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View Full Version : 2010.07.07 -DA no longer opposed to keeping RO sealed.


tk71texas
07-07-2010, 12:44 PM
In a new development, the Multnomah County District Attorney has removed his opposition to making the restraining order against Terri Moulton Horman public.




http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-called-911-during-police-sting/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx


I think if they do open the documents to the public, a whole lotta s@%#$&t will be happening.....and really fast :waitasec:

Emma Peel
07-07-2010, 12:47 PM
YAY!

Oh, gosh, somebody go get that thang quick so I can sleep tonight!

Hopeful One
07-07-2010, 12:48 PM
I would love to see it made public!

cypress
07-07-2010, 12:49 PM
This makes me wonder if the murder-for-hire case is falling or fell apart, perhaps because of the botched sting operation, or perhaps because it's his word against hers at this point.

I think they have less evidence Terri was involved in the murder-for-hire than they have evidence against her in Kyron's disappearance.

grandmaj
07-07-2010, 12:50 PM
More pressure to make TH crack? MOO

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 12:50 PM
I will go see if I can find it.

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 12:51 PM
I feel maybe this RO was sealed for the murder for hire plot.Now that she did not take the bait.I feel there is no case.

waltzingmatilda
07-07-2010, 12:53 PM
I am hoping that an arrest is pending so there would be no need to keep it sealed.

Trying to think positive.

hollye
07-07-2010, 12:54 PM
If I read that correctly, the courts don't open back up until tomorrow, so I would imagine that they wouldn't be unsealed until tomorrow at the earliest.

Emma Peel
07-07-2010, 12:54 PM
More pressure to make TH crack? MOO

IMO - That depends - and I hope it's so - if there's some actual factual evidence greater than he-said, she-said murder-for-hire garden chat in that RO.

roller26
07-07-2010, 12:55 PM
This makes me wonder if the murder-for-hire case is falling or fell apart, perhaps because of the botched sting operation, or perhaps because it's his word against hers at this point.

I think they have less evidence Terri was involved in the murder-for-hire than they have evidence against her in Kyron's disappearance.


We can only hope! Admittedly, the botched sting has me worried. I know we don't have all the facts but it sounded a little sloppy or rather, just hastily done. Moo

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 12:56 PM
If there is evidence, it seems she would have been charged. I'm guessing that what the RO consists of has already been made public, so no point in fighting to keep it sealed.

hollye
07-07-2010, 12:56 PM
I feel maybe this RO was sealed for the murder for hire plot.Now that she did not take the bait.I feel there is no case.

I agree, or now that the MFH has been made public, there is no reason for the RO to remain sealed.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 01:03 PM
Nothing yet. I am worried about this whole thing. If they will now unseal, maybe they have nothing.

grandmaj
07-07-2010, 01:11 PM
IMO - That depends - and I hope it's so - if there's some actual factual evidence greater than he-said, she-said murder-for-hire garden chat in that RO.

Some truths about that event have to come out.

And maybe this why Kaine was meeting with investigators yesterday and not at the press conference.

:cow:

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 01:12 PM
Any other accusations in this RO he will have to have the burden of proof also.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 01:12 PM
The DA would look pretty foolish going to a hearing to plead to keep the RO sealed..."Uh judge, there is some explosive stuff in here, it's all about a possible murder-for-hire plot and we just don't want that to get out until we can get her to confess to it...oh yeah, we tried that already. And it already got out."

I think the DA just wants one less hearing to attend at this point.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 01:13 PM
And maybe this why Kaine was meeting with investigators yesterday and not at the press conference.

This is what I was thinking. What other reason would he have, at this point?

SuziQ
07-07-2010, 01:15 PM
Going by what the DA wrote to the judge, we've probably known for days now what was in the RO. We might get more details though.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-called-911-during-police-sting/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx

(snip)
I called you and informed you that, given the media coverage over the past long weekend, the Multnomah County Major Crimes Team could no longer stand by its assertion in my affidavit of July 2 that unsealing the sealed matters before you would undermine our on-going criminal investigation.

Kimster
07-07-2010, 01:17 PM
I'm hoping this is the latest tactic to put Terri under more pressure. GO LE! FIND KYRON!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtrEN-YKLBM

cypress
07-07-2010, 01:17 PM
Also, if the RO is unsealed because LE have no case, then it's likely the RO will be lifted, which means Terri could have access to baby K. Perhaps Kaine was meeting with LE yesterday in anticipation of Terri regaining her parental rights.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 01:24 PM
Also, if the RO is unsealed because LE have no case, then it's likely the RO will be lifted, which means Terri could have access to baby K. Perhaps Kaine was meeting with LE yesterday in anticipation of Terri regaining her parental rights.

My stomach is churning!

Sailor Bug
07-07-2010, 01:24 PM
I agree, or now that the MFH has been made public, there is no reason for the RO to remain sealed.

The name of the LS will probably be named on the RO

imo

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Terri hasn't asked for any parenting time. That in and of itself is odd to me.

Kimster
07-07-2010, 01:28 PM
The name of the LS will probably be named on the RO

imo

And we will not be sleuthing his personal life - only how he relates to this case. :wink:

cypress
07-07-2010, 01:29 PM
Terri hasn't asked for any parenting time. That in and of itself is odd to me.

Well, we don't really know what her lawyer is doing behind the scenes. I know some want to hear her speak, but the court of public opinion has already largely convicted her, and so her very well-respected lawyer may be playing it extremely close to the vest and telling her to do so as well. Honestly, even if she is innocent, her giving her side of things isn't going to help.

IMHO, silence has, so far, worked for Terri. There's been a lot of finger pointing and supposition, but no hard evidence. We're over a month out and she hasn't been arrested.

JSR
07-07-2010, 01:34 PM
Also, if the RO is unsealed because LE have no case, then it's likely the RO will be lifted, which means Terri could have access to baby K. Perhaps Kaine was meeting with LE yesterday in anticipation of Terri regaining her parental rights.

No that won't happen. Just because the information is public doesn't mean Terri is not still a HUGE threat to that child or Kaine for that matter. The restraining order will remain in place.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 01:34 PM
Maybe they haven't arrested her because they want her to lead them to Kyron. Or maybe they have nothing. :(

Aedrys
07-07-2010, 01:35 PM
Too bad Muzikman doesn't live in Oregon. We'd have that RO pronto! lol.

Kudos to the Oregon peeps who do get it to us quickly! I can't wait to see it!

cypress
07-07-2010, 01:36 PM
I think what they're basically saying is that whatever is contained in the RO is no longer part of an ongoing investigation. IMHO, they've got lawn guy's word and that's it. Other than that, and absent Terri incriminating herself in the botched sting operation, they've got nothing.

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 01:36 PM
Maybe they haven't arrested her because they want her to lead them to Kyron. Or maybe they have nothing. :(
Yes,Maybe they have nothing.

JSR
07-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Please everyone keep the faith!!! We don't know what Terri said on that wire. She may not have admitted asking him to kill her husband but she also may not have denied it. If she never denied it that isn't enough to convict her but a reasonable person could infer that she did indeed intend to have Kaine killed. Which means it would be enough doubt to give a Judge enough to keep her away from Kaine and her daughter for a while.

Unfortunately I'm afraid if she got her hands on the baby she would run to Mexico and we would never know anything about Kyron.

cypress
07-07-2010, 01:42 PM
No that won't happen. Just because the information is public doesn't mean Terri is not still a HUGE threat to that child or Kaine for that matter. The restraining order will remain in place.

On what basis will the RO remain in effect, though? There's no evidence she harmed Kyron. If there was evidence she implemented a murder-for-hire, she would've been arrested. The very fact that LE needed a sting operation tells me they didn't have overwhelming evidence against her in the first place, and as we all know, she didn't incriminate herself in the sting operation.

The RO is tied to the murder-for-hire accusation, but ultimately, that's all it is, IMHO. There's no proof. I don't believe the RO will remain in effect indefinitely based solely on the word of lawn boy. If it was that easy, every disgruntled, non-custodial parent in America would be placing ads for a lawn boy to come up with some cockamamie story about their ex- husband or wife.

It doesn't matter what LE believes is true, it matters what they can prove is true. If LE can't prove that Terri harmed Kyron or that she wanted to hire some lawn boy to off her husband, then there is no legal reason to keep her from her baby.

STEADFAST
07-07-2010, 01:42 PM
Maybe they haven't arrested her because they want her to lead them to Kyron. Or maybe they have nothing. :(

If LE is still operating on the assumption that Kyron is alive, what would they arrest her for?
They didn't charge Casey Anthony with murder until Caylee was missing for four months.

JSR
07-07-2010, 01:49 PM
On what basis will the RO remain in effect, though? There's no evidence she harmed Kyron. If there was evidence she implemented a murder-for-hire, she would've been arrested. The very fact that LE needed a sting operation tells me they didn't have overwhelming evidence against her in the first place, and as we all know, she didn't incriminate herself in the sting operation.

The RO is tied to the murder-for-hire accusation, but ultimately, that's all it is, IMHO. There's no proof. I don't believe the RO will remain in effect indefinitely based solely on the word of lawn boy. If it was that easy, every disgruntled, non-custodial parent in America would be placing ads for a lawn boy to come up with some cockamamie story about their ex- husband or wife.

