View Full Version : Deceased/Not Found Canada - Lyle McCann, 78, & Marie McCann, 77; Burned RV found 5 July 2010 - #2
Cubby
07-28-2010, 08:59 PM
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss50/Connie2/Missing/tp-edm-mccann.jpg
Marie Ann McCann, 77, and Lyle Thomas McCann, 78, left Alberta for B.C. on July 3 and have not been seen by their family since.
Police are looking for this light green Hyundai Tucson SUV with Alberta licence plate ZPK 289.
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss50/Connie2/Missing/tp_edm_mccann_suv.jpg
Facebook: Help us find our parents: Lyle & Marie McCann (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=134245599942161&v=wall)
If you have any information that may be helpful in our search,
PLEASE CONTACT
St. Albert RCMP Detachment
780.458.4300 or
780.458.7700
24 hour tips line
Crimestoppers
1-800-222-8477 (TIPS).
http://lyleandmariemccann.com/ (http://lyleandmariemccann.com/) FOR ANONYMOUS TIPS
Thread 1
please continue here...
satchel
07-28-2010, 11:36 PM
Well Bobbi-Jo, that description of yer kind-hearted bro don't quite warsh with yer daddy warning the public not to corner him, eh?
And hon, if he warn't driving that suv, then what's the problem with sayin what he arrived in? And maybe you can tell us how LE was well onto him before they even found the McCann's suv that was parked darn near in his back yard.
Seems like Bobbi-Jo needs to get her story straight if she is going to help "Tadar" out of the hot water he's got himself into.
nettie_82
07-29-2010, 09:24 AM
I am very curious as to why TV calls Ester his foster mom, she is only 10yrs older than him????????? Girlfriend maybe???? God help the kids that have to go into the system in her neighbourhood!
In the news articles it says that Esther is Bobbi's Foster Mother? Is it possible that Esther only fostered Bobbi and not TV?
Wondergirl
07-29-2010, 10:42 AM
What is the general consensus here, on what happened to the McCann's *if* TV's sister story can be corroborated, placing him with her during the period in question (Jul 4 to 9? or Jul 4 to 11)
Wondergirl
07-29-2010, 10:44 AM
Where are the McCann's???
RubyRed
07-29-2010, 11:43 AM
I have always felt something happened to the McCanns the same day they left on their trip, July 3rd. Either they were car-jacked or stopped to help someone they thought needed help and were over powered.
I believe TV is involved and given his history of violence and arson, killed them, burned the RV ad took off in their car.
Given where the RV, car and TV were found, I feel he has buried them in the area, more than likely the vicinity of where the RV was found. moo
carbuff
07-29-2010, 12:12 PM
I have always felt something happened to the McCanns the same day they left on their trip, July 3rd. Either they were car-jacked or stopped to help someone they thought needed help and were over powered.
I believe TV is involved and given his history of violence and arson, killed them, burned the RV ad took off in their car.
Given where the RV, car and TV were found, I feel he has buried them in the area, more than likely the vicinity of where the RV was found. moo
If TV did it, I don't see why he wouldn't have burned the bodies in the RV.
Summersolstice
07-29-2010, 12:21 PM
In the news articles it says that Esther is Bobbi's Foster Mother? Is it possible that Esther only fostered Bobbi and not TV?
One article said she was "their" foster mother.
Summersolstice
07-29-2010, 12:22 PM
What is the general consensus here, on what happened to the McCann's *if* TV's sister story can be corroborated, placing him with her during the period in question (Jul 4 to 9? or Jul 4 to 11)
"If" covers a lot of ground. The McCanns were last seen July 3.
Summersolstice
07-29-2010, 01:37 PM
People who are following more than one story here at WS may find this intriguing:
http://new.edmontonsun.com/news/columnists/andrew_hanon/2010/02/09/12822231.html
Hazel
07-29-2010, 05:37 PM
Reposting local map:
MAP = http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=MacKay,+Alberta+(TV+apprehended)&daddr=53.609796,-115.604324+to:Niton+Junction,+Alberta+(where+TV+gr ew+up)+to:Carrot+Creek,+Alberta+(just+a+reference) +to:Peers,+Alberta+(unconfirmed+sightings+of+TV)+t o:Range+Road+144,+Yellowhead+County,+Division+No.+ 14,+Alberta+T0E+0G0+to:Minnow+Lake,+Alberta+(RV+fo und+burned)+to:Edson,+Alberta+(just+a+reference)&geocode=FciIMgMdrVUc-SnPxX_rGu2eUzH2BECUr-BKsQ%3B%3BFaAiMgMdOX8Z-Sl5qGtF1pOeUzFqvrp17mBmsA%3BFVAGMgMd1iwY-SmfT1Qh55CeUzFGHyNytI0utA%3BFRnnMgMd2yoW-SlFW_lrIJieUzHCZSGbtH8H2g%3BFeNqMQMdELwV-SldDvmTkZueUzHE0lEOZW6pVA%3BFZkxLgMdaWwV-Snr8VB99yqcUzEO34xziw7-Bw%3BFYyeMQMdulkP-Sk1DlPveiKcUzFNzG6q5MvbHg&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=0,1&mrsp=1&sz=15&sll=53.610458,-115.613637&sspn=0.012272,0.027552&ie=UTF8&ll=53.610433,-115.611877&spn=0.78541,1.763306&t=h&z=9
( A ) MacKay, Alberta ---> (where TV was apprehended)
( B ) Nojack campground ---> (searched by LE)
( C ) Niton Junction, Alberta ---> (where TV grew up)
( D ) Carrot Creek, Alberta ---> (just a reference)
( E ) Peers, Alberta ---> (unconfirmed sightings of TV)
( F ) Range Road 144, Alberta ---> (where SUV was found hidden under trees)
( G ) Minnow Lake, Alberta ---> (where RV found burned)
( H ) Edson, Alberta ---> (just a reference)
Hazel
07-29-2010, 06:23 PM
I have always felt something happened to the McCanns the same day they left on their trip, July 3rd. Either they were car-jacked or stopped to help someone they thought needed help and were over powered.
I believe TV is involved and given his history of violence and arson, killed them, burned the RV ad took off in their car.
Given where the RV, car and TV were found, I feel he has buried them in the area, more than likely the vicinity of where the RV was found. moo
I agree with you Ruby that something happened the same day they left, maybe even during the first hours of their trip, since there has been no reports of sightings of the RV towing along the SUV reaching their first planned stop (Blue River, BC).
How long did we calculate will take to reach the campground from St. Albert? 2/3 hours the most?
We have also heard that the SUV was seen at the campground earlier on Monday, July 5th, and here is where Bobbi's alibi creates a problem, IF she is telling the truth, and IF TV didn't move from her place during all those days. Difficult to believe that a guy will stay put for so many days indoors. Oh wait, she said he was ill, right? ;)
The SUV was found east of where the RV was found. How did the perp(s) leave the area after hiding the SUV? I sure hope the area where the SUV was found holds the answer, and that the SUV itself contains all the evidence needed that will point towards the perp(s).
eachandevery
07-29-2010, 06:26 PM
Silly question, perhaps, but IF the couple's bodies were burned in the RV, would any traces of them be found in the ashes?
Valleyboy
07-29-2010, 07:06 PM
Silly question, perhaps, but IF the couple's bodies were burned in the RV, would any traces of them be found in the ashes?
There would still have been bone fragments and they could still probably be identified by DNA.
LayzeeDayzee
07-29-2010, 07:08 PM
Silly question, perhaps, but IF the couple's bodies were burned in the RV, would any traces of them be found in the ashes?
I'd have to search for it but I do believe that RCMP had stated in one of the media articles that the investigation of the burned out RV did not show signs of human remains. Does anyone else remember reading this?
Plus you'd think too....if there was any chance that human remains were found within the RV, wouldn't LE state that? I mean, why would they keep that a secret? Would be horrible for the family if that was the case and they let days and weeks go by only to somewhere down the road tell the family "Oh yeah, and way back weeks ago we did find evidence of human remains."
Was the RV totally burned up when it was found? My understanding is that people had spotted the smoke from it burning..........and I got the impression from reading the media reports, that the RV wasn't totally burned down when it was found such that someone was able to get into the glove box to get out the registration papers.
I am certainly not a fire expert but I always thought that it would take a lot for fire to totally destroy all evidence of human remains.....? (things like bones, teeth)
I would think too that LE wouldn't let the family and general public, and organizations such as Missing Persons believe that they were still looking for the McCanns if in fact they had evidence that they had perished in the RV fire; to me that would be beyond cruel and it makes no sense to me why they would withhold such info; particularly because the perp or perps would KNOW what they'd done.
I still wonder if neighboring lakes around there were dragged. There's been no mention of this in the news at all. If they were killed (and I pray they weren't), wouldn't it be likely that a perp would dump them in a deep lake as opposed to bury them? Are the lakes in that area very deep?
To me it would be a lot easier for LE to find "signs" of ground having been disrupted (and bodies buried)......and you'd think that cadaver dogs would pick up some kind of scent........as opposed to bodies being down at the bottom of a very deep lake.
IMO the Mccanns are somewere between, where they unfortunatly met the person and the RV burnt, I'm sure there's lots of side/bush roads between.
They have to be local, they know the roads. I live small town Canada.
I can't see them using the car for transporting.
I do see the possibility of someone framing TV - giving him the car for a pay-off. Setting the cabin fire would lead to TV as he's a pyro. I'm sure he has some enemies.
Mr Mccann is a trucker- he would of check all things. Theres got to be a record of his milage somewhere around.
I just want them to be found so much. There is no honor anymore and there really used to be. MOO
carbuff
07-29-2010, 07:34 PM
Silly question, perhaps, but IF the couple's bodies were burned in the RV, would any traces of them be found in the ashes?
Almost certainly. RV's burn very intensely, but even very intense heat won't totally reduce a human body. There would still be bone fragments, fillings, possibly remains of dental appliances, etc. But it would be so fragmentary that it would be very difficult to prove a cause of death and so forth. RV's do burn like this sometimes; there are usually a dozen or so deaths every year around the US and Canada.
Snoopster
07-29-2010, 08:36 PM
I agree with you Ruby that something happened the same day they left, maybe even during the first hours of their trip, since there has been no reports of sightings of the RV towing along the SUV reaching their first planned stop (Blue River, BC).
How long did we calculate will take to reach the campground from St. Albert? 2/3 hours the most?
We have also heard that the SUV was seen at the campground earlier on Monday, July 5th, and here is where Bobbi's alibi creates a problem, IF she is telling the truth, and IF TV didn't move from her place during all those days. Difficult to believe that a guy will stay put for so many days indoors. Oh wait, she said he was ill, right? ;)
The SUV was found east of where the RV was found. How did the perp(s) leave the area after hiding the SUV? I sure hope the area where the SUV was found holds the answer, and that the SUV itself contains all the evidence needed that will point towards the perp(s).
I'm not buying Bobbi's story either. She says that TV wouldn't hurt anyone. Well how come so many others, including his own father, believe that the CAN hurt someone.
Hazel, I'm with you and Ruby. I believe that McCanns will be found in the area....most likely near the RV. I think they were killed in the RV, the perp(s) hid for a couple of days and disposed of the bodies, but then had to get rid of the RV so that the evidence would be destroyed. The SUV would have been torched too, if he (they) thought there was evidence of foul play in it.
So, as per my red bolding, how did the perp get from the SUV dump site and into town?
Cubby
07-29-2010, 09:35 PM
brought over from the last thread..... so it was not missed.
If the SUV was seen in princegeorge and vader was at his sisters the day after the motorhome was burnt then who is the real culprit. vaders sister most likely lieing of course..We all can try to figure out what may of happened but may never know. Even the best dectives may have diff idea but who really knows what happened from st.albert till the rv was burned..pray like crazy..Wish someone would find the McCanns. this is taking to long. The Rv at forensics should have what they need by now..So get on with it..
Thyme
07-29-2010, 10:03 PM
How did the perp(s) leave the area after hiding the SUV?
I sure hope that they have checked the sisters phone records.
Hazel
07-30-2010, 01:09 AM
:Welcome-12-june: mindy24
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 02:55 AM
Anyone know if the towbar for the suv required some type of unlocking mechanism, or can anyone just walk up to one of those things and unhook them without encountering some type of security feature? Carbuff, where are you?
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 03:20 AM
... The SUV was found east of where the RV was found. How did the perp(s) leave the area after hiding the SUV? I sure hope the area where the SUV was found holds the answer, and that the SUV itself contains all the evidence needed that will point towards the perp(s).
<snip>
Good question Hazel. It's one thing to ditch the SUV down by Carrot Creek and walk out of that grove of trees to the road, but he ended up in Mackay somehow, and I doubt he/they walked that distance.
If TV is in fact involved ...
When TV was spotted in Peers, do we know whether he was driving the SUV? If he WAS, then he was in Peers prior to the SUV being found July 16. In which case, i would hazard a guess that somebody like a Kerchief Kenny from Peers picked him up down near Carrot Creek around July 16 and that's how TV ended up further east at Bulmer's place in Mackay by July 18/19.
BTW, that Getson dude from Niton Junction that said he "hadn't kept in touch with Vader but instantly recognized him in a photo released by police Friday" ... well now, Getson was one of TV's most recent additions to his FB friends list. So I say he WAS in touch with TV recently in some respect while TV was still accessing his FB account in order for TV to accept Getson as a FB friend ... OR maybe it was Getson who accepted TV as a friend. Once you're a FB friend, you can chit chat away behind peoples' backs :)
Do we know if the McCanns had a laptop in their RV?
bbm and MOO
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 03:52 AM
I've mapped out the timeline using the following chronology (unfortunately I do not know how to post a map):
1. July 3 - McCanns gassed up in St. Albert
2. July 5 - SUV seen with the RV at Minnow Lake campground, Site #8
3. July 5 - RV burned near Minnow Lake Campground 1 hr s/e of Edson
4. July 8 - SUV sighted in PG with 2 peeps (reported by Bjorklands July 12)
5. July 10 - McCanns reported missing
6. July 12?? - TV sighted in Peers a week prior to his arrest *
7. July 16 - SUV found at RR 144 near Carrot Creek about 45 mins from Minnow Lake Campground
8. July 18 - possible sighting of TV in white van, Strathcona Blvd, Calgary
9. July 19 - TV apprehended at Don Bulmer's house in MacKay
* Do we know if the Peers sightings were in the SUV or not? That would establish a timeframe for the Peers sightings.
Dates that may or may not factor in to the above timeline:
July 4 - TV supposedly in Edmonton with Esther/Bobbi-Jo
July 9 - TV supposedly left Edmonton?
July 11 - TV supposedly left Edmonton?
In the above chronology, the Prince George sightings are very plausible. If those sightings were untrue, then we have from July 5 to approx. July 12 between Minnow Lake and Peers that is unaccounted for. IF the Calgary sighting was a genuine independent report (as opposed to misinformation from LE), then we would have to consider which of TV's friends or relatives owns a white van or if a white van was reported stolen **
** ETA: Unlikely the white van was stolen, because it would have to have been reported stolen around the Carrot Creek area further north.
lauriej
07-30-2010, 04:38 AM
..i was camping in that area last weekend. i did see numerous posters all over. in addition to the dense bush , the highway along the mountains has the mountain on one side, and nothing but a guard rail on the other side. just a sheer long long way down on the other.if i was a criminal i would throw something / somebody down over there.
..the elevation in the edson/jasper area is 3000-4000 ft. depending where you are.
..we stopped at the nojack campground for a lunch break coming home, saw the orange tape on the trees, at the time i didn't know it was from LE marking the areas that had been searched a few days earlier.
..drove through edson, niton junction-----tiny little towns, all around all you see is bush. between that and the mountain drop offs i wouldn't have a clue where to look if i were LE.
..what do we think this guy's motive may have been? robbery? $$$'s for meth? since we've seen the video of mr. mcC paying for gas with a credit/debit card, i doubt they had much cash on them, who does these days.
..i think he ( whoever he is ) did something to them,( at a rest stop ?) and then "he" drove the motor home to the dead end at minnow lake---mr.mc.C would never have purposely parked it there like that on his own. ( experienced campers----as they were---go to great lengths to get it situated "just so" ).
...it's such a sad case, this wonderful couple off on a holiday and they never arrived.
nickle couch
07-30-2010, 07:36 AM
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)
They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)
Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?
Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
nettie_82
07-30-2010, 09:14 AM
I'd have to search for it but I do believe that RCMP had stated in one of the media articles that the investigation of the burned out RV did not show signs of human remains. Does anyone else remember reading this?
I do remember reading this, however, I also remember reading since that LE are going back over the scene again because at the time they found the RV it wasn't known to be part of a missing persons case?! Anyone else remember that?
matou
07-30-2010, 10:19 AM
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)
They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)
Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?
Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
Thank you so much for this interesting post. I'm not noticing any rocking around in the RV in the video. The RV is definitely backing up about 4 feet. Is it possible that the RV has standard transmission? I do not know anything about RV's at all and would need your expert opinion on this. Mr. McCann was an expert driver and he would likely NOT back up his RV with a vehicle hitched on it. If the RV was standard, wouldn't it roll back a bit, and especially roll back more if an inexperienced driver tried to drive it? Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/user/CTVnewsEdmonton#p/u/3/XuuGkD7kXqU
The more I look at the video, I don't think he is backing up, he is letting it roll, if it's a standard, that's the only way that makes sense, and then it snaps into gear. It's either/or, it's a standard and it rolls back and snaps into gear, or he backs up 4 feet for no reason whatsoever, but the transition from backward to forward is more of a snap, if he was backing up, he would have to back up/stop/put into forward, and that doesn't happen. Also, whoever is driving pulls right out and carves it right. Someone driving a big rig would not cut that much of an angle, I don't think, especially while towing another vehicle. JMO
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 11:29 AM
..i was camping in that area last weekend. i did see numerous posters all over. in addition to the dense bush , the highway along the mountains has the mountain on one side, and nothing but a guard rail on the other side. just a sheer long long way down on the other.if i was a criminal i would throw something / somebody down over there.
..the elevation in the edson/jasper area is 3000-4000 ft. depending where you are.
..we stopped at the nojack campground for a lunch break coming home, saw the orange tape on the trees, at the time i didn't know it was from LE marking the areas that had been searched a few days earlier.
..drove through edson, niton junction-----tiny little towns, all around all you see is bush. between that and the mountain drop offs i wouldn't have a clue where to look if i were LE.
..what do we think this guy's motive may have been? robbery? $$$'s for meth? since we've seen the video of mr. mcC paying for gas with a credit/debit card, i doubt they had much cash on them, who does these days.
..i think he ( whoever he is ) did something to them,( at a rest stop ?) and then "he" drove the motor home to the dead end at minnow lake---mr.mc.C would never have purposely parked it there like that on his own. ( experienced campers----as they were---go to great lengths to get it situated "just so" ).
...it's such a sad case, this wonderful couple off on a holiday and they never arrived.
Someone said in an interview that TV's family had returned to the area from Texas in the mid-1980s. He would have been quite familiar with the woods in those parts. He'd also worked in the sawmill/logging industry and oilpatch, so chances are he'd be familiar with old logging roads, new oilpatch roads, cutlines, etc. Chances are the folks around there have quads to get them through any areas that are unreachable by car. In other words, prospects of finding the McCanns, if foul play and TV are involved, are slim. Sometimes the courts urge an accused to disclose the location of victims for consideration at sentencing, but no one has been charged. Proving foul play without a body requires considerable circumstantial evidence from LE.
As far as motive, what did the McCanns have in their possession that would have interested a meth addict on the run? The most valuable possessions I'm aware of were their vehicles. There's also a possibility that money wasn't involved, but that other nefarious matters took precedence.
