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View Full Version : Still another of Misskelley's "expert" witnesses.


Dirty larry
09-06-2010, 01:13 PM
As you can see, Misskelley arrived at the station at 10am, and confessed at 2:20 pm.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmtl.html

Even ignoring the time he was taken to visit his father to get permission for the polygraph, that gives us an "interrogation" of just over 4 hours before the confession.

What did Misskelley's interrogation expert Warren Holmes have to say about this?

http://www.callahan.8k.com/wm3/warrenh.html

Q: Mr. Holmes, my name is Brent Davis. I met you, previously, at another hearing. If I ask you any
questions that you donít understand, please ask me to rephrase them and I will be glad to do so.

A: All right, sir.

Q: And itís my understanding that, primarily, what you do now is lecture to police agencies, law-enforcement agencies on interrogation tactics, is that correct?

A: True.

Q: Okay. And would it be fair to say that youíre basically training officers on how to conduct an interrogation?

A: True.

Q: Okay. And would it be accurate to say that when you train officers to conduct interrogations that you tell them that, at a minimum, in an important case, that you want them to go 4 hours, uninterrupted, with a suspect?

A: True.

Q: Okay. So, in this particular case, the time period that the officers were with the suspect doesnít pose a problem for you, does it?

A: No.

Q: That would be what you recommend them to do if you were advising them, correct?

A: I would have done exactly what they did.

This begs the question - if so many supporters demand they have studied the trial transcripts, then why does their "information" directly contridict the testimony so often?

I believe the answer is simple.

Brwnigirl
09-08-2010, 01:35 AM
What is MissKelley's IQ? What grade had he completed in school? Did he have learning assistance, what were his issues in school? Especially with processing information.

What IQ is considered mentally handicapped in the US?

I believe this could be important...

Mrs G Norris
09-08-2010, 01:47 AM
Here you go for mental retardation in accordance with IQ results...

http://www.iq-tests.eu/iq-test-Mental-retardation-430.html

Jessie Misskelley's IQ has been recorded between 72 and 88 at different times.

*~Aimee~*
09-08-2010, 01:53 AM
It seemed the questions were leading and he just said what they said? Am I wrong? for instance:

RIDGE: A little patch of woods
JESSIE: A little patch of woods



RIDGE: Is there a path that you go down?
JESSIE: Uh, down a little path



RIDGE: And then they tied them
JESSIE: Then they tied them up,

Brwnigirl
09-08-2010, 02:15 AM
Here you go for mental retardation in accordance with IQ results...

http://www.iq-tests.eu/iq-test-Mental-retardation-430.html

Jessie Misskelley's IQ has been recorded between 72 and 88 at different times.

Interesting, in Canada, it is IQ of 70 or below to qualify for services. 72-88 gets you nothin and is not considered "mentally handicapped". To me 72 and 88 are quite a ways apart in terms of adaptive functioning, but maybe he has different scores as his results are higher in some areas than others (scattered)

Mrs G Norris
09-08-2010, 04:23 AM
^ the two different results come from two different tests he took at different times, I am going on a search to find how and why, and will post when I do. There shouldn't be that much of a different results between tests IMO, a couple of points yes, but not 16, especially in that range.

I have to say judging him on video and by his interviews like this one http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmfeb.html he sounds on the slow side, but nowhere near retarded IMO.

.....and on that statement above, if it's not a true confession, there's an awful lot of detail in it, and would put his IQ in an even higher range if he was able to piece together all the evidence, and build a reasonable story around it to fit.

Mrs G Norris
09-09-2010, 01:05 AM
Here is audio of Jessie's confessions http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/audio.html worth hearing the original.

Nova
10-07-2010, 07:02 AM
^ the two different results come from two different tests he took at different times, I am going on a search to find how and why, and will post when I do. There shouldn't be that much of a different results between tests IMO, a couple of points yes, but not 16, especially in that range.

I have to say judging him on video and by his interviews like this one http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmfeb.html he sounds on the slow side, but nowhere near retarded IMO.

.....and on that statement above, if it's not a true confession, there's an awful lot of detail in it, and would put his IQ in an even higher range if he was able to piece together all the evidence, and build a reasonable story around it to fit.

Not if he was coached, as it seems obvious he was. Of course he could be guilty and still telling his interrogators what he thought they wanted to hear. The problem is that his "confession" is about the only evidence that any of the three were involved.

Nova
10-07-2010, 07:03 AM
Here is audio of Jessie's confessions http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/audio.html worth hearing the original.

Just a note: IIRC, those are only partial recordings. No complete recording exists. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Mrs G Norris
10-07-2010, 07:36 AM
Just a note: IIRC, those are only partial recordings. No complete recording exists. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Yes and no, the first confessions taken during the initial police interviews are partial because they didn't record all interviews automatically at that time (Off topic, but can you believe that? When I heard that come out at trial it just blew my mind, they had tape recording devices there so why not use them right?? ....rant over), so the tape started rolling well into the conversation, and recorded what is tantamount to a police statement, and is quite a mess.

The Feb 17 confession is complete I believe.

Mrs G Norris
10-08-2010, 04:56 AM
This is a statement taken from Jessies' friend Buddy Lucas regarding Jessie's demeanour the day after the murders, v interesting.... http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_lucas_interview.html

RIDGE - DID HE TELL YOU HE HAD BEEN CRYING?

LUCAS - UH-UH

RIDGE - OKAY, SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HE TELLS YOU HE HAS TO TELL YOU SOMETHING?

LUCAS - SO WE SIT THERE, SIT THERE, AND I SAID, HE SAID MAN ME JASON AND DAMIEN WE WENT WALKING LAST NIGHT IN THE TOWN OF WEST MEMPHIS, I SAID WHY DIDN'T YOU ALL COME BY AND GET ME? WE WILL WE UH, WE WERE IN A HURRY AND EVERYTHING GO UP THERE AND COME BACK HOME. I SAID ALRIGHT I UNDERSTAND (INAUDIBLE) NOW SINCE I FOUND OUT I'M KINDA GLAD HE DIDN'T COME BY AND GET ME

RIDGE - OKAY, WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE DO?

LUCAS - WE.... HE TOLD ME THAT UH, THAT HE GOT IN A FIGHT, THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD ME AT FIRST

RIDGE - OKAY

LUCAS - I SAID DAMIEN AND JASON THEY HELPED YOU? HE SAID UM-YEA AND EVERYTHING SO I SAID WELL DID YOU ALL HURT ANYBODY? AND HE SAID YEA, I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS THOSE 8 YEAR OLD KIDS OR ANYTHING, SO I TURN AROUND AND COME TO FOUND OUT THAT JASON HE WAS WITH JASON AND DAMIEN WHEN THEY SACRIFICED THEM LITTLE KIDS. I WAS COME AND TELL YOU ALL

RIDGE - OKAY

LUCAS - AND HE SAID NO I'LL DO IT

RIDGE - SO HE TELLS YOU HE WILL COME TO THE POLICE

LUCAS: UH-HUH, AND ALRIGHT THAT WEEKEND I CAME BACK OVER AT MY MOM'S AND EVERYTHING

RIDGE - UH-HUH

LUCAS - I READ ABOUT IT IN THE PAPER AND EVERYTHING AND COME TO FOUND OUT HE DID FRONT HIS SELF THAT HE DID DO IT CAUSE HE TOLD ME HE WOULD

He was given a polygraph examination after he tried to retract the information he gave where he stated he had lied in the above statement...he failed that polygraph, results here: http://callahan.8k.com/images/b_lucas/lucas_b_poly.jpg so there are other witnesses to the fact that Jessie confessed after the crime besides the police involved.

Nova
10-08-2010, 06:56 AM
Yes and no, the first confessions taken during the initial police interviews are partial because they didn't record all interviews automatically at that time (Off topic, but can you believe that? When I heard that come out at trial it just blew my mind, they had tape recording devices there so why not use them right?? ....rant over), so the tape started rolling well into the conversation, and recorded what is tantamount to a police statement, and is quite a mess.

The Feb 17 confession is complete I believe.

OT: I agree with your rant, BTW. I realize these interrogations are nearly 20 years old, but in this day and age, there's no excuse for not taping everything.

I've been a juror several times, including on one murder case where I had no trouble voting guilty.

But I sometimes wonder what I will do the next time I am on a case, if the verdict turns on a confession that wasn't taped. At the very least, my suspicions will be raised.

Nova
10-08-2010, 07:06 AM
This is a statement taken from Jessies' friend Buddy Lucas regarding Jessie's demeanour the day after the murders, v interesting.... http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/b_lucas_interview.html

RIDGE - DID HE TELL YOU HE HAD BEEN CRYING?

LUCAS - UH-UH

RIDGE - OKAY, SO WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HE TELLS YOU HE HAS TO TELL YOU SOMETHING?

