of the beatings that Nathanael administered.

I think that when Nathanael discovered that Ethan had soiled himself, and the bed, it further enraged Nathanael.

Then Nathanael, angry beyond measure, and wanting to teach Ethan 'a lesson', turned the hot water only on in the bathtub.

While the tub was filling with scalding water, Nathanael returned to Ethan's room, and while reaching down to scoop Ethan up to take to the bathroom, accidentally smeared some of Ethan's excrement on himself.

Having Ethan's feces on him caused him to scoop up a handful of feces and shove the feces in Ethan's mouth.

Then Nathanael picked up Ethan, and, (ironically), carrying Ethan in his arms the same way a groom would carry a bride over a threshold, he dropped Ethan into the tub of scalding hot water. (I believe this is how NS carried Ethan, because of the burn patterns on Ethan's body- i.e., hands, feet and back of legs up to buttocks- these would be the areas of Ethans body to touch the hot water first).
After reading everyone's thoughts, I still think the post above is the likeliest scenario, and I can really see it in my 'mind's eye'.

I would like to add to it though, that this would also account for any lack of screaming on Ethan's part, as it would be difficult to yell out with a mouth full of feces. The feces in the mouth would effectively work the same as a gag, in not permitting much noise.

I also believe that at the time of the 'bathtub/ burning abuse', Ethan was probably barely conscious, which explains his losing control of his bowels to begin with.

NOTE: To my post above, I also added the word 'hands' in regards to burn patterns, as leaving the word out was just an oversight when initially posted.

Calliope
05-22-2010, 09:14 PM
IMO, the neighbor may have taken that pic as part of her own evidence. Perhaps she suspected something was up. Or he just looked cute (what a sweetie!!!). Either way, it's not "usual" for a stranger to take a pic of someone else's child. If she's not responding to questions, I'd bet that the authorities have got hold of her and have asked her to bear witness to the pic, etc etc etc. She's possibly not allowed to respond at this point?
Hate that t-shirt.

(respectfully snipped)
Maybe so, but I'm just disturbed that if that was taken in Layton, someone would think it appropriate to post on his memorial FB page.