View Full Version : Zahra Baker Search and Recovery Effort and Input #2
daisy7
11-11-2010, 07:55 AM
Please continue here.
Here is Thread #1
Zahra Baker Search and Recovery Effort and Input - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Please let me know if there are any posts in the first thread that you'd like copied here.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 08:01 AM
Thanks to whoever provided te info on the county-dry ting. Some areas of the country are not familiar with this process, but here in NC it is county by county, as well as some regulations state by state (such as blue laws.) It certainly does make a difference what routes certain people travel. Thanks for that info.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 08:10 AM
Ok just a local update, went by the search site this AM. In the front church parking lot only seen WBTV channel 3 news van. I seen NO law enforcement from the road what so ever. I didnt pull into the church though did drive my little loop around ebenezer and Satterwhite with nothing else seen. The locals at the store above the site said there was bright lights up at the church at 5AM this am...I seen nothing at 7?? Did they search through the night? Can anyone verify this? I am posting some pictures- very amauter might I add. I just thought every little bit helps! Few from yesterday and few from this AM. Heard no helicopters yet. Seen no flags like at Christy Rd (went by several times looking) Wonder if they are guarding the area might it be farther up the stream? Few shots of local streams that this one feeds into and honestly they look average to a little low especially at Icard Dam- I personally wasn't expecting this. I will post more if I hear anything. Will try to go by at lunch if they are at this site again today.
http://s924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/nekoda0903/search%20shots/
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 08:19 AM
Ok just a local update, went by the search site this AM. In the front church parking lot only seen WBTV channel 3 news van. I seen NO law enforcement from the road what so ever. I didnt pull into the church though did drive my little loop around ebenezer and Satterwhite with nothing else seen. The locals at the store above the site said there was bright lights up at the church at 5AM this am...I seen nothing at 7?? Did they search through the night? Can anyone verify this? I am posting some pictures- very amauter might I add. I just thought every little bit helps! Few from yesterday and few from this AM. Heard no helicopters yet. Seen no flags like at Christy Rd (went by several times looking) Wonder if they are guarding the area might it be farther up the stream? Few shots of local streams that this one feeds into and honestly they look average to a little low especially at Icard Dam- I personally wasn't expecting this. I will post more if I hear anything. Will try to go by at lunch if they are at this site again today.
http://s924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/nekoda0903/search%20shots/
What church was this, Shay?
big4dropout
11-11-2010, 08:31 AM
Caldwell was dry until the booze ban was lifted in 2004.
Elphaba
11-11-2010, 08:40 AM
Ok just a local update, went by the search site this AM. In the front church parking lot only seen WBTV channel 3 news van. I seen NO law enforcement from the road what so ever. I didnt pull into the church though did drive my little loop around ebenezer and Satterwhite with nothing else seen. The locals at the store above the site said there was bright lights up at the church at 5AM this am...I seen nothing at 7?? Did they search through the night? Can anyone verify this? I am posting some pictures- very amauter might I add. I just thought every little bit helps! Few from yesterday and few from this AM. Heard no helicopters yet. Seen no flags like at Christy Rd (went by several times looking) Wonder if they are guarding the area might it be farther up the stream? Few shots of local streams that this one feeds into and honestly they look average to a little low especially at Icard Dam- I personally wasn't expecting this. I will post more if I hear anything. Will try to go by at lunch if they are at this site again today.
http://s924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/nekoda0903/search%20shots/
That sounds like your local news station may have been there running morning update reports from the church... bright lights at 5am would coincide with the start of the local morning news.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 08:43 AM
What church was this, Shay?
Dudley Shoals Baptist Church it is located at the intersection of Dudley Shoals Rd and Morris Creek Rd. But its right beside the Gunpowder Creek wich is right beside Burns rd (the search site from yesterday) Supposed to be blocking the roads off and searching again today according to the media this AM and what local businesses have been told.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 08:45 AM
Do we have a former address north of Burns Rd.? Along or just off of Dudley Shoals Rd.? Anyone know off the top of their head?
ETA: nevermind, I just found Writer7's map.
passionflower
11-11-2010, 08:50 AM
anything on the early news???
passionflower
11-11-2010, 08:51 AM
LE working on VETERAN's day tells me allot............
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 09:00 AM
LE working on VETERAN's day tells me allot............
yep....i totally agree
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:02 AM
Ok just a local update, went by the search site this AM. In the front church parking lot only seen WBTV channel 3 news van. I seen NO law enforcement from the road what so ever. I didnt pull into the church though did drive my little loop around ebenezer and Satterwhite with nothing else seen. The locals at the store above the site said there was bright lights up at the church at 5AM this am...I seen nothing at 7?? Did they search through the night? Can anyone verify this? I am posting some pictures- very amauter might I add. I just thought every little bit helps! Few from yesterday and few from this AM. Heard no helicopters yet. Seen no flags like at Christy Rd (went by several times looking) Wonder if they are guarding the area might it be farther up the stream? Few shots of local streams that this one feeds into and honestly they look average to a little low especially at Icard Dam- I personally wasn't expecting this. I will post more if I hear anything. Will try to go by at lunch if they are at this site again today.
http://s924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/nekoda0903/search%20shots/
Thanks for the update, Shay. The media staging area (church) is a little bit aways from the search area, might've been why you didn't see anything secured.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:03 AM
Looking at Writer7's map of former addresses, I don't see any former address listed directly north from Burns Rd. If we have figured out the basic loop, which I think we have (despite slightly different opinions on routes taken), I see no reason for me to search north of the Dudley Shoals/Burns intersection.
I'm going to look for sites along the general loop this morning. Still eyeing that overlook area thingy near Mt. Caramel Church on Christie. If anyone else happens to see anything interesting off of Pine Mountain, Christie, Burns, or Dudley Shoals, please let me know.
LiveLaughLuv
11-11-2010, 09:05 AM
Divers comb creek in search for evidence in Zahra Baker case
Thursday, Nov 11 2010, 8:43 am
WSOC-TV
Investigators spent Wednesday in the Dudley Shoals community of Caldwell County, continuing a month-long search for evidence in the disappearance of 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
Searchers focused on a half-mile stretch of Gunpowder Creek, with divers looking in the water and investigators combing through the banks. Police said something was found during the search, but they did not elaborate as to what it is.
Police have searched the area before, accompanied by Zahra’s stepmother, Elisa Baker. She has been in jail over the course of the investigation, charged with felony obstruction of justice after police said she admitted to writing a phony ransom note the day Zahra was reported missing.
When asked why they returned to the area, police said they wanted to do a more thorough search.
On Tuesday, which marked one month since Zahra was reported missing, investigators searched a wooded area along Indian Grave Road in Caldwell County. More than 30 people were involved in the search, which focused on a one-mile area. Police wouldn’t elaborate on what led them to Indian Grave Road, which is about 10 miles north of where Zahra’s prosthetic leg was found and about 20 miles north of the Bakers’ Hickory home.
more
http://www.shelbystar.com/news/search-51382-zahra-investigators.html
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:06 AM
yep....i totally agree
A fair amount of vets on this case as well. Lets not forget that- many of these people know what it is to search for justice 365 days a year, 24/7 because they have already done their time.
Thank you to all of our LE and SAR- and today, especially those who have already given back so much to our country.
To Zahra's loved ones in Australia....your precious child has not been forgotten by America one bit. :blowkiss:
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:14 AM
Right between Deal Mill and Rebel Run is a large property that looks like it might be for farming or contruction. Barn, storage shed(?), several farm type trucks, tractor trailers (?), lots of clutter. 2 ponds on property, both easily accessible from road.
On opposite side of Deal Mill from this property is what looks like a dirt road that leads to a very large pond.
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 09:17 AM
A fair amount of vets on this case as well. Lets not forget that- many of these people know what it is to search for justice 365 days a year, 24/7 because they have already done their time.
Thank you to all of our LE and SAR- and today, especially those who have already given back so much to our country.
To Zahra's loved ones in Australia....your precious child has not been forgotten by America one bit. :blowkiss:
yeppers......i have 8yrs myself of service....too bad i have to work today....but definitely going to applebees for my "thank you" meal tonight! :dance:
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:24 AM
yeppers......i have 8yrs myself of service....too bad i have to work today....but definitely going to applebees for my "thank you" meal tonight! :dance:
Thank you for your gift to our beautiful country, tk71texas! I have no military time in, but my significant other has 20+ years in SF. If you're in NC, I'll buy you dinner at Applebees any day!
And if you're working this case, then lets you and I join hands for a minute and beg the very ground of the USA to please give this beautiful child back to us so she can be at rest where she belongs.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Right between Deal Mill and Rebel Run is a large property that looks like it might be for farming or contruction. Barn, storage shed(?), several farm type trucks, tractor trailers (?), lots of clutter. 2 ponds on property, both easily accessible from road.
On opposite side of Deal Mill from this property is what looks like a dirt road that leads to a very large pond.
Mountain Kat, is this on google earth or maps? I think I know which you are referring to but it shifts slightly on google earth. And my mapping program has it on the other side of Deal Mill- but then again, it has a tendancy to flip on me. TIA.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:28 AM
Near the intersection of Dudley Shoals Rd. (listed as Fowler) and Bowman rd. is what looks like a paved road that leads a turn around place. No houses that I can see, either on this road or at the end of it. Heavily wooded road to nowhere, looks like.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:29 AM
Mountain Kat, is this on google earth or maps? I think I know which you are referring to but it shifts slightly on google earth. And my mapping program has it on the other side of Deal Mill- but then again, it has a tendancy to flip on me. TIA.
Google earth. I'm looking at it as I go up from Christie Rd. The large body of water is large enough that you can see it even if you aren't zoomed in.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 09:32 AM
Thanks for the update, Shay. The media staging area (church) is a little bit aways from the search area, might've been why you didn't see anything secured.
Yes I know the church is the staging area but there was no LE in the area anywhere, none at the church, the search site, or on the side of the road. And when I mean search site I mean under the bridge or right above the bridge right beside the church where ppl mentioned the piles of dirt and all LE was parked yesterday.I could have drove down to this site this morning straight into the creek if I had wanted....lol. You can stand at the church and see most of that area. They must be at the northern end of the search area or a norther area of the creek- closer to the bend that SARX mentioned yesterday was what I was meaning.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 09:35 AM
Near the intersection of Dudley Shoals Rd. (listed as Fowler) and Bowman rd. is what looks like a paved road that leads a turn around place. No houses that I can see, either on this road or at the end of it. Heavily wooded road to nowhere, looks like.
Yes I seen that too!! I was thinking it looked like what they do before bulding a housing development around here...do a circle at the end then sell the lots off. I meant to look and see if this was built up into new houses since the google pic but I forgot I will put that on my list to pay attention to when i head back at lunch. Or we could look at GIS records might verify houses have been built.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:36 AM
Google earth. I'm looking at it as I go up from Christie Rd. The large body of water is large enough that you can see it even if you aren't zoomed in.
Ok I know which you are referring to. Thanks. It's difficult to transcribe different mapping programs sometimes.
LiveLaughLuv
11-11-2010, 09:36 AM
yeppers......i have 8yrs myself of service....too bad i have to work today....but definitely going to applebees for my "thank you" meal tonight! :dance:
I thank you TK....for your service to our country and a huge (((((HUGS)))))) for your dedication...and to all our countrymen who have fought for not only for OUR freedoms but for those around the world...JMHO
Enjoy your Applebee's Veterans dinner...what a nice thing to do for our vets!
Where is Zahra?
Celt1997
11-11-2010, 09:37 AM
Google earth. I'm looking at it as I go up from Christie Rd. The large body of water is large enough that you can see it even if you aren't zoomed in.
I remember scouting this property on the GIS system. There is a dock on the large pond, so I'm wondering if this is someone's fishing/hunting property. It's well off the road, and, if it is only inhabited during certain times of the year, it would be an ideal place.
However, there is only one way in and out, from what I can see. It would be terribly risky to ride all the way back there, if someone were living on the property at the time.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:37 AM
Yes I know the church is the staging area but there was no LE in the area anywhere, none at the church, the search site, or on the side of the road. And when I mean search site I mean under the bridge or right above the bridge right beside the church where ppl mentioned the piles of dirt and all LE was parked yesterday.I could have drove down to this site this morning straight into the creek if I had wanted....lol. You can stand at the church and see most of that area. They must be at the northern end of the search area or a norther area of the creek- closer to the bend that SARX mentioned yesterday was what I was meaning.
Yes- or elswhere entirely, lol.
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 09:39 AM
rad just tweeted that they moved the search back to christie road
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:40 AM
Yes I seen that too!! I was thinking it looked like what they do before bulding a housing development around here...do a circle at the end then sell the lots off. I meant to look and see if this was built up into new houses since the google pic but I forgot I will put that on my list to pay attention to when i head back at lunch. Or we could look at GIS records might verify houses have been built.
I didn't even think of that, Shay. Makes sense, else why would the road be paved? If you find out anything about it being developed post the goggle pic, can you also pm me, in case I don't see it here? I've got it push-pinned for the time being. Thanks.
SherlockHomey
11-11-2010, 09:43 AM
Shay, this area is close to Tough Enough Rodeo, correct? I think that place is pretty desolate too and you can ride in your car all the way back to the woods to the horse trails. :-(
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:44 AM
rad just tweeted that they moved the search back to christie road
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
Guess it would be too much to hope that they're checking out that pull off/ overlook area near Mt. Caramel Church, huh?
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:44 AM
I didn't even think of that, Shay. Makes sense, else why would the road be paved? If you find out anything about it being developed post the goggle pic, can you also pm me, in case I don't see it here? I've got it push-pinned for the time being. Thanks.
Is this the spot that has the large (in diameter) cement partitions of drainage/water/sewer supplies out?
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Shay, this area is close to Tough Enough Rodeo, correct? I think that place is pretty desolate too and you can ride in your car all the way back to the woods to the horse trails. :-(
Which area are you talking about here, Homey? The construction/farm property or the paved road to nowhere?
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Guess it would be too much to hope that they're checking out that pull off/ overlook area near Mt. Caramel Church, huh?
MK- there's no such thing as too much to hope for. :)
distracted 1976
11-11-2010, 09:45 AM
rad just tweeted that they moved the search back to christie road
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
Wonder if SBI came back with the findings on the bone. :waitasec:
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 09:46 AM
i did that right? paraphrased then the link? don't wanna get a TO
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:47 AM
Is this the spot that has the large (in diameter) cement partitions of drainage/water/sewer supplies out?
Don't see that, but if you find Dudley Shoals Baptist Church on Bowman, and look straight across Fowler Rd. you should see it.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:50 AM
By the way folks, I'm just riding what I believe is our loop and looking as I go. Stab in the dark kinda thing, so feel free to skip my posts if you want. I'm more or less thinking out loud, that's all.
Celt1997
11-11-2010, 09:50 AM
I didn't even think of that, Shay. Makes sense, else why would the road be paved? If you find out anything about it being developed post the goggle pic, can you also pm me, in case I don't see it here? I've got it push-pinned for the time being. Thanks.
If it's the right spot that I'm following, it is called Gaither Lane. GIS shows that it is has been subdivided into 14 lots, but it does not appear that any of them have been sold/developed, as there are no deeds recorded with the GIS system.
SherlockHomey
11-11-2010, 09:54 AM
Which area are you talking about here, Homey? The construction/farm property or the paved road to nowhere?
right here. 35.87748,-81.399894
3205 Oran Yount Ln
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:54 AM
Don't see that, but if you find Dudley Shoals Baptist Church on Bowman, and look straight across Fowler Rd. you should see it.
Okay. Are you referring to the one with the loop? sorry if I missed that reference earlier. Reading fast. Is this East or West for you Kat?
NancyA
11-11-2010, 09:56 AM
Daisy7, please delete this post if necessary, and not questioning why you closed the other thread because it may seem superfluous to have two threads on ostensibly the same topic, but in defense of the other SAR thread it was put up so that Sarx and the people doing such sterling work with the technical aspects of mapping etc in this thread (which btw I'm reading in fascinated admiration while completely at sea as to how they are doing what they are doing) wouldn't have to wade through clusters of other postings about SAR discussion and theorizing in general which while not O/T aren't necessarily relevant to what they are doing here.
Um, that came out a bit confused even to me but I know what i meant, just hope you do.
Thanks
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:56 AM
right here. 35.87748,-81.399894
3205 Oran Yount Ln
Okay, that's not either of the 2 areas I'm talking about. It's pretty interesting, though.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:59 AM
Okay, that's not either of the 2 areas I'm talking about. It's pretty interesting, though.
Kat I know where you're at, I'm just trying to convert to my program so I can get it right on navstar. Is your location on google earth (not streetview- satellite view) E or W of Dudley Shoals?
SherlockHomey
11-11-2010, 09:59 AM
Okay, that's not either of the 2 areas I'm talking about. It's pretty interesting, though.
Sorry, I am behind in reading. I didn't think it was the area you were talking about but it's very accessible and very isolated (especially at night) and on dirt roads. Miles of trails going through the woods too.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:03 AM
Okay. Are you referring to the one with the loop? sorry if I missed that reference earlier. Reading fast. Is this East or West for you Kat?
Paved road that goes straight to a paved circle/turn around space and stops right there. Looks like a therometer (lol).
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 10:06 AM
christie rd is blocked for more searching......via rad
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
http://twitpic.com/35vqhb
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:06 AM
Paved road that goes straight to a paved circle/turn around space and stops right there. Looks like a therometer (lol).
Ok. Gotcha. Thank you. :)
Celt1997
11-11-2010, 10:07 AM
Paved road that goes straight to a paved circle/turn around space and stops right there. Looks like a therometer (lol).
I found a real estate listing for 8 of those lots in that spot. Pay no attention to the map on the real estate page, since it is wrong. The picture for the listing matches the GIS plot outline for the Dudley Shoals/Fowler/Bowman circle perfectly. So it's a definite match.
So, it appears that there has been no development on those properties at all.
http://www.realestatebook.com/homes/listing/101-3000569728/refer=FP14A&aid=95420523&bk=88549
GIS picture attached below.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:08 AM
Kat I know where you're at, I'm just trying to convert to my program so I can get it right on navstar. Is your location on google earth (not streetview- satellite view) E or W of Dudley Shoals?
(Bear with me, I'm new to google earth)
Coordinates are:
35 degrees 51'38.67" N
81 degrees 22'42.04" W
(Does that help?)
daisy7
11-11-2010, 10:09 AM
It seems that there has been some confusion about what the topic of this thread is, though I'm not sure why.
This thread is for all search-related info about Zahra. This includes maps about current and possible search sites as well as updates on the current search.
Please stay on topic. If you have any questions, please send me a PM.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:11 AM
(Bear with me, I'm new to google earth)
Coordinates are:
35 degrees 51'38.67" N
81 degrees 22'42.04" W
(Does that help?)
Perfect, thank you. :)
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:11 AM
I found a real estate listing for 8 of those lots in that spot. Pay no attention to the map on the real estate page, since it is wrong. The picture for the listing matches the GIS plot outline for the Dudley Shoals/Fowler/Bowman circle perfectly. So it's a definite match.
So, it appears that there has been no development on those properties at all.
http://www.realestatebook.com/homes/listing/101-3000569728/refer=FP14A&aid=95420523&bk=88549
GIS picture attached below.
Yep, it's a match. Thanks so much, Celt.
Celt1997
11-11-2010, 10:13 AM
Yep, it's a match. Thanks so much, Celt.
The only thing I notice, though, is that it is divided for 14 lots. That real estate company is only selling 8, so either 6 are listed with another company, or, perhaps, they have started building?
We would need a local to verify that 100%, I guess.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:13 AM
Can someone begin looking (again, *sigh*) at the area b/t Christie, Deal Mill, and Campground?
ETA also between Pine Mnt, Deal Mill and Christie, as well as 321, Pine Mnt and Freezer via Christie. TIA. You guys are awesome.
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 10:13 AM
It seems that there has been some confusion about what the topic of this thread is, though I'm not sure why.
This thread is for all search-related info about Zahra. This includes maps about current and possible search sites as well as updates on the current search.
Please stay on topic. If you have any questions, please send me a PM.
ok? :waitasec:
Kamille
11-11-2010, 10:15 AM
christie rd is blocked for more searching......via rad
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
http://twitpic.com/35vqhb
So are there two searches going on today? :waitasec:
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:16 AM
Okay moving down Dudley Shoals/Fowler (this confuses me, sorry) is a dirt road that leads to a clearing with a MONSTROUS wood pile. There's a creek nearby.
35 degrees 51' 17.72" N
81 degrees 22' 58.53" W
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 10:16 AM
So are there two searches going on today? :waitasec:
it appears thattaway
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:18 AM
ok? :waitasec:
Daisy is saying you're fine, TK. Short updates about search moves are helpful and most welcome here. :)
Peliman
11-11-2010, 10:18 AM
So according to Ray from wcnc they are back at Christy Rd and have it blocked. Shay, our on the ground reporter, any news?
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:19 AM
So are there two searches going on today? :waitasec:
There have been multiple searches going on almost daily, so I venture a yes on that one.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:20 AM
So according to Ray from wcnc they are back at Christy Rd and have it blocked. Shay, our on the ground reporter, any news?
We don't have a clue which part of Christie they've blocked off?
Locals? Help us out, please, if you can.
Kamille
11-11-2010, 10:20 AM
Guess it would be too much to hope that they're checking out that pull off/ overlook area near Mt. Caramel Church, huh?
Did you look at Rad's twitpic? I believe the sign for Mt. Caramel Church is right at the road block.
http://twitpic.com/35vqhb
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:22 AM
Did you look at Rad's twitpic? I believe the sign for Mt. Caramel Church is right at the road block.
http://twitpic.com/35vqhb
HOT DARN!! :)
(Oops...sorry, mods.)
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 10:27 AM
Daisy is saying you're fine, TK. Short updates about search moves are helpful and most welcome here. :)
kinda felt like i was getting yelled at for shouting out to our vets today :waitasec:
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:32 AM
We don't have a clue which part of Christie they've blocked off?
Locals? Help us out, please, if you can.
Pine Mnt, Christy Rd, W of 321. Slightly N up Christy I believe.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:33 AM
kinda felt like i was getting yelled at for shouting out to our vets today :waitasec:
I don't think so- especially cause we have so many working to find Zahra. :)
tfrohning
11-11-2010, 10:36 AM
So according to Ray from wcnc they are back at Christy Rd and have it blocked. Shay, our on the ground reporter, any news?
OT Hey Peliman! How are you?
Twitter is reporting they are back on Christy Rd with road block.
Which I really confused :waitasec:
daisy7
11-11-2010, 10:36 AM
kinda felt like i was getting yelled at for shouting out to our vets today :waitasec:
Not at all. There were 2 search threads, when we only need one. That's it. :blowkiss:
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:40 AM
Pine Mnt, Christy Rd, W of 321. Slightly N up Christy I believe.
Would they block the road from where you're saying they are, all the way up to Mount Caramel Church? That's a whole lot of road. Not seeing any other church along Christie, but maybe I'm just missing it. :waitasec:
Good morning to all of the awesome laptop mappers and sar sleuthers out there! I see things are shifting rapidly.... Any idea why the shift to Christie again? I honestly thought they were done with that area.
Ok, off to go map the area between yesterday's search and today's (that's a big area).
A tip... work the map methodically, take a flight over a section of the road to get a feel for it and then start zooming in. Look for those pull outs/wide shoulders/dirt roads/etc. Some of them can be really hard to see until you get zoomed in pretty tight. Water is always good, bridges, etc. If they are expanding, there's a reason.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 10:44 AM
Did you look at Rad's twitpic? I believe the sign for Mt. Caramel Church is right at the road block.
http://twitpic.com/35vqhb
No thats a sign there isnt a big building like that at the end where the church is. Give me a few and i can tell you where this photo is. I may be able to do some traveling towards the area within the hour.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 10:47 AM
News helicopter heading to what looks like christie area so should be some footage soon. It was a white one which I think is wsoc so keep looking on their website for any chopper updates.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 10:50 AM
Oh another tip from yesterday I didnt mention. There is a dirt road on christie Rd heading from deal mill on the right after the pulloff mentioned and the driveway to the trailer (same side as church) it looks like a possible area on google but it is gated and no way 4 wheel drive can enter it. So you can add that to your map.
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 10:50 AM
Good morning to all of the awesome laptop mappers and sar sleuthers out there! I see things are shifting rapidly.... Any idea why the shift to Christie again? I honestly thought they were done with that area.
Ok, off to go map the area between yesterday's search and today's (that's a big area).
A tip... work the map methodically, take a flight over a section of the road to get a feel for it and then start zooming in. Look for those pull outs/wide shoulders/dirt roads/etc. Some of them can be really hard to see until you get zoomed in pretty tight. Water is always good, bridges, etc. If they are expanding, there's a reason.
no just what rad reported but nothing to indicate why
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:50 AM
Would they block the road from where you're saying they are, all the way up to Mount Caramel Church? That's a whole lot of road. Not seeing any other church along Christie, but maybe I'm just missing it. :waitasec:
They might not block the entire road but you'll see there are intersections, so they might block the roads down around the intersections if they need to search within, say, a triangle area. Or they might move and block farther out if there's no other way to bypass the area (no other accessible roads.) Make sense?
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:50 AM
No thats a sign there isnt a big building like that at the end where the church is. Give me a few and i can tell you where this photo is. I may be able to do some traveling towards the area within the hour.
Okay, I think Oriah is exactly right. The tweet pic with Mount Caramel Church sign (pointing up Christie) is on the corner of Pine Mountain and Christie, imo. Looking at Google earth, I can see the white trailer and what I think is a stop sign.
Kamille
11-11-2010, 10:50 AM
No thats a sign there isnt a big building like that at the end where the church is. Give me a few and i can tell you where this photo is. I may be able to do some traveling towards the area within the hour.
By looking at google maps, I think that road block in Rad's picture is right at the corner of Pine Mountain and Christy. That building looks like the one right on the corner. I think the sign just points down Christy saying that the church is down there and has been added since the google picture was taken.
MOO
Kamille
11-11-2010, 10:52 AM
Okay, I think Oriah is exactly right. The tweet pic with Mount Caramel Church sign (point up Christie) is on the corner of Pine Mountain and Christie. Looking at Google, I can see the white trailer and what I think is a stop sign.
Well I guess we all came to the same conclusion at the same time. LOL.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 10:53 AM
Would they block the road from where you're saying they are, all the way up to Mount Caramel Church? That's a whole lot of road. Not seeing any other church along Christie, but maybe I'm just missing it. :waitasec:
I'm sorry should have edited to add- I don't mean they are blocking ALL of that territory. I was asking for help in reviewing that area. Sorry to confuse.
Kamille
11-11-2010, 10:55 AM
Good morning to all of the awesome laptop mappers and sar sleuthers out there! I see things are shifting rapidly.... Any idea why the shift to Christie again? I honestly thought they were done with that area.
Ok, off to go map the area between yesterday's search and today's (that's a big area).
A tip... work the map methodically, take a flight over a section of the road to get a feel for it and then start zooming in. Look for those pull outs/wide shoulders/dirt roads/etc. Some of them can be really hard to see until you get zoomed in pretty tight. Water is always good, bridges, etc. If they are expanding, there's a reason.
Just a crazy thought but is it possible that EB lied about the "horrible thing that AB did" and that there was no dismemberment and it's as simple as one or both of them disposed of her whole in one place? How far would animals scatter a body?
MOO
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 10:58 AM
I'm sorry should have edited to add- I don't mean they are blocking ALL of that territory. I was asking for help in reviewing that area. Sorry to confuse.
No confusion.
Looking from the Pine Mountain/Christie rd intersection up to Ekard recovery site, I don't see one single thing that jumps out at me. Other than alot of woods. :waitasec:
Maybe they are revisting Ekard?
distracted 1976
11-11-2010, 11:02 AM
Link
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/11/investigators-digging-clues-search-zahra-ar-529180/
gives very specific information regarding search yesterday.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:04 AM
Just a crazy thought but is it possible that EB lied about the "horrible thing that AB did" and that there was no dismemberment and it's as simple as one or both of them disposed of her whole in one place? How far would animals scatter a body?
MOO
I wouldn't even begin to tackle that question until I knew what was found at Burns/Dudley recovery site. From everything I know about house, EB's comments, etc. I'm not inclined to believe we're dealing with a whole body dumped here. But that's JMO. I honestly don't know.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:07 AM
Okay, I think Oriah is exactly right. The tweet pic with Mount Caramel Church sign (pointing up Christie) is on the corner of Pine Mountain and Christie, imo. Looking at Google earth, I can see the white trailer and what I think is a stop sign.
Yes sorry I was thinking the rd was straight from the propane truck and was blocked in the middle....but I can see it better on Earth....sorry. So if I go to the other end I can see where they are blocking off huh. Didnt last time they block the entire rd. does anyone remember?
shopgirlnc
11-11-2010, 11:08 AM
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050
update
raisincharlie
11-11-2010, 11:09 AM
no just what rad reported but nothing to indicate why
WBTV reported this am that LE received lab results. Just a guess, DNA on the bone prompting the return to Christie Road.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050
video upper right corner.
stormsailor
11-11-2010, 11:10 AM
All of the dirt from the circular hole – which measures about 10 feet around and 2.5 feet deep – was removed from the site. A white evidence flag – like ones used previously to mark bone identification – was placed next to the hole.
now that sounds like a body recovery sight. imho
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Just to clarify things in my own mind, there are 2 simultaneous searched going on, correct? Still at Dudley Shoals/Burns site, and now also at Christie?
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:13 AM
Channel 6 reported this am the same thing but the info wouldnt be released about the DNA until Emily-bio mom arrived in NC and was informed first. I bet that is why they went back to Christie rd. If it was negative why go back to the search site unless of course it was negative and they didnt find what EB reported??
adh74
11-11-2010, 11:15 AM
"Human remains were found yesterday off Dudley Road. Tests being done to confirm if they are Zarha's"
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:15 AM
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/11/investigators-digging-clues-search-zahra-ar-529180/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
check this out it tells exact location in regards to Dudley Site
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 11:16 AM
rad just tweeted that human remains were found yesterday off dudley rd....testing being done
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
he also says hickory pd will only say "evidence" was found
LaWanda
11-11-2010, 11:17 AM
rad just tweeted that human remains were found yesterday off dudley rd....testing being done
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
From Rad: (right after)
Hickory PD will only say "evidence" was found.
half a minute ago (http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc/status/2756402116304896) via Twitter for BlackBerry® (http://blackberry.com/twitter)
distracted 1976
11-11-2010, 11:18 AM
Hoping I am doing this right....
http://wbtv.images.worldnow.com/images/13465050_BG6.jpg
per wbtv website this is hole left behind after search yesterday....guess they aren't guarding it today? hmm
NancyA
11-11-2010, 11:19 AM
rad just tweeted that human remains were found yesterday off dudley rd....testing being done
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
Does he have official confirmation that these are definitely 'human remains'?
ETA: ok read posts where LE will only say 'evidence'
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:19 AM
I don't even want to type this, but I'm asking myself what would be the body part you'd bury, if you didn't bother to bury bones and prosthetic leg.? The answer I come up with is the one body part that would immediately stand out from say deer bones.
Ugh.
All of the dirt from the circular hole – which measures about 10 feet around and 2.5 feet deep – was removed from the site. A white evidence flag – like ones used previously to mark bone identification – was placed next to the hole.
now that sounds like a body recovery sight. imho
The size of the area is a bit curious to say the least. I do want to mention though that during the course of investigation flag colors often change for the purpose of keeping findings quiet. So, white may or may not mean the same thing at this point.
ETA well it would seem in this case they are using the same color. LOL
adh74
11-11-2010, 11:21 AM
My guess is that they found what they think are Zahra's remains yesterday and told ED to hop on a flight to NC. They will probably realease the info to the media after ED has arrived and spoken with LE.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:22 AM
Ok if they found human remains...that were large enough for that hole what else could they be searching for at Christie Rd?? Another Suspect or home search?
distracted 1976
11-11-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't even want to type this, but I'm asking myself what would be the body part you'd bury, if you didn't bother to bury bones and prosthetic leg.? The answer I come up with is the one body part that would immediately stand out from say deer bones.
Ugh.
Morbid thought, be warned!
I have thought this all along. They scattered her other bones in areas they knew deer carcasses are discarded. I wouldn't know the difference of a small childs bone and deer bone. The only one that would be easily identifiable of a child would be the skull....this they buried. May they fry! MOO :furious:
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:24 AM
Ok if they found human remains...that were large enough for that hole what else could they be searching for at Christie Rd?? Another Suspect or home search?
Isn't it possible the hole was not originally this big, and that LE expanded the dig hole themselves to make sure the got everything that might have been there?
adh74
11-11-2010, 11:25 AM
Wouldn't it be amazing if, after all this, they found her in mostly one piece?
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Ok just a local update, went by the search site this AM. In the front church parking lot only seen WBTV channel 3 news van. I seen NO law enforcement from the road what so ever. I didnt pull into the church though did drive my little loop around ebenezer and Satterwhite with nothing else seen. The locals at the store above the site said there was bright lights up at the church at 5AM this am...I seen nothing at 7?? Did they search through the night? Can anyone verify this? I am posting some pictures- very amauter might I add. I just thought every little bit helps! Few from yesterday and few from this AM. Heard no helicopters yet. Seen no flags like at Christy Rd (went by several times looking) Wonder if they are guarding the area might it be farther up the stream? Few shots of local streams that this one feeds into and honestly they look average to a little low especially at Icard Dam- I personally wasn't expecting this. I will post more if I hear anything. Will try to go by at lunch if they are at this site again today.
http://s924.photobucket.com/albums/ad83/nekoda0903/search%20shots/
The bridge on Ebenezer, is that the same creek? if so how far is it from where they are looking?
NancyA
11-11-2010, 11:29 AM
They keep talking about DNA profile for Z, could this be why they they need the Mother here?
Which begs the question why would they need to when they have one biological parent already here? Unless Mr Baker really hasn't been all that cooperative.
Patty G
11-11-2010, 11:29 AM
If this is true, then my next wish would be that all the remains have been found in one place.
The bridge on Ebenezer, is that the same creek? if so how far is it from where they are looking?
Yes it is and IIRC as the water flows about a 1/2 mile or so.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Not playing topic cop, but let's try to keep the discussion from wandering from the search and rescue topic, okay? :)
Celt1997
11-11-2010, 11:34 AM
Ok if they found human remains...that were large enough for that hole what else could they be searching for at Christie Rd?? Another Suspect or home search?
I'm wondering the same thing. But I'm guessing they want to be as thorough as possible. It is also a possibility that something they found yesterday may be linked to something they saw out at the Christie Road search.
Something as simple as a car's paint transfer on a tree that is found at both locations, and you've got your connection.
AB better get his best outfit on, because I have a feeling he'll be getting a visit very soon.
tfrohning
11-11-2010, 11:35 AM
reading on twitter that Zahar's mom is in Hickory
http://twitter.com/news14charlotte
WhyaDuck?
11-11-2010, 11:36 AM
Not playing topic cop, but let's try to keep the discussion from wandering from the search and rescue topic, okay? :)
I'm not sure what you are seeing that is O/T, Kat - could you please alert the ones to which you are referring?
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 11:36 AM
When a person dies, they loose bodily function. I don't know how else to put this, they go to the bathroom. That makes me wonder if that is why the mattress was dumped, and if some of the finds could be clothing and bedding. Just a thought.
Burr in my bonnet. It is Upper Little River NOT Gunpowder Creek. Media get it RIGHT!!!
NancyA
11-11-2010, 11:38 AM
If the O/T is about the speculation about the DNA profile, guilty as charged and I apologise - maybe we need a separate thread for discussion about the finding of possible human remains.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:39 AM
Yes it is and IIRC as the water flows about a 1/2 mile or so.
Is this the bridge on Ebenezer, near Satterwait?
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:45 AM
Is this the bridge on Ebenezer, near Satterwait?
Yes this flows into that creek/stream whichever they were searching yesterday.
DLT88
11-11-2010, 11:45 AM
Ok if they found human remains...that were large enough for that hole what else could they be searching for at Christie Rd?? Another Suspect or home search?
a weapon maybe? Or maybe a skull was separated from the rest of the body so she wouldn't be identified quickly?
Is this the bridge on Ebenezer, near Satterwait?
Yes, just to clarify though, that is not the bridge where the search was yesterday.
DLT88
11-11-2010, 11:48 AM
Which begs the question why would they need to when they have one biological parent already here? Unless Mr Baker really hasn't been all that cooperative.
Or....maybe.....they want to be 100% sure they are getting the biological parent? And with men, there is sometimes some doubt?
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:48 AM
Yes, just to clarify though, that is not the bridge where the search was yesterday.
Right, no confusion there. But thinking about that boulder area between this bridge and the Dudley Shoals/ Burns bridge, would we really need to go up as far as the Ebenezer Bridge? The creek flows downward from there, correct? Am I making sense?
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:49 AM
Ok I am heading over that way. I set up a Twitter account...lol..big accomplishment so if I see anything i can send it straight to whoever wants to see it. It is under shay0903. BBS!!
darnudes
11-11-2010, 11:53 AM
Maybe they found the chainsaw.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 11:54 AM
Okay to post Shay's twitter updates here in this discussion? I'd certainly find them useful with respect to the topic.
Blue Ridge
11-11-2010, 11:55 AM
When a person dies, they loose bodily function. I don't know how else to put this, they go to the bathroom. That makes me wonder if that is why the mattress was dumped, and if some of the finds could be clothing and bedding. Just a thought.
It wouldn't surprise me either if her clothing and possibly sheets, etc, were dumped just like her prosthesis, scattered here a bit there a bit...so good thinking, that could be another reason for the multiple search sites.
LaWanda
11-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Human Remains Discussion:
11.11.2010 - Human Remains Found discussion - moved from S&R thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
WhyaDuck?
11-11-2010, 11:57 AM
Okay to post Shay's twitter updates here in this discussion? I'd certainly find them useful with respect to the topic.
Is Shay a verified local/insider/professional or a verified news/media source? If so, I think that would be fine. Try not to post them word for word, but you can certainly sum them up and provide a link - that is always a safe way to go with verified social media sources.
(Sorry to be so vague, but I haven't had a chance to dig up the verified list yet, and I am hoping you guys can just clue me in.)
epiphany
11-11-2010, 11:58 AM
HICKORY, NC (WBTV) - New evidence that officials say are "possible human remains" has been found in the search for a missing 10-year-old Hickory girl, according to the Hickory Police Department.
Investigators told WBTV on Thursday that search teams in Caldwell County found evidence on Wednesday that "could provide valuable information in the Zahra Baker case." The evidence, which are "possible human remains," is on its way to and will be analyzed by the NC State Bureau of Investigation's lab.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13465050
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 11:59 AM
Ok I am heading over that way. I set up a Twitter account...lol..big accomplishment so if I see anything i can send it straight to whoever wants to see it. It is under shay0903. BBS!!
cool...i'm following you :dance:
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 12:00 PM
Is Shay a verified local/insider/professional or a verified news/media source? If so, I think that would be fine. Try not to post them word for word, but you can certainly sum them up and provide a link - that is always a safe way to go with verified sources.
(Sorry to be so vague, but I haven't had a chance to dig up the verified list yet, and I am hoping you guys can just clue me in.)
I don't know if she's verified through a mod, but she's gone out and taken local pics for us. Your call, Duck.
Patty G
11-11-2010, 12:01 PM
Is Shay a verified local/insider/professional or a verified news/media source? If so, I think that would be fine. Try not to post them word for word, but you can certainly sum them up and provide a link - that is always a safe way to go with verified social media sources.
(Sorry to be so vague, but I haven't had a chance to dig up the verified list yet, and I am hoping you guys can just clue me in.)
I don't see her on the list.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
I'm looking at that boulder area close to Dudley Shoals/Burns. I'm seeing a waterfall just above it. Anyone else see that?
WhyaDuck?
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
I don't know if she's verified through a mod, but she's gone out and taken local pics for us. Your call, Duck.
It's not my call, really, as I don't handle the verifications. I think Tricia (and possibly admins) do this. We don't take any chances with verified posters' info, and only those admins with full criminal background checks and seniority handle the verification aspect. However, I can't find her on the list of verified locals or insiders, so I will ask Daisy, re: the twitter.
Sorry to be so cautious, but I would rather that than guess and give you the wrong answer. :)
tk71texas
11-11-2010, 12:05 PM
so......i removed tweet update until someone says we can
distracted 1976
11-11-2010, 12:08 PM
Per WSOC noon newscast, human remains found, but "not an entire body" no link yet, so MOO. Will update with link when posted.
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 12:08 PM
cool...i'm following you :dance:
I'm following too. I hope you don't mind, I retweet. I have media following me.
JoeFromLB
11-11-2010, 12:11 PM
Human Remains Discussion:
11.11.2010 - Human Remains Found discussion - moved from S&R thread - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5788376#post5788376)
I'm getting an "invalid thread" message. What's going on??
darnudes
11-11-2010, 12:13 PM
There was already a thread started, that one is still there.
Amster
11-11-2010, 12:13 PM
I'm getting an "invalid thread" message. What's going on??
Go to main page...it's there
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Here's my thinking, assuming what I'm seeing at boulder area is, in fact, a waterfall: the waterfall here tells me that the creek is flowing downward. The boulder area just past it appears shallow. If that's the case, I see no reason to look up creek at Ebenezer Bridge.
Might be wrong, but that's my opinion.
adh74
11-11-2010, 12:14 PM
Per WSOC noon newscast, human remains found, but "not an entire body" no link yet, so MOO. Will update with link when posted.
Maybe it was most of her body, minus the parts that were left at Christie...the prosthetic, the bone they found last week, and maybe now they know what other bones to go look for over there, and that is why they are back over there now?
Okay...that was one huge run on sentence...but you know what I mean. Right?:blushing:
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 12:17 PM
Here's my thinking, assuming what I'm seeing at boulder area is, in fact, a waterfall: the waterfall here tells me that the creek is flowing downward. The boulder area just past it appears shallow. If that's the case, I see no reason to look up creek at Ebenezer Bridge.
Might be wrong, but that's my opinion.
