View Full Version : AB's involvement?
tlcya
11-03-2010, 11:45 PM
So. It has been accused of derailing the Zahra thread but how important is this question now?
Just saying. What did AB know and when did he know it because for the love of all things sacred and holy - he knows it now - right?
Scamperoo
11-04-2010, 12:07 AM
I thought he always knew, he knew she was mistreated and did nothing, he knew she needed regular checkups I bet she never got them, she needed to go to school, he knew she didn't. He knew everything and he just didn't care, if he had cared like a normal father Zahra would be alive, he was her protector and caretaker, he failed miserably and rather than face that he disposed of her like garbage, then lied to cover it up. JMO
tlcya
11-04-2010, 12:15 AM
I think he disconnected from Zahra in that know anything about her, her likes, dislikes, cares, woes, fears, etc. long before EB. I think his mom swooped in and handled things alot for AB.
That is MOO, who elses?
I think it is his MO. To not be there for bio mom. To allolw mom to swoop in and take over (type A, couldn't help herself). To fall under the sway of EB, for EB to fall into?him. To allow (force) Zahra completely to/upon EB. Wonder if the reality matched the alternate, online reality for EB.
I think these are two stunted people. stunted emotionally. they just hit a wall. it is so sad really. and in their alternate reality they were perfect.
Where does Zahra fit anywhere in there?
captdj
11-04-2010, 12:19 AM
He lived in the house with EB and ZB.... of course he knew/knows
thinking he played a big part into what happened to Zahra also... JMO
6angels
11-04-2010, 12:27 AM
I voted AB was involved in the death and cover up of Zahra. If he knew of the child abuse that was happaning to his daughter and did NOTHING then yes he is 100% involved.
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 12:29 AM
So. It has been accused of derailing the Zahra thread but how important is this question now?
Just saying. What did AB know and when did he know it because for the love of all things sacred and holy - he knows it now - right?
I've always been convinced that AB helped in the cleanup. But in just the last few days, after I gained some missing pieces of the puzzle, I've now come to believe he was involved in both the murder and the cover-up. I still need to clear one or two areas up in my mind before I'm willing to share, though.
MandyLeigh
11-04-2010, 12:29 AM
I agree in AB's involvement.
I also agree with his detachment to Z. He had to have known this little girl was being mistreated, not being schooled and her leg not properly cared for. He did nothing. I am disgusted with his choices in ripping Zahra from her family and medical community to go live in a different country with some woman he didn't know that long.
I do not agree that he was so abused by EB it changed him. No way. Or that everything done to Zahra was done while he was at work and EB covered it all up herself. JMHO She is not in good enough physical shape to do all of it herself.
I have my theories about what parts he played in this but I fear they are not even close to horrific as the truth is.
tlcya
11-04-2010, 12:30 AM
AB is compltely guilty of checking out and as he as Zahra's father, a literal piece of him, and he just completely failed in his duty to love, care about, raise her up, anything but haned her off to the most convenient and powerful woman in his life.
He is guilt :(
everyoneneedsavoice
11-04-2010, 12:44 AM
IMO, AB is "more" complicit than she, because HE is the reason she was with EB. So..i selected "both" equally complicit, but truly feel as if AB killed her...when he brought and kept her in that environment.
essies
11-04-2010, 12:45 AM
The missing poster on the back of AB's truck states
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother; who is now in jail and is a suspect in her disappearance.”
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/03/crowd-taunts-baker-evicted-ar-505700/
Is that new? Was that on Z's poster from the beginning or has it been put there recently to defect blame from AB?:waitasec:
My feeling is that AB is def complicit in the crime-but to what extent I'm not sure yet. If he knew Zahra was "abused daily" and did nothing to get her out of that situation then he is equally responsible for her death! IMO and all that!!:furious:
tlcya
11-04-2010, 01:02 AM
Please note that I set the poll so that anyone can add their own answer on the poll. IF one provided does not match your anserr, please feel free to create your own answer.
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 01:06 AM
The missing poster on the back of AB's truck states
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother; who is now in jail and is a suspect in her disappearance.”
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/03/crowd-taunts-baker-evicted-ar-505700/
Is that new? Was that on Z's poster from the beginning or has it been put there recently to defect blame from AB?:waitasec:
My feeling is that AB is def complicit in the crime-but to what extent I'm not sure yet. If he knew Zahra was "abused daily" and did nothing to get her out of that situation then he is equally responsible for her death! IMO and all that!!:furious:
I was thinking just the same thing about the poster and that it said she was "abused daily by her mother". IMO that sounds like an admission that he is and was well aware.
I need more information before I could say HOW he was involved but I do not
doubt that he was and that he not some abused, unintelligent, submissive man who was railroaded into a crime. JMO
I think they are both equally complicit. I believe that LE has their ducks in a row and are fully prepared for them both to throw one another under the bus when it comes down to it. Hopefully, the evidence will help sort the truth out between these two.
MandyLeigh
11-04-2010, 01:08 AM
Let me get this straight. He is driving a truck around with
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother; who is now in jail and is a suspect in her disappearance.”
written on the back?? How unbelievable stupid! :doh: He was with her daily. Does he really think that we can't put two and two together? He is announcing to the world that he watched his daughter be abused by EB on a daily basis and did nothing to stop her. IMO
:behind::behind::behind::behind:
ETA: There is just no responsibility with this man. He is as deluded as EB is. He seems to think he is going to get away with this by pointing fingers at EB while completely excusing the fact that he is her father and lived under the same roof.
There was no one in that house who cared at all about this little girl. No wonder she was so upset when she had to get rid of her cats. They probably showed her more love and devotion then her own father. IMO
docwho3
11-04-2010, 01:22 AM
When I posted on the topic of whether Adam was involved I was mostly thinking along
the lines of how that would affect the outcome of where Zahra was to be finally found.
The extent of his involvement in the past abuse of Zahra might serve as a pattern to look
to what sort of lengths he might be willing to go in the final crime itself and in disposing
of the remains.
Was he a follower? Was he a leader? Was he an equal in the relationship with his wife?
Did they both plan out how to dispose of her and what to say to LE and the media aterwards?
Or did she dictate & he merely follow his wife's orders? Or did he give orders that they both followed?
Knowing which minds were doing the planning might give insight into what measures might be taken
in disposing of Zahra's body and thus point us in the right direction.
I thought,at the time, perhaps Adam was more involved than it might appear at first
glance and so we perhaps shouldn't only look at just what she-who-must-be-obeyed
would have planned and where only she would have chosen for the body to be hidden.
I got the feeling from some earlier posts that some thought she might have somehow managed
to have committed the crime and it's cover up essentially without his knowledge
but once I began to explore his possible involvement this seemed very unlikely.
revampz
11-04-2010, 02:26 AM
I voted that he wasnt involved in her death but was involved in the disposal and coverup.
He knew what was going on and turned a blind eye...I think once he got to the US and away from the extended family who obviously helped out a lot, he got a new life and zahra dropped in his priorites...
re the grandmum taking care of zahra while in OZ, I read an article here that KB was bringing zahra up at first and it was she and her husband that moved to giru with zahra......he followed later.......
yep i think once his mummy wasnt around, the little girl fell down the list.
Lera213
11-04-2010, 02:57 AM
AB has a disconnect with everything around him! He makes me think of "Dexter"
Lera213
11-04-2010, 02:59 AM
Could be that EB/AB landlord when he evicted him, well he could have learned something from LE about AB that we don't know.
simlyme
11-04-2010, 03:01 AM
Let me get this straight. He is driving a truck around with
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother; who is now in jail and is a suspect in her disappearance.”
written on the back?? How unbelievable stupid! :doh: He was with her daily. Does he really think that we can't put two and two together? He is announcing to the world that he watched his daughter be abused by EB on a daily basis and did nothing to stop her. IMO
:behind::behind::behind::behind:
ETA: There is just no responsibility with this man. He is as deluded as EB is. He seems to think he is going to get away with this by pointing fingers at EB while completely excusing the fact that he is her father and lived under the same roof.
There was no one in that house who cared at all about this little girl. No wonder she was so upset when she had to get rid of her cats. They probably showed her more love and devotion then her own father. IMO
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother, Im getting to think they speak a different language, its on the same line as "we REALLY didnt kill her" NO?
I cant imagine living a life like that, maybe they speak FORKED TONGUES:furious:
Suthrnqt
11-04-2010, 03:17 AM
I voted that they were equally complicit. Even if he never laid a hand on Zahra, he knew exactly what she was going through on a daily basis. If he sat by and did nothing while EB abused Zahra, then he is == guilty. And he definitely helped in disposing of the body, maybe under the direction of EB, but he was involved. MOO!!
These two (AB/EB) were meant to be together. They are both under-developed emotionally. I look for AB to be arrested any time now. At the very least, isn't he guilty of filing a false police report by reporting Zahra missing??? Why isn't he in jail??
docwho3
11-04-2010, 04:36 AM
. . .These two (AB/EB) were meant to be together. They are both under-developed emotionally. . .
You bring something to mind that I had meant to mention eventually but I have been
sort of mulling it over for a while first.
I have felt that these two seemed to be like epoxy ingredients. Apart they might
not be too dangerous but when put together they seem to have become deadly to those around them.
TxLady2
11-04-2010, 05:45 AM
Personally, I am not going to speculate on the degree of his involvement of Zahra's death or the disposal of her body. It pains and sickens me to think a father could be guilty of doing some of the things I've read on these boards. I know everyone is just speculating but I cannot go there. I do have to wonder if he was aware of his wife's participation in the "dark side."
I will just wait and see what comes out as the case moves along.
Canadian4
11-04-2010, 07:03 AM
I voted for AB contributing through negligence and helped after the fact. IMO he was the type of parent who said "ya got a roof over your head, food to eat and a place to sleep, be grateful and leave me alone".
NancyA
11-04-2010, 07:04 AM
Personally, I am not going to speculate on the degree of his involvement of Zahra's death or the disposal of her body. It pains and sickens me to think a father could be guilty of doing some of the things I've read on these boards. I know everyone is just speculating but I cannot go there. I do have to wonder if he was aware of his wife's participation in the "dark side."
I will just wait and see what comes out as the case moves along.
There are areas I'd prefer not to explore further too, some of the speculation I read last night upset me so much...another reason I'm extremely grateful for this new forum where the topics are split up, I don't have to go there.
I think he was totally complicit in the disposal and cover up to save his own skin. I don't believe that he was actively involved in abusing her but he was guilty of neglect in that he was 'wilfully' ignorant of what what going on with Zahra before she died, ie he knew but chose not to know and did nothing to help her. Agree that her whole life he's laid the burden of her care and welfare on whoever happened to be handy, his mother and then EB.
passionflower
11-04-2010, 07:28 AM
AB/EB both murdered Zahra and equally planned and did the cover up and disposal.
IMO
passionflower
11-04-2010, 08:08 AM
Thankyou! for Zahra's own forum!!
My big question is why isn't AB in jail.
There are old crimes still to charge him with.
He's just as guilty as EB in everything.
Reannan
11-04-2010, 08:39 AM
I am really surprised that LE has allowed AB to remain out of jail. If for no other reason, I would think they would want him in jail for his own protection. He has to be one of the most hated men in Hickory right now.
Yellow Rose
11-04-2010, 08:54 AM
"There was no one in that house who cared at all about this little girl. No wonder she was so upset when she had to get rid of her cats. They probably showed her more love and devotion then her own father"
I must have missed this part about her cats?! So she was completely isolated from everything she knew and loved. Her pets, her friends, her home in Austrailia, her school....absolutely everything.
Celt1997
11-04-2010, 09:17 AM
Thankyou! for Zahra's own forum!!
My big question is why isn't AB in jail.
There are old crimes still to charge him with.
He's just as guilty as EB in everything.
Aren't AB's only charges related to his monetary crimes? This case has me going in circles, so it's tough to keep things straight. I'm sure things are tightening around him, but it would appear his previous crimes aren't severe enough to hold him. They'll have him soon enough, and then he won't be going anywhere.
Wise Old Owl
11-04-2010, 09:44 AM
The video the other day of AB - when he went back to the house to be evicted and get his things. Well, that video IMHO clearly showed his involvement. His body language, facial expressions (what I could see of them) - screamed guilt. The jig was up. He went in there and saw what LE did and what they took and he knows. He knows it all.
He hung his head, shuffled his feet, wouldn't look at anyone (including the people that were with him), shoulder slumped - he was done. IMO
I do believe he will be back behind bars (and for quite a long time) - its just LE is taking their time, doing it right and dotting all i's and crossing all t's before charging anyone. That clock starts ticking once charges are handed down and LE wants to be ready for it.
Waiting is hard - but patience pays.
reasypeasy
11-04-2010, 10:00 AM
My theories about AB's complicity, just my own opinions.
I think he knew that EB treated Z very badly, but didn't care so long as he had the relationship with EB.
I think he knew Z was being neglected but didn't care because he thought taking care of her was EB's job as the stepmother and he felt that he wasn't about to get blamed because of that choice to offload responsibility.
I think he probably gave tacit approval for something EB did that killed Zahra. Sort of she said "I'm going in there and I'm going to..." and he said "whatever" or "sure"?
I think that both AB and EB didn't want to deal after the death and they put Zahra on her bed and left her there and she got all stinky and decomped and soupy and flyblown and so on faster than they dreamed possible. Maybe AB didn't want to deal because he doesn't think dealing with kid stuff and cleaning stuff is something he does, so he did his usual business of ignoring it and hoping a woman would deal with it. EB was probably in a self pitying depression and could barely do anything.
I think they shifted out to lay low in the car away from the horrible smell.
I think he got angrier and angrier with EB about how inconvenient it all was and hwo he might get in trouble, probably got a bit angry with his deceased daughter too because you know how it can be when someone doesn't want to blame themselves even a bit, and went back in there and dealt with the problem in as gruesome a manner as possible to scare the **** out of EB and have a petty revenge on her for how much work and hassle and risk this was all going to be.
I think that either he pressured a depressed EB into doing some of the work, or that part way through she could see this would all work out and stopped being depressed and started helping him.
I think after the work of getting everything "dealt with" was done, AB and EB reconciled to each other and stopped arguing and started bonding over their crime and how they were going to get away with it. The crime became a shared secret against the world and the crazy plan with the fire and ransom note was hatched between them.
grayjay
11-04-2010, 10:23 AM
If AB contributed at all to the quote, “Zahra has been abused daily by her mother," and I think he did, it pretty much proves he knew what was going on and at the very least let it happen, which makes him equally responsible. Bottom line: He holds his head down now because he's GUILTY.
LiveLaughLuv
11-04-2010, 10:32 AM
Personally, I am not going to speculate on the degree of his involvement of Zahra's death or the disposal of her body. It pains and sickens me to think a father could be guilty of doing some of the things I've read on these boards. I know everyone is just speculating but I cannot go there. I do have to wonder if he was aware of his wife's participation in the "dark side."
I will just wait and see what comes out as the case moves along.
I feel the same way, TxLady...
I wrote in:
Other: Not sure how AB is involved. Can't condemn him for Zahra's demise, as yet...I need more information on his whereabouts..
I can't imagine he wasn't aware that EB was abusing his little angel. Maybe EB can talk her way out of things. She seems to be a malignant narcisis, it's all about HER!
I can't imagine he'd look the other way after all this childs been through but then again, we've seen time and time again how a parent becomes "love" struck or "lust" struck and continues to be in denial. I'd like to know more about AB's work, his hours, his days off and so on.
I did find it odd, after this fire, he wouldn't immediately go in and check on Zahra to make sure she was okay. Knowing the sirens must have been blaring, why wouldn't he check to see that Zahra wasn't afraid or to just make sure she's fine and there, in her room. Seems to me, EB banished her to her room, only coming out to eat, would not be something to just overlook. Why did he trust EB as he did? Was he in love/lust or just blind...JMHO
Where is Zahra?
78gidget78
11-04-2010, 10:32 AM
i voted equally complicit. today my thoughts seem to be running a bit wild and i'm just not sure what to think. all the allegations and conflicting info flying around... trying to organize my thoughts here this morning. upon first reading about zhara my thoughts were definitely that they were both responsible. now firstst of all, i *HATE* both of them, and that is definitely not something i say with any regularity, but just this morning i'm wondering if maybe, just maybe, EB may be less involved than i originally thought?? i just don't know, seeing the family photos she had posted on her myspace and such just gave me pause i think. combined with the alleged use of the word "horrifying" in the letters made me think a little harder. i do believe she is narcississitic and a lousy excuse for a mother and human being (MOO), but this morning, if i had a little sliding guilt meter here with AB on one side and EB on the other it would be sliding more toward the middle or AB's side. this idea could totally change within the next few minutes of course as i change my mind often hahaha! JMO, MOO etc etc etc
Linda7NJ
11-04-2010, 10:44 AM
Could be that EB/AB landlord when he evicted him, well he could have learned something from LE about AB that we don't know.
He probably heard the 911 call!
I was ready to leap through the tv and beat him to death myself!
passionflower
11-04-2010, 10:47 AM
Aren't AB's only charges related to his monetary crimes? This case has me going in circles, so it's tough to keep things straight. I'm sure things are tightening around him, but it would appear his previous crimes aren't severe enough to hold him. They'll have him soon enough, and then he won't be going anywhere.
what about the running relative off the road and having a weapon???
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 10:47 AM
You bring something to mind that I had meant to mention eventually but I have been
sort of mulling it over for a while first.
I have felt that these two seemed to be like epoxy ingredients. Apart they might
not be too dangerous but when put together they seem to have become deadly to those around them.
That is exactly where I've ended up after putting the pieces (most of them anyway) together.
If I ask myself the "whys" of this case, I come down with some very interesting bits of info:
1). We know that Biomum was looking for Zahra (if we are to believe her, anyway).
2). We know that DSS was recently looking into the parents (per family), and that DSS had looked into the family in the past (per neighbors, school officials, etc).
3). We know there was a mysterious "home inspection" looming on the horizon.
4). We know that money was a huge issue for these 2 (rents not paid, checks bounced, rental property sold illegally, etc.)
5). We know that both AB/EB (and others) were deeply involved in virtual world game play. (If you want to get a better understanding of how deep, you'll have to sleuth that yourself.)
6). We know that Elisa recieved 10,000 dollars from someone overseas, with payment spread out over a period of a year (per family members).
I can fit all that info, except 5 and 6, into my existing theory. And I'm pretty close to fitting 5 into the theory as well, but am trying to gain missing pieces of the puzzle. But anyway, those are the existing bits of information that I consider relevent to understand why AB/EB might have had reason to want Zahra to disappear. If there were another crime being committed here, one that went on for some time and was about to be found out, I can definitely see BOTH EB and AB panicking and doing the unthinkable.
(I still have serious questions about whether or not #6 actually belongs on this list. It may, or it may not. But it is still worthy of speculation,imo, so it stays on me list)
JMO
Celt1997
11-04-2010, 10:52 AM
what about the running relative off the road and having a weapon???
Forgot about that one. Still, though, something similar happened in our County and, since the weapon wasn't fired, they set bail and he stayed out until his trial and subsequent incarceration.
Perhaps in NC the same thing applies? :waitasec:
passionflower
11-04-2010, 10:54 AM
O/T...........how proud is mum (KB) that she bailed this creature out now?????
If he gets wacked .........mum (KB) will blame USA and not herself.
AB should be in jail if only for protection, he is a hated man.
If anything happens to him, it will only be EB's story.......
I want BOTH of them
to go down for Zahra to have justice!
What did they do to that little one????
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 11:45 AM
I went with equally complicit.
I think EB delivered what ended up being the fatal blow.
What was suppose to be her typical beating and abuse, but was a critical injury.
"We didn't really kill her"
I think AB was aware his daughter was injured and did not seek medical care because of the investigation and charges it would bring, and she died as a result hours or days later.
It is a common scenario in abuse cases.
I think he is was intimately involved in the disposal, clean up, staging, and cover up. And continues to be.
Failure to seek medical care for your own protection equals equally complicit to me.
JoeFromLB
11-04-2010, 11:45 AM
That is exactly where I've ended up after putting the pieces (most of them anyway) together.
If I ask myself the "whys" of this case, I come down with some very interesting bits of info:
1). We know that Biomum was looking for Zahra (if we are to believe her, anyway).
2). We know that DSS was recently looking into the parents (per family), and that DSS had looked into the family in the past (per neighbors, school officials, etc).
3). We know there was a mysterious "home inspection" looming on the horizon.
4). We know that money was a huge issue for these 2 (rents not paid, checks bounced, rental property sold illegally, etc.)
5). We know that both AB/EB (and others) were deeply involved in virtual world game play. (If you want to get a better understanding of how deep, you'll have to sleuth that yourself.)
6). We know that Elisa recieved 10,000 dollars from someone overseas, with payment spread out over a period of a year (per family members).
I can fit all that info, except 5 and 6, into my existing theory. And I'm pretty close to fitting 5 into the theory as well, but am trying to gain missing pieces of the puzzle. But anyway, those are the existing bits of information that I consider relevent to understand why AB/EB might have had reason to want Zahra to disappear. If there were another crime being committed here, one that went on for some time and was about to be found out, I can definitely see BOTH EB and AB panicking and doing the unthinkable.
(I still have serious questions about whether or not #6 actually belongs on this list. It may, or it may not. But it is still worthy of speculation,imo, so it stays on me list)
JMO
I can't stop thinking about that $10,000. That's a very large amount of money for someone to send to a person they've never met. I know we're not supposed to talk about the "London" connection, but that figure of $10,000 doesn't sit right with me, and lends itself to all sorts of dark speculation.
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 12:25 PM
I can't stop thinking about that $10,000. That's a very large amount of money for someone to send to a person they've never met. I know we're not supposed to talk about the "London" connection, but that figure of $10,000 doesn't sit right with me, and lends itself to all sorts of dark speculation.
(JMO)
It may or it may not, Joe. EB and AB met on IMVU, and were (from my understanding) heavily involved in the area of virtual role play. You earn game credits on IMVU in any number of ways, and those can be sold for cash via paypal account. Now, I do not know if London Dude was an IMVU member, but my speculation is that he was. And IF he was, it's very possible that the money he sent EB was for purchase of her game credits. Yes, 10k is an extraordinary amount of money, and that gives me pause. Then again, you can get so caught up in this role playing thing that it becomes an overwhelming addiction. Perhaps LD is guilty of nothing more than having a serious gaming addiction. Hard to say.
I do think EB and AB's involvement in virtual role play might possibly be relevent to this case, though. So that is why I mentioned it under this discussion topic. It is, afterall, how they met.
kalekona
11-04-2010, 01:26 PM
what about the running relative off the road and having a weapon???
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/30/warrants-served-adam-baker-while-jail-ar-495586/
He was served while in jail on the charges from the other county all of his charges carry a set amount of bail, which he has met.
Soulmagent
11-04-2010, 01:40 PM
I think Adam was completely aware his daughter was suffering from an injury. And he helped protect his wife by not getting Zahra treatment and hoping she would get better.
IMO he left her laying in her bed in pain for a while a good healthy while. I am thinking like 5-6 days. He might not have thought she was going to die but he knew she was hurt badly.
Also the sign in the truck window tells us the cause of death doesnt it?
JoeFromLB
11-04-2010, 02:06 PM
Is it just me, or is this kind of creepy?
Any ideas on who sells this shirt? I searched around and couldn't find anything like it.
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 02:14 PM
Is it just me, or is this kind of creepy?
Any ideas on who sells this shirt? I searched around and couldn't find anything like it.
looks like a MMA shirt to me, like the affliction or tapout lines, but not theirs, but a MMA fight shirt
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 02:16 PM
Forgot about that one. Still, though, something similar happened in our County and, since the weapon wasn't fired, they set bail and he stayed out until his trial and subsequent incarceration.
Perhaps in NC the same thing applies? :waitasec:
In this case the charge of AWDW is from him running BB off the road with the car. In NC anyway, the car is the weapon. I don't believe there was any firearm. Just wanted to clarify that in case there was some confusion.
MandyLeigh
11-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Wouldn't the weapon charge be the tasers? I thought a taser was considered a weapon too.
“He (Adam Baker) chased me and my fiancée. He literally tried to run us off the road twice,” Tyler wrote in the complaint accompanying the warrant. “He got in the opposite lane, swerved at the driver’s side and we had to swerve to keep from getting hit, then he passed us and slammed his brakes. We had to slam our brakes and still almost hit him.”
The couple went home and gave Baker the money she was owed, but she demanded more, they said. She and Adam threatened the couple with Tasers, according to the arrest warrant
http://www2.morganton.com/news/2010/nov/01/abuse-turned-zahras-life-nightmare-here-ar-500680/
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Wouldn't the weapon charge be the tasers? I thought a taser was considered a weapon too.
http://www2.morganton.com/news/2010/nov/01/abuse-turned-zahras-life-nightmare-here-ar-500680/
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/16/money-and-legal-trouble-follow-zahras-parents-ar-462500/
Yes absolutely they would be considered a weapon hence the charge of communicating threats. I think that is where the teasers came into play but the actual ASSAULT that occurred was for running them off the road with the car. This article is a little more detailed on what actually happened.
Suthrnqt
11-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Personally, I am not going to speculate on the degree of his involvement of Zahra's death or the disposal of her body. It pains and sickens me to think a father could be guilty of doing some of the things I've read on these boards. I know everyone is just speculating but I cannot go there. I do have to wonder if he was aware of his wife's participation in the "dark side."
I will just wait and see what comes out as the case moves along.
BBM
Yes he was aware of her "dark side"....that is how they met in the first place. They both participated in virtual world role play. There is a thread dedicated to this in the PL.
Allusonz
11-04-2010, 02:29 PM
Personally, I am not going to speculate on the degree of his involvement of Zahra's death or the disposal of her body. It pains and sickens me to think a father could be guilty of doing some of the things I've read on these boards. I know everyone is just speculating but I cannot go there. I do have to wonder if he was aware of his wife's participation in the "dark side."
I will just wait and see what comes out as the case moves along.
Like you I am going to sit on this one for a few reasons. One being that it was stated he had been away working. The most profound statement was from his landlord when he said not to jump to conclusions about AB. I believe this gentleman knows more than what has been disclosed and would think LE has interviewed him extensively :crazy:
myzzy
11-04-2010, 02:34 PM
Like you I am going to sit on this one for a few reasons. One being that it was stated he had been away working. The most profound statement was from his landlord when he said not to jump to conclusions about AB. I believe this gentleman knows more than what has been disclosed and would think LE has interviewed him extensively :crazy:
Did he publicly come out and say that about AB?
Allusonz
11-04-2010, 02:50 PM
here is the link with his exact words that i was referring to hope it helps :)
http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/nov/03/crowd-taunts-baker-evicted-ar-505700/
She looks like the type that wore the pants in the family and he looks like the type that would allow it. He seems kind of off not in the crazy violent type of way but almost a slow kind of way and she seems the type to pick that kind of man. The mattress thing has been on my mind because of what he said on the 911 call in regards to puberty. I was wondering if she came to him and said there is blood on the mattress explaining it away to puberty, if you know what I mean and he bought it hook line and sinker. The staying in her room thing seems like something she pulled over on him as well. I just dont know that he did anything other than trusted that his partner was taking care of his child while he brought home the bacon. It will be interesting to see what comes forth until then I'm not in on him being guilty of killing or disposing. I dont think he has the intelligence to combat such a manipulative, overbearing, evil personality that is EB.
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 03:39 PM
here is the link with his exact words that i was referring to hope it helps :)
http://www2.journalnow.com/news/2010/nov/03/crowd-taunts-baker-evicted-ar-505700/
I think most of us here agree with the landlord when he says, " It’s still America. It’s still innocent until proven guilty." I'm not for one minute suggesting that AB be locked up for something that has yet to be proven, but that sure doesn't mean I don't have my suspicions about his involvement.
JMO
dar107
11-04-2010, 03:55 PM
I don't know, maybe AB was just totally in EB's control, maybe she was hauling off and smacking him upside the head whenever he wasn't obedient, maybe she kept him tied up and drugged when he wasn't away working, so that there was no way he could have possibly noticed anything amiss with his 10 yr old daughter. Gee, didn't even notice it was September and she was not going to school, didn't ever notice a bruise, didn't wonder if she ( a two time cancer survivor with a prosthetic leg) had been to see a doctor lately, didn't notice any changes or sadness or depression in his little girl. Didn't think it a little odd that she was going through puberty at 10, didn't think, gee why is my daughter who always has a smile , nothing upsets her ( AB's Words, Link: http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25405526/index.html) so broody these days?
Yes the above is said dripping with sarcasm.
None of that makes him a cold blooded man who was deeply involved in the murder, accidental death, or disposal like garbage of his daughter's body. Need much more info to convict him on that and IMO it is going to happen, much more info implicating what exactly his involvement was.
At the very very least his disgraceful neglect for his little's girls well being, for her health and happiness is what led to the events that have unfolded for little Zarha. All she had was her DADDY, she must of loved him very much, and he let her down so very badly.
Sorry for my rant. I voted Adam and Elisa were both equally complicit. But the person who was ultimately responsible to keep her safe, cared for and happy was her father. What a miserable job you did AB. I hope you rot in hell.
NancyA
11-04-2010, 03:58 PM
i don't know, maybe ab was just totally in eb's control, maybe she was hauling off and smacking him upside the head whenever he wasn't obedient, maybe she kept him tied up and drugged when he wasn't away working, so that there was no way he could have possibly noticed anything amiss with his 10 yr old daughter. Gee, didn't even notice it was september and she was not going to school, didn't ever notice a bruise, didn't wonder if she ( a two time cancer survivor with a prosthetic leg) had been to see a doctor lately, didn't notice any changes or sadness or depression in his little girl. Didn't think it a little odd that she was going through puberty at 10, didn't think, gee why is my daughter who always has a smile , nothing upsets her ( ab's words, link: http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25405526/index.html) so broody these days?
Yes the above is said dripping with sarcasm.
None of that makes him a cold blooded man who was deeply involved in the murder, accidental death, or disposal like garbage of his daughter's body. Need much more info to convict him on that and imo it is going to happen, much more info implicating what exactly his involvement was.
At the very very least his disgraceful neglect for his little's girls well being, for her health and happiness is what led to the events that have unfolded for little zarha. All she had was her daddy, she must of loved him very much, and he let her down so very badly.
Sorry for my rant. I voted adam and elisa were both equally complicit. But the person who was ultimately responsible to keep her safe, cared for and happy was her father. What a miserable job you did ab. I hope you rot in hell.
bravo!!
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 04:10 PM
I don't know, maybe AB was just totally in EB's control, maybe she was hauling off and smacking him upside the head whenever he wasn't obedient, maybe she kept him tied up and drugged when he wasn't away working, so that there was no way he could have possibly noticed anything amiss with his 10 yr old daughter. Gee, didn't even notice it was September and she was not going to school, didn't ever notice a bruise, didn't wonder if she ( a two time cancer survivor with a prosthetic leg) had been to see a doctor lately, didn't notice any changes or sadness or depression in his little girl. Didn't think it a little odd that she was going through puberty at 10, didn't think, gee why is my daughter who always has a smile , nothing upsets her ( AB's Words, Link: http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25405526/index.html) so broody these days?
Yes the above is said dripping with sarcasm.
None of that makes him a cold blooded man who was deeply involved in the murder, accidental death, or disposal like garbage of his daughter's body. Need much more info to convict him on that and IMO it is going to happen, much more info implicating what exactly his involvement was.
At the very very least his disgraceful neglect for his little's girls well being, for her health and happiness is what led to the events that have unfolded for little Zarha. All she had was her DADDY, she must of loved him very much, and he let her down so very badly.
Sorry for my rant. I voted Adam and Elisa were both equally complicit. But the person who was ultimately responsible to keep her safe, cared for and happy was her father. What a miserable job you did AB. I hope you rot in hell.
Thank you for this!
kalekona
11-04-2010, 04:20 PM
The reporter on the ground at the search just reported on HLN that LE NOTIFIED AB when the bone was found.
So he is still being treated as the father of the victim rather than a suspect.
Things that make you go ummmmmmmmmmmmm.
MountainChick
11-04-2010, 04:26 PM
The reporter on the ground at the search just reported on HLN that LE NOTIFIED AB when the bone was found.
So he is still being treated as the father of the victim rather than a suspect.
Things that make you go ummmmmmmmmmmmm.
TY......very interesting. Definitely an "ummmmmmmm" moment.
peg4x4
11-04-2010, 04:32 PM
I don't know where to post this,but the reason the landlord evicted AB is--the house was uninhabitabul.. LE tore all the plumbing out of that house. No toliet,no running water,no kitchen,no walls,and some of the foundation may have been cut away!
Both of them killed Zahra,both disposed of her.
BTW a 10 year old girl in Mexico had a baby last week.. Don't know how old the father is,but he is a minor also..
Sometimes they are just very careful before they arrest.. as it should be. His time may come.
tehcloser
11-04-2010, 04:38 PM
The reporter on the ground at the search just reported on HLN that LE NOTIFIED AB when the bone was found.
So he is still being treated as the father of the victim rather than a suspect.
Things that make you go ummmmmmmmmmmmm.
They have to notify next of kin, they even told ICA when they found Caylee, really means nothing. Plus I would imagine they wanted to see his reaction.
Allusonz
11-04-2010, 04:41 PM
Please dont get me wrong, AB must of known what was going on, I simply have alot of questions. I watched my daughter fall so many times from her prothesis as she tried to walk, run, climb stairs etc not because she could not do it but the actual knee joint would the best way i can describe it at the moment is buckle, which resulted in a number of bruises and yes even broken bones. As well the prothesis caused alot of discomfort and numberous sores not only on the pressure points but along the skin of the stump from the moisture which would build up inside. The pain made it seem like she was going through puberty. I guess in some ways i can relate to some of what has been said with that portion. What i cant reconcile is that it does not seem like this young lady was being followed up regularily with support personal as there are usually teams involved that see you on a regular basis. In my heart i hope he was not as involved as it appears.. in my mind i am :furious: that it appears that this little girl probably suffered greatly for no reason :(
bessie
11-04-2010, 04:48 PM
Equally complicit. AB might not have delivered the abuse, but he was certainly aware of it, and he allowed it to continue.
Then comes the question of whether he knew she was dead. We have no proof that he did yet, but imo, yes. He stated to the 911 dispatcher that he last saw her at 2:30 a.m. but did not discover she was missing until almost twelve hours later. I can't accept that.
First of all, there was a fire on the property. Dogs were barking, fire and police units were on the scene with flashing lights and sirens. The noise of the fire engine alone would have been loud enough to awaken someone in the quiet of the morning. I'll bet neighbors came out to look. Didn't anyone find it strange that Zahra didn't get up to see what was going on? But AB would have us believe that he just thought she was "brooding".
Here's something else that doesn't compute in my mind. The ransom note stated that the boss's daughter was kidnapped. But obviously, she was not since she was present with her father. Yet the kidnappers claimed to have taken a girl. AB's own daughter was asleep on the premises when the ransom note was left on his car, and presumably when the kidnapping would've taken place. What loving, responsible parent would not have put two and two together and checked on his own child who was not present and accounted for? Even a not-so-responsible parent would've done so. But no, we're to believe that through all of the commotion no one looked for Zahra, and when it was over, AB and EB just went back to bed in that rather small house, and never once peeked in on Zahra. BS!
Since I believe that he knew she was dead, it remains that he concealed her death, and imo, disposed of her body.
ETA: BTW, I'm not overlooking the fact that Zahra was hearing impaired.
JoeFromLB
11-04-2010, 05:01 PM
Equally complicit. AB might not have delivered the abuse, but he was certainly aware of it, and he allowed it to continue.
Then comes the question of whether he knew she was dead. We have no proof that he did yet, but imo, yes. He stated to the 911 dispatcher that he last saw her at 2:30 a.m. but did not discover she was missing until almost twelve hours later. I can't accept that.
First of all, there was a fire on the property. Dogs were barking, fire and police units were on the scene with flashing lights and sirens. The noise of the fire engine alone would have been loud enough to awaken someone in the quiet of the morning. I'll bet neighbors came out to look. Didn't anyone find it strange that Zahra didn't get up to see what was going on? But AB would have us believe that he just thought she was "brooding".
Here's something else that doesn't compute in my mind. The ransom note stated that the boss's daughter was kidnapped. But obviously, she was not since she was present with her father. Yet the kidnappers claimed to have taken a girl. AB's own daughter was asleep on the premises when the ransom note was left on his car, and presumably when the kidnapping would've taken place. What loving, responsible parent would not have put two and two together and checked on his own child who was not present and accounted for? Even a not-so-responsible parent would've done so. But no, we're to believe that through all of the commotion no one looked for Zahra, and when it was over, AB and EB just went back to bed in that rather small house, and never once peeked in on Zahra. BS!
Since I believe that he knew she was dead, it remains that he concealed her death, and imo, disposed of her body.
Nice, clear summary of the inconsistencies re: the fire and the "ransom" note, as well as AB's behavior.
impatientredhead
11-04-2010, 05:59 PM
The reporter on the ground at the search just reported on HLN that LE NOTIFIED AB when the bone was found.
So he is still being treated as the father of the victim rather than a suspect.
Things that make you go ummmmmmmmmmmmm.
Maybe they were seeing what his reaction would be?
Even is he is a suspect, he is not charged, and should be treated with the benefit of the doubt as far as discovery of remains go. But I don't think being treated as next of kin and a suspect are mutually exclusive.
Linda7NJ
11-04-2010, 06:13 PM
Equally complicit. AB might not have delivered the abuse, but he was certainly aware of it, and he allowed it to continue.
Then comes the question of whether he knew she was dead. We have no proof that he did yet, but imo, yes. He stated to the 911 dispatcher that he last saw her at 2:30 a.m. but did not discover she was missing until almost twelve hours later. I can't accept that.
First of all, there was a fire on the property. Dogs were barking, fire and police units were on the scene with flashing lights and sirens. The noise of the fire engine alone would have been loud enough to awaken someone in the quiet of the morning. I'll bet neighbors came out to look. Didn't anyone find it strange that Zahra didn't get up to see what was going on? But AB would have us believe that he just thought she was "brooding".
Here's something else that doesn't compute in my mind. The ransom note stated that the boss's daughter was kidnapped. But obviously, she was not since she was present with her father. Yet the kidnappers claimed to have taken a girl. AB's own daughter was asleep on the premises when the ransom note was left on his car, and presumably when the kidnapping would've taken place. What loving, responsible parent would not have put two and two together and checked on his own child who was not present and accounted for? Even a not-so-responsible parent would've done so. But no, we're to believe that through all of the commotion no one looked for Zahra, and when it was over, AB and EB just went back to bed in that rather small house, and never once peeked in on Zahra. BS!
Since I believe that he knew she was dead, it remains that he concealed her death, and imo, disposed of her body.
ETA: BTW, I'm not overlooking the fact that Zahra was hearing impaired.
I assure you I have no issues with my hearing at that age. My next door neighbor's house burned to the ground in the middle of the night, I never heard a thing. The sirens, flashing lights, all the neighbors gathered ...nothing. My bedroom window faced their home, standard size lots.
Kids sleep HARD. My own son could sleep through anything!
There is NO excuse for not checking on his daughter the night of the fire.
I believe he's in this, up .....past his eye balls.
bessie
11-04-2010, 06:42 PM
I assure you I have no issues with my hearing at that age. My next door neighbor's house burned to the ground in the middle of the night, I never heard a thing. The sirens, flashing lights, all the neighbors gathered ...nothing. My bedroom window faced their home, standard size lots.
Kids sleep HARD. My own son could sleep through anything!
There is NO excuse for not checking on his daughter the night of the fire.
I believe he's in this, up .....past his eye balls.
I knew someone would challenge me on that one. ;) So maybe she would've slept through it. Who knows. It doesn't matter because we know she wasn't there. My point was regarding AB's behavior as a parent, and that I don't believe if she were alive, or if he thought she were alive, that he or EB would not have checked on her, if just out of curiosity if not concern. His excuse is that he didn't have to because he knew she was dead. :furious:
Linda7NJ
11-04-2010, 07:14 PM
I knew someone would challenge me on that one. ;) So maybe she would've slept through it. Who knows. It doesn't matter because we know she wasn't there. My point was regarding AB's behavior as a parent, and that I don't believe if she were alive, or if he thought she were alive, that he or EB would not have checked on her, if just out of curiosity if not concern. His excuse is that he didn't have to because he knew she was dead. :furious:
I totally agree.
I voted this:
Other: Not sure how AB is involved. Can't condemn him for Zahra's demise, as yet...I need more information on his whereabouts..
Morally yes I think he is culpable and his actions and/or inactions make him directly responsible for what happened to Zahra before, during and after her death.
Legally? I don't see enough yet to lead me to believe that he is legally repsonsible. But I haven't seen all the evidence that LE has.
JMHO.
westsidefox64
11-04-2010, 07:46 PM
I assure you I have no issues with my hearing at that age. My next door neighbor's house burned to the ground in the middle of the night, I never heard a thing. The sirens, flashing lights, all the neighbors gathered ...nothing. My bedroom window faced their home, standard size lots.
Kids sleep HARD. My own son could sleep through anything!
There is NO excuse for not checking on his daughter the night of the fire.
I believe he's in this, up .....past his eye balls.
JMO LE had to be interested in Zahra at this point. I cant see them not asking about thier children. (WHAT IF) LE asked about thier child/children and EB says I just checked on Zahra and shes sleeping. Im sure at that point no one would have reason to question her word. Not saying thats how it happened but it ould have!
cyberborg
11-04-2010, 08:12 PM
IMO AB was the biological Father of Zahra and thus was totally responsible for her care, welfare, development, needs, etc, etc. 100%.
It seems AB shirked his responsibility 'big time' and lazily deferred to EB as well as let Zahra fend for herself. Even if he has a job and was busy at times he should have checked and ensured she was cared for and followed up on healthcare needs.
AB MUST have seen and known of warning signs that EB did not have Zahra's welfare in mind ... far from it!! He can act stupid but he is not stupid. AB was 100% responsible to seek any medical care and check-ups. He didn't care. He just didn't care.
IMO AB is fully complicit in everything that has happened to Zahra both before and afterwards. 100%.
wfgodot
11-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Great poll, well-worded and the choices cover all the bases.
Mountain_Kat
11-04-2010, 09:21 PM
I voted this:
Other: Not sure how AB is involved. Can't condemn him for Zahra's demise, as yet...I need more information on his whereabouts..
Morally yes I think he is culpable and his actions and/or inactions make him directly responsible for what happened to Zahra before, during and after her death.
Legally? I don't see enough yet to lead me to believe that he is legally repsonsible. But I haven't seen all the evidence that LE has.
JMHO.
Speculation Alert!
Let me ask you this, Kat: if you found out that house was covered in blood, and that were traces of body parts in the plumbing, would you still be unsure whether AB had anything to do with this or not? Just curious to hear your thoughts on that.
epiphany
11-04-2010, 09:38 PM
I voted AB is equally complicit. Believe Adam and EB had a strange symbiotic relationship. He's no puppet of EB's, nor is he a fool.
Curious Me
11-04-2010, 10:09 PM
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/03/crowd-taunts-baker-evicted-ar-505700/
It's chilling to hear how no one seems to doubt EB is evil enough to have done something bad to Zahra. IMO, there's no way AB was unaware of their poor treatment of Zahra, and each day he ignored it is just a slower approach to a little girl dying in HIS care. No excuses are good enough, IMO. Both of them have Zahra's blood on their hands.
tlcya
11-04-2010, 10:15 PM
Well, you guys have been busy little beavers, lol. Based on the many new poll selections and finding one that suits my answer better, I am going to have to change my answer.
tlcya
11-04-2010, 10:16 PM
of course now, I think we know which one wil win in the landslide.
panthera
11-04-2010, 10:27 PM
IMO, AB is "more" complicit than she, because HE is the reason she was with EB. So..i selected "both" equally complicit, but truly feel as if AB killed her...when he brought and kept her in that environment.
BBM
I couldn't agree more. :cry:
Wise Old Owl
11-04-2010, 10:46 PM
I wish we could get more background on AB from his life in Oz. I wonder if her was a hunter or a fisherman, and if he was - was he really into it - almost like a hobby?
Maytruthprevail
11-04-2010, 11:41 PM
Just a theory I'm throwing out there. I haven't seen it considered.
Is there a possibility that AB sexually molested Zahra,(he mentioned how she was in puberty and brooded - even chuckled about it during the 911 call) then during the night she bled to death? That could be a reason why EB stated they didn't murder her. It could also be a reason that they got rid of the mattress which could have contained blood and semen. I think AB wanted to hide HIS crime of incest by getting rid of the mattress. Then when Zahra died, he took off her leg and discarded it, and then placed Zahra's body in the wood chipper. (the prosthetic leg could have jammed the wood chipper). Just a horrible thought, but possible.
Paulette
11-05-2010, 12:29 AM
I wish we could get more background on AB from his life in Oz. I wonder if her was a hunter or a fisherman, and if he was - was he really into it - almost like a hobby?
His hobby was playing virtual world games on the computer.
So she was in school until june 2010 with all the alleged abuse where were the school officials to point out all the bruising we are claiming was apparent. I just dont understand that it being so obvious no one at the school reported anything. Surley if it was obvious to her father that ignored it it must have been obvious to the teachers. They are obligated legally correct?
Linda7NJ
11-05-2010, 10:37 AM
So she was in school until june 2010 with all the alleged abuse where were the school officials to point out all the bruising we are claiming was apparent. I just dont understand that it being so obvious no one at the school reported anything. Surley if it was obvious to her father that ignored it it must have been obvious to the teachers. They are obligated legally correct?
Correct, teachers are mandated reporters
Linda7NJ
11-05-2010, 10:40 AM
I'm curious if he is dogging LE with questions, offering to help, staying in contact at all with LE?
IMO An innocent person would.
Correct, teachers are mandated reporters
So just some more adults who let her down..ashame.
miabellamoure
11-05-2010, 01:45 PM
So she was in school until june 2010 with all the alleged abuse where were the school officials to point out all the bruising we are claiming was apparent. I just dont understand that it being so obvious no one at the school reported anything. Surley if it was obvious to her father that ignored it it must have been obvious to the teachers. They are obligated legally correct?
The same school that contacted AB & EB when Zahra did not return to school and were told by AB & EB that Zahra was being home schooled also did NO follow up on the latter claim...they dropped a deadly ball...jmho.
My Poll vote is, AB contributed to Zahra's death through negligence and was involved in the cover up and disposal
From all accounts of the abuse that poor Zahra endured...occured on HIS watch. Whether a parent is at home or work, they're obligated to their childs safety & welfare and he failed his child miserably.
If tests confirm that Zahra's dna is found in the woodchipper and/or plumbing...I will have NO doubts who were the main players in this event...at all.
ynotdivein
11-05-2010, 01:54 PM
So just some more adults who let her down..ashame.
I am in no way attempting to give the teachers a pass here, but this just occurred to me...
We know anecdotally that EB hurt herself while beating Zahra, by hitting her hand on the prosthesis. This indicates to me that much of the bruising Zahra endured may not have been apparent to an observer when she was dressed.
(I know I know, the black eyes would have been a huge giveaway! As an ex-teacher I have been down that path of reporting and it is no fun, but remains among my proudest memories from that career. If she showed up at school with black eyes, DSS should have been INUNDATED with calls--from everybody from Zahra's classroom teacher to the school secretary.)
Just thinking out loud...
myzzy
11-05-2010, 01:58 PM
His hobby was playing virtual world games on the computer.
Im sure we have no concrete answer that was the only thing he enjoyed or if he was even heavly into it. I do not recall anyone finding his profiles into that world??
My husband is a huge roleplaying person who plays games online and off but that is not the only thing he enjoys and yes even like AB/EB i met my husband from the online gaming world and married him and went to his country to live ( Im a US Citizen and now a Canadian Citizen)
I would hate for anyone to look at the gaming world online and attribute anything from it with no grounds to do so. if someone asked about my hobbys and then people went and searched they would see Crime, murder, death, pogo, and barbie.com but that is not who i am its just one of the many things i enjoy and or my kids enjoy
( PS this is not directed at you just in general)
eyes4crime
11-05-2010, 02:17 PM
I voted that AB was involved in the death and cover up of Zahra. I think step-mom and dad have a steadfast plan - and that is to never admit to the whereabouts or to the death of Zahra. moo
As for Zahra's teachers, what if step-mom led those in the school to believe that Zahra suffered bruising due to being clumsy in her home, rushing around, and falling. What if they convinced DFS of that? just a thought! moo mho
I am in no way attempting to give the teachers a pass here, but this just occurred to me...
We know anecdotally that EB hurt herself while beating Zahra, by hitting her hand on the prosthesis. This indicates to me that much of the bruising Zahra endured may not have been apparent to an observer when she was dressed.
(I know I know, the black eyes would have been a huge giveaway! As an ex-teacher I have been down that path of reporting and it is no fun, but remains among my proudest memories from that career. If she showed up at school with black eyes, DSS should have been INUNDATED with calls--from everybody from Zahra's classroom teacher to the school secretary.)
Just thinking out loud...
I am grateful that you were that helpful to children in need. You are an important role model to those quiet observers.
I voted that AB was involved in the death and cover up of Zahra. I think step-mom and dad have a steadfast plan - and that is to never admit to the whereabouts or to the death of Zahra. moo
As for Zahra's teachers, what if step-mom led those in the school to believe that Zahra suffered bruising due to being clumsy in her home, rushing around, and falling. What if they convinced DFS of that? just a thought! moo mho
BBM Lets hope its not that easy...
Virgogalsue
11-05-2010, 04:44 PM
I voted that AB was involved in the death and cover up of Zahra. I think step-mom and dad have a steadfast plan - and that is to never admit to the whereabouts or to the death of Zahra. moo
As for Zahra's teachers, what if step-mom led those in the school to believe that Zahra suffered bruising due to being clumsy in her home, rushing around, and falling. What if they convinced DFS of that? just a thought! moo mho
IF that is the case...that they REFUSE to give up Z's whereabouts, that is heinous.
Since EB seems to think that she will be getting out of prison eventually, I suggest LE tell her that unless she 'tells' she will be 'on the hook' for the cost to the state for this search!
She would find that so unfair I bet she would start squealing!
tehcloser
11-05-2010, 05:04 PM
Go look at the pictures of that house. Then think about his guilt. Especially the paint rollers in the kitchen.......there was a huge clean up effort going on.
tsisqua
11-05-2010, 05:25 PM
Go look at the pictures of that house. Then think about his guilt. Especially the paint rollers in the kitchen.......there was a huge clean up effort going on.
Exactly what I was thinking. Was he home that week or away working? I know he claims to have seen her Tuesday night.
Lera213
11-05-2010, 05:35 PM
No way AB is NOT GUILTY! No way, unless he was deaf, dumb and blind.
Lera213
11-05-2010, 05:36 PM
Arrest coming soon for him if they did find Zahra today. AND I"M SURE that LE will do a nice perp walk for us. LE I doubt will arrest him in the wee hours of the morning like before. They will arrest him at high Noon! MOO
WhyaDuck?
11-05-2010, 05:41 PM
If you go to post a link to another site and it comes up "*****" that means it is a site that is not allowed on WS - either because it has been ruled as suspect or offensive, or because that site has asked us not to allow people to link to them.
An easy way to test is to hit "preview post," and it will show you if the link will work.
If the link doesn't work, you cannot post it or refer to the item you were hoping to link. If you have any questions or concerns about this, you can contact a mod and inquire.
Carry on, dear sleuthers!
tehcloser
11-05-2010, 05:45 PM
Exactly what I was thinking. Was he home that week or away working? I know he claims to have seen her Tuesday night.
He said he saw her Thursday night, in one interview he messed up and said Tuesday but the reporter corrected him and he said Thursday.......
darnudes
11-05-2010, 05:51 PM
In the beginning I thought Adam Baker was only involved in the cover up. A couple of weeks ago I began to believe he actively contributed to her death. Now, I don't have any doubt. It's only my opinion but I firmly believed he helped to murder her.
Mountain_Kat
11-05-2010, 06:42 PM
In the beginning I thought Adam Baker was only involved in the cover up. A couple of weeks ago I began to believe he actively contributed to her death. Now, I don't have any doubt. It's only my opinion but I firmly believed he helped to murder her.
We seem to have come to the same conclusion, Dar. Which makes this case all the more disturbing to me..if that were even possible.
panthera
11-05-2010, 10:10 PM
In the beginning I thought Adam Baker was only involved in the cover up. A couple of weeks ago I began to believe he actively contributed to her death. Now, I don't have any doubt. It's only my opinion but I firmly believed he helped to murder her.
Seeing what was left behind in Zahra's closet says it all to me. :cry: MOO
passionflower
11-05-2010, 10:17 PM
Why is this evil monster not in jail yet????
w1df10wr
11-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Yesterday, I voted Other. Glad the OP made the poll so a vote could be changed. AB & EB are equally complicit, imo.
sherbetjello
11-06-2010, 01:42 AM
I think that Zahra was neglected, and for that... both parents should be put on trial.
(PS- I am one of those "dreamers" and can't bring the thought of the worst has happened.)
TxLady2
11-06-2010, 10:33 AM
Seeing what was left behind in Zahra's closet says it all to me. :cry: MOO
Not being snarky at all, and not directed to you specifically, but... I'm just confused about all the comments regarding the clothes in the closet being discussed as a sign of guilt. There are probably many 10 y.o. girls who don't have many clothes. Maybe she had t-shirts and jeans/pants in drawers, not hanging up. Or there could have been a whole hamper-full of clothes that had not been laundered yet. Anybody ever thought of that?
I guess I just don't get the significance of the number of clothes hanging in the closet. Someone help me out here!
Not being snarky at all, and not directed to you specifically, but... I'm just confused about all the comments regarding the clothes in the closet being discussed as a sign of guilt. There are probably many 10 y.o. girls who don't have many clothes. Maybe she had t-shirts and jeans/pants in drawers, not hanging up. Or there could have been a whole hamper-full of clothes that had not been laundered yet. Anybody ever thought of that?
I guess I just don't get the significance of the number of clothes hanging in the closet. Someone help me out here!
Thank you for this, there are a lot of children that dont have a room full of toys and clothes, there are a lot of poor children. As fas as leaving them there..my mom and dad have passed and I kept a few of their things not closets full. I think most people believe this to be a sign of him being aware she is not coming back and with what the police are saying I believe that too. I dont think he has any doubts of her being gone for good but neither do I and I didnt hurt her.
Mountain_Kat
11-06-2010, 12:02 PM
Not being snarky at all, and not directed to you specifically, but... I'm just confused about all the comments regarding the clothes in the closet being discussed as a sign of guilt. There are probably many 10 y.o. girls who don't have many clothes. Maybe she had t-shirts and jeans/pants in drawers, not hanging up. Or there could have been a whole hamper-full of clothes that had not been laundered yet. Anybody ever thought of that?
I guess I just don't get the significance of the number of clothes hanging in the closet. Someone help me out here!
I don't consider the amount of clothes left in her closet significant. I do find it surreal though that the only visible sign (to us anyway) of this child ever having even been in that house, is just a handful of clothes and some stickers in the bottom of her closet. I'm sure LE carted out ALOT of Zahra's stuff and I simply missed the pics of them doing that, but why leave those few clothes hanging in her closet. Why not take them as well? Just seems strange to me. And, while it's true that we only have a handful of pictures of the inside of the house, I can't find a single thing in any of those pics to indicate that a child ever lived there, except for her closet and a few kids stickers stuck to her bedroom wall. Not hand drawn kid pics on the fridge in the kitchen, not childrens dvd's, not a little girls hair barret laying on the floor of the bathroom, nothing.
LCoastMom
11-06-2010, 01:53 PM
Let me get this straight. He is driving a truck around with
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother; who is now in jail and is a suspect in her disappearance.”
written on the back?? How unbelievable stupid! :doh: He was with her daily. Does he really think that we can't put two and two together? He is announcing to the world that he watched his daughter be abused by EB on a daily basis and did nothing to stop her. IMO
:behind::behind::behind::behind:
ETA: There is just no responsibility with this man. He is as deluded as EB is. He seems to think he is going to get away with this by pointing fingers at EB while completely excusing the fact that he is her father and lived under the same roof.
There was no one in that house who cared at all about this little girl. No wonder she was so upset when she had to get rid of her cats. They probably showed her more love and devotion then her own father. IMO
No, no, remember - he was at work! Hmm why does this sound so familiar? That's right, Haleigh's sperm donor, RC, had the same lame excuse and it worked for him! He turned it into a mantra.
These two make me sick.
Mandy113
11-06-2010, 02:41 PM
I voted equally complicit. I'd also vote for them to receive equal punishment. As long as it's the harshest sentence which can be imposed by law.
Lera213
11-06-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm worried because without a COD, these evil people could get off with lesser charges!
panthera
11-06-2010, 05:00 PM
Not being snarky at all, and not directed to you specifically, but... I'm just confused about all the comments regarding the clothes in the closet being discussed as a sign of guilt. There are probably many 10 y.o. girls who don't have many clothes. Maybe she had t-shirts and jeans/pants in drawers, not hanging up. Or there could have been a whole hamper-full of clothes that had not been laundered yet. Anybody ever thought of that?
I guess I just don't get the significance of the number of clothes hanging in the closet. Someone help me out here!
I wasn't referring to the number of clothes in the closet, just the fact that things belonging to Zahra were still in there after he and family had been inside the house. IMO, if he were totally innocent and facing eviction, he'd want to get all her things out of there as soon as possible. MOO
Lera213
11-06-2010, 05:18 PM
How could any family member enter that house and believe AB had ZERO involvement is way beyond rational comprehension!
matou
11-06-2010, 07:36 PM
Let me get this straight. He is driving a truck around with
“Zahra has been abused daily by her mother; who is now in jail and is a suspect in her disappearance.”
written on the back?? How unbelievable stupid! :doh: He was with her daily. Does he really think that we can't put two and two together? He is announcing to the world that he watched his daughter be abused by EB on a daily basis and did nothing to stop her. IMO
:behind::behind::behind::behind:
ETA: There is just no responsibility with this man. He is as deluded as EB is. He seems to think he is going to get away with this by pointing fingers at EB while completely excusing the fact that he is her father and lived under the same roof.
There was no one in that house who cared at all about this little girl. No wonder she was so upset when she had to get rid of her cats. They probably showed her more love and devotion then her own father. IMO
Wow, now he's switching from THEY took her leg (in the 911 call) to accusing his wife of abusing his own daughter daily? He went from leading the police to think his daughter was abducted by one or more people to blaming his wife (easy enough since she admitted to writing the ransom note)? He's breaking down and will really mess up what he says and then the police will arrest him soon enough.
I'm also very suspicious since he told the police about the prosthetic leg being taken in the 911 call and then the leg is found near a road. That makes me think that he planted it there to be easily found even though it took some time for LE to find it. He was, in my opinion, leading LE investigators to look for the prosthetic. Maybe he was leading investigators away from where Zahra actually is and maybe Zahra is not near where her prosthetic was located. MOO
LCoastMom
11-07-2010, 12:52 AM
I'm worried because without a COD, these evil people could get off with lesser charges!
Caylee has an unknown COD, her mother is charged with MURDER. With the right evidence, murder charges are brought without any physical remains.
If that house revealed what it looks like it revealed - someone is going down hard - let's hope and pray LE is putting together air tight charges and the guilty party/ies are charged, tried, found guilty and sentenced accordingly!
passionflower
11-07-2010, 07:23 PM
From the day I voted until today....I have never changed my mind.
Both of these evil saddist people (AB/EB) are involved in the murder of Zahra.,JMOO
May justice be served for Zahra by her birthday Nov.16th.
sherryk
11-07-2010, 07:48 PM
AB was involved. If EB was abusing the little girl HE allowed it to happen, perhaps she did so after seeing him abuse her so much. The thing is this little girl just didnt happen to fall into abuse with EB.. if so then AB would of not let it happen. He was abusing her also.
I think he very well knew what was going on. I do think she was perhaps sick and from what I do not know. It could be from physical abuse, neglect, illness that was not treated. IMO they KNEW she was hurt in someway and left her there in that room not allowing her to come out. I seriously doubt there will be a reciept of any medication if in fact she has been sick a few weeks. They negelected her and kept her locked away.
She may have passed weeks before. The dismemberment of her body done in stages and at each stage clean up and some things in woodchipper such as rags, towles. I suspect the bones were discarded at different locations and various times.
AB is more creepy than EB to me. He is non caring. Do they really think they can get out of this. IF they had one ounce of decency they would at least tell the truth. Shame on AB for concealing ZB from her mother. WHat a selfish pig he is
sunsetbeach
11-07-2010, 08:21 PM
I think (also hope and pray) that tomorrow will bring us some new news. Start of a new week, elections are over so maybe just maybe we will have a new charge of Murder in the first degree on both EB & AB.
little lulu
11-08-2010, 06:15 AM
I think (also hope and pray) that tomorrow will bring us some new news. Start of a new week, elections are over so maybe just maybe we will have a new charge of Murder in the first degree on both EB & AB.
My thoughts exactly, I am hoping today will bring charges against them.
Zahra deserves swift justice.
my_tee_mouse
11-08-2010, 09:03 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/25/north.carolina.missing.girl/index.html?iref=obinsite
TxLady2
11-08-2010, 09:45 AM
I wasn't referring to the number of clothes in the closet, just the fact that things belonging to Zahra were still in there after he and family had been inside the house. IMO, if he were totally innocent and facing eviction, he'd want to get all her things out of there as soon as possible. MOO
Ok, sorry. I did say I was not directing my comment to you specifically. I have seen comments regarding how few clothes she had and that was what I was commenting on.
I don't believe he was allowed in the house while the searches were being conducted, so this might have been his first opportunity. It's also possible LE told him not to remove anything of Zahra's, which is usually the way it's done. Were pictures taken of his and Elisa's closet? Perhaps their clothes were still there as well.
I don't know all the facts, so I can't assume he's guilty because of one picture. Could be a number of valid reasons why her clothes were still there.
I've moved a number of times in my life, and the clothes from the closet are usually the last things I take out of the house.
DLT88
11-09-2010, 03:45 PM
In the beginning I thought Adam Baker was only involved in the cover up. A couple of weeks ago I began to believe he actively contributed to her death. Now, I don't have any doubt. It's only my opinion but I firmly believed he helped to murder her.
I'm thinking the same thing. Besides the one photo provided by Emily of AB holding baby Zahra, has anyone seen any other photos of Zahra happily posing with her father in a photo? Sitting on his lap? Holding hands? Arms around him? ANYTHING?
Clue Hopper
11-09-2010, 03:46 PM
I was talking to my mom. She didn't hear anything about Zahra. My mom is elderly. I mentioned AB being evicted and leaving clothes in the closet while other things were locked in a room not to be touched. She replied with this....Maybe he left them out so people could see she lived there, and that it was in fact her room. So some people could have comfort in seeing things that belonged to her.......I was just sharing my mom's thoughts. It was a different way of seeing things.
Linda7NJ
11-09-2010, 04:15 PM
I was talking to my mom. She didn't hear anything about Zahra. My mom is elderly. I mentioned AB being evicted and leaving clothes in the closet while other things were locked in a room not to be touched. She replied with this....Maybe he left them out so people could see she lived there, and that it was in fact her room. So some people could have comfort in seeing things that belonged to her.......I was just sharing my mom's thoughts. It was a different way of seeing things.
Bless her heart she can't even comprehend the EVIL.
lauriej
11-09-2010, 05:12 PM
I'm worried because without a COD, these evil people could get off with lesser charges!
District Attorney Jay Gaither hasn't said if his office is preparing charges but has said he is consulting with the N.C. Attorney General's office and other prosecutors on the issue of prosecuting a murder if the victim's body isn't recovered.
"The absence of a body is not considered to be a bar to prosecution by my office," Gaither wrote recently in an e-mail
Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/01/1802698/police-making-another-visit-to.html#ixzz14pCLgZQe
Mandy113
11-10-2010, 09:10 AM
I was thinking of Zahra last night instead of sleeping. Wondering if LE will find her today. Then I thought about AB. His silence throughout these searches for his daughter is deafening. Now I'm worried somehow either AB or EB will get off on some lesser charges. Depending on the state of the remains (I hate that word!), it may be difficult to prove COD.
AB is soooooo guilty. He wouldn't even protect his daughter in death. I only wish AB & EB could suffer the same way Zahra did.
OzChristian
11-10-2010, 09:53 AM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
summermood32
11-10-2010, 10:11 AM
AB had to know what was going on period. He should be in jail period. It scares me to know someone with a cold heart such as AB can be walking around free. Who doesn’t check on their child when they are sick any parent would. Why is he not in jail?
Mountain_Kat
11-10-2010, 11:47 AM
I'm thinking the same thing. Besides the one photo provided by Emily of AB holding baby Zahra, has anyone seen any other photos of Zahra happily posing with her father in a photo? Sitting on his lap? Holding hands? Arms around him? ANYTHING?
No, not a one. I've seen pics of her posing and smiling with EB, EB's daughters, EB's ex, but not a single one of her smiling and posing with her Daddy.
Wonder why. :furious:
dar107
11-10-2010, 12:31 PM
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/10/new-area-caldwell-county-searched-ar-526368/
Snipped:
FBI and SBI investigators spent Tuesday reviewing case documents and interviews at the Hickory Police Department's command post in their continuing efforts to focus the investigation's efforts, Adkins said.
***Hoping this means they are dotting i's, crossing t's and putting enough together to get AB's azz in a jail cell!
The 10-year-old girl's father, Adam Baker, cooperated with police during the first few weeks of the investigation. On Oct. 25 he turned himself in at the Hickory Police Department and was arrested on charges unrelated to the disappearance of his daughter. The charges included five counts of worthless checks and failure to appear.
Two days later, he bonded out of jail.
[B]Adkins said any communication between investigators and Baker is going through Baker's attorney, Mark Killian.
**** If I were an innocent father in this situation, and was told I cannot help search for my daughter, I think I would at the very least be calling LE about 100 times a day, asking for updates, not giving them my lawyers name for contact.
IMO
Mrs G Norris
11-10-2010, 02:37 PM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
From previous location:
Even if Adam does have some minute drop of Aboriginal blood running through his veins, I hardly see him as anyone who maintained aboriginal traditions to this degree (or any degree actually). Look forward to him attempting to play this one in court however when he tries to explain the fact that he dismembered his precious daughter, not to avoid detection (oh no) but to practice his own cultural traditions.
Don't think the jury is going to buy that either.
DLT88
11-10-2010, 02:47 PM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing. Something to think about.
DLT88
11-10-2010, 02:49 PM
From previous location:
Even if Adam does have some minute drop of Aboriginal blood running through his veins, I hardly see him as anyone who maintained aboriginal traditions to this degree (or any degree actually). Look forward to him attempting to play this one in court however when he tries to explain the fact that he dismembered his precious daughter, not to avoid detection (oh no) but to practice his own cultural traditions.
Don't think the jury is going to buy that either.
Gosh, I just realized that maybe it will be used in court as an excuse. Hopefully, the DA will shoot it down by showing that AB most likely didn't follow any other aboriginal traditions until the moment he had to dispose of his child's body. How 'convenient'. Nope, that won't sit well with a jury.
Mountain_Kat
11-10-2010, 03:02 PM
Biting tongue clean in half here.
darlin gal
11-10-2010, 03:03 PM
Biting tongue clean in half here.
We have matching tongue's then. :crazy:
tehcloser
11-10-2010, 03:06 PM
There are no msn links to back this up, none. I think it does Zahra a terrible injustice to even make it worthy of being talked about. To try and say her father chopped her up because of religious beliefs........when there is NO PROOF he is of aboriginal descent reeks of something a desperate defense attorney would try. I am appalled.
I was tired of biting mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mrs G Norris
11-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Gosh, I just realized that maybe it will be used in court as an excuse. Hopefully, the DA will shoot it down by showing that AB most likely didn't follow any other aboriginal traditions until the moment he had to dispose of his child's body. How 'convenient'. Nope, that won't sit well with a jury.
There are no msn links to back this up, none. I think it does Zahra a terrible injustice to even make it worthy of being talked about. To try and say her father chopped her up because of religious beliefs........when there is NO PROOF he is of aboriginal descent reeks of something a desperate defense attorney would try. I am appalled.
I was tired of biting mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds to me like a theory the family / friends would try and float, rather than an actual attempt at defense in court....don't think it would make it that far do you? Oh yes, and my first step would be to look for past examples of Adam practising any indigenous cultural beliefs...I doubt any will be found.
Allusonz
11-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Gosh, I just realized that maybe it will be used in court as an excuse. Hopefully, the DA will shoot it down by showing that AB most likely didn't follow any other aboriginal traditions until the moment he had to dispose of his child's body. How 'convenient'. Nope, that won't sit well with a jury.
Just a thought...even if he is not part aboringinal, it could be that he has been involved in the process ie a friend death in the past, thus having knowledge of (trying to phrase this right) or been an actual participant
mods i hope i phrased this right
Virgogalsue
11-10-2010, 03:30 PM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
Then why not just tell the police she had died, the 'traditional' cultural practice and request help in returning her body to AUS?
Why make a phone call to report her missing? Why the randsom note?
(shakes head)
Nope, makes no sense to me!
tehcloser
11-10-2010, 03:32 PM
The funerary rites that enact these transitions are often called (in English translation) "sorry business." They occur in Aboriginal camps and houses, as well as in Christian churches because the varied funerary practices of the past have been almost exclusively displaced by Christian burial
Read more: Australian Aboriginal Religion - world, burial, body, funeral, life, history, beliefs, person, human http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Australian-Aboriginal-Religion.html#ixzz14uhhWg98
If we insist on going here then lets at least go truthfully.
NancyA
11-10-2010, 03:37 PM
I agree the aboriginal background info is fascinating, but sincerely doubt AB is a devout adherent to the ceremonial traditions of his cultural roots. If he were to float this as a defense I think he would have a difficult time explaining why he did not tell LE that was the case instead of allowing them to be led on this searching merry-go-round.
butwhatif?
11-10-2010, 03:46 PM
From previous location:
Even if Adam does have some minute drop of Aboriginal blood running through his veins, I hardly see him as anyone who maintained aboriginal traditions to this degree (or any degree actually). Look forward to him attempting to play this one in court however when he tries to explain the fact that he dismembered his precious daughter, not to avoid detection (oh no) but to practice his own cultural traditions.
Don't think the jury is going to buy that either.
Couldn't agree more Mrs G! Also if he really were a person who put so much into the aboriginal cultural aspect then he would be saying he didn't want Zahras photos/videos published. That goes against the culture right there!
Many of us born in Oz have some Aboriginal blood in us, but to be viewed legally as an aboriginal you have to be accepted by an aboriginal community, and live that culture, passing down dreamtime stories etc.
Meeting some goth chick on IMVU and following her to the US with his DD who has just been told she is in remission from cancer would not fit with true aboriginal culture AT ALL.
JMO
Allusonz
11-10-2010, 03:48 PM
I truly dislike when i saw but...
But.....
When i look through my list of unanswered questions that make no sense whatsoever as well as a unique defense strategy :banghead:
I better stick to But
dar107
11-10-2010, 03:49 PM
I had to sit on my hands after reading that one. I do have respect that the time was taken to explain these traditions,and understand Australia is rich in Aboriginal Culture although I highly doubt IMO it has anything to do in any way with whatever happened to Zahra.
I hope AB isn't using that one on his mom!
cyberborg
11-10-2010, 03:50 PM
There are no msn links to back this up, none. I think it does Zahra a terrible injustice to even make it worthy of being talked about. To try and say her father chopped her up because of religious beliefs........when there is NO PROOF he is of aboriginal descent reeks of something a desperate defense attorney would try. I am appalled.
I was tired of biting mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I completely agree!! If Zahra's remains are scattered, for that action to be based on religous beliefs is IMO simply absurd ... and incosistent with aboriginal practices. My understanding is that desecration of a corpse or dismemberment has nothing to do with aboriginal funerals.
The primary burial is when the corpse is layed out on an elevated wooden platform, covered in leaves and branches, and left several months for the flesh to rot away from the bones.
The secondary burial is when the bones are collected from the platform, painted with red ochre, and then dispersed in different ways. Sometimes a relative will carry a portion of the bones with them for a year or more. Sometimes they are wrapped in paperbark and deposited in a cave shelter, where they are left to disintegrate with time.
I have lived in Melbourne, Australia. Australia, like any other civilized Western country, has laws and you cannot simply desecrate corpses and would not, ever ... even in Wagga Wagga -- which is not that far away from where I lived and not that far from the capital, Canberra. So, if not in Wagga Wagga then expecially not in Hickory where you are a foreign immigrant.
I am a firm believer of Occam's Razor, i.e., the simplest explanation and that is ... nothing more than a heinous cover-up.
GMAB.
epiphany
11-10-2010, 03:50 PM
A very interesting and fascinating read, OzC!
If that is/were the case, it should not come as any surprise to Adam that sometimes, cultures are not as dissimilar as they appear upon first glance. Regarding "untimely deaths," Australian Aborigines believe that:
SNIPPED: People may be held responsible for untimely deaths even if the suspected means of dispatch was not violence but accident or sorcery. The forms of justice meted out to such suspects include banishment, corporal punishment, and death (even though the latter is now banned by Australian law).
http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Australian-Aboriginal-Religion.html
MandyLeigh
11-10-2010, 03:52 PM
Originally Posted by OzChristian View Post
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal.
bbm
"The Dark Child LOL" has nothing to do with aboriginal descent. It's just a term EB picked up and regurgitated from myspace, Vampire and Goth online communities. If you do some google searches you will see "Dark" attached to a lot of things in these communities. It's just EB being a follower because she claims to be a gothi/vampire/fairy. Nothing more.
Look at her letters. She writes "Dark Heart", "Dark Love", "My Favorite Dark Person" The Dark Child is just part of that.
NancyA
11-10-2010, 03:52 PM
The funerary rites that enact these transitions are often called (in English translation) "sorry business." They occur in Aboriginal camps and houses, as well as in Christian churches because the varied funerary practices of the past have been almost exclusively displaced by Christian burial
Read more: Australian Aboriginal Religion - world, burial, body, funeral, life, history, beliefs, person, human http://www.deathreference.com/A-Bi/Australian-Aboriginal-Religion.html#ixzz14uhhWg98
If we insist on going here then lets at least go truthfully.
ITA. And just want to add that whatever culture one comes from, whatever one's beliefs, everyone is still subject to the prevailing law of a given country regarding the disposal of a corpse; if what my mother tells me is true I have Viking ancestors but I don't think the local authorities in California would look too kindly on me setting any of my loved ones' bodies adrift aboard a flaming longboat on the local creek.
westsidefox64
11-10-2010, 03:52 PM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
first of all WELCOME TO WS!!!
Although I doubt this is what really was behind all this I APPRICIATE the THINKING OUT OF THE BOX ! JMO
tfrohning
11-10-2010, 03:53 PM
I agree the aboriginal background info is fascinating, but sincerely doubt AB is a devout adherent to the ceremonial traditions of his cultural roots. If he were to float this as a defense I think he would have a difficult time explaining why he did not tell LE that was the case instead of allowing them to be led on this searching merry-go-round.
I also think this is fascinating. I always felt that they come up with something
ritual.
There is no proof of AB being Aboriginal Austria. He sure don't look like he is.
Even if he claims to be of that descent it just fits with EB wanting to be a vampire. Theses two were made for each other. All I seen and read they did not want to be normal:banghead:
ynotdivein
11-10-2010, 03:54 PM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
RBBM. Oz, thank you for this information--and now I am racking my brain to remember which poster in the "Zahra Dreams and Visions" thread had a dream (or vision?) where they heard someone telling them to "look up"....
(Also, Oz, not sure if anyone has pointed you this direction yet, but if you are an "insider" with special knowledge of the case please contact Tricia our site moderator who will verify you. This will save you many challenges down the line, as we WSers tend to play it by the book, just the facts ma'am and all that... Thanks again and welcome to WS! :wave:)
Yellow Rose
11-10-2010, 03:59 PM
I voted that they are equally contributive to the death and demise of Zahra as well as the dismemberment and disbersement of same. He is up to his eyeballs in this and I pray every day that evidence will fall into the hands of LE so they can lock him up for good with his "dark" wife!
Scamperoo
11-10-2010, 10:55 PM
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment. In general, the flesh is dealt with first (sometimes it is even manually removed). A second disposal involves the bones. The body may be left on a platform or in a tree to decay. The bones can later be placed in a hollow log or wrapped in bark or hidden between rocks. Lyne River aborigines have a rather unique custom of dividing the bones into three separate bundles, which are then placed in three different locations. As it becomes apparent that Zhara's body was dismembered, perhaps there could be some truth in Elisa's statement that what Adam "did after the fact is kinda horrifying". Kind of horrifying to us Westerners, but perfectly natural perhaps for a grieving father of aboriginal descent who knew that he could never afford to return her body to her real "country" of birth - Wagga Wagga, Australia.
I don't think AB has much of any Australian aboriginal descent in him IMO, even if he had I don't believe this aspect comes into play here.
Although Australia has become much more respectful of peoples of Australian aboriginal descent the dynamics change when murder is suspected, one can't use that as an excuse to justify the disarticulation and systematic scattering of a family member. It's akin to burying someone after they are murdered with the excuse ,It's tradition, it's just how we deal with the dead.
The customary way of dealing with the dead is ritual to whatever culture one comes from and for me holds no "horror". I am absolutely sure what AB did he did out of fear he would be caught not out of respect for his daughter.
docwho3
11-11-2010, 05:09 AM
At one time I thought Adam was more involved in making decisions than it might appear
at first glance but then I noted:
1. Adam left his country to be with Elisa, not the other way around.
2. They lived within a few miles of homes that Elisa had lived in for the past 15 years or so.
They lived in her stomping grounds. He didn't say let's go live in Ohio or California etc.
& move them to a place of his own choosing.
3. He seems to have allowed her complete say-so over his daughter's life and earthly fate.
No news reports that I have read ever mentioned him as having ever slowed
or stayed Elisa's hand from harming Zahra. (Please provide a link if you find evidence to the contrary.
I always like to learn more.)
4. So far the locations where it has been reported that evidence possibly related to this case
was found have been in areas near where Elisa lived in years past and places
she, and not Adam, would have known about.
I realize that any one of these things by itself is not all that much of an indicator
but I think that taken together they might paint a picture of one person being
more of the driving force and the other being content to follow and help with
the muscle work.
I am not saying he was her total slave but I do see a pattern of behavior in their
relationship that seems to point to her being the driving force behind most decisions.
Note: That is not meant to let him off the hook in any way for what has happened but
it might help when people are thinking of where to look for evidence.
I do sort of wonder why he let Elisa seemingly direct things so much.
NancyA
11-11-2010, 07:18 AM
At one time I thought Adam was more involved in making decisions than it might appear
at first glance but then I noted:
1. Adam left his country to be with Elisa, not the other way around.
2. They lived within a few miles of homes that Elisa had lived in for the past 15 years or so.
They lived in her stomping grounds. He didn't say let's go live in Ohio or California etc.
& move them to a place of his own choosing.
3. He seems to have allowed her complete say-so over his daughter's life and earthly fate.
No news reports that I have read ever mentioned him as having ever slowed
or stayed Elisa's hand from harming Zahra. (Please provide a link if you find evidence to the contrary.
I always like to learn more.)
4. So far the locations where it has been reported that evidence possibly related to this case
was found have been in areas near where Elisa lived in years past and places
she, and not Adam, would have known about.
I realize that any one of these things by itself is not all that much of an indicator
but I think that taken together they might paint a picture of one person being
more of the driving force and the other being content to follow and help with
the muscle work.
I am not saying he was her total slave but I do see a pattern of behavior in their
relationship that seems to point to her being the driving force behind most decisions.
Note: That is not meant to let him off the hook in any way for what has happened but
it might help when people are thinking of where to look for evidence.
I do sort of wonder why he let Elisa seemingly direct things so much.
I think I understand what you are saying and I can relate to being in a foreign country totally dependant on my spouse, who is in familiar territory, and because I knew very few other people, for guidance as to where things are, how to do things, generally help me acclimatise to a new way of life and deal with occasional feelings of alienation, insecurity and ignorance as well as isolation from everyone and everything I knew.
However it stops at allowing him to override my good sense and judgement, dictate to me what I should and should not do or who I should and should not associate with, not that he ever would try to do those things, and be led blindly into doing things I know are wrong.
Fact is, AB, like me, is an adult and he can't 'cop out' of his responsibility for what happened to Zahra because he's a stranger in a strange land and passively allowed someone else to wear the pants and deal with everything on his behalf.
LiveLaughLuv
11-11-2010, 08:56 AM
At one time I thought Adam was more involved in making decisions than it might appear
at first glance but then I noted:
1. Adam left his country to be with Elisa, not the other way around.
2. They lived within a few miles of homes that Elisa had lived in for the past 15 years or so.
They lived in her stomping grounds. He didn't say let's go live in Ohio or California etc.
& move them to a place of his own choosing.
3. He seems to have allowed her complete say-so over his daughter's life and earthly fate.
No news reports that I have read ever mentioned him as having ever slowed
or stayed Elisa's hand from harming Zahra. (Please provide a link if you find evidence to the contrary.
I always like to learn more.)
4. So far the locations where it has been reported that evidence possibly related to this case
was found have been in areas near where Elisa lived in years past and places
she, and not Adam, would have known about.
I realize that any one of these things by itself is not all that much of an indicator
but I think that taken together they might paint a picture of one person being
more of the driving force and the other being content to follow and help with
the muscle work.
I am not saying he was her total slave but I do see a pattern of behavior in their
relationship that seems to point to her being the driving force behind most decisions.
Note: That is not meant to let him off the hook in any way for what has happened but
it might help when people are thinking of where to look for evidence.
I do sort of wonder why he let Elisa seemingly direct things so much.
#3 on your list jumped out at me, Doc...I wonder if AB had left all the rearing to his mother, KB as well. He seems to be disconnected in that department. Does he have the mentality of the woman takes care of the home and children while he brings home the money?
I also wonder if he watched the interaction between EB and Zahra, was Zahra comfortable with and around EB or did she complain to him and he just brushed it off. His initial 911 call was odd to say the least with the puberty and brooding, staying in her room. Is this his assessment or is this what EB had him believe. JMHO
Where is Zahra?
Fyrecat
11-11-2010, 09:10 AM
first of all WELCOME TO WS!!!
Although I doubt this is what really was behind all this I APPRICIATE the THINKING OUT OF THE BOX ! JMO
I very much enjoyed reading this, because it is something we can't discount, really.
I don't know what part AB played it this. Until LE announces what they beleive happened, or until AB or EB says something, I'm sorta watching and waiting.
While I would say that it might not seem likely that AB follows a tribal way, perhaps he does. We know so little about him, or his family, or anything much, really.
I just don't see making monsters til we know what happened.
I think that this man may have been a poor parent, but there isn't any proof yet that he has killed the child.
JMO
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 11:52 AM
#3 on your list jumped out at me, Doc...I wonder if AB had left all the rearing to his mother, KB as well. He seems to be disconnected in that department. Does he have the mentality of the woman takes care of the home and children while he brings home the money?
I also wonder if he watched the interaction between EB and Zahra, was Zahra comfortable with and around EB or did she complain to him and he just brushed it off. His initial 911 call was odd to say the least with the puberty and brooding, staying in her room. Is this his assessment or is this what EB had him believe. JMHO
Where is Zahra?
I have thought about this for a while. He met EB online. She not AB left her homeland to meet. To me that says he was afraid, or not allowed. While there, they became married. If you look at the pictures she looks like a completely different person. Not dark in nature at all. If what is said is correct. She came back to the States first, alone. He followed later with ZB. I am wondering if his whole life, his mother called the shots. Now being away from his mother, EB calls the shots. Once EB was arrested he walked around not knowing what to do. He gave interviews and all that. Once his mother came here. It all stopped. JMO
BritsKate
11-11-2010, 04:25 PM
I have thought about this for a while. He met EB online. She not AB left her homeland to meet. To me that says he was afraid, or not allowed. While there, they became married. If you look at the pictures she looks like a completely different person. Not dark in nature at all. If what is said is correct. She came back to the States first, alone. He followed later with ZB. I am wondering if his whole life, his mother called the shots. Now being away from his mother, EB calls the shots. Once EB was arrested he walked around not knowing what to do. He gave interviews and all that. Once his mother came here. It all stopped. JMO
According to EB's father, MF, it appears AB, EB, and Zahra all moved from Australia together. (Please see quote and link below) FWIW, I met my husband online and he visited me first. Nothing nefarious...I had munchkins to travel with while he didn't and I didn't even have a passport while he did. It could be something that mundane that made her travel to him rather than vice versa. JMHO
Elisa Baker's father, Marshall Fairchild, told News 14 Carolina he never saw any abuse. The Bakers and Zahra lived with him when they moved to NC from Australia from December 19, 2008 to March 2009.
http://charlotte.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/zahra_baker_questions/
docwho3
11-12-2010, 11:06 AM
In a previous post I did not include information from news reports that indicate
that Elisa was in Australia for a time. This was not intentional but since I can't edit
that post I offer this:
I do not know exactly how long she was there but I know one news report mentioned
she had lived in the U.S. as recently as 3 years ago
'. . . than a mile from a home where
Elisa Baker lived three years ago. . .'
http://abcnews.go.com/US/zahra-baker-case-father-arrested-unrelated-charges/story?id=11964372
and another news report says she was met online & invited to visit in 2008
'. . . Adam Baker met her online in early 2008 and invited her to visit. . .'
http://www.wcnc.com/news/zahra-baker/Friends-Missing-girl-had-happy-life-in-Australia-105031914.html
' . . .They were married that July in a small ceremony in Adam Baker's parents' backyard.
In November, they moved to North Carolina. . .' ,
http://www.wcnc.com/news/zahra-baker/Friends-Missing-girl-had-happy-life-in-Australia-105031914.html
She did not go there and make a new life with her husband
but instead seems to have collected him and they moved back to the U.S. where she was
more comfortable.
That is not an evil act but it does seem to be part of a pattern of events centering
around what Elisa wants.
Had Adam a history of allowing strong willed women to have their way
in his life?
I don't know. News reports seem to have much more information about Elisa's past
than about Adam's past.
From the various news reports I have read of their actions both these people seem to
have been deceptive to others. He appeared to be mild and easily led
at times yet agressive and dangerous when it was to his advantage and she tried
to appear to be mild to others (like the betty boop style drawing or tattoo seen in one
news report) and yet had a dark vampire style goth personna underneath that
could lash out when it suited her.
Together both seemingly became a dangerous combination.
The remains seem to have been hidden in areas that were more likely to have been
known to Elisa than to Adam. She had a history in the larger general area dating back
at least 15 years according to news reports.
Adam may have stumbled on some of these locations in his work but in the couple of years
he had been in the U.S. I doubt he had gained intimate knowledge of these same areas
that would equal the knowledge his wife already had from her many years living in the area.
I think it was her mind that came up with the locations for remains.
He may have helped with the misleading 911 call and probably with body disposal but
a certain part of his actions are still unknown/unexplained to my thinking.
Morally both are guilty of a crime, to my thinking, but it is unclear to me at this time what
resposibility each person bears in a legal sense.
One news report said that Adam had been out of town for several days before
Zahra was reported missing and I suppose that might cast doubt on Adam's involvement
but I think the crime & cover up may have happened before he left so it may be a
sort of false alibi.
' . . . We understand Zahra's father, Adam Baker, was out of town working from Thursday
to the time she was reported missing Saturday at 2:30. . . .'
http://charlotte.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/zahra_baker_questions/
It does seem from that same news article that the timeline story has changed over time
so that would seem to be a red flag.
reasypeasy
11-13-2010, 02:43 AM
From previous location:
Even if Adam does have some minute drop of Aboriginal blood running through his veins, I hardly see him as anyone who maintained aboriginal traditions to this degree (or any degree actually). Look forward to him attempting to play this one in court however when he tries to explain the fact that he dismembered his precious daughter, not to avoid detection (oh no) but to practice his own cultural traditions.
Don't think the jury is going to buy that either.
I agree with that. For almost a decade I worked for Centrelink and one of the things I did a lot of was provide early payments to Aboriginal people seeking to attend their relative's funerals. Even the most culturally dedicated Aboriginal people were inclined to have a standard funeral with a funeral director in charge. I would not assume that the sort of Aboriginal person who was still doing other cultural practices that seem extreme, like ritual scarring and the various circumcision practices, would dispose of a body in a traditional manner. That is part of their cultures that exists pretty much only in an historical sense now. Maybe it might occur if someone died way out in the bush amongst older folks who still speak the language... but I'd be very surprised at it happening even then.
Given their other beliefs about death and deceased people it really isn't surprising they were quickly willing to hand disposal of bodies over to professionals and stop doing it themselves. And the influence of the church missions would have greatly encouraged them to do so.
Lera213
11-13-2010, 03:03 AM
No way I will sit here and give reason's as to why AB/EB did this. There is no justification for it...Zip! Zero! They are just evil, plain and simple.
Nosee_Parker
11-13-2010, 07:38 AM
I also think this is fascinating. I always felt that they come up with something
ritual.
There is no proof of AB being Aboriginal Austria. He sure don't look like he is.
Even if he claims to be of that descent it just fits with EB wanting to be a vampire. Theses two were made for each other. All I seen and read they did not want to be normal:banghead:
There are a lot of second, third, fourth generation indigenous Australians who don't look indigenous (if that makes sense). Unfortunately for our true and proud indigenous folk, it seems to be the 'in' thing at the moment to claim aboriginal heritage. (I have a feeling the term aboriginal is becoming less acceptable also).
If there are claims of AB being indigenous, that's irrelevant in my opinion. He could be blue blood British for all I care, the simple fact is he didn't protect his child.
carbuff
11-13-2010, 10:49 AM
It's like so many other cases -- there's a story that has come out in the media, which might or might not be true, and there's whatever really happened. I'm going to wait to see what the real evidence is before I jump to a conclusion.
wfgodot
11-13-2010, 12:06 PM
It is perhaps noteworthy that Zahra's remains were found by Gunpowder Creek - and there's a Gunpowder Creek in Queensland, where AB lived and worked, though the creek, which is a major attraction for outdoorsmen, is many hours from Giru.
http://maps.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=211103&cmd=sp
Mountain_Kat
11-13-2010, 12:51 PM
It is perhaps noteworthy that Zahra's remains were found by Gunpowder Creek - and there's a Gunpowder Creek in Queensland, where AB lived and worked, though the creek, which is a major attraction for outdoorsmen, is many hours from Giru.
http://maps.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=211103&cmd=sp
I've seen several reports saying the remains were found at Gunpowder Creek, but only one report that lists the creek name correctly. It was Little River, not Gunpowder Creek. We figured this out while trying to map it in the SAR thread.
JMO based on actual maps of area.
wfgodot
11-13-2010, 01:05 PM
I've seen several reports saying the remains were found at Gunpowder Creek, but only one report that lists the creek name correctly. It was Little River, not Gunpowder Creek. We figured this out while trying to map it in the SAR thread.
JMO based on actual maps of area.
Little River is also an Australian waterway, though it's in Victoria.
lollipop3
11-14-2010, 02:03 AM
I don't know if he was involved in killing Zahra but from news reports he certainly let Elisa do whatever she wanted to her.
Nosee_Parker
11-14-2010, 04:32 AM
I've posted in another thread, maybe worth posting the news article link here given the topic being discussed.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/breaking-news/zahra-bakers-mother-tells-of-her-anguish/story-e6frea73-1225953441699
docwho3
11-14-2010, 03:18 PM
Perhaps if a forceful dark haired female member of LE were to interrogate Adam he might
tell what he knows? Probably just a long shot.
tlcya
11-14-2010, 03:37 PM
Perhaps if a forceful dark haired female member of LE were to interrogate Adam he might
tell what he knows? Probably just a long shot.
interesting idea. I am certainly not dismissing it out of hand, thats for sure.
panthera
11-14-2010, 03:42 PM
Perhaps if a forceful dark haired female member of LE were to interrogate Adam he might
tell what he knows? Probably just a long shot.
It wouldn't be unheard of. MOO
lauriej
11-16-2010, 02:53 PM
--when AB goes to court on the 18th and 19th, could he be looking at jail time and if so, how much ? all counts are misdemeanors.
nov.18--caldwell county:
..five counts of worthless checks, three counts of communicating threats,assault with a deadly weapon, and one count of failure to return rental property.
nov.19--catawba county:
..four counts of worthless checks
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/oct/30/warrants-served-adam-baker-while-jail-ar-495586/
JoeFromLB
11-16-2010, 03:00 PM
Perhaps if a forceful dark haired female member of LE were to interrogate Adam he might
tell what he knows? Probably just a long shot.
LOL. I have someone like Emily Prentiss in mind (Criminal Minds).
burbqueen
11-16-2010, 03:11 PM
OK so you mean to tell me EB killed, dismembered ZB, dumped her body at different locations and she possibly used equipment to do it and AB was oblivious to all of this???? Riiiiight. I dont care what evidence does or doesnt come out no one can convince me that AB didnt at least know what happened and went with the story EB made up. He's just as guilty IMO.
JoeFromLB
11-16-2010, 04:20 PM
There is no way EB did this all by her lonesome. No way, no how.
I am completely on the other side of the fence here lol.
Everyone thinks EB was the one in control, the one who committed murder and Adam was a deer caught in headlights. *I* think HE was the one in control, the one who did the dirty work.
If you listen to EB's 911 call, she is frantic and a nervous wreck. You can hear it in her voice. When you listen to AB's 911 call, he's calmer than anyone I've ever heard or seen. If I heard that phone call not knowing the case, I'd think he was prank calling the police.
I've seen more than one picture of EB with a black eye. It is possible he was abusive and she took it out on Z.
Here's one (can't find the other):
http://wbtv.images.worldnow.com/images/13329351_BG4.jpg
This guy is NOT innocent and nothing will ever change my mind. This is the guy who tried to run a couple off of the road. Normal, sane people, don't do that.
Mountain_Kat
11-16-2010, 07:29 PM
I honestly don't think either one of them was in control. I think they both FOUGHT for control, though.
NoeticSoul
11-16-2010, 07:39 PM
Bumped from the news thread:
OMG! wbtv just said AB breaks his silence!! He answers all questions exclusively for WBTV NEWS! It will air tonight. Reporter said to just have spent 90 minutes with him.
ETA (thanks lauriej!)
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13515299
Tonight at 11 p.m: Adam Baker Speaks with WBTV
I guess we will soon find out!
justus4all
11-16-2010, 07:46 PM
OK so you mean to tell me EB killed, dismembered ZB, dumped her body at different locations and she possibly used equipment to do it and AB was oblivious to all of this???? Riiiiight. I dont care what evidence does or doesnt come out no one can convince me that AB didnt at least know what happened and went with the story EB made up. He's just as guilty IMO.
I agree with your comment...
Especially with the dismembering of her...
WARNING...GRAPHIC...
IMO....It would take someone...with considerable muscular ability and strength...like a man...would have...to...physically ....use tools ..with enough exertion and force......and for moving her around ...while committing the evil deed....NOT SAYING...she didn't have a role in it as well...for the "easier" parts....But DEFINATELY...she had help .....
AND for the lifting ...as well....as the physical act of digging holes...and carrying bags/containers...of her.....She had help.....
Sorry again...It is just soooooooo sad and sick.......all in my own opinion...
Harmony2
11-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Tonight at 11 pm: Adam Baker Speaks with WBTV
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13515299
ETA: ooops sorry Noeticsoul... I did not see your post with the same link.
epiphany
11-16-2010, 07:57 PM
Well, if no one's likely to be charged anytime soon, what could he possibly have to say?
SNIPPED: Like was he involved in Zahra's death? And did he help hide his own daughter's body? He did not hold anything back.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13515299
passionflower
11-16-2010, 08:01 PM
#182 post by HARMONY
1st time I ever sw AB tatoo on left arm...........
what is it????
passionflower
11-16-2010, 08:04 PM
Well, if no one's likely to be charged anytime soon, what could he possibly have to say?
SNIPPED: Like was he involved in Zahra's death? And did he help hide his own daughter's body? He did not hold anything back.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13515299
I can hardly wait to hear him say how nutty and evil EB is/was and he is so abused and afraid of her.
I bet he says "I dunno" 10 times and that he was at "werk"
IMO
DLT88
11-16-2010, 08:17 PM
Tonight at 11 pm: Adam Baker Speaks with WBTV
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13515299
ETA: ooops sorry Noeticsoul... I did not see your post with the same link.
Wow, neither have I. Thanks so much for posting it. Zahra looks to be a couple years younger in this pic than the age she was when she died. She certainly looks carefree and like she's having fun. EB was probably jealous of their relationship and she but an end to it.
justus4all
11-16-2010, 08:23 PM
I can hardly wait to hear him say how nutty and evil EB is/was and he is so abused and afraid of her.
I bet he says "I dunno" 10 times and that he was at "werk"
IMO
IMO...I would think if he DID say that.....that he WAS abused by her and that he IS afraid of her.....there may be some truth in that...
IMO...IF he was FORCED to participate..by EB..in the murder/dismemberment/burial of his daughter....by her possible threats...to him..that she would do the same to him..if he resisted...
