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View Full Version : 2010.06.13 Kyron's case turns to Criminal investigation-Why?



butterfly1978
06-17-2010, 04:33 AM
Police leading the search for a 7-year-old Oregon boy who disappeared from his school 10 days ago announced today that their effort is now focused on a criminal investigation.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/kyron-horman-search-now-criminal-investigation/story?id=10903721

Why did they ramp up the search for Kyron and 3 days later abruptly halt the search and call it a criminal investigation, yet continue to search Sauvi Island, and ask for video from certain locations but not others?
Why was this not a criminal investigation from day one or was this a dual effort?

DairyGirl
06-17-2010, 04:56 AM
Police leading the search for a 7-year-old Oregon boy who disappeared from his school 10 days ago announced today that their effort is now focused on a criminal investigation.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/kyron-horman-search-now-criminal-investigation/story?id=10903721

Why did they ramp up the search for Kyron and 3 days later abruptly halt the search and call it a criminal investigation, yet continue to search Sauvi Island, and ask for video from certain locations but not others?
Why was this not a criminal investigation from day one or was this a dual effort?

Maybe some evidence came to light?

butterfly1978
06-17-2010, 05:05 AM
Maybe some evidence came to light?

But what kind of evidence would make them call off the ground search, and only search one location and want video from about 10 diffrent roads?

My eyes are going crossed I gotta go to bed, Night folks. Night Kyron.

pufnstuf
06-17-2010, 05:13 AM
Police leading the search for a 7-year-old Oregon boy who disappeared from his school 10 days ago announced today that their effort is now focused on a criminal investigation.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Media/kyron-horman-search-now-criminal-investigation/story?id=10903721

Why did they ramp up the search for Kyron and 3 days later abruptly halt the search and call it a criminal investigation, yet continue to search Sauvi Island, and ask for video from certain locations but not others?
Why was this not a criminal investigation from day one or was this a dual effort?

I think that they were investigating concurrent with the search. I think that the declaration that they made last Sunday was a shift for public information purposes, but that a criminal investigation has been going on since Kyron was reported missing.

JMO.

Bobbisangel
06-18-2010, 03:05 AM
I don't know where to put this question but I want to know why the school didn't contact the parents to let them know that their son was missing from school? From what I've read they discovered he was missing when he didn't arrive home on the school bus! It was discovered in the morning I believe that he wasn't with the rest of the students in his room. I just can't believe the parents weren't notified. Hours were wasted in searching for this little guy when the school didn't say anything and the parents didn't know he was missing.

I really wonder if he went missing in the school hallway. It just seems that there is something missing in this story.

CharlestonGal
06-18-2010, 05:03 AM
I don't know where to put this question but I want to know why the school didn't contact the parents to let them know that their son was missing from school? From what I've read they discovered he was missing when he didn't arrive home on the school bus! It was discovered in the morning I believe that he wasn't with the rest of the students in his room. I just can't believe the parents weren't notified. Hours were wasted in searching for this little guy when the school didn't say anything and the parents didn't know he was missing.

I really wonder if he went missing in the school hallway. It just seems that there is something missing in this story.

This particular school did not have an auto-dialer system in place to notify parents of absences, nor did they have a policy of calling parents manually when children were absent. According to the school, Kyron was not present at roll call the morning of June 4th, so the teacher marked him absent. Policy did not require a call to parents under those circumstances.

Also according to the school, 2 teachers saw him with his SM and thought he had left with her, so they thought no more about it. The school did not consider Kyron "missing" because the teachers thought he left with SM.

pufnstuf
09-09-2010, 06:06 PM
This article (http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kyron-Hormans-eighth-birthday-is-today-missing-portland-102488964.html) does a pretty good job summing up Kyron's case. One part of the article piqued my interest, as I had forgotten about what exactly caused the case to turn from a "missing persons" investigation to a "criminal" investigation.

In my opinion, the case had been a criminal case since shortly after Kyron disappeared, in that someone must have committed a crime when it became obvious that Kyron hadn't just walked off from school. So I feel certain that LE were investigating the potential criminal aspect of Kyron's disappearance from early after he went missing.

But why the sudden public turn of face for LE on June 13th, even to the point of sending SAR teams home? What happened on that weekend?

Interested in opinions and sourced info on this. Anything you think, please post. Anything with source articles, please post.

Thanks.

The snippet:


On Friday, June 11, Kyron's parents and step-parents appeared together and the two fathers spoke, begging for Kyron's safe return. On Web sites and social networks, readers commented on Terri Horman's demeanor at the press conference: Sobs, but no tears, and awkward body language.

The first inkling that the investigation turned bad was a simple one. On the following Sunday, the sheriff's office asked the public to hold off on donations for the the searchers. Hours later, police said his disappearance was a criminal case and sent most searchers home.

SurfieTX
09-09-2010, 06:10 PM
Thank you!! I've been thinking this was a HUGE pivotal point in the case myself, which is why the case review thread (thanks BeanE..you ROCK!) has been so helpful. I've been particularly interested in and focused on what happened, was investigated, was found, etc. up to that point.

cluciano63
09-09-2010, 06:11 PM
I think it is a combination of the facts that they could not find him in what seemed to be a reasonable distance had he wandered, with the fact that they could not clear a family member. I don't think they had anything solid to go on in naming it a criminal case, but if not accidental, what else can they call it? There are not many choices available.

Calliope
09-09-2010, 06:14 PM
On at least one occasion (and I'm thinking more than once), LE stated they were doing simultaneous investigations, they didn't just *start* investigating it as a crime when they made this announcement on 6/13. They'd been doing so all along.

jadejazzkayla
09-09-2010, 06:17 PM
listening to the pc from june 5 and 6, le implies (twice) they are running a missing person case and an investigative case.

at a point in time the search had to come to a close. either by finding kyron or by a time limit put on by le.

the evening of sunday june 13th was that time limit.

and le became comfortable enough to call the investigative case criminal as opposed to having its investigative case be regarded as maybe accidental.

all jmo of course.

stmarysmead
09-09-2010, 06:17 PM
Terrific topic, Pufnstuf!

I'm curious too and also curious as to why there seems to be so many different agencies involved in this case. I'm going to be interested in what all you more experienced Sleuthers have to say!

Thank you, Pufnstuf!

BeanE
09-09-2010, 06:29 PM
STATEMENT FROM CAPT. MONTE REISER:

Good afternoon. I am Multnomah County Sheriff's Office Captain Monte Reiser. We're here today with Kyron's family. Again, they are not prepared to answer questions today -- but they wanted to show their support for the ongoing operations.

Kyron's family has received a large shipment of Kyron's missing-person T-shirts that they would like to provide to the community. The shirts will be available on a first-come, first-served basis at the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office Hansen Building, located at 12240 NE Glisan Street in Portland, Oregon. T-shirts will be available at 3 p.m. today.

Also, Sheriff Dan Staton is going to make a statement shortly -- but I want to start with an update on the logistics of the search for Kyron.

We are on Day 10 of the search. As of this afternoon, the search-and-rescue crews will have completed the mission that we set out for them. And that mission was to search -- and in many cases search two or three or more times -- EVERY location of interest. That includes an extremely wide area of land around the school, around the home and the land in-between. It also includes a number of individual locations that have come up as a result of tips and investigative leads that we have been working.

snip

With the search-and-rescue mission completed at this time, we are moving operations toward the criminal investigative end of the spectrum. While we still are keeping all options open, it is a natural progression to move the overall focus to a criminal case.

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm

Explained in the presser and release that day.

Search and rescue = live child. The period of time in which Kyron could have survived if he'd just wandered off on his own had expired, and with no signs he'd wandered off - and no signs of what had happened to him - LE proceeds to a crime having been committed, to Kyron having been removed from the school, without his parents' consent, which is a crime.

Standard procedure so far as I understand.

cluciano63
09-09-2010, 06:29 PM
I think they called in assistance from all possible agencies as they did not, and still don't know, what they have, whether it is a kidnapping, a smuggling situation, some kind of organized crime thing, whatever. I think they were just trying to cover all the bases in such an unusual disappearance. It is fairly clear now, that LE has determined this to be more of close-to-home abduction, but they obviously don't know what happened to Kyron or have any idea where he is, so I would imagine they are still open to help from any and all as far as that goes. Knowing the who, in this case, is not going to solve it.

pufnstuf
09-09-2010, 06:36 PM
Explained in the presser and release that day.

Search and rescue = live child. The period of time in which Kyron could have survived if he'd just wandered off on his own had expired, and with no signs he'd wandered off - and no signs of what had happened to him - LE proceeds to a crime having been committed, to Kyron having been removed from the school, without his parents' consent, which is a crime.

Standard procedure so far as I understand.

No, I don't agree. Kyron could have walked off and died of exposure or dehydration, and his body may not have been found yet. It had only been a little over a week since he had disappeared when the investigation turned criminal.

I really don't think that it was a "natural progression" to go from calling in SAR teams all over two states to participate in the search, to request donations for food, water, money, and then to suddenly say that the case was now criminal and SAR teams were being sent home. If I remember correctly, the fact that hundreds of SAR teams were pouring into Mult Co. and were going to search every inch of land in a five-mile radius of Skyline was the plan. But suddenly they were sent home--and Kyron still had not been found.

To me, something happened that caused LE to decisively state that the case was now criminal on June 13. I really really wonder what that "something" was.

pufnstuf
09-09-2010, 06:46 PM
The case that I find comparable is the Emmett Trap case.

He was two years old, and his body was found three miles from his home. He was barefoot and wearing a diaper when he disappeared. And he walked THREE MILES--two years old, barefoot, through all kinds of rough terrain.

Searchers started looking for him on a Monday night. He was found Thursday morning. He was only two and had walked 3 miles... hate to keep reiterating that, but that's a LOT of ground for a barefoot 2-year-old to cover.

Kyron was seven, dressed, in shoes when he disappeared. Ten days later (+/-) SAR teams were dispersed and his case was announced to now be criminal.

I don't think that it became criminal simply because they had not found him yet, therefore, it must be an abduction.

I think his case became criminal because something happened on that June 11-13 weekend to cause a sudden shift--a shift that was announced to the public, a shift that resulted in SAR teams being sent home.

After June 13, SAR teams were seen in places where tips came in, as I recall. So there were a few local SAR folks in the field after June 13, but they were targeting Sauvie Island, and a cadaver dog was seen on a boat on the Columbia.

The huge thing to me is that SAR teams were sent home as soon as the case became publicly criminal. I don't think that's typical in missing persons cases. MOO.

BeanE
09-09-2010, 06:49 PM
No, I don't agree. Kyron could have walked off and died of exposure or dehydration, and his body may not have been found yet. It had only been a little over a week since he had disappeared when the investigation turned criminal.

I really don't think that it was a "natural progression" to go from calling in SAR teams all over two states to participate in the search, to request donations for food, water, money, and then to suddenly say that the case was now criminal and SAR teams were being sent home. If I remember correctly, the fact that hundreds of SAR teams were pouring into Mult Co. and were going to search every inch of land in a five-mile radius of Skyline was the plan. But suddenly they were sent home--and Kyron still had not been found.

To me, something happened that caused LE to decisively state that the case was now criminal on June 13. I really really wonder what that "something" was.

BBM. As I said, with no signs he'd wandered off, or of anything else, a decision has to be made on what most likely happened to the child, and which direction the investigation is going to take. They can't just say "Oh well, maybe he'd died out there somewhere and maybe his body will turn up some day." They have to account for what happened to the child, account for what they do next.

There's lots of info out there on the net on the process. I'll see if I can spend some time tomorrow to gather a few references.

pufnstuf
09-09-2010, 06:54 PM
BBM. As I said, with no signs he'd wandered off, or of anything else, a decision has to be made on what most likely happened to the child, and which direction the investigation is going to take. They can't just say "Oh well, maybe he'd died out there somewhere and maybe his body will turn up some day." They have to account for what happened to the child, account for what they do next.

There's lots of info out there on the net on the process. I'll see if I can spend some time tomorrow to gather a few references.

Yeah, I get that... I agree to a point. My big question is what happened on June 11-13 that necessitated a public announcement that SAR teams were being dismissed and the case was now criminal.

