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evelyn24
04-19-2011, 07:53 AM
I am watching the show now, from taping it last hour...they talked about the various sightings of Morgan that night, including the newspaper lady and the woman who said she saw her cross, somewhat wobbly, the street near the stadium with 3 men. Talked about the finding the shirt, determined it was her shirt. Poor Morgan.

PS: Nothing really new on this show, they talked about the DNA match and just said they hope to solve the case someday, would not talk about cause of death, still not being revealed. Her parents were on the show.
I really was hoping for more details on the DNA, and COD but I understand why they can't release it.
At least doing the show gets the information back out to the public again.

The show kind of made the newspaper lady's sighting out to be less than credible.

Girlrilla
04-19-2011, 08:25 AM
Why can't they release it? I have been away from this case since not long after the body was found.

cluciano63
04-19-2011, 09:37 AM
I don't know why they won't release COD. They have DNA, so it is not as though they would need to verify COD from someone who might be giving a false confession.

Vabrownid1
04-19-2011, 10:03 AM
That was the first I had heard about the newspaper lady. I thought they last saw her on the bridge. Makes me wonder about the 3 guys that were with her when the newspaper lady saw them. Wonder if they were College Students or locals? I often think of the earlier posts about the field parties that were held at that farm attended mainly by college students.

Dejasade
04-19-2011, 12:07 PM
I watched last night...not much new..
However, I may have missed it, but did the newspaper lady who thought she saw Morgan, say that the girl was wearing a Pantera t-shirt?
This is such an odd case....how no one saw anything about the shirt being thrown in the bush. I think that must mean the perp lives in the area, right?? I was hoping that someone would put a connection between the first attack in 2005 (northern VA) and someone possibly moving near Charlottesville area....
I have faith they will catch this guy....you know he'll attack again. Maybe this time he'll get caught and they'll have his DNA.

carbuff
04-19-2011, 01:52 PM
The newspaper lady's story wasn't given a whole lot of credibility when it first came to light last year, either.

dog.gone.cute
04-19-2011, 02:29 PM
Hello Everyone,

I watched the "Disappeared" show last night on Morgan.

I remember when she went missing, but I did not know that her body had been found :( until I read it here at WS about a week ago.

There are a few things that are "bothering" me (and some of my questions are based on my experience going to concerts "back in the day" .. in the 80's and 90's.. LOL).

Morgan was so looking forward to the "Metallica Concert" and had purchased the tickets months in advance (on the show, it was said that the tickets were on a magnet on the refrigerator at her parent's home for months).

At the concert, she goes to the "ladies room" and ends up "outside" the arena -- she cannot get back in because of the arena's "re-entry policy" (which is pretty standard for concerts -- no re-entries). If I remember correctly, Morgan called one of her friends when she could not get back into the arena and told her friend that she would get a ride ? (If this is not correct, please correct me). I am wondering if her friend may have misunderstood what Morgan said to her via the cell phone because it is very loud in those arenas. Or, could she have sent a text message because this is how many people that age communicate, or why didn't she send a text ? :banghead:

I am just NOT understanding how you go to the ladies room and end up "outside" the arena. One thing that came to mind is if you saw someone you knew but to go outside with them ? No, you'd talk to them inside so could she have been "lured" into going outside ? Did someone slip her something in her drink ? :banghead:

Another thing that puzzles me is this: is it known if Morgan TRIED to get back in the arena ? Did any of the ticket-takers recognize her as trying to get back in ? Also, if she had her "ticket stub" on her did she at least try to get back in even though there is a no re-entry policy ? :banghead:

One more thing : Did any of her friends -- that she went to the concert with -- try to call Morgan AFTER the concert to see where she was and if was okay ? :banghead:

I would immediately think something is wrong if I was at a concert with friends and my friend -- who had tickets for months for this concert -- ended up outside the arena and did not get to see the main band ! This just does NOT make any sense to me ! I definitely would have went to the front entrance and talked to a manager at the arena or someone to help my friend get back in. :banghead:

While I understand when you are at a concert, you are drinking, partying ... but if your friend does not return from the rest room and you rode with her and you do not know where she is or if she is safe or at home even though she called and said something about getting a ride home -- which makes no sense ... wouldn't you at least go the Security Dept at the arena for some help ?

Sorry for the rant ... maybe I just do not know enough facts of the case ...

I hope there will be Justice for Morgan soon !

iluvmua
04-19-2011, 03:24 PM
Hello Everyone,

I watched the "Disappeared" show last night on Morgan.

I remember when she went missing, but I did not know that her body had been found :( until I read it here at WS about a week ago.

There are a few things that are "bothering" me (and some of my questions are based on my experience going to concerts "back in the day" .. in the 80's and 90's.. LOL).

Morgan was so looking forward to the "Metallica Concert" and had purchased the tickets months in advance (on the show, it was said that the tickets were on a magnet on the refrigerator at her parent's home for months).

At the concert, she goes to the "ladies room" and ends up "outside" the arena -- she cannot get back in because of the arena's "re-entry policy" (which is pretty standard for concerts -- no re-entries). If I remember correctly, Morgan called one of her friends when she could not get back into the arena and told her friend that she would get a ride ? (If this is not correct, please correct me). I am wondering if her friend may have misunderstood what Morgan said to her via the cell phone because it is very loud in those arenas. Or, could she have sent a text message because this is how many people that age communicate, or why didn't she send a text ? :banghead:

I am just NOT understanding how you go to the ladies room and end up "outside" the arena. One thing that came to mind is if you saw someone you knew but to go outside with them ? No, you'd talk to them inside so could she have been "lured" into going outside ? Did someone slip her something in her drink ? :banghead:

Another thing that puzzles me is this: is it known if Morgan TRIED to get back in the arena ? Did any of the ticket-takers recognize her as trying to get back in ? Also, if she had her "ticket stub" on her did she at least try to get back in even though there is a no re-entry policy ? :banghead:

One more thing : Did any of her friends -- that she went to the concert with -- try to call Morgan AFTER the concert to see where she was and if was okay ? :banghead:

I would immediately think something is wrong if I was at a concert with friends and my friend -- who had tickets for months for this concert -- ended up outside the arena and did not get to see the main band ! This just does NOT make any sense to me ! I definitely would have went to the front entrance and talked to a manager at the arena or someone to help my friend get back in. :banghead:

While I understand when you are at a concert, you are drinking, partying ... but if your friend does not return from the rest room and you rode with her and you do not know where she is or if she is safe or at home even though she called and said something about getting a ride home -- which makes no sense ... wouldn't you at least go the Security Dept at the arena for some help ?

Sorry for the rant ... maybe I just do not know enough facts of the case ...

I hope there will be Justice for Morgan soon !


1. I believe so
2. I think she went to every entry point and they all told her she could not get in unless she had her ticket stub which she did not (a friend had it).
3. I think they did; also I think she first went to the RR and then went outside the arena to smoke.

cluciano63
04-19-2011, 03:31 PM
The show did make is sound as though it was known that she was told she could not get back in and also that she tried and/or pleaded.

I also think she probably went out for a smoke. Not sure how she got so wobbly, if she did, unless she took sips from bottles that were being passed around.

I think the news lady said she wore all black, except her legs were bare, no tights.

They put out a drawing of the suspect and he is an AA male I believe? I wonder if they did the DNA race ethnic profile, or are going off the surviving victim's description, where the DNA also matched.

carbuff
04-19-2011, 03:57 PM
This article from The Hook that appeared around the anniversary of finding Morgan's body has answers to most of the questions that are being asked: http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

Not much answer to the "why she left," however. But it's clear that she did.

dog.gone.cute
04-19-2011, 04:03 PM
1. I believe so
2. I think she went to every entry point and they all told her she could not get in unless she had her ticket stub which she did not (a friend had it).
3. I think they did; also I think she first went to the RR and then went outside the arena to smoke.

Thank You.

But -- if Morgan did not have her ticket stub and a friend had it, why didn't she call the friend or send her a text message and ask the friend to bring it to her at the entrance ?

Back in the "ole days" you could smoke in the arenas and stadiums -- but the last few arenas I have been in have a Smoking Section that you go outside to smoke and then you go right back in to the arena when finished -- no re-entry process -- just a convenience area for the smokers.

I wonder if this arena had this ?

carbuff
04-19-2011, 04:49 PM
Thank You.

But -- if Morgan did not have her ticket stub and a friend had it, why didn't she call the friend or send her a text message and ask the friend to bring it to her at the entrance ?

Back in the "ole days" you could smoke in the arenas and stadiums -- but the last few arenas I have been in have a Smoking Section that you go outside to smoke and then you go right back in to the arena when finished -- no re-entry process -- just a convenience area for the smokers.

I wonder if this arena had this ?

They did, but that's not where she went.

The arena had a no-reentry policy. It wasn't a matter of ticket stub. From the Hook article, http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case:

As the Hook first reported in the weeks after her disappearance, numerous witnesses inside the Arena reported erratic behavior. Cappuzzo says she left her friends to use the ladies room sometime after 8pm while opening act Lamb of God was on stage. While on her own, at some point, she fell and injured her chin. Cappuzzo says multiple witnesses reported seeing the injury and offering assistance-- one woman saw Morgan applying paper towels to her face to blot blood from a "minor injury." Morgan, he says, rebuffed all offers of help.

The Arena's no re-entry policy has been a source of controversy, and Cappuzzo at last addressed questions about the moment Morgan left the Arena. While some have speculated that she was lured outside, Cappuzzo revealed that a ticket taker warned Morgan about the Arena's no re-entry policy as she prepared to exit through the main doors facing Copeley Road. Morgan acknowledged the warning, Cappuzzo says, then left anyway, where she was seen emptying the contents of her purse in an apparently unsuccessful effort to find her red Kodak digital camera, which has never been recovered. Standing in front of the Arena, witnesses also reported seeing her drop her phone, then retrieve it.

When she tried to reenter through the main entrance of the Arena, says Cappuzzo, the ticket taker asked for her ticket.

"She said, 'It's in pieces in my purse,'" says Cappuzzo, who says the ticket taker stopped her when it appeared she planned to dump the contents of her purse again. Told she'd need to purchase another ticket if she wanted to return, Morgan left the Arena a second time and remained in the immediate area for as long as 10 or 15 minutes, interacting with various concertgoers--- several of whom offered her assistance, which she again declined.

dog.gone.cute
04-19-2011, 05:35 PM
:gthanks:

I will check out these links !

quiqui
04-19-2011, 06:21 PM
I just watched the Disappeared episode (it's going to re-air next Sunday for anyone who missed it. Or if you are impatient like me, you can also download it on iTunes).

I hope that even though there wasn't much new information for those of us who have been following the case, it reached some new viewers. I still have hope this won't turn into a completely cold case.

I thought the end of the episode...closing by mentioning all the good that is being done in Morgan's name was especially touching. As always, I'm impressed with her family.

SassyBenton
04-19-2011, 07:41 PM
I watched the Disappeared episode last night and have been following this case since the beginning. The detective interviewed seemed very defensive and I am still bothered by how dismissive the police were with the newspaper delivery lady. She seemed quite credible to me and she wasn’t the only person to see Morgan with a group of men that night. Why were they so quick to discredit her story?

My theory/thoughts/questions:

1. I believe Morgan befriended a group of UVA students/locals in the parking lot after she couldn’t get back into the concert. I think she left with them to party/hangout. After hanging out for awhile, one of the men offered Morgan a ride home or a ride back to the arena to try to meet up with her friends after the concert. The man then took Morgan to a remote location (farm where her body was found) and harmed her. He knew of this location prior and thought it was unlikely her body would be found there.


2. I know Morgan’s friends who were with her that night have made a few public comments, but it seems like for the most part they have been pretty quiet. I have always found this a little odd and wondered if perhaps they knew she had taken some kind of drug prior to/or at the concert but didn’t want to admit it. Most concert venues do not allow drinking inside, not to mention that fact that even if alcohol was being served at the concert, Morgan wasn’t old enough to buy a drink. So how could someone have drugged/slipped something into her drink at the concert? Doesn’t really seem plausible to me.

3. Morgan’s friends admitted that she had been drinking but was not intoxicated. Where did she consume this alcohol and who supplied it?


I have faith that the perpetrator will be caught one day and justice for Morgan will be served.

Girlrilla
04-19-2011, 11:25 PM
After watching the Disappeared show what spooked me the most is that this perp who has done this before, just happened to come upon Morgan that night. I wonder if he was on the prowl that night, or just happened to run into her by chance. If on the prowl, just shows you how a sex offender targets their victim in such a calculated manner...if happened by chance, still, shows how he quickly took advantage of a crime of opportunity. Scary...I took some risks in college at times. Nothing too crazy, just things you do when you're younger and gaining independence, not thinking about all the freaks out there.

cluciano63
04-19-2011, 11:55 PM
I think it is possible that all the witnesses were right, but that Morgan somehow ended up alone and was a target. Whoever killed her attacked the other woman way back in 2005 and that was probably not someone who would be of student age in 2009.

It sounds to me like she had taken, knowingly or not, some sort of drug. If so many people noticed her and offered her help, she must have really been stumbling around. I doubt she would be that from alcohol, as she had probably had alcohol before. It sounds more like downers or something to me.

evelyn24
04-20-2011, 07:56 AM
The newspaper lady's story wasn't given a whole lot of credibility when it first came to light last year, either.

I think it's because LE is working on a theory she was nabbed at the Copley Street bridge and was mostly likely dead within a few hours.
I think the perp read about this lady's sighting too, because two weeks after Morgan's disappearance and after the area was searched Morgan's shirt turns up very visible in the bushes by the dorms. Talk about trying to throw off the police. Oy.

Walker
04-20-2011, 04:56 PM
After Morgan left JPP at app. 8:20 pm 10/17/09:

1. According to the Hook: Morgan told the ticket taker at JPJ that her ticket was in her pack "in pieces."

2. Per the ID show (which I haven't actually seen): one of the men Morgan met outside the arena asked her if she had a ticket to get back in. She told him, yes.

3. Morgan had enough cash to just buy a new ticket to be readmitted.

4. Per the ID show: Morgan in fact did not have her ticket; a friend had it in his/her possession at that point in time.

5. Morgan's ticket was never recovered by the police.

Could someone verify statements 2 and 4 for me?

Statements 3 and 5 came from source who supposedly has inside info.

Let's assume that all the statements are true. Doesn't it sound as if Morgan was not interested in returning to the concert?

If Morgan's friend had the ticket, wouldn't this person likely deliver it to the police as evidence that Morgan had in fact attended the concert?

Vabrownid1
04-21-2011, 10:07 AM
After Morgan left JPP at app. 8:20 pm 10/17/09:

1. According to the Hook: Morgan told the ticket taker at JPJ that her ticket was in her pack "in pieces."

2. Per the ID show (which I haven't actually seen): one of the men Morgan met outside the arena asked her if she had a ticket to get back in. She told him, yes.

3. Morgan had enough cash to just buy a new ticket to be readmitted.

4. Per the ID show: Morgan in fact did not have her ticket; a friend had it in his/her possession at that point in time.

5. Morgan's ticket was never recovered by the police.

Could someone verify statements 2 and 4 for me?

Statements 3 and 5 came from source who supposedly has inside info.

Let's assume that all the statements are true. Doesn't it sound as if Morgan was not interested in returning to the concert?
If Morgan's friend had the ticket, wouldn't this person likely deliver it to the police as evidence that Morgan had in fact attended the concert?


BBM

This is very strange because her Mother stressed how much Morgan was looking forward to the concert and how excited she was about it that day. It just doesn't make sense that she would not try to get back in. Call her friend to bring her ticket stub down to the door or something.

carbuff
04-21-2011, 02:35 PM
BBM

This is very strange because her Mother stressed how much Morgan was looking forward to the concert and how excited she was about it that day. It just doesn't make sense that she would not try to get back in. Call her friend to bring her ticket stub down to the door or something.

This question has been answered repeatedly. If you read the Hook article, the arena has a NO RE-ENTRY policy. That means you can't get back in even with a ticket stub. (http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case)

The Arena's no re-entry policy has been a source of controversy, and Cappuzzo at last addressed questions about the moment Morgan left the Arena. While some have speculated that she was lured outside, Cappuzzo revealed that a ticket taker warned Morgan about the Arena's no re-entry policy as she prepared to exit through the main doors facing Copeley Road. Morgan acknowledged the warning, Cappuzzo says, then left anyway, where she was seen emptying the contents of her purse in an apparently unsuccessful effort to find her red Kodak digital camera, which has never been recovered. Standing in front of the Arena, witnesses also reported seeing her drop her phone, then retrieve it.

When she tried to reenter through the main entrance of the Arena, says Cappuzzo, the ticket taker asked for her ticket.

"She said, 'It's in pieces in my purse,'" says Cappuzzo, who says the ticket taker stopped her when it appeared she planned to dump the contents of her purse again. Told she'd need to purchase another ticket if she wanted to return, Morgan left the Arena a second time and remained in the immediate area for as long as 10 or 15 minutes, interacting with various concertgoers--- several of whom offered her assistance, which she again declined.

Walker
04-22-2011, 01:05 AM
This question has been answered repeatedly. If you read the Hook article, the arena has a NO RE-ENTRY policy. That means you can't get back in even with a ticket stub.

Yes, but if she and maybe her friends were to ask to speak to a manager, they may have waived the new ticket requirement.

According to that site which supposedly has inside info, Morgan had enough cash to cover a new ticket.

JMO a group is responsible for the murder.

Morgan was most probably not mugged in the RV lot; because the timeline is too tight.

[http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

Plus, the timeline in this link:
http://www.readthehook.com/69711/bridge-morgan-harrington-last-seen-over-train-tracks]

9:00 pm The basketball players (students) left JPJ. Morgan joined them. They walked to the RV lot.

9:10 - 9:20 - Harrington in the RV Lot with "limited interaction" with witnesses

9:20 - Some witnesses leave in vehicles
[After the basketball players left, Morgan then encountered the non-students witnesses who saw her curtsy.]

9:20 pm The father and daughter saw her on the bridge hitchhiking.

If Morgan were mugged or violently attacked by someone who then threw her pack and her cell on the lawn, one of these witnesses would have observed either the incident itself or Morgan being extremely distraught, fleeing or perhaps trying to flag a car down.

Let's imagine that Morgan had been attacked in the RV lot. Then according to the father and daughter witnesses, she would have apparently had managed to have escaped this thug to at least make it to the bridge on her own. To have been attacked by a mugger, and then picked up right away by a random killer, is too much of a coincidence for such a very short period of time.

My conclusion is that the pack and the cell were a plant.

The pack was found early the next morning, and turned in to an office in the Cage Lot. Therefore JMO the murder took place quickly that very night, and the pack and cell were brought back to the RV lot after Morgan was already dead.

http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/police_reports/oct09.txt


PROPERTY FOUND – Cage Parking Lot 200901379/45
Reported purse found
RPT: 0819 10-18-09 OCC: 0800 10-18-09
CASE STATUS: Active

The simplest explanation is that the killers picked Morgan up on the bridge where she was "hitchhiking" just before 9:30 pm.

More than one person had to be responsible. Else how could one guy restrain Morgan, remove the cell battery (which occurred at exactly 9:30 pm) and also move the car quickly enough back into traffic so that no one would notice that the car had been stopped?

A group picked Morgan up on the bridge. She most likely got into the car willingly. And, one of the group (perhaps surreptitiously) removed the battery from the cell.

Walker
04-22-2011, 01:29 AM
BBM

This is very strange because her Mother stressed how much Morgan was looking forward to the concert and how excited she was about it that day.

The concert may have been just a cover for Morgan's true intention that night: to meet up with a group for some event.

This group planned well in advance to murder Morgan.

They managed to talk her into not informing her parents about her plans to meet up with them that night by using some nonsensical excuse like that it would bring bad karma or ruin the spell or cause embarrassing gossip if anyone knew about the weird event.

This group somehow manipulated Morgan to cooperate with their evil plans.

They told Morgan to leave the concert, to wait around until Metallica actually took the stage, and then to walk to some designated landmark far from the crowds around JPJ. They didn't want anyone to see her get into their car.

The landmark happened to be something near the RV lot, which is why Morgan joined the students also walking in that direction. Morgan had misgivings. Therefore, she asked the students for a ride somewhere.

Who is this weird group? Seems to me that Morgan's most immediate associates, aside from her family, would probably be at her college. JMO: at least one of the group is associated with VTech.

carbuff
04-22-2011, 08:50 AM
Yes, but if she and maybe her friends were to ask to speak to a manager, they may have waived the new ticket requirement.

According to that site which supposedly has inside info, Morgan had enough cash to cover a new ticket.

JMO a group is responsible for the murder.

Morgan was most probably not mugged in the RV lot; because the timeline is too tight.

[http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

Plus, the timeline in this link:
http://www.readthehook.com/69711/bridge-morgan-harrington-last-seen-over-train-tracks]

9:00 pm The basketball players (students) left JPJ. Morgan joined them. They walked to the RV lot.

9:10 - 9:20 - Harrington in the RV Lot with "limited interaction" with witnesses

9:20 - Some witnesses leave in vehicles
[After the basketball players left, Morgan then encountered the non-students witnesses who saw her curtsy.]

9:20 pm The father and daughter saw her on the bridge hitchhiking.

If Morgan were mugged or violently attacked by someone who then threw her pack and her cell on the lawn, one of these witnesses would have observed either the incident itself or Morgan being extremely distraught, fleeing or perhaps trying to flag a car down.

Let's imagine that Morgan had been attacked in the RV lot. Then according to the father and daughter witnesses, she would have apparently had managed to have escaped this thug to at least make it to the bridge on her own. To have been attacked by a mugger, and then picked up right away by a random killer, is too much of a coincidence for such a very short period of time.

My conclusion is that the pack and the cell were a plant.

The pack was found early the next morning, and turned in to an office in the Cage Lot. Therefore JMO the murder took place quickly that very night, and the pack and cell were brought back to the RV lot after Morgan was already dead.

http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/police_reports/oct09.txt



The simplest explanation is that the killers picked Morgan up on the bridge where she was "hitchhiking" just before 9:30 pm.

More than one person had to be responsible. Else how could one guy restrain Morgan, remove the cell battery (which occurred at exactly 9:30 pm) and also move the car quickly enough back into traffic so that no one would notice that the car had been stopped?

A group picked Morgan up on the bridge. She most likely got into the car willingly. And, one of the group (perhaps surreptitiously) removed the battery from the cell.

I agree with most of what you say -- which also matches the reported facts and the police theory -- except for the part about more than one person being necessary to restrain her. If she was looking for a ride and somebody who looked "safe" stopped for her, she would have hopped right in the car with no need for the violence and restraint. By the time the car was moving, even if Morgan sensed something wrong, it would have been too late. We know the cell phone battery often fell out, so it might just be the killer's good luck that he didn't have to disable it. Or maybe when she took it out and tried to call for help, he slapped it out of her hand and the battery came out.

As for buying another ticket -- Morgan was certainly not thinking rationally at that point, so who knows why she decided. Talking to the manager wasn't going to be an option. I mean, really, underage drinking and you're going to talk to a guy who more than likely will just call the cops on you? Right. Not to mention that there are dozens if not hundreds of kids trying to get in for free by coming up with similar tales of woe.

evelyn24
04-22-2011, 09:00 AM
You cannot purchase tickets once the concert starts, at least from the ticket agency. You'd have to hit up a scalper which can be expensive.

Walker
04-22-2011, 08:12 PM
You cannot purchase tickets once the concert starts, at least from the ticket agency. You'd have to hit up a scalper which can be expensive.

Can you buy one from the window at JPJ? At what point that evening, would JPJ have stopped selling tickets?

Walker
04-22-2011, 09:13 PM
I agree with most of what you say -- which also matches the reported facts and the police theory -- except for the part about more than one person being necessary to restrain her. If she was looking for a ride and somebody who looked "safe" stopped for her, she would have hopped right in the car with no need for the violence and restraint. By the time the car was moving, even if Morgan sensed something wrong, it would have been too late.

How would a lone perpetrator physically manage to drive and restrain Morgan at the same time?


We know the cell phone battery often fell out, so it might just be the killer's good luck that he didn't have to disable it.

The witnesses place Morgan on the bridge at 9:30pm. Therefore, battery removal must have been immediate. The timing seems too perfect for an accident, but it's not impossible.

carbuff
04-23-2011, 09:48 AM
How would a lone perpetrator physically manage to drive and restrain Morgan at the same time?



Well, the easiest way is to keep chatting nice and friendly so she doesn't realize something is wrong. Morgan seems to have been a friendly gregarious person; chatting her up woudn't have been too difficult. And if she does start to suspect something, just keep moving. Hardly anybody is going to attack the driver of a car that's moving at any speed. If she does, he can punch her and knock her out. Or maybe he's holding her at gun or knife point.

Seriously. Once she's in the car is moving at a good pace, what is she going to do? Attack him and cause an accident that might kill them both? Jumped out at 45mph and gotten killed? (Before they found Morgan's body, they had that one search along the highway in the high speed lane -- I've always wondered if she didn't try to escape from the moving car.)

Walker
04-23-2011, 11:47 PM
(Before they found Morgan's body, they had that one search along the highway in the high speed lane -- I've always wondered if she didn't try to escape from the moving car.)

Interesting.

You mean the search of Rt 64 near Crozet in mid-December. Might explain the shattered bones.

carbuff
04-24-2011, 12:00 AM
Interesting.

You mean the search of Rt 64 near Crozet in mid-December. Might explain the shattered bones.

Yes, that search.

Walker
04-24-2011, 06:20 PM
If Morgan were in a car on Rt. 64 that night; then possibly she managed to persuade someone to give her a ride home, just exactly as she told her concert companion in the 8:48 pm cell call.

But something happened?

Shortly after that search, LE terminated searches for Morgan.

Walker
04-24-2011, 06:25 PM
In the ID show, the police officer suggests that the reason that Morgan was hitching a ride was that she felt "desperate" since her cell phone was not working. However, the cell phone did not disconnect from its battery until 9:30pm. Morgan reportedly began hitchhiking at 9:20 pm.

Maybe the cell phone was not working for some other reason.

noZme
04-24-2011, 10:25 PM
I am not current on this case, but I did see about 5 minutes of the ID show whwre there was mention of her shirt being found. I remember "the shirt" being banned from WS discussion right after it's discovery & I never understood why. Can someone explain? And thanks in advance.

Walker
04-24-2011, 10:50 PM
I am not current on this case, but I did see about 5 minutes of the ID show whwre there was mention of her shirt being found. I remember "the shirt" being banned from WS discussion right after it's discovery & I never understood why. Can someone explain? And thanks in advance.



Neighbors complained of harrassment.

Walker
04-24-2011, 10:55 PM
I don't know why they won't release COD. They have DNA, so it is not as though they would need to verify COD from someone who might be giving a false confession.

The man known as "Sketch" may not have been the actual murderer, but only an accomplice, or possibly not involved.

Walker
04-24-2011, 11:00 PM
I watched last night...not much new..
However, I may have missed it, but did the newspaper lady who thought she saw Morgan, say that the girl was wearing a Pantera t-shirt?


The newspaper lady said that Morgan had her hair tucked into a coat.

Walker
04-24-2011, 11:19 PM
Yes, but if she and maybe her friends were to ask to speak to a manager, they may have waived the new ticket requirement.

According to that site which supposedly has inside info, Morgan had enough cash to cover a new ticket.

JMO a group is responsible for the murder.

Morgan was most probably not mugged in the RV lot; because the timeline is too tight.

[http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

Plus, the timeline in this link:
http://www.readthehook.com/69711/bridge-morgan-harrington-last-seen-over-train-tracks]

9:00 pm The basketball players (students) left JPJ. Morgan joined them. They walked to the RV lot.

9:10 - 9:20 - Harrington in the RV Lot with "limited interaction" with witnesses

9:20 - Some witnesses leave in vehicles
[After the basketball players left, Morgan then encountered the non-students witnesses who saw her curtsy.]

9:20 pm The father and daughter saw her on the bridge hitchhiking.

If Morgan were mugged or violently attacked by someone who then threw her pack and her cell on the lawn, one of these witnesses would have observed either the incident itself or Morgan being extremely distraught, fleeing or perhaps trying to flag a car down.

Let's imagine that Morgan had been attacked in the RV lot. Then according to the father and daughter witnesses, she would have apparently had managed to have escaped this thug to at least make it to the bridge on her own. To have been attacked by a mugger, and then picked up right away by a random killer, is too much of a coincidence for such a very short period of time.

My conclusion is that the pack and the cell were a plant.

The pack was found early the next morning, and turned in to an office in the Cage Lot. Therefore JMO the murder took place quickly that very night, and the pack and cell were brought back to the RV lot after Morgan was already dead.

http://www.virginia.edu/uvapolice/police_reports/oct09.txt



The simplest explanation is that the killers picked Morgan up on the bridge where she was "hitchhiking" just before 9:30 pm.

More than one person had to be responsible. Else how could one guy restrain Morgan, remove the cell battery (which occurred at exactly 9:30 pm) and also move the car quickly enough back into traffic so that no one would notice that the car had been stopped?

A group picked Morgan up on the bridge. She most likely got into the car willingly. And, one of the group (perhaps surreptitiously) removed the battery from the cell.

The ID show depicted the purse as much smaller than a regular-sized pack.

Morgan could not have left the purse and the cell behind herself.

If she had dropped them on the lawn in a disoriented state, then how could the battery have been removed at exactly 9:30 pm, nearly the exact time which Morgan was probably accepting a ride on the Copeley St. bridge?

But if the perp(s) decided to plant the purse and cell, they must have been sure that she actually had been in the RV lot earlier that night.

Therefore, someone must have been observing her before she went hitchhiking on the bridge.

Walker
04-24-2011, 11:28 PM
At the end of the ID show, heartbreakingly, Mr. Harrington, Morgan's father, describes how his daughter will never finish college, never get married, never have children, and never have a career. Then, he says that the killer continues to do all these things. Maybe he didn't mean this expression in a literal sense, but perhaps Morgan's parents suspect that the killer is a college student or a professional associated with one of Virginia's colleges.

Walker
04-25-2011, 07:36 PM
After Morgan left JPP at app. 8:20 pm 10/17/09:

1. According to the Hook: Morgan told the ticket taker at JPJ that her ticket was in her pack "in pieces."

2. Per the ID show (which I haven't actually seen): one of the men Morgan met outside the arena asked her if she had a ticket to get back in. She told him, yes.

3. Morgan had enough cash to just buy a new ticket to be readmitted.

4. Per the ID show: Morgan in fact did not have her ticket; a friend had it in his/her possession at that point in time.

5. Morgan's ticket was never recovered by the police.

Could someone verify statements 2 and 4 for me?

Statements 3 and 5 came from source who supposedly has inside info.

Let's assume that all the statements are true. Doesn't it sound as if Morgan was not interested in returning to the concert?

If Morgan's friend had the ticket, wouldn't this person likely deliver it to the police as evidence that Morgan had in fact attended the concert?

Saw the ID show on YouTube. According to the show, statement 2 is true, but statement 4 is not true. Morgan told someone outside the arena that she had her ticket, and the ID show did not state that anyone else had the ticket in their possession at that point in time. Seems likely that Morgan did in fact have her ticket. She spent about 45 minutes total outside the arena, but refused offers of help.

Walker
04-25-2011, 07:50 PM
1. I believe so
2. I think she went to every entry point and they all told her she could not get in unless she had her ticket stub which she did not (a friend had it).
3. I think they did; also I think she first went to the RR and then went outside the arena to smoke.

The JPJ policy is that you cannot get in even if you do have your ticket stub. As to whether being readmitted is actually possible, opinions conflict.

Morgan herself most probably had her own ticket stub. She told the ticket taker at the entrance that it was "in pieces" in her purse. A person outside the arena also asked her if she had a ticket, and she replied yes.

As far as the information presented in the media, no source has stated that Morgan tried to be readmitted at every entrance.

Morgan did not call her concert companions. One of them called her at 8:48 pm. Morgan left the JPJ area at about 9:00pm.

Therefore, JMO seems like she wasn't really trying that hard to get back in.

arielilane
04-26-2011, 06:27 PM
I hope that with the recent show on the ID channel someone will come forward with what they know.

The lady who stated Morgan's hair was tucked inside her coat is interesting. This case is horrible and what's worse is that there is no answers. Unfortunately, it will happen again. I hope someone speaks up.

The t-shirt being found is a huge discovery, but I guess we still can't talk about that? The location - speaks volumes...


Dr. and Mrs. Harrington are charismatic and I find them to be outstanding people. I hope their nightmare ends soon.

carbuff
04-26-2011, 07:09 PM
I hope that with the recent show on the ID channel someone will come forward with what they know.

The lady who stated Morgan's hair was tucked inside her coat is interesting. This case is horrible and what's worse is that there is no answers. Unfortunately, it will happen again. I hope someone speaks up.

The t-shirt being found is a huge discovery, but I guess we still can't talk about that? The location - speaks volumes...


Dr. and Mrs. Harrington are charismatic and I find them to be outstanding people. I hope their nightmare ends soon.

I assume it's still off limits, since nothing has been officially released about it that I'm aware of. Or did they talk about it on the TV show? If we can quote a transcript or link to a video, I think we're allowed to discuss whatever they talked about.

Shear22
04-26-2011, 07:33 PM
Does this help?

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons

carbuff
04-26-2011, 07:54 PM
Does this help?

http://www.readthehook.com/67960/pantera-find-shirt-15th-street-was-morgan-harringtons

Dunno. That might be the article we originally weren't supposed to discuss. The Hook wasn't considered MSM, or something. I never did understand it...

redsky
04-26-2011, 11:51 PM
The Harringtons are classy people. They have done everything they needed too. I can see the pain in their face and hear it in their voice. I feel for them.
Before this happened, I had walked around UVA many times at night and often by myself. I never felt scared. Now I won't walk by myself anymore.
As arielilane said - it will happen again. Not necessarily at UVA but likely somewhere in VA.

evelyn24
04-26-2011, 11:56 PM
I hope that with the recent show on the ID channel someone will come forward with what they know.

The lady who stated Morgan's hair was tucked inside her coat is interesting. This case is horrible and what's worse is that there is no answers. Unfortunately, it will happen again. I hope someone speaks up.

The t-shirt being found is a huge discovery, but I guess we still can't talk about that? The location - speaks volumes...


Dr. and Mrs. Harrington are charismatic and I find them to be outstanding people. I hope their nightmare ends soon.

As long as this guy is out there and has his demons, it will definitely happen again.

I can't believe he doesn't have a record of some kind with DNA on file. Shocking, really.

carbuff
04-27-2011, 12:13 AM
As long as this guy is out there and has his demons, it will definitely happen again.

I can't believe he doesn't have a record of some kind with DNA on file. Shocking, really.

It's probably in those tens of thousands of rape kits that are reported to be sitting unprocessed in labs and storage lockers all over the country.

redsky
04-27-2011, 04:50 AM
It's probably in those tens of thousands of rape kits that are reported to be sitting unprocessed in labs and storage lockers all over the country.

Probably, :sick:

MBLover
04-27-2011, 09:32 AM
I saw Mrs. Harrington the other day at a local grocery store. I was behind her in the check-out line. I wanted to say something to her...but for some reason I couldn't manage to speak, it was like I had lost my voice. All I could do was stare at the large cuff bracelet she was wearing...the one Morgan was wearing...

kwatmac
04-27-2011, 10:19 AM
Saw the ID show on YouTube. According to the show, statement 2 is true, but statement 4 is not true. Morgan told someone outside the arena that she had her ticket, and the ID show did not state that anyone else had the ticket in their possession at that point in time. Seems likely that Morgan did in fact have her ticket. She spent about 45 minutes total outside the arena, but refused offers of help.

BBM

What was the name of the video? or do you have a link? I tried searching for it and nothing came up! I would love to see it online :)
TIA

LadyBug99
04-27-2011, 10:46 AM
The t shirt is not off limits. At the time when it was discovered it was. Posts here were deleted at the time and I received a PM from a mod saying that they had been asked to remove all posts concerning the shirt. Since LE has come forward and stated that the shirt is Morgan's, it is now fair game.

evelyn24
04-27-2011, 11:27 AM
I saw Mrs. Harrington the other day at a local grocery store. I was behind her in the check-out line. I wanted to say something to her...but for some reason I couldn't manage to speak, it was like I had lost my voice. All I could do was stare at the large cuff bracelet she was wearing...the one Morgan was wearing...

Omg that's heartbreaking. :(

Walker
04-27-2011, 07:32 PM
BBM

What was the name of the video? or do you have a link? I tried searching for it and nothing came up! I would love to see it online :)
TIA

"Disappeared S3EP16 Heavy Metal Mystery Part 1"

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8p2xQlYRE"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8p2xQlYRE

All 3 segments are available.

Walker
04-27-2011, 08:57 PM
From the "Heavy Metal Murder" -

Lt. Rader VSP: “Forensically, there is a DNA connection that Morgan Harrington, at some point during her time in Charlottesville, prior to her death, came into contact with a person who has already been in the unknown subject data..DNA database.”


Therefore,
1. Sketch was not merely someone called in to assist in disposal of the body.
2. Sketch came into contact with Morgan in Charlottesville.
3. Morgan was killed in C'ville.

Illustration of timeline:
http://www.nbc29.com/link/414506/map-uva-jpj-area-morgan-harrington-timeline

LadyBug99
04-28-2011, 02:43 PM
From the "Heavy Metal Murder" -

Lt. Rader VSP: “Forensically, there is a DNA connection that Morgan Harrington, at some point during her time in Charlottesville, prior to her death, came into contact with a person who has already been in the unknown subject data..DNA database.”


Therefore,
1. Sketch was not merely someone called in to assist in disposal of the body.
2. Sketch came into contact with Morgan in Charlottesville.
3. Morgan was killed in C'ville.

Illustration of timeline:
http://www.nbc29.com/link/414506/map-uva-jpj-area-morgan-harrington-timeline

Thanks Walker! I hadn't seen this aerial view before. It gives me a much better idea of the layout and space between lots/bridge/etc.

quiqui
05-09-2011, 08:42 PM
http://www.nbc12.com/Global/story.asp?S=14600844

VA Tech is awarding Morgan a posthumous degree next weekend during commencement exercises.

I had a dear friend die a few months before graduation and his parents were so pleased when his college did the same thing. I hope it's just as meaningful for Morgan's parents.

Janeumayer
05-21-2011, 01:33 AM
Disappeared S3EP16 Heavy Metal Mystery Part 2 & 3

http://youtu.be/r9EDy2kdtoQ

http://youtu.be/niEHuBtj5Mc

Beyond Belief
05-27-2011, 11:14 PM
I. D. Investigation Discovery is covering Morgans story right now.

Mountain Mama
06-03-2011, 07:57 PM
It is odd that her ticket would be 'in pieces' in her purse. Many who go to concerts keep their stubs as memorabilia. Was she furious with her friends and left in a huff, tearing up the ticket in a metaphoric way of saying she was done with it.

geojeffrey
06-03-2011, 09:30 PM
MM--your idea makes good sense! It seems like what happened to Morgan has to be tied to the issue huff in some indirect way...

Claudette
06-03-2011, 11:33 PM
It is odd that her ticket would be 'in pieces' in her purse. Many who go to concerts keep their stubs as memorabilia. Was she furious with her friends and left in a huff, tearing up the ticket in a metaphoric way of saying she was done with it.

I've never heard this before, when was this info released?

KAE
06-05-2011, 09:08 AM
It is odd that her ticket would be 'in pieces' in her purse. Many who go to concerts keep their stubs as memorabilia. Was she furious with her friends and left in a huff, tearing up the ticket in a metaphoric way of saying she was done with it.


I've never heard this before, when was this info released?

I don't remember that either.:confused:
Is this something new?

Mountain Mama
06-11-2011, 08:26 PM
After Morgan left JPP at app. 8:20 pm 10/17/09:

1. According to the Hook: Morgan told the ticket taker at JPJ that her ticket was in her pack "in pieces."

2. Per the ID show (which I haven't actually seen): one of the men Morgan met outside the arena asked her if she had a ticket to get back in. She told him, yes.

3. Morgan had enough cash to just buy a new ticket to be readmitted.

4. Per the ID show: Morgan in fact did not have her ticket; a friend had it in his/her possession at that point in time.

5. Morgan's ticket was never recovered by the police.

Could someone verify statements 2 and 4 for me?

Statements 3 and 5 came from source who supposedly has inside info.

Let's assume that all the statements are true. Doesn't it sound as if Morgan was not interested in returning to the concert?

If Morgan's friend had the ticket, wouldn't this person likely deliver it to the police as evidence that Morgan had in fact attended the concert?

That post by Walker (citing 'The Hook') is where I saw the 'ticket in pieces' mentioned first. Guess I should see which article it came from and post it directly.

Mountain Mama
06-11-2011, 08:33 PM
Here is the original Hook article mentioning the 'ticket in pieces'. Great article, filled with info I hadn't heard of. For one, her umbrella was also found in the parking lot. I wonder who has her red camera. If it was 'lost' before she was abducted, it is odd that it never surfaced. Could it be the missing link to unlock this heinous crime?

Check out the article
http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

Walker
06-12-2011, 04:21 PM
That post by Walker (citing 'The Hook') is where I saw the 'ticket in pieces' mentioned first. Guess I should see which article it came from and post it directly.

http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

Quotes from this link:


When she tried to reenter through the main entrance of the Arena, says Cappuzzo, the ticket taker asked for her ticket.

"She said, 'It's in pieces in my purse,'" says Cappuzzo, who says the ticket taker stopped her when it appeared she planned to dump the contents of her purse again.

Note: We do not know with certainty that the ticket was (1.) in pieces, or (2.) in MH's handbag; only that Morgan is quoted as making this statement to the ticket taker.

Walker
06-12-2011, 04:29 PM
From the "Heavy Metal Murder" -

Lt. Rader VSP: “Forensically, there is a DNA connection that Morgan Harrington, at some point during her time in Charlottesville, prior to her death, came into contact with a person who has already been in the unknown subject data..DNA database.”


Therefore,
1. Sketch was not merely someone called in to assist in disposal of the body.
2. Sketch came into contact with Morgan in Charlottesville.
3. Morgan was killed in C'ville.

Illustration of timeline:
http://www.nbc29.com/link/414506/map-uva-jpj-area-morgan-harrington-timeline

Is AF considered part of C'ville?

quiqui
06-12-2011, 04:40 PM
Is AF considered part of C'ville?

My opinion is no. It is certainly close by, but in Virginia cities are separate from the county that surrounds them. AF is in Albemarle County, not in Charlottesville city.

arielilane
06-12-2011, 08:00 PM
The article is from February 2011. I guess it will be awhile for familial DNA results or if this will even be done in Morgan's case?

From the Hook link above:
http://www.readthehook.com/88650/hes-still-here-and-other-revelations-harrington-case

The other DNA test the Harringtons are pressing authorities to run is a familial DNA search, which could help narrow the pool of possible suspects by finding close relatives of the unknown assailant . That search will only work if the perpetrator has an immediate relative-- parent, sibling or child-- who is a convicted felon or has been arrested for a violent felony-- the two ways an individual's DNA would end up in the identified zone of the state databank.

The Virginia Department of Forensic Science has obtained and is currently in the process of validating familial DNA searching software. However, State Police spokesperson Geller says investigators must proceed "very selectively and carefully" with any DNA testing because the evidence available for analysis is limited. DNA is destroyed by the testing process and cannot be retested for different purposes that might arise.

rossva
06-12-2011, 08:32 PM
While AF is not in the city limits of Charlottesville, in my opinion, Rader would most likely include it when referring to Charlottesville.


Is AF considered part of C'ville?

Walker
06-12-2011, 09:39 PM
While AF is not in the city limits of Charlottesville, in my opinion, Rader would most likely include it when referring to Charlottesville.

Thank you for your reply. Therefore, Rader was not excluding the possibility that Morgan was killed at AF or that she first encountered Sketch at AF.

gnomony
07-02-2011, 06:48 PM
http://www.readthehook.com/98505/whatever-happened-10-updated-stories
(see last item in article)

Jessicaleanne1992
07-11-2011, 02:20 AM
EVERY TIME i read this i cry. so so heartbreaking. ugh. it gives me a feeling of angst.

snipped
"I imagine golden hairs from your head woven into nests in that field and the nearby trees; beautifying and strengthening those homes, as you did ours. It gives me comfort to think of those elemental parts of you, Morgan, moving forward, combining in new ways, transforming and nourishing new life in that sacred ground on Anchorage Farm. I am grateful to the land for cradling you; holding you gently as nature dissolved away your tissues and reclaimed the precious molecules of your flesh that men had destroyed and discarded..."

http://findmorgan.com/category/family-blog

Tricia
07-22-2011, 12:23 PM
Morgan Harrington's parents, Dan and Gil, will join us this Sunday on Websleuths Radio. Please listen right here (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2011/07/25/websleuths-radio-and-the-casey-anthony-murder-trial)

Be sure and check out the family's website www.findmorgan.com/

Also joining us will be bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Leonard has all kinds of info about the Casey Anthony case.


Whatever Leonard starts talking about will be our topic :)

This Sunday and every Sunday Websleuths Radio. 8 PM Eastern/5 PM Pacific.

angelanalyzes
07-22-2011, 06:32 PM
Wow, I have followed this case from the beginning but never here at WS, and I click on the thread and suddenly I see an argument about Hindu symbolism in art...I am trying to figure out what's going on but every time I peel back a layer I become more in need of a glossary. What does SS stand for and who is she? Thanks :)
I'll just say something, Morgan Harrington's case really hurt me more than most cases ever do. I guess The Lovely Bones coming out right then played a part. I took a bottle that washed in on the shore and put a candle in it and kept it lit each night for Morgan for a long time. I've shed many tears over her and the words of her family. I'm so glad to see this case still getting attention at least at WS, because it's so frustrating.
I am still at a loss regarding the DNA they recovered on her remains from the rape suspect. I know it couldn't have been DNA from her actual body because she was skeletal by then, so I'm guessing it was on her clothes?
I'm very convinced that the biggest clue in the investigation aside from the DNA is where her body was dumped, absolutely no way did someone just happen to come across that spot, they had to know the general area if not that exact farmland [but I do need to review this thread to see if other information has been put forward to the contrary].

JBounds
07-24-2011, 09:53 PM
I had actually forgotten about this case until websleuths radio brought it back to attention. Sometimes there are ones I forget about because they go cold.

So many mysteries to this case. I hope the killer can be found.

Kimster
07-24-2011, 09:57 PM
Wow, I have followed this case from the beginning but never here at WS, and I click on the thread and suddenly I see an argument about Hindu symbolism in art...I am trying to figure out what's going on but every time I peel back a layer I become more in need of a glossary. What does SS stand for and who is she? Thanks :)
I'll just say something, Morgan Harrington's case really hurt me more than most cases ever do. I guess The Lovely Bones coming out right then played a part. I took a bottle that washed in on the shore and put a candle in it and kept it lit each night for Morgan for a long time. I've shed many tears over her and the words of her family. I'm so glad to see this case still getting attention at least at WS, because it's so frustrating.
I am still at a loss regarding the DNA they recovered on her remains from the rape suspect. I know it couldn't have been DNA from her actual body because she was skeletal by then, so I'm guessing it was on her clothes?
I'm very convinced that the biggest clue in the investigation aside from the DNA is where her body was dumped, absolutely no way did someone just happen to come across that spot, they had to know the general area if not that exact farmland [but I do need to review this thread to see if other information has been put forward to the contrary].

Not sure what SS you are referring to? Perhaps it was a member's post?

Talking to the Harringtons on the show tonight was heartwrenching. I just wanted to bring Morgan back to them alive! :tears:

I'm praying that somehow someone hears them on the show and has the one clue they need to finding Morgan's killer!

Tricia
07-24-2011, 10:08 PM
You have got to listen to Morgan Harrington's parents on Websleuths Radio.

OMG. This is the first time in my radio career that I cried. I had to mute my mic.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2011/07/25/websleuths-radio-and-the-casey-anthony-murder-trial

The Harrington's come on around :35 minutes or a little bit past.

Here is a poem Gill (pronounced "Jill") wrote for Morgan.

Stuck at the big 2 0 - birthday poem to Mogo

Its another birthday and it aint too happy
in fact it feels kinda crappy
see, you'll always be
still twenty.
They tell me you'll be forever young
and I just have to bite my tongue
coz from what I can see
forever young aint all its cracked up to be.
Morgan, you were such a beauty
but now you're no way cutie.
I hate to be the one to tell
Honey, you look like hell.
In two years you've changed a lot.
There was that awkward stage of bones and rot
and now frankly, don't mean to hurt
though forever young - you look old as dirt.
Oh yeah, how dumb
that's exactly what you have become.
Morgan, you're 20 and holding, - your destiny.
Wish instead you were holding me.
241
Mom

vlpate
07-24-2011, 11:07 PM
You have got to listen to Morgan Harrington's parents on Websleuths Radio.

OMG. This is the first time in my radio career that I cried. I had to mute my mic.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2011/07/25/websleuths-radio-and-the-casey-anthony-murder-trial

The Harrington's come on around :35 minutes or a little bit past.

Here is a poem Gill (pronounced "Jill") wrote for Morgan.

Stuck at the big 2 0 - birthday poem to Mogo

Its another birthday and it aint too happy
in fact it feels kinda crappy
see, you'll always be
still twenty.
They tell me you'll be forever young
and I just have to bite my tongue
coz from what I can see
forever young aint all its cracked up to be.
Morgan, you were such a beauty
but now you're no way cutie.
I hate to be the one to tell
Honey, you look like hell.
In two years you've changed a lot.
There was that awkward stage of bones and rot
and now frankly, don't mean to hurt
though forever young - you look old as dirt.
Oh yeah, how dumb
that's exactly what you have become.
Morgan, you're 20 and holding, - your destiny.
Wish instead you were holding me.
241
Mom

I can't imagine how hard writing this poem had to be. God bless this family.

Kimster
07-24-2011, 11:09 PM
I can't imagine how hard writing this poem had to be. God bless this family.

I know it. The show has been over for more than an hour and I still feel very emotional. And to think the perp is still out there breathing our air is more than I can fathom.

vlpate
07-24-2011, 11:10 PM
There's a picture of the necklace here:
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/275685

I'm sure this has been posted before but I could not find it.

Kimster
07-24-2011, 11:14 PM
Happy Birthday Morgan!

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/LavandaDolce/MorganDanaHarringtonAlwaysinOurHear.jpg
http://media.photobucket.com/image/morgan%20harrington/LavandaDolce/MorganDanaHarringtonAlwaysinOurHear.jpg?o=22

HatesSociopaths
07-24-2011, 11:46 PM
Ok so I heard the parents tonight and am taking the advice to channel my Caylee Anthony frustration over onto this case. It's the first I've dug into the case and here are my thoughts on what I've seen so far about it. Please feel free to give input on these points.

The killer has the 2005 sexual assault which a cold hit was made on his DNA. Assault occurred in Fairfax, VA near a grocery store. Sketch made, african-american, likely in his late 30s now.

Body found on Anchorage Farm, lots of speculation he had to know about the farm. Apparently this lead nowhere on follow-up.

Shirt of Morgan's found in Nov 2009 few miles from concert arena. The parents said tonight it is tied to another crime but could not elaborate (?)
Apparently this lead as to possible home area of killer lead nowhere.

Common thread in the two incidents is severe violence against the two women. The woman in 2005 got away as someone was seen nearby and the killer fled.

Where Morgan's body was found, the concert, and the t-shirt are all in a relatively small radius. The two crimes being four years apart, and with the sketch having been made after the first one, I suspect he moved to Charlotesville to not feel so hunted in Fairfax. I would assume records have been checked for African American males in this age range who have moved in just such a fashion in the last few years.

I would also suspect a rap sheet of at least domestic violence, possibly other rapes, prostitute assaults, etc. If I was an investigator on the case I would pass his sketch around to prostitutes, as this sadist will need fixes more often than every few years. My impression is he is a loner type with little in the way of friends and romance, and is unattractive. He thus considered Morgan quite a trophy, kept her necklace and clothing items as a memento, and uses it for stimulation when fantasizing later about the rape.

The ditching of the t-shirt to me is a symbol of a killer who wants to get caught, leaving a clue behind to eventually get caught with. Also, the way it was left behind a month later tells me he perhaps enjoyed the news coverage the case initially got, and wanted to stir up the media again. For a low-life loner like this the fame and attention would have been tantalizing.

More than likely he skipped town, as he did in Fairfax a few years earlier after the sexual assault. Based on his last move, he probably has not traveled far. He is carefully searching for his next victim.

I get the impression that Morgan was in the wrong place at the wrong time, that the killer had not pre-selected her before this date. Morgan, being at a rock concert, appears to have been under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Ecstasy is common at concerts, and would have caused her to have her guard down in getting in a stranger's vehicle.

Hope they find this killer.

Truthful Lies
07-25-2011, 07:39 AM
Something I don't know if I've posted before. The North Garden area is near a somewhat prestigious boarding and day school, The Miller School. It's possible the killer attended and therefor knew the area (to get to 29, one would have to drive through areas of N. Garden). While driving to Miller to get a family member, I thought, "Gosh. The discarded shirt and brazenness of this crime speaks to me of someone who thinks they are entitled and just cocky." Just a thought.

I hope they've checked out that possibility. What a scary thought that where Morgan was found was maybe "just on the way home" for the perp. =P I know it doesn't really fit what we know already (Fairfax DNA), but still.

DEPUTYDAWG
07-25-2011, 08:41 AM
I remember hearing about this case on the news when it happened...never realized she had been found. I'm glad her body was found, so the family at least had her.

I spent hours last night reading the old threads, trying to come up to speed on this mystery. I hope they catch the monster and there is justice for Morgan in the very near future.

Prayers to her parents.

AlwaysShocked
07-25-2011, 09:17 AM
After listening to Morgan's parents last evening - and what wonderful folks they are - I went to the findmorgan website. Gill has blogged throughout this experience and she is a great writer.

It is agonizingly heartbreaking to read her accounts of her and her family's feelings throughout this terrible ordeal. But enlightening and heartwarming to read of their struggles and strengths.

Having gone through the grief of losing a loved one unexpectedly (to illness, not to murder) I could relate to Gill's grief - the little things that pop up during the course of a day that trigger a flood of memories and tears.

Link to sketch of possible perp: http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear

After reading various articles describing Morgan's strange behaviors both inside and outside the arena that night, it seems obvious that she had taken a drug. Police stated there were no indications that anyone drugged her without her knowledge, but "in defference to her parents" would not give further details.

It is my thought that her parents, in addition to wanting her killer caught, would want to tell the full story of what happened that night - as a means to caution other young women against such actions. I am not a "blame the victim' type. But the reality of life is that taking drugs leaves young women even more vulnerable than they already are.

My deepest sympathy to Morgan's family in the loss of their loved one.







Great show, Trish!

Elphaba
07-25-2011, 02:32 PM
I hope LE is cross referencing with other agencies, including Richmond and all the way up the I95 corridor into Baltimore. Something just screams that the perp probably has numerous victims... and the reason more haven't been found is because the perp is possibly using the guise of being a commuter along the likes of Hwy 29 up into the DC/B'more area, as well as the I95 Corridor.

angelanalyzes
07-26-2011, 07:47 AM
Man, Gill really knows how to wretch the tears from a person with her sincerity, I love that woman. Morgan must have been a truly spectacular girl with parents like that.

I just have to say, I hope familial DNA is run because the sketch of that man does not appear to me to be your average African American male. Although many times sketches space eyes incorrectly and tend to make people look more "exotic" than they do in real life, it seems this guy was intentionally drawn with what ends up looking like Veddoid or possible partial Mid-Eastern heritage, if not the most likely case: he is actually Latino or admixed with Latino but also African American, just from the sketch.
The Foods Of All Nations grocery is interesting as it was where Morgan's scent left off, and the Fairfax rape victim was attacked leaving a grocery store late at night. Foods Of All Nations is closed at 8:00pm I believe, but still, just interesting.

angelanalyzes
07-26-2011, 07:50 AM
I also agree that this perp is a habitual offender and probably regularly mixes abduction/rape with murders, he just usually picks lower profile targets and Morgan put herself in a position, sadly, of looking "on the fringe" that night if she was hitchhiking.
No one does that anymore.
Poor thing, poor sweet girl, a night so out of character for her turned out to define her public legacy.

angelanalyzes
07-26-2011, 08:39 AM
I am pretty sure Gill meant that the shirt was linked to a previous crime via the Fairfax DNA, police have never officially announced what item the DNA was found on so she'd have to keep that part quiet but since the DNA itself has been made public it might have slipped her mind when she let it slip. My money is it's on the shirt and he took it with him to wipe ...himself...off and then displayed it as a trophy later when he realized he got himself a victim lots of people cared about and he got off mightily on that media high.

askfornina
07-26-2011, 09:06 AM
that poem was absolutely heart wrenching. i wouldn't have been able to hold it together enough to even say "i don't know what to say", tricia.

i have faith that this horrible crime will be solved. all it takes is one mistake and they will have a name to match with that DNA.

the parents are absolutely wonderful people. i love the way they are handling this tragedy. i just want to give them both a huge hug.

arielilane
07-26-2011, 11:41 PM
REWARD: $150,000


The Harrington family is offering a $100,000 reward for the safe return of their daughter, Morgan Harrington, or information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for Morgan Harrington's disappearance.In addition, the band Metallica is offering an additional $50,000 to the reward bringing it to $150,000 for Morgan's safe return or information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for Morgan's disappearance.
http://findmorgan.com/

arielilane
08-29-2011, 09:35 PM
Bumping - Justice for Morgan. We will not rest.

blondiex420
09-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Nothing new yet?? No POI's? This is just ridiculous. RIP Morgan

ChasingMoxie
10-04-2011, 02:54 PM
Thinking about you today, Morgan.

This case is still very close to my heart.

ChasingMoxie
10-04-2011, 03:57 PM
I've been looking through the VA SO wanted database for potential matches, several of them are listed as not having DNA on file, so they wouldn't come up in a DNA match attempt. Here's what I have so far, none of these guys have DNA on file. Nothing really jumps out, but the photos are all taken at different times and sketches can be difficult to match:

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=34701
http://media.graytvinc.com/images/05+fairfax+assault+suspect1.JPG http://vspimages.vsp.virginia.gov/images/034701-01.jpg

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=26661
http://media.graytvinc.com/images/05+fairfax+assault+suspect1.JPG http://vspimages.vsp.virginia.gov/images/026661-02.jpg

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=16115
http://media.graytvinc.com/images/05+fairfax+assault+suspect1.JPG http://vspimages.vsp.virginia.gov/images/016115-01.jpg

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=27575
http://media.graytvinc.com/images/05+fairfax+assault+suspect1.JPG http://vspimages.vsp.virginia.gov/images/027575-02.jpg

Vabrownid1
10-13-2011, 07:48 PM
I sure wish they could get a break in this case!

CatFancier
10-17-2011, 07:09 PM
The parents of Morgan Harrington thanked police investigators working to catch their daughter's killer. Dan and Gil Harrington spoke at a Monday morning news conference in Charlottesville, Virginia. October 17, 2011 marks the two year anniversary of the abduction and murder of the 20-year-old Virginia Tech student.

http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-morgan-harrington-two-years-later-20111017,0,4217443.story

pittsburghgirl
10-21-2011, 07:30 PM
I was thinking about Morgan today--but I was a few days off the anniversary. May this be the year that her killer is caught.

davehead21
10-21-2011, 11:18 PM
Gil Harrington filed a lawsuit against the company that provided security at JPJ Arena the night that Morgan went missing. I heard this on the radio earlier this week but totally forgot about it until tonight. I was kind of surprised that no one here had posted it yet when I came to look.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/299828

otto
10-21-2011, 11:26 PM
Gil Harrington filed a lawsuit against the company that provided security at JPJ Arena the night that Morgan went missing. I heard this on the radio earlier this week but totally forgot about it until tonight. I was kind of surprised that no one here had posted it yet when I came to look.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/299828

I don't understand the grounds for the lawsuit. There was a rule about not letting people in after they left the concert. Morgan left before the band she wanted to hear. She was described as intoxicated by others near the entrance. The security would be under no obligation to admit someone that was as intoxicated as we heard about Morgan. They would also not be responsible to look after her. Their job is to look after the venue, not intoxicated people trying to be admitted or accosting others near the entrance. Furthermore, she was not abducted on the venue grounds ... she was on or near the bridge crossing the train tracks in the vicinity.

What have we heard about Morgan being injured inside the building, and it was reported earlier that she stepped out to smoke ... but there was a smoking area inside the arena, so the question was more about drugs than smoking ... at the time. If she had an injury inside the arena, was it related to intoxication?

davehead21
10-22-2011, 07:30 AM
I don't understand the grounds for the lawsuit. There was a rule about not letting people in after they left the concert. Morgan left before the band she wanted to hear. She was described as intoxicated by others near the entrance. The security would be under no obligation to admit someone that was as intoxicated as we heard about Morgan. They would also not be responsible to look after her. Their job is to look after the venue, not intoxicated people trying to be admitted or accosting others near the entrance. Furthermore, she was not abducted on the venue grounds ... she was on or near the bridge crossing the train tracks in the vicinity.

What have we heard about Morgan being injured inside the building, and it was reported earlier that she stepped out to smoke ... but there was a smoking area inside the arena, so the question was more about drugs than smoking ... at the time. If she had an injury inside the arena, was it related to intoxication?

I completely agree, Otto. I have been to hundreds of concerts in many states and every venue I have been to had a no re-entry policy. It is common practice of venues. If her mother felt a lawsuit was needed, I'm not sure why she's suing the security company rather than the venue....no re-entry is the venue's rule.

Dymphna
10-28-2011, 07:43 PM
Bumping for Morgan...


arielilane
11-10-2011, 10:55 PM
I hope the Harrington's win big on their lawsuit. The so called "security" at these concerts are a joke and hopefully their win will lead to changes made by these "security" agencies. They should be held accountable for their lack of true security.

Being intoxicated is irrelevant.

rossva
11-26-2011, 01:08 PM
As a felon, his dna would be in the Virginia system.




This Offenders DNA should be tested ASAP against the DNA in the MH case. He is spot on for the composite. Not sure how we forward these things to LE so if anyone can assist, please do! First offense was at 18, making him about 23 for the 2005 offense and approx 27 for this case.

waltzingmatilda
11-26-2011, 02:28 PM
Wow! this guy does look like the composite sketch!!! Compare them side by side and see what ya think!

http://www.readthehook.com/67207/cold-hit-police-connect-morgan-harrington-slaying-fairfax-attack

Call this in SK Hunter! He could have 'fallen thru the cracks' and his DNA wasn't collected OR there just hasn't been a match yet.

Information at above link on providing tips. HTH :)

wm

pomegranate
11-26-2011, 03:25 PM
This Offenders DNA should be tested ASAP against the DNA in the MH case. He is spot on for the composite. Not sure how we forward these things to LE so if anyone can assist, please do! First offense was at 18, making him about 23 for the 2005 offense and approx 27 for this case.

"
McKenzie is listed as a sex offender on the Virginia State Police Web site. He is considered violent, according to the site, and is currently on probation.



Great catch! Here is a link to the original story. The website that was linked up there is rather offensive. (quote snipped by me)

http://articles.dailypress.com/2010-03-03/news/dp-local_sexoffender_0304mar04_1_object-sexual-penetration-assaulting-hampton-city-jail

SK_Hunter
11-27-2011, 11:15 PM
Submitted using the information in the article you provided. Thank you.

Here is his SOR page: http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=12239

All freshly clean shaven. Nice new mask. I tend to lean towards the previous arrest picture of his as being the mask we are looking for. I see the progression being from full (2005 composite), medium size beard, to thin beard (arrest photo), to now clean shaven.

The worst thing anyone can do right now is assume.

Mountain Mama
11-30-2011, 06:32 PM
If its him, then he may have lived in (or had ties to) Fairfax, Va.

SK_Hunter
11-30-2011, 10:15 PM
Great catch! Here is a link to the original story. The website that was linked up there is rather offensive. (quote snipped by me)

http://articles.dailypress.com/2010-03-03/news/dp-local_sexoffender_0304mar04_1_object-sexual-penetration-assaulting-hampton-city-jail

I apologize as that website is very offensive. I must of been so transfixed by the mugshot that I never bothered to scroll down or even look immediately to the left, where the posters info was extremely distasteful as well. I will have to pay attention to this in the future. Thanks again for the "clean" link.

BTW....I received the "we have received your tip" email....tick tock...tick tock

waltzingmatilda
12-02-2011, 10:40 AM
Submitted using the information in the article you provided. Thank you.

Here is his SOR page: http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=12239

All freshly clean shaven. Nice new mask. I tend to lean towards the previous arrest picture of his as being the mask we are looking for. I see the progression being from full (2005 composite), medium size beard, to thin beard (arrest photo), to now clean shaven.

The worst thing anyone can do right now is assume.

Good on you for calling in the tip SK Hunter! I agree about the nice new mask progression. Even tho he is now clean shaven in the 2011 SOR mug, I am still taken aback by the uncanny resemblence to the composite sketch. The mouth and nose are an exact match, IMO.

http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=12239

http://www.readthehook.com/67207/cold-hit-police-connect-morgan-harrington-slaying-fairfax-attack

I really feel this is a viable tip and am glad LE confirmed the tip to you. Surely, LE would rather receive a tip and it lead to nothing, than to need the tip and not receive it. Hope that makes sense.

Now we wait.

wm

SK_Hunter
12-04-2011, 07:16 PM
Sent this in to the VA State Police tip line. Let me know what you think, I have more detailed analysis to provide. Including possible vehicle (hint..Mini Church Shuttle Bus). Attached a side by side picture of the POI and the composite. I have also attached a picture of the Church/Residence with vehicles from Google Maps.

Text of email submitted:
"Hi

Has this RSO been ruled out in the Morgan Harrington case: Anthony Quinn Tucker. Seems to be a very good match for the composite. Further research would indicate he could be working as a Minister at Cluster Pine Holiness Church, which may or may not be his current address (See SOR link for address). I have attached a side by side comparison of the RSO and the known composite. I have also attached a Google map screenshot of the Church with vehicles outside. The white Shuttle like vehicle, parked at the FAR rear, would be of interest to me. Thank you for your time in this matter."

SOR Link: http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=12417

believe09
12-04-2011, 08:42 PM
Sent this in to the VA State Police tip line. Let me know what you think, I have more detailed analysis to provide. Including possible vehicle (hint..Mini Church Shuttle Bus). Attached a side by side picture of the POI and the composite. I have also attached a picture of the Church/Residence with vehicles from Google Maps.

Text of email submitted:
"Hi

Has this RSO been ruled out in the Morgan Harrington case: Anthony Quinn Tucker. Seems to be a very good match for the composite. Further research would indicate he could be working as a Minister at Cluster Pine Holiness Church, which may or may not be his current address (See SOR link for address). I have attached a side by side comparison of the RSO and the known composite. I have also attached a Google map screenshot of the Church with vehicles outside. The white Shuttle like vehicle, parked at the FAR rear, would be of interest to me. Thank you for your time in this matter."

SOR Link: http://sex-offender.vsp.virginia.gov/sor/offenderDetails.html?regId=12417


Was your original offender ruled out SK? If I may say, you dont want to send in too many possibles when a comparison is in the works. LE will start to think it is the mud against the wall thing...

One of the blessings of being at WS I have found is that you can post your pool of suspects and have help ruling them in or out before you submit them. Just my :twocents:.

clarabelle
12-04-2011, 10:06 PM
I don't understand the grounds for the lawsuit. There was a rule about not letting people in after they left the concert. Morgan left before the band she wanted to hear. She was described as intoxicated by others near the entrance. The security would be under no obligation to admit someone that was as intoxicated as we heard about Morgan. They would also not be responsible to look after her. Their job is to look after the venue, not intoxicated people trying to be admitted or accosting others near the entrance. Furthermore, she was not abducted on the venue grounds ... she was on or near the bridge crossing the train tracks in the vicinity.

What have we heard about Morgan being injured inside the building, and it was reported earlier that she stepped out to smoke ... but there was a smoking area inside the arena, so the question was more about drugs than smoking ... at the time. If she had an injury inside the arena, was it related to intoxication?

I completely agree. I know their daughter's death is extremely painful for them but I don't see the point of suing concert security. Morgan was intoxicated and refused offers of help. I hope at some point her parents can accept that Morgan made extremely bad choices that evening that left her in a situation that cost her her life. Laying blame on others for not babysitting an adult will not bring her back.

SK_Hunter
12-04-2011, 11:34 PM
Was your original offender ruled out SK? If I may say, you dont want to send in too many possibles when a comparison is in the works. LE will start to think it is the mud against the wall thing...

One of the blessings of being at WS I have found is that you can post your pool of suspects and have help ruling them in or out before you submit them. Just my :twocents:.

Noted and appreciated. Orthodox, I will not be, but excitable, I will be less. And thou ruling is?

"I have been impressed with the urgency of doing. Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Being willing is not enough; we must do.
Leonardo da Vinci"

deelytful1
12-11-2011, 05:12 PM
I'm watching "disappeared" on the ID channel right now. i remember this case vividly because I'm such a Metallica fan and i could relate to her excitement when the tix came out.
I did NOT know they found her remains!!
I'll continue to watch the documentary and then i'll read up on the case at WS.
RIP Morgan. :rose:
How such a thrilling and wonderful night has to turn into THIS I'll never understand in this case or many others. Evil lurks amongst us always. I wish we could get our teens/20 somethings to realize this! :(

deelytful1
12-11-2011, 05:15 PM
I completely agree. I know their daughter's death is extremely painful for them but I don't see the point of suing concert security. Morgan was intoxicated and refused offers of help. I hope at some point her parents can accept that Morgan made extremely bad choices that evening that left her in a situation that cost her her life. Laying blame on others for not babysitting an adult will not bring her back.

Agreed... I'm sure they will realize one day but for right now they feel the need to lash out at anyone who could have helped their little girl (IMO). She will always be that.. their little girl. If the lawsuit does nothing but make the arena "up" their security for the next missing young intoxicated woman.. it has been successful.

R.U.Kidding!
01-14-2012, 05:00 PM
The Morgan Harrington case was the one that brought me to Web Sleuths. For me the entire circumstances surrounding this case are incomprehensible , IMO.

However I do still follow this case in hopes of some "new" information or an actual press conference update. I have always hoped the Harrington's were privy to answers by LE to every question they may have. We the public are not entitled to that , but they most certainly are. I have often wondered why a private investigator has never been hired in view of the fact Campus Police, Local law enforcement, and Virginia state police seem to be in over their heads, to put it mildly.
The Harrington's Law suit has been questioned by some, believing they are disregarding their daughters alcohol or drug use as a possible contributing factor. I would like to believe they knew their daughter was a normal 20 year old with all the good and bad that age brings with it. It was, after all, a Metallica concert. The fact that there is a "no re-admittance" policy is not the problem as I see it. JPJ Arena brings a lot of money into that community . They have a responsibility to insure that their security is there to protect the public that subsidizes them.

Here is where I see the problem:

SECURITY!
Yes Morgan was a 20 year old who made "choices", and yes they had a No Re-entry policy . That Policy was to ensure the safety of the public in attendance.

Why were there not enough Security cameras?
Why were the ones they did have sub-standard?
Who were their "security" provider and personnel?
......and what, if any, contingency plan was in place for those too inebriated or unruly to re-enter.

I mean, why have security in place that when called upon cannot "secure " protection?

Let's consider the Morgan Harrington Case.

Apparently from the minute Morgan left the Arena , it was not held accountable for anything that happened to her. Acceptable.......but

When she was murdered due to a course of events that began "on the property" of that "SECURE" arena, and that led to her expulsion from that Secure arena, that changes things, IMO.

IF adequate security equipment was in place, cameras would be able to "confirm" her attendance, and perhaps her injury.
IF adequate security camera's were in place we would be able to VERIFY the Venue security personnel during their interaction with Morgan.

Instead we are left with not 1 verifiable picture of Morgan in or around the Arena that night, right?

Instead we are left with "a" security guard and "ticket" takers word that Morgan was unruly, warned about re-entry, and barred from re-entry.
Who's to say HOW she was hurt? Who's to say her murderer was not the Security that banned her from re-entry ,leading to the very vulnerable victim Morgan became?

Morgan could of been strung out on 10 different drugs--but "security" should have been in place to protect her also. She was allowed to walk away into the 40 degree, rainy night, with NO protection from the elements. Don't you think they should have had a place where she could have waited for her friends?? ,......and speaking of her "FRIENDS" where the H--- were they.
Maybe if Security had half a brain they would have suggested paging them and having them bring her car keys, coat, whatever may have helped her during her time out.
I know it was said that she "refused help", really? How do we know that ?
All I am saying is this case was a mess from the beginning , and the Harrington's have every right to know exactly what transpired that night that began at JPJ arena. If legal action against JPJA will allow them full disclosure--Go for it.

Sorry!!:rant: Thanks for listeneing and I will :shutup:

davehead21
01-15-2012, 10:07 AM
Respectfully snipped by me for space--



Apparently from the minute Morgan left the Arena , it was not held accountable for anything that happened to her. Acceptable.......but
When she was murdered due to a course of events that began "on the property" of that "SECURE" arena, and that led to her expulsion from that Secure arena, that changes things, IMO.


Morgan could of been strung out on 10 different drugs--but "security" should have been in place to protect her also. She was allowed to walk away into the 40 degree, rainy night, with NO protection from the elements. Don't you think they should have had a place where she could have waited for her friends?? ,......and speaking of her "FRIENDS" where the H--- were they.
Maybe if Security had half a brain they would have suggested paging them and having them bring her car keys, coat, whatever may have helped her during her time out.


I know it was said that she "refused help", really? How do we know that ?
All I am saying is this case was a mess from the beginning , and the Harrington's have every right to know exactly what transpired that night that began at JPJ arena. If legal action against JPJA will allow them full disclosure--Go for it.

Sorry!!:rant: Thanks for listeneing and I will :shutup:

I have followed this case pretty closely but definitely not as closely as some, so if I am wrong with this, I am sure someone will correct me. I do not think Morgan was ever "expelled" from JPJ. She left the venue on her own, not because she was kicked out.

To be blunt, security is not there to babysit. There is no way that security can take the time to hold every drunk/high person's hand and help them find their friends or their lost wallet or whatever. On any given night, they see hundreds of people who are "out of it," how were they to know that Morgan's story would end so tragically? No reentry is simply a standard practice at ALL concerts-- it says that at the entrances and usually on the ticket.

As for her friends, I really hate to see people saying negative things about them....they are going to live in horror the rest of their lives. From everything we know, this was a super close-knit group who had been friends for quite some time. I know there has been a lot of speculation here as to why at least one of her friends didn't go to wait with her after they found out she couldn't get back into the venue. I have always wondered if perhaps Morgan had a history of separating herself from her friends when they went out. I have a friend who does this (still and we are in our early 30s) and she does not understand why this is dangerous. I am in no way placing blame on Morgan or her friends but I do wonder if being separated was something that was common practice for them. And, again, they weren't there to babysit either.

Morgan's mother is not suing JPJ or the venue's management company, she is suing RMC Events, the company who handles security at JPJ. From my experience, security is enforcing the venue's rules, they do not make up their own. The lawsuit doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the Harringtons simply want solid answers to what happened that night. But they aren't going to get them this way. :twocents:

soothsayer
01-15-2012, 12:13 PM
Respectfully snipped by me for space--
....
To be blunt, security is not there to babysit. There is no way that security can take the time to hold every drunk/high person's hand and help them find their friends or their lost wallet or whatever. On any given night, they see hundreds of people who are "out of it," how were they to know that Morgan's story would end so tragically? No reentry is simply a standard practice at ALL concerts-- it says that at the entrances and usually on the ticket.
....

Morgan's mother is not suing JPJ or the venue's management company, she is suing RMC Events, the company who handles security at JPJ. From my experience, security is enforcing the venue's rules, they do not make up their own. The lawsuit doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the Harringtons simply want solid answers to what happened that night. But they aren't going to get them this way. :twocents:

I find it hard to understand the suit against RMC. I know many people are hopeful that they're doing it to sweat security for answers that for some reason the police couldn't get. That strikes me as wishful thinking. It's more likely that someone -- a lawyer in their community -- advised them that time was running out if they wanted to file against somebody, anybody. And perhaps a blogger with a wild imagination warped their thinking by insisting that someone in security at the event was behind her abduction and death (or a musician or a slave descendent -- lots of wild theories over there).

Mrs. Harrington is hoping to collect $3.5M, but I see a number of obstacles to that -- one being, as you noted, that it's not security's job to babysit adults. And unless RMC employs ticket takers who can see into the future, how can they be responsible for those who leave the premises and make their way to parts unknown where they later meet their demise? But the biggest obstacle is the concept of contributory negligence. Virginia follows a very strict old law that essentially says if the victim's own actions in any way contributed to whatever bad thing happened to them, no one else can be held liable. So the fact that Morgan was inebriated probably negates RMC's liability. And even if a jury finds for Morgan, the Harringtons will win $0.

R.U.Kidding!
01-15-2012, 01:27 PM
To be blunt, security is not there to babysit. There is no way that security can take the time to hold every drunk/high person's hand and help them find their friends or their lost wallet or whatever. On any given night, they see hundreds of people who are "out of it," how were they to know that Morgan's story would end so tragically? No reentry is simply a standard practice at ALL concerts-- it says that at the entrances and usually on the ticket

As for her friends, I really hate to see people saying negative things about them....they are going to live in horror the rest of their lives. From everything we know, this was a super close-knit group who had been friends for quite some time. I know there has been a lot of speculation here as to why at least one of her friends didn't go to wait with her after they found out she couldn't get back into the venue. I have always wondered if perhaps Morgan had a history of separating herself from her friends when they went out. I have a friend who does this (still and we are in our early 30s) and she does not understand why this is dangerous. I am in no way placing blame on Morgan or her friends but I do wonder if being separated was something that was common practice for them. And, again, they weren't there to babysit either.

Morgan's mother is not suing JPJ or the venue's management company, she is suing RMC Events, the company who handles security at JPJ. From my experience, security is enforcing the venue's rules, they do not make up their own. The lawsuit doesn't make sense to me. Maybe the Harringtons simply want solid answers to what happened that night. But they aren't going to get them this way. :twocents:

BBM and respectfully snipped for space:

Thanks Dave, That was the "snap out of it" slap in the face I needed. lol

When this case first began I agreed with everything you just said. It is only now, years later and after much frustration that I find myself wanting some kind of closure for the Harrington's. I believe this suit may bring about some answers that have not been forthcoming.

You are absolutely right JPJA is not being sued it is RMC Events.
My feeling is that RMC is nothing more then the security extension of JPJA, and SECURITY is where I feel the problem began.

You are also correct about Morgan not being ejected by "security" , only warned when she wanted to leave. Agreed, that is what "security " stated.

Her friends, well, there is where I disagree, but I sincerely do hope they will be haunted by their lack of concern for Morgan, (considering they were such a CLOSE group) for the rest of their lives.

JPJA cannot be responsible for every druggie that they must keep out, but it is my belief there should be a contingency plan in place for those situations. They should at least have a "holding area" as an option.

.....and most importantly It is my belief that JPJA IS responsible for the arenas "security protocol"---which should involve adequate Security camera inside and out of their establishment . For me it has always been about the "security". After all wouldn't security be the logical place for someone in distress to turn to--maybe that's what Morgan did, and that was her Only mistake.

I continue to follow this case in hopes of an answer , if only for the Harrington's. Thanks for your input.:twocents:

davehead21
01-15-2012, 01:52 PM
BBM and respectfully snipped for space:

Thanks Dave, That was the "snap out of it" slap in the face I needed. lol

When this case first began I agreed with everything you just said. It is only now, years later and after much frustration that I find myself wanting some kind of closure for the Harrington's. I believe this suit may bring about some answers that have not been forthcoming.

You are absolutely right JPJA is not being sued it is RMC Events.
My feeling is that RMC is nothing more then the security extension of JPJA, and SECURITY is where I feel the problem began.

You are also correct about Morgan not being ejected by "security" , only warned when she wanted to leave. Agreed, that is what "security " stated.

Her friends, well, there is where I disagree, but I sincerely do hope they will be haunted by their lack of concern for Morgan, (considering they were such a CLOSE group) for the rest of their lives.

JPJA cannot be responsible for every druggie that they must keep out, but it is my belief there should be a contingency plan in place for those situations. They should at least have a "holding area" as an option.

.....and most importantly It is my belief that JPJA IS responsible for the arenas "security protocol"---which should involve adequate Security camera inside and out of their establishment . For me it has always been about the "security". After all wouldn't security be the logical place for someone in distress to turn to--maybe that's what Morgan did, and that was her Only mistake.

I continue to follow this case in hopes of an answer , if only for the Harrington's. Thanks for your input.:twocents:

I hope you're right in saying that the suit will bring some answers for the Harringtons. And don't get me wrong, I feel for them, I truly do. I also have a lot of respect for them with a lot of things they have done for Morgan. I think they seem like truly lovely people.

I would really like to see the Harringtons lobby for some sort of a law that says venues must provide a "safe place" for a person who has a valid ticket to an event (concert, game, etc.) who has found themselves outside of the venue. In an arena like JPJ or at a stadium, it could be an empty office-- just someplace!!

Still_Seek_Answers
01-15-2012, 03:31 PM
When Morgans body was located, and the memorial was held, Morgans mom commented, and this may not be word for word, but she said there was a feeling of comfort in bringing her daughter home.....as a family member of a missing person I can understand very well what she meant. Nothing you can find out is worse than the things you imagine in your mind. I am not at all certain that the lawsuit, is really so much about money, IMO...the lawsuit is more about raising awareness, and attempting to change what IMO is a stupid rule....I would think keeping people safe would be more important than the cost of a few people maybe making it into the concert without paying.....If she had been allowed to re-enter, then most probably she would still be alive....IMO...that is what angers her parents the most, cause surely Morgans life was way more valuable, than the price of a concert ticket, and I feel that is what the true purpose of the lawsuit is. I could be way off base.......

2sharpe2
01-15-2012, 06:48 PM
Hi Everone..Been a lurker here for quite awhile.. Been following this case from the beginning..But just wanted you all to know I read an interesting article from Blink at ************.com she has written several times on this case check it out..They have arrested a reserve deputy, former police officer for the University of Virginia for rape..Could he have something to do with this case?

R.U.Kidding!
01-15-2012, 06:48 PM
I find it hard to understand the suit against RMC. I know many people are hopeful that they're doing it to sweat security for answers that for some reason the police couldn't get. That strikes me as wishful thinking. It's more likely that someone -- a lawyer in their community -- advised them that time was running out if they wanted to file against somebody, anybody. And perhaps a blogger with a wild imagination warped their thinking by insisting that someone in security at the event was behind her abduction and death (or a musician or a slave descendent -- lots of wild theories over there).

Mrs. Harrington is hoping to collect $3.5M, but I see a number of obstacles to that -- one being, as you noted, that it's not security's job to babysit adults. And unless RMC employs ticket takers who can see into the future, how can they be responsible for those who leave the premises and make their way to parts unknown where they later meet their demise? But the biggest obstacle is the concept of contributory negligence. Virginia follows a very strict old law that essentially says if the victim's own actions in any way contributed to whatever bad thing happened to them, no one else can be held liable. So the fact that Morgan was inebriated probably negates RMC's liability. And even if a jury finds for Morgan, the Harringtons will win $0.

Hi Soothsayer,

Yes there are some very strange theories out there, but the possibility of someone associated with "Security" being involved does not seem like one of them. Consider this: Without security cameras---anything could be likely--are we to believe RMC because they are the "Security Specialists"? That would be very convenient for them. Who monitors security? The bolded statement seems a bit harsh.God knows the Harrington's have every right to nail someone , anyone to the wall if it is proven they held back important information.

I am not accusing Security of murdering Morgan Harrington. I also do not expect RMC or JPJA to be held accountable for "babysitting adults" once they have left their premises. Problem with that is this question " was the outcome of Morgans interaction with RMC or JPJA a contributing factor to the events of that night"? For instance Morgan sustained an injury while in JPJA arena, do we know how that happened and if that injury was a contributing factor to her disorientation, leading her to exit the premises? If she fell and it was due to negligence on the part of the arena, I believe a lawsuit would be in order.

soothsayer
01-15-2012, 09:50 PM
The law suit is interesting. It revolves around Morgan's chin scrape and RMC's failure to respond to it. And it alleges that because RMC didn't let her back in, she was left alone and isolated outside the arena where she was subsequently abducted and murdered by an unknown individual. "As a proximate result of this breach of duty by the defendant, the plaintiff's decedent suffered a horrible death."

But was she alone and isolated? She had a phone, but didn't try to call anyone. Did RMC force her away from the relative safety of the arena entrances, or did she take it upon herself to leave the grounds to hitch a ride with a stranger? Is it RMC's fault that she ended up dead after she left the arena and the grounds, when we have no idea what chain of events led to her death? Where is the suit against the person or persons who sold/gave her liquor and/or drugs -- which probably led to both her chin injury and her poor decision to hitch hike?

otto
01-15-2012, 10:05 PM
The law suit is interesting. It revolves around Morgan's chin scrape and RMC's failure to respond to it. And it alleges that because RMC didn't let her back in, she was left alone and isolated outside the arena where she was subsequently abducted and murdered by an unknown individual. "As a proximate result of this breach of duty by the defendant, the plaintiff's decedent suffered a horrible death."

But was she alone and isolated? She had a phone, but didn't try to call anyone. Did RMC force her away from the relative safety of the arena entrances, or did she take it upon herself to leave the grounds to hitch a ride with a stranger? Is it RMC's fault that she ended up dead after she left the arena and the grounds, when we have no idea what chain of events led to her death? Where is the suit against the person or persons who sold/gave her liquor and/or drugs -- which probably led to both her chin injury and her poor decision to hitch hike?

My understanding is that Morgan chose to leave the arena to smoke even though there was a smoking area inside the arena. After she was outside, she was not allowed back in. That was a known rule. Since she was not allowed back in, she left the arena. After that, she may have been hitchhiking, which ultimately resulted in her murder. No one but the murderer is responsible for what happen to her at the end of the night. No one but Morgan is responsible for her leaving the arena.

R.U.Kidding!
01-15-2012, 10:54 PM
:twocents:
My understanding is that Morgan chose to leave the arena to smoke even though there was a smoking area inside the arena. After she was outside, she was not allowed back in. That was a known rule. Since she was not allowed back in, she left the arena. After that, she may have been hitchhiking, which ultimately resulted in her murder. No one but the murderer is responsible for what happen to her at the end of the night. No one but Morgan is responsible for her leaving the arena.

otto,

I was not aware she left to smoke. I heard her friend told her to try and get back in through the "smoking area". I do not think we know why she left.

You are absolutely right, the killer is the only one responsible for her death.
We do not know she was taken "off property". Could have been kidnapped from the parking lot where they found her handbag, we just don't have enough information . Her friends, and anyone else who claims to have seen her, have never come forward to answer questions.

I would think filing this lawsuit will expose some things we did not know about.....well we can only hope.:twocents:

otto
01-15-2012, 11:09 PM
:twocents:

otto,

I was not aware she left to smoke. I heard her friend told her to try and get back in through the "smoking area". I do not think we know why she left.

You are absolutely right, the killer is the only one responsible for her death.
We do not know she was taken "off property". Could have been kidnapped from the parking lot where they found her handbag, we just don't have enough information . Her friends, and anyone else who claims to have seen her, have never come forward to answer questions.

I would think filing this lawsuit will expose some things we did not know about.....well we can only hope.:twocents:

"Police say she exited the arena to have a smoke, but was not allowed to return"

http://www.examiner.com/crime-media-in-national/morgan-harrington-last-seen-on-bridge

soothsayer
01-15-2012, 11:12 PM
R.U.Kidding, independent witnesses placed her on the bridge, and a tracking dog confirmed. Those dogs aren't fooled by doubling back on one's own trail, so it seems more likely that she disappeared from the bridge (where she was last seen and last detected) than from the parking lot (where her purse was found).

soothsayer
01-15-2012, 11:15 PM
otto, there was alot of speculation (and loosey goosey reporting) early on as to why she left the arena -- to smoke, to use the bathroom, etc. In the end, no one seems to know exactly why she left. Perhaps we'll learn what excuse(s) she gave the guards for leaving, but even then it's probably going to be tenuous.

soothsayer
01-15-2012, 11:20 PM
The civil suit filing states that Morgan left the arena "for reasons currently unclear." So there you have it.

R.U.Kidding!
01-16-2012, 09:54 AM
The civil suit filing states that Morgan left the arena "for reasons currently unclear." So there you have it.

Soothsayer,

WOW---Would love to read that civil suit---could you point me in the right direction for that?
Much appreciated---would help me with the facts!

TIA

R.U.Kidding!
01-16-2012, 10:21 AM
Great catch! Here is a link to the original story. The website that was linked up there is rather offensive. (quote snipped by me)

http://articles.dailypress.com/2010-03-03/news/dp-local_sexoffender_0304mar04_1_object-sexual-penetration-assaulting-hampton-city-jail

Hi Pomegranate,

Just been reading this thread to catch up with this case:waitasec: and saw the POI you were lead to on this website.

Yikes! If these are the types of men that are being suggested as a suspect I am going to go out on the proverbial limb and say......NO WAY!
That is why I question the "hitchhiking". The only way she MIGHT is if she thought he was "security". Now he may have forced her in, but in a 5 minute window seems unlikely don't you think?
The witness statement( really paraphrased) "9:30 on bridge,approx 9:35 gone" In a five minute window? This must have been the first car to stop--seems to me she still had some choices, why go with this guy?

soothsayer
01-16-2012, 11:56 AM
R.U.Kidding, you have to order it by mail from the clerk of the court. It's a brief (pardon the pun) 4 pages that will answer absolutely zero questions. In fact, it doesn't say much more than the pertinent points I noted. That she went to a concert on Oct. 17, that RMC is responsible for security, that she went to the bathroom and somehow injured her chin, and that unknown people reported it to security but they didn't respond. And that she left the arena for reasons currently unclear and tried to get back in, that the guards didn't let her back in nor did they report her injury or her attempts to get back in (report to whom, it doesn't say). And then, as a result, she was left isolated and alone (with a phone and a lot full of people she interacted with, but the suit doesn't say that) and at some point, somewhere, was abducted and murdered (was she?), and that RMC should thus pay $3.5M.

Ok, further they say that they should have known she was in need of assistance and that someone who looked like her had suffered an injury. And that regardless of her injuries, they should have let her back into the arena (despite the policy, but it doesn't add that bit). And because they didn't, she suffered a horrible death.

Now, others have raised great points about this. What if she had left and bought a winning lottery ticket by requesting a quick pick at the exactly right moment; would RMC be able to claim part of her winnings by saying she wouldn't have been in the position to win it had it not been for their enforcement of JPJ's policy?

It could also be a problem (for determining liability) that her time of death is not known. I mean, is there a difference --liability-wise -- between her being abducted from JPJ premises, being abducted away from JPJ premises, or voluntarily catching a ride to a party or residence where she hung out and had a good time for 2 hours, 4 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours, a full week, and THEN met her untimely demise? Is it still RMC's fault if she died a week after she left the show? A day? An hour? Where does their liability begin and end?

R.U.Kidding!
01-16-2012, 01:06 PM
R.U.Kidding, you have to order it by mail from the clerk of the court. It's a brief (pardon the pun) 4 pages that will answer absolutely zero questions. In fact, it doesn't say much more than the pertinent points I noted. That she went to a concert on Oct. 17, that RMC is responsible for security, that she went to the bathroom and somehow injured her chin, and that unknown people reported it to security but they didn't respond. And that she left the arena for reasons currently unclear and tried to get back in, that the guards didn't let her back in nor did they report her injury or her attempts to get back in (report to whom, it doesn't say). And then, as a result, she was left isolated and alone (with a phone and a lot full of people she interacted with, but the suit doesn't say that) and at some point, somewhere, was abducted and murdered (was she?), and that RMC should thus pay $3.5M.

Ok, further they say that they should have known she was in need of assistance and that someone who looked like her had suffered an injury. And that regardless of her injuries, they should have let her back into the arena (despite the policy, but it doesn't add that bit). And because they didn't, she suffered a horrible death.

Now, others have raised great points about this. What if she had left and bought a winning lottery ticket by requesting a quick pick at the exactly right moment; would RMC be able to claim part of her winnings by saying she wouldn't have been in the position to win it had it not been for their enforcement of JPJ's policy?

It could also be a problem (for determining liability) that her time of death is not known. I mean, is there a difference --liability-wise -- between her being abducted from JPJ premises, being abducted away from JPJ premises, or voluntarily catching a ride to a party or residence where she hung out and had a good time for 2 hours, 4 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours, a full week, and THEN met her untimely demise? Is it still RMC's fault if she died a week after she left the show? A day? An hour? Where does their liability begin and end?

Well I certainly appreciate you saving me the time and money of securing this report, Thanks.I see the points you are making, and "liability" is the question?

soothsayer
01-16-2012, 02:00 PM
I was hoping to read clues in the civil suit to see i they were suggesting anything nefarious about the security cameras or anything else, but they don't mention them at all. It really seems pretty plainly to say, "Hey, if you had saved our daughter (from herself), she'd be alive today." After all, their org is called "Help Save the Next Girl." They're hurting because no one saved Morgan. They're upset that RMC didn't save Morgan -- even though the events that led to her death seem to have taken place away from the venue.

BUT...many things could have saved Morgan. Had the friends acted differently, she'd be alive. Had there not been drinking/drugging, she'd be alive. If her cellphone had been in better shape (not prone to losing is battery as her dad has noted it was), she might be alive. Had her folks not bought her tickets, she'd be alive. RMC was kind of the last official body that had a chance to influence the outcome, but was it their role to do so? Obviously they didn't know she was about to go out and meet up with a psycho, if that's what happened.

They do know she was warned that if she left she couldn't reenter, and that she left despite that warning, then wanted back in. At that point, she's a walking liability to RMC. What if she came back in and got hurt? What if she hurt someone else -- falling off a balcony onto them? What if she managed to OD on something in the arena? What if she went back in, was still in a spat with her friends, and stormed out again -- or had a change of heart and turned right around and left right away? Letting her back in wouldn't have guaranteed that she was going to be ok that night, and might not have changed the outcome at all.

I know folks think the arena should be made to set up a Morgan Harrington memorial time out area for drunks who leave and want back in. Imagine the real liability for JPJ in trying to keep drunks in a drunk tank together where they might fight, get hurt, drop dead, be disruptive, etc. Plus, can you even legally detain people who wish to leave? How do we know Morgan wouldn't have flatly refused such an option. And...how many people who leave concerts and are denied reentry end up dead? It has to be extremely rare.

R.U.Kidding!
01-16-2012, 07:02 PM
I was hoping to read clues in the civil suit to see i they were suggesting anything nefarious about the security cameras or anything else, but they don't mention them at all. It really seems pretty plainly to say, "Hey, if you had saved our daughter (from herself), she'd be alive today." After all, their org is called "Help Save the Next Girl." They're hurting because no one saved Morgan. They're upset that RMC didn't save Morgan -- even though the events that led to her death seem to have taken place away from the venue.

BUT...many things could have saved Morgan. Had the friends acted differently, she'd be alive. Had there not been drinking/drugging, she'd be alive. If her cellphone had been in better shape (not prone to losing is battery as her dad has noted it was), she might be alive. Had her folks not bought her tickets, she'd be alive. RMC was kind of the last official body that had a chance to influence the outcome, but was it their role to do so? Obviously they didn't know she was about to go out and meet up with a psycho, if that's what happened.

They do know she was warned that if she left she couldn't reenter, and that she left despite that warning, then wanted back in. At that point, she's a walking liability to RMC. What if she came back in and got hurt? What if she hurt someone else -- falling off a balcony onto them? What if she managed to OD on something in the arena? What if she went back in, was still in a spat with her friends, and stormed out again -- or had a change of heart and turned right around and left right away? Letting her back in wouldn't have guaranteed that she was going to be ok that night, and might not have changed the outcome at all.

I know folks think the arena should be made to set up a Morgan Harrington memorial time out area for drunks who leave and want back in. Imagine the real liability for JPJ in trying to keep drunks in a drunk tank together where they might fight, get hurt, drop dead, be disruptive, etc. Plus, can you even legally detain people who wish to leave? How do we know Morgan wouldn't have flatly refused such an option. And...how many people who leave concerts and are denied reentry end up dead? It has to be extremely rare.

Sadly it would only take ONE....and one is too many.

R.U.Kidding!
01-16-2012, 07:16 PM
Soothsayer,

I guess the civil suit is open to interpretation. The Harrington's do not seem that unreasonable to actually think it was any ONE action that caused their daughter's death. It was a "perfect storm" of unfortunate incidents and choices that led to the ultimate person responsible for her death, and that is her killer.
You could drive yourself crazy with the "what if's" . It just is what it is ---easy coming from me---I tend to be a "fatalist". Sometimes that is the only way to make sense out of the senseless. IMOO

soothsayer
01-17-2012, 10:19 AM
R U Kidding, yeah, it's hard to know how to read the civil suit. Mrs. H did say in an early Hook interview that it might be their only shot at a trial. And that the $3.5M would be useful in their awareness efforts and other charitable good works. But as I've said, that pesky contributory negligence thing VA has is going to thwart their ability to collect. If they're after a policy change (about no reentry -- common among many large venues) then I wonder why they wouldn't go after JPJA instead of RMC.

soothsayer
01-17-2012, 11:47 AM
It would be interesting to know the origins of the 'no reentry' policies that are so common these days. I imagine they were in response to bad things that happened when people were allowed to come and go as they please -- in which case you have to wonder which policy protects more people. The greater good and all that.

davehead21
01-17-2012, 07:45 PM
It would be interesting to know the origins of the 'no reentry' policies that are so common these days. I imagine they were in response to bad things that happened when people were allowed to come and go as they please -- in which case you have to wonder which policy protects more people. The greater good and all that.

It's about money. Let's say 8 people decide to go to a show, their plan is to buy 5 tickets and split the cost of 5 tickets between the 8 of them. When they get there, only 5 of them go inside the venue. A little bit later, 1 person goes outside with tickets for the other 3 waiting.

Even if this were not an issue and people were allowed to reenter a show, what exactly are they doing when they leave? Likely drinking their own beer/alcohol. Which means that the venue loses out on a ton of money.

It's all about the money. :twocents:

soothsayer
01-17-2012, 08:53 PM
Ah, the greater greed! That makes good sense. A lot of people theorize it was a response to 9/11, but I suspect you're on to something -- how will you make people buy a $13 beer and an $8 hot dog if they have the option of going outside to eat and drink for free at their car?

quiqui
01-17-2012, 09:21 PM
Morgan's case is what brought me to websleuths as well. I think of her often and hope that some of these lingering questions are answered soon.

I posted (gosh probably almost 2 years ago now) that I attended an event at the JPJA about 4-5 months after Morgan disappeared where the MC running the show told everyone in the audience that we could go outside for some fresh air during intermission. So is the no re-entry a rule only applied to some shows? Possibly.

There was also some discussion on here about whether or not signs are/were posted in the arena that indicate re-entry is not allowed. I didn't notice any during the two times I've been to JPJA in the last few years (though this doesn't mean they weren't/aren't there).

I do hope the lawsuit can answer some questions for her family.
:heartbeat:

davehead21
01-18-2012, 01:27 PM
Morgan's case is what brought me to websleuths as well. I think of her often and hope that some of these lingering questions are answered soon.

I posted (gosh probably almost 2 years ago now) that I attended an event at the JPJA about 4-5 months after Morgan disappeared where the MC running the show told everyone in the audience that we could go outside for some fresh air during intermission. So is the no re-entry a rule only applied to some shows? Possibly.

There was also some discussion on here about whether or not signs are/were posted in the arena that indicate re-entry is not allowed. I didn't notice any during the two times I've been to JPJA in the last few years (though this doesn't mean they weren't/aren't there).

I do hope the lawsuit can answer some questions for her family.
:heartbeat:

What kind of an event did you attend at JPJ when you were allowed to leave and reenter?

MsFacetious
01-18-2012, 04:41 PM
I always wondered why they didn't just stamp their hands... or do something like that?

When we go to something like a musical, they will often stamp your hand. Clubs do the same thing sometimes.
If they just stamped the hands of people as they came in, then Morgan could have gotten back in even if she forgot her ticket.

Would their policy have applied if it had been a 15 year old girl? A 12 year old girl? Where is the line drawn?
I think stamping as you come through the door is likely the best way to do it. You can't misplace the stamp.

davehead21
01-18-2012, 06:22 PM
I always wondered why they didn't just stamp their hands... or do something like that?

When we go to something like a musical, they will often stamp your hand. Clubs do the same thing sometimes.
If they just stamped the hands of people as they came in, then Morgan could have gotten back in even if she forgot her ticket.

Would their policy have applied if it had been a 15 year old girl? A 12 year old girl? Where is the line drawn?
I think stamping as you come through the door is likely the best way to do it. You can't misplace the stamp.

Nope, they can wash off.

quiqui
01-18-2012, 08:33 PM
What kind of an event did you attend at JPJ when you were allowed to leave and reenter?

It was a charity type of concert with a variety of bands. Though, most likely, a vastly different environment than a Metallica concert I was still surprised. Prior to this I assumed "no re-entry" was a JPJA policy...consistent across events. I did not leave to test the issue, so I don't know how it would have been handled.

MsFacetious
01-19-2012, 02:25 AM
Nope, they can wash off.

I am obsessive compulsive about washing my hands... they are often cracked and bleeding.
I have never had a stamp wash off while I was still at an event.

But alright... stamp up on the forearm. Most people don't wash those while they are at a concert.

davehead21
01-19-2012, 09:43 AM
I am obsessive compulsive about washing my hands... they are often cracked and bleeding.
I have never had a stamp wash off while I was still at an event.

But alright... stamp up on the forearm. Most people don't wash those while they are at a concert.

I have had stamps wash off at events. People can claim that they washed their forearm because they got something sticky on it. There are so many excuses people can come up with that makes stamping a part of a person's body not an option with the concert-going crowd. :twocents:

soothsayer
01-19-2012, 01:12 PM
"No re-entry" policies are not really that uncommon. For instance, most people would never even think of leaving a movie theater and coming back in again -- we're just used to the concept that you can't (generally) do that. And again, most people who are denied re-entry are not murdered shortly thereafter (and to be honest -- we really don't know when or how her death occurred). What happened to Morgan after she left the venue --- and as evidence suggests, the grounds -- is such a mercifully rare fluke, would it be worth it to require a venue to buy hand stamps and special inks and change their procedures just in case such an unlikely happenstance happened again? It seems absurd. AND...there's no way to be sure that had they let her back in, she wouldn't have just left again.

Maybe have the guards say, "If you leave, you know you can't come back in again," and add, "and if you leave....don't hitch hike. It's dangerous."

R.U.Kidding!
01-19-2012, 02:30 PM
"No re-entry" policies are not really that uncommon. For instance, most people would never even think of leaving a movie theater and coming back in again -- we're just used to the concept that you can't (generally) do that. And again, most people who are denied re-entry are not murdered shortly thereafter (and to be honest -- we really don't know when or how her death occurred). What happened to Morgan after she left the venue --- and as evidence suggests, the grounds -- is such a mercifully rare fluke, would it be worth it to require a venue to buy hand stamps and special inks and change their procedures just in case such an unlikely happenstance happened again? It seems absurd. AND...there's no way to be sure that had they let her back in, she wouldn't have just left again.

Maybe have the guards say, "If you leave, you know you can't come back in again," and add, "and if you leave....don't hitch hike. It's dangerous."

....and even that wouldn't stop someone....but for liability purposes some sort of written and posted warning should be used. Actually I thought it was printed on the ticket?
Also don't they at least tear the ticket in half, like movie theaters? Would seem like that would solve a lot of problems, at least you still have the other half to prove you paid, right?

So why was Morgan starting to look for her ripped up ticket in her purse. Were they going to allow her back in if she showed a ticket?

soothsayer
01-19-2012, 02:42 PM
The venue DOES have the no-readmittance policy posted on their signs. Permanent signs on the building, if memory serves. Gil is famously posing next to one in the Hook article that talks about the civil suit. (Oct 19, 2011, maybe?). I've seen people post pics of their tix and they didn't say no readmittance -- at least on the front. There's usually a bunch of fine print on the back though. And the guards do verbally warn people who are leaving that they can't come back in, and they say they warned Morgan and she acknowledged what they said.

They don't rip your ticket these days -- they scan the barcode to ensure it can only be used once, and leave your ticket with you as a memento and to get through the next levels of security to get to your seat. So even if she had her ticket, it wouldn't have helped. She could have bought a new one, though, and unless she was behaving really badly, they would have let her in. I think I've read that they DID advise her that she'd need to buy a new ticket. That part will come out in the suit, if nothing else, though it's neither here nor there. The venue has a policy; RMC enforced it.

soothsayer
01-19-2012, 02:52 PM
From the Hook: http://www.readthehook.com/files/imagecache/max_viewable/images/field_images/news-harrington-newjpjsign-web.jpg


Photo of Gil with JPJA sign about the venue's right to refuse or prevent re-entry.

Amster
01-19-2012, 03:02 PM
Have her really close friends ever said what drug or alcohol Morgan had taken? Have any of them explained why not one of them went to help her? Were all of them under the influence of something? I know the friends are considered off limits for criticism by most....why?

R.U.Kidding!
01-19-2012, 05:12 PM
Have her really close friends ever said what drug or alcohol Morgan had taken? Have any of them explained why not one of them went to help her? Were all of them under the influence of something? I know the friends are considered off limits for criticism by most....why?

HI Amster,

Well don't get me started on her "friends", I will be barred for life here, LOL!

I will say this, I do not think they have spoken out in public, and the Harrington's have asked that they be left alone. One would hope that they have spoken to LE extensively about that night. There were some very "disrespectful" pics on the web of the "friends" at a Halloween party, and certain statements like (paraphrased) "we would never have left if we knew"

By the way--adorable kitty--Cat person, here.:cat:

davehead21
01-19-2012, 05:21 PM
....and even that wouldn't stop someone....but for liability purposes some sort of written and posted warning should be used. Actually I thought it was printed on the ticket?
Also don't they at least tear the ticket in half, like movie theaters? Would seem like that would solve a lot of problems, at least you still have the other half to prove you paid, right?

So why was Morgan starting to look for her ripped up ticket in her purse. Were they going to allow her back in if she showed a ticket?

They stopped ripping part of the tickets off quite a few years back. They now have these ticket guns that scan the barcode on the ticket. Kind of like a price scanner thing that you see in Walmart, etc.

Like soothsayer said, no re-entry policies are the norm. It's not going to change, nor should it change because a few adults get too drunk or too drugged up to understand that they need to stay inside the venue. And this is not said in a judging way, in my younger years I did a lot of drinking before/during/after concerts. The policies are there for a reason, like I said earlier, mostly money. I would also venture to guess venues also do not want to be liable for someone going out to their car and doing a massive amount of drugs, then having a heart attack inside the venue or becoming physically aggressive toward other concert-goers.

I really don't mean for that to sound harsh, nor is it directed at you, R.U.Kidding!, I was just answering your question about the tickets. No re-entry policies have been around ever since I started going to concerts and it's a pretty well-known fact. It's not some secret rule that is kept from concert-goers, it's well stated at entrances and even sometimes on tickets.

R.U.Kidding!
01-19-2012, 05:25 PM
From the Hook: http://www.readthehook.com/files/imagecache/max_viewable/images/field_images/news-harrington-newjpjsign-web.jpg


Photo of Gil with JPJA sign about the venue's right to refuse or prevent re-entry.

Thanks for that link.

You seem to know a lot about this case, so let me ask you a few questions, if you don't mind?

1-Have they ever found her red camera or necklace?
2-Where was the DNA taken from--T shirt or body?
3- Has it ever been confirmed that her bones were "shattered" , or was that a figure of speech Gil used in her musings?
4- Have they ever confirmed the siting of Morgan, coming out of a "room",
by the women delivering newspaper?
5- ..and were the basketball players the only group of men she interacted with or was there also another group before them?

6--did LE ever disclose the place Morgen asked those BB players to take her?

TIA, Soothsayer

R.U.Kidding!
01-19-2012, 05:43 PM
They stopped ripping part of the tickets off quite a few years back. They now have these ticket guns that scan the barcode on the ticket. Kind of like a price scanner thing that you see in Walmart, etc.

Like soothsayer said, no re-entry policies are the norm. It's not going to change, nor should it change because a few adults get too drunk or too drugged up to understand that they need to stay inside the venue. And this is not said in a judging way, in my younger years I did a lot of drinking before/during/after concerts. The policies are there for a reason, like I said earlier, mostly money. I would also venture to guess venues also do not want to be liable for someone going out to their car and doing a massive amount of drugs, then having a heart attack inside the venue or becoming physically aggressive toward other concert-goers.

I really don't mean for that to sound harsh, nor is it directed at you, R.U.Kidding!, I was just answering your question about the tickets. No re-entry policies have been around ever since I started going to concerts and it's a pretty well-known fact. It's not some secret rule that is kept from concert-goers, it's well stated at entrances and even sometimes on tickets.

Dave ,
Barcodded tickets??? who knew? guess I am showing my decrepit age. Like you I also did my share of concerts, drinking, smoking, but It was part of the "Woodstock" generation.LOL!

You are not being harsh--it is what it is. Heavy Metal brings it's own problems. I agree 100%, policies are in place for a reason. My only concern is without "adequate" security cameras to back-up policy, how does one go about insuring Security does not abuse their authority? Like how do we know the statements made by security were in fact the truth? That is what I am hoping this civil suit will clear up any questions left unanswered.:twocents:

....and ya gotta admit there are an abundance of those,eh?

Thanks

soothsayer
01-19-2012, 05:47 PM
Well, I'm not by any means an authority, but I play one on the internet. :crazy: So I'll take shot, and others can chime in.

1-Have they ever found her red camera or necklace? NO, or at least not as far as we have been told.
2-Where was the DNA taken from--T shirt or body? Police have not said directly; smart money says body, and the timing between the discovery of the body and the revelation that dna was connected to a case in CODIS seems to fit (6 months, which is what folks were expecting in terms of getting back dna results), but who knows.
3- Has it ever been confirmed that her bones were "shattered" , or was that a figure of speech Gil used in her musings? Has never been confirmed.
4- Have they ever confirmed the siting of Morgan, coming out of a "room",
by the women delivering newspaper? No, that sighting has never been confirmed, and does not figure in the official police timeline.
5- ..and were the basketball players the only group of men she interacted with or was there also another group before them? Reporting in the Hook seemed to indicate that the groups of students she interacted with in the lot all turned out to be basketball players. But...who knows if they got that right.

6--did LE ever disclose the place Morgen asked those BB players to take her? They definitely have not revealed that.

soothsayer
01-19-2012, 06:05 PM
RU Kidding, I dunno, is it even possible to overstep one's authority by enforcing a policy one has the right to enforce?

Here's another question. What if RMC had put a band aid on her chin, had let her come back in after she left, only to have her leave the arena again of her own free will, walk off the property, and come to the same untimely end? Would the Harringtons still sue security?

R.U.Kidding!
01-19-2012, 06:41 PM
RU Kidding, I dunno, is it even possible to overstep one's authority by enforcing a policy one has the right to enforce?

Here's another question. What if RMC had put a band aid on her chin, had let her come back in after she left, only to have her leave the arena again of her own free will, walk off the property, and come to the same untimely end? Would the Harringtons still sue security?

Not overstep ones authority....".abuse" ones authority.


.....and Thanks for clearing up those questions.I knew you could do it. LOL

Actually I am just so pleased Morgan's case is being discussed again. If the civil suit has brought renewed awareness, it's a good thing.

soothsayer
01-19-2012, 08:21 PM
Not overstep ones authority....".abuse" ones authority.



What would that look like? A desperate Morgan begging to be let back in and a sadistic guard laughing and denying her? Or....? What's your thinking?

Straitfan
01-20-2012, 02:53 AM
Follow this on and off and "guessing" friends are off limits but still don't get it... Me and my friends would have never seperated for a long period and not looked/called one another like that. Absurd to even compenhend in my mind...and always will be.

Straitfan
01-20-2012, 02:56 AM
Nor left without the other unless....we knew where they were headed and that was the late 70's with no cell phones... There's alot I just don't buy to this story...starting with the concert plans...

R.U.Kidding!
01-20-2012, 10:15 AM
What would that look like? A desperate Morgan begging to be let back in and a sadistic guard laughing and denying her? Or....? What's your thinking?

Yeah and he would have to be twitsting his evil little mustache!!!
Ouch! I deserved that, LOL.
Actually I was thinking more along the lines of Security" never" telling Morgan she could not get back in, and perhaps having another a" not so professional interaction with her".
Bottom Line--without security camera's where is the oversight for "security". I mean they could say or do anything they wanted and no one would be the wiser, right?

soothsayer
01-20-2012, 12:17 PM
Not sure that surveillance video would ever prove whether or not a patron was informed that they could not re-enter. None of the many, many witnesses who saw her leaving the venue or walking around the lot have -- to our knowledge -- reported security having a "not so professional" interaction with her -- whatever that means. Kissing her? Killing her? What are you imagining could have happened between her and security in the middle of a concert event at a large venue with all manner of people milling about inside and outside?

davehead21
01-20-2012, 12:18 PM
....and ya gotta admit there are an abundance of those,eh?
Thanks

That's for sure!!!!



Follow this on and off and "guessing" friends are off limits but still don't get it... Me and my friends would have never seperated for a long period and not looked/called one another like that. Absurd to even compenhend in my mind...and always will be.

If we are going to blame the friends, then we have to blame Morgan as well. She was a grown woman who left on her own accord and her friends were not there to babysit her.

R.U.Kidding!
01-20-2012, 06:53 PM
If we are going to blame the friends, then we have to blame Morgan as well. She was a grown woman who left on her own accord and her friends were not there to babysit her.

You are absolutely right, and Morgan's actions and choices were an unfortunate contribution to her own death. Would never deny that. In fact I have often wondered if the reason her friends were off limits, was because of what they Might have to say about Morgan's interpersonal relationships. We really do not now anything about "Morgan" , but as long as LE has all the info they need, there really is no need for that.

R.U.Kidding!
01-20-2012, 07:21 PM
Not sure that surveillance video would ever prove whether or not a patron was informed that they could not re-enter. None of the many, many witnesses who saw her leaving the venue or walking around the lot have -- to our knowledge -- reported security having a "not so professional" interaction with her -- whatever that means. Kissing her? Killing her? What are you imagining could have happened between her and security in the middle of a concert event at a large venue with all manner of people milling about inside and outside?

All I am saying is "without security camera's" They could have said or done anything. They were the "law" at that venue. Who knows if the door she exited by was able to be seen by "all manner of people milling about inside and outside"

Here is a scenario:

Morgan is a beautiful girl, a little drunk or high, or whatever. She had just fallen contributing to her disorientation. Security guard sees her leave and know she cannot get back in, what is to stop him from waiting until she is alone, then coming to her rescue by offering her a ride--They knew her situation and that she was totally alone and vulnerable. I cannot believe Morgan would have gotten into "any ones" car for a ride, unless she felt they were some type of authority. Especially if the composite sketch is who we are looking for, but if he were in security uniform --possible?

Guess I am one of those "crazy people" who actually believe this is a possible theory. If not security, then one of the people she walked with and spoke to.
Let's face it what are the odds she is going to get past all these interactions with security, BB players,and attendees and go free only to be picked up by the first car that comes along, and it is a psycho. That is quite a stretch, wouldn't you say?

soothsayer
01-20-2012, 08:33 PM
Guess I am one of those "crazy people" who actually believe this is a possible theory. If not security, then one of the people she walked with and spoke to.
Let's face it what are the odds she is going to get past all these interactions with security, BB players,and attendees and go free only to be picked up by the first car that comes along, and it is a psycho. That is quite a stretch, wouldn't you say?

No, not a stretch at all, as it's probably exactly what happened.

Who stops for hitch hikers? Psychos, because they aren't afraid that the hitch hikers are axe murderers, like normal people assume. And that's why the normal people -- like the witnesses who saw her hitch hiking -- kept driving right on by.

soothsayer
01-20-2012, 09:06 PM
I cannot believe Morgan would have gotten into "any ones" car for a ride, unless she felt they were some type of authority. Especially if the composite sketch is who we are looking for, but if he were in security uniform --possible?


Well, I didn't know the girl so couldn't possibly know what she would or would not do -- much less what she would or would not do when drunk or high. But her parents have described her as naive, as seeing only the best in people, as being "guileless" -- probably color blind, too, and she might well be insulted that we think she wouldn't get into a car with a black dude who stopped to give her a ride, especially after other people drove by without stopping.

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 06:29 AM
New Hook story is up for the 2 year anniversary of the discovery of her body, but no revelations.

http://www.readthehook.com/102698/pain-and-frustration-two-years-later-no-arrest-harrington-case

Lera213
01-21-2012, 06:56 AM
You know my two son's back then were going to a concert. I thought they were going to this Metallica concert. I didn't pay any mind to it, but when the news came out that she was missing from the concert. I went straight to my boys to ask them if they noticed anything strange. They didn't go to that concert, they went to one in Richmond the day after or before. I forget.

At first I thought oh please let my kids be the one to bring peace to this family in that they saw something strange. I follow this case but never post about it.

It hit hard for me because my boys went to a concert. It could have been them even if they are boys!

Lera213
01-21-2012, 07:02 AM
I often thought what if one of her friends or someone there slipped her something in a drink. (Date rape) and once inside she started to feel that drug, this is why she left the concert to go outside. Could it be someone on the inside that saw her and slipped something to her, or told her it was something else and she took it.

He waits, and follows her outside.

Also not sure these days but cops off duty sometimes takes side jobs at concerts.

Also I find it strange that there wasn't a few patrol cars around the venue especially during a Metallica concert.

Heck cops usually get some good bust watching people coming and going, drunk, stoned, and then pull them over when they drive off.

I found it strange that no cops there. Only the venue security.

I only know this, that there is a killer out there, and he will kill again and probably has for all we know.

She was a very pretty girl and wonderful parents. I pray they find the person who did this.

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 08:17 AM
Found this in an older story:
Evidence from where Harrington's body was discovered linked the slaying to the Fairfax suspect, whose sketch was drawn by a police artist there. Detectives said they don't know the man's identity.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/263463

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 09:29 AM
The challenge with the date rape drug scenario is that it wouldn't necessarily have made her leave the concert or separated from her friends. And no one was seen following her.

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 10:58 AM
I often thought what if one of her friends or someone there slipped her something in a drink. (Date rape) and once inside she started to feel that drug, this is why she left the concert to go outside. Could it be someone on the inside that saw her and slipped something to her, or told her it was something else and she took it.

He waits, and follows her outside.

Also not sure these days but cops off duty sometimes takes side jobs at concerts.

Also I find it strange that there wasn't a few patrol cars around the venue especially during a Metallica concert.

Heck cops usually get some good bust watching people coming and going, drunk, stoned, and then pull them over when they drive off.

I found it strange that no cops there. Only the venue security.

I only know this, that there is a killer out there, and he will kill again and probably has for all we know.

She was a very pretty girl and wonderful parents. I pray they find the person who did this.

I believe there were cops around. Morgan probably had the sense to avoid them like the plague lest she get a drunk in public charge. Probably straightened up within site of anyone in authority. She was an experienced concert-goer and I imagine an experienced partier too.

rossva
01-21-2012, 01:51 PM
Here is my opinion on Morgan, the "hitch-hiking" sighting and her getting into a car.

As is assumed, Morgan IS a little under the influence of something, be it too much to drink, or some other substance, add in maybe a little confused from the fall (if that in fact did happen), and has just a few minutes ago, had a phone conversation with friends telling them that she couldn’t get back into the arena and that she would find her own way back home.

Morgan then starts walking away from JPJA, ends up on the Copeley Road bridge, sees a car either (completely coincidentally) identical in make and model, or extremely similar to her car coming towards her. Thinking it is her friends coming to rescue her, she willing hops in the car, not realizing till it's too late she has gotten into a car with a complete stranger.

That would explain how she was seen "hitch-hiking", something her parents have said was totally uncharacteristic for her; she was mock hitch-hiking at what she thought was her friends.

I may seem far fetched for such a coincidence, but with everything else that went awry for Morgan that night, who knows?




Morgan is a beautiful girl, a little drunk or high, or whatever. She had just fallen contributing to her disorientation. <snipped> I cannot believe Morgan would have gotten into "any ones" car for a ride, unless she felt they were some type of authority. <snipped> only to be picked up by the first car that comes along, and it is a psycho.

rossva
01-21-2012, 02:19 PM
BBM. But, as far as I know, Morgan's ticket has never been found. If she voluntarily left the arena, and either left her ticket inside, or lost it while outside, what responsibility would the venue have to provide a "safe place" in that circumstance.

And could you imagine the insurance a venue would have to pay to maintain such a safe place? Especially if it was used for people under the influence of drugs or alcohol?



I would really like to see the Harringtons lobby for some sort of a law that says venues must provide a "safe place" for a person who has a valid ticket to an event (concert, game, etc.) who has found themselves outside of the venue. In an arena like JPJ or at a stadium, it could be an empty office-- just someplace!!

R.U.Kidding!
01-21-2012, 02:35 PM
BBM. But, as far as I know, Morgan's ticket has never been found. If she voluntarily left the arena, and either left her ticket inside, or lost it while outside, what responsibility would the venue have to provide a "safe place" in that circumstance.

And could you imagine the insurance a venue would have to pay to maintain such a safe place? Especially if it was used for people under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

You know I believe your right about her ticket. Unless the friends had it and LE have not disclosed that info. Then where does that story about it being in "pieces" in the bottom of her purse come in. Wouldn't they have found it when they found her purse.......and if it was in pieces, so what, the ticket taker could have asked to see the pieces as proof, but she supposedly stopped her from retrieving the ripped ticket. Is that story even correct?

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 04:04 PM
You know I believe your right about her ticket. Unless the friends had it and LE have not disclosed that info. Then where does that story about it being in "pieces" in the bottom of her purse come in. Wouldn't they have found it when they found her purse.......and if it was in pieces, so what, the ticket taker could have asked to see the pieces as proof, but she supposedly stopped her from retrieving the ripped ticket. Is that story even correct?

Her ticket and its whereabouts are really irrelevant. It could have been in pieces in the bottom of her purse (ripped up in anger, or falling apart after falling on the wet ground), it could have been intact in an envelope in her pocket, laminated and worn around her neck, stapled to her forehead -- it wouldn't have mattered. You can't get back in with a ticket that has already been scanned for entry, as hers had been.

The mystery over where her ticket is now seems overblown to me. If you've ever visited a venue AFTER an event has finished, you'll know how much litter there is on the ground. Programs, bracelets (worn by those old enough to drink, and now torn off and discarded), and yes, you will find lots and lots of tickets dropped by those who were either content with their memories, or too unsentimental or too tipsy or tired to hold onto a memento. Since her purse was found a bit spilled out on the ground, perhaps the ticket had fallen out of it and the finder didn't think to scoop it up because it looked like trash (ripped up or just wet with rain and dew), or perhaps it blew away. Either way, the grounds crew that descended on the area the next day with their rubber gloves and trash bags more than likely picked it up with the rest of the detritus of the 14,000 other people who were at the show, and tossed it. No mystery there.

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=rossva;7532017]
Morgan then starts walking away from JPJA, ends up on the Copeley Road bridge, sees a car either (completely coincidentally) identical in make and model, or extremely similar to her car coming towards her. Thinking it is her friends coming to rescue her, she willing hops in the car, not realizing till it's too late she has gotten into a car with a complete stranger.

That would explain how she was seen "hitch-hiking", something her parents have said was totally uncharacteristic for her; she was mock hitch-hiking at what she thought was her friends.

[QUOTE]

Here's the problem with that theory, as I see it. It would depend upon her playfully sticking out her thumb only when she spied a car that looked like hers. Yet the witnesses who passed her as she was thumbing a ride were not likely all in the same make and model as her 3 year old Honda, or were not likely to happen upon her as a Honda that looked like hers was approaching. Yet they saw her hitch hiking on that bridge as they drove past her. So she must have been hitch hiking.

I know people don't want her to have been hitch hiking, and that it's very, very hard for people to accept that she was, but I'm not sure why. Is it because we all know it's dangerous to hitch hike, and we don't want her to do anything dangerous because she might get killed? She DID get killed. Maybe people feel they would be blaming the victim if they acknowledged that she took a risk.

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 05:37 PM
BBM. But, as far as I know, Morgan's ticket has never been found. If she voluntarily left the arena, and either left her ticket inside, or lost it while outside, what responsibility would the venue have to provide a "safe place" in that circumstance.

And could you imagine the insurance a venue would have to pay to maintain such a safe place? Especially if it was used for people under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

Yes, that would be QUITE a liability for the venue. And I'm sure they don't want to turn over those types of patrons (drunk or drugged) to the police -- they'd get a horrible reputation for doing that, as it would put a big damper on the fun of going to a show.

Plus, I'm not sure how someone could prove they 'lost' a ticket. Even friends who vouch for you could be lying just to sneak you in.

I wonder when the Harringtons will serve RMC with the civil suit. According to the court website, there's only been that initial filing, and nothing else so far.

R.U.Kidding!
01-21-2012, 05:56 PM
:razz:
Her ticket and its whereabouts are really irrelevant. It could have been in pieces in the bottom of her purse (ripped up in anger, or falling apart after falling on the wet ground), it could have been intact in an envelope in her pocket, laminated and worn around her neck, stapled to her forehead -- it wouldn't have mattered. You can't get back in with a ticket that has already been scanned for entry, as hers had been.

The mystery over where her ticket is now seems overblown to me. If you've ever visited a venue AFTER an event has finished, you'll know how much litter there is on the ground. Programs, bracelets (worn by those old enough to drink, and now torn off and discarded), and yes, you will find lots and lots of tickets dropped by those who were either content with their memories, or too unsentimental or too tipsy or tired to hold onto a memento. Since her purse was found a bit spilled out on the ground, perhaps the ticket had fallen out of it and the finder didn't think to scoop it up because it looked like trash (ripped up or just wet with rain and dew), or perhaps it blew away. Either way, the grounds crew that descended on the area the next day with their rubber gloves and trash bags more than likely picked it up with the rest of the detritus of the 14,000 other people who were at the show, and tossed it. No mystery there.

OK,OK:razz: WOW you really did a lot of thinking about this ticket,huh?:sheesh: Just wondered why it was even mentioned that her ticket was in pieces....No problem we'll just let that go, K??

davehead21
01-21-2012, 07:03 PM
BBM. But, as far as I know, Morgan's ticket has never been found. If she voluntarily left the arena, and either left her ticket inside, or lost it while outside, what responsibility would the venue have to provide a "safe place" in that circumstance.

And could you imagine the insurance a venue would have to pay to maintain such a safe place? Especially if it was used for people under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

I completely agree and if you have read all of my posts, you would know that I don't think no reentry rules should change because of a few adults who get too drunk or too drugged to know they should stay inside the venue. For completely selfish and personal reasons, I would just like to see how the push for a law or something of that nature would play out.

davehead21
01-21-2012, 07:55 PM
Maybe people feel they would be blaming the victim if they acknowledged that she took a risk.

SBM

I have always wondered if this is part of the reason the Harringtons have asked that Morgan's friends be left alone. If people start questioning their actions (ie-- why one of them didn't go to be with her), then they would certainly have to question Morgan's actions.


You are absolutely right, and Morgan's actions and choices were an unfortunate contribution to her own death. Would never deny that. In fact I have often wondered if the reason her friends were off limits, was because of what they Might have to say about Morgan's interpersonal relationships. We really do not now anything about "Morgan" , but as long as LE has all the info they need, there really is no need for that.

BBM

And I have also wondered the same. I said up-thread that I have a friend who sometimes separates herself from the people she's with with when going someplace. She just cannot understand why it's dangerous to go off on her own, especially when she has been drinking. There was an incident this past summer that was awful and scary and I will never go to a big event with her again. We went a concert, Farm Aid of all things....everyone else was so calm, except my friend. She got incredibly drunk and was horribly belligerent (which is a complete 180 from how she normally acts). I had so many people give me a sympathetic smile because I was having to deal with her craziness and I even had a handful of people stop me and tell me to keep a close eye on her because she was acting so crazy. There was no talking to her about her behavior because she would start raising her voice at me, causing a scene. I think we all know that, sometimes, there is just no talking to a person under the influence. Very long story short, she ended up running off from me. I literally took my eyes off of her for 30 seconds and she was gone, no where to be found. Before we had left to go to the venue, we had an argument about her taking her cell phone-- she refused. So, I couldn't even call/text her. Luckily our story turned out a lot different than Morgan's. However, it does make me look at her friends in a new light if this is the way Morgan was behaving, which I think it likely was.

Some people are impossible to deal with when they are drinking/drugging and it can cause major problems in relationships. Morgan was young, she probably partied a lot, so it's very possible that her drinking/drugging did cause issues in her relationships. Again, no judgement from me....I've been there.

soothsayer
01-21-2012, 09:38 PM
:razz:

OK,OK:razz: WOW you really did a lot of thinking about this ticket,huh?:sheesh: Just wondered why it was even mentioned that her ticket was in pieces....No problem we'll just let that go, K??

I think it was mentioned in the Hook article as part of showing how strangely Morgan was acting that evening.

rossva
01-21-2012, 09:53 PM
I was not questioning the where abouts of her ticket in regards to re-entering the the venue for the concert. I understand "no re-admittance" means "NO re-admittance".

I only brought it up in response to the post davehead21 made "I would really like to see the Harringtons lobby for some sort of a law that says venues must provide a "safe place" for a person who has a valid ticket'



Her ticket and its whereabouts are really irrelevant. It could have been in pieces in the bottom of her purse (ripped up in anger, or falling apart after falling on the wet ground), it could have been intact in an envelope in her pocket, laminated and worn around her neck, stapled to her forehead -- it wouldn't have mattered. You can't get back in with a ticket that has already been scanned for entry, as hers had been.

The mystery over where her ticket is now seems overblown to me. If you've ever visited a venue AFTER an event has finished, you'll know how much litter there is on the ground. Programs, bracelets (worn by those old enough to drink, and now torn off and discarded), and yes, you will find lots and lots of tickets dropped by those who were either content with their memories, or too unsentimental or too tipsy or tired to hold onto a memento. Since her purse was found a bit spilled out on the ground, perhaps the ticket had fallen out of it and the finder didn't think to scoop it up because it looked like trash (ripped up or just wet with rain and dew), or perhaps it blew away. Either way, the grounds crew that descended on the area the next day with their rubber gloves and trash bags more than likely picked it up with the rest of the detritus of the 14,000 other people who were at the show, and tossed it. No mystery there.

rossva
01-21-2012, 10:04 PM
But, do we know exactly how many people, and in how many vehicles they were in, that witnessed her hitch-hiking? If it were to say, three people, they could have all been in the same car, and it was the car behind them, or further down the street, that was the look a like car.

I know if I was walking away from my friends, and they were driving my car, I'd pretend to hitch hike as soon as I saw the car. And, at dusk/early evening impaired, and in the misting rain, I might think a lot of different cars looked like mine till way after it was too late.




Here's the problem with that theory, as I see it. It would depend upon her playfully sticking out her thumb only when she spied a car that looked like hers. Yet the witnesses who passed her as she was thumbing a ride were not likely all in the same make and model as her 3 year old Honda, or were not likely to happen upon her as a Honda that looked like hers was approaching. Yet they saw her hitch hiking on that bridge as they drove past her. So she must have been hitch hiking.

I know people don't want her to have been hitch hiking, and that it's very, very hard for people to accept that she was, but I'm not sure why. Is it because we all know it's dangerous to hitch hike, and we don't want her to do anything dangerous because she might get killed? She DID get killed. Maybe people feel they would be blaming the victim if they acknowledged that she took a risk.

soothsayer
01-22-2012, 06:26 AM
RossVa, the police have said there were 3 witnesses to her hitch hiking. If the father and daughter count as 2 sightings, then there was at least one more car that saw her; if they count as 1 sighting, then there's a third car, too.

rossva
01-22-2012, 11:11 AM
So, in other words, it is possible, that out of even three or four cars driving down Copley, one could have been one Morgan thought was her friends coming to get her.



RossVa, the police have said there were 3 witnesses to her hitch hiking. If the father and daughter count as 2 sightings, then there was at least one more car that saw her; if they count as 1 sighting, then there's a third car, too.

soothsayer
01-22-2012, 12:44 PM
So, in other words, it is possible, that out of even three or four cars driving down Copley, one could have been one Morgan thought was her friends coming to get her.

Sure. But since she was asking strangers in the lot for a ride, and didn't find one, it seems like it's a pretty good chance that she was actually trying to hitch a ride on that road.

soothsayer
01-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Looks like there were three different cars that spotted her. From the Hook last Feb:

Within approximately 10 minutes of those two bridge crossings, two other unrelated witnesses reported to police that they'd seen a blond woman hitchhiking there. Cappuzzo says all witnesses' stories have been thoroughly vetted by police, and none are considered suspects.

R.U.Kidding!
01-23-2012, 01:00 PM
Looks like there were three different cars that spotted her. From the Hook last Feb:

Within approximately 10 minutes of those two bridge crossings, two other unrelated witnesses reported to police that they'd seen a blond woman hitchhiking there. Cappuzzo says all witnesses' stories have been thoroughly vetted by police, and none are considered suspects.

Maybe I am misunderstanding this :

BB players were last to see Morgan before the bridge
That was around 9:30

Father/ daughter cross bridge 1st time at approx 9:31
They see Morgan hitchhiking

Father comes back over bridge 2nd time after dropping daughter off and "Morgan was gone"

Now if 3 witnesses observed Morgan on the bridge within a 10 minute time span: 9:30 to 9:40 , how could 3 witnesses see her on bridge without seeing someone pick her up??

Remember when the father came back she was gone. So from 9:30 to maybe 9:35 she would have had to have been taken, if not the father on his return trip would have seen who picked her up, right??

otto
01-23-2012, 02:06 PM
It seems to me that a law making it illegal to hitchhike would go a long way towards preventing similar tragedies from happening. I'm not convinced that doing anything about drunk people being allowed to break the no re-entry rule helps anyone.

soothsayer
01-23-2012, 03:25 PM
Maybe I am misunderstanding this :

Now if 3 witnesses observed Morgan on the bridge within a 10 minute time span: 9:30 to 9:40 , how could 3 witnesses see her on bridge without seeing someone pick her up??



Must take just seconds to cross that bridge, and seconds for her to hop into a car that stops. So if a witness passes at 9:31, and another at 9:32, and another at 9:33, then perhaps the fourth car stopped at 9:34 and she hopped in and was gone, with no witnesses.

OR...two cars could have passed her at 9:31 or 9:32 (traveling in the same or opposite directions) and then when the fourth car stopped at 9:33, she could lean into the window and chat with him for a minute or even 2 and be gone before any other witnesses drove by.

R.U.Kidding!
01-23-2012, 06:14 PM
Must take just seconds to cross that bridge, and seconds for her to hop into a car that stops. So if a witness passes at 9:31, and another at 9:32, and another at 9:33, then perhaps the fourth car stopped at 9:34 and she hopped in and was gone, with no witnesses.

OR...two cars could have passed her at 9:31 or 9:32 (traveling in the same or opposite directions) and then when the fourth car stopped at 9:33, she could lean into the window and chat with him for a minute or even 2 and be gone before any other witnesses drove by.

I hear you. To me, it just seems like Morgan had to be the unluckiest person ever. Consider she got past all those witnesses, she was still ok, but the minute she set foot on that bridge within a matter of minutes she had accepted a ride with "the Psycho", and 3 people saw her hitchhiking, but no one saw her getting into a car.
It would of had to be pretty quick, and that doesn't leave room for a struggle.
So who would Morgan find reasonable to accept a ride with?

That is why I keep going back to someone in authority--Campus police, security, or LE.
I am not arguing this point because I do not believe she was hitchhiking, apparently her scent was traced to that bridge. Do you know where her scent was lost?

otto
01-23-2012, 06:42 PM
I hear you. To me, it just seems like Morgan had to be the unluckiest person ever. Consider she got past all those witnesses, she was still ok, but the minute she set foot on that bridge within a matter of minutes she had accepted a ride with "the Psycho", and 3 people saw her hitchhiking, but no one saw her getting into a car.
It would of had to be pretty quick, and that doesn't leave room for a struggle.
So who would Morgan find reasonable to accept a ride with?

That is why I keep going back to someone in authority--Campus police, security, or LE.
I am not arguing this point because I do not believe she was hitchhiking, apparently her scent was traced to that bridge. Do you know where her scent was lost?

They have the guy's DNA and he's connected with another sexual assault from about 6 years ago. There's a sketch of the guy from the first victim. I doubt he works with campus security or police.

R.U.Kidding!
01-23-2012, 07:00 PM
They have the guy's DNA and he's connected with another sexual assault from about 6 years ago. There's a sketch of the guy from the first victim. I doubt he works with campus security or police.

Hi Otto,

Yes, I know they have the composite sketch with DNA from where Morgan was found. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a "security" connection or just posed as LE to get Morgan into the car, right? We also don't know exactly where his DNA was discovered at the site. He may have been one of several people to have had a hand in her demise.

soothsayer
01-24-2012, 11:50 AM
Hi Otto,

Yes, I know they have the composite sketch with DNA from where Morgan was found. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a "security" connection or just posed as LE to get Morgan into the car, right? We also don't know exactly where his DNA was discovered at the site. He may have been one of several people to have had a hand in her demise.

He worked alone when he assaulted the Fairfax woman. No reason to think he would change to a group affair. He might not even have been planning an attack until Morgan fell into his lap that night as a perfect victim.

R.U.Kidding!
01-24-2012, 02:06 PM
He worked alone when he assaulted the Fairfax woman. No reason to think he would change to a group affair. He might not even have been planning an attack until Morgan fell into his lap that night as a perfect victim.

Wasn't the Fairfax case some 5 years ago?

He did not wait 5 years to attack again?
There must be other cases that COULD be connected to him during that time?

What is his connection to Anchorage Farm?
He must be very comfortable there. Think of how much time and difficulty it took for him to leave her in that particular spot?

.....and if he knew that area that well, people in that area must know HIM pretty well, right?

SO WHY-- SO LONG TO FIND HIM???

I could see if that area had a predominantly black demographic, does it??
....and if not then that limits the pool of suspects considerably?:banghead:

soothsayer
01-24-2012, 03:05 PM
AF is an interesting conundrum. It could be someplace he's familiar with, or someplace he scoped out in advance (some serial killers do that), or it could just have been the first big, dark farm he passed driving down 29 away from Copeley Rd bridge, so he took a right on Red Hill Rd, drove her back by the pond to attack her, then maybe left her in the field just over the fence line. Perhaps she was alive and walked or ran or crawled to that little field, until she ran into the fence and could go no farther. Perhaps she made it partway there and animals dragged her the rest of the way. Maybe she got away from him at the pond and ran into the field and he chased her until she was cornered in the little field between the fence and the creek.

Hard to say whether he attacked anyone between 2005 and 2009. Some rapes go unreported.

rossva
01-24-2012, 05:03 PM
I am in the minority here, but I think Anchorage Farms was a completely at random location the killer picked.

That area is not so populated that it's possible no one knows who "sketch" is, if he does have ties to it.




Wasn't the Fairfax case some 5 years ago?

He did not wait 5 years to attack again?
There must be other cases that COULD be connected to him during that time?

What is his connection to Anchorage Farm?
He must be very comfortable there. Think of how much time and difficulty it took for him to leave her in that particular spot?

.....and if he knew that area that well, people in that area must know HIM pretty well, right?

SO WHY-- SO LONG TO FIND HIM???

I could see if that area had a predominantly black demographic, does it??
....and if not then that limits the pool of suspects considerably?:banghead:

soothsayer
01-24-2012, 05:38 PM
I'm with you, rossva, on AF possibly being random. I think they put their eggs all in one basket looking for a person who must have ties to North Garden. He might not even have ties to Fairfax.

R.U.Kidding!
01-24-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm with you, rossva, on AF possibly being random. I think they put their eggs all in one basket looking for a person who must have ties to North Garden. He might not even have ties to Fairfax.

I happen to agree with you both. It really bothers me they put so much emphasis on that "Farm" as the key piece of evidence to a suspect. Think they lost a lot of ground with that theory, and it can never be made up.

I think like you Rossva, if "sketch" knew that area that well, then that area would have known him, and we would have a name by now.

soothsayer
01-26-2012, 11:48 AM
Gil's latest poem refers to broken ribs.

http://findmorgan.com/category/family-blog

soothsayer
01-26-2012, 09:30 PM
Update from VSP today:
Since many of you today are covering the 2 nd anniversary of Morgan Harrington’s remains being found in Albemarle County…below is all we have to release at this time in regards to the investigation… The investigation remains active and ongoing at this time. We do still receive tips and leads, and pursue each one. We also continue to encourage anyone with information regarding Morgan’s disappearance and death to please call the Virginia State Police at (434) 352-3467 or email State Police at bci-appomattox@vsp.virginia.gov. Also accepting tips is the Jefferson Area Crime Stoppers at 434-977-4000. A reward of $150,041 is available for information that leads to an arrest and conviction in this case. Thanks, Corinne N. Geller Public Relations Director Virginia State Police Office: 804-674-2789...Bberry: 804-263-5547...Email: corinne.geller@vsp.virginia.gov Visit us at vsp.virginia.gov or on Face

R.U.Kidding!
01-26-2012, 11:10 PM
I wonder why the Harrington's have never hired a private investigator. Even after a sketch of a possible suspect was released we still know very little. Would seem to me that might be the best way to go for answers, even better than a civil suite.


....and I no longer read Gil's thoughts on Morgan. I found her 2011 Birthday poem for Morgan really strange, but that's just me, maybe I just don't get the whole poetry thing. I thought that one was pretty creepy.

Walker
01-27-2012, 03:29 AM
I wonder why the Harrington's have never hired a private investigator.

How would we know?

Walker
01-27-2012, 03:34 AM
R.U.Kidding, you have to order it by mail from the clerk of the court. It's a brief (pardon the pun) 4 pages that will answer absolutely zero questions. In fact, it doesn't say much more than the pertinent points I noted. That she went to a concert on Oct. 17, that RMC is responsible for security, that she went to the bathroom and somehow injured her chin, and that unknown people reported it to security but they didn't respond. And that she left the arena for reasons currently unclear and tried to get back in, that the guards didn't let her back in nor did they report her injury or her attempts to get back in (report to whom, it doesn't say). And then, as a result, she was left isolated and alone (with a phone and a lot full of people she interacted with, but the suit doesn't say that) and at some point, somewhere, was abducted and murdered (was she?), and that RMC should thus pay $3.5M.


Depending on the circumstances, for security/arena management to ignore a report of an injury to a specifically identified individual could be reasonable grounds for a law suit.

Walker
01-27-2012, 04:33 AM
Here is my opinion on Morgan, the "hitch-hiking" sighting and her getting into a car.

As is assumed, Morgan IS a little under the influence of something, be it too much to drink, or some other substance, add in maybe a little confused from the fall (if that in fact did happen), and has just a few minutes ago, had a phone conversation with friends telling them that she couldn’t get back into the arena and that she would find her own way back home.

Morgan then starts walking away from JPJA, ends up on the Copeley Road bridge, sees a car either (completely coincidentally) identical in make and model, or extremely similar to her car coming towards her. Thinking it is her friends coming to rescue her, she willing hops in the car, not realizing till it's too late she has gotten into a car with a complete stranger.

That would explain how she was seen "hitch-hiking", something her parents have said was totally uncharacteristic for her; she was mock hitch-hiking at what she thought was her friends.

I may seem far fetched for such a coincidence, but with everything else that went awry for Morgan that night, who knows?

Or maybe just a vehicle that looks like some other friend's vehicle. Any familiar vehicle.

One of my theories is that she had made an appointment to meet some other group of persons outside the arena that night, maybe at the "241" sign across from the UV lot entrance, but at the last moment had terrible misgivings about the get-together. She tried to make it seem as if she were "with" the athletes, asking them for a ride, and later tried to hitch to avoid this group. The group was watching her, and drove forward over the bridge to pick her up. She entered their vehicle reluctantly but willingly. The lack of robbery of her jewelry or cash might indicate personal motivations.

soothsayer
01-27-2012, 06:42 AM
Depending on the circumstances, for security/arena management to ignore a report of an injury to a specifically identified individual could be reasonable grounds for a law suit.

True, but does this make the venue accountable for her death? They want $3.5M for her death. Well-- I have no idea how civil suits work. I guess there aren't specific "charges" like a criminal suit?

Bodine
01-27-2012, 12:47 PM
Folks, the lawsuit is not about financial gain or assessing blame. As has been stated by the Harringtons, and others, it is a tool to keep avenues to information open that was about to expire.

These people are not looking to assess blame or gain financially. They want to find the scum that killed their daughter. There are those that may or may not have information that can help solve this case, that may be in a self preservation mode. If the Harringtons let the statute of limitations pass, then they would have zero leverage to compel those that have information to produce that information.

Most would have filed the suit asap. The Harringtons waited til the last minute to file because, as they've stated, they didn't want to do it. They wanted to keep lines of communication open by being diplomatic, with few results.

This suit may produce nothing. Maybe no one has anything they are holding back. But the suit had to be filed before the statute of limitations ran out to be 100% sure that all bases are covered and all avenues to information are exhausted.

These people want the killer(s) of their daughter found, nothing else matters.

R.U.Kidding!
01-27-2012, 03:22 PM
I wonder why the Harrington's have never hired a private investigator.




How would we know?

LOL! Well YOU may not know, but I wouldn't speak for everyone here at WS.

Walker
01-27-2012, 05:36 PM
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/263463

Quote from above link:

Morgan wanted to become a teacher, but Gil Harrington said she doubts that Morgan would have reached children in Zambia.

"In a convoluted way, she will probably do more good in this life than she would have alive," her mother said.

Because MH’s tragic death resulted in a fund to put up a small local third world school, M is doing more good dead than alive?

Perhaps we sentimentalize education too much.

soothsayer
01-27-2012, 08:31 PM
Folks, the lawsuit is not about financial gain or assessing blame. As has been stated by the Harringtons, and others, it is a tool to keep avenues to information open that was about to expire.

These people are not looking to assess blame or gain financially.



Well, I'm not sure about that. Gil gives a few reasons for filing. And would like to put that $3.5M to good use. And they do seem to be blaming RMC events for her death. Contributory negligence will likely mean that they won't see a dime, but if they're just after answers, they won't mind.

Gil: Questions remain about what happened that night, and this is about retaining our ability to ask those questions.

Gil: It's more than just casting about for somebody to blame. But then she says....

Gil: We may never have a criminal trial. This may be our only trial.

Should they receive $3.5 million in damages from RMC Events, Gil Harrington said her family would endow the Morgan Dana Harrington Memorial Scholarship at Virginia Tech’s Carillion School of Medicine, as well as support costs for keeping up HelpSaveTheNextGirl.com and a medical orphanage in Zambia.

“We did not do this lightly,” said Gil Harrington about the lawsuit. “We did it with great trepidation. But I think we can make changes in the world with that funding, and that made it worthwhile.”

The lawsuit alleges that RMC, providing event security that night, should have known that Morgan Harrington had suffered an injury inside the arena and also should have allowed the young woman to return to the concert after she had left the building.

The lawsuit reads, "As a result of the defendant's failure and refusal to allow plaintiff's decedent to re-enter the arena, or report her attempt to do so, plaintiff's decedent was left isolated and alone outside the arena where she was subsequently abducted and murdered."

Walker
01-29-2012, 05:15 PM
True, but does this make the venue accountable for her death? They want $3.5M for her death. Well-- I have no idea how civil suits work. I guess there aren't specific "charges" like a criminal suit?

Not sure exactly if any particular group should be held accountable, except the actual killers.

Many factors put MH at risk. Some examples:
1. apparent substance abuse;
2. being a woman alone at night in a public place;
3. possible impairment of judgment due to head injury;
4. suffering from too much stress;
5. possibly associating with some ill-intentioned acquaintances;
6. lack of political identity.

soothsayer
01-30-2012, 04:55 AM
Not sure exactly if any particular group should be held accountable, except the actual killers.

Many factors put MH at risk. Some examples:
1. apparent substance abuse;
2. being a woman alone at night in a public place;
3. possible impairment of judgment due to head injury;
4. suffering from too much stress;
5. possibly associating with some ill-intentioned acquaintances;
6. lack of political identity.

Can you elaborate on #6?

Walker
01-30-2012, 09:46 PM
Can you elaborate on #6?

#6 lack of political identity.

Maybe that's not exactly the right phrase, but VTech was on my mind. They take in too many foreign students, and JMO treat Americans as second-class citizens.

soothsayer
01-31-2012, 06:41 AM
#6 lack of political identity.

Maybe that's not exactly the right phrase, but VTech was on my mind. They take in too many foreign students, and JMO treat Americans as second-class citizens.

Ah, or worse -- she was guilty of just being a woman. Perhaps John Lennon was right in his provocatively named song,"Woman is the [N word] of the World." Women are the eternal second class citizen, to some.

clarabelle
02-19-2012, 03:50 AM
Depending on the circumstances, for security/arena management to ignore a report of an injury to a specifically identified individual could be reasonable grounds for a law suit.

She had a cut on her chin, was wasted and refused help. They would have to hold concerts in hospitals if this was cause for alarm.

clarabelle
02-19-2012, 07:10 AM
Folks, the lawsuit is not about financial gain or assessing blame. As has been stated by the Harringtons, and others, it is a tool to keep avenues to information open that was about to expire.

These people are not looking to assess blame or gain financially. They want to find the scum that killed their daughter.

Of course its about money and laying blame on someone. If they wanted to keep avenues of information open they should have told the truth about what they knew that night and perhaps it might have triggered a memory in someone that could have provided info vital information.

Morgan had been to concerts before and knew the re-entry policy. She also had to know if you're going to party you don't leave the venue and your friends and go wandering in isolated areas by yourself. One friend might be stupid enough not to be concerned that she was wandering around outside and couldn't be reached by phone. But all 3 of her friends not panicking — no way. IMO the Harringtons are in denial and this wasn't unusual behavior for Morgan or they would be suing her close friends who abandoned her that night.

There is too much background stuff that doesn't make sense and I say that only because the Harringtons hired a PR firm and answer questions with carefully chosen words. I cannot get past her mother writing this bizarre poetry talking about her daughter being raped and her bones shattered and running her fingers thru her empty eye sockets....but the cause of death won't be released "out of respect for the family".

How Morgan died is important if they want help finding answers. If there's a nut running around with a chainsaw that might get someone questioning similar interests of someone they know and calling that in to the PD. (Sorry for the extreme example). Gil claims Morgan was raped and savagely beaten but the cause of death is a secret? What?

I admire them for taking a stand on women's safety but do not respect for them for not dealing with the whole issue (IMO). I think its possible Morgan did OD and was hanging out with people and either wandered off or her body was left there. Homicide would cover ending up dead in a field miles away from where you were last seen whether someone panicked that you died or someone purposely attacked and killed you.

And I mean no disrespect to Morgan. I think she was young, vivacious, intelligent and interested in art and music and the culture around it. Partying is a common aspect. But when better to rebel but while temporarily away from home and you can fall back on your parents for support and help.

Now get your rocks ready....
I hope the Harringtons can be proud of Morgan for who she was...good and bad, and not feel the need to sanitize her as if she were striving for sainthood. Well-to-do white influential families do actually have kids who experiment with drugs and alcohol and it would be a great thing to break the stereotype of hiding the bad stuff. Alcohol (and likely drugs) were the catalyst that started this tragic evening in motion. I hope they can reach out to those other influential wealthy families who likely are going thru the same stuff with their kids. You may not change kids partying but you will leave an impression of what horrible things can happen and the trouble you can get into because kids party to be happy and forget to think safely. And that extends to the friends around you who may be forced at some point to drag you away from a situation that they sense is unsafe. You always need the designated thinker.

now for my tirade./
I wish the Harringtons would just go away and mourn quietly and unpublically (My preference). But if they cant do that then please step up to the plate and open your heart to fully help others. I think this would be something Morgan would teach. The most horrible think that will happen to you (Gil and Dan) is that people will see you as human and less than perfect (perfect does not exist) but as people who are reachable to others the same your situation. Educate and be compassionate to others as Morgans passing has taught to to feel and and relate to others so they will not see this tragic fate. / end of rant

This is all my opinion based on my life experience (not heading towards sainthood) and how i have (amazingly) lived through it all. I see signs in Morgans life of trying to keep her off those questionable paths. Maybe Morgans life was meant to teach others these basic safety concepts for yourself and among your friends.

soothsayer
02-23-2012, 08:24 AM
All my friends in Charlottesville say: Thank god, where've you been Clarabelle!? Finally some frank speaking. They hope you'll get your message out more broadly where it can be heard.

geojeffrey
02-23-2012, 08:51 AM
This is an open case and nobody here knows what really happenned that night. Nobody knows what information the Harringtons are privy too and what they are not. Their actions--that a few find to be weird or inappropriate--might be easily explained by facts that are unknown here.

Morgan's mothers poetry reflects her grieving process and why anyone would judge is beyond me. Her parents have lost their baby girl in a horrific manner and less self righteous indignation about their actions would be nice.

soothsayer
02-25-2012, 08:47 PM
Her poetry is part of her grieving process. She chooses to do it publicly, which must mean she wants or welcomes reactions or at least is game for them, or else she'd do it privately. And all reactions are valid. It's all good.

ThePhantom
03-02-2012, 12:16 PM
I'm sure this has been discussed, but -- the image of the perpetrator from the 2005 attack is hard to define -- wondering if perp is from El Savador or another area where ethnic mix is often found. Thinking that the perp may be an illegal whose fingerprints were not digitally made and put into the "system." Apparently there were a number of illegals who committed crimes, had their prints manually done, but the prints were never digitized. So when a future crime was committed, and a print check was done, no history would be found. Other thoughts -- if this individual was in Fairfax in 2005, and then in Charlottesville in 2010 -- a couple things come to mind. Was he working in the landscaping/construction business ... and/or ... dealing drugs. George Mason University is very close to the 2005 attack, and of course UVA is in Charlottesville. Is the perpetrator someone who travels around dealing drugs as part of a larger group (gang?). Forgive me if all of this has been mentioned. As ICE continues to ensure manual prints are put into its database, it will be interesting to see if a match pops up. Frank Wolf, congressman in VA, requested extra funds for just this purpose.

soothsayer
03-07-2012, 10:55 PM
Could be, Phantom. The place where the first victim was attacked is not that close to George Mason, but it's not tremendously far. But...not tremendously close, either. I can see drugs being involved in Morgan's case moreso than with the first victim, though. Not sure what to make of the looks of the fellow in the sketch; more than likely it's just a weird likeness. If you look at other police sketches, many are kind of odd or improbable looking. So far I don't see any reason to think he's anything other than a regular ol' black dude, but he could be more exotic I suppose.

clarabelle
03-08-2012, 02:25 AM
All my friends in Charlottesville say: Thank god, where've you been Clarabelle!? Finally some frank speaking. They hope you'll get your message out more broadly where it can be heard.

I honestly thought I was the ONLY person here who felt this way. Alot of things about this case have bothered me for a very long time and this law suit was the last straw.

soothsayer: I am actually surprised my comment is still here. Alot of comments in alot of places have magically disappeared.

RoseRed
03-08-2012, 04:42 AM
. Well-to-do white influential families do actually have kids who experiment with drugs and alcohol and it would be a great thing to break the stereotype of hiding the bad stuff. Alcohol (and likely drugs) were the catalyst that started this tragic evening in motion. I hope they can reach out to those other influential wealthy families who likely are going thru the same stuff with their kids.
.

But if she were a well to DO Black entertainer or their family member we should just shut up and cover up ALL the drugs so they are blameless and oh so special.. Got cha on that. We see this trend often with black celebrities.

clarabelle
03-08-2012, 08:02 AM
But if she were a well to DO Black entertainer or their family member we should just shut up and cover up ALL the drugs so they are blameless and oh so special.. Got cha on that. We see this trend often with black celebrities.

Huh? I am not exactly sure what you mean. Who is blameless and special?

My point was that drug use is often unexpected and frequently overlooked by society in certain classes/groups. Used Morgan and her (white) family as the example since its Morgan's forum. You can change the race and still have that "perfect" family. BUT if you toss in the entertainment biz where its perceived there's alot of drug and alcohol use then you drop the respectability factor down a few notches. Throw in charity work and you're back at the top of the chart.

I dont really care about any famous person's drug habits unless it causes harm to others. Families need to deal with their own issues in that respect.

soothsayer
03-08-2012, 10:55 AM
Clarabelle, others definitely share your sentiments. It's tricky to express them because there's often the knee jerk reaction we saw even here -- "Hey! Quit hating on the Harringtons!" or "Quit blaming the victim!" or "Gil has every right to do whatever she wants to -- she's mourning." I get that. But I also get how some in cville could see them as carpetbaggers, and tire of the accusations that cvillians are hiding a killer, or have an incompetent police force, or that UVA is covering it all up. I know she was found in a really offbeat location that screams familiarity with the area -- but I also know there could be some other random explanation for how she ended up there that doesn't mean it was a familiar spot to the perp.

Hermione
03-26-2012, 12:30 AM
I just want to post because I have followed this case from the beginning and I still think about the Harringtons and Morgan very often. I keep hoping for a resolution and justice. I just wish the Harringtons could know that there are a lot of people they will never know, who think of them so often and pray for them. I feel their loss.

I have not posted on Websleuths in a while but have been a member for a long time, and just as an FYI so people will know where I am coming from--I'm a divorced mother of two daughters who are 4 and 7. I'm in North Carolina, and mainly, I just know my fears in raising my daughters and the fear of ever losing either of them. My heart breaks as a mother each time I think of Gil especially. I pray so often for justice for Morgan, my own daughters will be very similar to her one day. I will always think of Morgan. Sending prayers to the Harringtons and praying for this case to be solved. :(

Kimster
03-26-2012, 12:35 AM
Thank you Hermione! :heart: That was a sweet post!

The Harringtons are awesome people. Morgan was blessed to have them as parents! I too think of them often and pray for justice. I'm also afraid that the person who killed Morgan is out there killing other women.

Hermione
03-26-2012, 12:38 AM
<snip for brevity> But I also get how some in cville could see them as carpetbaggers<snip for brevity>.

I honestly don't see how anyone could feel this way. People grieve and also take action for their cause in different ways, not everyone would behave the same, but....they had a daughter who was murdered, and the perp is not caught. Surely no one can begrudge them of the very human need to know who did this and get justice for their daughter. If I was in their position I would be frustrated- NOT blaming, but frustrated with law enforcement, the unfairness of life and loss in general, with the world for being a place where evil exists...I would have to let it out, to voice it, to keep trying for justice for my daughter. I can get the people who would do a lot of things differently...but I cannot get that anyone would not have empathy for this heartbroken family no matter what.

redsky
03-26-2012, 01:10 AM
I honestly don't see how anyone could feel this way. People grieve and also take action for their cause in different ways, not everyone would behave the same, but....they had a daughter who was murdered, and the perp is not caught. Surely no one can begrudge them of the very human need to know who did this and get justice for their daughter. If I was in their position I would be frustrated- NOT blaming, but frustrated with law enforcement, the unfairness of life and loss in general, with the world for being a place where evil exists...I would have to let it out, to voice it, to keep trying for justice for my daughter. I can get the people who would do a lot of things differently...but I cannot get that anyone would not have empathy for this heartbroken family no matter what.

I had the same thoughts regarding calling them carpetbaggers. Personally, I find that term offensive.
I don't believe that they are meddling in any affairs where they do not belong. They sure do belong right in the middle of this tragedy! They didn't choose for this to happen to their daughter.
They are terrible victims and I hope that one day the perp will be caught and given a just sentence.

MsFacetious
03-26-2012, 02:05 AM
Thank you Hermione! :heart: That was a sweet post!

The Harringtons are awesome people. Morgan was blessed to have them as parents! I too think of them often and pray for justice. I'm also afraid that the person who killed Morgan is out there killing other women.

Holly Bobo?
10 hours away, same general description, plus an out of the way location.
I don't see her mentioned in this thread anywhere, so I thought I'd throw it out there.

The most successful serial killers often move around the country.... :twocents:

MBLover
03-26-2012, 11:54 PM
And there, MsFacetious may be the reason this man has not yet been caught. He could be someone who moves around quite a bit and is not really known by many and/or does not come into contact with people who would even know about this murder. He may be able to change his appearance, as well, and probably does quite often <---- which men are capable of doing easily - such as mustache, mustache/goatee, goatee or none of those...or sideburns...full beard...shaved head, short or longer hair. Just even gaining or losing a few pounds or wearing different glasses/sunglasses/hats.

This guy hasn't been caught since his first attack...and hasn't been caught since Morgan... I pray there is no more of his victims out there, but that's probably wishful thinking. I just wish LE would hurry up and catch this guy before another suffers the same fate as Morgan.

MsFacetious
03-27-2012, 12:55 AM
And there, MsFacetious may be the reason this man has not yet been caught. He could be someone who moves around quite a bit and is not really known by many and/or does not come into contact with people who would even know about this murder. He may be able to change his appearance, as well, and probably does quite often <---- which men are capable of doing easily - such as mustache, mustache/goatee, goatee or none of those...or sideburns...full beard...shaved head, short or longer hair. Just even gaining or losing a few pounds or wearing different glasses/sunglasses/hats.

This guy hasn't been caught since his first attack...and hasn't been caught since Morgan... I pray there is no more of his victims out there, but that's probably wishful thinking. I just wish LE would hurry up and catch this guy before another suffers the same fate as Morgan.

I will always look twice at cases involving young ladies until my cousin's killer is caught. He could still be killing for another 10 years or so.
Morgan's seems like a crime of opportunity, while Holly's seems much more planned.
That tends to imply that Holly's knew her and Morgan's didn't... but it doesn't have to mean that.

It could mean that a stranger saw Morgan and took her... and a stranger saw Holly and became obsessed with her... so planned to take her.
I know they do have different abductions... but it doesn't always mean that they have different abductors... :twocents:

Hermione
03-27-2012, 01:00 AM
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/263463

Quote from above link:


Because MH’s tragic death resulted in a fund to put up a small local third world school, M is doing more good dead than alive?

Perhaps we sentimentalize education too much.

I think I understand what Gil is saying here, and I don't think she meant that Morgan is doing more good dead than alive, like that...had Morgan lived she would have lived a bright life and been a bright spot in the world, and perhaps been a teacher or made a difference to many another way. But through her death she leaves a legacy that reaches further because more people know of her in death, that would have never crossed paths or heard of her in life. It's just the sad thing about death...it reaches far. Her story became public and touched a lot of people, if nothing had happened to her we wouldn't know of her...and Gil is working hard for her death not to be in vain, and is carrying her memory as far as she can.

I have another good example of this, Laci Peterson, she and her mother Sharon Rocha have touched me so much, and if nothing had happened to her, I would never had heard of her, and I think of Sharon and her grief often as well. It's a sad legacy, but if you lose a loved one, they do reach out and touch people in ways that wouldn't have otherwise happened.

My heart really feels for Gil as a mother...and Morgan as a daughter.

PHB
03-27-2012, 01:26 AM
Aren't there alot of young, pretty, blondes missing from the south & midwest? Morgan Harrington, Holly Bobo, Lauren Speirer, and a couple more I can't think of, in the last decade?
Does anyone think the FBI might be investigating these cases as the work of a serial killer?

iluvmua
03-27-2012, 09:12 AM
Aren't there alot of young, pretty, blondes missing from the south & midwest? Morgan Harrington, Holly Bobo, Lauren Speirer, and a couple more I can't think of, in the last decade?
Does anyone think the FBI might be investigating these cases as the work of a serial killer?

I'd be real surprised if it was a serial killer

soothsayer
03-28-2012, 07:00 AM
It's amazing how many murders and disappearances go unsolved. Stranger on stranger crime is more difficult; the more easily solvable crimes have motives and suspects (people who are known to each other; people who were seen arguing, etc.).

My cville friends are sometimes annoyed by the Harringtons when they seem to accuse cville and its residents of knowingly harboring the killer -- but even then, they're not unsympathetic towards them, though; they completely empathize with the pain and loss.

Gil's latest post suggests a little bit of healing is occurring. But I worry that solving the crime is not going to make her feel any better, as he probably can't be tied to Morgan's murder enough to get a conviction, and might only get a slap on the wrist for the Fairfax assault. That will leave them in a strange place, especially when he's out of jail. The crusade to find the killer will be over; justice will not have been served for Morgan. I wonder what they'll do.

MLE
03-31-2012, 01:40 AM
I'm sure this has been discussed, but -- the image of the perpetrator from the 2005 attack is hard to define -- wondering if perp is from El Savador or another area where ethnic mix is often found. Thinking that the perp may be an illegal whose fingerprints were not digitally made and put into the "system." Apparently there were a number of illegals who committed crimes, had their prints manually done, but the prints were never digitized. So when a future crime was committed, and a print check was done, no history would be found. Other thoughts -- if this individual was in Fairfax in 2005, and then in Charlottesville in 2010 -- a couple things come to mind. Was he working in the landscaping/construction business ... and/or ... dealing drugs. George Mason University is very close to the 2005 attack, and of course UVA is in Charlottesville. Is the perpetrator someone who travels around dealing drugs as part of a larger group (gang?). Forgive me if all of this has been mentioned. As ICE continues to ensure manual prints are put into its database, it will be interesting to see if a match pops up. Frank Wolf, congressman in VA, requested extra funds for just this purpose.

I think the police determined from DNA samples that the perp is of African descent, and I think they're probably meaning black African, not Arab African.

SkewedView
03-31-2012, 12:06 PM
I think the police determined from DNA samples that the perp is of African descent, and I think they're probably meaning black African, not Arab African.

That type of test (for race) is new and not currently in use by most LEAs (mostly for understandable political reasons). It is a separate test from the normal ID tests, is handled by very few facilities, is expensive, and a PR nightmare. The Harringtons were calling for another controversial test, that would look for relatives of the perp that are already in CODIS, but I've never heard any calls for the ethnicity test.

As far as I'm aware, the ethnicity listed by LE is a 'best guess' based on what the victim remembered, which is not at all uncommon. I wouldn't be surprised if the perp turned out to be something else entirely, especially given the unreliability of witness identification in general.

All JMO.

R.U.Kidding!
04-01-2012, 11:56 AM
Aren't there alot of young, pretty, blondes missing from the south & midwest? Morgan Harrington, Holly Bobo, Lauren Speirer, and a couple more I can't think of, in the last decade?
Does anyone think the FBI might be investigating these cases as the work of a serial killer?

That is certainly a possibility. Unfortunately we get one step closer to that theory ONLY when and if Holly and Lauren are indeed dead and their bodies are found. I believe examining the remains would determine similarities consistent with One Killer/Serial killer. How sad that would be ---IMO

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
04-02-2012, 03:51 PM
Families of Morgan Harrington and Bethany Decker Unite to Warn Others

The families of two young women who disappeared are now coming together in an effort to prevent another family from feeling their loss.

Relatives of Morgan Harrington and Bethany Decker spent Saturday morning outside a Giant food store in Fairfax County.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Families-of-Morgan-Harrington-and-Bethany-Decker-Unite-to-Warn-Others-145478035.html

MLE
04-14-2012, 05:14 AM
That type of test (for race) is new and not currently in use by most LEAs (mostly for understandable political reasons). It is a separate test from the normal ID tests, is handled by very few facilities, is expensive, and a PR nightmare. The Harringtons were calling for another controversial test, that would look for relatives of the perp that are already in CODIS, but I've never heard any calls for the ethnicity test.

As far as I'm aware, the ethnicity listed by LE is a 'best guess' based on what the victim remembered, which is not at all uncommon. I wouldn't be surprised if the perp turned out to be something else entirely, especially given the unreliability of witness identification in general.

All JMO.

In this article from 2010, it reports "After all, eyewitness accounts, particularly when an attack occurs in the dark, are notoriously inaccurate. In response to the accusations of racial profiling, Charlottesville Police undertook the unusual step of having the perpetrator's DNA analyzed for ancestry and making those results public: indeed, the then-still unknown attacker's DNA was 85 percent of sub-Saharan African descent–- a virtual guarantee that he appeared black."

http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear

SkewedView
04-14-2012, 07:59 AM
In this article from 2010, it reports "After all, eyewitness accounts, particularly when an attack occurs in the dark, are notoriously inaccurate. In response to the accusations of racial profiling, Charlottesville Police undertook the unusual step of having the perpetrator's DNA analyzed for ancestry and making those results public: indeed, the then-still unknown attacker's DNA was 85 percent of sub-Saharan African descent–- a virtual guarantee that he appeared black."

http://www.readthehook.com/67132/morgans-killer-fairfax-case-connection-offers-hope-fresh-fear

Wow, I don't know how I missed that one! I was aware of the calls for the familial test, but not this. Thank you for the link!


ETA: Oops - that particular passage was referring to the perp in the Charlottesville serial rapist case, not Morgan's. So we're back to the race being questionable.

soothsayer
04-15-2012, 12:47 PM
I think he's going to turn out to be an ordinary black dude, not anything fancy. He's not going to be a policeman or security guard or fireman or EMT -- he's just going to be a disappointingly stereotypical black rapist. A real letdown from the fanciful theories out there back when we thought the perp diabolically removed her cellphone battery and put her purse in the lot after he was done with her. Given the facts, it seems more likely that she just dropped her purse and cellphone battery.

SkewedView
04-15-2012, 03:26 PM
I think he's going to turn out to be an ordinary black dude, not anything fancy. He's not going to be a policeman or security guard or fireman or EMT -- he's just going to be a disappointingly stereotypical black rapist. A real letdown from the fanciful theories out there back when we thought the perp diabolically removed her cellphone battery and put her purse in the lot after he was done with her. Given the facts, it seems more likely that she just dropped her purse and cellphone battery.

Statistics agree with you - the vast majority of people that commit violent acts against strangers are usually not successful professionals, or even capable of holding steady employment. Also, contrary to the stereotype created by Ted Bundy's overblown reputation, most serial offenders are not the sharpest knives in the drawer...

So yeah, I'm going with the ignorant, thugish wife-beater type as the most likely candidate as well.

All JMO.