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View Full Version : Methods of putting pressure on a POI (aka "strategy")



JenB
07-09-2010, 09:34 AM
If this is being discussed elsewhere, please move the thread as you see fit.

Given KH and DY's long pause when asked about possible accomplices, I wonder if some of their media strategy isn't geared toward another person, in addition to Terri.

It stood out to me that The Oregonian and Willamette Week were two publications pointed out as not "playing nice," and were asked to leave press conferences last week... but it appears KH is giving exclusive interviews to these pubs this week. I wonder if last week's shunning of these outlets was part of a plan that's no longer necessary.

Because the media strategy employed in this case is so different that what I've seen before, I wonder if a discussion of it might provide a useful case study for the future. I've seen people posting about new strategies being used in this case, as though there is a new standard being rolled out to LE for use in dealing with the media in missing persons cases -- is this part of it?

Again, if this thread is inappropriate please move it -- it's my first new thread and I'm nervous!

AbbieNormal
07-09-2010, 11:47 AM
If this is being discussed elsewhere, please move the thread as you see fit.

Given KH and DY's long pause when asked about possible accomplices, I wonder if some of their media strategy isn't geared toward another person, in addition to Terri.

It stood out to me that The Oregonian and Willamette Week were two publications pointed out as not "playing nice," and were asked to leave press conferences last week... but it appears KH is giving exclusive interviews to these pubs this week. I wonder if last week's shunning of these outlets was part of a plan that's no longer necessary.

Because the media strategy employed in this case is so different that what I've seen before, I wonder if a discussion of it might provide a useful case study for the future. I've seen people posting about new strategies being used in this case, as though there is a new standard being rolled out to LE for use in dealing with the media in missing persons cases -- is this part of it?

Again, if this thread is inappropriate please move it -- it's my first new thread and I'm nervous!

Oh Jen you little sweetie you did great with a first thread IMO.
I would love to know what LE's "strategy" is. It appears that Terri is following In Casey and Mistys footsteps and just clamming up and saying NOTHING. I pray LE has secret tricks to use on peeps who just will not talk. I see on TV shows how cops work and work on people until they break. In the little bit of presser I got to see yesterday some LE officer said Terri is no longer cooperating and by that he said he meant she is not calling them with helpful info. I hope they are not "waiting" for her to call them, FGS.
That ain't gonna happen IMO> I know she has lawyered up, but can't they still call her to come in (with her atty) and question her, lay out the evidence they have and show her that all points to her, implore upon her to do the right thing....let her know shes screwed anyway and is going to be going away to jail, eventually, for quite awhile so she is gaining nothing by not telling the location of Kyron. Maybe give her some kindof "deal" (as much as I hate to say that) to tell them where this child is so his family can have closure.
She has ruined her life, surely she knows that. Theres no un-doing what shes done, she has lost her baby forever and her oldest son probably has zero respect for her, she surely must know that. She is at a point where shes painted herself into a corner and the only way out is to be honest and co-operate with LE. Hopefully her lawyer is advising her the same thing. There's no way shes getting "out of this" I don;t care how good her atty is.

I don't know what she thinks she is gaining by sitting in KAINES house and saying and doing nothing. Does she think she can hole up there forever and this will just "go away"? I think she needs a serious check-up from the neck-up, she can't be mentally "right".

These are my thoughts right now and JMO.

abbie

BetteDavisEyes
07-09-2010, 11:59 AM
This is part of a post that I made last night on another thread:

I believe that LE has moved very stealthfully in this delicate family situation, and I think that they are slowly, but surely, backing Terri into a corner. She will eventually find herself in a trap of her own making and will either give up Kyron's location or take her own life. I'm sure that we would all prefer the former so that Kyron can be brought home, hopefully alive and well, because the latter would not benefit anyone. jmo

Kimster
07-09-2010, 12:00 PM
JenB, I almost started a thread last night with this very same topic and got busy and forgot! Thank you - great first thread! :wink:

I'm looking forward to the discussion!

darlin gal
07-09-2010, 12:03 PM
This morning on the early show they both said they wouldn't be surprised if someone else is involved. In fact they hoped there was because that could mean Kyron was being taken care of by someone.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6661870n&tag=related;photovideo

cypress
07-09-2010, 12:19 PM
This is part of a post that I made last night on another thread:

I believe that LE has moved very stealthfully in this delicate family situation, and I think that they are slowly, but surely, backing Terri into a corner. She will eventually find herself in a trap of her own making and will either give up Kyron's location or take her own life. I'm sure that we would all prefer the former so that Kyron can be brought home, hopefully alive and well, because the latter would not benefit anyone. jmo

I agree that they're backing Terri into a corner, but I don't think they've been all that slow or stealthy about it.

