View Full Version : 2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)
Patty G
11-03-2010, 11:26 PM
Transcribed letters
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39
tlcya
11-03-2010, 11:30 PM
Okay. Here's the thing. I have no confirmation, no link, no MSM, no verified local, no NOTHING. I think it is EB. I truly think she is that arrested emotionally, that manipulative, to watch this letter play out. IF it were someone PORTRAYING EB they certainly portrayed her ow her social sites would suggest she be played. all MOO
JBean
11-03-2010, 11:31 PM
Thanks Patty :hug:
Jetaime
11-03-2010, 11:33 PM
Not too O/T: I just looked at this website that has been corresponding with EB and i am absolutely sick. I understand that many of us tend to gravitate toward true crime & the working minds of serial killers...but...seriously? People actually pay these low lifes for their artwork? The fact that these creeps can not only profit, but become icons [to some] just baffles me. Scary thought....JMO.
Jetaime
11-03-2010, 11:35 PM
Okay. Here's the thing. I have no confirmation, no link, no MSM, no verified local, no NOTHING. I think it is EB. I truly think she is that arrested emotionally, that manipulative, to watch this letter play out. IF it were someone PORTRAYING EB they certainly portrayed her ow her social sites would suggest she be played. all MOO
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-zahras-mother-points-finger-at-husband-20101104-17et0.html
The owners of the website serialkillersink.net told an American local news network they reached out to Mrs Baker using a pen name.
"We don't doubt the authenticity of it," one owner, Jessika Gein, told Charlotte-based WBTV.
"If we write to that person and we get something back and it's stamped by the prison or the jail, the envelope, then we pretty much know it's legit," Ms Gein said.
She said the police also knew about the letters.
"They said that they have copies of all the letters that are coming and outgoing and that they know they're legit letters," she said.
Capri
11-03-2010, 11:36 PM
From Sydney Morning Herald:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-zahras-mother-points-finger-at-husband-20101104-17et0.html
CrimsonClover
11-03-2010, 11:37 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-zahras-mother-points-finger-at-husband-20101104-17et0.html
The owners of the website serialkillersink.net told an American local news network they reached out to Mrs Baker using a pen name.
"We don't doubt the authenticity of it," one owner, Jessika Gein, told Charlotte-based WBTV.
"If we write to that person and we get something back and it's stamped by the prison or the jail, the envelope, then we pretty much know it's legit," Ms Gein said.
She said the police also knew about the letters.
"They said that they have copies of all the letters that are coming and outgoing and that they know they're legit letters," she said.
This. I don't believe that EB knew this was someone who would be making these letters public, he just portrayed himself as a 'fan' and she fell for it hook line and sinker. MOO
Scamperoo
11-03-2010, 11:48 PM
This. I don't believe that EB knew this was someone who would be making these letters public, he just portrayed himself as a 'fan' and she fell for it hook line and sinker. MOO
Hmmm..I wonder, I noticed her lawyers were the ones to cough up the money for the writing pen/paper I'm sure they expected her to be communicating with someone and that the letters would be read. Maybe this is more contrived than at first glance after all she is giving enough details to implicate her husband in the crime. Not to mention absolving herself of blame...not that I believe her for a second. I always thought he was involved though.
MandyLeigh
11-04-2010, 12:07 AM
In case people would like to view the letters for themselves including the doodles but like me have bad eyes... I took them and ran them through some editing software to up the contrast. It brought out the writing more from the page.
Note: These are the letters allegedly written by Eliza Baker. I got the originals from WCNC here...
http://www.wcnc.com/news/Letters-allegedly-written-by-Elisa-Baker-Zahra-isnt-missing-106558484.html
http://i51.tinypic.com/2q08utt.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/30mmqeq.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/xd5w5l.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/10gfgcx.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2m3gzzc.jpg
Capri
11-04-2010, 12:13 AM
It seems quite immature, the writing/doodles at the end(considering this woman is 42 yrs. old):
"Goths Rule", "Vampires Rule" and signed "Dark Love Always" then her name.Anyone know any special significance of a 3 candle candelabra and the hanging spider doodles? Just doodles, or does 3 candles mean something special?
Laddsy
11-04-2010, 12:13 AM
Thanks for going to all that trouble Mandy - much appreciated
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 12:20 AM
In an earlier discussion a member of WS (I cannot recall) talked about taking a class in handwriting analysis. She had mentioned that there is often a pause before or after a word like kill that indicates guilt. I find that interesting. IMO there is a distinct pause before and after "kill" in the first letter. Also I notice that the word seems to be bold, almost as is she traced over it.
I wish I could remember who this was......
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 12:25 AM
It seems quite immature, the writing/doodles at the end(considering this woman is 42 yrs. old):
"Goths Rule", "Vampires Rule" and signed "Dark Love Always" then her name.Anyone know any special significance of a 3 candle candelabra and the hanging spider doodles? Just doodles, or does 3 candles mean something special?
That's interesting about the three candles. It's worth checking on I think ;)
I equated it to her version of the hearts and stars that my 14 year old doodles on her notebooks....
Kimster
11-04-2010, 12:38 AM
Why does this sound like the same theme from these women who are involved in missing children cases? I swear that letter could have been written by KC Anthony, Misty Croslin or Terri Horman. Me me me me me.
:furious:
Scamperoo
11-04-2010, 12:41 AM
It seems quite immature, the writing/doodles at the end(considering this woman is 42 yrs. old):
"Goths Rule", "Vampires Rule" and signed "Dark Love Always" then her name.Anyone know any special significance of a 3 candle candelabra and the hanging spider doodles? Just doodles, or does 3 candles mean something special?
I just see a woman who never quite grew up and never will. Her letters could have been penned by any teenager in love with the goth world or vampires of the Edward Cullen ilk. She has deluded herself into thinking she is different and special she lives in her own world and probably resents anything that forces her into reality. I don't think there are any hidden or secret messages from her, she does not strike me as a very complex person just :crazy:
tlcya
11-04-2010, 12:44 AM
Very schooolgirly, in a dark, goth, infatuated with vampires, like no 42 year old I know, kinda way.
MOO of letters
Wise Old Owl
11-04-2010, 12:45 AM
ITA scamperoo - its almost like her growth "stunted" (more like completely stopped) in the "teenage era". I would like to know more of her background and childhood. Not that its really going to make any difference - but what happened to her that could have caused this "skewed view" of reality and her strange ways of learning to cope
Does that make any sense?
GingerRed
11-04-2010, 12:50 AM
Why does this sound like the same theme from these women who are involved in missing children cases? I swear that letter could have been written by KC Anthony, Misty Croslin or Terri Horman. Me me me me me.
:furious:
I see what you did there! Answered your own question about them with the last five words.
No empathy. No concern for others unless their presence brings in some kind of feedback or supply.
pharmchick
11-04-2010, 12:57 AM
In an earlier discussion a member of WS (I cannot recall) talked about taking a class in handwriting analysis. She had mentioned that there is often a pause before or after a word like kill that indicates guilt. I find that interesting. IMO there is a distinct pause before and after "kill" in the first letter. Also I notice that the word seems to be bold, almost as is she traced over it.
I wish I could remember who this was......
I remember seeing that post too and can't find it either! But I did find this article from yesterday about analysis of these letters. http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475
Today, we shared the alleged words of Elisa Baker with two handwriting experts.
Thomas Thornburg says her writing shows the words of a very troubled
person.
He said "She's living in darkness. She calls it a friend, and she can't stay there, she has to surface."
Thomas Grogran runs a Charlotte company called the Forensic Document Laboratory.
According to Grogan, "She's very much into the moment. She's not one to think ahead or regard the consequences of her actions."
ynotdivein
11-04-2010, 01:20 AM
Hmmm..I wonder, I noticed her lawyers were the ones to cough up the money for the writing pen/paper I'm sure they expected her to be communicating with someone and that the letters would be read. Maybe this is more contrived than at first glance after all she is giving enough details to implicate her husband in the crime. Not to mention absolving herself of blame...not that I believe her for a second. I always thought he was involved though.
And ahem if i were incarcerated falsely for whatever allegation, and i had not heard from dh since i was hauled to the pokey.... um, well... my first impulse would NOT be to write flirtatious letters to some totally other dude...
:waitasec:
Scamperoo
11-04-2010, 01:27 AM
There is an interesting picture of her on this site, she is wearing a T shirt with a huge cross on the front. Unusual for someone who professes to be pagan. Maybe her lawyers are going for the insanity defense..in which case the letters make sense in laying the groundwork for the plea. Third or fourth pic down I think.
http://dedekeene.posterous.com/missing-child-hickorync-zahra-baker-not-seen :waitasec:
WhyaDuck?
11-04-2010, 01:28 AM
Three candle candelabras are often used in Neo-Pagan rituals, particularly for the New Moon. (Usually peaceful rituals, btw.) I suspect that and bad movies would be her inspiration.
Astrella613
11-04-2010, 01:39 AM
The question is, is this woman really stupid enough to pour her heart out to someone that has recently befriended her? I am having a hard time believing this. How unethical is it of a newspaper to do this? Doesn't she have a lawyer to advise her against doing this?
shefner
11-04-2010, 01:54 AM
Number 1 thing I notice: TOTAL ABSENCE OF CONCERN FOR ZAHRA!
Number 2 thing I notice: No explanation for what happened to Zahra, the circumstances surrounding the ransom note, the 911 call or any of the evidence!
Number 3 thing I notice: Absence of the concept of reality
Number 4 thing I notice: Narcissistic personality disorder
Number 5 thing I notice: No remorse, sadness, regret, guilt....most people experience these things during trauma in their family(even when they have done absolutely nothing to cause the trauma). This might indicative of a psychopathic disorder.
SevenSeas
11-04-2010, 01:55 AM
"Dark Love Always."
That signature says a lot about this ..this, person (being kind here) way more than I wanted to know. Verrry creepy...!! :yow:
ynotdivein
11-04-2010, 01:55 AM
The question is, is this woman really stupid enough to pour her heart out to someone that has recently befriended her?
RBBM
Yes. Yes she is.
This is a woman who at the age of 40 met a man online--not through a "match you up" type site but through a fantasy role-playing site. And she went to AU and married him. They came back here, and bad things happened.
I am having a hard time believing this. How unethical is it of a newspaper to do this? Doesn't she have a lawyer to advise her against doing this?
Not unethical for a newspaper, and her lawyer can advise away and she can choose to write to and do whatever.
:banghead:
Astrella613
11-04-2010, 02:00 AM
I need more proof Ynotdivein. It could be her letters but I am not buying it. Are we spelling her name wrong or is she? Elesa or Elisa.
Astrella613
11-04-2010, 02:03 AM
Also some parts of the letters don't make any sense. She wonders why she is on suicide watch yet goes on to say that she doesn't feel like living any more. Not her exact words but words to that effect.
WhyaDuck?
11-04-2010, 02:04 AM
Well, I think it comes down to whether you believe the site or not, since they claim the letters came securely from the prison. I think if the site did in fact get the letters from her in jail, they are actually from her. As to whether the site is being honest... Well, that is for each to decide, I guess.
As to the name issue, that is odd, but who knows? Maybe she thinks "e" is a darker letter than "i."
shefner
11-04-2010, 02:07 AM
This poor woman has no idea who she is...her whole persona is a lie that even she can't figure out. Definitely an identity crisis of major proportions since she doesn't know if she's a goth, a vampire, or a fairy.
She brags about a loved one being named "Damien" but complains when people think she is a satan-worshipper. Duh.....the name "Damien" and satan are synonymous. And signing your letters with "Dark love always" doesn't lend itself to visions of little angels with halos and harps....
Melanie
11-04-2010, 02:18 AM
The question is, is this woman really stupid enough to pour her heart out to someone that has recently befriended her? I am having a hard time believing this. How unethical is it of a newspaper to do this? Doesn't she have a lawyer to advise her against doing this?
The way I read it, she's already trying to hook up with this guy for money. She mentions she can receive money orders from the post office only. :innocent:
And she goes on to say I am 42, been told I don’t look my age.
Yah lady, you look closer to 50!
I don't get it. Did she get an edumacation, or was she a high school drop out. Because, it seems, she's still acting like a high schooler in her letters.
MOO
Mel
Capri
11-04-2010, 02:22 AM
Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.
"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.
"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57
WhyaDuck?
11-04-2010, 02:23 AM
The way I read it, she's already trying to hook up with this guy for money. She mentions she can receive money orders from the post office only. :innocent:
And she goes on to say I am 42, been told I don’t look my age.
Yah lady, you look closer to 50!
I don't get it. Did she get an edumacation, or was she a high school drop out. Because, it seems, she's still acting like a high schooler in her letters.
MOO
Mel
Let's not insult highschool dropouts - I am assuming most of them actually do grow up (such as basically everyone in my family), at least far more than whoever wrote these pink poodle diary letters.
ETA: As a personal aside, I was a Goth myself many, many moons ago, but then when I was about 20 or so, I decided I was now much too old to carry that style without looking sad... Little did I realize that I apparently could have gone with it for another 20 years or more!
Pondering Mind
11-04-2010, 02:27 AM
fwiw~She has used many different aliases from what we have learned (they are listed around here somewhere, but couldn't put my fingers right on them @ the moment ) with the spelling of her first name spelled the same as in 'the letters'...
Pondering Mind
11-04-2010, 02:30 AM
I need more proof Ynotdivein. It could be her letters but I am not buying it. Are we spelling her name wrong or is she? Elesa or Elisa.
bbm~
I believe that the correct spelling is Elisa..but I've seen Elesa, Elisha to name a couple..along with a variety of last names as well..
Pondering Mind
11-04-2010, 02:33 AM
Here is at least a partial list that Violet Foxglove has compiled..
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #8
Suthrnqt
11-04-2010, 02:43 AM
Did anyone see NG tonight?? Reason I am asking, is she stated that there are more letters from EB. And in these letters EB writes that AB had nothing to do with Zahra's death. Did anyone else see/hear that tonight? I would post a link, but I really don't know how to link something I saw on HLN channel.
ETA: EB also wrote that if her kids hadn't called DSS on her, none of this would have happened. Can't wait to read these letters. I hope this isn't considered a rumor because I did see it on TV, even though it was NG!
gitana1
11-04-2010, 03:16 AM
In an earlier discussion a member of WS (I cannot recall) talked about taking a class in handwriting analysis. She had mentioned that there is often a pause before or after a word like kill that indicates guilt. I find that interesting. IMO there is a distinct pause before and after "kill" in the first letter. Also I notice that the word seems to be bold, almost as is she traced over it.
I wish I could remember who this was......
I remember seeing that post too and can't find it either! But I did find this article from yesterday about analysis of these letters. http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475
I thought it might be interesting to read about handwriting analysis that was not influenced by what we already know or believe about EB. This article says:
Should you meet someone with multiple slants within a sentence or even a word, be aware that you are dealing with someone whose mood changes readily. This type of person can be quite versatile and lively, although the wear on their emotional system from pulling back and then jumping forward can make their emotional control a little erratic.
http://www.zimbio.com/Writing+with+Personality+for+Marketing+and+Sales/articles/20/Slant+Body+Language+Handwriting
I think that does mirror what one analyst said about EB, a bit.
Regarding how she spells her name, I think her I's look like E's. I think she spells her name: "Elisa".
Her writing to me looks like that of a teen-aged girl, assuming these are her letters.
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 03:55 AM
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local_state/article.aspx?storyid=150073
Thought we could use a link to this.........
darlin gal
11-04-2010, 04:40 AM
On Wednesday, Deal downplayed the significance of two letters a crime memorabilia website owner claims he received from Elisa Baker in jail.
The letters, which became public on Tuesday and have not been authenticated by police, say Zahra is dead and her husband did something "horrifying" to the girl after she died.
Deal said police decided not to send the letters to a handwriting expert so they could focus on the Caldwell County search.
He previously had said police planned to compare the letters with other samples of Elisa Baker's writing.
"It looks like we made the right choice," Deal said. "There are things more important" than the letters.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/04/1809922/bone-found-in-search-for-zahra.html
TxLady2
11-04-2010, 05:15 AM
Did anyone see NG tonight?? Reason I am asking, is she stated that there are more letters from EB. And in these letters EB writes that AB had nothing to do with Zahra's death. Did anyone else see/hear that tonight? I would post a link, but I really don't know how to link something I saw on HLN channel.
