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View Full Version : Kobe Bryant case dropped ~ POLL - how do you feel?



Casshew
09-01-2004, 08:11 PM
Cast your vote

Casshew
09-01-2004, 08:39 PM
Sorry for the grammar in the post choices ~ I can't edit LOL

The Criminal Case is dropped... but a civil suit will proceed...

deputylinda
09-01-2004, 08:45 PM
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$i'll bet the civil suit is settled out of court mysteriously.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Casshew
09-01-2004, 09:39 PM
I think you are short a few dollar signs there Dep :D

deputylinda
09-02-2004, 12:19 AM
I think you are short a few dollar signs there Dep :D
didn't want to take up too much bandwidth... :innocent:

cmadwolf
09-02-2004, 09:38 AM
She's only asking for $75000. You can bet your biffy that $75000 would not be near enough to keep me happy if I had been raped.

Then again, if I had been raped you wouldn't find other DNA in my underwear, I wouldn't refuse to testify and I wouldn't drop the case.

peggy
09-02-2004, 11:00 AM
Just heard Dan Abrams and Roy Black on Today program discussing this - issue of apology statement came up - Black said what really happened, iho, was that agreement, in works for some time between defense attorneys and accuser's civil attorneys, Wood, was finally reached and money would soon be transferred to her account, didn't speculate on amount, because no way would Kobe's statement have been issued (why say nice things now about accuser) if there was any thought of a civil trial going to be pursued -- Abrams disagreed, saying no settlement has been reached and won't be until civil trial gets under way - I tend to agree with Black. Also, imo, amount will be lots more than $75K, especially if she signed a disclaimer about ever reporting the rumored lurid sex story.

Jeana (DP)
09-02-2004, 11:18 AM
She's only asking for $75000. You can bet your biffy that $75000 would not be near enough to keep me happy if I had been raped.

Then again, if I had been raped you wouldn't find other DNA in my underwear, I wouldn't refuse to testify and I wouldn't drop the case.



If I had been raped, I wouldn't want money, I'd want the son of a ***** locked up. This "victim" has been taking the cash from the beginning. Its obvious what her motives were in all of this.

SoloFlyer
09-02-2004, 11:27 AM
Just another example of financial justice! Kobe has money and bought his way out. When asked how he knew she wanted to have sex he said "I saw it in her eyes"!!!!! That is an admission of rape in my book and he just got away with it by throwing money around and having an incredibly biased judge did not help justice prevail.

PS Kobe does not have enough money to have sex with me.

princessmer81
09-02-2004, 12:55 PM
Kobe did not buy his way out. He did not give any money to the "victim." The "victim" is the one who decided that she did not want to proceed with the case.

I highly doubt that Kobe would have been convicted had the case been tried - especially since they we going to bring in the evidence showing that she had sex with someone else within a day of the alleged rape. What rape victim has sex less than 24 hours after being raped?

The real victims here are actual rape victims who will be less likely to be taken seriously now when they report that they have been raped - especially by a celebrity.


I forgot to add that this is all just my opinion based on what I know about the case at this time.

VespaElf
09-02-2004, 01:00 PM
She's only asking for $75000. You can bet your biffy that $75000 would not be near enough to keep me happy if I had been raped.

Then again, if I had been raped you wouldn't find other DNA in my underwear, I wouldn't refuse to testify and I wouldn't drop the case.




:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its quite obvious now what the AV is/was up to and since in civ. court things that wouldnt be admissable in crim. court ARE shes in for it!!


I hope she doesnt get a dime but thats moo!!!!!!

SoloFlyer
09-02-2004, 01:30 PM
Don't believe everything the defense team spins in the media. The rumor of sex with someone else is still only a rumor instigated and spread by the KST. How did she know he would have sex with her? How could she know he would injure her?
Why did he apologize? There is ONLY one reason!

No Kobe did not pay her but he spent several million to destroy her life and insure that she would drop the charges. I wonder how much he paid the judge to release her name "accidently", not ONCE, not TWICE but THREE times.

I believe that those that feel she set him up in some way and was only after his money are projecting what their intentions might have been.

Why did Kobe decide to apologize and settle minutes AFTER his statement "I saw it in her eyes that she wanted me" was released in the media?

I hope she owns Kobe when this is over. And Pamela Mackey is the most disgusting excuse for a human being on this earth. She deserves to be married to Scott Peterson. They are both very sick individuals.

MISSWASABI
09-02-2004, 02:30 PM
She's backing up the Brink's truck as we speak...

MW

Doyle
09-02-2004, 02:57 PM
I agree with soloflyer..

if the alleged victim was goldbricking, I believe the prosecutor would have had an idea about that and not decided to prosecute.

It would be very interesting if we all knew the facts of the case instead of rumors etc..

Just from what I see happened to the Lakers basketball team, shows me how self centered Kobe Bryant is.

Whatever the case, I hope no one else's daughter is in the same situation with a celebrity. Pamela Mackey et all play a very mean game of hardball, that most of us could not stay in the game with.

justice?

Casshew
09-02-2004, 03:21 PM
Has anyone been watching Court TV closing arguments today?

Whoa!.. Nancy grace... eyes flashing, lips smacking ~ she is totally peeved that the case against Kobe is dropped for the almighty buck!!

A sad day for Lady Justice she says...

princessmer81
09-02-2004, 04:56 PM
Kobe was required by the prosecution/"vicitm" to give an apology in order for them to drop the case. That apology was not an admission or indication of guilt.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I have not heard anything that leads me to believe that Kobe was guilty of raping this girl.

I am sorry but it is very naive to think that the prosecution would not have prosecuted the case if they thought that the girl wasn't telling the truth.

Txswthrt5
09-02-2004, 04:59 PM
I agree Princess - I dont understand those who still swear she was raped. There is NOTHING in the world that would stop me from bringing a rape case against those who violated me, if I had been raped. NOTHING! I believe fully that she was in this for the money. I also believe that fallicious cases such as these make actual rape victims weary of coming forward. If I were Mr Bryant, I would now sue this lady for slander.

SoloFlyer
09-02-2004, 07:04 PM
You presume the defendent is innocent but the victim is guilty? There is something wrong with that type of thinking, so I shall wish you good luck and God forbid a man with some money sees it in your eyes that you want rough sex while he holds you by the neck. If that wasn't fun wait until you attempt to press charges and his attornies find weasels that will swear to anything for the allmighty greenback and your life is destroyed. A judge that throws out rape shield laws and openly adores the defendant, a rape counselor that tried to sell her therapy session notes and people that do not know her accusing her of everything from a troublemaker to a moneyhungry slut tends to make people leery of seeking justice.

You could give the victim the same respect you give the defendant. He apologized because he was wrong. Read the confession, he states that he KNOWS she did not think it was consentual. That is rape! No ifs, ands or buts!

princessmer81
09-02-2004, 08:30 PM
Soloflyer -

Could you please refer me to the confession. I have not seen it.

I did not say that the girl is guily - I said that in the US a person is innocent until proven guilty.

The medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden, said that the bruising and minor lacerations could have come from consensual sex - There is no evidence of rough sex.

I have no sympathy for Kobe. He messed around on his wife and frankly I think he would have continued to had none of this happened (who knows, maybe he still does). I just don't think that there has been enough evidence presented to prove that he is guilty. Given the facts: she has accepted $20,000 - way more than the typical vicitm collects from victims rights organizations, she refuses to testify, she had other DNA on her besides Kobe's and they dismissed the case I don't see how you can assume that she really was raped.

I agree that the way the judge behaved was inexcusable.
This is all just my opion. I enjoy debating but I don't intend to offend or hurt anyone's feelings.

Wait - by "confession" do you mean the apology? This is what he said: "Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did."
He said that now he realizes that she did not view it as consensual. He did not say that at the time they had sex he thought that it was not consensual.

She may have went along with it at the time but in her head she didn't want to - if he is not a mind reader and she didn't say "No" or act uncomfortable or anything then how would he know at that time that she did not want to have sex?
The prosecution required this apology as part of having the case dismissed - I am sure there were requirements for what he had to say - the prosecution may have even written the apology.

shdbepaintin
09-02-2004, 08:47 PM
I voted "other" cause I am not sure how I feel. I go back and forth. I don't know if it is all about money or not. I agree no matter what this hurts rape victims, period. Even if Kobe is innocent or guilty, the victims decisions have hurt rape victims, in my opinion.
And at the risk of being blasted, I think the girl was very irresponsible to go to his room after work. I am not saying she ask for it, I don't mean that. Just that by doing so she may have given someone the idea that she wouldn't say no. But no matter what Kobe was/is married. He was wrong even if it was consensual.
See I am confused, can't you tell?

Aghast
09-03-2004, 12:40 AM
SoloFlyer, You have hit the nail on the head. Defense spin! Ruin this girl and she'll run away, out lawyer her, release all damning info, send her packing. Interesting, She didn't back down after the first time so they did it again, dang, she's here like glue, OK release more. Shoot judge she's still here. OK To He** with the rape shield law that outta do it. Ah at last after 2 guys in jail and her entire history out to the public, and every nasty rumour is now repeated as if truth, dear sweet kobe has been freed from this unfortunate misunderstanding. BA HA HA HA HA
Shaq. - moved to the other side of the country
coach - quit
Fox - gone you go Kobe your friends are just lining up to support you. lol

you can fool some of the people some of the time.......

Lacyanna
09-03-2004, 12:58 PM
I voted other. Here is why.


I actually don't think he raped that woman-therefore he cannot be charged for rape.

However-I think he earned the nightmare (close call) he just went through. NONE of it would have happened to him if he wasn't a self centered thoughtless pig. :angel:

Sally
09-03-2004, 02:54 PM
You presume the defendent is innocent but the victim is guilty? There is something wrong with that type of thinking, so I shall wish you good luck and God forbid a man with some money sees it in your eyes that you want rough sex while he holds you by the neck. If that wasn't fun wait until you attempt to press charges and his attornies find weasels that will swear to anything for the allmighty greenback and your life is destroyed. A judge that throws out rape shield laws and openly adores the defendant, a rape counselor that tried to sell her therapy session notes and people that do not know her accusing her of everything from a troublemaker to a moneyhungry slut tends to make people leery of seeking justice.

Precisely.

BirdieBoo
09-04-2004, 04:38 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
You presume the defendent is innocent but the victim is guilty? There is something wrong with that type of thinking, so I shall wish you good luck and God forbid a man with some money sees it in your eyes that you want rough sex while he holds you by the neck. If that wasn't fun wait until you attempt to press charges and his attornies find weasels that will swear to anything for the allmighty greenback and your life is destroyed. A judge that throws out rape shield laws and openly adores the defendant, a rape counselor that tried to sell her therapy session notes and people that do not know her accusing her of everything from a troublemaker to a moneyhungry slut tends to make people leery of seeking justice.

You could give the victim the same respect you give the defendant. He apologized because he was wrong. Read the confession, he states that he KNOWS she did not think it was consentual. That is rape! No ifs, ands or buts! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Well said!!!!

