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View Full Version : What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?


oxymoran
07-02-2010, 07:37 PM
I would like to be able to reasonably conclude that its highly unlikely Kaine was involved in Kyron's disappearance. So far, I can’t find many reported facts to reduce the possibility of Kaine’s involvement.

The media is clearly pointing the finger of suspicion at Terri Horman and not at Kaine. It seems this pattern started early when the media applied a double standard in its reporting of Terri and Kaine’s joint work out at the gym. The media used this as an indication of Terri’s indifference to Kyron’s disappearance, while seemingly giving Kaine a pass.

As a university graduate and software engineer, Kaine would likely have “branch-predicted” (his expression) that the finger of suspicion would quickly fall on the "step"- mother, especially as she was the person who “dropped Kyron off.”

What bugs me is why Kaine stated in his email to Intel colleagues on June 6 (http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7)that Kyron was “dropped off at school at 8.45am”…when this is inconsistent with other people seeing him at school as early as 8.15 am.

Moreover in the same email, how did Kaine know the child “went missing between (8.45) and 9 to 9.30am?”

LE will have presumably verified Kaine’s arrival at Intel that Friday. I wonder if his arrival at Intel was early enough to rule out Kaine if the child went missing at 8.15, and not at 9am as they first thought based on the alleged sighting of Kyron’s desk-mate. (School to Intel campus is about 8 to 9 miles per Google Maps - see Kyron reference forum for maps)

I also wonder if LE have been able to verify that Kayne was present at Intel all morning. And how would Kaine be able to provide himself with an alibi for his drive home?

What facts am I missing that in your opinion make Kaine’s involvement highly unlikely?

Ms Suzanne
07-02-2010, 07:59 PM
I feel strongly he could possibly be involved.The presser today said no one is ruled out as a suspect.I will say Everything Terri the step mom had access too,Cars,computers,cell phones,house,school,Kyron ect.....( Everything )Kaine the father had access to too.Maybe they were together when and if something happened to little Kyron.IMHO

Hopefully everyone is being looked into to find little Kyron.

socalgal2
07-02-2010, 08:03 PM
With all due respect, I thought that unless someone was named etc in the MSM or LE per TOS of WS, as being looked at like TH has been, the family is to be treated as the victims.:angel:


I pray with all my heart everday that Kyron will be reunited with his family soon.:praying::praying::praying::praying:

ETA: It is IMHO that the other family members whereabouts were looked into and verified early on.

Pocono Sleuther
07-02-2010, 08:06 PM
I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to start this thread. It's normal sleuthing to systematically check up on all people associated with the missing person. So far in this case the only person we have forcused on , along with LE, is TH. BUT what do we have to go on with Kaine? Well we know he was working on that Friday but that he was also home early enough to accompany TH to the bus stop. As for the email he sent out, I'm assuming (yes I know) he was relaying information he got from TH? I'm concerned, at this point, with the control issue I feel Kaine has shown (media etc). Perhaps there is more to look into with him. Should we make a list of things we want to know and then start looking into it? Something to go on as an outline first might be easier then we can break it down to find information to back it up?

Great thread btw. :)

scandi
07-02-2010, 08:11 PM
I would like to be able to reasonably conclude that its highly unlikely Kaine was involved in Kyron's disappearance. So far, I can’t find many reported facts to reduce the possibility of Kaine’s involvement.

The media is clearly pointing the finger of suspicion at Terri Horman and not at Kaine. It seems this pattern started early when the media applied a double standard in its reporting of Terri and Kaine’s joint work out at the gym. The media used this as an indication of Terri’s indifference to Kyron’s disappearance, while seemingly giving Kaine a pass.

As a university graduate and software engineer, Kaine would likely have “branch-predicted” (his expression) that the finger of suspicion would quickly fall on the "step"- mother, especially as she was the person who “dropped Kyron off.”

What bugs me is why Kaine stated in his email to Intel colleagues on June 6 (http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7)that Kaine was “dropped off at school at 8.45am”…when this is inconsistent with other people seeing him at school as early as 8.15 am.

Moreover in the same email, how did Kaine know the child “went missing between (8.45) and 9 to 9.30am?”

LE will have presumably verified Kaine’s arrival at Intel that Friday. I wonder if his arrival at Intel was early enough to rule out Kaine if the child went missing at 8.15, and not at 9am as they first thought based on the alleged sighting of Kyron’s desk-mate. (School to Intel campus is about 8 to 9 miles per Google Maps - see Kyron reference forum for maps)

I also wonder if LE have been able to verify that Kayne was present at Intel all morning. And how would Kaine be able to provide himself with an alibi for his drive home?

What facts am I missing that in your opinion make Kaine’s involvement highly unlikely?


Thanks for this. First, I think you meant 'Kyron was dropped off . ., instead of Kaine. LOL

I would ask what car he was driving. There are many possibilities depending on what time he would have left for the office and what time TH returned home. But if he left soon after TH and she was driving the truck that means he was driving the Mustang.

Now I don't have a link so throw out some salt. But it has been said by several that TH was seen driving the Musting on SI that morning. We know that Kaine worked at home in the afternoon. What time he returned home is ???

That means TH would have had to return to the house to change cars in the morning. That puts me in limbo as this is something we don't know. We do know she was on the internet at 1pm on but that could have been from her cellie, right?

It is also very interesting about his email, saying Kyron went missing between 9 and 9:30. I don't know what LE has confirmed about that. The moment I read his email I thought it was going to come back to haunt him. IMO


Well, it's a start.

Pocono Sleuther
07-02-2010, 08:12 PM
With all due respect, I thought that unless someone was named etc in the MSM or LE per TOS of WS, as being looked at like TH has been, the family is to be treated as the victims.:angel:


I pray with all my heart everday that Kyron will be reunited with his family soon.:praying::praying::praying::praying:


I defnitely feel the family should be treated with respect and treated as victims. But we also need to rule out anyone with a relationship/access to Kyron. Especially someone as close as his dad. I don't think we're doing anything disrespectful by simply backing up a few facts and issues. It's no different than what LE would do. And not much different from what TH is going through. She has possibly been involved in some misleading information w le etc...but nothing has really been stated as FACT by LE. And nothing has been stated as FACT by LE with Kaine either. I see it as just ruling someone out. This is a very tough and confusing case with many twists. While I don't condone TH possibly not being open with LE, it does take two (or more) in a marriage for problems/issues to erupt. Let's just take a look at both sides. :angel:

scandi
07-02-2010, 08:13 PM
I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to start this thread. It's normal sleuthing to systematically check up on all people associated with the missing person. So far in this case the only person we have forcused on , along with LE, is TH. BUT what do we have to go on with Kaine? Well we know he was working on that Friday but that he was also home early enough to accompany TH to the bus stop. As for the email he sent out, I'm assuming (yes I know) he was relaying information he got from TH? I'm concerned, at this point, with the control issue I feel Kaine has shown (media etc). Perhaps there is more to look into with him. Should we make a list of things we want to know and then start looking into it? Something to go on as an outline first might be easier then we can break it down to find information to back it up?

Great thread btw. :)

Me too, although I thought we were told not to sleuth family members. We need to clarify that it is within TOS - especially since we are posting here. :eek:

grandmaj
07-02-2010, 08:17 PM
This thread is closed for review.

We are not sleuthing family members. We can discuss information released by the main stream media regarding TH only at this time.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Threadiquette & Forum Rules Updates ~ Ask Your Questions Here

Kimster
07-02-2010, 10:44 PM
Kaine is off limits for sleuthing but not for discussing his behavior.

We sleuth case players all the time. What we do differently is we do not allow sleuthing of just anyone and we do not allow personal info to be posted that is not in any sense related to the case.

Be sure that information you provide in your posts can be backed up with MSM links. We are not allowed to bash or make wild assumptions about this family. They deserve the benefit of the doubt that they are grieving about Kyron more than any one of us.

Wendy101
07-02-2010, 11:07 PM
IMO Kaines behavious is just as ODD as Terris is.... please let's all remember Kaine also "hit the gym" with Terri.... not that I find that odd personally, but I do know alot of readers of this case have a problem with Terri "hitting the gym".

His email was very controlling.

His request of the media is very controlling.

GrainneDhu
07-02-2010, 11:16 PM
I would like to be able to reasonably conclude that its highly unlikely Kaine was involved in Kyron's disappearance. So far, I can’t find many reported facts to reduce the possibility of Kaine’s involvement.

The media is clearly pointing the finger of suspicion at Terri Horman and not at Kaine. It seems this pattern started early when the media applied a double standard in its reporting of Terri and Kaine’s joint work out at the gym. The media used this as an indication of Terri’s indifference to Kyron’s disappearance, while seemingly giving Kaine a pass.

As a university graduate and software engineer, Kaine would likely have “branch-predicted” (his expression) that the finger of suspicion would quickly fall on the "step"- mother, especially as she was the person who “dropped Kyron off.”

What bugs me is why Kaine stated in his email to Intel colleagues on June 6 (http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7)that Kaine was “dropped off at school at 8.45am”…when this is inconsistent with other people seeing him at school as early as 8.15 am.

Moreover in the same email, how did Kaine know the child “went missing between (8.45) and 9 to 9.30am?”

LE will have presumably verified Kaine’s arrival at Intel that Friday. I wonder if his arrival at Intel was early enough to rule out Kaine if the child went missing at 8.15, and not at 9am as they first thought based on the alleged sighting of Kyron’s desk-mate. (School to Intel campus is about 8 to 9 miles per Google Maps - see Kyron reference forum for maps)

I also wonder if LE have been able to verify that Kayne was present at Intel all morning. And how would Kaine be able to provide himself with an alibi for his drive home?

What facts am I missing that in your opinion make Kaine’s involvement highly unlikely?

Wow, I hadn't put it all together that way. I don't know of anything that refutes your points but that is mostly because LE has not released much info at all.

If they verified that KH was at Intel, I also wonder how they did so. Was it based just on his computer activity or was it based on witness reports?

I ask because I have a friend who is a tech guy. He had to once verify that another employee was actually on the premises working for an internal investigation (not a criminal investigation). At first, the other employee looked fine. His computer showed Web activity during the periods they were investigating. That was appropriate because his job entailed a lot of Web activity.

But my friend got a little itchy about it all. Something about it just didn't feel right. So he did some more looking and discovered that the employee had written a little program that pinged certain websites on a random schedule of minutes (chosen between something like 1 minute and 15 minutes). All this activity looked legit but once they examined what the employee's actual activity was, it all fell apart.

It turned out that the guy was logging onto his work computer, turning on his little program and then going to get a couple hours' extra sleep in his office closet.

Wendy101
07-02-2010, 11:19 PM
I have no facts point that Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance...there are some questionable actions that point to his involvement though..IMO..

CathyinTexas
07-02-2010, 11:22 PM
Thanks for this. First, I think you meant 'Kyron was dropped off . ., instead of Kaine. LOL

I would ask what car he was driving. There are many possibilities depending on what time he would have left for the office and what time TH returned home. But if he left soon after TH and she was driving the truck that means he was driving the Mustang.

Now I don't have a link so throw out some salt. But it has been said by several that TH was seen driving the Musting on SI that morning. We know that Kaine worked at home in the afternoon. What time he returned home is ???

That means TH would have had to return to the house to change cars in the morning. That puts me in limbo as this is something we don't know. We do know she was on the internet at 1pm on but that could have been from her cellie, right?

It is also very interesting about his email, saying Kyron went missing between 9 and 9:30. I don't know what LE has confirmed about that. The moment I read his email I thought it was going to come back to haunt him. IMO


Well, it's a start.

Was there ever an explanation given by the media as to why the two switched vehicles that morning? It has been speculated on here that Terri needed the truck to transport Kyron's project, I think. So, when were they supposed to switch vehicles again, if in fact they did. I think it is interesting that it was reported by media that a friend said Terri told her that she had done everything that Kaine had told her to do from the beginning of this case. I know that is hearsay, but so much we hear in the media is hearsay or totally erroneous information about this case. I agree with others that Kaine's behavior has been somewhat suspicious.

Emma Peel
07-02-2010, 11:23 PM
answering a part of Oxymoran's post:

I'm not particularly bothered by timeline issues in the June 6 e-mail on kaine's part. IMO, at that point, he's just writing what he's been told as of June 6th would be the likely timeline.

Kaine is told by Terri:
We arrived at school at 8:15. I spent about a 1/2 hour with him at the science fair and left him in the hallway of his classroom around 8:45. (Kaine, the engineer, equates this with "dropping off Kyron at 8:45".)

As for the 9-9:30 gone missing statement - these are probably the times initially worked out by the school and the parents and LE as their first take on putting a timeline together.

JMHO

Reannan
07-02-2010, 11:29 PM
There was something about Kaine's behavior during the first family press conference that didn't sit right with me. TH was glancing "furtively" around with her eyes and rubbing her arms for self-assurance with "I can do this, I can do this" behavior. Kaine seemed to be freaked out - but in a "I have to control this situation" kind of way. He just seemed more focused on making the presentation than on the fact Kyron was missing. It just struck me as odd. I apologize in advance if neither are involved in any way, but I learned a long time ago to never ignore my first feelings - that I can't ignore them.

Kimster
07-02-2010, 11:30 PM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

Ms Suzanne
07-02-2010, 11:31 PM
answering a part of Oxymoran's post:

I'm not particularly bothered by timeline issues in the June 6 e-mail on kaine's part. IMO, at that point, he's just writing what he's been told as of June 6th would be the likely timeline.

Kaine is told by Terri:
We arrived at school at 8:15. I spent about a 1/2 hour with him at the science fair and left him in the hallway of his classroom around 8:45. (Kaine, the engineer, equates this with "dropping off Kyron at 8:45".)

As for the 9-9:30 gone missing statement - these are probably the times initially worked out by the school and the parents and LE as their first take on putting a timeline together.

JMHO
Quote
As for the 9-9:30 gone missing statement


He said Kyron was missing 9- 9:30?

Emma Peel
07-02-2010, 11:43 PM
Quote
As for the 9-9:30 gone missing statement


He said Kyron was missing 9- 9:30?

see Oxymoran's original post here. I was quoting her. I just assumed she was looking at Kaine's June 6 e-mail when she quoted him.

Donjeta
07-02-2010, 11:52 PM
There have been some red flags in Kaine's press appearances for me that made me feel he wasn't being completely truthful, but I expect that some of them could be explained by him having doubts about his wife that he wasn't willing or able to disclose.

I suppose I just want to believe that LE has some kind of clue and so far it looks like they've focused on Terri, not Kaine. Maybe they could have planned something together but how long would she keep quiet about his role when she gets all the blame and the relationship turned sour?

I can more easily explain the divorce and the RO and the latest press conference on the basis of suspecting her but if he knew he did it all along and yet hopped on the blame Terri bandwagon that's pretty cold. If anybody plans to hurt his child and frame his spouse for it that is so diabolical I'm not willing to go there right now, not without evidence anyway.

Barry
07-03-2010, 12:03 AM
I honestly don't feel LE has cleared him or anyone else on this case. As for this weeks festivities, I think they have been watching from the sidelines with close interest.

My own personal opinion: Kaines behavior this week does not give me the warm fuzzies.

The precious few facts that anyone outside of LE are aware of right now, make it very hard to really clear or suspect anyone.

Emma Peel
07-03-2010, 12:16 AM
Some facts we've learned from interviews with national press with Kaine, and from LE provide timeline for Kaine vs. timeline for Kyron that day. We don't have every minute accounted for, but IMO, LE easily could have verified Kaine's timeline, based on what we do know about Kaine's day.

Today we learned for a fact from the LE presser that they've established that Kyron & Terri were both definitely at school that morning.

We don't have to worry about Kaine having caused Kyron's disappearance the day before, night before or morning before Kyron went to school. Because Kyron DID goe to school.

Kaine said goodbye to Kyron that morning at home and went to work. LE would be able to alibi Kaine for the morning through work witnesses - through the period of time where it is established Kyron went missing.

After working, (LE knows that time via Intel alibi) Kaine returned home where he was seen/alibied either by 1) Terri or 2) a babysitter perhaps? 3) cell pings, land line phone calls, internet use and work records of working from home.

My feeling is, it's likely Kaine's story & timeline matched with evidence of his timeline and LE took care of this some time ago. We don't know this for certain, but I think he might be far easier to track than Terri.

Ms Suzanne
07-03-2010, 12:22 AM
He said they went to the bus stop to pick up Kyron together with Terri? Did they come from the house or had they been somewhere else together before that? Was the baby with them?

butterfly1978
07-03-2010, 12:22 AM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

What she said, plus his body language and the fact that he was not posting "going to the gym" or poking people and smiling on facebook. The fact that LE has zeroed in on TH and has given no indication they suspect him or Desiree, none of these can be backed up by facts in a news paper article just clearly my own opinion.

wondering1
07-03-2010, 12:28 AM
Some facts we've learned from interviews with national press with Kaine, and from LE provide timeline for Kaine vs. timeline for Kyron that day. We don't have every minute accounted for, but IMO, LE easily could have verified Kaine's timeline, based on what we do know about Kaine's day.

Today we learned for a fact from the LE presser that they've established that Kyron & Terri were both definitely at school that morning.

We don't have to worry about Kaine having caused Kyron's disappearance the day before, night before or morning before Kyron went to school. Because Kyron DID goe to school.

Kaine said goodbye to Kyron that morning at home and went to work. LE would be able to alibi Kaine for the morning through work witnesses - through the period of time where it is established Kyron went missing.

After working, (LE knows that time via Intel alibi) Kaine returned home where he was seen/alibied either by 1) Terri or 2) a babysitter perhaps? 3) cell pings, land line phone calls, internet use and work records of working from home.

My feeling is, it's likely Kaine's story & timeline matched with evidence of his timeline and LE took care of this some time ago. We don't know this for certain, but I think he might be far easier to track than Terri.

ITA with this. Imo, the only way he could be involved is as a co-conspirator or an accessory before/after the fact -- in which case I think TH would be droppin' the dime on him by now (or maybe not until she gets a plea deal).

mtnone
07-03-2010, 12:30 AM
I don't have any problem with Kaine giving those times that first weekend. It wasn't until later that week we started getting nothing but 'no comment' when trying to confirm any of it. They were giving out that information pretty freely, then.

That he very clearly left out 'taken to school by my wife' and used, 'dropped off' shows something, just not sure what.

I agree that his time line should be very easy to prove and they will have done so.

That said, I will not be voting for Kaine in the most Mr. Congeniality award. The guy bugs me. Which is not illegal.

I do think he comes across very differently in many of the great photos TH took of dad and son. Complete change. That I do like. That he took down the poster photo of Kyron for Father's day and put up the one with the two of them and the snowman touched me.

Barry
07-03-2010, 12:34 AM
Can't quite find a thread for this to fit, but wanted to throw it out there. Imagine the compound tragedy here, if it were to turn out to be a stranger, and no family was involved whatsoever. But, due to existing infighting and lack of trust, we got what we saw this week.

At the very least, this thought is forcing me to examine my relationships within my family, where there might be tension or trust issues and thus a little fence mending might be in order. You never know when a tragedy might happen. It would be nice to think that a family has a strong enough foundation based on trust, that they could survive such an ordeal. Sorry about the sideshow...

pinkpuddytat
07-03-2010, 12:36 AM
I think the chance that he was involved is close to zero, as is the chance that *both* he and Terri plotted to arrange Kyron's disappearance.

Kaine is reported to have come home early from work meaning he was *at* work in the morning. This is so incredibly easy to verify that I'm absolutely sure LE verified it on Day One. Either a bunch of people saw him at Intel that morning, or they didn't. So we have to assume he was there. And the police questionnaire did not ask anyone of they'd seen Kaine in or around the school that day (presumably because they'd already solidly verified that he was at work at Intel during the entire relevant period).

A number of people saw Kyron and his stepmother at the school during the hour or so before 9:00 AM when the science fair projects were being set up. Terri says she last saw Kyron at school, in the hallway, around 8:45AM. Kids on the bus said he hadn't been at school all day. One child in Kyron's class (the one whose irresponsible grandmother had him talk to the media) said a teacher's aide noticed Kyron wasn't there right around the beginning of the sit-down class period, which was apparently around 10:00. According to early statements by police, the last known sighting of Kyron at school was Terri's (they haven't been very interested in confirming that subsequently, but they've basically given *no* new information since the very first day or two, so I don't read much into that).

So if Kaine was responsible, and not Terri (i.e. as opposed to the two of them plotting together), Kaine somehow had to get away from work shortly after he arrived there, without anyone noticing him missing, then get to the school and somehow get Kyron out of the school building and away from the grounds without anyone noticing him there. And he had a *very* short window in which to do this.

It's really, really far-fetched to suggest that Kaine could have been responsible, but Terri not been responsible. Theoretically, the two of them could have plotted together, and Kaine could be helping Terri cover up what happened, and that would have been plausible up until a couple of days ago -- applying for a restraining order against her is hardly consistent with that. If this was a joint plot, then he'd need her to cover for his involvement too, and getting a restraining order against her and the taking her baby away from her, doesn't seem likely to keep her interested in covering for him. And it's mighty difficult to imagine *why* Kaine would have wanted to plot with Terri to get rid of his own biological son. It seems pretty clear that Desiree would have been happy to take Kyron in, if Kaine and Terri decided they wanted to focus on the baby they'd recently had together.

wondering1
07-03-2010, 12:40 AM
That he very clearly left out 'taken to school by my wife' and used, 'dropped off' shows something, just not sure what.



sbm

I was thinking of how I refer to it when I actually take the kids into the school or merely drop them off. If I "drop them off" I might still say I "took" the kids to school. But if I actually go in, I don't say I dropped them off. Does that make sense?

Otoh, I'm the one actually doing the taking and dropping. Plus, precise language usage is a professional hazard of mine. So, in this case, since KH wasn't doing the actual "taking" or "dropping" it just might have been the word that came to his mind first. If he ever "takes" Kyron to school, maybe he does just "drop him off." oy...this case is making me crazy!!!!!

mtnone
07-03-2010, 12:41 AM
Well many have posted that "we know for sure that Terri was seen, in the red mustang, on Sauvie's Island," with the candlestick!

Yes, even saying that license numbers were called in (of course her red Mustang doesn't have any numbers, but I digress) and that it was seen driving very fast and recklessly with a pickup truck and that said pickup truck went into a ditch due to the speed.

I have not seen this anywhere but statements in comments from people that say they live on the island. So, no proof. It makes for great drama, but try fitting it into any scenario of what may have happened that morning. You think your head hurts now!

GrainneDhu
07-03-2010, 12:42 AM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

However, if he were the guilty party, wouldn't he do exactly the same thing in order to keep LE focused on TMH?

I'm not saying he's guilty.

butterfly1978
07-03-2010, 12:43 AM
I'm not trying to sidestep this thread, but since we are discussing Kaines behavior lets look at it this way. If Terri is responsible for Kyron missing, than indirectly so is Kaine, he brought Terri into his life and Kyrons life, can you imagine how he feels about that?
The day Kyron went missing his stepmom took him to the science fair not his dad, the last person to see him was not his bio-parent but a step parent, how do you think that makes him feel?
His ex-wife is Kyron's mom is crying and begging on National TV for his current wife to cooperate with LE in finding his son. Can you imagine how that feels?
I am sure that on top of the obvious Kyron being missing that Kaine feels guilty about all of the above, blaming himself and is probably in shock and numb. At this point I am sure he is just trying to survive.

mtnone
07-03-2010, 12:44 AM
sbm

I was thinking of how I refer to it when I actually take the kids into the school or merely drop them off. If I "drop them off" I might still say I "took" the kids to school. But if I actually go in, I don't say I dropped them off. Does that make sense?

Otoh, I'm the one actually doing the taking and dropping. Plus, precise language usage is a professional hazard of mine. So, in this case, since KH wasn't doing the actual "taking" or "dropping" it just might have been the word that came to his mind first. If he ever "takes" Kyron to school, maybe he does just "drop him off." oy...this case is making me crazy!!!!!

Yeah, maybe it shows some very early suspicion on his part, maybe it is just because he is writing a business related email, or maybe he is just very anal retentive. I guess it bugged me then because we knew she had taken him in and stayed awhile with him. That is what made it stand out. Now, not so much.

pinkpuddytat
07-03-2010, 12:47 AM
But my friend got a little itchy about it all. Something about it just didn't feel right. So he did some more looking and discovered that the employee had written a little program that pinged certain websites on a random schedule of minutes (chosen between something like 1 minute and 15 minutes). All this activity looked legit but once they examined what the employee's actual activity was, it all fell apart.

It turned out that the guy was logging onto his work computer, turning on his little program and then going to get a couple hours' extra sleep in his office closet.

It's very understandable how someone could pull off something like that while staying in the office building. But security is very tight at a place like Intel. Unlikely to be monitoring employees' whereabouts within the building at all times, but almost certainly monitoring entrance to the building, and video coverage of all exits. Remember, the FBI brought in specialists to this investigation by the second day. If there was any question as to Kaine's whereabouts during the morning hours of the day Kyron disappeared, the questionnaires sent out to parents and school staff would have included pictures of Kaine and asked whether anyone had seen him in or around the school at any time that day.

LE has simply shown no interest in Kaine at all, nor did it interfere with the judge issuing a restraining order requested by Kaine against Terri, which prohibited Terri from having any access to any of their children, and left him in physical control of their baby. If LE had *any* reason to believe that Kaine could possibly have been involved, I seriously doubt that they would have stood by and let him both get control of the baby and separate the baby from its mother.

Dr.Fessel
07-03-2010, 12:51 AM
I think this family has a secret.

I think that secret is so big the RO is nothing compared to it. It is not enough to make someone talk.

I think the grounds he got the RO were threats of suicide by TH.

I think she will get the child back in court.

pinkpuddytat
07-03-2010, 12:56 AM
There was something about Kaine's behavior during the first family press conference that didn't sit right with me. TH was glancing "furtively" around with her eyes and rubbing her arms for self-assurance with "I can do this, I can do this" behavior. Kaine seemed to be freaked out - but in a "I have to control this situation" kind of way. He just seemed more focused on making the presentation than on the fact Kyron was missing. It just struck me as odd. I apologize in advance if neither are involved in any way, but I learned a long time ago to never ignore my first feelings - that I can't ignore them.

If he already suspected at that point that Terri was responsible, then it wouldn't surprise me if he seemed "freaked out". He certainly knew that he was not free to say anything to that effect, and yet if that's what he was thinking, it was surely the number one thing on his mind. Plus I'm sure he (and Terri and Desiree and her husband) had been given a dizzying set of "don'ts" by LE, re details that should not be revealed in the press conference, and that would make anyone nervous, even it wasn't a situation where their thoughts were consumed with the recent disappearance of their child. Look what happened to the school principal when he said one "wrong" word in a press conference -- LE practically tackled him to get him away from the mike.

Dr.Fessel
07-03-2010, 01:00 AM
It's very understandable how someone could pull off something like that while staying in the office building. But security is very tight at a place like Intel. Unlikely to be monitoring employees' whereabouts within the building at all times, but almost certainly monitoring entrance to the building, and video coverage of all exits. Remember, the FBI brought in specialists to this investigation by the second day. If there was any question as to Kaine's whereabouts during the morning hours of the day Kyron disappeared, the questionnaires sent out to parents and school staff would have included pictures of Kaine and asked whether anyone had seen him in or around the school at any time that day.

LE has simply shown no interest in Kaine at all, nor did it interfere with the judge issuing a restraining order requested by Kaine against Terri, which prohibited Terri from having any access to any of their children, and left him in physical control of their baby. If LE had *any* reason to believe that Kaine could possibly have been involved, I seriously doubt that they would have stood by and let him both get control of the baby and separate the baby from its mother.

LE would not have been involved in the RO hearing, all it would take was Kaine testifying to the judge why he felt he needed to get the baby out of there. He would not need backup for his story at that point to get the emergency RO. Now when they do go to court on the RO she will be there and can testify and he could use any backup then.

razorback
07-03-2010, 01:07 AM
I think this family has a secret.

I think that secret is so big the RO is nothing compared to it. It is not enough to make someone talk.

I think the grounds he got the RO were threats of suicide by TH.

I think she will get the child back in court.

IF this is what happened or the reason for the RO then that would be considered a medical issue so that would give the justification not to release the 911 tapes.

Auramyst
07-03-2010, 01:08 AM
... Plus I'm sure he (and Terri and Desiree and her husband) had been given a dizzying set of "don'ts" by LE, re details that should not be revealed in the press conference, and that would make anyone nervous, even it wasn't a situation where their thoughts were consumed with the recent disappearance of their child. Look what happened to the school principal when he said one "wrong" word in a press conference -- LE practically tackled him to get him away from the mike.

I completely agree...

greenpalm
07-03-2010, 01:13 AM
Look what happened to the school principal when he said one "wrong" word in a press conference -- LE practically tackled him to get him away from the mike.
Edited to focus on my question.

LOL! Is there video of this? What did the principal say wrong? I must have missed it. The principal is Mr Benjamin, right? But we've mostly heard from PISD from, is it Matt Shelby, I believe?

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 01:14 AM
Here is proof that LE doesn't think Kaine is dangerous and therefore, was unlikely to have harmed his child:

A judge signed off on a restraining order allowing Kaine to be the only adult who has unrestricted parental rights to his toddler.

The judge could have ordered Child/Youth Services to put the toddler in protective custody when Kaine applied for a RO if LE had suggested that Kaine was dangerous to his children.

Haeve
07-03-2010, 01:26 AM
IF this is what happened or the reason for the RO then that would be considered a medical issue so that would give the justification not to release the 911 tapes.

I take it 911 tapes fall under HIPAA?

NewsMuse
07-03-2010, 01:33 AM
The email to his fellow employees and his body language during the pressers made me feel there could be control issues. (Wonder what Desiree could say about this?)

My ex was a control freak and verbally abusive, and I can usually spot the victims a mile away. (As a matter of fact, that used to be part of my job in patient counseling prior to a procedure -- the observation and documentation of signs of possible abuse. For example: I always spoke TO the patient and she might look at husband/s.o before answering or HE would answer for her.)

Not knowing any more than I know now and seeing the way TH acted in public during the pressers took me back and made me wonder if that was how I looked or acted in public with ex. I knew that when we left wherever we were, I would be lectured the whole way home on every single thing HE thought I did wrong.

I do believe TH knows much more but is afraid to speak out. It's interesting to remember that her own bio-son moved out 6-7 months ago. I remember 16-17 yo as the beginning of the "tough" years with the boys; and possibly with a step-dad who might be a control freak and maybe verbally abusive, someone (?) felt it was best for him to live elsewhere (especially if he was trying to stick up for his bio-mom). Again, just tossing stuff around and MOO.

There are so many other little nuances I observed during the pressers , but it could just be guilt. Or maybe Kyron's daddy thinks he's so much smarter than LE. I also wondered, well, it's a delicate topic -- TH's looks have changed a great deal since her body-building days. I just remember that being a huge issue with my ex, the lack of control he had over that part; thus the verbal abuse.

With the divorce papers and RO done and sealed in the manner they were, it makes me wonder if they were in the works for a while except to sign and date. An engineer is a planner. I wonder what info (besides the poly, I mean) came to light so suddenly to convince the judge to seal? Also is this info enough for a wiretap and some type of listening/recording devices in the home and also with bio-dad? I wouldn't think LE would rule out any of the immediate family (given what we know today).

Again, JMHO (am a bit biased on the control issues area). I just want Kyron home and def more time with his bio-mom if possible and appropriate.

Dr.Fessel
07-03-2010, 01:41 AM
Here is proof that LE doesn't think Kaine is dangerous and therefore, was unlikely to have harmed his child:

A judge signed off on a restraining order allowing Kaine to be the only adult who has unrestricted parental rights to his toddler.

The judge could have ordered Child/Youth Services to put the toddler in protective custody when Kaine applied for a RO if LE had suggested that Kaine was dangerous to his children.

Most cases LE has nothing to do with getting the initial emergency restraining order.

