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RubyRed
07-08-2010, 09:35 PM
http://media.oregonlive.com/oregonian/photo/-f0567dab122075a6_custom_665xauto.jpg




"I've known her a long time. I know she's lying," Young said. "Terri is still not cooperating. I'm so angry, I don’t have words."

http://www.kptv.com/news/24190899/detail.html

Kimster
07-08-2010, 11:19 PM
I think many of us were very astute when we watched the first family presser and recognized DY's body language to be saying she didn't want TH to touch her....

My other comment that I mentioned in the closed thread is that women know women but men don't know women.

Barry
07-08-2010, 11:26 PM
I guess the question in my mind is, is she lying about trying to have her husband killed, about Kyron missing, or both? DY may sense she's lying, but still not know about what. (of course she might have a lot more info than we do).

gardeness
07-08-2010, 11:30 PM
It doesn't make sense to me--if DY knows what a liar TH is, why did she let so much time pass before taking action for her son? They waited how long before their first press conference? I am just not fully believing her judgment right now--MOO. IMO, since LE has no other leads and is apparently making no effort to find anyone else, the parents HAVE to believe that it's TH.

I do think that DY blamed TH for Kyron's disappearance from the beginning, though--not in a "she kidnapped him" way, blamed her in a "she was responsible for my son and she failed him" kind of way.

easttexas
07-08-2010, 11:32 PM
I think many of us were very astute when we watched the first family presser and recognized DY's body language to be saying she didn't want TH to touch her....

My other comment that I mentioned in the closed thread is that women know women but men don't know women.

Kimster.....you are soooo right. Women can read other women like an xray. Men can have the xray and see nothing.....good comment!

Noway
07-08-2010, 11:35 PM
What a nightmare it must be for them to know she is lying ... and not be able to get her to tell the truth.

JenB
07-08-2010, 11:38 PM
I recently had a situation where I realized someone was lying to me (or omitting important info and trying to skew the situation to their advantage). I realized it not because they've lied to me before, but because I know how they would normally react in this situation. In my case, the outrage the other party normally would have expressed was absent, and I realized she was trying to hide information from me.

I can imagine DY and KH coming to similar realizations about Terri. From the first phone call, some normal, expected reaction or mannerism of Terri's was different. Even if she'd never lied to either other party before, that "off" moment coupled with failed lie detector tests and, inevitably, more "off" reactions or mannerisms would make for a "sort of surprised and sort of not" response to where the case is now.

Clearly these people have been gobsmacked to realize the person they've trusted for all this time is probably involved in Kyron's disappearance. They are reviewing everything they've ever "known" in light of this new information. That's why KH can't make a clear statement about how the relationship was between Terri and Kyron.

As far as DY allowing someone to raise her child who she didn't completely trust (as I saw implied in the other thread), I think that's unfair. She said she's been biting her tongue, basically. I'd imagine I'd be biting my tongue a lot if I was sharing my kids with a stepmom. And while I might not care for the stepmom as a person, that's a far cry from believing she'd actually harm my child.

Aedrys
07-08-2010, 11:39 PM
It doesn't make sense to me--if DY knows what a liar TH is, why did she let so much time pass before taking action for her son? They waited how long before their first press conference? I am just not fully believing her judgment right now--MOO. IMO, since LE has no other leads and is apparently making no effort to find anyone else, the parents HAVE to believe that it's TH.

I do think that DY blamed TH for Kyron's disappearance from the beginning, though--not in a "she kidnapped him" way, blamed her in a "she was responsible for my son and she failed him" kind of way.

They were doing what LE told them to do. I'd rather not have had this turn into Jerry Springer with DY beating TH until she said where Kyron was. I'd rather not have her in the news every two seconds like the A's, making a fool of herself and Kyron being forgotten in the process. I applaud them for keeping quiet and working for LE. They have done what they need to do, and they and LE know a heck of a lot more than we do right now. I think her judgment is solid. She knows what she's doing is the right thing to do and she knows that TH did something to Kyron. Rather than making this tabloid fodder, She and Kaine and Tony have chosen to be the bigger people here and do the right things for Kyron. I admire both of their strength and tenacity, and if DY says TH is a liar, then I wholeheartedly believe her.

And we don't know that LE is not making an effort to find other people. Until it comes out for a fact that the only person they are centering on is TH, I am not going to assume they are singleminded and just trying to railroad TH. Sometimes something is what it is, and there's no massive conspiracy.

BTW, I think it's more - "I know the bi*** hurt him and I wish I could make her tell me where he is". I think this goes beyond Terri just failing Kyron.

bessie
07-08-2010, 11:40 PM
I hope this is on topic because I just spent a long time typing this reply in the other thread, only to find it was closed when I went to post. :banghead: ;)

After watching the press conference, I can't help but wonder if DH's natural resentment toward the woman who has raised her child, and any resentment toward KH she's harbored over the years, have clouded her judgment.

Most of us have been in a situation where we suffered an offense or a tragedy and found ourselves accusing a person we disliked because we wanted to blame someone, and blaming the individual we didn't like to begin with affirmed our ill-feelings toward that person. It allowed us to say that we were right about him or her all along. I saw this happen in my own family when a loved one died and a sibling turned against the loved one's spouse and tried to convince others that the spouse was responsible for the death. It's a reaction some experience from the fear and anger that come with grief. Could that be the case with DY? If so, I don't blame her at all. In her shoes, God knows what I'd be thinking and feeling.

Now the alleged murder-for-hire, if true, would certainly be enough to convince KH. But that aside, I wonder if DY hasn't overstated her case to the point that she has convinced KH, and to a degree, LE. KH indicated he was caught off guard by the M-for-H plot and didn't think TH capable of harming Kyron, but now, the guilt that he is no doubt feeling could cause him to be easily swayed. I imagine him saying to DY, "Yes, you're right. I should've seen it."

I mean absolutely no disrespect to the parents. My heart bleeds for them. I only want this darling little boy to be found and the truth to be revealed. And I'm troubled that LE might be putting all of their eggs in one basket, based in part on DY's "instincts", which might or might not be accurate at the moment. Of course, the parents are at a disadvantage with the public because they are limited in what they can say, but I'd sure love to know if TH has exhibited rash behavior in the past that would support DY's suspicions.

babycat
07-08-2010, 11:42 PM
It doesn't make sense to me--if DY knows what a liar TH is, why did she let so much time pass before taking action for her son? They waited how long before their first press conference? I am just not fully believing her judgment right now--MOO. IMO, since LE has no other leads and is apparently making no effort to find anyone else, the parents HAVE to believe that it's TH.

I do think that DY blamed TH for Kyron's disappearance from the beginning, though--not in a "she kidnapped him" way, blamed her in a "she was responsible for my son and she failed him" kind of way.

Maybe she suspected it at first, but then really "knew" in her gut that Terri was lying after spending more time with her. And many families don't just come out right away and say that they feel a certain person is involved in a loved ones disappearance...It could be LE asked her not to publicly speculate as to not tip her off at first.

For all we know she "took action" in private, with LE or Kaine. We just don't know.

I don't know if Terri is involved or not. But I certainly don't suspect that Desiree would lie about whether or not she initially trusted or suspected Terri. What good would it server her to lie about how she feels about Terri?

matou
07-08-2010, 11:42 PM
I wonder if Terri and Desiree got into it about something in the days before Kyron went missing. I`m suspicious about the fact that Kyron was supposed to visit with his mom on that weekend and then all of a sudden he`s gone. Desiree was instantly suspicious of her, from her comments on the presser.

From tonight`s presser, Desiree stated that she`s known Terri for a long time. Didn`t she previously clear up the fact that she was NOT FRIENDS with Terri when Kyron was born:waitasec: I thinks there is confusion about them being friends or knowing each other for a long time.

redkatrampant
07-08-2010, 11:43 PM
They were doing what LE told them to do. I'd rather not have had this turn into Jerry Springer with DY beating TH until she said where Kyron was. I'd rather not have her in the news every two seconds like the A's, making a fool of herself and Kyron being forgotten in the process. I applaud them for keeping quiet and working for LE. They have done what they need to do, and they and LE know a heck of a lot more than we do right now. I think her judgment is solid. She knows what she's doing is the right thing to do and she knows that TH did something to Kyron. Rather than making this tabloid fodder, She and Kaine and Tony have chosen to be the bigger people here and do the right things for Kyron. I admire both of their strength and tenacity, and if DY says TH is a liar, then I wholeheartedly believe her.

And we don't know that LE is not making an effort to find other people. Until it comes out for a fact that the only person they are centering on is TH, I am not going to assume they are singleminded and just trying to railroad TH. Sometimes something is what it is, and there's no massive conspiracy.

BTW, I think it's more - "I know the bi*** hurt him and I wish I could make her tell me where he is". I think this goes beyond Terri just failing Kyron.

DY also made it a point to say that she did not want to elaborate on certain things because she did not want all the dirty laundry out there when Kyron came home. She stated that she did not want everything muddied with a lot of untrue statements.
I know I paraphrased what she said, but that was the gist of it. I applaud her for that.First and foremost in her mind is Kyron.

Emma Peel
07-08-2010, 11:44 PM
I guess the question in my mind is, is she lying about trying to have her husband killed, about Kyron missing, or both? DY may sense she's lying, but still not know about what. (of course she might have a lot more info than we do).

IMO,

DY knows Terri is lying about Kyron. She hopes there is an accomplice, that is taking care of Kyron. She even said she had an instinct about Terri when she got the call about Kyron.

The rest - the garbage with Kaine - is just more proof for Desiree, that Terri is using Kyron as a weapon against Kaine.

And maybe even against Desiree.

mrsjonnob
07-08-2010, 11:48 PM
There is no way she can "know it". She can stongly suspect and believe it, but she can't know it, unless there is proof or Terri confesses.

Noway
07-09-2010, 12:01 AM
Did I not just read that Kaine believed Terri was involved and that was based on LE believing the same?

p. 11/19
http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/e/1/2/e12f2287-ce0b-48e0-8d85-e3955216ae1b/FULLORDER.pdf

I believe Respondent is involved in the disappearance of my son Kyron who has been mising since June 4, 2010. I also recently learned that Respondent attempted to hire someone to murder me. The police have provided me with probably cause to believe the above two statements are true.

(typed by me ... tried to be exact but have to dash ...)

Noway
07-09-2010, 12:08 AM
If the police believe it, and they are the ones with the evidence ... it would be pretty hard not to believe it too ... especially if the police shared that info with Kaine and either he shared it with DY or the police did.

bessie
07-09-2010, 12:19 AM
They were doing what LE told them to do. I'd rather not have had this turn into Jerry Springer with DY beating TH until she said where Kyron was. I'd rather not have her in the news every two seconds like the A's, making a fool of herself and Kyron being forgotten in the process. I applaud them for keeping quiet and working for LE. They have done what they need to do, and they and LE know a heck of a lot more than we do right now. I think her judgment is solid. She knows what she's doing is the right thing to do and she knows that TH did something to Kyron. Rather than making this tabloid fodder, She and Kaine and Tony have chosen to be the bigger people here and do the right things for Kyron. I admire both of their strength and tenacity, and if DY says TH is a liar, then I wholeheartedly believe her.

And we don't know that LE is not making an effort to find other people. Until it comes out for a fact that the only person they are centering on is TH, I am not going to assume they are singleminded and just trying to railroad TH. Sometimes something is what it is, and there's no massive conspiracy.

BTW, I think it's more - "I know the bi*** hurt him and I wish I could make her tell me where he is". I think this goes beyond Terri just failing Kyron.
That's an excellent statement, Aedrys. The part I bolded particularly addresses my concerns, and though I'm not totally convinced, I am somewhat reassured by the strength of your convictions. In other words, I hope you're right.

babycat
07-09-2010, 12:20 AM
If the police believe it, and they are the ones with the evidence ... it would be pretty hard not to believe it too ... especially if the police shared that info with Kaine and either he shared it with DY or the police did.


The police have been wrong before. They aren't infallible. I agree, though, and even though a little of me suspects TH had something to do with it, I have to admit, based on the "evidence" against her so far (and I use the term loosely) I haven't seen anything concrete that points exclusively to her. Lots of weird stuff adding up, but obviously it's not even enough to arrest her (so far). I'm just confused.



I do trust that they work hard, and are privy to more information than we are...I just hope it is all on the RIGHT track, whatever that may be.

shefner
07-09-2010, 12:22 AM
I hope this is on topic because I just spent a long time typing this reply in the other thread, only to find it was closed when I went to post. :banghead: ;)

After watching the press conference, I can't help but wonder if DH's natural resentment toward the woman who has raised her child, and any resentment toward KH she's harbored over the years, have clouded her judgment.

Most of us have been in a situation where we suffered an offense or a tragedy and found ourselves wanting to accuse a person we disliked because we wanted to blame someone, and blaming the individual we didn't like to begin with affirmed our ill-feelings toward that person. It allowed us to say that we were right about him or her all along. I saw this happen in my own family when a loved one died and a sibling turned against the loved one's spouse, and tried to convince others that the spouse was responsible for the death. It's a reaction some experience from the anger that comes with grief. Could that be the case with DY? If so, I don't blame her at all. In her shoes, God knows what I'd be thinking and feeling.

Now the alleged murder-for-hire, if true, would certainly be enough to convince KH. But that aside, I wonder if DY hasn't overstated her case to the point that she has convinced KH, and to a degree, LE. KH indicated he was caught off guard by the M-for-H plot and didn't think TH capable of harming Kyron, but now, the guilt that he is no doubt feeling could cause him to be easily swayed. I imagine him saying to DY, "Yes, you're right. I should've seen it."

I mean absolutely no disrespect to the parents. My heart bleeds for them. I only want this darling little boy to be found and the truth to be revealed. And I'm troubled that LE might be putting all of their eggs in one basket, based in part on DY's "instincts", which might or might not be accurate at the moment. Of course, the parents are at a disadvantage with the public because they are limited in what they can say, but I'd sure love to know if TH has exhibited rash behavior in the past that would support DY's suspicions.

I included this quote because I think this post is right on target. I never could have said it so well. Thanks Bessie....

Emma Peel
07-09-2010, 12:28 AM
IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri.

As a result, and as part of the strategy, I think both Desiree and Kaine have been to NPD school. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

I'm loving the new, aggressive Desiree. This attitude is one way to work with NPD. No more nice guy - relentless attack, calling-out, naming fault, naming flaws, placing blame, in-your-face, finger-pointing, no excuses, no wiggle room, pounding on wrong-doings, no forgiveness, negating the imagined self, denying a relationship ever even existed, denying trust or respect ever existed.

And Kaine - withdrawn and closed. I wonder if he is playing the "I couldn't give a crap about Terri" card. This is another way to work with NPD. Take all attention away. Refuse to give Terri's relationship with Kyron any credit whatsoever. (I don't know about her relationship with Kyron - ask Terri.) Shrug off her child rearing, shrug off her homemaking. Deny you noticed if she even had a relationship with the very child she's devoted the last 4 years to raising. Take everything that defines Terri and Terri's world, everything that identifies what Terri considers herself to be away, - no house, no children, no gym, no career. Stop the parasitic relationship. Force Terri to stand alone in vast nothingness and terrorize her into compliance so she can feed her endless need for any outside stimulus.

If Terri is NPD, as I suspect, she cannot be alone with herself. She would rather be in prison.

I feel like some of these answers were so awesome that the questions had to be anticipated and were highly scripted. (That is okay with me, by the way.)

IMO - much of this is FBI staged & ... it is still very very fascinating.

Not to mention, I'm sure Terri really is a big fat liar.

JMHO

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 12:35 AM
I am zero percent convinced that LE knows much more than we do. I think they told Kaine that: A. Terri failed LD B. That Terri's movements did not seem to match her cell phone
C. That Terri may have tried to hire someone to kill him

Those 3 things were enough for him to do what he has done, and enough to confirm Desiree's suspicions.
I think this is still where the case stands, meaning that LE cannot clear Terri so they have focused on her, trying to get either clear her or find enough to charge her, and they still have not been able to do either.

Desiree hearing that Terri failed the LD as well as the other two items are certainly enough, IMO, to warrant her thinking that Terri is at the very least, lying.

I hope I'm wrong about LE, but honestly I thought there would be an arrest by now in this case.

Emma Peel
07-09-2010, 12:37 AM
There is no way she can "know it". She can stongly suspect and believe it, but she can't know it, unless there is proof or Terri confesses.

I understand & agree with your point with regard to needing irrefutable facts before anyone can categorically know anything about Terri's involvement...

IMO, Desiree feels she "knows" in the intuitive sense of the word. She said as much.

I have been waiting for someone in this inside circle to admit the fact that they had signals, had issues, had experiences, had suspicions, and were not entirely comfortable with Terri the person before any of this happened.

We finally got this information out in public tonight at this presser. Desiree insinuated there had always been a problem with Terri and Kaine just stood there and let her do so.

IMO

gardeness
07-09-2010, 12:39 AM
Is it not a given that the time to act after a child abduction is immediately? IMO, she initially blamed Terri for Kyron's disappearance because he was in her care. IMO, if something (an argument, etc.) had occurred between the women before that Friday, DY would have had no problem singling out TH.

No, I don't trust her judgment at this time. I feel for her--she is grasping at the only straw available.

I haven't seen a recent statement from LE--is there a link to a recent statement where they talk about following other leads? Thanks!

azmama
07-09-2010, 12:44 AM
I hope this is on topic because I just spent a long time typing this reply in the other thread, only to find it was closed when I went to post. :banghead: ;)

After watching the press conference, I can't help but wonder if DH's natural resentment toward the woman who has raised her child, and any resentment toward KH she's harbored over the years, have clouded her judgment.

Most of us have been in a situation where we suffered an offense or a tragedy and found ourselves wanting to accuse a person we disliked because we wanted to blame someone, and blaming the individual we didn't like to begin with affirmed our ill-feelings toward that person. It allowed us to say that we were right about him or her all along. I saw this happen in my own family when a loved one died and a sibling turned against the loved one's spouse, and tried to convince others that the spouse was responsible for the death. It's a reaction some experience from the anger that comes with grief. Could that be the case with DY? If so, I don't blame her at all. In her shoes, God knows what I'd be thinking and feeling.

Now the alleged murder-for-hire, if true, would certainly be enough to convince KH. But that aside, I wonder if DY hasn't overstated her case to the point that she has convinced KH, and to a degree, LE. KH indicated he was caught off guard by the M-for-H plot and didn't think TH capable of harming Kyron, but now, the guilt that he is no doubt feeling could cause him to be easily swayed. I imagine him saying to DY, "Yes, you're right. I should've seen it."

I mean absolutely no disrespect to the parents. My heart bleeds for them. I only want this darling little boy to be found and the truth to be revealed. And I'm troubled that LE might be putting all of their eggs in one basket, based in part on DY's "instincts", which might or might not be accurate at the moment. Of course, the parents are at a disadvantage with the public because they are limited in what they can say, but I'd sure love to know if TH has exhibited rash behavior in the past that would support DY's suspicions.

I want to say, great post! I agree almost totally. The BBM part above though, cops are supposed to be methodical, all work and investigation is done on evidence (sorry, the right words are not coming to me..) I guess what I am saying is that I don't think LE would be swayed solely on DY's instinct, their job is to investigate, not go on feeling alone.

mrsjonnob
07-09-2010, 12:56 AM
]If the police believe it, and they are the ones with the evidence[/B] ... it would be pretty hard not to believe it too ... especially if the police shared that info with Kaine and either he shared it with DY or the police did.

BBM

But the police do not have the evidence. If they did, Terri would be in jail.

lillygator
07-09-2010, 01:11 AM
I think many of us were very astute when we watched the first family presser and recognized DY's body language to be saying she didn't want TH to touch her....

My other comment that I mentioned in the closed thread is that women know women but men don't know women.

ugh I was reading and multi quoting through the closed thread......I feel bio mom had nothing to do with this, but now everyone is painting her a SAINT...please. My girls are 7 and 5 and have been with family for a week, I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm. I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children, and even for a short time and I got better, I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me. Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it.

DairyGirl
07-09-2010, 01:13 AM
Multnomah County Sheriff's Office has no comments regarding the July 8, 2010 Young/Horman press conferences - 07/08/10
There will be no comment from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office regarding the information reported during the Horman/Young July 8, 2010 press conferences. The information released in during these conferences did NOT come from the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office. This is an ongoing investigation.

There is no press conference scheduled.

The tip line is open, if there are tips or information related to the Kyron Horman missing person case please call the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office tip line at 503 261-2847. If someone believes they have had an actual sighting of Kyron Hormon call 911.
http://www.flashalert.net/news.html?id=1276&alert=1

shefner
07-09-2010, 01:15 AM
ugh I was reading and multi quoting through the closed thread......I feel bio mom had nothing to do with this, but now everyone is painting her a SAINT...please. My girls are 7 and 5 and have been with family for a week, I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm. I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children, and even for a short time and I got better, I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me. Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it.

I see things your way....

Emma Peel
07-09-2010, 01:18 AM
one more thought ...

Unless Terri's parents withdraw their support (or pass away), Terri may not hit rock bottom.

That concerns me.

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 01:19 AM
I was waiting for the MCSO to finally indicate that they were not endorsing the parents' statements to the press. I never thought they were and I still don't; I don't think they would say anything at all now if the parents had not talked about the lie detector test results, LE may have told them those results in order to let them know why they were looking at Terri, but I do not believe they gave them the green light to broadcast it.

xin
07-09-2010, 01:20 AM
one more thought ...

Unless Terri's parents withdraw their support (or pass away), Terri may not hit rock bottom.

That concerns me.

Yes, me too. Her family is a factor in this. Enablers it may seem.

mo
ADD: I agree that there is a good profiler helping, plus Desiree's serious intelligence really came through at this eve's appearance.

gardeness
07-09-2010, 01:23 AM
that's a pretty strong opinion, any evidence for feeling that she could "not be bothered?" regardless, this is based on how YOU think YOU would act. YOUR opinion? Or do you have some knowledge of Desiree you wish to share?


When I read a post that starts with, "I feel", I conclude that is an opinion---but do posters have to technically state IMO for every opinion?

xin
07-09-2010, 01:30 AM
When I read a post that starts with, "I feel", I conclude that is an opinion---but do posters have to technically state IMO for every opinion?

You are right. Sorry.

rosiebean
07-09-2010, 01:31 AM
BBM

But the police do not have the evidence. If they did, Terri would be in jail.
:waitasec:

So, LE had no evidence against Scott Peterson until Laci and her baby's bodies washed ashore? I seem to recall that it took four months for an arrest in that case...and I seem to recall that the physical evidence from the bodies had very little to do with his conviction (i.e., there was nothing to tie him to their murder, they were just evidence that they were, indeed, dead). I've seen many cases where LE had a lot of evidence but waited until they had the best case possible before moving to an arrest. Why do you think that because LE has not made an arrest that they have NO evidence whatsoever?

crocus
07-09-2010, 01:31 AM
Could there be any more threads started on this forum? Whew..........

bessie
07-09-2010, 01:35 AM
IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri.

As a result, and as part of the strategy, I think both Desiree and Kaine have been to NPD school. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

I'm loving the new, aggressive Desiree. This attitude is one way to work with NPD. No more nice guy - relentless attack, calling-out, naming fault, naming flaws, placing blame, in-your-face, finger-pointing, no excuses, no wiggle room, pounding on wrong-doings, no forgiveness, negating the imagined self, denying a relationship ever even existed, denying trust or respect ever existed.

And Kaine - withdrawn and closed. I wonder if he is playing the "I couldn't give a crap about Terri" card. This is another way to work with NPD. Take all attention away. Refuse to give Terri's relationship with Kyron any credit whatsoever. (I don't know about her relationship with Kyron - ask Terri.) Shrug off her child rearing, shrug off her homemaking. Deny you noticed if she even had a relationship with the very child she's devoted the last 4 years to raising. Take everything that defines Terri and Terri's world, everything that identifies what Terri considers herself to be away, - no house, no children, no gym, no career. Stop the parasitic relationship. Force Terri to stand alone in vast nothingness and terrorize her into compliance so she can feed her endless need for any outside stimulus.

If Terri is NPD, as I suspect, she cannot be alone with herself. She would rather be in prison.

I feel like some of these answers were so awesome that the questions had to be anticipated and were highly scripted. (That is okay with me, by the way.)

IMO - much of this is FBI staged & ... it is still very very fascinating.

Not to mention, I'm sure Terri really is a big fat liar.

JMHO
You hijacked my thoughts, Emma. Some of them, anyway. ;)

A calling-out was exactly what the press conference was meant to be, IMO. Placing Desiree and Kaine together sans Tony was no accident. Watching them, I was struck by what an attractive couple they make standing in solidarity against TH. I can imagine the effect that had on TH. Then KH deferring to DY and letting her take the lead, and DY expressing her anger and calling TH a liar and saying it was all "ridiculous". Wow. In a different situation, the sidelines would be crowded with spectators calling for a catfight. No, that was no accident.

gardeness
07-09-2010, 01:36 AM
You are right. Sorry.

No--I'm sorry---I only started posting the other day and was wondering! (and it took me a little while to figure out what "moo" was, lol!)

xin
07-09-2010, 01:38 AM
No--I'm sorry---I only started posting the other day and was wondering! (and it took me a little while to figure out what "moo" was, lol!)

You're doing fine. It's an emotional situation.
Usually these cases don't get me so down.

We all want the same thing!

gardeness
07-09-2010, 01:41 AM
You hijacked my thoughts, Emma. Some of them, anyway. ;)

A calling-out was exactly what the press conference was meant to be, IMO. Placing Desiree and Kaine together sans Tony was no accident. Watching them, I was struck by what an attractive couple they make standing in solidarity against TH. I can imagine the effect that had on TH. Then KH deferring to DY and letting her take the lead, and DY expressing her anger and calling TH a liar and saying it was all "ridiculous". Wow. In a different situation, the sidelines would be crowded with spectators calling for a catfight. No, that was no accident.

I am wondering if TH is watching the PCs--and, if her attorney would advise her to watch or not?

bessie
07-09-2010, 01:51 AM
I want to say, great post! I agree almost totally. The BBM part above though, cops are supposed to be methodical, all work and investigation is done on evidence (sorry, the right words are not coming to me..) I guess what I am saying is that I don't think LE would be swayed solely on DY's instinct, their job is to investigate, not go on feeling alone.
I agree, not solely. But little evidence and no leads pointing elsewhere could make LE lean more strongly toward her beliefs. It certainly wouldn't be the first time LE developed tunnel vision. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt since we know so little about what's happening behind the scenes.

xin
07-09-2010, 01:57 AM
I am wondering if TH is watching the PCs--and, if her attorney would advise her to watch or not?

For sure she is watching.


imo

bessie
07-09-2010, 01:58 AM
I am wondering if TH is watching the PCs--and, if her attorney would advise her to watch or not?
Her attorney might advise her not to watch, but I doubt that she'd comply. JMO

joeskidbeck
07-09-2010, 02:03 AM
You can bet her attorney is advising her not to watch. If she does, LE's new KH/DY strategy might just work and he does NOT want that!

mrsjonnob
07-09-2010, 02:05 AM
For sure she is watching.


imo
I agree.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was reading/posting online, but she is probably smart enough to know that Kaine or LE put a keystroke tracker/logger or other fancy "net nanny" on her computer.

xin
07-09-2010, 02:11 AM
I agree.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was reading/posting online, but she is probably smart enough to know that Kaine or LE put a keystroke tracker/logger or other fancy "net nanny" on her computer.

Detectives and media are watching her/us online, County LE guy said so last night on oregon public radio (there is a podcast of it). She was outed already by tv up there who tracked her IP and then announced. She is posting and they know it.


mo

Mylou
07-09-2010, 02:29 AM
My feelings watching this, was that they believe TH may know something and isn't forthcoming, but I have a hard time believing they believe she is responsible. It is the lack of anger for me. I don't see a whole lot of anger, looking for Kyron or even blaming TH.
I do believe a profiler is involved and perhaps guiding in a sense but also watching closely. I did feel that Kaine was very sincere tonight, that has been a first for me since the beginning of this horrible tragedy.
Im just not seeing the anger Id expect to see, if they truly believed TH was responsible. Indirectly involved perhaps.I just don't see conviction in their statements about TH.

Emma Peel
07-09-2010, 02:33 AM
Her attorney is watching.

And I was thinking they are talking to her attorney as much as to her these days. One way for (LE) to wink-wink, nudge-nudge Houze.
(DP is not out of the question here - it's in your client's interest to cooperate...)

gardeness
07-09-2010, 02:36 AM
Detectives and media are watching her/us online, County LE guy said so last night on oregon public radio (there is a podcast of it). She was outed already by tv up there who tracked her IP and then announced. She is posting and they know it.


mo

They didn't confiscate her computer? Or, does she have to be an official POI for that? (KH said they've searched their home more than once).

WhyaDuck?
07-09-2010, 02:44 AM
They didn't confiscate her computer? Or, does she have to be an official POI for that? (KH said they've searched their home more than once).

AFAIK, there is no real designation as "official POI," and the label doesn't have any effect on what LE can do as long as they can convince a judge to sign a search and seizure warrant.

xin
07-09-2010, 02:47 AM
They didn't confiscate her computer? Or, does she have to be an official POI for that? (KH said they've searched their home more than once).


Don't know for sure. I do know that Intel type software guys have computers and tech gadgets all over the place. That's why I wondered about how many phones she has access to and how all family phones would be accounted for. If Kyron lived in Palo Alto, with a dad at Intel in SilVal, good chance he would also have a phone. Just sayin'...


IMO

(Add: we read her folks live* in Los Gatos, where lots of tech people live, so maybe her family is real wired too; it's a VERY wired area, so it's poss dad/mom have tech, certainly tech-savvy, careers. Technology is all over this thing.)

*correction, that she grew up in Los Gatos (NorCal, near SilVal, Stanford and UC Santa Cruz)

RoughlyCollie
07-09-2010, 02:52 AM
ugh I was reading and multi quoting through the closed thread......I feel bio mom had nothing to do with this, but now everyone is painting her a SAINT...please. My girls are 7 and 5 and have been with family for a week, I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm. I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children, and even for a short time and I got better, I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me. Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it.

"I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm."

You are concerned about yourself and how much you need your children, not about providing what your children need even though it makes you feel like you lost an arm.

Is this how you want that statement to be interpreted? I don't think so, and I don't interpret it that way, but it sure could be. I think you are communicating that you love your children so much that you would never deprive them of their mother, whom they adore, and of a loving family environment. Your children need you and love you, and you deeply love them and would do anything for them.

I get that. But your circumstances are a lot different than DY's are and have been, I think, based on what you said in your post.

"I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children."

Never say never, unless you have walked in another person's shoes.
You have never been a single mother with a very serious, life-threatening illness, have you?

I have been a married mother who had a very serious, life-threatening illness for several years. My kids were elementary school age during the year it took me to recover from two heart surgeries. I could not have taken care of them by myself, even if I had had only one toddler at home.

If I had been a divorced, single mother, I would have had to ask my ex-husband to take custody, or if he wouldn't do it, find someone else to take custody of my children.

"never would I give away my children"

I understand that you think this now -- in fact, so do I about my children. But I am not in DY's situation and never have been, and hope I never am.

Kyron was a toddler at the time. DY did not give him away on a street corner or on a whim. She gave him to his very own loving father because she could not take care of him. That must have been a very painful, but necessary, decision.

"I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me"

You sound like a mother who loves her children very much. I feel the way you do, but I've never been in a situation in which my children would be better off in their other parent's continued custodial care.

DY probably would have preferred that, but circumstances dictated otherwise. There are lots of sound reasons DY and KH could have decided that Kyron was better off if he continued to live with his Dad. None of those reasons are any of our business. I think we should give DY and KH the benefit of the doubt that this was done with Kyron's best interests in mind.

"Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it."

I think you are doing DY a great disservice here. She did not say any of this. She may have had concerns and discussed them with KH. She may have felt something was not right, but had no firm evidence to go on. She and TY may have been planning to try to get custody of Kyron, but didn't have time before he disappeared. Maybe there were no unresolved problems. We just don't know.

I have been a SM to two lovely girls. Their mother and I worked hard to get along and to see each others point of view for the girls' sake, but we did not like each other very much. The dislike had nothing to do with the way either of us treated the girls, and I met my former husband two years after his divorce was final, so there was no traumatic history in the past to factor in.

DY's son is also KH's son, and she had to try to get along with whoever KH had a relationship with, whether she liked them personally or not, if she wanted her son to have a close relationship with his loving father. The same goes for KH vis-a-vis DY and TY.

I cannot, from what I know, reasonably infer that DY suspected Kyron was being mistreated by TH, or that he was in fact being mistreated.

It is reasonable to opine that DY and TY had no idea that anything was wrong in the custodial household. KH lived in that household and he never expected anything bad to happen to Kyron. That they were blindsided by this means Kyron's parents and stepfather did not expect TH (whom they now suspect) to hurt Kyron.

I think I understand why you think some people think DY is a saint. I don't know her; all I can see is that she has an immense amount of grace under pressure during the absolutely worst time of her life, and this is not the first time she has suffered greatly. That doesn't make her a saint, but it doesn't make her a sinner either. It does, IMO, make her a person I admire, based on what I know.

gwenabob
07-09-2010, 02:57 AM
Thank you, RoughlyCollie. That was a very good post.

cocolafay
07-09-2010, 03:03 AM
I guess the question in my mind is, is she lying about trying to have her husband killed, about Kyron missing, or both? DY may sense she's lying, but still not know about what. (of course she might have a lot more info than we do). Thanks to all who posted on the presser. There were too many to thank personally. But this one says it very succintly. Others gave me the mood and feelings of both DY and KH. Just saw that thread was closed. (Hope this isn't OT here.) I'm so new and y'all are so awesome.



IMO

keeponsearching
07-09-2010, 08:42 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this..

I feel TH and DY were bumping heads. Do you guys think if TH did anything to Kyron it was because of DY? Also, I am very shocked that TH would do something, when Kyrons step dad is in police department.... Wouldn't she think that it would be a major case.
I would like to know what DY and DH know, then I might be persuaded. I'm still a a very high fence. I'm always wrong though..

lillygator
07-09-2010, 08:47 AM
"I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm."

You are concerned about yourself and how much you need your children, not about providing what your children need even though it makes you feel like you lost an arm.

Is this how you want that statement to be interpreted? I don't think so, and I don't interpret it that way, but it sure could be. I think you are communicating that you love your children so much that you would never deprive them of their mother, whom they adore, and of a loving family environment. Your children need you and love you, and you deeply love them and would do anything for them.

I get that. But your circumstances are a lot different than DY's are and have been, I think, based on what you said in your post.

"I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children."

Never say never, unless you have walked in another person's shoes.
You have never been a single mother with a very serious, life-threatening illness, have you?

I have been a married mother who had a very serious, life-threatening illness for several years. My kids were elementary school age during the year it took me to recover from two heart surgeries. I could not have taken care of them by myself, even if I had had only one toddler at home.

If I had been a divorced, single mother, I would have had to ask my ex-husband to take custody, or if he wouldn't do it, find someone else to take custody of my children.

"never would I give away my children"

I understand that you think this now -- in fact, so do I about my children. But I am not in DY's situation and never have been, and hope I never am.

Kyron was a toddler at the time. DY did not give him away on a street corner or on a whim. She gave him to his very own loving father because she could not take care of him. That must have been a very painful, but necessary, decision.

"I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me"

You sound like a mother who loves her children very much. I feel the way you do, but I've never been in a situation in which my children would be better off in their other parent's continued custodial care.

DY probably would have preferred that, but circumstances dictated otherwise. There are lots of sound reasons DY and KH could have decided that Kyron was better off if he continued to live with his Dad. None of those reasons are any of our business. I think we should give DY and KH the benefit of the doubt that this was done with Kyron's best interests in mind.

"Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it."

I think you are doing DY a great disservice here. She did not say any of this. She may have had concerns and discussed them with KH. She may have felt something was not right, but had no firm evidence to go on. She and TY may have been planning to try to get custody of Kyron, but didn't have time before he disappeared. Maybe there were no unresolved problems. We just don't know.

I have been a SM to two lovely girls. Their mother and I worked hard to get along and to see each others point of view for the girls' sake, but we did not like each other very much. The dislike had nothing to do with the way either of us treated the girls, and I met my former husband two years after his divorce was final, so there was no traumatic history in the past to factor in.

DY's son is also KH's son, and she had to try to get along with whoever KH had a relationship with, whether she liked them personally or not, if she wanted her son to have a close relationship with his loving father. The same goes for KH vis-a-vis DY and TY.

I cannot, from what I know, reasonably infer that DY suspected Kyron was being mistreated by TH, or that he was in fact being mistreated.

It is reasonable to opine that DY and TY had no idea that anything was wrong in the custodial household. KH lived in that household and he never expected anything bad to happen to Kyron. That they were blindsided by this means Kyron's parents and stepfather did not expect TH (whom they now suspect) to hurt Kyron.

I think I understand why you think some people think DY is a saint. I don't know her; all I can see is that she has an immense amount of grace under pressure during the absolutely worst time of her life, and this is not the first time she has suffered greatly. That doesn't make her a saint, but it doesn't make her a sinner either. It does, IMO, make her a person I admire, based on what I know.
nope, haven't been in her situation nor do I hope to be, but I maintain my thoughts as you can have yours. She is no saint to me and I don't feel she should be painted as one.

Blondie in Spokane
07-09-2010, 09:03 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this..

I feel TH and DY were bumping heads. Do you guys think if TH did anything to Kyron it was because of DY? Also, I am very shocked that TH would do something, when Kyrons step dad is in police department.... Wouldn't she think that it would be a major case.
I would like to know what DY and DH know, then I might be persuaded. I'm still a a very high fence. I'm always wrong though..

That was one of my first thoughts when I heard step dad was a detective - if she did this it takes a lot of nerve because he certainly would be asking a lot of questions. I feel that TH really thought she had all the angles covered by Kyron turning up "missing" while at school. And I doubt she ever expected this to explode to this extent.....or all of this media coverage and scrutiny.

Edited to Add: I fell over the fence this past week!

RubyRed
07-09-2010, 10:26 AM
Kyron Horman's Father Says 'Small' Chance of Wife Being Innocent


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/kyron-hormans-father-chance-wife-innocent/story?id=11124144

DY says TH hasn't told the truth for the 7 and a half years she has known her

This short video of KH and DY talking to ABC is worth watching.

ElizaAvalon
07-09-2010, 10:30 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this..

I feel TH and DY were bumping heads. Do you guys think if TH did anything to Kyron it was because of DY? Also, I am very shocked that TH would do something, when Kyrons step dad is in police department.... Wouldn't she think that it would be a major case.
I would like to know what DY and DH know, then I might be persuaded. I'm still a a very high fence. I'm always wrong though..

Yes. I believe Terri wanted Desiree out of her life because of jealousy. It's the common denominator.

She wanted to off Kaine.

She has something to do with Kyron missing.

What do Kaine and Kyron have in common?

DESIREE.

Etilema
07-09-2010, 10:32 AM
I recently had a situation where I realized someone was lying to me (or omitting important info and trying to skew the situation to their advantage). I realized it not because they've lied to me before, but because I know how they would normally react in this situation. In my case, the outrage the other party normally would have expressed was absent, and I realized she was trying to hide information from me.

I can imagine DY and KH coming to similar realizations about Terri. From the first phone call, some normal, expected reaction or mannerism of Terri's was different. Even if she'd never lied to either other party before, that "off" moment coupled with failed lie detector tests and, inevitably, more "off" reactions or mannerisms would make for a "sort of surprised and sort of not" response to where the case is now.

Clearly these people have been gobsmacked to realize the person they've trusted for all this time is probably involved in Kyron's disappearance. They are reviewing everything they've ever "known" in light of this new information. That's why KH can't make a clear statement about how the relationship was between Terri and Kyron.

I would have thought something similar, except that on Good Morning America today, DY said that TH has lied for the "seven and a half years that I've known her". That was very telling.

ETA: That doesn't mean they wouldn't have been gobsmacked, anyway. It's a far leap from someone tending to lie to someone carrying out plots to murder or kidnap a family member.

ella971
07-09-2010, 10:39 AM
I want to say that T killed K. MOO. We have seen many cases with no evidence. LE is on it. We will have justice for K. I'm just telling what I really think. I do not want to offend any one. I'm just angry and sick of our children being hurt.I do not care what the reason for her or any one else would be. Our children are the most important thing in this whole world.This beautiful little boy is gone. That is all that matters.

Mylou
07-09-2010, 10:40 AM
Interesting developments, and my brain is trying to take it all in.
Desiree says Terri hasn't been honest for 7 1/2 years, yet they had a happy blended family? In a previous interview Kaine says that everything was normal until Kyron didn't get off the bus. I can only imagine what else will come next.
It's beginning to sound like a whole lot of dysfunction going on.
Im wondering through all this media attention, where is Kyron's face ?
Im seeing alot of faces but Im not seeing Kyron's.

Etilema
07-09-2010, 10:40 AM
I was waiting for the MCSO to finally indicate that they were not endorsing the parents' statements to the press. I never thought they were and I still don't; I don't think they would say anything at all now if the parents had not talked about the lie detector test results, LE may have told them those results in order to let them know why they were looking at Terri, but I do not believe they gave them the green light to broadcast it.

In the video interview, KH said that the info about TH failing the lie detector tests came directly from TH. He said she was very vocal about having done so and offered many reasons as to why it might have been.

Etilema
07-09-2010, 10:42 AM
Im wondering through all this media attention, where is Kyron's face ?
Im seeing alot of faces but Im not seeing Kyron's.

I saw him on KH's shirt. I looked at him there while they were describing Kyron's smile. KH has been wearing that shirt every day.

Boo Scout
07-09-2010, 11:41 AM
nope, haven't been in her situation nor do I hope to be, but I maintain my thoughts as you can have yours. She is no saint to me and I don't feel she should be painted as one.

I just have to chime in on this...I do not think that DY or KH are being painted as saints - that is a strong statement.

Yes, based on the press conference yesterday and other public appearances, sentiment seems to say that DY is a class act, handling herself well, articulate, etc.

But I have seen many, many posts right here on WS questioning her past actions and her current actions...so I don't think everyone believes it's black and white - TH as enemy, DY as saint. I strongly believe we're capable of more in-depth analysis than that.

That said, I think there are few of us who would say DY or KH have been perfect parents.

But I do see genuine grief in her, and I do see her handling it well, and I give DY a lot of credit for that.

I stand behind "To Kill a Mockingbird" about never really understanding a person until you walk a mile in their shoes.

MOO!

CCup
07-09-2010, 12:16 PM
ugh I was reading and multi quoting through the closed thread......I feel bio mom had nothing to do with this, but now everyone is painting her a SAINT...please. My girls are 7 and 5 and have been with family for a week, I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm. I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children, and even for a short time and I got better, I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me. Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it.

nope, haven't been in her situation nor do I hope to be, but I maintain my thoughts as you can have yours. She is no saint to me and I don't feel she should be painted as one.

I am also going to weigh in here....

I would also like to think that if I fell ill I would be able to care for children, But in reality there are things that parents have to do for themselves to better the lives of their children. Maybe Desiree wanted to take Kyron to Canada with her, but Kaine wouldn't let her take Kyron out of the country.

How do you know that Desiree never complained before? We don't know what circumstances kept Kyron with Kaine. We also don't know the full custody agreement between these two parents or how they arrived at it.

Where was it stated that Desiree felt her son was being badly treated?

I thinking judging the decisions that someone made when they were sick with a life threatening disease is completely unnecessary. Each one of us could say what we think we would do in her position, but none of us truly know what we would do in that position.

I just keep thinking that if I had a life threatening disease, I would give my children to my ex (if I had one) if it meant that I could give all I had to fighting the disease. I also keep thinking if I didn't fight the disease and lost my life, who would care for my children then? I would rather give up my kids to fight for my life, then selfishly hold onto them and lose my life.

lillygator
07-09-2010, 12:47 PM
Interesting developments, and my brain is trying to take it all in.
Desiree says Terri hasn't been honest for 7 1/2 years, yet they had a happy blended family? In a previous interview Kaine says that everything was normal until Kyron didn't get off the bus. I can only imagine what else will come next.
It's beginning to sound like a whole lot of dysfunction going on.
Im wondering through all this media attention, where is Kyron's face ?
Im seeing alot of faces but Im not seeing Kyron's.

So was everyone lying in the beginning? Was it not a happy family?
Is LE the one telling the mom and dad to release these tid bits of the family life? As nosey as I am, I really don’t think that is keeping Kyron on the front burner and why do we need to know her medical history?

lillygator
07-09-2010, 12:49 PM
ccup - I am not judging the decision made during her illness, that is understandable....the years after, well, a different story.

As this drags on, I really fear that the police does not have much more to go on??? IDK...

keeponsearching
07-09-2010, 01:02 PM
Wow for DY saying TH has been lying for all these years makes me 100 percent sure they didn't like each other. And if you don't like someone you mainly don't talk nice about them. Its so hard for me.... I want to be on the same page as most of you and feel Terri has done something.. I am just not there.

Tiki
07-09-2010, 01:05 PM
I had a feeling TH was involved from the beginning.

DY must be pretty positive about TH - saying on TV and to the press that she is lying.
I think TY and KH and TY, LE, FBI know much more than we do.
I think DY is smart enough to know that stating, in public, someone is a liar could get her sued for slander.

I doubt she really cares about that now, tho'.
I feel her anger and frustration at TH.

I sat up and took notice when she said in last night's presser that Kyron's "somewhere in Oregon" - then added he could be anywhere in any state. I thought it was odd to say "in Oregon" first.

I hope she knows something we don't and that someone has Kyron, that he's alive and will come home.
moo


.

Angel4u2Whisper2
07-09-2010, 01:15 PM
"I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm."

You are concerned about yourself and how much you need your children, not about providing what your children need even though it makes you feel like you lost an arm.

Is this how you want that statement to be interpreted? I don't think so, and I don't interpret it that way, but it sure could be. I think you are communicating that you love your children so much that you would never deprive them of their mother, whom they adore, and of a loving family environment. Your children need you and love you, and you deeply love them and would do anything for them.

I get that. But your circumstances are a lot different than DY's are and have been, I think, based on what you said in your post.

Respecfully snipped for space. Thank you so much for your post. I felt your compassion and heart in your words. I agree. Sometimes having someone you love with all your soul means making choices that benefit them no matter how much it hurts you. Thanks again.

Donjeta
07-09-2010, 01:18 PM
It is not just the mother's decision which home a child will stay. She may not have been medically or financially able to resume custody of Kyron right away and after a child has settled into a routine, started school, got friends etc. the court may not want to change it just because the mom prefers it that way.

Also, she said in the Tony and Desiree presser that she's been doing a lot of driving back and forth to be there at special events outside her weekend visits, and she may have felt that if she was more willing or able to do these extra things Kaine having custody of Kyron may eventually give him more contact with both his parents than Desiree having him most of the time.

mountaintime
07-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Just a quick comment about being ill with little ones....
When I was terribly ill with Lupus, I could not have cared for my children had my husband not been there to take over.
There were days when I could not get out of bed ( and thought I might possibly die that very day).
If I had been alone....probably they would have been with my sister or mother...or husband had we been separated...with anyone I knew would take good care of them and love them.
Because I simply could not have done it - and knew that if I tried to keep them with me, they would have been neglected and in danger.

It is difficult to imagine how terrible and helpless one is in a situation like that unless you have experienced it.

78gidget78
07-09-2010, 01:39 PM
I think Desiree simply did what she felt was best for her son not for herself. clearly kyron is very close with his father and no matter how you slice it he is one very loved little boy. I believe she may well have wanted him to be with her all the time, but felt that not uprooting him and taking him away from his loving father was not necessarily what was best for him even though it would make her feel better. So she did all she could, Desiree stated how involved she is, going to sporting events etc and making the trip up and back in the same evening in order just to let her son know how important he is. Also, just because she may not have liked Terri, that doesn't mean she would necessarily have any reason whatsoever to believe she could hurt her son. The two could easily have despised each other, yet still loved Kyron dearly. I think as parents, we all have to do things that are best for our children regardless of what it does to/for ourselves. I don't think this in any way makes Desiree a saint, I think it simply makes her a Mom.

MOO

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 01:45 PM
If you all haven't watched this video yet, (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6661870n&tag=related;photovideo) you might want to.

Let's see, within it...(and I could be corrected on the exacts, maybe someone has done a transcript)...

Points:
* Kaine believes Terri is involved in Kyron's dissapperance because she is not telling the truth.
* Terri walked out halfway through her first lie detector test. She was given a second chance by the police, then delayed for well over a week before taking the second one -- failed it. Big sign.
* Desiree says, "You don't fail a polygraph twice if you're not guilty"
* Desiree can tell you what she ate the day Kyron went missing and Terri can't tell you where she was.
* There were no financial problems in the family
* As far as Kaine knows there were no affairs in the family

I'm listening again...but those were the main points i heard in this that I hadn't heard in others.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 01:54 PM
* In the early days of the investigation, Kaine and Desiree passed polygraphs, they claim Terri did not.
* Desiree harbored suspicions from the day Kyron went missing on June 4th
* She had feelings from the minute she got the phone call, "I thought, she better not have done anything to my son."
* Were you and Terri having money problems, "No."
* Kaine was asked, "Were either of you involved with anyone else?" He responded with, "Not that I'm aware of"

Black Frost
07-09-2010, 01:56 PM
I think Desiree simply did what she felt was best for her son not for herself. clearly kyron is very close with his father and no matter how you slice it he is one very loved little boy. I believe she may well have wanted him to be with her all the time, but felt that not uprooting him and taking him away from his loving father was not necessarily what was best for him even though it would make her feel better. So she did all she could, Desiree stated how involved she is, going to sporting events etc and making the trip up and back in the same evening in order just to let her son know how important he is. Also, just because she may not have liked Terri, that doesn't mean she would necessarily have any reason whatsoever to believe she could hurt her son. The two could easily have despised each other, yet still loved Kyron dearly. I think as parents, we all have to do things that are best for our children regardless of what it does to/for ourselves. I don't think this in any way makes Desiree a saint, I think it simply makes her a Mom.

MOO

Very well said.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 01:56 PM
From this page: (http://topics.oregonlive.com/tag/kyron%20horman/index.html)
"Honestly my motherly instinct kicked in and I said that she better not have done anything to my son, because it just didn't feel right about the conversation. It didn't strike me right," said Desiree Young, Kyron's mother.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 02:09 PM
From this page: (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/09/father-missing-oregon-boy-suspects-stepmom/)

>>He said his wife didn't tell him she was depressed, but "vented" to friends, including Desiree Young, Kyron's mother.<<

>>Kaine Horman said his wife has twice failed a polygraph test during the investigation into Kyron's disappearance. She shared the news of the failed tests with "a room full of people," he said Thursday.

"She would vent about the failure, talk about what she failed on, go into great detail about how she felt about it, and that happened multiple times," he said.<<

Hmmmmmm...

>>"I've known her a long time," Young said. "I know she's lying."

Young, who lives in Medford with her husband, said Terri Horman's explanation after the boy's disappearance didn't add up.

"There are just some things in there that didn't sit well with me, and it just didn't sound right," Young told The AP. "I'm very familiar with that school and there were just some things that I knew couldn't be correct."<<

Hmmmmm...

JSR
07-09-2010, 02:17 PM
From this page: (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/09/father-missing-oregon-boy-suspects-stepmom/)

>>He said his wife didn't tell him she was depressed, but "vented" to friends, including Desiree Young, Kyron's mother.<<

>>Kaine Horman said his wife has twice failed a polygraph test during the investigation into Kyron's disappearance. She shared the news of the failed tests with "a room full of people," he said Thursday.

"She would vent about the failure, talk about what she failed on, go into great detail about how she felt about it, and that happened multiple times," he said.<<

Hmmmmmm...

>>"I've known her a long time," Young said. "I know she's lying."

Young, who lives in Medford with her husband, said Terri Horman's explanation after the boy's disappearance didn't add up.

"There are just some things in there that didn't sit well with me, and it just didn't sound right," Young told The AP. "I'm very familiar with that school and there were just some things that I knew couldn't be correct."<<

Hmmmmm...

I also thought it was odd that Terri had the school secretary call Desiree and tell her Kyron was missing instead of calling herself.

That's odd. And a cold thing to do. If I was Terri I would have called Desiree myself.

gliving
07-09-2010, 02:29 PM
I also thought it was odd that Terri had the school secretary call Desiree and tell her Kyron was missing instead of calling herself.

That's odd. And a cold thing to do. If I was Terri I would have called Desiree myself.

I thought Kaine should be the one to call Desiree. Why Terri? :waitasec:

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 02:30 PM
Good BeanE has transcribed one of the important videos...

You can read the text here

Not the least of that which of note, but this one was important:

>>At first it started out with something doesn't feel right. I don't feel right about this. And then each time, something would come up, something was said, a feeling I got, you know, it just reinforced it and I would discuss that with them, and this and this and this and this, and before I realized it and, you know, once, I would say once we found out the second polygraph was failed, we both I think kinda turned to the other side more than we were previous and, and I gotta tell you never in a million years could have imagined the horrible truth of what we know now. I mean just... this is the stuff you write in novels. It's not our life. I mean, it's just a little boy, you know. I just don't understand it. (cries)<<

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 02:45 PM
No telling how the phone call situation came about, Kaine could have frantically been looking for his son with other school officials. He may have asked Terri to call or they both asked the secretary to call while they were running around shouting Kyron's name. It is hard to be managing a telephone call when you are running around screaming a child's name looking for them.

JSR
07-09-2010, 02:46 PM
I thought Kaine should be the one to call Desiree. Why Terri? :waitasec:

Either one should have called her. But we don't know if Kaine was busy still trying to find out information. But it is odd that Terri wouldn't call Desiree herself. She had a school employee call her. It's a really impersonal way to tell someone their child is missing.

xin
07-09-2010, 02:49 PM
Either one should have called her. But we don't know if Kaine was busy still trying to find out information. But it is odd that Terri wouldn't call Desiree herself. She had a school employee call her. It's a really impersonal way to tell someone their child is missing.

Kyron's FATHER should have called.

mo

mountaintime
07-09-2010, 02:51 PM
No telling how the phone call situation came about, Kaine could have frantically been looking for his son with other school officials. He may have asked Terri to call or they both asked the secretary to call while they were running around shouting Kyron's name. It is hard to be managing a telephone call when you are running around screaming a child's name looking for them.

Can you imagine....?

I think after I had run everywhere looking for my child,talked to EVERYone, begged the police to find him... I would then have to have been sedated.

grandmaj
07-09-2010, 03:04 PM
KNOCK OFF THE RUMORS NOW... I'm going to start deleting posts with rumors in them.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 03:08 PM
IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri.

As a result, and as part of the strategy, I think both Desiree and Kaine have been to NPD school. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

--- snipped ---
JMHO

Emma Emma Emma...excellent post, the entirety of the above, i.e. from which I have quoted just a small bit.

I'm thinking we will soon have to have another big NPD thread here like we had to have in some of the other cases. I've been smelling NPD for a while now...

Just how might NPD factor into the body language that we saw at the first press conference? That struck me immediately... I'd love to have someone who is hugely trained in reading the body language step in and inform us, but in the meanwhile...

I've watched the video a bit, over and over... I saw Desiree's recoiling, but I keep watching Terri and asking myself, what were the things that sent up my "lying behavior" feelers. There was the droopy face (that looked like bad acting, let's see, is this how I make my mouth looked turned down?). There was the "oh let me rest my poor sad face on your chest" (then I can hide half of it and people won't necessarily see what a bad actress I am, and maybe they will think that my putting my face on your chest shows true sadness). Wasn't there some tissue time too? Like "Oh Scarlet...I'm so so sad yo pecan pie didn't turn out so perky."

In the midst of watching that video I noticed Kaine's hand was up on Terri's shoulder, near her neck. At first I thought, "Is that a comforting he is doing?" Now I'm almost thinking that was a type of posturing to let her think he was in support, while "keeping her" in tow.

Kaine, Desiree, Tony, the officers must all have felt a hugely strong "lying spirit" -- it must have been really difficult to take.

Donjeta
07-09-2010, 03:14 PM
This struck me as important when viewing the video (from BeanE's transcription above)

Reporter asks Kaine if there were ever any red flags from Terri before he was briefed by LE on the info he now knows.

Kaine: I'd say most of the time since it, since that day.

Desiree: Yeah. Yeah. Each and every day it was something else that I (stumbles on words)

Reporter asks can you elaborate on what that something else was.

Kaine: Just her be..., it's just her behavior.

Desiree: Behavior. Behavior. Things that were said.

Kaine: Things that we would be doing. We would be working with investigators. We would be doing everything that we could and just in the natural course of our actions she'd just was separating herself, I don't think purposely but it was just apparent that the three of us were driving to find him and she was not.

sarah7855
07-09-2010, 04:13 PM
ugh I was reading and multi quoting through the closed thread......I feel bio mom had nothing to do with this, but now everyone is painting her a SAINT...please. My girls are 7 and 5 and have been with family for a week, I miss them so much I feel like I lost an arm. I DO NOT CARE how sick I am, never would I give away my children, and even for a short time and I got better, I would have been fighting tooth and nail for my children to be back with me. Bio mom never complained before, could she be bothered? If she felt a threat or her son was being treated badly, she NEVER did a thing about it.

In regard to the BBM portions above, just wow...a little harsh, IMO. Desiree has shown, with both her actions and her words, that she puts her son first. We are seeing now that she obviously isn't Terri's biggest fan (which I'm willing to bet is for good reason), but she put those differences aside and made their working relationship (as she calls it) work for the sake of her son. She seems selfless and courageous. She is a victim here and is in the worst possible situation that a parent could ever imagine and is handling herself with grace. I wish that I could just give her a huge hug and tell her that I'm sure that Kyron is so proud to have her as a Mommy.


I stand behind "To Kill a Mockingbird" about never really understanding a person until you walk a mile in their shoes. MOO!

Sometimes having someone you love with all your soul means making choices that benefit them no matter how much it hurts you. Thanks again.

