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Varye
02-10-2011, 01:07 PM
Police: A punishment from his mom for shoplifting

Updated: Thursday, 10 Feb 2011, 11:13 AM EST
Published : Thursday, 10 Feb 2011, 11:13 AM EST

BERRIEN SPRINGS, Mich. (WOOD) - A teenager had been handcuffed to a chair and confined to a room in his home the past three weeks -- a punishment from his mother for shoplifting, police said.

more at link

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/sw_mich/handcuffed-teen-confined-to-room

Kat
02-10-2011, 01:21 PM
The comments on that article make my head hurt.

Good grief.

When is it ever okay to handcuff anyone to a piece of furniture for hours much less weeks?

This is so above and beyond I can't even comment right now. Ugh.

all JMHO.

IWannaKnow
02-14-2011, 11:13 AM
http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20110211/News01/102110331/-1/googleNews
Mother accused of handcuffing son to chair
Boy told police he was put in room after shoplifting arrest.

By JOHN PAUL
WSBT-TV Reporter
February 11. 2011 6:59AM

According to a Berrien Springs-Oronoko Township Police release the boy told police he had been handcuffed to a kitchen chair after he was arrested three weeks ago for shoplifting. As punishment, his mother confined him to a 6-foot by 4-foot room with only a Bible and told him to think about what he'd done.

Roughly two weeks ago, when the teen's mother found out he'd somehow gotten an MP3 player, he was then handcuffed to a chair in his room from 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. Meals were brought to him. At bedtime, the teen was handcuffed to a desk leg, the report said.

The mother provided the teen with bottled water and a bell to ring if he needed to go to the bathroom. He was allowed outside only to shovel snow.

Seemingly the handcuffs didn't come into play until he broke the rule she set up for punishment. He spent one week in the room, supposedly reading the Bible and thinking about his crime, when he got smart and smuggled a MP3 player into the room and the mom went off. He was being fed, given water, taken to the restroom, he slept in his bed-not the floor, there was a window in the room, he had a bell to call her if he needed her.....

Sounds to me like she was trying to give him a taste of what he will be in for if he does not change his ways.....

ziggy
02-14-2011, 03:51 PM
I don't see the problem exactly. Teens live without any fear whatsoever from their parents as nothing can be done to them that equals punishment anymore. As long as he was fed and the only punishment was confinement, he had a lesson to learn because that is where his life was headed in prison if he kept up his theiving ways.

tlcya
02-14-2011, 04:24 PM
To me this sounds like a fed up mom trying to impress upon her son, who seems to be headed down a bad path, that he really needs to rethink where he is headed. While I don't think I might have gone quite that far, the child was not beaten, neglected, harmed, etc.

I am not sure how long this "grounding" was supposed to last, but seriously, we see a lot more situations that seem to be more clearly abusive and dangerous, even life threatening to children every day that do not get the sort of reaction needed to protect kids. I think this one may be much ado about (well not nothing, but) a very small something, all things considered.

ETA it feels wrong to me, but I can also see where a mother of a teenage son, trying to instill values might reach a point where physically restraining him to enforce a grounding might be the only way she sees to enforce the punishment. Teenage boys can often go through a phase where they try to "throw their weight around" with mom. Several single moms I know right now are struggling with how to discipline their teen sons, who have begun attempting to physcially intimidate their moms.

Nova
02-14-2011, 05:23 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't think even prisons are allowed to chain someone in one place for 10 to 12 hours at a time.

For the sake of argument, I will assume this mother wasn't a sadist, she was just at her wit's end with a growing son and didn't know what else to do.

Unfortunately, however, that's a place lots of us reach with our kids at some point and we don't get to torture them because we've run out of creative punishments. And if that means they eventually screw up so badly they attract attention from the authorities, well, then they do.

And frankly, once you get to the point where you chain up your kid with a Bible, you've pretty much already lost the battle, IMHO.

tlcya
02-14-2011, 06:07 PM
I hear ya Nova, as I said, wouldn't be an option I woud consider, just saying, these threads are full of cases where CPS was called repeatedly about physical abuse, starvation, etc and they turn a blind eye. In this case they jumped right in there. I wish things were more level as regards reaction of authorities from case to case rather than such differing responses to abuse/neglect calls. I hope this mother is being monitored and given access to some resources that will help her find more socially acceptable ways to keep this kid on the straight and narrow.

kgeaux
02-14-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm a little surprised at how many people seem to feel that the "motivation" on the part of the mother makes a difference in judging her actions.

It is NOT legal to handcuff a teenager! Whether she meant well or not, this woman committed a crime. When a parent gets to her wits end, there are agencies she can call for help, she doesn't need to resort to criminal activity!!

I can just about guarantee this woman that the Bible is going to have very, very negative connotations for her son from now on.

Nova
02-14-2011, 06:53 PM
I'm a little surprised at how many people seem to feel that the "motivation" on the part of the mother makes a difference in judging her actions.

It is NOT legal to handcuff a teenager! Whether she meant well or not, this woman committed a crime. When a parent gets to her wits end, there are agencies she can call for help, she doesn't need to resort to criminal activity!!

I can just about guarantee this woman that the Bible is going to have very, very negative connotations for her son from now on.

Great point, that last one, kgeaux! And great post.

I don't really know anything about the mother, but I think it's a more interesting issue if we assume her intentions were good. If she's just abusing her kid for kicks, then I assume we'll all agree she's in the wrong.

Assuming the best of the mother, however, I'm still with you. Parents do not get to handcuff teens to furniture.

Nova
02-14-2011, 06:55 PM
I hear ya Nova, as I said, wouldn't be an option I woud consider, just saying, these threads are full of cases where CPS was called repeatedly about physical abuse, starvation, etc and they turn a blind eye. In this case they jumped right in there. I wish things were more level as regards reaction of authorities from case to case rather than such differing responses to abuse/neglect calls. I hope this mother is being monitored and given access to some resources that will help her find more socially acceptable ways to keep this kid on the straight and narrow.

I don't know why the response was so sure in this case. Maybe it's the jurisdiction, or maybe it's that the issue is more clear cut. "Neglect" and "spanking" may require more subjective judgment calls.

LadyL
02-14-2011, 08:02 PM
did she handcuff him while he was outside shoveling snow?

IWannaKnow
02-15-2011, 11:19 AM
http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20110215/News01/110219757/-1/googleNews

No charges in handcuffing
Prosecutor recommends action in family court instead.

By TOM MOOR
Tribune Staff Writer

In a news release Monday, Berrien County Prosecutor Art Cotter said that after interviews with the boy, along with his parents’ openness to counseling, he did not believe it to be in the best interest of the family to pursue charges.

The boy, his mother and his sister moved to Berrien Springs last summer, while their father remained in Colorado to finish work. The boy was pulled from school by his mother and home-schooled after the shoplifting offense.

Prosecutors said the teenager was not injured and was able to move during the day by picking up the chair, and could have left the house if needed. At night he was unable to move as he was handcuffed to the desk.

The parents reportedly told the prosecutor they used poor judgment by using the handcuffs and that their actions - although misguided - arose out of a genuine concern for their son’s life, health, safety and threats to run away.

Nova
02-15-2011, 12:44 PM
I'm good with that decision. I don't see what would be served by sending the mother to prison.

IWannaKnow
02-15-2011, 12:46 PM
It is NOT legal to handcuff a teenager! Whether she meant well or not, this woman committed a crime. When a parent gets to her wits end, there are agencies she can call for help, she doesn't need to resort to criminal activity!!

I can just about guarantee this woman that the Bible is going to have very, very negative connotations for her son from now on.


While I understand the point you are making, with all due respect there are multiple threads on this board of parents calling those agencies to which you refer only to be told there is nothing they can do until the individual harms themself or someone else. I do not see how that was going to help this woman in this situation. Everyone agrees that she went too far but I appreciate that she was at least trying, as misguided as her attempt was - the child was not harmed, he even said so himself. There are many more threads on this board of *parents* who simply cannot be bothered to even attempt to correct their offspring's behavior.....:banghead:

As far as the Bible having negative connotations for him after this, I would sincerely hope that shoplifting would have worse connotations. I would be willing to bet he was not a heavy Bible reader before this incident, so I doubt he was significantly harmed by this; Not like it ruined something he otherwise enjoyed.

ThoughtFox
02-15-2011, 12:54 PM
They may not have pressed charges but that doesn't make this right in any moral sense I can think of. :banghead:

Kids have a right not to be handcuffed and held prisoner, for heaven's sake. If he had been a younger boy then people would be screaming "abuse!" And I feel sorry for this child that the authorities decided he should go right back home to a nuthouse. JMOO

Having a Bible in the room to make the point that it was done out of kindness shouldn't give this any credence in a court of law.

I find it hard to believe there's even a debate about this. Parent's don't "own" their children. They can't use whatever punishment comes to mind when it's against the law.

"Trying" is one thing ~ we all have our moments with teenagers when we want to save them from themselves and wish we could lock them in their rooms. But it doesn't work.

I feel sorry for these parents. I think this boy will probably leave home as quickly as he can as soon as he turns 18. That is, if he doesn't have mental problems from being abused.

God help me, between this story and the one about the mother shooting her teenagers for talking back, it makes me wonder what the hell is going on in this country. :twocents:

Kat
02-15-2011, 01:44 PM
I'm good with that decision. I don't see what would be served by sending the mother to prison.

I agree too. I do hope that some family counseling is sought IMHO.


__________________________
Not directed at Nova but brought to the thread for consideration.


http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/3039098/
Updated: June 14, 2008
Teen died, had been tied to a tree.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/teen-locked-closet-years
September 28, 2009 at 01:49 pm

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-6197961-504083.html
February 11, 2010 1:57 PM

http://thesouthern.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_03517f96-3d31-11df-84ff-001cc4c002e0.html
March 31, 2010 8:50 pm

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-06-07/news/os-kissimmee-teen-locked-up-dad-arres20100607_1_records-show-police-records-state
June 07, 2010

No it is never okay to imprison another human being even if that human being is your child. IMHO. Never.

IMHO I can't give her props for trying. What she did was wrong and illegal and she got a pass this time. Let's hope she learns some parenting skills. Let's hope we don't read about this child being murdered by his mother because she can't get help in mothering and resorts to another outlandish form of discipline.

Good grief---locking up a child. What is this world coming to?

all JMHO.

kgeaux
02-15-2011, 06:37 PM
While I understand the point you are making, with all due respect there are multiple threads on this board of parents calling those agencies to which you refer only to be told there is nothing they can do until the individual harms themself or someone else. I do not see how that was going to help this woman in this situation. Everyone agrees that she went too far but I appreciate that she was at least trying, as misguided as her attempt was - the child was not harmed, he even said so himself. There are many more threads on this board of *parents* who simply cannot be bothered to even attempt to correct their offspring's behavior.....:banghead:

As far as the Bible having negative connotations for him after this, I would sincerely hope that shoplifting would have worse connotations. I would be willing to bet he was not a heavy Bible reader before this incident, so I doubt he was significantly harmed by this; Not like it ruined something he otherwise enjoyed.

Well, I've been alive less than 60 years, so it's possible I just haven't lived long enough, but in my mind, two wrongs never make a right. The teen did wrong by shoplifting.....so to teach him not to be a criminal, Mom stoops to criminal behavior? She may have meant well, in fact, I am convinced she DID mean well, but what she did was wrong on so many levels. Consider:

What does a young person LEARN from being handcuffed to a chair and desk and held prisoner? It's wrong if I steal, but it's OK if Momma handcuffs me to the desk? It's ok to treat your children using illegal tactics, as long as you believe in God and don't steal, and don't listen to music? Has he learned how to parent his own children when that day comes? Has he learned that when we get to the end of our rope, we get to do "whatever" comes into our mind, with no regard to the law?

I cannot compare this woman's action to what horrible actions other parents have taken. I can only look at HER behavior. And when I do, I see a huge problem. She is very lucky not to have to pay for her criminal activity! And hopefully she has learned how to better handle the next situation that is coming down the road!

In reference to the Bible/bad connotation comment: My stance may be only truly understood by others who have had the "Word of God" used as an excuse for a parent/authority figure to inflict extreme punishment or judgment. One does not need to read the Bible or even to believe that the Bible is the word of God to suffer abuse in the name of God----the fact that the PUNISHER believes and uses the Bible in justifying the punishment is enough to turn a person away from God for a long, long time, if not forever. I guarantee you that if the Bible had been used against you in the way it was used against some of us, you'd understand.

IWannaKnow
02-16-2011, 09:50 AM
What does a young person LEARN from being handcuffed to a chair and desk and held prisoner? It's wrong if I steal, but it's OK if Momma handcuffs me to the desk? It's ok to treat your children using illegal tactics, as long as you believe in God and don't steal, and don't listen to music? Has he learned how to parent his own children when that day comes? Has he learned that when we get to the end of our rope, we get to do "whatever" comes into our mind, with no regard to the law?
I very respectfully disagree that this woman did "whatever". Her punishment was extreme, but she took every precaution she could think of to keep him from being harmed. She did not tie him to a tree outside, he was not locked inside a closet for years and beaten with rods, he did not have a bucket for a restroom, he was not left alone; He was fed, watered and cared for - perhaps not as you would have done, but he was cared for. Should she have handcuffed him to a desk? No. But given many of the cases on this board, I cannot see this as the horrific trauma others see it as....The poor child in my siggy died with 80 contusions on her little body, vaginal and oral herpes, a fractured skull and a large vaginal tear. At the hand of her mother's boyfriend and the mother helped to cover it up - THAT, IMHO is "whatever" . I see shades of gray, not just black and white. Should this mother have been able to come up with something better? Undoubtably, but I'm not her, I do not live her life, I do not know her child or the circumstances surrounding his arrest, and therefore I'm going to refrain from judging her. The court didn't seem to think this warranted jail time, they know all the circumstances, I do not.


In reference to the Bible/bad connotation comment: My stance may be only truly understood by others who have had the "Word of God" used as an excuse for a parent/authority figure to inflict extreme punishment or judgment. One does not need to read the Bible or even to believe that the Bible is the word of God to suffer abuse in the name of God----the fact that the PUNISHER believes and uses the Bible in justifying the punishment is enough to turn a person away from God for a long, long time, if not forever. I guarantee you that if the Bible had been used against you in the way it was used against some of us, you'd understand.

I can assure you the Bible has been used against me in the most egregious way possible; my uncles used it to justify sexually abusing me from the age of 2 to 8 yrs old. I do not blame that on God or the Bible, that was completely the *human beings* who did the abusing. That is called free will, and they exercised theirs - God nothing to do with it; His only role is judging them for those decisions. I find the Bible to be a source of comfort, because I see the true meaning behind the words, not simply how I was lied to. So, no, I don't understand. I am able to see the difference between the message the Bible is trying to convey and the selfserving b.s. that was spouted at me to justify behavior that has NO justification.

ohiogirl
02-16-2011, 10:11 AM
Very well said, IWannaknow, and I am truly inspired by your ability to move beyond what happened to you. Good luck to you.

OneLostGrl
02-16-2011, 08:58 PM
I very respectfully disagree that this woman did "whatever". Her punishment was extreme, but she took every precaution she could think of to keep him from being harmed. She did not tie him to a tree outside, he was not locked inside a closet for years and beaten with rods, he did not have a bucket for a restroom, he was not left alone; He was fed, watered and cared for - perhaps not as you would have done, but he was cared for. Should she have handcuffed him to a desk? No. But given many of the cases on this board, I cannot see this as the horrific trauma others see it as....The poor child in my siggy died with 80 contusions on her little body, vaginal and oral herpes, a fractured skull and a large vaginal tear. At the hand of her mother's boyfriend and the mother helped to cover it up - THAT, IMHO is "whatever" . I see shades of gray, not just black and white. Should this mother have been able to come up with something better? Undoubtably, but I'm not her, I do not live her life, I do not know her child or the circumstances surrounding his arrest, and therefore I'm going to refrain from judging her. The court didn't seem to think this warranted jail time, they know all the circumstances, I do not.




I can assure you the Bible has been used against me in the most egregious way possible; my uncles used it to justify sexually abusing me from the age of 2 to 8 yrs old. I do not blame that on God or the Bible, that was completely the *human beings* who did the abusing. That is called free will, and they exercised theirs - God nothing to do with it; His only role is judging them for those decisions. I find the Bible to be a source of comfort, because I see the true meaning behind the words, not simply how I was lied to. So, no, I don't understand. I am able to see the difference between the message the Bible is trying to convey and the selfserving b.s. that was spouted at me to justify behavior that has NO justification.

:hug: