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imamaze
01-02-2011, 01:43 PM
Dear Posters,
Please refrain from posting about sleuthing innocent people and Jonathan's family members. LE has stated that MN implicated others during interrogation - however LE says they put those others under the "microscope" and they have been cleared. It is LE's position that MN acted alone.
I understand this is a horrendous crime. However, WS does not want to contribute to the horror of this story by trying to implicate innocent people, including the stepdad, roommate or other family members.
If you have questions, contact a mod and they will help you.
Thank you and thank you for your efforts on Jonathan's behalf.
Tricia

http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss50/Connie2/Missing/thumb.png

Media Links

Jonathan Foster General Discussion Threads

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Do not post something saying "I think this is the same person..." with a link. If you don't know it is the correct person, do not post it. Post only if it has to do with the case.
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PLEASE THANK THE OPENING POST SO WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE READ IT.

Please continue here...

Harmony2
01-02-2011, 01:54 PM
Bringing this over from the other thread~~

This is why we need the phone records. Was AD driving home and heard threatening things towards J, arriving moments later to find him gone.
Or was AD still at work when the threatening call was made?

My interpretation is that the threatening remarks toward Jonathan were made while AD was driving home...

Probable Cause Hearing:

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7871218

I think this was the first time threatening phone calls were mentioned.

ETA: First time I post first on a thread ...yipeeee

Samigirl28
01-02-2011, 01:55 PM
I haven't posted in quite some time, but am always reading and appreciating everyone's hard work with all these terrible cases. I agree with whoever said that you think you've probably heard the worst case possible, and then you turn around and there is another one.
MOO is that MN acted alone in the murder and cover-up. My thought is that when she came around at 12:30pm her intent was to kidnap JF then, but perhaps she knew she had been spotted by the witness. So maybe she made a comment about needing SE's phone number, had JF call, etc...Then she left, but continued to lurk for a better opportunity. She very well might have known the family's circumstances being friends with SE. When around 1:45 DD came to the apt. to check on JF she saw that. Once he left she knew now was the time and went knocking again. JF answered the door and wasn't really afraid at first because she'd already been by once. He was in the middle of a show and was probably caught off guard. Once she was in, he must realized he was in trouble, maybe went to the bathroom or something, grabbed his stuffed toy and tried to get a call in to his mother. She found out what he was up to, became angry, talked to the mom, then threatened JF and hung up the phone. I think it was JF who stated it "was an emergency" because when my son was around that age, people would always mistake our voices, asking me if my mother was home. I think his voice just rose in fright. Then she grabbed him and left, perhaps stunning him with her tazer so it would be easier to get him out.
As sickening as it is I think it is possible that the cod is the torch. My thought process on this is that she only had 4 hours, less than that really, to do all of this. She obviously had no care if somebody found the body because she dumped it in such a location that it was only a matter of time before it was found. Why burn it then? To get rid of evidence or to hurt someone in the worst possible way?
I also feel that DD was on his way to being framed and arrested without that videotape. IMO MN knew he'd been there, knew he'd previously slapped the boy, and already had a story in place in case she was picked up.
A couple of things I don't understand though are why on earth would she do this on a carpet in an apt? Did she make a good attempt to cover her tracks or just go to her sister's and act like this never happened after Xmas Eve. I also don't understand when the "threats" came in. Was that on AD's car ride home or back at the office? Because if that was the case, I can't imagine thinking that he'd just run off for a bit. Thanks!

Reannan
01-02-2011, 01:56 PM
Whew! I thought I was in a timeout or something because I couldn't respond over on the last thread. Maybe go back and post that the thread is closing or something???? Hate it when panic sets in on a Sunday afternoon! :crazy:

lynnb
01-02-2011, 01:57 PM
I don't know anything about the legal system so please bear with me if this is a stupid question....
This hearing that MN is having tomorrow morning...is it for her to have a lawyer appointed to her or will it be the hearing where they list her charges and she pleads "guilty" or "not guilty"?

Lera213
01-02-2011, 01:57 PM
Patty and fellow posters:

I cannot find the clip so I'm going to assume it was my brain thinking of different scenarios as I was watching a live clip during this ordeal. In the off chance it is out there, could someone please keep an eye and ear out. Perhaps if I did, it will come out in the future or the past.

Sorry all.

Reannan
01-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Regarding the last calls made to Mom at work from the home where JF lived and was abudcted from: I think the telephone was taken to place calls from outside the home. Someone else had done an experiment (thanks) that showed you could talk for up to about a block before the phone died. Why else would she have taken the phone? Fingerprints? Not that out of place if she had been there before to visit SE.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Patty and fellow posters:

I cannot find the clip so I'm going to assume it was my brain thinking of different scenarios as I was watching a live clip during this ordeal. In the off chance it is out there, could someone please keep an eye and ear out. Perhaps if I did, it will come out in the future or the past.

Sorry all.


I just did a WS search regarding all posts with "rolled carpet". There are a couple of posts speculating about a "rolled carpet" and then your posts about the rolled carpet.

cloudajo
01-02-2011, 02:03 PM
For reference regarding phone calls.

San Antonio Express – December 29

David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday.

That afternoon, someone called Angela Davis’ workplace, Harris said.

“We believe Jonathan’s actually on the phone and asks to speak to his mom,” Harris said. A colleague who answered the phone said the mother was working and would call him back.
“And then a female gets on the phone and says this is an emergency,” Harris said.

By the time Jonathan’s mother picked up, no one was there, he said.

Angela Davis called the land line where she and Jonathan live, and a woman with a gruff voice answered, Harris said. Jonathan’s mother asked for her roommate, and the woman said the roommate wasn’t there.

“Then Angela says, ‘Well, this is Angela, I’m Jonathan’s mother. Who are you?’ ” Harris said. “And the woman is heard saying, ‘Is Angela your mother?’ And the boy replies, ‘Yes ma’am, Angela’s my mother.’ And then the phone went dead.”

A few minutes later, the mother arrived home, Harris said. Jonathan was gone, and the cordless phone was missing, he said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN)

Houston Chronicle – December 30

That morning at work, a colleague told Davis her son had called the office, and had asked for Ennamorato's number. She was only told about the call after the fact, she said.
Then a woman called back, saying it was an emergency. By the time Davis made it to the phone, she said, the line was dead.

Concerned, Davis called the house phone again and again as she drove to the cottage, she said. Someone picked up just minutes before she pulled up around 2 p.m.

A woman answered, she said, and Davis identified herself and asked to speak her son. She heard a woman say: "Is your mama's name Angela?" she said.

And she heard Jonathan say: "Yes ma'am, my mama's name is Angela." And then the phone went dead.

When she opened the door moments later, cartoons were still on the TV, and a game was up on the computer screen. A can of Tootsie rolls sat on the computer desk.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7356276.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7356276.html)

MN Probable Cause Hearing – December 30
Transcribed

Twelve year old Jonathan Paul Foster was taken from his home, or missing from his home when his mother came home from work.

Prior to her arrival, she had received a mysterious phone call from her residence from a female, who made threatening remarks towards her son. Also, witness observed a female arriving at the residence in a grey or silver pickup about the same time that those threatening calls were made.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7871218 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7871218)


HPD – Press Conference - December 30
Transcribed

At about 2:00, Jonathan places a phone call to his mother’s place of work. He speaks to one of her co-workers, asks her a couple of questions, the mother gets a little - the mother finds out about it, gets a little concerned, it’s about time for her to go home, she calls the house, and that’s when she speaks to the woman I guess that everybody heard about, with the, kind of the raspy voice. She gets disconnected, she immediately goes home, and Jonathan is gone.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7872370 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7872370)

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:03 PM
I don't know anything about the legal system so please bear with me if this is a stupid question....
This hearing that MN is having tomorrow morning...is it for her to have a lawyer appointed to her or will it be the hearing where they list her charges and she pleads "guilty" or "not guilty"?

Yes, it will be for her to hear her charges, plead and ask about if she has an attorney or needs one.

imamaze
01-02-2011, 02:05 PM
Whew! I thought I was in a timeout or something because I couldn't respond over on the last thread. Maybe go back and post that the thread is closing or something???? Hate it when panic sets in on a Sunday afternoon! :crazy:

LOL, sorry Reannan, I did post that I was closing, I'll leave it up longer before I close it.

Ima

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:06 PM
cloudajo,

Do you recall a VIDEO where AD speaks about driving home etc.?

Thank you so much for all the info you are posting.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:10 PM
My hinky meter is on OVERLOAD! :okay:

lynnb
01-02-2011, 02:15 PM
Yes, it will be for her to hear her charges, plead and ask about if she has an attorney or needs one.

How can she offer a plea if she's never met with an attorney? and if she does plea guilty then that's it right? case closed?

Lera213
01-02-2011, 02:17 PM
It is possible that she waves a trial?

JBean
01-02-2011, 02:17 PM
Everyone:
Please thank the opening post so we know that you have read it. PLease do this for every opening post, because the rules are often modified.
thank you

Harmony2
01-02-2011, 02:19 PM
For reference regarding phone calls.

San Antonio Express – December 29

David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday.

That afternoon, someone called Angela Davis’ workplace, Harris said.

“We believe Jonathan’s actually on the phone and asks to speak to his mom,” Harris said. A colleague who answered the phone said the mother was working and would call him back.
“And then a female gets on the phone and says this is an emergency,” Harris said.

By the time Jonathan’s mother picked up, no one was there, he said.

Angela Davis called the land line where she and Jonathan live, and a woman with a gruff voice answered, Harris said. Jonathan’s mother asked for her roommate, and the woman said the roommate wasn’t there.

“Then Angela says, ‘Well, this is Angela, I’m Jonathan’s mother. Who are you?’ ” Harris said. “And the woman is heard saying, ‘Is Angela your mother?’ And the boy replies, ‘Yes ma’am, Angela’s my mother.’ And then the phone went dead.”

A few minutes later, the mother arrived home, Harris said. Jonathan was gone, and the cordless phone was missing, he said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN)

Houston Chronicle – December 30

That morning at work, a colleague told Davis her son had called the office, and had asked for Ennamorato's number. She was only told about the call after the fact, she said.
Then a woman called back, saying it was an emergency. By the time Davis made it to the phone, she said, the line was dead.

Concerned, Davis called the house phone again and again as she drove to the cottage, she said. Someone picked up just minutes before she pulled up around 2 p.m.

A woman answered, she said, and Davis identified herself and asked to speak her son. She heard a woman say: "Is your mama's name Angela?" she said.

And she heard Jonathan say: "Yes ma'am, my mama's name is Angela." And then the phone went dead.

When she opened the door moments later, cartoons were still on the TV, and a game was up on the computer screen. A can of Tootsie rolls sat on the computer desk.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7356276.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7356276.html)

MN Probable Cause Hearing – December 30
Transcribed

Twelve year old Jonathan Paul Foster was taken from his home, or missing from his home when his mother came home from work.

Prior to her arrival, she had received a mysterious phone call from her residence from a female, who made threatening remarks towards her son. Also, witness observed a female arriving at the residence in a grey or silver pickup about the same time that those threatening calls were made.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7871218 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7871218)


HPD – Press Conference - December 30
Transcribed

At about 2:00, Jonathan places a phone call to his mother’s place of work. He speaks to one of her co-workers, asks her a couple of questions, the mother gets a little - the mother finds out about it, gets a little concerned, it’s about time for her to go home, she calls the house, and that’s when she speaks to the woman I guess that everybody heard about, with the, kind of the raspy voice. She gets disconnected, she immediately goes home, and Jonathan is gone.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7872370 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7872370)

I am elated to see you posting on this case friend!!!

Personally, I am going to rely on what was presented in court at the Probable Cause Hearing...

amysmom
01-02-2011, 02:19 PM
GMTA at exactly 2:19p Harmony! lol

12/30/10 Probable Cause Hearing

Witnesses observe the arrival of a female in a grey/silver pickup around the same time as the threatening calls were made.

The defendant was identified by the witness as the person that had been at the residence earlier that day on 12/24.

That's ALL there is regarding the time MN was seen at J's home..No mention at all about SD & it's not clear what earlier in the day actually means...Regardless, this was all that was provided of the timeline & obviously needed to warrant her arrest with no bail along with, of course!, the evidence of her dumping the body which really sealed the deal.

I believe LE confirmed the times of the sightings of MN which was around 12:30p & again around 2p..I assume that means witnesses reported seeing her truck there 2x that day=she had come & gone.

Jonathan Foster -TX- :: 12/30/10 Probable cause hearing video by crankycrankerson - Photobucket@@AMEPARAM@@http://vid296.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jonathan%20Foster%20%20-TX-/123010probableCauseHearing001.mp4@@AMEPARAM@@vid29 6@@AMEPARAM@@296@@AMEPARAM@@mm166/crankycrankerson/Jonathan%20Foster%20%20-TX-/123010probableCauseHearing001@@AMEPARAM@@mp4

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 02:20 PM
How can she offer a plea if she's never met with an attorney? and if she does plea guilty then that's it right? case closed?

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe if the DA is seeking the DP it will have to go to trial. :waitasec:

JMHO

TexasLil
01-02-2011, 02:23 PM
My hinky meter is on OVERLOAD! :okay:

Mine has been on overload since the day Jonathan was reported missing. It's full of lies, lies and more lies... so many we don't know much of the real truth. I also don't think MN was alone when Jonathan died. Obviously LE has no evidence (yet) to prove anyone else was involved so the logical conclusion is she acted alone.

I do wish LE would go back to the night before Christmas eve and look at the timelines, possible parties, etc. Perhaps they've already done this.

Salem
01-02-2011, 02:27 PM
It is possible that she waves a trial?

She could. She could plead guilty and waive her right to a trial.

If the Prosecutor is asking for the DP - he/she will probably most likely negotiate taking the DP off the table for a guilty plea. The negotiations will depend heavily on what the prosecutor is willing to offer as far as sentence goes and if the perp will accept. I.e., The perp can say - I'll plead guilty if you take DP away and don't give me more than 25 years.

Pros can counter with - you plead guilty and we will go for life imprison without parole.

Perp can say yes or no. If perp says no, in this case, it is my opinion that the prosecutor will then proceed to trial with the DP on the table.

I don't think the Prosecution will give up the DP for anything less than LWOP.

Salem

LandAuxvasse
01-02-2011, 02:28 PM
It seems that the only reference to someone picking up the phone while mom is driving home is from a reporter. No direct quote, so I'm going to believe it's a paraphrase and not paraphrased well since the actual references we hear from LE say she called the home from work.

MOO :twocents:

cloudajo
01-02-2011, 02:30 PM
cloudajo,

Do you recall a VIDEO where AD speaks about driving home etc.?

Thank you so much for all the info you are posting.

Not to say it doesn't exist, but I don't remember seeing a video of her speaking about driving home.

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 02:36 PM
TY for a great explanation Salem. :)

I know there has been no announcement of the intent on filing for the DP, but personally I do believe this will go straight to trial with no offer of LWOP especially since this is Texas.

But the above are just old Boz's thoughts.

JMHO

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:38 PM
How can she offer a plea if she's never met with an attorney? and if she does plea guilty then that's it right? case closed?

Mona may have a "temp" public defender with her when she goes to court on Monday OR she just may go in front of the Judge without one.

Chances of Mona pleaded "guilty" is capital murder charges are "slimmer to none".

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:40 PM
I so remember AD on video talking about driving home and getting in the house calling Jonathan ...

lynnb
01-02-2011, 02:40 PM
Not to say it doesn't exist, but I don't remember seeing a video of her speaking about driving home.

so far I've only seen it in print
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/30/woman-charged-murder-case-missing-houston-year-old/

JBean
01-02-2011, 02:41 PM
Mona may have a "temp" public defender with her when she goes to court on Monday OR she just may go in front of the Judge without one.

Chances of Mona pleaded "guilty" is capital murder charges are "skimmer to none".
and closer to none. won't happen without a plea in place.

lynnb
01-02-2011, 02:41 PM
I so remember AD on video talking about driving home and getting in the house calling Jonathan ...

I'm looking PattyG.

Lera213
01-02-2011, 02:50 PM
Well if a camera is allowed in the court room tomorrow we all will get to hear her voice.

So said my reply from 2click ;0)

Patty G
01-02-2011, 02:50 PM
I so remember AD on video talking about driving home and getting in the house calling Jonathan ...

I even think DD was standing with her.

Lera213
01-02-2011, 02:52 PM
I wouldn't put to much weight into what they said because frankly I can see them saying something that isn't factual because LE told them not to reveal anything. Them not knowing how to handle the media might have strayed from the truth.

NSS
01-02-2011, 02:55 PM
I'm not yet convinced that the phone calls were threatening in any way to Jonathan.

If AD had been alarmed, she'd have either called LE on her way home if seriously alarmed, or called upon her arrival home.

Since the is an hour plus where AD call friends and checks locally (as is perfectly normal) before calling LE, I am led to believe that there were no red flags at this point.

Threatening calls then a missing child would equal a greater urgency than a wandered off 12 year old.

Crosby87
01-02-2011, 02:55 PM
Yes, it will be for her to hear her charges, plead and ask about if she has an attorney or needs one.

Is that called an 'Arraignment'?

Bodhi
01-02-2011, 03:00 PM
Regarding the last calls made to Mom at work from the home where JF lived and was abudcted from: I think the telephone was taken to place calls from outside the home. Someone else had done an experiment (thanks) that showed you could talk for up to about a block before the phone died. Why else would she have taken the phone? Fingerprints? Not that out of place if she had been there before to visit SE.

I can tell you in feet how far our cordless phone works: 300. I used to take it out to the street to meet the elementary school bus and our driveway is 300 feet long. The model we had years ago would only work until 2/3 of the way. The current model is about 4 years old. So I assume newer ones would have an even longer range.

Since it's Sunday and the Patriots are playing, I should have said ours would come in a football-field away from its base.

With all the buildingss and vehicles around in a congested area, MN could have been using the phone from inside her truck, been close to the cottage, and not have been obvious. Just occurred to me too that she could have been within sight on the cottage watching for AD to come home and see whether an alarm was raised right away. Since she went back to the cottage after dumping the body, presumably she relished watching how people were reacting. Like being the puppetmaster.

Bodhi
01-02-2011, 03:03 PM
I wouldn't put to much weight into what they said because frankly I can see them saying something that isn't factual because LE told them not to reveal anything. Them not knowing how to handle the media might have strayed from the truth.

Plus, AD must have been scared out of her mind! I don't think I would be coherent in those circumstances.

peeples
01-02-2011, 03:04 PM
I can tell you in feet how far our cordless phone works: 300. I used to take it out to the street to meet the elementary school bus and our driveway is 300 feet long. The model we had years ago would only work until 2/3 of the way. The current model is about 4 years old. So I assume newer ones would have an even longer range.

Since it's Sunday and the Patriots are playing, I should have said ours would come in a football-field away from its base.

With all the buildingss and vehicles around in a congested area, MN could have been using the phone from inside her truck, been close to the cottage, and not have been obvious. Just occurred to me too that she could have been within sight on the cottage watching for AD to come home and see whether an alarm was raised right away. Since she went back to the cottage after dumping the body, presumably she relished watching how people were reacting. Like being the puppetmaster.

I was using ours from 1998 1999 or 2000 and it worked to the other side of the block (exact opposite of where our house sits), as soon as i tried to cross the street off our block it completely cut out. So yeah newer ones would have even better range.

Quester
01-02-2011, 03:05 PM
Re the missing phone, I’d like to know:

How many phones in the SE/AD/JF home/cottage?

When MN visited JF at 12:30pm, and IF JF placed the call to AD at work at this time looking for SE’s number and wasn’t connected to AD, I wonder if MN took the phone with her at that time and JF didn’t notice or think to tell DD when he visited at 1:45pm.

If MN took the phone and she was nearby (within a block as a WSer up-thread tested & stated [thanks]), MN could monitor if JF received any calls and/or could listen in to any conversation JF had between MN’s visits to the cottage.

Any reports of the missing phone having been found and, if so, where?

Address of AD’s place of work? [for purposes of knowing the distance from the home/cottage and approximate time to travel from one to the other.]

lynnb
01-02-2011, 03:12 PM
well if there's a video of Mom saying she called the house repeatedly...I can't find it...sorry

LandAuxvasse
01-02-2011, 03:14 PM
Patty, this is the video where AD and DD are standing giving an interview of sorts and she says she called for Jonathan a few times... I think this is a different clip but maybe the same interview where she starts to discuss the calls and DD tells her not to give too many details:

http://www.click2houston.com/video/26292747/index.html

MOO :twocents:

amysmom
01-02-2011, 03:25 PM
I also feel that DD was on his way to being framed and arrested without that videotape. IMO MN knew he'd been there, knew he'd previously slapped the boy, and already had a story in place in case she was picked up.

A couple of things I don't understand though are why on earth would she do this on a carpet in an apt? Did she make a good attempt to cover her tracks or just go to her sister's and act like this never happened after Xmas Eve. I also don't understand when the "threats" came in. Was that on AD's car ride home or back at the office? Because if that was the case, I can't imagine thinking that he'd just run off for a bit. Thanks!

sbm

I also think DD may have gone down for this IF poor J was never found.

She actually made NO attempt to cover her tracks from all the evidence left in her apt, the risk of being seen at J's, her stupidity picking up the phone, & the nonchalant dumping of the body.

I can't wait to hear what these "threats" were...I can't even attempt a good guess. :loser:

Mom did say she thought he may be outside playing around the complex (looked for him) which now that you mention it doesn't make much sense knowing a strange woman was there & had also made threats. :waitasec:

lynnb
01-02-2011, 03:32 PM
sbm

I also think DD may have gone down for this IF poor J was never found.

She actually made NO attempt to cover her tracks from all the evidence left in her apt, the risk of being seen at J's, her stupidity picking up the phone, & the nonchalant dumping of the body.

I can't wait to hear what these "threats" were...I can't even attempt a good guess. :loser:

Mom did say she thought he may be outside playing around the complex (looked for him) which now that you mention it doesn't make much sense knowing a strange woman was there & had also made threats. :waitasec:
Wasn't it also reported at one point that a woman had called her place of work and said it's an emergency? but then was disconnected/hung up? Could that be translated into a threatening message?

LandAuxvasse
01-02-2011, 03:36 PM
In the second video on this site http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7866784&status=ok AD talks about the phone call where she heard the woman's voice and then her son answer and then the phone went dead.

It looks like there were a lot of reporters filming AD and DD that afternoon, I believe it was the 27th, as these are all in the home and the parents are wearing the same clothes. I'm just posting the videos where mom is talking during this time to try to help find where she may have discussed making calls on her drive home.

MOO :twocents:

Crosby87
01-02-2011, 03:39 PM
The Houston Chronicle report on December 30 didn't say AD unlocked the door when she arrived at SE's cottage yet in the video where AD is telling people to look for her son out there, she said the door was locked when she arrived home and a poster said AD was referring to the door at SE's.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7356276.html


<snip>

When she opened the door moments later, cartoons were still on the TV, and a game was up on the computer screen. A can of Tootsie rolls sat on the computer desk.

It is important to know if the door was locked with a key by the perp when they left with JF. IMO a perp wouldn't stop to lock the door behind them.

Is there more than one exit to SE's cottage? I haven't seen a floor plan of SE's cottage or heard LE confirm whether the door was locked or open when AD arrived.

Are LE claiming MN lifted a naked corpse from the truck bed with no protective clothing? TIA

Dear Prudence
01-02-2011, 03:41 PM
sbm

I also think DD may have gone down for this IF poor J was never found.

She actually made NO attempt to cover her tracks from all the evidence left in her apt, the risk of being seen at J's, her stupidity picking up the phone, & the nonchalant dumping of the body.

I can't wait to hear what these "threats" were...I can't even attempt a good guess. :loser:

Mom did say she thought he may be outside playing around the complex (looked for him) which now that you mention it doesn't make much sense knowing a strange woman was there & had also made threats. :waitasec:

That's what makes no sense to me also. I would love to know what they were thinking that night. Who did they think this woman was? The police weren't convinced it was an abduction until Monday. So all day Christmas, all the next day, what was everyone thinking happened?

Patty G
01-02-2011, 03:48 PM
In the second video on this site http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7866784&status=ok AD talks about the phone call where she heard the woman's voice and then her son answer and then the phone went dead.

It looks like there were a lot of reporters filming AD and DD that afternoon, I believe it was the 27th, as these are all in the home and the parents are wearing the same clothes. I'm just posting the videos where mom is talking during this time to try to help find where she may have discussed making calls on her drive home.

MOO :twocents:

Thank you. There is a longer version of that interview, and I believe this is before the story was changed.

amysmom
01-02-2011, 03:50 PM
Regarding the last calls made to Mom at work from the home where JF lived and was abudcted from: I think the telephone was taken to place calls from outside the home. Someone else had done an experiment (thanks) that showed you could talk for up to about a block before the phone died. Why else would she have taken the phone? Fingerprints? Not that out of place if she had been there before to visit SE.

Some speculate J took the phone but where did he keep it? IIRC, he didn't take a coat with him or anything else that would've helped him to hide it from MN...If MN took the phone it would do nothing to prove she wasn't IN the house while talking on it..The reason could've been the fingerprints but weren't they already all over the house? At that time MN was in a major rush to get away so maybe it wasn't even intentional.

I still think he took the stuffed animal & that MN made up some BS story that his mom wanted him to go with her & told him to grab something to take along..As far as we know nobody saw them walking to the truck but they also didn't see MN leaving at all.

If J came out any other way (rug/container) why has it been reported nothing else was missing from the home?

I'm sure we don't have ALL the info LE does (mom told to also keep quiet about certain things?) so there's probably many of our thoughts/theories that will turn out to be way off base.

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 03:50 PM
sbm

I also think DD may have gone down for this IF poor J was never found.

She actually made NO attempt to cover her tracks from all the evidence left in her apt, the risk of being seen at J's, her stupidity picking up the phone, & the nonchalant dumping of the body.

I can't wait to hear what these "threats" were...I can't even attempt a good guess. :loser:

Mom did say she thought he may be outside playing around the complex (looked for him) which now that you mention it doesn't make much sense knowing a strange woman was there & had also made threats. :waitasec:

That is a very scary thought that DD could have gone down for this.
Maybe it was part of MN's plan that when she saw DD come and go at 1.45, she had a person to pin it on, either directly by her or by assuming LE.
DD probably just walked over to the cottage, no car, explains why neighbors did not see him.
After 1.45 , he could have gone to work or another place where people continuously saw him till after 6.00 pm. An airtight alibi IMO.
If MN did this before, other cases with circumstantial evidence that are supposedly solved, should also be re examined. That could have the wrong person in jail.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 03:52 PM
Patty, this is the video where AD and DD are standing giving an interview of sorts and she says she called for Jonathan a few times... I think this is a different clip but maybe the same interview where she starts to discuss the calls and DD tells her not to give too many details:

http://www.click2houston.com/video/26292747/index.html

MOO :twocents:

Thank you. This video is AD talking about JF suppose to go home and get a video and then go back to the babysitter. WELL we all know how that story went. :furious:

There were discussion early on on where did the story about the video and babysitter first start ... with this interview.

lynnb
01-02-2011, 03:59 PM
Thank you. This video is AD talking about JF suppose to go home and get a video and then go back to the babysitter. WELL we all know how that story went. :furious:

There were discussion early on on where did the story about the video and babysitter first start ... with this interview.

You bring up a question that has been bugging me. If Mom originally reported Jonathan as missing when he left the babysitters down the street to get a video game from home....does that mean Mom originally called the police to come to the apt she had previously been living in when she reported him missing? (did I explain that right?) If so, then LE was at the wrong scene of the crime at the very beginning.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 04:03 PM
Respectfully I post:

Please stick these video links in the media forum for reference with a little snip of what AD or DD stated NOT what the reporter states. Thank you.

TX - Jonathan Foster 12, Found Deceased Media Links - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

At times, LE will ask the media for their footage of what others stated to them. :)

Patty G
01-02-2011, 04:06 PM
You bring up a question that has been bugging me. If Mom originally reported Jonathan as missing when he left the babysitters down the street to get a video game from home....does that mean Mom originally called the police to come to the apt she had previously been living in when she reported him missing? (did I explain that right?) If so, then LE was at the wrong scene of the crime at the very beginning.

Oh noooooooooooo, that hurts my head. :banghead:

I would have to assume, based on the first story, that AD met LE at the babysitters, of which, is her roommate. I can't imagine that AD went to DD's apartment and met them there, however, based on how this case started out, nothing would surprise me.

NSS
01-02-2011, 04:15 PM
sbm

I also think DD may have gone down for this IF poor J was never found.

She actually made NO attempt to cover her tracks from all the evidence left in her apt, the risk of being seen at J's, her stupidity picking up the phone, & the nonchalant dumping of the body.

I can't wait to hear what these "threats" were...I can't even attempt a good guess. :loser:

Mom did say she thought he may be outside playing around the complex (looked for him) which now that you mention it doesn't make much sense knowing a strange woman was there & had also made threats. :waitasec:

Except that LE declared that every second for everyone was accounted for, so the bolded section is unlikely.

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 04:27 PM
Except that LE declared that every second for everyone was accounted for, so the bolded section is unlikely.

But was that not after the surveillance video was discovered at Rolled Alloys?
They did not question Mona till Tuesday if I recall.

Strawberry Fields
01-02-2011, 04:28 PM
I can tell you in feet how far our cordless phone works: 300. I used to take it out to the street to meet the elementary school bus and our driveway is 300 feet long. The model we had years ago would only work until 2/3 of the way. The current model is about 4 years old. So I assume newer ones would have an even longer range.

Since it's Sunday and the Patriots are playing, I should have said ours would come in a football-field away from its base.

With all the buildingss and vehicles around in a congested area, MN could have been using the phone from inside her truck, been close to the cottage, and not have been obvious. Just occurred to me too that she could have been within sight on the cottage watching for AD to come home and see whether an alarm was raised right away. Since she went back to the cottage after dumping the body, presumably she relished watching how people were reacting. Like being the puppetmaster.

My mother actually lives next door to us in our garage apartment and when she comes over here (was here on Christmas Eve) she brings her cordless phone and she gets her calls from her sisters (without missing a single piece of gossip) LOL.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 04:32 PM
FWIW

This is what I am thinking, at the moment, subject to change any second.

All the stuff we heard about the babysitter, JF going for the video, phone calls at work, threatening phone calls at work, driving home in her car, repeatedly calling the house as she drives, reaches the woman on the other end with the raspy voice as she is still driving, asks to speak to JF, is you mother's name Angela etc., etc., arrives at the house, no one home, TV on, no struggle in the house, only shirt missing, shoes and stuffed animal is the story first told.

Per LE at Press Conference: At about 2:00, Jonathan places a phone call to his mother’s place of work. He speaks to one of her co-workers, asks her a couple of questions, the mother gets a little - the mother finds out about it, gets a little concerned, it’s about time for her to go home, she calls the house, and that’s when she speaks to the woman I guess that everybody heard about, with the, kind of the raspy voice. She gets disconnected, she immediately goes home, and Jonathan is gone.

NSS
01-02-2011, 04:34 PM
But was that not after the surveillance video was discovered at Rolled Alloys?
They did not question Mona till Tuesday if I recall.

I'm reasonably sure that all alibis and whereabouts for DD would have been checked without that tape. Despite DD being the last person who saw Jonathan alive, they have cleared him by stating that Mona acted alone.

They knew this because of microscopic checking of all individuals.

Surely this would have been the case with or without the tape, otherwise it appears that without the arrest of MN, then DD would be arrested instead, with no evidence and a solid alibi etc.

Is Texas LE really that fickle?

howfortunate
01-02-2011, 04:42 PM
I'm reasonably sure that all alibis and whereabouts for DD would have been checked without that tape. Despite DD being the last person who saw Jonathan alive, they have cleared him by stating that Mona acted alone.

They knew this because of microscopic checking of all individuals.

Surely this would have been the case with or without the tape, otherwise it appears that without the arrest of MN, then DD would be arrested instead, with no evidence and a solid alibi etc.

Is Texas LE really that fickle?

Prob not arrested, but like JonBenet's parents, never quite free of suspicion....

lynnb
01-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Oh noooooooooooo, that hurts my head. :banghead:

I would have to assume, based on the first story, that AD met LE at the babysitters, of which, is her roommate. I can't imagine that AD went to DD's apartment and met them there, however, based on how this case started out, nothing would surprise me.

If Mom initially met LE at the babysitters/room mates apt, then she would have had to initially claim that her previous apt was the babysitters apt. that Jonathan was going to for the video.
ok...that made my head hurt. nevermind.

Reannan
01-02-2011, 04:48 PM
But was that not after the surveillance video was discovered at Rolled Alloys?
They did not question Mona till Tuesday if I recall.

I believe LE had spoken to Mona before the body was found. She herself came forward and informed someone - not sure if it was LE or family, but she placed herself at the crime scene because she told them she had been at the apartment Jonathan was taken from. She told them she had stopped by to "ask a question" or something. Now, I don't recall if she told them she was there to get SE's (the roommate/babysitter) phone number. Anyone stumble on that link which verifies why MN was there, I would appreciate it. When the surveillance video was found and a truck like MN's was seen with someone getting out of it, the officers that were reviewing the video sent the information to the officers that had spoken with MN earlier. I really want to know what did MN originally give as her reason for being there?? If it was to get SE's phone number and then AD received a call from Jonathan asking for that same phone number, I will be very confused and have to rethink a lot of things. :waitasec:

SailorMoon
01-02-2011, 04:51 PM
Here is just ONE thing I don't get -- if true. Why would HE come by to check on him, with only 15 minutes remaining of the mom's work day? If that's true even....

And of course I am so sick that this baby didn't get to see Christmas day or any presents. WTH is wrong with people??? What is it going to take??

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 04:56 PM
I'm reasonably sure that all alibis and whereabouts for DD would have been checked without that tape. Despite DD being the last person who saw Jonathan alive, they have cleared him by stating that Mona acted alone.

They knew this because of microscopic checking of all individuals.

Surely this would have been the case with or without the tape, otherwise it appears that without the arrest of MN, then DD would be arrested instead, with no evidence and a solid alibi etc.

Is Texas LE really that fickle?

No, I do not think Texas LE is fickle at all. But that tape discovery, after body was found, gave them a nice short window to check alibis. 2pm thru 6 pm. It was a super break in the case for LE and allowed probably for definite elimination of other parties in this case IMO. And nailed MN !!!!! Sadly, sometimes the wrong person is arrested/ convicted and/or has to live the rest of his/her life under a cloud of suspicion.Tapes are like this are even better than DNA evidence IMO. Very hard for defense to argue with or nitpick.

lynnb
01-02-2011, 04:59 PM
Here is just ONE thing I don't get -- if true. Why would HE come by to check on him, with only 15 minutes remaining of the mom's work day? If that's true even....

And of course I am so sick that this baby didn't get to see Christmas day or any presents. WTH is wrong with people??? What is it going to take??

what confuses me is that in all the talk of phonecalls,hangups,disconnects,raspy women and threats.....not one neighbor or someone close by was called to get to that apartment ASAP! Apparantly 15minutes meant life or death for this child if we are to believe the timeline given.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 05:00 PM
"I got two phone calls at work," mother Angela Davis said. "My job told me that my son called one time saying it was an emergency, and I never got that call. The second time I got a phone call from my boss. She said that it was a lady, and by the time I got to the phone they hung up."

http://www.click2houston.com/news/26298521/detail.html#story


I took a nap and haven't completely caught up, so it may have been reposted already, but I'm looking for the interview of Angela and the stepdad where Angela is talking about the phone calls, the stepdad is next to her, may have his arm around her, and she says something about the woman on the phone, and the stepdad says "Don't give all the details."

I thought I had bookmarked it, but I didn't. I've been searching and I can't find it. I think it may have been peeples who posted it. It was peeples who called our attention to it yesterday or the day before, then somebody posted it, but I'll be darned if I can find it.

Thank you for any help!

ETA: I believe the quote above is directly from the video.

georgiajean
01-02-2011, 05:02 PM
(respectfully snipped)
A couple of things I don't understand though are why on earth would she do this on a carpet in an apt? Did she make a good attempt to cover her tracks or just go to her sister's and act like this never happened after Xmas Eve. I also don't understand when the "threats" came in. Was that on AD's car ride home or back at the office? Because if that was the case, I can't imagine thinking that he'd just run off for a bit. Thanks!

My thinking is that MN may have hurt him in the house on the carpet, and then burned his body completely outside. Thus there was some evidence on the carpet inside, and more outside. Just my theory, I don't have anything to back it up except for the items taken from outside, and the notion that more damage/smell would have been in the house if the totality of the burning took place inside. IMO.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 05:07 PM
Found it!

Video w/stepdad saying to Angela "Don't give all the details."

http://www.click2houston.com/video/26297603/index.html

ETA: The quote in my post above is direct from this video.

ETA again: Just moving the quote in here so it'll be here if I search for this again. I'm lazy. :)

"I got two phone calls at work," mother Angela Davis said. "My job told me that my son called one time saying it was an emergency, and I never got that call. The second time I got a phone call from my boss. She said that it was a lady, and by the time I got to the phone they hung up."

http://www.click2houston.com/news/26298521/detail.html#story

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 05:08 PM
Here is just ONE thing I don't get -- if true. Why would HE come by to check on him, with only 15 minutes remaining of the mom's work day? If that's true even....

And of course I am so sick that this baby didn't get to see Christmas day or any presents. WTH is wrong with people??? What is it going to take??

He might not even have known when AD would be coming home, they did not live together anymore. Besides , he has been cleared by LE. That is good enough for me.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 05:09 PM
Here is just ONE thing I don't get -- if true. Why would HE come by to check on him, with only 15 minutes remaining of the mom's work day? If that's true even....




Many of us would love to know the answer to that question.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 05:12 PM
Note in that video the detective saying the phone calls were between 1:45 and 2:10. Remember the mention of "25 minutes later, Angela arrived home, and Jonathan was gone"? Well, 1:45 to 2:10 is 25 minutes, so that's probably where that comes from.

I know, I know. Captain Obvious. Takes me a while. :)

BeanE
01-02-2011, 05:14 PM
Many of us would love to know the answer to that question.

Patty I think it was you upthread asked if anyone remembered Angela saying when she got home, she called out to Jonathan. I just read that article this morning. I don't think I posted it, and I don't remember which news channel it was. :(

Patty G
01-02-2011, 05:14 PM
"I got two phone calls at work," mother Angela Davis said. "My job told me that my son called one time saying it was an emergency, and I never got that call. The second time I got a phone call from my boss. She said that it was a lady, and by the time I got to the phone they hung up."

http://www.click2houston.com/news/26298521/detail.html#story


I took a nap and haven't completely caught up, so it may have been reposted already, but I'm looking for the interview of Angela and the stepdad where Angela is talking about the phone calls, the stepdad is next to her, may have his arm around her, and she says something about the woman on the phone, and the stepdad says "Don't give all the details."

I thought I had bookmarked it, but I didn't. I've been searching and I can't find it. I think it may have been peeples who posted it. It was peeples who called our attention to it yesterday or the day before, then somebody posted it, but I'll be darned if I can find it.

Thank you for any help!

ETA: I believe the quote above is directly from the video.

You are looking for the same video interview that I am. I am so glad that you saw that video also.

CASH
01-02-2011, 05:15 PM
I know that MN claimed she had visited the home at 12:30 and saw JF. But has this been proven? The reason I ask is that many of the theories I have read here online suggest that her earlier visit was to case out the joint. But maybe there was no earlier visit. She may have lied about that to establish her presence near the home in case someone had seen her. She may also have lied to insinuate that there was someone in there with JF. So, I guess my question is, has it been proven by witnesses that MN was there at 12:30? I certainly don't believe anything MN has to say on the subject.

georgiajean
01-02-2011, 05:15 PM
I believe LE had spoken to Mona before the body was found. She herself came forward and informed someone - not sure if it was LE or family, but she placed herself at the crime scene because she told them she had been at the apartment Jonathan was taken from. She told them she had stopped by to "ask a question" or something. Now, I don't recall if she told them she was there to get SE's (the roommate/babysitter) phone number. Anyone stumble on that link which verifies why MN was there, I would appreciate it. When the surveillance video was found and a truck like MN's was seen with someone getting out of it, the officers that were reviewing the video sent the information to the officers that had spoken with MN earlier. I really want to know what did MN originally give as her reason for being there?? If it was to get SE's phone number and then AD received a call from Jonathan asking for that same phone number, I will be very confused and have to rethink a lot of things. :waitasec:

My understanding is that JF made a call to his mom's work before noon, asking for SE's phone number. Because MN placed herself at SE's house at 12:30, and witnesses saw her talking to JF at that time, I think it has been assumed that those two things are related--JF calling for SE's phone number and MN stopping by. Perhaps MN called the house earlier, JF said SE wasn't there, MN asked for SE's phone number, JF didn't know it and called his mom. Then MN stopped by later "Just to check if SE had come back yet."

MN said her reason for stopping by was to see SE. Logically, it makes sense that MN asked for SE, and probably wouldn't have alarmed JF much. MN had been around, so she wasn't exactly a stranger. And clearly she knows how to put on the charm, so she may have put JF at ease with her words, actions, and expressions. I think that going there, and asking about SE, was MN's way of casing the joint and double-checking time-frames. She may even have asked if SD was around, and JF may have told her he was coming by to check on him at 1:30 or something, and that his mom got off work at 2. Of course, we will never know what was said/done at SE's home. But phone records could provide a good picture of who was called, when, from where.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 05:17 PM
You are looking for the same video interview that I am. I am so glad that you saw that video also.

Great minds and all that. :)

Patty G
01-02-2011, 05:19 PM
Note in that video the detective saying the phone calls were between 1:45 and 2:10. Remember the mention of "25 minutes later, Angela arrived home, and Jonathan was gone"? Well, 1:45 to 2:10 is 25 minutes, so that's probably where that comes from.

I know, I know. Captain Obvious. Takes me a while. :)

However, the detective didn't mention that JF was being checked on at the house at 1:45 PM when the phone calls started between 1:45 PM and 2:10 PM.

Ohhhhhhhhhhh! Big Sigh!

blondekj
01-02-2011, 05:22 PM
My thinking is that MN may have hurt him in the house on the carpet, and then burned his body completely outside. Thus there was some evidence on the carpet inside, and more outside. Just my theory, I don't have anything to back it up except for the items taken from outside, and the notion that more damage/smell would have been in the house if the totality of the burning took place inside. IMO.

Since she killed him and dumped the body the same day she abducted Jonathan, that would take some real nerve to burn a body, outside, in broad daylight.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 05:23 PM
I know that MN claimed she had visited the home at 12:30 and saw JF. But has this been proven? The reason I ask is that many of the theories I have read here online suggest that her earlier visit was to case out the joint. But maybe there was no earlier visit. She may have lied about that to establish her presence near the home in case someone had seen her. She may also have lied to insinuate that there was someone in there with JF. So, I guess my question is, has it been proven by witnesses that MN was there at 12:30? I certainly don't believe anything MN has to say on the subject.

We actually seem to have a total of three possible appearances by Mona. One "in the morning", one at 12:30, and the third "at the time of the phone calls" (about 2:00pm).

The morning is claimed by Mona, and I haven't found any witnesses. The 12:30 and "around the time of the phone calls" both have articles that say they have witnesses, but both seem to be the same - where Mona is seen pulling up in her truck.

Personally, I am thinking that there was only one appearance, around 2. Possibly she pulled up, saw the stepdad, and waited in the truck until he was gone. Then went in to the apartment and got Jonathan.

I'm thinking that Jonathan may even have thought it was his stepdad returning, and so just opened the door right up, and she took him by surprise.

Bodhi
01-02-2011, 05:24 PM
Here is just ONE thing I don't get -- if true. Why would HE come by to check on him, with only 15 minutes remaining of the mom's work day? If that's true even....

And of course I am so sick that this baby didn't get to see Christmas day or any presents. WTH is wrong with people??? What is it going to take??

Myabe she didn't usually get off work so early in the day. Perhaps she was getting off early because it was Christmas Eve. JF was on school vacation all week. So maybe DD came by every day that week around that time. My children are 12 and 14 and sleep late and stay up later on vacation. They don't usually have lunch til around 2. So it seems likely to me that 1:45 would be about half way through the time when JF would be awake and by himself. And his stepfather was touching base and making sure he ate.

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 05:25 PM
I believe LE had spoken to Mona before the body was found. She herself came forward and informed someone - not sure if it was LE or family, but she placed herself at the crime scene because she told them she had been at the apartment Jonathan was taken from. She told them she had stopped by to "ask a question" or something. Now, I don't recall if she told them she was there to get SE's (the roommate/babysitter) phone number. Anyone stumble on that link which verifies why MN was there, I would appreciate it. When the surveillance video was found and a truck like MN's was seen with someone getting out of it, the officers that were reviewing the video sent the information to the officers that had spoken with MN earlier. I really want to know what did MN originally give as her reason for being there?? If it was to get SE's phone number and then AD received a call from Jonathan asking for that same phone number, I will be very confused and have to rethink a lot of things. :waitasec:

It is possible LE tried to interview MN earlier but could not locate her. MN was at her sisters for four days, starting with Christmas day. I have no clue where the sister lives but that would place MN back at her apartment again on Tuesday.
IIRC , MN told AD she was there at 12.30 when she visited AD after 6 pm on Christmas eve.

cloudajo
01-02-2011, 05:29 PM
I believe LE had spoken to Mona before the body was found. She herself came forward and informed someone - not sure if it was LE or family, but she placed herself at the crime scene because she told them she had been at the apartment Jonathan was taken from. She told them she had stopped by to "ask a question" or something. Now, I don't recall if she told them she was there to get SE's (the roommate/babysitter) phone number. Anyone stumble on that link which verifies why MN was there, I would appreciate it. When the surveillance video was found and a truck like MN's was seen with someone getting out of it, the officers that were reviewing the video sent the information to the officers that had spoken with MN earlier. I really want to know what did MN originally give as her reason for being there?? If it was to get SE's phone number and then AD received a call from Jonathan asking for that same phone number, I will be very confused and have to rethink a lot of things. :waitasec:

Here's some info on that. According to Houston Chronicle, MN stopped by AD/SE’s house Friday night and told AD she had come to the house that morning looking for SE, and that Jonathan answered the door wearing no shirt, and it seemed like someone was in the house with him.

At the press conference, LE said that on Tuesday, detectives were looking for Mona because there was information that she had talked to Jonathan at about 12:30 on the day he went missing (Friday).

Houston Chronicle
That night, she said, Nelson stopped by the house. She told Davis she had come to the house that morning looking for Ennamorato, and that Jonathan had answered the door wearing no shirt, and it seemed like someone was in the house with him.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/7356276.html (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/chronicle/7356276.html)

KVUE

Surveillance video from a business near the dump site showed a woman in a silver pickup truck stopping on the side of the road, taking a body out of the bed of the truck and leaving it in a ditch around 6 p.m. on Friday.

The body wasn’t discovered until Tuesday.

Meanwhile, detectives were looking for Nelson to question her – not as a suspect, but because she was said to have spoken to the boy around 12:30 p.m. the day he disappeared.

Investigators working the dump site believed the body was that of a child, so when they got the surveillance video, they sent an image of the woman and the truck to the detectives who were questioning Nelson.

Police said though the video appeared to show Nelson and her truck, she initially denied it was her.

http://www.kvue.com/news/state/112724844.html (http://www.kvue.com/news/state/112724844.html)

HPD – Press Conference
Captain David Gott
Transcribed

With that information, they immediately contact our other homicide detectives who are working the scene over on Oak Street and a couple other locations over there looking for witnesses and canvassing the neighborhood. They were able to forward a photo of that truck to those detectives over there. A couple of the guys were looking for this woman named Mona at that time because there was information, not because she was a suspect in the case at that time, but there was information that she had actually talked to Jonathan at about 12:30 on the day he was missing. So just trying to find out what she had to say. While they were at that location they got the picture of the truck, they noticed that Mona’s driving a truck that looks remarkably similar. Obviously then, some of the focus gets a little bit stronger on Mona.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7872370 (http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=7872370)

georgiajean
01-02-2011, 05:31 PM
That is a very scary thought that DD could have gone down for this.
Maybe it was part of MN's plan that when she saw DD come and go at 1.45, she had a person to pin it on, either directly by her or by assuming LE.
DD probably just walked over to the cottage, no car, explains why neighbors did not see him.
After 1.45 , he could have gone to work or another place where people continuously saw him till after 6.00 pm. An airtight alibi IMO.
If MN did this before, other cases with circumstantial evidence that are supposedly solved, should also be re examined. That could have the wrong person in jail.

Once AD got home, I would imagine DD was one of her first calls, and once he arrived, they were each others alibi, correct?

georgiajean
01-02-2011, 05:37 PM
Since she killed him and dumped the body the same day she abducted Jonathan, that would take some real nerve to burn a body, outside, in broad daylight.

Good point! It got dark at 5:30.
That she is cocky and believes she is invincible is evident in her actions, so maybe she was nervy enough to burn him in her secluded patio. Everyone thought the house and garage apt. were empty, so maybe she didn't even have any direct neighbors.

cloudajo
01-02-2011, 05:42 PM
It is possible LE tried to interview MN earlier but could not locate her. MN was at her sisters for four days, starting with Christmas day. I have no clue where the sister lives but that would place MN back at her apartment again on Tuesday.
IIRC , MN told AD she was there at 12.30 when she visited AD after 6 pm on Christmas eve.

FYI, her sister she stayed with lives in southwest Houston (stated in video).

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7872780

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 05:44 PM
Once AD got home, I would imagine DD was one of her first calls, and once he arrived, they were each others alibi, correct?

Not only AD for DD's alibi, but possibly many other people too.

Bodhi
01-02-2011, 05:44 PM
Prob not arrested, but like JonBenet's parents, never quite free of suspicion....

Like Richard Ricci in the Elizabeth Smart case.

She was kidnapped in June. LE was convinced Richard Ricci kidnapped her. He went back to jail, on parole violations I think, and died in jail in August. LE continued to focus on him even though the only eyewitness (Elizabeth's sister) knew Ricci and said it wasn't Ricci him, even after she was able to put a name (Immanuel) to the kidnapper in October. Finally in Februrary or early March, the Smarts went public with the information over police objections and John Walsh broadcast the new information. The police dismissed that lead right up until Elizabeth was recovered with Immanuel because someone recognized him from America's Most Wanted story a few days earlier.

Terri Horman has not been charged in the kidnapping of her stepson; but most people (incuding me) think she was involved.

I agree that while the stepfather and/or mother may not have been charged if the dumping of Jonathan's body was not captured on surveillance video, they would still be under a cloud of suspicion. The general public would still think they were involved--just like the Ramseys and Richard Ricci.

Bodhi
01-02-2011, 05:49 PM
Since she killed him and dumped the body the same day she abducted Jonathan, that would take some real nerve to burn a body, outside, in broad daylight.

It's hiding in plain sight.

cloudajo
01-02-2011, 05:56 PM
Something to keep in mind. It appears from the pictures I've seen on video and Google/Bing that the brown house that JF and AD were living in with SE was somewhat secluded from the road.

The driveway off Oak St. leads back to the front of the house, and it is looks to be situated somewhat behind another house that is directly on Oak St. It looks like the back of the apartment complex is on one side.

amysmom
01-02-2011, 05:56 PM
Prob not arrested, but like JonBenet's parents, never quite free of suspicion....

I recently finished 'Perfect Murder Perfect Town' (JonBenet And The City Of Boulder) & after reading 621 pages I'm still not quite sure about her parent/s..The same goes for many in LE & the DA's office that handled (& botched?) the investigation..I can also include the author (Lawrence Schiller) to this list..So, because of that I totally agree with your take on what probably would've happened to DD & has happened to many parents (but mostly step-dads) that have had their missing & murdered children's cases go unsolved.

blondekj
01-02-2011, 06:02 PM
Good point! It got dark at 5:30.
That she is cocky and believes she is invincible is evident in her actions, so maybe she was nervy enough to burn him in her secluded patio. Everyone thought the house and garage apt. were empty, so maybe she didn't even have any direct neighbors.

Please remind me, what time was she spotted on video? In other words, was it still daylight or after sundown/dark when she dumped Jonathan's body?

BeanE
01-02-2011, 06:09 PM
Please remind me, what time was she spotted on video? In other words, was it still daylight or after sundown/dark when she dumped Jonathan's body?

Sunset in Houston on Dec 24 was 5:28 pm

Fri, 24 Dec 2010 07:13 17:28

http://www.happyzebra.com/timezones-worldclock/sunrisesunset.php?city=Houston

amysmom
01-02-2011, 06:13 PM
what confuses me is that in all the talk of phonecalls,hangups,disconnects,raspy women and threats.....not one neighbor or someone close by was called to get to that apartment ASAP! Apparantly 15minutes meant life or death for this child if we are to believe the timeline given.

If mom, in fact, spoke to MN (when the threats supposedly occurred) in her car just minutes from home I can see why nobody was called to check..OTH! Mom claims she was concerned enough about the call she was told about (nobody on line) that she rushed home..I wish we knew exactly what time that was & how long it takes mom to get home..Until then I'll remain confused but honestly I'm not too surprised mom didn't think to call anyone for reasons I will not (& can not) say.

dreamweaver
01-02-2011, 06:16 PM
Sunset in Houston on Dec 24 was 6:28 pm

Fri, 24 Dec 2010 07:13 17:28

http://www.happyzebra.com/timezones-worldclock/sunrisesunset.php?city=Houston

It was reported that Jonathon was abducted, murdered and tossed aside in about four hours time.

http://www.ksat.com/news/26323834/detail.html
----


http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/jonathan-foster-murdered-houston-boy-to-be-laid-to-rest-next-week-video
He will be laid to rest.

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 06:20 PM
FYI, her sister she stayed with lives in southwest Houston (stated in video).

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7872780

Tks so much. I wonder if that visit to sister was a spur of the moment thing and part of MN's plan. After she disclosed she was at AD's place at 12.30, she could have expected LE at her home. May be, MN even expected the body to be found sooner. And she could have said that somebody else entered her home and used it to murder Jonathan. Would explain all the evidence, she left behind and the careless discarding of body.However, she did not plan for the surveillance tape evidence.
Wonder if she left for her sister shortly after the visit to AD's place.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 06:37 PM
Looking at the time of sunset that day, and I think it was reported the video showed her dumping poor Jonathan's body about 6, it looks like she waited until just after dark.

Also, she had said she was driving around. There may be truth in that. She may have been driving around, looking for a spot, waiting for dark.

I feel like I'm beginning to get a feel for this woman. Ugly stuff. And scary. Poor Jonathan.

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 06:39 PM
Tks so much. I wonder if that visit to sister was a spur of the moment thing and part of MN's plan. After she disclosed she was at AD's place at 12.30, she could have expected LE at her home. May be, MN even expected the body to be found sooner. And she could have said that somebody else entered her home and used it to murder Jonathan. Would explain all the evidence, she left behind and the careless discarding of body.However, she did not plan for the surveillance tape evidence.
Wonder if she left for her sister shortly after the visit to AD's place.

Excellent thought rotterdam.
I have been wondering why in the world she was out visiting people and left all that evidence behind. Seems to me she would have been cleaning up that little place of hers.

JMHO

sreshowtime
01-02-2011, 06:42 PM
snipped from-http://www.click2houston.com/news/26298521/detail.html#story
"I got two phone calls at work," mother Angela Davis said. "My job told me that my son called one time saying it was an emergency, and I never got that call. The second time I got a phone call from my boss. She said that it was a lady, and by the time I got to the phone they hung up."

BBM- do you have any idea how PO'ed I would be about this, given what ultimately transpired?? GRRRR that is all I will say.

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 06:46 PM
Excellent thought rotterdam.
I have been wondering why in the world she was out visiting people and left all that evidence behind. Seems to me she would have been cleaning up that little place of hers.

JMHO

Heck, she could have even announced at AD's place that she was leaving several days to visit family. And who knows, she might have gotten away with it, except for that wonderful priceless surveillance tape.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 06:46 PM
She did it, imo. Her own words will be evidence against her.

If Jonathan's body was passed off to her to dump then why would her twine that was found in her home be binding his hands? Why would she take the time to burn him up with a welding torch in her home if she was just suppose to dump a container that she says she didn't even know held a body? She is vile, depraved and a pathological liar, imo.

Imo, it is so blatantly obvious no one had a thing to do with this sadistic horror but Mona Nelson.

Now was it for sexual purposes or just for the thrill of the kill? We may never learn what her motive was but her intent was pure evil.

imo

SailorMoon
01-02-2011, 06:47 PM
I'd be mad too....what kind of work did she do?

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 06:48 PM
I'd be mad too....what kind of work did she do?

maintenance and she was a welder.

Curious Me
01-02-2011, 06:50 PM
"David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN

Didn't MN scare Jonathan enough for him to mention her first visit to DD? Maybe he was more scared that he let someone in the house. Just seems like if MN frightened him at all on her first 12:30 visit that Jonathan would've told DD about it when he went there to check on the boy.

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 06:53 PM
Heck, she could have even announced at AD's place that she was leaving several days to visit family. And who knows, she might have gotten away with it, except for that wonderful priceless surveillance tape.

AMEN to that.
I am so thankful for that pesky video which has sealed her destiny.

jmho

LandAuxvasse
01-02-2011, 06:54 PM
"David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN

Didn't MN scare Jonathan enough for him to mention her first visit to DD? Maybe he was more scared that he let someone in the house. Just seems like if MN frightened him at all on her first 12:30 visit that Jonathan would've told DD about it when he went there to check on the boy.

Mona was known by Jonathan because she was friends with SE and had been to the cottage as a visitor in the past. He knew Mona because SE was his babysitter first, then AD moved in with SE. I don't think he had any thought of being afraid of her until the very end.

MOO :twocents:

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 06:56 PM
"David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN

Didn't MN scare Jonathan enough for him to mention her first visit to DD? Maybe he was more scared that he let someone in the house. Just seems like if MN frightened him at all on her first 12:30 visit that Jonathan would've told DD about it when he went there to check on the boy.

The time line on multiple phone calls is fuzzy. The first one IIRC was about roommate phone number, not an emergency. May be MN did not go into the house at that time and no reason for Jonathan to be alarmed.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 06:58 PM
"David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN

Didn't MN scare Jonathan enough for him to mention her first visit to DD? Maybe he was more scared that he let someone in the house. Just seems like if MN frightened him at all on her first 12:30 visit that Jonathan would've told DD about it when he went there to check on the boy.

I don't think Jonathan was scared of her. Children really are trusting and the police said that Mona was acquainted with Jonathan. So she wasnt a stranger. She probably was very nice and friendly to him. Most of these psychopaths can be very charming when they are luring their prey.

The fact that she made an issue out of Jonathan not having a shirt on chills me. When she saw him with no shirt on did she get pedophilia urges (gag) and then formed the intent to come back and lure him away?

imo

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 07:00 PM
AMEN to that.
I am so thankful for that pesky video which has sealed her destiny.

jmho

Can you even begin to imagine the horror a jury will feel as they watch that video?

imo

passionflower
01-02-2011, 07:00 PM
Did MN lawyer up???
What is the next legal step?
Any pressers scheduled?
Locals any new news?

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 07:02 PM
With the abundance of overwhelming evidence LE has I can certainly wait until trial to pinpoint other issues if I can stand to hear them then. So far this case has had the worst media coverage I have ever seen.

I totally believe LE when they say she acted alone. They have no reason to lie about it nor would they.

Some people are just wicked and I believe this case is a tough reminder of just that.

jmho

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 07:06 PM
I don't think Jonathan was scared of her. Children really are trusting and the police said that Mona was acquainted with Jonathan. So she wasnt a stranger. She probably was very nice and friendly to him. Most of these psychopaths can be very charming when they are luring their prey.

The fact that she made an issue out of Jonathan not having a shirt on chills me. When she saw him with no shirt on did she get pedophilia urges (gag) and then formed the intent to come back and lure him away?

imo

I think the "no shirt" was only made in reference to somebody else in the house, planting a seed of suspicion on a imaginary person. Doubt if there is any truth in it. All part of the careful planning of a premeditated murder.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 07:06 PM
With the abundance of overwhelming evidence LE has I can certainly wait until trial to pinpoint other issues if I can stand to hear them then. So far this case has had the worst media coverage I have ever seen.

I totally believe LE when they say she acted alone. They have no reason to lie about it nor would they.

Some people are just wicked and I believe this case is a tough reminder of just that.

jmho

It once again proves......wickedness and evilness is not reserved just for one gender.

imo

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 07:07 PM
Can you even begin to imagine the horror a jury will feel as they watch that video?

imo

I really don't want to.
This trial is going to be one of the hardest any jury has been a part of.
Recently there have been some bad ones, but honestly I believe this one will be more horrifying. :tears:

jmho

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 07:09 PM
I think the "no shirt" was only made in reference to somebody else in the house, planting a seed of suspicion on a imaginary person. Doubt if there is any truth in it. All part of the careful planning of a premeditated murder.

I first thought that too but now I am not so sure.

Over the years I have learned even pathological murderers will slip a little truth in among their lies.

I don't see why him coming to the door with his shirt off made her think someone was there. A lot of little boys walk around in their house without their shirts on. Yet she made a point to mention it like it stuck in her mind.

imo

nomoresorrow
01-02-2011, 07:11 PM
(BBM)"David Davis told investigators that Jonathan was home playing video games when he went to check on the boy at 1:45 p.m. Friday."

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/state/article/Burned-body-feared-that-of-missing-boy-925549.php#ixzz19uAtOuoN

Didn't MN scare Jonathan enough for him to mention her first visit to DD? Maybe he was more scared that he let someone in the house. Just seems like if MN frightened him at all on her first 12:30 visit that Jonathan would've told DD about it when he went there to check on the boy.

And, even if JF wasn't scared by MN's 12:30 pm visit, it's curious to me that it wasn't at least mentioned by JF to DD - even if in a nonchalant manner...
JMO ~

passionflower
01-02-2011, 07:12 PM
Did a little 12 year old boy coming to the door turn this <mod edit.> (woman) on?????

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 07:12 PM
It once again proves......wickedness and evilness is not reserved just for one gender.

imo

Neither knows the meaning of prejudice.

jmho

BOZGAL
01-02-2011, 07:16 PM
We may never know the WHAT or WHY of this heinous crime.

With all the cases over the years they are becoming more vile by the day.
This one absolutely boggles my mind and totally disgusts me to the core.

jmho

peeples
01-02-2011, 07:24 PM
I know where the roommate worked but am still wanting to know where mom worked so we can figure out how long it took her to drive home. Would help with timeline stuff which is driving me batty.

BeanE
01-02-2011, 07:34 PM
I first thought that too but now I am not so sure.

Over the years I have learned even pathological murderers will slip a little truth in among their lies.

I don't see why him coming to the door with his shirt off made her think someone was there. A lot of little boys walk around in their house without their shirts on. Yet she made a point to mention it like it stuck in her mind.

imo

I've noodled a bit on her psychology, whether her say it "seemed like" someone else was there, was actually a sort of little play on words, a little clever joke she was making to herself.

Sometimes this type, like Joseph Duncan, refer to themselves when they commit these horrors as if they are a different entity. It sometimes is misunderstood or mistaken as a multiple personality. But it's not. To me, they seem to hold almost a reverence for the part of their personality that is able to commit these horrific acts.

So I've noodled whether she has that same oddity. And since she had gone back over to Jonathan's house, where his grieving and suffering parents were, for what I can only believe was an opportunity to 'enjoy' the 'fruits of her labors', whether, as I said, her reference to it "seeming like" another person was there, was actually a clever play with words, and with the minds of Jonathan's parents, on her own self, who was there to commit atrocities on their little boy.

I will be interested as this goes along to hear more about this from the experts and profilers and psychiatrists.

Just some thoughts.

Reannan
01-02-2011, 07:36 PM
Since she killed him and dumped the body the same day she abducted Jonathan, that would take some real nerve to burn a body, outside, in broad daylight.

It would take nerve for people like us, i.e. "normal people" ;), but MN is anything BUT normal, and she has brass ones for kidnapping a child from his home, taking him to her home, brutally killing him, dumping his burned body, and then within a few hours, returning to the home where she had kidnapped him to sit on the couch of the grieving Mother!!! :banghead: I just remembered another case from Houston!!! In 2007 Timothy Wayne Shepard got into an argument with his girlfriend, Tynesha Stewart. He murdered her, dismembered her, and spent the next TWO DAYS trying to destroy the "evidence" by placing her dismembered body parts on two grills on the balcony of his second story apartment!!! Neighbors wondered about the smell and even asked him about it. Interestingly, Quanell X got involved in that case as well and assisted with getting him to confess. I wonder if MN worked at the apartment complex Timothy Wayne Shepard lived at??? You can google the case, but here is a link to a quick Wiki summary of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tynesha_Stewart

jadejazzkayla
01-02-2011, 07:39 PM
That's what makes no sense to me also. I would love to know what they were thinking that night. Who did they think this woman was? The police weren't convinced it was an abduction until Monday. So all day Christmas, all the next day, what was everyone thinking happened?

Removed by Mod, can repost with a link from msm to show what you are saying. Thanks. Ima

crap. i posted a reply and it didn't post. i'll do it again.

rotterdam
01-02-2011, 07:43 PM
I first thought that too but now I am not so sure.

Over the years I have learned even pathological murderers will slip a little truth in among their lies.

I don't see why him coming to the door with his shirt off made her think someone was there. A lot of little boys walk around in their house without their shirts on. Yet she made a point to mention it like it stuck in her mind.

imo

I sometimes wonder when they insert a little bit of truth in their lies, they do it as a memory jogger so they can repeat the same lie over and over.

Reannan
01-02-2011, 07:43 PM
Good point! It got dark at 5:30.
That she is cocky and believes she is invincible is evident in her actions, so maybe she was nervy enough to burn him in her secluded patio. Everyone thought the house and garage apt. were empty, so maybe she didn't even have any direct neighbors.

Here is a picture of how secluded her patio was...

gypsyblue
01-02-2011, 07:53 PM
It would take nerve for people like us, i.e. "normal people" ;), but MN is anything BUT normal, and she has brass ones for kidnapping a child from his home, taking him to her home, brutally killing him, dumping his burned body, and then within a few hours, returning to the home where she had kidnapped him to sit on the couch of the grieving Mother!!! :banghead: I just remembered another case from Houston!!! In 2007 Timothy Wayne Shepard got into an argument with his girlfriend, Tynesha Stewart. He murdered her, dismembered her, and spent the next TWO DAYS trying to destroy the "evidence" by placing her dismembered body parts on two grills on the balcony of his second story apartment!!! Neighbors wondered about the smell and even asked him about it. Interestingly, Quanell X got involved in that case as well and assisted with getting him to confess. I wonder if MN worked at the apartment complex Timothy Wayne Shepard lived at??? You can google the case, but here is a link to a quick Wiki summary of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tynesha_Stewart
:sick: over him claiming the smell was "spices"....whoa
thinkin Q is there to get her to spill all...jmo

blondekj
01-02-2011, 07:59 PM
It was reported that Jonathon was abducted, murdered and tossed aside in about four hours time.

http://www.ksat.com/news/26323834/detail.html
----


http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/jonathan-foster-murdered-houston-boy-to-be-laid-to-rest-next-week-video
He will be laid to rest.I know my reply is slow....I warned I'm kind of an up and down poster....multitasking.... :)

Anyway, thanks for your response. It sounds like Nelson discarded Jonathan as quickly after darkness as reasonably possible.

NSS
01-02-2011, 08:12 PM
No, I do not think Texas LE is fickle at all. But that tape discovery, after body was found, gave them a nice short window to check alibis. 2pm thru 6 pm. It was a super break in the case for LE and allowed probably for definite elimination of other parties in this case IMO. And nailed MN !!!!! Sadly, sometimes the wrong person is arrested/ convicted and/or has to live the rest of his/her life under a cloud of suspicion.Tapes are like this are even better than DNA evidence IMO. Very hard for defense to argue with or nitpick.


I totally agree with the bolded portion (BBM), there is no dispute that MN burned and disposed of the body.

As soon as the ME confirms the COD, and if that is indeed burning. Then she is done.

IF that COD is suffocation/drowning/unknown then Houston has a problem.

Dear Prudence
01-02-2011, 08:16 PM
I know my reply is slow....I warned I'm kind of an up and down poster....multitasking.... :)

Anyway, thanks for your response. It sounds like Nelson discarded Jonathan as quickly after darkness as reasonably possible.

Yeah, it does make sense especially if Mona was telling the truth about driving around awhile. It's not completely dark here in Houston 6 PM though but it's close. You can still see pretty well outside without a light on so she didn't wait until complete darkness.

SmoothOperator
01-02-2011, 08:22 PM
There most likely is already a copy of the transcription from MN's probable cause hearing, but when possible I like to transcribe such things as hearings, interviews, etc just for myself to better understand..

So, am going to attach a copy of Mona Nelson's Probable Cause Hearing transcript for anyone interested in reading it{It is short and to the point..actually is only 1 page transcript}

blondekj
01-02-2011, 08:23 PM
Yeah, it does make sense especially if Mona was telling the truth about driving around awhile. It's not completely dark here in Houston 6 PM though but it's close. You can still see pretty well outside without a light on so she didn't wait until complete darkness.I think for some things, twilight is the ideal light to hide in. Not so dark that you need a flashlight to see (calling attention to yourself) but not bright enough to see clearly. A world of shadows.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Did a little 12 year old boy coming to the door turn this <mod edit.> (woman) on?????

Nothing would surprise me.

imo

LandAuxvasse
01-02-2011, 08:25 PM
There was an article linked in thread #3 regarding the decision not to put out an Amber Alert and it did imply that the department would be overwhelmed with information that might not be helpful. While the article linked has changed, Reannan did snip a portion and post about it:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - #3

I agree that it would not have saved Jonathan from MN.

MOO :twocents:

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 08:29 PM
I've noodled a bit on her psychology, whether her say it "seemed like" someone else was there, was actually a sort of little play on words, a little clever joke she was making to herself.

Sometimes this type, like Joseph Duncan, refer to themselves when they commit these horrors as if they are a different entity. It sometimes is misunderstood or mistaken as a multiple personality. But it's not. To me, they seem to hold almost a reverence for the part of their personality that is able to commit these horrific acts.

So I've noodled whether she has that same oddity. And since she had gone back over to Jonathan's house, where his grieving and suffering parents were, for what I can only believe was an opportunity to 'enjoy' the 'fruits of her labors', whether, as I said, her reference to it "seeming like" another person was there, was actually a clever play with words, and with the minds of Jonathan's parents, on her own self, who was there to commit atrocities on their little boy.

I will be interested as this goes along to hear more about this from the experts and profilers and psychiatrists.

Just some thoughts.

Excellent reasoning BeanE. It makes a lot of sense.

IMO

Crosby87
01-02-2011, 08:30 PM
sbm

I also think DD may have gone down for this IF poor J was never found.

She actually made NO attempt to cover her tracks from all the evidence left in her apt, the risk of being seen at J's, her stupidity picking up the phone, & the nonchalant dumping of the body.

I can't wait to hear what these "threats" were...I can't even attempt a good guess. :loser:

Mom did say she thought he may be outside playing around the complex (looked for him) which now that you mention it doesn't make much sense knowing a strange woman was there & had also made threats. :waitasec:

Detective Miller said during the Pressor that MN did make an effort to cover the evidence...

<snip>

"She did but I am not going to go through every piece of evidence that we collected; we found an incredible amount of evidence at the scene, at her residence, but I am not going to catalogue here every piece of evidence in the case but it will be for the Court and she did attempt to cover the evidence yes."

Openmind
01-02-2011, 08:31 PM
I totally agree with the bolded portion (BBM), there is no dispute that MN burned and disposed of the body.

As soon as the ME confirms the COD, and if that is indeed burning. Then she is done.

IF that COD is suffocation/drowning/unknown then Houston has a problem.

Just curious, but is there a reason to think MN did not murder Jonathan by suffocation/drowning/or some other means. I know it is unusual, but could Jonathan have died by being tasered. It is rare but it happens.

I don't understand why MN would burn and dispose of the body for someone else and not immediately tell who that person is. Why hold onto that information if it would eliminate her as the killer? One charge is a possible death penalty, the other is a prison term.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 08:36 PM
It would take nerve for people like us, i.e. "normal people" ;), but MN is anything BUT normal, and she has brass ones for kidnapping a child from his home, taking him to her home, brutally killing him, dumping his burned body, and then within a few hours, returning to the home where she had kidnapped him to sit on the couch of the grieving Mother!!! :banghead: I just remembered another case from Houston!!! In 2007 Timothy Wayne Shepard got into an argument with his girlfriend, Tynesha Stewart. He murdered her, dismembered her, and spent the next TWO DAYS trying to destroy the "evidence" by placing her dismembered body parts on two grills on the balcony of his second story apartment!!! Neighbors wondered about the smell and even asked him about it. Interestingly, Quanell X got involved in that case as well and assisted with getting him to confess. I wonder if MN worked at the apartment complex Timothy Wayne Shepard lived at??? You can google the case, but here is a link to a quick Wiki summary of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tynesha_Stewart


Wasnt there another case where a girl was murdered and the other girl who murdered her pretended to support and grieve with the girl's family? I think I remember she even moved in with the murdered girl's family and all along she was the one who had murdered her.

Does anyone remember that case?

imo

peeples
01-02-2011, 08:46 PM
Wasnt there another case where a girl was murdered and the other girl who murdered her pretended to support and grieve with the girl's family? I think I remember she even moved in with the murdered girl's family and all along she was the one who had murdered her.

Does anyone remember that case?

imo

I remember a young girl and a friend murdered 2 children I think one of the killers names was mary or something.. anyway she went over to the home of the dead child to visit with the parents and she had just murdered their child :( really sick

Openmind
01-02-2011, 08:49 PM
I've noodled a bit on her psychology, whether her say it "seemed like" someone else was there, was actually a sort of little play on words, a little clever joke she was making to herself.

Sometimes this type, like Joseph Duncan, refer to themselves when they commit these horrors as if they are a different entity. It sometimes is misunderstood or mistaken as a multiple personality. But it's not. To me, they seem to hold almost a reverence for the part of their personality that is able to commit these horrific acts.

It is a great way for the perp to defer responsibility. The whole devil made me do when all along they know exactly what they are doing and are feeling powerful in their depravity.

So I've noodled whether she has that same oddity. And since she had gone back over to Jonathan's house, where his grieving and suffering parents were, for what I can only believe was an opportunity to 'enjoy' the 'fruits of her labors', whether, as I said, her reference to it "seeming like" another person was there, was actually a clever play with words, and with the minds of Jonathan's parents, on her own self, who was there to commit atrocities on their little boy.

Not only feel power for the crime she committed, but allowing her to keep track of the investigation. She not only had a front row seat to the activity, but was probably getting tidbits of inside information.

I will be interested as this goes along to hear more about this from the experts and profilers and psychiatrists.

And I bet there will be an army of experts to diagnose this woman and her crimes.


Just some thoughts.

Good thinking

SummerRaye
01-02-2011, 08:53 PM
I have spent the last three or four days reading about this case, always catching up (it has moved so fast!!! and luckily, I dont currently have a job and am just hanging around the house with the dogs...)

I need to hear more info from LE. I know Christmas has passed and all, but I still need that gift of info before I can sit on this, cross my arms and say case closed.

The big questions are; how many times did MN go over to the house, see JF on the day that he went missing. Where did JF die? And I am tossing and turning over a motive...is there one? Or is this just a sicko person(s) who needed to do something horrible.

On that note...I have been a member of WS for awhile. I dont post much but I read EVERYTHING and I have never been more impressed with the minds of these members of this wonderful group. It is so impressive and beyond my belief at how everyone works together, flips the issues so everyone and everything can be looked at without judgement and harshness. While I hate that these great minds are brought together by horrible acts against other humans, I am just amazed at the smarts everyone has and no matter what case it is that I decide to follow and read through, I learn an awful lot about this world, the law and the compassion of people across the world.

So...Thanks Wsers! YOu guys are amazing.

Bring on the court appearance tomorrow!!! Ill be waiting!!!

jadejazzkayla
01-02-2011, 08:54 PM
Removed by Mod, can repost with a link from msm to show what you are saying. Thanks. Ima

crap. i posted a reply and it didn't post. i'll do it again.

can i have access to my op so i can properly redo my rely?

ima: can you give me access to my op? thank you.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 08:55 PM
I totally agree with the bolded portion (BBM), there is no dispute that MN burned and disposed of the body.

As soon as the ME confirms the COD, and if that is indeed burning. Then she is done.

IF that COD is suffocation/drowning/unknown then Houston has a problem.

Why do you say that if I may ask?

A lot of cases the COD is unknown yet the DA has other compelling evidence and a conviction is the result.

I don't really think it will matter that much how she killed Jonathan or the DA proving it...except maybe in the sentencing phase if she is convicted. I think they have much more incriminating evidence than COD to get this woman onto death row.

Imo a reasonable jury will be able to comprehend that eye witnesses place Mona there at the time Jonathan disappeared and compounded by the evidence found in her home and no one else's home that ties her to the crime it wont be hard to get a conviction at all, imo.

Mona is locked into her fictitious story now. The video will show she has lied. If she was just dumping a container for someone else then why was the same twine found on Jonathan's hands and in her home? Why was he burned to death with a welding torch which LE also found in her home along with burned carpet?

Her story makes no sense because it is fabricated and the jury will see that instantly, imo.

IMO

jadejazzkayla
01-02-2011, 09:00 PM
Removed by Mod, can repost with a link from msm to show what you are saying. Thanks. Ima

crap. i posted a reply and it didn't post. i'll do it again.

snipped :
Police knew that without a vehicle type or suspect description, a vague alert would generate a flood of information, some of it potentially useful, but much of it simply overwhelming, he said.



link to overwhelming remark: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Rcphmsu2JMJ:www.beaumontenterprise .com/news/article/UPDATE-Arrest-made-in-kidnapping-murder-of-925389.php+it+potentially+useful,+but+much+of+it+s imply+overwhelming&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

lovingmom verified neighbor of jonathan's gramdma stated le told AD it was illegal to leave a child under 14 home alone. via her ws post.

HPD website http://www.houstontx.gov/police/missing.htm states a call to police is all that is necessary to report a child under the age of 17 missing. physically going to the precinct is not needed. jonathan was reported missing by ad at about 2:30pm. he was entered into hpd missing at 9:30 pm. unacceptable. had le began canvessing, which to me is such an obvious reaction to a missing child by LE - they may have saved jonathan -

SilkySifaka
01-02-2011, 09:01 PM
I really don't want to.
This trial is going to be one of the hardest any jury has been a part of.
Recently there have been some bad ones, but honestly I believe this one will be more horrifying. :tears:

jmho

I think it will beat the Couey trial for horror and that is hard to do if they can show it was COD once they realized that the burning may not have caused soot in the lungs.

Can you imagine just torching a body inch by inch? I don't even get the idea that it was to hide identity or she would have knocked out his teeth. Part of me really thinks she wanted to have the thrill of killing someone with her torch. Torture him to death.

I also wonder if the comment about serial killer came because they found "trophies" at her house. For example, the stuffed cat of JF and perhaps belongings of some others that didn't fit her things and may belong to missing kids or adults.

blondekj
01-02-2011, 09:02 PM
Wasnt there another case where a girl was murdered and the other girl who murdered her pretended to support and grieve with the girl's family? I think I remember she even moved in with the murdered girl's family and all along she was the one who had murdered her.

Does anyone remember that case?

imo
Yes, the teen girl who committed or participated in the crime moved in the with grieving mother. I don't remember the names though

lauriej
01-02-2011, 09:09 PM
------this may have already been answered, i know earlier in the thread some were looking for AD on camera saying DD had taken a poly etc.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/101229-source-woman-arrested-in-connection-to-missing-child#

..there are 2 back to back videos here, she says on camera:

"I never made any enemies in my life that would want to take my child from me".

"I never said that it was anyone named Mona."
"I never pointed the finger at anybody. I just said there's a time frame people came by and that's the people that came by."

"My husband took a polygraph, and he passed. He is not in it at all. He's innocent. He is just as distraught and upset as I am."

NSS
01-02-2011, 09:19 PM
[/B]

Just curious, but is there a reason to think MN did not murder Jonathan by suffocation/drowning/or some other means. I know it is unusual, but could Jonathan have died by being tasered. It is rare but it happens.

I don't understand why MN would burn and dispose of the body for someone else and not immediately tell who that person is. Why hold onto that information if it would eliminate her as the killer? One charge is a possible death penalty, the other is a prison term.

I absolutely DO believe she could be responsible for the entire crime, but I also have questions.

Some of those questions must remain unasked if I wish to keep my posting privileges.

However I can say that I'd like her to receive the maximum sentence for her crime. That includes the DP if she murdered him.
I would hate to discount an assistant until the evidence shows that because at this moment, we all believe she murdered him, but proving that in a court of law will require a few ermmmm inconsistencies elsewhere to be cleared up.

I so WANT to believe LE when they say she acted alone, but at the time they said it, they'd already given conflicting statements about COD. (Which in fact hasn't been determined by the ME yet AFAIK).
They based the abduction time, and alibis on telephone calls without having rec'd the phone records yet.
They failed to log a missing child for 6 hours (he'd already been killed and discarded for 3 hours before LE even acknowledged that he was missing.
They didn't issue an Amber alert until Monday, but appear to have had a description of MNs truck, knowledge of a female making threats, MN saying she was there, and being unable to locate her.

Forgive me if I think errors have been made and find it hard to accept what LE feels happened may not be what actually happened. LE's initial actions have left me needing proof.

I'm not sure that there is anyone involved in this case that I would believe without proof anymore. Trust but verify.

I have a family member who is a sociopath, and violent and (until 2 years ago) a drug abuser. They possess some traits that go along with the evil and they don't think like us, but if she were helping a friend then she would never and I mean never share that with us or LE. (Her lie about the box is easily disproved, she never meant it to be her defense. Her lies will be many in the coming days - expect to be infuriated with each passing 'declaration')

revampz
01-02-2011, 09:22 PM
hi guys....midday here so have been trying to catch up again......

am glad a few of you have mentioned the "threatening calls" reporting.

That played over in my head because it has been reported that she received threatening calls however what has been said has never been mentioned in any transcripts from the LE...I am assuming this is bad/sensationalism reporting.

I have read where the LE have said that MN was a friend of SE and an acquaintance of the mum and stepdad, in that she came to and from the apartment and it was mentioned that she was known to Jonathon. I am wondering why she would then ask Jonathon "is Angela your mama?" would she not have known this???? this has me thinking that she may have known Jonathon more than mum and stepdad, maybe because she came over when SE was babysitting Jonathon.......

I am still at a loss to the motive as well, but I dont think this was just a take a child and kill them scenario, I think there is something behind it, hopefully it will come out in the trial.

I was wondering if it may have had anything to do with not seeing her own children and grandkids for christmas, one hadnt want to see her since christmas 09, we know she is an angry violent woman, so maybe took it out on a child.

what is chilling is that she wrote "Merry Christmas Everyone" on her facebook!!! UUUgggh.... maybe it was christmas present to herself as a way of getting anger directed at her kids (very far out I know)...

I also think her going back to see the mother was part of her undoing as well as I dont think she is the sharpest tool in the shed. the le obviously asked mum who may have been there and she would have mentioned MN had come around and said she saw Jonathon that day and he may have been with someone. I think the reason she came around was not to gloat but to take the direction of the case in another direction ie....she thought someone was there...............hoping mum and police would look for that "someone"........when in reality it made them look into her movements and hey presto, she has a truck that matches that on the video.

sick disgusting woman

lynnb
01-02-2011, 09:25 PM
I know where the roommate worked but am still wanting to know where mom worked so we can figure out how long it took her to drive home. Would help with timeline stuff which is driving me batty.

I swore I read somewhere that Mom and SE worked together but I guess I'm wrong

IzzyBlanche
01-02-2011, 09:35 PM
There are many things that puzzle me about this extraordinary case, but this is the main one: why did Angela have to unlock the door when she got home from work?

Did Mona have a key?

If so, why? Who gave it to her and why? Or did she steal it? If so, why?

Why would Mona lock up behind herself after kidnapping Jonathan?

I'm baffled.

www.39online.com/news/local/kiah-amber-alert-foster-story,0,3658934.story

blondekj
01-02-2011, 09:37 PM
I swore I read somewhere that Mom and SE worked together but I guess I'm wrong
I also believe I read that somewhere...but that doesn't mean it's the truth. I just remember reading it somewhere.

blondekj
01-02-2011, 09:39 PM
There are many things that puzzle me about this extraordinary case, but this is the main one: why did Angela have to unlock the door when she got home from work?

Did Mona have a key?

If so, why? Who gave it to her and why? Or did she steal it? If so, why?

Why would Mona lock up behind herself after kidnapping Jonathan?

I'm baffled.

www.39online.com/news/local/kiah-amber-alert-foster-story,0,3658934.story

depending on the door/lock, it might have been as simple as pushing a button or turning a little knob on the doorknob. It would be an easy way to prevent accidental access by someone who didn't belong in the apt??

NSS
01-02-2011, 09:46 PM
Why do you say that if I may ask?

A lot of cases the COD is unknown yet the DA has other compelling evidence and an conviction is the result.

I don't really think it will matter that much how she killed Jonathan or the DA proving it...except maybe in the sentencing phase if she is convicted. I think they have much more incriminating evidence than COD to get this woman onto death row.

Imo a reasonable jury will be able to comprehend that eye witnesses place Mona there at the time Jonathan disappeared and compounded by the evidence found in her home and no one else's home that ties her to the crime it wont be hard to get a conviction at all, imo.

Mona is locked into her fictitious story now. The video will show she has lied. If she was just dumping a container for someone else then why was the same twine found on Jonathan's hands and in her home? Why was he burned to death with a welding torch which LE also found in her home along with burned carpet?

Her story makes no sense because it is fabricated and the jury will see that instantly, imo.

IMO

*****ALL IN MY NON PROFESSIONAL OPINION *****


What plastic box?
MN didn't say that, someone else said she said it.
Sociopaths 'play games'.

Imagine I am MN for just a moment.

I will admit that I dumped the body. (It's on tape)
I will admit that I allowed him to be burnt in my house and using my tools (LE have evidence).

..........
Prove that I killed him.
Prove that I made that phone call.
Prove that I removed the child from the home.
Prove that I actually did the burning.
Prove that I was in that home at 2pm.
.............

Now back to being me.
Don't ask why she would allow all this for a friend, if you already believe she did this unimaginable thing alone. (1 is easier than the other)
She is a sociopath.

Don't say she placed herself at the scene so she must have been there, and then say others did the same but may have been lying. Self serving to us is 'gameplay' to her.
She lies too.....She is a sociopath.

Be careful when attempting to understand a sociopath, they are beyond understanding, and I can't accept everything she says that points to guilt must be true, but everything she says that points elsewhere must be a lie.
She is a sociopath.

I don't think she is a narcissist tho' just a violent, disassociative sociopath.

Now add that to all the lies, backtracking, sidestepping, butt covering and opinions that have surrounded this case from moment one and there is no-one left to trust for now.

lisser
01-02-2011, 09:49 PM
snipped :
Police knew that without a vehicle type or suspect description, a vague alert would generate a flood of information, some of it potentially useful, but much of it simply overwhelming, he said.



link to overwhelming remark: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Rcphmsu2JMJ:www.beaumontenterprise .com/news/article/UPDATE-Arrest-made-in-kidnapping-murder-of-925389.php+it+potentially+useful,+but+much+of+it+s imply+overwhelming&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

lovingmom verified neighbor of jonathan's gramdma stated le told AD it was illegal to leave a child under 14 home alone. via her ws post.

HPD website http://www.houstontx.gov/police/missing.htm states a call to police is all that is necessary to report a child under the age of 17 missing. physically going to the precinct is not needed. jonathan was reported missing by ad at about 2:30pm. he was entered into hpd missing at 9:30 pm. unacceptable. had le began canvessing, which to me is such an obvious reaction to a missing child by LE - they may have saved jonathan -

I'm not placing blame on AD or DD at all, because god only knows how much they are both probably beating themselves up now after the outcome, but...

I imagine that if AD and DD hadn't lied about the situation at first, or if AD had called 911 when getting threatening calls from someone who was with JF when he was supposed to be alone, instead of going home and concocting a story first, LE probably would have reacted very differently, and an amber alert may have gotten out quickly instead of when it was much too late.

IzzyBlanche
01-02-2011, 09:52 PM
depending on the door/lock, it might have been as simple as pushing a button or turning a little knob on the doorknob. It would be an easy way to prevent accidental access by someone who didn't belong in the apt??

Sure, but why bother to lock the barn door when you're already getting away with stealing the horse? So to speak.

And why would a kidnapper care about preventing accidental access by someone arriving after him/her?

It just strikes me as weird that Mona would have bothered to lock the door behind her. Even if it only took an action as small as pressing a button.

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 09:58 PM
*****ALL IN MY NON PROFESSIONAL OPINION *****


What plastic box?
MN didn't say that, someone else said she said it.
Sociopaths 'play games'.

Imagine I am MN for just a moment.

I will admit that I dumped the body. (It's on tape)
I will admit that I allowed him to be burnt in my house and using my tools (LE have evidence).

..........
Prove that I killed him.
Prove that I made that phone call.
Prove that I removed the child from the home.
Prove that I actually did the burning.
Prove that I was in that home at 2pm.
.............

Now back to being me.
Don't ask why she would allow all this for a friend, if you already believe she did this unimaginable thing alone. (1 is easier than the other)
She is a sociopath.

Don't say she placed herself at the scene so she must have been there, and then say others did the same but may have been lying. Self serving to us is 'gameplay' to her.
She lies too.....She is a sociopath.

Be careful when attempting to understand a sociopath, they are beyond understanding, and I can't accept everything she says that points to guilt must be true, but everything she says that points elsewhere must be a lie.
She is a sociopath.

I don't think she is a narcissist tho' just a violent, disassociative sociopath.

Now add that to all the lies, backtracking, sidestepping, butt covering and opinions that have surrounded this case from moment one and there is no-one left to trust for now.

I have no reason to think the interview with Mona wasn't taped. I believe it was. What she said will be used against her and will be played in court, imo.

The evidence always dispels the lies of a perpetrator and sorts out the truth whether they are a sociopath or not.

I don't think Houston has a problem at all. Imo they are not basing their entire case on what Mona said.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 10:00 PM
Sure, but why bother to lock the barn door when you're already getting away with stealing the horse? So to speak.

And why would a kidnapper care about preventing accidental access by someone arriving after him/her?

It just strikes me as weird that Mona would have bothered to lock the door behind her. Even if it only took an action as small as pressing a button.

Maybe Mona thought if someone else came to the door they would think Jonathan had gone somewhere.

She knew the mom was at work and she knew the step dad had already dropped by.

Imo

ynotdivein
01-02-2011, 10:02 PM
Sure, but why bother to lock the barn door when you're already getting away with stealing the horse? So to speak.

And why would a kidnapper care about preventing accidental access by someone arriving after him/her?

It just strikes me as weird that Mona would have bothered to lock the door behind her. Even if it only took an action as small as pressing a button.

Izzy :wave: you made me think two things:

1-if she has been doing apartment maintenance and has been used to using a key to access apts for whatever purpose & then leaving, she would be used to locking the place when she left.

and 2 - AFAIK we do not know how JF left the house. We know his computer was still on, but that doesn't mean he was dragged out struggling or that he was incapacitated inside his home and taken out in some kind of cover. JF may have locked the door after himself if he trusted that he was leaving with someone to "go meet his mom" or some other excuse.

I trust that LE has coated that place looking for fingerprints, including the doorknob/lock.

revampz
01-02-2011, 10:03 PM
I had just had a shower and there is all this talk of sociopath, serial killer etc and I am wondering if the true motive is not something more simple.

I do beleive this woman is a weird, sadistic, angry, violent person who I am sure has had a abusive childhood.

Has anyone heard any comments made from SE????? I would be very interested to know the state of their friendship. I dont think MN had too many friends judging by comments made about her ie hard to understand, etc. Maybe SE was more special to MN than vice versa and SE was distancing herself and hadnt invited her over for christmas or something similar.

what if the scenario went like this

MN goes over to see SE either in a rage due to breakup of friendship or
just to pop over to see her

She gets there and no adult is home. she either lets herself in
or Jonathon lets her in

She is either ranting or raving OR as we know she has a criminal background, sees the opportunity to steal something, be it jewellery, money, drugs...

Jonathon knows something is wrong, calls him mum at work, hence the emergency call to mum......Mona hangs up, mum rings back and mona answers.....knows she is in the poo poo either because jonathon has seen her doing something or she is just in some form of a rage......

Takes Jonathon and phone........in her rage or to stop him talking, kills jonathon with what she has available..the blow torch.

Crosby87
01-02-2011, 10:04 PM
I believe LE had spoken to Mona before the body was found. She herself came forward and informed someone - not sure if it was LE or family, but she placed herself at the crime scene because she told them she had been at the apartment Jonathan was taken from. She told them she had stopped by to "ask a question" or something. Now, I don't recall if she told them she was there to get SE's (the roommate/babysitter) phone number. Anyone stumble on that link which verifies why MN was there, I would appreciate it. When the surveillance video was found and a truck like MN's was seen with someone getting out of it, the officers that were reviewing the video sent the information to the officers that had spoken with MN earlier. I really want to know what did MN originally give as her reason for being there?? If it was to get SE's phone number and then AD received a call from Jonathan asking for that same phone number, I will be very confused and have to rethink a lot of things. :waitasec:

I had the impression the first time homicide detectives spoke with MN was when they showed up at her residence. They went there because they had information that she had actually talked to Jonathan at approximately 12:30 pm the day he went missing, so they were just trying to find out what she had to say according to the Captain who spoke at the pressor. While they were at MN's, they received a photo of the truck and recognized it as Mona's. Although the Captain added, "She was at the apartment complex the same day Jonathan disappeared by her own admittance and other people in the apartment complex said they saw here there", he didn't say when MN admitted she was there, therefore it is possible MN only admitted she was at SE's when LE showed up at her residence to find out what she knew. JMO

snipped from pressor

[B]"A couple of those guys were looking for this woman named Mona at that time because there was information, not because she was a suspect at that point in time, but there was information that she had actually talked to Jonathan at approximately 12:30 on the day he went missing, so they were just trying to find out what she had to say. While they were out at that location they got a picture of the truck, they noticed that Mona was driving a truck that was remarkably similar".

everyoneneedsavoice
01-02-2011, 10:04 PM
It would take nerve for people like us, i.e. "normal people" ;), but MN is anything BUT normal, and she has brass ones for kidnapping a child from his home, taking him to her home, brutally killing him, dumping his burned body, and then within a few hours, returning to the home where she had kidnapped him to sit on the couch of the grieving Mother!!! :banghead: I just remembered another case from Houston!!! In 2007 Timothy Wayne Shepard got into an argument with his girlfriend, Tynesha Stewart. He murdered her, dismembered her, and spent the next TWO DAYS trying to destroy the "evidence" by placing her dismembered body parts on two grills on the balcony of his second story apartment!!! Neighbors wondered about the smell and even asked him about it. Interestingly, Quanell X got involved in that case as well and assisted with getting him to confess. I wonder if MN worked at the apartment complex Timothy Wayne Shepard lived at??? You can google the case, but here is a link to a quick Wiki summary of it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Tynesha_Stewart


Yes...Tynesha, the beautiful girl that he murdered, dismembered and burned to nothing on his patio...was a dear friend of my families.

I posted about her case, investigation, trial, etc. several times on these threads. I will link here, just in case you / anyone else wants to read.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - Mona Nelson charged with Murder - #9


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - Mona Nelson charged with Murder - #8

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - Mona Nelson charged with Murder - #6


I also posted about the traffic cams in one of these posts, which IMO, is what puts a live Jonathan with Mona from his house/apt/duplex/cottage...to MN's House...and from there to E. Hardy with a body.

Take a look...

13034

You can go the link and mess around with the cams to get a better idea...

http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/layers/layers_ve.html?&cam=true

relise42
01-02-2011, 10:10 PM
I was using ours from 1998 1999 or 2000 and it worked to the other side of the block (exact opposite of where our house sits), as soon as i tried to cross the street off our block it completely cut out. So yeah newer ones would have even better range.

Depends upon how many MgH, megahertz, it has. Cheaper the phone, usually less MgH, therefore less range.

Quester
01-02-2011, 10:13 PM
...(snipped)...
Why would Mona lock up behind herself after kidnapping Jonathan?


Maybe she didn't lock up the front door. Maybe MN entered and then exited with JF by way of a side or back door???

NSS
01-02-2011, 10:14 PM
Izzy :wave: you made me think two things:

1-if she has been doing apartment maintenance and has been used to using a key to access apts for whatever purpose & then leaving, she would be used to locking the place when she left.

and 2 - AFAIK we do not know how JF left the house. We know his computer was still on, but that doesn't mean he was dragged out struggling or that he was incapacitated inside his home and taken out in some kind of cover. JF may have locked the door after himself if he trusted that he was leaving with someone to "go meet his mom" or some other excuse.

I trust that LE has coated that place looking for fingerprints, including the doorknob/lock.

Great points.
LE claim JF was abducted, in fact the initial charge was going to be kidnapping (then the tape arrived). This means Jason was taken from the house alive. (You can't kidnap a body).

Even if he knew MN, wouldn't the earlier threats (per the phone calls) have made him fearful and hesitant?

At what point does threatening, angry and enraged switch to allow him to collect his stuffed toy?

This crime required very swift movements, involved much rage and yet the cottage remained undisturbed, the door was locked, and a cuddly toy was missing?

Openmind
01-02-2011, 10:15 PM
I absolutely DO believe she could be responsible for the entire crime, but I also have questions.

Some of those questions must remain unasked if I wish to keep my posting privileges.

However I can say that I'd like her to receive the maximum sentence for her crime. That includes the DP if she murdered him.
I would hate to discount an assistant until the evidence shows that because at this moment, we all believe she murdered him, but proving that in a court of law will require a few ermmmm inconsistencies elsewhere to be cleared up.

I so WANT to believe LE when they say she acted alone, but at the time they said it, they'd already given conflicting statements about COD. (Which in fact hasn't been determined by the ME yet AFAIK).
They based the abduction time, and alibis on telephone calls without having rec'd the phone records yet.
They failed to log a missing child for 6 hours (he'd already been killed and discarded for 3 hours before LE even acknowledged that he was missing.
They didn't issue an Amber alert until Monday, but appear to have had a description of MNs truck, knowledge of a female making threats, MN saying she was there, and being unable to locate her.

Forgive me if I think errors have been made and find it hard to accept what LE feels happened may not be what actually happened. LE's initial actions have left me needing proof.

I'm not sure that there is anyone involved in this case that I would believe without proof anymore. Trust but verify.

I have a family member who is a sociopath, and violent and (until 2 years ago) a drug abuser. They possess some traits that go along with the evil and they don't think like us, but if she were helping a friend then she would never and I mean never share that with us or LE. (Her lie about the box is easily disproved, she never meant it to be her defense. Her lies will be many in the coming days - expect to be infuriated with each passing 'declaration')


I understand having questions. I would like to know why MN was fired from her maintenance job. I would think she may have been living in the apartment complex and after she was fired she was forced to move into the empty duplex. If it didn't have electricity or water, she was basically homeless and trespassing. How anyone missed her big truck outside the duplex is beyond me.

I have thought this crime might be related to a drug deal that went bad or a payment for drugs that was not made. Or, MN was jealous of AD for moving in with MN's friend especially if MN was homeless. Now I could see MN becoming outraged by any of these events and she went seeking payment, a confrontation, or revenge. I could see AD, DD, SE not even knowing MN was out there with this pent-up rage. The anger she felt was in her mind and not something she expressed to them until that Friday and Jonathan was the person she encountered first and finally. Her first visit to the house may have been nothing more than a quick stop by. Nothing to make Jonathan suspicious or nervous. Not enough to even have him mention it to DD. She could have just asked if SE was home or some excuse to see who was home -- a scouting trip. When DD came and went, she may have sat brooding over whatever was making her mad and she decided to strike. The second time Jonathan had her at the door would have probably scared him and consequently he called his mom. When AD called back, MN was in the house and MN knew she had to leave and take Jonathan. He could identify her or she wanted to hurt him. I know it is a stretch but there is a motive to this, and I can make a case in my mind where AD, DD, and SE were not involved. I think MN is ruthless but I do not think she is smart. She will slip up. Right now, the best she could do was cook up the excuse she was paid to dispose of a crate and that didn't hold water. Maybe she saw DD when he came to the house to check on Jonathan and she thought she could use him as her fall guy. Time will tell, and I think, eventually, the entire truth will come out.

relise42
01-02-2011, 10:19 PM
[/B]

Just curious, but is there a reason to think MN did not murder Jonathan by suffocation/drowning/or some other means. I know it is unusual, but could Jonathan have died by being tasered. It is rare but it happens.

I don't understand why MN would burn and dispose of the body for someone else and not immediately tell who that person is. Why hold onto that information if it would eliminate her as the killer? One charge is a possible death penalty, the other is a prison term.

Didn't she try to implicate the SD?

oceanblueeyes
01-02-2011, 10:21 PM
I had just had a shower and there is all this talk of sociopath, serial killer etc and I am wondering if the true motive is not something more simple.

I do believe this woman is a weird, sadistic, angry, violent person who I am sure has had a abusive childhood.

Has anyone heard any comments made from SE????? I would be very interested to know the state of their friendship. I don't think MN had too many friends judging by comments made about her ie hard to understand, etc. Maybe SE was more special to MN than vice versa and SE was distancing herself and hadn't invited her over for christmas or something similar.

what if the scenario went like this

MN goes over to see SE either in a rage due to breakup of friendship or
just to pop over to see her

She gets there and no adult is home. she either lets herself in
or Jonathon lets her in

She is either ranting or raving OR as we know she has a criminal background, sees the opportunity to steal something, be it jewellery, money, drugs...

Jonathon knows something is wrong, calls him mum at work, hence the emergency call to mum......Mona hangs up, mum rings back and mona answers.....knows she is in the poo poo either because jonathon has seen her doing something or she is just in some form of a rage......

Takes Jonathon and phone........in her rage or to stop him talking, kills jonathon with what she has available..the blow torch.

I do respect your opinion and who knows which theory is really the correct one. We may never learn the true motive.

But I don't think there is anything simple when a woman takes a blow torch and burns the flesh off of a little innocent boy.

To be capable of that we aren't looking at the 'typical' killer we often read about here imo.

Mona didn't need a blow torch to kill Jonathan. She looks strong as an ox and use to be a boxer. One blow by her to his throat or grabbing him by the throat and choking him could have easily killed him. Jonathan was no match for this massive woman.

Imo, this goes way beyond simple. This is one of the most heinous cases I can remember. It reminds me of the sadistic and vile nature of Joesph Duncan.

IMO

NSS
01-02-2011, 10:31 PM
I too can come up with several scenarios where she acted totally alone.
I can also eliminate drug deals as either a cause or a motive.
Please don't misunderstand my questions as either defending or empathizing with MN.

To do that I have to also believe that there have been more lies told (beyond the babysitter lie), and these lies have been presented as truth by LE.

I have no vested interest in whether she was alone or with an accomplice EXCEPT that JF deserves the whole truth. So many lies surround what happened to this poor child and he deserves TRUTH and he deserves JUSTICE.

lisser
01-02-2011, 10:34 PM
I also posted about the traffic cams in one of these posts, which IMO, is what puts a live Jonathan with Mona from his house/apt/duplex/cottage...to MN's House...and from there to E. Hardy with a body.

Take a look...

13034

You can go the link and mess around with the cams to get a better idea...

http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/layers/layers_ve.html?&cam=true

RSBM

I sure hope LE has had those tapes (assuming they are recording cams) reviewed.

Openmind
01-02-2011, 10:44 PM
Didn't she try to implicate the SD?

Do you mean DD -- the stepfather? Just checking. I really stink at these initials and need to keep a cheat sheet of names and initials.

Reannan
01-02-2011, 10:46 PM
Yes...Tynesha, the beautiful girl that he murdered, dismembered and burned to nothing on his patio...was a dear friend of my families.

I posted about her case, investigation, trial, etc. several times on these threads. I will link here, just in case you / anyone else wants to read.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - Mona Nelson charged with Murder - #9 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5952759&postcount=140)


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - Mona Nelson charged with Murder - #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5950041&postcount=49)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - Mona Nelson charged with Murder - #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5947204&postcount=450)


I also posted about the traffic cams in one of these posts, which IMO, is what puts a live Jonathan with Mona from his house/apt/duplex/cottage...to MN's House...and from there to E. Hardy with a body.

Take a look...

13034

You can go the link and mess around with the cams to get a better idea...

http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/layers/layers_ve.html?&cam=true

Thank you everyoneneedsavoice! I remember being horrified about Tynesha's case when it happened. My sympathy, which seems completely inadequate, to you and your family!!! I don't suppose there is any chance MN could have known Shepherd or had ever worked at Red Oak Place Apartments? In regards to your idea about the traffic cams, that would be fantastic if they worked like that!!! I rarely can find traffic cams that have any sort of visually useful historical data. I remember in the Natalee Holloway case, there were some "beach cams" that had some historical data. I spent too much time pouring over those images hoping to find something of use. Maybe LE has access to much better info than we do. I bet they don't have the manpower to sit and pour over the information like we would, however!!! :websleuther:

SmoothOperator
01-02-2011, 10:48 PM
After having transcribed the short probable cause hearing today I realized that it was not just the poor and shoddy reporting that phone calls were labeled as "threatening"..
The D.A.'s office stated that when Angela was on her way home "that she received a mysterious phone call from her residence with a woman making 'threatening' remarks towards her son{JF}"..

Since having heard this directly from the DA's mouth I now am perceiving that there were definitely threats made by Mona towards Jonathan in that last phone call between her and mom.. I am assuming that we will not know what those threats were or why until this goes to trial..

Also now knowing this the video from early on of mom and DD where mom starts to go into detail about the phone calls with the "raspy voiced woman" and we saw DD tell her to be careful about giving too much detail of the calls.. At that time many saw this as DD being controlling and that it even possibly was indicative of DD having something to hide with regard to those calls.. But now knowing this detail from the DA's mouth that there were indeed threats made toward Jonathan in that call.{and it being SOP for LE to tell family notto share certain details with the media that LE have decided do not need to be known by the public for a multitude of reasons}.. I now I see DD's remark to mom as nothing more than a reminder of possibly what LE had told them{NOT AT ALL INDICATIVE OF ANYTHING NEFARIOUS}..

Reannan
01-02-2011, 10:59 PM
Does anyone know why MN had welding equipment in her home? I have seen it published where she worked with "maintenance" and "plumbing", but neither of those necessarily require welding.

sherryk
01-02-2011, 11:18 PM
I know that LE does not owe us who are following this case anything at all, nor does the media HOWEVER I hope that now after the holidays have past. The news shows that nornally focus on these type of cases, I am hoping that there will be some additional information and explanation of timeline of events, what did and did not happen in regards to the phone calls being threatening and a few other things that the public is wondering about.
I would never want anything to be released that could hurt the case. I just feel that these crimes really effect alot of us to the point that we ARE on this fourm to discuss that matter. We are trying so hard to figure it out, sort it out and I think perhaps try in someway in our minds to know what happened because we do get emotionally involved. How can a person not be emotional when somthing like this happens. This is one of it not the most horrible cases I have heard about in a long time.
I think that perhaps I want to know the cause of death, how this happened, what her motive was due to the fact that it will eventually come out at the trial or at least some of it. I think that I need to know so I can cope with it. I keep hoping that evidence will come out that will show anything other than JF being burned while alive.
As much as I was praying he would be found alive I am now praying that the death is not as gruesome as we all know it very well may be.

I suspect that MN in her mind really doesnt see that what she did was "really" that bad or has justification for it. I dont know why I feel this way but for some reason I get the feeling that she has been a little passive and oh no I would never hurt a child.. MN knows she is going away. I really think she is ok with it. I get the feeling that MN will move into the prison population, make her own friends and be a bully to others being that she can very well take care of herself. I think she is the type that likes the spotlight and will enjoy the attention it gets her behind bars also.

I know that I have heard that sexual predators and child killers are the lowest on the totem pole in male prisons.. adn their quality of life is not good. I wonder if that is the same for female prison inmates?

I do not know what her preference is as far as relationships of romantic level. "IF" a female and took on the role of the more masculine role, I would tend to think that prison may be a place that they could very well handle themself and just live life behind bars perhaps not happy or sad but just indifferent. That is not good enough for me I really want a person who did somthing like this to a child be in a place that they are misreable each and every day. The death penalty takes way too long, the appeals.. it is years before a person is put to death.

Dear Prudence
01-02-2011, 11:20 PM
Does anyone know why MN had welding equipment in her home? I have seen it published where she worked with "maintenance" and "plumbing", but neither of those necessarily require welding.

She has also said that she is a welder.

Dear Prudence
01-02-2011, 11:29 PM
Thank you everyoneneedsavoice! I remember being horrified about Tynesha's case when it happened. My sympathy, which seems completely inadequate, to you and your family!!! I don't suppose there is any chance MN could have known Shepherd or had ever worked at Red Oak Place Apartments? In regards to your idea about the traffic cams, that would be fantastic if they worked like that!!! I rarely can find traffic cams that have any sort of visually useful historical data. I remember in the Natalee Holloway case, there were some "beach cams" that had some historical data. I spent too much time pouring over those images hoping to find something of use. Maybe LE has access to much better info than we do. I bet they don't have the manpower to sit and pour over the information like we would, however!!! :websleuther:

I remember LE saying Mona did building maintenance at different locations for someone who owned multiple properties. It might have been in the press conference. I'll listen to it again if anyone wants me to.

Harris County property tax district has a great website. You can search by owner's name or the property address and it's free. Once you find the address you're looking for you can click on "ownership history" and it will give you the name and time period of each owner for that property, or click on "similar owner name" and you get other properties of that owner.

Here's the Villa Nueva Apartments:
http://www.hcad.org/records/details.asp?crypt=%94%9A%B0%94%BFg%84%93%80zke%8El %87tXw%60W%9E%99%A2%D3%89%95%C2e%7CU%8A%7C%86%C0%A B%A8%AD%86%5E&bld=1&tab=

ynotdivein
01-02-2011, 11:37 PM
Great points.
LE claim JF was abducted, in fact the initial charge was going to be kidnapping (then the tape arrived). This means Jason was taken from the house alive. (You can't kidnap a body).

Even if he knew MN, wouldn't the earlier threats (per the phone calls) have made him fearful and hesitant?

At what point does threatening, angry and enraged switch to allow him to collect his stuffed toy?

This crime required very swift movements, involved much rage and yet the cottage remained undisturbed, the door was locked, and a cuddly toy was missing?

The fact that Jonathan was allowed to take the stuffed cat, plus the "Is your mother's name Angela/Yes ma'am my mother's name is Angela" says to me that MN lured him out and that he walked out of that house thinking that Mona was going to take him somewhere that he and his mom and maybe the roommate were going to meet up. IMO, he grabbed the toy on his way out the door (though where was that toy the last time AD saw it?). IMO MN locked the door behind them as they were leaving.

Patty G
01-02-2011, 11:38 PM
The only thing that LE can prove regarding phone calls is where the phone call came from and to whom the call was made to via phone records.

What was said on the phone back and forth between DD and the "raspy" voice woman, IF it was a woman, can NOT be proven unless it was recorded. Other then that, the jist of the conversation is what one person states that the other person said.

I swear, if the phone records come back that the call was made at 1:45 PM, I am heading to the Gulf of Mexico!

For me, once a person lies, I have a difficult time trusting the next word out of their mouths. It's a personal thing for me ....

Thank goodness no one text back and forth otherwise we would have some solid information to bite into.

Dear Prudence
01-02-2011, 11:45 PM
When all the details come out from LE, I really want to know about the phone calls and stepdad's 1:45 check on Jonathan.

Has anyone else wondered if maybe Mona was in the house already when DD checked on Jonathan at 1:45? I guess her truck was seen there though so he would remember that. But maybe he is the witness. I wish LE would release what his activities after that time were. Just a guess by me, but maybe he was heading to work and wanted to check on Jonathan before he left.

Reannan
01-02-2011, 11:52 PM
I am chasing my tail in circles at this point. You good people keep up the great work you are doing! I am off to bed.... :offtobed:

Crosby87
01-02-2011, 11:57 PM
There are many things that puzzle me about this extraordinary case, but this is the main one: why did Angela have to unlock the door when she got home from work?

Did Mona have a key?

If so, why? Who gave it to her and why? Or did she steal it? If so, why?

Why would Mona lock up behind herself after kidnapping Jonathan?

I'm baffled.

www.39online.com/news/local/kiah-amber-alert-foster-story,0,3658934.story

AD's comment baffles me too. Did AD ever retract her claim that the door was locked when she returned? LE did not give any details about the door during the presser and a media report I posted earlier didn't say AD unlocked the door before she entered the cottage when she returned, so I am glad there is a video where AD said she unlocked the door.

IMO, 99% of the doors to dwellings have to be locked on the outside with a key and the door knobs with push buttons aren't common because they are too easy to pick. I can't think of a place where I didn't need a key to lock the main door.

georgiajean
01-02-2011, 11:58 PM
Mona was known by Jonathan because she was friends with SE and had been to the cottage as a visitor in the past. He knew Mona because SE was his babysitter first, then AD moved in with SE. I don't think he had any thought of being afraid of her until the very end.

MOO :twocents:

Oh my. Very interesting. You brought up something I hadn't even considered. If SE had watched JF in the past, before they moved into her place, then JF may have had much more contact with MN prior to that day. She may have interacted with him on numerous occasions, since JF moved in with AD. That would make MN visiting SE's cottage nothing out of the ordinary, and would not cause alarm for JF. He might have spilled the beans about everyone's whereabouts and time schedules, without even realizing...

LandAuxvasse
01-03-2011, 12:03 AM
Oh my. Very interesting. You brought up something I hadn't even considered. If SE had watched JF in the past, before they moved into her place, then JF may have had much more contact with MN prior to that day. She may have interacted with him on numerous occasions, since JF moved in with AD. That would make MN visiting SE's cottage nothing out of the ordinary, and would not cause alarm for JF. He might have spilled the beans about everyone's whereabouts and time schedules, without even realizing...

Yup, I agree! AD had not met Mona yet, because Mona usually came over to visit SE while AD was at work and SE was babysitting. DD had only met Mona a couple of weeks before this whole event, and we do not know the circumstances of that meeting.

MOO :twocents:

everyoneneedsavoice
01-03-2011, 12:05 AM
Thank you everyoneneedsavoice! I remember being horrified about Tynesha's case when it happened. My sympathy, which seems completely inadequate, to you and your family!!! I don't suppose there is any chance MN could have known Shepherd or had ever worked at Red Oak Place Apartments? In regards to your idea about the traffic cams, that would be fantastic if they worked like that!!! I rarely can find traffic cams that have any sort of visually useful historical data. I remember in the Natalee Holloway case, there were some "beach cams" that had some historical data. I spent too much time pouring over those images hoping to find something of use. Maybe LE has access to much better info than we do. I bet they don't have the manpower to sit and pour over the information like we would, however!!! :websleuther:

Thank you for the condolences.

Actually, HPD does have dedicated staff to "man" / watch the cameras. I was surprised when first learning this myself...as this was the first time I had seen such technology used.

<<snipped>>

HPD tied analytics associated with crimes to incident locations, providing insights into specific incidents and trends. For example, those dealing with a crime scene can analyze all the statistics around the area, looking at what has happened within a time frame and even seeing parolees and sex offenders in the area. Users can also zoom in on a neighborhood, block or street, and see houses, cars, yards and fields.

In addition, crime center analysts have real-time access to Houston 9-1-1 calls, where they watch on a rolling screen as calls and messages go between the dispatcher and the car. Analysts work 24/7 analyzing data, generating reports on the fly, and providing information to officers in the field. Recently, for example, the emergency center received a disturbance call, and while the officers were being dispatched to the scene, analysts ran the name, found out the man creating the disturbance was a fugitive, and alerted the officers, who arrived at the scene knowing he was a fugitive and arrested him.

http://www.hendonpub.com/resources/articlearchive/details.aspx?ID=207950


Houston Police Chief Harold Hurtt said the system will enable the department to recognize crime activity and trends as they happen. He also said the data can be used in homicide investigations to "freeze all the activity that was going within a mile of that homicide (at the time of the crime)," such as reports of speeding vehicles, or other suspicious activity.

"All of that will be captured," Hurtt said on Monday. "So by the time the detective responds (to the crime scene) he will have all that."

<<snipped>>

Every crime that happens in the city, immediately when it happens, shows up with written details and pops up on a giant map on the wall in the center. The officers and analysts in the room then immediately start working to solve the crime.

Initial staffing plans for the crime center call for 20 criminal intelligence analysts and 20 police officers, paired into teams and working at the headquarter site. At any given time, three or four teams will operate, on rotating shifts.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5236601.html

"Increased technology allows us to be able to, like you've heard a million times, do more with less. When it comes to increased technology, this is the place (HPD's 24/7 Crime Center). We have the real time information to help the officers. We have the databases to do research," says HPD Captain Charles Dunn, which means HPD solves crimes faster.

"We monitor TranStar cameras and we can monitor all the downtown cameras. If we see something of interest we can zoom in on it, get a license plate on a car," says Dunn.


http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/scitech/101123-houston-crime-rates


Lots of information there and other places. It's truly amazing.

impatientredhead
01-03-2011, 12:06 AM
After having transcribed the short probable cause hearing today I realized that it was not just the poor and shoddy reporting that phone calls were labeled as "threatening"..
The D.A.'s office stated that when Angela was on her way home "that she received a mysterious phone call from her residence with a woman making 'threatening' remarks towards her son{JF}"..

Since having heard this directly from the DA's mouth I now am perceiving that there were definitely threats made by Mona towards Jonathan in that last phone call between her and mom.. I am assuming that we will not know what those threats were or why until this goes to trial..

Also now knowing this the video from early on of mom and DD where mom starts to go into detail about the phone calls with the "raspy voiced woman" and we saw DD tell her to be careful about giving too much detail of the calls.. At that time many saw this as DD being controlling and that it even possibly was indicative of DD having something to hide with regard to those calls.. But now knowing this detail from the DA's mouth that there were indeed threats made toward Jonathan in that call.{and it being SOP for LE to tell family notto share certain details with the media that LE have decided do not need to be known by the public for a multitude of reasons}.. I now I see DD's remark to mom as nothing more than a reminder of possibly what LE had told them{NOT AT ALL INDICATIVE OF ANYTHING NEFARIOUS}..

If threats were made against during that call why not call the police?
Why look for him at the playground?
Why lie about the babysitter?

Crosby87
01-03-2011, 12:08 AM
I had just had a shower and there is all this talk of sociopath, serial killer etc and I am wondering if the true motive is not something more simple.

I do beleive this woman is a weird, sadistic, angry, violent person who I am sure has had a abusive childhood.

Has anyone heard any comments made from SE????? I would be very interested to know the state of their friendship. I dont think MN had too many friends judging by comments made about her ie hard to understand, etc. Maybe SE was more special to MN than vice versa and SE was distancing herself and hadnt invited her over for christmas or something similar.

what if the scenario went like this

MN goes over to see SE either in a rage due to breakup of friendship or
just to pop over to see her

She gets there and no adult is home. she either lets herself in
or Jonathon lets her in

She is either ranting or raving OR as we know she has a criminal background, sees the opportunity to steal something, be it jewellery, money, drugs...

Jonathon knows something is wrong, calls him mum at work, hence the emergency call to mum......Mona hangs up, mum rings back and mona answers.....knows she is in the poo poo either because jonathon has seen her doing something or she is just in some form of a rage......

Takes Jonathon and phone........in her rage or to stop him talking, kills jonathon with what she has available..the blow torch.

Another thing that baffles me is why the woman at SE's bothered to answer AD's phone call?

Crosby87
01-03-2011, 12:11 AM
Maybe she didn't lock up the front door. Maybe MN entered and then exited with JF by way of a side or back door???

This is why I wanted to know how many exits there are at SE's cottage.

georgiajean
01-03-2011, 12:17 AM
Sure, but why bother to lock the barn door when you're already getting away with stealing the horse? So to speak.

And why would a kidnapper care about preventing accidental access by someone arriving after him/her?

It just strikes me as weird that Mona would have bothered to lock the door behind her. Even if it only took an action as small as pressing a button.

Unless MN and JF went out the door together, like MN was taking him somewhere and JF was okay with it. I could see JF carefully locking the door behind him, being the responsible kid doing what his mom had asked (always lock the door behind you, JF...). This would make sense if the phone calls happened outside the house, after JF was in MN's custody in her truck, but close enough so the cordless phone still worked. IMO.

Jolynna
01-03-2011, 12:19 AM
Wasnt there another case where a girl was murdered and the other girl who murdered her pretended to support and grieve with the girl's family? I think I remember she even moved in with the murdered girl's family and all along she was the one who had murdered her.

Does anyone remember that case?

imo

Wasn't there a Lifetime Movie made about this case? Patty Duke played the victim's mother and I am thinking the girl who was Darlene on Rosanne played the role of the murderer.

Crosby87
01-03-2011, 12:26 AM
I wonder if it would have been helpful if LE had taken scent dogs over to SE's to follow JF's scent?

Crosby87
01-03-2011, 12:35 AM
Great points.
LE claim JF was abducted, in fact the initial charge was going to be kidnapping (then the tape arrived). This means Jason was taken from the house alive. (You can't kidnap a body).

Even if he knew MN, wouldn't the earlier threats (per the phone calls) have made him fearful and hesitant?

At what point does threatening, angry and enraged switch to allow him to collect his stuffed toy?This crime required very swift movements, involved much rage and yet the cottage remained undisturbed, the door was locked, and a cuddly toy was missing?

And put his shoes on. AD said JF was wearing black and white runners. As a general rule, do kids wear their shoes inside the house? Did JF wear his shoes in the house or did he put them on when the perp was there?

georgiajean
01-03-2011, 12:43 AM
And put his shoes on. AD said JF was wearing black and white runners. As a general rule, do kids wear their shoes inside the house? Did JF wear his shoes in the house or did he put them on when the perp was there?

Depends on the adults' rules/expectations, I think. I have a no shoe policy in my house, just because I live in a wet, muddy climate, and it saves the floors and need for cleaning. I know other people who have houses where everyone keeps their shoes on. And there are kids who, despite the house rule of no shoes, keep their shoes on because they forget. If JF hadn't gone outside yet, I would bet he was wearing socks in the house. If he had gone outside to play or check on his neighbor, he might have left his shoes on when he returned. (Clearly I need to go to bed. Not sure I needed to write a whole paragraph about shoes.)

SmoothOperator
01-03-2011, 12:50 AM
If threats were made against during that call why not call the police?
Why look for him at the playground?
Why lie about the babysitter?

Your above post is the one thing that I cannot find a satisfactory reason that could possibly explain the why...

Everything else IMO I can say I have been able to come to a satisfactory reason for "it"{actions, behaviors, statements, etc}..

But it is the one last phonecall and all that the call entails{which includes the questions in your above post}.

First, I need to know why in the world that Mona would answer that last call at the residence? why after according to mom she had called repeatedly while on her way home but was getting no answer.. and then finally when Angela was literally just a few short minutes from arriving home, all of a sudden Mona chooses to answer that call.. I cannot come up with a reason that makes sense to me why and what reasoning could she have had to make her answer that call???

Secondly, everyone is seeming to agree{atleast at varying degrees}that MN was somewhat known to AD, DD, and JF..with LE stating that MN was an acquaintance that came and went from the cottage where mom and son were living..and that yes MN was familiar with JF..So, knowing that just how in he!! is it possible that first, MN strangely decides to answer that phone call, and second, why in the he!! would MN be asking JF if his mom was Angela?..Even if just an aquaintance she would know whom was Jonathan's mother..KWIM?

and lastly of course is the questions that you have asked in your ^above post{that according to DA this last call was "threatening" remarks from Mona towards Jonathan..and that AD heard these "threats" obviously}..
Then how in the he!! is it that she DOES NOT choose to immediately call in LE, why would she go look in area courtyards and playgrounds? ..
If she had just spoken with a woman who heard with your own ears was there in your house with your 12 year old son and you heard with your own ears threats made directly towards your 12 yr old son..why when you arrived 5 mins later from time of the call at the duplex and there is not trace of your son whatsoever..why would you go look in courtyard or park{as if he'd just voluntarily walked out of that duplex of his own free will just go walking and playing around}..

YOU HAD JUST HEARD A STRANGER ON THE OTHER END OF THE CALL THAT WAS COMING FROM YOUR RESIDENCE WHERE THIS STRANGER WAS ALONE WITH YOUR CHILD, AND EVEN TO GO A STEP FURTHER YOU HEAR THIS STRANGER THREATENING YOUR CHILD?
WHY OR HOW COULD U POSSIBLY THINK ANYTHING OTHER WAS EVEN REMOTELY A POSSIBILITY OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT HE HAD BEEN TAKEN BY THIS STRANGER WHOM 5 MINS PRIOR YOU HAD HEARD MAKE THREATS TO THAT CHILD???

So, ya see EVERYTHING IN AND/OR AROUND AND PERTAINING TO IN ANY WAY TO THAT LAST PHONE CALL I CANNOT COME UP WITH ANY SATISFACTORY REASONS THAT WOULD MAKE THE CHOICES UNDERSTANDABLE???

georgiajean
01-03-2011, 12:58 AM
On FB, there is a page for JF.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/justice.for.jonathan.foster

There is a comment that was posted there. Unfortunately, they have not linked the original source, so who knows where it came from. Anyway, it lays out a scenario that actually makes some sense, especially when paired with the last two comments on MN's myspace.

Also, there are some really sweet pics of JF there, that I haven't seen elsewhere. What a brilliant light of a boy.

ETA: I found the original source of the comment quoted on the FB page. It's in the comments of this article/blog: http://www.***********.com/2010/12/woman-to-be-charged-with-murder-of-missing-houston-boy/#comments

Crosby87
01-03-2011, 12:59 AM
I understand having questions. I would like to know why MN was fired from her maintenance job. I would think she may have been living in the apartment complex and after she was fired she was forced to move into the empty duplex. If it didn't have electricity or water, she was basically homeless and trespassing. How anyone missed her big truck outside the duplex is beyond me.

I have thought this crime might be related to a drug deal that went bad or a payment for drugs that was not made. Or, MN was jealous of AD for moving in with MN's friend especially if MN was homeless. Now I could see MN becoming outraged by any of these events and she went seeking payment, a confrontation, or revenge. I could see AD, DD, SE not even knowing MN was out there with this pent-up rage. The anger she felt was in her mind and not something she expressed to them until that Friday and Jonathan was the person she encountered first and finally. Her first visit to the house may have been nothing more than a quick stop by. Nothing to make Jonathan suspicious or nervous. Not enough to even have him mention it to DD. She could have just asked if SE was home or some excuse to see who was home -- a scouting trip. When DD came and went, she may have sat brooding over whatever was making her mad and she decided to strike. The second time Jonathan had her at the door would have probably scared him and consequently he called his mom. When AD called back, MN was in the house and MN knew she had to leave and take Jonathan. He could identify her or she wanted to hurt him. I know it is a stretch but there is a motive to this, and I can make a case in my mind where AD, DD, and SE were not involved. I think MN is ruthless but I do not think she is smart. She will slip up. Right now, the best she could do was cook up the excuse she was paid to dispose of a crate and that didn't hold water. Maybe she saw DD when he came to the house to check on Jonathan and she thought she could use him as her fall guy. Time will tell, and I think, eventually, the entire truth will come out.

At the pressor, Captain Gott said “MN had been released from her duties several months prior but people said she came around a lot.”

It was discussed in a previous thread that MN was “laid off” by her employer because the buildings she maintained were shut down due to code violations and she was not “fired” due to poor performance or for doing anything wrong.

SmoothOperator
01-03-2011, 01:02 AM
Quick question that Ive been wanting to know the answer to for a couple days now..

Do we know for sure that the cordless phone was indeed TAKEN/STOLEN from the duplex?

I know that we heard several mention this early in the case at one point early in Harris said print interview that cordless phone was missing..but then we have not heard anymore about it missing..and certainly when Angela spoke about what was missing from the home she stated "that the ONLY THINGS MISSING FROM THE RESIDENCE WAS GUITAR SHIRT, SNEAKERS, AND THE STUFFED TOY THAT WAS GIVEN BY HER GRANDMOTHER..

NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT THE CORDLESS PHONE..So, do we know for sure that the cordless phone is for A fact actually missing from the residence..

TIA to anyone who knows :)

claudicici
01-03-2011, 01:19 AM
AD's comment baffles me too. Did AD ever retract her claim that the door was locked when she returned? LE did not give any details about the door during the presser and a media report I posted earlier didn't say AD unlocked the door before she entered the cottage when she returned, so I am glad there is a video where AD said she unlocked the door.

IMO, 99% of the doors to dwellings have to be locked on the outside with a key and the door knobs with push buttons aren't common because they are too easy to pick. I can't think of a place where I didn't need a key to lock the main door.

If it was the cottage,not the apartement it may have been the cheap lock that you can lock from the inside.
Watching the old footage again,I think I may be able to make sense of what is being said,keeping in mind that AD was ashamed that Jonathan was left alone.
I think Jonathan was at the cottage (the babysitters house,not really a lie after all) and ran to the apartement at 01:45PM and that's when the stepdad saw him.Maybe Stepdad did not come to check on him ,that's what really confused me and made me suspicious all along.But it would make sense if Jonathan went to the apartement ,picked up a video game and shortly thereafter Mona returned.

georgiajean
01-03-2011, 01:25 AM
Quick question that Ive been wanting to know the answer to for a couple days now..

Do we know for sure that the cordless phone was indeed TAKEN/STOLEN from the duplex?

I know that we heard several mention this early in the case at one point early in Harris said print interview that cordless phone was missing..but then we have not heard anymore about it missing..and certainly when Angela spoke about what was missing from the home she stated "that the ONLY THINGS MISSING FROM THE RESIDENCE WAS GUITAR SHIRT, SNEAKERS, AND THE STUFFED TOY THAT WAS GIVEN BY HER GRANDMOTHER..

NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT THE CORDLESS PHONE..So, do we know for sure that the cordless phone is for A fact actually missing from the residence..

TIA to anyone who knows :)

If you do a google search of JF and cordless phone, you come up with a lot of reporters saying this. In the transcript for the NG show that covered JF, there's a reporter (Gomez) talking about the missing phone. AD is the one who told reporters about the missing phone. It never came from LE as far as I can tell.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1012/28/ng.01.html

Openmind
01-03-2011, 01:26 AM
At the pressor, Captain Gott said “MN had been released from her duties several months prior but people said she came around a lot.”

It was discussed in a previous thread that MN was “laid off” by her employer because the buildings she maintained were shut down due to code violations and she was not “fired” due to poor performance or for doing anything wrong.

Thanks for the info.

IzzyBlanche
01-03-2011, 01:41 AM
Izzy :wave: you made me think two things:

1-if she has been doing apartment maintenance and has been used to using a key to access apts for whatever purpose & then leaving, she would be used to locking the place when she left.

and 2 - AFAIK we do not know how JF left the house. We know his computer was still on, but that doesn't mean he was dragged out struggling or that he was incapacitated inside his home and taken out in some kind of cover. JF may have locked the door after himself if he trusted that he was leaving with someone to "go meet his mom" or some other excuse.

I trust that LE has coated that place looking for fingerprints, including the doorknob/lock.

Excellent theories that I hadn't thought of, Y. Very sensible. Thanks and :wave: back atcha.

claudicici
01-03-2011, 01:49 AM
On FB, there is a page for JF.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/justice.for.jonathan.foster

There is a comment that was posted there. Unfortunately, they have not linked the original source, so who knows where it came from. Anyway, it lays out a scenario that actually makes some sense, especially when paired with the last two comments on MN's myspace.

Also, there are some really sweet pics of JF there, that I haven't seen elsewhere. What a brilliant light of a boy.

ETA: I found the original source of the comment quoted on the FB page. It's in the comments of this article/blog: http://www.***********.com/2010/12/woman-to-be-charged-with-murder-of-missing-houston-boy/#comments
I don't buy that MN had a romantic relationship with SE.Just from looking at her myspace her type are really pretty young girls.I'm much more inclined to believe that the connection was drugs.One thing I do believe out of MN's mouth is that they were partying together.She may have been selling and that's how they know her.I think it's much more plausible that this was about a drug debt than a romantic relationship.

impatientredhead
01-03-2011, 02:07 AM
I don't buy that MN had a romantic relationship with SE.Just from looking at her myspace her type are really pretty young girls.I'm much more inclined to believe that the connection was drugs.One thing I do believe out of MN's mouth is that they were partying together.She may have been selling and that's how they know her.I think it's much more plausible that this was about a drug debt than a romantic relationship.

Mona may prefer young/hot girls but I highly doubt that has precluded relationships with people outside that demographic.

Openmind
01-03-2011, 02:11 AM
Trusting and sweet to the end

Jonathan Foster's wish to live with his mom came true — and put him in harm's way

When Jonathan Paul Foster is buried in South Park Cemetery in Pearland on Tuesday, he will be the first interred in a family plot that will someday hold his grandparents.

That Jonathan eventually will rest with his family offered a little solace to relatives of the 12-year-old boy killed on Christmas Eve, his remains charred and left in a drainage culvert in Houston.

By all accounts, it is an unspeakably sad end for a boy whose family members described him as deeply loving and affectionate. Even after bouncing from house to house in his 12 years — living with his mother, his grandmother and an uncle — he still had the trust of an innocent child.

"He was just so sweet and submissive, always looking for a hug," said Glenn Scrimsher, 33, Jonathan's uncle who raised him from the time he was 6 until a year ago, when his grandmother, Mary Gifford, sent for him in Channelview. "I bet he didn't even put up a fight."



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

CASH
01-03-2011, 02:11 AM
[QUOTE=SmoothOperator;5959489]After having transcribed the short probable cause hearing today I realized that it was not just the poor and shoddy reporting that phone calls were labeled as "threatening"..
The D.A.'s office stated that when Angela was on her way home "that she received a mysterious phone call from her residence with a woman making 'threatening' remarks towards her son{JF}"..

This is what makes me so angry. If LE admits that there were threatening phone calls made to the mother from inside her own house about JF just prior to her discovery of his disappearance, why on earth didn't they suspect foul play immediately and begin canvassing the neighborhood? Without the phone calls, I can see why LE hesitated. But if AD told them about the phone calls, there is no excuse for not taking this seriously!! The calls indicate a threat to a child by an unidentified adult who is inside the home of a child who is supposed to be home alone. There are horror films based on this type of scenario!!!

I can't help but wonder that if the call had come in from one of Houston's more affluent suburbs, LE would have responded more quickly.

StrayKat
01-03-2011, 02:28 AM
It happened at roughly 2... the locals gathered 4 hours later... The family suspected foul play immediately... it was that big of an ordeal even M showed up. RUNAWAY?

StrayKat
01-03-2011, 02:29 AM
[QUOTE=SmoothOperator;5959489]After having transcribed the short probable cause hearing today I realized that it was not just the poor and shoddy reporting that phone calls were labeled as "threatening"..
The D.A.'s office stated that when Angela was on her way home "that she received a mysterious phone call from her residence with a woman making 'threatening' remarks towards her son{JF}"..

This is what makes me so angry. If LE admits that there were threatening phone calls made to the mother from inside her own house about JF just prior to her discovery of his disappearance, why on earth didn't they suspect foul play immediately and begin canvassing the neighborhood? Without the phone calls, I can see why LE hesitated. But if AD told them about the phone calls, there is no excuse for not taking this seriously!! The calls indicate a threat to a child by an unidentified adult who is inside the home of a child who is supposed to be home alone. There are horror films based on this type of scenario!!!

I can't help but wonder that if the call had come in from one of Houston's more affluent suburbs, LE would have responded more quickly.

Your probably right about the suburbs... I never heard about that threatening call.

claudicici
01-03-2011, 02:37 AM
It happened at roughly 2... the locals gathered 4 hours later... The family suspected foul play immediately... it was that big of an ordeal even M showed up. RUNAWAY?

please have a look at the link in my signature.Ali is missing from my neighborhood in Houston since April.She was considered a "runaway" for months.I believe precious time was wasted to find out what actually happened to her.Sorry OT.

claudicici
01-03-2011, 02:43 AM
[QUOTE=SmoothOperator;5959489]After having transcribed the short probable cause hearing today I realized that it was not just the poor and shoddy reporting that phone calls were labeled as "threatening"..
The D.A.'s office stated that when Angela was on her way home "that she received a mysterious phone call from her residence with a woman making 'threatening' remarks towards her son{JF}"..

This is what makes me so angry. If LE admits that there were threatening phone calls made to the mother from inside her own house about JF just prior to her discovery of his disappearance, why on earth didn't they suspect foul play immediately and begin canvassing the neighborhood? Without the phone calls, I can see why LE hesitated. But if AD told them about the phone calls, there is no excuse for not taking this seriously!! The calls indicate a threat to a child by an unidentified adult who is inside the home of a child who is supposed to be home alone. There are horror films based on this type of scenario!!!

I can't help but wonder that if the call had come in from one of Houston's more affluent suburbs, LE would have responded more quickly.
I worked in several hotels in Houston and have to call 911 frequently.
The hotel I worked at in Greenspoint (which is not considered a good neighborhood) had a police station right across from it yet it took police anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours to respond.
I now work in the Woodlands,which is an affluent neighborhood and the response time here is incredible.They are here within minutes.

Bedelia
01-03-2011, 02:52 AM
You are looking for the same video interview that I am. I am so glad that you saw that video also.
I meant to quote from the video where AD describes the mysterious phone calls.

One thing that keeps coming back to me: At the presser the police said they have not yet checked the phone records to verifiy the stories about the phone calls at work.

I understand the family are victims and in no way mean to imply otherwise.

But it's very strange to me, the phone call stories. It reminds me of the ransom note in the JonBenet case -- in that it seems to be something giving the appearance of a ransom-demand kidnapping that's not followed through. And stands there inexplicable.

I also can't for the life of me believe that if a child called someone's job and said it was an emergency, the job wouldn't rush to get the employee while keeping the child on the line -- for liability reasons if compassionate ones are not to be found in someone's cold heart. I can't imagine they'd allow the child to hang up. Also, if this is the case, someone at the job should be able to verify the call.

AND if this happened and you called back and a stranger answered and the line went dead, wouldn't you call 911? It's also very strange that the calls weren't made to AD's cell -- since the first call was supposed to be from JF (?)

Another thing that bothers me is the story about JF not wearing a shirt - we only know that MN said that, I believe, based on what AD and DD tell us. If she was sending them a message, the first thing I thought of is trafficking him to a pedophile -- I mean it's perfectly normal not to wear a shirt, Christmas Eve day was warm -- but the mention of it, the suggestion that because he didn't have a shirt on someone was there with him -- it creeps me out. If MN actually said it.

Part of the reason the body could have been burned was to hide sexual abuse. Poor darling JF, little angel. He was so beautiful, just the kind of child one would be able to turn a huge profit on by selling to a pedophile.

And of course Mona could have acted alone on this. But I wonder if there was a possibility she was procuring him for the more conventional male pedophile client. I just do not belive she acted alone.

tehcloser
01-03-2011, 02:57 AM
The home was a frequent stop for Nelson, who also was friends with Ennamorato.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

hmmm, seems like Mona was there quite a bit.

nomoresorrow
01-03-2011, 02:58 AM
(BBM)
Quick question that Ive been wanting to know the answer to for a couple days now..

Do we know for sure that the cordless phone was indeed TAKEN/STOLEN from the duplex?

I know that we heard several mention this early in the case at one point early in Harris said print interview that cordless phone was missing..but then we have not heard anymore about it missing..and certainly when Angela spoke about what was missing from the home she stated "that the ONLY THINGS MISSING FROM THE RESIDENCE WAS GUITAR SHIRT, SNEAKERS, AND THE STUFFED TOY THAT WAS GIVEN BY HER GRANDMOTHER..

NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT THE CORDLESS PHONE..So, do we know for sure that the cordless phone is for A fact actually missing from the residence..

TIA to anyone who knows :)


I'd also like to add a thought regarding the cordless phone. Other than taking the phone because it may have had incriminating fingerprints on it, an additional reason for someone getting rid of the phone could be because it was a cordless phone w/the caller ID built into the phone itself and someone didn't want the latest call records, incoming or outgoing, seen...of course we know that LE would be able to get the phone records at some point...just a thought ~

Bedelia
01-03-2011, 02:59 AM
FYI, her sister she stayed with lives in southwest Houston (stated in video).

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7872780

Re Mona's wearabouts -- It's entirely possible that she visited her sister, while still returning to the Greenspoint neighborhood. She could visit her sister and still visit DD and AD and Christmas day -- which a neighbor stated she'd done in one of the videos.

CaliMama
01-03-2011, 03:04 AM
I've been following this since I found out JF was missing. My thoughts about the phone is that JF took it with him to call his mom. I think that after his mom called on her cell phone the first time, he might have pressed redial and she heard was MN was saying to him in her truck within a certain range of the cottage.

nomoresorrow
01-03-2011, 03:04 AM
The home was a frequent stop for Nelson, who also was friends with Ennamorato.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

hmmm, seems like Mona was there quite a bit.

Thanks for posting that teh. Poor Jonathan never had a chance.

Bedelia
01-03-2011, 03:06 AM
There was an article linked in thread #3 regarding the decision not to put out an Amber Alert and it did imply that the department would be overwhelmed with information that might not be helpful. While the article linked has changed, Reannan did snip a portion and post about it:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX - Jonathan Foster, 12, Houston, 24 Dec 2010 - #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5941980&postcount=321)

I agree that it would not have saved Jonathan from MN.

MOO :twocents:

It's tragic that they didn't put out an amber alert immediately. It's also tragic that AD didn't call the police immediately after the mysterious phone call. In hindsight it's easy to see what the po pos should have done.

But I can understand why they made the decision they did -- in that if too many amber alerts go out that are unnecessary people stop paying attention to them. I'm frustrated the responding officers didn't send out the alert, but I also feel bad for them. They were given a very confusing conflicting story. I hope they can forgive themselves, because it was not a clear cut situation.

Bedelia
01-03-2011, 03:08 AM
I've been following this since I found out JF was missing. My thoughts about the phone is that JF took it with him to call his mom. I think that after his mom called on her cell phone the first time, he might have pressed redial and she heard was MN was saying to him in her truck within a certain range of the cottage.

BUt according to mom's story she thought JF had just 'run off.' She didn't call the cops for over an hour.

I can see why you'd posit the above, it makes sense. But not with her actions.

Bedelia
01-03-2011, 03:22 AM
When all the details come out from LE, I really want to know about the phone calls and stepdad's 1:45 check on Jonathan.

Has anyone else wondered if maybe Mona was in the house already when DD checked on Jonathan at 1:45? I guess her truck was seen there though so he would remember that. But maybe he is the witness. I wish LE would release what his activities after that time were. Just a guess by me, but maybe he was heading to work and wanted to check on Jonathan before he left.

I've wondered if she was in the house when DD checked in at 1:45. I also wonder if he saw her, and thought it was normal for her to be there. From the stories of her visits to AD and DD prior JF's going missing, I really get the feeling there was some familiarity even if they hadn't formally 'met' previously. You know, like you have a neighbor and you haven't been introduced, you're unsure of their full name, but you nod at them when they walk by, you know their routine.

claudicici
01-03-2011, 03:43 AM
Thanks for posting that teh. Poor Jonathan never had a chance.

yes,he did.WHen he was living a beautiful life on his uncles farm.I wished he would have been there christmas eve playing with his cousins.It makes me so sick.

CaliMama
01-03-2011, 03:49 AM
OH my gosh, this is my third try for replying to you:) The first try went nowhere for some reason and the second try, my cat stepped on the keyboard! ugh :)

Anyway, I just wanted to put out there another reason why the cordless phone might have been missing and tie to the threatening calls. I wasn't speaking about AD's actions at all. I think MAYBE that JF was able to sneak the phone with him and maybe he pressed redial and recorded her threats to him in the truck. As soon as the signal got weak, the threats/phone call would have faded out to nothing :(

Lera213
01-03-2011, 04:15 AM
How do we know if when the reporters that were on Oak Street, talking to neighbors, witness one was not MN and gave bad information?

everyoneneedsavoice
01-03-2011, 04:16 AM
[quote=CASH;5959795]
I worked in several hotels in Houston and have to call 911 frequently.
The hotel I worked at in Greenspoint (which is not considered a good neighborhood) had a police station right across from it yet it took police anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours to respond.
I now work in the Woodlands,which is an affluent neighborhood and the response time here is incredible.They are here within minutes.


The Woodland's police department is handled by Montgomery County, not Harris County or HPD.

Greenspoint is handled by Harris County / HPD.


As such, I could see why there response time would be much quicker.

http://www.thewoodlandstx.com/police/

BeanE
01-03-2011, 04:17 AM
http://www.chron.com/photos/2011/01/01/24634091/260xStory.jpg

Rest in peace, sweetheart.

BeanE
01-03-2011, 04:23 AM
You can light a candle for Jonathan here:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=JonF

If you lose the link, just go to gratefulness.org, go to the Search, and search for the group named JonF.

nomoresorrow
01-03-2011, 04:36 AM
(BBM)
yes,he did.WHen he was living a beautiful life on his uncles farm.I wished he would have been there christmas eve playing with his cousins.It makes me so sick.

Exactly claudicici - Oh how I wish he'd never left there. My heart just breaks for his uncle/uncle's family.

claudicici
01-03-2011, 04:56 AM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs739.ash1/163147_167900879919739_166569373386223_328645_2794 018_n.jpg
"Jonathan Foster's sweetness shines through in photographs of him and in the memories of those who knew him"

revampz
01-03-2011, 05:02 AM
I do respect your opinion and who knows which theory is really the correct one. We may never learn the true motive.

But I don't think there is anything simple when a woman takes a blow torch and burns the flesh off of a little innocent boy.

To be capable of that we aren't looking at the 'typical' killer we often read about here imo.

Mona didn't need a blow torch to kill Jonathan. She looks strong as an ox and use to be a boxer. One blow by her to his throat or grabbing him by the throat and choking him could have easily killed him. Jonathan was no match for this massive woman.

Imo, this goes way beyond simple. This is one of the most heinous cases I can remember. It reminds me of the sadistic and vile nature of Joesph Duncan.

IMO

WOW am certainly going to have to be careful how I phrase things in the future as I certainly did not think anyone would take offence to what I had wrote...

when I say the crime was more "simple" I meant that I dont think it was by a serial killer who has been killing and burning children and took Jonathon because he was left alone to satisfy her urge to kill.......

but in fact if you read what I had written I said the MOTIVE was more simple....ie something to do with the adults in the home and poor Jonathon became the victim as he was the one there.

saying that the crime was simple is in no way implying that I do not think that this is extremely disturbing and upsetting and horrific.

In fact if you read my previous posts I have called her a sick, vicious, digusting, sadistic, violent women...

the thought that poor zahra was dismembered made me sick, after someone mentioned sandra cantu at the beginning of this case, I read up on it and I nearly vomitted and this tragedy has really shocked and upset me.

tehcloser
01-03-2011, 05:05 AM
:waitasec: Well, it's only 5 more hours till the court appearance ehhh???

claudicici
01-03-2011, 05:48 AM
I do respect your opinion and who knows which theory is really the correct one. We may never learn the true motive.

But I don't think there is anything simple when a woman takes a blow torch and burns the flesh off of a little innocent boy.

To be capable of that we aren't looking at the 'typical' killer we often read about here imo.

Mona didn't need a blow torch to kill Jonathan. She looks strong as an ox and use to be a boxer. One blow by her to his throat or grabbing him by the throat and choking him could have easily killed him. Jonathan was no match for this massive woman.Imo, this goes way beyond simple. This is one of the most heinous cases I can remember. It reminds me of the sadistic and vile nature of Joesph Duncan.

IMO

...she definetely used the blow torch to burn his poor little body.We still don't know if that is how he died.I still think she may not have killed him until more evidence becomes public.JMO...

Fyrecat
01-03-2011, 06:15 AM
[QUOTE=SmoothOperator;5959489]After having transcribed the short probable cause hearing today I realized that it was not just the poor and shoddy reporting that phone calls were labeled as "threatening"..
The D.A.'s office stated that when Angela was on her way home "that she received a mysterious phone call from her residence with a woman making 'threatening' remarks towards her son{JF}"..

This is what makes me so angry. If LE admits that there were threatening phone calls made to the mother from inside her own house about JF just prior to her discovery of his disappearance, why on earth didn't they suspect foul play immediately and begin canvassing the neighborhood? Without the phone calls, I can see why LE hesitated. But if AD told them about the phone calls, there is no excuse for not taking this seriously!! The calls indicate a threat to a child by an unidentified adult who is inside the home of a child who is supposed to be home alone. There are horror films based on this type of scenario!!!

I can't help but wonder that if the call had come in from one of Houston's more affluent suburbs, LE would have responded more quickly.

This leads me to think that (A) Parents or parent owed money to someone. Perhaps someone unsavory, who had a bad reputation for violence toward those who did not pay up on time.
(B) Mona was the 'hired henchwoman' who was put into a place to do the dirty work, or perhaps even just the 'point woman' who got the kid to wherever it was, then did the dumping of bodies. I think this because evidence was found at her home. Most 'serial' or killers who do this regularly are more careful. They have to be so that they would not get caught. She got caught easily. There is something that just doesnt' work for me about this scenario.

I believe she probably is pretty ruthless. But somehow, it doesn't sit right with me. But then again, nothing about this terrible thing does.

sherryk
01-03-2011, 06:26 AM
If he did know who she was by just seeing her around. What if she did come to the door and had been drinking vodka. What if she was drunk and rowdy banging on the door and that was the emergency.. then she got in either by key or convinced him to unlock the door.. mom called back and that is when she hung up on her.

then somehow convinced him to go with her or she forced him to go.. if a child is scared i would think to grab him by the arm and demand he not say anything he would go..
or convinced him to go with her.. and her saying it is ok..take your stuffed animal ( that was missing) take it with you .. somthing to that extent..

just a maybe on this..

Fyrecat
01-03-2011, 06:28 AM
(BBM)


Exactly claudicici - Oh how I wish he'd never left there. My heart just breaks for his uncle/uncle's family.

I agree.
I work in Foster Care. While I admit and state I realize that parents do love their children in these situations, and certainly the child wanted to live and be with his mother, I think of the children who often have a healthier life while remaining with extended family who live in healthier and more stable environments. I wish the mother had gone to live with them, too. But I think the child wanted to be with his mother, and he was, and loved.

cloudajo
01-03-2011, 07:32 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

Thanks. So sad.

[snipped]

"He was just so sweet and submissive, always looking for a hug," said Glenn Scrimsher, 33, Jonathan's uncle who raised him from the time he was 6 until a year ago, when his grandmother, Mary Gifford, sent for him in Channelview. "I bet he didn't even put up a fight."

[snipped]

Jonathan spent much of his young life with his uncle and his five kids on a farm in Missouri, where the boy grew watermelon, rode dirt bikes and caught his first fish. He fell in love with his family's horse, Valentino, a Palomino. While he lived with his uncle, his mother visited once, Scrimsher said, but Jonathan saw his grandparents frequently.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

BeanE
01-03-2011, 07:34 AM
"He was just so sweet and submissive, always looking for a hug," said Glenn Scrimsher, 33, Jonathan's uncle who raised him from the time he was 6 until a year ago, when his grandmother, Mary Gifford, sent for him in Channelview. "I bet he didn't even put up a fight."


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html


My heart is broken.

cloudajo
01-03-2011, 07:37 AM
http://www.chron.com/photos/2011/01/01/24634091/260xStory.jpg

Rest in peace, sweetheart.

Thanks, that's an adorable pic. Can you post the other one where he's in a cap and gown (pic 2 at link)? I'm not sure how to do that.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

claudicici
01-03-2011, 07:40 AM
http://www.chron.com/photos/2011/01/01/24634070/260xStory.jpg

claudicici
01-03-2011, 07:41 AM
[quote=CASH;5959795]

This leads me to think that (A) Parents or parent owed money to someone. Perhaps someone unsavory, who had a bad reputation for violence toward those who did not pay up on time.
(B) Mona was the 'hired henchwoman' who was put into a place to do the dirty work, or perhaps even just the 'point woman' who got the kid to wherever it was, then did the dumping of bodies. I think this because evidence was found at her home. Most 'serial' or killers who do this regularly are more careful. They have to be so that they would not get caught. She got caught easily. There is something that just doesnt' work for me about this scenario.

I believe she probably is pretty ruthless. But somehow, it doesn't sit right with me. But then again, nothing about this terrible thing does.
ITA with your entire post....

cloudajo
01-03-2011, 07:47 AM
Houston Chronicle - January 3

Blue text highlighted by me. Earlier HC article said he called and had asked for "Ennamorato's number." Just a little more specific in this new article.

[snipped]

Missed calls

Exactly why Nelson, who had served time for armed robbery, marijuana possession, immigrant smuggling and terroristic threats, came to Jonathan's door on Christmas Eve remains unclear.

On that Friday morning, both Davis and Ennamorato had to work. Jonathan's mother was to return by 2 p.m.

That morning at work, a colleague told Davis her son had called asking for "Aunt Sharon's" number.

After she missed that call, a woman called back, saying it was an emergency. By the time Davis made it to the phone, the line was dead.

Concerned, Davis called the house again and again as she drove to the cottage, she said. Someone picked up just minutes before she pulled up around 2 p.m.

Davis said a woman answered. She told the woman she was Jonathan's mom, Angela. She heard a woman say: "Is your mama's name Angela?"
And Davis heard Jonathan say: "Yes ma'am, my mama's name is Angela."

And then the phone went dead.

Davis said police initially questioned her about why her son was home alone, and suggested he'd run away on Christmas Eve.

Police said the investigation was complicated because family members changed their stories and gave conflicting statements on the day of his disappearance.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

SilkySifaka
01-03-2011, 07:54 AM
There are many things that puzzle me about this extraordinary case, but this is the main one: why did Angela have to unlock the door when she got home from work?

Did Mona have a key?

If so, why? Who gave it to her and why? Or did she steal it? If so, why?

Why would Mona lock up behind herself after kidnapping Jonathan?

I'm baffled.

www.39online.com/news/local/kiah-amber-alert-foster-story,0,3658934.story

Wouldn't jonathan have had a key? If she lured him out, he may have naturally locked the door behind him. Even if he was frightened. If she locked it, it could be a good way to make it look like he ran a way for a few hours.

Most likely though, the door had a lock button in the handle and it was automatically pushed in when leaving by people including jonathan.

imo

CocoChanel
01-03-2011, 08:02 AM
The home was a frequent stop for Nelson, who also was friends with Ennamorato.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

hmmm, seems like Mona was there quite a bit.


This is why I don't think MN is a serial.

peeples
01-03-2011, 08:24 AM
I've been following this since I found out JF was missing. My thoughts about the phone is that JF took it with him to call his mom. I think that after his mom called on her cell phone the first time, he might have pressed redial and she heard was MN was saying to him in her truck within a certain range of the cottage.

that's a very big possibility

MBLover
01-03-2011, 08:31 AM
JMHO

But I believe that MN was just one angry individual with rage issues. I don't know (just by her appearance) that she's the type to be smart enough to be stalking out a victim and planning out a crime. Seems to me when something makes her mad, she just goes over the top (as specified in the article about the woman she beat up and the kids she pushed). MN seems to get caught at (most?) every crime she commits.....

JMHO, I think MN was there looking for Ennamorato and for whatever reason (drunk/high) MN couldn't understand this woman was at work or wasn't there at the house when MN thought she was supposed to be and that set MN into simmer mode.

Or maybe it was the simple fact that MN had a "thing" afor Ennamorato and didn't like JF or his mother living there - maybe that was putting a "crimp in her style".

Or maybe MN was there to rob the place and didn't realize that JF would have been left there alone and unfortunately he could ID her...

MN may have been scoping out the place...but for some reason I don't think JF was in her plans...he just happened to be there and she had to do something...unfortunately...

SilkySifaka
01-03-2011, 08:51 AM
I had the impression the first time homicide detectives spoke with MN was when they showed up at her residence. They went there because they had information that she had actually talked to Jonathan at approximately 12:30 pm the day he went missing, so they were just trying to find out what she had to say according to the Captain who spoke at the pressor. While they were at MN's, they received a photo of the truck and recognized it as Mona's. Although the Captain added, "She was at the apartment complex the same day Jonathan disappeared by her own admittance and other people in the apartment complex said they saw here there", he didn't say when MN admitted she was there, therefore it is possible MN only admitted she was at SE's when LE showed up at her residence to find out what she knew. JMO

snipped from pressor

[B]"A couple of those guys were looking for this woman named Mona at that time because there was information, not because she was a suspect at that point in time, but there was information that she had actually talked to Jonathan at approximately 12:30 on the day he went missing, so they were just trying to find out what she had to say. While they were out at that location they got a picture of the truck, they noticed that Mona was driving a truck that was remarkably similar".

That must have been a mind boggling moment for them, talking to a witness they thought, looking down at their blackberry and omg!

SuziQ
01-03-2011, 09:06 AM
Do we know what time the hearing is today and if it will be streamed live anywhere? TIA.

salvarenga
01-03-2011, 09:06 AM
Catching up....I read upthread that police do not have all of the phone records yet. If they do not have the phone records, then how can they without a doubt say they have their one and only suspect?

oceanblueeyes
01-03-2011, 09:13 AM
It will be interesting to see if any of the witnesses who saw Mona that day thought she was in a drunken stupor.

I tend to shy away from believing a murder defendant who immediately says they were drunk or high. To me it is said to negate what they have done and used as a convenience.

IMO, no one can get that drunk off of Vodka that it makes them take out a welding torch and burn a child to death.

It has been reported that Mona had been acquainted with Jonathan and his family about two weeks prior to him being murdered. So why would she want to murder him of all people? If her beef was with E then why not wait for her to return?

I think she lured Jonathan away from his home with the intent to murder him. She probably told him some story and Jonathan trusted her and went with her willingly. That makes this crime even worse if possible.

It makes no sense to me if she was mad with someone else she would resort to murdering the innocent child. What does make sense is she knew she would have no problem murdering Jonathan because he was a small helpless boy who couldn't fight back.

I think she is a cold evil woman. She knew Jonathan was alone and she took that opportunity.

A lot of serial killers aren't caught for years because many of them are nomadic and once they kill a victim they quickly move on. Or they distance the bodies from where they live. However serial killers do keep evidence in their possession and once caught often times police finds items and evidence that belonged to the victims inside the perpetrators home. Serial killers become very cocky and self assured they will not get caught.

So Mona still having evidence in her home doesn't convince me that she hasn't done other horrid crimes before. She could be just like others who had killed before and never got caught until years later when they finally mess up and get caught.

And who knows without the surveillance tape she may not have been caught this time either.

IMO

Strawberry Fields
01-03-2011, 09:13 AM
The home was a frequent stop for Nelson, who also was friends with Ennamorato.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7362771.html

hmmm, seems like Mona was there quite a bit.

Trying to do a little catchup reading this morning but I have a couple of questions that I am not sure have been answered yet.
Regarding the "mysterious phone calls":

1) If MN was friends with SE, why was she supposedly trying to get SE's phone number? Did I read this wrong somehow? Is it that she was trying to get her work phone number?
Okay, so I am thinking that JF was alone in the apartment he and his mom shared with SE. So, wouldn't the phone number of SE and AD (at least their home phones) be the same?

Regarding SE:

2) Has it been reported where she works? Is it in the same place of employment where AD works?

Sorry if these have been answered already.

Lera213
01-03-2011, 09:14 AM
Do we know what time the hearing is today and if it will be streamed live anywhere? TIA.

SuziQ,

I emailed 2click the other day to ask if they could post a audio recording of MN voice. I got a reply that stated, "I will be in court for her first appearance on Monday. If the Judge let's our camera in the courtroom, we will likely have something on camera from her."

So I guess it depends on if the Judge allows camera in the court room

Lera213
01-03-2011, 09:16 AM
Trying to do a little catchup reading this morning but I have a couple of questions that I am not sure have been answered yet.
Regarding the "mysterious phone calls":

1) If MN was friends with SE, why was she supposedly trying to get SE's phone number? Did I read this wrong somehow? Is it that she was trying to get her work phone number?
Okay, so I am thinking that JF was alone in the apartment he and his mom shared with SE. So, wouldn't the phone number of SE and AD (at least their home phones) be the same?

Regarding SE:

2) Has it been reported where she works? Is it in the same place of employment where AD works?

Sorry if these have been answered already.Here is my take on it:

MN goes to the house, knocks on the door, and told JF she was there to fix something that SE wanted. MN said "Call SE and she will tell you just open the door" JF opens the door and calls his Mom and ask for SE phone number....after that...the horror started.

SuziQ
01-03-2011, 09:21 AM
SuziQ,

I emailed 2click the other day to ask if they could post a audio recording of MN voice. I got a reply that stated, "I will be in court for her first appearance on Monday. If the Judge let's our camera in the courtroom, we will likely have something on camera from her."

So I guess it depends on if the Judge allows camera in the court room

Thanks! It will be a busy day. MN hearing. Anthony hearing 1:30PM EST. And Kristi Cornwell Presser at 2PM EST.

Lera213
01-03-2011, 09:24 AM
Thanks! It will be a busy day. MN hearing. Anthony hearing 1:30PM EST. And Kristi Cornwell Presser at 2PM EST.

I haven't even looked at the Cornwell case, is that really long to even start? lol

oceanblueeyes
01-03-2011, 09:36 AM
The fact that Jonathan was allowed to take the stuffed cat, plus the "Is your mother's name Angela/Yes ma'am my mother's name is Angela" says to me that MN lured him out and that he walked out of that house thinking that Mona was going to take him somewhere that he and his mom and maybe the roommate were going to meet up. IMO, he grabbed the toy on his way out the door (though where was that toy the last time AD saw it?). IMO MN locked the door behind them as they were leaving.

When I read your post I cant help but think of Jessica Lunsford when Couey let her take her favorite stuffed animal.

imo

Lera213
01-03-2011, 09:39 AM
Sorry OT (posted because I know a lot of people reading this thread followed the ZB case too), HEARING today on the baker case at 4pm today.



http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/Elisa-Bakers-attorneys-seek-bond-reduction-112798734.html

oceanblueeyes
01-03-2011, 09:42 AM
Thanks! It will be a busy day. MN hearing. Anthony hearing 1:30PM EST. And Kristi Cornwell Presser at 2PM EST.

Thanks Suzi.

Do you think LE is going to announce that the body found is Kristi's?

IMO