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imamaze
10-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Thread #25

All past threads located at the bottom of the page...

If you have any information regarding this abduction, call the Hickory Police Department immediately at (828) 328-5551, (828) 328-5551 or call 911 or *HP.

Zahra Baker timeline and media links only

Please Continue Here...

imamaze
10-26-2010, 09:47 PM
Regarding social networks
Regarding facebook,twitter, and myspace you can link but do not cut and paste. But the goal is to really only link to those that are directly linked to a case.
IOW, we don't want to post to someone's mother, brother, employer, milkman , or postal carrier just because they know the main player. It just gets too invasive and half the time we are not even sure it is the right person. When a post starts out, I found 5 people with this name do you you think any of these are [insert person here]? that is not a good thing.
It will often be up to mod discretion as to who can and cannot be linked, but the general rule of thumb is if they are named in the media specifically as having some role or are being questioned or have information then you are probably safe to link. No screen caps and no cutting and pasting. If a social media is set to private and you get in the back way and post what you see, that is not a good thing!Private means private.
Just imagine if is you if you cannot decide and you shoulod be able to figure out if it is ok.
You are free to discuss what you may come upon,but if it is just a lot of gossip and rumor it won't fly. People open facebook accounts and post whatever they want and to carry that as some sort of inside info is careless. but, sometimes there is really valuable information that may even come into evidence as in the Caylee Anthony case.So, if you know for a fact it is the right person and they are named outright in the msm as someone linked to the case it should be fine. IF IT IS A MINOR DON"T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!
If something was posted as public and then removed you might be able to post it, it is up to the mod of the forum and it depends on who, what, when and where.
The mods are listed at the bottom right of the forum under the index, they can generally help. If not, they will ask admin for guidance and we will all decide what is best.
Generally we try not to invade everyone's privacy and if the linked information has no bearing on anything, then leave it out.
We moderate here. Some people love it and some people hate it. Up to you to stay or go, choice is yours. Complaining about our rules doesn't help. if you have a suggestion or think of a better way, bring it on! We are far from perfect and welcome your input as long as it is civil and basically polite.

Rumors are not allowed! No sleuthing AY his facebook page or the London Dude. If you have questions please PM me or a Mod, we will be happy to help. Lets keep the threads dedicated to Zahra. Thank you.

Ima

nursebeeme
10-26-2010, 09:53 PM
I have finally caught back up... whew!!! thanks for all the recaps Kat and fellow wsers!

thoughts:

Sunday: EB starts to talk to LE

Monday: (very, very early Monday... 0312 to be precise) AB is arrested... LE previously said that they wouldn't arrest him while he was cooperating and/or when the time was right

Monday: searches are underway at three locations concurrent with the arrest and EB is taken from the jail on a "tour" of possible search sites

Monday: LE states that they have promising new leads

Monday: the searches are all around and about places that EB has lived in the past including places that she lived prior to AB and ZB coming to the States

Tuesday: EB leaves jail again to accompany LE on their searches.

Monday AND Tuesday: EB's atty, Dubbs, has cancelled multiple court appearances for her other case that she is the atty for
*******

I am seeing....(MOO) that perhaps Dubbs is working on a deal for EB. I also think that LE got all they could out of AB... and the time was appropriate to put him in the hooscow for his outstanding charges. Look at the timing... Right after EB starts to talk AB is arrested..

Another observation/opinion... from all of AB's interviews he seems to not have really seen much of his daughter. And he always described her to be in bed. I agree with impatientredhead about a possible head injury... and I hear echos of Ethan Stacy... how he suffered with his head injury for days before succumbing to it. I also do not think that he saw his daughter on "Thursday"... I think he saw her around the time the mattress was thrown away....

Just my opinion.
****
brought from last thread... as it had just closed... thanks Ima and all the mods doing one heck of an outstanding job

tlcya
10-26-2010, 09:56 PM
wow, in a really detailed nutshell, by george, she's got it! lol

Kat
10-26-2010, 09:59 PM
I have finally caught back up... whew!!! thanks for all the recaps Kat and fellow wsers!

thoughts:

Sunday: EB starts to talk to LE

Monday: (very, very early Monday... 0312 to be precise) AB is arrested... LE previously said that they wouldn't arrest him while he was cooperating and/or when the time was right

Monday: searches are underway at three locations concurrent with the arrest and EB is taken from the jail on a "tour" of possible search sites

Monday: LE states that they have promising new leads

Monday: the searches are all around and about places that EB has lived in the past including places that she lived prior to AB and ZB coming to the States

Tuesday: EB leaves jail again to accompany LE on their searches.

Monday AND Tuesday: EB's atty, Dubbs, has cancelled multiple court appearances for her other case that she is the atty for
*******

I am seeing....(MOO) that perhaps Dubbs is working on a deal for EB. I also think that LE got all they could out of AB... and the time was appropriate to put him in the hooscow for his outstanding charges. Look at the timing... Right after EB starts to talk AB is arrested..

Another observation/opinion... from all of AB's interviews he seems to not have really seen much of his daughter. And he always described her to be in bed. I agree with impatientredhead about a possible head injury... and I hear echos of Ethan Stacy... how he suffered with his head injury for days before succumbing to it. I also do not think that he saw his daughter on "Thursday"... I think he saw her around the time the mattress was thrown away....

Just my opinion.
****
brought from last thread... as it had just closed... thanks Ima and all the mods doing one heck of an outstanding job

Hi nursie :blowkiss: glad to see you!

IYHO (in your humble opinion)

About AB, are you thinking he was complicit before or after the fact?

Or have you been able to come to a conclusion yet?

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:03 PM
https://www.passports.gov.au/Web/Forms/Passport/Overseas/PC8_notes_sr.pdf

Bringing this over in case we have more questions about the Australian passports later on in this thread.

revampz
10-26-2010, 10:03 PM
hi...I have just got on here today...it is midday here......so I have not caught up...however here is what has been reported here.....

someone says there is still confusion over the mattress being found.......this article says that the dump employees found it and handed it to the police....

sorry if I am repeating what has already been reported....

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8113558/potential-key-evidence-found-in-zahra-case

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:05 PM
That article seems to jibe with local newsites. not sure what that means however with things fading away from newsreports with no explanation.

ETA

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

bevichan
10-26-2010, 10:07 PM
Hello all. Sorry..but I just can't keep up today. Am I correct in that nothing new has been found that could be substantiated? Thanks for answering. :)

sarx
10-26-2010, 10:12 PM
Hello all. Sorry..but I just can't keep up today. Am I correct in that nothing new has been found that could be substantiated? Thanks for answering. :)

Hard to say right now. Another mattress(es) is being tested but no news on the results (too soon to know).

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:12 PM
That article seems to jibe with local newsites. not sure what that means however with things fading away from newsreports with no explanation.

ETA

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

That video is the best I've seen so far on coverage. Thanks! (like that reporter)

nursebeeme
10-26-2010, 10:13 PM
Hi nursie :blowkiss: glad to see you!

IYHO (in your humble opinion)

About AB, are you thinking he was complicit before or after the fact?

Or have you been able to come to a conclusion yet?

Hey kitty ((((kat)))),
just from what we have seen so I think he was complicit before and after the fact. How could he live in that house and not see what was going on before the fact? How could he walk in and out of the door after the fact ((assuming....and I might I add that I do believe she died before she was reported missing)) and not know what was going on???

His media interviews.... Ummmmmmm.... is a word that he used in over and over... the pregnant pauses in his answers... so very telling...

MOO

((aside: AB may think that by doing nothing he is not at fault... but by turning his head...as it seems he may well have done....he is just as guilty to what happened to little Zahra))

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:14 PM
I'm with you Nursie! Thanks for outlining your thoughts :)

If he is guilty of neglect or ignoring her being abused. Think they can prove murder 1 on him? I'm having a hard time sorting that out (if either one is ever charged) just speculating. JMHO.

SailorMoon
10-26-2010, 10:15 PM
Argg, training for new position at job all day today and tomorrow so not able to hardly glance here today. No new news I take it??

Please - let this be the week that precious Zahra is found. Light the way angel.

mama2echo
10-26-2010, 10:17 PM
they had a good recap just now on my local news...but i cant find it online yet

nursebeeme
10-26-2010, 10:17 PM
I'm with you Nursie! Thanks for outlining your thoughts :)

If he is guilty of neglect or ignoring her being abused. Think they can prove murder 1 on him? I'm having a hard time sorting that out (if either one is ever charged) just speculating. JMHO.

do you think he has guilty knowledge of what happened/what was happening to Zahra?

I do

(hit thanks if you think he had guilty knowledge)

ianal, but I think that will get him something when this is all said and done moo

panthera
10-26-2010, 10:18 PM
Hey kitty ((((kat)))),
just from what we have seen so I think he was complicit before and after the fact. How could he live in that house and not see what was going on before the fact? How could he walk in and out of the door after the fact ((assuming....and I might I add that I do believe she died before she was reported missing)) and not know what was going on???

His media interviews.... Ummmmmmm.... is a word that he used in over and over... the pregnant pauses in his answers... so very telling...

MOO

((aside: AB may think that by doing nothing he is not at fault... but by turning his head...as it seems he may well have done....he is just as guilty to what happened to little Zahra))
I couldn't agree more! To me he is complicit by omission or failure to act, or do anything to protect his daughter - assuming EB is the one who actually took her life - starting with uprooting Zahra from her home, and medical care, in Australia for this woman. MOO

panthera
10-26-2010, 10:20 PM
I'm with you Nursie! Thanks for outlining your thoughts :)

If he is guilty of neglect or ignoring her being abused. Think they can prove murder 1 on him? I'm having a hard time sorting that out (if either one is ever charged) just speculating. JMHO.

My thoughts are charge them both and let a jury decide. ;) MOO

(hint to prosecutors: show many pictures of Zahra with the soldier in Australia and how happy she was there) MOO

mama2echo
10-26-2010, 10:22 PM
i found this one...but im still looking for the other one, dont know if this one has been posted yet cause this thread is moving too fast

http://triad.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/631962/crews-recover-mattress-in-zahra-baker-search

kwmred
10-26-2010, 10:25 PM
Hey kitty ((((kat)))),
just from what we have seen so I think he was complicit before and after the fact. How could he live in that house and not see what was going on before the fact? How could he walk in and out of the door after the fact ((assuming....and I might I add that I do believe she died before she was reported missing)) and not know what was going on???

His media interviews.... Ummmmmmm.... is a word that he used in over and over... the pregnant pauses in his answers... so very telling...

MOO

((aside: AB may think that by doing nothing he is not at fault... but by turning his head...as it seems he may well have done....he is just as guilty to what happened to little Zahra))

I agree. AB is/was Zahra's father and as such was primarily responsible for her well-being. I want to say more... but I'm so angry about this and don't want to get banned :truce:

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:26 PM
do you think he has guilty knowledge of what happened/what was happening to Zahra?

I do

(hit thanks if you think he had guilty knowledge)

ianal, but I think that will get him something when this is all said and done moo

Yes IMHO he knew that AB was abusing Zahra. (I believe she was abusing her physically and emotionally and through neglect even though we don't have LE confirming).

I'm not sure if it can be proven in court that he was aware of the level of abuse and anticipated her being murdered. KWIM? (not arguing that he didn't or couldn't---talking about if this goes to trial).

I'm looking for legalities not moral responsibilities. Things to take to trial at this point in time, just from how little we know. Speculating.

He'll face charges but I'm not sure what they will be if he didn't directly cause her death by his own actions or hands. KWIM?

Bah it's too early for this kind of speculation. LOL I'm just jumping the gun. I'm so eager for Zahra to come home and for these two to have their day in court already! Nevermind me. :)

cluciano63
10-26-2010, 10:26 PM
26 threads and no Zahra?
Hard to believe.
I am always shocked when seemingly inept criminals can hold up so long against LE. I know I would collapse like a bad souffle as soon as I was led into one of those little interview chambers.

Peliman
10-26-2010, 10:26 PM
Just checking in from working. Anything new or is the news today they found the mattress at the landfill?

froginTtown
10-26-2010, 10:27 PM
:seeya:
Just bringing this video over, it's the basics of the case... excellent reporting... I highly suggest it... :angel:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Zahra%20Baker%20%20-NC-/?action=view&current=101910NightlineExcellentSynopsisfromOct10-19003.mp4

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:28 PM
sorry froggin , did not see video?

MandyLeigh
10-26-2010, 10:29 PM
Very good honest info and discussion on Levi tonight. :thumb: He had defense Attorney Holly Hughes and Detective/crime writer Stacy Dittrich on.

The fact that they are searching for mattress shows LE thinks she died in her room. Mattress is extremely important as could show how long Z laid there after death.

EB pointing fingers at AB. LE needs her to give some kind of evidence to go with her accusations or it's just a story. EB can't give up the body as that would point to her. So shes is out in a SUV leading them all over heck and back, trying to prove her stories with out hurting herself. Leading them on goose chase.

EB hasn't given anything worth while yet, thinks attorney is going to sit her down and make her understand that she needs to bring something big to the table to save her from the DP.

AB laughing on the 911 tape and claiming she is brooding is seriously disturbing considering the circumstances of her disappearance. Will effect jury in his own court case.

The way Z was treated before her death will also be heard by jury and taken into account.

Lots more but hard to keep up :treadmill: listening to it again...

ETA
Even if EB was the one who killed Z, AB can still be convicted of murder as a party to the crime.. Talked about a woman just executed who didn't kill her husband while the men who did lived. She was a part of it and they did the killing.

LE doing a great job swabbing everything they can get their hands on and keeping things close to the vest so nothing can be questioned in a court of law later on.

Thinks they could have a case against these two right now if they had to do it. The actions of both parents are very telling. Juries are full of parents and people who care a lot about kids especially those who have beat cancer twice and had a leg amputated.

kwmred
10-26-2010, 10:29 PM
I couldn't agree more! To me he is complicit by omission or failure to act, or do anything to protect his daughter - assuming EB is the one who actually took her life - starting with uprooting Zahra from her home, and medical care, in Australia for this woman. MOO


BBM

This happens all too often in these cases. Some single parent is so selfish and thinks with the wrong part of their body. I don't understand it at all. After my divorce, I was soooo paranoid about letting any man get too close to my children. I may have gone overboard, but I sure don't have any regrets!

passionflower
10-26-2010, 10:30 PM
That article seems to jibe with local newsites. not sure what that means however with things fading away from newsreports with no explanation.

ETA

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

going back to this search in morning!
I hope it is guarded area tonight.
and weather is not co-operating......
I am staying up to see if there is any new news on 11 oclock local

panthera
10-26-2010, 10:30 PM
Yes IMHO he knew that AB was abusing Zahra. (I believe she was abusing her physically and emotionally and through neglect even though we don't have LE confirming).

I'm not sure if it can be proven in court that he was aware of the level of abuse and anticipated her being murdered. KWIM? (not arguing that he didn't or couldn't---talking about if this goes to trial).

I'm looking for legalities not moral responsibilities. Things to take to trial at this point in time, just from how little we know. Speculating.

He'll face charges but I'm not sure what they will be if he didn't directly cause her death by his own actions or hands. KWIM?

Bah it's too early for this kind of speculation. LOL I'm just jumping the gun. I'm so eager for Zahra to come home and for these two to have their day in court already! Nevermind me. :)
BBM

You and me both! I don't think it's a leap to speculate about possible charges since it seems a given that one or both of these people are responsible for Zahra's death. After all, it is a homicide investigation. MOO

kwmred
10-26-2010, 10:35 PM
So, what if AB didn't do the actually killing, but knew of it and helped EB cover it up? What would be the charge?

froginTtown
10-26-2010, 10:36 PM
:seeya:
Just bringing this video over, it's the basics of the case... excellent reporting... I highly suggest it... :angel:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Zahra%20Baker%20%20-NC-/?action=view&current=101910NightlineExcellentSynopsisfromOct10-19003.mp4

I'm so sorry guys...:blushing: My linking today just plain sucks... LOL.. I got it right now....:angel:

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:36 PM
tyvm frogin

It took forever to load but good coverage ty again.

panthera
10-26-2010, 10:39 PM
So, what if AB didn't do the actually killing, but knew of it and helped EB cover it up? What would be the charge?

Accomplice? However if that's the scenario I think the same charges should apply to both, but that's just MOO.

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:39 PM
I somehow missed that broadcast of nightline.

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:41 PM
epicfail?!

panthera
10-26-2010, 10:43 PM
My prayers tonight are that LE will find everything they need tomorrow.....:praying:

:seeya:

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:43 PM
??? alo?

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:44 PM
Very good honest info and discussion on Levi tonight. :thumb: He had defense Attorney Holly Hughes and Detective/crime writer Stacy Dittrich on.

The fact that they are searching for mattress shows LE thinks she died in her room. Mattress is extremely important as could show how long Z laid there after death.

EB pointing fingers at AB. LE needs her to give some kind of evidence to go with her accusations or it's just a story. EB can't give up the body as that would point to her. So shes is out in a SUV leading them all over heck and back, trying to prove her stories with out hurting herself. Leading them on goose chase.

EB hasn't given anything worth while yet, thinks attorney is going to sit her down and make her understand that she needs to bring something big to the table to save her from the DP.

AB laughing on the 911 tape and claiming she is brooding is seriously disturbing considering the circumstances of her disappearance. Will effect jury in his own court case.

The way Z was treated before her death will also be heard by jury and taken into account.

Lots more but hard to keep up :treadmill: listening to it again...

ETA
Even if EB was the one who killed Z, AB can still be convicted of murder as a party to the crime.. Talked about a woman just executed who didn't kill her husband while the men who did lived. She was a part of it and they did the killing.LE doing a great job swabbing everything they can get their hands on and keeping things close to the vest so nothing can be questioned in a court of law later on.

Thank you very much Mandy!

bolded respectfully by me. :)

In which state I wonder was that woman executed? And has NC had any cases similar if she wasn't from NC?

Each state does vary in sentencing IMHO.

kwmred: I'm not sure. We'd have to look at penal code. Neither one has been charged as of yet so it would be a fruitless search IMHO because we don't know the charges and can't look up those statutes. JMHO.

elepher50
10-26-2010, 10:45 PM
Looks like LE may have setup some sort of covering at the focus point at the Christie Rd search area?

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

Sorry if this has already been posted as I have been distracted this evening.

impatientredhead
10-26-2010, 10:45 PM
So, what if AB didn't do the actually killing, but knew of it and helped EB cover it up? What would be the charge?

Accessory after the fact.
He is going to have a hell of a time showing it was after the fact.

And anyone that has read my ranting and raving posts when women/biomothers let their new boyfriends (and lord forbid decide to date a sex offender) stand by and let these "men" abuse their children knows I think the bystander parent should be charged with the identical crimes.

If that is the defacto standard for the get away driver of a bank robber that shoots the bank guard. I don't understand why it is a one shred less for a parent who lets some one harm their child and then claims innocence. Innocent my ass.

Makes me mental.

Peliman
10-26-2010, 10:46 PM
Bad weather continues, I'm in south Asheville, NC right now and it's rained torrents at times over the last 5 hours. Looking at nextrad radar another line of storms is expected soon. Hickory is a couple hours away so they're next. Keep an eye on Nextrad Hickory, weather isn't over yet, hopefully by morning this line of storms will have passed.

NextRad link posted but you may need to configure Hickory, NC in the maps. In city/state it's Hickory, NC, then under radar it's summary for the best radar outlook.

http://www.intellicast.com/National/Radar/Summary.aspx

cyberborg
10-26-2010, 10:49 PM
26 threads and no Zahra?
Hard to believe.
I am always shocked when seemingly inept criminals can hold up so long against LE. I know I would collapse like a bad souffle as soon as I was led into one of those little interview chambers.

It depends if it was accidental and they just did not report/panicked or if it was clear abuse/murder. For the latter you are more likely to hold out as long as you can so that the remains deteriorate, for the former you'd fess up once first busted.

As the clock ticks EB looks really bad and AB had his window and it has since closed. Not looking good for either of them IMO.

sarx
10-26-2010, 10:51 PM
So, what if AB didn't do the actually killing, but knew of it and helped EB cover it up? What would be the charge?
There are all kinds of scenarios where both of them can be going for the death penalty. We will learn more in the coming days I am sure of their plans.

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:54 PM
Me too IRH. Burns me up.

Okay possible charges at this point in time, and we don't even know what his role really was...we only know what it looks like at this point in time.

Accessory or accomplice to murder (I don't know NC statute and don't know if they seperate these two)

Accessory after the fact

Can anyone think of others that would be applicable knowing only what we know at this moment?

TIA.

JMHO.

Pebbles1968
10-26-2010, 10:56 PM
Not sure if is the Lord rattling the heavens or the old devil himself but the skies are rocking in NC. Praying tomorrow is the day Zahra finds peace!
Police talking about all the misinformation floating around.. So listen to the Mods.
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/26/zahra-search-continues-ar-484961/
Hope that links right! I was one of those that got the bad message and almost got sucked in.

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:56 PM
??? alo?

'alo to you too and g'day tl.

Whatcha doing over there? :D

tlcya
10-26-2010, 10:57 PM
had a big lull or slowdown of my laptop, not sure which.

Kat
10-26-2010, 10:58 PM
signing off all. Let's hope tomorrow is the day Zahra comes home.

harleysnana
10-26-2010, 10:59 PM
Looks like LE may have setup some sort of covering at the focus point at the Christie Rd search area?

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

Sorry if this has already been posted as I have been distracted this evening.

WOW... IMO it looks like they did find something!

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:00 PM
Me too IRH. Burns me up.

Okay possible charges at this point in time, and we don't even know what his role really was...we only know what it looks like at this point in time.

Accessory or accomplice to murder (I don't know NC statute and don't know if they seperate these two)

Accessory after the fact

Can anyone think of others that would be applicable knowing only what we know at this moment?

TIA.

JMHO.

To be honest, I have no idea what I think on that. I am still struggling with how culpible AB is and what charges I would want to see leveled in those cases.

sarx
10-26-2010, 11:02 PM
The covering may very well be a place for people to stand out of the rain.

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:04 PM
good video and update as of 6:50 tonight from local station,

http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

Peliman
10-26-2010, 11:04 PM
Not sure if is the Lord rattling the heavens or the old devil himself but the skies are rocking in NC. Praying tomorrow is the day Zahra finds peace!
Police talking about all the misinformation floating around.. So listen to the Mods.
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/26/zahra-search-continues-ar-484961/
Hope that links right! I was one of those that got the bad message and almost got sucked in.

I'm glad that Chief Adkins is squelching rumors from today. Of course we'll find out how true it is later but I'll accept his word for now. Remember we'll have the rest of the story later. I'm not big on jumping to conclusions even if I have done so myself before. I carry a pillow in my butt from kicking for jumping conclusions before. ;)

froginTtown
10-26-2010, 11:05 PM
Does anyone have the address that EB lived at that is close to the search area???
I want to make a map from Christy to her old home she lived at before AB was here...
TIA... :)

cyberborg
10-26-2010, 11:07 PM
I'd personally love to be a fly on the wall in both EB's and AB's jail cell.

What news are they able to catch from any TV coverage or inmates?

What news are they getting from their attorneys?

What news are they getting from LE?

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive....

Are they squirming and wondering how to play the next move as this breaks? A little bit of game playing anyone?

froginTtown
10-26-2010, 11:08 PM
oh sorry Tlcox... I not sure if you were asking me something about the video or not... but I pulled it from cranky's album.... thought it might help the newbie's and such...;)

sarx
10-26-2010, 11:09 PM
They have extended the tornado watch until 3 am. If nothing else it is making for some miserable conditions out there for those protecting the search sites.

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:11 PM
DO we know of any previous addresses that coincide with this area?

elepher50
10-26-2010, 11:11 PM
16 days since Zahra was reported missing ... LE must be exhausted. I do hope that they are reaching out to other counties in NC for assistance to give themselves much needed rest periods.

Zahra Clare Baker where are you?

Ah, the name Clare which means 'Clear; bright; famous' - can you please show LE the way as you need to come home now.

Soulmagent
10-26-2010, 11:14 PM
So they go to the landfill and search then AB talks to police and is arrested ,next EB is out of jail touring locations with LE and then LE leave a earch area of the landfill and the landfill people find the mattress that may be Zahra's. Now I am wondering if Zahra's body is in the landfill and the EB /AB team is trying to detour the LE dept making the case more confussing as seems to work in Flordia cases.
The only thing that gives me hope is the neighbor lady smelling something.

Peliman
10-26-2010, 11:15 PM
DO we know of any previous addresses that coincide with this area?

Which area? Some things are not MSM at the moment.

anyoldtime48
10-26-2010, 11:16 PM
Skies definitely rockin n' rollin in that part of NC tonight. Locals please duck and cover!

Current radar image from Nat'l Weather Svc.

impatientredhead
10-26-2010, 11:16 PM
Me too IRH. Burns me up.

Okay possible charges at this point in time, and we don't even know what his role really was...we only know what it looks like at this point in time.

Accessory or accomplice to murder (I don't know NC statute and don't know if they seperate these two)

Accessory after the fact

Can anyone think of others that would be applicable knowing only what we know at this moment?

TIA.

JMHO.

I think it is a stretch but if you say that she killed Z in a fit of rage, and he knew for an extended period of time that she abusing his daughter, taking drugs and escalating in violence MAYBE you could go murder one for the wife and negligent homicide for him. But I think it is a big stretch.

Logically though if you child drowns or is run over playing in traffic because you are high, or you are on methadone but leave it out and your child eats and dies we have seen every one of those scenarios successfully prosecuted as negligent homicide.

Leaving your child with a meth user (allegedly) who is escalating in violent outburst would be equally as negligent and predictable in its outcome.

I would like to see them both take a murder one charge personally. Can't tell which one of you delivered the blow, you both say the other did, but both admit to concocting the cover up and disposing the body, you should both be tried. Which ever one didn't deliver the blow you put yourself in this situation with the cover up. So sad, you will be missed by someone I am sure.

Soulmagent
10-26-2010, 11:16 PM
Which area? Some things are not MSM at the moment.

The christie rd area I believe

KikiWanBaniki
10-26-2010, 11:18 PM
DO we know of any previous addresses that coincide with this area?

I know a while back there was a lot of discussion about the 'previous residence' site, but I can't remember exactly where...anyone? TIA

I do remember someone mentioned that it was listed as an 'mhp', and it was discovered to stand for 'mobile home park'.

Sorry, I'd search to find the thread, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it yet!

kwmred
10-26-2010, 11:19 PM
16 days since Zahra was reported missing ... LE must be exhausted. I do hope that they are reaching out to other counties in NC for assistance to give themselves much needed rest periods.

Zahra Clare Baker where are you?

Ah, the name Clare which means 'Clear; bright; famous' - can you please show LE the way as you need to come home now.


I believe it's been reported that both the FBI and the SBI are assisting in the searches/investigation.

adnoid
10-26-2010, 11:19 PM
So, what if AB didn't do the actually killing, but knew of it and helped EB cover it up? What would be the charge?

NC does have the felony murder law, don't know if it would apply here.

Soulmagent
10-26-2010, 11:20 PM
I know a while back there was a lot of discussion about the 'previous residence' site, but I can't remember exactly where...anyone? TIA

I do remember someone mentioned that it was listed as an 'mhp', and it was discovered to stand for 'mobile home park'.

Sorry, I'd search to find the thread, but I haven't figured out a good way to do it yet!

The other location of the search yesterday near the school was said to be one mile of her old address . No details.

MandyLeigh
10-26-2010, 11:22 PM
I hope by some miracle the winds and rain manages to uncover Z from wherever she is so someone can see her. I want her to be found before any deals can be made. Before either can rat out the other. I don't want the body of this child to be a pawn in their little games against each other.

I agree LE must be exhausted and I don't want them to have to deal with these two anymore either. Time to move them along to the prosecutor and bury Z respectfully.

froginTtown
10-26-2010, 11:22 PM
Does this map help... I think Sawmills is the closest...
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=christie+rd+caldwell+county+hudson+nc&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Christie+Rd,+Hudson,+Caldwell,+North+Carolin a+28638&gl=us&ei=vpnHTIrqEcP_lge1uKiLAg&ved=0CBMQ8gEwAA&ll=35.7805,-81.319427&spn=0.19998,0.66124&t=h&z=11

KikiWanBaniki
10-26-2010, 11:22 PM
the former Knollwood MHP was right next to yesterdays search site. Thats why I ask about today's.

Sorry for my other post, then. I'm having a hard time keeping up here and trying to conduct the rest of my life at the same time!

anyoldtime48
10-26-2010, 11:24 PM
DO we know of any previous addresses that coincide with this area?

I failed to write it down from many threads ago, but it was just a bit west of the intersection of Burns Rd and Dudley Shoals Rd.

Maybe 4800ish Burns Rd? (Granite Falls). Google maps didn't hit the right spot in the road for that number, so you might have to scroll a little east or west to hit it.

Virgogalsue
10-26-2010, 11:25 PM
I'd personally love to be a fly on the wall in both EB's and AB's jail cell.

What news are they able to catch from any TV coverage or inmates?

What news are they getting from their attorneys?

What news are they getting from LE?

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive....

Are they squirming and wondering how to play the next move as this breaks? A little bit of game playing anyone?

My bet is that LE is playing one against the other and that fellow inmates, IF they have any contact, would be more than antagonistic.
I seriously doubt either is getting access to TV or any media right now!

Although, that said...the media has reported that BOTH have cooperated with police...so LE COULD use those headlines as leverage.

Thoughts?

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:27 PM
not the dudley shoals search but today's on Christy, sorry I was not clear.

Peliman
10-26-2010, 11:28 PM
the former Knollwood MHP was right next to yesterdays search site. Thats why I ask about today's.

I suppose the best answer I can give is EB seemed to live in and around the general location for many years. I don't mean exactly the Christy Rd. location but in and around, she should know the area. JMO

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:31 PM
TY. I am going to edit myh posts about that MHP as I cannot find it mentioned in MSM, which means it came from here and was speculation.

tehcloser
10-26-2010, 11:36 PM
hang on............

Mandy113
10-26-2010, 11:37 PM
I just listened to the Levi Page show. One thing his guests hit on was that LE had found evidence of human remains (or decomp) in AB & EB's vehicles. I'm assuming that's why the case was determined to be a homicide so early on. I wasn't clear on that point before.

What disturbed me the most was all the talk about EB cutting a deal for herself now under her lawyer's guidance. I hate the idea that she can bargain any kind of lesser sentence for herself. I feel the same about AB. I know we all want Zahra found. But why should these people be allowed any mercy whatsoever? They showed none towards this sweet, innocent child.

I'm truly sick over this case.

Laddsy
10-26-2010, 11:40 PM
Have there been any previous cases where the dogs have got it wrong?

cyberborg
10-26-2010, 11:40 PM
My bet is that LE is playing one against the other and that fellow inmates, IF they have any contact, would be more than antagonistic.
I seriously doubt either is getting access to TV or any media right now!

Although, that said...the media has reported that BOTH have cooperated with police...so LE COULD use those headlines as leverage.

Thoughts?

The challenge is that LE can control the info during interview periods, as to what may have just broken but I'd assume that Defense attorney's would disclose/update what they knew or saw in between times ... depending on how they are operating.

If EB is taking LE on a wild goose chase but seems to be cooperating then LE might be going along with that to see if it pans out.

The good/bad of Defense attorney's being in play is that you can basically shut up and limit cooperation to a perception of or none at all ... depending on how it is going.

If EB thinks she is implicating AB then you might get some info but if EB feels threatened then she will shut up.

A dangerous dance to wriggle off the hook without self-implicating or making things worse -- so you'd be better keeping quiet and forcing LE to discover.

Peliman
10-26-2010, 11:41 PM
hang on............

My nails are scratching teh wall..... hi Teh. :rose:

is your hubby watchin? gasp! nevermind. ;)

sarx
10-26-2010, 11:41 PM
I just listened to the Levi Page show. One thing his guests hit on was that LE had found evidence of human remains (or decomp) in AB & EB's vehicles. I'm assuming that's why the case was determined to be a homicide so early on. I wasn't clear on that point before.

What disturbed me the most was all the talk about EB cutting a deal for herself now under her lawyer's guidance. I hate the idea that she can bargain any kind of lesser sentence for herself. I feel the same about AB. I know we all want Zahra found. But why should these people be allowed any mercy whatsoever? They showed none towards this sweet, innocent child.

I'm truly sick over this case.

The deal that likely will be cut is to take the death penalty off the table. IMO With the evidence they have and the case they are building I am very hopeful that they will be enjoying a cell for the rest of their lives.

Kamille
10-26-2010, 11:41 PM
EB was booked on a charge in 2007 and her address was listed as 4910 Burns Rd. It is a mobile home, one of two that are kind of in the middle of nowhere. They interviewed the neighbor in the other one on of the videos that were posted but sorry I don't have the link.

MOO

sarx
10-26-2010, 11:44 PM
Have there been any previous cases where the dogs have got it wrong?

Sure, but they aren't going to just take the dogs word for it, there will be testing done to confirm (likely already done and results are known to them).
ETA-They are and have been likely using more than one dog as well. This helps to confirm/corroborate what another K9 has found or cleared. Using multiple dogs gives you a checks and balances kind of system.

Dogs have been invaluable in this case, I have a strong feeling that a lot of the evidence they have located is courtesy of our 4 legged searcher.

Virgogalsue
10-26-2010, 11:44 PM
hang on............

What are you on to???

Mandy113
10-26-2010, 11:46 PM
The deal that likely will be cut is to take the death penalty off the table. IMO With the evidence they have and the case they are building I am very hopeful that they will be enjoying a cell for the rest of their lives.


I agree with you. I do understand why LE operates this way. This is the first time it's really upset me though. And I do understand many of the arguments for & against the DP.

I just can't stand the idea whoever harmed Zahra will receive any concessions.:furious:

tehcloser
10-26-2010, 11:46 PM
I had all of EB's past address that Agatha gave us the other day on a map which I posted........now the stoopid link will not work!!!!!!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhh

froginTtown
10-26-2010, 11:47 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Christy+Rd&daddr=Dudley+Shoals+Rd&hl=en&geocode=Fa4IIwIdGTol-w%3BFfA6IwIdBF4m-w&gl=us&mra=dme&mrcr=0&mrsp=1&sz=17&sll=35.863778,-81.372771&sspn=0.003121,0.010332&ie=UTF8&ll=35.859353,-81.410065&spn=0.024973,0.082655&t=h&z=14 This is the route between the search yesterday and the search today... (I hope)

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:47 PM
kamille do you know, is 4800 block, or whatever it is called in the sticks, Burns road located close to Dudley shoals road? betting it is, okay so that is where I got knollwood mhp, from speculation here about where the mobile home was or was not.



TAKE NOTE NEWBIES. when you flub up, and you will, sooner or later, simply be proactive and fix the problem, admit your error and no big.

It is acceptable to make msitakes.

It is inflexible to not be willing to own them.

Sherbie
10-26-2010, 11:47 PM
So, what if AB didn't do the actually killing, but knew of it and helped EB cover it up? What would be the charge?

I think it would depend on so many factors, first and foremost among them what did AB know/do/not do, and when did he know/do/not do. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm assuming EB killed Zahra (realizing that hasn't in any way been proven as of yet, of course):

IMO, if EB killed Zahra with no participation or knowledge on AB's part, but he helped her cover it up, he may be looking at accessory after the crime, obstruction of justice and a host of child endangerment/neglect charges.

If AB was present when Zahra died or knew, for example, she was being starved or poisoned over a period of time, I think it's possible he could be charged at the highest level even if he didn't participate (sort of like a pair of bank robbers...they both get charged for murder even if only one of them fires a deadly shot at the bank teller).

If AB had nothing at all to do with Zahra's death and no knowledge of her disappearance :innocent:, I think child endangerment/neglect charges are the best that could be charged.

For all those scenarios, there will be subsets of questions to be answered as well. Was the cause of death a slow, progressive one such as medical neglect, starvation, poisoning over a period of time; was it a violent act (if so, was it premeditated or a sudden event)? Was her death an accident that was covered up? There are too many variables to even take a stab at what charges will apply.

It is all going to come down to what kind of evidence they have to prove cause/manner of death, intent (premeditated?), and how much of the evidence can be tied to either or both of EB or AB.

All JMO, not an attorney.

Peliman
10-26-2010, 11:48 PM
Have there been any previous cases where the dogs have got it wrong?

If so, probably human contribution got it more wrong, dogs are an indicator, it's up to humans to interpret what the dogs may find. IMO

sarx
10-26-2010, 11:49 PM
I had all of EB's past address that Agatha gave us the other day on a map which I posted........now the stoopid link will not work!!!!!!!! arghhhhhhhhhhhhh

LOL, I feel your pain. I have never seen soooo many links and pages disappear before. I have started screenshotting EVERYTHING so I know I have it. It's a pain, but at least it keeps me somewhat sane!

tehcloser
10-26-2010, 11:52 PM
These are EB's past addresses, let me find Agatha's link now.


: 3330 Cedar Valley Rd. Granite Falls, NC>
161 Shoal RD. Lincolnton NC.
2680 Wildlife Rd. Vale, NC
21 21st Ave NW, Hickory, NC 28601
4910 Burns Rd. Granite Falls NC.
2490 Helton Rd. Granite Falls NC.
4010 Phillip Lane Hudson NC
Hilltop Rd. Lincolnton NC.
114 Camelot Drive, Granite Falls, NC.
303 Dixon Dairy Rd. Kings Mountain NC.
832 First ST. Kings Mountain NC.
233 32ND ST PL SW Hickory NC
3330 Ester Lane Hudson NC.

Originally Posted by agathawannabe
Okay, here we go. Profile your hearts out.

EB Criminal Charges & Convictions 1992-2010

There may be a few charges out there I didn't find (dang! all those aliases).. but this should be most of them.

Part 1
http://www.wikiupload.com/G5LMklkF

Part 2
http://www.wikiupload.com/EHEzcJ6V

Kamille
10-26-2010, 11:53 PM
kamille do you know, is 4800 block, or whatever it is called in the sticks, Burns road located close to Dudley shoals road? betting it is, okay so that is where I got knollwood mhp, from speculation here about where the mobile home was or was not.



TAKE NOTE NEWBIES. when you flub up, and you will, sooner or later, simply be proactive and fix the problem, admit your error and no big.

It is acceptable to make msitakes.

It is inflexible to not be willing to own them.

If you look at the google map you will see a marking for 4920 Burns Rd just west of the Ebenezer Methodist Church. It's the mobile home next to it to the west. The woman who was interviewed also said that they did not bring EB right there to the home.

MOO

madelyn
10-26-2010, 11:54 PM
The deal that likely will be cut is to take the death penalty off the table. IMO With the evidence they have and the case they are building I am very hopeful that they will be enjoying a cell for the rest of their lives.
Me too Sarx, but I'd love to see the death penalty on the table, or else we could see a perpetrator of Z's murder walk in a dozen years or so, you know, for *humanitarian* reasons, medical stuff, old age, a *mercy-release*, even (ironically) cancer. Mr. Hinkley and Arthur Bremer are walking the streets at this very moment! Neither a murderer, sure, but one shot a sitting Prez, and the other paralyzed someone for life. Both of them out, likely sipping champagne and laughing about their exploits.
I'm praying that any and all perps in this case get the chair, chamber, needle, or the squad. (No I don't mean the Mod Squad, tho watching reruns of that show can induce suicidal thoughts).
Hasta la sayonara for now my friend.
-Mad

quiqui
10-26-2010, 11:54 PM
Thank you very much Mandy!

bolded respectfully by me. :)

In which state I wonder was that woman executed? And has NC had any cases similar if she wasn't from NC?

Each state does vary in sentencing IMHO.

kwmred: I'm not sure. We'd have to look at penal code. Neither one has been charged as of yet so it would be a fruitless search IMHO because we don't know the charges and can't look up those statutes. JMHO.

Teresa Lewis was executed in Virginia.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/23/AR2010092306866.html

I also wanted to thank everyone for all of the hard work you've put into this case. I've been reading since the beginning and am ever so impressed with my fellow websleuthers. I hope Zahra is home soon.

Virgogalsue
10-26-2010, 11:55 PM
I am still feeling like the premise that SM tried to 'frame' AB is the right one.

I can't think of ANY other reason for the randsom note stating " "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control who is in control now.....", other than her trying to make it sound like it came from a disgruntled employee.
I think that she also planted the passports, toothbrushes etc...in the car.

Perhaps, lighting the fires (but not setting fire on the Tahoe) was meant to attract attention to the ransom note? Perhaps she was hoping that Zahra would be discovered missing and she hoped that the police would immediately zero in on AB and arrest him?

She was clearly unhappy with the 'arrangement' and had the new 'London Man' on her horizon.

A Sociopath is only motivated by how s/he can keep moving onward and upward.
Once they have 'exhausted' the benefits offered, they will do whatever it takes to 'move forward'.

Thoughts?

kwmred
10-26-2010, 11:57 PM
I think it would depend on so many factors, first and foremost among them what did AB know/do/not do, and when did he know/do/not do. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm assuming EB killed Zahra (realizing that hasn't in any way been proven as of yet, of course):

IMO, if EB killed Zahra with no participation or knowledge on AB's part, but he helped her cover it up, he may be looking at accessory after the crime, obstruction of justice and a host of child endangerment/neglect charges.

If AB was present when Zahra died or knew, for example, she was being starved or poisoned over a period of time, I think it's possible he could be charged at the highest level even if he didn't participate (sort of like a pair of bank robbers...they both get charged for murder even if only one of them fires a deadly shot at the bank teller).

If AB had nothing at all to do with Zahra's death and no knowledge of her disappearance :innocent:, I think child endangerment/neglect charges are the best that could be charged.

For all those scenarios, there will be subsets of questions to be answered as well. Was the cause of death a slow, progressive one such as medical neglect, starvation, poisoning over a period of time; was it a violent act (if so, was it premeditated or a sudden event)? Was her death an accident that was covered up? There are too many variables to even take a stab at what charges will apply.

It is all going to come down to what kind of evidence they have to prove cause/manner of death, intent (premeditated?), and how much of the evidence can be tied to either or both of EB or AB.

All JMO, not an attorney.


Thanks. I was bringing this up b/c another poster said they wanted to discuss the legalities and not the moral issues.

Trying to keep myself awake tonight while awaiting the birth of my 5th grandson :dance:

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:57 PM
smootch to kaimlle and hugs to teh

Virgogalsue
10-26-2010, 11:59 PM
I also WISH we knew where Nannie was! I'd love to send her a kind message!!!! <3

tlcya
10-26-2010, 11:59 PM
aw congrats kwmred.

kwmred
10-27-2010, 12:01 AM
I am still feeling like the premise that SM tried to 'frame' AB is the right one.

I can't think of ANY other reason for the randsom note stating " "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control who is in control now.....", other than her trying to make it sound like it came from a disgruntled employee.
I think that she also planted the passports, toothbrushes etc...in the car.

Perhaps, lighting the fires (but not setting fire on the Tahoe) was meant to attract attention to the ransom note? Perhaps she was hoping that Zahra would be discovered missing and she hoped that the police would immediately zero in on AB and arrest him?

She was clearly unhappy with the 'arrangement' and had the new 'London Man' on her horizon.

A Sociopath is only motivated by how s/he can keep moving onward and upward.
Once they have 'exhausted' the benefits offered, they will do whatever it takes to 'move forward'.

Thoughts?


All seems very plausible to me. I have seen where many have posted they believe AB was being controlled by EB. But, I'm not sure I buy that at all. I remember reading in one or more articles that they were evicted from one of their residences due to their constant fighting. So, there was trouble in paradise.

Mandy113
10-27-2010, 12:01 AM
I am still feeling like the premise that SM tried to 'frame' AB is the right one.

I can't think of ANY other reason for the randsom note stating " "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control who is in control now.....", other than her trying to make it sound like it came from a disgruntled employee.
I think that she also planted the passports, toothbrushes etc...in the car.

Perhaps, lighting the fires (but not setting fire on the Tahoe) was meant to attract attention to the ransom note? Perhaps she was hoping that Zahra would be discovered missing and she hoped that the police would immediately zero in on AB and arrest him?

She was clearly unhappy with the 'arrangement' and had the new 'London Man' on her horizon.

A Sociopath is only motivated by how s/he can keep moving onward and upward.
Once they have 'exhausted' the benefits offered, they will do whatever it takes to 'move forward'.

Thoughts?

Based on what we know, I think you've offered a very good theory. What responsibility for Zahra's death do you see AB having in this scenario?

On the Levi Page show, both guests pushed the idea that Zahra was locked away in her room & basically starved to death because neither AB or EB were concerned enough to be bothered to care for her. It's a horrible thought.

Sherbie
10-27-2010, 12:03 AM
Thanks. I was bringing this up b/c another poster said they wanted to discuss the legalities and not the moral issues.

Trying to keep myself awake tonight while awaiting the birth of my 5th grandson :dance:

Oh, what a wonderful and blessed reason to lose some sleep! Congratulations to you, kwm! :woohoo:

tlcya
10-27-2010, 12:04 AM
Based on what we know, I think you've offered a very good theory. What responsibility for Zahra's death do you see AB having in this scenario?

On the Levi Page show, both guests pushed the idea that Zahra was locked away in her room & basically starved to death because neither AB or EB were concerned enough to be bothered to care for her. It's a horrible thought.

yikes, don't get all NG on us Levi, we love you for your thoughs, not sensationalizing. Please, stay true to your sleuthdom ;)

ETA but seriously, how did Levi respond to that?

Mandy113
10-27-2010, 12:09 AM
yikes, don't get all NG on us Levi, we love you for your thoughs, not sensationalizing. Please, stay true to your sleuthdom ;)

ETA but seriously, how did Levi respond to that?

First time I ever listened to the show. I didn't know if that theory had been discussed much here. I'm afraid the truth may be even worse.

I can't say Levi came out in agreement with their opinions but he didn't say anything dismissing it either.

(I don't watch NG or JVM either. Most of what I know comes from WS & the links provided)

tlcya
10-27-2010, 12:23 AM
tyvm mandy.

froginTtown
10-27-2010, 12:24 AM
speaking of flubs... I went back and corrected my map... I had the wrong place for yesterdays search... All better now... Sooooo.. I've decided that I'm all done linking today/tonight ... LOL.. I have my 8 month G-baby tonight which of course takes presidence...
Thanks for your patience with me tonight... I'm sure I'll be a better help tomarrow... ;)
May peace and warmth be with Zahra...

tlcya
10-27-2010, 12:27 AM
speaking of flubs... I went back and corrected my map... I had the wrong place for yesterdays search... All better now... Sooooo.. I've decided that I'm all done linking today/tonight ... LOL.. I have my 8 month G-baby tonight which of course takes presidence...
Thanks for your patience with me tonight... I'm sure I'll be a better help tomarrow... ;)
May peace and warmth be with Zahra...

frogin, you should be off playing with the little munchkin! I miss that baby smell *wistful*

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 12:29 AM
I think it's possible that they did leave her in that room to die, and the mattress search supports the idea.....BB already has said Zahra could only come out to eat for 5 minutes, then had to return to her room, I think it's possible that this 'option' was taken away from Zahra and it got to the point that she was no longer let out, and she grew weaker and they let her die.

Awful!! I still wish I could go back in time and save her, to think DSS had a chance and didn't just blows my mind.

Also, yes, I want LE to get as much info out of EB as they can etc, but I don't want to see her cut any deals, so far there's zero evidence that she has told one single piece of truth to LE, and I for one hope someone else finds Zahra so that neither one of these two can benefit from her discovery.

froginTtown
10-27-2010, 12:30 AM
frogin, you should be off playing with the little munchkin! I miss that baby smell *wistful*

Oh... We've been playin all day and night... I sneak on here during her naps...:angel:

Laddsy
10-27-2010, 12:35 AM
I think it's possible that they did leave her in that room to die, and the mattress search supports the idea.

Does anyone know if there were locks on the doors and windows??? Surely a 10 year old could escape somehow if they were being starved or held against their will. I'm sorry but I just cant see this happening (Unless she was really sick from a relapse or something else).

TrialAddict
10-27-2010, 12:43 AM
Does anyone know if there were locks on the doors and windows??? Surely a 10 year old could escape somehow if they were being starved or held against their will. I'm sorry but I just cant see this happening (Unless she was really sick from a relapse or something else).

Sad as it is many abusers tie the child to the bed. :(

grandmaj
10-27-2010, 12:47 AM
Just FYI a line of storms went through the area tonight and surrounding counties. The scanner is very active if you want to go down and listen.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

According to what I am reading here Catawba County is now under a state of emergency.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/27/line-storms-wallops-county-ar-485999/

Laddsy
10-27-2010, 12:49 AM
Sad as it is many abusers tie the child to the bed. :(

True :(

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 12:50 AM
Does anyone know if there were locks on the doors and windows??? Surely a 10 year old could escape somehow if they were being starved or held against their will. I'm sorry but I just cant see this happening (Unless she was really sick from a relapse or something else).

I guess we'll find out wont we. I'm not saying it's the only thing I think may have happened, but just that it's a possibility. At this stage until we know more we can only speculate, I almost dread finding out the whole truth here. I think it's going to be very disturbing. God, it already is.

kwmred
10-27-2010, 12:50 AM
Oh, what a wonderful and blessed reason to lose some sleep! Congratulations to you, kwm! :woohoo:


Thanks Sherbie! I'm on pins and needles here, and I hate that I can't be there for them. They're in MD and I'm in FL.

Sorry for the O/T, but I just can't help myself!!!!!

kwmred
10-27-2010, 12:53 AM
Sad as it is many abusers tie the child to the bed. :(


OMG... hadn't even thought of that scenario. I'm gonna put that one out of my mind.

I actually dread finding out the details. ETA: (just noticed that Mrs. Norris said the same)

Laddsy
10-27-2010, 12:58 AM
I just did a search on white pages and EB is listed as Elizabeth B. I haven't heard her mentioned under this name before.

Virgogalsue
10-27-2010, 01:01 AM
All seems very plausible to me. I have seen where many have posted they believe AB was being controlled by EB. But, I'm not sure I buy that at all. I remember reading in one or more articles that they were evicted from one of their residences due to their constant fighting. So, there was trouble in paradise.

I'm not suggesting that he was controlled or abused, specifically.
My thought is that he was a 'conservative Aussie' man, who left the bulk of the child rearing to the women in his life. (eg. Mum, perhaps his sister, EB)
I bet EB (literally) fought with EVERY individual she came in contact with!
I bet her visit for 6 months to Australia was no different!
I would bet that she left everyone there full of confusion and not many good feelings...but they were confused...trying to support him, but uncomfortable.

My prediction, when this all comes out is that there will be two personality disorders that collided.

She will be a Sociopath and he will be 'Dependant Personality Disorder'.

http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=526&cn=Personality%20Disorders

sarx
10-27-2010, 01:01 AM
Snipped from
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/26/10/mattress-found-landfill-ar-485567/

He went to the police station after picking up his mother and brother at the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport. (According to this news article)

MandyLeigh
10-27-2010, 01:06 AM
I guess we'll find out wont we. I'm not saying it's the only thing I think may have happened, but just that it's a possibility. At this stage until we know more we can only speculate, I almost dread finding out the whole truth here. I think it's going to be very disturbing. God, it already is.

Mrs. G I agree with it being a possibility too.

IMO This is a loyal child, not an adult being held captive by strangers. So IF she was locked in that room she would have stayed there just waiting for mom or dad to come let her out no matter how hungry or hurt she was. Plus Z was from another country with no other family here but EB's who was alienated. She had just moved, she probably had no idea location wise where she was or how to get in touch with anyone. Mom and Dad is her world. Where would she think to go? She would have stayed just like she did all the other times EB made her stay on her room. Just waiting. :(

agathawannabe
10-27-2010, 01:10 AM
Just curious.. How are you confirming it's her? Matching address or DOB or something else?


I just did a search on white pages and EB is listed as Elizabeth B. I haven't heard her mentioned under this name before.

simlyme
10-27-2010, 01:14 AM
HICKORY NEWS!!!!
LOTS OF NEW INFO:
Sorry if posted already UPdated 27 minutes ago
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/26/10/mattress-found-landfill-ar-485567/

Laddsy
10-27-2010, 01:16 AM
Just curious.. How are you confirming it's her? Matching address or DOB or something else?

The address was 21st ave, hickory NC. I got this address from the search warrant. Is there maybe another 21st ave in Hickory. I am from Aus so have no idea how big the town is

impatientredhead
10-27-2010, 01:18 AM
Starving someone to death is a pretty long process, I don't see that being the scenario

I am thinking something more violent and quick.
I think she was in the house for sometime after her death though.

She lived with TWO adults that were known for their anger issues.

The 911 calls removes for me any doubt that he was just unaware and this was thrust upon him. He was at a minimum tolerant of his child being abused, to me clearly involved in the conspiracy to cover up the her death, and I think we will find out was well aware that she was abused, injured, and allowed her die of her injuries instead of seeking help because he didn't want to be prosecuted.

We see it all the time that biomom comes home to find her child battered more severely than previous beating and do not seek medical care because the previous bruising and injuries are unexplainable in combo with the new more severe ones.

He failed this child in every way possible in my opinion.

KikiWanBaniki
10-27-2010, 01:24 AM
Mrs. G I agree with it being a possibility too.

IMO This is a loyal child, not an adult being held captive by strangers. So IF she was locked in that room she would have stayed there just waiting for mom or dad to come let her out no matter how hungry or hurt she was. Plus Z was from another country with no other family here but EB's who was alienated. She had just moved, she probably had no idea location wise where she was or how to get in touch with anyone. Mom and Dad is her world. Where would she think to go? She would have stayed just like she did all the other times EB made her stay on her room. Just waiting. :(

All VERY true, in my experience. Also, when you're a child and that afraid of someone, the thought of what would happen if that person CAUGHT you trying to escape is way more frightening than staying put. MOO, of course.

kalekona
10-27-2010, 01:25 AM
Starving someone to death is a pretty long process, I don't see that being the scenario

I am thinking something more violent and quick.
I think she was in the house for sometime after her death though.

She lived with TWO adults that were known for their anger issues.

The 911 calls removes for me any doubt that he was just unaware and this was thrust upon him. He was at a minimum tolerant of his child being abused, to me clearly involved in the conspiracy to cover up the her death, and I think we will find out was well aware that she was abused, injured, and allowed her die of her injuries instead of seeking help because he didn't want to be prosecuted.

We see it all the time that biomom comes home to find her child battered more severely than previous beating and do not seek medical care because the previous bruising and injuries are unexplainable in combo with the new more severe ones.

He failed this child in every way possible in my opinion.

So should he be held more accountable than that mother? Because in almost all abuse cases with that scenario the mother ends up getting considerably less time than her BF.

Then what about if the child killed is the woman's and the one pretending it isn't happening is the BF- should he get as much time as she did?

(not being argumentative or anything just seriously interested in the views of the different scenarios)

Laddsy
10-27-2010, 01:27 AM
im thinking punched extremely hard in the stomach so there was no visible bruising followed by internal bleeding leading to death. This saga sickens me. I have so many horrible things going through my head.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 01:29 AM
^ I think there was a bit of a switch here because the father was the bio parent, but that he being the more emotionally dependent person in the relationship, didn't do anything to protect his daughter, confront Elisa, or alert the authorities (in a reasonable manner) after she died.

So Elisa still the main culprit, and should still be punished most severely, and AB was too weak to stand up to her, or do the right thing by his daughter but is still party to a murder.

simlyme
10-27-2010, 01:29 AM
HICKORY NEWS!!!!
LOTS OF NEW INFO:
Sorry if posted already UPdated 27 minutes ago
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/26/10/mattress-found-landfill-ar-485567/
Snipped
Zahraís father, Adam Baker, has been in the Catawba County jail since he turned himself in at the Hickory Police Department at 3:12 a.m. Monday. He went to the police station after picking up his mother and brother at the Charlotte-Douglas International Airport.


Baker was arrested on charges unrelated to the disappearance of his daughter and jailed under a $7,000 bond. They include five counts of worthless checks and failure to appear.

The Australian Consulate in Atlanta was notified of Bakerís arrest at his request.

LCoastMom
10-27-2010, 01:33 AM
Very good honest info and discussion on Levi tonight. :thumb: He had defense Attorney Holly Hughes and Detective/crime writer Stacy Dittrich on.

The fact that they are searching for mattress shows LE thinks she died in her room. Mattress is extremely important as could show how long Z laid there after death.

EB pointing fingers at AB. LE needs her to give some kind of evidence to go with her accusations or it's just a story. EB can't give up the body as that would point to her. So shes is out in a SUV leading them all over heck and back, trying to prove her stories with out hurting herself. Leading them on goose chase.

EB hasn't given anything worth while yet, thinks attorney is going to sit her down and make her understand that she needs to bring something big to the table to save her from the DP.

AB laughing on the 911 tape and claiming she is brooding is seriously disturbing considering the circumstances of her disappearance. Will effect jury in his own court case.

The way Z was treated before her death will also be heard by jury and taken into account.

Lots more but hard to keep up :treadmill: listening to it again...

ETA
Even if EB was the one who killed Z, AB can still be convicted of murder as a party to the crime.. Talked about a woman just executed who didn't kill her husband while the men who did lived. She was a part of it and they did the killing.

LE doing a great job swabbing everything they can get their hands on and keeping things close to the vest so nothing can be questioned in a court of law later on.

Thinks they could have a case against these two right now if they had to do it. The actions of both parents are very telling. Juries are full of parents and people who care a lot about kids especially those who have beat cancer twice and had a leg amputated.

Thank You for doing such an excellent recap!

O/T - I've had my hands full with my sick, almost 4 month old GBaby for the last 4 days, as she has been catnapping in my arms, giving me 10 minute breaks then 50 minutes of walking and rocking.

My heart hurts for Zahra's GMa - knowing what she must have gone through to get her GBaby thru 2 bouts of cancer. With the help of AB or not; I'm guessing she carried the brunt. It's what moms and gmas do - not that dads can't, it seems for many men - it just isn't the same and most lil ones want their mom (or mom figure), when they are sick.

First to have Zahra taken away, half way around the world - then to lose her this way and to get this whole sordid story dumped in her lap - I can't even imagine. I hope she has everything/everyone she needs, to give her support to be able to get thru whatever comes.

The step momster had a quote on her MySpace saying her mom was her hero and although she has passed she still missed her everyday and she hoped to someday be half the woman her mother was. I guess it doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out the EB is still alive - some thanks must belong to her mother (at least at some point in time) so EB has failed, as a human, as a (step) mom and as her mother's daughter.

impatientredhead
10-27-2010, 01:34 AM
So should he be held more accountable than that mother? Because in almost all abuse cases with that scenario the mother ends up getting considerably less time than her BF.

Then what about if the child killed is the woman's and the one pretending it isn't happening is the BF- should he get as much time as she did?

(not being argumentative or anything just seriously interested in the views of the different scenarios)

My personal feeling is that they should be charged equally, just like the get away driver example when a guard is shot. But that is not how the law is applied. I think it is ridiculous when the mother's are not held equally if not more so responsible since it was their job to protect the child and I will be equally frustrated when/if he is given a lesser amount of responsibility.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 01:34 AM
Turned himself in!! So that's news. Does that mean he told his mum he was guilty and she told him to do the right thing and tell the police? Does this guy ever do anything off his own back I wonder?

agathawannabe
10-27-2010, 01:35 AM
The address was 21st ave, hickory NC. I got this address from the search warrant. Is there maybe another 21st ave in Hickory. I am from Aus so have no idea how big the town is

Ah, ok. I suppose she could have used that alias somewhere and it got associated with that address.

I double-checked criminal records and did not find any records for that alias with her DOB. There are, however, other Elizabeth B's in the area with different DOB's. Not sure what the significance is - just thought I'd put this out there.

madelyn
10-27-2010, 01:36 AM
So should he be held more accountable than that mother? Because in almost all abuse cases with that scenario the mother ends up getting considerably less time than her BF.

Then what about if the child killed is the woman's and the one pretending it isn't happening is the BF- should he get as much time as she did?

(not being argumentative or anything just seriously interested in the views of the different scenarios)

As for parity of punishment. In this case, (if they are both significantly contributory in Zahra's death) I'd like to see each one electrocuted, dismembered, then disposed of in the smelliest raw sewage pit that can be found. While that's waaaaay too merciful, at least they'll be gone forever, thus I won't have to pay for their upkeep, and the earth will be a better place the instant their icy hearts stop beating (not that they even have hearts but you get my drift).

Happy thoughts!

simlyme
10-27-2010, 01:38 AM
Turned himself in!! So that's news. Does that mean he told his mum he was guilty and she told him to do the right thing and tell the police? Does this guy ever do anything off his own back I wonder?

I think it was his Mom ,told him to turn himself in, he can probably get a lawyer now,I have a feeling Moms going to stick with him through thick & thin.
I dont think Gma is all that.:banghead:

pudd
10-27-2010, 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by Laddsy View Post
The address was 21st ave, hickory NC. I got this address from the search warrant. Is there maybe another 21st ave in Hickory. I am from Aus so have no idea how big the town is

I remember taking a look at the Google map and being confused because there was a 21st Ave NW, 21st Ave NE etc, and I couldn't figure out where I was looking. Kind of confusing street naming, there!

simlyme
10-27-2010, 01:41 AM
I remember taking a look at the Google map and being confused because there was a 21st Ave NW, 21st Ave SW (?) etc, and I couldn't figure out where I was looking. Kind of confusing street naming, there!

It is 21 21st Ave. NW

gibby207
10-27-2010, 01:41 AM
Looks like LE may have setup some sort of covering at the focus point at the Christie Rd search area?

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Search-for-Zahra-Baker-intensifies-in-Caldwell-County-105806948.html

Sorry if this has already been posted as I have been distracted this evening.

Ohhh... just started on this thread before going to bed and reading from the Believe09 collection. lol

This is very promising to me... I'm crossing fingers that Zahra gets closure and justice. Soon.

agathawannabe
10-27-2010, 01:41 AM
Re http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ill-ar-485567/


Turned himself in!! So that's news. Does that mean he told his mum he was guilty and she told him to do the right thing and tell the police? Does this guy ever do anything off his own back I wonder?

I think perhaps we should make sure this isn't a somewhat exaggerated paraphrase before basing any assumptions off it. I could have sworn I saw other articles that said he "went to the police station to give a statement and was arrested while there". If true, that would be something slightly different, IMO.

Also, I'd think if he actually went to "turn himself in" he would have confessed to involvement in the process, and in turn it seems like he would have been charged with (at least) "obstruction" as EB was.

:twocents:

gibby207
10-27-2010, 01:43 AM
My nails are scratching teh wall..... hi Teh. :rose:

is your hubby watchin? gasp! nevermind. ;)

Am I suddenly reading texts in Kyron's forum? LOL :angel:

gibby207
10-27-2010, 01:45 AM
I also WISH we knew where Nannie was! I'd love to send her a kind message!!!! <3

You and me both! I've been really hurting for her... :(

JoeFromLB
10-27-2010, 01:47 AM
A prayer for Zahra, and then to sleep...

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/18/article-1321513-0B964DA5000005DC-783_233x423.jpg

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 01:47 AM
^ ah yes, good old media reporting....I should know better really shouldn't I?

On the Elisabeth Baker as her name in the phone book issue, I'm thinking it's possible she just used that one for the utilities bill, hey she might have even got lucky there and they made the mistake themselves!

simlyme
10-27-2010, 01:48 AM
Re http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ill-ar-485567/



I think perhaps we should make sure this isn't a somewhat exaggerated paraphrase before basing any assumptions off it. I could have sworn I saw other articles that said he "went to the police station to give a statement and was arrested while there". If true, that would be something slightly different, IMO.

Also, I'd think if he actually went to "turn himself in" he would have confessed to involvement in the process, and in turn it seems like he would have been charged with (at least) "obstruction" as EB was.

:twocents:

He may have turned himself in on the 'OTHER' CHARGES,THE PREVIOUS ONES,AS A MEANS OF PROTECTION? Could he have really stayed anywhere right now without probably a lot of threats? I think mama had a lot to do with that, not saying hes not involved, but I think if he stays out any longer,we may be looking for another body, ? MOO

pudd
10-27-2010, 01:51 AM
He may have turned himself in on the 'OTHER' CHARGES,THE PREVIOUS ONES,AS A MEANS OF PROTECTION? Could he have really stayed anywhere right now without probably a lot of threats? I think mama had a lot to do with that, not saying hes not involved, but I think if he stays out any longer,we may be looking for another body, ? MOO

I think LE charged him with those offences because they are clearly "provable" - kind of like with EB, get them on something fairly straightforward and then hang on to them until the case against them re Zahra is strong enough to prosecute. What do you think?

kalekona
10-27-2010, 01:53 AM
Re http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...ill-ar-485567/



I think perhaps we should make sure this isn't a somewhat exaggerated paraphrase before basing any assumptions off it. I could have sworn I saw other articles that said he "went to the police station to give a statement and was arrested while there". If true, that would be something slightly different, IMO.

Also, I'd think if he actually went to "turn himself in" he would have confessed to involvement in the process, and in turn it seems like he would have been charged with (at least) "obstruction" as EB was.

:twocents:

He was taken in to custody at the police station where he voluntarily came in to give a statement.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/zahra-baker-case-father-arrested-unrelated-charges/story?id=11964372


the key is "voluntarily, came in and gave a statement" not that he "turned himself in"
But I would think it is only logical that he did give them something in that statement.

simlyme
10-27-2010, 01:58 AM
I think LE charged him with those offences because they are clearly "provable" - kind of like with EB, get them on something fairly straightforward and then hang on to them until the case against them re Zahra is strong enough to prosecute. What do you think?

No, I believe hes in their mainly for protection, right now as it is with why hes in jail,he doesnt have to say anything, in the meantime EB has the shovel in hand and is digging herself in deeper, EB wrote the letter,shes got 1 count already in this, so far AB doent, the more she talks or takes LE around for rides,she cooks herself,
After AB picked maMA UP THERE WAS NO WAY they could have converesed about anything in private, so,why not find a good protected place like jail? KWIM?

gibby207
10-27-2010, 02:04 AM
I really, REALLY try to lurk and catch up and not ask for updates but because it's so late (I'm doing it... lol) I was wondering if there was any mention of the dogs in the latest search... did that dog in the pic hit on something? Is that white cover over the vegetation near where the dog was lying??

Ohmygato
10-27-2010, 02:04 AM
I am still feeling like the premise that SM tried to 'frame' AB is the right one.

I can't think of ANY other reason for the randsom note stating " "Mr. Coffey, you like being in control who is in control now.....", other than her trying to make it sound like it came from a disgruntled employee.
I think that she also planted the passports, toothbrushes etc...in the car.

Perhaps, lighting the fires (but not setting fire on the Tahoe) was meant to attract attention to the ransom note? Perhaps she was hoping that Zahra would be discovered missing and she hoped that the police would immediately zero in on AB and arrest him?

She was clearly unhappy with the 'arrangement' and had the new 'London Man' on her horizon.

A Sociopath is only motivated by how s/he can keep moving onward and upward.
Once they have 'exhausted' the benefits offered, they will do whatever it takes to 'move forward'.

Thoughts?

I mentioned in an earlier thought, that it seemed way too convenient to have all the pillows, toothbrushes, passports, and other random items in the truck with the note in it. (Possibly a set-up by EB to frame Ab so she could move on.)

LE hasn't confirmed the media reports either, that the Tahoe was "doused" in gasoline. It was in the original warrant (oh, now where is that link) that there were gas cans and burnt samples taken from the Tahoe.

I have a feeling, and this is my opinion only, that the fact that there were burnt items, along with the gas cans inside of the vehicle, made it smell a lot like it was covered in it. I don't think there was ever the intention to set the truck on fire. It was to showcase all the incriminating evidince.

One last observation while on my theory soapbox: If the original plan was to frame hubby, and break the "news" about a mistaken identity kidnapping when LE was there for the fire, that could also explain why there was bedding in the car. I can just picture..."OMG, there is a ransom note on our Tahoe, OMG... what are ZB's blankets doing out here...OMG Where is she???...." Obviously it didn't happen like that, I am merely speculating about why some of the items were in the Tahoe, that didn't quite make sense.

Also, to everyone being effected by the severe weather tonight, stay safe, and keep your eyes to the sky!

LCoastMom
10-27-2010, 02:06 AM
Starving someone to death is a pretty long process, I don't see that being the scenario

I am thinking something more violent and quick.
I think she was in the house for sometime after her death though.

She lived with TWO adults that were known for their anger issues.

The 911 calls removes for me any doubt that he was just unaware and this was thrust upon him. He was at a minimum tolerant of his child being abused, to me clearly involved in the conspiracy to cover up the her death, and I think we will find out was well aware that she was abused, injured, and allowed her die of her injuries instead of seeking help because he didn't want to be prosecuted.

We see it all the time that biomom comes home to find her child battered more severely than previous beating and do not seek medical care because the previous bruising and injuries are unexplainable in combo with the new more severe ones.

He failed this child in every way possible in my opinion.

Below link is a report of what 3 kids in TX went thru at the hands of their mother and her boyfriend, including being starved for at least 9 months - the three were near death when rescued...

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/DN-starvedkids_31met.ART0.State.Edition1.363ebad.html

He got life w/out parole, for sexual abuse - she got life for the abuse, but can be paroled in 30 yrs.

kwmred
10-27-2010, 02:16 AM
I think it was his Mom ,told him to turn himself in, he can probably get a lawyer now,I have a feeling Moms going to stick with him through thick & thin.
I dont think Gma is all that.:banghead:


What is your basis for thinking anything at all about AB's mother? Not everyone is like CA & GA.

I haven't seen one thing that indicates that KB was anything but a loving grandmother to Zahra. And, I have seen articles from Australia that spoke of what great care she gave to Zahra and that SHE IS THE ONE that was there throughout the all the cancer treatments, etc.

LCoastMom
10-27-2010, 02:18 AM
I think it was his Mom ,told him to turn himself in, he can probably get a lawyer now,I have a feeling Moms going to stick with him through thick & thin.
I dont think Gma is all that.:banghead:

The first statement I heard from Gma was, AB will have to deal with her if anything happened to Zahra. I kinda think she deserves the benefit of the doubt, until shown otherwise.

I read elsewhere that his leaving Oz with Zahra had caused a rift in the family.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 02:28 AM
I have to say I think it's very telling that AB takes himself straight to the police station immediately after seeing his mother for this first time under these circumstances. Very sad for her however! The poor woman raised Zahra, and obviously loved her. Awful when it's a family member to be both the victim's family, and the family of the accused. Must be very hard to negotiate the terrain when that happens.

simlyme
10-27-2010, 02:31 AM
[QUOTE=kwmred;5730970]What is your basis for thinking anything at all about AB's mother?

Because I feel she could have been in contact with Zahra, she could have seen her , like I said earlier, or asked, did AB take Zahra out of the country legally? If not ,why didnt she report it?
Theres contradicting information about the Bio mom, did she want to see her daughter?
Ive found info on FB where AB was friended someone in Aug, Gr.ma was also friends with that person, so , I feel she knew where AB & zahra were, when it comes to a loved Grandchild, to me, where theres a will there's a way.
2 years is a long time & not find your Gr,.child

BritsKate
10-27-2010, 02:47 AM
Mrs. G I agree with it being a possibility too.

IMO This is a loyal child, not an adult being held captive by strangers. So IF she was locked in that room she would have stayed there just waiting for mom or dad to come let her out no matter how hungry or hurt she was. Plus Z was from another country with no other family here but EB's who was alienated. She had just moved, she probably had no idea location wise where she was or how to get in touch with anyone. Mom and Dad is her world. Where would she think to go? She would have stayed just like she did all the other times EB made her stay on her room. Just waiting. :(

Still about 25 pages to catch up on but this caught my eye (BBM). This bit alone just absolutely infuriates me! Being a parent that has moved munchkins thousands of miles to a new country I am just livid so little care or attention was afforded Zahra. When kids are uprooted from everything they are familiar with they need more support, not less. Due to that alone I think AB is fully culpable of whatever happened to Zahra and I blame him every bit as much - if not more so.

Disclaimer: I'm too emotionally invested in this one, really. Too many similarities for me to ignore and when I look at my own gorgeous, vibrant 10 year old daughter (developing a British accent) and her bright smile my heart just breaks that no one seemed to put Zahra before their own needs once her feet hit American soil.

:praying: May today be the day our beloved little sprite is found.

rbrnmw2
10-27-2010, 02:57 AM
*****MOO*****IMO******

EB says she wants to help out but all she is doing is leading investigators on a wild goose chase while a child she most likely murdered is out in the elements, in a foreign country, the longer she is out there the less likely it is that she is found.

If EB really wants to help she needs to cut the carp, quit playing games and tell them where she put Zahra. She knows where she is IMO So she should tell them NOW or they should quit taking her on field trips *****MOO******:furious::furious::furious:


sorry for the rant!!!!!

kwmred
10-27-2010, 03:13 AM
*****MOO*****IMO******

EB says she wants to help out but all she is doing is leading investigators on a wild goose chase while a child she most likely murdered is out in the elements, in a foreign country, the longer she is out there the less likely it is that she is found.

If EB really wants to help she needs to cut the carp, quit playing games and tell them where she put Zahra. She knows where she is IMO So she should tell them NOW or they should quit taking her on field trips *****MOO******:furious::furious::furious:


sorry for the rant!!!!!



Rant away! I know I'm right there with you.

BritsKate
10-27-2010, 03:27 AM
[QUOTE=kwmred;5730970]What is your basis for thinking anything at all about AB's mother?

Because I feel she could have been in contact with Zahra, she could have seen her , like I said earlier, or asked, did AB take Zahra out of the country legally? If not ,why didnt she report it?
Theres contradicting information about the Bio mom, did she want to see her daughter?
Ive found info on FB where AB was friended someone in Aug, Gr.ma was also friends with that person, so , I feel she knew where AB & zahra were, when it comes to a loved Grandchild, to me, where theres a will there's a way.
2 years is a long time & not find your Gr,.child

Honestly, Simly, if AB and EB didn't want Zahra to have contact with relatives they could easily have withheld communication. It's far more difficult continuing contact and all parties involved have to work to achieve it. My kids speak to their paternal grandmother (my parents passed away) once every couple of months via skype - if we can make it more often we do but with the time differences, her schedule and ours it doesn't always happen. To play devil's advocate though we don't know that AB ever informed his family of their phone numbers, addresses, etc.

What I bolded in your comment intrigues me as well though - we may never know unless we are made privy to custodial arrangements or Australia levies charges relating to parental abduction. Depending on court orders regarding custody he may have had to petition the Australian courts for permission to remove Zahra from the country. Another thing we just don't have the answers to yet.

http://www.afp.gov.au/policing/family-law/family-law-kit.aspx#FamilyLawMatters

Pondering Mind
10-27-2010, 03:42 AM
Below link is a report of what 3 kids in TX went thru at the hands of their mother and her boyfriend, including being starved for at least 9 months - the three were near death when rescued...

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/tv/stories/DN-starvedkids_31met.ART0.State.Edition1.363ebad.html

He got life w/out parole, for sexual abuse - she got life for the abuse, but can be paroled in 30 yrs.

What I keep thinking is that a child (as well as an adult) can die within 3 days from dehydration..and that's if they were healthy to start with. :(

tiredblondy
10-27-2010, 03:45 AM
Hi guys,

It's 3:45 am EST here. I couldn't sleep and wanted to check in one more time before trying to sleep again.

I'm about 2 hrs away from Hickory and we have had horrendous weather here tonight. I'm sure Hickory had their share of it too.

I hope any area they were looking at or coming back to was at least covered or secured in some way because we've had tornado warnings and watches in Zahra's area also hard pounding rains and winds.

Which reminds me of the following post Strawberry made at 6:12pm EST today.

[Just before I read this, I was thinking about how much I like the name Claire. Weird. My daughter took Claire for her confirmation name because at the time she had a tremendous phobia of tornadoes and Claire is the patron saint of weather. I wonder if Zahra knew that. quote by Strawberry]

I thought it was quite a coincidence with the weather we're having.

Nite all.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 04:05 AM
Rant away! I know I'm right there with you.

Ditto to that! I think she's lying her butt off and trying to put all the blame on AB, no doubt LE see straight through her, but are hoping she trips up verbally during one of her little jaunts, and no doubt all these excursions are recorded so the tapes can be analysed afterwards.

Perhaps they can add further obstruction charges to her ever growing rap sheet. If she's lying let them play these tapes at the trial when her defense tries to argue mitigating factors.

If she was truly helping she would have taken LE straight to Zahra, or at the very least some vital evidence. She's just digging herself a deeper hole IMO.

lauriej
10-27-2010, 04:40 AM
Ditto to that! I think she's lying her butt off and trying to put all the blame on AB, no doubt LE see straight through her, but are hoping she trips up verbally during one of her little jaunts, and no doubt all these excursions are recorded so the tapes can be analysed afterwards.

Perhaps they can add further obstruction charges to her ever growing rap sheet. If she's lying let them play these tapes at the trial when her defense tries to argue mitigating factors.

If she was truly helping she would have taken LE straight to Zahra, or at the very least some vital evidence. She's just digging herself a deeper hole IMO.

...exactly!

...3 places yesterday? and another 3 places today?

...this isn't a game of hide and seek------she is merely using her get-out-of-jail card to go for a drive.

...reminds me of someone else-------wasting LE's time while cruising around orlando...

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 04:52 AM
^ Doesn't it though....I thought the same thing today....Big mistake, huge.

rbrnmw2
10-27-2010, 05:05 AM
^ Doesn't it though....I thought the same thing today....Big mistake, huge.
*******MOO*******
yes it was a waste a huge waste of le's time and resources and it looks like EB is doing the same as ICA just toying with them because she thinks she is smarter than they are and will never be convicted she has always been given a smack on the wrist and sent on her way *****MHO*******

kcsmom76
10-27-2010, 06:39 AM
Hoping today brings lots of revealing info.

Coldpizza
10-27-2010, 06:52 AM
Published: 05:05 AM, Wed Oct 27, 2010
Missing girl's stepmother cooperating with police

Adam Baker, 33, is facing one count each of assault with a deadly weapon and failure to return rental property, two counts of communicating threats and five counts of writing worthless checks, authorities said.

bbm.....I didn't know that?
But its hard to keep up here

http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2010/10/27/1043208?sac=Home

peg4x4
10-27-2010, 07:16 AM
Why was this child brought to the US? AB wasn't involved in her care in Australia,so why go to the trouble of bringing her here? Nothing computes - nothing in this whole mess makes an iota of sense.. Aaarrg!!
Poor kid.

badhorsie
10-27-2010, 07:18 AM
Have there been any previous cases where the dogs have got it wrong?

Apparently so in the Madeleine Mccann case

mmmagique
10-27-2010, 07:28 AM
How does LE know it is Zahra's mattress? (I missed that part) DNA seems to take forever (if poor Sylar is any indication...)

Lera213
10-27-2010, 07:30 AM
LE found the mattress at the landfill (well the owner of the landfill did) and I noticed something with the few pictures and video I've seen about the searches. All of them of recent didn't look like they were searching too deep past the road. This tells me, that they are looking at a distance as if one were to throw something out of the car window. (and probably a little further in case of animals moved her)

If I am right, this can only mean one thing and that is poor Zahra was put through that chipper. I pray I'm wrong!

KPMcLovin
10-27-2010, 07:30 AM
I wonder if EB led LE to Christie Rd. or was it a tip called in? The news said there were several deer carcasses around and that it smelled like death in the air. Maybe a citizen called in that death smell. Maybe they are taking EB places trying to get her to crack. Maybe she isn't leading them there, but the other way around.
By the way, I must know, what are MOO and KWIM?

KPMcLovin
10-27-2010, 07:32 AM
LE found the mattress at the landfill (well the owner of the landfill did) and I noticed something with the few pictures and video I've seen about the searches. All of them of recent didn't look like they were searching too deep past the road. This tells me, that they are looking at a distance as if one were to throw something out of the car window. (and probably a little further in case of animals moved her)

If I am right, this can only mean one thing and that is poor Zahra was put through that chipper. I pray I'm wrong!

Dogs hitting on both cars makes me wonder if the mattress was put in the Tahoe to dump and Z in the car.

shefner
10-27-2010, 07:32 AM
Charlotte-Observer news from this morning.....

"Possible Evidence Found In Zahra Case"

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/27/1788890/key-evidence-found-in-zahra-case.html

mmmagique
10-27-2010, 07:35 AM
LE found the mattress at the landfill (well the owner of the landfill did) and I noticed something with the few pictures and video I've seen about the searches. All of them of recent didn't look like they were searching too deep past the road. This tells me, that they are looking at a distance as if one were to throw something out of the car window. (and probably a little further in case of animals moved her)

If I am right, this can only mean one thing and that is poor Zahra was put through that chipper. I pray I'm wrong!

But how do they know it's hers? Sorry, I just can't find the answer to this question.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 07:36 AM
Dogs hitting on both cars makes me wonder if the mattress was put in the Tahoe to dump and Z in the car.

Makes sense but, which one drove what I wonder.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 07:37 AM
But how do they know it's hers? Sorry, I just can't find the answer to this question.

I don't know but I would guess it was one of those inexpensive mattresses, and possible had certain markings on it either stains, ink, or something to distinguish it from others. The police seemed like they were pretty sure it was it.

badhorsie
10-27-2010, 07:40 AM
KWIM - know what I mean
MOO- my own opinion

HTH :crazy: (hope this helps)

Lera213
10-27-2010, 07:40 AM
Maybe Zahra is also at the landfill, and AB and EB are sending them on a wild goose chase. I mean if they dumped the mattress at the landfill why not her too? That doesn't make sense to me. I wonder if they checked the dumpsters at the school, church close to the search sites, and maybe check landfill where those dump pickups would go.

Soulmagent
10-27-2010, 07:42 AM
Dogs hitting on both cars makes me wonder if the mattress was put in the Tahoe to dump and Z in the car.

That would make me think one took the mattress and the other took Zahra which could indicate Adam may not have known. She sends hm to drop off the mattress and she does the rest.
It would explain why they knew to look for a mattress and didnt know about the other search areas. Could be why the sewn in the mattress rumor got out Adam may have started it? If he didnt know I could see him thinking that. of course there could be another reason that completely implicates him.
I hope Zahra is found today and all the the theroies are muted.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 07:44 AM
I cannot imagine how her Bio Mom must feel...Her heart must be breaking! Is she here in the USA so if there needs to be a next of Kin notification they would notify her?

NancyA
10-27-2010, 07:51 AM
I have known since the beginning that Zahra was dead but, you know, a person has to hold on to some kind of hope, miracles do happen, so I’ve sort of fantasised that she could have escaped from her intolerable situation and run away to be taken in by a kindly person….Last night, in the aftermath of a day when it all started to come together and the walls started closing in on AB and EB, well, I finally let my fantasy scenario go and cried for Zahra.

Cases like these have always held a dreadful fascination for me, drawn me in, the first was when I was about 12 years old, a little girl called Maria Colwell. It broke my adolescent heart to realize there were children out there whose parents, far from nurturing and protecting them as mine did me, saw fit to batter, torture, starve, neglect and finally kill them. That case obsessed me, I read everything there was to read in the papers about it and prayed and hoped it would never happen again to another child. And yet here I am many years and many child victims later. It never gets any easier to understand the workings of the minds of people who can do these things to those they are charged with loving and caring for. The ‘why’ always eludes me.

Zahra’s story spoke to me in the same way as Maria’s. Here was a little girl who was taken from a happy, stable, secure home surrounded by those who loved her to eventually die after suffering unknown cruelties at the hands of a sadistic monster in the midst of squalor and deprivation. And these children weren’t snatched and taken away from their secure, loving environments by some random, unknown psychopathic child predator, no, they were taken by those who had the legal right to do so, those they had every reason to trust would look out for their happiness and welfare – their parents – who delivered them up to the monsters. We warn our kids about stranger danger from when they are very small, horribly ironic, when so often it’s actually the parents and guardians who commit the worst atrocities on them.

Zahra, like Maria, would never have fought back or spoken out against her abusers or tried to run away. She would have stayed, wondered why she was being punished, rationalised that she must have been really ‘bad’ and deserved it, then hoped if she was ‘good’ enough the punishment would stop. Well, the punishment has stopped now, Zahra, may you rest in peace. I like to imagine you are now laughing and playing with Maria Colwell and all the other children who suffered so much during their short lives.

It’s all over now bar the shouting for EB and AB, just hope they get everything the law can throw at them. For Zahra’s Grandmother, Mother and others who loved her, I hope they eventually find her remains and that they can find a semblance of peace and happiness in the knowledge that Zahra will never suffer pain or fear again.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 08:00 AM
We all I think have some stories of what brought us here to this site. I too and I could write a novel but I won't go there. It is sad, so many children have to suffer.

SherlockHomey
10-27-2010, 08:02 AM
Good morning all. I hope today is the day they find beautiful Zahra. The weather was crazy here last night, trees, power lines, and houses damaged. I hope it didn't damage the search site as well.

Today's weather looks like it won't be cooperating. Windy, humid and thunderstorms turning into severe weather later tonight. Prayers for searchers. I cannot even begin to imagine the emotional turmoil they are going through. I wish everyone peace.

BritsKate
10-27-2010, 08:08 AM
I wont even pretend to know what she must be going though. I did notice she didnt state how long it has been since she has seen Zahra. Just that she never got the chance to know her.

Does anyone know how old Zahra was when her health issues arose?

(BBM) IIRC Zahra was 5 when diagnosed with bone cancer. I've seen both 'a few months later' and 'two years later' for the secondary lung cancer though.

adh74
10-27-2010, 08:17 AM
Geez....I'm about a thread and a half behind! Trying desperately to catch up, but those three little people who call me mama keep distracting me! Can someone give me the highlights from the last couple of days?

Last thing I heard....Adam was arrested, possibly at Charlotte Douglas International Airport (which is about 10 minutes from my house, actually). And I know they took Elisa out of her cell to tour a search site. What has happened since then?

Lera213
10-27-2010, 08:19 AM
LE thinks the mattress was located by the owner of the landfill, was sent to FBI for testing.

Searching like crazy yesterday, but no real news. I lot of speculation and rumor but nothing concrete...it was reported that EB was cooperating.

darlin gal
10-27-2010, 08:19 AM
LE found the mattress at the landfill (well the owner of the landfill did) and I noticed something with the few pictures and video I've seen about the searches. All of them of recent didn't look like they were searching too deep past the road. This tells me, that they are looking at a distance as if one were to throw something out of the car window. (and probably a little further in case of animals moved her)

If I am right, this can only mean one thing and that is poor Zahra was put through that chipper. I pray I'm wrong!


Police more or less ruled out the dog hits on the chipper.

More info and links:
NC NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #10 - Page 23 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Lera213
10-27-2010, 08:22 AM
OH Good!!!!!!!!! On NG the other night they said that it wasn't ruled out.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 08:24 AM
I have a question for the locals, are there a lot of deep woods around there?

SherlockHomey
10-27-2010, 08:40 AM
I have a question for the locals, are there a lot of deep woods around there?

Very much so. The area is very rural. There are also bears and other wildlife roaming around.

Kamille
10-27-2010, 08:48 AM
That would make me think one took the mattress and the other took Zahra which could indicate Adam may not have known. She sends hm to drop off the mattress and she does the rest.
It would explain why they knew to look for a mattress and didnt know about the other search areas. Could be why the sewn in the mattress rumor got out Adam may have started it? If he didnt know I could see him thinking that. of course there could be another reason that completely implicates him.
I hope Zahra is found today and all the the theroies are muted.

It is a possibility that both vehicles were used, one for the mattress and one for Zahra but if that is the case, AB was well aware that Zahra was deceased at the time of that 911 call because it would have happened before Oct 8 when he claims he last saw his daughter awake and out of bed. The mattress was removed in early October, days before the first 911 call according to witnesses.

Interesting thought though that it could have all been done at the same time and that AB went one way with the mattress in the truck and EB went the other with Zahra in the car. This would certainly explain why AB might not know where she is but EB likely does.

MOO

Lera213
10-27-2010, 08:48 AM
Very much so. The area is very rural. There are also bears and other wildlife roaming around.

THank you, know off hand where on christie road they were searching? I have google earth up so I can get familiar with the area

Lera213
10-27-2010, 08:48 AM
Very much so. The area is very rural. There are also bears and other wildlife roaming around.

OH wow, what if that evil woman, placed her out blind folded and left?

SherlockHomey
10-27-2010, 08:51 AM
THank you, know off hand where on christie road they were searching? I have google earth up so I can get familiar with the area

I'm not sure. Sorry.

BritsKate
10-27-2010, 08:56 AM
FYI:

Val actually has a new article up specifically discussing the mattress for those interested.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/27/zahra-baker-case-why-is-the-mattress-important/

eleni777
10-27-2010, 09:04 AM
I'm just looking at WSCOTV, WCNC and WBTV websites...and the weather and damage looks really bad and seems like it isn't going to get better until this afternoon...

Does anyone think they'll be searching for evidence today?

bellyup
10-27-2010, 09:05 AM
Just read what her Mother wrote. Poor woman. My heart goes out to her.


Zahra's bio mother ? Is there a link ?

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:05 AM
I'm just looking at WSCOTV, WCNC and WBTV websites...and the weather and damage looks really bad and seems like it isn't going to get better until this afternoon...

Does anyone think they'll be searching for evidence today?
I know they probably had a cop on the scene last night to keep it secure (poor cop) I'm sure they will do what they can but if it is raining hard they'll wait until the weather clears a little. They could switch and take care of other leads that require desk type work.

bellyup
10-27-2010, 09:10 AM
It is a possibility that both vehicles were used, one for the mattress and one for Zahra but if that is the case, AB was well aware that Zahra was deceased at the time of that 911 call because it would have happened before Oct 8 when he claims he last saw his daughter awake and out of bed. The mattress was removed in early October, days before the first 911 call according to witnesses.
MOO

I'm horrible at digging through all my links, but I would have sworn it was reported that the mattress was tossed 2 days before the 911 call. I found a link yesterday that claimed "days before" it was thrown out. Does anyone have anything more specific. I think it would be important in determining what AB may have known / may not have known.

Also, does anyone else find it odd that AB hasn't made bail yet ? It's like $700 to get out of there I think? I'm really :waitasec: over why he hasn't obtained a lawyer and he's still sitting in jail. Unless he was getting threats , etc. from the public and feels he's safer in there ??? It seems too coincidental that he went in there right when mama got here. Thoughts?

agathawannabe
10-27-2010, 09:11 AM
THank you, know off hand where on christie road they were searching? I have google earth up so I can get familiar with the area

Find Christy Road & Pine Mountain -- then follow Christy Road NE to Ekard Place (that's where they were).

LiveLaughLuv
10-27-2010, 09:12 AM
This is not Zahras mother.. Her mother never cared before.This is an imaginatve American.

With all due respect, Peg...we don't know that.

According to that posting, AB took Zahra away without her permission. We don't know anything about her mother other than she lives in Australia...I wish she would come forward and tell everyone AB took Zahra from her native home to be with this evil, wicked woman she called Step-mother...she overcame two types of cancer, lost her leg and hearing and still had a smile a million miles wide amid the accusations of abuse, at the hands of EB!...JMHO

My only hope is that Zahra will be found alive and well, although all indications disprove that...I can only pray for a positive outcome for Zahra...JMHO


Where is Zahra??

Spool
10-27-2010, 09:14 AM
How does LE know it is Zahra's mattress? (I missed that part) DNA seems to take forever (if poor Sylar is any indication...)

Your question is one that I've been pondering myself. Jeanne C. stated last night that "witnessess" had alerted poice to a missing mattress. Does that mean a tip was called in?
When you think about it, getting rid of any mattress is not simple. You can't just wad it up and throw it in a trash can. You have to "dispose" of it somehow. Even a twin size mattress is sort of cumbersome for one person to lug out of a room and out the door. And you have to have a vehicle to haul it away in and you have to deposit it somewhere. I'm wondering if someone with a truck helped take a a mattress to the landfill. I'm wondering if the mattress was rolled up into a log shape, like a rolled carpet, and tied or secured with cords. I'm wondering how that particular mattress could be distinguished on sight from any other mattress. (I would describe any mattress in my home as a large rectangle with a white padded cover. Can't recall any specific fabric designs or brand names. ) IMO, someone either came forth about helping remove the mattress to the landfill or maybe LE has a photograph from a computer that shows Zahra's sleeping quarters with a distinctive mattress, or they know to look for a certain size or style of mattress that has a suspicious lump in it.
MOO

Patty G
10-27-2010, 09:17 AM
With all due respect, Peg...we don't know that.

According to that posting, AB took Zahra away without her permission. We don't know anything about her mother other than she lives in Australia...I wish she would come forward and tell everyone AB took Zahra from her native home to be with this evil, wicked woman she called Step-mother...she overcame two types of cancer, lost her leg and hearing and still had a smile a million miles wide amid the accusations of abuse, at the hands of EB!...JMHO

My only hope is that Zahra will be found alive and well, although all indications disprove that...I can only pray for a positive outcome for Zahra...JMHO


Where is Zahra??

We don't know if what was written on the other site is true or not and it could be anyone writing the comment.

Spool
10-27-2010, 09:21 AM
FYI:

Val actually has a new article up specifically discussing the mattress for those interested.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/27/zahra-baker-case-why-is-the-mattress-important/

Thanks so much, BK, for this valuable link!

LiveLaughLuv
10-27-2010, 09:22 AM
We don't know if what was written on the other site is true or not and could be anyone writing the comment.

Agreed, but we can't say that Zahra's mom didn't care. We have nothing from her own mouth, KWIM???

Who's to say one way or the other whether Zahra's mom wasn't trying to locate her child. I know it's a stretch but if AB's mother was aware of her son and graddaughter being in the US, why wouldn't she tell Zahra's mom? Was this split not a friendly one?

I think of RC and how he got custody of the children, which was done through manipulation, IMO...could this be the same reason AB took Zahra away from her homeland??? JMHO

Where is Zahra?

kcsmom76
10-27-2010, 09:22 AM
I'm just looking at WSCOTV, WCNC and WBTV websites...and the weather and damage looks really bad and seems like it isn't going to get better until this afternoon...

Does anyone think they'll be searching for evidence today?

I am in the same county as the search and our weather was just rainy and windy. I think they will be back out until another storm comes. I hope it passes us by as did the other one. Praying for the ones that got hit last night.

darnudes
10-27-2010, 09:22 AM
We don't know if what was written on the other site is true or not and it could be anyone writing the comment.

Could be why the comment was removed because I went to find the original and could only see the one that was a copy and paste job.

nobodyspecial
10-27-2010, 09:23 AM
If it had to storm like that, here's hoping something important got kicked up into plain view.

Soulmagent
10-27-2010, 09:23 AM
Your question is one that I've been pondering myself. Jeanne C. stated last night that "witnessess" had alerted poice to a missing mattress. Does that mean a tip was called in?
When you think about it, getting rid of any mattress is not simple. You can't just wad it up and throw it in a trash can. You have to "dispose" of it somehow. Even a twin size mattress is sort of cumbersome for one person to lug out of a room and out the door. And you have to have a vehicle to haul it away in and you have to deposit it somewhere. I'm wondering if someone with a truck helped take a a mattress to the landfill. I'm wondering if the mattress was rolled up into a log shape, like a rolled carpet, and tied or secured with cords. I'm wondering how that particular mattress could be distinguished on sight from any other mattress. (I would describe any mattress in my home as a large rectangle with a white padded cover. Can't recall any specific fabric designs or brand names. ) IMO, someone either came forth about helping remove the mattress to the landfill or maybe LE has a photograph from a computer that shows Zahra's sleeping quarters with a distinctive mattress, or they know to look for a certain size or style of mattress that has a suspicious lump in it.
MOO

I am smaller frame with tiny little muscles and I carry mattresses by myself often due to a strange hobby of buying other people storage units when they dont pay for them. I load them on trucks and into dumpsters alone. Granted some are harder to move then others but if it has to be done one can get it done. A twin mattress is not much of a problem. I have never had one I thought to roll up.
If I can do it she can.

BritsKate
10-27-2010, 09:27 AM
I'm horrible at digging through all my links, but I would have sworn it was reported that the mattress was tossed 2 days before the 911 call. I found a link yesterday that claimed "days before" it was thrown out. Does anyone have anything more specific. I think it would be important in determining what AB may have known / may not have known.

Also, does anyone else find it odd that AB hasn't made bail yet ? It's like $700 to get out of there I think? I'm really :waitasec: over why he hasn't obtained a lawyer and he's still sitting in jail. Unless he was getting threats , etc. from the public and feels he's safer in there ??? It seems too coincidental that he went in there right when mama got here. Thoughts?

BBM

I'm sorry - I know this isn't overly helpful but I can't find it either. Several people here remember reading that and Val @ Hinky states on her blog that CNN reported that. Going to CNN's site though yields nothing more than 'days' prior to reporting her missing. Another case of a reworded article maybe?

Also, is it possible that the Australian Consulate is helping to secure an attorney and that process may take longer? I think perhaps having to face his mother and answer her questions may well have had an impact though. JMO

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:28 AM
Find Christy Road & Pine Mountain -- then follow Christy Road NE to Ekard Place (that's where they were).

I believe I saw the location on the map.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 09:29 AM
Your question is one that I've been pondering myself. Jeanne C. stated last night that "witnessess" had alerted poice to a missing mattress. Does that mean a tip was called in?
When you think about it, getting rid of any mattress is not simple. You can't just wad it up and throw it in a trash can. You have to "dispose" of it somehow. Even a twin size mattress is sort of cumbersome for one person to lug out of a room and out the door. And you have to have a vehicle to haul it away in and you have to deposit it somewhere. I'm wondering if someone with a truck helped take a a mattress to the landfill. I'm wondering if the mattress was rolled up into a log shape, like a rolled carpet, and tied or secured with cords. I'm wondering how that particular mattress could be distinguished on sight from any other mattress. (I would describe any mattress in my home as a large rectangle with a white padded cover. Can't recall any specific fabric designs or brand names. ) IMO, someone either came forth about helping remove the mattress to the landfill or maybe LE has a photograph from a computer that shows Zahra's sleeping quarters with a distinctive mattress, or they know to look for a certain size or style of mattress that has a suspicious lump in it.
MOO

I live in a 'colourful area' and mattresses are 'disposed of' in the streets around here continuously, I see a fair number on my walk into the office everyday. Usually they are dragged near a dumpster or onto the top of one and left, then picked up by whoever clears that. I really can't imagine these two actually taking it into the tip themselves, but can imagine them leaving it somewhere to be collected. Possibility of course.

Patty G
10-27-2010, 09:32 AM
Has it ever been reported in the media that the woodchipper was taken as evidence and taken apart, or that there was no evidence on the woodchipper?

agathawannabe
10-27-2010, 09:33 AM
I live in a 'colourful area' and mattresses are 'disposed of' in the streets around here continuously, I see a fair number on my walk into the office everyday. Usually they are dragged near a dumpster or onto the top of one and left, then picked up by whoever clears that. I really can't imagine these two actually taking it into the tip themselves, but can imagine them leaving it somewhere to be collected. Possibility of course.

Wasn't it reported that cadaver dogs hit on the dumpster at the donut shop behind the Bakers' house (or am I making that up)? Can't seem to find that in an article now.. but that's what I recall.

I think the mattress may have been disposed of in that dumpster and ended up in the landfill from there.

BritsKate
10-27-2010, 09:34 AM
Could be why the comment was removed because I went to find the original and could only see the one that was a copy and paste job.

The original is on a previous post and still intact. The person who C&P'd did so in order that other readers wouldn't miss the post. This is the link to the original comment:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/20/zahra-baker-case-911-calls-released/

Scroll down to the very bottom. HTH

Patty G
10-27-2010, 09:34 AM
Could be why the comment was removed because I went to find the original and could only see the one that was a copy and paste job.

It's still there just under another article.

tlcya
10-27-2010, 09:36 AM
hope all our local friends stayed safe last night and hoping for minimal property damage from the storms. Good morning all, here's to hoping this is the day we get some answers.

darnudes
10-27-2010, 09:40 AM
The original is on a previous post and still intact. The person who C&P'd did so in order that other readers wouldn't miss the post. This is the link to the original comment:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/10/20/zahra-baker-case-911-calls-released/

Scroll down to the very bottom. HTH

Thank you :) I looked all over for the original comment and couldn't find it anywhere - okay so Val left it intact.

Having been burnt in the past and no disrespect to Zahra's mother, but I won't believe it is really her until verified by Val, which I know she does do on occasion, such as with the Eric Preimesberger case.

tlcya
10-27-2010, 09:44 AM
just my own two cents, If I am the long silent, at least to public, bio mother of Z. When I do finally decde to clear the air and make a public statement about my daughter's disappearance, it won't be on a site such as Val's. No offense to Val or the site, but with all the rumor and intertest about "where is bio mom, who is bio mom, why is bio mom not speaking?" IF and WHEN I was goign to say something, it would be to MSM, not a letter to an arbitrary site.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 09:46 AM
just my own two cents, If I am the long silent, at least to public, bio mother of Z. When I do finally decde to clear the air and make a public statement about my daughter's disappearance, it won't be on a site such as Val's. No offense to Val or the site, but with all the rumor and intertest about "where is bio mom, who is bio mom, why is bio mom not speaking?" IF and WHEN I was goign to say something, it would be to MSM, not a letter to an arbitrary site.

You just gave me a horrible thought...I hope there's no 'media deal' in the works which may be why she's saving the 'reveal' I hope not.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:46 AM
I thought I read somewhere that there was no substantial evidence so far to show that any family member was intended to arrive at the airport when EB was there.

Blue Ridge
10-27-2010, 09:47 AM
I'm wondering how that particular mattress could be distinguished on sight from any other mattress. (I would describe any mattress in my home as a large rectangle with a white padded cover.
*respectfully snipped for bandwidth*

So glad to see someone else post this thought! The same thing crossed my mind. I would not be able to describe my own mattress to anyone much beyond it being full sized with some type of pastel colored, large floral design on it. That probably describes a huge % of people's mattresses. Unless Zahra had some really unusual design on her mattress or something (maybe a kid's cartoon character or something? Do they put those on mattresses?)

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:49 AM
Maybe she is quiet so as not to impeded the investigation? For all we know she could be still in Australia or in the USA, I'm sure if she was in the USA though media would have found her and or at least reported her being here.

froginTtown
10-27-2010, 09:50 AM
There were 3 searches yesterday.. One on Hartland...???? I didn't know that....:waitasec:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Zahra%20Baker%20%20-NC-/?action=view&current=102610searchChristieRdMattressatLandfillfo und001.mp4
Thanks cranky... :)

Kamille
10-27-2010, 09:52 AM
I'm horrible at digging through all my links, but I would have sworn it was reported that the mattress was tossed 2 days before the 911 call. I found a link yesterday that claimed "days before" it was thrown out. Does anyone have anything more specific. I think it would be important in determining what AB may have known / may not have known.

Also, does anyone else find it odd that AB hasn't made bail yet ? It's like $700 to get out of there I think? I'm really :waitasec: over why he hasn't obtained a lawyer and he's still sitting in jail. Unless he was getting threats , etc. from the public and feels he's safer in there ??? It seems too coincidental that he went in there right when mama got here. Thoughts?

Well even if it was two days before the 911 call, that was October 7th. AB claimed he saw Zahra up and out of bed that day. Not sure if he meant in the evening when he returned home from work but that's the idea I got from his interview. So that would suggest that EB had purchased the mattress during the day and hid it with a plan to kill Zahra after he went to sleep or work the next day and replace her mattress during the night or after he had left for work?

And LE keep insinuating that the parents (plural) disposed of the mattress so the witnesses may be neighbours who actually saw them loading it into the SUV.

If the replacement of Zahra's mattress was done in early October for a completely innocent reason, like she just needed a new one because maybe the dog soiled hers or whatever, then it's all going to come out with the DNA testing on the old one I suppose.

MOO

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:53 AM
if it is a cheap mattress like this (sorry it is small) This mattress probably could be rolled up and tied with effort especially if it was old and worn.

http://img01.static-nextag.com/image/Brookhaven-S136-Landon-Twin/1/000/007/368/229/736822941.jpg

passionflower
10-27-2010, 09:53 AM
I thought I read somewhere that there was no substantial evidence so far to show that any family member was intended to arrive at the airport when EB was there.

do you mean AB???

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:55 AM
do you mean AB???

Yes sorry AB, I haven't slept all night...so I'm tired.

tlcya
10-27-2010, 09:57 AM
Yes sorry AB, I haven't slept all night...so I'm tired.

sounds like you need to go to bed, get rested and then hit things fresh ;)

NancyA
10-27-2010, 09:58 AM
This is not Zahras mother.. Her mother never cared before.This is an imaginatve American.

With respect, we can't know that Zahra's mother 'never cared before', we can surmise, we can speculate, we can judge and we can condemn based on what we think she coulda woulda shoulda done if she were really concerned. Whatever the truth of how she came to give Zahra up and stay out of her life, if this case has touched the emotions of those who are complete strangers to Zahra, how much more must it have resounded with the one who gave birth to her? As far as I'm concerned I hold to one of the main premises of this site, we don't attack family members of victims who are also victims themselves - in this case Zahra's Grandmother and her Mother - unless there is something to show somewhere that they are complicit in what happened and deserve to be attacked.

As to who wrote that post at the hinky site, maybe it was an 'impostor' but it doesn't hurt sometimes to take things at face value and it had a ring of sincerity to me.

netsleuther
10-27-2010, 09:59 AM
do you think he has guilty knowledge of what happened/what was happening to Zahra?

I do

(hit thanks if you think he had guilty knowledge)

ianal, but I think that will get him something when this is all said and done moo

I don't really want to imagine that a father could be aware of anyone killing his child without doing anything about it. Also it would have to be the hardest thing to help cover up a crime knowing it was your child and you helped dispose of the body.

I am curious to know how long AB and EB had been fighting with their family and friends and even with each other. With all that fighting going on I wonder if AB ever wanted to leave EB but felt stuck in the USA and couldn't get away assuming EB fights with everyone.

Before I noticed the no sleuthing AY warning I did notice on his FB wall, dated way back in May where BS was saying haha EB is fighting with everyone now maybe AB will wake up and take Z and leave. May 13 or 23 from memory that comment is around the same time EB were charged with communicating threats

Lera213
10-27-2010, 09:59 AM
http://www.sleepwellbedding.ca/photos/32.png inexpensive mattress have all sorts of designs and colors so I'm sure hers wasn't an expensive one after all they went to the rent to own didn't they for TV and stuff? I cannot imagine them spending more then $150.00 for a mattress.

Kamille
10-27-2010, 10:01 AM
So glad to see someone else post this thought! The same thing crossed my mind. I would not be able to describe my own mattress to anyone much beyond it being full sized with some type of pastel colored, large floral design on it. That probably describes a huge % of people's mattresses. Unless Zahra had some really unusual design on her mattress or something (maybe a kid's cartoon character or something? Do they put those on mattresses?)

Maybe it originally matched the boxspring and it wasn't replaced? We know LE have it but I think the pics only showed it from the bottom?

MOO

netsleuther
10-27-2010, 10:02 AM
Well even if it was two days before the 911 call, that was October 7th. AB claimed he saw Zahra up and out of bed that day. Not sure if he meant in the evening when he returned home from work but that's the idea I got from his interview. So that would suggest that EB had purchased the mattress during the day and hid it with a plan to kill Zahra after he went to sleep or work the next day and replace her mattress during the night or after he had left for work?

And LE keep insinuating that the parents (plural) disposed of the mattress so the witnesses may be neighbours who actually saw them loading it into the SUV.

If the replacement of Zahra's mattress was done in early October for a completely innocent reason, like she just needed a new one because maybe the dog soiled hers or whatever, then it's all going to come out with the DNA testing on the old one I suppose.

MOO

What if :) The mattress were replaced because EB told AB that Z was brooding and spoiled the mattress?

Lera213
10-27-2010, 10:02 AM
Maybe it originally matched the boxspring and it wasn't replaced? We know LE have it but I think the pics only showed it from the bottom?

MOO

Good point, they knew what color it was via the box spring... very good on you!

Patty G
10-27-2010, 10:03 AM
Agreed, but we can't say that Zahra's mom didn't care. We have nothing from her own mouth, KWIM???


True, but many have posted the same feelings about Zahra's mother out of frustration. We don't really know anything about the backgorund history of Zahra's parents.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 10:03 AM
What if :) The mattress were replaced because EB told AB that Z was brooding and spoiled the mattress?

wait, he was trying to explain away why blood would be on the mattress if they found it...in his interview he stated she was brooding, and going through Puberty.

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 10:05 AM
Maybe it originally matched the boxspring and it wasn't replaced? We know LE have it but I think the pics only showed it from the bottom?

MOO

That could very well explain why they're so sure of the design!

wfgodot
10-27-2010, 10:05 AM
As to who wrote that post at the hinky site, maybe it was an 'impostor' but it doesn't hurt sometimes to take things at face value and it had a ring of sincerity to me.

While I don't doubt your sentiment, proof of accuracy is the WS standard, coupled with links from MSM - not the "ring of sincerity" and quotes from a dubious source.

Lera213
10-27-2010, 10:05 AM
This to me shows he was complicate in at least the cover up. His 911 call, maybe he was worried he didn't cover their tracks all the way and they might find some blood...dang

badhorsie
10-27-2010, 10:07 AM
You just gave me a horrible thought...I hope there's no 'media deal' in the works which may be why she's saving the 'reveal' I hope not.


I have been thinking a lot about biomum, I find it really odd that she has seemingly said nothing.
I believe that there must be a huge reason for this and have been wracking my mind about it.
Could she be hospitalised, in prison or even in a witness protection programme???
Like many things in this case it just does not make any sense
IMHO

:waitasec::banghead::banghead:

Kamille
10-27-2010, 10:08 AM
That could very well explain why they're so sure of the design!

If the boxspring that was removed from the house originally matched the mattress, they would have had pictures of it at the landfill to compare I would imagine.

MOO

Lera213
10-27-2010, 10:09 AM
I"m tired, let me type that again:

On the 911 call AB stated that Z was brooding, going through Puberty right? Ok, so even Pat on Levi's show stated that he went on and on trying to explain things on the phone to the 911 operator and explaining too much as a matter of fact. So this to me he has implicated himself. He was trying to come up with a cover story in case the cops found blood evidence. They were not sure if they cleaned up enough!

Mrs G Norris
10-27-2010, 10:10 AM
I have been thinking a lot about biomum, I find it really odd that she has seemingly said nothing.
I believe that there must be a huge reason for this and have been wracking my mind about it.
Could she be hospitalised, in prison or even in a witness protection programme???
Like many things in this case it just does not make any sense
IMHO

:waitasec::banghead::banghead:

There could be a very sad backstory regarding the biomum....there usually is when she doesn't have custody. I'd be speculating however.

badhorsie
10-27-2010, 10:10 AM
Yes sorry AB, I haven't slept all night...so I'm tired.

Bless you-get some sleep *hugs*

Lera213
10-27-2010, 10:12 AM
Bless you-get some sleep *hugs*

Thanks OT, I am suffering from Insomnia due to my thyroid meds are not correct. I'll sleep when I drop.

peg4x4
10-27-2010, 10:12 AM
True, but many have posted the same feelings about Zahra's mother out of frustration. We don't really know anything about the backgorund history of Zahra's parents.
This is true.. Sorry if I seemed judgmental. There is so much we will never know.. But the phrasing in the "letter" seems American. "StrangerDanger" seems to be an American phrase.. Someone from Australia please tell me if I'm on the right track.. all of this is my:twocents:

cleo612
10-27-2010, 10:12 AM
Patty G, you were asking about the wood chipper. It was reported last week that they were, indeed, taking it apart to see if there was any evidence within the confines of its inner parts. I do not know anything more than that, and unfortunately, do not have time to search out a link for that information. I believe it was stated shortly after they finished up the search(es) at the site where the wood chipper was parked.