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View Full Version : Terri Horman Agrees to Leave the House & is not contesting the RO



Wondergirl
07-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Kyron's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman will not challenge a request to move out of the former family home, a letter from her lawyer read Monday.

It was unclear if or when Terri planned to move out.

On Sunday, the parents of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman put off all media contact for the week in anticipation of what they called "heavy" obligations by investigators on the case.

"Our focus continues to be fully on the investigation and finding Kyron," a statement from father Kaine Horman read. "All indications are that law enforcement obligations will be heavy in the coming week. As a result, we are sorry that we cannot schedule any media meetings. We really apologize for the change but, as always, our priority is keeping our energy and available time focused on the search and both of those things will be in short supply next week."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Desiree-Young-on-Terri-Moulton-I-know-shes-lying-98075814.html

kbl8201
07-12-2010, 03:19 PM
Kyron's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman will not challenge a request to move out of the former family home, a letter from her lawyer read Monday.

It was unclear if or when Terri planned to move out.

On Sunday, the parents of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman put off all media contact for the week in anticipation of what they called "heavy" obligations by investigators on the case.

"Our focus continues to be fully on the investigation and finding Kyron," a statement from father Kaine Horman read. "All indications are that law enforcement obligations will be heavy in the coming week. As a result, we are sorry that we cannot schedule any media meetings. We really apologize for the change but, as always, our priority is keeping our energy and available time focused on the search and both of those things will be in short supply next week."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Desiree-Young-on-Terri-Moulton-I-know-shes-lying-98075814.html

wonder if she knows she'll be staying a the grey bar hotel pretty soon anyways

scotslass
07-12-2010, 03:21 PM
wonder if she knows she'll be staying a the grey bar hotel pretty soon anyways

Perhaps but I bet it was to avoid the media hype and court battle over it. The press and the family are already saying uncooperative for me fighting this in the media would be the last thing she would want.

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 03:22 PM
well, i'll bet THAT will be a spectacle....

BeanE
07-12-2010, 03:22 PM
Oh good. I hope Kaine can get himself and the baby back home very soon, and without any trouble. He's got more than enough to deal with, without him and the baby being displaced on top of everything else.

Mylou
07-12-2010, 03:24 PM
I don't get that part, it says her lawyer says she won't challenge moving out of the house.
Then it says it's unclear IF or when ?

JLMcKenna83
07-12-2010, 03:24 PM
Would she even really have a right to refuse to leave? I mean the home is solely in Kaine's name isn't it?

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 03:28 PM
Oh good. I hope Kaine can get himself and the baby back home very soon, and without any trouble. He's got more than enough to deal with, without him and the baby being displaced on top of everything else.

ITA...i wish they could do it in the dead of night when no one could see them so they could just have something semi-normal in their lives....i feel for them every single day...

but when she moves out....I have a feeling, the could possibly be some media there....

cluciano63
07-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Whatever the outcome of the case is, it is kind of scary if wives have basically no rights as to regards property in any state these days. I don't the situation here, but still...

But I would imagine it won't be a hardship for her to get out of there...it's not as though she has any freedom, to speak of, no matter where she ends up, the media will find her. And the case will go on...

Wendy101
07-12-2010, 03:31 PM
*IF* Terri is guilty, why hasn't she ran away to different country by now???

LaceSprocket
07-12-2010, 03:31 PM
Kyron's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman will not challenge a request to move out of the former family home, a letter from her lawyer read Monday.

Bolded by me.

Just curious... To whom did her attorney send the letter? To the judge/court/Kaine's attorney?

Will that letter be made available to the public at some point? :waitasec:

Nana46
07-12-2010, 03:32 PM
I for one will feel a whole lot better if there are LOTS of media there when KH goes home....the more protection around him the better....he and that baby need to feel safe and I don't know that I could lay my head down in that home for awhile but I understand he wants to give the baby her home back.IMO

momtective
07-12-2010, 03:35 PM
:woohoo:
Take your daughter home Kaine and I pray her brother returns soon.

Etilema
07-12-2010, 03:36 PM
Whatever the outcome of the case is, it is kind of scary if wives have basically no rights as to regards property in any state these days.

The house is in his name, but even if a house were jointly owned and one of the spouses (whether a man or a woman) had a restraining order against him/her because he/she represented a real threat to the safety of the other spouse and their child, I think it might still be possible to legally order that person to leave so the other spouse and the child could remain in the home.

AnaTeresa
07-12-2010, 03:37 PM
I for one will feel a whole lot better if there are LOTS of media there when KH goes home....the more protection around him the better....

Protection or swimming with the sharks? I think the media there could cut both ways.

As for the if/when in the article, I'm sure there's a date set by her representation, but it's simply not known to the media. Or, perhaps, KH and TMH's representation have set a time to negotiate a move out date. I don't think the if/when in the news article is indicative that TMH will not move out.

Calliope
07-12-2010, 03:37 PM
Would she even really have a right to refuse to leave? I mean the home is solely in Kaine's name isn't it?

According to this, ouster is mandatory if the petitioner requests it. She had no say in the matter, really.

http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/FAPA_Benchguide_4-24-06.pdf

freefallzzzz
07-12-2010, 03:38 PM
Bolded by me.

Just curious... To whom did her attorney send the letter? To the judge/court/Kaine's attorney?
.
Will that letter be made available to the public at some point? :waitasec:

KGW 8 said info was from the court, the judges (secretary)? or secretary of court??.. My apologies as I wasn't listening very close to that part, but it was something like that...
I was more focused on the part where he repeats Terri has agreed to move out of the Horman home..

BeanE
07-12-2010, 03:39 PM
ITA...i wish they could do it in the dead of night when no one could see them so they could just have something semi-normal in their lives....i feel for them every single day...

but when she moves out....I have a feeling, the could possibly be some media there....

Well maybe Kaine, since he's gotten to know the reporters, could ask them to leave after Terri leaves, so the baby doesn't come home to a circus, and he can get her settled back in calmly and quietly. I think the reporters would understand and comply with that for the baby's sake.

Cher352
07-12-2010, 03:40 PM
I don't get that part, it says her lawyer says she won't challenge moving out of the house.
Then it says it's unclear IF or when ?

Maybe that is "if" the judge approves that addition to the RO, which he probably will....JMO

Cher352
07-12-2010, 03:45 PM
Well maybe Kaine, since he's gotten to know the reporters, could ask them to leave after Terri leaves, so the baby doesn't come home to a circus, and he can get her settled back in calmly and quietly. I think the reporters would understand and comply with that for the baby's sake.

I don't think that will happen, too much national media that will want that story and the pics...sad.

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 03:46 PM
Well maybe Kaine, since he's gotten to know the reporters, could ask them to leave after Terri leaves, so the baby doesn't come home to a circus, and he can get her settled back in calmly and quietly. I think the reporters would understand and comply with that for the baby's sake.


One can only hope...

kbl8201
07-12-2010, 03:48 PM
i dont know what the law is in oregoen but she has to vacate the premises (probably accompinied by a sherrifs deputy) and then kaine will come back later on.

kbl8201
07-12-2010, 03:48 PM
the media couldnt care less about the baby or anyonelse/

all they care about is getting the story

Mylou
07-12-2010, 03:50 PM
In his letter, Houze said Terri Horman would not be contesting any of the matters before the court, including a restraining order that prevents her from any parenting time with her daughter, K.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html

human
07-12-2010, 03:53 PM
Is it true that she had 5 days to respond to the RO and she has not?

If true, she is not fighting to have baby K either.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 03:54 PM
I would be a bit paranoid moving back in... She'd know where I live. If I believed she attempted to hire a hitman for me earlier and as she might possibly be a bit angrier now after the public accusations I would have the bomb squad there just in case and get a good alarm system.
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~draperg/cartoons/jb/scared.gif

helpfulcharlie
07-12-2010, 03:56 PM
From the lack of challenging the eviction request and the RO, and from her attorney's silence, I wonder if a plea deal of some sort might be imminent.

SoCalSleuth
07-12-2010, 03:57 PM
Appears to me TH's lawyer is keeping her options open re mounting a defense to any charges that may be brought. Probably of the mindset that if there's no body,no dna, and no confession, she's free and clear--which would normally be the case. My guess is he does not want her version of things on the record (until he knows what the cops have) & doesn't want her to be cross-examined on any of this which would happen if she contested the matter.

gwenabob
07-12-2010, 03:57 PM
In his letter, Houze said Terri Horman would not be contesting any of the matters before the court, including a restraining order that prevents her from any parenting time with her daughter, Kiara.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html


bbm

Now THAT is the interesting part. Really? She has no interest in fighting to see her baby? Well, doesn't that take the cake? It really is all about TERRI.

kbl8201
07-12-2010, 03:58 PM
letter says she's not contesting anything in the RO.

very strange. im baffled at the strategy or lack of. almost like she's just waiting for the cops to come get her.

denkster69
07-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Personally I would be SCARED to go back home.....who knows what TH has done Maybe > GAS LEAK, MESSED WITH ELECTRICAL WIRES, ETC.
TH worries me!

GrainneDhu
07-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Well maybe Kaine, since he's gotten to know the reporters, could ask them to leave after Terri leaves, so the baby doesn't come home to a circus, and he can get her settled back in calmly and quietly. I think the reporters would understand and comply with that for the baby's sake.

