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heartfortruth
07-05-2010, 06:10 PM
I didn't see this anywhere but that is not possible! Fast, fast Websleuthers ALWAYS beat me to the punch! LOL

just reading the names of these people gives me chills.....I remember so well when that happened......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100705/ap_on_re_us/us_manson_follower

LOS ANGELES – Leslie Van Houten, the one-time Charles Manson follower long seen as the most likely of his ex-acolytes to win freedom someday, faces her 19th parole hearing with a new lawyer and new case law which may give her the best chance yet for release.

tapu
07-05-2010, 06:26 PM
I'm quite ambivalent about her getting parole. In my studied opinion, she has served adequate time to pay for her level of involvement. I don't believe she would be a danger to society. One side matter to consider: Would a member of the Manson family really be safe from others, outside prison?

I'm interested in seeing the discussion about this. I have quite a few books and films for reference if anyone has specific questions about the crimes, the killers, the victims, etc.

panthera
07-05-2010, 08:40 PM
Another question I would have is what would she do if released from prison ~ such as where would she live, where would she get a job (in a state with a high unemployment rate), etc? She has spent all of her adult life in prison and my concern would be adjusting to the outside world, not so much that she would commit another crime, but generally speaking since she has been incarcerated for 41 years and most people remember or have heard of the Manson family murders.

kbl8201
07-06-2010, 02:33 AM
no way.

if not for the stupid ruling in 1973 manson and his chicks would had been gassed years ago.

they didnt show any mercy on there victims, including a woman who was 8 months pregnant and 2 elderly people.

let her rot

tapu
07-06-2010, 03:52 AM
Another question I would have is what would she do if released from prison ~ such as where would she live, where would she get a job (in a state with a high unemployment rate), etc? She has spent all of her adult life in prison and my concern would be adjusting to the outside world, not so much that she would commit another crime, but generally speaking since she has been incarcerated for 41 years and most people remember or have heard of the Manson family murders.

I've read that she has had several offers of employment, from her lawyers' offices and from friends of her family. This has been cited and backed up at the earlier parole hearings. Also--though this certainly doesn't guarantee a job--she has earned a bachelor's and (I think) a master's degree in prison. She also has organized and managed several service and educational groups inside Frontera.

heartfortruth
07-06-2010, 01:42 PM
There is quite a bit of information all over the internet right now if anyone wants to "refresh" their memory of these unspeakable events and people involved.

Not very "refreshing" , however........

"trending" on Yahoo....# 1.........
I went to one site.....enough to do more damage to my psyche today ...along with missing Alisa........think I'll go get some breaths of fresh air and cool off a bit.....
I just don't know what I think about LVH being released.....
any more thoughts?

tapu
07-06-2010, 04:29 PM
Well.... It was found at trial that she didn't kill anyone. She did, however, stab Rosemary LaBianca as she lay dead. Some have argued that she had to follow orders. Patricia Krenwinkle and Charles "Tex" Watson were urging her to stab someone because they didn't want anyone to be without "blood on their hands" so none of them could turn the others in.

LVH was not present the first night when "The Family" entered Sharon Tate's house and gruesomely murdered everyone in sight. She went along the 2nd night only.

LVH was very young when this occurred. (Altho come to think of it, I was married at that age. Hm. Well, see, I didn't know what I was doing either!)
:)

LinasK
07-06-2010, 04:57 PM
Well.... It was found at trial that she didn't kill anyone. She did, however, stab Rosemary LaBianca as she lay dead. Some have argued that she had to follow orders. Patricia Krenwinkle and Charles "Tex" Watson were urging her to stab someone because they didn't want anyone to be without "blood on their hands" so none of them could turn the others in.

LVH was not present the first night when "The Family" entered Sharon Tate's house and gruesomely murdered everyone in sight. She went along the 2nd night only. So what? One night of murder and mayhem is bad enough!

LVH was very young when this occurred. (Altho come to think of it, I was married at that age. Hm. Well, see, I didn't know what I was doing either!)
:)
My comment in red. Sorry, I strongly disagree!!! And I'm old enough to remember the Manson Murders well. I lived in L.A. at the time. She stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times!!! That is killing someone, and she could have refused, even if all she did was hold her down, which is still actively assisting in a murder! Susan Atkins died in prison, so should Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkle, no sympathy here!:furious::furious::furious:

Kimster
07-06-2010, 05:12 PM
She needs to serve her sentence - life.

tapu
07-06-2010, 07:42 PM
Kim,

Her sentence, after the DP was overthrown in CA, is Life With the Possibility of Parole. Not just Life.

