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nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 07:23 PM
she will be covering this tonight.

for those not able to watch on tv here is a live link/stream:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/TIMER55

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:01 PM
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/TIMER55

for those without tv...

nancy on it now..she is just reviewing the case... with her 'bombshells'

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:01 PM
Well at least shes up to date tonight!

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:02 PM
ng: how does a 7 year old boy go missing from his own elementary school classroom..

(montage of explosive bombshell snippetts)

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:03 PM
NG: step mommy walks her son down the hallway and he is not seen again and father files for divorce "in secret"

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:05 PM
Complain about Nancy Grace here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

.........and not on this thread. Thanks!

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:06 PM
NG: taking calls live. explosive development that without knowledge of sm, K files for divorce and slaps her with a RO, and documents sealed

reporter: TH thought everything fine. doesn't know where Kaine is and TH home being counseled by her father. Baby K is with Kaine.

NG: was he urged to leave by LE? reporter said yes that is what they understand and it could be related to Polygraph

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:07 PM
Apologies...was just tryin to lighten the mood :) Literally she didn't have all the facts last night but does tonight :)

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:07 PM
NG: pass poly #1 do you get a second?

expert: new info could come up and they need to question on that

NG: extremely optimistic

Reporter: yes he thinks she failed it, his whereabouts unknown, and that now filed for divorce

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:08 PM
WW reporter on NG's show.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:09 PM
NG: going over background

WW reporter: says that TM seemed calm and collected and surprised him for a postition she was in.

NG: calm is usually a good thing so could you explain

WW: not surprised to find a reporter at her door.. chatted about door and cat.. and said from start she would not talk about case.. tried to lead down family relations road.. she deferred.. so they talked about the lawn

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:09 PM
WW reporter from Saturday(??) is on..just explaining how she was told not to talk about Kyron at all so they just talked about the lawn.

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:10 PM
Showing pics of TH in body building era..

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:11 PM
2005 mug shot!

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:11 PM
NG is not naming minors. :D Thank you!

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:11 PM
NG to Mark Klaas: never heard of family not to talk to media..

MK: long time ago LE told families to sit by phone but Polly maybe changed all this. talking about media getting her face out and he has never turned down an interview since then and says nothing better than someone talking about them and humanizing them

SHOWING BODY BUILDING PICUTRES.. and mentioning the RO
(nothing about the 16 y/o in the RO)

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:12 PM
Also occasionally showing her mugshot from the DUI a few years ago...(not relevant but for a mugshot she looked really good!)..her appearance seems to have gone downhill over the past few years ..more so than the natural aging process allows...IMO

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:12 PM
NG is not naming minors. :D Thank you!

I noticed JVM didn't either!

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:13 PM
NG is not naming minors. :D Thank you!

Err...she's said the name of Kyrons little sister twice so far..:waitasec:

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:13 PM
unleash lawyers demeanor:

RJ: would be going crazy
Cohen: bio mom body language RIFT
JT (psychiatrist): yes body language extremely important

Dee10
06-29-2010, 08:15 PM
90% of what is communicated is non-verbal.

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:17 PM
Err...she's said the name of Kyrons little sister twice so far..:waitasec:

Really? I just heard her say "19 month old" and not her name. :waitasec:

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:19 PM
talking about science fair and he didn't make it to first class

playing snippet from dad when he last saw him

talking about people magazine quote from th"s father (50/50)
_______________ (that was the montage)

NG: how many of us drop our kids off at school thinking they will be okay. On that day at the bus stop,,, they both picked him up.. did she arrange that or was it normal practice

reporter: no not normal: not sure if th asked him to go

how do you know (ng) not normal practice:? he hasn't said it wasn't

reporter: it was unusual that day that he stayed and worked at home

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:19 PM
Whenever I had to drop my daughter off inside the school I would make sure she actually made it where she was going. Good grief, she's 13 and I dropped her off at her dad's, the front door was open and I still made sure she opened the door to go in before I drove away. LOL the reporter said "I told you that last night Nancy." LOLOL

lunadelocke
06-29-2010, 08:19 PM
Really? I just heard her say "19 month old" and not her name. :waitasec:

Yep she said it at the start in the explosive segments bits and then a couple of minutes later.

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:20 PM
She kind of looks like Kiersty Ally from her Cheers days in that mugshot.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:20 PM
prior abuse:???

WW: in the oregon law abuse or immenient threat of abuse (sorry for spelling)

WW: dui with 11 year old

WW_ son sent in march to roseburg.. suffering in school and BUTTING HEADS WITH KAINE HORMAN

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:21 PM
Now the reporter is reporting everything we already found out about the past of the two couples.

mysticrose
06-29-2010, 08:21 PM
Talking head just said older brother had been butting heads with stepdad, part of the reason he moved away, along with problems in school ....

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:22 PM
Steph watts..says she stopped work (she worked 2003-2006) to specifically take care of Kyron

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:22 PM
prior abuse:???

WW: in the oregon law abuse or immenient threat of abuse (sorry for spelling)

WW: dui with 11 year old

WW_ son sent in march to roseburg.. suffering in school and BUTTING HEADS WITH KAINE HORMAN
please tell me I wasn't the only one who heard this!!!!!!!

jnTexas
06-29-2010, 08:24 PM
please tell me I wasn't the only one who heard this!!!!!!!

NOPE I heard it too!!

