Unsolved 1999 Murder

[Dark Knight]

Maybe someone here can help us finally solve this case. The body was found not too far from the radio station where I work and I was there when it all went down, and tried my best, along with our news director and many others, to try and solve it. I'd love ANY info I can pass along to authorities, including maybe what in the heck the tattoos or jewelry might mean, if anything, and I can fill you in on details of the investigation beyond what the FBI is listing here:

http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/seekinfo/janedoeindiana.htm

The place she was found is now a golf course, except the exact spot was undeveloped. It had been a farm field, and the guy who found here while plowing his field later died of a heart attack also while plowing the field! *makes spooky noises* lol

PS: I do remember one of the victim's tattoos supposedly meaning something about living on the fringe of society.

Thanks!!!

[WasBlind]

Are you with Doe Network, Dark Knight? I work with several on their team.

Sadly, many are never reported missing, and this is the result. Education is so important, and everyone should report their missing loved ones, even if they are adults, or else the NCIC system will never work. Also many states have a shortage of persons to check NCIC files daily, and some states do not even have a database. *sigh*

Also, more volunteers are needed to match Does across the nation, as many go unmatched for years. Case in point, Joseph Morse went unidentified for over four years, even though he was found the day after he went missing.
http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/showthread.php?t=7025

Welcome to WS and please join us in the missing forum, sometime
http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

You never know, you may recognize one and reunite a family!

Thank you for caring about the missing, Dark Knight and God bless you!
E-mail me if you wish to get updates on the missing, or my newsletters.
Let's hope someone see this post and can identify this lady.

With love and HOPE, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com

[Bibliophile]

How far was the body from a road? Do the authorities know how she was dumped? How easy was the site to get to from I-69? Nearest truck stop?

The tatoo was obviously crudely done and its a been popular among Hispanics for many years. Since she is listed as "white" I wonder if she once was married to a Hispanic or had a Hispanic boyfriend - maybe in the CA or TX area.

Did the autospy provide any clues? Condition of liver?

[Dark Knight]

Are you with Doe Network, Dark Knight? I work with several on their team.

Sadly, many are never reported missing, and this is the result. Education is so important, and everyone should report their missing loved ones, even if they are adults, or else the NCIC system will never work. Also many states have a shortage of persons to check NCIC files daily, and some states do not even have a database. *sigh*

Also, more volunteers are needed to match Does across the nation, as many go unmatched for years. Case in point, Joseph Morse went unidentified for over four years, even though he was found the day after he went missing.
http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/showthread.php?t=7025

Welcome to WS and please join us in the missing forum, sometime
http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

You never know, you may recognize one and reunite a family!

Thank you for caring about the missing, Dark Knight and God bless you!
E-mail me if you wish to get updates on the missing, or my newsletters.
Let's hope someone see this post and can identify this lady.

With love and HOPE, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com
No, I am not with the Doe Network. Maybe you can post the info for those of us on the board who aren't familiar with it but might like to join. I am always willing to help find the missing, plus justice for the dead. I'll also likely be in contact about the other info you offered. Thank you very much for your help!!!!!

[Dark Knight]

How far was the body from a road? Do the authorities know how she was dumped? How easy was the site to get to from I-69? Nearest truck stop?

The tatoo was obviously crudely done and its a been popular among Hispanics for many years. Since she is listed as "white" I wonder if she once was married to a Hispanic or had a Hispanic boyfriend - maybe in the CA or TX area.

Did the autospy provide any clues? Condition of liver?We have a growing Hispanic popullation in my area, actually. That's the first time I have heard of the tattoo mentioned in association with them.

The body is within less than a mile of one, and probably more, off-ramps of I-69, and not far from the off-ramps of the Indiana/Michigan toll road. Police speculated that she may have been a prostitute due to the tattoo being associated with criminal elements and the fact there are many truck stops in the area due to the semi traffic that comes through. However, I question that she came from far away, as the bra was still around her neck. Why would someone strangle her, then drive the entire way with the bra still around her neck? And why leave it that way, then?The body itself was well off the any road, though, was was severely decomposed (I saw some of the pictures, being in the media.) They got the drawing only after the FBI in Washington made a clay model of her head and theorized how she looked alive.

The autopsy was inconclusive on most everything due to the state of decomposition, the liver may not have been viable even. Why do you ask of the liver, I am curious.

Good point about the tattoo, it does appear to be homemade, doesn't it?

[Dark Knight]

Just wanted to try the power of the bump. :p

[WasBlind]

http://doenetwork.org/

This one will not be listed there, yet, as they take 9 years and older as of now.

Please contact me via e-mail to get started working on this, please sir.

Many thanks, Lanie
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com

[Bibliophile]

We have a growing Hispanic popullation in my area, actually. That's the first time I have heard of the tattoo mentioned in association with them.

Yes, it was common among Hispanic youth, even 35 -45 years ago. The term "pachuco" comes from a nickname for the city of El Paso, which was often referred to as "El Pachuco" or simply "El Chuco". Groups of youth from El Paso migrated to Los Angeles in the 1930s and they were referred to there as pachucos. There are some reports that the tatoos are common among gang members. However, if this is a woman 40 to 50 years old, I doubt that she was in a gang. It's more likely (though not absolute) that she received the tatoo in her younger days and that's why I mentioned CA and TX, both of which had higher Hispanic populations in the late 70's. She may have originated from an area where the tatoos were more common.

The body is within less than a mile of one, and probably more, off-ramps of I-69, and not far from the off-ramps of the Indiana/Michigan toll road.

I'm wondering how easy it would have been to dump her from a car and if the locale was a place that could be easily found by non-residents or those unfamilar with the area.

If its a remote location, its probably a local perp.

Police speculated that she may have been a prostitute due to the tattoo being associated with criminal elements and the fact there are many truck stops in the area due to the semi traffic that comes through. However, I question that she came from far away, as the bra was still around her neck. Why would someone strangle her, then drive the entire way with the bra still around her neck?

She could have been picked up, murdered in one location and transported there to conceal her body. She may have very well been a prostitute or vagabond type that goes from place to place. Sadly, no one may be looking for her.

Most likely scenario is that she was undressed when the murder occurred and the killer merely used the bra because it was convenient to strangle her. He probably then put her in a vehicle and took her body to the site where she was found. He made no other efforts to conceal it because he just wanted to get out of there as quickly as possible. Probably a disorganized killing.

Bras are commonly used for strangulation in sex murders.

They got the drawing only after the FBI in Washington made a clay model of her head and theorized how she looked alive.

So its probably not a very good likeness.

The autopsy was inconclusive on most everything due to the state of decomposition, the liver may not have been viable even. Why do you ask of the liver, I am curious.

It would tell a lot about her life style; drug and alcohol abuse.

[Dark Knight]

Actually, a local TV crew went to the FBI office when they did this, and said that their recreations are amazingly close to what they did look like! (based on cases that had been solved as a result.) So I think it may be reasonably close.

Interesting info on the tattoo, thanks! I agree that it is most likely that no one is looking for her.

There was a LOT of interest in her watch and possibly the other jewelery, but not real sure why. Any ideas?

Thanks, again, for the help!!

PS: I just a bit more research on the pachuco cross tattoo, and the hispanic gang members that wear it are supposed to tattoo it in the web of their hands between their finger and thumb, and hers was on her upper arm. And as you said, she was supposed to be white.

[Bibliophile]

Actually, a local TV crew went to the FBI office when they did this, and said that their recreations are amazingly close to what they did look like! (based on cases that had been solved as a result.) So I think it may be reasonably close.

It very well may be. Let me preface this with I am not at all knocking them as a tool in identification - they can be very valuable. However, the likenesses are often most apparent retrospectively. For a Doe that didn't have close ties to a community or family, someone who could easily pick up the subtle nuances of her features, it's just more difficult.

There was a LOT of interest in her watch and possibly the other jewelery, but not real sure why. Any ideas?

It's hard to say for the photos. I get the feeling that the ring was something she had had for a while. It would be good to know the manufacturer of the watch, area of distribution, etc..

It's just hard to know without more details, so I'm just thinking out loud here, I may be totally off base.

One thing I am not clear on - was there any type of road near the body, dirt, gravel or otherwise, that someone could have driven a vehicle on? If so, was there a clearly visable entrance to this road from a main road? Would someone have to know the area well to get to the location where the body was found?

[Dark Knight]

I think it is GREAT that you are trying for all different angles and asking all kinds of great questions! That's the only way to solve cases like this, and I appreciate the effort! I sent to info on the cross to the sheriff, just in case they weren't aware of it's history. I'll let you know if I hear back.

The body was quite a ways off of a country road, if I recall, in a farmers field, which is how it was found, by the farmer plowing the field. He thought it was a deer carcass, I remember him saying.

[Bibliophile]

If it was quite a distance to the nearest road, has there been any speculation on how the body got there?

How accessible would it be by 4WD? Or a farm "John Deere" all terrain vehicle?

Again, I am just guessing - but providing there were no access roads and from what you have written I would guess it was a local perp - someone who knew the land, perhaps someone who had hunted on it before ... maybe a near neighbor or someone in or close to the owner's family.

[Dark Knight]

http://doenetwork.org/

This one will not be listed there, yet, as they take 9 years and older as of now.

Please contact me via e-mail to get started working on this, please sir.


Actually, they took my submission because for unexplained deaths the criteria was only 2002 or older! Woo hoo! Thanks for the tip! We'll see if I hear back from them.

[chocolatechance]

My husband lived in Angola for a few years, and he told me that the town itself has a small population, but there are a lot of lakes surrounded by summer cottages, and the population grows a lot during the summer. I wonder if she could've been murdered by an abusive husband/boyfriend vacationing in the area, or picked up somewhere by a lone guy going to spend some time at his cottage?

Given that many think the killer was familiar with the area, and the timing of the crime, (about 5 weeks before september), it might make sense that one of the vacationers had something to do with this.

Was her picture published much in the Indy area?

[Dark Knight]

My husband lived in Angola for a few years, and he told me that the town itself has a small population, but there are a lot of lakes surrounded by summer cottages, and the population grows a lot during the summer. I wonder if she could've been murdered by an abusive husband/boyfriend vacationing in the area, or picked up somewhere by a lone guy going to spend some time at his cottage?

Given that many think the killer was familiar with the area, and the timing of the crime, (about 5 weeks before september), it might make sense that one of the vacationers had something to do with this.

Was her picture published much in the Indy area?

Hmmm, that's a very interesting point. You are correct, Steuben County has 101 lakes, so our population swells to over 100,000 on summer weekends, and 2-3 times that on a holiday weekend (July 4 was about 4 weeks prior to the finding, actually.)

The picture was on Ft. Wayne television both originally and in a follow up about a year or two ago, which is where many of our tourists come from. I don't know about Indy TV or newspapers, though.

Thanks for the input! A terrific theory!

[Dark Knight]

The doe network has added this case to it's files and have added a little bit more information after contacting investigators.

Go to www.doenetwork.com (http://www.doenetwork.com) and search for Case File 180UFIN

MAJOR thanks to WasBlind for her help!!!!!

[WasBlind]

Here is the direct link

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/180ufin.html

Special thanks to Tracie and all our friends at DOE.
God bless you all for the selfless work you do.

With HOPE, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com

[Dark Knight]

Here is the direct link

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/180ufin.html

Special thanks to Tracie and all our friends at DOE.
God bless you all for the selfless work you do.

With HOPE, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com
Thanks, again!

[deputylinda]

hi Dark Knight...since you asked me to read and comment, i will offer ONLY MY OPINION/EDUCATED GUESS. she was a hooker/hitch-hiker in all likelihood, and frequented truck stops. she was the victim of a common garden-variety American phenomena...the traveling/trucker serial killer. there are so many out there it would scare the pants off you if you knew how many. they work with impunity and vanish into the night. it has all the earmarks. and there was no connection between them because he did not attempt to bury her or remove identifying jewelry. these guys do it because they can and because it's easy pickings. they know they won't be caught. it's 'fun', spices up life on the otherwise boring road. JMO :twocents:

[messiecake]

hi Dark Knight...since you asked me to read and comment, i will offer ONLY MY OPINION/EDUCATED GUESS. she was a hooker/hitch-hiker in all likelihood, and frequented truck stops. she was the victim of a common garden-variety American phenomena...the traveling/trucker serial killer. there are so many out there it would scare the pants off you if you knew how many. they work with impunity and vanish into the night. it has all the earmarks. and there was no connection between them because he did not attempt to bury her or remove identifying jewelry. these guys do it because they can and because it's easy pickings. they know they won't be caught. it's 'fun', spices up life on the otherwise boring road. JMO :twocents:


I agree 100% Linda.

I know there are some honest,decent truckers out there * BUT* there is also a very large,very scary and violent trucker subculture.
Ive heard about unspeakable things(worse than that movie"Breakdown") which occur way more than most people know because they lead this nomadic life crisscrossing the country.
I can't put it better than DL's " they work with impunity".

[Dark Knight]

hi Dark Knight...since you asked me to read and comment, i will offer ONLY MY OPINION/EDUCATED GUESS. she was a hooker/hitch-hiker in all likelihood, and frequented truck stops. she was the victim of a common garden-variety American phenomena...the traveling/trucker serial killer. there are so many out there it would scare the pants off you if you knew how many. they work with impunity and vanish into the night. it has all the earmarks. and there was no connection between them because he did not attempt to bury her or remove identifying jewelry. these guys do it because they can and because it's easy pickings. they know they won't be caught. it's 'fun', spices up life on the otherwise boring road. JMO :twocents:
Thanks DL for taking the time to read it and analyze it. But what a depressing conclusion, as I assume that would mean the odds of solving the crime, especially 5 years after the fact, is almost zero, correct?

[Dark Knight]

I agree 100% Linda.

I know there are some honest,decent truckers out there * BUT* there is also a very large,very scary and violent trucker subculture.
Ive heard about unspeakable things(worse than that movie"Breakdown") which occur way more than most people know because they lead this nomadic life crisscrossing the country.
I can't put it better than DL's " they work with impunity".
How depressing. But thanks for the input! And nice to meet ya!

[deputylinda]

Thanks DL for taking the time to read it and analyze it. But what a depressing conclusion, as I assume that would mean the odds of solving the crime, especially 5 years after the fact, is almost zero, correct?
less than zero. these guys pick females who are unlikely to ever be missed by anyone, the throwaways of society. no discussions on the news except locally, briefly. oh, the tattoo...i can almost guarantee she got it in jail. reality can be depressing, i know. but this female also made some choices for herself along the way. not blaming the victim! but our lifestyle can place us in harm's way.

[Dark Knight]

less than zero. these guys pick females who are unlikely to ever be missed by anyone, the throwaways of society. no discussions on the news except locally, briefly. oh, the tattoo...i can almost guarantee she got it in jail. reality can be depressing, i know. but this female also made some choices for herself along the way. not blaming the victim! but our lifestyle can place us in harm's way.Well this got plenty of regional attention, not just local, even with follow ups a year or so, ago, plus the FBI got involved, but it sure looks like no one ever looked for her.

Why do I remember investigators being so interested in her Lucky Star watch? I remember searching the net about it, too? Anything ring a bell, there?

[deputylinda]

Well this got plenty of regional attention, not just local, even with follow ups a year or so, ago, plus the FBI got involved, but it sure looks like no one ever looked for her.

Why do I remember investigators being so interested in her Lucky Star watch? I remember searching the net about it, too? Anything ring a bell, there?
when the feebs (FBI) get involved it means they suspect interstate transport of victim, they never involve themselves in local murders. so it bears out...they suspect trucker/traveling serial killer. watch rings no bells for me. but i am not out there.

[gardenmom]

If she were in prison when she got the tatoo maybe the place to start is by sending her photo around to area prisons to see if someone recognizes her. It's probably hard, though, if you don't know where she's from. Start close and spread out. I think it's cool you are interested in this and want to help.

[deputylinda]

If she were in prison when she got the tatoo maybe the place to start is by sending her photo around to area prisons to see if someone recognizes her. It's probably hard, though, if you don't know where she's from. Start close and spread out. I think it's cool you are interested in this and want to help.
hi gardenmom, lovely lady! i said jail , not prison, and there are a million jails. the "photo" is just a reconstruction. she looks like a thousand others. without prints to submit to NCIC it's pretty useless. and knowing who she is might be nice if someone cared about her and was searching...but won't connect her with her killer... because she did not know her killer. gruesome facts that most nice people like you don't encounter. thankfully. xoxoxox

[Dark Knight]

Thanks both gardenmom and DL. I realize she was likely a prostitute or had some other criminal history, but she is still a person, so that is why I wish it could be solved.

Her poor dental history was something I found interesting. Sure made it sound like she was a transient of some sort. Although that wouldn't do much for her business if she WAS a hooker. And a previously broken nose, too, possibly from a bad encounter or relationship.

[deputylinda]

Thanks both gardenmom and DL. I realize she was likely a prostitute or had some other criminal history, but she is still a person, so that is why I wish it could be solved.

Her poor dental history was something I found interesting. Sure made it sound like she was a transient of some sort. Although that wouldn't do much for her business if she WAS a hooker. And a previously broken nose, too, possibly from a bad encounter or relationship.
um, er, hmm, how can i put this delicately...no teeth means higher price, by about a buck. sorry. i had to say it. i always get myself in trouble. :doh:

[Jeana (DP)]

Here is the direct link

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/180ufin.html

Special thanks to Tracie and all our friends at DOE.
God bless you all for the selfless work you do.

With HOPE, Lanie
Help For The Missing
HelpForTheMissing@yahoo.com

Thanks Lanie!! That other link took me to a website for black women!! LOL Was the bra the only clothing of any kind found with her?

[amandab]

Her poor dental history was something I found interesting. Sure made it sound like she was a transient of some sort.

This reminded me immediately of one of my relatives. While not a transient by any means, she has a host of mental illnesses, and her teeth (among other things) have paid the price. Might be another angle to consider...

[WasBlind]

For amandab

:clap:

[Dark Knight]

Thanks Lanie!! That other link took me to a website for black women!! LOL Was the bra the only clothing of any kind found with her?
Yes, besides the jewelry.

[Jeana (DP)]

Yes, besides the jewelry.


Thanks. Do you know if there was any "animal activity" on her (i.e., were bones missing or scattered around)?

[Dark Knight]

Thanks. Do you know if there was any "animal activity" on her (i.e., were bones missing or scattered around)?I don't recall. We have plenty of scavangers in these parts, so it'd surprise me if there wasn't some. The pictures I saw were only of parts of her body, so hard to tell. Arms and hands where intact, anyways. What did you have in mind?

[Dark Knight]

This reminded me immediately of one of my relatives. While not a transient by any means, she has a host of mental illnesses, and her teeth (among other things) have paid the price. Might be another angle to consider...
Good insight, thanks!

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't recall. We have plenty of scavangers in these parts, so it'd surprise me if there wasn't some. The pictures I saw were only of parts of her body, so hard to tell. Arms and hands where intact, anyways. What did you have in mind?


Just trying to get the full picture. I don't want to get too graphic, but I don't think hands are arms are the first places that animals would spend time on.

[sarainak]

Hi, I'm still kinda new at the site, but I love a mystery. This is a "doe" that has been seen quite a bit. I have wondered if what kind of leads or follow-ups they may have with the tat and jewelry.

Is it possible, that the watch could have come from the "Lucky Star" casino? The casinos I have been to have promo gifts like watches. The Lucky Star casino is in Clinton, OK and Concho, OK. These are enterprised by the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes. Does anyone know what the picture on the watch face is?

The tattoo seems to be Mexican in origin, but maybe it has nothing to do with in relations to a Hispanic spouse or gang relations. The tattoo/symbol can be seen on the hand of a scene of art on Frank Zappa's album, "One size fits all".

It is referred as symbol that a Mexican American or Roman Catholic may have tatooed on his hand(on the album it's located on the hand).
The meaning of the symbol in this reference would be a cross with the three lines representing the Holy Trinity-The Father, The Son, the Holy Ghost. This cross also appears on the cover of Zappa's album of "Absolutely Free".

So, could be a possiblity that the tattoo, could have a religious meaning for her or could she have been a fan of Frank Zappa?

[Dark Knight]

Hi, I'm still kinda new at the site, but I love a mystery. This is a "doe" that has been seen quite a bit. I have wondered if what kind of leads or follow-ups they may have with the tat and jewelry.

Is it possible, that the watch could have come from the "Lucky Star" casino? The casinos I have been to have promo gifts like watches. The Lucky Star casino is in Clinton, OK and Concho, OK. These are enterprised by the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes. Does anyone know what the picture on the watch face is?

The tattoo seems to be Mexican in origin, but maybe it has nothing to do with in relations to a Hispanic spouse or gang relations. The tattoo/symbol can be seen on the hand of a scene of art on Frank Zappa's album, "One size fits all".

It is referred as symbol that a Mexican American or Roman Catholic may have tatooed on his hand(on the album it's located on the hand).
The meaning of the symbol in this reference would be a cross with the three lines representing the Holy Trinity-The Father, The Son, the Holy Ghost. This cross also appears on the cover of Zappa's album of "Absolutely Free".

So, could be a possiblity that the tattoo, could have a religious meaning for her or could she have been a fan of Frank Zappa?Hi Sarainak! I think the casino idea is a GREAT lead, their logo is quite similar to the watch face, from what I can tell! I may pass that along to LE. The extra info on the pachuco cross is also tremendous!! Thank you so much!!! Have you seen this "doe" in the news, before?

I tried blowing up and zooming in on the watch face and back with no luck. But the logo on back does seem similar to the casino's, as I said. Maybe an old logo of theirs?

[Dark Knight]

Ok, read this story, compare it to the facts in our Jane Doe case, along with the information that websleuthers have posted, and tell me just how similar this sounds:

Sam Lewin 9/21/2004

Police are describing a Nebraska man arrested for rape as a “person of interest” in a series of slayings in the South and Midwest, with American Indian women a disproportionately high number of the victims.

Carl Lawson, a 32-year-old Lincoln resident, was taken into custody this month. A trucker, Lawson faces rape, kidnapping and assault with intent to kill charges stemming from the alleged abduction of a woman from a truck stop in Oklahoma County, Oklahoma. The 51-year-old woman reported to investigators that Lawson told her "you can bite me, scratch. The first three or four I killed. It bothered me, but I kinda like it now."

She says she was raped and beaten, eventually passing out during the assault. When she came to she was on the side of an interstate. A passing motorist picked her up.

Lawson has denied the accusations, saying he struck the woman following a dispute over drugs and money.

His protest aside, officials with both the Oklahoma City Police Department and the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation say they are looking at Lawson in connection with a series of unsolved slayings that have baffled investigators, a case so complicated that officials are not sure how many victims there are or even how many killers are involved.

One thing is certain: many of the known victims were Native American and most are believed to have worked as prostitutes. Casey Jo Pipestem is one example. A passing motorist discovered the nude body of Pipestem, 19, on January 31 in the Texas town of Grapevine. Officials say she was choked to death and her body then dumped from a bridge. Pipestem was a member of the Seminole Tribe.

At least four victims were last seen at a truck stop, and at least three were strangled. Some were also sexually assaulted. The bodies were found near highways and creeks in Arkansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Texas and Indiana.

Not all suspected victims of the killer have been identified. Police are still looking for help in learning the name of a woman found dead on Oct. 15 of last year in Gray County, Texas. She is described as an American Indian about 40 years old, about 5 feet, 6 inches tall and 140 pounds. She had black hair and brown eyes and was last seen wearing a man's plaid shirt and tan slacks the day before at a truck stop in Sayre, Oklahoma. Witnesses recall that she was looking for a ride.

The most recent killing appears to be Jennifer Hyman, 24, of Oklahoma City, last seen at an Oklahoma City truck stop. Hyman, a prostitute, was found nude and strangled below a Tallahatchie River bridge near Oxford, Miss. on Aug. 20.

Lawson’s home in Lincoln has been searched and some items seized. His bail is currently set at $3 million.

[gardenmom]

Well, it certainly sounds like you could be onto something here. Have you forwarded this information to authoritites. Is there DNA evidense that was collected that can be compared? Good job!

[Love_Mama]

Hi.......just finished reading this thread and think that Linda is probably right!
I had no idea that there are Truckers...........who do this kind of thing...don't know much about trucker's at all.

Also......haven't heard the word "pachuco" since the early fifties when I was in High School. Like El Paso, I too live on the Mexican border and Mexican's were alway's call "pachucos"......and they were the one's who hung out together seldom making friend's with the other kids. They were the "tough' guys.

Heck, I never heard of a gang in High School but that was so many year's ago. I'm sure they did have gang's, just never heard about them. I granduated from San Diego High School and it was a real mixture of White, Hispanic, Black.......and more so than any other High School here.

Whether or not she was a prostitute or not.......I sure hope they can identify her.

xxxxxxxxxxxoooooo
mama

[Dark Knight]

Well, it certainly sounds like you could be onto something here. Have you forwarded this information to authoritites. Is there DNA evidense that was collected that can be compared? Good job!
Thanks! Yes, I faxed the info to LE last night. Haven't heard anything from them, so hopefully they got it.

[gardenmom]

I just heard about his arrest on court tv and they did say that they would be testing his DNA to unsolved cases. Hopefully your victim will be itentified or at least her killer will be caught.

[Dark Knight]

The Detective with the Indiana State Police who is handling this case was given all the information I posted about regarding the alleged serial killer trucker that was arrested and the similarities in the cases, plus the Lucky Star watch connection. The officer I gave it to found it VERY interesting, and said it might just be the suspect! Praise the Lord if he is!

I will let y'all know what becomes of it, if anything. Thanks for ALL the great tips and input! It is VERY appreciated!

Justice always!!!! :)

[WasBlind]

B-U-M-P

Prayers for identification and answers for her family.
With love and HOPE, Lanie

[Trino]

It would seem that tracing the watch's origin might provide some info about where she came from or where she's been. It doesn't seem that difficult to do with today's technology.

[mysteriew]

The most recent killing appears to be Jennifer Hyman, 24, of Oklahoma City, last seen at an Oklahoma City truck stop. Hyman, a prostitute, was found nude and strangled below a Tallahatchie River bridge near Oxford, Miss. on Aug.

Authorities say John Williams[pictured] and Rachel Cumberland[pictured] of Carthage, Mississippi, have pleaded guilty in the kidnapping and death of a Mississippi woman and are suspects in the truck stop killings. The two are being held without bond.

Williams and Cumberland are due in court next week on kidnapping and murder charges in the death of Jennifer Hyman of Oklahoma City. Hyman's body was found August 20th, 2003, in Lafayette County, Tennessee. She had been strangled.

Mississippi Public Safety Commissioner George Phillips says he can't say they were responsible for all the killings of the truck stop prostitutes, but he says lawmen believe there is a link.

http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=86366

[mysteriew]

"I wouldn't go so far as to say that they were responsible for all of those murders, but we do believe that there is a link," Mississippi Commissioner of Public Safety George Phillips said Friday at a news conference in Oxford.

Law enforcement officials from five states, including Mississippi, have been investigating killings that date back to 2003 in which truck stops were the common thread.

Authorities said six of seven victims included in the investigation were prostitutes. The prostitutes were found nude or partially clothed.

At least four victims were last seen at a truck stop, and at least three were strangled, authorities said. The bodies were found near highways and creeks in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Texas and Mississippi.

"We are exploring the possibilities of unsolved murders," Phillips said.

http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/local/12090442.htm

[mysteriew]

One thing is certain: many of the known victims were Native American and most are believed to have worked as prostitutes. Casey Jo Pipestem is one example. A passing motorist discovered the nude body of Pipestem, 19, on January 31 in the Texas town of Grapevine. Officials say she was choked to death and her body then dumped from a bridge. Pipestem was a member of the Seminole Tribe.

At least four victims were last seen at a truck stop, and at least three were strangled. Some were also sexually assaulted. The bodies were found near highways and creeks in Arkansas, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Texas and Indiana

A Mississippi long-haul truck driver and his girlfriend emerged as suspects Friday in the January 2004 slaying of Casey Jo Pipestem, a 19-year-old prostitute whose body was found in Grapevine.

The couple, who have been in Mississippi jails nearly a year, are also suspected in the slayings of women who were kidnapped from truck stops in various parts of the country, tortured and raped, police said.

"We are very optimistic we have identified the people responsible for the death of Casey Jo Pipestem," Grapevine police Sgt. Bob Murphy said Friday.

John Robert Williams, 29, and his girlfriend, Rachel Cumberland, 36, pleaded guilty Tuesday to charges in connection with the slaying of a Mississippi woman kidnapped from a gambling resort.

Ted Underwood of Seminole, Okla., Pipestem's uncle, said his family was planning a February memorial service after Grapevine Detective Cpl. Larry Hallmark said he had few leads. But Hallmark said producers of the television show America's Most Wanted wanted to attend the service.

The June 4 episode generated about 70 tips, and one from a relative of Williams' helped Grapevine police connect Pipestem's death to the couple.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/12094551.htm

[Dark Knight]

A Mississippi long-haul truck driver and his girlfriend emerged as suspects Friday in the January 2004 slaying of Casey Jo Pipestem, a 19-year-old prostitute whose body was found in Grapevine.

The couple, who have been in Mississippi jails nearly a year, are also suspected in the slayings of women who were kidnapped from truck stops in various parts of the country, tortured and raped, police said.

"We are very optimistic we have identified the people responsible for the death of Casey Jo Pipestem," Grapevine police Sgt. Bob Murphy said Friday.

John Robert Williams, 29, and his girlfriend, Rachel Cumberland, 36, pleaded guilty Tuesday to charges in connection with the slaying of a Mississippi woman kidnapped from a gambling resort.

Ted Underwood of Seminole, Okla., Pipestem's uncle, said his family was planning a February memorial service after Grapevine Detective Cpl. Larry Hallmark said he had few leads. But Hallmark said producers of the television show America's Most Wanted wanted to attend the service.

The June 4 episode generated about 70 tips, and one from a relative of Williams' helped Grapevine police connect Pipestem's death to the couple.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/12094551.htm
Wow!!!! The similarities are amazing, including the casino connection. I feel that my Jane Does Lucky Star watch is from the Oklahoma casino. I need to find someone in OK to send the link from our Jane Doe to them and ask them to look into it. Local LE haven't said a word about the evidence I sent them last year, so who knows if they ever took it seriously, despite always telling the media how much they want to solve it. But LE in OK might be even more interested. Thanks for the info!!!!!

[mysteriew]

In Oklahoma, authorities said investigators plan to travel to Mississippi to question Williams, said Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation.

"This is very encouraging for OSBI," Brown said. "We're hopeful this man can give us some answers to the cases we're investigating from Oklahoma and others."

Authorities believe more than a single individual is responsible for the multistate string of killings.

"We've never thought it was just one person," she said.

Officials in Yukon, Okla., on the western edge of the Oklahoma City metropolitan area, are considering charges against the pair in the kidnapping and murder of Samantha Patrick, 22, of Oklahoma City.

On Tuesday, Williams pleaded guilty in Neshoba County Circuit Court to the kidnapping and murder of Nikki Hill, 28, of Shuqulak. Her body was found July 18, 2004, off a Neshoba County road near Mississippi 16 West in Philadelphia. She appeared to have been shot several times.

Williams was sentenced to life plus 20 years on the charges. Cumberland on Tuesday pleaded guilty to manslaughter in Hill's death and received a 20-year sentence, Phillips said.

Phillips said Williams was arrested in Pearl on Aug. 17, 2004, by Mississippi Bureau of Investigation agents and Neshoba County deputies. Cumberland was arrested shortly before then in Pearl, authorities say.

http://www.picayuneitem.com/articles/2005/07/10/news/12slaying.txt

[Richard]

I wonder if these murders and disappearances might be related to the Rosa Doe case? See separate thread this forum...

--------------------------------------------------------------
Unidentified White Female AKA: Rosa Doe
The victim was discovered on May 21, 2003 in Northern Hancock County, Mississippi
Estimated Date of Death: 3 days - 3 weeks
Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 32 - 42 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5’1” - 5’4".
Dentals: Extensive Dental work including crowns and porcelain veneers.
Clothing: Her clothing had been burned off. Jewerly: two gold bands on her right hand, and on her left thumb, she wore a silver-tone “heart” shaped ring with a hollowed-out center.
AKA: Rosa Doe
Case History
The victim was located in the Nasa Buffer Zone area of Northern Hancock County, Mississippi on May 21, 2003.
Investigators believe it is possible that she was a transient & this was a drug deal gone bad. The area is known to have transients and crack addicts. She had been seen at truck stops around the I-10 & I-12 area of Louisiana. Unlike most addicts, at one point in her life, she had spent a lot of money on dental work including crowns and porcelain veneers.
It is possible that she was killed either in Louisiana or Pearl River County, MS and was brought to Santa Rosa for disposal.
Three possible suspects have been interviewed regarding the death of "Rosa Doe" , but no charges have been made against anyone yet.
The Doe Network: Case File 414UFMS
Agency Case Number: 03-07192
NCIC Number: U-350004590
If you have any information about this case please contact: Hancock County Sheriff's Office, Investigator Rita Blaize-Watson 228-467-0325
Source Information:
Hancock County Sheriff's Office
Link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/414ufms.html

[gatetrekker44]

it does not appear to be something that was mass-produced. Rather, something that was hand-crafted-possibly on an Indian reservation. I wear a lot of silver/turquoise jewelry, and the designs appear to be American Indian influenced. It also appears that she had the ring a long time-since silver is a "soft" metal, prolonged wear of silver rings tends to make them take on the individual shape of the person's finger. Has anyone tried showing the ring to an American Indian? They may be able to shed some light on some of the symbols on the ring.


Bring Maura home!

[Dark Knight]

it does not appear to be something that was mass-produced. Rather, something that was hand-crafted-possibly on an Indian reservation. I wear a lot of silver/turquoise jewelry, and the designs appear to be American Indian influenced. It also appears that she had the ring a long time-since silver is a "soft" metal, prolonged wear of silver rings tends to make them take on the individual shape of the person's finger. Has anyone tried showing the ring to an American Indian? They may be able to shed some light on some of the symbols on the ring.


Bring Maura home!
Thanks for the terrific insight!!!! Much appreciated.

Since I need to e-mail the link and info, I am having trouble finding the right authorities in Oklahoma that even HAVE e-mails. It's driving me batty, lol!

[mysteriew]

At least eight other similar murders are being investigated to see if they can be linked to the pair, and Oklahoma authorities have said they will travel to Mississippi to question Williams.

A date for the Lafayette County case has not been set.

http://www.djournal.com/pages/story.asp?ID=197198&pub=1&div=News

[mysteriew]

Thanks for the terrific insight!!!! Much appreciated.

Since I need to e-mail the link and info, I am having trouble finding the right authorities in Oklahoma that even HAVE e-mails. It's driving me batty, lol!

Try contacting the reporters who wrote the associated articles. They may be able to give you contact info on the proper LE who are handling the cases.

[Dark Knight]

*bumping*

[Marie]

I don't know if anyone is still watching this thread but here's a little information about the items found with her and the tattoo.

The tattoo (as mentioned before) is a popular tattoo among Hispanics called the pachuco cross. This cross is surrounded by three small rays or dashes and is placed on the hand crease between the thumb and forefinger. Rich in religious meaning, the cross symbolizes the death and resurrection while the three rays represent each of the Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Of course this woman's tattoo was found on her shoulder, not on her hand. But I'm wondering if they've identified her race as Mexican/Hispanic? The FBI website says White, but I wonder.

I found a reference on the web to a Tom Redmond winning a Lucky Star watch in August 2004 as a door prize at the Glendale Coin Club- www.glencoin.com. The door prizes were purchased from a dealer called Coins Plus in Newhall, CA - http://www.coinsplus.net/ It may be worth calling to find out more about this door prize watch: 818 362-6566

There is a Lucky Star's brand watch from an estate sale on Ebay - link (http://cgi.ebay.com/LUCKY-STAR-UNISEX-SILVER-BLUE-WATCH-BLACK-LEATHER-BAND_W0QQitemZ4935927106QQcategoryZ31387QQssPageNa meZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
It does not look like the one found with the body and does not show a photo of the back (I've written the seller asking for a photo), but Lucky Star is on the front and I can see in the photo's of Jane Doe's watch that there is writing but can't read it.

[Marie]

I now have a photo (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b93/4Susan/LUCKYSTAR.jpg) of the back of the Ebay watch - it looks identical. The seller did not know much about Lucky Star watches but had this to say:

" We have had about 3 or 4 of this brand and they all seem to be of good quality. All of them have a dome crystal that will focus light like a spotlight on the dial. Like I said, I really don't know anything about this brand except that they are nice watches with better than average quality and workmanship."

So, if that's true about the quality then what was she doing with such a watch?

[docwho3]

Tom Redmond won a Lucky star watch
http://www.glencoin.com/PDF_Files/GlenCoin_News_9_9,_September_2004.pdf

info on shoulder tattoos
http://www.lsus.edu/la/journals/ideology/contents/vol25/tattoos.pdf

Gang signs listed on Gang Intelligence Unit website
Common tattoos: three dots "Mi Vida Loca," tear drops, pachuco cross, words with the #13 or #14 in them, pitch forks, crosses, 5- or 6-point stars, and 5- or 6-point crowns, two masks – one happy/one sad.http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Police/About+Us/Departments/Gang+Intelligence+Unit.htm
Note: I also found an article stating that in some places tattooists refused to place tattoos on hands except to cover up a tattoo because of the gang significance & because of the trouble it is to remove a tattoo from the hand.
While the tattoo in question does not always signify gang involvement, it is something to keep in mind.
Another popular tattoo among Hispanics is the pachuco cross. This cross is surrounded by three small rays or dashes and is placed on the hand crease between the thumb and forefinger. Rich in religious meaning, the cross symbolizes the death and resurrection while the three rays represent each of the Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Ghost. http://www.tattoojohnny.com/gang-tattoo-designs.asp

[Becba]

This site has a pachuco cross as a gang tattoo.

It is spelled with one c, doenetwork I think misspelled it as pacchuco.


http://www.shutitdown.net/gangtattoos/

[Dark Knight]

I now have a photo (http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b93/4Susan/LUCKYSTAR.jpg) of the back of the Ebay watch - it looks identical. The seller did not know much about Lucky Star watches but had this to say:

" We have had about 3 or 4 of this brand and they all seem to be of good quality. All of them have a dome crystal that will focus light like a spotlight on the dial. Like I said, I really don't know anything about this brand except that they are nice watches with better than average quality and workmanship."

So, if that's true about the quality then what was she doing with such a watch?

You are right, that is the same watch. But the FBI link describes it as a "cheap" watch. Hmmmm. Good sleuthing finding this! Sorry I didn't see it sooner.

As mentioned before, Lucky Star is a casino in Oklahoma, and the truck stop serial killer is from OK and killed his victims in the same manner she was killed. I am still thinking there is a connection. Thoughts?

[justice2]

In Oklahoma, authorities said investigators plan to travel to Mississippi to question Williams, said Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation.

Don't know if you already done this or not, but I'm pretty sure this is the gal in Oklahoma you need to contact. I know if says spokeswoman, but I'm pretty sure she is an agent. One of the killings happened in Gray County, Texas, in 2003 so it was on the news alot here. The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation was on the news alot, apparently heading up the investigation, and I distinctly remember the person being female. I didn't see this name on their website, but there is a place to contact a public information officer.

I think we should go back to shipping stuff by railroad. Truckstop just trash out our towns, tear up our roads, trucks and cars on the road don't mix, well I could go on.

[Dark Knight]

Bumping this up. We still need to solve this murder and find out who the victim is. I am still convinced it's the truck stop murderer from Oklahoma.

[absinthe]

Just saw this, very interesting!