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View Full Version : Levi Page Show 7/12/10 9 PM ET / 6 PT


Levi
07-12-2010, 05:58 PM
Tonight Criminal Profiler Pat Brown and Former Police Chief Dr. Richard Weinblatt will be discussing the Kyron Horman case.

If you have any questions/comments post them here and I'll relay them to the guests for their thoughts.

Or you can call: 347-838-9781 when the show starts.

Here is the link to the show: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage/2010/07/13/levi-page-show

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 07:45 PM
Hi Levi,
Could you PLEASE find out the correct time that Kyron was last seen, was it 8:45 or was it 9:00am when the other student said he saw Kyron, where he was supposedly going to see an electric project.

Can Terri be suffering PPD this long after the birth of baby K.

What is LE's stratagy with Terri? Are Kaine and Desiree "leaking" this information about Terri, and the polygraph's and the other information because they are anrgy parents or because LE wants this information released to apply pressure.

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 07:52 PM
Hi Levi.

I dunno. After today - I guess I would ask the professionals - why would anyone have any questions? And what the heck more do they need to move Terri to the Multnomah Greybar Hotel?

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 07:58 PM
I have another question, what do they need to arrest her? they already know she lied about where she was that morning, can they not arrest her for lieing, interferring with an investigation something?????

Kat010
07-12-2010, 08:03 PM
Hi,

Something has been bothering me for quite awhile now. One of Kyron's friends at school said that he saw Kyron, and told him about the "cool" electric exhibit. If I'm remembering correctly from my reading, that was *after* Terri waved goodbye.

If this child saw Kyron after Terri left, why does LE continue to say that Terri was the last to see Kyron? The child who provided that information had to be brave to tell the police, and he was very specific--not a "oh I waved at him" but a definite comment linked to the day's activities. Why has his testimony been discounted from the very get-go?

Also, a child commented about the "sub", who proved (whoever it was) not to be a "sub." However, a child wouldn't be precise about the nomenclature--parent volunteer, etc. etc.--for someone unknown to him, and might just say "sub". So was someone else unknown to the general school population there during the pre-class milling around during the science fair?

Thanks for this opportunity.

ETA/typo

Levi
07-12-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm taking notes! GREAT questions!

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 08:47 PM
Terri not contesting the RO is she admitting to what the RO states? Is she admitting to the murder for hire plot? and what does Pat brown think about Terri willingness to let baby K go giving up her parental rights? Is Terri getting her affairs in order because she knows she is going to jail?
I cant wait for your show tonight Levi, I havent been able to listen in about a week.

Kimster
07-12-2010, 08:49 PM
I would like to know if the former police chief thinks that information is being released in stages so that it will apply more pressure and stress on Terri to tell the truth?

matou
07-12-2010, 08:54 PM
Hello Levi,

Can you ask if the profiler believes that Kyron could have been sexual abused by his stepmother? Could she exhibiting histrionic (over-sexualized) behavior? TIA

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 08:58 PM
So, has she always been this way or what?

Meaning - are we seeing normal Terri? Or some sort of psychotic break with Terri - starting with murder-for-hire and ending with Kyron and where she is today?

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:03 PM
Discussing Roman Polanski first

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:12 PM
something's wrong with the show

could only hear the guest saying "hello"

ETA: now can hear the Dr. (copdoc lol)

Angel4u2Whisper2
07-12-2010, 09:13 PM
Do we know if there was a life insurance policy on Kaine or Kyron?

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:15 PM
talking about Kyron

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:17 PM
recapping the Latest events

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:17 PM
I remember that show lol Arsenio Hall

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:17 PM
cop says, this case has shades of the Anthony's and the Cummings.

xin
07-12-2010, 09:18 PM
recapping the Latest events

that could take a while.
;)

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:18 PM
EWWW, there was pictures of Terri on the boyfriends phone

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:21 PM
good points about going on with life even though Kyron's missing

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:21 PM
Pat Brown, saying its odd that Terri would have an affair at this point in time, that Terri has no perceptution of how she appears, she seems psychopathic behavior. She is living like oh well Kyron is gone guess I'll live my life, very pschopathic.