Most of them will, particularly the ones from msm.

I hope I am being unduly cynical but... has anyone noticed if the tabloids have picked up on this story? If so, I wouldn't bet against the tabloid reporters staying away, even for baby K's sake.

On the cheerful side, though, the way that house is situated, even if the media remains out in force, they would have to stay on the road, which is out of sight of the house. The worst that would happen would be that KH and baby K have to drive past a bunch of reporters.

I can't imagine the sheriff's department not being willing and eager to enforce the "no trespassing" signs that have been posted.

Heh, in fact, even the infamous telephoto lens wouldn't be much good for that property. A wall of trees is a wall of trees. I suppose an overhead helicopter could be used but I'd think such aerial shots would be useless for the purposes of the tabloids.

ella971
07-12-2010, 04:00 PM
I would think if she had nothing to do with K she at least would want to see her own daughter.Sad.

DairyGirl
07-12-2010, 04:01 PM
In his letter, Houze said Terri Horman would not be contesting any of the matters before the court, including a restraining order that prevents her from any parenting time with her daughter, Kiara.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html

She isn't contesting anything? Not even trying to see baby K? She must really not want to face a court badly. If she doesn't contest it remains in effect for a year. I just can't imagine not being able to see my baby for a year. To me it says she has something to hide. If not she would be doing everything to be with her baby. But that's just me.

human
07-12-2010, 04:03 PM
*IF* Terri is guilty, why hasn't she ran away to different country by now???

Like what country? It's not like you can live where you want in the world. If you plan on staying over a certain amount of time, you need a visa.

Other countries have requirements just like the US does.

Maybe if she had a ton of money, she could move somewhere like the Cayman Islands, but what exactly would she do for money?

DairyGirl
07-12-2010, 04:03 PM
Most of them will, particularly the ones from msm.

I hope I am being unduly cynical but... has anyone noticed if the tabloids have picked up on this story? If so, I wouldn't bet against the tabloid reporters staying away, even for baby K's sake.

On the cheerful side, though, the way that house is situated, even if the media remains out in force, they would have to stay on the road, which is out of sight of the house. The worst that would happen would be that KH and baby K have to drive past a bunch of reporters.

I can't imagine the sheriff's department not being willing and eager to enforce the "no trespassing" signs that have been posted.

Heh, in fact, even the infamous telephoto lens wouldn't be much good for that property. A wall of trees is a wall of trees. I suppose an overhead helicopter could be used but I'd think such aerial shots would be useless for the purposes of the tabloids.

I think the main reason the press is there is to try and catch TH being arrested. Since KH has given so much media access there is no reason to hound him. I think they will leave him alone unless something breaks.

evelyn24
07-12-2010, 04:05 PM
She isn't contesting anything? Not even trying to see baby K? She must really not want to face a court badly. If she doesn't contest it remains in effect for a year. I just can't imagine not being able to see my baby for a year. To me it says she has something to hide. If not she would be doing everything to be with her baby. But that's just me.

She doesn't want to have to go to court and get on the stand and face this stuff. IMO

Cher352
07-12-2010, 04:07 PM
If her lawyer were to try to fight it, the public and the media would be all over it. By saying she won't contest it, it give TH and her lawyer an them opportunity to basically say that TH is cooperating.

MysteryAddict
07-12-2010, 04:07 PM
...Same thoughts as Donjeta..
If I were Kaine, I'd rather Terri not know where I am!
It would be hard to rest easy there until she is locked up.

Hopeful One
07-12-2010, 04:07 PM
Mylou - will you edit your post to remove Baby K's name? We aren't allowed to post the names of minors here. TIA!!

keeponsearching
07-12-2010, 04:09 PM
RE: "On Saturday, sources told KGW that investigators believe someone other than Terri Moulton Horman may know what happened to the 7-year-old who disappeared from Skyline Elementary on June 4."

BBM

Yes, I agree.

"..someone other than..."

Interesting wording, imo, in that it does not say --someone in addition to--.

This is really interesting, and I am surprised that no one is really talking about it.... I think it should have its own thread.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 04:10 PM
She doesn't want to have to go to court and get on the stand and face this stuff. IMO

I hope that if she's guilty this reluctance to take the stand means that she knows it's no use, her goose is cooked and they're just waiting for the potatoes now.

debs
07-12-2010, 04:11 PM
bbm

Now THAT is the interesting part. Really? She has no interest in fighting to see her baby? Well, doesn't that take the cake? It really is all about TERRI.

If stories regarding her suffering from PPD are true, it seems only fair and reasonable that she would put on hold any struggle with Kaine regarding visitation in order to ensure she gets the help she needs. I don't believe this is a statement of future intent to see her child, however, and I for one wouldn't extrapolate into the future using it.

GrainneDhu
07-12-2010, 04:11 PM
letter says she's not contesting anything in the RO.

very strange. im baffled at the strategy or lack of. almost like she's just waiting for the cops to come get her.

My guess is that whether TMH wanted to fight or not, her lawyer doesn't want her to be testifying under oath in any courtroom if he can avoid it.

It's doubtful that she could successfully get any of the clauses of the RO changed and it's certain that LE would go over any statements she made under oath with a fine tooth comb.

Poor risk to benefit ratio.

GrainneDhu
07-12-2010, 04:16 PM
...Same thoughts as Donjeta..
If I were Kaine, I'd rather Terri not know where I am!
It would be hard to rest easy there until she is locked up.

Well, to be totally logical about it, there are cases where convicts have arranged for hits while in prison.

However, the cases I can remember involved Mafia or gang leaders who could arrange access to plenty of funds.

believe09
07-12-2010, 04:17 PM
She is not contesting the restraining order or the order to vacate-let us think about this....she is tacitly stating then that Kaine is the better custodial parent of her child at this point in time. And that she is not entitled to stay at the marital residence.

If she does not fight the RO, it can become permanent, or at least good for a year if you are here in MA.

My guess and speculation; she is putting her affairs in order and surrendering...

ETA: She may have resisted the sting but there must be something definitive regarding the MFH plot....because I am truly puzzled that a defense attorney would advise her to concede.

LaceSprocket
07-12-2010, 04:17 PM
I could be wrong, but to date, Kaine has not indicated that he WILL move back home right away.

For all we know, he might not move back "home" for months and month - at least, not until Terri is no longer a threat... i.e., not until she's 'sentenced' to jail time.

Because Terri might get arrested, but it's still possible that she gets out on bail until the hearing, which could take months and months. And I, for one, would not feel comfortable living there knowing Terri is out on bail and *possibly* pretty mad about that. :waitasec:

Ms Suzanne
07-12-2010, 04:20 PM
letter says she's not contesting anything in the RO.

very strange. im baffled at the strategy or lack of. almost like she's just waiting for the cops to come get her.
I honestly think it's best to wait untill she is proven not to have anything to do with all this going on if she is and she is found not guity of it all.She will have a better chance to get her baby back.It's best to wait it out.

Calliope
07-12-2010, 04:27 PM
bbm

Now THAT is the interesting part. Really? She has no interest in fighting to see her baby? Well, doesn't that take the cake? It really is all about TERRI.

I don't see where it says she has no interest in fighting to see her baby. Why fight for that now with all that's swirling about in the media? That would surely play against her, guilty or not, and she then risks losing custody and visitation in a permanent order.

IMO, this is simply maneuvering on the part of her attorney as he sets up a potential defense for her in Kyron's disappearance and the alleged murder plot. I trust he has good reason for advising her not to contest the RO at this point.

wvjules
07-12-2010, 04:27 PM
Maybe Terri is just doing the right thing by not contesting it. It sounds as if she has no legal leg to stand on so why would she even bother trying to fight it? She would be considered even more evil than she already is.

As for her not asking to see K, I guess I can see that is her wanting what is best for baby K at this time. Maybe TH is getting threats and feels that K is safer with her father. Maybe she's afraid she will get arrested and doesn't want to disrupt baby K's life any more than it is. Maybe the PPD stories are true and she wants to get help before she feels she can be a good mother to K.

If she fought the order or any part of the RO then many would call her selfish, evil, all about her. She didn't fight it and she's still called the same. I would want to keep baby K away from all of that too.

(BTW, as you can tell I'm not convinced it is her yet.)

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 04:27 PM
Sigh.
It is all I can do from brain vomiting via my fingers on this computer. I've lurked through this case most of the time and its a struggle to keep from just, IDK...TYPING.
I don't even know what would be best for kaine and the baby after I've thought about it. She WILL know where they are and since no one knows what TH's mindframe is at the present time...who knows if she will respect the RO.
We do know that IF she respects the RO, she will have to move out when Kaine and the baby aren't around. So, if I am thinking logically (which is a stretch) TH will most likely move out before KH and the baby move back in...it most certainly could go the other way, but this seems like it would work better.
As for TH not contesting to see her baby...that kind of makes me uber curious. I do not have any kids and prolly won't (if i cant raise 2 70lbs dogs correctly...sheesh!!) so I don't know the ins and outs of PPD or parenting...but while she has some legal stuff on her plate...showing that she wants to see her baby would make me feel a tad bit more compassion for her.

