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Chili Fries
07-04-2010, 11:03 AM
I agree that the most logical scenario is probably...

Terri is having an affair (not with the lawn guy) and she wants the insurance money to start a new life.


A couple things have stood out to me but I haven't brought them up...


Kaine makes a good bit of money at Intel but his last house was not in the greatest neighborhood. This new house they live(d) in now still seems less than what they could afford on his salary. I think Kaine had money troubles somehow and he was worth more to Terri dead than alive.


I've looked at the Sauvie Island satellite photos and if Terri put Kyron's body in the water I have a hard time finding a spot in the middle of the day where she could have done it unless she waded out into the water and got all wet and muddy (which is a possibility). This, along with what may be a compressed timeframe for her getting rid of Kyron, has made me wonder if she had somebody helping her or who she handed off his body to for disposal. That would be her lover.

The first part about Kaine's money I feel more confidently about than the second part about having help but I think it's a possibility.

CharlestonGal
07-04-2010, 11:03 AM
I don't agree with the above. I respect attorneys more for saying "no comment" than I do those who comment. There is rarely a good reason for an attorney to publicly comment on a case, IMO. Usually, from what I can tell, the reasons for so doing are to try the case in the media and/or self-promotion.

Not that I refuse to pay attention to those comments -- I've got a wide streak of curiosity.

I agree. I would fire any attorney of mine who told my business to the press. I would love to hear it though!:innocent:

justbeachy
07-04-2010, 11:03 AM
Holy biscuits!!! This one caught me by surprise!

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm anxious to hear what her side of the story is and how her lawyer will potray it. He's pretty high-dollar and well-known. I imagine he's doing this pro bono for the press he's getting.

Maybe she used the money she was going to pay the landscaper.

This begs the question of where she got that kind of money. Maybe she was going to pay the landscaper after she received the insurance money. Or maybe she offered him too low a price, and her attorney is pro bono.

Tell you one thing, if I were a criminal defense attorney and in a position to take cases without payment, I'd take this one. It's interesting.

amysmom
07-04-2010, 11:04 AM
BBM. The landscaper did not go to LE apparently. According to the article, LE tracked him down.

"After Kyron disappeared June 4, investigators with the county's Major Crimes Team tracked down the landscaper in the course of trying to interview everyone who had contact with the boy's family. "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

It sounds like he never did any work on the property (since K had no knowledge) so they found him from phone records?..I wonder how many xs there was "contact"..My guess is many xs..I wonder where they met? He has to be a 'shady character' (illegal?-criminal record?) or Terri wouldn't have asked him to commit murder..It would also explain why he didn't contact LE.

If he wouldn't off Kaine I can't see him doing anything involving a kid..I think maybe Terri found someone else re: Kyron or she did it herself..Whatever that 'else' is & for herself it would be much easier then doing anything to Kaine.

My guess is this is ALL about the baby daughter..She knows if there's a divorce Kaine would gain full custody of her..I believe she is def unstable & there's plenty more ammo for Kaine to use against her we don't know about yet.

raeann
07-04-2010, 11:04 AM
Excuse me, perhaps I am just not understanding everything correctly..

The reporter at the scene said The Oregonian had somehow gotten back on the family’s good side and was among those waiting outside to hear the prepared statement

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/...the-oregonian/

I do realize the Oregonian was asked to leave, however I also understood they were allowed to stay and hear the prepared statement...
BTW.. I'm only human. I am entitled to make mistakes.. I just stated what I thought was correct.. They were told to leave, but somehow managed to get back on the family's good side and was allowed to stay and hear the prepared statment...JMO


I was not disagreeing with you...just that none of them were technically back IN the building when the statement was read. They were all outside of the building. We are also only hearing what the WW reporter THOUGHT had happened. Even the Oregonian themselves made only a one sentence reference to the events, so I am taking the WW report for what it was....just their own opinion of the events. Irregardless, it seems that the Oregonian is choosing to play by their own rules and not so much on the "team".

jmo

Mysterylover
07-04-2010, 11:04 AM
Respectfully snipped by me.....

Could be all 3....given the level of crazy this latest tidbit demonstrates. It points to a mental health issue of some sort in my mind.
There is some form of personality disorder operating here....

which could have come as a result of a history of abuse.

We know KH's brother claims that to be true in their family.

This is such a mess. I know we try to K.I.S.S., but that just doesn't seem to fit in this tangled web.

Poor poor Kyron. :(

CoCo, The more info that is coming out, the more I am evaluating the whole thing. Our theories could take several directions when hearing the various information. There has to be more behind this story, leading up to what has happened here.

It seems like the more K. controls things that are so minut and insignificant, the more he seems hinky in this mystery.

The whole turn of events with the quick divorce made me see things some what different.

What iF K. was home from work that day due to an all night argument about wanting a divorce, etc..?
What if K. had been verbally, mentally or physically abusive and very controlling to the boys and T..for sometime??

We've read what his brother has said about abuse as a child.

IF children are raised around/with
abuse, some grow up to repeat the abuse on those close to them...imo

I'm thinking out of the box here but:
Is it possible T. sent K. away like she did her own son, to save him and not to hurt him, in her mind??

socalgal2
07-04-2010, 11:05 AM
;)
I am willing to bet it is the first time TH is hearing of this. I still believe LE is releasing info to elicit a response from TH

This has been my opinion since week 2!:angel:

Thank You for posting your thoughts !

ClueMeIn
07-04-2010, 11:06 AM
Why does he need one? Custody issues or something else?

She is a family law attorney.

Day Dreamer
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
OMG! WTH?? I seriously did not see this coming. Talk about blind sided! Obviously, there is a lot more going on than any of us could ever have imagined.

I will tell you w/ this new information, not only am I off the fence now .... that dang fence got blown all to Kingdom Come!!

Wrinkles
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Hmmm...

Don't know where everyone has gone with this thread yet...trying to catch up on reading...

But does anyone remember this?

Williamette Weekly article (http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/28/a-visit-with-terri-moulton-horman-and-whats-changed-at-the-house-this-week/)

>>That left us with small talk. I complimented her on the family’s hilly one-acre yard, asking whether the family might be planning to make a large unmowed patch at the center into a garden. She said no, and commented on the difficulties of keeping up the property.<<

Maybe the WW knew something about this gardener thing and was trying to make small talk about the need for a gardener and why???

CCup
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Why does he need one? Custody issues or something else?

Is this woman his divorce laywer? That would explain the need for a lawyer!

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
Kaine makes a good bit of money at Intel but his last house was not in the greatest neighborhood. This new house they live(d) in now still seems less than what they could afford on his salary. I think Kaine had money troubles somehow and he was worth more to Terri dead than alive.

He might be having money problems, or he might be one of those smart people who lives below his means and can afford to do so. If that's the case, and Terri is a live above your means type person, that could cause conflict. Major conflict, I'd say, because I've read many times that financial disagreements are the one of the main causes of marital disharmony and divorce.

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 11:07 AM
I wonder what made them search him out?


Wait....did LE seek this guy out or did he eventually contact LE?

Cause if he was sitting on this information for about 5 months, Kryon disappears, and he just sits and waits to see if LE contacts HIM without calling THEM first????? :waitasec:

Surely, I have this wrong, right?

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:08 AM
Is this woman his divorce laywer? That would explain the need for a lawyer!

Yep. She's a divorce/child custody attorney.

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:08 AM
I will tell you w/ this new information, not only am I off the fence now .... that dang fence got blown all to Kingdom Come!!

I'm tilting a lot ... any minute now, I may fall off.

STEADFAST
07-04-2010, 11:09 AM
I just woke up, and there's an 11-page long thread with a massively shocking headline??!! How can a case with no information get so twisted and complicated? Okay, I'll go read.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:09 AM
Wait....did LE seek this guy out or did he eventually contact LE?

Cause if he was sitting on this information for about 5 months, Kryon disappears, and he just sits and waits to see if LE contacts HIM without calling THEM first????? :waitasec:

Surely, I have this wrong, right?

From my understanding, LE found out about the landscaper and found out that Terri had apparently hired a landscaper without consulting with Kaine first. So, LE approached the landscaper....the landscaper didn't willingly go to LE.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 11:10 AM
I just woke up, and there's an 11-page long thread with a massively shocking headline??!! How can a case with no information get so twisted and complicated? Okay, I'll go read.

See - there's your problem, Steadfast. Never sleep, and the threads won't sneak up on you.

We're all gonna get air traffic controller stress from monitoring a case this bizarre.

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 11:10 AM
Hmmm...

Don't know where everyone has gone with this thread yet...trying to catch up on reading...

But does anyone remember this?

Williamette Weekly article (http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/28/a-visit-with-terri-moulton-horman-and-whats-changed-at-the-house-this-week/)

>>That left us with small talk. I complimented her on the family’s hilly one-acre yard, asking whether the family might be planning to make a large unmowed patch at the center into a garden. She said no, and commented on the difficulties of keeping up the property.<<

Maybe the WW knew something about this gardener thing and was trying to make small talk about the need for a gardener and why???

Hmmm....VERY good point when you think back to the aftermath media coverage of this reporter showing up at house. Reporter was doing interviews all over repeatedly making reference to the fact that he and Terri ONLY talked about the landscaping....even went into detail about a particular patch of grass in yard that remained uncut and he questioned her if she was planning on making a garden in that area...thought it was odd at the time....but YOU are now making a lot of sense!!!

Cappy
07-04-2010, 11:11 AM
I don't think he came forward at all. I think LE somehow figured it out and went to him.

Yep, that's what I'm thinking. Probably found him on her cell phone or computer.

bessie
07-04-2010, 11:11 AM
Wait....did LE seek this guy out or did he eventually contact LE?

Cause if he was sitting on this information for about 5 months, Kryon disappears, and he just sits and waits to see if LE contacts HIM without calling THEM first????? :waitasec:

Surely, I have this wrong, right?
It seems LE sought him out.
After Kyron disappeared June 4, investigators with the county's Major Crimes Team tracked down the landscaper in the course of trying to interview everyone who had contact with the boy's family. They also found it odd that Terri Horman had hired a landscaper without her husband's knowledge.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

CharlestonGal
07-04-2010, 11:12 AM
Maybe Terri is not the one who wanted a divorce. Maybe Kaine wanted a divorce and Terri was afraid he'd take the baby, the house, the money, the car and everything else. From the body language at the press conferences, Kaine is the one who wanted nothing to do with Terri, no matter how much she tried to cling to him.

Maybe she figured she'd kill him before she allowed him to divorce her and take everything. Maybe Kyron saw/heard something he was not supposed to see/hear.

Maybe landscaper guy has some kind of record or history that made Terri believe he'd be open to a murder for hire plot. Maybe she was just desperate and asked more than one person to help her.

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 11:12 AM
From my understanding, LE found out about the landscaper and found out that Terri had apparently hired a landscaper without consulting with Kaine first. So, LE approached the landscaper....the landscaper didn't willingly go to LE.

Well, that certainly changes things in my head :furious:

This sweet boy's face is being broadcast not only locally, but nationally, and this landscaper never had the fortitude to pick up the phone and call LE and state "You know....funny thing happened a few months ago......"

Susan10
07-04-2010, 11:13 AM
How do you hire a lawnman and your husband not know?
Only come between certain hours on certain days?
Not sure how that works.

Some husbands aren't that hard to fool.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:14 AM
Well, that certainly changes things in my head :furious:

This sweet boy's face is being broadcast not only locally, but nationally, and this landscaper never had the fortitude to pick up the phone and call LE and state "You know....funny thing happened a few months ago......"

Haha yep. Due to the fact that he apparently didn't think it was appropriate to phone this little tip into LE makes me think that he may have actually agreed to this proposition by Terri..but was waiting for the correct time, a down payment, etc.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:14 AM
Some husbands aren't that hard to fool.

Especially if you're conveniently only having the landscaper come on days when your husband is working, paying him with cash or a secret bank account, etc.

Calliope
07-04-2010, 11:15 AM
Maybe Terri is not the one who wanted a divorce. Maybe Kaine wanted a divorce and Terri was afraid he'd take the baby, the house, the money, the car and everything else. From the body language at the press conferences, Kaine is the one who wanted nothing to do with Terri, no matter how much she tried to cling to him.

Maybe she figured she'd kill him before she allowed him to divorce her and take everything. Maybe Kyron saw/heard something he was not supposed to see/hear.

Maybe landscaper guy has some kind of record or history that made Terri believe he'd be open to a murder for hire plot. Maybe she was just desperate and asked more than one person to help her.

She'd have to have known him personally. Which I believe she did.

He wasn't her 'landscaper' IMO.

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 11:15 AM
Maybe Terri is not the one who wanted a divorce. Maybe Kaine wanted a divorce and Terri was afraid he'd take the baby, the house, the money, the car and everything else. From the body language at the press conferences, Kaine is the one who wanted nothing to do with Terri, no matter how much she tried to cling to him.

Maybe she figured she'd kill him before she allowed him to divorce her and take everything. Maybe Kyron saw/heard something he was not supposed to see/hear.

Maybe landscaper guy has some kind of record or history that made Terri believe he'd be open to a murder for hire plot. Maybe she was just desperate and asked more than one person to help her.

Which brings me back to the comment I have posted a few times previously....

During the very first family comments to media, made by Desiree's sister, she stated, "Desiree knows a lot she wants to talk about but cannot right now in order to avoid tainting the investigation".

I would still like to hear what Desiree may eventually be able to share....

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:16 AM
She'd have to have known him personally. Which I believe she did.

He wasn't her 'landscaper' IMO.

EXACTLY. I've been saying that since I first read this thread. There's no way I believe that this landscaper was just a landscaper.

adh74
07-04-2010, 11:16 AM
Well, I have not read the whole thread yet, but the timing co-incides with the charges against KH's brother. What if TH figured out something about her own son as a victim which is why she sent him away? With Kyron....she would have no authority to decide to send him away, but if she were desperate to protect him from a person or persons who she knew were hurting him....she MIGHT have done something drastic to get him out of there.

jmo

Unless her brother-in-law was able to give her some hook-up on those who she might be able to sell little Kyron to for $$$$$ to pay the hitman to get rid of her husband for her so she could have the baby all to herself and live on the insurance money.

oxymoran
07-04-2010, 11:17 AM
Since it was revealed in early June that Terri moved in with Kaine to take care of Kyron when mom was sick, I've been unable to get the movie, "Hand That Rocked the Cradle", out of my mind. IIRC, the family in the movie was also based in the Pacific Northwest.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104389/

Maybe worth another watch!