TheCynic
06-29-2010, 08:25 PM
please tell me I wasn't the only one who heard this!!!!!!!

Nope, not just you. That's the only new information I've heard so far. ;)

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:26 PM
Steph watts..says she stopped work (she worked 2003-2006) to specifically take care of Kyron

Is that Steph Watts? The guy reporter that is always on here? The guy talking right now!

Ms Suzanne
06-29-2010, 08:26 PM
I find it very interesting.SM sent her older son away because he was bucking heads with the Dad Kaine.If there was prior abuse why didn't kaine say something before?Why now during his filling for divorce.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:27 PM
back to the case

talking about sm last seeing kyron at school at 0845; didn't show up at first class

Matt Zurell (ng: interview hours before filing she tells them she heard about rumor and she says it is all rumor and papers issued within hours)

ng: bad that father knows something explosive... undiscolsed with TH's natural baby girl.. and ng says she would go thru hell to find that baby..

STATEMENT OF FACT..

RJ: says it is RADICAL to take this baby away from the bio mom with NOT EVEN A HEARING

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:28 PM
NG says there had to be some statement of fact that would compell the judge to issue this

passionflower
06-29-2010, 08:28 PM
Do we have a date for older son leaving???

jnTexas
06-29-2010, 08:29 PM
I honestly think what we have heard about this family is just the tip of the ice berg. I'm thinking the 16 year old needs to be interviewed if they have not already. He has first hand knowledge of this family life.

TheCynic
06-29-2010, 08:30 PM
Do we have a date for older son leaving???

I believe he said 'back in March' - but somebody else can verify.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:30 PM
(ng musci).. wow.. she is still talking about the case! I am shocked!

passionflower
06-29-2010, 08:32 PM
I believe he said 'back in March' - but somebody else can verify.

3 months ago.........revenge issue???

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:32 PM
Yeah, "ex parte". A huge factual statement must have been entered in the order. I was looking for that word earlier.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:32 PM
just going to break heard atty make a comment

atty says it is serious things when you take bio kid from bio mom... entered ex parte.. so it is based on FACTUAL STATEMENT.. not entered willy nilly because THERE IS NO DEFENSE PUT ON BY THE MOTHER BEFORE THE BABY IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE MOTHER... AND THIS IS A MAJOR DEVELOPMENT

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 08:33 PM
please tell me I wasn't the only one who heard this!!!!!!!

What does butting heads mean?

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:33 PM
exparte=huge factual statement!

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:34 PM
BTW, my sons used to butt heads with my ex, their step-father. I used to butt heads with my step-mother. I don't think that is unusual in a step-family, actually.

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:34 PM
What does butting heads mean?

Fighting, arguing kind of like two rams that butt each other in the heads.

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:35 PM
What does butting heads mean?

To me, it means they argued a lot.

TheCynic
06-29-2010, 08:35 PM
What does butting heads mean?

It means, basically, that they weren't getting along. That must sound pretty funny if you aren't used to the phrase. LOL

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:36 PM
BTW, my sons used to butt heads with my ex, their step-father. I used to butt heads with my step-mother. I don't think that is unusual in a step-family, actually.

I butt heads with my 13 year old daughter. I don't think it's that unusual with most teenagers. Mine turned from a sweet lil girl to a two headed something or other overnight.

passionflower
06-29-2010, 08:36 PM
bio children butt heads with bio parents also, esp teens!

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:36 PM
bio children butt heads with bio parents also, esp teens!

Jinx!

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 08:36 PM
I find it very interesting.SM sent her older son away because he was bucking heads with the Dad Kaine.If there was prior abuse why didn't kaine say something before?Why now during his filling for divorce.

On the Kyron FB page there was a local on there..someone who claimed her child was friends with J and she gave a totally different reason for why J was sent away. Seeing as he didnt appear to be at his grandparents long I dont think THAT can be blamed on Kaine...

JMO

cypress
06-29-2010, 08:38 PM
Could they have used Terri's previous DUI as proof of abuse/child endangerment since her child was in the car with her?

If they have PROOF as in actual, factual evidence and not a gut feeling or a strong inclination that Terri harmed Kyron, with regard to the statement for the RO, then why hasn't she been arrested?

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:40 PM
NG apparently doesn't know 1 meter equals about 3 feet.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:40 PM
What does butting heads mean?

for real? I know that cannot be for real....

back to transcription:

ex parte: means TM did not testify so there were facts that caused the judge to rule on this/approve it and than seal it

mark Klaas: development: last march this woman had three children living with her and now she is absolutely alone Mark says that he hopes they get this info out of her to bring Kyron home.

ng: if she did it he is dead

mk: I don't want to be the first one to say it but she lied and she placed herself at the place he went missing and she went to sauvie island but denies she went there

ng what is it

mk only accessible by one road 15 min.. marshy area ...been there before

ng: pngs? timeline

mk: not sure... but she also has claimed she was not at SI but mystery deepens

KM: yeah she says she was not there as far as I know

ping expert: few meter drift )15-20 feet)

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 08:42 PM
It means, basically, that they weren't getting along. That must sound pretty funny if you aren't used to the phrase. LOL

Lol i was thinking it meant they smashed there heads against each others :)

winterrose
06-29-2010, 08:43 PM
Do we have a date for older son leaving???