All my window of opinion.

joshiesmom
07-12-2010, 04:28 PM
I honestly think it's best to wait untill she is proven not to have anything to do with all this going on if she is and she is found not guity of it all.She will have a better chance to get her baby back.

I was thinking along the same lines.

IF... and yes, I admit, it's a pretty big "IF".... IF she is not guilty of anything related to Kyron's disappearance, then I think her lawyer may be advising her to keep quiet and not contest anything relating to the RO & divorce until after the situation with Kyron gets sorted out.

I don't believe that her not contesting anything necessarily means she agrees that Kaine is the better custodial parent or that she doesn't deserve to live in the house. People do things they don't want to do every day and I suspect that Terri's refusal to fight Kaine on the RO & order to move out of the house is one example of her doing something she doesn't want to do.

IF she is innocent (or even if she's guilty), I would bet her goal is to stay out of prison, so I imagine she will do whatever her lawyer tells her to do. Whether she agrees or likes it is totally irrelevant at this point in time. But I think it's a big stretch to say that because she's not fighting the RO, she doesn't want to see her child. For all any of us knows, Terri cries every day from missing her daughter and she is heartbroken about Kyron's disappearance. We don't know whether she is or not, so I refuse to assume that she is a completely cold-hearted ***** who is glad that she's completely alone now.

MOO.

wvjules
07-12-2010, 04:28 PM
Yes, that would be nice. But it could potentially point away from TH, so I'm not sure if we're allowed to discuss it.

So we are NOT allowed to point away from Terri? WS has a TH only policy? :waitasec:

4BB
07-12-2010, 04:30 PM
She's not fighting the restraining order. It is possible (although I doubt probable) that TH does not have to fight the restraining order if the contents or facts against her are disproved. Meaning IF the landscaper theory is disproved then she never was a threat to her husband. IF some evidence to the contrary of her possible involvement with Kyrons disappearance comes forward. *all of this in due time of course

Im not putting my eggs in this basket, but opening up another possibility.

Calliope
07-12-2010, 04:32 PM
letter says she's not contesting anything in the RO.

very strange. im baffled at the strategy or lack of. almost like she's just waiting for the cops to come get her.

Why should the defense tip their hand or otherwise assist the prosecution?

keeponsearching
07-12-2010, 04:36 PM
RE: "On Saturday, sources told KGW that investigators believe someone other than Terri Moulton Horman may know what happened to the 7-year-old who disappeared from Skyline Elementary on June 4."

BBM

Yes, I agree.

"..someone other than..."

Interesting wording, imo, in that it does not say --someone in addition to--.

What is also interesting is how its kinda just thrown in the middle of the article, you could miss it, because than it goes on about the main topic. and its from a oh wait for it, a source..... just saying :waitasec:

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 04:38 PM
Why should the defense tip their hand or otherwise assist the prosecution?
If you put it that way, no reason at all, but I think there is a baby who misses her mother.

chasing.halos
07-12-2010, 04:38 PM
Link to actual letter:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/9/3/9/939be717-51bc-4f18-8522-305e2c2a94dc/TerriDIVORCE.pdf

believe09
07-12-2010, 04:40 PM
Maybe Terri is just doing the right thing by not contesting it. It sounds as if she has no legal leg to stand on so why would she even bother trying to fight it? She would be considered even more evil than she already is.

As for her not asking to see K, I guess I can see that is her wanting what is best for baby K at this time. Maybe TH is getting threats and feels that K is safer with her father. Maybe she's afraid she will get arrested and doesn't want to disrupt baby K's life any more than it is. Maybe the PPD stories are true and she wants to get help before she feels she can be a good mother to K.

If she fought the order or any part of the RO then many would call her selfish, evil, all about her. She didn't fight it and she's still called the same. I would want to keep baby K away from all of that too.

(BTW, as you can tell I'm not convinced it is her yet.)

She has a criminal attorney, so maybe this is the difference, but in family court you do not make a concession like this....you power on with your head held high, make your appearances and state your case about why this is complete and utter nonsense. Firmly. Because this is YOUR CHILD-your flesh and blood that is being kept from you. Your 19 month old.

She is bio mom-you have to really really screw up as bio mom to lose your child-but to not even give it a shot? The presumption of innocence is hers in court, if not in the court of public opinion. There are very, very few judges that would take a child of tender years away from the biomom who has raised her, and who has not brutally abused her or neglected her.

Nope, to concede the restraining order and the eviction....maybe she is checking herself into a hospital? I am really puzzled.

DairyGirl
07-12-2010, 04:41 PM
Why should the defense tip their hand or otherwise assist the prosecution?

To see her child? If I were innocent I would fire my attorney if he didn't fight for me to see my child. Unless she is worried about something bigger. Truth is the best defense. If she didn't try to hire the landscaper to kill her husband then they wouldn't have any evidence so what would she care? Just trying to think why a woman who by all accounts loved her baby very much wouldn't fight to be in her life. I can't think of any good reason.

xin
07-12-2010, 04:41 PM
Link to actual letter:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/9/3/9/939be717-51bc-4f18-8522-305e2c2a94dc/TerriDIVORCE.pdf

Very interesting. So maybe Houze, who we now know IS taking on the divorce, does not want any more domestic evidence coming up/going on the record.

It's almost like she's given up, seems she would want to drag this out too, but NO. Remember, references to her concern over custody issues. More skeletons, etc.

IMHO.
Thanks for link.

xin
07-12-2010, 04:43 PM
She has a criminal attorney, so maybe this is the difference, but in family court you do not make a concession like this....you power on with your head held high, make your appearances and state your case about why this is complete and utter nonsense. Firmly. Because this is YOUR CHILD-your flesh and blood that is being kept from you. Your 19 month old.

She is bio mom-you have to really really screw up as bio mom to lose your child-but to not even give it a shot? The presumption of innocence is hers in court, if not in the court of public opinion. There are very, very few judges that would take a child of tender years away from the biomom who has raised her, and who has not brutally abused her or neglected her.

Nope, to concede the restraining order and the eviction....maybe she is checking herself into a hospital? I am really puzzled.

Right, good stuff.
We know that she is a *fighter* of sorts, a competitor as we've seen with the online games, and the body-building thing.

IMHO

Ms Suzanne
07-12-2010, 04:43 PM
If you put it that way, no reason at all, but I think there is a baby who misses her mother.
I think there is a baby that misses her mommy too.I do not feel it is in the babies best interest to keep her away from her mommy.I just don't.She was the primary care taker of this child.I feel it's best this baby is with both parents.Even if it's supervised visitations with her mommy Terri.

tehcloser
07-12-2010, 04:43 PM
I thought the letter said she was getting a DIFFERENT lawyer for the divorce.

believe09
07-12-2010, 04:44 PM
XIN, I read the letter differently...I read that she would be seeking other counsel for the domestic divorce proceedings...

AlexisFresca
07-12-2010, 04:44 PM
*IF* Terri is guilty, why hasn't she ran away to different country by now???

Lack of passport? No money?

Not that I follow all missing person's/children's cases; Joran is the only one I can think of who's traveled to other countries.

Also, Scott Peterson comes to mind, who when arrested, had a wad of cash, passport, had changed his hair color and so on, to leave. But that was quite awhile after Laci went missing. Things had 'died down' a bit by then. This case is pretty hot right now.

xin
07-12-2010, 04:46 PM
I thought the letter said she was getting a DIFFERENT lawyer for the divorce.

Right. Thanks. But for now the correspondence is coming from the crim attorney, so as a practical observation, he's the boss for now, and taking the lead for Rackner. Pretty smart, IMHO.

xin
07-12-2010, 04:47 PM
XIN, I read the letter differently...I read that she would be seeking other counsel for the domestic divorce proceedings...


Yes. One step behind you in connecting the dots. See post above and thanks!

DairyGirl
07-12-2010, 04:48 PM
She has a criminal attorney, so maybe this is the difference, but in family court you do not make a concession like this....you power on with your head held high, make your appearances and state your case about why this is complete and utter nonsense. Firmly. Because this is YOUR CHILD-your flesh and blood that is being kept from you. Your 19 month old.

She is bio mom-you have to really really screw up as bio mom to lose your child-but to not even give it a shot? The presumption of innocence is hers in court, if not in the court of public opinion. There are very, very few judges that would take a child of tender years away from the biomom who has raised her, and who has not brutally abused her or neglected her.

Nope, to concede the restraining order and the eviction....maybe she is checking herself into a hospital? I am really puzzled.

I agree and I have said for a long time that I expect her next move to be either rehab or inpatient treatment.
I just don't understand why you have a defense attorney if you won't let him defend you.

Lavender
07-12-2010, 04:48 PM
So we are NOT allowed to point away from Terri? WS has a TH only policy? :waitasec:

No, I think my words are getting twisted a bit. I was just saying I don't know, because I truly don't know. There was a thread for discussing possibilities that TH was innocent, but it was closed and since then I've been confused about what we can and cannot discuss when it comes to non-TH theories. I'm in favor of discussing lots of possibilities, including theories that don't involve TH killing Kyron, but realize my theories and ideas are far from the majority.

AlexisFresca
07-12-2010, 04:49 PM
I would be a bit paranoid moving back in... She'd know where I live. If I believed she attempted to hire a hitman for me earlier and as she might possibly be a bit angrier now after the public accusations I would have the bomb squad there just in case and get a good alarm system.
http://www.cs.utah.edu/~draperg/cartoons/jb/scared.gif


I wonder if he's been offered any form of police protection ie Terri is being followed/staked out.