Calliope
07-04-2010, 11:18 AM
Haha yep. Due to the fact that he apparently didn't think it was appropriate to phone this little tip into LE makes me think that he may have actually agreed to this proposition by Terri..but was waiting for the correct time, a down payment, etc.

I think we'll see the landscaper charged, but those charges will be scaled down dramatically from what he could be facing. IMO, he's cut a deal with prosecutors.

Haeve
07-04-2010, 11:18 AM
<snip>
This opens more cans of worms, IMO...what could Kaine have done to push his wife into thoughts of murder???

<snip>

I dunno, I've been with some real prizes (sarcasm) as far as men go, and I certainly moved out, but I never considered murdering them!

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:19 AM
I think we'll see the landscaper charged, but those charges will be scaled down dramatically from what he could be facing. IMO, he's cut a deal with prosecutors.

Agreed. I give it about...12 hours until he lawyers up.

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:20 AM
Some husbands aren't that hard to fool.

I have one of those, and I just called him to tell him how lucky he is to have a trustworthy wife (a good excuse for updating him on the case).

kgeaux
07-04-2010, 11:22 AM
I've only read thru the first couple of pages, so maybe my questions will be answered later on, but:


Question: Why didn't the landscaper come forward to the cops 6 to 7 months ago telling them that about this murder for hire scheme? It could've saved Kyron's life.

That is my first question. I would imagine that most honest citizens would report such a thing immediately. I know I would. My second question is.......what is it about this guy that would make someone even think about approaching him with such a request????


You may be right. The landscaper said she offered him a large sum of money. I don't know where she would get that kind of money. I am sure Kaine must participate in the families finances but maybe not. I hope they are checking out any money that may be missing from the families accounts. I wouldn't have thought it before but now I am thinking she may be that crazy. Maybe that is what Kaine and Desiree are thinking too, that's why they think he's alive.

Actually, the paper says she offered the landscaper a large amount of money. The only thing the landscaper actually confirmed, according to the article, was that he did do work at the home.


I do not believe that LE would have reported this to him unless there was a credible threat. That would the the ultimate in pot stirring. Now we also know why she went out and hired a criminal defense attorney out of the gate.

We do not know who the source is for this information. The whole article is amazingly unsourced, isn't it? The paper reports that LE told dad and mom this information shortly before he left Terri, but the paper does not say who told THEM.

tfrohning
07-04-2010, 11:23 AM
I would think that LE also took the computer... I would hope and the cell phones too.

I got a feeling that even if this hit was carry out that Kyron would still come up missing.

the dots are connecting.

Here some links that also were just crazy

NYC Wife Accused Of Hiring Hit Man To Kill Husband
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/wife.hires.hitman.2.1772833.html

Barbara Kay: First, kill the husband. Second, claim sympathy as a widow
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/06/14/barbara-kay-first-kill-the-husband-second-claim-sympathy-as-a-widow/

Fla. Police: Newlywed Wife Hires Hit Man to Kill Husband
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8262121

and the links go on and on. The crazy part here is a little boy is missing and if she was crazy to try to hire a hiitman what did she do to little Kyron :(

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 11:24 AM
EXACTLY. I've been saying that since I first read this thread. There's no way I believe that this landscaper was just a landscaper.

I agree - but it doesn't necessarily have to be an affair. I do think they would have had to have some conversation between them, but for all we know she had learned he was going through a messy divorce, and she figured he'd understand, etc, etc. They likely were friends, or became friends through the course of his work, etc.

Not saying any opinions on here are wrong - just saying we don't really have a lot of info from which to jump to conclusions, KWIM?

Cappy
07-04-2010, 11:24 AM
I am willing to bet it is the first time TH is hearing of this. I still believe LE is releasing info to elicit a response from TH

IMO, LE needs a little more to take her into custody and charge her. She has what everyone calls "a high powered criminal defense attorney" now who will not allow her to speak or be interviewed by police so.....they're starting to slowly turn the screws on her until they get what they need.

bessie
07-04-2010, 11:24 AM
Some husbands aren't that hard to fool.
True, but didn't he wonder who was cutting the grass?

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 11:24 AM
She'd have to have known him personally. Which I believe she did.

He wasn't her 'landscaper' IMO.

This is reminiscent to the recent case depicted on NG a few months ago of "Newlywed Bride Hires Hitman". Bride of 6 months meets new guy at gym, bumps uglies with him a few times and figures she has him in her pocket now, so asks him to kill her supposed abusive husband. He goes straight to LE and they set him up with undercover "hitman" and set up meeting with bride about "hit" in SUV with hidden cameras rolling, where she completely implicates herself but what is interesting is listening to how trusting she seems to be of these "new fellas"....

Women like this seem to think sex buys them loyalty...could be the case here, difference being Terri didn't have availability to the downpayment funds yet?

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:26 AM
True, but didn't he wonder who was cutting the grass?

No, because the "landscaper" wasn't actually doing it. :)

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:26 AM
Maybe the landscaper said no, and Terri told him she was just joking, and he believed her.

If someone asked me to kill another person for them, I would be shocked to be asked and shocked that anyone would want to hire a killer.

I would dither around about whether to call LE. I might decide that the inquirer was joking and not do that. It is just so far outside my frame of reference that anyone I know would be serious about hiring a killer and that they would approach me.

BUT when I found out something like Kyron going missing happened, I'd contact LE that instant!

Edited to add: On second thought, since I would tell my husband (I tell him everything), I know for sure he would go directly to LE himself if I didn't agree to it. And he'd come with me to the police station. He doesn't dither.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:27 AM
This is reminiscent to the recent case depicted on NG a few months ago of "Newlywed Bride Hires Hitman". Bride of 6 months meets new guy at gym, bumps uglies with him a few times and figures she has him in her pocket now, so asks him to kill her supposed abusive husband. He goes straight to LE and they set him up with undercover "hitman" and set up meeting with bride about "hit" in SUV with hidden cameras rolling, where she completely implicates herself but what is interesting is listening to how trusting she seems to be of these "new fellas"....

Women like this seem to think sex buys them loyalty...could be the case here, difference being Terri didn't have availability to the downpayment funds yet?

Maybe a TOTAL longshot here..but what if Terri sold Kyron in order to pay the down payment?

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 11:27 AM
No, because the "landscaper" wasn't actually doing it. :)

Is "landscaper" what they have in Oregon instead of pool boys?

grandmaj
07-04-2010, 11:28 AM
OK guys........ dealio here......... NO name calling. No calling her nuts or psycho none of that :nono: Yikes.....

Remember our manners here. This is quite the turn of events. But let's remember our rules..

Everyone take time to review them. With this turn of events things are going to move very quickly.... please let's do it right.

Thanks......

Haeve
07-04-2010, 11:29 AM
Interesting ...

If this is true ...

Does this line up with when her older son was sent to live with his father?

Could hiding Kyron be retribution for sending her son away?



Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread yet. But do we even know for sure that Kaine "sent KHB away"? Somewhere it says that Kaine "butted heads" with KHB, but that doesn't add up to "sent away". All we know is that he went to live with his bio-dad, right? Do we know Kaine sent him away or are we just speculating.

I "butted heads" with my mother and moved out *by my own choice* my junior year in high school. I moved in with my dad. A year later, I was out on my own. By my own choice. Both of my parents have serious issues, and mom is in fact certifiable, and I was a mildly troubled teenager so I "butted heads" with both of them. But no one "sent me away".

Back on topic. I don't care if Kaine was the biggest &^%$@# on the planet (I personally have my doubts about that), *you don't consider having him murdered*. Poor Kyron, I hope he's safe.

PoppyH
07-04-2010, 11:31 AM
Last year I finally admitted I couldn't tame my yard, so I hired a landscaper. Although we have had a good working relationship and he's quite approachable, I can't imagine just walking up one day and saying, "I'd like azaleas here and rhododendrons there and oh by the way, how much extra would you charge to kill my husband?"

Yup, Plant the Roses, and oh by the way, when you are done, please plant my husband:banghead:

Shutterfly
07-04-2010, 11:33 AM
Maybe Terri is not the one who wanted a divorce. Maybe Kaine wanted a divorce and Terri was afraid he'd take the baby, the house, the money, the car and everything else. From the body language at the press conferences, Kaine is the one who wanted nothing to do with Terri, no matter how much she tried to cling to him.

Maybe she figured she'd kill him before she allowed him to divorce her and take everything. Maybe Kyron saw/heard something he was not supposed to see/hear.

Maybe landscaper guy has some kind of record or history that made Terri believe he'd be open to a murder for hire plot. Maybe she was just desperate and asked more than one person to help her.

I think TH believed KaH was going to go back to DY and possibly that he was unfaithful with DY. I predict TY will be the next one distancing himself from this catastrophic nightmare......jmo.

Kinda funny, two marriages that seem to fall apart surrounding a pregnancy. DY filed for divorce when she was eight months pregnant. TH was allegedly trying to have KaH off'ed when her baby was about a year old, which means there must have been problems prior to that. I'm gonna one up it and guess TH got pregnant on purpose, trying to save her marriage and hang onto KaH.

If TH believed KaH was going to go back to DY, it manifests a perfect storm. What better way to punish both KaH and DY permanently for "depriving TH of everything she has." Poof, KyH gone....and TH has all the power to make their lives miserable like she thinks they made hers.

Do I believe anyone else is responsible? No, not directly, but something leads a person to do this if they aren't mentally derranged, and I don't believe she is. I do believe that TH knows exactly where KyH is because I believe she put him where he is.

I wonder who's taking care of that precious little red haired baby now? I'd almost be willing to bet it's DY.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 11:34 AM
Maybe the landscaper said no, and Terri told him she was just joking, and he believed her.

If someone asked me to kill another person for them, I would be shocked to be asked and shocked that anyone would want to hire a killer.

I would dither around about whether to call LE. I might decide that the inquirer was joking and not do that. It is just so far outside my frame of reference that anyone I know would be serious about hiring a killer and that they would approach me.

BUT when I found out something like Kyron going missing happened, I'd contact LE that instant!

Edited to add: On second thought, since I would tell my husband (I tell him everything), I know for sure he would go directly to LE himself if I didn't agree to it. And he'd come with me to the police station. He doesn't dither.

I totally agree with this. Many people would think long and hard before getting involved with LE over something that sounded so bizarre - besides, for all we know this guy had had dealings with LE in the past that made him reluctant to get involved with them again.

BUT - you are correct - I get hung up, as well, on not reporting this when Kryon's case hit the media. In light of that, it surely must have seemed significant.


ETA: Then again, I think a lot of people would think twice about contacting LE in any case, no matter what. This story came out at 4am, and on this thread we already have the guy indicted, so I don't know if I blame people for not wanting to get involved with things. The bigger the case the more invasive the spotlight on your life, no matter how involved you are. MOO.

Bathbuddys
07-04-2010, 11:35 AM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

Of course this comes out at 4:00 in the morning and no one is around to talk to about it!
This answers the questions as to why the restraining order. It also says that Kaine was not home when 911 was called last week.
I don't know if it's true or not but it sure raises more questions then ever. If it is true then Terri is much more unstable then previously thought. And why would she want to get rid of Kaine? I dismissed the specuation that she was having an affair but this really opens up that possibility. And why would she get rid of Kyron if it was Kaine that she wanted to eliminate? Can this situation get any stranger?

Oh my why get rid of Kyron?, to hurt Kaine more than anything could. That is the ultimate cause of pain to a parent, just like the inmate did to her mother Cindy.

bessie
07-04-2010, 11:36 AM
We do not know who the source is for this information. The whole article is amazingly unsourced, isn't it? The paper reports that LE told dad and mom this information shortly before he left Terri, but the paper does not say who told THEM.
respectfully snipped

Journalists don't have to reveal their sources. The Oregonian is a mainstream news outlet that has been around for 160 years and is the most widely circulated daily newpaper in Oregon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oregonian

I, personally, am confident in their credibility in reporting on this incident with the landscaper, and can't imagine that they would risk that credibility by reporting such a "bombshell" without completing the requisite fact-checking.
MOO...MOO

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:39 AM
Is "landscaper" what they have in Oregon instead of pool boys?

:waitasec:We used to call today's landscaper "the yard man" in the South.

Oh, I just got what you were saying. Very clever. :-)

Emeralgem
07-04-2010, 11:39 AM
Hmmm....VERY good point when you think back to the aftermath media coverage of this reporter showing up at house. Reporter was doing interviews all over repeatedly making reference to the fact that he and Terri ONLY talked about the landscaping....even went into detail about a particular patch of grass in yard that remained uncut and he questioned her if she was planning on making a garden in that area...thought it was odd at the time....but YOU are now making a lot of sense!!!

I thought it was odd too..Now I suspect that is one of the reasons Kaine requested the WW leave the press conference if the Oregonian was attempting to leak out information The Team wanted kept under wraps..
Also, If all this is true wonder IF Terri became suspicious when the WW reporter questioned her about the upkeep of the lawn.. JMO

helpfulcharlie
07-04-2010, 11:41 AM
"EVERYTHING IS GOOD!"

Terri Horman June 28, 2010

LOL, the Portland Minister of Information

bessie
07-04-2010, 11:43 AM
No, because the "landscaper" wasn't actually doing it. :)
Maybe that question popped out at me because I'm having an argument with my husband. I want him to do a few things to help me get ready for a party we're going to later (so I can spend a little more time on WS), and he says he can't because he has to cut the grass. :D

I might have to hire one of them "landscapers", myself. ;)

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:45 AM
ETA: Then again, I think a lot of people would think twice about contacting LE in any case, no matter what. This story came out at 4am, and on this thread we already have the guy indicted, so I don't know if I blame people for not wanting to get involved with things. The bigger the case the more invasive the spotlight on your life, no matter how involved you are. MOO.

That's a real good point.

oxymoran
07-04-2010, 11:46 AM
The Oregonian story has already been updated since it was originally published at 4am. Did anyone save a copy of the 4am version?...it would interesting to compare it to the new 8am version.

debirlfan
07-04-2010, 11:46 AM
I can see a couple possible reasons why TH might ask the landscaper - and a few reasons why he might keep quiet.

1. The most obvious - he's illegal.
2. Perhaps she had hired him because he had been out rapping on doors and looking for work - and mentioned being desperate (ie, out of work, loosing his house, etc.)
3. She knew he was involved in something else illegal (selling drugs/steroids, tried to sell her some stolen merchandise, she caught him trying to steal something from her, etc.)

stmarysmead
07-04-2010, 11:48 AM
We know for a fact that Terri Horman has been divorced twice before. So she has expertise in leaving a marriage without having to murder.

She has left the first marriage with her child, and the second with a man she let adopt her child. So she has expertise in how to get custody.

If she wants revenge, taking the little girl and leaving him to have to care for his son alone, would no doubt cause some hurt and disruption to Kaine. She knows THAT from her past as well.

So, if this accusation of a murder plot is true, what is different that Terri needs to murder to get out of this marriage? Or murder to "get revenge?"

Well, she might want money this time. The last divorce left her so poor she had to move in as a babysitter for a friend's child to get a roof over her head. She may not want THAT again.


Or she might want to keep both children. Murdering her husband might be the only way she gets to keep Kyron.


So when the murder for hire falls through, she goes to plan B.

Either stash Kyron, if this is about the kids, and then file for divorce.

Or, if her motive is revenge and only revenge...kill her husband's only child. Then file for divorce, because with only himself to support, Kaine might have to provide her and her child a larger settlement.

By the way, I agree, the no matter how obnoxious anyone thinks Kaine is...because his his demeanor at press conferences...the only indications we have seen of the possibility for real evil...has been in the alleged actions of Terri.

RoughlyCollie
07-04-2010, 11:48 AM
he says he can't because he has to cut the grass. :D

Tell him you'll let him live if he cuts the grass. :-)

My husband usually humors me when I say something like that.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 11:49 AM
That's a real good point.

I just have real concerns about what effects the 24 hour media and the internet are having and will have on potential witnesses. It's to the point where even I, with as much respect as I have for LE, would take a moment to count my skeletons before I spoke up.

BeanE
07-04-2010, 11:49 AM
Investigators: No comment on Horman murder-for-hire accusations
Paper says Terri Horman plotted to kill husband
The Portland Tribune, Jul 4, 2010, Updated 28 minutes ago

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127825632045084200

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:50 AM
I can see a couple possible reasons why TH might ask the landscaper - and a few reasons why he might keep quiet.

1. The most obvious - he's illegal.
2. Perhaps she had hired him because he had been out rapping on doors and looking for work - and mentioned being desperate (ie, out of work, loosing his house, etc.)
3. She knew he was involved in something else illegal (selling drugs/steroids, tried to sell her some stolen merchandise, she caught him trying to steal something from her, etc.)

4. He has a rap sheet with the law/bad history with police.
5. He was actually planning on taking her up on the hit man offer, but hasn't had the chance yet/doesn't have the down payment/etc.
6. He thought she was joking, so he never thought to contact LE.
7. She paid him to keep quiet.
8. She threatened him to keep quiet.

darlin gal
07-04-2010, 11:50 AM
Investigators are declining to confirm or deny published accusations that Terri Horman tried to hire someone to kill her husband seven or so months ago.
"The Multnomah County Sheriffs Office has no comment," Lt. Mary Lindstrand, the office's public information officer, told the Portland Tribune.


http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127825632045084200

bessie
07-04-2010, 11:50 AM
I can see a couple possible reasons why TH might ask the landscaper - and a few reasons why he might keep quiet.

1. The most obvious - he's illegal.
2. Perhaps she had hired him because he had been out rapping on doors and looking for work - and mentioned being desperate (ie, out of work, loosing his house, etc.)
3. She knew he was involved in something else illegal (selling drugs/steroids, tried to sell her some stolen merchandise, she caught him trying to steal something from her, etc.)
My first thought was that he kept quiet because he's illegal. But here's something I overlooked in my first read that sheds light on how she found him:

She reportedly offered the landscaper, who advertises his expertise in lawn care, a large sum of money to carry out the scheme, sources say.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 11:51 AM
I can see a couple possible reasons why TH might ask the landscaper - and a few reasons why he might keep quiet.

1. The most obvious - he's illegal.
2. Perhaps she had hired him because he had been out rapping on doors and looking for work - and mentioned being desperate (ie, out of work, loosing his house, etc.)
3. She knew he was involved in something else illegal (selling drugs/steroids, tried to sell her some stolen merchandise, she caught him trying to steal something from her, etc.)

Maybe also skuttlebutt - he might be the neighbour or friend of a friend of a friend, and she heard a rumour of something or other.

If they weren't lovers, it was still an awful risk to take.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:51 AM
Investigators: No comment on Horman murder-for-hire accusations
Paper says Terri Horman plotted to kill husband
The Portland Tribune, Jul 4, 2010, Updated 28 minutes ago

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127825632045084200

I would think, IF it weren't true, LE would quickly shoot these rumors down.

Kimster
07-04-2010, 11:53 AM
Is "landscaper" what they have in Oregon instead of pool boys?

Oregon is very green on the west side and landscapers are quite prominent. ;)

I have a house full of Oregonians right now and all of us are blown away at this turn of events! :eek:

Before anyone gets started, remember we aren't sleuthing the landscaper. :nono: We can question whether he told LE about this before now and that sort of thing, but leave his personal info out of it. Thanks!

debs
07-04-2010, 11:55 AM
They don't have to say a thing. Just asking someone to do that is conspiracy to commit murder, doesn't matter if she turned it around and said "haha, just a joke, I was kidding!" The act of asking is as illegal as the act of murder; it just doesn't have the same sentence.

Time to arrest her for that.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:55 AM
Here's more information on Stephen Houze, the attorney Terri has hired, if anyone is interested- http://www.shouze.com/

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 11:55 AM
They don't have to say a thing. Just asking someone to do that is conspiracy to commit murder, doesn't matter if she turned it around and said "haha, just a joke, I was kidding!" The act of asking is as illegal as the act of murder; it just doesn't have the same sentence.

Time to arrest her for that.

IMO, an arrest is coming but they have to have more evidence on the arrest warrant other than "well, the landscaper told us..".

grayjay
07-04-2010, 11:56 AM
4. He has a rap sheet with the law/bad history with police.
5. He was actually planning on taking her up on the hit man offer, but hasn't had the chance yet/doesn't have the down payment/etc.
6. He thought she was joking, so he never thought to contact LE.
7. She paid him to keep quiet.
8. She threatened him to keep quiet.
9. He wouldn't be able to prove it.

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 11:56 AM
I can see a couple possible reasons why TH might ask the landscaper - and a few reasons why he might keep quiet.

1. The most obvious - he's illegal.
2. Perhaps she had hired him because he had been out rapping on doors and looking for work - and mentioned being desperate (ie, out of work, loosing his house, etc.)
3. She knew he was involved in something else illegal (selling drugs/steroids, tried to sell her some stolen merchandise, she caught him trying to steal something from her, etc.)

And more importantly, is he a landscaper with a legitimate business...

or just a "guy with a mower"?????:waitasec:

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 11:56 AM
Rut Ruh. I just got here ... and I see we have a new, fireworks-ready thread on the forum!

Happy 4th Everyone!


P.S. Even on the mere thread title, I'd take the baby & run with a side order of restraining order and marriage dissolution.

Susan10
07-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Wait....did LE seek this guy out or did he eventually contact LE?

Cause if he was sitting on this information for about 5 months, Kryon disappears, and he just sits and waits to see if LE contacts HIM without calling THEM first????? :waitasec:

Surely, I have this wrong, right?

I think you have it right. It shocks me, too, that he would not have come forward at all and they had to find and question him.

TH can pick 'em. If true, this would mean that he's obviously a shady character and doesn't care about the welfare of anyone, man or child, only himself.

TGIRecovered
07-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Question: Why didn't the landscaper come forward to the cops 6 to 7 months ago telling them that about this murder for hire scheme? It could've saved Kyron's life.

(All of the following is just a theory, based only upon what we've read of Terri's history in the news and the landscaper's delay in reporting solicitation to cops.)

Haven't read thru the whole thread. Has anyone suggested the possibility that Terri might have initiated some type of sexual affair with the landscaper so that she could use that as a way of keeping him quiet about the murder-for-hire solicitation?

This is only speculation on my part, but if she came up with a plot to get rid of Kyron, she surely would need to have some leverage to keep landscaper from squealing about murder solicitation as soon as Kyron disappeared. What better way to do that, than to entice him into some free sex? She must have had some reason to believe he wouldn't go straight to the cops. Besides, Terri's history with husbands does make it appear that she makes sure to have her next lover "waiting in the wings" before she gets rid of the one she's got.

I'll bet that the landscaper has shared more info with LE than just what has been reported. Good for him, for having the courage to speak up, even if it is a little bit late! I hope he truly had no idea that Kyron was in danger!

socalgal2
07-04-2010, 12:02 PM
Hind sight is 20/20.

If I had ever been approached off the wall and been propositioned by someone I didn't know, I would have felt "is this lady serious? I would have said are you nuts lady and dismissed it as a joke.

Before WS I would have thought "what a wack job." then I would go about my busines as usual.

We don't know when this man told LE-remember this whole case has been tightly closed.

I find it disheartning that this man is being talked about here as the accomplice before we know the real FACTS

For all we know Terri approached others with her scheme!

:cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow::cow:

krowdkat
07-04-2010, 12:02 PM
I can see a couple possible reasons why TH might ask the landscaper - and a few reasons why he might keep quiet.

1. The most obvious - he's illegal.
2. Perhaps she had hired him because he had been out rapping on doors and looking for work - and mentioned being desperate (ie, out of work, loosing his house, etc.)
3. She knew he was involved in something else illegal (selling drugs/steroids, tried to sell her some stolen merchandise, she caught him trying to steal something from her, etc.)

Wasn't it reported that Terri wouldn't talk about the case (Kyron going missing) but did come out of her house to discuss with the local media how difficult the upkeep on her property was?!?

Egads!!!!

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 12:04 PM
My first thought was that he kept quiet because he's illegal. But here's something I overlooked in my first read that sheds light on how she found him:

She reportedly offered the landscaper, who advertises his expertise in lawn care, a large sum of money to carry out the scheme, sources say.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html


Just had a curious thought.....

Wasn't it reported that Terri hired this landscaper and supposively solicited him for "murder for hire" about 5 - 7 months ago?

Not sure since I live in the deep south, but weren't those of you living in the Portland area buried in snow about 5 - 7 months ago (approx Dec - Feb)??

Guess a landscaper needs to find a way to make a living during snow season too?

lightlady
07-04-2010, 12:05 PM
Where I live, most of the landscapers do snow removal as well in the off-season. However, it seems hard to believe I could hire someone to do snow removal without my husband knowing about it! Bizarre...

stmarysmead
07-04-2010, 12:06 PM
Just had a curious thought.....

Wasn't it reported that Terri hired this landscaper and supposively solicited him for "murder for hire" about 5 - 7 months ago?

Not sure since I live in the deep south, but weren't those of you living in the Portland area buried in snow about 5 - 7 months ago (approx Dec - Feb)??

Guess a landscaper needs to find a way to make a living during snow season too?

Good point. Some landscapers where I live here in the Midwest do snow removal in the Winter. Essential if you have a longer driveway....which I think they do.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Where I live, most of the landscapers do snow removal as well in the off-season. However, it seems hard to believe I could hire someone to do snow removal without my husband knowing about it! Bizarre...

Extremely. I can think of no morally sound reason why she would hire a landscaper behind her husbands back.

tehcloser
07-04-2010, 12:10 PM
Extremely. I can think of no morally sound reason why she would hire a landscaper behind her husbands back.

Me either....however, I have a neighbor that has a yard guy that hubs doesn't know about....she tells her hubs the SHE does it. lol.

JenB
07-04-2010, 12:12 PM
If he was going door-to-door offering to shovel driveways, I can see paying someone to do that and never mentioning it to my husband. Especially if he was traveling/busy, and I was stuck indoors keeping track of a baby, it's not a big deal and could be forgotten in a busy household.

Do I think Terri innocently failed to mention it? Nope.

grandmaj
07-04-2010, 12:14 PM
Thread closed for review...... everyone take a deep breath.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 12:31 PM
threadiquette folks. So has not been connected by main stream media with kyron's disappearance. He disappeared one month after kyron. For now that has nothing to do with this thread about the landscaper. 10-4 :nono:

10-4. :)

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 12:32 PM
Me either....however, I have a neighbor that has a yard guy that hubs doesn't know about....she tells her hubs the SHE does it. lol.

If I had a baby to watch, and a penny-watching husband who felt I should be able to do the yard work and watch the baby, but yet I had the money to hire someone... Seems like a possible non-scandalous reason to hire on the sly to me. Just a thought.

cluciano63
07-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Goodness, I was up posting until after 4am, must have missed this by minutes...this is a big "wow." At least it answers a ton of questions from the past week's events. But not at all sure where this fits in with Kyron, if at all...

LMax
07-04-2010, 12:33 PM
i do see an arrest coming very soon with the breaking of this news story today.....and why did they release it at 4am?.....weird
They knew people on the east coast would be checking news at that time...lol

grandmaj
07-04-2010, 12:34 PM
OK our TOS allows sleuthing of an SO if they live in the area. So another thread has been opened. Take that discussion there and not in this landscaper thread. Good Golly. Fireworks on the 4th of July..... :eek:

Excuse this brief commercial interruption. Things are happening fast. Yikes.....OK I think we have this down now.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 12:35 PM
Goodness, I was up posting until after 4am, must have missed this by minutes...this is a big "wow." At least it answers a ton of questions from the past week's events. But not at all sure where this fits in with Kyron, if at all...

I'm not sure if it fits in yet, or how..but all I know is it is going to sway people into the direction of no longer liking the stepmom...

Kentjbkent
07-04-2010, 12:36 PM
If he was going door-to-door offering to shovel driveways, I can see paying someone to do that and never mentioning it to my husband. Especially if he was traveling/busy, and I was stuck indoors keeping track of a baby, it's not a big deal and could be forgotten in a busy household.
Do I think Terri innocently failed to mention it? Nope.

So how would that work? :waitasec:

"I will let you shovel my driveway if you will kill my husband?" :banghead:

No More
07-04-2010, 12:36 PM
" They also found it odd that Terri Horman had hired a landscaper without her husband's knowledge. "

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

...and if Kaine had no knowledge of a landscaper, IMO it is a safe assumption that no work was done in the yard, otherwise Kaine would have seen it.

I think she contacted this person only with a hit in mind, and the person's profession is irrelevant.

Mylou
07-04-2010, 12:38 PM
Seems there are alot of things Kaine didn't know about.

razorback
07-04-2010, 12:38 PM
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Kyron%20Horman%20%20-OR-/

Hundreds if pics about the Kyron case.

Barry
07-04-2010, 12:39 PM
Off the fence again. However, the way this thing has been going, awaiting further news that puts me back on it again. :beamup:

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 12:39 PM
I think I'm confused by not knowing how big the landscaper's job was. If it was to move soil, etc, then naturally KH would notice. But if it was just mowing/snow removal, and he thought TH or someone was doing it, then perhaps not...?

For all we know, she hired someone to do it to avoid conflict between her husband and her teenaged son, who was "supposed" to do it. Hard to say, really. MOO, etc.

RandomThoughts
07-04-2010, 12:40 PM
And here I thought nothing could shock me after DD's driving lesson this morning. Guess next time I'll see if there's any news first! If true, this could explain a few things, but at the same time it raises a whole new set of questions.

mrsu
07-04-2010, 12:41 PM
She definitely had to have some kind of "personal" relationship with the landscaper. She obviously felt close enough to him to approach him with the subject. If not, could you imagine the conversation:

TH: "Wow, the yard is looking really great. Oh, and by the way, would you take $50K in exchange for killing my husband?" ;)

My guess is they got more info from the recorded convo between landscaper and TH than they are letting on. TH probably realized she was in big trouble at that point and that, along with the RO, is what prompted her to hire the attorney.

And regarding the LE.....does anyone really expect them to say anything but NO COMMENT?????????

Patty G
07-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Can we add "SOURCES" state to the title until LE confirms publically that this is fact?

cluciano63
07-04-2010, 12:44 PM
WCCOT...(we can't comment on that) is becoming a very useful phrase in this case, they should patent it.

This latest twist is just wrecking my idea of it all being a novel, because it has one plot too many...no one would be able to relate. An agent would say it is not believable...

songline
07-04-2010, 12:44 PM
Don't know what to say, but........I sure didn't expect THAT!!

What took him ALL THESE MONTHS to report any of this? :waitasec:
Does he have a motive to say any of that? And was it not the deep of winter when he claims he was working for her?
He should have gone to LE when it all supposedly happened -- months ago if she really offered him big money to off her husband. :waitasec:

Hard to know what to believe in this case. I do not believe him.

I dont believe any of it.
ALL I BELIEVE IS THERE IS A YOUG CHILD MISSING AND WE HAVE TO FIND HIM.
I did not really read the thread but it seems to me this case is insane.

carole
07-04-2010, 12:47 PM
What took him 10 months to report any of this? :waitasec:
Does he have a motive to say any of that?
Because he should have gone to LE 10 months ago if she really offered him big money to off her husband. :waitasec:

Hard to know what to believe in this case.

I dont believe any of it.
ALL I BELIEVE IS THERE IS A YOUG CHILD MISSING AND WE HAVE TO FIND HIM.

BBM

Well, LE and the courts obviously believe it. Kaine got custody of their daughter and a restraining order against Terri.

cluciano63
07-04-2010, 12:47 PM
If this is true, it takes away even more from the idea that Kyron is safe someplace...it shows me that Terri has no limits at all.

No More
07-04-2010, 12:50 PM
Here is a new thought to munch on...Maybe Terri sent her son away to protect him. Maybe she is hiding Kyron to protect him too. Maybe she wanted to have Kaine killed to protect the kids?

I don't believe that so much, but it would make more sense (if anything can make sense at this point).

No it would not make more sense, the obvious makes sense.

It is really amazing and stunning to imply that killing a a person is justified. Killing a father protects the children of that father?

Kaine is a victim, twice over now. So now people are implying that killing a living victim could have been justified? Please let's not justify conspiracy to commit murder.

winterrose
07-04-2010, 12:51 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

Of course this comes out at 4:00 in the morning and no one is around to talk to about it!
This answers the questions as to why the restraining order. It also says that Kaine was not home when 911 was called last week.
I don't know if it's true or not but it sure raises more questions then ever. If it is true then Terri is much more unstable then previously thought. And why would she want to get rid of Kaine? I dismissed the specuation that she was having an affair but this really opens up that possibility. And why would she get rid of Kyron if it was Kaine that she wanted to eliminate? Can this situation get any stranger?

If it's true that would be around the time when she sent her son to live with his Dad in January.Interesting,but why didn't the landscaper come forward when it happened?Makes me wonder what kind of a man gets asked that and doesn't say anything knowing a person's life is in danger.This keeps getting crazier.

Ms Suzanne
07-04-2010, 12:52 PM
I'm not sure if it fits in yet, or how..but all I know is it is going to sway people into the direction of no longer liking the stepmom...
I feel this is all BS.I feel this was done on purpose to smear the step mom Terri.It looks very obvious to me.At first NO ONE goes to the media.Now all this and it is all making her look bad.Very strange.It came out around 4:00 something to the media?I wonder who tipped them off.I really hope every one in this family and others are being looked at including this landscaper.

Haeve
07-04-2010, 12:53 PM
Just FYI, for those speculating about hiring landscapers in the winter, it doesn't actually snow that much in Western Oregon.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/pqr/pdxclimate/PG84.html

LaLaw2000
07-04-2010, 12:53 PM
:waitasec:We used to call today's landscaper "the yard man" in the South.

Oh, I just got what you were saying. Very clever. :-)

BBM:

My yard man is indeed just my yard man, LOL! I am in the south. Sometimes a yard man is really just a yard man. I make him take tomatoes home to his wife!

Bless his heart, he is just as old as I am and has grandchildren.

Sometimes I wish I had a pool man, but I have no pool and would have a hard time splainin' him to my neighbors!

Seriously, tho, I wish everyone would just tell the truth and bring Kyron home! I am so sick of hearing of missing and murdered precious children.

Chili Fries
07-04-2010, 12:54 PM
Does anyone remember exactly when the Snuggie picture was taken? In that picture, which I know was taken sometime last year, Terri looks very healthy. She looks markedly different now, like something has taken a toll on her body. I think something has definitely changed her in the last year, whether it's alcohol, depression or meds for a psychological condition I don't know but there is something.

snowshuze
07-04-2010, 12:55 PM
HOLY MOLY.


:eek:

Beyond Belief
07-04-2010, 12:57 PM
To believe or not to believe!? If this charge was true surely there would be an arrest already.

snowshuze
07-04-2010, 12:59 PM
To believe or not to believe!? If this charge was true surely there would be an arrest already.
My hope is that LE is riding this as far as it takes to bring that boy home, one way or another.

For The Kids
07-04-2010, 12:59 PM
I feel this is all BS.I feel this was done on purpose to smear the step mom Terri.It looks very obvious to me.At first NO ONE goes to the media.Now all this and it is all making her look bad.Very strange.It came out around 4:00 something to the media?I wonder who tipped them off.I really hope every one in this family and others are being looked at including this landscaper.

I assume its by looking into the landscaper that this came out..

She sure seems to be some woman :(

mrsu
07-04-2010, 12:59 PM
Hard to know what to believe in this case. I do not believe him.

I dont believe any of it.
ALL I BELIEVE IS THERE IS A YOUG CHILD MISSING AND WE HAVE TO FIND HIM.
I did not really read the thread but it seems to me this case is insane.

Why would he interject himself (not to mention his business reputation) in this case if there was no truth to it. Doesn't make any sense.

There could be many reasons, many suggested previously, as to why he may have not come forth sooner.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 01:00 PM
To believe or not to believe!? If this charge was true surely there would be an arrest already.

If the report that they tried to do a sting with her is to be believed, they must have been trying to get corroboration, and when that failed (IFCC, TH "shut the conversation down") they felt they couldn't follow through with charges on just the landscaper's word alone. That doesn't mean they don't believe him, though.

bessie
07-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Just had a curious thought.....

Wasn't it reported that Terri hired this landscaper and supposively solicited him for "murder for hire" about 5 - 7 months ago?

Not sure since I live in the deep south, but weren't those of you living in the Portland area buried in snow about 5 - 7 months ago (approx Dec - Feb)??

Guess a landscaper needs to find a way to make a living during snow season too?
I thought about that, too, and figured she might've hired him several months prior and had become acquainted with him before she popped the question. Perhaps something he told her about himself made her think he might go along with it. I am not point a finger at the landscaper, only speculating that some little thing he said fed into her "unusual" notions. I can't see her confronting a complete stranger with that proposition. OTOH, if she had no alterior motives when she hired him, why didn't she tell her husband. :waitasec:

I suppose snow removal makes sense. Living in the deep south, also, that didn't come to mind.

KaylynnCouture
07-04-2010, 01:00 PM
Why would he interject himself in this case if there was no truth to it. Doesn't make any sense.

There could be many reasons, many suggested previously, as to why he may have not come forth sooner.

He didn't interject himself in the case. LE found out, and pursued him.

Chablis
07-04-2010, 01:01 PM
Does anyone remember exactly when the Snuggie picture was taken? In that picture, which I know was taken sometime last year, Terri looks very healthy. She looks markedly different now, like something has taken a toll on her body. I think something has definitely changed her in the last year, whether it's alcohol, depression or meds for a psychological condition I don't know but there is something.

Where can I find this picture? TIA

razorback
07-04-2010, 01:03 PM
Where can I find this picture? TIA


http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Kyron%20Horman%20%20-OR-/

mrsu
07-04-2010, 01:05 PM
I feel this is all BS.I feel this was done on purpose to smear the step mom Terri.It looks very obvious to me.At first NO ONE goes to the media.Now all this and it is all making her look bad.Very strange.It came out around 4:00 something to the media?I wonder who tipped them off.I really hope every one in this family and others are being looked at including this landscaper.

Wasn't it reported somewhere that the media are being told what they can and can't report. That they have known some things but were told to sit on them? I think there was some reference made to this in the WW article. Perhaps they were given the go ahead to report on it and wanted to be the first news outlet to do so. Doesn't really seem suspicious to me.

bessie
07-04-2010, 01:06 PM
If this is true, it takes away even more from the idea that Kyron is safe someplace...it shows me that Terri has no limits at all.
I agree, BUT I'm trying to remain hopeful that besides telling KH about the alleged murder-for-hire plot, they also revealed something to him that accounts for the renewed optimism shown at the press briefing.

STEADFAST
07-04-2010, 01:10 PM
Just FYI, for those speculating about hiring landscapers in the winter, it doesn't actually snow that much in Western Oregon.

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/pqr/pdxclimate/PG84.html

The Hormans have a one-acre wooded property surrounding their house. There's plenty to do in the winter on that kind of property -- cleaning up debris and leaves, cutting back brush, removing dead tree limbs, etc.

From the WW article:



The rambling yard is completely surrounded by forest — no other houses and not even the road are visible once you’re up the driveway. . . .

That left us with small talk. I complimented her on the family’s hilly one-acre yard, asking whether the family might be planning to make a large unmowed patch at the center into a garden. She said no, and commented on the difficulties of keeping up the property. http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/06/28/a-visit-with-terri-moulton-horman-and-whats-changed-at-the-house-this-week/

Wrinkles
07-04-2010, 01:10 PM
Well, I have not read the whole thread yet, but the timing co-incides with the charges against KH's brother. What if TH figured out something about her own son as a victim which is why she sent him away? With Kyron....she would have no authority to decide to send him away, but if she were desperate to protect him from a person or persons who she knew were hurting him....she MIGHT have done something drastic to get him out of there.

jmo

Nothing I have read seems to indicate a huge protective spirit of TH for Kyron. To imagine the above would bend me way far out of reality.

Haeve
07-04-2010, 01:10 PM
Like several of you, I suspect the landscaper is in this country illegally. I don't want to get into the politics of immigration, but it is an ongoing issue here in Oregon. Threatening to turn someone into INS and get them deported might be sufficient to buy someone's silence after attempting to get them involved in something illegal. Lawn guys have families to feed just like everyone else.

Ms Suzanne
07-04-2010, 01:11 PM
He didn't interject himself in the case. LE found out, and pursued him.
I'm am very curious who told LE and when.Something is not right here.

stmarysmead
07-04-2010, 01:12 PM
I agree, BUT I'm trying to remain hopeful that besides telling KH about the alleged murder-for-hire plot, they also revealed something to him that accounts for the renewed optimism shown at the press briefing.

I wonder if she told the Landscaper that she wanted to kill her husband because she wanted to keep BOTH children, not just her own?

I don't know how these conversations go, but maybe he asked "Why kill him and not just leave?" Maybe she gave that motivation to justify a terrible request.

If that was the case, LE might have told the parents that stashing Kyron and then filing for divorce...might be her Plan B.

Maybe that us why Mom began her presser saying Kyron was alive and ended it begging Terri for help.

BlOnDe_GuRrL
07-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Who offers the landscaper $ to off their spouse?? I don't know if I believe this.. I would like to think Terri is smarter than that!
Probably just someone else trying to insert themselves in this case.

TrialAddict
07-04-2010, 01:14 PM
Did this guy go to LE before June 26th or did LE find him after the call he and Terri had. Was her phone tapped or did he use 3 way calling so LE could listen? If that is legal

Reality Orlando
07-04-2010, 01:15 PM
Does anyone remember exactly when the Snuggie picture was taken? In that picture, which I know was taken sometime last year, Terri looks very healthy. She looks markedly different now, like something has taken a toll on her body. I think something has definitely changed her in the last year, whether it's alcohol, depression or meds for a psychological condition I don't know but there is something.

Has there been anything said about her possibly using steroids for body building? I know I read somewhere that she was working out to compete in another competition soon, but from what I've seen, she doesn't look close to being in shape to compete. Steroids can have awful side effects:

"Psychological Effects

Administration of AS may affect behavior. Increased testosterone levels in the blood are associated with masculine behavior, aggressiveness and increased sexual desire. Increased aggressiveness may be beneficial for athletic training, but may also lead to overt violence outside the gym or the track. There are reports of violent, criminal behavior in individuals taking AS. Other side effects of AS are euphoria, confusion, sleeping disorders, pathological anxiety, paranoia, and hallucinations.

Anabolic steroid users may become dependent on the drug, with symptoms of withdrawal after cessation of drug use. The withdrawal symptoms consist of aggressive and violent behavior, mental depression with suicidal behavior, mood changes, and in some cases acute psychosis."

http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html

mrsu
07-04-2010, 01:15 PM
He didn't interject himself in the case. LE found out, and pursued him.