January

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 08:43 PM
for real? I know that cannot be for real....

back to transcription:

ex parte: means TM did not testify so there were facts that caused the judge to rule on this/approve it and than seal it

mark Klaas: development: last march this woman had three children living with her and now she is absolutely alone Mark says that he hopes they get this info out of her to bring Kyron home.

ng: if she did it he is dead

mk: I don't want to be the first one to say it but she lied and she placed herself at the place he went missing and she went to sauvie island but denies she went there

ng what is it

mk only accessible by one road 15 min.. marshy area ...been there before

ng: pngs? timeline

mk: not sure... but she also has claimed she was not at SI but mystery deepens

KM: yeah she says she was not there as far as I know

ping expert: few meter drift )15-20 feet)



For real yes. I am English and we dont use that term over here..or not in that context anyhow.

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:44 PM
for real? I know that cannot be for real....



She's from England...love the Brits!

AbbieNormal
06-29-2010, 08:46 PM
talking about science fair and he didn't make it to first class

playing snippet from dad when he last saw him

talking about people magazine quote from th"s father (50/50)
_______________ (that was the montage)

NG: how many of us drop our kids off at school thinking they will be okay. On that day at the bus stop,,, they both picked him up.. did she arrange that or was it normal practice

reporter: no not normal: not sure if th asked him to go

how do you know (ng) not normal practice:? he hasn't said it wasn't

reporter: it was unusual that day that he stayed and worked at home

Kaine said a few days ago that they planned to take Kyron for ice cream because he had done such a good job at science fair project, kind of like a celebration for science fair project, so I assumed that's why both were meeting him at bus stop, they were to go get ice cream after he got home from school....,maybe that's why he was meeting Kyron at bus stop w/ Terri....

PoppyH
06-29-2010, 08:47 PM
bio children butt heads with bio parents also, esp teens!

Yup, and by the time they are fit to live with they are usally married and living with someone els LOL Gotta love the teens:)

SuziQ
06-29-2010, 08:47 PM
Could they have used Terri's previous DUI as proof of abuse/child endangerment since her child was in the car with her?

If they have PROOF as in actual, factual evidence and not a gut feeling or a strong inclination that Terri harmed Kyron, with regard to the statement for the RO, then why hasn't she been arrested?

The judge sealed the RO to protect the investigation. IMO, this is not about that DUI from years ago. The FAPA law also states abuse/threat withing the past 180 days. It is not beneficial to arrest someone before they have all the evidence ready to go to trial. To do so would cause the perp to lawyer up and shut up. Time is on LE's side the best scenario is to get a confession and location of Kyron. Right now LE probably needs TH to tell them where Kyron's body is.

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:47 PM
Talking about the working out comment of FB.

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:48 PM
ZING NG Says she's obviously not bodybuilding anymore.

winterrose
06-29-2010, 08:48 PM
So,now there's been a whole other can of worms opened and if she talks to the media,I'm sure we'll have about a bazillion more questions.It will be who was the abusive one,why would a child be hidden and who to believe.I think the older one will be alot of the key to information as to what was going on in the house.

PoppyH
06-29-2010, 08:49 PM
For real yes. I am English and we dont use that term over here..or not in that context anyhow.

My neighbor is british, he is awsome! Love the way he talks, Ok Back On topic:)

strawberry
06-29-2010, 08:49 PM
Yup, and by the time they are fit to live with they are usally married and living with someone els LOL Gotta love the teens:)

Thank you guys for giving me hope and making me feel better!

Emma Peel
06-29-2010, 08:50 PM
that is just WRONG.
"she hit the gym the day he went missing per her facebook".

naughty reporter. :whip:

lol - nancy comments on her appearance - well - she's not a body builder anymore

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:50 PM
th telling her friends that she is not a suspect and that LE is ON HER SIDE

Mark Klaas: you are dominated by fear and should not be weighing sides and going to the gym and posting at facebook.... trying to tap down the fear

Kevin Miller: former body builder... told people on face book that LE told her to get on to normal life

KM: she was WORKING OUT DURING THE SEARCH to try and get on with her life (let me add.. she was not currently bodybuilding!!!!!) Nancy just comments on this

caller ruby has school been searched: nancy says good question.. WW: LE has assured that the search has been searched completrely

Mark Klaas: nancy says that TH doesn't look like current body builder that needs a workout. MK says: I cannot for the life of me believe that LE would say to go on with normal life.. for that point in time nothing is normal and everything changes.... nothing is the same and it never changes

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:51 PM
caller: are LE considering motive that her son was sent away?

Dr. taylor: we don't know

commercial break (but she has questions on this)

Ms Suzanne
06-29-2010, 08:52 PM
I'm thinking why did she send her son away.Did she pick Kaine over her son?Did Kaine Make her do it.I feel in IMHO maybe alot of people were bucking heads with Kaine?I will say about the SM 's body language.I did say from the beginning I felt there was not alot of emotion with her.But I also felt there was no emotion with Kaine.I feel they both need to looked at and I feel possibly they BOTH might know what happened to little Kyron.I do think everone needs to be looked at.I pray I am wrong.I am not attacking anyone.I just strongly honestly feel they both need to be looked at.I do trust the LE they are doing thier best to find this sweet little boy.

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 08:53 PM
Don't know if anyone's answered it, but J's been "living in Roseburg" since January. So six months.

