PDA

View Full Version : TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #57



Pages : [1] 2 3

imamaze
02-04-2011, 10:48 PM
http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss50/Connie2/Missing/Hailey20Dunn-120lr.gif

Hailey is 13 years old. She was heading to stay with a friend on Monday Dec. 27th but never made it. She is 5'1" with hazel eyes and brown hair. She also has pierced ears. She was last seen at 1804 Chestnut, wearing navy blue sweat pants, a light colored T-shirt and pink and white shoes.
Anyone who has seen Hailey contact the Colorado City Police Dept. at 325-728-5294

Thread #1 Thread #2
Thread #3 Thread #4
Thread #5 Thread #6
Thread #7 Thread #8
Thread #9 Thread #10
Thread #11 Thread #12
Thread #13 Thread #14
Thread #15 Thread #16
Thread #17 Thread #18
Thread #19 Thread #20
Thread #21 Thread #22
Thread #23 Thread #24
Thread #25 Thread #26
Thread #27 Thread #28
Thread #29 Thread #30
Thread #31 Thread #32
Thread #33 Thread #34
Thread #35 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6036362&posted=1#post6036362) Thread #36
Thread #37 Thread #38
Thread #39 Thread #40
Thread #41 Thread #42
Thread #43 Thread #44 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6059221&posted=1#post6059221)
Thread #45 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6061440&posted=1#post6061440) Thread #46 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6064898&posted=1#post6064898)
Thread #47 Thread #48
Thread #49 Thread #50
Thread #51 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6080348&posted=1#post6080348) Thread #52 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6081941&posted=1#post6081941)
Thread #53 Thread #54 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6088111&posted=1#post6088111)
Thread #55 Thread #56

Media Links
Sar information for Hailey Dunn
Hailey Dunn Facebook/You Tube/MM site


You must read this post and hit the 'thanks' button before you post in this thread.

We do not allow rumors to be posted or perpetuated at WS.
Do not post a rumor or respond to a rumor.

No bashing Law Enforcement.

Direct quotes and screenshots from social networking sites are not allowed at WS.
You may discuss what is on a social networking site but must include the link. However, do not discuss or link to sites that are private.
Please do not post about other posters. That is a TOS violation because it is rude. Itís like talking behind someoneís back.
The only appropriate way to respond to problematic posts is to hit the alert button. We will then look at the post and handle it asap. Do not respond to a problematic post. That compounds the problem and delays the solution.
We do not allow the posting of personal information about people who have not been named as a POI or suspect by LE or MSM.
You must include a link to where you found the information in your post.
Just because a person is connected to a case doesn't mean we can immediately start using his/her name, even if it is an adult. There is no need to drag innocent people through the mud.
If people start talking to the media about the case then yes, they have decided they want their identity known. Then you can use their names in posts here at WS.
If suspects and family members are talked about in the major media outlets, you can use their names in posts here at WS.

We don't allow name posting of minorsí names, except for Hailey's, of course.

The full WS TOS and "rules" can be found here: The Rules

'Insiders' or "Locals"
Before you post ANY inside information that could help this case PLEASE report it to the police first. Here at Websleuths, we don't care about having "scoops" or "bombshells." We care about the cases, the people involved, and making sure Websleuths is not hindering the investigation by allowing people to post inside information that the police do not have yet.
If you know Hailey or her family and want to post about her, then WS admin needs to talk to you. Please email wsverify@xmission.com
Include:
The case
Your Websleuths name
Your phone number and a good time to call
Your real name.
In the subject line please put which case you are asking to be verified on.
It will all be kept strictly confidential.
Unless what you are saying can be verified by law enforcement and/or the media, it is not considered a "fact" here. You may personally know for 100% certainty that it is true, but unless you are verified and/or can back it up with a link, we do have to consider it to be a rumor. This is not to single anyone out or to ignore information, but to maintain the integrity of a case and keep the best interests of the victims at the forefront.
Please do what is right by the case first before you post anything on Websleuths.
Do not post about private conversations with case players unless the case player is aware that the conversation is going public.
If you are a local or insider and your posts do not include any "inside" information, you do not need to be verified. Please remember, however, that information as simple as what Mom does for a living or where BF works are considered inside information.

Check for professional and locals here...
Professional Posters & Verified Locals/Insiders


Please Continue here...

imamaze
02-04-2011, 10:51 PM
No more Topix to be linked or discussed on the Hailey Dunn Threads.

There are too many rumors there that are not allowed here.

Thank this post so we know you've read it.

imamaze
02-04-2011, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by grandmaj
I'm seeing questions about sleuthing. Let me try to explain.
Persons named as a POI or Suspect are fully sleuthable.
Minors are never sleuthable. When copying a quote from MSM we even change minor's names to initials only.
Everyone else. You can discuss what they have said in media appearances, what the news has quoted them as saying, and their actions as reported in the news. We don't get into their personal lives, accuse them, discuss their background unless it is in MSM. Only discuss them so far as what MSM is reporting.

I hope this helps simplify sleuthing. I don't know too many people who don't have a skeleton or two in their closet. Just because they are related to, or somehow associated to a case like this, we can't destroy their reputation. Sometimes these associates or relatives move from this category to POI. Then the rules of sleuthing change.
If you have questions drop a Moderator a PM and then you will know you are on safe ground before posting.
Carry ON. Hailey.

imamaze
02-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by grandmaj:
The moderators have talked this over. There were several of us on listening to the Radio Show with Clint D. tonight.
We may live to regret this but, we have decided to allow this interview with a link to be discussed in the Hailey Dunn Thread upstairs.

There are rules however.
At no time are you to discuss those in chat on that Radio Show, identify them other than by *caller* and at no time may you sleuth the callers on that radio show even so much as saying you think it was a WS Member.

There will be no warnings. If you chose to violate the rule above you will be on a long TO. I am closing this thread and the one upstairs. We expect everyone to Thank not only this post but the one in the Hailey thread. The threads will be closed for about five minutes for everyone to read this post.
Use the link to the show when referring to anything on the show.

A transcript will be great in case this show is removed in the future. The moderators would like to see any transcripts before you use them in the forum. Once we agree that they appear to be a good representation of the show we will approve them for use on the forum.

We have all placed our trust in you to follow the rules. Please don't disappoint us.
Thanks.......
Mods and Admin Team.
Please thank this post that you understand the rules.

For The Kids
02-04-2011, 11:00 PM
From the last thread

Today, 02:54 AM
Just Us
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by sorrell skye
IMO, BD's reaction on the NG Show seemed to imply (to me) that BD was blowing off what she was hearing (i.e. what I mean to say is that, IMO, BD's response seemed to imply that BD felt that her MIL's claims about SA lurking outside HD's bedroom door was *pulled out of her hat*, so to speak). MOO & double MOO.

Question: If a mother & daughter share a close relationship, and if a daughter feels she can come to her mother with her concerns, fears, feelings, etc., then WHY would a mother claim to be so in the dark about something as important as how her daughter feels about her live-in BF (especially since it now appears that several others were also made aware of these fears & feelings)?

Answer: Either HD DID come to her mother with her concerns, fears, feelings, etc., and was blown off, which then would have compelled HD to turn to other trusted family members or friends; OR perhaps HD & BD do not share a close relationship (for whatever reason) which then would STILL have compelled HD to turn to others who she trusts with her concerns, fears, feelings, etc.

Bottom line: Apparently, HD HAS talked to others about her fears & feelings regarding SA.

Even if it's true that HD never approached her own mother with these serious concerns - BD needs to ask herself "Why?", although this may be an extremely uncomfortable question for BD to ask herself.

A mother is the FIRST person a daughter turns to for help & protection.

If that doesn't occur - well, IMO, that's the biggest red flag of all.



And such a shame, also, that HD either didn't feel close enough to tell her father or NS. Or, if she did, that child protection services weren't called"



Thing is if she had told her mum what was happening and her mum didnt do anything about it..maybe she simply thought it was no use telling her father about it :(

For The Kids
02-04-2011, 11:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oslbUdJKRY0


Searching for Hailey

impatientredhead
02-04-2011, 11:04 PM
We are talking about a man many of us suspect raped and killed this child.
She was terrified of him. There are a 1000 reasons she didn't tell her father or someone who could intervene.

Maybe she thought he would kill BD.
He had threatened to in the past.

CD says she worships the ground DD walks on, maybe she was scared for him, or afraid to be separated from him.

Mom is obsessed with her (snip) boyfriend.
Dad is a loving father but overwhelmed with life, new babies, new "spouse", financial burdens, literally not enough room to take her.

DD may have been a huge anchor in HDs life.

I am not surprised she didn't tell CD.
I am surprised she told as many people what she did muster the courage to tell.

lynnb
02-04-2011, 11:05 PM
For those just joining in-
EXCLUSIVE ***LIVE BILLIE DUNN SPEAKS***
Bring Them Home Now
Date / Time: 2/7/2011 7:00 PM
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bringthemhomenow

katydid23
02-04-2011, 11:09 PM
From the last thread




snip...
Bottom line: Apparently, HD HAS talked to others about her fears & feelings regarding SA.

And such a shame, also, that HD either didn't feel close enough to tell her father or NS. Or, if she did, that child protection services weren't called"

Thing is if she had told her mum what was happening and her mum didnt do anything about it..maybe she simply thought it was no use telling her father about it :(


I never told my father about the sexual abuse from my uncle. Many young girls don't tell their fathers for a few major reasons.
SHAME is one main reason. The abusers make you feel ashamed and many even tell you that your father will think you are dirty and worthless.
Also, I was afraid that my father would kill mu uncle and no longer be around for me. I barely got to see my Dad enough after the divorce, and I worried that if he hurt my uncle, I would never see him again.

sorrell skye
02-04-2011, 11:09 PM
According to CD, as well as the statements of others who have given statements to the media that have been discussed in these many threads, prior to her disappearance, HD had expressed an ongoing desire to live with her Daddy.

That says a lot to me.

winterrose
02-04-2011, 11:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oslbUdJKRY0


Searching for Hailey

That was the most emotional video,CD in that pic in anguish just breaks my heart.Hailey is so beautiful and full of life.She's somewhere and someone knows.

sorrell skye
02-04-2011, 11:12 PM
TY, For The Kids, for the youtube video.

Beautiful.

Velouria
02-04-2011, 11:12 PM
Originally Posted by lillys
:floorlaugh: It's sad and funny at the same time.
I'm looking more forward to this interview than the Super Bowl. :crazy:

And I'll betcha one of these will involve a BIG Hail Mary pass. :D

impatientredhead
02-04-2011, 11:14 PM
And I'll betcha one of these will involve a BIG Hail Mary pass. :D

Not sure who would play receiver for that particular play.

Pink Panther
02-04-2011, 11:15 PM
More than four people have gone on the record to state that HD didn't like SA and wasn't comfortable around him. Hailey didn't seem at all comfortable staying "home" and spent much of last year roaming from home to home. Her mother says nothing about this. For some reason, the media doesn't even question her. Hmmm... As many do, I am still holding out hope that she ran away and is in hiding but after so much time, I'm afraid for the worse.

MOO

sorrell skye
02-04-2011, 11:18 PM
I am surprised she told as many people what she did muster the courage to tell.

respectfully sbm

I'm not surprised.

I'm not surprised by any of the sad & tragic details that have come out in these past weeks.

This is a child who has been begging for help - for a safe haven. For someone to listen & take action on her behalf.

If Hailey is alive, I pray she has found a safe haven.

If, tragically, Hailey is not alive, she has still found a safe haven, where she can never be harmed again.

Velouria
02-04-2011, 11:19 PM
Not sure who would play receiver for that particular play.

OH, I think she's hoping we, the audience will be the receivers. But I predict an incomplete pass.

For The Kids
02-04-2011, 11:19 PM
I never told my father about the sexual abuse from my uncle. Many young girls don't tell their fathers for a few major reasons.
SHAME is one main reason. The abusers make you feel ashamed and many even tell you that your father will think you are dirty and worthless.
Also, I was afraid that my father would kill mu uncle and no longer be around for me. I barely got to see my Dad enough after the divorce, and I worried that if he hurt my uncle, I would never see him again.

Thats another thing actually...apparently Shawn threatened to kill Clint before..maybe Shawn told her that if she told her dad he would hurt him?


Also Im sorry about what happened to you :(

Pondering Mind
02-04-2011, 11:27 PM
We are talking about a man many of us suspect raped and killed this child.
She was terrified of him. There are a 1000 reasons she didn't tell her father or someone who could intervene.

Maybe she thought he would kill BD.
He had threatened to in the past.

CD says she worships the ground DD walks on, maybe she was scared for him, or afraid to be separated from him.

Mom is obsessed with her scumbag boyfriend.
Dad is a loving father but overwhelmed with life, new babies, new "spouse", financial burdens, literally not enough room to take her.

DD may have been a huge anchor in HDs life.

I am not surprised she didn't tell CD.
I am surprised she told as many people what she did muster the courage to tell.

Excellent Post!..and sadly, my guess is you are right on the money... that's what I meant when I said I didn't believe this case is as complicated as some (and I'm not talking about posters) are trying to make it seem..

Tragically ..what you described (with individual variations of course) is so much more typical than many could ever imagine...

Pondering Mind
02-04-2011, 11:32 PM
Thats another thing actually...apparently Shawn threatened to kill Clint before..maybe Shawn told her that if she told her dad he would hurt him?


Also Im sorry about what happened to you :(

OMG..you are right!!!..and very possibly why Shawn was at the top of his list from the get-go...Why else would Shawn threaten Clint..Whether CD knew anything about that or not, idk..but whatever the reason was, it almost assuredly had to have something to do with Hailey or DD one...moo..

winterrose
02-04-2011, 11:37 PM
Thats another thing actually...apparently Shawn threatened to kill Clint before..maybe Shawn told her that if she told her dad he would hurt him?


Also Im sorry about what happened to you :(

You know what,from SA's 911 call we saw how he could manipulate and lie when he's the one who threatened BD and Hailey.He was on meds for mental problems,said so himself on the call.Looking at the vids,he's scary,watches horror movies everyday and has weapons.If Hailey had told BD,look how he twists things.I wouldn't doubt he would threaten CD or anyone else since he's already threatened them.She moved out two weeks before school was out,CD got her in January for some reason.What was it going to take before BD got it?Watching her emotionless face on NG when Grandma said what she did was eyeopening.

Quiche
02-04-2011, 11:38 PM
Shawn threatened CD? Have I missed something huge? :waitasec:

Pondering Mind
02-04-2011, 11:40 PM
Shawn threatened CD? Have I missed something huge? :waitasec:

Yes..back in February remember...all the talk of whether it was JUST Billie and Clint that he threatened or as SA admitted according to the affidavits..Hailey too...

Quiche
02-04-2011, 11:45 PM
Yes..back in February remember...all the talk of whether it was JUST Billie and Clint that he threatened or as SA admitted according to the affidavits..Hailey too...

:doh: Of course.

Pondering Mind
02-04-2011, 11:46 PM
5 weeks later...maybe, just maybe 2+2 is starting to =4...

winterrose
02-04-2011, 11:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngl8NYMpQ80

katydid23
02-04-2011, 11:50 PM
Shawn threatened CD? Have I missed something huge? :waitasec:

Go back and listen to the 911 calls. I think they are on Beane's page.

Billie says on the call that Shawn threatened to kill her and Clint.

winterrose
02-04-2011, 11:55 PM
Grandma said they tried to gain custody last January,CD had gotten Hailey from BD.He tried to take her,because she wanted to live with CD and Bd wanted her back.According to grandma SA had lived there off and on before January 2010.While she's saying this BD is emotionless,blinking the whole time.Grandma said she don't remember what CD said,he was concerned,whenever he talked to BD they would get in an argument and they stopped talking.I don't believe she never told BD,she was telling other people.

TexasGiGi
02-04-2011, 11:57 PM
I think it was this from Nancy Grace on the 17th

To Clint Dunn, this is Hailey`s father, Hailey`s father, I know you have been out physically searching for your little girl. What do you make of your mother`s fear that she was attacked by the boyfriend? I don`t want to focus just on the boyfriend, all right, because it could be somebody else. I don`t want to have tunnel vision on him. But she told us, here on the show, that your daughter feared him, that he would come and stand at her door at night.

C. DUNN: Yeah, you know, that kind of scared me, but I really didn`t want to hear it. Like your expert said the other day, it`s her emotions and she`s seen the worst things that can happen out of this. http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/17/ng.01.html

IMO, I think he doesn't want to hear it now, from his Mom, not that HD told him about it and he didn't want to hear it then, but I could be wrong.

winterrose
02-04-2011, 11:59 PM
Go back and listen to the 911 calls. I think they are on Beane's page.

Billie says on the call that Shawn threatened to kill her and Clint.

On the 911 call she said SA threatened her and CD,but didn't say on the call he threatened Hailey.SA admitted it in interviews,so it had to be on the officers written up report on the call.

CajunCares
02-04-2011, 11:59 PM
NG asked Grandma if she ever told her father about HD being scared of SA and grandma said she could not remember what CD said when she told him.

Then at another time NG ask CD what he thought about what his mom was claiming SA had done, and in MOO I think CD thought NG was referring to his moms theory about SA raping and murdering HD and CD responded that he did not want to hear that.

This is the way I saw it.
MOO

sorrell skye
02-05-2011, 12:05 AM
TY for the NG youtube link, winterrose.

Here's is a partial transcript of that same conversation during that interview:

GRACE: With us, Billie Dunn and Connie Jones. I want to go first to Connie Jones. This is Hailey`s grandmother. Ms. Jones, thank you for being with us. I understand that it wasn`t that long ago you tried to get custody, relatives tried to get custody away from Mommy? You wanted Hailey out of that home, is that correct?

CONNIE JONES, HAILEY`S PATERNAL GRANDMOTHER: Yes, ma`am. That was last January.

GRACE: What happened?

JONES: Well, I had went on vacation, and when I come back, Clint had said that he had Hailey and then Billie (INAUDIBLE) that he ended up getting her back and everything. And I didn`t even know any of this was going on until I came back.

GRACE: You didn`t know what was going on?

JONES: No, ma`am. All I know is that Clint tried to take her because Hailey wanted to stay with Clint. And (INAUDIBLE) wanted her back.(INAUDIBLE)

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/13/ng.01.html

According to CD's mother, CD had been trying to gain custody of HD last January (2010).

winterrose
02-05-2011, 12:10 AM
I just think CD didn't want to hear that now from grandma,because that would be the worse scenario and CD's out looking for a live Hailey.KWIM

Pondering Mind
02-05-2011, 12:10 AM
On the 911 call she said SA threatened her and CD,but didn't say on the call he threatened Hailey.SA admitted it in interviews,so it had to be on the officers written up report on the call.

I have a feeling that's not all the 911 calls as well..It may be, but if she had been calling all day, I doubt it. IF that were the case..the threat to Hailey could be on another call..

Pondering Mind
02-05-2011, 12:12 AM
I just think CD didn't want to hear that now from grandma,because that would be the worse scenario and CD's out looking for a live Hailey.KWIM

Me too...at least that's the way I understood it myself..I think his priority may have been..get Hailey back safe..then I'll deal with that..JMO tho

Beyond Belief
02-05-2011, 12:13 AM
Scratching my head, didn't SA just move in this past fall?

passionflower
02-05-2011, 12:17 AM
BD is so in to SA, but was/is SA in to BD????
Will SA put BD under the bus soon to save his own butt?
Just wondering.........

my_tee_mouse
02-05-2011, 12:22 AM
(BH: Ok. And I just have one more question for you and Iím going to let Rachel ask some questions but did Hailey ever want to, ever request to come and live with you?)

CD: Yes she did. Um, she did several times and I was trying to get on my feet and get a big enough house where I could have her, and we was kinda in the making of me getting her, but Öyes she had mentioned several times that she wanted to stay with me. She liked to be by me more. Sheís a daddyís girl. And of course I love her to death and I definitely, we was definitely going to have her living with us pretty soon. And as soon as we get her back she will be living with us. Sheíll be living with me.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bringthemhomenow/2011/02/03/tonights-show-clint-dunn-speaks-to-set-the-story-straight-and-patty-kreiger-case

Kimster
02-05-2011, 01:02 AM
ATTENTION PLEASE!

We don't do rumors here. Tricia abolished rumor threads a year and a half ago.

I do have a suggestion though. Why not go in the chat room? Try it out and see what you think. :kimsterwink:

I can't stand having members on time out, but the warnings aren't working anymore. Pay attention to what you are posting in here. Please.

Here's a link to the instructions on how to get to the chat room: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

lillys
02-05-2011, 01:25 AM
And I'll betcha one of these will involve a BIG Hail Mary pass. :D

:great::floorlaugh:

mnegri1973
02-05-2011, 01:27 AM
I have a feeling that's not all the 911 calls as well..It may be, but if she had been calling all day, I doubt it. IF that were the case..the threat to Hailey could be on another call..

Jumping off of your post PM.

Have any of the reports from the incidents from last Feb been released? I know and have heard the 911 calls but have not seen any reports or a paper trail. My question is, if a threat is made against another person, does LE not have to by law inform the person threatened? So would CD not have been told that he had a threat made against him? Also along the same thoughts, if there was indeed a threat made against either Hailey or her brother why in the world would LE have not informed the parents about this. In this case CD would have also been informed. Another thing, is why was CPS not involved in this report last Feb as well. There were two children under the age of 18 living in the house.

My other issues that I have with all of this, is we now have heard all of these people coming out stating how Hailey was afraid and did not want to stay in the home due to SA. If she was telling people this why in the world was nothing done!!! I know how CPS works. Any one of those adults who Hailey talked and confided in could have called CPS and by law CPS would have HAD to do an investigation. They would have spoken with Hailey and at that time she would have been safe to tell the social worker that she did not feel safe in the home and they would have have had her removed, even if it would have been temporary while the investigation was done!!

I feel badly for both Billie and Clint however IF that many people had been told by Hailey they would have had to know that something was going on. This is what tics me off the most is that not only did her parents fail to protect her but so did the other adults that she TRUSTED enough to confide in. There is NO EXCUSE for that.

JMOO

Mel

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 01:39 AM
Speaking of CPS when will DD get to go home?

mnegri1973
02-05-2011, 01:44 AM
Speaking of CPS when will DD get to go home?

My guess would be not until their investigation is over which I would also guess would coincide with LE's investigation on Hailey's case.

But again this is only my guess and is in no way fact.

Mel

Soulmagent
02-05-2011, 01:47 AM
Speaking of CPS when will DD get to go home?

Hopefully right after Hailey.

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 01:48 AM
FYI

Snip

According to tax records, the Dunns still collectively own their home at 1804 Chestnut, which they purchased in November 2001. Clinton Dunn owned 1143 Chestnut until 2008.

http://m.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/08/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/

yllek
02-05-2011, 01:52 AM
Jumping off of your post PM.

Have any of the reports from the incidents from last Feb been released? I know and have heard the 911 calls but have not seen any reports or a paper trail. My question is, if a threat is made against another person, does LE not have to by law inform the person threatened? So would CD not have been told that he had a threat made against him? Also along the same thoughts, if there was indeed a threat made against either Hailey or her brother why in the world would LE have not informed the parents about this. In this case CD would have also been informed. Another thing, is why was CPS not involved in this report last Feb as well. There were two children under the age of 18 living in the house.

My other issues that I have with all of this, is we now have heard all of these people coming out stating how Hailey was afraid and did not want to stay in the home due to SA. If she was telling people this why in the world was nothing done!!! I know how CPS works. Any one of those adults who Hailey talked and confided in could have called CPS and by law CPS would have HAD to do an investigation. They would have spoken with Hailey and at that time she would have been safe to tell the social worker that she did not feel safe in the home and they would have have had her removed, even if it would have been temporary while the investigation was done!!

I feel badly for both Billie and Clint however IF that many people had been told by Hailey they would have had to know that something was going on. This is what tics me off the most is that not only did her parents fail to protect her but so did the other adults that she TRUSTED enough to confide in. There is NO EXCUSE for that.

JMOO

Mel

I share your frustration, completely. I have a feeling CPS may have been called and investigated. I won't be one bit surprised if more than one report surfaces. IMO, based on everything we've heard and seen thus far, Billie's version of the truth does not match reality. I think she would really manipulate the situation with a case worker and go after the person who called in the complaint (she could probably figure it out) or take it out on Hailey. Heck, her daughter was missing for 3 weeks and she was already talking libel and slander by the media and the public. Extremely self-centered individual who takes no accountability for the clear and present danger she brought into her children's lives.

One of the hardest things about CPS investigations is the child often does not tell the case worker what they told others or what others have seen. Sometimes it's hard to prove neglect or abuse or endangerment - especially with people who can put on an act. Hailey may have been very unhappy, for very good reason, at home. Yet, if she couldn't be with Clint, she probably at least wanted to stay as close to him as as possible (and maybe feared being moved somewhere she didn't know or was too far from Dad). Or, she may have just been afraid of what her mom and/or SA would do if she was honest with a CPS investigator. I just get the feeling CPS was engaged at some point(s)...

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 01:59 AM
There are two victims here. Actually more when you consider extended family. BD and CD and it doesn't matter which way you are looking at this case.

Regardless of what they have done in their lives, what their backgrounds are, they are still Victims. This pointing fingers about what they knew or didn't know is not going to help find Hailey and turned this thread upside down. I removed it all with cooperation from other moderators.

Lets move on to taking the facts we do know and making the puzzle pieces fit please.

Pondering Mind
02-05-2011, 02:01 AM
Jumping off of your post PM.

Have any of the reports from the incidents from last Feb been released? I know and have heard the 911 calls but have not seen any reports or a paper trail. My question is, if a threat is made against another person, does LE not have to by law inform the person threatened? So would CD not have been told that he had a threat made against him? Also along the same thoughts, if there was indeed a threat made against either Hailey or her brother why in the world would LE have not informed the parents about this. In this case CD would have also been informed. Another thing, is why was CPS not involved in this report last Feb as well. There were two children under the age of 18 living in the house.

My other issues that I have with all of this, is we know have heard all of these people coming out stating how Hailey was afraid and did not want to stay in the home due to SA. If she was telling people this why in the world was nothing done!!! I know how CPS works. Any one of those adults who Hailey talked and confided in could have called CPS and by law CPS would have HAD to do an investigation. They would have spoken with Hailey and at that time she would have been safe to tell the social worker that she did not feel safe in the home and they would have have had her removed, even if it would have been temporary while the investigation was done!!

I feel badly for both Billie and Clint however IF that many people had been told by Hailey they would have had to know that something was going on. This is what tics me off the most is that not only did her parents fail to protect her but so did the other adults that she TRUSTED enough to confide in. There is NO EXCUSE for that.

JMOO

Mel

I haven't seen any reports yet and I'm not sure how that works in Tx. as far as something like that being public information. JMO, but I feel sure that if they were available the media would have them by now. We probably won't know how detailed they are until a trial...

As far as the abuse issue (if any existed ..and I believe there was, but of course I don't know that) we don't don't for sure who all knew...Plus, I was thinking earlier..We can't assume that DSS/CPS, whatever it's called in Tx has not been involved..They would NEVER confirm or deny something like that..It is possible that they had been involved, we just have no way of knowing either way..One thing for sure though..they are now! They were involved in removing Hailey's brother and THAT tells me alot..Nobody ever invites DSS into their home...so that was not a choice on her part..I worked with DSS/CPS in the capacity of a Guardian ad Litem for several years and it's surprising how difficult it can be to coax a child to tell you when they have been abused..and short of physical, outwardly signs..you just have to know what to look for and do a 'thorough investigation'. Children very often DO NOT want their parents to go to jail no matter what's been done..So incredibly sad..and it always amazed me how many adults..aunts, uncles,grandparents don't want to tell what going on either..maybe because they don't want the abuser to go to jail..or sometimes they are afraid of the abuser themselves..With children..you have to remember this is often what they are thinking.."What if I tell what happened..and my parent(s) find out I told and then I get left here" ..and for a Judge to allow you to take custody right then and there, it has to be MAJOR...What a horrifying, helpless, hopeless feeling that must be for a child....
..

There may very well be many people in this case that will be living with a lot of regrets for the rest of their life...and having lost a child myself..even though there was nothing that I could have done differently that would have mattered, the "What If's" haunt me 36 years later...so I can't imagine living with theirs..Thank G@d, I don't have to!

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 02:10 AM
Speaking of CPS when will DD get to go home?

When they have reasonable assurance that his parent will take due precautions to provide a safe environment for him.

TGIRecovered
02-05-2011, 02:11 AM
Pondering, can you please link the info that confirms that DD was removed by CPS? if I recall correctly, Kampfer issued a statement that he was mistaken when he said that they removed DD. I thought that Billie chose to send DD to live with her brother because of the hateful people cruising the house and throwing things or hurling insults. Has there been a different statement negating Kampfer's statment that he was mistaken?

TIA!

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 02:15 AM
Thank you for posting the disciplinary sanctions for Nurses in the previous thread.

BD is in a heap of trouble for not renewing her license on time and Iíd donít think she has begun to come with terms with what she has done to her career. She is pretending everything is normal at work when it isnít. BDís doesnít have a valid reason for not paying her nursing fees on time and according to what I read in the disciplinary sanctions for Nurses, she has stiff fines to pay.

IMO, Practicing without a valid license falls in the Disciplinary Sanctions for Lying and Falsification.

snip

Failure to cooperate during the course of a Board investigation by supplying false
documents or failing to disclose information is grounds for denial or revocation of the
license. Reckless disregard for the Nursing Practice Act, the Boardís rules and regulations, and/or a Board Order is also grounds for denial or revocation and will require at a minimum, the imposition of a punitive fine in addition to other stipulations.

Nurse Imposter

The Board has no jurisdiction over a person who does not have a license to practice
nursing in the State of Texas yet holds him or herself out to be a nurse. The Board does
have jurisdiction over an individual who has a nursing license or has had one in the past
and represents him or herself as licensed for a broader scope of practice, e.g., LVN to RN,RN to APN. The Board has no tolerance for any form of impostering and will impose the maximum dollar amount of fine allowed under Board rules and may impose a disciplinary sanction. The following factors will be considered in deliberating the level of discipline from remedial education with fine through revocation: intent, potential or actual harm to patients, length of time as an imposter, and insight/remorse.

The Board believes that employers of nurses should verify licensure utilizing the Boardís
website and thereby avoid hiring a nurse imposter or allowing a nurse to practice beyond his/her scope. The Board may impose a disciplinary sanction to the nurse employer found responsible for hiring a nurse imposter.

Disciplinary sanctions
http://www.bon.state.tx.us/disciplinaryaction/dsp.html

TGIRecovered
02-05-2011, 02:17 AM
ConcernedMother and ImpatientRedhead,

Is there new information about this? Last I heard, Kampfer told media that he was wrong about CPS and that they did not remove DD...Billie chose to send him to his uncle. Has this changed again?

txsvicki
02-05-2011, 02:18 AM
I hope Haylie ran away, but at age 13, and the only people she could have ran to don't know where she is. It's very doubtful. And, I hope that DD is not made to go back to that house if he doesn't want to.

Pondering Mind
02-05-2011, 02:18 AM
Pondering, can you please link the info that confirms that DD was removed by CPS? if I recall correctly, Kampfer issued a statement that he was mistaken when he said that they removed DD. I thought that Billie chose to send DD to live with her brother because of the hateful people cruising the house and throwing things or hurling insults. Has there been a different statement negating Kampfer's statment that he was mistaken?

TIA!

TGIR, I never saw anything saying he was mistaken..There may well have been something, I've just been trying to take longer 'breaks' checking in here, so I could have missed it. If I did, I'll be glad to delete..

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 02:19 AM
ConcernedMother and ImpatientRedhead,

Is there new information about this? Last I heard, Kampfer told media that he was wrong about CPS and that they did not remove DD...Billie chose to send him to his uncle. Has this changed again?

Why don't we work with links. Do you have a link that says that there was an error in speaking?

yllek
02-05-2011, 02:22 AM
Pondering, can you please link the info that confirms that DD was removed by CPS? if I recall correctly, Kampfer issued a statement that he was mistaken when he said that they removed DD. I thought that Billie chose to send DD to live with her brother because of the hateful people cruising the house and throwing things or hurling insults. Has there been a different statement negating Kampfer's statment that he was mistaken?

TIA!


I'm, of course, not Pondering Mind, but had the link on hand. CPS was indeed involved, as confirmed by Kampfer. CPS cannot confirm/deny by law themselves. If the story of DD getting trouble at school and people throwing insults was BD's motive to simply ask her brother to let him stay there, there would be no need for CPS. While they approved Billie's brother as his legal guardian, it was a state-mandatedl action to remove him from the home. I have seen no retraction to his original statement (but if anyone finds one, please post it - I could have missed something)... I believe LE has no motive not to let Billie float her spin on it - the move was for DD's protection and I don't think LE is out to get Billie... Kampfer was soft in his wording, imo...

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jan/19/missing-teens-brother-staying-with-relative/

Pondering Mind
02-05-2011, 02:22 AM
I may be wrong..I've been planning a baby shower for the last couple of days, so I may have missed something..speaking of..I still haven't baked those cupcakes and that's what I was going to do 2 hours ago! That should tell me something there, lol! Nite All!

gngr~snap
02-05-2011, 02:24 AM
Thank you for posting the disciplinary sanctions for Nurses in the previous thread.

BD is in a heap of trouble for not renewing her license on time and I’d don’t think she has begun to come with terms with what she has done to her career. She is pretending everything is normal at work when it isn’t. BD’s doesn’t have a valid reason for not paying her nursing fees on time and according to what I read in the disciplinary sanctions for Nurses, she has stiff fines to pay.

IMO, Practicing without a valid license falls in the Disciplinary Sanctions for Lying and Falsification.

snip

Failure to cooperate during the course of a Board investigation by supplying false
documents or failing to disclose information is grounds for denial or revocation of the
license. Reckless disregard for the Nursing Practice Act, the Board’s rules and regulations, and/or a Board Order is also grounds for denial or revocation and will require at a minimum, the imposition of a punitive fine in addition to other stipulations.

Nurse Imposter

The Board has no jurisdiction over a person who does not have a license to practice
nursing in the State of Texas yet holds him or herself out to be a nurse. The Board does
have jurisdiction over an individual who has a nursing license or has had one in the past
and represents him or herself as licensed for a broader scope of practice, e.g., LVN to RN,RN to APN. The Board has no tolerance for any form of impostering and will impose the maximum dollar amount of fine allowed under Board rules and may impose a disciplinary sanction. The following factors will be considered in deliberating the level of discipline from remedial education with fine through revocation: intent, potential or actual harm to patients, length of time as an imposter, and insight/remorse.

The Board believes that employers of nurses should verify licensure utilizing the Board’s
website and thereby avoid hiring a nurse imposter or allowing a nurse to practice beyond his/her scope. The Board may impose a disciplinary sanction to the nurse employer found responsible for hiring a nurse imposter.

Disciplinary sanctions
http://www.bon.state.tx.us/disciplinaryaction/dsp.html

It may be common knowledge to everyone... but, in case it is not, most healthcare systems administer a test of basic knowledge and require a minimum passing grade before a nurse is actually offered the job. I Should SAY at least in GA...
so it would make it harder to pass oneself off as a "nurse" especially if one bombes the test.
MOO

TGIRecovered
02-05-2011, 02:25 AM
Grandmaj, isn't the link supposed to come from the person posting the information in the first place? I am simply asking them for a link to the info they are posting as fact. the fact that Kampfer retracted his inital statement was discussed here at length at the time it happened.

Why is it my responsibility to disprove their info... they are the ones who brought it up and claim it to be fact?

Thank you for helping to clear this up !

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 02:28 AM
CPS and their spokesman (who should know better) are not allowed to make public statements about ongoing investigations or the status of minors.

My understanding is that it was confirmed that CPS interviewed DD. And BD agreed to him being moved to the uncle's home.

Which would make both statements true. CPS did not take him because she agreed before that needed to be done. And would make PK's statement that he was incorrect that CPS took DD from the home necessary and accurate. He never should have been commenting on DD and his case file to begin with.

Voluntary agreements to move the child is a a situation that is easier to reverse as well. Which is better for DD and much less stressful than the court putting him in a nonfamily home. I feel so badly for him.

sorrell skye
02-05-2011, 02:33 AM
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jan/19/missing-teens-brother-staying-with-relative/

The brother of missing Colorado City teenager Hailey Dunn is staying with a relative, family members said Wednesday.

Pete Kampfer, city manager of Colorado City, confirmed the report and said the Texas Department of Protective and Family Services was involved in the placement of 16-year-old [DD] in another home.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/26545922/detail.html

KTXS learned Wednesday that Hailey Dunn's older brother, [DD], has been taken into temporary custody of Child Protective Services.

Colorado City Manager Pete Kampfer said it is common practice to remove a child when a situation like this occurs.

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 02:36 AM
Here is the link as requested.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/26564175/detail.html

Thursday, we did speak to a representative from Child Protective Services. Wednesday, we reported Hailey's older brother David was removed from Billie Dunn's home. Thursday, CPS would not confirm if they are investigating the family.

However, a spokeswoman did say there are instances when CPS is investigating a family that they ask the family to place a child voluntarily outside the home pending the outcome of that investigation.

BD was on Nancy Grace saying he was not removed, which of course can not be verified due to CPS policy regarding privacy and investigations. So all things considered that cannot be considered fact either.

Janeumayer
02-05-2011, 02:37 AM
Thought I should bring this over from the last thread as I couldn't tag it:

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/janeunayer/Hailey_Dunn_Timeline3.jpg

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 02:38 AM
Pondering, can you please link the info that confirms that DD was removed by CPS? if I recall correctly, Kampfer issued a statement that he was mistaken when he said that they removed DD. I thought that Billie chose to send DD to live with her brother because of the hateful people cruising the house and throwing things or hurling insults. Has there been a different statement negating Kampfer's statment that he was mistaken?

TIA!

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/19/official-rumor-untrue-missing-colorado-city-teen-h/?print=1

Pete Kampfer, city manager of Colorado City, confirmed the report and said the Texas Department of Protective and Family Services was involved in the placement of 16-year-old David Dunn in another home.

Officials at Child Protective Services, however, could not confirm involvement in the case, said CPS public information officer Marleigh Meisner.

BBM If we are going to state that you recall something different in the spirit of asking for a link from other posters, you should provide one which states that Pete K recalled his statement.

Thanks.

Amster
02-05-2011, 02:42 AM
Didn't one of Hailey's friends also say Hailey was afraid of SA? I think she was interviewed....I'll look for the link. Not MB, another little girl.

swedie
02-05-2011, 02:43 AM
Hi everyone!
I live in Canada and just learnt of this poor little girl's disappearance on NancyG show. My heart breaks for all those who love her and and would love nothing more then to have Hailey back in their arms.

We have a case in Canada here where I feel Deju all over again. The child who went missing was ToriS. I don't know if anyone followed her case, but it is very heartbreaking. There are so many similarities in these 2 cases, it's unreal. #1 similarity is how so many people speculated mom was guilty in the disappearance of Tori. She certainly took a lot of flack and the sad truth was, she was not the one guilty of her daughter's death. 2 people are sitting in jail right now. A 19 year old female who plead guilty and a 29 year old male who will probably have his trial this year, as he's pleading not guilty.

I have a very hard time believing that any mother would/could be involved in her child's death, but that's just me. Unfortunately it happens way to often.

I watched BD's PC the other day, and what I came away with is that she was very nervous, sad, frusrated. At the end when she was asked about whether she was in contact with SA, she reluctantly divulged "we're friendly". She somewhat turned away as if to avoid what I assume possible glares or smirks from onlookers. I just wonder if she is only keeping in contact with SA hoping he break. It just seemed hard for her to admit she still had contact with him. The only problem is tho, is if they're still talking on the phone, he won't say anything knowing he could be monitored. I wonder if they see each other in person. If BD has no knowledge of his possible involvement, and she's staying in touch with him hoping he'll crack, ugh that would be horrifying being in his presence and having suspicions. Our Canadian mom held PCs everyday, never searched, never cried, lived with her bf who had a criminal past, drug use... so many similarities it's actually scarey. I guess that's why I'm second guessing our right now giving BC the benefit of a doubt, that possible BC isn't involved.

Hailey please come home! You are loved and wanted.

Bless you people who are so determined to help find this precious little girl.

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 02:45 AM
January 19th episode of Nancy Grace BD says herself that CPS interviewed DD.

Same day PK confirms that CPS was involved in the protective custody transfer.

CPS clarifies later that day that they cannot officially comment on the case.

PK and CPS state that transfer of children during an investigation is a common precautionary step while not commenting on any specific case.

Pondering Mind
02-05-2011, 02:48 AM
Here is the link as requested.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/26564175/detail.html

Thursday, we did speak to a representative from Child Protective Services. Wednesday, we reported Hailey's older brother David was removed from Billie Dunn's home. Thursday, CPS would not confirm if they are investigating the family.

However, a spokeswoman did say there are instances when CPS is investigating a family that they ask the family to place a child voluntarily outside the home pending the outcome of that investigation.

BD was on Nancy Grace saying he was not removed, which of course can not be verified due to CPS policy regarding privacy and investigations. So all things considered that cannot be considered fact either.


That doesn't say that's the case here at all though..'there are instances when' ? So, is this the *confirmation* that TGIR is talking about? That confirms that CPS is not going to confirm or deny..just as I said in my post..I KNOW that people talk differently in Texas..so I'm sure CPS must be different too..:banghead:..but in SC at least if DSS (as it is called here) is involved in any way..they are calling the shots until THEY say otherwise, I assure you. Billie may VERY WELL have been told to send him somewhere or they would...THAT'S NOT unusual at all..I'd bet Tx is NOT that much different in the respect that once they are involved...Billie won't be bringing him home until THEY say so...JMHO and all that...


This is so ridiculous....that's MO too...

Allusonz
02-05-2011, 02:49 AM
Hi everyone!
I live in Canada and just learnt of this poor little girl's disappearance on NancyG show. My heart breaks for all those who love her and and would love nothing more then to have Hailey back in their arms.



Respectfully snipped :)


:welcome:

We are all praying !!!

belimom
02-05-2011, 02:49 AM
Didn't one of Hailey's friends also say Hailey was afraid of SA? I think she was interviewed....I'll look for the link. Not MB, another little girl.

Amster, I remember it also. It was a video - and I can't recall where it was posted, but I hope that helps you in your search...

Breathe
02-05-2011, 02:49 AM
Welcome swedie! :)

Wise Old Owl
02-05-2011, 02:50 AM
January 19th episode of Nancy Grace BD says herself that CPS interviewed DD.

Same day PK confirms that CPS was involved in the protective custody transfer.

CPS clarifies later that day that they cannot officially comment on the case.

PK and CPS state that transfer of children during an investigation is a common precautionary step while not commenting on any specific case.
And the key word to all that is "placed".

DD was "placed" with his uncle. Even BD said on NG that she decided to "place" him there. The article linked above used the word "placement".

DD was "placed" with relatives pending the outcome of this investigation. You can bet a judge was involved and paperwork was signed. That's what they do when they "place" a child.

Allison907
02-05-2011, 02:51 AM
((( swedie ))) Welcome to Websleuths!

Amster
02-05-2011, 02:53 AM
Amster, I remember it also. It was a video - and I can't recall where it was posted, but I hope that helps you in your search...

Still looking for it, thanks! Glad someone else remembered it!

Soulmagent
02-05-2011, 02:53 AM
Welcome! Swedie.

I did not follow Victoria Stafford case very close but I do remember it. I never did hear if she knew her murders.

I hope Hailey case turns out very different than Victoria's case.

And again Welcome!

swedie
02-05-2011, 02:53 AM
Was there ever any possible evidence found at any of the landfill sites? I know if there was, they won't release what they found. I'm just wondering if by chance SA did turn his coveralls at work, and whoever cleans them decided they were too worn out to reuse and possibly ended up at the landfill. Maybe this is something that was found. (If anything has been found) Sorry hope this makes sense lol.

winterrose
02-05-2011, 02:55 AM
And the key word to all that is "placed".

DD was "placed" with his uncle. Even BD said on NG that she decided to "place" him there. The article linked above used the word "placement".

DD was "placed" with relatives pending the outcome of this investigation. You can bet a judge was involved and paperwork was signed. That's what they do when they "place" a child.

And he's living right around the corner from CD,he just took him to his first martial arts class.

swedie
02-05-2011, 03:06 AM
Welcome! Swedie.

I did not follow Victoria Stafford case very close but I do remember it. I never did hear if she knew her murders.

I hope Hailey case turns out very different than Victoria's case.

And again Welcome!

Thank you for the warm welcome!
It has been reported that the murderers just chose her at random. Tori's mom had spoke to the female's (convicted) mother about breeding their Shitzus once or twice, and Tori's mom's bf was familar also I believe with the female's mom regarding drugs, if my memory serves me correctly. I can hardly wait for justice to be fully served in that case.

I pray for a different outcome also in Hailey's case. This is so heartbreaking.

swedie
02-05-2011, 03:06 AM
Thank you everyone for the warm, heartfelt welcome!!!

katydid23
02-05-2011, 03:12 AM
We know that Hailey slept often at her father's house. Has there been any reference to DD sleeping there also? Just wondered how that worked since their separation.

Yes, DD spent a lot of time there too. I remember seeing references here about DD spending the night at Clint's.

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 03:13 AM
We don't discuss minors ! Only so far as what is reported in MSM. That means we don't speculate on minors either.

Beyond Belief
02-05-2011, 03:22 AM
Good night y'all. I hope we get closer to finding Hailey tomorrow.
BB

swedie
02-05-2011, 03:22 AM
I really wonder about why DD was taking into CPS. Once again I will refer to the previously talked about case of TS. Her 11 year old brother remained at home with his mom and her bf thru all of this. Many took LDT and LE would not comment on the results, but TS's mom insisted that they passed. Maybe the laws are different here in Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/619277

GetSmart
02-05-2011, 03:33 AM
BeanE's post ..Yep. That would mean they went to the ATM together, went to her mom's house, and drove all the way home without him having said a word about Hailey have 'left' for the night, and without her having asked how are the kids? where are they? what have they been doing all day? what should we fix them for dinner?

Too, too bizarre.

Almost sounds more like they came home, and then, a story was constructed, and plans for what to do about things the next day.


Exactly what I have been asking or thinking ...I would always ask my son's dad .. and Step dad that.. "what did y'all do for dinner? or if son had went somewhere with people i would ask ..did u give him spending money? Just in case he needed something ...
Those are automatic questions or conversations ..

This is what really speaks out to me... and even as a "boy" he always took a book bag with him so he could have his own stuff you know kids.. and with her being a girl most assuredly would have taken "things" no girl goes out with out her girl things .. at least the kids I know don't.

Dee10
02-05-2011, 03:36 AM
Hi everyone!
I live in Canada and just learnt of this poor little girl's disappearance on NancyG show. My heart breaks for all those who love her and and would love nothing more then to have Hailey back in their arms.

We have a case in Canada here where I feel Deju all over again. The child who went missing was ToriS. I don't know if anyone followed her case, but it is very heartbreaking. There are so many similarities in these 2 cases, it's unreal. #1 similarity is how so many people speculated mom was guilty in the disappearance of Tori. She certainly took a lot of flack and the sad truth was, she was not the one guilty of her daughter's death. 2 people are sitting in jail right now. A 19 year old female who plead guilty and a 29 year old male who will probably have his trial this year, as he's pleading not guilty.

I have a very hard time believing that any mother would/could be involved in her child's death, but that's just me. Unfortunately it happens way to often.

I watched BD's PC the other day, and what I came away with is that she was very nervous, sad, frusrated. At the end when she was asked about whether she was in contact with SA, she reluctantly divulged "we're friendly". She somewhat turned away as if to avoid what I assume possible glares or smirks from onlookers. I just wonder if she is only keeping in contact with SA hoping he break. It just seemed hard for her to admit she still had contact with him. The only problem is tho, is if they're still talking on the phone, he won't say anything knowing he could be monitored. I wonder if they see each other in person. If BD has no knowledge of his possible involvement, and she's staying in touch with him hoping he'll crack, ugh that would be horrifying being in his presence and having suspicions. Our Canadian mom held PCs everyday, never searched, never cried, lived with her bf who had a criminal past, drug use... so many similarities it's actually scarey. I guess that's why I'm second guessing our right now giving BC the benefit of a doubt, that possible BC isn't involved.

Hailey please come home! You are loved and wanted.

Bless you people who are so determined to help find this precious little girl.

Thank you for pointing that out, I keep that exact case in mind in this case. All cases are different of course, but as you pointed out there are huge similarities between the V. Stafford case and where we are in this case IMO...the S. Thompson (at points) comes to mind as well IMO. I will never forget both cases & will be following until little Victoria and Somer get the justice. I have faith it won't be long until Hailey's case is solved! I have learned, parents of missing children are not Saints (nobody is), but...it is vital to get your timeline straight and don't focus on public opinion...just my observations.

BTW ~ Welcome to Websleuths!

Melanie
02-05-2011, 03:45 AM
And I'll betcha one of these will involve a BIG Hail Mary pass. :D

ummmm.....me too!

:great:

kinda sad isn't it ;)

Mel

Hatch
02-05-2011, 03:52 AM
There are numerous cases of missing and murdered children: And it seems to me that sex and drugs are in the scenario somewhere ! The question is , Are there statistics anywhere that show that this Sex, Drug and Child murders are connected?

Since I am not in the Drug scene ! I just cannot put it together, I can understand the Sex and Drugs, but why the children ? That bothers me so much !

swedie
02-05-2011, 03:58 AM
There are numerous cases of missing and murdered children: And it seems to me that sex and drugs are in the scenario somewhere ! The question is , Are there statistics anywhere that show that this Sex, Drug and Child murders are connected?

Since I am not in the Drug scene ! I just cannot put it together, I can understand the Sex and Drugs, but why the children ? That bothers me so much !

Funny Hatcher how I was thinking the same thing recently. A lot of these case too seem to happen with low income families too. I'm not trying to label, just seems it's a common thread too. Drugs yes, seems to be #1 common denominator it seems. So, so sad.

winterrose
02-05-2011, 04:06 AM
Is anyone in chat?

gngr~snap
02-05-2011, 04:09 AM
Can I link pbs?
Interesting info on backward investigation to find your source
CDC does it and trace contagiois ilness..

IF not allowed I will delete.

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/techniques/research.html

Avoid dubious secondary sources (textbooks, articles, encyclopedias). They recycle previously used material, and perpetuate falsehoods. If you accept material from a tainted source (e.g., the Internet, Geraldo, your 6th cousin) do not mix that material with your other research unless, and until, you track each fact to the primary source. Above all, you must think like a Detective. Learn to quickly size up the quality of information, and cross-examine your sources. Did the author have a hidden motive? Where are the holes in the story? Is it really evidence, or just a red herring? Become Sherlock Holmes.

txsvicki
02-05-2011, 04:11 AM
BeanE's post ..Yep. That would mean they went to the ATM together, went to her mom's house, and drove all the way home without him having said a word about Hailey have 'left' for the night, and without her having asked how are the kids? where are they? what have they been doing all day? what should we fix them for dinner?

Too, too bizarre.

Almost sounds more like they came home, and then, a story was constructed, and plans for what to do about things the next day.


Exactly what I have been asking or thinking ...I would always ask my son's dad .. and Step dad that.. "what did y'all do for dinner? or if son had went somewhere with people i would ask ..did u give him spending money? Just in case he needed something ...
Those are automatic questions or conversations ..

This is what really speaks out to me... and even as a "boy" he always took a book bag with him so he could have his own stuff you know kids.. and with her being a girl most assuredly would have taken "things" no girl goes out with out her girl things .. at least the kids I know don't.



It was pretty strange to go to the ATM for grocery money yet no mention of going to buy any or talk of getting home to fix the kids something to eat at that fairly late hour, or at least Haylie something for supper after being on her own all day long. It seemed to all be about SA and also needing gas money, which they may not have needed had he not been out running around all over different towns that day. I'd love to know what LE found in the trash or sink as evidence of what (or nothing) that Haylie supposedly ate that day. The teen could probably tell them what food was in the house and what might have been used since boys are always looking through the kitchen for food and snacks. If Haylie didn't eat that day or go to buy any food then she wasn't able to, IMO.

ThoughtFox
02-05-2011, 05:55 AM
It was pretty strange to go to the ATM for grocery money yet no mention of going to buy any or talk of getting home to fix the kids something to eat at that fairly late hour, or at least Haylie something for supper after being on her own all day long. It seemed to all be about SA and also needing gas money, which they may not have needed had he not been out running around all over different towns that day. I'd love to know what LE found in the trash or sink as evidence of what (or nothing) that Haylie supposedly ate that day. The teen could probably tell them what food was in the house and what might have been used since boys are always looking through the kitchen for food and snacks. If Haylie didn't eat that day or go to buy any food then she wasn't able to, IMO.

That's really an interesting thought. I wonder if LE went through the garbage from that day? I hope so.

At the same time, was the distance really that great between the work, the ATM, and home? Did they always talk about the kids in the car?

I agree it's odd that they didn't discuss Hailey's whereabouts in the car, but then, SA isn't their father so perhaps BD wasn't used to talking to him about the kids every time they were alone. We know he's a strange guy anyway!

I cook almost every night, but sometimes my boys are just as happy eating a pizza or a tv dinner after school. So the kids weren't going to starve if they didn't go straight home - lots of parents don't go straight home when they have teenagers, and we all know that. Even if they had stopped to buy groceries instead of "whatever" they bought, the kids still would have been all right.

The problem is, the kids weren't home at all and BD didn't know! That's what bothers me. This guy didn't bother telling her anything about the kids apparently. And that drives me crazy.

If Hailey indeed drifted in and out of the house in the afternoon, they might not have had fixed mealtimes the way some of us do. That's not a sin or crime either, and we all know families that eat later than we do, or who don't cook at all. But again, that's not really the problem. The problem was that SA withheld information about where Hailey was and where she was going (if any of that was true, which I doubt).

Tugela
02-05-2011, 06:53 AM
I hope Haylie ran away, but at age 13, and the only people she could have ran to don't know where she is. It's very doubtful. And, I hope that DD is not made to go back to that house if he doesn't want to.

Or are not saying. The suspicion is on SA because he had an unusual day the day she dissappeared. But much of that suspicion has been because of BDs changing stories.

You should keep in mind that allthough SA had an unusual day, so did CD (according the great little table prepared by Janeumayer here) and if you go by BDs changing accounts of the events of those few days, SDs behaviour is also odd.

katydid23
02-05-2011, 07:08 AM
Or are not saying. The suspicion is on SA because he had an unusual day the day she dissappeared. But much of that suspicion has been because of BDs changing stories.

You should keep in mind that allthough SA had an unusual day, so did SD (according the great little table prepared by Janeumayer here (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6096646&postcount=263)) and if you go by BDs changing accounts of the events of those few days, SDs behaviour is also odd.

Who is SD? Sorry, I am confused.

Tugela
02-05-2011, 07:09 AM
We are talking about a man many of us suspect raped and killed this child.
She was terrified of him. There are a 1000 reasons she didn't tell her father or someone who could intervene.

Maybe she thought he would kill BD.
He had threatened to in the past.

CD says she worships the ground DD walks on, maybe she was scared for him, or afraid to be separated from him.

Mom is obsessed with her (snip) boyfriend.
Dad is a loving father but overwhelmed with life, new babies, new "spouse", financial burdens, literally not enough room to take her.

DD may have been a huge anchor in HDs life.

I am not surprised she didn't tell CD.
I am surprised she told as many people what she did muster the courage to tell.

What you should be more surprised about is that none of these people told LE about this early on, and some of them must surely have been interviewed. We know this because if they had, those allegations would have been included in the search warrant affidavits as contributing to probable cause, and they weren't.

That suggests that these allegations came up much later, after SA came under the public spotlight, which makes them suspect. Especially since they appear to mostly come from CDs side of the family, who would have no reason to like SA in the first place.

If you know something, and are willing to go on national TV to say it because you feel so strongly about it, why wouldn't you do it to LE right up front at the beginning of the investigation?

Tugela
02-05-2011, 07:10 AM
Who is SD? Sorry, I am confused.

My error, CD. These people confuse me greatly :crazy:

For The Kids
02-05-2011, 07:12 AM
Hopefully right after Hailey.

If Hailey is found alive..i hope she wont go home..or at least not to Billlie.

teddiebear1955
02-05-2011, 08:16 AM
The only thing I can think of is "She is not in the house."
'
snipped from last thread also this "She is not in the living room"


what is BD meaning by this remark?????? it just seems so strange to talk about your daughter missing like this......

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 08:28 AM
There are numerous cases of missing and murdered children: And it seems to me that sex and drugs are in the scenario somewhere ! The question is , Are there statistics anywhere that show that this Sex, Drug and Child murders are connected?

Since I am not in the Drug scene ! I just cannot put it together, I can understand the Sex and Drugs, but why the children ? That bothers me so much !

I think the connection is something called "neglect". If so focused on drugs, sex/porn, bf, gf, etc or even Farmville that they pay no attention to the child, and give the perp the opportunity to walk into the scenario. Seems to me the teens here were allowed to come and go without many questions or concern....including the 25 yr old who moved in. JMO

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 08:35 AM
Or are not saying. The suspicion is on SA because he had an unusual day the day she dissappeared. But much of that suspicion has been because of BDs changing stories.

You should keep in mind that allthough SA had an unusual day, so did CD (according the great little table prepared by Janeumayer here (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6096646&postcount=263)) and if you go by BDs changing accounts of the events of those few days, SDs behaviour is also odd.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice all the oddities in the other players in this.

Thanks for the link.

For The Kids
02-05-2011, 08:50 AM
Pondering, can you please link the info that confirms that DD was removed by CPS? if I recall correctly, Kampfer issued a statement that he was mistaken when he said that they removed DD. I thought that Billie chose to send DD to live with her brother because of the hateful people cruising the house and throwing things or hurling insults. Has there been a different statement negating Kampfer's statment that he was mistaken?

TIA!

The police said CPS removed DD. Because Billie says no she sent him away doesnt make it the truth.

MOO

SoSueMe
02-05-2011, 08:56 AM
I never told my father about the sexual abuse from my uncle. Many young girls don't tell their fathers for a few major reasons.
SHAME is one main reason. The abusers make you feel ashamed and many even tell you that your father will think you are dirty and worthless.
Also, I was afraid that my father would kill mu uncle and no longer be around for me. I barely got to see my Dad enough after the divorce, and I worried that if he hurt my uncle, I would never see him again.

I think there are many reasons victims don't tell. Will they be believed? Who will it hurt? Will it rip the family apart? Threats, shame, all of the above. If she did tell someone, I think it's extremely negligent that nothing was done about it.

TxLady2
02-05-2011, 08:58 AM
I share your frustration, completely. I have a feeling CPS may have been called and investigated. I won't be one bit surprised if more than one report surfaces. IMO, based on everything we've heard and seen thus far, Billie's version of the truth does not match reality. I think she would really manipulate the situation with a case worker and go after the person who called in the complaint (she could probably figure it out) or take it out on Hailey. Heck, her daughter was missing for 3 weeks and she was already talking libel and slander by the media and the public. Extremely self-centered individual who takes no accountability for the clear and present danger she brought into her children's lives.

One of the hardest things about CPS investigations is the child often does not tell the case worker what they told others or what others have seen. Sometimes it's hard to prove neglect or abuse or endangerment - especially with people who can put on an act. Hailey may have been very unhappy, for very good reason, at home. Yet, if she couldn't be with Clint, she probably at least wanted to stay as close to him as as possible (and maybe feared being moved somewhere she didn't know or was too far from Dad). Or, she may have just been afraid of what her mom and/or SA would do if she was honest with a CPS investigator. I just get the feeling CPS was engaged at some point(s)...

I agree with you and also wanted to make a comment on the part that is bolded.
In my stepdaughter's case, the allegations did not have to be proven. CPS took her word for it and gave her mother a choice... she could move the stepdad out or send her to live with her dad. They lived in another state. She chose to send her down here, and her dad was given custody very quickly after the court hearing.
I don't know if it's the difference in state laws or just the CPS agency or even the difference in social workers but it was never a matter of whether to believe her or not... they just removed her from the home. Maybe it's because her mom did not fight it. She did sign papers acknowledging that she didn't protect her and basically giving up her rights.

SoSueMe
02-05-2011, 09:09 AM
Frankly, I find it incredible that CD and Naomi weren't positive of the last time they saw Hailey. When someone goes missing, wouldn't the very first thing you think of be, when did I see her last? Why the confusion? Why did N tell BD she saw her on the 27th and then change her mind? Did N not see the missing posters? Why didn't she clarify that HD had removed her red earrings? Was her son with her on the 27th? These are rhetorical questions, I'm not trying to sleuth Naomi. I'm just wondering why all the confusion?

Most didn't believe that N had told BD that she had seen HD on the 27th until she confirmed it during the recent interview. Everyone assumed it was a "lie" but now we know differently.

TxLady2
02-05-2011, 09:27 AM
And the key word to all that is "placed".

DD was "placed" with his uncle. Even BD said on NG that she decided to "place" him there. The article linked above used the word "placement".

DD was "placed" with relatives pending the outcome of this investigation. You can bet a judge was involved and paperwork was signed. That's what they do when they "place" a child.

I think CPS can place a child in temporary custody without having to go before a judge, especially if the parent is in agreement. I do recall Billie saying there was no court hearing. If I am not mistaken, the CPS worker can meet with the judge, explain the situation and he/she can sign the papers for temporary placement. No hearing required. I could be wrong, but I think that is what happened here.

BeanE
02-05-2011, 09:38 AM
I think it was this from Nancy Grace on the 17th

To Clint Dunn, this is Hailey`s father, Hailey`s father, I know you have been out physically searching for your little girl. What do you make of your mother`s fear that she was attacked by the boyfriend? I don`t want to focus just on the boyfriend, all right, because it could be somebody else. I don`t want to have tunnel vision on him. But she told us, here on the show, that your daughter feared him, that he would come and stand at her door at night.

C. DUNN: Yeah, you know, that kind of scared me, but I really didn`t want to hear it. Like your expert said the other day, it`s her emotions and she`s seen the worst things that can happen out of this. http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1101/17/ng.01.html

IMO, I think he doesn't want to hear it now, from his Mom, not that HD told him about it and he didn't want to hear it then, but I could be wrong.

bbm. It's clear to me that Clint was referring to grandma's statements that she thought what's happened to Hailey is that Shawn has attacked her, and that he doesn't want to hear that, because he can't bring himself to think about his little girl being viciously attacked by the Shawn we see in Shawn's horror pics and videos of himself.

I would not be able to think about it either, nor would I want people talking to me about it. I just could not bear it. I would keep hoping my child was alive, and that I could find him, and that I would be able to once more hold him, and calm his fears, and heal his wounds.

My opinion.

BeanE
02-05-2011, 09:40 AM
On the 911 call she said SA threatened her and CD,but didn't say on the call he threatened Hailey.SA admitted it in interviews,so it had to be on the officers written up report on the call.

Or they interviewed the responding officers, and asked if Shawn had mentioned Hailey at all, and what he'd said, and they recalled he threatened her.

my_tee_mouse
02-05-2011, 09:52 AM
Or they interviewed the responding officers, and asked if Shawn had mentioned Hailey at all, and what he'd said, and they recalled he threatened her.
Isn't it just a bit odd that we have the suspect admitting things like having friends over for "a few drinks" and threatening Hailey, yet Hailey's mother denies these things? Would we not expect it to be the other way around?

TxLady2
02-05-2011, 10:03 AM
In all honesty the articles where it said shes not a person of interest is open to interpretation. I personally think she will be charged with something in the future and if shes not..then she should have been the way she is trying to make sure her own daughter doesnt get justice :(

MOO

If a person is not a POI, then I take that to mean they are also not a suspect. From where I sit, I don't think they consider Billie anything other than a disillusioned mother who can't accept that the guy she loves may have harmed her daughter.
AFAIK, it's not a crime to love someone, and I personally think that's all that Billie is guilty of... refusing to accept that Shawn did anything to Hailey.
Now... if she KNOWS he did, that's one thing. She could be charged with obstruction of justice in that case. But I firmly believe she does not know what happened and does not believe he is guilty. That's hard for us to accept, but it's not all that uncommon.
IMO, it's not a matter of not wanting Hailey to have justice. It's simply a matter of not wanting to have to face the fact that she is wrong about Shawn. If he IS guilty, then she is going to be hit with a double whammy.... one, that her daughter is gone, and also that the man she loves and trusts is the one that killed her. That would be very hard to take, IMO.

BeanE
02-05-2011, 10:52 AM
Amster, I remember it also. It was a video - and I can't recall where it was posted, but I hope that helps you in your search...

I'm catching up, so this may already have been posted. There are two interviews with this friend.


http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=331936


http://www.ktxs.com/news/26370613/detail.html

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 11:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oslbUdJKRY0


Searching for Hailey

Hailey looks great in the Christmas photo IMO.

I can't imagine why BD didn't see to it that her son was included. I know I would have seen to it that he didn't miss out.

In the xmas photo, is the position of Hailey's legs locked together at the knees a physical indicator of sexual abuse?

belimom
02-05-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm catching up, so this may already have been posted. There are two interviews with this friend.


http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=331936


http://www.ktxs.com/news/26370613/detail.html

Yes, I've seen those - but there's another video with a different girl that I think Amster and I are referring to. Since we're not sleuthing minors, I don't want to give out details but she specifically spoke of Hailey not wanting to be alone with Shawn. I'm searched and searched and have seen "link" but the video is gone.

Anyone else remember this particular video?

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Thinking about the blog interview Monday night. Since CD had NS on with him how many think BD may have SA on with her since they are "friendly"?

curiousc
02-05-2011, 11:57 AM
Thinking about the blog interview Monday night. Since CD had NS on with him how many think BD may have SA on with her since they are "friendly"?

I honestly don't think that will happen. SA has been quiet and will probably stay quiet and out of the limelight. He has a lawyer and there is no doubt that he's been advised not to talk.

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 12:07 PM
I honestly don't think that will happen. SA has been quiet and will probably stay quiet and out of the limelight. He has a lawyer and there is no doubt that he's been advised not to talk.

True. Thats why Im surprised he is still talking to BD. Im surprised if his lawyer told him he could.

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 12:09 PM
Does anyone know where I can find where BD said Shawn told her he wanted to quit his job and she didn't want him to. TIA

crimejunkie
02-05-2011, 12:10 PM
Does anyone know where I can find where BD said Shawn told her he wanted to quit his job and she didn't want him to. TIA

It was in BD's press conference.

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 12:15 PM
True. Thats why Im surprised he is still talking to BD. Im surprised if his lawyer told him he could.

Taking the leap where we end up in a murder trial without a body, I am not one hundred percent sure I see the downside for SA to remain buddy buddy if not a full fledge couple with Billie if she will have it.

As far as reasonable doubt goes it might be worth some major points with the jury if mom is standing by his side, maintaining that HD was seen hours after SA saw her leave the house, and providing the counter testimony to all the people that will say HD was afraid of SA.

Going with the idea that the state is usrually pretty sure of themselves when they go to trial on a murder charge I not sure what other roll of the dice defense would have to work with.

No way in the world we see in showing up for press interviews with her though.

BeanE
02-05-2011, 12:17 PM
I think CPS can place a child in temporary custody without having to go before a judge, especially if the parent is in agreement. I do recall Billie saying there was no court hearing. If I am not mistaken, the CPS worker can meet with the judge, explain the situation and he/she can sign the papers for temporary placement. No hearing required. I could be wrong, but I think that is what happened here.

I'm unable to find where Billie said there was no court hearing. May I have a link please? I'd like to add it to my resources.

TIA

Ellebelle
02-05-2011, 12:17 PM
What you should be more surprised about is that none of these people told LE about this early on, and some of them must surely have been interviewed. We know this because if they had, those allegations would have been included in the search warrant affidavits as contributing to probable cause, and they weren't.

That suggests that these allegations came up much later, after SA came under the public spotlight, which makes them suspect. Especially since they appear to mostly come from CDs side of the family, who would have no reason to like SA in the first place.

If you know something, and are willing to go on national TV to say it because you feel so strongly about it, why wouldn't you do it to LE right up front at the beginning of the investigation?
That's not necessarily true. We don't know everything told to LE by everyone.

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 12:24 PM
Just because of the Alicia Debolt case, does anyone know if and how TX recognizes common law marriage? Could this be a witness issue should BD and SA claim it....if it turns out he is charged? TIA

Quiche
02-05-2011, 12:25 PM
There wasn't any coverage of the balloon release? :waitasec:

Quiche
02-05-2011, 12:26 PM
Just because of the Alicia Debolt case, does anyone know if and how TX recognizes common law marriage? Could this be a witness issue should BD and SA claim it....if it turns out he is charged? TIA

Can you be common law when you're still legally married to someone else?

eta: Wow, there's a lot more to a common law marriage than I thought!

http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html

crimejunkie
02-05-2011, 12:26 PM
I think CPS can place a child in temporary custody without having to go before a judge, especially if the parent is in agreement. I do recall Billie saying there was no court hearing. If I am not mistaken, the CPS worker can meet with the judge, explain the situation and he/she can sign the papers for temporary placement. No hearing required. I could be wrong, but I think that is what happened here.

No, you are right. CPS can do what in my state is called an "Informal Adjustment." This is an agreement between the parent and CPS that they agree to do certain services (counseling, drug treatment, parenting class--stuff like that) and if they successfully complete the agreement, the case will never go before a judge. In these agreements, the parents retain custody of the child, but on an agreement that they will comply with CPS' recommendations. Sometimes the agreement has the child living in the home with the family while services are complete or they could all agree that the child should live elsewhere during the time of services. IF they do not successfully complete the services or comply with the agreement, then CPS will bump it up to a Child In Need of Services case (where they will request that the Juvenile Court will take custody of the child) and it will go before a judge. IF the judge agrees, the child then becomes in the custody of the state, (a "foster" child) and CPS (and the court) makes all the decision for the child while they try to reunify the family.

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 12:29 PM
Can you be common law when you're still legally married to someone else?

Nope....never mind. doh....:waitasec:

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 12:30 PM
I really wonder about why DD was taking into CPS. Once again I will refer to the previously talked about case of TS. Her 11 year old brother remained at home with his mom and her bf thru all of this. Many took LDT and LE would not comment on the results, but TS's mom insisted that they passed. Maybe the laws are different here in Canada.

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/619277

Canada abolished the death penalty so TS's killers never faced the death penalty but if someone murdered Hailey, they could be executed since Texas is a death penalty state.

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 12:45 PM
Just because of the Alicia Debolt case, does anyone know if and how TX recognizes common law marriage? Could this be a witness issue should BD and SA claim it....if it turns out he is charged? TIA

As already mentioned up thread Billie is married to Clint, but even if she wasn't spousal privilege does not cover crimes against children of either spouse. If the victim is a the minor child of either spouse testimony can be compelled.

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 12:46 PM
In BD's press conference outside her residence, someone noted the two front doors so it is a Duplex which Clint & Billie own? BD said a window was broken to her dwelling.

I assuming the other half of the duplex was unoccupied and if so someone could have been in there without anyone's knowledge.

I could be wrong, but wasn't the door that was broken going to HD's bedroom? Didn't it have red curtains on the window of that room...both from the outside during a video and also from a video when showing HD's room. (with red curtains)???

It could have been a duplex when it was purchased and then converted back to a single residence on the inside only and not fixing the exterior.

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 12:48 PM
As already mentioned up thread Billie is married to Clint, but even if she wasn't spousal privilege does not cover crimes against children of either spouse. If the victim is a the minor child of either spouse testimony can be compelled.

TY. I was not aware of that...but makes sense.

Quiche
02-05-2011, 12:50 PM
I could be wrong, but wasn't the door that was broken going to HD's bedroom? Didn't it have red curtains on the window of that room...both from the outside during a video and also from a video when showing HD's room. (with red curtains)???

It could have been a duplex when it was purchased and then converted back to a single residence on the inside only and not fixing the exterior.

Hmmm, so that's why Hailey's bedroom is the size of a living room! mo

peeples
02-05-2011, 12:57 PM
CZ or red cat stated the second door has a chest freezer in front of it and is therefore not used.
This was stated in the last few days.

yllek
02-05-2011, 12:59 PM
Well, Monday's Bring Them Home radio interview with Billie should be interesting in light of recently released statements by family members. I trust the hosts again won't let it turn it to a bashing of other family members or SA. I really wonder what will be discussed and I am one that believes that Billie will have someone do it with her, but don't think it will be SA (not if he wishes to retain current counsel, imo). I'm thinking a dear friend.

belimom
02-05-2011, 01:01 PM
Didn't one of Hailey's friends also say Hailey was afraid of SA? I think she was interviewed....I'll look for the link. Not MB, another little girl.


Yes, I've seen those - but there's another video with a different girl that I think Amster and I are referring to. Since we're not sleuthing minors, I don't want to give out details but she specifically spoke of Hailey not wanting to be alone with Shawn. I'm searched and searched and have seen "link" but the video is gone.

Anyone else remember this particular video?

Okay - I've searched all morning and the video has gone 'poof!'.

Here are some references to it here on WS by Amysmom:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5


And here is the link where it originally was:


http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=13779246

I know it doesn't matter in the scheme of things but it's been bugging me, since I recall the video vividly... :banghead:

Anyway, RL is taking over for me today -- my husband and kids will throw me out if I don't join in the big Saturday cleanup here at our house. But I hope, as I do everyday, that today will bring a big break in this case.

Chili Fries
02-05-2011, 01:01 PM
Yes, I've seen those - but there's another video with a different girl that I think Amster and I are referring to. Since we're not sleuthing minors, I don't want to give out details but she specifically spoke of Hailey not wanting to be alone with Shawn. I'm searched and searched and have seen "link" but the video is gone.

Anyone else remember this particular video?

Are you talking about the African-American neighbor girl? She did also say Hailey was afraid of Shawn. That's the same video where the adult male neighbor said he often saw Hailey in the backyard. Unfortunately, KCBD doesn't keep their older videos available. Maybe there's an article quoting the video somewhere.

peeples
02-05-2011, 01:02 PM
I'm with ya belimom, I gotta get the house superbowl party ready... Have a great day!

Kimster
02-05-2011, 01:03 PM
Ever since DD went to live with his uncle, I've seen posts that suggest perhaps DCPS doesn't allow kids to stay in the midst of a crime. That just didn't jive with me. So, I dug up a website about it and put this information in our new Resource Center. It's very interesting. Here's the link: TX When can CPS take a child? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

belimom
02-05-2011, 01:04 PM
Are you talking about the African-American neighbor girl? She did also say Hailey was afraid of Shawn. That's the same video where the adult male neighbor said he often saw Hailey in the backyard. Unfortunately, KCBD doesn't keep their older videos available. Maybe there's an article quoting the video somewhere.

Yep, that's her. She said that Hailey would ask if she could stay longer with the friend b/c she was uncomfortable being alone with SA when no one else was home.

BeanE
02-05-2011, 01:04 PM
Okay - I've searched all morning and the video has gone 'poof!'.

Here are some references to it here on WS by Amysmom:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5974456&postcount=257)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5974483&postcount=266)


And here is the link where it originally was:


http://www.kcbd.com/Global/story.asp?S=13779246

I know it doesn't matter in the scheme of things but it's been bugging me, since I recall the video vividly... :banghead:

Anyway, RL is taking over for me today -- my husband and kids will throw me out if I don't join in the big Saturday cleanup here at our house. But I hope, as I do everyday, that today will bring a big break in this case.

Oh those videos on KCBD are a pain to find, but they are there. I was able to find another one after hours of applying Google-fu to the site. Let me see if I can remember how I got to it. God I wish I would write stuff like that down lmao.

gypsyblue
02-05-2011, 01:06 PM
lets see...

shawn .... "Has anybody ever went ape* and created a real life Halloween???? I mean went as far as throwing on the mask, coveralls and just massacred some ppl???"


billie.... "shawn went to work on December 27 at 6am to quit his job..cleaned out his locker..turn in his coveralls..and left around 6:30am"

coincidence?

nah...

kiss....

jmo

Quiche
02-05-2011, 01:10 PM
lets see...

shawn .... "Has anybody ever went apeshit and created a real life Halloween???? I mean went as far as throwing on the mask, coveralls and just massacred some ppl???"


billie.... "shawn went to work on December 27 at 6am to quit his job..cleaned out his locker..turn in his coveralls..and left around 6:30am"

coincidence?

nah...

kiss....

jmo


Of course he'd be in a job that required coveralls-- I hope LE has every pair he owned.

SNOWINMEMPHIS
02-05-2011, 01:15 PM
Well thank God the snow missed us this time!
Stay warm out there, especially all you WSers that got slammed!
I will continue praying that Hailey is found safe and will not give up on her being alive until it is proven otherwise!!
Peace:)

gypsyblue
02-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Of course he'd be in a job that required coveralls-- I hope LE has every pair he owned.the fact that billie does not find this frightening and suspicious... is even scarier then the connection itself... imo

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 01:18 PM
CZ or red cat stated the second door has a chest freezer in front of it and is therefore not used.
This was stated in the last few days.

So DD must have crawled in thru that window onto the chest freezer. ??

Kimster
02-05-2011, 01:18 PM
That post also says:


I thought we were supposed to be victim-friendly, and BD seems like a victim to me.

We can discuss what she's said in interviews and the MSM. There is no way of stopping it.

Now, if members want to bash her, call her names, come up with ways she harmed Hailey, gossip about what "might" be, etc., then that's a problem.

peeples
02-05-2011, 01:21 PM
So DD must have crawled in thru that window onto the chest freezer. ??

I do not know, I was just repeating what was posted. I believe it was red cat NOT cz and it was talked about a day or 2 after BD's press conference.
I tried ti figure out how to pull up redcats last 20 or so posts and I can't figure out how to do it. Otherwise I'd give a link....

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 01:23 PM
The sheers are 'BRIGHT PINK"......now that we know the house used to be a duplex, is reason for such a large bedroom.
I wish someone with archetectural gift could draw up a floor plan so we could see how close all the bedrooms were in relation to the livingroom in which Hailey always slept.
Haileys bedroom is in the BACK near the carport in photos that I have seen.

I thought the bright sheers were in the front. I'll see if I can find a pic or the videos.

Must be two doors in the back too. Little hard to tell from the satellite views and "driving" on 18th St., but there is one on the other side of the house....far from the carport. Looks like there is...but hard to see.

1804 chestnut st, colorado city, tx - Google Maps

tehcloser
02-05-2011, 01:23 PM
So.........I've been MIA for 2 days due to weather and connection coming and going. Anything important I missed???????????? TIA.

passionflower
02-05-2011, 01:24 PM
lets see...

shawn .... "Has anybody ever went apeshit and created a real life Halloween???? I mean went as far as throwing on the mask, coveralls and just massacred some ppl???"


billie.... "shawn went to work on December 27 at 6am to quit his job..cleaned out his locker..turn in his coveralls..and left around 6:30am"

coincidence?

nah...

kiss....

jmo
Anyone who ever watched "halloween".........where does it take place?
In a house? outside? anywhere it reminds locals or someone around CCity? Scurry?

SoSueMe
02-05-2011, 01:28 PM
If a person is not a POI, then I take that to mean they are also not a suspect. From where I sit, I don't think they consider Billie anything other than a disillusioned mother who can't accept that the guy she loves may have harmed her daughter.
AFAIK, it's not a crime to love someone, and I personally think that's all that Billie is guilty of... refusing to accept that Shawn did anything to Hailey.
Now... if she KNOWS he did, that's one thing. She could be charged with obstruction of justice in that case. But I firmly believe she does not know what happened and does not believe he is guilty. That's hard for us to accept, but it's not all that uncommon.
IMO, it's not a matter of not wanting Hailey to have justice. It's simply a matter of not wanting to have to face the fact that she is wrong about Shawn. If he IS guilty, then she is going to be hit with a double whammy.... one, that her daughter is gone, and also that the man she loves and trusts is the one that killed her. That would be very hard to take, IMO.

TXLady, I think this is exactly what is going on with BD.

lynnb
02-05-2011, 01:35 PM
So.........I've been MIA for 2 days due to weather and connection coming and going. Anything important I missed???????????? TIA.

I was getting worried about you :D

Billie will be doing an interview on Bring them Home on Monday 2/7 at 7pm.

yllek
02-05-2011, 01:35 PM
So.........I've been MIA for 2 days due to weather and connection coming and going. Anything important I missed???????????? TIA.

Glad you're back in action! :great:


Here are the important things that I can think of:

-Searches continue today; weather should be cold but okay.

-A balloon release was held in Hailey's honor yesterday in CC.

-Hailey's aunt, T. Gaddis, was featured in Okay magazine yesterday stating that Hailey called her crying in the day (or days) before her disappearance because she hated SA. (No links or direct quotes allowed)

-Billie will be on the Bring Them Home radio blog show on Monday, 2/7.

.not allowed to discuss sites that aren't allow on WS (Kimster snip)

-Update: Cow Patties have still not gone on sale at the Mall of Abilene.

Quiche
02-05-2011, 01:36 PM
So.........I've been MIA for 2 days due to weather and connection coming and going. Anything important I missed???????????? TIA.

Billie is doing the same show on blogtalk that Clint did-- Monday evening. Should be worthwhile, lol.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bringthemhomenow/2011/02/08/exclusive-live--billie-dunn-speaks

tehcloser
02-05-2011, 01:36 PM
I was getting worried about you :D

Billie will be doing an interview on Bring them Home on Monday 2/7 at 7pm.

lol, Cable guy is out on pole now, I told him he had to stay there until the snow melts..........:floorlaugh:

Thanks Everyone for updates!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kimster
02-05-2011, 01:39 PM
Okay guys. There was an interview from CD done on a site that isn't allowed on WS. PLEASE stop posting about it here. I have to go to work today and if you guys don't drive the mods crazy with it during the day, I'll open and moderate a thread in the PL about it when I get home this evening. Does that sound like a deal? This isn't usually allowed, but I know you guys want to talk about it.

I'll open the link up for a few hours tonight so you guys can brainstorm. But if everyone drives the mods crazy about it today while I'm gone, I'm not going to do it cuz they'll put me on a TO. :floorlaugh:

If you want to do this, please thank this post.

ETA: In the meantime, remember we have a chat room and I think Chico will allow discussion about the interview there during the day too.

ETA#2: If someone comes on during the day and posts about the site, bump this post for them so they can delete their post right away. I'll see you guys tonight! Don't blow it! :kimsterwink:

yllek
02-05-2011, 01:41 PM
Kimster -

Thanks for the snip. Wasn't aware that the name of the show couldn't be stated. Got it now!!!!!!!!:cool:

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 01:41 PM
I do not know, I was just repeating what was posted. I believe it was red cat NOT cz and it was talked about a day or 2 after BD's press conference.
I tried ti figure out how to pull up redcats last 20 or so posts and I can't figure out how to do it. Otherwise I'd give a link....


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/search.php?searchid=3858584

CONNIEHU
02-05-2011, 01:42 PM
Just because of the Alicia Debolt case, does anyone know if and how TX recognizes common law marriage? Could this be a witness issue should BD and SA claim it....if it turns out he is charged? TIA

I thought she was still married to CD no divorce that can be found yet

passionflower
02-05-2011, 01:42 PM
I thought the bright sheers were in the front. I'll see if I can find a pic or the videos.

Must be two doors in the back too. Little hard to tell from the satellite views and "driving" on 18th St., but there is one on the other side of the house....far from the carport. Looks like there is...but hard to see.

1804 chestnut st, colorado city, tx - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&q=1804+chestnut+st,+colorado+city,+tx&hq=&hnear=1804+Chestnut+St,+Colorado+City,+Mitchell,+T exas+79512&ll=32.404549,-100.862904&spn=0,0.021865&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=32.404576,-100.862781&panoid=2xZS-ThD_wFjC3oqL-xpXw&cbp=12,298.45,,1,6.88)

IIRC, crankypants had really good recent pics of the house.........
now I need to find them .......maybe we can draw an approx. floorplan
from what we have seen in videos and now we know a chest freezer is in front of back door.

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 01:45 PM
It was in BD's press conference.

Thank you crimejunkie.

Snip

Monday morning, Shawn quit his job. He didnít tell me about this until Wednesday the 29th. I know that Shawn had been thinking about quitting, but he knew Iíd be mad if he did. He told me that he went into work Monday, turning in his coveralls, and to clean out his locker.

Then he went to his grandmotherís house in Dunn, but they didnít answer the door, so he came down to I-20. He didnít come into C. City, just to I-20, and went to Big Spring.

There are some people who are going around demanding or begging for money. I am disgusted that these individuals who never held down jobs are exploiting Hailey to get a handout. Iíve always worked and supported my kids by myself, and I will return to work as soon as I am able.

http://casesignal.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/hailey-dunn-billie-jean-dunn-press-conference-january-31-transcription-1/

peeples
02-05-2011, 01:45 PM
Thanks to impatient redhead the post I'm talking about was found!!!

Here it is

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Hailey Dunn, 13, Colorado City, 27 Dec 2010 - #52

peeples
02-05-2011, 01:53 PM
IIRC, crankypants had really good recent pics of the house.........
now I need to find them .......maybe we can draw an approx. floorplan
from what we have seen in videos and now we know a chest freezer is in front of back door.

Also when we were discussing DD seeing Shawn in the hallway with that "look", CZ posted and said BD's hallway is not what people typically think of a hallway being, it's like 4x4 or 5x5 square area that sits in the middle of the entrances to the bedrooms, bathroom and I believe the living room.

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 01:59 PM
I have a couple of questions.
Is LE telling these searchers where they want them looking?
Was BD and CD at the balloon release yesterday?

passionflower
02-05-2011, 02:10 PM
Also when we were discussing DD seeing Shawn in the hallway with that "look", CZ posted and said BD's hallway is not what people typically think of a hallway being, it's like 4x4 or 5x5 square area that sits in the middle of the entrances to the bedrooms, bathroom and I believe the living room.

Every bit of info helps..........I will ask my oldest grandson to help do his sims house building game tonight and see if we can figure a floorplan.
CZ can you tell us anything that would help??? TIA

hollyblue
02-05-2011, 02:12 PM
IIRC, crankypants had really good recent pics of the house.........
now I need to find them .......maybe we can draw an approx. floorplan
from what we have seen in videos and now we know a chest freezer is in front of back door.

Wasn't the chest freezer blocking the front door with the broken out window?

nannymo
02-05-2011, 02:13 PM
Thank you crimejunkie.

Snip

Monday morning, Shawn quit his job. He didnít tell me about this until Wednesday the 29th. I know that Shawn had been thinking about quitting, but he knew Iíd be mad if he did. He told me that he went into work Monday, turning in his coveralls, and to clean out his locker.

Then he went to his grandmotherís house in Dunn, but they didnít answer the door, so he came down to I-20. He didnít come into C. City, just to I-20, and went to Big Spring.

There are some people who are going around demanding or begging for money. I am disgusted that these individuals who never held down jobs are exploiting Hailey to get a handout. Iíve always worked and supported my kids by myself, and I will return to work as soon as I am able.

http://casesignal.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/hailey-dunn-billie-jean-dunn-press-conference-january-31-transcription-1/

Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

Melanie
02-05-2011, 02:13 PM
My guess would be not until their investigation is over which I would also guess would coincide with LE's investigation on Hailey's case.

But again this is only my guess and is in no way fact.

Mel

LOL - sorry to get off topic, but I don't remember writing that. Then I looked at your nic. Seems we have 2 mel's on this page now :)

Mel

:great:

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 02:14 PM
I hope the searchers are successful today. I get concerned this will go like HC case and have to remind myself how long it took to find CA and she was so close to home.

lynnb
02-05-2011, 02:14 PM
oh no....it looks like teh's cable guy fell off the pole :eek:

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 02:16 PM
CZ or red cat stated the second door has a chest freezer in front of it and is therefore not used.
This was stated in the last few days.

If the two units were merged into one, it's possible someone was inside a vacant room and they surprised Hailey either inside or outside the house. MO

missy1974
02-05-2011, 02:19 PM
Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

That is a great point! I wonder if that is why he has come up with the 'I stopped at my grandmothers'. I think it is very possible that he pulled off of the highway to be sure not to cross paths. JMO of course

passionflower
02-05-2011, 02:19 PM
I googled "HALLOWEEN" movie
and under images.........look at 3rd picture of a young girl........
I see an old farm house, woods.........I cannot watch these films.....
nightmares

passionflower
02-05-2011, 02:21 PM
Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

great first post are you a local of TX area???

my_tee_mouse
02-05-2011, 02:23 PM
So.........I've been MIA for 2 days due to weather and connection coming and going. Anything important I missed???????????? TIA.
Yes! We drank all the hot chocolate and ate all the Girl Scout cookies.:great:

And still no Hailey.:anguish:

passionflower
02-05-2011, 02:26 PM
If the two units were merged into one, it's possible someone was inside a vacant room and they surprised Hailey either inside or outside the house. MO

Was there such a room as in laundry room etc?
We know house had a crawl space. (blocked up)
Attic space???
A floor plan would help.

TXHOPE
02-05-2011, 02:30 PM
:wagon: nannymo!!!

Kimster
02-05-2011, 02:31 PM
Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

:wagon:

nannymo
02-05-2011, 02:38 PM
I am not a local of CC, not a family member and I do not know anyone connected to this case. Just an interested person wanting to help find this beautiful little girl

BeanE
02-05-2011, 02:41 PM
Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

Great post! Welcome, nanny.

katydid23
02-05-2011, 02:58 PM
If the two units were merged into one, it's possible someone was inside a vacant room and they surprised Hailey either inside or outside the house. MO

It's possible, but WHY would SA say she left the house at 3:15 then?

The only way she could have been attacked in the home is if SA were involved. IMO

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 03:02 PM
Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

Yes imo because BD said her co-worker who picked her up on Monday dec 27was late.

Snip

On Monday, December 27, Shawn left the house at 5:30. My alarm was going off around the time he was telling me Ďbyeí. I got up and got ready for work. I usually leave the house by 6:20. When my ride didnít show up, I called her to see what was keeping her.

I peeked in at Hailey because Iím used to seeing her asleep on the couch. She wasnít there. I remembered Ďoh yeah, sheís in her roomí. I peeked in and it was dark, but her TV was on, and it definitely pacified me. I didnít touch her, but I seen my daughter and felt good.

I came in the living room to wait on my ride. I left the house around 6:30 and got to work about seven.

http://casesignal.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/hailey-dunn-billie-jean-dunn-press-conference-january-31-transcription-1/

peeples
02-05-2011, 03:03 PM
williefan we're not supposed to direct quote about that article we can paraphrase and discuss a bit.
It also might help to know the print version of the story and the online version are different.

TGIRecovered
02-05-2011, 03:08 PM
Yep, that's her. She said that Hailey would ask if she could stay longer with the friend b/c she was uncomfortable being alone with SA when no one else was home.

Link, please? TIA!

katydid23
02-05-2011, 03:12 PM
I have not seen anything that indicates Billie's home is an unsafe place for Children or anything that leads me to believe she is an unfit mother.
[snipped]
No drugs charges ,

AND
We have a enough for a timeline for a stranger abduction. Or Hailey running away.

snipped:

I would not go so far to say 'unfit' but I would say the home was 'unsafe.' We now have several accounts of friends and family who have stated that Hailey felt 'unsafe' around SA.

Look at the many pictures of him, where he proudly role plays as a serial killer, as a slasher who attacks young girls, and then try and tell me she had no reason to 'feel' some fear.

Hailey also knew about the drama surrounding the death threats that Shawn made against her parents and her uncle. [and maybe even against her, as Shawn admits to LE that he did threaten Hailey apparently]

She seemed intent upon staying with others as often as possible. She wanted to move out of that home.

Add to that,the fact that the house was rarely locked up, and the window on the door was broken, and Hailey was home alone quite often. "Unsafe imo.'

Also, BD did not keep track of where her child was. She said [through CZ] that she did not feel the need to check up on her that night because she 'trusted her.' I trust my kids too, but it is the general public I don't trust. I make my youngest call me when she arrives at her destination. When she is sleeping out, she has tyo call and 'check in' when the girls are getting ready for bed. It is common sense. 13 yr olds don't always use their own common sense so we need to look over their shoulders. BD did not seem to do much of that. So imo, it was an unsafe home.

peeples
02-05-2011, 03:13 PM
I am here..what were you wanting to ask?

It was about their being a chest freezer ice chest in front of that second door :)
With the help of another poster though I found your post :)

katydid23
02-05-2011, 03:16 PM
MSM link please?

That first quote was straight out of Shawns own mind, and posted by him on the Micheal Meyers site.

The second was from BD's Press conference on Jan 31st.

Quiche
02-05-2011, 03:18 PM
Imo, the last credible sighting of Hailey was in the home, with Billie and Shawn.

redcat
02-05-2011, 03:21 PM
In all honesty the articles where it said shes not a person of interest is open to interpretation. I personally think she will be charged with something in the future and if shes not..then she should have been the way she is trying to make sure her own daughter doesnt get justice :(

MOO

BBM

http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=336996

Colorado City Manager Pete Kampfer confirmed Monday Billie Dunn has been ruled out as a person of interest in her daughter's disappearance.

This seems pretty clear and straightforward to me.

Texas Mist
02-05-2011, 03:24 PM
Reminder - there's a thread in the PL for discussing what's on Facebook


Hailey Dunn Facebook/You Tube/MM site

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125252&page=46

Crosby87
02-05-2011, 03:26 PM
Was there such a room as in laundry room etc?
We know house had a crawl space. (blocked up)Attic space???
A floor plan would help.

I hope so. The house probably has empty rooms, closests and cupboards; plenty of places to hide and observe.

NG's toured inside HaLeigh Cummings home but not in this case.

redcat
02-05-2011, 03:27 PM
OT-This is how paranoid I have become....dropped my son off at a friend's to play earlier this morning, came back to the house and noticed a white van parked off the road on our property. I slowed down, got the name on the side of the truck..guy was around back and just gave me a weird feeling. Came home, got out the camera and zoom lens and took a picture. It's a frozen food delivery van, (Not Schwan's) but I have never seen it before in this town. I also called the SO and they probably think I'm looney, but this town will NEVER be the same because of Hailey.

CONNIEHU
02-05-2011, 03:32 PM
It was about their being a chest freezer ice chest in front of that second door :)
With the help of another poster though I found your post :)

I assume that LE checked inside the chestfreezer? We still havent got anything creditable that she left the house...maybe hidden in plain sight?

Quiche
02-05-2011, 03:34 PM
I just can't shake my concerns about a mother of a missing child who remains openly "friendly" with the sole suspect. It stinks to high heaven, imo. :mad:

katydid23
02-05-2011, 03:35 PM
Dreamweaver,

I agree that the sentence structure sounds a bit formal. But I can easily see her saying to her Aunt, " He makes me uncomfortable." Hailey was an intelligent kid, a good student.
I think she used the word uncomfortable because I think that perfectly described how he made her feel. Especially if he was coming on to her and messing with her.

WillenFan21
02-05-2011, 03:35 PM
About Billie being friendly with Shawn... Maybe she is doing that in hopes of him admitting what he did with Hailey? Sort of like a gain my trust so to speak and lying to him.

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 03:37 PM
I'm going to make this abundantly clear. This back and forth about the rules and telling one another what they can post is against our TOS and will not be tolerated.

Telling other posters that their process of sleuthing is not the right way is not going to cut it.

There are lots of other forums that might fit your "bill" for what should and shouldn't be allowed, Don't try that here.

The moderators here decide what is TOS, what is proper etiquette and what is allowed and not allowed.

KNOCK IT OFF. NO ONE HERE HAS A RIGHT TO TELL OTHER POSTERS THEY ARE NOT GETTING IT RIGHT

Quiche
02-05-2011, 03:38 PM
Dreamweaver,

I agree that the sentence structure sounds a bit formal. But I can easily see her saying to her Aunt, " He makes me uncomfortable." Hailey was an intelligent kid, a good student.
I think she used the word uncomfortable because I think that perfectly described how he made her feel. Especially if he was coming on to her and messing with her.

The word, uncomfortable, is commonly used as a warning sign in teaching children about inappropriate touch etc.-- it's probably very commonly used to relate fears. mo

http://www.mcgruff.org/Advice/stranger_danger.php

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 03:39 PM
Red can you tell me how these searches are being organized? Is the leaders of the group deciding where the search area will be or is LE guiding them to places they feel should be checked?

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 03:39 PM
Thread closed for Clean up.

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 04:11 PM
If you have a problem use your alert button. It doesn't mean that moderators will agree. But this fighting is not going to be tolerated. If we see a TOS we will deal with it.

Quiche
02-05-2011, 04:24 PM
They are supposed to be searching today-- but, I'm not sure we're going to hear about it. Seems to me MSM has backed off considerably since BD's press conference. mo

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/31/mother-missing-colorado-city-teen-provides-copy-ti/

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 04:27 PM
Officials have said there are no new developments in the search for Hailey Dunn while volunteers gathered Saturday morning to renew search efforts.
Colorado City city manager Pete Kampfer said he had no comment about the Billie Dunn press conference last week other than ďshe is trying to do what she thinks is best to find Hailey Iím sure.Ē

Kampfer said that investigators have continued working on the case, but have had to fight the cold over the last several days.

Results from several pieces of possible evidence are still not available, he said.
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=338856

Velouria
02-05-2011, 04:31 PM
BBM

http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=336996

Colorado City Manager Pete Kampfer confirmed Monday Billie Dunn has been ruled out as a person of interest in her daughter's disappearance.

This seems pretty clear and straightforward to me.

But you'll notice, that is not a direct quote from Kampfer.

We also have this article:


He said at this time Law Enforcement may not want to name anyone else, because they don't want to tip off other persons of interest on their investigation.He added that Billie Dunn is not a person of interest in her daughter's case.

http://www.ktxs.com/news/26683573/detail.html

Being "ruled out" is not the same thing as "not a person of interest". We don't know what exactly what was said without a direct quote.

Quiche
02-05-2011, 04:32 PM
Officials have said there are no new developments in the search for Hailey Dunn while volunteers gathered Saturday morning to renew search efforts.
Colorado City city manager Pete Kampfer said he had no comment about the Billie Dunn press conference last week other than ďshe is trying to do what she thinks is best to find Hailey Iím sure.Ē

Kampfer said that investigators have continued working on the case, but have had to fight the cold over the last several days.

Results from several pieces of possible evidence are still not available, he said.
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=338856

Thank you! My search engine completely missed this. :waitasec:

OneLove
02-05-2011, 04:34 PM
I would not go so far to say 'unfit' but I would say the home was 'unsafe.' We now have several accounts of friends and family who have stated that Hailey felt 'unsafe' around SA.

Look at the many pictures of him, where he proudly role plays as a serial killer, as a slasher who attacks young girls, and then try and tell me she had no reason to 'feel' some fear.

Hailey also knew about the drama surrounding the death threats that Shawn made against her parents and her uncle. [and maybe even against her, as Shawn admits to LE that he did threaten Hailey apparently]

She seemed intent upon staying with others as often as possible. She wanted to move out of that home.

Add to that,the fact that the house was rarely locked up, and the window on the door was broken, and Hailey was home alone quite often. "Unsafe imo.'

Also, BD did not keep track of where her child was. She said [through CZ] that she did not feel the need to check up on her that night because she 'trusted her.' I trust my kids too, but it is the general public I don't trust. I make my youngest call me when she arrives at her destination. When she is sleeping out, she has tyo call and 'check in' when the girls are getting ready for bed. It is common sense. 13 yr olds don't always use their own common sense so we need to look over their shoulders. BD did not seem to do much of that. So imo, it was an unsafe home.

BBM

It would seem that any home deemed UNSAFE for reasons that are preventable would therefore also be UNFIT, or that whoever is responsible for maintaining the home environment in an UNSAFE condition is therefore UNFIT as a responsible parent.

I really hate saying that, as I do feel compassion for Billie in her situation. I feel pretty sure, no matter what the glitches were in her life/mothering, she never thought they would cause the death (or disappearance) of her child. It's too late now to go back and make different choices, which is terribly sad. I wonder, if she were asked, what she would do differently, if anything. THAT answer right there might tell us a great deal about what she 'knows' or strongly suspects without having to deal with it in a direct way.

Velouria
02-05-2011, 04:34 PM
About Billie being friendly with Shawn... Maybe she is doing that in hopes of him admitting what he did with Hailey? Sort of like a gain my trust so to speak and lying to him.

I'll admit, anything is possible.

But my gut tells me she never really stopped being "friendly" with SA.

JMO

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 04:42 PM
I guess with the weather it hinders the search but the bright side it will also help to preserve evidence too. Hopefully if she is out there someone finds her before the warmer weather sets in.

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 04:43 PM
Okay guys. There was an interview from CD done on a site that isn't allowed on WS. PLEASE stop posting about it here. I have to go to work today and if you guys don't drive the mods crazy with it during the day, I'll open and moderate a thread in the PL about it when I get home this evening. Does that sound like a deal? This isn't usually allowed, but I know you guys want to talk about it.

I'll open the link up for a few hours tonight so you guys can brainstorm. But if everyone drives the mods crazy about it today while I'm gone, I'm not going to do it cuz they'll put me on a TO. :floorlaugh:

If you want to do this, please thank this post.

ETA: In the meantime, remember we have a chat room and I think Chico will allow discussion about the interview there during the day too.

ETA#2: If someone comes on during the day and posts about the site, bump this post for them so they can delete their post right away. I'll see you guys tonight! Don't blow it! :kimsterwink:


Bump............ I'm still reading references.

OneLove
02-05-2011, 04:44 PM
I'll admit, anything is possible.

But my gut tells me she never really stopped being "friendly" with SA.

JMO

And I certainly do not KNOW this, but if I had to guess, I would guess that if Hailey told her certain things about Shawn's shady actions toward her if there were any, that Billie may have blamed Hailey rather than Shawn. (ETA: the intent of BD's comment about raging hormones?? Shawn's comments about HD's 'promiscuity without any disagreement from her mother??)

I knew a very responsible teacher at the college level whose husband plead GUILTY and served time for sexually abusing her grandchildren AND for secretly video taping her 16 year old daughter. She told me that she just couldn't blame him for his actions with her daughter because, "after all, the way she dressed and acted, she was just asking for it" ! ! ! :eek: :eek:

She visited him regularly in jail for over a year and made it clear he was coming home to live in "HER" home when he got out.

Clearly, her 16 year old daughter was NOT her first priority.

This case just kinda looks similar in ways, kwim?

redcat
02-05-2011, 04:44 PM
But you'll notice, that is not a direct quote from Kampfer.

We also have this article:



http://www.ktxs.com/news/26683573/detail.html

Being "ruled out" is not the same thing as "not a person of interest". We don't know what exactly what was said without a direct quote.


You don't want to believe BD has been ruled out, and that's your opinion. I am linking MSM articles that clearly state she has been ruled out according to PK, media liasion for the LE. Here is yet another article and quote from PK...

http://www.sweetwaterreporter.com/content/billie-dunn-holds-press-conference

Billie Dunn was considered a "person of interest" in the investigation, but has been ruled out, said Pete Kampfer, spokesperson for the investigation.

lynnb
02-05-2011, 04:45 PM
Officials have said there are no new developments in the search for Hailey Dunn while volunteers gathered Saturday morning to renew search efforts.
Colorado City city manager Pete Kampfer said he had no comment about the Billie Dunn press conference last week other than ďshe is trying to do what she thinks is best to find Hailey Iím sure.Ē

Kampfer said that investigators have continued working on the case, but have had to fight the cold over the last several days.

Results from several pieces of possible evidence are still not available, he said.
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=338856

also from the same link posted above

Search organizers have called a press conference for 11 a.m. Saturday in Colorado City to discuss their cause.

has anyone seen anything on this?

octobermoon
02-05-2011, 04:45 PM
Has there been anyone come out in the MSM who have vouched for where SA was on Monday (after 6:20 or so) til DD saw him and BD was picked up. Also what about all day on Tues. after he dropped off BD.

On Monday they stopped by BD's mom's home. But what about Tues.? No one has come forward to verify or say they were with him??? IYKWIM... HMMMMM
JMO and all that jazz

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 04:48 PM
also from the same link posted above

Search organizers have called a press conference for 11 a.m. Saturday in Colorado City to discuss their cause.

has anyone seen anything on this?

No. Cant find one on the balloon release either.

Sheik
02-05-2011, 04:49 PM
Pondering, can you please link the info that confirms that DD was removed by CPS? if I recall correctly, Kampfer issued a statement that he was mistaken when he said that they removed DD. I thought that Billie chose to send DD to live with her brother because of the hateful people cruising the house and throwing things or hurling insults. Has there been a different statement negating Kampfer's statment that he was mistaken?

TIA!

BBM
Well that's what BD said, there are no MSM reports confirming that people are/were actually driving by doing those things.

Just like anything else BD says, you have to take with a grain of salt, just so many darn inconsistencies.

tehcloser
02-05-2011, 04:51 PM
You don't want to believe BD has been ruled out, and that's your opinion. I am linking MSM articles that clearly state she has been ruled out according to PK, media liasion for the LE. Here is yet another article and quote from PK...

http://www.sweetwaterreporter.com/content/billie-dunn-holds-press-conference

Billie Dunn was considered a "person of interest" in the investigation, but has been ruled out, said Pete Kampfer, spokesperson for the investigation.

I think the difference is if you have followed many cases, LE will deny someone is a POI right up until they arrest them. There is one case on here right now that LE said the father was not a suspect saying he had been ruled out, they weren't able to charge him with anything involving his daughter, but he's setting in prison because they went after him another way.......Not saying that is going on here, just offering why some are not so quick to jump on PK's words.

Sheik
02-05-2011, 04:51 PM
ConcernedMother and ImpatientRedhead,

Is there new information about this? Last I heard, Kampfer told media that he was wrong about CPS and that they did not remove DD...Billie chose to send him to his uncle. Has this changed again?

BBM
Do you have a MSM link for this?

BD stated it was by her choice but as you and I both know, she is full of inconsistencies. Who knows what to believe, right?

OneLove
02-05-2011, 04:52 PM
You don't want to believe BD has been ruled out, and that's your opinion. I am linking MSM articles that clearly state she has been ruled out according to PK, media liasion for the LE. Here is yet another article and quote from PK...

http://www.sweetwaterreporter.com/content/billie-dunn-holds-press-conference

Billie Dunn was considered a "person of interest" in the investigation, but has been ruled out, said Pete Kampfer, spokesperson for the investigation.

It is also worth keeping in mind that LE can, and often DO, say anything they need to say to further an investigation.

So interpretation of this is clearly open.

What people can SAY on Websleuths because of it is NOT.

katydid23
02-05-2011, 04:57 PM
And I certainly do not KNOW this, but if I had to guess, I would guess that if Hailey told her certain things about Shawn's shady actions toward her if there were any, that Billie may have blamed Hailey rather than Shawn.

I knew a very responsible teacher at the college level whose husband plead GUILTY and served time for sexually abusing her grandchildren AND for secretly video taping her 16 year old daughter. She told me that she just couldn't blame him for his actions with her daughter because, "after all, the way she dressed and acted, she was just asking for it" ! ! ! :eek: :eek:

She visited him regularly in jail for over a year and made it clear he was coming home to live in "HER" home when he got out.
Clearly, her 16 year old daughter was NOT her first priority.
This case just kinda looks similar in ways, kwim?

You could see shades of that in Billies explanation of Hailey's relationship with SA. [ paraphrasing here]

They got along fine, they joked around a lot, and she got to the point where she could ask him for 10 bucks, instead of asking me to ask him.

That is pretty close to verbatim, but I will go search for it to verify.

But my point is that RED FLAGS came up for me when I read that for two reasons. One was the 'joking around a lot.' I had read a few witnesses who said she hated SA and was afraid of him. So to me, the joking around sounded like what many abusers to do their victims. My uncle used to hold me down and tickle me really hard and for so long I would almost wet my pants. I would be in tears when he stopped. For him it was a power thing. He could grab me and hold me down, wrestle with me, IN FRONT OF MY FAMILY, and show me he was in control.
Also, the money thing really bothers me. She should NEVER have been reliant upon him for her 10 dollars of spending money. Why would bIllie even say that as her example. Was she expecting HER daughter to have to ask her 25 yr old boyfriend for lunch money?


From Jan 13 NG TRancript


TRANSCRIPT;
00:08:56 It took some time, but she got over it, and her and shawn were able to joke around with each other.
00:09:02 She was able to go and ask shawn for ten bucks instead of telling me to ask him.
00:09:11 Things have gotten much better.

redcat
02-05-2011, 04:58 PM
I think the difference is if you have followed many cases, LE will deny someone is a POI right up until they arrest them. There is one case on here right now that LE said the father was not a suspect saying he had been ruled out, they weren't able to charge him with anything involving his daughter, but he's setting in prison because they went after him another way.......Not saying that is going on here, just offering why some are not so quick to jump on PK's words.

I agree that this can change at any moment...and I have followed lots of cases right along with all of you. I can't predict who they are going to arrest, but I can go by what PK is saying right now and that is BD has been ruled out as a POI.

Dee10
02-05-2011, 05:00 PM
From Jan. 19th


[Pete Kampfer, city manager of Colorado City, confirmed the report and said the Texas Department of Protective and Family Services was involved in the placement of 16-year-old [DD] in another home.]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jan/19/missing-teens-brother-staying-with-relative/

Quiche
02-05-2011, 05:01 PM
You could see shades of that in Billies explanation of Hailey's relationship with SA. [ paraphrasing here]

They got along fine, they joked around a lot, and she got to the point where she could ask him for 10 bucks, instead of asking me to ask him.

That is pretty close to verbatim, but I will go search for it to verify.

But my point is that RED FLAGS came up for me when I read that for two reasons. One was the 'joking around a lot.' I had read a few witnesses who said she hated SA and was afraid of him. So to me, the joking around sounded like what many abusers to do their victims. My uncle used to hold me down and tickle me really hard and for so long I would almost wet my pants. I would be in tears when he stopped. For him it was a power thing. He could grab me and hold me down, wrestle with me, IN FRONT OF MY FAMILY, and show me he was in control.
Also, the money thing really bothers me. She should NEVER have been reliant upon him for her 10 dollars of spending money. Why would bIllie even say that as her example. Was she expecting HER daughter to have to ask her 25 yr old boyfriend for lunch money?

Yep, the ten dollar thing gives me the creeps, and makes me so sad for Hailey. How humiliating. jmo

redcat
02-05-2011, 05:01 PM
Wasn't the chest freezer blocking the front door with the broken out window?

Yes..there is an ice chest (medium size) in front of that front door.

concernedmother
02-05-2011, 05:04 PM
I found the link where PK said DD was in protective custody.http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/19/official-rumor-untrue-missing-colorado-city-teen-h/?print=1

Cant find a link saying he was wrong except WS and SM message boards. Maybe someone else knows where it is?

Dr.Fessel
02-05-2011, 05:05 PM
Okay guys. There was an interview from CD done on a site that isn't allowed on WS. PLEASE stop posting about it here. I have to go to work today and if you guys don't drive the mods crazy with it during the day, I'll open and moderate a thread in the PL about it when I get home this evening. Does that sound like a deal? This isn't usually allowed, but I know you guys want to talk about it.

I'll open the link up for a few hours tonight so you guys can brainstorm. But if everyone drives the mods crazy about it today while I'm gone, I'm not going to do it cuz they'll put me on a TO. :floorlaugh:

If you want to do this, please thank this post.

ETA: In the meantime, remember we have a chat room and I think Chico will allow discussion about the interview there during the day too.

ETA#2: If someone comes on during the day and posts about the site, bump this post for them so they can delete their post right away. I'll see you guys tonight! Don't blow it! :kimsterwink:

WoW, I am so out of the loop, where is the chat room?

octobermoon
02-05-2011, 05:07 PM
Yes..there is an ice chest (medium size) in front of that front door.

Hi Redcat,
Can you tell if the house was a duplex converted into a single home or is it still a duplex?
TIA

Sheik
02-05-2011, 05:08 PM
BBM

http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=336996

Colorado City Manager Pete Kampfer confirmed Monday Billie Dunn has been ruled out as a person of interest in her daughter's disappearance.

This seems pretty clear and straightforward to me.

And in the same report Kampfer also said...
"Kampfer said he will not comment on persons of interest other than Shawn Adkins as not to jeopardize the investigation."

Sounds kinda confusing or contradictory to me.

Dr.Fessel
02-05-2011, 05:10 PM
I found the link where PK said DD was in protective custody.http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jan/19/official-rumor-untrue-missing-colorado-city-teen-h/?print=1

Cant find a link saying he was wrong except WS and SM message boards. Maybe someone else knows where it is?
Staying with an uncle is not being in "protective custody".

Knox
02-05-2011, 05:13 PM
BBM

It would seem that any home deemed UNSAFE for reasons that are preventable would therefore also be UNFIT, or that whoever is responsible for maintaining the home environment in an UNSAFE condition is therefore UNFIT as a responsible parent.

I really hate saying that, as I do feel compassion for Billie in her situation. I feel pretty sure, no matter what the glitches were in her life/mothering, she never thought they would cause the death (or disappearance) of her child. It's too late now to go back and make different choices, which is terribly sad. I wonder, if she were asked, what she would do differently, if anything. THAT answer right there might tell us a great deal about what she 'knows' or strongly suspects without having to deal with it in a direct way.

She was asked ...


Beau Berman: Do you ever think back to December 27th and kind of retrace through your mind and just think "what if"?

Billie Jean Dunn: "Yeah, all the time. I wish I wouldn't have gone to work that day. I wish I would have called her that night".

Beau Berman: So many what ifs?

Billie Jean Dunn: Yeah. I just decided as long as I can believe Hailey's alive and can come home safe, I'm going to’ believe that".

http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=23579

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 05:14 PM
Dr. Chat room link.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

yllek
02-05-2011, 05:15 PM
Good afternoon-I'm new to this, but a different angle on the above info at the PC that BD gave.

SA left for work from CC at 5:30AM. He arrived at his employment at 6AM, quit his job and left at 6:10AM. He then went to his grandmother's house in Dunn. No one was home so he went to Big Spring via CC to get onto I-20. BD leaves for work at 6:30AM.

I think BD worked at Cogdell Memorial Hospital in Snyder. That would take her up the same 2 lane highway SA is coming back down at the same time she is going up it. I think she would have recognized her car coming at her that morning and saw SA coming home. They should have passed each other. Does anyone else find this odd that they have never mentioned they saw each other? This is a narrow 2 lane highway that is probably not heavily traveled at that time of the morning. JMOO

Welcome nannymo!

I just did a little map research on Google.

Billie leaves home at 6:30
She's on Hwy 208 from 6:32 to 6:55 (assuming they're doing the speed limit) and at her desk at Cogdell Memorial in Snyder by about 7 a.m.

Shawn leaves Weaver Pipeline Services in Snyder at 6:10
He's on Hwy 208 from about 6:15 to 6:35 p.m. when he gets back to CC city (assuming he's doing the speed limit)

Hwy 208 is the direct route for both of them. If both cars were doing the speed limit, they would have crossed paths when he was just getting off the 208 and Billie was getting on it. If he was driving much faster than the speed limit, I suppose he could have stopped at his grandma's in Dunn, knocked for a very short time, and gotten gotten off the 208 at around 6:30, just a minute or two before he would have passed Billie. But, he has to be near Billie's in CC from 6:35 to 6:56 per cell phone pings that hit off the same phone as Billie's house.

So, if he just exited the 208 onto the I-20 and drove straight through CC, what took him 21 minutes to get out of the CC cell tower range? I can't imagine he would be pinging off that same CC tower for 21 minutes headed down I-20 to Big Spring?. CC is a small city from what I understand, so it shouldn't be more than several minutes before he'd be out of that cell radius (I assume?). I think he had to have been doing something in CC for at least 10 minutes..

So, really, Billie's time line for SA on 12/27 a.m. is implausible to me when you consider the cell pings.

Note: I think tehcloser did something similar and more refined a few days ago when I was on and off the board. I'm gonna see if I can find her post for my own reference.

(my times are based on speed limits used for Google driving directions, so they're approximations only since we don't know how fast they were driving or if there was any traffic).

lynnb
02-05-2011, 05:21 PM
Welcome nannymo!

I just did a little map research on Google.

Billie leaves home at 6:30
She's on Hwy 208 from 6:32 to 6:55 (assuming they're doing the speed limit) and at her desk at Cogdell Memorial in Snyder by about 7 a.m.

Shawn leaves Weaver Pipeline Services in Snyder at 6:10
He's on Hwy 208 from about 6:15 to 6:35 p.m. when he gets back to CC city (assuming he's doing the speed limit)

Hwy 208 is the direct route for both of them. If both cars were doing the speed limit, they would have crossed paths when he was just getting off the 208 and Billie was getting on it. If he was driving much faster than the speed limit, I suppose he could have stopped at his grandma's in Dunn, knocked for a very short time, and gotten gotten off the 208 at around 6:30, just a minute or two before he would have passed Billie. But, he has to be near Billie's in CC from 6:35 to 6:56 per cell phone pings that hit off the same phone as Billie's house.

So, if he just exited the 208 onto the I-20 and drove straight through CC, what took him 21 minutes to get out of the CC cell tower range? I can't imagine he would be pinging off that same CC tower for 21 minutes headed down I-20 to Big Spring?. CC is a small city from what I understand, so it shouldn't be more than several minutes before he'd be out of that cell radius (I assume?). I think he had to have been doing something in CC for at least 10 minutes..

So, really, Billie's time line for SA on 12/27 a.m. is implausible to me when you consider the cell pings.

Note: I think tehcloser did something similar and more refined a few days ago when I was on and off the board. I'm gonna see if I can find her post for my own reference.

(my times are based on speed limits used for Google driving directions, so they're approximations only since we don't know how fast they were driving or if there was any traffic).

I think I just had a flashback to my SAT exams:great:

yllek
02-05-2011, 05:29 PM
I think I just had a flashback to my SAT exams:great:

You ain't kidding!!

Weird thing is, if SA didn't start pinging off CC tower until 6:35, he almost had to pass Billie on the 208 if she left at 6:30 and was at work on time.

IDK, too much number crunching for a Saturday.:crazy:

grandmaj
02-05-2011, 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by grandmaj
I'm seeing questions about sleuthing. Let me try to explain.
Persons named as a POI or Suspect are fully sleuthable.
Minors are never sleuthable. When copying a quote from MSM we even change minor's names to initials only.
Everyone else. You can discuss what they have said in media appearances, what the news has quoted them as saying, and their actions as reported in the news. We don't get into their personal lives, accuse them, discuss their background unless it is in MSM. Only discuss them so far as what MSM is reporting.

I hope this helps simplify sleuthing. I don't know too many people who don't have a skeleton or two in their closet. Just because they are related to, or somehow associated to a case like this, we can't destroy their reputation. Sometimes these associates or relatives move from this category to POI. Then the rules of sleuthing change.
If you have questions drop a Moderator a PM and then you will know you are on safe ground before posting.
Carry ON. Hailey.

:bump:

yllek
02-05-2011, 05:35 PM
Staying with an uncle is not being in "protective custody".

Dr. Fessel: You can't be in protective custody with a state-approved legal guardian providing said custody?

CONNIEHU
02-05-2011, 05:39 PM
You ain't kidding!!

Weird thing is, if SA didn't start pinging off CC tower until 6:35, he almost had to pass Billie on the 208 if she left at 6:30 and was at work on time.

IDK, too much number crunching for a Saturday.:crazy:

Unless he took a back road. He grew up in this area and is fully aware of all the backroads, dirtroads etc. He and his family liked to hunt, own land and know the area well. Sometimes backroads can get you to your destination faster than the main highways. Just sayin

tehcloser
02-05-2011, 05:43 PM
Unless he took a back road. He grew up in this area and is fully aware of all the backroads, dirtroads etc. He and his family liked to hunt, own land and know the area well. Sometimes backroads can get you to your destination faster than the main highways. Just sayin

Exactly, which is the main reason I don't see him coming back to C.City to go to B.Springs. If he was not going to stop at the house for anything he would have went another way. IMO.

CarolynV
02-05-2011, 05:53 PM
Swedie, I really liked your post, was having trouble snipping it, so here is my reply.

I do not know what happened to Hailey, but as for reporting her missing that's exactly what I think. I think BD had her son call Hailey home so she could "find out" she was missing and take the necessary measures, and then tried to get Clint to call the PD because she was jumping right on it, as a good mother would be expected too.

Nana46
02-05-2011, 05:53 PM
You ain't kidding!!

Weird thing is, if SA didn't start pinging off CC tower until 6:35, he almost had to pass Billie on the 208 if she left at 6:30 and was at work on time.

IDK, too much number crunching for a Saturday.:crazy:

OT alert..........funny....reminds me of logic problems that I used to hate but lately have begun to like....the one about a train going x amount of speed and another train going y amount of speed and what time will it arrive?
I used to joke about that saying "who are these people and why do we care what time their trains arrive?" lol


But now I have learned those are legitimate questions especially when somebody is missing.

nursebeeme
02-05-2011, 05:55 PM
so where is Hailey and where are the investigators at in her case? amazing! shades of the Kayleah Wilson case to me... moo

CONNIEHU
02-05-2011, 05:56 PM
Dr. Fessel: You can't be in protective custody with a state-approved legal guardian providing said custody?

Many times families that have CPS involved are given an option of appointing a family member that CPS approves for the child(ren) to be placed with a safety plan written. Any stipulations can be written into a safety plan as far as visitation visits, times and places of visitation, counseling, drug assesments, etc. This can all be in place while CPS completes their investigation and is able to deem a home is safe. I am sure there is a timeline for CPS to complete their investigation, but I dont know what it is.

At the time a child is return to their home with their parents there is usually another safety plan put into place and CPS stays involved to makesure all is going well and the parent do not slide back into old habits, wether it be drug abuse, neglectful supervision or what ever the "charge". They may have random UAs and other terms to meet even at that time.

The state is mandated to have a child in some type of permenent placement within a year with a possible 6 month extention. I personally do not work for CPS but work with many families that have involvement with CPS for one reason or another. This is the short and not so "sweet" of what I have seen happen to families involved with CPS. It is a very trying time for the involved children.

OneLove
02-05-2011, 05:59 PM
Dr. Fessel: You can't be in protective custody with a state-approved legal guardian providing said custody?....which was then clearly stated by an authority as being in 'protective custody'? :waitasec:

Aunts, Uncles, Grandparents, older siblings, etc. are often PREFERRED by social services as guardians rather than placing a child with an unknown foster parent.

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 06:02 PM
We just did the whole link pulling exercise about DD living with the uncle.
The wording I saw was that it is a protective order, not custody, but a protective order that BD voluntarily agreed to, and CPS approved the uncle's home.

yllek
02-05-2011, 06:02 PM
Exactly, which is the main reason I don't see him coming back to C.City to go to B.Springs. If he was not going to stop at the house for anything he would have went another way. IMO.

Right. And, that's how the visit to Grams before 6:30 in the morning was born, imo. Looking at the map, Dunn is between Snyder and CC on the straight shot drive down the 208. If that little impromptu crack-o'dawn visit to Grams hadn't been born, there would be no way to explain why SA didn't hit the I-20 towards Big Spring from Weaver Pipeline. Almost twice as fast from work to his mom's house.

I think SA and his lawyer got the cell records (or even just looked at the affdavit) and concocted a story that could make SA's CC phone pings sound more believable. That story just doesn't work though. Even if we believed he payed Grams a visit in Dunn on 12/27 a.m., it doesn't seem possible that he would be hitting off the same cell tower as Billie's house, while driving down a highway towards Big Spring for 21 minutes. Even if says he took side roads instead of a highway once he got to CC (which makes no sense), it's a small town - I think you'd be out of CC within 21 minutes if you were really driving toward something. IMO.

CONNIEHU
02-05-2011, 06:03 PM
OT alert..........funny....reminds me of logic problems that I used to hate but lately have begun to like....the one about a train going x amount of speed and another train going y amount of speed and what time will it arrive?
I used to joke about that saying "who are these people and why do we care what time their trains arrive?" lol


But now I have learned those are legitimate questions especially when somebody is missing.

I have often thought that when teaching subjects if teachers would show some practical application then many would see where the information might be useful.

When I took chemistry we always had to find the ph and hardness of water. I was clueless as to why I would even care. We have had to tend to our pool and boy it is really important to make sure how much chemicles we need. Also living in the country and being on well water water well it makes perfect sense when I see the lime buildup on my faucets.... So you def make a good point

TGIRecovered
02-05-2011, 06:19 PM
I can't imagine why a father would neglect to noitfy police that his daughter was missing, especially when he knew that Hailey had not spent the night where her mother was told she was going. Add to that the fact that Clint says he was home all day Monday but Hailey did not come over, and you have a very suspicious situation. Why delay making that report? Clint has stated that he did not suspect she had run away and that Billie wouldn't hurt her, so the only option left would be that something very bad has happened and his child is missing or dead. Why did Clint wait for Billie to get a ride back to town? Why didn't he call 911 and have an officer waiting at the house?

What if Clint's suspicion that someone who is a relative or aquaintence from the past may have taken Hailey is correct, but police focus on SA instead? What if SA was hiding some kind of abuse of Hailey, but a person from the past took her?

Clint voiced his desire to see all of the motel tapes during the radio interview. I think that Clint would probably not voice that fear without good reason. He sounded genuinely concerned, to me.

I am concerned that SA does not seem to be a criminal mastermind, yet we have no crime scene, no witnesses, no discarded clothing determined to belong to Hailey or a perp. We have no body, and SA does not appear to have her in his posession. I don't like the guy at all, and I do believe he is capable of murder, but I am beginning to wonder if someone else beat him to it. I think that Clint and Billie wonder about that too, and they both agree that LE has not followed leads in a timely and thorough manner. ( This is a paraphrase of comments CD and BD have made on separate occassions.)

All of the above is MOO, based upon Clint and Naomi's blogradio interview, Billie's statements, and statements made by LE as reported in the MSM.

Quiche
02-05-2011, 06:26 PM
Imo, when Billie requested that Clint call LE to notify LE that she would be coming to make a report, it just wasn't that time yet-- no one had called around to all her friends to be certain she was indeed missing. mo

SoSueMe
02-05-2011, 06:29 PM
Is that stretch of I-20 only two lanes for sure? Most Interstates in Texas are at least a 4 lane divided highway, but I guess some areas can go down to two lanes.

If SA did stop by his grandmother's, I think it was only to avoid having BD seeing him driving back to CC.

Nana46
02-05-2011, 06:30 PM
I can't imagine why a father would neglect to noitfy police that his daughter was missing, especially when he knew that Hailey had not spent the night where her mother was told she was going. Add to that the fact that Clint says he was home all day Monday but Hailey did not come over, and you have a very suspicious situation. Why delay making that report? Clint has stated that he did not suspect she had run away and that Billie wouldn't hurt her, so the only option left would be that something very bad has happened and his child is missing or dead. Why did Clint wait for Billie to get a ride back to town? Why didn't he call 911 and have an officer waiting at the house?

What if Clint's suspicion that someone who is a relative or aquaintence from the past may have taken Hailey is correct, but police focus on SA instead? What if SA was hiding some kind of abuse of Hailey, but a person from the past took her?

Clint voiced his desire to see all of the motel tapes during the radio interview. I think that Clint would probably not voice that fear without good reason. He sounded genuinely concerned, to me.

I am concerned that SA does not seem to be a criminal mastermind, yet we have no crime scene, no witnesses, no discarded clothing determined to belong to Hailey or a perp. We have no body, and SA does not appear to have her in his posession. I don't like the guy at all, and I do believe he is capable of murder, but I am beginning to wonder if someone else beat him to it. I think that Clint and Billie wonder about that too, and they both agree that LE has not followed leads in a timely and thorough manner. ( This is a paraphrase of comments CD and BD have made on separate occassions.)

All of the above is MOO, based upon Clint and Naomi's blogradio interview, Billie's statements, and statements made by LE as reported in the MSM.

All valid points IMO. I am still on the fence where I have been all this time. The thing with SA/BD that bothers me is his actions......why do those days not add up and why does BD seem to accept his explanations? If for no other reason his lying about his job situation, his phone pings and explanations about where he was do not add up and that is all we have been privy to but she can explain those away........I am sorry....I don't understand how these can be explained away that easily....I understand she is emotional and maybe explaining his actions are the last thing on her list but these things happened at a crucial time in the relationship.............why??????

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 06:33 PM
I can't imagine why a father would neglect to noitfy police that his daughter was missing, especially when he knew that Hailey had not spent the night where her mother was told she was going. Add to that the fact that Clint says he was home all day Monday but Hailey did not come over, and you have a very suspicious situation. Why delay making that report? Clint has stated that he did not suspect she had run away and that Billie wouldn't hurt her, so the only option left would be that something very bad has happened and his child is missing or dead. Why did Clint wait for Billie to get a ride back to town? Why didn't he call 911 and have an officer waiting at the house?

What if Clint's suspicion that someone who is a relative or aquaintence from the past may have taken Hailey is correct, but police focus on SA instead? What if SA was hiding some kind of abuse of Hailey, but a person from the past took her?

Clint voiced his desire to see all of the motel tapes during the radio interview. I think that Clint would probably not voice that fear without good reason. He sounded genuinely concerned, to me.

I am concerned that SA does not seem to be a criminal mastermind, yet we have no crime scene, no witnesses, no discarded clothing determined to belong to Hailey or a perp. We have no body, and SA does not appear to have her in his posession. I don't like the guy at all, and I do believe he is capable of murder, but I am beginning to wonder if someone else beat him to it. I think that Clint and Billie wonder about that too, and they both agree that LE has not followed leads in a timely and thorough manner. ( This is a paraphrase of comments CD and BD have made on separate occassions.)

All of the above is MOO, based upon Clint and Naomi's blogradio interview, Billie's statements, and statements made by LE as reported in the MSM.

I thought Clint was at work on Monday when HD did or didn't stop by for a minute and was home on Tuesday with a sore back? And I will have to go double check but I thought the asking Clint to call 911 was according to Billie in version three but not one or two and was never confirmed by Clint, but as I said I will go reread that section.

That being said even if it did happen I assume this was a quick call from BD saying she was coming home, HD was not at MBs and to call 911 (supposedly). That is a lot to process in a single call, he does not know that SA is the only one that heard this story, that MB says there were no plans, BD had not spoken to MB or her mother at this point so there is no way CD would have detail in clear manner.

BD is twenty minutes from home, I would think with a teenager you would take twenty minutes to look for her. If this request was even made.

peeples
02-05-2011, 06:34 PM
I can't imagine why a father would neglect to noitfy police that his daughter was missing, especially when he knew that Hailey had not spent the night where her mother was told she was going. Add to that the fact that Clint says he was home all day Monday but Hailey did not come over, and you have a very suspicious situation. Why delay making that report? Clint has stated that he did not suspect she had run away and that Billie wouldn't hurt her, so the only option left would be that something very bad has happened and his child is missing or dead. Why did Clint wait for Billie to get a ride back to town? Why didn't he call 911 and have an officer waiting at the house?

What if Clint's suspicion that someone who is a relative or aquaintence from the past may have taken Hailey is correct, but police focus on SA instead? What if SA was hiding some kind of abuse of Hailey, but a person from the past took her?

Clint voiced his desire to see all of the motel tapes during the radio interview. I think that Clint would probably not voice that fear without good reason. He sounded genuinely concerned, to me.

I am concerned that SA does not seem to be a criminal mastermind, yet we have no crime scene, no witnesses, no discarded clothing determined to belong to Hailey or a perp. We have no body, and SA does not appear to have her in his posession. I don't like the guy at all, and I do believe he is capable of murder, but I am beginning to wonder if someone else beat him to it. I think that Clint and Billie wonder about that too, and they both agree that LE has not followed leads in a timely and thorough manner. ( This is a paraphrase of comments CD and BD have made on separate occassions.)

All of the above is MOO, based upon Clint and Naomi's blogradio interview, Billie's statements, and statements made by LE as reported in the MSM.

You make some VERY good points :)

impatientredhead
02-05-2011, 06:36 PM
Is that stretch of I-20 only two lanes for sure? Most Interstates in Texas are at least a 4 lane divided highway, but I guess some areas can go down to two lanes.

If SA did stop by his grandmother's, I think it was only to avoid having BD seeing him driving back to CC.

Where does he keep his deer hunting equipment? However he defines that....