Amster
07-12-2010, 04:50 PM
Was the court date on the 22nd just for the moving out of the house issue? If so, where does her lawyer say she won't be contesting the RO?

Ms Suzanne
07-12-2010, 04:51 PM
Link to actual letter:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/media/lib/107/9/3/9/939be717-51bc-4f18-8522-305e2c2a94dc/TerriDIVORCE.pdf
Quote
Accordingly,Ms Rackner and I agree that there is no further need for a hearing before the court and that the court may strike the scheduled proceeding from it's calendar.


Does this mean they are dropping the RO?

wvjules
07-12-2010, 04:52 PM
No, I think my words are getting twisted a bit. I was just saying I don't know, because I truly don't know. There was a thread for discussing possibilities that TH was innocent, but it was closed and since then I've been confused about what we can and cannot discuss when it comes to non-TH theories. I'm in favor of discussing lots of possibilities, including theories that don't involve TH killing Kyron, but realize my theories and ideas are far from the majority.

I didn't read why that one was closed. I was unsure of what you meant. Thanks.

RubyRed
07-12-2010, 04:54 PM
I think there is a baby that misses her mommy too.I do not feel it is in the babies best interest to keep her away from her mommy.I just don't.She was the primary care taker of this child.I feel it's best this baby is with both parents.Even if it's supervised visitations with her mommy Terri.

That babies Mommy could very well have killed that babies brother. That babies Mommy could very well have put a hit on that babies Daddy.

The judge didn't just make this order on a whim.

4BB
07-12-2010, 04:54 PM
Terri seems to love her daughter very much.

She is not fighting the RO..

*she is innocent and feels that the facts in the case will work to her advantage

*she is guilty and knows she is going away for a long time. I'm sure this child misses her mother, but if that facts in the case show it is likely that Terri will be going away for a long time..it may do more harm to Baby K to bring her mother back into her life for a shirt time and take her away again.

ETA~ I doubt Terri will be a threat to either one of them (Kaine or baby) if she is going to some sort of inpatient facility.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 04:54 PM
I don't think it's against the rules to discuss the possibility that TH is innocent, it's more that it's against the rules to sleuth the people who haven't been named in the media as potentially involved in the case.

LaceSprocket
07-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Quote
Accordingly,Ms Rackner and I agree that there is no further need for a hearing before the court and that the court may strike the scheduled proceeding from it's caledar.


Does this mean they are dropping the RO?

Legal eagles, correct me if I'm wrong:

No, I don't think so. I think it means there's no need to hear just the Petition to make Terri move out. The divorce and the RO should still be on the schedule, as they are separate proceedings heard separately - but on the same day.

seeking truth
07-12-2010, 04:57 PM
Appears to me TH's lawyer is keeping her options open re mounting a defense to any charges that may be brought. Probably of the mindset that if there's no body,no dna, and no confession, she's free and clear--which would normally be the case. My guess is he does not want her version of things on the record (until he knows what the cops have) & doesn't want her to be cross-examined on any of this which would happen if she contested the matter.That may be true. What is hard for my mind to to reconcile is this:

If Terri is going to play this out, admit to nothing...then why isn't she at least contesting the part of the RO that has to do with her seeing her baby? Is it because she would have to be in court for that, too, and she could slip up?

I wonder (maybe HOPE would be the better word) if she possibly has something left that is good inside of her and she realizes that she is a danger to her daughter?

This is all speculation and opinion, and I realize that Terri has not been charged with a crime, nor has she admitted to any crime.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 04:57 PM
That babies Mommy could very well have killed that babies brother. That babies Mommy could very well have put a hit on that babies Daddy.

The judge didn't just make this order on a whim.


I understand the reasons why the judge signed the RO, but is Terri now admitting that the accusations are true and the judge was right to protect her baby, by not contesting?

Calliope
07-12-2010, 04:58 PM
She doesn't want to have to go to court and get on the stand and face this stuff. IMO

We saw the petition for the RO. The primary reason for the request was that he felt she was responsible for Kyron's disappearance. He writes he has reason to believe she was involved in Kyron's disappearance and adds he'd recently found out about the murder-for-hire plot.

According to this, one of the requirements the petitioner must meet is providing evidence of abuse within the previous 180 days.


http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/FAPA_Benchguide_4-24-06.pdf

Showing Required

A petitioner is entitled to relief under FAPA when:

1. There has been "abuse," as defined in ORS
107.705(1)

a. within the preceding 180 days,

b between "family or household members," as
defined in ORS 107.705(3); and

2. Petitioner is in "imminent danger of further abuse"
by respondent, and

3. Respondent represents a credible threat to the
physical safety of petitioner or petitionerís child.

Of the two reasons he gives for the request for an RO, only her involvement with Kyron's disappearance is within that 180 days. The alleged murder plot fell outside these guidelines, which is why it was included in another portion of the petition that asked if there were any other occasions of abuse that happened beyond the 180 day limit.

So given that Terri's supposed involvement with what happened to Kyron is included in the RO petition and is actually the only allegation that falls within its guidelines as far as the timeframe goes, and that in order to contest it she'd have to present her side and defend herself against these accusations to the judge, it makes perfect sense that her defense attorney would NOT want her to contest anything regarding the RO at this time. It's obvious that prohibiting her from seeing the baby has more to do with her alleged involvement with Kyron's case than plotting to kill Kaine.

Her attorney is certainly not going to worry about something as insignificant as a temporary restraining order and risk revealing to the prosecution (and potential jury pool) the defense he's building for her in a potential kidnapping / murder case. If he were to advise her otherwise, I'd have some serious doubts about his abilities (or willingness) to adequately defend his client.

captivagrl
07-12-2010, 05:00 PM
Kyron's stepmother Terri Moulton Horman will not challenge a request to move out of the former family home, a letter from her lawyer read Monday.

It was unclear if or when Terri planned to move out.

On Sunday, the parents of missing Portland boy Kyron Horman put off all media contact for the week in anticipation of what they called "heavy" obligations by investigators on the case.

"Our focus continues to be fully on the investigation and finding Kyron," a statement from father Kaine Horman read. "All indications are that law enforcement obligations will be heavy in the coming week. As a result, we are sorry that we cannot schedule any media meetings. We really apologize for the change but, as always, our priority is keeping our energy and available time focused on the search and both of those things will be in short supply next week."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Desiree-Young-on-Terri-Moulton-I-know-shes-lying-98075814.html

Anyone else get the feeling that KH and DY might be testifying? Wonder if we'll hear "grand jury" any time soon?

xin
07-12-2010, 05:01 PM
Anyone else get the feeling that KH and DY might be testifying? Wonder if we'll hear "grand jury" any time soon?

I hope so, maybe that's what we're (and LE) waiting for...

imo

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:02 PM
The dormant lawyer-wannabe in me might agree that it's the best policy not to contest, it's just that the mother in me would never, ever think it's insignificant if someone told me that I couldn't see my baby. Especially not if I was innocent of the charges against me.

Jo in Calif
07-12-2010, 05:03 PM
Right. Thanks. But for now the correspondence is coming from the crim attorney, so as a practical observation, he's the boss for now, and taking the lead for Rackner. Pretty smart, IMHO.
Moo sounds like she's got a pretty smart cdattorney

liz b.
07-12-2010, 05:03 PM
I noticed that wording, too. Could just be semantics, but it could be important.

It could also simply be someone unrelated or unknown to Terri, but someone who found out about it through a 3rd party.


I take this simple sentence at face value ; investigators are thinking that someone other than TH might well know what happened to Kyron.

All JMO

raeann
07-12-2010, 05:04 PM
bbm

Now THAT is the interesting part. Really? She has no interest in fighting to see her baby? Well, doesn't that take the cake? It really is all about TERRI.

That isn't really what it says at all, it states that she will be seeking separate counsel (i.e. another attorney who specializes in family relations) to deal with the dissolution matters. That means that future custody would be determined within those procedures. The RO is a TEMPORARY matter, and can be contested at any time, but if she is only interested in the determination of custody and NOT in having any contact with KH, then the definitive way to do that is within the regular procedures for a divorce and custody arrangements. All of those arrangements can be worked out WITHOUT involving any court proceedings and in most divorce cases, that is what happens. Their separate attorneys can come to an agreement within DAYS if that is what they want.

jmo

Calliope
07-12-2010, 05:04 PM
I agree and I have said for a long time that I expect her next move to be either rehab or inpatient treatment.
I just don't understand why you have a defense attorney if you won't let him defend you.

Advising her not to contest the RO at this point in time is very smart, and in her best interest, regardless of guilt or innocence. jmo

Ms Suzanne
07-12-2010, 05:04 PM
Legal eagles, correct me if I'm wrong:

No, I don't think so. I think it means there's no need to hear just the Petition to make Terri move out. The divorce and the RO should still be on the schedule, as they are separate proceedings heard separately - but on the same day.
Ok,Thank you.

xin
07-12-2010, 05:05 PM
Moo sounds like she's got a pretty smart cdattorney

He's on top of it too, which to me means he's been paid. Cynics may say that he's playing both ends against the middle for story rights, media income.

IMHO

seeking truth
07-12-2010, 05:05 PM
I could be wrong, but to date, Kaine has not indicated that he WILL move back home right away.

For all we know, he might not move back "home" for months and month - at least, not until Terri is no longer a threat... i.e., not until she's 'sentenced' to jail time.

Because Terri might get arrested, but it's still possible that she gets out on bail until the hearing, which could take months and months. And I, for one, would not feel comfortable living there knowing Terri is out on bail and *possibly* pretty mad about that. :waitasec:
The house would be a wonderful place for Desiree and Tony to stay during this time. I thought that might be the biggest reason for Kaine having the house free from Terri. Yes, its important for kids to be where they are comfortable, but with Baby K and her age, this may be more of a practical move, and as stated above, preparation for a safer time in the future.

Maybe all three adults will stay at the house until something is resolved concerning Kyron and the MFH plot.

liz b.
07-12-2010, 05:07 PM
"..someone other than..."

Interesting wording, imo, in that it does not say --someone in addition to--.




My interpretation of that is that she either confided in someone about what happened that day, they have reason to believe someone witnessed what she did or part of what she did, when she said she was doing something else. I don't think it necessarily supports an accomplice.


Hi AlexisFresca,
I take note that it does not say " someone else " "someone in addition to " or " TH is not the only one who might know what happened to Kyron ".... It's such a clear little sentence : "someone other than "......

All JMO

xin
07-12-2010, 05:08 PM
Anyone else get the feeling that KH and DY might be testifying? Wonder if we'll hear "grand jury" any time soon?

With all the *leaks* in this case, we have not really heard even the faintest whisper (have we?) about possible convening of, or testimony at, the Grand Jury, which supports the guess that leaks are strategic.

Surely the media has somebody camped out where the GJ meets to see who comes and goes, and following key witnesses, but oh so silent. Nobody wants to mess up the case.

imho

scotslass
07-12-2010, 05:08 PM
To see her child? If I were innocent I would fire my attorney if he didn't fight for me to see my child. Unless she is worried about something bigger. Truth is the best defense. If she didn't try to hire the landscaper to kill her husband then they wouldn't have any evidence so what would she care? Just trying to think why a woman who by all accounts loved her baby very much wouldn't fight to be in her life. I can't think of any good reason.

BBM

I can,
1> she loves her daughter, she is at a tender age of 19mnths who wants to put there baby in the media spotlight? Perhaps feels she could be arrested at any time. Right now TH every move is looked at, the press are tracking her down etc .. Why put your child through the same nightmare you are living.

2. her lawyer may have advised not bringing this into the court room just yet. Doesn't mean she is not going to fight it just not at this time.

3. She may not be emotionally ready to fight KH on this, (The evidence we know is all circumstantial at this point.) Perhaps out of love for KH she couldn't take his only child from him at this time. Believes when her name is cleared K will be back with her.

4. With having to move etc, and no income perhaps she feels k is better where she is for the moment and access would be strained due to the circumstances.

With the family dynamics the way they are i can't see this being a harmonious set up.. for anyone.. A battle on this is for sure in the future but for now, with the allegations put forth I really do not think she would win any favours at this time. Courts obligations are to the child first and foremost not the parents. For now KH wins this one.

I could think of many more... It is way too early to judge TH I do not believe she has given up on her daughter, she will come out fighting at some point I believe.

xin
07-12-2010, 05:09 PM
The house would be a wonderful place for Desiree and Tony to stay during this time. I thought that might be the biggest reason for Kaine having the house free from Terri. Yes, its important for kids to be where they are comfortable, but with Baby K and her age, this may be more of a practical move, and as stated above, preparation for a safer time in the future.

Maybe all three adults will stay at the house until something is resolved concerning Kyron and the MFH plot.




I cannot imagine this scenario, but maybe it's just me.

imho

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 05:09 PM
Advising her not to contest the RO at this point in time is very smart, and in her best interest, regardless of guilt or innocence. jmo

I appreciate this post because I have nooooooooooo idea about any legal stuff.

ClueMeIn
07-12-2010, 05:12 PM
That isn't really what it says at all, it states that she will be seeking separate counsel (i.e. another attorney who specializes in family relations) to deal with the dissolution matters. That means that future custody would be determined within those procedures. The RO is a TEMPORARY matter, and can be contested at any time, but if she is only interested in the determination of custody and NOT in having any contact with KH, then the definitive way to do that is within the regular procedures for a divorce and custody arrangements. All of those arrangements can be worked out WITHOUT involving any court proceedings and in most divorce cases, that is what happens. Their separate attorneys can come to an agreement within DAYS if that is what they want.

You cannot fight the restraining order anytime you want. You can only contest for a certain amount of time, once a year.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Advising her not to contest the RO at this point in time is very smart, and in her best interest, regardless of guilt or innocence. jmo

I realize it's a crim def atty's job to think about only his client's best interest but wouldn't a mother feel that it is in her baby's best interest not to be completely alienated from her previous primary caretaker, particularly if said caretaker is not a danger to her family?

raeann
07-12-2010, 05:14 PM
Interesting that many assign the motives of an angel to DY for not fighting for her child against KH, yet it is evil incarnate for TH not to do the same thing. Not trying to start an argument....just thought it interesting that TH is now in the same position as DY was almost exactly. They both had to ask themselves, what is best for my child RIGHT NOW, in my current situation?

jmo

Emeralgem
07-12-2010, 05:15 PM
Very interesting. So maybe Houze, who we now know IS taking on the divorce, does not want any more domestic evidence coming up/going on the record.
It's almost like she's given up, seems she would want to drag this out too, but NO. Remember, references to her concern over custody issues. More skeletons, etc.

IMHO.
Thanks for link.

My understanding is her attorney is stating she plans to seek separate representation for the divorce, am I wrong?

Calliope
07-12-2010, 05:15 PM
The dormant lawyer-wannabe in me might agree that it's the best policy not to contest, it's just that the mother in me would never, ever think it's insignificant if someone told me that I couldn't see my baby. Especially not if I was innocent of the charges against me.
I know. But I think I could be convinced.

I understand how you feel, Terri, and I know it's hard not to be with your child right now. But in order to contest this temporary order, we will have to lay our defense cards on the table and that will compromise your defense in a potential criminal trial, and if we lose that one, you won't have your daughter in your life ever again.

I wouldn't like it, but I could be convinced.

JSR
07-12-2010, 05:17 PM
Quote
Accordingly,Ms Rackner and I agree that there is no further need for a hearing before the court and that the court may strike the scheduled proceeding from it's calendar.


Does this mean they are dropping the RO?

No it just means the HEARING is off calendar.

Calliope
07-12-2010, 05:17 PM
Interesting that many assign the motives of an angel to DY for not fighting for her child against KH, yet it is evil incarnate for TH not to do the same thing. Not trying to start an argument....just thought it interesting that TH is now in the same position as DY was almost exactly. They both had to ask themselves, what is best for my child RIGHT NOW, in my current situation?

jmo

good point

Mylou
07-12-2010, 05:17 PM
Interesting that many assign the motives of an angel to DY for not fighting for her child against KH, yet it is evil incarnate for TH not to do the same thing. Not trying to start an argument....just thought it interesting that TH is now in the same position as DY was almost exactly. They both had to ask themselves, what is best for my child RIGHT NOW, in my current situation?

jmo

ouch! strange how history repeats.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Interesting that many assign the motives of an angel to DY for not fighting for her child against KH, yet it is evil incarnate for TH not to do the same thing. Not trying to start an argument....just thought it interesting that TH is now in the same position as DY was almost exactly. They both had to ask themselves, what is best for my child RIGHT NOW, in my current situation?

jmo

It's not the same at all because DY was AFAIK never forbidden to see Kyron.
She has had plenty of visitation time and was always an important part of Kyron's life but if this RO is in effect for a year (for example), Terri's baby is young enough to forget and she'll be a stranger to her when it's dropped.

raeann
07-12-2010, 05:18 PM
You cannot fight the restraining order anytime you want. You can only contest for a certain amount of time, once a year.[/QUOTE]

The point is, she may never need to fight the RO. If a divorce agreement is reached with custody decided there, it can be dropped by the person who requested it. Done then, and finished with no big court fight and media circus.

jmo

JSR
07-12-2010, 05:18 PM
My understanding is her attorney is stating she plans to seek separate representation for the divorce, am I wrong?

No. That's what he said was her intentions.

raeann
07-12-2010, 05:24 PM
It's not the same at all because DY was AFAIK never forbidden to see Kyron.