There had been rains and with a bridge right there it would spout the water to the left and to the right, possibly bringing something to the banks. That was my thinking anyway.
kcsmom76
11-11-2010, 12:18 PM
Brought this from the last forum:
That looks to be a perfect place, writer7! I had been wondering why more water searches had not taken place. LE must not have had any tips/leads to those waters.
May today be Zahra's day! Hopefully LE did find something yesterday.
~I had been to the Mill Pond, my aunt lives in the house with the red Caboose, and I took pictures a couple of weeks ago. Duke Power was draining the pond due to repairs at the dam so the water was low. I didn't post them as I didn't find anything.
BTW, I am in the process of having Tricia verify me as local.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 12:22 PM
There had been rains and with a bridge right there it would spout the water to the left and to the right, possibly bringing something to the banks. That was my thinking anyway.
Gotcha. But if a hole was dug along the banks and human remains buried in it, wouldn't you think that would take place in a area where the water would be more inclined to be shallow, ie; the boulder/waterfall area? Make sense?
ETA: assuming that the creek was already low here at time of hole being dug.
I have had the possibility that she was dumped at the upper bridge in my mind for some time. However, if the facts are straight from the media (and by the pix I think they are at least close) that is above where any recent rains would have place remains, regardless of which bridge she was put in. So.... I am thinking now that she wasn't dumped in the water.
waltzingmatilda
11-11-2010, 12:26 PM
Oh my! I saw the update on the noon news here. LE must feel pretty sure these are indeed human remains by it being announced in the news media.
Thank you all for the maps and the updates on the searches! I haven't been posting much but I've been reading and keeping up as much as possible. Just wanted to express how much I appreciate you all and your hard work!
wm
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 12:30 PM
Gotcha. But if a hole was dug along the banks and human remains buried in it, wouldn't you think that would take place in a area where the water would be more inclined to be shallow, ie; the boulder/waterfall area? Make sense?
With swift water, on the edges of the banks, something heavy would fall to the bottom, current is what would move it. Once it is stopped and heavier then the current of the water around it can move, river/creek debris, sand, dirt etc. would wash over and settle on top. I was thinking they had a lot of rain recently during the search. Higher up state could have gotten more water, meaning more run off. I have a creek near my house. If we get heavy rain, even when it is dry as a bone. It will overflow quickly and flood up around the area about 6 or 7 ft out. Not only does it bury things, it uncovers others. It's constantly changing the immediate surrounding landscape.
WhyaDuck?
11-11-2010, 12:31 PM
There was already a thread started, that one is still there.
I merged those two threads together, and it is now open. You can find it via the main Zahra forum page, and I will come back with a link if/when I can.
ETA: Here:
11.11.2010 - Possible Human Remains Found and DNA Testing *merged* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
distracted 1976
11-11-2010, 12:34 PM
As promised....
Okay here is the link to the newscast
http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25759461/index.html
at appox 1:40 in the video, Dave says "that evidence is human remains, but not an entire body."
Again, not understanding how if they did not find complete remains, why they have abandoned that area (the burns/dudley area)? They did that once before too.... I say abandoned, because it is clearly not secured as neighbors are now walking around it in the news video.
Christie Rd, same issue for me. Very frustrated right now.
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 12:43 PM
Again, not understanding how if they did not find complete remains, why they have abandoned that area (the burns/dudley area)? They did that once before too.... I say abandoned, because it is clearly not secured as neighbors are now walking around it in the news video.
Christie Rd, same issue for me. Very frustrated right now.
I am too. They have done this with all the search sites.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 12:53 PM
As promised....
Okay here is the link to the newscast
http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25759461/index.html
at appox 1:40 in the video, Dave says "that evidence is human remains, but not an entire body."
Looking at that hole, now that I can see people next to it for reference...no way was that big of a hole dug by EB/AB. They would have needed heavy equiptment to do that, imo. But if you look at the vid again, you can see what I believe is a smaller hole within this large hole. Makes me think EB/AB might have dug the smaller hole, and LE expanded the hole to make sure there was nothing else in the dirt surrounding the small hole.
JMO
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 12:56 PM
Mountain_Kat, the water fall I think you keep seeing is........Correction from before. Once on google earth it looks more like a diversion from a fallen tree. I might be mistaken but that is what it looks like it is too me
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 01:04 PM
The black water between the baseball diamond and the creek. I don't know for some reason I keep looking at that. I have for the last few days since I first seen it.
waltzingmatilda
11-11-2010, 01:04 PM
I am too. They have done this with all the search sites.
I hear ya Clue! All I can figure is that LE is being methodical and thorough in each search area/possible crime scene until they move on to the next area of interest. I have had a hard time figuring out their logic until I considered the aspect of multiple crime scenes.....along with the fact that someone may be talking and giving locations of disposal in sequence. All MOO!
wm
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 01:08 PM
I hear ya Clue! All I can figure is that LE is being methodical and thorough in each search area/possible crime scene until they move on to the next area of interest. I have had a hard time figuring out their logic until I considered the aspect of multiple crime scenes.....along with the fact that someone may be talking and giving locations of disposal in sequence. All MOO!
wm
It's also possible that what we have here is 2 people, in 2 separate cars, dumping. If both are talking to LE, each might be giving info about their particular dump/route.
JMO
raisincharlie
11-11-2010, 01:12 PM
I am too. They have done this with all the search sites.
Multiple disposal sites and the process of elimination, and likely the dislocation of bones by animals, add in a vastly larger knowledge base of the facts around this case.
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 01:14 PM
Multiple disposal sites and the process of elimination, and likely the dislocation of bones by animals, add in a vastly larger knowledge base of the facts around this case.
It's going to give a good fight for the lawyers. That's all I'm going to say.
nursebeeme
11-11-2010, 01:35 PM
http://www.wsoctv.com/slideshow/news/25759768/detail.html
here is slide show of the "hole"... also wanted to point out:
1-dirt from hole is gone (per what slide says)
2-they are back at Christie road today??? (from what slide says...) did we know this?
DLT88
11-11-2010, 01:37 PM
Looking at that hole, now that I can see people next to it for reference...no way was that big of a hole dug by EB/AB. They would have needed heavy equiptment to do that, imo. But if you look at the vid again, you can see what I believe is a smaller hole within this large hole. Makes me think EB/AB might have dug the smaller hole, and LE expanded the hole to make sure there was nothing else in the dirt surrounding the small hole.
JMO
Yes, kind of like when they cut a piece of cancer out of someone. They take out healthy tissue all around the diseased tissue so they are sure to get it all. I think what you are saying is right -- they dig the larger hole to be sure they had everything contained in that smaller area.
nursebeeme
11-11-2010, 01:38 PM
On Thursday, searchers returned to the search site along Christie Road, where Zahra’s prosthetic leg was found. The roadway is shut down.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/25758518/detail.html
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 01:38 PM
We have almost known from the beginning what the multiple dump sites are leading up to. From the "woodchipper" discussions, to the fire discussions, to the finding of the prosthetic leg and the "bone". At that point, we all knew we would not be finding a "body", but rather pieces. The latest report, that states "human remains but not an entire body", so I am not surprised.
OT: Zahra, last night I dreamt of finding you at the bottom of a hill. You were looking up and sending out "beacons" to all of us to help find you and reunite you with your Bio-Mom. While we cannot undo all of the horrendous traumas you have had to endure, and our hearts break that you were left alone in your pain, we are coming for you sweet Zahra. Your Mom is coming to take you back to loving arms and nurturing love. We are so very sorry that you have been failed by the very ones who were entrusted with keeping you safe. Bio-Mom please know that you did nothing wrong, in my opinion. At the time, you were looking out for Zahra's best interests. Now, let us all help to bring you peace Sweet Angel.
gibby207
11-11-2010, 01:48 PM
They are back at Christie today??
nursebeeme
11-11-2010, 01:49 PM
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2...hra-ar-529180/On Thursday, investigators returned to the Christie Road location a few miles away. Earlier in the week, Hickory police had said they were finished with the site. New leads led them back there, though, resulting in the road being shut down while investigators continued their search.
Christie Road is where Zahra’s prosthetic leg was found on Oct. 26. A bone now being tested at the SBI lab was found there Nov. 3.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 01:58 PM
Slightly O/T
I think I've finally hit the wall in terms of my being able to offer any useful input in this discussion. So, I'm just going to follow along without comment. That said, if anyone thinks I can do anything to help, don't hesitate to ask. I'm happy to do whatever I can. :)
Peliman
11-11-2010, 02:12 PM
News video update from wsoctv, reporting searches at both the Dudley shoals and Christy area. Reporting confirmed partial human remains found yesterday, sent for testing. Noon update
http://www.wsoctv.com/video/25759461/index.html
NancyA
11-11-2010, 02:14 PM
At Mountain Kat, I for one can't thank you and the other members of the WS SAR Corps for EVERYTHING you have done regarding the googling and posting of maps and pics and directions. This thread is an absolutely invaluable resource for those of us who want to 'see' where what is happening where it is happening.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 02:32 PM
Is Shay a verified local/insider/professional or a verified news/media source? If so, I think that would be fine. Try not to post them word for word, but you can certainly sum them up and provide a link - that is always a safe way to go with verified social media sources.
(Sorry to be so vague, but I haven't had a chance to dig up the verified list yet, and I am hoping you guys can just clue me in.)
I'm not sorry guys, but I have emailed Tricia to become verified. I just want to help some how some way!!
WhyaDuck?
11-11-2010, 02:38 PM
I'm not sorry guys, but I have emailed Tricia to become verified. I just want to help some how some way!!
Verified or not, your presence is much appreciated, shay. I am sorry to seem so anal about verification, but that certainly doesn't mean we don't appreciate you.
(And I think there are a lot of people asking to be verified, so bear with Tricia as she goes through them all.)
:)
***
ETA: Hi shay and all others who wish to be verified. Tricia has an email address specifically for verification use, which should speed up the process. If you have not done so, please contact her here: wsverify@xmission.com
Also, please remember to give her both your name AND your WS hat. People often forget that she has no way of knowing who you are on here easily without having both monikers. TIA!
If you are merely a local who wants to express opinions about the town or give links to local media, etc, I am not so chuffed about getting verified. It is only in situations (like tweeting in real time, etc) where verification becomes handy to make sure the info you get from WS is secure and authenticated.
Nana46
11-11-2010, 02:42 PM
I'm not sorry guys, but I have emailed Tricia to become verified. I just want to help some how some way!!
Thank you and all our locals for all your efforts! I will follow your tweets later today!!!!
Peliman
11-11-2010, 02:43 PM
I'm not sorry guys, but I have emailed Tricia to become verified. I just want to help some how some way!!
You have helped, thanks for all your local information. Yes it is invaluable and you've done well. BTW: Followed you on twitter anyway. A bigger breaking news day today. I also heard on one report the FBI was involved in the search on Christy. I imagine Caldwell too, so the sheriff is utilizing ALL resources.
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 02:57 PM
Didn't see this new report posted here
Investigators combing a creek in rural North Carolina recovered evidence that could provide "valuable information" in the case of missing 10-year-old Zahra Baker.
The Hickory Police Department said in a statement that search teams found the evidence on Wednesday in Caldwell County
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/11/11/authorities-evidence-creek-case-missing-north-carolina-girl/
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 03:15 PM
Editted: nevermind
RR0004
11-11-2010, 03:22 PM
Ok I am heading over that way. I set up a Twitter account...lol..big accomplishment so if I see anything i can send it straight to whoever wants to see it. It is under shay0903. BBS!!
Bumping.
writer7
11-11-2010, 03:26 PM
Can someone check to see if I've put the red pin in the exact right spot for the possible human remains found by the creek? Thank you!
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=35.844535,-81.45813&spn=1.206666,1.977539&t=h&z=8&msid=103456566427659637913.000494be44209e249f588
Thanks so much all of you for working so hard!
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 03:30 PM
Can someone check to see if I've put the red pin in the exact right spot for the possible human remains found by the creek? Thank you!
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=35.844535,-81.45813&spn=1.206666,1.977539&t=h&z=8&msid=103456566427659637913.000494be44209e249f588
Thanks so much all of you for working so hard!
I believe it was closer to your red pushpin. Close to the bridge at Dudley Shoals/ Burns intersection. JMO
ETA: Unless I missed some vital piece of information today.
writer7
11-11-2010, 03:38 PM
I believe it was closer to your red pushpin. Close to the bridge. JMO
ETA: Unless I missed some vital piece of information today.
I got the location from another source; don't know how precise that person was :)
Closer to the road over the creek?
eta: it's moved now. See if that's good.
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 03:43 PM
Has there been a map that shows only the residences that EB, AB, and ZB have shared together?
I seriously need to learn how to make these maps.
writer7
11-11-2010, 03:44 PM
Ok, check it now, please :)
I could color-code the residences they shared if y'all have a list.
eta: or feel free to import my map and change it up.
ETA-2: I put them in purple :)
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 03:45 PM
I got the location from another source; don't know how precise that person was :)
Closer to the road over the creek?
Well, that's definitely where LE went in, and it wasn't all that long before they pushed back the helicopters (if they were moving upstream, had to be a slow move while looking), so that's why I'm thinking it's closer to the bridge.
Peliman
11-11-2010, 03:46 PM
Rays latest updates, he was out of phone range to post earlier.
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
Officially LE will only report evidence was found, not that I don't believe it but appears the story of human remains found is a leak.
tiredblondy
11-11-2010, 03:53 PM
I have a question that may have already been answered but if so I couldn't find it.
What are the searchers looking for in this picture where they are using oars? I don't understand how that would work?
http://www.wsoctv.com/slideshow/news/25759768/detail.html
I have been gone for a couple of days due to a death in the family. The funeral was in Hickory. The warmth and love shown for my deceased family member was wonderful. I couln't help but think of Zahra and wish she'd received some of it. It really is a nice town.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 03:57 PM
Ok, check it now, please :)
I could color-code the residences they shared if y'all have a list.
eta: or feel free to import my map and change it up.
What I did was pushpin "evidence found" right near the dirt road LE pulled into at Dudley/Burns intersection. We don't know exactly where evidence was found, but that's the closest general area, imo.
ETA: Great idea about color coding addresses shared and separate. I haven't the first clue which they both lived at and which only EB lived at, but I'd love to see that on a map. :)
Lera213
11-11-2010, 03:57 PM
I have a question that may have already been answered but if so I couldn't find it.
What are the searchers looking for in this picture where they are using oars? I don't understand how that would work?
http://www.wsoctv.com/slideshow/news/25759768/detail.html
I have been gone for a couple of days due to a death in the family. The funeral was in Hickory. The warmth and love shown for my deceased family member was wonderful. I couln't help but think of Zahra and wish she'd received some of it. It really is a nice town.
educated guess here: The bottom is really muddy, and if walked on it could make any evidence ie. Bone go deeper into the mud. By using the oar, they are not pressing down but skimming the top surface, and you could feel if anything gets pushed. If they feel that, they reach down and pick it up.
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Today, 03:56 PM
wenwe4
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 964
http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-zahr...ry?id=12122847
Investigators searching for the missing North Carolina girl Zahra Baker are analyzing human remains found while combing through an area that they had previously checked.
The remains were discovered while searching along Dudley Shoals Road in Caldwell County and the banks and waters of the adjacent Gunpowder Creek, ABC News affiliate WSOC-TV reported today.
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 04:00 PM
I have a question that may have already been answered but if so I couldn't find it.
What are the searchers looking for in this picture where they are using oars? I don't understand how that would work?
http://www.wsoctv.com/slideshow/news/25759768/detail.html
I have been gone for a couple of days due to a death in the family. The funeral was in Hickory. The warmth and love shown for my deceased family member was wonderful. I couln't help but think of Zahra and wish she'd received some of it. It really is a nice town.
The original thing LE said was
“We have a medical examiner from Chapel Hill on the scene,” Courtner said. “We’re looking for bags, boxes, bones, anything that can help us.”
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/10/6/investigators-comb-water-woods-dudley-shoals-ar-526669/
stillwatersc
11-11-2010, 04:02 PM
We have almost known from the beginning what the multiple dump sites are leading up to. From the "woodchipper" discussions, to the fire discussions, to the finding of the prosthetic leg and the "bone". At that point, we all knew we would not be finding a "body", but rather pieces. The latest report, that states "human remains but not an entire body", so I am not surprised.
All that and the way LE tore the house apart, taking out ceilings, flooring and plumbing.
tiredblondy
11-11-2010, 04:02 PM
The original thing LE said was
“We have a medical examiner from Chapel Hill on the scene,” Courtner said. “We’re looking for bags, boxes, bones, anything that can help us.”
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/10/6/investigators-comb-water-woods-dudley-shoals-ar-526669/
OK I can see how plastic bags could be used to hide remains but boxes???
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 04:10 PM
I'm wondering if we should have a thread for maps in general. For past shared residences, non-shared, before marriage. Search sites, things found, things not found etc. I'm just wondering if there are separate maps if a pattern might emerge better...that is assuming there is a pattern. I'm noticing this thread is becoming a little confusing. This one is for search and recovery.
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 04:12 PM
OK I can see how plastic bags could be used to hide remains but boxes???
I suspect anything handy to disguise and transport the remains.
I remember a case where newborn twins were found abandoned in a box @ a random residence. The babies weren't found for a few hours and the weight of the infant on top - suffocated the baby on the bottom. Only one baby survived, and they traced down the Mother through the logos and printing on the box. It was from her place of employment, and no one she worked with ever knew she was pregnant! Later on, it was determined she had abandoned another baby and that child was linked through DNA. Coworkers, never did know this woman had been pregnant - yet carried the babies to term, delivered @ home, and abandoned the infants on someone's front sidewalk.
WhyaDuck?
11-11-2010, 04:12 PM
I'm wondering if we should have a thread for maps in general. For past shared residences, non-shared, before marriage. Search sites, things found, things not found etc. I'm just wondering if there are separate maps if a pattern might emerge better...that is assuming there is a pattern. I'm noticing this thread is becoming a little confusing. This one is for search and recovery.
You can certainly start a new thread for images only, no discussion - that might help as a reference thread. Or a maps-only thread, if you wish, as long as it has no discussion.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 04:16 PM
I'm wondering if we should have a thread for maps in general. For past shared residences, non-shared, before marriage. Search sites, things found, things not found etc. I'm just wondering if there are separate maps if a pattern might emerge better...that is assuming there is a pattern. I'm noticing this thread is becoming a little confusing. This one is for search and recovery.
My thinking is to work out addresses, back and forth about who might have lived where, etc. in other more appropriate threads, then post the finished map here so everyone can take a look at it.
JMO
(back to lurking) :)
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 04:18 PM
Breaking news on HLN: Reporter from WBTV - Steve Crump saying possible human remains found - shipped out to be verified. LE is trying to reconstruct this case. Bio-Mom is here in NC - she came here with an Aussie News crew and the news crew is in control of where ED goes. They don't know if any local media has any opportunity to interview her.
Lera213
11-11-2010, 04:21 PM
Breaking news on HLN: Reporter from WBTV - Steve Crump saying possible human remains found - shipped out to be verified. LE is trying to reconstruct this case. Bio-Mom is here in NC - she came here with an Aussie News crew and the news crew is in control of where ED goes. They don't know if any local media has any opportunity to interview her.
My guess is ED had limited funds and this news crew offered to pay for everything if they could come along and document the case as she is in the USA. I don't fault her doing this for if you have limited funds but want to be there, you would take that offer in a heart beat.
writer7
11-11-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm wondering if we should have a thread for maps in general. For past shared residences, non-shared, before marriage. Search sites, things found, things not found etc. I'm just wondering if there are separate maps if a pattern might emerge better...that is assuming there is a pattern. I'm noticing this thread is becoming a little confusing. This one is for search and recovery.
That sounds fine to me. I was asking about a search location, but my map just has more info on it, too. I pay attention to the 'Housing Moves' thread and have its link there if anyone wants to discuss the general address info there.
I do want to note the finds on the same map, so I'll link it, but y'all feel free to ignore me :D :D
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 04:33 PM
That sounds fine to me. I was asking about a search location, but my map just has more info on it, too. I pay attention to the 'Housing Moves' thread and have its link there if anyone wants to discuss the general address info there.
I do want to note the finds on the same map, so I'll link it, but y'all feel free to ignore me :D :D
Writer7
I LOVE your Map! post it everywhere IMO! (LOL - I really don't need a "come to Jesus Meeting" about staying on Topic)
What I know is that a thread that is doing phenomenal work breaks out into many threads because of the value in the many posts and many opinions, expertise, and dedication. I think what we have been witnessing here folks is an outgrowth of how phenomenal the work and effort being put into finding one little girl can make the difference for thousands of people.
I don't think this is a bad thing! It means we are getting better about taking the concepts from a horizontal thinking (all across the board on a specific issue to multiple vertical (deep into one subject) trains of thought. Isn't modern technology magnificent? WS Rocks!
Scamperoo
11-11-2010, 04:34 PM
My guess is ED had limited funds and this news crew offered to pay for everything if they could come along and document the case as she is in the USA. I don't fault her doing this for if you have limited funds but want to be there, you would take that offer in a heart beat.
Yes I agree, she has very limited funds and took this opportunity as soon as it was offered. I know I would if in that very unfortunate situation, I wouldn't fault her at all. Better that than NG or JVM IMHO.
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 04:51 PM
That sounds fine to me. I was asking about a search location, but my map just has more info on it, too. I pay attention to the 'Housing Moves' thread and have its link there if anyone wants to discuss the general address info there.
I do want to note the finds on the same map, so I'll link it, but y'all feel free to ignore me :D :D
Oh no, why I said it, is I became confused. I was answering a question and for some reason I thought I was on a different thread. It was me alone. Nothing anyone else said. It was my own post.
tlcya
11-11-2010, 05:23 PM
A spokesman for the Hickory, N.C., police department declined to confirm the discovery of the remains and told ABC News, "The only thing I can share is that yesterday we recovered evidence that could provide valuable information in the Baker case."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-zahra-baker-discovers-human-remains/story?id=12122847
Just for clarity's sake. We all are pretty confident remains were found yesterday, but it seems as if LE is not ready to confirm or deny that at this time.
ynotdivein
11-11-2010, 05:33 PM
A spokesman for the Hickory, N.C., police department declined to confirm the discovery of the remains and told ABC News, "The only thing I can share is that yesterday we recovered evidence that could provide valuable information in the Baker case."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/search-zahra-baker-discovers-human-remains/story?id=12122847
Just for clarity's sake. We all are pretty confident remains were found yesterday, but it seems as if LE is not ready to confirm or deny that at this time.
I can imagine a leak like that puts them in an awkward position. They have ED there and probably want to give her as complete a story as possible and let her know ahead of the media, when they ARE ready to say anything. Also they must be very sensitive to the fact that as soon as they confirm any of that information, public outrage will be intense unless they bring in any and all possible participants. The clock starts ticking in any number of ways once they confirm that these are human remains, and then that they are Zahra's.
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 05:50 PM
I can imagine a leak like that puts them in an awkward position. They have ED there and probably want to give her as complete a story as possible and let her know ahead of the media, when they ARE ready to say anything. Also they must be very sensitive to the fact that as soon as they confirm any of that information, public outrage will be intense unless they bring in any and all possible participants. The clock starts ticking in any number of ways once they confirm that these are human remains, and then that they are Zahra's.
Ynot - I think you are right on here. It is so hard for people like me to sit back and await confirmation so we can begin to help build a case - but I realize how important it is to be respectful of ED and give her information to the best of their ability. I also believe, they are "duty bound" to notify both parents if they can locate both. (I could be wrong here - but I think that is the normal procedure). They could be preparing a warrent for AB (and anyone else) currently and do both with one fell swoop. (Hope springs eternal!)
passionflower
11-11-2010, 05:56 PM
People have been coming to see the spot in Granite Falls where the remains were found. They can walk right up to the hole. Why???
2 minutes ago via web
http://twitter.com/radberkywcnc#
ynotdivein
11-11-2010, 06:01 PM
People have been coming to see the spot in Granite Falls where the remains were found. They can walk right up to the hole. Why???
2 minutes ago via web
http://twitter.com/radberkywcnc#
1. They are finished searching and found everything they needed...
2. Like with the Christy Rd. site that they said they were finished with, then went back to after some days... they said that was because of a new lead. Any chance that they kept the area under surveillance so that if anyone with an *ahem* guilty conscience should return to the scene, they would know that? (OK now that I type that out it sounds remarkably far-fetched. :blushing:)
Lera213
11-11-2010, 06:10 PM
I hope those people going to that hole place FREAKING FLOWERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shay0903
11-11-2010, 06:10 PM
Ok none of the search tactics seem to make alot of sense to me go here...back there...finished ...oh wait. As I reported this AM there was no one gaurding the sites visible out of the woods so to speak(no parked cars either)...Christy rd had all kinds of visitors (personally seen in the wooded area by myself yesterday) Wish I could have gotten some good pictures of THAT!! Hard to have motivation to keep mapping and looking when we aren't sure of whats found. Ok the first source I had on the remains was Rad's Tweet then 2 min later he said HPD would not confirm. They were 1 of the news crews there but why wait until next day to report. Is this whole thing that remains found a media goof by chance? Maybe some other SAR guys can give us some insight/thought on this. Has anyone seen any updates at all on the search today on Christy Rd? Still there? still closed? anything found?
SnowsMom
11-11-2010, 06:23 PM
1. They are finished searching and found everything they needed...
2. Like with the Christy Rd. site that they said they were finished with, then went back to after some days... they said that was because of a new lead. Any chance that they kept the area under surveillance so that if anyone with an *ahem* guilty conscience should return to the scene, they would know that? (OK now that I type that out it sounds remarkably far-fetched. :blushing:)
Police do it all the time....least on tv they do :thumb:
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 06:42 PM
Ok none of the search tactics seem to make alot of sense to me go here...back there...finished ...oh wait. As I reported this AM there was no one gaurding the sites visible out of the woods so to speak(no parked cars either)...Christy rd had all kinds of visitors (personally seen in the wooded area by myself yesterday) Wish I could have gotten some good pictures of THAT!! Hard to have motivation to keep mapping and looking when we aren't sure of whats found. Ok the first source I had on the remains was Rad's Tweet then 2 min later he said HPD would not confirm. They were 1 of the news crews there but why wait until next day to report. Is this whole thing that remains found a media goof by chance? Maybe some other SAR guys can give us some insight/thought on this. Has anyone seen any updates at all on the search today on Christy Rd? Still there? still closed? anything found?
Haven't heard a thing yet. :(
Hey, did you say earlier that Christie Rd. was closed all the way from Pine Mountain Rd. to Mount Caramel church? Or did I misunderstand you?
tlcya
11-11-2010, 06:49 PM
hey MK, looks like I missed alot in the last half a day. Not sure exaclty what as there are lots of reports and no confirmations :(
I hope it is understood the way I mean it when I say I hope the rumorred finding of remains is true. I hope LE are simply not confirming til they've bought themselves time to make proper notifications and perform an autopsy.
I just don't get LE confirming "evidence" that may be related to Zahra's case being found at Dudley/Burns site, not confirming remains, and not securing the site. This confuses me mightily. I hope there is a method to their madness. I support all LE has done with trying to deal with this very difficult scenerio.
I hope it ends soon. For everyone involved.
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 06:57 PM
hey MK, looks like I missed alot in the last half a day. Not sure exaclty what as there are lots of reports and no confirmations :(
I hope it is understood the way I mean it when I say I hope the rumorred finding of remains is true. I hope LE are simply not confirming til they've bought themselves time to make proper notifications and perform an autopsy.
I just don't get LE confirming "evidence" that may be related to Zahra's case being found at Dudley/Burns site, not confirming remains, and not securing the site. This confuses me mightily. I hope there is a method to their madness. I support all LE has done with trying to deal with this very difficult scenerio.
I hope it ends soon. For everyone involved.
:wave:
Like you, I'm just praying there is a method to their madness. They know way more of the details/evidence than I do, so just gotta trust they know what they're doing. Keep the faith!
LCoastMom
11-11-2010, 06:57 PM
hey MK, looks like I missed alot in the last half a day. Not sure exaclty what as there are lots of reports and no confirmations :(
I hope it is understood the way I mean it when I say I hope the rumorred finding of remains is true. I hope LE are simply not confirming til they've bought themselves time to make proper notifications and perform an autopsy.
I just don't get LE confirming "evidence" that may be related to Zahra's case being found at Dudley/Burns site, not confirming remains, and not securing the site. This confuses me mightily. I hope there is a method to their madness. I support all LE has done with trying to deal with this very difficult scenerio.
I hope it ends soon. For everyone involved.
I said the same thing on the other thread, evidently we missed that LE was looking specifically for bags, boxes or anything (contained).
BRB with link..
http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/2010/nov/10/6/investigators-comb-water-woods-dudley-shoals-ar-526669/
“We have a medical examiner from Chapel Hill (http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/topics/types/facility/tags/chapel-hill/) on the scene,” Courtner (http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/topics/types/person/tags/tommy-courtner/) said. “We’re looking for bags, boxes, bones, anything that can help us.”
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 07:24 PM
Just a heads up: Shay0903 has been verified as a local, so anyone wanting to post short twitter updates from her, relating to the discussion topic, you're good to go.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 07:31 PM
Haven't heard a thing yet. :(
Hey, did you say earlier that Christie Rd. was closed all the way from Pine Mountain Rd. to Mount Caramel church? Or did I misunderstand you?
Yes, and I can officially say I'm now a verifiable source:crazy:I would have taken a photo and tweeted it bit i didnt want to get a ticket for texting and driving ya know...I didn't see one dang sign of searchers...I went both directions of both roads up to drag strip and then around campground to Deal Mill all the way to Rebel Run...by the way that area is a WHOLE other area itself with all kinds of drop offs, dirt roads and wooded mess! I stretched very hard to see especially at the church area but nothing.
w1df10wr
11-11-2010, 07:34 PM
Yes, and I can officially say I'm now a verifiable source:crazy:I would have taken a photo and tweeted it bit i didnt want to get a ticket for texting and driving ya know...I didn't see one dang sign of searchers...I went both directions of both roads up to drag strip and then around campground to Deal Mill all the way to Rebel Run...by the way that area is a WHOLE other area itself with all kinds of drop offs, dirt roads and wooded mess! I stretched very hard to see especially at the church area but nothing.
Congrats on getting verified and thank you for everything you've shared!
tlcya
11-11-2010, 07:36 PM
ty MK, are we going to be getting shay's tweets you mean? I am a twitterer (is that a word) oh well, regardless, I make em up all the time. Has shay published her twitter ID or okayed members here to follow her?
tlcya
11-11-2010, 07:37 PM
hello shay, just asking about you :)
tlcya
11-11-2010, 07:38 PM
shay, may I follow you on twitter and if so, what is your ID. here or aside is fine tia
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 07:39 PM
ty MK, are we going to be getting shay's tweets you mean? I am a twitterer (is that a word) oh well, regardless, I make em up all the time. Has shay published her twitter ID or okayed members here to follow her?
Well, ummm...I use a different word, but I'm sure not gonna post it here and get banned. :crazy:
(I know, off topic...zipping lip.)
butwhatif?
11-11-2010, 07:40 PM
BREAKING NEWS.....
Channel 7 news from Aus just did a report from NC (same guy who interviewed Emily in Wagga wagga) and confirmed that Emily has been informed that it was human remains found , and they are believed to be Zahra.
Will see if I can find a link....
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 07:46 PM
Well, ummm...I use a different word, but I'm sure not gonna post it here and get banned. :crazy:
(I know, off topic...zipping lip.)
I was thinking the same thing . . . . . . hmm . . . . was it the GoGo's that sang "Our lips are sealed"?
Anyway, if you are one of Shay's "tweeps" than I think you can update us here with a link.
butwhatif?
11-11-2010, 07:46 PM
^^ It was the 11am news. Can't see the video up yet....only the one from thismorning.
Here's the link for when it does go up.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/
wenwe4
11-11-2010, 07:48 PM
BREAKING NEWS.....
Channel 7 news from Aus just did a report from NC (same guy who interviewed Emily in Wagga wagga) and confirmed that Emily has been informed that it was human remains found , and they are believed to be Zahra.
Will see if I can find a link....
Thanks for the breaking news butwhatif
(ps: I wanted to shorten your avatar name but that looked even worse). LOL
Oriah
11-11-2010, 08:30 PM
Hi everyone,
I just wanted to pop in here quickly and let ya'll know that I understand the frustration at not knowing what to do re: continued sleuthing for Zahra's remains, given what the media has put out today.
(I am verified SAR, fwiw)
HPD has not released info saying that the evidence found was Zahra, and she is still listed as a missing child on NCMEC.
For whatever reason or speculations they have, any info regarding identifying the evidence found as Zahra is not verifiable by LE at this time. It may or may not be true...but unfortunately until they come right and say "We have found her".... as SAR we have to assume a position of uncertainty, and therefore- continue searching.
I hope with all of my heart that LE wll clarify the situation tomorrow so that hearts across the world will rest easier. But some cases are so difficult and take so many twists and turns, that that is not always possible in the time frame we all would like.
Since this thread was created for the purposes of aiding and sleuthing search and recovery operations for Zahra, I feel we should continue until further statement from LE.
This is JMHO, and I certainly understand why folks might want to sit back for a while before continuing to put so much effort into something the media is leading us to believe will be a waste of time.
As SAR, I just thought I would share my perspective on that. I'm going to keep on, until told she has been found.
Thanks everyone, for all of your tremendously hard work on this emotionally draining case.
Oriah
shay0903
11-11-2010, 08:57 PM
yes my twitter id is shay0903, i just started it cause it was easier to post pics when i go ride around vs a camera. Ive been riding around a little the last few days since its easy for me with the search areas where they are. I am definetly not going to be like the news media and post every breaking news...just if I am out and someone wants to know what the situation looks like like today those who were curious where and what rds were closed. I don't think we should stop searching because evidently LE hasn't so why should we? But its hard without knowing what the deal was with CHristie rd today:shakehead: they met with adam earlier so maybe public will get late night update??
shay0903
11-11-2010, 09:01 PM
But this did strike me odd, the news guy rad berky with wcnc tweeted he was in the town of Granite and lost...all 3 blocks of it around 7. Why was he in Granite at 7pm? Its a one horse town (sorry granite ppl) and nothing probably open and not really any restuarants or hotels?? Following another lead?? Falls Avn is like the one of the main streets. Mentioned as one of EBs addresses .
Mountain_Kat
11-11-2010, 09:06 PM
Oriah, I'm game to start again tomorrow if you need me. My brain has hit a wall now though, so you'll have to tell me exactly what you want me to do.
tlcya
11-11-2010, 09:08 PM
yeah, I am mush as well, not quiting, just taking a breath while I give LE a chance to give me an idea if we are still looking for multiple sites. They have still not confirmed the bone from Christy is related to Z.
Will be ready to continue sleuthing tomorrow.
strach304
11-11-2010, 09:15 PM
1. They are finished searching and found everything they needed...
2. Like with the Christy Rd. site that they said they were finished with, then went back to after some days... they said that was because of a new lead. Any chance that they kept the area under surveillance so that if anyone with an *ahem* guilty conscience should return to the scene, they would know that? (OK now that I type that out it sounds remarkably far-fetched. :blushing:)
And/or dispose of evidence in an area already searched.
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:17 PM
Oriah, I'm game to start again tomorrow if you need me. My brain has hit a wall now though, so you'll have to tell me exactly what you want me to do.
Mountain Kat, thank you. My brain (and body, lol) has hit a wall right now as well. Let's both take the night off and if we need to begin again in the morning, we will. :blowkiss:
ETA: Thank you all who are willing to continue tomorrow if need be. Hopefully, we will have some closure and that will not be necessary. But your commitment to finding Zahra makes my heart swell with both pride and love for you all. Everyone, get some rest and we'll see you in the morning.
Peace,
Oriah
Oriah
11-11-2010, 09:48 PM
Oops- sorry guys, forgot to add one other thing. Sarx is off for a few days without computer access, and wanted ya'll to know that she'll be back soon. If you have SAR related questions for sarx, point them in my direction for the next few days and I'll do my best to try and answer.
Now it's goodnight for real ! :)
Oriah
darlin gal
11-11-2010, 10:01 PM
During commercial break, channel 9 wsoc gave a teaser for the 11 pm newscast...... Why searchers won't be searching tomorrow.
shay0903
11-11-2010, 11:30 PM
Ok I guess everyone has heard via media that the search has been called off by HPD because evidence was so significant. So thanks to everyone on this post for helping with the search and maybe I can help out on the case/trials etc when it gets to that point!!
A BeAuTiFuL Angel sets in HEAVEN pointing her mother in the right direction to take her home...and is wrapping her arms around everyone of the hard working men and woman involved in the search to bring her justice!!!:angel:
Clue Hopper
11-11-2010, 11:43 PM
Ok I guess everyone has heard via media that the search has been called off by HPD because evidence was so significant. So thanks to everyone on this post for helping with the search and maybe I can help out on the case/trials etc when it gets to that point!!
A BeAuTiFuL Angel sets in HEAVEN pointing her mother in the right direction to take her home...and is wrapping her arms around everyone of the hard working men and woman involved in the search to bring her justice!!!:angel:
I'm sure we all knew it. We all began to become a little more somber. I'm wearing down fast.
stormsailor
11-12-2010, 12:04 AM
i knew when i saw that picture of the recovery site this morning that they had found that sweet childs body. now that it has been confirmed i have such an empty spot inside that aches.
WhyaDuck?
11-12-2010, 12:54 AM
A discussion of the HPD statement is here:
2010.11.11 - Hickory Local News says search is over. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
Once the find is verified and the search is truly over, please remind a mod to lock this thread.
Mountain_Kat
11-12-2010, 05:34 AM
A discussion of the HPD statement is here:
2010.11.11 - Hickory Local News says search is over. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119603)
Once the remains are verified and the search is truly over, please remind a mod to lock this thread.
Will do, Duck. I'm hoping LE will make a statement this morning, and we can all find some small measure of closure in the knowledge that our girl has been found.
captdj
11-12-2010, 08:26 AM
This morning I was searching where gunpowder creek is located....
Not sure how (if any) this coincidence is but there is a gunpowder creek also in Austrailia. Its in West Queensland...
Do we know if Adam ever lived in this area? or it could just be a common name for a creek?
http://maps.bonzle.com/c/a?a=p&p=211103&cmd=sp
Oriah
11-12-2010, 09:02 AM
Good morning, everyone.
I'm sure by now everyone has heard that searching has been called off today, and our hearts are broken.
I do want to reiterate that Zahra remains listed as a missing child, pending release of ID by LE.
<mod snip>
I too recommend joining the support or memorial thread for those who feel comfortable there- a good suggestion, Duck.
I think most of us feel like we have just lost one of our very own children.
Peace and apologies are not enough words for our Aussie friends. Please know how much we loved your baby, and how hard we worked to bring her home.
I think we can hold off on sleuthing/ mapping/etc today.
Oriah
Mountain_Kat
11-12-2010, 09:23 AM
Be kind to yourselves, folks. Take a break for a few hours and reconnect with the things that bring you comfort and peace in life.
captdj
11-12-2010, 09:30 AM
Still sleuthing on whether Gunpowder creek and the coincidence there's one in Australia...
Found that Adam and Elisa was married in Queensland...and there is a gunpowder creek also in Queensland....
Is this just a common name or does the name of the creek represent something??
Ok back to googling...
Belinda
11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
We also have a Gunpowder Creek where I live in Maryland.
passionflower
11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
I hope (this is awful to say) that Zahra was in a BAG.
This would keep most evidence to convict in a contained space.
Now I look forward to the ARRESTS.
Thanks to all that helped find our little Zahra, a star in heaven!
darlin gal
11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
Rad Berky just tweeted that the police will announce today that the remains found were Zahra's.
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
Wise Old Owl
11-12-2010, 09:36 AM
Rad Berky just tweeted that the police will announce today that the remains found were Zahra's.
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
He must have "UN"-tweeted this (can you do that?) because I don't see anything on his twitter that says that - but I believe you tho. Iwas just thinking about this and will we get any big news today? It is Friday and it seems every Friday afternoon we get a "bombshell" of something or other late in the day.
captdj
11-12-2010, 09:41 AM
We also have a Gunpowder Creek where I live in Maryland.
Thanks.
It could be that this creek was chosen randomly or for the location instead of the name and just a common name for a creek... but it would be interesting to find out if Adam lived near the one in Australia?
lne1970
11-12-2010, 09:42 AM
I saw the same tweet.
darlin gal
11-12-2010, 09:44 AM
He must have "UN"-tweeted this (can you do that?) because I don't see anything on his twitter that says that - but I believe you tho. Iwas just thinking about this and will we get any big news today? It is Friday and it seems every Friday afternoon we get a "bombshell" of something or other late in the day.
Are you signed in? Twitter has been acting funny lately.
It's still there, I did a hard refresh.
Wise Old Owl
11-12-2010, 09:46 AM
Are you signed in? Twitter has been acting funny lately.
It's still there, I did a hard refresh.
Thankx - just went back and did some "things" and yes, I saw it.
Such a sad sad day.
raisincharlie
11-12-2010, 09:51 AM
Rad Berky just tweeted that the police will announce today that the remains found were Zahra's.
http://twitter.com/RadBerkywcnc
If true, there is but one way LE would be able to confirm that this quickly. Lets hope it is so.
If you check his RSS feed - the "tweet" is still present.
RoseTree
11-12-2010, 09:52 AM
Ok I guess everyone has heard via media that the search has been called off by HPD because evidence was so significant. So thanks to everyone on this post for helping with the search and maybe I can help out on the case/trials etc when it gets to that point!!
A BeAuTiFuL Angel sets in HEAVEN pointing her mother in the right direction to take her home...and is wrapping her arms around everyone of the hard working men and woman involved in the search to bring her justice!!!:angel:
Thanks Shay, may I ask how you are involved in the case locally?
This case has just been devastating- I can't wrap my brain around how a child that was so loved during her cancer treatments (per the media), was turned on and her bright, hopeful life, extinguished.
Many extra hugs for my kids today, as I and all of you, mourn for a lovely little girl who we never had the chance to love in life.
diphi
11-12-2010, 09:54 AM
If true, there is but one way LE would be able to confirm that this quickly. Lets hope it is so.
How? A personal ID by someone?
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