I'm just working with the facts as I know them. I am quite conflicted as to my own opinion.

tapu
07-06-2010, 07:49 PM
My comment in red. Sorry, I strongly disagree!!! And I'm old enough to remember the Manson Murders well. I lived in L.A. at the time. She stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times!!! That is killing someone, and she could have refused, even if all she did was hold her down, which is still actively assisting in a murder! Susan Atkins died in prison, so should Leslie Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkle, no sympathy here!:furious::furious::furious:

Yes, I remember it well, too. <shudder>

I believe Rosemary LaBianca was stabbed 16 times, but not by Leslie. Isn't that right, that Leslie stabbed her after death and a few times? I could be remembering it wrong.... I'm really trying to work with the facts--as with any complicated and "seasoned" case, there are lots of varying accounts.

It's interesting that you think she could have refused. If you had just seen your companions kill two people by stabbing, with no regard for anything, and now they were telling you you had to stab the body, wouldn't you figure that they'd kill you if you didn't? I can kind of see a 19yo succumbing to that.

Another thing is: Back then, the US was far less familiar with the phenomenon of a cult, and with the hold that someone psychologically powerful could have on teens and even adults. If this crime were not so sensationalized, would we have a different perspective on the possibilities of that, now that we've learned from Koresh, "Doe," Solar Temple, etc.?

panthera
07-06-2010, 07:57 PM
No ruling yet? The most updated article I'm finding says the hearing began this afternoon. :waitasec:

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_15447240?nclick_check=1

LinasK
07-06-2010, 08:21 PM
No ruling yet? The most updated article I'm finding says the hearing began this afternoon. :waitasec:

http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_15447240?nclick_check=1
It's only 5:20 here on the West Coast...

LinasK
07-06-2010, 08:24 PM
Yes, I remember it well, too. <shudder>

I believe Rosemary LaBianca was stabbed 16 times, but not by Leslie. Isn't that right, that Leslie stabbed her after death and a few times? I could be remembering it wrong.... I'm really trying to work with the facts--as with any complicated and "seasoned" case, there are lots of varying accounts.

It's interesting that you think she could have refused. If you had just seen your companions kill two people by stabbing, with no regard for anything, and now they were telling you you had to stab the body, wouldn't you figure that they'd kill you if you didn't? I can kind of see a 19yo succumbing to that.

Another thing is: Back then, the US was far less familiar with the phenomenon of a cult, and with the hold that someone psychologically powerful could have on teens and even adults. If this crime were not so sensationalized, would we have a different perspective on the possibilities of that, now that we've learned from Koresh, "Doe," Solar Temple, etc.?
Van Houten, who was 19 at the time, told CNN's "Larry King Live" in 2002 that she herself stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times. http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/06/manson.family.parole/?hpt=T2

panthera
07-06-2010, 08:31 PM
It's only 5:20 here on the West Coast...
Thanks ~ I just didn't know if it was still ongoing or not. :)

LinasK
07-06-2010, 08:39 PM
By Mark Morgenstein, CNN
July 6, 2010 8:34 p.m. EDT
(CNN) -- Charles Manson family acolyte Leslie Van Houten has been denied parole for the 19th time, California authorities announced Tuesday.
Before the ruling, lawyer Brandie Devall said she was "excited" about the appearance because she can bolster her argument with rulings in two cases from the California Supreme Court since Van Houten's last parole hearing in 2007. Each case was recently upheld by federal courts. more at link: http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/06/manson.family.parole/?hpt=T1

Gozgals
07-07-2010, 04:08 AM
There was no mercy for the poor victims stabbed and there should be no mercy given to these horrid killers. That is what they are. Just because they are old now does not take away what they did. They killed innocent people in cold blood and a pregnant woman. These were people who had their whole life in front of them. They should have died years ago when they had the DP. I'm sorry but I have no feelings for them. They make me sick. No compassion at all. I feel for all their victims. The poor LaBianca's who deserved to be together till their life ended when it was their time. I cry when I think about what Manson and his followers did to all these people. It is still one of the worst crimes we have witnessed in our lifetime.

Thank God she did not get parole. I don't care that she changed or any of them did. What they did is not to be forgiven by us on earth, only a higher power can do that.

Always
Goz

tapu
07-07-2010, 05:58 AM
I would think... that if they didn't parole her this time, they never will. I do feel like my own mind is made up more in the direction of keeping her in forever; mainly by the point made that she has never seemed remorseful. I've thought that of her before, when I've seen earlier parole hearings on tape. She says she's so very sorry, and of course it's hard to tell when someone is lying (that's why we have lie detectors), but something strikes me as cold and rehearsed when Leslie says this. She may very well have a degree of psychopathy, and if so, would always be a danger to society. That argument is more convincing to me than the "most horrible crime" so she should have died argument. There are many crimes, many are horrible; we have to apply the death penalty judiciously or we head toward Shari'a law.

I was thinking something else about this yesterday, before the verdict: high-profile crimes like this often have erroneous info reported about them, and in an old case like this, a mythology has grown up. It is very hard to know, at this point, what the circumstances were. (Think Ramsey case, but much longer for the myth to develop.) Also, I think that in this case, we lump all the defendants together: they committed the crime together, they were caught together, they were tried and sentenced together, they have been in prison together for 40 years. But they are not all the same, and they did not do the same things, for the same causes; nor has their incarceration time been spent the same way.

It's hard in the face of a crime like this, and in the face of the pop and media and political coverage of this particular case, to separate bias from reason. Guess that's what judges are for....

heartfortruth
07-07-2010, 10:18 AM
as I read here and and read about LVH I wonder:
If I had been part of that massacre IN ANY WAY and if , before going before the board ,I read about what happened ...(as we have read) ..and I had any grasp of reality and the courage to really look at myself truthfully......I THINK (no one knows until they are in the situation) I would WANT to stay in prison and continue to live the life I was used to but / and let God work it out. In the end, Only God knows the hearts and minds of man. (Except for "The Shadow" , of course. :)

Nyla4
07-18-2010, 07:36 PM
I knew she didn't have a chance at parole after the Arnold reversed the boards decision to grant parole to Bruce Davis. IMO Bruce is the only one of tha group still locked up who ever had a chance at walking out of prison. I honestly don't even believe he killed anyone.

LVH says she only stabbed a dead person but she also held her victim down and helped put a pillowcase and lamp around her head. Plus, whose to say Rosemary was even dead when Leslie stabbed her? She obviously wasn't traumatized by murder because she was able to eat food from the victims fridge and flirt with the hitch-hiker who brought her home after the cruel act.

I think it is ironic and disgusting that the only "major" known member California paroled (Steve Grogan) had a child molesting charge. Thank God he has not re offended.

Piecone
07-21-2010, 02:52 PM
someone solve this mystery ...even though it says i am logged in everytime i try to post it says i am not?...lol
I am very much interested in the manson case tapu and would love a discussion of it, sounds like you may have info i have been wanting to know...
I do not think any manson member should be released from prison nor should have any ever been.
My question though is what became of the "lesser" members? where are they? what kind of life have they lead? the reason i am interested in this so much is that I have a wierd feeling some of those members may hold the key or at least clues to many of the other crimes that happened in that area at that time...as you all well know probably better than myself there are still many unsolved crimes, missing people...teens especially , and etc. from that time and that area. By lesser members i am refering to those who were not involved or prosecuted for the tate/folger Etc. murders....
I am not one that necessarily buys into the "They were just innocent teens looking for a place to get high" spin we have been fed all these years. I am sure there were some, the younger runaways and such.
I am also not a believer in the spin that those who commited the horrible crimes were innocents lead astray and brainwashed by Manson...Don't forget all we have are the word of the killers on that. and ALL of them have proved through the years to not only be inconsistant in those claims but also hazy in their claims....I am sure Charlie was their leader and main organizer of the crimes...But i still am not convinced he was the sole creator and mastermind of it all. Don't forget most of his coherts and perpetators had already been involved in murders and other crimes as well. the men especially.
Your thoughts/questions/answers....

t93
07-24-2010, 09:37 AM
I was looking up Jennifer Landon, Michael Landons daughter, to see what she has been up to since she was As The World Turns. She is so talented.

Anyway, IMDB has her listed as playing a part in a movie about the Manson Girls. At first I thought it was just a coincidental title until I read the synopsis. So there is a movie in either production or preproduction involving the women/girls that helped commit the murders, including Leslie.

Shaemae
09-12-2010, 04:47 PM
My opinion, Charles Manson and the girls where given the death penalty. Their reprieve was a Life sentence. That's all they should get. The reprieve when given should have stated "Life without the possibility of Parole" Had that have been stated we wouldn't have to be going through all of this every few years.

tapu
09-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Gosh, I didn't see Pinecone's post until now, and s/he's probably gone for good. Too bad. I'd enjoy a more in-depth discussion of the case, too. Especially along the lines of separating the myth from what there is testimony of and evidence for. (Altho.... good luck, tapu, huh?)

LinasK
01-20-2011, 01:38 PM
Wasn't sure whether to start a new thread or not, but now it's Patricia Krenwinkle's turn.

Posted: 7:21 am PST January 20, 2011Updated: 7:23 am PST January 20, 2011
CORONA, Calif. -- A follower of Charles Manson who has been imprisoned longer than any other woman in California is facing a parole hearing on her conviction in the Sharon Tate killings. Grey haired Patricia Krenwinkel, one of Manson's two surviving female followers, has maintained a clean prison record in her four decades behind bars, but her chances for release appear slim following the parole officials' rejections in other Manson cases. Krenwinkel, 63, was convicted along with Manson and two other female followers in seven 1969 murders, considered among the most notorious crimes of the 20th Century. None of those convicted has ever been paroled and one of them, Susan Atkins, died in prison last year after being denied compassionate release when she was terminally ill with cancer. Leslie Van Houten, 61, the youngest of the women convicted was long thought to be the most likely to win eventual release. But she was denied a parole date last summer by officials who said she had not gained sufficient insight into her crimes. Parole boards have repeatedly cited the callousness, viciousness and calculation of the seven murders committed by members of the Manson Family. Krenwinkel admitted during her trial that she chased down and stabbed heiress Abigail Folger at the Tate home on Aug. 9, 1969 and participated in the stabbing deaths of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca the following night, Both homes were defaced with bloody scrawlings. She was convicted along with Manson, Van Houten and Atkins. Another defendant, Charles "Tex" Watson was convicted in a separate trial. All were sentenced to death but their sentences were commuted to life when the U.S. Supreme Court briefly outlawed the death penalty in 1972. more at link: http://www.ktvu.com/news/26557021/detail.html

LinasK
01-21-2011, 01:01 AM
Posted: 7:21 am PST January 20, 2011Updated: 9:33 pm PST January 20, 2011
CORONA, Calif. -- In a decision suggesting that the brutal Sharon Tate murders are unforgivable, a parole board panel on Thursday refused to consider releasing Patricia Krenwinkel, who told the board she killed for the love of Charles Manson. The two-member panel made clear it was the horror of the killings, among the most notorious of the 20th century, that led them to reject the bid for parole in spite of Krenwinkel's efforts to change her life. They said the atrocious murders of seven people had affected the entire world -- evidenced by letters which came in from around the globe urging that she be kept behind bars -- and said Krenwinkel failed to understand that. "These crimes remain relevant," said parole commissioner Susan Melanson. "The public is in fear." more at link: http://www.ktvu.com/news/26557021/detail.html

Francine
06-15-2011, 11:13 PM
My opinion, Charles Manson and the girls where given the death penalty. Their reprieve was a Life sentence. That's all they should get. The reprieve when given should have stated "Life without the possibility of Parole" Had that have been stated we wouldn't have to be going through all of this every few years.yes, of all times for California to get soft on crime! They have not shown true remorse, and deserve to rot in prison. These frequent parole hearings are torture for Sharon Tate's one remaining immediate family member. Her mother and sister both fought terminal cancer while trying to keep the Manson followers in prison.

sharpar
10-30-2011, 12:42 AM
Thank Goodness the parole board remembers the facts of those horriffic murders .
The murderers do not deserve any compassion or leniency as they showed none for the victims . Victims who had done nothing to any of them.

They should never be allowed out.

Reality Orlando
10-30-2011, 12:46 AM
I'm quite ambivalent about her getting parole. In my studied opinion, she has served adequate time to pay for her level of involvement. I don't believe she would be a danger to society. One side matter to consider: Would a member of the Manson family really be safe from others, outside prison?

I'm interested in seeing the discussion about this. I have quite a few books and films for reference if anyone has specific questions about the crimes, the killers, the victims, etc.

IMO no one associated with these brutal, tortuous murders should ever see the light of day again.

weedemout
11-09-2011, 07:30 PM
free leslie!

HMSHood
11-09-2011, 07:52 PM
Charles Manson and all his followers should rot in prison to the day they die. If there is a Hell, they should rot along side with Osama bin Laden, 9/11 Terrorists, Adolf Hitler, and Pol Pot. :furious:

marycarney
11-09-2011, 07:58 PM
free leslie!

Why? She should have gone to the electric chair / gas chamber years ago, and is fortunate to still be drawing breath and eating three times a day on the taxpayers' dime.

Nefriahaia
11-19-2011, 02:43 PM
free leslie!

I must respectfully disagree.

HMSHood
11-21-2011, 12:34 AM
free leslie!

Totally disagree. Leslie Van Houten and all the Manson family should be executed. :furious:

weedemout
11-21-2011, 10:33 PM
It's my unpopular opinion, but I proudly state it.

Compassion will cure more sins than condemnation.- Henry Ward Beecher

HMSHood
12-01-2011, 10:09 PM
It's my unpopular opinion, but I proudly state it.

I stand by this. Too much compassion is a bad thing.

Compassion fatigue
Compassion fatigue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think the truth is people don't change.

Nore
12-03-2011, 09:58 AM
The people in this case should never be released. I remember this case well.
They should all rot in he!!.:furious:

raynjuls
04-24-2013, 11:17 AM
Manson & his girls deserve as much compassion as they demonstrated during their crimes... She can set her ass where she is until she is old and gray

Morag
04-24-2013, 03:07 PM
Many years ago, just after this crime occurred, I happened to work with a young woman who had gone to school with Leslie Van Houten. The young woman stated, " I don't know what happened to Leslie. She must have just gotten in with the wrong crowd."

borndem
04-24-2013, 06:55 PM
There is quite a bit of information all over the internet right now if anyone wants to "refresh" their memory of these unspeakable events and people involved.

Not very "refreshing" , however........

"trending" on Yahoo....# 1.........
I went to one site.....enough to do more damage to my psyche today ...along with missing Alisa........think I'll go get some breaths of fresh air and cool off a bit.....
I just don't know what I think about LVH being released.....
any more thoughts?

I remember all of it, too, heart -- I'm that old!

Let me say that I am one of those raving liberals; I was against the DP until I read Helter Skelter and other sources about this awful crime, and because of these murders and the brutality therein, I began to look at the DP differently. Still liberal about darn near everything else.

This is my opinion:

Since they were all given the death penalty initially, and then, as we remember, CA decided it was not to be in CA anymore, they gave them Life. When the DP in CA was restored, why were these folks not put back on death row? IANAL so I have never understood that. And why is "Life" not l-i-f-e in CA? In my home state, LWOP means what it says. No parole ever, period. Anyway....

And yes, of all the ones that were involved in Tate and/or LaBianca, LVH does seem the least bloodthirsty, but she went along knowing what would prolly happen and she participated. Apparently she held Rosemary's legs for her to be stabbed, and she then stabbed her most likely after RLB was dead. But she was there, and her sentence was Death. She has done some good things and has talked prolly sincerely about her remorse and regret about what she did in previous parole hearings, and she was young & under the influence of a madman when she committed the crime. But, again I say, she went along. She could have hitch-hiked home without going into that house, but she didn't.

No parole for LVH, or any of them, ever.

ceecee30
04-24-2013, 07:11 PM
I think LVH should stay exactly where she is..

The Manson crimes are what initially sparked my interest in the (somewhat morbid) true crime area.

Is she remorseful? Who knows..
Does she think daily of why she is where she is? Probably..

She took part in a horrific crime, and those affected can't be bought back so I think LVH should rot in jail until she herself passes away..

Life should be for life and the death penalty should have been given back to them when CA reinstated the death penalty..

This is all my opinion only :)

STANDREID
05-17-2013, 10:29 PM
Yes, keep her inside even though Manson killer Steve Grogan, who participated in the Shorty Shea murder, has been released - Lord only knows why. If she is still alive when she's 90, I can imagine her generating some sympathy.

Manson was arrested here in Peoria, IL during 1949 when he was caught burglarizing a local Chevrolet dealership. In a recent letter to a Peoria Journal Star reporter, he said that he had fond memories of this town; saying it wasn't too big but big enough to get lost in.:waiting:

Donamena
05-29-2013, 06:38 PM
:I've read that she has had several offers of employment, from her lawyers' offices and from friends of her family. This has been cited and backed up at the earlier parole hearings. Also--though this certainly doesn't guarantee a job--she has earned a bachelor's and (I think) a master's degree in prison. She also has organized and managed several service and educational groups inside Frontera.
Maybe I'm just a mean witch, but.....seriously??? Any Manson member out in the world?? And Grogan loose in an open-air asylum of his old friends??:slap:

borndem
06-02-2013, 10:46 PM
Yes, keep her inside even though Manson killer Steve Grogan, who participated in the Shorty Shea murder, has been released - Lord only knows why. If she is still alive when she's 90, I can imagine her generating some sympathy.

Manson was arrested here in Peoria, IL during 1949 when he was caught burglarizing a local Chevrolet dealership. In a recent letter to a Peoria Journal Star reporter, he said that he had fond memories of this town; saying it wasn't too big but big enough to get lost in.:waiting:

Thanks, Stan, for that little anecdote -- not exactly endearing but a weird (of course) tidbit. Cray-cray then, cray-cray now. Peoria, huh? WTH was he doing up there? Thanks for the little bit!

STANDREID
06-02-2013, 11:00 PM
Thanks, Stan, for that little anecdote -- not exactly endearing but a weird (of course) tidbit. Cray-cray then, cray-cray now. Peoria, huh? WTH was he doing up there? Thanks for the little bit!

If I remember correctly, he came through here with a buddy after they bolted from a Indiana reform (approved) school.

HopeForUs
06-05-2013, 11:06 PM
Many years ago, just after this crime occurred, I happened to work with a young woman who had gone to school with Leslie Van Houten. The young woman stated, " I don't know what happened to Leslie. She must have just gotten in with the wrong crowd."

Understatement of the century!!!

HMSHood
06-06-2013, 10:29 AM
:
Maybe I'm just a mean witch, but.....seriously??? Any Manson member out in the world?? And Grogan loose in an open-air asylum of his old friends??:slap:

Exactly. They should never see any day of freedom. :stormingmad:

Tricia
06-06-2013, 10:15 PM
It all depends on what the people of California feel the prison system should be doing.

If rehabilitation is truly what prisons are designed to do, then after enough time has been served for punishment, they (parole board representing the people's interest ) must decide if LVH is truly rehabilitated. If so the she is granted parole.

In my opinion it is safe to say since she was going to be executed her prison term should life without parole because rehabilitation was never an option. The only option was punishment for life. No matter if the state takes her life or she dies in prison.

Ausgirl
06-06-2013, 11:30 PM
Leslie is the poster child for why deprogrammers ought to be encouraged and government funded, rather than jailed for kidnapping. She could be anyone's teenaged daughter, sucked into something bigger than she was. With horrendous results all round.

I think she ought to stay in prison - for reasons stated by Trish above. Leslie narrowly avoided the death penalty via red tape, and therefore her punishment ought to be life no parole.

Donamena
06-11-2013, 02:59 PM
free leslie!
¿¿¿¿ qué ????
I don't know where to begin with your post. The possible healthy & articulate responses, not to mention pejoratives, are so vast & endless they make me giddy. And I'm not ruling out psychological encouragement either.

Donamena
06-11-2013, 03:05 PM
Let me make myself clear:




free your mind, not Leslie

Solitaryone
06-13-2013, 04:56 AM
Leslie Van Houten should never be released from prison. It's bad enough that Steve Grogan aka Clem was released. Susan Atkins died in prison as she should have. None of the Manson "Family" members involved in these and other murders should ever be released.

Daisy1975
07-01-2013, 10:57 AM
Leslie Van Houten should never be released from prison. It's bad enough that Steve Grogan aka Clem was released. Susan Atkins died in prison as she should have. None of the Manson "Family" members involved in these and other murders should ever be released.

I agree. They were originally sentenced to death and should be thanking their lucky stars every day that they are still breathing. A luxury none of their victims have.

genericwhitemale
07-07-2013, 11:44 PM
Leslie is where she deserves to be I'd say. Anytime you have a hand, knowingly, in taking a life it's unforgivable. She should spend the rest of her life in prison. She was extremely attractive back when she was following Charlie around. I'm almost surprised she would get involved with the guy. I guess that goes to show you what a sweet talker Manson really was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

genericwhitemale
07-07-2013, 11:44 PM
Deleted

genericwhitemale
07-07-2013, 11:48 PM
Leslie Van Houten should never be released from prison. It's bad enough that Steve Grogan aka Clem was released. Susan Atkins died in prison as she should have. None of the Manson "Family" members involved in these and other murders should ever be released.

Wasn't Grogan released because he's borderline retarded or something? Makes you wonder why the Governor of California intervened to have Bruce Davis' parole overturned after his parole was actually approved. How is Clem any different? Something is fishy there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

genericwhitemale
07-07-2013, 11:53 PM
Leslie is the poster child for why deprogrammers ought to be encouraged and government funded, rather than jailed for kidnapping. She could be anyone's teenaged daughter, sucked into something bigger than she was. With horrendous results all round.

I think she ought to stay in prison - for reasons stated by Trish above. Leslie narrowly avoided the death penalty via red tape, and therefore her punishment ought to be life no parole.

Leslie was actually released from prison for several months back in 1977 while she was being retried after winning an appeal. She was, from what I've heard, a model citizen during that time. Kind of the ultimate tease to be released then once again convicted and sentenced to life.


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Donamena
07-11-2013, 03:56 PM
Many years ago, just after this crime occurred, I happened to work with a young woman who had gone to school with Leslie Van Houten. The young woman stated, " I don't know what happened to Leslie. She must have just gotten in with the wrong crowd."
Even falling in with the wrong crowd is bad enough, she still must have had a vicious & remorseless psyche to do what she did. They should have been executed.

How easy to say 'yes, I did all of that horrific stuff, took an unborn baby's life by stabbing it to death in utero, but I'm older now & I somewhat regret my youthful indiscretion'

At the very least, LWOP.

Donamena
07-11-2013, 04:19 PM
I don't know if the parole board does this, but then I don't know why these vicious cretins should ever have a hearing-listen to Watson & Atkins' description of HOW they committed those murders. I went back & re-read them. It's so horrible that its obscene that these POS are still alive. It's unfortunate that the state of Texas couldn't keep Watson there & hang him, preferably with a very long rope.

genericwhitemale
07-12-2013, 05:18 PM
Many years ago, just after this crime occurred, I happened to work with a young woman who had gone to school with Leslie Van Houten. The young woman stated, "I don't know what happened to Leslie. She must have just gotten in with the wrong crowd."

I believe it. Looking back at old photos of Leslie it really makes you wonder. How did it all come to be? She doesn't seem to have any indicators in her background that would forecast such behavior. It was probably all done on impulse. Who knows. What she saw in someone like Charlie I'll never know.