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 11:39 AM
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)
They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)
Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?
Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
Your input with information like this is very valuable. I know that the McCanns' disappearance is being followed on forums in the RV community. Some believe an experienced RVer like Mr. McCann would have gone to a busy RV park nearer the Yellowhead, rather than an isolated one like the spot the RV was found.
If I'm following you, this line of thinking could lead back to what was deleted from one website...that someone other than the McCanns could have been in that RV from the moment they set out from St. Albert. IIRC, the phone directory shows the Vader surname in the north end of Edmonton not far from St. Albert. Someone could have been eyeing the McCanns from closer than that before they left.
I'm thinking of the couple from Calgary who vanished this spring, and were found in the woods north of the city. Were they carjacked from their own home? I can't stop thinking there's some kind of common thread.
Wasn't going to say this, but anyways, I can't stop thinking of this, too:
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=d902dfe5-f7dd-49cf-8f07-f5552cabd261
Shearing/Ennis revealed many years after the murders that he hadn't told the whole story, and that sexual assault was involved. What else did he forget to mention? This story reminded me of Deliverance.
The Yellowhead highway is a drug corridor. Following another case on WS led me to this story about another drug corridor:
http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=d181cf7d-047d-472a-9d9d-9528a05e755a&sponsor=
Today marks the start of the busiest camping weekend of the year. People will be everywhere. Let's hope someone finds something amiss and reports it.
CrymeARiver
07-30-2010, 11:50 AM
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)
They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)
Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?
Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
Yes, I have thought from the beginning that someone may have entered the motorhome at the gas station. Maybe even before at the home.
I can imagine a few things looking at that window while Mr. McCann is gasing up, but i think that it is the mister's and the gas hose shadow.
I'ts a little hard to judge the distance of the mh backing up, but i counted to 10 giving approx. a foot for every count, and came up with 6-9 feet.
I was so hoping and praying that this couple of 58 years of marriage would be found by now. Very sad.
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 12:26 PM
Thank you so much for this interesting post. I'm not noticing any rocking around in the RV in the video. The RV is definitely backing up about 4 feet.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CANADA Canada - Lyle McCann, 78, and Marie McCann, 77; Burned RV found July 5,2010
At about the :27 mark and 1:37 there are two almost imperceptible shakes of the RV. They are so slight that the only way i could see them was to position the point of my cursor on the tip of the black line on the RV, take my hand off the cursor and watch. I didn't post about them at the time because I thought possibly Mrs. McCann being in the RV might have caused the motion. Now I realize that with an RV of that size and weight, it is unlikely that normal movement within the RV would cause any noticeable shake at all, and it is possibly caused by an irregular movement within the RV.
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 12:35 PM
Is it possible that the RV has standard transmission? I do not know anything about RV's at all and would need your expert opinion on this. Mr. McCann was an expert driver and he would likely NOT back up his RV with a vehicle hitched on it. If the RV was standard, wouldn't it roll back a bit, and especially roll back more if an inexperienced driver tried to drive it?
...
Also, whoever is driving pulls right out and carves it right. Someone driving a big rig would not cut that much of an angle, I don't think, especially while towing another vehicle. JMO
I used to drive standard transmission but as I got older, found it really bothered my back, because there are points where you basically have both feet off the floor. JMO, but even though Mr. McCann had been a long haul trucker, you would think that in his retirement years he would opt for the luxury of an automatic transmission in an RV.
I agree that the turn is exceptionally tight ... and faster than i would expect for someone just setting out on a leisurely tour.
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 01:19 PM
Video: Home video of Lyle McCann
Home video of Lyle McCann, supplied by the McCann family.
http://www.timescolonist.com/Lawyer+fugitive+arrested+after+couple+disappears+q uits+today+court/3300608/Video+Home+video+Lyle+McCann/3294058/story.html
Thyme
07-30-2010, 01:26 PM
If there was someone parked in front of them wouldn't they have to back up a bit and pull a hard right to get out? Too bad there isn't a better video view of this gas station. I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 01:29 PM
McCann case prompts RV travellers to change plans
The McCann's disappearance is changing the plans of some who travel and camp by RV.
RV campers are making more of an effort to check in with family members since the McCann's disappeared.
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/McCann+case+prompts+travellers+change+plans/3329453/story.html
badhorsie
07-30-2010, 01:32 PM
I wonder whether the Mccann's would have had any medications with them that would have interested an addict, I am thinking benzos or opiates?
The old couple worry me so much, I so hoped for a happy ending
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 01:39 PM
Here is an interactive map of all key points. ( global, Edmonton)
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=109853917809976877355.00048b5d99343df923a0c&source=embed&ll=54.52427,-114.537964&spn=1.986144,4.235229&z=8&iwloc=00048b5daa88a3a951b63
Thyme
07-30-2010, 01:52 PM
Thanks RubyRed. Is it the Petro-Can gas station? It seems different in the video.
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 01:52 PM
I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
I think you are right Thyme. I went back and placed the cursor on the pump instead of on the RV, and it is the video that moves, not just the RV. Am thinking that the door of the gas station opening or closing could shake the camera somewhat.
nettie_82
07-30-2010, 02:26 PM
If there was someone parked in front of them wouldn't they have to back up a bit and pull a hard right to get out? Too bad there isn't a better video view of this gas station. I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
I agree with you as well Thyme. I am not sure if people think someone got into the RV and overtook Marie while Lyle was fueling or how they figure it happened? Besides, just a guess here, but I am guessing there are quite a few gas pumps at the Superstore all of which have video surveillance and if someone got into the RV I would think it would have been captured on one of those cameras, not to mention that the McCann's most likely weren't the only ones fueling up at that time. I would think LE could check Superstore's purchase times via receipts and purchases and also trace who else filled up with gas around that time to question to see if they did see something. If someone saw someone get in the RV in question, I would hope it would have been reported by now. I could be wrong, but I still tend to think it is somewhere towards Edson where the couple ran into trouble.
nettie_82
07-30-2010, 02:27 PM
I used to drive standard transmission but as I got older, found it really bothered my back, because there are points where you basically have both feet off the floor. JMO, but even though Mr. McCann had been a long haul trucker, you would think that in his retirement years he would opt for the luxury of an automatic transmission in an RV.
I agree that the turn is exceptionally tight ... and faster than i would expect for someone just setting out on a leisurely tour.
I personally don't think that is something we can assume as to if he would opt for an automatic in retirement. My husband drives truck, and I am sure if he retires and buys an RV it would be standard as well, give him that "driving a big truck" feeling again!!
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 02:35 PM
If there was someone parked in front of them wouldn't they have to back up a bit and pull a hard right to get out? Too bad there isn't a better video view of this gas station. I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
Mr. McCann, having spent his life as a professional driver, and babying his RV (seems obvious by the sparkle of those tire rims), would not likely risk damaging his gear with such impatience. And isn't such impatience more the sign of a person in a hurry, rather than a man in his late 70s heading out for a leisurely trip? Why would a retired person on vacation be in such a hurry? And perhaps the next question is, what was seen on the other video cameras for the other gas pumps?
I'll go out on a limb here and say Mr. McCann was not an aggressive driver.
nettie_82
07-30-2010, 02:36 PM
JULY 30,2010
GLENN COOK
As the search for a missing St. Albert couple enters its fourth week, RCMP are still optimistic they will be found, although it’s getting more and more difficult.
Sgt. Patrick Webb of RCMP K Division said that the search for Lyle and Marie McCann is ongoing and still moving in a positive direction.
“As time passes, it gets more and more difficult, but we are still hopeful we can find them,” Webb said. “It’s one of those things where we’re guessing on what happened and what we’re going to find, but very much, we’ve got a lot of resources working on this.”
The couple, who live on Gladstone Crescent, were last seen on Saturday, July 3, at the Superstore gas bar on St. Albert Trail. They were reported missing when they didn’t meet their daughter as planned in Abbotsford, B.C., a week later.
Webb said that, as of Wednesday, police had received 470 tips over the course of the investigation, dealing with the whereabouts of the McCanns, their SUV, which was recovered on Friday, July 16, and Travis Edward Vader, a person of interest in the case who was arrested on outstanding warrants unrelated to the McCann case on Monday, July 19.
“They’re coming in all the time,” Webb said. “The majority that are coming in now — now that we have [Vader] in custody — are dealing with anything people might have seen or the vehicles.”
Rumours started flying over the weekend that police had given up the search for the McCanns, but Webb said that’s simply not the case.
“When we’re talking a physical search for forensic evidence at a scene, those are finished; there’s only so much you can do at a scene. You finish it and you’re done,” he said. “But the search for the McCanns is still very much ongoing.”
Right now, he added, police have completed their searches of the scenes where the McCanns’ motorhome and SUV were found and where Vader was arrested, along with a campground near Nojack.
Vader remains in custody and has started making court appearances for some of the warrants he was arrested on, and remains a person of interest for the RCMP in the McCann case.
“[That] means we believe he has some information or some involvement in the McCann investigation. How that fits in has yet to be determined,” Webb said. “We’ve interviewed him at least once. … If they haven’t already, they will be going back to speak to him again.”
http://www.saintcitynews.com/article/20100730/STALBERT0101/307309982/-1/stalbert/rcmp-still-optimistic-couple-will-be-found
BBM
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 02:40 PM
Thanks RubyRed. Is it the Petro-Can gas station? It seems different in the video.
Ah, it wouldn't be the first time LE has shown a video that was taken from a different location than stated. I don't suppose anyone from around Edson could tell us if it looks familiar?
Thinking back to another board about another case, where someone :innocent: pointed out that the scenery in the background didn't belong to the big box hardware store that LE had claimed. And then someone here at WS caught on.
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 02:46 PM
I wonder whether the Mccann's would have had any medications with them that would have interested an addict, I am thinking benzos or opiates?
The old couple worry me so much, I so hoped for a happy ending
Or maybe someone hoped they did. I stumbled into an oxy robbery at the local pharmacy the other day.
It seems unlikely to me that Mr. McCann would be able to drive if he were taking those kinds of meds. I think the RV was taken for other purposes, possibly even for simple transportation. That kind of shock and stress would be hard on a young person, let alone someone who is elderly.
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 03:41 PM
I personally don't think that is something we can assume as to if he would opt for an automatic in retirement. My husband drives truck, and I am sure if he retires and buys an RV it would be standard as well, give him that "driving a big truck" feeling again!!
I'm not assuming either way. I put it out there as an alternate possibility given we simply don't know.
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 04:14 PM
I wonder whether the Mccann's would have had any medications with them that would have interested an addict, I am thinking benzos or opiates?
The old couple worry me so much, I so hoped for a happy ending
Mobile meth lab perhaps?? There are travelling meth labs being run out of the trunks of cars these days, and there has been the odd case where RVs have been used. A couple of years ago, there was one that exploded in a Walmart parking lot in the US.
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 04:38 PM
Very curious to say the least:
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Security+video+Lyle+McCann+released/3278636/story.html
People here seem to think the shiny hubcaps show reflections of people talking. There seem to be various editions of those videos. Do you think certain things were edited out?
flipflop
07-30-2010, 05:18 PM
Very curious to say the least:
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Security+video+Lyle+McCann+released/3278636/story.html
People here seem to think the shiny hubcaps show reflections of people talking. There seem to be various editions of those videos. Do you think certain things were edited out?
I also wonder what Mr McCann is doing after he puts the nozzle into his RV gas tank, he walks past the pump...is he talking to someone or did something catch his interest????
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 05:48 PM
From what I can tell through googling and going back through Thread 1, it seems the first surveillance video was released to the public July 15. In a press release July 16, LE announced Vader as a POI, and the SUV was found later that day. Hopefully TV showed up in some of the various surveillance videos, and that's why LE was able to announce him as a POI on the 16th before the SUV was located.
nickle couch
07-30-2010, 06:23 PM
Thank you so much for this interesting post. I'm not noticing any rocking around in the RV in the video. The RV is definitely backing up about 4 feet. Is it possible that the RV has standard transmission? I do not know anything about RV's at all and would need your expert opinion on this. Mr. McCann was an expert driver and he would likely NOT back up his RV with a vehicle hitched on it. If the RV was standard, wouldn't it roll back a bit, and especially roll back more if an inexperienced driver tried to drive it? Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/user/CTVnewsEdmonton#p/u/3/XuuGkD7kXqU
The more I look at the video, I don't think he is backing up, he is letting it roll, if it's a standard, that's the only way that makes sense, and then it snaps into gear. It's either/or, it's a standard and it rolls back and snaps into gear, or he backs up 4 feet for no reason whatsoever, but the transition from backward to forward is more of a snap, if he was backing up, he would have to back up/stop/put into forward, and that doesn't happen. Also, whoever is driving pulls right out and carves it right. Someone driving a big rig would not cut that much of an angle, I don't think, especially while towing another vehicle. JMO
Virtually all motorhomes I know of, (I have owned 4 and my family owns 3 others) all have automatic transmissions. I don't know of a single brand that has an option to order a standard (manual) tranny. Especially diesel motorhomes.
The McCanns motorhome is a 1999 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager and it has a 275hp ISB Cummins Diesel Engine and an Allison automatic electronic transmission.
We have the same tranny in our motorhome too and it has a push button pad on the drivers side arm rest, and has to go right in R or D by pressing a button and the motorhome will only go in the direction of the gear selected, no rolling.
Also, any seasoned RVer (and truckdriver) would not swing away from the pumps too sharply as the back end swings in the opposite direction and could knock off a pump, pole or trash barrel. We take longer wider turns and are always careful of where our back end is in addition to where our front end is going.
I would think with all the years of driving experience of trucks and their motorhome, Mr. McCann would be very aware of this and drive accordingly.
I would think someone would be questioning this at the RCMP end of the investigation? I wonder if he was even driving the rig as it left the gas station?
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 06:35 PM
Thanks RubyRed. Is it the Petro-Can gas station? It seems different in the video.
No it isn't the Petro. From what I can gather it is the Superstore Gas Bar in St. Albert. It seems there are several stations in that area, If I have the address correct. I am going to double check in a bit.
http://www.edmontongasprices.com/Superstore_Gas_Stations/St_Albert/74307/index.aspx
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 07:35 PM
Virtually all motorhomes I know of, (I have owned 4 and my family owns 3 others) all have automatic transmissions. I don't know of a single brand that has an option to order a standard (manual) tranny. Especially diesel motorhomes.
The McCanns motorhome is a 1999 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager and it has a 275hp ISB Cummins Diesel Engine and an Allison automatic electronic transmission.
We have the same tranny in our motorhome too and it has a push button pad on the drivers side arm rest, and has to go right in R or D by pressing a button and the motorhome will only go in the direction of the gear selected, no rolling.
Also, any seasoned RVer (and truckdriver) would not swing away from the pumps too sharply as the back end swings in the opposite direction and could knock off a pump, pole or trash barrel. We take longer wider turns and are always careful of where our back end is in addition to where our front end is going.
I would think with all the years of driving experience of trucks and their motorhome, Mr. McCann would be very aware of this and drive accordingly.
I would think someone would be questioning this at the RCMP end of the investigation? I wonder if he was even driving the rig as it left the gas station?
BBM. My guess is that he wasn't driving the RV when it left that station. My guess is that a POI was in the driver's seat, and that LE has it on video.
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 07:40 PM
Mobile meth lab perhaps?? There are travelling meth labs being run out of the trunks of cars these days, and there has been the odd case where RVs have been used. A couple of years ago, there was one that exploded in a Walmart parking lot in the US.
Could be. I've always been wary of parking or walking near those RVs parked in Walmart parking lots. Happy campers? I think not, but that's because there's TMI on that "People of Walmart" site. Of course, I've also seen dial-a-dopers doing deals in the parking lot of the S-grocery chain. Some urbanites sure aren't buying a litre of milk at the store.
Hazel
07-30-2010, 07:51 PM
If there was someone parked in front of them wouldn't they have to back up a bit and pull a hard right to get out? Too bad there isn't a better video view of this gas station. I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
You are right Thyme, the camera is not that secure, and it shakes a bit with the wind.
The camera is mounted on the ceiling structure, and while looking at the video, if you focus on the top left hand corner, the yellow sign also moves.
Here is the Google street view of the Superstore Gas Station. I tried to find the pumps that Mr. McCann used.
Click here to view the Superstore Gas Station. Image takes a while to load completely:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?layer=c&cbll=53.540378,-113.616914&cbp=12,260.36,,2,1.91&cid=11639033609058433515&q=St.+Albert+Superstore+Gas+Bar&ved=0CEQQ2wU&ei=0WFTTOyGNqTwMPuVuFo&ie=UTF8&hq=St.+Albert+Superstore+Gas+Bar&hnear=&ll=53.540244,-113.616915&spn=0.006146,0.013776&t=h&z=16&panoid=ipYVl4nCkEleITIJOFQ93A
PS: Yay, the link works just fine, though I'm not 100% sure that is the same pump Mr.McCann used, only because I cannot see the yellow sign.
Question for the RVers here: would the McCanns RV use Diesel? There is a Diesel sign really close to those pumps.
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 08:13 PM
You are right Thyme, the camera is not that secure, and it shakes a bit with the wind.
The camera is mounted on the ceiling structure, and while looking at the video, if you focus on the top left hand corner, the yellow sign also moves.
Here is the Google street view of the Superstore Gas Station. I tried to find the pumps that Mr. McCann used.
Click here to view the Superstore Gas Station. Image takes a while to load completely:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?layer=c&cbll=53.540378,-113.616914&cbp=12,260.36,,2,1.91&cid=11639033609058433515&q=St.+Albert+Superstore+Gas+Bar&ved=0CEQQ2wU&ei=0WFTTOyGNqTwMPuVuFo&ie=UTF8&hq=St.+Albert+Superstore+Gas+Bar&hnear=&ll=53.540244,-113.616915&spn=0.006146,0.013776&t=h&z=16&panoid=ipYVl4nCkEleITIJOFQ93A
PS: Yay, the link works just fine, though I'm not 100% sure that is the same pump Mr.McCann used, only because I cannot see the yellow sign.
Question for the RVers here: would the McCanns RV use Diesel? There is a Diesel sign really close to those pumps.
According to the sign, the gas bar underwent renovations after Google visited. It's on a busy road, but judging by the number of people with cell phones glued to their ears, I doubt anyone looks too closely. Maybe security cams should be replaced with Google Streets cams. I can see everything in the cab of one vehicle.
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 08:13 PM
I thought the gas station was on St. Albert Trail ? The one on your map is 171 Street Northwest, Edmonton, AB .
Summersolstice
07-30-2010, 08:18 PM
I thought the gas station was on St. Albert Trail ? The one on your map is 171 Street Northwest, Edmonton, AB .
The one at 101 St. Albert Trail does not come into focus for me. Are you able to get a clear satellite image?
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 08:23 PM
The one at 101 St. Albert Trail does not come into focus for me. Are you able to get a clear satellite image?
This is the map that global put out, click on street view, should give a clear view that way.
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=109853917809976877355.00048b5d99343df923a0c&source=embed&ll=53.621882,-113.610188&spn=0.003913,0.006813&z=17&iwloc=00048b5daa88a3a951b63
Hazel
07-30-2010, 09:00 PM
This is the map that global put out, click on street view, should give a clear view that way.
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=109853917809976877355.00048b5d99343df923a0c&source=embed&ll=53.621882,-113.610188&spn=0.003913,0.006813&z=17&iwloc=00048b5daa88a3a951b63
Ruby it is JMHO, but I believe the link I posted looks a lot more like it, though it is not in St. Albert, but south of Highway 16 in Edmonton.