ETA: EB also wrote that if her kids hadn't called DSS on her, none of this would have happened. Can't wait to read these letters. I hope this isn't considered a rumor because I did see it on TV, even though it was NG!
I heard that on NG, too, Suthrnqt.
Melanie
11-04-2010, 05:39 AM
Let's not insult highschool dropouts - I am assuming most of them actually do grow up (such as basically everyone in my family), at least far more than whoever wrote these pink poodle diary letters.
ETA: As a personal aside, I was a Goth myself many, many moons ago, but then when I was about 20 or so, I decided I was now much too old to carry that style without looking sad... Little did I realize that I apparently could have gone with it for another 20 years or more!
Sorry - I didn't mean to offend or insult. It's just so odd to me that her letters read so childish. She could have a college education for all I know.
All the best,
Mel
netsleuther
11-04-2010, 05:59 AM
It seems quite immature, the writing/doodles at the end(considering this woman is 42 yrs. old):
"Goths Rule", "Vampires Rule" and signed "Dark Love Always" then her name.Anyone know any special significance of a 3 candle candelabra and the hanging spider doodles? Just doodles, or does 3 candles mean something special?
It seems like she is trying to gather support from her Gothic world.
I notice the writing style change a few times, it's hard to read the scan, but there are noticeable differences as though she might have wrote 2/3 of a page and then come back to it, but she could have just moved the page or something out of comfort but the slant of writing changes.
At first glance I was trying to see if she had been left or right handed.
Was there ever a scan of the ransom note made public?
netsleuther
11-04-2010, 06:08 AM
From the first letter: If I hadn’t admitted to that stupid note I be out in 3 weeks but no they kept pushing an he did that too
The part where she writes, "an he did that too."
Could this be EB suggesting that AB wrote the ransom note?
Texas Mist
11-04-2010, 06:11 AM
Did anyone see NG tonight?? Reason I am asking, is she stated that there are more letters from EB. And in these letters EB writes that AB had nothing to do with Zahra's death. Did anyone else see/hear that tonight? I would post a link, but I really don't know how to link something I saw on HLN channel.
ETA: EB also wrote that if her kids hadn't called DSS on her, none of this would have happened. Can't wait to read these letters. I hope this isn't considered a rumor because I did see it on TV, even though it was NG!
Found NG's transcript from tonite's show...she does say "more letters" :waitasec:
<snip>
First of all, to you, Lauren Lake. Even more letters surfacing, written behind jailhouse walls from stepmommy.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/03/ng.01.html
Donjeta
11-04-2010, 06:48 AM
I don't know if I trust handwriting analysis tells us very much about personality. I don't think there's reliable scientific evidence. I just looked at my notes from yesterday when I was dealing with a client and the slant changes pretty much every time I had put the pen and the paper down in the middle of something. It depends on the orientation and the angle of the paper to me and the table or the writing surface. If I write with the paper on the table it looks different from if I write in my lap, if I write with the paper angled and slightly to the side it looks different than the writing that I do with the paper straight in front of me.
But taking the letters as whole they do give the impression of a pretty immature and erratic person.
Hello my favorite dark person, interesting way to address someone, wonder how the person introduced themselves. Apparently they knew just how to appeal to EB
Hey its me Elesa. I am going crazy in this cell. me me me
I have told the cops everything I know bout whats happened to Zahra. Yeah right.
They arrested Adam but he got right back out how is that? For some reason this reminds me of Terri Horman emailing her friend about how she found out that Kaine could take their daughter and go. I don't know why.
See I told you I have no support. When? I thought this was the first letter.Have they had some other contact? A phone call or something?
I have never been so angry over stuff as I am right now. He knows whats happened to Zahra and yet I'm the one in here at least for now. You'd think if she was innocent and he was guilty she'd be angry that he killed Zahra and heartbroken that Zahra's dead but no, EB's just mad that she's in jail and AB's not. (BTW, note that she doesn't say SHE does NOT know what happened to Zahra...)
I have heard from mail I have gotten that people think is guilty and heartless to and me. Makes me wonder if there hasn't been someone else. Me me me... My stepdaughter has been dismembered and scattered to three winds or something and here I am worrying about whether my husband is cheating on me.
My lawyers have asked me if I wanted to divorce him cause of some stuff thats come out about Zahra. Probably a wise legal move if their defense strategy is to blame AB for everything.
We really didn't kill her Is that a bit like saying "We really didn't kill her, we just beat her to the point she couldn't move and let her starving and thirsty in her room so it's not our fault she died afterwards, it's her own fault for not going to the hospital..." Anyway, why the we? If she claims she doesn't know what happened to Zahra how does she know Adam didn't kill her?
but what he did after the fact
After the fact is convenient shorthand for a gruesome story about a child's death.
is kinda horrifying. If he dismembered his only daughter and put her through a wood chipper or something, why is it only "kinda" horrifying to EB? What should he have done to be horrifying without qualifiers?
Makes me scared of him. But you were not scared enough to report his actions to LE instead of trying to cover up?
So I probably am gonna ahead an file I have lost my whole life anyway. If I file for divorce it's not because he's a horrible child dismemberer but because we can't go back to being married anyways since I'm gonna be in prison so what's the point.
I have been filtered a lil of what the media is saying about me from drug problems to witchcraft. This is the part of losing her life that hurts the most I think. Even if she gets out her cover is blown and she can't go back to being the doting stepmom toting her child to charity events when she wants to. People are on to her.
I have never had a durg problem an people think Paganism is devil workshipping. Lots of people with drug problems say they don't have any. But I don't think she's a witch, otherwise she wouldn't have skipped the lessons about how to spell.
Our world is so full of hypocrits. Hope all is well with you since I heard from you I wrote you and still haven't heard back. Hopefully your not believing the media. Your the only friend I have at this point. The Misunderstood Little Teen Me Me routine. If the world doesn't like the things you do the world is wrong. So this wasn't the first letter? Why isn't he selling the first one?
Hopefully you send some pictures so I get an idea of who I am writing. I will be so glad to get out and go back to being myself. She's optimistic she's gonna get out.
Put my hair back like I normally wear it an be myself. This just ain't me. So her stepdaughter is dead and possibly dismembered but what she worries is that her bad hairdo doesn't reflect her true personality.
I am not happy with some of my lawyers decisions they wanna keep continuing cases that lowers my bond to a reasonable amount. and I ask about getting this Superior case on docket quick he says it could take 6 to 8 months. I don't wanna be in here that long yet again cause of something I didn't do. I bet she wouldn't wanna be in here even if she did.
He did all this. So you promptly reported him to LE when you found out. No wait, you didn't.
Halloween is almost here. Neat little transition here. A complete non sequitur.
I have done nothing but cry. I want out of at least solitary confinement. Im on suicide watch, why I have no idea. But I feel like I hav nothing to live for now. This makes no sense. If she's done nothing but cry and feels like she has nothing to live for that should give you an idea of the reasons for the suicide watch. Anyway, does she cry because Halloween is almost here? :waitasec:
I heard I have even made it to the Nancy Grace show the keep calling my lawyers wanting a interview with me. Everyone does. Fame at last.
Sometimes I think my lawyers shouldn't keep me out of the media. I want a chance to tell the truth and defend myself, no one else is. But I keep getting told to say nothing is best. So if she wants a chance to tell the truth she's been lying up to this, right?
I am gonna be debriefed this week so Adam is supposed to be arrested then again. I don't know nothing has went the way it was suppose to, not yet so far. They are fussing at me for not eating but I cant I have lost way to much weight they say I'm killing myself but what do they expect out of me. I feel like a fighting Chicken just waiting to get out. I am beyond stressed. When I saw my attorneys today and the said he was out after them promising me for my safety he wouldn’t be let out. What, for her safety? does she think that Adam can come visit her and hurt her? I'd have thought she'd be pretty safe from him in her solitary confinement anyway.
I flipped and have cried since, you’re my only calming factor and again I can’t think you enough for reaching out to me for what reasons you have, I am so thankful. Really. It would be nice to have a friendship, that’s something I have had very few of an now I see I had more obviously. It's nice of her to be grateful to her new friend. I suppose something good came out of Zahra's death: EB now sees the value of friends.
I swear I am gonna launch a campaign for people like us. The freaks of the world I guess. Off to save the world.
I’m sick of being ridiculed by being me. I am 42 years old and dam it I am proud to say I am not a clone. Like the stepford wives. lol. You gotta be a clone if you're not Elisa.
Funny the so called Christians are the first to judge me. You wouldn’t believe all the hate mail. People actually wanna kill me. I will have to go into hiding and move across the country when I get out a here. That’s scary. Like I said my lawyers don’t tell me all the world is saying but if it is anything like these letters Omg. I don’t like being sheltered though cause I need to know exactly what I am dealing with out there. So some psycho doesn’t come up behind an kill me. So she told her lawyers to shelter her but she doesn't like it? IDK... I think if I was worried about some psycho creeping behind me I'd be glad to be in solitary confinement.
I mean I never thought it would be this way. WHAT? When? When did she think about this at all? Is she leaking the truth in that there was some premeditation involved? I mean, it doesn't usually occur to people who have no reason to suspect their children are going to be killed to contemplate things like this: "I wonder what it would be like if my stepdaughter went missing and we had to report it. Would I be arrested? Gosh, I don't think people would send me hatemail or want to kill me."
My lawyers get death threats every day to. This is so crazy. I just wonder if Zahra hadn’t survived Cancer and been from Australia if it would truly be like this. If she was just a boring random all American child with both feet attached maybe we could have disappeared her and nobody would have given a ****, but we were very unlucky and she got media attention because she's such an adorable Australian cancer survivor. :waitasec:
There are so many missing kids, but Zahra isn’t missing the cops know where she is and what he has done. If I hadn’t admitted to that stupid note I be out in 3 weeks but no they kept pushing an he did that too. It's all Adam's fault. I think I can see their defence strategy now.
Anyway how you spending Halloween? Have fun for me please. Its my favorite holiday an I hate missing it. No fair.
The Halloween non sequitur again. She sounds like a ten year old here. But she's right, it's no fair that Zahra is dead and possibly dismembered somewhere and has to miss Halloween... no, wait, that's not what she was talking about.
Well I’ve said enough. I hope you write back soon and please send some pictures. I will talk to you soon I hope.
Dark Love Always,
Elesa
Be part of the freak show!
Your in my dark heart…
“Some girls wanna be princess’s when they grow up. I want to be a vampire!!!”
Goth’s Rule
Vamp’s Rule!
**Also a doodle of a candelabra and a spider**
She's 42 and still a girl wondering what she'll grow up to be?
Donjeta
11-04-2010, 07:08 AM
Hi Damien,
Sorry its took me so long to get back to you, but I had to wait until my lawyers put a lil money in my account. Thanks for your moral support. I need it although I’m not sure I deserve it at this point. Why wouldn't she deserve moral support if she's done nothing wrong? :waitasec:
As you probably know my family has turned pretty much against me and everyone is telling so many lies. If everybody is lying about her why wouldn't she deserve moral support?
Yeah I had my lawyers shut my myspace down cause of the bad publicity but once I am out I will redo it. My birthday is 6-6-68 so people was reading too much into that an my opening song living dead girl thing is I have had that myspace before I met Adam or Zahra. I am not sure how it or my face book got opened they was both marked private, but the cops can do whatever they want.
So, I'm 42, in jail, and my stepdaughter might be dead but I'm worried about redoing my myspace.
98% of the media stuff is lies that’s why everyone wants me dead. So what's the 2 % that's true?
But I have 2 of the best lawyers in the country and my own private investigator.
If she's indigent who pays for her PI?
I am 42, been told I don’t look my age even though my picture they are using on TV. Sucks If you have read my myspace you know quite a bit about me, but normally my hair is black and red and I have lost way too much weight. I never knew I was to look and act like everyone else in this stupid world. I don’t wanna be normal I have tried. but its hard covering all my tattoos and I love my piercings. So my stepdaughter might be dead but what I'm worried about is that people don't like the way I look.
My youngest grandson middle name is Damien thanks to me. Everyone has to have some achievement in their life they're proud of. I wonder if the letter person got this alias from something they dug up about Elisa.
Yes I can receive Money orders as long as they are from the post office and I can have pictures, just not sexual. Did the guy offer to send her money?
You ask what things I am into, well I love all horror movies. and even some mushy stuff too. I love the twilight movies. I watch those and wish I could get so lucky for someone to love me that way. So Adam wasn't the love of her life after all?
As far as music well you know most of what I like but I love Nickelback, Linkin Park, Korn stuff like that too. I write music and sing when I get a chance. I have a couple famous friends that sing as well. Chris Daughtry? :waitasec:
As far as Charles Manson is was truely a evil man. Makes you wonder what happened to make them that way. Apropos nothing, another non sequitur. How did she jump from singing to Charles Manson? Did the letter guy ask about CM?
All I have gotten is hate mail since I been here from everyone even my kids but you so it really is good to have at least person I can write and hopefully be friends with. The cops have my pocket book & money so my lawyers put me a lil money in my account so I could get paper and envelopes. This whole situation just suks. When I get out I have been told I have no where to go. so I am a bit scared. I have truely lost my whole life. It sucks to have lost her life but one could say that Zahra is in the same situation. But she shows absolutely no concern for her.
So tell me a lil about you about you, are you marries do you have kids? What else are you into? You know sorta what I look like, so what do you look like? Have you ever been is jail? It ain’t a fun place to be. I sure miss my warm waterbed. I’m on the floor at the moment in solitary confinement. Im climbing the walls literally. I hope to soon be out but who knows what Im doing when I do. Im gonna miss my favorite holiday Halloween, the one time a year I dont get judged and maybe thanksgiving and Christmas. I feel completely alone. well I guess I have said enough. Hope to hear back from you soon!
Dark Hearts,
Elesa Baker
It really is too bad that they don't have waterbeds in jail.
Elphaba
11-04-2010, 07:17 AM
There is an interesting picture of her on this site, she is wearing a T shirt with a huge cross on the front. Unusual for someone who professes to be pagan. Maybe her lawyers are going for the insanity defense..in which case the letters make sense in laying the groundwork for the plea. Third or fourth pic down I think.
http://dedekeene.posterous.com/missing-child-hickorync-zahra-baker-not-seen :waitasec:
That is considered a style of the Latin cross, on her shirt... it is Pagan in origin and very much embraced by the neo-Pagans.
If her lawyers are going to use those letters as part of an insanity defense, they need to coach her on how to take her "goth" persona up a few notches to CrazyLand because as of right now, she is just coming across as a middle-aged woman trying too hard to play up being "goth", in those letters. My guess is: like a silver bullet kills a werewolf, a wooden stake in the heart kills a vampire, you can kill goth wannabes like EB by taking their Hot Topic card away from them.
(Please, please, please understand I am not putting down the goth culture... I'm just saying that in my opinion, EB is a wannabe... the kind of "goth" that even real goths would roll their eyes at)
NancyA
11-04-2010, 07:17 AM
Hi Damien,
Sorry its took me so long to get back to you, but I had to wait until my lawyers put a lil money in my account. Thanks for your moral support. I need it although I’m not sure I deserve it at this point. Why wouldn't she deserve moral support if she's done nothing wrong? :waitasec:
As you probably know my family has turned pretty much against me and everyone is telling so many lies. If everybody is lying about her why wouldn't she deserve moral support?
Yeah I had my lawyers shut my myspace down cause of the bad publicity but once I am out I will redo it. My birthday is 6-6-68 so people was reading too much into that an my opening song living dead girl thing is I have had that myspace before I met Adam or Zahra. I am not sure how it or my face book got opened they was both marked private, but the cops can do whatever they want.
So, I'm 42, in jail, and my stepdaughter might be dead but I'm worried about redoing my myspace.
98% of the media stuff is lies that’s why everyone wants me dead. So what's the 2 % that's true?
But I have 2 of the best lawyers in the country and my own private investigator.
If she's indigent who pays for her PI?
I am 42, been told I don’t look my age even though my picture they are using on TV. Sucks If you have read my myspace you know quite a bit about me, but normally my hair is black and red and I have lost way too much weight. I never knew I was to look and act like everyone else in this stupid world. I don’t wanna be normal I have tried. but its hard covering all my tattoos and I love my piercings. So my stepdaughter might be dead but what I'm worried about is that people don't like the way I look.
My youngest grandson middle name is Damien thanks to me. Everyone has to have some achievement in their life they're proud of. I wonder if the letter person got this alias from something they dug up about Elisa.
Yes I can receive Money orders as long as they are from the post office and I can have pictures, just not sexual. Did the guy offer to send her money?
You ask what things I am into, well I love all horror movies. and even some mushy stuff too. I love the twilight movies. I watch those and wish I could get so lucky for someone to love me that way. So Adam wasn't the love of her life after all?
As far as music well you know most of what I like but I love Nickelback, Linkin Park, Korn stuff like that too. I write music and sing when I get a chance. I have a couple famous friends that sing as well. Chris Daughtry? :waitasec:
As far as Charles Manson is was truely a evil man. Makes you wonder what happened to make them that way. Apropos nothing, another non sequitur. How did she jump from singing to Charles Manson? Did the letter guy ask about CM?
All I have gotten is hate mail since I been here from everyone even my kids but you so it really is good to have at least person I can write and hopefully be friends with. The cops have my pocket book & money so my lawyers put me a lil money in my account so I could get paper and envelopes. This whole situation just suks. When I get out I have been told I have no where to go. so I am a bit scared. I have truely lost my whole life. It sucks to have lost her life but one could say that Zahra is in the same situation. But she shows absolutely no concern for her.
So tell me a lil about you about you, are you marries do you have kids? What else are you into? You know sorta what I look like, so what do you look like? Have you ever been is jail? It ain’t a fun place to be. I sure miss my warm waterbed. I’m on the floor at the moment in solitary confinement. Im climbing the walls literally. I hope to soon be out but who knows what Im doing when I do. Im gonna miss my favorite holiday Halloween, the one time a year I dont get judged and maybe thanksgiving and Christmas. I feel completely alone. well I guess I have said enough. Hope to hear back from you soon!
Dark Hearts,
Elesa Baker
It really is too bad that they don't have waterbeds in jail.
Thank you for your masterly analysis of the letters, saved me the trouble of doing it myself....only that last line about the waterbeds in jail made me spit coffee everywhere, maybe it's just wishful thinking, because I thought it read 'waterboards'. :biggrin:
peg4x4
11-04-2010, 07:18 AM
Thanks for the transcript..
I hope y'all never see my handwriting! Slant changes word to word,random changes from print to cursive,capital letters pop up anywhere.. At least there are no little circles over the "i"s :)
These must be the stupidest people on the planet.
NancyA
11-04-2010, 07:27 AM
That is considered a style of the Latin cross, on her shirt... it is Pagan in origin and very much embraced by the neo-Pagans.
If her lawyers are going to use those letters as part of an insanity defense, they need to coach her on how to take her "goth" persona up a few notches to CrazyLand because as of right now, she is just coming across as a middle-aged woman trying too hard to play up being "goth", in those letters. My guess is: like a silver bullet kills a werewolf, a wooden stake in the heart kills a vampire, you can kill goth wannabes like EB by taking their Hot Topic card away from them.
(Please, please, please understand I am not putting down the goth culture... I'm just saying that in my opinion, EB is a wannabe... the kind of "goth" that even real goths would roll their eyes at)
ITA. EB' entire existence is that of a desperate wannabe someone - anyone. Goth, Pagan, Wicca, Vampire - latching onto anything that would make people NOTICE how different, eclectic, free spirited and exotic she is....it only needs to come out now that she's 'bi-sexual' too and she's got a full deck of 'look at me - I'm so different' cards.
badhorsie
11-04-2010, 07:29 AM
Brilliant analysis Donjeta, I am just speechless...my dog has more emotional intelligence than this fr- I mean "woman"
Donjeta
11-04-2010, 07:33 AM
That is considered a style of the Latin cross, on her shirt... it is Pagan in origin and very much embraced by the neo-Pagans.
If her lawyers are going to use those letters as part of an insanity defense, they need to coach her on how to take her "goth" persona up a few notches to CrazyLand because as of right now, she is just coming across as a middle-aged woman trying too hard to play up being "goth", in those letters. My guess is: like a silver bullet kills a werewolf, a wooden stake in the heart kills a vampire, you can kill goth wannabes like EB by taking their Hot Topic card away from them.
(Please, please, please understand I am not putting down the goth culture... I'm just saying that in my opinion, EB is a wannabe... the kind of "goth" that even real goths would roll their eyes at)
JMO, just a personal hunch but I think the goth thing is an excuse for feeling different. She has some sort of a personality problem or a mental health problem that makes it hard for her to get along with the world and she's adopted the goth thing because it is more pleasant to think that people despise me because I have a different lifestyle and look like a freak than to think that people don't like me because I am a freak, a difficult person to like.
Not saying that people with mental health problems are freaks, I have had some myself, and I don't mean it as name calling. Just a word I got from her own description of herself. There is a difference between looking strange when it's an adopted lifestyle and something external to you and between feeling strange when it's brought on you by something internal in your personality or identity. If the world thinks you're a freak because of the way you look you can console yourself saying they're prejudiced judgmental idiots the whole lot of them but if the world thinks you're a freak because you have a tendency to run about threatening people and trying to run them off the road and to abuse children it might not be the world who is wrong, it could be you.
It's a safer explanation and IMO she takes it in her letters. She gets hate mail and she rationalizes it by saying she looks different and can't hide her piercings and tattoos and never wanted to look normal anyway. But I don't really think she got that many death threats because she has piercings but rather because people think she hurt Zahra. She looked the same before Zahra went missing and did it get her death threats? I don't think so.
maggieo
11-04-2010, 07:49 AM
Thank you, Donjeta -- a truly excellent analysis.
To me the most telling thing about these letters is what they lack: any regret, sadness, or the tiniest whiff of concern for Zahra. I mean, her disdain for the child is SO obvious. She couldn't even bring herself to fake it. Which to me indicates that she feels justified in hating the child.
I wonder what she means when she says that "this wouldn't have happened" if her children hadn't called DSS on her? Does she mean she wouldn't have been caught (it was the ransom note that she's in jail for) or is it that she wouldn't have beaten the child to death if she wasn't so angry about the DSS calls?
I'm leaning toward the latter.
maggieo
11-04-2010, 07:51 AM
JMO, just a personal hunch but I think the goth thing is an excuse for feeling different. She has some sort of a personality problem or a mental health problem that makes it hard for her to get along with the world and she's adopted the goth thing because it is more pleasant to think that people despise me because I have a different lifestyle and look like a freak than to think that people don't like me because I am a freak, a difficult person to like.
Not saying that people with mental health problems are freaks, I have had some myself, and I don't mean it as name calling. Just a word I got from her own description of herself. There is a difference between looking strange when it's an adopted lifestyle and something external to you and between feeling strange when it's brought on you by something internal in your personality or identity. If the world thinks you're a freak because of the way you look you can console yourself saying they're prejudiced judgmental idiots the whole lot of them but if the world thinks you're a freak because you have a tendency to run about threatening people and trying to run them off the road and to abuse children it might not be the world who is wrong, it could be you.
Very, very insightful.
passionflower
11-04-2010, 08:24 AM
Oh it's great that EB can write flirty notes to a stranger but wouldn't mail Zahra's letters out to her little friend............I think it should be payback time.........hold her pencils, paper and envelopes back!!!
NO money in her kitty.........
OldAussie
11-04-2010, 08:53 AM
From Sydney Morning Herald:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-zahras-mother-points-finger-at-husband-20101104-17et0.html
A very clear photo of AB's T shirt. "VENGENCE" Indeed Mr Baker, VENGENCE shall be Zahra's! Soon I hope.
Belinda
11-04-2010, 08:55 AM
I think the letters are from EB, but I think they are a plant. She has escaped the consequences for her various crimes for years. I don't think she is dumb by any means. Every word of these letters had a reason. This is her way of skewing things and getting alternate theories out there. Also, of course, to deflect from her own responsibility. Notice, she never actually gives any real information.
OldAussie
11-04-2010, 09:05 AM
Did anyone see NG tonight?? Reason I am asking, is she stated that there are more letters from EB. And in these letters EB writes that AB had nothing to do with Zahra's death. Did anyone else see/hear that tonight? I would post a link, but I really don't know how to link something I saw on HLN channel.
ETA: EB also wrote that if her kids hadn't called DSS on her, none of this would have happened. Can't wait to read these letters. I hope this isn't considered a rumor because I did see it on TV, even though it was NG!
Yes, I heard it on NG but I have not seen any new letters anywhere.
Beagle
11-04-2010, 09:06 AM
I think the letters are from EB, but I think they are a plant. She has escaped the consequences for her various crimes for years. I don't think she is dumb by any means. Every word of these letters had a reason. This is her way of skewing things and getting alternate theories out there. Also, of course, to deflect from her own responsibility. Notice, she never actually gives any real information.
Well they certainly could be a way of helping to get an insanity plea?:waitasec:
Astrella613
11-04-2010, 09:23 AM
I thought that Goth and Vamp were two different things and I think she is a little too old to be either! She is right about one thing, she sure doesn't look her age. The only thing she is, is evil and not getting how she separates her evil from CM evil, look about the same to me.
Cherry Baby
11-04-2010, 09:27 AM
ITA scamperoo - its almost like her growth "stunted" (more like completely stopped) in the "teenage era".
And it may be a choice of her own also. I read these as a 40 something woman who has more fun in the fantasy world than the real world and acts accordingly. I think everybody has a fantasy or two and there's nothing wrong with that. When you live it and it becomes destructive to those around you then there is a huge problem.
Donjeta
11-04-2010, 09:32 AM
I think the letters are from EB, but I think they are a plant. She has escaped the consequences for her various crimes for years. I don't think she is dumb by any means. Every word of these letters had a reason. This is her way of skewing things and getting alternate theories out there. Also, of course, to deflect from her own responsibility. Notice, she never actually gives any real information.
She definitely uses the letters to get the "Adam did it all and I'm just a poor misunderstood soul here" idea out there but she wasn't quite bright enough to pretend any concern for Zahra. The letters have got to be very real IMO as far as they portray her as concerned only for herself because I can't see any reason she would benefit from fake selfishness.
Belinda
11-04-2010, 09:33 AM
Well they certainly could be a way of helping to get an insanity plea?:waitasec:
I don't think these letters will help her at all in an insanity plea. They come off childish and immature, but not crazy. I think there is a definite personality disorder going on here, but she isn't certifiably nuts. IMO
Sleuthster
11-04-2010, 09:46 AM
There is irony in all of this IMO. She mentions in the letters that she can get money orders and I think in a twisted way she was trying to manipulate this person for her own gain. Feel sorry for me, we're both into the darkside bs, theyall want to kill me, I need you, your my bestfried, no one loves me, Im withering away poor me poor me poor me etc.She thought she had one of those groupies that would send her some money for her jail account. In actuallity they where just a facade wanting to manipulate her into writing some juicy info so they could sell these letters for financial gain.
She is definately not the brightest crayon in the box.
BTW, I had to laugh when she said she didnt look her age. No, she looks much much older.
WhyaDuck?
11-04-2010, 09:55 AM
What do we think about the "we didn't kill her, but..."? So, she died, but EB claims that AB did something horrific afterwards - like what - dismemberment, I assume?
So, what in her mind would be "we didn't kill her"? Frankly, I could see someone at this level saying in her head, "We only beat her, and then she died, so we didn't kill her, really." (As if that wasn't murder.)
My theory is that someone hit her, she got sick and wasn't taken to hospital, and died later from it, and then AB dismembered her to hide the body.
What's your take on why she would claim they didn't kill her, and yet she died?
(Although, in her mind, she might think it is "cool" to have a husband that did awful things to dead bodies, so the letter might all be manure, AFAIK.)
Yellow Rose
11-04-2010, 10:15 AM
Good article that was updated this morning on the letters:
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local_state/article.aspx?storyid=150073
"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.
"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.
Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."
This woman quite definitely fits that description!
JoeFromLB
11-04-2010, 12:19 PM
Three candle candelabras are often used in Neo-Pagan rituals, particularly for the New Moon. (Usually peaceful rituals, btw.) I suspect that and bad movies would be her inspiration.
respectfully bolded by me...
I'm not at all sure that the "goth" and neo-pagan stuff is just a harmless fantasy here. I'd like to know more about the "virtual world" she was into on the internet, the connections she made there, and the mystery of someone from overseas sending her $10,000. For what???
My speculation here has been leading me into some dark areas, and I really don't want to think too much about those possibilities, IYKWIM.
WhyaDuck?
11-04-2010, 12:30 PM
respectfully bolded by me...
I'm not at all sure that the "goth" and neo-pagan stuff is just a harmless fantasy here. I'd like to know more about the "virtual world" she was into on the internet, the connections she made there, and the mystery of someone from overseas sending her $10,000. For what???
My speculation here has been leading me into some dark areas, and I really don't want to think too much about those possibilities, IYKWIM.
My original comment was about actual practicing Neo-Pagans, so as to not paint the whole tradition with the same brush in noting that EB's inspiration may have come from that use of the candelabra.
I agree that this couple's specific use of things might not be so peaceful.
ETA: There is a thread in the Parking Lot about the virtual world stuff that you might want to look at, but all information relating to that is to remain in the member's only area for the time being.
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 12:55 PM
Thank you, Donjeta -- a truly excellent analysis.
To me the most telling thing about these letters is what they lack: any regret, sadness, or the tiniest whiff of concern for Zahra. I mean, her disdain for the child is SO obvious. She couldn't even bring herself to fake it. Which to me indicates that she feels justified in hating the child.
I wonder what she means when she says that "this wouldn't have happened" if her children hadn't called DSS on her? Does she mean she wouldn't have been caught (it was the ransom note that she's in jail for) or is it that she wouldn't have beaten the child to death if she wasn't so angry about the DSS calls?
I'm leaning toward the latter.
I think it means "we couldn't take her to the hospital because of the previous DSS records".
She says the "really" didn't kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.
I think she hurt her much worse than she intended, and they couldn't take her for help because people wouldn't mind their own business and she had a record with DSS so her story at the hospital wouldn't be believed.
Totally warped rationalization of course but I think that is exactly what she means. Not her fault the kid is dead, she had cancer and could have died before, she didn't mean to kill her, if no one had called DSS she could have taken her to the hospital but that is not her fault it is theirs, and what she did wasn't suppose to kill her but what AB did afterwards, THAT was horrific.
She is a sociopath.
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 01:01 PM
I don't think these letters will help her at all in an insanity plea. They come off childish and immature, but not crazy. I think there is a definite personality disorder going on here, but she isn't certifiably nuts. IMO
These letters work against her for an insanity plea IMO.
She is crazy as a loon, no question.
But she is absolutely competent to stand trial, knows right from wrong, and is aware of the legal proceeding surrounding her. She is literate, aware of her surrounding, fluent in the language. The letters don't help her defense at all.
tfrohning
11-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Did anyone see NG tonight?? Reason I am asking, is she stated that there are more letters from EB. And in these letters EB writes that AB had nothing to do with Zahra's death. Did anyone else see/hear that tonight? I would post a link, but I really don't know how to link something I saw on HLN channel.
ETA: EB also wrote that if her kids hadn't called DSS on her, none of this would have happened. Can't wait to read these letters. I hope this isn't considered a rumor because I did see it on TV, even though it was NG!
Yes! Yes! I heard that on NG and went and got the snip from the Transcript.
Straight out to Ellie Jostad. There are other letters, are there not? And what do they reveal?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. Actually we spoke to somebody who got a letter from Elisa Baker. However, that woman says that Elisa claimed that Adam Baker was not involved.
But what`s more, she said that this was all her daughter`s, meaning Elisa Baker`s daughter`s fault. She said if the daughter had never called DFS on her, none of this would have ever happened.
I never heard that her daughter called DFS. This explain why her daughter did not want her mom release and why she was scare of her.
Again EB making excuses.:furious:
If true it also shows that her daughter did not get her mothers trait of evil.
CrimsonClover
11-04-2010, 01:05 PM
Snip...
She says the didn't "really" kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.
She says "really didn't kill her" not "didn't really kill her".
myzzy
11-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Yes! Yes! I heard that on NG and went and got the snip from the Transcript.
Straight out to Ellie Jostad. There are other letters, are there not? And what do they reveal?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. Actually we spoke to somebody who got a letter from Elisa Baker. However, that woman says that Elisa claimed that Adam Baker was not involved.
But what`s more, she said that this was all her daughter`s, meaning Elisa Baker`s daughter`s fault. She said if the daughter had never called DFS on her, none of this would have ever happened.
I never heard that her daughter called DFS. This explain why her daughter did not want her mom release and why she was scare of her.
Again EB making excuses.:furious:
If true it also shows that her daughter did not get her mothers trait of evil.
I believe i read in the other thread that the letter was to her best friend?
Has EB's children spoken out about why they are afraid of their mother and why they wanted them to stay in jail and their thoughts on Zahra's dissappearence? I dont think we have heard from any side of the family publicly talking unless i was asleep through the whole thing
bessie
11-04-2010, 01:18 PM
What do we think about the "we didn't kill her, but..."? So, she died, but EB claims that AB did something horrific afterwards - like what - dismemberment, I assume?
So, what in her mind would be "we didn't kill her"? Frankly, I could see someone at this level saying in her head, "We only beat her, and then she died, so we didn't kill her, really." (As if that wasn't murder.)
My theory is that someone hit her, she got sick and wasn't taken to hospital, and died later from it, and then AB dismembered her to hide the body.
What's your take on why she would claim they didn't kill her, and yet she died?
(Although, in her mind, she might think it is "cool" to have a husband that did awful things to dead bodies, so the letter might all be manure, AFAIK.)
Having just watched the video and read the thread about the unmailed letters to Zahra's friend, I'm having a difficult time believing that she is not fully aware of what happened, and that it was legally and morally wrong. I do think, however, she is building as her defense the excuse that Zahra's death was the result of a simple mishap, and they are guilty only of eliminating her remains.
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 01:23 PM
Snip...
She says "really didn't kill her" not "didn't really kill her".
Thanks, i was going to go look it up, I will fix my post, I still think that is what she meant
westsidefox64
11-04-2010, 01:29 PM
is there a screen shot released or a transcript of the letter she wrote her friend?
WhyaDuck?
11-04-2010, 01:43 PM
Transcribed letters
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5757010&postcount=31)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5757186&postcount=128)
Bumping.
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 01:45 PM
Oh it's great that EB can write flirty notes to a stranger but wouldn't mail Zahra's letters out to her little friend............I think it should be payback time.........hold her pencils, paper and envelopes back!!!
NO money in her kitty.........
After she is convicted I agree, i the meantime give her paper, pen and stamps and let her write her own evidence trail. She can be cut off from chat when she is convicted.. imo
Cinderella.
11-04-2010, 01:54 PM
I think it means "we couldn't take her to the hospital because of the previous DSS records".
She says the didn't "really" kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.
I think she hurt her much worse than she intended, and they couldn't take her for help because people wouldn't mind their own business and she had a record with DSS so her story at the hospital wouldn't be believed.
Totally warped rationalization of course but I think that is exactly what she means. Not her fault the kid is dead, she had cancer and could have died before, she didn't mean to kill her, if no one had called DSS she could have taken her to the hospital but that is not her fault it is theirs, and what she did wasn't suppose to kill her but what AB did afterwards, THAT was horrific.
She is a sociopath.
100% agreed, I think this is what happened.
I too noticed how the word "kill" was different looking than the rest of the writing. It definately stood out to me, it almost looks bolded. I'm no expert but this just makes me feel... :sick:
rbrnmw2
11-04-2010, 02:02 PM
****MOO****
Did anyone else notice in the letter she does not write Adam and I did not really kill her? Then she writes what HE did was kinda horrifying? I just found the wording odd and wondered if her HE is AB or someone else. When I talk about my husband doing something I say **** did this or that merely an observation, I just wondered if this struck anyone else as a bit strange?
tfrohning
11-04-2010, 02:04 PM
I believe i read in the other thread that the letter was to her best friend?
Has EB's children spoken out about why they are afraid of their mother and why they wanted them to stay in jail and their thoughts on Zahra's dissappearence? I dont think we have heard from any side of the family publicly talking unless i was asleep through the whole thing
I never seen or heard EB family speak out only read about the court hearing where her daughter's Testimony.
snip
Snip
Testimony from one of Baker's adult children, xxxxxxxx, helped convince the judge that the woman is a flight risk. xxxxx said she feared her mother after a childhood spent frequently moving houses.
more at link
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/21/missing-nc-girls-stepmom-deemed-flight-risk/?test=latestnews
KPMcLovin
11-04-2010, 02:20 PM
For any local yocals... tonight on News @ (WFMY) they are doing a story on how to assess a person's personality based on handwriting. One thing I heard them say was something about double loops meaning you were a pathological liar. Unfortunately I was in the other room and didn't hear which letter they were talking about.
21merc7
11-04-2010, 02:22 PM
RSS:
:floorlaugh: Donjeta, I couldn't help it, your sense of humor is fantastic! A witch that never learned to spell, lol!
Back on topic, I believe Elisa wrote these, and this is just so sad. She just never grew up, I don't know the reasons why, but it is sad, even more so that it all came to the murder of a beautiful young girl.
I have never had a durg problem an people think Paganism is devil workshipping. Lots of people with drug problems say they don't have any. But I don't think she's a witch, otherwise she wouldn't have skipped the lessons about how to spell.
JoeFromLB
11-04-2010, 02:31 PM
from EB's purported letters:
re: Halloween
"Its my favorite holiday an I hate missing it. No fair."
Color me surprised! /sarc
Suthrnqt
11-04-2010, 03:14 PM
Yes! Yes! I heard that on NG and went and got the snip from the Transcript.
Straight out to Ellie Jostad. There are other letters, are there not? And what do they reveal?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. Actually we spoke to somebody who got a letter from Elisa Baker. However, that woman says that Elisa claimed that Adam Baker was not involved.
But what`s more, she said that this was all her daughter`s, meaning Elisa Baker`s daughter`s fault. She said if the daughter had never called DFS on her, none of this would have ever happened.
I never heard that her daughter called DFS. This explain why her daughter did not want her mom release and why she was scare of her.
Again EB making excuses.:furious:
If true it also shows that her daughter did not get her mothers trait of evil.
Thanx tfrohning for backing up my post with the transcript of NG. I really appreciate you doing all the work. I'm really not good with links & snips.
I'm so glad that you were able to do this. I didn't want WSers to think this was a rumor or that I was just slap nuts.:waitasec: Thanks so much.
Suthrnqt
11-04-2010, 03:21 PM
is there a screen shot released or a transcript of the letter she wrote her friend?
Thanks to tfrohning there is a snip of the NG transcript. I'm so glad that someone was able to find this info. As far as I know, the additional letters have not been released yet. But the letters do exist. :dance::dance:
Suthrnqt
11-04-2010, 03:24 PM
****MOO****
Did anyone else notice in the letter she does not write Adam and I did not really kill her? Then she writes what HE did was kinda horrifying? I just found the wording odd and wondered if her HE is AB or someone else. When I talk about my husband doing something I say **** did this or that merely an observation, I just wondered if this struck anyone else as a bit strange?
I noticed that as well. You know there is a theory going around that a 3rd person was involved. However, we are not allowed to discuss this person.....not yet anyway.
tfrohning
11-04-2010, 04:11 PM
****MOO****
Did anyone else notice in the letter she does not write Adam and I did not really kill her? Then she writes what HE did was kinda horrifying? I just found the wording odd and wondered if her HE is AB or someone else. When I talk about my husband doing something I say **** did this or that merely an observation, I just wondered if this struck anyone else as a bit strange?
snip
My lawyers have asked me if I wanted to divorce him cause of some stuff thats come out about Zahra. We really didn't kill her but what he did after the fact is kinda horrifying. Makes me scared of him. So I probably am gonna ahead an file
IMO from the underline part I think she talking AB JMO
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 04:17 PM
snip
My lawyers have asked me if I wanted to divorce him cause of some stuff thats come out about Zahra. We really didn't kill her but what he did after the fact is kinda horrifying. Makes me scared of him. So I probably am gonna ahead an file
IMO from the underline part I think she talking AB JMO
I agree. I infer that she is talking about AB because directly preceding this statement she is talking about AB being already out and that is when she starts using "he". IMO this indicates that "he" is AB thereafter.
Capri
11-04-2010, 06:09 PM
We really didn't kill her but what he did after the fact is kinda horrifying. Makes me scared of him.
This whole sentence is just strange, "really" didn't kill her, meaning what....she's dead but I'm not taking responsibility for "killing"???
and "kinda " horrifying. These are not usually 2 words used together. Either something is horrifying or it's not. Seems the by using "kinda" , she is trying to minimize what was done.
Paige SC
11-04-2010, 07:48 PM
Jetaime;5762457]http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-zahras-mother-points-finger-at-husband-20101104-17et0.html
The owners of the website serialkillersink.net told an American local news network they reached out to Mrs Baker using a pen name.
"We don't doubt the authenticity of it," one owner, Jessika Gein, told Charlotte-based WBTV.
Another OT comment...When I read the last name Gein, I wondered if the owners were related to the infamous Ed Gein, so I did a quick search. Turns out there's no relation, although I might of felt better somehow if they was one! :shocked2:
http://www.folioweekly.com/documents/main_081710_000.pdf
Eric and Jessika Gein are a real Jacksonville husband
and wife who sell killer collectibles on their website
SerialKillersInk.net, but “Gein” is not their real name.
Although they’ve been quoted and identified as the
“Geins” in some 22 television and newspaper stories, Eric explains they adopted the pseudonym in a kind of homage to murderer and grave-robber Ed Gein, whose crimes inspired the characters of Norman Bates in “Psycho,” Buffalo Bill in “The Silence of the Lambs” and Leatherface from “The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.”
Eric Gein says he can’t use his real name when
discussing the business of Serial Killers Ink. He says his family would disown him. He claims he promised his parents he would use a pseudonym, to prevent his work from causing problems at their church. He’s also deferential to his mother’s illness. Gein says she’s suffering from stage 3 cancer. Pleading for continued anonymity, the 41-year-old graphic designer and member of Robert E. Lee High School’s 1987 graduating class, implores like a child:
“Please, please, please, please, please.”
It does seem prudent to protect one’s identity after
building a friendship with a psychopath like Jablonski.
After his release from prison in 1991 for the murder of his first wife, Jablonski sexually assaulted and
sadistically murdered one of his prison penpals.
But it’s not Jablonski that Gein fears, or
any other of the necrophiliac, cannibalistic,
Satan-worshipping, gay-murdering, womentorturing
killers with whom he maintains a regular correspondence. “It’s not the serial killers I’m afraid of,” he explains. “It’s the victims’ families.”
ICK. :puke:
I mean, ICK. Really.
:furious:
Dr. Know?
11-04-2010, 08:12 PM
Watching Nancy Grace and family members have rec'd 4 letters. Elisa claims Zahra had been ill and she found her dead. She's pointing at Adam a lot. Hopefully they will be released.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/timer55
ynotdivein
11-04-2010, 08:23 PM
First letter: "My lawyers have asked me if I want to divorce him cause of some stuff that's come out about Zahra."
SPECULATION ALERT
I totally read this as her trying to throw AB under the bus for sexually abusing Zahra. I mean, if what has "come out" was the murder/disposal of her body, divorce would seem to be a no-brainer, yes?
Re: the change in handwriting slant in second letter--it is abrupt, it happens right when she says (paraphrased) "You asked what I am into" and she shifts into talking about herself... IMO her identity has its own script, virtual and legible.
And in the second letter notice the abrupt subject shift at the end. "I truly have lost my whole life. So tell me a little about you..." Um... even assuming she thought she was writing to a potential "supporter"--what is he supposed to answer? "I am super into [EXTREMELY UNUSUAL] chicks who are divorced from any sense of appropriate emotional reaction in the face of overwhelming horror"?
These two letters alone are solid gold for psychologists and handwriting analysts. She's a piece of work.
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 09:09 PM
First letter: "My lawyers have asked me if I want to divorce him cause of some stuff that's come out about Zahra."
SPECULATION ALERT
I totally read this as her trying to throw AB under the bus for sexually abusing Zahra. I mean, if what has "come out" was the murder/disposal of her body, divorce would seem to be a no-brainer, yes?
Re: the change in handwriting slant in second letter--it is abrupt, it happens right when she says (paraphrased) "You asked what I am into" and she shifts into talking about herself... IMO her identity has its own script, virtual and legible.
And in the second letter notice the abrupt subject shift at the end. "I truly have lost my whole life. So tell me a little about you..." Um... even assuming she thought she was writing to a potential "supporter"--what is he supposed to answer? "I am super into [EXTREMELY UNUSUAL] chicks who are divorced from any sense of appropriate emotional reaction in the face of overwhelming horror"?
These two letters alone are solid gold for psychologists and handwriting analysts. She's a piece of work.
BBM
I ,for one, definitely have NOT ruled that possibility out. But IF something like that was happening, it was both of these sleezebags doing it together.
MOO. of course, and all that jazz
RiverRat
11-04-2010, 09:13 PM
For any local yocals... tonight on News @ (WFMY) they are doing a story on how to assess a person's personality based on handwriting. One thing I heard them say was something about double loops meaning you were a pathological liar. Unfortunately I was in the other room and didn't hear which letter they were talking about.
Hopefully, this thought is not considered as a disrespectful use of going OT...But...from the alleged kidnapping, a fake ransom note, cancer, etc...as a too long follower of JonBenet Ramsey's Murder, as you can see by what I chose to use a vital piece of evidence in my signature below, I would love to hear more on this tidbit regarding double loops!
I have read along in lurk mode since Day One and have reached the point of extreme sadness, but I will continue to follow with a broken-heart, I am more than ready for Justice for these BABIES for once! I'd Love for Zahra to be one of the Justice was Served Proper Ending...
RR
Brattigirle
11-04-2010, 10:06 PM
These letters are not worth anything to me, EB has written them knowing LE and the public would see them. I don't think she is that bright but I don't believe she is that naive either.
ynotdivein
11-04-2010, 11:02 PM
These letters are not worth anything to me, EB has written them knowing LE and the public would see them. I don't think she is that bright but I don't believe she is that naive either.
Hi Brattie! I am not sure that EB knew that LE/we would see those letters. If what I have read about Gein is correct, he will initiate contact with (unusual persons) without identifying himself. EB was inappropriately flirtatious with him, and if she knew these were going to end up for public consumption one might think she would be more circumspect?
IMO, she is neither bright nor naive. She is completely self-absorbed and believes that she can control not only her own reality but others', through charm, manipulation, seduction, lies, and distraction.
Good luck with that, EB.
bessie
11-04-2010, 11:47 PM
Hi Brattie! I am not sure that EB knew that LE/we would see those letters. If what I have read about Gein is correct, he will initiate contact with (unusual persons) without identifying himself. EB was inappropriately flirtatious with him, and if she knew these were going to end up for public consumption one might think she would be more circumspect?
IMO, she is neither bright nor naive. She is completely self-absorbed and believes that she can control not only her own reality but others', through charm, manipulation, seduction, lies, and distraction.
Good luck with that, EB.
Anyone familiar with the Kyron Horman case will be thankful LB doesn't have a cell phone (in her cell). :sick:
She and Terri share notably similar characteristics, with a heaping portion of Casey Anthony thrown in. I don't think she would've written the letters any differently if she knew they would be made public because like you said, in her mind she's got the it all under control.
LCoastMom
11-05-2010, 12:08 AM
Yes! Yes! I heard that on NG and went and got the snip from the Transcript.
Straight out to Ellie Jostad. There are other letters, are there not? And what do they reveal?
JOSTAD: Yes. That`s right, Nancy. Actually we spoke to somebody who got a letter from Elisa Baker. However, that woman says that Elisa claimed that Adam Baker was not involved.
But what`s more, she said that this was all her daughter`s, meaning Elisa Baker`s daughter`s fault. She said if the daughter had never called DFS on her, none of this would have ever happened.
I never heard that her daughter called DFS. This explain why her daughter did not want her mom release and why she was scare of her.
Again EB making excuses.:furious:
If true it also shows that her daughter did not get her mothers trait of evil.
BBM - Funny how it's always "so 'n so's" fault for reporting it, NEVER the PERP's FAULT FOR CREATING THE NEED!
Way back (GOD it feels so long ago already!) in the first week, when we were all ranting about the things the family was saying about EB abusing Zahra - I remember reading that EB's daughter "B" had called CPS and reported her, also someone from Zahra's school. I don't remember where I read this, but it felt like the first piece of good news - out of so much horror. So I will qualify this with - MOO.
JoeFromLB
11-05-2010, 12:12 AM
Hi Brattie! I am not sure that EB knew that LE/we would see those letters. If what I have read about Gein is correct, he will initiate contact with (unusual persons) without identifying himself. EB was inappropriately flirtatious with him, and if she knew these were going to end up for public consumption one might think she would be more circumspect?
IMO, she is neither bright nor naive. She is completely self-absorbed and believes that she can control not only her own reality but others', through charm, manipulation, seduction, lies, and distraction.
Good luck with that, EB.
She may even find her present predicament to be an exciting new challenge...like a game.
"I'm going to get out of this...not sure just how, but I will!"
In a sociopath's mind, the wheels are always turning. It's not her fault, someone else is to blame. Figure out how to make that work...
I don't trust ONE syllable that comes out of her mouth. JMO.
Meagain
11-05-2010, 01:08 AM
Man - I want to see these new letters. I wonder why they've not been posted anywhere?
Hopefully tomorrow. Along with an arrest of AB.
tlcya
11-05-2010, 01:11 AM
So the new letters are only known to NG I take it? No links, transcriptions, nuttin?
MountainChick
11-05-2010, 01:15 AM
So the new letters are only known to NG I take it? No links, transcriptions, nuttin?
I'm wondering the same thing tl. I just came on after being off all evening and have been relentlessly searching the threads but so far everyone just keeps mentioning their existence??? No way is NG coming out with all her stuff at once if she's the only one who has it .....lol
tlcya
11-05-2010, 01:16 AM
RSS:
:floorlaugh: Donjeta, I couldn't help it, your sense of humor is fantastic! A witch that never learned to spell, lol!
Back on topic, I believe Elisa wrote these, and this is just so sad. She just never grew up, I don't know the reasons why, but it is sad, even more so that it all came to the murder of a beautiful young girl.
Off Topic: Okay, I have been a witch but I am also a horrible speller (were it not for spellcheck I would probably be unemployed)!
On Topic: I belive she did as well
ETA: UBM SEE what I mean!
6angels
11-05-2010, 01:32 AM
So the new letters are only known to NG I take it? No links, transcriptions, nuttin?
Nancy had a bomb shell today on the show. finally!
LCoastMom
11-05-2010, 02:05 AM
Watching Nancy Grace and family members have rec'd 4 letters. Elisa claims Zahra had been ill and she found her dead. She's pointing at Adam a lot. Hopefully they will be released.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/timer55
Thank you, Donjeta -- a truly excellent analysis.
To me the most telling thing about these letters is what they lack: any regret, sadness, or the tiniest whiff of concern for Zahra. I mean, her disdain for the child is SO obvious. She couldn't even bring herself to fake it. Which to me indicates that she feels justified in hating the child.
I wonder what she means when she says that "this wouldn't have happened" if her children hadn't called DSS on her? Does she mean she wouldn't have been caught (it was the ransom note that she's in jail for) or is it that she wouldn't have beaten the child to death if she wasn't so angry about the DSS calls?
I'm leaning toward the latter.
BBM - So what she is saying is her daughter's call to CPS made Zahra so sick that she found her dead? Cause that makes all the sense in the world! NOT!!
The letters have no concern/sadness/regret because it is somehow Zahra's/Adam's/daughter's/CPS's - fault that this whole craziness has happened and Ms Fairy Dark Heart was about about to miss her favorite holiday - don't wanna be in here that long yet again cause of something [she] didn't do and [she] don't know nothing has went the way it was suppose to, not yet so far. [She] never thought it would be this way. People actually wanna kill [her]. If [she] hadn’t admitted to that stupid note [she'd] be out in 3 weeks (in time for Halloween).
I can’t think you enough for reaching out to me for what reasons you have, I am so thankful. (Because) they said he was out after them promising me for my safety he wouldn’t be let out. My lawyers get death threats every day to. I will have to go into hiding and move across the country when I get out a here. That’s scary.
I'm across the country and I can promise, she will have to go further away than here. Just like ICA it's all about ME, ME, ME....
"This is so crazy. I just wonder if Zahra hadn’t survived Cancer and been from Australia if it would truly be like this" - What kind of crazy question/ thought/ musing is that?
It breaks my heart that this is the evil that Zahra called mom, a thousand times worse, AB called EB Zahra's mother. That's scary/crazy/not fair.
LadyL
11-05-2010, 02:41 AM
why does the handwriting switch from backward to forward slant halfway through the first letter and vice versa in the second letter?
also, some of the individual letters are formed completely different in different places - take a careful look at the letter 'b' for example
MTMOM
11-05-2010, 03:53 AM
Transcripts are up from tonights Nancy Grace concerning the letters.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/04/ng.01.html
Donjeta
11-05-2010, 04:24 AM
Transcripts are up from tonights Nancy Grace concerning the letters.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/04/ng.01.html
Some relevant quotes:
We obtain exclusive letters written by stepmommy from behind jailhouse walls, saying what Adam Baker did to Zahra was, quote, "horrifying," admitting she`s a pagan worshiper, obsessed with Halloween, vampires and the dark arts, blaming Zahra for beating cancer, complaining about photos of herself seen on TV and about having to cover up her tattoos and her beloved body piercings. Stepmommy admits she wants to be a TV star and whines about missing her waterbed. In the last 24 hours, a bone believed to be Zahra`s discovered while police drain a pond for the 10-year-old`s prosthetic leg found.
Bombshell tonight. We learn of yet another jailhouse letter where stepmommy claims she, quote, "found Zahra dead," also claims she`s behind bars because of Zahra`s dad, Adam Baker. In another twist, stepmommy says Zahra had been sick again, although relatives and friends cannot confirm that illness. As that exhausting search now enters day two in the hope of finding more of Zahra`s bones, tonight, what happened to 10-year-old Zahra?
A tv star huh? Why does NG call them exclusive letters even when she's clearly talking about the letters that everybody has seen already?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I spoke to a cousin of Elisa Baker just before we went to air, and she says family members have received at least four letters from Elisa Baker behind bars. Now, in this letter, she says that she is worried about Zahra. She also says that they did not kill Zahra. And she continues to say that she is behind bars because of Adam Baker. But in another letter that was written to another family member, Elisa Baker allegedly says that Zahra Baker -- she found Zahra Baker dead and that Zahra had been sick for quite some time.
GRACE: Really? You know what? That`s exactly what I do, Dr. Bethany Marshall. When I find somebody`s been sick and passed away, I immediately throw their prosthetic limbs to the side of the road and discard their body. I put it right in the wood chipper, and it`s all said and done. That doesn`t make sense!
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, given that this mother is so shallow, so self-absorbed, so self-referential in all of these letters, I would take everything she says as a lie and as minimizing and obfuscating what really happened. When she said that Zahra was sick for a period of time, I hear she made Zahra sick for a period of time.
Agreed. We're not getting the truth from her.
GRACE: To David Lohr, crime reporter at AOLNews.com, who first uncovered the exclusive letters he shared with us. David, thank you for being with us -- David joining us tonight from Cleveland. David, what do you make of now more jailhouse letters, these saying that Zahra was sick for a long time and that they found her dead? Yet she also says, conflictingly, that she`s behind bars because of what Adam Baker did. How do you compare that to the letters that you got ahold of, David Lohr?
DAVID LOHR, AOLNEWS.COM (via telephone): Well, I think these latest letters are highly interesting. I mean, they go right along the lines of the ones that we`ve received from Serialkillersinc last week, specifically was (ph) she said, We really didn`t kill her, but what he did after the fact was kind of horrifying. So you take that with these new letters, and it`s really starting to paint a very bleak picture of the situation.
It cuts to the clips but it would be interesting to hear which bleak scenario he thinks happened.
GRACE: What about it, Peter Odom? If she found Zahra dead, why not call 911?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. She`s just floating that, Nancy, to try and get some kind of reaction. It`s a silly story, doesn`t add up with all the rest of the evidence. Where this case is headed, inevitably, is that she`s going to be pointing the finger at the husband and the husband`s going to be pointing the finger at her. There`s nowhere else it can go. The evidence against them both is mounting.
He's right, that's how it looks like based on the letters and Adam's interviews in the beginning. A will blame E and vice versa.
But back to David Lohr, crime reporter, AOLNews.com, we wouldn`t have the letters if it weren`t for him.
David, are you surprised there are more letters floating around out there?
DAVID LOHR, CRIME REPORTER, AOLNEWS.COM: No, I`m not surprised. When we talked to the police department the other day, they said they had these copies of a bunch of letters that she had sent out.
And I would also like to mention what your caller said about suicide watch. We`ve since learned that that`s not true. She is not on suicide watch. She made that up for whatever reason.
MandyLeigh
11-05-2010, 05:02 AM
Has this new letter's information been mentioned anywhere else besides the NG show? I've been searching and I haven't found a thing.
I ask because I really want to try and soak this in and except what is being said. It's just that I've been on the roller coaster ride of reported bombshell info that upset me only to find out it's not true too many times. I have no patience for that in Z's case. So anyone finds this reported anywhere else I would greatly appreciate a quick post.
If the letters are real all I see is Z laying sick in her bed terrified, knowing she needs help and that help never coming. The possibility of her dieing alone is very hard for me to take so I must know if this is real before I go down that road.
rbrnmw2
11-05-2010, 07:20 AM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html
rbrnmw2
11-05-2010, 07:24 AM
Has this new letter's information been mentioned anywhere else besides the NG show? I've been searching and I haven't found a thing.
I ask because I really want to try and soak this in and except what is being said. It's just that I've been on the roller coaster ride of reported bombshell info that upset me only to find out it's not true too many times. I have no patience for that in Z's case. So anyone finds this reported anywhere else I would greatly appreciate a quick post.
If the letters are real all I see is Z laying sick in her bed terrified, knowing she needs help and that help never coming. The possibility of her dieing alone is very hard for me to take so I must know if this is real before I go down that road.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html
krazyfingerzz
11-05-2010, 08:04 AM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html
That article is just a blog post rehashing the NG information (per the source listed at the end). The letter has yet to be printed online, and I notice that NG doesn't read or quote directly from it. Instead, all quotes last night came from the previous letters. It seems NG was informed of the contents by the family member who received the letter, but didn't have a copy, or couldn't/didn't use that copy for whatever reason.
Celt1997
11-05-2010, 08:42 AM
I can totally believe that EB is sending various letters. Notice they all say different things, as well. I think she knows what she is doing and is throwing all these different scenarios on purpose.
As the psychoanalyst said in the transcript this is nothing more than 100% obfuscation on the part of EB.
She is pandering to the people she's writing the notes to. The "sympathetic" male, she tries to flirt with, and mentions things like "getting out," "divorce", and how it's all AB's fault. Things to prop herself up for this new "suitor." To her family she tells the tale of a sick Zahra, and how she probably couldn't do anything to help, again in the face of AB's horrible treatment.
She's trying to be a chameleon, saying what she thinks those people want to hear. Meanwhile, I doubt any of it is the truth (other than AB possibly assisting in something horrible). This is probably what she's done her entire life. Her involvement with VW roleplay is proof positive of that.
LiveLaughLuv
11-05-2010, 08:51 AM
from the transcript link above...
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, I spoke to a cousin of Elisa Baker just before we went to air, and she says family members have received at least four letters from Elisa Baker behind bars. Now, in this letter, she says that she is worried about Zahra. She also says that they did not kill Zahra. And she continues to say that she is behind bars because of Adam Baker. But in another letter that was written to another family member, Elisa Baker allegedly says that Zahra Baker -- she found Zahra Baker dead and that Zahra had been sick for quite some time.
Had this been the case, that EB found her deceased, one call to authorities would have cleared things up. I don't believe this scenario one bit..Where's the remorse? Where's the sadness??
No one truly knows when this child allegedly vanished, like TM stated about Caylee....it's a cold case before it was a missing childs case and I truly believe that due to Zahra getting in touch with her biological mother, set this in motion, or her mother finally tracked her down, either way I do believe this was the incentive EB needed, jealousy might have surfaced and she feared the Bakers might've wanted to go back home...Zahra might have longed for her mother, missing her, needed some questions answered or just wanted to go home...EB put a stop to it...Plus the abuse allegations made this child miss and want her biological relatives...JMHO
Aussie mother says she tracked down Zahra just days before she went missing From: NewsCore, AAP
November 05, 2010 8:01PM
http://www.news.com.au/national/aussie-mother-says-she-tracked-down-zahra-just-days-before-she-went-missing/story-e6frfkvr-1225948521852#ixzz14PRoKWvh
This is going to come down to he said, she said nonsense. EB implicates AB, AB implicates EB...so they both go down...AB should have protected his child at all costs...if she had a reoccurance of her cancer, they should have gotten her medical care. I wonder if precious Zahra was under a doctors care? It's so sad to think what has become of this precious child, sadder yet, that those who were supposed to love and protect her failed this child miserably....Where are you Zahra??? JMHO
Where is Zahra?
technicalconfusion
11-05-2010, 09:15 AM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html
Any Joe Blow off the street can write something up, give it to associatedcontent.com have it published and get paid for it. They probably watched Nancy Grace.
Velouria
11-05-2010, 09:52 AM
Nancy had a bomb shell today on the show. finally!
You ain't kidding! :eek:
For a minute there, I thought we'd fast forwarded to 2012 - surely this had to be a sign of the apocalypse!
I know...take it to the Nancy thread.:silenced: LOL
Velouria
11-05-2010, 09:55 AM
I can totally believe that EB is sending various letters. Notice they all say different things, as well. I think she knows what she is doing and is throwing all these different scenarios on purpose.
As the psychoanalyst said in the transcript this is nothing more than 100% obfuscation on the part of EB.
She is pandering to the people she's writing the notes to. The "sympathetic" male, she tries to flirt with, and mentions things like "getting out," "divorce", and how it's all AB's fault. Things to prop herself up for this new "suitor." To her family she tells the tale of a sick Zahra, and how she probably couldn't do anything to help, again in the face of AB's horrible treatment.
She's trying to be a chameleon, saying what she thinks those people want to hear. Meanwhile, I doubt any of it is the truth (other than AB possibly assisting in something horrible). This is probably what she's done her entire life. Her involvement with VW roleplay is proof positive of that.
Excellent post, Celt - I think you nailed it!
DLT88
11-05-2010, 10:51 AM
100% agreed, I think this is what happened.
I too noticed how the word "kill" was different looking than the rest of the writing. It definately stood out to me, it almost looks bolded. I'm no expert but this just makes me feel... :sick:
That's very telling, isn't it?
Don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but another thing I remember from the graphology classes was the margins. When people tell the truth and are spontaneous they most always have a left margin that starts to go inward as you go down the page. When a letter is deceitful and the writer is calculating what they say, the margin is flush left. And just look at EB's left margin -- flush left. Liars do this because they have to keep stopping to think on what they are going to say (because they are making it up) so the hand goes all the way back to the left margin to begin writing.
If a letter contains a single lie, you can usually find it in the lines that are at the flush left margin. So the letter would have the slow right inward slant and then suddenly, you can see one line of the letter that starts way over to the left. If there is a lie in the letter, it's in that line. EB must be a chronic liar as her entire letter is all the way at the left margin.
Just my observations.
watergirl
11-05-2010, 11:15 AM
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html
Ok. Latest letter was to a cousin. Thanks rbrnmw.
Etilema
11-05-2010, 11:23 AM
Don't know where else to put this comment, but I think it could go on this thread, because EB's letters reveal or amplify her personality so much. I am thinking about a comment by the former neighbor, Kayla Rotenberry, that she suspected EB was jealous of Zahra, because of the attention AB gave to Zahra.
I really think EB might have been jealous of Zahra in general, because Zahra was everything EB was not. By her own description, EB was dark, shunned, judged, disliked. While we can all see that Zahra was shining bright, loved, admired, and appreciated. EB was angry, spiteful, violent, bitter. Everything we have seen and heard about Zahra indicates she was happy, loving, gentle, and sweet.
How EB must have resented Zahra!
All MOO.
Etilema
11-05-2010, 11:32 AM
BBM - So what she is saying is her daughter's call to CPS made Zahra so sick that she found her dead? Cause that makes all the sense in the world! NOT!!
It *could* mean that if they hadn't been worried about CPS's reaction to finding Zahra dead, they wouldn't have tried to cover it up and do whatever they did "after the fact".
Yes, it's stupid, crazy, unbelievable, and out of touch with reality. But it just might be the "logic" she had in mind?
JMO
JoeFromLB
11-05-2010, 11:40 AM
Number 1 thing I notice: TOTAL ABSENCE OF CONCERN FOR ZAHRA!
Number 2 thing I notice: No explanation for what happened to Zahra, the circumstances surrounding the ransom note, the 911 call or any of the evidence!
Number 3 thing I notice: Absence of the concept of reality
Number 4 thing I notice: Narcissistic personality disorder
Number 5 thing I notice: No remorse, sadness, regret, guilt....most people experience these things during trauma in their family(even when they have done absolutely nothing to cause the trauma). This might indicative of a psychopathic disorder.
Great post!
docwho3
11-05-2010, 01:38 PM
Something struck me about the first set of letters Elisa sent out.
When I watched a show or two that had a female voice over read of an excerpt
of one letter. It was that part where she said that 'what he did after the fact was kind
of horrifying and that she was kinda afraid of him.'
Keeping in mind her goth leanings and 'dark love' sort of expressions, I think
she might have spoken it with a secretive smile and the tone would have been one
of pleased excitement. Her saying someone scares her is possibly
a high compliment in her mind.
It is just a thought and we may never know for sure one way or the other.
Once the defense atty's get done with her it will all be different.
tsisqua
11-05-2010, 01:53 PM
Is there anything to prevent these letters from being used as evidence in court?
Kimmer
11-05-2010, 02:03 PM
I think that EB & AB may have found her dead, but only after they had done God only knows what to her...Makes it kinda hard to call LE and let them know your daughter/stepdaughter was found dead in her room if her poor little body had bruises and who knows what else on her from the horrific abuse that she had received at your hands. This is my opinion as to why the Authorities were not called when she was found dead.
DLT88
11-05-2010, 02:19 PM
Something struck me about the first set of letters Elisa sent out.
When I watched a show or two that had a female voice over read of an excerpt
of one letter. It was that part where she said that 'what he did after the fact was kind
of horrifying and that she was kinda afraid of him.'
Keeping in mind her goth leanings and 'dark love' sort of expressions, I think
she might have spoken it with a secretive smile and the tone would have been one
of pleased excitement. Her saying someone scares her is possibly
a high compliment in her mind.
It is just a thought and we may never know for sure one way or the other.
Once the defense atty's get done with her it will all be different.
I thought the same thing! She claims to LOVE the dark side and is on the same side as her demons, yet she's horrified by something she is claiming (I think maybe falsely) AB did? She claims to like stuff like that. What a hypocrite.
LCoastMom
11-05-2010, 05:48 PM
It *could* mean that if they hadn't been worried about CPS's reaction to finding Zahra dead, they wouldn't have tried to cover it up and do whatever they did "after the fact".
Yes, it's stupid, crazy, unbelievable, and out of touch with reality. But it just might be the "logic" she had in mind?
JMO
Illogical logic so to speak - sure why not!
Etilema please don't take my snarkiness personally, it is the idiot Bakers, not you I am responding to - your comment makes as much sense as any in this turned upside down world we are watching.
Because we know it is next to impossible to get CPS to act in a case of blatant abuse - therefore we know if Zahra passed from natural causes they had nothing to fear.
I'm sure this all came about "after the fact" - trouble is I am equally sure they (one or both) are responsible for the "fact" that they felt they needed to cover up. They are despicable.
mmmagique
11-06-2010, 01:49 AM
I think it means "we couldn't take her to the hospital because of the previous DSS records".
She says the "really" didn't kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.
I think she hurt her much worse than she intended, and they couldn't take her for help because people wouldn't mind their own business and she had a record with DSS so her story at the hospital wouldn't be believed.
Totally warped rationalization of course but I think that is exactly what she means. Not her fault the kid is dead, she had cancer and could have died before, she didn't mean to kill her, if no one had called DSS she could have taken her to the hospital but that is not her fault it is theirs, and what she did wasn't suppose to kill her but what AB did afterwards, THAT was horrific.
She is a sociopath.
Could "we really didn't kill her" mean something different to someone who believes in and wants to be a vampire?
Just a thought I had.
darlin gal
11-06-2010, 01:53 AM
Could "we really didn't kill her" mean something different to someone who believes in and wants to be a vampire?
Just a thought I had.
The goth and the vampire crap was just a 40 something attempt at trying to appear cool, hip and young.
Just pathetic and sad.
She wasn't a vampire/witch/goth anymore than some 12 year old twilight reader, with visions of Edward Cullen in their head. JMO
Meagain
11-06-2010, 09:51 AM
Does ANYone know who exactly is in possession of the new letters? NG at least read them. They have them. Who else? And why are they not yet published?
Sooooo want to read them.
Velouria
11-06-2010, 11:39 AM
Does ANYone know who exactly is in possession of the new letters? NG at least read them. They have them. Who else? And why are they not yet published?
Sooooo want to read them.
Meagain, NG's producer (Natisha Lance?) read the letters, but I don't think they actually have copies. The letters are still in the possession of AB's cousin(s) and have not been turned over to LE as of last night's broadcast.
The cousin's take (rather sympathetic if you ask me) on EB's letters should be available in the show transcript by now.
LiveLaughLuv
11-07-2010, 08:41 AM
LATEST IN SEARCH FOR ZAHRA: Officials talk about bone found in search of Zahra Baker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Brigida Mack - bio l email
NEWTON, N.C. (WBTV) - WBTV has discovered letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from her Catawba County jail cell.
In the handwritten letters, Baker discusses everything from Halloween being her favorite holiday to pinning the disappearance of her stepdaughter, Zahra, on her husband, Adam Baker.
Read the letters (note: these are large image files)
Letter 1: Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3
Letter 2: Page 1 | Page 2
"He knows what happened to Zahra and yet I'm the one in here at least for now," Baker writes in the letters that also have spiders drawn on them and phrases like "Vamps Rule!" and "Be part of the freak show!"
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475
Thomas Thornburg says her writing shows the words of a very troubled person.
He said, "She's living in darkness. She calls it a friend, and she can't stay there, she has to surface."
Thomas Grogran runs a Charlotte company called the Forensic Document Laboratory.
According to Grogan, "She's very much into the moment. She's not one to think ahead or regard the consequences of her actions."
It's all amout ME, ME, Me....she is truly narcisistic and only feels sorry for herself. Barely a passing word on Zahra...she now is casting blame on AB, trying to distance herself from any acts against Zahra...Oh where is this precious child???
Where is Zahra??
LiveLaughLuv
11-07-2010, 08:44 AM
Handwriting Experts Analyze Alleged Jailhouse Letters From Elisa Baker
Meghan Packer Created: 11/3/2010 11:16:37 PM Updated: 11/4/2010 11:29:45 AM
Undated -- As investigators wait to see if a recovered bone belongs to 10 year-old Zahra Baker, the missing girl's stepmother remains in jail on an obstruction of justice charge. Elisa Baker admitted to writing a bogus ransom note.
WBTV in Charlotte obtained letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from behind bars. The owners of a website, SerialKillersInk.net, said they started writing to Elisa Baker and she wrote back.
Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.
"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.
"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.
Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."
more
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57
Mountain_Kat
11-07-2010, 09:10 AM
Handwriting Experts Analyze Alleged Jailhouse Letters From Elisa Baker
Meghan Packer Created: 11/3/2010 11:16:37 PM Updated: 11/4/2010 11:29:45 AM
Undated -- As investigators wait to see if a recovered bone belongs to 10 year-old Zahra Baker, the missing girl's stepmother remains in jail on an obstruction of justice charge. Elisa Baker admitted to writing a bogus ransom note.
WBTV in Charlotte obtained letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from behind bars. The owners of a website, SerialKillersInk.net, said they started writing to Elisa Baker and she wrote back.
Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.
"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.
"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.
Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."
more
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57
BBM
I have always said this. Not just where EB is concerned, but also AB. They are childlike. And like children, they are ruled by impulse. They don't seem able or willing to think beyond those impulses toward eventual consequences. And I think you can see this clearly in this whole fire/abduction/missing scenario. It's not a well thought out plan. In fact, my personal feeling is that the plan didn't work because it was changed several times. The whole thing screams "panic!" to me. Think of it like 2 kids who have accidently set your house on fire while smoking cigarettes. They don't want Mom to know they were smoking, but now the house is on fire and they HAVE to do something. They create a story, on the fly, and hope it sticks. If some part of the story doesn't stick, they just switch gears. They make things up as they go along, in other words. There is no foresight to the plan, because they aren't concerned with the plan...they just want to make sure Mom doesn't know they were smoking. They never stopped to think that the smoking itself might lead them to where they now find themselve, and now they are frantic to try anything to cover their tracks.
MOO
Herding Cats
11-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Does anyone else seem to think the name "Gein" is...well...fortuitious isn't quite the word. Whatever the negative connotation of fortuitious would be.
Ed Gein was a very famous serial killer in Wisconsin who died in 1986 (??I think). I don't think that Gein is a popular last name (but I don't know), and for this Gein to run a webbie about murder, and to have the last name seems...well...a bit too coincidental in my world.
I am totally NOT saying Gein has anything to do with Zahra whatsoever. Just thinking that if EB knew about Ed Gein's murderous history, and incredibly gruesome crimes, that this contact may not be such a random outreach as we think; rather, it may be a part of a darker picture of EB's mind, e.g. she now has a connection to a very brutal, infamous serial killer.
(JFYI, part of the character Jame Gumb, the killer in Silence of the Lambs, was taken from Gein's life - Gein tried to make clothes of skin...)
Just thinking aloud here. Ever since I read the name Gein, this connection has been bothering me. Any thoughts? Or am I reading waaaaaaaaaaay too much into this?
Best-
Herding Cats
WhyaDuck?
11-07-2010, 03:20 PM
Does anyone else seem to think the name "Gein" is...well...fortuitious isn't quite the word. Whatever the negative connotation of fortuitious would be.
Ed Gein was a very famous serial killer in Wisconsin who died in 1986 (??I think). I don't think that Gein is a popular last name (but I don't know), and for this Gein to run a webbie about murder, and to have the last name seems...well...a bit too coincidental in my world.
I am totally NOT saying Gein has anything to do with Zahra whatsoever. Just thinking that if EB knew about Ed Gein's murderous history, and incredibly gruesome crimes, that this contact may not be such a random outreach as we think; rather, it may be a part of a darker picture of EB's mind, e.g. she now has a connection to a very brutal, infamous serial killer.
(JFYI, part of the character Jame Gumb, the killer in Silence of the Lambs, was taken from Gein's life - Gein tried to make clothes of skin...)
Just thinking aloud here. Ever since I read the name Gein, this connection has been bothering me. Any thoughts? Or am I reading waaaaaaaaaaay too much into this?
Best-
Herding Cats
IIRC, the site owners are up-front about it being a pseudonym, chosen for that reason for their business. I will see if I can find the link.
ETA: Here's the post I got that from, with the link they got the info from: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)
ETA2: Makes me wonder how many people out there have changed their names from Gein, only to have these folks change their name to it. It's a strange world.
Etilema
11-07-2010, 03:33 PM
Handwriting Experts Analyze Alleged Jailhouse Letters From Elisa Baker
Meghan Packer Created: 11/3/2010 11:16:37 PM Updated: 11/4/2010 11:29:45 AM
Undated -- As investigators wait to see if a recovered bone belongs to 10 year-old Zahra Baker, the missing girl's stepmother remains in jail on an obstruction of justice charge. Elisa Baker admitted to writing a bogus ransom note.
WBTV in Charlotte obtained letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from behind bars. The owners of a website, SerialKillersInk.net, said they started writing to Elisa Baker and she wrote back.
Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.
"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.
"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.
Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."
more
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57
Of course, we don't need to analyze the handwriting to know these things...the *content* of the letters is enough, even if they had been typed.
JMO
Donjeta
11-07-2010, 04:27 PM
It's not like we even needed the letters to know that she is unreliable and has issues with anger ... her criminal record was quite enough. She's in jail for unreliable checks, threats and an unreliable ransom note, so, well, duh. And if you were unfamiliar with her criminal record, any article where members of her family said she is a habitual liar and threatens and abuses people would have said the same thing.
docwho3
11-08-2010, 12:46 AM
'own world full of hypocrites'
Anyone notice anything odd about that phrase?
I would have expected 'Whole world' moreso than 'own world'.
Donjeta
11-08-2010, 05:30 AM
I think it might be "Our world".
catnron
11-08-2010, 05:56 AM
LATEST IN SEARCH FOR ZAHRA: Officials talk about bone found in search of Zahra Baker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Brigida Mack - bio l email
NEWTON, N.C. (WBTV) - WBTV has discovered letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from her Catawba County jail cell.
In the handwritten letters, Baker discusses everything from Halloween being her favorite holiday to pinning the disappearance of her stepdaughter, Zahra, on her husband, Adam Baker.
Read the letters (note: these are large image files)
Letter 1: Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3
Letter 2: Page 1 | Page 2
"He knows what happened to Zahra and yet I'm the one in here at least for now," Baker writes in the letters that also have spiders drawn on them and phrases like "Vamps Rule!" and "Be part of the freak show!"
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475
It's all amout ME, ME, Me....she is truly narcisistic and only feels sorry for herself. Barely a passing word on Zahra...she now is casting blame on AB, trying to distance herself from any acts against Zahra...Oh where is this precious child???
Where is Zahra??
I just don't understand why the police did not read the letters from EB before they were mailed out. It makes no logic at all. They would have had so much evidence yet they let it slip right thur the hands of the police. Full watch needs to be on her. Lets just hope the phone call are recorded from the jail and jail visits.
Donjeta
11-08-2010, 06:28 AM
Interesting variation in the comments by the police.
Gein went on to say the police know about the letters.
"They said that they have copies of all the letters that are coming and outgoing and that they know they're legit letters," she said. "So they don't doubt it and neither do we."
Police told WBTV it's possible the letters are real, but that they don't have them.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475
The case has taken another bizarre twist with Eric Gein, the proprietor of a US website with a history of communicating with prison inmates, releasing what he says are letters written by Zahra's stepmother, Elisa Baker, from jail.
Hickory police say the letters appear to match Elisa's handwriting, but are yet to publicly confirm if they are authentic.
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world/police-draining-pond-in-zahra-baker-search-as-elisas-letters-point-to-dad-adam/story-e6frfkyi-1225947586590#ixzz14gnNojzM
The Hickory Police Department couldn't confirm whether the letters are authentic. Deputy Chief Clyde Deal said Tuesday night that much of the information in the letters has been widely reported in media accounts and isn't new to investigators.
Deal said officers plan to compare the letters with other samples of Elisa Baker's writing. The letters will become part of the investigation, Deal said, but he's unsure how important they are.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/02/1806641/alleged-letters-elisa-baker-zahra.html
nursebeeme
11-08-2010, 08:06 AM
There are new revelations to report in the search for 10-year-old Zahra Baker. The owners of the crime memorabilia website "Serialkillersink.net" posted a third letter that they say is from Zahra's stepmother Elisa Baker.
http://triad.news14.com/content/top_stories/632480/website-posts-third-letter-allegedly-from-elisa-baker
did we know this???? it is new story on 14news
eta... sure enough... looks like there are three of them now:
http://serialkillersink.net/skistore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=903
grayjay
11-08-2010, 08:46 AM
I can understand how LE would hold the content of inmates letters somehow at arm's length. On the one hand, they could contain a real clue. OTOH, they are likely to contain rumors, lies and false clues that waste time because the writer is not held to their word in any way. Then too, the inmate is aware their remarks are seen by LE, so the content could be intended to create questions for this intermediate audience, even more than for the addressee.
Peliman
11-08-2010, 09:09 AM
There are new revelations to report in the search for 10-year-old Zahra Baker. The owners of the crime memorabilia website "Serialkillersink.net" posted a third letter that they say is from Zahra's stepmother Elisa Baker.
http://triad.news14.com/content/top_stories/632480/website-posts-third-letter-allegedly-from-elisa-baker
did we know this???? it is new story on 14news
eta... sure enough... looks like there are three of them now:
http://serialkillersink.net/skistore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=903
:waitasec: Amazing she can't even spell her name right. It's signed Elesa not Elisa.
LiveLaughLuv
11-08-2010, 10:02 AM
:waitasec: Amazing she can't even spell her name right. It's signed Elesa not Elisa.
This is probably the correct way her name is written on her BC??? possibly???
She has so many aliases maybe she's got them all confused...she's not reliable according to her handwritting analysis...JMHO
It appears to me, these letters are self serving. She's trying to distance herself from her alleged participation in Zahra's demise. Trying to place full blame on AB not her. It won't work out for her, IMO...the "We really didn't kill Zahra" statement is putting herself right there, otherwise why say WE? She must be aware of these letters being made public, I'm sure her attorney's advised against her writting to this sites owner but she does as she pleases..she is a narcisist, IMO...malignant narcisis...JMHO
She now claims she was the abused one, she had the black eyes...She just rambles but these letters are all about ME, ME, ME...her thoughts are all over the place....she won't be able to dig herself out of this. As a matter of fact, she's digging herself deeper in this...JMHO
What fails me is, LE claims she is cooperating, so why haven't they found Zahra???
Where is Zahra?
Dear Prudence
11-08-2010, 10:10 AM
:waitasec: Amazing she can't even spell her name right. It's signed Elesa not Elisa.
She spelled it E'lesa on her myspace page.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Zahra%20Baker%20%20-NC-/Myspaceelisaprofile.jpg
Peliman
11-08-2010, 10:16 AM
She spelled it E'lesa on her myspace page.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Zahra%20Baker%20%20-NC-/Myspaceelisaprofile.jpg
I know she has several aliases with Elesa being one of them, court dockets have her name Elisa. Looks to me she's still living in fantasyland.
TxLady2
11-08-2010, 10:31 AM
I just don't understand why the police did not read the letters from EB before they were mailed out. It makes no logic at all. They would have had so much evidence yet they let it slip right thur the hands of the police. Full watch needs to be on her. Lets just hope the phone call are recorded from the jail and jail visits.
How do we know they didn't read them? They might have made copies of them, hopefully they did. Are you suggesting that LE should have held these letters and prevented them being mailed out? I don't believe they can do that legally, but I could be wrong.
As for "evidence", the only thing I see is her placing blame on Adam and not admitting her own culpability in whatever happened to Zahra. They do give an insight into her character and personality, however, which will possibly be used in court, IF it ever goes to trial. She did say she was on suicide watch, but we don't know if that is still in place.
Velouria
11-08-2010, 10:59 AM
She spelled it E'lesa on her myspace page.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Zahra%20Baker%20%20-NC-/Myspaceelisaprofile.jpg
IMO, the varied spellings are very indicative of EB's pre-teen-level mentality. I went through the same phase in 7th grade.:rolleyes: The trying on different hair colors, the doodles with her signature, writing "Vamps Rule!", etc., all marks of youth in search of an identity. Even the letters of ICA seem mature in comparison.
Viewing Elisa/Elesa as the young girl she envisions, it's easy to see her viewing Zahra as competition and EB's resulting lack of motherly instinct. I see EB as a classic borderline personality, and frankly I wonder how her other kids made it into adulthood!
bellyup
11-08-2010, 11:09 AM
Me thinks the third letter has sold. Let's hope it's to a media outlet who is going to publish the content of that one as well.
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 11:19 AM
IMO, the varied spellings are very indicative of EB's pre-teen-level mentality. I went through the same phase in 7th grade.:rolleyes: The trying on different hair colors, the doodles with her signature, writing "Vamps Rule!", etc., all marks of youth in search of an identity. Even the letters of ICA seem mature in comparison.
Viewing Elisa/Elesa as the young girl she envisions, it's easy to see her viewing Zahra as competition and EB's resulting lack of motherly instinct. I see EB as a classic borderline personality, and frankly I wonder how her other kids made it into adulthood!
SLIGHTLY O/T
Exactly! My real name is Katherine, and my close family members have always called me "Kathy". I never identified with that name...just wasn't me. When I was in 6th grade I went through a phase of trying to change it. "Kathi", "Kate", "Katie", "Rin" , etc.,etc.. When I was in my late teens, friends started calling me "Kat" and that's the name that has stuck through the years.
BACK On/T
I see Elisa's name changes the same way that you do. In my view, she's still trying to find herself and her place in the world. AT 42 YEARS OLD! Big time arrested development going on here, imo.
westsidefox64
11-08-2010, 11:40 AM
Im curious as to if the 3rd letter will be published? I hope so. I would be very interested in knowing if it was written before or after the aledged letters to the cousin. If after if it will show her telling different stories to the different people. I personally think she will tell whomever what she thinks will make each individual view her the way she wants them to see her. Hope that makes sense. JMO
nursebeeme
11-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Im curious as to if the 3rd letter will be published? I hope so. I would be very interested in knowing if it was written before or after the aledged letters to the cousin. If after if it will show her telling different stories to the different people. I personally think she will tell whomever what she thinks will make each individual view her the way she wants them to see her. Hope that makes sense. JMO
looks like Nancy Grace may be talking about the third letter tonight (and also will have cousin on)
http://www.facebook.com/NancyGraceHLN
Tests results any minute could prove a bone found belongs to missing 10-year-old girl Zahra. And do more shocking jailhouse letters from her stepmom reveal Zahra is dead?
tehcloser
11-08-2010, 12:07 PM
How do we know they didn't read them? They might have made copies of them, hopefully they did. Are you suggesting that LE should have held these letters and prevented them being mailed out? I don't believe they can do that legally, but I could be wrong.
As for "evidence", the only thing I see is her placing blame on Adam and not admitting her own culpability in whatever happened to Zahra. They do give an insight into her character and personality, however, which will possibly be used in court, IF it ever goes to trial. She did say she was on suicide watch, but we don't know if that is still in place.
LE has copies of the letters, the "lady " that owns the website said that in one of the first articles that came out about the letters. I posted the link, way back in the general threads. I think it might have been in the "Hickory Daily News".
TrialAddict
11-08-2010, 12:43 PM
LE has copies of the letters, the "lady " that owns the website said that in one of the first articles that came out about the letters. I posted the link, way back in the general threads. I think it might have been in the "Hickory Daily News".
Did LE copy them or did they give LE a copy? I heard someone say LE did NOT read or copy her letter's back when she sent them to this guy, but said they will from now on. They don't read every letter inmates send and or receive.
tehcloser
11-08-2010, 12:49 PM
Did LE copy them or did they give LE a copy? I heard someone say LE did NOT read or copy her letter's back when she sent them to this guy, but said they will from now on. They don't read every letter inmates send and or receive.
IIRC, she didn't say either way, only that yes, they had copies. Let me try to find linkage.
"They said that they have copies of all the letters that are coming and outgoing and that they know they're legit letters," she said. "So they don't doubt it and neither do we."
Police told WBTV it's possible the letters are real, but that they don't have them.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475
Well there ya go, yes they have them, no they don't. Just like everything in this case, the answer is........WHO KNOWS. lol.
krimekat
11-08-2010, 12:53 PM
SLIGHTLY O/T
Exactly! My real name is Kath[leen], and my close family members have always called me "Kathy". I never identified with that name...just wasn't me. When I was in 6th grade I went through a phase of trying to change it. "Kathi", "Kate", "Katie", etc.,etc.. When I was in my late teens, friends started calling me "Kat" and that's the name that has stuck through the years.
Same here!!!
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 01:15 PM
Same here!!!
Names matter. They are how we view ourselves, or how we intend others to view us (at least in some small measure anyway). I still have a fit when family calls me "Kathy". I'm not Kathy, I'm Kat, and have been Kat in my own mind since I was 13. The fact that Elisa Baker is 42 years old, and still hasn't come to land on a name that she feels comfortable identifying with speaks VOLUMES to me.
westsidefox64
11-08-2010, 01:26 PM
Names matter. They are how we view ourselves, or how we intend others to view us (at least in some small measure anyway). I still have a fit when family calls me "Kathy". I'm not Kathy, I'm Kat, and have been Kat in my own mind since I was 13. The fact that Elisa Baker is 42 years old, and still hasn't come to land on a name that she feels comfortable identifying with speaks VOLUMES to me.
BBM JMO It seems to me when shes writing to Damien she wants to be goth vamp therefore ELESA, when she wants sympathy shes sweet innocent boohoo ELISA. its almost like a split personality.
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 02:38 PM
(Nobody throw eggs at me for saying this.)
In some ways, I empathize with EB. Probably because of my own background growing up in abuse, neglect and dysfunction. I don't know all the facts of what has brought EB to the person we're looking at today, but I suspect there are many many things that contributed it.
I don't neccesarily view her as a monster, but rather as a VERY disturbed person who has probably done something monstrous. And perhaps this is why I don't have any problem believing that there were times when she was actually good to Zahra.
JMO
tehcloser
11-08-2010, 02:55 PM
A word to the wise. Don't let yourselves empathize with any of the players. Only the victim. When we here start identifying with one of the perps, we can drastically color the crime. And in the end, that is an injustice to the victim. We have to remind ourselves to sleuth as LE would. Leave your personal feelings out of it. I am afraid there is one case on here in which we all had a hand in making a quagmire. We all let it get to personal. I'm not talking to the locals....you are there, it's different for you. It happened in your back yard, it is personal for you. I hope the mods let this stand. I just think it needed to be said, especially the longer this goes on.
burbqueen
11-08-2010, 02:56 PM
i'm an amatuer handwriting sleuth and her handwriting shows a slant to the left when she writing about certain things. thats telling. left slant usually means negative thoughts or emotions. Also her handwriting shows a selfish, childish person, who has an overall negative outlook on life. She has the emotional make up of a 15 year old girl. Her handwriting also shows someone with a person in love with fantasy. Also, a huge ego and needy. I think she is very clingy, jealous type person. What is also shocking is that I think she may have been sexually abused as a child or maybe in her early teens. How can I put this? Her handwriting kinda points towards physical stimulus when it comes to abusing or hurting others. A thrill or rush??
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 03:08 PM
A word to the wise. Don't let yourselves empathize with any of the players. Only the victim. When we here start identifying with one of the perps, we can drastically color the crime. And in the end, that is an injustice to the victim. We have to remind ourselves to sleuth as LE would. Leave your personal feelings out of it. I am afraid there is one case on here in which we all had a hand in making a quagmire. We all let it get to personal. I'm not talking to the locals....you are there, it's different for you. It happened in your back yard, it is personal for you. I hope the mods let this stand. I just think it needed to be said, especially the longer this goes on.
That's not a problem what-so-ever for me, Teh. I'm perfectly capable of separating fact from intuition/feeling. :)
MandyLeigh
11-08-2010, 03:34 PM
I don't understand why the site published the other letters but has this third one listed as Unpublished. Is it because they are trying to get more money or just get it sold? I notice the other letters have not sold.
Curious Me
11-08-2010, 03:46 PM
I know she has several aliases with Elesa being one of them, court dockets have her name Elisa. Looks to me she's still living in fantasyland.
She's trying to stay in the fantasy, but eventually she might just start feeling foolish. I would think, her age is going to hit her like a ton of bricks being in jail and all the discomforts. How long will she be able to cling to her poser Goth style? I pray she doesn't start getting all this support from her ghoulish crowd. (remembering KC's fan mail) Oh please, no.
salvarenga
11-08-2010, 04:53 PM
Has the 3rd letter been published in it's entirety anywhere?
kwmred
11-08-2010, 05:19 PM
looks like Nancy Grace may be talking about the third letter tonight (and also will have cousin on)
http://www.facebook.com/NancyGraceHLN
Tests results any minute could prove a bone found belongs to missing 10-year-old girl Zahra. And do more shocking jailhouse letters from her stepmom reveal Zahra is dead?
I hope someone calls in and asks the cousin why after having no contact with EB for 2 years, they decided to go visit her in jail. And, in defending her publicly have now inserted themselves into the limelight.
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 06:32 PM
I hope someone calls in and asks the cousin why after having no contact with EB for 2 years, they decided to go visit her in jail. And, in defending her publicly have now inserted themselves into the limelight.
I don't see the cousin as defending EB so much as just trying to get to the truth of the matter. I do, however, suspect that this cousin is pretty damned ticked off that AB isn't also in jail. And if that's the case, I agree with her.
JMO
Patty G
11-08-2010, 06:40 PM
At WS, we can't go with a "source" telling what they may have heard as it comes forth as a "rumor". We usually link to the info from the media, or perhaps through our local members living in Hickory are vetted through the owner of the forum.
impatientredhead
11-08-2010, 06:52 PM
A word to the wise. Don't let yourselves empathize with any of the players. Only the victim. When we here start identifying with one of the perps, we can drastically color the crime. And in the end, that is an injustice to the victim. We have to remind ourselves to sleuth as LE would. Leave your personal feelings out of it. I am afraid there is one case on here in which we all had a hand in making a quagmire. We all let it get to personal. I'm not talking to the locals....you are there, it's different for you. It happened in your back yard, it is personal for you. I hope the mods let this stand. I just think it needed to be said, especially the longer this goes on.
I understand your point and it is well taken.
But (you knew that but was coming didn't ya? lol)...
I think empathy with the alleged perps can be a good thing.
It takes a real level of honesty to see that you see yourself in someone that has done something awful, or that you know someone very much like that person. Empathizing with them does not mean condoning it.
But the insights that those who do empathize can provide can give us insights into how those people think, what their motivation might have been, what they might have done afterwards. All good things when sleuthing.
I for one empathized with Cindy Anthony far far into the case because she reminded me so much of my mentally ill/drug addicted/borderline personality mother. I could see some of her efforts for the "loving" intent they were based in even if they were horribly misled and had horrible outcomes.
Being that she reminded me SOOOO much of my own mother I empathized with Casey and how sneaky, manipulative, and what a liar she had become. That empathy ended very quickly when Casey became an abusive mother, but I very personally understood how she got to be the young woman she was up to that point.
But they are not black and white all good or all bad players. And understanding that EB probably had some very kind moments and may have even loved Z to the degree she was capable of loving someone can help explain how others perceived what was going on in Z's home.
Does that make sense?
tehcloser
11-08-2010, 07:07 PM
It makes total sense, but, lol, those of you that have been around here awhile know exactly what I mean. This place gets ugly when folks start digging there heel's in about the way they feel about a perp. I hope we can avoid that with this case. Personal experience is wonderful, we all have it, it just may not fit in at all with the perps of a crime. All I'm saying is try to look at it without letting it become personal....not pointing at anyone in particular, just it was shared with me when I got here, and I think it's worth passing on.
westsidefox64
11-08-2010, 07:08 PM
I understand your point and it is well taken.
But (you knew that but was coming didn't ya? lol)...
I think empathy with the alleged perps can be a good thing.
It takes a real level of honesty to see that you see yourself in someone that has done something awful, or that you know someone very much like that person. Empathizing with them does not mean condoning it.
But the insights that those who do empathize can provide can give us insights into how those people think, what their motivation might have been, what they might have done afterwards. All good things when sleuthing.
I for one empathized with Cindy Anthony far far into the case because she reminded me so much of my mentally ill/drug addicted/borderline personality mother. I could see some of her efforts for the "loving" intent they were based in even if they were horribly misled and had horrible outcomes.
Being that she reminded me SOOOO much of my own mother I empathized with Casey and how sneaky, manipulative, and what a liar she had become. That empathy ended very quickly when Casey became an abusive mother, but I very personally understood how she got to be the young woman she was up to that point.
But they are not black and white all good or all bad players. And understanding that EB probably had some very kind moments and may have even loved Z to the degree she was capable of loving someone can help explain how others perceived what was going on in Z's home.
Does that make sense?
ITA IMO if everyone thought exactly the same we would never get anywhere. So many of the posts I see make my chain of thought shift. I myself try to look at everything as if I was on a jury trying to decide if the information is enough to convict. I love that someone else comes on putting themselves in the shoes of the accused, or the person that is seeing things in the eyes of the victim, the next is trying to put themselves in the shoes of LE. All these DIFFERENT opinions get us closer to the truth. But again that is JMO
ynotdivein
11-08-2010, 07:17 PM
i'm an amatuer handwriting sleuth and her handwriting shows a slant to the left when she writing about certain things. thats telling. left slant usually means negative thoughts or emotions. Also her handwriting shows a selfish, childish person, who has an overall negative outlook on life. She has the emotional make up of a 15 year old girl. Her handwriting also shows someone with a person in love with fantasy. Also, a huge ego and needy. I think she is very clingy, jealous type person. What is also shocking is that I think she may have been sexually abused as a child or maybe in her early teens. How can I put this? Her handwriting kinda points towards physical stimulus when it comes to abusing or hurting others. A thrill or rush??
burb, thank you for the analysis--do you mind sharing some of the "tricks of the trade" that led you to these conclusions? Like, the huge ego and needy parts? Handwriting analysis is a subject I have long been interested in but it hasn't yet made it up to my "darn it I am just gonna dive in and learn all about it" stage yet and I would appreciate any further explanations.
(Taught h.s. for quite a while and I do agree that her writing reminds me of maybe the freshman/sophomore range, so 13-15, but would like to be able to link specific characteristics to what my experience is telling me, KWIM?)
TIA :wave:
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 07:20 PM
I understand your point and it is well taken.
But (you knew that but was coming didn't ya? lol)...
I think empathy with the alleged perps can be a good thing.
It takes a real level of honesty to see that you see yourself in someone that has done something awful, or that you know someone very much like that person. Empathizing with them does not mean condoning it.
But the insights that those who do empathize can provide can give us insights into how those people think, what their motivation might have been, what they might have done afterwards. All good things when sleuthing.
I for one empathized with Cindy Anthony far far into the case because she reminded me so much of my mentally ill/drug addicted/borderline personality mother. I could see some of her efforts for the "loving" intent they were based in even if they were horribly misled and had horrible outcomes.
Being that she reminded me SOOOO much of my own mother I empathized with Casey and how sneaky, manipulative, and what a liar she had become. That empathy ended very quickly when Casey became an abusive mother, but I very personally understood how she got to be the young woman she was up to that point.
But they are not black and white all good or all bad players. And understanding that EB probably had some very kind moments and may have even loved Z to the degree she was capable of loving someone can help explain how others perceived what was going on in Z's home.
Does that make sense?
Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".
JMO
tehcloser
11-08-2010, 07:29 PM
Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".
JMO
Next time I try to say something, I'm just going to have you do it for me. :crazy:
westsidefox64
11-08-2010, 07:32 PM
Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".
JMO
JMO I love this! Its my post of the day!!!
LadyL
11-08-2010, 07:32 PM
There are new revelations to report in the search for 10-year-old Zahra Baker. The owners of the crime memorabilia website "Serialkillersink.net" posted a third letter that they say is from Zahra's stepmother Elisa Baker.
http://triad.news14.com/content/top_stories/632480/website-posts-third-letter-allegedly-from-elisa-baker
did we know this???? it is new story on 14news
eta... sure enough... looks like there are three of them now:
http://serialkillersink.net/skistore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=903
they're selling it?!
how 'bout they just hand it over to LE
and wth would buy it anyway?
I'm so disgusted right now
tehcloser
11-08-2010, 07:37 PM
I just don't believe there is any way that (a)LE does not know about these letters as she is sending them, (b) have copies of them and are (c) letting them go public without having a motive behind doing so.
Reannan
11-08-2010, 07:44 PM
Just when you think you are at the bottom of the rabbit hole, this case gets stranger, and we start sliding farther down! A third letter? Really??
rbrnmw2
11-08-2010, 07:50 PM
IMO, the varied spellings are very indicative of EB's pre-teen-level mentality. I went through the same phase in 7th grade.:rolleyes: The trying on different hair colors, the doodles with her signature, writing "Vamps Rule!", etc., all marks of youth in search of an identity. Even the letters of ICA seem mature in comparison.
Viewing Elisa/Elesa as the young girl she envisions, it's easy to see her viewing Zahra as competition and EB's resulting lack of motherly instinct. I see EB as a classic borderline personality, and frankly I wonder how her other kids made it into adulthood!
Yeah I experimented with my first name Robin I went by Bobi when I was 15 She seems to perpetually be in a state of teenage rebellion, seems she enjoys the shock value like a teenager would by dyeing their hair and wearing black lipstick
Mountain_Kat
11-08-2010, 07:52 PM
I'm not here to pass judgement. I'm here to try to piece together where this child is, even if that is just the remains of her. I would welcome any information from anyone, provided that info can be verified.
JMO
WhyaDuck?
11-08-2010, 07:53 PM
At WS, we can't go with a "source" telling what they may have heard as it comes forth as a "rumor". We usually link to the info from the media, or perhaps through our local members living in Hickory are vetted through the owner of the forum.
Bumping.
daisy7
11-08-2010, 08:07 PM
This thread is closed for review.
daisy7
11-08-2010, 08:45 PM
WS does not allow rumors. If you have inside information, you need to be verified by Tricia (owner of Websleuths) that you are in fact an insider. You can e-mail Tricia at tgrif@xmission.com to be verified as an insider to Zahra's case.
If you are not verified as an insider and post info that MSM has not confirmed, this will be considered to be a rumor and will be deleted.
Carry on!
impatientredhead
11-08-2010, 09:35 PM
Makes absolutely perfect sense, Red. And I agree with you. But I also see what Teh is saying. I think it's a matter of balance, really. Work within your own personal experience, if you are able, but never lose sight of the facts. And always be willing to remove yourself from your own personal experience if the facts don't support your "suspicions".
JMO
I agree with Teh point as well (and of course yours!).
To me it goes with the "be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain falls out" philosophy.
I have been very clear that I think EB and AB are equally responsible for this situation and should be held equally accountable. That "fact" does server as evidence to me that they have no redeeming qualities and have never committed an act of kindness in their lives. And the existence of those redeeming qualities and acts of kindness in no way serve to negate the evidence of this horrendous situation.
Clue Hopper
11-08-2010, 10:19 PM
Just a thought here....With this third letter, it has not been published. The reason that was given was because it could not be verified.....I thought the others were not verified either.
I'm just wondering if this one isn't published, because it doesn't have a shock factor to it. Maybe it is somewhat of the same letter rewritten, because EB didn't get a response back, and thought maybe he didn't get the others?
I can't see the guy faking the letters. He is in it for the money.
dar107
11-08-2010, 10:36 PM
Alleged 3rd, unpublished letter from Elisa Baker.
http://serialkillersink.net/skistore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=903
This is what I can read from the link:
So where is my dark knight. (can't read a spot here) you havn't disappeared too. It takes forever for these letters to get through the mail I know.I figure they read everything I write so much for privacy huh. Well if you been watching the news you know some truth of whats going on. And I say some litely.I am helping the cops try and get (rest of sentence blanked out) The cops promised if I would help (more blanked out and thats all you can see of the letter)
Appears to be dated Oct.29. Doodles "Hello my darkest friend" at the top.
eleni777
11-09-2010, 09:44 AM
I just don't believe there is any way that (a)LE does not know about these letters as she is sending them, (b) have copies of them and are (c) letting them go public without having a motive behind doing so.
Plus, it was made clear that she's a pathological liar..Now suddenly she's going to tell the truth...Pffft I highly doubt that.
salvarenga
11-09-2010, 09:52 AM
Alleged 3rd, unpublished letter from Elisa Baker.
http://serialkillersink.net/skistore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=903
This is what I can read from the link:
So where is my dark knight. (can't read a spot here) you havn't disappeared too. It takes forever for these letters to get through the mail I know.I figure they read everything I write so much for privacy huh. Well if you been watching the news you know some truth of whats going on. And I say some litely.I am helping the cops try and get (rest of sentence blanked out) The cops promised if I would help (more blanked out and thats all you can see of the letter)
Appears to be dated Oct.29. Doodles "Hello my darkest friend" at the top.
Where are you seeing all of this b/c the link provided above does not show even half of this text?
westsidefox64
11-09-2010, 10:09 AM
Where are you seeing all of this b/c the link provided above does not show even half of this text?
The amount of the letter they showed on this link has changed since I looked at it yesterday. I saw exactly what was stated the first time I looked at it. JMO
Patty G
11-09-2010, 10:17 AM
When I looked at the website mid afternoon on Monday, the only thing that I spotted yesteday is what is being seen today.
Patty G
11-09-2010, 10:30 AM
The amount of the letter they showed on this link has changed since I looked at it yesterday. I saw exactly what was stated the first time I looked at it. JMO
By chance, did you get a screen-shot of the letter?
tehcloser
11-09-2010, 10:33 AM
When I looked at the website mid afternoon on Monday, the only thing that I spotted yesteday is what is being seen today.
http://serialkillersink.net/Imag32424e24.jpg
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1306&pictureid=11315
WhyaDuck?
11-09-2010, 10:41 AM
http://serialkillersink.net/Imag32424e24.jpg
That link no longer works, and may be connected to unsubstantiated rumours.
tehcloser
11-09-2010, 10:42 AM
That link no longer works, and may be connected to unsubstantiated rumours.
Duck, I just clicked it and went back to it to get snip, it has their watermark on it. And their website.
daisy7
11-09-2010, 10:45 AM
Duck, I just clicked it and went back to it to get snip, it has their watermark on it. And their website.
Thank you, teh, for the screen shot. The link isn't working for me, either, though it was working yesterday. :confused:
WhyaDuck?
11-09-2010, 10:46 AM
Duck, I just clicked it and went back to it to get snip, it has their watermark on it. And their website.
Thank you, teh! whew.
I am glad we can get over that now. :D
(ETA: FWIW, that link never worked for me... maybe it's a region thing? In any case, I'm glad teh got a screenshot to clear it up.)
tehcloser
11-09-2010, 10:48 AM
Lol, links......sometimes they make you crazy. I figure they decided they had put to much of it up and changed it, but for whatever reason I was able to get back to it, and now WS has it.
westsidefox64
11-09-2010, 11:05 AM
By chance, did you get a screen-shot of the letter?
Im pretty much computer stupid. I have no idea how to do a screen shot. Not even sure if I can do it with slow dial up.
tehcloser
11-09-2010, 11:07 AM
Im pretty much computer stupid. I have no idea how to do a screen shot. Not even sure if I can do it with slow dial up.
West, wasn't the snip I posted what you were talking about?
NoeticSoul
11-09-2010, 11:10 AM
West, wasn't the snip I posted what you were talking about?
I saw that too and SO wanted to buy the letter, but cannot bring myself to line this website's pockets with blood money..
I also noticed that it was originally $200 and is now $250.
westsidefox64
11-09-2010, 11:31 AM
West, wasn't the snip I posted what you were talking about?
Yes it was> Thanks so much. I was fishing for pointers LOL
dar107
11-09-2010, 02:37 PM
http://serialkillersink.net/Imag32424e24.jpg
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1306&pictureid=11315
Thanks for providing the screen shot. The link now says product could not be found
westsidefox64
11-09-2010, 02:53 PM
Thanks for providing the screen shot. The link now says
wonder if that means its been sold? Hopefully it will be put into the media!
wenwe4
11-09-2010, 02:59 PM
Thanks for providing the screen shot. The link now says
I wonder if LE got ahold of this website owner and seized the original letter by warrent or something.
Clue Hopper
11-09-2010, 03:18 PM
I wonder if LE got ahold of this website owner and seized the original letter by warrent or something.
It is still there for sale. It has more of it shown but with white dots all over it.
http://serialkillersink.net/skistore/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=910
NoeticSoul
11-15-2010, 04:28 PM
http://www.wtma.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=118&itemid=29598232
--snipped-
Zahra Baker’s Stepmom Says She ‘Ain’t the Monster’
“”I was trying to save us both, but why should I? He is letting everyone destroy me,” Elisa Baker wrote referring to Zahra’s father, Adam Baker.”
“In the latest letter, obtained exclusively by ABC News, Baker said she “ain’t the monster people are saying.”
She also said she was frustrated by her lawyer’s refusal to allow her to do TV interview requests. “I want a chance to be heard damn it. This is my life and everyone is playing with and I have no control over what is said or done,” she wrote.”
Bumping news
full article
http://abcnews.go.com/US/zahra-baker-exclusive-elisa-baker-jailhouse-letter/story?id=12145895
JoeFromLB
11-15-2010, 04:36 PM
To sum up EB's letters: "Me, Myself, and I."
salvarenga
11-15-2010, 04:37 PM
Full article on ABC News main website:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/zahra-baker-exclusive-elisa-baker-jailhouse-letter/story?id=12145895&page=1
Snippets from letter:
"I was trying to save us both, but why should I? He is letting everyone destroy me," Elisa Baker wrote referring to Zahra's father, Adam Baker.
In the latest letter, obtained exclusively by ABC News, Baker said she "ain't the monster people are saying."
She also said she was frustrated by her lawyer's refusal to allow her to do TV interview requests. "I want a chance to be heard damn it. This is my life and everyone is playing with and I have no control over what is said or done," she wrote.
She sarcastically commented on the negative media attention she's received. "Maybe I should just change my name to Evil, what do you think? LOL."
In the letter, written to crime memorabilia dealer Eric Gein, Baker says she will be living alone when she gets out of prison. In three rambling pages, she never mentions Zahra or any concern for her stepdaughter, who was still a missing person when the letter was written on Oct. 29. She also doesn't cite any remorse for the girl's disappearance.
"My family will never believe Adam has done what he has," the letter says. "I am helping the cops try and get my soon-to-be ex-husband in here. The cops promised if I would help them with what I know, they would keep him locked up for my safety... I was trying to save us both, but why should I? He is letting everyone destroy me."
In the letter Elisa said she feels like a "freak in a carnival" whenever she's in view of the media's cameras and is concerned about being attacked while in prison.
"[But it's] not like I am not able to defend my freaking self," she writes.
The letter is signed, "Dark Wishes, Elesa." She claims in the letter she had changed her name from Elisa to Elesa.
dar107
11-15-2010, 04:48 PM
Interesting, I noticed a few bits that were originally blanked out on the Serial Killer website.
e.g. "my soon-to-be ex-husband in here." , and that last bit about locking him up, etc..
Just wondering if LE is letting that out now for a reason. I wonder if LE filled in the blanks or do you think the website owner at the site took it upon himself....I doubt that.
ynotdivein
11-15-2010, 04:58 PM
Interesting, I noticed a few bits that were originally blanked out on the Serial Killer website.
e.g. "my soon-to-be ex-husband in here." , and that last bit about locking him up, etc..
Just wondering if LE is letting that out now for a reason. I wonder if LE filled in the blanks or do you think the website owner at the site took it upon himself....I doubt that.
Good catch dar!
Hopefully Mr. Gein has seen the wisdom of working collaboratively with LE, if LE has asked him to. If they are saying "un-redact," he better be asking "how much?"
Velouria
11-15-2010, 05:00 PM
In the letter, written to crime memorabilia dealer Eric Gein, Baker says she will be living alone when she gets out of prison.
Wow, I knew the <unusual person> was delusional, but does she actually believe she's going to be getting out of prison?
Mrs G Norris
11-15-2010, 05:14 PM
Full article on ABC News main website:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/zahra-baker-exclusive-elisa-baker-jailhouse-letter/story?id=12145895&page=1
*snipped for focus
and is concerned about being attacked while in prison.
Yep, she hs good reason to be worried about that, I have had dark thoughts about vengeance myself since this case started. Stay safe Elesa.
:furious:
epiphany
11-15-2010, 05:24 PM
Quote from EB's capital punishment attorney---"Ms. Baker unfortunately believed this man's representations that he only wanted to offer friendship and support during her incarceration. Much of the information in these letters is in response to specific questions posed by this man.
No doubt about it. Attorney acknowledging she's the author.
westsidefox64
11-15-2010, 05:54 PM
Am I missing it or is the actual NOT there to read?
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