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:21 PM
EWWW, there was pictures of Terri on the boyfriends phone

there's a thread here about it :sick:

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:23 PM
the cop thinks that Desiree and Kaine are not acting on the authority of LE

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:25 PM
Go Levi!!!!
Says Terri is pure evil, blows KC out of the water.
Talking about Terri hitting on the hit man.
PB talking about Terri uses her body to get what she wants.

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:25 PM
does she even think about the consequences for herself? do psychopaths in general consider the ramifications to themselves?

xin
07-12-2010, 09:26 PM
COOL, Levi: crediting the Websleuths on the air!!
Right on.
We are not just *sources*--we are for attribution.

YAY Levi. Getting the technology with this crime!

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:27 PM
PB says she beleives that Terri thinks she got away with it, so might as well move on with her life.
Terri has no consept of how guilty she appears

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:27 PM
Levi,

Allegedly the R.O. had not yet been served on TMH at the time she went to get her daughter at the gym on 6/28. If the R.O. had not yet been served, then she wasn't in any violation of anything at that point in time.

I feel this needs to be pointed out because you said she received the R.O. and then went to get her daughter, which is not what the article(s) state.

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:28 PM
nice to hear a cop say that LE might be waiting for the big fish

and in this case, the big fish would be bringing Kyron home to his rightful family

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:28 PM
cop thinks that they may have probable cause but they dont want to arrest her til they find Kyron

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:29 PM
nice to hear a cop say that LE might be waiting for the big fish

The big fish being brining Kyron home.

Sdays just because you have probable cause you dont act if you want to find the answers

xin
07-12-2010, 09:30 PM
How amazing is this case that we can click right to local radio and contribute to the programming? Stunning. Grass roots mystery solving. Pooling resources.

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:30 PM
"Probable cause" to make an arrest =/= proving the case in front of a jury. No DA is going to okay an arrest if they know they don't have enough evidence to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:31 PM
you gotta love Levi, he is AWESOME

xin
07-12-2010, 09:32 PM
PAT: specify your so-called "chat room," credit The Websleuths like you know you should, we KNOW where you read that...(8-9 months thing)

IMO/IIRC

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:32 PM
Talking about Michael C his facebook and stuff thats why I'm not updating I dont think we can discuss his facebook.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:34 PM
talking about how this guy MC just reappeared in Kaines life a few months ago. PB says it makes more since that she was having an affair prior.Questioning why he reappeared

xin
07-12-2010, 09:35 PM
Talking about Michael C his facebook and stuff thats why I'm not updating I dont think we can discuss his facebook.


I don't think that page is positively authentic~he should be SURE who owns a FB page before he starts blabbing about it~

IMO

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:35 PM
I'm getting the feeling MC had no idea what he was getting into
I think she took advantage of him

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:36 PM
Discussing the kid at school saying he saw Kyron after the 8:45 time, but the cop says that it may be that the child wanted to help and the statement may be true from the child but the time might not be right. LE has at this point constructed a timeline and so they know.

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 09:36 PM
experts on levi have voted.
terri is <looking like> a psychopath.
casey anthony the 2nd.
uses people, then throws them away when she's done.

LE's strategy is not to arrest Terri, but to get to that bigger goal - the one that lets them find Kyron...

P.S. Thanks Levi for asking my question. I liked the answer. :D

Kimster
07-12-2010, 09:36 PM
I don't think that page is positively authentic~he should be SURE who owns a FB page before he starts blabbing about it~

IMO

Levi may do as he wishes on his show, but this is why we don't do it here. :)

I'm sure that this man is going to be all over the MSM soon enough and we'll know.

