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Emma Peel
06-16-2010, 11:06 PM
Working Theories Thread

Here's the place to bring your theories and more complex analysis together using the facts and your powers of reasoning. Make Deductions Inductions, Intuitions, Speculations, Assumptions, and Hypothesize the day away. Problem Solve, Postulate, Percolate, Incubate, Ruminate, Mull your theories over. Expand them, refine them, have them tested, and best of all, get some friendly feedback from your fellow WSers. Theory & Analysis here presumed to be of speculatory nature. Please speculate responsibly and within TOS.

:detective: :waitasec: :bow: :idea: :thumb: :clap: :online: :curtsey: :aktion033: :shakehead: :read: :snooty: :crazy: :blushing: :yes: :Jumpie: :talker: :highfive: :toast:
:woohoo:

Notes:
This is not a general discussion thread. lf it becomes one, our theory thread might have to go away.

So, if you choose to post here, please know that:
1) you are either posting your own developed idea/theory/problem analysis for others to comment on, or
2) you're commenting on a theory that's been posted.

If you like some ideas from a previous theory, but want to post an entire theory of your own, you can credit the previous poster for helping you shape your ideas.

JBean
06-16-2010, 11:09 PM
I have to warn you that threads like this turn into general discussion.
so please post your theories and then move on. If this turns into a GD thread it will be closed.

If you are unable to post your theory because you suspect the family,do the best you can.

Kimster
07-05-2010, 10:59 PM
We are going to open this up again for discussion. Be sure to follow the perimeters set in the above two posts so we don't have to close it down again. :)

revampz
07-05-2010, 11:30 PM
My theory is that terri is indeed the key...........her husband has been having an affair and her son was sent away as he could not get on with Kaine......if she sent the son away it was to try and save her relationship, if he did she resented this, especially if she then still had to mother HIS child and he was in love with someone else and their relationship not good........I dont think she particularly like Kyron and is a very self centred person (taking the 2nd hubby to court 3 years after he had no contact with HER son and getting money from him, convinced me of this). The resentment either built up that day and after all the work she put into the project, he said something, and she told him to go to the car and killed him in an accident/fit of rage and put him in the river off that Island....

or

the resentment had been building up inside her like a pressure cooker and to get back at Kaine she has somehow...(a big big dont know how or where) sent Kyron off with someone.

citigirl
07-05-2010, 11:45 PM
Okay, this is my theory. I believe TH took Kyron at the school, premeditatedly, with the help of an accomplice who was familiar with the school and and had a reason to be there on June 4th. I have based this theory on the fact that I believe TH could not plan a way to get Kyron out of the school without being seen BY HERSELF.

I'm not sure about the motive, but I suspect the loss of income from her older son going to live with his grandparents triggered some arguments about money. Possibly she was being asked to pay child support, and she didn't want to go back to work. She couldn't get a teaching job and didn't want to work a cash register. I believe the atmosphere in the home was so poisoned that TH was in a rage. I am skirting the issue of the landscaper because I think there is more to that story than we know just now. I do not think TH's reasons for doing this would seem rational to most of us. I think anger made her irrational.

I think TH met the accomplice on Sauvie Island and, unfortunately, somehow Kryon was killed. I hope hope hope I am wrong about this and the little guy wandered away from school--will be found, and no one is to blame.

Questions I have that could make me change my mind or confirm what I am thinking:

1. Was a backpack left behind at school?
2. Did the LS ever do work at the school?
3. Was Kaine supposed to be at work all day and changed his mind last-minute? If so, why?
4. Why did TH's dad say TH thought there was a 50-50 chance she would be arrested for child endangerment?

I have other questions, too, but I think they cross the line into sleuthing people we are not able to sleuth just yet.

citigirl
07-05-2010, 11:47 PM
My theory is that terri is indeed the key...........her husband has been having an affair and her son was sent away as he could not get on with Kaine......if she sent the son away it was to try and save her relationship, if he did she resented this, especially if she then still had to mother HIS child and he was in love with someone else and their relationship not good........I dont think she particularly like Kyron and is a very self centred person (taking the 2nd hubby to court 3 years after he had no contact with HER son and getting money from him, convinced me of this). The resentment either built up that day and after all the work she put into the project, he said something, and she told him to go to the car and killed him in an accident/fit of rage and put him in the river off that Island....

or

the resentment had been building up inside her like a pressure cooker and to get back at Kaine she has somehow...(a big big dont know how or where) sent Kyron off with someone.

I like all your ideas--they fit with mine. I think rage is the key. I posted mine before I saw yours or I would have just added to it!

revampz
07-05-2010, 11:55 PM
yep rage is the key....I agree

Faulkner
07-05-2010, 11:58 PM
I think TH's son being sent away - which has been rumored in news articles to be because her bio son 'butted heads' with KH - set her off and she became determined to do whatever was necessary to shift the family dynamic again so she could bring her son back to live with her again.

Her first plan was to get rid of KH but - when she had trouble finding an accomplice - her fall back plan was to get rid of Kyron and then plead with KH that her son needed to be brought back to their home to reunite what was left of the family.

I don't get the feeling that she's a sociopath in the same way Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony appear to me to be, but I think she didn't want to get a divorce and wanted her biological son back living with her and was willing to devise whatever plan she could think of, criminally murderous or not, to achieve that objective.

JMO based on gut instinct and it may change tomorrow!

jessigirl
07-06-2010, 12:19 AM
There are some of us(myself included) that are feeling as tho this definitely was a premeditated(&IMO planned for quite sometime) "abduction" of Kyron, possibly even a homicide but either way I feel as tho this was given alot of fore thought(esp. since the murder for hire plot coming to light)which BTW if the murder for hire were a fabricated story Its IMO that Houze(known for his PR) would have IMMEDIATELY released a statement perhaps even a mandantory retraction with threats of lawsuit, none of thats happened and not only do I believe that there is evidence that this is infact TRUE, but I think it was a carefully timed "leak"(as I've read a few others that seem to think so to). IMO the murder for hire scheme was revised and the "disappearance" of Kyron took precedence over the Kaine scheme for a couple of reasons. For one, yes, its possibly to ensure the payoff(ineritance/life insurance)to just baby K and herself. Which with Kyron still in the picture it at the very least wouldve had to have been split with Kyron, or even possibly solely to Kyron(Which of course is DY by proxy). IMO this possibly could be part of TMH's "reasoning"(tho IMO seems to be questionable rationale at the least)but could have quite possibly been part of her revision of including Kyron.. But I think(&of course this is IMO and that is what we are doing here in"working theories" is speculating&giving our opinions)I think that her resentment/anger at Kaine(whether for a legit reason or out of severely deluded and distorted thoughts I don't know)but I think that TMH blamed, resented, and was angry at the fact that her teenaged son very recently(within past 6or so mos.[which look at the "for hire"scheme timeline they could easily coincide with one another])NO LONGER RESIDING WITH THEM in their North Portland home. I, as I've seen others have also seen it possibly REVENGE, "see how it feels"(of course quite obviously to an extreme of tit for tat) but I don't think we are dealing with someone that is in the right mind, healthy mind, however you want to phrase it, mentally sick, perhaps. I think that these reasons combined with anger/hurt of his possible infidelity and her already unhealthy mental state created the perfect storm and final snap that led her to revise her scheme. I quite possibly believe that in her revision she possibly saw it as to kill two birds with one stone. By getting rid of Kyron possibly in her mind was more punishment than death to Kaine(as in he'd suffer more not thru his death, but thru having to live thru the death of his son)... I am not sure as to which she was determined to put the plan into action with(and she possibly didnt know either, just had decided that Kyrons "disappearance" took precedence for whatever of those reasons)... ALL of that said is all in reference to the premeditation and also possible motives.
... BUT BACK TO DISAPPEARANCE OF KYRON and the thought that it was ALL PLANNED OUT. With TMH being a huge fan of crime shows(by her own admission CSI)we know they show LE using such technology as cell phone pings to track/trace a perps movements therefore leading LE to their guilty man. That said, she would have CERTAINLY known for a fact that her movements of that day would be so very easily tracked/traced by her cell phone.(I am not an avid watcher of the crime shows and know this to be a fact).. So, in her planning of Kyron's abduction(perhaps murder) her knowledge of this cell phone fact she could have decided to use to her benefit.. Let me explain.. What if she infact WANTED her movements thru out the day of June 4th to be traced/tracked to Sauvie Island. When infact she was no where near Sauvie Island on this day(except for dropping off phone/picking up phone from SI). Lets say she dropped the phone off on SI sometime that morning(this could be why LE says her cell phone pings don't mesh with her timeline of being at the school)because according to the cell phone pings she was already on SI and according to the pings she stayed on SI for several hours. When infact she had just taken her phone to SI(couldve been anywhere on that island, even just placed quickly off the side of the road in a ditch and later returned to retrieve it from that ditch)AFTER she had taken Kyron to an all together COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, NOWHERE NEAR NEAR SI where her cell phone pings would show her being at (when instead she went an entirely different route and direction with Kyron)... Therefore there would be no trace/track of her movements that day(atleast not thru the technology of the cell phone)it would appear that she was at SI for several hours that day when infact the cell phone was strategically placed on SI, she left without the phone and went on with her nefarious plans for Kyron and then only when COMPLETELY DONE with all that plan entailed did she return to SI to retrieve the strategically placed phone, which would then appear(by the cell pings)that she was JUST THEN leaving SI...So, if she was a fan of all the true crime and it would seem that there has been perhaps months of planning(i.e. murder for hire, then revised to get rid of Kyron first for whatever reasons, some I explained above).. It would certainly seem plausible (IMO) that she would use some knowledge of how technology "catches the perps" she instead use it to her advantage to "outsmart the cops"(and I've heard this mentioned several times does TMH think she can outsmart LE? my answer is yes(IMO) I think she certainly thinks she can outsmart and outwit these cops, I think she tried to think "steps ahead of them") I just hope for little Kyron's sake that LE is/has been onto her [IMO] long planned disappearance and/or murder of her innocent little step son...

human
07-06-2010, 12:40 AM
I think she saw that her soon to be ex was going to leave her.

She needed money to live. She really has no way of making much of a living. She would have to claim her DUI on a background check which may not help in getting a teaching job, esp with the child endangerment. Plus, she really didn't want to work as she was going to get back into body building which is a full-time job in itself.

Her ability to off her soon to be ex wasn't working out. I imagine it's a little difficult to find someone to do the job that you can trust and trust that they won't off you after they collect their payment.

Obviously she isn't too fond of her ex, so she decides to get rid of something he cares about.

What was next? Who knows.

Emma Peel
07-06-2010, 12:42 AM
REMINDER - for commenting on theories

If you're not posting a theory, but you wish to provide constructive feedback and/or comments on a posted theory - you're in the right place! Please provide details in your feedback to a theory - so the theorist can keep working on their theory.

It helps everyone trying to follow the theories & feedback if we quote the theory we comment on on in our posts.

Please feel free to snip the quoted theory respectfully for space. Just leave the first few lines visible, and don't delete the beginning quote command and end [/quote] command (both are in brackets).

If you're not posting a theory, or you're not replying to a theory, then ... your post might not belong on this thread. Yes, you've been inspired or you've just realized something but - Oh Dilemma! Where to post it?

Not to worry. This can be a good thing! It often happens during theory refinement - posters discover an area which needs more discussion - check existing threads for your topic or - start a specific subject thread to discuss what needs discussing. discussion of your new topic!

Just try to remember that general discussions arising out of a theory should not happen on this thread.

Thanks & Enjoy!

P.S. Thanks Kimster for letting us give this another try. :gomods:

ClueMeIn
07-06-2010, 12:57 AM
Jessie, You and I think alike!

Wise Old Owl
07-06-2010, 12:59 AM
I've been mulling this over and over all weekend.

IMO I do not believe TH did this out of revenge or jealously.

I think we are seeing a "new breed" of female perp. KC, Misty, Melissa Huckabee.

TH wanted - no, she LONGED for the "life she had" just a short 5 years ago. She was at peak body shape, winning (or placing in) competitions, her then BF (soon to be hubby) was "in love" with her, and she had 2 sons (one hers - the other the BF's and Kyron was very cute!). She was on top of the world.

Then it all started to crumble.

First, - the DUI which got DHS involved and possibly ruined her teaching career (that hadn't even gotten off the ground).

To make up for all that Kaine proposed marriage - in Hawaii no less. And shortly after TH pops up preggers. Kaine is overjoyed - and TH looks at it as just some "time off" from her bodybuilding.

Baby K arrives, older son "J" is going through the "teen rebellion" years (which are very very difficult) and Kyron is getting older (and to TH - more obnoxious).

Kaine is now no longer interested in "her" - her body has gone to chit, she can't loose the baby weight. Kyron is getting worse (in her eyes).

She sends "J" away - to get his act together - but TH looks at it more as some "freedom".

She can't get a job (hence the volunteering at Skyline). She can't make any money for herself. She can't get back to the gym on a regular basis because of all the "mommy duties".

She hates her life. She longs for the "life she had" as the center of attention. Things simmer to a heated boil and thus the plan to first off Kaine - that doesn't work. So, next the plan to get rid of Kyron.

I do believe she is very mentally unstable - but not to the point where she is this blubbering mess. I believe she has made "sarcastic" statements about the Kyron situation. I also believe she has alluded to "never giving up Kyron" - because that keeps the spotlight focused directly on her - which is exactly what she wants.

I, ME, MINE - pay attention to ME!!!!!

IMHO we're seeing it all over again - same problem - different scenerio.

gwenabob
07-06-2010, 01:13 AM
There are some of us(myself included) that are feeling as tho this definitely was a premeditated(&IMO planned for quite sometime) "abduction" of Kyron, possibly even a homicide but either way I feel as tho this was given alot of fore thought(esp. since the murder for hire plot coming to light)which BTW if the murder for hire were a fabricated story Its IMO that Houze(known for his PR) would have IMMEDIATELY released a statement perhaps even a mandantory retraction with threats of lawsuit, none of thats happened and not only do I believe that there is evidence that this is infact TRUE, but I think it was a carefully timed "leak"(as I've read a few others that seem to think so to). IMO the murder for hire scheme was revised and the "disappearance" of Kyron took precedence over the Kaine scheme for a couple of reasons. For one, yes, its possibly to ensure the payoff(ineritance/life insurance)to just baby K and herself. Which with Kyron still in the picture it at the very least wouldve had to have been split with Kyron, or even possibly solely to Kyron(Which of course is DY by proxy). IMO this possibly could be part of TMH's "reasoning"(tho IMO seems to be questionable rationale at the least)but could have quite possibly been part of her revision of including Kyron.. But I think(&of course this is IMO and that is what we are doing here in"working theories" is speculating&giving our opinions)I think that her resentment/anger at Kaine(whether for a legit reason or out of severely deluded and distorted thoughts I don't know)but I think that TMH blamed, resented, and was angry at the fact that her teenaged son very recently(within past 6or so mos.[which look at the "for hire"scheme timeline they could easily coincide with one another])NO LONGER RESIDING WITH THEM in their North Portland home. I, as I've seen others have also seen it possibly REVENGE, "see how it feels"(of course quite obviously to an extreme of tit for tat) but I don't think we are dealing with someone that is in the right mind, healthy mind, however you want to phrase it, mentally sick, perhaps. I think that these reasons combined with anger/hurt of his possible infidelity and her already unhealthy mental state created the perfect storm and final snap that led her to revise her scheme. I quite possibly believe that in her revision she possibly saw it as to kill two birds with one stone. By getting rid of Kyron possibly in her mind was more punishment than death to Kaine(as in he'd suffer more not thru his death, but thru having to live thru the death of his son)... I am not sure as to which she was determined to put the plan into action with(and she possibly didnt know either, just had decided that Kyrons "disappearance" took precedence for whatever of those reasons)... ALL of that said is all in reference to the premeditation and also possible motives.
... BUT BACK TO DISAPPEARANCE OF KYRON and the thought that it was ALL PLANNED OUT. With TMH being a huge fan of crime shows(by her own admission CSI)we know they show LE using such technology as cell phone pings to track/trace a perps movements therefore leading LE to their guilty man. That said, she would have CERTAINLY known for a fact that her movements of that day would be so very easily tracked/traced by her cell phone.(I am not an avid watcher of the crime shows and know this to be a fact).. So, in her planning of Kyron's abduction(perhaps murder) her knowledge of this cell phone fact she could have decided to use to her benefit.. Let me explain.. What if she infact WANTED her movements thru out the day of June 4th to be traced/tracked to Sauvie Island. When infact she was no where near Sauvie Island on this day(except for dropping off phone/picking up phone from SI). Lets say she dropped the phone off on SI sometime that morning(this could be why LE says her cell phone pings don't mesh with her timeline of being at the school)because according to the cell phone pings she was already on SI and according to the pings she stayed on SI for several hours. When infact she had just taken her phone to SI(couldve been anywhere on that island, even just placed quickly off the side of the road in a ditch and later returned to retrieve it from that ditch)AFTER she had taken Kyron to an all together COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, NOWHERE NEAR NEAR SI where her cell phone pings would show her being at (when instead she went an entirely different route and direction with Kyron)... Therefore there would be no trace/track of her movements that day(atleast not thru the technology of the cell phone)it would appear that she was at SI for several hours that day when infact the cell phone was strategically placed on SI, she left without the phone and went on with her nefarious plans for Kyron and then only when COMPLETELY DONE with all that plan entailed did she return to SI to retrieve the strategically placed phone, which would then appear(by the cell pings)that she was JUST THEN leaving SI...So, if she was a fan of all the true crime and it would seem that there has been perhaps months of planning(i.e. murder for hire, then revised to get rid of Kyron first for whatever reasons, some I explained above).. It would certainly seem plausible (IMO) that she would use some knowledge of how technology "catches the perps" she instead use it to her advantage to "outsmart the cops"(and I've heard this mentioned several times does TMH think she can outsmart LE? my answer is yes(IMO) I think she certainly thinks she can outsmart and outwit these cops, I think she tried to think "steps ahead of them") I just hope for little Kyron's sake that LE is/has been onto her [IMO] long planned disappearance and/or murder of her innocent little step son...

This is a good theory except for one thing: If she left the phone on SI because she wanted everyone to believe she was on SI while dumping a body someplace else, why lie about it? She could simply tell LE, "Yes, I was on SI buying berries to make jam." They never find a body on SI because only her phone was there. She has the perfect alibi when a body shows up at XXX 30 miles away.

oxymoran
07-06-2010, 01:23 AM
It started out as pure hate for Kaine. But by her 40th birthday in March 2010, having failed to have her husband killed,TH reflected that she could be left impoverished if she and Kaine split. She knew her prospects of getting a teaching job were zero in this economy. Feeling ultra-low that month, she even let Kaine get away with offloading her eldest son to Roseburg

While spilling her guts to a close friend who lived close-by to the Hormans, the friend countered with her own set of problems. The friend, who was also past her prime, desperately needed money to save her own home/business etc.

The two women drew strength from each other and planned the abduction and the steps and pings they would subsequently take to throw police off.

The co-conspirator would not look out of place at Skyline Elementary and is someone very well known to Kyron.

They figured the crime would ultimately yield cash thru lawsuits against the school and other promotional opportunities that in this digital age go with the media circus.

Seemed like "a good idea at the time"...defenseless victim...deep pocket School District...lots of media attention to meet their Drama Queen needs...get revenge on Kaine. Timing was good...Science Fair would create smoke. In any case, school would be out for Summer within days which would put the plan on hold for another 3 months and the co-conspirator needed cash quickly.

At the time she committed the crime, TH had abandoned her plan to take out Kaine...figuring she would hurt him more by going after his son. Evil.

The co-conspirator helped secure Kyron's removal from the school area and handed him off to a male third party, likely a family member of the co-conspirator, who took him to a holding spot outside Portland. Ultimately Kyron was taken to a longer term holding place.

I pray that he's still alive and at this point there is no reason to believe he's not.

mtnone
07-06-2010, 01:45 AM
Snipped by me.

It started out as pure hate for Kaine. But by her 40th birthday in March 2010, having failed to have her husband killed,TH reflected that she could be left impoverished if she and Kaine split. ..... Timing was good...Science Fair would create smoke. In any case, school would be out for Summer within days which would put the plan on hold for another 3 months and the co-conspirator needed cash quickly.

I pray that he's still alive and at this point there is no reason to believe he's not.

But, where is the fast cash coming from, for either of them until and if the new lawyer gets some for pics or whatever? Lawsuits can take years. She waited until it had been a month to get a lawyer, who may or may not be getting any money, but it will be to pay him, maybe?

Interesting theory though.

jessigirl
07-06-2010, 02:05 AM
This is a good theory except for one thing: If she left the phone on SI because she wanted everyone to believe she was on SI while dumping a body someplace else, why lie about it? She could simply tell LE, "Yes, I was on SI buying berries to make jam." They never find a body on SI because only her phone was there. She has the perfect alibi when a body shows up at XXX 30 miles away.
Actually I never said she lied about it or that she went with the SI alibi... I did indeed think of these possibilities, tho and maybe she did try to go with that she was there, but because it didn't mesh with timeline at school(verified by ppl such as Zimmerman)only led to more questions from LE.... Remember we don't know what Terri's alibi was for the time frame, only that its not seeming to add up, therefore its quite possible that she indeed is saying, as you said, "she was on SI buying berries to make jam"... We have no way of knowing whether she went with this as her alibi or not... But my theory if it happened to be close to the truth of this matter, then that point does not matter because
Either way she succeeded in throwing LE(even if temporarily) off of the real trail leading to Kyron.

oxymoran
07-06-2010, 02:06 AM
Snipped by me.



But, where is the fast cash coming from, for either of them until and if the new lawyer gets some for pics or whatever? Lawsuits can take years. She waited until it had been a month to get a lawyer, who may or may not be getting any money, but it will be to pay him, maybe?

Interesting theory though.

The McCann case out of the UK/Portugal wrote the book on raising money from missing children...generating a couple of million USD in the first few months and even more in subsequent months.

mtnone
07-06-2010, 02:24 AM
The McCann case out of the UK/Portugal wrote the book on raising money from missing children...generating a couple of million USD in the first few months and even more in subsequent months.

Really, I didn't know that. I have followed the case somewhat, but not closely. So the idea being you could raise enough to pay the lawyer and have more and have it fast. Not to have to wait for lawsuits?

Because I agree with you, she was about to need money in a big, big way. If she was willing to make the man that adopted her older son pay support when the bio dad didn't, even though he never saw the son, she will go to lengths to get money that doesn't involve working, clearly.

Thanks for the info on the McCann case, I will check it out.

wondering1
07-06-2010, 02:49 AM
is this msm? If so, it seems to indicate that TH was soliciting "lawn work" from just any old.

http://www.kxl.com/EXCLUSIVE-AUDIO--Landscaper-Acted-on-Lead-From-Ter/7620648

WholeLottaRosie
07-06-2010, 04:02 AM
Really, I didn't know that. I have followed the case somewhat, but not closely. So the idea being you could raise enough to pay the lawyer and have more and have it fast. Not to have to wait for lawsuits?

Because I agree with you, she was about to need money in a big, big way. If she was willing to make the man that adopted her older son pay support when the bio dad didn't, even though he never saw the son, she will go to lengths to get money that doesn't involve working, clearly.

Thanks for the info on the McCann case, I will check it out.

Think about the Anthony case, for one that comes to mind quickly. The grandparents had a booth or booths (maybe mobile booths) set up to give out flyers, but, they had a donation jar at each one. Who knows how much they brought in? They were also soliciting Walmart and Target gift cards to aid in their search.

I know years ago, I was involved with a fundraising effort to help someone get a liver transplant. We did all kinds of things, from concerts with well known artists, to raffles, etc. The biggest moneymaker was donation jars at local stores.

Mrs G Norris
07-06-2010, 04:19 AM
Ok...here's my theory.

I think that she always found Kyron to be a burden, but had done her duty (although resented it) for years. I think she had been dismissive towards Kyron, and was emotionally cruel towards him in private. She probably played hot & cold with him as it suited her, and toyed with his gullibility.

She had seen Kaine as a catch in the beginning of the relationship and had found him useful as financial support for her, if she moved in on Desiree she also would have enjoyed 'taking him' from her, and would have enjoyed the thrill of the chase. As his second wife she got positive attention from her role, from their relationship, and from her own interests such as body building.

The relationship goes sour however, and she starts to resent Kaine, she resents looking after Kyron, she has a baby, she gains weight, she is no longer getting positive attention about her body, she blames Kaine for this. Everything about Kaine and Kyron make her angry, Desiree and Tony make her angry - little slights start to build up and she's a walking pit of rage. She's thinking 'they don't know who they're messing with, they don't know what I am capable of, they are going to REGRET this' and her thoughts turn to revenge.

After giving up the idea of having Kaine killed via a hit man (or of doing it herself) she sets her sights on Kyron. She thinks 'I will hit him where it really hurts' and plots what she thinks is the perfect murder.

Everything is planned. The day 'science fair', local community aware, lots of extra people in and around the school, kids out of their regular classes, and it's on a Friday so parents and kids are already out of their usual routine. I think by helping him with his project she was deliberately earning his trust. In the days leading up to his disappearance she either dug a grave for him, or had a spot picked out that was VERY difficult to find, I think she deliberately caused confusion with the doctors appointment to buy her some time, I think she deliberately took a photo of him that morning to upload to her FB account to 'appear' caring for when people checked her account, I think she contacted the school during the day about when to pick up the project to see if his absence had been detected, I think she lured him out of the school through the side door with a 'c'mon Kyron, let's sneak out for the day, c'mon it'll be fun....why don't you go out the side door and I'll meet you around the back'...

I think Kyron thought 'Oh wow, she must really like me now....' and was excited to go.

And now that it is done with I think she's thinking about all the things she should have done differently and wondering if she'll get caught and that's about it.

sofia76
07-06-2010, 04:36 AM
Mrs. G Norris - My thoughts exactly. I am not 100% sure Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance, but I suspect very much that she is. And if she is, what you wrote is how it plays out in my mind. I would also add that I think money may have played a role in this. Well, maybe not money exactly, but resources. Resources that were going to Kyron that she may have wanted to go to her own child, or to herself.

Lokiza
07-06-2010, 05:26 AM
Sorry- had to move my previous post to a new thread.

My theory....SM is involved somehow. She has to be. Why would she do something to KH? I for one can not imagine being angry enough at someone I was in a state of mind to try to harm them or consider it. So- I would think motive is pure anger- maybe rage- kids often see the brunt of that in abuse situations...so why would it be different in this case?

I had considered before there was an affair playing a part in this somewhere...maybe revenge. Maybe something like she was so unhappy she wanted to get back at KH so do something to something very important...like a kid?

Heck I do not know...gives me the ebbie jeebies just trying to wrap my mind around the "why". Ewwww.

AbbieNormal
07-06-2010, 08:02 AM
Sorry- had to move my previous post to a new thread.

My theory....SM is involved somehow. She has to be. Why would she do something to KH? I for one can not imagine being angry enough at someone I was in a state of mind to try to harm them or consider it. So- I would think motive is pure anger- maybe rage- kids often see the brunt of that in abuse situations...so why would it be different in this case?

I had considered before there was an affair playing a part in this somewhere...maybe revenge. Maybe something like she was so unhappy she wanted to get back at KH so do something to something very important...like a kid?

Heck I do not know...gives me the ebbie jeebies just trying to wrap my mind around the "why". Ewwww.

All JMO- Raising Kyron was not a big deal at first, when he was little and she was probably getting mad props for raising another woman's child, attention, etc. She had "her Kaine" and am sure that she felt like the "Victor". Plus she had the bodybuilding thing going and looked and felt like a million bucks.
Then she gets pregnant and loses her body, is thrilled to have a little girl and is a little put off that Kaines attention isn't 100% on "their child" as Kaine also spends time with Terri's older son as well as Kyron. Then, her body is definately NOT the same, and then POSSIBLY she learns or suspects Kaine was having an affair with someone he worked with at Intel. How dare he cheat on her (not that its beyond her to cheat) after all she has done for him, raising his child (forget the fact that Kaine has supported her financially, gave her a brand new car, FGS, and enabled her to be a stay-at-home Mom) and now he is "hurting her" by being romanticly involved with someone else...plus she is feeling bad about the loss of her "perfect body".....so she hatches a plot to get rid of Kaine. She'll show him not to mess with her!!! Then problems arise with Terris own son, grades slipping, butting heads with Kaine, and Terri sends son to live w/grandparents. Part of her plan, worked right into her plan actually because with her son gone if "something happens" to Kaine, her son will not be a suspect...hes not living in the home.
Failing to get the lawn guy (and possibly others) to take her up on her offer of cash for kill, she decides to hurt Kaine in another way. Older son is gone and if Kyron was out of the picture life sure would be easier for her, only one kid, and her OWN child, at that, to take care of. Plus she would feel vindicated, Kaine would now be "hurting" as much as she is due to his supposed infidelities. Maybe she also thought the loss of Kyron would bring them closer together as a couple, and Kaine would drop his relationship with the person at Intel.
After this I don't go any further in my speculation/ theory because I don't want to think about what she could have possibly done to that innocent little boy. But IMO shes in this up to her eyeballs and the sooner she tells where Kyron is the better for everyone. Shes coming off as a cold hard B-word by not telling where Kyron is, her alibi's aren't adding up and even tho shes not been named a POI or suspect, most people think she had something to do with this. Including LE.
I will add JMO, its MOO.

abbie

Mrs G Norris
07-06-2010, 08:10 AM
I don't think anyone wants to think about what she actually did to this poor child...we're all avoiding that part of the story....but I really don't think she's ever going to admit anything that LE don't find out for themselves.

gliving
07-06-2010, 08:32 AM
This morning I'm going with a stranger luring Kyron away from the school. Everything else is too convoluted for my little brain.

I'd love it if someone could disprove my theory. Give me something to chew on. So far nothing I've read, and I've read it all, has ruled out an abduction.

:confused:

celticthyme
07-06-2010, 09:25 AM
My theory closely aligns with post #13 from Wise Old Owl. ..
I keep coming back to her lies, she could just be a pathologic liar, but once someone is caught in a lie, it's hard to base a foundation on anything that they say. Lies:
When she actually knew/ met Kyron's Mom & KH, times at the school on June 4, "everything is just fine" regarding the marriage.
We don't know if the "gardener" was a neighbor, romantic interest, acquaintance from the gym, school or all of the above.

I think she saw the big divorce thing coming a long time ago. Sorry, but just the short amount of information coming out of KH's mouth, and how very controlling he is, would have sent many running. I think she was "into him" for security. But he was no prize, and I do question a lot about him.

When you put together the few facts we actually do have, along with the Astro & dream information, I think this was definitely planned by TH. There was somehow a hand-off / luring at school by someone Kyron felt comfortable with, neighbor, family acquintance. I have no idea how he got out of the school. I do think he has been moved several times, and may still be alive. Sauvie Island, very important in the scheme of things. The birth parents & LE know way more than they are telling. I think the only reason she has not yet been arrested is that they think she may be able to still lead them to him or those who have him. Personally, I think that ship has sailed. What I can not figure out is WHY anyone would do this for her. And if several people were involved, one of them should have come forward by now.

I think she was desperate. In a bad marriage, not really "into" being a mom and all the responsibility that involves, but she had no real way of supporting herself, given her DUI, and lack of work history. Body building probably wouldn't work out at this juncture :0)

SweetLaura286
07-06-2010, 09:50 AM
Instead of speculation the whys etc, I would like to speculate on the how.

Very simple: Get to the science fair EARLY, make sure a few key people see you (PTA President, etc) snap the pic, get right out of there at like 8:20 before most people are arriving. Tell police you left at 8:45, after all, at least in the critical beginning, why would they be suspicious of your timing? You "did nothing wrong".

cluciano63
07-06-2010, 10:04 AM
I don't think anyone wants to think about what she actually did to this poor child...we're all avoiding that part of the story....but I really don't think she's ever going to admit anything that LE don't find out for themselves.

I totally agree. I think Terri is done talking, her statements are on record, and she and lawyer will sit back and wait for LE to eiither charge her based on those or discover enough solid evidence to do so. I think the only thing we will hear from her attorney is that Terri has been cooperating from the start and is anxious for Kyron to be found and have her name cleared.

And it could be a while before any of the above occurs. If ever.

KimberDoll
07-06-2010, 11:17 AM
My theory assumes that once the plot to be rid of hubby via murder by a hired landscaper/hitman wasn’t feasible it became obvious that “if you want a job done well, do it yourself” and the plan to be rid of a suspected cheating husband and his son was formed.

Motive: to have the lifestyle of her choosing with her own son, her baby daughter, home all to herself and an insurance payout to provide the income.

Plan: to murder hubby herself but make it appear as a suicide so that she would not be a suspect.

Problem: hubby has no obvious reason to commit suicide
Solution: murdering hubby’s son not only provides a rationale for hubby’s soon-to-occur “suicide” but removes the unwanted child from her future.

She takes boy to school but leaves with him shortly afterwards and disposes of him. She assumes he will become one of America’s (permanently) missing children. Days, weeks, or months later her husband is found as an apparent (but impossible to confirm) suicide victim.

This also explains how the poor woman could experience two deaths of family members in a very short time without casting any suspicion on herself. No accomplice and no one to rat her out. The perfect murders?

Susan10
07-06-2010, 11:44 AM
My theory -

All of it was premeditated. She began to loathe her husband, knowing that he was going to leave her. She had no prospects. He was worth more to her dead. She could start a new life with the insurance money.

She sent her teenage son away because she didn't want him being blamed for what she was going to do. The morning of the Science Fair, she dropped her daughter off at the babysitter's so DD wouldn't see anything or get in the way of mommy's murderous plans.

In her mind, she needed both Kaine and Kyron eliminated. With Kaine dead, she didn't want the burden of raising Kyron. She couldn't be sure TY would take him off her hands. She wanted to kill Kaine first, but knew that doing it herself would be too risky. She would be the first to be investigated. She knew she couldn't pull that one off very easily. When the yardman refused to cooperate, she became impatient and decided to do away with Kyron first. Then, maybe she could make Kaine's death look like suicide out of grief.

The Science Fair was a perfect time. Lotsa visitors supposed to be around....lotsa opportunities to shift the blame from herself....lotsa possible red-herrings and she knew there were no cameras.

She took the truck because she needed something that would not get stuck in the "off the beaten" track she planned to take Kyron. Also, the mustang is more likely to stand out. She knows the island very well.

She gets to the school early, takes an alibi picture to prove that she was there with Kyron, then she leaves the school with Kyron. She tricked him back into the truck somehow. Being early, there wouldn't be too many people around.

Just in case she couldn't pull it off that day, she had tommorrow covered with some phoney baloney doctor's appt excuse for why he wouldn't be in school. Kyron was going to disappear one way or the other on Science Day or the day after.

She drives straight to Sauvie with Kyron to her pre-determined site. She thinks because her phone is turned off, it cannot be pinged. She slept through that episode. She returns from Sauvie alone, goes home and gets on her computer to create some more alibi and cover stories about what she has been doing that morning.

Her husband comes home. All seems normal. He probably didn't know KH had taken their daughter to the babysitter.

On some pretext, she gets Kaine to go the bus stop with her, something he would not normally do. Did either of them usually go to the bus? She needed him there so that he could witness Kyron not being on the bus. Very calculated, ice cold. She then left it in his hands about what to do next, although she probably threw in a few suggestions since she'd been thinking about it all day.

In her mind, her plan is coming together and she sees herself as so smart. In her mind, Kaine deserved it. After all, he was not treating her as well as she believed he should be treating her. In her way of thinking, she had to do it. In her twisted mind she says to herself "If it wasn't for Kaine, I wouldn't be in this mess. It's all his fault." She continues to blame him to this minute. She is, however, wishing she'd done a few things differently.












She drives straight to Sauvie with Kyron to her pre-determined site. She returns alone and gets on her computer to create some more alibi and cover stories.

Her husband comes

shefner
07-06-2010, 12:09 PM
Geez...I like a lot of these theories as theories go...but I just don't see TH as being that smart. Having a hard time formulating a theory of my own though....In TH, we're dealing with someone who is not emotionally stable. When a person is not stable and not living or thinking in rational ways, the possibilities become endless.

keeponsearching
07-06-2010, 12:19 PM
I think it was a stranger abduction. One not plan for Kyron, he was just the one in reach.
I don't think terri was involve. If she wanted him gone, she could of easily pulled off a dissappearance at the beach, or park, ok I don't really mean easily, but you get my drift. School seems to tough, people would of seen her leaving with Kyron, If i go to a school, I always see at least someone......

With a SO or person not caught, I've heard get that urge and it doesn't go away. They could easily go into a school, and remove a child, maybe they said OH i got this great electric project in my car, wanna see, Maybe the perp said meet me by the back door, and Kyrons classmate saw him walking by....and then say here wear my hat, .....

DocBrainerd
07-06-2010, 12:25 PM
I just saw this thread and now realize this is probably the best place to aggregate my thoughts about this case.

From a post of mine yesterday:

It's all starting to make sense to me.

As per a scenerio mentioned previously in these threads and elsewhere, money was the motive. Not Kaine's life insurance, but a payout from the school district for a lost - and ultimately 'found dead' - kid. In this scenerio, Terri, possibly with the help of others, arranged Kyron's dissappearance from the school, with the intention of having it appear as if he wandered away on his own. The next step would be setting up the discovery of his body, with scene set up so it would appear Kyron's death was secondary to drowning, exposure, or some other plausibile accidental or natural cause. I would assume that Kaine was not 'in' on this plan, but anything is possible.

Ultimately, Kyron's family would be awarded a multimillion dollar settlement by the school district. Now, if all of the above has transpired as Terri had hoped, phase two of Terri's plan is set in motion. This part of her plan is to eliminate Kaine, leaving her and her two children wealthy and Terri once-again single. The hit man presumedly was contacted early-on so that he or she could possibly play a support role in the Kyron's dissappearance - or maybe Terri anticipated the public scrutiny and possible LE survellience that might be directed at her/the family after Kyron's dissapearance and just wanted to set her plan up well in advance. The hit-man would likely be informed by Terri that Kyron's dissapearance is part of the bigger plan, and that the hit should only take place if the plan is successful up to that point. If all transpires as Terri has planned, she then pays off the hit-man with her new fortune (or maybe the hitman also has an 'accident').

Unfortunately, Terri's plan falls apart sometime after Kyron dissappears. Maybe there are glitches in Kyron's removal from the school. Maybe Kyron's death does not go according to plan. Maybe people are unexpectedly present at her intended 'dump' site. Maybe Terri loses the support of an accomplice. Something doesn't go right and the plan falls apart. Kyron's body is then hidden, possible at location chosen 'just in case' - or, alternatively, an accomplice is tasked with disposing of Kyron at a remote location, ultimately well outside of the search zone.

The gardener/hit-man may have been awaiting his cue to move into action, provided that the plan transpired as Terri hoped it would. Well, according to this scenario, Terri's plan obviously did not transpire as she had hoped, and LE found the gardener/hit-man. At this point LE hatches a plan: the hit-man contacts Terri about what to do next - or about the possibility of a little hush-money. Of course he'd be wired and their conversation recorded. As has been reported, Terri cut the exchange short, possibly because Terri suspected a set-up by LE. Alternatively, Terri may not have suspected a set-up by LE, but nonetheless most certainly did not want any contact with the hit-man-to-be. Even if the latter was the case, and Terri did not know the meeting was set-up, the cat is out of the bag now. Meanwhile, Kaine is informed by LE, likely days in advance, and makes his planned departure with the infant daughter, and subsequently get's the RO and files for divorce.

[I]With regard to Kyron's removal from the school (also from an earlier post of mine):

I'm thinking Terri focused her effort on making it appear to those within the school (teachers, students, other parents, etc.) that she was leaving without Kyron, but her exit with him in the truck was designed to jibe with the doctor's appt scenerio. She probably instructed Kyron to meet her outside so she could take him to his doctor's appt. If Terri suspects that Kyron is observed re-uniting with her at the truck his 'dissappearance' doesn't happen and the plan is put on hold - she can drive Kyron around the block and fake a call to the Dr.'s office: "Oh the appointment has to be cancelled? Oh yes, that's alright...Hey Kyron, whaddaya say we go get a quick bite to eat?" - then drop him back off at school.

If she's successful at getting Kyron (still alive and under the impression he's going to the doctor's) out of the school, she then can carry out her plan to make it appear he's dissappeared from school.

cypress
07-06-2010, 12:34 PM
I'll toss in a theory:

I believe Kaine was abusive in some way, although probably not physically. I believe a lot of what we're seeing are byproducts of his controlling tendencies -- Terri not talking to the media (initially), Kyron staying in bed until someone came and got him, Terri's appearance, Terri's increasing dependence on the Internet for entertainment, perhaps even companionship. Despite what others think, I think the driving force behind a lot of this is Kaine's behavior. It's telling that Terri posted behind Kaine's back (the news websites comments), but that she would not openly "defy" him. I believe this is a metaphor for their marriage. On the surface, I believe Terri said and did everything Kaine wanted her to do, but underneath her outward agreeableness, she was seething/biding her time/wanted to get out but didn't know how she would financially survive when she got out.

I don't believe Terri is as self-centered and crazy as many paint her to be. I definitely believe this was a slow boil type scenario -- the DUI, gaining weight, marital troubles, kid troubles, Kaine not getting along with her son, etc. Sometimes, I think it's easier to throw disorders at someone or say they're insane because that makes them different than us. It's harder to deal with and fathom someone at the focus of this investigation who was basically a normal parent, stepmother, and wife until about a year ago (if the reports of murder for hire are to be believed). We don't want to see ourselves in someone like this, and so for us to process the evil of this situation we want distance. It is my firm belief Terri Horman was a basically normal person until this situation began to unravel nearly a year ago. I think what makes Terri different is in how she chose to handle her discontent. I think this is more about choices than mental illness.

For me, in this situation, logic dictates she planned Kyron's abduction and murdered him or helped murder him; either way, she is responsible. Maybe, in her mind, Kyron represented what had gone wrong, or she thought the loss of Kyron would reunify her and Kaine, but I think she was instrumentally involved in his disappearance and murder. I tend to think she had help of some sort (the lawn guy), but I do think Kyron is deceased. I think lawn guy (or someone appointed by Terri) lured Kyron somewhere away from the throng of parents and students with the promise of the cool electrical project. At that point, I think he was incapacitated and taken out of the school in some sort of container. Kyron was a small boy, it wouldn't have taken a large container. It wouldn't have seemed strange for a landscaper to move a small container, although I'm not convinced anyone saw him do this. I think this container was weighed down and dumped in water. I'm not convinced, beyond the initial incapacitation, anything was done to ensure Kyron's demise before he was dumped in water. I think if there was blood or gunpowder evidence, TH would be in custody. That she is not in custody tells me that LE may have evidence against her, but it is circumstantial at best.

magiemay
07-06-2010, 01:08 PM
I don't know if she blamed Kaine or Kyron for this situation she was in. But maybe the teen son was sent away for actions he had taken against Kyron and this was her reasoning to do the deed?? But there have been crimes where you could just not pin the motive because you can not think like these sick individuals. The one with the Sandra Cantu case was a good example I still can not fathom why this sicko did this to a child.

human
07-06-2010, 01:19 PM
Instead of speculation the whys etc, I would like to speculate on the how.

Very simple: Get to the science fair EARLY, make sure a few key people see you (PTA President, etc) snap the pic, get right out of there at like 8:20 before most people are arriving. Tell police you left at 8:45, after all, at least in the critical beginning, why would they be suspicious of your timing? You "did nothing wrong".

As a former teacher, I agree with that.

School bells are set to ring at the same time no matter what the situation.

First bell rings at 8:35. Last bell 8:45.

If NG is correct on the schedule, the science fair open part stopped at
8:30.

I don't think SM knew that as she had left the building by then.

Kids are in classrooms by 8:35-8:45.

Attendance, housekeeping, assigning to groups. Minimum 9:00 AM. Go on tour with groups to the fair.

I believe school buses arrive around 8:35.

I don't think school started at 10. School buses would be arriving at the normal times.

It's very difficult to change school bus schedules as it's like a choreography.

Gramof7
07-06-2010, 01:22 PM
My theory assumes that once the plot to be rid of hubby via murder by a hired landscaper/hitman wasn’t feasible it became obvious that “if you want a job done well, do it yourself” and the plan to be rid of a suspected cheating husband and his son was formed.

Motive: to have the lifestyle of her choosing with her own son, her baby daughter, home all to herself and an insurance payout to provide the income.

Plan: to murder hubby herself but make it appear as a suicide so that she would not be a suspect.

Problem: hubby has no obvious reason to commit suicide
Solution: murdering hubby’s son not only provides a rationale for hubby’s soon-to-occur “suicide” but removes the unwanted child from her future.

She takes boy to school but leaves with him shortly afterwards and disposes of him. She assumes he will become one of America’s (permanently) missing children. Days, weeks, or months later her husband is found as an apparent (but impossible to confirm) suicide victim.

This also explains how the poor woman could experience two deaths of family members in a very short time without casting any suspicion on herself. No accomplice and no one to rat her out. The perfect murders?

This is absolutely what I have been thinking also. She was going to create for herself the perfect life. Is it all you thought it would be Terri?

Aedrys
07-06-2010, 01:33 PM
I just saw this thread and now realize this is probably the best place to aggregate my thoughts about this case.

From a post of mine yesterday:

It's all starting to make sense to me.

As per a scenerio mentioned previously in these threads and elsewhere, money was the motive. Not Kaine's life insurance, but a payout from the school district for a lost - and ultimately 'found dead' - kid. In this scenerio, Terri, possibly with the help of others, arranged Kyron's dissappearance from the school, with the intention of having it appear as if he wandered away on his own. The next step would be setting up the discovery of his body, with scene set up so it would appear Kyron's death was secondary to drowning, exposure, or some other plausibile accidental or natural cause. I would assume that Kaine was not 'in' on this plan, but anything is possible.

Ultimately, Kyron's family would be awarded a multimillion dollar settlement by the school district. Now, if all of the above has transpired as Terri had hoped, phase two of Terri's plan is set in motion. This part of her plan is to eliminate Kaine, leaving her and her two children wealthy and Terri once-again single. The hit man presumedly was contacted early-on so that he or she could possibly play a support role in the Kyron's dissappearance - or maybe Terri anticipated the public scrutiny and possible LE survellience that might be directed at her/the family after Kyron's dissapearance and just wanted to set her plan up well in advance. The hit-man would likely be informed by Terri that Kyron's dissapearance is part of the bigger plan, and that the hit should only take place if the plan is successful up to that point. If all transpires as Terri has planned, she then pays off the hit-man with her new fortune (or maybe the hitman also has an 'accident').

Unfortunately, Terri's plan falls apart sometime after Kyron dissappears. Maybe there are glitches in Kyron's removal from the school. Maybe Kyron's death does not go according to plan. Maybe people are unexpectedly present at her intended 'dump' site. Maybe Terri loses the support of an accomplice. Something doesn't go right and the plan falls apart. Kyron's body is then hidden, possible at location chosen 'just in case' - or, alternatively, an accomplice is tasked with disposing of Kyron at a remote location, ultimately well outside of the search zone.

The gardener/hit-man may have been awaiting his cue to move into action, provided that the plan transpired as Terri hoped it would. Well, according to this scenario, Terri's plan obviously did not transpire as she had hoped, and LE found the gardener/hit-man. At this point LE hatches a plan: the hit-man contacts Terri about what to do next - or about the possibility of a little hush-money. Of course he'd be wired and their conversation recorded. As has been reported, Terri cut the exchange short, possibly because Terri suspected a set-up by LE. Alternatively, Terri may not have suspected a set-up by LE, but nonetheless most certainly did not want any contact with the hit-man-to-be. Even if the latter was the case, and Terri did not know the meeting was set-up, the cat is out of the bag now. Meanwhile, Kaine is informed by LE, likely days in advance, and makes his planned departure with the infant daughter, and subsequently get's the RO and files for divorce.

[I]With regard to Kyron's removal from the school (also from an earlier post of mine):

I'm thinking Terri focused her effort on making it appear to those within the school (teachers, students, other parents, etc.) that she was leaving without Kyron, but her exit with him in the truck was designed to jibe with the doctor's appt scenerio. She probably instructed Kyron to meet her outside so she could take him to his doctor's appt. If Terri suspects that Kyron is observed re-uniting with her at the truck his 'dissappearance' doesn't happen and the plan is put on hold - she can drive Kyron around the block and fake a call to the Dr.'s office: "Oh the appointment has to be cancelled? Oh yes, that's alright...Hey Kyron, whaddaya say we go get a quick bite to eat?" - then drop him back off at school.

If she's successful at getting Kyron (still alive and under the impression he's going to the doctor's) out of the school, she then can carry out her plan to make it appear he's dissappeared from school.

I like your theory, but I'm not sure she'd trust someone else with the disposal of Kyron's body. And something else just occurred to me.

What if she did like you said, got him away from the school and to Sauvie island for the hand off or where she was going to do him in, and he got a bee sting and died from the allergic reaction? She had to know he was allergic, but she was probably so intent on doing what she was doing that she didn't think about it until it was too late. Can't take him to a hospital because then dad is going to wonder how he got stung by bee when he was supposed to be in school. Maybe it was more than one bee. Maybe he accidently upset an entire hive of bees? Maybe LE found this dislodged hive and something to connect Kyron to it, and that's why the bee allergy was released? To say we know exactly what happened, show us the body?

This would also upset her plans for the mulitimillion dollar lawsuit against the school. Maybe she planned to have him come back alive, but he got stung by bees and died instead. Maybe this happened while he was in the hands of an accomplice she didn't bother to tell about the bee allergy. I can totally see this happening, and all there's left to do is hide the body and hope it's never found. And it would be a big, huge barb against TH to reveal the bee allergy to really make her sweat because she would know that LE is really close to the truth!

This just occurred to me today. I know it's out there, but I can't get past that only now, a month later, they've released the bee allergy and his birthmark (obviously, it would be showing if he was stung by a bee or more than one bee). I also don't know about bees in Oregon, so if I'm wrong on this, please let me know Oregonites (or is it Oregonians?).

cypress
07-06-2010, 01:42 PM
Kimberdoll:

If I'm not mistaken, an insurance payout will not occur if the holder commits suicide. I think this is fairly well-known (re: Terri would probably know this).

liz b.
07-06-2010, 01:45 PM
After looking at many possibilities,I'm going with my original instinct : Kyron was lured from the school by someone he knew,possibly the parent of another student,or a volunteer. An unregistered,under the radar sex offender.This had been planned for a while,and Kyron may well have been "groomed ". Kyron was lured into this person's vehicle,and taken pretty far from the whole area. Absent a confession (unlikely) he may never be found....

All JMO

just
07-06-2010, 01:47 PM
The McCann case out of the UK/Portugal wrote the book on raising money from missing children...generating a couple of million USD in the first few months and even more in subsequent months.

That's just beyond heartbreaking. My theory is similar to most (all quotes for emphasis by me except where noted):
1) Premeditated by KH - motive, son sent away, or affair, or threat of divorce - and just plain delusional maliciousness
2) Took picture of him at school *early* in that CSI shirt to add one more layer of hate and irony
3) Asked Kyron to go see the last exhibit he wanted to, then meet her by the side where she would pull up the truck - before the first bell or right at it when kids are running like crazy to class
4) Went to SI or had her phone go there (this I haven't figured out) either to commit the crime or throw LE off (I think she forgot about the cell pings and actually went there)
5) Put pour Kyron in a container of some sort - aka Ward Weaver (who, remember, had cadaver dogs search his property and come up empty handed when one of the girls was in a container in his shed)
6) I think she put him in the river because that's worked for Misty as well as others and she has probably read articles about other cases and the comments from LE about when it can be difficult to find a body, so that's what she would do - I believe she's too smart to Google 'how to dispose of a body' but who knows
7) I think she has enjoyed watching KH suffer and in her mind believes 'he' did it - meaning if he didn't do *whatever* (send son away, threaten divorce, have an affair -- all speculative by me but you get it) then she wouldn't have *had* to do this.
8) I do believe she intends to make money off this 'because she has to' now that KH left her

I truly believe she feels angry with LE for having the 'nerve' to 'harrass her' when they have no evidence and aren't 'playing but the rules.' That is, the rules she defines which are they can't prove anything so until they can, get lost. I really think she has that mindset of entitlement, selfishness and arrogance.

I do think LE has learned alot from Weaver, maybe even poor little Haleigh Cummings, so they are one step ahead of a personality like that and will be able to solve this.

I hope I'm wrong on the above and she sold him to someone and he will come home.

oxymoran
07-06-2010, 01:51 PM
please let me know Oregonites (or is it Oregonians?).

Its Oregonians like the Newspaper...but Oregonites is a lot more cool...kindof like they're from a different planet!

cluciano63
07-06-2010, 01:52 PM
Kimberdoll:

If I'm not mistaken, an insurance payout will not occur if the holder commits suicide. I think this is fairly well-known (re: Terri would probably know this).

Actually, you often can collect, as long as the policy is at least two years old, or sometimes, one year. You just can't if the policy is fairly new or unless it stipulates specifically that suicide is never covered.

Morag
07-06-2010, 01:53 PM
Kimberdoll:

If I'm not mistaken, an insurance payout will not occur if the holder commits suicide. I think this is fairly well-known (re: Terri would probably know this).

Not strictly true- if a policy is bought this week, and the person commits suicide next week, obviously there would be no payout. On many policies there is a 2 (or more) year waiting period. Then you can off yourself with impunity, knowing that your beneficiaries will be taken care of.

Wendy101
07-06-2010, 01:57 PM
Q - if Terri did this and had "partner" (lawnman) , that infact took Kyron out of the school while Terri waited somewhere, can Kaine sue the school?

also, I would like to know if Kaine can sue the school, if Terri was the one that snuck him out...

cypress
07-06-2010, 02:03 PM
Thanks for the clarification about suicide/insurance payout!

cluciano63
07-06-2010, 02:06 PM
Q - if Terri did this and had "partner" (lawnman) , that infact took Kyron out of the school while Terri waited somewhere, can Kaine sue the school?

also, I would like to know if Kaine can sue the school, if Terri was the one that snuck him out...

If it was Terri, I assume she had authority to take Kyron out...if it anyone but Terri, I think Kaine would have a case.

I just don't see an accomplice here and can't make myself find a way to think she had one, if it is in fact Terri. To me it is too big of a risk, favor, whatever you want to call it, for her to find anyone to go along with such a plot. And far easier for her to take Kyron out, one way or another, than risk having Kyron seen with a stranger who just might talk if caught.

Kimster
07-06-2010, 02:40 PM
Working Theories Thread

Here's the place to bring your theories and more complex analysis together using the facts and your powers of reasoning. Make Deductions Inductions, Intuitions, Speculations, Assumptions, and Hypothesize the day away. Problem Solve, Postulate, Percolate, Incubate, Ruminate, Mull your theories over. Expand them, refine them, have them tested, and best of all, get some friendly feedback from your fellow WSers. Theory & Analysis here presumed to be of speculatory nature. Please speculate responsibly and within TOS.



Notes:
This is not a general discussion thread. lf it becomes one, our theory thread might have to go away.

So, if you choose to post here, please know that:
1) you are either posting your own developed idea/theory/problem analysis for others to comment on, or
2) you're commenting on a theory that's been posted.

If you like some ideas from a previous theory, but want to post an entire theory of your own, you can credit the previous poster for helping you shape your ideas.BBM in note section

This is not a general discussion thread. Please continue to enjoy posting your theories. Thanks :)

AlexisFresca
07-06-2010, 02:43 PM
If it was Terri, I assume she had authority to take Kyron out...if it anyone but Terri, I think Kaine would have a case.

I just don't see an accomplice here and can't make myself find a way to think she had one, if it is in fact Terri. To me it is too big of a risk, favor, whatever you want to call it, for her to find anyone to go along with such a plot. And far easier for her to take Kyron out, one way or another, than risk having Kyron seen with a stranger who just might talk if caught.


I'm not ready to lean towards an accomplice just yet, either. Can't help but feel if there was one, they would have been found by now? True, we don't know what LE knows at this point, either.

Theres also the risk the accomplice would betray you and turn you in. I can't think of anything that Terri has that would entice an accomplice to keep quiet? With the noose tightening around Terri's neck, would she risk naming the accomplice in a way to make it seem the accomplice was fully responsible? That this person took over her plan of 'temporarily stashing' Kyron and it got out of hand? The tables turned and now she's equally a victim like Kyron?

CASH
07-06-2010, 02:47 PM
I think TH suffers narcissistic personality disorder, amongst other things. Kaine was useful to her for many years. He had a good job with a good income. By partnering with him, she could play the role of the savior - the selfless woman who came to the rescue of a poor man struggling to raise an infant on his own. She could become the selfless stepmother, who raised this baby as her own. For her sacrifice, she is rewarded with marriage, nice cars, and a nice home. But she is not content to play out this mother role at home, she must compete on a public stage (we know she likes competitions). So she becomes the active classroom mother, a teacher in training, the mom all of the other PTA moms respect and admire. But it is still not enough......

The child she used as a vessel to secure Kaine's attention and his lifestyle is growing up, and his own biological mother is well again and a part of his life. She has to share Kyron's adoration with another woman. She sees the way his face lights up when he talks about "Momma" and she knows, as all stepmothers do, that she can never truly compete with his "real" mother. The child is older now, and Kaine needs her less than he did when Kyron was an infant.

So how does she get that high back and claim her role as the perfect and needed mother in Kaine's life? She gets pregnant with his child. At first it seems to do the trick..the child is adorable, she looks like her, and Kaine is crazy about his new little girl. But, maybe his attentions are focused on someone else, or she is so paranoid about the changes to her body that she imagines he is having an affair. He can't devote 100% attention to her daughter, because he has a son he loves just as much. Her daughter has to share time and resources with Kyron, even though Kyron has another mother and another home to call his own. Sending him away won't work...either Kaine would object, or Kaine would have to pay child support. Besides, what loving stepmother would suggest sending Kaine's son away? It doesn't match with her image.

As her "perfect" world unfolds around her, she seeks ways to secure the things that matter most to her: herself, her daughter as reflection of herself, and her lifestyle. Killing Kaine is one option..as his wife and mother of one of his children, she is likely named as his beneficiary - even if some of the benefit is also to be paid to Kyron. She would get the house, the cars, and more importantly, she would be portrayed once again as the selfless victim, doing her best to raise a child alone as widow. When this doesn't work, she comes up with plan two. She gets rid of the child she is growing to resent and who is competing directly with her own child for money and Kaine's attention. The tragedy brings them closer together, as Kaine would never want to leave her now and risk losing his only surviving child to divorce. She gets the public's sympathy as the woman who endured the unthinkable..a child abducted and killed. She would write a book, do the talk show circuit, and become a national spokesperson for missing children. Everyone would know what an incredible mother she had been to Kyron and how much tragedy had befallen her family. Even if Kaine eventually leaves, she will be rich from all of the fame and attention brought by poor Kyron's disappearance.

This explains why..what about how? How is pretty easy. You take Kyron to school early before school technically starts. You leave almost as soon as you came, once enough credible people can verify that he was there. You tell the teacher he has an appointment, but you are vague enough to cause confusion. You tell Kyron that morning that he is going to school to drop off his exhibit, but that he has to go to a doctor's appointment soon afterwards. You tell him to leave his things because he will be back in soon once the appointment is over. He and she leave together in the truck without incident. On a day when families are unloading kids and science exhibits, no one thinks twice about a child walking to his car with his mother before school starts.

Does she kill him? Killing him is risky, as the body will likely eventually be found. It is also messy. She sells him so that she can honestly claim that she has no idea whether he is alive or not or where he is. If his body is found too quickly, the attention fades. If he is never found, he becomes a missing child whose story is replayed time and time again and she stays in the spotlight.

shefner
07-06-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm not ready to lean towards an accomplice just yet, either. Can't help but feel if there was one, they would have been found by now? True, we don't know what LE knows at this point, either.

Theres also the risk the accomplice would betray you and turn you in. I can't think of anything that Terri has that would entice an accomplice to keep quiet? With the noose tightening around Terri's neck, would she risk naming the accomplice in a way to make it seem the accomplice was fully responsible? That this person took over her plan of 'temporarily stashing' Kyron and it got out of hand? The tables turned and now she's equally a victim like Kyron?

But it has been reported that she was willing to have an accomplice to help with her husband's murder. So to me, its obvious that she's willing to seek out help to get the end result.
I am trying to think about myself. When I took my young children to school, I most often spoke to the parents first before speaking to their little ones. It was the parents I noticed first....then their children. Perhaps she realized that someone might notice her leaving with Kyron before they would pay attention to a stranger leaving with him. Not sure though....

just
07-06-2010, 02:54 PM
Ok...here's my theory.

I think that she always found Kyron to be a burden, but had done her duty (although resented it) for years. I think she had been dismissive towards Kyron, and was emotionally cruel towards him in private. She probably played hot & cold with him as it suited her, and toyed with his gullibility... (snipped)

And now that it is done with I think she's thinking about all the things she should have done differently and wondering if she'll get caught and that's about it.

I agree with everything - including her being nervous now (she looked terrified and guilty from day 1) - except I think she adamantly believes no body, no crime so she's just going to hope it all goes away. I don't think she counted on the landscaper coming forward, but is trying to use that to her advantage, as in 'hey has he had a polygraph?" Maybe she'll claim they had an affair and he's bitter. There will be more to this sad story!

AlexisFresca
07-06-2010, 03:15 PM
But it has been reported that she was willing to have an accomplice to help with her husband's murder. So to me, its obvious that she's willing to seek out help to get the end result.
I am trying to think about myself. When I took my young children to school, I most often spoke to the parents first before speaking to their little ones. It was the parents I noticed first....then their children. Perhaps she realized that someone might notice her leaving with Kyron before they would pay attention to a stranger leaving with him. Not sure though....


Unfortunately, I think for many of us, the opinions change daily, if not several times a day. That being said, after thinking about it some, imo, it seems easier to find an accomplice to kill a husband for someone, than it is to find someone to kill a child for you? People seem to have more contempt for those who hurt an innocent child rather than an adult. Unless, that accomplice is a SO?

In the case of Tori Stafford, the girl who lured Tori away had a boyfriend who was into that sort of thing; in her eyes I imagine her delivering Tori to this boyfriend was a 'reward or present' for him, thus a way to entice him to stay with her, even though it was reported he had moved on to seeing other women, unbeknownst to her.

So would Teri have that same train of thought? If her accomplice was a SO, how would she contact one without suspicion? The family member seems to risky a path to take, imo.

Meh, I just don't know anymore.

Faulkner
07-06-2010, 03:28 PM
I just saw this thread and now realize this is probably the best place to aggregate my thoughts about this case.

From a post of mine yesterday:

It's all starting to make sense to me.

As per a scenerio mentioned previously in these threads and elsewhere, money was the motive. Not Kaine's life insurance, but a payout from the school district for a lost - and ultimately 'found dead' - kid. In this scenerio, Terri, possibly with the help of others, arranged Kyron's dissappearance from the school, with the intention of having it appear as if he wandered away on his own. The next step would be setting up the discovery of his body, with scene set up so it would appear Kyron's death was secondary to drowning, exposure, or some other plausibile accidental or natural cause. I would assume that Kaine was not 'in' on this plan, but anything is possible.

Ultimately, Kyron's family would be awarded a multimillion dollar settlement by the school district. Now, if all of the above has transpired as Terri had hoped, phase two of Terri's plan is set in motion. This part of her plan is to eliminate Kaine, leaving her and her two children wealthy and Terri once-again single. The hit man presumedly was contacted early-on so that he or she could possibly play a support role in the Kyron's dissappearance - or maybe Terri anticipated the public scrutiny and possible LE survellience that might be directed at her/the family after Kyron's dissapearance and just wanted to set her plan up well in advance. The hit-man would likely be informed by Terri that Kyron's dissapearance is part of the bigger plan, and that the hit should only take place if the plan is successful up to that point. If all transpires as Terri has planned, she then pays off the hit-man with her new fortune (or maybe the hitman also has an 'accident').

Unfortunately, Terri's plan falls apart sometime after Kyron dissappears. Maybe there are glitches in Kyron's removal from the school. Maybe Kyron's death does not go according to plan. Maybe people are unexpectedly present at her intended 'dump' site. Maybe Terri loses the support of an accomplice. Something doesn't go right and the plan falls apart. Kyron's body is then hidden, possible at location chosen 'just in case' - or, alternatively, an accomplice is tasked with disposing of Kyron at a remote location, ultimately well outside of the search zone.

The gardener/hit-man may have been awaiting his cue to move into action, provided that the plan transpired as Terri hoped it would. Well, according to this scenario, Terri's plan obviously did not transpire as she had hoped, and LE found the gardener/hit-man. At this point LE hatches a plan: the hit-man contacts Terri about what to do next - or about the possibility of a little hush-money. Of course he'd be wired and their conversation recorded. As has been reported, Terri cut the exchange short, possibly because Terri suspected a set-up by LE. Alternatively, Terri may not have suspected a set-up by LE, but nonetheless most certainly did not want any contact with the hit-man-to-be. Even if the latter was the case, and Terri did not know the meeting was set-up, the cat is out of the bag now. Meanwhile, Kaine is informed by LE, likely days in advance, and makes his planned departure with the infant daughter, and subsequently get's the RO and files for divorce.

[I]With regard to Kyron's removal from the school (also from an earlier post of mine):

I'm thinking Terri focused her effort on making it appear to those within the school (teachers, students, other parents, etc.) that she was leaving without Kyron, but her exit with him in the truck was designed to jibe with the doctor's appt scenerio. She probably instructed Kyron to meet her outside so she could take him to his doctor's appt. If Terri suspects that Kyron is observed re-uniting with her at the truck his 'dissappearance' doesn't happen and the plan is put on hold - she can drive Kyron around the block and fake a call to the Dr.'s office: "Oh the appointment has to be cancelled? Oh yes, that's alright...Hey Kyron, whaddaya say we go get a quick bite to eat?" - then drop him back off at school.

If she's successful at getting Kyron (still alive and under the impression he's going to the doctor's) out of the school, she then can carry out her plan to make it appear he's dissappeared from school.

This is an interesting theory, DocBrainerd, and Terri may have also planned to set up a public donation site to fund the 'search' for Kyron after Kaine's unfortunate demise which would keep donations rolling in while the lawsuit was pending. Both could bring in a lot more money than Kaine's life insurance policy alone.

And I wonder if she planned to give Kaine some sort of a drug that might likely cause a heart attack but not show up in a regular autopsy -- then people would just think the heart attack was caused by grief and stress over his missing son. The payout from the insurance policy would be no problem, then, and that would also gain her sympathy with a potential jury that would award damages from the school district.

I do think Terri ideally envisioned a life with her two biological children and herself and this would give her the financial resources to comfortably fund such a life.

As far as impending divorce being a motivating factor as some theories have mentioned, I'm not sure that a divorce was definitely coming in that family prior to all of this primarily because Kaine strikes me as someone who doesn't like change. Desiree was the one who filed for divorce from him and, while he may have been having an affair, my gut instinct is that he would not want to start all over again with another broken family with a very young child as was the case when he split from Desiree.

Kaine also has shown controlling tendencies, IMO, so I'm not sure getting rid of just Kyron would mean that Terri would necessarily see much in the way of any sort of financial gain from any sort of insurance of Kyron's, lawsuit or donation fund as Kaine would likely control that fairly closely. Getting rid of both of them sovles that problem, however.

And I definitely think the doctor's appointment was a premeditated factor designed to cause confusion over Kyron's whereabouts that day and one of the few factual things, of what we know so far, that points to premeditation. I also think she met Kyron outside a less frequent exit/entrance with the truck rather than risk being seen leaving with him and if she was seen picking him up in the truck she could just call off the plan for that day. And leaving the Dr's appointment vague could have been Terri's excuse for anyone who saw her picking up Kyron in the truck, it was something that caused confusion as to where he was when he was determined to not be in school and then could be turned around against the school in a lawsuit where she would have reverted back to claiming that the appointment was for the following week and the school was in error.

And, initially, I thought the timing for this had all been spurred by Terri's biological son being sent away, but now seeing that Terri may have tried to hire another landscaper/murderer last year, as well, I think that maybe she realized that getting rid of Kaine would be difficult unless, maybe, he appeared to have a heart attack due to grief over his son who had been missing a couple of months. And, in that case, she could handle administering a drug to Kaine a couple of months after doing away with Kyron -- both without an accomplice which seemed difficult to secure.

ETA: Really interesting reading everyone's theories. I only wish this was an episode of a crime show rather than real speculation over Kyron's disappearance. :sick:

cindysue
07-06-2010, 03:56 PM
I really dont think she had an accomplise,,she tryed to get help before without much luck and also people would notice a strange man or women lurking around without a kid !!!

quadlatte
07-06-2010, 04:09 PM
What do we know about TH?
Is she still a heavy drinker?
Looking a pictures on the news TH still had a thin shape after
delivering her baby.But in 18 months I noticed she left herself go........drinking?

BBM - I wanted to post this observation earlier, but it didn't seem appropriate.

However, in light of recent news (divorce, RO, alleged murder-for-hire), I think that her RECENT weight change could have something to do with poor Kyron's disappearance.

My theory isn't much different than most on this thread, but I do think that there is something to her WEIGHT GAIN.

I noticed immediately that pictures with her right after Baby K. was born, she was still quite fit. From the pictures, she didn't let herself get out of shape until quite recently.

Passionflower's quote above was posted on the thread about TMH's DUI, and wonders if drinking (IMO recent, heavy drinking, if so) could play a role... I would add to that the many prescription meds (esp for mood disorders) that cause you to put on weight rapidly.

Some of these meds have been alleged to cause suicidal thoughts/actions, and unfortunately I know from experience how some can react "badly" (to put it mildly) with certain personality types...

That being said, my theory is not that TMH has mental issues (indeed she may have) but that a particular combo of prescription meds and/or drinking and/or drugs could very well have helped move TMH into action.:waitasec:

That's all I have so far.:blushing:

passionflower
07-06-2010, 04:20 PM
I really dont think she had an accomplise,,she tryed to get help before without much luck and also people would notice a strange man or women lurking around without a kid !!!
May I add to your theory:
unless it was someone that he knew .............
that belonged there also, another child's parent, friend of TH????

passionflower
07-06-2010, 04:24 PM
BBM - I wanted to post this observation earlier, but it didn't seem appropriate.

However, in light of recent news (divorce, RO, alleged murder-for-hire), I think that her RECENT weight change could have something to do with poor Kyron's disappearance.

My theory isn't much different than most on this thread, but I do think that there is something to her WEIGHT GAIN.

I noticed immediately that pictures with her right after Baby K. was born, she was still quite fit. From the pictures, she didn't let herself get out of shape until quite recently.

Passionflower's quote above was posted on the thread about TMH's DUI, and wonders if drinking (IMO recent, heavy drinking, if so) could play a role... I would add to that the many prescription meds (esp for mood disorders) that cause you to put on weight rapidly.

Some of these meds have been alleged to cause suicidal thoughts/actions, and unfortunately I know from experience how some can react "badly" (to put it mildly) with certain personality types...

That being said, my theory is not that TMH has mental issues (indeed she may have) but that a particular combo of prescription meds and/or drinking and/or drugs could very well have helped move TMH into action.:waitasec:

That's all I have so far.:blushing:

ITA......this is part of my theory:..........rage, revenge on Kaine, freedom,
depression, anger.

cluciano63
07-06-2010, 04:29 PM
May I add to your theory:
unless it was someone that he knew .............
that belonged there also, another child's parent, friend of TH????

If TH has such a friend...why hit up landscapers?

And unless Le has basically been lying to the community, saying this is a Kyron-focused event, I just don't see it being some other parent. And they are practically singing out that it is not a stranger. (not that I think they really have a clue what is going on, so that does not mean much :( )

Barry
07-06-2010, 04:45 PM
I'll take a stab at the motivation aspect. This is assuming TH as the perp. In my mind, unless she's completely crazy, the idea of hiring a hitman to kill Kaine, and doing harm to Kyron, are kind of a psychological counter-poise to each other. The mental reasons and mindset for doing one or the other seem quite different to me. Now, if you view it as a cold, calculating person searching for a way to make money, it seems to make more sense. Being driven by money, both things seem clearer, IMO.

So, for motivation, I would go for that age old adage: "follow the money".

Sorry, it's all I got so far in this very confusing mess.

Faulkner
07-06-2010, 04:56 PM
I'll take a stab at the motivation aspect. This is assuming TH as the perp. In my mind, unless she's completely crazy, the idea of hiring a hitman to kill Kaine, and doing harm to Kyron, are kind of a psychological counter-poise to each other. The mental reasons and mindset for doing one or the other seem quite different to me. Now, if you view it as a cold, calculating person searching for a way to make money, it seems to make more sense. Being driven by money, both things seem clearer, IMO.

So, for motivation, I would go for that age old adage: "follow the money".

Sorry, it's all I got so far in this very confusing mess.

I've been trying to reconcile those two, too, Barry. And does it strike you then, that a death of a grief stricken Kaine through an apparent heart attack or suicide - as some have suggested - might have been still to come in terms of the second shoe to drop? Because, without that second shoe dropping, any potential financial payoff resulting from Kyron's disappearance would seem to be in Kaine's control. And he seems to be a guy who likes control, IMO, and wouldn't necessarily loosen those purse strings too readily for his wife.

PortlandMama
07-06-2010, 04:56 PM
BBM - I wanted to post this observation earlier, but it didn't seem appropriate.

However, in light of recent news (divorce, RO, alleged murder-for-hire), I think that her RECENT weight change could have something to do with poor Kyron's disappearance.

My theory isn't much different than most on this thread, but I do think that there is something to her WEIGHT GAIN.

I noticed immediately that pictures with her right after Baby K. was born, she was still quite fit. From the pictures, she didn't let herself get out of shape until quite recently.

Passionflower's quote above was posted on the thread about TMH's DUI, and wonders if drinking (IMO recent, heavy drinking, if so) could play a role... I would add to that the many prescription meds (esp for mood disorders) that cause you to put on weight rapidly.

Some of these meds have been alleged to cause suicidal thoughts/actions, and unfortunately I know from experience how some can react "badly" (to put it mildly) with certain personality types...

That being said, my theory is not that TMH has mental issues (indeed she may have) but that a particular combo of prescription meds and/or drinking and/or drugs could very well have helped move TMH into action.:waitasec:

That's all I have so far.:blushing:

I just want to interject that, while her recent weight gain might indicate stress or depression, it could also be that she's simply in the bulking phase of her bodybuilding training. I used to know a couple of male competitive bodybuilders and they would eat massive amounts of food and lift very heavy weights to bulk up (putting on a lot of muscle and fat), then go on an intense diet and up the cardio in the weeks immediately before the competition to shed the fat, leaving just the extra muscle. Hard on the body, I'm sure, but it's done. Just a thought.

sarah7855
07-06-2010, 05:01 PM
While I do think that money is a big motivating factor here, I think it is more of an afterthought, but not the main reason that Terri (allegedly) wanted Kaine dead. I think it is more of "and as a plus, not only will that cheating SOB and his son be gone, I'll also have his money to live off of!" type thing. Hell hath no fury like a woman scored, period. It has come out via the landscaper that Kaine "hurt" Terri by having an affair. (sideline-I've read reports today that the affair was possibly with a co-worker, can someone be so kind as to point me in the direction of that info please?) Either way, I think that this alleged affair was the reason for Terri wanting to hurt Kaine, to get back at him. Maybe she tried to accomplish this by having an affair of her own. Would explain how she felt comfortable enough to proposition Landscaper Guy to murder her husband...he was the other party in said affair. I can envision Terri thinking that this affair would make Kaine wake up and realize what he has, so to speak, and patch everything back up with them. It didn't work, driving a wedge deeper between them. Terri then gets desperate and goes to her last resort-hitting Kaine where it really hurts: Kyron. I don't have a theory of "how" she did it, but there's my theory of why. Remember, these two got together before the dust had settled between he and Desiree. It's a fact that relationships that form from two people who are either in relationships at the time of them getting together or very soon after often have trust issues within them. And above all else, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. :twocents:

just
07-06-2010, 06:45 PM
BBM - I wanted to post this observation earlier, but it didn't seem appropriate.

However, in light of recent news (divorce, RO, alleged murder-for-hire), I think that her RECENT weight change could have something to do with poor Kyron's disappearance.

My theory isn't much different than most on this thread, but I do think that there is something to her WEIGHT GAIN.

I noticed immediately that pictures with her right after Baby K. was born, she was still quite fit. From the pictures, she didn't let herself get out of shape until quite recently.

Passionflower's quote above was posted on the thread about TMH's DUI, and wonders if drinking (IMO recent, heavy drinking, if so) could play a role... I would add to that the many prescription meds (esp for mood disorders) that cause you to put on weight rapidly.

Some of these meds have been alleged to cause suicidal thoughts/actions, and unfortunately I know from experience how some can react "badly" (to put it mildly) with certain personality types...

That being said, my theory is not that TMH has mental issues (indeed she may have) but that a particular combo of prescription meds and/or drinking and/or drugs could very well have helped move TMH into action.:waitasec:

That's all I have so far.:blushing:

I agree that her appearance changing so drastically is very important. Now, she may be purposely looking glum and uncared for because she doesn't want to call attention to herself. I remember seeing Ward Weaver walking out of the courtroom after he had been convicted and he looked so down and dejected and pitiful - which is what sociopaths do - they rely on pity.

But...she does have the look to me of dementia or paranoia? I do think though that the news would be all over this like white on rice, saying you know her remarks were all over the place, she couldn't focus, blah blah.

I do absolutely think rage and obsession got the best of her and with the right medications she may in fact 'realize' what she's done. Or, she could just be your typical sociopath always looking out for #1.

just
07-06-2010, 07:10 PM
Quick question: Do we have pictures of the parking lot at the school? The reason I'm asking is that I live close by and unless you all think it would be disrespectful, maybe I could go take pictures of them? I was thinking of my daughter's school (nearby) and there are two parking lots, one in back and front (like this school seems to have) but what you can't see from the aerial shots is that at her school, the lot in the back has no windows facing out to it, and...there are 2 doors leading out there. Most parents park in front where the classroom windows face out, but that back one, which is right next to the building, just doesn't have those windows in that direction.

I wonder if this school is the same? I'll go try to look for pics of the school but if you guys have a link, will you let me know? That would make her telling K to meet her at a certain exit very plausible.

mtnone
07-06-2010, 07:29 PM
For today I will go with:

Terri gets to know Landscaper guy at the school projects. Maybe they have an affair, maybe not. Maybe she talks to him about offing Kaine, maybe not. I would think that LE has more than just his word to impress the judge with for the RO. But, I wouldn't think they were so desperate to try to set her up on that Saturday either, so maybe they don't have more. That was not an impressive move.

Kaine is not dead. So maybe that never happened, maybe it was just talk. The flirting or relationship ends. Landscape guy is not a happy camper. Maybe even a looney tune.

In May he tries to do something to Terri that prompts her to call the police on the incident. But, nothing happens.

He gets Kyron out of the school right after Terri leaves. He has met Kyron before, so Kyron knows him. Perhaps this is where the electric project young T. mentioned comes into play, if it does at all.

He takes Kyron away and does whatever out of anger at Terri. Or he passes him off to another person to do whatever.

When he is contacted by LE in the course of this investigation, or after being mentioned to them by Terri, he tells the hire for kill story to get back at her some more, or because it was true.

Terri doesn't know where Kyron is or what happened to him. She is guilty of maybe an affair, maybe the plot, or maybe just being a very guilty looking person during the PC.

If not this then I will lean towards the theory Cash posted above. But, if they were so desperate to set her up just recently, I say they have nothing on her but suspicions, and that doesn't bode well for this case.

cluciano63
07-06-2010, 07:42 PM
My theory is that no one passed Kyron off to anyone else. This to me indicates too many people that are willing to become involved in this type of a felony. It is hard enough for me to wrap my brain about one person being willing (the instigator) let alone others to "pass him off to." I am just not getting that.

And I am not responding to anyone in particular, I just keep readng that phrase, as though it is the most normal thing in the world, when it is the most abnormal.

Cheewawa007
07-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Jessigirl & Mrs G Norris, you both get my vote!!! If I were a fence sitter, you knocked my big fat arce off with your theories that's fo' sho'! And I was doing quite a balancing act - a cheek on each side *wink*!

loves2bmom
07-06-2010, 08:16 PM
Quick question: Do we have pictures of the parking lot at the school? The reason I'm asking is that I live close by and unless you all think it would be disrespectful, maybe I could go take pictures of them? I was thinking of my daughter's school (nearby) and there are two parking lots, one in back and front (like this school seems to have) but what you can't see from the aerial shots is that at her school, the lot in the back has no windows facing out to it, and...there are 2 doors leading out there. Most parents park in front where the classroom windows face out, but that back one, which is right next to the building, just doesn't have those windows in that direction.

I wonder if this school is the same? I'll go try to look for pics of the school but if you guys have a link, will you let me know? That would make her telling K to meet her at a certain exit very plausible.

Hi neighbor...I'm local too. Another poster, Gwenabob took many pictures of the school including the parking lot. The back of the school has been a subject discussed by many on how the back door leads to an area that would not be seen. It's definitely a possibility of how (anyone) could have gotten him out easily.

Here's Gwenabob's photo album of the school:
http://s780.photobucket.com/albums/yy81/gwenabob/Skyline%20School/

Curious Me
07-06-2010, 08:17 PM
Sorry- had to move my previous post to a new thread.

My theory....SM is involved somehow. She has to be. Why would she do something to KH? I for one can not imagine being angry enough at someone I was in a state of mind to try to harm them or consider it. So- I would think motive is pure anger- maybe rage- kids often see the brunt of that in abuse situations...so why would it be different in this case?

I had considered before there was an affair playing a part in this somewhere...maybe revenge. Maybe something like she was so unhappy she wanted to get back at KH so do something to something very important...like a kid?
Heck I do not know...gives me the ebbie jeebies just trying to wrap my mind around the "why". Ewwww.

BBM At first I totally misread your post. I thought you meant Kaine's affair produced a pregnancy, but I don't think you meant that.

Well, I never considered how involved the affair could have been, but I would think that was when TH got seething mad. It could be the thing that set this in motion for sure if his lover was having/had his baby. Just the fact that he was probably having an affair with someone at work at around the time of pregnancy and early motherhood is enough to set some revenge in motion. This is a theories thread so it's good to see people stretching their imagination to explain what the conditions of the home life were like for little Kyron. He seemed to have been caught in the middle of some nasty emotions between his parents, but he sure looked happy and well cared for in all the pics. Can not imagine harming that little boy. How mad was TH, I wonder.

Ladybulldog
07-06-2010, 09:32 PM
I know this won't be a popular theory but here is mine. My theory is Kaine has planned this all along. Given past history with his first wife(divorce and RO) and being the type to control everything around him(including his checkbook). Sending her son off to his Grandparents before the landscaper came into the picture. I'm sure the landscaper will get a nice little payment when the dust settles down after he was used as a scapegoat. (He said/She said).No crime has been committed on his part (except withholding information several months ago?) There is speculation of an affair with a female ex-employee. I'm sure Desiree can relate to this and so can Terri as well. I wonder if Kaine and his daughter will be relocating out of the country after this and reuniting with Kyron. While Terri sits in jail trying to prove her innocence. Just one of my working theories at the moment.

gwenabob
07-06-2010, 09:47 PM
I know this won't be a popular theory but here is mine. My theory is Kaine has planned this all along. Given past history with his first wife(divorce and RO) and being the type to control everything around him(including his checkbook). Sending her son off to his Grandparents before the landscaper came into the picture. I'm sure the landscaper will get a nice little payment when the dust settles down after he was used as a scapegoat. (He said/She said).No crime has been committed on his part (except withholding information several months ago?) There is speculation of an affair with a female ex-employee. I'm sure Desiree can relate to this and so can Terri as well. I wonder if Kaine and his daughter will be relocating out of the country after this and reuniting with Kyron. While Terri sits in jail trying to prove her innocence. Just one of my working theories at the moment.

I have read nothing anywhere except for supposition here that Kaine was a tightwad and cheapskate. He bought a fancy sports car for his wife for Mother's Day. I got a box of chocolates.

It might be true that he is controlling with money. It might also be true that Terri spends money in an irresponsible way. And neither might be true. Just thought I would throw that out.

PorcineGranny
07-06-2010, 09:52 PM
I haven't seen anyone bring this over from the astrology thread, but I'm thinking Terry and Kaine had some "undesireable" friends and maybe while Kaine was at work, Terry was in touch with them. Unknowingly by her, they were interested in Kyron. They may have groomed Kyron. He would recognize them, go with them,remember in the astrology thread it says she doesn't know she has the information to find him. Just speculating. I find it so hard to think she could in any way jeopardize the life of this little boy she had practically raised. I couldn't even plan a dog's demise I had raised.

JBean
07-06-2010, 10:42 PM
emma I hope you don;t mind but I am going to change the title of this thread to Connect the dots.

ClueMeIn
07-06-2010, 10:58 PM
When I read the June 16th date on this, and the title, I thought it was really eerie!

I think I need to take a break for a bit.

AndThenThereWereNone
07-07-2010, 12:00 AM
First time poster with idea--don't know if this has been discussed before. But what about (someone) taking Kyron and leaving him at an apiary on Sauvie Island knowing (or hoping) that he would be stung.

CSI Season 4, Episode 11--death by bee sting

wondering1
07-07-2010, 12:04 AM
I have read nothing anywhere except for supposition here that Kaine was a tightwad and cheapskate. He bought a fancy sports car for his wife for Mother's Day. I got a box of chocolates.

It might be true that he is controlling with money. It might also be true that Terri spends money in an irresponsible way. And neither might be true. Just thought I would throw that out.

I know, they got married at Princeville for heaven's sake. Maybe that tide turned recently -- due to his new attitude, or the economy, or major debt, or or or

jmo

denkster69
07-07-2010, 12:10 AM
I have been reading through the news blogs & several people are saying this is Terrie & if so....I believe them to be correct. If I was NOT ALLOWED to post this please remove for me, I am a new AT POSTING.
http://www.kgw.com/news/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html?commentPage=4#comments

awaitingjustice said on July 5, 2010 at 10:00 AM

eyes4crime
07-07-2010, 12:12 AM
First time poster with idea--don't know if this has been discussed before. But what about (someone) taking Kyron and leaving him at an apiary on Sauvie
Island knowing (or hoping) that he would be stung.

CSI Season 4, Episode 11--death by bee sting

Hi and welcome to WS - home of great sleuthing! Gosh, I would hope she isn't that sadistic, but a very interesting idea. moo

dartemis
07-07-2010, 12:17 AM
My theory is that she got rid of Kyron by selling him somewhere outside of the U.S. She wanted money and she wanted to hurt Kaine badly. She also wanted her life back and her little girl all to herself with the money to support a nice lifestyle. I also think she followed the Madeleine McCann story and realized she could make money if Kyron went missing. I think she is trying to do that right now through her attorney, isn't she? Here's what has to happen...LE must find a reason to arrest her. Only under arrest will they have the leverage to make her talk. She has no reason to while she is free...what does she have to gain? But, if she is under arrest, she has everything to lose and LE can try to cut deals with her regarding time with her daughter, a shorter sentence, etc. If, however, she still fails to talk while under arrest, then we will know that Kyron is dead because admitting that couldn't help her in any way. She is just as cagey as Casey Anthony in that regard. Everything is a gain/loss, "what's in it for Me" decision with her. There is no room for sentiment or morality in that kind of mind set.

mrsjonnob
07-07-2010, 12:38 AM
First time poster with idea--don't know if this has been discussed before. But what about (someone) taking Kyron and leaving him at an apiary on Sauvie Island knowing (or hoping) that he would be stung.

CSI Season 4, Episode 11--death by bee sting

Hmmm, that is something to ponder for sure.

captivagrl
07-07-2010, 12:49 AM
I think they may be tempting TH to talk (after watching the presser). Everyone else is being heard. They have the spotlight. She's stuck in silence. People are calling her fat, child killer, pathological liar, greedy, contract killer, cheater, slut, drunk driver.....I'm SURE she wants her side heard. I can see her being jealous of the attention the other parents are getting. I hope she opens her lying mouth and implicates herself. Her lawyer better have some one minding her 24/7, and I don't mean her parents. LE connected the dots long ago but proof is what they need. IMO

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 12:50 AM
oh dear, the kdrv interview is very touching and open...and Desiree did admit that she is saying Kyron alive because she is a mother, basically and not for any factual reason...it is very sad...and she is very composed and classy and yet very, very firm about how she feels about Terri these days...
she also repeats that she did not meet Terri until Kyron was 1.5 yrs old...does not say circumstances.

sorry to post this here...

she also talks about how involved she is on a day-to-day basis in Kyron's life, traveling to Portland all the time for events, etc...

again sorry if wrong place to post all this, the other thread is closed...if you did not yet listen to this interview, please do...

kathryann
07-07-2010, 12:57 AM
I think this was a well-thought-out kidnap plan by TH with an accomplice. She was stuck at home raising Kaine's child and he was having an affair. I think whomever has Kyron is waiting for money, or has a criminal past and is afraid to come forward. She set it up to be seen at the school that morning and then passed him off to someone else. She wanted Kaine to hurt as much as she was hurting, and the best way to do that was get rid of his son. I don't really think that she hurt Kyron because obviously she tried to hire "someone" else to kill her husband, so I'm assuming she hired someone else to do this. I personally think that Kyron is still alive somewhere, and I'm praying that he is. Poor little guy.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 01:01 AM
But Kathyryann, why aren't they reaching out to the "accomplice" then? Asking this person to release Kyron anonymously even?
That is the person who Desiree and LE need to touch, not Terri, she won't help them. If there is a person, they may be looking for a way out...that is why I'm not seeing this, among other reasons, mainly that it is so unlikely to me that anyone would do THIS for her, that I can't find a way to believe this...

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 01:17 AM
I would be shocked (well, startled anyway) if she is still posting under assumed names now that it is clear that the news stations can tell who is posting. I know she is not Einstein, but she has to know that this would not be helpful. The posters on the boards tend to accuse anyone who tries to defend Terri in the slightest way of being Terri. It gets pretty comical and inane. I've seen this on every board and on FB for Kyron as well. Even if someone just indicates that perhaps Terri should get a trial first. :(

Reality Orlando
07-07-2010, 01:20 AM
I checked this out with the mods and can now post on this subject:

I have been wondering for some time about TH's body building. She gets pretty massive if you've seen the pics from her past competitions. I wonder if she's been taking steroids to bulk up. Women taking male hormones can experience all types of mental disorders including "severe depression to the other extreme of anxiety, power, invincibility, racing thoughts and recklessness." Many women become violent and experience the same "roid rage" as documented men. The link below explains many of the personality changes that can occur with continued steroid use. Don't get me wrong, I'm not posting this to excuse her behavior. But it does seem, if the allegations being made in the press are true, there was a shift in her behavior shortly after the birth of her daughter...possibly negative self image from weight gain during pregnancy which prompted her to begin using steroids to quickly get back in shape.

Anecdotal reports of aggression have been reported with almost each type of anabolic steroid. In most cases, the aggression has been reported after usage of high doses of steroids. Besides aggression, other central nervous system symptoms include extreme irritability, wide mood swings (depression to anxiety), both verbal and physical violence and paranoia. In most cases, the paranoia has been persecutory and all individuals become hypervigilant. Hostility towards colleagues, family members and friends has been widely reported among users of anabolic steroids.

http://www.steroidsrx.com/Articles/Anabolic_Steroids_Psychosis.cfm

WholeLottaRosie
07-07-2010, 01:21 AM
I know this won't be a popular theory but here is mine. My theory is Kaine has planned this all along. Given past history with his first wife(divorce and RO) and being the type to control everything around him(including his checkbook). Sending her son off to his Grandparents before the landscaper came into the picture. I'm sure the landscaper will get a nice little payment when the dust settles down after he was used as a scapegoat. (He said/She said).No crime has been committed on his part (except withholding information several months ago?) There is speculation of an affair with a female ex-employee. I'm sure Desiree can relate to this and so can Terri as well. I wonder if Kaine and his daughter will be relocating out of the country after this and reuniting with Kyron. While Terri sits in jail trying to prove her innocence. Just one of my working theories at the moment.

This is so very close to my main, I am just going to repeat yours!

Thanks!

eyes4crime
07-07-2010, 01:25 AM
So few facts, I'll try connecting the dots based mostly on assumptions and gossip, not yet known to be fact. Since LE eyes are on Terri, and have been since the beginning, along with Deserie, Tony, and Kaine, it's worth connecting the dots to see what gives.

Unfortunately, I can connect most of the dots using Terri, a child predator, or a set-up scenario. moo

For me, there's not enough evidence to call anyone guilty and I'm surprised by the unidirectional conviction of Terri. I sure as heck don't have enough information to make a 'guilty' verdict - so here is attempt to connect some dots..

Motive: Revenge! Terri was unsuccessful in getting rid of a husband she despised, but will hurt him by hurting his biological child. She feels unappreciated, trapped, and used with much time wasted. Seems Terri is too narcissistic and impatient for a divorce to take place. moo

Opportunity: Let's say Terri left right after taking Kyron's picture, about 8:15 or so. Terri was home at 2:00p when Kaine returned home from work. I feel baby girl was with a babysitter. That leaves over 5 hours for Terri to do her damage with Kyron.

Means: I have no idea.

Assumptions:

...Terri looked into a murder for hire to hit on her husband, Kaine.
...Terri's teenage son moved in with grandparents due to his inability to get along with Kaine.
...The murder for hire plot resulted in Kaine taking baby girl to an unknown destination.
...Terri used the white truck the morning of the science fair.

More assumptions:

...Kyron's project was set up the prior afternoon or evening (Thursday).
...Terri was carrying a gym bag with a light rain coat/hat/umbrella, much like the kind she would wear at one of Kyron's soccer games.
...Terri was familiar with where the teachers usually parked on days the school held activities for the public. She may have been familiar with what teacher drove what car?
...Terri parked a distance from the familiar cars teachers drove.

More of my assumptions:
Kyron's friend was mistaken about seeing Kyorn at 8:45am. I'm thinking the electricity project was mentioned in a prior conversation - the evening before?

Connecting assumptions with dots:
...Terri and Kyron walked into the school at 8:00am or very close to it.
...They visited the science project and a picture of Kyron was taken. Terri and Kyron were seen by the President of the PTA as Terri expected.
...After about 5 minutes, Terri and Kyron headed toward an exit.
...Terri pulled out her light rain gear and hat, put it around her and Kyron. Terri tucked her hair under the hat. (it was lightly raining).
...Covered by the rain coat, hat, and maybe umbrella, she and Kyron walked briskly to the truck.
My mind can't go into what may have happened to Kyron after getting into the truck. Terri doesn't seem worried about a body being found, so whatever happened, she was careful to make sure he wouldn't be found.

On the other hand:
A child predator could have taken similar steps - they work very fast. Children have been taken out of their bedrooms, living rooms, and yards. Taking a child from school would not be a big problem for a child predator.

I'll try again in another couple days. all just my opinions and assumptions. Not much fact here to work with. :eek:

Emma Peel
07-07-2010, 01:26 AM
LOL @ the re-naming of the thread. Nice. :D

grandmaj
07-07-2010, 01:34 AM
For the time being, unless we are absolutely sure a blog post is Terri's it is rumor to bring it here. We can't be accusing her of being multiple names without having some proof that it is her.

Thanks for your help. Ask a mod if you aren't sure.

Rumors can really cloud our thinking and sleuthing. So if we can do our best to eliminate rumor and go on fact, it gets us further in our sleuthing.

Thanks Peeps.

:grouphug:

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 01:38 AM
Rather than steriods, the way she looks now reminds me of the puffiness and weight gain associated with many antidepressants and anxiety meds, as others have mentioned in one thread or another. And some of those drugs can even lead to violent thoughts, though usually with younger people, but could have affected her that way. There is no indication that she had anger/violence issues in the past and steriods should be out of her body by now, if she was taking them back then. I would be wondering more about prescription drugs...I had to take one of those for a while once and stopped when the pounds came piling on amazingly fast, and I started to look like...well, like Terri.

captivagrl
07-07-2010, 01:46 AM
Rather than steriods, the way she looks now reminds me of the puffiness and weight gain associated with many antidepressants and anxiety meds, as others have mentioned in one thread or another. And some of those drugs can even lead to violent thoughts, though usually with younger people, but could have affected her that way. There is no indication that she had anger/violence issues in the past and steriods should be out of her body by now, if she was taking them back then. I would be wondering more about prescription drugs...I had to take one of those for a while once and stopped when the pounds came piling on amazingly fast, and I started to look like...well, like Terri.

Alcohol does that too. I agree it's drug/alcohol bloat.

Mylou
07-07-2010, 01:52 AM
My theory at the moment of connecting the dots is

No..comment.......No..Comment..................... NO..COMMENT!

Reality Orlando
07-07-2010, 02:01 AM
Rather than steriods, the way she looks now reminds me of the puffiness and weight gain associated with many antidepressants and anxiety meds, as others have mentioned in one thread or another. And some of those drugs can even lead to violent thoughts, though usually with younger people, but could have affected her that way. There is no indication that she had anger/violence issues in the past and steriods should be out of her body by now, if she was taking them back then. I would be wondering more about prescription drugs...I had to take one of those for a while once and stopped when the pounds came piling on amazingly fast, and I started to look like...well, like Terri.

It could be any type of meds, I agree, but I had read somewhere that she was getting ready for a body building competition soon, so she'd probably be hitting lots of carbs to build muscle. Often, you'll gain weight from the additional calories before the muscle builds.

eyes4crime
07-07-2010, 02:29 AM
Rather than steriods, the way she looks now reminds me of the puffiness and weight gain associated with many antidepressants and anxiety meds, as others have mentioned in one thread or another. And some of those drugs can even lead to violent thoughts, though usually with younger people, but could have affected her that way. There is no indication that she had anger/violence issues in the past and steriods should be out of her body by now, if she was taking them back then. I would be wondering more about prescription drugs...I had to take one of those for a while once and stopped when the pounds came piling on amazingly fast, and I started to look like...well, like Terri.

Good point! She does look puffy. I thought of medication because there are so many that can cause weight gain and puffiness. I also thought of female hormones, we don't know if she had trouble during pregnancy and/or delivery. Maybe early menopause where female hormones might be prescribed. Could be so many things. No doubt about it - she sure does look different. moo

WholeLottaRosie
07-07-2010, 03:57 AM
Rather than steriods, the way she looks now reminds me of the puffiness and weight gain associated with many antidepressants and anxiety meds, as others have mentioned in one thread or another. And some of those drugs can even lead to violent thoughts, though usually with younger people, but could have affected her that way. There is no indication that she had anger/violence issues in the past and steriods should be out of her body by now, if she was taking them back then. I would be wondering more about prescription drugs...I had to take one of those for a while once and stopped when the pounds came piling on amazingly fast, and I started to look like...well, like Terri.


Or prednisone. This is also a kind of steriod, I believe, although for asthma and various other problems.

21merc7
07-07-2010, 04:58 AM
I know this won't be a popular theory but here is mine. My theory is Kaine has planned this all along. Given past history with his first wife(divorce and RO) and being the type to control everything around him(including his checkbook). Sending her son off to his Grandparents before the landscaper came into the picture. I'm sure the landscaper will get a nice little payment when the dust settles down after he was used as a scapegoat. (He said/She said).No crime has been committed on his part (except withholding information several months ago?) There is speculation of an affair with a female ex-employee. I'm sure Desiree can relate to this and so can Terri as well. I wonder if Kaine and his daughter will be relocating out of the country after this and reuniting with Kyron. While Terri sits in jail trying to prove her innocence. Just one of my working theories at the moment.

This is one of mine. Heck, even birth mom could have just wanted Kyron back. Or a stranger lured him away. Everything is just so hinky. I really don't think Terri knows anything about what happened to Kyron. I could be wrong, but the hink is too high here.

froginTtown
07-07-2010, 06:22 AM
Just another thought/opinion to add... I really think this landscaper is in LEs radar.... Surely, he is not just volunteering this info now out of the kindness of his heart... I would think he would have left the day Terri asked him to kill her husband.. I would have. Not to mention going to LE... I really don't feel this info came out voluntarly (sp).. I think it was a tip ... JMO/MOO..

I also truely pray that they polygraphed the landscaper before they did the sting... I hope the LE pretty much have this case wrapped up, because Terri won't be talking now.. She lawyer up after that sting... I almost feel like that was too huge of a gamble to even try...

I feel that they put way too much pressure on her to the point that she clammed up... I pray they already had the case solved before the sting... :praying:

stmarysmead
07-07-2010, 07:09 AM
I'm wondering if Terri and Kyron left the science fair and went to Sauvie Island to get something for the science project...more tree frogs...who knows. A remote part of the island is what I'm picturing.

Once there, something he does or doesn't do...enrages her. She take his glasses and leaves him there to punish him.

The parents said in an interview that losing his glasses and not being able to find his way is Kyron's greatest fear. Terri knows this too. Maybe this starts out as rage and a punishment.

The parents also said in that interview that there was some issue at school about listening to adults, doing what he was told.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rx3YHyQrM8&feature=player_embedded

Both statements about the fear and the obedience issue are here.

She may have even planned to go back after she's scared him and punished him enough. "If you don't listen to me, this is what's going to happen."

Maybe she even returned, but then, she can't find him.

How does she call for help or tell Kaine? She has endangered a child. This is all her fault. She finally goes home and decides to play a role.

She can't help now because she doesn't know where he is out there or what exactly happened.

I think this woman has been dealing with rage issues for a long while. The whole "hit man" thing may be conversations that took place during outbursts of rage.

adh74
07-07-2010, 11:49 AM
I haven't been able to read ALL of the posts in the multiple threads about the landscaper/hitman posts. Nor have I read all the posts in this thread yet. But I think I have enough info to get a decent theory going. So here it goes:

I believe that:

TH older son and KH were not getting along.
The older son was sent to live elsewhere.
Terri resented this. A LOT.
Terri schemed up a plot to put a hit on KH. (The landscaper we all know about now is just one of the potential hitman. He didn't take her up on the deal, but she eventually found someone who would.) This would serve two purposes: revenge and life insurance money (working for Intel and making $80-100k/yr, I feel secure in thinking that he probably had pretty decent life insurance)
Who are the beneficiaries of the life insurance? Well, her and the children of course.
Problem #1: If KH is killed, Kyron and his portion of the LI$ goes to DY. This cannot be.
Problem #2: How to pay said hitman?
Solution to Problems 1 & 2: Sell Kyron. This serves 2 purposes: Kyron is no longer around to take any part of the LI$. And TH can use the proceeds of the sale to pay the hitman on KH.
So....who to sell Kyron to? Hmmm...perhaps her brother-in-law (a convicted SO) might know someone who would find an 8yo boy useful? Perhaps they may also know a good hitman?
So, TH finds a buyer for Kyron. This is where I have two ideas of what happened next:
A) Kyron left with TH and she took him to SI to hand him off to his new owner
B) TH strategically manipulated Kyron into a location where his new owner could nab him (possibly silence him with duct tape or a nice smack to the head) and stuff him into a trash can or storage container of some sort) and go one way with Kyron while TH went another way so she could be seen leaving without Kyron. In this scenario, perhaps they meet up at SI to exchange $$$ between the buyer-->TH and/or TH-->hitman.
TH goes about her day, eventually going home and posting pictures on FB and such.
KH and TH go to meet the school bus....Kyron isn't on it. Cops are called, everything becomes MUCH larger than she ever expected (I seriously doubt she ever thought there'd be national attention like this...definitely not part of her perfect plan). Now she's screwed.


ETA: I think the renewed vibe that Kyron might still be alive is that they are trying to track down whoever TH sold Kyron to (and the BIL/SO may be helping in that process, his motivation being some leniency on his own current legal issues).

prettyinpink
07-07-2010, 12:56 PM
I am thinking in two different directions. Who leapt at the chance to take advantage of the science fair? This is a crime where the opportunity came up, and someone took the chance, but who?

One: Kyron never left school. Someone had noticed Kyron, and was waiting for him to separate from Terri. This person would have had to been involved with the school somehow, to know about the science fair. It would only take a little bit to tell him "Hey, there is a cool electricity exhibit!" to lure him away. Wherever Terri was that morning, was related to dropping off her young daughter, to focus on the science fair with Kyron.

I know, this may not be likely, considering what we have learned about Terri, which leads to my next theory.

Two: Terri was behind this. She knew she had to act the day of the science fair, or lose the chance.


If the hit on Kaine went through, where would that leave things as far as Kyron goes?

defender123
07-07-2010, 01:05 PM
What if TH really loved Kyron, and during a heated spat Kaine made it very clear she would never get him if they divorced. Well she sure showed him!!!! She could very well have stashed him..Emails and cell phone would confirm whom she had contact with in the last few months.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 01:17 PM
I think the LE has looked at Terri's phone and computer weeks ago. They have probably worked through just about everyone, if they got to the landscaper weeks ago, and from what I gather, he no longer worked for her?

So my theory is still that they have a theory but no proof and have pretty much extinguished the idea that she "had help" from anyone in her address books. And are just trying to figure out a way that it would be advantageous for her to talk, without having to give her too much in the way of leniency.

liz b.
07-07-2010, 02:42 PM
With regard to my feeling that someone lured Kyron : there are very few secrets in small communities. It is quite possible that the person responsible knew a great deal about TH and KH. Predator pedophiles use family strife to their advantage ; either to befriend and groom a would be victim, or to make a child feel that their parents are too "preoccupied " to care for them... A ruse to get the child to trust the pedophile...

Even though this is labeled a "connect the dots " theory thread,IMO it's important to acknowledge that we do not actually have all of the dots. Or even most of the dots. Probably we know very little of the truth. At this time,IMO, one theory is every bit as valid as another one.... Until we get a confession,a plea, or even an arrest....

All JMO

Curious Me
07-07-2010, 04:06 PM
You'd think if you wanted your husband dead, and were willing to start off by selling/killing the child first, that TH could've devised a much better plan where she planned one of those accidents that would kill both hubbie and Kyron at same time.

I don't know what dots to connect. TH must've been thinking very fuzzy to plan this particular scenerio. I have my doubts about the dots.

Donjeta
07-07-2010, 04:36 PM
I would prefer a thread for theories that don't work, because I only have those...

I don't think it's about money. The hit on Kaine might have been (if true) but I doubt she's getting anything out of Kyron's disappearance. Any donations probably wouldn't come to a stepmother but his biological parents. If he was eliminated her daughter would inherit more after K's death (unless he has made a will) but I think he might still inherit unless he is found deceased or declared legally dead, and that might take time. I don't know the Oregon law regarding missing persons.

Hatred of KH maybe... Make him suffer... It would cover both the hit and doing something to Kyron.

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 04:43 PM
You'd think if you wanted your husband dead, and were willing to start off by selling/killing the child first, that TH could've devised a much better plan where she planned one of those accidents that would kill both hubbie and Kyron at same time.

I don't know what dots to connect. TH must've been thinking very fuzzy to plan this particular scenerio. I have my doubts about the dots.
The dots are not connecting.

Donjeta
07-07-2010, 04:44 PM
You'd think if you wanted your husband dead, and were willing to start off by selling/killing the child first, that TH could've devised a much better plan where she planned one of those accidents that would kill both hubbie and Kyron at same time.

I don't know what dots to connect. TH must've been thinking very fuzzy to plan this particular scenerio. I have my doubts about the dots.

I'm not certain about Oregon law but I think killing two people at the same time might be risky moneywise because if by any chance the father dies first and it can be determined that his son survived him, even if he dies later of his injuries, it might be that the son inherits his father and later his mother inherits the money from him.

Selling a child wouldn't work if it's about inheritance or insurance money because it may take ages to declare him dead. Not good for fast cash.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 04:49 PM
I am thinking that Tony Y. probably would not have said what he said, if he did not have more than we know, about dots, etc...

At least, I am thinking that sometimes, but other times, I am thinking that everyone involved (family & LE) are pretty convinced that Terri is guilty and therefore see everything that is coming out as further pointing to her guilt. It goes back to when facts/theories tend to confirm what you already believe, then you are more likely to accept them as true.

But my theory remains that someone took Kyron out of school and LE thinks it was Terri but can't prove it. And that is all.

Morag
07-07-2010, 06:01 PM
Although the camera can lie, we've all seen those happy family holiday pictures. The Horman family at Hallowe'en and at Christmas did indeed seem happy, genuinely radiant smiles from the kids, mellow-looking dad, pretty and proud stepmom. Yet one month later, the teenager is sent away and the alleged MFH plot is hatched. Five months later, the little boy has disappeared, the dad looks cold and detached, and the stepmom looks like a different person.

What did the dad do to make his wife wish him dead (if that's what happened)? Why did the stepmom turn into the kind of person of whom people are willing to believe the worst? And where is the dear little child?

Although Kaine and Terri's beginnings were not very nice, if she was indeed on the scene before his divorce, that's a very common situation. They seemed to have moved forward in a fairly straightforward and wholesome way. They lived together for several years before marriage, helped rear each other's kids, bought a house and moved to a new town, had an "ours" baby, the kids seemed to love their lives....until a few short months ago.

Have we seen any pics of Terri (or Kaine) which were taken after Christmas but before June 4? Even if she found out about an affair, that really doesn't seem to account for the changes in her appearance and demeanor or behaviour.

Call me puzzled.

ella971
07-07-2010, 06:07 PM
When you start any kind of puzzle your not sure if you can finish it.Connect the dot kind of puzzle is the kind we had when we started school. Very simple. I'm not saying anything other than that. Connect the dots. That was coming from LE (stepfather) Trust it and run with it. It may be frustrating but IMO I believe it to to be the truth.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 06:07 PM
To all people that knew us, we had the perfect family. Mom, dad, kids. Smiling photos. Dressed to the nines. Family vacations. Family all around, on both sides. Who woulda thunk that the wonderful father would try to kill me? Yep, it happens! Because of this he has no contact with me or the children. He got off on a domestic violence charge, because he had the bucks to hire a good attorney.

ella971
07-07-2010, 06:20 PM
To all people that knew us, we had the perfect family. Mom, dad, kids. Smiling photos. Dressed to the nines. Family vacations. Family all around, on both sides. Who woulda thunk that the wonderful father would try to kill me? Yep, it happens! Because of this he has no contact with me or the children. He got off on a domestic violence charge, because he had the bucks to hire a good attorney.

I believe you. I was a stepdaughter to a cop and my Mom worked for a judge and we looked normal and no one would believe how he was for years.They thought he was a great guy. I understand.

sorrell skye
07-07-2010, 06:24 PM
My theory is this is possibly an investigation based on confirmation bias rather than any actual evidence. IOW - it appears to be less of an evidence-driven investigation based on empirical data & more of a "she seems guilty, ergo, she must be" investigation, therefore "let's find something - anything - that confirms what we believe" (on LE's part).

Rather than following the evidence to the perp (if there even is any evidence to follow), it appears that LE is hoping to follow the unofficial POI to the evidence. Good luck with that.

Seems like a backwards method to crime investigation, if you ask me.

I admit TH looks guilty as sin, but I'm only on the outside looking in, trying to make sense of what little we know or think we know. Personally, I need more dots before I can connect them.

Also want to add that everyone's theories & ideas have given me food for thought. Thanks!

Curious Me
07-07-2010, 06:29 PM
I'm going to pray for more dots that lead to Kyron being found.

Calliope
07-07-2010, 06:30 PM
In changing the title of this thread to add 'Connect The Dots', does that mean only theories with Terri as the culprit are allowed?

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 06:39 PM
Nope, I believe that connect the dots means to connect the information that we are given. No adding in your own dots. ;)

nursebeeme
07-07-2010, 06:56 PM
here are my dots of interest:

1)in the fall of 2009 Terri Horman solicits a landscaper that she approaches about killing her husband. He allegedly had an affair. She has a past history of cheating on her first husband per WW fwiw.

2)spring of 2010 Terri sends her bio son away from his friends, his swim team, his band that he played trumpet in, to live with her parents. The bio dad of this child was quoted in the WW as saying that it was due to slipping grades and that he sometimes butted heads with Kaine but that he (the child could be stubborn) ******my interjection here is Terri was a teacher.. could she not have helped him out with his grades? why take this kid away from all of his high school friends????? the butting heads is common.. if I got a star for every time I butted heads with my parents during highschool I could fill the freaking universe!!!!!!! I think she sent him away for "other reasons' jmhoo"*****

3)intermittant terri comments under kyron pictures on her facebook: mods delete this part if you want.. but her captions under his pictures were cold, detached and sarcastic. One picture of him at the zoo with his head at the a$$ end of an animal she wrote the following: "this explains everything" sje also frequently put his entire name under any photo of him... "kyron horman" vs how she posted under her other children's pictures. I got a sense of detachment almost like she was posting a picture of another kid in her child's class that she wanted to make sure the parents got a copy of the photo. Problem is: she is the parent.

4)further facebook postings after kyron went missing. One friend told her, here is the poster I made of kyron, can you make it your photo? Did she? no. She 'liked' a bunch of things but she never once said a thing. Not one post. about him. She did post that she was hitting the gym.. and she did with her husband. She also posted, the day after he went missing, for people to not believe media reports.. even though there were hardly any at that time

5)Kyron's family finally attends a press conference and Terri has body language that is currently in question. I frankly have many questions of it and find it to be very confusing.

6)reports come out that Terri was not where she said she was and that she failed a polygraph. Searches are conducted on Sauvie Island allegedly as a result of this information

7)fliers come out to elicit further information from parents and kids at the school. Terri Horman's face and vehicle are on the flier as well as questions pertianing to anyone seeing her at the school that day at any time with kyron.

8)Terri is given a second polygraph

9)D and K give a statement sans Terri

10)K leaves the family home with baby K

11)there are two 911 calls to LE from Terri Horman. This may be related to an alleged sting to get her to admit on wire to her murder for hire plot with a landscaper. One pertains to a threat (landscaper wire sting?) and the latter to a custody issue (the fact that Kaine has taken off with her beloved daughter)

12)after the weekend one media outlet corners Terri and asks her if Kaine has moved out.. she says she must squelch all these reports, gives a thumbs up, and says all is wonderful in Horman land

13)later that same day she is served with not only divorce papers but a restraining order (family abuse prevention) from her daughter. She is, by some media outlets, reported as being surprised

14)some initial paperwork comes out to show that the RO had to do with family abuse prevention and it was SIGNED AND ORDERED BY A JUDGE. It was further sealed due to compromising Kyron's case

15)D, K, and D's husband make a taped media plea and question answering session to select media. THEY PLEAD FOR TERRI TO COOPERATE WITH LE. They shun some (ww, oregonian) who are up in arms. We find out Kaine was home that day in the morning and didn't get home until 2pm... when he found Terri at home on the computer.

16)reports leak out about the murder for hire plot to a landscaper hired, unbeknownst to Kaine, by Terri Horman in the fall of 2009. Terri has all of her parents living at the family home with her while the Kaine and her daughter are in an undisclosed location. She furthermore retains a highly prominent defense atty.

17)reports leak out that the 911 calls made by Terri horman were during the commission of a possible police sting to get Terri Horman to confess to this murder plot.. but it failed. In a pressor LE, when asked by media if Kyron was seen leaving the school, says, "NO COMMENT"

18)D and her husband issue another statement and plead with Terri Horman to cooperate with LE and bring Kyron home. THEY SAY SHE HAS NOT COOPERATED WITH LE SINCE SHE RETAINED HER DEFENSE ATTY.

19)the DA states that the restraining order info may be released on 8 July 2010 because all of the info contained within has already been leaked to the press.

-------------------------------------------

comment on my dots to be continued LOL

Calliope
07-07-2010, 06:59 PM
Nope, I believe that connect the dots means to connect the information that we are given. No adding in your own dots. ;)

If we're to only go on known fact, and not rumor through hearsay and third-hand unnamed 'sources', then there's really not much to go on.

We know Kyron was at school that morning.

We know Terri took him to school, and (according to LE) was the last known person to see him. [my question is are they discounting witnesses who saw him without Terri?]

We know Terri drove the family's truck that day, but no confirmation she used it to take him to school.

We know Kaine went to work before Kyron left for school, and returned home in the early afternoon. [we do not know what vehicle he drove]

We know Terri and baby were there when Kaine arrived home.

We know the three walked to the end of their drive to pick up Kyron from the bus, only to find out he was not on the bus.

Bus driver calls school secretary who says Kyron was absent from school [all day? part of the day?]

When Kaine sees that Kyron is not on the bus, he begins to walk back to the house, figuring that Kyron had been confused thinking he was to be picked up as he'd been dropped off that day. When he realizes Kyron was absent all day, he starts to run. [that got my hinky meter buzzing a bit]

What else do we know about that day? I just woke up, so I may have forgotten something.

We have the interview with his friend, T. I don't see the child making that up out of whole cloth; either the volunteer and teacher did discuss Kyron missing from the group or T was heavily coached. I saw nothing to make me believe that he was, but who knows. And if he was, why?

MimiWhatserface
07-07-2010, 07:00 PM
Sorry if If this has been said before but... Just wondering if the "connect the dots" phrase was maybe deeper meaning than we are thinking. Maybe it is Something like the Reporter referring to the landscaping then we all find out about the murder for hire situation. Maybe the "Dot" has a hidden message to tell someone that they are looking in a certain direction.

??

grayjay
07-07-2010, 08:51 PM
I wonder if the connect the dots comments was directed solely at TMH. It seems to be all about the pressure, and to me, I mean I just want to think, it's so that some action will take place and Kyron will be found. I don't think he cares what I think at all, or what dots I connect. Nurse, you sure made some excellent ones, though!

Haeve
07-07-2010, 09:02 PM
With regard to my feeling that someone lured Kyron : there are very few secrets in small communities. It is quite possible that the person responsible knew a great deal about TH and KH. Predator pedophiles use family strife to their advantage ; either to befriend and groom a would be victim, or to make a child feel that their parents are too "preoccupied " to care for them... A ruse to get the child to trust the pedophile...

Even though this is labeled a "connect the dots " theory thread,IMO it's important to acknowledge that we do not actually have all of the dots. Or even most of the dots. Probably we know very little of the truth. At this time,IMO, one theory is every bit as valid as another one.... Until we get a confession,a plea, or even an arrest....

All JMO

I think your theory is a good one, but I'm not sure this took place in a "small community", unless you mean the community of people who are connected to Skyline Elementary School through their children.

Could you elaborate on the community thing? I don't want to repeat myself re: what "rural" Portland means until I know what you meant.

Janeumayer
07-07-2010, 09:09 PM
I wonder if Terri had a hit man following K and her that day at the science fair. Once she left he took him.

JMO

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 09:14 PM
When I see the press conference from last night, I get a very clear impression from Tony Y. that he/they are connecting the dots to lead to Terri. Whether that is what he meant or not, seeing how the conference was basically about telling Terri to cooperate, using her daughter, etc...that is how I took it.

I would like to think that LE is fixated on Terri because, for any number of possible reasons, they have been unable to clear her/account for her time in a satisfactory manner for that day. I would be loathe to think that they seem to be fixated on her because the trail ends with her, with Kyron, inside the school, and she may have failed a LD or two. That hardly seems enough to generate this type of scrutiny, and I hope when they are looking at tips, they are looking at everything, even if it points away from Terri. We have all seen tunnel-vision with LE before and it is not unreasonable to question LE. It is our right.

I guess now that this case has stretched into week #5, I no longer have a theory. When I thought it must be Terri, I thought it would be quickly resolved, one way or the other. But now I just don't know. If the reason for the RO is due to the alleged murder-for-hire only (unknown as of now) then it does not really have to do with Kyron, necessarily. So if the other parents turned on her based on the plot, then they may have jumped to conclusions. It's possible. They may feel that, as many do, that if she could dream up a murder plot against Kaine, she could harm Kyron. I am not certain that the two go hand-in-hand at this point.

I won't post any more theories until we know more.

Beatrice
07-07-2010, 09:26 PM
I wonder if Terri had a hit man following K and her that day at the science fair. Once she left he took him.

JMO

I see the possibility of someone/accomplist hiding in a restroom.

Beatrice
07-07-2010, 09:40 PM
In my experience, "Connect the Dots" is usually followed by:

"Follow the money...Follow the "affair"

Haeve
07-07-2010, 09:51 PM
here are my dots of interest:
<snip>
2)spring of 2010 Terri sends her bio son away from his friends, his swim team, his band that he played trumpet in, to live with her parents. The bio dad of this child was quoted in the WW as saying that it was due to slipping grades and that he sometimes butted heads with Kaine but that he (the child could be stubborn) ******my interjection here is Terri was a teacher.. could she not have helped him out with his grades? why take this kid away from all of his high school friends????? the butting heads is common.. if I got a star for every time I butted heads with my parents during highschool I could fill the freaking universe!!!!!!! I think she sent him away for "other reasons' jmhoo"*****

3)intermittant terri comments under kyron pictures on her facebook: mods delete this part if you want.. but her captions under his pictures were cold, detached and sarcastic. One picture of him at the zoo with his head at the a$$ end of an animal she wrote the following: "this explains everything" sje also frequently put his entire name under any photo of him... "kyron horman" vs how she posted under her other children's pictures. I got a sense of detachment almost like she was posting a picture of another kid in her child's class that she wanted to make sure the parents got a copy of the photo. Problem is: she is the parent.

<snip>

I agree with part two of your theory--I keep saying that "butting heads" is just a normal part of teenagedom and without further evidence I'm sticking to that. I like the star analogy, LOL. And yeah, if TH was a teacher, I would think she might have learned some skills to help her son get along better in the family too. JMO

As far as part 3, in the photo you're talking about it was actually J, not Kyron. I guess I have a twisted sense of humor, because if I saw those photos without the current weirdness surrounding the family, I would think they were funny and just gentle teasing. The kid seemed to be goofing around poking fun at himself by posing that way. I do however have a mother whose idea of showing affection, if you can call it that, is teasing, and she's a narcissist. Hmmm. In one family that kind of thing would be innocent fun, in another a covert attempt at putting someone down.

Also, I think the full name on the photo page was not the caption, but because Kyron had his own FB page. When you "tag" someone in a photo, it shows their full name as it shows on their page. Other kids' pics, either they didn't have a page, or she didn't choose to or didn't have permission to tag them. I'm not saying there isn't anything hinky about the photos, but some of what you mentioned can be explained.

And yes mods, if discussing the contents of FB are off limits, let me know. All just my own opinion.

Herding Cats
07-07-2010, 10:28 PM
I haven't read through all the theories on this thread (yet). But something just occurred to me.

What if, a while ago, Terri was considering hiring a hitman on Kaine; went so far as to contact one, get a price, but then she changed her mind. Tried to call it off, didn't pay, told the LG to go away, never mind. The LG says well shoot, I'm supposed to be paid X dollars, I want that money. I'll just take the kid. Kidnaps Kyron, shows up June 28 yelling about getting his money from Terri and this is the first 911 (man shouting threats in the driveway) call. Then, Kaine asks what's going on, Terri says "well, you know back in December when we weren't getting along? I was going to hire someone to kill you. Changed my mind." Kaine grabs baby and goes, thus the second 911 (custody) call.

The restraining order is filed, the cops are involved, divorce is filed...but the LG (or someone he knows) has Kyron, either alive or not, and won't give Kyron back now for anything...he's made the mistake of kidnapping Kyron to get the money Terri promised him originally, but is now in too deep...and can't get out.

I have to say, there's something really off about everything in this entire case. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the above is what happened (or close to it), and the psychopath is not Terri, but the assassin she started to hire back when she was gonna have Kaine killed.

I don't know if I believe Terri is the perp...I just don't know.

Just wanted to throw this out there...it doesn't account for everything, but it does account for some of the odder aspects of the situation.

best-
Herding Cats

Barry
07-08-2010, 12:42 AM
I have been toying with a "two crimes" theory.

Crime 1: TH was trying to kill her husband, and had been for quite awhile. Also had a lover.

Crime 2: Sexual predator got, and took the opportunity to abduct Kyron in the school.

It could explain why nothing TH did or said for that day added up, and would explain deceptiveness on LDT's. She could have been going to see her lover that day, leaving Kyron in a hurry, and possibly a brief and vunerable position. She may not have done well on the LDT's because she had been trying to kill her husband.

Sexual predator got positioned well and took the chance. Got further help because by sheer coincidence, the family of the child abucted had all these very many distracting issues and a coincidental, ongoing parallel crime to boot. Predator long gone, TH left in one hell of a pickle.

Sadly, not many theories end well for Kyron :(

brandi
07-08-2010, 01:10 AM
I have been toying with a "two crimes" theory.

Crime 1: TH was trying to kill her husband, and had been for quite awhile. Also had a lover.

Crime 2: Sexual predator got, and took the opportunity to abduct Kyron in the school.

It could explain why nothing TH did or said for that day added up, and would explain deceptiveness on LDT's. She could have been going to see her lover that day, leaving Kyron in a hurry, and possibly a brief and vunerable position. She may not have done well on the LDT's because she had been trying to kill her husband.

Sexual predator got positioned well and took the chance. Got further help because by sheer coincidence, the family of the child abucted had all these very many distracting issues and a coincidental, ongoing parallel crime to boot. Predator long gone, TH left in one hell of a pickle.

Sadly, not many theories end well for Kyron :(

Thanks button not enough. Very succinct!

mauirain
07-08-2010, 04:53 AM
My theory assumes that once the plot to be rid of hubby via murder by a hired landscaper/hitman wasn’t feasible it became obvious that “if you want a job done well, do it yourself” and the plan to be rid of a suspected cheating husband and his son was formed.

Motive: to have the lifestyle of her choosing with her own son, her baby daughter, home all to herself and an insurance payout to provide the income.

Plan: to murder hubby herself but make it appear as a suicide so that she would not be a suspect.

Problem: hubby has no obvious reason to commit suicide
Solution: murdering hubby’s son not only provides a rationale for hubby’s soon-to-occur “suicide” but removes the unwanted child from her future.

She takes boy to school but leaves with him shortly afterwards and disposes of him. She assumes he will become one of America’s (permanently) missing children. Days, weeks, or months later her husband is found as an apparent (but impossible to confirm) suicide victim.

This also explains how the poor woman could experience two deaths of family members in a very short time without casting any suspicion on herself. No accomplice and no one to rat her out. The perfect murders?y

exactly my theory as well. I think she wanted the home and possible insurance pay off, without Kaine and Kyron in the pic. I am totally with you one the Kaine/suicide theory as well.

CarmelEyesD
07-08-2010, 05:11 AM
Mimi's post on DOTS being a hidden message has me thinking. Maybe the reason DY and TY keep saying TH is not cooperating is also code, to let a kidnapper know TH has not talked? (About what, I have no clues-I am sure some theories could be worked up-someone who wants revenge on her for something, an old lover...something..). We have wondered at some of the other phrases sounding like code: ie allergic to bee's, running finger through 'short' hair, can't see without glasses, etc....) Not sure where or how this fits, but I have felt all along TH is being used as a 'fall guy', maybe to let the real perp feel relaxed, make a mistake or find a way of returning Kyron...

TxLady2
07-08-2010, 10:23 AM
I don't have a real theory, but it's interesting reading all these theories here.
When Tony says that he is not privy to any more information, by being LE, than anyone else... I don't buy it entirely. Detectives have access to more information databases than the general public, and LE takes care of its own. It is normal for LE to keep the family informed up to a point, but I would bet he knows more than they generally tell the family, just because he is a detective himself. And how could he resist not doing a little detective work on his own? It's almost second nature to most of them.
I just sincerely hope that LE is not focusing entirely on Terri, and ignoring other possibilities, simply because of "bad blood" between her and the mom, or her and Kaine, or whoever. Sometimes things are not as simple as they appear to be. If I were LE, I think I would be looking pretty hard at the landscape guy about now. I just have a strong feeling that there is more to that than we have heard so far.

Juliana
07-08-2010, 11:02 AM
I wonder if the landscaper (or some other person TH might have approached about killing Kaine) was bribing TH to pay say, $10,000, or else they would go to the police. Maybe TH didn't have $10,000 so she and the landscaper (or whoever) concocted a scheme to "kidnap" Kyron and perhaps raise $10,000 through donations to a reward fund, and then the landscaper would be paid and Kyron would be released. If so, something must have gone awry.

imo, just a "what if" theory.

I am so hoping that Kyron will be found safe. Kyron is on my mind all the time, he just has such a sweet look about him. I can't stand the idea of him being scared or hurt.

tehcloser
07-08-2010, 11:12 AM
We're missing too many dots.

LPBwhy
07-08-2010, 11:13 AM
Mimi's post on DOTS being a hidden message has me thinking. Maybe the reason DY and TY keep saying TH is not cooperating is also code, to let a kidnapper know TH has not talked? (About what, I have no clues-I am sure some theories could be worked up-someone who wants revenge on her for something, an old lover...something..). We have wondered at some of the other phrases sounding like code: ie allergic to bee's, running finger through 'short' hair, can't see without glasses, etc....) Not sure where or how this fits, but I have felt all along TH is being used as a 'fall guy', maybe to let the real perp feel relaxed, make a mistake or find a way of returning Kyron...

Yes. This is one of my theories as well.

1)If we look at the statements as code, I can see DY's statements as a shout to the perp that TH hasn't talked and the perp hasn't been found out yet. So its safe to bring Kyron home.

OR

2) Maybe the statements are to make TH negotiate with the perp, but she won't because she doesn't want to take responsibility for any of this mess she may or may not have created.

Tink56
07-08-2010, 12:40 PM
We're missing too many dots.

I've been "wondering" why TH is soooooo silent.

Could Houze and LE be working to reach a "deal" that allows TH to talk with some kind of protection? We have not heard one word from this high-powered, media-conscious attorney.

Aedrys
07-08-2010, 01:45 PM
I've been "wondering" why TH is soooooo silent.

Could Houze and LE be working to reach a "deal" that allows TH to talk with some kind of protection? We have not heard one word from this high-powered, media-conscious attorney.

I agree, especially since people are thinking something is happening this week. Even LE said they had to make important decisions this week. Wouldn't TH want to declare her innocence BEFORE the LE arrest her? I can't see the defense attorney having a problem with her saying she's innocent. It weirds me out that they've been in that house with no words being said at all. You'd think the lawyer would want to issue of statement of innocence before everything goes down.

I've also wondered if LE or the SA has been communicating with the lawyer and we just don't know it? So maybe he knows nothing is going to happen this week, so there's no reason for a statement? I just think it's weird that we've never heard anything from Terri's mouth, and now it's just nothing from her family, friends, or even her lawyer. Why the silence? If she's innocent, why is NO ONE shouting that from the rooftops?

harleysnana
07-08-2010, 01:50 PM
Connecting the dots…. IMO….
1. LE put out a flyer asking if anyone saw TH or a white truck similar to the one she drove that day.
2. KH files divorce and PO
3. PO sealed because it contains info regarding ongoing investigation
4. TH hires a criminal attorney … not a divorce attorney
5. Story comes out about TH asking lawn care guy to kill KH
6. LE states that after the info that came out over the long weekend the PO no longer needs to be sealed
7. TH no longer with the others during press conferences
8. Claims of TH not cooperating with LE

IMO …. the dots lead to TH and no one else.
Also….. if we just look at the flyer information alone…. if LE would have
released a flyer with some random person asking has anyone seen this person
or this car everyone would be screaming…. oh “random person” is the POI!

IMO…. TH is the POI even though LE will not say it!

debs
07-08-2010, 02:14 PM
Here's a dot I need connected: Why was Kaine walking to the bus stop with baby K and Terri followed shortly afterward in the vehicle?

4BB
07-08-2010, 02:17 PM
She may have been on one of the Facebook games or something. I have no idea.

human
07-08-2010, 02:18 PM
theory.

She wants hubby gone. He's a pain and all of that nice insurance money to have the kind of life she wants.

She has trouble (surprisingly-lol) finding a good killer to do the job.

Finally, she's got one that she is meeting on Sauvie on Friday. He's perfect!

She's going to Eugene to drop the missing child off and hubby is at home alone. Alibi covered.

But, something goes very wrong!

One of her ex hit men has taken the missing child and wants a ransom.

He wants to be paid for the hits he tried, but didn't come off and she hasn't paid up.

She's in a real hum.

She can't say why she went to Sauvie. She has no one to alibi her. certainly not the hit man.

What a hum she is in!

( I think that there may be coded talk going out to the kidnapper)

Calliope
07-08-2010, 02:21 PM
Here's a dot I need connected: Why was Kaine walking to the bus stop with baby K and Terri followed shortly afterward in the vehicle?

IIRC, they all walked down to the bus stop. I think the 'bus stop' is probably at or near the end of their drive (JMO on that, since it's not a road you'd want kids walking along to a central stop).

Ms Suzanne
07-08-2010, 02:25 PM
I don't have a real theory, but it's interesting reading all these theories here.
When Tony says that he is not privy to any more information, by being LE, than anyone else... I don't buy it entirely. Detectives have access to more information databases than the general public, and LE takes care of its own. It is normal for LE to keep the family informed up to a point, but I would bet he knows more than they generally tell the family, just because he is a detective himself. And how could he resist not doing a little detective work on his own? It's almost second nature to most of them.
I just sincerely hope that LE is not focusing entirely on Terri, and ignoring other possibilities, simply because of "bad blood" between her and the mom, or her and Kaine, or whoever. Sometimes things are not as simple as they appear to be. If I were LE, I think I would be looking pretty hard at the landscape guy about now. I just have a strong feeling that there is more to that than we have heard so far.
I agree.They need to be looking real hard at the landscaper right now.

debs
07-08-2010, 02:26 PM
IIRC, they all walked down to the bus stop. I think the 'bus stop' is probably at or near the end of their drive (JMO on that, since it's not a road you'd want kids walking along to a central stop).

In the released Q and A form (I read it just the other day, so it's recent), one of the Q's was whether Kaine was at the bus stop. His reply was that, yes, he had walked to the stop and Terri drove there a little while later.

Ms Suzanne
07-08-2010, 02:35 PM
Connecting the dots…. IMO….
1. LE put out a flyer asking if anyone saw TH or a white truck similar to the one she drove that day.
2. KH files divorce and PO
3. PO sealed because it contains info regarding ongoing investigation
4. TH hires a criminal attorney … not a divorce attorney
5. Story comes out about TH asking lawn care guy to kill KH
6. LE states that after the info that came out over the long weekend the PO no longer needs to be sealed
7. TH no longer with the others during press conferences
8. Claims of TH not cooperating with LE

IMO …. the dots lead to TH and no one else.
Also….. if we just look at the flyer information alone…. if LE would have
released a flyer with some random person asking has anyone seen this person
or this car everyone would be screaming…. oh “random person” is the POI!

IMO…. TH is the POI even though LE will not say it!
But most of these dots were not proved and I think are related to Kaine(the murder for hire situation) not Kyron.I personally am starting to feel LE went in the wrong direction of the white truck and terri.But they might actually hear of a white truck around the school that could possibly have been the LS?I really hoping they are looking into him more as a POI.I do feel they will find the answers with him.

RubyRed
07-08-2010, 02:48 PM
In the released Q and A form (I read it just the other day, so it's recent), one of the Q's was whether Kaine was at the bus stop. His reply was that, yes, he had walked to the stop and Terri drove there a little while later.


Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?

Yes I was. I walked K down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Kyrons-parents-answer-questions-from-public-97831904.html


It does not say anything about Terri driving to the bus stop.

debs
07-08-2010, 02:55 PM
Was Kaine waiting at the bus stop for Kyron to get off of the school bus?

Yes I was. I walked Kiara down to the bus stop about 3:35 with Terri following close after we left. We all arrived down at the bus stop together and waited as the bus came to the stop.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Kyrons-parents-answer-questions-from-public-97831904.html


It does not say anything about Terri driving to the bus stop.

Thanks. Have the same question, though. Why did he leave with K and Terri caught up with them? Why not wait to go together in the first place?

RubyRed
07-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Thanks. Have the same question, though. Why did he leave with K and Terri caught up with them? Why not wait to go together in the first place?

That is a good question, but I have not heard that answered.

AZlawyer
07-08-2010, 03:08 PM
I haven't read all of this thread, but my thought is that TH had decided the murder for hire plan was not so great--what she REALLY wanted was the close, romantic relationship with KH that she had before. But their relationship was so bad by then that she needed something really dramatic and terrible to happen to bring them closer together and to push all their minor-in-comparison marital issues into the background. What better than a child abduction?

At the press conference early on, TH's body language toward KH seemed like she was saying, "Is it working? Are we closer now?" But he was not reacting the way she had hoped....

anamarieus
07-08-2010, 03:10 PM
I haven't read through all the theories on this thread (yet). But something just occurred to me.

What if, a while ago, Terri was considering hiring a hitman on Kaine; went so far as to contact one, get a price, but then she changed her mind. Tried to call it off, didn't pay, told the LG to go away, never mind. The LG says well shoot, I'm supposed to be paid X dollars, I want that money. I'll just take the kid. Kidnaps Kyron, shows up June 28 yelling about getting his money from Terri and this is the first 911 (man shouting threats in the driveway) call. Then, Kaine asks what's going on, Terri says "well, you know back in December when we weren't getting along? I was going to hire someone to kill you. Changed my mind." Kaine grabs baby and goes, thus the second 911 (custody) call.

The restraining order is filed, the cops are involved, divorce is filed...but the LG (or someone he knows) has Kyron, either alive or not, and won't give Kyron back now for anything...he's made the mistake of kidnapping Kyron to get the money Terri promised him originally, but is now in too deep...and can't get out.

I have to say, there's something really off about everything in this entire case. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the above is what happened (or close to it), and the psychopath is not Terri, but the assassin she started to hire back when she was gonna have Kaine killed.

I don't know if I believe Terri is the perp...I just don't know.

Just wanted to throw this out there...it doesn't account for everything, but it does account for some of the odder aspects of the situation.

best-
Herding Cats

best theory I have heard yet. Very plausible.

froginTtown
07-08-2010, 03:36 PM
I wonder if the connect the dots comments was directed solely at TMH. It seems to be all about the pressure, and to me, I mean I just want to think, it's so that some action will take place and Kyron will be found. I don't think he cares what I think at all, or what dots I connect. Nurse, you sure made some excellent ones, though!

Yeah, she did a good report.. :dance: I myself, am seeing dots in front of my eyes from being up all night... and I'm going to take a nap, and hopefully when I wake up, we will all have more dots.. or maybe some REAL answers to our questions.....:crazy:

Ms Suzanne
07-08-2010, 03:38 PM
I feel maybe it was best he never should have said that comment.

human
07-08-2010, 03:39 PM
this case is about the step-son of an LE person. You can bet he's figuring out things and not letting things go to chance or by the wayside.

If he says, "Connect the dots. He is sure of the dots."

This is personal. He's sure.

froginTtown
07-08-2010, 08:06 PM
This is what I think the "team players" might be thinking happened that day,. (connect the dots)...

The Hormans start their morning...
Kyron is very proud of his red frog science project. Kaine tells him that they will celebrate when he gets home from school... Kaine tells Kyron he loves him, and his son answers "I love you too dad." Kaine gets in his car and leaves for work.
Terri takes Kyron to school early to set up his science project.. She takes pictures and tells the teacher of an appointment.. People at the school say thay had seen Terri there. People at the school said they seen Kyron there... Terri left the school before the attendance was taken.. When the attendance was taken, Kyron was not there...
Terri's where abouts are called into question..( possible disception )... Kaine returns from work around 1:45 (?) and sees Terri on the computer, likely adding Kyrons pic on her FB account..
Kaine and baby head to the bus stop with Terri behind... Kyron was not on the bus...
The bus driver notifies the school and the school calls the police..
-----:(-----THE SEARCH BEGINS-----:(-----
The FBI is called in around 8:00 pm..
Questioning begins for the immediate family...
Terri's story begins to change about the last moments of seeing Kyron..
LE suspicions are raised and begin investigating Terri further..
Cell pings are not adding up to her story/whereabouts...
The Island is searched..
LE and family are beginning to become suspicious.
The truck was taken in.
Terri's cell phone and computer where taken..
Connection to the lawn guy where discovered..
Police question the lawn guy and discover the MFH plot..
The police call a meeting with Kaine, while Terri is taking a second polygraph, and inform him of the MFH plot..
Kaine takes the baby and leaves the home..
A sting operation is orchestrated with the lawn guy and an undercover police officer..
Terri calls 911 on the sting. LE arrives and settles it. Another 911 call about custody.
Terri is served with divorce papers and a restraining order, no visition, and no fire arms..
Terri lawyers up... The "Team members" hold a PC. ask 2 news org's. to leave.. Tell the public they will hold 2 PC a week. Plead to Terri to cooperate and do whats right....
I tried to do this short and sweet and without rumors or unconfirmed facts.... :p :p whew... and by what LE has said as well as the "team players"..

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 08:15 PM
The more I see LE and/or Kaine putting the squeeze on Terri, the less I think Kyron has a chance of being alive.

I am not seeing anything at all from any direction that seems to be of any urgency, with the exception of Desiree's desperate pleas, and I think she is just acting as any grieving mother would.

But there is little suspense about any of this; Kaine is being very methodical in handling his legal affairs, etc...LE is doing whatever it is they do when they don't have enough to arrest their all-too-obvious prime suspect.

Yet it has been literally weeks since we have heard of any searches organized by LE, or got word of any sightings, or heard tell of lots of LE cars and vehicles screeching off into the night in hot pursuit of a possible suspect or manning a rescue operation...

It's just all too quiet...the family indicating they will speak twice a week, or whatever the terms are, making it seem as though this is a project without an end in sight.

If Kyron were still alive and LE knew it, I feel as though we'd feel some sense of urgency. And I for one am not feeling it. I feel, instead, a sense of slowly building a case against Terri Horman.

K!tty
07-08-2010, 08:48 PM
best theory I have heard yet. Very plausible.

Was getting on this thread to post another good theory I heard today and read this one. I hadn't thought about the possibility that TH had hired someone and didn't follow through, so they took Kyron for ransom or something. That could explain comments about believing Kyron is still alive, and could explain the PC response to accomplices: "We would like to speculate but simply cannot".

What I was going to post is something a caller to NG suggested earlier. I wouldn't usually give any thought to the comments of any of the callers, but this person suggested that Kyron had overheard or otherwise uncovered something in relation to the MFH plot. Or TH had reason to believe that he had, and she had to quickly get rid of him for fear of him telling someone. I know he's only 7, but kids see, hear, and understand more than we sometimes give them credit for.

mrsjonnob
07-08-2010, 10:35 PM
If we are assuming the murder for hire info is true, I wonder if a motive for TH to make Kyron disappear is because Kyron perhaps saw/heard something about TH's solicitation of a hit man? She had to get rid of Kyron before he told someone...

MOO

quadlatte
07-08-2010, 11:07 PM
I haven't read through all the theories on this thread (yet). But something just occurred to me.

What if, a while ago, Terri was considering hiring a hitman on Kaine; went so far as to contact one, get a price, but then she changed her mind. Tried to call it off, didn't pay, told the LG to go away, never mind. The LG says well shoot, I'm supposed to be paid X dollars, I want that money. I'll just take the kid. Kidnaps Kyron, shows up June 28 yelling about getting his money from Terri and this is the first 911 (man shouting threats in the driveway) call. Then, Kaine asks what's going on, Terri says "well, you know back in December when we weren't getting along? I was going to hire someone to kill you. Changed my mind." Kaine grabs baby and goes, thus the second 911 (custody) call.

The restraining order is filed, the cops are involved, divorce is filed...but the LG (or someone he knows) has Kyron, either alive or not, and won't give Kyron back now for anything...he's made the mistake of kidnapping Kyron to get the money Terri promised him originally, but is now in too deep...and can't get out.

I have to say, there's something really off about everything in this entire case. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the above is what happened (or close to it), and the psychopath is not Terri, but the assassin she started to hire back when she was gonna have Kaine killed.

I don't know if I believe Terri is the perp...I just don't know.

Just wanted to throw this out there...it doesn't account for everything, but it does account for some of the odder aspects of the situation.

best-
Herding Cats

As twisted of a theory as it may be, one could imagine that Terri indeed thought of this very instance herself.

I had that crazy thought a couple of times so far reading this thread, sparked by a few posters' responses, that perhaps THIS is the line that Terri's defense is going to try to argue...

If so, good luck.:waitasec:

Tink56
07-08-2010, 11:16 PM
The more I see LE and/or Kaine putting the squeeze on Terri, the less I think Kyron has a chance of being alive.

I am not seeing anything at all from any direction that seems to be of any urgency, with the exception of Desiree's desperate pleas, and I think she is just acting as any grieving mother would.

But there is little suspense about any of this; Kaine is being very methodical in handling his legal affairs, etc...LE is doing whatever it is they do when they don't have enough to arrest their all-too-obvious prime suspect.

Yet it has been literally weeks since we have heard of any searches organized by LE, or got word of any sightings, or heard tell of lots of LE cars and vehicles screeching off into the night in hot pursuit of a possible suspect or manning a rescue operation...

It's just all too quiet...the family indicating they will speak twice a week, or whatever the terms are, making it seem as though this is a project without an end in sight.

If Kyron were still alive and LE knew it, I feel as though we'd feel some sense of urgency. And I for one am not feeling it. I feel, instead, a sense of slowly building a case against Terri Horman.

I certainly hope that LE is checking all plane manifests after Kyron disappeared. TH could have found the dark side of the internet and arranged for Kyron's "sale" to some of the groups (individuals) who seek young boys for personal pleasure.

I can't really see her killing little Kyron, but she might have been able to give him to someone else who would take him outside of the U.S.

sahm629
07-08-2010, 11:26 PM
Here's my theory in the case. Well I don't believe it is really true but it is my theory. I would LOVE it if it were indeed true because then it would mean Kyron was okay.

Perhaps Kyron is in a safe place with some long lost relative. Perhaps Kyron's stepmother, father, biological mother have all schemed this whole plot together, and are hiding Kyron in a safe place.

The reason? To make some $$$. After all, Elizabeth Smart's family made millions on a book and a movie. I think kidnapped child Steven Stayner made some good money on a crime book and a mini-tv series. (A hundred billion dollars isn't worth it for what he went through though!!!)

My theory is that Kyron will reappear eventually and be safe.

However their plan isn't going as well as hoped because the nation is not following the story quite like Elizabeth Smart. (Why did she get so much coverage, but he's not getting hardly outside of the local area???)

I base this theory on the biological mother's actions - the letter is what gets me the most - the letter that she released written to her son is so bizarre and it's like she's writing it to the public, not to her son. She doesn't even tell him she loves him till the end. She doesn't even tell him to call 911 or anything like that. I also base it on the body language of all three of them. And I base it that this happened at the very end of the school year. I also base it on the other drama, such as all of the "secretive" stuff going on...

Of course the problem with this plan is that Kyron is old enough to know what's going on and could break the secret to detectives when found.

This probably isn't true, hope it is, but it isn't but I wanted to throw it out here.

quadlatte
07-08-2010, 11:27 PM
Adding to my post above, and IMO debunking the MFH-did-it scenario, I cannot fathom that a hit man and/or lawn guy is just going to take a 7 year old kid (even for potential monetary gain, i.e. ransom) "instead"... it just doesn't make sense.

A 7 year old kid is a burden, and I say that with love for my two children that age. :crazy:

I happily and thankfully took on that burden when I gave birth to them, but unless the theoretical hit man hired to off Kaine just so happens to be a pedophile who likes boys, or knows people who do, I do not think that is plausible at all. :twocents:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I still don't see Terri as having enough connections or assets to hire anything other than a garden variety idiot, no pun intended.

Of course, this is all IMO, but I will be the first to issue mea culpas if I am proven wrong.

Kimster
07-08-2010, 11:31 PM
Here's my theory in the case. Well I don't believe it is really true but it is my theory. I would LOVE it if it were indeed true because then it would mean Kyron was okay.

Perhaps Kyron is in a safe place with some long lost relative. Perhaps Kyron's stepmother, father, biological mother have all schemed this whole plot together, and are hiding Kyron in a safe place.

The reason? To make some $$$. After all, Elizabeth Smart's family made millions on a book and a movie. I think kidnapped child Steven Stayner made some good money on a crime book and a mini-tv series. (A hundred billion dollars isn't worth it for what he went through though!!!)

My theory is that Kyron will reappear eventually and be safe.

However their plan isn't going as well as hoped because the nation is not following the story quite like Elizabeth Smart. (Why did she get so much coverage, but he's not getting hardly outside of the local area???)

I base this theory on the biological mother's actions - the letter is what gets me the most - the letter that she released written to her son is so bizarre and it's like she's writing it to the public, not to her son. She doesn't even tell him she loves him till the end. She doesn't even tell him to call 911 or anything like that. I also base it on the body language of all three of them. And I base it that this happened at the very end of the school year. I also base it on the other drama, such as all of the "secretive" stuff going on...

Of course the problem with this plan is that Kyron is old enough to know what's going on and could break the secret to detectives when found.

This probably isn't true, hope it is, but it isn't but I wanted to throw it out here.

The way that Kaine and Desiree looked at each other during today's presser when asked if someone else was involved gave me a glimmer of hope that he is stashed away somewhere and I also wondered if a family member has him. But the only thing is that I would think that no one would keep him with all this publicity going on around them. I hope you are right, though!

Great first post and welcome to Websleuths! :blowkiss:

Chewy
07-09-2010, 12:21 AM
I like your theory, but I'm not sure she'd trust someone else with the disposal of Kyron's body. And something else just occurred to me.

What if she did like you said, got him away from the school and to Sauvie island for the hand off or where she was going to do him in, and he got a bee sting and died from the allergic reaction? She had to know he was allergic, but she was probably so intent on doing what she was doing that she didn't think about it until it was too late. Can't take him to a hospital because then dad is going to wonder how he got stung by bee when he was supposed to be in school. Maybe it was more than one bee. Maybe he accidently upset an entire hive of bees? Maybe LE found this dislodged hive and something to connect Kyron to it, and that's why the bee allergy was released? To say we know exactly what happened, show us the body?

This would also upset her plans for the mulitimillion dollar lawsuit against the school. Maybe she planned to have him come back alive, but he got stung by bees and died instead. Maybe this happened while he was in the hands of an accomplice she didn't bother to tell about the bee allergy. I can totally see this happening, and all there's left to do is hide the body and hope it's never found. And it would be a big, huge barb against TH to reveal the bee allergy to really make her sweat because she would know that LE is really close to the truth!

This just occurred to me today. I know it's out there, but I can't get past that only now, a month later, they've released the bee allergy and his birthmark (obviously, it would be showing if he was stung by a bee or more than one bee). I also don't know about bees in Oregon, so if I'm wrong on this, please let me know Oregonites (or is it Oregonians?).

This is a very interesting theory. Because there's some part of this whole thing that strikes me as similar to the Emma Leigh Barker case. It seems as though it was a premeditated effort to get rid of the boy but there's so many dumb things involved.

For example did she really think the landscaper wouldn't come forward? And if she wanted to fake this whole thing why not play the grieving mom on Facebook.

Things are just not adding up.

MBLover
07-09-2010, 01:05 PM
I'm sittin' here reading some things on Kyron's forum while straightening my hair...and I just kind of fuzzed out for a moment...

Bear with me for a moment here...

It's been stated that TH believed that KH was having an affair with someone from his work.

Then here comes the interview with KH about TH having PPD or PPP.

Let's for a moment say the above is true

Scenario:

TH has PPD. Former body builder...who has let her body go to pot...because the birth of a child at a later age...she's having trouble getting back into shape...and she believes her husband is having an affair... She feels like she's losing her husband to this "other woman"

Meanwhile...

KH is having this affair with another woman - for whatever reason (just doesn't love TH...or is put off with the way TH looks, etc.). He hooks up with a woman who he tells all of his troubles to... One who listens intently and sympathizes with him...which makes him open up all the more.

For whatever reason...this "other woman" takes KH at his word on everything about his marriage and TH... Other woman thinks KH is trapped. Trapped with a woman who has some sort of mental illness and a 19 month old child...and a 7 yr old. This other woman feels it's unlikely KH is going to leave TH or leave any time soon. Maybe this other woman feels like TH is playing KH and using her "illness" to her benefit. Maybe this other woman is just plain out whacked and KH has made another mistake in making another choice in women... (He marries DY...marriage hits the rocks while she's prego...he marries TH...marriage hits the rocks at some point after her pregnancy...)

So KH has talked to this other woman about everything...TH's situation...his children... She knows about Kyron and the science fair - thinking he could have told her about it and maybe felt bad that he couldn't attend for whatever reason. The other woman sees an opportunity and takes it. Maybe she has been following TH around?

Would be nice to know about this "other woman". Who is she...because if TH suspected an affair...she's probably right. Does she work with him...or is this someone he met at the gym? A work or work-out partner? What kind of vehicle does she drive? And where was she on that morning?

Or if that one ***RUMOR*** is true - about them swinging/alternative lifestyle...could this be someone he's continued on with - without TH?

I keep thinking about Tuba's statement on the dreams thread...the black or dark green truck at the school that morning...

Cher352
07-09-2010, 01:32 PM
I'm sittin' here reading some things on Kyron's forum while straightening my hair...and I just kind of fuzzed out for a moment...

Bear with me for a moment here...

It's been stated that TH believed that KH was having an affair with someone from his work.

Then here comes the interview with KH about TH having PPD or PPP.

Let's for a moment say the above is true

Scenario:

TH has PPD. Former body builder...who has let her body go to pot...because the birth of a child at a later age...she's having trouble getting back into shape...and she believes her husband is having an affair... She feels like she's losing her husband to this "other woman"

Meanwhile...

KH is having this affair with another woman - for whatever reason (just doesn't love TH...or is put off with the way TH looks, etc.). He hooks up with a woman who he tells all of his troubles to... One who listens intently and sympathizes with him...which makes him open up all the more.

For whatever reason...this "other woman" takes KH at his word on everything about his marriage and TH... Other woman thinks KH is trapped. Trapped with a woman who has some sort of mental illness and a 19 month old child...and a 7 yr old. This other woman feels it's unlikely KH is going to leave TH or leave any time soon. Maybe this other woman feels like TH is playing KH and using her "illness" to her benefit. Maybe this other woman is just plain out whacked and KH has made another mistake in making another choice in women... (He marries DY...marriage hits the rocks while she's prego...he marries TH...marriage hits the rocks at some point after her pregnancy...)

So KH has talked to this other woman about everything...TH's situation...his children... She knows about Kyron and the science fair - thinking he could have told her about it and maybe felt bad that he couldn't attend for whatever reason. The other woman sees an opportunity and takes it. Maybe she has been following TH around?

Would be nice to know about this "other woman". Who is she...because if TH suspected an affair...she's probably right. Does she work with him...or is this someone he met at the gym? A work or work-out partner? What kind of vehicle does she drive? And where was she on that morning?

Or if that one ***RUMOR*** is true - about them swinging/alternative lifestyle...could this be someone he's continued on with - without TH?

I keep thinking about Tuba's statement on the dreams thread...the black or dark green truck at the school that morning...

Interesting theory..

Because if the SM had not ended up as the POI she could have gotten custody of the with the baby if there was divorce....Kyron would be gone.. and the "other woman" would have KH all to herself.

kathryann
07-09-2010, 01:41 PM
Does anyone think that maybe someone took Kyron to punish Terri?

tlcya
07-09-2010, 01:56 PM
this case is about the step-son of an LE person. You can bet he's figuring out things and not letting things go to chance or by the wayside.

I would take this more to heart because as you say, he is part of LE and familiar withy investigative technique.

If he says, "Connect the dots. He is sure of the dots."

except for . . (BBM)
This is personal. He's sure.

This IS personal, so I can't see him in a LE way right now, but rather a distressed family member, so I have to give his words the wieght of a helpless, frustrated family member more so than as an official involved in LE giving his opinion about a case he is not investigating but has been following.

Orange text above was added by me to address diferent points you had made.

Black Frost
07-09-2010, 02:34 PM
Adding to my post above, and IMO debunking the MFH-did-it scenario, I cannot fathom that a hit man and/or lawn guy is just going to take a 7 year old kid (even for potential monetary gain, i.e. ransom) "instead"... it just doesn't make sense.

A 7 year old kid is a burden, and I say that with love for my two children that age. :crazy:

I happily and thankfully took on that burden when I gave birth to them, but unless the theoretical hit man hired to off Kaine just so happens to be a pedophile who likes boys, or knows people who do, I do not think that is plausible at all. :twocents:

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I still don't see Terri as having enough connections or assets to hire anything other than a garden variety idiot, no pun intended.

Of course, this is all IMO, but I will be the first to issue mea culpas if I am proven wrong.

Thank you. Your no-nonsense assessment is really appreciated.

PortlandMama
07-09-2010, 05:54 PM
I can no longer keep up with all the threads, so perhaps this has already been raised and dismissed, but here’s a thought: What if Terri did not meticulously plan to “disappear” Kyron but instead, under the influence of PPD or PPP, attempted to punish Kaine by killing Kyron, the baby and herself. If this were the case, it could have been a last-minute decision, though I don’t think it would be based on something like misbehavior by Kyron. Instead, it would be driven by anger toward Kaine and be an act of love/protection for the children and herself in her mind. I.e., I’ll put us all out of our misery (as perceived by her) and he’ll be sorry. We know now that she had the baby with her that morning. Of course, she would have to start with Kyron, and perhaps that proved so much more horrific and painful than she had imagined that she could not go through with the rest of her plan. In this case, she never planned to hide anything (though I’m sure she would have sought privacy for the act itself) until she realized she couldn’t go through with the rest. She could well be amazed that the body hasn’t been discovered. Again, just thinking out loud.

What particular info do we have that would contradict this as a possibility? That weakens it? Apart from your own personal suspicions otherwise, I mean. I am trying to test this particular theory (I have more than one theory, and not all of them involve TH). (BTW, I am loathe to put much weight on the LS assertions, given that she called the cops on him and there seems to be no further evidence beyond his word, so I am consciously setting that aside. Not that I think it would preclude the above anyway. It might just have been the flip side.)

One concern I have that might weaken this theory is that I would think those kinds of incidents (not sure what word should be used here!) normally occur inside the family home, which with Kaine away at work would guarantee privacy and offer certain comforts. Can anyone give examples (suicidal mothers with children, not Susan Smith types) with locations (at home, elsewhere)?

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 06:01 PM
If she did harm Kyron, it could be as simple as whenver she looked at him, she saw Kaine. And Kyron was much easier to "get rid of" than Kaine would be.

Donjeta
07-09-2010, 06:47 PM
Thanks. Have the same question, though. Why did he leave with K and Terri caught up with them? Why not wait to go together in the first place?

I just thought he left to get the car quickly and Terri stayed to talk with the busdriver, waiting for him to call the school. She wouldn't have had to follow and catch up him, he could presumably just have picked her up from the bus stop when he drove back.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 06:55 PM
Well... Do I get to connect dots that use one dot left on/but then retracted from the MSM?

I hate even typing this...
THIS IS ONLY "THEORY" about this situation: I think it is possible that Kyron was found some weeks ago, south of his home town, towards southern Oregon. He had obviously been shoved inside the gate of, and abandoned within a somewhat remote high power/tension facility, one located within the bounds of a bee keeper's farm -- there were hundreds of hives located immediately alongside the facility. His eye-glasses were found near the road leading to the facility.

RoughlyCollie
07-09-2010, 07:00 PM
Well... Do I get to connect dots that use one dot left on/but then retracted from the MSM?

I hate even typing this...
THIS IS ONLY "THEORY" about this situation: I think it is possible that Kyron was found some weeks ago, south of his home town, towards southern Oregon.

The big hole in that theory is that LE did not tell KH & DY that the body was found.

If it weren't for that, I'd like it.

human
07-09-2010, 07:27 PM
I am now concerned that Terri told Desi that Kyron was marked absent at 10. Does that mean that Ts account of seeing Kyron at the groups is correct?

LE has said that he never made it to his classroom and TH was the last to see him.

So what about the 10 AM thing?

Tink56
07-09-2010, 07:51 PM
I am now concerned that Terri told Desi that Kyron was marked absent at 10. Does that mean that Ts account of seeing Kyron at the groups is correct?

LE has said that he never made it to his classroom and TH was the last to see him.

So what about the 10 AM thing?

If I've remember correctly, parents took groups of kids around the school to tour the exhibits.

Class started at 10:00 A.M.

grayjay
07-09-2010, 08:38 PM
TH can't speak because she has done a hideous and unspeakable thing.
She wanted results so that she wouldn't be left penniless after yet another divorce.
After she thought a lot about MFH, she realized she actually just wanted a fall guy.
Detectives compared her computer and phone records, and figured out who was involved.
That was the easy part. They found this person willing to talk.
However, this person really doesn't know enough to help get a conviction or bring KH home
This person let her use their boat and take KH for a fun outing. Just the two of them.
Just for an hour or two. KH didn't come back.

JMO

gwenabob
07-09-2010, 08:47 PM
I just thought he left to get the car quickly and Terri stayed to talk with the busdriver, waiting for him to call the school. She wouldn't have had to follow and catch up him, he could presumably just have picked her up from the bus stop when he drove back.

Not to speak for Debs, but I think she is referring to when they walked *to* the bus stop to pick Kyron up, not after they discovered he was not on the bus. Kaine took the baby, and Terri lagged behind them. Why? Was she reluctant? Guilt? Knowing the ***** storm that was about to hit in 3-2-1?

gwenabob
07-09-2010, 08:53 PM
I am now concerned that Terri told Desi that Kyron was marked absent at 10. Does that mean that Ts account of seeing Kyron at the groups is correct?

LE has said that he never made it to his classroom and TH was the last to see him.

So what about the 10 AM thing?

I think T's account of Kyron missing was misunderstood. I think the Kyron "missing" part occurred at the *beginning* of class when they were assembling the groups to go tour the exhibits. Teacher probably called out the kids' names to go get with their chaperone. The chaperone heard 5 names called, but only 4 little faces looking at her. She then asked where Kyron was so she could start the tour. Teacher figured Kyron would be right with them, not knowing he had told T he was heading to see the "cool electric" one and would be right back. No one knew Kyron was already gone from the school at that point. They saw his stuff, and then teacher remembered Terri saying something about the Dr. appt, plus Kyron had already toured the exhibits with mom, so she put 2 and 2 together and figured he left for the Dr. When he wasn't back at 10, when class started, she marked him absent. The truth is, Kyron was NEVER IN CLASS that day except in the presence of Terri. By the time the first bell rang, he was already gone.

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 09:36 PM
I'm thinking that perhaps LE was able to rule out those later "Terri and/or Kyron sightings" at school that did not include the baby. And maybe the child was among those, as he claimed to see several things that morning...and if he did not see the baby, that might put his whole account in doubt.

densme
07-09-2010, 10:28 PM
evening all, i dont post much but this case has me losing sleep,like everyone else and you all are so great,my thoughts from the beginning have been and still are as listed
i do believe th tried to hire someone kill her hubby but couldnt come up with the down payment or a change of mind and the person she hired has been hounding her for the money,so the person she was gonna hire kidnapped kyron never dreaming she would call the police, knowing that she would be in trouble for the hiring of a hit man, thinking he or she could black male her for the money and now this case is in a different direction,and the person she hired has kyron hopefully still alive, but i have my doubts about that,so whether she wants to admit it or not she is totally responsible for what ever happen to kyron do to her self center thoughts, jmo and the post partum preg issues will just be the excuse she will use to walk free.

digitaldisciple
07-09-2010, 11:01 PM
What if TH knows who took Kyron and perhaps she was the reason why. Perhaps she intended to play some sort of mind game on her hubby but it went awry? Perhaps she hired the wrong person and they turned on her.
I have problems with her trying to kill Kaine and then settling for Kyron. If she could send her son away then bio mom could have probably been convinced to keep Kyron.
In her interviews with the family her face may have been stoney but her eyes were very telling in my opinion. She was reliving something vividly. She was seeing something.She knows something. Something happened. (I've been a counselor at a homeless shelter and I have seen the same expressions on women I've counseled, they are actually reliving a traumatic event, in some cases, ones they caused.)
Kaine said the baby was with her. I haven't heard anyone mention that they actually saw her WITH the baby? This troubles me.
Perhaps she made contacts with some very nasty people in searching for a hitman. Perhaps these people planned on kidnapping Kyron and demanding a ransom.
I believe it was pre-planned but something has gone wrong because this is not the way to off your hubby or get anything. Offing Kyron afterward maybe, but not before. There are just too many variables to get rid of him first.

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 11:17 PM
I think if Terri is reliving anything in her mind, it is whatever she did to Kyron. I think she gave up on the hit idea when the guy turned her down and Kyron was just a miniature to Kaine to her.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 11:19 PM
The big hole in that theory is that LE did not tell KH & DY that the body was found.

If it weren't for that, I'd like it.

Roughly...they didn't tell them that as far as we have been told :(

RoughlyCollie
07-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Roughly...they didn't tell them that as far as we have been told :(

Yeah, I keep thinking maybe they found him already, but then DY would have to be a great actress. I figure she's not acting. If she is, she has missed her calling.

My theory is that TH killed the child using drugs and buried him in Forest Park, which looks near one of the grocery stores from which footage has been requested - Albertson's IIRC. Maybe she had help, maybe not.

Here's the map link from the grocery thread: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=16365+NW+Twin+Oaks+Dr+Beaverton,+Oregon&daddr=5415+Southwest+Beaverton-Hillsdale+Highway+Portland,+OR+97221+to:11536+Nort hwest+Skyline+Boulevard+Portland,+OR+97231-2603+to:Northwest+Sheltered+Nook+Road,+Portland,+O R+to:22075+Northwest+Imbrie+Drive,+Hillsboro,+OR%E 2%80%8E&hl=en&geocode=Ff-9tgIdIoat-CnrousXOg-VVDFLH0J_C4tLSg%3BFV0WtgIdEEOv-CnLnefpvwuVVDH0ktTGYX7b7g%3BFa_qtwIdVVqt-CnBGfok4waVVDFNzFyHxWOQ-A%3BFVJpuAIdjzCt-CknKWtrzACVVDGk_QSkyZ-ViA%3BFW0OtwIdVqms-CkBhvU1kAWVVDGmq4pxBYw2bg&mra=ls&sll=45.563102,-122.827148&sspn=0.318727,0.727158&ie=UTF8&ll=45.548198,-122.798309&spn=0.318812,0.727158&z=11

All the points on the map kind of surround Forest Park.

I still hope he's alive though.

I am definitely off the fence.

Wrinkles
07-10-2010, 12:22 AM
If I had to learn how to play a flute to charm a cobra out of the bushes at my front door, I would learn how to play.

If I say, "My son is alive," knowing that in my heart of hearts he is only alive in my heart and soul, I can say it with all honesty.

If I had to practice in front of mirrors 20 hours a day, with coaches to train me how to spit out something that is believable enough, and scripted in honest enough terms that I could live with myself, and in order to force my son's abductor out of their dung hole and into the light, I would do it.

I don't know that this is what is happening...but I don't know what is happening for sure at all.

PolyGraph
07-10-2010, 12:43 AM
This is a good theory except for one thing: If she left the phone on SI because she wanted everyone to believe she was on SI while dumping a body someplace else, why lie about it? She could simply tell LE, "Yes, I was on SI buying berries to make jam." They never find a body on SI because only her phone was there. She has the perfect alibi when a body shows up at XXX 30 miles away. Or strategically placing her phone somewhere and saying that she LOST it in that location, giving her an excuss for not having it on her and sending le in a wild goose chase, wouldnt that have been easier, I just think she watched csi and thought she knew what she was doing but didnt remember the cell phone ping thing.

RoughlyCollie
07-10-2010, 12:53 AM
If I had to practice in front of mirrors 20 hours a day, with coaches to train me how to spit out something that is believable enough, and scripted in honest enough terms that I could live with myself, and in order to force my son's abductor out of their dung hole and into the light, I would do it.

I don't know that this is what is happening...but I don't know what is happening for sure at all.

I don't know if I could do that, but I would be willing to try.

PolyGraph
07-10-2010, 01:00 AM
I haven't read through all the theories on this thread (yet). But something just occurred to me.

What if, a while ago, Terri was considering hiring a hitman on Kaine; went so far as to contact one, get a price, but then she changed her mind. Tried to call it off, didn't pay, told the LG to go away, never mind. The LG says well shoot, I'm supposed to be paid X dollars, I want that money. I'll just take the kid. Kidnaps Kyron, shows up June 28 yelling about getting his money from Terri and this is the first 911 (man shouting threats in the driveway) call. Then, Kaine asks what's going on, Terri says "well, you know back in December when we weren't getting along? I was going to hire someone to kill you. Changed my mind." Kaine grabs baby and goes, thus the second 911 (custody) call.

The restraining order is filed, the cops are involved, divorce is filed...but the LG (or someone he knows) has Kyron, either alive or not, and won't give Kyron back now for anything...he's made the mistake of kidnapping Kyron to get the money Terri promised him originally, but is now in too deep...and can't get out.

I have to say, there's something really off about everything in this entire case. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the above is what happened (or close to it), and the psychopath is not Terri, but the assassin she started to hire back when she was gonna have Kaine killed.

I don't know if I believe Terri is the perp...I just don't know.

Just wanted to throw this out there...it doesn't account for everything, but it does account for some of the odder aspects of the situation.

best-
Herding Cats

I just read this so dont know if someone else responding to this theory, but this is a very good theory, except le sent the 'hitman' to talk to her, the landscaper did not do it on his own, or did you mean came to talk to her on june 4th??? or that would explain why the landscaper never went to Police with that earlier...maybe he thought le was going to find out so he came forward and tried to implicate terry so you may be right my friend. Im sure (at least I hope) he will be polygraphed too.

My theory is she sold the child for money to pay off the hitman because where was she going to say she spent 10,000 (assuming its a downpayment) coming out of their possible joint account? so she had to get money some way. She may have figured this will not only hurt kaine but give me the money I need to take care of the situation as well. Sick thoughts but Love is scary. I do believe that old phrase "hell hath no fury as a woman scorned" something like that.

ella971
07-10-2010, 01:02 AM
I would do anything I had to for my daughter. I'm impressed that they can ever speak. I'm a basket case and he is not my child. If it was my child I would beg and of course be angry.I think D said she was angry at this point. Anything to get my child back home.

Wrinkles
07-10-2010, 01:06 AM
Hiya Roughly,

You wrote:
>>I don't know if I could do that, but I would be willing to try. <<

I hope to God that you never need to practice 20 hours a day to set up a performance meant to pull an abductor out of their dung hole, but should you ever have to -- ding my Private Message button and I will be there to help train you! Ummm...I do snore though...

MRMAN0014
07-11-2010, 11:28 PM
... BUT BACK TO DISAPPEARANCE OF KYRON and the thought that it was ALL PLANNED OUT. With TMH being a huge fan of crime shows(by her own admission CSI)we know they show LE using such technology as cell phone pings to track/trace a perps movements therefore leading LE to their guilty man. That said, she would have CERTAINLY known for a fact that her movements of that day would be so very easily tracked/traced by her cell phone.(I am not an avid watcher of the crime shows and know this to be a fact).. So, in her planning of Kyron's abduction(perhaps murder) her knowledge of this cell phone fact she could have decided to use to her benefit.. Let me explain.. What if she infact WANTED her movements thru out the day of June 4th to be traced/tracked to Sauvie Island. When infact she was no where near Sauvie Island on this day(except for dropping off phone/picking up phone from SI). Lets say she dropped the phone off on SI sometime that morning(this could be why LE says her cell phone pings don't mesh with her timeline of being at the school)because according to the cell phone pings she was already on SI and according to the pings she stayed on SI for several hours. When infact she had just taken her phone to SI(couldve been anywhere on that island, even just placed quickly off the side of the road in a ditch and later returned to retrieve it from that ditch)AFTER she had taken Kyron to an all together COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, NOWHERE NEAR NEAR SI where her cell phone pings would show her being at (when instead she went an entirely different route and direction with Kyron)... Therefore there would be no trace/track of her movements that day(atleast not thru the technology of the cell phone)it would appear that she was at SI for several hours that day when infact the cell phone was strategically placed on SI, she left without the phone and went on with her nefarious plans for Kyron and then only when COMPLETELY DONE with all that plan entailed did she return to SI to retrieve the strategically placed phone, which would then appear(by the cell pings)that she was JUST THEN leaving SI...So, if she was a fan of all the true crime and it would seem that there has been perhaps months of planning(i.e. murder for hire, then revised to get rid of Kyron first for whatever reasons, some I explained above).. It would certainly seem plausible (IMO) that she would use some knowledge of how technology "catches the perps" she instead use it to her advantage to "outsmart the cops"(and I've heard this mentioned several times does TMH think she can outsmart LE? my answer is yes(IMO) I think she certainly thinks she can outsmart and outwit these cops, I think she tried to think "steps ahead of them") I just hope for little Kyron's sake that LE is/has been onto her [IMO] long planned disappearance and/or murder of her innocent little step son...

This is almost exactly the thought I woke up with the other day? First, I think TMH never thought for a minute anyone would question her story (Just like Casey Anthony) because people like that believe their own lies. I'm thinking maybe theres some truth to Kyron's friends story about the cool electric project, because TMH probably told Kyron she knew where there was a big electric project (like a dam or a power plant or something like that) and they just walked out of the school to go see it. I don't believe it would have been a problem being seen because nobody really would have paid attention to them leaving (nothing unusual about that).

I wonder if there are any places like that in the area that would make this theory work?

cluciano63
07-11-2010, 11:33 PM
I don't watch any shows except for true crime (and sports)...and I'm also writing a crime fiction novel...but I really don't think these things have any bearing on whatever happened to Kyron, especially as it seems if Terri IS guilty, she did not do a very good job of creating an alibi...the only thing she has going for her so far is that no one has found Kyron's body (IMO) and that is down to luck, in most cases. I'm changing my FB page to remove the shows I have listed there, in case I ever fall under suspicion of a crime.

froginTtown
07-12-2010, 03:31 AM
http://www.helpfindmychild.net/kyron-horman

Just a part of my theory..... :)

I'm wondering if the doctors appointment and paperwork may be the beginning of having Kyron tested for ADD.. (attention deficit disorder) which as many parents of young children deal with on a daily basis.... My son has ADD and this is exactly how the process of diagnosis begins with schools.... I also remember hearing Kyrons parents mention how Kyron was misbehaving/disobeying... This is also the beginning stages of ADD... ( and poor grades ) Many posters wonder if there may have been problems between Terri and Desiree,.. Just for the record,, my sons father and I had many heated arguements regarding having to put him on medication or not......

GrainneDhu
07-12-2010, 04:52 AM
I haven't read this thread yet because I wanted to post my theory unaffected by what anyone else posted. Once I've done this, I'll read the rest of the thread.

IF TMH did it, this is what I think may have happened.

I do not believe it was premeditated. No one gets that lucky by plan. I also doubt she would have taken baby K with her if she had planned to kill Kyron because she is educated in childhood development and has to know the sorts of really bad effects it could have on baby K, whom she appears to dote on.

I believe TMH took Kyron into the school that morning and they dropped his jacket and backpack off in the classroom. She took the picture of him with his exhibit (multiple witnesses) about 8:15 am. They left the classroom and Kyron remembered he had forgotten something in the truck.

It had been an especially hectic morning with the kids since their usual morning routine was disrupted. In my theory, TMH has still not recovered from the mood swings that were manifested after baby K's birth.

She takes Kyron out to the truck and at some point, something happens that causes her to lose her temper. She either shakes Kyron, hits him or gives him a hard shove, not intending to kill him. He falls and hits his head against the truck or just the pavement. He's clearly dead or she thinks he is.

She panics. She knows she should not have shaken/hit/pushed Kyron and she instantly fears she will lose baby K if anyone ever finds out about it.

They were standing right by the passenger side of the truck and when she looks around, she realises there is no one in sight. She opens the front passenger door and places Kyron's body in the front passenger footwell. If there was any blood, she wraps him in a blanket or maybe just places an extra diaper to catch it.

She knows that the school won't realise that Kyron is missing until 10 am and she may know from experience that they don't call parents for absences. In any case, she figures she has until 10 am to make everything look normal.

She drives out to Sauvie Island and dumps his body in the water. She assumes his body will be found within a few days but by then, there will be enough distance between the two events that there will be what she thinks of as plausible deniability.

At some point when she is on Sauvie Island, she realises she has her cell phone with her. She's a CSI fan and she realises cell pings could track her, so she pulls the battery out of her phone at that point. That's why there's no information about where she went after Sauvie Island.

She's still in a state of panic and stress. She drives around with baby K to regain her composure. Her instinct is to put miles between herself and Sauvie Island, as quickly as possible.

Eventually she calms down and realises that if she hopes to get away with all this, she needs to be home before KH arrives there. She's way out of her usual area. She stops at the Albertsons either to pee or to purchase something with the initial idea of establishing an alibi. Or maybe baby K woke up and was fussing for something to eat; TMH hadn't prepared for that because she never dreamed they'd be out of the house that long.

On her way home from stopping at the Albertsons, she stops at Fred Mayer, again with the thought of establishing an alibi. She may or may not have stopped at the gym to work out, leaving baby K in the gym's daycare while she does so. If she stopped at the gym, it's because she needed to blow off massive amounts of stress in order to appear normal when KH came home.

When she gets home, she realises that those two stops really wouldn't give her an alibi, so she decides she's not going to mention them. She apparently decides that she will be best off if she pretends to have forgotten exactly what she did that day.

She arrives home before KH, gets baby K settled, logs onto FB and posts the picture of Kyron. She's trying desperately to act normal.

KH gets home, time to meet Kyron at the bus stop and we know the rest.

In the time that Kyron has been missing, I think TMH is freaking out that his body has not yet been found.

I realise the above theory does not take into account Kyron's deskmate's statements in the media. If I am correct, they are a red herring. I doubt the child was deliberately lying but he may have confabulated events (seeing Kyron early that morning, having the conversation with a different schoolmate, etc). It is difficult for me to judge the intentions and veracity of children but I tend to think that his statement was made with good intentions. Mistaken but good intentions.

mrsjonnob
07-12-2010, 05:12 AM
http://www.helpfindmychild.net/kyron-horman

Just a part of my theory..... :)

I'm wondering if the doctors appointment and paperwork may be the beginning of having Kyron tested for ADD.. (attention deficit disorder) which as many parents of young children deal with on a daily basis.... My son has ADD and this is exactly how the process of diagnosis begins with schools.... I also remember hearing Kyrons parents mention how Kyron was misbehaving/disobeying... This is also the beginning stages of ADD... ( and poor grades ) Many posters wonder if there may have been problems between Terri and Desiree,.. Just for the record,, my sons father and I had many heated arguements regarding having to put him on medication or not......

I agree with all of this, especially the bolded, and I am married to my baby-daddy! We went around and around and waited a year to medicate because my DH was so appehensive about it.

mrsjonnob
07-12-2010, 05:15 AM
I would do anything I had to for my daughter. I'm impressed that they can ever speak. I'm a basket case and he is not my child. If it was my child I would beg and of course be angry.I think D said she was angry at this point. Anything to get my child back home.

I don't know how they maintain their composure. I can guarantee that if I was convinced that someone knew the whereabouts of my missing child, I would go give them the beating of a lifetime until they confessed. And I am not a violent person at all. Just imagining DY's pain, makes my blood boil for her. She is much classier than I.

txsvicki
07-12-2010, 05:50 AM
If Terri did something to Kyron I believe she was in a horrible marriage where she felt that she had to do everything for the kids and had no real attention. Maybe she thought she was about to be dumped for another woman, left penniless, and have her child taken from her after having taken care of a man's kid for years after giving up working. Maybe sort of karma. If she did something harmful she may have either set up ADD as a reason for Kyron wandering off and going missing, she's psycho and made sure Kaine wouldn't have him after she raised him, or he acted up at the school and she took him out for punishment until 10am and ended up physically harming him. From all I've read, Kyron should have been with his mother and only his mother IMO.

Mylou
07-13-2010, 07:32 AM
Connecting the Dots....

If it is LE setting TM up, then they are trying to find Kyron.
If LE is responsible for the set ups then TH is quite possibly guilty of Kyron's disappearance.


If it is not LE setting TM up, then I have to ask........
It is interesting the results of each set up
1. The Landscaper.........results RO, Custody, and Divorce
2. Mr. C.......................results adds to Divorce
If LE is not responsible for these set ups, then I have to believe TH is not responsible for Kyron's disappearance. And that she was set up.


I might also add that Mr. C. is an interesting choice as he was KH's friend.
The Landscaper is interesting in that she did put in an ad looking for one, but the ad was in April I believe, and the Landscaper apparently goes back to Nov/Dec 2009.
Is the Nov/Dec 2009 a lie ? Or do the problems in this blended family go back to Nov/Dec 2009 or further.

That's where I am at , at this point.

Trident
07-13-2010, 07:50 AM
I can't connect the dots because I only have half of them. For every action there is a reaction.

In my opinion, something stinks, big time in this case.

Edited to add: I'm taking time off from this case because this one-sided, persecute Terri crap is more than I can deal with. I don't know her guilt or innocence, but from what I'm seeing, it takes two or more to tango.

My opinion only

ella971
07-13-2010, 07:55 AM
One dot one my mind that stood out to me I remember Kain saying he had no idea she was unhappy with him just that after her daughter was born she was depressed.We already know this but for some reason that point is on my mind. Did she have an agenda from the start? That would bring me back to the first dot...her being the nanny.

TobyWong*
07-13-2010, 09:49 AM
One dot one my mind that stood out to me I remember Kain saying he had no idea she was unhappy with him just that after her daughter was born she was depressed.We already know this but for some reason that point is on my mind. Did she have an agenda from the start? That would bring me back to the first dot...her being the nanny.

Does'nt it seem like it? I just don't think the original plan in her head was having to "off" either her husband or his son. I think those options entered into her plan until after she gave birth and realized that nothing can make another human love you the way you think you deserve. imo I don't know if Kaine is/was a horrible partner but it's such a short amount of time to go from helping to take care of kid to soliciting murder and disappearing step son.imo

kiminnm
07-13-2010, 04:17 PM
hmmm..this is a very disturbing situation and it gets stranger every day..ok this is a theory..TH is also able to read media these past couple years..if and a big if because there is no proof..but if..she is a csi fan maybe she thought she would outsmart police...maybe she took him to the island and then home and something went out of kelter there or she had planned it..She is very strong physically and it wouldn't have taken much to hurt this sweet boy..whether it was accidental or planned ..then it would be easiest and safest to just dispose on property or trash recepticle..everyone would be looking at the school...do perps always do what is quick, familar and easy...have they had teams search the property or nearby home..or landfills where thier home trash would be disposed..my hope and wish is that theory is absolutely wrong!!
TH has certainly heard of the CA murder case and maybe she thought she would be alot smarter about it??? :banghead:

cluciano63
07-13-2010, 04:31 PM
I still am not getting to any premeditated murder, even with all of the new "leaks" or whatever they are. I just don't see that, or any motive for it that makes any sense to me. I've seen lots of potential motives here but to murder a child, I'm just not seeing it.

An accident or overly harsh punishment that resulted in death, maybe. If Terri is involved, that is what I think happened, followed by a whole mess of bad to worse judgement. But I am really hoping that Terri is not their only possibility in this case, as it grows colder.

Mia
07-13-2010, 11:07 PM
Enlightening to read all of your theories. Thanks, everyone, for your input.

IMO, I just don't see how TH can't be involved at this point. There has been turmoil within that household over the last six months. Her teenage son moves out (why? perhaps just to escape the madness). Affairs are happening left and right. She tries to hire the yard guy to murder her husband (Kyron's father). She is unstable, detached from reality, capable of causing violence (or attempting to) upon family members. And then...Kyron disappears. These are the dots for me, and they all point back to TH. It just seems incredulous that Kyron's disappearance would be unrelated to all that had been going on with that family over the past months.

Sadly, I do not think Kyron is alive. Whether TH harmed him in a fit of rage or it was more premeditated I have not yet decided. I can see both scenarios as being plausible. What I don't see as plausible is a 3rd party being involved, i.e., TH selling Kyron (to whom? how would she find such an interested party? over the internet? just like that? did she just walk up to someone on the street, figuratively speaking, like she did the lawn guy, and ask them if they wanted to buy her stepson?), TH handing Kyron over to a third person for safekeeping or to be killed (again, who? what would be the benefit to that person? who in the world would agree to such a crime? and why?), or a 3rd party such as the lawn guy taking Kyron for ransom (I don't think bungling criminals with that level of stupidity really exist outside of Hollywood B movies).

Following the principle that the simplest explanation is often the correct one, IMO I see TH killing Kyron either in a fit of rage or in a premeditated plot cooked up in the fog of mental illness/detached reality to hurt her husband or out of hate/resentment toward Kyron. Whenever anyone goes missing, adult or child, someone close to the person is usually the culprit, more than nine times out of ten. Although this case has some crazy components, I don't see it as being extraordinary in that regard. And a mentally unstable stepmother who tried to hire someone to murder her husband several months prior snapping and harming her stepson is much more likely, IMO, than a desperate, crazed, and bolder than bold pedophile entering an elementary school and snatching a 7-year old child without anyone noticing anything out of the ordinary.

All JMO, and how this will end remains to be seen, but I will say one thing I'm sure about - this case has only reinforced my extreme dislike of Facebook!! I'm proud to say I've never had a page on that site and never will. (What is this I read about Kyron having had a page on there? A 7-year old needs social networking? Aaaggghhh!!!!)

cluciano63
07-13-2010, 11:25 PM
I agree about the FB sites on this case...I have made the mistake of looking at some of them and they make me so angry. I am always relieved that WS does not allow all of that BS.

I too do not see a scenario where Kyron is being "held" someplace by someone known to Terri. I think this is something that Kyron's parents have to cling to, and Desiree stating that she believes Kyron is alive has led many to think she knows a lot more. I take it from LE's statement that they consider Kyron to be alive only because they have not been able to prove otherwise as a gentle way of putting it; I don't think they believe that.

Terri is becoming clearer to us and it becomes less likely to me that she would know anyone who would help her do this and stand by her this long, by not giving up Kyron. She has no money apparently so I don't see how she paid someone to take him, and as far as "selling" him...well that is pretty far-fetched.

Just because we are learning lots of weird stuff in this case does not make me think that whatever happened to Kyron is anything but a tragedy we have seen many times before. Look at all the weird stuff in the Haleigh case, and yet I think that one too, comes down to someone in the family harming (killing) the child. Tragically simple.

SmoothOperator
07-14-2010, 12:22 AM
I, too see this in many ways like the Haleigh Cummings case. And the circus going on around the missing child is quickly becoming to resemble that of Satsuma. The statement from LE also is much like PCSO's statement for many months following Haleigh disappearing, its the exact same, "We believe she/he is alive because nothing in this investigation has proven to us otherwise"...

Yet we all know Haleigh is now considered a victim of an open homicide investigation, but still after all the shananigans there still is no proof that she is dead! (Though we all know that she is)...

I just fear that little Kyron seems to headed toward the same long, drawn out injustice while the dysfunction that surrounded him only seems to grow.

cluciano63
07-14-2010, 12:27 AM
I, too see this in many ways like the Haleigh Cummings case. And the circus going on around the missing child is quickly becoming to resemble that of Satsuma. The statement from LE also is much like PCSO's statement for many months following Haleigh disappearing, its the exact same, "We believe she/he is alive because nothing in this investigation has proven to us otherwise"...

Yet we all know Haleigh is now considered a victim of an open homicide investigation, but still after all the shananigans there still is no proof that she is dead! (Though we all know that she is)...

I just fear that little Kyron seems to headed toward the same long, drawn out injustice while the dysfunction that surrounded him only seems to grow.

This case has far too many things in common with Haleigh's case, including a female who may hold the "key", and in neither case does this female seem to be one who gives up as easily as LE hoped or expected. The adults in both cases are overshadowing the fact of the missing child, even if in Kyron's case, some of them do not mean to. And LE is so mysterious in both cases that people either believe they know all and are ready to pounce, or know nothing...not much in between. And both cases had LE in tears at press conferences...

shorty42404
07-14-2010, 12:47 AM
There are so many possible theories. With all the speculation and twist and turns in this case, I still don't know what to think of it. It's becoming a soap opera more than it is a criminal investigation (at least in the media). Kyron is so much like my own son and I think that's why I'm a little more connected to this case than most other cases involving missing children. Based on what DY said, his personality is a LOT like my sons'. I cry and pray every night for this sweet boy. Really, the only theory I WANT to come up with, is one where he is still alive and unharmed.

:heart:

Beatrice
07-14-2010, 12:54 AM
I, too see this in many ways like the Haleigh Cummings case. And the circus going on around the missing child is quickly becoming to resemble that of Satsuma. The statement from LE also is much like PCSO's statement for many months following Haleigh disappearing, its the exact same, "We believe she/he is alive because nothing in this investigation has proven to us otherwise"...

Yet we all know Haleigh is now considered a victim of an open homicide investigation, but still after all the shananigans there still is no proof that she is dead! (Though we all know that she is)...

I just fear that little Kyron seems to headed toward the same long, drawn out injustice while the dysfunction that surrounded him only seems to grow.

Satsuma: Misty Croslin/Cummings is not Haleigh's mother
All Misty wants is Ron & his/her child
Misty resents/jealous of natural mother, Crystal. (her freedom)
Does not want to be 'babysitter'

Orlando: Casey Anthony
Unknown/not sure of father of child?
Anger towards true father for being absent? Rejection...
Caylee reminds Casey of true father.
Sexy photos on phone, internet
(IMO) Casey viewed herself as the 'babysitter' of Cindy's child...

Terri, IMO viewed herself as 'babysitter' of Kyron? For Kaine...
Possible affairs with men? Her need to go to gym to 'work out'? 'He's' there?
Terri wants only her Baby K and true father.

Susan Smith: Wanted boyfriend & no children (his choice)

Is a MAN worth it all?

None of these women got their man!

Chewy
07-14-2010, 12:56 AM
Unfortunately if it wasn't premeditated I would assume they would have found the body by now. I too could see a situation where a mother accidentally snapped or ran him over with the car backing up in the parking lot. Even letting him slip on some rocks and hit his head and then being worried about being blamed for it.

But to me if that was the case she would have been completely unprepared with regard to dealing with his body. Therefor in my opinion it must have been premeditated.

MOO

Beatrice
07-14-2010, 01:14 AM
Usually "connect the dots" means:

Follow the money or follow the romance or both.

newone
07-14-2010, 01:23 AM
One dot one my mind that stood out to me I remember Kain saying he had no idea she was unhappy with him just that after her daughter was born she was depressed.We already know this but for some reason that point is on my mind. Did she have an agenda from the start? That would bring me back to the first dot...her being the nanny.

If I had a nickel for every guy who said ""I was happy'''' when his wife announces she wasn't -- I'd be sooooo rich. I think he was on guy planet and was happy that things were ''managed'' at home for the most part.

Aedrys
07-14-2010, 01:27 AM
Satsuma: Misty Croslin/Cummings is not Haleigh's mother
All Misty wants is Ron & his/her child
Misty resents/jealous of natural mother, Crystal. (her freedom)
Does not want to be 'babysitter'

Orlando: Casey Anthony
Unknown/not sure of father of child?
Anger towards true father for being absent? Rejection...
Caylee reminds Casey of true father.
Sexy photos on phone, internet
(IMO) Casey viewed herself as the 'babysitter' of Cindy's child...

Terri, IMO viewed herself as 'babysitter' of Kyron? For Kaine...
Possible affairs with men? Her need to go to gym to 'work out'? 'He's' there?
Terri wants only her Baby K and true father.

Susan Smith: Wanted boyfriend & no children (his choice)

Is a MAN worth it all?

None of these women got their man!

Um, Casey didn't give a crap who the father of her child was. Her entire motivation was hatred for her mother who was practically raising Caylee while Casey did nothing but starve for attention. Now she did jump from bed to bed quite a bit, but never really tied herself down to a man because they would end up loving Caylee more than her. Casey's case was too much attention on her own child, and Casey couldn't stand it. The father of the child has never had anything to do with it. I do agree that she felt like more a nanny to her own child than the child's mother though. That is spot on.

Now the other two I totally agree on. You nailed them on the head.

Haeve
07-14-2010, 01:33 AM
Springfield, Oregon: Diane Downs
Wanted BF and no kids (his choice)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs

Beatrice
07-14-2010, 02:18 AM
Um, Casey didn't give a crap who the father of her child was. Her entire motivation was hatred for her mother who was practically raising Caylee while Casey did nothing but starve for attention. Now she did jump from bed to bed quite a bit, but never really tied herself down to a man because they would end up loving Caylee more than her. Casey's case was too much attention on her own child, and Casey couldn't stand it. The father of the child has never had anything to do with it. I do agree that she felt like more a nanny to her own child than the child's mother though. That is spot on.

Now the other two I totally agree on. You nailed them on the head.

I totally disagree with your first point....
Any woman would need to know who her child's father is....
Casey only cried over one man-B. Snow.

kathryann
07-14-2010, 09:53 AM
I am so baffled by this, but I posted this earlier and wonder if anyone has said this before, here goes, does anyone think that maybe the substitute or teacher that said Kyron went to the the restroom or went to get a drink was correct? Maybe he went into a restroom and someone held him there until everyone was back in class after the bell rang and then left with him? Something is so strange about this. It seems to me that if TH took him someone would have surely seen it.

ella971
07-14-2010, 10:04 AM
If I had a nickel for every guy who said ""I was happy'''' when his wife announces she wasn't -- I'd be sooooo rich. I think he was on guy planet and was happy that things were ''managed'' at home for the most part.

I agree with you. Some men are basic and need nothing other than food,clean clothes and child care.

grayjay
07-14-2010, 10:09 AM
It seems to me that if TH took him someone would have surely seen it. It seems to me that if TH didn't take him, she's been under so much pressure, she'd be squeaking, squawking and begging for help in finding him. Surely she'd be giving up the silence just like Kaine did by now.

:twocents:

Calliope
07-14-2010, 10:09 AM
I agree with you. Some men are basic and need nothing other than food,clean clothes and child care.

To be fair, some women are like that too.

Heck, I'M like that now. If (God forbid) I were ever to get married again, my primary motivation would be to have someone around who would mow the yard and kill bugs.

tehcloser
07-14-2010, 10:17 AM
To be fair, some women are like that too.

Heck, I'M like that now. If (God forbid) I were ever to get married again, my primary motivation would be to have someone around who would mow the yard and kill bugs.

Well, I know of this yard guy.........but he may be a little busy right now. :dance:

ella971
07-14-2010, 10:23 AM
[QUOTE=Calliope;5403391]To be fair, some women are like that too.

Heck, I'M like that now. If (God forbid) I were ever to get married again, my primary motivation would be to have someone around who would mow the yard and kill bugs.[/QUOTE
Yes! I know alot of them. I'm good being alone mowing and taking care of my own home.Alot of my friends stay married for the check. I call them CHICKEN!!

matou
07-14-2010, 11:05 AM
I think James Pitkin may be dropping a hint that something is imminent. He uses "Arrested Development" as the title of his new editorial on the case. Hmmmm. I know the article is about something else, but he's a pretty sly guy. JMO

http://wweek.com/editorial/3636/14268/

human
07-14-2010, 11:26 AM
I can't connect the dots because I only have half of them. For every action there is a reaction.

In my opinion, something stinks, big time in this case.

Edited to add: I'm taking time off from this case because this one-sided, persecute Terri crap is more than I can deal with. I don't know her guilt or innocence, but from what I'm seeing, it takes two or more to tango.

My opinion only

It may and it may not.

So all the people who married abusers are at fault? All the people who married pathological liars are at fault?

I am not saying that Terri is an abuser. I am just saying that , for example, the person who married that BRK killer, or whatever the letters are, is at fault, for example?

cypress
07-14-2010, 02:21 PM
What bothers me about this case is that for weeks LE, Desiree, and Kaine have been hedging their bets and tightening the noose around Terri in the hope that she will break. Maybe Terri has issues with sex and it functions as a coping mechanism for her, and she did break, and this is the way she broke? I'm NOT defending Terri, but I think there is so much more going on here that we don't know about. Also, it bothers me to some extent that the sexting and everything that goes along with it, was immediately used to validate the murder for hire story, insofar as it seems to me that validation of LE's suspicions was/is the primary goal. Validating LE's suspicions shouldn't be the primary goal. Finding Kyron is the primary goal. We can argue all the live long day about the sting operation, but IMHO, it was sloppy at best, and I think LE was embarrassed about it. Validating their suspicions via this sexting fiasco takes the focus off their failure and puts it onto another of Terri's skeletons, and in that way it behooves LE to make a connection between the alleged murder for hire plot and the sexting fiasco.

I understand that we're not allowed to sleuth Kaine Horman, but what if there are answers in his past or present actions? There are legitimate questions surrounding his character as well, that may have nothing to do with Kyron missing but that may have everything to do with Kyron missing.

Terri may well be a pathological liar or a sociopath or may eventually be diagnosed with some other mental illness, but for 40 years she's lived a rather unremarkable life, a life that was, in fact, rather ordinary. More than one person has spoken out about her devotion as a mother. Maybe it was all a sham, but maybe she was a decent mother. All I know is that we're being given the dots that say Terri did this, and her life has been presented to the media like a bloody sacrifice, and none of it has brought Kyron home.

It makes me question whether or not we have the right dots.

Chewy
07-14-2010, 02:54 PM
I too have felt uncomfortable about the way the LE immediately focused on TH. However some common sense is needed here.

I don't agree with all the speculation about the state of their marriage, the PPD, the sexting and the gym and facebook pages. I don't agree with body language attacks questioning her. All this arm chair detective work is based on accusation and gossip, and most importantly not knowing what's going on.

For all we know Terri could have accidentally forwarded pix of herself to people at the worst time possible.

What we do know is two things. One is that Kyron is missing. Two is that she lied or withheld the truth about a few things. If this is the case we have to ask ourselves why. If there was any possibility of Kyron being found alive, no matter how bad it would look I would think a normal human being would offer whatever information they had possible. If it meant busting herself on the MFH issue, or anything like that she'd do it to save Kyron's life. If this was just an unexpected abduction she would be caught off guard.

So her not cooperating fully leads me to believe that she knows Kyron is dead.
The fact that his body has not been found leads me to believe that this plan was set up for a long time.
Her carefully constructed alibi, her emailing the school etc, doctors appointment, photos in front of the science fair, all lead me to believe that she was covering herself.

It's sadly obvious this was a premeditated murder. Motive? I have no clue. I don't care to speculate. However logic shows what it does. MOO

Boo Scout
07-14-2010, 04:23 PM
Will try to articulate as succinctly as possible, recognizing that these are the beginnings of "working" theories...I don't know how many dots they actually connect :blushing:

Premise: TH has gotten herself into some kind of desperate situation - let's go back a year or so but that's negotiable. She's holding it together somewhat on the outside but on the inside is falling further and further apart b/c of something she's involved in - drugs, gambling, sexual deviance, etc.? As a result of this she owes someone money, and she is stringing them along somehow. She's keeping up a facade, but she's trying desperately to find a solution. She comes up with MFH on KH, thinking she'll end up with his assets, but that doesn't work out. She moves on.

#1 - TH hatches a plan to sell Kyron. She's desperate and that coupled with some emotional/mental issues is leading her to rationalize this away, thinking she can get away with it and make her problems go away. She finds someone involved in human trafficking, perhaps she has these contacts b/c of what she's messed up in, and she sells him to make her debt go away. Kyron could be alive but in serious danger and sad, sad circumstances.

#2 - TH hatches a plan with whomever she owes money to. They will hold Kyron and she will figure out some kind of ransom plan to get money from KH to get Kyron back. There's some kind of handoff. But afterwards, things go incredibly wrong somehow and now she has no idea what's happened to Kyron, but she knows she is in this up to her eyeballs and shuts up.

Or, other premise: At some point in the past several months there was an event that precipitated this. Something happened with TH and this person or family, and it was bad (working on ideas - she certainly has not shown good judgment based on the current news so there are some things that could fit here). They want to hit TH where it hurts and don't care about hurting others.

#3 - b/c of said event above, someone known to TH takes Kyron. They move on Kyron and not Baby K b/c of opportunity. This person is in the community - not a stranger abduction - but it is personal to TH. TH is not responsible but she's aware that someone out there has a vendetta against her. She's not talking b/c she's scared on so many levels and has kicked into the ultimate self-protective mode.

Ok - these are my thoughts. Feel free to shoot down - probably pretty wild. On day 1 (June 5 for me, since I first followed) I had intuition that TH did this, but then I had strong feelings that TH didn't do this but is still somehow responsible based on her behavior. Hope that makes sense.

cannellio
07-14-2010, 04:34 PM
This is what I have been thinking all along. TH figured out KH was thinking of divorce. So she decided to set herself up with either a negligence lawsuit against the school, or ransom against KH. LE has been stating its an isolated incident from the start. I do think her accomplice/lover sent kyron's glasses and possibly a note early on. I think the initial plan was to release Kyron safe. She hands him off to accomplice around SI. However, the whole thing has spun out of control and now they are both in way over their heads. She can't contact perp because she is followed and bugged. I Fear Kyron became too much of a liability and perp has fled.

pghbrandi
07-14-2010, 04:40 PM
This is what I have been thinking all along. TH figured out KH was thinking of divorce. So she decided to set herself up with either a negligence lawsuit against the school, or ransom against KH. LE has been stating its an isolated incident from the start. I do think her accomplice/lover sent kyron's glasses and possibly a note early on. I think the initial plan was to release Kyron safe. She hands him off to accomplice around SI. However, the whole thing has spun out of control and now they are both in way over their heads. She can't contact perp because she is followed and bugged. I Fear Kyron became too much of a liability and perp has fled.

BBM
Just thinking about that makes me so sad for Kyron. He is so innocent and he needs those glasses. That is just so cruel.
Welcome to WS cannellio!

cluciano63
07-14-2010, 04:44 PM
I honestly do not believe they have his glasses. Why searching in rivers, etc. if that is the case?

Not sure if it is true, but I heard that LE is again searching out on SI today.

GrainneDhu
07-14-2010, 06:24 PM
I am so baffled by this, but I posted this earlier and wonder if anyone has said this before, here goes, does anyone think that maybe the substitute or teacher that said Kyron went to the the restroom or went to get a drink was correct? Maybe he went into a restroom and someone held him there until everyone was back in class after the bell rang and then left with him? Something is so strange about this. It seems to me that if TH took him someone would have surely seen it.

That is the point that keeps me from totally believing TMH did it.

Unfortunately, Kyron's deskmate is at an age where he could be mistaken or he could be the star witness. Sometimes kids do confabulate without any conscious intention to deceive. But sometimes kids see and remember stuff with amazing accuracy.

And kids that age are still developing so fast. They change a little bit almost every day, it seems like.

21merc7
07-14-2010, 06:28 PM
That is the point that keeps me from totally believing TMH did it.

Unfortunately, Kyron's deskmate is at an age where he could be mistaken or he could be the star witness. Sometimes kids do confabulate without any conscious intention to deceive. But sometimes kids see and remember stuff with amazing accuracy.

And kids that age are still developing so fast. They change a little bit almost every day, it seems like.

The only connecting dots I see so far are not about TH.

Guess we need to see some kind of evidence to get to that point. :(

mtnone
07-14-2010, 09:06 PM
Ok, for today, how about we go someplace a little less visited?

All from my weird thoughts, not facts. About real people, I will use no names.


Terri, she of the possibly roving eye, has a fling or something more serious with a neighbor and fellow parent of student.

That person passes away in the fall of 2009 in an unfortunate accident. This is what causes the problematic, but holding it together until then Terri to go over the mental cliff. That and the marriage having been shaky since the birth of her daughter. Maybe talk of divorce even. She has no money, little work experience, and a record now. Prospects are not good.

So, she tries to hire the LS man to kill Kaine. Doesn't happen for whatever reason.

She conspires with a, I will give two choices here. A. a neighbor, or family member of a neighbor that has a son that goes to school with Kyron. B. With a family member, maybe an older son or something, of the man that passed away.

Either of these people wouldn't have been out of place at the school at all. They both would have very likely known Kyron. Both are men. Terri seems to like men.

The plan is to disappear Kyron from the school, in whatever manner. The ultimate plan is to sue the school for neglect.

That would get her possible money and revenge at the school where she might have loved to been employed. It would give the event that pushed her over the edge, an accomplice and she might not know where Kyron is for real. It could serve to punish Kaine for her own reasons.

But, based on recent events, she doesn't seem to be bright enough to not use her phone or emails. So, maybe this has no chance because the LE would have seen the trail easily.

Also, if they are really searching the school and very near area, that pushes me away from Terri as the perp rather than towards her.

Food for though, nothing more.

Chewy
07-14-2010, 11:20 PM
I was thinking about a motive and I thought of one that is pretty bad. I can't really post it here because it involves accusations of a minor. So I will hope that people can read between the lines.

What if Kyron's body itself was evidence of sexual assault. We would need to ask ourselves who TH would be willing to protect at this extent. It also could explain why DY stated Kyron was crying about going home. What if Kyron started to talk and TH figured out what was going on and realized if it came to light that someone she cared about would be going to prison or have his life ruined. So perhaps this person was removed from the situation while she figured out what to do with Kyron. Getting rid of Kyron would be getting rid of the evidence.

MY OPINION ONLY>

captivagrl
07-14-2010, 11:47 PM
Just wondering if anyone has heard about cyber-cafes or local libraries being checked out? I know it's been mentioned that TH is a fan of CSI type programs. I don't imagine she would research ways to murder (or have someone else commit murder) from her home computer. Of course the clue could be in one of the episodes of CSI, L&O, etc.

captivagrl
07-15-2010, 12:01 AM
This may seam way out there, but has anyone else considered that she has a female lover? If you saw another woman at the science fair she would blend in (more than an unknown man IMO). Maybe Kyron knew her as TH's friend and he would go with her.
This would explain the over-sexting with this man she barely knows. She's keeping things outwardly heterosexual. What if it's a woman?

akashana
07-15-2010, 12:20 AM
Will try to articulate as succinctly as possible, recognizing that these are the beginnings of "working" theories...I don't know how many dots they actually connect :blushing:

Premise: TH has gotten herself into some kind of desperate situation - let's go back a year or so but that's negotiable. She's holding it together somewhat on the outside but on the inside is falling further and further apart b/c of something she's involved in - drugs, gambling, sexual deviance, etc.? As a result of this she owes someone money, and she is stringing them along somehow. She's keeping up a facade, but she's trying desperately to find a solution. She comes up with MFH on KH, thinking she'll end up with his assets, but that doesn't work out. She moves on.

#1 - TH hatches a plan to sell Kyron. She's desperate and that coupled with some emotional/mental issues is leading her to rationalize this away, thinking she can get away with it and make her problems go away. She finds someone involved in human trafficking, perhaps she has these contacts b/c of what she's messed up in, and she sells him to make her debt go away. Kyron could be alive but in serious danger and sad, sad circumstances.

#2 - TH hatches a plan with whomever she owes money to. They will hold Kyron and she will figure out some kind of ransom plan to get money from KH to get Kyron back. There's some kind of handoff. But afterwards, things go incredibly wrong somehow and now she has no idea what's happened to Kyron, but she knows she is in this up to her eyeballs and shuts up.

Or, other premise: At some point in the past several months there was an event that precipitated this. Something happened with TH and this person or family, and it was bad (working on ideas - she certainly has not shown good judgment based on the current news so there are some things that could fit here). They want to hit TH where it hurts and don't care about hurting others.

#3 - b/c of said event above, someone known to TH takes Kyron. They move on Kyron and not Baby K b/c of opportunity. This person is in the community - not a stranger abduction - but it is personal to TH. TH is not responsible but she's aware that someone out there has a vendetta against her. She's not talking b/c she's scared on so many levels and has kicked into the ultimate self-protective mode.

Ok - these are my thoughts. Feel free to shoot down - probably pretty wild. On day 1 (June 5 for me, since I first followed) I had intuition that TH did this, but then I had strong feelings that TH didn't do this but is still somehow responsible based on her behavior. Hope that makes sense.

I find your theories plausible with one exception - the hand him off to another party for a later ransom scenario. I don't see how it would be possible to return a live Kyron unless his memory of the entire involuntary separation was somehow wiped clear. At 7, Kyron is clearly able to describe the events that led up to his disappearance, and under the circumstances, would certainly implicate TH at some pivotal point.

cannellio
07-15-2010, 12:46 AM
I think the perp is someone he hasn't seen before. He grabs him, TH makes a scene, in front of Kyron to let him know she is not behind it. Perp puts a hood over his head. I still believe this was about a lawsuit against the school, and he was supposed to be found. The whole thing blew up on them and now they are in limbo. They can't contact each other and she can't give him up or Kyron is dead
just my opinion.

PorcineGranny
07-15-2010, 12:50 AM
Here is my theory. Terri has been unhappy in her marriage for quite a while. Terri is the type of person to seek revenge instead of options to work things out. ( I do think she may have had a reason to be angry) This situation with the high school friend tells me he is not the only one she may have been trying to get a situation going with. I mean its unusual to me to know someone a short while and start sending pics in various stages of undress or in a sexual pose to them. Now people who are lowdown and would agree to seeing someone even though they are married can be pretty devious people. What if one of these people was interested in Kyron, but had to play interested in Terri to get to Kyron? She would have told her story to this lover and he/she would have sympathized all the while plotting to take Kyron. Remember in one thread where it said Terri does not realize that she knows how to locate Kyron? I have also read where Terri's sexual interests could be varied.

I don't know how Kyron was gotten away from the school but possibly a very simple way. Things just fell into place. There is no good reason Terri was on SI the day Kyron disappeared. He in some manner was put out, or given to someone for a revenge on Kaine.

It doesn't look good for Kyron, but again I can't imagine her agreeing to his death, only kidnapping and holding him for some type of reward or ransom. Of course when the other person took him, she lost control. But let me just add that with women and jealousy, there is no end to what can happen.

I want to point one other thing out in regards to cruelty to Kyron and the other son.
Remember where long ago in a thread it was said that she referred to , I assume, Kyron as the bully? She may well have considered him the problem of the household.

To sum it up, she could have ample reasons to take out hostility on Kyron, none that make sense to us, but in her mind. And if she was involved in unsavory relationships, which I really think she is , she could have put Kyron really in harm's way. A mind that is corrupt like this can be corrupt in many ways. I say one of her lovers has something to do with this. And I say that there is vastly more to come out. It will be shocking. jmo

txsvicki
07-15-2010, 03:17 AM
Dots are being connected every time any of the family gives a statement. Plenty of people could believe that Kyron was caught in a really awful home situation and had no voice in where he was allowed to reside. His sobbing when forced to return speaks for him. People could connect dots and think he was a victim of some type of abuse either physical, verbal, or emotional. LE is going to have to figure out if Kyron was murdered or if he is being hidden.

newone
07-15-2010, 04:57 AM
I was thinking about a motive and I thought of one that is pretty bad. I can't really post it here because it involves accusations of a minor. So I will hope that people can read between the lines.

What if Kyron's body itself was evidence of sexual assault. We would need to ask ourselves who TH would be willing to protect at this extent. It also could explain why DY stated Kyron was crying about going home. What if Kyron started to talk and TH figured out what was going on and realized if it came to light that someone she cared about would be going to prison or have his life ruined. So perhaps this person was removed from the situation while she figured out what to do with Kyron. Getting rid of Kyron would be getting rid of the evidence.

MY OPINION ONLY>

.....or just plain old beating up a younger kid comes to mind -- it doesn't even have to be ''sexual'' assault to freak out a 7 yr old if older kid is bigger mean and stronger and maybe even left in charge from time to time -- which could explain the silence for sure

shorty42404
07-15-2010, 05:49 AM
chewy and newone, this is a great observation! I had never even thought of that, and not that I want to either but.. very interesting.

debs
07-15-2010, 08:09 AM
........there's that fine line again.

Chewy
07-15-2010, 08:36 AM
chewy and newone, this is a great observation! I had never even thought of that, and not that I want to either but.. very interesting.

I thought of something else. If there was sexual assault, then if they do find the body and there is evidence of sexual assualt TH might have thought they would have simply assumed a pedophile kidnapped him from the school. She probably thought she had covered herself with an alibi and that they would never think she was involved.


One thing makes me curious about this case. I'm not sure why they waited so long to reveal that he was allergic to bees.

RoughlyCollie
07-15-2010, 08:45 AM
One thing makes me curious about this case. I'm not sure why they waited so long to reveal that he was allergic to bees.

I wonder that, too. Maybe no one thought of it since there was so much else to think about when he went missing. Or maybe they thought of it when they hoped he had wondered off or would be found outside, and then figured if he was with someone he would be hidden inside a building, and bees wouldn't be a concern.

Or maybe he isn't allergic to bees and LE is making sure that TH knows they and the other 3 parents are aware that she lied about that in the past.

Oriah
07-15-2010, 09:05 AM
I thought of something else. If there was sexual assault, then if they do find the body and there is evidence of sexual assualt TH might have thought they would have simply assumed a pedophile kidnapped him from the school. She probably thought she had covered herself with an alibi and that they would never think she was involved.


One thing makes me curious about this case. I'm not sure why they waited so long to reveal that he was allergic to bees.

BBM- this has been a sticking point for me from the moment they released that info.

I simply cannot see a search and rescue mission (especially one as expansive as the one for Kyron) missing this piece of information from LE. And I can't imagine a parent 'forgetting' to mention it when LE is asking one of their first questions of a missing person...."Is he allergic to anything?"

It is supremely odd to me, and imo- key.

Mylou
07-15-2010, 09:14 AM
[/B]

BBM- this has been a sticking point for me from the moment they released that info.

I simply cannot see a search and rescue mission (especially one as expansive as the one for Kyron) missing this piece of information from LE. And I can't imagine a parent 'forgetting' to mention it when LE is asking one of their first questions of a missing person...."Is he allergic to anything?"

It is supremely odd to me, and imo- key.

What else I found odd was, aren't you usually asked about distinguishing marks for a person missing ? It was only recently we were told that he had two moles on his face.