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View Full Version : TMH's friend claims she will do 2nd polygraph


mamaeb
06-19-2010, 04:44 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
"Friend says Terri Moulton Horman is scheduled to take another polygraph in disappearance of Kyron Horman"

this was originally posted here
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SM as a potential focus of the investigation #2

but I thought I would make it a thread so no one misses it

pufnstuf
06-19-2010, 04:51 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
"Friend says Terri Moulton Horman is scheduled to take another polygraph in disappearance of Kyron Horman"

this was originally posted here
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SM as a potential focus of the investigation #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5309513&postcount=322)

but I thought I would make it a thread so no one misses it

But she's not a person of interest. :waitasec: Or is she?

(I don't think she'll ever be called a POI or a suspect. She'll go from being "Terri - stepmom" to "Terri - defendant.")

DairyGirl
06-19-2010, 05:03 AM
I am glad that LE is doing polygraphs. I am sure that is basic stuff but since it was never announced you never know. I wonder if anyone else has taken a LDT and if they had to repeat any. Since they can't be used in a trial I don't think they could arrest her if she fails but they can use it to put more pressure on her. Pressure she is obviously feeling.
Jaymie Finster, a longtime friend, said Horman is "tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."
From the above link.
I am sure the questions are getting more intense. Maybe, if she did this she will confess.

scandi
06-19-2010, 05:33 AM
I am glad that LE is doing polygraphs. I am sure that is basic stuff but since it was never announced you never know. I wonder if anyone else has taken a LDT and if they had to repeat any. Since they can't be used in a trial I don't think they could arrest her if she fails but they can use it to put more pressure on her. Pressure she is obviously feeling.

From the above link.
I am sure the questions are getting more intense. Maybe, if she did this she will confess.
Well I know what I'll be doing tomoz. Studying the case and hoping for good news about Kyron after a good night's sleep..

Manyana Peeps

Dee10
06-19-2010, 07:30 AM
OMG from her friend, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything" is reminding me of Misty and ironically "3:30" for the bus. What is it with 3's? :doh:

hollye
06-19-2010, 07:30 AM
I can understand being tired, but frustrated? If my child were missing, I would be agreeing to anything and everything that the police asked of me, so as to help them in any way possible find my child. I would not be frustrated.

pufnstuf
06-19-2010, 07:37 AM
OMG from her friend, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything" is reminding me of Misty and ironically "3:30" for the bus. What is it with 3's? :doh:

The threes are unbelievable in the Kyron case. Sooo many threes.

Dee10
06-19-2010, 07:45 AM
Jaymie Finster, a longtime friend, said Horman is "tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."

Sounds like she doesn't have a lawyer...yet. I trust they will keep the pressure on.

Bee Charmer
06-19-2010, 07:52 AM
OMG from her friend, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything" is reminding me of Misty and ironically "3:30" for the bus. What is it with 3's? :doh:

Her whining about being asked questions about Kryron who is missing is right up there with telling her FB friends she's hitting the gym, in my opinion.

Something is very wrong and the only reason for a second polygraph, is that something wasn't right with the first one, imo.

tehcloser
06-19-2010, 07:59 AM
I'm glad her "friend" told us about the SECOND poly since we weren't sure she had even taken the first one.........

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 08:10 AM
OMG from her friend, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything" is reminding me of Misty and ironically "3:30" for the bus. What is it with 3's? :doh:

I don't think she expected them to "keep asking me stuff". After all, Kyron was at school when he disappeared. I imagine she thought (planned) they'd be grilling the school, not her. She's probably frustrated because she was expecting a pity party not an interrogation.

TrialAddict
06-19-2010, 08:14 AM
FOX just reported she was taking the 2nd poly. Wonder how they confirmed it was true?
They didt'n say a friend of hers said she was. Just that they know she will take a 2nd one

"we now know the step mom in the case of the missing 7 year, Kyron Horman has been asked to take a 2nd polygraph..."

mom_of_five
06-19-2010, 08:14 AM
Her whining about being asked questions about Kryron who is missing is right up there with telling her FB friends she's hitting the gym, in my opinion.

Something is very wrong and the only reason for a second polygraph, is that something wasn't right with the first one, imo.

My thoughts exactly. UNLESS they want to ask her different questions than asked on the first. BBM

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 08:16 AM
"Horman told Finster, "I just don't know what's going on. This is what I did that day."

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."

Well, well, well. We were right about that, too. The teacher "misunderstood".

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Black Frost
06-19-2010, 08:17 AM
I can understand being tired, but frustrated? If my child were missing, I would be agreeing to anything and everything that the police asked of me, so as to help them in any way possible find my child. I would not be frustrated.

Yes. But I'm afraid this woman keeps spelling out for us just how differently she might be wired. I, for one, am appreciating her complete inability to mask her true self. While she may not be forthcoming with concrete details about her movements that day or where, if and when asked, the child can be found, she's giving a veritable road map of her psyche. I'm not the least bit surprised to hear all of these efforts to find this boy, as they relate to her, are, essentially, an irritant.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 08:19 AM
FOX just reported she was taking the 2nd poly. Wonder how they confirmed it was true?
They didt'n say a friend of hers said she was. Just that they know she will take a 2nd one

"we now know the step mom in the case of the missing 7 year, Kyron Horman has been asked to take a 2nd polygraph..."

"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

I think that's where they get the idea that Terri has already taken at least one polygraph.

Dee10
06-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Good Morning America is have another segment on this case coming up.

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 08:32 AM
"Horman told Finster, "I just don't know what's going on. This is what I did that day."

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."

Well, well, well. We were right about that, too. The teacher "misunderstood".

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
Apparantly there was no alarm when the teacher marked him absent.I really don't think it had anything to do with the teacher having hard of hearing and heard it wrong.I feel and believe the teacher thought it was for friday the 4th for a reason.Did the paper work have the date the appointment was suppose to be on it?

I'm also very curious of what this Dr appointment was for and what time was it going to be for.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 08:34 AM
Yes. But I'm afraid this woman keeps spelling out for us just how differently she might be wired. I, for one, am appreciating her complete inability to mask her true self. While she may not be forthcoming with concrete details about her movements that day or where, if and when asked, the child can be found, she's giving a veritable road map of her psyche. I'm not the least bit surprised to hear all of these efforts to find this boy, as they relate to her, are, essentially, an irritant.

I agree. "I can't understand why they keep asking me stuff"? Really? A 7 year old child under your care is missing and you don't understand why the police would keep asking you stuff? This is projection at its most basic.

Perhaps since she didn't want Kyron around she can't understand how anyone else can possibly want to find him. She probably really is perplexed by that. She was good, just moseying on over to the gym - so why doesn't everyone else just mosey along about their business as well?

tk71texas
06-19-2010, 08:35 AM
the lack of information is driving me nuts and now "a friend" speaks out......i just cannot grasp this whole deal......grrrrrr

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 08:41 AM
Apparantly there was no alarm when the teacher marked him absent.I really don't think it had anything to do with the teacher having hard of hearing and heard it wrong.I feel and believe the teacher thought it was for friday the 4th for a reason.Did the paper work have the date the appointment was suppose to be on it?

I'm also very curious of what this Dr appointment was for.

If there is such "paperwork" about the appointment, I suspect it was a note that Kyron had an appointment for "Friday", as in, "Kyron has a medical appointment Friday at 9:30 a.m.). Since she gave it to the teacher on Thursday, I imagine the teacher thought it was for Friday, the next day, not the following Friday, the 11th. Which is exactly what I think TM wanted the teacher to think.

I would bet further that Kyron really DID have an appointment (dentist, pediatrician, optometrist) scheduled for Friday the 11th. TM thought she'd thought of everything.

SnoopyGal
06-19-2010, 08:41 AM
Yes. But I'm afraid this woman keeps spelling out for us just how differently she might be wired. I, for one, am appreciating her complete inability to mask her true self. While she may not be forthcoming with concrete details about her movements that day or where, if and when asked, the child can be found, she's giving a veritable road map of her psyche. I'm not the least bit surprised to hear all of these efforts to find this boy, as they relate to her, are, essentially, an irritant.

So true. The way that these comments by the friend are presented it is as if she has been "put upon" and "inconvenienced" by the interviews. How is this a natural reaction when a loved one is missing and you were the last to see them and most acquainted with their daily routine? Still, I'm surprised this "frustration" is being voiced aloud considering she's married to the missing person's father. I can't imagine being in his shoes - your child is missing and there is all of this speculation about your spouse's involvement whirling about everywhere.

s_finch
06-19-2010, 08:47 AM
So now we know for sure there were polygraphs given before today and it is assumable that they were given to all four parents. And apparently, don't know for sure, no one else has been asked to take a second but I wouldn't be surprised if Kaine isn't yet asked to. KH's resume, actions of "hitting the gym", demeaner/actions during family presser, "inconsistencies", the flyer, 2nd poly, and knowing she was last to see him just give me more reason to believe my initial thoughts in this case.

LE is just building pressure on her.

s_finch
06-19-2010, 08:48 AM
Still, I'm surprised this "frustration" is being voiced aloud considering she's married to the missing person's father. I can't imagine being in his shoes - your child is missing and there is all of this speculation about your spouse's involvement whirling about everywhere.

snipped and bbm

Something about Kaine's actions don't ring true with me either but I might not should post that.

Black Frost
06-19-2010, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Ms Suzanne
Apparantly there was no alarm when the teacher marked him absent.I really don't think it had anything to do with the teacher having hard of hearing and heard it wrong.I feel and believe the teacher thought it was for friday the 4th for a reason.Did the paper work have the date the appointment was suppose to be on it?

I wonder if Terri's 11's look like 4's.

Morag
06-19-2010, 08:55 AM
If there is such "paperwork" about the appointment, I suspect it was a note that Kyron had an appointment for "Friday", as in, "Kyron has a medical appointment Friday at 9:30 a.m.). Since she gave it to the teacher on Thursday, I imagine the teacher thought it was for Friday, the next day, not the following Friday, the 11th. Which is exactly what I think TM wanted the teacher to think.

I would bet further that Kyron really DID have an appointment (dentist, pediatrician, optometrist) scheduled for Friday the 11th. TM thought she'd thought of everything.

School would be out in a few days. Why take him out of class on one of the final sessions?

Dee10
06-19-2010, 08:59 AM
snipped and bbm

Something about Kaine's actions don't ring true with me either but I might not should post that.

There has been one red flag after another in this case for me...they just keep piling up. :snooty: But I remind myself of the red flags, two polys etc. in the Victoria Stafford case, the police even arranged an elaborate sting against the mother...in the end it was the rare stranger abduction. I don't think that will be the case here, but....

ETA I never feel guilty though for having an opinion.

TripleA
06-19-2010, 09:05 AM
"Horman told Finster, "I just don't know what's going on. This is what I did that day."

Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

Finster said that when Kyron didn't show up at the bus the afternoon of June 4, Horman talked to the teacher who said she thought that Horman had taken Kyron to the doctor that day. Horman told Finster that the child's teacher was new, in her first year of teaching, and was hard of hearing in one ear. "She doesn't know if she understood her," Finster said."
[/COLOR]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

It makes no sense for a mom to make a non-emergency appointment on the same day as the science fair and talent show. And if she had paperwork to give the teacher to fill out, wouldn't that indicate that the appointment was at a later date. It would to me.

I am not making any excuses for TH or placing blame on the teacher, I am actually thinking that the teacher simply told LE that TH had mentioned the Friday appointment and that she wasn't sure which at that moment for which Friday the appointment was scheduled.

I am just thinking about how I handle things. I often drop my kids off or get them on the bus and then call or email the office/teacher back for clarification. So if I took my 7yo in for the science fair and went home for the day, then I would probably email the teacher later to say "Hey, when do you want the projects picked up?" And if I had an appointment scheduled that required a teacher to fill out paperwork, then I would probably not give it to her on the day of the appointment, I would give it to her a week in advance. If my child was not actually in the talent show (which I have seen no solid confirmation that Kyron was performing some grand solo act) then I would likely not attend unless I had absolutely no other obligations at all.

My reasoning comes from a combination of 20+ school years that my kids have collectively attended public school, in addition to having student taught for several semesters during my BA days. Having 15-20 students and their parents bombarding you everyday with questions, needs, concerns, etc. can be overwhelming. It is better to be sent an email for non-emergency questions and it is great to have advanced notice when a form needs filling out. Since TH taught at one point then I am sure she is aware and not the typical parent.

Also, this could be the teacher's first full semester with her own classroom. Again, not supporting or making excuses for anyone, just trying to think reasonably about how my days go normally and how I handle situations.

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:06 AM
I wonder if Terri's 11's look like 4's.
I'm thinking the paper work didn't have a date on it.

oceanblueeyes
06-19-2010, 09:18 AM
I am glad that LE is doing polygraphs. I am sure that is basic stuff but since it was never announced you never know. I wonder if anyone else has taken a LDT and if they had to repeat any. Since they can't be used in a trial I don't think they could arrest her if she fails but they can use it to put more pressure on her. Pressure she is obviously feeling.

From the above link.
I am sure the questions are getting more intense. Maybe, if she did this she will confess.

Well it sure explains why Gates chuckled when asked had polys been given. Of course they had. That is investigation 101.

So it tells me she did not fail the first one but now in this phase of the investigation LE is going to want to go back and give polygraphs all over again.

I sure hope that includes everyone they previously gave one too and not just Terri Horman.

However I have had to take a LDT before and I was so nervous I thought the machine would register my blood pressure which was up because I had never taken one before and worried they would find me lying about something when I wasnt but the government said I passed.

So I hope that the stress does not give a false reading like it did when Archie Lunsford, Ruth Lunsford and Steve Greone took theirs.

IMO

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:21 AM
Apparantly it looks like more than just a polygraph is not adding up.I wish I knew what.

PoppyH
06-19-2010, 09:23 AM
Im thinking something was not right with the first poly, why take another if the first one was ok??

tehcloser
06-19-2010, 09:25 AM
Im thinking something was not right with the first poly, why take another if the first one was ok??


Bingo. They suspect she's lying or there would be no need for the second one.

Dee10
06-19-2010, 09:30 AM
2nd poly might be as innocent as new questions or she flunked the lst one, but whatever the reason; all we know from the friend is they are asking her for a 2nd one. Another RED flag added to my hinky meter JMHO.

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:30 AM
Bingo. They suspect she's lying or there would be no need for the second one.
yes,I guess not everything was a rumor out there or some rumors were somewhat correct.

believe09
06-19-2010, 09:30 AM
"If at first you don't succeed, try try again..."

believe09
06-19-2010, 09:33 AM
polygraphs are an investigative tool-rarely are they admissable and the results can be skewed by medication, hyperventilating etc...You cannot be compelled to take one. So I suppose my question would be why did she take one? Unless she was feeling compelled because biomom, stepdad, biodad took them...SPECULATION and jmo.

believe09
06-19-2010, 09:35 AM
yes,I guess not everything was a rumor out there or some rumors were somewhat correct.

To this point, until it was legitimized by LE or reputable news sources, it was still a rumor. I am visiting CT today, and my Mom's well respected local paper is carrying the Kyron story, but their source is the Wilamette article. :waitasec:

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:36 AM
polygraphs are an investigative tool-rarely are they admissable and the results can be skewed by medication, hyperventilating etc...You cannot be compelled to take one. So I suppose my question would be why did she take one? Unless she was feeling compelled because biomom, stepdad, biodad took them...SPECULATION and jmo.
Yes.I am hoping these polygraphs lead LE to where little Kyron is.

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:38 AM
To this point, until it was legitimized by LE or reputable news sources, it was still a rumor. I am visiting CT today, and my Mom's well respected local paper is carrying the Kyron story, but their source is the Wilamette article. :waitasec:
Personally I believe the rumor.I believe a few of the rumors.

oceanblueeyes
06-19-2010, 09:44 AM
Personally I believe the rumor.I believe a few of the rumors.

I choose to believe the actual words of LE who really knows the case.

IMO

raeann
06-19-2010, 09:45 AM
It makes no sense for a mom to make a non-emergency appointment on the same day as the science fair and talent show. And if she had paperwork to give the teacher to fill out, wouldn't that indicate that the appointment was at a later date. It would to me.

I am not making any excuses for TH or placing blame on the teacher, I am actually thinking that the teacher simply told LE that TH had mentioned the Friday appointment and that she wasn't sure which at that moment for which Friday the appointment was scheduled.

I am just thinking about how I handle things. I often drop my kids off or get them on the bus and then call or email the office/teacher back for clarification. So if I took my 7yo in for the science fair and went home for the day, then I would probably email the teacher later to say "Hey, when do you want the projects picked up?" And if I had an appointment scheduled that required a teacher to fill out paperwork, then I would probably not give it to her on the day of the appointment, I would give it to her a week in advance. If my child was not actually in the talent show (which I have seen no solid confirmation that Kyron was performing some grand solo act) then I would likely not attend unless I had absolutely no other obligations at all.

My reasoning comes from a combination of 20+ school years that my kids have collectively attended public school, in addition to having student taught for several semesters during my BA days. Having 15-20 students and their parents bombarding you everyday with questions, needs, concerns, etc. can be overwhelming. It is better to be sent an email for non-emergency questions and it is great to have advanced notice when a form needs filling out. Since TH taught at one point then I am sure she is aware and not the typical parent.

Also, this could be the teacher's first full semester with her own classroom. Again, not supporting or making excuses for anyone, just trying to think reasonably about how my days go normally and how I handle situations.

You made some very good points of logic here!

Any medical appointment that required some kind of paperwork from the teacher was not just a routine appointment. It was some sort of evaluation that probably was made months in advance at the Dr.'s available time, not by her choice. Plus that Friday (11th) was also one of the school's end of the year activities day, and any end of the year day such as that contains little academic content.

All in all, it's pretty obvious that any paperwork given on a Thursday was not expected to be completed and in to the Dr. by the next school day which involved such a chaotic and active schedule. Once again, simple logic.

oceanblueeyes
06-19-2010, 09:48 AM
Im thinking something was not right with the first poly, why take another if the first one was ok??

They may want to ask her further questions than they did on the first one.

Even though her friend says that Terri is upset about it no where have I seen where she is refusing to take it again and she certainly has ever right to refuse and if she thinks they are targeting her it would be more logical to tell them she had already taken one and she isnt going to take another one.

IMO

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:49 AM
I choose to believe the actual words of LE who really knows the case.

IMO
I do too.But I do look at everything in little Kyrons case.

oceanblueeyes
06-19-2010, 09:50 AM
You made some very good points of logic here!

Any medical appointment that required some kind of paperwork from the teacher was not just a routine appointment. It was some sort of evaluation that probably was made months in advance at the Dr.'s available time, not by her choice. Plus that Friday (11th) was also one of the school's end of the year activities day, and any end of the year day such as that contains little academic content.

All in all, it's pretty obvious that any paperwork given on a Thursday was not expected to be completed and in to the Dr. by the next school day which involved such a chaotic and active schedule. Once again, simple logic.

And it is easily verifiable when the actual appointment really was. I always tried to give the teachers advance notice.

IMO

ElizaAvalon
06-19-2010, 09:53 AM
Hmm... could be any combination of failed, walked out on, etc.

No need for a 2nd if you completed and passed the first, IMO...

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 09:56 AM
I'm curious is anyone else getting another polygraph test?I am also curious who all took one.

eyes4crime
06-19-2010, 09:57 AM
Every time I log on there is something new...jeeze. 2 lie detector tests that will tell them nothing - not admissible in court and can be affected by medication, anxiety, response to stress etc.

Wish LE would just bring Terri in and interrogate her like they would do to anyone else. Sending out questionnaires, maps, being silent, closed mouthed, isn't working - bring her in.

Whining about her frustration with the investigation with her child gone is simply outrageous...sounds like she is saying...poor me moo mho

SleuthyGal
06-19-2010, 10:01 AM
Polygraphs can have a 3rd category: "inconclusive"

I bet that's what happened in TMH's first poly.

raeann
06-19-2010, 10:01 AM
Bingo. They suspect she's lying or there would be no need for the second one.

I asked my detective neighbor...we walked our dogs together this am.....he said that most polygraph exams are a very limited number of questions. After an intense two week investigation, new questions come up. Also, in cases like this one, VERY often family members have received sleep or anxiety medications early on and this causes inconclusive results. In his opinion, this is not unusual to do another one at a later time.

jmoo

BrendaStar
06-19-2010, 10:06 AM
Well, that explains why the teacher marked him absent and wasn't concerned about him being gone. She thought that he was at a doctor's appointment. Why scheduele a doctor's appointment the same day as the science fair and the talent show?

She sure wanted to let everyone know he was there by taking a picture of him and then immediately putting it on her Facebook account. I wonder what time it registered that she did that.

Poor kid. Sounds like he didn't have a chance.

swa
06-19-2010, 10:10 AM
I'm going to make an educated guess and say at this time next week -- SM will have a lawyer.

I wonder if she will be able to play Facebook games like Family Feud in jail?

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 10:12 AM
Well, that explains why the teacher marked him absent and wasn't concerned about him being gone. She thought that he was at a doctor's appointment. Why scheduele a doctor's appointment the same day as the science fair and the talent show?

She sure wanted to let everyone know he was there by taking a picture of him and then immediately putting it on her Facebook account. I wonder what time it registered that she did that.
Poor kid. Sounds like he didn't have a chance.



BBM. IIRC, it was around 1 - 1:30 p.m. on Friday, 4 hours after Kyron "disappeared" from the school.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm going to make an educated guess and say at this time next week -- SM will have a lawyer.

I wonder if she will be able to play Facebook games like Family Feud in jail?

I'm shocked she doesn't have a lawyer already. On the other hand, I don't think she ever dreamed this situation would play out this way. I think she really believed that LE would focus solely on the school and the surrounding woods, like they did the first few days. I don't think she really thought they would even look at her, much less focus on her like this.

Now she's between a rock and a hard place. Should she continue the "innocent bystander" ruse, or should she lawyer up? I bet trying to make that decision is keeping her awake at night. She's now in a darned if you do/darned if you don't situation that I do not think she ever envisioned or planned for.

raeann
06-19-2010, 10:20 AM
Well, that explains why the teacher marked him absent and wasn't concerned about him being gone. She thought that he was at a doctor's appointment. Why scheduele a doctor's appointment the same day as the science fair and the talent show?

She sure wanted to let everyone know he was there by taking a picture of him and then immediately putting it on her Facebook account. I wonder what time it registered that she did that.

Poor kid. Sounds like he didn't have a chance.

LOL........within the last two days, both one of my friends and my niece posted play by plays of one of their daughters swim meets and the other daughters softball game on their FB....WHILE they were there!!!!!! By the next time I clicked open my account BOTH of them had pictures of the events posted. Are you saying that I should therefore by doing a check on the well fare of these two girls???

LNL
06-19-2010, 10:21 AM
Her whining about being asked questions about Kryron who is missing is right up there with telling her FB friends she's hitting the gym, in my opinion.

Something is very wrong and the only reason for a second polygraph, is that something wasn't right with the first one, imo.
Or maybe the investigation has revealed new information that they can ask her about and see if her answers are truthful.

mike_oxbig1414
06-19-2010, 10:21 AM
FB got her caught. If she never posted she, IMO, would have got off scott free.

BrendaStar
06-19-2010, 10:24 AM
LOL........within the last two days, both one of my friends and my niece posted play by plays of one of their daughters swim meets and the other daughters softball game on their FB....WHILE they were there!!!!!! By the next time I clicked open my account BOTH of them had pictures of the events posted. Are you saying that I should therefore by doing a check on the well fare of these two girls???

No. I didn't mean that at all. I was just interested in the time she posted the picture on Facebook.

RoughlyCollie
06-19-2010, 10:25 AM
Now she's between a rock and a hard place. Should she continue the "innocent bystander" ruse, or should she lawyer up? I bet trying to make that decision is keeping her awake at night. She's now in a darned if you do/darned if you don't situation that I do not think she ever envisioned or planned for.

I agree. She is not under arrest, so if she gets a lawyer and clams up, how is she going to explain that to her husband and to Kyron's other set of parents? She would have to leave their presence and go stay with friends or something. If she took the plunge and did that, I doubt her husband would let her take the baby with her.

Reality Orlando
06-19-2010, 10:25 AM
Apparantly there was no alarm when the teacher marked him absent.I really don't think it had anything to do with the teacher having hard of hearing and heard it wrong.I feel and believe the teacher thought it was for friday the 4th for a reason.Did the paper work have the date the appointment was suppose to be on it?

I'm also very curious of what this Dr appointment was for and what time was it going to be for.

If school was out for the summer the following week, why schedule a doctor's appointment for one of the last days of school? She had all summer to take him.

gliving
06-19-2010, 10:25 AM
How much would a good defense attorney cost? Would one take her case pro bono?

Could it be Kaine doesn't want to shell out the money? Is he broke? Just wondering as it seems most would have lawyered up by now.

swa
06-19-2010, 10:35 AM
How much would a good defense attorney cost? Would one take her case pro bono?

Could it be Kaine doesn't want to shell out the money? Is he broke? Just wondering as it seems most would have lawyered up by now.

Seeing this is a national case, It's very possible that a high-end defense attorney will take it on for free for the publicity it will bring.

She's probably already getting calls.

Deeemdee
06-19-2010, 10:36 AM
You made some very good points of logic here!

Any medical appointment that required some kind of paperwork from the teacher was not just a routine appointment. It was some sort of evaluation that probably was made months in advance at the Dr.'s available time, not by her choice. Plus that Friday (11th) was also one of the school's end of the year activities day, and any end of the year day such as that contains little academic content.

All in all, it's pretty obvious that any paperwork given on a Thursday was not expected to be completed and in to the Dr. by the next school day which involved such a chaotic and active schedule. Once again, simple logic.

My 2nd-grade teacher MIL says it's an evaluation. Because the teacher spends so much of the kid's day with him, the teacher's input is desired in certain instances, such as those dealing with behavioral/emotional issues or medical one's with heavy behavioral components such as Tourette's. Not routine pediatric check-ups.

kikid
06-19-2010, 10:37 AM
Well, I'm just trying to figure what kind of questionnaire a physicians office would require his classroom teacher to fill out??? I could see the school requiring a paper be filled out by a doctor regarding medications and permission to administer - but why would the Dr. need something from his teacher?

Unless this was a behavioral/psychiatric type thing and it wasn't an appointment at the medical Dr.'s office.

glasscastle
06-19-2010, 10:38 AM
I.

And if I had an appointment scheduled that required a teacher to fill out paperwork, then I would probably not give it to her on the day of the appointment, I would give it to her a week in advance. If my child was not actually in the talent show (which I have seen no solid confirmation that Kyron was performing some grand solo act) then I would likely not attend unless I had absolutely no other obligations at all.



Why would the teacher have to fill out paperwork in advance regarding a doctor's appointment?

swa
06-19-2010, 10:38 AM
FB got her caught. If she never posted she, IMO, would have got off scott free.

Many people said that going to the gym, posting and playing games on Facebook, and running from the cameras was just a way she was dealing with stress.

I hope this case will open up a lot of people's eyes to the WRONG things that "possible" criminals do after a "possible" crime is committed.

It floors me that they "possibly" plan out the perfect crime -- then talk about "clean sheets"

To quote a popular phrase -- FAIL!

A_Closer_Look
06-19-2010, 10:39 AM
In my opinion the SM is involved. However, with that said, I do not see this second poly test as indicative of her involvement. As others have already said, a great number of things could have negatively effected her first test results, and we don't even know what those results were yet. It could have very well been a "pass" and this is just more questions. Or it could have easily been inconclusive due to the stress or anything she might be taking to help with the stress.

I will say this. If this were my child missing, they'd have to lock me up and/or tranquilize me to stop me from going on an all out manhunt for the person/people responsible. If I were given a LDT during that time, I have no doubt they'd have to redo it again at a later date.

I believe she is involved, I do not believe this new LDT request tells us much about the situation though. We simply need more info on the first results to come to any conclusions about this new one. IMO :)

kikid
06-19-2010, 10:39 AM
looks like we were thinking along the same lines.

RoughlyCollie
06-19-2010, 10:39 AM
How much would a good defense attorney cost? Would one take her case pro bono?

Could it be Kaine doesn't want to shell out the money? Is he broke? Just wondering as it seems most would have lawyered up by now.

It would cost her a pretty penny, likely at least $200 an hour. If I were her husband, there would be no way I would pay one dime for an attorney for her unless I was 100% positive she did not do it and/or was in denial.

No criminal defense attorney in his or her right mind would bill her monthly. They'd want their money up front, paid as a nonrefundable retainer, most likely. Otherwise, they would run a big risk of not being paid.

There might be a stray attorney out there who would take her case pro bono just for the publicity. But they'd have to be pretty hungry to do it, and she'd have to be pretty desperate to hire a desperate attorney.

This is all IMO. YMMV.

apple2010
06-19-2010, 10:43 AM
I have been following this case lately and wanted to comment, especially after hearing the friend's statement

terri is cooperating

doesn't understand why all the questions

truck being taken in for "repairs"

its seeming more and more like this woman is not stable and could her her mind be blocking any involvement to protect her emotionally. would make sense with some of the comments, the LE presence in the home, truck being taken for "repairs". I think someone stated previously that they may have said that so TH would think repairs and not "search".

just my opinions

LNL
06-19-2010, 10:43 AM
Seeing this is a national case, It's very possible that a high-end defense attorney will take it on for free for the publicity it will bring.

She's probably already getting calls.
I'm surprised Gloria isn't on the horn to her already seeing as SM is apparently a frustrated victim.

:D:

apple2010
06-19-2010, 10:44 AM
and then the 2nd poly would be an attempt to get some sort of "breakthough" possibly

SoCalSleuth
06-19-2010, 10:46 AM
Why are they asking her "all this stuff"? Hmmm, probably because her story doesn't jive with her cell phone pings. After just a day or two, LE suddenly became very tight-lipped and refused to confirm anything, including the date Kyron's picture was taken. My opinion is that was based on her failing a polygraph. Then they got the cell phone pings that showed she was at or near Sauvie Island. Still haven't found him yet. My guess is the second polygraph is to answer questions that will give them a better idea of where Kyron is.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Why would the teacher have to fill out paperwork in advance regarding a doctor's appointment?

The only thing I can come up with is a behavioral evaluation. When I worked in the child behavioral clinic we had the parents and teacher periodically fill out behavioral checklists to monitor the child's progess in behavioral treatment.

We haven't heard anything about Kyron being in treatment of that nature as of yet, but that's one possibility to explain this "paperwork".

RoughlyCollie
06-19-2010, 10:47 AM
Seeing this is a national case, It's very possible that a high-end defense attorney will take it on for free for the publicity it will bring.

She's probably already getting calls.

Yes, she may be. I think attorneys who do that are acting in an unethical manner. It's called solicitation, and it is for personal gain.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Why are they asking her "all this stuff"? Hmmm, probably because her story doesn't jive with her cell phone pings. After just a day or two, LE suddenly became very tight-lipped and refused to confirm anything, including the date Kyron's picture was taken. My opinion is that was based on her failing a polygraph. Then they got the cell phone pings that showed she was at or near Sauvie Island. Still haven't found him yet. My guess is the second polygraph is to answer questions that will give them a better idea of where Kyron is.

I know. Really? You lost a 7 year old child who was under your supervision and you wonder why the police are asking you "all this stuff"? What are they supposed to do, just move right along and worry about clean sheets and going to the gym like you did?

BetteDavisEyes
06-19-2010, 10:52 AM
I'm just getting caught up on new threads/posts since last night. We were under a severe thunderstorm warning and shut down the computer @9:00 EDT.

Comments about the doctor appointment are puzzling me because I thought that TMH had "called out (the information) across the room". Now, I'm reading that she actually handed "paper work" to the teacher. Why the conflicting explanation? :waitasec:

mysticrose
06-19-2010, 10:56 AM
I'm just getting caught up on new threads/posts since last night. We were under a severe thunderstorm warning and shut down the computer @9:00 EDT.

Comments about the doctor appointment are puzzling me because I thought that TMH had "called out (the information) across the room". Now, I'm reading that she actually handed "paper work" to the teacher. Why the conflicting explanation? :waitasec:

It's conflicting because her friend is getting this info directly from her, I believe it is part of her cover my bum mode kick in. It is her story and she is sticking to it ....jmo of course

I would like to know about the paperwork to be filled out, for all we know she just laid it on the teachers desk and never handed it to her personally ...

IRule254
06-19-2010, 10:57 AM
And it is easily verifiable when the actual appointment really was. I always tried to give the teachers advance notice.

IMO

Either the first poly was inconclusive or they neglected to ask a question that didn't seem relevant at that time , but now it is relevant.

Yes, I am pretty sure LE knows if/when the appointment actually was and can easily verify that.... I wish I knew what it was for.

IMO, it has "motive" written all over it...any paperwork needed to be filled out by a teacher has to be some sort of behavioral/psychological testing, there is no way it could be anything medical.

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 10:57 AM
Why are they asking her "all this stuff"? Hmmm, probably because her story doesn't jive with her cell phone pings. After just a day or two, LE suddenly became very tight-lipped and refused to confirm anything, including the date Kyron's picture was taken. My opinion is that was based on her failing a polygraph. Then they got the cell phone pings that showed she was at or near Sauvie Island. Still haven't found him yet. My guess is the second polygraph is to answer questions that will give them a better idea of where Kyron is.
Yes.That was what I was thinking too.

CocoChanel
06-19-2010, 11:02 AM
snipped and bbm

Something about Kaine's actions don't ring true with me either but I might not should post that.

Feeling the same here. IF you discover someone close to you is responsible for a terrible crime and you are the only one who knows, you might go into denial about it to preserve whatever shred of normalcy you have left, trying to protect something of life as you knew it. And in doing so, you might look like this dad: a "deer-in-the-headlights"; shell-shocked, dazed and very very confused.

ALL of that merely my OPINION...

gliving
06-19-2010, 11:03 AM
The only thing I can come up with is a behavioral evaluation. When I worked in the child behavioral clinic we had the parents and teacher periodically fill out behavioral checklists to monitor the child's progess in behavioral treatment.

We haven't heard anything about Kyron being in treatment of that nature as of yet, but that's one possibility to explain this "paperwork".


How long would a behavioral evaluation take? I'm wondering if the teacher didn't expect Kyron back later that morning, with his backpack and jacket being at the school.

CocoChanel
06-19-2010, 11:12 AM
Either the first poly was inconclusive or they neglected to ask a question that didn't seem relevant at that time , but now it is relevant.

Yes, I am pretty sure LE knows if/when the appointment actually was and can easily verify that.... I wish I knew what it was for.

IMO, it has "motive" written all over it...any paperwork needed to be filled out by a teacher has to be some sort of behavioral/psychological testing, there is no way it could be anything medical.

I don't think there has been any confirmation on whether or not Kyron might have been dx with a learning disability, though I've read discussion of it as fact elsewhere. It is something that could definitely be a factor in the SM-did-it scenario. OR, if it hadn't been dx yet, this appointment could have been related to a recommendation from the school that psycho-ed testing be done. I understand that most school districts have diagnosticians to do that at no cost. I also know that families sometimes have the option to pursue testing on their own through someone in private practice. That would be very costly though.

Cher352
06-19-2010, 11:12 AM
My thoughts exactly. UNLESS they want to ask her different questions than asked on the first. BBM

Exactly I am sure LE knows so much more now than they did in the beginning.

mamaeb
06-19-2010, 11:13 AM
can medications, such as steroids effect results?

also, I am thinking maybe the rest of the family is telling her she doesn't need a lawyer, convincing her she is fine to talk without one?

oceanblueeyes
06-19-2010, 11:14 AM
Either the first poly was inconclusive or they neglected to ask a question that didn't seem relevant at that time , but now it is relevant.

Yes, I am pretty sure LE knows if/when the appointment actually was and can easily verify that.... I wish I knew what it was for.

IMO, it has "motive" written all over it...any paperwork needed to be filled out by a teacher has to be some sort of behavioral/psychological testing, there is no way it could be anything medical.

What motive?

I know of teachers who have to fill out paperwork if the child has ADD so what makes that so sinister?

We don't even know if the paperwork may have already had a date and time for the appointment when given to the teacher. We don't even know if the teacher even read it then or just put it to the side.

If the teacher thought it was for that day then why wasnt the paperwork completed and returned to Terri then? What good is an appointment without the teacher's notes on how the child is doing in school?

IMO

amysmom
06-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Finster said Horman had told Kyron's teacher the day before that she was taking the boy to the doctor on Friday, June 11, and gave the teacher paperwork to fill out related to the appointment.

ubm

If she gave her the paperwork the day before (Thurs) she was at the school so was she really there to scout out her plan OR to confuse whoever may have seen her when she dropped it off OR both?..This would explain why LE was asking the public about what they saw on BOTH days.

I'm guessing the form may have something to do with a 'summer camp' & then the only one needed to fill it out would be the DR..Unless Kyron has some kind of 'issues' the camp would need to know about?

mom_of_five
06-19-2010, 11:17 AM
I don't think there has been any confirmation on whether or not Kyron might have been dx with a learning disability, though I've read discussion of it as fact elsewhere. It is something that could definitely be a factor in the SM-did-it scenario. OR, if it hadn't been dx yet, this appointment could have been related to a recommendation from the school that psycho-ed testing be done. I understand that most school districts have diagnosticians to do that at no cost. I also know that families sometimes have the option to pursue testing on their own through someone in private practice. That would be very costly though.

My experience with the public schools in three different states is that any parent can request testing for their child and the district provides it free of charge. I do NOT know about Oregon schools, however (though it was my understanding this was a federal mandate and not a state mandate).

Cher352
06-19-2010, 11:25 AM
Well, I'm just trying to figure what kind of questionnaire a physicians office would require his classroom teacher to fill out??? I could see the school requiring a paper be filled out by a doctor regarding medications and permission to administer - but why would the Dr. need something from his teacher?

Unless this was a behavioral/psychiatric type thing and it wasn't an appointment at the medical Dr.'s office.

Why would the teacher have to fill out paperwork in advance regarding a doctor's appointment?

Discussion of this over on the SM thread too. Various diagnosis require them, my son had to have them for his ADHD. Since so much of the day is spent in school it is a very good tool for the doctor to use to both diagnose and to follow their their progression.

Luxbee
06-19-2010, 11:28 AM
The Oregonian ran it front page today
http://blog.oregonlive.com/nwheadlines/2010/06/todays_headlines_terri_moulton.html
http://media.oregonlive.com/nwheadlines/photo/orto619jpg-9058c13e85a0ed34_large.jpg

amysmom
06-19-2010, 11:29 AM
What motive?

I know of teachers who have to fill out paperwork if the child has ADD so what makes that so sinister?

We don't even know if the paperwork may have already had a date and time for the appointment when given to the teacher. We don't even know if the teacher even read it then or just put it to the side.

If the teacher thought it was for that day then why wasnt the paperwork completed and returned to Terri then? What good is an appointment without the teacher's notes on how the child is doing in school?

IMO

It's hard to believe any teacher could or would complete the paperwork by the next day especially with so much going on at the school so that could be why SM didn't ask for it back IF she gave it to her at all..It seems like SM is trying to make the teacher the 'scapegoat' in all of this but if so she's gone totally OVERBOARD in her attempt making it look even more suspicious.

IRule254
06-19-2010, 11:35 AM
What motive?

I know of teachers who have to fill out paperwork if the child has ADD so what makes that so sinister?

We don't even know if the paperwork may have already had a date and time for the appointment when given to the teacher. We don't even know if the teacher even read it then or just put it to the side.

If the teacher thought it was for that day then why wasnt the paperwork completed and returned to Terri then? What good is an appointment without the teacher's notes on how the child is doing in school?

IMO

It is not sinister to me that the teacher had to fill out the paperwork, I am sure this is a rather common occurrence. You are right, it prob didn't even have a date on it.

I just mean that the fact that Kyron had the need for the appointment at all might have been what caused her to snap. Maybe she didn't think she could handle a child like that and that it might cramp the perfect family she had imagined in her mind.

78gidget78
06-19-2010, 11:35 AM
ubm

If she gave her the paperwork the day before (Thurs) she was at the school so was she really there to scout out her plan OR to confuse whoever may have seen her when she dropped it off OR both?..This would explain why LE was asking the public about what they saw on BOTH days.

I'm guessing the form may have something to do with a 'summer camp' but unless Kyron has some kind of 'issues' the only one needed to fill it out would be the DR.


I think maybe she brought in the paperwork on Thursday and also got it back on Thursday. Then i think she probably did make a comment on friday across a busy room/gym to solidify it/remind the teacher in order to make sure the teacher wouldn't be concerned later.

IRule254
06-19-2010, 11:40 AM
I think maybe she brought in the paperwork on Thursday and also got it back on Thursday. Then i think she probably did make a comment on friday across a busy room/gym to solidify it/remind the teacher in order to make sure the teacher wouldn't be concerned later.


ITA with this..but I think the reason she was so concerned with letting people hear her talking about the appointment was because she wanted to make it seem like she had no knowledge of the fact that there would be no future anything with Kyron. The more she commented on that appointment, the more it would seem like there was nothing out of the ordinary going on. She knew there would be no appointment.

As always, just my humble opinion.

curiousmind
06-19-2010, 11:43 AM
I am a teacher. I have been a teacher for over 10 years. The only paperwork I have had to fill out for doctor's appointments are the following...

Connor's Report for suspected ADD/ADHD
Behavior summaries for psychologists
Environment report for severe asthma patient

Pensfan
06-19-2010, 11:44 AM
IMPO, Kyron was probably exhibiting symptoms of ADD or ADHD. He may also have a "syndrome" but everytime I have posted info about it...it was deleted...so, I'll wait.

Many pediatricians and developmental pediatricians require documentation from someone observer/caretaker/teacher in addition to the parent to show that the child is having behavioral issues. The doc can't come to class to see that Kyron is "staring out of the window or making irritating chirping noises," so they require the teacher to document the "problem".

Because prescribing ADHD/ADD meds is not an exact science (doses must be adjusted according to behavior rather than lab tests), Kyron's teacher had to document his behavior until the doc finds the dose effective to control Kyron's behavior/lack of concentration/hyperactivity/etc...

(Disabled children are far more likely than non-disabled children to be abused.)(I'm an old psych nurse in the process of being "vetted".)

CCup
06-19-2010, 11:47 AM
Feeling the same here. IF you discover someone close to you is responsible for a terrible crime and you are the only one who knows, you might go into denial about it to preserve whatever shred of normalcy you have left, trying to protect something of life as you knew it. And in doing so, you might look like this dad: a "deer-in-the-headlights"; shell-shocked, dazed and very very confused.

ALL of that merely my OPINION...

I have been reading My Life with Susan Smith and I am not shocked if Kaine thinks his wife is innocent. David Smith went 9 days believing his wife's every wod, telling police and media to back off his wife. I think most people would be like there is no way in he!! my spouse did this.

raines67
06-19-2010, 11:52 AM
I have been teaching for a long time. The only time I have filled out paper work for a doctor's appt. is for ADD/ADHD evaluation. This package is about 10 pages long and only requires to circle a number for each question. The numbers represent the frequency in which a behavior occurs or doesn't. It doesn't take long to do and never has an appt. date on it. When it is a regular appt. no paperwork at all and the parent usually calls the office the day of and does not notify me directly. If it is a sick visit the parent calls the day of and when the student returns to school they may bring a doctor's note saying they are well enough to return. HTH

There are, of course other times we are required to fill out paper work for students, but this would be for ESE students who are already receiving special services from the school. This paper work would come from inside the school and not from the parent.

ETA- At my school the teacher only marks the student absent, any follow up is performed by the office staff. There is one person assigned to this task and we send any notes received to the office with the attendance and they keep them on file. Parents do not notify teachers in advance of an absence, and if they do we refer them to the office. The office decides whether or not the absence will be excused.

amysmom
06-19-2010, 11:58 AM
I think maybe she brought in the paperwork on Thursday and also got it back on Thursday. Then i think she probably did make a comment on friday across a busy room/gym to solidify it/remind the teacher in order to make sure the teacher wouldn't be concerned later.

But why do that when SM knows the teacher can only hear out of "one ear"? That would be a dumb move on SM's part (IF it's really true about her hearing which I seriously doubt) if the purpose was to make sure nobody would be looking for Kyron..OTH!..It did give SM an 'out' to claim she didn't hear her (cos of so much noise) so she could later blame the mixup on the teacher..I suppose in her (warped) mind either way was a win-win situation.

grandmaj
06-19-2010, 12:00 PM
OK guys this is not a second SM thread this is a thread about the Lie Detector.

Get back on topic. Discuss this turn of events in the news...

SuziQ
06-19-2010, 12:01 PM
I agree. "I can't understand why they keep asking me stuff"? Really? A 7 year old child under your care is missing and you don't understand why the police would keep asking you stuff? This is projection at its most basic.

Perhaps since she didn't want Kyron around she can't understand how anyone else can possibly want to find him. She probably really is perplexed by that. She was good, just moseying on over to the gym - so why doesn't everyone else just mosey along about their business as well?

Man, you hit the nail on the head as to how psychopaths think. They didn't care for the victim and it's really throws them for a loop that so many other people do. It puts a kink in their plans of going on with their "bella vida" and pisses them off.

Snail
06-19-2010, 12:02 PM
My experience with the public schools in three different states is that any parent can request testing for their child and the district provides it free of charge. I do NOT know about Oregon schools, however (though it was my understanding this was a federal mandate and not a state mandate).

School districts provide educational testing (IQ, academics, etc.) These tests are given by school psychologists and they are not diagnostic. They do not tell a parent what learning disablility a child may have, only that he/she may have a general Learning Disability. This testing is done to help students qualify for Special Education services. It is quite expensive for the district, and does not give specific info. ADHD can only be diagnosed by a Dr. However, it is very common for a teacher to fill out a checklist of the severity of certain symptoms. Just my two cents.

grandmaj
06-19-2010, 12:05 PM
OK guys this is not a second SM thread this is a thread about the Lie Detector.

Get back on topic. Discuss this turn of events in the news...

This is the last warning. Lie Detector news........ Continued warnings will result in Time outs.

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 12:12 PM
"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Does this sound like a 40 year old teacher speaking?

Does this sound like a grieving parent working alongside LE in order to do everything to find her step-son?

Terri's friend says that Terri said to her "I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff?" She goes on to say that Terri told her: "They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." If Finster is recreating Terri's word choices, I am appalled that a woman her age, with whatever true education she has, would speak like a guilty, whining, self-centered, and very possibly, deceptive child or teenager. (This is my take on it).

I think that Finster's narrative of Terri's remarks and her emotional state, along with the way she is thinking, does nothing to help Terri appear in a good light. Terri's words and reactions, if they have been shared correctly by her friend, make me horribly uncomfortable.

This is my opinion.

cluciano63
06-19-2010, 12:29 PM
People lie to LE all the time, to cover up bad behavior or an affair or any number of things. It is possible that if TMH falied a polygraph, it was due to lying about where she went after leaving the school. For all we know, she may go to the nude beach the first Friday of every month. And if so, she doesn't know how to go back now and straighten out the little lies without coming off worse than she already is. Just saying, if she did indeed fail a LD to questions as to her whereabouts, there could be a less incriminating explanation, but she might not know how to prove it now.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 12:44 PM
"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Does this sound like a 40 year old teacher speaking?

Does this sound like a grieving parent working alongside LE in order to do everything to find her step-son?

Terri's friend says that Terri said to her "I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff?" She goes on to say that Terri told her: "They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." If Finster is recreating Terri's word choices, I am appalled that a woman her age, with whatever true education she has, would speak like a guilty, whining, self-centered, and very possibly, deceptive child or teenager. (This is my take on it).

I think that Finster's narrative of Terri's remarks and her emotional state, along with the way she is thinking, does nothing to help Terri appear in a good light. Terri's words and reactions, if they have been shared correctly by her friend, make me horribly uncomfortable.

This is my opinion.

Quoted because I think this is very important insight into TM's current (and likely usual) mental state. First, that statement is all ME, ME, ME. "I" don't understand..."I" didn't do anything.....it doesn't make sense to "me". She is focused on herself, her frustration, her exhaustion - the topic of Kyron has left her mind and she can't make sense of why they'd want to poly her again.

Second, it is DEFENSIVE. She is defending herself to her friend - why are they continuing to bother me? I didn't do anything! She doesn't focus on the very real gratitude she should have that so many people are trying to find Kyron for her, they are not giving up, they are going over things over and over again for any small piece of information or bit of fact that can help BRING KYRON HOME. Many, many people with missing loved ones would be thanking the heavens to have even a fraction of that attention and interest in finding their loved one.

I imagine they have asked KM, DY, TY, the teachers, the parents, the kids the same questions over and over again as well. TM however, is taking it personally and is now in defense (and whining) mode.

Then again, maybe she is always like that. Some people are.

Jules71
06-19-2010, 12:47 PM
If school was out for the summer the following week, why schedule a doctor's appointment for one of the last days of school? She had all summer to take him.

I don't think I have seen an answer to this yet - but one reason not to wait is if he was taking medication(s) and was about to run out. A lot of times the dr won't issue a refill until they are seen and evaluations have been completed by parent/caretakers/teachers. (This is particularly true for ADHD stimulant meds.)

Ladybulldog
06-19-2010, 12:51 PM
I don't think there has been any confirmation on whether or not Kyron might have been dx with a learning disability, though I've read discussion of it as fact elsewhere. It is something that could definitely be a factor in the SM-did-it scenario. OR, if it hadn't been dx yet, this appointment could have been related to a recommendation from the school that psycho-ed testing be done. I understand that most school districts have diagnosticians to do that at no cost. I also know that families sometimes have the option to pursue testing on their own through someone in private practice. That would be very costly though.

When my daughter was having problems focusing and disrupting the classroom in 3rd grade. Her teacher explained to me on how to get her tested for ADHD. The Principal had the paper work on file. First get evaluations from the teachers that taught her and the principal. Second take her to get Psychological testing done. Third take all the paperwork from the principal,the teachers and the psychiatrist to her pediatrician to prescribe meds for her ADHD. Plus we had quarterly evaluations from them all. The cost was minimal since she was covered under insurance. Hope this helps.:)

Jules71
06-19-2010, 12:53 PM
Polygraphs can have a 3rd category: "inconclusive"

I bet that's what happened in TMH's first poly.

I agree. Remember Gate's no comment about if she had taken a poly. If she had and passed and they did not suspect her, I would think he would answer that differently. JMO.

miabellamoure
06-19-2010, 12:54 PM
So true. The way that these comments by the friend are presented it is as if she has been "put upon" and "inconvenienced" by the interviews. How is this a natural reaction when a loved one is missing and you were the last to see them and most acquainted with their daily routine? Still, I'm surprised this "frustration" is being voiced aloud considering she's married to the missing person's father. I can't imagine being in his shoes - your child is missing and there is all of this speculation about your spouse's involvement whirling about everywhere.

My thoughts exactly...what a nightmare to begin with but, then to have doubts about the one your love & entrusted the care of your own child with only now to be shattered with the sick thought of...what if she did something terrible to Kyron?

How do spouses go through each day, eat, sleep & live together when there's this doubt hanging in the air?

I pray that SM is the only POI and not KH, too...but, then I feel such empathy for him to have to endure another minute with a person who may have shattered his whole world.:(

Wise Old Owl
06-19-2010, 12:55 PM
I agree. Remember Gate's no comment about if she had taken a poly. If she had and passed and they did not suspect her, I would think he would answer that differently. JMO.
AND he laughed! That's what caught me.

CharlestonGal
06-19-2010, 12:56 PM
OK, back to the polygraph. We've already been warned to stay on topic.

My thought is that the first poly more than likely took place in the first few days of the investigation. It is now two weeks later and LE has a much better idea of which questions to ask and they want them answered under poly.

kgeaux
06-19-2010, 12:57 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html
"Friend says Terri Moulton Horman is scheduled to take another polygraph in disappearance of Kyron Horman"

this was originally posted here
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - SM as a potential focus of the investigation #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5309513&postcount=322)

but I thought I would make it a thread so no one misses it

a little clipping from the article......

"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," Gates said. "We are releasing this information at this time in hope that it helps jog people's memory of that day."

This is written as a direct quote from Gates. After all the noise I've waded through about the significance of his statement saying Terri was the last person to have seen Kyron "alive" I am dumbfounded to see that is NOT what he said!!!

Is there another link that contains the "alive" addition? Whether that word was actually included or not has extreme significance in my mind!

No More
06-19-2010, 12:58 PM
Like another poster said earlier, I really doubt that today is the second poly test. I'll bet it is the first. I'm sure her friend believes it's the second poly, but I'll bet she was not told the truth.

IMO there are two strong emerging patterns, first a lack of concern for Kyron and second that she appears to be both a compulsive liar and a sociopathic liar. Here's a description of those behaviors and the difference http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html

Jules71
06-19-2010, 01:03 PM
OMG from her friend, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything" is reminding me of Misty and ironically "3:30" for the bus. What is it with 3's? :doh:

I don't understand the reference to 3's - can someone shed some light for me? TIA!

Jules71
06-19-2010, 01:04 PM
Like another poster said earlier, I really doubt that today is the second poly test. I'll bet it is the first. I'm sure her friend believes it's the second poly, but I'll bet she was not told the truth.

IMO there are two strong emerging patterns, first a lack of concern for Kyron and second that she appears to be both a compulsive liar and a sociopathic liar. Here's a description of those behaviors and the difference http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/lying-and-deception/confronting-a-partner/compulsive-lying/types-of-liars.html

I was thinking/wondering that also - if this would be her first.

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 01:11 PM
Like other liars, Terri just goes with the flow when caught in a lie. If she committed the crime against Kyron, if it was premeditated (and it looks more and more like it was) her plan all along appears to have been to blame the school, blame the new teacher for misundertanding, blame any and everyone ELSE for her crime.

She was setting this up on Thursday, June 3rd. Let the teacher believe Kyron would be leaving the school with her for an appointment on Friday the 4th of June. The teacher would not be wondering where Kyron was on this day, the day of the Science Fair, the next day. Then, after Kyron is reported missing by Terri, Terri turns on the teacher. Now, it was the "new," hard of hearing teacher who misunderstood. Wonder if the teacher is hard-of reading also, or the date on the paperwork was just not clear? My guess, Terri would have no problem saying that black is white, that June 4 is really June 11. Whatever Terri said to the teacher on Thursday and Friday, she would just say that the teacher was wrong. This is what liars and manipulators do.

In my OPINION, Terri shows many of the characteristics of a psychopath from what we are learning about her. It really makes me wonder if the 1% of the population figure is correct. There is so much information regarding this subject, and psychopaths are labelled with different names. Here is just one, of many descriptions, by a leader in the research into psychopaths. If you read further, Dr. Hare gives in-depth descriptions so of the character traits he lists. He is the author of "Without Conscience," and unfortunately it is looking like our Terri here falls under that description.

With the exception of Dr. Robert Hare's words below, this post is all my OPINION and belief and supposition.

LINK: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath?page=2

"How to spot social predators before they attack.
By Robert Hare, published on January 01, 1994 - last reviewed on June 01, 2010
Key Symptoms of Psychopathy

Emotional/Interpersonal:

Glib and superficial
Egocentric and grandiose
Lack of remorse or guilt
Lack of empathy
Deceitful and manipulative
Shallow emotions

Social Deviance:

Impulsive
Poor behavior controls
Need for excitement
Lack of responsibility
Early behavior problems
Adult antisocial behavior"

audreyfan
06-19-2010, 01:12 PM
"Finster said Horman was very down. "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Does this sound like a 40 year old teacher speaking?

Does this sound like a grieving parent working alongside LE in order to do everything to find her step-son?

Terri's friend says that Terri said to her "I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff?" She goes on to say that Terri told her: "They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." If Finster is recreating Terri's word choices, I am appalled that a woman her age, with whatever true education she has, would speak like a guilty, whining, self-centered, and very possibly, deceptive child or teenager. (This is my take on it).

I think that Finster's narrative of Terri's remarks and her emotional state, along with the way she is thinking, does nothing to help Terri appear in a good light. Terri's words and reactions, if they have been shared correctly by her friend, make me horribly uncomfortable.

This is my opinion.

Okay, devil's advocate. Suppose this interview was cut and diced.
These statements don't look too nice. But say the conversation between Terri and her friend was mostly Terri missing Kyron, blaming herself, and her friend trying to get her to talk about how SHE is. There could have been a much longer conversation in which this venting played a minor role compared to grief and sorrow, and that this is what the journalist left in. Not to mention the friend may not have conveyed the context correctly.
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if I knew LE was looking at me and I knew I didn't do it but it looked like they thought I had. Innocent people have gone to prison before.

Dee10
06-19-2010, 01:12 PM
a little clipping from the article......

"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," Gates said. "We are releasing this information at this time in hope that it helps jog people's memory of that day."

This is written as a direct quote from Gates. After all the noise I've waded through about the significance of his statement saying Terri was the last person to have seen Kyron "alive" I am dumbfounded to see that is NOT what he said!!!

Is there another link that contains the "alive" addition? Whether that word was actually included or not has extreme significance in my mind!

There was what at least one newspaper that printed "alive", but that was not the words Gates said directly from his mouth at the presser he did not say alive.

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 01:21 PM
a little clipping from the article......

"Terri is the last known person to have seen Kyron before he disappeared," Gates said. "We are releasing this information at this time in hope that it helps jog people's memory of that day."

This is written as a direct quote from Gates. After all the noise I've waded through about the significance of his statement saying Terri was the last person to have seen Kyron "alive" I am dumbfounded to see that is NOT what he said!!!

Is there another link that contains the "alive" addition? Whether that word was actually included or not has extreme significance in my mind!It was said by him near the end of the press conference.

I am saying this from memory, from listening to him speak. Is this statement not being found in the transcripts?

pdx
06-19-2010, 01:27 PM
Okay, devil's advocate. Suppose this interview was cut and diced.
These statements don't look too nice. But say the conversation between Terri and her friend was mostly Terri missing Kyron, blaming herself, and her friend trying to get her to talk about how SHE is. There could have been a much longer conversation in which this venting played a minor role compared to grief and sorrow, and that this is what the journalist left in. Not to mention the friend may not have conveyed the context correctly.
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if I knew LE was looking at me and I knew I didn't do it but it looked like they thought I had. Innocent people have gone to prison before.

I like to play Devil's Advocate too.
What I like about what you wrote is about what the journalist left in.

This has already been demonstrated here; the personal editorial essay run early in the case in the Oregonian, 'View from Across the Street' or similar, related the story of how one neighbor had invested an hour in an interview with the paper, only to have her comments reduced to one sound bite (which discouraged others from giving interviews).

I strongly agree that written stories need to be analyzed with a jaundiced eye.. print media makes errors and changes *all* the time.. we have seen it multiple times here already.

This story is very spicy.. gets eyeballs on.. and we have to remember that is was created to do just that.

sofia76
06-19-2010, 01:29 PM
If my child vanished, the LAST person I'd suspect is my husband. I don't think that is unreasonable. I wouldn't be married to someone I thought was capable of that!

I have been reading My Life with Susan Smith and I am not shocked if Kaine thinks his wife is innocent. David Smith went 9 days believing his wife's every wod, telling police and media to back off his wife. I think most people would be like there is no way in he!! my spouse did this.

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 01:31 PM
Okay, devil's advocate. Suppose this interview was cut and diced.
These statements don't look too nice. But say the conversation between Terri and her friend was mostly Terri missing Kyron, blaming herself, and her friend trying to get her to talk about how SHE is. There could have been a much longer conversation in which this venting played a minor role compared to grief and sorrow, and that this is what the journalist left in. Not to mention the friend may not have conveyed the context correctly.
I can't imagine how terrified I would be if I knew LE was looking at me and I knew I didn't do it but it looked like they thought I had. Innocent people have gone to prison before.Sure, audreyfan, I understand that this could be just part of the conversation. It is third hand. Terri to friend, friend to reporter.

But, if these words of Terri's are even close to what she said to her friend, then nothing else she said can undo them, in my opinion.

I admit, that if this were all we were learning about Terri, then I'd give her some slack. But, there is nothing positive coming out about this woman as far as I'm concerned.

If more of her friends start talking I see her being even more of a person of interest.

All my OPINION

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 01:36 PM
This is the last warning. Lie Detector news........ Continued warnings will result in Time outs.I just am reading this, grandmaj.

Sorry about that. For some reason I was thinking we were discussing the entire article and I didn't read title of the thread.

Please don't put me on a time out!

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 01:58 PM
Well it sure explains why Gates chuckled when asked had polys been given. Of course they had. That is investigation 101.

So it tells me she did not fail the first one but now in this phase of the investigation LE is going to want to go back and give polygraphs all over again.

I sure hope that includes everyone they previously gave one too and not just Terri Horman.

However I have had to take a LDT before and I was so nervous I thought the machine would register my blood pressure which was up because I had never taken one before and worried they would find me lying about something when I wasnt but the government said I passed.

So I hope that the stress does not give a false reading like it did when Archie Lunsford, Ruth Lunsford and Steve Greone took theirs.

IMOBolding and underling of your post above by me.

OBE, I am curious why you think the fact that she is being given a second polygraph (if this is a true) why this would mean she had NOT failed the first one.

Thanks, if you care to elaborate.

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 02:07 PM
I asked my detective neighbor...we walked our dogs together this am.....he said that most polygraph exams are a very limited number of questions. After an intense two week investigation, new questions come up. Also, in cases like this one, VERY often family members have received sleep or anxiety medications early on and this causes inconclusive results. In his opinion, this is not unusual to do another one at a later time.

jmooThanks for sharing your conversation, Raeann. I find Terri's response to the second test much more revealing than the fact of the test itself.

my opinion

annalyzer
06-19-2010, 02:18 PM
People lie to LE all the time, to cover up bad behavior or an affair or any number of things. It is possible that if TMH falied a polygraph, it was due to lying about where she went after leaving the school. For all we know, she may go to the nude beach the first Friday of every month. And if so, she doesn't know how to go back now and straighten out the little lies without coming off worse than she already is. Just saying, if she did indeed fail a LD to questions as to her whereabouts, there could be a less incriminating explanation, but she might not know how to prove it now.

I seriously doubt that. :cow:

quadlatte
06-19-2010, 02:20 PM
I wonder if Terri's 11's look like 4's.

Apologies for commenting before I have finished reading the entire thread, but that is EXACTLY what sprung to my mind when I read about the appointment paperwork.

(Incidentally, my daughters (who are the same age as Kyron) do not require paperwork for an appointment, which to me attests to the "security" of the school, IMO.)

I also know that when writing fast, my 4's could easily be mistaken for 11's - and this observation, if my hunch is correct, also confirms my dreaded suspicion that there was a great deal of premeditation involved...:furious:

quadlatte
06-19-2010, 02:28 PM
BBM. IIRC, it was around 1 - 1:30 p.m. on Friday, 4 hours after Kyron "disappeared" from the school.

And, if I recall correctly, this would have been DURING the Talent Show that some have speculated that Kyron would be attending/participating...

Why would she be online at home and not there to support Kyron???

From what we have learned about TM's volunteer work, she would likely have planned to attend whether or not Kyron was in the show...? (I go every year whether or not my daughters participate)

Unless she knew he would not be there, and she was not ready to raise the alarm yet...

Pensfan
06-19-2010, 02:37 PM
I don't understand the reference to 3's - can someone shed some light for me? TIA!

They are referring to the Haleigh Cumming's case and Misty Croslin. Misty Croslin has failed many polygraphs.

slapithigh
06-19-2010, 02:40 PM
And, if I recall correctly, this would have been DURING the Talent Show that some have speculated that Kyron would be attending/participating...

Why would she be online at home and not there to support Kyron???

From what we have learned about TM's volunteer work, she would likely have planned to attend whether or not Kyron was in the show...? (I go every year whether or not my daughters participate)

Unless she knew he would not be there, and she was not ready to raise the alarm yet...

I'm with you on this but to play devil's advocate...what if that was her daughter's naptime? Trying to take an 18 month old to a talent show during naptime would be a disaster IMO.

Dee10
06-19-2010, 03:21 PM
I am assuming she will be taking that poly down at headquarters and I would except they would take the opportunity to question her again out of her comfort zone.

Seems kind of funny if you pass the lst test wouldn't they trust you, if they had new questions? Sounds like they have questioned her many times. They don't hook you up each time KWIM? Something is off, I think anyway.

Wise Old Owl
06-19-2010, 03:36 PM
I am assuming she will be taking that poly down at headquarters and I would except they would take the opportunity to question her again out of her comfort zone.

Seems kind of funny if you pass the lst test wouldn't they trust you, if they had new questions? Sounds like they have questioned her many times. They don't hook you up each time KWIM? Something is off, I think anyway.
yep and the fact we heard that the DA had been at the house as well. IMO

Just sayin'.........................................

seeking truth
06-19-2010, 05:25 PM
It would cost her a pretty penny, likely at least $200 an hour. If I were her husband, there would be no way I would pay one dime for an attorney for her unless I was 100% positive she did not do it and/or was in denial.

No criminal defense attorney in his or her right mind would bill her monthly. They'd want their money up front, paid as a nonrefundable retainer, most likely. Otherwise, they would run a big risk of not being paid.

There might be a stray attorney out there who would take her case pro bono just for the publicity. But they'd have to be pretty hungry to do it, and she'd have to be pretty desperate to hire a desperate attorney.

This is all IMO. YMMV.BBM

This is purely speculation:

Based on what I see as the core of Terri's personality, I think that she has told Kaine what she did to Kyron (sort of; blaming Kyron somehow) and has now made Kaine guilty by not speaking out. Essentially being guilty of covering up a crime after the fact.

Who knows? If she has the capacity to plan and execute a crime against another woman's child, one she herself has helped to raise, what would stop her from threatening Kaine, telling him she will implicate him? This second polygraph could also be very stressful for Kaine.

Maybe she wants to be a happy family with Kaine and the baby girl. Maybe she just wants to be a mom with a daughter.

As stated above, this is speculation and it is also pure opinion.

amysmom
06-19-2010, 05:34 PM
Quoted because I think this is very important insight into TM's current (and likely usual) mental state. First, that statement is all ME, ME, ME. "I" don't understand..."I" didn't do anything.....it doesn't make sense to "me". She is focused on herself, her frustration, her exhaustion - the topic of Kyron has left her mind and she can't make sense of why they'd want to poly her again.

Second, it is DEFENSIVE. She is defending herself to her friend - why are they continuing to bother me? I didn't do anything! She doesn't focus on the very real gratitude she should have that so many people are trying to find Kyron for her, they are not giving up, they are going over things over and over again for any small piece of information or bit of fact that can help BRING KYRON HOME. Many, many people with missing loved ones would be thanking the heavens to have even a fraction of that attention and interest in finding their loved one.

I imagine they have asked KM, DY, TY, the teachers, the parents, the kids the same questions over and over again as well. TM however, is taking it personally and is now in defense (and whining) mode.

Then again, maybe she is always like that. Some people are.

What's missing to me is "Terri is scared"..Even IF it's all ME, ME, ME wouldn't that be a NORMAL reaction if LE seemed to be targeting someone who's innocent? Or guilty for that matter but there is nothing close to these feelings reported by her friend. :waitasec:

mom_of_five
06-19-2010, 05:40 PM
School districts provide educational testing (IQ, academics, etc.) These tests are given by school psychologists and they are not diagnostic. They do not tell a parent what learning disablility a child may have, only that he/she may have a general Learning Disability. This testing is done to help students qualify for Special Education services. It is quite expensive for the district, and does not give specific info. ADHD can only be diagnosed by a Dr. However, it is very common for a teacher to fill out a checklist of the severity of certain symptoms. Just my two cents.

Thank you for this post. However, that isn't what happened in the case of one of my sons. The school district tested him thoroughly and gave us very specific learning disabilities with which he was struggling (dysgraphia, for instance). Regardless, I think this might be considered off-topic, so...moving on... :)

ETA: link to definition of dysgraphia: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=11183

scandi
06-19-2010, 05:44 PM
And, if I recall correctly, this would have been DURING the Talent Show that some have speculated that Kyron would be attending/participating...

Why would she be online at home and not there to support Kyron???

From what we have learned about TM's volunteer work, she would likely have planned to attend whether or not Kyron was in the show...? (I go every year whether or not my daughters participate)

Unless she knew he would not be there, and she was not ready to raise the alarm yet...Has anyone read if Terri said she would be attending the Talent show? It is one big red flagged area for me in this case.

Last week my bosses 8 yr old had a talent show at his school. The mother who works at Intel took off from work to be there for the show. I think most mothers would plan to attend especially if they are not working.

I also wanted to say I have the impression Kyron was well taken care of by his family. He was exposed to interesting cultures through art, exposed to many sciences giving him a way to explore discover what his interests were. And the environment of the home with bright colors, interesting and organized even down to how his food was placed on the table is a big plus for his caretakers IMO.

Now there might have been underlying issues - there usually is in any family's dynamics. But for the all in all I think he was being given every opportunity to grow up being the best he could be. All of that would have to be a joint effort on the part of the family IMO. xox

miabellamoure
06-19-2010, 05:44 PM
People lie to LE all the time, to cover up bad behavior or an affair or any number of things. It is possible that if TMH falied a polygraph, it was due to lying about where she went after leaving the school. For all we know, she may go to the nude beach the first Friday of every month. And if so, she doesn't know how to go back now and straighten out the little lies without coming off worse than she already is. Just saying, if she did indeed fail a LD to questions as to her whereabouts, there could be a less incriminating explanation, but she might not know how to prove it now.

We all have moments of poor judgment but, I believe those of us who would be innocent of harming a child would be shouting it from the rooftops...hey, listen...I said I was running errands but, I hate to admit it but, I was actually stealing a moment away from the kiddo's at the nudie beach!

SM apparently hasn't done this...she's stuck to her "errands story" and unfortunately for SM, her cell pings didn't get the message to keep up the lie to LE!:liar:

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 05:48 PM
Another article about this:

http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html

First reported in the Oregonian, Jaymie Finster said that Horman was "tired and frustrated with the intensity of the questioning she's been getting."

Finster confirmed the paper's account that she and Horman have been friends since they went to junior high school together in Roseburg and they worked in the Hillsboro school district. She declined to be interviewed further.

IRule254
06-19-2010, 05:48 PM
We all have moments of poor judgment but, I believe those of us who would be innocent of harming a child would be shouting it from the rooftops...hey, listen...I said I was running errands but, I hate to admit it but, I was actually stealing a moment away from the kiddo's at the nudie beach!

SM apparently hasn't done this...she's stuck to her "errands story" and unfortunately for SM, her cell pings didn't get the message to keep up the lie to LE!:liar:

One would think, right! Unless maybe the person in question was cheating on a spouse (NOT that I think she was, just an example)

but, sheesh, even then i would mail it in at this point-anything is better than being suspected or charged with the murder of a child, right?

pattywack
06-19-2010, 05:55 PM
I'm with you on this but to play devil's advocate...what if that was her daughter's naptime? Trying to take an 18 month old to a talent show during naptime would be a disaster IMO.

Me thinks if she can get a sitter to take Kyron to school and a sitter to got to the gym then surely she can get a sitter to go to the talent show....JMO

scandi
06-19-2010, 06:02 PM
yep and the fact we heard that the DA had been at the house as well. IMO

Just sayin'......................................... . . . .and 'hangin' out acc to KOIN News. So not just one visit IMO

scandi
06-19-2010, 06:03 PM
My brother was NOT pleased when I informed him of this. He returned from Oregon recently and wished he had known before he came back. lol :innocent:

That's all foreign to him.... Utahn and all...I wonder how active it is comparing it to Rooster Rock up on the Columbia River?

miabellamoure
06-19-2010, 06:09 PM
To anyone:

I have seen the nude beach mentioned three times today.. can anyone direct me to the origin of this as a potential reason TH would have 'snuck off' or similar?

I want to quash it as a rumor! :D

Not sure...maybe in the theory thread?

I hardly find it plausible tho'...after checking out the website linked with Sauvie Island Clothing Optional Beach...I doubt the sagging skin there would've been her choice of fun...it was scary!:eek:

cluciano63
06-19-2010, 06:12 PM
It wasn't even a rumor. It was a poster's conjecture that started it. Specifically regarding her potential responses to polygraph questions concerning why she was or may have been on SI. The poster was just saying "what if" TH went to the nude beach and was afraid to tell LE. Perhaps that would impact the interpretation of the poly.

Best as I can remember the post. It was sometime today.

JMO

Good grief, it was me, and I was trying to think of a possible thing that someone wanted to hide so they lied about it, I only used nude beach as an example as they have one on SI...I know that it would be a foolish thing to lie about when being asked about your missing child...was just trying to think if she had not passed a polygraph, and was innocent, what she might not have told the truth about, for example....sorry :(

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 06:13 PM
I wonder how active it is comparing it to Rooster Rock up on the Columbia River?

I don't know, but compared to what he's seen in Utah... it would be active. lol

Clarify: There IS a nude beach but obviously we have no reason to believe Terri went to it.

pdx
06-19-2010, 06:27 PM
I wonder how active it is comparing it to Rooster Rock up on the Columbia River?

lolz.. It's more 'family friendly' than Rooster Rock (where the focus is playing for the team other than mine).

Good grief, it was me, and I was trying to think of a possible thing that someone wanted to hide so they lied about it, I only used nude beach as an example as they have one on SI...I know that it would be a foolish thing to lie about when being asked about your missing child...was just trying to think if she had not passed a polygraph, and was innocent, what she might not have told the truth about, for example....sorry :(

Thanks, and no problem really.. just didn't want it to start running away as some sort of fact when I saw it repeated a few times.
We need that darn 'sarcasm' smiley. :D

animefemme
06-19-2010, 06:28 PM
I don't know, but compared to what he's seen in Utah... it would be active. lol

Clarify: There IS a nude beach but obviously we have no reason to believe Terri went to it.

I agree. From what friends and family have told me about Collins Beach and
Sauvie Island, there's not much to do there. A co-worker goes there to pick blueberries when they're in season. Strawberries are in season right now, but I have no info to back up that there are patches there or not. If you look at local businesses there's a Cracker Barrel store, a dog kennel, corn mazes...

http://sauvieisland.org/

EDIT: Strawberry-picking: http://sauvieisland.org/2009/09/29/sauvie-island-farms/

scandi
06-19-2010, 06:35 PM
lolz.. It's more 'family friendly' than Rooster Rock (where the focus is playing for the team other than mine).



Thanks, and no problem really.. just didn't want it to start running away as some sort of fact when I saw it repeated a few times.
We need that darn 'sarcasm' smiley. :D


. . . . and a bit of humor along the way in studying such a tragic case as Kyron's always helps IMO

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 06:36 PM
We need that darn 'sarcasm' smiley. :D

I come with a sarcasm smiley assumed. :innocent:

My name should hopefully get that across. That's why I use it...seems to minimize how often I offend people. :waitasec:

I would totally have it as my plate too if I could. :innocent:

believe09
06-19-2010, 06:55 PM
Every time I log on there is something new...jeeze. 2 lie detector tests that will tell them nothing - not admissible in court and can be affected by medication, anxiety, response to stress etc.

Wish LE would just bring Terri in and interrogate her like they would do to anyone else. Sending out questionnaires, maps, being silent, closed mouthed, isn't working - bring her in.

Whining about her frustration with the investigation with her child gone is simply outrageous...sounds like she is saying...poor me moo mho

BBM-there is no point to this if she chooses not to make a statement, and lawyers up.

I have been away for the day and will catch up on this thread, but IF LE is actually pointing to her in the media because they believe she has information she is not sharing, then they are intentionally ratcheting up the pressure. JMO.

amethyst221
06-19-2010, 07:28 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if a person was worried about success on a polygraph, there aren't a lot of options in such a complicated situation. Taking the 5th and lawyering up could potentially cause a major family rupture, even if the choice would be well within ones rights. So avoidance would be the fallback, as in I'm so offended and distraught that I can't go on -- why do they keep badgering me?

scandi
06-19-2010, 07:45 PM
I keep waiting for the 'SM focus' thread to open back up from its time-out. Most views, most posts, of all active threads on this board about Kyron.

..

I think the mods here are better are keeping at keeping tabs :gavel: on the things folks say here than the Skyline Elementary school was at keeping tabs on the wee ones in its care! :gomods: Honestly, the school did have whacky procedures and security (or the lack thereof) but I digress.

..


I just read over on the working theories tab though, on a local 'theory' being discussed around town this afternoon that Terri walked out on her 2nd polygraph today.

The post pointed out that all the other local chatter/thoughts lately, have been validated within days, every time!

If she did walk out on her polygraph today, I hope it gets brought up tonight when America's Most Wanted profiles Kyron's case!!

Hi CaringCitizen, We have the 5pm evening News in 18 min on channel 12 here in Portland. Maybe we'll learn something about a LD test. Not !!!, but will hope for something that is newsworthy on the case.



ETA: Sorry guys, It says the news should be on but it is some paid programming for a dog product.

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 08:22 PM
ETA: Sorry guys, It says the news should be on but it is some paid programming for a dog product.

Yeah, I tried to watch the 5pm news on Fox 12 and it wasn't on either... KATU had 5pm news on but I saw nothing about Kyron in the choppy little bit that I saw.

Other news that is listed tonight (Saturday):

6pm - KATU

10pm - KPTV Fox 12

11pm - KATU


The links to both live feeds for those of us not in Oregon.... KATU is not working well for me at all right now, but it's probably just me.

http://www.katu.com/news/live

http://www.kptv.com/video/15359817/index.html

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 08:52 PM
Another article about the polygraph:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96732144.html



If she did walk out on her polygraph today, I hope it gets brought up tonight when America's Most Wanted profiles Kyron's case!!

I highly doubt that information would be available before Monday or at all... and if it WAS I don't know if it would be in time to make it on AMW.

http://www.kptv.com/news/23932306/detail.html

"My gut feeling is they have a person of interest and they're trying to make sure they don't make mistakes that would compromise the case," Walsh said. "Of course, we all have to hold out hope this person is keeping Kyron alive and that the best end result is this boy will be gotten back alive."

"I'm surprised that either the police have kept the family from the media or the parents have chosen. It's their personal choice," Walsh said. "But if I were those parents, I'd be on every media outlet I could saying 'I need to get little Kyron back.'"

"We're hoping someone saw something and will have the courage to come forward," Walsh said.

"America's Most Wanted" will feature a segment on Kyron on Saturday at 9 p.m. on FOX 12 Oregon.

Ms Suzanne
06-19-2010, 08:54 PM
Yeah, I tried to watch the 5pm news on Fox 12 and it wasn't on either... KATU had 5pm news on but I saw nothing about Kyron in the choppy little bit that I saw.

Other news that is listed tonight (Saturday):

6pm - KATU

10pm - KPTV Fox 12

11pm - KATU


The links to both live feeds for those of us not in Oregon.... KATU is not working well for me at all right now, but it's probably just me.

http://www.katu.com/news/live

http://www.kptv.com/video/15359817/index.html
Thank you.I was looking at it.I'm curious where is Quartz(I'm not sure of spelling) creek?It looks scary.

CaringCitizen
06-19-2010, 09:00 PM
Yeah, I tried to watch the 5pm news on Fox 12 and it wasn't on either... KATU had 5pm news on but I saw nothing about Kyron in the choppy little bit that I saw.

Other news that is listed tonight (Saturday):

6pm - KATU

10pm - KPTV Fox 12

11pm - KATU


The links to both live feeds for those of us not in Oregon.... KATU is not working well for me at all right now, but it's probably just me.

http://www.katu.com/news/live

http://www.kptv.com/video/15359817/index.html

Watching local 6pm news now!! Thanks!

STEADFAST
06-19-2010, 09:01 PM
Another article about the polygraph:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/96732144.html



That article says its source is the Oregonian, who says its source is Ms. Finster, who says her source is Terri. At this point, it's fourth-hand information and was third-hand information even when we first heard about it.

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 09:10 PM
That article says its source is the Oregonian, who says its source is Ms. Finster, who says her source is Terri. At this point, it's fourth-hand information and was third-hand information even when we first heard about it.

I look at it this way as far as reliability...

Why would Terri say she was taking a 2nd polygraph if she wasn't? Plus complain about it? That does NOT make her look good. Maybe say that she didn't have to take one because she passed the first one... but lying about taking a second one doesn't make sense.

Jaiyme is childhood friend of Terri's, we know this. We also know that she was around the house, in the house immediately after Kyron disappeared. What motive would SHE have to make her good friend look badly?

Then finally, IF this was not true and it makes Terri look this bad... I find it hard to believe there wouldn't have been a statement issued correcting the statement. By the family, even if LE wouldn't discuss it. Because people thinking Terri may have failed a polygraph, will definite hurt the search for Kyron.

Then again, that's just the way my mind works. :waitasec:

sherbetjello
06-19-2010, 09:16 PM
I look at it this way as far as reliability...

Why would Terri say she was taking a 2nd polygraph if she wasn't? Plus complain about it? That does NOT make her look good. Maybe say that she didn't have to take one because she passed the first one... but lying about taking a second one doesn't make sense.


Everything pertaining to this situation seems like it's a "lure", not pressure anymore.
To me, and I am no expert, I think that it seems they are trying to "create" a false sense of a POI so the person(s) that is/are responsible for Kyron feel more laxed.

Thing is though, whomever was responsible for Kyron last (or took Kyron), what would they do once the "pressure" (from the inside, "conscious") was taken away from them and placed on another?

MsFacetious
06-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Everything pertaining to this situation seems like it's a "lure", not pressure anymore.
To me, and I am no expert, I think that it seems they are trying to "create" a false sense of a POI so the person(s) that is/are responsible for Kyron feel more laxed.

Thing is though, whomever was responsible for Kyron last (or took Kyron), what would they do once the "pressure" (from the inside, "conscious") was taken away from them and placed on another?

IF Terri is innocent and IF law enforcement knows that... then yes that makes sense that she would lie about it. But that is really the only situation that makes sense...and it also seems a bit obvious. The real perp would know she was innocent and would be suspicious as to why she failed a polygraph. They might think it WAS a lie. I think something like that might be risky.

I would think serving a search warrant, hauling her in for questioning, taking DNA, processing the vehicles, etc... without forcing media to leave...Misty/Casey type situation, would be more effective in getting a real perp to relax. Focusing on someone else without saying you have any real solid proof they did it. But seem convinced they did, so the perp does not think you are looking anywhere else. If that makes sense...

If law enforcement is actually looking at her as a person of interest...then only her really being asked to take a second polygraph seems to make sense to me. Lying about it would not serve her well.

I don't know... the whole thing reminds me a lot of the intentional media frenzy LE created in the Susan Smith case. It is all very confusing... and I will be very relieved if we ever do get the whole story.

sofia76
06-19-2010, 09:30 PM
Everything pertaining to this situation seems like it's a "lure", not pressure anymore.
To me, and I am no expert, I think that it seems they are trying to "create" a false sense of a POI so the person(s) that is/are responsible for Kyron feel more laxed.

Thing is though, whomever was responsible for Kyron last (or took Kyron), what would they do once the "pressure" (from the inside, "conscious") was taken away from them and placed on another?

Yeah, that's the thing ... if they wanted the person who really took Kyron (assuming he was taken) to relax, what does that mean? That they will try to move a body? What would they do with Terri feeling the heat that would betray the truth to LE? The lure theory just doesn't add up for me.

sherbetjello
06-19-2010, 09:33 PM
I would think serving a search warrant, hauling her in for questioning, taking DNA, processing the vehicles, etc... without forcing media to leave...Misty/Casey type situation, would be more effective in getting a real perp to relax. Focusing on someone else without saying you have any real solid proof they did it. But seem convinced they did, so the perp does not think you are looking anywhere else. If that makes sense...

True, very true. I honestly think that the public doubt can be a very effective measure as well.

You have to also think about the media circus that was involved with Casey Anthony and I believe that most media outlets learned a lesson in that, I would hope. Don't get me wrong, media was needed, but a lot of homeowners were outraged at helicopters and bystanders coming through their neighborhoods all night long. That could be an important factor here, dunno though.

STEADFAST
06-19-2010, 09:33 PM
I look at it this way as far as reliability...

Why would Terri say she was taking a 2nd polygraph if she wasn't? Plus complain about it? That does NOT make her look good. Maybe say that she didn't have to take one because she passed the first one... but lying about taking a second one doesn't make sense.

Jaiyme is childhood friend of Terri's, we know this. We also know that she was around the house, in the house immediately after Kyron disappeared. What motive would SHE have to make her good friend look badly?

Then finally, IF this was not true and it makes Terri look this bad... I find it hard to believe there wouldn't have been a statement issued correcting the statement. By the family, even if LE wouldn't discuss it. Because people thinking Terri may have failed a polygraph, will definite hurt the search for Kyron.

Then again, that's just the way my mind works. :waitasec:

I think you're probably right. But on the other hand, it could be that Terri has been telling her friend all this time that she passed a lie detector test (to boost her credibility), and then slipped and complained about being asked to take a lie detector test now. So now Terri would have to go along with a story that she's taking a second one.
Also, another scenario: Terri's friend makes things up.
And another: This person is not truly Terri's friend and is trying to make her look bad.
And another: The newspaper quoted her wrong.

I mean, I do think you're right. I'm just saying that at this point I don't necessarily believe stories coming from Terri, especially 4th hand.

sherbetjello
06-19-2010, 09:41 PM
Yeah, that's the thing ... if they wanted the person who really took Kyron (assuming he was taken) to relax, what does that mean? That they will try to move a body?

Possibly.

I live in a State where if your story doesn't add up you are immediately taken into questioning and sometimes held. Not the case here, for some reason. Maybe it's just this area that doesn't conduct affairs in this manner.

If the step mom has had such conflicting stories, believe you me, she would of been sitting in a room (here) since day 3 getting drilled.
That's not happening, and again could just be the area of the US that has better ethics in conducting manners like this.

The questionnaire part of this and the lie detector part of this (the lack of it really taking place and or failing it/walking out on it), to me, personally, are huge signs in what they are looking for.

That's why I feel this could be a lure.

I would like to know if everyone there the day Kyron went missing actually filled one out, again, the second time.


In the end, I could be totally wrong. I have never been good at picking up the right signals, and I don't enjoy books about mystery.

I just want this young man found, and brought home to the people that really care and love him.

cluciano63
06-19-2010, 09:51 PM
I think she has been questioned repeatedly and that is what is her friend is alluding to in this article, in the "why don't they believe me" type comments...but LE has to have lots more than suspicion before going any further. What they really want, is a confession and to find out where Kyron can be found, whether from her or another possible suspect. Right now I think they are focusing on her, as they have not been able to rule her out.

Kimster
06-19-2010, 09:53 PM
Please review this thread: *~* Welcome Members and Guests to Kyron's Forum *~* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

EastCoast
06-19-2010, 09:53 PM
Since WS is a victim friendly site, and we all have our thoughts and theories, I will not come out and say what seems the obvious about who is a suspect, but I do believe the friend of SM was put there to do damage control, and hey, it may have backfired on them. It's not like they know how to handle this volatile situation. I will say I have NEVER seen a questionnaire such as this go out before. And my opinion is if this is a ploy to get to the real perp, then the real perp is someone very close to SM.

CarmelEyesD
06-20-2010, 04:31 AM
I also think (in terms of a second polygraph)-if TH had been given medication the first few days.. ie tranquilizers, sedatives...that could have made the results of a polygraph questionable. I don't see anything sinister in requesting a second one if she had been 'tranked' the first few days. JMO

Chili Fries
06-20-2010, 05:32 AM
...but I do believe the friend of SM was put there to do damage control, and hey, it may have backfired on them. It's not like they know how to handle this volatile situation.
I agree with you. I think if it wasn't TH's idea for the friend to speak publicly then she at least had TH's blessing. They figured the friend's story would reinforce the fact that TH is cooperating with LE and let everyone know that she is an innocent person being treated unfairly by LE. Of course they figured wrong but I think it was a concerted attempt to repair her image.

Luxbee
06-20-2010, 08:47 AM
The same friend Jamie was on Good Morning America this morning, they asked her about the polygraph she said yes she was scheduled to take it Saturday but Jamie does not know if she did or not.

MsFacetious
06-20-2010, 12:29 PM
The same friend Jamie was on Good Morning America this morning, they asked her about the polygraph she said yes she was scheduled to take it Saturday but Jamie does not know if she did or not.

:eek: I'm starting to lean towards Terri not agreeing with her talking. They appeared to talk daily, or even multiple times a day before. Even after Kyron went missing, if anything they talked more after because she was helping with everything. :waitasec:

miabellamoure
06-20-2010, 01:14 PM
Everything pertaining to this situation seems like it's a "lure", not pressure anymore.
To me, and I am no expert, I think that it seems they are trying to "create" a false sense of a POI so the person(s) that is/are responsible for Kyron feel more laxed.

Thing is though, whomever was responsible for Kyron last (or took Kyron), what would they do once the "pressure" (from the inside, "conscious") was taken away from them and placed on another?

I think that LE have certainly made it clear who their POI may be in so many words...and to me, IF that POI is the SM...I seriously doubt she's feeling too "laxed" about now.

Chili Fries
06-20-2010, 01:26 PM
:eek: I'm starting to lean towards Terri not agreeing with her talking. They appeared to talk daily, or even multiple times a day before. Even after Kyron went missing, if anything they talked more after because she was helping with everything. :waitasec:

If you watch the GMA video the friend says that Terri supports her speaking out to counter internet speculation.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/

Click on the "Sunday" tab and watch the "Kyron's Stepmom Gets Polygraph" video.

nurseratchett
06-20-2010, 02:00 PM
Very odd in the GMA video how her friend says Terri is frustrated with "the investigation pointing towards her" AND with the "internet blogging". Odd choice of words, "investigation pointing towards her", not just internet rumors....

LNL
06-20-2010, 02:34 PM
Very odd in the GMA video how her friend says Terri is frustrated with "the investigation pointing towards her" AND with the "internet blogging". Odd choice of words, "investigation pointing towards her", not just internet rumors....
I just find it bizarre that someone who has a child missing is bothering to read internet blogs. Perhaps she should step away from the computer and go help find her stepson.

JMO

sofia76
06-20-2010, 02:45 PM
I just find it bizarre that someone who has a child missing is bothering to read internet blogs. Perhaps she should step away from the computer and go help find her stepson.

JMO

I'd be frustrated that my kid hadn't been found!!

SleuthyGal
06-20-2010, 02:47 PM
Did the SM take a poly (a 2nd one)? Dunno. We may not find out for some time. LE is not going to tell us.

This is what happens when there's no actual news on a case. Every word uttered by everyone even slightly peripherally involved gets analyzed down to the butt lint level. Misinformation abounds and then people react to anything they hear or read and run with it. So many people are projecting what they'd do if they had a missing child, how they'd feel, what they'd say. Okay, but how exactly does that solve this case?

None of it tells us what happened THAT day and to THAT little boy. Oh sure I suppose someone can infer the SM's state of mind (or at least try to guess from the massive amounts of flotsam floating about), but it (the gossiping) doesn't solve the case.

Frankly I don't know why LE bothered to hold any press conferences at all. They haven't disclosed any real info, they don't need the public's opinions, the crime is contained to that one school, that one day, and the police obviously believe it's someone either close to or inside the family. The rest of it is a bunch of psychological games being played. No wonder the rumor mongers are having a field day.

There is nothing for anyone else to do, save actually FINDING Kyron at this point. I wish all the gossipers would join teams and do organized searches of every single square inch within that entire county, which would be something useful for a change, rather than playing a form of 'Clue' (it was Mrs. Plum in the LR with the wrench! Aha!)

Ginnie
06-20-2010, 02:53 PM
I live outside Portland, during a newscast about day 2, it was reported that the family pet was missing as well. Does anyone else remember hearing that? I only caught it once.

6angels
06-20-2010, 03:00 PM
If the SM didn't do this. I am going to feel really really bad awful actully. I really in my heart think she was the one but I have been known to be wrong and I am not there in this town or around this family so I have to go by what I feel and what I read ( and God knows that could be wrong as we have seen in this case already).


If I am wrong I will be the first to write a letter to the SM letting her know how sorry I am.

LNL
06-20-2010, 03:01 PM
I live outside Portland, during a newscast about day 2, it was reported that the family pet was missing as well. Does anyone else remember hearing that? I only caught it once.
I vaguely remember something about a cat being missing, but I thought that turned out to be just another rumor.

Ginnie
06-20-2010, 03:07 PM
If the family pet was missing, I can see a neighbor invved using the pet to lure.

winterrose
06-20-2010, 03:19 PM
Hey guys,hope everyone's doing well today.I did read in an article about a cat that would go back and forth with Kyron to his bus.If anything was premeditated,I would wonder if that was part of a plan to make it look like someone watching the home.That actually would make no sense,if someone was watching,why kill thier yard cat?I'm sure that would come up in a polygraph,if an animal was killed from there.See the reaction to that line of questioning.

raeann
06-20-2010, 03:20 PM
I live outside Portland, during a newscast about day 2, it was reported that the family pet was missing as well. Does anyone else remember hearing that? I only caught it once.

That was one of the completely misinterpreted rumors from both posters on the net and news media--who either got it from the forum sites or read the same thing from the same place. There was a statement that said something to the effect of "Kitty is missing Kryon and sits on his bed reading his books" Kitty is not an animal it is a family member nickname.

Somehow the 'kitty" and "missing" were transformed into this convoluted rumor.

jmo

lillygator
06-20-2010, 03:24 PM
did we get results from the first poly? did she fail?

Ginnie
06-20-2010, 03:28 PM
My husband and I both hears that from a local newscast. Not sure where it came from.

Tzedek
06-20-2010, 03:31 PM
Did the SM take a poly (a 2nd one)? Dunno. We may not find out for some time. LE is not going to tell us.

This is what happens when there's no actual news on a case. Every word uttered by everyone even slightly peripherally involved gets analyzed down to the butt lint level. Misinformation abounds and then people react to anything they hear or read and run with it. So many people are projecting what they'd do if they had a missing child, how they'd feel, what they'd say. Okay, but how exactly does that solve this case?

None of it tells us what happened THAT day and to THAT little boy. Oh sure I suppose someone can infer the SM's state of mind (or at least try to guess from the massive amounts of flotsam floating about), but it (the gossiping) doesn't solve the case.

Frankly I don't know why LE bothered to hold any press conferences at all. They haven't disclosed any real info, they don't need the public's opinions, the crime is contained to that one school, that one day, and the police obviously believe it's someone either close to or inside the family. The rest of it is a bunch of psychological games being played. No wonder the rumor mongers are having a field day.

There is nothing for anyone else to do, save actually FINDING Kyron at this point. I wish all the gossipers would join teams and do organized searches of every single square inch within that entire county, which would be something useful for a change, rather than playing a form of 'Clue' (it was Mrs. Plum in the LR with the wrench! Aha!)

Granted, I don't know how these things work, but that is something that has bothered me in this case.

You have a seven-year old child missing. Time is of the essence. Why not have everyone you can possibly scrounge up searching?

Kyron is SOMEWHERE. With all the time that elapsed before it was known he was missing, that 'somewhere' covers a very large territory. Why haven't there been/why aren't there now....calls for thousands of volunteers to literally beat the bushes looking for him?

I know there was talk in the beginning about trained searchers and preserving possible evidence, but...sheesh...what if precious time was lost? It almost feels to me that evidence preservation was more important than finding Kyron. Why? Was something know at the beginning?

And even - G-d forbid - if it is too late to save Kyron's life....isn't it still terribly important to find him? To provide answers to his family? To bring someone to justice?

I am sitting here with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon and feel like myself and everyone else around here should be out looking for Kyron!

RubyRed
06-20-2010, 03:55 PM
Granted, I don't know how these things work, but that is something that has bothered me in this case.

You have a seven-year old child missing. Time is of the essence. Why not have everyone you can possibly scrounge up searching?

Kyron is SOMEWHERE. With all the time that elapsed before it was known he was missing, that 'somewhere' covers a very large territory. Why haven't there been/why aren't there now....calls for thousands of volunteers to literally beat the bushes looking for him?

I know there was talk in the beginning about trained searchers and preserving possible evidence, but...sheesh...what if precious time was lost? It almost feels to me that evidence preservation was more important than finding Kyron. Why? Was something know at the beginning?

And even - G-d forbid - if it is too late to save Kyron's life....isn't it still terribly important to find him? To provide answers to his family? To bring someone to justice?

I am sitting here with nothing to do on a Sunday afternoon and feel like myself and everyone else around here should be out looking for Kyron!

I took my response to the "All searches for Kyron" thread as that is where it should be.

Tzedek
06-20-2010, 04:08 PM
Just yesterday PNWSAR were doing rappels of 165ft. The terrain has been steep, covered in brambles, blackberries and stinging nettles. Definitely not for those that are not trained.

http://www.pnwsar.org/searches?page=1

I understand what you are saying. OTOH...if it was a matter of - G-d forbid - someone disposing of a body, how 'involved' could it or would it have been? Would it not have to have been done fairly quickly (even given the hours that went by between morning drop-off and afternoon bus)? And if the person involved was an "amateur", so to speak, the disposal couldn't have been too elaborate.

If it is a matter of Kyron falling somewhere, I am not seeing where he would be too far off the beaten path, KWIM?

And if he tumbled or was pushed or thrown down a cliff, embankment or what-have-you, wouldn't there be evidence of such at the top...broken branches, etc?

I just can't shake the feeling of the more eyes looking, the better.

And IIRC, there have been missing persons found around here that have been found by civilians.

Perhaps it is just the transplanted midwesterner in me, but it has bothered me that there wasn't a general plea for volunteer searchers when he first went missing.

When out and about running errands, I do find myself constantly scanning the roadside, ditches, bushes, trees...you-name-it and thinking "Where are you, Kyron? Why can't we find you?".

Jaxson
06-21-2010, 04:25 PM
This thread is losing it's focus. It is about the claim of a second polygraph.

Linda7NJ
06-21-2010, 04:54 PM
I am glad that LE is doing polygraphs. I am sure that is basic stuff but since it was never announced you never know. I wonder if anyone else has taken a LDT and if they had to repeat any. Since they can't be used in a trial I don't think they could arrest her if she fails but they can use it to put more pressure on her. Pressure she is obviously feeling.

From the above link.
I am sure the questions are getting more intense. Maybe, if she did this she will confess.


I don't place a great amount of stock in polygraphs. I remember Mark Lunsford's mom failing it! I think it's a great tool for LE, but nothing more. I don 't believe it's the end all be all.

Linda7NJ
06-21-2010, 04:57 PM
I can understand being tired, but frustrated? If my child were missing, I would be agreeing to anything and everything that the police asked of me, so as to help them in any way possible find my child. I would not be frustrated.


If I had nothing to do with it, I would be beyond frustrated! I would want them focusing their efforts on FINDING MY CHILD! I would be cooperative for awhile....then I would probably loose my mind!

scandi
06-21-2010, 05:01 PM
If I had nothing to do with it, I would be beyond frustrated! I would want them focusing their efforts on FINDING MY CHILD! I would be cooperative for awhile....then I would probably loose my mind!

I was surprised last night listening to the local news, but they did report she had taken a second poly on Sat. xox

debs
06-21-2010, 05:02 PM
I believe there was a plea from folks who stated that they themselves would 'do whatever was necessary to clear me so that LE could focus on finding my child' .... which appears to be what LE is asking of Terri. If she's taken a second poly, it was at their request, and for the purpose of finding her child.

Linda7NJ
06-21-2010, 05:10 PM
I believe there was a plea from folks who stated that they themselves would 'do whatever was necessary to clear me so that LE could focus on finding my child' .... which appears to be what LE is asking of Terri. If she's taken a second poly, it was at their request, and for the purpose of finding her child.


But if my child were missing, and LE's focus seemed to be directed at me, excluding all other possibilities and I had nothing to do with the disappearance....I would be more than angry and belligerent!

That's when you're between a rock and a hard place. If you stop cooperating and lawyer up people assume your guilty. If you continue cooperating and law enforcement remains focused on you, your child isn't going to be found nor is the perpetrator.

In this case, that's what appears to be happening. They aren't looking at anyone else. I hope LE is right.