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genericwhitemale
07-12-2013, 05:23 PM
Why doesn't Websleuths have a section specifically dedicated to the Manson Family and their crimes? Seems like a no-brainer to me. I'm sure it would see a lot of action with all the theories, details, and the general overall notoriety the topic still maintains to this day.


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genericwhitemale
07-12-2013, 05:42 PM
I think the truth is people don't change.

Totally disagree with this. If for no other reason than if you're right we're all f$&ked as a civilization.

"He who rejects change is the architect of decay. The only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery." - Harold Wilson



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OneLove
07-14-2013, 06:18 PM
I believe it. Looking back at old photos of Leslie it really makes you wonder. How did it all come to be? She doesn't seem to have any indicators in her background that would forecast such behavior. It was probably all done on impulse. Who knows. What she saw in someone like Charlie I'll never know.

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It is very very sad what drugs and traumas can do to individuals, especially young people. Who knows what brain changes happened from her 'experiences'. I'm not defending her, just saying that there are people everywhere whose personalities have altered due to emotional and physical shocks (my deepest empathy goes to war vets) and due to drug use, legitimate ones included. Many detox clinics and online forums are dedicated to helping those who are struggling with brain changes due to these prescriptions, many prescribed for stress or trauma in a person's life. I can't imagine what it would have been like to have someone in a fragile state fall into Charlie Manson's "family".

But I completely agree with Tricia's assessment of what should happen to Leslie. Murder has its just punishments, restitution can NEVER be made when a life is taken, it is in a whole different realm.

My heart does go out, though, to those who are in deep emotional or physical distress, and I hope they are blessed enough to find their way to positive solutions rather than downward spirals. In the very same vein, in a perfect world, wouldn't it have been nice if GZ had offered TM a ride home in the rain that night, offered him brotherly counsel,and served as a blessing in his life that may have made all the difference in the history of the world?

Namaste, y'all! ~OneLove

Donamena
07-19-2013, 12:14 PM
One Love, I understand the idea that you're working with here, & even though I'm a BAD Buddhist, I still wish to see what an MRI w/contrast of some of their brain matter would show. I vacillate in the old nature/nurture debate. I still feel that there must be something inherently wrong/debased/evil in one's nature, aside from a horrendous nurture, to produce people who can stab pregnant women, or even hold them down whilst being stabbed, or say they felt no sympathy/empathy while they did it. I just feel that there's more than nurture working for many of these wretches. And I do believe, however unpopular it may be, that some people are irredeemable.

4Jacy
08-04-2013, 04:37 PM
I've read that she has had several offers of employment, from her lawyers' offices and from friends of her family. This has been cited and backed up at the earlier parole hearings. Also--though this certainly doesn't guarantee a job--she has earned a bachelor's and (I think) a master's degree in prison. She also has organized and managed several service and educational groups inside Frontera.

BBM

I bet the people she helped murder wished they had had a chance at these accomplishments.

N.E.V.E.R, N.E.V.E.R. free any of them!!

4Jacy
08-04-2013, 04:40 PM
There is quite a bit of information all over the internet right now if anyone wants to "refresh" their memory of these unspeakable events and people involved.

Not very "refreshing" , however........

"trending" on Yahoo....# 1.........
I went to one site.....enough to do more damage to my psyche today ...along with missing Alisa........think I'll go get some breaths of fresh air and cool off a bit.....
I just don't know what I think about LVH being released.....
any more thoughts?

Not being snarky at all, I just have a hard time calling these monsters "people".

Cherry
08-04-2013, 05:02 PM
I'm against the parole board using her prior use of LSD and acid against her, actually denying parole due to what IF she were to cm under the control of smone else again. Or take acid again. I watched the last parole hearing and that is what it cm dwn to for them. Lvh should b released, IMO she is the only one that should b paroled in this case. The board is holding her prior use of LSD against her and that is against the law in and of itself. Thought police, this parole board, and illegal as well. No flames pls Hv known and followed this case for more years than I care to post, lol.

tgirl1130
08-04-2013, 05:24 PM
The first time I read Helter Skelter I culdn't sleep with the lights off for a week. (I was 25 years old at the time) I checked every window and door lock for a month and had nightmares of people breaking in my home. The worst part of that book was knowing it wasn't the imagination of a horror story author. It was a TRUE and REAL murder that happened and that there are actual EVIL people that cold do that to human beings. Those people should never breath free air again.

ceecee30
08-04-2013, 06:30 PM
I'm against the parole board using her prior use of LSD and acid against her, actually denying parole due to what IF she were to cm under the control of smone else again. Or take acid again. I watched the last parole hearing and that is what it cm dwn to for them. Lvh should b released, IMO she is the only one that should b paroled in this case. The board is holding her prior use of LSD against her and that is against the law in and of itself. Thought police, this parole board, and illegal as well. No flames pls Hv known and followed this case for more years than I care to post, lol.

I have to respectfully disagree, she murdered innocent people, acid or not, under control or not. SHE is a MURDERER.

None of those monsters deserve parole, they should have all been given death, they didn't allow their victims to live so why should they? All they are is a waste to tax payers money

ScarlettScarpetta
08-04-2013, 06:36 PM
I have to respectfully disagree, she murdered innocent people, acid or not, under control or not. SHE is a MURDERER.

None of those monsters deserve parole, they should have all been given death, they didn't allow their victims to live so why should they? All they are is a waste to tax payers money

Yes. IT was not just someone that she shot in self defense or an old boyfriend, These were innocent people they went out and tortured and butchered.
She should never ever see the light of day. None of them should.

genericwhitemale
08-05-2013, 02:57 PM
I'm going to drop some acid and see how if affects me. I'll report back on my findings.

borndem
08-05-2013, 05:55 PM
The first time I read Helter Skelter I culdn't sleep with the lights off for a week. (I was 25 years old at the time) I checked every window and door lock for a month and had nightmares of people breaking in my home. The worst part of that book was knowing it wasn't the imagination of a horror story author. It was a TRUE and REAL murder that happened and that there are actual EVIL people that cold do that to human beings. Those people should never breath free air again.

I'm with you, tgirl -- I got the book for Christmas just after it had been published, and we visited my DH's family just after Christmas Day -- I sat around with his family (about 20 of 'em -- cousins, aunt, uncles, etc., etc.), with my nose in that book until I finished it... I was cordial and social with them, but I did finish the book!

That book, and no other, convinced me that there should be a death penalty -- and I was quite against it before I read H. S. , but no more.

Did they have true Life Without Parole in CA when their sentences were changed? (In NC, we have only 2 sentences for 1st Degree Murder -- Death and true LWOP (it is true life; no parole, period). Each state is different...

STANDREID
08-05-2013, 06:03 PM
The first time I read Helter Skelter I culdn't sleep with the lights off for a week. (I was 25 years old at the time) I checked every window and door lock for a month and had nightmares of people breaking in my home.

When I was married, my ex-wife had that book and it was the first true crime book I read. After that, I went out and bought my own book about Jack the Ripper.

Donamena
08-11-2013, 12:14 PM
When I was married, my ex-wife had that book and it was the first true crime book I read. After that, I went out and bought my own book about Jack the Ripper.
They both kept me up all night with the lights on. Hubs was on golf-bonding-male-cousins holiday, before we got so many dogs that I have an early warning system & before my custom Japanese knives. The true crime is infinitely more horrifying than the fiction.

STANDREID
10-09-2013, 09:45 AM
Thanks, Stan, for that little anecdote -- not exactly endearing but a weird (of course) tidbit. Cray-cray then, cray-cray now. Peoria, huh? WTH was he doing up there? Thanks for the little bit!

Manson broke out of Boys Town with an accomplice named Blackie Nielson. They came here because Nielson had an uncle who lived in Peoria.

dgfred
11-07-2013, 12:24 PM
Why doesn't Websleuths have a section specifically dedicated to the Manson Family and their crimes? Seems like a no-brainer to me. I'm sure it would see a lot of action with all the theories, details, and the general overall notoriety the topic still maintains to this day.


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I would like that too. We could start a thread somewhere and maybe the WS would put it in it's own section or something.

Want to give it a try?

borndem
11-07-2013, 11:29 PM
I would like that too. We could start a thread somewhere and maybe the WS would put it in it's own section or something.

Want to give it a try?

I would like to see one on here, too!

And I would like one on Ted Bundy. There's lots of psychological stuff all over that story. Ted, his mom, his girlfriend, brown-haired women, etc. "The Mansons" and Ted could go in the "Famous/Infamous Murderer's Row" special category. What fun and good for sleuthing skills/research, etc.

:websleuther: .. :cop: .. :dracula: .. :ghost: .. :websleuther:

genericwhitemale
11-10-2013, 01:04 AM
I would like that too. We could start a thread somewhere and maybe the WS would put it in it's own section or something.

Want to give it a try?

Absolutely. Let me know what I can do to help.

OEJ
03-25-2014, 07:06 PM
Leslie is articulate, personable, and beautiful when she was younger. She seemed to say all the right things while closely watching an interviewer to try and gauge what her response should be. When she was younger, she said it was sad the victims were dead but said she still goes on. Okay, they're dead, but what about meeee? Later, she came to understand that she had to show remorse in order to have some hope of parole, but as time went by, she seemed to become disillusioned because saying all the right things weren't getting her out. I don't think she does have the insight to herself about what might have lead her to do it or a deep down dose of remorse about it. She just seems to think if she tells everyone what they want to hear in a lovely way that will get her through.