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View Full Version : The couch issue - and painting the walls


Kimster
02-08-2011, 06:44 PM
It's been hashed and rehashed in the general threads. Here's a topic thread.

tehcloser
02-08-2011, 06:48 PM
Trying to find the couches is like playing "Where's Waldo?". I lost count of the number of stories about them. If they were simply replaced by nicer ones, no need for changing stories. But like everything with this case...nothing is as they WANT it to appear.

Quiche
02-08-2011, 06:56 PM
They need to be found and tested for fluids, if it hasn't already been done. mo :(

Wise Old Owl
02-08-2011, 07:23 PM
From the pics of the couches on the truck - it looks to me like they might have taken the cushions. Maybe that's some of the things that LE is awaiting test results on.

yllek
02-08-2011, 07:34 PM
It's been so hard to get a straight answer about the wandering couches. They went to the dump, they went to a person in need in the neighborhood, they went to the dump again.

All I really want to know is if the CCPD car parked in front of the house (in the picture with the couches in the truck) was there investigating this as a possible crime scene. I don't think we know when the couches were "moved", but shortly after the first NG appearance on 1/3. At that time, I believe SA's computer and the cell phones had been confiscated and the Rangers were on the scene. This leads me to believe (hope) the cushions were actually removed as evidence and BD's bro chipped in the new ones. I'd feel better if that was confirmed. Billie saying they were taken to the dump means nothing to me; just like DD being moved out per her request...

my_tee_mouse
02-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Wow! Finally the mysterious meandering couches have a home! (But I'm not sittin' on 'em!)

Good thought, Ladies, about the cushions being removed and therefore the need to replace the couches. One can only hope. But like Closer says, if that's all there was to it, then why the changing stories?

Janeumayer
02-08-2011, 07:59 PM
The couches were also seen on SA's truck at either his mom's or grandma's house. They sure have travelled!

yllek
02-08-2011, 08:19 PM
Wow! Finally the mysterious meandering couches have a home! (But I'm not sittin' on 'em!)

Good thought, Ladies, about the cushions being removed and therefore the need to replace the couches. One can only hope. But like Closer says, if that's all there was to it, then why the changing stories?

If they really were removed because LE seized the couches (or seized the cushions) as evidence, I think Billie would not want to admit it (again, like DD being taken out of the home). Anything that points to her and her house being looked into is always deflected by Billie, imo...

my_tee_mouse
02-08-2011, 08:22 PM
If they really were removed because LE seized the couches (or seized the cushions) as evidence, I think Billie would not want to admit it (again, like DD being taken out of the home). Anything that points to her and her house being looked into is always deflected by Billie, imo...
That was my first thought as well, yllek.

Melanie
02-08-2011, 08:40 PM
As I mentioned in another thread, anyone who feels the need to move furniture, or replace furniture, during a missing persons case should have their head examined.

Missing beds, shiny new beds, etc (in other cases). In this case, Hailey slept on the couch - poof it's gone.

Hinky stinky to me!

MOO

Mel

yllek
02-08-2011, 08:43 PM
Just did a little tutorial on the differences between soaps and synthetic detergents (seriously). Detergents don't leave scum and one of the base components is sulfuric acid. Mixed with water and using gloves, sulfuric acid can be used on fabrics. Can even remove rust stains and such. I wonder if Nancy Grace was actually right about the sulfuric acid being looked for by LE, but sensationalized the possible usage of it in this case... Maybe not at all related, but if SA does have access at work, could possibly explain a trip to work in the a.m., back to house for clean-up, etc... Just spekulatin...

buffetoflies
02-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Wait. What?

Can someone fill me on the couch deal? I stopped following the individual threads around 25ish ... then only a page here and there. What I read had nothing to do with couches.

yllek
02-08-2011, 09:36 PM
Wait. What?

Can someone fill me on the couch deal? I stopped following the individual threads around 25ish ... then only a page here and there. What I read had nothing to do with couches.

Billie and Shawn were interviewed on 1/3 sitting on a Santa-Fe patterned couch. At some point soon thereafter, the couch in Billie's living room was a different one. Someone snapped a photo of the old living room couches sitting in a pick up truck at Billie's house, there was a CCPD parked at the curb. Many of us thought it was very odd to be redecorating right after your daughter disappeared, especially since the last person to see her was in the house and says she was watching tv in the living room.

A local said her friend arranged for the couches to be hauled to the dump because Billie was given new couches by her brother and the old ones were in bad shape. We asked if the old ones had been processed by LE. The local did not know and said that it turned out they weren't taken to the dump. Instead, a needy person in the neighborhood saw them sitting outside in the truck for days and asked if she could have them, and that's where they were taken. We asked the local to confirm LE had processed them completely; she called CCPD and told us that they confirmed they were in the house when LE searched it. Billie said last night that the couches were taken to the dump.

So, here we are. Wondering and hoping that the couches (or at least the cushions, as Wild Old Owl pointed out) were really seized as evidence. It's hinky to some of us that no one saw Hailey outside the house since Sunday 12/26, she's missing, and the couch that she often slept on and was supposedly last seen on is gone, and there's no straight answer about it.

more details:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125252&page=40

Truthwillsetufree
02-08-2011, 09:51 PM
Just thought of this...I wasn't all that concerned about the couches with that being said, I was more concerned about Hailey's matress being on the floor of her room when pics were first released of her room.
Then BD stated Hailey slept on the couch until a week ago when she got the tv for her room....
Then BD said she checked on Hailey Monday morning to ease her mind but didn't touch her....My question to BD is this, when you looked in Hailey's room did you look at Haileys bed or did you look at the matress on the floor to check on her and ease your mind?

eileenhawkeye
02-08-2011, 10:40 PM
I believe that the couch contains evidence in Hailey's disappearance and that's why it was replaced. It just seems too convenient that they would get a new couch right after Hailey went missing. Your daughter is missing; is replacing furniture really that important? Huge red flag for me.

ETA: If BD and SA could give an interview on the couch on national TV, then I doubt the couches were in horrible shape that they had to be replaced ASAP. They could have easily done an interview sitting at chairs at the kitchen table.

Nana46
02-09-2011, 12:11 AM
I believe that the couch contains evidence in Hailey's disappearance and that's why it was replaced. It just seems too convenient that they would get a new couch right after Hailey went missing. Your daughter is missing; is replacing furniture really that important? Huge red flag for me.

ETA: If BD and SA could give an interview on the couch on national TV, then I doubt the couches were in horrible shape that they had to be replaced ASAP. They could have easily done an interview sitting at chairs at the kitchen table.

I can't believe the couch has its own thread,lol:crazy:
And BD and SA could not give an interview sitting in chairs at the kitchen table 'cause they would not be close enough to each other...............gag. LOL MOOO

Pondering Mind
02-09-2011, 03:47 AM
For what it's worth Billie's friend clearly states here what happened to the couch..

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

snipped~
Billie's brother bought new couches, and gave her his old ones. Billie's old ones got stuck in the back of that broken down truck in her front yard for lack of anywhere else to put them. The couches sat there for 2 or 3 days, and then a woman came by and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes, and the woman had a couple of guys pick them up for her.

I am quite sure that LE can track down the woman who took the couches if they are so inclined. But there is nothing nefarious about Billie getting different couches.



Then on BringThemHomeNow...right at the 60 minute mark..
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bringthemhomenow

Billie says that the couch sat out in the front yard and some guys that worked at the power plant (made sure to say that she didn't know who they were) came by and offered to take them to the dump..the local CC dump..



Why is it so difficult to get a clear answer about the dang couch?!