I AM NOT SAYING...he is NOT guilty
...BUT...just saying this here..
Some men become "slaves" for their women...particularly women who dominate them/intimidate them/whom they fear....they will commit acts/become subserviant to their requests/demands/orders...you know what I mean....to keep theirwomen's love....like a "reward" for obeying them...
There could have been a relationship like that in them...
She seems aggressive..assertive..demanding...and he seems low key and just let her...."boss' him around...because she could..and maybe ...did..
IF THAT WAS THEIR RELATIONSHIP.....EB could have...MADE/threaten..AB..to help..in the killing of Z....and to further commit the horrible aftermath...
I could be wrong and probably am, but this comes to mind..regarding your post....It could be possible..
He NOW...may be...very afraid of her....Just like Z was....moo....
westsidefox64
11-16-2010, 08:30 PM
Wow, neither have I. Thanks so much for posting it. Zahra looks to be a couple years younger in this pic than the age she was when she died. She certainly looks carefree and like she's having fun. EB was probably jealous of their relationship and she but an end to it.
JMO It looks to have been taken the same time as the choppy haircut photos seen before. Shes wearing the same shirt. Gotta love that smile!
epiphany
11-16-2010, 08:31 PM
Doesn't look battered and abused like Hedda Nussbaum did, though. Not buying it. But I'm open to him giving orders like Bia--Post #178 above.
epiphany
11-16-2010, 08:36 PM
#182 post by HARMONY
1st time I ever sw AB tatoo on left arm...........
what is it????
Hula dancer?
Nana46
11-16-2010, 08:43 PM
Bumped from the news thread:
ETA (thanks lauriej!)
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13515299
Tonight at 11 p.m: Adam Baker Speaks with WBTV
I guess we will soon find out!
OMG for real? So help me out here...does he have a lawyer? Why on earth would a lawyer let him speak at this point in time??? OMG
WhyaDuck?
11-16-2010, 08:47 PM
Holy smokes, just catching up with the news that AB is doing an interview! Please, someone start a thread for this interview so we can collect the transcripts and video for archival purposes - but try to hold off posting there until the show airs, please.
ETA: Thanks Noetic for taking care of this!
simlyme
11-16-2010, 08:52 PM
Wow, neither have I. Thanks so much for posting it. Zahra looks to be a couple years younger in this pic than the age she was when she died. She certainly looks carefree and like she's having fun. EB was probably jealous of their relationship and she but an end to it.
First thing I noticed was the bruise(knot) on Zahras forehead.
NoeticSoul
11-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Holy smokes, just catching up with the news that AB is doing an interview! Please, someone start a thread for this interview so we can collect the transcripts and video for archival purposes - but try to hold off on it until the show airs, please.
Good idea!
11.16.10 at 11 p.m Adam Baker Speaks with WBTV - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
justus4all
11-16-2010, 08:57 PM
It will be interesting....to hear/see...what he has to say...in this interview...
Undoubtably, he will put the focus....back on her....
She is out to nail him to the wall......to take him down.....
Just his freedom of giving an interview ...should send her...into a rage....
He is out...free...walking around...and giving interviews...and she is locked up behind bars..She "feels" she is "helping" the LE..told them information...but STILL locked up.....and he has done....NOTHING..to help..Led the LE no where.....BUT HE HAS HIS FREEDOM...
Yes...this interview...whatever he says...might cause fireworks.....all in my own opinion
Wise Old Owl
11-16-2010, 09:06 PM
Well if this reporter spent 90 minutes with him - wonder how many minutes that will translate to us?
WhyaDuck?
11-16-2010, 09:08 PM
Please do not post pictures of minors on WS, except those of the victims/missing children. It is against WS policy, and unsafe.
Please alert this whenever you see it.
drivinmebonkers
11-16-2010, 09:38 PM
I am completely on the other side of the fence here lol.
Everyone thinks EB was the one in control, the one who committed murder and Adam was a deer caught in headlights. *I* think HE was the one in control, the one who did the dirty work.
If you listen to EB's 911 call, she is frantic and a nervous wreck. You can hear it in her voice. When you listen to AB's 911 call, he's calmer than anyone I've ever heard or seen. If I heard that phone call not knowing the case, I'd think he was prank calling the police.
I've seen more than one picture of EB with a black eye. It is possible he was abusive and she took it out on Z.
Here's one (can't find the other):
http://wbtv.images.worldnow.com/images/13329351_BG4.jpg
This guy is NOT innocent and nothing will ever change my mind. This is the guy who tried to run a couple off of the road. Normal, sane people, don't do that.
I don't post here much, I lurk a lot. I agree with you mostly. I too believe he is the one that dismembered her, I don't believe either one killed her. The media painted a ugly picture of her in all of our minds, we heard stories, saw myspace, facebook, and she has a past. What about Adam. Would we think differently if the shoe was on the other foot? Yes, he is quiet.
IMO I'm very upset he is not in jail let alone allowed to pollute our TV screens with lies because his back is against the wall. Poor Adam can't go anywhere in Hickory without looking over his shoulder. So, let's go on TV and tell lies maybe people will buy it and next time I'm at Food Lion I won't have to worry about being confronted or worse.
Makes me sick to my stomach! I think this guy hacked her up and Elisa helped dispose of her ...Just My Opinion. Now back to lurking or disappearing.:twocents:
Mountain_Kat
11-16-2010, 10:22 PM
Umm...whatcha quotin' from there, TL? ;)
WhyaDuck?
11-16-2010, 10:32 PM
Umm...whatcha quotin' from there, TL? ;)
I think those posts were meant for the Levi Page show thread. I am moving them over.
ETA: Done. If I was wrong there, TL, let me know.
Mountain_Kat
11-16-2010, 10:38 PM
I think those posts were meant for the Levi Page show thread. I am moving them over.
ETA: Done. If I was wrong there, TL, let me know.
Thank goodness. I thought TL had finally gone over the edge! ;)
tlcya
11-16-2010, 10:44 PM
what the heck? How did they end up here???
ty MK,
OT I hate when laptop decides all by itself to "recover" a tab.
Mountain_Kat
11-16-2010, 10:49 PM
what the heck? How did they end up here???
ty MK,
OT I hate when laptop decides all by itself to "recover" a tab.
O/T
Not me, I love it when that happens. That's the only genuine laugh I've had all day. :crazy:
tlcya
11-16-2010, 10:51 PM
*raspberry* :P:
tlcya
11-17-2010, 12:02 AM
ty whyaduck, I misidentified my rescuer earlier :blush:
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 12:04 AM
ty whyaduck, I misidentified my rescuer earlier :blush:
Just doing my duty, TL. ;)
(Almost wrote you a ticket for posting under the influence, though. :nono: )
tlcya
11-17-2010, 12:05 AM
In light of Zahra's father, Adam Baker's, interview this evening, 11-16-10 on WBTV.com, do our views change? Are they more dug in than ever?
Please remember to post respectfully of others, even if differing in opinion.
Tell me what you think and why. You may quote other's posts if they have given you a bouncing off spot for your own thought or opinon but at all times, please remember TOS.
Nana46
11-17-2010, 12:06 AM
I asked this on the other thread...has anybody heard AB ask ONE time if anyone was searching for his missing daughter through all this??? Nada not me.....where the hello is his outrage that she is dead, murdered and dissected and thrown out like garbage??? How can he sit there and calmly give a frigging interview???????:furious: Now I want to just hit something again. I gotta quit this.
tlcya
11-17-2010, 12:07 AM
Just doing my duty, TL. ;)
(Almost wrote you a ticket for posting under the influence, though. :nono: )
funny thing is, I didn't pour a glass of wine til after that wierd posting moving thingy happened. lol. sigh, maybe the effects of a long day.
which will end soon with a plumped pillow ;)
NoeticSoul
11-17-2010, 12:10 AM
In light of Zahra's father, Adam Baker's, interview this evening, 11-16-10 on WBTV.com, do our views change? Are they more dug in than ever?
Please remember to post respectfully of others, even if differing in opinion.
Tell me what you think and why. You may quote other's posts if they have given you a bouncing off spot for your own thought or opinon but at all times, please remember TOS.
No anger. No outrage. No REAL emotion. Nothing said about Zahra's birthday today. Avoidance of a direct answer to a specific question about dismemberment. Always looking away and down. Monotone voice.
He's deeply involved.. and should be held accountable ASAP. IMHO
tlcya
11-17-2010, 12:11 AM
g'night all. Look forward to seeing everyone's thoughts tomorrow.
tlcya
11-17-2010, 12:12 AM
the aw shucks likability, distancing himself without anger or rage at what EB must have done to and with his daughter without him, if he is to believed.
*shakes head, puzzled"
JoeFromLB
11-17-2010, 12:16 AM
I asked this on the other thread...has anybody heard AB ask ONE time if anyone was searching for his missing daughter through all this??? Nada not me.....where the hello is his outrage that she is dead, murdered and dissected and thrown out like garbage??? How can he sit there and calmly give a frigging interview???????:furious: Now I want to just hit something again. I gotta quit this.
I've never seen someone so detached in my life. He's been so flat and dull, it's uncanny.
This whole case is screwy. Something's missing here, imo, but for the life of me I can't imagine what it might be. Perhaps I don't want to imagine the possibilities...
Pondering Mind
11-17-2010, 12:21 AM
Somebody help me with this please..Let me say first and foremost that I'm still pondering exactly what role I believe Adam has played/is playing in this nightmare...but I absolutely believe that Adam KNOWS exactly what happened..and pretty sure in my mind that he had a hand in at least dismemberment and disposal..
I've heard his 911 call be explained away..can anyone actually explain away his lack of outrage..his apparent lack of horror at what was done to his daughter? I see at man that is acting the way he thinks that he is supposed to be acting..and doing a horrible job at it imho!!! :furious:..If he REALLY had no idea what fate had befallen his precious daughter and just found that info out when ED did..and this is all he can muster???
Nana46
11-17-2010, 12:23 AM
I've never seen someone so detached in my life. He's been so flat and dull, it's uncanny.
This whole case is screwy. Something's missing here, imo, but for the life of me I can't imagine what it might be. Perhaps I don't want to imagine the possibilities...
I know!! You are correct....he is dull....shock? I dunno. I have told you all before I lost a child due to him being hit by a car....so I know what a horrid grief it is to lose a child..but this guy is.............different. I do not get it. Why is he not screaming?:banghead:
Nana46
11-17-2010, 12:24 AM
somebody help me with this please..let me say first and foremost that i'm still pondering exactly what role i believe adam has played/is playing in this nightmare...but i absolutely believe that adam knows exactly what happened..and pretty sure in my mind that he had a hand in at least dismemberment and disposal..
I've heard his 911 call be explained away..can anyone actually explain away his lack of outrage..his apparent lack of horror at what was done to his daughter? I see at man that is acting the way he thinks that he is supposed to be acting..and doing a horrible job at it imho!!! :furious:..if he really had no idea what fate had befallen his precious daughter and just found that info out when ed did..and this is all he can muster???
bingo!!!
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 12:24 AM
Somebody help me with this please..Let me say first and foremost that I'm still pondering exactly what role I believe Adam has played/is playing in this nightmare...but I absolutely believe that Adam KNOWS exactly what happened..and pretty sure in my mind that he had a hand in at least dismemberment and disposal..
I've heard his 911 call be explained away..can anyone actually explain away his lack of outrage..his apparent lack of horror at what was done to his daughter? I see at man that is acting the way he thinks that he is supposed to be acting..and doing a horrible job at it imho!!! :furious:..If he REALLY had no idea what fate had befallen his precious daughter and just found that info out when ED did..and this is all he can muster???
I have said this many times - I put no stock in how people appear when handling tragedy. If really innocent, he could well be in shock or deeply depressed in a way that just doesn't show emotion. Someone guilty could just as easily act outraged.
Not saying this is what I believe - just saying that people react differently under stress.
ETA: He could be medicated, etc, as well, for all we know.
Pondering Mind
11-17-2010, 12:26 AM
I've never seen someone so detached in my life. He's been so flat and dull, it's uncanny.
This whole case is screwy. Something's missing here, imo, but for the life of me I can't imagine what it might be. Perhaps I don't want to imagine the possibilities...
bbm~
I have said that from the beginning. I think we only know the tip of the iceberg of what these 2 are capable of.. I believe Zahra's life was horrifying beyond where our imagination can safely go..
NoeticSoul
11-17-2010, 12:28 AM
OT/ (Well, not about the interview)
I would REALLY like to know if AB was an experienced hunter at any point in his life. I cannot get past wondering that. It also could be a very damning bit of information to know, for sure. Wouldn't it?
If he was, then dismembering wouldn't effect him as it would most people.
sreshowtime
11-17-2010, 12:32 AM
He is too blah. And if medicated, why on earth would his attorney let him speak under those circumstances??
If he went to the Susan Smith School of Acting, he better ask for a refund...in my book the classes failed him...she did a better job of 'grief' and she was guilty!! and he is too...of something.
Sin City
11-17-2010, 12:34 AM
OT/ (Well, not about the interview)
I would REALLY like to know if AB was an experienced hunter at any point in his life. I cannot get past wondering that. It also could be a very damning bit of information to know, for sure. Wouldn't it?
If he was, then dismembering wouldn't effect him as it would most people.
I don't know about this, as my husband trapped and skinned wildlife throughout his childhood to sell the pelts. My husband could never do anything like this to a human.
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 12:36 AM
OT/ (Well, not about the interview)
I would REALLY like to know if AB was an experienced hunter at any point in his life. I cannot get past wondering that. It also could be a very damning bit of information to know, for sure. Wouldn't it?
If he was, then dismembering wouldn't effect him as it would most people.
I have seen this come up a couple times. I assume it is b/c of the question of the skill involved in dismemberment (not b/c of the ability to kill, etc)?
I am not so sure it takes skill to dismember if you are not concerned about the outcome other than the remains being in pieces.
Pondering Mind
11-17-2010, 12:37 AM
I have said this many times - I put no stock in how people appear when handling tragedy. If really innocent, he could well be in shock or deeply depressed in a way that just doesn't show emotion. Someone guilty could just as easily act outraged.
Not saying this is what I believe - just saying that people react differently under stress.
ETA: He could be medicated, etc, as well, for all we know.
WhyaDuck, you know that I respect you immensely :blowkiss: and I know you are right and would agree with you if it were just that..but looking at him..I'm not seeing depression or shock..I'm not even sure what I'm seeing, but I'm a firm believer that the eyes are windows to the soul..and his eyes just look cold.. to me. ..jmho..fwiw :)
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 12:39 AM
WhyaDuck, you know that I respect you immensely :blowkiss: and I know you are right and would agree with you if it were just that..but looking at him..I'm not seeing depression or shock..I'm not even sure what I'm seeing, but I'm a firm believer that the eyes are windows to the soul..and his eyes just look cold.. to me. ..jmho..fwiw :)
Right back at you, PM. But I am also a firm believer that there are many things that cloud those windows to the soul, and without knowing him before this, I cannot say much on that subject.
But it's all conjecture and perspective, so one's as good as another, eh?
Sin City
11-17-2010, 12:43 AM
I have seen this come up a couple times. I assume it is b/c of the question of the skill involved in dismemberment (not b/c of the ability to kill, etc)?
I am not so sure it takes skill to dismember if you are not concerned about the outcome other than the remains being in pieces.
If AB is responsible for the dismemberment I wonder if he even remembers doing it? Would his mind even allow him to remember something so terrible? Would he have to be doing some heavy duty drugs to allow him to dismember? I'm having such a hard time wrapping my mind around this.
Pondering Mind
11-17-2010, 12:50 AM
Right back at you, PM. But I am also a firm believer that there are many things that cloud those windows to the soul, and without knowing him before this, I cannot say much on that subject.
But it's all conjecture and perspective, so one's as good as another, eh?
I really do realize that people react differently..and I guess Nana, myself and others that have lost a child DO think of our grief, which could tend to cloud (although I speak only for myself)..but even we grieved differently I'm sure..so it's not so much even what I'm seeing on the outside, if that makes any sense. It's like he's devoid of any emotion..sadness, grief, outrage..etc...IDK, he's an odd one that's for sure..
JoeFromLB
11-17-2010, 12:58 AM
If AB is responsible for the dismemberment I wonder if he even remembers doing it? Would his mind even allow him to remember something so terrible? Would he have to be doing some heavy duty drugs to allow him to dismember? I'm having such a hard time wrapping my mind around this.