RSBM for both of these; the thanks button wasn't enough, these are great words that are worth repeating.

mchris1024
07-09-2010, 05:11 PM
I thought Kaine should be the one to call Desiree. Why Terri? :waitasec:

Agree, if something happened to one of my children I would call their father not expect my husband to do it for me.

Donjeta
07-09-2010, 05:17 PM
Kaine Horman said Terri Horman has since failed two polygraph tests. He said it was "a very negative experience and she had a lot of concerns about it" when she told him she failed.

"The first failure I think we were all concerned about, but it was the behavior immediately following and the build-up to the next one that all of us just found completely acceptable," Kaine Horman said.

Kyron's parents told CNN that Terri Horman seemed to focus on herself and how she felt instead of focusing on finding Kyron.

"We were all charging ahead and doing everything we can to find our son … we had someone who was not willing to do that," Kaine Horman said.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24197226/detail.html

Angel4u2Whisper2
07-09-2010, 05:18 PM
I understand why some feel that Kaine should of called Desiree but I can promise you one thing from my personal perspective. I would want to talk to the person who knows something..that would be Terri. The person that can answer my questions. Just my opinion. So maybe he could have been present they could call together? Dunno.
Either way we don't know if Kaine had every intention on calling her but Terri asked the school to contact Desiree? We just don't have enough information.

SoCalSleuth
07-09-2010, 05:23 PM
IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri.
JMHO

You nailed it.

Wrinkles
07-09-2010, 07:36 PM
This struck me as important when viewing the video (from BeanE's transcription above)

This article (http://www.kptv.com/news/24197226/detail.html) said something else important in my mind:

>>When CNN's reporter asked Young if there was any doubt in her mind that Terri Horman was involved, she replied, "No. I know she's involved."<<

Donjeta
07-09-2010, 08:01 PM
I understand why some feel that Kaine should of called Desiree but I can promise you one thing from my personal perspective. I would want to talk to the person who knows something..that would be Terri. The person that can answer my questions. Just my opinion. So maybe he could have been present they could call together? Dunno.
Either way we don't know if Kaine had every intention on calling her but Terri asked the school to contact Desiree? We just don't have enough information.

But how would DY know that TH knew more than KH? The school secretary doesn't seem to have given her anything but the basic info that Kyron was missing, based on how she described their conversation. IMO it is as reasonable to suppose that the school gave the details of a missing child to the father as the stepmother.

SleuthyGal
07-09-2010, 08:07 PM
DY believing TMH was involved in the disappearance but not telling us, the public, before now is totally fine. She told her thoughts to LE and the ones doing the investigation in the beginning. That's exactly as it should be!

Things told to the public don't impact the investigation itself--it's just a hungry and curious audience that wants to know what's going on, as is human nature. But DY owes us nothing--she doesn't have to tell us anything if she doesn't want to. She is helping LE in whatever way she can and that's the only thing that's important!

RubyRed
07-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Terri Moulton Horman, who Young says "likes to play the victim,


http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20400681,00.html?xid=rss-yahooheadlines

Jersey*Girl
07-09-2010, 08:08 PM
IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri.

As a result, and as part of the strategy, I think both Desiree and Kaine have been to NPD school. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

I'm loving the new, aggressive Desiree. This attitude is one way to work with NPD. No more nice guy - relentless attack, calling-out, naming fault, naming flaws, placing blame, in-your-face, finger-pointing, no excuses, no wiggle room, pounding on wrong-doings, no forgiveness, negating the imagined self, denying a relationship ever even existed, denying trust or respect ever existed.

And Kaine - withdrawn and closed. I wonder if he is playing the "I couldn't give a crap about Terri" card. This is another way to work with NPD. Take all attention away. Refuse to give Terri's relationship with Kyron any credit whatsoever. (I don't know about her relationship with Kyron - ask Terri.) Shrug off her child rearing, shrug off her homemaking. Deny you noticed if she even had a relationship with the very child she's devoted the last 4 years to raising. Take everything that defines Terri and Terri's world, everything that identifies what Terri considers herself to be away, - no house, no children, no gym, no career. Stop the parasitic relationship. Force Terri to stand alone in vast nothingness and terrorize her into compliance so she can feed her endless need for any outside stimulus.

If Terri is NPD, as I suspect, she cannot be alone with herself. She would rather be in prison.

I feel like some of these answers were so awesome that the questions had to be anticipated and were highly scripted. (That is okay with me, by the way.)

IMO - much of this is FBI staged & ... it is still very very fascinating.

Not to mention, I'm sure Terri really is a big fat liar.

JMHO

Emma, posts like your's above is the exact reason I keep coming back here. I love how you can so eloquently sum up exactly what's in my mind, yet I myself have been unable to put it into words. Thank you so very much. Hugs!

mysticrose
07-09-2010, 08:22 PM
Did you all see this:

Kaine Horman: Kyron’s Stepmom Walked Out on Polygraph (With Audio Clip)
4:59 PM July 9th, 2010 by

Kaine Horman, father of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, tells WW the missing boy’s stepmom walked out of her second polygraph test before investigators even began asking questions.

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night.

The stepmom, Terri Moulton Horman, is the focus of an investigation into Kyron’s June 4 disappearance from Skyline K-8 School. Investigators say she’s the last person known to have seen the boy.

As first reported in WW, Terri Moulton Horman took her first polygraph just days after Kyron’s disappearance. At a press conference Thursday evening, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, emphasized what had previously been reported — that Terri Moulton Horman had failed two polygraph tests.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/09/kaine-horman-kyrons-stepmom-walked-out-on-polygraph/

JSR
07-09-2010, 08:40 PM
I understand why some feel that Kaine should of called Desiree but I can promise you one thing from my personal perspective. I would want to talk to the person who knows something..that would be Terri. The person that can answer my questions. Just my opinion. So maybe he could have been present they could call together? Dunno.
Either way we don't know if Kaine had every intention on calling her but Terri asked the school to contact Desiree? We just don't have enough information.

Actually Kaine wasn't in the room only Terri was in the room. Sorry I can't attach a link but it was one of the verbal interviews where Desiree describes when she first learned of Kyron's disappearance.

She details that she asks the secretary if Kaine or Terri is there and the secretary says only Terri is here. So Desiree said she hung up and immediately called Terri to find out what happened.

Kaine probably should have been the one to call but if he wasn't there and asked Terri to call because he was trying to find out more info then Terri shouldn't have had the secretary call for her. That's odd. Really odd to me.

Tink56
07-09-2010, 08:40 PM
Did you all see this:

Kaine Horman: Kyron’s Stepmom Walked Out on Polygraph (With Audio Clip)
4:59 PM July 9th, 2010 by

Kaine Horman, father of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, tells WW the missing boy’s stepmom walked out of her second polygraph test before investigators even began asking questions.

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night.

The stepmom, Terri Moulton Horman, is the focus of an investigation into Kyron’s June 4 disappearance from Skyline K-8 School. Investigators say she’s the last person known to have seen the boy.

As first reported in WW, Terri Moulton Horman took her first polygraph just days after Kyron’s disappearance. At a press conference Thursday evening, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, emphasized what had previously been reported — that Terri Moulton Horman had failed two polygraph tests.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/09/kaine-horman-kyrons-stepmom-walked-out-on-polygraph/

The incremental "leaking" of all this information is interesting. Yesterday, there were a number of new specifics given about TH. Today, even more information. If LE isn't helping to coordinate these "leaks", I'd say that KH and DY are doing an excellent job of applying pressure.

Hope it all works to bring Kyron home.

Donjeta
07-09-2010, 08:51 PM
Does it count as failing the polygraph if you walk out before they hook you up? I would have classified it as "not cooperating". (Not that it can't be more informative than the polygraph which is unreliable...)

kimmera
07-09-2010, 09:10 PM
]IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri. [/B]

As a result, and as part of the strategy, I think both Desiree and Kaine have been to NPD school. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

I'm loving the new, aggressive Desiree. This attitude is one way to work with NPD. No more nice guy - relentless attack, calling-out, naming fault, naming flaws, placing blame, in-your-face, finger-pointing, no excuses, no wiggle room, pounding on wrong-doings, no forgiveness, negating the imagined self, denying a relationship ever even existed, denying trust or respect ever existed.

And Kaine - withdrawn and closed. I wonder if he is playing the "I couldn't give a crap about Terri" card. This is another way to work with NPD. Take all attention away. Refuse to give Terri's relationship with Kyron any credit whatsoever. (I don't know about her relationship with Kyron - ask Terri.) Shrug off her child rearing, shrug off her homemaking. Deny you noticed if she even had a relationship with the very child she's devoted the last 4 years to raising. Take everything that defines Terri and Terri's world, everything that identifies what Terri considers herself to be away, - no house, no children, no gym, no career. Stop the parasitic relationship. Force Terri to stand alone in vast nothingness and terrorize her into compliance so she can feed her endless need for any outside stimulus.

If Terri is NPD, as I suspect, she cannot be alone with herself. She would rather be in prison.

I feel like some of these answers were so awesome that the questions had to be anticipated and were highly scripted. (That is okay with me, by the way.)

IMO - much of this is FBI staged & ... it is still very very fascinating.

Not to mention, I'm sure Terri really is a big fat liar.

JMHO

BBM~

Awesome observations EP, and ITA. I believe that TH and DY probably 'made nice' for the sake of Kyron, but I also believe that TH was/is probably extremely resentful of DY. A very astute poster here on WS pointed out that in the original family PC, there is a point where KH reaches behind TH's back and puts his arm on DY's shoulder in a consoling kind of way, and TH appears to become a bit apoplectic at this small gesture. It is about 2:30 mins in...

I have to wonder after seeing that, if perhaps TH (already insecure because of her vastly changing appearance) saw DY as a threat to her marriage, which was already problematic, according to KH. Perhaps TH thought that once Kyron was gone, then she would be 'rid' of DY once and for all??? She could have her own 'perfect' little family without the outside interference of DY any longer???

Obviously, this is just speculation on my part and MOO and all that...but watching that original presser again last night really started me to thinking...:waitasec:

redkatrampant
07-09-2010, 09:23 PM
Did you all see this:

Kaine Horman: Kyron’s Stepmom Walked Out on Polygraph (With Audio Clip)
4:59 PM July 9th, 2010 by

Kaine Horman, father of 7-year-old Kyron Horman, tells WW the missing boy’s stepmom walked out of her second polygraph test before investigators even began asking questions.

“She didn’t even get hooked up to the machine. She walked out before they hooked her up,” Horman told WW in an interview Thursday night.

The stepmom, Terri Moulton Horman, is the focus of an investigation into Kyron’s June 4 disappearance from Skyline K-8 School. Investigators say she’s the last person known to have seen the boy.

As first reported in WW, Terri Moulton Horman took her first polygraph just days after Kyron’s disappearance. At a press conference Thursday evening, Kaine Horman and Kyron’s biological mother, Desiree Young, emphasized what had previously been reported — that Terri Moulton Horman had failed two polygraph tests.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/09/kaine-horman-kyrons-stepmom-walked-out-on-polygraph/

Sadly I am not shocked by this at all. I should be, but I am not. If this is true, and it seems to be, then I have just blocked off the top of the fence. I was still kinda peeking through the slats to the other side, but I am now firmly of the opinion that she knows something.
I really had to back away from this today, I know that DY,TY and KH can't , and for that I am extremely hurt for them. All of the twists and turns and allegations and slowly leaked tidbits really got to me. I have no idea why this case has affected me more than others.
But this, wow, this really seals it for me.
Thank you for allowing me to ramble and get this off my chest. I heart you guys.

nyvictoria
07-10-2010, 08:17 AM
nope, haven't been in her situation nor do I hope to be, but I maintain my thoughts as you can have yours. She is no saint to me and I don't feel she should be painted as one.

No, Desiree is not a saint. She's a victim!

Skully
07-10-2010, 08:40 AM
Sadly I am not shocked by this at all. I should be, but I am not. If this is true, and it seems to be, then I have just blocked off the top of the fence. I was still kinda peeking through the slats to the other side, but I am now firmly of the opinion that she knows something.
I really had to back away from this today, I know that DY,TY and KH can't , and for that I am extremely hurt for them. All of the twists and turns and allegations and slowly leaked tidbits really got to me. I have no idea why this case has affected me more than others.
But this, wow, this really seals it for me.
Thank you for allowing me to ramble and get this off my chest. I heart you guys.

I feel the same way, I am now thinking she hurt him or killed him. I can't figure out the why or how yet, but I am really shocked again, sad to say. I was hoping for a better outcome, but in light of this, I don't think there is one.

Skully
07-10-2010, 08:44 AM
IMO, Someone skillful has profiled Terri.

As a result, and as part of the strategy, I think both Desiree and Kaine have been to NPD school. (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

I'm loving the new, aggressive Desiree. This attitude is one way to work with NPD. No more nice guy - relentless attack, calling-out, naming fault, naming flaws, placing blame, in-your-face, finger-pointing, no excuses, no wiggle room, pounding on wrong-doings, no forgiveness, negating the imagined self, denying a relationship ever even existed, denying trust or respect ever existed.

And Kaine - withdrawn and closed. I wonder if he is playing the "I couldn't give a crap about Terri" card. This is another way to work with NPD. Take all attention away. Refuse to give Terri's relationship with Kyron any credit whatsoever. (I don't know about her relationship with Kyron - ask Terri.) Shrug off her child rearing, shrug off her homemaking. Deny you noticed if she even had a relationship with the very child she's devoted the last 4 years to raising. Take everything that defines Terri and Terri's world, everything that identifies what Terri considers herself to be away, - no house, no children, no gym, no career. Stop the parasitic relationship. Force Terri to stand alone in vast nothingness and terrorize her into compliance so she can feed her endless need for any outside stimulus.

If Terri is NPD, as I suspect, she cannot be alone with herself. She would rather be in prison.

I feel like some of these answers were so awesome that the questions had to be anticipated and were highly scripted. (That is okay with me, by the way.)

IMO - much of this is FBI staged & ... it is still very very fascinating.

Not to mention, I'm sure Terri really is a big fat liar.

JMHO

Another great post Emma,

Thank you for putting this into some kind of perspective I can relate too and understand. This I get!

TxLady2
07-10-2010, 08:47 AM
Whether Desiree is a saint or not is not important. She is a grieving mother who is desperate to find her child. She is not trying to present herself as a saint, just a mother who wants her child back and is scared and frustrated. She deserves respect, not criticism. JMO.

grandmaj
07-10-2010, 08:29 PM
oooops wrong video link. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/ Try this video on right hand side.

Kaine and Desiree talk about Kyron and their suspicions.

Chili Fries
07-10-2010, 09:25 PM
Interesting that Desiree elaborated on her suspicious feeling when she talked to Terri immediately after the school called her to say Kyron was missing.

Desiree said Terri told her:

"(Terri) said that she had gone to the school for the science fair, that she had stayed for a little while, and then she waved at him as he was walking toward his classroom, and she didn't walk him to his classroom, and then she left."

When Desiree was asked her reaction to Terri's story she reiterated that her motherly instincts kicked in and that Terri better not have done anything to her son and went on to say:

"I just didn't feel right about the conversation, it didn't strike me right."


I think this is important because it sounds like Desiree is saying that Terri's presentation of her version of events sounded like a lie from the very start.

Kaine and Desiree both go on to say that, even before the investigators led them to believe Terri could be involved, Desiree and Kaine both felt like Terri was moving in a different direction, not with them doing whatever was needed to find Kyron. Desiree also talks about the first, full-family press conference, saying how difficult it was to stand next to someone she felt was lying. Desiree talks about how she has a hard time hiding her emotions. Many of us easily picked up the rift at that press conference. It seemed to me like Terri was not good at hiding her emotions either.

Chili Fries
07-10-2010, 11:31 PM
Here's another video I haven't seen before. It's the gym owner talking about Terri's behavior when the gym was doing a fundraising effort for the searchers not long after Kyron went missing.

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=17140@koin.web.entriq.net&navCatId=156

He says her reaction to the fundraising effort was strange, saying "yeah it was awkward. You know what was really wild is everything we did, she didn't give us any acknowledgement at all, nothing, I mean not even a thank you. Didn't make eye contact with me, looked right past me, and ignored the fact that we were all here. It was just creepy."

The gym guy seems like he may be a bit of a strange nut himself but his take does reinforce Desiree's argument that Terri's suspicious behavior has been painfully obvious.

grandmaj
07-10-2010, 11:37 PM
Thank You Chili many saw this on the news but the online link didn't come up right away.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 05:17 AM
http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

Is this the direct link?

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

This article and MP3 were interesting in that they describe Terri being not very interested in doing anything to search for Kyron and that while everyone else was just devastated about Kyron she was complaining that someone highlighted her hair too orange.

If she didn't do anything to Kyron at least this seems to indicate that the superstepmom devotion to Kyron may have been a bit exaggerated.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 07:57 AM
Young says Terri Horman was a frequent liar about matters large and small.

“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.”

She says she suspects Terri Horman was untruthful in the first phone call to Young the day Kyron disappeared.

“Sometimes a mother’s instinct can be pretty accurate, but at the same time, (my suspicion) was factual-based,” she says. “I can’t give you details, but some of what she was saying didn’t match up with me. I’m familiar with the school, and I know how the school’s set up, and some of what she’s saying doesn’t make sense to me.”

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

Skully
07-11-2010, 08:05 AM
http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

Is this the direct link?

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

This article and MP3 were interesting in that they describe Terri being not very interested in doing anything to search for Kyron and that while everyone else was just devastated about Kyron she was complaining that someone highlighted her hair too orange.

If she didn't do anything to Kyron at least this seems to indicate that the superstepmom devotion to Kyron may have been a bit exaggerated.

Did you read the part that DY states that TMH couldn't tell the truth about Kyron getting stung by a bee, Silly little things she lied about. Well Kyron is allergic to bees, so what transpired that day? Did he have some other reaction to something and she said it was a bee sting? Or did he get stung and didn't say anything and it could have been a worst situation? Kids can die from bee stings if the reaction is strong enough. Makes me go HMMMMM in a big way. Was Kaine the only target, I guess not, Kyron is still missing.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 08:16 AM
“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.”

Right...why would anyone have to lie about a child's bee sting? Just for lying's sake? To cover for something they did that looks a bit like a bee sting? Because it happened somewhere she wasn't supposed to be with the child?

So if Terri lied about the bee sting do they know for sure if Kyron is allergic to bees or not? How many times would an average seven-year-old have managed to be stung by bees? I've never been stung by a bee and I'm quite a bit older than Kyron.

ella971
07-11-2010, 08:22 AM
Did K have a cell phone?

Mylou
07-11-2010, 08:28 AM
If Kyron is allergic to bee stings, why would DY call it a silly little thing ? Lying about a bee sting if the boy is allergic to them is not a silly little thing!
Allergies to bee stings can be fatal if not treated.

gliving
07-11-2010, 09:14 AM
“She’s talking about her hair that she just got done, and they put highlights in, it turned out a little too orange,” Young recalled in a tape-recorded interview with WW Thursday evening.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

I bet Desiree's blood boils if she thinks Terri is using Kyron's child support money on highlights.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 09:17 AM
If Kyron is allergic to bee stings, why would DY call it a silly little thing ? Lying about a bee sting if the boy is allergic to them is not a silly little thing!
Allergies to bee stings can be fatal if not treated.

Well, obviously it didn't kill him that time... Maybe he hasn't had near-fatal reactions so it's not such a big life-threatening deal as we all pictured immediately.

The silly little things might refer more to what she had said just before talking about the bee stings. Lying about how she met Kaine or about her divorce which would of course seem rather silly if Kaine or her ex told people the true story.

But anyway, something in the way DY phrased it, “Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about”, sounds to me more like Terri invented a story about a bee sting instead of saying nothing happened when Kyron was stung by a bee. Either DY thinks he wasn't really stung by a bee or that Terri told some kind of fib about the circumstances in which Kyron got stung by a bee.

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 09:21 AM
I already posted a bit of this in some thread here somewhere, but if Dy is the "common denominator" and possibly in TH's twisted mind the reason she hurt Kyron, maybe it was because-
Kyron was getting older, he may have been close and like her own natural son when she was caring for him in his early years but at 7 he had a mind of his own, and perhaps he really loved his mom Desiree very very much and TH felt she was "doing all the work" and Desiree was "getting all the love".

Also, maybe TH was jealous of Desiree and her freedom to work, not being saddled with a small child as TH was with baby K, and most of all, was jealous of DY. I believe TH would be jealous that DY looked far better than she did. I'm sure TH thought she herself was "all that and a bag of chips" in her bodybuilding days, and maybe that's what attracted Kaine to her. Nowadays, not so much. Some women are shallow like that beyond belief.

Maybe she wanted Kaine dead 7 months ago, but maybe her reason for doing whatever she did to Kyron wasn't just to hurt Kaine but also to take away from Desiree (out of jealousy) the thing that meant the most to her- Kyron.

Edited to add: This case is in my life more than I realize. I had a very very bad day yesterday, long story but had an absolute (justifiable) rage at a few people and absolutely "lost it", yelled at a few doctors, had my say, said my mind, was absolutely enraged, used the F word aloud and frequently- all stuff I do not do to professionals and totally out of my character, but I was beyond pissed and was protecting my child....anyway have not been that mad in well over 30 years, maybe longer. After it was all over, I was reflecting back on what I had said etc and thought about how miserable I was (not for saying it but miserable over the circumstances in general) and it popped into my head, no matter how bad a day YOU are having, its nothing compared to the nightmare Desiree and Kained wake up to every day. YOU know where your child is, they do not. YOUR child may be sick, theirs is probably dead.
It really snapped me back to reality. Safe to say that DY and KH and of course Kyron are in my mind all day everyday and in my subconscious too, as I have had dreams about him.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Well, it makes sense to me that he'd have gone for divorce and a restraining order a long time ago if he had for a moment thought that his wife was trying to hire a hitman for him.

Blondie in Spokane
07-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Actually Kaine wasn't in the room only Terri was in the room. Sorry I can't attach a link but it was one of the verbal interviews where Desiree describes when she first learned of Kyron's disappearance.

She details that she asks the secretary if Kaine or Terri is there and the secretary says only Terri is here. So Desiree said she hung up and immediately called Terri to find out what happened.

Kaine probably should have been the one to call but if he wasn't there and asked Terri to call because he was trying to find out more info then Terri shouldn't have had the secretary call for her. That's odd. Really odd to me.

I still feel that TH had this all planned this way. If the school calls DY to admit that Kyron is missing from their property then it increases their culpability/liability and serves to diminish TH's (in TH's mind).

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 09:29 AM
I still feel that TH had this all planned this way. If the school calls DY to admit that Kyron is missing from their property then it increases their culpability/liability and serves to diminish TH's (in TH's mind).

Like, if the school calls, it's like they're saying, "We lost Kyron", and if Terri calls it's like she's admitting she lost Kyron?

Blondie in Spokane
07-11-2010, 09:45 AM
That's the way I think she perceived it, and intended to make the school be the first to admit he was gone...I truly think that this was a set-up for a huge lawsuit against the school district.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 09:46 AM
Actually Kaine wasn't in the room only Terri was in the room. Sorry I can't attach a link but it was one of the verbal interviews where Desiree describes when she first learned of Kyron's disappearance.

She details that she asks the secretary if Kaine or Terri is there and the secretary says only Terri is here. So Desiree said she hung up and immediately called Terri to find out what happened.

Kaine probably should have been the one to call but if he wasn't there and asked Terri to call because he was trying to find out more info then Terri shouldn't have had the secretary call for her. That's odd. Really odd to me.

BBM

No, she doesn't. Desiree says the secretary tells her "they" asked her to call. Desiree asks if Terri was "there" and the secretary says yes. The secretary does not say only Terri was "there". She does not say that Kaine isn't "there". "There" could simply mean at the school, not necessarily in the same room. If Terri was in the same room, standing idly by while the secretary made the call, all secretary would have had to do is hand the phone over. But Desiree says she hung up and called Terri.

The police were at the school and no doubt talking to Terri and Kaine. We know both were at the school because Kaine has stated such and the police had told them that one of them had to go back home.

I can see why "they" (Terri and Kaine) would ask the school to make the call while they were busy with the police. In fact, "they" may have been the police for all we know.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/ (video interview on right side of page)

RoughlyCollie
07-11-2010, 09:48 AM
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

I bet Desiree's blood boils if she thinks Terri is using Kyron's child support money on highlights.

I think DY was mad that TH was talking about these very minor issues when Kyron had just gone missing. It is quite odd that TH was focused on her hair instead of on Kyron's situation.

Surely KH makes a good enough income to pay for that himself without having to use child support money for it. Unless DY says that Kyron's needs and reasonable wants were not being met, I doubt she was thinking that. In fact, I doubt she was thinking about child support at all, and that she was focused on doing everything she could to find Kyron.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 09:55 AM
I still feel that TH had this all planned this way. If the school calls DY to admit that Kyron is missing from their property then it increases their culpability/liability and serves to diminish TH's (in TH's mind).

IMO, the school called Desiree because Terri and Kaine were involved with the police at the time. Desiree says she was called at 4:25.

Note comment at 4:20.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


WE CANNOT ON THE PUBLIC FORUM COPY OR STATE WHAT WAS TRANSCRIBED. The link is for reference only. Thanks.

Trident
07-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Well, it makes sense to me that he'd have gone for divorce and a restraining order a long time ago if he had for a moment thought that his wife was trying to hire a hitman for him.

ITA. My question is why didn't he notice something was wrong with their marriage, IF indeed there was?

My opinion only

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Like, if the school calls, it's like they're saying, "We lost Kyron", and if Terri calls it's like she's admitting she lost Kyron?

There's no doubt in my mind that Terri asked the school secretary to call Desire because she didn't want to to be the one to break the news to Desiree that she had lost Desirees child, plus she knows that Desiree knows her "oh so well" and probably knew that Desiree, of all people, would detect the fact that Terri was guilty of this. And lying. Not only that, being the narcissist and sociopath that I really believe she is, she had no clue how a mother should act/ talk/ behave in such a situation, she had nobody to look at and mimic and without feelings of her own, she didn't have a "script" to read from, to go by, when talking to Desiree.
I wonder didn't the secretary find it odd that Terri asked HER to call Kyrons biological mother? In the normal world WE all live in, wouldn't YOU want to be the one to break such devastating news to the natural mother of this child, regardless if you were the last to see him or not? I know I would. I would not ask a stranger to do it.
The more I learn about Teri the more I can;t stand her. But I still wonder why, Desiree knowing her so well as she did, why did she entrust the care of her child to a woman that she "has known to be a liar for the last 7.5 years"?
i know people who lie like that, about anything and everything, it's just who they are. I try to stay away from those people myself, I know I certainly wouldn't want a chronic liar raising my child. I wonder why Desiree was ok with Kyron living in that home full time and being raised by someone who was a chronic liar? Wasn't she afraid Kyron would also become a chronic liar, having been raised by one? That would have been a concern of mine, for sure. Desiree is evidently well now and her kidney issues must not be in the forefront anymore, as she stated she was "at work" or had just "come home from work", when she got the call, so she is not disabled and possibly could have had Kyron back to her custody. Why didn't she? Yes, Kyron was used to being with Kaine and Terri and his older step bro and his new little sister, but if he was my kid and I thought the step mother was not the best mother she could possibly be, thought (knew!) she was a liar, certainly her narcissistic traits showed through to Desiree, why didn't she fight to get Kyron back? Did Kaine share w/ Desiree Terris problems with PPD? Why did Terri not get her child OUT of that house if she knew Terri had a problem? I am just not getting why Desiree didn't have Kyron. NOT dissing Desiree, just so curious. If there is truth to the story that TH fell in love w/ Kaine while being "nanny" to Kyron while Desiree was away and undergoing treatment in Canada, even if Desiree WAS "finished" with Kaine, even if Terri didn't "steal" Kaine from Desiree (which I think she did, personally, I think she and Kaine were having an affair and that was partial impetus for Desiree abandoning the marriage when 8+ mos pregnant), wouldn't you want your child back once you were back home, even if she WAS living with her parents due to medical bills she had accumulated, why not say mom and dad I NEED my child back in my life, can I have him stay here too, etc? Why let the b!tch who ended up sleeping with your ex, now raise your own precious child "as her own". I would give no woman the satisfaction of having my ex PLUS my child, under almost any circumstance. I just don't get it. There's got to be a huge "back story" to all of this. Desiree seems mentally balanced, intelligent, a loving mother, normal, why would she not want her child back? Years ago!!

Mylou
07-11-2010, 10:04 AM
ITA. My question is why didn't he notice something was wrong with their marriage, IF indeed there was?

My opinion only

Exactly, actually I was just watching a video of Kaine and Desiree, and Kaine says everything was normal, until Kyron never got off the bus.
Asked about Red Flags,he says plenty afterwards. He doesn't say anything about any red flags before Kyron goes missing.
How one can live in the same house and not feel tension, and there had to be tension of some sort if your partner is planning on having you killed ?
I don't get it myself. I know if my husband is mad about anything, even if it has nothing to do with me, I can feel it. Maybe they were really not in touch with one another, how else can you explain it.

Wings Of Light
07-11-2010, 10:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzsDcA_GJY&feature=player_embedded

I apologize if this has already been posted, but I haven't seen it. This is a bombshell. Skip to the 1 minute mark in the video.

By the way... Do we know when the last time Kyron was seen by someone other than Terri?

Calliope
07-11-2010, 10:07 AM
ITA. My question is why didn't he notice something was wrong with their marriage, IF indeed there was?

My opinion only

Well... take your pick.


Kaine Horman says it was only after Kyron disappeared that he learned the extent of his marital problems. He says he found out Terri Horman had been complaining to friends behind his back for months about their marriage. But he says she rarely expressed those feelings to him.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/


The father of missing second-grader Kyron Horman said Thursday that his marriage to the boy's stepmom began to grow rocky after she gave birth to their little girl 19 months ago...

Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

gliving
07-11-2010, 10:08 AM
I think DY was mad that TH was talking about these very minor issues when Kyron had just gone missing. It is quite odd that TH was focused on her hair instead of on Kyron's situation.

Surely KH makes a good enough income to pay for that himself without having to use child support money for it. Unless DY says that Kyron's needs and reasonable wants were not being met, I doubt she was thinking that. In fact, I doubt she was thinking about child support at all, and that she was focused on doing everything she could to find Kyron.

Yes, you are right. I just don't understand the seven years of animosity Desiree feels for Terri. It's understandable once Kyron goes missing, but Desiree brings up so many past items that it seems she's had a slow burn for some time. I'd probably mention if my awful orange highlights just to keep from screaming. People talk about the silliest of things when under stress. Like getting the giggles at a funeral, it's the emotional stress that brings it out. KWIM?

Easy for me to say, I'm not in her shoes, bless her heart.

matou
07-11-2010, 10:09 AM
Maybe that explains why she has her eyes rolled up during the first presser. She's thinking really, really hard, "Where was I anyway?" j/k
Sorry, I just don't buy this excuse.

greenbean
07-11-2010, 10:10 AM
It absolutely floors me that she has not been attacked physically by either of his parents. I would be unable to control myself. I'm not normally a violent person but I would be. These people have tremendous restraint.

None of this bodes well for Kyron. She can't remember where she was? Hardly. She "can't remember" where she dumped his body.

This all makes me sick.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 10:10 AM
ITA. My question is why didn't he notice something was wrong with their marriage, IF indeed there was?

My opinion only

This seems to address that question:

Kaine Horman says it was only after Kyron disappeared that he learned the extent of his marital problems. He says he found out Terri Horman had been complaining to friends behind his back for months about their marriage. But he says she rarely expressed those feelings to him.

“She would basically just internalize it and go to somebody else and go, ‘hey, here’s how I feel, our marriage is having problems,’ and just vent to other people, having this victim mentality of, I want you to see it my way, I want you to side with me,” Kaine Horman says. “But she didn’t ever talk to me about it.”
http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

ella971
07-11-2010, 10:10 AM
No words. Not that I can use without getting TO.

momtective
07-11-2010, 10:12 AM
BS...that's all I have to say...just BS

Wrinkles
07-11-2010, 10:14 AM
And about "Terry is lying" ...

From the WilliametteWeekly: (http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/)

>>Young says Terri Horman was a frequent liar about matters large and small.

“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.”<<

Hmmm... There is the bee sting thing. We are seeing a thread running through this case with the bee sting. I wonder how that fits into the picture.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 10:15 AM
This seems to address that question:


http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

Or...

The father of missing second-grader Kyron Horman said Thursday that his marriage to the boy's stepmom began to grow rocky after she gave birth to their little girl 19 months ago...

Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

So which is it? He had no idea until Kyron came up missing or he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months of baby's birth?

AnaTeresa
07-11-2010, 10:15 AM
I noticed that as well Calliope - it's one of the things that's concerning me with the statements KH and DY are making about TMH recently. Some are seemingly contradictory, which can of course be reporting, the specific question asked, etc. - but it makes them look like they are attempting to tear TMH down while building themselves up in the media.

I know some people believe that LE is directing these interviews behind the scenes, but that's not really the feeling that I'm getting. I'm not sure who is directing their interactions with the media, but I think the way these statements are made is making KH and DY look bad to some people. They are making me doubt them with their statements, not TMH, because of the way they are coming across. My opinion only, of course.

mchris1024
07-11-2010, 10:15 AM
It absolutely floors me that she has not been attacked physically by either of his parents. I would be unable to control myself. I'm not normally a violent person but I would be. These people have tremendous restraint.

None of this bodes well for Kyron. She can't remember where she was? Hardly. She "can't remember" where she dumped his body.

This all makes me sick.

I have said this to my husband, I would be digging her eyeball outs and I'm not voilent either....

Mylou
07-11-2010, 10:15 AM
This is probably the part of the LDT she failed.

greenbean
07-11-2010, 10:16 AM
Was her cell phone on her that while day? Do we know? You would think they would have done multiple searches where her phone pinged. I imagine they have.... If he's not there he must have been handed off but that just sounds so far fetched to me. I don't think that actually happens all that often.

joeskidbeck
07-11-2010, 10:18 AM
If she really can't remember, then she should have no problem with being hypnotized in order to help her remember. NOT buying it. A person with nothing to hide wouldn't just shut down and say they don't remember where they were.

arielilane
07-11-2010, 10:18 AM
I agree with what retired captain C.W. Jensen stated in the video.

mysticrose
07-11-2010, 10:20 AM
Well isnt that convenient. Don't remember where you were, it is simple, that way you don't get caught getting your stories mixed up with LE.

Terri is a smart lady imo, she has kept her mouth shut. She knows LE is onto her but she also knows that they don't have enough to link her, just keep her mouth shut and it will all work out. Look at Josh Powell, he is saying nothing and he is walking free, at least for now......

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Or...



http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

So which is it? He had no idea until Kyron came up missing or he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months of baby's birth?

I think it's both... NOW that he was asked about it he thought that his marriage fractured when Terri got depressed but if you'd asked him THEN he might have said that the marriage is okay, it's just that the wife is feeling blue.

Edit: I don't think your quotes are in conflict because IMO it doesn't say that he thought a year ago that his marriage was on the rocks, it just says that he now thinks (looking back and brutally aware that his marriage is in big trouble) that the problems started a year ago when Terri got depressed.

Nana46
07-11-2010, 10:23 AM
That's the way I think she perceived it, and intended to make the school be the first to admit he was gone...I truly think that this was a set-up for a huge lawsuit against the school district.

IMO, you have nailed it.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Confirmed: Terri can't remember where she was on June 4th

Respectfully, no this isn't confirmed.

IMO, they are obviously referring to Terri's story of her whereabouts allegedly not matching her cell 'pings', bank card records, etc.

This doesn't mean that Terri has claimed she doesn't remember where she was, but that they think she's lying about where she said she was that morning.

greenbean
07-11-2010, 10:24 AM
But why show up at the school at all? Why not say that Kyron went off to the bus and never made it? It seems so stupid....

froginTtown
07-11-2010, 10:24 AM
Funny,,, She had no trouble remembering how to get back to that elevator... :)

Wings Of Light
07-11-2010, 10:24 AM
I think she did give LE an alibi at the beginning, but they checked into it and found conflicting information. When they confronted her, it probably went something like this "Oh wait... that's right... I wasn't... oops... where was I again... ummm... I can't really remember... tell you in 10 days?"

Trident
07-11-2010, 10:24 AM
That was no bombshell to me, I believe we've heard it all before. Until LE, the ones currently employed and working on this case, come out and say that, I'm going to stay a wee bit skeptical.

My opinion only

Wrinkles
07-11-2010, 10:25 AM
And about "Terri is lying..."

From KGW.com: (http://www.kgw.com/news/Desiree-Young-on-Terri-Moulton-I-know-shes-lying-98075814.html)
>>While Terri Horman has said she was in certain locations, investigators have placed her elsewhere using bank card records and cell phone pings, according to sources.<<

concerned4kids
07-11-2010, 10:26 AM
This is crazy!! How can she not remember where she was?? I have not posted alot on this case but this makes no sense!!

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 10:26 AM
Exactly, actually I was just watching a video of Kaine and Desiree, and Kaine says everything was normal, until Kyron never got off the bus.
Asked about Red Flags,he says plenty afterwards. He doesn't say anything about any red flags before Kyron goes missing.
How one can live in the same house and not feel tension, and there had to be tension of some sort if your partner is planning on having you killed ?
I don't get it myself. I know if my husband is mad about anything, even if it has nothing to do with me, I can feel it. Maybe they were really not in touch with one another, how else can you explain it.

Did Terri REALLY have PPD, was she really being treated for it, or was that just Kaines "assumption".? Did he study up on PPD and know what it was all about? Did he consider sending Kyron back to Desire, not necessairly for Kyrons safety but to take some of the pressure off of Terri in her "delicate" condition with PPD? Why didn't Kaine hire someone to come and help Terri out during the day while he was at work, was he not concerned Terri would possibly harm the new baby? Gosh, I would have been concerned. Left alone in "the woods" all day, isolated, with a new baby, anything could have happened. Wasn't he concerned? Did Kaine want to keep Kyron to himself full time and only let Desiree have him for visitation out of some feeling of "spite". Because IMO all kids are better off with their natural mothers unless the mother has some issues like alcoholism or mental illness or drug abuse or poverty, etc. Terri had some kind of drinking issue at some point, hence the DUI with her own child in the car, wasn't Kaine concerned about her drinking back then? Or at least about her ability to use common sense when she had a child in her care, and then drinking? I also wonder, even though this is unfounded, if Terri didn't have some other substance abuse issues, either continual or off and on. Does Kaine have some issues of his own, that he would choose to be with a liar, a narcissist, a person with bad judgment (the DUI), etc? There comes a time when you are with someone who has many issues, especially one responsible for the day to day care of children, that you have to say look maybe life would be better for me and my kids without this woman. I need to take steps to divorce her for my own sanity and for the sake and safety of he kids. Was Kaine a workaholic and more into his work than he was what was going on at home? Was Kaine a man so shallow that what attracted him to Terri initially was her physical attractiveness (her body, I think she is NOT a good looking woman but thats just IMO) and he was willing to "overlook" the other personality defects she had?
I know all I do is ask ask ask questions, and they are Q's nobody knows the answer to. I just don't "get" this at all. Is there an overall lesson to be learned in all fo this for the rest of us? And what is that lesson?

CharlestonGal
07-11-2010, 10:26 AM
Wow. I'm not the least physically violent either. I've never struck a person or animal or object in my life. I've never even thrown anything. But I have to tell you, if the last person seen with my child claimed "I can't remember where I was" I'd have to pull her hair out, and then some until she told me. What did she do, start drinking at 6 a.m. or something? Drugs? Temporary alien abduction?

I bet somehow she remembers where her daughter is every moment. The woman just needs to woman up and come clean. Grrrr.....

Cheewawa007
07-11-2010, 10:26 AM
Didn't Kaine confirm their baby was with Terri the morning Kyron disappeared during the press conference Thursday night?

gliving
07-11-2010, 10:27 AM
They have cell phone pings in the Seattle/Tacoma or Portland area? Or is he saying she handed Kyron off to someone? I thought he made it sound like Terri took a round trip.

greenbean
07-11-2010, 10:27 AM
I too err on the side of doubt most of the time. I still don't know that she did it or even said that. But, I mean WHY would his ma say that?

None of it makes any sense at all. AT ALL.

greenbean
07-11-2010, 10:30 AM
Wow. I'm not the least physically violent either. I've never struck a person or animal or object in my life. I've never even thrown anything. But I have to tell you, if the last person seen with my child claimed "I can't remember where I was" I'd have to pull her hair out, and then some until she told me. What did she do, start drinking at 6 a.m. or something? Drugs? Temporary alien abduction?

I bet somehow she remembers where her daughter is every moment. The woman just needs to woman up and come clean. Grrrr.....

I never buy that drug BS. Or drinking. It would be really obvious to everyone that encountered her that day. Same goes for xanax or Rohypnol or whatever. In order to take enough to be completely clueless people at the school would have noticed. People where she used her debit card would have noticed. I doubt she would have been able to drive a car if she was THAT wasted.

Noway
07-11-2010, 10:33 AM
(typed by me from video -- may not be exact)

During the same interview, DY shared for the first time that she knew that Terri was unable to account for her actions for several hours on June 4. "I can tell you what I ate that day and she can't tell you where she was."

To me, this does not mean that she cannot remember ... just that she is telling people she can't remember. IMO she is making a conscious decision not to tell anyone where she was.

And as the retired LE (C.W. Jensen) said "you might as well say 'I'm lying'" ...


ETA: I'd suggest changing this thread title to "Terri says ..." but Terri didn't actually say it. Desiree did. So I don't consider it confirmed at all. I want LE involved in the case to speak!!!!

x_files
07-11-2010, 10:33 AM
Did Terri REALLY have PPD, was she really being treated for it, or was that just Kaines "assumption".? Did he study up on PPD and know what it was all about? Did he consider sending Kyron back to Desire, not necessairly for Kyrons safety but to take some of the pressure off of Terri in her "delicate" condition with PPD? Why didn't Kaine hire someone to come and help Terri out during the day while he was at work, was he not concerned Terri would possibly harm the new baby? Gosh, I would have been concerned. Left alone in "the woods" all day, isolated, with a new baby, anything could have happened. Wasn't he concerned? Did Kaine want to keep Kyron to himself full time and only let Desiree have him for visitation out of some feeling of "spite". Because IMO all kids are better off with their natural mothers unless the mother has some issues like alcoholism or mental illness or drug abuse or poverty, etc. Terri had some kind of drinking issue at some point, hence the DUI with her own child in the car, wasn't Kaine concerned about her drinking back then? Or at least about her ability to use common sense when she had a child in her care, and then drinking? I also wonder, even though this is unfounded, if Terri didn't have some other substance abuse issues, either continual or off and on. Does Kaine have some issues of his own, that he would choose to be with a liar, a narcissist, a person with bad judgment (the DUI), etc? There comes a time when you are with someone who has many issues, especially one responsible for the day to day care of children, that you have to say look maybe life would be better for me and my kids without this woman. I need to take steps to divorce her for my own sanity and for the sake and safety of he kids. Was Kaine a workaholic and more into his work than he was what was going on at home? Was Kaine a man so shallow that what attracted him to Terri initially was her physical attractiveness (her body, I think she is NOT a good looking woman but thats just IMO) and he was willing to "overlook" the other personality defects she had?
I know all I do is ask ask ask questions, and they are Q's nobody knows the answer to. I just don't "get" this at all. Is there an overall lesson to be learned in all fo this for the rest of us? And what is that lesson?

There is a lesson here. I couldn't agree with you more.
Hindsight 20/20. Kaine probably already feels immense guilt about it.
But, I agree there's more to this story than meets he eye.
Step-mom maybe indeed wicked but, she didn't live in a vacuum, she either had to given red flags are warning signs in the past that everyone should have noticed, the school, her family, everyone.
I hope this case has a happy ending with Kyron returned.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 10:35 AM
That was no bombshell to me, I believe we've heard it all before. Until LE, the ones currently employed and working on this case, come out and say that, I'm going to stay a wee bit skeptical.

My opinion only

Desiree's comment simply means that LE has found records proving Terri was not where she claimed to be at the times she claimed to be there, or (more likely, IMO) that she didn't tell police about everywhere she'd gone that morning. I don't take it to mean Terri has said she can't recall where she was that day.


JMO, of course.

ella971
07-11-2010, 10:35 AM
Not to sound like a broken record but FBI is watching her every move.Cell phones,computer,every place she goes.

Mylou
07-11-2010, 10:36 AM
It just occured to me while watching this video again about Kaine and Desiree.
They are talking about Terri failing the LTD, and being very vocal about it, funny how they believed her on that one!

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

gliving
07-11-2010, 10:37 AM
"Kaine Horman says it was only after Kyron disappeared that he learned the extent of his marital problems. He says he found out Terri Horman had been complaining to friends behind his back for months about their marriage. But he says she rarely expressed those feelings to him."

Note to self: Quit confiding with my best friends about how my husband sometimes drives me crazy.

mrsu
07-11-2010, 10:37 AM
Interesting...so she can remember exactly what time she dropped Kyron off at school that day...but.....not what she did afterward? I don't buy it one bit.

Wasn't it TH's mom who said she went about her day "running errands and tending to household chores"? I think this was probably her initial alibi, but when LE confronted her with the cell phone ping thing she went to the "i don't remember" excuse.

RoughlyCollie
07-11-2010, 10:38 AM
How one can live in the same house and not feel tension, and there had to be tension of some sort if your partner is planning on having you killed ?
I don't get it myself. I know if my husband is mad about anything, even if it has nothing to do with me, I can feel it. Maybe they were really not in touch with one another, how else can you explain it.

Maybe TH wasn't mad. Maybe she just cold-bloodedly decided to get rid of KH and Kyron because it would benefit her. Maybe KH and Kyron were just roaches crawling across the kitchen floor of her life, and she decided to step on them.

Perhaps it was a crime of opportunity and "nothing personal". She would have gotten rid of any husband, kid, or person who got between her and what she wanted. These particular people just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've known sociopaths who have explained their actions this way. They did not give one single thought to how they had hurt others because it was nothing personal --- from the sociopaths' points of view.

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 10:39 AM
And about "Terry is lying" ...

From the WilliametteWeekly: (http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/)

>>Young says Terri Horman was a frequent liar about matters large and small.

“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.”<<

Hmmm... There is the bee sting thing. We are seeing a thread running through this case with the bee sting. I wonder how that fits into the picture.

If Kyron is highly allergic to bee stings, maybe Terri made up a story to Desiree about Kyron being stung and Terri came to the rescue promptly with the epi pen and "saved his lfe". Almost a Munchausen type thing, except the part about him really being stung was possibly a made-up lie. "Look at what a superior mother I am to your son, he was stung and I saved his life..." Maybe Desiree questioned Kyron, after-the-fact,and found out it was all BS and Kyron never got stung at all. Maybe that's the story of her lying about the bee sting...???? As usual, all speculation on my part. so JMO.
Maybe Terri felt that next to Desiree, she was not as good of a mother as Desiree.. Maybe Terri felt he need to rub in Desires face what a wonderful mother she was. Maybe she secretly WANTED Desiree to feel like she was "left out" of he day to day life of Kyron.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 10:39 AM
I think she's probably told them a detailed story about where she was, it just doesn't seem to be true.

x_files
07-11-2010, 10:41 AM
Maybe TH wasn't mad. Maybe she just cold-bloodedly decided to get rid of KH and Kyron because it would benefit her. Maybe KH and Kyron were just roaches crawling across the kitchen floor of her life, and she decided to step on them.

Wouldn't you like to hear from the past best friends, high school friends and ex regarding Terri's behavior?
From one ex who was interviewed he didn't seem to say anything bad about her, but had the opportunity. (Maybe he has class?)
This behavior has to be a recurring pattern in her life.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 10:48 AM
That clip on the CBS video here is just part of an interview done earlier (the one they did on Thursday, perhaps?); I can't remember where or when the original came out, but it was this last week. Maybe someone not as sleep deprived can pull it up. When you see it in its full context, Desiree's meaning is quite clear.

Trident
07-11-2010, 10:49 AM
I think she's probably told them a detailed story about where she was, it just doesn't seem to be true.

Ya mean she might have left a little bit out, LOL?

Torn2pieces
07-11-2010, 10:57 AM
She can't remember what lie she told. Hence - can't remember where or what she did that day.

She knows exactly what she did that day.

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 10:57 AM
And about "Terry is lying" ...

From the WilliametteWeekly: (http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/)

>>Young says Terri Horman was a frequent liar about matters large and small.

“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.”<<

Hmmm... There is the bee sting thing. We are seeing a thread running through this case with the bee sting. I wonder how that fits into the picture.

BBM

Maybe there is truth to the fact that Terri met Kaine while Desiree was pregnant, the story "goes" (or at least in intially it "went") that Terri moved in when Desiree was in Canada to help w/ 2 yr old Kyron. That Terri was actually a "friend" of Desirees and had known Kyron since he was 3 days old, according to a FRIEND OF TERRIS. And possibly a lie from terris lips to her friend, also.
Now we hear Desiree say Terri was NEVER a friend of hers. That Terri has always been known to Desiree to be a liar, that she even lied about how she met Kaine. Leads me to think she didn't meet Kaine cos she was a friend of Desires and came to the rescue to watch toddler Kyron. Leads me to think she knew KAINE, not Desiree, and since Desiree took a rather drastic step of divorcing a man when she was 8+ months pregnant with his child, I smell infidelity. Leads me to think that once Desiree was off to Canada, Terri moved in for the kill with Kaine and became not just his nanny but his lover. How horrible, with Kyrons mother ill and away for treatment. What a total b!tch to do that to another woman, first her man, then her baby. Why did Desiree consent to have Terri move in with Kaine to care for her baby? Did she have any say in the matter, did she even KNOW while she was away that Terri was living with Kaine and mothering her child? I can;t believe a woman would consent to having the "other woman" who possibly broke up her marriage now be the person in charge of her baby. Maybe she left Kyron with Kaine, who lived alone, because he was Kyrons father. Maybe because of Kaine working FT he needed a person to provide care for Kyron while he worked (WHY NOT DAY CARE???) Whose idea was it that Terri move in with Kaine, bringing her OWN son along, and care for Kyron, I wonder?
How rich is the irony that Terri essentially "took" Kyron from Desiree when he was close to the same age as Terris daughter baby K now is, she takes another woman's child, and then later her own child, almost the same age as Kyron was, is taken from her (by Kaine). Truly what comes around goes around.

2goldfish
07-11-2010, 10:58 AM
I bizarrely feel angry! I struggled to be fair in my thoughts and only base my opinions on the facts that have been released.

I feel like I wasted a lot of "I dont know, this sounds suspicious but I need more facts" when in FACT I suspected from the first headline I read.

although.....this doesnt mean the outcome must yet be terrible.....please TH, I hope you have only hidden him away somewhere safe....

greenbean
07-11-2010, 11:01 AM
I bizarrely feel angry! I struggled to be fair in my thoughts and only base my opinions on the facts that have been released.

I feel like I wasted a lot of "I dont know, this sounds suspicious but I need more facts" when in FACT I suspected from the first headline I read.

although.....this doesnt mean the outcome must yet be terrible.....please TH, I hope you have only hidden him away somewhere safe....


Who would hide a kid this long though as a favor to someone? That's one helluva favor.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 11:02 AM
It just occured to me while watching this video again about Kaine and Desiree.
They are talking about Terri failing the LTD, and being very vocal about it, funny how they believed her on that one!

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

lol

Seems to be the only thing they think she told the truth about...

2goldfish
07-11-2010, 11:03 AM
Who would hide a kid this long though as a favor to someone? That's one helluva favor.


I know that's likely true. stranger things have happened though :( I dont want to believe a precious child is irretrievably gone til I have to KWIM?

justathought
07-11-2010, 11:03 AM
Y'll, I think too much is being read into body language. Example from this week in my life that is still troubling me, last week I was in a roundtable type meeting directly affecting the work that I do. I was taking notes, listening intently, and speaking at times but mostly letting others talk-- that was the point of the meeting. After the meeting, one board member told another, I seemed disengaged and not myself. The other board member said, "I had a lot on my mind due to my divorce." The first board member subsequently called me to inquire. I was floored and astounded. I wasn't disengaged, nothing was on my mind but the discussion and how to bring forth the points being made in an upcoming strategic planning session with the entire board. My divorce was three years ago! I've asked myself over and over, how on earth did they come up with those observations!! I've decided I need a face lift.

My observation is that pretty much everyone has personal issues....but absolutely nothing was on my mind in that regard or any other personal issue that day. This misobservation, hopefully won't but could have an effect on my future employment.

Terri is in a difficult spot. I hope she wasn't involved. I hope Kyron is alive.
Innocent or guilty, she just can't talk at this point. Recently, sorry I can't recall the name, a 20 year old cold case was solved here a month or so ago...a serial killer from out of state. Her fiance at the time, whom I know casually, was always the suspect, didn't do it and it always affected his life to a degree.
My daughter is a step-mother. She's a great one. Orginally, there was alot of animosity...then none...the step and the bio became friends. In May, the 17-year-old moved out on her own..my daughter had nothing to do with it but given the situation would have preferred if that was going to happen that the girl had come to live with her but she won't. The mother is blaming my daughter. My daughter was as astounded as the entire family when the girl left. My daughter, now divorced from the father, is praying for peace in the valley for all parties and that the seventeen year old doesn't throw a promising future away.

Calliope
07-11-2010, 11:04 AM
Did Terri REALLY have PPD, was she really being treated for it, or was that just Kaines "assumption".?

<snipped>


Horman said he thought his marriage to Terri Moulton Horman fractured within six months after she gave birth in November 2008, the result of postpartum depression.

Terri Horman was put on medication for the depression, and her doctor told Kaine to keep an eye on her to make sure she was OK, he said. But she wasn't OK.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

mom_of_five
07-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Talk of PPD...TH possibly not being able to 'remember' what she did that morning: sounds like a great set-up for an insanity defense to me. Just my opinion.

Noway
07-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Who would hide a kid this long though as a favor to someone? That's one helluva favor.

IF he is alive and with someone else, I'm not sure it was a "favor" to Terri but "payment" of some kind.

I also wonder what type of criminal element she brought into their lives if she was out looking for someone to kill her husband. Someone may have decided they'd get more $ for Kyron (Portland being a human trafficking mecca.)

grandmaj
07-11-2010, 11:08 AM
Peeps I've changed the title of this thread. I don't believe Desiree meant literally Terri can't remember. I think she is referring to her not being truthful. As we have heard in other videos.

Here is another article.

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

For The Kids
07-11-2010, 11:08 AM
What a nightmare it must be for them to know she is lying ... and not be able to get her to tell the truth.


Terri is in a difficult spot. I hope she wasn't involved. I hope Kane is alive.
Innocent or guilty, she just can't talk at this point. Recently, sorry I can't recall the name, a 20 year old cold case was solved here a month or so ago...a serial killer from out of state. Her fiance at the time, whom I know casually, was always the suspect, didn't do it and it always affected his life to a degree.
.



Erm yes I hope Kaine is still alive too..tho i THINK you meant Kyron.

believe09
07-11-2010, 11:09 AM
That's the way I think she perceived it, and intended to make the school be the first to admit he was gone...I truly think that this was a set-up for a huge lawsuit against the school district.

This is a really interesting theory.

CharlestonGal
07-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Who would hide a kid this long though as a favor to someone? That's one helluva favor.

I know, right? I have wonderful friends and family and there is no way in hades any of them would hide my child for me unless some Mexican cartel or Mafia gangsters were after her. And even then, they'd tell me to go to the FBI or something.

In my opinion, TH knows exactly what happened to Kyron and where he is. She needs to tell LE what happened.

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 11:15 AM
Erm yes I hope Kaine is still alive too..tho i THINK you meant Kyron.

Just jumping off your post, I am sure she meant Kyron too but honestly poor Kaine looks dead inside to me, as another poster said, like a hollow shell.

mom_of_five
07-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Whether TH says she can't remember where she was or if where she does say she was doesn't match up with LE's discoveries, it's all semantics. Both scenarios mean she's lying.

Noway
07-11-2010, 11:19 AM
I suppose Terri could have fed the "someone who has Kyron" some story. I wonder if there is anyone in her life who would do anything for her -- old friend, old flame, whoever.

believe09
07-11-2010, 11:20 AM
I do not believe that people always lie, just like people always tell the truth. FWIW.

Let's say for a moment that TH's initial statements regarding her whereabouts do not seem to match independent scrutiny-like cell phone pings or bank records. When questioned about that with polygraph equipment, (SPECULATING HERE) let's say the results indicate deception.

Well then it is safe for KH and DY to say or even imply that TH's version of events does not match the evidence-or more simply that she is not cooperating and/or lying.

This does not mean TH is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but it certainly makes it much more difficult to clear her from the investigation. And that is all LE wants to do. You start inside with the people closest and you eliminate them allowing you to look further away. Time is of the essence and in fact, they are continuing to waste time on TH if she is not involved, because she is not making it easy for them to eliminate her and to focus their efforts elsewhere.

So she needs to take whatever steps that will eliminate her from this inquiry in order to allow LE to find the real perp. That is her job as a parent and as a contributing member of society.

If she was doing something that she would rather hide, the FBI is not going to make it front page news. Kaine and Desiree might-but LE will not. They havent yet. JMVHO.

Here is my question to TH-How much worse can this all really get? Get yourself eliminated from this investigation.....

For The Kids
07-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Just jumping off your post, I am sure she meant Kyron too but honestly poor Kaine looks dead inside to me, as another poster said, like a hollow shell.

I totally agree and I am just so pleased that he has baby K with him. At least it gives him something positive to focus on at this horrific time

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 11:21 AM
This is a really interesting theory.

It IS an interesting theory, but I don't think it was Terri's intention to sue the school for $$ and that's why she choose to take Kyron away when the school was supposed to be responsible for his safety at that time. I think she took him then because to her it was a perfect way to get rid of him and have the blame put on the school instead of on her. The suing and money issue was secondary, and maybe didn't even occur to Terri at the time. I am under the impression Kaine made decent salary and there was really no need for Terri to pull off such a stunt merely for the possible lawsuit that might ensue later.
I am sure Terri thought she was so clever in her plan that nobody would even suspect she was involved. Boy, was she mistaken.

x_files
07-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Who would hide a kid this long though as a favor to someone? That's one helluva favor.

Since Kyron isn't her child, it's not hiding him out due to a custody issue. If she thought Kyron was being abused she'd call Desiree and Tony.
So, it leaves us with a few nefarious reasons. Either sold or traded him. Or wanted him for ransom, but where is the request for money?
This doesn't look good to me.
Does anyone have any references to step-mother/father abduction cases where she hid the child and later recovered? I can't think of one off the top of my head.
Maybe it was a ill conceived ransom plot that went south? Maybe she trusted an untrustworthy person (anyone wiling to hide, take or kidnap a child is a criminal and therefore cannot be trusted) and the took or sold Kyron and didn't follow her plan?
Portland has a large human trafficking problem- this worries me.
This is all just MOO up for speculation and theories.
If this is true the movie Fargo comes to mind. A complex ill conceived plot for ransom that goes wrong.

raeann
07-11-2010, 11:25 AM
I agree with what retired captain C.W. Jensen stated in the video.

That's fine....but remember to take it with a box of salt, in light of this particular officers questionable background of honesty. He is hardly a representative that the Portland Police or any other LE agency would choose to be interpreting their case for them. (See link below)

Also, remember that the MCSO came out after the very interview posted of DY and KH and said very explicitly that the information in the interviews DID NOT came from investigation sources.


http://wweek.com/editorial/3018/4872/

Noway
07-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Maybe she didn't expect this much media coverage for Kyron being missing and her plans had to change?

human
07-11-2010, 11:26 AM
she may walk around "free" if LE can't nail her, but wait until she sees what her "free" is.

She better like living with her parents or in a homeless shelter somewhere.

Maybe she does have some friends without children that will take her in. But will they keep feeding her and buying clothes and gas for her?

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 11:26 AM
I do not believe that people always lie, just like people always tell the truth. FWIW.

Let's say for a moment that TH's initial statements regarding her whereabouts do not seem to match independent scrutiny-like cell phone pings or bank records. When questioned about that with polygraph equipment, (SPECULATING HERE) let's say the results indicate deception.

Well then it is safe for KH and DY to say or even imply that TH's version of events does not match the evidence-or more simply that she is not cooperating and/or lying.

This does not mean TH is responsible for Kyron's disappearance, but it certainly makes it much more difficult to clear her from the investigation. And that is all LE wants to do. You start inside with the people closest and you eliminate them allowing you to look further away. Time is of the essence and in fact, they are continuing to waste time on TH if she is not involved, because she is not making it easy for them to eliminate her and to focus their efforts elsewhere.

So she needs to take whatever steps that will eliminate her from this inquiry in order to allow LE to find the real perp. That is her job as a parent and as a contributing member of society.

If she was doing something that she would rather hide, the FBI is not going to make it front page news. Kaine and Desiree might-but LE will not. They havent yet. JMVHO.

Here is my question to TH-How much worse can this all really get? Get yourself eliminated from this investigation.....

This is JMO, but when Kaine said that there was one question they just could not get past in the poly with Terri, but he added he could not say what that question was due to it being an ongoing investigation, I am betting that question was "Do you know where Kyron is?"l

grandmaj
07-11-2010, 11:29 AM
Rumors are anything you can't back up with links...... Do not rumor, do not discuss inside information unless you have been cleared with Tricia as a certified local. Do not rumor about affairs.

What does this do to bring Kyron home? TO's for any rumors.

Noway
07-11-2010, 11:30 AM
I agree with Jensen's statement as far as saying "you might as well say 'I'm lying'" because that's what came to my own mind immediately.

You might not know the exact times you were at X and Y, but you could certainly remember what places you went. JMO

ETA: And once you listed the places, the times would fall into place. Again JMO.

Wrinkles
07-11-2010, 11:31 AM
Or...

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_father_recalls_w.html

So which is it? He had no idea until Kyron came up missing or he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months of baby's birth?

Recently I have been working on a document that considers hindsight, retrospective analysis and how it can make a difference between life and death. Aside from Kaine's head probably being overly swamped with thoughts of "where is my son, is he alive, when can I see him again if he is" (and how do I take care of my little girl, what is best for her, and how do I put back any semblance of order in my life with so much happening, and what is my next step to help LE etc.) -- my guess is that it is also cluttered with some things that he hasn't had time to fully piece together yet. Due to the latter, I believe that we can expect to see some things that are "pieces" strewn together, as he tries to sort things out along the way of being a grieving father hoping for the return of his missing child.

My guess would be that Kaine is doing a lot of restrospective analysis as he can find the time to even face signs he might have missed. I work with parents who are looking at that in cases of having lost their children to a rather insidious disease -- one that hides itself rather well until it takes the life of a child suddenly and unexpectedly. Parents and the knowledgeable doctors to whom they have taken their children have missed "huge" signs disguised as relatively nothing. I'm sure both Kaine and Desiree are looking back..."how could we have missed this." Or, "I saw it, but I could never have imagined it could come to this." Extremely knowledgeable people, those who are trained to focus on certain things, have missed important signs and were never able to quite put it together until after a long time of retrospective analysis. In some cases, there are years before that "looking back" and "piecing together" can be done.

Back to your question:
>>So which is it? He had no idea until Kyron came up missing or he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months of baby's birth?<<

Perhaps this is helpful... (http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/)
>>Kaine Horman says it was only after Kyron disappeared that he learned the extent of his marital problems. He says he found out Terri Horman had been complaining to friends behind his back for months about their marriage. But he says she rarely expressed those feelings to him.<<

As per "he thought his marriage had fractured within 6 months..." Well, in my experience of 40+ years married to the same person, fractures AND repairs have happened many times (did I say MANY?) Having seen fractures, both I and my husband wondered about divorce, but always hoped for healing. Kaine might have seen a fracture, but hoped for the best.

Personally, I can see how it could be possible for Kaine to express both that he had "no idea" until Kyron went missing AND that he noticed some type of fracture at 6 months after baby K was born.

Hope the above is helpful.

cypress
07-11-2010, 11:31 AM
I think the way this is worded may be deceiving, although unintentionally so on the part of the bio parents. Earlier leaked LE reports stated that Terri's cell phone pings contradicted where she said she'd been that day. If she told LE she simply couldn't remember where she was, then how would there be contradictory reports? Pings would be able to place her somewhere, but it wouldn't contradict what she'd said because she would've said she didn't remember where she'd been.

IMHO, this is a case of semantics, much like Desiree's assertion that Terri isn't cooperating.

When Desiree was eventually asked to clarify what she meant by Terri not cooperating, she said it meant that Terri wasn't contacting LE with a statement about how to find Kyron. Similarly, in this case, IMHO, I think Desiree is saying Terri can't remember where she was not because she told police she can't remember anything about where she went that day, because I do believe she told them early on where she went; it's more about evidence they now have contradicting where she'd previously said she was that day.

For The Kids
07-11-2010, 11:32 AM
I know that's likely true. stranger things have happened though :( I dont want to believe a precious child is irretrievably gone til I have to KWIM?

Look at the case we had here with Shannon Matthews. It IS possible someone could be holding Kyron for her...although maybe unlikely.

raeann
07-11-2010, 11:33 AM
I agree with Jensen's statement as far as saying "you might as well say 'I'm lying'" because that's what came to my own mind immediately.

You might now know the exact times you were at X and Y, but you could certainly remember what places you went. JMO


That quote is actually really a bit humorous, since he himself was fired from the police department for LYING about money issues!

same link as above:
http://wweek.com/editorial/3018/4872/

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 11:39 AM
Y'll, I think too much is being read into body language. Example from this week in my life that is still troubling me, last week I was in a roundtable type meeting directly affecting the work that I do. I was taking notes, listening intently, and speaking at times but mostly letting others talk-- that was the point of the meeting. After the meeting, one board member told another, I seemed disengaged and not myself. The other board member said, "I had a lot on my mind due to my divorce." The first board member subsequently called me to inquire. I was floored and astounded. I wasn't disengaged, nothing was on my mind but the discussion and how to bring forth the points being made in an upcoming strategic planning session with the entire board. My divorce was three years ago! I've asked myself over and over, how on earth did they come up with those observations!! I've decided I need a face lift.

My observation is that pretty much everyone has personal issues....but absolutely nothing was on my mind in that regard or any other personal issue that day. This misobservation, hopefully won't but could have an effect on my future employment.

Terri is in a difficult spot. I hope she wasn't involved. I hope Kyron is alive.
Innocent or guilty, she just can't talk at this point. Recently, sorry I can't recall the name, a 20 year old cold case was solved here a month or so ago...a serial killer from out of state. Her fiance at the time, whom I know casually, was always the suspect, didn't do it and it always affected his life to a degree.
My daughter is a step-mother. She's a great one. Orginally, there was alot of animosity...then none...the step and the bio became friends. In May, the 17-year-old moved out on her own..my daughter had nothing to do with it but given the situation would have preferred if that was going to happen that the girl had come to live with her but she won't. The mother is blaming my daughter. My daughter was as astounded as the entire family when the girl left. My daughter, now divorced from the father, is praying for peace in the valley for all parties and that the seventeen year old doesn't throw a promising future away.

I have become a firm believer in body language "reading". Some people think they can read body language and get it all wrong based on PRIOR perceptions or knowledge or even personal feelings they have about the person, sounds like what happened in your case with the meeting. I find it easier to spot stuff when I am interested in a "case" and see videos, etc like in this case with Kyron. But I don't know any of these people personally and have no pre-conceived notions about any of them. Its like a blank slate. Its much easier for me to read a "blank slate" view of body language than it is to, say, sit with all my kids and their spouses while they sit around and talk and "get something" from their body language In fact I rarely take body language into consideration in my everyday RL unless it IS a true crime case or some crap on TV like clips of Lindsay Lohan in court, etc. I do admit when I have already decided a person is guilty of a crime and then I see their body language in a video, my preconceived notion they are guilty make me watch their body language and say ah-hah! That there was a sign of guilt! I need to hone my skills a little better. I think its a fascinating subject.

nyvictoria
07-11-2010, 11:40 AM
I bizarrely feel angry! I struggled to be fair in my thoughts and only base my opinions on the facts that have been released.

I feel like I wasted a lot of "I dont know, this sounds suspicious but I need more facts" when in FACT I suspected from the first headline I read.

although.....this doesnt mean the outcome must yet be terrible.....please TH, I hope you have only hidden him away somewhere safe....

You summed up my feelings perfectly!!

southern_scout
07-11-2010, 11:41 AM
Along the lines of "who would hide him for her?" thinking... Is it at all possible that she's spun a story to a close friend about some made-up infraction/abuse by Kaine, or something nefarious involving Kaine (not anything true, mind you) thinking that if this "hit" she put out him came to pass, she could chalk it up to her story and tell the friend "I told you so, see, I was protecting Kyron". Just wildly speculating, MOO. Trying to make a scenario where Kyron is alive and being hidden work in my mind.

Emeralgem
07-11-2010, 11:46 AM
I'm now convinced Kyron's disappearance has absolutely nothing to do with TH givng a damn about his well being...I'm really scared to think what she may have done to him...That woman's heart is cold as ice...JMO..

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 11:49 AM
Rumors are anything you can't back up with links...... Do not rumor, do not discuss inside information unless you have been cleared with Tricia as a certified local. Do not rumor about affairs.

What does this do to bring Kyron home? TO's for any rumors.

But Grandma, when we have someone that says one thing and then later adds another thing, cant we speculate that what one thing that was said and the other thing go together to give us a possible picture of what was going on? I am having a hard time differentiating between what we are allowed to speculate BASED ON FACTS WE ALREADY KNOW and what is rumor. I know is RUMOR per se that Kaine had affair with Terri. But when Desiree says terri was NOT her friend and then adds Terri lied about how she met Kaine, thats almost begging for some speculation. I certainly don't want a TO (please God, NO!) but I am having a hard time staying within the rules when I am speculating based on facts. Please help!!!!

southern_scout
07-11-2010, 11:51 AM
I know, my gut says the same thing. And I was not saying she *was* concerned about his well being, but that could be a story she spun to a friend. I think it's pretty clear at this point, with the silence, the lies, the possible hit, that she's not concerned with anyone's well being but her own. Which is terribly sad, considering she has other children to think about. MOO

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 11:51 AM
It IS an interesting theory, but I don't think it was Terri's intention to sue the school for $$ and that's why she choose to take Kyron away when the school was supposed to be responsible for his safety at that time. I think she took him then because to her it was a perfect way to get rid of him and have the blame put on the school instead of on her. The suing and money issue was secondary, and maybe didn't even occur to Terri at the time. I am under the impression Kaine made decent salary and there was really no need for Terri to pull off such a stunt merely for the possible lawsuit that might ensue later.
I am sure Terri thought she was so clever in her plan that nobody would even suspect she was involved. Boy, was she mistaken.

It's likely that it wouldn't be Terri to benefit from such a lawsuit anyway. Probably no money would be coming the stepmother's way, and if she was planning to end her marriage in a more or less dramatic manner shortly she might not see any of Kaine's money either because litigation takes a lot of time. .

WhyaDuck?
07-11-2010, 11:59 AM
It's likely that it wouldn't be Terri to benefit from such a lawsuit anyway. Probably no money would be coming the stepmother's way, and if she was planning to end her marriage in a more or less dramatic manner shortly she might not see any of Kaine's money either because litigation takes a lot of time. .

However, if she was planning on inheriting everything from KH's estate, this would not be a bad idea to make sure it was bigger.

IF she thought LE was a bunch of complete incompetents.

SuziQ
07-11-2010, 12:00 PM
I think she did give LE an alibi at the beginning, but they checked into it and found conflicting information. When they confronted her, it probably went something like this "Oh wait... that's right... I wasn't... oops... where was I again... ummm... I can't really remember... tell you in 10 days?"

This is exactly what I think happened.

eyes4crime
07-11-2010, 12:00 PM
It just occured to me while watching this video again about Kaine and Desiree.
They are talking about Terri failing the LTD, and being very vocal about it, funny how they believed her on that one!

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

Good point - believing Terri seems to be on a PRN (as needed) basis. How convenient! :angel: jmo

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 12:05 PM
It's likely that it wouldn't be Terri to benefit from such a lawsuit anyway. Probably no money would be coming the stepmother's way, and if she was planning to end her marriage in a more or less dramatic manner shortly she might not see any of Kaine's money either because litigation takes a lot of time. .

First they would have to find Kyrons body. Then Terri would have to absolutely eliminated as a possible person of interest in his disappearance, which at this time seems to be difficult/ impossible to do. Then down the road, if Terri was cleared, a lawsuit might be started. You are right, it wold take years. If her intention was to keep Kaine around long enough for a lawsuit to happen so she cold reap the benefits (via the money being Kaine's and she apparently had some carte blanche with his paycheck, or access to is money, as she wasn't gainfully employed ) she would then either have to live w/ a man she previously wanted killed, so she could reap the benefits of the "wealth" from a lawsuit payout, or she would then plan to have him killed (again). So the money would be all hers, I suppose. I think such a plan would definately get her back in the spotlight and there would be little doubt she had something to do with her husbands death. Also, I don't think Terri is that smart. Devious, maybe, but I don't think she plans that far in advance. IMO based on what stupid moves she has made so far. JMO

nyvictoria
07-11-2010, 12:08 PM
If Kyron is allergic to bee stings, why would DY call it a silly little thing ? Lying about a bee sting if the boy is allergic to them is not a silly little thing!
Allergies to bee stings can be fatal if not treated.

Maybe Terri told DY she realized Kyron was allergic to bee stings? Maybe the lie was that he was allergic? I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud here.

Aedrys
07-11-2010, 12:11 PM
First they would have to find Kyrons body. Then Terri would have to absolutely eliminated as a possible person of interest in his disappearance, which at this time seems to be difficult/ impossible to do. Then down the road, if Terri was cleared, a lawsuit might be started. You are right, it wold take years. If her intention was to keep Kaine around long enough for a lawsuit to happen so she cold reap the benefits (via the money being Kaine's and she apparently had some carte blanche with his paycheck, or access to is money, as she wasn't gainfully employed ) she would then either have to live w/ a man she previously wanted killed, so she could reap the benefits of the "wealth" from a lawsuit payout, or she would then plan to have him killed (again). So the money would be all hers, I suppose. I think such a plan would definately get her back in the spotlight and there would be little doubt she had something to do with her husbands death. Also, I don't think Terri is that smart. Devious, maybe, but I don't think she plans that far in advance. IMO based on what stupid moves she has made so far. JMO

I've seen a lot of criminals that aren't that smart and thought they could get away with doing things. I do think you're right that she didn't plan this far enough in advance. She seems to have done little planning since things are unraveling so fast for her. I can't tell if she just wasn't smart, or she deluded herself into thinking she had this grand scheme that couldn't possibly fail. I think she thought she was smarter than she actually is. Or maybe like someone else, only plans ten minutes in advance at a time.

Wrinkles
07-11-2010, 12:11 PM
It just occured to me while watching this video again about Kaine and Desiree.
They are talking about Terri failing the LTD, and being very vocal about it, funny how they believed her on that one!

http://videos.oregonlive.com/oregonian/2010/07/kyron_hormans_parents_share_de.html

Funny? I'm not guffawing. I guess I don't find this funny under the circumstances. I bet Kaine and Desiree wanted to puke at Terri's LDT news. My bet is that they contacted LE for help with what they heard from her before believing it.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Good point - believing Terri seems to be on a PRN (as needed) basis. How convenient! :angel: jmo

I think common sense comes to play here, more than convenience.

Maybe someone could tell me ONE convincing and plausible reason why someone who was told that she had passed her LDT would lie that she failed it and make up excuses for her failure, but I bet Desiree, Kaine and Tony could not see any.
Are there any prior examples of this happening?

I can think of lots of reasons to say you passed even if you failed but why would you lie the other way around? Just to play mind games and torment your already tormented family?

It wouldn't exactly make her look good either. :cow:

Wrinkles
07-11-2010, 12:21 PM
If Kyron is highly allergic to bee stings, maybe Terri made up a story to Desiree about Kyron being stung and Terri came to the rescue promptly with the epi pen and "saved his lfe". Almost a Munchausen type thing, except the part about him really being stung was possibly a made-up lie. "Look at what a superior mother I am to your son, he was stung and I saved his life..." Maybe Desiree questioned Kyron, after-the-fact,and found out it was all BS and Kyron never got stung at all. Maybe that's the story of her lying about the bee sting...???? As usual, all speculation on my part. so JMO.
Maybe Terri felt that next to Desiree, she was not as good of a mother as Desiree.. Maybe Terri felt he need to rub in Desires face what a wonderful mother she was. Maybe she secretly WANTED Desiree to feel like she was "left out" of he day to day life of Kyron.

Hello Abbie,

I can't get my thanks button to work... wanted to let you know I appreciated your input here. Last night I wondered if any of the receipts from the stores -- those connected to her bank cards -- had epi pins listed for purchase.

Thanks again for your thoughtful post.

AnaTeresa
07-11-2010, 12:22 PM
Funny? I'm not guffawing. I guess I don't find this funny under the circumstances. I bet Kaine and Desiree wanted to puke at Terri's LDT news. My bet is that they contacted LE for help with what they heard from her before believing it.

