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View Full Version : Why Doesn't LE or Parents Call for Kyron to be released in a safe place?



cluciano63
07-08-2010, 02:28 PM
I know that many posters feel that Kyron could be being held someplace, for a variety of reasons, motives, etc...

And even if LE does not truly believe this to be a reasonable scenario, why wouldn't they at least publicly address the kidnapper/holder/accomplice/whatever to take Kyron to a safe place and drop him off? This just happened with the little girl in the car wash, although as far as I know, not at LE's request. Still, it would be one more thing to try. If a person is holding Kyron, at this point they are likely to be frantic, not knowing what to do, not expecting it to last this long, etc...so why not ask for his safe, anonymous release? Why aren't the parents offering this advice to the captor, if they truly believe Kyron is alive?
Plus, by doing this, it would show that they are not only focused on Terri Horman but are truly examining all options.

matou
07-08-2010, 02:35 PM
I agree. It doesn't seem like TH has Kyron, even if she is indirectly or directly involved. Someone else must have him, if he is still alive. Since the rest of the family believes Kyron is still alive, they should be appealing to whoever has Kyron to let him go. This is just another frustrating aspect of this whole case. JMO

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 02:47 PM
It is clear that TH does not have Kyron and it is also pretty clear she is not responding to the pleas of the other parents to "cooperate fully." So if they think she is involved, they should be sending out their pleas directly to the other person and giving them some alternatives as to how to return Kyron safely.

Paintr
07-08-2010, 03:00 PM
I agree. It doesn't seem like TH has Kyron, even if she is indirectly or directly involved. Someone else must have him, if he is still alive. Since the rest of the family believes Kyron is still alive, they should be appealing to whoever has Kyron to let him go. This is just another frustrating aspect of this whole case. JMO


ITA! If I were a parent in such a position, heaven forbid, regardless of my personal opinion of Terri, I would be pleading to an unknown perp just in case I was wrong.

Let's just say for a moment that Terri is innocent in Kyron's disappearance, then there is a perp out there who may still be holding Kyron alive. If Terri is responsible then there is an accomplice out there who may just need an appeal to change their mind.

I truly don't understand this case.:waitasec:

RoughlyCollie
07-08-2010, 03:04 PM
The only rational reason I can think of is that LE knows who has him and that person will be too afraid to leave any clues with Kyron including geographic vicinity. Along with this, LE knows this person is an associate of TH.

Why no Amber Alert, though? Maybe LE knows perp did not use his own car & doesn't know how perp traveled to wherever s/he is.


Or attempt to get ransom was messed up & LE awaiting contact.

Etilema
07-08-2010, 03:09 PM
And the only pleas we have heard to the public have been to LOOK for Kyron, even on one's own property! That doesn't sound like they think he's being held. It sounds more like they think he was either stashed somewhere (so he could be trapped or hidden on someone's property) or left to wander around, heaven forbid.

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 03:16 PM
I think a plea from LE would work in their favor if only to show that they are not only looking at Terri. A defense attorney down the line might be able to show that Terri was the only focus from the beginning.

And if someone is holding Kyron for Terri or for some other reason...it could work. It's not like they seem to have a boatload of solid evidence at this point, they should not be ruling anything out. They claim to still want tips.

adh74
07-08-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't think it would work, really. Whoever has him would probably be fearful that Kyron would be able to identify them. Kyron isn't a toddler. He's an eight year old. 8 year olds remember silly little (identifying) details and can be quite articulate. And Kyron would have been with them for a MONTH. That's plenty of time for Kyron to pick up identifiable details about the person/people who have him and their location, vehicles, etc.

Perhaps if they can ever arrest TH, they could appeal to her accomplice publicly with promises of lesser/minimal charges being filed in exchange for his safe return. I'm not totally sold on that idea though, as it is possible that whoever has him may have done horrible things to him, that should not go unpunished. But if all they've done is keep him in a basement and feed him a couple times a day...then I might be okay with minimal charges against them in exchange for his (relatively) safe return.

Hmmm...I wonder if they might ever offer TH a deal. Tell us who has him and assist us in getting him back, and we'll minimize the charges against you. I guess that is something for TH's defense attorney to work out though.

CASH
07-08-2010, 03:21 PM
One possible reason why they haven't issue pleas to some third party who is involved is that they don't want to reveal that they suspect there is a third party. All that a third party would know at this point is that: 1) everyone is convinced TH did something to Kyron and 2) TH isn't talking to anyone. This should leave the third party feeling relatively secure at this point.

Paintr
07-08-2010, 03:23 PM
One possible reason why they haven't issue pleas to some third party who is involved is that they don't want to reveal that they suspect there is a third party. All that third party would know at this point is that: 1) everyone is convince TH did something to Kyron and 2) TH isn't talking to anyone. This should leave the third party feeling relatively secure at this point.

Good point! I am convinced that LE is working hard behind the scenes on this case. But I am not convinced that all that hard work is aimed at proving Terri is the perp.

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 03:26 PM
But if they think a third party has him...are they just going to wait for Terri to talk? I just can't see not exhausting all options if they don't know what is really going on. It makes me think they don't believe he is alive...yet a week ago, LE comes out saying they are assuming he is since they have no proof he isn't. So I still don't see why they would not, at least in a PC, say, 'if anyone does have Kyron, and has been caring for him these past weeks, it's time to bring him to a safe drop-off point so that he can be reunited with his parents."

LaceSprocket
07-08-2010, 03:40 PM
Great questions!

Why no call to the "perpetrators" to release Kyron - whoever that may be? Why not? Staton has told us that "everyone is a person of interest." So if "everyone" is a person of interest, why not appeal to "everyone" to release him?

*crickets*

Well, let's start with the contradictions, shall we?

In this article from July 3th, Sheriff Staton says there's no threat to the general public:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_horman_investigation_tra.html

"Jung: "What else could you say to reassure the public that this truly is not a serial, that there isn't a general public threat considering there's no evidence one way or the other it sounds like?"

Staton:"What I would tell you right at this point is that if I was led to believe during the course of this investigation that this was an issue that parents needed to be concerned with, the school districts needed to be concerned with, that our law enforcement community needed to be concerned with, you'd be hearing that from me right now sitting at this table that we have got a situation and everybody needs to be aware of it and we need to start building in the appropriate precautions."

OK, if that's true, then that explains why there was no Amber Alert issued. One criteria is the belief that a call-to-the-public would help assist in locating Kyron. I guess they didn't think this fit the criteria, right? Let's take a look:

http://www.crimealert.state.mn.us/AmberAlert/AA_HowItWorks.asp

"The Amber Plan requires law enforcement to meet two criteria when evaluating a non-family child abduction. Police departments must have both parts of the scenario present before an activation can occur. The guidelines are as follows:

The Amber Plan should be activated when a child 17 years of age or younger is abducted and there is reason to believe the victim is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death.

AND…

There is information available to disseminate to the general public, which could assist with the safe recovery of the victim and/or the apprehension of the suspect."

OK, so they don't issue an Amber Alert. Did they suspect that this was a "family related" abduction? They didn't think Kyron was in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death? Guess not, right? The public can relax, right?

Well, how come 3 days later, Sheriff Staton says "Everyone is a person of interest."

Wait a minute. If "everyone is a person of interest," doesn't that mean there is a threat to the general public? I know, I know - I'm playing with semantics here, so please don't bash me. :blushing: But if we are reasonable persons, we must follow that logic... thus:

If they have no real suspects, if they're not going to arrest Terri, if they are still searching for Kyron as if he were alive, if they are still considering a possible "stranger" abduction............

Why haven't they asked the perp(s) to release Kyron? Why hasn't anyone - parents, LE, people close to the family - appealed to "whoever" has Kyron to let him go? Drop him off somewhere? Safe?

Like I said, I know I'm playing with semantics and splitting hairs. But this truly is a contradiction of words and I find it rather alarming. :innocent:

adh74
07-08-2010, 03:41 PM
But if they think a third party has him...are they just going to wait for Terri to talk? I just can't see not exhausting all options if they don't know what is really going on. It makes me think they don't believe he is alive...yet a week ago, LE comes out saying they are assuming he is since they have no proof he isn't. So I still don't see why they would not, at least in a PC, say, 'if anyone does have Kyron, and has been caring for him these past weeks, it's time to bring him to a safe drop-off point so that he can be reunited with his parents."

I doubt they are just sitting around waiting for TH to talk. I'm sure they are also actively trying to find the poor boy, dead or alive. If they really do have reason to believe he is still alive, I'm sure they are doing all they can to track him down. They were able to find the landscaper, right? They may have also located other potential hitmen or kidnapping accomplices as well. My personal theory is that KH's brother (who is also a SO) may have helped TH find someone to sell Kyron to. If so, they may be working with him to track down potential accomplices. But they just aren't telling the public about it. They have kept 99% of this investigation close to the vest from the very beginning. We have no clue what they may or may not REALLY know about where Kyron might be. Think about it....they apparently knew about the landscaper for some time. Yet all of us on this board were FLOORED when that little tidbit of information came out. How do we know they aren't keeping other bombshells under wraps?

CarmelEyesD
07-08-2010, 03:47 PM
Well, by 'pointing' everyone at Terri, releasing just enough info to keep her in the public eye and everyone thinks she is guilty, no one is asking questions about any other info, any other perp, or any other direction the investigation is taking. This works for LE-Terri is their 'red herring'.

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 03:51 PM
And yet...they have not found Kyron, no matter how slick they are behind the scenes...

RoughlyCollie
07-08-2010, 04:12 PM
Well, by 'pointing' everyone at Terri, releasing just enough info to keep her in the public eye and everyone thinks she is guilty, no one is asking questions about any other info, any other perp, or any other direction the investigation is taking. This works for LE-Terri is their 'red herring'.

I disagree. That would be so plainly immoral & unethical & cruel, I don't think LE would do it on purpose.

RoughlyCollie
07-08-2010, 04:14 PM
And yet...they have not found Kyron, no matter how slick they are behind the scenes...

Guess they need more evidence/leads -- they can't manufacture what they don't have, b/c that won't help them find Kyron..

mrsu
07-08-2010, 04:25 PM
Does anyone truly think LE KNOWS who has Kyron? I seriously doubt it. If they did, I believe they would go get him so they could get on with the case. I doubt that they would leave him "missing" just so they could wait for TH to incriminate herself. That doesn't make any sense to me.

On a side thought...I remember DY mentioning that Kyron is scared and pretty much blind without his glasses. If someone DID have him, depending how bad his eyesight really is, it's possible that he may NOT recognize the person, unless by voice, etc.

WHERE IS THIS BOY???? This is driving me crazy!!

CarmelEyesD
07-08-2010, 04:41 PM
I disagree. That would be so plainly immoral & unethical & cruel, I don't think LE would do it on purpose.


Didn't say they did it on purpose. But it seems to be working out that way for them....

Aedrys
07-08-2010, 04:46 PM
Or it could be they're afraid if they do plea for Kyron to be dropped off at a safe place, he might be dropped off dead rather than alive. People who are willing to kidnap children are also willing to kill them to keep their identity a secret. And if they knew who had Kyron and where he was, they'd be getting a SWAT team together to go get him. No way are they just going to let him be missing to make TH talk.

RoughlyCollie
07-08-2010, 04:53 PM
Does anyone truly think LE KNOWS who has Kyron? WHERE IS THIS BOY???? This is driving me crazy!!

I don't think LE knows where K is, if he is alive, who has him (if anyone) or how he got there. By knows, I mean based on proof, not theories, gut feelings, statistics, or inferences from circumstantial or less than reliable evidence.

I think it is possible that LE has K's glasses, or a part that may be from them.

tabacue
07-08-2010, 04:55 PM
Does anyone truly think LE KNOWS who has Kyron? I seriously doubt it. If they did, I believe they would go get him so they could get on with the case. I doubt that they would leave him "missing" just so they could wait for TH to incriminate herself. That doesn't make any sense to me.


You make a great point. LE would definitely not leave him "missing" if they knew where he was. I think we get so lost in trying so hard to figure this out that the obvious is slipping away.

RoughlyCollie
07-08-2010, 05:10 PM
Didn't say they did it on purpose. But it seems to be working out that way for them....

I'm sorry, I misinterpreted what you meant due to projection of my own thoughts onto you:

I was worried LE did it on purpose, with or without TH's permission, especially if she is innocent. Talked to a highly experienced defense attny who said no way based on his many dealings with LE including FBI.

This attny has had clients who have done very dangerous work for FBI for a long time, even for years, so they could have long sentences significantly reduced. These clients were factually guilty tho and this was part of plea bargaining & clients insisted on being confidential informants working undercover, no matter what attny advised. So they were not in TH's position at all.

I'd be just as furious if LE did this thru incompetence instead of by design, if it turns out TH is innocent.

Again, I'm sorry for misinterpreting your words & for jumping to conclusions about what you meant.

RC

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 05:16 PM
I'm not sure how this got onto Le keeping Kyron hidden for some murky reason...I am pretty sure they have no clue where Kyron is and that's why I don't understand why no one is pleading for him to be dropped off safely. If someone has him, they might not have any idea how to end this.

2goldfish
07-08-2010, 05:21 PM
I am beginning to have the sickening feeling that they dont do these things because they have reason to belive kyron is gone :(

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 05:24 PM
I am beginning to have the sickening feeling that they dont do these things because they have reason to belive kyron is gone :(

Personally I think he is too....but they say they don't believe he is gone and keep asking for tips...or do they only want tips that help them charge Terri?
That is what it is starting to seem like to me...

But who knows, maybe Kaine and/or Desiree will do this tonight, when they speak...ask for Kyron to be taken to a safe place...

GrainneDhu
07-08-2010, 06:10 PM
I know that many posters feel that Kyron could be being held someplace, for a variety of reasons, motives, etc...

And even if LE does not truly believe this to be a reasonable scenario, why wouldn't they at least publicly address the kidnapper/holder/accomplice/whatever to take Kyron to a safe place and drop him off? This just happened with the little girl in the car wash, although as far as I know, not at LE's request. Still, it would be one more thing to try. If a person is holding Kyron, at this point they are likely to be frantic, not knowing what to do, not expecting it to last this long, etc...so why not ask for his safe, anonymous release? Why aren't the parents offering this advice to the captor, if they truly believe Kyron is alive?
Plus, by doing this, it would show that they are not only focused on Terri Horman but are truly examining all options.

Offering someone a safe, anonymous way out of a major crime is just not done. For good reason. It is not good public policy to let potential perpetrators think that if they hold onto a victim long enough, they can get out of punishment. That would be akin to hanging a "Free Victim" sign over the head of every child in the US.

Plus, I seriously doubt it would affect the outcome in any way. Public pleas by LE or family has never produced results so far, there's no reason to think they will this time either. If just seeing DY's appearances haven't done it already, nothing will.

Finally, I think there's a good chance Kyron is dead. That his body has not yet been found may imply that the perpetrator is getting off on a sense of power from watching all the commotion. No reason to feed this person's sickness even more fodder.

Plus, there's a risk that appealing in that way might actually egg on the perpetrator and cause greater harm. For example, it certainly seemed like the DC snipers (as was thought at the time) escalated with every statement directed to them.

believe09
07-08-2010, 07:25 PM
You got me thinking, Grannie...what if the original intent of this was just a stunt (I know we already have a thread on this) to try and make herself a hero? I mean, she moved into Desiree's house and began parenting Kyron and I am sure so many people gave her strokes for that....then along came the baby, and lots of strokes for that...18 mos is just about the right time where the oos and ahhs were dying away.

So maybe they are not appealing to the public for his return simply because they believe they know who spirited him away and they are asking the right questions of that person?

cluciano63
07-08-2010, 07:28 PM
If the parents think Terri did something with/to Kyron and yet think he is alive, then they must think he is with someone...he is not with her. So why not appeal to that person, when speaking out? Terri clearly (to me) is not going to "crack."

Kat
07-08-2010, 08:11 PM
JMHO but LE hasn't publicly asked that Kyron be dropped off at a safe place because they don't believe that's possible. (He's deceased).

IMHO I don't know if Kaine thinks that his son is still alive. I'm sure that he hopes, and wants to believe with all of his heart and soul that there is a chance that he is, no matter what LE might have told him so far.

IMHO Desiree can only believe at this point in time that Kyron is alive. She wouldn't be able to function if she thought otherwise JMHO. Her strident statement ( saying it as if it were fact) IMHO means that she has to believe that he is alive.

JMHO, the very fact that they are not openly asking for Kyron to be dropped off at a safe location shows to me that there is a possible struggle between their heart and soul and their minds. Right now the heart and soul are winning and Kyron is alive within their hearts.

When parents are in this much agony, this much anxiety and grief at not having their child with them (not the grief of death but the grief of that child's conditon being unknown) we can't apply logic and reason to their behavior. I have seen parents act in very VERY strange ways after being informed that their child has actually died. I give Kaine and Desiree a lot of space because of those personal experiences. JMHO.

Just my humble opinion.