View Full Version : OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #7
Salem
06-09-2010, 10:03 AM
Please continue here.
Part #5
Please continue here.
Part #1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106082)
Part #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106157)
Part #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106178)
Part #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106209)
If you haven't read the rules or TOS lately, now might be a good time to do so. The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159)
Once again, Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. We do not sleuth family until we are given a reason to do so. No one in this case has been named a POI. Further sleuthing, disparaging comments, and speculation about family involvement will not be tolerated. Anyone continuing to do so will be given a time out. THIS IS THE FINAL WARNING.
It is easy to blame the family. And yes, it is important to look there. But at this point, LE has given us no reason to do so. So for now, get out of your "sleuthing comfort zone". There are dozens of other avenues to explore.
Also, we NEVER sleuth minors. You may link to Facebook pages, but do not post direct quotes. And only link to those directly involved in the case.
As always, if you have any questions, please ask. You can PM a moderator, or check the Threadiquette thread that is a sticky at the top of the forum. (Threadiquette- Questions about rules welcome here - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97021))
Please do not go off-topic. For example, we had an issue in the last thread with posters picking apart Kyron's science project, or the t-shirt he is wearing. That is off-topic unless you can directly tie it to his disappearance. Hope that's clear.
Reminder: if you have a tip, not matter how small you think it is, please call the tip line at 503-261-2847. If the tip line is answered by automated response, your tip will be heard!!! 503-261-2847
JBean
06-09-2010, 09:01 PM
continue here please
previous thread:
OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:02 PM
Okay, now you're sleuthin' ! The above is fascinating.
Let me think about it a little.
The first impression I have is that clearly, the family statement issued today was likely not written by the family. Secondly, the family has had legal counsel since early stages...IMO
...to be continued.
Emma... here's what I think.
I think that the family backed out right before the conference today at noon, and that left the poor liaison guy to come up with a statement for them. The "family message" that he relayed is almost verbatim what Gates has been saying for almost a week now. What kinda made me wonder about it was when the liaison guy said, "This is from the family, in their own words." Odd.
I think that's why Gates was kinda flustered--almost agitated--at the noon presser.
He had settled down by the four presser and by then I think he actually thought that they had pulled it off (the "family" message).
Except for that intel email, I don't think that we've yet heard from Terri and Kaine.
Compare Kaine's email to what was read at the conference. Apples and oranges. What was read at the conference was a hastily constructed message that strongly resembled what Gates has been saying since Day 2.
jenniferst
06-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Ok, so if he was dropped off at 8:45 who saw him at 8:15????:waitasec:
I would think that the dad meant 'dropped off' as in parted ways. Even if I took my son to school and stayed for an hour or half-hour, I would still refer to it as having dropped him off at school. The father's email was short and to the point. His point seemed to be that they needed the info about his son out there- but not wanting people talking to the media. He did not want to send a two page email. Saying dropped off is easier than 'my wife drove him to school to attend the science fair. After taking pictures and looking at projects they parted ways in the hall at 8:45 or so'
lalalemon
06-09-2010, 09:04 PM
In what vain did they mention the Kim and Boekhle cases in the presser? I appear to have missed that!
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleuthy sleutherson
What email?
Post #867 last thread.
I posted an e-mail I found apparently by Kyron's Dad. Link to it
http://ackerlaw.com/blog
Emma Peel
06-09-2010, 09:07 PM
Emma... here's what I think.
I think that the family backed out right before the conference today at noon, and that left the poor liaison guy to come up with a statement for them. The "family message" that he relayed is almost verbatim what Gates has been saying for almost a week now. What kinda made me wonder about it was when the liaison guy said, "This is from the family, in their own words." Odd.
I think that's why Gates was kinda flustered--almost agitated--at the noon presser.
He had settled down by the four presser and by then I think he (theactually thought that they had pulled it off "family" message).
Except for that intel email, I don't think that we've yet heard from Terri and Kaine.
Compare Kaine's email to what was read at the conference. Apples and oranges. What was read at the conference was a hastily constructed message that strongly resembled what Gates has been saying since Day 2.
The two statements are completely incongruous.
I'm still thinking about it.
I'm now willing, just in case that e-mail is authentic, to look at Presser statement for code. I don't think they'd have thrown a presser statement "from the family" together at the last second. That presser statement is just totally weird. Especially considering the e-mail...
Caveat: not sure what we're looking at is the real thing. We'll be able to tell if it's removed from that website soon.
Please somebody take a screen shot of the email...I have to do dinner here.
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 09:07 PM
With those two cases, it makes it sound as if LE was trying to point media in direction of Kyron being lost due to wandering off. I guess they showed one where people were saved and one where he was not.
IMO, they have not cleared anyone that I know of. I am not assuming anyone is claered unless LE says so, nor am I assuming anyone is a POI unless they say so. But of course, that only applies if this is a criminal investigation...
Calliope
06-09-2010, 09:08 PM
how can we confirm that is the dad's email?
It's posted on a law firm's website.
Acker & Associates P.C. provides general legal services with an emphasis on business law, litigation/trials, and estate planning/administration
I'm thinking Intel is a client.
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:08 PM
Post #867 last thread.
I posted an e-mail I found apparently by Kyron's Dad. Link to it
http://ackerlaw.com/blog
Awesome find, Ruby.
lalalemon
06-09-2010, 09:09 PM
With those two cases, it makes it sound as if LE was trying to point media in direction of Kyron being lost due to wandering off. I guess they showed one where people were saved and one where he was not.
IMO, they have not cleared anyone that I know of. I am not assuming anyone is claered unless LE says so, nor am I assuming anyone is a POI unless they say so. But of course, that only applies if this is a criminal investigation...
But why did they even mention those two cases at all? bit baffled by this!
CharlestonGal
06-09-2010, 09:10 PM
I don't think that statement was written by the family either. The pronouns are all third person.
Why does this matter, you ask? I, for one, am a little disturbed that there are hundreds of people putting their own safety at risk to search for this little boy and the family can't even be bothered to personally say thank you and express a little appreciation? Not even once in 125 hours?
All I know is, my mama sure didn't raise me that way.
This may be out there, but since we have nothing else...
-We haven't really heard from Kyrons teachers, relative, family friends like we have in other cases, and we are 6 days in.
-The "Family Statement" is really just a statement on behalf of the family, I'm doubting they wrote it.
-The email from Kyron's dad to Intel specifically says not to speak to the media.
-2 PC's a day with no new info.
-----
Here is a theory: They know who has Kyron, or have been contacted by someone who says they have Kyron. They are hiding information about Kyron and don't want people talking about him in order to communicate with the abductor about Kyron himself. Listening to the family statement, there was an emotional break that almost separated the "resources out there to help. Please don’t stop." from the rest of the statement...almost like a plea to the abductor. Maybe he is threatening to harm the child because he thinks he has gotten in too deep? There was also a point in the statement where it was very clear that the focus needed to be kept on Kyron, not anything else. It reminded me a lot about telling your kidnapper information about yourself to humanize you to the perp. Specifically and the end the spokesperson didn't want the attention on the parents. Could it be that Kyron was taken by someone who hates the parents, and any sort of torment/anguish/emotion will lead the kidnapper to act out more? Almost as if the statement WAS for the kidnapper, as in "We are thinking about Kyron only, we don't care about the parents, this is about a little boy - not the people you hate"
tfrohning
06-09-2010, 09:12 PM
I don't know if this post...
Portland boy’s disappearance stirs memories of ’78 abduction
Second-grader taken from West Gresham School was found, went on to become mother of two
http://www.theoutlookonline.com/news/story.php?story_id=127604789675353300
snip
In Stacie’s case, she was lured to a car by a stranger who met her in the hall at West Gresham as she was headed to the restroom. The man, tall and brown-haired, told her he had some things in his car and that the school principal said she could help.
Calliope
06-09-2010, 09:12 PM
In what vain did they mention the Kim and Boekhle cases in the presser? I appear to have missed that!
In response to a question as to how it came about that Oregon coordinates search and rescue units from all over the state. He noted that in the Kim case, they came together and went over the way the searches were done, and what was lacking, etc. He mentioned the search for the child too, but he went missing before Kim.
Was just looking around online on info about Samuel,his Dad was or is an engineer,also.
There are over 8000 Intel employees in Washington County (Intel's highest concentration of people is in Oregon). There are scads of hi tech employers here; "everyone" is an engineer. :)
A....they brought up TWO old cases and that is when I tried to clue in a bit on the idea of a pointed message kind of thing.
BTW....what is the Kim case anyway.....need something a bit more specific than that to search/Google.
So, they brought up one case where they found everyone (one no longer alive), and one case where they never found a clue about the missing child. More puzzle pieces, just no frame or picture to match them with yet.
The two cases were brought up as examples of why the Oregon SAR policy changed statewide. Those two cases became famous for agencies stepping on and over each other, with time lost for survivors. I posted about this before but am having trouble understanding how to get my own old posts.
The Kim family case was sort of the last straw with disjointed search efforts and they were explaining why all these people are coming in from all over the state.
When I hear "folks" I think "old folks" or parents.
It is a commonly used colloquialism around here. I'm college ejumacated and still use it. :blushing:
Secondly, the family has had legal counsel since early stages...IMO
My take on it is that Kaine was contacting Intel's legal to keep media from speaking with Intel employees.. a reasonable use of resources in my thinking.
gogrannypop
06-09-2010, 09:14 PM
I honestly do not know what to think. This is very convoluted.
rosiebean
06-09-2010, 09:14 PM
I don't think that statement was written by the family either. The pronouns are all third person.
Why does this matter, you ask? I, for one, am a little disturbed that there are hundreds of people putting their own safety at risk to search for this little boy and the family can't even be bothered to personally say thank you and express a little appreciation? Not even once in 125 hours?
All I know is, my mama sure didn't raise me that way.
FWIW, we have no idea if the family has not thanked SAR teams through other communications. Just because they don't do so through the media does not mean they have not conveyed their thanks. IMO.
CharlestonGal
06-09-2010, 09:16 PM
Kyron's dad is not an engineer. He is a Business Enterprise Architect. He's in management, not engineering. Either way, I don't believe he participated in writing that "family statement" for the media. I think LE threw it together at the last minute because the family didn't write one at all.
MOO
lalalemon
06-09-2010, 09:16 PM
In response to a question as to how it came about that Oregon coordinates search and rescue units from all over the state. He noted that in the Kim case, they came together and went over the way the searches were done, and what was lacking, etc. He mentioned the search for the child too, but he went missing before Kim.
Aaaah I see, that makes more sense now, thanks Calliope!
I'm clocking out for the night folks... incredibly late in my part of the world!
Hoping soooooo much to wake up and here that our little guy is found safe and well!
Sweet dreams to you all!
Wendy101
06-09-2010, 09:16 PM
OK, I'm lost.. someone asked me for the link to the pictures that showed Kyrons artwork, as far as I know, there were 2 peices released. Does anyone have that link handy?
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 09:17 PM
I just don't see kidnapping with this desperate level of ground searching...I honestly think they do not know if this is an abduction or a missing -in- the- wilderness case.
Calliope
06-09-2010, 09:18 PM
I don't think that statement was written by the family either. The pronouns are all third person.
Why does this matter, you ask? I, for one, am a little disturbed that there are hundreds of people putting their own safety at risk to search for this little boy and the family can't even be bothered to personally say thank you and express a little appreciation? Not even once in 125 hours?
All I know is, my mama sure didn't raise me that way.
Aunt issued a statement to the press on behalf of the family expressing their appreciation.
liz b.
06-09-2010, 09:19 PM
At the PC :
LE mentioned the Boekhle case, in which a little boy went missing,and was never found. They also mentioned the Kim case. The Kims were located because of their cell phone pings.
I think someone contacted either the family or LE, and demanded money,saying that they had Kyron. LE traced their cell phone pings to the area that they are now frantically searching,the wooded area. If the person (s) who did this were in a clearing in the woods they would have enough bars to make a call,or calls.
It explains the silence of the family ; I wouldn't be speaking out at a PC in that situation. It also could explain the cut off of discussion about the sequence of events that morning at school. I always thought that the person who saw Kyron around 9 :00 also saw him leaving with someone. Could have been a babysitter and boyfriend... someone he knew and trusted.
Could be kidnapping and extortion. Hope Kyron is okay.
Calliope
06-09-2010, 09:20 PM
I just don't see kidnapping with this desperate level of ground searching...I honestly think they do not know if this is an abduction or a missing -in- the- wilderness case.
If this was a kidnapping, maybe they have indicated they left him somewhere out there.
Kimster
06-09-2010, 09:21 PM
Media/pictures/videos thread - no discussion: OR Kyron Horman - Portland, Oregon MEDIA AND IMAGES LINKS - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
JustToSeeYouSmile
06-09-2010, 09:21 PM
In what vain did they mention the Kim and Boekhle cases in the presser? I appear to have missed that!
Along the lines of learning from past searches.
Just bringing articles like this over again from earlier, to demonstrate.
http://www.craterlakeinstitute.com/crater-lake-news/oregon-searches.htm
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:22 PM
Aunt issued a statement to the press on behalf of the family expressing their appreciation.
Desiree's sister... yeah. But we've still not heard from the people who had physical custody of Kyron on the date that he went missing.
Desiree's also talked on the phone to media.
Wise Old Owl
06-09-2010, 09:22 PM
The two statements are completely incongruous.
I'm still thinking about it.
I'm now willing, just in case that e-mail is authentic, to look at Presser statement for code. I don't think they'd have thrown a presser statement "from the family" together at the last second. That presser statement is just totally weird. Especially considering the e-mail...
Caveat: not sure what we're looking at is the real thing. We'll be able to tell if it's removed from that website soon.
Please somebody take a screen shot of the email...I have to do dinner here.
I've already done some checking on that e-mail. www . ackerlaw. com (take out the spaces) is the site the email comes from. It is law firm site. The email is contained in the "blog" section (on the left hand side). I'm thinking either one (or more) of the atty's are personal friends with dad or they represent him and/or intel. I think it is authentic.
Check for yourself - would appreciate anyone else's thoughts.
This may be out there, but since we have nothing else...
-We haven't really heard from Kyrons teachers, relative, family friends like we have in other cases, and we are 6 days in.
-The "Family Statement" is really just a statement on behalf of the family, I'm doubting they wrote it.
-The email from Kyron's dad to Intel specifically says not to speak to the media.
-2 PC's a day with no new info.
-----
Here is a theory: They know who has Kyron, or have been contacted by someone who says they have Kyron. They are hiding information about Kyron and don't want people talking about him in order to communicate with the abductor about Kyron himself. Listening to the family statement, there was an emotional break that almost separated the "resources out there to help. Please don’t stop." from the rest of the statement...almost like a plea to the abductor. Maybe he is threatening to harm the child because he thinks he has gotten in too deep? There was also a point in the statement where it was very clear that the focus needed to be kept on Kyron, not anything else. It reminded me a lot about telling your kidnapper information about yourself to humanize you to the perp. Specifically and the end the spokesperson didn't want the attention on the parents. Could it be that Kyron was taken by someone who hates the parents, and any sort of torment/anguish/emotion will lead the kidnapper to act out more? Almost as if the statement WAS for the kidnapper, as in "We are thinking about Kyron only, we don't care about the parents, this is about a little boy - not the people you hate"
Took the dog for a walk and decided to add:
- They wont confirm last sightings b/c maybe someone DID see Kyron with someone suspicious and LE doesn't want the perp to know, reinforcing the "your not in too deep yet" theory.
- They don't want community involvement and school security which would give this a more urgent energy, also reinforcing the "your not in too deep yet"
- Wanting to control media for same reasons
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 09:23 PM
Praying for you Kyron. Where are you little guy???
raeann
06-09-2010, 09:24 PM
This may be out there, but since we have nothing else...
-We haven't really heard from Kyrons teachers, relative, family friends like we have in other cases, and we are 6 days in.
-The "Family Statement" is really just a statement on behalf of the family, I'm doubting they wrote it.
-The email from Kyron's dad to Intel specifically says not to speak to the media.
-2 PC's a day with no new info.