I think the only thing that you and I disagree on is that you think it was the next logical step to send SAR home and call it a criminal investigation, and I think that something triggered sending SAR home and calling it a criminal investigation. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to lay out where I think you and I disagree...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in stating what you think.

BeanE
09-09-2010, 07:02 PM
Yeah, I get that... I agree to a point. My big question is what happened on June 11-13 that necessitated a public announcement that SAR teams were being dismissed and the case was now criminal.

I think the only thing that you and I disagree on is that you think it was the next logical step to send SAR home and call it a criminal investigation, and I think that something triggered sending SAR home and calling it a criminal investigation. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to lay out where I think you and I disagree...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in stating what you think.

I was looking today at a pretty good timeline on thehinkymeter.com. It's linked in, in a PDF file. Maybe looking at that where all the info on what happened in that timeframe is put together would help surface what might have influenced LE to 'go criminal' at that particular point.

I did notice in looking it over that a couple things were missing, but I can't recall right off if they were in that specific timeframe. I'll have to look again.

eyes4crime
09-09-2010, 07:26 PM
I was looking today at a pretty good timeline on thehinkymeter.com. It's linked in, in a PDF file. Maybe looking at that where all the info on what happened in that timeframe is put together would help surface what might have influenced LE to 'go criminal' at that particular point.

I did notice in looking it over that a couple things were missing, but I can't recall right off if they were in that specific timeframe. I'll have to look again.

BeanE, you're proclivity for detail and facts deserve a gold medal...I bet you were an extraordinary baby! lol ....11218

loves2bmom
09-09-2010, 08:17 PM
I thought it had something to do with searching people's property?? In the early stages, they made sure to call it a missing and endangered child so that not only did they not need a search warrant to check property in and around Skyline but they also were not interested in prosecuting people for growing illegal plants if you get my drift. Once they've exhausted those searches it switched over to a criminal case and I think from that point on they needed a warrant to search unless given permisison. Just guessing...don't know this as fact! ;) I think they also obtain different funding and resources with each stage of the case. JMO

TxLady2
09-09-2010, 08:26 PM
I definitely don't think they found his body, or Kaine and Desiree wouldn't still be in the media begging for his return. That would be beyond cruel.
Maybe his glasses, or a shoe or part of his clothing was found, and they're just managing to keep it quiet... although I can't see why something like that could be kept from the media for this long.
BeanE, I tend to agree with you... I don't think something necessarily had to happen for them to declare it a criminal investigation. Maybe it was just the suspicions they had of Terri all piling up, and they put two and two together. Because if they determined he didn't wander off on his own, then anything else that happened to him would be a criminal act.

Donjeta
09-09-2010, 08:30 PM
I wonder when they talked to the LS for the first time.

cluciano63
09-09-2010, 08:50 PM
I tend to think that in reality they were always searching for his body...that they suspected he was deceased soon after they began interviews and put up a good search effort, hoping he was in the near vicinity, then determined after about 9 days, that he might not be and proceeded onto the criminal part.

Openmyeyes
09-09-2010, 08:51 PM
Pressure, politics and catching Terri doing the CYA dance, and that my friends is why they decided to call the case criminal.

Jo in Calif
09-09-2010, 08:56 PM
I wonder when they talked to the LS for the first time.
I would think it would be a few days before Kaine left with the Baby. Was that the 26th of June, BeanE will know.

sherbetjello
09-09-2010, 09:04 PM
I don't live in this area, but I am seeing a similar "trend" around the country... elections are coming up. People want to be shown confidence, leadership, people want to be controlled (or at least the environments we live in.) I think if LE didn't say this was a criminal investigation the way they did, and with what timing, some peoples jobs would be on the line. As we all know, the economy is bad and people will do about JUST ANYTHING to keep their jobs.

I honestly think this case stopped being about Kyron the moment that Terri became "suspect."
JMO.

jadejazzkayla
09-09-2010, 09:23 PM
I tend to think that in reality they were always searching for his body...that they suspected he was deceased soon after they began interviews and put up a good search effort, hoping he was in the near vicinity, then determined after about 9 days, that he might not be and proceeded onto the criminal part.

I do agree that le would never have been surprised if they found a dead kyron.

but..... i believe le was conducting a missing child case, from the start and at the same time they were conducting a criminal case. starting from the phone call telling them of kyron's disappearance.

when the Portland le called in other groups to help them, they had people that were searchers and people that were investigators. The search people would have to have an end date - i believe they had the end date told to them before they even started. the investigative groups could help the portland cops and the da direct their investigative end and they would also know their end date.

I believe these groups were told that the end date was Sunday June 13 and I said these words before it happened. Not saying I'm right - just saying I thought something similar on june 13th.


here is what i wrote on another one of our thread on june 13th

today may just be the deadline that le gave themselves before they scaled back searches and called this thing a criminal investigation. sort of a natural progression thing. remember a few days ago when gates said something about "hoping this thing being would be wrapped up by the end of the week"? just a thought.

Dee10
09-09-2010, 10:28 PM
In one of the pressers I believe they gave a point on how many days it was expected a child could reasonably survive. However I don't know if this time corresponded with that estimate and that was the reason for the change to a criminal investigation?

SacreBleu
09-09-2010, 10:46 PM
Isn't the natural progression SAR, recovery, then POSSIBLY criminal investigation?

I mean, it seems when someone goes missing and there is no criminal intent imagined, the next step is recovery.

But, I have not WS'd for long, so I may be completely wrong...

SmoothOperator
09-09-2010, 10:47 PM
I, as several others have already stated, believe that LE were running both a missing persons investigation as well as a criminal investigation from very very early on in Kyrons disappearance. My opinion of why so very early on they not only decided to do parallel investigations but also began to focus in on Terri possibly more so than any other member of the family was due to their initial interview with Krista Porter(Kyrons second grade teacher).

My opinion is that unlike what Terri has said "that the teacher totally confused what she had said" that Terri had told the teacher that she was going to look at other science fair exhibits and that "somehow" the teacher thought that Terri said that she was taking Kyron and baby K to a drs appt that day.(that info per terri's email on June 5th). I believe that K. Porter clearly understood what Terri said to her that morning of June 4th and that there was no "confusion", none whatsoever. I believe that K.Porter still had very fresh In her mind the exact words that Terri spoke to her that morning. It would have only been a few hours prior to her telling investigators of the conversation, so IMO IT having took place such a short time before Kyron being discovered missing would make it even more likely to have been remembered crystal clear whereas if say the convo had taken place days or weeks prior then I could see the possibility of it not being as "fresh" of a recollection.