LUCAS - SO WE SIT THERE, SIT THERE, AND I SAID, HE SAID MAN ME JASON AND DAMIEN WE WENT WALKING LAST NIGHT IN THE TOWN OF WEST MEMPHIS, I SAID WHY DIDN'T YOU ALL COME BY AND GET ME? WE WILL WE UH, WE WERE IN A HURRY AND EVERYTHING GO UP THERE AND COME BACK HOME. I SAID ALRIGHT I UNDERSTAND (INAUDIBLE) NOW SINCE I FOUND OUT I'M KINDA GLAD HE DIDN'T COME BY AND GET ME

RIDGE - OKAY, WHAT DID HE TELL YOU HE DO?

LUCAS - WE.... HE TOLD ME THAT UH, THAT HE GOT IN A FIGHT, THAT'S WHAT HE TOLD ME AT FIRST

RIDGE - OKAY

LUCAS - I SAID DAMIEN AND JASON THEY HELPED YOU? HE SAID UM-YEA AND EVERYTHING SO I SAID WELL DID YOU ALL HURT ANYBODY? AND HE SAID YEA, I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS THOSE 8 YEAR OLD KIDS OR ANYTHING, SO I TURN AROUND AND COME TO FOUND OUT THAT JASON HE WAS WITH JASON AND DAMIEN WHEN THEY SACRIFICED THEM LITTLE KIDS. I WAS COME AND TELL YOU ALL

RIDGE - OKAY

LUCAS - AND HE SAID NO I'LL DO IT

RIDGE - SO HE TELLS YOU HE WILL COME TO THE POLICE

LUCAS: UH-HUH, AND ALRIGHT THAT WEEKEND I CAME BACK OVER AT MY MOM'S AND EVERYTHING

RIDGE - UH-HUH

LUCAS - I READ ABOUT IT IN THE PAPER AND EVERYTHING AND COME TO FOUND OUT HE DID FRONT HIS SELF THAT HE DID DO IT CAUSE HE TOLD ME HE WOULD

He was given a polygraph examination after he tried to retract the information he gave where he stated he had lied in the above statement...he failed that polygraph, results here: http://callahan.8k.com/images/b_lucas/lucas_b_poly.jpg so there are other witnesses to the fact that Jessie confessed after the crime besides the police involved.

Mrs. Norris,

My problem with such corroborating statements is that so many witnesses have testified that they were pressured into making statements by the WMPD, I don't know what to believe. Of course it's possible Lucas wasn't pressured, and it's possible he was pressured yet still told the truth.

On the other hand, we still have the problem that Misskelley barely knew Echols and Baldwin at the time of the murders, yet here we have Lucas claiming Misskelley casually claimed he took a walk with Echols and Baldwin. THEN we have Lucas saying "Why didn't ya'll come and get me?" as if all four hung out together regularly.

Yet we also have a friend of JM (I've forgotten her name but she was the one who testified about attending Satanic rituals with the boys, yet later recanted) saying JM asked her to put him in contact with Echols because he barely knew him.

Maybe there's a simple explanation here, but there's also the possibility that the WMPD put together their theory of the crime first (prompted heavily by tales of Echols' "weirdness") and then pressured everyone in town to make sense of the theory.

Mrs G Norris
10-08-2010, 07:37 AM
I think Buddy said 'why didn't y'all come and get me' because he and Jessie hung out on a daily basis and expected to be included on this jaunt which, until he heard the whole story, sounded like fun.

...and you can't be suggesting that WMPD pressured everyone in town to come along with the ride to put 3 innocent boys behind bars for a crime against 3 innocent younger boys which had traumatised nearly everybody who heard it are you? The simple explanation is that the statement is correct, that Jessie couldn't keep his mouth shut after the crime and told his closest friend, and LE once they questioned him because he was himself upset by what had happened.

There are other statements by Buddy on here....he sounds like a little darling IMO. This one between Buddy, Fogelman and Buddy's mom shows his character quite well, and he describes his fears of the police here too about being 'hollared at' etc... http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/audio/html/fogleman_hudson_lucas.html but his great fear is clearly that he didn't want to testify against his friend Jessie.

Interesting info in the audio about the investigator hired by the Echols defense too, sounds like he had intimidated a number of witnesses himself.

Mrs G Norris
10-09-2010, 08:14 PM
Also in regards to how well Jessie knew Damien and Jason, it's true that he didn't know Damien well but 'Jessie said that he had known Jason Baldwin since the 6th Grade' from his conversation with LE on the way to prison here (http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmpc.html).

Dirty larry
10-12-2010, 03:09 PM
the two different results come from two different tests he took at different times, I am going on a search to find how and why, and will post when I do. There shouldn't be that much of a different results between tests IMO, a couple of points yes, but not 16, especially in that range.

I have already posted the information on his testing here, but I will create a new thread to answer this.

Suffice to say, it's painfully obvious from the transcripts why his results changed.