It doesn't matter what LE believes is true, it matters what they can prove is true. If LE can't prove that Terri harmed Kyron or that she wanted to hire some lawn boy to off her husband, then there is no legal reason to keep her from her baby.

indefinitely that is the key word here. You're right they won't be able to keep Terri away from them for long or indefinitely. But no judge in his right mind is going to lift this protective order in light of a murder for hire. A judge is always going to err on the side of caution. And there's no indication the investigation is over in regards to the murder for hire plot. Generally if a person can't get one person to kill their spouse they will keep "shopping" until they can find one. You know we've all heard the stories of this happening. I would bet there are certainly more than one person out there. And if all the persons are credible they might have a case. Maybe not a strong one but a case still the same.

Plus we also don't know what else is in that RO. There could be more information on her computer or computer searches. Or the fact that LE DOES consider her a suspect in the disappearance/murder of Kyron. A judge would take that all into consideration.

seeking truth
07-07-2010, 01:53 PM
Terri hasn't asked for any parenting time. That in and of itself is odd to me.We don't know that for sure, ClueMeIn. This is a juvenile matter and could also be sealed.

Or, the attorney for Terri is working behind the scenes.

Scary for the baby.

My opinion.

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 01:54 PM
I think the murder for hire accusation is over.Her lawyer will have them for lunch.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 01:56 PM
We don't know that for sure, ClueMeIn. This is a juvenile matter and could also be sealed.

Or, the attorney for Terri is working behind the scenes.

Scary for the baby.

My opinion.

My kids were on my RO, and when it was contested, that was there also.

evelyn24
07-07-2010, 02:07 PM
We can only hope! Admittedly, the botched sting has me worried. I know we don't have all the facts but it sounded a little sloppy or rather, just hastily done. Moo

It definitely was an act of desperation imo. I think they (LE) wanted something to use as a bargaining chip to get her to talk about Kyron. However, she pretty much smelled a rat, and did a nice CYA by calling 911.

Sherbie
07-07-2010, 02:10 PM
I would think an affidavit from LE stating that there are allegations of a MFH plot in addition to their attesting that TH is the last person known to have been with Kyron prior to his disappearance would be sufficient for a "reasonable" person to assume there is a risk of danger to her daughter as well. Wouldn't that be enough reasonable and credible support for the petitioner's request for an RO to be granted?

JSR
07-07-2010, 02:18 PM
I would think an affidavit from LE stating that there are allegations of a MFH plot in addition to their attesting that TH is the last person known to have been with Kyron prior to his disappearance would be sufficient for a "reasonable" person to assume there is a risk of danger to her daughter as well. Wouldn't that be enough reasonable and credible support for the petitioner's request for an RO to be granted?

Yes, but it wouldn't be enough to keep her away forever if they can't find enough evidence to arrest her.

surrogatemom
07-07-2010, 02:25 PM
The second the RO becomes public, wouldn't it be in a PDF linked from a news site? I am thinking so.

nursebeeme
07-07-2010, 02:38 PM
No that won't happen. Just because the information is public doesn't mean Terri is not still a HUGE threat to that child or Kaine for that matter. The restraining order will remain in place.amen! just because the alleged sting wasn't productive and resulted in arrest does not take away from what they had on her in the first place to put the sting in motion!

Does anyone think LE would just set up a sting on a whim? They most likely LDT'd the landscaper, had corroborating evidence, etc before they even moved on this and set a sting into motion. That info they developed does not go away nor is wiped off the white board just because TH clammed up and called 911. She is cornered and she knows it.

LE said he might be forced to make some decisions this week. Not sure exactly what that means... but I am thinking that he might have to move forward with not as much info as he would have liked to have if TH had not lawyered up, etc.

moo

LaceSprocket
07-07-2010, 02:41 PM
Total assumption here, but the MFH landscaper plot may not be the ONLY reason for getting the restraining order. I would imagine the restraining order was granted for other reasons, as well. Maybe not as bad as the MFH plot, but perhaps other things that Terri may have allegedly said or allegedly did.

However, I feel keeping it sealed was necessary concerning the MFH plot. Which made it dangerous to the investigation if revealed. I suspect the rest of it will contain a lot of drama and more he said/she said stuff.

Chablis
07-07-2010, 02:42 PM
So an UC met with Terri and the lawnman? So the lawnman called the cops months ago? Is that what this means?

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html


Sources said Terri Horman, the landscaper and an undercover officer met, but she shut down the conversation.

jadejazzkayla
07-07-2010, 02:59 PM
Also, if the RO is unsealed because LE have no case, then it's likely the RO will be lifted, which means Terri could have access to baby K. Perhaps Kaine was meeting with LE yesterday in anticipation of Terri regaining her parental rights.


when/if the RO is lifted, i hope the 911 transcript comes out too.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 03:01 PM
Much of the journalism is open to interpretation in this case. I can't tell if the lawnman came forward, was discovered by LE while investigating, or called it in long ago.

But am wondering what else is in the RO that LE does not mind making public, yet still would be enough to keep it in place. I think they have run their course on the murder-for-hire thing, unless someone else comes forward to back up the lawnman.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 03:08 PM
We can only hope! Admittedly, the botched sting has me worried. I know we don't have all the facts but it sounded a little sloppy or rather, just hastily done. Moo

Maybe she's watched or read enough crime cases to know those things get taped. ie; her own paranoia because she knew she was attempting a murder-for-hire. To me her cutting off the convo speaks as much to self-guilt as anything else.

Would have been no reason for her to stop the meeting if she were guilt-free in my opinion.

human
07-07-2010, 03:12 PM
And we will not be sleuthing his personal life - only how he relates to this case. :wink:

does that mean we cannot look into his criminal records, if he has any? Or what does that mean?

If we find a picture of him, will we be able to post it? If he has an FB, can we post that?

I don't want TOS!

JSR
07-07-2010, 03:13 PM
Maybe she's watched or read enough crime cases to know those things get taped. ie; her own paranoia because she knew she was attempting a murder-for-hire. To me her cutting off the convo speaks as much to self-guilt as anything else.

Would have been no reason for her to stop the meeting if she were guilt-free in my opinion.

Plus the sting was done in completely bad timing.

Was the sting done before or after Kaine filed for divorce? If it was after then of course she would be on high alert. She would have known why Kaine filed for divorce.

And of course I'm sure LE informed the family they would be looking into all people who had contact with the family (and that would include any workers). So I'm sure Terri would know the jig would eventually be up.

If she did have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance then it wasn't a spur of the moment thing. It was well planned which leads me to believe we're not dealing with a stupid woman. She's smart and knew enough to make sure to not say anything incriminating.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 03:15 PM
If the landscaper cut to the chase and said I want $10K to keep quiet about the plot, I would stop the conversation and call the police too. So it really depends on how this all went down. But whatever she did/said, it was not enough to show guilt.

As far as the RO goes, I'm guessing whatever other stuff may be in there besides the murder-for-hire worries, it is the kind of stuff in most family RO's; so if it gets out, it gets out. I just wonder what could keep her from being able to see any of her children. I hope Kaine was not encouraged to add to the RO in any way, with allegations that could do this, if untrue.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 03:15 PM
So an UC met with Terri and the lawnman? So the lawnman called the cops months ago? Is that what this means?

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html


Sources said Terri Horman, the landscaper and an undercover officer met, but she shut down the conversation.

I don't see how else an undercover FBI could've been present in a convo with she and the lawnman unless she asked the lawnman some time earlier. The way tv news reported it, that was my interpretation. They reported an UC FBI agent was present. Posing as ..use our imagination. But that's just what I think.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 03:29 PM
Plus the sting was done in completely bad timing.

Was the sting done before or after Kaine filed for divorce? If it was after then of course she would be on high alert. She would have known why Kaine filed for divorce.

And of course I'm sure LE informed the family they would be looking into all people who had contact with the family (and that would include any workers). So I'm sure Terri would know the jig would eventually be up.

If she did have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance then it wasn't a spur of the moment thing. It was well planned which leads me to believe we're not dealing with a stupid woman. She's smart and knew enough to make sure to not say anything incriminating.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html (http://www.kptv.com/news/24171293/detail.html)

This says upon learning of the allegations the hubby took the baby, moved out, filed for RO & divorce.

Terri wouldn't know the jig was up if the askee kept his/her mouth shut. I would imagine people ask in good faith their diabolical plot will be protected by the person they're asking.

scandi
07-07-2010, 03:30 PM
I don't see how else an undercover FBI could've been present in a convo with she and the lawnman unless she asked the lawnman some time earlier. The way tv news reported it, that was my interpretation. They reported an UC FBI agent was present. Posing as ..use our imagination. But that's just what I think.

I'm thinking she knew this LS pretty well after all those months and knew he wouldn't ask her for $10,000 to keep quiet. She probably sensed he was acting a bit different and knew something fishy was up ~ IMO

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 03:39 PM
If the landscaper cut to the chase and said I want $10K to keep quiet about the plot, I would stop the conversation and call the police too. So it really depends on how this all went down. But whatever she did/said, it was not enough to show guilt.

I wonder what reason she'd give to a jury for why she was meeting with the 3rd person & whether they'd believe her or not? The news said she cut the convo short. They didn't say it didn't show guilt. They didn't say anyhting beyond that. Apparently her husband & at least one judge believe them or he wouldn't have moved out, taken the baby dtr, filed for a restraining order against her and filed for divorce. Nor would the judge have granted him full custody and her no vivitation (with or without chaperone or whatever they call those custodians)

As far as the RO goes, I'm guessing whatever other stuff may be in there besides the murder-for-hire worries, it is the kind of stuff in most family RO's; so if it gets out, it gets out. I just wonder what could keep her from being able to see any of her children. I hope Kaine was not encouraged to add to the RO in any way, with allegations that could do this, if untrue.

They call that a witness.

Murder for hire with a witness would keep her from seeing her children I would imagine. To me this is the kind of situation that after gross tragedy strikes people ask; "Why didn't somebody do something?"

Whether any of the news reports are true or not they apparently have a live witness against her for murder for hire; the lawnman. UNLESS there is no TH, no missing child, no anything. which I seriously doubt is the case. I don't think this is a fictional family by any stretch. Would be wonderful if none of it were real.

Herding Cats
07-07-2010, 03:39 PM
I just don't know where I sit on this...and the picket up my fanny is starting to be quite irritating.

But to be honest, if I were looking at this from a purely legal standpoint, I don't believe there is any evidence other than some guy's statement that there was a murder for hire plot. His claim could easily have been a misinterpretation of what was said, or an outright lie to get some attention from LE, or for some unknown reason to insert himself into the investigation (I just can't ever forget Mark Carr...).

If this is the sole reason behind the RO, the judge pretty much has to not grant it as permanent. The law stands on parental rights, and if there is no valid, legal reason to believe that a MFH plot existed, or was anything more than a rumor, the judge cannot hold the mother and child apart. Just simply cannot. A Solomon's choice to be sure, and I'm glad I don't have to be sitting on the bench making that decision.

I suspect what will happen is a modified RO may be negotiated. For example, 3-6 months' supervised visitation with a mediator picking up the baby and the visitation being in a public, open place), until the divorce gets finalized (and that will be a brutal battle itself). But unless there is compelling evidence (not hearsay) that the baby is in danger, the judge cannot come between a parent and their child.

We have seen, time and again, when a judge returns a child to a situation which we do not agree with. But that's the law, you know? In most cases, it's the law in that state which controls this.

And it's a good thing, too...or, as someone said above, otherwise a whole lot of people would have their rights violated by someone who is pissed off at them, or feeling hurt by them, or just plain bonkers and making an allegation which is not supported by evidence.

Again, this wicked picket up my fanny is uncomfortable, but I suspect if the RO is not modified, it will be dismissed.

Is that the right thing? Yes, under the law. Maybe not, as it pertains to humans and their actions. Totally different things.

Best-
Herding Cats

LaLaw2000
07-07-2010, 03:42 PM
I'm thinking she knew this LS pretty well after all those months and knew he wouldn't ask her for $10,000 to keep quiet. She probably sensed he was acting a bit different and knew something fishy was up ~ IMO

This is what I thought and even posted the other day. The LS may have even made some sort of gesture that made Terri calm up, or even said something that was not what Terri had said to him. It could be any number of things, IMO, but my guess is that he tipped her off in some way.

JMO

Kimmer
07-07-2010, 03:49 PM
Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.

For The Kids
07-07-2010, 03:50 PM
I feel maybe this RO was sealed for the murder for hire plot.Now that she did not take the bait.I feel there is no case.

On the other hand...maybe they class the guy as credible whereas we know that Terri has reportedly had polygraphs that show her as being deceptive. Because shes now denying it..that doesnt mean the detectives necessarily find her credible and more to the point..what was said before she denied it...ie did the guy speak to her on the phone arrange to meet her...but then turn up with the cop? Also..ie were there any emails ever between the pair? Its a fact that the cops still believed this guy enough after " the sting" to tell Kaine to get him and his daughter out there.

MOO

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 03:51 PM
If this landscaper threatened her before she may have felt it was a threat again.I seriously hope LE is taking a much closer look at this landscaper now.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 03:52 PM
I'm thinking she knew this LS pretty well after all those months and knew he wouldn't ask her for $10,000 to keep quiet. She probably sensed he was acting a bit different and knew something fishy was up ~ IMO

I too imagine she knew him more than just gardening if it's true what he says she asked him to do; murder her husband.

Yes could be he acted fishy to her. We don't know what was said or how much was said. Only that she cut the convo short. That might imply nothing was said. But not to me. To me it only states the convo ended before it was slated to.

To me it means it ended unexpectedly with her ending it.

We don't know what they have on tape against her. It might be more than some imagine. And I don't see why people think the sting on her was "botched" just because she ended it suddenly.

To me that says she got scared. Maybe there's a reason for that.

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 03:54 PM
On the other hand...maybe they class the guy as credible whereas we know that Terri has reportedly had polygraphs that show her as being deceptive. Because shes now denying it..that doesnt mean the detectives necessarily find her credible and more to the point..what was said before she denied it...ie did the guy speak to her on the phone arrange to meet her...but then turn up with the cop? Also..ie were there any emails ever between the pair? Its a fact that the cops still believed this guy enough after " the sting" to tell Kaine to get him and his daughter out there.

MOO
I am in total shock they believed this guy in the first place.I hope they are taking a much closer look at him now.

Ms Suzanne
07-07-2010, 03:57 PM
Him and his white truck.

evelyn24
07-07-2010, 03:59 PM
Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.

This is what I'm thinking as well. The DA might want the RO public now that it's been reported their sting failed and people are questioning why they did the sting etc.
We'll see, should be interesting. I was one who thought their sting was a bad idea.

desquire
07-07-2010, 04:00 PM
Unsealing the RO file will tell us whether TH has contested the RO yet. I'm sure she will and, unless there are some facts we don't know, she will probably be successful. Unlike the uncontested immediate TRO, at a contested hearing the burden will be on KH to show by a preponderance of the evidence that TH attempted to cause him bodily harm. This is the same "more likely than not" standard that the police would have to satisfy to arrest her in the alleged lawnboy/assasin plot. The DA has clearly signalled that they don't have enough to pursue those allegations any further so it's highly likely that the judge would reach the same conclusion in the context of the RO. Sure, the RO will remain in place to the extent it prohibits TH from abusing KH, but there is no way the custody arrangements will stand. No judge would (or should) keep a baby from her mother based solely on unsubstantiated accusations.

evelyn24
07-07-2010, 04:01 PM
I am in total shock they believed this guy in the first place.I hope they are taking a much closer look at him now.

We have no idea what the LE has regarding the communication between he LS and TH, and maybe there are others who were asked by TH to kill Kaine making this man's story even more solid?
Who knows, but why say this man has no credibility when we have ZERO facts and details about why LE believed him.

imo

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 04:04 PM
I don't know that the DA has clearly signalled that they don't have enough to pursue the allegations re: landscaper, I think that the possible unsealing of the RO just won't put the investigation in jeopardy any longer, since it is now public. I wonder if the guy's name is in there? I doubt they would want that out there.

Tiki
07-07-2010, 04:06 PM
The LS had an UC officer with him - that probably made her suspicious. I wonder why they sent him along - wouldn't the taped conversation be enough?

Also, fron the DA's letter to the judge:

"I express no opinion on any position Terri Horman might have in the matter."

Does that mean she (her lawyer) might have some impact on the judge's decision?

and
"You told me of your intent to decide what further action was warranted after you reviewed the sealed documents when your court was open again on Thursday, July 8."

I suppose judges usually go along with the DA's recommendation, but I have been in courtrooms where they didn't. :(

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171619/detail.html

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:13 PM
Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.

Thanks that's a good point. Also most LE tapes their conversations with people making any statements. I'm fairly confident they have the landscaper on tape making these allegations that this woman tried to have her husband murdered. As we know that's illegal to make false allegations to LE. So whoever the man is, he's genuinely between a rock & a hard place if LE decides to press the issue where he's concerned I would imagine. A minor point given what you've pointed out.

mchris1024
07-07-2010, 04:15 PM
Terri hasn't asked for any parenting time. That in and of itself is odd to me.

I am glad I am not the only one struggling with this, something makes me wonder if she is seeing her and I know that sounds crazy.....

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:16 PM
The LS had an UC officer with him - that probably made her suspicious. I wonder why they sent him along - wouldn't the taped conversation be enough?

Also, fron the DA's letter to the judge:

"I express no opinion on any position Terri Horman might have in the matter."

Does that mean she (her lawyer) might have some impact on the judge's decision?

and
"You told me of your intent to decide what further action was warranted after you reviewed the sealed documents when your court was open again on Thursday, July 8."

I suppose judges usually go along with the DA's recommendation, but I have been in courtrooms where they didn't. :(

http://www.kptv.com/news/24171619/detail.html

All purposely vague lawyerspeak I'd venture to guess.

Tiki
07-07-2010, 04:20 PM
All purposely vague lawyerspeak I'd venture to guess.

Yes, ITA - and the letter talks about a phone convo they had, without spelling out the details. I wonder if maybe some media outlet already has more info and are going to report it?



.

For The Kids
07-07-2010, 04:22 PM
If this landscaper threatened her before she may have felt it was a threat again.I seriously hope LE is taking a much closer look at this landscaper now.