-----
Here is a theory: They know who has Kyron, or have been contacted by someone who says they have Kyron. They are hiding information about Kyron and don't want people talking about him in order to communicate with the abductor about Kyron himself. Listening to the family statement, there was an emotional break that almost separated the "resources out there to help. Please don’t stop." from the rest of the statement...almost like a plea to the abductor. Maybe he is threatening to harm the child because he thinks he has gotten in too deep? There was also a point in the statement where it was very clear that the focus needed to be kept on Kyron, not anything else. It reminded me a lot about telling your kidnapper information about yourself to humanize you to the perp. Specifically and the end the spokesperson didn't want the attention on the parents. Could it be that Kyron was taken by someone who hates the parents, and any sort of torment/anguish/emotion will lead the kidnapper to act out more? Almost as if the statement WAS for the kidnapper, as in "We are thinking about Kyron only, we don't care about the parents, this is about a little boy - not the people you hate"
BBM
This is getting more toward what I have been thinking...along with the purposeful release of the artwork and soccer picture. It is like they are skewing it toward a particular person or profile at least.
jmoo
CharlestonGal
06-09-2010, 09:25 PM
FWIW, we have no idea if the family has not thanked SAR teams through other communications. Just because they don't do so through the media does not mean they have not conveyed their thanks. IMO.
Maybe so, but it's not just the SAR teams. It's also the people manning tip lines, the people calling in tips, the people bringing supplies to the donation center, the people in the media who are keeping this story in the headlines, the people manning the first aid stations. There are many hundreds of people pulling together to find their child for them.
My opinion, but I do strongly feel that thanks are in order. I know I am not them, but I'd be on my knees in gratitude for so many people trying to find my child for me.
Voice4theSilent
06-09-2010, 09:27 PM
In response to a question as to how it came about that Oregon coordinates search and rescue units from all over the state. He noted that in the Kim case, they came together and went over the way the searches were done, and what was lacking, etc. He mentioned the search for the child too, but he went missing before Kim.
I found it interesting to learn that in the Kim case it wasn't the searchers that found the family; it was a couple of engineers who were able to pin point where they were due to their cell phone. (It would be interesting to know if Kyron had a cell phone.)
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 09:28 PM
Find Kyron: School parent reaches out to community
Over the weekend I heard from Kim B, a parent from Kyron's school, Skyline Elementary. She's well aware that the hills around the school are popular biking areas and she's hoping to enlist the eyes of people on bikes to find him:
"I know the cycling community is often in the NW Skyline Blvd, Newberry, Highway 30 and Forest Park area and wanted to see if it would be possible to circulate his face to as many people in the cycling community as possible that they might be on high alert for him when -- especially when in these areas."
As demonstrated by the many stolen bikes we've recovered, people traveling at bike pace tend to notice more of their surroundings. If you find yourself riding in these areas, keep a look out for Kyron.
http://bikeportland.org/2010/06/07/find-kyron-school-parent-reaches-out-to-community/
mamaeb
06-09-2010, 09:31 PM
Maybe so, but it's not just the SAR teams. It's also the people manning tip lines, the people calling in tips, the people bringing supplies to the donation center, the people in the media who are keeping this story in the headlines, the people manning the first aid stations. There are many hundreds of people pulling together to find their child for them.
My opinion, but I do strongly feel that thanks are in order. I know I am not them, but I'd be on my knees in gratitude for so many people trying to find my child for me.
I see what you are saying, BUT we have no idea what they are doing, and we are only the public, we are not any of the people you mentioned, we don't need thanks, it's not for us... so if it is done privately we may never know and don't really need to.
I see where many are going with the ransom theories and if this is correct I can see why the family is quiet and doing things behind closed doors.
Jaxson
06-09-2010, 09:31 PM
Kyron's dad is not an engineer. He is a Business Enterprise Architect. He's in management, not engineering. Either way, I don't believe he participated in writing that "family statement" for the media. I think LE threw it together at the last minute because the family didn't write one at all.
MOO
I think it is entirely possible for a single person to have written both. Kaine Hormon may speak to the legal department in one way (he is a manager and is 'taking charge') and to the general public and search and rescue teams, etc. with a more personable tone simply because he is not in control. Business tone versus how you might speak to friends and aquaintances.
cwiz24
06-09-2010, 09:32 PM
I've never been more unsure about a case this many days into it than I am with this one. Maybe it's the lack of information being given to the press, but it's like I'm feeling around in the dark and LE won't even light a match for me, let alone turn on a table lamp. They are holding everything very close to the chest on this one, even (IMO) writing the 'family' statement for them, managing very carefully the principal's words, holding pressers that basically say one big 'no comment', etc. My hinky meter is off the charts. I'm starting to think that LE knows who has Kyron, that they believe he is still alive, and that they don't want to tip him off. Is this whole SAR process a ruse to throw the perp off, to make him/her think that they aren't onto him? Are they being extra careful to not let on so that the perp doesn't kill Kyron?
I honestly feel like this is a plot of a movie and not at all like my typical Occam's Razor way of thinking about these cases. To be honest, I can't believe I just typed those words. There HAS to be a simpler explanation than that, but I'm not seeing it.
Amazon.com: Earl the Squirrel (9780670060191): Don Freeman: Books
Earl the Squirrel goes off on a hunt for acorns.
JustToSeeYouSmile
06-09-2010, 09:33 PM
Maybe so, but it's not just the SAR teams. It's also the people manning tip lines, the people calling in tips, the people bringing supplies to the donation center, the people in the media who are keeping this story in the headlines, the people manning the first aid stations. There are many hundreds of people pulling together to find their child for them.
My opinion, but I do strongly feel that thanks are in order. I know I am not them, but I'd be on my knees in gratitude for so many people trying to find my child for me.
I think I might be on my knees, sinking into utter dispair and unable to speak to anyone right now.
Please, for the sake of the mods who already have enough to do...and for the sake of Kyron who is the victim here- and by default that means his loved ones as well- can we please remain victim friendly?
nanny2five
06-09-2010, 09:33 PM
success with the avi, now if i could just catch up with yall. you guys move fast! i wish they would find him soon! prayers for Kyron and his family :)
rosiebean
06-09-2010, 09:34 PM
Maybe so, but it's not just the SAR teams. It's also the people manning tip lines, the people calling in tips, the people bringing supplies to the donation center, the people in the media who are keeping this story in the headlines, the people manning the first aid stations. There are many hundreds of people pulling together to find their child for them.
My opinion, but I do strongly feel that thanks are in order. I know I am not them, but I'd be on my knees in gratitude for so many people trying to find my child for me.
And you do not know that they are NOT on their knees in gratitude. The Mom's sister released a statement on behalf of the FAMILY that thanked people for helping, IIRC. For all we know (and I get this impression), LE has asked the immediate family not to release anything more than they have done through the sister and police spokesman (and LE are not acting frustrated with the family for not 'speaking out' more IMO). I am not going to judge them based on what I think they *should* do, because I realize there's so much going on behind closed doors that I know about. That's just me...I'm giving the family the benefit of the doubt right now, mostly because LE comes across...again, IMO...as being very supportive of them all. Maybe they're selfish jerks who don't give a heck about all of the people who are helping them. Maybe they're moved beyond belief but for reasons that I am not privy to, they are keeping a low profile. It will come out in the wash. If it turns out when more is known that they're insensitive jerks, then so be it. But IMO at this point, I don't have enough information to make that call.
MsFacetious
06-09-2010, 09:34 PM
If I remember correctly in the past Lillian Glass has said that lip licking is a sign of lying.
Gates has been doing that a lot lately. (Not a problem, I expect him to not be honest, just pointing it out.)
I do find the family statement to be weird and not written by them. I also think it fits in with the possible ransom theory which is still very suspicious to me.
Snoopster
06-09-2010, 09:35 PM
Find Kyron: School parent reaches out to community
Over the weekend I heard from Kim B, a parent from Kyron's school, Skyline Elementary. She's well aware that the hills around the school are popular biking areas and she's hoping to enlist the eyes of people on bikes to find him:
"I know the cycling community is often in the NW Skyline Blvd, Newberry, Highway 30 and Forest Park area and wanted to see if it would be possible to circulate his face to as many people in the cycling community as possible that they might be on high alert for him when -- especially when in these areas."
As demonstrated by the many stolen bikes we've recovered, people traveling at bike pace tend to notice more of their surroundings. If you find yourself riding in these areas, keep a look out for Kyron.
http://bikeportland.org/2010/06/07/find-kyron-school-parent-reaches-out-to-community/
You're on a roll, Ruby. Keep going!! :dance:
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 09:36 PM
It is more often volunteer searchers from community who find missing people than it is LE on organized searches, as far as I can tell...Kayleah, Casey, Nadia, Zoey, etc...I know they have the resources but looking at the areas that have been shown in photos so far, it would be so easy to miss not only Kyron, but especially any clues, clothing, a shoe, etc. I would like nothing better than to think LE knows what they are doing right now but I don't feel that, and I don't read any hidden meanings into the communications from LE or family. I think they are saying so little because there is little to say.
momtective
06-09-2010, 09:39 PM
I suggested over a year ago that GPS tracking chips be placed in children's apparel, shoes, hair accessories etc. by the manufacture. I wish one of the intel engineers would pick up on that...I really think this is an answer to finding abducted or lost children.
raeann
06-09-2010, 09:41 PM
For any locals or anyone else who might be interested:
http://theportlander.com/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-searchers-in-need-of-food-water/
Jaxson
06-09-2010, 09:41 PM
I suggested over a year ago that GPS tracking chips be placed in children's apparel, shoes, hair accessories etc. by the manufacture. I wish one of the intel engineers would pick up on that...I really think this is an answer to finding abducted or lost children.
My dog has one in case he gets lost....
cwiz24
06-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Anyone think Kyron's teacher's statement was a little strange too, especially the bolded portion?
“The students in Kyron’s class miss him terribly and we are all wishing for his safe return. As their teacher my goal has been to continue our familiar routine and to help my students stay focused on learning, what they need to know by the end of the year so that they are well prepared.”
Sort of a strange thing to emphasize at a time like this, no?
scandi
06-09-2010, 09:43 PM
This may be out there, but since we have nothing else...
-We haven't really heard from Kyrons teachers, relative, family friends like we have in other cases, and we are 6 days in.
-The "Family Statement" is really just a statement on behalf of the family, I'm doubting they wrote it.
-The email from Kyron's dad to Intel specifically says not to speak to the media.
-2 PC's a day with no new info.
-----
Here is a theory: They know who has Kyron, or have been contacted by someone who says they have Kyron. They are hiding information about Kyron and don't want people talking about him in order to communicate with the abductor about Kyron himself. Listening to the family statement, there was an emotional break that almost separated the "resources out there to help. Please don’t stop." from the rest of the statement...almost like a plea to the abductor. Maybe he is threatening to harm the child because he thinks he has gotten in too deep? There was also a point in the statement where it was very clear that the focus needed to be kept on Kyron, not anything else. It reminded me a lot about telling your kidnapper information about yourself to humanize you to the perp. Specifically and the end the spokesperson didn't want the attention on the parents. Could it be that Kyron was taken by someone who hates the parents, and any sort of torment/anguish/emotion will lead the kidnapper to act out more? Almost as if the statement WAS for the kidnapper, as in "We are thinking about Kyron only, we don't care about the parents, this is about a little boy - not the people you hate"
Boy, that is an impressive theory Lava, It sounds exactly like the FBI would play it if the circumstances were as you suggest. Hmmmmm
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:44 PM
If I remember correctly in the past Lillian Glass has said that lip licking is a sign of lying.
Gates has been doing that a lot lately. (Not a problem, I expect him to not be honest, just pointing it out.)
I do find the family statement to be weird and not written by them. I also think it fits in with the possible ransom theory which is still very suspicious to me.
Touching his nose and his face, too.
SuziQ
06-09-2010, 09:45 PM
Anyone think Kyron's teacher's statement was a little strange too, especially the bolded portion?
“The students in Kyron’s class miss him terribly and we are all wishing for his safe return. As their teacher my goal has been to continue our familiar routine and to help my students stay focused on learning, what they need to know by the end of the year so that they are well prepared.”
Sort of a strange thing to emphasize at a time like this, no?
ITA, I thought, Huh? Prepared for what?
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:46 PM
You're on a roll, Ruby. Keep going!! :dance:
Ruby is a treasure to this forum. Puts the latest right in the thread for us.
A true gem.
SoCalSleuth
06-09-2010, 09:46 PM
I am just throwing this out there as a remote possibility. What if Kyron was kidnapped for ransom--but it turns out they got the wrong kid or targeted the wrong family? What if after they made the initial ransom demand they discovered their error and haven't made further contact? Would explain alot.
LotsaLatte
06-09-2010, 09:47 PM
I don't think that statement was written by the family either. The pronouns are all third person.
Why does this matter, you ask? I, for one, am a little disturbed that there are hundreds of people putting their own safety at risk to search for this little boy and the family can't even be bothered to personally say thank you and express a little appreciation? Not even once in 125 hours?
All I know is, my mama sure didn't raise me that way.
I think that if my child was missing, I'd be going back and forth between catatonic and frantic/neurotic and then probably needing to be restrained and possibly knocked out. And in a big fog that would keep me in a state of tunnel vision. I don't think I'd be able to see or focus on stuff outside of my main goal to find my child and I know I wouldn't have the capacity to think like I normally do. KWIM?
MsFacetious
06-09-2010, 09:49 PM
So, I've adjusted the timeline to reflect what we've learned from the press conferences today:
8:00 AM: Can't comment.
8:45 AM: Dunno.
9:00 AM: Absolutely can't comment.
10:00 AM: I'd tell ya if I could.
This is one of the reasons I never went into photo journalism and stuck with annoying weddings and such. I am far too sarcastic and my frustration level would have boiled over by now. Nothing is funny about this case... but you can only take so much before you say something you shouldn't! :innocent:
Me: Do you think he wandered away?
LE: I can't comment on that.
Me: Do you think he was taken from the school?
LE: I can't answer that.
Me: Do you have any suspects?
LE: I can't talk about that.
Me: Do you think aliens beamed him up to their space craft?
LE: I can't....huh? :waitasec:
I would bet, that his answer would still be "I can't answer that." Maybe if we were lucky it would be "we are reasonably sure that didn't occur" or "we haven't eliminated anything at this point."
Or, he would just laugh and move on. He knows everyone is frustrated and he has a sense of humor. :innocent:
scandi
06-09-2010, 09:50 PM
I see what you are saying, BUT we have no idea what they are doing, and we are only the public, we are not any of the people you mentioned, we don't need thanks, it's not for us... so if it is done privately we may never know and don't really need to.
I see where many are going with the ransom theories and if this is correct I can see why the family is quiet and doing things behind closed doors.
Oh Mamaeb, Your froggie photo is absolutely precious. xox
cwiz24
06-09-2010, 09:51 PM
Feel like I'm grasping at straws here, but with really nothing to 'sleuth', speculation is all we have here...
I just thought of this, but why are they ramping up SAR efforts six days into this situation? Wouldn't the largest biggest SAR push normally happen right away, with scaling back beginning to happen at this point? This investigation seems to be going the opposite way. Perhaps they think that if he IS alive in the woods, he doesn't have long to live and they have to hurry and find him. I just thought the progression of effort here was unlike other searches I've read about.
Just thinking out loud...
eyes4crime
06-09-2010, 09:51 PM
I've already done some checking on that e-mail. www . ackerlaw. com (take out the spaces) is the site the email comes from. It is law firm site. The email is contained in the "blog" section (on the left hand side). I'm thinking either one (or more) of the atty's are personal friends with dad or they represent him and/or intel. I think it is authentic.
Check for yourself - would appreciate anyone else's thoughts.
I pulled up the law firm in Oregon - they are all over the country. Seems perfectly legitimate and very professional to me, and if not, the person will have plenty of lawyers to answer to.
I have no need to hear from the family - I also think they are very smart for staying out of the media and wanting the focus to be on their missing son. And who knows what their emotional state is at this time - this is day 6, so my guess is that I would be in bed with the covers pulled over my head exhausted and hysterical with worry. They need to to whatever it is that makes them functional for LE and finding their son. all my opinion and that stuff.