IMO, the one Global put up is not the Superstore Gas Station we are seeing on the video (like Thyme already noted). The one on your link (GlobalTV) says Petro Canada, and I cannot see those yellow poles that we see really close to Mr. McCann in the video.
Maybe MrMcCann liked that one in Edmonton for some reason (cheaper gas maybe?) or there is another Superstore Gas Bar in Albert that doesn't show in Google search?
Hazel
07-30-2010, 09:05 PM
The one at 101 St. Albert Trail does not come into focus for me. Are you able to get a clear satellite image?
If you still cannot see it in the link Ruby just posted for you, try this other link:
http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=109853917809976877355.00048b5d99343df923a0c&source=embed&ll=53.622487,-113.610188&spn=0.002902,0.006888&z=17&layer=c&cbll=53.62199,-113.610413&panoid=PPheWZ3IhsAEScDX4tAUsw&cbp=12,9.33,,2,1.97
RubyRed
07-30-2010, 09:14 PM
Ruby it is JMHO, but I believe the link I posted looks a lot more like it, though it is not in St. Albert, but south of Highway 16 in Edmonton.
IMO, the one Global put up is not the Superstore Gas Station we are seeing on the video (like Thyme already noted). The one on your link (GlobalTV) says Petro Canada, and I cannot see those yellow poles that we see really close to Mr. McCann in the video.
Maybe MrMcCann liked that one in Edmonton for some reason (cheaper gas maybe?) or there is another Superstore Gas Bar in Albert that doesn't show in Google search?
No it isn't the Petro. That map just takes you to the road it is on. There is a Superstore Gas Station on the same road.
ETA, I'm not able to get a street view, probably wasn't there when they did the google thing but according to LE they went to the one in St. Albert.
Alberta RCMP released security video taken at a Superstore Gas Bar in St. Albert
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/15/edmonton-missing-couple-rcmp.html#ixzz0vDfShC00
http://www.edmontongasprices.com/Superstore_Gas_Stations/index.aspx
Hazel
07-30-2010, 09:45 PM
No it isn't the Petro. That map just takes you to the road it is on. There is a Superstore Gas Station on the same road.
ETA, I'm not able to get a street view, probably wasn't there when they did the google thing but according to LE they went to the one in St. Albert.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/07/15/edmonton-missing-couple-rcmp.html#ixzz0vDfShC00
http://www.edmontongasprices.com/Superstore_Gas_Stations/index.aspx
Ruby, I think I found it!
Try this link:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=15611+St+Albert+Trail,+Saint+Albert,+AB&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=27.382728,56.425781&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=15611+St+Albert+Trail,+St+Albert,+Division+N o.+11,+Alberta+T6V+1K1&ll=53.620056,-113.606358&spn=0.012269,0.027552&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.620239,-113.606754&panoid=_aEW4lqJxPhxpM4gYFuYQg&cbp=12,54.11,,2,3.4
If you go around, there is a Superstore in the background!!!
sillybilly
07-30-2010, 10:44 PM
Based on the entrance to that station, I would think that Mr. McCann would have pulled into either of the 2 bays on our left. Couldn't help but notice that this one and the other one we were looking at earlier both have liquor stores beside them.
Summersolstice
07-31-2010, 12:30 AM
Based on the entrance to that station, I would think that Mr. McCann would have pulled into either of the 2 bays on our left. Couldn't help but notice that this one and the other one we were looking at earlier both have liquor stores beside them.
I think that's pretty typical for this chain in Alberta.
Thyme
07-31-2010, 02:38 AM
Wasn't there something mentioned earlier regarding the gas station, that the outside bay was where large trucks, motor homes etc. had to gas up? The road out of there looks rather narrow to me, leaving not much room to turn with a large rig. Perhaps just the angle of the google view.
Hazel
07-31-2010, 04:04 AM
Wasn't there something mentioned earlier regarding the gas station, that the outside bay was where large trucks, motor homes etc. had to gas up? The road out of there looks rather narrow to me, leaving not much room to turn with a large rig. Perhaps just the angle of the google view.
Here is another angle Thyme. The white pole is there, as well as the yellow post, but cannot see the green at the bottom in the video.
St.Albert SS gas: http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=15611+St+Albert+Trail,+Saint+Albert,+AB&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=27.382728,56.425781&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=15611+St+Albert+Trail,+St+Albert,+Division+N o.+11,+Alberta+T6V+1K1&t=h&layer=c&cbll=53.62068,-113.607051&panoid=pio9hSUKVWARHk0SFuhPzQ&cbp=12,113.5,,1,2.83&ll=53.620692,-113.607044&spn=0.005269,0.027552&z=15
Video: http://www.youtube.com/user/CTVnewsEdmonton#p/u/3/XuuGkD7kXqU
nickle couch
07-31-2010, 07:17 AM
Based on the entrance to that station, I would think that Mr. McCann would have pulled into either of the 2 bays on our left. Couldn't help but notice that this one and the other one we were looking at earlier both have liquor stores beside them.
Please remember, the motorhome is a diesel, they have to pull up to diesel pumps, not gasoline.
I can not see the video as I am on a slow aircard connection, so I can not see what you guys are looking at.
Hazel
07-31-2010, 08:51 AM
Please remember, the motorhome is a diesel, they have to pull up to diesel pumps, not gasoline.
I can not see the video as I am on a slow aircard connection, so I can not see what you guys are looking at.
This is all we can see of the gas station from the 4 video clips. Hope this helps :) If you want to see more of MrMcCann or when the RV backs up, let me know.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10340&stc=1&d=1280580456
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10341&stc=1&d=1280580485
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10342&stc=1&d=1280580515
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10343&stc=1&d=1280580539
Hazel
08-01-2010, 12:00 AM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10348&stc=1&d=1280634898
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10349&stc=1&d=1280634923
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10350&stc=1&d=1280634943
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10351&stc=1&d=1280634970
Red Arrows: video surveillance cameras ??
Red Circle: yellow sign (Cars,Trucks,Vans) ??
LayzeeDayzee
08-01-2010, 12:12 AM
Based on the pics you've posted, Hazel, it appears that there's not a lot of distance between that pump and the curb across from it. So in the videos of the McCanns where you see them backing up the RV then driving forward, one might suspect that with an RV that length, one might HAVE to back up a little and crank the wheel to the right to be able to turn out of there -- so that might explain the backing up?
Based on the pics you've posted, Hazel, it appears that there's not a lot of distance between that pump and the curb across from it. So in the videos of the McCanns where you see them backing up the RV then driving forward, one might suspect that with an RV that length, one might HAVE to back up a little and crank the wheel to the right to be able to turn out of there -- so that might explain the backing up?
BBM
Nice job of finding the gas station Hazel! I think you're right.
Here's the approximate distance according to Google Earth (screen grab):
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10367&stc=1&d=1280675080
I wonder if he was pulled far enough out to block the only exit. He might have pizzed someone off...
Just a thought.
It certainly is an odd choice of gas stations for that size of camper.
MOO.
LayzeeDayzee
08-01-2010, 12:25 PM
BBM
Nice job of finding the gas station Hazel! I think you're right.
Here's the approximate distance according to Google Earth (screen grab):
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=10367&stc=1&d=1280675080
I wonder if he was pulled far enough out to block the only exit. He might have pizzed someone off...
Just a thought.
It certainly is an odd choice of gas stations for that size of camper.
MOO.
Actually, it's an odd choice with regard to where all of the pumps are located in terms of the last pump (for trucks, RVs, buses, etc) having so little room to get in and out -- considering there's so much Superstore parking lot on the other side of the pumps.
Most gas stations that have a pump designated for large/long vehicles (RVs, trucks, etc).....they're situatued such that the truck or RV can easily "pull through" (kind of like an RV site). Appears at this Superstore (and not sure if the layout at other ones is similar?), the set-up is rather non-RV friendly. I can just see my own Dad with his RV that's the same size/length of the McCanns, with their small traveling car towed behind it, cursing a bit and about the lack of room and layout (and he's an ex trucker as well so no stranger to maneuvering a very long load).
nickle couch
08-01-2010, 02:57 PM
Based on the pics you've posted, Hazel, it appears that there's not a lot of distance between that pump and the curb across from it. So in the videos of the McCanns where you see them backing up the RV then driving forward, one might suspect that with an RV that length, one might HAVE to back up a little and crank the wheel to the right to be able to turn out of there -- so that might explain the backing up?
But my point was that you should NEVER back up with a towbar setup on a motorhome, and any experienced RV driver with a toad setup (towed car) would know that. I would think with all their years of RVing and truck driving, Mr. McCann would shudder to think of backing up with a toad attached. It can damage the towbar, and void the warrenty and allow the towed car to break loose and be a danger to everyone on the road.
The proper (and safe) procedure to follow when hemmed in at a place like they were at the gas station, would be to get out, remove the pins in the tow bar, unhook, and fold the bar up. Start the SUV, drive it over to another place and drive the motorhome out of the way of the pumps, rehook the SUV and go back on the road.
This is from the Roadmaster tow bar website:
• Never back up the motorhome with the towed vehicle still attached.
http://www.roadmasterinc.com/products/towbars/towing_safe.html
and I tried to download the pdf file from Roadmaster but unsuccessful on my air card signal where we are camping right now. Here is the link, I am sure in the operating instructions it will tell you to NEVER back up.
http://www.roadmasterinc.com/pdf/85-2283-09.pdf
That is the reason why I don't think Mr. McCann would have been driving at that point. Any motorhome driving RVer with toad experience would see a glaring red flag if he backed up 8 or 9 feet like that.
LayzeeDayzee
08-01-2010, 06:17 PM
Nickle Couch -- are you certain that the type of tow bar on the McCann's SUV was a Roadmaster tow bar? I've never read in any news article, the type of tow bar being specified. Are all tow bars such that you must not back up with a vehicle attached? Might there be some types that are designed in such a way that backing up w/ vehicle attached would not be an issue?
nickle couch
08-01-2010, 10:40 PM
Nickle Couch -- are you certain that the type of tow bar on the McCann's SUV was a Roadmaster tow bar? I've never read in any news article, the type of tow bar being specified. Are all tow bars such that you must not back up with a vehicle attached? Might there be some types that are designed in such a way that backing up w/ vehicle attached would not be an issue?
Good questions...
On page three of this thread with the photos, the pictured tow bar is black and shaped just like our Roadmaster Falcon towbar setup. Or it could be the Roadmaster Stowmaster. But ANY brand towbar mechanism is not to be backed up. These are expensive devices, running in the $500-1,000 range for just the tow bar. No matter what the brand. A towbar rated to tow an SUV is an expensive piece of complicated equipment and easily damaged and voids the warranty if backed up. Tow bars are only designed to pull in a forward motion, and not pushed in the backwards motion. These are not like a simple hitch and trailer set up with a tongue and ball.
I use the name *toad* not as a misspelling, but as a common RV term for a towed car on a towbar.
Some foolhardy novice RVers might try backing up a toad vehicle a few inches or feet, but later find out they ruined the tow bar, or even strained the steering mechanism of their car and damaged it by doing so.
(Perhaps why the car was seen driving *slowly* around in some of the posts mentioning that on the previous thread?)
To help the non-RVers reading this: Think of trying to back up a kid's toy wagon by pushing backwards on the handle, the wheels will not track straight back, it will swivel and kink and *jackknife*
It's not like backing up a straight tow trailer or boat, which have fixed axles. In contrast, a toad car has the swiveling front axle at the tires and they do not track straight backwards when being pushed. Thus the dangers and damages to the steering when trying to attempt this. And the towbar companies will not take any responsiblity for someone ruining their tow bar or car from backing up.
Hope that helps clarify my thoughts on why Mr. McCann might not have been the one driving that rig away from the pumps. The hard cut to the right also allows for dangerous back swing motion on the left rear side too. Another questionable move for an experienced trucker/RVer.
Summersolstice
08-01-2010, 11:53 PM
Good questions...
On page three of this thread with the photos, the pictured tow bar is black and shaped just like our Roadmaster Falcon towbar setup. Or it could be the Roadmaster Stowmaster. But ANY brand towbar mechanism is not to be backed up. These are expensive devices, running in the $500-1,000 range for just the tow bar. No matter what the brand. A towbar rated to tow an SUV is an expensive piece of complicated equipment and easily damaged and voids the warranty if backed up. Tow bars are only designed to pull in a forward motion, and not pushed in the backwards motion. These are not like a simple hitch and trailer set up with a tongue and ball.
I use the name *toad* not as a misspelling, but as a common RV term for a towed car on a towbar.
Some foolhardy novice RVers might try backing up a toad vehicle a few inches or feet, but later find out they ruined the tow bar, or even strained the steering mechanism of their car and damaged it by doing so.
(Perhaps why the car was seen driving *slowly* around in some of the posts mentioning that on the previous thread?)
To help the non-RVers reading this: Think of trying to back up a kid's toy wagon by pushing backwards on the handle, the wheels will not track straight back, it will swivel and kink and *jackknife*
It's not like backing up a straight tow trailer or boat, which have fixed axles. In contrast, a toad car has the swiveling front axle at the tires and they do not track straight backwards when being pushed. Thus the dangers and damages to the steering when trying to attempt this. And the towbar companies will not take any responsiblity for someone ruining their tow bar or car from backing up.
Hope that helps clarify my thoughts on why Mr. McCann might not have been the one driving that rig away from the pumps. The hard cut to the right also allows for dangerous back swing motion on the left rear side too. Another questionable move for an experienced trucker/RVer.
Hmmm. Someone with a damaged tow bar might have to ditch the SUV somewhere, and maybe go back and pick it up later. Or they might have to stop along the way to find a mechanic, say, at Niton Junction truck stop.
sillybilly
08-02-2010, 01:15 PM
The similarities between the McCanns' disappearance and that of Jean Roelfsema are significant.
Jean Roelfsema disappeared in 2007. She had last used her Visa card at a gas station in Evansburg, AB, approx. 30 miles east of Niton Junction.
Here's a tidbit about Jeannie that I had not seen before:
from: http://www.pentictonherald.ca/stories_local.php?id=71608
Roelfsema noted his mother had never liked to rush home, preferring instead to make stops along the way or camp out. It was a travel style she‘d become accustomed to when she and her late husband went on trips.
Jean was a senior; she left Edmonton to return to her Summerland home in the Okanagan area of BC; she was last known to have been in Evansburg, AB, and was known to camp out on her trips.
The McCanns were seniors; they left Edmonton to travel to BC, apparently planning to travel through the Okanagan area enroute to Chilliwack; their RV and SUV were found in areas close to Niton Junction, AB
TV has lived in or has relatives in Edmonton, Niton Junction and Summerland, BC.
Wondergirl
08-03-2010, 01:11 PM
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ImageShrinker?http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100801/430_mccann_poster2.jpg,430,241
Bret McCann is seen here putting up a poster inside the window of a St. Albert business.
The family is hoping to circulate posters and flyers with information about the McCann's disappearance between west Edmonton, Spruce Grove, and Edson.
"The main accomplishment is finding our aunt and uncle, bottom line, finding them safe and bringing them home," said family member Stephen Carrol.
About two dozen volunteers joined the family in their efforts.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100801/EDM_mccannsearch_100801/20100801/?hub=EdmontonHome
Wondergirl
08-03-2010, 01:21 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs190.snc4/37862_1536704786339_1496433013_1358887_627825_n.jp g
Here is a close-up of the poster. (The media should have a clickable, printable version of this along with their story, if you ask me.)
Wondergirl
08-03-2010, 02:28 PM
While I really hope these Rafters are found alive, I also hope that the increase of searchers in the Edson area, uncover something with regards to the McCann's.
Mounties are conducting a ground and air search for three people who were on a raft on a west-central Alberta river after dark.
Joan Lenahan, caretaker of Willmore Park in Edson, says some people came to the gates last night looking for help.
They told her that a group set out on rafts Monday afternoon on the McLeod River near Robb, about 230 kilometres west of Edmonton, intending to arrive at the park in Edson a few hours later.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/three-rafters-missing-on-dark-river-ride-in-alberta/article1660504/
Wondergirl
08-03-2010, 02:37 PM
From what I can tell through googling and going back through Thread 1, it seems the first surveillance video was released to the public July 15. In a press release July 16, LE announced Vader as a POI, and the SUV was found later that day. Hopefully TV showed up in some of the various surveillance videos, and that's why LE was able to announce him as a POI on the 16th before the SUV was located.
Thanks for looking at the timeline on that, Sillybilly. I think you must be right, the surveillance video places TV at the gas stations that day. The timing of everything, looking back now, is too coincidental to be seperate, unrelated events.
Hazel
08-03-2010, 02:44 PM
Here is a close-up of the poster. (The media should have a clickable, printable version of this along with their story, if you ask me.)
Here is the direct link for the printable version (pdf file).
PRINTATBLE POSTER: http://www.missingpersonsalert.yolasite.com/resources/Lyle and Marie McCann 6a.pdf
(or click on image below)
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs627.ash1/27548_134245599942161_6934_n.jpg (http://www.missingpersonsalert.yolasite.com/resources/Lyle and Marie McCann 6a.pdf)
http://www.missingpersonsalert.org/
Wondergirl
08-03-2010, 02:50 PM
Virtually all motorhomes I know of, (I have owned 4 and my family owns 3 others) all have automatic transmissions. I don't know of a single brand that has an option to order a standard (manual) tranny. Especially diesel motorhomes.
The McCanns motorhome is a 1999 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager and it has a 275hp ISB Cummins Diesel Engine and an Allison automatic electronic transmission.
We have the same tranny in our motorhome too and it has a push button pad on the drivers side arm rest, and has to go right in R or D by pressing a button and the motorhome will only go in the direction of the gear selected, no rolling.
Also, any seasoned RVer (and truckdriver) would not swing away from the pumps too sharply as the back end swings in the opposite direction and could knock off a pump, pole or trash barrel. We take longer wider turns and are always careful of where our back end is in addition to where our front end is going.
I would think with all the years of driving experience of trucks and their motorhome, Mr. McCann would be very aware of this and drive accordingly.
I would think someone would be questioning this at the RCMP end of the investigation? I wonder if he was even driving the rig as it left the gas station?
Thanks for you input on the RV stuff, it is very important, I think. After watching the video that was linked here, since you brought up the point regarding the RV backing up, I immediately thought of a few things (relevant or not? dunno).
-Why did LE release THAT video? Mr.McCann isn't in it at all. It seems a strange bit of video to release
-The RV must be a standard transmission. I was suprised to learn from you that it was not likely. This makes the strange "backing up" of the RV, even odder.
-Someone observed that the RV carved right out, away from the pumps (after backing up). It definitely appeared to do that in the video, and there is no way that a veteran driver would pull out that way. No way.
So, while I always felt like it was very unlikely that the McCann's RV was boarded right in the city like that, at the very beginning of their trip, I do wonder if indeed it was Mr.McCann driving OR if Mr.McCann wasn't trying to give LE a signal that something was amiss (since he would know that his family would recognize that was not his normal driving behaviour).
sillybilly
08-03-2010, 03:01 PM
I'm wondering if LE has used dogs to thoroughly search the properties belonging to some of Vader's buddies.
Hazel
08-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Thanks for you input on the RV stuff, it is very important, I think. After watching the video that was linked here, since you brought up the point regarding the RV backing up, I immediately thought of a few things (relevant or not? dunno).
-Why did LE release THAT video? Mr.McCann isn't in it at all. It seems a strange bit of video to release
-The RV must be a standard transmission. I was suprised to learn from you that it was not likely. This makes the strange "backing up" of the RV, even odder.
-Someone observed that the RV carved right out, away from the pumps (after backing up). It definitely appeared to do that in the video, and there is no way that a veteran driver would pull out that way. No way.