From what we know, DY suspected her from the beginning. LE suspected her from the beginning. She was interrogated, polygraphed more than once, and her property and vehicles searched. There have been leaks that had to come from LE. A questionnaire was sent out primarily about her whereabouts the day Kyron went missing. DY and KH have publicly accused her of lying/not cooperating. She was the object of an undercover sting. Her husband has left her, filed for divorce, and taken their baby, a restraining order has been issued against her, and she'll likely be forced out of the family home.

cypress
07-09-2010, 12:22 PM
This morning on the early show they both said they wouldn't be surprised if someone else is involved. In fact they hoped there was because that could mean Kyron was being taken care of by someone.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=6661870n&tag=related;photovideo

If someone else is involved and Terri is aware of it insofar as she cooperated with the accomplice to abduct Kyron, and Kyron is alive, then I firmly believe Terri removed him from the home in a misguided attempt to protect him from something or someone.

tlcya
07-09-2010, 12:27 PM
I pray she HAS an accomplice IF Terrie was indeed involved with Kyron's disappearance. Because if not, after all the pressure and SCRUTINY from us, press, family, LE, if she acted alone in some sort attempt to hold Kyron away from his father, then that would suggest that she has been unable to check on/care for little Kyron for weeks now.

If she is involved I humbly pray she has an accomplice whois seeing to Kyron's phsyical well being.

azwriter
07-09-2010, 12:37 PM
If someone else is involved and Terri is aware of it insofar as she cooperated with the accomplice to abduct Kyron, and Kyron is alive, then I firmly believe Terri removed him from the home in a misguided attempt to protect him from something or someone.

Interesting thought cypress. But couldn't she just as easily gone to authorities if she suspected there was pending harm to Kyron. Certainly she could have saved him and hersef and her reputation.
However, with the news of her trying to set up a hit on her husband, if Terri did something to hurt or hide Kyron, she did it out of revenge or to hurt her husband and perhaps Kyron's mother. JMO

KeyboardCat
07-09-2010, 12:44 PM
I doubt that any specific angle of media coverage is used by law enforcement as any major strategy here. Maybe some leaks happened early on, I doubt it had anything to do with an orchestrated attempted to make Terri crack. The police and news reporters have a give and take relationship for mutual benefit. Maybe it was just one officer's turn to give, instead of take.

Law enforcement did try to make her not a suspect in public opinion early on. I guess it could be that they were hoping she would slip up, and do something incriminating while she felt that she wasn't being watched.

After Kaine filed for divorce and requested a restraining order, why he did those things was bound to come out. I think after the cat was out of the bag, there was no reason for his parents not to acknowledge to reporters their feelings and suspicions.

I don't think law enforcement put them up to it. I just don't see how anybody would think putting this woman into a pressure cooker would be best for Kyron, if he is still alive, and if she is responsible.

I can understand putting the heat on if its a fugitive, to force someone confess participation in a crime, or to do something incriminating under surveillance, if its only the perpetrator they are dealing with. But I -highly- doubt that would be a method used to smoke out a person responsible for hiding or handing off an abducted child. It would be too risky. People are way too unpredictable in extremely high stress situations. To me, it doesn't make sense.

AbbieNormal
07-09-2010, 12:54 PM
This is part of a post that I made last night on another thread:

I believe that LE has moved very stealthfully in this delicate family situation, and I think that they are slowly, but surely, backing Terri into a corner. She will eventually find herself in a trap of her own making and will either give up Kyron's location or take her own life. I'm sure that we would all prefer the former so that Kyron can be brought home, hopefully alive and well, because the latter would not benefit anyone. jmo

Amen, Bette. I totally agree. I hope she does not take her life because we may never find Kyron, just like poor Trenton Duckett. With her parents staying with her maybe that is keeping her from doing anything desperate, like suicide or fleeing. I hope LE has a car parked at the end of her drive, or in her drive, and she isn't getting out of their sight even for a second. She's got to be feeling intimidated, if shes capable of any 'normal' feelings.

Wondergirl
07-09-2010, 12:56 PM
How about the strategy of NOT putting pressue on a POI?

If the focus is on Terri, and the public tends to already believe, generally speaking, that the she is part of the reason Kyron is missing, wouldn't that allow LE to more readily investigate the real abductor?

I suppose there is not necessarily "one" investigation going on anyway. Parallel investigations, different theories, all being built or eliminated.

Where is Kyron?

AbbieNormal
07-09-2010, 12:59 PM
I pray she HAS an accomplice IF Terrie was indeed involved with Kyron's disappearance. Because if not, after all the pressure and SCRUTINY from us, press, family, LE, if she acted alone in some sort attempt to hold Kyron away from his father, then that would suggest that she has been unable to check on/care for little Kyron for weeks now.

If she is involved I humbly pray she has an accomplice whois seeing to Kyron's phsyical well being.

BBM that would be the answer to everyone's prayers. Someone posted last night they envisioned a press conference, Kaine and Desiree and Tony and Baby K, and Kyron standing on a milk crate to make him taller, all of them together, happy and alive, and when you get that vision in your mind, it really puts some gladness in your heart. At least it did for me.

