View Full Version : Cesar Laurean Trial
panthera
08-09-2010, 07:58 PM
Witness List is Released in Laurean Murder Trial
STATE v. LAUREAN
08 CRS 50288, 08 CRS 50291
Potential Witness List for the State of North Carolina
August 9, 2010
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/09/witness-list-released-laurean-murder-trial-ar-327882/
panthera
08-09-2010, 08:03 PM
Laurean trial begins, recessed after 30 minutes
WAYNE COUNTY, NC (WECT) – The trial for former Camp Lejeune Marine Cesar Laurean began in Wayne County Monday.
He is facing first degree murder charges in the death of his pregnant colleague Cpl. Maria Lauterbach.
According to WITN, Laurean only spent about 30 minutes inside the courtroom on the first day of his trial as a judge took care of some "housekeeping" items.
The trial will continue Tuesday morning at 9:30.
more at http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=12948418
CBTampa
08-09-2010, 09:15 PM
Thanks for starting the new thread. I only have one question, why isn't this under trials in the news?
panthera
08-09-2010, 09:20 PM
Thanks for starting the new thread. I only have one question, why isn't this under trials in the news?
It would have to be moved by a moderator or admin. :)
CBTampa
08-09-2010, 09:37 PM
It would have to be moved by a moderator or admin. :)
Ok, I sent a pm to the moderator for help. Thanks again for starting this thread. We have waited for over two years for this trial.
passionflower
08-09-2010, 09:50 PM
Finally, he is going to trial!
Everything has been so quiet about him.
Is it on TV?
panthera
08-09-2010, 09:55 PM
Ok, I sent a pm to the moderator for help. Thanks again for starting this thread. We have waited for over two years for this trial.
You're most welcome! And yes, over two years. Hopefully Maria and her baby will have justice soon. :prayer:
panthera
08-09-2010, 09:59 PM
Finally, he is going to trial!
Everything has been so quiet about him.
Is it on TV?
According to the report at this link
http://www.wral.com/news/local/video/8104160/
it will be covered at that site once opening statements begin. :)
lonetraveler
08-10-2010, 10:21 AM
Well, I clicked on WRAL for live feed and only got a promise that it would be carried live once opening statements begin.
Topsail Girl
08-10-2010, 10:55 AM
I had posted in the other thread that Anne Lauterbach (Maria's sister) has given permission for anyone who is on Facebook to change their profile pics to a pic of Maria to show support for the family. I changed mine and so has Anne and several of Maria's friends.
dgfred
08-10-2010, 01:12 PM
I'm highly interested in what the wife knew and when... and why she is still married to the dude.
Topsail Girl
08-10-2010, 02:10 PM
Jurors being whittled down in Laurean murder trial
http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=12955665
lonetraveler
08-10-2010, 04:22 PM
I guess we will see a live trial after jury is seated and the actual trial begins? I hope so. Too bad the death penalty is off the table. I'm curious as to how the defense will defend him. I wonder if they will cast suspicion onto his wife. He claimed Maria died by cutting her own throat the autopsy states by blunt force trauma to the head. The Defense really has their job cut out for them on this one.
Topsail Girl
08-10-2010, 07:15 PM
No link yet but I'll update ASAP. WTVD reports that jury selection was in process and a jury is expected to be seated by Thursday or Friday. Come onnnnn and hurry now - we need some JUSTICE!!!!
snowshuze
08-10-2010, 07:23 PM
Checking in to see if there was going to be live coverage, YAY. :)
panthera
08-10-2010, 08:23 PM
Jury selection underway in Cesar Laurean murder trial
GOLDSBORO, N.C. -- Jury selection has wrapped up on the second day of the Cesar Laurean murder trial. On Monday, attorney's for both sides said it would be difficult to find a juror who had not heard about Laurean or the woman he is accused of killing, Maria Lauterbach.
On Tuesday, questions for potential jurors focused heavily on media coverage and that's because when this case first broke in 2007, it gained local and national attention. The trial was moved from Onslow County to Wayne County to ensure Laurean gets a fair trial. But attorney's from both sides say just knowing about the case isn't enough to keep someone out of the jury box.
"We are pleasantly surprised with the questions that went on this morning. I was anticipating there would be more jurors that had formed an opinion," said Dewey Hudson, Onslow County District Attorney.
"I think it's progressing,” said Dick McNeil, Laurean’s attorney. “It's not surprising that quite a few people here haven't heard about it as much as they would have in Onslow County."
more at http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/10/9/jury-selection-underway-in-cesar-laurean-murder-tr-ar-328376/
panthera
08-10-2010, 08:36 PM
Judge ruled witnesses sequestered
(excerpt)
"The defendant’s wife, Christina Laurean, is last on a list of 128 witnesses made public by prosecutors Monday morning. McNeil said he has a witness list of 20 or so names. He has filed the list with the court, but it has not yet been added to the public file.
McNeil has filed an unanswered motion seeking spousal privilege in the case, meaning the state would be unable to compel Christina Laurean to testify about private conversations she had with her husband.
The state has subpoenaed around two dozen Marines who knew either Cesar Laurean or Maria Lauterbach or both. Marine Sgt. Daniel Durham let Lauterbach move in with him into his Hunter’s Creek home after she said she was harassed aboard Camp Lejeune in the fall of 2007. He is expected to testify about a note Lauterbach left behind when she disappeared in December 2007. His girlfriend Jennifer Perry is also named on the witness list.
Another Marine, Cpl. Dennis Ward, is set to testify about handing over to authorities a crowbar he says Laurean gave to him to keep in December 2007. Authorities believe the crowbar is the murder weapon and have run DNA tests on the tool.
Ward is the person shown on Lowe’s Home Improvement surveillance video from Dec. 24, 2007, shopping with Laurean for cinderblocks, paint and a wheel barrel."
article at http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean-81392-today-cesar.html
oceanblueeyes
08-11-2010, 09:36 AM
Thanks for the new thread. I am so glad the trial is finally here. May justice be done. Gosh darn it I will be away all next week with my adorable hubby on our anniversary vacation.
While some seem to think he killed Maria because he thought the baby was his, I think the opposite was his motive.
I think once she came there they got into a highly accusatory argument about Maria accusing him of raping her and him being the father of her baby.
In Cesar's mind, imo, he thought she already HAD damaged his career and marriage.
I have always felt that this case was a crime of passion. Tension building up for many many months where it wouldn't take but a tiny spark to ignite the explosion.
Imo, someone said something to fuel the flames, then the other one said something, and everything escalated into raw rage.
IMO and speculation.
Topsail Girl
08-11-2010, 09:57 AM
Hey Ocean, great post. It's good to see you here.
passionflower
08-11-2010, 10:26 AM
It's heartbreaking what he did to her body.........and the babies.
I'll never forget the roasting hot dog part!
IMO, wife KNEW!
A husband ardly ever VOLUNTEERS to do so much painting etc.
Building a fire pit.....busy man........no help??? JMOO
Topsail Girl
08-11-2010, 01:30 PM
NO way he was able to accomplish all that "remodeling" without the wifey knowing it. I don't understand why she hasn't had some charges against her. IMO she's knew and helped cover all this up.
Topsail Girl
08-11-2010, 01:44 PM
Locals, I was browsing around looking for more updates and just now realized the Goldsboro News Argus now charges for their on line info?? WTH is up with that??
dgfred
08-11-2010, 02:58 PM
Seems they were losing piles of money because everyone was reading on-line
and not actually buying the paper. It happened in the town where my daughter goes to college too, also in NC.
Topsail Girl
08-11-2010, 03:12 PM
Citizen reporter' ejected from Laurean trial
http://www.jdnews.com/articles/laurean-81410-bodycopyrag-reporter.html
Topsail Girl
08-11-2010, 03:15 PM
Looks like the jury is seated. Now let's get on with it!!!
Laurean Jury Final
http://www.wcti12.com/News12.asp
panthera
08-11-2010, 08:04 PM
Jury set for Cesar Laurean murder trial
(video news report)
7 women, 5 men comprise the jury
10 white, 2 black; 2 are former Marines
3 alternates
Opening statements tomorrow morning
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/11/17/breaking-news-jury-set-for-cesar-laurean-murder-tr-ar-329473/
panthera
08-11-2010, 08:19 PM
NO way he was able to accomplish all that "remodeling" without the wifey knowing it. I don't understand why she hasn't had some charges against her. IMO she's knew and helped cover all this up.
IIRC, she also gave him something like a 4 hour head start getting out of town. I've always believed she knew what happened and that Maria was in the back yard, however the DA's office disagrees, so it's just my opinion. I also wonder if she's remained married to him to assert spousal privilege during the trial. :waitasec: MOO
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 09:16 AM
IIRC, she also gave him something like a 4 hour head start getting out of town. I've always believed she knew what happened and that Maria was in the back yard, however the DA's office disagrees, so it's just my opinion. I also wonder if she's remained married to him to assert spousal privilege during the trial. :waitasec: MOO
I will always feel she knew. She is supposed to have found Maria's wallet in her home yet she said she didn't know who it belonged to? Seriously, what wife finds a wallet in their home and doesn't look through it to find out who it belongs to?:innocent:
I think Dewey covered her butt because he needed the letter that Laurean left for her. If she is not guilty of the actual crime itself IMO she is guilty of covering up for a fugitive and giving him a 4 hour leeway in order to escape prosecution. And she would have never told anyone she was talking with him via the internet, the entire time he had been on the lam, if it wasnt for the FBI confiscating her sister's computer.
Who is carrying the trial live? TIA
IMO
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 09:18 AM
Jury set for Cesar Laurean murder trial
(video news report)
7 women, 5 men comprise the jury
10 white, 2 black; 2 are former Marines
3 alternates
Opening statements tomorrow morning
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/11/17/breaking-news-jury-set-for-cesar-laurean-murder-tr-ar-329473/
I wonder why there isnt any hispanics on the jury. There are a lot of hispanics in that area.
IMO
passionflower
08-12-2010, 09:23 AM
IIRC, she also gave him something like a 4 hour head start getting out of town. I've always believed she knew what happened and that Maria was in the back yard, however the DA's office disagrees, so it's just my opinion. I also wonder if she's remained married to him to assert spousal privilege during the trial. :waitasec: MOO
I wonder if she got immunity of some kind for testifying on him at trial???
IF not she should be charged with aiding him on escape!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:29 AM
Can't find the link for live coverage streaming...grrrrr.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 09:30 AM
Ocean, WRAL is carrying the trial live according to their web site.
www.wral.com (http://www.wral.com)
I'm still not seeing it though
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 09:39 AM
Ocean, WRAL is carrying the trial live according to their web site.
www.wral.com (http://www.wral.com)
I'm still not seeing it though
Thank you Topsail. Good to see you again.
Maybe they are starting late.
I read that after Opening Statements Mary Lauterbach will be the first witness.
imo
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:40 AM
AHA!
http://www.wral.com/news/video/8125529/
Oh maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan............ sound SUCKS.
CarolinaMoon
08-12-2010, 09:42 AM
http://www.wral.com/news/video/8125529/
Live, bad transmission
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 09:43 AM
AHA!
http://www.wral.com/news/video/8125529/
Oh maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan............ sound SUCKS.
:banghead::banghead:
OMG The sound is awful. Lot of back noise and the Judge's words are choppy and being cut out.:furious:
IMO
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 09:43 AM
Thank you Topsail. Good to see you again.
Maybe they are starting late.
I read that after Opening Statements Mary Lauterbach will be the first witness.
imo
It's good to see you too, Ocean and Snow Shuze!! Anne (Maria's sister) posted on her facebook last night that their mother was going to be the first to testify. She asked for prayers for her mother...
Opening statement sounds a little better. Still a little broken up though.
fran
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:47 AM
Opening statements/prosecution. Giving details of autopsy.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:50 AM
I should have spent last week reviewing the details of this case. It's been two YEARS now....
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:53 AM
Is it me, or is this prosecutor sounding a little less than passionate? Defense is just beginning and already he sounds more animated....IMO.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:55 AM
State must prove that CL is the perpetrator, and must prove circumstances.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:56 AM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmph. Going with SODDI?
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 09:57 AM
Whoooooooa. Prosecution objected during opening.... Didn't catch the ruling.
Same o, same o.........
drag the victim through the dirt!
grrrr
fran
:mad:
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:00 AM
oh man, he just called her a liar. Objection.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:01 AM
exactly what I was gonna post Fran. Here we go with victim bashing at it's finest - gets old real quick!!!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:01 AM
Send the jury out......... arguing objection
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:03 AM
I get the feeling defense is gonna throw the mrs under the bus.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:05 AM
Credibility is not an issue says prosecution. I agree.
It still presents itself as MOTIVE.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:06 AM
I was thinking the same thing Snowshuze. (both your above posts)
Gosh! Someone needs to contact the broadcaster and tell them to fix their mics! Especially the judge's. They should move the attorney's mic so they don't put their papers on them on that lecturn.
:)
fran
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:07 AM
I barely understood anything the judge said. :(
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:08 AM
I couldn't hear a darn thing the judge was saying!!!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:08 AM
Did anyone catch the ruling?
CarolinaMoon
08-12-2010, 10:09 AM
That is one big-old courtroom! I hear it holds 400!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:09 AM
I don't believe I have ever seen objections during the opening before.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:10 AM
LOL. He stopped calling her a liar, so it must have been over ruled.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:15 AM
Daniel Durham, roomie, is up first.
Looks like they're going to use the wife for reasonable doubt.
fran
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:17 AM
Daniel Durham, roomie, is up first.
WS is having issues now. Taking forever to post. Grrrr.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:25 AM
Daniel is sounding strong and confident. Not nervous at all.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:25 AM
Mr. Durham is a cutie. I can not imagine how he is feeling right now sitting there looking at Laurean.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:27 AM
Defense is up.Asking about issues with car insurance. Objection.sustained.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:29 AM
Apparently insurance lapsed. She could move in after it was resolved. She owed him month and a half rent.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:31 AM
She used his computer..map of Texas that he didn't put on there. Objection over ruled about her discussing plans for baby.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:32 AM
Father of child, objection over ruled. What did she say? Objection over ruled.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:33 AM
Out goes the jury. CL playing with a couple of pens.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:33 AM
Shuze you are rocking this morning!! I'm at werk so I can listen and sneak a peek once in a while. So you are a huge help!! Thank you!!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:36 AM
Defense wants to use the witness statement concerning her saying that she was a victim of rape by NCO. Pressure concerning what to do with baby contributed to mental stabilty.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:37 AM
In other words, the b*tch MADE me kill her? <my words>
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:38 AM
Yep. defense says events led to "tragic event". This is the defense strategy. <thud>
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:38 AM
In other words, the b*tch MADE me kill her?
Exactly. I'll tell ya' Dewey didn't seem very emotional in the opening statements but he's getting the job done now!!!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:40 AM
Objection is over ruled.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:41 AM
I just about have to lip read the judge. <sigh>
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:42 AM
Wishing raisin was here, he'd be doing this so much better than I.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:43 AM
CL looking cool as a cucumber, eh?
dgfred
08-12-2010, 10:43 AM
I wonder why there isnt any hispanics on the jury. There are a lot of hispanics in that area.
IMO
That is for sure. Seems the defense would have wanted at least one :waitasec: .
dgfred
08-12-2010, 10:45 AM
That is one big-old courtroom! I hear it holds 400!
Need alot of room to keep us straight around here :dance: .
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 10:46 AM
Need alot of room to keep us straight around here :dance: .
LOL I've only ever seen the outside of it.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:46 AM
Next up Special Agent Chip .SBI.Computer Crimes Unit.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:52 AM
Attended crime scene.Google map of Richlands introduced as evidence.
The agent is explaining, via a google map exhibit, a description of the area where the crime scene was. It was a mix of farm type land and houses. I think he meant larger type lots.
He's also explaining the roads around and how to get to base and the city, etc.
fran
PS...he's using a green, (I think),. laser light for his illustration.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 10:57 AM
Is prosecution setting up a connection for the google maps for how they deducted where to search for Maria?
To clarify.....Did Maria google the maps on Daniels computer?
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 10:58 AM
Same o, same o.........
drag the victim through the dirt!
grrrr
fran
:mad:
Well I don't think that is the case Fran especially in this case. The jury just cant go from what happened January 11th on when Maria's body was found. They must know the mind set of the defendant and the victim to determine what happened and why.
McNeil is using evidence to prove her credibility. Like he said even her own mother called Maria a pathological liar. I am sure he will introduce that email when she testifies.
And it seems they have no evidence that Maria was lured to his home but went willingly.
IMO
I'm not sure. I can hardly hear them when they're not by the mics.
It sounds like he's just explaining the directions and possible destinations of roads leading from the crime scene.
I don't know, it seems they're trying to establish why Maria ended up at that house? or how HE escaped or why he ended up where he did?
fran
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 11:01 AM
LOL. He stopped calling her a liar, so it must have been over ruled.
He allowed Maria's credibility to come in.
IMO
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:03 AM
I don't think it should matter one whit on WHY she was there. Nothing she said, or did, deserves being killed and placed in a pit and set on fire. <edited because I'm not sure I remember correctly>
Some kind of break. Don't know if coffee break or lunch.
fran
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 11:04 AM
Is prosecution setting up a connection for the google maps for how they deducted where to search for Maria?
To clarify.....Did Maria google the maps on Daniels computer?
Now that is a great question.
I think they are just giving an overview map of where the location is.
I am sure Sheriff Brown will testify that he found Maria's body.
IMO
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:06 AM
<mad dash to potty and refill, lol>
At the end there, it sounded like he was trying to establish how many homes in that area had fire-pits or if there were any others in the area mapped? :mad:
fran
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 11:08 AM
I don't think it should matter one whit on WHY she was there. Nothing she said, or did, deserves being killed and placed in a pit and set on fire. <edited because I'm not sure I remember correctly>
But it does snowshuze. The jury must have a overall view of what happened and that question has been asked more than any other question on the MB sites. So of course the jury is going to question it also.
What it may show though is it was not a premeditated act but a crime of passion erupting from a highly heated argument that ensued when she came to his home.
IMO
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 11:08 AM
Did anyone catch SA Chip's last name? I'm trying to keep up with who has testified. I made a copy of the potential witness list so I'm keeping notes of who each witness is and what the contribute (or not) to the trial.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:10 AM
Did anyone catch SA Chip's last name? I'm trying to keep up with who has testified. I made a copy of the potential witness list so I'm keeping notes of who each witness is and what the contribute (or not) to the trial.
Hyram something.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 11:10 AM
Shuze you do recall correctly about the friends being over for a barbacoa. It was just rumored but I don't know if it was ever proven that the barbacoa actually happened. IMO
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Yep that is it Hiram Jr. Thanks Snowshuze!!
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Did anyone catch SA Chip's last name? I'm trying to keep up with who has testified. I made a copy of the potential witness list so I'm keeping notes of who each witness is and what the contribute (or not) to the trial.
Darn I didn't Top but on another site I read this is the man that is running uncontested for Dewey's office since Dewey is going to retire.
IMO
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 11:12 AM
Recess! Looks as if this trial will move at a snails pace.
I agree that Laurean is sitting there looking as if he is not worried at all. Kind of detached, actually.
I have waited so long for this trial that I am going to watch every single second of it. This video and sound may not be great, but at least there are no commercial interruptions!
Justice is on the way!
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:12 AM
But it does snowshuze. The jury must have a overall view of what happened and that question has been asked more than any other question on the MB sites. So of course the jury is going to question it also.
What it may show though is it was not a premeditated act but a crime of passion erupting from a highly heated argument that ensued when she came to his home.
IMO
Respectfully..... I think the pit burning part disqualifies the Crime of Passion theory.
ETA: Daggone it. I'm smacking myself for not reviewing. I could argue better if I could recall details. :(
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 11:16 AM
Respectfully..... I think the pit burning part disqualifies the Crime of Passion theory.
It really doesn't snow. That has nothing to do with the crime itself or whether it was a crime of passion or premeditated.
He has already admitted he buried her in his backyard.
I perfectly understand this is an emotional case but I try very hard to just look at how the act came to be. Burying her is after the fact.
IMO
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 11:16 AM
Darn I didn't Top but on another site I read this is the man that is running uncontested for Dewey's office since Dewey is going to retire.
IMO
Hmm interesting Ocean I didn't know that. You'd think I would since I'm a part time resident of the neighboring county of Pender. His name is actually Hiram N. Coble Jr. according to the witness list. I'll be sure to keep an eye and ear out now for this man.
dgfred
08-12-2010, 11:17 AM
Respectfully..... I think the pit burning part disqualifies the Crime of Passion theory.
ETA: Daggone it. I'm smacking myself for not reviewing. I could argue better if I could recall details. :(
Not really, since burning in the pit was after the murder.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:18 AM
I had this all figured out in my head two yrs ago, lol.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:22 AM
We're back. Describing house.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Ocean and dgfred I understand what you are saying. It's like he killed her in a fit of rage. Suddenly he finds himself with a dead pregnant woman (no offense to Maria) and it's like oh carp now what do I do?? To me, it seems like having a camp fire containing her body should be premeditation but I realize it is not - sadly, that gruesome part was after the fact and does not contribute to whether or not it was a crime of passion or premeditated. IMO
dgfred
08-12-2010, 11:26 AM
Well, premeditation is a problem because she came back to his house a second time. Surely she was 'planning' to leave from the bus stop but for some reason didn't... sure would like to know why.
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 11:27 AM
The fire pit was an attempt at a coverup after the murder had taken place, IMO.
They're just showing slides of the crime scene house. Photos entered as exhibits.
fran
Discussing observations of garage. It was full of yard equipt and boxes, Xmas deco, containers (plastic).
On top of blue container substance appeared to be dried blood.
As he continued, he noticed blood on edge of container, floor, south wall, (exterior wall), exposed portion of cinder block wall and sheet rock. Small droplets of blood.
Giving names of other agents with him. They decided to split up and investigate the entire scene, each with their own duties. One searching, pointing out to others possible evidence and then they would photo, etc.
fran
dgfred
08-12-2010, 11:40 AM
By exterior wall do you mean outside the house fran?
Back yard, 2/3rds of way from the house, disturbed area. Lined with cinder blocks and charred appearance.
Id'ing more pictures of scene. Back yard. Area of disturbed, charred area and cinder block. Shows privacy fence and portion where some of fence appears to be missing.
Photo facing back of house, looking east, see pool and part of fence and charred area. Now a closer up image of (fire pit, not his words)
fran
By exterior wall do you mean outside the house fran?
No, garage is attached. It's the portion of the garage wall that isn't backed up to the house. But it's inside the garage.
Does that make sense,
fran
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:42 AM
Something I read way back when tipped me to the premeditated side. I'll go back and read tonight to refresh my memory. What I am trying to say is that the pit burning contributes to the heinousness, because I think he PLANNED to kill her, even if it only took a few minutes to do so.
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 11:48 AM
Yall, I'm having problems with live streaming, and WS loading.
Just gonna read here for awhile.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 12:23 PM
I was for a while but it seems to be fine now. Can yall see Mary? I don't know who that is with her. I feel so so badly for her.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 12:33 PM
Back in session at 2 - lunch break. Goody, now I'm off to stuff my face!!
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 12:38 PM
Back in session at 2 - lunch break. Goody, now I'm off to stuff my face!!
Good. It gives me time to do what I should have been doing all morning.
IMO
snowshuze
08-12-2010, 02:06 PM
Back from recess, but no sound here. :(
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 02:08 PM
me neither
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 02:12 PM
as an FYI - there is the defenses opening statement video on the wral site down in the right corner. ETA - also prosecutions opening statement
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 02:18 PM
I refreshed and now have video and sound. Finally!
ohiogirl
08-12-2010, 02:55 PM
Anyone there?
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:05 PM
I'm here writing my notes so I can post an update
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:13 PM
Darn the witnesses are going so quickly now. Be patient I'm trying to keep my notes but I'll post soon.
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 03:30 PM
Recess
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:33 PM
Witness 3 - Cecil Jones - Found Maria's cell phone on the shoulder of the road as he was enter the base. Basiclly he just looked the phone over and verified that it was the one he found.
Witness 4 LCPL Blake Costa - friend of Cesars and aquaintance of Maria's. He spoke with Cesar (upon Cesar's request) regarding Maria's rape allegation and pregnancy. Cesar wanted Costa's help in talking Maria into moving to Mexico so the HE could salvage his career. Cesar was not supposed to speak with Maria so he wanted Costa to help him set up an accidental "bumping into" Maria at the local Wal-mart to speak to her about deserting the military so that he could salvage his career. Told Costa that he had family in Mexico for Maria to stay with. Costa didn't help and suggested on numerous occastions that Cesar seek civil counsel. Costa had driven Cesars truck several times and they together had helped another Marine move furniture in Cesars truck. So more than likely Costa's finger prints would be on Cesars truck. Defense asks why are you now a LCPL when you were a CPL - Dewey objected - sustained. The allegation of rape was not common knowledge within the military. Costa only knew because Cesar told him and asked for his help. Costa was interviewed by NCIS and told them about the truck and moving and using it several times and agreed to DNA testing.
ETA - if I post something that doesn't make sense please let me know so I can edit it to make sense LOL. My fingers are gonna be nubs by the time this trial is done LOL
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:34 PM
Recess
Thank goodness maybe I can catch up now
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:41 PM
Witness 5 - Pamela Chavis - worked on base in the exchange in the gift shop. On Dec 11th or 12th saw Cesar and Maria together in the store 9for the last time). Cesar was looking for a gift for his grandmother. Pamela saw them together very often and was positive it was Maria she saw accompanying Cesar on many occastions. Described Maria as very pregnant. She saw Maria and Cesar together during the lunch hour 11:30 to 1 daily. They were together almost daily in the exchange.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:42 PM
Witness 6 -SSgt Randolph Ruvert- Gunnery Sgt Supervisor - over Laurean. Questioning about the rifle range and establishing a route to the rifle range. Sorry I missed quite a bit of this witness and then they took the break.
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 03:44 PM
You are doing great, Topsail Girl, and accurate as well! Thank you!
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:45 PM
I know I don't get all the prosecution asked this and defense asked that - It's all I can do to write what I can hear LOL but I'm trying.
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 03:49 PM
Dang! The microphone was adjusted and now I cannot hear the witness!
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 03:54 PM
Now I can hear!
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 03:57 PM
LaLaw did you catch this witnesses name??
ohiogirl
08-12-2010, 03:57 PM
What good does it do to keep the witnesses out of the courtroom so they can't hear the testimony. If they really want to know what is going on, they can just record it from the tv at home.
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 04:02 PM
Very good question, Ohiogirl
lonetraveler
08-12-2010, 04:08 PM
Locals, I was browsing around looking for more updates and just now realized the Goldsboro News Argus now charges for their on line info?? WTH is up with that??
Hi, I missed yesterday (had some outpatient surgery) and I'm just now checking in to see what is happening. I'm having trouble hearing on the WRAL live link. Is there another one with better sound. I found out the other day about the News Argus charging for their on-line paper............
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 04:18 PM
Glad to see you back Lonetraveler. Did anyone catch the name of the Seargeant that was on before Roshaun Hames? He was a black gentleman with civilian clothing on. Maria worked for him after the MPO was in place. I didn't catch his name.
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 04:52 PM
LaLaw did you catch this witnesses name??
Sorry, Topsail Girl! I am just now coming back to the thread.
Court is in recess until 9:30 tomorrow morning.
That Hames guy was sometthing else!
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Glad to see you back Lonetraveler. Did anyone catch the name of the Seargeant that was on before Roshaun Hames? He was a black gentleman with civilian clothing on. Maria worked for him after the MPO was in place. I didn't catch his name.
Sorry, Topsail Girl! I could not hear the name.
LaLaw2000
08-12-2010, 04:56 PM
Hi, I missed yesterday (had some outpatient surgery) and I'm just now checking in to see what is happening. I'm having trouble hearing on the WRAL live link. Is there another one with better sound. I found out the other day about the News Argus charging for their on-line paper............
Hope you are doing well, lonetraveler!
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 05:17 PM
No worries LaLaw - so after Hames and then the day care worker Kim something was thre anyone esle that testified? I left werk to come home. I will update the witness testimoney in just a few. I've gotta pop over and talk to Anne Lautherbach and see how she and her mom are holding up.
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 05:23 PM
What a day.
I know this has to be hard for Mary to hear. She really thought that Maria was fearful of Cesar and they didn't have an intimate relationship.
One thing I am convinced of now is the allegations of rape were false.
imo
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 06:53 PM
Hey Ocean. I too am convinced of that and I think Maria was in love with Cesar and wanted so badly to make him believe it was his child she was carrying. Still, no matter what her mental condition, she and that baby didn't deserve death.
Did anyone else "hear" or think they "heard" Roshaun Hames say that her car was in a different parking space when he returned to work?
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 07:05 PM
Witness 7 - Sgt. Trocon Brumskine - Maria was assigned to his unit after the MPO was in place. She expressed happiness and relief that the MPO was in place. Maria had expressed to Brumskine that she wanted out of the military because of the rape. She never mentioned to Brumskine that she was with Cesar after the MPO was in place, that she had been with himm during her lunch break. He voluntarily talked/spoke to NCIS.
Winess 8 - Roshuan Hames - Greyhoud Bus Station Ticket Agent. Recognized Maria - pony tail very pregnant. Bought a ticket to El Paso leaving the next day. Maria questioned him about leaving her vehicle at the bus station. He identified her vehicle. At that time he werked Mon-Fri. She went on to tell him that she was pregnant by someone on base and thought she was going to be with him but it was not to be. Hames returned to work after vacation and Maria's car was not parked in the same spot as the days before. He did not move the vehicle.
Witness 9 - Kim Bucek - Day Care Owner. Usually Cesar dropped off the child and Christina would pick her up. The child must be signed in and signed out each day on a log by the owner's desk. The Laurean's each had unique hand writing styles and it was easy to tell the difference. The day of the murder there was simply initials on the log and Kim could not distinguish which one of the Laurean's signed their daughter out. I left work at this point and that's all I got.
Witness 10 - OCSD Office Frank Terwilliger - he found Maria's car at 9:30-ish at night. That's all I got.
Witness 11 - unknown.
panthera
08-12-2010, 08:03 PM
I wonder if she got immunity of some kind for testifying on him at trial???
IF not she should be charged with aiding him on escape!
BBM
At least that, imo.
panthera
08-12-2010, 08:05 PM
What a day.
I know this has to be hard for Mary to hear. She really thought that Maria was fearful of Cesar and they didn't have an intimate relationship.
One thing I am convinced of now is the allegations of rape were false.
imo
Just catching up now after a long day at work and I totally missed the trial. However, the first thing I've noticed looking for updates is now we know what the defense strategy is....and if they're good, they could put some seed of doubt in at least one juror's mind. MOO
panthera
08-12-2010, 08:16 PM
(respectfully snipped)
Witness 9 - Kim Bucek - Day Care Owner. Usually Cesar dropped off the child and Christina would pick her up. The child must be signed in and signed out each day on a log by the owner's desk. The Laurean's each had unique hand writing styles and it was easy to tell the difference. The day of the murder there was simply initials on the log and Kim could not distinguish which one of the Laurean's signed their daughter out. I left work at this point and that's all I got.
Since I imagine this witness would've been questioned early on in the investigation, did she say anything about kinowing for certain just who picked the child up that day? I realize you are saying she couldn't identify the "signature" (initials) however did she have any recall of Cesar ever coming in the evening or was she asked? :waitasec:
panthera
08-12-2010, 08:21 PM
Witness 5 - Pamela Chavis - worked on base in the exchange in the gift shop. On Dec 11th or 12th saw Cesar and Maria together in the store 9for the last time). Cesar was looking for a gift for his grandmother. Pamela saw them together very often and was positive it was Maria she saw accompanying Cesar on many occastions. Described Maria as very pregnant. She saw Maria and Cesar together during the lunch hour 11:30 to 1 daily. They were together almost daily in the exchange.
This sounds very interesting! And isn't the grandmother in Mexico? At least it seems more information came out today regarding the bus ticket for El Paso and where Maria was supposed to go from there.
oceanblueeyes
08-12-2010, 08:23 PM
Hey Ocean. I too am convinced of that and I think Maria was in love with Cesar and wanted so badly to make him believe it was his child she was carrying. Still, no matter what her mental condition, she and that baby didn't deserve death.
Did anyone else "hear" or think they "heard" Roshaun Hames say that her car was in a different parking space when he returned to work?
Of course she didn't deserve this and he is going to pay for what he has done.
But I do agree with McNeil that all facts have to be told so that the jury can determine if this is a case of premeditated murder or a crime of passion. They have to know what led up to this and the mind set of the victim as well as what could have been in the defendant's mind at the time.
This was like a perfect storm forming. Nothing good ever comes out of falsehoods. It will just continue to get worse and worse.
I do feel he killed her but I do not believe he premeditated it. If so there were a 156,000 acres right on base that he could have lured her to go to rather than his own home. I knew when Dewey didnt charge him with kidnapping she came there on her own free will.
Maybe she did lead him on to believe Gabriel was his. Maybe he really had made arrangements with his family to take care of her and his baby. He said he loved her and I think maybe he did but somehow things went terribly wrong that day when she came back there. Maybe she told him then that Gabriel was not his and it threw him into a murderous rage that she had lied to him all this time. Maybe she knew once the baby was born it would not favor Cesar and his family would know it too and that is why she got cold feet.
I don't really know what happened in that home that day but words said can ignite the worst behavior in a person when emotions are at fever pitch.
IMO
panthera
08-12-2010, 08:33 PM
Some trial video from today at this link - :online:
http://www.wral.com/news/local/page/2298776/
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 08:34 PM
Since I imagine this witness would've been questioned early on in the investigation, did she say anything about kinowing for certain just who picked the child up that day? I realize you are saying she couldn't identify the "signature" (initials) however did she have any recall of Cesar ever coming in the evening or was she asked? :waitasec:
From MY OPINION - she was up and down the "hall" in the day care making sure the babies ad toddlers were being taken care of. She did not see who picked up the child.
panthera
08-12-2010, 08:39 PM
From MY OPINION - she was up and down the "hall" in the day care making sure the babies ad toddlers were being taken care of. She did not see who picked up the child.
If that's true it's not exactly the most secure day-care, imo! A sign-in/out sheet with only initials on it, and *if* she didn't see who picked up the child, it could've been almost anyone. MOO
Topsail Girl
08-12-2010, 08:40 PM
This sounds very interesting! And isn't the grandmother in Mexico? At least it seems more information came out today regarding the bus ticket for El Paso and where Maria was supposed to go from there.
I do believe some of his family was in El Paso and some was in Mexico but I don't recall who was where.
Again just an FYI - I'm going to tape the trial tomorrow but also I'm going to do the best I can to follow it at werk. I'm guessing that most of my updates will be after 5 tomorrow.
On another note - I did talk (via email) to Anne right after 6 but I've tried to email her since and can not reach her. At 6 Mary was "doing ok today was tough seeing the pics of Maria's body and that of Maria's son." Which is to be expected. I have not been able to reach her (Anne) since.
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 09:13 AM
Good Morning Posters!! Getting set for another day....
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 10:37 AM
Just wanted to say thank you to Topsail Girl and the others for the detailed coverage. I can't access any of the news sites at work, but luckily I found this gem of a page. IMHO you've all done a great job of reporting the testimony objectively, and I appreciate the thoughtful commentary.
I'm anxious to see what the prosecution presents today, especially regarding the premeditation aspect. Hudson really needs to clarify the definition of premeditation, especially considering McNeill seems to be including "crime of passion" in his everything but the kitchen sink defense. Premeditation doesn't have a defined time frame, meaning it can be formed weeks, days, minutes and sometimes even seconds prior to the murder. As long as they can show that he picked up that crow bar and swung it at her head with the intent to cause her death, they have a decent argument for first degree murder. I'm honestly more worried about the "maybe Christina did it" angle creating some reasonable doubt, and possibly a hung jury.
Only time will tell I suppose, just hoping that end result provides some justice and closure for Maria's family.
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 10:48 AM
Awesome post GeekyGirl!! My fear is the "maybe Christina did it" angle as well. All it takes is reasonable doubt in one juror's mind. Hudson has to be anticipating the Christina did it excuse. I hope he has some air tight evidence.....
So far this morning only witess number 12 is on. Frank Davis who is a Security/ATM Security and ATM Crimes specialist for Marine Federal Credit Union. He is still on the stand and I'm still making notes.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 11:10 AM
OMG the neighbor next door said he saw the car like Maria's in front of the Laurean home when both Christina and Laurean's vehicles were there on at least two occasions.
And it wasnt a BBQ.......it was a bonfire that he thinks occurred around December 27th.
IMO
LaLaw2000
08-13-2010, 11:20 AM
Very interesting morning! Recess now.
Am anxious to see what else today brings. I like the ADA better than Hudson, and hope he does most of the questioning.
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 11:32 AM
Witness 12 - Frank Davis - basically he testified that Cesar did try to use Maria's card on 12-24 four times beginning at 17:00 and ending at 17:03. First 2 attempts failed for wrong PIN number. Last 2 attempts failed due to non sufficient funds.
Witness 13 - Malo Menard - lived next door to Laurean's but didn't know them other than a casual greeting when going into or out of their homes. Malo had used a section of Laurean's fence that was torn down as a ramp for his remote cars. Late December the piece of fencing was gone. Malo thinks the bon fire was around the 27th of December and there were 6 or 7 people in attendance not including the Laurean's. Malo testified that the Laurean's had never had a bon fire before and very rarely were visitors over at the Laurean's. Malo said that on more than one occasion all 3 vehicles were there together then he clarified that he saw all 3 there on two different occasions both times in late December.
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 11:37 AM
*sigh* I really wish that I could watch this. IMHO the prosecution really needs to be making a clear distinction between the actual murder and the steps taken to conceal the murder because they are two entirely separate crimes. From everything I've read, and from talking to plenty of people who were pretty close to the action, I personally believe that Christina was eyeball deep in the cover-up. However, I've yet to see any verifiable evidence that she was involved in the murder. I'm worried that if the DA doesn't create a clear distinction between the events, it'll be enough for reasonable doubt in at least one juror's mind. Hudson had to know the defense was going to go for spousal privilege, which again, is a concept not a lot of people are familiar with. He needs to make clear that if Christina doesn't testify, it's bc Cesar won't waive privilege.
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 11:42 AM
Witness 14 - Richard Alander - former neighbor of the Laurean's. His testimoeny was pretty much the same as Malo except he said he thought the bon fire was closer to New Year's Eve. Same story about the remote cars. He said he could not say for sure if he ever saw the 3 cars together at the Laurean home because he was not sure if Christina's SUV was there but he was sure Cesar's truck was there. His wife complained of the smell when Cesar was burning the bon fire. Richard told his wife that it was probably trash he was burning. He recalls Cesar driving Maria's car. He was in the yard playing with his remote car and saw Cesar driving it in late December.
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 11:44 AM
Witness 15 - Special Agent Randy Dulay NCIS - computer guru - boring but I know he is gonna give some important info so I'm TRYING to pay attention LOL
dgfred
08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
I've been assuming since the beginning that his wife was also Latino... guess that shows what you are doing when you 'assume'. Not that Latino or not matters one bit.
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 01:21 PM
SA Dulay dropped some good testimony!!! He stated that he retrieved the index.dat file from Internet Explorer for the user accout Cesar Laurean. This file lists the history or website visits or google searches, etc. SOme of what he found
1/08/08 Google search "what happens in a homicide investigation"
1/08/08 Google Book Search "what happens in a homicide investigation"
01/07/08 Reeds Jewelry and one other I thnk Kay Jeweler
01/07/08 Welch Law Firm - very high profile defense attorney
01/07/08 Googled " Criminal Defense Lawyers in Jacksonville NC"
01/03/08 Mapquest request for a map from 103 Meadow to 2805 Highwoods Blvd in Raleigh NC - this was on the THIRD of January.
01/08/08 Goggled Puerto Vallarta employment via classified ads on the internet and a web site called Puerto Vallarta Jobs Employment and Careers
That is I got from him because the camera and sound was yanked to go outside for the live shot at noon for the news. GGRRRRR
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 01:25 PM
Well the darn feed went down just when the agent was talking about Maria's searches and if there were any searches to El Paso or Mexico.
We didnt get to hear what he said. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
I hope the reporters tell what was said when the feed went out and we missed the testimony about searches on Christina's computer too.
:banghead::banghead:
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 01:26 PM
Witness 16 - Special Agent Graham Grafton. Sorry I didn't get any of his testimony.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 01:28 PM
SA Dulay dropped some good testimony!!! He stated that he retrieved the index.dat file from Internet Explorer for the user accout Cesar Laurean. This file lists the history or website visits or google searches, etc. SOme of what he found
1/08/08 Google search "what happens in a homicide investigation"
1/08/08 Google Book Search "what happens in a homicide investigation"
01/07/08 Reeds Jewelry and one other I thnk Kay Jeweler
01/07/08 Welch Law Firm - very high profile defense attorney
01/07/08 Googled " Criminal Defense Lawyers in Jacksonville NC"
01/03/08 Mapquest request for a map from 103 Meadow to 2805 Highwoods Blvd in Raleigh NC - this was on the THIRD of January.
01/08/08 Goggled Puerto Vallarta employment via classified ads on the internet and a web site called Puerto Vallarta Jobs Employment and Careers
That is I got from him because the camera and sound was yanked to go outside for the live shot at noon for the news. GGRRRRR
Well I was sort of disappointed that is all they say they found.
We all knew before now he had contacted a lawyer and had even gone to see him before he left for Mexico.
He was starting on Maria's when the reporter came on and the court feed went out.
IMO
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 01:31 PM
Witness 16 - Special Agent Graham Grafton. Sorry I didn't get any of his testimony.
He really didnt reveal much. He was asked by McNeil if he was married to Grafton who was in charge of investigation into the sexual assault alligations and he said "yes". He asked had charges ever been brought against Laurean on that case and he said "no".
IMO
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 01:40 PM
You know I was pretty sure that Roshaun Hames said Maria's car had been moved while he was off duty and I waivered on posting about it but in the end I did. Now I'm even more convinced that her car WAS parked in a differnt spot because Richard Alander testified that he saw Cesar driving Maria's car in late December. He (Cesar) must have been taking it back to the bus stop.
STEADFAST
08-13-2010, 01:44 PM
SA Dulay dropped some good testimony!!! He stated that he retrieved the index.dat file from Internet Explorer for the user accout Cesar Laurean. This file lists the history or website visits or google searches, etc. SOme of what he found
1/08/08 Google search "what happens in a homicide investigation"
1/08/08 Google Book Search "what happens in a homicide investigation"
01/07/08 Reeds Jewelry and one other I thnk Kay Jeweler
01/07/08 Welch Law Firm - very high profile defense attorney
01/07/08 Googled " Criminal Defense Lawyers in Jacksonville NC"
01/03/08 Mapquest request for a map from 103 Meadow to 2805 Highwoods Blvd in Raleigh NC - this was on the THIRD of January.
01/08/08 Goggled Puerto Vallarta employment via classified ads on the internet and a web site called Puerto Vallarta Jobs Employment and Careers
That is I got from him because the camera and sound was yanked to go outside for the live shot at noon for the news. GGRRRRR
This might be what was said when they went away:
'In Laureans work desk investigators also found a sticky note with the names of criminal defense attorneys and a notepad that had written on it, "Arizona Airport (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/facility/tags/arizona-airport/)."
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/13/19/witness-testimony-expected-continue-cesar-laurean--ar-332711/
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 03:04 PM
Witness 17 - CWO2 Joel Larsen. He was Cesars commanding office until Cesar went UA. Larsen knew of the rape allegations and testified that he asked Cesar very pointed questions regarding a relationship or if there was any truth to the rape allegation. Cesar denied a relationship with Maria and also denied the rape allegation. The Christmas party was in the gym on base. About 500 people were there including spouses and children of the marines. Cesar did not go. ON 12/27/07 Cesar told Larsen that Marie had sent him flowers and that he (cesar) threw them in the trash. Larsen testified that he never saw flowers or a card. Larsen was of the opinion that it was strange that Maria who was UA at the time would send flowers to anyone risking her hiding spot. On 01/08/08 NCIS asked to speak with Laurean and Larsen accompanied him to their office. Laurean invoked his right to an attorney and upon leaving NCIS began asking Larsen numerous questions regarding his career in the military. IF MARIA NEVER COMES BACK WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO MY ARTICLE 32 HEARING? Cesar wanted to know why Mary Lauterbach was in NC. Larsen explained because Maria was UA. When a soldier goes UA you can not list them as a deserter for 30 days. Larsen tried to get Maria listed as a deserter soon after she went UA due to her late stages of pregnancy and some other "issues". She did not meet the criteria. The last time Larsen saw Cesar was around 11am on 01/10/08. Larsens opinion of Maria is that she stretched the truth. Flowers were actually supposedly sent to Christina - not Cesar. Larsen's previous opinion of Cesar being a stellar Marine is no longer his opinion. (He looks very upset to me IMO)
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 03:39 PM
Witness 18 - Mariane Puneda. She was Christina's commanding officer. Saw an article on MSN (I think that what she said) about a missing Marine. She asked the marines in her building if anyone knew anything about it. Christina later went to her office crying and very upset. Mariane was going to say Christina told me her husband -but it was objected to. ARGH!! I believe this was on 01/08/08. On 01/10/08 Mariane met Christina in town and Mariane said Christina was extremely upset even more than 2 days before. Mariane drove Christina to Attorney Paul Castle's office. Mariane was called by her COI and was told to get Christina out of the attorney's office immediately. Mariane tried but could not and 2 more attorneys and 2 NCIS officers came in and got Christina out of there and took her to Onslow County Sheriff Dept. Mariane went with her and at the request of the deputies, Mariane took Christina back to her house to stay because the Deputies did not want Christina to go home. Twice that same day Mariane went with Christina near her (Christina's) house, again at the request of the deputies.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 04:07 PM
Witness 17 - CWO2 Joel Larsen. He was Cesars commanding office until Cesar went UA. Larsen knew of the rape allegations and testified that he asked Cesar very pointed questions regarding a relationship or if there was any truth to the rape allegation. Cesar denied a relationship with Maria and also denied the rape allegation. The Christmas party was in the gym on base. About 500 people were there including spouses and children of the marines. Cesar did not go. ON 12/27/07 Cesar told Larsen that Marie had sent him flowers and that he (cesar) threw them in the trash. Larsen testified that he never saw flowers or a card. Larsen was of the opinion that it was strange that Maria who was UA at the time would send flowers to anyone risking her hiding spot. On 01/08/08 NCIS asked to speak with Laurean and Larsen accompanied him to their office. Laurean invoked his right to an attorney and upon leaving NCIS began asking Larsen numerous questions regarding his career in the military. IF MARIA NEVER COMES BACK WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO MY ARTICLE 32 HEARING? Cesar wanted to know why Mary Lauterbach was in NC. Larsen explained because Maria was UA. When a soldier goes UA you can not list them as a deserter for 30 days. Larsen tried to get Maria listed as a deserter soon after she went UA due to her late stages of pregnancy and some other "issues". She did not meet the criteria. The last time Larsen saw Cesar was around 11am on 01/10/08. Larsens opinion of Maria is that she stretched the truth. Flowers were actually supposedly sent to Christina - not Cesar. Larsen's previous opinion of Cesar being a stellar Marine is no longer his opinion. (He looks very upset to me IMO)
I found him to be such a genuine man. He has to look across the room at the prior Marine that he had rated in the top 3 OICs in his entire 18 years of military service. He seemed to still be shocked that this has happened.
I didn't think he looked upset but he did look sad. I know it pained him to know this is how it ended and that he had to tell the truth that Maria's reputation in the Corps was being untruthful.
Of course his opinion has changed. No Marine ever finds honor in a Marine who fled and went AWOL or finds themself in a courtroom charged with murder.
IMO
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 04:43 PM
Actually Ocean, I think sad is a better description than upset. He was a very genuine man to me as well. I agree I think he is still in shock and just cant wrap his mind around it all.
I left work and I'm now home the last witness I saw was Deputy Daniel McCloud from WCSO and he was just being questioned about Cesar's truck. Ocean, did you catch any of it? If so could you fill me in on what I missed, please?
Topsail Girl
08-13-2010, 04:47 PM
Witness 19 Mary Yordy - found Maria's military VISA card in the weeds att he bus station on Chapel Hill Rd in Durham. She took it into the bus terminal and a worker immediately recognized the name so he had her walk across the street to the police station and turn it in.
Witness 20 Officer C J Wisnieski Durham PD - testified that he took the card from Mary Yordy. Forensics from Onslow County arrived and took the card. Durham County Forensics searched the bus station inside and out. Officer Wisnieski also reviewed Passenger Manifests for Cesar's name as he was advised to do by OCSD's BOLO alert.
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 05:24 PM
Wow... I finally got a chance to back and watch some of the testimony from yesterday. The most interesting thing (which actually doesn't relate to the murder) I heard hasn't yet been mentioned. The Marine that testified about Cesar wanting Maria to go to Mexico also said that the consensual sex may have have occurred at a party at Cesar's house, and the Marine thought that because Christina hadn't yet been activated, she and the child weren't living in the area. I suppose it's not a big deal, but that completely changes how I envisioned Maria and Cesar's relationship evolving.
Again, this is entirely speculation on my part, but it's not at all uncommon for Marines who are geo-bachelors to hide the fact that are married or misrepresent the state of their marriage (i.e. "we're getting a divorce"). If that was the case, I can only imagine how upset Maria was when she found out the truth. It's a pretty strong argument against McNeill's claim that the "relationship" was a fantasy in Maria's mind and speaks to the truthfulness of Cesar's character.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 06:31 PM
Actually Ocean, I think sad is a better description than upset. He was a very genuine man to me as well. I agree I think he is still in shock and just cant wrap his mind around it all.
I left work and I'm now home the last witness I saw was Deputy Daniel McCloud from WCSO and he was just being questioned about Cesar's truck. Ocean, did you catch any of it? If so could you fill me in on what I missed, please?
He convinced me that all of this is totally out of character for Cesar Laurean.
Another reason why I dont feel he premeditated this.
IMO
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 06:34 PM
Wow... I finally got a chance to back and watch some of the testimony from yesterday. The most interesting thing (which actually doesn't relate to the murder) I heard hasn't yet been mentioned. The Marine that testified about Cesar wanting Maria to go to Mexico also said that the consensual sex may have have occurred at a party at Cesar's house, and the Marine thought that because Christina hadn't yet been activated, she and the child weren't living in the area. I suppose it's not a big deal, but that completely changes how I envisioned Maria and Cesar's relationship evolving.
Again, this is entirely speculation on my part, but it's not at all uncommon for Marines who are geo-bachelors to hide the fact that are married or misrepresent the state of their marriage (i.e. "we're getting a divorce"). If that was the case, I can only imagine how upset Maria was when she found out the truth. It's a pretty strong argument against McNeill's claim that the "relationship" was a fantasy in Maria's mind and speaks to the truthfulness of Cesar's character.
Thanks for the information. I missed that.
But I do think she knew he was married since she was in the same department working right along beside him before the rape allegations and I read when the case first unfolded that everyone knew he was married and he talked about his wife and little girl a lot.
IMO
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 06:50 PM
Ocean, I understand where you're coming from, and truthfully, I'm not sure what I believe. I will say that Ive spent a lot of time working closely with Sailors and Marines and there have been many occasions where I've honestly thought they were single, only to find out otherwise when their wives finally moved to the area (luckily for me, I don't get involved with people I work with). Also, when did he start talking about the wife and kid? It would make sense for him to project a "family man" image if he knew that he was possibly going to be charged with rape, or at the very least adultery. Again, this all pure speculation, and in the end, immaterial as it doesn't change the fact that she was murdered.
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 07:29 PM
He convinced me that all of this is totally out of character for Cesar Laurean.
Another reason why I dont feel he premeditated this.
IMO
I swear, I'm not trying to pick on you Ocean, but this is an interesting comment. I agree that murder seems to be out of character for Cesar, and I really don't think he's a cold blooded person who's first thought was " if I kill her, all this goes away". I do however, think he was an outstanding Marine who had the potential for extremely successful career. I think he loved being a Marine, and was probably aware that his chances of having similar success in the civilian sector were pretty slim. I also believe he made a stupid mistake and got involved with a young girl who lacked some emotional maturity and self esteem and things got out of control.
He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternazation, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.
I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.
I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 07:36 PM
Ocean, I understand where you're coming from, and truthfully, I'm not sure what I believe. I will say that Ive spent a lot of time working closely with Sailors and Marines and there have been many occasions where I've honestly thought they were single, only to find out otherwise when their wives finally moved to the area (luckily for me, I don't get involved with people I work with). Also, when did he start talking about the wife and kid? It would make sense for him to project a "family man" image if he knew that he was possibly going to be charged with rape, or at the very least adultery. Again, this all pure speculation, and in the end, immaterial as it doesn't change the fact that she was murdered.
From the females that did interviews that worked with Laurean he seemed to have always done this. They said he absolutely adored his daughter, Abreanna and talked with the females about what diapers they used and what kind they did. Just normal chit chat. The Officer that testified today said they were about 10 people in his area including Lauterbach until she was moved after the rape allegation.
I haven't heard anyone say that Laurean told others he was single. And if he took her to his own home then today one of the witnesses said that family photos were in the home showing a family lived there. Jewelry boxes, clothing, toys etc.
Christina was working in Raleigh irrc and that isn't that far to come home on the weekends is it or maybe it is close enough that she commuted each day? I am not from NC so I don't really know how far these place are.
IMO
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 07:54 PM
I wasn't aware she was in Raleigh... Yes, that's plenty close. It's really hard to say without having been there what the situation was. I know several people who worked with or hung around him, and I've heard several different characterizations of him. The consistent themes, however, are that he was basically a good guy, but not above engaging in some of the "boys will boys" behaviors that are pretty common around here.
Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for Marines and what they do, but Jacksonville is a tough town on marriages. I've seen people that I know to be intelligent, decent spouses do some really stupid things when they get around their buddies. Ive also some witnessed some equally intelligent single women get caught up with married men, and go a little nuts. I've lived a lot of places, but Jacksonville is truly in a class of it's own.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 08:26 PM
I swear, I'm not trying to pick on you Ocean, but this is an interesting comment. I agree that murder seems to be out of character for Cesar, and I really don't think he's a cold blooded person who's first thought was " if I kill her, all this goes away". I do however, think he was an outstanding Marine who had the potential for extremely successful career. I think he loved being a Marine, and was probably aware that his chances of having similar success in the civilian sector were pretty slim. I also believe he made a stupid mistake and got involved with a young girl who lacked some emotional maturity and self esteem and things got out of control.
He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternization, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.
I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.
I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.
I love different theories. You will find I am very laid back and easygoing. I don't consider it "picking on me" because you have an opinion and voice it when you reply to my posts.
My theory is Maria did have consensual sex with him, both times imo. I don't only think that Maria was immature, I think she had some mental issues. Even her mother said so. Maybe Cesar stopped to think how this could affect his career if he continued, and I do agree being a stellar Marine was very important to him, so he may have broken it off with her, and she just immaturely reacted, and wanted to hurt him in the way she knew would hurt the most......his career and marriage.
Imo they did not see each other again until around September because if he had been seeing her all along he wouldn't have asked his Marine buddy to contact her to set up a happenstance meeting.
In May, maybe to get back at Cesar, Maria went with someone else and got pregnant by that mystery dad.
But I cannot say with any certainty that Cesar did not love her. He said he did, even though he knew it would get back to Christina, since the US press was there in Mexico when he was arrested.
Forbidden love sometimes is more alluring than love that is not. So I do think he thought it was best for him and Maria that she leave the Corps and his grandmother who lives in Mexico would take care of Maria and his child (he thought at the time) until he came to be with them and he would send money to support them until then.
He would have been able to leave the Corps In March of the following year, iirc, when his contract would have been up.
Sheriff Brown did say early on that he had learned Maria may be getting dishonorably discharged from the Corps and it would have happen too if the child did not turnout to be Laureans. Rightly or wrongly, Maria's credibility was already an issue with the Marine Corps way before the rape allegations. So I think even Maria knew things weren't going to go well for her in the MC and she knew she couldn't be there for them to take DNA testing on her child, even though she had recently tried to retract that he was the father. The Corps was still going to take the DNA of Gabriel. If they determined that Maria was lying the entire time about all of these accusations she would have been in deep do.
I don't know what happened when she came there twice to his home. Evidently the first time everything must have gone rather well. Maybe she got cold feet and returned demanding that he leave with her then. Maybe if he told her he couldn't do that, but would come later, and it made her so angry that she blurted out to him. "YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER OF MY BABY!" and she may have even told him who the real father was. I think very mean spirited words were exchanged by both of them and it got more and more heated until there was an emotional explosion culminating from the months of pressure they both had been under.
I remember early on someone said "no one bullied Maria" so I think it was a very heated exchange of hurtful words from both sides.
I see this case as a crime of passion. Months and months of undeniable pressure on two people in a firestorm of emotions and events. When they came together for the last time things were raw with emotional rage and there is a very thin line between love and hate.
IMO of course.
panthera
08-13-2010, 08:39 PM
He convinced me that all of this is totally out of character for Cesar Laurean.
Another reason why I dont feel he premeditated this.
IMO
I really would have liked to have seen his testimony. I am also in agreement with you regarding premeditation. MOO
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 08:45 PM
I wasn't aware she was in Raleigh... Yes, that's plenty close. It's really hard to say without having been there what the situation was. I know several people who worked with or hung around him, and I've heard several different characterizations of him. The consistent themes, however, are that he was basically a good guy, but not above engaging in some of the "boys will boys" behaviors that are pretty common around here.
Just to clarify, I have the utmost respect for Marines and what they do, but Jacksonville is a tough town on marriages. I've seen people that I know to be intelligent, decent spouses do some really stupid things when they get around their buddies. Ive also some witnessed some equally intelligent single women get caught up with married men, and go a little nuts. I've lived a lot of places, but Jacksonville is truly in a class of it's own.
That is why our son made himself a promise before he went into the Marine Corps to never marry a woman from a town he was based at and he kept that promise to himself and came back to Georgia and found the woman of his dreams. Who btw/is from NC but not a base town. LOL!
Yes, I am very aware that Jacksonville is a rough town on marriages. My son was over about 40 men when he was at New River AS, and a lot of them once they came back from deployment, found their wives and children gone, and they were living with another Marine or some other guy from Jacksonville.
He spent a lot of his off time just trying to help them find a place to live since they had no home to come back to when they came back from overseas. And it wasn't unusual for some of their wives to be pregnant by another man when they came back. It broke his heart at times and infuriated him at other times but it also was a very good life lesson for him and he was determine he would never be one of those statistics and he wasnt, and for that I am very thankful and love my daughter in law as much as if she is my own child.
IMO
panthera
08-13-2010, 09:19 PM
Laurean trial update: Tell-tale computer records
GOLDSBORO — As local and federal authorities narrowed in on Cesar Laurean as the main suspect in the disappearance of a pregnant colleague, his computer searched websites about homicide investigations, Jacksonville defense lawyers and employment opportunities in Mexico, according to testimony Friday.
Former Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean, 23, is on trial charged with first-degree murder in the death of 20-year-old Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach of Vandalia, Ohio, in December 2007. She was missing until her body was discovered in Laurean’s Half Moon community backyard in mid-January 2008.
A judge ruled earlier this year that the trial be held in Wayne County due to pretrial publicity in Onslow County.
The prosecution team of District Attorney Dewey Hudson, Chief ADA Ernie Lee, and Senior ADA Mike Maultsby continued Friday to lay out their case against Laurean with testimony from a computer expert, a Naval investigator, a bank official and two former Laurean neighbors.
The Defense Department computer issued to Laurean accessed the Internet on Jan. 8, 2008, to search Amazon.com for books about “what happens in a homicide investigation,” according to testimony Friday from Special Agent Randy Dulay, a computer forensic expert with Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Also Googled were Jacksonville defense lawyers, including the Welch Law Firm.
Jacksonville lawyer Chris Welch has represented Laurean’s wife, Christina Laurean, since Lauterbach’s body was discovered in the Laureans’ backyard Jan. 11, 2008.
more at http://www.enctoday.com/news/records-89803-nbsj-bodycopyrag-tale.html
GeekyGirl
08-13-2010, 10:11 PM
Ocean, happy to her that you don't take offense. I'm always interested in hearing what other have to say, and while I might not always agree, I do respect your thoughts and can understand why you have the opinions you do. (And kudos to you on your advice to your son!! So glad he listened.)
I hear a lot of people talking about how Maria was a pathological liar, bipolar etc. but again I haven't seen anything other than antecdotal evidence of this. I think she was a young, immature girl who tried to manipulate situations to get her way. Sadly, this isn't unusual. Most female Marines fall into one of two (very general) categories, those who use their gender as a crutch or an excuse, and those who choose not to make it an issue. The females in the former category do not last long. The lies Maria was purported to have told appear to all have been a means to an end, attention, sympathy, money etc. That makes her dishonest, not mentally ill. Pathological liars tell lies even when the truth is plainly obvious, and even when the lies serve no purpose or have no benefit to them.
I wholeheartedly agree that she used the rape allegations to try and manipulate the situation, perhaps to punish him, perhaps to try and get his attention, maybe both. I also think Cesar cared about her, and didn't want to hurt her. I do not believe he ever intended on ruining his career, leaving the Corps, or his wife to be with her. Every thing points to a guy who loved being a Marine. I'm sure you understand that for most Marines, it's not just a job, it's an identity. Being a Marine is first and foremost who they are. As I said, I think he just wanted the threat to his identity to go away.
I also see what you're saying regarding months of frustration and lies building up and leading to an ugly scene, and a "crime of passion". Sadly, there is no legal definition for a crime passion. It's a defense that basically claims that he didn't know that picking up a crowbar and striking her in the head with it could lead to her death. Yes, in the heat of the moment we can all do things without thinking, but where was the crowbar? Was it in his hand when they started fighting? Or did he have to look around and pick it up? There's been nothing to suggest that he had any reason to defend himself from Maria, or that, other than wielding it as a weapon, he had any reason to be holding a crowbar. So if he picked it up, it's reasonable to assume he intended to use it as a weapon. When he swung it, he aimed at her head. Again, a reasonable person could assume that, given his training as a Marine, he knew that such a blow could kill her. So, if he made the decision to pick up an object, wield it as a weapon and deliver a blow that he knew had a reasonable chance of causing her death, then by the legal definition, the murder was premeditated. It's a sad, sad situation, as it seems that if just one or two things had been done differently it could have been prevented. But no matter how poor Maria's choices were, she (nor her baby) deserved to die. IMHO he made a choice, under stress yes, but still made a choice that ended her life.
Again, just my opinion here, and I'm certainly the first to admit that I'm wrong more than I'm right. :) I don't envy those jurors, that's for sure.
oceanblueeyes
08-13-2010, 11:13 PM
Ocean, happy to her that you don't take offense. I'm always interested in hearing what other have to say, and while I might not always agree, I do respect your thoughts and can understand why you have the opinions you do. (And kudos to you on your advice to your son!! So glad he listened.)
I hear a lot of people talking about how Maria was a pathological liar, bipolar etc. but again I haven't seen anything other than antecdotal evidence of this. I think she was a young, immature girl who tried to manipulate situations to get her way. Sadly, this isn't unusual. Most female Marines fall into one of two (very general) categories, those who use their gender as a crutch or an excuse, and those who choose not to make it an issue. The females in the former category do not last long. The lies Maria was purported to have told appear to all have been a means to an end, attention, sympathy, money etc. That makes her dishonest, not mentally ill. Pathological liars tell lies even when the truth is plainly obvious, and even when the lies serve no purpose or have no benefit to them.
I wholeheartedly agree that she used the rape allegations to try and manipulate the situation, perhaps to punish him, perhaps to try and get his attention, maybe both. I also think Cesar cared about her, and didn't want to hurt her. I do not believe he ever intended on ruining his career, leaving the Corps, or his wife to be with her. Every thing points to a guy who loved being a Marine. I'm sure you understand that for most Marines, it's not just a job, it's an identity. Being a Marine is first and foremost who they are. As I said, I think he just wanted the threat to his identity to go away.
I also see what you're saying regarding months of frustration and lies building up and leading to an ugly scene, and a "crime of passion". Sadly, there is no legal definition for a crime passion. It's a defense that basically claims that he didn't know that picking up a crowbar and striking her in the head with it could lead to her death. Yes, in the heat of the moment we can all do things without thinking, but where was the crowbar? Was it in his hand when they started fighting? Or did he have to look around and pick it up? There's been nothing to suggest that he had any reason to defend himself from Maria, or that, other than wielding it as a weapon, he had any reason to be holding a crowbar. So if he picked it up, it's reasonable to assume he intended to use it as a weapon. When he swung it, he aimed at her head. Again, a reasonable person could assume that, given his training as a Marine, he knew that such a blow could kill her. So, if he made the decision to pick up an object, wield it as a weapon and deliver a blow that he knew had a reasonable chance of causing her death, then by the legal definition, the murder was premeditated. It's a sad, sad situation, as it seems that if just one or two things had been done differently it could have been prevented. But no matter how poor Maria's choices were, she (nor her baby) deserved to die. IMHO he made a choice, under stress yes, but still made a choice that ended her life.
Again, just my opinion here, and I'm certainly the first to admit that I'm wrong more than I'm right. :) I don't envy those jurors, that's for sure.
I believe it is going to come into the trial when Mary Lauterbach testifies. She is the one that said her daughter is a pathological liar (she wrote a three page email detailing Maria and sent it to the police) and she also said she is bi-polar. I believe I remember Maria's uncle saying the same and he is a psychiatrist.
BBM
I respectfully disagree a "crime of passion" is a very viable and legal defense.
It is used often when there is sudden violence among those who were known to each other and in relationships.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/569913/what_is_a_crime_of_passion_is_it_a.html?cat=17
We hear about crimes of passion all the time. A crime of passion is usually a murder or an assault that is precipitated by jealousy, or an act that wasn't planned (premeditated), but occurred for no other reason than pure emotional violence. In the past, many murderers have escaped murder charges or even prison because of this legal defense.
The purpose for a crime of passion defense is to rule out one very important element of murder: premeditation.
*************************
That is why McNeil included this in his opening statements.
Now do I believe they are going to give Cesar a lesser degree? NO. But IMO, this is not a premeditated crime but one where passions erupted like hot volcanic lava.
Cesar Laurean has no history whatsoever of ever acting violently. This was an aberration.
I believe the crowbar was sitting in the garage very close to where they were arguing. I dont think he went and got the crowbar and came back. He was enraged so he picked it up and swung it once.
IMO
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 12:46 AM
Thank you for keeping me in check :) I mispoke in saying there is no legal definition for a crime of passion. It can be a viable legal defense, as the article pointed out, but it is not something, that, to my knowledge is defined by North Carolina statute. It's a tricky thing because you are talking about a state of mind. If it did indeed happen as you proposed and he had never previously threatened violence, then yes, I can see where a lesser charge would apply. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I think there's more to the story, and that hopefully it will be brought forward in court. I realize that unsubstantiated claims are not fact, but there are enough people involved whom I highly respect that are adament that the state has enough evidence to prove that it was in fact, first degree murder, so I will agree to disagree.
As to her mental health, I've heard so many conflicting opinions that I'm just going to reserve judgement until/if there is verifiable evidence from an unbiased party. Again, no disrespect, as I fully understand your position.
I think it is clear that we both agree that this is a tragic story, with a horrendous outcome, and regardless of the outcome of the trial, the fact remains that so many lives were shattered, and two were ended. When all is said and done, the only thing good that can come out of this is that by reflecting on the events that occurred, we may be better able to identify and handle similar situations, and intervene before they get this far.
OneLove
08-14-2010, 12:53 AM
He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternazation, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.
I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.
I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.
Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.
oceanblueeyes
08-14-2010, 08:21 AM
Thank you for keeping me in check :) I mispoke in saying there is no legal definition for a crime of passion. It can be a viable legal defense, as the article pointed out, but it is not something, that, to my knowledge is defined by North Carolina statute. It's a tricky thing because you are talking about a state of mind. If it did indeed happen as you proposed and he had never previously threatened violence, then yes, I can see where a lesser charge would apply. Again, I could be completely wrong, but I think there's more to the story, and that hopefully it will be brought forward in court. I realize that unsubstantiated claims are not fact, but there are enough people involved whom I highly respect that are adament that the state has enough evidence to prove that it was in fact, first degree murder, so I will agree to disagree.
As to her mental health, I've heard so many conflicting opinions that I'm just going to reserve judgement until/if there is verifiable evidence from an unbiased party. Again, no disrespect, as I fully understand your position.
I think it is clear that we both agree that this is a tragic story, with a horrendous outcome, and regardless of the outcome of the trial, the fact remains that so many lives were shattered, and two were ended. When all is said and done, the only thing good that can come out of this is that by reflecting on the events that occurred, we may be better able to identify and handle similar situations, and intervene before they get this far.
Good morning.
Lots to do before we leave on our Anniversary vacation tomorrow!:crazy:
My opinion about her mental instability is based on what her own mother and psychiatrist's Uncle has said about Maria. Also some of the very odd things she did in Corps.
I will be back later on.
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 09:30 AM
Good morning.
Lots to do before we leave on our Anniversary vacation tomorrow!:crazy:
My opinion about her mental instability is based on what her own mother and psychiatrist's Uncle has said about Maria. Also some of the very odd things she did in Corps.
I will be back later on.
I do understand that, but her mother and uncle (even if he is a psychiatrist) aren't unbiased. Families are funny things. As I said, not saying there's not the possibility, just reserving judgement.
Yay for your anniversary vacation! A vacation of any kind sounds positively wonderful, sadly I have to wait until November. *pouts*
Thanks again for the intelligent discussion. :)
STEADFAST
08-14-2010, 10:12 AM
Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.
I would like to know why he was at home instead of at the Christmas party.
It's hard to believe Maria would just happen to show up at his home when he wouldn't be expected to be there. I do think he set this up. And I do think he thought that people would be convinced she ran off and disappeared.
He may not have shown violent tendencies before he killed a pregnant woman with a crowbar, tried to steal all her money after she was dead and burned her and her baby's bodies up in a fire (to which he invited friends), but he demonstrated them throughout the crime and its aftermath.
oceanblueeyes
08-14-2010, 10:50 AM
I do understand that, but her mother and uncle (even if he is a psychiatrist) aren't unbiased. Families are funny things. As I said, not saying there's not the possibility, just reserving judgement.
Yay for your anniversary vacation! A vacation of any kind sounds positively wonderful, sadly I have to wait until November. *pouts*
Thanks again for the intelligent discussion. :)
Back for a short break. lol
Yes, they are biased and most families usually deny there are mental disorders present but it seems Mary and Frank did not and dealt with it head on.
Had this information come from someone else I would not give it as much weight. But these two people had known Maria all of her life and was there through her life struggles until she joined the Corps at 17.
IMO
oceanblueeyes
08-14-2010, 11:08 AM
I would like to know why he was at home instead of at the Christmas party.
It's hard to believe Maria would just happen to show up at his home when he wouldn't be expected to be there. I do think he set this up. And I do think he thought that people would be convinced she ran off and disappeared.
He may not have shown violent tendencies before he killed a pregnant woman with a crowbar, tried to steal all her money after she was dead and burned her and her baby's bodies up in a fire (to which he invited friends), but he demonstrated them throughout the crime and its aftermath.
Maybe we will see the phone records of which one called first.
Didn't the Officer say there was no set time to be there? It is said she came there twice so maybe she came early the first time knowing he wouldn't have left for the party yet. Imo, she knew he would go home first and change out of his cammies.
To this day my main question is if Laurean had really raped her why would she go there no matter what he tried to setup?
So, imo there is a lot that we don't know about the real relationship between them. Imo, it was much more than met the eye.
I see no evidence at this time that he set any of this up. Especially no evidence thus far that he had preplanned intentions of killing her. Maria was known to do what Maria wanted to do. I think Maria went willingly and on her own accord and I don't think he knew she was going to return to his home for the second time.
While the aftermath is emotional, I try to stick strictly to what he is charged with, and he isn't charged with purposefully desecrating the body. IMO, if he was going to do that he would have doused her with accelerant and burned her above ground before burying the remains. The reason she was charred was the heat filtered down into the cracks and crevices of the disturbed earth over her body that cant be packed down like it was in its original state. And if that was his full intention he would have had more than one bonfire than the one which happened in late December, almost two weeks after she was killed.
He was a coward and desperately trying to camouflage where the shallow grave was.
imo
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 12:22 PM
While the aftermath is emotional, I try to stick strictly to what he is charged with, and he isn't charged with purposefully desecrating the body.
Very good point Ocean. I think people have a hard time separating the two. His actions, however horrific, following the (alleged) murder have no bearing on the charge at hand. It's such an emotional case, but in order for justice to prevail, each juror must try to focus on the facts and the applicable laws. As I've said, glad it's not me.
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Back for a short break. lol
Yes, they are biased and most families usually deny there are mental disorders present but it seems Mary and Frank did not and dealt with it head on.
Had this information come from someone else I would not give it as much weight. But these two people had known Maria all of her life and was there through her life struggles until she joined the Corps at 17.
IMO
Perhaps I'm jaded, but to me, biased is biased. You're absolutely correct in that there are families that deny mental disorders, however in my line of work (health care) I've also seen families who latch on to the idea of a "mental disorder" as a way to explain away behavioral issues that have gotten out of control, instead of admitting that there may be problems in their home that need to be dealt with. To clarify, Mary Lauterbach said she "suspected" her daughter was bipolar and the Uncle clarified his statements to say that while Maria had a history of lying when under stress, he did not consider her to be a compulsive liar.
Do I believe that Maria was a troubled young woman? Absolutely, but there are lots of troubled people who are not, by definition, mentally ill. Unfortunately, I see the same type of manipulative behavior, to include the lying, every day. IMHO she made a series of extremely poor choices, but I do believe there was evidence that she was trying to rectify her mistakes and gain control of her life again. One of the many tragedies in this story is that it appears neither Maria, nor anyone around her (to include her command) made a serious attempt to get her any help from the mental health community. Again, while I don't believe she was suffering from a clinical mental illness, I do think she would have benefited greatly from counseling.
panthera
08-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.
I cannot see Laurean planning the murder and having it inside his house and thinking he could totally dispose of her body in his backyard. If he planned to kill her he could've chosen another location where he wouldn't be tied to her death. MOO
oceanblueeyes
08-14-2010, 07:05 PM
Perhaps I'm jaded, but to me, biased is biased. You're absolutely correct in that there are families that deny mental disorders, however in my line of work (health care) I've also seen families who latch on to the idea of a "mental disorder" as a way to explain away behavioral issues that have gotten out of control, instead of admitting that there may be problems in their home that need to be dealt with. To clarify, Mary Lauterbach said she "suspected" her daughter was bipolar and the Uncle clarified his statements to say that while Maria had a history of lying when under stress, he did not consider her to be a compulsive liar.
Do I believe that Maria was a troubled young woman? Absolutely, but there are lots of troubled people who are not, by definition, mentally ill. Unfortunately, I see the same type of manipulative behavior, to include the lying, every day. IMHO she made a series of extremely poor choices, but I do believe there was evidence that she was trying to rectify her mistakes and gain control of her life again. One of the many tragedies in this story is that it appears neither Maria, nor anyone around her (to include her command) made a serious attempt to get her any help from the mental health community. Again, while I don't believe she was suffering from a clinical mental illness, I do think she would have benefited greatly from counseling.
I can only go by what I have read thus far. I believe the Corps did provide counseling when she stoled the Christmas money at Boot Camp. They also provided her with a victim's advocate when she made the allegations of rape and she was available day and night for Maria. They also offer counseling for alleged rape victims. So I am of the opinion that the Corps did not let Maria down. They tried to help her and she would tell them one thing and then tell Mary the opposite.
I do not know why she lied but she did. Anyone that can make up a tall tale that their father killed their own little brother or saying that they had cancer and had to have hysterectomy, goes way beyond typical falsehoods, imo. And to do this in an environment known for truth and veracity is even more abnormal and bizarre , imo.
I think her issues went much deeper than merely being immature and making poor choices.
IMOO
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 08:44 PM
I can only go by what I have read thus far. I believe the Corps did provide counseling when she stoled the Christmas money at Boot Camp. They also provided her with a victim's advocate when she made the allegations of rape and she was available day and night for Maria. They also offer counseling for alleged rape victims. So I am of the opinion that the Corps did not let Maria down. They tried to help her and she would tell them one thing and then tell Mary the opposite.
I do not know why she lied but she did. Anyone that can make up a tall tale that their father killed their own little brother or saying that they had cancer and had to have hysterectomy, goes way beyond typical falsehoods, imo. And to do this in an environment known for truth and veracity is even more abnormal and bizarre , imo.
I think her issues went much deeper than merely being immature and making poor choices.
IMOO
Let me first say, that while I have the utmost respect for the Marine Corps, and that there is no doubt that they highly value honesty and integrity, the "environment" they live in is subject to the same flaw as all others, it contains human beings. I could rattle off at least a hundred stories I've been told by Marines that are more outrageous that what Maria claimed. Certainly this type of behavior is the exception rather than rule, but when you take young people, move them far away from their home and put them in a high stress environment, there will always be some that have a much harder time adjusting, and will go to great lengths for attention.
I'm sorry if I implied that Marine Corps was negligent, that wasn't my intention. You are correct in that she did have opportunities to obtain help, and apparently did not use them. In reference to her having a Victim Advocate, that area gets a little hazy. I know that she was assigned a uniform victim advocate (UVA) but it's possible she did not have a VA from the Onslow Women's Center. I can't really go into details, but because she did not actually have a SANE kit done, there is a distict possibility that the way the policy was written at the time that the VA was not called. UVA's and VA are not the same thing, and have different levels of training.
Respectfully, I never said that she wasn't troubled, and I agree that her alleged lies were not "normal". From what I know, she appears to have extremely insecure and have a deep seated need for attention. My point was that doesn't mean she was mentally ill by clinical standards.
There is a huge stigma attached to mental illness, and my fear is that the defense will use this to create a scenario in which Cesar Laurean's actions can be mitigated in the jury's mind by claiming that he's a wonderful guy who was pushed beyond his limits by a crazy woman. I'm not saying she was perfect, or that he raped her, but I do think that, in the beginning of their relationship, he may have taken advantage of her vulnerabilities and continued to do so in order to achieve his goal, which was apparently to get her to go Mexico.
On a somewhat unrelated note, I stumbled across this today:
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/208/01/randi-kaye-360-correspondent-i-spent.html (http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/anderson.cooper.360/blog/2008/01/randi-kaye-360-correspondent-i-spent.html)
I thought the part about him not wearing a ring, as well as Maria finding out about his marriage shortly before the rape allegations to be interesting. Certainly not definitive, but interesting none the less.
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 10:25 PM
Also, I forgot to add that from what I understand, Maria was counseled after the money incident in her MOS school. A counseling statement is a minor disciplinary action meaning that she was spoken to about the incident, and/or documents any corrective action that is to occur. Very different from mental health counseling. She may have received that as well, but I haven't been able to find any references to such.
oceanblueeyes
08-14-2010, 10:56 PM
I guess on this one we will just have to agree to disagree.
I think she was a very disturbed young woman. It wouldn't surprise me if she had shown these traits throughout most of her life.
I just don't believe anyone took advantage of Maria. Her friends said she was the type that couldn't be bullied. I think that was one of the reasons she had the tenacity to lie to the Corps too without blinking an eye. It didn't seem to faze her even though she had to realize she was in a very structured environments where rules are everything. Imo Maria wasn't intimidated by anyone nor feared anyone.
I don't know what type of counseling she received when she stole the money. I read it was for 6 months.
Topsail and Panthera, I am depending on you to keep me updated on the case.
I will be back at the end of the week and try to catch up although Dewey said his CIC will probably be over by Tuesday.
I know how this one is going to turnout but I do think so far it has been a very interesting trial.
I will miss all of you!:blowkiss:
IMO
STEADFAST
08-14-2010, 11:13 PM
IMO, any issues that Maria may or may not have had are irrelevant.
Cesar is a liar, a cheat, a coward, a thief and, IMO, a murderer. He betrayed everybody, including the Marine Corps. The fact that the WO in charge of him thought at one time that he was a good Marine carries no weight with me. He started this mess by cheating on his wife, tried to solve it by hiding Maria away, and when that didn't work, he killed her. There's nothing that Maria's been accused of doing that even comes close.
This is just the old attacking the victim defense.
GeekyGirl
08-14-2010, 11:47 PM
Certainly, Ocean. :) I realize that I'm completely biased in my opinions... I see so much craziness that if I didn't lean towards giving these kids the benefit of the doubt, I'd go a little nuts myself.
Enjoy your anniversary vacation!
Completely off topic... I was chatting with a LE buddy of mine tonight about the trial, and when I brought up the issue of the first degree charge and premeditation, he said he thinks Hudson's strategy is to argue the felony murder rule... Not sure the exact implications in this case, but I had completely forgotten he was charged with robbery w/ a deadly weapon.
LaLaw2000
08-15-2010, 03:08 AM
Have an absolutely GREAT vacation, oceanblueyes!
LaLaw2000
08-15-2010, 04:18 AM
I swear, I'm not trying to pick on you Ocean, but this is an interesting comment. I agree that murder seems to be out of character for Cesar, and I really don't think he's a cold blooded person who's first thought was " if I kill her, all this goes away". I do however, think he was an outstanding Marine who had the potential for extremely successful career. I think he loved being a Marine, and was probably aware that his chances of having similar success in the civilian sector were pretty slim. I also believe he made a stupid mistake and got involved with a young girl who lacked some emotional maturity and self esteem and things got out of control.
He was going to have a hard time refuting the rape allegation without admitting to adultery and fraternazation, both of which could potentially affect his career. The pregnancy added an additional complication, as I do believe that he at least thought there was a possibility the kid was his. The Marine testified yesterday that in Cesar's mind, the solution to the problem was basically for Maria to go away. I seriously doubt he wanted to hurt her, but he wanted her gone (to Mexico) so that he would not have to answer for his actions to the Corps.
I think it's possible that he tried to convince Maria to run away by saying he would join her, and for awhile it looked like she was going to go along with it. She bought the bus ticket, and he started to believe it might really all just go away. At some point on the 14th she returned to his house, and if she told him that she changed her mind about leaving, the threat to his career, his life is back. As previously demonstrated, he just wants to make it all go away.
I don't think he plotted for months, weeks or days to kill her, but when she showed back up and he knew his plan wasn't going to work, I think he got desperate. He may have seen her murder as his only way of salvaging his life, but if he picked up that crowbar and swung it with the intent to "make her go away" it's premeditated. One single blow to her head is, to me, more indicative of a calculated attack, than the actions of a "crime of passion" snapping.
I absolutely 100 percent agree with your post, GeekyGirl.
And premeditation can take only seconds or minutes. I believe it was an act of desperation rather than a crime of passion. I have been following crimes for years and years and cannot remember a successful criime of passion defense where that person did not come upon the other cheating or in the company of another. Hard to explain, but hope you know what I mean.
I will buy an act of desperation but not a crime of passion.
JMO
GeekyGirl
08-15-2010, 01:04 PM
In a previous post I mentioned that a friend suggested that the DA's strategy in this case may be to try and prove that CL is guilty of first degree murder under the felony murder rule, rather than trying to prove premeditation. The felony murder rule basically says that if the murder is committed in conjunction with another serious felony, it is considered first degree murder, despite a lack of premeditation. So what felony applies in this case? The charge of Robbery with a dangerous weapon.
Initially I thought this was a little far fetched, as I don't think anyone believes that Robbery was the motive behind the head blow, but after doing a little research, it turns out that the DA's office may have a pretty good case. If he's guilty of the murder, CL sure picked the wrong state to do it in. Unlike most states, the NC Supreme Court has consistently upheld the following things (if you're interested in the relevant case law just ask):
1. It doesn't matter if the taking of another person's possession occurs before, during or after a show of force.
2. It doesn't matter if the robbery occurs after the person is dead, a body is still considered a "person" in the eyes of the law.
3. It doesn't matter whether the intent to deprive a person of their property occurs before or after a show of force with a deadly weapon.
4. Juries can be instructed that they may decide whether a first degree murder has been committed based on either premeditation or the felony murder rule.
So basically if Hudson can convince the jury that CL did in fact murder Maria, but he doesn't prove premeditation, if he can prove that CL deprived her of her property (her wallet, car, money, etc) at the same time of the murder (took her keys, wallet etc off the body), even if it was an afterthought, then the felony murder would apply, and CL should be considered guilty of first degree murder according to the law.
All I can say is wow, NC is one freaking harsh state.
panthera
08-15-2010, 08:43 PM
(respectfully snipped)
Topsail and Panthera, I am depending on you to keep me updated on the case.
I will be back at the end of the week and try to catch up although Dewey said his CIC will probably be over by Tuesday.
I know how this one is going to turnout but I do think so far it has been a very interesting trial.
I will miss all of you!:blowkiss:
IMO
Have a wonderful vacation and we'll keep you updated!! :blowkiss:
Topsail Girl
08-15-2010, 10:51 PM
Hi all!! I've not long gotten home from the beach and I can't tell you how many times I thought of this trial over the weekend. On Saturday, my daughter was at the PX ALONE and it really really upset me to find that out. Her boyfriend is in Cali for training and she decided to go to the PX for some shopping. She knows about Maria and she knows about my feelings for the base. I really do understand that every Marine stationed there is not out to hurt or kill a young woman, but this case is just to close to my heart to not have the lump in my throat when ever my daughter is aboard the base.
Ocean, enjoy your vacation. I'll do my best to keep the notes up to date. Monday's are hectic for me at work so I may not post from my notes till late afternoon but I promise I will be listening.
Everyone has had such a great discussion with out any bickering or finger pointing and I just have to say THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for keeping this thread on topic and a joy to come and read!!!!
Goodnight and I'll check in tomorrow as soon as I can post :-)
GeekyGirl
08-16-2010, 05:07 AM
Shhh... Don't let anyone hear you call it a PX :) In all seriousness Topsail Girl, 99% of the male Marines on this base are wonderful people, and I honestly couldn't think of a safer place to be as a single female. I know it's hard, as a Mom, not to worry... My Mom did too when I told her I had taken a job on the base and was moving to Jacksonville. I was 25 at the time, and I've been here for 5 years now, and lived alone the whole time. Never once have I felt unsafe on the base, and certainly never in the exchange in the middle of the day. Heck, half the time I leave my car unlocked. It's funny, last time I was home I almost had a door smack me in the face because I'm so used to having them held open for me. In my experience, most of the bad situations are domestic in nature, or involve people engaging in high risk behavior.
Thank you again for all your hard work. I'll be anxiously awaiting any news, since this seems to be my only source of it at work. I too, am enjoying the intelligent, rationale discussion on this forum and I thank you all for being so friendly and welcoming.
dgfred
08-16-2010, 11:11 AM
Is it possible that he lead her on until he knew she had bought that bus ticket, then intentionally persuaded her to come back, or even set that up in advance, like maybe "come back after you have the ticket and I'll have some cash for you to take", then offed her in the garage with Maria never seeing it coming. Maybe he was banking on her body NEVER being found and everyone just thinking she went to Mexico and dropped off the radar. This could answer the mystery of why she would go back that second time and the second visit did NOT match up with the first.
Interesting theory. I believe that the 2nd trip was totally unexpected... that is why it ended the way it did. Too tuff to kill her in his house and dispose of the body in the back yard without being caught. I think maybe she changed her mind about going to Mexico, and came back and told him so. Maybe even adding that the baby wasn't his.
lonetraveler
08-16-2010, 11:56 AM
Just want to thank y'all for keeping me up to date. I had planned to be here with you throughout the trial but a bit of unplanned surgery changed that. I really regret not buying a laptop when I purchased my computer.......anyway, can't sit for very long at my computer desk but I try to check in as much as I can. Y'all are doing a great job giving the play by play testimony.
I have always been suspicious about the wife's involvement in the cleanup activities. I just do not see how she could not know that something bad had happened in her very own house. I think that the second trip to his house was because Maria changed her mind about skipping out of town and realized that he was getting rid of her. She returned to his house to confront him and they had a very heated exchange of words. To hurt him, she told him that he was not the baby's father. With everything she had put him through, he most likely "lost" it and beat her to death. Wife comes home, realizes that something is very wrong and Cesar breaks down and confesses as to what has happened. I'm waiting to see if my opinion will change.
Topsail Girl
08-16-2010, 12:54 PM
Laurean defense: Divining rod technique muddled crime scene
GOLDSBORO — Cesar Laurean's defense counsel has used Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown's use of a divining rod in looking for the body of a missing pregnant Marine to cast doubt on the processing of the crime scene where her body was discovered.
http://www.jdnews.com/news/muddled-81608-crime-rod.html
passionflower
08-16-2010, 12:58 PM
No matter what a person does, no one deserves to be murdered.
I never blame the victim.
No one has the right to murder, rape, abuse ...........
GeekyGirl
08-16-2010, 01:05 PM
It occurred to me today as I was driving on base, are we at all sure that Maria made two trips to the Laurean's home on the 14th? The only documented references to the two trips I can find are from Cesar's statement to his wife... which is highly suspect anyway. If they got off work at noon, especially on a payday Friday, right before Christmas, it would have taken Cesar at least an hour to get home (the ATM he stopped at is on the way) Maria lived in the other direction, and unless she followed CL home, it's highly unlikely that she drove home, drove to his house, and drove home again, to the ATM, the bus station and finally his house again. Based on the location of her ATM withdrawal at 4 something, it's safe to assume she was coming from home. From the ATM, there isn't enough time for her to have driven to CL's house and then to the bus station. Trust me, if you've ever sat on 24 or Western Blvd in payday, holiday traffic you'd understand why this seems far-fetched. (and yes I realize there are other ways to get from point A to point B, but still, sitting in traffic would have been horrendous, especially if you were that far along) I know Capt Sutherland aknowledged that there was cell phone contact between the two after they got off work, but I haven't seen a credible source verify that there were two visits to his house. Still possible of course, but I think we kind of have to throw out everything CL and CSL claim happened if we to know the truth.
teedie2
08-16-2010, 01:07 PM
I can't help comparing this trial with the trials for the killers of Channon and Chris.
It is so hard to hear some things that are being said, and this makes it hard to follow. Well, for me, I wonder if others are having a problem. I'm hard of hearing, which doesn't help, but have tried listening with earphones, and that wasn't much better.
After waiting so long for this trial to begin, it seemed like they would never get to it, and the audio and a lot of the visual are very disappointing.
When showing the photo exhibits, I believe exhibit 91 was done, and then there was a very long wait, and it looked like everyone was just sitting there. There was a lot of sound noise, but I couldn't make out anyone speaking. Then, all of a sudden, they started talking about another exhibit.
A poster said that there are long waits because witnesses are sequestered, but this is the same witness with the exhibits, and I can't figure out what the reason would be for a long pause. (Unless, of course, someone else is speaking and I just can't hear them.)
OK, the main thing is justice, and my complaints are nothing in view of that. Just wish I could follow it better.
LaLaw2000
08-16-2010, 01:36 PM
teedie2, my sound is good and the waits at times are because the jury is looking at evidence pics.
I am very surprised at the amount of blood drops that were still visible even after a cleanup of the scene. I shudder to think what poor Maria went through.
LaLaw2000
08-16-2010, 01:47 PM
GeekyGirl, I am not sure about Maria leaving and having gone back to Laurean's home either. It is just me, but I really believe that once she got there that afternoon, she never left.
With it being a payday weekend as well as a Friday just days before Christmas, I am sure traffic was really bad.
I was also glad to see that white t-shirt that Cesar was wearing at the ATM in evidence. He actually thought no one would know it was him at the ATM. Then to just toss it in a basket in their bedroom? Not a very smart guy, IMO. I am so glad Cesar has to sit there and listen to and see all of this.
JMO
teedie2
08-16-2010, 02:27 PM
teedie2, my sound is good and the waits at times are because the jury is looking at evidence pics.
I am very surprised at the amount of blood drops that were still visible even after a cleanup of the scene. I shudder to think what poor Maria went through.
Wow, all of a sudden I have sound! Clear. Cleaners just testified, now someone in uniform, and after a minute or two of garble, I can plainly hear him.
?? You have good sound, and mine has just come up where I can hear both questions, fairly well, and responses, very well!
Thanks for info, I had no idea what was going on. Now, perhaps it will be better, if they all just keep speaking up!
Blood flew all over, didn't it... was there some inside the house, too?
dgfred
08-16-2010, 02:38 PM
Just the garage I believe. Some on wall, ceiling and on other items in garage.
lonetraveler
08-16-2010, 02:54 PM
No matter what a person does, no one deserves to be murdered.
I never blame the victim.
No one has the right to murder, rape, abuse ...........
I don't think anyone here is blaming the victim. Since this was not a "stranger" murder, there has to be discussion on the interactions and relationship between the victim and the accused. I know that when I'm following cases, I try to understand the "frame of mind" of both the accused and the victim. It helps toward determining what could be motive for the murder. It also helps to determine "premeditation" vs. an unplanned action on behalf of the accused. Laying out the timeline, examining events that occurred prior to the murder (I might add that there are very major events that influenced this death in this case) as well as looking at actions following the murder are all important factors in this case. Unfortunately, when trying to understand Maria's decisions and actions prompt looking into her state of mind during such a stressful time. This is a complicated case: rape allegations, career ending charges, married man involved with a single woman, married man denying a relationship with the victim, Maria maybe knowing that the baby was not Cesar's, possible dishonorable discharges.......many, many things going on prior to the death of Maria. Then you have the attempted disposal of Maria and her unborn baby and the accused on the run to Mexico. You also have a wife who was struggling with the rape allegations against her husband then a wife with a child who is left behind while her husband is on the run, and now the trial (a lot of unknowns there). The victim, unfortunately, has to be exposed for all the world to see so that the jurors can better understand what happened that day.
MCDRAW
08-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Can anyone give me the link to watch the trial? Hopefully I will get to watch tomorrow. tia
Topsail Girl
08-16-2010, 08:30 PM
http://www.wral.com/ here it is MCDRAW
LaLaw2000
08-17-2010, 09:02 AM
UGH! I had a thunderstorm with wind come through yesterday afternoon and lost my DSL connection! Yard guys are here to get a huge limb out of my backyard.
I did read and look at all of the updates and am looking forward to what today brings.
Good Morning!
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 10:36 AM
Good Morning LaLaw - the morning brings a big ole nothing!! I have had no sound pretty much all morning. I emailed Amanda Lamb and asked her to contact Chad and let him know that we had no sound. Come to find out it is an issue in the court house and pretty much the morning session will not be aired. UUUGGHHHH!!!
LaLaw2000
08-17-2010, 10:40 AM
Good Morning LaLaw - the morning brings a big ole nothing!! I have had no sound pretty much all morning. I emailed Amanda Lamb and asked her to contact Chad and let him know that we had no sound. Come to find out it is an issue in the court house and pretty much the morning session will not be aired. UUUGGHHHH!!!
It does state that the engineers are working on it, tho.
I am so frustrated!!!! Thanks for the info, Topsail Girl!
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 10:49 AM
I am too because I'm afraid Mary is going to be on the stand today!!! I've had enough of the chain of evidence crap LOL. I did manage to get some notes taken yesterday but never go the chance to come here and post them. May I can get caught up while the "technical difficulties" are being worked out.
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Here is what I got back from Amanda and Matthew
Kim:
We have had a piece of equipment fail in Goldsboro , and our engineers are working to fix it as quickly as possible. The live video coverage will be out until then.
Matthew Burns
Senior Web Producer
WRAL.com (http://wral.com/)
Raleigh, NC
919.821.8986
From: Lamb, Amanda
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 10:44 AM
To: WRALTV - News - Update
Cc: Flowers, Chad
Subject: FW: Laurean Trial Live-NO SOUND
Amanda Lamb
WRAL News Reporter
(919)-618-4779 (mobile)
(919)-821-8600 (newsroom)
From: KimXXXXXXXX topsail_girl@xxx.com (KimXXXXXXXXopsail_girl@yahoo.com)]
Sent: Tue 8/17/2010 10:32 AM
To: Lamb, Amanda
Subject: Laurean Trial Live
Hey Amanda,
I'm not sure if you are working today but could you please try to reach Chad Flowers and let him know that we viewers of Laurean's trial have no sound?? PLEASE???? I've been watching since the first day and the sound has been awful but today we have none.
Thanks
Kim
panthera
08-17-2010, 11:10 AM
Good morning! :seeya: Still nothing from wral but hopefully they'll have the problem fixed by the afternoon session! :banghead: So far with the investigators' testimony it seems no fingerprints were recovered from Maria's ATM card or her car (at least not Cesar's prints, from what I understand). MOO
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 11:15 AM
I did find this - Substance on Crowbar was blood. There is a few more tidbits here.
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/17/dna-evidence-expected-be-focus-cesar-laurean-trial-ar-336925/
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 11:16 AM
Good Morning Panthera!! I've been searching other places but twitter is far behind and the above link is the most updated I have been able to find.
panthera
08-17-2010, 11:21 AM
Good Morning Panthera!! I've been searching other places but twitter is far behind and the above link is the most updated I have been able to find.
Thanks for the new link! I was looking for some updates. This is so frustrating!
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 11:24 AM
It sure is!! I just hope WRAL is able to get the repairs done before the afternoon session starts!!
panthera
08-17-2010, 11:30 AM
It sure is!! I just hope WRAL is able to get the repairs done before the afternoon session starts!!
What time do they go to lunch and how long?
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 11:53 AM
Yesterday it was about 12:45 when they went. Everyday so far the have been back at 2 but the time they left for lunch has varied.
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Defense continues to attack slain Marine's credibility
http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/8145757/
GOLDSBORO, N.C. — As prosecutors continued to build their case against a former Camp Lejeune Marine accused of killing a pregnant comrade three years ago, the defense continued to question the victim's emotional stability.
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 12:31 PM
So far in your opinion which witness do you all think has been the most credible? I found CWO2 Larsen to be very credible but as Ocean said, sad. Special Agent Steven Combs I think by far has had the hardest time on the stand because of the graphic nature of his testimony knowing that Mary was listening. I think I feel most sorry for Dennis Ward in that he received the crow bar and realized through news stations that he held the murder weapon in his hands. I can not imagine what it took for him to come to grips with that fact and get to the police as quickly as he did. All this as always is just my opinion. I'm curius what you all think.
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 12:40 PM
Christina Laurean's lawyer (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/position/tags/lawyer/) says she will exercise her right to spousal privilege and will not testify against her husband Cesar Laurean (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/person/tags/cesar-laurean/). Spousal privilege under North Carolina (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/provinceorstate/tags/north-carolina/) law says a husband or wife cannot be compelled to testify against their spouse.
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/17/12/dna-evidence-expected-be-focus-cesar-laurean-trial-ar-336925/
Just as we expected....
dgfred
08-17-2010, 12:45 PM
Christina Laurean's lawyer (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/position/tags/lawyer/) says she will exercise her right to spousal privilege and will not testify against her husband Cesar Laurean (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/person/tags/cesar-laurean/). Spousal privilege under North Carolina (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/provinceorstate/tags/north-carolina/) law says a husband or wife cannot be compelled to testify against their spouse.
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/17/12/dna-evidence-expected-be-focus-cesar-laurean-trial-ar-336925/
Just as we expected....
Yep, exactly TG.
Now comes the divorce after he is convicted... still leaves us not so sure what she did or did not know while the bodies were there.
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 12:51 PM
dgfred, if Master Sgt Pruneda had not been interrupted by the objection for defense I get a feeling we would have known a lot more than the defense ever wanted us to LOL. All she got out before the objection was "Christina told me that her husband had" - AAARGGHH had what????? LOL
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 12:53 PM
I also agree with the divorce. She is sitting in the cat bird seat right now. Spousal privilege benefits Cesar and I suppose there is a deal with the prosecution and her to keep her immune to any charges. I guess we can only hope and pray that once she divorces Cesar there will be SOME possibility of her being brought up on charges.
MCDRAW
08-17-2010, 01:12 PM
Christina Laurean's lawyer (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/position/tags/lawyer/) says she will exercise her right to spousal privilege and will not testify against her husband Cesar Laurean (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/person/tags/cesar-laurean/). Spousal privilege under North Carolina (http://www2.wnct.com/topics/types/provinceorstate/tags/north-carolina/) law says a husband or wife cannot be compelled to testify against their spouse.
http://www2.wnct.com/news/2010/aug/17/12/dna-evidence-expected-be-focus-cesar-laurean-trial-ar-336925/
Just as we expected....
I can not understand how she hasn't been charged. She had to have known something bad happened in that house. And she gave him a head start to Mexico. I figure she isn't testifying to keep from incriminating herself. JMO
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 01:17 PM
I don't understand it either McDraw but I can only assume she has some kind of immunity deal. Dewey Hudson may be a country boy but he is no dummy. He knows just as well as we do that Christina was involved in all or part of the murder and coverup.
panthera
08-17-2010, 01:27 PM
So far in your opinion which witness do you all think has been the most credible? I found CWO2 Larsen to be very credible but as Ocean said, sad. Special Agent Steven Combs I think by far has had the hardest time on the stand because of the graphic nature of his testimony knowing that Mary was listening. I think I feel most sorry for Dennis Ward in that he received the crow bar and realized through news stations that he held the murder weapon in his hands. I can not imagine what it took for him to come to grips with that fact and get to the police as quickly as he did. All this as always is just my opinion. I'm curius what you all think.
I'm at a great disadvantage not having seen all the testimony. I agree though. Larsen's testimony offered a lot of insight but at the same time was sad. I also felt sorry for Ward. MOO
panthera
08-17-2010, 01:30 PM
I can not understand how she hasn't been charged. She had to have known something bad happened in that house. And she gave him a head start to Mexico. I figure she isn't testifying to keep from incriminating herself. JMO
At this point, I completely agree why she doesn't want to take the stand. I also believe we know now why she's remained married to Laurean, just for this purpose. It was a small home, with virtually nothing in the backyard except the above-ground pool and the swing. How could she not know anything when suddenly the child's swing set is moved into the front yard along with tying the dog up there? Who in their right mind would want their small daughter playing in the front yard? :waitasec: MOO
panthera
08-17-2010, 01:35 PM
Yep, exactly TG.
Now comes the divorce after he is convicted... still leaves us not so sure what she did or did not know while the bodies were there.
There is also a civil lawsuit pending where she's named as a defendant. So it's a good guess whether or not she'll be divorcing him. MOO
Topsail Girl
08-17-2010, 01:43 PM
I'm at a great disadvantage not having seen all the testimony. I agree though. Larsen's testimony offered a lot of insight but at the same time was sad. I also felt sorry for Ward. MOO
Panthera and any other posters who might be interesed - if you follow this link you can see video exerpts from several of the witnesses.
http://www.wral.com/news/local/asset_gallery/8129837/
Parts of Steve Combs and Dennis Ward and several others are here.
LaLaw2000
08-17-2010, 02:15 PM
Thank you, Topsail Girl!
Also, I see someone on the witness stand but do not know who it is as we still have no audio!
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