IMO there was absolutely no confusion on the part of Krista Porter about the words spoken to her by Terri that very morning of June 4th. If you think about it, it IS ONLY PER TERRI THAT THERE WAS ANY CONFUSION INVOLVED IN THE STATEMENT OF KYRON HAVING A DR APPT. initially we heard this per Jamie Finster stating in an interview with Oregonlive that Terri was tired of being questioned multiple times and was already on her 2nd LDT, along with the info that Kyrons teacher was hard of hearing and a brand new teacher and because of this she had confused Terri's words concerning a dr appt for that Friday the 4th. Per Jamie Terri said that she had told the teacher the appt was for Friday June 11th therefor the "mistake" or "confusion" was due to her inexperience in being a new teacher and that she also had a hearing problem.

These two versions of the same exact event, in looking at the two alone draw suspicion. You have Terri talking about a statement saying she was going to look at exhibits being TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED INTO Terri saying she was taking kyron and baby k to a dr appt. Then you have Terri stating that she told Porter that kyron had a dr appt on June 11th and because Porter was hard of hearing and inexperienced she HAD TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD and thought that Terri said she was taking Kyron to the dr on that very day, Friday June 4th.
So which is the true story of how it happened?

But even if you completely disregard Finsters statement all together because of it being hearsay. The fact remains still that per Terri THE STATEMENT that was made to Porrter was the morning of June 4th(meaning it would still be very fresh in Porters mind what was said rather than it having took place days before), along WITH THE FACT THAT TERRI IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS STATING THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION IN AND AROUND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE THAT MORNING OF JUNE 4th.

My point being that Terri IMO IS THE ONLY ONE "putting out there" that there was a problem with Porter being "confused" "misunderstood". When IMO there was no confusion. Porter knows exactly what was said and relayed that to Investigators VERY EARLY ON probably as early as late afternoon of June 4th thus leading INVESTIGATORS TO NOT ONLY DECIDE TO RUN PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO TO FOCUS MORE ON TERRI and WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TOLD KYRONS TEACHER ON SPECIFICALLY THAT VERY MORNING(out of all mornings of the entire year) IT WAS THAT SPECIFIC MORNING THAT TERRI TOLD HIS TEACHER THAT this "misunderstood" information that WAS THE SOLE CAUSE AND REASON FOR KYRON NOT HAVING BEEN DISCOVERED "missing" for a full 6+ hours from the time he had actually been missing.

The entire reason it went "unnoticed" was because of what was said by Terri to Kristina Porter on that very morning of the 4th(minutes before Kyron would go "missing"). I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tink56
09-09-2010, 11:02 PM
Living in southern California and having watched the investigation for three missing girls--Danielle Van Dam, Amber Dubois, and Chelsea King--it appears that without some evidence of the young person (sightings, telephone response, etc.) the search very quickly becomes a kidnapping investigation.

After the family members were cleared in these cases (lie detector tests, etc.) and the child was not located (within 1-2 days) the criminal investigation began. The exception was Amber Dubois's case in which there was a telephone ping from her cell the day following her disappearance and erroneous sightings of her by teen "acquaintances" and the public.

I don't think there is anything out of the ordinary in the change in the KyH case. It was called a "criminal" investigation because to LE KyH did not have the means or capabilities to "disappear" on his own. They had searched to obvious places without finding a trace of him. His family was interviewed and given LD tests. Therefore, LE had to change the status of the case to enlarge the search and continue the the investigation.

Regardless of the results of TH's LD test, IMO, LE would have been forced to reclassify the case on day 3 or 4 in order to continue actively searching for KyH.

Jo in Calif
09-09-2010, 11:04 PM
I, as several others have already stated, believe that LE were running both a missing persons investigation as well as a criminal investigation from very very early on in Kyrons disappearance. My opinion of why so very early on they not only decided to do parallel investigations but also began to focus in on Terri possibly more so than any other member of the family was due to their initial interview with Krista Porter(Kyrons second grade teacher).

My opinion is that unlike what Terri has said "that the teacher totally confused what she had said" that Terri had told the teacher that she was going to look at other science fair exhibits and that "somehow" the teacher thought that Terri said that she was taking Kyron and baby K to a drs appt that day.(that info per terri's email on June 5th). I believe that K. Porter clearly understood what Terri said to her that morning of June 4th and that there was no "confusion", none whatsoever. I believe that K.Porter still had very fresh In her mind the exact words that Terri spoke to her that morning. It would have only been a few hours prior to her telling investigators of the conversation, so IMO IT having took place such a short time before Kyron being discovered missing would make it even more likely to have been remembered crystal clear whereas if say the convo had taken place days or weeks prior then I could see the possibility of it not being as "fresh" of a recollection.


IMO there was absolutely no confusion on the part of Krista Porter about the words spoken to her by Terri that very morning of June 4th. If you think about it, it IS ONLY PER TERRI THAT THERE WAS ANY CONFUSION INVOLVED IN THE STATEMENT OF KYRON HAVING A DR APPT. initially we heard this per Jamie Finster stating in an interview with Oregonlive that Terri was tired of being questioned multiple times and was already on her 2nd LDT, along with the info that Kyrons teacher was hard of hearing and a brand new teacher and because of this she had confused Terri's words concerning a dr appt for that Friday the 4th. Per Jamie Terri said that she had told the teacher the appt was for Friday June 11th therefor the "mistake" or "confusion" was due to her inexperience in being a new teacher and that she also had a hearing problem.

These two versions of the same exact event, in looking at the two alone draw suspicion. You have Terri talking about a statement saying she was going to look at exhibits being TOTALLY MISCONSTRUED INTO Terri saying she was taking kyron and baby k to a dr appt. Then you have Terri stating that she told Porter that kyron had a dr appt on June 11th and because Porter was hard of hearing and inexperienced she HAD TOTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD and thought that Terri said she was taking Kyron to the dr on that very day, Friday June 4th.
So which is the true story of how it happened?

But even if you completely disregard Finsters statement all together because of it being hearsay. The fact remains still that per Terri THE STATEMENT that was made to Porrter was the morning of June 4th(meaning it would still be very fresh in Porters mind what was said rather than it having took place days before), along WITH THE FACT THAT TERRI IS THE ONLY ONE WHO IS STATING THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION IN AND AROUND THE STATEMENT THAT WAS MADE THAT MORNING OF JUNE 4th.

My point being that Terri IMO IS THE ONLY ONE "putting out there" that there was a problem with Porter being "confused" "misunderstood". When IMO there was no confusion. Porter knows exactly what was said and relayed that to Investigators VERY EARLY ON probably as early as late afternoon of June 4th thus leading INVESTIGATORS TO NOT ONLY DECIDE TO RUN PARALLEL INVESTIGATIONS BUT ALSO TO FOCUS MORE ON TERRI and WHY WOULD SHE HAVE TOLD KYRONS TEACHER ON SPECIFICALLY THAT VERY MORNING(out of all mornings of the entire year) IT WAS THAT SPECIFIC MORNING THAT TERRI TOLD HIS TEACHER THAT this "misunderstood" information that WAS THE SOLE CAUSE AND REASON FOR KYRON NOT HAVING BEEN DISCOVERED "missing" for a full 6+ hours from the time he had actually been missing.

The entire reason it went "unnoticed" was because of what was said by Terri to Kristina Porter on that very morning of the 4th(minutes before Kyron would go "missing"). I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smooth, a special Thank you, I have said this over and over, as I think you also have, can't be said enough. can't see how it can be argued. Thank You, Thank You!

SacreBleu
09-09-2010, 11:05 PM
I believe that K. Porter probably has verbatim the exact words Terri spoke to her that fateful morning FOREVER ETCHED IN HER MIND FOREVER.
AND I BELIEVE KRISTA PORTER WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM OR "CONFUSION" TESTIFYING TO THOSE EXACT WORDS.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bravo, SO!

ETA: Oops! And apparently you, too, Jo!

BeanE
09-10-2010, 07:10 AM
I would think it would be a few days before Kaine left with the Baby. Was that the 26th of June, BeanE will know.

Yes, he left on the 26th. If you watch the interviews of Kaine on the 25th, in the order he did them, there seems to be a change, a shift, both in how he looks, and in how he talks. I rarely get into how people look/talk, but this did stand out to me, and I think LE may have talked to him to some extent on this date. Because he said he had 15 minutes to pack and get out though, I don't think they hit him with the big whammy stick until the 26th.

BeanE
09-10-2010, 07:14 AM
In one of the pressers I believe they gave a point on how many days it was expected a child could reasonably survive. However I don't know if this time corresponded with that estimate and that was the reason for the change to a criminal investigation?

It was Gates, in a Q&A, in response to a reporter's question. He said something like 'we've had people survive for 2 weeks'.

I have 10 days stuck in my head, but can't remember where that came from. It seems I remember some of us looked up other cases of children of similar age. It *might* have come from Nadia's case, where LE was more open about needing to find her before that time in which she could survive ran out.

debs
09-10-2010, 09:17 AM
I would be very curious to know if the date they announced it was now a criminal investigation coincided with the time when they learned about an alleged mfh plot from the landscaper.

BeanE
09-10-2010, 09:23 AM
I apologise. The timeline on the Hinky Meter isn't the one I was thinking of when I posted yesterday. The one I was thinking of covers the whole case, and isn't on a linkable site. I got the two confused. The one on the Hinky Meter covers only June 4.

CN2Souls
09-10-2010, 09:25 AM
Wasn’t it On the fifth day of the search, (June 9th) ...

at the news conference by Skyline Elementary Principal Ben Keefer,

who said he couldn't comment on "an ongoing criminal investigation."

http://www.kptv.com/news/23834239/detail.html


Then LE stopped the news conference abruptly....:waitasec:

Also to add, the FBI's , BAU team was called in on the 7th of June, No way would they be called in for a boy who had wondered away from school.

BeanE
09-10-2010, 10:20 AM
Quick and dirty. Needs more, but it's a start.

Fri June 4 - Kyron goes missing


Sat June 5 - Kaine and Terri questioned by LE


Sun June 6 - Kaine questioned by LE
- (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


Mon June 7
- Terri takes Poly #1
- FBI arrives on scene
- Kaine questioned by LE
- (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


Tue June 8
- Kaine questioned by LE
- Kaine and Desiree take Poly
- Ben Keefer, principal of Skyline school, slips and says it's a criminal investigation at a presser and Gates cuts him off
View Single Post - Case Review #1: Thread #4: LE Press Conferences & Release: June 8 2010

- (any indication Terri questioned this day?)


Wed June 9
- This is my best guess at when Terri's Poly #2 was, based on complex math plus an extremely complicated SWAG. Take it with a grain of salt.
- LE calls in extra searchers from around the state


Thu June 10
- Reporter chases Kaine to the car at the gym asking questions until Kaine gets in car and shuts door. Kaine won't speak to reporter. (Is this the date this happened or the date video published? Was this actually Wed June 9?) http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/search-continues-kyron-horman-10885840
- extra searchers from around the state arrive on scene
- helicopters and horses join search
- 90% of student interviews complete


Fri June 11
- parents speak first time
- Kyron's clothing shown, apparently at the family's request (per Shults)
- "There's just no indication on anything we've got at this point that it was an abduction," Multnomah County Sheriff Dan Staton told CNN. "The child is still characterized as a missing child." Only time LE has said no evidence of an abduction.
- LE begins searching Sauvie Island


Sat June 12
- LE asks for video from the rural roads.
- LE says to hold off on more donations of food/drinks for the searchers.
- LE complains in presser about rumors on the net.



Sun June 13 - search ends/criminal investigation

SurfieTX
09-10-2010, 10:45 AM
Bean, here on the case calender it says this: Kyron Horman's stepmother -- who became the most prominent figure in the investigation into the boy's disappearance Friday -- is scheduled to take a second polygraph test Saturday (the 19th), according to a friend.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1910&day=2010-6-18&c=10

BeanE
09-10-2010, 10:59 AM
Bean, here on the case calender it says this: Kyron Horman's stepmother -- who became the most prominent figure in the investigation into the boy's disappearance Friday -- is scheduled to take a second polygraph test Saturday (the 19th), according to a friend.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...lton_horm.html

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1910&day=2010-6-18&c=10

I know, but I think that may actually be the third poly. Sometimes the third is referred to as the second since she didn't actually take the second, but walked out before getting hooked to the machine.

But... there are other indications that the third was on the 26th, so the second could have been the 19th.

I told ya it was complicated lol. I've been driving myself crazy with it.

SurfieTX
09-10-2010, 11:17 AM
Bean, do you remember the article where Kaine stated that LE had searched the house and the computer(s)? I remember it sorta because it was kind of confusing the way it was written as LE apparently did not search DY's and TY's house (or something to that effect).

BeanE
09-10-2010, 11:52 AM
Bean, do you remember the article where Kaine stated that LE had searched the house and the computer(s)? I remember it sorta because it was kind of confusing the way it was written as LE apparently did not search DY's and TY's house (or something to that effect).

I remember the video interview where he talks about it and Desiree says they haven't needed to search her house.

I can't remember the interview date though. My next project is to collect all the parent interviews and statements and then after they're all together in a thread (I've got one set up in the reference forum), I'm going to put them in a list that's ordered by date and has notes on what's in each video/article. It's just gotten too hard to find them, especially the video interviews.

And since I'm already off topic here :) I'd appreciate anyone coming across a parent interview in an article or video to throw the link into the parent/stepparent interview thread in the reference forum. Even just the URL would be helpful.

SurfieTX
09-10-2010, 11:56 AM
Thank you for your hard work, Bean. I've really enjoyed the case review(s). I'll do my best to help you out with the interviews.

passionflower
09-10-2010, 12:09 PM
Since DeDe's X BF Jason Wishert and family are involved in the Mexican orphange,
could this be where they handed KYRON off?
Could this be info DeDe would know?
and why DY and KH have hopes of getting KYRON back soon????
http://www.friendsofpimpollo.org/
Just brain storming.........

Billylee
09-10-2010, 02:20 PM
This article came out on June 9, and Desiree is already referring to Terri's second poly failure.


Terri Horman's failure of her second polygraph test was a turning point, Young said -- and it only got worse.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_mother_recalls_d.html

STEADFAST
09-10-2010, 02:23 PM
This article came out on June 9, and Desiree is already referring to Terri's second poly failure.


Terri Horman's failure of her second polygraph test was a turning point, Young said -- and it only got worse.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/kyron_hormans_mother_recalls_d.html

The article came out July 9, not June 9. (So, after the RO, after Terri's friend spilled the beans about the failed polygraphs.)

BeanE
09-10-2010, 02:28 PM
The article came out July 9, not June 9. (So, after the RO, after Terri's friend spilled the beans about the failed polygraphs.)

I don't recall any of Terri's friends saying that Terri failed any polys. I do recall Jaymie Finster saying Terri was going to take a 2nd poly.

Which friend said Terri failed a poly?

BeanE
09-10-2010, 02:31 PM
I don't ordinarily link to the Examiner, because it's a paid blog, and too frequently has inaccuracies. However, this is an interview with Lt. Mary L. of MCSO, and directly quotes her, so rates a bit higher on the credibility scale with me. :)

Whereas you'll see that most questions got a 'no comment' from Lt. Mary, this one got an answer from her.

Question: What events occurred to label the case a criminal case?

Lt. Lindstrand: It was the natural progression of the case.

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-interview-with-sheriff-s-office-urges-people-to-return-questionnaires

BetteDavisEyes
09-10-2010, 02:31 PM
Since DeDe's X BF Jason Wishert and family are involved in the Mexican orphange, could this be where they handed KYRON off? Could this be info DeDe would know? and why DY and KH have hopes of getting KYRON back soon????
http://www.friendsofpimpollo.org/
Just brain storming.........

I read about JW's child-advocacy activities and this Mexican orphanage when the info about this guy first emerged. I figured that, by the time we were hearing about JW, LE had already investigated these entities and found no connection to Kyron.

I have to say, though, that the name of the Mexican town - Pimpollo - didn't sound quite right to me...if you get my drift ;)

Cajun Girl
09-10-2010, 03:01 PM
According to Jamie in the Oregon Live, TMH was scheduled to take another polygraph on June 19th. (Saturday)

Now, I do not know if this is TMH actual 2cnd poly or 3rd as she walked out of one them and it took the family at least 9 or 10 days to agree to take a poly.

Hope this helps someone, cuz my head is spinning.

Billylee
09-10-2010, 03:03 PM
The article came out July 9, not June 9. (So, after the RO, after Terri's friend spilled the beans about the failed polygraphs.)

Sorry, my bad. I'm not having such a good morning, just one of those days, exploding light bulbs, broken vases, you get the picture. I'll go way now. (tucks tail)

BeanE
09-10-2010, 03:05 PM
Bean, do you remember the article where Kaine stated that LE had searched the house and the computer(s)? I remember it sorta because it was kind of confusing the way it was written as LE apparently did not search DY's and TY's house (or something to that effect).


I remember the video interview where he talks about it and Desiree says they haven't needed to search her house.

I can't remember the interview date though.

Apologies for quoting myself. I found the interview by accident. :)

From KPTV's transcript. Link to video on the same page as link below.

Reporter: Detectives have told us many times that in this case they're leaving no stone unturned. Have they searched your homes, your cars and your property?

Desiree Young: They haven't needed to search our house as of yet. But they're welcome to. Anything that they need to do, we're definitely letting them do.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24037975/detail.html

SurfieTX
09-10-2010, 03:17 PM
http://www.kptv.com/news/24037975/detail.html

Reporter: Kaine, can you talk about your property?

Kaine Horman: Yeah, they've been down to search many times and they're welcome to search many more times. Whatever it takes to find him.

Reporter: Actually in the house, as well?

Kaine Horman: Yes.

~~~~~

I'm doing my afternoon thinkin'. This is from June 25, 2010. Well, well, wait just one minute....this is the day before Kaine moves out. See this part:

~~~~~

Reporter: Also, in an unusual move, they put out this flier to anyone associated with Kyron's school. They put Terri's pictures and pictures of the white truck on it. What was your reaction when that happened? What was Terri's reaction?

Kaine Horman: I can't speak to Terri's reaction, but my reaction to it -- photos of the things that were last seen associated with him that day. Through the process we've gone through, we've been asked the same question dozens of times. In a lot of cases, when you change the frame of reference, you think of new things and new angles that you haven't thought of before. From my perspective, issuing that questionnaire is just another way to get another angle or perspective from people who were at the school that day -- and hopefully, more data points and leads that perhaps they didn't think of the first time through when they were interviewed by the detectives and investigators at the school. I actually view it as a very positive step.

Reporter: Police have said they don't have any suspects yet or persons of interest. Did you feel like that flier being out with your wife's pictures on it painted her as a suspect at all?

Kaine Horman: No. She was one of the last people who saw him that day. It just helped associate things that were seen along with him on that particular day, so no.

~~~~~

BBM - Hmm...That's kind of contradictory.

How long does it take for the FBI to do computer forensics? Does anyone know from previous cases? The FBI was called in immediately and IIRC, the BAU was called in on the 9th.

~~~~~

http://www.kxl.com/EXCLUSIVE-AUDIO--Landscaper-Acted-on-Lead-From-Ter/7620648

This call-in was on July 5, 2010. So, apparently, this landscaper was contacted by LE ?the week prior? to the July 4, 2010, weekend. So, end of June, perhaps before the flier and the presser and the failed sting?

STEADFAST
09-10-2010, 03:30 PM
Sorry, my bad. I'm not having such a good morning, just one of those days, exploding light bulbs, broken vases, you get the picture. I'll go way now. (tucks tail)

I could have made that mistake on a normal morning! Well, it would have sure been interesting if we had found that quote coming out on June 9.
Don't go away!

STEADFAST
09-10-2010, 04:52 PM
I don't recall any of Terri's friends saying that Terri failed any polys. I do recall Jaymie Finster saying Terri was going to take a 2nd poly.

Which friend said Terri failed a poly?

You're right, JF didn't say Terri failed a poly. However, she did say of Terri, "She's exhausted. She said I don't understand why they keep asking me stuff. They want me to take the polygraph again. It doesn't make sense because I didn't do anything." http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

I choose to interpret that as she failed the first one, as I don't see them asking people to pass repeatedly. However, I see that there is wiggle room for someone to interpret that as Terri passing a polygraph and yet being asked to take another one

Before this interview with JF, the public knew nothing of polygraphs being taken by any members of the family. (And the post I was responding to mistakenly had the information that Desiree was talking about Terri failing a polygraph as early as June 9, so the point was that the polygraph information first came from JF not Desiree.)

SurfieTX
09-10-2010, 05:12 PM
Okay...whoo. I want to get this straight.

The flier with TH went out on Friday, June 18, 2010.

The second poly was scheduled for June 19, 2010.

The interview with Kaine and Desiree sans Terri was on June 25, 2010 (which was the day before Kaine moved out).

The sting was on June 26, 2010 and Kaine moved out with baby K.

DeDe started staying with TH on June 28, 2010.

TH hires an attorney on June 30, 2010.

The call-in interview with the ancillary landscaper from ServiceMagic was on July 5, 2010.

The last poly reported failure by Finster was on July 9, 2010.

BeanE
09-10-2010, 05:19 PM
Okay...whoo. I want to get this straight.

The flier with TH went out on Friday, June 18, 2010.

The second poly was scheduled for June 19, 2010.

The interview with Kaine and Desiree sans Terri was on June 25, 2010 (which was the day before Kaine moved out).

The sting was on June 26, 2010 and Kaine moved out with baby K.

DeDe started staying with TH on June 28, 2010.

TH hires an attorney on June 30, 2010.

The call-in interview with the ancillary landscaper from ServiceMagic was on July 5, 2010.

The last poly reported failure by Finster was on July 9, 2010.

The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting. :)

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

SurfieTX
09-10-2010, 06:21 PM
The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting. :)

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

LOL! We were, and then my brain went haywire with the dates. I like to see the facts/dates as they are. MC is a good one to add too, along with when mom and dad moved in. I need to go back and refer to the reference forum and add/glean stuff from there. It is chock full of factual goodness. :)

STEADFAST
09-10-2010, 07:29 PM
The poly on the 19th may have been the third poly.

Finster didn't report any poly failures, only that Terri was taking another one.

You could add M Cook on the 30th starting the sexting. :)

But I thought we were looking at the timeframe prior to June 13?

I think Terri's failed (IMO) polygraph was probably taken before June 13th. What day was it that Gates cried at the PC? IIRC, you have posted that that was the same day that Terri allegedly failed her first polygraph.

Apparently, Finster was under the impression that the polygraph that Terri didn't want to take was her second one. "After taking one polygraph test, Finster said, Horman is taking another one Saturday and 'she's not very happy about it.'" http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Isn't the July 19th poly the one she walked out of?

BeanE
09-10-2010, 07:47 PM
I think Terri's failed (IMO) polygraph was probably taken before June 13th. What day was it that Gates cried at the PC? IIRC, you have posted that that was the same day that Terri allegedly failed her first polygraph.

Apparently, Finster was under the impression that the polygraph that Terri didn't want to take was her second one. "After taking one polygraph test, Finster said, Horman is taking another one Saturday and 'she's not very happy about it.'" http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/friend_says_terry_moulton_horm.html

Isn't the July 19th poly the one she walked out of?

June 7 was her first, the day Gates cried.

See, I thought the 3rd one was June 26th, but then I found some indications that it was actually the 19th, and that the second was earlier. I think some people in the case are calling the 3rd one the 2nd one because she didn't actually take the 2nd one - she walked out.

I just haven't been able to find anything yet to resolve it and confirm the dates. It's making me crazy. I still have a few Kaine/Desiree interviews to listen to again that might help firm it up, but meantime, the best date for the 2nd one I can come up with is around June 9th. I really think it was the latter half of that week, but I have nothing except somewhat vague references from Kaine right now, like I said, nothing solid yet.

I'll post about the whole thing after I listen to the other interviews and see what's there, so I can get feedback on what people think the dates most likely are based on what I've found.

I really shouldn't have mentioned it at all until I was finished, because all I've done is confuse things more lol. But since we're talking about the timeframe of just before the 13th, I thought I bring up that the 2nd poly may have been in there.

Sorry. I really didn't mean to confuse things.

STEADFAST
09-10-2010, 08:05 PM
June 7 was her first, the day Gates cried.

See, I thought the 3rd one was June 26th, but then I found some indications that it was actually the 19th, and that the second was earlier. I think some people in the case are calling the 3rd one the 2nd one because she didn't actually take the 2nd one - she walked out.

I just haven't been able to find anything yet to resolve it and confirm the dates. It's making me crazy. I still have a few Kaine/Desiree interviews to listen to again that might help firm it up, but meantime, the best date for the 2nd one I can come up with is around June 9th. I really think it was the latter half of that week, but I have nothing except somewhat vague references from Kaine right now, like I said, nothing solid yet.

I'll post about the whole thing after I listen to the other interviews and see what's there, so I can get feedback on what people think the dates most likely are based on what I've found.

I really shouldn't have mentioned it at all until I was finished, because all I've done is confuse things more lol. But since we're talking about the timeframe of just before the 13th, I thought I bring up that the 2nd poly may have been in there.

Sorry. I really didn't mean to confuse things.

It's very possible that Terri didn't mention the 2nd poly to Finster, so that may be why Finster's input doesn't correlate -- she thought Terri was about to take a second polygraph on the 19th, when Terri was really taking a third polygraph then. It would definitely make sense that Terri would have been re-polygraphed (for whatever reason ;)) at rather short intervals, instead of waiting a couple of weeks between polys.

BeanE
09-11-2010, 07:52 PM
The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

Billylee
09-11-2010, 08:08 PM
Good job BeanE, you are never confusing, you always keep us straight and thank you for that!

eyes4crime
09-11-2010, 08:11 PM
The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

Thank you so much for getting that straight for us -


:blowkiss:

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2010, 08:32 PM
I think it was based on logic. They had already been in touch with experts to determine how long Kyron could survive if he had walked off in the woods somewhere and had become lost.

After over a week of searching and not finding Kyron in the surrounding area, they had no other alternative, except to believe that someone had taken Kyron away from the school, and was keeping him from his family.

IMO

wondering1
09-11-2010, 09:29 PM
The 1st poly was June 7. (25 minute interview with the Oregonian on audio)

The 2nd poly was 2 or 3 days after the first. (Link below). June 9 or June 10.

The 3rd poly was about 10 days later. (Link below). That would be June 19 or June 20. So what Jaymie Finster is calling the second poly on June 19, is, as I've been suspecting, actually the third poly.

This is one of the audio clips from the interviews of Kaine and Desiree with Willamette Week:

http://media.wweek.com/attach/2010/07/09/polygraph.mp3

Phew! That one took me weeks to pin down. Sorry about the previous confusion.

But... now the second poly definitely falls in the timeframe we're looking at, just prior to June 13th when Kyron's case was declared a criminal investigation. There may have been some influence from her walking out on this 2nd poly to the decision to go with a criminal investigation.

thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

gwenabob
09-11-2010, 09:31 PM
thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

sorrell skye
09-11-2010, 10:09 PM
Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

I seem to remember that, as well, Gwen.

wondering1
09-11-2010, 10:15 PM
Not to speak for BeanE, but I do recall that TH was at a meeting with LE on the Saturday afternoon that Kaine and the baby moved out. She came home from that meeting and the MFH sting happened right after that.

Maybe you are thinking of that meeting?

Thank you! Yes, it must have been the *meeting*. Wonder what that was about...

BeanE
09-11-2010, 11:25 PM
thanks beane. I'd been under the impression that the 3rd poly was on the weekend KH moved out. I'm sure I got that idea from MSM or WS or both. In your *travels* have you found where that (my misconception) came from?

Yes, reporters stating as fact that the 3rd poly was on the day Kaine moved out. And they may have actually picked that up from Kaine. He has an interview in which he talks about both the 3rd poly and moving out in the same interview, and close together, and you do get the impression that he means they were on the same day.

But back when I was in the process of trying to determine where the myth about Kaine saying Terri failed 2 polys came from, I saw the articles in which Finster said Terri was taking taking a 2nd poly on the 19th, then that she didn't know if Terri had. Which made it look like Terri had put it off until the 26th when Kaine left. Except I noticed there was nothing specifying when the 2nd (the real 2nd) one had happened.

Somewhere in there I got the idea that the 3rd poly was being referred to as the 2nd, which really is correct - the 2nd poly wasn't a poly - Terri walked out and didn't take it.

So I just started tracking and trying to find out a definitive date or timeframe for both the 2nd and the 3rd poly. Came across one interview in which Kaine says Terri put off a poly, and figured that one had to be the 3rd.

It was driving me crazy so I put it on hold until this thread came up, and I realized the date of that 2nd poly really was important for reference, so as I've been collecting the interviews for the thread in the reference forum, I've been watching/listening to try to pick up what I could, and happened on to the Willamette Week clip today.

Needles in haystacks. I love 'em. Well... I love the needles. The haystacks - not so much.

craftybatchy
09-11-2010, 11:47 PM
Apologies if this is too o/t but .....

The public is not privy to questions asked during a polygraph session. We can wager an educated, well informed guess but we must acknowledge that we can only assume so far. Nor can we assume that Desiree, Tony, Kaine, and Terri were asked the same questions.

Now, just for arguments sake, lets pretend that LE asked Terri something like .....

Mrs. Horman, do you have reason to believe that your husband has knowledge of Kyrons whereabouts ?

What if she answered No. BUT (big but here, I know, but humor me) what if behind that No there was uncertainty, a nagging doubt in the back of her mind. That could have shown on the poly as an indication of deception. We do not know what question gave indicators of deception.

I guess what I am trying to say is bringing her in for a repeat poly does not automatically mean that she incriminated herself during a previous exam. It is always possible that she was trying to protect someone else and failed miserably.

BeanE
09-15-2010, 12:43 PM
Just came across this. Posting for reference:

"At this point, it hasn't reached the level that we are looking at this as a crime."

LE (Staton), June 11

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/oregon.missing.boy/index.html?eref=rss_crime