AbbieNormal
07-09-2010, 01:06 PM
I doubt that any specific angle of media coverage is used by law enforcement as any major strategy here. Maybe some leaks happened early on, I doubt it had anything to do with an orchestrated attempted to make Terri crack. The police and news reporters have a give and take relationship for mutual benefit. Maybe it was just one officer's turn to give, instead of take.

Law enforcement did try to make her not a suspect in public opinion early on. I guess it could be that they were hoping she would slip up, and do something incriminating while she felt that she wasn't being watched.

After Kaine filed for divorce and requested a restraining order, why he did those things was bound to come out. I think after the cat was out of the bag, there was no reason for his parents not to acknowledge to reporters their feelings and suspicions.

I don't think law enforcement put them up to it. I just don't see how anybody would think putting this woman into a pressure cooker would be best for Kyron, if he is still alive, and if she is responsible.

I can understand putting the heat on if its a fugitive, to force someone confess participation in a crime, or to do something incriminating under surveillance, if its only the perpetrator they are dealing with. But I -highly- doubt that would be a method used to smoke out a person responsible for hiding or handing off an abducted child. It would be too risky. People are way too unpredictable in extremely high stress situations. To me, it doesn't make sense.

It doesn't feel to me like anyone else is involved, I don;t feel like she has an accomplice, but thats just my personal feeling and I realize I could be way off. I wish, if they feel she had help and Kyron is still alive out there being cared for, they would plead to whoever has him to drop him off somewhere, a hospital, anywhere safe, and let him retur to his family. They can worry about vcatching any accomplice later. All that matters now is getting Kyron back to his family, preferably alive, but if not, back to his family for closure.
JMO

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 01:21 PM
I guess Desiree finally admitted what I have thought all along...that they have to hope TH has an accomplice in order for hope to remain for Kyron. That is telling me, as I felt from the first time D spoke, that they do not have any "inside info" on Kyron being held someplace unknown to all. It is simply a desperate need to believe that he could be alive and well, and it is very sad that their only hope is that some wacko Terri hooked up with has their child.

I don't think LE is telling the parents what to say; I think the weeks of pressure have built up and they are erupting.

human
07-09-2010, 01:23 PM
I believe since the FBI is involved that there are profilers directing every statement and every media "leak".

Everyone wants Kyron back and they certainly aren't going to do anything that would compromise it. To imagine that Desiree or Kaine would risk their child's life just get some story out there seems ludicrous to me.

Would you shoot from the hip if profilers , FBI and LE were advising you?

Kimster
07-09-2010, 01:33 PM
I believe since the FBI is involved that there are profilers directing every statement and every media "leak".

Everyone wants Kyron back and they certainly aren't going to do anything that would compromise it. To imagine that Desiree or Kaine would risk their child's life just get some story out there seems ludicrous to me.

Would you shoot from the hip if profilers , FBI and LE were advising you?

I have to wonder what they plan to do next to apply more pressure.

KeyboardCat
07-09-2010, 01:35 PM
It doesn't feel to me like anyone else is involved, I don;t feel like she has an accomplice, but thats just my personal feeling and I realize I could be way off. I wish, if they feel she had help and Kyron is still alive out there being cared for, they would plead to whoever has him to drop him off somewhere, a hospital, anywhere safe, and let him retur to his family. They can worry about vcatching any accomplice later. All that matters now is getting Kyron back to his family, preferably alive, but if not, back to his family for closure.
JMO

I agree. Having someone hold a child to later be released defies all logic. Involving unnecessary people which could later incriminate her also defies logic.

I hate typing out these words... but I feel that if blessed Kyron is still alive, its because she sold him knowing she would never again know of his safety or whereabouts (and I feel that is improbable), or a real stranger danger abduction. And we all know the statistics of what happens to a child within the first few hours of that happening. I pray for his safe return, but its difficult to remain optimistic. That was my first gut reaction. My second reaction was thinking that with all the confusion over doctor appointments, an unorganized school day due to the fair, no working security cameras... someone has set up a huge lawsuit to Skyline Elementary.

AbbieNormal
07-09-2010, 02:01 PM
I have to wonder what they plan to do next to apply more pressure.

I have a few ideas but unfortunately none of them are legal in this country.
It infuriates me she is sitting silent about this and not doing the right thing. If she is not mentally messed up, then she is just plain evil to put those poor people through this. I have so much empathy for poor DY and KH, it makes my heart ache.

BetteDavisEyes
07-09-2010, 02:20 PM
... My second reaction was thinking that with all the confusion over doctor appointments, an unorganized school day due to the fair, no working security cameras... someone has set up a huge lawsuit to Skyline Elementary.

Respectfully edited. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (those of you who are old enough know what this means :D), I will repeat what I've said previously on a couple of threads.