No offence but...if she was looking to hire someone to kill someone..i doubt it would be someone who had threatened HER. Beside i think Terri had some sort of relationship with the guy.

JMO

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:22 PM
I am glad I am not the only one struggling with this, something makes me wonder if she is seeing her and I know that sounds crazy.....

Anything being possible; what in the news makes you think she's seeing the baby? All in the news recently said the husband left the home, took the baby with him, filed a RO against the Mother & filed for divorce from the Mother. Didn't the judge grant him full custody also?

That all tells me she's not only not seeing the baby, but that it would be illegal for her to do so and in contempt of court.

Or did I misread your post. Apologies if I did. Your post really threw me for a loop. LOL

seeking truth
07-07-2010, 04:24 PM
I don't know that the DA has clearly signalled that they don't have enough to pursue the allegations re: landscaper, I think that the possible unsealing of the RO just won't put the investigation in jeopardy any longer, since it is now public. I wonder if the guy's name is in there? I doubt they would want that out there.I wonder if names and other information can be redacted from a court document that will be made public?

nursebeeme
07-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Lets also not forget that LE has all of TH phone records as well as computer records, I am betting this is how they found the LS to begin with, so maybe there are some very intresting text messages or even some IM records that prove what the LS told LE.
you and me be thinking xactly the same

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:27 PM
No offence but...if she was looking to hire someone to kill someone..i doubt it would be someone who had threatened HER. Beside i think Terri had some sort of relationship with the guy.

JMO

That's what I was thinking too. The landscaper threatening her didn't add up to me.

Oh I think for her to have asked the guy to murder her husband he wasn't just any ol' casual landscaper by any stretch. Granted stranger things have happened. But a person would have to be plain nuts to ask someone they don't know well to procure spousal-murder for them. But that's just me.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:29 PM
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-called-911-during-police-sting/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx


I think if they do open the documents to the public, a whole lotta s@%#$&t will be happening.....and really fast :waitasec:

I think what's in it will surprise a lot of people.

mchris1024
07-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Anything being possible; what in the news makes you think she's seeing the baby? All in the news recently said the husband left the home, took the baby with him, filed a RO against the Mother & filed for divorce from the Mother. Didn't the judge grant him full custody also?

That all tells me she's not only not seeing the baby, but that it would be illegal for her to do so and in contempt of court.

Or did I misread your post. Apologies if I did. Your post really threw me for a loop. LOL

Nothing makes me think it other then her doing NOTHING to oppose the RO, we have to remember we are being told what LE wants us to be told, the only "leaks" in this case has been information they want "leaked", I've NEVER seen a police department hold their cards so close to the vest, if you think back to Casey we knew so much more information. I have said for days there is something NOT right in TH not filing papers to see her daughter, even yesterday they used the daughter to try to get her to tell something. The whole RO could be part of a much bigger picture with this case, I don't think we know a 1/4 of what is really going on in this case. Her attorney has not been heard from, what attorney doesn't come out and say this is an misunderstanding she is a wonderful mother etc.....just think something isn't right. JMO

Amster
07-07-2010, 04:32 PM
Didn't the media file a Freedom of Information suit to have the RO unsealed? Is the judge deciding that case tomorrow? LE no longer opposes it for the reasons they had for having it sealed....but Terri might...

seeking truth
07-07-2010, 04:39 PM
Total assumption here, but the MFH landscaper plot may not be the ONLY reason for getting the restraining order. I would imagine the restraining order was granted for other reasons, as well. Maybe not as bad as the MFH plot, but perhaps other things that Terri may have allegedly said or allegedly did.

However, I feel keeping it sealed was necessary concerning the MFH plot. Which made it dangerous to the investigation if revealed. I suspect the rest of it will contain a lot of drama and more he said/she said stuff.I have thought, since very early on, that there has been some evidence that Terri is the perpetrator in the crime against Kyron, and that this was known by LE and Kaine and the Youngs.

Information having to do with her involvement in Kyron's disappearance could be in the Restraining Order.

I've thought that the fact that LE was staying in their home had much to do with keeping their eyes on Terri and protecting the baby girl. Who knows how soon they discovered that she had tried to have Kaine killed.

I would think that her being the last one to see Kyron, along with her suspicious behavior afterward, would be enough for a restraining order, but maybe that is just wishful thinking. I feel extremely worried about Baby K. should she be alone with Terri.

My thoughts and opinions.

Indianagirl
07-07-2010, 04:41 PM
We have no idea what the LE has regarding the communication between he LS and TH, and maybe there are others who were asked by TH to kill Kaine making this man's story even more solid?
Who knows, but why say this man has no credibility when we have ZERO facts and details about why LE believed him.

imo

I have to agree with you. As to Kaine, something was said or did that made him believe LS's claims. I doubt Kaine based his belief on the LS's words alone. Perhaps it was the words Terri used to the LS that Kaine realized that sounds like something my wife would say. Or perhaps Terri explained to LS how she was going to finance the plot, meaning LS knew things about their financial situation that he should not have.

I also think Kaine has now sat back and reflected on things his wife has said and done in the past 6 months or so and realized things weren't as the seemed. I think he's starting to put pieces of the puzzle together. JMO

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:47 PM
Well, we don't really know what her lawyer is doing behind the scenes. I know some want to hear her speak, but the court of public opinion has already largely convicted her, and so her very well-respected lawyer may be playing it extremely close to the vest and telling her to do so as well. Honestly, even if she is innocent, her giving her side of things isn't going to help.

IMHO, silence has, so far, worked for Terri. There's been a lot of finger pointing and supposition, but no hard evidence. We're over a month out and she hasn't been arrested.

I don't think a month would be a long time for tv fiction.

indicat
07-07-2010, 04:54 PM
Nothing makes me think it other then her doing NOTHING to oppose the RO, we have to remember we are being told what LE wants us to be told, the only "leaks" in this case has been information they want "leaked", I've NEVER seen a police department hold their cards so close to the vest, if you think back to Casey we knew so much more information. I have said for days there is something NOT right in TH not filing papers to see her daughter, even yesterday they used the daughter to try to get her to tell something. The whole RO could be part of a much bigger picture with this case, I don't think we know a 1/4 of what is really going on in this case. Her attorney has not been heard from, what attorney doesn't come out and say this is an misunderstanding she is a wonderful mother etc.....just think something isn't right. JMO

This is exactly what I have been mulling over in my head today! Something is not right...

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 04:57 PM
I don't know that the DA has clearly signalled that they don't have enough to pursue the allegations re: landscaper, I think that the possible unsealing of the RO just won't put the investigation in jeopardy any longer, since it is now public. I wonder if the guy's name is in there? I doubt they would want that out there.

All they have to do is black the guy's name out or any other info (such as addresses, social security numbers, phone numbers etal) like is done in other such documents published for public consumption.

Aedrys
07-07-2010, 04:58 PM
LE is not going to set up a sting on a whim, guys. That would be a waste of time and taxpayer money. Obviously, they had enough information to want to catch her on tape admitting to it. That would have been the icing on the cake for them. I also don't think a judge is going to issue an RO on a whim. I have faith that they have enough evidence to be worried about Terri as a suspect in not only Kyron's disappearance, but the attempt to hire someone to kill Kaine. This is not some massive conspiracy to railroad TH. I can't wait to see the RO so that we can finally see what's in it that made the judge think it was not a good idea for Baby K to remain with her mother. I have faith that LE and that judge know what they are doing.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 05:47 PM
Nothing makes me think it other then her doing NOTHING to oppose the RO, we have to remember we are being told what LE wants us to be told, the only "leaks" in this case has been information they want "leaked", I've NEVER seen a police department hold their cards so close to the vest, if you think back to Casey we knew so much more information. I have said for days there is something NOT right in TH not filing papers to see her daughter, even yesterday they used the daughter to try to get her to tell something. The whole RO could be part of a much bigger picture with this case, I don't think we know a 1/4 of what is really going on in this case. Her attorney has not been heard from, what attorney doesn't come out and say this is an misunderstanding she is a wonderful mother etc.....just think something isn't right. JMO

I was just wondering what in the news tells you she's seeing the baby in violation of court order. Because I was genuinely curious. And thanks for replying.

This case has quite a lot to discuss I think.

Is it known she's done nothing to oppose the RO?

AnaTeresa
07-07-2010, 05:53 PM
LE is not going to set up a sting on a whim, guys. That would be a waste of time and taxpayer money. Obviously, they had enough information to want to catch her on tape admitting to it. That would have been the icing on the cake for them.

Conversely, think about Jon Benet Ramsey or Riley Fox. The police were pretty aggressive in those cases, and they were wrong. I have faith in LE, but not blind faith.

I'm waiting to see what the RO states, but I'm thinking LE does not have much on TH.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 06:00 PM
LE is not going to set up a sting on a whim, guys. That would be a waste of time and taxpayer money. Obviously, they had enough information to want to catch her on tape admitting to it. That would have been the icing on the cake for them. I also don't think a judge is going to issue an RO on a whim. I have faith that they have enough evidence to be worried about Terri as a suspect in not only Kyron's disappearance, but the attempt to hire someone to kill Kaine. This is not some massive conspiracy to railroad TH. I can't wait to see the RO so that we can finally see what's in it that made the judge think it was not a good idea for Baby K to remain with her mother. I have faith that LE and that judge know what they are doing.

Thank you! I've had that; "it can't be true, must be something else.." feeling on other cases but not this one.

Wrinkles
07-07-2010, 06:12 PM
This makes me wonder if the murder-for-hire case is falling or fell apart, perhaps because of the botched sting operation, or perhaps because it's his word against hers at this point.

I think they have less evidence Terri was involved in the murder-for-hire than they have evidence against her in Kyron's disappearance.

Hello Cypress,

The definition of "botched" is: (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/botched)
1. To ruin through clumsiness.
2. To make or perform clumsily; bungle.
3. To repair or mend clumsily.

I don't think we have any evidence of "botched" -- i.e. I don't think that there is any evidence that the LE agent (Keystone Cop kinda guy maybe) stumbled in the yard and showed his wiring, nor do I think that the landscaper "noticeably" offered his shoulder closer to have Terri speak into his mike (setting off Terri's antennae) etc. I think we do have evidence that Terri "scotched" the matter...she ended the approach by landscaper and LE agent, she cut it off.

Scotched (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scotched):

2. to put an end to

I'm sure it was hoped that Terri would respond in some way that assisted the investigation, she may have (we don't know what was recorded), despite her cutting it off at some point. I don't think I could ref an appropriate sting as "botched" simply because someone didn't respond as we'd hoped ("scotched"). I hate to say it, but I have directly asked my son if he did something that I saw him do and he denied it (naughty naughty boy!!!)

Those who wish to cover their wrong doings have their ways... Despite the most intricate, clever and well orchestrated ways that might be approached to get a wrong doer to "show evidence" of their wrong doing -- wrong doers can "scotch" our knowing of the truth. This does not mean that a "botch" occurred...

You wrote:
>>I think they have less evidence Terri was involved in the murder-for-hire than they have evidence against her in Kyron's disappearance.<<

Perhaps so... I would hate to learn that LE is lame or just looking for a scapegoat. It could happen, but my guess is that they have evidence that could completely boggle our minds at this point.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 06:23 PM
Conversely, think about Jon Benet Ramsey or Riley Fox. The police were pretty aggressive in those cases, and they were wrong. I have faith in LE, but not blind faith.

I'm waiting to see what the RO states, but I'm thinking LE does not have much on TH.

police are sometimes inept and sometimes not. This is not a murder case and in the one you cite the child's body was found inside the home with a broken window within hrs and the Pd said to be inept so much so the head was drummed to step down.

It shocked me how far away from accusing the parent they've been in this case. I'm no PD & I thought of her first from the minute I heard of this case. She did say she dropped him off at school that day which I strongly always wondered at her honesty, especially since news has said she's said to have been somewhere else at the time. My guess is that lil' leak will be proven in a court of law at some point to be true of her.

Sometimes bad people are not the cops. Just my opinion.

scandi
07-07-2010, 06:23 PM
I wonder if names and other information can be redacted from a court document that will be made public?


I just wonder how long it is going to take for them to open the RO docs to the public ???

It could be a way for LE to use the media as a tool to further the investigation, eh?

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 06:30 PM
I just wonder how long it is going to take for them to open the RO docs to the public ???

It could be a way for LE to use the media as a tool to further the investigation, eh?

I think LE has more on her than hope.

WholeLottaRosie
07-07-2010, 06:30 PM
Maybe she's watched or read enough crime cases to know those things get taped. ie; her own paranoia because she knew she was attempting a murder-for-hire. To me her cutting off the convo speaks as much to self-guilt as anything else.

Would have been no reason for her to stop the meeting if she were guilt-free in my opinion.


So TH is damned if she does, damned if she doesn't?

cypress
07-07-2010, 06:43 PM
Hello Cypress,

The definition of "botched" is: (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/botched)
1. To ruin through clumsiness.
2. To make or perform clumsily; bungle.
3. To repair or mend clumsily.

I don't think we have any evidence of "botched" -- i.e. I don't think that there is any evidence that the LE agent (Keystone Cop kinda guy maybe) stumbled in the yard and showed his wiring, nor do I think that the landscaper "noticeably" offered his shoulder closer to have Terri speak into his mike (setting off Terri's antennae) etc. I think we do have evidence that Terri "scotched" the matter...she ended the approach by landscaper and LE agent, she cut it off.

Scotched (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scotched):

2. to put an end to

I'm sure it was hoped that Terri would respond in some way that assisted the investigation, she may have (we don't know what was recorded), despite her cutting it off at some point. I don't think I could ref an appropriate sting as "botched" simply because someone didn't respond as we'd hoped ("scotched"). I hate to say it, but I have directly asked my son if he did something that I saw him do and he denied it (naughty naughty boy!!!)

Those who wish to cover their wrong doings have their ways... Despite the most intricate, clever and well orchestrated ways that might be approached to get a wrong doer to "show evidence" of their wrong doing -- wrong doers can "scotch" our knowing of the truth. This does not mean that a "botch" occurred...

You wrote:
>>I think they have less evidence Terri was involved in the murder-for-hire than they have evidence against her in Kyron's disappearance.<<

Perhaps so... I would hate to learn that LE is lame or just looking for a scapegoat. It could happen, but my guess is that they have evidence that could completely boggle our minds at this point.

We can quibble about the definition of words, but knowing exactly what botched means, it's my personal opinion that LE botched the sting. Terri allegedly talked to lawn guy many, many months ago, and then in the middle of a missing person's investigation that Terri had, by that point, probably suspected was focused on her, lawn guy shows up with some random guy and starts hounding her for $10,000. She didn't take the bait and called the cops on them.

It is my personal opinion that if LE had irrefutable evidence Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance, she would've been arrested and Kaine would've left her and taken baby K sooner. LE openly states they have NO evidence a murder has taken place, which means they have no evidence Terri was involved in Kyron's murder. The questionnaire and DY's repeated pleas for Terri to cooperate tell me that LE has little in the way of proof against Terri. IMHO, they still don't know how Kyron was taken from the school and they certainly don't know where.

butterfly1978
07-07-2010, 06:48 PM
Did anyone catch this in the article?
that "threat call" was made when that same landscaper, in his white truck, showed up to demand his payment of $10,000.
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Terri-Horman-called-911-during-police-sting/Dz4uMChK60KCWjy3W5FG4Q.cspx

I just had a CRAZY thought.... WHAT IF ITS NOT TERRI but the landscaper, blackmailing her......

nonfictionrocks
07-07-2010, 06:50 PM
Maybe she's watched or read enough crime cases to know those things get taped. ie; her own paranoia because she knew she was attempting a murder-for-hire. To me her cutting off the convo speaks as much to self-guilt as anything else.

Would have been no reason for her to stop the meeting if she were guilt-free in my opinion.

bbm

Are you thinking that TH should have continued the conversation with these two men to help gather information to pass on to LE? TIA

From what we heard about the 911 calls that day, TH arrived home and her husband and daughter were not home and then the landscaper and his "buddy" walk up and demand $10,000 or they are going to LE to tell about the "murder for hire" plan. If it were me and I was innocent I would out of my mind thinking "where the heck are my husband and baby girl?!" and would be on the phone to the cops immediately. It surely would be interesting to hear the content of that phone call.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 06:50 PM
I have to agree with you. As to Kaine, something was said or did that made him believe LS's claims. I doubt Kaine based his belief on the LS's words alone. Perhaps it was the words Terri used to the LS that Kaine realized that sounds like something my wife would say. Or perhaps Terri explained to LS how she was going to finance the plot, meaning LS knew things about their financial situation that he should not have.

I also think Kaine has now sat back and reflected on things his wife has said and done in the past 6 months or so and realized things weren't as the seemed. I think he's starting to put pieces of the puzzle together. JMO

I agree with what you've said. I'd even venture they showed him evidence not to be denied. I think any spouse would need that before doing all he's done and he wasted no time. Not to mention the judge's reaction.

scandi
07-07-2010, 06:53 PM
I think LE has more on her than hope.

ITA Adalena ;}

eyes4crime
07-07-2010, 07:00 PM
Seems to me that making the RO public has everything to do with Terri's outstanding crim defense attorney. This guy is known for his PR skills and has been very quiet...could he be busy behind the scenes? moo

Calliope
07-07-2010, 07:54 PM
I understood what nonfictionrocks was asking, and her point.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 08:02 PM
It is interesting that on the divorce petition and the restraining order petition, there is no attorney named. Where the attorney name should be is Terri Horman, as defendent and attorney.

Donjeta
07-07-2010, 08:03 PM
If I was guilt-free and some guys came in and started demanding me money and talking about plans to kill my husband, I'd be pretty scared because they obviously can't be good people with good intentions. Not sure that I'd feel like chatting.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 08:12 PM
It is interesting that on the divorce petition and the restraining order petition, there is no attorney named. Where the attorney name should be is Terri Horman, as defendent and attorney.

Legal analyst I'm not that does sound interesting enough.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 08:16 PM
Makes me wonder if he is only her criminal defense attorney, and isn't handling the RO and divorce.

ClueMeIn
07-07-2010, 08:17 PM
Kaines name is on as petitioner, and his attorney's name is listed.

Terri's name is on as defendent, and under the attorney's name section is Terri Horman again.

Calliope
07-07-2010, 08:19 PM
Kaines name is on as petitioner, and his attorney's name is listed.

Terri's name is on as defendent, and under the attorney's name section is Terri Horman again.

It's a one-sided deal; there's no answer from the respondent until the hearing. So they wouldn't have known who Terri's attorney was or if she even had one.

JSR
07-07-2010, 08:24 PM
It is interesting that on the divorce petition and the restraining order petition, there is no attorney named. Where the attorney name should be is Terri Horman, as defendent and attorney.

If you're referring to the one Kaine and his atty filed that's normal. At the time Terri wasn't yet represented by counsel. If she had been that atty would have been listed. Typically you'll see "pro se" next to the respondent's (or petitioner) name if they don't have counsel yet.

JSR
07-07-2010, 08:25 PM
It's a one-sided deal; there's no answer from the respondent until the hearing. So they wouldn't have known who Terri's attorney was or if she even had one.

Never-mind you beat me to it.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 08:35 PM
Makes me wonder if he is only her criminal defense attorney, and isn't handling the RO and divorce.

I was thinking they're probably seperate matters. all 3 perhaps. the missing child, the RO & the divorce.

It is a convoluted case in my opinion.

JSR
07-07-2010, 08:43 PM
I was thinking they're probably seperate matters. all 3 perhaps. the missing child, the RO & the divorce.

It is a convoluted case in my opinion.

Agreed. I just hope it doesn't turn into another Anthony saga.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 08:48 PM
If I was guilt-free and some guys came in and started demanding me money and talking about plans to kill my husband, I'd be pretty scared because they obviously can't be good people with good intentions. Not sure that I'd feel like chatting.

Then why aren't the cops saying she went to them immediately with this information?

I believe if she had done the expected and hit 911 soon as she could get to her phone out of the 2 would-be killer's earshot the cops and the news would have said so long ago.

How long did the now-missing little boy have to live with her?

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 08:49 PM
Agreed. I just hope it doesn't turn into another Anthony saga.

O gosh there would already be a library full of info on the case if it hoped to compare to that one.

TxLady2
07-07-2010, 09:04 PM
If they wanted to get her to admit on tape that she tried to hire the landscaper to off her husband, then why didn't they just put a wire on him? The UC showing up with him probably set her hinky meter running, so she called the cops after he demanded the money. I would do the same thing.

I'm still not sure that this guy is not just trying to frame her. They only have his word against hers. If they had real proof of this MFH, they would have arrested her then and there. Guess they didn't have probable cause.

cluciano63
07-07-2010, 09:17 PM
O gosh there would already be a library full of info on the case if it hoped to compare to that one.

Or poor Haleigh Cummings' case...

Faenorwyn
07-07-2010, 09:20 PM
It is interesting that on the divorce petition and the restraining order petition, there is no attorney named. Where the attorney name should be is Terri Horman, as defendent and attorney.

Sorry if I sound dumb lol, but maybe I missed something. Has the RO been released already? I thought that wasn't happening until tomorrow!! ClueMeIn....can you please clue ME in? ;) Thanks!! :waitasec:

rosiebean
07-07-2010, 09:33 PM
If they wanted to get her to admit on tape that she tried to hire the landscaper to off her husband, then why didn't they just put a wire on him? The UC showing up with him probably set her hinky meter running, so she called the cops after he demanded the money. I would do the same thing.

I'm still not sure that this guy is not just trying to frame her. They only have his word against hers. If they had real proof of this MFH, they would have arrested her then and there. Guess they didn't have probable cause.
Not necessarily. Legal cases aren't black and white. Just because someone isn't arrested does not mean LE has no real proof, it merely means that whoever is in charge of deciding to arrest/go to trial has not made the decision to arrest/go to trial...LE could have a fairly good case against TH, but, naturally, wants the strongest case possible...and a confession is as strong as it gets. LE could have a lot of information that backs up the LS's claim (text and phone call records, email, LS could know personal information about the Horman finances, LS passed a LDT, LS has witnesses he talked to back in December about TH's request, other people may have come forward willing to testify that TH openly talked about having Kaine killed but they nervously thought she was 'joking', they could have other people she approached to in the MFH plot). LE simply may have wanted TH's confession on tape as a means of having an iron-clad case. Just because the sting failed does not mean the case is over. Likewise, just because they attempted the sting, it does not mean that LE has nothing but the LS's word. For goodness sake, look at Scott Peterson...did LE have no evidence that he was responsible for Laci and their child's death just because it took months for the arrest?

It could very well be that LE has a very thin case in the MFH plot. Their attempt at the sting is in no way proof of exactly what other evidence they have, IMO.

Jack
07-07-2010, 09:38 PM
We can quibble about the definition of words, but knowing exactly what botched means, it's my personal opinion that LE botched the sting. Terri allegedly talked to lawn guy many, many months ago, and then in the middle of a missing person's investigation that Terri had, by that point, probably suspected was focused on her, lawn guy shows up with some random guy and starts hounding her for $10,000. She didn't take the bait and called the cops on them.

It is my personal opinion that if LE had irrefutable evidence Terri was involved in Kyron's disappearance, she would've been arrested and Kaine would've left her and taken baby K sooner. LE openly states they have NO evidence a murder has taken place, which means they have no evidence Terri was involved in Kyron's murder. The questionnaire and DY's repeated pleas for Terri to cooperate tell me that LE has little in the way of proof against Terri. IMHO, they still don't know how Kyron was taken from the school and they certainly don't know where.

Perfectly stated. I so agree, LE doesn't have enough in either case to hang a hat on. She would have to be some sort of an idiot to fall for the attempted sting. Do they think she is so simple she wouldn't catch on?

I think I'm firmly back on the fence until I see something concrete.

Adalena935
07-07-2010, 09:38 PM
So TH is damned if she does, damned if she doesn't?

Rosie, I'm a Christian and believe only God Almighty has those powers.

wondering1
07-07-2010, 09:46 PM
Seems to me that making the RO public has everything to do with Terri's outstanding crim defense attorney. This guy is known for his PR skills and has been very quiet...could he be busy behind the scenes? moo

I think it's just because there's a motion pending to unseal it with a hearing that a lot of people would have to prepare and appear for. And there's not reason to go forward with all that since the LS dude info is public knowledge now anyway. There may be a few other details in there, but you really wouldn't need anything else -- to say the least.

Jack
07-07-2010, 09:47 PM
If they wanted to get her to admit on tape that she tried to hire the landscaper to off her husband, then why didn't they just put a wire on him? The UC showing up with him probably set her hinky meter running, so she called the cops after he demanded the money. I would do the same thing.

I'm still not sure that this guy is not just trying to frame her. They only have his word against hers. If they had real proof of this MFH, they would have arrested her then and there. Guess they didn't have probable cause.

They should have sent him with a wire on and had him tell her that if he told the police about her soliciting him it would certainly look bad for her seeing as how her step son was currently missing, and demand money. Then see what she said to that. ....On second thought, perhaps that what they did and she didn't fall for it and called 911 to report someone threatening her.

The_Flashlight
07-07-2010, 09:54 PM
I think LE made a mistake in the approach to TH. I would have had the LS go to her and ask her for direction. Put the power in her hands. Something like: "I have been approached by the cops and I put them off because I wanted to talk to you about how I should handle that." Get her to admit the murder for hire plot in the process. LS being wired at the time. I think the UC was a red flag and extorting in front of a stranger is what told her to cut it off. Just my opinion and I'm not saying anything bad about LE. I think it was a gamble from the beginning.

Wrinkles
07-07-2010, 10:44 PM
--- snipped ---
Terri allegedly talked to lawn guy many, many months ago, and then in the middle of a missing person's investigation that Terri had, by that point, probably suspected was focused on her, lawn guy shows up with some random guy and starts hounding her for $10,000. She didn't take the bait and called the cops on them.
--- snipped ---

It would be interesting to know when Terri and the landscaper had their last conversation or communication prior to Kyron's disappearance and the sting. We have the following...

>>A landscaper who said Kyron Horman's stepmother offered to pay him to kill her husband about six or seven months ago (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_wore_wire_asked_ter.html)<<

Do we have anything which has indicated that these two have not been in regular communication since the "offer" or that they broke off communication immediately after the offer? I'm wondering if I missed a news article?

EDITED: Perhaps the RO mentions when these two last communicated.

Claudette
07-07-2010, 11:27 PM
I thought they DID have him wired?

Theory - perhaps he is involved and LE is trying to get him in their good graces (I think that is the expression) by having him be on "their side".

ClueMeIn
07-08-2010, 02:07 AM
If you're referring to the one Kaine and his atty filed that's normal. At the time Terri wasn't yet represented by counsel. If she had been that atty would have been listed. Typically you'll see "pro se" next to the respondent's (or petitioner) name if they don't have counsel yet.
__________________

They usually update it, once an attorney is obtained. Although she may need to notify the court first.

I believe it is because he isn't taking the divorce or restraining order cases. Those are civil matters.

Terri could have asked for a hearing within 5 days. She didn't have to wait to see her daughter. There has to be a reason for that.