They probably never even knew he was doing that.

razorback
07-03-2010, 01:42 AM
I take it 911 tapes fall under HIPAA?

If it has anything to do with a medical issue yes.

PortlandMama
07-03-2010, 01:42 AM
I don't know if anyone remembers this , it may be nothing, or I may even have got it wrong. Im pretty sure it was the interview with DY and KH.

When KH said that he and TH went to the bus stop to get Kyron. Kyron didn't get off the bus. This is where Im unsure-- I thought I heard KH say that he began to walk to the school with the baby,(thinking that Kyron may have misunderstood and was waiting at the school) and realized TH was talking to the bus driver, the bus driver called the school, and then they ran home.

How far is the bus stop from the school ? How long would it take to walk there from the bus stop? Anyone find it strange that KH didn't panic at first but that it was TH that asked the driver to call the school?

I think this is what you're referring to: http://www.kgw.com/video/featured-videos/Raw-Kyrons-parents-talk-about-bus-stop-97168909.html

I interpreted it to mean he started walking with the baby up the road back to their house to get in the car to drive to the school, and as he overheard her talking to the bus driver he suddenly understood that Kyron was really missing altogether, not just waiting for them at the school in a misunderstanding about where they would leave from for their ice cream treat. So then he broke into a run toward the car in a panic. It would be a very, very long walk to the school from the house so I'm 99.9% sure that's not what he was referring to.

human
07-03-2010, 01:43 AM
[/B]

LE would not have been involved in the RO hearing, all it would take was Kaine testifying to the judge why he felt he needed to get the baby out of there. He would not need backup for his story at that point to get the emergency RO. Now when they do go to court on the RO she will be there and can testify and he could use any backup then.

I think if the judge sealed the RO because it might impact an investigation, the judge called LE. I don't think a judge would make a determination to take the three children from Terri's ability to see them unless he had a darn good reason.

txsvicki
07-03-2010, 01:46 AM
There doesn't seem to be anything that points to Kaine in the disappearance, but a few things have stood out as to what might have been going on in the home before. The statement that Kyron was "actively being worked with to listen and obey" was strange wording. If Terri is so unstable as to need a restraining order now against seeing her kids then what was she like a few months ago. I wonder if there were disagreements about how to handle the kids, if her education was considered expert in child rearing, and if he made her do it all knowing that there were big problems. I can't help but wonder if Kyron was pretty harshly disciplined.

Emma Peel
07-03-2010, 01:48 AM
I think this family has a secret.

I think that secret is so big the RO is nothing compared to it. It is not enough to make someone talk.

I think the grounds he got the RO were threats of suicide by TH.

I think she will get the child back in court.

emma likes secrets but only if she knows them.
so spill!
:angel:

Mylou
07-03-2010, 01:48 AM
Thanks PortlandMama, I tried to find that link and was finding everything but....
You are correct it does appear he may have meant walking to the car, which I assume was at home, and not walking to the school. Thanks!

human
07-03-2010, 01:48 AM
If TH was threatening suicide, she would have been taken to a hospital for observation at the very least.

I don't think in this situation, people would have shrugged it off, if they ever do.

CarmelEyesD
07-03-2010, 01:53 AM
If he already suspected at that point that Terri was responsible, then it wouldn't surprise me if he seemed "freaked out". He certainly knew that he was not free to say anything to that effect, and yet if that's what he was thinking, it was surely the number one thing on his mind. Plus I'm sure he (and Terri and Desiree and her husband) had been given a dizzying set of "don'ts" by LE, re details that should not be revealed in the press conference, and that would make anyone nervous, even it wasn't a situation where their thoughts were consumed with the recent disappearance of their child. Look what happened to the school principal when he said one "wrong" word in a press conference -- LE practically tackled him to get him away from the mike.


Is there a link to that? I missed it...TIA

Dr.Fessel
07-03-2010, 01:56 AM
I think if the judge sealed the RO because it might impact an investigation, the judge called LE. I don't think a judge would make a determination to take the three children from Terri's ability to see them unless he had a darn good reason.


They do it everyday across the country in these emergency restraining orders. All you need to do is get up in front of a judge and swear to stuff that might be true or a lie but the judge has to grant it as long as you say the right thing.

Now in the hearing coming up on the restraining order both sides will have to give evidence to their side of the story.

Dr.Fessel
07-03-2010, 02:00 AM
If TH was threatening suicide, she would have been taken to a hospital for observation at the very least.

I don't think in this situation, people would have shrugged it off, if they ever do.

The police would ask her, are you suicidal or are you having suicidal thoughts. If she said no and then said all I said was I feel like I could kill myself but I never meant it and am not going to they probably would not take her.

Just want to remind people we have no idea what he said to get the restraining order and I am just guessing on the possible suicide threat.

human
07-03-2010, 02:02 AM
They do it everyday across the country in these emergency restraining orders. All you need to do is get up in front of a judge and swear to stuff that might be true or a lie but the judge has to grant it as long as you say the right thing.

Now in the hearing coming up on the restraining order both sides will have to give evidence to their side of the story.

Well, I don't know how easy it is. I tried to get one against a teenager once and nothing happened. He was climbing into my house by a second story deck, among other things. The kid was quite well connected in my city-his uncle was a big time judge. Maybe that's why.

Anyway, this one has been sealed because it might impact an investigation. That is so totally different.

I would think that a judge would have to ask LE some questions before doing something like that. But how would I know for sure? I don't.

human
07-03-2010, 02:04 AM
The police would ask her, are you suicidal or are you having suicidal thoughts. If she said no and then said all I said was I feel like I could kill myself but I never meant it and am not going to they probably would not take her.

Just want to remind people we have no idea what he said to get the restraining order and I am just guessing on the possible suicide threat.

Then there would be no need for an RO based on her suicidal thoughts, would there.

I don't think LE are qualified to make judgments about someone being suicidal or not.

I just don't buy the suicide thing at all.

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 02:05 AM
The email to his fellow employees and his body language during the pressers made me feel there could be control issues. (Wonder what Desiree could say about this?)

My ex was a control freak and verbally abusive, and I can usually spot the victims a mile away. (As a matter of fact, that used to be part of my job in patient counseling prior to a procedure -- the observation and documentation of signs of possible abuse. For example: I always spoke TO the patient and she might look at husband/s.o before answering or HE would answer for her.)

Not knowing any more than I know now and seeing the way TH acted in public during the pressers took me back and made me wonder if that was how I looked or acted in public with ex. I knew that when we left wherever we were, I would be lectured the whole way home on every single thing HE thought I did wrong.

I do believe TH knows much more but is afraid to speak out. It's interesting to remember that her own bio-son moved out 6-7 months ago. I remember 16-17 yo as the beginning of the "tough" years with the boys; and possibly with a step-dad who might be a control freak and maybe verbally abusive, someone (?) felt it was best for him to live elsewhere (especially if he was trying to stick up for his bio-mom). Again, just tossing stuff around and MOO.

There are so many other little nuances I observed during the pressers , but it could just be guilt. Or maybe Kyron's daddy thinks he's so much smarter than LE. I also wondered, well, it's a delicate topic -- TH's looks have changed a great deal since her body-building days. I just remember that being a huge issue with my ex, the lack of control he had over that part; thus the verbal abuse.

With the divorce papers and RO done and sealed in the manner they were, it makes me wonder if they were in the works for a while except to sign and date. An engineer is a planner. I wonder what info (besides the poly, I mean) came to light so suddenly to convince the judge to seal? Also is this info enough for a wiretap and some type of listening/recording devices in the home and also with bio-dad? I wouldn't think LE would rule out any of the immediate family (given what we know today).

Again, JMHO (am a bit biased on the control issues area). I just want Kyron home and def more time with his bio-mom if possible and appropriate.
Some people become control freaks to control/manage their anxiety. By trying to control others, they are fighting their own feelings of helplessness. Everyone manages anxiety differently just like everyone grieves differently.

BlOnDe_GuRrL
07-03-2010, 02:07 AM
Something stinks about Kaine... I've been thinking that since the first PR. He just looks painfully guilty of something.... not saying he did anything to Kyron... but I'm willing to bet he's done or knows something. I'm leaning more towards the affair rumor, but it's just that.

I also still do not suspect Terri... can't quite put my finger on why not... but I think her resistance and shadiness has something to do with the "dark secret" and not Kyron.
I hope she sues the crap out of the SO/media if this turns around and she's proven innocent. Also, I think the RO was probably taken out against her because she snapped. If I was being accused of something so horrible, I would've snapped long ago... and probably threaten to shoot the next person that points a finger... just sayin'

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 02:15 AM
Then there would be no need for an RO based on her suicidal thoughts, would there.

I don't think LE are qualified to make judgments about someone being suicidal or not.

I just don't buy the suicide thing at all.
bbm No, but they have the authority to take people to be assessed by a health practitioner for involuntary commitment and they do so on a pretty frequent basis (at least in my city).

If Kaine had wanted Terri to get a few days in the locked psych unit, he could have told LE that Terri was suicidal. LE would take her or send her in an ambulance to the ER associated with that ambulance service. If Kaine could convince the ER doc or Nurse Practitioner that Terri was suicidal, she would have been involuntarily committed for 48-72 hours.
http://www.suu.edu/hss/psychology/practicum/InvoluntaryCommitmentLaws.html

scandi
07-03-2010, 02:35 AM
Was there ever an explanation given by the media as to why the two switched vehicles that morning? It has been speculated on here that Terri needed the truck to transport Kyron's project, I think. So, when were they supposed to switch vehicles again, if in fact they did. I think it is interesting that it was reported by media that a friend said Terri told her that she had done everything that Kaine had told her to do from the beginning of this case. I know that is hearsay, but so much we hear in the media is hearsay or totally erroneous information about this case. I agree with others that Kaine's behavior has been somewhat suspicious.

No, I just wondered what was up with that. I think you have learned much more than I, even if from the media. I hadn't heard that. Hmmmmmmmm xox

human
07-03-2010, 02:42 AM
bbm No, but they have the authority to take people to be assessed by a health practitioner for involuntary commitment and they do so on a pretty frequent basis (at least in my city).

If Kaine had wanted Terri to get a few days in the locked psych unit, he could have told LE that Terri was suicidal. LE would take her or send her in an ambulance to the ER associated with that ambulance service. If Kaine could convince the ER doc or Nurse Practitioner that Terri was suicidal, she would have been involuntarily committed for 48-72 hours.
http://www.suu.edu/hss/psychology/practicum/InvoluntaryCommitmentLaws.html

Yup, I totally agree.

That's what I meant about LE not being qualified to make a determination. They let the medical profession decide that.

GrainneDhu
07-03-2010, 02:50 AM
If TH was threatening suicide, she would have been taken to a hospital for observation at the very least.

I don't think in this situation, people would have shrugged it off, if they ever do.

Maybe. If she threatened suicide to Kaine and then denied she was thinking about it when LE got there, then it is a "he said, she said" situation.

Unless Oregon is very, very different from my state, they probably have a shortage of beds in psych units. I know in my state, LE is reluctant to take anyone in for a psych evaluation if they are denying any intention to harm themselves or to harm anyone else.

It is far from unheard of for someone to threaten suicide in the heat of the moment and then, when they've calmed down a bit, to deny any intention of hurting themselves. They aren't necessarily lying; it can be simply a matter of them coming to their senses.

I think all that anyone can really infer is that when LE responded to the 911 call, no one threatened suicide in front of the responding officers.

Haeve
07-03-2010, 02:59 AM
<snip>
Unless Oregon is very, very different from my state, they probably have a shortage of beds in psych units. <snip>

Nope, not different at all.

GrainneDhu
07-03-2010, 03:00 AM
They do it everyday across the country in these emergency restraining orders. All you need to do is get up in front of a judge and swear to stuff that might be true or a lie but the judge has to grant it as long as you say the right thing.

Now in the hearing coming up on the restraining order both sides will have to give evidence to their side of the story.

That is how they do it in my state.

Additionally, if someone alleges something in their application for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) and cannot provide supporting evidence during the hearing or is shown to be lying, they can be ordered to pay all the court costs for the hearing, they can be found in contempt or various other unpleasant consequences. It is meant to provide a disincentive to lie in order to get a TRO.

However, the fact is that people do lie on their TRO applications.

The process is an attempt to balance the protection of victims against the rights of the accused. No one wants to deny a victim protection under the law but no one wants to facilitate denying someone their rights, either.

So the state made it relatively easy to get a TRO; all you have to do is fill out a form and make certain types of allegations. The person that the TRO is granted against can ask for a hearing and it must be granted within five days of their request.

At the hearing is where the person applying for the TRO must bring evidence to support their allegations. They can bring in stuff like police reports, medical reports, witnesses, letters, emails, diaries, etc, to support their claims. The person who was the target of the TRO presents their side of the story.

The judge examines the evidence and makes a decision about the TRO. They can revoke it, extend it, add more clauses, basically anything. There is always an end date to the RO. Plus, the target can also appeal the judge's order.

GrainneDhu
07-03-2010, 03:09 AM
Maybe. If she threatened suicide to Kaine and then denied she was thinking about it when LE got there, then it is a "he said, she said" situation.

I wanted to add to my own post.

The above assumes that when LE arrives on the scene, the person threatening suicide seems lucid and rational. If the person is raving or is obviously not in contact with consensus reality, then everything changes.

But if LE gets a call about someone threatening suicide, arrives and the person seems rational, they don't always act on the report of the threat.

This can be very, very frustrating to the person who made the initial report. It is frustrating to everyone.

carole
07-03-2010, 03:10 AM
Edited to focus on my question.

LOL! Is there video of this? What did the principal say wrong? I must have missed it. The principal is Mr Benjamin, right? But we've mostly heard from PISD from, is it Matt Shelby, I believe?

It was in the first few days in a press conference - the principal said "criminal investigation" and the LE there quickly jumped in and there was no more from the principal. Well before LE said criminal investigation.

human
07-03-2010, 03:14 AM
That is how they do it in my state.

Additionally, if someone alleges something in their application for a Temporary Restraining Order (TRO) and cannot provide supporting evidence during the hearing or is shown to be lying, they can be ordered to pay all the court costs for the hearing, they can be found in contempt or various other unpleasant consequences. It is meant to provide a disincentive to lie in order to get a TRO.

However, the fact is that people do lie on their TRO applications.

The process is an attempt to balance the protection of victims against the rights of the accused. No one wants to deny a victim protection under the law but no one wants to facilitate denying someone their rights, either.

So the state made it relatively easy to get a TRO; all you have to do is fill out a form and make certain types of allegations. The person that the TRO is granted against can ask for a hearing and it must be granted within five days of their request.

At the hearing is where the person applying for the TRO must bring evidence to support their allegations. They can bring in stuff like police reports, medical reports, witnesses, letters, emails, diaries, etc, to support their claims. The person who was the target of the TRO presents their side of the story.

The judge examines the evidence and makes a decision about the TRO. They can revoke it, extend it, add more clauses, basically anything. There is always an end date to the RO. Plus, the target can also appeal the judge's order.

Yup. But the judge has sealed this one because of the impact on an investigation.

That brings it to a whole new level.

We even have RO's printed in our daily paper. If there are minors in the situation, they are listed as "minors OBO" ( I don't know what OBO is.)

In my job as a former teacher, I had RO's presented . In a couple of days, many times it was null and void because the person who requested it had contact with the other individual. That would negate it.

I just see this RO as a whole different ballgame.

human
07-03-2010, 03:19 AM
Re the suicide situation. This particular situation is not your ordinary situation by any stretch of the imagination.

I think if there was any talk of it, LE would have jumped right on it no matter what anyone said when they arrived there.

I just don't think that's what it's all about.

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 03:27 AM
Most cases LE has nothing to do with getting the initial emergency restraining order.

They probably never even knew he was doing that.
If you were the judge that was handed Kaine's paperwork, wouldn't you call someone in authority over at the sheriff's office? The entire nation would hold this judge responsible if KH went home with the toddler and committed filicide/suicide. (IMO, if the judge was sane, he talked to a supervisor in the sheriff's office or a FBI agent before sending the toddler home with a newly famous, potential homicidal child killer.)