If I were a parent who had a child/children at Skyline, I'd be getting very nervous about when and if there will be an arrest in this case. Unless there is some sound evidence that there isn't a child predator on the loose who abducted Kyron from the safety of his elementary school, I would be reluctant to send my child to Skyline come September (or whenever school starts in Portland).

The clock is ticking, and I hope that LE realizes that they have to assure the Skyline community that their children are not in danger because it is believed that this was a "family" situation gone bad. Without that reassurance, many parents are probably going to think twice about the safety of this close-knit school community. jmo

human
07-09-2010, 02:40 PM
Respectfully edited. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (those of you who are old enough know what this means :D), I will repeat what I've said previously on a couple of threads.

If I were a parent who had a child/children at Skyline, I'd be getting very nervous about when and if there will be an arrest in this case. Unless there is some sound evidence that there isn't a child predator on the loose who abducted Kyron from the safety of his elementary school, I would be reluctant to send my child to Skyline come September (or whenever school starts in Portland).

The clock is ticking, and I hope that LE realizes that they have to assure the Skyline community that their children are not in danger because it is believed that this was a "family" situation gone bad. Without that reassurance, many parents are probably going to think twice about the safety of this close-knit school community. jmo

I would be nervous about sending my child to any school.

I would imagine that Skyline will be the most tight of schools.

KeyboardCat
07-09-2010, 03:04 PM
Respectfully edited. At the risk of sounding like a broken record (those of you who are old enough know what this means :D), I will repeat what I've said previously on a couple of threads.

If I were a parent who had a child/children at Skyline, I'd be getting very nervous about when and if there will be an arrest in this case. Unless there is some sound evidence that there isn't a child predator on the loose who abducted Kyron from the safety of his elementary school, I would be reluctant to send my child to Skyline come September (or whenever school starts in Portland).

The clock is ticking, and I hope that LE realizes that they have to assure the Skyline community that their children are not in danger because it is believed that this was a "family" situation gone bad. Without that reassurance, many parents are probably going to think twice about the safety of this close-knit school community. jmo

If I remember correctly, the police did say in a press conference that there was no danger to the community in relation to Kyron's disappearance. I would think that if there was even a small chance of this being the result of a child predator, they would be morally, ethically, and maybe even legally responsible to not make that statement.

I doubt that anyone would be more concerned of the inconvenience caused to that school by putting their security reputation down the pooper than even the small possibility that it would prevent this from happening to another child.

If my memory isn't totally shot, they did reassure other parents.

KeyboardCat
07-09-2010, 03:11 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20007724-504083.html

snipped:

"It's not a search-and-rescue operation anymore," Gates said in a press conference.

He added that parents in the area need not take extra precautions with their children. Authorities have said since the earliest days of the investigation that they believe Kyron's disappearance was an isolated case.

"There is no reason to believe that the kids are in any danger here," Gates said.

BetteDavisEyes
07-09-2010, 03:24 PM
..."It's not a search-and-rescue operation anymore," Gates said in a press conference.

He added that parents in the area need not take extra precautions with their children. Authorities have said since the earliest days of the investigation that they believe Kyron's disappearance was an isolated case.

"There is no reason to believe that the kids are in any danger here," Gates said.

Respectfully edited. Yes, LE made this statement very early in the case - June 15. To date, July 9, there has been no arrest, no named suspect, no charges filed, no one in custody in the disappearance of Kyron Horman. I'm not sure that everyone in the Skyline community can feel positively certain that there is no danger to their children. If LE is convinced that this is an isolated case, they will need to act on their suspicions prior to the start of the school year. I would not feel that my child/children were guaranteed to be in a safe environment when little Kyron went missing without a trace from that building. jmo

passionflower
07-09-2010, 04:07 PM
I have noticed a couple things in he latest pressers.
1. DY does not wear "KYRON MISSING" shirt...........is she sending TH a message???
2. She called Kaine, "YOUR HUSBAND".........not Kyron's dad.
3. DY said she blames TH and thinks that TH had help.
Are these hidden messages to TH???

passionflower
07-09-2010, 04:13 PM
Another thought, LE may not pressure TH directly as in Trenton Ducket's case.
His mother took her secret to the grave with her by suicide.
If TH is mentally ill, the same thing could happen. JMOO

TxLady2
07-09-2010, 04:48 PM
If everything that has been put out in the media the past few days is a strategy by LE, then I have to say it is one of the strangest cases I've ever seen. I can't recall any LE allowing the parents to hold press conferences and answer approved questions or to reveal details regarding a case, (they passed LDT's and Terri failed hers.) I can't recall any family picking and choosing which media outlet is allowed into their circle. I can't recall LE encouraging the parents to openly accuse the "suspect" and make statements such as "She is a liar, and has lied ever since I've known her." This is just strange in so many ways.
While my heart breaks for the parents, I can't help but feel like they're backing Terri into a corner and it may end their chances of finding Kyron. She's like a cornered animal... she might bite her own leg off to get out of the trap they've set. Now that she has a good lawyer, he is going to advise her to not say a word. He knows they don't really have sufficient evidence to charge her yet.
If they have focused their entire investigation on Terri, and it ends up being someone else, then a lot of people are going to end up looking pretty stupid.
I think they need a new strategy right about now.

cluciano63
07-09-2010, 04:59 PM
I agree that if LE is behind of all Desiree's, Tony and Kaine's statements, it is not coming off as very professional to me. I don't blame the parents for speaking out, but I am glad that MCSO distanced their offices from what was being said yesterday. I hope they (MCSO) are being truthful in stating that they are not the source of whatever the parents are saying. I can't miagine LE advising them to put this type of relentless pressure on Terri unless they know that Kyron is dead. It has too much potential for backfiring.