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:52 PM
Someone asked about Kyron's artwork...here it is.
http://www.kptv.com/slideshow/news/23822528/detail.html
GourmetSoy
06-09-2010, 09:52 PM
Maybe so, but it's not just the SAR teams. It's also the people manning tip lines, the people calling in tips, the people bringing supplies to the donation center, the people in the media who are keeping this story in the headlines, the people manning the first aid stations. There are many hundreds of people pulling together to find their child for them.
My opinion, but I do strongly feel that thanks are in order. I know I am not them, but I'd be on my knees in gratitude for so many people trying to find my child for me.
When a child goes missing it's like everyone who is helping find him in any way is part of that childs family. People aren't doing it only for the parents, they're doing it for Kyron and to help bring him home safely. When this is all said and done (hopefully a good outcome) I'm sure they will thank everyone involved. Right now it's only been a few days and in my opinion the last thing that's going through thier minds is making sure to thank everyone. Not necessary. When I do something nice for someone I don't expect them to be on their knees with gratitude. MHO of course.
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 09:55 PM
Ruby is a treasure to this forum. Puts the latest right in the thread for us.
A true gem.
http://www.zwani.com/graphics/thank_you/images/1.gif
Jaxson
06-09-2010, 09:56 PM
I think that if my child was missing, I'd be going back and forth between catatonic and frantic/neurotic and then probably needing to be restrained and possibly knocked out. And in a big fog that would keep me in a state of tunnel vision. I don't think I'd be able to see or focus on stuff outside of my main goal to find my child and I know I wouldn't have the capacity to think like I normally do. KWIM?
ITA and I for one would not expect any parent in these circumstances to put themselves out there for the world to see. What would be the point? If they didn't cry enough, or they cried to much, if they smiled or didn't, it would just be picked apart. I don't need to see them. I would be just like you said; catatonic and then frantic and depending at what point I was would give entirely different views to everyone.
I am sure when there is a resolution of whatever kind (hopefully a good one) the parents will make sure to publicly thank anyone who so much as posted about Kyron on there facebook. The last thing they should be doing is thinking about what there Momma taught them in regards to etiquette!
ETA Wow gourmet we think alike! But you are quicker than me.
cj1132
06-09-2010, 09:57 PM
When my son was younger, we were shopping and he was right beside me and the next minute he was gone. He was hiding in one of those round racks that clothes hang on. To this day, I still remember the sick feeling I had when I realized he was gone. I found him almost immediately so drawing on how I felt those few seconds, I cannot imagine a child missing for six days.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Hi everyone! I am new coming into this case. I first learned about it today coming to WS site and am overwhelmed there are already 7 threads on this topic. In between trying to 'catch up', would some one be so kind as to answer a couple of questions, please?
Has any mention been made if Kyron's backpack or jacket were at the school or with him? Any mention of any of his belongings discovered that maybe shouldn't have been?
Any mention of any possible enemies of the family or why anyone would want to kidnap Kyron to begin with?
LotsaLatte
06-09-2010, 09:57 PM
Anyone think Kyron's teacher's statement was a little strange too, especially the bolded portion?
“The students in Kyron’s class miss him terribly and we are all wishing for his safe return. As their teacher my goal has been to continue our familiar routine and to help my students stay focused on learning, what they need to know by the end of the year so that they are well prepared.”
Sort of a strange thing to emphasize at a time like this, no?
My little one came home yesterday with math homework that required skipping a chapter in division and moving onto mastering fractions. I asked why they were skipping one section (division) and moving to the next one (fractions.)
She told me that her teacher said they needed to focus on fractions since it is the end of the school year and that they would be prepared for the next school year. So I kind of took Kyron's teacher's statement to mean the same thing. Hope that's the case.
liz b.
06-09-2010, 09:58 PM
I followed a case on WS where a little girl in Oregon wandered away from her home,and got lost in the woods. A brilliant LEO thought to get a tape of her grandmother's voice,telling the little girl that they were all looking for her,that they would soon find her,and for her not to be afraid... And they played the tape loudly when the choppers were up in the air.They did find her,and she said that she was sooo glad when she heard her grandma's voice coming from the helicopters. Is it worth a try at least ? Or,does LE not believe that Kyron wandered off by himself ?
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 09:58 PM
Snippage from: http://www.katu.com/news/local/96010359.html
Cars were constantly coming and going at Kyron's remote home in the woods today. Among the vehicles were a Dodge Charger, apparently with investigators inside, and a red mustang driven by Kyron's stepmother Terri.
Authorities are not confirming whether she or anyone else in the family has been subjected to a polygraph test. We do know that can be standard procedure in cases like this.
No More
06-09-2010, 09:59 PM
With all respect I cannot see a ransom in any scenario. They are not a famous family and I doubt they have the funds that would motivate someone to do this for a ransom.
I'm still hoping that Kyron wondered off, realized he was lost and panicked and then ran a bit too far. Very typical reaction for lost people.
annalyzer
06-09-2010, 10:00 PM
Someone asked about Kyron's artwork...here it is.
http://www.kptv.com/slideshow/news/23822528/detail.html
Me, thanks. Wow that little fella is talented.
scandi
06-09-2010, 10:02 PM
If I remember correctly in the past Lillian Glass has said that lip licking is a sign of lying.
Gates has been doing that a lot lately. (Not a problem, I expect him to not be honest, just pointing it out.)
I do find the family statement to be weird and not written by them. I also think it fits in with the possible ransom theory which is still very suspicious to me.
Hi, I think that lying is a grace LE is given if it will enhance the investigation IMO We've seen it over and over in cases.
I missed hearing the family's statement given. I am very sure tho they would be directed by the CARD Team on just what and how to say it down to the demeanor they wanted in delivering it. It all depends on what the FBI believes would best serve enhancing the investigation. Finding Kyron. They know exactly what their profile dictates in catching this person, if that is the case. IMO
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 10:02 PM
ITA and I for one would not expect any parent in these circumstances to put themselves out there for the world to see. What would be the point? If they didn't cry enough, or they cried to much, if they smiled or didn't, it would just be picked apart. I don't need to see them. I would be just like you said; catatonic and then frantic and depending at what point I was would give entirely different views to everyone.
I am sure when there is a resolution of whatever kind (hopefully a good one) the parents will make sure to publicly thank anyone who so much as posted about Kyron on there facebook. The last thing they should be doing is thinking about what there Momma taught them in regards to etiquette!
ETA Wow gourmet we think alike! But you are quicker than me.
I agree. Our human nature can be quite ugly in these situations, intentional or not. If its any concellation, I did glance at the stepmom's FB page earlier and I did see her thank a few people who were posting on her wall. We may not hear public thanks, and we also aren't privy to if she's praying every night or not and addressing her thanks and gratitude for help to God, but, we should try to focus on Kyron and pray he returns home safely.
annalyzer
06-09-2010, 10:02 PM
Hi everyone! I am new coming into this case. I first learned about it today coming to WS site and am overwhelmed there are already 7 threads on this topic. In between trying to 'catch up', would some one be so kind as to answer a couple of questions, please?
Has any mention been made if Kyron's backpack or jacket were at the school or with him? Any mention of any of his belongings discovered that maybe shouldn't have been?
Any mention of any possible enemies of the family or why anyone would want to kidnap Kyron to begin with?
No, no, no and no.
violet67
06-09-2010, 10:02 PM
i am more and more leaning to the ransom/kidnap theory. it may explain some of the bizarre behaviors - SM's odd facebook behavior (remember very early on when she said don't believe the media coverage -when there was no viable reason to say that) I don't believe the release of K's squirral pic was a coincedence either. I think the media info that comes out is very carefully monitored by FBI protocol...JMO
Emma Peel
06-09-2010, 10:03 PM
Kyron's dad is not an engineer. He is a Business Enterprise Architect. He's in management, not engineering. Either way, I don't believe he participated in writing that "family statement" for the media. I think LE threw it together at the last minute because the family didn't write one at all.
MOO
I wonder what makes you say that Kyron's dad is not an engineer? Do you know of his education & training?
Calliope
06-09-2010, 10:03 PM
Desiree's sister... yeah. But we've still not heard from the people who had physical custody of Kyron on the date that he went missing.
Desiree's also talked on the phone to media.
She spoke on behalf of the family, not her sister. She may have been chosen to be the contact.
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 10:04 PM
Me, thanks. Wow that little fella is talented.
I collect celestial art. I love the sun face.
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 10:05 PM
Kyron Horman Searchers In Need of Food, Water
Though thousands of Portlanders have offered to help police in the search for missing Kyron Horman, authorities have turned them away. A search like this is best left to the experts.
But there is now a way you can help.
Donations of food and water are being accepted at 4 locations. The best items for drop off include bottled water, sports drinks, energy bars, snacks and other packaged and easy to eat foods. If you operate a restaurant and would like to donate fresh, cooked meals, please contact the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office Search & Rescue logistics coordinator.
Food drop-off sites:
]The Xtreme Edge
16365 NW Twin Oaks Dr., Beaverton, Oregon
503-692-9200
Hours: 5:00 to 11:00 Wed-Fri
Solid Rock Church
10500 SW Nimbus Ave, Building T, Portland, OR 97223
503-620-1120
Hours: 9:00 to 5:00 Wed-Fri
Metro Gymnastics Center
18084 SW Lower Boones Ferry Road, Tigard, OR 97224-7229
503-620-8939
Hours: 8:30 to 8:30 Wed-Fri
Freeman Motors
7524 SW Macadam Avenue, Portland Oregon, 97219
Hours: 9:30 to 7:00 Wed-Fri
503-310-5555
http://theportlander.com/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-searchers-in-need-of-food-water/
mamaeb
06-09-2010, 10:06 PM
I followed a case on WS where a little girl in Oregon wandered away from her home,and got lost in the woods. A brilliant LEO thought to get a tape of her grandmother's voice,telling the little girl that they were all looking for her,that they would soon find her,and for her not to be afraid... And they played the tape loudly when the choppers were up in the air.They did find her,and she said that she was sooo glad when she heard her grandma's voice coming from the helicopters. Is it worth a try at least ? Or,does LE not believe that Kyron wandered off by himself ?
Oh this gave me chills :( So glad she was found alive and ok. So sad to wonder where Kyron is
i am more and more leaning to the ransom/kidnap theory. it may explain some of the bizarre behaviors - SM's odd facebook behavior (remember very early on when she said don't believe the media coverage -when there was no viable reason to say that) I don't believe the release of K's squirral pic was a coincedence either. I think the media info that comes out is very carefully monitored by FBI protocol...JMO
I have spent the last twenty minutes going over SM FB posts in relation to a ransom theory...the gym mention and squirrel thing I'm working on currently...nothing yet except that "hitting the gym" = Ransom drop/note
Jaxson
06-09-2010, 10:07 PM
When my son was younger, we were shopping and he was right beside me and the next minute he was gone. He was hiding in one of those round racks that clothes hang on. To this day, I still remember the sick feeling I had when I realized he was gone. I found him almost immediately so drawing on how I felt those few seconds, I cannot imagine a child missing for six days.
I have had this experience also.
Emma Peel
06-09-2010, 10:07 PM
You're on a roll, Ruby. Keep going!! :dance:
Hey Ruby,
Also wanted to give you a special thanks for your terrific sleuthing! I had to run to do dinner before I had a chance to :highfive: ya. :woohoo:
yosande
06-09-2010, 10:07 PM
Find Kyron: School parent reaches out to community
Over the weekend I heard from Kim B, a parent from Kyron's school, Skyline Elementary. She's well aware that the hills around the school are popular biking areas and she's hoping to enlist the eyes of people on bikes to find him:
"I know the cycling community is often in the NW Skyline Blvd, Newberry, Highway 30 and Forest Park area and wanted to see if it would be possible to circulate his face to as many people in the cycling community as possible that they might be on high alert for him when -- especially when in these areas."
As demonstrated by the many stolen bikes we've recovered, people traveling at bike pace tend to notice more of their surroundings. If you find yourself riding in these areas, keep a look out for Kyron.
http://bikeportland.org/2010/06/07/find-kyron-school-parent-reaches-out-to-community/
Yes, I did see a jogging/bike path in the pic from Amandareckonwith, at the railroad tunnel. moo
Portland is well known for bikes, joggers, etc. health nuts abound. :)
yosande
06-09-2010, 10:10 PM
I have spent the last twenty minutes going over SM FB posts in relation to a ransom theory...the gym mention and squirrel thing I'm working on currently...nothing yet except that "hitting the gym" = Ransom drop/note
gym=Jim?
yeah, probably not.
Feel like I'm grasping at straws here, but with really nothing to 'sleuth', speculation is all we have here...
I just thought of this, but why are they ramping up SAR efforts six days into this situation? Wouldn't the largest biggest SAR push normally happen right away, with scaling back beginning to happen at this point? This investigation seems to be going the opposite way. Perhaps they think that if he IS alive in the woods, he doesn't have long to live and they have to hurry and find him. I just thought the progression of effort here was unlike other searches I've read about.
Just thinking out loud...
Is is possible that LE think they know who took Kyron and they are trying to put the "appropriate" amount of pressure on him/her to let Kyron go? Increasing the search efforts and saying they "hope to wrap this up by the end of this week" could be giving the perp a deadline? Maybe their suspect (I know they say they do not have a suspect...) is unstable and they are applying proper tactics to resolve this case.
Just me thinking out loud...
Snoopster
06-09-2010, 10:14 PM
O.K., I was having trouble buying into the 'message hidden in the family statement' line of thinking. It's so 'hollywood-esque'. But.....
I went to the Multnomah County Sheriff Office website to see if they had a video of their latest presser, when I noticed the family statement posted there. Included with the text of the statement on the Sheriff's website, was a link to a related article in 'The Oregonian' regarding the press conference where the statement was read. What caught my eye was the wording of the actual URL link to the article. It is: ..."family says please don't stop"
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.html
Notice anthing in the wording of the link? And interestingly enough, when you click on the link to go to the article on the oregonlive site, that specific line in the family statement isn't even quoted in the article.
There is also only one phrase that is bolded and in a different color in the article. It links to the actual statement. The highlighted words are: In a statement issued at the Brooks Hill Histroic Church, the family urged people to search their property...and the sentence continues unbolded. Are they encouraging a particular someone to search their 'property' for the 'extra resources' that have now arrived? "Please don't stop".
Why would the MCSO link to a media article? They have the statement right there on their own website. There aren't any other releases on the case where they linked to an outside media article.
The link to the MSCO press release page:
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm
See what you people have turned me into??:crazy: I'm looking for shadows now! sheesh!
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Hey Ruby,
Also wanted to give you a special thanks for your terrific sleuthing! I had to run to do dinner before I had a chance to :highfive: ya. :woohoo:
Thank You!!
EGirl
06-09-2010, 10:17 PM
Is is possible that LE think they know who took Kyron and they are trying to put the "appropriate" amount of pressure on him/her to let Kyron go? Increasing the search efforts and saying they "hope to wrap this up by the end of this week" could be giving the perp a deadline? Maybe their suspect (I know they say they do not have a suspect...) is unstable and they are applying proper tactics to resolve this case.
Just me thinking out loud...
The police are seeing this as an isolated incident..... not random. That means they already suspect who the culprit is and they are lookin for a body. IMO
:(
gym=Jim?
yeah, probably not.
There is a Garlic JIMS Pizza near the school....
http://garlicjims.com/default.asp
And look at their website!! There is a ransom note type graphic!!
I need some advil :crazy:
Emma Peel
06-09-2010, 10:17 PM
I pulled up the law firm in Oregon - they are all over the country. Seems perfectly legitimate and very professional to me, and if not, the person will have plenty of lawyers to answer to.
I have no need to hear from the family - I also think they are very smart for staying out of the media and wanting the focus to be on their missing son. And who knows what their emotional state is at this time - this is day 6, so my guess is that I would be in bed with the covers pulled over my head exhausted and hysterical with worry. They need to to whatever it is that makes them functional for LE and finding their son. all my opinion and that stuff.
Thanks guys - that's what I thought too regarding the website but wasn't able to stop & check at the time. So, did anyone do a screen shot? B/C that letter will be gonzo from that site tomorrow.
There's not a worker or volunteer out there - boots on the ground, ear on the phone, or stirring a pot of hot chocolate -
that's worried about getting a thank you from this family in these early days. They are focused on priority one - finding the child. They have to feel absolutely raw - it's Day 5.