Nikolai
07-03-2010, 03:29 AM
If Kaine is involved then I think Terry's involved, and him leaving her and divorcing her I highly doubt would happen in that case, unless its planned for some reason, which I doubt. Theres a chance he could be involved alone, but the police know more than us, and dont seem to think he's involved at all for some reason. He may have a good alibi and passed a polygraph, who really knows.

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 03:35 AM
*parts quoted were snipped by me from the article.

FWIW and it certanly adds some insight to the events of Kaine leaving with baby K that day,, In he current People Mag. article that just came out yesterday, there is a quote "Terri told a friend that she was called to speak to investigators and when she came back home, Kaine and their daughter were already gone.
She didn't understand it, says the friend. They've taken the last thing she has left that's important".

IMHO It seems to me that that was indeed co-ordinated and LE was involved.

So these 911 calls were after Kaine was already gone and maybe Terri called 911 since she had no idea?

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 03:35 AM
I wanted to add to my own post.

The above assumes that when LE arrives on the scene, the person threatening suicide seems lucid and rational. If the person is raving or is obviously not in contact with consensus reality, then everything changes.

But if LE gets a call about someone threatening suicide, arrives and the person seems rational, they don't always act on the report of the threat.

This can be very, very frustrating to the person who made the initial report. It is frustrating to everyone.
If the spouse claims that the individual is suicidal, LE will make every effort to get that person into an ER for an evaluation. In my city, LE won't leave the residence for a long time until they have attempted to talk the individual into voluntarily getting a psych evaluation. Many LE officers are very good negotiators.

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 03:37 AM
FWIW and it certanly adds some insight to the events of Kaine leaving with baby K that day,, In he current People Mag. article that just came out yesterday, there is a quote "Terri told a friend that she was called to speak to investigators and when she came back home, Kaine and their daughter were already gone.
She didn't understand it, says the friend. They've taken the last thing she has left that's important".

IMHO It seems to me that that was indeed co-ordinated and LE was involved.

So these 911 calls were after Kaine was already gone and maybe Terri called 911 since she had no idea.
I think after the first 911 call that lasted 11? minutes, Kaine called the sheriff's office to tell them that he was going to leave and take the toddler. LE then called Terri to come down for an interview to get her out of the home so Kaine could leave with his child without an incident.

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 03:41 AM
Nope, not different at all.
When units are filled to capacity, hospitals will leave the psych patients in the ER until a bed is available (patients are discharged or roommates reassigned.)
An employee is assigned to sit with any patient that is on suicide watch (in the ER waiting to be admitted upstairs).

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 03:44 AM
I think after the first 911 call that lasted 11? minutes, Kaine called the sheriff's office to tell them that he was going to leave and take the toddler. LE then called Terri to come down for an interview to get her out of the home so Kaine could leave with his child without an incident.

This would make sense , but to me it falls into the whole MO that the LE has been doing,closing in and circling the troops so to speak around Terri.



The quote I posted in my OP is what Terri's friend told the reporter that Terri told her about what went on.:angel:

DairyGirl
07-03-2010, 04:10 AM
I really don't think Kaine is involved at all. I am sure LE has checked his cell phones, did a LDT and all the things that they supposedly have done with Terri. Here is what I think. If Terri did this there had to be some signs. Maybe not to her friends and family but I don't think she could fool her husband. He lived with her and maybe he had seen disturbing behavior, maybe abusive behavior towards Kyron and didn't take any action. Maybe he is feeling guilty for not doing anything before it came to this point. Also, it was said that Kaine left on the advice of LE. If they suspected him I am sure they wouldn't be telling him to grab the baby and run.
His behavior since Kyron went missing might just be a combination of his personality, shock at the situation he's in and guilt over not taking action over things earlier.

mtnone
07-03-2010, 04:25 AM
*parts quoted were snipped by me from the article.

FWIW and it certanly adds some insight to the events of Kaine leaving with baby K that day,, In he current People Mag. article that just came out yesterday, there is a quote "Terri told a friend that she was called to speak to investigators and when she came back home, Kaine and their daughter were already gone.
She didn't understand it, says the friend. They've taken the last thing she has left that's important".

IMHO It seems to me that that was indeed co-ordinated and LE was involved.

So these 911 calls were after Kaine was already gone and maybe Terri called 911 since she had no idea.

I don't think that makes any sense, (not that any of this does) since the paper work said Kaine moved out on Friday. The 911 calls were late on Saturday. If he was already moved out, who was threatening who at the house if only she and her parents were there? What was the custody issue if they were already gone the day before?

I read a rumor somewhere early last week that someone drove down their road, saw Terri getting mail at the mailbox and a moving van in the driveway. I think they said this was Saturday. Rumor only.

Of course on Friday Kaine is saying in an interview that he believes TH is dedicated to finding Kyron.

On Sunday TH is telling reporters that Kaine hasn't moved out at all, it's just a rumor.

By late Monday we have her friends gathered out front of the house and one saying Terri was blindsided by the divorce filing and the RO.

If he took the baby and moved on Friday or even Saturday, how on earth could she be all the surprised by the paper work on Monday?

I might be wrong, but I do believe every single thing we have been told by someone that KH as said has turned out be wrong at best, a lie at worst. Even the few words she has spoken for herself.

Soooo, now that we have that all cleared up :banghead:

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 04:48 AM
[quote=mtnone;5363047]I don't think that makes any sense, (not that any of this does) since the paper work said Kaine moved out on Friday. The 911 calls were late on Saturday. If he was already moved out, who was threatening who at the house if only she and her parents were there? What was the custody issue if they were already gone the day before?

I read a rumor somewhere early last week that someone drove down their road, saw Terri getting mail at the mailbox and a moving van in the driveway. I think they said this was Saturday. Rumor only.

Of course on Friday Kaine is saying in an interview that he believes TH is dedicated to finding Kyron.

On Sunday TH is telling reporters that Kaine hasn't moved out at all, it's just a rumor.

By late Monday we have her friends gathered out front of the house and one saying Terri was blindsided by the divorce filing and the RO.

If he took the baby and moved on Friday or even Saturday, how on earth could she be all the surprised by the paper work on Monday?

I might be wrong, but I do believe every single thing we have been told by someone that KH as said has turned out be wrong at best, a lie at worst. Even the few words she has spoken for herself.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kaine went to the Lawyer Friday, Ir can't be ready that day so it makes the docs ready the next day. and the 911 calls, it seems that she might had no clue and was frantic. The 911 call about women in a driveway, the 911 about custody-handled over the phone. This make the 911 call make sense to me in Imo.

captivagrl
07-03-2010, 05:05 AM
IMO Kaine was and is behaving like a husband that can't believe his wife is lying to LE. I don't think the marriage was on great terms before this because he heard "something" from "someone" last Saturday that made him act drastically. He gave her no chance to explain. He wanted to be physically and legally severed. The fact that the judge granted the RO with regard to the baby girl speaks volumes, IMO. Just 24 hrs before, on Friday, on national TV he still stated, along with Kyron's mother, that they were all working together.

captivagrl
07-03-2010, 05:14 AM
And, just to add... if there is no arrest TH will file a motion to at least visit with her child. Parents are accused and even convicted of very bad crimes but they are still granted supervised visits with their biological children.

mtnone
07-03-2010, 05:56 AM
:[/quote but I don't remember reading that he took baby K and moved out Friday. I think he moved out Sat. As for Teri's behavior and the 911 calls, it seems that she might had no clue and was frantic. The 911 call about women in a driveway, the 911 about custody-handled over the phone. This make the 911 call make sense to me in Imo.




Yes, you're right, I got my dates mixed up. The papers say he moved on Sat.

Still makes no sense that she said all was great and he hadn't. It also makes her friend saying she was blindsided by the divorce papers seem, ummm, less than truthful.

evelyn24
07-03-2010, 06:30 AM
How does one go about proving their lack of involvement?

For The Kids
07-03-2010, 06:51 AM
Something stinks about Kaine... I've been thinking that since the first PR. He just looks painfully guilty of something.... not saying he did anything to Kyron... but I'm willing to bet he's done or knows something. I'm leaning more towards the affair rumor, but it's just that.

I also still do not suspect Terri... can't quite put my finger on why not... but I think her resistance and shadiness has something to do with the "dark secret" and not Kyron.
I hope she sues the crap out of the SO/media if this turns around and she's proven innocent. Also, I think the RO was probably taken out against her because she snapped. If I was being accused of something so horrible, I would've snapped long ago... and probably threaten to shoot the next person that points a finger... just sayin'

Maybe he just feels terribly guilty for bringing the woman into his house who has possibly killed his child. I think most people would feel painfully guilty in those circumstances.

JMO

Mrs G Norris
07-03-2010, 07:09 AM
Any chance kaine used some information from the investigation to get the RO with the full support (perhaps even suggestion) of LE and this is why it was so straightforward / fast / etc ... And sealed? Perhaps LE let the judge know something they have that points straight at TH but it's not enough to make an arrest at this stage. I can see LE and the judge seeing how crucial it is to protect baby k if they know that she has already harmed kyron. No need to bring up anything else if this is correct IMO

TrY
07-03-2010, 07:25 AM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

Filing for a divorce, taking the baby daughter, and getting a restraining order against his wife, TH.

believe09
07-03-2010, 08:19 AM
I posted a similar comment on the People magazine article thread; Kaine Horman is a different man from the guy I have seen in pictures with Kyron. Kaine has an easy smile and a light in his eyes when with his son...it looks completely unforced. The Kaine Horman we are seeing now looks like his soul has been drained out of him. He looks incredibly pained and robotic. I feel AWFUL for him and the others who have been devestated by Kyron's disappearance. JMO.

Cher352
07-03-2010, 09:02 AM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

Filing for a divorce, taking the baby daughter, and getting a restraining order against his wife, TH.

And that could be the exact reaction he was seeking.

Remember the engineer on the first Spector trial. He was also a very controlling type person.

matou
07-03-2010, 09:07 AM
I may be wrong about this but I can't remember Kaine ever defending his wife in regards to speculation of her possibly being the perp. This leads me to think their relationship was on the rocks before anything ever happened to Kyron. Then again, I seem to remember that he didn't seem to know anything about her facebook activities after Kyron went missing. JMO

Calliope
07-03-2010, 09:54 AM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

I've been away since yesterday afternoon. Has Kaine stated that's why he left Terri?

For The Kids
07-03-2010, 10:00 AM
And that could be the exact reaction he was seeking.

Remember the engineer on the first Spector trial. He was also a very controlling type person.

My husband is a engineer and is anything BUT a controlling type person.

Seriously - thats one heck of a generalisation.

Calliope
07-03-2010, 10:04 AM
I take it 911 tapes fall under HIPAA?

HIPAA doesn't apply to LE.

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/coveredentities/index.html

The Privacy and Security Rules apply only to covered entities. [health care providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses]

aprilshowers
07-03-2010, 10:08 AM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

Forgive me if I don't make too much sense of what I say here ... my son is very sick and my mind is completely focused on him.

That being said ... there is just something about this very thing ... the fact that Kaine left TH and took the baby too ... that makes something in my head ... think that he's trying to make her look guilty, or take the attention off himself onto her ... or something all together different, that my mind isn't zoning in on .. because of other stress from my son.

What do you all think? Does that make any sense at all? :waitasec:

matou
07-03-2010, 10:15 AM
Forgive me if I don't make too much sense of what I say here ... my son is very sick and my mind is completely focused on him.

That being said ... there is just something about this very thing ... the fact that Kaine left TH and took the baby too ... that makes something in my head ... think that he's trying to make her look guilty, or take the attention off himself onto her ... or something all together different, that my mind isn't zoning in on .. because of other stress from my son.

What do you all think? Does that make any sense at all? :waitasec:

Like Kaine may be trying to railroad his wife? The thought has crossed my mind as well. If he wanted to divorce Terri and she refused? He did not seem supportive of his wife at all and he must have known people were pointing the finger at her. Did he bear hug Tony at the first press release? I have to watch that again to be sure. JMO

Calliope
07-03-2010, 10:17 AM
Then there would be no need for an RO based on her suicidal thoughts, would there.

I don't think LE are qualified to make judgments about someone being suicidal or not.

I just don't buy the suicide thing at all.

BBM

LE is qualified to make that initial assessment.

A police officer has the absolute statutory authority to take into immediate custody without a court order anyone he feels is a danger to himself or others.

Once the person is in custody, then the ball starts rolling on determining if the person shall continue to be held and/or committed either voluntarily or involuntarily, outpatient or inpatient.

Not only may an officer take someone into custody based upon his own judgement and probable cause to believe the person is a danger to himself or others, but it can be done with a warrant issued by a magistrate or judge when evidence is given (through family, friends, healthcare providers, LE, or others).

But whether through a warrant or an officer's own determination of probable cause, the clock starts ticking once the person is in custody. They are taken for immediate evaluation, and if it's determined the person should be held, then there is a set time frame (48 hours here, if the law hasn't changed in the last several years) in which a hearing must be held. Depending upon the outcome, the person can be then held involuntarily or allowed to obtain voluntary treatment, either inpatient or outpatient, or of course simply released. The maximum involuntary commitment here is 180 days, btw.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/426.228

NewsMuse
07-03-2010, 11:38 AM
Some people become control freaks to control/manage their anxiety. By trying to control others, they are fighting their own feelings of helplessness. Everyone manages anxiety differently just like everyone grieves differently.

ITA. Also by controlling others, they are trying to project an image of how they WANT to be perceived. Yes, everyone does manage anxiety and grief in ways. But I do know that in my case, it would take some fast-talking by LE to get me in front of a camera, LIVE. In the end, I would do whatever it would take to keep my child's picture in the media.

I think of Morgan Harrington's parents, in the beginning (local to me) and also Taylor Behl's mother and father. I realize they are older than Kyron, but your children are always your children. And, much more closer to home in my heart, my granddaughter (also 7 y.o.) and physically safe now.

As always, JMHO.

human
07-03-2010, 11:45 AM
Like Kaine may be trying to railroad his wife? The thought has crossed my mind as well. If he wanted to divorce Terri and she refused? He did not seem supportive of his wife at all and he must have known people were pointing the finger at her. Did he bear hug Tony at the first press release? I have to watch that again to be sure. JMO

they did bear hug and I thought it was because they managed to get through reading those incredibly difficult statements.

They kept their emotions in check while reading them, and then they displayed their true emotions with each other.

human
07-03-2010, 11:49 AM
BBM

LE is qualified to make that initial assessment.

A police officer has the absolute statutory authority to take into immediate custody without a court order anyone he feels is a danger to himself or others.

Once the person is in custody, then the ball starts rolling on determining if the person shall continue to be held and/or committed either voluntarily or involuntarily, outpatient or inpatient.

Not only may an officer take someone into custody based upon his own judgement and probable cause to believe the person is a danger to himself or others, but it can be done with a warrant issued by a magistrate or judge when evidence is given (through family, friends, healthcare providers, LE, or others).

But whether through a warrant or an officer's own determination of probable cause, the clock starts ticking once the person is in custody. They are taken for immediate evaluation, and if it's determined the person should be held, then there is a set time frame (48 hours here, if the law hasn't changed in the last several years) in which a hearing must be held. Depending upon the outcome, the person can be then held involuntarily or allowed to obtain voluntary treatment, either inpatient or outpatient, or of course simply released. The maximum involuntary commitment here is 180 days, btw.

https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/426.228

Yup, they can make an assessment of the situation and act.

They , however, are not mental health professionals who can diagnose.

That is why I believe if there was a threat of suicide they would have acted.

SM would have been taken to a situation where professionals could have made a determination.

That did not happen. Hence, IMO, no suicide talk.

As Pensfan stated, no rational LE in this situation would have let suicide talk fall by the wayside.

RoughlyCollie
07-03-2010, 11:51 AM
Like Kaine may be trying to railroad his wife? The thought has crossed my mind as well. If he wanted to divorce Terri and she refused?