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:37 PM
Levi,

TMH is not 'answering' or 'fighting' the R.O. because she would have to TESTIFY in a court of law about the allegations in the R.O. as part of the legal process to regain access to her daughter. Her lawyer is trying to avoid her testifying at all costs because the custody dispute and her testimony would then be used by the criminal investigators to help them make their case.

Kimster
07-12-2010, 09:38 PM
experts on levi have voted.
terri is <looking like> a psychopath.
casey anthony the 2nd.
uses people, then throws them away when she's done.

LE's strategy is not to arrest Terri, but to get to that bigger goal - the one that lets them find Kyron...

My first thought when I heard about TH's action with MC was that it sounded like another sociopath. :(

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:38 PM
PB says that she doesn't think that Terri cares to fight the RO, that she is like okay here

xin
07-12-2010, 09:39 PM
Levi may do as he wishes on his show, but this is why we don't do it here. :)

I'm sure that this man is going to be all over the MSM soon enough and we'll know.

Of course, this is entertainment, not journalism.
Thx.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:39 PM
Pat Brown says NO about PPD ,

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:40 PM
LMAO, PB says she has post, I dont want to be married to this guy, post I want my old body back after giving birth but not PPD

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:40 PM
hahaha Pat Brown:

what breakdown - you don't have a breakdown as a psychopath - you just get better at manipulating people

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:41 PM
PB, thinks that Terri wanted the whole CSI attention drama but didn't think the finger would be pointed at her. Said Terri is a psychopath and you are born that way she didnt just snap.

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 09:41 PM
oo thanks again for asking my other question.

THAT was a skeery answer. wowza.

"no - not a psychotic break - she was a psychopath since she was a wee little thing - she's just gotten better at it..."

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:42 PM
copdoc: behaving like a child, an evil child but a child

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:42 PM
ACK...

Levi is again misquoting the R.O. / TMH trying to abduct the daughter story.

Levi, according to the article, the R.O. was NOT YET given to TMH.

C'mon, let's get the facts right. I'm no fan of TMH, but I think it's very important to not perpetuate misinformation.

Kimster
07-12-2010, 09:42 PM
I've almost been afraid TH is pleased with how things are going along. She can move on now. :(

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:43 PM
Thank you Levi for asking my question. (-;

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:43 PM
{{ Where exactly is Levi reading to get his questions for the show this evening? This thread? Somewhere else on WS? }}

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:45 PM
arrest imminent?

copdoc: depends on what they know behind the scenes

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:47 PM
Cant guess about an arrest timeframe. Talking about what information they have behind the scenes. They could be talking to someone behind the scenes we havent heard

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:47 PM
{{ Where exactly is Levi reading to get his questions for the show this evening? This thread? Somewhere else on WS? }}

he's getting some from his chat room too (& of course his own brain)

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:48 PM
ACK...

Levi is again misquoting the R.O. / TMH trying to abduct the daughter story.

Levi, according to the article, the R.O. was NOT YET given to TMH.

C'mon, let's get the facts right. I'm no fan of TMH, but I think it's very important to not perpetuate misinformation.

he heard you & corrected :innocent:

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 09:48 PM
right here right now
ask a question!

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:48 PM
someone call in! (I would but I'm in Canada)

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:49 PM
There is specultation that Michael C didnt contact the family til after Kyron went missing

DidionFan
07-12-2010, 09:49 PM
I am really appreciating the insight to TH not seeing her actions as appearing guilty or wrong. Makes my thought on all this seem more natural. That's whats made me the most upset since week 1.

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:49 PM
LOL Pat Brown does not mince words

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 09:50 PM
psssstt...Levi - LE should know date of Terri-MC relationship - by the cell phone records...

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:50 PM
I hope LE is looking at this MC person

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:50 PM
so who's the source of all the leaks then?

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:51 PM
Yep, RUMORS are mostly what's floating around, not so much leaks from LE aside from maybe 1 or 2 things.

x_files
07-12-2010, 09:51 PM
Has the lawn guy's story been confirmed by police to be true?

Has Kaine been cleared? Where was his whereabouts on Friday June 4th?

thank you!

captivagrl
07-12-2010, 09:51 PM
I would like to know how many times police were called to that home prior to 6/4/2010?

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 09:51 PM
Ask Pat why Kaine might not have recognized the psychopath in Terri?

xin
07-12-2010, 09:52 PM
I would like to know how many times police were called to that home prior to 6/4/2010?

Yeah, me too.

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:52 PM
and how was LE able to get both cells? could they get a search warrant for them b/c Terri violated the RO?

did MC possibly volunteer his cell?

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:52 PM
Both beleives a lot of this is rumors and maybe one or two LE leaks to apply pressure

xin
07-12-2010, 09:53 PM
so who's the source of all the leaks then?

((Tony?))

Knee-jerk guess.

matou
07-12-2010, 09:54 PM
Can baby K be questioned by a child psychologist as to what she may have witnessed or heard that day?

xin
07-12-2010, 09:54 PM
and how was LE able to get both cells? could they get a search warrant for them b/c Terri violated the RO?

did MC possibly volunteer his cell?


Reminder: We do not know how many cells are involved nor where they were/are. BEtcha there are a bunch (add: belong to the Horman family)

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:54 PM
If Terri did this then Kyron isn't alive, because she has been watched and hasn't been able to take care of him, a lot of the sightings are wishful thinking.

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:55 PM
copdoc: children in more danger from people in inner circle

captivagrl
07-12-2010, 09:55 PM
Has TH's older son been interviewed? Who is his legal guardian at this point?

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:56 PM
Reminder: We do not know how many cells are involved nor where they were/are. BEtcha there are a bunch.

you think there were more 'sexting' cells?

LadyL
07-12-2010, 09:57 PM
copdoc: last word

Thanks Levi & guests!

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 09:57 PM
Pat brown says that Terri picked Kaine thats how she didnt recognozie her being pshyco. Kaines was needing someone to help with the baby he needed her and there was Terri to help.

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 09:58 PM
Thank you Levi! Good show. Appreciate your using WS questions and info in real-time; makes it a truly interactive experience. :-)

xin
07-12-2010, 09:58 PM
you think there were more 'sexting' cells?


I think there are more clues on more phones. She is REALLY into tech and game-playing. More people and more *stuff*~She could have had lots of phones. Him too. Techies. SP had 5.
IMHO

Emma Peel
07-12-2010, 09:59 PM
Thanks Levi! Great show!

I feel I might be able to be a little bit more patient while LE works for our "big fish" = bringing Kyron home.

:)

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 10:00 PM
That was a good show, alot of insight into picking Terri's brain and her behaviors,

xin
07-12-2010, 10:04 PM
That was a good show, alot of insight into picking Terri's brain and her behaviors,

It's almost like Levi and Pat are amongst us here, detectives too!

Pooling our brains, resources, community.
We want different ops though, we don't want to drive/over-influence public opinion. We need to always come back to KNOWN info. Facts as it were.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 10:05 PM
{{ Where exactly is Levi reading to get his questions for the show this evening? This thread? Somewhere else on WS? }}

Someone opens a Levi thread a few hours before showtime and we ask our questions here, then when the show starts he asks our questions as well as questions from the chat room at blog radio.

Sorry for all the spelling errors guys I was typing fast.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 10:07 PM
It's almost like Levi and Pat are amongst us here, detectives too!

Pooling our brains, resources, community.
We want different ops though, we don't want to drive/over-influence public opinion. We need to always come back to KNOWN info. Facts as it were.

Levi is a member here, he sometimes comes in after the show and talks with us.

cluciano63
07-12-2010, 10:08 PM
I don't know about PB...I'm no profiler but I've never heard her say much that I havenot thought of all on my own. "Course I have a family to be reckoned with...some of them would fill many of the slots on the wall of nuts and loose screws.

Terri may well be a socio/psychopath, which many on WS have been saying for weeks, and they can generally fool everyone except other socio/psychopaths. So Kaine could have been any man, he was just vulnerable if he was looking for help in caring for his child. It was her way in, without having to do the whole dating/seduction thing.

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 10:09 PM
Thanks Levi! Great show!

I feel I might be able to be a little bit more patient while LE works for our "big fish" = bringing Kyron home.

:)

I agree but patience isn't my strong point. LOL

The Haleigh case has ruined my pateince we thought forever they would arrest someone but still nothing but the drug charges.

Kat
07-12-2010, 10:14 PM
I think there are more clues on more phones. She is REALLY into tech and game-playing. More people and more *stuff*~She could have had lots of phones. Him too. Techies. SP had 5.
IMHO

Yup I agree xin. I betcha there is a lot of info on her puter. (email's, IM's...etc).

LadyL
07-12-2010, 10:16 PM
I think there are more clues on more phones. She is REALLY into tech and game-playing. More people and more *stuff*~She could have had lots of phones. Him too. Techies. SP had 5.
IMHO

where did you get that she's really into tech stuff?

the game playing is not tech-reliant (it's FB games, which I play & are really easy)

SleuthyGal
07-12-2010, 10:19 PM
And not to belabor the point, but I am a stickler for accurate facts in legal and crime cases, and that's why I endeavor to separate rumor from fact and correct misinformation when I see it. I'm not trying to be a P.I.A. (though I might excel at that), or pick on anyone, I'm just super anal about separating the wheat from the chaff in cases and being precise about information.

So please don't take offense Levi or anyone else. It's my little version of OCD <g>.

Kat010
07-12-2010, 10:24 PM
Thank you for asking my question re: Kyron's friend who told him about the electric exhibit.

Very logical answer. But now I question this: if the friend's timeline is "wrong" then maybe--if LE has another timeline--the friend spoke to him before Terri left.

If so, why didn't Terri mention that? It would be corroborating evidence that things were "normal" with her and Kyron, a friend spoke to him, she left.

If Terri is a sociopath/psychopath, then consequences don't "apply" to her in her world (they all think they're so much smarter than the rest of the chumps) and she will have no sense of emotional reaction, nor will she have a sense of guilt or right/wrong. It's just what's expedient for her or what she wants when she wants it.

Sociopaths are very clever at assimilating themselves and appearing "normal" when they choose to. That's why so many of them con and harm so many other people. Sociopaths can con anyone because they mimic human behavior and emotions so well, but they aren't really "human."

butterfly1978
07-12-2010, 10:28 PM
Kat you bring up a very good point. Levi on tommorrows show will you ask Pat Brown, how appling pressure to a psychopath could work, if they have no emotional reaction to anything how is Le expecting this to work? Are they just going to hope something breaks, because if she is a psychopath all the embarrasment, all the pressure all the pleas by family are not going to work, because she doesn't care.

s_finch
07-13-2010, 12:07 AM
I don't know about PB...I'm no profiler but I've never heard her say much that I havenot thought of all on my own. "Course I have a family to be reckoned with...some of them would fill many of the slots on the wall of nuts and loose screws.

Terri may well be a socio/psychopath, which many on WS have been saying for weeks, and they can generally fool everyone except other socio/psychopaths. So Kaine could have been any man, he was just vulnerable if he was looking for help in caring for his child. It was her way in, without having to do the whole dating/seduction thing.

True but my thoughts go further back to that she targeted Desiree, befriended her and that way squirreled her way in with Kaine. She started off helping because she and D were such good friends, remember? She just uses people to get what she wants.

Kat
07-13-2010, 12:10 AM
Levi just wanted to thank you for again giving us a fantastic show and to thank you especially for talking about Kyron tonight.

:)

scandi
07-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Ask Pat why Kaine might not have recognized the psychopath in Terri?

Also find out if Pat belongs to WS. Yust Yokin' LOLOLOL

Etilema
07-13-2010, 12:27 AM
and how was LE able to get both cells? could they get a search warrant for them b/c Terri violated the RO?

did MC possibly volunteer his cell?

The documents said they had checked his "work" phone. So perhaps LE was able to get the info from his employer. But how did they know to ask for it? Someone had to have tipped them off, or else they have access to the Horman family phone records and saw his number there.

Levi
07-13-2010, 12:40 AM
Thank you Levi! Good show. Appreciate your using WS questions and info in real-time; makes it a truly interactive experience. :-)

Thank you, I apologize for stating the "abduction" took place after the RO, thanks for correcting me SleuthyGal, I appreciate it.

Levi
07-13-2010, 12:43 AM
Kat you bring up a very good point. Levi on tommorrows show will you ask Pat Brown, how appling pressure to a psychopath could work, if they have no emotional reaction to anything how is Le expecting this to work? Are they just going to hope something breaks, because if she is a psychopath all the embarrasment, all the pressure all the pleas by family are not going to work, because she doesn't care.REMIND me to ask... And I will. Excellent question.

Levi
07-13-2010, 12:45 AM
Also find out if Pat belongs to WS. Yust Yokin' LOLOLOL
Pat is a busy person! She is a dancer, an author, (she is on TV all the time) and she travels the country profiling cases.

But sometimes if I see something on WS interesting RE a case, I'll FWD it and pass it on to her. Especially some of the theories in these cases.

sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 12:50 AM
Levi,

Allegedly the R.O. had not yet been served on TMH at the time she went to get her daughter at the gym on 6/28. If the R.O. had not yet been served, then she wasn't in any violation of anything at that point in time.

I feel this needs to be pointed out because you said she received the R.O. and then went to get her daughter, which is not what the article(s) state.

TY for pointing that out, Sleuthy. That's one of the reasons I don't listen to that show anymore - too many erroneous statements not supported by facts.

sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 12:56 AM
PB says that she doesn't think that Terri cares to fight the RO, that she is like okay here

To PB - pfffttt!

PB has no idea what Houze has advised his client to do or not to do, since she was certailnly not present during any of those meetings. IMO, PB appears on programs to get her own name out there & to sell her books.

ThoughtFox
07-13-2010, 01:03 AM
Sociopaths are very clever at assimilating themselves and appearing "normal" when they choose to. That's why so many of them con and harm so many other people. Sociopaths can con anyone because they mimic human behavior and emotions so well, but they aren't really "human."

That point just can't be stated enough. This is why early in the case we saw many many posts here in which people said they hated to think the stepmother was involved in the disappearance and gave her the benefit of the doubt. And that's fine because it's not always the obvious person who is guilty.

But for people who have been around Websleuths for years, we've seen this same behavior over and over again, the lying, the cheating, the dragging outsiders into the family problems, you name it.

Sociopaths probably can't truly love anyone, not even their mates or their own biological children. It's all about them, and some of them are full-blown Narcissists who are selfish to the core and objectify everyone else. Stepchildren have no chance with someone like that because there's no connection at all. They are incapable of loving someone else's children as their own, and really they have no deep feelings and no remorse.

sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 01:14 AM
PB, thinks that Terri wanted the whole CSI attention drama but didn't think the finger would be pointed at her. Said Terri is a psychopath and you are born that way she didnt just snap.

TY for the play by play Butterfly!

I disagree with PB's claim.

Onset of symptoms of a personality disorder typically occurs during adolescence or young adulthood, not at birth.

If PB wants the public to believe that TH was "born that way" then, just for the sake of debate, to follow PB's illogical and false claim, IF TH was "born that way" - is she to blame for the way she was born?

It's a ridiculously false claim, not to mention a dead-end circular argument.

scandi
07-13-2010, 01:23 AM
Pat is a busy person! She is a dancer, an author, (she is on TV all the time) and she travels the country profiling cases.

But sometimes if I see something on WS interesting RE a case, I'll FWD it and pass it on to her. Especially some of the theories in these cases.
Thanks for the answer Levi and that is nifty neato about sharing the Sleuthin' with her at times. ;}

butterfly1978
07-13-2010, 01:27 AM
I would just like to say that Pat Brown is one of the top criminal profilers in the nation. She has assisted any many investigations written many books, and appeared on many news agencys and talk shows. She has the credintials, and she knows what she is talking about. She has seen more of these type cases than any of us here at WS and she didn't get to be one of the best by random luck, she has worked hard to make a name for herself. This is what she does and she is good at it.

I do not understand how some of these threads get turned around... THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED ON LEVI'S SHOW FROM EXPERTS TAKE ON THE CASE, NOT ABOUT THE GUEST!!!

sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 01:32 AM
IMO, if PB or any guest is going to offer their "expert" insight on any program, those insights need to be backed up by scientific documentation, not to mention bringing themselves up to date regarding the facts of any case they are discussing.

ETA: PB is a self-proclaimed top criminal profiler.

scandi
07-13-2010, 01:36 AM
That point just can't be stated enough. This is why early in the case we saw many many posts here in which people said they hated to think the stepmother was involved in the disappearance and gave her the benefit of the doubt. And that's fine because it's not always the obvious person who is guilty.

But for people who have been around Websleuths for years, we've seen this same behavior over and over again, the lying, the cheating, the dragging outsiders into the family problems, you name it.

Sociopaths probably can't truly love anyone, not even their mates or their own biological children. It's all about them, and some of them are full-blown Narcissists who are selfish to the core and objectify everyone else. Stepchildren have no chance with someone like that because there's no connection at all. They are incapable of loving someone else's children as their own, and really they have no deep feelings and no remorse.Hi ThoughtFox, Gosh it's great to see you :blowkiss:

So would one describe her as a sociopath with narcissistic tendencies?

I heard a TH on HLN say she wasn't psychotic or there would have been evidence of that before. Explosions of anger, weird behavior, acting out as one might say.

I just wonder if the planning of a MFH, approaching the killer to be and offering payment is too diabolical an act to simply say she is only a self centered sociopath.

The word itself - psychotic - sounds so over the top, but I wonder if they can be inward, without signs, yet when they decide how to really hurt someone in the worst way possible, it is on their brain night and day and they stealthfully go about their plan to the last dotted i.

eyes4crime
07-13-2010, 01:45 AM
TY for the play by play Butterfly!

I disagree with PB's claim.

Onset of symptoms of a personality disorder typically occurs during adolescence or young adulthood, not at birth.

If PB wants the public to believe that TH was "born that way" then, just for the sake of debate, to follow PB's illogical and false claim, IF TH was "born that way" - is she to blame for the way she was born?

It's a ridiculously false claim, not to mention a dead-end circular argument.

Have you read "Without Conscience" by Dr. Robert Hare? He has psychopathy on a sliding scale continuum. He's an outstanding researcher in the area of psychopathy. Dr. Hare feels that some babies are born without the capacity to process feelings like most. This leaves them cold, calculating, and with the ability to murder later on in life without flinching. I like his theory since he is backing it up with CAT scans and research of brain functioning. It's a viable theory. I've never heard from Pat Brown that she subscribed to his theory, and her profiling, in the past, didn't reflect it.

Always good to check out credentials of experts. Why not?

butterfly1978
07-13-2010, 01:50 AM
Have you read "Without Conscience" by Dr. Robert Hare? He has psychopathy on a sliding scale continuum. He's an outstanding researcher in the area of psychopathy. Dr. Hare feels that some babies are born without the capacity to process feelings like most. This leaves them cold, calculating, and with the ability to murder later on in life without flinching. I like his theory since he is backing it up with CAT scans and research of brain functioning. It's a viable theory. I've never heard from Pat Brown that she subscribed to his theory, and her profiling, in the past, didn't reflect it.

Always good to check out credentials of experts. Why not?

I have not investigated her credintials because I'm sure that every news agency has, but I do know that she has a masters in Criminal Justice and it takes many years to get a masters degree in anything.

Bathbuddys
07-13-2010, 01:53 AM
IMO, if PB or any guest is going to offer their "expert" insight on any program, those insights need to be backed up by scientific documentation, not to mention bringing themselves up to date regarding the facts of any case they are discussing.

ETA: PB is a self-proclaimed top criminal profiler.

when she is on a show whether it be a tv show or radio show she is acting as a consultant and using her expertise to answer questions in her own experience and opinion. I do not believe she is a scientist or claims to be one. She does this for a job and I really don't know why people are insulting her for doing her job? I think she is being very kind to do it.

eyes4crime
07-13-2010, 01:54 AM
I would just like to say that Pat Brown is one of the top criminal profilers in the nation. She has assisted any many investigations written many books, and appeared on many news agencys and talk shows. She has the credintials, and she knows what she is talking about. She has seen more of these type cases than any of us here at WS and she didn't get to be one of the best by random luck, she has worked hard to make a name for herself. This is what she does and she is good at it.

I do not understand how some of these threads get turned around... THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THINGS THAT WERE DISCUSSED ON LEVI'S SHOW FROM EXPERTS TAKE ON THE CASE, NOT ABOUT THE GUEST!!!

Nothing wrong with sleuthing or questioning experts who are putting forth an opinion - we do that with everyone else. The first thing we all do is google names, just look at Terri's defense attorney. Pat's not always right and I'm sure she would be the first to admit that. I think she is a real inspiration to women for what she's done with her life, but gosh, not everyone sees her as an expert. Not only do I check credentials out but I try to find out who is funding the research so I can know the bias. We are all different. moo mho

Not sure I like being told what to think. Bye everyone, see you later. :blowkiss:

sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 02:07 AM
Have you read "Without Conscience" by Dr. Robert Hare? He has psychopathy on a sliding scale continuum. He's an outstanding researcher in the area of psychopathy. Dr. Hare feels that some babies are born without the capacity to process feelings like most. This leaves them cold, calculating, and with the ability to murder later on in life without flinching. I like his theory since he is backing it up with CAT scans and research of brain functioning. It's a viable theory. I've never heard from Pat Brown that she subscribed to his theory, and her profiling, in the past, didn't reflect it.

Always good to check out credentials of experts. Why not?

Yes - I've heard of Dr. Hare and admire his work.

However, it all boils down to the age-old debate of nature versus nurture.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath?page=4

The forces that produce a psychopath are still obscure, an admission those looking for clear answers will find unsatisfying. Nevertheless, there are several rudimentary theories about the cause of psychopathy worth considering. At one end of the spectrum are theories that view psychopathy as largely the product of genetic or biological factors (nature), whereas theories at the other end posit that psychopathy results entirely from a faulty early social environment (nurture).

IMO, the jury is still out - no pun intended - in terms of any scientific conclusion.

Personally, I believe it's a complex mixture of nature AND nurture (biology & environment).

I don't believe they are mutually exclusive. To claim one or the other, or to deny one or the other as the sole reason, is to ignore other factors. We are all molded by our biology, our physiology, and our environments. MOO

sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 03:21 AM
Just want to add that the above snippet from the Psychology Today article is based on the work of Dr. Robert Hare. Even he is not yet convinced regarding the etiology of psychopathy.

Excerpted from Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us (Simon & Schuster) by Robert Hare, Ph.D.Copyright 1993.