Besides all this other hell she has been through, I believe her life has actually been threatened as well.

AuntieKaren
09-04-2004, 06:31 AM
...that you want rough sex while he holds you by the neck.

No one knows for sure that this really happened. It's a word vs word case and no one will ever know for sure what exactly happened that night and if it was truly rape.
Karen

BirdieBoo
09-04-2004, 12:40 PM
No one knows for sure that this really happened. It's a word vs word case and no one will ever know for sure what exactly happened that night and if it was truly rape.
KarenYou're right about that. No one truly knows what happened that night except the 2 people who were there. Both of them are in agreement that the woman didn't think the sex was consensual. If you think that the US justice system dispenses a lot of justice for rape victims, especially rape victims where the [alleged] perpetrator is wealthy and powerful; you should really think about that some more.

lisafremont
09-05-2004, 12:50 PM
Her blood was on his shirt.
He initially lied about having sex with her. Made inconsistent statements.
His attorney outrageously kept using the accuser's name in court despite being warned not to. And was never sanctioned for this.
The court's decisions unfairly favored the defendant, IMO. Also the "mistakes" of putting out the stuff they did on the internet so clearly signalled to the accuser that there was no way she could get a fair hearing in this court.
The defendant was advantaged by his deep pockets and he cleverly hired a very aggressive female attorney to do his dirty work for him.

In my opinion the accuser was revictimized by this whole sham of a process.

And the sad fact is that by withdrawing from the criminal case, she can never get her good name back. She will always be seen by many as a "golddigger" and a "slut" who fabricated this story to extort money from this poor pitiful basketball player.

JMO

lisafremont
09-05-2004, 02:23 PM
There's also the matter of his apology which amounts to a confession in my mind.

But, hey, read what Jeanine Pirro, Westchester Co. DA has to say in today's NY Post:

http://www.nypost.com/commentary/29906.htm

peggy
09-05-2004, 03:17 PM
Here's another interesting opinion article by local sports writer:

Because the girl in Colorado likely said no, at some point in their brief encounter, and he didn't listen, and he got away with it. We really don't know what happened in that hotel room, of course, but it's safe to say the decision to drop the case had more to do with what happened after that night than the night itself.

"People don't understand my vision," Kobe said back in 2000, one of the first occasions anyone got a glimpse of the Kobe to come. "and I don't care if they agree or not."

The clues for trouble were there if we had looked, but we were all too busy basking in his ability.

Bryant Unlikely to Change (http://www.presstelegram.com/Stories/0,1413,204~23174~2381187,00.html)

LinasK
09-08-2004, 02:21 AM
You presume the defendent is innocent but the victim is guilty? There is something wrong with that type of thinking, so I shall wish you good luck and God forbid a man with some money sees it in your eyes that you want rough sex while he holds you by the neck.


Solo, I sure hope you aren't female, that you could wish this one anyone! I have been a molestation victim, and in my opinion, this "victim" sure didn't act like one after the fact! I can tell you that after being molested, hours afterward, sex with ANYONE else was the last thing on my mind! You feel violated, and yes, your motivation is justice/revenge NOT money!!!
Furthermore, I think she used bad judgement in entering his hotel room, or not leaving when things started heating up.

BirdieBoo
09-08-2004, 03:23 AM
Solo, I sure hope you aren't female, that you could wish this one anyone! I have been a molestation victim, and in my opinion, this "victim" sure didn't act like one after the fact! I can tell you that after being molested, hours afterward, sex with ANYONE else was the last thing on my mind! You feel violated, and yes, your motivation is justice/revenge NOT money!!!
Furthermore, I think she used bad judgement in entering his hotel room, or not leaving when things started heating up.Did anyone tell you you didn't act like a molestation victim after the fact? Was your molestation portrayed in the media before the entire nation with a sympathetic slant towards your molester? Did people judge you for not getting away from your molester when "things started heating up"? Were you portrayed in the media as someone who seduced your molester with the idea of getting money? I think not. My mind was not made up about this case until Kobe Bryant came forth with his "apology" [imo confession], in which he states that he knows the victim did not consider this consensual sex. That, to me, is a confession of rape by a priveleged wealthy male who should have known better and is admitting such.

princessmer81
09-10-2004, 01:15 PM
[QUOTE=SoloFlyer]You presume the defendent is innocent but the victim is guilty? There is something wrong with that type of thinking, so I shall wish you good luck and God forbid a man with some money sees it in your eyes that you want rough sex while he holds you by the neck.

SoloFlyer -
I consider that a personal attack. This forum is to discuss our opinions about the case - it's not personal. Only Kobe, the girl, and God truely know what happened. We are all just speculating based on what we have heard about the incident. That fact that you wish something so horrific on someone simply because they disagree with your opinion really makes me wonder what kind of person you are.

Seeker
09-10-2004, 03:18 PM
Her blood was on his shirt.
He initially lied about having sex with her. Made inconsistent statements. I haven't seen anything about that, where can I find that info? The "inconsistant statements" that Kobe supposedly made part. The only thing I have found is that he initially denied having sex with her. In the judge's order for trial, he wrote, "there were inconsistent statements by the alleged victim." Here http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/courtdocs.htm you can see the actual court docs and schedules up to 9/2/2004 on this case.



His attorney outrageously kept using the accuser's name in court despite being warned not to. And was never sanctioned for this. Actually it was the prosecution who kept using her name, not Kobe's attorney.


The court's decisions unfairly favored the defendant, IMO. Also the "mistakes" of putting out the stuff they did on the internet so clearly signalled to the accuser that there was no way she could get a fair hearing in this court.
The defendant was advantaged by his deep pockets and he cleverly hired a very aggressive female attorney to do his dirty work for him.

In my opinion the accuser was revictimized by this whole sham of a process.

And the sad fact is that by withdrawing from the criminal case, she can never get her good name back. She will always be seen by many as a "golddigger" and a "slut" who fabricated this story to extort money from this poor pitiful basketball player.

JMO

But if you actually read everything it's quite possible she did do this (make a false claim) to get money.
This same accuser was reportedly at a bar shortly after her encounter with Kobe, partying and giggling and telling her friends about the size of Kobe's member etc. She also reportedly had sex with another man who's semen was found on and in her body.
Since she's no longer involved in a criminal case and has retained 2 private high profile, high paid civil attorney's (who can afford to do that?) to seek an unspecified sum of MONEY from her alledged attacker in a civil case I question whether or not she really wasn't out for celebrity or money all along.

I have doubts about her honesty after reading all the facts...her going to Kobe's room in the late hours after she clocked out (I wonder what the hotel's employee policy is on employees visiting guests rooms), her willingly (allegedly) showing him her tattoo on her butt and showing her thong while doing so, her admission that they consensually fooled around, her refusal to take a polygraph, no rape exam before the DA filed charges, her history of mental instability, her actions immediately after the alleged attack (the party she attended at the bar), her statement to the DA that she didn't even know who Kobe was, yet she was excited he was going to be staying at the hotel and was planning to get his autograph for a friend (which proves she lied to the DA and did know who he was all along!)....
One of her civil attorney's is Lin Wood. He only goes after defendants who have very, very deep pockets...

IMO the DA's office spun getting out of this case. It was because the accuser wasn't able to go forward, yet the case wasn't filed as "accuser vs Kobe Bryant" it was the State of CO VS Kobe Bryant (if the case against Bryant was so strong and the evidence so overwhelming did they even need her to actually testify?)... she won't be able to claim "stress" as a way of getting out of a civil trial...it remains to be seen if there is a settlement in that case or not.

Nobody knows if she ever actually said "stop" or "no" to Kobe, it's just her word against his. The DNA evidence (some of her blood on his shirt, but we don't know how much) for the prosecutions case could be from a number of things (not excluding rape here), but doesn't prove he actually raped her.

So yeah, I still have doubts about whether or not she was actually raped or not. So do the people who were there immediately afterwards and friends of hers. Raped women do not go out and immediately have sex again, nor do they party and giggle about the size of the guy's dong who "raped" them.
It just doen't seem like the case was legitimate to me.

Did he rape her? I wasn't there so I don't know but her actions belie her claims IMO.

Seeker
09-10-2004, 03:30 PM
Did anyone tell you you didn't act like a molestation victim after the fact? Was your molestation portrayed in the media before the entire nation with a sympathetic slant towards your molester? Did people judge you for not getting away from your molester when "things started heating up"? Were you portrayed in the media as someone who seduced your molester with the idea of getting money? I think not. My mind was not made up about this case until Kobe Bryant came forth with his "apology" [imo confession], in which he states that he knows the victim did not consider this consensual sex. That, to me, is a confession of rape by a priveleged wealthy male who should have known better and is admitting such.

Birdie, did you read the apology and notice the key words in it?


Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.

As for your other questions did you really think that partying and giggling about the size of your rapists member right after the alleged attack was normal?
Did you review all the facts of the case and read all the docs, or did you just go on the apology?

I don't care if this guy was rich, or poor, black or white, ugly or not, the facts of her behavior and statements after the alleged attack bother the heck out of me....

peggy
09-10-2004, 06:55 PM
Read that district judge has temporary order to seal Bryant's interview at request of defense, since it would cause harm to his image -- good grief, what about all the leaking of victim (yes, I choose to use that word now) information, all over the internet before trial. Maybe there will be some justice in civil case, if it ever occurs. Kobe hasn't been proved innocent as his well paid attorneys claim - doubts linger, so sure he would welcome a trial to prove his innocence and restore any doubts about his glowing image. So, unseal those records!

BirdieBoo
09-11-2004, 02:24 AM
Birdie, did you read the apology and notice the key words in it?



As for your other questions did you really think that partying and giggling about the size of your rapists member right after the alleged attack was normal?
Did you review all the facts of the case and read all the docs, or did you just go on the apology?

I don't care if this guy was rich, or poor, black or white, ugly or not, the facts of her behavior and statements after the alleged attack bother the heck out of me....Seeker, yes. I did read the apology. Like I stated in my earlier post, it sealed my opinion that he did it. Like I said earlier, the only 2 that REALLY know what happened in the room that night were Kobe and the girl. Why would he apologize if he had done nothing wrong? Perhaps to smooth things over with the girl, so they could laugh about it later? I think not.

As for your other questions did you really think that partying and giggling about the size of your rapists member right after the alleged attack was normal?
I did not hear about this do you have a source? because your post says this is REPORTEDLY what happened.

The fact that HE lied about it from the get-go bothers me also. I think he did it. That's my opinion and I think the victim was totally dragged through the mud, for gosh sakes she received death threats over this. That in itself is unjustifiable whether she was telling the truth or not. Death threats have nothing to do with the US justice system, when it is working correctly. Her name was released REPEATEDLY, supposedly by accident.

Also I do not know why you are attacking me for my opinion of this, I have a right to my opinion, your opinion may vary.

BirdieBoo
09-11-2004, 02:37 AM
Seeker, one more thing, raped women DO sometimes have sex very soon after a rape, because they feel that it gives them control back over their OWN sexuality, a control which has been forcibly ripped away by their rapist. In fact, many women go through a period of promiscuity after a rape. I know this from when I volunteered in a rape crisis center and it's particularly COMMON amonst rape victims in their late teens and early 20's.

here is a link with info you may read regarding rape (http://www.pdrhealth.com/content/women_health/chapters/fgwh36.shtml)

I wonder where you get your information about how women "should" act after they are raped?

I'm sorry if Kobe is your favorite sports hero or something, because I personally think he's a rapist and belongs in jail rather than on the hardwoods.

Jeana (DP)
09-13-2004, 10:56 AM
I would think that the experience of being raped would be different for every woman. Since most of them say its not a "sex" act, I can't see why they'd want to go right out and have sex, but since I'm not a victim, its not up to me to say. Personally, I don't really care about any "sports" heros because there aren't any. They are just people who make a ridiculous amount of money for playing a game and don't hear the word 'NO' very often, usually starting at a very young age and it has to have some part in most of them becoming *******s. I don't happen to believe that Kobe was guilty because of what I've read about this case, not because of what he does for a living. The wife is a ho and I feel sorry for his daughter.

Seeker
09-13-2004, 12:56 PM
Seeker, one more thing, raped women DO sometimes have sex very soon after a rape, because they feel that it gives them control back over their OWN sexuality, a control which has been forcibly ripped away by their rapist. In fact, many women go through a period of promiscuity after a rape. I know this from when I volunteered in a rape crisis center and it's particularly COMMON amonst rape victims in their late teens and early 20's.

here is a link with info you may read regarding rape (http://www.pdrhealth.com/content/women_health/chapters/fgwh36.shtml)

I wonder where you get your information about how women "should" act after they are raped?

I'm sorry if Kobe is your favorite sports hero or something, because I personally think he's a rapist and belongs in jail rather than on the hardwoods.

I wasn't attacking you, just asking you some very valid questions to try and understand your pov since you said your mind was not made up until you read the apology. If you think asking you some questions (less agressive than the ones you asked LinasK) was an attack then you might want to reasses the ones you asked LinasK (a victim of rape).

Nope, I don't watch b-ball at all, could care less about him personally. I read the court docs, all of them.
If you haven't followed the case closely then you may have missed where it was reported by her friends (that were there) about the party in the bar where she was giggling about this encounter. I don't have a link offhand, but if I come across it again I'll put it up for you.

And no, even that site you listed doesn't say that right after a rape that women try to have normal sexual relations right after. Look at it again, it says months, not within hours...

I have worked with women who have been raped, not one of them had sex immediately after they were attacked either. Only one other person on this board posted almost the exact same thing...it simply doesn't ring true. Not to the victims of rape, and not to those of us who actually have worked with real rape victims.

I've never, ever come across a real rape victim that went out within hours of being violently raped to have sex with anyone, even a hubby or long term bf! Speaking of that...
The AV's ex-bf refused to give DNA samples to be compared to the sperm found inside her body after the alleged rape. If he hadn't had sex with her why refuse to give a DNA sample?

Read the court docs, they are very informative and they are from both sides.

else. Neither have any of these organizations.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/rape.html
http://www.hopeforhealing.org/
http://www.rapecrisis.org.za/
http://www.ncptsd.org/facts/disasters/fs_foa_handout.html
http://www.actabuse.com/psycho-reactions.html
http://www.ncptsd.org/publications/...l?printable=yes
http://www.911rape.com/impact/


I am not saying nothing happened, I'm saying something doesn't smell right about this case. I think both of them were lying to some degree. She never told Kobe "no" according to the detective who initially interviewed her...yet he's (Kobe) hiding things too.
Maybe it will all come out in the civil case, unless they do a "sealed settlement agreement for an undisclosed sum" which is what Wood usually tries to get.

Jeana (DP)
09-13-2004, 02:07 PM
The AV's ex-bf refused to give DNA samples to be compared to the sperm found inside her body after the alleged rape. If he hadn't had sex with her why refuse to give a DNA sample?


Really Seeker??? Interesting. . . . Even if he DID have sex with her, why would he refuse? Maybe he thinks he may be in a data base or something. . . .

BirdieBoo
09-14-2004, 12:06 AM
I wasn't attacking you, just asking you some very valid questions to try and understand your pov since you said your mind was not made up until you read the apology. If you think asking you some questions (less agressive than the ones you asked LinasK) was an attack then you might want to reasses the ones you asked LinasK (a victim of rape).

Nope, I don't watch b-ball at all, could care less about him personally. I read the court docs, all of them.
If you haven't followed the case closely then you may have missed where it was reported by her friends (that were there) about the party in the bar where she was giggling about this encounter. I don't have a link offhand, but if I come across it again I'll put it up for you.

And no, even that site you listed doesn't say that right after a rape that women try to have normal sexual relations right after. Look at it again, it says months, not within hours...

I have worked with women who have been raped, not one of them had sex immediately after they were attacked either. Only one other person on this board posted almost the exact same thing...it simply doesn't ring true. Not to the victims of rape, and not to those of us who actually have worked with real rape victims.

I've never, ever come across a real rape victim that went out within hours of being violently raped to have sex with anyone, even a hubby or long term bf! Speaking of that...
The AV's ex-bf refused to give DNA samples to be compared to the sperm found inside her body after the alleged rape. If he hadn't had sex with her why refuse to give a DNA sample?

Read the court docs, they are very informative and they are from both sides.

else. Neither have any of these organizations.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/rape.html
http://www.hopeforhealing.org/
http://www.rapecrisis.org.za/
http://www.ncptsd.org/facts/disasters/fs_foa_handout.html
http://www.actabuse.com/psycho-reactions.html
http://www.ncptsd.org/publications/...l?printable=yes
http://www.911rape.com/impact/


I am not saying nothing happened, I'm saying something doesn't smell right about this case. I think both of them were lying to some degree. She never told Kobe "no" according to the detective who initially interviewed her...yet he's (Kobe) hiding things too.
Maybe it will all come out in the civil case, unless they do a "sealed settlement agreement for an undisclosed sum" which is what Wood usually tries to get.

Whatever Seeker. You clearly showed your contempt for my right to my own opinion by asking if I even read the apology. I obviously don't know anything about rape. How do you think I got the job volunteering in the rape crisis center? Obviously because I know NOTHING about rape. Right down to the part about being held down by the neck.You're right, I'm wrong. Just like you are right about this case and the victim is wrong.

That's why many rape victims never tell a soul. Because people don't BELIEVE them. People accuse them of lying. People who weren't even there.

Did anyone tell you you didn't act like a molestation victim after the fact? Was your molestation portrayed in the media before the entire nation with a sympathetic slant towards your molester? Did people judge you for not getting away from your molester when "things started heating up"? Were you portrayed in the media as someone who seduced your molester with the idea of getting money? The answers to any and all of these questions have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with WHETHER OR NOT AN ACTUAL RAPE OCCURRED.They have everything to do with how our society treats rape victims.

Robert Chambers' attorneys portrayed Jennifer Levin just exactly the same way. According to them, she was a slut. She seduced Chambers. SHE ASKED FOR IT. And someone must have thought it was true. Because Jennifer wasn't just raped. She was MURDERED. And portrayed in the media as a loose woman. Who obviously therefore deserved it. Because things like that don't happen to nice girls. And you can't rape a whore. Someone must have thought it was true because her killer walks the streets today, a free man, 37 years old. He did have to do some prison time. But only because of THAT SLUT.


Men who are falsely accused of rape don't apologize for it in order to get out of standing trial for it. That's just my opinion, but I do have some experience to back me up.

I also notice you put up a link for South African rape crisis. I'd say that's reaching a little. South Africa is known for a lot, but not for its exemplary treatment of rape victims. As evidenced by the cartoon on that site of the little kid saying "You can get away with rape if you are famous and have a hotshot legal team"

I think Kobe is a rapist. That is my opinion and I won't change it for you. So it's time to leave me alone about it.

peggy
09-16-2004, 08:52 AM
Sports Illustrated revealing parts of sealed Kobe interview with LE

When he was questioned by two police officers in the parking lot of the Lodge and Spa at Cordillera in the early morning of July 2, 2003, Bryant, after first denying an encounter took place, admitted to "holding her around her neck from behind" and graphically described a series of sex acts he engaged in with his accuser.

• As the officers and Bryant made small talk while walking to his room, Bryant told them he would pay his accuser to make the charges go away because "I'm in the worst f------ situation."

SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/magazine/09/14/kobe0920/index.html)

BirdieBoo
09-16-2004, 12:53 PM
Sports Illustrated revealing parts of sealed Kobe interview with LE

When he was questioned by two police officers in the parking lot of the Lodge and Spa at Cordillera in the early morning of July 2, 2003, Bryant, after first denying an encounter took place, admitted to "holding her around her neck from behind" and graphically described a series of sex acts he engaged in with his accuser.

As the officers and Bryant made small talk while walking to his room, Bryant told them he would pay his accuser to make the charges go away because "I'm in the worst f------ situation."

SI (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/magazine/09/14/kobe0920/index.html)
Thank you for posting that article Peggy. I wonder what kind of man has to pay his sexual partners (consensual or not) *Hush money*. Especially since prostitutes will do the same thing for a lot less.

peggy
09-16-2004, 05:12 PM
Thank you for posting that article Peggy. I wonder what kind of man has to pay his sexual partners (consensual or not) *Hush money*. Especially since prostitutes will do the same thing for a lot less.
A wealthy rapist would do that.

Jeana (DP)
09-16-2004, 05:26 PM
Thank you for posting that article Peggy. I wonder what kind of man has to pay his sexual partners (consensual or not) *Hush money*. Especially since prostitutes will do the same thing for a lot less.


Well we know he paid his wife and that worked out ok!

Seeker
09-16-2004, 05:38 PM
EAGLE COUNTY - Kobe Bryant's statements about last summer's event to sheriff's investigators, and a compact disc recording of the interview, was mailed to the Vail Daily anonymously Wednesday.

The large, brown envelope carried a Denver postmark and no return address.

The CD recording contained the voices of Eagle County Sheriff's Det. Doug Winters, Eagle County Sheriff's Det. Doug Loya and Bryant as Bryant was interviewed the night after he alleged raped a 19-year-old Eagle woman at the Lodge and Spa at Cordillera June 30, 2003.

Whether or not the transcript and CD were complete was impossible to discern at press time. However, since the voices of Winters, Loya and Bryant were discernible, the Daily opted to report on the recording. If any parts of the Bryant's interview have been edited out of the transcript provided to the Daily, those parts will be included later.

The recording and transcript, along with everything else related to the case, were sealed from the public after Bryant's attorneys requested and received a temporary restraining order prohibiting their release. District Judge Richard Hart is expected to rule this month on whether the information will remain sealed.

Bryant's version

On the recording Bryant sounded at times surprised, upset, agitated and disbelieving.

He wondered what the young woman wanted ... money perhaps ... and seemed surprised to learn that, according to Winters, she didn't want anything.

He said he would take a polygraph test, or cooperate in any other way the detectives asked. While the detectives talked what the results of a polygraph test might be, Bryant remarked that he didn't know his hands were shaking.

Bryant's version of events was similar to his alleged victim's. He said they took a tour of the hotel and grounds, that they ended up in his hotel room, that they talked about tattoos and that she showed him where the bears come down to the window near Bryant's suite, Room 35.

The rest is here (http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040915/BREAKING/109160001)

BirdieBoo
09-17-2004, 01:53 AM
Seeker, your link doesn't work.

Rum Tum Tugger
09-17-2004, 03:39 AM
Seeker, your link doesn't work.



Try this one ...

"Bryant cooperative, inconsistent when questioned" (http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040916/NEWS/109160017&rs=2)

"Investigate, punish leak, Bryant's attorneys ask" (http://www.vaildaily.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040916/NEWS/109160018)


September 16, 2004

EAGLE COUNTY - Kobe Bryant was cooperative with the sheriff's investigators who questioned him the night after an Eagle woman said he had raped her, although he gave them sometimes conflicting answers.

"Ask me what, ask me something, ask me anything," Bryant said, according to a transcript and recording mailed anonymously to the Vail Daily this week.

Bryant's first reaction to questions about having sex with his alleged victim was a denial, which Eagle County Sheriff's Detective Doug Winters would later say was one reason he didn't completely believe Bryant's version of events the night of June 30, 2003.

Winters: "OK. Um. I'll be blunt and ask you. Did you have sexual intercourse with her?"

Bryant: "No."

As the questioning continued, Bryant later said, "... uh I did have sexual intercourse with her ..."

Sheriff's Detective Dan Loya then asked, "OK, was it consensual?"

Bryant answered, "It was totally consensual."
Loya asked, "What makes you believe, what makes you believe it was consensual?"

Bryant answered, "'Cause she started kissing me, (inaudible) then she bent over and (inaudible)."
Bryant told the investigators that he stopped the first time he heard young woman say, "No." He said the young woman had sex voluntarily with him. Then while she was kissing him goodbye, she asked for an autograph, which Bryant declined to give, saying she could have it the next day when she showed up for work, he told the detectives.

Winters later testified in court that the alleged victim said she told Bryant "no" at least twice.
Loya and Winters talked to Bryant for about 75 minutes in his room and the parking lot of the Lodge & Spa at Cordillera last summer.

Bryant told Loya and Winters he regularly had similar sexual encounters with a woman named "Michelle." Bryant said Michelle could verify that he held her from behind the same way he held the 19-year-old Eagle woman who accused him of sexual assault.

Bryant said the two took a tour of the Cordillera grounds, which ended back at his room. He said she showed him where the bears come up to the back window.

Family concerns

Bryant told the investigators that his wife and daughter mean everything to him. He also expressed concerns about his career and his image if the rape allegation became public.

"Is there any way I can settle this, whatever it is?" asked Bryant.

"Well, what do you mean by settle?" Winters answered.

"If my wife, if my wife found out that anybody made any type of allegations against me, she would be infuriated," Bryant said.

Bryant told investigators he would take a polygraph test.

"If it becomes public I'll lose my wife ... that's all I care about."

Tattoos

During questioning, Loya asked Bryant how the woman showed him a tattoo on her back. He told the investigators that she had a tattoo on her ankle and shoulder. When asked about the young woman, he immediately recalled her name for the investigators.

Bryant: "She had like a strap or whatever and she like lowered it. I told her to turn around and she lowered it and she showed me."

Winters: "OK, all right um, did anything happen in the room?"

Bryant: "Like what?"

Loya: "Uh, did you guys hug or kiss?"

Winters: "Kiss or hug?"

Bryant: "No."

That was before the detectives informed him of her accusation and that evidence of a sexual encounter have been obtained. Later he claimed that she had kissed him first to initiate their encounter.

Motives?

Bryant seemed surprised the alleged victim didn't appear to investigators to want anything from him.

Bryant: "... I can't believe this girl. What does she want from me?"

Winters: "I don't think she wants anything."

Bryant: "Are you kidding me?"

Loya: "What are you willing to give her?"

Bryant: "She has to want, she has to want something (inaudible) she has to want something."

Winters: "What do you mean she has to want something? I don't understand."

Bryant: "She has to have a, she has to have a motive, to do, she has to have a motive to do this."

Winters: "What would be, what do you think her motive is, then?"

Loya: "Are you willing to pay that if she is?"

Bryant: "I got to. I got to. I'm in the worst (edited) situation."

{Continued next post)

Rum Tum Tugger
09-17-2004, 03:44 AM
The hug

Bryant said she asked him for a hug, which he said was initially platonic, but grew into much more.

Detective Winters: Yeah, did she ask you to give, did you ask her to give you a hug?

Bryant: We stood there and you know I pretty much (inaudible) like I don't know, I might have hugged you all, like, when you came up to me, and I'd be like a hug, you know what I mean.

Detective Loya: Was just a friendly gesture?

Bryant: Right. I mean it looked like this, like OK, all right ... whatever ... you know ... she kissed me (inaudible).

Detective Winters: And I, and I don't disagree that any of that happened, okay. I do not disagree with it that any of that happened, okay.

The demonstration

Bryant demonstrated on Loya how he and the young woman were positioned on the chair where the sexual encounter occurred.

Detective Loya: Did you ever have her from the back of her head or her neck? Were you ... ? What kind of intercourse was it?

Bryant: (inaudible) held her from the back? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Detective Loya: Yeah.
(Lots of voices talking over.)

Bryant: (Inaudible). All right um ... (inaudible)

Detective Loya: I don't want you to demonstrate.

Bryant: I held her from the back and I went like this.

Detective Loya: So what did you have around her neck?

Bryant: I had my right hand like this and my other hand like that.

Detective Winters: Okay.

Detective Loya: Okay.

Bryant: But ... (inaudible).

Detective Loya: How hard were you holding her?

Detective Winters: OK, all right.

Bryant: I don't know. My hands are strong. I don't know.

Media apprehension

Bryant said he feared the news media finding out about the investigation.

Bryant: All right, all right, can I ask you a question, though?

Detective Winters: I'll let you ask some questions.

Bryant: I do not want it to get to the media.

Detective Winters: We don't either.

Detective Loya: That's why we're here at this time of night.

Bryant: So how could that happen?

Detective Winters: And we're doing everything we can to try to avoid this going out publicly. We're working on that okay. I, I don't know the answer to that right now okay, I can't promise you anything. I wish I could but I can't. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in our line of work, okay?

Detective Loya: Hey Kobe, have you ever had any of these allegations made against you before?

Bryant: No. Are you kidding me?

Detective Loya: No?

Bryant: Never, I like, I treat everybody with the utmost respect, absolutely nothing. ...

Skepticism

Winters said he isn't sure when the sex was no longer consensual, but at some point he thought it became became so.

Detective Winters: And I understand, and just let me finish okay. So one you lied to us, okay, that doesn't help. Two, um, then, then we confront this issue and you seemed a little bit skeptical in the details of exactly what happened throughout the entire incident okay. I'm not saying you're a person that would do something like this okay. I agree with you, I agree that you got caught up in the moment. Okay. No doubt about it, you know, no doubt about it whatsoever. What I think you got caught up in also Mr. Bryant, is that, and I agree, I, I completely agree you, it was consensual up to the point of the hugging and kissing issue I agree, completely consensual. I have no issues with that whatsoever. What I, what I'm being, what I'm skeptical on is that I don't know how consensual the sexual intercourse was. Okay. I don't, I don't, I guess to be honest with you I'm not sure, I'm not sure, if we're getting all the facts presented to us as far as exactly what happened.

Early alert

More than two hours before Bryant was contacted by law enforcement that night, a Vail Daily reporter received a telephone tip that sheriff's investigators were on their way to Cordillera to question him about a sexual assault allegation.

The Daily decided not to report on the investigation until more formal action took place that advanced the case against Bryant. If authorities had deemed the allegations against Bryant unfounded and closed the case, the Daily would not have reported on the accusations.

The transcript

The Daily published a story about the transcript Thursday, and a complete transcript of the interview was posted on the paper's Web site, vaildaily.com, with light editing for profanity and some of the most graphic details in the questioning. The printout and audio recording were mailed anonymously from Denver in a large, brown envelope with no return address.

Sources close to the case said the transcript was accurate.

At the request of Bryant's attorneys, District Judge Richard Hart had issued a temporary restraining order prohibiting any public release of records or evidence from the case.

Calls for investigation by Bryant's attorneys left some legal experts unmoved.

"This woman has been getting pounded for 14 months, and now the first time someone comes out with something about Kobe Bryant the defense is yelling foul," said former Denver District Attorney Norm Early. "He isn't going through anything his victim hasn't gone through over and over."

Local defense attorney Jim Fahrenholtz said Bryant's statements were really nothing special.

"It doesn't seem too out of the ordinary for a guy being asked questions about committing adultry. Most men would naturally be nervous. It seemed consistent with what had said all along. If someone sent it to try to be damning to him, I didn't find it that damning."

Fahrenholtz said they dealt with the situation head-on when they held their press conference at Los Angeles' Staples Center the day Bryant was charged.

A spokeswoman for prosecutors said Bryant's statements were one piece of their case.
"We had a strong case and a lot of evidence, and this was one piece of it," said District Attorney's Office spokeswoman Krista Flannigan.
"His statements would have been admissible had criminal trial gone forward."

Bryant's statements were part of the physical evidence his defense attorneys had hoped to keep out of the criminal trial, if it had gone forward. As the two investigators were collecting Bryant's clothing and other physical evidence, Bryant gave them the T-shirt he was wearing, which turned out to be stained with three flecks of the woman's blood.

The criminal case was dropped Sept. 1 after Bryant's alleged victim told prosecutors she could not go forward with testifying. The lawsuit, filed last month in federal court in Denver, is still pending.

"It's too bad they didn't go to trial," said Fahrenholtz.

Doyle
09-24-2004, 09:59 AM
thanks for these tidbits RumTum Tugger.

I personally would have like to see it go to trial.

I am not a fan of Kobe at all. I would like to see where all the 'reported' information about the 'supposed' victim really came from. I would not be surprised to see one Pamela Mackey masterminding a lot of slime at the 'supposed' victim.

In my mind he is guilty.

I was recently in vegas for a few days, and I attended the world music awards, and lo and behold, one of the presenters was Kobe. He was greeted with a tremendously favorable reception. So for him, this is just about over.

lisag
09-24-2004, 02:41 PM
I dont think he is guilty of rape... I think he is guilty of adultery.

I think the "victim" has issues..

I think Kobe is a jerk for haivng an affair..

I think his wife is an insecure knob for putting up with it/him..

BirdieBoo
09-25-2004, 02:23 AM
So for him, this is just about over.
Until he does it again.

VespaElf
09-26-2004, 06:43 PM
Could this be the REAL reason the "AV" refused to continue with Criminal case??

http://www.globemagazine.com/

http://www.tabloidcolumn.com/kobe-bryant.html


The Father is possibly someone she met at Rehab...........oh that wouldve gone over well with a Jury!!!!!! ;)


I still feel Kobe is a pampered,over paid sports "star" who is guilty of two things-

Adultry and Bad Judgement !!

Jeana (DP)
09-27-2004, 02:48 PM
Is that true? How absolutely sad is that. She's going to bring a kid into her messed up life? Wonderful. Just wonderful. She's at least 8 weeks pregnant by a guy she met in rehab who has Hep. C? :loser: :loser: :loser:

Note to Kobe: Next time you cheat on your wife, make sure she's not a drug addicted head case. :rolleyes:

Jeana (DP)
09-28-2004, 04:49 PM
Well, here they are - in all their gross glory. Not for children:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0924041kobea1.html

Jeana (DP)
09-29-2004, 02:09 PM
Bryant accuser adopts 'attorney for the damned' in civil suit


DENVER (AP) — The Kobe Bryant defense team that saw a rape charge against the NBA star thrown out three weeks ago faces a tough new challenge in civil court: L. Lin Wood, a fearless, media-savvy Atlanta lawyer once called the "attorney for the damned."

Wood is representing Bryant's 20-year-old accuser in a lawsuit in which the woman is seeking an unspecified amount of money, as well as public vindication.

"If you're going to go to war — and I do adopt the philosophy that every lawsuit is a war and each step along the way can be described as a battle — then you've got to believe in what you're fighting for and in the person you're fighting for," Wood said in a recent interview. "I do that."

The federal lawsuit against Bryant is unusual territory for Wood, who is best known for bringing libel and defamation cases on behalf of the accused.

Story continues


www.courttv.com

VespaElf
09-29-2004, 02:32 PM
Bryant accuser adopts 'attorney for the damned' in civil suit


DENVER (AP) The Kobe Bryant defense team that saw a rape charge against the NBA star thrown out three weeks ago faces a tough new challenge in civil court: L. Lin Wood, a fearless, media-savvy Atlanta lawyer once called the "attorney for the damned."

Wood is representing Bryant's 20-year-old accuser in a lawsuit in which the woman is seeking an unspecified amount of money, as well as public vindication.

"If you're going to go to war and I do adopt the philosophy that every lawsuit is a war and each step along the way can be described as a battle then you've got to believe in what you're fighting for and in the person you're fighting for," Wood said in a recent interview. "I do that."

The federal lawsuit against Bryant is unusual territory for Wood, who is best known for bringing libel and defamation cases on behalf of the accused.

Story continues


www.courttv.com






She dropped out of the criminal case because she didnt want her private life on display........well what does she think will happen in a civ trial where the 'gloves are off'???? IF she is pregnant Mackay can (and would) ask for all those lovely details............sheesh and in Lin Wood certainly lessens her credibilty (if thats at all possible)!
I hope we get to find out what the text messages said,who Mr.X is AND in the end she doesnt get a dime!!!!!!!!!!

BirdieBoo
09-29-2004, 02:42 PM
She dropped out of the criminal case because she didnt want her private life on display........well what does she think will happen in a civ trial where the 'gloves are off'???? IF she is pregnant Mackay can (and would) ask for all those lovely details............sheesh and in Lin Wood certainly lessens her credibilty (if thats at all possible)!
I hope we get to find out what the text messages said,who Mr.X is AND in the end she doesnt get a dime!!!!!!!!!!
Why would her pregnancy have any relevance in the civil case?

BirdieBoo
09-29-2004, 02:43 PM
Well, here they are - in all their gross glory. Not for children:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0924041kobea1.html
Thanks for those transcripts Jeana.

Jeana (DP)
09-29-2004, 02:57 PM
She dropped out of the criminal case because she didnt want her private life on display........well what does she think will happen in a civ trial where the 'gloves are off'???? IF she is pregnant Mackay can (and would) ask for all those lovely details............sheesh and in Lin Wood certainly lessens her credibilty (if thats at all possible)!
I hope we get to find out what the text messages said,who Mr.X is AND in the end she doesnt get a dime!!!!!!!!!!


That's crap. She dropped the civil case because she's a lunatic. Lin Wood is her best hope for a settlement before any trial. I can't see a jury awarding her anything, but someone from his camp may want this settled in order to avoid damaging his "reputation" any more than it has been. If he's truly innocent of the rape charges, then I hope he certainly learns his lessons. He had a long time affair already going on when this happened. No wonder the wife got the big rock. She had to hear about all this at once. If she has to go through a civil trial, its going to cost him a fortune just to keep her happy.

Jeana (DP)
09-29-2004, 03:19 PM
Ouch!! Kobe outed Shaq:

Bryant Told Police of O'Neal Payouts

Hours after his sexual encounter with a hotel employee in Colorado, Kobe Bryant told investigators that Shaquille O'Neal, his Laker teammate at the time, had paid up to $1 million to women to keep them quiet about "situations like this," according to a police report.

An Eagle County, Colo., detective wrote in a report that Bryant made the comment near the end of a lengthy interrogation on July 2, 2003, about allegations that Bryant had raped the woman, then 19, in his resort hotel room.


O'Neal was informed of the comment last September, about two weeks before Laker training camp opened in Hawaii, when prosecution investigators made an unsuccessful attempt to question him. His agent, Perry Rogers, said Tuesday that the allegation in Bryant's statement was untrue and "undeserving of a response."


Much of Bryant's 75-minute interview was tape-recorded, but Det. Doug Winters wrote that the reference to O'Neal came after his partner, Det. Dan Loya, had turned off the recorder.


The incident report, a portion of which was reviewed by the Los Angeles Times, is part of the sealed file in the criminal case that was brought against Bryant last year and dropped this month. A Colorado judge has a motion before him to unseal documents from the case.


"Bryant made a comment to us about what another teammate does in situations like these," Winters wrote. "Bryant stated he should have done what Shaq (Shaquille O'Neal) does. Bryant stated that Shaq would pay his women not to say anything. He stated Shaq has paid up to a million dollars already for situations like this. He stated he, Bryant, treats a woman with respect, therefore they shouldn't say anything."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20040929/ts_latimes/bryanttoldpoliceofonealpayouts

BirdieBoo
09-29-2004, 08:58 PM
Ooooh. No WONDER Shaq hates him so bad.

Edited to add a snippet from the article:

For his part, Bryant seemed perplexed at O'Neal's attitude toward him. "It can't be a personality thing, because I really don't know the guy that much," Bryant said at the time. "I don't really hang around him that much."

How odd that he doesn't know him that much, but he knows that he pays women to keep them quiet after sex? AND he knows how much the alleged payouts are? That doesn't stack up to me.

Kobe initially lied at the beginning of the interview. That's been established. I think he lied throughout the entire thing.

Jeana (DP)
09-30-2004, 08:39 AM
I'm sure there are things that are "known" about all of these guys. Kobe just tried to use what he knew about Shaq to his advantage. I think its probably true. I think it happens a lot more than we know about. There's a lot of hush hush money in Hollywood. Nothing that I've heard surprises me. Men who cheat on their wives are liars. Nothing new about that either. They don't admit it until their backs are against the wall. Doesn't mean he raped this girl and I hope she doesn't get a dime, has to change her name and move to the burbs somewhere and enter therapy. Kobe and the guys like him will ALWAYS be the way they are because women allow them to be that way. The first time a woman forgives behavior, its a license for them to do it again and again and again and there's nothing she can say about it.

VespaElf
09-30-2004, 08:47 AM
I'm sure there are things that are "known" about all of these guys. Kobe just tried to use what he knew about Shaq to his advantage. I think its probably true. I think it happens a lot more than we know about. There's a lot of hush hush money in Hollywood. Nothing that I've heard surprises me. Men who cheat on their wives are liars. Nothing new about that either. They don't admit it until their backs are against the wall. Doesn't mean he raped this girl and I hope she doesn't get a dime, has to change her name and move to the burbs somewhere and enter therapy. Kobe and the guys like him will ALWAYS be the way they are because women allow them to be that way. The first time a woman forgives behavior, its a license for them to do it again and again and again and there's nothing she can say about it.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Agreed 100% !

Sally
09-30-2004, 10:00 AM
Kobe Bryant Police Interview
NBA star's graphic account of hotel room encounter, finishing move
SEPTEMBER 24--For the first time in its unsanitized form, below you'll find the official 57-page transcript of the police interview of Kobe Bryant conducted the night after the NBA star was accused of rape by a 19-year-old Colorado woman. During a 75-minute conversation with Eagle County Sheriff's investigators Dan Loya and Doug Winters in July 2003, the athlete first denied having sex with the woman and then claimed their encounter was consensual. While our friends at the family-friendly Vail Daily--which first obtained the document last week--had to scrub the interview of profanity and certain graphic details--TSG has left in all the dirty words, thoughts, and deeds.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0924041kobea1.html (http://)

VespaElf
09-30-2004, 11:39 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1890048


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3214386,00.html



Quote:

...........also said that the woman who accused Bryant of rape retracted portions of her previous statements to investigators in a letter written on July 31, 2004, about a month before Bryant's trial was scheduled to start..........



How many times has her story changed? Doesnt any of the evidence showing KB's innocence matter?
This woman has seriously damaged the rights and cases of ACTUAL victims!!!!!! :behindbar Why is no one upset about that??

Sprocket
09-30-2004, 12:00 PM
I'm not surprised Kobe's accuser is pregnant. With a Borderline, when you kick the drugs you're on, all that's left is the sex. And Borderline's are known to abuse that, too.

Retracting some of her initial statements. Wouldn't that mean, that a portion of her original statements were a lie? Borderline's are known, for their false accusations.

Here's a true story about a Borderline. Think of it as a primer on BPD's.

http://www.thomasscoville.com/borderlands.htm

BirdieBoo
09-30-2004, 02:09 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1890048


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3214386,00.html



Quote:

...........also said that the woman who accused Bryant of rape retracted portions of her previous statements to investigators in a letter written on July 31, 2004, about a month before Bryant's trial was scheduled to start..........



How many times has her story changed? Doesnt any of the evidence showing KB's innocence matter?
This woman has seriously damaged the rights and cases of ACTUAL victims!!!!!! :behindbar Why is no one upset about that??

What evidence is there showing Kobe's innocence? As far as I can tell, it's a he said-she said kind of a thing. Except she had injuries and bled on his shirt, and he initially LIED to the police about ever having had sex with her.

Also, the police promised to prosecute her if she made false accusations. That hasn't happened.

Of course the defense attorneys for Kobe are going to SAY that she made false accusations. Smear the accuser has been the name of the game throughout the entire trial.

Jeana (DP)
09-30-2004, 02:20 PM
What evidence is there showing Kobe's innocence? As far as I can tell, it's a he said-she said kind of a thing. Except she had injuries and bled on his shirt, and he initially LIED to the police about ever having had sex with her.

Also, the police promised to prosecute her if she made false accusations. That hasn't happened.

Of course the defense attorneys for Kobe are going to SAY that she made false accusations. Smear the accuser has been the name of the game throughout the entire trial.

He doesn't need to prove his innocence. She now needs to prove he's liable to her. Her credibility will be KEY in this case. From what I've already read about her, she has ZERO credibility.

BirdieBoo
10-01-2004, 12:56 AM
He doesn't need to prove his innocence. She now needs to prove he's liable to her. Her credibility will be KEY in this case. From what I've already read about her, she has ZERO credibility.
I am just wondering what this evidence is, since Messiecake asserted in her post which I quoted that the evidence exists, I'm sure she would love to share it.

Jeana (DP)
10-01-2004, 09:20 AM
I am just wondering what this evidence is, since Messiecake asserted in her post which I quoted that the evidence exists, I'm sure she would love to share it.


• "Letter from complaining witness dated July 31, 2004, retracting portions of her statements given on July 1 and Sept. 12, 2003."

Exactly!! While so many folks will focus on the fact that Kobe denied even having sex with her when he was first approached by the police, we know that its a normal pattern for cheaters to deny until they're up against the wall. The cops told this woman at the very beginning that if she was not telling them the truth, she could very well be in serious trouble. Depending on exactly what this evidence is, Lin Wood will either get her a great deal of money or she'll drop this case as well. If she does end up dropping the case, I'd like to see Kobe sue her for liable, damage to his reputation, false arrest, attorneys fees, and a laundry list of other things. However, he'll have to be willing to tell a lot of private things on the stand and I don't think he's got the guts for that.

VespaElf
10-01-2004, 10:01 AM
Evidence to his innocence...........shes a known liar/attention seeker,drug user who changed her story numerous times in addition to lying outright to LE.
3 different kinds of semen were found ON her,two kinds IN her as well as in her underwear(male pubic hair NOT Kobes was found in the underwear as well) .
There is eyewitness testimony that the night AFTER her "rape" she was bragging about the size of Kobe's penis(as I rape SURVIVOR myself and a victim adocate/counsler that outrages me most of all!! :furious: ) and bragging about how much money she would get(in addition to the money she got as a "victim" from the state).


Look when I first heard about this (and I didnt know who Kobe was) I thought he was guilty.Oh look another spoiled,rapist jock.................but then I started reading anything and everything I could and following the case and I came to the conclusion that Kobe is a spolied jock guilty of adultry but not rape and I am upset at all the damage this sad,sick woman has caused REAL victims.

I know many people still want him to be guilty,I understand that anger but its misplaced.Some people seem to want him to be guilty so bad that if this woman came out tomorrow and admitted she lied I think they wouldnt belive it and insist she was paid off to say it!


I belive she lied and I belive Kobe,while guilty of many things ,is innocent of rape.Everyone is intitled to belive what they want and I cant forced anyone to think otherwise.


Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it!

BirdieBoo
10-02-2004, 02:04 AM
Evidence to his innocence...........shes a known liar/attention seeker,drug user who changed her story numerous times in addition to lying outright to LE.
3 different kinds of semen were found ON her,two kinds IN her as well as in her underwear(male pubic hair NOT Kobes was found in the underwear as well) .
There is eyewitness testimony that the night AFTER her "rape" she was bragging about the size of Kobe's penis(as I rape SURVIVOR myself and a victim adocate/counsler that outrages me most of all!! :furious: ) and bragging about how much money she would get(in addition to the money she got as a "victim" from the state).
Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it!

I don't blame you for sticking to your opinion, everyone is entitled to their own.

All the evidence you posted though was about HER, my point being anything about HER does not make HIM a rapist or not. He lied to police initially, so at the very least he is a liar and a philanderer.

Blame the victim is the common defense for rapists, I do not know the girl so I cannot state that she is a known liar and drug user, promiscuous, etc, because I have NOT seen these police reports stating these things about her. If you would care to link them I would greatly appreciate it, as I have seen the transcripts of the police interviews from Kobe's side of it, and also Pamela Mackey's side of what the girl said.

There is another liar and philanderer discussed elsewhere on this forum, everyone I think is now clear that just because someone is a liar and a philanderer who cheats on his wife does not make that person a criminal right?

VespaElf
10-02-2004, 04:28 PM
I don't blame you for sticking to your opinion, everyone is entitled to their own.

All the evidence you posted though was about HER, my point being anything about HER does not make HIM a rapist or not. He lied to police initially, so at the very least he is a liar and a philanderer.

Blame the victim is the common defense for rapists, I do not know the girl so I cannot state that she is a known liar and drug user, promiscuous, etc, because I have NOT seen these police reports stating these things about her. If you would care to link them I would greatly appreciate it, as I have seen the transcripts of the police interviews from Kobe's side of it, and also Pamela Mackey's side of what the girl said.

There is another liar and philanderer discussed elsewhere on this forum, everyone I think is now clear that just because someone is a liar and a philanderer who cheats on his wife does not make that person a criminal right?



So even though the Proscuters paid for her to go to rehab you dont consider her a drug addict?????? And her changing her story doesnt make her a liar??(she lied about her sexuall activity to LE) None of this evidence counts to you??


That known evidence from LE and after reading accounts on Court TV and numerous magazine articles which had first hand interviews with her former roommate ,ex boyfriend and different high school and college friends is what I formed my opinion on.

Funny no one came out saying bad things about Kobe(he did just fine damaging himself on his own!)


Ive posted links to most of this info on here in the different Kobe threads.


I have no love for Kobe and fully agree hes a liar and an adulter but I just dont feel hes a rapist.

Im also not blaming the victim as,imo,there is no victim.


This case became about her because she chose to lie to LE and live the life she leads .Her credibilty ,in a "he said/she said" case ,with no physical evidence that backs up her story,then becomes an issue.




Its clear youre in the camp of" hes guilty and nothing will convince me otherwise" so its pointless for me to continue.


As I said I belive what I belive .



And what does Scott Peterson have to do with this? Scott is a guilty as hell MURDERER..........thats a horse of a different color!

BirdieBoo
10-02-2004, 07:22 PM
So even though the Proscuters paid for her to go to rehab you dont consider her a drug addict?????? And her changing her story doesnt make her a liar??(she lied about her sexuall activity to LE) None of this evidence counts to you??


That known evidence from LE and after reading accounts on Court TV and numerous magazine articles which had first hand interviews with her former roommate ,ex boyfriend and different high school and college friends is what I formed my opinion on.

Funny no one came out saying bad things about Kobe(he did just fine damaging himself on his own!)


Ive posted links to most of this info on here in the different Kobe threads.


I have no love for Kobe and fully agree hes a liar and an adulter but I just dont feel hes a rapist.

Im also not blaming the victim as,imo,there is no victim.


This case became about her because she chose to lie to LE and live the life she leads .Her credibilty ,in a "he said/she said" case ,with no physical evidence that backs up her story,then becomes an issue.




Its clear youre in the camp of" hes guilty and nothing will convince me otherwise" so its pointless for me to continue.


As I said I belive what I belive .



And what does Scott Peterson have to do with this? Scott is a guilty as hell MURDERER..........thats a horse of a different color! Actually if you could please post some links to your allegations about the girl, as I asked in my previos post, it may change my mind. But since no one has done so, I guess these allegations are unsubstantiated. I didn't mention Scott Peterson....I just mentioned lying philandering guys. There is more than one of those discussed on this forum!

I don't know of anything that goes on at courttv forums since I do not read or post there.

Also, I never accused you of blaming the victim, I said it was a common defense of rapists. Does that mean that I am calling you a rapist? No.

I have not seen anything substantiated about this girl that means Kobe didn't do it. If anyone wants to post anything that is substantiated about the girl, feel free.

Messicake, you also posted that you did not report your rape to LE because you were afraid of getting dragged through the mud. I am very sorry that you were raped. Why did you feel you would be dragged through the mud? was it because you felt that you did something wrong?

If a 14 year old virgin could be dragged through the mud for making a rape charge on a local hometown guy, I'm sure that it could happen on a much larger scale for a sexually active 19-year old who parties, when making a rape charge against a very wealthy and powerful man who has up until that point been portrayed in the media WORLDWIDE with a squeaky clean image. A media darling if you will. A squeaky clean image means a squeaky clean image to protect.

Even prostitutes can be raped. Drug addicts can be raped.

Evidence against the girl's character is not the same as evidence proving Kobe didn't rape her.

VespaElf
10-03-2004, 01:02 PM
Actually if you could please post some links to your allegations about the girl, as I asked in my previos post, it may change my mind. But since no one has done so, I guess these allegations are unsubstantiated. I didn't mention Scott Peterson....I just mentioned lying philandering guys. There is more than one of those discussed on this forum!

I don't know of anything that goes on at courttv forums since I do not read or post there.

Also, I never accused you of blaming the victim, I said it was a common defense of rapists. Does that mean that I am calling you a rapist? No.

I have not seen anything substantiated about this girl that means Kobe didn't do it. If anyone wants to post anything that is substantiated about the girl, feel free.

Messicake, you also posted that you did not report your rape to LE because you were afraid of getting dragged through the mud. I am very sorry that you were raped. Why did you feel you would be dragged through the mud? was it because you felt that you did something wrong?

If a 14 year old virgin could be dragged through the mud for making a rape charge on a local hometown guy, I'm sure that it could happen on a much larger scale for a sexually active 19-year old who parties, when making a rape charge against a very wealthy and powerful man who has up until that point been portrayed in the media WORLDWIDE with a squeaky clean image. A media darling if you will. A squeaky clean image means a squeaky clean image to protect.

Even prostitutes can be raped. Drug addicts can be raped.

Evidence against the girl's character is not the same as evidence proving Kobe didn't rape her.


Evidence about her character is pertinent because its her word against his-the dna evidence only proves there was sexual activity with Kobe and TWO other men (which contridicts her original police statement).There was/is no evidence of rape.

Im not sure what "evidence" youre looking for Birdie.Everything I have stated was widely printed and reported byThe Smoking Gun, S.I,Fox News,Court TV,Maxim ,People etc etc

Have you not read anything about the case?
It seems you have been careful to not read anything that doesnt support your opinion.
How do you not read anything at Court TV?
Ive posted links in the other Kobe thread so if you want them go find them.
I suggest you research and read like I did.

Im not out to prove Kobe''s case ,just state my opinion and like I said before I think your mind is made up and nothing I say will change it and thats fine.



No harm,no foul.


Im just waiting for the Civ. trial............all will be revealed imo.




As for my case I did wait to tell my parents because I was worried about getting into trouble.
They were away and I was somewhere I shouldnt have been and didnt want my sister (who was supposed to be with me) or I to get into trouble-silly but at 14 it made sense.I was confused and scared.

We never went to LE but instead my parents consulted a lawyer who advised us because I didnt tell LE immediately and there was no evidence it would be my word against his and my credibility would become the issue(which I understand 100%) as its not like he was a career criminal,he had no record and most likely nothing would happen but more pain.
I dont blame my 14 year old self or my family or LE.


Yes victims get dragged through the mud and the criminals have all the rights.
That makes me mad and its wrong.


In this case the "AV" brought it on herself and Im mad at her not Kobe(although hes a liar and was wrong) thats all.


We just agree to disagree.

BirdieBoo
10-03-2004, 02:04 PM
Have you not read anything about the case?
It seems you have been careful to not read anything that doesnt support your opinion.
How do you not read anything at Court TV?

The first part of this statement is nothing more than a personal insult. You do not know me, and therefore know nothing about my reading habits.

As for the second part, I did not know that it was a requirement for all WS posters to ALSO belong to CourtTV.

You are the one who stated that there was evidence of Kobe's innocence, you haven't posted any here. Everything I have seen that you posted elsewhere came from Pam Mackey & Co. Except for the one interview with one of the girl's "friends" which read like an excerpt from the movie "Mean Girls" where the interviewer stated that she did not like the girl and did not want to be friends with her anymore.

VespaElf
10-03-2004, 05:50 PM
The first part of this statement is nothing more than a personal insult. You do not know me, and therefore know nothing about my reading habits.

As for the second part, I did not know that it was a requirement for all WS posters to ALSO belong to CourtTV.

You are the one who stated that there was evidence of Kobe's innocence, you haven't posted any here. Everything I have seen that you posted elsewhere came from Pam Mackey & Co. Except for the one interview with one of the girl's "friends" which read like an excerpt from the movie "Mean Girls" where the interviewer stated that she did not like the girl and did not want to be friends with her anymore.

It was not meant as an insult and Im sorry if you took it that way but it just seems odd to me youve never read ANYTHING contary to your opinion hence I asked if youve been reading up and what youve read.
I think Scott did it but I have certainly checked out Marlene's SII site-I love getting as much info as I can from both sides so I can create an informed opinion.
I also don't "belong" to Court TV but I do read there (and NOT the boards!) but the "Top News" and "Trials" I read daily.
CCL has provided excellent coverage of the Kobe case......does that not count? What about any of Nancy Grace's reporting?


Im not the reference libriarian.............if you're truly interested in looking at BOTH sides you wouldve done so by now .Im sure anything I pull up will be dismissed by you as"tabloid rumors" or "unfair" etc
You made up your mind Birdie and nothing is going to change it,more power to you.

Like I said we'll just agree to disagree and Im finished with this.

BirdieBoo
10-03-2004, 07:39 PM
It was not meant as an insult and Im sorry if you took it that way but it just seems odd to me youve never read ANYTHING contary to your opinion hence I asked if youve been reading up and what youve read.
I think Scott did it but I have certainly checked out Marlene's SII site-I love getting as much info as I can from both sides so I can create an informed opinion.
I also don't "belong" to Court TV but I do read there (and NOT the boards!) but the "Top News" and "Trials" I read daily.
CCL has provided excellent coverage of the Kobe case......does that not count? What about any of Nancy Grace's reporting?


Im not the reference libriarian.............if you're truly interested in looking at BOTH sides you wouldve done so by now .Im sure anything I pull up will be dismissed by you as"tabloid rumors" or "unfair" etc
You made up your mind Birdie and nothing is going to change it,more power to you.

Like I said we'll just agree to disagree and Im finished with this.

I told you what I've found about the girl, If you have anything different then feel free to post it, otherwise, no need to keep arguing. You're right, My opinion WON't change until I see something substantial about this girl, that did NOT come from Pam Mackey & co. Even the stuff posted at the smoking gun about the girl came from Pam Mackey.

YOU are the one that asserts that there is evidence proving that Kobe is innocent, I asked you to substantiate and you have posted PLENTY of stuff about how the girl did this and that, and even stuff about ME, when you don't even know me. So I will assume that this evidence of Kobe's innocence that you were referring to is something that you can't prove the existence of.

My use of CourtTV has nothing to do with Kobe bryant either.

Like i said before, even if the girl is a prostitute, that doesn't mean kobe didn't rape her. After all, why apologize for something that never occurred?

Edited to add: I just read a nice article over at courttv about the Kobe case. it said that the defense that Bryant's team used is commonly called the "nutty slutty" defense.

VespaElf
10-04-2004, 08:14 AM
I told you what I've found about the girl, If you have anything different then feel free to post it, otherwise, no need to keep arguing. You're right, My opinion WON't change until I see something substantial about this girl, that did NOT come from Pam Mackey & co. Even the stuff posted at the smoking gun about the girl came from Pam Mackey.

YOU are the one that asserts that there is evidence proving that Kobe is innocent, I asked you to substantiate and you have posted PLENTY of stuff about how the girl did this and that, and even stuff about ME, when you don't even know me. So I will assume that this evidence of Kobe's innocence that you were referring to is something that you can't prove the existence of.

My use of CourtTV has nothing to do with Kobe bryant either.

Like i said before, even if the girl is a prostitute, that doesn't mean kobe didn't rape her. After all, why apologize for something that never occurred?

Edited to add: I just read a nice article over at courttv about the Kobe case. it said that the defense that Bryant's team used is commonly called the "nutty slutty" defense.



What did I say about you??? I apologised for you misunderstanding something I wrote!! Why arent you jumping on everyone else who also has posted opinions similar to mine??? AND why are you so angry? It seems youve got alot more going on then if Kobe is guilty or not!

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD!!!!!!!! THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR REAL LIFE!!!!!! I think you need to relax.I said nothing nothing mean nor offensive towards you and I apologise if you feel I did.
Why cant you just agree to disagree and move on like I keep trying to?

I said I was finshed with this and the only reason Im posting is because you claim I said something negative about you which is clearly not true.....

BirdieBoo
10-04-2004, 12:58 PM
What did I say about you??? I apologised for you misunderstanding something I wrote!! Why arent you jumping on everyone else who also has posted opinions similar to mine??? AND why are you so angry? It seems youve got alot more going on then if Kobe is guilty or not!

THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD!!!!!!!! THIS DOES NOT AFFECT YOUR REAL LIFE!!!!!! I think you need to relax.I said nothing nothing mean nor offensive towards you and I apologise if you feel I did.
Why cant you just agree to disagree and move on like I keep trying to?

I said I was finshed with this and the only reason Im posting is because you claim I said something negative about you which is clearly not true.....

I have taken the liberty of bolding some of the things you have said about ME.

A few posts back:

Its clear youre in the camp of" hes guilty and nothing will convince me otherwise" so its pointless for me to continue......
Even further back:

Doesnt any of the evidence showing KB's innocence matter?......


I am not jumping on you at all. All I wanted to know was if you knew of some conclusive evidence about Kobe Bryant that showed his innocence as you stated a few posts back. Not stuff his defense thought up aka "the nutty slutty defense". And I wondered if you could post it here. Everything I have read that you have posted about the girl starts with a phrase something like "Bryant's defense attorneys say...." or "according to court documents filed by Pam Mackey..."

So if you can come up with "any of the evidence showing KB's innocence", that is all I wanted to know.

I do not need to know your opinion on whether you think I am angry, whether you think I post too much on this board, whether you think I have a real life or not. Or whether you feel that I need to relax. None of those things are any of your business, or relevant to the question of Kobe's innocence or guilt.

If you have "any of the evidence showing KB's innocence" to post here then feel free, otherwise then just consider the discussion over. I already do.

Jeana (DP)
10-04-2004, 01:33 PM
Come on you two. You're two of my favorite posters. Please don't fight like this. You're never going to get one another to agree with your thoughts on this one. Let's just move on, ok?

VespaElf
10-04-2004, 01:50 PM
Come on you two. You're two of my favorite posters. Please don't fight like this. You're never going to get one another to agree with your thoughts on this one. Let's just move on, ok?
Im trying to Jeana!!!!!!!!!

Bhodirasta
10-04-2004, 03:28 PM
Hi all.
I have posted on this topic several times, and in case you aren't aware of how I feel, I feel that Kobe is a type of professional athlete that I have seen many many many times over. I have worked with athletes my entire life, and have been an athlete my entire life. I also lived in Vail, have many friends that still live there, and have heard about this woman many times over.
Birdie,
I know you say that there is no proof that she was speaking of KBs member, (she was, by the way) but say, if that was indeed true, how would you feel?
Would that change your mind about the alleged rape?

I am a victims advocate for rape, I understand how hard it is to report this attrocity, I understand it all, better than most. My biggest problem, however, is HER. I understand that different people handle rape in different ways (although I have never seen a rape victim go out and have sex right after the incident, I beleive it could happen, and does, INFREQUENTLY) but the speaking about the 'member' just doesn't jive with me. AT ALL.
This information did not come from Mackay. This information came from locals.

I will admit that I am somewhat 'tainted'. I do not beleive it is normal action of a rape victime to party, have sex and discuss penis size right after a rape. I have never personally witnessed any such behaviour, so it is hard for me to understand. But just for arguments sake, say it is indeed normal behaviour to do this... Is it also normal behaviour to come back with a civil suit after the criminal suit went to hell in a hand basket? Is it normal behaviour for the accused to single handedly cause other victims of rape the pain it will now cause them to report this attrocious crime? Is it normal behaviour of a true rape victim to be so selfish as to wreak havoc on the rape shield law?

I beleive that any person that is truly raped, will feel sorry for, and find comfort in, other rape victims. She did the complete OPPOSITE. What do you think about this?
Birdie, you know I respect your opinion, and there is no way I would become 'annoyed' with you or anyone else for taking up for a rape victim. The fact that you think this woman was raped does not upset me at all. We need people like you. It helps balance the unbeleivable disadvantage that all rape victims have.

Bhodi

Jeana (DP)
10-04-2004, 03:41 PM
Strictly as a spectator in all of this, let me just say that I would have to say that for myself, if I were raped, I would rather have my day in court as a witness in a criminal trial than as a plaintiff in a civil case. Even if I didn't think there was a snowball's chance in heck of getting a conviction, I would want to be able to get up on the witness stand and tell the entire world what he did to me. I wouldn't trade that experience for all the money in the world. Even if no one believed me. I would know that I said what I needed to say and told MY story. After that, it would be up to him to answer it.

In case you're wondering, yes, I do think that legitimate victims should be able to sue to monetary damages, but in addition to, NOT in place of, attempting to get a criminal conviction.

Bhodirasta
10-04-2004, 03:57 PM
Strictly as a spectator in all of this, let me just say that I would have to say that for myself, if I were raped, I would rather have my day in court as a witness in a criminal trial than as a plaintiff in a civil case. Even if I didn't think there was a snowball's chance in heck of getting a conviction, I would want to be able to get up on the witness stand and tell the entire world what he did to me. I wouldn't trade that experience for all the money in the world. Even if no one believed me. I would know that I said what I needed to say and told MY story. After that, it would be up to him to answer it.

In case you're wondering, yes, I do think that legitimate victims should be able to sue to monetary damages, but in addition to, NOT in place of, attempting to get a criminal conviction.

Yes Jeanna. This is where I am having trouble. I also beleive they should be able to sue for monetary damages without any caps, but dropping the criminal case and favouring a civil suit?? Pathetic. Many people don't beleive her anyway, but at least with a criminal trial, the 'truth' would become harder to hide, without all the 'ulterior motive' crap.
I have also noticed the quote that Tricia sports about Lin Wood. I am not familiar with this person at all. Can you give me an idea in a nutshell? Why would she choose Wood in your opinion?

Bhodi

Jeana (DP)
10-04-2004, 04:09 PM
Yes Jeanna. This is where I am having trouble. I also beleive they should be able to sue for monetary damages without any caps, but dropping the criminal case and favouring a civil suit?? Pathetic. Many people don't beleive her anyway, but at least with a criminal trial, the 'truth' would become harder to hide, without all the 'ulterior motive' crap.
I have also noticed the quote that Tricia sports about Lin Wood. I am not familiar with this person at all. Can you give me an idea in a nutshell? Why would she choose Wood in your opinion?

Bhodi


Well I don't participate in the JonBenet Ramsey forum a whole lot, but I believe that she and Lin may have some history. LOL Since we know our wonderful leader has nothing to worry about with regard to any slander, Lin and Tricia will probably never meet. You may want to ask her the history there though. I don't want to speak out of turn and don't know the whole story.

Bhodirasta
10-04-2004, 04:20 PM
Well I don't participate in the JonBenet Ramsey forum a whole lot, but I believe that she and Lin may have some history. LOL Since we know our wonderful leader has nothing to worry about with regard to any slander, Lin and Tricia will probably never meet. You may want to ask her the history there though. I don't want to speak out of turn and don't know the whole story.


Lin Wood was involved in the Ramsey case, huh? I should go to some reading...
I am just wondering why this woman would choose Lin Wood, where she is getting the money, and what her 'intentions' are in regards to hiring (her?).

Jeana (DP)
10-04-2004, 04:28 PM
Lin Wood was involved in the Ramsey case, huh? I should go to some reading...
I am just wondering why this woman would choose Lin Wood, where she is getting the money, and what her 'intentions' are in regards to hiring (her?).


Lin has won several large lawsuits in favor of the Ramseys against publishers, I believe. Lin is most likely taking this case on contingency. He'll take most likely 45% (plus expenses) of what (if anything) she gets. The intentions of this women in seeking Lin out for representation are easy - he's the best when it comes to this sort of thing and the "celebrity" factor won't be a distraction.

Sprocket
10-04-2004, 04:32 PM
Imho, somebody else, hooked her up with Lin Wood. I've got a feeling it was probably her first attorney, that brought Lin Wood into this. But I have no "insider" source, to confirm that. :D

With the new information that came out, that Kobe was having an extra marital affair with a woman in NY (for quite some time I understand), this leads me to believe that sex outside of marriage was not a big deal to Kobe. He had a "squeaky clean" image, but, as we often find out, that "prize" inside the cracker jack box, isn't as big as you thought it would be. :D

I think both individuals here, were trying to get something out of each other. Kobe free sex, the accuser, a $$$$$ ride.

In no way, do I think this woman was raped. Her behavior to me, is classic BPD. (jmho, of course.)

Bhodirasta
10-04-2004, 08:21 PM
I also think Sprocket,
that both were out for something for THEMSELVES, and nothing more.
Kobe, like many professional athletes have a sense of grandeur, and I think a lot of this is due to the high places society puts these people in. In this particular instance, Kobe might learn that his sense of grandeur is just that, only a 'sense', but I doubt it.
Next question,
how would a classic BPDer (normally) react to rape?

Sprocket
10-04-2004, 09:38 PM
I also think Sprocket,
that both were out for something for THEMSELVES, and nothing more.
Kobe, like many professional athletes have a sense of grandeur, and I think a lot of this is due to the high places society puts these people in. In this particular instance, Kobe might learn that his sense of grandeur is just that, only a 'sense', but I doubt it.
Next question,
how would a classic BPDer (normally) react to rape?
Hum, that's a good question. Possibly rage. I'd not really thought about that. I just try to be alert to when I'm in the presence of a BPD... so that I can terminate the encounter asap.

Bhodirasta
10-04-2004, 09:52 PM
Hum, that's a good question. Possibly rage. I'd not really thought about that. I just try to be alert to when I'm in the presence of a BPD... so that I can terminate the encounter asap.


Hmmm
Sprocket,
are you in the presence of BPDers a lot? I guess if you know the disease as well as you do, you would be in their presence much more, because you would know what to look for, huh?
Kinda like the phenomena that hides behind something as trivial as seeing more of your type of car after you purchase that car because you notice your car driving down the street...LOL. Catch my wave? I know that sounds crazy and all, but I hope you get my point.
How do you terminate the encounter?

Sprocket
10-04-2004, 11:31 PM
Hmmm
Sprocket,
are you in the presence of BPDers a lot? I guess if you know the disease as well as you do, you would be in their presence much more, because you would know what to look for, huh?
Kinda like the phenomena that hides behind something as trivial as seeing more of your type of car after you purchase that car because you notice your car driving down the street...LOL. Catch my wave? I know that sounds crazy and all, but I hope you get my point.
How do you terminate the encounter?
There are more than you realize, on the net. jmho, of course.

BirdieBoo
10-04-2004, 11:48 PM
Please: Where are you guys finding the content of the cell phone messages? I cannot find anything anywhere stating their content. All I can find is that there were text messages subpoenaed.

Casshew
10-05-2004, 12:16 AM
No flames please... but I saw on a tabloid cover the other day (NE I think) that The accuser is pregnant... sorry don't know her name. If she is pregnant - maybe thats why she dropped the case.

BirdieBoo
10-05-2004, 12:18 AM
No flames please... but I saw on a tabloid cover the other day (NE I think) that The accuser is pregnant... sorry don't know her name. If she is pregnant - maybe thats why she dropped the case.

That's the rumour Cass.

Jeana (DP)
10-05-2004, 09:27 AM
She's supposed to be pregnant by a man she met in rehab who just happens to have Hepatitis-C. This is NOT a woman with enough credibility to sustain a civil case. I think in some ways that Kobe brought this on himself. I honestly don't feel sorry for him in the least. When are these idiots going to realize that if they didn't whip it out each and every chance that presents itself, they would be JUDGMENT PROOF. No sex, no case. PERIOD. If she winds up with a settlement, maybe something will sink into that idiot's head and maybe other married "celebrities" will get a clue.

Bobbisangel
11-02-2004, 05:26 AM
She's only asking for $75000. You can bet your biffy that $75000 would not be near enough to keep me happy if I had been raped.

Then again, if I had been raped you wouldn't find other DNA in my underwear, I wouldn't refuse to testify and I wouldn't drop the case.


I hope she gets a lot more than that. If I had been raped I probably would have dropped the case a long time ago. This gal's rep is totally destroyed..that judge let the defense get away with way to much. I think Pam M is a first class *****. You can bet that gals from now on will think twice before they report a rape. Who would want to get raped again and again by the defense.

Bobbisangel
11-02-2004, 05:35 AM
Kobe was required by the prosecution/"vicitm" to give an apology in order for them to drop the case. That apology was not an admission or indication of guilt.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
I have not heard anything that leads me to believe that Kobe was guilty of raping this girl.

I am sorry but it is very naive to think that the prosecution would not have prosecuted the case if they thought that the girl wasn't telling the truth.


How about innocent until proven guilty for the victim. She has been slaughtered in the media....Pam M. ran the courtroom and the judge had no balls. Pam Mc must have said that gals name 10 times during one hearing and did she get in trouble....heck no. I say the gal had a lot of courage to hang in there as long as she did. She called it quits when the court reporters emiled transcripts about her to the media....2-3 times....a mistake...hardly.
That judge should have removed himself from the case. What a worthless piece of poop.

Seeker
11-03-2004, 01:04 PM
Documents unsealed. http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~28682~2506915,00.html

Former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman said that the "tremendous number" of defense experts offers an additional explanation why the case against Bryant was dismissed.

"It tells me the defense was going to win and that's why the prosecution and the accuser folded their cards," Silverman said.

Also from RMN. (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3297788,00.html)

Lists of exhibits, inventories of physical evidence included

phone text messages for her ex-boyfriend, Matt Herr.

DNA swabs from her friend,

there is significant overlap between the Bryant team list and that of the prosecution.

Defense exhibits not duplicative of the prosecution list include 15 identified only as "Calgary photograph."

Documents released by the Eagle County District Attorney's Office last month confirmed that Faber made a trip to Calgary, Canada, in the summer of 2003 after Bryant's arrest, where she behaved publicly in a way that made some question whether she had really been victimized.

Listed by the defense is the March 8 issue of the Globe supermarket weekly, which pictured Faber partying during that Calgary trip, with the headline, "Kobe Accuser Goes WILD!"

exhibits pertaining to what prior defense motions identified as her suicide attempts on Feb. 23, 2003, in Fort Collins, and May 30, 2003, in Eagle


Official docs here. (http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/courtdocs.htm )
Even the attorney of record (http://www.courts.state.co.us/exec/media/eagle/07-04/noticeofwithdrawal.pdf) withdrew?

Hopefully all the info will be made public after the civil case.

VespaElf
11-03-2004, 02:18 PM
When you see what was going to be allowed in I can't imagine how the Pro's thought they could have pulled it off!


Suicide Attempts -allowed

Pictures of Her Partying in Canada AFTER getting 20 grand from the State due to "trauma"-allowed

Pictures Taken From Hotel Camera(Wonder what they revealed!)-allowed


Text Messages-allowed

Her Handwritten Letters to Friend(can only imagine what they said!)-allowed


I could go on and on *but* just wait until they actually release the docs.............I really belive it's going to change some minds.
I also think it's safe to say that since all this and more will be in the Civial case she won't get a dime!!!

Seeker
11-03-2004, 03:31 PM
Messie, someone who is in the know said something about the civil case possibly being withdrawn due to her retracting quite a bit of her initial allegations to the DA's. I don't know if that's true, but I do know how L. Wood operates and he NEVER asks for less than several million. Something's weird with this one.

I, for one, would love to see the content of those text messages to quell, or substantiate the rumors that they (Kate Faber and her ex-bf) schemed to go after Kobe for money.

VespaElf
11-04-2004, 09:02 AM
If Team Kobe didn't feel they had a strong defense they wouldve pulled an OReilly by now and settled.........They haven't and that speaks volumes to me.

The instant I get my hands on any docs they will be posted ASAP!!!!!!!


She had no credibility to begin with ,imo,but then to get Lin Wood behind her?
She might as well have come out and admitted she lied..........I think
Johnnie Cochran has more credibility than Lin Wood!!!!!!!!!