Emeralgem
07-09-2010, 05:47 PM
Respectfully snipped*

Did DY actually say out loud the words she suspected TH had help? In the interviews I heard, she never said it in those words. I'm going daffy!:)


I think they desperately want to believe she had help.In order to preserve their sanity they need to believe she paid somone to hide Kyron and he is safe.. For them to entertain the thought she acted alone is entrely too painful for them to cope with at this time although I feel certain the thought has crossed their minds..JMO

21merc7
07-09-2010, 06:06 PM
I have seen a few cases like this. I will not say anyone, including a stranger, is the perp. I do know that an entire family is literally bringing one already in need person down. And a town. I know that this can happen as favors for the ones not being brought down. Show one sign of instability after years of harassment and all of the other side will team against you. You will fall. The team will create situations, bargain, buy, sale souls to get whatever the goal is. You are just a pawn.

I don't know that this is what is happening. I don't know which member flipped their mind, or if it is a stranger.

I sit and wait. I hope an innocent is not being doomed to the now, and a child appears years later never having lost contact with some. Too late, the child's damage is done. No one seems to think of that. The adult's too.

If only one is the participant and it is TH, then the family would have known before. I do feel for her too, she has been driven by this insanity for longer than just this last couple of months, but if responsible, then so be it.

I see all as perps, including strangers, but all of this "stuff" is so out of control. It reminds me of the cases where I have seen just this. Team up, make it happen, and innocent person lives a life of he** for one or two persons desires.

Pressure on TH is not going to show a stable person. The team knows she was breaking he mind before Kyron went missing. She will make major mistakes that look insane now just because they want her too.

Anyone remember the film "Let's scare Jessica to Death"?

I do hope LE and FBI are looking in other directions, could be younger, older, what have you. Just does not feel right with this scary thing. The cases I speak of were wrong, and the perps lived free, but karma came around eventually. (Too late for the innocent accused wrongfully.)

Who is caring for Kyron? Looking for him? Wondering how he feels and will feel about all of this once older if he is alive? Have they killed him b/c their plan backfired?

scandi
07-09-2010, 06:09 PM
Hi, I don't know where to put this as it could go on many threads.

In a TH discussion on HLN I just heard that Terri walked out of her first poly. That is why there was a 2nd poly given.


I'll keep a watch Mods and if I see a better place to put this, ans I will then delete it here. xox

scandi
07-09-2010, 06:18 PM
I have to wonder what they plan to do next to apply more pressure.
I think so Kimster. On HLN just now a TH said she believes the intense public pressure being put on Terri right now is being done in case Kyron is alive out there somewhere. And since she has given up nothing, and could against her lawyer's advice if she wanted, this pressure might be the only way to make her give it up.

Maybe the method jives with what would work on a narcissistic or pathological personality :waitasec:


ETA: I read that here BTW, a poster stating the methodology of working with certain personalities. xox

Kat
07-09-2010, 06:52 PM
Hi, I don't know where to put this as it could go on many threads.

In a TH discussion on HLN I just heard that Terri walked out of her first poly. That is why there was a 2nd poly given.


I'll keep a watch Mods and if I see a better place to put this, ans I will then delete it here. xox

Way off topic but we've seen a few people walk out on LDT's that were later found to be responsible for the crime for which they were getting a LDT...hmmm.

scandi
07-09-2010, 07:22 PM
There was an interesting comment on JVM from a LE friend of hers. Interesting, that is in relationship to all the public pressure being put on her now by the family and she is still silent:

"How's Terri keeping it all together now? Does she have antifreeze in her veins?"

scandi
07-09-2010, 07:26 PM
Also on JVM, a TH saying she is not a psychopath but a narcissistic sociopath and might have had a narcissistic explosion.

Hmm, never heard that term, but she was under pressure before he went missing acc to Kaine and the PPD so it could be, eh?

Etilema
07-09-2010, 07:40 PM
After the round of interviews we saw today, I have a specific picture of what is going on in the investigation at this point. I think LE are sure TH is responsible, but there is no physical evidence of his demise, so they are very methodically going through every scrap of information, bit by bit, to track down what happened and who else may be involved. This means interviews, phone records, internet records, emails, video evidence, anything and everything that will help them find out what happened. The hope is that as they comb through all of this info, the pieces will fall into place. (I think that LE stated they discovered the murder-for-hire plot after finding that TH had hired a lawn guy without KH's knowledge. It caused them to look into that situation more.)

DY and KH said today that they did not believe TH would *ever* talk. That means it is up to the investigators to FIND the truth and find Kyron. Based on that, I don't think they are putting effort into psyching her out at this point, just as they are not putting their energies into a physical search. They are focused on examining every detail of TH's life until they have the evidence they need.

aprilheeler
07-09-2010, 08:46 PM
All my own opinion, of course:

I have begun to wonder if TH is a little bit like me--I cannot abide factual errors. My dad (from whom I inherited this "disorder") calls it kleptofactomania: when I see a fact, I must possess it. I have, against my better instincts, corrected my boss when he misused a word (it had nothing to do with work, he just used what he thought was a correct colloquialism and he was using it incorrectly). As a child I told a puppeteer who "flew" a marionette ostrich that "Ostriches can't fly!" I'm constitutionally incapable of not going back to fix typos, and if I miss one I'm horrified.

If I had done something awful I'd probably clam up as well, knowing full well about the fifth amendment. Let them prove me guilty; they don't need my help. But if other parties to the case were giving interviews, talking about what they *say* they know of me, or what they *think* they know of me, it would drive me absolutely nuts to hear anything that, to me, was a misstatement. "No, I *wasn't* better after 12 months of PPD! Yes, I *did* cooperate with LE! No, I am *not* a habitual liar and how dare you insinuate that I am! And no, Kyron isn't coming home so kicking me out of the house so he has somewhere to come home to is *ridiculous*! I know what happened and you people don't know what you're talking about!"

It makes me wonder whether each statement that KH and DY make is calculated to add just a little more to the weight that's just got to be pressing down on TH.

I should add a disclaimer that I may be insufferable but I am essentially non-violent. :angel: I shudder to think what my online browsing history (heavy on crime) would do for my defense should I ever find myself suspected of a something unsavory.

21merc7
07-10-2010, 06:32 AM
I have noticed a couple things in he latest pressers.
1. DY does not wear "KYRON MISSING" shirt...........is she sending TH a message???
2. She called Kaine, "YOUR HUSBAND".........not Kyron's dad.
3. DY said she blames TH and thinks that TH had help.
Are these hidden messages to TH???

I would not think so. Just think DY was burned by TH and KH when KH started romancing TH. DY got burned by TY in her mind and will never be able to like or trust her. She took her husband and raised on of her children so far. Would you like her in any way or trust her in any way? I sure couldn't.

The only hidden message is I hate you, you broke up my family, you are the cause of my misery for all these years and always will be.

DY appealing to TH is just not going to get anywhere really.

GrainneDhu
07-10-2010, 06:47 AM
In the little bit of presser I got to see yesterday some LE officer said Terri is no longer cooperating and by that he said he meant she is not calling them with helpful info. I hope they are not "waiting" for her to call them, FGS.
That ain't gonna happen IMO> I know she has lawyered up, but can't they still call her to come in (with her atty) and question her, lay out the evidence they have and show her that all points to her, implore upon her to do the right thing....let her know shes screwed anyway and is going to be going away to jail, eventually, for quite awhile so she is gaining nothing by not telling the location of Kyron. Maybe give her some kindof "deal" (as much as I hate to say that) to tell them where this child is so his family can have closure.

SBM

In a word: No. None of the above.

The police have no power to force anyone who is not under arrest to come in and talk to them. They can request such a meeting but they cannot compel it.

If she is under arrest, they can talk to her but they cannot question her if she asserts her constitutional right to have her attorney present. And if her attorney is present, he is going to tell her not to answer anything, to keep asserting her fifth amendment right against self incrimination.

We live in a nation that provides a fair amount of protection for its citizens. Even if a particular case seems to justify bending or setting aside those protections, that is a road that the courts have not accepted.

Personally, I would not want to live in any country that did not have such protections or even to visit such a country. Bad, really bad things happen in such places.

What they could do is offer her immunity in return for her testimony. Such a move would be highly controversial, to say the least. And even if she were offered immunity at the state level, I bet her attorney would want immunity at the federal level as well (very difficult to get).


I don't know what she thinks she is gaining by sitting in KAINES house and saying and doing nothing. Does she think she can hole up there forever and this will just "go away"? I think she needs a serious check-up from the neck-up, she can't be mentally "right".

These are my thoughts right now and JMO.

abbie

Well, as to sitting in Kaine's house, that will be decided in the hearing 22 July.

What do you think she would gain from speaking out at this point? I ask seriously because I can't see any good that could come of it for her unless it is as part of a plea bargain.

And I am almost 100% certain that her lawyer would never advise her to try to cut a plea bargain before she has even been arrested. Why anticipate trouble or help it along? If she has something to proffer for a plea bargain, time enough to do so when it is clear what the charges are and what evidence LE has in their hand.