Zoe Bogart
02-09-2011, 04:46 AM
Like others, I've wondered about those couches, too (even though I always refer to the item as "sofa", I bow to majority consensus). Especially after hearing so many references to the living room and the couch, I'm especially curious about the whole deal. Statements such as "Hailey always slept on the couch", "slept in the living room", "I want a living, breathing Hailey in my living room", "she sits on the couch watching TV instead of searching for Hailey"... I don't know. It just seems like something in that room was very important to BD, and others, too.

Then there's the issue of the mattress on the floor in the wintertime, not to mention the similarities of another case with a mattress on the floor in winter. Floors are the coldest part of the house on the lowest level (except windows, but no one claims to sleep on a windowsill in these cases). It's just all too hinky.

The changing story doesn't help. How many versions can an honest person give? I also wonder how a mother of a missing daughter can be bothered with furniture just a week after her daughter "disappears", but then I think, maybe she knows the child isn't "missing". :maddening:

LisaB
02-09-2011, 06:11 AM
The couches were also seen on SA's truck at either his mom's or grandma's house. They sure have travelled!

By whom? They were seen in a black truck outside Billie's but when were they at Shawn's? I have only heard one story...

Billie's brother got new sofas. He offered her the old ones which were in better shape than hers. Her old ones were put in the truck, which does not run, until someone could come take them to the dump in a couple days. In the meantime, someone else came to the door and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes. When the people came to take them to the dump the next day, they had already been removed. LE knows who has them, and was notified in advance that they were being removed.

LisaB
02-09-2011, 06:20 AM
For what it's worth Billie's friend clearly states here what happened to the couch..

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6054159#post6054159)

snipped~
Billie's brother bought new couches, and gave her his old ones. Billie's old ones got stuck in the back of that broken down truck in her front yard for lack of anywhere else to put them. The couches sat there for 2 or 3 days, and then a woman came by and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes, and the woman had a couple of guys pick them up for her.

I am quite sure that LE can track down the woman who took the couches if they are so inclined. But there is nothing nefarious about Billie getting different couches.



Then on BringThemHomeNow...right at the 60 minute mark..
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bringthemhomenow

Billie says that the couch sat out in the front yard and some guys that worked at the power plant (made sure to say that she didn't know who they were) came by and offered to take them to the dump..the local CC dump..



Why is it so difficult to get a clear answer about the dang couch?!

This is all correct. And consistent.

Billie's brother bought new couches, and gave her his old ones. Billie's old ones got stuck in the back of that broken down truck in her front yard for lack of anywhere else to put them. The couches sat there for 2 or 3 days...

Billie says that the couch sat out in the front yard and some guys that worked at the power plant (made sure to say that she didn't know who they were) came by and offered to come by with a truck to take them to the dump..the local CC dump.

Then a woman came by and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes, and the woman had a couple of guys pick them up for her.

The "power plant guys" came to get them and they were already gone.

Zoe Bogart
02-09-2011, 06:45 AM
This is all correct. And consistent.

Billie's brother bought new couches, and gave her his old ones. Billie's old ones got stuck in the back of that broken down truck in her front yard for lack of anywhere else to put them. The couches sat there for 2 or 3 days...

Billie says that the couch sat out in the front yard and some guys that worked at the power plant (made sure to say that she didn't know who they were) came by and offered to come by with a truck to take them to the dump..the local CC dump.

Then a woman came by and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes, and the woman had a couple of guys pick them up for her.

The "power plant guys" came to get them and they were already gone.

But, but, but...

On BTH Billie said the power plant guys asked if they could bring the couches to the dump, the local CCity dump. The interviewer asked her specifically if anyone wanted to look at the couches they were at the CCity dump and Billie said, "yes".

I just listened to it and that's what she said, couches are at the dump. No mention of any woman getting those couches.

Crosby87
02-09-2011, 06:57 AM
BD is a Compulsive Liar.

Hailey was staying elsewhere periodically and I wonder if BD ever kicked Hailey out of her house in the heat of an argument or told Hailey to leave?

Snip

The Definition of a Compulsive Liar

A compulsive liar is someone who lies with ease and finds comfort in it. The person will fib about everything and anything with no conscience whatsoever. Lying has become an addiction, and the person doesn't even think about the lies he or she tells. The person will even continue to lie if you present the truth in cold hard facts. Getting a person to admit he or she lied is almost impossible.

Surprisingly, Compulsive Lying Disorder is not actually a psychiatric disorder. Instead, it may be a symptom of another psychiatric disorder such as Borderline Personality or Bipolar Disorder. Not all people who are compulsive liars suffer from a psychiatric illness, but there is usually an underlying reason for the behavior.

• Addicted to the thrill: The person loves the excitement of being able to deceive others and enjoys the reactions received from people. The lying continues because the person craves the attention and thrill of getting away with it.
• Fear of repercussions: Sometimes people will fib when they know the truth will get them into trouble. Usually in this case, one false story turns into many others.
• Seeking rewards: People will sometimes lie because they want something they wouldn't be able to get otherwise.
• Low self-esteem: People who feel down on themselves and want to look better in the eyes of the people around them will often make up stories about themselves.

The Difference Between Pathological and Compulsive Liar

Many people get these two confused because they are similar. However, pathological liars usually only fib when they want to make themselves look better in front of other people. They create an entirely different role for themselves that they must continue to portray over time, and this means they have to keep lying. The main difference between pathological and compulsive liars is that pathological liars will believe they are telling the truth, while compulsive liars know they are not, but will never admit it. With a pathological liar, you never really know if what they say is true or not, and you may never find out.

How NOT to Deal with a Liar

You may feel compelled to prove to the person what he or she says is not right, but save yourself the time and effort. The compulsive liar will most likely not listen to you. All it will do is cause more grief for you because you will become easily aggravated at the person because of the persistence he or she shows for the untruth.

The Choice is Yours

Compulsive lying is a habit, so it is likely the person doing the lying will never stop. You can either deal with the lies or move on with your life and enjoy it with genuine people. If you can't let this person go, just remember to not place much faith in what he or she says.

http://addiction.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Compulsive_Lying_Disorder

Zoe Bogart
02-09-2011, 08:04 AM
Whether or not BD is a compulsive liar, she definitely implied other people are lying on the radio show BTHN, she said Hailey never lived with DB or Clint (since separation implied) and she's only attended CC school!

We have her friend stating BD said one thing about the couches and BD herself stating another on the radio show.

We know BD changes her stories as often as I change underwear, or more, so how can we trust anything she says?

I wish anyone who touched those couches when they were on that truck to come forward and give their side of the story, and I mean the plant workers and/or the woman who supposedly took them.

This is crazy!!! :pullhair:

yllek
02-09-2011, 08:39 AM
O/T

Wise Old Owl:

Just noticed in my post upthread that I referred to you as Wild Old Owl. Sorry! I can tell from your posts that you're Wise, but have no idea whether you're Wild or not. Apologies... This case is making me crazy... :crazy:

Truthwillsetufree
02-09-2011, 09:02 AM
O/T

Wise Old Owl:

Just noticed in my post upthread that I referred to you as Wild Old Owl. Sorry! I can tell from your posts that you're Wise, but have no idea whether you're Wild or not. Apologies... This case is making me crazy... :crazy:

Ooh maybe it's Wild Wise Old Owl, kinda has a ring to it...:crazy:

my_tee_mouse
02-09-2011, 09:36 AM
O/T

Wise Old Owl:

Just noticed in my post upthread that I referred to you as Wild Old Owl. Sorry! I can tell from your posts that you're Wise, but have no idea whether you're Wild or not. Apologies... This case is making me crazy... :crazy:
Thinkin' that suits her.:great:

A new 12" of snow this morning...on top of what's left from the last two storms...and still coming! I better shut up. BD will be trying to hide the couch in my backyard.

(Keep having to remind myself that I live in the Sunny South!)

Wise Old Owl
02-09-2011, 10:42 AM
O/T

Wise Old Owl:

Just noticed in my post upthread that I referred to you as Wild Old Owl. Sorry! I can tell from your posts that you're Wise, but have no idea whether you're Wild or not. Apologies... This case is making me crazy... :crazy:
:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

That's quite all right. Yes, I've been known to be a little wild - but I try to limit my "wildness" to the basement and parking lot.

And I kinda like Wild Wise Old Owl too. :crazy:

Soulmagent
02-09-2011, 11:56 AM
So in reveiwing the case in my head and thinking about the couch being traded I got to thinking about all the other changes and details that are weird. Not weird per say but interesting and inconvenient . Not that I am suspicous of these events but I do think we should note them cuz one never knows.

SA quits job
CD's phone is broke
BD gets handme down couch
THe uncle brother/ Gets a new couch
CD moves
Neighbor that saw Hailey on phone is kick out of his friends house so he moves.

Maybe we should start a thread? an inconvenient time line? I dunno it just seems all these things could be redflags if they were arranged differently but they arent but who is to say whats going to happen later.
Are any of the events going to become more important later, excluding SA's job?

Pondering Mind
02-09-2011, 08:12 PM
This is all correct. And consistent.

Billie's brother bought new couches, and gave her his old ones. Billie's old ones got stuck in the back of that broken down truck in her front yard for lack of anywhere else to put them. The couches sat there for 2 or 3 days...

Billie says that the couch sat out in the front yard and some guys that worked at the power plant (made sure to say that she didn't know who they were) came by and offered to come by with a truck to take them to the dump..the local CC dump.

Then a woman came by and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes, and the woman had a couple of guys pick them up for her.

The "power plant guys" came to get them and they were already gone.

While I have no idea what, if anything the couch has to do with the investigation, I have to respectfully disagree with you here..These stories are NOT consistent IMO..to be honest I find the inconsistencies here quite typical of the inconsistencies we have heard throughout this case..Some have been slightly inconsistent and some much more glaring..but when 2+2 never equals 4, you gotta wonder about everything...

What bothers me most about these couch stories is that in the 2 versions mentioned in my previous post both came from Billie herself and they are not the same..

The first version in which Billies friend supposedly specifically ask her about them and this was what Billie said..

The couches sat there for 2 or 3 days, and then a woman came by and asked if she could have them. Billie said yes, and the woman had a couple of guys pick them up for her.


In the second version which we heard for ourselves she states..

some guys that worked at the power plant came by and offered to take them to the dump..the local CC dump..

No mention of this 'lady' or the 'dump' at all in #2...She makes it sound like she KNEW that some lady wanted this couch to use in story #1. If it was one or two mis-speaks, I wouldn't think much of it, but when just about every story has changed in some way in this case, I can't help but wonder why.. So I have to ask..It is coincidence, (once again) did she mis-speak, was she just wrong in her first tale, or is she lying about it for a reason? I'm of the mind that many details had to be changed as time went on for some reason and I want to know what that reason is...


Link to friends complete post...
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

BeanE
02-09-2011, 08:17 PM
Posting for reference from Billie's radio interview:

Caller Katrina asks about the couches.

Okay, the couches were taken out a couple of weeks ago, just because my brother got new furniture, and brought me his old furniture, which was in better shape than mine. We set them out in the front yard. Some guys that worked at the power plant, I don’t even know the people, but they came by and offered to take them to the dump, the local Colorado City dump.

Caller Katrina: So if anyone, Billie, wanted to look at those couches for any reason, they’re at the dump. Correct?

Correct.

Host: They have searched the dump, but it wasn’t for those couches?

No, it wasn’t for the couches, just our trash. Anything Hailey could’ve wrote on, or anybody could’ve wrote any kind of clue on.

Pondering Mind
02-09-2011, 08:32 PM
Posting for reference from Billie's radio interview:

Caller Katrina asks about the couches.

Okay, the couches were taken out a couple of weeks ago, just because my brother got new furniture, and brought me his old furniture, which was in better shape than mine. We set them out in the front yard. Some guys that worked at the power plant, I don’t even know the people, but they came by and offered to take them to the dump, the local Colorado City dump.

Caller Katrina: So if anyone, Billie, wanted to look at those couches for any reason, they’re at the dump. Correct?

Correct.

Host: They have searched the dump, but it wasn’t for those couches?

No, it wasn’t for the couches, just our trash. Anything Hailey could’ve wrote on, or anybody could’ve wrote any kind of clue on.

TY BeanE...Don't you just love the "I don't even know the people"? Big surprise there, huh? Just keep everything vague..I'm guessing that's been the plan all along..

Nana46
02-09-2011, 08:39 PM
I am afraid I am going to have nightmares about this couch....I try to not see the thread for it and then there it is, LOL

Pondering Mind
02-09-2011, 08:41 PM
I am afraid I am going to have nightmares about this couch....I try to not see the thread for it and then there it is, LOL

Nana..I'm one that didn't think a whole lot about the couch until the stories of the disposal of it started changing!



eta~In the beginning I *assumed* that only an idiot would dispose of a couch that contained any evidence right smack in the middle of an investigation...now I wonder, lol...

lillys
02-09-2011, 08:43 PM
Could there be a chance LE has the couch and we just don't know about it?

It just bothers me that the couch was tossed out and replaced just a few days after a child disappeared. imoo

NSS
02-09-2011, 09:03 PM
Nana..I'm one that didn't think a whole lot about the couch until the stories of the disposal of it started changing!



eta~In the beginning I *assumed* that only an idiot would dispose of a couch that contained any evidence right smack in the middle of an investigation...now I wonder, lol...

Kinda like only a fool would delete (already seen) texts in front of a LE officer?

:waitasec: (sorry couldn't help myself)

Nana46
02-09-2011, 09:09 PM
Dangdest dang case I ever dang done seen.:banghead:

yllek
02-09-2011, 09:47 PM
I think those power plant dudes that Billie does't even know (who graciously volunteered to escort her couches to the dump) are law enforcements officers. Those couches are being tested for vomit, blood, other bodily fluids, and signs of sulfuric acid and/or other agents used for deep cleaning.

Thats my position on the couch right now; but again, I'd be more comfortable if we had some LE confirmation...

P.s. I agree with WiseOldOwl that the cushions may have been taken first; but the full couches are needed to test the arm rests and the back rest too. And, I think the couch issue is totally thread-worthy - they could be the only source of physical evidence if something happened to Hailey before she was moved from the house. Billie's minimizing their importance just confirms their importance to me. I have never put so much thought into couches in my life!

katydid23
02-09-2011, 10:07 PM
I think those power plant dudes that Billie does't even know (who graciously volunteered to escort her couches to the dump) are law enforcements officers. Those couches are being tested for vomit, blood, other bodily fluids, and signs of sulfuric acid and/or other agents used for deep cleaning.

Thats my position on the couch right now; but again, I'd be more comfortable if we had some LE confirmation...

I hope you are right. I just don't know if I have enough faith to believe that. I don't know if they knew, at that point in the investigation, that HD slep on the couch every night. I hope they knew that, and I HOPE they thought it was odd that the couches were being removed from the house. But then again we hear that random strangers were taking them to the city dump.

My only hope is what someone mentioned upstream somewhere, that PERHAPS LE took the cushions a long time ago. We can hope anyway.

Pondering Mind
02-10-2011, 06:30 AM
I think those power plant dudes that Billie does't even know (who graciously volunteered to escort her couches to the dump) are law enforcements officers. Those couches are being tested for vomit, blood, other bodily fluids, and signs of sulfuric acid and/or other agents used for deep cleaning.

Thats my position on the couch right now; but again, I'd be more comfortable if we had some LE confirmation...

P.s. I agree with WiseOldOwl that the cushions may have been taken first; but the full couches are needed to test the arm rests and the back rest too. And, I think the couch issue is totally thread-worthy - they could be the only source of physical evidence if something happened to Hailey before she was moved from the house. Billie's minimizing their importance just confirms their importance to me. I have never put so much thought into couches in my life!


ahhh...vedy, vedy good thinking my dear! That thought hadn't occurred to me! I swear though..IF the couch does have any kind of evidence found on it and BD and SA set it out in the middle of this investigation...I will be just flabbergasted..that would just take the cake..

gngr~snap
02-10-2011, 06:42 AM
SERIOUSLY! BD admits that is where HD slept! basically HDs bed?
Isn't that like a guy selling his missing wifes car the week after she goes missing?
Well worse, cause it could be the smoking gun here.It HAS to be signficant.

Truthwillsetufree
02-10-2011, 09:33 AM
The only things about the couches is this....
What evidence could be found?
Bodily fluids...occurs on any couch...
Hair fibers...occurs on any couch....
Cleaning agents...occurs on any couch...
Blood residue..occurs on any couch....
Decomposition fluids....okay, this would be a problem.....
Have I missed anything? Please add to if I did.

CN2Souls
02-10-2011, 09:36 AM
The only things about the couches is this....
What evidence could be found?
Bodily fluids...occurs on any couch...
Hair fibers...occurs on any couch....
Cleaning agents...occurs on any couch...
Blood residue..occurs on any couch....
Decomposition fluids....okay, this would be a problem.....
Have I missed anything? Please add to if I did.


Hair Follicle (like in Caylee's case) with death ring...


What bothers me (can't think of the right word).... is they sat on that very couch and gave interviews...

I will be utterly appalled if it then comes back with decomposition on it... (thats if they are indeed testing it)

my_tee_mouse
02-10-2011, 09:37 AM
The only things about the couches is this....
What evidence could be found?
Bodily fluids...occurs on any couch...
Hair fibers...occurs on any couch....
Cleaning agents...occurs on any couch...
Blood residue..occurs on any couch....
Decomposition fluids....okay, this would be a problem.....
Have I missed anything? Please add to if I did.
Traces of regurgitated drugs.

yllek
02-10-2011, 09:58 AM
ahhh...vedy, vedy good thinking my dear! That thought hadn't occurred to me! I swear though..IF the couch does have any kind of evidence found on it and BD and SA set it out in the middle of this investigation...I will be just flabbergasted..that would just take the cake..

BBM

I hear ya; that cake is all gone for me.

I was flabbergasted when we learned that Billie had known about Shawn leaving work on 12/27 a.m. at least 5 days before her first NG appearance and chose to lie about it. She chose to lie about critical details regarding the day of her daughter's disappearance to a national audience. That's as bold as say cleaning couches and then leaving them outside to get weathered and so the the acidic detergent smell doesn't permeate the house, for example.

I was flabbergasted by a press conference to introduce the Shawn-based time line (even though he is an admitted liar - will lie to Billie about big issues so she doesn't get mad), the many proclamations of love for Shawn but so few for Hailey (except from Shawn!), the obvious attempt to use a red earring to point the investigation in another direction without regard for the impact on others, the stupidity of posting illegal drug use on public forums and leaving them there because apparently you think it's so normal it doesn't even cross your mind, the repeated attempts to make LE and the concerned public the slanderous opposition and the "bad guys", the self-imposed running theme of Billie and Shawn - the unjustly persecuted lovers, the thoughtlessness of not encouraging and contributing to searchers (Clint did, not Billie), the insensitivity of not attending a balloon launch in your missing daughter's honor... Lots of hiding in plain sight types of behavior, imo. I think I'm numbed; very little that these folks do could flabbergast me anymore. I'm expecting more bombshells and I'm better prepared for them now!

Dang, I hope Hailey is found soon.....

yllek
02-10-2011, 10:03 AM
Traces of regurgitated drugs.

That's what I'm thinking too as most likely and highly incriminating.

If there's anything to the sulfuric acid theory, that would be incriminating too. If used, it would probably be only on one couch and in patches.

my_tee_mouse
02-10-2011, 10:07 AM
Here. I found the couch. It's hiding up here in 17 inches of snow on this "hill":

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/182765_201529809861000_100000119482436_878555_4261 531_n.jpg

("Up to" -9 degrees. w00tw00t! "Having a heat wave...")

tehcloser
02-10-2011, 11:10 AM
I think those power plant dudes that Billie does't even know (who graciously volunteered to escort her couches to the dump) are law enforcements officers. Those couches are being tested for vomit, blood, other bodily fluids, and signs of sulfuric acid and/or other agents used for deep cleaning.

Thats my position on the couch right now; but again, I'd be more comfortable if we had some LE confirmation...

P.s. I agree with WiseOldOwl that the cushions may have been taken first; but the full couches are needed to test the arm rests and the back rest too. And, I think the couch issue is totally thread-worthy - they could be the only source of physical evidence if something happened to Hailey before she was moved from the house. Billie's minimizing their importance just confirms their importance to me. I have never put so much thought into couches in my life!

Well see though...here's the problem. How does it go from one person who knew the LADY that took the couches/had the couches hauled off, (and this person supposedly called this lady to confirm LE knew about these couches and told us yes they did), then to a random LADY who stopped and asked if she could have the couches - she took them, noticed they were damaged, so she took them to the dump - and now we have 2 random dudes from the power company that no one knows? And we are supposed to take BD's word for it? :floorlaugh: Naw.........to many stories about those couches for them to be innocent. We have guilty couches.

yllek
02-10-2011, 12:10 PM
Well see though...here's the problem. How does it go from one person who knew the LADY that took the couches/had the couches hauled off, (and this person supposedly called this lady to confirm LE knew about these couches and told us yes they did), then to a random LADY who stopped and asked if she could have the couches - she took them, noticed they were damaged, so she took them to the dump - and now we have 2 random dudes from the power company that no one knows? And we are supposed to take BD's word for it? :floorlaugh: Naw.........to many stories about those couches for them to be innocent. We have guilty couches.

Exactly, I don't think there ever was a lady and I don't think the two dudes were from the power company. I think those couches were taken by LE (with or without Billie's knowledge) and Billie won't admit it for the life of her - it points back to her house. Actually, I hope more than I think. I've lost faith in just about everybody in this case, maybe I'm just hanging on to a faith in good LE out of desperation?

my_tee_mouse
02-10-2011, 12:26 PM
Exactly, I don't think there ever was a lady and I don't think the two dudes were from the power company. I think those couches were taken by LE (with or without Billie's knowledge) and Billie won't admit it for the life of her - it points back to her house. Actually, I hope more than I think. I've lost faith in just about everybody in this case, maybe I'm just hanging on to a faith in good LE out of desperation?
I'm with you in hoping that LE took the couch(es). I haven't lost faith in LE yet. Look what they have to work with! Key players who SHOULD be cooperating in any way they can to find this child are doing everything BUT!!!

We have a saying back home: "Just hide and watch." I'm pretty sure that's what LE is doing.

Whisperer
02-19-2011, 02:16 AM
Back in the day, I met some LE at a club that were dressed down, except for one. The others had, long hair, t-shirts, etc. I asked what they did and they told me they worked for the 'Power Company". I believed it too. Much later I found out they were working undercover Maybe Power Company is a term they use when they don't want anyone to know they're LE.

Tugela
02-19-2011, 02:50 AM
Ya, but BD didn't appear particularly concerned about what happened to it. If it held potentially incriminating evidence they would have been much more active in getting rid of it, not just leaving it sitting out there for whoever to take it.

Pondering Mind
02-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Ya, but BD didn't appear particularly concerned about what happened to it. If it held potentially incriminating evidence they would have been much more active in getting rid of it, not just leaving it sitting out there for whoever to take it.

Hmm..very true, as that would make sense. Personally, I just can't apply that logic here though because BD doesn't appear to be particularly concerned with what happened to Hailey either. So I guess we'll each have to make of that what we will...

lonetraveler
02-20-2011, 12:54 PM
Billie and Shawn were interviewed on 1/3 sitting on a Santa-Fe patterned couch. At some point soon thereafter, the couch in Billie's living room was a different one. Someone snapped a photo of the old living room couches sitting in a pick up truck at Billie's house, there was a CCPD parked at the curb. Many of us thought it was very odd to be redecorating right after your daughter disappeared, especially since the last person to see her was in the house and says she was watching tv in the living room.

A local said her friend arranged for the couches to be hauled to the dump because Billie was given new couches by her brother and the old ones were in bad shape. We asked if the old ones had been processed by LE. The local did not know and said that it turned out they weren't taken to the dump. Instead, a needy person in the neighborhood saw them sitting outside in the truck for days and asked if she could have them, and that's where they were taken. We asked the local to confirm LE had processed them completely; she called CCPD and told us that they confirmed they were in the house when LE searched it. Billie said last night that the couches were taken to the dump.

So, here we are. Wondering and hoping that the couches (or at least the cushions, as Wild Old Owl pointed out) were really seized as evidence. It's hinky to some of us that no one saw Hailey outside the house since Sunday 12/26, she's missing, and the couch that she often slept on and was supposedly last seen on is gone, and there's no straight answer about it.

more details:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125252&page=40

I totally agree with you about the couch. One would think that the couches would be in a room somewhere being totally processed by LE. If the couch was not checked for semen, blood, or any other bodily fluid then this is very shoddy work for LE. I think that getting rid of couches during a LE investigation is as suspicious as getting rid of vehicles immediately following a supposedly "kidnapping".:banghead:

yllek
04-04-2011, 02:11 AM
Now that we know much more about the evidence seized in the case, I feel confident the couch never made it to the dump nor the neighbor lady's house. I believe it was taken by LE and Billie either lied about it to save face, or she didn't know whomever actually hauled it off did so on request of LE. There's no way that LE was so oblivious that they did not question the couch being literally kicked to the curb more than a week into the investigation.

We now know for a fact that LE didn't seize Billie and Shawn's cell phones just to check the call logs in case Hailey used one of them on 12/27 (as Billie positioned it on Nancy Grace). They were looking for calls, electronic images, texts...etc, because a criminal investigation was underway and LE quickly determined that Billie and Shawn were deceptive in their stories. We also know that Billie painted the walls in her living room after the couch was removed. She talked about painting the walls in her 3/2 BTHN interview. Why all the changes to the living room? I have my theory. We also know that the computer at Shawn's mom's house was being analyzed by LE as early as 12/30 (and we now know what type of content they found). We also know that masks and a porn-riddled memory stick were seized from Billie's house the first week in January (per affidavit and Billie's 3/2 BTHN interview on the masks).

Now that we know what LE already knew when the couch was removed from Billie's house, imo, there's no way that it was taken off Billie's property (with a marked LE vehicle parked outside, no less) and taken to the CCity dump by private citizens doing Billie a favor (as Billie claimed in her first BTHN interview).

JMO. I hope the reason we've heard nada about the couch from LE is because it holds some important forensic evidence that is being held close to the vest until it can be connected to other evidence and a plausible theory to explain what happened to sweet Hailey.

swedie
04-04-2011, 03:31 AM
WHAT?!!! No one told me there was a couch thread:maddening:Now I'm reallly disappointed lol.

The thing is BD's brother may have had to order his new couch. I do not know what it is like in the US, but here in Canada, seems like anymore when you buy new furniture, it has to be ordered unless it's a clearance sale or scratch and dent. Furniture orders generally take 4-8 weeks, so it was quite possible BD's brother had ordered his new furni some time before HD went missing. The adoption of his old couch may also have been planned long before HD went missing. So of course this all looks very suspicious indeed. If that was the case, why the heck didn't BD fill us in on that? Well I think we all know the answer to that. It's because she speaks half truths, lies or gives very vague answers.

In one picture posted I saw HD sitting on THE couch. She was quite young 3 or 4. (So that couch is more then likely about 10 years old or older) I could not help but notice there was a huge brownish stain on the cushion. Now when I go back and try to find picture, I found it here in this link, first picture but it has been cropped. Did anyone else notice this or have the full picture. I swear I saw it as I couldn't help but to think, ew. So with that being said, Lord knows what they might find on that couch. Deviant sex acts, BD and SA's home movies/pictures. Oh my head hurts. I can only imagine the shape it was in after 2 little ones living all over it, kwim. So maybe the couch thing is just a coincidence. :waitasec:

Personally I don't think the couch is important in this case. I would hope and pray LE have better evidence like her sheet or bedding. JMHO

http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=354576

Tugela
04-04-2011, 04:48 AM
JMO. I hope the reason we've heard nada about the couch from LE is because it holds some important forensic evidence that is being held close to the vest until it can be connected to other evidence and a plausible theory to explain what happened to sweet Hailey.

I doubt the couch holds any evidence that could be discerned, since everyone lived there (presumably it was still there when CD lived there as well) and consequently everyone would have left traces of themselves on it.

Unless there was some huge blood stain on it, in which case they would have taken much more care in getting rid of it. Plus, if that was the case, LE would be using that to get additional search warrants and we would know all about it.

tehcloser
04-04-2011, 09:43 AM
I think the couch may have turned up in some pictures..........

passionflower
04-04-2011, 10:49 AM
I think the couch may have turned up in some pictures..........

This cold explain the painting and redecorating Hailey's room and livingroom.
Make it allot harder to prove the pics (porn?) came from those rooms.

Truthwillsetufree
04-04-2011, 10:54 AM
This cold explain the painting and redecorating Hailey's room and livingroom.
Make it allot harder to prove the pics (porn?) came from those rooms.

FWIW, I don't think it would be that difficult to tell if those rooms were in fact in some of the CP pics. There has been how many media interviews in the various rooms of BD's house prior to her painting? Those interviews are all on tape and much more lengthy (raw footage) than what the public generally gets to see on the news.

Soulmagent
04-04-2011, 11:20 AM
FWIW, I don't think it would be that difficult to tell if those rooms were in fact in some of the CP pics. There has been how many media interviews in the various rooms of BD's house prior to her painting? Those interviews are all on tape and much more lengthy (raw footage) than what the public generally gets to see on the news.

Which is why I do not believe the house was a scene of anything known to Billie.

She went on national TV, local news allowed people in her home and let them take photo's. I do not believe she would have done any of that is she was aware the house was a scene of a crime. Also the hardwood floors in Haileys room are worn in photos they would quickly absorb blood and it would not be able to be removed from the floors. I am of the thought that nothing happened to Hailey in the house. If LE had any evidence of a death at all (which i dont believe) that house would have been torn apart.

I lived in house that once was the scene of a murder suicide in 1975 or about, and in 1992 you could still see blood in the hard wood. Years of scubbing, soaking ,bleaching had not rid the wood of it.

My moms hardwood floors have my blood on them from a cut and we clean that up instantly so it would not stain ,it still stained.

CN2Souls
04-04-2011, 01:39 PM
Which is why I do not believe the house was a scene of anything known to Billie.

She went on national TV, local news allowed people in her home and let them take photo's. I do not believe she would have done any of that is she was aware the house was a scene of a crime. Also the hardwood floors in Haileys room are worn in photos they would quickly absorb blood and it would not be able to be removed from the floors. I am of the thought that nothing happened to Hailey in the house. If LE had any evidence of a death at all (which i dont believe) that house would have been torn apart.

I lived in house that once was the scene of a murder suicide in 1975 or about, and in 1992 you could still see blood in the hard wood. Years of scubbing, soaking ,bleaching had not rid the wood of it.

My moms hardwood floors have my blood on them from a cut and we clean that up instantly so it would not stain ,it still stained.

People can die without shedding one drop of blood. Strangulation and suffocation to name a few.

Quiche
04-04-2011, 02:08 PM
Sorry, but I'm not thinkin' blood when it comes to those couch cushions. :mad:

swedie
04-04-2011, 05:31 PM
Sorry, but I'm not thinkin' blood when it comes to those couch cushions. :mad:

I really wasn't either Quiche. But if it held semen from SA, it wouldn't be proof enough to link to HD being sexually assaulted there unless they also found her DNA (vaginal fluid) and there was probably lotsa that. I wonder if they somehow have HD's DNA? Her mother's DNA would somewhat match hers. So BD's bodily fluids could also maybe be found in the material. There could be DNA from all of them including other people who were in the house.

Other then what Soul posted regarding pictures, I don't think the couch is that important to have as evidence. LE may have considered that from very early on and decided it wasn't as valuable as evidence, compared to what they may have.

If you consider all the cases like this one and how LE have handled these, would we think LE did a great job of collecting evidence? Just curious. :waitasec: With the TS case here in Canada, we do not know what evidence LE have and there has been no trial yet, but from the little bit that did come out in the media, I believe they did a fabulous job and where very dedicated. JMHO

scorekeeper
04-04-2011, 06:04 PM
If LE thought there was "evidence" on/in the couch, why wouldn't they have taken it during one of their searches? I can't see them "sneaking" around to get the couch.

They took the sheets from Hailey's bed.
JMO

Adrienne37
04-04-2011, 07:16 PM
From the way it sounded, they wouldn't have had to sneak very much to get the couch since it supposedly sat in the back of a truck for a day or 2 IIRC.



~jmo~

tehcloser
04-04-2011, 08:40 PM
You would think they would have taken it. (LE) But the couch and rumors of the couch just put a neon sign on it that says "HEY!!!! Look at me!!!!" If there was nothing to the couch, one story (the simple truth) would have been enough. As it is we have 68796094.

Nana46
04-04-2011, 09:11 PM
You would think they would have taken it. (LE) But the couch and rumors of the couch just put a neon sign on it that says "HEY!!!! Look at me!!!!" If there was nothing to the couch, one story (the simple truth) would have been enough. As it is we have 68796094.

What Teh said.....totally........freaking couch. I dream about this stupid couch,lol.:banghead:

gypsyblue
04-04-2011, 10:11 PM
I definately think the couch was in the photos.... sigh

Pink Panther
04-04-2011, 11:06 PM
LE seems to have missed the boat on the couch. Sadly, I think that is the case. We have photos of it in SA's truck with the police cruiser in front of it. The defence will certainly have a field day with this...

Makes me sad that no one from LE had their wits about them right at the moment when they should have!

I'm quickly and steadily losing faith in LE or whoever else (FBI and who-hoo Texas Rangers) to be able to solve this case. We are all watching from "outside" and like the Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony cases it's all just too obvious for belief!

moo

Pink Panther
04-04-2011, 11:10 PM
You would think they would have taken it. (LE) But the couch and rumors of the couch just put a neon sign on it that says "HEY!!!! Look at me!!!!" If there was nothing to the couch, one story (the simple truth) would have been enough. As it is we have 68796094.
Yep. Sad isn't it? I don't think that they got the couch and am starting to think that they didn't "catch" much else either. Makes me mad because it isn't a question of manpower. It's a question of TRAINED brains. I don't see evidence of this anywhere in this investigation.

moo

yllek
04-05-2011, 12:55 AM
I, like others, am mostly suspicious that the couch, the walls, the poster that was seized from Billie's bedroom, the masks, the xbox... and other confiscated objects may be featured in some incriminating images (and the xbox used to view said images).

It could be that getting the new couches just happened to coincide with Hailey going MISSING. But, that in itself is just as incriminating, imo. If your MISSING child had slept on that couch for years before going MISSING, would you part with it right after she went MISSING if you loved your daughter, wanted her home, and wanted to be reminded of her existence in the home as you desperately prayed for her return? I don't know of anyone who would. Most people would say eff the new couch, Hailey's couch stays! Most brothers would not bother their sister about bringing a hand me down couch over to her house within days of her child (his own niece) going MISSING. It ain't right, I tell ya...

I think LE may have taken the cushions first for processing (like WOO said months ago), then Billie's brother came to the rescue with a new sofa for her to grieve upon, and that's when the couch frames were moved and the many tales of the wandering couch began. We have heard 3 entirely different stories about where the couches ended up and who took them. If it was an innocent couch swap, no need for the lies.

Could be that LE didn't care much about the couch because they are foolish or because it is truly insignificant. If LE didn't take it, could also be that they wanted to see what Billie and company would do with the couch once LE saw it was hauled outside. Who would help her get rid of it? Where would they take it? LE was watching at this point; this was after electronics were seized and the NYE party. If I was LE, I would sure want to know who would offer to help Billie and Shawn transport and dispose of something they no longer wanted. At this point, LE had all kinds of incriminating information on the mother and her boyfriend.

The question of "why would Billie go on tv and allow her house to be filmed if her house was a crime scene?" is a legitimate one. Why would she bother redecorating if LE had seen the house and likely has some photos of it in its original state? - also a good question. Good legitimate questions if we were talking about anyone other than Billie Dunn, imo. Why would Billie go on Nancy Grace and tell the country that Shawn came home from work at 3:00 on 12/27, knowing that the lie would be revealed? Why would Billie Dunn say she was done with Shawn Adkins and all of the eyewitnesses who claimed otherwise were slanderous, only to then admit they were "hanging out" and "comforting each other"? Why would Billie Dunn lie to police and say that Shawn Adkins wasn't in her house and invite them to search it, knowing Shawn was indeed in the house?... Why would Billie Dunn take out a No Trespass Order on someone and then sneak out to meet with him the very next day? Why did Casey Anthony take LE on a tour of the Universal Studios offices? Some people live paycheck to paycheck, doing whatever it takes to get by without the luxury of worrying too much about future finances. Other, less admirable people, live lie to lie, without worrying too much about the truth coming out; lying and cheating is their currency. There's always another lie to cover the last one. They are smart and everyone else is slanderous in expressing their idiotic opinions...

Billie thinks if she gets rid of things and changes things up then what was originally there will be gone and forgotten; end of story, imo... She thinks everyone else will think like she does and forget too. That scares me for Hailey. She is gone; what words or actions has her mother expressed that leads us to believe she would do anything to have her child back (either one of her children, for that matter)?

I believe LE knows that the living room was the scene of a crime (a sex crime, and certainly drug-related crimes) and I believe Shawn videotaped some rancid acts wherever he went. I would be shocked if Billie's house wasn't the scene of some nasty home made movies (aside from just the one she admitted to, after LE saw it). JMO, but Billie Dunn didn't get an itch to upgrade furniture and paint walls because she was so distraught, nor is she the Martha Stewart type, imo. Change of scenery...

P.s. IIRC, the only people that claim the couches were sitting outside in the truck for days (while LE was in and out of the house) are Billie and her internet posting friends. I have seen one photo - not different ones with different date stamps. It might be true that the couch was overlooked and sat their right under LE's noses for days on end, but I'm not taking it as fact considering the sources...

All JMO and I know I need to get off this dang couch - I wish it would quit nagging at me!:crazy:

CN2Souls
04-05-2011, 08:41 AM
:truce:

Please don't throw things at me!

BUT

If you watch this video,
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086


You will see that BD's House has many couches inside of it,

Also after watching ALL of BD's :headache: interviews,

I seem to have a count of over 4 couches that BD has....:banghead:

Granted the video is old BUT, as you can see she decorates with couches on every wall.
and it looks like 2 living rooms...

I sure hope LE has gotten evidence from all of these couches...

scorekeeper
04-05-2011, 08:56 AM
:truce:

Please don't throw things at me!

BUT

If you watch this video,
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086


You will see that BD's House has many couches inside of it,

Also after watching ALL of BD's :headache: interviews,

I seem to have a count of over 4 couches that BD has....:banghead:

Granted the video is old BUT, as you can see she decorates with couches on every wall.
and it looks like 2 living rooms...

I sure hope LE has gotten evidence from all of these couches...

Oh, Lordy, Lordy.......won't throw anything at you that will hurt!!:pillowfight:
:floorlaugh:

But that means there was a couch for each person..........:waitasec: I don't recall a couch being listed as an item removed....but then again LE hasn't told us everything. :banghead:

Jacie Estes
04-05-2011, 12:21 PM
:truce:

Please don't throw things at me!

BUT

If you watch this video,
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086


You will see that BD's House has many couches inside of it,

Also after watching ALL of BD's :headache: interviews,
I seem to have a count of over 4 couches that BD has....:banghead:

Granted the video is old BUT, as you can see she decorates with couches on every wall.
and it looks like 2 living rooms...

I sure hope LE has gotten evidence from all of these couches...

BBM You're a brave person. :) I truly hope that the time stamp is wrong and that video wasn't taken at 3something in the a.m.

Soulmagent
04-05-2011, 10:39 PM
:truce:

Please don't throw things at me!

BUT

If you watch this video,
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086


You will see that BD's House has many couches inside of it,

Also after watching ALL of BD's :headache: interviews,

I seem to have a count of over 4 couches that BD has....:banghead:

Granted the video is old BUT, as you can see she decorates with couches on every wall.
and it looks like 2 living rooms...

I sure hope LE has gotten evidence from all of these couches...

OFF topic relating to this video.

At a point in this video arround 3:10 ,It appears to me Billie cannot say a word and switches that word for another word. Am I reading to much into it? I am not implying anything. I just asking if anyone thinks she sounded odd right then.

Soulmagent
04-05-2011, 11:11 PM
i TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU ELS.. i COULD DEFINITELY SEE THEM MOVING IN ANOTHER COUCH WHEN sa MOVED INTO THE HOME{Especially given that as CN stated that she counted BD as having 4 couches in that home}..So..I'd say it is quite possibly the same couch in both photos..

My question is this the same couch that was gotten rid of?{I never saw the pic of couches in front of the home}..and was it couches? or a couch that was gotten rid of?

TIA..

Yes that was the couch on back of the truck in the photo's.

grandmaj
04-05-2011, 11:24 PM
We can't do screen shots... just link to pictures please. Copyright. :)

hollyblue
04-06-2011, 02:07 AM
HEY MEDIA......................ask LE about the couches!!!!!!!!!!!!

Curious Me
04-06-2011, 03:04 AM
This cold explain the painting and redecorating Hailey's room and livingroom.
Make it allot harder to prove the pics (porn?) came from those rooms.

BBM Such good thinking, passionflower.

swedie
04-06-2011, 03:28 AM
I did find the picture that I spoke of in another post, with the big brown stain on it. I thought it was the couch BD had hauled away, but it's not, it's another couch with similar fabric. I had mentioned that yes the couch was probably in rough shape and that's why BD took her brothers old one. Seems BD has had her share of couches. I don't know how to share photos other then to make them attachments. If you click on the picture, it will enlarge it for you. HTH.

CN2Souls
04-06-2011, 07:30 AM
Anyone else also notice the layout of the house, where each couch was and where Hailey's room was?

I took this video along with the details of where each room was from the search warrant affidavit and it looks like two living rooms with several couches in both....:waitasec:


Video
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086 (http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086)

Affidavit:

Items Taken from Home on Chestnut
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/images...fidavit%20.PDF (http://bigcountryhomepage.com/images/Multi_Media/bigcountryhomepage/nxd_media/dox/pdf/2011_01/Affidavit%20.PDF)

Search of Car / home
http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0113_001_.pdf (http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0113_001_.pdf)

Search of Phone
http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0117_001_.pdf (http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0117_001_.pdf)

els
04-06-2011, 12:27 PM
sorry if i did bad on the photo - one was from a Big ountry news video screen cap and the other was from a public facebook album. because the album has children in the photo i just edited it to take them out. i will link from now on.

swedie
04-06-2011, 02:04 PM
We can't do screen shots... just link to pictures please. Copyright. :)

Gram, I don't recall where I got the picture of HD on the couch, I think it may have been in the HFH.org site. I don't know how to remove a post so if posting this picture is not allowed, please remove for me. Thank you!

Oriah
04-06-2011, 02:04 PM
CN2Souls, I've stared at the layout of the house... mostly trying to figure out the door and window issue.
From the affadavit, I get the SW corner of residence was master bedroom. So front of home+ right side of room (or left if entering from inside the home= bedroom on other side...living room front of residence, with kitchen/other living area to the rear of front living room?


Anyone else also notice the layout of the house, where each couch was and where Hailey's room was?

I took this video along with the details of where each room was from the search warrant affidavit and it looks like two living rooms with several couches in both....:waitasec:


Video
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086 (http://bigcountryhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=343086)

Affidavit:

Items Taken from Home on Chestnut
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/images...fidavit%20.PDF (http://bigcountryhomepage.com/images/Multi_Media/bigcountryhomepage/nxd_media/dox/pdf/2011_01/Affidavit%20.PDF)

Search of Car / home
http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0113_001_.pdf (http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0113_001_.pdf)

Search of Phone
http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0117_001_.pdf (http://media.reporternews.com/media/.../0117_001_.pdf)

Pink Panther
04-08-2011, 11:09 PM
I think that the picture of the couch in SA's truck with the LE cruiser parked on the side of the road will come back to haunt the prosecution ten-fold. It makes me sad but I'm convinced that they did not take the couch or cushions or anything related to it for forensic investigation.

moo

lieber32
04-09-2011, 08:38 AM
I thought I read someone on this case that they searched the dumpster. I remember thinking why are they searching dumpster do they think her body was disposed there. Then after reading this thread it made more sense if the couch did in fact end up in the dumpster. If they feel the sofa contained evidence then them going to the dumpster to retrieve it fits. Can't remember where I read they searched dumpster. :banghead:

peeples
04-09-2011, 10:47 AM
Remember we had the sister of the guy who drove the trash truck of CC on here... she said they called the police and the police let the truck sit for several days and then finally once her brother was feeling better he went ahead and dumped the truck because no one showed up to search the BD trash and her brother wasn't asked to hold onto the trash either....
that whole sequence just seems weird.....

Why WOULDN"T LE want their trash.......
anyway that is something that has always stuck with me

Knox
04-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I think that the picture of the couch in SA's truck with the LE cruiser parked on the side of the road will come back to haunt the prosecution ten-fold. It makes me sad but I'm convinced that they did not take the couch or cushions or anything related to it for forensic investigation.

moo

I agree and not only the sofa, but the trash from Billie's house and Shawn's Mother and Grandmother's houses which was put out at the curb. I suspect that evidence could have been thrown away at any or all of those locations.

scorekeeper
04-09-2011, 01:31 PM
I agree and not only the sofa, but the trash from Billie's house and Shawn's Mother and Grandmother's houses which was put out at the curb. I suspect that evidence could have been thrown away at any or all of those locations.

Didn't LE search the landfill(s)? I'm not sure which garbage went to which landfill. Was it better to search the landfill(s) than to get a search warrant for the trash bags put out on the curb? The search warrants would have had to had a specific reason for the search......and perhaps LE didn't want to give specific case information at that time...

JMO

Quiche
04-09-2011, 01:41 PM
Remember we had the sister of the guy who drove the trash truck of CC on here... she said they called the police and the police let the truck sit for several days and then finally once her brother was feeling better he went ahead and dumped the truck because no one showed up to search the BD trash and her brother wasn't asked to hold onto the trash either....
that whole sequence just seems weird.....

Why WOULDN"T LE want their trash.......
anyway that is something that has always stuck with me

Imo they bumbled around the first week, treating Hailey like a runaway. Obviously they felt something was missing given all the dump searches that soon followed. Was it the couch, Hailey herself, computer drives, camera equipment? Did they find anything?

I think they took Hailey's bed sheet for scent for the dogs. A lot of missteps are made when assuming a child has runaway. jmo

Knox
04-09-2011, 01:52 PM
Scorekeeper, yes they did search several Landfills. We don't know what they were looking for, nor what they found. I guess my post is written from a viewpoint of what we know now vs. what LE knew at the beginning of the case. More or less, I am just lamenting the possible loss of evidence, which could have been placed in a trash can at any one of the three houses he was known to have been at on Monday, moo. Obviously it would be easier to find potential evidence in the trash can rather than at the landfill, that's my point.

I truly feel that both BD and SA never dreamed they would be looked at or considered POI's in Hailey's disappearance. Most of their stories/explanations/alibi's were formulated as case details were disclosed.

scorekeeper
04-09-2011, 02:13 PM
Scorekeeper, yes they did search several Landfills. We don't know what they were looking for, nor what they found. I guess my post is written from a viewpoint of what we know now vs. what LE knew at the beginning of the case. More or less, I am just lamenting the possible loss of evidence, which could have been placed in a trash can at any one of the three houses he was known to have been at on Monday, moo. Obviously it would be easier to find potential evidence in the trash can rather than at the landfill, that's my point.

I truly feel that both BD and SA never dreamed they would be looked at or considered POI's in Hailey's disappearance. Most of their stories/explanations/alibi's were formulated as case details were disclosed.

Yes, it would have been "easier to find potential evidence" if LE had not treated this as a runaway during the first hours. Once LE found out that Hailey did not take any of her personal items with her for her overnight, none the less, never made it there.....You are so right with BJD and SA never "dreaming" that they would be POIs. I am sure they pressed LE with the "runaway" theory while they possibly destroyed evidence (or tried to).

JMO

Knox
04-09-2011, 02:58 PM
Thinking back to the beginning. Did Billie say Hailey was not a runaway from the get-go? OT for this thread so I will take my thoughts to another.

scorekeeper
04-09-2011, 03:14 PM
Thinking back to the beginning. Did Billie say Hailey was not a runaway from the get-go? OT for this thread so I will take my thoughts to another.

My bad :banghead:

You are right.....she was treated as a "missing person" at first.

Ellebelle
04-09-2011, 09:31 PM
In our town once you put your trash to the curb it doesn't belong to you anymore.

Pink Panther
04-09-2011, 09:49 PM
HEY MEDIA......................ask LE about the couches!!!!!!!!!!!!
Er. There ain't no "media" out there that understands your request. Unfortunately, they can barely string a sentence together.

moo

Pink Panther
04-09-2011, 09:51 PM
Remember we had the sister of the guy who drove the trash truck of CC on here... she said they called the police and the police let the truck sit for several days and then finally once her brother was feeling better he went ahead and dumped the truck because no one showed up to search the BD trash and her brother wasn't asked to hold onto the trash either....
that whole sequence just seems weird.....

Why WOULDN"T LE want their trash.......
anyway that is something that has always stuck with me
I agree. WT hay were they thinking? Or not?

(Thinking, I mean.)

:crazy:

TexasGiGi
04-10-2011, 01:51 AM
Yes, that was me Peeples. I don't think my brother even knew about HD being missing until LE contacted him on the Sunday after she was reported missing. He kept it until Wednesday because he wasn't sure what to do with it. Then the FBI talked to him the next Sunday and went to his workplace on Monday. He and his co-workers did look through what was dumped from his truck and didn't see anything they thought was suspicious. He had Monday and part of Tuesday's garbage in his truck, BD's house is on the Wed. schedule so someone else picked up hers that week. I had to look back and refresh my memory because I've slept a few times since he told me all of that lol.

swedie
04-10-2011, 02:35 AM
Imo they bumbled around the first week, treating Hailey like a runaway. Obviously they felt something was missing given all the dump searches that soon followed. Was it the couch, Hailey herself, computer drives, camera equipment? Did they find anything?

I think they took Hailey's bed sheet for scent for the dogs. A lot of missteps are made when assuming a child has runaway. jmo

And I could see why they would think HD was a run away. I can still hear that officer's comment to the dispatcher on Valentines' last February. "Not them again" (something along that line). I am really getting a clearer picture that LE are very familiar with this whole bunch of peeps.

I certainly would not blame HD is she ran away. This whole case and most of the people in it are disturbing, crude, law breaking, pill billies, pot heads and trashy. Sorry I had to say it and I am sure 99.9 percent of you feel the same way. I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but I am hugely perturbed and disturbed at how these people are carrying on in the public's eye. I am feeling it's not all about Hailey. Poor sweet Hailey :( I am praying that DD is not privy to most of this trash that has been going on since his baby sis disappeared. I think he was exposed to too much prior, but it's never to late.

hollyblue
04-10-2011, 05:52 AM
In our town once you put your trash to the curb it doesn't belong to you anymore.

Yep. How many times have you heard of LE or the FBI picking up garbage from the curb....even pretending to be collectors themselves.

Maybe that's what SA could have been doing with the trip to Gma's and she wasn't home, getting rid of any evidence.

As far as HD being a runaway, I think BD & CD were adamant from the beginning that she was abducted....and never viewed her as a runaway.

Hatch
04-11-2011, 12:18 PM
IMO Perhaps the whole family knows the Truth behind Hailey's disappearance, and they banded together to cover BD's Asp ! Ok ! We have to get rid of the couch/check, now we have to paint the walls/check, let's get rid of all things relating to Hailey /check , now let's just bide out time and maybe this will die down/check. After all BD is family and families stick together, and we need SA to supply our needs so we can cope with this cover up ! Sounds doable to me !! IMO

peeples
04-11-2011, 12:35 PM
Yes, that was me Peeples. I don't think my brother even knew about HD being missing until LE contacted him on the Sunday after she was reported missing. He kept it until Wednesday because he wasn't sure what to do with it. Then the FBI talked to him the next Sunday and went to his workplace on Monday. He and his co-workers did look through what was dumped from his truck and didn't see anything they thought was suspicious. He had Monday and part of Tuesday's garbage in his truck, BD's house is on the Wed. schedule so someone else picked up hers that week. I had to look back and refresh my memory because I've slept a few times since he told me all of that lol.

Ohh YAY you're still here!!!! LOL
Thanks for refreshing my memory too, i also couldn't remember the whole sequence..

Knox
04-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Yep. How many times have you heard of LE or the FBI picking up garbage from the curb....even pretending to be collectors themselves.

Maybe that's what SA could have been doing with the trip to Gma's and she wasn't home, getting rid of any evidence.

As far as HD being a runaway, I think BD & CD were adamant from the beginning that she was abducted....and never viewed her as a runaway.

I'm not including Clint in this comment, just Billie.

Runaway children might come home. Not all, but many abducted children do not. Billie knew Hailey was not going to come home. When I look back to early statements (Nancy Grace Vintage) it's just so clear what she was doing.

Kimster
03-21-2012, 06:29 PM
:bump: for reference



On the radio show, Billie said that she and Shawn had planned this move to where they live now a long time ago, before Hailey went missing.

If that's so, why spend the money on the paint and paint that room??? They were living on a shoestring, so they said. Paint isn't cheap and they were planning on moving anyway!

It isn't logical to me. :moo: