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View Full Version : Willow and Bristol Palin post slurs and profanity on FB



waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 11:19 AM
From Huffington Post. ***Warning! Graphic Language***

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/16/willow-palin-facebook-posts_n_784585.html

I placed this here in the Celebrity News forum because the discussion content is regarding Palin's new show and Bristol's fame on DWTS. Mods please remove if not in the right place. Thank you, wm

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 11:34 AM
WP is a 16 year old kid. She should be protected from this type of coverage IMO.

While I don't agree with how she handled herself, she acted like a lot of 16 year olds act on FB I'm afraid.

Bristol is fair game because she is an adult and has put her self out into the public with DWTS. But WP should be protected just as any other minor IMO.

JMO

momtective
11-18-2010, 11:43 AM
Typical teenagers for the most part..aghhh...no one would bat an eye at this is their mother wasn't a politician. Anyone who is actually surprised by the language hasn't a clue what goes on with teenagers. Not saying it's right but hey, it is what it is.

Charlie09
11-18-2010, 11:48 AM
It's only news of any type because it's Palin's kid.

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 11:59 AM
I do wonder how HP got away with publishing this since Willow is a minor. Is it because she is considered a public figure by being on the reality show?

I'll betcha one thing.....Mama Grizz is probably administering some punishment to her cubs.....as any mother would. Well, I would anyway. My son is 24 and I admonish him about certain posts on his FB page, we are FB friends. All kids use poor judgement at times. I always remind him that his behavior is a reflection on his parents.

MOO wm

animlzrule
11-18-2010, 12:01 PM
It's really sad. I never would have dreamed of using gay slurs when I was a kid. Even then I knew it was crossing a line just like the "n" word. A 16 year old should be expected to display a lot more self restraint rather than to fall back on such base instincts and crude behavior. This would be a great opportunity for the Palins to use their celebrity to speak out against the perpetuation of such pejorative speech. I also hear the words "retard" and "retarded" being bandied about very casually in speech. Every opportunity I get I call people out on it. Teaching civil discourse begins at home. If kids can't conduct themselves respectfully in a public venue such as facebook, then they don't deserve the opportunity to perpetuate their ignorance in such venues. Pay attention to what your kids are doing!!!!

oh_gal
11-18-2010, 12:10 PM
Not only are the sexual slurs sad, but so are the comments about weight. Is this really what it's all about in teen world? Amazing that any of us made it out.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 12:15 PM
Sad to say but the "that's so gay" and "you're so gay" is very common right now amung teens. I hear it quite often from teens I know. My DD is 13 and knows better to say it in front of me and I hope she does not say it behind my back.

But, I have several teens on my FB friends list and I can tell you, I see "homework is so gay" and "my phone is gay, won't let me get texts" or "lol, you're so gay".

Like I said it's horrible, but it is BIG time slang right now. I have a 19 year old nephew that says it ALL THE TIME and it really irks me.

Charlie09
11-18-2010, 12:18 PM
Sad to say but the "that's so gay" and "you're so gay" is very common right now amung teens. I hear it quite often from teens I know. My DD is 13 and knows better to say it in front of me and I hope she does not say it behind my back.

But, I have several teens on my FB friends list and I can tell you, I see "homework is so gay" and "my phone is gay, won't let me get texts" or "lol, you're so gay".

Like I said it's horrible, but it is BIG time slang right now. I have a 19 year old nephew that says it ALL THE TIME and it really irks me.

I think this is much ado about political correctness.

Who cares?

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 12:20 PM
To be honest, I wasn't sure whether to place this here or in the bullying forum, since bullying on social sites seems to be a trend among our young these days. I chose this forum since the content of the posts were in regards to the entertainment shows.

Personally, i wish SP had chosen not to include/exploit her kids on a reality show. I don't agree with Kate Gosselin doing it or Octomom exploiting her brood but that is just MOO. Now the kids are in the limelight and their childish actions are going to be scrutinized.

Just a reminder for you all that this is not a political discussion about SP so let's not go there. thanks.

wm

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 12:23 PM
Sad to say but the "that's so gay" and "you're so gay" is very common right now amung teens. I hear it quite often from teens I know. My DD is 13 and knows better to say it in front of me and I hope she does not say it behind my back.

But, I have several teens on my FB friends list and I can tell you, I see "homework is so gay" and "my phone is gay, won't let me get texts" or "lol, you're so gay".

Like I said it's horrible, but it is BIG time slang right now. I have a 19 year old nephew that says it ALL THE TIME and it really irks me.

When I was a kid 'gay' meant 'happy'! I am dating myself, LOL!

Charlie09
11-18-2010, 12:23 PM
To be honest, I wasn't sure whether to place this here or in the bullying forum, since bullying on social sites seems to be a trend among our young these days. I chose this forum since the content of the posts were in regards to the entertainment shows.

Personally, i wish SP had chosen not to include/exploit her kids on a reality show. I don't agree with Kate Gosselin doing it or Octomom exploiting her brood but that is just MOO. Now the kids are in the limelight and their childish actions are going to be scrutinized.

Just a reminder for you all that this is not a political discussion about SP so let's not go there. thanks.

wm
Of course it ends up being a political discussion about SP....it would be a complete non story otherwise.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 12:29 PM
I agree. How could it not be political when she is "famous" because her mom is a political figure.

JMO

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 12:29 PM
Of course it ends up being a political discussion about SP....it would be a complete non story otherwise.

Charlie, My previous post was not directed towards you. Your post appeared after my posting the reminder. Just didn't want you thinking I was hating on you:)

If it does indeed become a political discussion, it should be moved downstairs to the private political forum. Thanks. wm

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 12:31 PM
Charlie, My previous post was not directed towards you. Your post appeared after my posting the reminder. Just didn't want you thinking I was hating on you:)

If it does indeed become a political discussion, it should be moved downstairs to the private political forum. Thanks. wm

There is a Sarah Palin thread down there if it needs to be moved/merged.

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Thanks Kimberly! I will send a pm to Salem to see about moving it. wm

ETA Ok I sent the pm to Salem. I just don't wish for any of us (or myself) to be in trouble. We can discuss more openly downstairs in the private forums.

I just realized that Kimster is a mod on this thread so I forwarded the original pm to Salem to Kimster. Hopefully someone will help. Duh! I shoulda checked the bottom of the page before sending to Salem.

Thanks everyone!

Salem
11-18-2010, 01:09 PM
Okay guys - you don't look so off topic to me. But, I am not a mod in this thread so we will have to wait for Kimster to check in, see what she thinks and move the thread if necessary.

Just remember not to use the names of any minor children, okay?

Salem

Gracenote
11-18-2010, 01:13 PM
Sad to say but the "that's so gay" and "you're so gay" is very common right now amung teens. I hear it quite often from teens I know. My DD is 13 and knows better to say it in front of me and I hope she does not say it behind my back.

But, I have several teens on my FB friends list and I can tell you, I see "homework is so gay" and "my phone is gay, won't let me get texts" or "lol, you're so gay".

Like I said it's horrible, but it is BIG time slang right now. I have a 19 year old nephew that says it ALL THE TIME and it really irks me.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I work in the school system and "that's so gay" is the latest craze in insults. I am constantly telling them to stop. The same with "retard". I hate that word. I hear adults use it more than kids for some reason.

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 02:00 PM
I am curious if any of you were able to watch the show Sarah Palins Alaska?
And if so what are your thoughts?
Do you agree with the young man who set off the ugliness on FB by saying it was failing? I wasn't able to watch but did see some snippets from one of the entertainment shows. Alaska has some beautiful scenery, although I am prejudiced to the beauty of Montana, my fav place to fly fish. I know one thing, I wouldn't have the guts to climb a glacier like SP. I rappelled once and it scared the dickens out of me!

I am also curious as to your opinions of Bristol's performance on DWTS? Although she has consistantly improved each week, there have been some surprises this season, IMO.

I must sign out for awhile so please remember TOS and Salem's advice until Kimster is able to review the thread. BBL.

MOO

wm

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 02:05 PM
I hope the thread is merged with the SP thread in the PP. I'm having a hard time keeping up with/discussing this in both threads.
:smile:

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 02:39 PM
I am curious if any of you were able to watch the show Sarah Palins Alaska?
And if so what are your thoughts?
Do you agree with the young man who set off the ugliness on FB by saying it was failing? I wasn't able to watch but did see some snippets from one of the entertainment shows. Alaska has some beautiful scenery, although I am prejudiced to the beauty of Montana, my fav place to fly fish. I know one thing, I wouldn't have the guts to climb a glacier like SP. I rappelled once and it scared the dickens out of me!

I am also curious as to your opinions of Bristol's performance on DWTS? Although she has consistantly improved each week, there have been some surprises this season, IMO.

I must sign out for awhile so please remember TOS and Salem's advice until Kimster is able to review the thread. BBL.

MOO

wm


I watched the show and I loved it. Alaska is breathtaking! And it was a nice look into SP's life IMO.

I don't agree with the guy's comment about it failing, it got very high ratings for TLC. I don't remember the exact number or how high, but from what I read, the show did very well.

Bristol on DWTS has impressed me at times but I think she should have been gone a while ago. NO WAY she dances better than Brandy. But the show goes by 1/2 Judges scores and 1/2 viewers votes. So, I guess she's getting a lot of votes.

LyndyLoo
11-18-2010, 03:12 PM
When I was a kid 'gay' meant 'happy'! I am dating myself, LOL!

I am dating myself too waltzing..but when the term "******" was put in, I think the meaning of her using "gay" was clearified...so I do think it was meant as a slur, not so innocent....Yes she is 16 years old, and yes I do think that SP will do some "Attitude Adjustment" where public statements are being made by anyone from her family. SP is a public figure, and NOW her whole family has been thrust into the spotlight..so maybe best they refrain from nasty language and utterances that are deemed offensive...not a good plan when trying to portray "Goodness" or "Wholesomeness" (is that a word?) to the nation :blushing:

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 03:18 PM
I am dating myself too waltzing..but when the term "******" was put in, I think the meaning of her using "gay" was clearified...so I do think it was meant as a slur, not so innocent....Yes she is 16 years old, and yes I do think that SP will do some "Attitude Adjustment" where public statements are being made by anyone from her family. SP is a public figure, and NOW her whole family has been thrust into the spotlight..so maybe best they refrain from nasty language and utterances that are deemed offensive...not a good plan when trying to portray "Goodness" or "Wholesomeness" (is that a word?) to the nation :blushing:

I think they portray "normal teens" to the nation.

JMO

LyndyLoo
11-18-2010, 03:29 PM
I think they portray "normal teens" to the nation.

JMO

I have to say then, you are far more tolerant than myself..I would be mortified if either of my grown boyz or gandbabies for that matter talked like that in public..Yikes..I would run out of soap :yuck:

animlzrule
11-18-2010, 03:29 PM
I think they portray "normal teens" to the nation.

JMO

Ummmm....crass, mean-spirited, thoughtless, ignorant. Not so "normal".

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 03:36 PM
I have to say then, you are far more tolerant than myself..I would be mortified if either of my grown boyz or gandbabies for that matter talked like that in public..Yikes..I would run out of soap :yuck:

I didn't say I like it. My daughter knows not to say anything like that in front of me and I do hope she doesn't say it when I'm not around.

But "that's so gay" or "homework is gay" or "my phone is gay" is VERY COMMON slang right now.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 03:37 PM
Ummmm....crass, mean-spirited, thoughtless, ignorant. Not so "normal".

Then you've just described a WHOLE LOT of teens. It's the slang right now.
It's horrible, but it is what it is.

LyndyLoo
11-18-2010, 03:47 PM
I didn't say I like it. My daughter knows not to say anything like that in front of me and I do hope she doesn't say it when I'm not around.

But "that's so gay" or "homework is gay" or "my phone is gay" is VERY COMMON slang right now.

BBM..I would tend to agree with you IF that is how the term gay was meant..but IF you read the whole group of postings, the foul language, and equating that same person as a "******" which truy exposes her posting for what they were..homophobic slurs

BTW..I really didnt say you liked it, but tolerated..and when 4 letter words, and "******" are used in conjunction with her attacking posts..I have to say the meaning behind her typed words meant nothing along those highlighted lines I bolded..

I am sure SP will set her straight, and I do believe BP has already issued an apology for this..
http://www.tmz.com/2010/11/17/bristol-palin-apologizes-apology-willow-palin-sarah-palin-dancing-with-the-stars-facebook-sorry/

Cubby
11-18-2010, 03:50 PM
I think they portray "normal teens" to the nation.

JMO

I think 25 years ago that language was more tolerable though offensive. We live in a more politically correct world these days and for some the language SP's daughters chose to post on FB is as equally offensive as the F, C or N word. IMO. Also, I'm sure these girls know their behavior would make news based on who their mother is and how it's not a surprise when the children of political figures make poor choices such as this. I don't find their behavior 'normal' at all.

JMO

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 03:56 PM
I think 25 years ago that language was more tolerable though offensive. We live in a more politically correct world these days and for some the language SP's daughters chose to post on FB is as equally offensive as the F, C or N word. IMO. Also, I'm sure these girls know their behavior would make news based on who their mother is and how it's not a surprise when the children of political figures make poor choices such as this. I don't find their behavior 'normal' at all.

JMO

I'm just trying to make the point that it is used a TON by teens. It is so common that celebs such as Hillary Duff and Wanda Sykes have started a campaign and have done PSAs trying to get teens to stop useing it.

It has gone past "sexual" meaning and does not mean anything sexual anymore. They use it as lame or dumb.
I'm not saying it's right. Just that WP did not do anything that is out of the ordinary for teens right now.

I just looked it up and it has been recognized as "slang" since 2007. It's being used. It's a fact.

As I have said, I have several teen FB friends and I see it a lot. These are good kids and I don't think they are really meaning anything by it. It bothers me but it is what it is. It's being used as slang.

And, WP is 16! How many 16 year olds have you known that never did anything wrong? I don't know any.

Cubby
11-18-2010, 04:01 PM
We'll have to disagree it doesn't mean anything sexual anymore because imo it very much does and for people who are struggling with their sexual identity to suggest it doesn't mean anything sexual anymore - is imo, offensive.

Some would say the N and C and even F words don't mean anything anymore but imo they do.

We can agree to disagree.

jmvho

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 04:06 PM
Good comments Kimberly & LyndyLoo!

Kimberly, I think the general concensus is to move the thread to the PL. I agree that it is difficult switching back and forth between threads. We can also discuss this subject more openly in the private forum.

Thanks for your thoughts on the show. The scenes I saw were breathtaking. I'd love to go there someday. Alaska, Oregon and Washington are the only three states in the western US that I've yet to visit. I just wish it were a show about Alaska with Sarah and Todd and that the Palin children weren't involved. It's gotta add pressure to their already high profile lives which I feel is a part of the girls' meltdown on FB, MOO.

As far as Bristol's performance on DWTS, she has improved each week but isn't near as skillful and precise as some who have been voted off. She is at an unfair advantage because, let's face it, she is not a star, she is a teen advocate! (and the show is called DWTS and I feel the lineup should be stars, entertainment, sports, music, tv and movies) However, I do feel Bristol will win it due to the popular vote. I don't plan to watch any more episodes of DWTS this season because it's not about dancing anymore and I don't intend to watch the beautiful and graceful Jennifer Grey lose, LOL! (former dancer here)

LyndyLoo, I agree that these kids must be taught to watch their p's and q's, especially on social sites which are undergoing such scrutiny these days with cyber bullying. They must be taught to understand how things are interpreted by the public and how to just swoosh, let it go. Keep their heads up and keep rolling on. They have the opportunity to be great role models for our youth with their opportunity to be in the public eye. Quite frankly, I was very disappointed in Bristol's venomous remarks. She is a teen advocate after all!

Sorry for the long post, and as always this is JMO, IMO, MOO and all that jazz.

wm

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 04:19 PM
We'll have to disagree it doesn't mean anything sexual anymore because imo it very much does and for people who are struggling with their sexual identity to suggest it doesn't mean anything sexual anymore - is imo, offensive.

Some would say the N and C and even F words don't mean anything anymore but imo they do.

We can agree to disagree.

jmvho

I really don't think we are disagreeing at all to be honest Cubby. I know the word gay has sexual meaning, my point was that the teens that are using it are not using it in a sexual meaning kind of way. They are using it to mean dumb or stupid. I agree that is very offensive. Especially to gay teens.
I hate it.

But when a slang word is used so much for so long with a complete different meaning, kids pick it up. Kinda like when someone works with a group of people who cuss all the time. Cuss words often slip because it is so common around you.

I was just trying to make the point of how common it is and how it is being
used.

I'm sure it's very hard for someone to understand if they are not around a lot
of teens.

JMO

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 04:22 PM
Hi Cubby, I'm glad you joined the discussion. I agree the words in question are poor choices and IMO a lack of sensitivity training from the parents. Kids nowadays have too many communications avenues in which to act out and it's not communications with their parents. Parents need to take more action in monitoring what their kids are doing. I snooped in my kids business although I never told them so. I wanted to know what they were up to. I felt it was my responsibility as a parent. They were good kids but still made poor choices as all kids do which needed to be addressed.

MOO

wm

believe09
11-18-2010, 04:27 PM
You took the words right out of my mouth. I work in the school system and "that's so gay" is the latest craze in insults. I am constantly telling them to stop. The same with "retard". I hate that word. I hear adults use it more than kids for some reason.


Insult being the key phrase in this post. It is being used in a derogatory fashion. Not because it is warm and fuzzy. (Both terms referenced here.) I disagree that this is a PC issue, personally. This is the sheer foolishness of both or either girl choosing to use the terms knowing that they are high profile. At the minimum. The maximum-well that they think it is OK to say it.

Way back in the dinosaur age when I was in HS people used it too-same motivation. As a slur and a put down.

Filly
11-18-2010, 04:34 PM
When I was a kid 'gay' meant 'happy'! I am dating myself, LOL!

If you date yourself that is not so gay.;)

Agreeing with Kimberly here. Kids have been using the "everything is so gay" for years now. It's used so often I've heard kids say it in front of gay friends. One time a friend of DD's said "That is sooooooooo gay" about an outfit someone had on. Their friend who is gay quickly replied "Honey, if that was gay it would have some style".

However, the term ****** is an entirely different ballgame. That's a direct, disparaging, ugly term. I have heard gay men call other gay men that name and it is always in a negative, mean spirited way. Fag is just as bad.

A seemingly straight person weather a teen or kid using that word it is homophobic. I'm not thrilled with the "That's so gay" term. I mean it's gotten so trivial to these kids it's broken down to just "gay". You may ask if they like something and they'll go "gay". Which if we decode it means they don't like it and it's weird. They have to be broken of it that's how common that phrase is.

No I do not agree with it. Yes, I have called kids out on it. Usually just saying "So, that means it's what? There's something wrong with being gay? Oh or does that mean you really love it?" They'll just look at you stupified most of them. That they do hear I agree every single day. The word ****** that comes from somewhere else and they better be mindful it's not acceptable and it's hateful.

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 04:39 PM
To "Jew" someone is common slang, too, but that doesn't make it less offensive.

animlzrule
11-18-2010, 04:40 PM
Even if one were to characterize it as "slang", the context in which the words were used in this instance were clearly meant as slurs. And these particular words are especially ugly and their usage should never be chalked up to "just kids being kids". It's irresponsible and turning a blind eye to potentially dangerous dehumanization of others based on their sexual orientation. It's not harmless even if "everyone is doing it." :waitasec:

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 04:50 PM
I think we all agree is offensive and wrong. But she's 16. She is a minor.

I consider myself Avery careing kind individual. But, I cringe to think what came out of my mouth at 16.

Not saying it's right, not making excuses, but teens are gonna do stupid things.

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 04:54 PM
Would this dicussion be any different if, let's say.........

The young man who was called fat (in the FB comments) or Bristol for that matter (who weight was also referenced) became distraught by the comments because their weight is an issue and a struggle and either one committed suicide. Or if one of the persons called gay in the FB exchange REALLY was struggling with their identity and committed suicide?

Would we be saying 'oh it's just kids being kids'? It is our duty as parents to teach right from wrong and what is and is not acceptable in today's society. The dinosaur age is over. WE must be proactive and vigilant in teaching our young ones!

What you see is what you'll be. Stephen King's The Shining

MOO wm

Filly
11-18-2010, 04:57 PM
To "Jew" someone is common slang, too, but that doesn't make it less offensive.

What? What do you mean WAD? "To Jew"?

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 05:00 PM
What? What do you mean WAD? "To Jew"?

"To Jew" someone is to burn them in a business deal, haggle them mercilessly or to screw money out of someone. I have personally heard this many times. True it may have been more common "in the past" but I have also heard young people use it.

My meaning here is that what may have seemed harmless slang was (and still is) incredibly endemic of something not so harmless.

AutomaticAuttie
11-18-2010, 05:06 PM
How about when Obama was talking about his bowling game and he said, "It was like Special Olympics."

AutomaticAuttie
11-18-2010, 05:08 PM
Would this dicussion be any different if, let's say.........

The young man who was called fat (in the FB comments) or Bristol for that matter (who weight was also referenced) became distraught by the comments because their weight is an issue and a struggle and either one committed suicide. Or if one of the persons called gay in the FB exchange REALLY was struggling with their identity and committed suicide?

Would we be saying 'oh it's just kids being kids'? It is our duty as parents to teach right from wrong and what is and is not acceptable in today's society. The dinosaur age is over. WE must be proactive and vigilant in teaching our young ones!

What you see is what you'll be. Stephen King's The Shining

MOO wm


There are people here at websleuths that call Bristol names and others that hit the "thanks" button in support of the comments.

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 05:09 PM
Bristol's apology......WARNING some comments posted below article are offensive!!!!!!!

http://www.tmz.com/2010/11/17/bristol-palin-apologizes-apology-willow-palin-sarah-palin-dancing-with-the-stars-facebook-sorry/#comments-anchor

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 05:10 PM
There are people here at websleuths that call Bristol names and others that hit the "thanks" button in support of the comments.

Please alert such comments when you see them.

zadari
11-18-2010, 05:11 PM
this shouldnt have even made the news ect.. no one should be insulted no matter who you are .. gay or not .fat or not ect.. but fact is ppl are very mean behind a keyboard.. and in general the world is nothing like it once was where a neighbor would come down and lend a hand building a barn or take care of a sick neighbor ..

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 05:12 PM
There are people here at websleuths that call Bristol names and others that hit the "thanks" button in support of the comments.

Shameful!!!! That is one reason why I avoid the PP downstairs. I don't like ugly!!

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Would this dicussion be any different if, let's say.........

The young man who was called fat (in the FB comments) or Bristol for that matter (who weight was also referenced) became distraught by the comments because their weight is an issue and a struggle and either one committed suicide. Or if one of the persons called gay in the FB exchange REALLY was struggling with their identity and committed suicide?

Would we be saying 'oh it's just kids being kids'? It is our duty as parents to teach right from wrong and what is and is not acceptable in today's society. The dinosaur age is over. WE must be proactive and vigilant in teaching our young ones!

What you see is what you'll be. Stephen King's The Shining

MOO wm

JMO but this is taking it a little too far. Trust me, the gay teens of America know this is slang. I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of them use it themselves.
We have a member that I talk to (argue with :smile:) daily in the Political Pavillion in the Sarah Palin thread downstairs. He is an openly gay liberal male. He posted a little while ago and I think you would be surprised by what he had to say about this issue. I know I was.

Cubby
11-18-2010, 05:16 PM
I really don't think we are disagreeing at all to be honest Cubby. I know the word gay has sexual meaning, my point was that the teens that are using it are not using it in a sexual meaning kind of way. They are using it to mean dumb or stupid. I agree that is very offensive. Especially to gay teens.
I hate it.

But when a slang word is used so much for so long with a complete different meaning, kids pick it up. Kinda like when someone works with a group of people who cuss all the time. Cuss words often slip because it is so common around you.

I was just trying to make the point of how common it is and how it is being
used.

I'm sure it's very hard for someone to understand if they are not around a lot
of teens.

JMO

I understand what you are saying but I still have to disagree. It is known those words are hurtful and they were used deliberately to be hurtful. Not in a million years would I believe the Palin daughters are unaware of the recent teenage suicides due to bullying against gays. They are well aware and chose these particular words anyway. when there were a number of other words they could have chosen.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:17 PM
I understand what you are saying but I still have to disagree. It is known those words are hurtful and they were used deliberately to be hurtful. Not in a million years would I believe the Palin daughters are unaware of the recent teenage suicides due to bullying against gays. They are well aware and chose these particular words anyway. when there were a number of other words they could have chosen.

Okie Dokie :smile:

LyndyLoo
11-18-2010, 05:18 PM
Would this dicussion be any different if, let's say.........

The young man who was called fat (in the FB comments) or Bristol for that matter (who weight was also referenced) became distraught by the comments because their weight is an issue and a struggle and either one committed suicide. Or if one of the persons called gay in the FB exchange REALLY was struggling with their identity and committed suicide?

Would we be saying 'oh it's just kids being kids'? It is our duty as parents to teach right from wrong and what is and is not acceptable in today's society. The dinosaur age is over. WE must be proactive and vigilant in teaching our young ones!

What you see is what you'll be. Stephen King's The Shining

MOO wm

I so agree with your premise here...The advent of FB, twitter, IM'ing, texting has removed true understanding of how words can hurt, offend or even drive someone to do something heinous, or drive them to hurt themselves.

Somehow the ability to hurl hateful, nastiness via a keyboard has desensitized our young folk to (some adults too ) and lack empathy, feelings and understanding.. It has become so arms length....that there is total ignorance of feelings..not to mention the ability to adhere to the old saying "Sticks and Stones".... For some reason there are is a lack of a "Brake System" when it comes to typing words of hate, anger or displeasure...thus extremes get typed and exposed to the world to see and read...

I just watched a court case where hateful, threatening texts became evidence of guilt and "State of Mind"..and the girl is going to spend most her life in prison..Such a sad case!! My point is for some reason young people find it difficult to discuss, defend or express themselves without cursing, threatening and demeaning the other person...I for one dont accept the saying "Well, thats progress, or Kids will be Kids"...Its time for cool heads to prevail....Yikes...OFF my soapbox...Sorry :o

Cubby
11-18-2010, 05:19 PM
How about when Obama was talking about his bowling game and he said, "It was like Special Olympics."


Friendly reminder. This is NOT the PP folks. This forum is in celebrity news. One of these daughters is on a reality show, and it is fair to discuss this in this area of the forum.

Please keep the political discussion in the PP forum where it belongs.

Thank you,
Cubby

Filly
11-18-2010, 05:21 PM
"To Jew" someone is to burn them in a business deal, haggle them mercilessly or to screw money out of someone. I have personally heard this many times. True it may have been more common "in the past" but I have also heard young people use it.

My meaning here is that what may have seemed harmless slang was (and still is) incredibly endemic of something not so harmless.

O.K. I got ya, WAD. I wasn't sure about the "TO" part. That's an ethnic slur indeed. I have a friend who says "I'm a Jew who practices Judaism". Says it often enough in certain situations.

No doubt it's still common. It depends on who you hang with I guess. Slurs, slang can all lead to something else.

Not sure if this is even the place to bring this up but it has always befuddled me. My parents came up middle class from a largely German-American neighborhood. My dad more so my mom would be telling a story from youth and our mouths would just drop. I mean back then people just had no mercy. You got a nickname which directly was connected to your ethnic background or a handicap or your weakest link. These were friends too. Nothing meant to be mean. It does fit in though that if accepted by one or two people it just carries over. Today we wouldn't even use the word handicap.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:24 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/20101118/pl_dailycaller/palindaughtersarethreatenedtauntedinfacebookwar_1

TMZ obtained screenshots yesterday of the Facebook debate, which began when a Facebook user and former classmate of the Palin girls named Tre posted a status update that said, “Sarah Palin’s Alaska, is soo failing hard right now.” Willow Palin responded, “Don’t watch it dumb s***” and Bristol Palin wrote, “You’re running your mouth just to talk s*** .”

Tre replied with, “Willow, don’t make me count to three” and a boy name Matt wrote, “not as fat as Bristol … The only program I enjoyed from your family is Nailin’ Palin.”

***KEEP IN MIND, all this came BEFORE the "you're so Gay" remark.
So this boy likes "Nailin Palin"??? I'd say that's pretty offensive.

IMO these boys were trying to get them to react and they did. Then, I guess they got screen shots to sell to the media.

IMO the Palin daughters were targeted.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:26 PM
From that same link:

The news outlets that have written about this story have attributed anti-gay views and bigotry to Willow Palin, a minor, but none have questioned Facebook user Matt’s comments calling the Palin daughters a slur for a prostitute.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:27 PM
I think they got really upset and were trying to defend themselves. I say things I shouldn't sometimes when I get mad and I'm 35.

Cubby
11-18-2010, 05:28 PM
Hi Cubby, I'm glad you joined the discussion. I agree the words in question are poor choices and IMO a lack of sensitivity training from the parents. Kids nowadays have too many communications avenues in which to act out and it's not communications with their parents. Parents need to take more action in monitoring what their kids are doing. I snooped in my kids business although I never told them so. I wanted to know what they were up to. I felt it was my responsibility as a parent. They were good kids but still made poor choices as all kids do which needed to be addressed.

MOO

wm

My second grader knows calling someone ****** or gay is considered offensive. Because his school system instills that in students and so do I as a parent. IF my son was overly using those words at school he would be kicked out, but as a parent who sends my child to a parochial school - those type of schools do not put up with it.

However he knows not only those words are offensive, but knows others are as well, and knows even ethnic jokes/terms (regardless of race) are not cool. I used to joke about myself as a Polack, until my son came home and said the polack kid in the neighborhood - first generation from Poland. I was mortified! It was then I had the talk with him about name calling and bad words.

As a parent I would be much more comfortable with say, George Carlins 7 words. Not that I would be proud of them... but I think there are a lot of words which could make the point effectively without using words which are considered so derogatory to a specific group.

jmo

tlcya
11-18-2010, 05:31 PM
wow, Sarah must be mortified. As someone who espouses family values, etc, I be she is in some serious damage control mode today and I'll be those young ladies got a serious talkin to about what they choose to put out there.

shakes head. If my kids ever posted that kinda garbage on FB there would be he77 to pay.

LadyL
11-18-2010, 05:32 PM
I agree that it's common usage and has been since at least the early 80's since I clearly remember it being used all the time in high school. Doesn't make it right of course. This looks like an opportunity to educate people that we need to be aware that our choice of words can be extremely offensive and hurtful.

krimekat
11-18-2010, 05:36 PM
looks like Mama Bear had her baby delete her FB page . . .

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:36 PM
This is interesting. I knew it was common, but this says 9 out of 10 have heard it at school. That's REALLY common. And this is from 2005. It's been around a while.

***before I get mauled, I'm not bringing this link forward to make excuses for it or to say it's right, I was just amazed by the info***

http://gayteens.about.com/od/safetytips/a/thatssogay.htm

That's So Gay: One of many homophobic slurs
Have you ever heard someone say, "That's so gay" to indicate that something is stupid, negative or girly? You'd be in the minority if you hadn't. According to the 2005 Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network National School Climate Survey nearly nine out of ten students reported hearing, "that's so gay" or "you're so gay" at school!

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Here is Wanda Syke's PSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS0GVOQPs0

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Here is Hillary Duff's PSA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_MIb3mYznE&NR=1

animlzrule
11-18-2010, 05:41 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/20101118/pl_dailycaller/palindaughtersarethreatenedtauntedinfacebookwar_1

TMZ obtained screenshots yesterday of the Facebook debate, which began when a Facebook user and former classmate of the Palin girls named Tre posted a status update that said, “Sarah Palin’s Alaska, is soo failing hard right now.” Willow Palin responded, “Don’t watch it dumb s***” and Bristol Palin wrote, “You’re running your mouth just to talk s*** .”

Tre replied with, “Willow, don’t make me count to three” and a boy name Matt wrote, “not as fat as Bristol … The only program I enjoyed from your family is Nailin’ Palin.”

***KEEP IN MIND, all this came BEFORE the "you're so Gay" remark.
So this boy likes "Nailin Palin"??? I'd say that's pretty offensive.

IMO these boys were trying to get them to react and they did. Then, I guess they got screen shots to sell to the media.

IMO the Palin daughters were targeted.

Even if the Palin's were goaded into this exchange, I still fail to see how that makes any of it ok???:waitasec:The behavior of all involved is shameful, and not harmless. All involved display shockingly immature behavior. And 16 is PLENTY old enough to understand how to conduct oneself in public, as well as to be fully aware that those words are hate speech. If they don't know this then they lead shockingly cloistered lives in their little town. I wouldn't have been so disheartened to hear that this had all come from the mouths of 12 year olds because I expect some degree of experimentation with boundaries and language, but 16??? It's indefensible. If I ever caught my son spewing those ideas and language on Facebook, well, bye bye Facebook. But educating your kids about intolerance and bigotry starts at a very young age and by the time they hit middle school they should be well aware of what lines cannot be crossed without harsh consequences.

waltzingmatilda
11-18-2010, 05:45 PM
JMO but this is taking it a little too far. Trust me, the gay teens of America know this is slang. I wouldn't be shocked if a lot of them use it themselves.
We have a member that I talk to (argue with :smile:) daily in the Political Pavillion in the Sarah Palin thread downstairs. He is an openly gay liberal male. He posted a little while ago and I think you would be surprised by what he had to say about this issue. I know I was.

Oh Kimberly, I am sorry you feel that way. Words can be very hurtful. I underwent ALOT of scrutiny when I became ill with an autoimmune disease. It took several years to diagnose as my health deteriorated along with my sick days. My coworkers became so mean and their words and slurs devastated me as I began to rely on a cane more and more for mobility. I finally quit my job because the meaness was killing me inside. I had lost my identity and felt everyone's contempt for the inconvenience my illness caused at the workplace. Life dealt me the a low blow, I truly wanted to die, (never attempted suicide because I'd never do that to my kids)....and a part of me did die as the realization set in that I would never be the same and would never be physically able to perform my job again.

I embrace the transformation now and am grateful for the dedication of 3 or 4 great human beings who helped me thru the darkness. I now like my cane and even named her, LOL!

We have no way of knowing everyone's story or what tiny little thing may tip someone over the edge if one is scrutinized for being 'different'.

Sorry for the long personal story. I must sign off now and will BBL.

You all keep up the great discussion. wm

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:48 PM
Even if the Palin's were goaded into this exchange, I still fail to see how that makes any of it ok???:waitasec:The behavior of all involved is shameful, and not harmless. All involved display shockingly immature behavior. And 16 is PLENTY old enough to understand how to conduct oneself in public, as well as to be fully aware that those words are hate speech. If they don't know this then they lead shockingly cloistered lives in their little town. I wouldn't have been so disheartened to hear that this had all come from the mouths of 12 year olds because I expect some degree of experimentation with boundaries and language, but 16??? It's indefensible. If I ever caught my son spewing those ideas and language on Facebook, well, bye bye Facebook. But educating your kids about intolerance and bigotry starts at a very young age and by the time they hit middle school they should be well aware of what lines cannot be crossed without harsh consequences.

I didn't say it was ok.

Where did I say it was ok?

You never said anything that was wrong at 16? I'm sure I did at some point. But there are no screen shots of it. Because we had no FB and my Mom is not SP so nobody was targeting me to make money from the media.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 05:51 PM
Oh Kimberly, I am sorry you feel that way. Words can be very hurtful. I underwent ALOT of scrutiny when I became ill with an autoimmune disease. It took several years to diagnose as my health deteriorated along with my sick days. My coworkers became so mean and their words and slurs devastated me as I began to rely on a cane more and more for mobility. I finally quit my job because the meaness was killing me inside. I had lost my identity and felt everyone's contempt for the inconvenience my illness caused at the workplace. Life dealt me the a low blow, I truly wanted to die, (never attempted suicide because I'd never do that to my kids)....and a part of me did die as the realization set in that I would never be the same and would never be physically able to perform my job again.

I embrace the transformation now and am grateful for the dedication of 3 or 4 great human beings who helped me thru the darkness. I now like my cane and even named her, LOL!

We have no way of knowing everyone's story or what tiny little thing may tip someone over the edge if one is scrutinized for being 'different'.

Sorry for the long personal story. I must sign off now and will BBL.

You all keep up the great discussion. wm

Sorry you had to go through that. But, that is WAY different than a few teens mutually exchanging insults on FB.
They were all dishing it. There is no "victim" here.

If I had to pick a victim, it would the the Palins because they were targeted because of who their mother is.

JMO

ETA: And, I think these guys got what they wanted! They were not bullied.

Cubby
11-18-2010, 05:59 PM
Friendly reminder.

PLEASE keep the members only forum discussions where they belong. You guys know better..... TO's may be issued for long time members who carry info from private to non private area's of the forum.

Also, it is NOT unusual for concurrent discussion to occur at WS. At times we have a thread in the unidentified forum, while the same or a similiar topic is being discussed in the crimes in the news area.

PLEASE keep this in mind.

Thank you,

Cubby

animlzrule
11-18-2010, 06:07 PM
Sorry you had to go through that. But, that is WAY different than a few teens mutually exchanging insults on FB.
They were all dishing it. There is no "victim" here.

If I had to pick a victim, it would the the Palins because they were targeted because of who their mother is.

JMO

ETA: And, I think these guys got what they wanted! They were not bullied.

Well, now we're veering off into Palin persecution conspiracies. Not really relevant to the topic, which is the ugly manner in which the Palin girls conducted themselves during a facebook exchange. A.) The use of such offensive words should never be tolerated, and B.) Seeing as how they are part of a family in the national spotlight, it was shockingly naive and reckless to participate. Just because someone is goading you doesn't mean you have to behave in kind, and shame on you if you do.

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 06:10 PM
Well, now we're veering off into Palin persecution conspiracies. Not really relevant to the topic, which is the ugly manner in which the Palin girls conducted themselves during a facebook exchange. A.) The use of such offensive words should never be tolerated, and B.) Seeing as how they are part of a family in the national spotlight, it was shockingly naive and reckless to participate. Just because someone is goading you doesn't mean you have to behave in kind, and shame on you if you do.

BBM

Not really - it got them a lot of free publicity. (She did manage to stick a promo into her apology. I am not sure she is so unsavvy as it might appear.)

animlzrule
11-18-2010, 06:13 PM
BBM

Not really - it got them a lot of free publicity. (She did manage to stick a promo into her apology. I am not sure she is so unsavvy as it might appear.)

Well, I suppose so. I'd think it would be better to be known for being classy, intelligent, mature young women. Do they really need to be courting negative publicity????