I'm thinking the family had legal counsel as soon as Sunday - and yesterday's presser comment (paraphrasing) "we are working with the family to get out a statement", meant that things were complicated in that regard.
Was it complicated by the family's counsel? Was it complicated by the message they wanted to send in the statement? Or was it complicated by current status of the case and the recommendation of special agents (CARD, etc.) regarding this family statement. JMHO
darlin gal
06-09-2010, 10:19 PM
I've never been more unsure about a case this many days into it than I am with this one. Maybe it's the lack of information being given to the press, but it's like I'm feeling around in the dark and LE won't even light a match for me, let alone turn on a table lamp. They are holding everything very close to the chest on this one, even (IMO) writing the 'family' statement for them, managing very carefully the principal's words, holding pressers that basically say one big 'no comment', etc. My hinky meter is off the charts. I'm starting to think that LE knows who has Kyron, that they believe he is still alive, and that they don't want to tip him off. Is this whole SAR process a ruse to throw the perp off, to make him/her think that they aren't onto him? Are they being extra careful to not let on so that the perp doesn't kill Kyron?
I honestly feel like this is a plot of a movie and not at all like my typical Occam's Razor way of thinking about these cases. To be honest, I can't believe I just typed those words. There HAS to be a simpler explanation than that, but I'm not seeing it.
They wouldn't call 100's of SAR volunteers in from 36 counties all as some kind of "ruse".
JMO
No More
06-09-2010, 10:19 PM
Can someone paste the link to the poll for what happened to Kyron? Thanks!
awakewriter
06-09-2010, 10:21 PM
You know, sometimes I read theories at about this point in an investigation, and I think, "Come on, guys. That is ridiculously outlandish."
This time? As outlandish as this abduction negotiation theory might seem, I am totally with you. Great sleuthing, everyone.
SuziQ
06-09-2010, 10:21 PM
Food drop-off sites:
]The Xtreme Edge
16365 NW Twin Oaks Dr., Beaverton, Oregon
503-692-9200
Hours: 5:00 to 11:00 Wed-Fri
http://theportlander.com/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-searchers-in-need-of-food-water/
Snipped for space. FWIW, Today's newscast on Fox stated the family worked out at the above gym.
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 10:22 PM
Hope this guy has been checked. Architect charged with child porn.
http://www.kptv.com/news/23102957/detail.html
The police are seeing this as an isolated incident..... not random. That means they already suspect who the culprit is and they are lookin for a body. IMO
:(
BBM, That was interesting wording, wasn't it?
watcher9
06-09-2010, 10:23 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed or not - I've had to skip whole threads just trying to catch up - and it may be stretching it way out there, but here goes...
According to Yahoo maps, Portland, Oregon is 132 miles from McCreary, Washington where Lindsey Baum disappeared. It's a straight shot up on I-5 and only two hours away. I didn't know how to copy the map over. Also, Lindsey disappeared in June of 2009 and Kyron has now disappeared in June of this year, both of them without a trace.
Kyron reminds me so much of Ben Ownby. I wish we could have the same ending for both Lindsey and Kyron as we did with Ben and Shawn.
raeann
06-09-2010, 10:23 PM
I have spent the last twenty minutes going over SM FB posts in relation to a ransom theory...the gym mention and squirrel thing I'm working on currently...nothing yet except that "hitting the gym" = Ransom drop/note
Yes, we could all build a good script for a made for tv movie here.....the squirrel picture as a way to say WHO was making the "drop"....the hitting the gym to tell them where.....the sun picture to tell them what time of day.....
Maybe we should all be writing screenplays instead of following cases all day long!
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 10:24 PM
there is a garlic jims pizza near the school....
http://garlicjims.com/default.asp
and look at their website!! There is a ransom note type graphic!!
I need some advil :crazy:
lol lol
pufnstuf
06-09-2010, 10:24 PM
The police are seeing this as an isolated incident..... not random. That means they already suspect who the culprit is and they are lookin for a body. IMO
:(
Sad to say that I agree. This poor kid, if he has made it through the rain, the hunger, the thirst... it will be a miracle.
When Gates was asked about looking for a live Kyron today and he said, "Stranger things have happened" ... kinda made my heart sink.
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 10:24 PM
Mods- have you given any thought into giving Kyron his own forum?
:praying: Kyron, you're in my prayers little guy. Stay strong and safe wherever you are :(
awakewriter
06-09-2010, 10:26 PM
You guys are onto something with the release of his artwork. That really confused me.
I think you're right. I think they were released either as a message or as a way to humanize Kyron to his abductor(s).
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 10:26 PM
I don't know if this has been discussed or not - I've had to skip whole threads just trying to catch up - and it may be stretching it way out there, but here goes...
According to Yahoo maps, Portland, Oregon is 132 miles from McCreary, Washington where Lindsey Baum disappeared. It's a straight shot up on I-5 and only two hours away. I didn't know how to copy the map over. Also, Lindsey disappeared in June of 2009 and Tyron has now disappeared in June of this year, both of them without a trace.
Tyron reminds me so much of Ben Ownby. I wish we could have the same ending for both Lindsey and Tyron as we did with Ben and Shawn.
Just a quick correction- his name is Kyron, not Tyron. :) But, I totally agree with you, he reminds me a lot of Ben Ownby as well.
The police are seeing this as an isolated incident..... not random. That means they already suspect who the culprit is and they are lookin for a body. IMO
:(
I hope that isn't so...Gates did say that they are looking for a "living Kyron"...I am hanging my hat on that.
Thanks EGirl, I do appreciate your point of view.
scandi
06-09-2010, 10:27 PM
Yes, we could all build a good script for a made for tv movie here.....the squirrel picture as a way to say WHO was making the "drop"....the hitting the gym to tell them where.....the sun picture to tell them what time of day.....
Maybe we should all be writing screenplays instead of following cases all day long!Brilliant Raeann !
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 10:28 PM
You guys are onto something with the release of his artwork. That really confused me.
I think you're right. I think they were released either as a message or as a way to humanize Kyron to his abductor(s).
I completely agree. I really can't think of another reason why they'd release his artwork to the public unless they felt, in some way, that it would help lead them to Kyron.
DidionFan
06-09-2010, 10:31 PM
With those two cases, it makes it sound as if LE was trying to point media in direction of Kyron being lost due to wandering off. I guess they showed one where people were saved and one where he was not.
Hi - Phew! Catching up on this thread has taken some time tonight!! I am local, but not familiar with the area. But let me know if you have questions - I just joined WS and am happy to help!
One thing be before I get back to catching up, nothing has really encouraged me to think he wandered off, esp. no release of medical conditions that would alert people and encourage more search volunteers. But maybe, is someone lured him, they left him somewhere where he could get easily lost trying to get home.
That said - VERY odd to me that the Kim and Boehlke cases were addressed, as they both seem to be cases in rough terrains where each were disoriented and got lost (that is at least what the assumed case is for Sammy). My only thought is that the school is in such a similar type of location, and tricky/perhaps dangerous for the untrained.
As for not accepting a reward and a sort of backtracking on the few pieces of released information, I am soooo confused as to what to think at this point. I really want to hear that he is alive, and that we can still be on a hopeful quest to find Kyron...
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Sad to say that I agree. This poor kid, if he has made it through the rain, the hunger, the thirst... it will be a miracle.
When Gates was asked about looking for a live Kyron today and he said, "Stranger things have happened" ... kinda made my heart sink.
Did he say that, stranger things have happened? Yikes...
But honestly, if he is there and not found like right about now...I don't see how hope can be maintained much longer...that is, if he was even alive when put there, if he was. They seem to think that is the place to search, for some reason unknown to us. I'm still not on board with the kidnapping theory, at least not a ransom w/contact kidnapping, but who knows. Not me.
raeann
06-09-2010, 10:33 PM
There is a Garlic JIMS Pizza near the school....
http://garlicjims.com/default.asp
And look at their website!! There is a ransom note type graphic!!
I need some advil :crazy:
You need advil.....and now I NNNNEEEEDDDD pizza. I had lean sliced turkey and low fat baby swiss cheese for dinner.....and I am starving!!!!!!
Oh, and I had a delicious glass of water, too.
:innocent:
Blue_Dolphin308
06-09-2010, 10:34 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.html
Under comments:
Post by Liz in response to Batman on June 9, 2010 @ 6:55 Is very interesting. I wonder if it is acurate or not and I don't know how to varify it.
I think her response was said in Sarcasm. I don't think she was claiming that, just saying it in sarcasm.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 10:34 PM
The police are seeing this as an isolated incident..... not random. That means they already suspect who the culprit is and they are lookin for a body. IMO
:(
You know, I'm not quite sure why, but this case is reminding me of the Torri Stafford case, in Woodstock, Canada. She was seen on videotape walking with one of her abductors. There was hope she was still alive (I can't remember anymore why there was that hope). I don't remember how far into the case it was, but when it was learned she died within hours of her abduction, a lot of people were shocked by this revelation. I truly pray this is not the case with Kyron. He's an adorable little boy and to me resembles the baby einstein logo.
Speaking of videotape, has there been any indication of school camera's picked anything up after Kyron allegedly went to class? Are there video cameras anywhere in the hallways of the school, does anyone know?
EGirl
06-09-2010, 10:37 PM
BBM, That was interesting wording, wasn't it?
Interesting and very telling. IMO
pinkpuddytat
06-09-2010, 10:38 PM
I just don't see kidnapping with this desperate level of ground searching...I honestly think they do not know if this is an abduction or a missing -in- the- wilderness case.
Unfortunately, both are often true at the same time -- abduction, and body turning up in the wilderness. Remember Danielle Van Dam.
While finding a body may not seem urgent enough to warrant this large scale search, if they don't have any sense of certainty as to whether they're looking for a dead child or a live child, they have to keep huge professional resources tied up looking for a live child on a very urgent basis. If they rule out finding a live child by finding the child dead, then those resources can be redeployed to other cases where their urgent attention might make the difference between life or death for someone else, and the professional work of identifying the perpetrator can proceed at a less urgent pace. Since they've found they are able to muster these huge search resources, which appear to be mainly trained/certified volunteers, for whom donations of basic provisions are being solicited (so presumably at very little cost), it makes sense to use them.
And of course, there's always a small chance of finding the child alive out in the wilderness after a number of days, even if the child's disappearance was due to an abduction. A few more search teams might have made a world of difference for Elizabeth Smart. Even though there was a huge turnout of volunteer searchers (though I think rather few of them had any training or certification), they still managed to walk right past where she was being held by her abductor.
I'm interpreting the massive search effort as just maximizing whatever resources they've got available. It may be that with the lousy economy, a much higher than usual number of trained/certified searchers are available to head out on a search, because they don't have jobs to go to.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 10:39 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.html
Under comments:
Post by Liz in response to Batman on June 9, 2010 @ 6:55 Is very interesting. I wonder if it is acurate or not and I don't know how to varify it.
Question: comment by duckyou at 12:47 p.m., does anyone know if that is accurate, regarding the backpack and jacket? If so, why would the teacher think he was 'absent' but that Kyron decided to just go somewhere with the stepmom? It makes no sense ....
EGirl
06-09-2010, 10:40 PM
Sad to say that I agree. This poor kid, if he has made it through the rain, the hunger, the thirst... it will be a miracle.
When Gates was asked about looking for a live Kyron today and he said, "Stranger things have happened" ... kinda made my heart sink.
My heart sank too :( He is so adorable.. .I just want to hug him.
Please GOD, bring this baby home.
PS, thanks so much for the links/info earlier, I really appreciate it
Wise Old Owl
06-09-2010, 10:40 PM
O.K., I was having trouble buying into the 'message hidden in the family statement' line of thinking. It's so 'hollywood-esque'. But.....
I went to the Multnomah County Sheriff Office website to see if they had a video of their latest presser, when I noticed the family statement posted there. Included with the text of the statement on the Sheriff's website, was a link to a related article in 'The Oregonian' regarding the press conference where the statement was read. What caught my eye was the wording of the actual URL link to the article. It is: ..."family says please don't stop"
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.html
Notice anthing in the wording of the link? And interestingly enough, when you click on the link to go to the article on the oregonlive site, that specific line in the family statement isn't even quoted in the article.
There is also only one phrase that is bolded and in a different color in the article. It links to the actual statement. The highlighted words are: In a statement issued at the Brooks Hill Histroic Church, the family urged people to search their property...and the sentence continues unbolded. Are they encouraging a particular someone to search their 'property' for the 'extra resources' that have now arrived? "Please don't stop".
Why would the MCSO link to a media article? They have the statement right there on their own website. There aren't any other releases on the case where they linked to an outside media article.
The link to the MSCO press release page:
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm
See what you people have turned me into??:crazy: I'm looking for shadows now! sheesh!
Very interesting.
Here are two different sentences from the newspaper article that reached out and slapped me:
(i'm including the paragraph and bolding the exact sentence - so you can see it in context)
"All of the 35 have responded," he said. "They're working on organizing their resources. We've utilized ours to search the area that a man could travel. We've reached that phase where we need to expand the search farther out."
The family didn't appear in public to make the plea. They want to keep the focus on Kyron, said Multnomah County sheriff's Capt. Mike Shults.
"They know that it's very important to keep the objective on Kyron and him, not on them," said Shults, who has been with the family since the second-grader went missing.
Why the comment in the frist one about how far a "man" could travel? And WhoTH is "HIM" in the second one?
mamaeb
06-09-2010, 10:41 PM
did I miss that they are now calling it a "Criminal Investigation"
..."Kyron Horman's disappearance is now being considered a Criminal Investigation."
http://www.snohomishtimes.com/snohomishNEWS.cfm?inc=story&newsID=1254
Emma Peel
06-09-2010, 10:42 PM
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Kyron.Horman.pdf
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.htmlhttp://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Kyron.Horman.pdf
Statement by Kyron Horman’s Immediate Familiy
June 9, 2010
Noon
Read by Capt. Mike Shults, Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office
Kyron's family would like to thank people for their support and interest in finding their son. The outpouring of support and continued effort strengthens their hope.
We need for folks to continue to assist us in our goal. Please search
your properties – cars, out buildings, sheds, etc. Also check with
neighbors and friends who may be on vacation or may need in
assistance in searching. There are a lot of resources here to help
you search, so please don’t stop.
It is obviously a difficult time and they want to speak to the public so
you can hear it from Kyron’s family as they come together to share
their message. Their objective is to keep the focus on Kyron and not
about anything else.
************************************************** *
emma's comments:
I'm back up on the fence about codes in the public statement. I think it's just a miscommunication.
I think the ONLY part of this statement that is from Kyron's family is the first paragraph.
I think the rest of this statement is an LE statement. In other words, it is LE talking to the public with the instruction to check cars and outbuildings, etc.. "Folks ..."
And the final paragraph is an awkwardly worded apology for the family not meeting the public in person just yet, saying they want to do that but they will do so when they can come together to share their message.
For some reason, the family must not be all together today and couldn't do a family press conference?
I think we will see them soon.
Taking more time to re-read everything, and watch the press conference, I'm moving away from the idea of this having a coded message. Which is sad, actually. It had raised my hopes.
Mr. Harmon's e-mail is strong and focused and in line with what one might expect of a man of action, organization, and team process in a crisis. I have no idea how he was still holding it together when he wrote that thing. Impressive. JMHO
:couch:
EGirl
06-09-2010, 10:43 PM
You know, I'm not quite sure why, but this case is reminding me of the Torri Stafford case, in Woodstock, Canada. She was seen on videotape walking with one of her abductors. There was hope she was still alive (I can't remember anymore why there was that hope). I don't remember how far into the case it was, but when it was learned she died within hours of her abduction, a lot of people were shocked by this revelation. I truly pray this is not the case with Kyron. He's an adorable little boy and to me resembles the baby einstein logo.
Speaking of videotape, has there been any indication of school camera's picked anything up after Kyron allegedly went to class? Are there video cameras anywhere in the hallways of the school, does anyone know?
Alexis, apparently there is no video. At this point LE will not even confirm any siting after 8:45 or if the picture was confirmed to have been taken that morning.
We are literally at square one.
liz b.
06-09-2010, 10:44 PM
With all respect I cannot see a ransom in any scenario. They are not a famous family and I doubt they have the funds that would motivate someone to do this for a ransom.
I'm still hoping that Kyron wondered off, realized he was lost and panicked and then ran a bit too far. Very typical reaction for lost people.
No More,
I know how you feel about the wandering off theory... And I see what you mean about them not being famous.But, we really don't know what financial resources the family has access to. To you,or to me it would seem foolish,crazy,even,to do such a thing for money( and that doesn't even cover the moral part of it)..But,most criminals just aren't that smart,they go with impulses.For someone who cuts their grass,or someone who babysits their kids,this family might seem very wealthy. A very good target. KWIM ?
I am not married to this theory,I'm just dating it.... One thing that bothers me : I have not read anywhere,and don't know if anyone asked, was anything different on that morning ? Was Kyron cranky for any reason ? Did he have words with anyone that would lead to him running into the woods ?
Because he seems like such a thoughtful,smart kid, not the type of boy to run off.....
yosande
06-09-2010, 10:45 PM
I found it interesting to learn that in the Kim case it wasn't the searchers that found the family; it was a couple of engineers who were able to pin point where they were due to their cell phone. (It would be interesting to know if Kyron had a cell phone.)
I don't remember that. I thought there was no cell phone service up there, d/t no cell towers.
I thought a copter spotted the car.
Thanks for the info. :)
rosiebean
06-09-2010, 10:46 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.html
Under comments:
Post by Liz in response to Batman on June 9, 2010 @ 6:55 Is very interesting. I wonder if it is acurate or not and I don't know how to varify it.
Saw it, and she's wrong...I know she said 'supposedly' (nice way to cover your rear when insinuating a whole lotta crap about someone), but she's flat out wrong about the date the picture was uploaded to FB.
tfrohning
06-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Snipped for space. FWIW, Today's newscast on Fox stated the family worked out at the above gym.
OT
but I found this article and it pop out to me. Made me wonder if Kyron's family know this guy he a local LE turn writer.
http://theportlander.com/2010/05/10/book-review-blood-secrets/
annalyzer
06-09-2010, 10:48 PM
Very interesting.
Here are two different sentences from the newspaper article that reached out and slapped me:
(i'm including the paragraph and bolding the exact sentence - so you can see it in context)
"All of the 35 have responded," he said. "They're working on organizing their resources. We've utilized ours to search the area that a man could travel. We've reached that phase where we need to expand the search farther out."
The family didn't appear in public to make the plea. They want to keep the focus on Kyron, said Multnomah County sheriff's Capt. Mike Shults.
"They know that it's very important to keep the objective on Kyron and him, not on them," said Shults, who has been with the family since the second-grader went missing.
Why the comment in the frist one about how far a "man" could travel? And WhoTH is "HIM" in the second one?
I think they were referring to Kyron again as him to then say not on them. (keep the focus on him and not on them)
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 10:48 PM
did I miss that they are now calling it a "Criminal Investigation"
..."Kyron Horman's disappearance is now being considered a Criminal Investigation."
http://www.snohomishtimes.com/snohomishNEWS.cfm?inc=story&newsID=1254
Isn't that odd how they kind've just snuck/stuck that in there in the middle of the article like that, sort of 'matter of fact'-like? hmmm .....
Angel4u2Whisper2
06-09-2010, 10:49 PM
Saw it, and she's wrong...I know she said 'supposedly' (nice way to cover your rear when insinuating a whole lotta crap about someone), but she's flat out wrong about the date the picture was uploaded to FB.
Thank You Very Much! That is all I needed to know. I appreciate your assistance. :blowkiss:
Voice4theSilent
06-09-2010, 10:50 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/family_says_please_dont_stop_s.html
Under comments:
Post by Liz in response to Batman on June 9, 2010 @ 6:55 Is very interesting. I wonder if it is acurate or not and I don't know how to varify it.
I do not think Liz's statement is accurate. If I recall correctly it was dated Friday, June 4th around 1:00pm'ish (PST)
watcher9
06-09-2010, 10:51 PM
Just a quick correction- his name is Kyron, not Tyron. :) But, I totally agree with you, he reminds me a lot of Ben Ownby as well.
A big thanks for giving me a heads up on my memory lapse.
I know better.
I've gone back and corrected his name on my message.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 10:51 PM
:waitasec::blushing: I'm confused it that a question in regards to my post, or just saying that there are many that don't make sense? Sorry I feeling lost.
Beg padron Agnel,for the confusion. You had mentioned a comment after the article and then after I looked at your question on the comment you saw, I saw another comment (after the article) made by a poster named duckyou regarding Kyron's backpack and coat, and I wondered if the comment about those items was accurate.
Sorry, I can be bad for that, I'm told. :blush
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 10:52 PM
Son of Intel Employee Missing, AT Reader Help Requested
by Anand L S
A friend of mine who works at Intel emailed me asking for my help in this. Kyron Horman, the son of an Intel employee, has gone missing. The report is vague but seems to imply that the child went missing somewhere in Multnomah County, Oregon.
http://www.anandtech.com/
The e-mail is getting the word out there.
Jokerswild
06-09-2010, 10:53 PM
Hi all! This is my first time posting...long time lurker. I have a couple of theories...but I'll refrain from posting due to board rules.
On the other hand...I do believe that LE knows a whole lot more than they are letting on. Hence, the secrecy surrounding every SINGLE thing in regards to this investigation. I believe they know who the purp is and they want to keep that information under raps. Otherwise, as you all remember in other cases, they would be giving any information that could identitfy a suspect. They would let us know on type of car, description etc. By them being SOOO quiet makes me think they know who is involved.
Kimster
06-09-2010, 10:53 PM
Don't copy blog quotes. :nono: You can link to a media where blog comments are made and refer to them, but please do not quote them.
If you did that, edit your posts. Thanks!
Wise Old Owl
06-09-2010, 10:54 PM
Isn't that odd how they kind've just snuck/stuck that in there in the middle of the article like that, sort of 'matter of fact'-like? hmmm .....
I think that is where this has to go in order to justify the FBI mobile reponse unit. In the second presser he said he wanted to "show the mobile reponse unit" to the media but the minute it was up - it was manned and now no one can go in there with all the confidential stuff. If you aren't going to take the media in there now - then why even mention it? And - that shows they were quite anxious to get that up and running very quickly. When asked about the resoruces that unit brings the first thing he said was "high speed internet" - hhhmmmmmm...........uh, wouldn't a Sheriff's office already have a high speed connection?
I'm thinking it wasn't so much the high speed internet but more the "connections" those FBI computers have to certain databases and confidential info and "hacking and tracking" capabilities.
pinkpuddytat
06-09-2010, 10:54 PM
I think it is entirely possible for a single person to have written both. Kaine Hormon may speak to the legal department in one way (he is a manager and is 'taking charge') and to the general public and search and rescue teams, etc. with a more personable tone simply because he is not in control. Business tone versus how you might speak to friends and aquaintances.
At a major company like Intel, there's no way a management level employee sent out that e-mail without having it vetted -- and quite possibly edited -- by internal PR and/or legal staff. As for speaking to the media (Kaine or any other Intel employee), most large companies have *very* strict policies about employees speaking to the media about anything remotely related to the company (or in some cases about anything at all). Because child disappearances often involve either family members or associates of family members, Intel's name is going appear in any press coverage of anything said about this case by Kaine Horman or any other Intel employee. They can't just up and decide to speak to the media without getting clearance from senior management (PR and legal), unless they want to risk losing their jobs.
I'm sure Intel wouldn't fire Kaine over speaking to the media, since it's his son that's missing, but they wouldn't be happy about it if he wasn't pre-clearing any media statements with PR/legal. Any other employee could face serious discipline, including termination, for unauthorized communication with media about something they had no personal connection to other than through their employment at Intel.
Kimster
06-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Hi Jokerswild!!!! Thank you for coming out of Lurksville and joining us! :hug:
rosiebean
06-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Isn't that odd how they kind've just snuck/stuck that in there in the middle of the article like that, sort of 'matter of fact'-like? hmmm .....
I believe that this article was going on the statement by the principal yesterday about it being a 'criminal investigation'. I don't have links off hand, but I recall one article going with what the principal said. If it's the same article I read with that statement, it was originally printed before LE refuted that it was considered a criminal investigation.
IMO, I'd trust only what's been said at PC's. Of course, nothing was said at the last PC, but I'd still stick with what was said at earlier ones and NOT go with anything in the press as they're mistake prone...IMO.
mamaeb
06-09-2010, 10:55 PM
Son of Intel Employee Missing, AT Reader Help Requested
by Anand L S
A friend of mine who works at Intel emailed me asking for my help in this. Kyron Horman, the son of an Intel employee, has gone missing. The report is vague but seems to imply that the child went missing somewhere in Multnomah County, Oregon.
http://www.anandtech.com/
The e-mail is getting the word out there.
About the missing person sign:
I am curious why they do not mention his shirt in description or say that the picture was taken moments before he went missing
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 10:55 PM
I am not into trying to read the meaning behind the wording of the various communications...or how they end up posted on websites. Probably some errors in translation. That statement said basically nothing to me and Dad's statement probably should not have said "dropped off" (IIRC) when that was already an issue in debate at some point, but again, I think it was just an oversight. I just don't see that they are talking to a specific offender, but perhaps taking advice from FBI just in case it is a kidnapping-type scenario. I really think they don't know and hope they are not married to that one search area if they are not working off very specific info. JMO
Kokopelli
06-09-2010, 10:58 PM
I had to take a break from the case this evening. But, I've spent the last hour catching up and am now even more confused as ever. However, it seems as though I'm not alone in feeling that way...
I have had the theory that this was, indeed, a kidnapping and ransom case since the beginning. And, as time passes, I'm even more drawn to that conclusion. I have hesitated posting too much on the topic, but it seems like others are now considering the same set of circumstances. There has been something "off" about this case and the way LE has handled it from the beginning. I certainly don't fault them as I strongly believe they have a reason for being as vague and abrupt as they have been. I am not going to mention the family despite having some thoughts and theories about them as well. But, for now, the family and LE deserve the benefit of the doubt and I am supporting them in doing whatever they feel is necessary in order to bring Kyron home.
I don't know how this case will end up. I have speculated and can go a number of different ways. But, none of that is important. For tonight, I am just praying that LE knows more than they are letting on -- Kyron needs to come home.
Little Kyron has stolen my heart. I hope that LE truly is searching for a living Kyron, but I also know that I must prepare myself for the worst. I am praying that tomorrow will bring more answers, but I am not going to rely on the press conferences to provide that information. LE is keeping this close to the vest and I trust their judgement. They are being protective of Kyron's family and I think that is as it should be. Are there inconsistencies? Of course. Am I more uncertain now than I was last Friday? You bet. Am I frustrated by the constant shut down of questions? No comment. But, I'll continue to hold on to my faith for as long as I need to. And, it looks like I'm in good company...
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by No More
With all respect I cannot see a ransom in any scenario. They are not a famous family and I doubt they have the funds that would motivate someone to do this for a ransom.
I'm still hoping that Kyron wondered off, realized he was lost and panicked and then ran a bit too far. Very typical reaction for lost people.
No More,
I know how you feel about the wandering off theory... And I see what you mean about them not being famous.But, we really don't know what financial resources the family has access to. To you,or to me it would seem foolish,crazy,even,to do such a thing for money( and that doesn't even cover the moral part of it)..But,most criminals just aren't that smart,they go with impulses.For someone who cuts their grass,or someone who babysits their kids,this family might seem very wealthy. A very good target. KWIM ?
I am not married to this theory,I'm just dating it.... One thing that bothers me : I have not read anywhere,and don't know if anyone asked, was anything different on that morning ? Was Kyron cranky for any reason ? Did he have words with anyone that would lead to him running into the woods ?
Because he seems like such a thoughtful,smart kid, not the type of boy to run off.....
If I may add, if this is a kidnapping/abduction, it may not be for the money but for other nefarious reasons, sadly. I don't think money is always a motivator. Sometimes its just grabbing something precious to any family (what more precious than an innocent child) to 'sock it to them', per se, or to 'get them where it hurts'. A way to 'settle a score' of something/information we are not privy to at this time. jmo of course.
yosande
06-09-2010, 10:58 PM
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/Kyron.Horman.pdf
Statement by Kyron Horman’s Immediate Familiy
June 9, 2010
Noon
Read by Capt. Mike Shults, Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office
Kyron's family would like to thank people for their support and interest in finding their son. The outpouring of support and continued effort strengthens their hope.
We need for folks to continue to assist us in our goal. Please search
your properties – cars, out buildings, sheds, etc. Also check with
neighbors and friends who may be on vacation or may need in
assistance in searching. There are a lot of resources here to help
you search, so please don’t stop.
It is obviously a difficult time and they want to speak to the public so
you can hear it from Kyron’s family as they come together to share
their message. Their objective is to keep the focus on Kyron and not
about anything else.
************************************************** *
emma's comments:
I'm back up on the fence about codes in the public statement. I think it's just a miscommunication.
I think the ONLY part of this statement that is from Kyron's family is the first paragraph.
I think the rest of this statement is an LE statement. In other words, it is LE talking to the public with the instruction to check cars and outbuildings, etc.. "Folks ..."
And the final paragraph is an awkwardly worded apology for the family not meeting the public in person just yet, saying they want to do that but they will do so when they can come together to share their message.
For some reason, the family must not be all together today and couldn't do a family press conference?
I think we will see them soon.
Taking more time to re-read everything, and watch the press conference, I'm moving away from the idea of this having a coded message. Which is sad, actually. It had raised my hopes.
Mr. Harmon's e-mail is strong and focused and in line with what one might expect of a man of action, organization, and team process in a crisis. I have no idea how he was still holding it together when he wrote that thing. Impressive. JMHO
:couch:
Thanks for the link. This is the first time I've seen it.
first impression, strong infighting.
ETA; not all of it was written by the family,
possibly a kidnapping/ransom scenario is going on,
and the possible kidnapper has cut off contact.
But it's pure speculation on my part, of course...
jmo.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 11:00 PM
Alexis, apparently there is no video. At this point LE will not even confirm any siting after 8:45 or if the picture was confirmed to have been taken that morning.
We are literally at square one.
Thanks! Its just hard to believe that with all those people scurrying around the school that morning, that not one single person saw anything? Anyone?
rosiebean
06-09-2010, 11:03 PM
Thanks! Its just hard to believe that with all those people scurrying around the school that morning, that not one single person saw anything? Anyone?
I think people saw things, but LE isn't commenting right now...a difference.
Kimberlyd125
06-09-2010, 11:04 PM
Oh my goodness. I'm so far behind due to softball games!!!
Is there a kind soul here that can give me a brief run down of what's going on tonight.
I will go back and read but it may take me a while.
What are the current thoughts?
Thanks.
JBean
06-09-2010, 11:05 PM
Maybe so, but it's not just the SAR teams. It's also the people manning tip lines, the people calling in tips, the people bringing supplies to the donation center, the people in the media who are keeping this story in the headlines, the people manning the first aid stations. There are many hundreds of people pulling together to find their child for them.
My opinion, but I do strongly feel that thanks are in order. I know I am not them, but I'd be on my knees in gratitude for so many people trying to find my child for me.
perhaps their energies are focused more on finding their child than social graces. I would guess that maybe they have tunnel vision at this point and know that people are grateful. I don't think anyone is looking for thanks from this family at this point. There is plenty of time for that.
ETA; I see they have released a thank you.
SoCalSleuth
06-09-2010, 11:05 PM
They have a criminal profiler on this case and I believe he told them to release Kyron's artwork as a means to humanize him to the kidnapper. I also believe that everything that LE and the family is saying or not saying is also per the direction of the profiler--that would include LE's statements that the family is free to talk yet the family not talking--it's all being done for a reason. One thing that I find startling that makes me think that it's an abduction is that LE has not stated that they are concerned with Kyron being out in the elements for such an extended period especially with the bad weather they had at the beginning--(and if I am wrong feel free to correct me). I also believe there is a strong possibility that the kidnapper knows the family, knows Kyron, possibly had a prior relationship with him (neighbor? babysitter?) and is a woman.
pinkpuddytat
06-09-2010, 11:08 PM
If I remember correctly in the past Lillian Glass has said that lip licking is a sign of lying.
Gates has been doing that a lot lately. (Not a problem, I expect him to not be honest, just pointing it out.)
I do find the family statement to be weird and not written by them. I also think it fits in with the possible ransom theory which is still very suspicious to me.
Does anyone really believe that LE would approve of the family releasing a statement that they'd actually written all by themselves? Look what happened to the school principal was allowed to speak at the press conference -- LE had someone right next to him, and when he said one wrong word in the press conference, LE all but tackled him to get him off the scene immediately.
Someone in the family may have written something as a first draft, but by the time LE was done editing it, of course it wouldn't sound like their own words any more, because it wouldn't be.
And on a related note, I'm absolutely appalled at the media outlet that ran what appeared to be a direct interview with Kyron's best friend and classmate. I'm sure LE was appalled too, and has since had a word with the boy's parents and the media outlet. That child is only 8 years old, and as close to being a witness to Kyron's disappearance as anyone. They're not even letting the school principal speak freely to the media, and yet somehow this very young child was allowed to yak away to some reporter, whose editor in turn made the irresponsible decision to print lengthy quotes from the "interview". The child probably had no concept that what he said about his missing friend would be quoted in the media.
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 11:08 PM
This is about to win my award for one of the most confusing cases ever. I keep going back and forth between he's lost, abducted by a stranger, abducted by someone he knows, held for ransom..etc. I can't figure this out :(
Emma Peel
06-09-2010, 11:09 PM
Thanks for the link. This is the first time I've seen it.
first impression, strong infighting.
jmo.
yeah, I think I'm getting that too yosande.
at least awkwardness regarding issues of family's media presence - likely due to the early involvement of family's legal counsel. Intel too. Eggshells.
That was perhaps the most fascinating part of the e-mail to me. The reference Mr. Horman makes to contacting Intel legal on how to proceed...
Can you imagine if Intel's financially helping to support this ground effort? That would be very hush-hush. We'll never hear about it. IMO they would not want to become a magnet for employee-related kidnapping/ransoms.
Of course, I hope Intel is helping. Seems to be a major influx of searchers now. $$$$$ Probably not a crazier thought than any other tonight.
They have a criminal profiler on this case and I believe he told them to release Kyron's artwork as a means to humanize him to the kidnapper. I also believe that everything that LE and the family is saying or not saying is also per the direction of the profiler--that would include LE's statements that the family is free to talk yet the family not talking--it's all being done for a reason. One thing that I find startling that makes me think that it's an abduction is that LE has not stated that they are concerned with Kyron being out in the elements for such an extended period especially with the bad weather they had at the beginning--(and if I am wrong feel free to correct me). I also believe there is a strong possibility that the kidnapper knows the family, knows Kyron, possibly had a prior relationship with him (neighbor? babysitter?) and is a woman.
I agree with everything you've said!
scandi
06-09-2010, 11:09 PM
Thanks. I thought maybe it could have been true? I wonder if anyone here has checked that out before and it has been ruled out already. :waitasec:
It could be one of those points kept close to the vest of LE but a very astute reader put 2 + 2 together !!!
ETA: Remember yesterday at a presser the Sheriff said he couldn't answer that question as to when the photo was taken. It made me wonder if it was taken when he delivered the project to his school.
Was he wearing that T-shirt when he disappeared?
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 11:10 PM
Oh my goodness. I'm so far behind due to softball games!!!
Is there a kind soul here that can give me a brief run down of what's going on tonight.
I will go back and read but it may take me a while.
What are the current thoughts?
Thanks.
Nothing really new...everyone still just hashing out various scenarios and possibilities. The statements are posted that LE read from family and one from Dad posted on what must be a friend's company website. Searching is escalating, LE would confirm nothing at last PC, including things that had been confirmed before, and indicated they are looking for a "live Kyron" and that "stranger things have happened" in meaning that he could be found alive. They talked about two other cases, how they were searched, etc...both were lost in wilderness type cases. So really, no way to know wht they are thinking, IMO.
Kimberlyd125
06-09-2010, 11:12 PM
Nothing really new...everyone still just hashing out various scenarios and possibilities. The statements are posted that LE read from family and one from Dad posted on what must be a friend's company website. Searching is escalating, LE would confirm nothing at last PC, including things that had been confirmed before, and indicated they are looking for a "live Kyron" and that "stranger things have happened" in meaning that he could be found alive. They talked about two other cases, how they were searched, etc...both were lost in wilderness type cases. So really, no way to know wht they are thinking, IMO.
Thank you so much!!!
I will go back to read now. Just wanted to know a little before going all the way back through 4-5 hours of posts :eek:
Voice4theSilent
06-09-2010, 11:13 PM
Another possible motive for kidnapping (aside from $) may be a disgruntled co-worker or former co-worker of someone in the family.
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 11:15 PM
Oh my goodness. I'm so far behind due to softball games!!!
Is there a kind soul here that can give me a brief run down of what's going on tonight.
I will go back and read but it may take me a while.
What are the current thoughts?
Thanks.
I've been off and on tonight as well, but I'll try to recap for you the best I can.
-Investigators brought in the sheriff from Klamath County to help with the investigation today (he is apparently experienced in different kinds of searches).
-At a press conference this afternoon, the sheriffs office read a statement by the family. You can watch the 4pm presser here- http://www.katu.com/home/video/96011519.html
-Hundreds of additional searchers will be searching tonight and tomorrow.
-The FBI brought in a special mobile command center today that will allow them to communicate via satellite communications, give detectives more room to work, help with logistics, etc.
As far as the current thoughts, I think everyone is just beyond confused at this point.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 11:16 PM
Would someone be so kind as to link me to the email I keep reading about? I am confused about who this email is from, who it is to or how it is significant. Thank you so much!
SoCalSleuth
06-09-2010, 11:16 PM
yeah, I think I'm getting that too yosande.
at least awkwardness regarding issues of family's media presence - likely due to the early involvement of family's legal counsel. Intel too. Eggshells.
That was perhaps the most fascinating part of the e-mail to me. The reference Mr. Horman makes to contacting Intel legal on how to proceed...
Can you imagine if Intel's financially helping to support this ground effort? That would be very hush-hush. We'll never hear about it. IMO they would not want to become a magnet for employee-related kidnapping/ransoms.
Of course, I hope Intel is helping. Seems to be a major influx of searchers now. $$$$$ Probably not a crazier thought than any other tonight.
Your post is spot on! There is no question that Intel has a security team in place on how to handle this situation so Intel and or its employees do not become a target. In fact, the flip-flop about the family's presser today could be a result from a conflict between Intel's advisors and the profiler's advice.
mamaeb
06-09-2010, 11:18 PM
Would someone be so kind as to link me to the email I keep reading about? I am confused about who this email is from, who it is to or how it is significant. Thank you so much!
http://ackerlaw.com/blog
it is an email that kyron's dad sent out from work
Just going to post this so its out there. No comment I guess.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/95700834.html
s_finch
06-09-2010, 11:19 PM
A few weeks ago my son, who is special needs, unlocked a window (because doors were deadbolted for this very reason), crawled out onto the porch, closed window behind him and went on an "adventure". What time he left we don't know, we were still asleep as it was a Sat. morning. When we realized he wasn't in his room asleep it took us less than 5 minutes to realize he wasn't on our property or neighbors property and I called 911. It was over 2 hours later that he was found, about a mile away, wandering in the woods on a old rr bed. He was having a good time and thankfully his only injuries were scratches from vines. LE's dog was on his trail but he was actually found by friends (who were immediately out hunting in droves). That was the longest 2 hours of my life and maybe because I read on here I was thinking in "websleuths mode", I was frantic and crying but I was thinking,,,,,but my experience was less than 3 hours total. Days? I'd need a rubber room. BTW, one of the first things I did was invite deputies into my house to search for anything/everything because as we know the family is always the first suspects.
This case with Kyron really is different from the norm, or either the LE department is bonkers.
KaylynnCouture
06-09-2010, 11:19 PM
It could be one of those points kept close to the vest of LE but a very astute reader put 2 + 2 together !!!
ETA: Remember yesterday at a presser the Sheriff said he couldn't answer that question as to when the photo was taken. It made me wonder if it was taken when he delivered the project to his school.
Was he wearing that T-shirt when he disappeared?
I was under the impression that he was. According to his missing persons flier he was last seen wearing "a black tshirt with CSI in green letters, black cargo pants, white socks, and black sketchers sneakers with orange trim".
(http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1149070&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US)
Krisy
06-09-2010, 11:20 PM
Curious....
Does him family think he is the "type" to wander off? School seems like a less likely place to wander off from.(than say a park or store)
Kyron you are in my thoughts and prayers!!
liz b.
06-09-2010, 11:20 PM
They have a criminal profiler on this case and I believe he told them to release Kyron's artwork as a means to humanize him to the kidnapper. I also believe that everything that LE and the family is saying or not saying is also per the direction of the profiler--that would include LE's statements that the family is free to talk yet the family not talking--it's all being done for a reason. One thing that I find startling that makes me think that it's an abduction is that LE has not stated that they are concerned with Kyron being out in the elements for such an extended period especially with the bad weather they had at the beginning--(and if I am wrong feel free to correct me). I also believe there is a strong possibility that the kidnapper knows the family, knows Kyron, possibly had a prior relationship with him (neighbor? babysitter?) and is a woman.
ITA agree about the being out in the elements part. They also mention dehydration,things like that. Pretty much always do... Also agree that whoever took Kyron probably knows him and in a way knows his family...
Breathe
06-09-2010, 11:20 PM
Many are so dedicated to the search for Kyron that they aren’t even going home to eat with their families.
http://theportlander.com/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-searchers-in-need-of-food-water/
May God guide, protect and bless every single one of them.
pinkpuddytat
06-09-2010, 11:21 PM
I have no need to hear from the family - I also think they are very smart for staying out of the media and wanting the focus to be on their missing son. And who knows what their emotional state is at this time - this is day 6, so my guess is that I would be in bed with the covers pulled over my head exhausted and hysterical with worry.
Not to mention that Kyron's father and stepmother have an 18-month-old daughter to look after. I remember during the Elizabeth Smart case, there were people criticizing the parents because Ed did virtually all the media appearances, while Lois stayed mostly out of sight. Never mind that she had *five* other children to look after on a day to day basis, including a son who was only about 3 years old.
Dee10
06-09-2010, 11:22 PM
They have a criminal profiler on this case and I believe he told them to release Kyron's artwork as a means to humanize him to the kidnapper. I also believe that everything that LE and the family is saying or not saying is also per the direction of the profiler--that would include LE's statements that the family is free to talk yet the family not talking--it's all being done for a reason. One thing that I find startling that makes me think that it's an abduction is that LE has not stated that they are concerned with Kyron being out in the elements for such an extended period especially with the bad weather they had at the beginning--(and if I am wrong feel free to correct me). I also believe there is a strong possibility that the kidnapper knows the family, knows Kyron, possibly had a prior relationship with him (neighbor? babysitter?) and is a woman.
I really agree with your post, yet the BBM I am not so sure about. I am really scratching my head on this. They have no comment on the silliest things like was the picture taken that day or we believe he went missing on Friday, yet there are direct and clear about the family is too distraught type of thing. I find this extremely confusing. Unlike the other poster who said she is "dating the ransom theory" LOL loved that line; I am looking at...but only considering coffee at this point. This is such an unbelievable mystery. Who would marry any theory at this point:snooty:
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 11:22 PM
But how on earth would a person who knew the family and wanted to hurt them think they would just happen to get an opportunity inside of a school, of all places? Unless they are VERY close to family, they would have no way of knowing if SM was going to spend the day at the school, stay for the talent show, etc...and hanging around would be dangerous, if she would recognize them. I'm just not seeing it, but I sure have been wrong in some other cases...
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 11:25 PM
http://ackerlaw.com/blog
it is an email that kyron's dad sent out from work
Thank you! :)
SuziQ
06-09-2010, 11:26 PM
I'm sitting her recalling something that was asked at one of the first pressers so I'm putting it here before I forget again.
A reporter asked Gates if Kyron had a history of running away or has run away in the past or something close to that. Gates gave his usual no comment type answer.
Calliope
06-09-2010, 11:27 PM
Many are so dedicated to the search for Kyron that they aren’t even going home to eat with their families.
http://theportlander.com/2010/06/09/kyron-horman-searchers-in-need-of-food-water/
May God guide, protect and bless every single one of them.
Gates said today he has to order them to leave and get rest.
CharlestonGal
06-09-2010, 11:28 PM
But how on earth would a person who knew the family and wanted to hurt them think they would just happen to get an opportunity inside of a school, of all places? Unless they are VERY close to family, they would have no way of knowing if SM was going to spend the day at the school, stay for the talent show, etc...and hanging around would be dangerous, if she would recognize them. I'm just not seeing it, but I sure have been wrong in some other cases...
I'm not seeing it either. If you are planning in advance to kidnap for ransom a specific 7 year old child I would think the riskiest plan would be to try it on a very busy morning at school with hundreds of people around.
There are much, much less riskier plans than that.
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Just going to post this so its out there. No comment I guess.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/95700834.html
Yep, while related, thats a whole 'nother topic. Its a shame these days our damned if you do, damned if you don't. 'Nuff said. :(
Breathe
06-09-2010, 11:31 PM
If Kyron did wonder off to find frogs or acorns, does LE put flood lights (like you see in the sky at night when a store is having a sale) out near the woods behind the school so he can find his way back? What if his glasses got knocked off by brush/tree branches when he went looking for treasures. He's just a little boy who is so scared wherever he is.
DairyGirl
06-09-2010, 11:31 PM
Just a note from a local, I was listening to a local talk radio show this afternoon and the topic was why Kyron's family hasn't been visable, so we aren't the only ones to talk about it. Personally, if it were me I would be everywhere I could to get it out but since LE is handleing it so well they may not feel the need. They couldn't win no matter what they did so I think they are just talking LE's advice and keeping a low profile. I think the stepmother was smart to make her Facebook private, too many people were tearing apart every thing that was said or not said.
Also, blurb for a local new broadcast said they would be talking to Kyron's classmates. Leave those children alone. They are so desperate for a story and since the adults have the good sense to keep quiet they are going after little children. I am appalled.
Last, I am thinking that LE has no more a clue as to what happened to Kyron today then they did when they were first called on Friday afternoon but since they are putting so much time and resources into a ground search I am thinking that wandering off is still their predominent theory. I honestly don't think this is a kidnapping for ransom. Just doesn't make sense. I could be a crime of opportunity or someone known to the child but I don't see the family being important enough to try to get money out of. JMO.
It would not be impossible for Kyron to be alive after all this time if he did run off. Given the high grass and all the other features of the terrain they are searching it could be possible to have gone within a few feet of him and missed him. And he could have possibly made it much further then they think. I am so hoping this is the case and that they find him. If he was taken by someone else I would be sure he is very far away and there would be no point is searching where they are.
eyes4crime
06-09-2010, 11:33 PM
O/T can't resist:
HEY HEY - STANLEY CUP BACK IN CHICAGO AFTER 49 YEARS!!!
Now, back to our little guy Kyron!
I'm not seeing it either. If you are planning in advance to kidnap for ransom a specific 7 year old child I would think the riskiest plan would be to try it on a very busy morning at school with hundreds of people around.
There are much, much less riskier plans than that.
Unless you want this specific child, and then it becomes harder based on their schedule.
Breathe
06-09-2010, 11:34 PM
Gates said today he has to order them to leave and get rest.
I just thought it was amazing that there are still good people in this world who will sacrifice themselves for someone they've never met. It made my heart warm and my eyes mist.
scandi
06-09-2010, 11:34 PM
I agree with everything you've said!
Me too Lava, but am wondering why she thinks the unsub is a woman unless she lost a child and Kyron reminds her of him.
Just out of curiousity, how many cases in the last 10 years have there for ransom? Do people really think they are going to get away with it?
CharlestonGal
06-09-2010, 11:36 PM
I really agree with your post, yet the BBM I am not so sure about. I am really scratching my head on this. They have no comment on the silliest things like was the picture taken that day or we believe he went missing on Friday, yet there are direct and clear about the family is too distraught type of thing. I find this extremely confusing. Unlike the other poster who said she is "dating the ransom theory" LOL loved that line; I am looking at...but only considering coffee at this point. This is such an unbelievable mystery. Who would marry any theory at this point:snooty:
bbm. I think there has to be another reason. The SM went to the gym to work out today, so I don't think the police think the family is overly distraught. They (or at least one of them) seems to be functioning OK, so I don't know why the police would use the "too distraught" excuse. Maybe the police aren't willing to risk giving the family an opportunity to say the wrong thing in front of the meda? What that might be, I don't know.
Me too Lava, but am wondering why she thinks the unsub is a woman unless she lost a child and Kyron reminds her of him.
The reason I would think it was a woman is the focus on Kyron. If she wants him for herself she isn't going to care about the family. She might care about what Kyron needs though.
alchemygirl
06-09-2010, 11:37 PM
My family and I are locals to the area and my son who is KH's age brought up a very profound point. (this is coming from a little guy) " I think who ever took him needs to know what he likes to do for fun so he does not get too sad being away from his family and that is why they are showing his drawings, that he loves to play soccer and he likes to goof off and have fun." (talking about the photo with the easter basket/truck on his head). So that is my 8 yr olds:twocents:. :) He has been very concerned about this and is scared to go to school.
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 11:38 PM
If they feel Kyron could still be alive and be in the area they are searching...are they leaving water for him as was done in Florida, I wonder, in case they "miss" him? Are they using megaphones or loud speakers from the air? Are they doing any of the things that might help a live child? Of course we don't know, we hear about "cadaver dogs" IIRc and more searchers. Everything I am looking up is indicating that 3-7 days is about it for surviving without water and that maximum is with ideal conditions, no heat or cold etc...also for adults. No info on children that I could find. It has been more than 5 days now and into the 6th night. Very scary.
butterfly1978
06-09-2010, 11:39 PM
I'm trying to catch up, geez this is insane.
If they feel Kyron could still be alive and be in the area they are searching...are they leaving water for him as was done in Florida, I wonder, in case they "miss" him? Are they using megaphones or loud speakers from the air? Are they doing any of the things that might help a live child? Of course we don't know, we hear about "cadaver dogs" IIRc and more searchers. Everything I am looking up is indicating that 3-7 days is about it for surviving without water and that maximum is with ideal conditions, no heat or cold etc...also for adults. No info on children that I could find. It has been more than 5 days now and into the 6th night. Very scary.
No Comment! :snooty:
That would be something to reassure the public about right?
SoCalSleuth
06-09-2010, 11:40 PM
I really agree with your post, yet the BBM I am not so sure about. I am really scratching my head on this. They have no comment on the silliest things like was the picture taken that day or we believe he went missing on Friday, yet there are direct and clear about the family is too distraught type of thing. I find this extremely confusing. Unlike the other poster who said she is "dating the ransom theory" LOL loved that line; I am looking at...but only considering coffee at this point. This is such an unbelievable mystery. Who would marry any theory at this point:snooty:
What's BBM?
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 11:40 PM
But how on earth would a person who knew the family and wanted to hurt them think they would just happen to get an opportunity inside of a school, of all places? Unless they are VERY close to family, they would have no way of knowing if SM was going to spend the day at the school, stay for the talent show, etc...and hanging around would be dangerous, if she would recognize them. I'm just not seeing it, but I sure have been wrong in some other cases...
Its not impossible. If they were familiar with the school and its upcoming events, its 'routine', etc, they may have seen a 'window of opportunity'. There is no way of knowing how long this person observed the family, its routine, planned this out and the timing just worked in their favor. For all we know, the alleged abductor may have not even planned for this to go down on the day it did, but the opportunity presented itself and this person just ran with it. jmo
I've read it happening in other abduction cases, where a school (for example) was cased out and a particular student was focused on as the target. Sometimes the abductor will try for days before they succeed with their plans.
Chili Fries
06-09-2010, 11:41 PM
This is about to win my award for one of the most confusing cases ever. I keep going back and forth between he's lost, abducted by a stranger, abducted by someone he knows, held for ransom..etc. I can't figure this out :(
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that law enforcement is feeling the same way to some extent. It's very common for them to run parallel investigations checking out different scenarios.
liz b.
06-09-2010, 11:43 PM
A few weeks ago my son, who is special needs, unlocked a window (because doors were deadbolted for this very reason), crawled out onto the porch, closed window behind him and went on an "adventure". What time he left we don't know, we were still asleep as it was a Sat. morning. When we realized he wasn't in his room asleep it took us less than 5 minutes to realize he wasn't on our property or neighbors property and I called 911. It was over 2 hours later that he was found, about a mile away, wandering in the woods on a old rr bed. He was having a good time and thankfully his only injuries were scratches from vines. LE's dog was on his trail but he was actually found by friends (who were immediately out hunting in droves). That was the longest 2 hours of my life and maybe because I read on here I was thinking in "websleuths mode", I was frantic and crying but I was thinking,,,,,but my experience was less than 3 hours total. Days? I'd need a rubber room. BTW, one of the first things I did was invite deputies into my house to search for anything/everything because as we know the family is always the first suspects.
This case with Kyron really is different from the norm, or either the LE department is bonkers.
Finch,
I've cared for many children like your son. Have you considered putting an alarm on his bedroom door,and windows ? Home Depot sells them.... Just a thought.So glad your boy was found safe,and hope Kyron is too...
CharlestonGal
06-09-2010, 11:44 PM
If they feel Kyron could still be alive and be in the area they are searching...are they leaving water for him as was done in Florida, I wonder, in case they "miss" him? Are they using megaphones or loud speakers from the air? Are they doing any of the things that might help a live child? Of course we don't know, we hear about "cadaver dogs" IIRc and more searchers. Everything I am looking up is indicating that 3-7 days is about it for surviving without water and that maximum is with ideal conditions, no heat or cold etc...also for adults. No info on children that I could find. It has been more than 5 days now and into the 6th night. Very scary.
I'm sure they are leaving water and food. Probably flashlights and communication devices, too. People who are lost and wandering tend to cover the same ground over and over again, so if Kyron is out there it's not impossible that he'll stumble upon supplies.
imamaze
06-09-2010, 11:45 PM
What's BBM?
BBM = Bolded by me
:)
What's BBM?
BBM - bolded by me
scandi
06-09-2010, 11:45 PM
I was under the impression that he was. According to his missing persons flier he was last seen wearing "a black tshirt with CSI in green letters, black cargo pants, white socks, and black sketchers sneakers with orange trim".
(http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1149070&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US)
Thanks Kaylynn, Do you think a boy his age would wear the same shirt 2 days apart to school, unless it was his favorite shirt?
RubyRed
06-09-2010, 11:45 PM
They have a criminal profiler on this case and I believe he told them to release Kyron's artwork as a means to humanize him to the kidnapper. I also believe that everything that LE and the family is saying or not saying is also per the direction of the profiler--that would include LE's statements that the family is free to talk yet the family not talking--it's all being done for a reason. One thing that I find startling that makes me think that it's an abduction is that LE has not stated that they are concerned with Kyron being out in the elements for such an extended period especially with the bad weather they had at the beginning--(and if I am wrong feel free to correct me). I also believe there is a strong possibility that the kidnapper knows the family, knows Kyron, possibly had a prior relationship with him (neighbor? babysitter?) and is a woman.
bbm
That is interesting that you think it is a woman.
Dee10
06-09-2010, 11:46 PM
What's BBM?
Sorry it meant "bolded by me".
SoCalSleuth
06-09-2010, 11:47 PM
But how on earth would a person who knew the family and wanted to hurt them think they would just happen to get an opportunity inside of a school, of all places? Unless they are VERY close to family, they would have no way of knowing if SM was going to spend the day at the school, stay for the talent show, etc...and hanging around would be dangerous, if she would recognize them. I'm just not seeing it, but I sure have been wrong in some other cases...
Perhaps they went to that school, perhaps they had or have a kid in that school, perhaps they work or worked there --and knew security was lax. Perhaps they were watching them and waiting for an opportunity when one presented itself. Not all kidnappers want to hurt the family or the kid, some want a kid for themselves. Not saying or implying that is what happened here, just commenting on your post!
cluciano63
06-09-2010, 11:47 PM
Just out of curiousity, how many cases in the last 10 years have there for ransom? Do people really think they are going to get away with it?
I've been looking this up and can't find any for money, other than a few celebrities kids, since the 30's, in the US...
AlexisFresca
06-09-2010, 11:48 PM
My family and I are locals to the area and my son who is KH's age brought up a very profound point. (this is coming from a little guy) " I think who ever took him needs to know what he likes to do for fun so he does not get too sad being away from his family and that is why they are showing his drawings, that he loves to play soccer and he likes to goof off and have fun." (talking about the photo with the easter basket/truck on his head). So that is my 8 yr olds:twocents:. :) He has been very concerned about this and is scared to go to school.
Awww, bless his heart! The world through a child's eyes is truly precious!
SoCalSleuth
06-09-2010, 11:50 PM
I'm not seeing it either. If you are planning in advance to kidnap for ransom a specific 7 year old child I would think the riskiest plan would be to try it on a very busy morning at school with hundreds of people around.
There are much, much less riskier plans than that.
But what about John Gardner and Amber Dubois? If we belive him, he was driving around Broadway--an extremely busy street during school drop-off hours, with lots of kids walking to school, lots of kids being driven to school, construction work going on....but then he saw an opportunity, one lone kid on a side street--a mere 30 feet from Broadway--and in a flash she was gone.
snarkymalarkey
06-09-2010, 11:54 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/st_helens_police_arrest_man_ac.html
Has this been discussed?
Wise Old Owl
06-09-2010, 11:55 PM
bbm
That is interesting that you think it is a woman.
If you read our astrological thread (they are really very very good) you will see that they have said it is a woman as well.
Have we heard any mention of the grandmothers? On either side? Usually they are there especially to help with the other children.
At this point, I don' think he just wandered away and is lost. What gets me is that the investigation is only local. So they don't believe he ever left the area? Does that mean the town? county? state?
Angel4u2Whisper2
06-09-2010, 11:58 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/st_helens_police_arrest_man_ac.html
Has this been discussed?
I think it has been mentioned. I don't have recall of what threds it was on the board is moving quickly.
How far away is that and did he have access to a car? I guess are my first questions. He has been listed as "homeless". He attempted to grab him while he was walking.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/06/st_helens_police_arrest_man_ac.html
Has this been discussed?
Very interesting! Thanks
If he is homeless, where was he going to go with this kid if he was successful? The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me!
gibby207
06-10-2010, 12:01 AM
They have a criminal profiler on this case and I believe he told them to release Kyron's artwork as a means to humanize him to the kidnapper. I also believe that everything that LE and the family is saying or not saying is also per the direction of the profiler--that would include LE's statements that the family is free to talk yet the family not talking--it's all being done for a reason. One thing that I find startling that makes me think that it's an abduction is that LE has not stated that they are concerned with Kyron being out in the elements for such an extended period especially with the bad weather they had at the beginning--(and if I am wrong feel free to correct me). I also believe there is a strong possibility that the kidnapper knows the family, knows Kyron, possibly had a prior relationship with him (neighbor? babysitter?) and is a woman.
I am strongly agreeing with you here... and a person who knows the family well. I posted that a thread or 2 ago as a feeler and didn't get much response lol. I have to keep my opinions to myself due to forum rules but I agree it's possibly someone they know. Ransom? I dunno, but it's definitely a possibility.
scandi
06-10-2010, 12:02 AM
The reason I would think it was a woman is the focus on Kyron. If she wants him for herself she isn't going to care about the family. She might care about what Kyron needs though.
I just saw a Criminal Minds rerun where a boy about 5 went missing and they profiled it to be a female perp who had recently lost a young child. Sure enough it was. She had him in a big closet area and would take him out to nurse him.
I think it is more rare but does happen.
mamaeb
06-10-2010, 12:05 AM
I really hope all parents and teachers have turned in their cameras from friday... who knows what police may see in the background of a picture or random video. What about school bus video cameras? I know they have them and they can see a bit outside of the bus, such as cars and people right behind the bus.
Also I hope when people are keeping an eye out, they are also looking for him without glasses, squinting. Because that will be the first thing the kidnapper will get rid of, I am sure.
RubyRed
06-10-2010, 12:08 AM
If you read our astrological thread (they are really very very good) you will see that they have said it is a woman as well.
Have we heard any mention of the grandmothers? On either side? Usually they are there especially to help with the other children.
I haven't read it yet. I am going between Kyron's scanner thread and here. I will feel more hopeful for Kyron if it is a woman.
JBean
06-10-2010, 12:11 AM
No problem discussing events, but you are getting dangerously close to accusing the family of something and that is not ok at this time. They are currently potential victims of a crime to their child and I don't know that LE has made any noises about them being connected to the crime.
Please tread lightly. I am not editing or removing anything. I am asking you all to please be thoughtful in your discussion.
of course where this post lands on the thread is entirely random.
mushyb
06-10-2010, 12:11 AM
I too think it could be a women that took Kyron. I think of the Tori Stafford case where she was taken by a woman after school for her and her boyfriends sick needs :(
gibby207
06-10-2010, 12:12 AM
Here's something to mention without getting in trouble (I think): With the mention of those 2 specific cases Kim and Boekhle (which I know about as well as I'm in WA), I had the thought that he may be with someone he knows and possibly camping? What do yawl think?
ETA: Is this okay JBean?
flourish
06-10-2010, 12:18 AM
Another possible motive for kidnapping (aside from $) may be a disgruntled co-worker or former co-worker of someone in the family.
Is it too weird to think maybe it could relate to some of Intel's technology? As in, they aren't targeting this family for money, but for intelligence or something? I used to date a guy who worked at Intel (years ago), and they, understandably, have to keep a lot of info top secret. I know that sounds kind of ridiculously movie-ish, but I'm just brainstorming here.
While I'm rambling...
Has anyone read that Mary Higgins Clark book...something like "Two Girls in Blue" or something? It's about these people who kidnap the twin girls of a family that they mistakenly think has a lot of money and/or resources simply because of where the guy worked and because they had a big house (which was super old and they were renovating)...I never finished reading it because it was kinda slow...but this case keeps reminding me of that...
Up until today I've been leaning towards older student or sibling of a student, but now...I just don't know...
*sigh* :(
Chili Fries
06-10-2010, 12:18 AM
It sounds like the search on Thursday will be the biggest one yet. The sheriff's office says so far they have combed a half mile radius. I find that surprising, I guess it's a testament to just how thick the forested area is.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_enters_sev.html
mommya
06-10-2010, 12:22 AM
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? I sure hope they checked this out!
Has anyone read that Mary Higgins Clark book...something like "Two Girls in Blue" or something? It's about these people who kidnap the twin girls of a family that they mistakenly think has a lot of money and/or resources simply because of where the guy worked and because they had a big house (which was super old and they were renovating)...I never finished reading it because it was kinda slow...but this case keeps reminding me of that...
*sigh* :(
Loved that book!!
Voice4theSilent
06-10-2010, 12:24 AM
Two people on the "Missing KH" FB page have stated the the bio-mom is married to a very well respected and decorated detective. (Don't know if that information has been mentioned yet or not.) I haven't really heard much of anything about Kyron's step father. Interesting if it is true.
mamaeb
06-10-2010, 12:25 AM
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5266106&postcount=506) ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? Isure hope they checked this out!
wow!!
cluciano63
06-10-2010, 12:26 AM
They did say today at the PC that all alleged sightings have been checked out and none were viable...
AlexisFresca
06-10-2010, 12:26 AM
If you read our astrological thread (they are really very very good) you will see that they have said it is a woman as well.
Have we heard any mention of the grandmothers? On either side? Usually they are there especially to help with the other children.
Thanks for the heads up; I did find it. :(
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5266106&postcount=506) ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? I sure hope they checked this out!
Wow! I would sure hope if that was Kyron LE would have noticed him!! Maybe reporter or video guy was who called that in
Miss Justice
06-10-2010, 12:27 AM
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5266106&postcount=506) ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? I sure hope they checked this out!
I honestly think the only thing about the boy in the video that "looks like Kyron" is the fact that he's a little boy with glasses on. Different face, different ears, different hair.