As I said, not wanting to start any kind of argument, but just saying that her motives for wanting what is best for Baby K right now, could be the same exact ones as those of DY in wanting Kyron to be in the best situation at the time.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:25 PM
The point is, she may never need to fight the RO. If a divorce agreement is reached with custody decided there, it can be dropped by the person who requested it. Done then, and finished with no big court fight and media circus.

jmo

Would anyone care to guess what are the odds that Terri and Kaine are going to have an amicable divorce and settle the custody in a mutually acceptable manner out of court after all this?

seeking truth
07-12-2010, 05:26 PM
Sigh.
It is all I can do from brain vomiting via my fingers on this computer. I've lurked through this case most of the time and its a struggle to keep from just, IDK...TYPING.
I don't even know what would be best for kaine and the baby after I've thought about it. She WILL know where they are and since no one knows what TH's mindframe is at the present time...who knows if she will respect the RO.
We do know that IF she respects the RO, she will have to move out when Kaine and the baby aren't around. So, if I am thinking logically (which is a stretch) TH will most likely move out before KH and the baby move back in...it most certainly could go the other way, but this seems like it would work better.
As for TH not contesting to see her baby...that kind of makes me uber curious. I do not have any kids and prolly won't (if i cant raise 2 70lbs dogs correctly...sheesh!!) so I don't know the ins and outs of PPD or parenting...but while she has some legal stuff on her plate...showing that she wants to see her baby would make me feel a tad bit more compassion for her.

All my window of opinion.To SummerRave,

As to the words of your post I bolded I just wanted to say, thanks for your very creative use of the English language and for some dark comedic relief. (Creative people are often not the most logical, though I'm not saying that YOU are not logical!)

As to the part of your post that I underlined, I am hoping, along with others here, that, in the knowledge and horror and senselessness of the great possibility that Teri hurt Kyron and attempted to have Kaine murdered, Terri she is actually doing a selfless and compassionate deed, at this time, by not fighting to see Baby K.

We can always hope, even though it often appears that there is no hope for any type of redemption in some of our fellow human beings.

My thoughts and opinions, and thanks for the laugh amongst the horror of this all.

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:28 PM
As I said, not wanting to start any kind of argument, but just saying that her motives for wanting what is best for Baby K right now, could be the same exact ones as those of DY in wanting Kyron to be in the best situation at the time.

Maybe but the effect upon the baby is far more devastating, IMO. It's huge for a child of that age to be completely separated from the person who has been taking care of her most of the time, and she's recently lost her brother too.

debirlfan
07-12-2010, 05:31 PM
Hi AlexisFresca,
I take note that it does not say " someone else " "someone in addition to " or " TH is not the only one who might know what happened to Kyron ".... It's such a clear little sentence : "someone other than "......

All JMO

If she handed Kyron off to someone for safekeeping, she might not know exactly where they currently are.

scotslass
07-12-2010, 05:34 PM
Maybe but the effect upon the baby is far more devastating, IMO. It's huge for a child of that age to be completely separated from the person who has been taking care of her most of the time, and she's recently lost her brother too.


fighting this may not have changed that outcome, i suspect she was counselled that it would not... JMO Also the other custodial parent should be asked the same questions..why no access was requested and not supervised access..

JMHO... No real argument wanted :)

For The Kids
07-12-2010, 05:37 PM
I think there is a baby that misses her mommy too.I do not feel it is in the babies best interest to keep her away from her mommy.I just don't.She was the primary care taker of this child.I feel it's best this baby is with both parents.Even if it's supervised visitations with her mommy Terri.

The problem is..Terri doesnt appear to think her baby is worth fighting for :(

JMO

Kimster
07-12-2010, 05:38 PM
No, I think my words are getting twisted a bit. I was just saying I don't know, because I truly don't know. There was a thread for discussing possibilities that TH was innocent, but it was closed and since then I've been confused about what we can and cannot discuss when it comes to non-TH theories. I'm in favor of discussing lots of possibilities, including theories that don't involve TH killing Kyron, but realize my theories and ideas are far from the majority.

We do NOT have a TH only policy. We have a policy where we don't sleuth people named in the media as suspects.

The threads about TH possibilities of being innocent were closed due to members being snarky to each other. If you'd like to open another one, be our guest. But next time Time Outs will be issued if people want to be rude, post rumors and go off topic.

WhyaDuck?
07-12-2010, 05:39 PM
I realize it's a crim def atty's job to think about only his client's best interest but wouldn't a mother feel that it is in her baby's best interest not to be completely alienated from her previous primary caretaker, particularly if said caretaker is not a danger to her family?

She likely realizes that KH and DY will be ten times harder on her in the press if she fights. It's likely better to take the path of least resistance for now. When you realize everyone in the world is against you, sometimes you just go limp, IMO.

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 05:39 PM
To SummerRave,

As to the words of your post I bolded I just wanted to say, thanks for your very creative use of the English language and for some dark comedic relief. (Creative people are often not the most logical, though I'm not saying that YOU are not logical!)

As to the part of your post that I underlined, I am hoping, along with others here, that, in the knowledge and horror and senselessness of the great possibility that Teri hurt Kyron and attempted to have Kaine murdered, Terri she is actually doing a selfless and compassionate deed, at this time, by not fighting to see Baby K.

We can always hope, even though it often appears that there is no hope for any type of redemption in some of our fellow human beings.

My thoughts and opinions, and thanks for the laugh amongst the horror of this all.



This is what I love about WS....i can throw down an opinion and be sure that Im stuck with that opinion and then be completely open minded to another logical, well thought out post.
There have been many a time where I can't sleep because of a case (i heavily lurked the C.M.A case) and when I am thinking...what am I missing? I run down to the computer, go to WS and usuallly find mind bending ways to think about a case.
Back to subject.
You know...i would hope that she was doing something selfless. I would hope that she is fully invested in the fact that she is losing everything at the hand of her "not cooperating" and figures that she should prolly let this one go. But if I saw her kicking and fighting and screaming about not being able to see her daughter, then maybe I would feel a little more, oh, i don't know...feeling as if she had a little bit of a heart, of a need for her kids.

But....that is just me.

(and thanks for the creative kudos...I am a freelance writer!)

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 05:40 PM
Mondays are always so interesting aren't they? :waitasec:

Would it be too hopeful of me to say I smell a deal? Probably, but ... what the heck, I'll say it.

I smell a deal. :yes:

This my speculative thought of the day:

Terri plays nice and gives up all rights regarding custody and property and a few other things - such as her freedom (minimum of x years) - in return for the name of the person "who knows what happened to Kyron".

would explain:

1. Desiree, Tony & Kaine pressers pressure - gang up on Terri non-stop for a week, then... quit

2. After only one week of the "new twice weekly press schedule" the "team" takes an announced break - for an entire week - with regard to further press meetings and/or public beatings upon Terri.

3. Houze letter with Terri 100% RO concessions and the unceremonioualy "tossing" of her dissolution action off on another attorney (marital) at a later time ... (as if the RO is important to Houze (*bargaining chip*) but the dissolution is not).

4. Terri with Houze staff escort - (i.e. Houze's resources devoted to Terri end of last week - and Terri working on her situation with Houz & staff.)

5. Sources saying someone other than Terri knows what happened to Kyron

6. Nobody seems to care much about what Chas thinks he saw in a white truck on that Trail Road.

7. Terri not contesting RO, including no rights to see baby, staying clear of the gym, etc, and agreeing to move out of home.

JMHO...
and I may add a few thoughts here in a bit...I keep being interrupted. :crazy:

For The Kids
07-12-2010, 05:40 PM
I know. But I think I could be convinced.

I understand how you feel, Terri, and I know it's hard not to be with your child right now. But in order to contest this temporary order, we will have to lay our defense cards on the table and that will compromise your defense in a potential criminal trial, and if we lose that one, you won't have your daughter in your life ever again.

I wouldn't like it, but I could be convinced.

But I thought one of the reasons Kaine got this RO was because of the MFH? Now if this fell apart as people claim surely that would help Terri to get to see her daughter?

Kimster
07-12-2010, 05:42 PM
Please discuss the other person who might know where Kyron is here: Does someone else besides TH know what happened to Kyron? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

This thread is for the response to the RO, Terri moving out, etc.

believe09
07-12-2010, 05:42 PM
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Court-doc-Kaine-Terri-Horman-kyron-horman-contempt-sexting-98270654.html

Now we know why she conceded....she is accused of attempting to abduct the baby from the gym daycare and of showing the sealed RO to another person.

Well then.

mchris1024
07-12-2010, 05:43 PM
The problem is..Terri doesnt appear to think her baby is worth fighting for :(

JMO

This is the one thing that has bothered me the most, I can't imagine!

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:44 PM
fighting this may not have changed that outcome, i suspect she was counselled that it would not... JMO Also the other custodial parent should be asked the same questions..why no access was requested and not supervised access..

JMHO... No real argument wanted :)

It does seem extreme but I suppose if you really think that somebody is out to get you and already did something to your other child you wouldn't want to give her any chance to even spit toward your remaining child.

SummerRaye
07-12-2010, 05:47 PM
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Court-doc-Kaine-Terri-Horman-kyron-horman-contempt-sexting-98270654.html

Now we know why she conceded....she is accused of attempting to abduct the baby from the gym daycare and of showing the sealed RO to another person.

Well then.

I take a break to sign for the pizza that just arrived and come back to THIS?

Donjeta
07-12-2010, 05:48 PM
Quoting Raeann

I guess I am just looking at it from a physical safety standpoint for the child. What if TH had been carrying Baby K the other day when she was accosted by the reporter with a camera? It would be terrifying for a child to have that happen, not to mention, video of the child would have been all over the media. And what if it wasn't a reporter lurking in that garage, but some crazy who thought that it was their "mission" to rescue Baby K from TH? Some separation anxiety is already occurring, but being handed back and forth and having strangers waiting in ambush around every corner with unknown motives is a whole lot worse than that.

Good point but I dare say that supervised visits could be arranged so that the dangers from random crackpots and reporters could be eliminated.

desquire
07-12-2010, 05:50 PM
I think folks are jumping the gun based on bad news reporting. Although the article said TH was not contestinganything in the RO, including the custody piece, the documents don't support that. Houze's letter simply said that TH "will not be contesting any matters to be heard in the scheduled hearing set for July 22, 2010 at 1:30." According to the order granting the expedited hearing, the only matters scheduled to be heard were KH's motion to amend the RO to require TH to vacate the home and correction of a clerical error in the original RO. Custody was not one of the matters to be heard at the expedited hearing on the 22nd and, therefore, TH may still be planning to contest that part.

For The Kids
07-12-2010, 05:51 PM
Interesting that many assign the motives of an angel to DY for not fighting for her child against KH, yet it is evil incarnate for TH not to do the same thing. Not trying to start an argument....just thought it interesting that TH is now in the same position as DY was almost exactly. They both had to ask themselves, what is best for my child RIGHT NOW, in my current situation?

jmo

The thing is DY was in the position SHE was in due to ill health and was away from her child for some time because of it. She was not believed to be responsible for the disappearance of one child and hadnt been accused of trying to hire someone to kill her husband,

I REALLY am at a low how any one can compare the situations. Desiree had no choice but to leave her child whereas any problems Terri has IMO are of her doing.

MOO

LNL
07-12-2010, 06:00 PM
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Court-doc-Kaine-Terri-Horman-kyron-horman-contempt-sexting-98270654.html

Now we know why she conceded....she is accused of attempting to abduct the baby from the gym daycare and of showing the sealed RO to another person.

Well then.
Wow! What a soap opera.

AlexisFresca
07-12-2010, 06:00 PM
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Court-doc-Kaine-Terri-Horman-kyron-horman-contempt-sexting-98270654.html

Now we know why she conceded....she is accused of attempting to abduct the baby from the gym daycare and of showing the sealed RO to another person.

Well then.


WOW! I can't even begin to imagine trying to keep this cluster in an organized stack. This is just crazy. Seriously, how many walls of flowcharts do we have here with this case?

Well, this answers several questions for us. She does miss her baby girl, but tried to go outside the law for not only visitation purposes, but likely for permanent residence with her and not Kaine. Maybe thats why she didn't try to flee the country, she wouldn't do it without her daughter (if she was to attempt). The restraining order and divorce filing were done on a Monday, right? (date escapes me) The Monday after the weekend - Saturday when two calls were made to 911 from the Hrman house.

gibby207
07-12-2010, 06:05 PM
................whoa..............

scotslass
07-12-2010, 06:06 PM
The thing is DY was in the position SHE was in due to ill health and was away from her child for some time because of it. She was not believed to be responsible for the disappearance of one child and hadnt been accused of trying to hire someone to kill her husband,

I REALLY am at a low how any one can compare the situations. Desiree had no choice but to leave her child whereas any problems Terri has IMO are of her doing.

MOO


Unless she is innocent of all allegations..:)

For The Kids
07-12-2010, 06:08 PM
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Court-doc-Kaine-Terri-Horman-kyron-horman-contempt-sexting-98270654.html

Now we know why she conceded....she is accused of attempting to abduct the baby from the gym daycare and of showing the sealed RO to another person.

Well then.

So her step son that she raised is missing...and instead of having lie detectors etc she starts an affair ?? Oh Wow!

The other Website for Kyron that was suddenly taken down i believe was made from a old school/college friend of Kaines. I wonder if its the guy shes now meant to be seeing?

WhyaDuck?
07-12-2010, 06:11 PM
There's a thread on the "other relationship" allegations here if people want to discuss it:

TH in another relationship - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

seeking truth
07-12-2010, 06:12 PM
This is what I love about WS....i can throw down an opinion and be sure that Im stuck with that opinion and then be completely open minded to another logical, well thought out post.
There have been many a time where I can't sleep because of a case (i heavily lurked the C.M.A case) and when I am thinking...what am I missing? I run down to the computer, go to WS and usuallly find mind bending ways to think about a case.
Back to subject.
You know...i would hope that she was doing something selfless. I would hope that she is fully invested in the fact that she is losing everything at the hand of her "not cooperating" and figures that she should prolly let this one go. But if I saw her kicking and fighting and screaming about not being able to see her daughter, then maybe I would feel a little more, oh, i don't know...feeling as if she had a little bit of a heart, of a need for her kids.

But....that is just me.

(and thanks for the creative kudos...I am a freelance writer!)

I really understand NOT understanding why a mother is not fighting for her child. But, Terri's circumstances sound like they have placed her in the pit of he** and doing anything rational may be completely impossible at this point.

It is too much of a nightmare to even imagine, let alone trying to place oneself in any of these people's shoes. If Terri has stuff going on below the surface it must be unbearable. I think what is really terrifying is seeing little glimpses of her, and hearing about her actions, and then knowing it's possible that she is lacking in those qualities that make us uniquely human; empathy, remorse, grief; a conscience.

No surprise you are a free-lance writer! Lucky!

My opinions.

For The Kids
07-12-2010, 06:12 PM
Unless she is innocent of all allegations..:)

To be honest IF shes innocent of all allegations she has no reason not to cooperate with the cops..or to do her lie detectors..

JMO

desquire
07-12-2010, 06:13 PM
Wow! What a soap opera.

No kidding.
The contempt motion really serves no purpose but to publicly trash TH and her alleged boyfriend. (They purport to have done it to keep her from divulging his 'undisclosed location' to anyone else but, seeing as he and the baby will be moving back into the family home soon, WTH?) KH has plenty of reason to be pissed but, really, how does any of this help Kyron or his little sister?

gitana1
07-12-2010, 06:14 PM
Would she even really have a right to refuse to leave? I mean the home is solely in Kaine's name isn't it?

Yes, she would have the right until the final judgment of divorce and unless Kaine got a court order saying otherwise in the meantime. Married people can't be kicked out of the homes they were living in when a dissolution of marriage case is filed without good reason, regardless of whose name title is in.

gitana1
07-12-2010, 06:19 PM
According to this, ouster is mandatory if the petitioner requests it. She had no say in the matter, really.

http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/courtimprovement/familylaw/FAPA_Benchguide_4-24-06.pdf

That's actually not true. Ouster is only mandatory if abuse is actually proven, not just because the Petitioner is requesting it.

gitana1
07-12-2010, 06:21 PM
In his letter, Houze said Terri Horman would not be contesting any of the matters before the court, including a restraining order that prevents her from any parenting time with her daughter, K.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html

Now that is incredible. If she is not contesting a no contact order with her own child, something is very, very rotten in Denmark.

believe09
07-12-2010, 06:21 PM
I am not trying to derail the thread regarding the allegations of an affair and violating the RO-I am trying to draw a dotted line to the concession and the possibility that she is not in a position to fight either item that had been scheduled for the hearing.

gitana1
07-12-2010, 06:28 PM
I think folks are jumping the gun based on bad news reporting. Although the article said TH was not contestinganything in the RO, including the custody piece, the documents don't support that. Houze's letter simply said that TH "will not be contesting any matters to be heard in the scheduled hearing set for July 22, 2010 at 1:30." According to the order granting the expedited hearing, the only matters scheduled to be heard were KH's motion to amend the RO to require TH to vacate the home and correction of a clerical error in the original RO. Custody was not one of the matters to be heard at the expedited hearing on the 22nd and, therefore, TH may still be planning to contest that part.

But there is reference in the article to a court filing on the part of TH which states she will not be contesting any part of the RO. Who is the letter to? I'm trying to figure this out because there has certainly been some shoddy reporting in this case.

gitana1
07-12-2010, 06:34 PM
Okay, now I see. The letter was filed by the court. But is TH's attorney then conceding that she has been in contempt? Because that is a matter set to be heard on the 22nd, right? What about the rest of the RO request? When is all of that set for?

prettyinpink
07-12-2010, 06:35 PM
I agree that she should leave the house, but what if she disappears?

scotslass
07-12-2010, 06:38 PM
To be honest IF shes innocent of all allegations she has no reason not to cooperate with the cops..or to do her lie detectors..

JMO

agreed.. but the only statement i heard/saw from LE was that TH was cooperating.

I also have only heard/saw from other sources that 2 poly's were completed, one walked out on.

Not saying TH is innocent just not ready to convict her either :)

Zoe Bogart
07-12-2010, 08:01 PM
Whatever the outcome of the case is, it is kind of scary if wives have basically no rights as to regards property in any state these days.

snipped for space

This really isn't about women's rights. This is about a "possible" dangerous woman who has (allegedly) offered to contract a hit man to kill her husband, and about a woman who lost a young child on her watch. Last week, some were upset about Kaine getting a restraining order against her and his getting custody of their daughter, saying they would fight to get their child back.

This is a totally different situation than the usual domestic disputes we hear about - custody battles, divorce, division of property, etc. In this case, the law has to side with the potential victims. It's the judge's duty to make sure Kaine and the baby aren't in danger from this woman if she truly is violent. :cow:

This isn't about "women's rights" in any shape or form. It does help Kaine that the house is in his name and it was the domicile of his two children. Property settlements, as well as custody issues, will be settled by the court in due time. Right now, the issue is the safety of Kaine and the baby.

There's also the fact TH may not want to go to court. Also, patience can work to her advantage, especially if she is innocent of any crime. Putting the child's welfare above her own desires has its advantages, if one is innocent. :cow:

Just for the record, I'm a strict advocate of equal rights for women.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 08:28 PM
So if she isn't fighting this does that mean she agrees with it?
Is she admitting to the MFH plot, by not fighting it?

grandmaj
07-12-2010, 08:32 PM
I believe at this time Terri's attorney does not want to go on the record regarding anything. She is only "not contesting" she isn't admitting to anything. MOO

BeanE
07-12-2010, 09:03 PM
I agree that she should leave the house, but what if she disappears?

Just follow her cell phone pings. Apparently she has quite a few of them...

grandmaj
07-12-2010, 11:31 PM
I believe at this time Terri's attorney does not want to go on the record regarding anything. She is only "not contesting" she isn't admitting to anything. MOO

Quoting myself because I just had another idea. If Terri's attorney was trying to keep her off the record so that she wouldn't say anything that could hurt her in the Missing Kyron case, this is a perfectly choreographed dance. Because with the contempt charges, she must appear in court now or she could be jailed. The walls are closing in.

Kat
07-12-2010, 11:42 PM
I know I saw a PDF of the letter TMH's attn wrote to the court...somwhere!

Does anyone know where it was? TIA.

Kat
07-12-2010, 11:47 PM
In his letter, Houze said Terri Horman would not be contesting any of the matters before the court, including a restraining order that prevents her from any parenting time with her daughter, K.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyrons_stepmom_wont_contest_he.html

BUMP

Here it is, in case anyone else needs to look at it again. Just scroll to the bottom of the link that Mylou posted.

wondering1
07-12-2010, 11:48 PM
Quoting myself because I just had another idea. If Terri's attorney was trying to keep her off the record so that she wouldn't say anything that could hurt her in the Missing Kyron case, this is a perfectly choreographed dance. Because with the contempt charges, she must appear in court now or she could be jailed. The walls are closing in.

But I fear that the scope of that questioning will be very limited.

Q: Did you show MC the RO?

A:Yes.

Q:When did you show MC the RO?

A:On x date [sometime after it was sealed and before it was released]

Judge: I find that the defendant is contempt of the court order sealing the RO. I sentence her to ......

Anything else would draw a sustainable objection based on relevance to the specific contempt charge.imojmo.

Kat
07-12-2010, 11:50 PM
wondering or anyone that knows a question?

In the letter her attn wrote it says she's not contesting anything.

That she is going to get a seperate lawyer for the divorce.

Would that attn be the one that addresses her rights to have visitation with her child?

Thank you in advance for insight and info!

ZL27
07-13-2010, 07:32 PM
She's not contesting it as long as Kaine gives her money.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98369319.html

(Grrrrrrrr....Must not fly to Portland and throttle Terri...)

human
07-13-2010, 08:14 PM
She's not contesting it as long as Kaine gives her money.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/98369319.html

(Grrrrrrrr....Must not fly to Portland and throttle Terri...)

Quite frankly, I would not want to live in that house.

I would cut my losses, give a quit claim deed and let her take over the payments, the insurance, taxes, electricity, etc.

I don't have anyway of knowing how much they owe on the house, but with the poor housing market, and the history of the house, she probably wouldn't be able to sell it.

She can find a job (ha ha)

pinkpuddytat
07-13-2010, 10:37 PM
wonder if she knows she'll be staying a the grey bar hotel pretty soon anyways

Either that, or the "men in white coats" hotel. I expect her attorney has spelled out her hotel options for her.

pinkpuddytat
07-13-2010, 10:46 PM
I for one will feel a whole lot better if there are LOTS of media there when KH goes home....the more protection around him the better....he and that baby need to feel safe and I don't know that I could lay my head down in that home for awhile but I understand he wants to give the baby her home back.IMO

Not necessarily. Maybe he just wants to get the house on the market. It's not like it could be shown with Terri still living there. It looks like a nice little house for a family with a working dad, stay-at-home mom, a school-aged little boy, and a baby girl. But it's not terribly practical for a single working father of one baby girl, not to mention the haunting memories.

pinkpuddytat
07-13-2010, 10:51 PM
Well maybe Kaine, since he's gotten to know the reporters, could ask them to leave after Terri leaves, so the baby doesn't come home to a circus, and he can get her settled back in calmly and quietly. I think the reporters would understand and comply with that for the baby's sake.

The house is set way back from the road. Reporters can't get anywhere near the house without getting arrested, unless they have permission from the property owner. Kaine and Baby K would probably have to drive past a gaggle of reporters and photographers on the public road, next to the driveway entrance, but that would be over in a few seconds.

wondering1
07-13-2010, 11:04 PM
wondering or anyone that knows a question?

In the letter her attn wrote it says she's not contesting anything.

That she is going to get a seperate lawyer for the divorce.

Would that attn be the one that addresses her rights to have visitation with her child?

Thank you in advance for insight and info!

sorry, I just saw this now. I think Houze has now said he will defend the family law case, as well. The visitation and custody, however, can't be addressed apart from the RO. She needs to get that out of the way before she can get into the regular family court aspects of custody. In other words, custody in the context of a typical family court proceeding can't go forward if there's a separate RO in place precluding any contact. The RO must be modified to allow some contact first. It looks to me like they intend to do this all at once on July 22nd, which is unusual ime. Typically, the RO court and the family court are completely separate.

christee
07-13-2010, 11:12 PM
Has anyone read that TH is accused of trying to abduct the baby? Foxnews article says that the attempt was made a few hours before the RO was to take effect.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/13/kyron-hormans-stepmom-accused-abduction-attempt-sexting-friend/

If this is old news, please forgive!

Kat
07-14-2010, 01:12 AM
sorry, I just saw this now. I think Houze has now said he will defend the family law case, as well. The visitation and custody, however, can't be addressed apart from the RO. She needs to get that out of the way before she can get into the regular family court aspects of custody. In other words, custody in the context of a typical family court proceeding can't go forward if there's a separate RO in place precluding any contact. The RO must be modified to allow some contact first. It looks to me like they intend to do this all at once on July 22nd, which is unusual ime. Typically, the RO court and the family court are completely separate.

Thank you wondering.

It has been reported she is requesting funds from her Husband. Under Oregon law doesn't she have the right to request half of what they've accumulated or at the very least money to for finding another place to live and support until she can find a job?

(I'm sorry for asking what seems to be such a silly question but in the military community that I live within, the above is a given and ordered by regulation~ just trying to understand the oregon civilian laws)

TIA.

RoughlyCollie
07-14-2010, 06:47 AM
I would cut my losses, give a quit claim deed and let her take over the payments, the insurance, taxes, electricity, etc.

KH owned the house before he got married to TH. This is a short-term marriage of only 3 years. If he has any assets accumulated prior to this marriage, I think he should keep them if he can.

By the time this gets to divorce court, I hope Kyron has been found and the perp arrested. That may make all this a moot point.

nyvictoria
07-14-2010, 07:01 AM
bbm

Now THAT is the interesting part. Really? She has no interest in fighting to see her baby? Well, doesn't that take the cake? It really is all about TERRI.

Well, well well...I just heard the other shoe drop. If she's not fighting to see Baby K, she must know she'll never win that fight.

nyvictoria
07-14-2010, 07:06 AM
I find it unbelievable that people can criticize DY and say she can't possibly miss Kyron because she didn't have him full-time while, at the same time, defending Terri's decision not to fight to see her daughter.

Sometimes, I just don't get it :waitasec:

kimmera
07-14-2010, 07:12 AM
Well, well well...I just heard the other shoe drop. If she's not fighting to see Baby K, she must know she'll never win that fight.

This speaks volumes to me as well. I would think that since she has a 'high powered attorney' working for her, we would have heard about her filing for a modification of that RO by now, to at least allow her supervised visitation with the child. But it would appear that she doesn't care about that from what the attorney has said thus far. BUT, she does care about getting 'her' money...it's all about Terri all of the time it would seem. :furious:

GrainneDhu
07-14-2010, 07:47 AM
KH owned the house before he got married to TH. This is a short-term marriage of only 3 years. If he has any assets accumulated prior to this marriage, I think he should keep them if he can.

By the time this gets to divorce court, I hope Kyron has been found and the perp arrested. That may make all this a moot point.

KH bought that house three months before he and TMH married, at a time when they were already co-habiting. In my state (I don't know about Oregon), the period of co-habitation before marriage would be treated as part of the term of the marriage.

While he probably does have assets accumulated from before marriage to TMH, somehow I doubt real estate was amongst them. Someone else posted here (can't remember who, sorry) that he sold his previous house for $70K less than he bought it for.

I doubt that finding Kyron and the perpetrator will make any difference to the motion to dissolve the marriage. If TMH did it, well, obviously, no difference. If TMH is factually innocent, do you really think either one of them would be willing to resume the marriage? I sure don't.

RoughlyCollie
07-14-2010, 08:05 AM
Well, well well...I just heard the other shoe drop. If she's not fighting to see Baby K, she must know she'll never win that fight.

I think her attorney advised her not to fight it for reasons we do not know. That doesn't mean she is happy about the situation.