ClueMeIn
07-08-2010, 02:08 AM
You can bet if someone took my child, legitimate reasons or not, I would be raising heck!

xin
07-08-2010, 02:15 AM
If you're referring to the one Kaine and his atty filed that's normal. At the time Terri wasn't yet represented by counsel. If she had been that atty would have been listed. Typically you'll see "pro se" next to the respondent's (or petitioner) name if they don't have counsel yet.
__________________

They usually update it, once an attorney is obtained. Although she may need to notify the court first.

I believe it is because he isn't taking the divorce or restraining order cases. Those are civil matters.

Terri could have asked for a hearing within 5 days. She didn't have to wait to see her daughter. There has to be a reason for that.


Good point--we haven't heard any objections from TH over the daughter being taken from her.

sorrell skye
07-08-2010, 03:29 AM
A lot of discussion has occurred about the UC showing up on TH's doorstep with the wired LS during the sting. There has been the question of why didn't the LS just go by himself.

Here's why, IMO:

Even though the LS was wired, and the conversation was taped, the UC (as an official witness) needed to be present in order to positively ID TH as the one making any statements.

Without the UC present to officially witness any possible incriminating statements, regardless of whether or not the statements were recorded, there would still be no concrete proof that it was indeed TH on the tape, even if she flat-out said "Hi, lawn boy, long time no see. I'm Terri Horman, aka RDSQRL, and there's no way in Hades I'm giving you $10,000 because we shook hands on $5,000, but then I changed my mind, because that SOB isn't worth that much, and anyways - you said you wouldn't do it yada yada yada... so take a hike..."

If it wasn't witnessed by an LE officer, it may not hold up in court, since anyone could pose as TH & say anything on tape. Hence, the necessary presence of the UC - to verify that it was indeed her.

I know they do it different in the movies & in TV shows, where the guy wears a wire & the suspect talks & it gets recorded, and the suspect gets convicted on the basis of a recorded conversation. But that's not how it's done in reality.

Karen Anne RN
07-08-2010, 03:40 AM
If they wanted to get her to admit on tape that she tried to hire the landscaper to off her husband, then why didn't they just put a wire on him? The UC showing up with him probably set her hinky meter running, so she called the cops after he demanded the money. I would do the same thing.

I'm still not sure that this guy is not just trying to frame her. They only have his word against hers. If they had real proof of this MFH, they would have arrested her then and there. Guess they didn't have probable cause.

If I am guilty of trying to hire a HM, the last thing on earth I would want to do is call 911 and bring that man to the attention of the police.

I would only call 911 if I was completely innocent.

But then again, I'm sure that there had to be enough evidence for them to get the ok to do the sting.

This is the most confusing and confounding case I have followed.

GrainneDhu
07-08-2010, 07:57 AM
Maybe she's watched or read enough crime cases to know those things get taped. ie; her own paranoia because she knew she was attempting a murder-for-hire. To me her cutting off the convo speaks as much to self-guilt as anything else.

Would have been no reason for her to stop the meeting if she were guilt-free in my opinion.

I disagree.

If I were TMH and knew that I were factually innocent, knew that I had never engaged in a MFH plot, then this guy shows up trying to get $10K from me to stay quiet, I think I would have been terrified.

Not because I was guilty but because here's someone whose behaviour shows him not to be law abiding. In fact, here's two someones whose behaviour proves they are not law abiding. I'd feel terrified because if I agreed, I'm smart enough to know that would implicate me. But if I turn them down flat, now they have reason to want to shut me up. If they are willing to blackmail me, might they be willing to shoot me?

Do I know if they are armed? Not unless they showed up for the meeting in Speedos!

I'd make some excuse to get to a phone in private and I'd call 911.

Huh.

Funny. From the available evidence, that is exactly what TMH did.

GrainneDhu
07-08-2010, 08:06 AM
If the landscaper cut to the chase and said I want $10K to keep quiet about the plot, I would stop the conversation and call the police too. So it really depends on how this all went down. But whatever she did/said, it was not enough to show guilt.

As far as the RO goes, I'm guessing whatever other stuff may be in there besides the murder-for-hire worries, it is the kind of stuff in most family RO's; so if it gets out, it gets out. I just wonder what could keep her from being able to see any of her children. I hope Kaine was not encouraged to add to the RO in any way, with allegations that could do this, if untrue.

BBM

One hopes not.

In my state, he would be very ill-advised to do so. Anyone can get a TRO out based on the allegations they make in the application process. The bar is pretty low because no one wants to bar a victim from whatever relief a RO would bring.

But anything alleged in the TRO application must be backed up with real evidence during the hearing. The target of a TRO does get their day in court, they do have a right to confront their accuser, they can present evidence for their side of the story.

Judges in my state really, really don't like it when petitioners make false allegations on TRO petitions. The consequences can include being assessed all court fees, being found in contempt of the court and jail time.

Even though there are powerful disincentives to lie on an application for a TRO, a few people do it.

That's how I know that judges don't like it.

believe09
07-08-2010, 08:08 AM
What makes anyone think that the landscaper was NOT wired? Did it say that somewhere? Because this looks like a sting gone wrong to me.... JMO.

This is the RO thread and we are of the opinion perhaps that the Landcaper's MFH claims figured into the divorce petition and RO, correct? I cant wait for it to be released....

GrainneDhu
07-08-2010, 08:16 AM
On the other hand...maybe they class the guy as credible whereas we know that Terri has reportedly had polygraphs that show her as being deceptive. Because shes now denying it..that doesnt mean the detectives necessarily find her credible and more to the point..what was said before she denied it...ie did the guy speak to her on the phone arrange to meet her...but then turn up with the cop? Also..ie were there any emails ever between the pair? Its a fact that the cops still believed this guy enough after " the sting" to tell Kaine to get him and his daughter out there.

MOO

Link to the two polygraphs showing deception?

I ask because the only link I'm aware of is:

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/landscaper_wore_wire_asked_ter.html

That article says:

Terri Horman has taken two polygraph tests, after authorities said a key answer on the first exam found her deceptive.

If it really is one answer (out of how many?) on two polygraphs, that's not exactly overwhelming evidence of anything.

captivagrl
07-08-2010, 08:18 AM
Good point--we haven't heard any objections from TH over the daughter being taken from her.

An innocent mother would speak out or at the very least file a motion to be heard regarding custody/visitation. Even parents that are accused of abuse/neglect are usually afforded at least 3 hours supervised visits with their children each week. It's in the best interest for the children in most cases. Unless the state feels that the children are in immediate danger or the parents are convicted of a very serious crime, the parents visit with their children. There are always exceptions, but that's my experience in Florida.

GrainneDhu
07-08-2010, 08:33 AM
It is interesting that on the divorce petition and the restraining order petition, there is no attorney named. Where the attorney name should be is Terri Horman, as defendent and attorney.

It just means that at the time the petitions was filed, the petitioner did not have TMH's lawyer's name. That could mean that TMH had no lawyer or it could mean that the petitioner didn't know the name.

Aedrys
07-08-2010, 08:46 AM
Or maybe she got mad and called 911. I've known people that if you dare try to accuse them or betray them, they will do things like call the police to make the point that it's a bad idea to accuse them of anything or betray them in any way. Yes, some people call 911 when they are scared, and some people know how to use the system to get back at someone as well.

IMO, she called 911 to make it look like she was a scared, innocent woman. For all we know because we don't know all the details, she was just po'd and wanted on record what was happening around her. Or she freaked out because she did know this landscaper and figured calling 911 was good way to make her not look guilty.

I'm just saying that calling 911 doesn't mean a person is scared for their life. I've followed plenty of cases where calling 911 was a setup for an alibi or the person showed fake emotion to make themselves look innocent.

Some people call 911 because they are truly afraid. Some people call 911 to be deceptive and make themselves look innocent. And some people call 911 because Subway didn't give them the sandwich they wanted. A lot of calling 911 these days is not about a real emergency.

And honestly, she wasn't in any real danger. They left. They didn't physically assault her or give her any reason to be afraid. She was the one who shut down the conversation. There is nothing to suggest that anything got out of control. Yes, it was startling what they did, but I wouldn't rise that to a level of an emergency unless she knew the guy and didn't want to get into trouble. Not one of the three times was she in any real danger. If she called 911, IMO, she did it to cover herself

But, I will admit I could be wrong. Once we finally hear those tapes, we'll know for sure.

Calliope
07-08-2010, 09:48 AM
Or maybe she got mad and called 911. I've known people that if you dare try to accuse them or betray them, they will do things like call the police to make the point that it's a bad idea to accuse them of anything or betray them in any way. Yes, some people call 911 when they are scared, and some people know how to use the system to get back at someone as well.

IMO, she called 911 to make it look like she was a scared, innocent woman. For all we know because we don't know all the details, she was just po'd and wanted on record what was happening around her. Or she freaked out because she did know this landscaper and figured calling 911 was good way to make her not look guilty.

I'm just saying that calling 911 doesn't mean a person is scared for their life. I've followed plenty of cases where calling 911 was a setup for an alibi or the person showed fake emotion to make themselves look innocent.

Some people call 911 because they are truly afraid. Some people call 911 to be deceptive and make themselves look innocent. And some people call 911 because Subway didn't give them the sandwich they wanted. A lot of calling 911 these days is not about a real emergency.

And honestly, she wasn't in any real danger. They left. They didn't physically assault her or give her any reason to be afraid. She was the one who shut down the conversation. There is nothing to suggest that anything got out of control. Yes, it was startling what they did, but I wouldn't rise that to a level of an emergency unless she knew the guy and didn't want to get into trouble. Not one of the three times was she in any real danger. If she called 911, IMO, she did it to cover herself

But, I will admit I could be wrong. Once we finally hear those tapes, we'll know for sure.

bbm

How do you know? Or, how do you know she didn't feel she was in danger?

Aedrys
07-08-2010, 09:53 AM
bbm

How do you know? Or, how do you know she didn't feel she was in danger?

That's the problem, and I admit, I don't know. I just know from my own experience and following criminal cases for a long time that not everyone who calls 911 thinks they are in immediate danger. Plus, there was nothing about anyone holding a gun to her or immediately threatening her life as far as I know. Doesn't mean she couldn't be scared, but IMO, she was not an in any immediate bodily harm and neither was Baby K that would have made it necessary to call 911. But again, I don't know for sure. None of us will know until we actually get to hear those calls.

Wrinkles
07-08-2010, 10:00 AM
Growl... I just wrote up something an managed to blow it away... One more time...

From OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/judge_seals_restraining_order.html)
>>A summary of the order filed in court shows the judge allowed no parenting time for Terri Moulton Horman. The restraining order also restricts her from possessing firearms, a routine step in these proceedings.<<

"no parenting time" ... Maybe Terri had no choice on asking for this according to the RO.

Looking at this document identified as "INSTRUCTIONS – OBTAINING A FAPA RESTRAINING ORDER": (http://www.oregon.gov/Deschutes/docs/forms/restraint/InstrucsOBTAIN-6-08.pdf?ga=t)

>>Will A Hearing Be Scheduled?

In a few cases, the judge may wait to make a custody order and will set a hearing to get more information about the children from you and the respondent. You must go to that hearing or the order will probably be dismissed (dropped).

Otherwise, the respondent has 30 days from the date of service to request a hearing. If the respondent does not request a hearing, the restraining order will stay in effect.

If the respondent does request a hearing, it will be held very quickly.<<

Seems to me that a) judge scheduled the hearing -- but wouldn't sooner rather than later be reasonable?? OR b) Terri could request a hearing. IF the judge scheduled one, this may be hidden in the RO. IF he did not, it seems that media might be camped out and watching for Terri to go to the court to ask for a hearing.

I'd say that we could watch for a hearing on this...

NOW THEN for the "firearms" thing. It has been reported:
>>A summary of the order filed in court shows the judge allowed no parenting time for Terri Moulton Horman. The restraining order also restricts her from possessing firearms, a routine step in these proceedings. (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/judge_seals_restraining_order.html)<<

and

>>The restraining order was sealed by Multnomah County Circuit Judge Keith Meisenheimer, who handles family law. However, the abuse prevent petition showed that Terri was not granted any time with their daughter and restricted from accessing firearms. The no firearms clause was routine in such cases, a court clerk said. (http://www.kgw.com/news/Second-grade-student-missing-from-Skyline-Elementary-95670454.html)<<

I'm kinda blown away that IF someone takes out a restraining order on me that I would have to get rid of my possession of all firearms. IF I live on a property such as the Horman's have, I would want to have a firearm. I may be perfectly okay with being restrained from someone else under a certain set of circumstances, but if someone breaches my "No Trespassing" sign OR if an animal arrives on my property that I feel endangers me, I want a firearm. SO, is this really "routine" to deny the possession of firearms due to an RO?

Finally...it takes me to the original point I wanted to attack. Do we know that on the day of the sting, Terri didn't meet those on her property with a double barreled shotgun in her hands? (and with someone at the front door holding another one?) If she showed up with nothing, just "lalala, yes, what did you want to see me for?" and got a surprise asking for 10K or I will go to the police, perhaps she was terrified. On the other hand, what if she didn't? Could this be why the firearms thing was put in the RO? Or did Kaine have an idea of what might be expected about firearms due to past conversations with Terri?

We know about the sting to "some" extent. We don't know all about it. We don't know the content of the 9-1-1 call, we don't know if she said, "I don't know who just came through my gates, but I have No Trespassing signs up -- please get over here, I think this could be a threat."

Donjeta
07-08-2010, 10:04 AM
Well, I'm pretty sure she wasn't in any immediate bodily danger from an undercover LE officer and a wired individual who were present.

What she may have thought I can't say. If she thought she was being set up I'm sure she was scared but not of being subjected to violence. If she didn't know they were trying to set her up, she may have thought they had come to demand money like they said, and that sort of thing is usually accompanied with a slight undertone or "or else" which might scare her.

It's not just bodily harm that people may be scared of.

Calliope
07-08-2010, 10:07 AM
That's the problem, and I admit, I don't know. I just know from my own experience and following criminal cases for a long time that not everyone who calls 911 thinks they are in immediate danger. But again, I don't know for sure. None of us will know until we actually get to hear those calls.

From what I understand, the first call was about a threat from someone in a truck (?). The way it's reported, it doesn't seem to be connected to the other 2 calls. I have no idea what the threat was, but given the way she's been crucified online and in the press, and how her address and photos of her home (including aerial shots) have been put out there, I can only imagine. I'm surprised she's still in that house, especially with it being so secluded and set back from the road.

As far as call #2, GrainneDhu's post above makes a lot of sense; I know I'd feel I was in danger regardless of my guilt or innocence involving Kyron.

Call #3? If she thought her child had been taken illegally by Kaine, I can see her calling 911. I'd like to know what happened prior to the call that made her believe he wasn't returning with baby K.

Donjeta
07-08-2010, 10:09 AM
Wait, where did the third call come from? I thought there were two.

Calliope
07-08-2010, 10:12 AM
Wait, where did the third call come from? I thought there were two.

It's being reported now there were 3. One about someone threatening her. The second being the 'sting'. And a third later that evening regarding the custody issue (Kaine taking baby).

ETA Ruby's post on the 911 thread:

One source said the first call made by Terri came in as a Priority Three call at 5:18 p.m. and was about someone in a truck threatening her.

Moments later Terri made the second call and said a man wanted $10,000. But there was no explanation given for why he wanted it

The third call came in at 11:39 p.m. and was about a child custody issue. A source said Terri reported that Kaine packed up and took their 19-month-old daughter at 1:30 in the afternoon.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/97989739.html

Mylou
07-08-2010, 10:13 AM
I keep asking myself what would I do, if I were guilty of trying to hire someone, and then they show up at my door asking for hush money. I really don't know if I would call 911 or not, Id be afraid to call I think. I find this part rather intriguing because I really don't know what I'd do. If I were innocent, Id probably call 911 especially if I had no idea what the heck he was talking about. If I had felt threatened from this person in the past Id definately call 911.

PDXMom
07-08-2010, 11:39 AM
This is really weird. If I were innocent, the first thing I would do if someone pulled up & demanded money is call 911. If I were guilty.....and dissociated the entire nasty business of wanting my husband dead, I would call 911. If I were guilty and not at the top of my game...well, I guess I'd hesitate to call in case I were somehow associated with the LS. I wonder if the LS or the UC noted any acknowledgement of recognition on Terri's part when the LS showed up. Circumstantial, yes, but motivation to keep pursuing that lead.

helpfulcharlie
07-08-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm kinda blown away that IF someone takes out a restraining order on me that I would have to get rid of my possession of all firearms. IF I live on a property such as the Horman's have, I would want to have a firearm. I may be perfectly okay with being restrained from someone else under a certain set of circumstances, but if someone breaches my "No Trespassing" sign OR if an animal arrives on my property that I feel endangers me, I want a firearm. SO, is this really "routine" to deny the possession of firearms due to an RO?

There's a dang good reason for that practice, and it's kind of standard. Because too many times, a battered woman has taken out a restraining order on the batterer, and he retaliates by putting bullets into her.

The law says better safe than sorry.

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 11:48 AM
If I was Terri, i think I would I call 911 anytime someone approached my house these days, she has a legitimate right to fear for her life. I've seen what some of the whackos are saying about her on other boards. I'd have 911 on speed dial and feel free to use it, as I might feel that the police put me in this spot, of being afraid for my life.

PDXMom
07-08-2010, 12:05 PM
If I was Terri, i think I would I call 911 anytime someone approached my house these days, she has a legitimate right to fear for her life. I've seen what some of the whackos are saying about her on other boards. I'd have 911 on speed dial and feel free to use it, as I might feel that the police put me in this spot, of being afraid for my life.

That's a very good point, Cluciano. She's not a popular lady in this town lately. So maybe she was ready to call 911 on anyone who trespassed at that point.

manybooks
07-08-2010, 12:17 PM
I know they do it different in the movies & in TV shows, where the guy wears a wire & the suspect talks & it gets recorded, and the suspect gets convicted on the basis of a recorded conversation. But that's not how it's done in reality.

I'm sure they made the decision for some reason, but I must respectfully disagree. I was on a jury and convicted a meth dealer with a wire taped conversation as one of the biggest pieces of evidence.

Kimster
07-08-2010, 01:02 PM
We have a couple of threads discussing the same issues. I am going to close this one. If you would like me to move posts to the other thread, send me a link and I'll scoot them on over.

Here's the other thread that is open: Source: Police were ready to arrest Terri re: plot/sting gone wrong - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community