KH can get a divorce whether TH agrees to it or not.

brandi
07-03-2010, 11:57 AM
Like Kaine may be trying to railroad his wife? The thought has crossed my mind as well. If he wanted to divorce Terri and she refused? He did not seem supportive of his wife at all and he must have known people were pointing the finger at her. Did he bear hug Tony at the first press release? I have to watch that again to be sure. JMO
BBM
Yes, he did. at least a 7 second hold...
With Terri it looked (TO ME) like he was being perfunctory. Just the standard Ill put my arm around you, not look at you, try not to notice that weird thing you're doing with your eyes, I'm just gonna look at the floor...
Sorry...sarcasm
:angel:

Ms Suzanne
07-03-2010, 11:57 AM
Sheriff says missing Oregon boy's stepmother cooperated



That assessment came yesterday and is at variance with what the biological parents of Kyron Horman said the day before when they pleaded with Terri Horman to, as they put it, "fully cooperate" with investigators.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/national/story/Sheriff-says-missing-Oregon-boys-stepmother/UaaK3SttGUqfTZ6ZXOAEew.cspx




I feel maybe they do not need to do any more family press conferences unless they are with LE.I also noticed thier press conference with the media was not on the sheriffs websites.

pittsburghgirl
07-03-2010, 11:59 AM
The indication that the judge is aware of Kyron's disappearance and the subsequent investigation is that he put the restraining order under seal, so as not to interfere with the investigation.

That makes me wonder if Kaine told the judge he fears for his daughter's safety because his son, last seen with his wife, has disappeared. Clearly, there are things we don't know that the judge knows and LE knows.

oxymoran
07-03-2010, 12:00 PM
How does one go about proving their lack of involvement?


By providing corroborating evidence...eye-witness/electronic etc...to show you were doing something, the timing of which is mutually exclusive with your direct involvement with the execution of the crime ie you have an alibi.

OTOH...I accept that such an alibi does not prove you were not involved in the commissioning/planning of the crime.

JBean
07-03-2010, 12:02 PM
How does one go about proving their lack of involvement?

IF you mean in a legal sense as in a court of law,they don't have to. :) The burden of proof would be on the state to show that the person was involved.

ClueMeIn
07-03-2010, 12:06 PM
, try not to notice that weird thing you're doing with your eyes, I'm just gonna look at the floor...

:::giggle:::

OK, back to being serious, but that was funny!

Ms Suzanne
07-03-2010, 12:11 PM
I was thinking with the 911 calls.I think it speaks volumes that when LE came during the first call.The child was not taken out of the home immediately and child protective custody called in right there and then.I feel maybe LE thought it was a domestic dispute and it was mutual fighting between them and left?The 2nd call I feel was when He possibly could have been leaving with the child and LE could not do anything about that.It was a legal matter?He is going to have to have the burden of proof in any thing he presents to the judge.The fact LE left during the first 911 call shows me possibly they did not feel a real danger existed.I personally feel it does not show a man of character to go behind her back and serve divorce papers.IMHO.

RoughlyCollie
07-03-2010, 12:13 PM
OTOH...I accept that such an alibi does not prove you were not involved in the commissioning/planning of the crime.

Innocence can be impossible to prove. For example, say I were sleeping on the couch on the first floor of my house, and everyone else in my family was asleep upstairs. I am on the couch because I fell asleep while reading, which doesn't happen often.

My child disappears during the night. There are no signs of forced entry and LE can find no indication that the child was abducted by anyone outside the family. They can find no physical evidence which pertains to the child's disappearance from my home. The child has vanished into thin air.

There is evidence that this child was a lot of trouble to me and people thought the child was my least favorite one because of the way I treated the child or because of things I have said. None of these things rise to level of child abuse or neglect. I just get so weary having to deal with the problems this child has, on top of everything else. Sometimes I confide my feelings and thoughts to my friends (venting and wanting someone to understand) and sometimes I do get impatient.

To top it off, I have a large amount of life insurance on the child and I am the sole beneficiary. It was cheap to buy, and I bought it because I was worried about the high cost of funeral expenses, should they arise, due to my limited income. My father advised me to do this and to buy a lot since it was cheap. When the other children came along, I bought insurance on them, but I couldn't afford to buy more than $10,000 on each.

I am a single parent, I make just enough money to get by, have no boyfriend, all three of my children are under age 6, the father of my children lives far away and has a solid alibi and we get along fine, and AFAIK I have no enemies or stalkers or people who are mad at me. I have no criminal record and have never been reported to DSS.

I have a bachelor's degree in English and I manage a doctor's office. My favorite books are complex murder mysteries and my favorite t.v. shows are crime shows, especially CSI, and I only watch t.v. when the kids are asleep.

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?

ClueMeIn
07-03-2010, 12:48 PM
I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?
__________________

Book em' Danno!

eyes4crime
07-03-2010, 12:52 PM
Kaine is an architectural engineer so by nature he is logical, exact and organized person, as exact as the calculus and physics courses he had to take to become what he is.

Trying to apply logic and ground rules to the media, and determining the criteria for what a 'team player' is, Kaine, and Kaine alone, has managed to refocus the public eye off of his missing son and onto himself.

With that said - I say get him off the stage! Let Desiree manage the press conferences. Her words are heartfelt, sincere, and resonate with people everywhere; she extracts compassion from the public, not scrutiny. Her agenda is clear and simple - she wants her son back - end of story.

Another huge plus for Desiree is that she appears to have 100% support from her LE detective husband and of course, he has the backing of LE everywhere. Please get off the stage Kaine and know that it does matter how one is perceived by the public. I have no doubt you are in crisis and in pain over your missing son, but please step aside for now. moo mho mhho

JBean
07-03-2010, 12:58 PM
Innocence can be impossible to prove. For example, say I were sleeping on the couch on the first floor of my house, and everyone else in my family was asleep upstairs. I am on the couch because I fell asleep while reading, which doesn't happen often.

My child disappears during the night. There are no signs of forced entry and LE can find no indication that the child was abducted by anyone outside the family. They can find no physical evidence which pertains to the child's disappearance from my home. The child has vanished into thin air.

There is evidence that this child was a lot of trouble to me and people thought the child was my least favorite one because of the way I treated the child or because of things I have said. None of these things rise to level of child abuse or neglect. I just get so weary having to deal with the problems this child has, on top of everything else. Sometimes I confide my feelings and thoughts to my friends (venting and wanting someone to understand) and sometimes I do get impatient.

To top it off, I have a large amount of life insurance on the child and I am the sole beneficiary. It was cheap to buy, and I bought it because I was worried about the high cost of funeral expenses, should they arise, due to my limited income. My father advised me to do this and to buy a lot since it was cheap. When the other children came along, I bought insurance on them, but I couldn't afford to buy more than $10,000 on each.

I am a single parent, I make just enough money to get by, have no boyfriend, all three of my children are under age 6, the father of my children lives far away and has a solid alibi and we get along fine, and AFAIK I have no enemies or stalkers or people who are mad at me. I have no criminal record and have never been reported to DSS.

I have a bachelor's degree in English and I manage a doctor's office. My favorite books are complex murder mysteries and my favorite t.v. shows are crime shows, especially CSI, and I only watch t.v. when the kids are asleep.

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?

Generally speaking and assuming you are pleading not guilty,you are not required to show that you didn't do it, the state is required to show that you DID do it.
They would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that you are guilty. if they cannot show it, then you do not have to do anything. You can rest your case, but this is another topic entirely LOL

ETA: we cannot comment on how or if you would defend yourself, until we know how the state is going to prove you did it.

aprilshowers
07-03-2010, 01:00 PM
Innocence can be impossible to prove. For example, say I were sleeping on the couch on the first floor of my house, and everyone else in my family was asleep upstairs. I am on the couch because I fell asleep while reading, which doesn't happen often.

My child disappears during the night. There are no signs of forced entry and LE can find no indication that the child was abducted by anyone outside the family. They can find no physical evidence which pertains to the child's disappearance from my home. The child has vanished into thin air.

There is evidence that this child was a lot of trouble to me and people thought the child was my least favorite one because of the way I treated the child or because of things I have said. None of these things rise to level of child abuse or neglect. I just get so weary having to deal with the problems this child has, on top of everything else. Sometimes I confide my feelings and thoughts to my friends (venting and wanting someone to understand) and sometimes I do get impatient.

To top it off, I have a large amount of life insurance on the child and I am the sole beneficiary. It was cheap to buy, and I bought it because I was worried about the high cost of funeral expenses, should they arise, due to my limited income. My father advised me to do this and to buy a lot since it was cheap. When the other children came along, I bought insurance on them, but I couldn't afford to buy more than $10,000 on each.

I am a single parent, I make just enough money to get by, have no boyfriend, all three of my children are under age 6, the father of my children lives far away and has a solid alibi and we get along fine, and AFAIK I have no enemies or stalkers or people who are mad at me. I have no criminal record and have never been reported to DSS.

I have a bachelor's degree in English and I manage a doctor's office. My favorite books are complex murder mysteries and my favorite t.v. shows are crime shows, especially CSI, and I only watch t.v. when the kids are asleep.

I am completely innocent. How do I prove it?

I say we start a thread on this topic .... very interesting me thinks. How DOES one actually prove their innocence ... when not guilty, yet it looks as all heck, they are?

1Chump
07-03-2010, 01:00 PM
"What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?"

For me, the fact that he left TH when he felt she wasn't cooperating with LE. And he took his baby girl to protect her.

IMO, my initial response to hearing about the divroce/RO was "he is brilliant." Either he was taking advantage of the situation by filing for a planned divorce and insuring himself custody or to cast suspicion on the SM. Then I had to ask why the need to cast suspicion on the SM except to deflect suspicioun from him.

It was the divorce filing that "raised" my eyebrows. There was no need to file for divorce at this time. By filing for divorce, he made it public. He could have filed for a RO which would have been sealed from the public due to the involvement of the minor child. With the media missing him moving out, they had no idea there were problems in that marriage until the divorce was filed. The divorce filing is what lead to the reasons for the RO. Without the divorce filing, the RO could have been spun as threats/harassment by an unknown. The media found out about that filing too quickly. In my experience, the only time the media finds out that quickly about a court filing is when they have been tipped off.

Until then I had never given him much thought.

Just my opinion.

1Chump
07-03-2010, 01:13 PM
If it has anything to do with a medical issue yes.

Is it medical issue or pschiatrict issue? I don't know Oregon law but in CA psychiatrict issues are protected under the Constitution. 911 tapes involving psych issues are not released. However, 911 tapes involving medical issues are released.

sofia76
07-03-2010, 01:17 PM
I say we start a thread on this topic .... very interesting me thinks. How DOES one actually prove their innocence ... when not guilty, yet it looks as all heck, they are?

You can't. That's why in the US, one doesn't have to prove innocence, only guilt (beyond a reasonable doubt).

1Chump
07-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Well, I don't know how easy it is. I tried to get one against a teenager once and nothing happened. He was climbing into my house by a second story deck, among other things. The kid was quite well connected in my city-his uncle was a big time judge. Maybe that's why.

Anyway, this one has been sealed because it might impact an investigation. That is so totally different.

I would think that a judge would have to ask LE some questions before doing something like that. But how would I know for sure? I don't.

IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

sofia76
07-03-2010, 01:28 PM
IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

We do know why it's sealed. Well, not specifically. But the judge said it could interfere with the investigation.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5362380&postcount=889

RoughlyCollie
07-03-2010, 01:29 PM
I say we start a thread on this topic .... very interesting me thinks. How DOES one actually prove their innocence ... when not guilty, yet it looks as all heck, they are?

This would be especially important if the investigation were focused upon one person, which would derail LE resources from being put to their best use.

Cher352
07-03-2010, 01:36 PM
And that could be the exact reaction he was seeking.

Remember the engineer on the first Spector trial. He was also a very controlling type person.

My husband is a engineer and is anything BUT a controlling type person.

Seriously - thats one heck of a generalisation.

I am sorry if it appeared to be generalizing that all engineers act this way but I was just reminding people of all the discussion on engineers that was done when Spector's first trial resulted in a hung jury. In that case he was a very controlling person..IMO

scrunchngo
07-03-2010, 01:44 PM
IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

BBM - We do know that is the reason stated by both KH's attorney and the judge. Scroll to the bottom under Also Friday

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/search_for_kyron_horman_costs.html


A consortium of news agencies, including The Oregonian, failed Friday to persuade a Multnomah County judge to unseal Kaine Horman's petition for a restraining order against his wife and the order itself.

Circuit Judge Keith Meisenheimer decided that the right of Kaine and Terri Horman to be heard on the issue outweighed the public's right to know immediately what's in the restraining order and the documents supporting it.

He continued the hearing until July 13 so lawyers for the estranged couple could respond.

Prosecutors argued in an affidavit that disclosing the contents of Kaine Horman's petition would have the "significant potential" to harm the criminal investigation into the second-grader's disappearance.

The judge seemed to agree, saying that the public does not want the court to release any information that would "compromise the safe recovery of Kyron Horman."


Also, IMO the hearing scheduled for July 13 is a continuation of the petition filed by the "consortium of news agencies" to unseal the order. It is NOT a hearing for TH to respond to whatever it is in the RO that is not allowing her to see her child. Two different issues, therefore I would think, two different hearings.

evelyn24
07-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Like Kaine may be trying to railroad his wife? The thought has crossed my mind as well. If he wanted to divorce Terri and she refused? He did not seem supportive of his wife at all and he must have known people were pointing the finger at her. Did he bear hug Tony at the first press release? I have to watch that again to be sure. JMO

So he kills his son and railroads his wife into take the fall, and fools all of LE in the process, and all in order to finally get a divorce?

ok

Isn't the most simple explanation that he actually has GUTS and common sense unseen in so many of these cases where the spouse or parents stand by the accused and deny deny deny when a child is missing or murdered? Maybe you're seeing a man who actually believes whatever the LE is telling him and truly does fear for his daughter's life, and THAT is why he hasn't been supportive since the beginning of this case, and finally left TH. Maybe there was stuff going on in the house that bothered him before Kyron went missing, like TH playing favorites, or TH being mean to Kryon over little things, you know? Maybe he saw signs that she was jealous of him being around ever since her "real" daughter was born.

RoughlyCollie
07-03-2010, 01:48 PM
You can't. That's why in the US, one doesn't have to prove innocence, only guilt (beyond a reasonable doubt).

That is in a court of law.

What if you are the main suspect and you are innocent? Wouldn't you want to be able to prove that you didn't have anything to do with the crime, so LE could put their resources to solving it? Wouldn't you be afraid that you would be arrested eventually, or that the perp would go free? Wouldn't you be concerned if your reputation and the trust your family and friends had in you was being eroded?

In that situation, I think an innocent person would have good reason to despair if they could not prove their innocence.

human
07-03-2010, 01:49 PM
I was thinking with the 911 calls.I think it speaks volumes that when LE came during the first call.The child was not taken out of the home immediately and child protective custody called in right there and then.I feel maybe LE thought it was a domestic dispute and it was mutual fighting between them and left?The 2nd call I feel was when He possibly could have been leaving with the child and LE could not do anything about that.It was a legal matter?He is going to have to have the burden of proof in any thing he presents to the judge.The fact LE left during the first 911 call shows me possibly they did not feel a real danger existed.I personally feel it does not show a man of character to go behind her back and serve divorce papers.IMHO.

what if the man of no character truly believed the woman took his child and did something with that child?

1Chump
07-03-2010, 01:50 PM
We do know why it's sealed. Well, not specifically. But the judge said it could interfere with the investigation.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5362380&postcount=889


"After a hearing Friday, Kaine Horman's attorney, Laura Racknar, said her client needed time to review the request and file a response to the petition. Racknar presented an affidavit from the district attorney's office which stated that unsealing the order could have a damaging effect on the criminal investigation.

Judge Keith Meisenheimer said he's confident the public doesn't want to engage in the release of information that could compromise finding Kyron Horman."

Actually, that was the reason given for not unsealing per the media requests. Interesting that the DA did not appear. Kaine's attorney asked the DA to support Kaine in keeping it sealed and out of the public eye. The Judge's statement is based on the DA's affidavit. Even then the DA said it "could compromise."