So, absent arrest and plea bargain, I really don't see any advantage for her from speaking to anyone, including LE, media or other parents. She can, so far as I can see, only harm herself.

saba
07-10-2010, 07:01 AM
Also on JVM, a TH saying she is not a psychopath but a narcissistic sociopath and might have had a narcissistic explosion.

Hmm, never heard that term, but she was under pressure before he went missing acc to Kaine and the PPD so it could be, eh?

Narcissistic explosion. I just love that term. I think it means the expert has no idea.

GrainneDhu
07-10-2010, 07:04 AM
I have to wonder what they plan to do next to apply more pressure.

Boy, I can think of so many things (all legal, so far as I know) that it's hard for me to predict which way they might go.

For instance, I believe KH said that LE had examined their computers. TMH seems like a heavy computer user, someone who uses the internet for recreation, emotional support and stress relief. So, citing the ongoing investigation into MFH, get a search warrant and seize her computer (if she has a new one; I assume her old one has already been seized). Pretty soon, money is going to be a big problem for her, so taking away this computer would take away a major part of her life.

Or put a 24/7 tail on her and make it completely obvious she is being followed everywhere she goes. Particularly if she moves in with her parents in Medford (which it seems like she almost has to do).

Figure out some pretext on which to impound the Mustang.

Make the rounds of interviewing her known friends again. They'll surely get back to her about it. And if LE should happen to ask questions about whether they ever saw any evidence that TMH took illegal drugs...

There's just so many ways they could go.

Susan10
07-10-2010, 09:10 AM
I have to wonder what they plan to do next to apply more pressure.

I really believe this last move to remove TH from the family home is going to cause tremendous pressure. Where will she go? Can she move in with her dad? It will really force her options if effected.
Unless she has substantial money stashed somewhere, how could she afford to stay anywhere else?
It must gall KH pay for the lodging of the person he says had something to do with his son's disappearance.

Forensic fan
07-10-2010, 10:34 AM
[QUOTE=KeyboardCat;5385038]I agree. Having someone hold a child to later be released defies all logic. Involving unnecessary people which could later incriminate her also defies logic.

I hate typing out these words... but I feel that if blessed Kyron is still alive, its because she sold him knowing she would never again know of his safety or whereabouts (and I feel that is improbable), or a real stranger danger abduction. And we all know the statistics of what happens to a child within the first few hours of that happening. I pray for his safe return, but its difficult to remain optimistic. That was my first gut reaction. My second reaction was thinking that with all the confusion over doctor appointments, an unorganized school day due to the fair, no working security cameras... someone has set up a huge lawsuit to Skyline Elementary.[/QUOTE)

I wonder if Terri has a grudge against the school, did they ever refuse her a job, etc. ?

human
07-10-2010, 10:40 AM
I think moving back with her parents at age 40 is not that appealing.

She did not fight to retain any visitation with her daughter.

If she moves back to Roseburg, I don't think that people will welcome her with open arms there either.

Her attorney is in Portland, but I imagine she could do phone calls .

If it's true her cell phone pings show her on Sauvie, what could be worse than what she is facing now? Why doesn't she tell what she was doing?

eyes4crime
07-10-2010, 12:12 PM
Narcissistic explosion. I just love that term. I think it means the expert has no idea.

LOL nothing like giving a visual image to the word "rage".

Narcissistic rage = explosion! Soon it will be a torpedo :eek:

Donjeta
07-10-2010, 02:52 PM
If you have someone give a statement like this will it reassure or scare the perp?


Former Multnomah County prosecutor Jim McIntyre said an arrest in this case has not been made because, “You have to be able to identify specifically what crime you’re going to charge. You can’t simply say, ‘you’re under arrest because everyone thinks you did something.’ I mean, you have to have evidence, more likely than not, that you committed a specific crime.”

What's the message the perp takes home? "We know you did it", or "we can't prove anything"?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98150609.html

21merc7
07-10-2010, 03:20 PM
I think moving back with her parents at age 40 is not that appealing.

She did not fight to retain any visitation with her daughter.

If she moves back to Roseburg, I don't think that people will welcome her with open arms there either.

Her attorney is in Portland, but I imagine she could do phone calls .

If it's true her cell phone pings show her on Sauvie, what could be worse than what she is facing now? Why doesn't she tell what she was doing?

Living with parents sucks, but she is unemployed, so, you can do whatever you have to comes to mind.

She will be in Court on the 22nd about baby k.

Other two are rhetorical.

Last one, I would think her lawyer knows if she was at Sauvie and why by now. Probably LE by now too.

JMO as always.

21merc7
07-10-2010, 03:21 PM
If you have someone give a statement like this will it reassure or scare the perp?



What's the message the perp takes home? "We know you did it", or "we can't prove anything"?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98150609.html

It means Kyron could be anywhere, anyone could have done something with or to him. They simply do not know, they have no evidence of anything yet.

Sad for Kyron.

kbl8201
07-10-2010, 03:23 PM
my idea of pressure on a poi/suspect is an interrrogation room where the suspect has waived right to counsel.

sure this leads to many false confessions, but in a case liike this, if you get her to lead you to a body you can work from there.

human
07-10-2010, 03:53 PM
Living with parents sucks, but she is unemployed, so, you can do whatever you have to comes to mind.

She will be in Court on the 22nd about baby k.

Other two are rhetorical.

Last one, I would think her lawyer knows if she was at Sauvie and why by now. Probably LE by now too.

JMO as always.

don't ask me for the link, please_ I have no idea where it is and if it's true. But she had some amount of days to respond to the RO and apparently she didn't.

So if that is true, she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on in custody, I would think.

Donjeta
07-10-2010, 03:59 PM
don't ask me for the link, please_ I have no idea where it is and if it's true. But she had some amount of days to respond to the RO and apparently she didn't.

So if that is true, she doesn't have much of a leg to stand on in custody, I would think.

Even without the RO she might have a hard time getting custody since the father has an income and the house that the child is used to living in and she does not appear to.

southern_scout
07-15-2010, 03:57 PM
JEN! What a killer first post!

Donjeta
07-15-2010, 04:17 PM
I don't know if it was intended that way but the police asking for videos about people who saw the missing child after I did and saying they were dotting their i's and crossing their t's might make me a bit nervous.

JenB
07-15-2010, 05:47 PM
JEN! What a killer first post!

Ha! Thanks, Scout. First thread, not my first post. I had "strategery" in the title as a tribute to Dubya, but I think it was interpreted as a typo. Or an inappropriate insult.

I have seen people on various boards claiming that there is a new protocol for dealing with missing kids, but none of those people have chimed in here, yet.

TxLady2
07-15-2010, 08:51 PM
If you have someone give a statement like this will it reassure or scare the perp?



What's the message the perp takes home? "We know you did it", or "we can't prove anything"?
http://www.katu.com/news/local/98150609.html

Depends on the perp, I guess. You could add "yet" to the 2nd sentence, and it might shake someone's sense of security a little.
The point is... he is absolutely right. They do need evidence.. known as probable cause... to arrest and charge someone, AND they have to know what crime was committed. As yet, they apparently don't have that.
Hopefully, they will have it soon.
If they can find Kyron... that will speed it up, I think.

miabellamoure
07-15-2010, 09:55 PM
If someone else is involved and Terri is aware of it insofar as she cooperated with the accomplice to abduct Kyron, and Kyron is alive, then I firmly believe Terri removed him from the home in a misguided attempt to protect him from something or someone.

In as much of TH's actions have shown us...I'd dare say "protecting" Kyron was the last thing on her list of things she was planning but, more than likely quite the opposite!:furious:

miabellamoure
07-15-2010, 10:02 PM
If this is being discussed elsewhere, please move the thread as you see fit.

Given KH and DY's long pause when asked about possible accomplices, I wonder if some of their media strategy isn't geared toward another person, in addition to Terri.

It stood out to me that The Oregonian and Willamette Week were two publications pointed out as not "playing nice," and were asked to leave press conferences last week... but it appears KH is giving exclusive interviews to these pubs this week. I wonder if last week's shunning of these outlets was part of a plan that's no longer necessary.

Because the media strategy employed in this case is so different that what I've seen before, I wonder if a discussion of it might provide a useful case study for the future. I've seen people posting about new strategies being used in this case, as though there is a new standard being rolled out to LE for use in dealing with the media in missing persons cases -- is this part of it?

Again, if this thread is inappropriate please move it -- it's my first new thread and I'm nervous!

I also was thinking this same thing...especially with the most recent media coverage of the student who confirmed seeing Kyron in the gym with friends and also mentioning seeing the truck.

At first, I was thinking...why in the heck are his parents allowing him to speak to the media...then, it occurred to me...strategy, it's all a strategy to leak out a little bit at a time of what LE wants leaked out in an effort to corner TH (& accomplice?) with no where to go but, fold & tell all.

I also think that certain things that have been mentioned are done in such a way that to you & I would mean nothing but, EVERYTHING to TH.

At least I hope this is whats going on and I hope it works and Kyron will be returned home to his family sooner than later.

cluciano63
07-15-2010, 10:02 PM
I am trying to figure out what the charge against Terri will be if Kyron is not found and yet she is charged fairly soon. Usually in cases without a body, no one is charged with murder for quite a while, but that may be different in the case of a child, when the child obviously did not leave to start a new life, as defense attorneys always say. And kidnapping does not sound right, if she had the legal right to remove him from school.

If they can prove Terri left with Kyron, I think it is evident that something happened to him under her care, but what, exactly, is the question. It will be tricky for the defense, as no defense lawyer wants to say, "She didn't kill him, she just...? " Did what with him? What could there be that would not be a felony?