View Full Version : 2010.07.12 Friend of Terri's describes her as a good mother
hollye
07-13-2010, 02:36 PM
http://www.katu.com/home/related/98286974.html
I found it cleared up a couple of questions that I had early on and also includes another boy's description, through his mother, of Kyron & TMH's interactions on the day of Kyron's disappearance.
ETA ~ I did not see this posted previously and have added it to the Current News.
winterrose
07-13-2010, 03:15 PM
That is also very interesting how the Sunday before the Friday disappearance there is all the photos with this boy bowling and playing games.She takes his photo in front of a science exhibit,almost like saying,see Kyron has friends,look at all he does with them.But this boy is the only one seen in photos with Kyron,except at school.I was under the impression these photos were spread out at different times,he was best friends with Kyron and they hung out.But,his mother said she let him go that Sunday and she's usually very protective,but let him go that day.
Also interesting to note that this is the child who also had a tree frog display, and one made much more child-like than was Kyron's nearly professional display.
hollye
07-13-2010, 03:30 PM
Also interesting to note that this is the child who also had a tree frog display, and one made much more child-like than was Kyron's nearly professional display.
I think that may just be due to the fact that the boy's mother is a relatively new single mother to 5 boys. Her husband was killed in a car accident about 9 months ago. She may not have had the time or energy to help him as much with his project.
I do find it kind of nice of TMH to have taken photos of the boy, since it doesn't appear that his mother was able to attend the science fair.
BetteDavisEyes
07-13-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
hollye
07-13-2010, 03:38 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
I noticed that as well.
eyes4crime
07-13-2010, 03:41 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! :heart: I bet this story won't get any ratings.
Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited. WTH
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.
What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home! So much media and nothing of importance to bring Kyron home.
Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her. moo
suzet
07-13-2010, 03:42 PM
I think that may just be due to the fact that the boy's mother is a relatively new single mother to 5 boys. Her husband was killed in a car accident about 9 months ago. She may not have had the time or energy to help him as much with his project.
I do find it kind of nice of TMH to have taken photos of the boy, since it doesn't appear that his mother was able to attend the science fair.
That is very sad for the mom. I wish her the best. And that poor boy. He must be going through an emotional time all the way around with losing his dad, then losing his friend.
Beatrice
07-13-2010, 03:43 PM
I wonder if there were awards for these Tree Frog exhibits?
Did they go to to the STUDENT exhibits
and not to the exhibits obviously done by parents.
(Terri's FaceBook comment that Kyran 'did it all'...)
I think that may just be due to the fact that the boy's mother is a relatively new single mother to 5 boys. Her husband was killed in a car accident about 9 months ago. She may not have had the time or energy to help him as much with his project.
I do find it kind of nice of TMH to have taken photos of the boy, since it doesn't appear that his mother was able to attend the science fair.
I wasn't mocking the child's attempts, or making a snide aside at his mother; in fact, it looked like what a child should produce. If there is any criticism, it is toward Kyron's adults who chose to take a child's school project and jack it into the stratosphere in terms of what should have been Kyron's accomplishment, not theirs.
Ms Suzanne
07-13-2010, 03:44 PM
I thought she was very sincere and honest.I think if we hear from many of the mothers and children we will find out she did not act bad towards Kyron.This lady said she asked her son how Kyron and his mother interacted that day and her son said they were happy and excited and good together.This lady is saying she just didn't see anything wrong with anything.I believe her.
Baldwin
07-13-2010, 03:45 PM
i think body language depends on an individual's personality in my opinion and sometimes you just dont know enough about a person. With that being said, giving that TH "attempted" to fill deseriee's role with kyron and kaine when she got sick, you would expect TH to be a caring, unconsicous person. Her deceptive movements seem weird and uneasy.
winterrose
07-13-2010, 03:45 PM
It could be a show of just disbelief in all she's reading and hearing and to think she's a protective mother and a child close to her son disappears right out of the same school.Her son was just with the family days before and she probably really doesn't know what to think,she's upset.How devastating for her son also,Kyron's his friend,so it's affected thier family,not to mention Kyron's class and the whole school.
mchris1024
07-13-2010, 03:47 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
Could she just be nervous??
I thought she seemed sincere, again here is someone WHO KNEW TH and doesn't have anything to win or lose, I don't hear her saying she volunteered with Kyron's bio parents she volunteered with Kyron's step mother and she seemed to be a loving mother....this over protective mother trusted her with her son and her son LOVED TH....hmmmmm
Baldwin
07-13-2010, 03:49 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! :heart: I bet this story won't get any ratings.
Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited. WTH
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.
What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home! So much media and nothing of importance to bring Kyron home.
Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her. moo
i love the fact that you pointed out that people are saying she has something to do with his disappearance because of her marraige. This fact doesnt mean much. It wasnt like she was a child abuser. Her problems in her relationship doesnt give much correlation to the situation. Who's to say Kaine didnt have "extra activities" going on. Its kinda one sided
citigirl
07-13-2010, 03:49 PM
I think Terri was very focused on "appearances." I am not at all surprised that there are people who thought she was "Mother of the Year." I think Terri put considerable energy into managing the way she appeared to others.
eyes4crime
07-13-2010, 03:50 PM
I think that may just be due to the fact that the boy's mother is a relatively new single mother to 5 boys. Her husband was killed in a car accident about 9 months ago. She may not have had the time or energy to help him as much with his project.
I do find it kind of nice of TMH to have taken photos of the boy, since it doesn't appear that his mother was able to attend the science fair.
How tragic. A single mom to five boys will be a great deal of work. It's not easy going on national TV and speaking. She's a very brave woman who is vulnerable right now due to her huge loss. I hope we here at WS will refrain from picking her apart and can appreciate what was said regarding her experience with Kyron and Terri. moo
Beatrice
07-13-2010, 03:50 PM
I think Terri was a good mother...Very obsessive-compulsive...perfectionist.
Very 'artsy crafty' with projects, Holloween, etc.
I think she was quite jealous of Desiree & wanted only Kaine & Baby K.
Mylou
07-13-2010, 03:50 PM
It could be a show of just disbelief in all she's reading and hearing and to think she's a protective mother and a child close to her son disappears right out of the same school.Her son was just with the family days before and she probably really doesn't know what to think,she's upset.How devastating for her son also,Kyron's his friend,so it's affected thier family,not to mention Kyron's class and the whole school.
I agree with you, as soon as I read your post I could visualize my Grandmother, she always did that when she was astonished by something that she was talking about.
Jules_SA
07-13-2010, 03:51 PM
My opinion regarding this sweet lady's hand gestures is simply that she may have been a little camera-shy. I do a very similar thing when I'm in the spotlight and if I could speak out from behind my hand, I would!! (Thus the ability to chat so easily from behind the screen of my PC) :)
I, personally, would take her at face value. WYSIWYG. And kudos to her for speaking out. I don't see her taking sides here. She simply stated the way it was.
Haeve
07-13-2010, 03:51 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
I'm pretty sure I do that when I'm feeling shy or unsure of myself. And I'm bad at lying so I don't do it much (except for social fibs, e.g. "How are you?"..."Fine.") My body language just says that I have issues, not "I'm helping someone with their alibi". :)
eyes4crime
07-13-2010, 03:53 PM
i love the fact that you pointed out that people are saying she has something to do with his disappearance because of her marraige. This fact doesnt mean much. It wasnt like she was a child abuser. Her problems in her relationship doesnt give much correlation to the situation. Who's to say Kaine didnt have "extra activities" going on. Its kinda one sided
So glad you loved it! Other than this video, I haven't heard anything about Terri outside her marriage...have you? TIA
Baldwin
07-13-2010, 03:55 PM
I thought she was very sincere and honest.I think if we hear from many of the mothers and children we will find out she did not act bad towards Kyron.This lady said she asked her son how Kyron and his mother interacted that day and her son said they were happy and excited and good together.This lady is saying she just didn't see anything wrong with anything.I believe her.
This reminded me of the Jaycee Dugard case where some people though that phil guarrido behavior was normal in a sense. Not saying that terry is a complete psycho but i do like that balance is trying to be presented in this case and its not like terry was a terrible stepmom. I dont believe that was the case because if it was, why would Kaine allow a "horrible" person around their child for so long. It wouldnt make sense to me.
Ms Suzanne
07-13-2010, 03:56 PM
I wonder if there were awards for these Tree Frog exhibits?
Did they go to to the STUDENT exhibits
and not to the exhibits obviously done by parents.
(Terri's FaceBook comment that Kyran 'did it all'...)
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Kyron did do most of it.His drawings are beautiful.He seems like a very talented little boy.
Emeralgem
07-13-2010, 03:57 PM
I think that may just be due to the fact that the boy's mother is a relatively new single mother to 5 boys. Her husband was killed in a car accident about 9 months ago. She may not have had the time or energy to help him as much with his project.
I do find it kind of nice of TMH to have taken photos of the boy, since it doesn't appear that his mother was able to attend the science fair.
Are you saying this mother is relatively new to the community or relatively new to raising five children on her own since the death of her spouse?
Also, I'm truly sorry to hear about her losing her husband. I cannot imagine how emotionally difficult it must be having to raise five children after the death of a spouse...JMO
Emma Peel
07-13-2010, 03:58 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
BDE - do you think that she is not being truthful about her past experience? Or is she just acutely aware that her words explaining her past beliefs about Terri & the happy healthy Horman family belie the latest smarmy news about Terri?
Blue Ridge
07-13-2010, 03:59 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
Just wanted to note, there are other reasons for people doing that too. I'm very shy talking to people I don't know well and tend to talk w/ my hands or keep pushing my hair back, that type thing. I'd probably be a REAL mess on a camera interview like that! Then I also used to work w/ a lady who hovers her hands around her mouth automatically (sort of like this friend on the video is doing) and her reason is simply because she has bad teeth in front and is self-conscious about them being seen.
Baldwin
07-13-2010, 03:59 PM
Could she just be nervous??
I thought she seemed sincere, again here is someone WHO KNEW TH and doesn't have anything to win or lose, I don't hear her saying she volunteered with Kyron's bio parents she volunteered with Kyron's step mother and she seemed to be a loving mother....this over protective mother trusted her with her son and her son LOVED TH....hmmmmm
or possibly a sense of guilt. It was stated that she didnt walk kyron directly in his classroom. maybe terry thought that if she would have, maybe this could have been prevented. And since she has these thoughts about herself, maybe she feels Desiree and Kaine feel the same way. It can be aruged on both sides.
human
07-13-2010, 03:59 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! :heart: I bet this story won't get any ratings.
Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited. WTH
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.
What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home! So much media and nothing of importance to bring Kyron home.
Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her. moo
She volunteered in the classroom a lot. She is married with 2 kids. The mother thought she was OK.
What I got out of it was that the mother was second guessing her ideas of who she is going to let her child go with from now on.
Baldwin
07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
So glad you loved it! Other than this video, I haven't heard anything about Terri outside her marriage...have you? TIA
I havent. All i hear is Nancy Grace bashing her and when someone tries to state something else that she wouldnt say, Nancy always cuts them off. You know how she is.
BetteDavisEyes
07-13-2010, 04:02 PM
...Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited...Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her.
Respectfully edited and BBM. It puzzles me, too, that Terri could have changed so much from the person that she appears to be when interacting with children. In photos from school field trips or working with students in various situations, Terri beams with enthusiasm and exhibits sincere interest in the children who are obviously engaged in their studies.
No doubt that many Skyline parents are wondering what on earth is going on here with this beloved and respected teacher/volunteer who frequently interacted with their children. This reminds me of a teacher at the elementary school that DD attended in the early '80s. Many years later, this man was in the local headlines having been charged with child molestation and pornography. DD hadn't had him as her teacher, but we knew that students and parents liked the guy. I was shocked and saddened to learn about his criminal behavior.
TopTop
07-13-2010, 04:03 PM
I don't see dishonesty. After all, she is not saying that Terri is not guilty, she's just saying she seemed like a good mom. She never said that there is no way TH is guilty or innocent. She's just talking about her impression.
She seemed like a nice, believable, shocked lady to me.
I prefer this that her coming out saying she never trusted her...yet she let her son be in her Company.
PoppyH
07-13-2010, 04:06 PM
Just watched a show last night on extreme forensic, bout a elementary school principal, loved by all his students etc, had 3 kids and a wife...till he murdered them all, one was a newborn apparently he was a good father also...you just never know
Emma Peel
07-13-2010, 04:07 PM
I think that may just be due to the fact that the boy's mother is a relatively new single mother to 5 boys. Her husband was killed in a car accident about 9 months ago. She may not have had the time or energy to help him as much with his project.
I do find it kind of nice of TMH to have taken photos of the boy, since it doesn't appear that his mother was able to attend the science fair.
I'm just wondering if we did not get the whole report in this clip - I don't see the part Kyron's friend's mom being widowed 9 months ago through a car accident in the video link. Was there more to the story in another article?
liz b.
07-13-2010, 04:14 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
Ummm... I'm Italian American. My whole clan uses hands to gesticulate when speaking.Doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on our truthfulness.
All JMO
BetteDavisEyes
07-13-2010, 04:14 PM
BDE - do you think that she is not being truthful about her past experience? Or is she just acutely aware that her words explaining her past beliefs about Terri & the happy healthy Horman family belie the latest smarmy news about Terri?
Watched the video a second time. Ms. Holm doesn't appear to be nervous or uncomfortable during the interview, but I think she is feeling self-doubt for having trusted this person. She holds her hands together, almost prayerfully, as if she is hoping that she didn't make a huge mistake by allowing her son to go bowling with Terri. Holm is questioning her judgment in this situation given everything that is swirling around in this ongoing saga. My take on it, fwiw.
TxLady2
07-13-2010, 04:15 PM
It's just hand gestures! I "talk" with my hands as well, it's a family trait. I guess if I were on t.v., everyone would say I was lying with every sentence... no telling what my hands are going to do... I'm not even conscious of it most of the time.
This lady just seemed shocked at all this focus on Terri as the suspect.
gliving
07-13-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm just wondering if we did not get the whole report in this clip - I don't see the part Kyron's friend's mom being widowed 9 months ago through a car accident in the video link. Was there more to the story in another article?
It was in the Skyline Eagles Nest newsletter. I'd link, but it contains the names of children.
Curious Me
07-13-2010, 04:18 PM
Thank You for posting. Watched it twice. In fact, like many of you, I've been waiting to hear from any of TMH's friends. IMO, this mother of Kyron's classmate seems very sincere. I don't think she has any ulterior motive or agenda for speaking up. (the body language seems harmless in this instance)
Of course, if a bunch of people start talking and raving about what a great mom and teacher and friend TMH is it will confuse me even more. I get a cold chill just imagining maybe TMH really didn't have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, maybe she geniuely loved children. This lady's friend loved TMH. I am confiused. How could she be so loving, and yet possibly taken Kyron from the SF and put him in harm's way? Why is her own husband pointing the finger at her?
It's sad looking at all these happy pictures, and trying to fit a murder of a child into it. I want Kyron to come home. I want Kyron to be alive and happy. Is there any hope?
Calliope
07-13-2010, 04:20 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
IMO she's just nervous. I don't think she's lying.
Amster
07-13-2010, 04:25 PM
This nice lady only knew Terri through the school volunteering stuff.....not the Terri who tries to hire hit men and engages in sexting and porn pics of herself with men. I bet she's horrified that she allowed her son to go anywhere near such a person.....I feel bad for her and for her son.
Emma Peel
07-13-2010, 04:25 PM
Thank You for posting. Watched it twice. In fact, like many of you, I've been waiting to hear from any of TMH's friends. IMO, this mother of Kyron's classmate seems very sincere. I don't think she has any ulterior motive or agenda for speaking up. (the body language seems harmless in this instance)
Of course, if a bunch of people start talking and raving about what a great mom and teacher and friend TMH is it will confuse me even more. I get a cold chill just imagining maybe TMH really didn't have anything to do with Kyron's disappearance, maybe she geniuely loved children. This lady's friend loved TMH. I am confiused. How could she be so loving, and yet possibly taken Kyron from the SF and put him in harm's way? Why is her own husband pointing the finger at her?
It's sad looking at all these happy pictures, and trying to fit a murder of a child into it. I want Kyron to come home. I want Kyron to be alive and happy. Is there any hope?
It is very sad.
Yet to have testimony like this further supports the idea that whatever was going on with Terri, she was adept at covering. I still have hopes that Kyron actually did experience many happy childhood days under Terri's care. And that is why Kaine & Desiree believed him to be just fine.
tiredblondy
07-13-2010, 04:27 PM
I think Terri was very focused on "appearances." I am not at all surprised that there are people who thought she was "Mother of the Year." I think Terri put considerable energy into managing the way she appeared to others.
I so agree. I think Terri picked people based on her ability to fool/manipulate them. Because of an experience my children and I had with my ex's wife I can spot them a mile away now, very transparent to me.
Ms Suzanne
07-13-2010, 04:29 PM
I think Terri's problem was with Kaine.Not Kyron.I don't hear anything bad about her coming from anyone else.I feel it's coming from Kaine.I don't think she hurt Kyron.I'm praying she didn't.I pray they find this sweet little boy soon.
DairyGirl
07-13-2010, 04:33 PM
I rather expect people to come out and say what a good mother Terri is. I hope so because that was my first impression when I looked at her Facebook the first night Kyron went missing. I would be surprised if anyone had any inkling that Terri could do anything like this. Kind of like what people said about KC. That doesn't convince me of her innocence it just makes it clear that she was good at putting on good impressions. It's too bad that people who are capable of harming children don't have a sign on their face that would give a warning. How many people were convicted of crimes that had friends and family that didn't think them capable of doing it?
Baldwin
07-13-2010, 04:34 PM
I think Terri's problem was with Kaine.Not Kyron.I don't hear anything bad coming from anyone else.I feel it's coming from Kaine.I don't think she hurt Kyron.I'm praying she didn't.I pray they find this sweet little boy soon.
with kiane placing all this guilt, it makes you wonder why didnt he take actions sooner to protect his children is it was that much of a threat.
Donjeta
07-13-2010, 04:37 PM
I just thought there was a slight undertone of OMG I let my child go bowling with her and she might have done something horrible.
I don't think it would be unusual for people volunteering at the same school and parents of classmates etc. to have a good opinion of each other. Most people would try to keep the good side of their face forward in such situations, and if there is any iffy behavior it occurs more often in more private situations. E.g. she wouldn't have been having any spousal arguments with Terri.
GrainneDhu
07-13-2010, 04:37 PM
That is also very interesting how the Sunday before the Friday disappearance there is all the photos with this boy bowling and playing games.She takes his photo in front of a science exhibit,almost like saying,see Kyron has friends,look at all he does with them.But this boy is the only one seen in photos with Kyron,except at school.I was under the impression these photos were spread out at different times,he was best friends with Kyron and they hung out.But,his mother said she let him go that Sunday and she's usually very protective,but let him go that day.
Could it be that the family tried not to release any photos of Kyron that had other minors in them? I'd think there would be issues of possibly endangering other children, offending parents who hadn't given permission, etc.
In other words, lack of publicly released photos of Kyron with other children in them doesn't necessarily mean such photos don't exist.
Heck, given the way things get confused in the media, the family may have been afraid that if they released a photo of Kyron with another child in it, a certain percentage would think the other child was the missing one!
Curious Me
07-13-2010, 04:39 PM
The only thing I really want to know is if she loved and cared deeply for Kyron. Is there any chance she did love Kyron, and didn't harm him? This friend's interview does make me wonder about that more.
People change, maybe something hardened TMH so much that she changed into someone that could harm a little boy. It's true, every single day I watch crime stories that show a loving family member turning and changing into a person that shoots their whole family. Snapping. Is that what happened to TMH? Or was she a narcissistic devious liar all along that could plan and execute a murder of a child she loved, then move on to a new affair?
I do know that if I were that friend now, I'm sure I'd be flipping out that I let my son go off with a lady accused of a bad crime against a child, within less than a week of letting my son go with her. Whoa!
scandi
07-13-2010, 04:41 PM
I wasn't mocking the child's attempts, or making a snide aside at his mother; in fact, it looked like what a child should produce. If there is any criticism, it is toward Kyron's adults who chose to take a child's school project and jack it into the stratosphere in terms of what should have been Kyron's accomplishment, not theirs.
Oh, I wonder if that says something about the family dynamics that caused great jealousy on her part towards Kyron and additional hurt by Kaine towards her.
It looks to me like allot if not most of that display was engineered by Kaine. He evidently spent allot of time with Kyron on it and possibly this is just a snap shot of how he always doted on him. That division of affection, shown by her doting on the baby with all the photos and Kyron being the apple of his dad's eye could have worked into a bad home situation.
Add to that she learned he was having an affair and possibly spending less time at home with her - snap. That was just it and she made some decisions to get back at him. Just sayin'
GrainneDhu
07-13-2010, 04:42 PM
i think body language depends on an individual's personality in my opinion and sometimes you just dont know enough about a person. With that being said, giving that TH "attempted" to fill deseriee's role with kyron and kaine when she got sick, you would expect TH to be a caring, unconsicous person. Her deceptive movements seem weird and uneasy.
My personal impression (which is often wrong, so take it for what it is worth) is that she seemed uncertain. I thought she believed in what she was saying but has started to question herself due to the things that have come out in the media.
And maybe, a little bit, trying to convince herself that she wasn't misled.
MD MOMMY
07-13-2010, 04:44 PM
It seemed to me that she was kind of like "crap, I let my son go with them days before this happened". She is simply stating her views on how TH acted, what she saw. Look at what most of KC's friends said about her mothering.
gitana1
07-13-2010, 04:44 PM
with kiane placing all this guilt, it makes you wonder why didnt he take actions sooner to protect his children is it was that much of a threat.
My sense is that what seemed benign before has become incomprehensible and horrific now. How would you feel if you found out the spouse you loved was likely involved in the disappearance of your child and in a plot to kill you? I would be sick, enraged, horrified. If LE told me that there was a proof of this and that I needed to protect myself and my family, I would do so in a heartbeat. I think that is exactly what Kaine is doing - following the advice of LE and trying to protect his loved ones and himself from the person he never thought could harm them.
When I look at the presser where TH is nestled in Kaine's arms or putting her head on the mother's shoulders, it makes me sick. It would make me feel so dirty and repulsed to know that the person most likely responsible for the disappearance of my child was all over me and that I trusted that person and let them touch me. Yuck.
oceanblueeyes
07-13-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't see dishonesty. After all, she is not saying that Terri is not guilty, she's just saying she seemed like a good mom. She never said that there is no way TH is guilty or innocent. She's just talking about her impression.
She seemed like a nice, believable, shocked lady to me.
I prefer this that her coming out saying she never trusted her...yet she let her son be in her Company.
I thought this lady was very honest. I do believe her when she said she thinks Terri is a good mother. I wish more had the courage to step forward and give their opinions on the Terri they knew/know but with the media so much against Terri some may be fearful to do so thinking they will suffer backlash themselves.
To this day I have never seen anyone say that Terri was an abusive mother to Kyron before his disappearance. Not even Kaine.
I also agree with this lady when she said if the person is guilty then they deserve all of this but if they are not it will destroy them (paraphrasing).
IMO
Cher352
07-13-2010, 04:52 PM
Ummm... I'm Italian American. My whole clan uses hands to gesticulate when speaking.Doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on our truthfulness.
All JMO
I'm not Italian but I definitely talk with my hands too. Friends always are telling me that if they tied my hands behind my back that I wouldn't be able to talk....LOL!
I find the lady very truthful, in fact one of the most candid of any I have seen in this case. Wish we knew more of what her son had to say...like when he saw Kryon last and who he was with? Of course I am sure LE knows everything he had to say.
sorrell skye
07-13-2010, 05:01 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
Maybe she ate pesto for lunch & hadn't had a chance to brush/floss her teeth & was thinking "Have I got green specs in my teeth? Oh dear, I'm on national TV - have I got green specs in my teeth? I should've checked my teeth before the interview..."
J/K Kudos to this woman for coming out & giving another side to the story. It's about time someone did.
hollye
07-13-2010, 05:03 PM
Are you saying this mother is relatively new to the community or relatively new to raising five children on her own since the death of her spouse?
Also, I'm truly sorry to hear about her losing her husband. I cannot imagine how emotionally difficult it must be having to raise five children after the death of a spouse...JMO
I meant relatively new to being single mother to 5 boys and still going through the grieving process. I think from the interview that she didn't appear real comfortable in front of the camera.
I appreciate that TMH took the time to take pictures of the boy. I'm sure his mother appreciates it, thoug I'm not sure I would be appreciative of her posting them on FB, seemingly without the mom's knowledge, since they don't appear to be friends on FB.
Emeralgem
07-13-2010, 05:07 PM
Just wondering If she didn't use this child to be even less suspicious to LE IF she was planning to harm Kyron.. Also, wondering how many other playmates have been invited over for a play day or an outing with Kyron on a regular basis...JMO
Also, I would be really interested in hearing from some other couples the Horman's may have socialized with on regular basis.. Wonder IF there are any other couples who also have children they may have interacted and socialized with on weekends.....JMO
Calliope
07-13-2010, 05:10 PM
I thought this lady was very honest. I do believe her when she said she thinks Terri is a good mother. I wish more had the courage to step forward and give their opinions on the Terri they knew/know but with the media so much against Terri some may be fearful to do so thinking they will suffer backlash themselves.
<snip>
Or get kicked off the 'team'.
adh74
07-13-2010, 05:17 PM
I think Terri was very focused on "appearances." I am not at all surprised that there are people who thought she was "Mother of the Year." I think Terri put considerable energy into managing the way she appeared to others.
My mom was like this. In the public eye, she was Mother of the Year, PTA President, volunteered for multiple non-profit community organizations, etc. My friends all loved her...she was the "cool mom". But at home, in private, she was a horribly physically and emotionally abusive narcissist.
Curious Me
07-13-2010, 05:18 PM
Remembering how KC's friends said she seemed like a good mother, too. Later, we were able to see thru constant cell pings, computer entries, and club appearances that she was a negligent mother when no one was looking. I have to remind myself that this friend's interview is just an acquaintance's take of the TMH she experienced. It really doesn't tell me if TMH had quietly had a break from reality and was planning some ugly revenge involving Kyron.