I believe Mylou meant funny in the sense of irony, or an odd occurrence, or something that pricks the mind (hinky), rather than "ha ha" funny. I feel it's rather clear in the context of her statement that she found the situation a bit off, rather than funny in the sense of humor. Calling something funny like this is a fairly common manner of speaking, at least in my part of the US.

I, too, find the situation odd. I'm not sure what TMH was saying when she was "very vocal" about failing the lie detector test, but I can imagine situations in which an innocent person could fail and rail against it. I can also imagine situations where a guilty person would attempt to spin the situation. Still, I find her forthrightness about failing it to be odd, just as I find KH and DY's reactions and statements to the situation to be odd (or funny, as some would phrase it).

gardeness
07-11-2010, 12:23 PM
I agree with Jensen's statement as far as saying "you might as well say 'I'm lying'" because that's what came to my own mind immediately.

You might not know the exact times you were at X and Y, but you could certainly remember what places you went. JMO

ETA: And once you listed the places, the times would fall into place. Again JMO.

I just don't know...with the short timeline, many are speculating that TH had to have pre-planned this whole ordeal. If so, wouldn't she have pre-planned her responses for what she did that day?

It bothers me that we don't know the entire context of her "not remembering". The interviewer in the video says, "for several hours"--that means, IMO, that Terri remembered and reported her memory on June 4. Are people who were "responsible" for a child when the child goes missing not allowed some time to calm down, collect their thoughts, then write out or verbalize their day?

kant
07-11-2010, 12:24 PM
I know, right? I have wonderful friends and family and there is no way in hades any of them would hide my child for me unless some Mexican cartel or Mafia gangsters were after her. And even then, they'd tell me to go to the FBI or something.

In my opinion, TH knows exactly what happened to Kyron and where he is. She needs to tell LE what happened.

...or how about an illegal, or dangerous, or fill-in-the-blank cartel of unspecified ethnicity, nationality?

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 12:26 PM
I think common sense comes to play here, more than convenience.

Maybe someone could tell me ONE convincing and plausible reason why someone who was told that she had passed her LDT would lie that she failed it and make up excuses for her failure, but I bet Desiree, Kaine and Tony could not see any.
Are there any prior examples of this happening?

I can think of lots of reasons to say you passed even if you failed but why would you lie the other way around? Just to play mind games and torment your already tormented family?

It wouldn't exactly make her look good either. :cow:

She knew she failed, and she has also been described by people who know her very well as a consummate liar about things large and small. MAybe she knew she failed and that news was going to come ot, so she was "running interference: by first telling everyone she failed then coming up with what she probaby thought was brilliant lies about WHY she failed, all probably pointing out to them that its NOT HER FAULT. For example perhaps she said she fels guilty cos she was the last to see Kyron alive, and the lie detector picks up her guilt and perceives that as deception.

I am kind of fascinated in a sick ind of way, I guess, about these kinds of people who lie on a regular basis like she is said to have done. I had a neighbor whose husband was like that. When I met his wife, who I later became friends with, she flat out told me her husband lies all the time and don't believe anything he says. As I got to know him I saw it was true, the man lied 99% of the time, and even about dumb chit. Unnecessary lies. And while hanging out with them, and having conversations, etc she would regularly call him out when he lied, right in front of people. Yet he did it all the time.
What is this "condition" called? Is it a menal disorder or jst a personality defect? He seemed to have no ability to control it. It also did not seem to bother him in the least that peeps knew he lied all the time, and he wasn't embarassed (or didn't appear to be) when she would call him out in front of others.

AnaTeresa
07-11-2010, 12:28 PM
It bothers me that we don't know the entire context of her "not remembering". The interviewer in the video says, "for several hours"--that means, IMO, that Terri remembered and reported her memory on June 4. Are people who were "responsible" for a child when the child goes missing not allowed some time to calm down, collect their thoughts, then write out or verbalize their day?

Very true. I can easily imagine a hysterical, innocent parent needing time to calm down to remember. When I am upset or very stressed, I sometimes have difficulty recalling things precisely.

I really wish KH and DY were spending more time talking about Kyron, instead of focusing on TMH's "guilt." I am incredibly sympathetic to their plight - I can't imagine the stress a parent would be under while their child is missing. But I feel like many of these statements are taking the focus off of Kyron.

BetteDavisEyes
07-11-2010, 12:28 PM
I'm now convinced Kyron's disappearance has absolutely nothing to do with TH givng a damn about his well being...I'm really scared to think what she may have done to him...That woman's heart is cold as ice...JMO..

I'm not sure that woman even has a heart. She might need to make a trip to Oz to see the Wizard :D jmo

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 12:29 PM
I believe Mylou meant funny in the sense of irony, or an odd occurrence, or something that pricks the mind (hinky), rather than "ha ha" funny. I feel it's rather clear in the context of her statement that she found the situation a bit off, rather than funny in the sense of humor. Calling something funny like this is a fairly common manner of speaking, at least in my part of the US.

I, too, find the situation odd. I'm not sure what TMH was saying when she was "very vocal" about failing the lie detector test, but I can imagine situations in which an innocent person could fail and rail against it. I can also imagine situations where a guilty person would attempt to spin the situation. Still, I find her forthrightness about failing it to be odd, just as I find KH and DY's reactions and statements to the situation to be odd (or funny, as some would phrase it).

I don't really see what's "funny" about Kaine and Desiree's reactions about Terri's revelations. They seem to have felt that her behavior was off somehow and not having been there I don't have the facts to disagree with them.

As for Terri, she may simply have thought that LE would tell her family that she failed the LDTs so it would be no use lying about it and she was vocal about it to try to get her excuses across before LE got to her family.

SurfieTX
07-11-2010, 12:29 PM
On reason I can think of for TH to be "very vocal" about failing the LD test is so that she could try to convince her friends and family that LE were all a bunch of bumbling idiots. IOW, friends/family should be trusting HER and looking to HER for the answers, not LE. It seems that ruse worked pretty well for the first couple of days/weeks.

southern_scout
07-11-2010, 12:30 PM
I just don't know...with the short timeline, many are speculating that TH had to have pre-planned this whole ordeal. If so, wouldn't she have pre-planned her responses for what she did that day?


Ahhh! Good pont.

gardeness
07-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Another point--from the moment Kaine and Terri realized that Kyron was missing, did they have any (for lack of a better word) peace? I picture them rushing around, making phone calls, going up to the school, being surrounded by people--complete chaos. Busy. Desiree and Tony had, what, a four-hour drive? While also in turmoil, they had time with their thoughts and reflections. I don't think Kaine and Terri had that. When the questioning began, did Kaine have to detail his day at work, or was "I was at work, call my boss" sufficient? If he had to detail his day, would he have been able to do so at that moment?

ETA: In referring to "detail his day", I mean his work day--all of the tasks he completed while at work.

TxLady2
07-11-2010, 12:37 PM
I don't know how it works, when people are so allergic to bees or wasps that it can be fatal. Is it only if they are stung multiple times by multiple bees? Or will just one sting kill them?
I don't know anyone who doesn't have some kind of allergic reaction to a bee or wasp sting... it affects everyone to some degree. I've never been stung by a bee, AFAIK, but a wasp sting will be very painful and make me deathly ill for hours, but my hubby hardly has a reaction at all.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 12:39 PM
It bothers me that we don't know the entire context of her "not remembering". The interviewer in the video says, "for several hours"--that means, IMO, that Terri remembered and reported her memory on June 4. Are people who were "responsible" for a child when the child goes missing not allowed some time to calm down, collect their thoughts, then write out or verbalize their day?

IMO the remark about several hours on the video means that there is a gap of several hours that she is unable to explain what she did on the day of Kyron's disappearance, not that she took several hours to come up with her story the day Kyron disappeared.

We wouldn't still be having this conversation a month into the disappearance if she'd told the police the complete story after collecting her thoughts for a few hours or a day or two, IMO.

BlOnDe_GuRrL
07-11-2010, 12:39 PM
I just don't know...with the short timeline, many are speculating that TH had to have pre-planned this whole ordeal. If so, wouldn't she have pre-planned her responses for what she did that day?

It bothers me that we don't know the entire context of her "not remembering". The interviewer in the video says, "for several hours"--that means, IMO, that Terri remembered and reported her memory on June 4. Are people who were "responsible" for a child when the child goes missing not allowed some time to calm down, collect their thoughts, then write out or verbalize their day?

I know... right! Who goes through the trouble of having this elaborate plan to kidnap a child.. but then doesn't think to plan out what to say to the cops!
The more time they waste on her, the more time goes by that they could be searching other avenues..

Aedrys
07-11-2010, 12:42 PM
I just don't know...with the short timeline, many are speculating that TH had to have pre-planned this whole ordeal. If so, wouldn't she have pre-planned her responses for what she did that day?

It bothers me that we don't know the entire context of her "not remembering". The interviewer in the video says, "for several hours"--that means, IMO, that Terri remembered and reported her memory on June 4. Are people who were "responsible" for a child when the child goes missing not allowed some time to calm down, collect their thoughts, then write out or verbalize their day?

Or maybe she just thought she could lie her way through them. I know it doesn't make much sense, but if she thought her lies were working before this, then I'm pretty sure she thought her lies would continue to work after this. Plus, people don't realize how complicated things get when a missing child enters the picture. She probably didn't realize how detailed of a story she'd have to come up with. She probably thought she could throw a few lies out there, and she'd be believed. I think she's stunned and disappointed that her lies aren't working like they usually do.

Makes me wonder if all those years that DH and KH gave the TH the illusion they believed her lies, and maybe it was only behind TH's back or in their minds they were thinking or talking about what a bad liar she was. The way it sounds is that DY, to keep up family harmony for the sake of Kyron, probably didn't call out TH much or at all on her lies. And KH may have been a bit suspicious, but never called her out on lies either because he probably wanted to believe more that she wasn't lying. So she probably thought she was doing a good job of fooling the both of them when she wasn't.

Also, a lot of the time, people don't confront other people on their lies unless it's something severe or over the line, so that makes the liar think that they are good at telling lies and fooling people. Plus it's exhausting to keep calling someone out on their lies when they keep doing it over and over again. Some people just let the liar think they believe them because it's easier to do that than call the liar out on their lies. Unfortunately, this makes the liar think they're good at lying, so they keep doing it. And in some cases, they think they're so good that they can even fool LE, which I haven't seen work yet.

I'm just saying, not everyone pre-plans every detail because they don't think they need to, or think they can lie their way through it easily. And then they find out just how wrong they were when what they did plan or what lies they told end up not working. It seems to me TH really thought she'd be believed and no one would ever suspect her of having anything to do with Kyron missing. All IMO, of course.

Emeralgem
07-11-2010, 12:42 PM
BBM

But the police do not have the evidence. If they did, Terri would be in jail.

I suspect they have evidence, just not enough yet to arrest her... But I believe they are working on it... even IF she doesn't tell the truth and they can't find Kyron....JMO

gardeness
07-11-2010, 12:43 PM
IMO the remark about several hours on the video means that there is a gap of several hours that she is unable to explain what she did on the day of Kyron's disappearance, not that she took several hours to come up with her story the day Kyron disappeared.

We wouldn't still be having this conversation a month into the disappearance if she'd told the police the complete story after collecting her thoughts for a few hours or a day or two, IMO.
BBM

But...we're only talking about a four-hour timeline for Terri--from 9 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. There couldn't be a several-hour-gap in there...

citigirl
07-11-2010, 12:45 PM
Thanks for reminding us about the bee sting. Makes me think Desiree's early interview informing everyone about Kyron's allergy to bee stings was aimed directly at Terri--to remind her of a lie she once told. I wonder if the glasses comment Desiree was also suppoed to be a reminder to Terri about something.

Aedrys
07-11-2010, 12:46 PM
BBM

But...we're only talking about a four-hour timeline for Terri--from 9 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. There couldn't be a several-hour-gap in there...

If she took that picture at the science fair early enough, and then left with Kyron, yes, there could be a several hour gap there. Last time I checked, three or four hours is considered several hours. Plus, I'm not even thinking she would need several hours to begin with to do something with Kyron, but if she's not remembering what she did for several hours, or lied to LE about what she did for several hours, that's a problem.

SurfieTX
07-11-2010, 12:47 PM
Or maybe she just thought she could lie her way through them. I know it doesn't make much sense, but if she thought her lies were working before this, then I'm pretty sure she thought her lies would continue to work after this.

Totally reminds me of Scott Peterson. He was so adept at lying that I don't think he even considered his lies to ever fail him and his agenda. Another thing, having experienced living with a liar, is that when you are lied to so much, you really start to doubt yourself and your intuition. Plus when you love that person, you don't really WANT to believe that they could do this to you. You want them to be honest and loving. It's a very hard pill to swallow once you realize you have been "had" for many years.

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 12:47 PM
Very true. I can easily imagine a hysterical, innocent parent needing time to calm down to remember. When I am upset or very stressed, I sometimes have difficulty recalling things precisely.

I really wish KH and DY were spending more time talking about Kyron, instead of focusing on TMH's "guilt." I am incredibly sympathetic to their plight - I can't imagine the stress a parent would be under while their child is missing. But I feel like many of these statements are taking the focus off of Kyron.

BBM. I respectfully disagree, I think the focus is still and always has been on KYRON. None of us forget him, God knows hes on my mind all day long everyday. Were I in the Portland area, I would be looking for him myself.
But, I am on the other side of the country and on a message board and all I can do (which is what I love to do) is sit and try to put the pieces of the puzzle together, until some physically finds this child. I am powerless to help make that happen in any way. All I can do is speculate and try to figure out who when why where and how. All I can do is take media accounts and LE statements and statements made by DY and KH and try to figure out what could have happened. I have no illusions that I am going to solve this case. I have no power to help find Kyron. My own way of remembering him and keeping his face and memory out there forever until he is found is to sit here and try to put the pieces together as best I can. And post my feeling theories and thoughts. Its all I can do. Why else would I be here?

seeking truth
07-11-2010, 12:54 PM
ITA. My question is why didn't he notice something was wrong with their marriage, IF indeed there was?

My opinion onlyMaybe Kaine noticed that Terri was behaving differently. He was aware she was suffering from PPD. Most of us would not make the leap in thinking regarding the accusations against Terri that exist now. Blaming the husband for not knowing what was going on in his wife's head? Blaming the man whose child has been "disappeared" by the woman he was married to and thought he could trust? Blaming a man who has been "blindsided" by the fact that the woman he loved had recently attempted to hire someone to murder him?

Of course this is a free and open board, not to mention, society. I'm not contesting your right to your personal opinions and questions, nor your right to have them and express them. I am surprised, though, that there is a possible attempt to blame Kaine for not knowing what was wrong in his marriage and what that implies in terms of Kyron's "disappearance.".

IF there was something wrong with the marriage? Apparently in Terri's mind there was.

Just my opinions and thoughts on this subject.

Donjeta
07-11-2010, 12:56 PM
BBM

But...we're only talking about a four-hour timeline for Terri--from 9 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. There couldn't be a several-hour-gap in there...

Well, say she lied about three or four hours of that time, that could IMO be called several, particularly if the reporter doesn't have exact information about how many hours exactly are in question.

This is what the video says:

During the same interview Desiree Young shared for the first time that she knew that Terri was unable to account to the police for her actions for several hours on June 4th, the day Kyron went missing.

I can tell you what I ate that day and she can't tell you where she was.

Probably the most disturbing thing is, on this day when this child disappeared, you don't know where you are, you might as well say you're lying, that's ridiculous.


Desiree is speaking in present tense, indicating that Terri is still unable to tell you what she did, not just in the first hour or two of questioning, and I think the opening sentence is to be parsed as "for her actions for several hours" instead of "unable to account to the police for several hours".

Just moo though.

AbbieNormal
07-11-2010, 01:03 PM
BBM

But...we're only talking about a four-hour timeline for Terri--from 9 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. There couldn't be a several-hour-gap in there...

Thats why I say she is FOS about "not remembering" where she was. If this was a well thought out crime she would have receipts, video of herself in stores, or whatever, to PROVE later on where she was and what she was doing in that time period. She apparently didn't get that far in her planning of this crime.
Yes, ok she was "under pressure, things were chaotic and possibly she got confused (which I don;t really believe in her case, think shes just lying) but anyway maybe it was hard for ALL of them to immediately recall their whole day. I have bad bad memory problems stemming from my coma, and I forget things all the time. I have to write notes to myself to remember a lot of stuff. My husband will tell me something and its like I am hearing it for the first time, yet he says he already told it to me weeks ago. My memory is crap. BUT I recently ran a whole day of errands. Last week, in fact. I would have NO PROBLEM remembering, even under pressure, where I was and what I was doing. Plus I have receipts. I don't think for one minute she has selective convienent forgetfulness about here she was during those critical hrs of 9am to 1pm. She has a history of lying, not a history of forgetfullness.

Mylou
07-11-2010, 01:05 PM
I believe Mylou meant funny in the sense of irony, or an odd occurrence, or something that pricks the mind (hinky), rather than "ha ha" funny. I feel it's rather clear in the context of her statement that she found the situation a bit off, rather than funny in the sense of humor. Calling something funny like this is a fairly common manner of speaking, at least in my part of the US.



Thank you, thats exactly what I meant.

seeking truth
07-11-2010, 01:07 PM
Very true. I can easily imagine a hysterical, innocent parent needing time to calm down to remember. When I am upset or very stressed, I sometimes have difficulty recalling things precisely.

I really wish KH and DY were spending more time talking about Kyron, instead of focusing on TMH's "guilt." I am incredibly sympathetic to their plight - I can't imagine the stress a parent would be under while their child is missing. But I feel like many of these statements are taking the focus off of Kyron.BBM

How in the world does talking about Kyron help find him? Talking about WHO is responsible for his "disappearance" is much more likely to bring answers in this case. Desiree and Kaine are working closely with LE; they have stated this and no one in LE has contested this. I feel confident that the tactics they are using in their media appearances are all being influenced by what LE is telling them and advising them.

I do not understand exactly what people mean when they say "keep the focus on Kyron." How in the world would it help, at this point, to sit around discussing how cute he is, how shy he is, or anything else about him?

We know what he looks like, we've heard, (as Desiree herself pointed out) all Kinds of things about his personality.

The focus on Kyron should be anything that points to what happened to him and who did it. It's pretty clear where that focus needs to be.

MY OPINION

Aedrys
07-11-2010, 01:12 PM
Thanks for reminding us about the bee sting. Makes me think Desiree's early interview informing everyone about Kyron's allergy to bee stings was aimed directly at Terri--to remind her of a lie she once told. I wonder if the glasses comment Desiree was also suppoed to be a reminder to Terri about something.

Holy Moly, I hadn't even thought about that. So releasing the bee sting and the birthmark, and the glasses comment, was probably a psychological tactic. A way of saying, see, we KNOW you're lying, the gig is up, TH! See, I always figured these things were directed at TH, but not why until now. Calling her out on her lies in a way like this surely is making TH mad, I bet. And only she would know these are lies she's told. Very clever.

wondering1
07-11-2010, 01:12 PM
I suspect they have evidence, just not enough yet to arrest her... But I believe they are working on it... even IF she doesn't tell the truth and they can't find Kyron....JMO

They may even have enough to arrest her. Just not enough for a slam dunk conviction. They may believe she's more useful to them out than in (the KH/DY full court press in the media points to this, imo). Plus the fact that they still haven't found Kyron. She wouldn't be the first criminal that did something stupid after the fact while under LE surveillance, and it seems to me like they're trying to push her in that direction.