IMO, if it really was sealed because it could compromise the investigation, the DA would be the one fighting to keep it sealed, not Kaine's attorney. IMO, that Kaine's attorney is fighting to keep it sealed supports that it was sealed to protect the minor child and not the investigation.

human
07-03-2010, 01:51 PM
IMO, my initial response to hearing about the divroce/RO was "he is brilliant." Either he was taking advantage of the situation by filing for a planned divorce and insuring himself custody or to cast suspicion on the SM. Then I had to ask why the need to cast suspicion on the SM except to deflect suspicioun from him.

It was the divorce filing that "raised" my eyebrows. There was no need to file for divorce at this time. By filing for divorce, he made it public. He could have filed for a RO which would have been sealed from the public due to the involvement of the minor child. With the media missing him moving out, they had no idea there were problems in that marriage until the divorce was filed. The divorce filing is what lead to the reasons for the RO. Without the divorce filing, the RO could have been spun as threats/harassment by an unknown. The media found out about that filing too quickly. In my experience, the only time the media finds out that quickly about a court filing is when they have been tipped off.

Until then I had never given him much thought.

Just my opinion.

If he truly believes that she did something to the missing child, I seriously doubt that he wants to expend his assets on a trial for her.

human
07-03-2010, 01:54 PM
IMO, We do not know that it is sealed because of the investigation. IMO, that is horrible speculation by the media. The RO involves a minor child which is most likely why it is sealed. Family law records involving minors are sealed from the public to protect the minor.

IMO, the divorce is public and the proceedings are open the public. But the child custody part is sealed and the proceedings are closed. RO's fall under the Family Court. As the RO involves a minor, it should be sealed just as the custody part is sealed.

I believe it says right on the RO that it is sealed because of the investigation. At any rate, it is not rumor, but don't have to look for it.

RO's in my city are printed in the daily paper with minor's listed as minor OBO.

Not sealed.

1Chump
07-03-2010, 01:54 PM
BBM - We do know that is the reason stated by both KH's attorney and the judge. Scroll to the bottom under Also Friday

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/search_for_kyron_horman_costs.html


A consortium of news agencies, including The Oregonian, failed Friday to persuade a Multnomah County judge to unseal Kaine Horman's petition for a restraining order against his wife and the order itself.

Circuit Judge Keith Meisenheimer decided that the right of Kaine and Terri Horman to be heard on the issue outweighed the public's right to know immediately what's in the restraining order and the documents supporting it.

He continued the hearing until July 13 so lawyers for the estranged couple could respond.

Prosecutors argued in an affidavit that disclosing the contents of Kaine Horman's petition would have the "significant potential" to harm the criminal investigation into the second-grader's disappearance.

The judge seemed to agree, saying that the public does not want the court to release any information that would "compromise the safe recovery of Kyron Horman."


Also, IMO the hearing scheduled for July 13 is a continuation of the petition filed by the "consortium of news agencies" to unseal the order. It is NOT a hearing for TH to respond to whatever it is in the RO that is not allowing her to see her child. Two different issues, therefore I would think, two different hearings.


BBM...An affidavit presented by Kaine's attorney. IMO, that the DA or someone from the DA's office did not go to court themselves says that they are not that concerned.

RoughlyCollie
07-03-2010, 01:58 PM
BBM...An affidavit presented by Kaine's attorney. IMO, that the DA or someone from the DA's office did not go to court themselves says that they are not that concerned.

The DA knew the affidavit would be sufficient. I think that's why they did not go to court -- they are very busy and it was not necessary.

At the hearing in a couple of weeks, it will be interesting to see if anyone from LE shows up. Personally, I think that this interim period is very important to the investigation -- I think that LE is hoping that either they will find Kyron or Terri will break down to the point where she confesses.

nonfictionrocks
07-03-2010, 02:00 PM
If he truly believes that she did something to the missing child, I seriously doubt that he wants to expend his assets on a trial for her.

TH would still be entitled to half these assets regardless of whether she is involved or not. They could have had a prenup but I think this is doubtful. JMO

oceanblueeyes
07-03-2010, 02:06 PM
I sure would like to see the actual court document when Desiree filed a RO on Kaine and see what reasons she gave for doing so.

It would be interesting to me to compare the two if Kaine's RO is ever unsealed.

IMO

sofia76
07-03-2010, 02:07 PM
That is in a court of law.

What if you are the main suspect and you are innocent? Wouldn't you want to be able to prove that you didn't have anything to do with the crime, so LE could put their resources to solving it? Wouldn't you be afraid that you would be arrested? What if the case went to trial, wouldn't you be afraid of being judged guilty?

Sure you might want to, and you could try your best. But innocent people do end up in prison sometimes. There are few guarantees in life. Best way to avoid that (I guess) is to not live alone and generally be able to account for your whereabouts ...? Oh, and make enough money to hire a good criminal lawyer so that you can avoid being charged with a crime based on suspicion in the first place.

grandmaj
07-03-2010, 02:07 PM
Kaine is off limits for sleuthing but not for discussing his behavior.

We sleuth case players all the time. What we do differently is we do not allow sleuthing of just anyone and we do not allow personal info to be posted that is not in any sense related to the case.

Be sure that information you provide in your posts can be backed up with MSM links. We are not allowed to bash or make wild assumptions about this family. They deserve the benefit of the doubt that they are grieving about Kyron more than any one of us.

Bump........... I am seeing all sorts of rumor and wild assumptions in this thread. Unless MSM reports on suicide :nono: The red mustang story has become a real problem. It is being repeated through the threads. It has not been reported on MSM and as such is a rumor even if someone claims it is true on a blog.

Let's get back to the subject matter here. We had a thread for the restraining order that went over 900 pages. Thank You.

evelyn24
07-03-2010, 02:07 PM
That is in a court of law.

What if you are the main suspect and you are innocent? Wouldn't you want to be able to prove that you didn't have anything to do with the crime, so LE could put their resources to solving it? Wouldn't you be afraid that you would be arrested eventually, or that the perp would go free? Wouldn't you be concerned if your reputation and the trust your family and friends had in you was being eroded?

In that situation, I think an innocent person would have good reason to despair if they could not prove their innocence.

No, because how does one PROVE a negative? I think it's impossible. Investigators are paid to find the perp and should be smart enough to use their resources properly.
If I knew I didn't do it, I'd get an attorney and let the investigation take it's place and run it's course.
I'd be worried about finding my kid first of all, and then I would make sure I was fully cooperating with LE, and hope the proper person was arrested and justice was done.
That's all an innocent person can do. Running around trying to prove I'm not guilty of something would not be effective imo.
LE should be smart enough figure that out on their own with a solid alibi and other evidence, etc.

Pensfan
07-03-2010, 02:08 PM
TH would still be entitled to half these assets regardless of whether she is involved or not. They could have had a prenup but I think this is doubtful. JMO
bbm
(Respectfully) No, she won't. Oregon is an "equitable distribution" state, the marital property shall be divided in an equitable fashion. Equitable does not mean equal, but rather what is fair. Terri and Kain have only been married for approx. 3 years. She only lived with Kaine after Kyron was born to be the babysitter. (Pensfan coughs and clears throat.)
http://www.divorcesource.com/info/divorcelaws/oregon.shtml

sofia76
07-03-2010, 02:13 PM
I hadn't caught who Kaine's lawyer was. He has a very good lawyer (Laura Rackner).

NewsMuse
07-03-2010, 02:18 PM
Kaine is an architectural engineer so by nature he is logical, exact and organized person, as exact as the calculus and physics courses he had to take to become what he is.

Trying to apply logic and ground rules to the media, and determining the criteria for what a 'team player' is, Kaine, and Kaine alone, has managed to refocus the public eye off of his missing son and onto himself.

With that said - I say get him off the stage! Let Desiree manage the press conferences. Her words are heartfelt, sincere, and resonate with people everywhere; she extracts compassion from the public, not scrutiny. Her agenda is clear and simple - she wants her son back - end of story.

Another huge plus for Desiree is that she appears to have 100% support from her LE detective husband and of course, he has the backing of LE everywhere. Please get off the stage Kaine and know that it does matter how one is perceived by the public. I have no doubt you are in crisis and in pain over your missing son, but please step aside for now. moo mho mhho

ITA. You stated this so much better than I did. :bow:

Also agree with the rest of your opinion; would like to add: Desiree's detective husband is in the background. He may or may not be telling Desiree everything he knows; however, he does know media and how LE can use certain things to their advantage.

adh74
07-03-2010, 02:33 PM
If he already suspected at that point that Terri was responsible, then it wouldn't surprise me if he seemed "freaked out". He certainly knew that he was not free to say anything to that effect, and yet if that's what he was thinking, it was surely the number one thing on his mind. Plus I'm sure he (and Terri and Desiree and her husband) had been given a dizzying set of "don'ts" by LE, re details that should not be revealed in the press conference, and that would make anyone nervous, even it wasn't a situation where their thoughts were consumed with the recent disappearance of their child. Look what happened to the school principal when he said one "wrong" word in a press conference -- LE practically tackled him to get him away from the mike.

I missed that one...what happened? Do you have a link?

winterrose
07-03-2010, 02:36 PM
ITA. You stated this so much better than I did. :bow:

Also agree with the rest of your opinion; would like to add: Desiree's detective husband is in the background. He may or may not be telling Desiree everything he knows; however, he does know media and how LE can use certain things to their advantage.

I totally agree,also,Kaine's demeanor from the beginning,actually both him and Terri took focus off Kyron and had everyone scratching thier heads.Desiree's demeanor on the other hand and Tony's statement was how you'd expect to see any parent's nightmare of having a missing child.But,actually at this point,unless they have anything new,I don't see the point of family pressers.Especially since Kaine's controlling the media's articles on what they report.LE's pressers with Kyron's photos out there is keeping this in the media.

I'm not posting some things I want to say,because I keep seeing this little smiley face with a finger swaying back and forth,no no no. :angel: :innocent:

1Chump
07-03-2010, 02:37 PM
I believe it says right on the RO that it is sealed because of the investigation. At any rate, it is not rumor, but don't have to look for it.

RO's in my city are printed in the daily paper with minor's listed as minor OBO.

Not sealed.

OBO stand for "on behalf of,"

I think you are talking about the Notice of Restraining Order. Those usually are published because the person cannot be personally served with the Notice. Many people try to avoid service thinking they can violate the order then claim they were not aware of it. The Court orders the Notice of Restraining Order to be published which then constitutes service,, ie notice to the person. Even if the person never sees the Notice, it prevents them from arguing they only violated the RO because they were unaware.

Emma Peel
07-03-2010, 02:37 PM
Kaine is an architectural engineer so by nature he is logical, exact and organized person, as exact as the calculus and physics courses he had to take to become what he is.

Trying to apply logic and ground rules to the media, and determining the criteria for what a 'team player' is, Kaine, and Kaine alone, has managed to refocus the public eye off of his missing son and onto himself.

With that said - I say get him off the stage! Let Desiree manage the press conferences. Her words are heartfelt, sincere, and resonate with people everywhere; she extracts compassion from the public, not scrutiny. Her agenda is clear and simple - she wants her son back - end of story.

Another huge plus for Desiree is that she appears to have 100% support from her LE detective husband and of course, he has the backing of LE everywhere. Please get off the stage Kaine and know that it does matter how one is perceived by the public. I have no doubt you are in crisis and in pain over your missing son, but please step aside for now. moo mho mhho

Agree with your assessment of Kaine's persona. Kaine has moved into work mode for Kyron’s case and has made LE his new Intel. Managing the family side of Kyron’s case is his new job. I’m guessing he works off a constantly refined plan and makes to-do lists daily with his whole team. The first thing he does every morning is call LE to see what they need him to do that day.

I respectfully disagree that Kyron's father should abdicate these responsibilities to Desiree. He is Kyron's father, and custodial father, after all. His place is right there, with Kyron's mother.

Kaine seems willing (and is likely capable) to organize and lead & handle uncomfortable conflicts. By taking those responsibilities, he frees up Desiree as the sympathetic face, heartfelt and genuine voice for Kyron and his family. His administrative role lets Desiree be her maternal self - just Desiree.

And we agree - that that is the best way to use Desiree. She does a great job.

IMO, this just a good business decision - dividing those tasks. Tony could be the group leader, perhaps, but there would only have been criticism about Kaine if he did.

In time Kaine & the press will figure this awkwardness out...they have to - for Kyron.

Finally, I think Kaine's stepping it up here in a leadership/organizational role is another fact which points to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disapearrance. Perps don’t ask the media to meet with them twice a week. Perps don't put themselves into the spotlight, especially if they are private people.

yes mods, smooth but sincere move there to stay on-topic. :D

winterrose
07-03-2010, 02:44 PM
But,this is LE's place to lead an investigation,not Kaine's,he's not in charge of this investigation,although it appears he has taken it over.He's taken the focus off Kyron and ticked alot of people off,which causes more questions on what really happened and since this is a divorce,are we hearing only his version of what's going on.I wonder if LE is going to put him in his place,and take the lead back,because they are looking very weak at this point.I hope the investigation isn't all being based on Kaine's account of everything.At this point,it's seeming very one sided.

evelyn24
07-03-2010, 02:46 PM
But,this is LE's place to lead an investigation,not Kaine's,he's not in charge of this investigation,although it appears he has taken it over.He's taken the focus off Kyron and ticked alot of people off,which causes more questions on what really happened and since this is a divorce,are we hearing only his version of what's going on.I wonder if LE is going to put him in his place,and take the lead back,because they are looking very weak at this point.I hope the investigation isn't all being based on Kaine's account of everything.At this point,it's seeming very one sided.


How has HE taken the focus off of Kyron?

Ms Suzanne
07-03-2010, 02:55 PM
what if the man of no character truly believed the woman took his child and did something with that child?
IMHO I personally don't feel he thought that.I feel a man of character would not have went behind her back filling for divorce when she thought everything was ok.It's sounds very controlling to me.A power issue.I feel it was wrong.If he was so concerned about the welfare of his child why did he wait untill he filed divorce to say something.I personally and honestly have had enough of all this.What is everyone doing right now to find this little boy.Where is little Kyron?

Nana46
07-03-2010, 03:07 PM
Knowing about grieving through losing a child, I can only say this.....I really think KH is grieving harder than anyone can see it...he just can control some way ....I don't know how but God help him.....I think he was confronted in some way with knowledge of what TH has ?done, ?said, something that has cut him to his core........and the only way he could cope and deal with it was to get out as fast as he could and grab the minor child away to prevent something or someone hurting that child........the facts are in the details somewhere hidden from everyone except the court (judge) who saw enough to tell him this was a move that needed to be IMO. Today I pray for this poor family and Kyron....we have our independence but precious little Kyron has none today.

matou
07-03-2010, 03:21 PM
So he kills his son and railroads his wife into take the fall, and fools all of LE in the process, and all in order to finally get a divorce?

ok

Isn't the most simple explanation that he actually has GUTS and common sense unseen in so many of these cases where the spouse or parents stand by the accused and deny deny deny when a child is missing or murdered? Maybe you're seeing a man who actually believes whatever the LE is telling him and truly does fear for his daughter's life, and THAT is why he hasn't been supportive since the beginning of this case, and finally left TH. Maybe there was stuff going on in the house that bothered him before Kyron went missing, like TH playing favorites, or TH being mean to Kryon over little things, you know? Maybe he saw signs that she was jealous of him being around ever since her "real" daughter was born.

Sorry, I never said he killed his son. I said the thought crossed my mind that he might want to railroad his wife to get her out of his life. JMO

adh74
07-03-2010, 03:23 PM
IMO, my initial response to hearing about the divroce/RO was "he is brilliant." Either he was taking advantage of the situation by filing for a planned divorce and insuring himself custody or to cast suspicion on the SM. Then I had to ask why the need to cast suspicion on the SM except to deflect suspicioun from him.

It was the divorce filing that "raised" my eyebrows. There was no need to file for divorce at this time. By filing for divorce, he made it public. He could have filed for a RO which would have been sealed from the public due to the involvement of the minor child. With the media missing him moving out, they had no idea there were problems in that marriage until the divorce was filed. The divorce filing is what lead to the reasons for the RO. Without the divorce filing, the RO could have been spun as threats/harassment by an unknown. The media found out about that filing too quickly. In my experience, the only time the media finds out that quickly about a court filing is when they have been tipped off.

Until then I had never given him much thought.

Just my opinion.

I think he went ahead and filed for divorce in order to protect his own financial liability in the massive debt that is likely to be incurred in defense attorney fees. I'm not sure if OR is the same, but in NC, as soon as you file for legal seperation/divorce you are no longer liable for any debts your soon-to-be-ex incurs.

Emma Peel
07-03-2010, 03:34 PM
I think he went ahead and filed for divorce in order to protect his own financial liability in the massive debt that is likely to be incurred in defense attorney fees. I'm not sure if OR is the same, but in NC, as soon as you file for legal seperation/divorce you are no longer liable for any debts your soon-to-be-ex incurs.

Like the frosting on the divorce cake? :angel:

adh74
07-03-2010, 03:35 PM
OBO stand for "on behalf of,"

I think you are talking about the Notice of Restraining Order. Those usually are published because the person cannot be personally served with the Notice. Many people try to avoid service thinking they can violate the order then claim they were not aware of it. The Court orders the Notice of Restraining Order to be published which then constitutes service,, ie notice to the person. Even if the person never sees the Notice, it prevents them from arguing they only violated the RO because they were unaware.

I know this is kinda O/T, but I have to say this is pretty dumb. Is everyone supposed to read the fine print in the newspaper every day to see if anyone has filed a RO against them? I'd be FAR LESS likely to be aware of a RO against me from the newspaper than I would a notice served to me in person.

debirlfan
07-03-2010, 04:04 PM
My ex was a control freak and verbally abusive, and I can usually spot the victims a mile away. (As a matter of fact, that used to be part of my job in patient counseling prior to a procedure -- the observation and documentation of signs of possible abuse. For example: I always spoke TO the patient and she might look at husband/s.o before answering or HE would answer for her.)

Not knowing any more than I know now and seeing the way TH acted in public during the pressers took me back and made me wonder if that was how I looked or acted in public with ex. I knew that when we left wherever we were, I would be lectured the whole way home on every single thing HE thought I did wrong.

I do believe TH knows much more but is afraid to speak out. It's interesting to remember that her own bio-son moved out 6-7 months ago. I remember 16-17 yo as the beginning of the "tough" years with the boys; and possibly with a step-dad who might be a control freak and maybe verbally abusive, someone (?) felt it was best for him to live elsewhere (especially if he was trying to stick up for his bio-mom). Again, just tossing stuff around and MOO.


It has occurred to me that if TH felt that "home" was an unsafe/unhealthy environment for Kyron, she could have felt trapped - while she raised Kyron, he's not her child, and she would have had no legal means to get custody. She could have taken the child and handed him off to someone she trusted, planning to get custody of the baby and join him once the case went cold and attention died down.

For The Kids
07-03-2010, 04:07 PM
Forgive me if I don't make too much sense of what I say here ... my son is very sick and my mind is completely focused on him.

That being said ... there is just something about this very thing ... the fact that Kaine left TH and took the baby too ... that makes something in my head ... think that he's trying to make her look guilty, or take the attention off himself onto her ... or something all together different, that my mind isn't zoning in on .. because of other stress from my son.

What do you all think? Does that make any sense at all? :waitasec:

Maybe he figures hes lost one child because of her and he doesnt want to risk losing another. I cant blame him for that...

T-Rex
07-03-2010, 04:10 PM
"What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad. At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would 'remove our children from their residence.'”
http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/#comments_add

"In 2003 Desiree and Kaine’s divorce is final. They share custody of Kyron who lives mostly with Desiree....

In 2004 Desiree moves to Canada for medical treatment. Terri, Desiree’s friend, offers to move in with Kaine to help care for Kyron, a toddler at the time. She brings her son James with her.

Just two months later Desiree returns from Canada with $30,000 in bills. She moves in with her parents in Medford and allegedly did not try to regain custody of Kyron. She did maintain a relationship with him."
http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m7d1-Kyron-Horman-Update--Family-in-turmoil--two-911-calls-Saturday-at-Horman-residence-dad-moves-out


"Tarver says Terri Moulton Horman sent [her son / Kyron's stepbrother] to Roseburg in March this year because his grades were slipping and he was acting out at home.
'He and Kaine on occasion butted heads, because James is hard-headed,' Tarver says.
http://wweek.com/editorial/3634/14214/

"The father of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman filed for divorce, taken out a restraining order against his wife and moved out with their young daughter."
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyrons-dad-hasnt-moved-out-step-mom-says-97354759.html

carole
07-03-2010, 04:11 PM
It has occurred to me that if TH felt that "home" was an unsafe/unhealthy environment for Kyron, she could have felt trapped - while she raised Kyron, he's not her child, and she would have had no legal means to get custody. She could have taken the child and handed him off to someone she trusted, planning to get custody of the baby and join him once the case went cold and attention died down.

If TH thought Kyron was in an unsafe environment, I think she would have talked to Kyron's mother and informed her of the problems, not kidnapped him.

carole
07-03-2010, 04:14 PM
"What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad. At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would 'remove our children from their residence.'”
http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/#comments_add

"In 2003 Desiree and Kaine’s divorce is final. They share custody of Kyron who lives mostly with Desiree....

In 2004 Desiree moves to Canada for medical treatment. Terri, Desiree’s friend, offers to move in with Kaine to help care for Kyron, a toddler at the time. She brings her son James with her. Just two months later Desiree returns from Canada with $30,000 in bills. She moves in with her parents in Medford and allegedly did not try to regain custody of Kyron. She did maintain a relationship with him."
http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Seattle-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m7d1-Kyron-Horman-Update--Family-in-turmoil--two-911-calls-Saturday-at-Horman-residence-dad-moves-out


"Tarver says Terri Moulton Horman sent [her son / Kyron's stepbrother] to Roseburg in March this year because his grades were slipping and he was acting out at home.
'He and Kaine on occasion butted heads, because James is hard-headed,' Tarver says.
http://wweek.com/editorial/3634/14214/

"The father of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman filed for divorce, taken out a restraining order against his wife and moved out with their young daughter."
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyrons-dad-hasnt-moved-out-step-mom-says-97354759.html

BBM

In the Friday national news interviews, Desiree stated that she did not
know Terri before Kyron was born. They were not "friends" before they were introduced by Kaine.

NewsMuse
07-03-2010, 04:18 PM
If this has been touched on before, please forgive me since this Forum moves so quickly. As a newbie, I'm trying my best (and a holiday weekend on top of that).

The stiffness that I saw in pressers could be read so many different ways. Could KH have already retained his attorney prior to Kyron gone missing? TH wouldn't have even had to know. (I say this because I did this -- all said and done and one evening I presented him with all the paperwork and told him that now would be a good time for him to get his own attorney.)

Maybe the RO is boilerplate and "all of the boxes were checked" either to buy some time or cover all the bases (on the advice of his attorney or LE?). We really don't know for sure that CPS isn't involved. But I just can't buy the suicide thing since there were other people in the home (her father had arrived by then, right?).

Everyone is different in their reactions to situations. Someone mentioned (don't recall where in all these threads) his photos with Kyron -- big smiles, loving, and lots of pictures. I could show you photos of my granddaughter during "that" time; I had no clue (lives in a different state). Now that she's older, though, and spent 5 weeks with us last summer, I learned so much by NOT asking any questions and just listening.

JMO and all that. I just want Kyron home NOW or want to know that he is safe. This is just breaking my heart on so many levels: the actions of KH just don't feel right and Kyron's smile. His smile is real, you can see it in his eyes.

Maybe I watch too many crime shows, of all genera, but it wouldn't surprise me if the home has listening devices. Also, we got spoiled from all of the doc dumps in the CA case. While all this makes for interesting reading and discussion (and it is the law in FL), does it help the case?

As always, JMHO and musings.
:confused:

For The Kids
07-03-2010, 04:22 PM
IMHO I personally don't feel he thought that.I feel a man of character would not have went behind her back filling for divorce when she thought everything was ok.It's sounds very controlling to me.A power issue.I feel it was wrong.If he was so concerned about the welfare of his child why did he wait untill he filed divorce to say something.I personally and honestly have had enough of all this.What is everyone doing right now to find this little boy.Where is little Kyron?

Seriously unless any of us were there how do he know we waited until the files were filed before he said anything? We know there were 2 incidents Saturday and one reportedly were about child issues so in all likelihood this came up Saturday and NOT Monday after the papers were filed.

This man has a child missing. Probably dead. Its looking unfortunately like Terri is possibly involved one way or another. I think this man has a LOT of character for trying to save his baby from potential harm. I feel very very sorry for this man. He has probably lost his child for ever and I am sure he cant help thinking why did he ever bring this woman into Kyrons life. As someone else posted..he looks like a different man now to when he was in the pictures with Kyron..like his hearts been ripped out of him :(

Ms Suzanne
07-03-2010, 04:26 PM
Seriously unless any of us were there how do we know we waited until the files were filed before he said anything? We know there were 2 incidents Saturday and one reportedly were about child issues so in all likelihood this came up Saturday and NOT Monday after the papers were filed.

This man has a child missing. Probably dead. Its looking unfortunately like Terri is possibly involved one way or another. I think this man has a LOT of character for trying to save his baby from potential harm. I feel very very sorry for this man. He has probably lost his child for ever and I am sure he cant help thinking why did he ever bring this woman into Kyrons life. As someone else posted..he looks like a different man now to when he was in the pictures with Kyron..like his hearts been ripped out of him :(
I think he was very rude and direspectful to do that and file for divorce with out her knowing.As I said I'm tired of hearing about this whole thing.What are they doing to find little kyron.I won't discuss this any more.Lets move on please.It's ok to disagree.

debirlfan
07-03-2010, 04:36 PM
If TH thought Kyron was in an unsafe environment, I think she would have talked to Kyron's mother and informed her of the problems, not kidnapped him.

What if she thought that the mother knew what was going on, and had done nothing about it?

I have no idea if this is true - just trying to keep an open mind, and find scenarios that could fit the facts as we know them.

MysteryAddict
07-03-2010, 04:43 PM
What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?

None that I know of!

Curious Me
07-03-2010, 04:45 PM
Just came from the "Terri at the Gym" thread where I watched the gym visit video again. Both of them were at the gym and both of them dissed the reporter instead of getting word out there to keep looking for Kyron. Why didn't Dad speak up then, I wonder?

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 04:58 PM
I totally agree,also,Kaine's demeanor from the beginning,actually both him and Terri took focus off Kyron and had everyone scratching thier heads.Desiree's demeanor on the other hand and Tony's statement was how you'd expect to see any parent's nightmare of having a missing child.But,actually at this point,unless they have anything new,I don't see the point of family pressers.Especially since Kaine's controlling the media's articles on what they report.LE's pressers with Kyron's photos out there is keeping this in the media.

I'm not posting some things I want to say,because I keep seeing this little smiley face with a finger swaying back and forth,no no no. :angel: :innocent:

With the utmost respect for all the sleuthers on this thread, I am not singling you out Winterrose( I just quoted yours because it was the last one I read and I'm tired) or anyone else.:blowkiss:

Speaking hypothetically,for my own self here, IF god forbid I ever had this horrendous situation with my child and after I could'nt make sense on how my spouse,last known person to have seen my child, I would definately have what I was thinking written all over my face! It turned this whole family into a perpetual living nightmare. Besides the fact in short order, I was learning the person I married and loved and entrusted might not be who I thought they were. I would have a hard time trying not to show in the public what I am now learning about my spouse from the facts given by LE (yes I know we know nothing much from LE and that's for a good reason, well I believe this because the alternative is LE is bs'ing us and that would hurt in future LE issues. Seriously,their job is to protect and serve ! That is JMHO on what I see when Kaine is in the PC's. Could any of us be expected to not be human and act as if everything was ok in public if god forbid our child went missing and it looks like the spouse was involved? Kaine must be devastated as are Desiree and Tony. I have never gotten that vibe or saw anything that equalled the actions of the other parents from Terri. That to me speaks volumes.

MHO:cow:

Bring Kyron home:praying::praying::praying::praying:

For The Kids
07-03-2010, 05:05 PM
I think he was very rude and direspectful to do that and file for divorce with out her knowing.As I said I'm tired of hearing about this whole thing.What are they doing to find little kyron.I won't discuss this any more.Lets move on please.It's ok to disagree.

I think it was worse that whatever happened to Kyron was possibly because of Terris actions. And again..because she said she had no knowledge doesnt make it true. I am not sure she has a great grasp of reality but in any case her father admitted before she was served or the statement was read that there was problems..so she had to know something


But you know something i dont care what is rude and disrespectful to Terri Horman. I find it far far worse what has happened to Kyron..and at the moment all roads appear to be pointed to her.

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 05:34 PM
:dance:this space intentionally left blank! LOL oops

Yes I know it is not blank! It's a conumdrum.

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 05:40 PM
I think it was worse that whatever happened to Kyron was possibly because of Terris actions. And again..because she said she had no knowledge doesnt make it true. I am not sure she has a great grasp of reality but in any case her father admitted before she was served or the statement was read that there was problems..so she had to know something


But you know something i dont care what is rude and disrespectful to Terri Horman. I find it far far worse what has happened to Kyron..and at the moment all roads appear to be pointed to her.

Thank you for saying this also!

eyes4crime
07-03-2010, 05:41 PM
Agree with your assessment of Kaine's persona. Kaine has moved into work mode for Kyron’s case and has made LE his new Intel. Managing the family side of Kyron’s case is his new job. I’m guessing he works off a constantly refined plan and makes to-do lists daily with his whole team. The first thing he does every morning is call LE to see what they need him to do that day.

I respectfully disagree that Kyron's father should abdicate these responsibilities to Desiree. He is Kyron's father, and custodial father, after all. His place is right there, with Kyron's mother.

Kaine seems willing (and is likely capable) to organize and lead & handle uncomfortable conflicts. By taking those responsibilities, he frees up Desiree as the sympathetic face, heartfelt and genuine voice for Kyron and his family. His administrative role lets Desiree be her maternal self - just Desiree.

And we agree - that that is the best way to use Desiree. She does a great job.

IMO, this just a good business decision - dividing those tasks. Tony could be the group leader, perhaps, but there would only have been criticism about Kaine if he did.

In time Kaine & the press will figure this awkwardness out...they have to - for Kyron.

Finally, I think Kaine's stepping it up here in a leadership/organizational role is another fact which points to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disapearrance. Perps don’t ask the media to meet with them twice a week. Perps don't put themselves into the spotlight, especially if they are private people.

yes mods, smooth but sincere move there to stay on-topic. :D

HI there Ms. Emma! No doubt Kaine has gone into work mode and is approaching his missing son as he would a design flaw in one of his engineering projects. I wonder how long it will take him to realize that the management tactics he has been using are not effective? I would never give Kaine the credit for controlling LE and I won't give him the credit for managing conflict - he has created more turmoil and conflict than the other players combined. And I agree, except for the Ted Bundy''s of the world, most perps, with direct involvement, would not normally place him/herself in such a confrontational situation with the media and judgmental America. I doubt that speaks to his innocence in all aspects of this case.
moo mho

I wonder when Kaine will realize his game plan isn't working - most eyes are now on his divorce and RO. He has kicked out two major local papers that he will need and will have to rely on if this case should go cold. What works in the Intel work environment is not working here. IMO his designs are filled with spite and punishment, emotions that are, hopefully, unacceptable in the work environment at Intel.

I highly doubt Desiree would allow herself to be 'used' by Kaine, in any way. This would be the second time she will have lost Kyron in a situation with Kaine involved. Ms. Emmy, I just know you didn't mean it the way you wrote it.