I will say this - just the Sunday before Kyron went missing TMH was acting normal enough to gain this friend's mother's confidence. It tells me the whatever state TMH was in, she wasn't acting that crazy or forgetful five days before Kyron's disappearance, but she hasn't been able to stay in character since then. Why?
Donjeta
07-13-2010, 05:30 PM
Regarding her saying they seemed excited and happy at the science fair...
If it's an accurate description it makes it somewhat less likely that she was irritable, on edge and just snapped with bad results. Maybe it was a bit unlikely anyway because how do you snap and hurt a child at a crowded school and get rid of him without anybody noticing if you didn't have a plan?
If Terri did something premeditated it would make sense for her to try and act happy and normal.
wondering1
07-13-2010, 06:17 PM
My mom was like this. In the public eye, she was Mother of the Year, PTA President, volunteered for multiple non-profit community organizations, etc. My friends all loved her...she was the "cool mom". But at home, in private, she was a horribly physically and emotionally abusive narcissist.
I believe that my ex is a sociopath and he has the EXACT same m.o. --Father of the Year, baseball/football/whatever coach, volunteers with multiple charities always involving children (like childrens' hospitals, shoe programs, etc.) If you met him you'd never guess that he had multiple criminal assualt and dv charges and/or convictions on his record, and multiple RO's in place over the course of many years (many of which don't even involve me). Also totally obsessed with porn and internet *dating* -- including while he's in a relationship. He's in one now and I know for a fact he's still doing the internet thing.
Here's an extreme example of how deceptive/manipulative these people can be. He once unexpectely confronted me in front of a public building and was trying to get my car keys out of my hand. He was practically breaking my fingers (I mean it was close, literally) and saying all kinds of menacing things to me inches from my face. Then a woman walked out of the door of the building less than 5 feet away from us. He immdiately drew me close to him and gave me a huge somewhat passionate kiss :::hurl::: The woman said with a big smile "hey, you two, get a room." I wanted to die. I knew if he could do that, he could do anything. And he did, including holding a loaded gun to my head and much more.
Only my dearest friends who have gotten a glimpse of my reality can even believe it. Most people don't really believe it when they hear it from me (not that I mention it much in real life.) He's just too *nice* of a guy and too *perfect* of a Dad to really be that evil. Heck, I don't blame them. I fell for it, too, when I only knew him superficially.
Sorry for the TMPI, but I think most people who haven't been involved with a person like this, can't really believe that it's possible. This woman is probably in that category. Once you meet one of these people in real life and are in a position to come to know who they *really* are, you are NEVER the same. If TH is a sociopath, she is capable of anything.
MsFacetious
07-13-2010, 06:27 PM
I thought she was very sincere and honest.I think if we hear from many of the mothers and children we will find out she did not act bad towards Kyron.This lady said she asked her son how Kyron and his mother interacted that day and her son said they were happy and excited and good together.This lady is saying she just didn't see anything wrong with anything.I believe her.
BBM
Just the ones I remember....
Susan Smith - 2 children - drowning
Andrew Yates - 5 children - drowning
Julia Murray - 2 children, 1 survived - drowning
Debra Jeter - 2 children, 1 survived - stabbing
La'Tonya Dixon - 2 children, 1 survived - shooting
Casey Anthony - 1 child allegedly
All had people come out and say, she was a good mother, I don't know how this could happen.... I never would have imagined....
The abusive parents who kill their children are not so shocking.
It is these cases where it comes out of nowhere that we all struggle so much to understand.
I cannot explain why or how... but even if Terri rocked Kyron to sleep every single night and went to every school function...She still could join the above list one day.
More than 200 women kill their children each year. More of them here:
http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/mother_killers.htm
Quiche
07-13-2010, 06:36 PM
Regarding the hand gestures in this interview-- they reminded me of someone who was relating something mildly frightening, like almost stepping on a snake, ...and a mouse ran over my shoe... that type of thing. It's as though she's scared of the implications of having trusted TMH, but also chagrined that nothing bad happened to her child.
She's conflicted, imo.
evelyn24
07-13-2010, 06:44 PM
I think Terri was very focused on "appearances." I am not at all surprised that there are people who thought she was "Mother of the Year." I think Terri put considerable energy into managing the way she appeared to others.
Yes, absolutely.
BOZGAL
07-13-2010, 06:50 PM
I also am pleased to see someone step out and speak in behalf of TH.
I do believe this woman was telling the truth.
That being said though.
I would expect her son to say Kyron and KH were excited at the SF. TH did take a picture of him and he is friends with Kyron.
Also what goes on behind closed doors is so many times the exact opposite of what someone lets others see.
wondering1's post was right on about this.
Sorry you had to endure this.
jmho
evelyn24
07-13-2010, 06:51 PM
Oh, I wonder if that says something about the family dynamics that caused great jealousy on her part towards Kyron and additional hurt by Kaine towards her.
It looks to me like allot if not most of that display was engineered by Kaine. He evidently spent allot of time with Kyron on it and possibly this is just a snap shot of how he always doted on him. That division of affection, shown by her doting on the baby with all the photos and Kyron being the apple of his dad's eye could have worked into a bad home situation.
Add to that she learned he was having an affair and possibly spending less time at home with her - snap. That was just it and she made some decisions to get back at him. Just sayin'
What affair? Kaine denied he was cheating.
yosande
07-13-2010, 06:56 PM
Just wondering If she didn't use this child to be even less suspicious to LE IF she was planning to harm Kyron.. Also, wondering how many other playmates have been invited over for a play day or an outing with Kyron on a regular basis...JMO
Also, I would be really interested in hearing from some other couples the Horman's may have socialized with on regular basis.. Wonder IF there are any other couples who also have children they may have interacted and socialized with on weekends.....JMO
I agree, if TH is involved, then imo, she planned it, and this outing might be part of the plan.
I don't have a facebook account so I never got to see her photos, and whatnot. :(
More information on activities of daily living would be nice.
I do find it disturbing that KH spoke of Kyron staying in his room in the am until summoned and neither parent seemed to have a problem with that.
He must have a really nice room, but it says to me he preferred to be alone than with the family. That is unusual imo, most children prefer to be with their families/friends all the time.
He appears in the pics to be a well adjusted child, not afraid of the camera, not too shy, and seemingly happy. moo
We know he played soccer. This is an after school program held at the school.
This is the first person who makes the statement that a friend was out with Kyron and family, or SM at least.
That tight knit a community, school wise, seems like we'd be seeing more of other families, or would have before the end of June. jmo oc..
SuziQ
07-13-2010, 07:09 PM
I thought she was very sincere and honest.I think if we hear from many of the mothers and children we will find out she did not act bad towards Kyron.This lady said she asked her son how Kyron and his mother interacted that day and her son said they were happy and excited and good together.This lady is saying she just didn't see anything wrong with anything.I believe her.
I think this lady was sincere in that she thinks she knows TH. People like TH don't look like or act like monsters in front of others. But when know one is looking they try to hire hit men and sext their husbands friend from High School and tell people to lie to their attorney's.
Susan Smith didn't openly act bad towards her children either. Until she s(trapped) her two little boys into their carseats and let them roll into a watery grave.
human
07-13-2010, 07:11 PM
If TH did this, I thought to myself with all outward appearances of TH as mother of the year, how in the heck can you decide who your kids are going to go places with when they are invited.
I am probably imposing my views on the interviewed mother, but that was what came across to me from her interview. My children are grown up, but I would have thought a person like Terri would be just fine.
My whole world would have been turned around if I had a situation with a mother like Terri being presented. Who do you trust? Does your child live in a cocoon now?
SuziQ
07-13-2010, 07:13 PM
My opinion regarding this sweet lady's hand gestures is simply that she may have been a little camera-shy. I do a very similar thing when I'm in the spotlight and if I could speak out from behind my hand, I would!! (Thus the ability to chat so easily from behind the screen of my PC) :)
I, personally, would take her at face value. WYSIWYG. And kudos to her for speaking out. I don't see her taking sides here. She simply stated the way it was.
ITA. I don't think it was a pro Terri interview per say, I think it was someone stating, Hey, she seemed so normal I let my kid go places with her. I bet this friend is scratching her head wondering about TH being able to keep this other side hidden so well. The poor lady seemed torn and a bit befuddled over it all.
yosande
07-13-2010, 07:17 PM
Remembering how KC's friends said she seemed like a good mother, too. Later, we were able to see thru constant cell pings, computer entries, and club appearances that she was a negligent mother when no one was looking. I have to remind myself that this friend's interview is just an acquaintance's take of the TMH she experienced. It really doesn't tell me if TMH had quietly had a break from reality and was planning some ugly revenge involving Kyron.
I will say this - just the Sunday before Kyron went missing TMH was acting normal enough to gain this friend's mother's confidence. It tells me the whatever state TMH was in, she wasn't acting that crazy or forgetful five days before Kyron's disappearance, but she hasn't been able to stay in character since then. Why?
Imo, she was able to stay in character. KH didn't leave until LE brought evidence that she was not who he thought she was.
As soon as he discovered it, he took his daughter and left, while she said to a reporter that everything is good.
DY and TY were staying in the house with them for a little while. That must have been hard, b/c TH knew DY suspected her from the onset.
Also, planning is one thing, acting is quite another.
A plan is a thought, a fantasy even, but once the act is done, one usually discovers the mistake they made, or mistakes made due to lack of planning, etc.
If, if she committed a crime concerning Kyron, she likely didn't expect D and TY to come live in their home. She likely didn't think about the aftermath being what has happened. She likely planned for people to think a stranger came in and took him. The school being open to the public that day, the whole purpose of it being "that" day, again, if she is guilty only.
Personally, I'm not there yet.
jmo and all that.
suzet
07-13-2010, 07:22 PM
with kiane placing all this guilt, it makes you wonder why didnt he take actions sooner to protect his children is it was that much of a threat.
Probably because Terri was the great pretender. Kaine most likely had faith in his marriage and it would have never crossed his mind that his wife was capable of walking out the door one morning and murdering his son, imo, if she is guilty.
I applaud his efforts now. He is doing everything in his power to protect his daughter from the unstable environment Terri has presumably created through her actions. Whoever Kaine's lawyer is, he/she is doing a great job, imo.
suzet
07-13-2010, 07:27 PM
*snipped*
I appreciate that TMH took the time to take pictures of the boy. I'm sure his mother appreciates it, thoug I'm not sure I would be appreciative of her posting them on FB, seemingly without the mom's knowledge, since they don't appear to be friends on FB.
I wondered if Terri had this mom's permission to post the mom's son's Science Fair photo on Terri's FB. I know I would be hoppin' mad if someone posted my child's photo on FB or anywhere on the net without my consent, especially in the midst of this criminal investigation.
CaringCitizen
07-13-2010, 07:30 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! ...Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited.
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.....What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home!
...Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her...
I thought she was very sincere and honest.I think if we hear from many of the mothers and children we will find out she did not act bad towards Kyron.This lady said she asked her son how Kyron and his mother interacted that day and her son said they were happy and excited and good together.This lady is saying she just didn't see anything wrong with anything.I believe her.
Hi Eyes & Suzanne - I see both of you as loving people who want to always see the best in someone. This a fabulous trait and one that I share with you. But there are times when we come across people and circumstances in life that force us to remember that not everyone can 'keep it together'; we have a lot of crime in this world and that means a lot of people are committing it.
They all have loved ones who care - but it doesn't make them any less harmful to society. :(
Your points about Terri having shreds of good and being viewed positively by her friend on the video, are valid to the core. Your belief that the friend on the video is sincere and whose son loved Terri - is spot on. She did think that and she still does. This is normal. We would expect to find good things in people, no matter what they have done. And that includes Terri Horman. I am sure she brought joy to some people's lives, some of the time. Don't most all of us do that? One would hope.
In nearly every criminal case since time immemorial, the perpetrators have people supporting them . In some cases, fervent supporters and a lot of them. It can take years before some of those people change their minds. It can take insurmountable evidence, for some.
Current examples of this include Casey Anthony & Joran Van der Sloot. While these are famous top of the mind cases, there are thousands every day with the same result - where loving people simply cannot see their child or partner or friend as a murderer. We studiers of true crime should expect in every criminal case that we will hear from people who could never fathom their 'someone' could do anything so horrible, to anyone. This is normal. With some exceptions, those loved ones and supporters believe it with all their heart and are being honest about it. That's the only part of the person they ever saw - the wonderful, good side.
Sometimes the support and belief can be so strong for a criminal, that many perpetrators stay married, get married in prison, have parents who believe in them to the point of mortgaging their lives for an appeal; they have siblings, exes, children, and on down the line who cannot bring themselves to see the truth at first. Sure, many of these fall off the fence over time, but in the end, it is still very common to see support from some, forevermore. The number dwindles across the course of the case but still, it is rare for all of them to find the courage to accept it.
This 'natural and expected support model' happens in every case for a reason:
People are not single-faceted beings; each of us has different roles we play (sister, brother, mother, father, aunt, grandmother, husband, wife, significant other, nephew, boss, old high school friend, co-worker, teacher) and we have people in our lives who play these same roles for us. We can even excel to the max on many of these roles and miserably fail in another. We are fluid beings over time too, we can change dramatically based on circumstances. Often this is positive and equates to growth and maturity in us as we age and learn and synthesize. But sometimes people unravel. And sometimes they just snap. The intertwining circumstances of a certain area of someone's life can go haywire for them and it mixes and moans and adjusts in just a certain way that it ends up spelling disaster.
In a case like this where no one saw it coming (perhaps not even Terri herself), it is natural to want to dig for all the good we can find in her, but in the end, our advocacy must be for those who suffer at the expense of others - and that means having the courage to look at the upsetting facts too, and reason accordingly.
Kyron's step-mother is involved in his disappearance. No matter how fond of her some people still might be.
...
ThoughtFox
07-13-2010, 07:41 PM
This reminded me of the Jaycee Dugard case where some people though that phil guarrido behavior was normal in a sense. Not saying that terry is a complete psycho but i do like that balance is trying to be presented in this case and its not like terry was a terrible stepmom. I dont believe that was the case because if it was, why would Kaine allow a "horrible" person around their child for so long. It wouldnt make sense to me.
Because some people are good liars, that's all it is. There wouldn't be any domestic crime if people couldn't fool their friends and family members into trusting them.
Even if Kaine saw something strange, the first reaction is usually denial, especially where children are concerned. If you read some of the high-profile cases here, no family member ever wants to believe that someone could be a bad mother or father, or even want to hurt a spouse.
One example: In the Peterson case, even with all the evidence stacked against Scott Peterson that came out over months and months, his brother and mother and father still took the stand in his defense, even knowing that he killed a pregnant woman and a baby. Laci never saw her own death coming from the father of her unborn child either. She and her family trusted him, but he was a chronic liar.
As far as what this poor woman said about TH, good for her. That's her perception. Whether it matches the reality when all is said and done is another thing entirely.
Ms Suzanne
07-13-2010, 07:45 PM
Hi Eyes & Suzanne - I see both of you as loving people who want to always see the best in someone. This a fabulous trait and one that I share with you. But there are times when we come across people and circumstances in life that force us to remember that not everyone can 'keep it together'; we have a lot of crime in this world and that means a lot of people are committing it.
They all have loved ones who care - but it doesn't make them any less harmful to society. :(
Your points about Terri having shreds of good and being viewed positively by her friend on the video, are valid to the core. Your belief that the friend on the video is sincere and whose son loved Terri - is spot on. She did think that and she still does. This is normal. We would expect to find good things in people, no matter what they have done. And that includes Terri Horman. I am sure she brought joy to some people's lives, some of the time. Don't most all of us do that? One would hope.
In nearly every criminal case since time immemorial, the perpetrators have people supporting them . In some cases, fervent supporters and a lot of them. It can take years before some of those people change their minds. It can take insurmountable evidence, for some.
Current examples of this include Casey Anthony & Joran Van der Sloot. While these are famous top of the mind cases, there are thousands every day with the same result - where loving people simply cannot see their child or partner or friend as a murderer. We studiers of true crime should expect in every criminal case that we will hear from people who could never fathom their 'someone' could do anything so horrible, to anyone. This is normal. With some exceptions, those loved ones and supporters believe it with all their heart and are being honest about it. That's the only part of the person they ever saw - the wonderful, good side.
Sometimes the support and belief can be so strong for a criminal, that many perpetrators stay married, get married in prison, have parents who believe in them to the point of mortgaging their lives for an appeal; they have siblings, exes, children, and on down the line who cannot bring themselves to see the truth at first. Sure, many of these fall off the fence over time, but in the end, it is still very common to see support from some, forevermore. The number dwindles across the course of the case but still, it is rare for all of them to find the courage to accept it.
This 'natural and expected support model' happens in every case for a reason:
People are not single-faceted beings; each of us has different roles we play (sister, brother, mother, father, aunt, grandmother, husband, wife, significant other, nephew, boss, old high school friend, co-worker, teacher) and we have people in our lives who play these same roles for us. We can even excel to the max on many of these roles and miserably fail in another. We are fluid beings over time too, we can change dramatically based on circumstances. Often this is positive and equates to growth and maturity in us as we age and learn and synthesize. But sometimes people unravel. And sometimes they just snap. The intertwining circumstances of a certain area of someone's life can go haywire for them and it mixes and moans and adjusts in just a certain way that it ends up spelling disaster.
In a case like this where no one saw it coming (perhaps not even Terri herself), it is natural to want to dig for all the good we can find in her, but in the end, our advocacy must be for those who suffer at the expense of others - and that means having the courage to look at the upsetting facts too, and reason accordingly.
Kyron's step-mother is involved in his disappearance. No matter how fond of her some people still might be.
...
Hi CaringCitizen.Thanks for sharing.
Quote
Kyron's step-mother is involved in his disappearance. No matter how fond of her some people still might be.
LE has not stated this that Kyrons step mom is involved.They said No one has been ruled out and everyone is a suspect.I think we should just wait this out and see what happens.
x_files
07-13-2010, 07:47 PM
[QUOTE=BetteDavisEyes;5400256]I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo[/QUOTE
I pick up, she trusted her but know she is very worried and apprehensive, hindsight 20/20.
liz b.
07-13-2010, 08:48 PM
It was in a major link, saying about 6 mos before she had learned Kaine was having an affair and how it hurt her so. That is when she talked to the LS about the MFH plot.
IMO, his affair must have heated up a bit and I think could have possibly been the straw that broke her back and she made that diabolical decision to have him killed. Just speculation mind you but it would upset any wife. Add in a sociopathic disorder and you got trouble a brewin'. xox
TH was diagnosed with a sociopathic disorder ? An actual verified psychiatric condition ? I must have missed this ; is there a link ? TIA.
All JMO
suzet
07-13-2010, 09:08 PM
It was in a major link, saying about 6 mos before she had learned Kaine was having an affair and how it hurt her so. That is when she talked to the LS about the MFH plot.
IMO, his affair must have heated up a bit and I think could have possibly been the straw that broke her back and she made that diabolical decision to have him killed. Just speculation mind you but it would upset any wife. Add in a sociopathic disorder and you got trouble a brewin'. xox
You mean all we have on this alleged affair is Terri's word for it? Sorry, I don't believe her any more than I believe Casey A. Sounds to me like Terri used the old "he's having an affair" excuse to have him bumped off. I don't believe a word she says and until we have proof like, oh, let's say Kaine sending naked photos of himself or sexting another woman or visiting another woman, for example, I don't believe he was having an affair. It is a Terri fairy tale, imo. Even if he was, though, it seems rather minor compared to plotting to have your spouse murdered or killing your step son, imo, if she is guilty. There is no excuse in this world that justifies such heinous acts.
MD MOMMY
07-13-2010, 09:15 PM
If TH did this, I thought to myself with all outward appearances of TH as mother of the year, how in the heck can you decide who your kids are going to go places with when they are invited.
I am probably imposing my views on the interviewed mother, but that was what came across to me from her interview. My children are grown up, but I would have thought a person like Terri would be just fine.
My whole world would have been turned around if I had a situation with a mother like Terri being presented. Who do you trust? Does your child live in a cocoon now?
It's totally sad that you just never know with people. I have two kids ages 5 and 3. I am totally protective over what they do and who they are with. I won't even register them in a bible school that isn't our home church. The only people who have ever watched my kids are family and my best friend once. I am a firm believer that some people aren't who they seem to be behind closed doors.
LadyL
07-13-2010, 09:18 PM
I'm troubled by this woman's hand/arm gestures. Notice how many times she puts her hands in front of her mouth. She might not be truthful in what she is saying. jmo
ITA, I was going to say her body language bothers me. Arms and hands in front of her constantly.
LadyL
07-13-2010, 09:20 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! :heart: I bet this story won't get any ratings.
Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited. WTH
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.
What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home! So much media and nothing of importance to bring Kyron home.
Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her. moo
[bbm]
she says she asked her son about Kyron's last day at school and relays what her son told her
grandmaj
07-13-2010, 09:21 PM
Stop rumoring about Kaine having an affair. You may say it is alleged he had an affair. That statement came from the landscaper who stated Terri said it. Last week Kaine stated on camera in a video no he was not having an affair.
So until it is proven he had an affair stop stating it is fact.
You may say it is alleged by Terri and as repeated by the Landscaper..... or any variation.
Kimster
07-13-2010, 09:24 PM
You guys better clean up these posts with rumors in them NOW!
Calliope
07-13-2010, 09:25 PM
Hi Eyes & Suzanne - I see both of you as loving people who want to always see the best in someone. This a fabulous trait and one that I share with you. But there are times when we come across people and circumstances in life that force us to remember that not everyone can 'keep it together'; we have a lot of crime in this world and that means a lot of people are committing it.
They all have loved ones who care - but it doesn't make them any less harmful to society. :(
Your points about Terri having shreds of good and being viewed positively by her friend on the video, are valid to the core. Your belief that the friend on the video is sincere and whose son loved Terri - is spot on. She did think that and she still does. This is normal. We would expect to find good things in people, no matter what they have done. And that includes Terri Horman. I am sure she brought joy to some people's lives, some of the time. Don't most all of us do that? One would hope.
<snipped for space>
...
The thing is, I don't see anyone who knew her jumping on the "Terri is evil incarnate" bandwagon. All we have is Desiree and Kaine, and even Kaine admits he didn't have a clue how horrible she was until after Kyron went missing. This has nothing to do with being fond of Terri, I just don't think it's possible to fool everyone.
LadyL
07-13-2010, 09:27 PM
I'm pretty sure I do that when I'm feeling shy or unsure of myself. And I'm bad at lying so I don't do it much (except for social fibs, e.g. "How are you?"..."Fine.") My body language just says that I have issues, not "I'm helping someone with their alibi". :)
[bbm]
I don't get that feeling at all but what I do think is that she doesn't believe her own words or maybe can't believe this entire situation. She's probably unsettled and uneasy and if she's recently had her own tragedy of losing her husband, her safe world must reallly feel like it's coming unglued. I feel for her.
KeenEyes
07-13-2010, 09:31 PM
I wonder if there were awards for these Tree Frog exhibits?
Did they go to to the STUDENT exhibits
and not to the exhibits obviously done by parents.
(Terri's FaceBook comment that Kyran 'did it all'...)
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Kyron did do most of it.His drawings are beautiful.He seems like a very talented little boy.
IIRC, the sci-fair held at Skyline was non-competitive (no awards). Even in sci-fairs which are judged, those from Kyron's grade level are often not formally entered. It is a sort of practice, which makes it a great teaching (and bonding) experience for a parent to assist a child in the pursuit of excellence. Next time around in an actual competition the child is likely to produce superior results on his/her own. They have to learn somehow, and producing a sci-project is usually a home assignment not a school lesson. Additionally, Kyron comes from a home environment where he has acquired advanced knowledge from being exposed to the talents and skills of his parents and step-parents that are ideal for this type of presentation. Finally, it is possible for a child of his age to be so academically and artistically inclined that he could plan and implement such a project with only minor consultation with his parents. I have personally witnessed it.
:star1: for Kyron!
Schmerty_Jones
07-13-2010, 09:36 PM
Really, all we want especially Kyron's family is "BRING KYRON HOME". You claim you took him to Skyline school on the 4th of June. Where ever you left him,get him & bring him home. THEN....... We will talk about who you hurt & who hurt you & Your dirty sexual photos & how many lovers you have to off Kaine. We want Kyron now!!! After that we will give you the spotlight, show the world what you really are. If you can't bring Kyron home ....... thinking about the death chamber should give you lots of thrills.
liz b.
07-13-2010, 09:53 PM
IIRC, the sci-fair held at Skyline was non-competitive (no awards). Even in sci-fairs which are judged, those from Kyron's grade level are often not formally entered. It is a sort of practice, which makes it a great teaching (and bonding) experience for a parent to assist a child in the pursuit of excellence. Next time around in an actual competition the child is likely to produce superior results on his/her own. They have to learn somehow, and producing a sci-project is usually a home assignment not a school lesson. Additionally, Kyron comes from a home environment where he has acquired advanced knowledge from being exposed to the talents and skills of his parents and step-parents that are ideal for this type of presentation. Finally, it is possible for a child of his age to be so academically and artistically inclined that he could plan and implement such a project with only minor consultation with his parents. I have personally witnessed it.
:star1: for Kyron!
ITA My children attended a small school in a very affluent neighborhood. I've gone to many science fairs. The children at our school often produced amazing work, just like Kyron's, with only parental guidance,rather than parental doing. I have read that both KH and TH helped and guided Kyron with his beautiful science project...
All JMO
M-pathetic
07-13-2010, 09:59 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! :heart: I bet this story won't get any ratings.
Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited. WTH
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.
What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home! So much media and nothing of importance to bring Kyron home.
Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her. moo
As diametrically opposed as my view to your post is, Eyes, I feel compelled to say that if I were ever innocently accused of anything, I would feel blessed to have you on my jury.
I am curious, though: if no physical evidence is ever discovered in this case, is there anything that might tend to incriminate Terri in your eyes or convince you of Terri's involvement in Kyron's disappearance? For instance, if the information we now have heard is completely substantiated to your satisfaction, does that color your judgments of her? TIA I stand in awe of your compassion.
LadyL
07-13-2010, 10:00 PM
Probably because Terri was the great pretender. Kaine most likely had faith in his marriage and it would have never crossed his mind that his wife was capable of walking out the door one morning and murdering his son, imo, if she is guilty.
I applaud his efforts now. He is doing everything in his power to protect his daughter from the unstable environment Terri has presumably created through her actions. Whoever Kaine's lawyer is, she is doing a great job, imo.
[bubm]
:smile:
LadyL
07-13-2010, 10:02 PM
*snipped*
I wondered if Terri had this mom's permission to post the mom's son's Science Fair photo on Terri's FB. I know I would be hoppin' mad if someone posted my child's photo on FB or anywhere on the net without my consent, especially in the midst of this criminal investigation.
she doesn't seem like the type to care about getting permission(s) IMO
oceanblueeyes
07-13-2010, 10:17 PM
BBM
Just the ones I remember....
Susan Smith - 2 children - drowning
Andrew Yates - 5 children - drowning
Julia Murray - 2 children, 1 survived - drowning
Debra Jeter - 2 children, 1 survived - stabbing
La'Tonya Dixon - 2 children, 1 survived - shooting
Casey Anthony - 1 child allegedly
All had people come out and say, she was a good mother, I don't know how this could happen.... I never would have imagined....
The abusive parents who kill their children are not so shocking.
It is these cases where it comes out of nowhere that we all struggle so much to understand.
I cannot explain why or how... but even if Terri rocked Kyron to sleep every single night and went to every school function...She still could join the above list one day.
More than 200 women kill their children each year. More of them here:
http://crime.about.com/od/female_offenders/a/mother_killers.htm
But aren't the overwhelming vast majority of these women the biological mother of the children they kill?
IMO
oceanblueeyes
07-13-2010, 10:37 PM
The thing is, I don't see anyone who knew her jumping on the "Terri is evil incarnate" bandwagon. All we have is Desiree and Kaine, and even Kaine admits he didn't have a clue how horrible she was until after Kyron went missing. This has nothing to do with being fond of Terri, I just don't think it's possible to fool everyone.
Yes, you would think if she was so incorrigible many would have spoken out in the media now telling horrid things about Terri. Especially if they were supportive of Kaine.
Yet no one is saying anything against her except Kaine and Desiree.:waitasec:
IMO
Haeve
07-13-2010, 11:24 PM
<snip>
More information on activities of daily living would be nice.
I do find it disturbing that KH spoke of Kyron staying in his room in the am until summoned and neither parent seemed to have a problem with that.
He must have a really nice room, but it says to me he preferred to be alone than with the family. That is unusual imo, most children prefer to be with their families/friends all the time.
<snip>
He appears in the pics to be a well adjusted child, not afraid of the camera, not too shy, and seemingly happy. moo
We know he played soccer. This is an after school program held at the school.
<snip>
Just a few random thoughts. About 25% of Americans are introverts (I'm one)--they don't necessarily prefer to be alone (except to "recharge"), but they don't mind being alone. I see nothing unusual about a child wanting to be alone, if that is indeed the case here. Introverts are often misunderstood. They're not abnormal, just the minority.
Personally, if I woke up early when I was a kid, I'd be much more likely to sneak in a few more chapters of the book I was reading when I fell asleep rather than get up, turn on the TV or whatever.
I'm painfully shy in some situations, much worse when I was a child, but I beamed for cameras (avoid them now, LOL), I looked happy.
And yeah, my upbringing was emotionally abusive and otherwise extremely weird. As I got older and more "worn down" it shows in photos of me, but when I was Kyron's age and a few years beyond, my eyes were still happy and sparkly.
I'm certainly not saying that something sinister lurks behind every picture of a happy family, or even in Kyron's family, but that it can. Besides, (and correct me if I'm wrong) a parent would have to be really sick to take pictures of their childen when they are crying or upset. There might have been hidden abuse in Kyron's family (people didn't know how abusive my mother was), or maybe TH suddenly snapped, but it wouldn't necessarily show in photos.
I am saying that brainy, introverted or shy children, like everyone, have a continuum of behaviors that may or may not conform to the norm but are not abnormal. If that makes any sense. ;) All JMO, YMMV.
MsFacetious
07-13-2010, 11:33 PM
But aren't the overwhelming vast majority of these women the biological mother of the children they kill?
IMO
The ones we hear about the most, yes.
What is more awful, more likely to make the news, a biological mother killing her own child...or a father's girlfriend or wife killing his child?
It is more unbelievable that a biological mother would do it. It only seems to me more feasible that a non biological mother would be capable of it.
Adalena935
07-13-2010, 11:40 PM
Kudos to this mom for going before national media and saying something positive about Terri! :heart: I bet this story won't get any ratings.
Mom let her son go bowling with Kyron and trusted Terri. Also saw Kyron at the science fair and relayed that Kyron was happy, excited. WTH
Is Terri responsible for this horrible crime? The only thing all the media coverage conveys is what a terrible person Terri is and how dysfunctional the marriage is.
What a tragedy if she is being set-up while the real perp roams free and Kyron has yet to be brought home! So much media and nothing of importance to bring Kyron home.
Always nice to hear something positive about Terri because I find it difficult to believe that she doesn't have a shred of motherly love and/or kindness in her. moo
People can hide who they are. Ted Bundy hid his true self from even Ann Rule who volunteered with him on the suicide hotline and she never caught on. And she was a law enforcement officer. Just sayin'
Aedrys
07-13-2010, 11:45 PM
The ones we hear about the most, yes.
What is more awful, more likely to make the news, a biological mother killing her own child...or a father's girlfriend or wife killing his child?
It is more unbelievable that a biological mother would do it. It only seems to me more feasible that a non biological mother would be capable of it.
Actually, it seems like a lot of cases I hear about where a child has been murdered have been done by a non-biological dad, or boyfriend. I think it's more common in that sort of case. It's extremely rare, it seems, to find a non-biological mother that does that sort of thing. I think that's what trips us up here. If TH were a man, I don't think there'd be nearly as much confusion about what happened here. But because she's a woman and supposedly a good mother, I think a lot people can't fathom she would hurt a child, much less a child that wasn't hers biologically.
But she did provide a lot of care for Kyron. This wasn't a stepmother that only saw him on weekends. This was a stepmother that mostly took care of this child, so I think in some ways, he was more than just a stepchild. I guess what I'm saying is, he was in her life as much as a biological child would be. So on some level, this case does match those where a biological child was killed by a biological mother. Plus, in some of these cases where it's biological, like Casey Anthony and Susan Smith, I don't think there was the level of attachment you'd normally have between mother and child. So in some ways, it was like they treated their children like they weren't biological children, just annoyances in their lives that they had to get rid of. And I think that matches this case too. I hope that makes sense.
Because some people are good liars, that's all it is. There wouldn't be any domestic crime if people couldn't fool their friends and family members into trusting them.
Even if Kaine saw something strange, the first reaction is usually denial, especially where children are concerned. If you read some of the high-profile cases here, no family member ever wants to believe that someone could be a bad mother or father, or even want to hurt a spouse.
One example: In the Peterson case, even with all the evidence stacked against Scott Peterson that came out over months and months, his brother and mother and father still took the stand in his defense, even knowing that he killed a pregnant woman and a baby. Laci never saw her own death coming from the father of her unborn child either. She and her family trusted him, but he was a chronic liar.
As far as what this poor woman said about TH, good for her. That's her perception. Whether it matches the reality when all is said and done is another thing entirely.
Hi Thoughtfox, I'm jumping off your post because I noticed you changed your avatar and I miss the D'onofiro one :wink: :)
JMHO and past experiences in life...
We tend to see other's as we see ourselves. We tend to judge other's by our own actions.
What I'm trying to say (and what I'm trying to teach my teens before they fly from my nest is this~) if we are good people, if we have kind hearts and wouldn't hurt another person intentionally (whether emotionally or physically) if we are law abiding---we view other's as having the same attributes. Especially if we have a friendship or any other type of relationship with them.
Conversely, if someone is capable of lying, is not worthy of trust...etc. They are usually the first ones to accuse you of being such when you aren't JMHO.
This woman defended her friend. I don't know her but within her relationship with TMH she judged TMH by her own sense of common decency and her own love for her own children (if she has any).
Also, it doesn't help when there are certain people we meet in life that will mirror us or present what we want to see in them---to gain our trust, but in fact they are nothing like what they present.
Life is very tricky isn't it?
All JMHO.
Aedrys
07-14-2010, 12:39 AM
Hi Thoughtfox, I'm jumping off your post because I noticed you changed your avatar and I miss the D'onofiro one :wink: :)
JMHO and past experiences in life...
We tend to see other's as we see ourselves. We tend to judge other's by our own actions.
What I'm trying to say (and what I'm trying to teach my teens before they fly from my nest is this~) if we are good people, if we have kind hearts and wouldn't hurt another person intentionally (whether emotionally or physically) if we are law abiding---we view other's as having the same attributes. Especially if we have a friendship or any other type of relationship with them.
Conversely, if someone is capable of lying, is not worthy of trust...etc. They are usually the first ones to accuse you of being such when you aren't JMHO.
This woman defended her friend. I don't know her but within her relationship with TMH she judged TMH by her own sense of common decency and her own love for her own children (if she has any).
Also, it doesn't help when there are certain people we meet in life that will mirror us or present what we want to see in them---to gain our trust, but in fact they are nothing like what they present.
Life is very tricky isn't it?
All JMHO.
ITA. Having been victim to two people that said what I wanted to hear and made me believe they were my friend, and then it was only later that I realized what frauds they were, you are absolutely right. And it sucks to know that they were not like me and were definitely NOT my friend. I hate the fact that I was manipulated and used by these people. It's one of the worst feelings of betrayal in the world to me. I still have trust issues to this day because of them. And when I see them in other people, I tend to go cynical and think the worst.
ITA. Having been victim to two people that said what I wanted to hear and made me believe they were my friend, and then it was only later that I realized what frauds they were, you are absolutely right. And it sucks to know that they were not like me and were definitely NOT my friend. I hate the fact that I was manipulated and used by these people. It's one of the worst feelings of betrayal in the world to me. I still have trust issues to this day because of them. And when I see them in other people, I tend to go cynical and think the worst.
I'm so sorry you had that happen to you Aedrys. I did too, it's such a hard life lesson.
FWIW, If and when TMH is found to be responsible for Kyron's disappearance this is going to hurt so many people. Even her friend that defended her.
ETA: all JMHO.
Chewy
07-14-2010, 01:03 AM
With regard to the hand gestures, I haven't watched the clip but I will say that my sister is hearing impaired and since she's pointed it out to me it is amazing how many people cover their mouth when they talk. It drives her crazy because she needs to see their lips in order to lip read. She said it is often shyness about having poor teeth.
txsvicki
07-14-2010, 02:10 AM
It's interesting to see what people have to say about Terri and Kyron, but I'm more interested in what went on in the house when they were all alone. Good grief, Terri had charge of Kyron since he was a toddler and was a stay at home mom. Of course she'd seem comfortable and happy around him. If she were very mean around the school or with friends they would have been doing something about it. Hopefully Kaine and the older boy are the ones who can answer if Kyron was expected to be perfect or was overly disciplined in a harsh scary way. Terri's achievements and life seemed perfectly normal to me except for giving up a master's degree career to stay at home with another woman's baby and the dui around that same time. Something seems to have been very wrong in the marriage, so all this talk from friends is more hope that Terri did love Kyron, thought she was about to be left, and wanted to hide him. Maybe not realistic, but at least there's hope.
butwhatif?
07-14-2010, 02:18 AM
I'm certainly not saying that something sinister lurks behind every picture of a happy family, or even in Kyron's family, but that it can. Besides, (and correct me if I'm wrong) a parent would have to be really sick to take pictures of their childen when they are crying or upset. There might have been hidden abuse in Kyron's family (people didn't know how abusive my mother was), or maybe TH suddenly snapped, but it wouldn't necessarily show in photos.
Respectfully snipped and BBM
I must be really sick then. I have pics of my lil ones crying....Like when they have just lost a baby tooth, when the tears were a mix of anxiety and relief. And I uploaded to my private FB page...but it was followed by a pic of a grin from ear to ear after a visit from the toothfairy.
Back on topic, I'd love to know just how close Terri and her really were. Any phone calls to each other recently?
Weird that it took her so long to come out and say this.
Wonder if Terri showed her a lot of support after her hubby passed, and that kindness colored her vision of Terri.
JMO
Haeve
07-14-2010, 02:36 AM
<snip>
I must be really sick then. I have pics of my lil ones crying....Like when they have just lost a baby tooth, when the tears were a mix of anxiety and relief. And I uploaded to my private FB page...but it was followed by a pic of a grin from ear to ear after a visit from the toothfairy.
<snip>
Sorry if I caused offense. I did say "correct me if I'm wrong", so thank you--I'm not a parent so I honestly couldn't think of a reason why one would take photos of a child who was unhappy. The thought of it just makes me sad. And not to sound maudlin, but I was thinking of my own childhood, where I was often crying because of the verbal and emotional abuse my mother dished out. It would have been pretty horrible (and sick) if she had documented that on film, I think. Would there be a reason to do that?
Again, sorry, I was just trying to illustrate the fact that just because a family looks happy...etc. Hypothetical and rhetorical, but what would y'all do if you saw someone's family photos where everyone looked unhappy? Has anyone ever seen such a thing?
Because of my personal experience, I just can't help but poke holes in people's assumptions about what a happy family looks like. :angel: People who can't imagine a mother mistreating her children are very very lucky! Bless all of you who really love your children.
newone
07-14-2010, 03:07 AM
Sorry if I caused offense. I did say "correct me if I'm wrong", so thank you--I'm not a parent so I honestly couldn't think of a reason why one would take photos of a child who was unhappy. The thought of it just makes me sad. And not to sound maudlin, but I was thinking of my own childhood, where I was often crying because of the verbal and emotional abuse my mother dished out. It would have been pretty horrible (and sick) if she had documented that on film, I think. Would there be a reason to do that?
Again, sorry, I was just trying to illustrate the fact that just because a family looks happy...etc. Hypothetical and rhetorical, but what would y'all do if you saw someone's family photos where everyone looked unhappy? Has anyone ever seen such a thing?
Because of my personal experience, I just can't help but poke holes in people's assumptions about what a happy family looks like. :angel: People who can't imagine a mother mistreating her children are very very lucky! Bless all of you who really love your children.
You know what? I hated when folks took photos of me when I was a kid for same reasons that you outlined (it seemed soooo phony) however when I was a mom I was proud of my kids and when they critiqued their photos as they aged pointing out that they were missing teeth or whatever I reminded (MY kids) that I took the photo because the subjects them were so beautiful to me. I find it sad that there are so many kids who are unloved. As parents we have an opportunity to remind our kids how beautiful they are every day!
LillyRush
07-14-2010, 03:23 AM
I think that Terri's level of participation in the school was perfectly normal, as far as volunteering and that sort of thing. The types of things she did do also seem to mostly fit in line with her educational background, goals, etc. I'm not saying this as a way to point to guilt or innocence, just that I don't think the posts where things are stated as though she was trying to be "mother of the year" or going overboard in some narcissistic way are accurate. I've seen no actual example of how she went overboard at all like that with the school/classroom helper stuff.
froginTtown
07-14-2010, 08:35 AM
I thought this lady was very honest. I do believe her when she said she thinks Terri is a good mother. I wish more had the courage to step forward and give their opinions on the Terri they knew/know but with the media so much against Terri some may be fearful to do so thinking they will suffer backlash themselves.
To this day I have never seen anyone say that Terri was an abusive mother to Kyron before his disappearance. Not even Kaine.
I also agree with this lady when she said if the person is guilty then they deserve all of this but if they are not it will destroy them (paraphrasing).
IMO
I love this post and totally agree with it...!!! (from my own personal experience..:angel:)
ClueMeIn
07-14-2010, 08:42 AM
I don't think the "friend" was necessarily saying what a wonderful person Terri was. I think she was in disbelief that she trusted her. The hands over the mouth, could have been disbelief and shock.
Cajun Girl
07-14-2010, 09:38 AM
IMHO
We are all so very fragile. This woman was protecting herself, confessing and sharing her point of view. We are all very capable of putting on our public faces, masking our true feelings and allowing others to see what we have displayed. If there was some final plan falling into place am sure TH was on her best behavior, creating fun times and photos for all to see.
How many times have we heard, "he was a quiet man"? What demons lurk beyond our public facade is anyone's guess.
Where are you precious angel? Kyron, you are loved and missed. May the angels surround you.
believe09
07-14-2010, 09:43 AM
with kiane placing all this guilt, it makes you wonder why didnt he take actions sooner to protect his children is it was that much of a threat.
??? What action could he have taken sooner? just curious...he was notified post disappearance by LE that TH was hiring someone to kill him and may have had something to do with the disappearance of his son. Once he was notified he fled, took his remaining child into safe hiding and filed for divorce/RO.
keeponsearching
07-14-2010, 10:03 AM
I like the fact this woman is waiting until whoever took Kyron is discovered instead of jumping on the wagon and thinking of things to say about Terri that aren't so good.
I wonder what I would do if a friend started being accused of something along these lines. This lady like other moms and teachers probably know Terri more than anyone....
The way I am with my kids, is the same way I am with my kids in my house. I disipline them everywhere. I feel those thatact different outside there homes are the ones we have to look at. FOr example my mothers boyfriend, i would never known how mean he really was if my mom never told me what he said about me after we left... So with that being said, I would like some info to come out about how Terri interacted with all her children, and its hard to tell if it was any different at home... But really if a kid is acting up, at home, no take a time out, in public oh sweety please don't touch that, two different things. Me, no, please do not touch, take a reset, anywhere I am.... just saying except my kids act way better in public than at home.
Gosh this is the longest post I have ever wrote and it probably doesn't even make sense, ohh children screaming.....stomping feet haha..
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