Kimster
06-29-2010, 08:54 PM
th telling her friends that she is not a suspect and that LE is ON HER SIDE

Mark Klaas: you are dominated by fear and should not be weighing sides and going to the gym and posting at facebook.... trying to tap down the fear

Kevin Miller: former body builder... told people on face book that LE told her to get on to normal life

KM: she was WORKING OUT DURING THE SEARCH to try and get on with her life (let me add.. she was not currently bodybuilding!!!!!) Nancy just comments on this

caller ruby has school been searched: nancy says good question.. WW: LE has assured that the search has been searched completrely

Mark Klaas: nancy says that TH doesn't look like current body builder that needs a workout. MK says: I cannot for the life of me believe that LE would say to go on with normal life.. for that point in time nothing is normal and everything changes.... nothing is the same and it never changesBBM

When Mark said that, it almost seemed cruel that LE would say that to a grieving family. Was it the family that said that in the first place? We've known about that statement for a long time and I don't remember from where it was quoted!

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:56 PM
ng to kauffman: if he is wandering around could he still be alive: no.. cannot imagine

k: not being able to see.. no way

doc taylor: what is the motive to kill the child? thankfully not that frequent but not that common.. maybe depression etc..yadda yadda

2nd poy: lots of reasons

mark smith: I firmly believe in polygraphs

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 08:58 PM
Jeez, to be "such a great mom," Terri has NONE of her children nor her stepchild living with her right now.

I don't know why J left, but I'd be damned if I EVER would send my son away. My son goes, I go, or we work through the problems together.

Sad thing is, J is in such a good place right now, doing 4H stuff, camping, etc... but he's laid up with a broken leg... broke it last week falling off a horse. Poor kid... I hope he heals ok and that he doesn't have to go back to live with the female parental unit anytime soon.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 08:58 PM
BBM

When Mark said that, it almost seemed cruel that LE would say that to a grieving family. Was it the family that said that in the first place? We've known about that statement for a long time and I don't remember from where it was quoted!
terri said it somewhere in response to her gym trips/working out/etc. Most of this cannot be posted because it was on her facebook comments

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 09:00 PM
I'm thinking why did she send her son away.Did she pick Kaine over her son?Did Kaine Make her do it.I feel in IMHO maybe alot of people were bucking heads with Kaine?I will say about the SM 's body language.I did say from the beginning I felt there was not alot of emotion with her.But I also felt there was no emotion with Kaine.I feel they both need to looked at and I feel possibly they BOTH might know what happened to little Kyron.I do think everone needs to be looked at.I pray I am wrong.I am not attacking anyone.I just strongly honestly feel they both need to be looked at.I do trust the LE they are doing thier best to find this sweet little boy.

He is a 16 year old boy. Boys at that age can be very temperamental. They also dont react well to discipline as someone whose been a step mother to a 16 year old who had problams I can assure you that its not easy. However..in pictures taken of the family there is nothing to suggest that Kaine and J didnt get on. I dont think I can post here what the local said because they have took the discussion board down but i think if anything it was a case that Terri simply couldnt control the person her son was becoming and so sent him away.

Actually it also makes me wonder..if any allegations of abuse towards J or Kyron from Terri were actually from him.

jmo

AbbieNormal
06-29-2010, 09:00 PM
At that age all kids want to do is hang out with their friends and get a car of their own and be able to drive. Maybe since it has been reported he was having school troubles, his step dad (taking the fatherly role, as he should) said no car, no drivers license until your grades improve. Just guessing, maybe that's what started the "butting heads" and his being sent first to the grandparents and then on to live with his bio dad....JMO. Could be he had the "wrong group" of friends, have known many parents who sent their kds to live elsewhere to get them away from the wrong group of kids...just FYI.

SuziQ
06-29-2010, 09:04 PM
Jeez, to be "such a great mom," Terri has NONE of her children nor her stepchild living with her right now.

I don't know why J left, but I'd be damned if I EVER would send my son away. My son goes, I go, or we work through the problems together.

Sad thing is, J is in such a good place right now, doing 4H stuff, camping, etc... but he's laid up with a broken leg... broke it last week falling off a horse. Poor kid... I hope he heals ok and that he doesn't have to go back to live with the female parental unit anytime soon.

BBM. I did not know that. Poor kid is right. I hope he has a great support system now.

AnaTeresa
06-29-2010, 09:04 PM
atty says it is serious things when you take bio kid from bio mom... entered ex parte.. so it is based on FACTUAL STATEMENT.. not entered willy nilly because THERE IS NO DEFENSE PUT ON BY THE MOTHER BEFORE THE BABY IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE MOTHER... AND THIS IS A MAJOR DEVELOPMENT

I'm still in law school, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of "facts" as we know them in real life is a bit different than a statement of facts in court. Basically, KH's attorney drafted a statement of facts for the judge, but those facts are presented in a way that favors KH. Then, TMH's attorney gets a turn to dispute those facts. It appears, for whatever reason, that they weren't disputed. However, just because they are not disputed does not make them true.

The judge may only rule on the facts presented to him or her. Because TMH did not dispute the facts, his/her ruling is based on the statement of "facts" drafted by KH's attorney. How truthful they are is a matter of degree - and with the court documents sealed, there's no way to really sleuth out the situation from that angle.

Basically, it's a bit more complicated and biased than NG is portraying it to be.

passionflower
06-29-2010, 09:05 PM
a son 16, a stepson 7 and an 18 month daughter would be very time and energy consuming.
How old is TH???

