Who killed JFK, and did Officer Tibbit play a role?

[Dark Knight]

It's the mystery of the 20th Century, who killed JFK? Did the murdered Dallas Police officer have a role in it? Here is a VERY interesting investigation into the timeline that day for Dallas Police Officer Tippit, who was later believed to be murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm

My opinion? Oswald was the lone gunman. All theories about places for a second gunman to shoot from were recently disproved in a Discovery Channel investigation. ABC World News Tonight also did an investigation and found that the Warren Comission was correct. And as for shooting FROM the grassy knoll, I don't think so! Most everyone on the ground seemed to know about the shots coming from the Book Depository 6 stories up and quite a ways away, but NO one noticed someone shooting a rifle from a grassy knoll right there on the street with people all around???? That defies all logic. Was he put up to it by someone else? I think so. Most likely a Mob hit. Was Officer Tippit involved? He sure acted suspiciously, that day, and maybe Oswald had to silence him, just like Ruby had to silence Oswald (and that is typical Mob practice, not only kill the person, but then kill the people who killed the person, to ensure no one was around as a witness.) And they likely also killed Monroe. But, did someone put them up to it, or did they do it on their own? I look forward to reading the various theories, and maybe we can fill each other in on things we have heard that others might not have. Take it away, Sleuthers!!!!

[Gabby]

It's the mystery of the 20th Century, who killed JFK? Did the murdered Dallas Police officer have a role in it? Here is a VERY interesting investigation into the timeline that day for Dallas Police Officer Tippit, who was later believed to be murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm

My opinion? Oswald was the lone gunman. All theories about places for a second gunman to shoot from were recently disproved in a Discovery Channel investigation. ABC World News Tonight also did an investigation and found that the Warren Comission was correct. And as for shooting FROM the grassy knoll, I don't think so! Most everyone on the ground seemed to know about the shots coming from the Book Depository 6 stories up and quite a ways away, but NO one noticed someone shooting a rifle from a grassy knoll right there on the street with people all around???? That defies all logic. Was he put up to it by someone else? I think so. Most likely a Mob hit. Was Officer Tippit involved? He sure acted suspiciously, that day, and maybe Oswald had to silence him, just like Ruby had to silence Oswald (and that is typical Mob practice, not only kill the person, but then kill the people who killed the person, to ensure no one was around as a witness.) And they likely also killed Monroe. But, did someone put them up to it, or did they do it on their own? I look forward to reading the various theories, and maybe we can fill each other in on things we have heard that others might not have. Take it away, Sleuthers!!!!




DK If I can tear myself away from Laci Forum and the Parking Lot, I will be here tonight after reading your link.... Gabs

[Dark Knight]

DK If I can tear myself away from Laci Forum and the Parking Lot, I will be here tonight after reading your link.... Gabs
The timeline is quite long, so that's fine. You are having too much fun in the parking lot, anyways, lol! :) I'll be popping in and out at times yet to be determined, hehe. :rolleyes:

[Gabby]

The timeline is quite long, so that's fine. You are having too much fun in the parking lot, anyways, lol! :) I'll be popping in and out at times yet to be determined, hehe. :rolleyes:



Drop in the Bar and Grille and have a cyber drink on me!!!!!

[Gabby]

DK

Very interesting article....

I want to read more on the site before I comment though...

TIme to go to work :-(



gabs

[Richard]

J. D. TIPPIT (1924-1963) *Killed in line of duty, Nov. 22, 1963*

- J. D. Tippit was the Dallas policeman murdered on November 22, 1963, 45 minutes after the shooting of JFK. Tippit's murder was immediately pinned on Lee Harvey Oswald.

- Jefferson Davis Tippit, police officer, was born in Clarksville, Red River County, Texas, on September 18, 1924, to Edgar Lee and Lizzie Mae (Rush) Tippit. He attended public schools through the tenth grade and during World War II and served as a volunteer in the Seventeenth Airborne Division of the United States Army from July 21, 1944, to June 30, 1946.

- On December 26, 1946, he married Marie Frances Gasaway in Clarksville, moved with her to Dallas, and went to work for the Dearborn Stove Company. He worked in the installation department at Sears, Roebuck and Company from March 1948 to September 1949, when he resigned and moved to the farming community of Lone Star, where he attempted to raise cattle. Listing "general farming" as his course of training, he attended a Veterans Administration vocational training program at Bogata, Texas, from January 1950 to June 1952, and then withdrew to move again to Dallas.

- After working for a while as a carpenter's helper and doing odd jobs for a steel company, Tippit joined the Dallas Police Department as a patrolman on July 28, 1952. His usual assignment was day patrol in Oak Cliff, and he did some off-duty work to supplement his income. In 1956 he was cited for bravery for his role in disarming a fugitive from justice.

- Tippit was allegedly killed by Lee Harvey Oswald, the afternoon of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, on November 22, 1963, after stopping Oswald for questioning on an Oak Cliff street. His funeral took place the same day that funerals for John Kennedy and Oswald took place.

- In January 1964 he was awarded posthumously the Medal of Valor from the National Police Hall of Fame and in June of that year was given the Police Medal of Honor, the Police Cross, and the Citizens Traffic Commission Award of Heroism.

[Richard]

Most of the evidence seems to implicate Lee Harvey Oswald in the murder of President John Kennedy. Oswald worked at the Book Depository Building, he owned the rifle found there, at least one bullet found at Parkland Hospital had been fired from that rifle, Oswald fled the scene and murdered a Police Officer and tried to kill another one in his attempt to escape.
There are, and will probably be as many conspiracy theories as there are students of that "crime of the century". Each of those theories has valid questions and points, but they tend to pick and choose the "evidence" that fits their theory and tend to flatly ignore other accepted facts.
Oswald was a strange duck, no matter how you look at him - a real enigma of a guy. Most conspiracy theories involve him in some way- either as the Lone Nut assassin, as part of a larger team, or as a Patsy or Fall Guy.
The really hard part of the whole story is the number of shots fired and the timing of those shots and how all the eyewitness testimony is so seemingly contradictory. Some say that one guy just could not shoot three (or more) bullets in just over six seconds, hitting the target two out of three times. And this feat is accomplished with a cheap, clumsey bolt action rifle of WW II Italian make.
In 1967, CBS decided to run a test to see if Oswald's alleged shooting feat could be repeated. Eleven marksmen were selected and the shooting was done at H. P. White Ballistic Laboratory in Bel Air, MD. Several shooters were able to duplicate the Warren Report's conclusion of Oswalds shooting, while only one man was able to better it. That man was a Baltimore resident named Howard Donahue.
Donahue had his 15 minutes of fame for his shooting skills that day, but even though he had helped to "Prove that it could be done", he began to study the Kennedy Assassination in great depth. The more he studied, the more he felt that something was not quite right. Unlike most other students of the crime, Donahue studied the ballistics in great detail, and was one of the first to see the autopsey photos. His conclusion was that the angle of the final head shot, the type of bullet, and other factors did not support a conclusion that it came from Oswald's rifle.
Donahue co-authored a book, "Mortal Error" with Bonar Menninger. The book is a fascinating one and comes to the conclusion/theory that one of the Secret Service men in the follow up car may have accidently fired a round from an AR-15 rifle during the assassination, and that it was a bullet from that rifle that hit Kennedy. The book is well researched and actually is the best analysis of the assassination ballistics that I have read.
Most conspiracy buffs dismissed Donahue's theory out of hand, because it does not support their pet theories. They scoff at the thought of something as coincidental as a firearms accident occurring. But when one considers the possibility of that happening, the government's investigation and actions following the assassination begin to make sense in a different sort of way.

[Dark Knight]

Most of the evidence seems to implicate Lee Harvey Oswald in the murder of President John Kennedy. Oswald worked at the Book Depository Building, he owned the rifle found there, at least one bullet found at Parkland Hospital had been fired from that rifle, Oswald fled the scene and murdered a Police Officer and tried to kill another one in his attempt to escape.
There are, and will probably be as many conspiracy theories as there are students of that "crime of the century". Each of those theories has valid questions and points, but they tend to pick and choose the "evidence" that fits their theory and tend to flatly ignore other accepted facts.
Oswald was a strange duck, no matter how you look at him - a real enigma of a guy. Most conspiracy theories involve him in some way- either as the Lone Nut assassin, as part of a larger team, or as a Patsy or Fall Guy.
The really hard part of the whole story is the number of shots fired and the timing of those shots and how all the eyewitness testimony is so seemingly contradictory. Some say that one guy just could not shoot three (or more) bullets in just over six seconds, hitting the target two out of three times. And this feat is accomplished with a cheap, clumsey bolt action rifle of WW II Italian make.
In 1967, CBS decided to run a test to see if Oswald's alleged shooting feat could be repeated. Eleven marksmen were selected and the shooting was done at H. P. White Ballistic Laboratory in Bel Air, MD. Several shooters were able to duplicate the Warren Report's conclusion of Oswalds shooting, while only one man was able to better it. That man was a Baltimore resident named Howard Donahue.
Donahue had his 15 minutes of fame for his shooting skills that day, but even though he had helped to "Prove that it could be done", he began to study the Kennedy Assassination in great depth. The more he studied, the more he felt that something was not quite right. Unlike most other students of the crime, Donahue studied the ballistics in great detail, and was one of the first to see the autopsey photos. His conclusion was that the angle of the final head shot, the type of bullet, and other factors did not support a conclusion that it came from Oswald's rifle.
Donahue co-authored a book, "Mortal Error" with Bonar Menninger. The book is a fascinating one and comes to the conclusion/theory that one of the Secret Service men in the follow up car may have accidently fired a round from an AR-15 rifle during the assassination, and that it was a bullet from that rifle that hit Kennedy. The book is well researched and actually is the best analysis of the assassination ballistics that I have read.
Most conspiracy buffs dismissed Donahue's theory out of hand, because it does not support their pet theories. They scoff at the thought of something as coincidental as a firearms accident occurring. But when one considers the possibility of that happening, the government's investigation and actions following the assassination begin to make sense in a different sort of way.
Now THIS is a theory I have never heard before!!! I am not sure I buy into it, but it is a VERY interesting theory! Thanks for sharing it!

[Jeana (DP)]

I've always been very interested in the Kennedys because my mother was such a big admirer. However, being only about a month old when he died, I think that everything now is hearsay and I don't really trust any of it. Its hard to get behind an investigation or want to get involved when you don't really trust any of the sources of information.

[Mickeymouse523]

Before I say anything I want to say that everythign I say is just my opinion that I have come to after researching this case. I was not alove when Kennedy was shot so everything that I have learned has been from books that I have read.


1. I believe that vice president LBJ played a big role in this murder and cover-up. WHY? 1. Because he knew JFk was going to drop him off the 64 election ballot and he also knew that if he was droppped he would never become preseident himself, which is the only reason he became Kennedy's VP. 2. He flat out hated the Kennedy's becuas eof all their money.

2. I do not believe that LHO fired the fatal head shot. But, I do believe that he was involved and knew that he was going to be arrested. WHY? 1. There is no way that the shot that killed Kennedy came from the TSBD. 2. Based on his reaction following his arrest I think he was involved, I cant really pinpoint on reason, I just feel that he was. 3. The Moorman photograph, after enhancement it shows a man on the Grassy Knoll firing a rifle, this person has become known as Badgeman, as he appears to be wearing a Dallas Police Officer Uniform.

3. I think that the Warren Commission did a horrible job onvestigating the murder. WHY? 1. Johnson urged them to finish before the 64 election so it would look good for his reelection campaign. 2. They left out important information from eye witnesses. 3. the whole single/magic bullet joke, this is the one that got me.

4. I think that there was a conspiracy that like i said previously involved Lyndon Johnson, but who else it involved I am not sure, becuase obviously LBJ did not pull the trigger, but who he hired to I can not say. I am still researching this part.

5. Here is just some other information that I think is interesting pertaining to this case. 1. The motorcade rout was changed the morning of Nov 22. 2. I dont remember where I saw this but just before JFK is shot LBJ ducks down in his limo as if to get out of the way. 3. Jack Ruby says over and over again before he dies that if he is taken to DC he will tell everything he knows about the case.

If anybody wants to talk about this case more I would be more then happy to e-mail w/ you luvyaw@hotmail.com (---luvyaw@hotmail.com)

~Lyzy~

[Richard]

You make some interesting observations regarding the Kennedy assassination.
Most people might tend to agree that the single most flaw in the Warren Report is their presentation of the "Single Bullet Theory" which is often called the "Magic Bullet Theory" by its detractors. This theory was that a single bullet fired from Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle hit Kennedy in the back, then emerged just below his throat (near his necktie knot), then proceeded to hit John Connally in the back, exiting his chest, then breaking his wrist, and finally lodging in his left thigh.
The Warren Report failed to elaborate on positions of the two, and detractors made up their own incorrect sketch regarding seating positions and shot timing. Viewed correctly, it is quite possible that the one bullet did all that.
The harder thing to accept is that the first bullet likely missed after being deflected by a tree branch and riccocheting off the pavement. Possibly Kennedy was struck with a piece of that first bullet, causing his initial reaction, seen so much earlier than Connally's reaction to being hit.
The final head shot and wound does seem quite different from the behavior of the "Single/Magic Bullet".

[Mickeymouse523]

The magic bullet theory is what did it for me; 7 wounds in 2 people and pausing in mid air for 1.7 ( i think) second and changing its trajectory (sp?)

Also about the bullet that missed, a piece of the cement fragment hit a bystander, James Tague who was standign under the triple underpass. I think that this would show more then 3 shots, or there is the Warren Commission story of 3 shots, 1. Magic Bullet 2. Misses 3. fatal head shot.

I dont know all of the above is JMO!

[Richard]

>>The magic bullet theory is what did it for me; 7 wounds in 2 people and pausing in mid air for 1.7 ( i think) second and changing its trajectory (sp?)<<

A full metal jacketet military bullet is quite capable of passing through the soft tissue of two people in close proximity. The problem comes with the PERCEPTION of timing and allignment. In trying to explain HOW that "guilty lone nut" Lee Harvey Oswald did it, the Warren Commission erroneously stated that the first shot fired hit both men, the second shot missed, and the third shot hit Kennedy in the head.
This scenario just did not seem to fit with the photographic evidence of the Zapruder 8mm movie. And conspiracy enthusiasts are quick to riddicule the entire Warren Report because of it. In so doing, they allways exaggerate the feats of the so called "magic bullet".
Analyzing that film, Kennedy seems to react to being hit, while Connally sits there undisturbed for a couple of seconds before reacting violently to his wounds.
Actually, Kennedy (who has reacted to something and grabs for his throat) reacts again - more violently - immediately before Connally does - to the same shot. Kennedy's elbows splay upward quickly in reaction to the bullet hitting his spine. Connally's shoulder drops, his cheeks puff out, and his coat opens a bit before he collapses into the arms of his wife.
The bullet did not make any sharp angle turns to accomplish this. If you look at the limousene's seating arrangements, Kennedy and his wife are sitting on the full back seat. Kennedy's arm at one point is resting on the metal exterior just behind the rear door. Connally and his wife, on the other hand, are sitting in removable jump seats which are placed lower and closer to the centerline of the vehicle. Except for some tumbling of the bullet, the shot was in a straight line.
Kennedy was sitting in somewhat of a slouched position and the back of his coat had ridden up slightly. The bullet struck a few inches below his coat collar, passed just to the right of his spine, striking one of the vertibrae slightly, and then passed out his throat just under his adams apple. It nicked his tie knot. The bullet then began to tumble and struck Connally in the upper right back near his armpit, still tumbling, it struck ribs and exited near his right nipple. The bullet then hit his wrist breaking it and (by then nearly spent) it came to rest in his left thigh, making only a superficial wound.
Not many books go into great detail about the specifics of the wounds. I would suggest two:
"Kennedy and Lincoln" by John Lattimer and
"Mortal Error: the Shot that Killed JFK" by Bonar Menninger and Howard Donahue
There are many questions which linger about the assassination. When one seems to be answered, more appear.

[miles_draken]

Hey guys, everyone knows that the " Smoking Man " from X-files shot the president from the storm drain on the side of the street!! Seriously though, LBJ was a real hard core son of a gun, there is a rumour that he killed his own sister, who was a prostitute or something, to shut her up. I think it's quite possible that he was in on it along with other government officials. As far as the mob being involved, no way, they couldn't pull off something like that in my opinion. It was a government job. If anyone is still basing theories off of Oliver Stones JFK that movie was so horribly inaccurate I can't believe it was even made. Jim Garrison was quite a rambling idiot and even knew he was way off. He didn't deliver that emotional speech in the courtroom like Kevin Costner did in the movie, he was barely there toward the end. Anyway, my 2 cents, LBJ did the deed. I did see the Discovery CHannel program on proving Oswald could have done it, but the guy they used was a sharpshooter, and I've heard that Oswald wasn't a crack shot. I love this conspiracy story though.

Interesting note: Bobby Kennedy once said to a friend in private that he thought the gentleman in New Orleans had a role in the assassination of his brother. You know, Tommy Lee Jones queer in JFK, Clay Shaw or Bertrand. Makes ya think!

[Mickeymouse523]

About the storm drain, I personally dont think that, that is a plausible place, they have done trial runs of that and basically it would be a shot in the dark because you could not see what you were shooting at.

More about the magic bullet, I completly agree that one bulllet can cause wounds in 2 differnt people, I dont buy that it can stop in mid air for like i said before around 1.7 seconds and change the direction it is going.

I think that there was a connection in New Orleans, again I am still researching this part, and I think that Clay Shaw/ Bretrand probably were involved just based on the fact that they both had proven ties to Oswald and Ruby...

Again all the above is JMO...

[Mickeymouse523]

Just curious if anyone watched the Discovery Channel Special, about the magic bullet?? It was very interesting, and I would like to know what other people thought about it...

[Doubro]

Just curious if anyone watched the Discovery Channel Special, about the magic bullet?? It was very interesting, and I would like to know what other people thought about it...
Actually , I just did watch the MBT ( Magic Bullet theory) explanation and attempted vindication by the Discovery channel.

It seems marginally clear that the producers started with an assumption that the MBT was correct and were looking for experiments and experts that would back them up.

Some of their evidence may hold water, some are simply conjecture based on computer models that are about as accurate as a WWII Italian Carcano on a moving target. Not very...

The last experiment was the most telling as it claims to prove the MBT is not only reasonable , but probable.

I don't know how many different and non-successful attempts they had to make to get a bullet to look the way they wanted, but I think each time they shot the full metal jacket through bone, the bullet was moderately deformed. We know that at the very least, there was a broken wrist.

Even though it's possible to have a "pristine" bullet emerge from "soft tissue", the final bullet they point to in the Discovery channels MBT biased show is significantly more deformed than exbt 399 or whatever it was called. They hang their hat on the possiblity that the bullet may have just glanced or graised hard parts of the body.

I don't know that much about JFK's assasination, but I have shot more than a few rifles and know that FMJ rounds are still soft lead underneath and will deform when hitting bone or other hard material. To point to the warped bullet they ended up with as "proof" of MBT was a little absurd.

They also took pains to shoot into the lengthwise end of a wood post at point blank range, attempting to show how tough the copper FMJ casing is, but I wondered why they didn't shoot against the grain of the wood.?. maybe into a dead stump and then fish the round out. Instead they shot into the wood the way someone would send an axe into wood to cleave it in half, which more than likely split the woods grain while keeping the shape of the round in tact.

Lets see them shoot AGAINST the grain and duplicate that bit of entertainment. The two glaring inaccuracies in the Discovery experiment is that Lee Harvey was shooting at a moving target , and it was also a live target. There are two conditions that we'ren't checked and were not really given any acknowledgement.

Sure, bullets can keep their shape sometimes, but with the blunt shape of the Italian rounds that were used in the rifle, it would be more likely to deform severly, considering the velocity and what it was hiting. Having been shot though neck , back and/or chest, ... and a wrist, it's probable that the bullet was either mushroomed or twisted unlike the fairly clean projectile that looked as though someone shot it into a jello mold.

My opinion only... your milage may vary.

Doubro:waitasec:

[Dark Knight]

About the storm drain, I personally dont think that, that is a plausible place, they have done trial runs of that and basically it would be a shot in the dark because you could not see what you were shooting at.

More about the magic bullet, I completly agree that one bulllet can cause wounds in 2 differnt people, I dont buy that it can stop in mid air for like i said before around 1.7 seconds and change the direction it is going.

I think that there was a connection in New Orleans, again I am still researching this part, and I think that Clay Shaw/ Bretrand probably were involved just based on the fact that they both had proven ties to Oswald and Ruby...

Again all the above is JMO...
I've also seen the tests on the storm drain where they said it was impossible to see the motorcade from there or to even get a straight shot off from there. Highly unlikely location.

[Richard]

The science of ballistics can prove some things, but certainly not other. For instance, you cannot "prove" or disprove what shape a bullet will be when it has expended its energy in a target.
What type and shape of material the bullet strikes, what it hits first, second, and third, what the distance was, what the exact amount of powder was, and its age, etc are all variable factors that enter into the mix.
Regardless of all those variables, one thing is fairly certain, and that after exiting the body of President Kennedy, the bullet had to go somewhere. That "somewhere" would have been in the general direction of Governor John Connally who was seated on a jump seat forward and below Kennedy.
The problem which faced the Warren Commission investigators was to reconcile the various wounds and bullet strikes with the number allegedly fired from the rifle of the Lone Gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald.
Witness testimony differed widely as to number of shots and direction. The main piece of evidence used to "solve" the crime was an 8mm home movie taken by Abraham Zapruder of the event. A movie camera takes pictures at a set speed, usually between 16 and 18 frames per second. Taking still pictures from that movie, the commission tried to determine exactly when and where the shots struck. Their choice and interpretation of specific frames and subsequent reconstruction of the crime was where they erred and where most of the criticism comes from regarding the Single Bullet Theory, aka the "Magic Bullet Theory".
The Warren Commission Report stated that the First bullet fired missed the entire limosine. The Second (Magic Bullet) shot, they say, hit Kennedy and Connally, and the Third shot hit Kennedy in the head, killing him.
The big problem with most folks is the apparent time lapse between Kennedy's first reaction to that of Connally. Connally himself always believed that Kennedy was struck by the first bullet and that he was struck by the second.
What may well have happened is that Kennedy could have been struck by a riccocheting bullet fragment from the First shot, causing him to react in a startled way, and to bring his hands toward his throat or face. Only two frames prior to Connally's reaction to his wounds, Kennedy also reacts in a violent manner to the Second bullet striking close to his spine. Kennedy's hands are already close to his throat, but suddenly his hands become fists, and both elbows fly upward. A fraction of a second later, Connally reacts to the same shot.
The Third shot has always been the mystery shot for me. Given the accepted behavior of the second shot and the emergence of such a slightly deformed bullet, How could the Third shot fragment so badly and cause such a terrible wound?

[Richard]

The Storm Drain Scenario Theory predates the X-Files by more than 35 years. I first saw that in a magazine article about 1966. The article put one sniper in the Texas School Book Depository, another on the Daltex building, and a third in the storm drain. According to that article, the guy in the storm drain shot Kennedy in the throat from the front. As mentioned already in this thread, such a shot would have been close to impossible. I do not recall the magazine, but it might have been Life, Look, Post, or possibly True. It was one of the larger size magazines, and it included an artist's conception sketch of the crime.

[Mickeymouse523]

I am going to chnage the subject and ask what you all thought of the Badgeman analysis... I thought that it was interesting that they did not even mention that he may have been kneeling. Becuase if he had been he would have most likely been around 2 feet tall.

[Lili]

Thanks for the link Dark Knight! How well I remember that sad day. I have always felt that it was a conspiracy and Oswald was a patsy, but as for the 'lone gunman', I just don't buy it. Too many theories, everyone 'sees' something differently. We will probably never know the truth.

[Doubro]

[QUOTE=Richard]The science of ballistics can prove some things, but certainly not other. For instance, you cannot "prove" or disprove what shape a bullet will be when it has expended its energy in a target.
What type and shape of material the bullet strikes, what it hits first, second, and third, what the distance was, what the exact amount of powder was, and its age, etc are all variable factors that enter into the mix.
QUOTE]

Ah, Beg to differ. The fact is that you can show by tests exactly the level of deformity you can expect a bullet to undergo with all variables considered.

The Discovery special actually showed in it's final experiment, that the same exact bullet , same batch even, with the same charge was clearly more deformed than the "magic Bullet" when it was shot through a bone encased in ballistic gel which was carefully simulated to mimic a human body.

They simply ignored the increased bullet deformity ( the central question to me about the exibited ballistic evidence), dismissing it by saying that it's probable that the Magic bullet must have simply "graized" the hard part of the targets... the Presidents vertebra and Connelly's wrist , (which I think was shattered, right?)

I believe that the shot could have happened the way that they theorized.

I do not believe that exhibit that they came up with was the actual bullet. It was too consistent with a round shot into gel or other soft targets. This bullet being the lynchpin of the whole scenario, it makes me again wonder about the credibility of the final results of the official investigation, if not the hypothetical validity of the magic bullet theory itself.

Yeah... it's possible ... It could of happened that way, just... not very likely with that bullet, ( in my opinion of course ).

[Richard]

I do not believe that exhibit that they came up with was the actual bullet. It was too consistent with a round shot into gel or other soft targets. This bullet being the lynchpin of the whole scenario, it makes me again wonder about the credibility of the final results of the official investigation, if not the hypothetical validity of the magic bullet theory itself.

Yeah... it's possible ... It could of happened that way, just... not very likely with that bullet, ( in my opinion of course ).

Many others have argued this same point - which opens the whole can of worms. Obviously this particular bullet was the one found at Parkland Hospital. It is the one that the Warren Commission foccused on in coming up with their theory. If it had been another bullet that made the wounds -where did it go?

Any bullet or bullets fired into Kennedy or Connally would have either remained in their bodies, or would have exited inside the limousine, possibly causing damage to the vehicle interior and/or remaining inside the vehicle for recovery.

The Commission Exhibit bullet was reportedly found on Connally's gurney and cleaned of all blood by someone at the hospital before being handed over to a Secret Service agent at the Hospital. In all the confusion, that person's name was never taken. So, from the start, there is a problem with the chain of custody.

But think of all the many unforseeable factors that would have had to go into such a conspiracy to be able to remove the real bullet and plant a fake. Not that some conspiracy buffs haven't tried to explain it in this manner. (Some claim that Jack Ruby was at Parkland and planted it.) How could anyone know in advance to have a bullet waiting at the hospital? And wouldn't planting one there potentially add an additional piece of unaccountable evidence? After all, a person standing by with the fake would have no idea how many shots were fired, nature of wounds, etc.

Ballistic tests into geletin are designed to try to simulate various things, but just look at any collection of bullets fired into geletin (or any kind of material). No two are exactly the same.

You are correct to state that the single bullet theory is an extremely important part of the Warren Commission's final report. If one bullet did NOT wound both men, then there would have had to have been more than one rifleman, - not a conclusion they wanted to make. They, however, had the evidence to deal with, and came up with their theory.

Their biggest problem was that they stated that it was the FIRST shot which struck the men, and that the SECOND shot missed. In fact, the most likely scenario was that the first shot was deflected and riccocheted, while the second shot was the one which hit both men. Trying to make the first shot the one that hit, compresses the amount of time that the shooter would have had, and it gives you the unlikely "gap" of time between Kennedy's first reaction to that of Connally.

[Pharlap]

It's the mystery of the 20th Century, who killed JFK? Did the murdered Dallas Police officer have a role in it? Here is a VERY interesting investigation into the timeline that day for Dallas Police Officer Tippit, who was later believed to be murdered by Lee Harvey Oswald: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm

My opinion? Oswald was the lone gunman. All theories about places for a second gunman to shoot from were recently disproved in a Discovery Channel investigation. ABC World News Tonight also did an investigation and found that the Warren Comission was correct. And as for shooting FROM the grassy knoll, I don't think so! Most everyone on the ground seemed to know about the shots coming from the Book Depository 6 stories up and quite a ways away, but NO one noticed someone shooting a rifle from a grassy knoll right there on the street with people all around???? That defies all logic. Was he put up to it by someone else? I think so. Most likely a Mob hit. Was Officer Tippit involved? He sure acted suspiciously, that day, and maybe Oswald had to silence him, just like Ruby had to silence Oswald (and that is typical Mob practice, not only kill the person, but then kill the people who killed the person, to ensure no one was around as a witness.) And they likely also killed Monroe. But, did someone put them up to it, or did they do it on their own? I look forward to reading the various theories, and maybe we can fill each other in on things we have heard that others might not have. Take it away, Sleuthers!!!!I remember when the late kenedy was shot....
People in the Chicago area, thought Hoover was involved with the set up.
Nothing came of it.

If you also remember, everyone that was close to the case, they died unusual.

There was a movie a number of years later that aired but was taken off,
then re-released years later.....
"The Parallax View" 1974 was it's first release. Warren Beaty was in it.
If you can find it, a MUST see.;)
It's all about that day and what happened in the following few years.....


http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=A37236

http://www.jiffysquid.com/filmreviews/parallaxview.html

[Kathy C]

There is a book called Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong about 2 men using the same identity -- Lee Harvey Oswald. You can purchase it at jfkresearch.com. This will tell you all you need to know about Oswald. Kennedy was killed by wealthy, wealthy oil barons who used mafia hitmen and CIA-trained Cuban exiles. Johnson covered up the plot. He had the Secret Service wash the limo while Kennedy was still in the hospital. Told the Warren Commission to come up with the lone nut theory. Hoover knew also apparently. Kennedy was killed because he wanted to pull out of Viet Nam. He was going to do away with the CIA. He wasn't global in his vision; not New World Order. Johnson knew the night before that they were going to go through with it. As did melancholy Nixon. No Secret Service surrounded Kennedy's limo. There were shooters from the Dal-Tex building, the grassy knoll, also on Stemmons Freeway and at the Trade Mart. He wasn't getting out alive.
Kathy C

[Pharlap]

I remember when the late kenedy was shot....
People in the Chicago area, thought Hoover was involved with the set up.
Nothing came of it.

If you also remember, everyone that was close to the case, they died unusual.

There was a movie a number of years later that aired but was taken off,
then re-released years later.....
"The Parallax View" 1974 was it's first release. Warren Beaty was in it.
If you can find it, a MUST see.;)
It's all about that day and what happened in the following few years.....


http://www.allmovie.com/cg/avg.dll?p=avg&sql=A37236

http://www.jiffysquid.com/filmreviews/parallaxview.html

If you don't like to read much then watch this movie...
Has it all that's in the book.....

[Kathy C]

Oswald was told to stay by the phone outside the lunch room. The first cop on the scene was supposed to shoot him, but there was another person by Oswald. So J.D. Tippet was radioed to find Oswald, who had sneaked out of the building, and kill him. Lee Oswald ran into Tippet. He was part of the conspiracy against the patsy, Harvey. Lee shot Tippet as Tippet obviously thought he was Harvey Oswald. Lee left a wallet near the body incriminating Harvey. Then there was the wild rush to the Texas Movie Theater. And Harvey was arrested. Again, my main source was Harvey and Lee by John Armstrong.

[Kathy C]

In a related matter, I thought the members would like to know about Chappaquiddick. Below is a chapter from Robert Cutler's book, The Taking of America 1-2-3. Chapter 7
The Control of the Kennedys
Threats & Chappaquiddick

Chappaquiddick. A careful examination of the real evidence in this event shows that Ted Kennedy was framed in the killing of Mary Joe Kopechne and then his life and his children's lives threatened if he ever told the truth about what happened. The facts in the case and the conclusions that can be drawn from them are contained in a book by Boston researcher Robert Cutler.[2] (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html#fn2)
Ted's withdrawal from the presidential race in November 1975. It is a fact that all of his and Robert's children were being protected by the Secret Service for five days in November 1975. A threat had been made against the children's lives unless he officially announced his withdrawal. He made the announcement and has stuck to it ever since. The Secret Service protection ended the day after he made the announcement.
It does not seem likely that Senator Kennedy would withdraw from the race because of a threat from a lone nut or from some obscure group. He remembers the 1965 threat and Chappaquiddick very well. He knows about the Power Control Group and he knows their enormous capability. He knows what they did to his brothers. He has no choice but to hope that somehow, sometime, the Group will be exposed. But he dares not let them believe he would ever have anything to do with it. Publicly he will always have to support the Warren Commission and continue to state that he will not run for president. Privately he is forced to ask his closest friends and his relatives not to get involved with new investigations, and to help protect his children. Some of them know the truth. Others do not, and are puzzled by his behavior. They go along with it under the assumption that he has good and sufficient reasons not to open the can of worms represented by the conspiracies in his brother's deaths.
The Power Control Group faced up to the Ted Kennedy and Kennedy family problem very early. They used the threat against the Kennedy children's lives very effectively between 1963 and 1968 to silence Bobby and the rest of the family and friends who knew the truth. It was necessary to assassinate Bobby in 1968 because with the power of the presidency he could have prevented the Group from harming the children. When Teddy began making moves to run for president in 1969 for the 1972 election, the Group decided to put some real action behind their threats. Killing Teddy in 1969 would have been too much. They selected a new way of eliminating him as a candidate. They framed him with the death of a young girl, and threw sexual overtones in for good measure.
Here is what happened according to Cutler's analysis of the evidence. The Group hired several men and at least one woman to be at Chappaquiddick during the weekend of the yacht race and the planned party on the island. They ambushed Ted and Mary Jo after they left the cottage and knocked Ted out with blows to his head and body. They took the unconscious or semi-conscious Kennedy to Martha's Vineyard and deposited him in his hotel room. Another group took Mary Jo to the bridge in Ted's car, force fed her with a knock out potion of alcoholic beverage, placed her in the back seat, and caused the car to accelerate off the side of the bridge into the water. They broke the windows on one side of the car to insure the entry of water; then they watched the car until they were sure Mary Jo would not escape.
Mary Jo actually regained consciousness and pushed her way to the top of the car (which was actually the bottom of the car -- it had landed on its roof) and died from asphyxiation. The group with Teddy revived him early in the morning and let him know he had a problem. Possibly they told him that Mary Jo had been kidnapped. They told him his children would be killed if he told anyone what had happened and that he would hear from them. On Chappaquiddick, the other group made contact with Markham and Gargan, Ted's cousin and lawyer. They told both men that Mary Jo was at the bottom of the river and that Ted would have to make up a story about it, not revealing the existence of the group. One of the men resembled Ted and his voice sounded something like Ted's. Markham and Gargan were instructed to go the the Vineyard on the morning ferry, tell Ted where Mary Jo was, and come back to the island to wait for a phone call at a pay station near the ferry on the Chappaquiddick side.
The two men did as they were told and Ted found out what had happened to Mary Jo that morning. The three men returned to the pay phone and received their instructions to concoct a story about the "accident" and to report it to the police. The threat against Ted's children was repeated at that time.
Ted, Markham and Gargan went right away to police chief Arena's office on the Vineyard where Ted reported the so-called "accident." Almost at the same time scuba diver John Farror was pulling Mary Jo out of the water, since two boys who had gone fishing earlier that morning had spotted the car and reported it.
Ted called together a small coterie of friends and advisors including family lawyer Burke Marshall, Robert MacNamara, Ted Sorenson, and others. They met on Squaw Island near the Kennedy compound at Hyannisport for three days. At the end of that time they had manufactured the story which Ted told on TV, and later at the inquest. Bob Cutler calls the story, "the shroud." Even the most cursory examination of the story shows it was full of holes and an impossible explanation of what happened. Ted's claim that he made the wrong turn down the dirt road toward the bridge by mistake is an obvious lie. His claim that he swam the channel back to Martha's Vineyard is not believable. His description of how he got out of the car under water and then dove down to try to rescue Mary Jo is impossible. Markham and Gargan's claims that they kept diving after Mary Jo are also unbelievable.
The evidence for the Cutler scenario is substantial. It begins with the marks on the bridge and the position of the car in the water. The marks show that the car was standing still on the bridge and then accelerated off the edge, moving at a much higher speed than Kennedy claimed. The distance the car travelled in the air also confirms this. The damage to the car on two sides and on top plus the damage to the windshield and the rear view mirror stanchion [3] (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html#fn3) prove that some of the damage had to have been inflicted before the car left the bridge.
The blood on the back and on the sleeves of Mary Jo's blouse proves that a wound was inflicted before she left the bridge.[4] (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html#fn4) The alcohol in her bloodstream proves she was drugged, since all witnesses testified she never drank and did not drink that night. The fact that she was in the back seat when her body was recovered indicates that is where she was when the car hit the water. There was no way she could have dived downward against the inrushing water and moved from the front to the back seat underneath the upside-down seat back.
The wounds on the back of Ted Kennedy's skull, those just above his ear and the large bump on the top indicate he was knocked out. His actions at the hotel the next morning show he was not aware of Mary Jo's death until Markham and Gargan arrived. The trip to the pay phone on Chappaquiddick can only be explained by his receiving a call there, not making one. There were plenty of pay phones in or near Ted's hotel if he needed to make a private call. The tides in the channel and the direction in which Ted claimed he swam do not match. In addition it would have been a superhuman feat to have made it across the channel (as proven by several professionals who subsequently tried it).
Deputy Sheriff Christopher Look's testimony, coupled with the testimony of Ray LaRosa and two Lyons girls, proves that there were two people in Ted's car with Mary Jo at 12:45 PM. The three party members walking along the road south toward the cottage confirmed the time that Mr. Look drove by. He stopped to ask if they needed a ride. Look says that just prior to that he encountered Ted's car parked facing north at the juncture of the main road and the dirt road. It was on a short extension of the north-south section of the road junction to the north of the "T". He says he saw a man driving, a woman in the seat beside him, and what he thought was another woman lying on the back seat. He remembered a portion of the license plate which matched Ted's car, as did the description of the car. Markham, Gargan and Ted's driver's testimony show that someone they talked to in the pitch black night sounded like Ted and was about his height and build.
None of the above evidence was ever explained by Ted or by anyone else at the inquest or at the hearing on the case demanded by district attorney Edward Dinis. No autopsy was ever allowed on Mary Jo's body (her family objected), and Ted made it possible to fly her body home for burial rather quickly. Kennedy haters have seized upon Chappaquiddick to enlarge the sexual image now being promoted of both Ted and Jack Kennedy. Books like "Teddy Bare" take full advantage of the situation.
Just which operatives in the Power Control Group at the high levels or the lower levels were on Chappaquiddick Island? No definite evidence has surfaced as yet, except for an indication that there was at least one woman and at least three men, one of whom resembled Ted Kennedy and who sounded like him in the darkness. However, two pieces of testimony in the Watergate hearings provide significant clues as to which of the known JFK case conspirators may have been there.
E. Howard Hunt told of a strange trip to Hyannisport to see a local citizen there about the Chappaquiddick incident. Hunt's cover story on this trip was that he was digging up dirt on Ted Kennedy for use in the 1972 campaign. The story does not make much sense if one questions why Hunt would have to wear a disguise, including his famous red wig, and to use a voice-alteration device to make himself sound like someone else. If, on the other hand, Hunt's purpose was to return to the scene of his crime just to make sure that no one who might have seen his group at the bridge or elsewhere would talk, then the disguise and the voice box make sense.
The other important testimony came from Tony Ulasewicz who said he was ordered by the Plumbers to fly immediately to Chappaquiddick and dig up dirt on Ted. The only problem Tony has is that, according to his testimony, he arrived early on the morning of the "accident", before the whole incident had been made public. Ulasewicz is the right height and weight to resemble Kennedy and with a CIA voice-alteration device he presumably could be made to sound like him. There is a distinct possibility that Hunt and Tony were there when it happened.
The threats by the Power Control Group, the frame-up at Chappaquiddick, and the murders of Jack and Bobby Kennedy cannot have failed to take their toll on all of the Kennedys. Rose, Ted, Jackie, Ethel and the other close family members must be very tired of it all by now. They can certainly not be blamed for hoping it will all go away. Investigations like those proposed by Henry Gonzalez and Thomas Downing only raised the spectre of the powerful Control Group taking revenge by kidnapping some of the seventeen children.
It was no wonder that a close Kennedy friend and ally in California, Representative Burton, said that he would oppose the Downing and Gonzalez resolutions unless Ted Kennedy put his stamp of approval on them. While the sympathies of every decent American go out to them, the future of our country and the freedom of the people to control their own destiny through the election process mean more than the lives of all the Kennedys put together. If John Kennedy were alive today he would probably make the same statement.
John Dean summed it up when he said to Richard Nixon as recorded on the White House tapes in 1973: "If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick. . . ."[5] (http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html#fn5)

The fabulous Jackie -- Christian Cafarakis -- Productions de Paris -- 1972 You the Jury -- Robert Cutler -- Self Published -- 1974 A rope attached to the stick which held the Oldsmobile throttle wide open caught the drivers rear view mirror and tore it loose so that it was hanging by the rear bolt. There was no other mark on the left side of the car. A sliver of glass from two broken windows no doubt caused this bleeding since Mary Jo was already face down and unconscious in the rear seat. Since there was no autopsy this clean cut went unnoticed by the embalmers. On page 121, White House Tapes Paperback Edition, published by New York Times

[Richard]

The Chappaquidick story is certainly a fascinating one, with all the elements of a good historical novel, weaving in all the known facts with a host of unseen characters planning every last detail of the murder to make it look like an accident - all to make poor Ted look bad enough to not run for President.

There was a lot of fiction being written and acted out as early as the day following Mary Jo's death. Only that was not fiction written by a novelist or by some shadowy group. It was fiction being made up by Ted Kennedy and his advisors.

If some group was going to go through all the trouble of killing someone and making it look like an accident, why didn't they just leave Ted in the car too? Ted just did not need any help to screw things up. All politics aside, most people looking at the evidence would conclude that Ted drove his own car off the bridge and into the water, then saved his own hide, leaving Mary Jo to die. True, there are a lot of unanswered questions about Chappaquidick, but this story is pretty far fetched in my opinion.

No matter how you look at it. Ted Kennedy is his own worst enemy. He is truly a "Could-Have-Been". But he blew it.

[Kathy C]

I happened to work in the Ricoh office building adjourning the Caldwell Airport and long before 9/11 worried that a plane would come crashing into the building. Which has nothing to do with this post.
Anyway. Some researchers believe JFK Jr's plane was tampered with at that insignificant airport. It was a barometric bomb, which meant as Jr's plane descended near Martha's Vineyard, the bomb exploded. Several people, including a doctor, saw an explosion in the sky in the area where Jr's plane would have been.
Proof was the debris washed up on shore immediately, whereas if the plane had crashed into the water, much of it may have remained intact.
The sister-in-law's luggage; her business card. And the quick cremation and burial at sea.
The motive for the bomb? Hillary Clinton wanted to run as Senator of New York and JFK jr wanted to as well. If Jr rose to that position, he was going to look into the murder of his father. The powers that be killed John Kennedy Jr. Recall all the weird deaths during the Clinton presidency. When are people going to learn the President is not the head man?
After the tragedy, which could not be further investigated, Caroline supposedly said she wanted to look into who killed her father. Ted Kennedy supposedly answered, "If you start with that, we're going to put you into a mental institution."
Source: jfkresearch.com
Kathy C

[Richard]

John Kennedy Jr. was a fairly new and inexperienced pilot. He had broken his leg and it was still in a cast when he flew his last flight. My initial feeling was that he managed to stall the aircraft - possibly due to overloading or incorrect weight and balance - and that his attempts to recover control from the stall and resultant spin were not sufficient. His broken leg in a cast would have significantly hindered this attempt to manage controls in such a situation. I believe that the accident investigators later came to a similar conclusion.

There has been a rising threat of air terrorism involving bombs, hijackers, suicide pilots and by individuals with shoulder fired rockets. Consideration is given in all air crash investigations to the possibility that a bomb or rocket may have been involved. The most common cause of air crashes, however, is usually ruled "pilot error".

[Kathy C]

If it was pilot error, why did Ted Kennedy arrange for an immediate cremation for John Jr and the 2 Bessette girls (along with their parents' approval). Sounds to me like something was covered up.

Kathy C

[Kathy C]

There is only one judge in the end. For all of us. I don't think Ted Kennedy has anything to worry about when his time comes. When he dies -- which I hope is a long way off -- I bet the real story will come out.
Kathy C

[monkalup]

Thanks for the link Dark Knight! How well I remember that sad day. I have always felt that it was a conspiracy and Oswald was a patsy, but as for the 'lone gunman', I just don't buy it. Too many theories, everyone 'sees' something differently. We will probably never know the truth.


Remember Frank Sturgis of Watergate fame? he said the same thing...he worked for Nixon even then

[Pepper]

Originally Posted by Lili
Thanks for the link Dark Knight! How well I remember that sad day. I have always felt that it was a conspiracy and Oswald was a patsy, but as for the 'lone gunman', I just don't buy it. Too many theories, everyone 'sees' something differently. We will probably never know the truth.
I remember it well. I was in high school at the time.

I have seen a couple of TV programs that make a good case for JFK's assination being a mob hit because of how tough RFK as AG was on mob crime, after the mob was influential in getting JFK elected. Mob felt double-crossed. Makes sense to me. I just don't see Oswald having that strong a motive to do it alone.

[Dark Knight]

There was a book not too long ago implicating Jackie in JFK's death (and possibly Marlyn Monroe's) likely as revenge for their affair. What do you all think of that possibility?

[Dark Knight]

I remember it well. I was in high school at the time.

I have seen a couple of TV programs that make a good case for JFK's assination being a mob hit because of how tough RFK as AG was on mob crime, after the mob was influential in getting JFK elected. Mob felt double-crossed. Makes sense to me. I just don't see Oswald having that strong a motive to do it alone.
I think Oswald could have done it alone, and some experts have recreated it and proven it's possibility, but that doesnt preclude it being a mob hit. He simply was the hit man, paid a lot of money, perhaps, and when Officer Tibbit didn't kill him to silence him, Ruby was sent to do it. That's typical mob MO, kill the hired killers and maybe even kill the killers of the killers. They do it all the time. (I have LE in my family who know about the mob quite well.)

[Pepper]

I think Oswald could have done it alone, and some experts have recreated it and proven it's possibility, but that doesnt preclude it being a mob hit. He simply was the hit man, paid a lot of money, perhaps, and when Officer Tibbit didn't kill him to silence him, Ruby was sent to do it. That's typical mob MO, kill the hired killers and maybe even kill the killers of the killers. They do it all the time. (I have LE in my family who know about the mob quite well.)I didn't mean to infer that Oswald wasn't the lone gunman. I'm not sure how I feel about that. Seems like there is much controversy surrounding the "single bullet" theory. Maybe there was a second shooter, then again maybe not. However, the mob hit is a very real possibility, and it makes a lot of sense to me.

The last TV program I saw on this indicated that Earl Warren and Gerald Ford were sent to Texas to interview Ruby in jail. Ruby begged them to take him to Washington DC and he would tell them everything. This indicated Ruby was fearful of staying in Texas if he spilled the beans. They didn't move him.

[Kathy C]

Did Lee Harvey Oswald create the Warren Commission? Did LHO tell the Secret Service to clean the limo outside of Parkland Hospital and thereby destroy the evidence of the crime scene? There are photos of this. Did LHO tell the Secret Service not to go near Kennedy's limo in the motorcade? The passengers had no protection. Did LHO tell the "Cuban" to wave his white-sleeved arm as a signal for the shooting to start again, or the limo to come to a stop? Did LHO tell the Umbrella Man to open and close his umbrella a few times when Kennedy neared? (Was the Umbrella a CIA weapon, which shot a poisoned dart at Kennedy's throat?) Did LHO know the 3 tramps -- possible shooters? Did LHO have Zapruder, who suffered from Vertigo, climb up onto the 4 foot pedestal and film the Assassination?
In my opinion, there is no way LHO shot President Kennedy and Gov. Connelly. The shots came from the Dal-Tex building, the grassy knoll and possibly from the triple underpass.

Kathy C

[joellegirl]

Sorry to backtrack to the Chappaquiddick part of this thread, but I just read it and one part said that Ted Kennedy withdrew from the presidential race in Nov 1975 and has stuck to it ever since. He ran again in 1980. Maybe I am missing something but I'm just curious as I well remember him running in 1980.

[Pepper]

There was a book not too long ago implicating Jackie in JFK's death (and possibly Marlyn Monroe's) likely as revenge for their affair. What do you all think of that possibility?Naaah. That's just way too far fetched.

[Dark Knight]

Naaah. That's just way too far fetched.
She was, even after death, awfully darn secretive, despite her being a part of history. What was she hiding? And couldn't she have easily planted a "pristine" bullet in the car? And where the heck was she going when the shots were fired? Just questions to ponder, not accusations, per se, that have lent themselves to this theory, in some ways. And, did she have motive, means, and opportunity?

[poco]

Just a little tidbit of info here - I worked at Parkland Hospital (the hospital where they took JFK), but way after he was assasinated. I worked in Pathology and Autopsy - probably around the early 1970's.....

Just thought I'd throw that in here because right now I don't have much else to add.

[Pepper]

She was, even after death, awfully darn secretive, despite her being a part of history. What was she hiding? And couldn't she have easily planted a "pristine" bullet in the car? And where the heck was she going when the shots were fired? Just questions to ponder, not accusations, per se, that have lent themselves to this theory, in some ways. And, did she have motive, means, and opportunity?No way! Here's my opinion. The Kennedy family KNOWS why JFK was assinated. They are well aware of the mob connection and the reason for the hit. But they DON'T WANT US TO KNOW. That is why they've never been too interested in any other theories and have accepted the Warren Commission Report at face value. They were way too interested in protecting the reputation of the family and did not want anyone to make the connection that maybe old Joe bought some votes from the mob and RFK didn't obey his daddy's commands to keep his hands off them.

[Pepper]

Just a little tidbit of info here - I worked at Parkland Hospital (the hospital where they took JFK), but way after he was assasinated. I worked in Pathology and Autopsy - probably around the early 1970's.....

Just thought I'd throw that in here because right now I don't have much else to add.
Poco, did you sneek a peek at JFK's records while you were there?

[poco]

Poco, did you sneek a peek at JFK's records while you were there?

Ya know, I didn't even think about it, but I'd bet you $1,000,000 there are no records at that hospital - I'm sure they are all securely locked away somewhere else. Interesting though, wonder where they are???

[KarlK]

The book is a fascinating one and comes to the conclusion/theory that one of the Secret Service men in the follow up car may have accidently fired a round from an AR-15 rifle during the assassination, and that it was a bullet from that rifle that hit Kennedy.

Whether or not that's how it happened this theory at least has the merit of somewhat explaining the conspiracy-like atmosphere that still surrounds the Kennedy assassination to this day. Even if it was purely accidental a blunder of such magnitude on the part of a Secret Service officer, if exposed, could have put the very existence of the Secret Service in jeopardy, at least with regards to handling the President's personal security. This assignment is coveted by other agencies such as the NSA but in Kennedy's day it was no big secret that Hoover wanted the job for the FBI, knowing it would allow him better access to (and more control over) the President himself, both of which he had little of with Kennedy who distrusted him.

Given these factors it's not that hard to conceive that the Secret Service, suddenly thrown into a life or death situation, had LBJ and Warren, neither of them a Hoover fan, convinced that the truth should be kept under lids. Since they had a crackpot on hand who likely had fired a shot at Kennedy, why not make him (Oswald) the best marksman the land had ever produced? Whether or not Oswald had missed was of secondary importance, since the autopsy results would not be released to the public. At the time it probably didn't occur to the Administration that some members of the media would inevitably spot the telltale signs of a cover-up and draw the wrong conclusions, invoking a much more sinister plot than a self-preserving move on the part of the Secret Service. Politicians rarely admit to their errors, so they stuck to their guns despite the fact that their actions would feed conspiracy theorists for decades, something I'm sure they would have preferred not to see happen.

Just a theory among hundreds, of course. I don't think we will will ever know the full details of what really happened, and it's not that important anyway.