So, while I always felt like it was very unlikely that the McCann's RV was boarded right in the city like that, at the very beginning of their trip, I do wonder if indeed it was Mr.McCann driving OR if Mr.McCann wasn't trying to give LE a signal that something was amiss (since he would know that his family would recognize that was not his normal driving behaviour).
Good points Sillybilly and WondergirlI!
I have also been thinking about the McCanns' cellphone. Did Mr. McCann use to carry the cellphone with him at all times ... in his pocket? Were they taken over so fast that none of them was able to turn it ON and dial 911? This makes me think there could have been more than one perp :waitasec:
Or did they keep the cellphone in a hard to reach place, like the glove compartment?
sillybilly
08-03-2010, 04:18 PM
... Were they taken over so fast that none of them was able to turn it ON and dial 911? This makes me think there could have been more than one perp ...
Mr. McCann paid for the gas at the pump, but we don't know if he went into the station to purchase something else. If the perp jumped in the RV while Mr. McCann was in the store, he could easily have held a weapon on Mrs. McCann. With his wife's safety at stake, Mr. McCann would have done anything the perp wanted at that point ... although it would not be his normal driving behaviour, maybe he drove erratically away from the pumps because he was ordered to, OR the backing up and fast forward could have been intended as a signal that something was wrong.
nickle couch
08-03-2010, 04:33 PM
Good points Sillybilly and WondergirlI!
I have also been thinking about the McCanns' cellphone. Did Mr. McCann use to carry the cellphone with him at all times ... in his pocket? Were they taken over so fast that none of them was able to turn it ON and dial 911? This makes me think there could have been more than one perp :waitasec:
Or did they keep the cellphone in a hard to reach place, like the glove compartment?
Exactly,-- my folks (in their early 70's) and my inlaws (in their late 70's) both have cell phones but they keep them OFF and tucked away in gosh knows where and my folks don't even turn it on often enough to even know which button to push to do so without really examining the phone. I doubt if they could get it out, turn it on and dial 911 when in an emergency situation.
Heck, my mom don't even remember how to get messages off voice mail, even with my written instructions. So we stopped leaving them messages and wait for them to call us!
Both my folks and my inlaws travel in big diesel motorhomes too, and both tow vehicles behind, just like we do. Thus my interest in this case. I just shudder to think of the McCanns and how this could be my parents or inlaws in their very predicament.
Hazel
08-03-2010, 05:26 PM
Exactly,-- my folks (in their early 70's) and my inlaws (in their late 70's) both have cell phones but they keep them OFF and tucked away in gosh knows where and my folks don't even turn it on often enough to even know which button to push to do so without really examining the phone. I doubt if they could get it out, turn it on and dial 911 when in an emergency situation.
Heck, my mom don't even remember how to get messages off voice mail, even with my written instructions. So we stopped leaving them messages and wait for them to call us!
Both my folks and my inlaws travel in big diesel motorhomes too, and both tow vehicles behind, just like we do. Thus my interest in this case. I just shudder to think of the McCanns and how this could be my parents or inlaws in their very predicament.
ITA, that's exactly what I was thinking :( if they didn't use it that much, it wouldn't have been easy for them to place any call, specially in an emergency/stressful situation or if it was stored out of reach.
So sad they couldn't just at least dial 911 even if they couldn't talk, because that way LE could have tracked them down then, and the outcome could have been different.
I also agree with SB's theory that it is very likely Mrs. McCann was taken off guard first while alone in the RV, while Mr.McCann was either using the washrooms or paying in the store. I am still not 100 percent convinced this happened at this St. Albert gas station; could have happened later at a rest stop, IDK. Hopefully all other video cameras were working, and LE checked them all to see if there was any suspicious looking activity around the RV. Unfortunately, the RV itself would be blocking the view, since I guess the perp used the passenger side to gain access.
Also, we still don't know for sure if Mr.McCann used that last pump in the pictures I posted. That was the best side view from Google street view of the pumps, and that last one seems to be the best choice for the size of the RV and SUV, JMO.
After this horrible thing happened to the McCanns, I hope all people are going to be more cautious and take precautions to avoid something like this from ever happening again.
Getting seniors very familiar with how to use a cellphone and keeping it handy at all times. I think it would be a good idea to give each of them their own cellphone (just like teenagers do), and maybe asking them to call every now and then, while on the road.
Locking the RV every time one of them leaves the RV would be a good idea as well, JMHO.
sillybilly
08-03-2010, 06:46 PM
If, as alluded to, TV is the perp, I find his connection to Summerland to be of particular interest. Jeannie Roelfsema was returning to Summerland, the McCanns were planning on going through Okanagan, and TV's ex-wife still lives in Summerland. On his FB, TV indicated he lives in Summerland. I know the McCann relatives have said their parents would not pick up hitch-hikers, but I really have to wonder if they weren't approached for a ride to the Okanagan, and simply being nice folks, they may have thought "oh, what the heck ... we're going there anyway". Sometimes people simply do things that are out of character.
Re the cell phones, I agree with Hazel that seniors need to learn how to use these new-fangled contraptions ;). I have lived in remote and rural areas where the phones go down if the power goes out. A couple of years ago, I bought a relative an emergency phone with 2 accessory panic buttons that can be activated to call 911 or other designated numbers with a pre-recorded message in the event a person is incapacitated for whatever reason. It's just like "Life Alert", but you don't have a monthly plan. I ended up thinking it was such a great thing, I bought one for my own household.
Too bad someone doesn't come up with a similar system that can activate a cell phone with the push of one simple big button. Am going to look into that.
One security idea that I always feel the need to tell people about is their car alarm. Have that remote near you in your home, on your night table, etc. so you can activate your car alarm outside to draw attention to yourself and your home. Criminals don't like alarms that bring heat on them.
and probably the biggest thing to remember ...
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow yourself to be taken to Location B where your are now under the perp's control. Put up the fight of your life at Location A because the perp likely doesn't want to kill you. They want something from you, and chances are they will run like the wind at Location A when the situation spins out of their immediate control and before they have accomplished what they set out to do.
RubyRed
08-03-2010, 06:54 PM
If, as alluded to, TV is the perp, I find his connection to Summerland to be of particular interest. Jeannie Roelfsema was returning to Summerland, the McCanns were planning on going through Okanagan, and TV's ex-wife still lives in Summerland. On his FB, TV indicated he lives in Summerland. I know the McCann relatives have said their parents would not pick up hitch-hikers, but I really have to wonder if they weren't approached for a ride to the Okanagan, and simply being nice folks, they may have thought "oh, what the heck ... we're going there anyway". Sometimes people simply do things that are out of character.
Re the cell phones, I agree with Hazel that seniors need to learn how to use these new-fangled contraptions ;). I have lived in remote and rural areas where the phones go down if the power goes out. A couple of years ago, I bought a relative an emergency phone with 2 accessory panic buttons that can be activated to call 911 or other designated numbers with a pre-recorded message in the event a person is incapacitated for whatever reason. It's just like "Life Alert", but you don't have a monthly plan. I ended up thinking it was such a great thing, I bought one for my own household.
Too bad someone doesn't come up with a similar system that can activate a cell phone with the push of one simple big button. Am going to look into that.
One security idea that I always feel the need to tell people about is their car alarm. Have that remote near you in your home, on your night table, etc. so you can activate your car alarm outside to draw attention to yourself and your home. Criminals don't like alarms that bring heat on them.
and probably the biggest thing to remember ...
NEVER, NEVER, NEVER allow yourself to be taken to Location B where your are now under the perp's control. Put up the fight of your life at Location A because the perp likely doesn't want to kill you. They want something from you, and chances are they will run like the wind at Location A when the situation spins out of their immediate control and before they have accomplished what they set out to do.
bbm
This is extremely important. Most that get taken to a secondary location do not live to tell about it. Far better to take your chances at the initial point of abduction because if you don't you are not coming back.
memories
08-04-2010, 01:00 AM
The family of a missing St. Albert couple aims to attend the next court hearing for Travis Vader, who remains a person of interest in the case.
"I know my daughter hopes that if he sees us, it will shake some sort of human decency out of him. I'm not sure of that," said Bret McCann, son of missing couple Lyle and Marie McCann.
Vader is set to appear in Edmonton court on Aug. 10 on charges unrelated to the disappearance. His lawyer will speak to bail.
But police still have an interest in Vader.
"They're still thinking he has some information that's related to my parents," McCann said, recounting a recent conversation with police.
McCann said his family is encouraged by Mounties' commitment to finding their parents, but the weeks are taking their toll on the family's spirits.
"We're anxious. Time is going by here," said McCann. "They're not giving us any details, but we're still hanging off the statement last week that the investigation is proceeding favourably.
"They've assured us there are certain things they're doing that just take time to mature here."
Mounties have maintained the number of investigators on the case, said RCMP spokeswoman Doris Stapleton.
"Our investigators are still in Edson and they're still following up on tips," she said.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta/2010/08/03/14914146.html
Summersolstice
08-04-2010, 03:08 AM
Does anyone know the correct surname of the McCanns' daughter who was to have met them at Abbotsford? I've variously seen it spelled Holden and Holder. While I'm familiar with a "Holden" with connections to P.G. and Abbotsford, I would really like to know which name is correct.
sillybilly
08-04-2010, 05:17 AM
Does anyone know the correct surname of the McCanns' daughter who was to have met them at Abbotsford? I've variously seen it spelled Holden and Holder. While I'm familiar with a "Holden" with connections to P.G. and Abbotsford, I would really like to know which name is correct.
According to her FB page, it is Holder:
http://www.facebook.com/people/Trudy-Holder/100001362666017
Spyglass
08-04-2010, 08:51 AM
Good questions...
On page three of this thread with the photos, the pictured tow bar is black and shaped just like our Roadmaster Falcon towbar setup. Or it could be the Roadmaster Stowmaster. But ANY brand towbar mechanism is not to be backed up. These are expensive devices, running in the $500-1,000 range for just the tow bar. No matter what the brand. A towbar rated to tow an SUV is an expensive piece of complicated equipment and easily damaged and voids the warranty if backed up. Tow bars are only designed to pull in a forward motion, and not pushed in the backwards motion. These are not like a simple hitch and trailer set up with a tongue and ball.
I use the name *toad* not as a misspelling, but as a common RV term for a towed car on a towbar.
Some foolhardy novice RVers might try backing up a toad vehicle a few inches or feet, but later find out they ruined the tow bar, or even strained the steering mechanism of their car and damaged it by doing so.
(Perhaps why the car was seen driving *slowly* around in some of the posts mentioning that on the previous thread?) SNIPPED
If the towbar was damaged by backing, if not at the gas station, then later if it was backed again....would examination of the tow bar on the burned out RV show this?
nickle couch
08-04-2010, 10:24 AM
SNIPPED
If the towbar was damaged by backing, if not at the gas station, then later if it was backed again....would examination of the tow bar on the burned out RV show this?
Wow, good question. With all the heat from the fire, I would not know the reaction of the steel, rubber components and clips... or even the tow bar was still attached to the receiver on the motorhome and swivelled up out of the way or just dumped somewhere?
Summersolstice
08-04-2010, 10:44 AM
Wow, good question. With all the heat from the fire, I would not know the reaction of the steel, rubber components and clips... or even the tow bar was still attached to the receiver on the motorhome and swivelled up out of the way or just dumped somewhere?
I believe there are fire experts that can tell many things from a vehicle fire. I seem to recalll such a fire recently in Eganville, Ontario.Even the way the glass from an SUV is melted (or not melted) can mean certain things.
Strangely enough, even a Space Shuttle was analyzed right here in Canada at the NRC. Neutron beams can reveal details.
Wondergirl
08-04-2010, 11:06 AM
The police investigation continues, but McCann family members believe Vader knows something.
“I know that you’re a decent man and you have a family,” Bret McCann said. “Put yourself in our shoes and do the right thing.”
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/08/03/ed-mccann-month.html#ixzz0veLbt0wZ
Summersolstice
08-04-2010, 04:17 PM
I wonder if there is some other motive than robbery for the McCanns' disappearance, something we have not considered here. Could it be something like the "grandson scam"?
http://www2.canada.com/windsorstar/news/story.html?id=607206bc-584d-4ba2-a6b8-ef5c9b274b7d
Hazel
08-05-2010, 08:04 AM
Crime Stoppers issues McCann info plea
It's been almost a month since the burning SUV of a missing St. Albert couple was found in a wooded area near Edson.
And while there's been no sign of Lyle and Marie McCann, who disappeared on their way to a B.C. camping trip, their family isn't giving up the search.
Bret McCann, the couple's son, says a number of people in the Edson area are offering to help. "My sister is organizing a meeting for next week, with some people who are familiar with the area, to see if they can help us."
Bret adds they are in frequent contact with the RCMP regarding a possible large-scale public search in the area where the SUV was found.
Crime Stoppers has now stepped up to the plate, asking for `any piece of information'' that could lead police to the McCanns. (mb)
source: http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1261188
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ``````````````````````````````````````````````````
"We know that one person can make a difference," said the Crime Stopper release Wednesday.
"We request the public to provide any piece of information, regardless of how seemingly inconsequential it appears, as it might be the piece of the puzzle needed to help solve the investigation.
"And more importantly, help the McCann family."
The charitable organization is asking people with information to call Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-8477 (TIPS) or online at www.crimestoppers.ab.ca.
The group says it guarantees anonymity to anyone who calls and the information may qualify the caller for a reward of up to $2,000.
Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20100805/crimestoppers-mccann-100805/
Patience
08-06-2010, 06:56 PM
Did we ever come to a conclusion about the green suv spotted speeding away from the Morena valley in the Norma Lopez homicide? Could it be possible that there is a connection? I fear that the human remains found in New Mexico could have something to do with the missing Mccann couple. I hope I am way off, but where could they be?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iMs5HlE9nZOhHQsEeKLq0-3VIZ2wD9HDG4801
Charred human remains found on New Mexico ranch
Jaxson
08-06-2010, 06:58 PM
Did we ever come to a conclusion about the green suv spotted speeding away from the Morena valley in the Norma Lopez homicide? Could it be possible that there is a connection? I fear that the human remains found in New Mexico could have something to do with the missing Mccann couple. I hope I am way off, but where could they be?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iMs5HlE9nZOhHQsEeKLq0-3VIZ2wD9HDG4801
Charred human remains found on New Mexico ranch
My first thought also Patience. Could also be the same perp/mo but a different couple.
Patience
08-06-2010, 07:00 PM
There is a couple missing form that area as well, so who knows. My thoughts are with the Mccann family.
Hazel
08-06-2010, 07:08 PM
Did we ever come to a conclusion about the green suv spotted speeding away from the Morena valley in the Norma Lopez homicide? Could it be possible that there is a connection? I fear that the human remains found in New Mexico could have something to do with the missing Mccann couple. I hope I am way off, but where could they be?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iMs5HlE9nZOhHQsEeKLq0-3VIZ2wD9HDG4801
Charred human remains found on New Mexico ranch
Pair Believed To Be From Oklahoma Found Dead In N.M.
State police said the victims were believed to have left the Oklahoma City, Okla., area early Monday morning and to have traveled west towards New Mexico along Interstate 40. The victims were traveling in a white four-door 2008 Chevrolet pickup truck pulling a light-colored 32-foot travel trailer.
The travel trailer was found west of Santa Rosa and the truck was located at approximately 2:00 p.m. Wednesday, abandoned in a parking lot near Edith Boulevard and Osuna Road in Albuquerque, police said.
video & complete article at link: http://www.koco.com/r/24531871/detail.html
sillybilly
08-06-2010, 11:11 PM
Did we ever come to a conclusion about the green suv spotted speeding away from the Morena valley in the Norma Lopez homicide? Could it be possible that there is a connection?
<snip>
No conclusions Patience; still just curious coincidence.
sillybilly
08-07-2010, 01:23 AM
Project Kare has been notified, so hopefully this is not related to the McCanns:
"Human remains found in west Edmonton"
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/08/06/ed-human-remains-found.html
memories
08-07-2010, 10:54 AM
Also sounds like it's one person...
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opinion/blogs/Human+remains+found+west+Edmonton+least+years/3368256/story.html
Snoopster
08-08-2010, 09:28 AM
For those that haven't seen it, here is another very recent sad case of an older couple being killed while traveling in their camper after running into some nasty people.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111182
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110788
There were discussions earlier in the McCann threads as to whether the the McCanns could have been in the RV when it burned. Skeletal remains of this couple were found in the completely burned out hulk of their trailer in New Mexico.
http://www.koat.com/2010/0805/24531681_640X480.jpg
http://www.koat.com/news/24526915/detail.html
sillybilly
08-08-2010, 03:44 PM
Skeletal remains of this couple were found in the completely burned out hulk of their trailer in New Mexico.
Am wondering why the McCann RV was burned, but not the SUV. If one perp, it seems there was a distinction in the perp's mind between the two vehicles. This is a long shot, but am wondering if the ground beneath where the McCann RV was burned has been excavated to ensure nothing was buried underneath the charred wreckage.
sillybilly
08-09-2010, 02:13 PM
Vader in court in Evansburg today on charges unrelated to the McCanns' disappearance. He will appear again tomorrow in Barrhead on 12 other charges:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Travis+Vader+makes+court+appearance/3377253/story.html
nettie_82
08-09-2010, 02:58 PM
The person-of-interest in the case of a missing couple from St. Albert is facing a long list of charges unrelated to the case of the McCann's disappearance.
Travis Vader is answering to 16 charges in Evansburg, from driving while suspended, to obstructing a peace officer and possession of stolen property.
On Monday, Vader appeared briefly in an Evansburg courtroom via closed circuit TV.
Lyle and Marie McCann left for Chilliwack, B.C. on July 3rd and have not been seen or heard from since.
Police are still trying to piece together clues that may lead them to the missing couple.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100809/edm_vader_1000809/20100809/?hub=EdmontonHome
RubyRed
08-09-2010, 07:00 PM
Am wondering why the McCann RV was burned, but not the SUV. If one perp, it seems there was a distinction in the perp's mind between the two vehicles. This is a long shot, but am wondering if the ground beneath where the McCann RV was burned has been excavated to ensure nothing was buried underneath the charred wreckage.
I think the RV was burned because there was evidence of foul play in it. I still believe the McCanns' are in the vicinity of where the RV was found.
nettie_82
08-10-2010, 01:36 PM
McCanns disappointed Vader a no-show in Edmonton court
Family hoped to appeal to ‘person of interest’ to share information
The family of missing St. Albert couple Lyle and Marie McCann came to an Edmonton court Tuesday, hoping to see the Alberta man named a person of interest in the case.
But Travis Vader, who RCMP believe has information related the couple’s disappearance, was not in the courtroom. He is being held in custody and a lawyer appeared on his behalf for the brief court proceeding.
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/McCanns+disappointed+Vader+show+Edmonton+court/3381379/story.html#ixzz0wE3JcpwC
nettie_82
08-10-2010, 01:48 PM
Bret McCann, his wife, their daughter and their daughter’s husband had showed up for the scheduled provincial court appearance of Travis Vader, however the matter was adjourned because he was busy dealing with other charges in Barrhead via closed circuit television.
.
The McCann family also spoke about their support for the efforts of the Mounties, which they conceded does take a “leap of faith,” but said they are looking at accepting donations for a trust fund to expand the search.
Bret McCann said he was told “the investigation is on solid ground and proceeding well” during a meeting with RCMP on Monday.
“We took a lot of reassurance from that,” he said. “I really do have faith in the RCMP. They are working diligently on this and they have their A-Team on it.”
McCann said Mounties have not interviewed Vader again since when he was initially arrested and are waiting on further evidence, including forensic testing results.
Regarding the trust fund, which has been set up at TD Canada Trust under the name “Bret McCann in Trust,” he said the money could be used for further searches, a reward or the hiring of private investigators.
In a press release, the family said after their parents are found, any remaining funds would be donated to charity.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/08/10/14978881.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
BBM
memories
08-10-2010, 11:29 PM
Updated: Tue Aug. 10 2010 18:00:21
Police have conducted another search near a campground in the Edson area, as part of their investigation into the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
Yellow tape now surrounds the bush in the area near the Minnow Lake campground. The missing couple's burnt-out motor home was found at a remote site in the campground shortly after they were reported missing.
Tuesday afternoon, Brett McCann visited the area near where RCMP have been searching in his quest to learn more about the area in the event family members are allowed to proceed with their own search.
Also: A trust fund has been set up for anyone interested in making a donation to help with a future search. It is set up at TD Canada Trust under the name "Bret McCann in trust".
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100810/edm_vaderedmonton_100810/20100810/?hub=EdmontonHome
trigger
08-11-2010, 12:52 AM
I think the RV was burned because there was evidence of foul play in it. I still believe the McCanns' are in the vicinity of where the RV was found.
ITA. I think they are very near the RV.
IMO he showered and ate inside the RV before he set it on fire.
Praying they are found.
nettie_82
08-11-2010, 09:25 AM
Updated: Tue Aug. 10 2010 18:00:21
Police have conducted another search near a campground in the Edson area, as part of their investigation into the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
Yellow tape now surrounds the bush in the area near the Minnow Lake campground. The missing couple's burnt-out motor home was found at a remote site in the campground shortly after they were reported missing.
Tuesday afternoon, Brett McCann visited the area near where RCMP have been searching in his quest to learn more about the area in the event family members are allowed to proceed with their own search.
Also: A trust fund has been set up for anyone interested in making a donation to help with a future search. It is set up at TD Canada Trust under the name "Bret McCann in trust".
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100810/edm_vaderedmonton_100810/20100810/?hub=EdmontonHome
I wonder what has lead LE back to this area? A new tip? Something Vader has said? Something the forensic testing proved?
RubyRed
08-11-2010, 10:26 AM
RCMP conduct second probe of area as part of McCann investigation
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ImageShrinker?http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100810/430_mccann_100810.jpg,430,241
New police tape surrounds the Minnow Lake campground
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100810/edm_vaderedmonton_100810/20100810/?hub=EdmontonHome
nettie_82
08-12-2010, 12:43 PM
McCann family may launch private ground search
By RICHARD LIEBRECHT, EDMONTON SUN
Last Updated: August 11, 2010 5:47pm
The McCann family is laying the groundwork for a private search of the Edson region as their parents' missing persons case drags on.
Bret McCann and siblings met with about 30 people in Edson and area Tuesday afternoon. Some attended a large meeting, others were contacted individually.
"We met with people familiar with the area," said McCann. "We're just trying to network, establish contacts for the next stage if (a private search) ever does happen.
"It shows we're exploring all possible avenues and will leave no stones unturned."
Lyle and Marie McCann have been missing for more than a month.
RCMP continue to plug away at the case. Investigators are still based in Edson, said Doris Stapleton, RCMP spokeswoman.
Cops have told the McCanns to hold off on searching for their parents themselves.
See more at:
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/alberta/2010/08/11/14994491.html
lauriej said (sorry this is a quote dunno how to do it).i was camping in that area last weekend. i did see numerous posters all over. in addition to the dense bush , the highway along the mountains has the mountain on one side, and nothing but a guard rail on the other side. just a sheer long long way down on the other.if i was a criminal i would throw something / somebody down over there.
..the elevation in the edson/jasper area is 3000-4000 ft. depending where you are.
I can't see (i'm so sorry to say) the Mccanns near the RV burn site. Because they burnt it to destroy evidence. But an RV is clumsy also very noticable and hard to manouver, so it would need to be a quick dump, a ravine seems logical.
I live country but raised inner inner city, so if i see tracks tire or foot, well i just gotta know. I found the stolen car dump ground, the cops never have, I do walkabouts, cops do drive bys. And no i would never tell them cause they sure woulnd'nt thank me.
The McCann family have made a very wise move, they will (i hope) find their family.
It is wise of them to get personal with the comunity, my heart breaks for them.
flipflop
08-12-2010, 09:45 PM
lauriej said (sorry this is a quote dunno how to do it).i was camping in that area last weekend. i did see numerous posters all over. in addition to the dense bush , the highway along the mountains has the mountain on one side, and nothing but a guard rail on the other side. just a sheer long long way down on the other.if i was a criminal i would throw something / somebody down over there.
..the elevation in the edson/jasper area is 3000-4000 ft. depending where you are.
I can't see (i'm so sorry to say) the Mccanns near the RV burn site. Because they burnt it to destroy evidence. But an RV is clumsy also very noticable and hard to manouver, so it would need to be a quick dump, a ravine seems logical.
I live country but raised inner inner city, so if i see tracks tire or foot, well i just gotta know. I found the stolen car dump ground, the cops never have, I do walkabouts, cops do drive bys. And no i would never tell them cause they sure woulnd'nt thank me.The McCann family have made a very wise move, they will (i hope) find their family.
It is wise of them to get personal with the comunity, my heart breaks for them.
Im confused, you would never tell the cops what?????
There is little point in informing the police of dumped auto's or abandoned camps on logging roads out here because they are not interested. They don't take the information or check them out. Just like the Mccanns burnt RV, it was looked upon as nothing of interest to start with. If the RV had'nt burn't and just been abandoned who knows if police would ever of checked on it.
I hope and think the Mccann family is making a wise choice in going to the locals in the community. I really do wish them closure.
I live 20 minutes from Vancouver, so stuff stolen or people on the run from Van end up camping or dumping stuff on our back roads.
I don't disrepect the police, its just they don't seem to be interested in travelling the logging roads. Which in turn makes it an easy dumping ground.
sillybilly
08-14-2010, 12:48 AM
McCann family alerts Alberta hunters
1,000 flyers to be distributed in Edson area
By Ben Gelinas, edmontonjournal.com August 13, 2010 ...
EDMONTON — As hunting season looms, the family of Lyle and Marie McCann are asking hunters heading into the Edson-area bush to watch for signs of the missing St. Albert couple.
The McCanns have printed 1,000 special flyers with a detailed description of the clothing worn by the couple when they were last seen, heading west July 3 on Highway 16 ...
full article:
http://www.theprovince.com/news/McCann+family+alerts+Alberta+hunters/3396575/story.html
memories
08-15-2010, 11:55 PM
MissingPersonsAlert.orgAttention :
I am putting out a personal request through our network to
Help The McCann Family.
Do you have any contacts or friendships with any (celebrity entertainers )
or (highly visible public figure ) that can help in any of our awareness campaigns ?
Just a video clip assisting in getting the word out with
a public request for help ?
If so have them reach me at al@missingpersonsalert.org
Your help is needed.
This was posted on on Wednesday
http://www.facebook.com/pages/MissingPersonsAlertorg/320697157898?v=info#!/pages/MissingPersonsAlertorg/320697157898?v=wall
RubyRed
08-16-2010, 12:40 AM
Alberta hunters urged to take up McCann search
The owner of an outdoor supply store is asking hunters to take up the search for an Alberta couple who have been missing for six weeks.
Alton Hunter, who owns Ron's Outdoor Source for Sports in Edson, Alta., is handing out a flyer along with the hunting licences he sells that provides a detailed description of Lyle and Marie McCann, the St. Albert couple who disappeared six weeks ago while driving to British Columbia.
Hunter's store is not far from the area where the McCanns' burned-out motorhome was found and person of interest Travis Vader was arrested on unrelated charges.
Hunter says the upcoming hunting season provides a good opportunity to cover large, remote areas.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/08/14/calgary-hunters-seek-mcanns.html#ixzz0wjym8Y00
RubyRed
08-16-2010, 12:45 AM
McCann family going public for donations
The family of a missing St. Albert couple is asking the public for cash donations to compile a reward for anyone with information on the missing grandparents.
“Someone out there, somewhere, has information related to my parents,” said son Bret McCann.
Bret hopes the cash award will be incentive for people to begin reporting any information on the disappearance of his parents Lyle and Marie McCann were last seen July 3 before embarking on a road trip to B.C.
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmonton/2010/08/15/15032491.html
Lyle & Marie McCann Fund
http://missingpersonsalert.yolasite.com/lyle-and-marie-mccann-search-fund.php
Hazel
08-16-2010, 08:38 AM
Last Updated: August 16, 2010 5:08am
EDMONTON —
The McCanns’ disappearance hit too close to home for another Edmonton-area man and his family. Wayne Roelfsema says there are eery similarities between this case and the disappearance of his mom, Jean Roelfsema, nearly three years ago.
She vanished when driving from Edmonton to her home in Summerland, B.C.
Her body was found nearly a year later. “It’s sort of like deja vu,” said Wayne, 50.“It gives me a really creepy feeling,” said Jean’s daughter Margaret Mueller, 54.
Jean, 71, was travelling a similar route in October 2007 after visiting her family in Edmonton. She stopped in the Edson area to use her Visa card — and that was the last time she was seen alive.
Jean’s family spent the next two years frequently driving that stretch of Highway 16 — searching embankments for any sign of her.
In August 2008, a farmer found Jean’s body washed up on the shore line around the North Thompson River in B.C. An autopsy never confirmed a cause of death. however, drowning was ruled out, Wayne said.
The 1999 grey Dodge Caravan Jean was driving has never been found.Carrot Creek was a place Jean liked and often visited, said Wayne.
“There are connections here,” he said, adding the family still wants to get to the bottom of what happened.
“We do one day at a time.”
RCMP could not be reached for comment on Sunday.
Bret McCann, son of Lyle and Marie, the missing St. Albert couple, said he was aware of Jean’s disappearance, but hadn’t otherwise heard of any connections between the cases.
“Anything is possible,” McCann said. “But who knows for sure?”
RS&BBM
Full article: http://www.ottawasun.com/news/canada/2010/08/16/15035396.html
dutchdelight
08-16-2010, 03:41 PM
The family will hold a press conference this afternoon in St. Albert to announce plans for a fund raising campaign to offer cash rewards for tips .
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/McCann+family+raise+cash+tips/3404504/story.html
Hopefully a large reward will be offered and this will bring in the missing piece of the puzzle.
Summersolstice
08-16-2010, 10:02 PM
The family will hold a press conference this afternoon in St. Albert to announce plans for a fund raising campaign to offer cash rewards for tips .
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/McCann+family+raise+cash+tips/3404504/story.html
Hopefully a large reward will be offered and this will bring in the missing piece of the puzzle.
A $10,000 reward is being offered:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/McCann+family+offers+cash+tips/3404373/story.html
nettie_82
08-18-2010, 09:41 AM
Vader in Edson court on Tuesday
3:57am
Edmonton / iNews880.com
8/18/2010
A person of interest in the case of a missing Edmonton area couple appeared in Edson court on unrelated charges.
Travis Vader says he has hired a new lawyer, John Sinclair, and is to appear in court again on September 2nd. Vader appeared in court Tuesday afternoon via close circuit television.
Lyle and Marie McCann have not been seen in more than six weeks. (The Canadian Press, CFXE, rp, ccg)
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1266308
nettie_82
08-18-2010, 11:58 AM
A $10,000 reward is being offered:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/McCann+family+offers+cash+tips/3404373/story.html
I believe it is actually an $11,000.00 reward, $10,000.00 of which was anonymously donated by one donor and $1,000.00 from the trust fund that has been set up. I sure hope they have had more than $1,000.00 donated to that fund though.
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Reward+offered+McCann+case/3405536/story.html
sillybilly
08-18-2010, 01:15 PM
This may sound dishonest (;);)) and probably somehow constitutes fraud, but if it was my evil twin's family member, I think my evil twin might lie through their evil teeth and say the reward was $100,000.
Money talks with scumbags.
nettie_82
08-19-2010, 09:02 AM
Reward grows in McCann mystery
Two days after the family of Lyle and Marie McCann announced that they were raising funds to offer a special reward for information in the case of the missing couple, donations are pouring in for the fund.
On Monday the couple's son, Bret McCann announced that an anonymous donor had stepped forward and pledged $10,000 to the fund. Since then the reward has grown by tens of thousands of dollars.
On Wednesday Bret McCann said the family has received another $10,000 pledge towards the reward from a donar in Saskatchewan.
The Apache Corporation has also pledged $10,000 towards the fund, and agreed to match any donations made by staff.
Smaller donations are also streaming in from the public. Bret McCann says he receives an email almost every hour informing him that someone has donated online to the cause.
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Reward+grows+McCann+mystery/3414644/story.html
RubyRed
08-19-2010, 08:21 PM
As of Wednesday, Bret McCann said the pot was hovering around $30,000. He went on to say that the generosity of those contributing to the fund goes beyond Alberta's borders.
"(Tuesday), I got a call from somebody in Saskatchewan," said McCann, Wednesday afternoon. "I didn't get her name, but she was asking me how to donate and I explained to her to go to TD-Canada Trust. Then, she said there will be $10,000 coming from my husband's legal firm there."
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1266677
Summersolstice
08-21-2010, 07:07 PM
I hope we will not begin hearing reports that this had anything to do with the McCanns' disappearance:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/19082010/74/bc-eerie-ufo-sightings-reported-b-c-lake.html
The McCanns were headed for Cultus Lake.
sillybilly
08-25-2010, 09:54 PM
I hope we will not begin hearing reports that this had anything to do with the McCanns' disappearance ...
<snip>
You seem to be the first person on the planet to have touched on it, Summer. LOL
SB :)
Summersolstice
08-27-2010, 12:25 PM
The Stephanie Stewart investigation is still active:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Tips+sought+disappearance+fire+lookout+worker/3446971/story.html
Hazel
08-29-2010, 10:41 PM
Family of missing elderly Alta. couple 'optimistic'
Last Updated: August 29, 2010 8:18pm
EDMONTON -- It has been almost two months since an elderly St. Albert, Alta., couple went missing and family members are anxious for information.
"It's difficult but we are staying optimistic," said Bret McCann, son of the missing couple. "We are all very anxious."
Travis Vader has been deemed a person of interest in the case, but has not been charged.
Around $45,000 in donations have poured into the reward pot-- the cash will be used for a reward for anyone with information and McCann said he hopes to continue collecting donations.
"We want to have a big reward so that someone will loosen their lips," he said.
Police dedication has been "very reassuring" for the family.
In a meeting with police and RCMP K-Division officers last week, McCann was informed around 18 to 20 officers are working full time on the case.
Read more: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/08/29/15180866.html
memories
08-31-2010, 12:12 PM
For the first time, RCMP are labelling Travis Vader a suspect in the missing persons case involving Lyle and Marie McCann of St. Albert.
Up to now, Vader, 37, had only been considered a "person of interest." However, the Mounties now say Vader is suspected of committing a crime, and that the disappearance of the McCann was the result of foul play. At this time, police won't talk about any details of the suspected foul play.
The McCanns were last seen July 3rd, filling up with gas at a station in St. Albert. They were bound for B.C. in their motorhome with an SUV in tow. The RV was found burned out in a campground near Edson. The SUV was found near Niton Junction, which is Vader's home area. He was arrested on unrelated charges a few weeks later.(jrw/bp)
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1272253
~PrinceSSa~
08-31-2010, 01:03 PM
Same content, different source
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/cbc-article.aspx?cp-documentid=25409054
~PrinceSSa~
08-31-2010, 06:29 PM
http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/cp-article.aspx?cp-documentid=25410064
more at this link.
Summersolstice
08-31-2010, 10:38 PM
This may sound dishonest (;);)) and probably somehow constitutes fraud, but if it was my evil twin's family member, I think my evil twin might lie through their evil teeth and say the reward was $100,000.
Money talks with scumbags.
It would be better to say $1 million. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Evil), now that a suspect has been named, and the investigation is progressing.
nettie_82
09-01-2010, 08:40 AM
Mounties have been questioning locals in Vader's hometown west of Edmonton about the man's actions on one particular day.
Sources in Peers, Alta. say police activity here in recent weeks has focused on a convenience store.
Sources tell CTV News that in the weeks since media first showed in the small town where Vader grew up, RCMP investigators have shown up to the store and have asked about the surveillance cameras inside.
Questions have also been asked about whether Vader purchased a phone card inside the store on July 8th
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100831/edm_police_100831/20100831/?hub=EdmontonHome
memories
09-01-2010, 10:07 PM
"Questions have also been asked about whether Vader purchased a phone card inside the store on July 8th."
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100831/edm_police_100831/20100831/?hub=EdmontonHome
I wonder if a phone card was found in the vehicle that might have been bought at that store and if so would that also be the reason for them wanting to see the surveillance cameras inside, to see if Vader is on tape buying it. (because you don't give a name, etc., when you buy one)
I doubt they'd still have a tape from that far back?
Just my questioning mind, lol.
nettie_82
09-02-2010, 08:47 AM
"Questions have also been asked about whether Vader purchased a phone card inside the store on July 8th."
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100831/edm_police_100831/20100831/?hub=EdmontonHome
I wonder if a phone card was found in the vehicle that might have been bought at that store and if so would that also be the reason for them wanting to see the surveillance cameras inside, to see if Vader is on tape buying it. (because you don't give a name, etc., when you buy one)
I doubt they'd still have a tape from that far back?
Just my questioning mind, lol.
I think there would have to be more tying him to that store somehow, unless they found a receipt with that card. Phone cards themselves can't be traced to a certain store, but a receipt could be.
Also it is interesting they are questioning about July 8th, when TV's sister claims he was with her in Edmonton until July 9th. Something else that goes against the credibility of the sister IMO.
Summersolstice
09-02-2010, 10:35 AM
I think there would have to be more tying him to that store somehow, unless they found a receipt with that card. Phone cards themselves can't be traced to a certain store, but a receipt could be.
Also it is interesting they are questioning about July 8th, when TV's sister claims he was with her in Edmonton until July 9th. Something else that goes against the credibility of the sister IMO.
They might have a witness who saw him at the store on that particular day and remembered it for some reason. Being a small village, that could have been someone from the area who knew him, or knew of him.
RLynne
09-02-2010, 03:36 PM
I think there would have to be more tying him to that store somehow, unless they found a receipt with that card. Phone cards themselves can't be traced to a certain store, but a receipt could be.
Also it is interesting they are questioning about July 8th, when TV's sister claims he was with her in Edmonton until July 9th. Something else that goes against the credibility of the sister IMO.
Last time I bought a phone card, it had to be activated at the store when I bought it. Could that be a way to trace it to a specific store?
JLMcKenna83
09-02-2010, 05:33 PM
Last time I bought a phone card, it had to be activated at the store when I bought it. Could that be a way to trace it to a specific store?
It most certainly can. If the card was activated at the store, there is a transaction number, date, and time of activation on record for that card #. (This is the same for phone cards, pre-paid credit cards, gift cards, game system cards and gift certificate cards.)
Summersolstice
09-03-2010, 11:00 AM
Just wanted to point something out. The CTV article referred to sources in Peers, Alberta, but talked about the town where TV grew up. Could the gas station be that one in Niton Junction (i.e. the truck stop), the town where TV grew up? Peers only has about six streets and not much in the way of business that I could tell.
I've thought for some time that the McCanns might have stopped at the Niton Junction truck stop for a restroom break, etc. Being a long-haul trucker who travelled that route for years, surely Mr. McCann would have been familiar with it.
Snoopster
09-03-2010, 04:58 PM
Just wanted to point something out. The CTV article referred to sources in Peers, Alberta, but talked about the town where TV grew up. Could the gas station be that one in Niton Junction (i.e. the truck stop), the town where TV grew up? Peers only has about six streets and not much in the way of business that I could tell.
I've thought for some time that the McCanns might have stopped at the Niton Junction truck stop for a restroom break, etc. Being a long-haul trucker who travelled that route for years, surely Mr. McCann would have been familiar with it.
ITA Summer! I think they stopped at Niton Junction for a bio break or whatever.
ITA Summer! I think they stopped at Niton Junction for a bio break or whatever.
Anyone who has travelled that route more than a few times as I have is familiar with the Niton Junction stop. It is directly off the highway, has a large parking area, plenty of big rig user friendly pumps, bathrooms and a convenience store etc.
Summersolstice
09-03-2010, 10:17 PM
It's the last big camping weekend of the year, so let's hope everyone spending time west of Edmonton keeps their eyes open.
RubyRed
09-04-2010, 02:42 AM
I started a thread for this elderly woman. She was driving from Jasper, AB to Kamloops BC and never arrived. Because she is in the general area I thought I would put her info here for reference for those that are in the area.
http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=481&cc=104
Snoopster
09-04-2010, 10:58 AM
Anyone who has travelled that route more than a few times as I have is familiar with the Niton Junction stop. It is directly off the highway, has a large parking area, plenty of big rig user friendly pumps, bathrooms and a convenience store etc.
Welcome to Websleuths, Zort!
Blondie in Spokane
09-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Glad you joined us, Zort!
Summersolstice
09-05-2010, 10:41 PM
I do hope anyone out off the beaten track on an unofficial search will be careful. Some crazy things happen out around Edson:
http://www.edsonleader.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2735202
Valleyboy
09-05-2010, 11:00 PM
I do hope anyone out off the beaten track on an unofficial search will be careful. Some crazy things happen out around Edson:
http://www.edsonleader.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2735202
Some real sickos out there.
Wondergirl
09-09-2010, 11:59 AM
Due to the geography, the age and the circumstance, I do wonder if the disappearce of May Milling is related to the McCann's at all?
http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=481&cc=104 (http://www.theeagle.ca/index.asp?mn=3&id=481&cc=104)
Montjoy
09-09-2010, 12:03 PM
Due to the geography, the age and the circumstance, I do wonder if the disappearce of May Milling is related to the McCann's at all?
I don't imagine that there is any connection. The suspect in the McCann case was locked up far before May went missing. She was driving alone on a fairly treacherous stretch of road.
memories
09-09-2010, 11:45 PM
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100909/edm_mccann_100909/20100909/?hub=EdmontonHome
I get a feeling this is not going to be good, hope I'm wrong.
memories
09-10-2010, 01:59 AM
Just came across this, probably the reason for the press conference...
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/09/10/15302891.html
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Cash+reward+solve+McCann+case+reaches/3507652/story.html?cid=megadrop_story
September 10, 2010 2:07 PM
Cash reward to solve McCann case reaches $60,000
Video at link "
St.Albert Superstore Gas Bar Security Footage of Lyle McCann,78, who has been missing since July 3, 2010 along with his wife, Marie, 77."
Valleyboy
09-10-2010, 04:37 PM
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Cash+reward+solve+McCann+case+reaches/3507652/story.html
Cash reward to solve McCann case reaches $60,000
By Florence Loyie, edmontonjournal.com September 10, 2010 2:07 PM
EDMONTON — A special cash reward being offered to solve the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann has reached $60,000
C
The reward is being offered through Crime Stoppers, and is separate from a $2,000 reward the organization offers for anonymous tips that lead to a similar conclusion.
To collect the $60,000, which was raised through community donations, the person coming forward must make their identity known to police and speak directly with investigators.
Lyle McCann, 78, and his wife Marie, 77, were last seen July 3 fuelling their motorhome at the Superstore in St. Albert as they headed for British Columbia. It was the last time their credit card was used.
On July 5, their motorhome was discovered engulfed in flames at the Minnow Lake campground, about an hour southeast of Edson. Their SUV, which they normally towed behind the motorhome, was missing.
They were reported missing on July 10 when they failed to show up at a planned meeting with their daughter in Abbotsford.
On July 12, firefighters responded to a log house fire near Niton Junction, about 30 minutes east of Edson along Highway 16.
Four days later, a local resident discovered the McCann’s SUV abandoned in the bush near Carrot Creek, 45 minutes from where the motorhome was found, and less than five minutes from Niton Junction, where the log home burned.
Travis Edward Vader, 38, was initially picked up by RCMP as a “person of interest” in the couple’s disappearance. He was named a suspect in the case at the end of August.
floyie@thejournal.canwest.com
© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Cash+reward+solve+McCann+case+reaches/3507652/story.html#ixzz0zA2ktDht
Wondergirl
09-10-2010, 05:02 PM
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Cash+reward+solve+McCann+case+reaches/3507652/story.html?cid=megadrop_story
September 10, 2010 2:07 PM
Cash reward to solve McCann case reaches $60,000
Video at link "
St.Albert Superstore Gas Bar Security Footage of Lyle McCann,78, who has been missing since July 3, 2010 along with his wife, Marie, 77."
BBM: THAT is alot of cash, and will hopefully be a good incentive for the person who knows what happened, to talk.
RCMP search property in Nojack area linked to McCann disappearance
4:06 pm
RCMP are searching a private property in the Nojack area, east of Edson.
Police confirm that this is connected to the investigation into the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann. They have been at the location for much of the day, Friday.
http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg/LocalNews/story.aspx?ID=1277305
Here is another link to the Nojack property search.
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/RCMP+searching+rural+property+McCanns/3508213/story.html
Snoopster
09-10-2010, 08:55 PM
Here is another link to the Nojack property search.
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/RCMP+searching+rural+property+McCanns/3508213/story.html
Investigators have blocked off a range road in the area while they search, and while they are remaining tight lipped on who owns the property, neighbours in the area say the property at the end of the blocked off range road belongs to a person who was once a close friend of Travis Vader.
According to the video at the above link, the property is on Range Road 120, off of Hwy 16. It sounds like they plan to be there into the weekend and there is a photo of a police command post trailer set up there. I noticed from the arial helicopter shot, that there is a large pond on the property.
RubyRed
09-10-2010, 10:24 PM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs294.snc4/41062_130627400317947_100001120622920_160534_67407 54_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs631.snc4/59148_130629983651022_100001120622920_160547_60217 33_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs321.ash2/60137_130629580317729_100001120622920_160544_68535 41_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs642.snc4/60236_130627540317933_100001120622920_160535_46155 70_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs625.snc4/58507_130627700317917_100001120622920_160536_65088 0_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs670.snc4/61037_130627843651236_100001120622920_160537_58781 28_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs605.snc4/58534_130628360317851_100001120622920_160541_68160 80_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs416.snc4/47877_130628056984548_100001120622920_160539_27748 17_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs639.snc4/59980_130628526984501_100001120622920_160542_37076 01_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs638.snc4/59859_130629713651049_100001120622920_160545_33311 3_n.jpg
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/RCMP+searching+rural+property+McCanns/3508213/story.html
Well done Ruby on selecting these clips. The search area is just a short distance from the last LE search site at the Nojack camp site. I fear there is a connection.
RubyRed
09-10-2010, 11:51 PM
Well done Ruby on selecting these clips. The search area is just a short distance from the last LE search site at the Nojack camp site. I fear there is a connection.
Thanks Zort. This property belongs to someone that was a friend of Vaders at one time.
neighbours in the area say the property at the end of the blocked off range road belongs to a person who was once a close friend of Travis Vader.
http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/RCMP+searching+rural+property+McCanns/3508213/story.html
Summersolstice
09-11-2010, 12:42 PM
Maybe the reward money is having its desired effect. It's a good thing.
dutchdelight
09-11-2010, 04:42 PM
They say this property involved in the current search belongs to Al Campbell. They also say this property is for sale and hasn't been occupied for awhile. I've searched the MLS.ca site but can't find the property for sale. Must be a Sale by owner ..does anyone know for sure?
dutchdelight
09-11-2010, 04:48 PM
Also..I copied this from a facebook site - "I just talked to someone from the area who said Al Campbell, the property owner hasn't been seen or heard from in months. This is of course just local gossip, but apparently he is definitely a buddy of TV, though people think he is now down in Southern Alberta." It has been publicized on the news that the propery belongs to Al Campbell. And the media have also reported that the owner of the property is an old friend of Vader's ...I wonder where Al Campbell is now?
dutchdelight
09-11-2010, 05:04 PM
One neighbour said someone's been hauling stuff off the property ever since Vader was arrested.
When told that RCMP are searching the property, the neighbour said: "They're too late."
RCMP are expected to stay on the property into Saturday when a civilian search-and-rescue team is to join the effort.
IMO47
09-12-2010, 07:46 AM
My husband and I looked at a property on RR 124 right by this Campbell's place at the beginning of this summer. Oddly I have had this inkling to call the realtor in the last month bc of the McCanns and tell him to have someone look around the woods on that property bc it is so isolated, thick bush except for 10 acres with a mobile home on it and several buildings. Keep in mind the bush out there can be very thick and there is a dugout with water in there, these can be quite deep. Some of it impossible to walk through unless cleared. I loved the idea of having a property out there but it did irk me to be sooo isolated even for a weekend getaway.
If the town talks ( and it does in small towns) anyone would have known that property was vacant with two neighbours far off. I never followed up on that call thinking it would seem too far fetched for a realtor to consider. Now it turns out it may be only 2 Range Roads away where the McCanns may be found.
We didn't buy the property and now it is off the listings. It had been for sale for 1.5 years. I have put in an email to the realtor to see if it is still for sale and then I'll ask what "news" is going on around the community if he knows of any and I will post it.
Another thing, wasn't the McCann's car when found, covered in mud? Driving into these remotes property's after rain would guarantee that mud, we had so much rain here this summer, and we did go throughout the property we were looking at with a quad. The rain left many areas of water some as high as 2 feet in the wooded trails.
watcher9
09-12-2010, 10:54 AM
IMO47,
WELCOME!
Thanks for posting.
I look forward to reading your next post.
Summersolstice
09-12-2010, 12:54 PM
My husband and I looked at a property on RR 124 right by this Campbell's place at the beginning of this summer. Oddly I have had this inkling to call the realtor in the last month bc of the McCanns and tell him to have someone look around the woods on that property bc it is so isolated, thick bush except for 10 acres with a mobile home on it and several buildings. Keep in mind the bush out there can be very thick and there is a dugout with water in there, these can be quite deep. Some of it impossible to walk through unless cleared. I loved the idea of having a property out there but it did irk me to be sooo isolated even for a weekend getaway.
If the town talks ( and it does in small towns) anyone would have known that property was vacant with two neighbours far off. I never followed up on that call thinking it would seem too far fetched for a realtor to consider. Now it turns out it may be only 2 Range Roads away where the McCanns may be found.
We didn't buy the property and now it is off the listings. It had been for sale for 1.5 years. I have put in an email to the realtor to see if it is still for sale and then I'll ask what "news" is going on around the community if he knows of any and I will post it.
Another thing, wasn't the McCann's car when found, covered in mud? Driving into these remotes property's after rain would guarantee that mud, we had so much rain here this summer, and we did go throughout the property we were looking at with a quad. The rain left many areas of water some as high as 2 feet in the wooded trails.
It wouldn't hurt to report this directly to LE. Let them check it out.
IMO47
09-12-2010, 01:18 PM
Left it as a tip to check the area.
This may be a repeat of info but I stumbled onto this while searching for other missing persons updates:
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100912/EDM_dive_100912/20100912?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
Date: Sunday Sep. 12, 2010 12:31 PM PT
Dive team called in for McCann search
Summersolstice
09-12-2010, 06:41 PM
This may be a repeat of info but I stumbled onto this while searching for other missing persons updates:
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100912/EDM_dive_100912/20100912?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
Date: Sunday Sep. 12, 2010 12:31 PM PT
Dive team called in for McCann search
The dugout?
Summersolstice
09-12-2010, 08:11 PM
Should the worst outcome occur, I hope investigators are aware of diatoms and their importance in such cases.
RubyRed
09-12-2010, 08:50 PM
Should the worst outcome occur, I hope investigators are aware of diatoms and their importance in such cases.
I'm sure a forensic pathologist would know.
Search for missing couple expands to water
RCMP prepare dive team in hunt for missing seniors
By KRISTY BROWNLEE, QMI Agency
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2010/09/13/15328916.html
Lyle and Marie McCann have been missing since July 3.
EDMONTON — RCMP confirm a dive team will begin a search of a small body of water in relation to the disappearance of an elderly St. Albert couple.
“The ground search has now been completed and there will be some divers to search a small body of water located on a private property west of Edmonton,” RCMP spokesman Sgt. Tim Taniguchi said Sunday.
nettie_82
09-13-2010, 08:37 AM
One neighbour, who asked not to be named, said the person whose land is being investigated this weekend used to be friends with Travis Vader – a man who's been named a suspect in the couple's disappearance. But according to the source, it's believed that relationship ended a number of years ago.
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100912/EDM_dive_100912/20100912?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
I wonder if TV was hoping to frame someone else for this by disposing of evidence or whatever they have found on that property? Just a thought.
IMO47
09-13-2010, 09:35 AM
The dugout?
The dugout in Alberta is a body of water akin to a pond but it is drinking water for the livestock. We found this out while property searching here in Alberta. It is often spring fed and they can be quite deep enough to swim in. I could not find the definition online so it seems to be a colloquial term.
The aerials in the photo show a dugout. There are no lakes or rivers there in that immediate area some boggy collections of water from the rain but it would not amount to the size of a dugout.
Wondergirl
09-13-2010, 10:34 AM
WTH? The FIRST time??? :eek:
For the first time in the ten weeks since Lyle and Marie McCann went missing, dive teams are being used in the investigation.
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100912/EDM_dive_100912/20100912?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
IMO47
09-13-2010, 11:47 AM
Dugout definition etc
http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/eng4696
Wondergirl
09-13-2010, 12:25 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2010/09/13/edm-w-mccann-pond-2-100913.jpg
The RCMP have already finished a ground search at the rural property for clues to the disappearance of the couple.
They will not say what led them to search the property — which includes the pond and a scrapyard — near Nojack, a town about 140 kilometres west of Edmonton.
"It's just that our investigation is continuing. This search is just one of the many locations that we have searched through our investigation, and we remain hopeful to locate the McCanns," said RCMP Sgt. Tim Taniguchi.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/13/mccann-search-pond-diver.html#ixzz0zQWxqBUW
Wondergirl
09-13-2010, 12:33 PM
This is a good example of why it is prudent to read more than one news report on the "same" information:
On Tuesday, police will have a special unit look underwater in two small ponds at a property between Edmonton and Jasper.
Searchers described the property as a 65-hectare “scrapyard,” littered with 20 to 30 rusting cars and pickups, an old bus and several abandoned sheds.
The search, according to a McCann family member, is part of a police bid to comb through multiple private properties in relation to the disappearance of the elderly couple. The RCMP have told the family that they are working to secure several similar search warrants.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/rcmp-divers-to-search-ponds-on-65-hectare-scrapyard-for-missing-alberta-couple/article1704829/
Wondergirl
09-13-2010, 12:36 PM
Also, I just wanted to say, that I wondered if it was enough for TV to have known the property owner a few years ago, in order to get a warrant for the current search property?
Perhaps there was evidence that TV had been staying there, with or without the knowledge of his old friend (purportedly).
Wondergirl
09-13-2010, 12:40 PM
I am curious to know how long it had been since TV contacted his sister, if he had been on the lam that long? I mean, if he is innocent of something with respect to the McCann's disappearance, and he hasn't talked/seen his sister in a long time, I find it a large coincidence that he showed up at her house the day after the McCann's disappeared.
The sister of a man RCMP have questioned about the disappearance of an Alberta couple says he showed up at her Edmonton home “tired and sick” the day after Lyle and Marie McCann vanished.
Bobbi-Jo Vader, who came to court Tuesday to see her brother face three charges unrelated to the disappearance, said the family had fallen out of touch with Travis.
But on July 4, she said, he drove up to the home she shares with her foster mother, Esther Rose McKay-Crosswell, looking for sanctuary.
“He was tired and he was sick and he needed to rest,” the sister said. “Travis has been running from the police for a while.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/vader-was-tired-sick-day-after-alberta-couple-vanished-sister/article1653502/
~PrinceSSa~
09-13-2010, 02:07 PM
I have a bad bad bad gutfeeling about that pond and what's in it.
I remained hopeful for the McCanns but gosh so much time has passed and really, what are the chances of finding this lovely couple alive?
And why did it take this long for the RCMP to check EVERYWHERE in and around the campsite, the location where the car was discovered and ALL locations associated with TV???
I pray for closure and may justice be swift!
Summersolstice
09-13-2010, 04:26 PM
Scrapyard? Anyone thinking what I'm thinking?
And one more thing: is a plea deal in the works? Why else would TV suddenly cough up info, if that is what happened?
And another: BJV is actually BJV-Sztupovszky. I've seen that surname somewhere in connection to Summerland.
And thanks, IMO47. Seems like that dugout would have a pretty distinctive phytoplankton, being self-contained and sourced mainly from rainwater.
memories
09-13-2010, 04:43 PM
Excerpts from below story:
The search, according to a McCann family member, is part of a police bid to comb through "multiple private properties" in relation to the disappearance of the elderly couple. The RCMP have told the family that they are working to secure several similar search warrants.
If there is something significant, meaning that it’s a break in the case, we would hold a press conference or send out at least a news release,” Sgt. Taniguchi said. “In this case, we haven’t even sent out a news release on the search. That should give you an idea of where this is.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/prairies/rcmp-divers-to-search-ponds-on-65-hectare-scrapyard-for-missing-alberta-couple/article1704829/
RubyRed
09-13-2010, 04:54 PM
TV isn't going to give up where he put the McCann's. There is absolutely no leverage for LE and no deterrent for the criminal. If this were my parents a mandatory life sentence without possibility of parole for 25 years for first-degree murders wouldn't be good enough.
And then consider this:
Persons convicted of first degree murder are not eligible for full parole for 25 years, however, after serving 15 years offenders may apply to have the eligibility date reduced under Section 745 of the Criminal Code
And this a man found guilty for a first degree double homicide:
under Canadian law, his sentence is not doubled, and he will only be serving one life sentence.
http://www.northernlife.ca/news/policeandCourt/2009/dec/carroll-181209.aspx
IMO47
09-13-2010, 07:49 PM
I called the listing agent for Al Campbell's property that has been named as the current searching place for the LE diving team. I was told it is two 40 acre parcels surrounded by crown land with a trout pond on it. I asked if this was a dug out and was answered yes. It is also abutting crown land.
I am looking for land and the agent did not reveal it was the land belonging to Campbell until I came out and asked. It has been listed for 2-3 weeks. I have access to the listing but it is not on the MLS yet so I do not feel comfortable posting it. Yes there is a lot of metal scrap on it that will be removed by the owner.
I find it creepy to even consider purchasing it but the realtor was rather nonchalant and knows nothing else.
RubyRed
09-13-2010, 08:15 PM
A real estate listing is a public record. If we can't back information up with a link then we do not post about it. Just giving you the info because I see you are new here.
Hazel
09-13-2010, 09:51 PM
Map showing new search area ( C ) in relation to where the RV was found ( H ) and where SUV was found ( G )
MAP = http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=MacKay,+Alberta+(TV+apprehended)&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Unknown+road+to:Trans-Canada+Hwy%2FYellowhead+Hwy+W%2FAB-16+W+to:Carrot+Creek,+Alberta+(just+a+reference)+t o:Peers,+Alberta+(unconfirmed+sightings+of+TV)+to: Range+Road+144,+Yellowhead+County,+Division+No.+14 ,+Alberta+T0E+0G0+to:Minnow+Lake,+Alberta+(RV+foun d+burned)&geocode=FciIMgMdrVUc-SnPxX_rGu2eUzH2BECUr-BKsQ%3BFU8FMgMdkwQc-Q%3BFVHDMQMd-7ob-Q%3BFfQhMgMd-noZ-Q%3BFVAGMgMd1iwY-SmfT1Qh55CeUzFGHyNytI0utA%3BFRnnMgMd2yoW-SlFW_lrIJieUzHCZSGbtH8H2g%3BFeNqMQMdELwV-SldDvmTkZueUzHE0lEOZW6pVA%3BFZkxLgMdaWwV-Snr8VB99yqcUzEO34xziw7-Bw&hl=en&mra=dme&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=2&sz=13&sll=53.598923,-115.702686&sspn=0.059797,0.181789&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=53.59495,-115.62561&spn=0.500432,1.454315&z=10
( A ) MacKay, Alberta ---> (where TV was apprehended)
( B ) Nojack campground ---> (searched by LE)
( C ) New Searches ---> (dugout)
( D) Niton Junction, Alberta ---> (where TV grew up)
( E ) Carrot Creek, Alberta ---> (just a reference)
( F ) Peers, Alberta ---> (unconfirmed sightings of TV)
( G ) Range Road 144, Alberta ---> (where SUV was found hidden under trees)
( H ) Minnow Lake, Alberta ---> (where RV found burned)
IMO47
09-13-2010, 10:51 PM
A real estate listing is a public record. If we can't back information up with a link then we do not post about it. Just giving you the info because I see you are new here.
I went back and here is the MLS#21891 But as I said I did not find it on MLS.ca sometimes it takes longer before it gets on there.
http://app2.interfacexpress.com/pcs/wcalberta/ViewDetail
Thanks for the info I can see there are a few newbies out there including myself
RubyRed
09-13-2010, 10:58 PM
I went back and here is the MLS#21891 But as I said I did not find it on MLS.ca sometimes it takes longer before it gets on there.
http://app2.interfacexpress.com/pcs/wcalberta/ViewDetail
Thanks for the info I can see there are a few newbies out there including myself
Thank You. Is much being said on the local news about this case? I'm not hearing anything on my local news now.
Where is this dear old couple? It's been over two months since they've vanished, since TV has been arrested, and still no news about even the evidence they have against this guy. Granted, I imagine they must have something on him and I definitely think he's involved, but is he ever going to be charged? do they not have enough evidence to charge him without discovery of the bodies? This case is just so heartbreaking. Every time I watch that video of Lyle at the gas bar I want to cry. How could anyone hurt such a sweet couple? I definitely think meth is involved in this, as well as pure evil - a horrible combination that probably results in crimes like this more often than we know.
IMO47
09-14-2010, 09:20 AM
Nothing different
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Divers+called+search+McCanns/3515872/story.html
Summersolstice
09-14-2010, 10:07 AM
Where is this dear old couple? It's been over two months since they've vanished, since TV has been arrested, and still no news about even the evidence they have against this guy. Granted, I imagine they must have something on him and I definitely think he's involved, but is he ever going to be charged? do they not have enough evidence to charge him without discovery of the bodies? This case is just so heartbreaking. Every time I watch that video of Lyle at the gas bar I want to cry. How could anyone hurt such a sweet couple? I definitely think meth is involved in this, as well as pure evil - a horrible combination that probably results in crimes like this more often than we know.
He's already in jail on other charges, so he's not going anywhere. Proving murder without a body is not impossible. It has happened before. However, it takes a considerable amount of other evidence to succeed in prosecuting such a case. I believe LE is taking that into consideration. Any time limits for laying charges after a person has been arrested are not a concern in this case, because TV is incarcerated on other issues.
There may not be a plea deal in the works for TV, but what if there is one for someone else, who may be providing the information LE needs to move forward? There's no way someone out there doesn't have information. More than one person could be involved, IMO.
Summersolstice
09-14-2010, 04:48 PM
I imagine people in the Edson area have another news story on their minds today:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Crown+wants+parole+Kleman+years/3522627/story.html
nettie_82
09-15-2010, 08:31 AM
Dive team wraps up search of pond west of Edmonton
Three divers entered a dugout early Tuesday in part of a search that began last week. Loud sounds could also be heard through the thick trees nearby after an industrial vacuum truck showed up at an adjacent acreage, which is home to some renters and their horses. A large hose was used to suction out a septic tank, which the divers were also asked to inspect.
On the weekend, a ground search wrapped up at the site where a forensics team removed a garbage bag filled with unknown contents. Investigators were also seen going into a specific area with a camera.
Investigators have remained tight lipped about what they've found.
The 80-acre piece of land has been linked to a past acquaintance of Travis Vader who has been named a suspect in the case. The property is littered with abandoned vehicles and other discarded items.
People living in the region say RCMP have been on scene a number of times over the past several weeks and have also searched other nearby properties.
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100914/edm_diveteam_100914/20100914/?hub=CalgaryHome
nettie_82
09-15-2010, 09:11 AM
Police wrapped up their search Tuesday of a property near Nojack, Alta., as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
Divers searched a pond on the property and police also used a backhoe to comb through a pile of debris. They also searched the septic tanks on the property.
RCMP said they found no human remains in the pond but would not say what or if they found anything else on the property.
The RCMP have already finished a ground search at the rural property looking for clues in the disappearance of the couple.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/14/edmonton-mccann-search-divers.html#ixzz0zbTYqfIv
Summersolstice
09-15-2010, 10:55 AM
Police wrapped up their search Tuesday of a property near Nojack, Alta., as part of the investigation into the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
Divers searched a pond on the property and police also used a backhoe to comb through a pile of debris. They also searched the septic tanks on the property.
RCMP said they found no human remains in the pond but would not say what or if they found anything else on the property.
The RCMP have already finished a ground search at the rural property looking for clues in the disappearance of the couple.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/14/edmonton-mccann-search-divers.html#ixzz0zbTYqfIv
I recall a missing persons search in the past that went on for many months, including the involvement of archeology experts. If the plastic bags taken away by LE show any useful evidence, I hope that property is turned over with a fine-toothed comb.
Wondergirl
09-15-2010, 01:21 PM
I don't imagine that there is any connection. The suspect in the McCann case was locked up far before May went missing. She was driving alone on a fairly treacherous stretch of road.
Okay, fair enough, but that is assuming the suspect who is incarcerated for other crimes, in the McCann case, acted alone. The age, geography and circumstance seem off.
Summersolstice
09-15-2010, 02:26 PM
Not saying that this is connected, but here's another one missing in Jasper:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/09/14/airdrie-alberta-darda-jordan-missing-camping-jasper.html
What if age and gender has nothing to do with this? There are many reasons why people disappear. Some are obvious, some are less so.
sillybilly
09-16-2010, 02:26 AM
Not saying that this is connected, but here's another one missing in Jasper:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2010/09/14/airdrie-alberta-darda-jordan-missing-camping-jasper.html
What if age and gender has nothing to do with this? There are many reasons why people disappear. Some are obvious, some are less so.
They found Jordan's truck a few hours ago near Pinto Lake, but haven't located him yet. Here's the FB page that's been set up.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150330104998485&v=wall
sillybilly
09-16-2010, 02:32 AM
Just bringing the McCann anonymous TIP page to the forefront:
http://www.lyleandmariemccann.com/
sillybilly
09-16-2010, 06:53 PM
Sadly, a body has been found approx 2 km from where Jordan's truck was located:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Body+found+Banff+National+Park+near+truck+Jordan+D arda/3535972/story.html
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150330104998485&v=wall
:(
RubyRed
09-16-2010, 07:37 PM
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Cash+reward+solve+McCann+case+reaches/3507652/story.html
Cash reward to solve McCann case reaches $60,000
By Florence Loyie, edmontonjournal.com September 10, 2010 2:07 PM
EDMONTON — A special cash reward being offered to solve the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann has reached $60,000
C
The reward is being offered through Crime Stoppers, and is separate from a $2,000 reward the organization offers for anonymous tips that lead to a similar conclusion.
To collect the $60,000, which was raised through community donations, the person coming forward must make their identity known to police and speak directly with investigators.
Lyle McCann, 78, and his wife Marie, 77, were last seen July 3 fuelling their motorhome at the Superstore in St. Albert as they headed for British Columbia. It was the last time their credit card was used.
On July 5, their motorhome was discovered engulfed in flames at the Minnow Lake campground, about an hour southeast of Edson. Their SUV, which they normally towed behind the motorhome, was missing.
They were reported missing on July 10 when they failed to show up at a planned meeting with their daughter in Abbotsford.
On July 12, firefighters responded to a log house fire near Niton Junction, about 30 minutes east of Edson along Highway 16.
Four days later, a local resident discovered the McCann’s SUV abandoned in the bush near Carrot Creek, 45 minutes from where the motorhome was found, and less than five minutes from Niton Junction, where the log home burned.
Travis Edward Vader, 38, was initially picked up by RCMP as a “person of interest” in the couple’s disappearance. He was named a suspect in the case at the end of August.
floyie@thejournal.canwest.com
© Copyright (c) The Edmonton Journal
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Cash+reward+solve+McCann+case+reaches/3507652/story.html#ixzz0zA2ktDht
bbm
I don't see that happening.
Joe Friday
09-17-2010, 05:44 PM
Sadly, a body has been found approx 2 km from where Jordan's truck was located:
http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Body+found+Banff+National+Park+near+truck+Jordan+D arda/3535972/story.html
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=150330104998485&v=wall
:(
They found Jordan. He doesn't have his own thread that I could find but he is mentioned here so I thought I would post this information here.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/17/calgary-airdrie-banff-darda-body-found.html?ref=rss
Body in Banff is missing Alberta camper
The body found Thursday in a remote stretch of Banff National Park is an Airdrie, Alta., man who went missing nearly two weeks ago, police confirmed Friday.
Jordan Darda, a 20-year-old University of Alberta student, left Edmonton for a solo camping trip in the Jasper area on the Labour Day long weekend and hadn't been seen or heard from since.
(Snipped)
His body was found Thursday face down in shallow water in Norman Creek at the north end of the park, about two kilometres from where his vehicle was discovered a day earlier.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/17/calgary-airdrie-banff-darda-body-found.html?ref=rss#ixzz0zpFU98HA
(Snipped)
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/17/calgary-airdrie-banff-darda-body-found.html?ref=rss#ixzz0zpFAyiI4
memories
09-18-2010, 05:51 PM
Updated: Sat Sep. 18 2010 15:05:17
Jessica Earle, ctvedmonton.ca
An RCMP investigation appears to have come full circle, with officers again scouring the site where a missing elderly couple's burned-out motor home was found more than two months ago.
CTV news has learned searchers returned to the area around Minnow Lake on Saturday, a campground located approximately 35 kilometres southeast of Edson.
The development comes after ground and dive teams wrapped up a multi-day search on a rural property between Niton Junction and Nojack, just off Hwy. 16 and R.R. 120. An area resident said the man who owns that property is a former friend of Travis Vader – the lone suspect named in the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
RCMP are not yet commenting on what prompted them to return to the campground.
The McCanns were last seen on July 3rd during a road trip to B.C. Their singed R.V. was found two days later.
Crime Stoppers has received more than 170 tips related to the case, and a reward for information that leads to the whereabouts of the couple stands at $60,000.
More to Come…
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100918/EDM_minnow_100918/20100918/?hub=EdmontonHome
I have to agree with Bret McCann, that his father would have not stopped, only 2 hours from home, it just does not make sence. From personal experience, you develope a bladder like a camel. Lyle McCann is only retired for five years. He would have easily gone 4 to 5 hours without stopping. As for his wife, the RV was self sufficient, and the passenger could have utilitized the bathroom while in transit.
Either something out of ordinary got them to stop, or they did go further down #16 and encountered someone then and there.
The one nagging question I have is, Where was Travis Vader on or prior to July 3rd. And don't ask his sister.
Wondergirl
09-19-2010, 10:01 AM
Updated: Sat Sep. 18 2010 15:05:17
Jessica Earle, ctvedmonton.ca
An RCMP investigation appears to have come full circle, with officers again scouring the site where a missing elderly couple's burned-out motor home was found more than two months ago.
CTV news has learned searchers returned to the area around Minnow Lake on Saturday, a campground located approximately 35 kilometres southeast of Edson.
The development comes after ground and dive teams wrapped up a multi-day search on a rural property between Niton Junction and Nojack, just off Hwy. 16 and R.R. 120. An area resident said the man who owns that property is a former friend of Travis Vader – the lone suspect named in the disappearance of Lyle and Marie McCann.
RCMP are not yet commenting on what prompted them to return to the campground.
The McCanns were last seen on July 3rd during a road trip to B.C. Their singed R.V. was found two days later.
Crime Stoppers has received more than 170 tips related to the case, and a reward for information that leads to the whereabouts of the couple stands at $60,000.
More to Come…
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100918/EDM_minnow_100918/20100918/?hub=EdmontonHome
BBM: Oh, dear. Someone here at WS had worried way back when, that they did not search Minnow Lake or the campground enough. Now LE is back there.
I wonder if LE has some sort of forensic evidence from the SUV indicating access to water? I doubt the McCann's themselves would have been near any lakes etc. The mud caked on the SUV may have indicated something.
Wondergirl
09-19-2010, 10:04 AM
CTV news has learned searchers returned to the Minnow Lake campground on Saturday, located approximately 35 kilometres southeast of Edson.
About eight officers on All Terrain Vehicles looked for clues, starting at the
crack of dawn.
While those on site were not authorized to speak on camera, they say the efforts were part of a low-priority gird search of the area. They are not expecting to return on Sunday.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100918/EDM_minnow_100918/20100918/?hub=EdmontonHome
BBM: It doesn't look like this is a high priority search. :-(
Summersolstice
09-19-2010, 01:19 PM
I have to agree with Bret McCann, that his father would have not stopped, only 2 hours from home, it just does not make sence. From personal experience, you develope a bladder like a camel. Lyle McCann is only retired for five years. He would have easily gone 4 to 5 hours without stopping. As for his wife, the RV was self sufficient, and the passenger could have utilitized the bathroom while in transit.
Either something out of ordinary got them to stop, or they did go further down #16 and encountered someone then and there.
The one nagging question I have is, Where was Travis Vader on or prior to July 3rd. And don't ask his sister.
Can't find the link now, but I recall BMcC saying that his father may have met someone. Brings me back to whoever he was talking to at the gas bar in that video.
Washrooms aren't the only reason to stop. Did he arrange to meet up with an old trucker buddy? We don't know if he wanted a snack at the Niton Junction truck stop. Did a windshield wiper fly off while he was driving? Did he decide on a whim to buy a 6/49 ticket (there was a draw that night)? Did someone flag him down at the side of the road, which is a carjacking tactic?
This struck me from the CTV article posted by memories:
"About eight officers on All Terrain Vehicles looked for clues, starting at the crack of dawn.
While those on site were not authorized to speak on camera, they say the efforts were part of a low-priority gird search of the area. They are not expecting to return on Sunday."
It sounds like they're going far out into the back country, along cutlines, etc.
sillybilly
09-19-2010, 06:34 PM
BBM: Oh, dear. Someone here at WS had worried way back when, that they did not search Minnow Lake or the campground enough. Now LE is back there.
I wonder if LE has some sort of forensic evidence from the SUV indicating access to water? I doubt the McCann's themselves would have been near any lakes etc. The mud caked on the SUV may have indicated something.
Yes Wondergirl, we were concerned that the burned out RV was not thoroughly investigated when it was discovered because it was a property crime, not a missing persons case. Once the McCanns were designated as a missing persons case, the area at Minnow Lake was searched more vigorously.
On Aug 8 I questioned if the area underneath the burned-out RV had been checked for any sign of excavation, and Aug 10, LE were back at the site.
This most recent search, although not classified as high priority, would appear to be the third time the area around the Minnow Lake Campground is being searched since Mr and Mrs McCann were classed as missing. Hopefully it is a result of evidence gleaned from the Campbell property that has provided a new lead, and additional impetus for LE to conduct this latest search.
I don't think LE is going to give up any time soon. This dear couple needs to be brought back to their loved ones and provided the dignity they so deserve.
sillybilly
09-19-2010, 06:40 PM
Can't find the link now, but I recall BMcC saying that his father may have met someone. Brings me back to whoever he was talking to at the gas bar in that video.
I wonder where Bobby Jo or Esther live in relation to the gas bar where the surveillance video was taken. Maybe BJ had her dates a bit messed (heh, heh), and TV was hitching a ride back to Niton?
Wondergirl
09-20-2010, 04:57 PM
Officers returned over the weekend to investigate an area close to where the couple's burnt-out motorhome was found. Sgt. Tim Taniguchi tells 660News police are conducting a ground search near Minnow Lake. He says it was planned and not the result of any new information.Taniguichi says this is an ongoing investigation and he can't comment on any items found or seized.At any given time, between 18 and 20 full-time investigators are working on the case.
http://www.660news.com/news/local/article/103923--rcmp-continue-ground-search-for-missing-alberta-couple
memories
09-20-2010, 07:00 PM
IMO I think the RCMP are trying to cover any and all bases before the weather changes and they are unable to search as easily.
Wondergirl
09-23-2010, 09:42 AM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs362.snc4/44515_1566245844847_1496433013_1438404_6272518_n.j pg
Printable Link Here:
http://missingpersonsalert.yolasite.com/resources/Lyle%20and%20Marie%20McCann%20MissingFinal3_fixed% 283%29.pdf
Summersolstice
09-24-2010, 01:30 PM
That's a Tasmanian beer, isn't it? Not the kind of ballcap that would be easily available.
Ironically, there's a Boag Lake near Edmonton:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&q=boag+lake+alberta&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Boag+Lake&gl=ca&ei=cd-cTJqjD4ymsQPAsYXWAQ&ved=0CBUQ8gEwAA&ll=53.517859,-113.219604&spn=0.233116,0.834274&z=11
memories
09-25-2010, 08:44 PM
Sat Sep. 25 2010 17:49:56
Jessica Earle, ctvedmonton.ca
Just shy of a dozen family members launched their own investigation on Saturday, looking for evidence that will lead to a break in the case of a missing elderly couple.
A ground search was on near the community of Nojack, an area located about 150 kilometres west of Edmonton.
About ten people scoured the land on all-terrain vehicles, looking for anything that could lead to the whereabouts of St. Albert's Lyle and Marie McCann.
Among the searchers was the couple's 14-year-old great nephew.
"If I were in their position, I'd rather have people looking for me than sitting at home," said John McCann.
"I'd kind of rather feel positive about it - that we'll find them - that they'll walk up to us or something."
Up until recently police have asked the family to hold off doing its own pursuit.
The couple's son Bret says while he still has faith in authorities, he can no longer tolerate staying idle.
"They're aware we're doing this but basically they're not leading us or directing us where to search or anything like that. This is all initiated by our family and friends," he said from his home in St. Albert.
The missing couple's nephew tells CTV while it feels good to be doing something, it's disheartening coming up empty handed.
"I was really optimistic that they were sitting some place waiting for us," said Murray McCann.
"Now they are not sitting and waiting for us, so we have to find them and bring them home."
The civilian search is being conducted in the area where the McCann's burned-out motorhome and S.U.V. were found, on July 5th and July 16th, respectively.
Family members say they hope to continue their efforts for as many days as possible before the snow hits.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100925/EDM_Mccann_100925/20100925/?hub=EdmontonHome
memories
09-25-2010, 08:59 PM
Family and friends have launched their own search for an Alberta couple missing since early July.
Lyle McCann, 78, and his wife, Marie, 77, left St. Albert, Alta., on July 3 bound for British Columbia. They were last seen that day at a gas station in the city just west of Edmonton.
Their son Bret McCann said more than a dozen friends and family members spent Saturday combing an area east of Edson for any sign of the couple.
"I mean, we still have our full faith in the police. But some of [the family], they just can't stand waiting around, so they felt they had to do something," he said.
Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2010/09/25/edm-mccann-search.html#ixzz10aow4GGD
Wondergirl
09-27-2010, 01:53 PM
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ImageShrinker?http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20100925/430mccann.jpg,430,241
Three Generations of family search for clues on Saturday, about what happened to Lyle and Marie McCann.
Family and close friends of Lyle and Marie McCann have begun their own ground search in hopes of finding the missing couple.
The group has been searching on foot and by ATV along cutlines and bush where the McCann's burnt out SUV was located.
RCMP conducted their own search of the area last weekend
Bret said RCMP were aware of the search but had not recommended it. He said his uncle and cousins took it upon themselves to search public lands on their quads
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/McCanns+launch+their+search/3581329/story.html#ixzz10kmpC6tS
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100927/CGY_missing_mccann_100927/20100927/?hub=CalgaryHome
nettie_82
09-29-2010, 08:10 AM
Fisherman recalls seeing what may have been the McCanns' motorhome
An Alberta fisherman tells CTV News he may have seen Lyle and Marie McCanns' motorhome being driven erratically by two men around the same time the couple disappeared.
The fisherman, who wished to remain nameless, says he was out fishing at Chip Lake Park in early July when he saw a motorhome back into some trees at the campsite.
"[The] motorhome drove in and backed right in to the trees. Never even got out and looked, you know for damage for your motorhome. It was really odd, if you backed into some trees you would get out to take a look and see how much damage you did," the man said.
He says he got a look at the people driving the motorhome.
"One guy got out, he had on a checkered vest, a safety vest...the other guy was a big guy, he got back in and never saw him after."
The fisherman tells CTV News following that day he was watching the news when a story of the couple's disappearance appeared on screen. In the story, the man says an image of the couple's motorhome was shown.
"That's the motorhome that backed into the trees at Chip Lake Park. And I'm sure it was."
To read more:
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928?hub=EdmontonHome
Ok, so why has it taken almost 3 months for this man to come forward and say he saw the motorhome?
LilyMacBloom
09-29-2010, 08:36 AM
Ok, so why has it taken almost 3 months for this man to come forward and say he saw the motorhome?
I read the article and took it that CTV news had just learned of this man. I also took it that the police already had the info as police had already been to the lake. Or, that's how I hope it was/is.
Summersolstice
09-29-2010, 10:36 AM
Fisherman recalls seeing what may have been the McCanns' motorhome
An Alberta fisherman tells CTV News he may have seen Lyle and Marie McCanns' motorhome being driven erratically by two men around the same time the couple disappeared.
The fisherman, who wished to remain nameless, says he was out fishing at Chip Lake Park in early July when he saw a motorhome back into some trees at the campsite.
"[The] motorhome drove in and backed right in to the trees. Never even got out and looked, you know for damage for your motorhome. It was really odd, if you backed into some trees you would get out to take a look and see how much damage you did," the man said.
He says he got a look at the people driving the motorhome.
"One guy got out, he had on a checkered vest, a safety vest...the other guy was a big guy, he got back in and never saw him after."
The fisherman tells CTV News following that day he was watching the news when a story of the couple's disappearance appeared on screen. In the story, the man says an image of the couple's motorhome was shown.
"That's the motorhome that backed into the trees at Chip Lake Park. And I'm sure it was."
To read more:
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928?hub=EdmontonHome
Ok, so why has it taken almost 3 months for this man to come forward and say he saw the motorhome?
I wonder if this is what the fisherman means:
http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sunvis.com/shop/pc/catalog/sa-sv/5179_detail.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sunvis.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp%3Fidproduct%3D5115%26idcategory%3D&usg=__cN_pzUErFMWdpa8OdUtRA51BKz4=&h=300&w=300&sz=21&hl=en&start=31&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=0ucjoIR-0YqlsM:&tbnh=116&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcheckered%2Bsafety%2Bvest%26start%3D2 1%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D21%26tbs%3D isch:1
I found this:
http://alberta.ca/acn/201007/2873393F167A5-A938-0EEA-9FBB1BCBDDFF9154.html
Also wondering about highway cleanup crews, oilpatch work being done in that area, tow trucks that may have been hooking up a vehicle in the area, etc. It seems that just about anyone around there could have had a safety vest, so unless this one was very distinctive, it won't be all that helpful.
It does seem, however, that a roadside ruse is becoming a likely part of this disappearance.
Does anyone know if the RCMP are using professional trackers in the search? There are professional animal trackers at Chip Lake, and it has occurred to me that their skills might be useful.
nettie_82
09-30-2010, 09:04 AM
Pieces of trees taken into evidence in ongoing McCann case
Investigators have now pulled pieces of trees from a camping site at Chip Lake Park located north of Highway 16. The development comes after a local fisherman told CTV News he believed he saw Lyle and Marie McCann's motorhome being driven erratically by two men around the same time the couple disappeared.
The fisherman, who wished to remain nameless, says he was out fishing at Chip Lake Park in early July when he saw a motorhome back into some trees at the campsite.
"[The] motorhome drove in and backed right in to the trees. Never even got out and looked, you know for damage for your motorhome. It was really odd, if you backed into some trees you would get out to take a look and see how much damage you did," the man said.
He says he got a look at the people driving the motorhome.
"One guy got out, he had on a checkered vest, a safety vest...the other guy was a big guy, he got back in and never saw him after."
The fisherman tells CTV News following that day he was watching the news when a story of the couple's disappearance appeared on screen. In the story, the man says an image of the couple's motorhome was shown.
"That's the motorhome that backed into the trees at Chip Lake Park. And I'm sure it was."
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100929/edm_mccann_100929/20100929/?hub=EdmontonHome
According to this, the RCMP must not have known about this prior to CTV reporting? Why wouldn't he go directly to LE?
memories
09-30-2010, 01:02 PM
If this is the trailer and this was in early July, there was no mention made of the car, it would have been mentioned if it was attached to the back.
What I'm thinking is that it WAS attached in the campsite they went to just before it was burned???
It would explain though where it had been in the earlier days.
Does anyone know if there's a park attendant at this site?
Also maybe someone can do us a map showing where Chip Lake is in comparison to the other areas of interest.
Wondergirl
09-30-2010, 01:03 PM
Pieces of trees taken into evidence in ongoing McCann case
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100929/edm_mccann_100929/20100929/?hub=EdmontonHome
According to this, the RCMP must not have known about this prior to CTV reporting? Why wouldn't he go directly to LE?
Nettie, I just wonder if this is old "news"? In otherwords, all of this took place a long time ago (removing trees etc.), and CTV have only just discovered the fisherman (or LE wants this selective information out there)?
IMO, the wording is very ambiguous in that article, and doesn't really give a clue as to when anything happened.
Thank-you for posting the articles. It is definitely news to those following the case.
Where are the McCann's? :(
Wondergirl
09-30-2010, 01:06 PM
On August 31st, police officially named Vader as a suspect in the case.
Mounties have questioned locals in Vader's hometown of MacKay about the man's actions.
There is about a 70 kilometre distance from Minnow Lake to Chip Lake.
http://edmonton.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100928/edm_mccann_100928/20100928?hub=EdmontonHome
Wondergirl
09-30-2010, 01:10 PM
Here is Edson, AB to Chip Lake, AB. Apx. 70 KM's. Right on Highway #16.
Hopefully Hazel can add this to the working map of key locations?
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Edson,+Alberta+T7E+1L9+(Edson+Airport)&daddr=Chip+Lake,+AB+T0E&hl=en&geocode=FXyMMQMdX-MO-SGGR3nLL1C71A%3BFRciMgMdpL4e-Sl1oZtv9PGeUzFPpjpBHs552g&gl=ca&mra=pd&mrcr=0&sll=52.164241,-115.454423&sspn=13.220453,36.474609&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9
Wondergirl
09-30-2010, 01:15 PM
Also, maybe LE didn't know about this fisherman, and the recent search efforts uncovered this fisherman? Who knows, but, anyway you look at it, it's a good thing, I guess.
Wondergirl
09-30-2010, 01:17 PM
The Fisherman says here that he had a friend with him. I wonder if they saw other details also?
I guess if LE took the trees from Chip Lake, that didn't just happen in one day (this story just broke). So, I am assuming LE took the trees a long time ago. They were probably looking for paint marks from the McCann's SUV.
http://www.660news.com/news/local/article/108088--fisherman-may-have-seen-mccann-motorhome
Wondergirl
09-30-2010, 01:20 PM
McCanns launch own search
Wednesday, Sep 29, 2010 06:00 am | By Ryan Tumilty (rtumilty@stalbert.greatwest.ca) | St. Albert Gazette
Bret McCann, the couple's son, said they have spent the past two weekends searching Crown lands in the areas around where both vehicles were found and plan to continue until the first snowfall.
“The police can't be everywhere and we are trying to help them by doing our own search,” he said. “We are trying to carefully go down every road and every place we think a vehicle might have gone through.”
He said the police are searching properties based on their investigation, but the family's search is more general.
“Where they are searching is based on their investigation. They are talking to people and following up on leads. We don't have the benefit of that information,” he said. “We can just put together sort of plausible scenarios about where the motorhome or the SUV might have been driven.”
He said they have photographed tire tracks and other indications that might be useful and forwarded them onto police.
http://www.stalbertgazette.com/article/20100929/SAG0801/309299969/mccanns-launch-own-search
Hazel
09-30-2010, 02:26 PM
Here is Edson, AB to Chip Lake, AB. Apx. 70 KM's. Right on Highway #16.
Hopefully Hazel can add this to the working map of key locations?
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Edson,+Alberta+T7E+1L9+(Edson+Airport)&daddr=Chip+Lake,+AB+T0E&hl=en&geocode=FXyMMQMdX-MO-SGGR3nLL1C71A%3BFRciMgMdpL4e-Sl1oZtv9PGeUzFPpjpBHs552g&gl=ca&mra=pd&mrcr=0&sll=52.164241,-115.454423&sspn=13.220453,36.474609&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=9
*** UPDATED MAP *** ---> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=MacKay,+Alberta+(TV+apprehended)&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Unknown+road+to:Trans-Canada+Hwy%2FYellowhead+Hwy+W%2FAB-16+W+to:Carrot+Creek,+Alberta+(just+a+reference)+t o:Peers,+Alberta+(unconfirmed+sightings+of+TV)+to: Range+Road+144,+Yellowhead+County,+Division+No.+14 ,+Alberta+T0E+0G0+to:Minnow+Lake,+Alberta+(RV+foun d+burned)+to:Chip+Lake,+AB+T0E&hl=en&geocode=FciIMgMdrVUc-SnPxX_rGu2eUzH2BECUr-BKsQ%3BFU8FMgMdkwQc-Q%3BFVHDMQMd-7ob-Q%3BFfQhMgMd-noZ-Q%3BFVAGMgMd1iwY-SmfT1Qh55CeUzFGHyNytI0utA%3BFRnnMgMd2yoW-SlFW_lrIJieUzHCZSGbtH8H2g%3BFeNqMQMdELwV-SldDvmTkZueUzHE0lEOZW6pVA%3BFZkxLgMdaWwV-Snr8VB99yqcUzEO34xziw7-Bw%3BFRciMgMdpL4e-Sl1oZtv9PGeUzFPpjpBHs552g&mra=ls&sll=53.59495,-115.62561&sspn=0.478422,1.454315&ie=UTF8&ll=53.515001,-115.74646&spn=0.479326,1.454315&t=h&z=10
( A ) MacKay, Alberta ---> (where TV was apprehended)
( B ) Nojack campground ---> (searched by LE)
( C ) New Searches ---> (dugout)
( D) Niton Junction, Alberta ---> (where TV grew up)
( E ) Carrot Creek, Alberta ---> (just a reference)
( F ) Peers, Alberta ---> (unconfirmed sightings of TV)
( G ) Range Road 144, Alberta ---> (where SUV was found hidden under trees)
( H ) Minnow Lake, Alberta ---> (where RV found burned)
( I ) CHIP Lake Campground, Alberta ---> (where RV was seen by fisherman on Sunday, July 4th)
Hazel
09-30-2010, 02:50 PM
If this is the trailer and this was in early July, there was no mention made of the car, it would have been mentioned if it was attached to the back.
What I'm thinking is that it WAS attached in the campsite they went to just before it was burned???
It would explain though where it had been in the earlier days.
Does anyone know if there's a park attendant at this site?
Also maybe someone can do us a map showing where Chip Lake is in comparison to the other areas of interest.
memories, map is updated, and I wrote Sunday, July 4th, according to what the fisherman says in the video clip.
Very good question regarding the SUV memories!
Hazel
09-30-2010, 09:30 PM
Found this "Lyle and Marie McCann"video.
Well done though it is not up-to-date.
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/Bzboy7re7aE/default.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/v/Bzboy7re7aE&hl=en&fs=1&autoplay=1)
Click on Image, if it doesn't work immediately, Refresh the page
http://www.youtube.com/user/nancydrew511
Chip Lake Park
Group area * Security Patrol
Contact Information
Chip Lake Park
Box 471
T0E 2M0
Wildwood
Phone: 780-325-2460
Open: May1-Oct.31
Directions
9 km N & 10.5 km W of Wildwood
http://www1.travelalberta.com/en-ca/index.cfm?pageid=3&Search=Details&ID=35901
It appears that the campground is on the North East side of the lake in a fairly remote area. One road in and out. If I knew how to map it for you I would.
If this is the trailer and this was in early July, there was no mention made of the car, it would have been mentioned if it was attached to the back.
What I'm thinking is that it WAS attached in the campsite they went to just before it was burned???
It would explain though where it had been in the earlier days.
Does anyone know if there's a park attendant at this site?
Also maybe someone can do us a map showing where Chip Lake is in comparison to the other areas of interest.
If the SUV was not attached, and the fisherman saw two people in the motorhome then its possible someone else was driving the SUV perhaps TV and so three perps involved.
I think this is link.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=MacKay,+Alberta+(TV+apprehended)&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Unknown+road+to:Trans-Canada+Hwy%2FYellowhead+Hwy+W%2FAB-16+W+to:Carrot+Creek,+Alberta+(just+a+reference)+t o:Peers,+Alberta+(unconfirmed+sightings+of+TV)+to: Range+Road+144,+Yellowhead+County,+Division+No.+14 ,+Alberta+T0E+0G0+to:Minnow+Lake,+Alberta+(RV+foun d+burned)+to:Range+Road+101A&hl=en&geocode=FciIMgMdrVUc-SnPxX_rGu2eUzH2BECUr-BKsQ%3BFU8FMgMdkwQc-Q%3BFVHDMQMd-7ob-Q%3BFfQhMgMd-noZ-Q%3BFVAGMgMd1iwY-SmfT1Qh55CeUzFGHyNytI0utA%3BFRnnMgMd2yoW-SlFW_lrIJieUzHCZSGbtH8H2g%3BFeNqMQMdELwV-SldDvmTkZueUzHE0lEOZW6pVA%3BFZkxLgMdaWwV-Snr8VB99yqcUzEO34xziw7-Bw%3BFfTzMgMd3tsf-Q&mra=dme&mrcr=7&mrsp=8&sz=11&sll=53.62591,-115.526047&sspn=0.180397,0.614548&ie=UTF8&ll=53.709714,-115.059814&spn=0.720148,2.458191&t=h&z=9
Summersolstice
10-01-2010, 10:50 AM
I sure hope that they have checked the sisters phone records.
I'm sure they're checking quite a number of people's phone records, including the McCanns. Where were the last pings detected? Would a perp use a victim's cellphone?
I'm sure they've also done some fancy footwork with social networking sites, too. That must be taking quite a bit of time, actually.
Hazel
10-01-2010, 02:23 PM
Chip Lake Park
Group area * Security Patrol
Contact Information
http://www1.travelalberta.com/en-ca/index.cfm?pageid=3&Search=Details&ID=35901
It appears that the campground is on the North East side of the lake in a fairly remote area. One road in and out. If I knew how to map it for you I would.RSBM for space
I believe you might be right about the location. Found this other site which pinpoints where the Campground is located (link HERE (http://www.campscout.com/campground/AB0266/) scroll all the way down) (Chip Lake Park); however, we don't know for sure if that is exactly where the event witnessed by the fisherman took place. I will change that location into my map.
Here is a map of the lake ... though it appears the map is upside down :D (note the arrow for North is pointing south) ... also just by comparing the shape of the lake we can tell the map is upside down ;)http://www.campscout.com/static_media/CampPics/orig_AB0266C.jpg
Chip Lake Park: http://www.campscout.com/campground/AB0266/
Hazel
10-01-2010, 02:33 PM
*** UPDATED MAP *** to show location of the Campground on Chip Lake ---> http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=MacKay,+Alberta+(TV+apprehended)&daddr=Unknown+road+to:Unknown+road+to:Niton+Juncti on+to:Carrot+Creek,+Alberta+(just+a+reference)+to: Peers,+Alberta+(unconfirmed+sightings+of+TV)+to:Ra nge+Road+144,+Yellowhead+County,+Division+No.+14,+ Alberta+T0E+0G0+to:Minnow+Lake,+Alberta+(RV+found+ burned)+to:Range+Road+101A,+Yellowhead+County,+Div ision+No.+14,+Alberta+T0E+2M0&geocode=FciIMgMdrVUc-SnPxX_rGu2eUzH2BECUr-BKsQ%3BFU8FMgMdkwQc-Q%3BFVHDMQMd-7ob-Q%3BFaAiMgMdOX8Z-Sl5qGtF1pOeUzFqvrp17mBmsA%3BFVAGMgMd1iwY-SmfT1Qh55CeUzFGHyNytI0utA%3BFRnnMgMd2yoW-SlFW_lrIJieUzHCZSGbtH8H2g%3BFeNqMQMdELwV-SldDvmTkZueUzHE0lEOZW6pVA%3BFZkxLgMdaWwV-Snr8VB99yqcUzEO34xziw7-Bw%3BFeEWMwMdWMUf-SmDI5duXuWeUzFjLwFbtwo5Pg&hl=en&mra=pd&mrcr=7&dirflg=ht&sll=53.560705,-115.688782&sspn=0.478809,1.454315&ie=UTF8&ll=53.524799,-115.647583&spn=0.479216,1.454315&t=h&z=10
( A ) MacKay, Alberta ---> (where TV was apprehended)
( B ) Nojack campground ---> (searched by LE)
( C ) New Searches ---> (dugout)
( D) Niton Junction, Alberta ---> (where TV grew up)
( E ) Carrot Creek, Alberta ---> (just a reference)
( F ) Peers, Alberta ---> (unconfirmed sightings of TV)
( G ) Range Road 144, Alberta ---> (where SUV was found hidden under trees)
( H ) Minnow Lake, Alberta ---> (where RV found burned)
( I ) CHIP Lake Park, Alberta ---> (where RV was seen by fisherman on Sunday, July 4th)
Note: ( I ) shows where Chip Lake Park (Campground) is located; exact location where the fisherman witnessed the RV backing onto tress, yet to be confirmed.
nettie_82
10-01-2010, 02:59 PM
I wonder if the two in the RV were on a mission to dump the bodies in chip lake when they drove into Chip Lake Park and had to turn around and leave since there were other people around. If that is the case, I wonder if they just went to another location around Chip Lake to dump the bodies?! I certainly hope LE is thoroughly checking Chip Lake and surrounding area.
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