MOO of course.
gibby207
06-10-2010, 12:27 AM
If you read our astrological thread (they are really very very good) you will see that they have said it is a woman as well.
Have we heard any mention of the grandmothers? On either side? Usually they are there especially to help with the other children.
Can you give a girl a hand and help me figger out where in the Astrology forum? Thanks! :D
AlexisFresca
06-10-2010, 12:28 AM
I too think it could be a women that took Kyron. I think of the Tori Stafford case where she was taken by a woman after school for her and her boyfriends sick needs :(
Exactly! Same here.
gibby207
06-10-2010, 12:28 AM
It sounds like the search on Thursday will be the biggest one yet. The sheriff's office says so far they have combed a half mile radius. I find that surprising, I guess it's a testament to just how thick the forested area is.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_enters_sev.html
I agree... which also makes me wonder if some new information came to light as of today even...
butterfly1978
06-10-2010, 12:30 AM
I am on page four of this thread and I'm not sure if the ideas around here have changed since page four, but this irritates me a bit. I stated 3 days ago that I beleived this may be a ransom situation and listed all the reasons why I beleived that, and was quickly shot down. So why all of the sudden have we agreed to entertain this possibility, as it will be imposable for me to go through 7 threads to find what I posted, but I did post where Kyron's dad was a business architect for Intel along with a link.
So I figured I must be crazy thinking such a thing and started looking at other things such as it being a Elizabeth Olten situation, and now you guys are where I was a few days ago... Okay enough of my rant, do we know or is there anyway to find out if there are recent people from Intel who may have been laid off or fired?
Kimster
06-10-2010, 12:32 AM
For those that missed this earlier, JBean made a new sub forum in the Missing! forum. Here's the link to Kyron's media and pic links: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5271285&posted=1#post5271285
SuziQ
06-10-2010, 12:33 AM
I've been looking this up and can't find any for money, other than a few celebrities kids, since the 30's, in the US...
There was the Chowchilla school bus kidnapping. Those perps were nuts to ever think they would get away with that.
Wendy101
06-10-2010, 12:34 AM
Me too Lava, but am wondering why she thinks the unsub is a woman unless she lost a child and Kyron reminds her of him.
Or it's a woman green with envy of the SM?
Maybe that is why SM (to some people) appears to be adjusting well, going to the gym, not changing the FB pic to a picture of Kyron insead of her lil girl.
Maybe the criminal profiler suggested to the SM not to react in an irrational manner.
Maybe that is why there is no family in the media..
Maybe sending the picture out of the squirrel, was a message to Kyron, from the SM, that she loves him?
Maybe if the step-mother got onto the TV bawling, crying and pleading, it would only add more fuel to the fire... To see her face on TV might push whoever took Kyron over the edge?
OK, I'm done guessing now...
mamaeb
06-10-2010, 12:37 AM
am I allowed to post links to comments from Kyron's aunt?
nanny2five
06-10-2010, 12:38 AM
My family and I are locals to the area and my son who is KH's age brought up a very profound point. (this is coming from a little guy) " I think who ever took him needs to know what he likes to do for fun so he does not get too sad being away from his family and that is why they are showing his drawings, that he loves to play soccer and he likes to goof off and have fun." (talking about the photo with the easter basket/truck on his head). So that is my 8 yr olds:twocents:. :) He has been very concerned about this and is scared to go to school.
what a sensitive and smart little guy you have! they do pay attention and understand more than we realize :) i bet he's a little dandy!
Angel4u2Whisper2
06-10-2010, 12:38 AM
Zaha
That is possiable but I recall the family released aprox. 50 photographs of the family so that would kinda cause the woman the greenest eyes you ever seen because it would be of the family she wished she had if that were the case?
SoCalSleuth
06-10-2010, 12:40 AM
Obviously, we are all speculating here, perhaps wild speculation at that. My theories are either this was a kidnapping for ransom gone awry--ie perhaps a mixup (rare, yes, but it has been known to happen) or that someone close or familiar with the family (female) took him. Both theories are based on the bizarre behavior of LE in this case. They could be inept because they don't have much, if any, experience in these matters--but the FBI would have corrected that pretty early on. As far as has been reported, Kyron wasn't wearing a jacket, and it's been raining and cold (about 55 degrees at night)--yet they haven't commented on hypothermia or showed any concern related to his being subject to the elements for an extended period, or at all. Further, if the elements were a concern (and they should be if he is lost in the woods) & they were looking for a "live Kyron" they would have stepped-up the search, as they did today, much earlier. That's why I think they know or believe he was kidnapped. (Of course, they could believe he is deceased which would also explain their behavior but I hate to go there just yet--the Sheriff got me at "We're going to bring you home, buddy.") Most crimes are committed by people that know the victim--that is why LE first looks to the immediate family and then from there looks in degrees of familiarity with the victim. I believe a young boy would be more willing to walk off with a female than with a male--even if he knew the male. I think it is more probable than not that a woman might "blend" easier in a crowd than a male; that others would not take much notice of a woman with a young boy. Women that cannot have children of their own most often kidnap babies but also young children. Both are rare, but it happens. I am positive the artwork pix were to humanize him to the kidnapper per the profile (they may not know who it is but believe they have a profile of who it is) and that art pictures would strike a chord more in a woman than a male. I also believe that per the profiler, LE is communicating with the kidnapper at these press conferences --and what they have been saying leads me to believe they think it's a woman.
Kimster
06-10-2010, 12:44 AM
am I allowed to post links to comments from Kyron's aunt?
If they are from the mainstream media, yes :)
mamaeb
06-10-2010, 12:46 AM
If they are from the mainstream media, yes :)
Ok I hope I am linking this right.. and of course it's 4 days ago so this may have been posted
http://www.katu.com/news/local/95669809.html#idc-container
You can read a post there by "kittysaunt" who claims to be kyrons aunt
gibby207
06-10-2010, 12:47 AM
Obviously, we are all speculating here, perhaps wild speculation at that. My theories are either this was a kidnapping for ransom gone awry--ie perhaps a mixup (rare, yes, but it has been known to happen) or that someone close or familiar with the family (female) took him. Both theories are based on the bizarre behavior of LE in this case. They could be inept because they don't have much, if any, experience in these matters--but the FBI would have corrected that pretty early on. As far as has been reported, Kyron wasn't wearing a jacket, and it's been raining and cold (about 55 degrees at night)--yet they haven't commented on hypothermia or showed any concern related to his being subject to the elements for an extended period, or at all. Further, if the elements were a concern (and they should be if he is lost in the woods) & they were looking for a "live Kyron" they would have stepped-up the search, as they did today, much earlier. That's why I think they know or believe he was kidnapped. (Of course, they could believe he is deceased which would also explain their behavior but I hate to go there just yet--the Sheriff got me at "We're going to bring you home, buddy.") Most crimes are committed by people that know the victim--that is why LE first looks to the immediate family and then from there looks in degrees of familiarity with the victim. I believe a young boy would be more willing to walk off with a female than with a male--even if he knew the male. I think it is more probable than not that a woman might "blend" easier in a crowd than a male; that others would not take much notice of a woman with a young boy. Woman that cannot have children of their own most often kidnap babies but also young children. Both are rare, but it happens. I am positive the artwork pix were to humanize him to the kidnapper per the profile (they may not know who it is but believe they have a profile of who it is) and that art pictures would strike a chord more in a woman than a male. I also believe that per the profiler, LE is communicating with the kidnapper at these press conferences --and what they have been saying leads me to believe they think it's a woman.
Well, I don't have to post my thoughts because you just did in a nice neat lil' bow. lol We don't have much to sleuth on, folks, so it's just down to speculation and throwing theories out in the wind.
I would also like to throw out there how much different does everyone think the LE/FBI response in searching Kyron would be if they believed it were a stranger abduction? I'm inclined to believe (or hope, really) that they would warn the community more if it were a stranger abduction. Loose lips sink ships, and maybe LE's got this thing nailed. I'm more hopeful today, at least, that we are looking for a live Kylon (thankfully).
butterfly1978
06-10-2010, 12:47 AM
There was the Chowchilla school bus kidnapping. Those perps were nuts to ever think they would get away with that.
I am checking for child abductions involving ransoms, and how Fbi handles this, the only thing that I can really find is that in child abductions involving ransom CARD is called in, which we already knew, will continue to look.
carole
06-10-2010, 12:49 AM
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5266106&postcount=506) ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? I sure hope they checked this out!
Wow, that is quite chilling to see, especially because of the info coming in from the scanner.
crocus
06-10-2010, 12:51 AM
How about a scenario where he was asked to help carry something in to the school from a car?
gibby207
06-10-2010, 12:52 AM
How about a scenario where he was asked to help carry something in to the school from a car?
Helping a friend... good angle...
cluciano63
06-10-2010, 12:53 AM
I think they figure they need to clear that area tomorrow so they plan to have the biggest search to get that done.
Sadly, it was Sunday, wasn't it, when he said the thing about bringing Kyron home? And now it is almost Thursday...hard to believe.
I think every possible theory has been put out on these threads...what could have happened that has not been listed here? And many of the things presented would not have been, if we had even one clue. But we don't, so it goes round and round.
At this point, I do not have even an opinion as to what has happened. Everything LE has said and done has done more to clear my head of theories than it has to help me to think of any that seem possible. But the ones I am not feeling, personally, are kidnaping for any kind of revenge/money/espionage or that a minor has done something to him. That's just based on personal feelings, obviously, nothing else it can be based on.
Kokopelli
06-10-2010, 12:55 AM
I won't quote my own thread, but I posted earlier about my feeling that Kyron's case is one revolving around a kidnapping and ransom. But, I feel that I need to clarify that a little as I don't necessarily feel those terms adequately describe the "vibe", so to speak, I'm getting about this case.
I strongly feel Kyron did not wander off. And, if I am wrong and he did go off looking for a tree frog, moss, or something else, I feel as though he was abducted along the way. But, generally speaking, I don't think that is the case. LE has stated that they feel Kyron's situation is an isolated incident. I believe that only because I feel as though Kyron was targeted specifically. That is not to say that I don't think this same scenario could play out involving another child. I think he was both a target and seen as an opportunity. I also feel that he does know his abductor. This is either someone known to him, in my belief, in a casual way. More specifically, this is someone he is aquainted enough with to leave the school grounds with -- either a minor or a female (or a combination therein). And, thus, this is someone who wouldn't particularly stand out in a school during an event such as a science fair. In my opinion, this is also why LE (and possibly the family -- I do not feel the immediate family is suspect) may be "speaking" to the abductor during press conferences as well as during their investigation. I don't necessarily feel the kidnapper is looking for money. I think it's something more nefariousthan that. Either something has happened in their lives to trigger them to want to take a child or this has something to do with a vendetta, real or fictitious. While money may play a part, I don't get the feeling that it is the basis for the "ransom."
The fact that we would potentially be dealing with a minor or a woman gives me hope that Kyron is still alive. I feel women or juveniles are more apt to keep the child alive and safe than a male predator. I can be wrong (and have been in the past), but this is just the general feel I get for the case. There are many scenarios. Did this woman or minor feel that she was possibly in a relationship with the bio-father or the mother's husband? Since I don't think the family is involved, this "romance" would be concocted in her own mind and not reciprocated. If her advances were shot down, is it a stretch to think she would take what is most important to the object of her affection? This is just one scenario among hundreds, but it is one that has not been discussed (some of my other thoughts have been talked about already) and is viable in my mind. Another possibility would be someone linked to the step-mother. Is this potential woman abductor jealous of TH or Kyron's bio-mom? Or, perhaps, it is a female-male team and they are after money, goods, or information? Even if that were the case, my gut would tell me that the woman may keep Kyron alive and care for him. Right now, I am strongly leaning toward the above possibilities.
No matter what, LE is doing all that they feel is necessary to help Kyron. I may not understand or agree with their tactics, but they are the professionals, not me. I also feel the family's every move is being made for them -- perhaps by profilers. I don't get the feeling they are involved at all and, rather, at this point, are as desperate as ever to get their little boy back. I think LE knows more than they're letting on and I think the media may be in on the game. Either way, I hope we can bring Kyron home as soon as possible. He needs to be with his family.
For the LE, FBI, searchers, family, and friends...may God watch over you and precious Kyron. I have hope tonight and just pray that you do not give up on Kyron or his situation. Thank you for all you're doing for Kyron. And, to those of us here, thank you as well. Together, we can help Kyron return to those who love him most.
Emma Peel
06-10-2010, 12:56 AM
I am on page four of this thread and I'm not sure if the ideas around here have changed since page four, but this irritates me a bit. I stated 3 days ago that I beleived this may be a ransom situation and listed all the reasons why I beleived that, and was quickly shot down. So why all of the sudden have we agreed to entertain this possibility, as it will be imposable for me to go through 7 threads to find what I posted, but I did post where Kyron's dad was a business architect for Intel along with a link.
So I figured I must be crazy thinking such a thing and started looking at other things such as it being a Elizabeth Olten situation, and now you guys are where I was a few days ago... Okay enough of my rant, do we know or is there anyway to find out if there are recent people from Intel who may have been laid off or fired?
lol butterfly! keep reading. :angel:
I looked & saw nothing about layoffs at Intel. In fact, it seems they managed to avoid layoffs in 08-09 even from what I'm reading...
liz b.
06-10-2010, 12:57 AM
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5266106&postcount=506) ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? I sure hope they checked this out!
What I find somewhat startling is when the reporter says that " LE thinks that what happened to Kyron is an isolated incident,and other children are not at risk " This is probably not a sexual predator then. It does not leave many other scenarios. Kidnapping ? Might well be. But,the logistics are difficult. It would take some planning to do it,and it would take brains too. For what motive ? Could it be business related ? I never speculate about family members of missing persons. So that leaves me with ? Kyron ran off into the woods.... Unlikely IMO,because LE would be more forthcoming. I have no kids aged 7 any more. Does anyone know how common is it for kids this age to have their own cell phone ? Hope tomorrow brings answers and some good news. ....
mysticrose
06-10-2010, 12:57 AM
OK - last night or yesterday poster Tarabull chimed in from the scanner thread about hearing of a possible sighting of missing child in a white VW (link - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OR OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5266106&postcount=506) ) then LE switched to nextels so that she could not hear the rest - I dont know what became of it - but.....
I was just perusing IS boards and came across some folks talking about the kid in this vid looking like Kyron ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4p2VK2AYTM )
- near the end at 1:07 - and lo and behold - the car looks like a white VW.
Pic of white VW for comparison - notice the mirrors...
http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/VW-Beetle-White-400.jpg
Could be an innocent explanation I suppose? Just a kid who looks a lot like Kyron? I sure hope they checked this out!
Thank you for posting this ! I think the boy looks enough like Kyron that this should be sent into LE. Has anyone from here submitted this ? Even if they get it 100 times it is better then them not getting it at all kwim....
Wise Old Owl
06-10-2010, 12:58 AM
Can you give a girl a hand and help me figger out where in the Astrology forum? Thanks! :D
Here ya go - starts at post 795
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79041&page=32
gibby207
06-10-2010, 01:02 AM
Here ya go - starts at post 795
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79041&page=32
:blowkiss::blowkiss: Thank ya kindly, SWAG :D
Calliope
06-10-2010, 01:02 AM
No matter what, LE is doing all that they feel is necessary to help Kyron. I may not understand or agree with their tactics, but they are the professionals, not me. I also feel the family's every move is being made for them -- perhaps by profilers. I don't get the feeling they are involved at all and, rather, at this point, are as desperate as ever to get their little boy back. I think LE knows more than they're letting on and I think the media may be in on the game. Either way, I hope we can bring Kyron home as soon as possible. He needs to be with his family.
(snipped)
bbm
I agree. I think the FBI experts are calling the shots regarding what family does, and probably what LE is releasing (or rather not releasing) to media.
crocus
06-10-2010, 01:03 AM
I have pretty much kept up reading this thread, but, has it been noticed in the 2 photos from that morning, the one of Kyron's project alone and the one of him standing with his science fair project, there are clearly other people in the room?
cluciano63
06-10-2010, 01:05 AM
That is a pretty flashy car, sure to be noticed, for anyone trying to drive around with a missing child, IMO but I guess anything is possible...
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