No doubt in my mind Kaine is filled with grief. There are people who channel their grief into action because that's what makes them feel effective, and what they know how to do best - but come on, it's quite a distraction and imo not in the best interest of missing Kyron. He needs to give up the reign of his fleet and let others take it over...I believe he should allow Desiree more time and allow her to speak for the three of them "gulp". Quit the orchestration of events and get back to the basics of finding justice for Kyron "gulp". If Kaine can't do that - than I say it's time for him to retire or coach from the sidelines. moo mho

Emma Peel
07-03-2010, 05:51 PM
HI there Ms. Emma! No doubt Kaine has gone into work mode and is approaching his missing son as he would a design flaw in one of his engineering projects. I wonder how long it will take him to realize that the management tactics he has been using are not effective? I would never give Kaine the credit for controlling LE and I won't give him the credit for managing conflict - he has created more turmoil and conflict than the other players combined. And I agree, except for the Ted Bundy''s of the world, most perps, with direct involvement, would not normally place him/herself in such a confrontational situation with the media and judgmental America. I doubt that speaks to his innocence in all aspects of this case.
moo mho

I wonder when Kaine will realize his game plan isn't working - most eyes are now on his divorce and RO. He has kicked out two major local papers that he will need and will have to rely on if this case should go cold. What works in the Intel work environment is not working here. IMO his designs are filled with spite and punishment, emotions that are, hopefully, unacceptable in the work environment at Intel.

I highly doubt Desiree would allow herself to be 'used' by Kaine, in any way. This would be the second time she will have lost Kyron in a situation with Kaine involved. Ms. Emmy, I just know you didn't mean it the way you wrote it.

No doubt in my mind Kaine is filled with grief. There are people who channel their grief into action because that's what makes them feel effective, and what they know how to do best - but come on, it's quite a distraction and imo not in the best interest of missing Kyron. He needs to give up the reign of his fleet and let others take it over...I believe he should allow Desiree more time and allow her to speak for the three of them "gulp". Quit the orchestration of events and get back to the basics of finding justice for Kyron "gulp". If Kaine can't do that - than I say it's time for him to retire or coach from the sidelines. moo mho

oh dear.
You are correct, I did not mean to imply that Desiree is a pushover and is letting Kaine use her. Maybe I'll have to go back and fix something up there! :eek: I think "Team Kyron" knows that Desiree is their natural spokesperson. I think it's a good plan to let her be spokesperson, and to not bother her with the media admin junk, so she can keep focused with her heart. That's all I meant.

I'm rooting for "Team Kyron" to figure all this stuff out asap too. If not - they'll get some professional media help. Choice of Kaine's attny shows some good judgement on the team.

eyes4crime
07-03-2010, 05:56 PM
oh dear.
You are correct, I did not mean to imply that Desiree is a pushover and is letting Kaine use her. Maybe I'll have to go back and fix something up there! :eek: I think "Team Kyron" knows that Desiree is their natural spokesperson. I think it's a good plan to let her be spokesperson, and to not bother her with the media admin junk, so she can keep focused with her heart. That's all I meant.

I'm rooting for "Team Kyron" to figure all this stuff out asap too. If not - they'll get some professional media help. Choice of Kaine's attny shows some good judgement on the team.

:blowkiss:

Noway
07-03-2010, 06:11 PM
Carole, could you provide a link to that? I'm just trying to keep the info in the Who's Who up-to-date. TIA


In the Friday national news interviews, Desiree stated that she did not
know Terri before Kyron was born. They were not "friends" before they were introduced by Kaine. ETA
Lost quote, but was referring to Post 150.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - What facts point to Kaine's lack of involvement in Kyron's disappearance?

ETA2
Looking in "current news" for Friday.
2010.07.02 ~ TODAY's CURRENT NEWS ***No discussions please*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

NewsMuse
07-03-2010, 06:26 PM
If TH thought Kyron was in an unsafe environment, I think she would have talked to Kyron's mother and informed her of the problems, not kidnapped him.

I agree. Even IF KH was very controlling, it wouldn't be unusual for her to speak to Desiree on the phone. Just to me, that would have been the most logical and safest way to handle her concerns. But nothing surrounding Kyron's disappearance has been logical to me anyway.

JMHO as always.

Noway
07-03-2010, 06:36 PM
I've been told it is in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rx3YHyQrM8&feature=player_embedded

Still watching, but ... she says she did not know Terri before Kyron was born, but she does not say (in this video) that Kaine introduced them.

CharlestonGal transcribed:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.06.19 ~ Kyron Horman's Blended Family

Verbatim from 6:04:

Interviewer: "Despite the divorce, you seem - I mean, you knew Terri before Kyron was born, right?"

DY: "No,I did not.

Interviewer: "You didn't?"

DY: "No."

Emma Peel
07-03-2010, 06:39 PM
I've been told it is in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rx3YHyQrM8&feature=player_embedded

Watching now.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.06.19 ~ Kyron Horman's Blended Family

it's at 6:04 - 6:11. per that post.

Noway, when you are done watching, will you come over and organize my house?

:blowkiss:

Noway
07-03-2010, 07:02 PM
~snipped from Emma Peel ~
Noway, when you are done watching, will you come over and organize my house?

I'm on my way!

http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/deplacer/enavion.gif

smart blonde
07-03-2010, 07:13 PM
I have watched all of the videos (including the one above) several times, and there is nothing in any of them that lead me to suspect that Kyron's dad has anything to do at all with Kyron's disappearance. Nothing.

As a matter of fact, I believe that both of Kryon's biological parents, along with Kyron's step-father, are desperate to find Kyron, and are doing all that they can think of to bring their son home.

I have read most of the posts in this thread with an open mind, and have come to the personal conclusion/opinion that Kyron's father is not involved, at all.

The only adult in this case exhibiting suspicious behavior, in my opinion, is the step-mother, Terri Horman. She seems to be the only one 'hiding out', avoiding the media, not co-operating with the authorities, etc. She is the only one that has been reported as being deceitful with the authorities.

At this point, I can say I stand behind Kaine, Desiree and Tony in their honest efforts to find Kyron 100%.

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 07:39 PM
In a prior post I used a hypothetical of what I would do if my child went missing and things progressed to the point I couldn't be in denial anymore.

I am sharing a painful event that did happen to me years ago where my daughters were concerned but it wasn't my now ex-hubby. I rarely share this with anyone other than trusted close family/friends so it was something I felt you wondersleuther family might find helpful.

I too was subjected to horrific comments etc from his friends. They didn't know the whole story.
But to me it was all about my kids not what others that didn't have facts said.

It might show some insight as to why Desiree,Kaine and Tony are speaking out as they are.

Someone that I dated and loved and cherished was accused in a private therapy session, of possible molestation. I went thru a gambet of emotions! It was stated to me from second ONE by LE that I was NOT to tell him anything and if I did they would take all my minor children who were still in my home from me. :sick: They needed to investigate . It was the worst time of my life when I just cut him like an ax from that moment on and I couldn't even tell him why because no matter how I felt my childrens wellbeing was the ONLY thing that mattered! It was the first call I made telling him NOT to come to my home or talk to me as that's what I needed to do, LE told me this is what had to happen.It was never a question in my mind but LE/FBI work with this stuff everyday. I guess this is why I can totally get behind the investigation and actions that we see. I got a TRO/No contact order etc the next day.

My first and ONLY priorty was my children. I felt awful not being able to tell this man the if and whys at that point, but it was the only option for me! My children are my life.

anyway maybe this can give some explanation as to why LE/FBI are doing this case the way they are! :angel:


I have the worst poker face! I can say it all without uttering a single word! It was so hard to try to
not show something was wrong. I am so grateful I don't lie because I suck at it! I'm a dead give away!
.

NewsMuse
07-03-2010, 08:44 PM
... My first and ONLY priorty was my children. I felt awful not being able to tell this man the if and whys, but it was the only option for me! My children are my life.

anyway maybe this can give some explanation as to why LE/FBI are doing this case the way they are! :angel:


I have the worst poker face! I can say it all without uttering a single word! It was so hard to try to not show something was wrong. I am so grateful I don't lie because I suck at it! I'm a dead give away!
.

Respectfully snipped by me ...

Thank for you sharing. I can't even imagine what that must have been like. Besides the part about your inside view of what may be going on behind the scenes, your post reminded me that I shouldn't be so quick to judge when I don't know the facts. I guess my previous job knowledge just went into overdrive, and I hope this is a completely different scenario that has a positive outcome sooner rather than later.

socalgal2
07-03-2010, 09:30 PM
:hug:Respectfully snipped by me ...

Thank for you sharing. I can't even imagine what that must have been like. Besides the part about your inside view of what may be going on behind the scenes, your post reminded me that I shouldn't be so quick to judge when I don't know the facts. I guess my previous job knowledge just went into overdrive, and I hope this is a completely different scenario that has a positive outcome sooner rather than later.

Thank You Newsmuse.:hug:
I felt because of Kyron's Case I could muster up enough courage to tell about it here. I wouldn't have felt right if I didn't share a little insight I experienced first hand. As always we want Kyron home!:praying:

Aedrys
07-03-2010, 11:01 PM
I think he was very rude and direspectful to do that and file for divorce with out her knowing.As I said I'm tired of hearing about this whole thing.What are they doing to find little kyron.I won't discuss this any more.Lets move on please.It's ok to disagree.

But maybe he fully thought his wife was innocent until he talked to LE? I don't see what he did as rude and disrespectful, I see it as a man who believed in his wife and then came to realize she did something horrible to his son. I think he was shocked and surprised by what LE told him, and felt it was best to get his daughter, his only child left, to safety. He probably knew how this would go over but didn't care because his baby's safety means more to him than what people think about him.

I sometimes wonder what we'd be saying if he was still standing by Terri and supporting her, and then it comes out that she did do something horrible. I bet we'd hear criticism for Kaine not doing something sooner to get his baby away from her. But it's too soon right now for him to have done just that?

I think the only thing Kaine is guilty of is making the bad choice to bring Terri into Kyron's life. And I think that eats at Kaine everyday, knowing that Terri did this because he married her and he allowed her to be part of Kyron's life. He ignored warning signs, and now look what happened. At least he's not trying to cover up what she did and lie to police like the Anthony parents.

He's actually trying to do the right thing, but because he's not showing more emotion and letting his practical, organizational, engineer mentality to take over to deal with what has happened, apparently that makes him a controlling, wife framing, diabolical murderer that is trying to get away with a perfect crime.

I have not seen one iota of evidence that makes me think he had anything to do with this. What I have seen is terrible guilt that something has happened to his son, and Kaine trying control what is around him to override those guilty feelings and make himself feel like he can still bring his little boy home. He has not shown anything except that he loves his children with all of his heart, definitely more than the wife suspected of having done something horrible to Kyron.

I think he needs to be given the benefit of the doubt until actual evidence comes out against him. Then I will eat my words and gladly say I was wrong. And if he's so suspicious, we might as suspect Desiree and Tony. He's LE and would know how to circumvent forensics and know how a crime scene works. And they don't even live there, so it would be impossible to say that they couldn't have been there that morning.

IMO, the only person who looks guilty in this case is Terri. She is the one with suspcious actions and behaviors, and I think the majority of what she and her friends have said is lies that have fallen on their faces, or is meant to cast suspicion on Kaine. What else can TH do but try to make someone else look more guilty than she is?

human
07-04-2010, 02:29 AM
IMHO I personally don't feel he thought that.I feel a man of character would not have went behind her back filling for divorce when she thought everything was ok.It's sounds very controlling to me.A power issue.I feel it was wrong.If he was so concerned about the welfare of his child why did he wait untill he filed divorce to say something.I personally and honestly have had enough of all this.What is everyone doing right now to find this little boy.Where is little Kyron?

If you were married to a person who you think did something to your child, would you care in the littlest tiniest bit what that person thought or felt?

human
07-04-2010, 02:36 AM
Just came from the "Terri at the Gym" thread where I watched the gym visit video again. Both of them were at the gym and both of them dissed the reporter instead of getting word out there to keep looking for Kyron. Why didn't Dad speak up then, I wonder?

Because he believed his wife at the time.

Mylou
07-04-2010, 03:19 AM
Has Kaine ever spoken directly to Kyron in any form? Via media or interviews, etc...

CarmelEyesD
07-04-2010, 03:42 AM
It may not be Terri...she may be covering up for someone..(or Kaine thinks she might be)..that would still be enough for me to leave.

Mrs G Norris
07-04-2010, 05:42 AM
I think kaine has gone into work mode and is coming off as controlling because he is completely freaked out ... Being in work mode allows him to keep going and feel like he is doing something constructive, and acting 'controlling' allows him to feel like he is in control. When in reality the situation is completely out of control and theres nothing he can do to fix it. I think what were seeing is a guy who is usually in control of his life living through a total nightmare and desperately trying to keep it together.

JMO

cluciano63
07-04-2010, 07:04 AM
Yeah, I'm not seeing Kaine as a guy who is the life of the party, but I don't see guilt here, at least not guilt as far as what happened to Kyron. He may have plenty of guilt feelings regarding his marriage and choice of step mom for Kyron. He may even have guilt about being custodial parent. But I think he is just a super Type-A fella and is trying to apply his corporate lessons to a situation that has no equal.

Haeve
07-04-2010, 04:04 PM
Re: Kaine being controlling.

I keep seeing batted about that either TH or KH (especially KH) in regards to J (Kyron's half-brother) that they "sent him away". Do we have any proof of that?

Like I mentioned in an earlier thread, I moved from one parent's house to another, but it was my choice. No one "sent me away". I think I'm having a trouble with the wording implying something sinister here. The situation with J may or may not have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, but in all the blended families I know (none of whom are abusive or homicidal), a child might choose to live with a different parent, or everyone might get together and decide it was better for a child to live the other parent, grandparents, etc., but in no case was the child "sent away". That implies that the child was being punished. Maybe it's just economy of words. It's faster to say "J was sent to live with his bio-dad" than to say "the families decided that J would be better off living with bio-dad".

It's also possible J was acting out and needed a "time out" of sorts, but I think that's none of our business. Overall, in the absence of the rest of this circus, I'd would just think that the kid and his family might be having problems typical of raising a teenager and decided everyone needed a change of scenery.

OTH, my personality-disordered mother threatened to send me to the local juvenile lockup for not obeying her every whim--I was certainly not a delinquent, I just called BS on her delusional BS. These were just empty threats though.

Anyway, where does it say J was "sent away"? Links pretty please.

oxymoran
07-04-2010, 06:29 PM
I suppose the fact that his wife tried to hire a hitman to kill him would, at first blush, suggest that there was someone in the family far more likely than Kaine to have been involved in making his bio-son disappear. (more than slight understatement)

On the flip side out comes the allegation that Kaine was cheating on Terri. Perhaps his lover refused to take Kaine unless he got rid of his son. Naaah...makes no sense.

So if the hitman charge is real...imo Kaine's off-the-hook.

Dee10
07-04-2010, 07:32 PM
Personally, I would not trust a word TH says. There may not have been an affair at all.

Mylou
07-04-2010, 07:52 PM
I find Kaine's choice of words strange as well as his demeanor.
I find it interesting that Terri hasn't said a word, and yet she is continously considered deceitful, its amazing really for a woman who has been told to keep silent, and who hasn't spoken a word.

CathyinTexas
07-05-2010, 01:46 AM
I suppose the fact that his wife tried to hire a hitman to kill him would, at first blush, suggest that there was someone in the family far more likely than Kaine to have been involved in making his bio-son disappear. (more than slight understatement)

On the flip side out comes the allegation that Kaine was cheating on Terri. Perhaps his lover refused to take Kaine unless he got rid of his son. Naaah...makes no sense.

So if the hitman charge is real...imo Kaine's off-the-hook.

I certainly missed something! Where did all that information come from? Hypothetical, or who hired a hit man to kill who?

PorcineGranny
07-05-2010, 02:49 AM
This is a horrible situation and I don't really have a clear picture of it yet. When did all this trouble and heartbreak start? None of us know. We know that Kaine is the head of his family and somewhere along the line he failed as a husband and possibly Terri failed as a wife. In the middle of this were children who now are accepting the brunt of those failures. Poor Kyron happened to be in the line of fire. It is wrong for Terri to decide to hurt someone by destroying his child or not caring for his child when it was her responsibility no matter the wound she had received in her mind from this man. We as mortals can be so petty and uncaring especially of those we are suppose to care for and love. The only fact I can come up with for Kaine is that he provided for his family.
None can say at this point what kind of man he is.

Although, I will say if my son came home with a woman who was a weightlifter with a body like that, I would ask him what was wrong with him. Obviously her interests would have not been in homemaking and motherhood. I don't know, I'm truly confused at all the information we are receiving.

I pray Kyron is alive but I don't think he is, May God bless his little soul.