Yes, LE came across him in interviewing those associated with the family. He could have easily not mentioned anything about it since nothing ever came to be, but instead chose to be honest, therefore injecting himself and his business to public scrutiny. As a business owner myself, I can't see someone doing that if what they are saying isn't true...especially since it means associating himself with TH, who is not a very popular person right now.

I realize, it's the honest thing to do, but I can't see what he would have to gain by making something like this up?

songline
07-04-2010, 01:16 PM
Why would he interject himself (not to mention his business reputation) in this case if there was no truth to it. Doesn't make any sense.

There could be many reasons, many suggested previously, as to why he may have not come forth sooner.

I do not have an answer for you, nor do I know that h interjected himself. MAYBE he was just one of the people interviewd - someone close to the house who would see things and knows the child.
I think if there was merit to his story, he would have gone to LE when it happend. Why is he telling the story now? :waitasec:

wondering1
07-04-2010, 01:16 PM
I now wonder if she had been planning this for months, and was just waiting for the perfect opportunity (Science Fair / talent show day). I wouldn't be surprised if, in her own mind, she was very careful to project a "perfect step-mom" image beginning around the time her son was removed from the house. That way, if/when she succeeded in making Kyron disappear, maybe she thought people would look back and think how helpful she'd been with his schoolwork, how much volunteering she'd done up at school, etc., and would think, "Poor Terri!" rather than suspect the truth. Actually, maybe everyone's (anticipated) sympathy was just another fringe benefit in her mind.

I read a comment somewhere very early on addressing this topic from someone who was presenting themselves as if they knew what they were saying as an absolute fact. I'm pretty new here, though, I don't think it's allowed to post about what they said or where they said it, even in light of these developments. Someone let me know if I can. Otherwise I'll assume that I can't.

Tuffy
07-04-2010, 01:17 PM
I'm am very curious who told LE and when.Something is not right here.

No one told LE, they found him:

"After Kyron disappeared June 4, investigators with the county's Major Crimes Team tracked down the landscaper in the course of trying to interview everyone who had contact with the boy's family. They also found it odd that Terri Horman had hired a landscaper without her husband's knowledge."

This is from the article linked at the beginning of this thread.

krowdkat
07-04-2010, 01:17 PM
To believe or not to believe!? If this charge was true surely there would be an arrest already.

If LE didn't have cause to confiscate the home PC's, they certainly do now, right?!?

Wow, this case is just plain crazy!

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Did this guy go to LE before June 26th or did LE find him after the call he and Terri had. Was her phone tapped or did he use 3 way calling so LE could listen? If that is legal

This is what I read about the attempt to record corroboration:



Detectives with the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team shared the landscaper's account with Kyron's father, Kaine Horman, last weekend, prompting him to leave the house June 26 with the couple's 19-month-old daughter.

Within two days, he obtained a family law attorney and filed divorce papers and a petition for a restraining order under the Family Abuse Prevention Act.

Investigators also recorded a conversation June 26 among the cooperating landscaper, Terri Horman and an undercover law enforcement officer, but Horman shut down the conversation fairly quickly, sources said.

Detectives later confronted Terri Horman directly with the murder-for-hire allegation, which she denied, sources say. She has not been charged with a crime, as a criminal investigation proceeds.

From:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html


ETA: Thus, LE knew what this guy had to say before June 26th, and I take it that they attempted a three-way conversation... though the "among" usage there is a bit baffling.

ElizaAvalon
07-04-2010, 01:20 PM
I can think of at least 2 reasons why a landscaper might not want to rat Terri out:

- he may be an illegal alien. Many landscapers are from South America.
- he may not have a license and/or insurance to do landscaping work. (I am unsure of the laws in his state/county, but many places require both)

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:20 PM
Side note: Kaine hired an attorney.

"Laura Rackner, Kaine Horman's attorney, declined to comment Saturday night other than to say: "I just want to do whatever is going to help law enforcement right now."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

Laura Rackner is his DIVORCE attorney.

songline
07-04-2010, 01:21 PM
Yes, LE came across him in interviewing those associated with the family. He could have easily not mentioned anything about it since nothing ever came to be, but instead chose to be honest, therefore injecting himself and his business to public scrutiny. As a business owner myself, I can't see someone doing that if what they are saying isn't true...especially since it means associating himself with TH, who is not a very popular person right now.

I realize, it's the honest thing to do, but I can't see what he would have to gain by making something like this up?
I do not know what he has to gain....He should have gone to LE long ago, WHAT DID HE HAVE TO LOSE???
They are not deporting the illegals so what was he waiting for? IF SHE DID ask him to murder her husband? What was he doing still working for her? Why would he be working for a potential murderer? He knew that finger can point to him if anything did happen? Why didn't he run after that strange request?
I do not believe it...This case has many twists, and it seems Terry is getting the worst part of it all.

Barry
07-04-2010, 01:23 PM
This is what I read about the attempt to record corroboration:




From:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html


ETA: Thus, LE knew what this guy had to say before June 26th, and I take it that they attempted a three-way conversation... though the "among" usage there is a bit baffling.

We're not in Kansas anymore.

songline
07-04-2010, 01:23 PM
I can think of at least 2 reasons why a landscaper might not want to rat Terri out:

- he may be an illegal alien. Many landscapers are from South America.
- he may not have a license and/or insurance to do landscaping work. (I am unsure of the laws in his state/county, but many places require both)

She did not have the only Lawn in Town. Why would he stay after she may have asked him to murder someone?
I would run to the next Lawn - the next Street - the next Town.

wondering1
07-04-2010, 01:24 PM
Who offers the landscaper $ to off their spouse?? I don't know if I believe this.. I would like to think Terri is smarter than that!
Probably just someone else trying to insert themselves in this case.

You just never know. One of my classmates in LAW school was going through a messy divorce and she was busted and prosecuted for hiring someone to off her husband, right in the middle of the semester. One day she was sitting in the student lounge talking about torts and the next she was on the front page being arrested. She did/may still be doing time. She was just an average middle-aged woman going back to school after the kiddos were gone. You'd think someone in her position surely would know better, but quite the opposite. It was a pretty clear case. She was busted when the person she hired went to LE. An undercover agent got involved and she was quickly caught red-handed. I can't remember whether it was in with a phone call or in person, but I'm thinking it was a phone call involving the undercover agent.

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:24 PM
I can think of at least 2 reasons why a landscaper might not want to rat Terri out:

- he may be an illegal alien. Many landscapers are from South America.
- he may not have a license and/or insurance to do landscaping work. (I am unsure of the laws in his state/county, but many places require both)

That was my first thought. Out in western Portland and Washington County especially, there are a lot of central and south american landscapers. My landscaper is central american, as is my handyman. They are both of legal status, but many others are not. Also, a person could be legal, but they might have family members who are not. And there have been some serious raids here in Oregon. Besides, if he went to police, it could very easily have turned into his word against hers. Not saying he shouldn't have gone to police, but I can think of a lot of practical reasons why he might not have. In any case, I'm glad police found him and that he gave them what information he had.

AbbieNormal
07-04-2010, 01:24 PM
Maybe she was having an affair with him? Maybe the idea was to kill Kaine and live in the house with the gardener?

This case is actually making the Cummings and Anthonys look somewhat normal.

JMO

OMG and what a statement THAT is!!~!!

I honestly can't remember waking up to news on the internet such as this and being so flabbergasted, seriously.

This is a conniving husband and I am completely floored by this new developement.

Poor Kaine, even if he is a horrible husband, no person deserves to lose his child and then find out his wife wanted HIM killed. I really feel for what he is going through.

Also, whats he weather around Portland In January, isn't it cold and snowy, etc? Why call a landscaper at that time of year, unless its for snow removal?

STEADFAST
07-04-2010, 01:25 PM
This would sure explain why LE was staying with the Horman family 24/7 near the beginning of the case. Maybe when they just couldn't justify the man hours anymore, they advised Kaine to take his daughter and get out.

It could be there was a series of calls to this guy from Terri, but no yard work done, so he had to confess the reason for the calls. Or, it's possible he thought Terri wasn't serious when she contacted him, but then when Kyron went missing, he realized maybe she was. It's possible this guy didn't even know Kyron was missing before LE contacted him, especially if they went through Terri's phone calls right away. I get the feeling LE has know all about this from early on.

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 01:25 PM
I'm am very curious who told LE and when.Something is not right here.

About the landscaper? I'm getting the impression that many are not reading the article before posting.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

(snip)
After Kyron disappeared June 4, investigators with the county's Major Crimes Team tracked down the landscaper in the course of trying to interview everyone who had contact with the boy's family. They also found it odd that Terri Horman had hired a landscaper without her husband's knowledge.

Ms Suzanne
07-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Yes, LE came across him in interviewing those associated with the family. He could have easily not mentioned anything about it since nothing ever came to be, but instead chose to be honest, therefore injecting himself and his business to public scrutiny. As a business owner myself, I can't see someone doing that if what they are saying isn't true...especially since it means associating himself with TH, who is not a very popular person right now.

I realize, it's the honest thing to do, but I can't see what he would have to gain by making something like this up?
I'm very very curious who associated with this family or family said something.He's honest a few months later? Honestly I would be so bothered by this if someone just asked me to kill thier spouse or someone.I would have called the police.This would really bother me.Something is very not right here.It does get me to look at other persons of interest here.

krowdkat
07-04-2010, 01:26 PM
I do not have an answer for you, nor do I know that h interjected himself. MAYBE he was just one of the people interviewd - someone close to the house who would see things and knows the child.
I think if there was merit to his story, he would have gone to LE when it happend. Why is he telling the story now? :waitasec:

I think he (landscaper) told the story to LE more than a week ago. Maybe even as soon as a week after Kyron went missing. LE has kept things very close to the vest.

Only recently did KH file for divorce and RO.

It makes sense the LE has stated the public shouldn't be alarmed for their childrens' safety. Now it seems LE has informed KH that he should be concerned for his children. I don't see any other way to interpret it.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 01:27 PM
OMG and what a statement THAT is!!~!!

I honestly can't remember waking up to news on the internet such as this and being so flabbergasted, seriously.

This is a conniving husband and I am completely floored by this new developement.

Poor Kaine, even if he is a horrible husband, no person deserves to lose his child and then find out his wife wanted HIM killed. I really feel for what he is going through.

Also, whats he weather around Portland In January, isn't it cold and snowy, etc? Why call a landscaper at that time of year, unless its for snow removal?

Depends on how windy it is, and what kind of debris/tree damage, etc, is done. There's always cleanup to do in a yard, whether it be snow, grass, etc.

roseofsharon
07-04-2010, 01:27 PM
This is so weirdly NOT unheard of. There have been quite a few cases where someone approached a painter, yard guy, handyman, or similar worker and asked if either they could do, or knew someone they could contact to do a murder for hire (of husband, wife, son-in-law).

I am always totally shocked by that, because (1) the person asking for the service is some otherwise seemingly normal person, (2) why would someone assume that these people would be or know murderers, and (3) why would they assume they could trust them not to reveal their intentions.

In fact, many of the cases I have heard of, the person who was approached immediately went to cops, and that's how the person was caught (through a recorded set-up). It only makes me wonder how often this happens and no one does tell, or they really do commit the crime.

Just MOO, but mostly only in Hollywood -- movie set!

grandmaj
07-04-2010, 01:28 PM
While we allowed posters to comment that "maybe" steroids could be involved, it is getting to the point that many think it is a fact now. Plus, it is totally a generalizing comment that could include all body builders. I have family members who are into body building and fitness who do NOT use steroids. Unless someone can back up steroid use in this case, please refrain from using it as a basis for behavior. It is becoming a rumor at this point.

threadiquette is still in place here peeps.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Threadiquette & Forum Rules Updates ~ Ask Your Questions Here

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:29 PM
I do not know what he has to gain....He should have gone to LE long ago, WHAT DID HE HAVE TO LOSE???
They are not deporting the illegals so what was he waiting for? IF SHE DID ask him to murder her husband? What was he doing still working for her? Why would he be working for a potential murderer? He knew that finger can point to him if anything did happen? Why didn't he run after that strange request?
I do not believe it...This case has many twists, and it seems Terry is getting the worst part of it all.

Sorry, but illegal immigrants are absolutely being deported. I know of someone who was deported just a few months ago from Portland. He'd been in the country since he was a child (20 years) but his papers didn't get renewed for whatever reason, and he is back in a country where he has a 7 year old's grasp of the language, no job, and no family (his parents and most extended family all live in the US). And this guy has a BS in engineering from an American university.

In any case, I don't know if the landscaper is an immigrant. He could be Joe Bob from Banks who just doesn't like to deal with the police.

Can you point to where it says he continued to work for her after she allegedly made the request?

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:32 PM
Depends on how windy it is, and what kind of debris/tree damage, etc, is done. There's always cleanup to do in a yard, whether it be snow, grass, etc.

Yep. Not to mention, the weather in Portland is pretty mild year round, so things can get pretty out of control even in the winter. I've had my landscaper out in the winter months ... cleaning up, or trimming bushes, etc. Sometimes you also don't get around to doing that stuff at the end of the summer, and it can be faster and cheaper to schedule someone in the slow months.

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 01:32 PM
Well if the landscaper stayed quiet because he is illegal, he's proving right the concerns of LE all over the US. LE is concerned that crime will grow because illegals will be afraid of reporting it. Many LE also complain they are going to lose many of their informants.

Noway
07-04-2010, 01:33 PM
Wow! Wow! and Wow again!

Reannan
07-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Where can I find this picture? TIA

Was this the picture??
10057

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Well if the landscaper stayed quiet because he is illegal, he's proving right the concerns of LE all over the US. LE is concerned that crime will grow because illegals will be afraid of reporting it. Many LE also complain they are going to lose many of their informants.

IMO, you certainly don't have to be illegal to worry that reporting things will be more trouble than it's worth.

Ms Suzanne
07-04-2010, 01:34 PM
You just never know. One of my classmates in LAW school was going through a messy divorce and she was busted and prosecuted for hiring someone to off her husband, right in the middle of the semester. One day she was sitting in the student lounge talking about torts and the next she was on the front page being arrested. She did/may still be doing time. She was just an average middle-aged woman going back to school after the kiddos were gone. You'd think someone in her position surely would know better, but quite the opposite. It was a pretty clear case. She was busted when the person she hired went to LE. An undercover agent got involved and she was quickly caught red-handed. I can't remember whether it was in with a phone call or in person, but I'm thinking it was a phone call involving the undercover agent.
I think it speaks volumes to me the step mom Terri is not arrested right now for this(this accusation from the land scaper).Something is not right with this story.

JBean
07-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Please let's not get into an illegal alien debate. There is enough going on already.


Please read thewarof2010's posts for the latest information on the border situation,but let's not do it here. :)


thanks

Haeve
07-04-2010, 01:36 PM
I can think of at least 2 reasons why a landscaper might not want to rat Terri out:

- he may be an illegal alien. Many landscapers are from South America.
- he may not have a license and/or insurance to do landscaping work. (I am unsure of the laws in his state/county, but many places require both)

In Oregon, most people who are in the state illegally are from Mexico and Central America, not South America.

Landscape contracting (i.e. building retaining walls, installing irrigation, etc.) is heavily regulated in Oregon:


http://www.oregon.gov/LCB/index.shtml


I'm not sure about mere landscaping (i.e. mowing, weeding, pruning), etc. I have a friend who is self-employed as a gardener/handyman, and I don't think he needs a license.

easttexas
07-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Last year I finally admitted I couldn't tame my yard, so I hired a landscaper. Although we have had a good working relationship and he's quite approachable, I can't imagine just walking up one day and saying, "I'd like azaleas here and rhododendrons there and oh by the way, how much extra would you charge to kill my husband?"

O/T sorry but this cracked me up...as I was reading I just knew you were going to say oh by the way, how bout planting my husband right here!!

PickieChickie
07-04-2010, 01:36 PM
:furious:If what this landscaper claims is true and Terrie Horman did offer to pay him to murder Kaine:


Why didn't they report Terrie Horman to authorities immediately after she offered him money to murder Kaine Horman?

Why did it take law enforcement so long to find and interview the landscaper?

Why didn't the landscaper warn Kaine Horman about the fact Terrie wanted him dead?

If the landscaper was aware Kyron Horman was missing shortly after he disappeared and that Terrie Horman, the woman who approached him with an offer of money to murder her husband Kain Horman, why didn't he come forward of his own accord?

If Terrie hated Kaine so much as to want to pay someone to murder him, it is entirely possible she paid someone to murder Kyron or committed the murder herself.

If Terrie hated Kaine, she probably hated Kyron too and was really mean to him when Kaine wasn't around! :furious:

stmarysmead
07-04-2010, 01:37 PM
I do not know what he has to gain....He should have gone to LE long ago, WHAT DID HE HAVE TO LOSE???
They are not deporting the illegals so what was he waiting for? IF SHE DID ask him to murder her husband? What was he doing still working for her? Why would he be working for a potential murderer? He knew that finger can point to him if anything did happen? Why didn't he run after that strange request?
I do not believe it...This case has many twists, and it seems Terry is getting the worst part of it all.

She is getting the worst of it because:

She was the last known person seen with a missing child

Her cell phone pings apparently do not match her story.

There is a witness claiming she tried to hire him as a hit man and he is credible enough that LS informed her husband, and credible enough that a judge granted a protective order that removed her baby from her to an unknown "safe house."

This we know to date.

Of all of these, the truthful rendition of where she was and what she did is entirely in her control and her responsibility. A child is endangered. There is no circumstance AT ALL where misleading LE about your whereabouts under these conditions is not outrageous.

No one else was the last person with Kyron. Apparently everyone else's story of their whereabouts has checked out. No one has come forward yet to claim anyone else tried to hire a hit man.

Those are some of the reasons why "she is getting the worst of it." How can it be otherwise?

mrsu
07-04-2010, 01:37 PM
I do not know what he has to gain....He should have gone to LE long ago, WHAT DID HE HAVE TO LOSE???
They are not deporting the illegals so what was he waiting for? IF SHE DID ask him to murder her husband? What was he doing still working for her? Why would he be working for a potential murderer? He knew that finger can point to him if anything did happen? Why didn't he run after that strange request?
I do not believe it...This case has many twists, and it seems Terry is getting the worst part of it all.

Even if they aren't deporting illegals, the fear is very real for these people. I don't want to get into the politics of it all either, but he possibly has a family to support and children to feed and didn't want to chance that seeing as how nothing ever came to be. Perhaps he thought she wasn't serious? Perhaps she threatened him? Again, we do not know the whole story.

Also, nowhere have we read that he was still working for the family. Maybe he didn't associate with them anymore but his name came about as someone who had at one time associated with the family. If you look at the image of their house, as others speculated, it doesn't really look as if any "yard work" was actually done. Perhaps he was a landscaper, but really wasn't doing the "landscaping", if you know what I mean. *wink wink* If that's the case, and he does have a family, it could be another reason not to come forward.

IMO this case has too many "coincidences" (or twists) that point right back to Terri. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....or in this case, maybe if it looks like a squirrel...

:)

JBean
07-04-2010, 01:37 PM
well if she didn't hire him and didn't give him any money, what exactly would she be arrested for?

Barry
07-04-2010, 01:37 PM
I think it speaks volumes to me the step mom Terri is not arrested right now for this.Something is not right with this story.

Hi, I wondered that too. I think it must be they're not arresting her, but keeping her on a short leash so that they can find out what happened to Kyron or where he is.

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 01:38 PM
Murder and mulchers. Why didn't we think of that?

What more to say? - the morning sleuthing shift here has said almost everything on my list already... explains LE tunnel vision...

what a leak! including the lawnboy working UC with the FBI ... and all press is running with it?

Terri's cake is baked with just this part of the story. Not sure we even wait for frosting...so what are they waiting for, I wonder?

Fork please!

I have to think this story would not have come out if LE believed Kyron was in an arranged kidnapping situation. It would endanger Kyron. (Unless they know with certainty he is in the care of a loved one somewhere, who Terri duped, and is on his way home.)

JMHO

grandmaj
07-04-2010, 01:38 PM
please let's not get into an illegal alien debate. There is enough going on already.


Please read the warof2010's posts for the latest information on the border situation,but let's not do it here. :)


thanks

bump............

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Just had a curious thought.....

Wasn't it reported that Terri hired this landscaper and supposively solicited him for "murder for hire" about 5 - 7 months ago?

Not sure since I live in the deep south, but weren't those of you living in the Portland area buried in snow about 5 - 7 months ago (approx Dec - Feb)??


No. Portland is rarely buried in snow, and we got very little last year. The Hormans are up in the hills a bit, and probably got more than those downtown, but they have about an acre, and even in winter there is work that can be done in a piece of property that size. Like tree trimming, adding bark dust, replacing rocks, fixing stone walls, etc. Landscapers do a lot more than plant flowers and mow grass.

krowdkat
07-04-2010, 01:39 PM
Well if the landscaper stayed quiet because he is illegal, he's proving right the concerns of LE all over the US. LE is concerned that crime will grow because illegals will be afraid of reporting it. Many LE also complain they are going to lose many of their informants.

Very true, SuziQ. Also, I don't know if any of you watch "The first 48" but, most times detectives (investigating homicide) don't really give a ratz azz if you use or deal drugs or even prostitute yourself, as long as you help them solve an investigation, they don't charge you with certain illegal activities. Their main focus is who done the deed.

Ms Suzanne
07-04-2010, 01:40 PM
About the landscaper? I'm getting the impression that many are not reading the article before posting.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

(snip)
After Kyron disappeared June 4, investigators with the county's Major Crimes Team tracked down the landscaper in the course of trying to interview everyone who had contact with the boy's family. They also found it odd that Terri Horman had hired a landscaper without her husband's knowledge.
First if I may please say.I think the article is BS.I don't believe it.Something is not right with this story.It's just not.Someone just said someone told LE about this landscaper.I'm not sure what happened.If someone find out the truth of what really happened please let us know ok?

oxymoran
07-04-2010, 01:41 PM
Portland's own favorite daughter, Tonya Harding, is doubtless the early favorite to play Terry Horman in the inevitable made-for-tv movie.

Both have the same initials...both obsessed with physical fitness...bodybuilder/professional wrestler ...both are about 40 years old ...both kinda some sort of blond...etc. etc etc

BetteDavisEyes
07-04-2010, 01:41 PM
Whew! I just breezed through this entire thread and all I can say is, "Wow!" I'm almost speechless, but in the words of Alice, I'll say that this case just gets "curiouser and curiouser." I'm beginning to feel like I ate a few of those funky mushrooms, or that Mad Hatter put "something" in my tea, KWIM? :D

Have a safe and happy Fourth of July!

wondering1
07-04-2010, 01:42 PM
I think it speaks volumes to me the step mom Terri is not arrested right now for this.Something is not right with this story.

I'm sure she's not arrested b/c they couldn't get her to sink herself during the phone call. There are two major differences between this case and many others. First, a lot of time has passed since the original offer. Second, she is very aware that she is under intense scrutiny from the police, so it's not surprising that she wouldn't participate in a conversation that involved committing a (another?) crime. In the case of my classmate, she was in the middle of the plot when she was arrested and had no idea she was being investigated.

Doesn't mean TH is or isn't guilty, imo, just that they couldn't get the goods on her in the phone call. It may be that they never will if her dealings with the lawn dude were all verbal and its her word against his.

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 01:43 PM
well if she didn't hire him and didn't give him any money, what exactly would she be arrested for?

c'mon JBean. that would require some research. and it's a federal holiday. :D

but does that mean the RO was not necessary either?

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:43 PM
IMO, you certainly don't have to be illegal to worry that reporting things will be more trouble than it's worth.

Ha! True, that. Although there will be some things that make some people more cautious. Also, quite frankly, I'd be a little frightened if someone tried to hire me to kill their spouse. Wouldn't I be a "loose end?"

CharlestonGal
07-04-2010, 01:43 PM
well if she didn't hire him and didn't give him any money, what exactly would she be arrested for?

Solicitation of murder is a crime even if you don't go through with it. So is conspiracy.

liz b.
07-04-2010, 01:43 PM
Just when I thought this case couldn't get any more bizarre.... IT DID !!!

IF this is true it's very disturbing. IMO it shows that TH is capable of contemplating murder......

All JMO

PickieChickie
07-04-2010, 01:44 PM
You may be right. The landscaper said she offered him a large sum of money. I don't know where she would get that kind of money. I am sure Kaine must participate in the families finances but maybe not. I hope they are checking out any money that may be missing from the families accounts. I wouldn't have thought it before but now I am thinking she may be that crazy. Maybe that is what Kaine and Desiree are thinking too, that's why they think he's alive.

As Kaine's wife, maybe Terrie Horman is the beneficiary of a large life insurance policy and she promised the landscaper the payment would be made when she received payment.

For The Kids
07-04-2010, 01:44 PM
I do not know what he has to gain....He should have gone to LE long ago, WHAT DID HE HAVE TO LOSE???
They are not deporting the illegals so what was he waiting for? IF SHE DID ask him to murder her husband? What was he doing still working for her? Why would he be working for a potential murderer? He knew that finger can point to him if anything did happen? Why didn't he run after that strange request?
I do not believe it...This case has many twists, and it seems Terry is getting the worst part of it all.

Actually no - KYRON got the worst of it all :(

RandomThoughts
07-04-2010, 01:44 PM
She definitely had to have some kind of "personal" relationship with the landscaper. She obviously felt close enough to him to approach him with the subject. If not, could you imagine the conversation:

TH: "Wow, the yard is looking really great. Oh, and by the way, would you take $50K in exchange for killing my husband?" ;)

My guess is they got more info from the recorded convo between landscaper and TH than they are letting on. TH probably realized she was in big trouble at that point and that, along with the RO, is what prompted her to hire the attorney.

And regarding the LE.....does anyone really expect them to say anything but NO COMMENT?????????

How would someone bring something like this up? They would have to know them REALLY well or know something about them, IMO. I've had the same "landscapers" (I call them yard and snow plow guys) for the last seven years. I would never even think about asking any of them to do something like that for me. I can't think of a way to even approach them with it.

cluciano63
07-04-2010, 01:45 PM
They won't be able to charge her with anything related to this alleged plot if all they have is the landscape man saying the request took place. Anyone could accuse someone of anything, if that were the case.

It may turn out to be just one more thing "out there" that ultimately affects potential jurors, etc...but has no bearing on the case with Kyron.

snowshuze
07-04-2010, 01:45 PM
:furious:If what this landscaper claims is true and Terrie Horman did offer to pay him to murder Kaine:


Why didn't they report Terrie Horman to authorities immediately after she offered him money to murder Kaine Horman?

Why did it take law enforcement so long to find and interview the landscaper?

Why didn't the landscaper warn Kaine Horman about the fact Terrie wanted him dead?

If the landscaper was aware Kyron Horman was missing shortly after he disappeared and that Terrie Horman, the woman who approached him with an offer of money to murder her husband Kain Horman, why didn't he come forward of his own accord?

If Terrie hated Kaine so much as to want to pay someone to murder him, it is entirely possible she paid someone to murder Kyron or committed the murder herself.

If Terrie hated Kaine, she probably hated Kyron too and was really mean to him when Kaine wasn't around! :furious:

Looking at that sweet boys face the day he went missing.... I don't think he knew what was coming....he has such a beautiful smile.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/horman_kr.htm

john's mom
07-04-2010, 01:47 PM
They don't have to say a thing. Just asking someone to do that is conspiracy to commit murder, doesn't matter if she turned it around and said "haha, just a joke, I was kidding!" The act of asking is as illegal as the act of murder; it just doesn't have the same sentence.

Time to arrest her for that.


Wow. You learn something every day! So I wonder if they arrested her yet? If not, why not?

Wendy101
07-04-2010, 01:47 PM
WOW!! after reading this, I fell mayeb Kyron is alive.

Terri was after Kaine, wanted to kill him first.. didn't work, so what is the next best thing to do.... you break his heart...

What is Kaines fear?
1. for his child to go missing... and then most likely..
2. Kyron being with a perv.

As many posters stated above, I question the timing.. J has to move out because he "butts heads with Kaine" .. 6 months later, Terri is tryign to get someone to kill her husband and Kyron is missing. hummm...

roseofsharon
07-04-2010, 01:47 PM
So LE tracks this landscaper down and now he says -- yeah TH hired me

to do some landscaping for her and oh by the way -- she also asked if I

would do away with her husband!!!!! and landscaper obviously turns down

TH and keeps all this to himself. I would think if I were the landscaper, I

would have feared for my OWN life after turning her down, but he just

casually carries on with his day to day!!!!! Come on!!!!!!! They make this

sound like going to the corner for a cup of coffee somewhere.


And just exactly how did they schedule this landscaping to be done

without KH's knowledge and what exactly did she tell KH that SHE was

doing all this work.


MOO always.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 01:48 PM
Wow. You learn something every day! So I wonder if they arrested her yet? If not, why not?

Because they couldn't get her to repeat the plans on tape, IMO.

sherbetjello
07-04-2010, 01:49 PM
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_tells_police_terri.html

Of course this comes out at 4:00 in the morning and no one is around to talk to about it!
This answers the questions as to why the restraining order. It also says that Kaine was not home when 911 was called last week.
I don't know if it's true or not but it sure raises more questions then ever. If it is true then Terri is much more unstable then previously thought. And why would she want to get rid of Kaine? I dismissed the specuation that she was having an affair but this really opens up that possibility. And why would she get rid of Kyron if it was Kaine that she wanted to eliminate? Can this situation get any stranger?

Hearsay, and something like this you can most def arrest a person. So, the question comes... is TH in jail yet?

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 01:50 PM
Whew! I just breezed through this entire thread and all I can say is, "Wow!" I'm almost speechless, but in the words of Alice, I'll say that this case just gets "curiouser and curiouser." I'm beginning to feel like I ate a few of those funky mushrooms, or that Mad Hatter put "something" in my tea, KWIM? :D

Have a safe and happy Fourth of July!

Hi BDE.

IIRC, you saw the dark purple emoting from all at the last family presser. I only picked up the serious change in demeanor & emotion. Boy oh boy, do I want to know about the purple. Hang on , there are more SECRETS to come IMO. I would continue with your wonderland analogy but any more color speak and I'd be out of bounds, I'm afraid ...

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:50 PM
How would someone bring something like this up? They would have to know them REALLY well or know something about them, IMO. I've had the same "landscapers" (I call them yard and snow plow guys) for the last seven years. I would never even think about asking any of them to do something like that for me. I can't think of a way to even approach them with it.

I've read about people trying to hire hitmen - sometimes successfully and sometimes not. It seems to me that all it really takes is a belief on the part of the asker that the person they are asking is immoral/desperate for money/already involved in criminal activities.

CharlestonGal
07-04-2010, 01:50 PM
How would someone bring something like this up? They would have to know them REALLY well or know something about them, IMO. I've had the same "landscapers" (I call them yard and snow plow guys) for the last seven years. I would never even think about asking any of them to do something like that for me. I can't think of a way to even approach them with it.

I can't imagine it either. "Hey James, it's time to weed & feed again. Oh...and by the way.....would you kill my husband for me? I'll pay you extra for that."

He had to have been more than the landscaper. Maybe she cried on his shoulder about how mean Kaine was for a while first, then kind of threw that out there to see if he'd bite? She could have taken it back said she was just overwrought or kidding or exhausted or whatever when he said, "What the h&ll?"

TrialAddict
07-04-2010, 01:51 PM
We had a women here who asked a guy to kill her husband. He went to the police. She was not arrested until many months later. The police had to get her on tape talking about it with this guy and she had to say flat out she wanted him killed. This took months. She was tried and convicted, because of what they had on the tapes.

wondering1
07-04-2010, 01:51 PM
Wow. You learn something every day! So I wonder if they arrested her yet? If not, why not?

Because it's his word against hers right now as to whether she even asked and there's the problem of why the lawn guy didn't come forward at the time or on his own.

I think they would have a problem meeting their burden of proof at this point. They're probably still investigating and hoping to come up with something more solid either regarding this charge or wrt Kyron. jmo

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 01:51 PM
IMO, you certainly don't have to be illegal to worry that reporting things will be more trouble than it's worth.

Very very true.

sofia76
07-04-2010, 01:52 PM
As Kaine's wife, maybe Terrie Horman is the beneficiary of a large life insurance policy and she promised the landscaper the payment would be made when she received payment.

Unless Kaine is really cheap and didn't want to chip in the $5-15/month it costs to get even a basic life insurance policy through his job at Intel, he likely has at least a couple hundred grand in coverage.

IMO, it would be stupid for him not to have life insurance, and I don't think he's stupid. He is making almost 100K a year, has 2 kids, and a wife who is a stay at home mom (and out of work teacher in this economy). It's kind of a no-brainer. Then again, people do weird things sometimes.

PickieChickie
07-04-2010, 01:52 PM
I have to wonder if Terrie Horman was having an intimate affair with the landscaper.

In my opinion, they had to have an intimate relationship for Terrie to feel comfortable enough to approach him with such a horrendous plot.

Where did Terrie find this landscaper to hire?

At what point does Terrie feel comfortable enough to ask him to kill her husband?

Was Terrie DRUNK when she asked him to kill her husband?

Where did this conversation occur? In bed? At a bar? At the house? On the telephone?

Jack
07-04-2010, 01:52 PM
WOW, so IF this can somehow be proven to be true... then I'm beginning to lose my grip on the fence.

Reality Orlando
07-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Me either....however, I have a neighbor that has a yard guy that hubs doesn't know about....she tells her hubs the SHE does it. lol.

Yikes, my husband and I try to both take time on the lawn and gardens, but I occasionally have a guy in the neighborhood come do our lawn. My husband is way overworked and if I know he's having a particularly rough week and I can't get to it (I work as well), I do pay to have it done w/o telling him. He's very budget oriented and thinks paying for lawn care is a wasted expense, but sometimes he's so tired and I just can't see him out in the Florida heat overdoing it or things may just be piling up and I know he's getting frustrated trying to get it all done. I guess I'm a bad girl...lol.

pdx
07-04-2010, 01:53 PM
c'mon JBean. that would require some research. and it's a federal holiday. :D

but does that mean the RO was not necessary either?

Morning, Emma.. dizzy yet? Or is it splinters.. lol what a mess!

I see it now as the RO *is* to protect KH (not babyK).. that is the compelling emergency fact (for issuing the RO) & reason the judge kept the RO sealed. The Oregonian wanted it unsealed (believe they led the effort for that hearing) to confirm this story which they've had prepared & were ready to run.
They held onto it tightly; not a whisper until the street edition went to print (that's why it showed up at 4am). It would've been terrific for them to have the RO facts open to corroborate their story, but ultimately not necessary.

Sorry Judge, we didn't mean to pull the rug out from under you! :innocent:

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Please let's not get into an illegal alien debate. There is enough going on already.


Please read the warof2010's posts for the latest information on the border situation,but let's not do it here. :)


thanks

I don't want a debate either. Just offering up a valid reason this guy might have kept his mouth shut.

AbbieNormal
07-04-2010, 01:54 PM
Holy ****.


My son in law does landscaping, I think he would poo his pants if such an offer was made to him. I seriously wonder WHY the landscaper didn't tell LE back when the proposition was made to him, the only reason I can think of is that He and Terri might have had a little thing going on.
Who would want to have an affair, though, with a woman who was capable of thinking about killing her spouse? Talk about some danger added to the sex life, good gravy!!! He would have to be NUTS to have an affair w/ this woman.
So why didn't he come forward months ago? Kyron might still be alive if he had come forward, Terri might have been arrested and thrown in jail. She would never have and the chance to kill Kyron had she been arrested for conspiracy to kill Kaine months ago.
Did the yard guy say no thanks, and make arrangements to be back in 2 weeks for a leaf removal and hedge clean up, or what? This is too weird for me to even begin to absorb, coffee or not. Terri must have handled all the bill paying, or Kaine would have been aware they had a landscaper. And honestly, that yard did NOT look landscaped in any way, shape, or form.
If Terri was so interested in getting back into shape why didn't she get her butt out there and do some yardwork instead of 'hitting the gym'? (Rhetorical question)

Can this whole thing GET any stranger?

I am shocked, and its hard to completely shock me, anymore.

and ETA: If Terri is capable of trying to hire someone to kill Kaine, even if I WAS still on the fence about her, (which I wasn't) this would have caused me to tumble off the fence on the side of This Woman IS Guilty/ Capable Of Doing Something To Kyron.

Patty G
07-04-2010, 01:54 PM
Multnomah County sheriff's spokeswoman Mary Lindstrand would not confirm that there is an ongoing murder-for-hire investigation.

BBM

http://www.kptv.com/news/24139076/detail.html

mrsu
07-04-2010, 01:55 PM
How would someone bring something like this up? They would have to know them REALLY well or know something about them, IMO. I've had the same "landscapers" (I call them yard and snow plow guys) for the last seven years. I would never even think about asking any of them to do something like that for me. I can't think of a way to even approach them with it.

Yes...that's exactly what I'm saying. :)

ClueMeIn
07-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Did the work ever even get done? Maybe the landscaper left, after she asked him to do that.

BetteDavisEyes
07-04-2010, 01:57 PM
Portland's own favorite daughter, Tonya Harding, is doubtless the early favorite to play Terry Horman in the inevitable made-for-tv movie.

Both have the same initials...both obsessed with physical fitness...bodybuilder/professional wrestler ...both are about 40 years old ...both kinda some sort of blond...etc. etc etc

Based on the latest revelation about the hired "hit-man", the similarities seem endless... ;) National Figure Skating Championships were held in Detroit the year of the infamous "incident" against Nancy Kerrigan, so it's difficult for me to overlook that particular comparison.

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 01:57 PM
As Kaine's wife, maybe Terrie Horman is the beneficiary of a large life insurance policy and she promised the landscaper the payment would be made when she received payment.

That's usually how the deal goes down.

marlap
07-04-2010, 01:58 PM
:furious:If what this landscaper claims is true and Terrie Horman did offer to pay him to murder Kaine:


Why didn't they report Terrie Horman to authorities immediately after she offered him money to murder Kaine Horman?

Why did it take law enforcement so long to find and interview the landscaper?

Why didn't the landscaper warn Kaine Horman about the fact Terrie wanted him dead?

If the landscaper was aware Kyron Horman was missing shortly after he disappeared and that Terrie Horman, the woman who approached him with an offer of money to murder her husband Kain Horman, why didn't he come forward of his own accord?

If Terrie hated Kaine so much as to want to pay someone to murder him, it is entirely possible she paid someone to murder Kyron or committed the murder herself.

If Terrie hated Kaine, she probably hated Kyron too and was really mean to him when Kaine wasn't around! :furious:


The possibility exists that he agreed to her proposition and was waiting for a downpayment of some kind.

The article said this morning that LE contacted him.

If the hit request is true and his interactions and agreement with TH were all in person---no electronic or paper trail...he may have told LE that she made the request months earlier but that he thought she was kidding (when they were doing their initial run through of everyone in her cell phone list).

But because she wasn't coming up with any money and he now wants to distance himself and protect himself in case TH tries to throw him under the bus, he threw her under the bus first.

darlin gal
07-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Terri Horman, step-mother of Kyron Horman, who has been missing since June 4, attempted to hire a man to kill her husband, according to a report on the Oregonian's website. The report has been independently confirmed by a KATU News reporter's contact with investigators familiar with the case.


http://www.katu.com/news/97767249.html

wondering1
07-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Multnomah County sheriff's spokeswoman Mary Lindstrand would not confirm that there is an ongoing murder-for-hire investigation.

BBM

http://www.kptv.com/news/24139076/detail.html

Interesting. I was just thinking about how all this fits in with the RO and the sealing of the records. Just Friday iirc, the judge refused to unseal the RO pending a hearing on the 12th. Everyone except the media says it critical to the investigation that it remain sealed. Presumably it includes information regarding the murder-for-hire plot, and now, two days later, the entire thing is laid out by the Oregonian, which was first excluded, then re-included, in the family's q&a, etc. also on Friday iirc. wth? is all I can say...

cj1132
07-04-2010, 01:59 PM
I wish I could have been a fly on the wall in that household for the last year to see if there were any events leading up to this. IMO, I still believe there are many, many layers to unravel yet.

Patty G
07-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Hopefully LE will ask the landscaper, IF there is a landscaper, to take a poly to confirm this "alleged" murder-for-hire.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 01:59 PM
Am I the only one who feels that a desire to put a hit out on your husband several months ago, if this is true, is not exactly proof of being willing to kill his child a few weeks ago?

pdx
07-04-2010, 02:00 PM
Portland's own favorite daughter, Tonya Harding, is doubtless the early favorite to play Terry Horman in the inevitable made-for-tv movie.

:laugh: :rofl: Stop it.. you're too right! :laugh:

TrialAddict
07-04-2010, 02:00 PM
What would give, Terri the idea that this guy might be willing to do such a thing?

Jack
07-04-2010, 02:01 PM
WOW!! after reading this, I fell mayeb Kyron is alive.

Terri was after Kaine, wanted to kill him first.. didn't work, so what is the next best thing to do.... you break his heart...

-snipped-

As many posters stated above, I question the timing.. J has to move out because he "butts heads with Kaine" .. 6 months later, Terri is tryign to get someone to kill her husband and Kyron is missing. hummm...


OK, I haven't fully bought into this whole thing being true but IF it is perhaps the original plan was to do away with Kaine so she wouldn't have any custody issues with her child. When that fell through perhaps she thought if she framed Kaine for the disappearance of his son she wouldn't have any custody issues with her daughter. I've even considered the possibility that she fabricated trouble with her son to get him out of the house and out of the way (harms way?) so he wouldn't be involved with whatever plan she ultimately carried out. Just some thoughts, not thinking these things really happened but trying to consider all the possibilities.

darlin gal
07-04-2010, 02:02 PM
At 10:08 this morning came this statement by email to the KXL newsroom:

"There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported in the July 4, 2010 Oregonian. The information released in the Oregonian article did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation. There is no press conference scheduled for today or tomorrow. If there are tips or information related to the Kyron Horman missing person case please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503 261-2847. If a person/persons believe they have had an actual sighting of Kyron Hormon call 911."


http://www.kxl.com/BREAKING-NEWS--Horman-Murder-For-Hire-Plot-Alleged/7612451

oxymoran
07-04-2010, 02:03 PM
Maybe the landscaper was tracked down during a review of her financial transactions, which would be standard procedure in the early days of the investigation.

She's already been complaining she's short of money to mount a defense...so how was she planning to pay the hit-man?

Unless she's already spent some of her hit-man budget...

Perhaps the landscaper did not come forward because he had accepted a down-payment...I mean Terri could hardly take him to the People's Court for non-performance!

BetteDavisEyes
07-04-2010, 02:03 PM
What would give, Terri the idea that this guy might be willing to do such a thing?

Desperate people seek desperate measures. jmo

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Morning, Emma.. dizzy yet? Or is it splinters.. lol what a mess!

I see it now as the RO *is* to protect KH (not babyK).. that is the compelling emergency fact (for issuing the RO) & reason the judge kept the RO sealed. The Oregonian wanted it unsealed (believe they led the effort for that hearing) to confirm this story which they've had prepared & were ready to run.
They held onto it tightly; not a whisper until the street edition went to print (that's why it showed up at 4am). It would've been terrific for them to have the RO facts open to corroborate their story, but ultimately not necessary.

Sorry Judge, we didn't mean to pull the rug out from under you! :innocent:

I have to go to the Kyron scanner thread and go back to see how many calls they had for doorstep fainting this AM.

'Cause if that headline was on my doorstep, I'd been drooling on my porch until help arrived.

Be careful out there, PDX!

AbbieNormal
07-04-2010, 02:04 PM
The only women's prison in the state of Oregon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_Creek_Correctional_Facility

Terri Hormans future new home, perhaps?

Jack
07-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Am I the only one who feels that a desire to put a hit out on your husband several months ago, if this is true, is not exactly proof of being willing to kill his child a few weeks ago?


Yea, there is a big difference in wanting to off an adult who may have somehow hurt you enough to make you feel that way than to somehow want to kill a child who you have raised like your own and who loves you like a mom. BIG difference.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 02:05 PM
Maybe the landscaper was tracked down during a review of her financial transactions, which would be standard procedure in the early days of the investigation.

She's already been complaining she's short of money to mount a defense...so how was she planning to pay the hit-man?

Unless she's already spent some of her hit-man budget...

Perhaps the landscaper did not come forward because he had accepted a down-payment...I mean Terri could hardly take him to the People's Court for non-performance!

BBM

HAHA, yes. A friend and I were just talking about this and we said why not take the downpayment, b/c to whom would she appeal if we just skipped off with it? (We were joking, of course... Or I hope so.)

pdx
07-04-2010, 02:05 PM
Based on the latest revelation about the hired "hit-man", the similarities seem endless... ;) National Figure Skating Championships were held in Detroit the year of the infamous "incident" against Nancy Kerrigan, so it's difficult for me to overlook that particular comparison.
OT Alert:
This made the local (don't know about national) news and I know you'll want to send a card.. :D
http://www.oregonlive.com/clark-county/index.ssf/2010/07/clark_county_official_confirms_marriage_license_fo r_tonya_harding.html

Tonya's getting married again. :)

Ms Suzanne
07-04-2010, 02:06 PM
Terri Horman, step-mother of Kyron Horman, who has been missing since June 4, attempted to hire a man to kill her husband, according to a report on the Oregonian's website. The report has been independently confirmed by a KATU News reporter's contact with investigators familiar with the case.


http://www.katu.com/news/97767249.html
I smell a law suit here.LE said they will not confirm that there is an ongoing murder-for-hire investigation.It is a accusation.

roseofsharon
07-04-2010, 02:06 PM
We had a women here who asked a guy to kill her husband. He went to the police. She was not arrested until many months later. The police had to get her on tape talking about it with this guy and she had to say flat out she wanted him killed. This took months. She was tried and convicted, because of what they had on the tapes.

It's too bad landscaper didn't go to LE from the get go and this mess wouldn't be going on right now:furious:

Too late now to tape any conversations and as I stated in a previous thread, just another he siad, she said.

MOO

mrsu
07-04-2010, 02:06 PM
Multnomah County sheriff's spokeswoman Mary Lindstrand would not confirm that there is an ongoing murder-for-hire investigation.

BBM

http://www.kptv.com/news/24139076/detail.html

And this surprises you???????? They have not commented/confirmed almost every sensitive detail relating to the investigation. Just like they have not confirmed TH being a POI?? I think that says a lot here.

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 02:06 PM
Hopefully LE will ask the landscaper, IF there is a landscaper, to take a poly to confirm this "alleged" murder-for-hire.

That's usually the first thing LE does before going any further. They don't want to waste time on someone who's lying.

Lokiza
07-04-2010, 02:06 PM
Ok, now this is a twist I did not consider. Brother if this is true then TH is very sick. Oh, Kyron I am so sorry to see this.

Wow, well she will be convicted in the court of public opinion for sure now. Whether or not she did something to Kyron it is not looking good.

:furious:

wondering1
07-04-2010, 02:06 PM
I've read about people trying to hire hitmen - sometimes successfully and sometimes not. It seems to me that all it really takes is a belief on the part of the asker that the person they are asking is immoral/desperate for money/already involved in criminal activities.

True. I wonder if she knew the landscaper from other..ahem... "transactions" or it was suggested to her that he might be a good persion to ask. I grew up in NJ where murder-for-hire is relatively common :innocent: and all you have to do is suggest to the right person that you might be in a position to consider doing something like this and they will make sure that you are pointed in the right direction.

matou
07-04-2010, 02:07 PM
I just thought of this: What if Kyron is being held for ransom/blackmail because someone else knows about the hit request made to the landscaper by Terri? She must have had access to some cash and obviously the hit never happened against Kaine. Maybe the word got to someone else shady who needed some money and this was a direct message to Terri to pay up the large sum of money she offered to the landscaper guy. I know....she's probably responsible but there are so many people hard up for cash, they may even abduct a little boy to get it. I'm still so hopeful that Kyron is alive. I just don't feel like he had died. I feel like he is being held somewhere, now I understand the bio-parents pleas and feelings that he is alive.

Happy fourth to all my American friends. xo

Snowball58
07-04-2010, 02:08 PM
Oh the irony of TH's comments about the unmowed patch of lawn in her yard...

cluciano63
07-04-2010, 02:08 PM
I think LE may have found this guy weeks ago, not just recently, and was working on trying to get a phone conversation set up between Terri and landscaper. Which shows, to me, that LE has been running down all people in their lives, to check them out. Once they spoke with this guy, they may have noticed too many phone calls between Terri and him for a regular groundskeeping relationship, and brought the guy back in. But if she asked this guy out of the blue, he may not have taken it seriously at the time.

I just don't see how an arrest can be made with just his statement. There has to something more to back it up.

marlap
07-04-2010, 02:08 PM
What would give, Terri the idea that this guy might be willing to do such a thing?

We don't know who he is...it could be someone TH has known for a long time.

Wanda Holloway (convicted of hiring a hitman to kill her daughter's cheerleading rival's mother) went to her ex husband's brother because she knew he had had minor run-ins with the law and assumed he'd be interested.

In that case, he absolutely wasn't and went straight to LE.

So maybe TH knew this lawnguy, thought he might be interested, but in this case he either was and was waiting for a downpayment or wasn't but really didn't take her seriously at all. Both reasons for not coming forward.



I think LE may have found this guy weeks ago, not just recently, and was working on trying to get a phone conversation set up between Terri and landscaper. Which shows, to me, that LE has been running down all people in their lives, to check them out. Once they spoke with this guy, they may have noticed too many phone calls between Terri and him for a regular groundskeeping relationship, and brought the guy back in. But if she asked this guy out of the blue, he may not have taken it seriously at the time.

I just don't see how an arrest can be made with just his statement. There has to something more to back it up.

I agree!

PickieChickie
07-04-2010, 02:08 PM
Oregon - Solicitation of murder is a class A felony punishable with up to 20 years in prison!

Source: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xVxDuFuRLAMJ:www.criminaldefenselaw yer.com/resources/criminal-defense/felony-offense/oregon-felony-class.htm+what+is+the+code+for+oregon+conspiracy+t o+commit+murder%3F&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

CharlestonGal
07-04-2010, 02:09 PM
Interesting. I was just thinking about how all this fits in with the RO and the sealing of the records. Just Friday iirc, the judge refused to unseal the RO pending a hearing on the 12th. Everyone except the media says it critical to the investigation that it remain sealed. Presumably it includes information regarding the murder-for-hire plot, and now, two days later, the entire thing is laid out by the Oregonian, which was first excluded, then re-included, in the family's q&a, etc. also on Friday iirc. wth? is all I can say...

I can see why LE and the family were trying to keep this quiet. Now that it's been published, there is no way Terri is going to fall for a setup or wiretap with landscaper guy. Any chance for LE to build a case is now lost, unfortunately.

pdx
07-04-2010, 02:09 PM
I have to go to the Kyron scanner thread and go back to see how many calls they had for doorstep fainting this AM.

'Cause if that headline was on my doorstep, I'd been drooling on my porch until help arrived.

Be careful out there, PDX!

:eek: Exactly!
Fortunately, I'd had an alert from a friend via email before I picked up the paper or we would've had a mess all over the front porch.. coffee splutter everywhere and bodies littering the steps.
And here I figured today's debate would be over the KGW news last night.. I'm going to have to add a thread for that because it is weird.

Wendy101
07-04-2010, 02:09 PM
At 10:08 this morning came this statement by email to the KXL newsroom:

"There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported in the July 4, 2010 Oregonian. The information released in the Oregonian article did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation. There is no press conference scheduled for today or tomorrow. If there are tips or information related to the Kyron Horman missing person case please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503 261-2847. If a person/persons believe they have had an actual sighting of Kyron Hormon call 911."


http://www.kxl.com/BREAKING-NEWS--Horman-Murder-For-Hire-Plot-Alleged/7612451

HUmm.. I guess the want Terri to think about what has been released to teh public for a couple days???

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 02:10 PM
At 10:08 this morning came this statement by email to the KXL newsroom:

"There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported in the July 4, 2010 Oregonian. The information released in the Oregonian article did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation. There is no press conference scheduled for today or tomorrow. If there are tips or information related to the Kyron Horman missing person case please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503 261-2847. If a person/persons believe they have had an actual sighting of Kyron Hormon call 911."


http://www.kxl.com/BREAKING-NEWS--Horman-Murder-For-Hire-Plot-Alleged/7612451

So much for the "Team" concept. :D
Can't blame them for trying...
*sigh*

I really hope the press is darn certain this information would not interfere with a safe release of Kyron from any possible actual kidnappers. Hoping against hope against hope.

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 02:11 PM
:eek: Exactly!
Fortunately, I'd had an alert from a friend via email before I picked up the paper or we would've had a mess all over the front porch.. coffee splutter everywhere and bodies littering the steps.
And here I figured today's debate would be over the KGW news last night.. I'm going to have to add a thread for that because it is weird.

Please do, as I must have missed that! Hmmmmm...

gliving
07-04-2010, 02:12 PM
At 10:08 this morning came this statement by email to the KXL newsroom:

"There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported in the July 4, 2010 Oregonian. The information released in the Oregonian article did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation. There is no press conference scheduled for today or tomorrow. If there are tips or information related to the Kyron Horman missing person case please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503 261-2847. If a person/persons believe they have had an actual sighting of Kyron Hormon call 911."


http://www.kxl.com/BREAKING-NEWS--Horman-Murder-For-Hire-Plot-Alleged/7612451

Thanks darlin gal!

So, if it wasn't the Sheriff's office that leaked this info, that leaves only the Lawn Man himself, or team D K &T.

I highly doubt Lawn Man, unless he's hoping to sell his story, so is it D K&T? What purpose does this release serve?

JBean
07-04-2010, 02:12 PM
At 10:08 this morning came this statement by email to the KXL newsroom:

"There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported in the July 4, 2010 Oregonian. The information released in the Oregonian article did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation. There is no press conference scheduled for today or tomorrow. If there are tips or information related to the Kyron Horman missing person case please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503 261-2847. If a person/persons believe they have had an actual sighting of Kyron Hormon call 911."


http://www.kxl.com/BREAKING-NEWS--Horman-Murder-For-Hire-Plot-Alleged/7612451
bada bing bada bump

SuziQ
07-04-2010, 02:13 PM
Am I the only one who feels that a desire to put a hit out on your husband several months ago, if this is true, is not exactly proof of being willing to kill his child a few weeks ago?

Absolutely the two incidents might not be related.....BUT it at least tells me that TH has no problems using murder as a problem solving tool.

And it's not often, in fact I've never heard of this, a wife tries to put a hit on her husband and a few months later her stepson up and disappears.

joshiesmom
07-04-2010, 02:13 PM
I haven't read every reply yet, so please forgive me if this has been discussed...

Wouldn't Terri be arrested for engaging in a murder-for-hire situation? Or is that something that would have to be proved before they could arrest her for it?

In other words, how do they know that the gardener is telling the truth?

GrainneDhu
07-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Question: Why didn't the landscaper come forward to the cops 6 to 7 months ago telling them that about this murder for hire scheme? It could've saved Kyron's life.

A bunch of people have probably already said this but here goes anyway.

In many places, landscaping in the sense of yardwork, etc, is one of the jobs that undocumented aliens can do relatively safely.

If he were an undocumented alien, he had to weigh whether the police would take his word against the word of a wealthy white woman and whether he would just be deported for his pains.

WhyaDuck?
07-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Thanks darlin gal!

So, if it wasn't the Sheriff's office that leaked this info, that leaves only the Lawn Man himself, or team D K &T.

I highly doubt Lawn Man, unless he's hoping to sell his story, so is it D K&T? What purpose does this release serve?

It could have been a civilian worker in the PD, or a friend of the lawn guy, etc, etc. Checkbook journalism goes pretty far when there's public interest of this level. MOO.

wondering1
07-04-2010, 02:14 PM
I can see why LE and the family were trying to keep this quiet. Now that it's been published, there is no way Terri is going to fall for a setup or wiretap with landscaper guy. Any chance for LE to build a case is now lost, unfortunately.

You're right. I didn't think of that. I wonder where the Oregonian got it's info. I think I just read that it was from "investigators familiar with the case." Oh boy, heads are gonna roll!

Maybe they have some other tangible evidence, but I'm thinking not.

Gypsy Road
07-04-2010, 02:15 PM
WHOA! Just coming in here and didn't expect to see this!

OF COURSE SHE IS GOING TO DENY IT! Jeez! What else can she say? OMG.

Why haven't police arrested her for attempting murder for hire already?! Guess it's still an on-going investigation? SHEESH!

Emma Peel
07-04-2010, 02:16 PM
Maybe the landscaper does the neighbor's yard as well. I hear they are a talkative bunch. :waitasec: