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View Full Version : What Physical Evidence does LE or FBI have...



miabellamoure
06-26-2010, 11:54 AM
in the Kyron Horman investigation so far? Do we know of anything so far?

Is it even appropriate (or allowed on WS) to speculate what could have been found maybe in his home, vehicles, SI and any other search locations?

I'm going to start out by saying that IF evidence has been collected so far, my guess is that his eyeglasses were found early on. I'm also going to guess that they were disposed of somewhere other than where Kyron will be eventually found.

When they released pictures of the replica's of items he was wearing the day he disappeared, the eyeglasses for some reason have always looked (to me) like they were not "brand new".

I also am thinking this might be a critical piece of evidence already found based on the recent comments his parents, DY & KH mentioned in their interview yesterday.

kgw.com - Raw: Kyron's Parents Full Interview

http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-vi...-97177194.html

So, if this thread is allowed to continue my question to all would be this:

Do you think that LE or the FBI have collected any physical evidence in this case and what do you think it might be and where do you think it could have been found?

RoughlyCollie
06-26-2010, 12:05 PM
Do you think that LE or the FBI have collected any physical evidence in this case and what do you think it might be and where do you think it could have been found?

I have no idea. The school and the family's vehicles and home naturally would have extensive evidence that Kyron has been there.

So I think any evidence, if found, would have to be of items he was known to have with him when he disappeared being found anywhere. This would include the contents of his pockets, his glasses, his clothing and shoes, and his blood.

The focus on his glasses is alarms me because I can't think of a real good reason to publicize that Kyron is afraid when he isn't wearing his glasses.

Is the family hoping that an abductor will have a heart and comfort Kyron by trying to ease his fear if Kyron no longer has his glasses?

Does LE want the abductor to know they have Kyron's glasses and they are coming for him (or her) next? Or does LE want the abductor to be afraid because LE has the glasses and may have gotten evidence from them (fingerprints, and so forth)?

ClueMeIn
06-26-2010, 12:44 PM
I think the glasses statement is irrelevant.

MsFacetious
06-26-2010, 01:15 PM
Or that Kyron can't ID the abductor(s) with out his glasses.




The focus on his glasses is alarms me because I can't think of a real good reason to publicize that Kyron is afraid when he isn't wearing his glasses.

Is the family hoping that an abductor will have a heart and comfort Kyron by trying to ease his fear if Kyron no longer has his glasses?

Does LE want the abductor to know they have Kyron's glasses and they are coming for him (or her) next? Or does LE want the abductor to be afraid because LE has the glasses and may have gotten evidence from them (fingerprints, and so forth)?

cluciano63
06-26-2010, 01:22 PM
I seriously doubt they found the glasses. They were merely covering the bases showing a replica, as far as I am concerned. If they had found the glasses, I do not believe they would have called off the search so soon. I think it makes sense that they circulated a photo without his glasses as he might look very different to some people without them.

As far as possible physical evidence, maybe some dirt or vegetation from truck, tires, etc. Signs of Kyron in truck, school or home would not be useful, unless they included blood, I would imagine. If there had been any significant amount of blood, I do not believe LE would indicate they are looking for a live child. That would be evidence possible murder and perhaps even enough for an arrest. Some other cases have been handled this way, I believe.

Donjeta
06-26-2010, 01:27 PM
It's just guesswork at this point since there has been no information about the evidence but I didn't take them showing the glasses as "look what we found", rather "if you see this stuff lying in the ditch call LE".

We have speculated about this being someone who was known to Kyron or someone who talked to him and lured him into doing something and he would probably have had his glasses on while talking to those people and could recognize them even if the abductor removed his glasses later on.

SleuthyGal
06-26-2010, 01:27 PM
I think I'll go watch an episode of CSI. I'll certainly have more success looking at (and guessing about) physical evidence than I ever will by speculating in this (or any) case in which no info has been released by LE.

I mean sure you can speculate till the cows come home. Who exactly is going to tell ya when you're correct? No one (here) knows anything and LE is not talking.

miabellamoure
06-26-2010, 01:28 PM
I seriously doubt they found the glasses. They were merely covering the bases showing a replica, as far as I am concerned. If they had found the glasses, I do not believe they would have called off the search so soon. I think it makes sense that they circulated a photo without his glasses as he might look very different to some people without them.

As far as possible physical evidence, maybe some dirt or vegetation from truck, tires, etc. Signs of Kyron in truck, school or home would not be useful, unless they included blood, I would imagine. If there had been any significant amount of blood, I do not believe LE would indicate they are looking for a live child. That would be evidence possible murder and perhaps even enough for an arrest. Some other cases have been handled this way, I believe.

I'm not aware that LE have called off the search for Kyron. I thought they have only cut back on their search for him...am I wrong?

I also think dirt, vegetation from tires, etc would be other possible evidences collected but, would that be from the Horman vehicles and can that be collected without a search warrant?

miabellamoure
06-26-2010, 01:32 PM
I think I'll go watch an episode of CSI. I'll certainly have more success looking at (and guessing about) physical evidence than I ever will by speculating in this (or any) case in which no info has been released by LE.

I mean sure you can speculate till the cows come home. Who exactly is going to tell ya when you're correct? No one (here) knows anything and LE is not talking.

Pretty much all of this case is speculative...so far.

mamaeb
06-26-2010, 01:33 PM
Maybe they have his backpack. Maybe there was or wasn't a lunch packed.
If kids are to take lunches and Kyron wasn't sent with one that day, that is huge.

I also wonder what they have found from the collecting of videos they asked for.

Donjeta
06-26-2010, 01:40 PM
I thought his backpack and jacket were found in the classroom, or was it a rumor?

Emeralgem
06-26-2010, 01:43 PM
Maybe they have his backpack. Maybe there was or wasn't a lunch packed.
If kids are to take lunches and Kyron wasn't sent with one that day, that is huge.

I also wonder what they have found from the collecting of videos they asked for.

Bottom line we really don't know too much anything..I do know one thing though, he looks absolutely adorable in that picture you posted..JMO

kgeaux
06-26-2010, 01:55 PM
I thought his backpack and jacket were found in the classroom, or was it a rumor?

I tried to track down a qualified source for this information, but I was not successful. As far as I could find, this was speculated about and repeated often enough and finally took on a life of its own.

I found no reference from LE or family that Kyron's backpack and jacket were in the classroom, although I think it would be likely that they were in there......according to locals it was chilly in the morning, and most kids would have had a jacket on, and most kids bring their backpacks to school.

I did note in one of the photos released of the interior of the classroom that the students' backpacks were hanging on hooks along the wall of the classroom. So if they were there, I can see a teacher not really noting their presence during the school day.

If anyone has a link that can qualify the backpack/jacket as a fact, please educate me!

RoughlyCollie
06-26-2010, 02:22 PM
Or that Kyron can't ID the abductor(s) with out his glasses.

Voice, build, clothing, and Kyron's initially sight of his abductor would aid Kyron in identifying an abductor, especially if Kyron was acquainted with that person or had seen them before.

mamaeb
06-26-2010, 02:38 PM
Voice, build, clothing, and Kyron's initially sight of his abductor would aid Kyron in identifying an abductor, especially if Kyron was acquainted with that person or had seen them before.

yes, kids with low vision pay ridiculously close attention to things and people that are right in front of them. Because often, if nearsighted, they cannot focus on things beyond a certain distance, so all their focus goes to that right in front of them.
This with heightened other senses also helps.

sorrell skye
06-26-2010, 07:26 PM
IMO, a replica of the eyeglasses was released so that if anyone were to find a similar pair discarded somewhere, they wouldn't simply ignore them, but would contact LE with that info. The same goes for the clothing items - the cargo pants, the shoes, the CSI tee shirt. LE released a description of those items so that if anyone comes upon them, they won't ignore them, but will contact LE.

The location of any of these items, if somehow found by someone, could yield possible evidence & leads that could help LE find Kyron, or help determine what happened to him, or who might have taken him, or who might have him.

If LE doesn't release specific descriptions of what to look for, and then if someone stumbles upon any of these items, they won't be significant to that person & will likely be ignored, or will perhaps be picked up & thrown into the wastebin.

LE released descriptions of Kyron's eyeglasses, clothing, and photos of him, so that if any of these items are seen or if Kyron is seen, that person will know LE is looking for him and/or those items, and will hopefully contact LE.

oceanblueeyes
06-26-2010, 07:37 PM
Other than the items they may have found of Kyron's at school that day showing he was there, I dont think they have any evidence pointing toward a suspect.

IMO

TxLady2
06-26-2010, 07:39 PM
I would think that if the glasses had been found, LE would have no reason to publish a replica of them. That was done in case someone did find them, they would know if they were his, they are not in his possession right now. Not exactly a good sign, IMO.

How exactly do you determine that his glasses were "not exactly brand new" just from a picture? And if they weren't... what possible bearing could that have on the case? Kids play and are usually a little rougher on their glasses than an adult would be.

nursebeeme
06-26-2010, 07:41 PM
there is no hint to anything being found/gleaned yet.

The second something of evidenciary value is reported on as found I will for sure put it in this thread.

If they have something now that we don't yet know about that would at this point just be speculation so I don't think you want to cloud up this thread with that sort of stuff?

Great thread though... hopefully soon we can fill it up with facts :-)

miabellamoure
06-26-2010, 08:17 PM
I would think that if the glasses had been found, LE would have no reason to publish a replica of them. That was done in case someone did find them, they would know if they were his, they are not in his possession right now. Not exactly a good sign, IMO.

How exactly do you determine that his glasses were "not exactly brand new" just from a picture? And if they weren't... what possible bearing could that have on the case? Kids play and are usually a little rougher on their glasses than an adult would be.

I clearly said they looked (to me) as not being "brand new"...not that I determined them to be...big difference. Whether I can determine that from a picture...no, I can not.

I put this thread out here because I thought it was worth thinking about what if any evidence LE may have at this point. If this thread is too premature then by all means let Admin pull it for review or close it till it's a better time...no problem.

sorrell skye
06-26-2010, 08:42 PM
Do you think that LE or the FBI have collected any physical evidence in this case and what do you think it might be and where do you think it could have been found?

sbm

I think that if the cell phone pings on Sauvie Island are true, and if the recent statements made by TH's father to People magazine are accurate (LE has taken her truck twice) then it's possible LE is waiting for lab results of whatever potential evidence they may have collected from the truck - such as soil/dust/vegetation samples, to determine if they match the soil/dust/vegetation from Sauvie Island.

ETA: Also wanted to add that LE may be interviewing potential witnesses that may have seen Kyron and/or who Kyron may have been with after he left the school grounds the day he disappeared. IOW - LE may be taking sworn affidavits from people in the community.

cluciano63
06-26-2010, 08:46 PM
I'm not aware that LE have called off the search for Kyron. I thought they have only cut back on their search for him...am I wrong?

I also think dirt, vegetation from tires, etc would be other possible evidences collected but, would that be from the Horman vehicles and can that be collected without a search warrant?

They basically called off the search when they sent searchers home and said they would be searching based on new tips as they came in. And if they had found the glasses at SI, for instance, I feel as though they would still be searching out there and I have not heard that they are. Anyway I do not feel they found his glasses.

As far as backpack, that was only mentioned, as far as I know, by TM's mother in a very early article, which may or may not be factual.

sorrell skye
06-26-2010, 08:47 PM
I also think LE may be analyzing video footage from June 3rd & 4th which they requested from the surveillance cameras.

SunsetHeel
06-26-2010, 09:36 PM
I agree the photo of the eyeglasses looked "not new" but the explanation that occurred to me at the time was simple. This is a seven year old that spends time in two households, hours apart. Each household has a copy of the glasses. Accidents can happen all the time with small children and their glasses. Traveling with glasses and rough housing with older siblings or even toddlers with wandering hands can cause glasses to come to grief. I always had extra copy of glasses and contact lenses, even when my son was a teenager. I just assumed that the glasses were given to law enforcement by the family.

txsvicki
06-26-2010, 11:15 PM
They could have even been a pair of Kyron's old glasses. The glasses he wore in the singing & whistling video looked different than the ones in latest pic of him to me. They looked bigger and like they were slipping down on his nose.

T-Rex
06-26-2010, 11:33 PM
"They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, 'The Red-Eyed Tree Frog.' "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Nellie
06-27-2010, 09:08 AM
I think the glasses statement is irrelevant.

I felt another take on his glasses were that if he has been abducted and they took his glasses away from him to change his look. It gives us clues that he would have a hard time seeing - perhaps if you saw a little boy who resembled him without glasses.

cluciano63
06-27-2010, 09:17 AM
"They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, 'The Red-Eyed Tree Frog.' "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

This was according to Terri's mother, wasn't it? It is the only mention I have seen of the backpack, other than rumors, and we have no way of knowing if this is true, since she was apparently not there.

I think physical evidence in this case is probably zero. If LE felt they had lots of circumstantial evidence and some physical evidence, they might have made an arrest.

2goldfish
06-27-2010, 10:06 AM
yes, kids with low vision pay ridiculously close attention to things and people that are right in front of them. Because often, if nearsighted, they cannot focus on things beyond a certain distance, so all their focus goes to that right in front of them.
This with heightened other senses also helps.


ot :blushing: but I love the pic in your sig, hadn't seen that one before. what a cutie, huh?

kgeaux
06-27-2010, 10:21 AM
"They arrived sometime after the school opened about 8 a.m., went to his classroom, dropped off his coat and backpack and he showed his stepmother his exhibit, 'The Red-Eyed Tree Frog.' "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Thank you! I knew people had to have read it somewhere, but I couldn't find the link.

I am not surprised that Kyron brought his jacket and backpack to school that day, and also not surprised the teacher did not note their presence (if indeed she didn't notice the items) given the fact that there are hooks along the wall to stow such things.

Regardless of the source, which appears to be SM's mother, I am really inclined to believe the jacket and bookpack were at the school that day.

miabellamoure
06-27-2010, 12:04 PM
This was according to Terri's mother, wasn't it? It is the only mention I have seen of the backpack, other than rumors, and we have no way of knowing if this is true, since she was apparently not there.

I think physical evidence in this case is probably zero. If LE felt they had lots of circumstantial evidence and some physical evidence, they might have made an arrest.

So are you saying you believe the backpack & jacket would not have been collected by LE as evidence? Even tho' they may not have any significance to the actual act of his disappearance...I would think LE would still have collected those items while the case is still ongoing.

I guess I should clarify, that I am not simply asking what evidence you feel LE or the FBI may have collected that is directly involved in any act against Kyron but, any and all evidence that they may have collected.

scandi
06-27-2010, 04:15 PM
This falls under Direct Evidence but don't know what thread to write it on, so here goes ! Tr's words are Direct Evidence that LE has.

I listened to Tr's interview again yesterday and learned something new. Paraphrasing, T said he passed Kyron in the hallway as they had been looking at different projects. They spoke and Kyron told him he was going to see the 'cool' electric project. T then proceeded to go DOWN the stairs and said he never saw Kyron again. To me that means Kyron was upstairs as they 'passed' each other.

It hit me this morning that Kyron was on the second floor when he disappeared or when he was approached by someone who ended up taking him. It could have been soon after Terri dropped him off as T said he saw her leave and Kyron didn't go with her. That would work if she had temporarily parked the car at the East door entrance and they walked up to the second floor where his room was to take the picture. If T saw her she might have been walking away from Kyron's schoolroom around 8:45 or so, walking down that long hallway to go back to her car. And Kyron was starting to walk down that long hallway to go to the room with the electrical project when he passed T.

Makes perfect sense to me, and thanks to STEADFAST for clearing up the info about the East door and where she probably or could have parked for that short time. And it was actually Kore Harlan the KOIN reporter who told about them passing in the hallway in his intro to the segment. xox

grandmaj
06-27-2010, 04:38 PM
Kimster
Where is Kyron?

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregonized
Posts: 17,031
Blog Entries: 4
Do NOT mention minors other than Kyron. Not his classmates, his family or any other minor in the whole wide world. You can link to a major news media site and discuss what is written on the site, but do not copy over the minor's name or pictures to this forum.

They are kids!!! Respect that. I have zero tolerance when it comes to minors. Please know that.


Use initials please......
__________________

scandi
06-27-2010, 04:41 PM
Kimster
Where is Kyron?

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregonized
Posts: 17,031
Blog Entries: 4
Do NOT mention minors other than Kyron. Not his classmates, his family or any other minor in the whole wide world. You can link to a major news media site and discuss what is written on the site, but do not copy over the minor's name or pictures to this forum.

They are kids!!! Respect that. I have zero tolerance when it comes to minors. Please know that.


Use initials please......
__________________

Oops, Sorry GrandmaJ, I'll go fix that ;} I see you've already done that. Thanks

JBean
06-27-2010, 04:50 PM
Just to clarify, cases are often fought and won with only circumstantial evidence.
Fingerprints are circumstantial
DNA is circumstantial
forensic evidence is circumstantial
Witness reporting seeing Kyron at school is circumstantial.


witness reporting they saw Kyron leave with someone and then that person coming back alone is also circumstantial.( think JVDS)

witness reporting they saw someone do something bad to Kyron is direct evidence.
a video of someone doing something to Kyron would also be direct evidence.


hope that helps.

winterrose
06-27-2010, 05:08 PM
Interesting,if Kyron didn't have his glasses on,he'd not be able to ID anyone he was taken to very well.But,if his glasses were taken off him in the school from behind,he'd have to go with someone,because he couldn't see well enough to get anywhere.He'd just be led by whoever and from what his father said,he'd stay in bed until someone went to get him.Did the person who took him know all of this,an easy target,a child who wouldn't cause any problems.Someone who knew he'd be too afraid to wander away.

Or did someone he know take him to someone he couldn't ID?Desiree said she didn't think it would get to this point,like it wouldn't last this long,did they think someone was just holding him for a short time?

twzzlrgirl
06-27-2010, 05:33 PM
IMO -- LE either has absolutely nothing (substantial) to go on OR they have a potential suspect and are simply waiting for verification to put out what they know.

Thought process: if they had evidence, but still didn't know who might have done this, wouldn't they put out every bit of info they had? With Kaleah Wilson, they put out her inhaler; with Shantina Smiley, they had pictures up everywhere of what they found on the beach, etc. Why keep literally everything a secret? IMO, it's one of the two choices I posted above. I pray it is the second and not the first.

BeanE
06-27-2010, 06:08 PM
IMO -- LE either has absolutely nothing (substantial) to go on OR they have a potential suspect and are simply waiting for verification to put out what they know.

Thought process: if they had evidence, but still didn't know who might have done this, wouldn't they put out every bit of info they had? With Kaleah Wilson, they put out her inhaler; with Shantina Smiley, they had pictures up everywhere of what they found on the beach, etc. Why keep literally everything a secret? IMO, it's one of the two choices I posted above. I pray it is the second and not the first.

With Kayleah and Shantina, they put out pictures of personal belongings. Kayleah's inhaler she always had on her person; Shantina and her son's shoes, her son's inhaler, etc. They did the exact same thing with Kyron - his clothing as well as his glasses, which he always had on his person.

scandi
06-27-2010, 09:28 PM
Just to clarify, cases are often fought and won with only circumstantial evidence.
Fingerprints are circumstantial
DNA is circumstantial
forensic evidence is circumstantial
Witness reporting seeing Kyron at school is circumstantial.


witness reporting they saw Kyron leave with someone and then that person coming back alone is also circumstantial.( think JVDS)

witness reporting they saw someone do something bad to Kyron is direct evidence.
a video of someone doing something to Kyron would also be direct evidence.


hope that helps.Thanks Bean, It was worth it to write the post to learn something important like that ;} I always thought any witness account was Direct. xox

kgeaux
06-28-2010, 10:46 AM
Just to clarify, cases are often fought and won with only circumstantial evidence.
Fingerprints are circumstantial
DNA is circumstantial
forensic evidence is circumstantial
Witness reporting seeing Kyron at school is circumstantial.


witness reporting they saw Kyron leave with someone and then that person coming back alone is also circumstantial.( think JVDS)

witness reporting they saw someone do something bad to Kyron is direct evidence.
a video of someone doing something to Kyron would also be direct evidence.


hope that helps.

I did not know that! I always thought fingerprints, DNA etc were physical evidence. I thought circumstantial evidence was something along the lines of being seen near a crime scene as it is occurring.

swa
06-28-2010, 11:23 AM
I think it is going to be hard to get actual "Physical Evidence" of a crime in this case. Why? Let's hypothesize that a family did this. Their DNA and fingerprints would be in cars and the home already.

Evidence might come from a home computer if certain searches were done. Cell phone records could be used to prove where a person was.

This is going to be a case where if they do charge a person in this crime -- they will NEVER admit it. It will go to trial, and it will be a circumstantial case. If you use common sense, I think you can draw a clear picture of what happened here. Getting 12 people on a jury to do it though -- I have my doubts.

Nana46
06-28-2010, 11:38 AM
Don't know where to even put this....if you follow/followed Haleigh Cumming's case it really never was narrowed down completely where she was last......this case we sort of have the very last place (or so it seems) Kyron was at...the school....I would have thought by now it would have been easier to pinpoint exactly what happened to Kyron...not the case or so we are not seeing..........how horrific that this little guy just was there and then he wasn't. I work in a school part time and I do know there are lots of places a child could be but I fully believe every inch of his school has been searched....I really cannot see a little guy climbing up and removing a ceiling tile (he is too short) but trust me...older kids do this...they stand on the commodes and remove the ceiling tiles to either hide stuff or whatever...so sad....I just want Kyron home and found safe.

cluciano63
06-28-2010, 11:48 AM
I'm not sure, short of a confession, how much LE will ever have that is not circumstantital that would point to proving anyone's guilt, if no one saw Kyron leave the school with anyone. And even if they prove, for example, that TH was not where she said she was, that hardly proves she was off doing something horrible to Kyron. Especially if defense can show that LE searched and searched the areas where TH was believed to have been and found nothing.

I am really seeing too many things in common with Cummings case and hope LE in Oregon is seeing things a lot clearer; at least they called in FBI from the start, but the FBI can't work miracles either. I honestly think a confession or lack of one, is going to turn out to be vital in this case.