4BB
06-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Ugh, missed it...is there another site where I can watch it?

cloudajo
06-29-2010, 09:08 PM
BBM

When Mark said that, it almost seemed cruel that LE would say that to a grieving family. Was it the family that said that in the first place? We've known about that statement for a long time and I don't remember from where it was quoted!

Capt. Mike Shults, who has worked closely with the Horman family, explained that the family members hadn't participated in the ground search for Kyron because investigators had asked them to remain in one place so they could be easily reached. His comments came after Terri Moulton Horman (http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/terri%20moulton%20horman/index.html), Kyron's stepmother, was criticized on some online outlets for posting on her Facebook page, including saying she was "hitting the gym" shortly after Kyron disappeared.

Shults said he had asked family members to maintain their regular routines in an effort to stay healthy once it became apparent that the search for Kyron wouldn't be resolved quickly.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/rumor_mill_in_kyron_horman_dis.html

Lavender
06-29-2010, 09:10 PM
BBM

When Mark said that, it almost seemed cruel that LE would say that to a grieving family. Was it the family that said that in the first place? We've known about that statement for a long time and I don't remember from where it was quoted!

The Captain staying with the family said in a press conference that they (LE) had asked the family to go about normal activities. It was during the press conference where he (the Captain staying with them) was reading the family's answers to questions asked by reporters. It came directly from LE that LE had asked them to do normal things.

Is that what you mean?

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:10 PM
I guess I just don't get it. To me, with J, the problem isn't him as much as it is the environment he's had to live in. Being dragged in and out of marriages, having his name changed, adopted, another divorce, then disposable when he has problems that many teens face....

I don't think the kid ever had much of a chance. Until his mother has a stable life, how can he be expected to?

At least he has a semblance of stability in his life now, with the father that Terri took him from. I hope it all works out for him and that he gets the help he most likely needs, given the instability he's been raised in.

winterrose
06-29-2010, 09:11 PM
Jeez, to be "such a great mom," Terri has NONE of her children nor her stepchild living with her right now.

I don't know why J left, but I'd be damned if I EVER would send my son away. My son goes, I go, or we work through the problems together.

Sad thing is, J is in such a good place right now, doing 4H stuff, camping, etc... but he's laid up with a broken leg... broke it last week falling off a horse. Poor kid... I hope he heals ok and that he doesn't have to go back to live with the female parental unit anytime soon.

Well,in all honesty,even though I feel he was hidden,in abuse situations,I've known many fathers who get custody,because they have good jobs and are legal savy.And wives can't prove abuse,so this is all going to get very interesting on who,what and why.KWIM

Ms Suzanne
06-29-2010, 09:11 PM
He is a 16 year old boy. Boys at that age can be very temperamental. They also dont react well to discipline as someone whose been a step mother to a 16 year old who had problams I can assure you that its not easy. However..in pictures taken of the family there is nothing to suggest that Kaine and J didnt get on. I dont think I can post here what the local said because they have took the discussion board down but i think if anything it was a case that Terri simply couldnt control the person her son was becoming and so sent him away.

Actually it also makes me wonder..if any allegations of abuse towards J or Kyron from Terri were actually from him.

jmo
Oh I know about teenage kids.I had 4 teenage boys.I think the problem may possibly have really been with Kaine.I'd like to hear this boys side of the story.

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:13 PM
Well,in all honesty,even though I feel he was hidden,in abuse situations,I've known many fathers who get custody,because they have good jobs and are legal savy.And wives can't prove abuse,so this is all going to get very interesting on who,what and why.KWIM

Yeah. I'm almost afraid to hear what will come next.

cypress
06-29-2010, 09:13 PM
The judge sealed the RO to protect the investigation. IMO, this is not about that DUI from years ago. The FAPA law also states abuse/threat withing the past 180 days. It is not beneficial to arrest someone before they have all the evidence ready to go to trial. To do so would cause the perp to lawyer up and shut up. Time is on LE's side the best scenario is to get a confession and location of Kyron. Right now LE probably needs TH to tell them where Kyron's body is.

So then Kaine knew about child abuse and let it slide?

I firmly believe, no matter how this unfolds, disturbing facts about Kaine are going to rise to the surface.

Not directed at you, but a lot of people have stated that they believe they're missing the obvious elephant in the room, and I think it's Kaine.

Some event or series of events led to Desiree Young leaving Kaine when she was near her due date with Kyron, and something about Kaine and his behavior caused her to take out a RO. Now we're hearing that Terri's 16 y/o son may have butted heads with him? Also, in the news conferences, he hasn't been very emotive, either.

In da Middle
06-29-2010, 09:13 PM
What teenager vs parent figure doesn't "butt heads"? I can't think of any of my friends or myself that won't say they didn't butt heads with their parents nor will they say they their teenagers and them don't butt heads now.

4BB
06-29-2010, 09:15 PM
Ugh, missed it...is there another site where I can watch it?

Ive searched google, youtube and ustream. Any suggestions? Thanks!

DeeMarie
06-29-2010, 09:15 PM
My step mother got rid of me and my sister. This is so she could have just her daughter and our dad and no one else in the house.
She exaggerated our behavior issues to get rid of us.
My sister and I were placed in separate foster care.
If that was Terri's goal I guess it did not work out because now her daughter and husband are both gone.
I pray for Kyron.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 09:16 PM
So then Kaine knew about child abuse and let it slide?

I firmly believe, no matter how this unfolds, disturbing facts about Kaine are going to rise to the surface.

Not directed at you, but a lot of people have stated that they believe they're missing the obvious elephant in the room, and I think it's Kaine.

Some event or series of events led to Desiree Young leaving Kaine when she was near her due date with Kyron, and something about Kaine and his behavior caused her to take out a RO. Now we're hearing that Terri's 16 y/o son may have butted heads with him? Also, in the news conferences, he hasn't been very emotive, either.
we don't know anything yet. but I weigh in as firmly not thinking that is what happened

Janeumayer
06-29-2010, 09:17 PM
Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

NG: how many of us drop our kids off at school thinking they will be okay. On that day at the bus stop,,, they both picked him up.. did she arrange that or was it normal practice

reporter: no not normal: not sure if th asked him to go

how do you know (ng) not normal practice:? he hasn't said it wasn't

reporter: it was unusual that day that he stayed and worked at home

What is he basing this info on? If it is true then I still suspect KH...

JMO

winterrose
06-29-2010, 09:18 PM
And why would someone give thier child to another family member,for safety or thier own interests.And who is strict enough to train a child to sleep 12 hours and still stay in bed till someone goes to get them.

cypress
06-29-2010, 09:18 PM
we don't know anything yet. but I weigh in as firmly not thinking that is what happened

Oh, I don't think Kaine hurt Kyron, but I don't think he's an innocent party in this situation, either.

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 09:20 PM
Oh I know about teenage kids.I had 4 teenage boys.I think the problem may possibly have really been with Kaine.I'd like to hear this boys side of the story.

I am sure the police have heard his side of the story. And still its Terri they are focussing on. NOT Kaine.

MOO

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:20 PM
This whole case is a frenched-up nightmare.

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 09:22 PM
So then Kaine knew about child abuse and let it slide?

I firmly believe, no matter how this unfolds, disturbing facts about Kaine are going to rise to the surface.

Not directed at you, but a lot of people have stated that they believe they're missing the obvious elephant in the room, and I think it's Kaine.

Some event or series of events led to Desiree Young leaving Kaine when she was near her due date with Kyron, and something about Kaine and his behavior caused her to take out a RO. Now we're hearing that Terri's 16 y/o son may have butted heads with him? Also, in the news conferences, he hasn't been very emotive, either.

Not necessarily. I am pretty positive the police would have asked J why he left home and I personally think HE has made claims of abuse against his mother that maybe Kaine didnt know about til recently.

MOO

Pensfan
06-29-2010, 09:23 PM
I'm still in law school, so someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea of "facts" as we know them in real life is a bit different than a statement of facts in court. Basically, KH's attorney drafted a statement of facts for the judge, but those facts are presented in a way that favors KH. Then, TMH's attorney gets a turn to dispute those facts. It appears, for whatever reason, that they weren't disputed. However, just because they are not disputed does not make them true.

The judge may only rule on the facts presented to him or her. Because TMH did not dispute the facts, his/her ruling is based on the statement of "facts" drafted by KH's attorney. How truthful they are is a matter of degree - and with the court documents sealed, there's no way to really sleuth out the situation from that angle.

Basically, it's a bit more complicated and biased than NG is portraying it to be.
If Terri has an arrest record or if the judge is knowledgeable about filicide/suicide statistics or if LE officers that stayed with the Horman's saw anything resembling negligence/boozing/abuse/etc..., Kaine wouldn't need to bring any other facts with him to get a RO signed. The judge must err on the side of protecting the toddler and Terri has the right in 5 days to take action against this RO.

AbbieNormal
06-29-2010, 09:24 PM
And why would someone give thier child to another family member,for safety or thier own interests.And who is strict enough to train a child to sleep 12 hours and still stay in bed till someone goes to get them.


ITA with that one, which I thought sounded STRANGE when Kaine said it. Seven years old and wakes up and stays in his bed UNTIL SOMEONE COMES AND GETS HIM? That, imo, is not natural 7 year old behavior. I do believe he was "trained" to be that way. Makes me wonder many things about what was going on in that home, that's for sure. JMO

abbie

Amster
06-29-2010, 09:26 PM
Oh I know about teenage kids.I had 4 teenage boys.I think the problem may possibly have really been with Kaine.I'd like to hear this boys side of the story.

Is there something that makes you believe that LE haven't investigated Kaine?

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:27 PM
I would suppose that Kaine has also had a polygraph, since he was off work that day.

Seems like I recall that someone posted that Kaine filed for divorce and the RO on the advise of the police? I've never known police to give legal advice, though. Indeed, most won't even suggest a course of action in a civil dispute--and will clearly tell you that they aren't allowed to do so.

So I'm wondering if Kaine is "cleared" by police yet. I have thought all along that he at the least was an accessory after the fact. This divorce/RO thing definitely causes me to second guess my earlier opinion. Ugh.

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:28 PM
If Terri has an arrest record or if the judge is knowledgeable about filicide/suicide statistics or if LE officers that stayed with the Horman's saw anything resembling negligence/boozing/abuse/etc..., Kaine wouldn't need to bring any other facts with him to get a RO signed. The judge must err on the side of protecting the toddler and Terri has the right in 5 days to take action against this RO.

She has to act within 30 days, but once she acts, the hearing must be held within five days, and sometimes immediately after she files papers contesting the RO.

Hi, by the way. :wave:

winterrose
06-29-2010, 09:29 PM
I am sure the police have heard his side of the story. And still its Terri they are focussing on. NOT Kaine.

MOO

I'm sure they're looking at the past history of KH and DY,KH and TH,also alot on the older child.But thier interest is finding Kyron and I think maybe that's why they said that statement today.To me it was saying there is family problems,but not thier department.

cluciano63
06-29-2010, 09:29 PM
Has it been verified that the older child was abused in some way?

I know my 16-yr old nephew moved in with his dad for a while when he did not like his stepdad's rules...he moved back not long after. It happens all the time.

Tiki
06-29-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't think the judge would issue an RO without some kind of proof of abuse - evidence or sworn statement from a party close to the family. I don't believe KH's word alone would be enough.

shelbar53
06-29-2010, 09:30 PM
Ive searched google, youtube and ustream. Any suggestions? Thanks!

here is a link where you can get the transcripts of her show.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:30 PM
Has it been verified that the older child was abused in some way?

I know my 16-yr old nephew moved in with his dad for a while when he did not like his stepdad's rules...he moved back not long after. It happens all the time.

NO...

Ms Suzanne
06-29-2010, 09:31 PM
Is there something that makes you believe that LE haven't investigated Kaine?
I hope they did and keep doing it.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 09:31 PM
sorry about my insensitivity toward our English friends: re: butting heads.

I was transcribing so fast! Sorry! Butting heads means having differences or not seeing eye to eye or not getting along. Sorry for that!!!!! I lived in Europe for six years but I was transcribing so fast I thought your comment was in English.. sorry again

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:31 PM
I don't think the judge would issue an RO without some kind of proof of abuse - evidence or sworn statement from a party close to the family. I don't believe KH's word alone would be enough.

The judge has to be convinced that abuse has happened in the past six months or that there is imminent danger. So it doesn't just cover abuse that HAS happened.

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:34 PM
Here is the application packet for filing for the FAPA Restraining Order. Explains everything.

http://www.oregon.gov/Lane/docs/FAPA_Packet.03-10.pdf

Ok... I gotta log off before I get sucked into the Horman vortex again tonight. Hope everyone has a good night.

winterrose
06-29-2010, 09:34 PM
Maybe the judge issued it because they have proof who had a hand in Kyron's disappearance,more than we know,obviously,but to keep either child from disappearing again.I mean once Kyron is brought home or found.

Pensfan
06-29-2010, 09:35 PM
I don't think Kaine got a RO against Terri because Terri was acting "mentally unstable". I strongly believe it was for some other reason. If Terri had been acting "mentally unstable" in the Horman's home, Kaine could have called an ambulance or LE and had her involuntarily committed to a locked psych unit for several days. This would have been much easier than moving out with the toddler.

pufnstuf
06-29-2010, 09:37 PM
Maybe the judge issued it because they have proof who had a hand in Kyron's disappearance,more than we know,obviously,but to keep either child from disappearing again.I mean once Kyron is brought home or found.

I would think that may be so, winterrose. It would explain it being sealed, for sure. We know that there are investigative details in it, and that's why it was sealed, IIRC. So my guess would be that--even though the public hasn't learned that Terri is a POI yet--the judge found out in that hearing for the RO on Monday. Possible that an investigator testified at the RO hearing.

Chili Fries
06-29-2010, 09:39 PM
This whole case is a frenched-up nightmare.

Maybe, maybe not. It seemed that way in the Venus Stewart case too when LE asked for the public's help in finding an imposter who established an alibi for her estranged husband, Doug Stewart. Supposedly the imposter went around Newport News Virginia impersonating Doug while Doug was really in Michigan abducting and killing Venus. At the time many thought LE had lost it but it turned out they were right and found the fake Doug, who is now testifying against him.

In this case I think there is a good chance LE has uncovered compelling evidence that we don't know about. The cellphone ping story has been out there a long time and the fact that we really haven't heard any new leaks makes me think more that they are doing a great job of keeping a tight lid on leaks than that they haven't found anything new.

Also, with regards to J, he might provide key insight into the family but his moving out may have nothing or very little to do with Kyron's disappearance, if Terri is responsible.

nursebeeme
06-29-2010, 09:40 PM
Maybe the judge issued it because they have proof who had a hand in Kyron's disappearance,more than we know,obviously,but to keep either child from disappearing again.I mean once Kyron is brought home or found.
1) how would this apply/commute to babyK?

2) why wasn't teen so included in the RO/children she cannot see?

3) I would think the judge would require specific info for the case presented by an atty in documents that are acceptable in court. Fact is.. Kaine FILED the paperwork.. so his atty has to have filed the info to support this claim. jmhoo. It was exparte which means TH, with the ruling being exparte, means it was ruled that TH has no further contact with her baby without any testimony by her whatsoever! This is huge! What is that evidence?

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 09:43 PM
sorry about my insensitivity toward our English friends: re: butting heads.

I was transcribing so fast! Sorry! Butting heads means having differences or not seeing eye to eye or not getting along. Sorry for that!!!!! I lived in Europe for six years but I was transcribing so fast I thought your comment was in English.. sorry again

Erm my comment WAS in English lol

But in all honesty I dont see the big deal if a 16 year old doesnt get on with there step parent at times. I have a 16 yr old step daughter who doesnt get on with her own mother. Its just the phase they go through and I do think J must have some issues with the way his childhood has been.

Janeumayer
06-29-2010, 09:45 PM
Ive searched google, youtube and ustream. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Wait till the transcripts come out or watch it later tonight.

winterrose
06-29-2010, 09:45 PM
1) how would this apply/commute to babyK?

2) why wasn't teen so included in the RO/children she cannot see?

3) I would think the judge would require specific info for the case presented by an atty in documents that are acceptable in court. Fact is.. Kaine FILED the paperwork.. so his atty has to have filed the info to support this claim. jmhoo. It was exparte which means TH, with the ruling being exparte, means it was ruled that TH has no further contact with her baby without any testimony by her whatsoever! This is huge! What is that evidence?

Kaine is not the legal father of the older child and doesn't live with them.If one child disappears,they don't want the other one to or TH leave with her.

oceanblueeyes
06-29-2010, 09:45 PM
Has it been verified that the older child was abused in some way?

I know my 16-yr old nephew moved in with his dad for a while when he did not like his stepdad's rules...he moved back not long after. It happens all the time.

Not that I am aware of cluciano so I really don't even know where this is coming from. My in laws had 2 of their grandchildren come to live with them at the age of 16. They didn't have abusive parents whatsoever but they begged their parents until they let them go live there because my in laws has a big farm and both were really into riding and roping horses, animals and just loved the farm life so much more than the city and the much bigger schools.

They lived there until one was 18 and left for college and the other one stayed until she was 21 until she got married.

Now since Js grandparents were older maybe his bio father too has land and horses so Terri contacted him because J may have mentioned that he would like to see his bio dad more and live with him instead because he would be a younger man and probably more active in what J liked to do. Such as Boy Scouts and horse back riding.

IMO

Lavender
06-29-2010, 09:45 PM
The show really annoyed me.

1. Lots of mis-quotes, such as the "last to see Kyron ALIVE", which Captain Gates never said.

2. Body language analysis only focused on the first appearance of the family. What about the 2nd appearance where the mothers were holding hands? If they are going to do this type of analysis, I think they should include an analysis of that as well. Otherwise, it just gives the impression that they are only focusing on interactions that support their theories. Analyze ALL of it if you're going to analyze it.

3. Didn't like her comment about the body building. I'm okay with discussing it when it's in a context involving a case-relevant medical issue or motive, but it seemed like she was just making an unseemly comment about her looks without tying the comment to anything relevant to the case.

4. Why all the yelling? Use your indoor voice.

Just seemed too heavy on interpretation and light on facts.

Ms Suzanne
06-29-2010, 09:55 PM
The show really annoyed me.

1. Lots of mis-quotes, such as the "last to see Kyron ALIVE", which Captain Gates never said.

2. Body language analysis only focused on the first appearance of the family. What about the 2nd appearance where the mothers were holding hands? If they are going to do this type of analysis, I think they should include an analysis of that as well. Otherwise, it just gives the impression that they are only focusing on interactions that support their theories. Analyze ALL of it if you're going to analyze it.

3. Didn't like her comment about the body building. I'm okay with discussing it when it's in a context involving a case-relevant medical issue or motive, but it seemed like she was just making an unseemly comment about her looks without tying the comment to anything relevant to the case.

4. Why all the yelling? Use your indoor voice.

Just seemed too heavy on interpretation and light on facts.

Quote
4. Why all the yelling? Use your indoor voice.

LOL :rolling:

Beyond Belief
06-29-2010, 09:59 PM
Complain about Nancy Grace here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71889)

.........and not on this thread. Thanks!
Ditto on what Kimster said.

4BB
06-29-2010, 10:01 PM
Do you all know if it will be streamed on the same channel at 10pm eastern (now?) I really want to watch it. Thanks

amysmom
06-29-2010, 10:01 PM
They said on the show a part of the RO includes banning TH from "firearms"..Is this a typical condition of all ROs?

Also, has this already been reported today? I haven't read the RO thread yet so I'm guessing (if so) it's in there but in the meantime can I get an answer?..TIA!

amysmom
06-29-2010, 10:05 PM
Also, with regards to J, he might provide key insight into the family but his moving out may have nothing or very little to do with Kyron's disappearance, if Terri is responsible.

sbm

It could go to 'motive' in the mind of the mother IF she felt her son was mistreated by hubby & IF she was against his moving out.

Amster
06-29-2010, 10:16 PM
Do you all know if it will be streamed on the same channel at 10pm eastern (now?) I really want to watch it. Thanks

Yes....HLN

For The Kids
06-29-2010, 10:20 PM
sbm

It could go to 'motive' in the mind of the mother IF she felt her son was mistreated by hubby & IF she was against his moving out.

No offence but Terri had divorced two husbands already and if she was that worried about her son possibly being mistreated..well she could have divorced another one.

I really dont think Terri had a problem with Kaine. I do think she had a problem with Kyron though.

Dee10
06-30-2010, 01:05 AM
Transcript of show:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/29/ng.01.html

Wendy101
06-30-2010, 01:06 AM
I was jsut watching NG.. and she says.. "terri horman, the last person to see Kyron alive" ... I wanna know WHO seen him dead????