This might seem off the wall, but I wonder if EB/AB are protecting a third individual, or group of people.
Just a (strong) feeling on my part, but everything we've seen so far could be just the tip of the iceberg. This case is just plain screwy on so many levels.
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 01:00 AM
I really do realize that people react differently..and I guess Nana, myself and others that have lost a child DO think of our grief, which could tend to cloud (although I speak only for myself)..but even we grieved differently I'm sure..so it's not so much even what I'm seeing on the outside, if that makes any sense. It's like he's devoid of any emotion..sadness, grief, outrage..etc...IDK, he's an odd one that's for sure..
I wasn't speaking of *you* being clouded, but him.
Pondering Mind
11-17-2010, 01:06 AM
I wasn't speaking of *you* being clouded, but him.
LOL, and I didn't take it as that..I'm constantly questioning myself as to whether my experiences DO cloud my judgment. I try not to let it, but it is easier said than done at times..
Cinderella.
11-17-2010, 01:31 AM
This is my opinion on adams involvement. I believe Zahra died of some kind of medical neglect. IMO, more than likely an infection from her prosthetic not fitting correctly. I think that they watched her die a didn't give a darn about her being sick. Then they dismembered her in the bathroom/kitchen. I don't think they did it on the bed because the blood stains would have been SUPER obvious and anyone who saw it in the dumpster, the people who emptied it, dump workers, etc... Would have notified LE about a mattress soaked in blood. Its very likely that they left her on the bed for sometime after she died though.
I think the fact that there was a new mattress in the house PROVES AB was in on at least the disposal of her body. I doubt (correct me if I'm wrong locals!) there is a 24 hour furniture store where EB could have purchased a new mattress the night Z "went missing". Don't even get me started on all else EB would have had to do alone in such a short amount of time. Noooo way.
My belief is that she was beaten to death, by both and they were equally involved in disposal of her body. I also believe she had been enduring abuse, possibly even sexual, for some time. I think they were heavy into drugs and are both really messed up in the head.. living some sick fantasy life. Sadly, I also believe we will never know the details of her death or what she was going through prior to her death. I think they will both be convicted, but will claim innocence to the bitter end.
Scamperoo
11-17-2010, 02:46 AM
In light of Zahra's father, Adam Baker's, interview this evening, 11-16-10 on WBTV.com, do our views change? Are they more dug in than ever?
Please remember to post respectfully of others, even if differing in opinion.
Tell me what you think and why. You may quote other's posts if they have given you a bouncing off spot for your own thought or opinon but at all times, please remember TOS.
If I had any doubt they were both responsible that so called in depth interview swept them away. I was 98% sure before, now it's at 100%, his responses were controlled and contrived by his lawyer for sure. He was neither heartbroken nor angry in fact he was devoid of any emotion which does not surprise me.
I don't think somehow he will be taking Zahra home...
bellyup
11-17-2010, 09:31 AM
WARNING...GRAPHIC...
IMO....It would take someone...with considerable muscular ability and strength...like a man...would have...to...physically ....use tools ..with enough exertion and force......and for moving her around ...while committing the evil deed....NOT SAYING...she didn't have a role in it as well...for the "easier" parts....But DEFINATELY...she had help ....
AND for the lifting ...as well....as the physical act of digging holes...and carrying bags/containers...of her.....She had help.....
I am a much smaller woman than EB is and I am not overly fit... but I'm pretty sure that in a rage / with adrenaline pumping I could easily accomplish the feat and in a seemingly short time. When I get PO'ed I'm capable of doing about anything.
Thankfully, I usually channel my anger into mad feats of yard work / gardening or home improvement .... but I don't doubt for a minute that this could have been done by a woman on her own (whether it WAS in this case or not remains to be seen)
bellyup
11-17-2010, 09:34 AM
I asked this on the other thread...has anybody heard AB ask ONE time if anyone was searching for his missing daughter through all this??? Nada not me.....where the hello is his outrage that she is dead, murdered and dissected and thrown out like garbage??? How can he sit there and calmly give a frigging interview???????:furious: Now I want to just hit something again. I gotta quit this.
We don't see what's going on behind the scenes though. I am guess that he was told that EB had given them information back on Oct 22 / 23rd. So he knew that SHE had told them where to look. LE was specific in saying they didn't want "outside" searchers .... so why would be be asking the media for people to look for her ?
bellyup
11-17-2010, 09:38 AM
My belief is that she was beaten to death, by both and they were equally involved in disposal of her body. I also believe she had been enduring abuse, possibly even sexual, for some time. I think they were heavy into drugs and are both really messed up in the head.. living some sick fantasy life. Sadly, I also believe we will never know the details of her death or what she was going through prior to her death. I think they will both be convicted, but will claim innocence to the bitter end.
I think most of your post is a leap ... but the one leap I cannot take is that AB was / is on any major drugs. He may be a pot head but if he were on anything heavy duty we would have seen a change in him with the recent investigation.
catnron
11-17-2010, 09:55 AM
I am a much smaller woman than EB is and I am not overly fit... but I'm pretty sure that in a rage / with adrenaline pumping I could easily accomplish the feat and in a seemingly short time. When I get PO'ed I'm capable of doing about anything.
Thankfully, I usually channel my anger into mad feats of yard work / gardening or home improvement .... but I don't doubt for a minute that this could have been done by a woman on her own (whether it WAS in this case or not remains to be seen)
I feel if AB was involved LE would have already arrested him for sure, it has been long enough that they would know. LE are very smart people and so far they have all been on track from the looks of things.I think he may be mentally challenged a lot.AB reminds me of some of the cases we have seen where I work. In my work I have seen so many people look normal, behave some what normal but as you talk to them and listen you will know different. It is sad but so true, even to look at AB as he speaks there is just something there that you can see that is just not right. I may be all wrong about this.I don't think AB knew anything.
I wish there was more known about the man that gave EB money.
Kamille
11-17-2010, 09:58 AM
I can't get down off the fence yet because I'm a little confused about the timelines that are being thrown around with regards to how much time someone may have have to complete this gruesome task. I realize that in the 911 call AB used the term "we" when stating the time when Zahra was last checked on but he has said that he was actually asleep at the time and took EB's word for it that she was okay and in bed at 2:30am on Saturday. I don't see anything suspicious about him using the term "we" when referring to that 2:30am check, married couples refer to things they do individually as "we" all the time IMO. I would have found it suspicious if he insisted that they both got up out of bed and checked on her because she coughed.
His claim is that he last saw her up and awake on Thursday. Not clear as to when that would have been, before or after work. He also claims to have "looked in her room" after returning from work on Friday and seeing "something in the bed" that he believed was her asleep. He did not go in and disturb or wake her because of this "stomach virus" that she supposedly had. Those claims were made very early on, right after EB was arrested.
If he is truly not involved, then everything would have had to happen on the Friday while he was supposedly at work. Don't know what time he was supposed to have left for work on that Friday but he did say that he got home late and Zahra was already asleep. So he could have been gone for 12-15 hours that day for all we know.
All of it is plausible to me except for that mattress and the fact that the dogs hit in two different vehicles. We now know that the mattress tip was from EB, which is unfortunate because if other witnesses had reported it there would be an exact date when it was removed/replaced and if it were prior to that Thursday and the mattress does show evidence of Zahra being deceased then it would point directly at AB as being involved. But because as far as we know the only person who knew about that mattress being dumped was EB, that could have been the last task that she had to accomplish after AB went to sleep on the Friday night because she needed the larger vehicle to get rid of the mattress. After returning from that, she could have started the ransom note/fire caper.
With what we know right now, I suppose it is plausible that EB could have done this alone or with the help of a third party. But we don't have the evidence that LE does. And they don't seem to be backing AB in any way so that's where I have a hard time believing in his innocence.
MOO
Aedrys
11-17-2010, 10:03 AM
I can't tell if he has two faces - the sweet innocent son act for mommy dearest and the real AB when mom is not around, or if mom has always been in charge of him, and he just does what she wants him to do, or expects her to do everything for him like Casey Anthony expects of her mom.
On one hand, I can see an act for mommy dearest. I can hear her telling him, just say these things and it will be alright. I know you're innocent. I know you're my precious little boy who could never do anything to hurt a child. I honestly don't know how she could have gone to that house, know about TWO cars with blood with in it, and think he is absolutely innocent, though. Maybe she's blinded by love for her perfect son. But there is another possibility here.
I do wonder if she's another Cindy Anthony. The family takes care of the family. Screw LE. Everyone else is wrong but the family. You don't mess with the family. Is it possible she knows what he did, but like Cindy Anthony, will do anything to keep him out jail and make sure EB stays there instead? Is she more worried about the perception of her son and that as a reflection of herself than justice for Zahra? And AB has let her do everything for him for so long that he's just going with what she wants because that's what he's been trained to do or he just expect mommy dearest to clean up all of his messes?
I really wish we knew more about the dynamic between him and his mother. I think that would tell us A LOT about why he's the way he is. I'm not blaming his mother for what he did, but I swear it seems like a lot of coverup and damage control is going on right now. It bothers me greatly that he wants people to believe he's innocent, but no emotion, no crying out for justice for his daughter, no disgust and nausea at what probably happened to her.
Something is just not right here and it's driving me NUTS. Maybe he's just emotionless and can't feel anything like Dexter, but in a worse way. I don't know, but he does remind of an episode of "Angel", where a demon was trapped in a little boy, and upon being freed, the demon tells Angel he was scared because "There's just NOTHING there."
Aedrys
11-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Bringing my post over from the body language thread:
This interview was obviously arrainged by his attorney, to put some 'good press' about Adam out there. He was most likely told how to dress, how to behave, and attorney was there to advise what could and could not be spoken of.
That said: I didn't see anything that showed Adam as either a killer or a saint.
He reminded me of a couple clients I had. Stoic, fairly unemotional, and passive.
Some men are trained not to show emotion, and he probably is one of them. He may well be under mom's thumb. Tht may be the sort of person he is, a man who lets women run the show.
Of course mom would take up for him. Nothing he does or says will bring Zhara back. I think it's very unreasonable for anyone to expect a mother who's already lost one person in her life she loved to give up another. Whether or not he's responsible in some way, she can't see it that way, and thats the way many people would be, I think. It's normal. How can you believe that your son could do something like that? You can't!
I didn't see anything either way that would indicate what he did, or didn't. I saw a man who's frightened, in shock, and perhaps not too sure of what happened, or how.
BBM. But she's been INSIDE that house. She saw how much the police took out of it. She saw the condition it was in. She knows about two cars that have blood in them. How can she think he had no idea what was going on in his own home? How can she think he had nothing to do with the disposal? It's akin to Cindy Anthony smelling decomp in her daughter's car but is absolutely sure Casey didn't murder Caylee. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I understand a mother's love for her child. But there is too much here for her to ignore it all and think EB is only to blame. This isn't a case where the crime scene is elsewhere. The crime scene is his own home, his own two cars even if the police aren't calling his home the actual crime scene. They took took much out of walls, flooring, and the ceiling for this NOT to be the crime scene. And add the two cars with blood in them, something definitely happened inside that house. There's just NO WAY AB could not know about this or be oblivious to it.
I guess I would have to be his mother to understand how in the heck he could possibly be innocent. And I understand not wanting to believe the worst of someone you love. But there is too much here she's closing her eyes too, and that doesn't sit well with me. And I'm tired of hearing her say we don't understand because we don't know everything. Well then, tell us everything so we can understand!
bellyup
11-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Does anyone have any links on the original assault charges being dismissed and how or why that came about ? We were discussing in another thread, but it more appropriately belongs here.....
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 10:42 AM
If there is not already a thread on a topic that you wish to discuss, please feel free to start one.
eleni777
11-17-2010, 10:49 AM
I am a much smaller woman than EB is and I am not overly fit... but I'm pretty sure that in a rage / with adrenaline pumping I could easily accomplish the feat and in a seemingly short time. When I get PO'ed I'm capable of doing about anything.
Thankfully, I usually channel my anger into mad feats of yard work / gardening or home improvement .... but I don't doubt for a minute that this could have been done by a woman on her own (whether it WAS in this case or not remains to be seen)
Just add HIGH ON METH to this scenerio ..and you'll have someone totally out of their mind irrational, exploding in a fit of uncontrollable RAGE...
Mountain_Kat
11-17-2010, 10:50 AM
Here is the definition of "Dismissal With Leave":
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:YJOQh8EDZCYJ:www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bysection/chapter_15a/gs_15a-932.pdf+dismissal+with+leave&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESixcJMuBaKDRQ_SLQmtKsuWM_t6dqi0HOCTUwY_ j2kt_jJdqOrgUqij89_rgZA8scTHJ0KsDZjtrwGLxdc2XHLlfK 4uQeZG3qpyrO7roXFXsUEYitMbbr5yF5lgP5gOw7UAPjl3&sig=AHIEtbQutd5iZZg2I46Ls0h-DDoeh7Gf6A
So, from what I read, it is basically just the courts removing the case from the dockets because the defendant failed to appear. It is NOT a dismissal of the charges. Those charges can be revisited any time the defendant is located.
So, AB has been located, and he is to appear on those charges on Nov. 18
That's how I read all of this. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Kamille
11-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Does anyone have any links on the original assault charges being dismissed and how or why that came about ? We were discussing in another thread, but it more appropriately belongs here.....
Well I do recall the conversation and some links but it does appear that he is up on those charges in court tomorrow.
http://www1.aoc.state.nc.us/www/calendars.Offense.do?submit=submit&case=1302010051258&court=CR&defendant=BAKER,ADAM,TROY&courtDate=11/18/2010&county=CALDWELL&session=AM&courtRoom=0001
dar107
11-17-2010, 10:58 AM
I think most of your post is a leap ... but the one leap I cannot take is that AB was / is on any major drugs. He may be a pot head but if he were on anything heavy duty we would have seen a change in him with the recent investigation.
I respectfully have to disagree with you there. Plenty of people with major drug addictions walk around, work and function all the while looking pretty normal. I think there was more then pot being smoked. I'm thinking prescription pills and maybe more harder drugs.
Mountain_Kat
11-17-2010, 11:02 AM
I respectfully have to disagree with you there. Plenty of people with major drug addictions walk around, work and function all the while looking pretty normal. I think there was more then pot being smoked. I'm thinking prescription pills and maybe more harder drugs.
Well, if we are to believe BB and her husband (which I personally do) the running off the road incident occurred over a drug debt she owed. If AB did, in fact, try to run them off the road (and we'll see how that pans on on the 18th), then I don't think it's a stretch to think AB really wanted his money.
Just my opinion, of course.
JoeFromLB
11-17-2010, 11:04 AM
I feel if AB was involved LE would have already arrested him for sure, it has been long enough that they would know. LE are very smart people and so far they have all been on track from the looks of things.I think he may be mentally challenged a lot.AB reminds me of some of the cases we have seen where I work. In my work I have seen so many people look normal, behave some what normal but as you talk to them and listen you will know different. It is sad but so true, even to look at AB as he speaks there is just something there that you can see that is just not right. I may be all wrong about this.I don't think AB knew anything.
I wish there was more known about the man that gave EB money.
$10,000 is an awful lot of money to send to someone you've just met on the internet. Unfortunately, we're not permitted to talk about him here at WS, since he may just be an innocent dupe.
The money thing still bothers me, though. I can't shake the suspicion that other people are also involved in this horrific crime.
Kaybug
11-17-2010, 11:12 AM
IMO they are both guilty. Even if Z was found dead or if EB murdered her, AB is guilty of neglect. Unfortunately, in this case, neglect doesn't receive the same sentence murder does.
WhyaDuck?
11-17-2010, 11:18 AM
Hi folks - I noticed some people wondering where various topics go, so I dug up some threads that seem to reflect the streams of conversation going on (or ones that might interest you) to link here for your convenience:
2010.11.03 Third party involved? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Do you guys think AB and EB killed Zahra? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Questions for our VERIFIED LAWYERS*~*~*NO DISCUSSIONS*~*~* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Theories on What Happened to Zahra - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Why is Adam Baker not in jail? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
HTH!
catnron
11-17-2010, 11:21 AM
$10,000 is an awful lot of money to send to someone you've just met on the internet. Unfortunately, we're not permitted to talk about him here at WS, since he may just be an innocent dupe.
The money thing still bothers me, though. I can't shake the suspicion that other people are also involved in this horrific crime.
Thank You for letting me know he is off limits, I did not no this.
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