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 06:16 PM
Well, now we're veering off into Palin persecution conspiracies. Not really relevant to the topic, which is the ugly manner in which the Palin girls conducted themselves during a facebook exchange. A.) The use of such offensive words should never be tolerated, and B.) Seeing as how they are part of a family in the national spotlight, it was shockingly naive and reckless to participate. Just because someone is goading you doesn't mean you have to behave in kind, and shame on you if you do.

While I agree a little bit, this was a mutual exchange. Nobody was bullied.

Although WP is SP's daughter, she's still a teen. Just like the boys who were doing the same thing. I don't hear the OUTRAGE about those boys saying the disgusting things they said.

The only reason this is news is because of who WP and BP's mother is.

ETA: And no "Palin persecution conspiracies" intended. It's the same with anybody who is famous. They are often targeted for financial gain. Somebody sold those screenshots. Somebody made money on this ordeal.

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 06:17 PM
Well, I suppose so. I'd think it would be better to be known for being classy, intelligent, mature young women. Do they really need to be courting negative publicity????

I personally would prefer to be known as classy and mature. But I am not entirely sure that this will be negative in the long run, once the critics stop talking about it. Many will certainly just chalk it up to "kids being kids" and leave it at that. Others will defend them as persecuted by liberals and/or the media. And still others will enjoy (or at least not mind) the gay slurs. I think the crowd they want for an audience really don't mind it when people put gays down, because it is not a minority they care about protecting.

Filly
11-18-2010, 06:18 PM
I used to joke about myself as a Polack, until my son came home and said the polack kid in the neighborhood - first generation from Poland. I was mortified! It was then I had the talk with him about name calling and bad words.



jmo

Doesn't it floor you that something seemingly harmless you even call yourself comes out of your child's mouth and then it hits ya like a ton of bricks? Had that happen with DD in second grade with a term my dad referred to himself as.

BTW, Gentleman friend is Polish and he does that too Cubby all the time. Thank goodness he doesn't have kids. His entire family does it.

Geoge Carlin compared to some of the old timers had nothing on them. I referr back to my previous post. In all actuality it's a good learning lesson and everyone can come out of it a bit wiser.

Maybe this isn't the right place to ask the question but people from certain generations will tell you we're all too PC and that it toughens you up to be called or referred to in a certain way. Does it toughen you up? I say no. I guess I'd have to ask somebody who is now 78 years old or so "Did you mind being called One Eyed Camel growing up? Why did you refer to yourself with the name your "buddies" gave you?"

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 06:20 PM
While I agree a little bit, this was a mutual exchange. Nobody was bullied.

Although WP is SP's daughter, she's still a teen. Just like the boys who were doing the same thing. I don't hear the OUTRAGE about those boys saying the disgusting things they said.

The only reason this is news is because of who WP and BP's mother is.

I personally leave WP out of my public opinion on this matter, and I agree this would not have made the news if not for their famous mother (though BP has also gone out of her way to make as much of that fame as possible, and is now a celebrity in her own right for some baffling reason). And I see your point about the exchange, as it is possible those boys were just as vile.

However, I disagree that slurs are a victimless crime - they contribute to a larger attitude that leads to the bullying of others. Simply my opinion, for what it is worth.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 06:29 PM
Friendly reminder. This is NOT the PP folks. This forum is in celebrity news. One of these daughters is on a reality show, and it is fair to discuss this in this area of the forum.

Please keep the political discussion in the PP forum where it belongs.

Thank you,
Cubby

bump bump :smile:

WhyaDuck?
11-18-2010, 06:31 PM
Kimberley, if that bump was for my benefit, I am unsure as to where I got too political. Please alert my posts if I was in violation, so a mod can disable my comments.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 06:34 PM
It was just a bump.

daisy7
11-18-2010, 06:37 PM
Friendly reminder.

PLEASE keep the members only forum discussions where they belong. You guys know better..... TO's may be issued for long time members who carry info from private to non private area's of the forum.

Also, it is NOT unusual for concurrent discussion to occur at WS. At times we have a thread in the unidentified forum, while the same or a similiar topic is being discussed in the crimes in the news area.

PLEASE keep this in mind.

Thank you,

Cubby

Bump. This means posts in the PP can not be discussed on this thread.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 06:47 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/18/stewart-palin-media-circus_n_785293.html


WATCH: Jon Stewart Takes On The Palin Family Media Circus


Link to Jon Stewarts video about WP and BP

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 06:55 PM
Bump. This means posts in the PP can not be discussed on this thread.

I did not realize my post #49 was in violation of this until Cubby's post #69.
It's too late for the to delete it.

Gracenote
11-18-2010, 07:17 PM
I have relatives in a very small backward town and they throw the N word around like it's nothing. They even have a neighbor they call N-James to distinguish him from the "other" James. They do this to his face. I don't talk to them anymore, after years of trying and explaining and praying, they have no desire to change. Not sure what my point is, except maybe that there are some, especially teenagers, who are too unlearned to even know that their words are wrong. I don't think that teens, especially small town rural teens have any concept of the impact some words have. They need to be educated.

Linda7NJ
11-18-2010, 07:17 PM
I think they portray "normal teens" to the nation.

JMO


You call that normal?

It's unacceptable, wrong and needs to be labeled as such, not excused. There is no excuse.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 07:28 PM
You call that normal?

It's unacceptable, wrong and needs to be labeled as such, not excused. There is no excuse.

If you will keep reading my posts after the one you quoted, you will see why I said that.

Cubby
11-18-2010, 08:13 PM
Doesn't it floor you that something seemingly harmless you even call yourself comes out of your child's mouth and then it hits ya like a ton of bricks? Had that happen with DD in second grade with a term my dad referred to himself as.

BTW, Gentleman friend is Polish and he does that too Cubby all the time. Thank goodness he doesn't have kids. His entire family does it.

Geoge Carlin compared to some of the old timers had nothing on them. I referr back to my previous post. In all actuality it's a good learning lesson and everyone can come out of it a bit wiser.

Maybe this isn't the right place to ask the question but people from certain generations will tell you we're all too PC and that it toughens you up to be called or referred to in a certain way. Does it toughen you up? I say no. I guess I'd have to ask somebody who is now 78 years old or so "Did you mind being called One Eyed Camel growing up? Why did you refer to yourself with the name your "buddies" gave you?"

My dad is still in his 60's. Hanging on by a thread but still in his sixties. He and his folks taught me... Back in the day you best not let a neighbor tell your folks what you did.. and that was worse than coming home after the street lights went on.

I was well into my mid 20's when I first learnt of some old European racial slurs... and boy was I smacked for even speaking that to only the class of 70's when I was class of 80's.... You got smacked, and learnt..


I remember that being toughened up Filly, but I also remember horrible things that I can not comment about here.- one I will share my giant nose looked like the landings for Ohare.... and how it took me 20 plus years to think of a come back about how I might fit in with that nose. Let alone all the other ugly words I heard as a teen.

If bullying is not nipped in grade school - JMO and I think some of us are really harping on our young prek through 3rd to instill the bullying and drugs are NOT kewl!

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 08:22 PM
Very common (offensive) slang.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/magazine/27out-t.html?pagewanted=5&_r=1

By far the most common usage of the word “gay” in middle schools is in the expression “that’s so gay,” a popular adolescent phrase that means that something is dumb or lame. The phrase has become so ubiquitous in the culture of the average middle school that even friends of gay students sometimes use it

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 08:43 PM
Wow, I didn't realize Katty Perry has a song called "UR So Gay".
Lyrics are beyond crazy BTW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur_So_Gay

believe09
11-18-2010, 09:50 PM
I am intrigued...if we collectively seem to agree that these are homophobic slurs, why the need to continue to document areas where the slang is used in current culture?

It is tough for any thinking teen or adult to justify saying it-sure they sling it, but when they are asked to stop and think about it, well it is really impossible to justify.

In my parents day they used the n word to describe blacks. It was slang back then too. ETA: it is all about evolution.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 10:16 PM
I am intrigued...if we collectively seem to agree that these are homophobic slurs, why the need to continue to document areas where the slang is used in current culture?

It is tough for any thinking teen or adult to justify saying it-sure they sling it, but when they are asked to stop and think about it, well it is really impossible to justify.

In my parents day they used the n word to describe blacks. It was slang back then too. ETA: it is all about evolution.

Sorry, It's how I learn. I research a topic then provide what I find by links.
I not only documented areas where the slang is used in current cultures, I also provided links to PSAs against it and other info.

The N word is still used everyday as slang. It's wrong too.

I'm have not been trying to make excuses for what WP said, but I have tried to point out how common it is in case those who are not around teens do not know. I am around a lot of teens and when I hear it, my skin crawls. But, I can promise it's on a lot of teens FB pages.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
11-18-2010, 11:21 PM
http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/thumbs/Print_Jock.jpg http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/thumbs/Print_Cheerleader.jpg http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/thumbs/Print_GamerGuy.jpg

"Think that's mean? How do you think 'that's so gay' sounds? Hurtful. So knock it off."

http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/DownloadandShare/

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK. It's not hard. (Just because something is "common" today, doesn't make it right. And definitely doesn't excuse it.)

tlcya
11-18-2010, 11:23 PM
I love ya kimberly but I gotta say, just because it is common doesn't make it not worth getting frustrated about or trying to change. I don't care what teens were having this exchange, I would find it shameful. Add the fact that because of their mother's public status in a rather serious arena, and Bristol trying to win a show (DWTS) and build a career somehow in the public eye, I am frankly shocked that these particular girls dont know better.

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 11:28 PM
I agree. But we are talking about a 16 year old CHILD here. Just because she is the daughter of a public figure does not make her less of a child.

What she did was wrong, I never said it wasn't.

Like I've said over and over... I was just trying to point out for those WHO ARE NOT around teens much, how common it is.

I never said it was right. But coming down on WP, a 16 year old child, for something that A LOT of teens do, just because her mother is a political figure (or any other celebrity figure) is just plain wrong IMO.

So now there is a web of ADULTS coming down on a 16 year old and her family. I just think a 16 year olds FB page should be off limits to the media.

I think many would be shocked at what their kids say when they are not listening.

SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
11-18-2010, 11:36 PM
I agree. But we are talking about a 16 year old CHILD here. Just because she is the daughter of a public figure does not make her less of a child.

What she did was wrong, I never said it wasn't.

Like I've said over and over... I was just trying to point out for those WHO ARE NOT around teens much, how common it is.

I never said it was right. But coming down on WP, a 16 year old child, for something that A LOT of teens do, just because her mother is a political figure (or any other celebrity figure) is just plain wrong IMO.

So now there is a web of ADULTS coming down on a 16 year old and her family. I just think a 16 year olds FB page should be off limits to the media.

I think many would be shocked at what their kids say when they are not listening.

FWIW, I'm around teens every day. For hours and hours each day. I "come down on them" for saying things like this too. I work with athletes, so the first poster I just posted above is hanging in my room at the school. That language is not acceptable. No matter who your mother is.

I don't think anyone *here* is coming down on her because her mother is a political figure. The media picked up on it for that reason, yes. But if this was a news story about *any* child saying this on their facebook page, my reaction would be exactly the same.

tlcya
11-18-2010, 11:37 PM
I am not coming down per se on her and her family. Just saying, no matter my thoughts on Mrs Palin's job or views or whatever, I can feel myself in her shoes on THIS matter. I will say it again,

there would be he77 to pay at my house if I were her right now. First of all I expect my kids to know how to comport themselves in public. These FB walls were public.

Quite frankly, I am shocked these girls are not more security conscious etc with all this FB posting. This wall was open for all to see! TMZ (celebu-stalkers) found this and broke the story. What if a person who wanted to do them real harm found it and somehow used their FB accounts to hack into their lives and caused real harm to someone??

I would be livid, and rightfully so if I was these young ladies mother.

I think my kids will not be allowed to FB til they are 18

Kimberlyd125
11-18-2010, 11:47 PM
TMZ "found" it or it was sold to them? Have they said how they got it. I looked but I must have missed it.

tlcya
11-18-2010, 11:52 PM
TMZ "found" it or it was sold to them? Have they said how they got it. I looked but I must have missed it.

Either way, as a mother, I am mortified at the security risk these girls place unnecessarily on themselves by this FB activity

If it was sold to TMZ then it speaks to the kindof friends these girls are making. The mother in me is, embarrassed for them, by their behavior/comments and scared by their lack of good judgment.

That is just me.

again. I think my kids don't need FB. I do not want to be worrying about this garbage when they are teens.

hoppyfrog
11-18-2010, 11:57 PM
For those who think "gay" is a harmless adjective , please read this:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...1/16/simonson/

For gay teens who have considered suicide

November 16, 2010

By Sean Simonson

I have considered suicide. Yes, I have considered taking my own life. Unlike six other boys recently in the news, I never took the steps to follow through on my dark thoughts, but, unfortunately, I can understand what drove them to. Because I know what it's like to be a gay teenager.

Imagine going through adolescence: hormones raging, body changing, and relationships that go a little deeper than friendship developing. Now, add on being gay.

Don't believe being different is difficult? Try going through a day in the life of a gay teen.

Every day you hear someone use your sexuality -- a part of you that, no matter how desperately you try, you cannot change -- as a negative adjective. That hurts.

You fear looking the wrong way in the locker room and offending someone. Politicians are allowed to debate your right to marry the person you love or your right to be protected from hate crimes under the law. Your faith preaches your exclusion -- or damnation. And no one does anything to stop it.

more at link

Dark Knight
11-18-2010, 11:58 PM
I like this comment below the article on Bristol's apology:

"A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος,phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is an irrational, intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people. The main symptom of this disorder is the excessive and unreasonable desire to avoid the feared stimulus. When the fear is beyond one's control, and if the fear is interfering with daily life, then a diagnosis under one of the anxiety disorders can be made.[1]
-----------
learn the definition of phobia before calling everyone who uses the word ****** a homophobe..do we can people who use the N word blackophobes??"


I was probably more appalled at Willow saying people were just jealous because they were rich and successful and they were all losers. And was surprised that such a "conservative" mom would have such a potty mouthed daughter. They have sort of thin skin when it comes to criticism, too. They just said they didn't like the show. Geez, lol.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:00 AM
Nevermind...I found it.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 12:00 AM
I like this comment below the article on Bristol's apology:

"A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος,phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is an irrational, intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people. The main symptom of this disorder is the excessive and unreasonable desire to avoid the feared stimulus. When the fear is beyond one's control, and if the fear is interfering with daily life, then a diagnosis under one of the anxiety disorders can be made.[1]
-----------
learn the definition of phobia before calling everyone who uses the word ****** a homophobe..do we can people who use the N word blackophobes??"


I was probably more appalled at Willow saying people were just jealous because they were rich and successful and they were all losers. And was surprised that such a "conservative" mom would have such a potty mouthed daughter. They have sort of thin skin when it comes to criticism, too. They just said they didn't like the show. Geez, lol.

I agree - I am not crazy about the term homophobe for people who are anti-gay, either. I actually know a guy who is literally homophobic - he knows it is irrational, but can't help himself. Most people who drop nasty slurs can help themselves - they just choose not to.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:00 AM
I really don't think anybody here has said it is a harmless adjective.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:03 AM
I like this comment below the article on Bristol's apology:

"A phobia (from the Greek: φόβος,phóbos, meaning "fear" or "morbid fear") is an irrational, intense and persistent fear of certain situations, activities, things, animals, or people. The main symptom of this disorder is the excessive and unreasonable desire to avoid the feared stimulus. When the fear is beyond one's control, and if the fear is interfering with daily life, then a diagnosis under one of the anxiety disorders can be made.[1]
-----------
learn the definition of phobia before calling everyone who uses the word ****** a homophobe..do we can people who use the N word blackophobes??"


I was probably more appalled at Willow saying people were just jealous because they were rich and successful and they were all losers. And was surprised that such a "conservative" mom would have such a potty mouthed daughter. They have sort of thin skin when it comes to criticism, too. They just said they didn't like the show. Geez, lol.

Actually Dark Knight, they said much more than that. They called Bristol fat and talked about the show "nailin Palin" before WP said what she did. I'm not saying that makes it right, but they didn't just say they didn't like the show.
It was a heated exchange between 4 people. They all said things they shouldn't have. But lets not say that WP said those things just because the boy said he didn't like the show.

Cubby
11-19-2010, 12:07 AM
http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/thumbs/Print_Jock.jpg http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/thumbs/Print_Cheerleader.jpg http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/TheCampaign/thumbs/Print_GamerGuy.jpg

"Think that's mean? How do you think 'that's so gay' sounds? Hurtful. So knock it off."

http://www.thinkb4youspeak.com/DownloadandShare/

THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK. It's not hard. (Just because something is "common" today, doesn't make it right. And definitely doesn't excuse it.)
Back in the not so long ago day, my Godson wore his collar up on his uniform - you know the good old uniform Izod shirts. IMO it was a fantastic statement.... (and his Band was in the Macy's TG parade a few years ago... )

Maybe a bit odd, but today it is hip to be square! I suppose being politically correct and respecting others and their differences is just plain old square an too troubling.... :(

What happened to the good old days when our ideals weren't based on dumbing someone else down?

JBean
11-19-2010, 12:08 AM
well imo, it is used in a derogatory fashion so we know exactly how it was meant and that is not ok.
part of the reason kids use it is because adults are desensitized by its common usage and don't have consequences for this kind of behavior. Hey all teens drink so let's just let them drink at our house where we can watch them. The "everyone's doing it" logic has been adopted by some adults. Shoot we used to try that as kids but my folks never fell for it. LOL

the behavior gets normalized because everyone does it or says it and the next thing you know it's not a big deal.

Parents need to keep teaching kids to raise their level of conversation and behavior.

JBean
11-19-2010, 12:09 AM
Back in the not so long ago day, my Godson wore his collar up on his uniform - you know the good old uniform Izod shirts. IMO it was a fantastic statement.... (and his Band was in the Macy's TG parade a few years ago... )

Maybe a bit odd, but today it is hip to be square! I suppose being politically correct and respecting others and their differences is just plain old square an too troubling.... :(

What happened to the good old days when self worth wasn't based on dumbing someone else down?
Oh that's so Cubby.

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 12:09 AM
I am worried about the internet and the web causing more problems for young people. It is almost like if a young person makes a mistake that is no longer handled by the parents without it becoming something that the world could know about. I remember running away from home (didn't get very far), making mistakes and being corrected by my parents. Now with Facebook, Myspace and the internet, it can become known to the world and if the child wasn't embarrassed enough by having being corrected by their parents, to have the world judging a lapse in judgment is really tough. I hope when I make my mistakes in life, which will continue, that it is not photographed, recorded or broadcast to the world...my mistakes are between me, who I made the mistake with or to, and God.

animlzrule
11-19-2010, 12:12 AM
I really don't think anybody here has said it is a harmless adjective.

Not in those exact words but it has been suggested by some over and over that since it's "slang" and everyone is doing it, it shouldn't be causing the uproar that it is. I for one am pleased it has gotten such a big response, as it confirms that there are those out there who are attempting to evolve their thinking. 16 is about 4-5 years past the point where I would expect kids to have an understanding of what is reprehensible speech and crossing the line. It is a big deal, partially because of the age of the participants. These aren't young kids we're discussing. It's not treated so blithely in my circles.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:14 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/18/stewart-palin-media-circus_n_785293.html


WATCH: Jon Stewart Takes On The Palin Family Media Circus


Link to Jon Stewarts video about WP and BP

These were his comments. I agree. This child needs to be left alone. She is a minor. Yes she is on a reality show, but this did not happen on the show so I'm not sure why we are even able to discuss it to be quite honest. She's 16!


Jon Stewart:
As for Willow Palin’s to-do about using gay slurs on her Facebook page, Stewart shrugged that off as well. “Stop making me feel sympathy for the Palins!” he barked at the media. “It’s a 16-year-old kid’s Facebook page! ‘Coming up next, 9-year-old Piper Palin’s headless Barbie: accident or Pediatric Rage Disorder?’”

“Kids are off-limits,” he stated firmly. “As a matter of fact, we should all go out of our way to treat her children with kid gloves and respect to show that we don’t judge individuals and mock them purely based on who their parents are. You know the rules should be ‘would they become the object of national mockery if their mother wasn’t Sarah Palin?”

Cubby
11-19-2010, 12:16 AM
Oh that's so Cubby.


TY, if I can fix my last sentence..... (I need the few to edit ;) )
which should read:
What happened to the good old days when our ideals weren't based on dumbing someone else down?

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:16 AM
I am worried about the internet and the web causing more problems for young people. It is almost like if a young person makes a mistake that is no longer handled by the parents without it becoming something that the world could know about. I remember running away from home (didn't get very far), making mistakes and being corrected by my parents. Now with Facebook, Myspace and the internet, it can become known to the world and if the child wasn't embarrassed enough by having being corrected by their parents, to have the world judging a lapse in judgment is really tough. I hope when I make my mistakes in life, which will continue, that it is not photographed, recorded or broadcast to the world...my mistakes are between me, who I made the mistake with or to, and God.

Great point. What kid doesn't make mistakes????

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 12:17 AM
Great point. What kid doesn't make mistakes????

Or adults...I make mistakes all the time, but pray about them and hopefully learn from them. I believe the song says "Life is a dance, you learn as you go."

JBean
11-19-2010, 12:19 AM
Watching the behavior of kids of politicians and royalty is nothing new.
Shoot, that's one reason I would never go into politics.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:20 AM
Not in those exact words but it has been suggested by some over and over that since it's "slang" and everyone is doing it, it shouldn't be causing the uproar that it is. I for one am pleased it has gotten such a big response, as it confirms that there are those out there who are attempting to evolve their thinking. 16 is about 4-5 years past the point where I would expect kids to have an understanding of what is reprehensible speech and crossing the line. It is a big deal, partially because of the age of the participants. These aren't young kids we're discussing. It's not treated so blithely in my circles.

http://www.ehow.com/about_6639037_moral-development-adolescents.html

Adolescents are in a kind of limbo between childhood and adulthood. In 2005, Dr. Ruben Gur, professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, wrote: "The evidence now is strong that the brain does not cease to mature until the early 20s." Adolescents are still in the process of gaining control over cognitive processes that shape any reasonable definition of morality, including "impulsivity, judgment, planning for the future [and] foresight of consequences." Adolescent moral development is not only a concern for parents and educators, but for the criminal justice system, scientists and therapists.
.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 12:20 AM
I agree, this child should be left alone. And I am sure her mother is making sure that FB page is going away and some tighter rules and good talk are happening as we type. This never should have happened.

The FB exchange, never should have happened. In the public eye, never should have happened, and I am pretty sure Mom is dealing with that as we speak.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 12:25 AM
mY problem is not with WP BP or any P. My problem is with this pervasive trend of teens in general and social networking, texting, etc. They all seem to have no filter, no jimminy cricket guiding their behavior when using these mediums.

It is as if these things encourage them to posture and be super funny (read biting) super tough (use of profanity) super sexy (sexting, inappropriate sexual content and inuendo in updates, text). etc etc. They see it as license to behave in ways they probably not behave talking face to face.

This really disturbs me and I think goes directly to the bullying outbreaks of recent years.

All of this is MOO.

Dark Knight
11-19-2010, 12:25 AM
Actually Dark Knight, they said much more than that. They called Bristol fat and talked about the show "nailin Palin" before WP said what she did. I'm not saying that makes it right, but they didn't just say they didn't like the show.
It was a heated exchange between 4 people. They all said things they shouldn't have. But lets not say that WP said those things just because the boy said he didn't like the show.

I thought Willow started right off the bat being overly defensive of the criticism, maybe I remembered it wrong. Or as the former Prez would say, "I misremembered it." :crazy:

tlcya
11-19-2010, 12:27 AM
IMO being called fat or being slurred in any way, does not give you the right to one up and sling a slur back. They ALL behaved badly.

and that is sad to me.

JBean
11-19-2010, 12:27 AM
what's the old adage about a tree falling and no one around to hear it?
If no one read it would it not be bad? of course it would and hopefully she is being corrected. This to me isn't about this child as much as it represents the desensitzation and excuses for the poor behavior of our youth today. no more no less.
If it raises awareness and stmulates conversation at a couple dinner tables to night,then it can be a good thing.
Famous kids really do have this burden to carry and it is unfair,but such is the life in the limelight.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:31 AM
I thought Willow started right off the bat being overly defensive of the criticism, maybe I remembered it wrong. Or as the former Prez would say, "I misremembered it." :crazy:

The one guy said the show was failing.
Then the Palin sisters said he was talking s***.
Then the boys started with the fat cracks and the "nailin palin" and teen preg talk.
Then WP used the slurs.



Like I said, they were all wrong. But she didn't just go on a rampage because the boy didn't like the show. Insults and slurs were being fired by all of them.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:33 AM
IMO being called fat or being slurred in any way, does not give you the right to one up and sling a slur back. They ALL behaved badly.

and that is sad to me.

I agree, but teens are not like you and me. When they feel insulted, they often fire back.

I think WP thought she was taking up for her Mother and Sister.

She used the wrong words.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 12:35 AM
I teach at the undergraduate level and many of my students are about 17. I find the suggestion that they are completely helpless slaves to their impulses rather insulting to young people, as many of them are blossoming and decent people.

At 16, someone can drive. At 18, 19, 21, they can vote and drink and go to war and get married and become parents... At what age are people expected to have a modicum of empathy and civility? If we lower the bar of expectations for increasingly high ages, what will we be left with? 30 year olds who don't know how to control themselves?

At 16 I knew perfectly well what an insult was, and I tried to conduct myself politely. Certainly by BP's age, I even further ahead on that.

I just don't get infantilizing young people instead of giving them enough respect to believe they can rise to high standards.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:37 AM
I teach at the undergraduate level and many of my students are about 17. I find the suggestion that they are completely helpless slaves to their impulses rather insulting to young people, as many of them are blossoming and decent people.

At 16, someone can drive. At 18, 19, 21, they can vote and drink and go to war and get married and become parents... At what age are people expected to have a modicum of empathy and civility? If we lower the bar of expectations for increasingly high ages, what will we be left with? 30 year olds who don't know how to control themselves?

At 16 I knew perfectly well what an insult was, and I tried to conduct myself politely. Certainly by BP's age, I even further ahead on that.

I just don't get infantilizing young people instead of giving them enough respect to believe they can rise to high standards.

So, the professors of psychology are wrong?

animlzrule
11-19-2010, 12:37 AM
I am worried about the internet and the web causing more problems for young people. It is almost like if a young person makes a mistake that is no longer handled by the parents without it becoming something that the world could know about. I remember running away from home (didn't get very far), making mistakes and being corrected by my parents. Now with Facebook, Myspace and the internet, it can become known to the world and if the child wasn't embarrassed enough by having being corrected by their parents, to have the world judging a lapse in judgment is really tough. I hope when I make my mistakes in life, which will continue, that it is not photographed, recorded or broadcast to the world...my mistakes are between me, who I made the mistake with or to, and God.

This is very true in today's times. That's why it's critical that parents are vigilant about what their kids are doing and how they are conducting themselves. Additionally, why parents need to make how we treat one another a very serious matter for discussion from a very early age. Parents aren't clued in nearly enough to the daily goings on of kids lives any more because technology is obscuring the traditional routes of communication and controls. So, it's the parents responsibility to take control back. Kids SHOULD NOT BE ON FACEBOOK if they can't be responsible with it. And surely, no kid should be able to set their status to private. There are very few private mistakes to be made in life anymore if you don't think before you act. These kids are old enough to be very aware of that.

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 12:38 AM
I teach at the undergraduate level and many of my students are about 17. I find the suggestion that they are completely helpless slaves to their impulses rather insulting to young people, as many of them are blossoming and decent people.

At 16, someone can drive. At 18, 19, 21, they can vote and drink and go to war and get married and become parents... At what age are people expected to have a modicum of empathy and civility? If we lower the bar of expectations for increasingly high ages, what will we be left with? 30 year olds who don't know how to control themselves?

At 16 I knew perfectly well what an insult was, and I tried to conduct myself politely. Certainly by BP's age, I even further ahead on that.

I just don't get infantilizing young people instead of giving them enough respect to believe they can rise to high standards.


I don't believe we should lower the bar, just that it shouldn't become a lesson in front of the nation, but at home. Being reprimanded by your parents is tough...being reprimanded by the nation is awful.

Dark Knight
11-19-2010, 12:39 AM
what's the old adage about a tree falling and no one around to hear it?
If no one read it would it not be bad? of course it would and hopefully she is being corrected. This to me isn't about this child as much as it represents the desensitzation and excuses for the poor behavior of our youth today. no more no less.
If it raises awareness and stmulates conversation at a couple dinner tables to night,then it can be a good thing.
Famous kids really do have this burden to carry and it is unfair,but such is the life in the limelight.

Oh trust me, I see this sort of back and forth all the time on Facebook among teens and even people in their early 20's, so this is nothing new. But they are public figures, so it gets attention, and having such a conservative mother adds to the interest in the kid's wild behavior, I think.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 12:41 AM
So, the professors of psychology are wrong?

There are likely just as many psychologists who claim people at this age are responsible for their behaviour, otherwise people wouldn't be tried as adults under any circumstances until they are 20 or above.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 12:41 AM
I agree, but teens are not like you and me. When they feel insulted, they often fire back.

I think WP thought she was taking up for her Mother and Sister.

She used the wrong words.

the youngest young lady is 16. Her sister is what? 18? Both of these girls are way past the age when they should have learned and understand the truth of that old schoolyard saying

sticks and stones (tired =typos abound)

Again, just me but they behaved badly, their mom I am sure is handling it. The sad fact is, the other teens, who don't live in teh public eye? Their parents probably have no idea what their kids were posting and still don't as their kids aren't in the public eye.

I find this also very sad.

daisy7
11-19-2010, 12:41 AM
I am well aware of the stuff the goes on on FB with teens.

I am slowly considering allowing my oldest son to have his own FB page. If I do allow him to do this, I will check it frequently and if he posted anything like this carp, his FB page would be gone and he'd be facing some serious restriction time.

Yeah, their Mom being who she is makes these posts even worse and more public, but I would be outraged to read posts like this from any teen. I'm not sure why anyone would try and justify the derogatory terms they posted on FB. It doesn't matter to me if these are slang words used by teens. They are still wrong!

I really have to wonder why their parents were not checking their posts and moderating them (especially for W), if needed.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 12:45 AM
I am betting this sort of thing won't be unmonitored any longer (for W) Eph.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:45 AM
Info from Harvard Medical School Study

http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/09/the-teen-brain.html

Research during the past 10 years, powered by technology such as functional magnetic resonance imaging, has revealed that young brains have both fast-growing synapses and sections that remain unconnected. This leaves teens easily influenced by their environment and more prone to impulsive behavior, even without the impact of souped-up hormones and any genetic or family predispositions.
***Much more at link

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 12:46 AM
Being influenced by is not the same thing as being unable to control oneself, I think.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:48 AM
the youngest young lady is 16. Her sister is what? 18? Both of these girls are way past the age when they should have learned and understand the truth of that old schoolyard saying

sticks and stones (tired =typos abound)

Again, just me but they behaved badly, their mom I am sure is handling it. The sad fact is, the other teens, who don't live in teh public eye? Their parents probably have no idea what their kids were posting and still don't as their kids aren't in the public eye.

I find this also very sad.

BBM - Not according to many medical studies.


http://www.ehow.com/about_6639037_moral-development-adolescents.html

Adolescents are in a kind of limbo between childhood and adulthood. In 2005, Dr. Ruben Gur, professor of psychology at the University of Pennsylvania, wrote: "The evidence now is strong that the brain does not cease to mature until the early 20s." Adolescents are still in the process of gaining control over cognitive processes that shape any reasonable definition of morality, including "impulsivity, judgment, planning for the future [and] foresight of consequences." Adolescent moral development is not only a concern for parents and educators, but for the criminal justice system, scientists and therapists.
.


Info from Harvard Medical School Study

http://harvardmagazine.com/2008/09/the-teen-brain.html

Research during the past 10 years, powered by technology such as functional magnetic resonance imaging, has revealed that young brains have both fast-growing synapses and sections that remain unconnected. This leaves teens easily influenced by their environment and more prone to impulsive behavior, even without the impact of souped-up hormones and any genetic or family predispositions.
***Much more at link

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 12:50 AM
Both of my children, 19 and 21, have Facebooks and I am their friend. When they post something that I deem inappropriate I call them on it. I have raised them knowing right from wrong, but wrong shouldn't mean forever. It's wrong and then it's done. Are y'all saying after 18 if you make a mistake that other people should judge you on it? When and if I go to heaven I hope that I am judged by God's grace and not by my mistakes.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:51 AM
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468

Teenage Brains Are Different

She learned that that it's not so much what teens are thinking — it's how.

Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."

But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really.

"It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?' " Jensen says. "It's not that they don't have a frontal lobe. And they can use it. But they're going to access it more slowly."

That's because the nerve cells that connect teenagers' frontal lobes with the rest of their brains are sluggish. Teenagers don't have as much of the fatty coating called myelin, or "white matter," that adults have in this area.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 12:53 AM
GO back to when you were 16 years old. Imagine you have done something immature, socially unacceptable, and cursed, all in a very public way. Would your mother or father or role model say,

"Well, [insert you here] IS just a kid and her connections haven't fully formed so she shouldn't be taken to task."

???

Cause that is NOT how my folks handled that sort of thing.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 12:57 AM
From Discovery Health

http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/nervous-system/teenage-brain1.htm

Teenage Brain Development

Wondering what happened to your little princess? Blame it on the brain.In adults, various parts of the brain work together to evaluate choices, make decisions and act accordingly in each situation. The teenage brain doesn't appear to work like this.

As such, the prefrontal cortex is a little immature in teenagers as compared to adults; it may not fully develop until your mid-20s.

So what does it mean to have an undeveloped prefrontal cortex in conjunction with a strong desire for reward? As it happens, this combination could explain a lot of stereotypical teenage behavior.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 12:59 AM
It seems to me that it is perfectly reasonable to agree that teens are still young adults and are on the road to full maturity - however, I see no way for them to develop that maturity without reasonable expectations and consequences. And I don't feel it is a great injustice to anyone over the age of 10 to expect them to know what an insult is.

None of us are suggesting these kids get the death penalty. Most of us are discussing if this was a problematic use of these terms, and I believe they were.

My opinion, which I have the right to - just the same as everyone here, no matter who may shout the loudest.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:01 AM
GO back to when you were 16 years old. Imagine you have done something immature, socially unacceptable, and cursed in a very public way. Would your mother or father or role model say,

"Well, [insert you here] IS just a kid and her connections haven't fully formed so she shouldn't be taken to task."

?

I didn't do the studies, I just linked them. I don't really care what people say about teen brains except the experts.

My child's softball coach told me something one time about the prefrontal cortex and I have to admit, I was like HUH???? We were talking about some drama going on with the schools softball team. Now these are 13-14 year olds and I was appauled at some of the things that were being said.
Well, this coach majored in :crazy: what ever you major in to know about the prefrontal cortex :smile: and told me it is perfectly normal for teens to act that way.

I mean all you can do is tell them they screwed up. You can't burn them at the stake. And they will MOST LIKELY mess up again. It's the nature of the "teenage" beast.

Dark Knight
11-19-2010, 01:03 AM
the youngest young lady is 16. Her sister is what? 18? Both of these girls are way past the age when they should have learned and understand the truth of that old schoolyard saying

sticks and stones (tired =typos abound)

Again, just me but they behaved badly, their mom I am sure is handling it. The sad fact is, the other teens, who don't live in teh public eye? Their parents probably have no idea what their kids were posting and still don't as their kids aren't in the public eye.

I find this also very sad.


I am well aware of the stuff the goes on on FB with teens.

I am slowly considering allowing my oldest son to have his own FB page. If I do allow him to do this, I will check it frequently and if he posted anything like this carp, his FB page would be gone and he'd be facing some serious restriction time.

Yeah, their Mom being who she is makes these posts even worse and more public, but I would be outraged to read posts like this from any teen. I'm not sure why anyone would try and justify the derogatory terms they posted on FB. It doesn't matter to me if these are slang words used by teens. They are still wrong!

I really have to wonder why their parents were not checking their posts and moderating them (especially for W), if needed.

Parents are woefully out of touch with how their teens act and talk to each other. They way your kid talks on FB is the way they talk in real life. Maybe worse in real life, actually. It's not a worse "offense" because it's on FB except a larger audience might read it, depending on their privacy settings. How they talk is how they talk, regardless of the forum.

So many parents think their kids don't act or talk a certain way, and glare at someone who swears in front of their child, when in reality that child has heard FAR worse at school, already, and PROBABLY says it. But they have certainly heard it all, before. And at a fairly young age compared to you.

I've got news for the parents of the world, your child is not usually the angel they pretend to be when you are around, lol. And if they don't act like an angel when you're around, they are 10x worse when you aren't. Kids are exposed to this stuff all the time, you cannot shelter them from it, you can only hope to give them good judgment skills to deal with it.

animlzrule
11-19-2010, 01:05 AM
While being very aware of the current research and statistics regarding brain developement and function as it correlates to age, nothing will convince me that in today's society, with all of the publicity that hate speech, bullying, and teen suicides has been getting lately, these girls didn't know exactly the consequences of the words they were using, and the context in which it was going to be understood. The words were chosen for a reason, because they are hateful words. That the words were tossed off so cavalierly is so sad. It is indefensible and inexcusable for the age group we are discussing.

Dark Knight
11-19-2010, 01:05 AM
Both of my children, 19 and 21, have Facebooks and I am their friend. When they post something that I deem inappropriate I call them on it. I have raised them knowing right from wrong, but wrong shouldn't mean forever. It's wrong and then it's done. Are y'all saying after 18 if you make a mistake that other people should judge you on it? When and if I go to heaven I hope that I am judged by God's grace and not by my mistakes.

You call your 21 year old out on it still? lol! I bet they love that. :crazy:

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:06 AM
Am I posting too much and it's considered shouting the loudest?

I have tried to do research and link about it. I'm not just talking to talk. It is a scientific fact that a 16 year old child's brain is not fully developed. Not even a Palin's.

The point I'm trying to make is she should not be held in any higher standards than any other teen just because of who her Mom is. It has been said that she should "know better" because she is in the public eye. Well, that's just not how it works.

FWIW I have not seen anybody say anybody does not have the right to their opinion WAD.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 01:10 AM
Am I posting too much and it's considered shouting the loudest?

I have tried to do research and link about it. I'm not just talking to talk. It is a scientific fact that a 16 year old child's brain is not fully developed. Not even a Palin's.

The point I'm trying to make is she should not be held in any higher standards than any other teen just because of who her Mom is. It has been said that she should "know better" because she is in the public eye. Well, that's just not how it works.

FWIW I have not seen anybody say anybody does not have the right to their opinion WAD.

People don't just say "your opinion is invalid" though direct words.

I was merely stating that my opinion is as it is, may have no value to anyone who sees me as an just a non-expert in this matters (which is fine), and should be taken for what it's worth.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:11 AM
While being very aware of the current research and statistics regarding brain developement and function as it correlates to age, nothing will convince me that in today's society, with all of the publicity that hate speech, bullying, and teen suicides has been getting lately, these girls didn't know exactly the consequences of the words they were using, and the context in which it was going to be understood. The words were chosen for a reason, because they are hateful words. That the words were tossed off so cavalierly is so sad. It is indefensible and inexcusable for the age group we are discussing.

Oh I agree she knows what those words mean and she was useing them to be a little smart arse. She was trying to get back at another smartarse. But it's about impulse control. All teens have issues with that. That's why most of us think they are from another planet.

animlzrule
11-19-2010, 01:12 AM
You call your 21 year old out on it still? lol! I bet they love that. :crazy:

My sister monitors her 20 year old's facebook as much as she can as well, and he's away at college!!! Luckily he's a pretty responsible young man and is savvy about how he presents his business. We love to kid him about his page but actually it's proud evidence of the young man he's become. I'm not a fan of facebook but I admit I love to be able to get a glimpse of him now and then being a bit less guarded and it's interesting to see how others relate to him! I haven't asked him to friend me though, don't want to be an intrusive aunt.:angel:

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:14 AM
People don't just say "your opinion is invalid" though direct words.

I was merely stating that my opinion is as it is, may have no value to anyone who sees me as an just a non-expert in this matters (which is fine), and should be taken for what it's worth.

I can appreciate that. I see you made your last sentence more clear. It was the shout the loudest part that I didn't get.

Anyway, I never intended to imply your opinion was not valid. I just disagreed with it.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 01:14 AM
My sister monitors her 20 year old's facebook as much as she can as well, and he's away at college!!! Luckily he's a pretty responsible young man and is savvy about how he presents his business. We love to kid him about his page but actually it's proud evidence of the young man he's become. I'm not a fan of facebook but I admit I love to be able to get a glimpse of him now and then being a bit less guarded and it's interesting to see how others relate to him! I haven't asked him to friend me though, don't want to be an intrusive aunt.:angel:

Come on - who doesn't want to be FB friends with their aunt? :crazy:

(Maybe he's afraid to learn what type of things you get up to.)

JBean
11-19-2010, 01:20 AM
Am I posting too much and it's considered shouting the loudest?

I have tried to do research and link about it. I'm not just talking to talk. It is a scientific fact that a 16 year old child's brain is not fully developed. Not even a Palin's.

The point I'm trying to make is she should not be held in any higher standards than any other teen just because of who her Mom is. It has been said that she should "know better" because she is in the public eye. Well, that's just not how it works.

FWIW I have not seen anybody say anybody does not have the right to their opinion WAD.
It shouldn't be considered higher standards. it should be considered plain old standards and we have to teach them.
of course it is normal for kids to behave badly from time to time when they are still maturing. but it is equally as normal for adults to tell them it is wrong and guide them towards proper behavior. Making excuses for children does not help them, but rather it validates their behavior and it takes them longer to understand and modify.
With 5 boys I could have just blown off all their boyish behaviors growing up with "boys will be boys". While i agree boys will be boys and kids will be kids, that's where we grownups step in and say, it may be expected, but it's not ok so you're grounded LOL.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 01:24 AM
My point is I don't think I AM holding the particular girl or girls up to any higher standard than I do any teen of that age.

My point is, that I think you are right and that it is common behavior among teens. My point is that I am concerned by that fact.

I am writing of teens in general and not of these teen personally for some time, as you suggest we should not come at HER behavior specifically, and I kind of agreed with you there to. I am not the person who keeps bringing it back to the young lady in particular.

I am not trying to argue with anyone but rather figure out for my own self my thoughts about all this. I genuinely do see a connection between technology and a distrubing trend of lack of responsibility and good judgement and accountability for bad behavior.

I really do think throwing around derogatory slurs is wrong. Period. I really do think they ae old enough to know better. I have no links. I have simply my own life, my own childhood. By the time I was 12 13, I certainly knew well enough what was okay, what was not, what was cruel and what was not.

JBean
11-19-2010, 01:26 AM
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468

Teenage Brains Are Different

She learned that that it's not so much what teens are thinking — it's how.

Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that "a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it."

But it's not. To begin with, she says, a crucial part of the brain — the frontal lobes — are not fully connected. Really.

"It's the part of the brain that says: 'Is this a good idea? What is the consequence of this action?' " Jensen says. "It's not that they don't have a frontal lobe. And they can use it. But they're going to access it more slowly."

That's because the nerve cells that connect teenagers' frontal lobes with the rest of their brains are sluggish. Teenagers don't have as much of the fatty coating called myelin, or "white matter," that adults have in this area.

But they are capable of learning Kimberly! if we let this go or write it off as teen behavior it will turn into adult behavior. Otherwise teens wold just run wild while we all sat around waiting for them to turn 25 LOL.

Normal does not equal acceptable. Normal underdeveloped brains means undeveloped behavior that we need to shape.

animlzrule
11-19-2010, 01:29 AM
Come on - who doesn't want to be FB friends with their aunt? :crazy:

(Maybe he's afraid to learn what type of things you get up to.)

He very well could just now be able to make eye contact with me after realizing that I listen to Sirius radio Alt Nation (an alternative rock channel for those who aren't familiar)He's in a couple bands and I think it knocked him back a bit to think of his 40 year old aunt listening to a lot of the same music. I'm sure the music is no longer as "sick" (a good thing) as it used to be!

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 01:31 AM
He very well could just now be able to make eye contact with me after realizing that I listen to Sirius radio Alt Nation (an alternative rock channel for those who aren't familiar)He's in a couple bands and I think it knocked him back a bit to think of his 40 year old aunt listening to a lot of the same music. I'm sure the music is no longer as "sick" (a good thing) as it used to be!

Seeing your elders on FB can really rattle you - I know from whence I speak. Those, "Holy carp, is that auntie Em doing Jello shooters at Chippendale's?" moments are not fun at all.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:32 AM
It shouldn't be considered higher standards. it should be considered plain old standards and we have to teach them.
of course it is normal for kids to behave badly from time to time when they are still maturing. but it is equally as normal for adults to tell them it is wrong and guide them towards proper behavior. Making excuses for children does not help them, but rather it validates their behavior and it takes them longer to understand and modify.
With 5 boys I could have just blown off all their boyish behaviors growing up with "boys will be boys". While i agree boys will be boys and kids will be kids, that's where we grownups step in and say, it may be expected, but it's not ok so you're grounded LOL.

I've said what she did was wrong at least 20 times today. The words she used were poor choices for sure.
But, I do understand why she did it. Not that is was right. But, to a 16 year old whose Mother and Sister are being made fun of, the normal reaction is to strike back. And sadly, "that's gay" or "you're gay" is so commonly used, that's what popped into her head to say.

As a matter of fact, she said, "you're gay, I don't even know you"
So, she didn't even know the guy but choose those words. It's not like she could have known his personal sexual feelings to know if he was gay or not.

She used them to be mean, to strike back. It was WRONG.

But, my point is, what should we do???? Harp on her or let her parents handle it? I don't think TMZ should have even reported this. She's a minor. Having a discussion with another minor. His name was blacked out of the TMZ screen shots, but everybody knows who she is so it's ok to bash her.
Make his name public and lets bash on him for a while. I'm overweight and he offended me by using the word FAT. I bet overweight people get just as offended as gay people. My mom got preg when she was a teen and it offended me that he used that against BP. I bet teens who get preg and are then judged for it get just as offended as gay people.

It's only because she is SP's daughter. A celebrity's daughter.

She's a 16 year old child. She made a mistake. Give her a break.

Filly
11-19-2010, 01:32 AM
They all seem to have no filter, no jimminy cricket guiding their behavior when using these mediums.

They see it as license to behave in ways they probably not behave talking face to face.





By the time they do talk face to face it's already escelated. Probably 2,000 unfiltered words have passed between X number of kids and then it all goes bad.

I've been in the company of nephews and DD where they all have their face in a phone or iPods on or playing a video game. Nobody is talking in real time about real issues. All in the same room.

To be fair gentleman friend has a nephew. Ivy League graduate. Good kid. Well he's a young man. We're at a Phillie's game and half the time he's on that iPhone looking up baseball stats or whatever is current like in that second. He's well passed the age of fighting on Myspace, but again no face to face contact. Gentleman friend is infuriated as he won't even own a cell phone.

Whatever happened to "I offer you out? Meet in the school yard at 3:15?" Obviously the WP wouldn't even know the guy doing the posting in the first place if there was no social networking.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:33 AM
But they are capable of learning Kimberly! if we let this go or write it off as teen behavior it will turn into adult behavior. Otherwise teens wold just run wild while we all sat around waiting for them to turn 25 LOL.

Normal does not equal acceptable. Normal underdeveloped brains means undeveloped behavior that we need to shape.

Ok, so she made the mistake. Now it's time for her to learn from it. What more can we do to her? Really?

This child needs to be left to her family to teach her, not the court of public opinion at 16.

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 01:33 AM
Hope this isn't too long of a story.

A couple of years ago my daughter had an inappropriate rap song on her iPod that was played before a softball game. As soon as it started to play another mom ran to the announcer and had him turn it off. I was mortified and she started discussing it with another mom. I talked to my daughter about it after the game rather firmly. She had downloaded it several months prior and it never crossed her mind that it was still there, but she had downloaded it and didn't deny it. I didn't ask her to delete it and actually if she had have done it then, she could have loaded it back on later and I wouldn't have know. A month or so later I noticed that she had wiped her iPod and just loaded it with Christian songs and those songs where no longer on the computer. At the softball banquet the coach showed a video of the girls on a trip to a softball tournament on a weekend where none of the parents got to go. All of the girls rode a ride called the Slingshot which is basically a bungee for two people that get slung in the air. Well guess who let the same word in the song come screaming out of her mouth in the video...the girl whose mom was self-righteous. You couldn't hear the words, but there was no doubt was was said. She said it several times too. We were each given a video of the season and that was in it. I felt bad for the girl and mom and hope it will never be put on you tube. You should never say what your kids will or won't do. They will and hopefully they will learn from it.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 01:37 AM
Ok, so she made the mistake. Now it's time for her to learn from it. What more can we do to her? Really?

This child needs to be left to her family to teach her, not the court of public opinion at 16.

None of us have the power to do anything to her, and, seeing as how I barely know who she is, I wouldn't care to.

But why is it wrong to discuss these words and their meanings? I only got into this discussion because of the fact that they were being described as "common slang," and that is the point I (and many others here) were actually discussing. I haven't seen anyone describe what they'd like to do to these people in punishment.

In fact, most of us left the particular people out of this some time ago, I believe.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:38 AM
Seeing your elders on FB can really rattle you - I know from whence I speak. Those, "Holy carp, is that auntie Em doing Jello shooters at Chippendale's?" moments are not fun at all.

:floorlaugh: That's funny.

Filly
11-19-2010, 01:39 AM
Seeing your elders on FB can really rattle you - I know from whence I speak. Those, "Holy carp, is that auntie Em doing Jello shooters at Chippendale's?" moments are not fun at all.



:DThat's classic. Friends and family ask me why don't I have a FB? I tell them I'm an outlaw. No way do I need people linking me to any photograph past or present.

My brother calls it SPYspace and TRACEbook. I love when all the sudden the kids remove that wall thingie. Better yet when a friend posts pictures from when you were kids and you're well doing something you tell your own kids never to do!:eek:

JBean
11-19-2010, 01:39 AM
I've said what she did was wrong at least 20 times today. The words she used were poor choices for sure.
But, I do understand why she did it. Not that is was right. But, to a 16 year old whose Mother and Sister are being made fun of, the normal reaction is to strike back. And sadly, "that's gay" or "you're gay" is so commonly used, that's what popped into her head to say.

As a matter of fact, she said, "you're gay, I don't even know you"
So, she didn't even know the guy but choose those words. It's not like she could have known his personal sexual feelings to know if he was gay or not.

She used them to be mean, to strike back. It was WRONG.

But, my point is, what should we do???? Harp on her or let her parents handle it? I don't think TMZ should have even reported this. She's a minor. Having a discussion with another minor. His name was blacked out of the TMZ screen shots, but everybody knows who she is so it's ok to bash her.
Make his name public and lets bash on him for a while. I'm overweight and he offended me by using the word FAT. I bet overweight people get just as offended as gay people. My mom got preg when she was a teen and it offended me that he used that against BP. I bet teens who get preg and are then judged for it get just as offended as gay people.

It's only because she is SP's daughter. A celebrity's daughter.

She's a 16 year old child. She made a mistake. Give her a break.

Well, no one here is going to do anything to her LOL. We are just discussing the pros and cons of childish behavior and the ramifications of this being normalized or not by teens in the public eye. Look at the behavior of other famous teens and does it affect the current teens? You bet it does.
The reality is any of us that are discussing this are equally as guilty as the other for perpetuating the interest in this story.
That's what we do here so I am not exactly sure what we are doing wrong?
TMZ basically reports what people are talking about and here we are..talking about it ;)

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:42 AM
The Thread Title is Willow and Bristol Palin post homophobic slurs and profanity on FB.

WP is a minor. That's my biggest issue.

Even though her mother is a public figure, she is not fair game.
Just because WP is on the reality show, this thread is not about that show, it's about a discussion on FB by a minor.

I thought minors were to be protected.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:43 AM
God forbid it was any of our children being called out in the public arena at the age of 16 for a mistake they made.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 01:45 AM
The Thread Title is Willow and Bristol Palin post homophobic slurs and profanity on FB.

WP is a minor. That's my biggest issue.

Even though her mother is a public figure, she is not fair game.
Just because WP is on the reality show, this thread is not about that show, it's about a discussion on FB by a minor.

I thought minors were to be protected.


I would support changing the title of the thread, if that is what is decided.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 01:45 AM
and with that point I will totally agree Kimberly

I wish that weren't titled that way (Palin daughters would still be accurate and yet still respect the minor aspect.

But the topic of theis FB behavior has definately caught my attention and woken a passionate opinion (i'm sure you couldn't tell, lol)

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 01:47 AM
I don't think that discussing the topic in general is bad, but to have a thread calling out a kid for making a mistake seems harsh to me. There are Facebooks all over the world and I am sure that there are a lot of inappropriate quotes on most teenager's at some point and time. On a bad day, mine might have me whining about something that next week is insignificant :)

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:48 AM
Fair enough, but that seems like more of a matter to alert a mod on, rather than branding all of us as a mob wanting to beat on a kid.

I think suggesting that those of us who are here, caring about so many crimes against children, don't care about the rights of minors is fairly insulting, frankly, as I have seen most of the people here work quite hard in that direction.

I would support changing the title of the thread, if that is what is decided.

BBM
Oh my gosh WhyaDuck! When did I say ANYTHING LIKE that?
Please.

She is a minor. She should be protected.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:52 AM
You suggested we were over-zealous in our desire to punish her and then implied you cared about the rights of minors while the rest of us did not. Granted, my words were hyperbole, but I also don't think that is an accurate portrayal of most of the posters here, or the intent of most of the opinions on this thread.

I didn't imply anything. I gave my opinion that she should be protected as a minor. I NEVER implied anybody here did not care about minors. You are SOOOO putting words in my mouth that I NEVER said.

Hyperbole or not, that is VERY insulting to me. I NEVER said or implied those things.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 01:53 AM
BBM
Oh my gosh WhyaDuck! When did I say ANYTHING LIKE that?
Please.

She is a minor. She should be protected.

yeah, you did get kinda carried away, Kimberly, I saw the phrase burning at the stake being bandied about

I think everyone got a little hot and bothered and perhaps I will excuse myself from this one til tomorrow, give some dust time to settle.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:56 AM
You have said I have implied your opinion is invalid and I have implied people here do not care for children. Neither could be farther from the truth. I don't imply. I say it or don't.

Because I disagree with you I am implying???

IMO She made a mistake
IMO Everybody should give her a break
IMO She is a minor and should be protected, especially here at WS.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:57 AM
yeah, you did get kinda carried away, Kimberly, I saw the phrase burning at the stake being bandied about

I think everyone got a little hot and bothered and perhaps I will excuse myself from this one til tomorrow, give some dust time to settle.

OMG like I really think anybody wants to burn the girl on a stake.
It was a figure of speach. And I didn't say anybody here wanted to do it.

I SAID, what are we to do, burn her on a stake.

That is not saying anything about anyone here.

WhyaDuck?
11-19-2010, 01:57 AM
I didn't imply anything. I gave my opinion that she should be protected as a minor. I NEVER implied anybody here did not care about minors. You are SOOOO putting words in my mouth that I NEVER said.

Hyperbole or not, that is VERY insulting to me. I NEVER said or implied those things.

In the interest of fair play, then, I respectfully withdraw my comments and will consider this topic closed for me, as this is not a matter worth causing this much upset to anyone. It is certainly not worth it to me to be insulting, and I apologize.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:59 AM
I didn't do the studies, I just linked them. I don't really care what people say about teen brains except the experts.

My child's softball coach told me something one time about the prefrontal cortex and I have to admit, I was like HUH???? We were talking about some drama going on with the schools softball team. Now these are 13-14 year olds and I was appauled at some of the things that were being said.
Well, this coach majored in :crazy: what ever you major in to know about the prefrontal cortex :smile: and told me it is perfectly normal for teens to act that way.

I mean all you can do is tell them they screwed up. You can't burn them at the stake. And they will MOST LIKELY mess up again. It's the nature of the "teenage" beast.

BBM - To clear the air - this was not meant to IMPLY anyone here, at Websleuths, wants to burn a 16 year old minor at the stake.

tlcya
11-19-2010, 02:00 AM
g'night folks. I think I'm done beating this dead horse. I had hoped this thread would turn into a real discourse about young people and social networking but it was not to be.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 02:02 AM
Then maybe another thread can be started that has to do with that and not two specific girls of a political figure.

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 02:02 AM
You call your 21 year old out on it still? lol! I bet they love that. :crazy:

Yep...He wrote something to his girlfriend last week and I told him that it was something he should have told her in private. He rolled his eyes, but the thought was placed. Last night we sat on the coach and watched Glee together :)

Tonight one of the kids that I went to church at from when he was a little fellow put on his wall that he was "drunk". The only comment I put back was "designated driver". He lives in NY now and is a young adult learning...had to throw him a reminder in there lest he forget :)

JBean
11-19-2010, 02:14 AM
Come on be nice guys.

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 02:15 AM
Come on be nice guys.

Just some good debating...all's good :) I love my fellow Websleuthers!!!

JBean
11-19-2010, 02:18 AM
Just some good debating...all's good :) I love my fellow Websleuthers!!!
I am all about lively discussion. We all have to careful and respectful of each other though.
It's all good.

jandkmom
11-19-2010, 02:21 AM
I am all about lively discussion. We all have to careful and respectful of each other though.
It's all good.

I saw no name calling or fists flying...maybe some rolling eyes, but not much more :)

Are you going to give me the rules again...I used to get those in the basement :)...no talking about JBean...etc...

Harley
11-19-2010, 07:14 AM
It is ridiculous to me that this is even newsworthy.

believe09
11-19-2010, 10:02 AM
Somehow this became all about a 16 year old who should have known better IMO, even if for no other reason than she is in the public eye-what about the adult in this equation, Bristol?

Can we at least accord her some maturity given that she is a mother and has put herself out there into the world not simply because of her mother but on her own...multiple media interviews in People, US Magazine, DWTS etc.

So, Bristol uses homophobic slurs but she is going to have a much harder time defending her use unless someone comes up with a reason why HER brain should not be considered mature.

If it were Lindsey Lohan, we would be talking about this. If it were Sean Penn, we would be talking about this. We certainly could comfortably discuss Miley Cyrus who has been in the public eye since birth and likes the controversy she causes....I think that the "rules" regarding minors do not necessarily apply here the same as they would some joe off the street. JMVHO. Rules are fluid for a reason on this board. Being inflexible would not work here. Again JMVHO.

Sarah Palin put her girls out into the world to be scrutinized by the media. As did John and Kate. So here we are discussing them when they behave badly.

And they behaved badly-we all seem to agree on that one. :)

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 11:26 AM
Somehow this became all about a 16 year old who should have known better IMO, even if for no other reason than she is in the public eye-what about the adult in this equation, Bristol?

Can we at least accord her some maturity given that she is a mother and has put herself out there into the world not simply because of her mother but on her own...multiple media interviews in People, US Magazine, DWTS etc.

So, Bristol uses homophobic slurs but she is going to have a much harder time defending her use unless someone comes up with a reason why HER brain should not be considered mature.

If it were Lindsey Lohan, we would be talking about this. If it were Sean Penn, we would be talking about this. We certainly could comfortably discuss Miley Cyrus who has been in the public eye since birth and likes the controversy she causes....I think that the "rules" regarding minors do not necessarily apply here the same as they would some joe off the street. JMVHO. Rules are fluid for a reason on this board. Being inflexible would not work here. Again JMVHO.

Sarah Palin put her girls out into the world to be scrutinized by the media. As did John and Kate. So here we are discussing them when they behave badly.

And they behaved badly-we all seem to agree on that one. :)


Lindsey Lohan, Sean Penn, and Miley Cyrus are stars. They chose that life for themselves. Bristol has put herself out there and is fair game IMO.
But, WP is not a star. She is the teenage daughter of a political figure. If this were a conversation about "Sarah Palin's Alaska" and we were discussing WP's attitude on the show or whatever, to me, that would be different. Because her mother allows her to be on the show. So, she must know that people are going to talk about it (the show).
But, this was a conversation on FB. It has nothing to do with Sarah or the show. It was a minor (who is not a star) talking to another minor. The guys name was blacked out. Why? Because he is a minor????

hoppyfrog
11-19-2010, 12:59 PM
Sarah Palin put her girls out into the world to be scrutinized by the media. As did John and Kate. So here we are discussing them when they behave badly.

And they behaved badly-we all seem to agree on that one. :)

Exactly.

SP put her kids out into the public spotlight. If she didn't want them scrutinized, she shouldn't have done that.

Were I ever to run for public office, my family would be nowhere to be seen. Ever. Not because I am embarrassed for them to be seen in public. In fact, they are fantastic. But because I would never use them as props for me running for office. If I did that, they would be fair game, just as SP's kids are.

And, FWIW, if my kids make a mistake in public--whether it's on FB or mouthing off in the gorcery store--they should fully expect to be corrected in public, on the spot.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 01:49 PM
By the whole country?
That's a bit much for anybody to handle.

believe09
11-19-2010, 04:03 PM
Miley Cyrus is 17, right? She made her choices. Willow is 16-she has made her choices right out in public for the world to see. Lindsey Lohan was a child in the public eye long before she was an adult in the public eye. Ditto John and Kate's brood, 3 of whom were just expelled from their school. Bristol Palin's apology was quite humerous; she shamelessly included a plug for DWTS?

Tsk Tsk. People have always looked to the parenting when high profile kids make bad choices. This is no exception. And so it goes.

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 04:19 PM
The fact that 6 year olds' school troubles are exploited kinda makes my point.

Very shameful. When is enough enough?

cluciano63
11-19-2010, 04:23 PM
The family is not exactly media-shy. I'm revolted by all of them, but that's just me.

Carrington
11-19-2010, 06:18 PM
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/willow_palin_pregnancy_shocker_sarah/celebrity/69687

Two scandals in one week......
Willow is growing up fast.

IMO

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 06:25 PM
National Enquirer???? Really????
Was the baby daddy an alien? A green one?

j.r.k.
11-19-2010, 10:06 PM
National Enquirer???? Really????
Was the baby daddy an alien? A green one?

They had the Jon Edwards affair right :dance:

Kimberlyd125
11-19-2010, 10:22 PM
And lets not forget, Elvis lives in my basement. Shhh don't tell anybody. I want to sell the story to the enquirer Monday.

cluciano63
11-20-2010, 12:17 AM
16 is old enough to take responsibility for your actions...
Or at least to be held responsible...we see the courts doing it more and more as teens make the news in horrible ways more and more often.
If she singled out a person and either outed him or called him names, that is cyber bullying, IMO.

Kimberlyd125
11-20-2010, 12:47 AM
16 is old enough to take responsibility for your actions...
Or at least to be held responsible...we see the courts doing it more and more as teens make the news in horrible ways more and more often.
If she singled out a person and either outed him or called him names, that is cyber bullying, IMO.

Did you read it? She was not cyber bullying!
It was a FB war between several people who were trading insults back and forth. The guy she said "you're so gay, I don't even know you" to had already called Bristol fat and joked about her teen preg. Also said he loved the show "nailin Palin".
The N word was thrown around (not by the Palins) and a whole lot of other stuff.

If you have not read it, you should in order to understand what went on. She didn't out him.

I think you can find the screen shots at www.tmz.com

cluciano63
11-20-2010, 01:43 AM
No I did not read it, that is why I wrote "if she singled someone out, etc..."

My only point is 16 is old enough to drive a car, it is old enough to be charged with crimes, etc...so it is old enough, if you put yourself out there, to deal with reprecussions, that's all.

tlcya
11-20-2010, 02:27 AM
Okay, I am in agreement with Kimberly on this issue. WP is a minor and I do not believe is old enough to "choose" to be a public figure. Her family's various claims to fame do that.

I can debate this if it is not all about going after WP but rather about bad behavior of a sixteen year old who, IMO, like many sixteeen year olds, should know better.

I am not going to attack this young lady but will criticise the behavior IFKWIM.

and this is completely not snark so please do not take it as such, but - is the National Enquirer considered MSM source? I have never seen it linked and quoted here. tia