PDA

View Full Version : TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #3



Pages : 1 [2] 3

Inspector Gidget
02-12-2011, 05:17 AM
I hadn't caught this before -- from NG http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/10/ng.02.html



Sounds to me like Penshorn is saying they think people in the house are holding back info . . . .


Also, re-reading this, it sounds very scripted:



We were all in the house - as if to anticipate someone would question that?

There was nine people in the house - Saying an exact amount of people while under an incredible amount of stress, plus reiterating "in the house"?

I was sitting on the bed watching "Toy Story" with my baby - First, who "sits" on the bed to watch a movie, especially an 8 mon pregnant woman? Second, she wasn't watching it "with her baby" if he was running around the house.

When I realized about 10 minutes that it was unusual my baby hadn`t been back in the room - Why would that be unusual with so much other family that could've been playing with him?

Where there was another baby that my baby had been interested in - Who is this baby? Why wouldn't she say "my nephew/niece" or "friends baby" or whatever? Just an odd statement.

I ran to the grandfather`s room...When the grandfather`s girlfriend told me... - What's up with "the grandfather"? Who's grandfather and why no name? IMO, scripted!

so I ran out to the living room - looking at the layout of the house, she would have had to be in the living room to get into the Gpa's room in the first place.

I asked everyone if they`d seen the baby. We started searching - What did "everyone" say? Didn't dad tell her Josh had just been there pulling on his cap? And why did everyone immediately feel foul play? Just seems to me she'd look around for a minute before everyone panicked and joined in the search.


It's funny - there are lots of words used for the simplest statements, yet not many for the ones that should have . . . .

Another thing to add how could Joshua pull on Dad's hat if he is sitting in a chair and only 2 ft tall? He said Joshua was behind his chair pulling on his cap

gngr~snap
02-12-2011, 05:22 AM
I feel like it was an accident
IMO the daddy found him ... MOO but I think he will rise up and tell LE what happened and where he put the baby
drug activity at the home seems unlikely especially with all the adults living in the home.
Someone would have admitted the cartel(or whatever) took him in the hopes of getting him back alive.
IMO when the 911call was made he had already been removed.

MsFacetious
02-12-2011, 05:50 AM
If LE really thinks that one or both of these parents killed this baby and hid his body...

Do you really think they are just going to sit back and watch them drive home with another baby boy?

"Yeah, that's cool... oh I know we believe they killed the first one, but I'm sure that this one will be okay..."

I think the fact that the older brother has not been removed says something.

I think if the new baby comes home from the hospital with them, that will also say something.

They could FIND a reason to take those kids if they felt strongly about it. Maybe they will and they are just waiting until the new baby is born. But if they do they better be able to show a good reason or make an immediate arrest. If they are going to take away a newborn they better be ready to charge his mother immediately. Or be able to prove that the baby was in imminent danger (born addicted for example, which I don't see in this case.)

For now however, there is still a child in the home. They could find a reason to take him if they wanted to...

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 05:56 AM
I don't think we know if the older child lives in the home fulltime, do we, or if he was visiting?

gngr~snap
02-12-2011, 06:34 AM
I don't believe anyone KILLED this baby. I.think.he was a victim of a freak accident. By no fault of anyone. IMO there is no reason to take the new baby IF someone admits to an accident,being scared and telling where the baby's body is. If.the medical examiner's autospsy matches with the story of what happened. All should be forgiven ... but hey! Who am I? Other than a person that beleives Joshua's parents meant him NO harm.
MOO

ThoughtFox
02-12-2011, 07:14 AM
I keep wondering if this mother was leaning back on the bed and fell asleep, so when she says it was only ten minutes it was really much longer and no one else knew to watch the baby. It's hard to believe, but toddlers wander off every day while parents are asleep. We had a mother in Chattanooga who fell asleep and her child wandered quite far to a pond where luckily someone rescued him before he fell in. Other kids of course aren't that lucky and drown in swimming pools every summer.

MsFacetious
02-12-2011, 07:14 AM
This is a picture I don't think we've seen:

http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8485/joshua15.jpg



I don't think we know if the older child lives in the home fulltime, do we, or if he was visiting?

Generally if someone shares custody of a child they have them for the weekend, or during the week. Not both. This child (D) has been there all week. I would think if there was another parent sharing custody this would be a great time to have him spend time there and a bad time to disrupt his usual schedule. It appears that they have full custody of him.


D was there Friday night when Joshua was reported missing.

D was there Sunday during a media interview.

D was there Tuesday before the prayer vigil. (I assume during it as well.)

D was there Wednesday afternoon during live broadcasts about searches.

D was also there at another point when the parents were at the police station. I cannot pinpoint what day it was. I want to say Monday, but I might just be thinking that because that's when we heard about polygraphs. I know there is video of them leaving the PD, so maybe someone else has it.

I remember this because I have been truly amazed by how much this child HAS been around. I have to think there isn't somewhere else for him to go.


http://www.kens5.com/home/Bloodhounds-FBI-in-on-search-for-missing-New-Braunfels-toddler-115572099.html

http://www.kens5.com/home/Days-later-New-Braunfels-boy-still-missing-as-evidence-remains--115646449.html



More Tears from Dad

http://www.ksat.com/news/26783062/detail.html#video

not_my_kids
02-12-2011, 07:26 AM
Sorry to quote myself here but I want to compare that above quote from this one from Penshorn on NG (bbm)

From Nancy Grace, 2/10/11 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/10/ng.02.html):


From Nancy Grace, 2/7/11 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html):


Where in the house were all the adults?

It sounds like LE may have having a hard time pinning down who was where in the house that evening. From what Penshorn has said, I'm taking that to mean that others may have been in that main area of the home but that LE only knows for sure that two people were there, kwim?

I'm thinking it's a matter of LE asking each person, 'where were you' and 'who was in there with you'. And more than one person's story isn't matching up, IMHO.

7 Adults:
1) mom: reportedly in BR
2) g'father's GF: reportedly in g'father's BR
3) father: reportedly watching game
4) g'father: ? (hasn't been reported)
5) father's friend: ? (hasn't been reported)
6) other grandparent: ? (hasn't been reported)
7) godmother: ? (hasn't been reported)

2 Children (or 3...as reported by mom on NG, 2/7/11):
1) Joshua: reportedly in BR with mom, then to dad watching game, then...???
2) other baby: reportedly in BR with g'father's GF
3) older brother: ? (hasn't been reported)

It's an open layout with the kitchen and living room opening up to each other, so I'm assuming that's the "main area" he's talking about.

Open layout:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6119624&postcount=123)


Who said they saw him in the main area?

From Herald-Zeitung, 2/5/11 (http://herald-zeitung.com/news/community_alert/article_f3907074-3188-11e0-a507-001cc4c03286.html):


From Nancy Grace, 2/7/11 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html):



From Nancy Grace, 2/10/11 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/10/ng.02.html):




My question after all of this: Has the mother ever supported the father's claim that he saw him? Every quote I've seen is that she asked and NO ONE HAD SEEN HIM.


The closest I've seen is Nancy Grace, 2/7/11 (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html):


But at any time has she said, "I went looking for him and my husband/Joshua's father had just seen him pulling on his hat/beanie?"

If so, does anyone have that link/quote?


I don't know if anyone has answered this one yet, but if I'm remembering right from copying down Sabrina's statements, both the grandfather and the grandfather's girlfriend were in the grandfather's bedroom with the other baby. Not much help there, I know. Believe me, those are the questions that I want answered too. It would help so much if we just knew who was where.

Kat
02-12-2011, 08:16 AM
If LE really thinks that one or both of these parents killed this baby and hid his body...

Do you really think they are just going to sit back and watch them drive home with another baby boy?

"Yeah, that's cool... oh I know we believe they killed the first one, but I'm sure that this one will be okay..."

I think the fact that the older brother has not been removed says something.

I think if the new baby comes home from the hospital with them, that will also say something.

They could FIND a reason to take those kids if they felt strongly about it. Maybe they will and they are just waiting until the new baby is born. But if they do they better be able to show a good reason or make an immediate arrest. If they are going to take away a newborn they better be ready to charge his mother immediately. Or be able to prove that the baby was in imminent danger (born addicted for example, which I don't see in this case.)

For now however, there is still a child in the home. They could find a reason to take him if they wanted to...

I understand your points.

The only argument I can come up with is that Junior wasn't removed from the home when Haleigh went missing. Kyron's little sister wasn't removed from the home when he went missing. I can't think of any siblings of missing children that were removed only and solely because one of the children living in that home went missing.

To be very honest, I don't think that when the unborn child is born and the parents bring it home that it will tell us anything.

Because it could mean: 1. That LE doesn't suspect that one of them or both of them is either guilty of a crime or withholding information about a crime, accident and etc. 2. They do think that one or both of them are responsible but they don't have enough to charge them with anything and make it stick.

LE could ask for a CPS investigation for the new baby. IMHO. They could have already asked for one for the older child, I don't think that is usually disclosed to the media? JMHO.

I have no clue what happened to Joshua. It could be any of the theories that I've seen put on these threads.

That's what I find irritating about Joshua's case, there just isn't enough info for us to sink our teeth into a theory and run with it. They can all be picked apart, and they fall apart quickly.

But writing that post made me think of that sibling. I always feel so bad for the siblings. They suffer so much when their brother or sister go missing, and sometimes they seem to get lost in the fray of the actual investigation and search for the missing child. So sad. Prayers for him.

All JMHO.

not_my_kids
02-12-2011, 08:31 AM
Regardless of what the mother says, and since some here do feel that the parents are covering something up, I wonder if Joshua had gotten outside before? After the first time that my son got out, realizing that I hadn't seen him in ten minutes would have been enough to make me panic. In fact that happened a couple times while I was doing dishes or switching laundry and realized that he wasn't right behind me. It might have only been 1 minute, but I still panicked.

TxLady2
02-12-2011, 08:51 AM
I don't think it's hard and fast rule. At least that has not been my experience with nieces, nephews, and my own kids.

I agree, there are no rules when it comes to children, except that the dad's statement about knowing his zone... no 18 month old is going to adhere to rules without constant reminders. If they see or hear something or get the urge to explore, that's what they do.

TxLady2
02-12-2011, 09:14 AM
I can't think of ANY legitimate reason that this family would lie to LE about what happened if they KNEW what happened was an accident. Even if they were afraid of CPS, the fact is that accidents DO happen and CPS would take that into consideration.I do find YOUR scenario, YellowSubmarine, to be MOST plausable (if his parents/family is lying).
There was an older boy in the house....a 6 year old, right?? I would think it would be difficult for the 6 year old to lie under questioning from LE. I would think the older child might be the BEST witness....especially if he saw other things going on in the house that might have made the adults less 'aware' of what was going on.
Regardless, I just feel like "we let him play in the yard for 2 minutes and turned around to find him gone'' is just a far better 'excuse' than he disappeared within the house and couldn't have opened the door by himself. That would be making themselves suspects...and everyone in the house suspect. I just think people who are trying to avoid being blamed would think of a story that puts him far away from them....not right in front of their noses. I also have SERIOUS problems with the notion that this little boy wandered that far from the home at night. I just don't see that happening either. MOO.


ITA. That many people are not going to stick to a "story" to cover up some kind of accident because of the fear of reporting it. CPS realizes that accidents do happen, they are not going to take other children out of the home just because one child was injured in an accident.

I think it's very likely that Joshua wandered out that door, and possibly got a few blocks away, and someone just happened to be driving around and grabbed him. Or that he went into a pond or the river, lost his footing and drowned. I can't tell you how many little kids have drowned in ponds or rivers in my area over the last few years, and some of them were not found immediately.

I just don't want to think that these parents did anything to that little boy, either deliberately or accidentally.

TxLady2
02-12-2011, 09:32 AM
Bingo. There is a problem in that part of the timeline I believe.
First, we had the mom saying that at 7:40 she realised the baby was missing. But that makes no sense since the dad said he saw him @ 8 pm. How would it take her 20 minutes to look in the livingroom which is 10 seconds away?

I think the real problem took place closer to 7:40, an hour before the call to 911.

One of them is not sure about the exact times... that's typical. The dad didn't say he saw Joshua at exactly 8:00... he said 'around' 8:00. He may be just guessing and obviously didn't make it a point to look at the clock when Joshua was pulling on his beanie... and there would have been no need to note the time. IDK, but I think LE is more suspicious when people give exact times about certain things because it is not human nature to do that.

belimom
02-12-2011, 10:35 AM
I am just confused by the three types of search dogs that could not pick up a trail from the home. As many have said, they should have picked up something of a trail, even from the previous day or last time he went out. I am a big believer in search dogs and think they are amazing. I know they can be used or trained incorrectly, but really, how hard should it be for a dog to pick up a scent outside of the home, if it exists?
Just unbelievable frustrating and sad and while I think LE has some suspicions, I don't think they have any real idea what happened here, unless everything is being kept quiet.

bbm

Clu, I think the dogs did pick up a scent but not a scent outside of the yard. The dad alluded to that and also Penshorn said the dogs had some spots of 'interest' but nothing that could help with locating Joshua.

The quotes are in this post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #3

LunaticFringe
02-12-2011, 10:40 AM
Another thing to add how could Joshua pull on Dad's hat if he is sitting in a chair and only 2 ft tall? He said Joshua was behind his chair pulling on his cap

If he was in a recliner and all layed back I think Joshua would be able to reach.

Daisyjane
02-12-2011, 10:57 AM
bbm

Clu, I think the dogs did pick up a scent but not a scent outside of the yard. The dad alluded to that and also Penshorn said the dogs had some spots of 'interest' but nothing that could helped with locating Joshua.

I quotes are in this post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels, 4 Feb 2011 - #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6120603&postcount=230)

I know zilch about search dogs, but I wonder this: What if someone tall carried Joshua away from the house. That would place Joshua 5 feet off the ground. Dogs are low to the ground; perhaps they missed a scent because it was so far above their noses?

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 11:04 AM
I don't believe anyone KILLED this baby. I.think.he was a victim of a freak accident. By no fault of anyone. IMO there is no reason to take the new baby IF someone admits to an accident,being scared and telling where the baby's body is. If.the medical examiner's autospsy matches with the story of what happened. All should be forgiven ... but hey! Who am I? Other than a person that beleives Joshua's parents meant him NO harm.
MOO

IF they can prove that it was indeed an accident, I still don't think it's going to be an 'all will be forgiven' situation. You can't just hide a body, file a false police report, and lie to multiple LE agencies, and get away with it, right?

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 11:07 AM
I know zilch about search dogs, but I wonder this: What if someone tall carried Joshua away from the house. That would place Joshua 5 feet off the ground. Dogs are low to the ground; perhaps they missed a scent because it was so far above their noses?

I have a pet scent hound, a beagle. I do know that they have short legs so they can put their noses to the ground, and keep walking, to stay on the trail. So perhaps height may make the difference.

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 12:15 PM
Whatever happened, I hope LE has a clear idea by now and just isn't saying. When they say that this is not an abduction, do they mean by someone outside of the home, I wonder? If someone from the group of 7 took him, would that be considered an abduction or kidnapping-it seems to me it would/should be. I think they are mainly considering only wandered off (really far away) or killed and disposed of before calling for help. But with so many conflicting statements, who knows what they think, or know...

LCoastMom
02-12-2011, 12:15 PM
MsF - thank you for staying on top of this case.

There are too many possibilities with too few clues at this point, I'm not able to stay on any one theory for long.

Joshua appears to be a much loved baby (many happy photos), he is just too adorable to believe anyone (in his family) could do something intentionally to harm him.

If an accident, they had precious little time to hide him well enough to still be missing 8 days later. With 6 to 8 witnesses, including grandparents and a 6 year old sibling, I don't believe their secret could have stayed a secret for this long.

If an abduction, LE has found no clues - if deceit, we have heard precious little and if he wandered off - why have they not found some sign of him out of the yard?

I'm wondering how close the home is to the water LE has been searching, how close to the river? Last month when 4 yr old Juliani Cardenas was driven into a canal in CA, with similar temperatures it took 2 agonizing weeks for his body to be found.

I hope something is revealed soon, this is just a heartbreaking case.

sarx
02-12-2011, 12:25 PM
I know zilch about search dogs, but I wonder this: What if someone tall carried Joshua away from the house. That would place Joshua 5 feet off the ground. Dogs are low to the ground; perhaps they missed a scent because it was so far above their noses?

It is a very logical deduction. Scent falls and disperses (think of puffing a baby powder bottle outside) as time goes by. I do think there is truth though in training issues here, and again, these were prison dogs, not exactly used to training or searching for babies (not much need, KWIM?). The short answer is, walked, carried, dragged, stuffed in a stroller, there is still scent there. The long answer is if you don't train for all aspects your chances of success go down.

bdawk20
02-12-2011, 12:25 PM
IF they can prove that it was indeed an accident, I still don't think it's going to be an 'all will be forgiven' situation. You can't just hide a body, file a false police report, and lie to multiple LE agencies, and get away with it, right?

Especially if the accident was caused by any kind of negligence....

jmo

sweetdreams
02-12-2011, 12:52 PM
I think the main missing info, that would clear up many of our questions is....did every person in the home that night see little Joshua at some point? With all the people present in the home in and around the time of the 911 call, the only people we know stating they at some point saw the child was Mom and Dad. I find it hard to believe, with such interest in this case, that we have no direct quotes from anyone else. I know LE must keep certain details close to their vest, but where is the proper media reporting on this. That is a basic, much needed part to this story!

LCoastMom
02-12-2011, 12:53 PM
K-9 dog teams continued searching areas around the home of missing 18-month old Joshua Davis Jr. yesterday, but they also searched areas far from his home, on the other side of town. For the 2nd time in the last week, investigators were back in the area of Hunter Road and Country Ridge Drive with dog search teams scouring more densely wooded areas, searching for signs of the missing boy. New Braunfels Police officials wouldn’t say specifically why they were in that area yesterday, but did say that they were following up on any and all tips they get from the public, and that yesterday’s search off Hunter Road was one of those places they were following up on.



http://kgnb.am/news/one-week-later-searchers-seeking-more-tips-missing-toddler

This report has been stuck in my craw, is LE saying they have so little to go on that they have been investigating every call they get; from strangers who have a passing thought to whack-a-doodles who call in goodness knows what - in hopes that something pans out or maybe someone's conscience is bothering them, so they make an anonymous call?

Where is Joshua?

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 12:56 PM
One of them is not sure about the exact times... that's typical. The dad didn't say he saw Joshua at exactly 8:00... he said 'around' 8:00. He may be just guessing and obviously didn't make it a point to look at the clock when Joshua was pulling on his beanie... and there would have been no need to note the time. IDK, but I think LE is more suspicious when people give exact times about certain things because it is not human nature to do that.

In the interview I heard with mom, (on NG) I think, mom said she was only estimating the times. She said she thought all of it took place around 8ish, but she wasn't exactly looking at the clock. Makes sense to me.

I'm just not seeing any red flags from the family, right now. The thing that is puzzling is the lack of a trail. But then again, sarx says, that could be dog/handler training, right?

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 12:59 PM
I think the main missing info, that would clear up many of our questions is....did every person in the home that night see little Joshua at some point? With all the people present in the home in and around the time of the 911 call, the only people we know stating they at some point saw the child was Mom and Dad. I find it hard to believe, with such interest in this case, that we have no direct quotes from anyone else. I know LE must keep certain details close to their vest, but where is the proper media reporting on this. That is a basic, much needed part to this story!

My thoughts, too, sweetdreams. Usually, we have a little more at this point. It would answer a lot of questions to hear what the others in the house that night saw, and to hear more of the timeline.

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 01:05 PM
The sort of tip that might lead LE as far away as the Hunter Rd search could be something about a vehicle seen in the area, for example, that might have some merit to LE. I wonder if someone at the trailer that night lives in that area or if the family has friends/acquaintances nearby.

Noway
02-12-2011, 01:23 PM
Thanks belimom. That makes me feel some better.
Then again that makes me think Joshua was carried out of his yard.........into a vehicle maybe.

He still would have left a scent being carried out, wouldn't he?

ETA
Sarx answered


It is a very logical deduction. Scent falls and disperses (think of puffing a baby powder bottle outside) as time goes by. I do think there is truth though in training issues here, and again, these were prison dogs, not exactly used to training or searching for babies (not much need, KWIM?). The short answer is, walked, carried, dragged, stuffed in a stroller, there is still scent there. The long answer is if you don't train for all aspects your chances of success go down.
Link

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 01:25 PM
He still would have left a scent being carried out, wouldn't he?

sarx, says yes. I think there is just a problem with the dogs finding the trail, not that a trail doesn't exist.

Noway
02-12-2011, 01:41 PM
I don't believe anyone KILLED this baby. I.think.he was a victim of a freak accident. By no fault of anyone. IMO there is no reason to take the new baby IF someone admits to an accident,being scared and telling where the baby's body is. If.the medical examiner's autospsy matches with the story of what happened. All should be forgiven ... but hey! Who am I? Other than a person that beleives Joshua's parents meant him NO harm.
MOO

Seriously?

Noway
02-12-2011, 01:43 PM
IF they can prove that it was indeed an accident, I still don't think it's going to be an 'all will be forgiven' situation. You can't just hide a body, file a false police report, and lie to multiple LE agencies, and get away with it, right?

Thank you!

I don't care what the "justification" might be for having lied about what happened (we were afraid our new baby would be taken away, we were afraid of the police because of our history, yadda yadda yadda).

If that ends up being the case ... IMO all should not be forgiven.

belimom
02-12-2011, 01:49 PM
He still would have left a scent being carried out, wouldn't he?

ETA
Sarx answered


Link (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6121417&postcount=274)

I think the father alluded to a scent in the yard when he said there wasn't a scent of him leaving the yard.

I'd like to give the dogs a little more credit - that they picked up a scene in the yard (where he would naturally have one) but not a trail leaving the yard.

Noway
02-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Does that mean Joshua never left the yard?

ETA
I wonder if they brought the dogs in the house, would they have run in the pattern Joshua ran (bedroom1, livingroom, bedroom 2) ... and if so, out either door.

peeples
02-12-2011, 01:54 PM
Thank you!

I don't care what the "justification" might be for having lied about what happened (we were afraid our new baby would be taken away, we were afraid of the police because of our history, yadda yadda yadda).

If that ends up being the case ... IMO all should not be forgiven.

Even if it was a freak accident the fact they'd treat their dead child like this is awful the fact they'd lie waste resources etc etc IF this was an accident i say it still should resort in a full investigation with the older child and new baby removed from the house..
Normal people would not cover up an accident.

belimom
02-12-2011, 01:57 PM
Does that mean Joshua never left the yard?

ETA
I wonder if they brought the dogs in the house, would they have run in the pattern Joshua ran (bedroom1, livingroom, bedroom 2) ... and if so, out either door.

bbm

I think that's very possible. Of course who knows if it's true or not, but I do think it's possible. Not every family takes walks and strolls their kids up/down the neighborhood, kwim?

We once lived across the street from a certain family, and after we had been living there about six months, I was talking to my next door neighbor. She asked how my children got along with the little boy across the street. I was floored... We had never seen a child over there, at all. Not in the yard, not out walking, nowhere. It took another couple of months before we finally saw him one day and ran over to introduce ourselves before he was rushed inside by his parents.

So I do think it's possible that little Joshua went from the car to the house and back - and played in his yard. The backyard is fenced so I imagine he ran loose there more often than the front, which is not fenced. JMHO

Noway
02-12-2011, 02:28 PM
I had wondered if they walked in the neighborhood or if there were other small children.

Do either of the parents work? I hadn't seen mention of that, but wondered if Joshua went to daycare.

Trying to think who he might have gone with easily if he was outside.

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 02:31 PM
I had wondered if they walked in the neighborhood or if there were other small children.

Do either of the parents work? I hadn't seen mention of that, but wondered if Joshua went to daycare.

Trying to think who he might have gone with easily if he was outside.

Mom's workplace was mentioned earlier. I haven't heard about dad at all, though.

Dee10
02-12-2011, 02:37 PM
IIRC Mom worked at Denny's.

Noway
02-12-2011, 02:43 PM
For a bit I'm going to go with the assumption that Joshua did go outside on his own and the dogs they used were not the right dogs.

Going with the assumption that someone took him (since his body has not yet been found).

Just wondering if someone at work or a neighbor could have held a grudge. The parents haven't mentioned anything along those lines ... just feeling helpless.

imamaze
02-12-2011, 03:24 PM
I removed the talk about the baby making a gang sign. Lets move on to something else everyone.
Thanks

Ima

TexGal
02-12-2011, 03:32 PM
I had wondered if they walked in the neighborhood or if there were other small children.

Do either of the parents work? I hadn't seen mention of that, but wondered if Joshua went to daycare.

Trying to think who he might have gone with easily if he was outside.

I saw stated on this board previously that the mom works at Denny's Restaurant. I have not seen anything regarding dad's employment.

TexGal
02-12-2011, 03:37 PM
I was just off Hunter Road today at a basketball game and saw two helicoptors flying low. I have no idea if this is related, but it did make me stop and wonder. This was not as far out as County Ridge Road which is the intersection with Hunter Road that I saw mentioned in one article that was being re-examined on Wednesday. I will say that it is unusual to see several helicoptors at a time in New Braunfels and neither appeared to be a hospital helicoptor which is the most normal type to see. One was very small and a solid dark color like black or dark brown. It appeared to be a two-seater coptor.

TexGal
02-12-2011, 03:47 PM
And if you want to see how abundant the "buzzards", which I'm not learning are truely vultures, are in New Braunfels: take a look at today's Herald Zeitung:

http://http://herald-zeitung.com/

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 03:58 PM
OT, but I just read a story from Indiana where three adults ran down and killed a 12-yr old last month and never came forward. They have been indentified, but none of them apparently felt the need to confess.

sarx
02-12-2011, 04:02 PM
I have no idea if it is the case here, but I can say I know a lot of people with tats like that that are NOT a part of gangs. Yes, it is common in gangs, but does not necessarily mean so.

justthinkin
02-12-2011, 05:03 PM
I have written to a reporter at KENS5, San Antonio, and requested her to either run a story covering missing info that we do not have or if she has info she can share to pass it along, and which I will distribute here.
1. actual residents of the home in question
2. lack of media interviews with the grandfather's girlfriend and the other grandparent present in the home that evening
3. Clarification of who that other grandparent is
4. father's employment status

FYI for Websleuths staff, I made clear that I was requesting the above info as an individual, and not as a representative of Websleuths, but that said info would be distributed to Websleuths.

jt

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 05:04 PM
I wonder if they have searched as far as they think he could possibly have gotten on his own and if other searches will be based only on tip...why does that remind me of what MCSO said about Kyron...

justthinkin
02-12-2011, 05:16 PM
I wish we had more info on the search the parents and friends were conducting today, ie. exactly where they were intending to conduct their search, and if they were allowed by LE to go forward with that search.

If that search is taking place, and should locate the missing Joshua when none of the vast searches by LE have done so, it's going to be hinkey to me IYKWIM, ala JR finding Jonbenet in the basement.

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 05:25 PM
Not to bring up a gruesome subject again, but this kind of fits my theory of what happened to Joshua.

I feel that some type of wildlife ran off with him, possibly vultures. This is from a site about vultures in and around San Antonio:


In this region, vultures have damaged electrical high-tension towers, power lines and buildings, Smith said. They also create a potential hazard to commercial and military aircraft. And vultures in rural areas, especially black vultures, sometimes attack sheep, goats and cows while giving birth, often killing their newborns.


While vultures sometimes damage property or injure or kill livestock, they play an important part in the ecosystem, helping speed along disposal of dead animals, Smith said. "Vultures are nature's sanitation crew," he said. "They perform an important service by disposing of carcasses that might possibly cause the spread of disease.

http://agnewsarchive.tamu.edu/dailynews/stories/WFSC/Feb2207a.htm

Columbo
02-12-2011, 05:33 PM
I don't know what he meant, but no 18 month old should be outside unattended at any time. I do disagree with the dad that little Joshua would know his boundaries; not at his age. However on this night I don't believe he just wandered off into the cold night. MOO

I don't think he would have gotten too far under those weather conditions-- seems likely he would have slipped and fallen off of the icy stairs if he tried to get outside on his own. If he did slip and fall, he would have been screaming and crying--unless he fell on his head and died of the injury before he could even scream. (I hate to say that!!) But if that happened, why would they have covered it up? There would be no reason to do that.

belimom
02-12-2011, 05:43 PM
(OT, but they believe they have found the body of Jose Rodriguez in the canal where they found little Juliani Cardenas...).

justthinkin
02-12-2011, 06:12 PM
Not to bring up a gruesome subject again, but this kind of fits my theory of what happened to Joshua.

I feel that some type of wildlife ran off with him, possibly vultures. This is from a site about vultures in and around San Antonio:http://agnewsarchive.tamu.edu/dailynews/stories/WFSC/Feb2207a.htm

Tuffy, vultures or turkey buzzards don't carry off prey. They dine where they find it. Oh they might tug it a few feet, but that's about it.

The only wildlife that would concern me is feral hogs. Hogs would be the most apt to drag something the farthest in fighting over the remains. They can and do at times run in very large groups, mostly offspring led by older sows. If I'm not mistaken, the boars are mostly solitary. Feral hogs are a huge problem in Texas, and they are present in central Texas as I'm sure you know.

Feral dogs, domestic dogs of certain breeds, read pit bulls and the like, coyotes or even a mountain lion--even less a possibility I would think, might take something a couple of hundred yards to a location where they felt safe, but hogs are a different story. I shudder in thinking of that as a possibility. It's just too gruesome to imagine.

MsFacetious
02-12-2011, 06:35 PM
OT, but I just read a story from Indiana where three adults ran down and killed a 12-yr old last month and never came forward. They have been indentified, but none of them apparently felt the need to confess.

There was also a baby last year in Putnam County, Florida, who was run over in the driveway. Nobody was ever identified that we know of in that case.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/23022244/detail.html

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99452&highlight=mud+tires

TexGal
02-12-2011, 06:44 PM
I just got back from a second ball game in downtown New Braunfels and once again saw helicoptor activity. There was a silver or grey helicoptor with no markings on it going back and forth over the Landa Park area. I saw it make the pass over that area at least 5 times. I have no idea if this is related, but geeze I've seen a lot of helicoptors over New Braunfels today...wish I knew the details.

panthera
02-12-2011, 06:53 PM
I just got back from a second ball game in downtown New Braunfels and once again saw helicoptor activity. There was a silver or grey helicoptor with no markings on it going back and forth over the Landa Park area. I saw it make the pass over that area at least 5 times. I have no idea if this is related, but geeze I've seen a lot of helicoptors over New Braunfels today...wish I knew the details.

I just pray they are searching for Joshua. :prayer:

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 07:25 PM
Tuffy, vultures or turkey buzzards don't carry off prey. They dine where they find it. Oh they might tug it a few feet, but that's about it.

The only wildlife that would concern me is feral hogs. Hogs would be the most apt to drag something the farthest in fighting over the remains. They can and do at times run in very large groups, mostly offspring led by older sows. If I'm not mistaken, the boars are mostly solitary. Feral hogs are a huge problem in Texas, and they are present in central Texas as I'm sure you know.

Feral dogs, domestic dogs of certain breeds, read pit bulls and the like, coyotes or even a mountain lion--even less a possibility I would think, might take something a couple of hundred yards to a location where they felt safe, but hogs are a different story. I shudder in thinking of that as a possibility. It's just too gruesome to imagine.

You're right, justthinkin'. It would be more likely that a feral dog/coyote would have been more likely to drag away a child.

Noway
02-12-2011, 07:30 PM
If he was dragged from the yard by a wild animal, I guess there still would have been scent of him leaving the yard.

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 07:35 PM
If he was dragged from the yard by a wild animal, I guess there still would have been scent of him leaving the yard.

Why can't they find it? :waitasec: That is just baffling to me.

He's not in the house, he's not in the yard, but he's somewhere. For some reason they can't track him.

2619 Savannah Hill Circle New Braunfels - Google Maps

There is so much land, and brush to search around that area. I really wish we would hear more about the search.

eloisemurphy
02-12-2011, 07:48 PM
Tuffy, vultures or turkey buzzards don't carry off prey. They dine where they find it. Oh they might tug it a few feet, but that's about it.

The only wildlife that would concern me is feral hogs. Hogs would be the most apt to drag something the farthest in fighting over the remains. They can and do at times run in very large groups, mostly offspring led by older sows. If I'm not mistaken, the boars are mostly solitary. Feral hogs are a huge problem in Texas, and they are present in central Texas as I'm sure you know.

Feral dogs, domestic dogs of certain breeds, read pit bulls and the like, coyotes or even a mountain lion--even less a possibility I would think, might take something a couple of hundred yards to a location where they felt safe, but hogs are a different story. I shudder in thinking of that as a possibility. It's just too gruesome to imagine.

I've been thinking along these lines too. I looked up the info on Mountain Lions, in TX, although they have been seen in all 254 county's in TX, their habitat has dwindled to mainly western parts of the State. I'm not sure I would eliminate that as a possibility just yet. I also thought about American Bald Eagle,or a Golden Eagle but not sure if they could take off with a 30 lb. baby. They have been known to take Deer Fawns and baby Goats. I found this link of a sighting of an Eagle in the New Braunfels area on 2/10/2011. http://www.baldeagleinfo.com/eagle/directory/TX.html

panthera
02-12-2011, 07:50 PM
If he was dragged from the yard by a wild animal, I guess there still would have been scent of him leaving the yard.

And likely more evidence than just a scent. :(

Noway
02-12-2011, 07:54 PM
I've found a couple of businesses with that same address. Guess they may have run a business out of their home.

eta
???

alwayslooking
02-12-2011, 08:04 PM
I do feel this baby wondered off, no foul play......little people our so quick, our two year old, grandson wears bell on his ankles, this is the second one of eight, that this has had to be done, because they are runners (two different families, not all eight belong to one set) lol!

http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=2809

Noway
02-12-2011, 08:05 PM
Joshua's family steps up search


http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-zeitung.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/9/b9/91d/9b991d3e-36fc-11e0-944a-001cc4c03286-revisions/4d571243663f1.preview-300.jpg (http://herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_eccf8698-36fc-11e0-be18-001cc4c03286.html?mode=image&photo=1)

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-zeitung.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/b/e7/25a/be725ae6-36fc-11e0-9db2-001cc4c03286-revisions/4d57127dd3616.preview-100.jpg

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/herald-zeitung.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/e/39/8b0/e398b068-36fc-11e0-a7be-001cc4c03286-revisions/4d5712bd3717a.preview-100.jpg

MEGAN HOLT/Herald-Zeitung

Community members organized search parties Saturday afternoon to pass out fliers with Joshua Davis Jr.’s picture in the New Braunfels and San Marcos areas.

Posted: Saturday, February 12, 2011 4:59 pm
Joshua's family steps up search (http://herald-zeitung.com/content/tncms/live/herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_eccf8698-36fc-11e0-be18-001cc4c03286.html)

By Megan Holt The Herald-Zeitung


NEW BRAUNFELS — A circle of people formed in the front yard of Joshua Davis Jr.’s family home Saturday afternoon.

Holding hands, about 50 community members prayed for the baby’s safe return and for the family’s peace of mind.

This content is available to Herald-Zeitung subscribers only!

Noway
02-12-2011, 08:10 PM
Wish I could have read/posted more but maybe a Herald-Zeitung subscriber can fill us in or another news source will post something.

eta
This is where I found
http://interceder.net/list/joshua-davis

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 08:11 PM
“The police are saying they are no longer taking tips,” Griffin said. “The lines have been jam packed with leads.”

Griffin said the family organized Saturday’s search party to follow up on leads the police have not investigated.

:eek: Really? Is this unusual? I mean, I'm glad they're getting lots of tips, but...

SilkySifaka
02-12-2011, 08:25 PM
:eek: Really? Is this unusual? I mean, I'm glad they're getting lots of tips, but...

Very unusual. Outrageous imo. I don't care what they think might or might not have happened to him, his little body is somewhere, whether bc he wondered off or foul play and to not take tips is unbelievable.

So if someone thinks they saw something that might mean a new area to search or that they heard something, they aren't to let LE know? :banghead:

I know that if I read that and i had been wondering if I should call in what I knew, i wouldn't.

SilkySifaka
02-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Very glad to see the family stepping up to try and look at the leads that cops aren't, as well as searching.

Sad that they have to on their own bc of the issues when a family member finds a body (both making them suspect and out of all people more likely to disturb evidence by picking it up) but this imo is another telling reason that I don't think the parents have one thing to do with it.

watcher9
02-12-2011, 08:32 PM
Going through the link posted thanks to Noway, I was able to get to this. It was updated at 6:30 and seems to be a pretty accurate account of the whole case.

http://herald-zeitung.com/news/community_alert/article_f3907074-3188-11e0-a507-001cc4c03286.html

alwayslooking
02-12-2011, 08:38 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/03/tanya-shannon-body-found-_n_803698.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/15/sarah-rogers-dead-mothers_n_499447.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106

I just really feel in my heart, it has happened again! My prayers are for the family!

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 09:24 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/03/tanya-shannon-body-found-_n_803698.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/15/sarah-rogers-dead-mothers_n_499447.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106

I just really feel in my heart, it has happened again! My prayers are for the family!

Oh wow, that last story is so similar! That boy wandered a mile from home. That is so sad to think of a small child wandering lost, and alone like that. My heart breaks for his family.

Kimster
02-12-2011, 09:38 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/03/tanya-shannon-body-found-_n_803698.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/15/sarah-rogers-dead-mothers_n_499447.html

http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106

I just really feel in my heart, it has happened again! My prayers are for the family!

There was a child in the Coos Bay area of Oregon who wandered off and was miraculously found alive. I followed the case about a year or so ago and can't seem to find it now.

Tuffy
02-12-2011, 09:41 PM
There was a child in the Coos Bay area of Oregon who wandered off and was miraculously found alive. I followed the case about a year or so ago and can't seem to find it now.

Was it a six year old?

http://www.d13publicaffairs.com/go/doc/21/326086/News-Release-Coast-Guard-finds-missing-6-year-old-in-Coos-Bay-Ore-

panthera
02-12-2011, 09:44 PM
Oh wow, that last story is so similar! That boy wandered a mile from home. That is so sad to think of a small child wandering lost, and alone like that. My heart breaks for his family.

I remember that case and thinking the little boy couldn't have withstood the heat or not get his feet so badly hurt he wouldn't be able to walk that far. In this case however, I still believe that Joshua would've gotten very cold within a few minutes, cried out, or like some children, been afraid of the darkness. MOO

Kimster
02-12-2011, 09:45 PM
No, he or she was younger. Dang, I wish I could remember the case! We were following it here on WS. I remember the parents lived in a rural spot and their home was on a hill surrounded by a vast terrain of trees and brush. I was so happy they found the child!

Kimster
02-12-2011, 09:46 PM
I remember that case and thinking the little boy couldn't have withstood the heat or not get his feet so badly hurt he wouldn't be able to walk that far. In this case however, I still believe that Joshua would've gotten very cold within a few minutes, cried out, or like some children, been afraid of the darkness. MOO

Was it hot Panthera? I don't remember it getting very hot around here? Was the home on a hill? I remember we posted a pic of the house on the hill.

Kimster
02-12-2011, 09:49 PM
While looking for that case, I found this report of a 2 year old who let themselves out of the house: http://www.kptv.com/news/26523503/detail.html

panthera
02-12-2011, 10:00 PM
Was it hot Panthera? I don't remember it getting very hot around here? Was the home on a hill? I remember we posted a pic of the house on the hill.

From post #319, the case I was referring to was Emmett Trapp in Arizona. :)

cj1132
02-12-2011, 10:08 PM
From post #319, the case I was referring to was Emmett Trapp in Arizona. :)

The case of Emmett Trapp broke my heart. I will always wonder if volunteers would have found him in time. There was another case of a little red haired boy who was camping with friends of his family and disappeared. He was found alive by volunteer searchers. I don't remember his name -- there are just too many unfortunately.

paris_paris
02-12-2011, 10:13 PM
... I found this report of a 2 year old who let themselves out of the house...

I'm not sure if I've told this story before. My son was 17 months old. He and my 4 year old and a friend's 4 year old were playing in the bedroom after breakfast. I went to have a shower. When I came out there was a little chair by the door. 17 month old was gone, and the 4 year old's didn't even know it. They thought he was in another room. The chain latch was undone (I'd locked it) and he had closed the door behind him. He walked from our apartment building 1 block to the main street, crossed the main street at the lights and walked up 3 blocks to the corner store. It was a store we often walked to. He helped himself to the candy rack and the store owner called police as soon as he realized my little guy was alone. I called police as soon as I checked all 3 floors of our building and the yard and parking lot. By the time I called he was already at the police station eating a donut.

Kimster
02-12-2011, 10:24 PM
I worked with a woman who had a toddler about 18 mos old. She and her hubby were sound asleep and awoke one morning to LE standing over their bed with their son in his arms. :eek: The little guy had unlocked a dead bolt and was standing on the corner down the street from their house. Praise the Lord, a neighbor recognized him! After that, they bought a new dead bolt that required a key on both sides!

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 10:29 PM
Ok, I can see how a toddler can get outside and toddle about for a while...but miles? I know I can't walk miles, even though I have many more years experience at walking, and certainly not in cold, ice and/or snow...without shoes?

justthinkin
02-12-2011, 10:29 PM
Very unusual. Outrageous imo. I don't care what they think might or might not have happened to him, his little body is somewhere, whether bc he wondered off or foul play and to not take tips is unbelievable.

So if someone thinks they saw something that might mean a new area to search or that they heard something, they aren't to let LE know? :banghead:

I know that if I read that and i had been wondering if I should call in what I knew, i wouldn't.

This is just my opinion, but when LE stops taking tips, I believe they have really narrowed their focus, and have a pretty good idea of the person or persons responsible.

Wouldn't doubt we are hours or a day away from an arrest announcement.

Reality Orlando
02-12-2011, 10:29 PM
I'm not sure if I've told this story before. My son was 17 months old. He and my 4 year old and a friend's 4 year old were playing in the bedroom after breakfast. I went to have a shower. When I came out there was a little chair by the door. 17 month old was gone, and the 4 year old's didn't even know it. They thought he was in another room. The chain latch was undone (I'd locked it) and he had closed the door behind him. He walked from our apartment building 1 block to the main street, crossed the main street at the lights and walked up 3 blocks to the corner store. It was a store we often walked to. He helped himself to the candy rack and the store owner called police as soon as he realized my little guy was alone. I called police as soon as I checked all 3 floors of our building and the yard and parking lot. By the time I called he was already at the police station eating a donut.

I had a similiar experience. My son was about 2 and I was cleaning the kitchen while he was down for a nap. Somehow he got out of our ground floor apartment (it was summer and I'm assuming the screen door wasn't shut properly) and walked through the field out back to the food store where we always shopped. I found him in line, with just a diaper and a T-shirt trying to give a cashier a penny for a pack of gum. I was never so scared in my life! I put a chain lock on all the doors for a long time after that.

Kat
02-12-2011, 10:32 PM
:waitasec:

not taking leads? Strange. Interesting. I'm with you justthinkin something is probably getting ready to happen. At least I hope so, surely LE wouldn't just...<stumped>

JMHO

Noway
02-12-2011, 10:33 PM
If there hadn't been so many people in the house, if the the adults had been showering or sleeping, I think it would be easier to accept that Joshua got out of the house unseen.

Noway
02-12-2011, 10:35 PM
This is just my opinion, but when LE stops taking tips, I believe they have really narrowed their focus, and have a pretty good idea of the person or persons responsible.

Wouldn't doubt we are hours or a day away from an arrest announcement.

That makes sense. There would be no reason to stop taking tips if you still didn't have a clue. JMO

ETA
Guess they could be making someone think they're close.

belimom
02-12-2011, 10:35 PM
:waitasec:

not taking leads? Strange. Interesting. I'm with you justthinkin something is probably getting ready to happen. At least I hope so, surely LE wouldn't just...<stumped>

JMHO

I don't know if it means that something is getting ready to happen soon, but I do think it may mean they have a good idea of what happened. And they don't need the leads, maybe? JMHO

sweetdreams
02-12-2011, 10:36 PM
I just got back from a second ball game in downtown New Braunfels and once again saw helicoptor activity. There was a silver or grey helicoptor with no markings on it going back and forth over the Landa Park area. I saw it make the pass over that area at least 5 times. I have no idea if this is related, but geeze I've seen a lot of helicoptors over New Braunfels today...wish I knew the details.

Yep, in my part of New Braunfels, about 3 miles from Hunter Road and Country Ridge Drive...there was this one red helicopter, with no obvious markings, circling nonstop in about a 3 mile radius. It must have made a circle trip about 10 times. Definitely looking for something, as it was flying slow and somewhat low. Most definitely not a sightseeing helicopter, and not a traffic one either.:maddening:

paris_paris
02-12-2011, 10:36 PM
I found him in line, with just a diaper and a T-shirt trying to give a cashier a penny for a pack of gum

Mine too. Diaper and a t-shirt. Although he had no intention of attempting to pay for what he was taking. LOL.

Police took me to the station to get him, and they were very helpful and did not give me a hard time. They said he was very obviously a happy child.

SailorMoon
02-12-2011, 10:38 PM
No, he or she was younger. Dang, I wish I could remember the case! We were following it here on WS. I remember the parents lived in a rural spot and their home was on a hill surrounded by a vast terrain of trees and brush. I was so happy they found the child!

It was somewhere around Ft. Worth, wasn't it? He was about 2 or 3 and they found him laying next to a pond. Parents couldn't believe he got that far and wondered if someone picked him. Forget how far it was but it was a ways and I think it was during the summer here, wasn't it (meaning 100 plus degree days).

I also wonder about septic tanks. So many children have fallen into them and died. Are there any around there? Have they been checked? I remember a case on here, dad took out the baby to the car or something and the 3 or 4 year old wandered away from the yard and fell into their septic tank and died.

So many possibilities and with so much time having passed, I don't think it will be a good outcome, sad to say.

not_my_kids
02-12-2011, 10:39 PM
I worked with a woman who had a toddler about 18 mos old. She and her hubby were sound asleep and awoke one morning to LE standing over their bed with their son in his arms. :eek: The little guy had unlocked a dead bolt and was standing on the corner down the street from their house. Praise the Lord, a neighbor recognized him! After that, they bought a new dead bolt that required a key on both sides!

That's exactly what we had to do here to keep the now 4 year old in the house. He made it around the corner and a couple blocks up, and that was past a handle lock and a deadbolt. We then added a chain lock way up high, and a neighbor found him in her car at 5 a.m. He had unlocked all three. Now, we have double deadbolt's with no way to open them without the key. It's an extreme measure, but it's the only way to keep him in.

paris_paris
02-12-2011, 10:40 PM
If there hadn't been so many people in the house, if the the adults had been showering or sleeping, I think it would be easier to accept that Joshua got out of the house unseen.

I agree with that. I was just pointing out how crafty a young child can be.

MOO... Little Joshua got out when somebody was leaving and didn't close the door properly. I think he possibly got hit by a vehicle in the driveway (or in the street), and the person who did it covered it up.

edit: I agreed, but still didn't explain how he got out with all those people there and nobody noticing. I have another story. I had a neighbour who lived on the 2nd floor of a house. They had a few people over. Maybe 4 or 5. The downstairs neighbour knocked on the upstairs door. The 3 year old who lived upstairs had fallen over the balcony railing. Downstairs neighbour noticed him laying on the ground. Nobody upstairs noticed him missing. I'm sure he was wailing. He had a broken collar bone, but was otherwise OK.

SailorMoon
02-12-2011, 10:48 PM
Getting hit has crossed my mind also. If one of the people in the house hit him and killed him, and most likely, almost certain an accident, they may be hiding it for the fear of what mom and dad will do to them, how mad/angry/upset they will be. Just a possibility.

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 11:04 PM
But unless LE has found him, how can they cut off leads? That part confuses me...even if they arrest someone, unless they confess, they still need help.

panthera
02-12-2011, 11:10 PM
Getting hit has crossed my mind also. If one of the people in the house hit him and killed him, and most likely, almost certain an accident, they may be hiding it for the fear of what mom and dad will do to them, how mad/angry/upset they will be. Just a possibility.

Or if they had been drinking before getting in the car and hitting him.........therefore facing serious prison time. MOO

Noway
02-12-2011, 11:22 PM
The more I think about them not accepting tips, the more I think they must be close. Why else would you cut off the potential for receiving the tip that solves the case.

Praying they have a suspect, have someone talking, and are waiting only on forensics and locating Joshua.

Joshua, you are in my prayers.

cluciano63
02-12-2011, 11:29 PM
I have never heard of a case when police stopped taking tips. Maybe he was found today.

Fairy1
02-12-2011, 11:41 PM
Whatever has happened, I so wish they would find this little angel baby. I hope and pray he will be found alive and well, but it's possible I've been around here too long to really believe that is the likely outcome. I'm trying, though. He's so precious, I can see someone wanting to have them for their own.

I saw a little baby girl about Joshua's age this morning when we went out to breakfast. She looked so much like him and it was all I could do to keep myself from taking her out of the high-chair and giving her a big kiss and hug. I don't think her family (or my hubby!) would have understood it at all!

Amster
02-13-2011, 12:00 AM
No, he or she was younger. Dang, I wish I could remember the case! We were following it here on WS. I remember the parents lived in a rural spot and their home was on a hill surrounded by a vast terrain of trees and brush. I was so happy they found the child!

Definitely remember that case....a volunteer searcher found her? all tangled up in bushes.

Dee10
02-13-2011, 12:02 AM
If the police aren't not taking tips, I wonder if someone who was "in the know" cracked under questioning? Maybe knew the general area he was taken to, but not the exact area? I have never heard of LE not wanting tips, so I am just thinking out loud.

Kat
02-13-2011, 12:11 AM
I just thought of this:

Who is that lady that gave that statement and who shared the info with her that LE wasn't taking leads?

Didn't the article say she was a family friend?

Should we take it with a grain of salt?

not_my_kids
02-13-2011, 12:28 AM
There was a comment/rumor on a news article a few days ago that someone had seen a child matching Joshua's description in another part of TX, riding in a truck, and supposedly, LE wouldn't take the tip since they didn't have the plate number of the truck. THIS IS A RUMOR/UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIM. NOT FACT.

Makes me wonder if there was any validity to that rumor. I'm sure with the Rangers and the FBI involved, they can't all be refusing to take info from the public. Right?

barb0301
02-13-2011, 12:45 AM
I just thought of this:

Who is that lady that gave that statement and who shared the info with her that LE wasn't taking leads?

Didn't the article say she was a family friend?

Should we take it with a grain of salt?

I would most certainly take the info that the police are no longer taking tips with a grain of salt. That info has not come out on any news source, and in fact, directly contradicts the latest press release, dated yesterday, from the New Braunfels Police Department which states

"At the time of this release the missing child in this case has not been located. Officers will be continuing their search throughout the weekend, and we continue to request the public’s assistance in finding this child. "

http://www.ci.new-braunfels.tx.us/archives/63/Press%20Release%20-%20Missing%20Child%20-%20Updated%20Photo.pdf

I can't find the original post, but believe from the quote that the source may have been a friend of the family and also states that the family organized today's search to follow up on tips that the police have not yet followed up on. In investigations such as this, the family is not usually privy to all the tips that have been received by the police, so I'm wondering what tips and what is the source of those tips? JMO

Continuing to pray for Joshua

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 12:50 AM
I would most certainly take the info that the police are no longer taking tips with a grain of salt. That info has not come out on any news source, and in fact, directly contradicts the latest press release, dated yesterday, from the New Braunfels Police Department which states

"At the time of this release the missing child in this case has not been located. Officers will be continuing their search throughout the weekend, and we continue to request the public’s assistance in finding this child. "

http://www.ci.new-braunfels.tx.us/archives/63/Press%20Release%20-%20Missing%20Child%20-%20Updated%20Photo.pdf

I can't find the original post, but believe from the quote that the source may have been a friend of the family and also states that the family organized today's search to follow up on tips that the police have not yet followed up on. In investigations such as this, the family is not usually privy to all the tips that have been received by the police, so I'm wondering what tips and what is the source of those tips? JMO

Continuing to pray for Joshua

Original quote:

http://herald-zeitung.com/content/tncms/live/herald-zeitung.com/news/local_news/article_eccf8698-36fc-11e0-be18-001cc4c03286.html


Michelle Griffin, family friend, said the family is going through a spiritual battle.

“The police are saying they are no longer taking tips,” Griffin said. “The lines have been jam packed with leads.”

Janeumayer
02-13-2011, 12:57 AM
Joshua was last seen at his home on the afternoon of February 4, 2011. He was last seen wearing a blue and red button down long sleeve shirt, a gray long sleeve Rocawear shirt, dark blue Rocawear jeans, a beige and white Rocawear onesie, a diaper, and black and white socks. He may be in need of medical attention.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&LanguageCountry=en_US&searchLang=en_US&caseLang=en_US&orgPrefix=NCMC&caseNum=1165276&seqNum=1

8 pm is not "the afternoon"

That's what he is wearing in the picture posted above. You can see the gray long sleeve shirt under the plaid one. This must have been taken same day.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s179/janeunayer/Missing20-20Joshua_Davis203_thumbnail.jpg

P.S. Sorry didn't see that this was already mentioned.

MsFacetious
02-13-2011, 01:24 AM
There was a child in the Coos Bay area of Oregon who wandered off and was miraculously found alive. I followed the case about a year or so ago and can't seem to find it now.


Zoey Dorsey - 4 years old - She was missing about 40 hours.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/on_his_own_brookings_man_finds.html

Her mother, Brooke, had picked her up from school that day, according to the Daily Triplicate of Crescent City, Calif., and was walking from the family car into the house when she realized her daughter wasn't with her. Zoey's parents looked for her but couldn't find the child. They called 9-1-1.

Found Alive OR - Zoey Dorsey, 4, Brookings, 17 March 2010 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

MsFacetious
02-13-2011, 01:31 AM
Emmett Trapp ended up 1 mile from home. He actually walked 3-4 miles, through washes, over hills... then circling back into view of homes, to end up a mile away.


Oh wow, that last story is so similar! That boy wandered a mile from home. That is so sad to think of a small child wandering lost, and alone like that. My heart breaks for his family.


Arizona Toddler Emmett Trapp Wandered for Miles Trying to Find Home
Shoeless Boy Wandered Up to 4 Miles Trying to Get Back Home

http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106


I will always believe, that had volunteers been allowed to search he certainly would have been found in time. There would have been more than enough people to cover the area he was in.

YellowSubmarine
02-13-2011, 02:24 AM
Michelle Griffin, family friend, said the family is going through a spiritual battle.

“The police are saying they are no longer taking tips,” Griffin said. “The lines have been jam packed with leads.”


Sure would love to hear what made her say this. I just can't believe LE is telling people they don't want anymore tips. Even if LE had said this, why say it to the public if LE hadn't? She certainly may have just kept someone with a valid tip from calling in. Are they trying to drive a wedge between LE and the public? I wonder if the family has issues with LE and are trying to make them look bad?

mommy23
02-13-2011, 03:19 AM
Just got home from a long day... Prayers for miracle!!! :praying:

SilkySifaka
02-13-2011, 06:41 AM
I don't know if it means that something is getting ready to happen soon, but I do think it may mean they have a good idea of what happened. And they don't need the leads, maybe? JMHO

They don't have the body. They need leads

imo

Trident
02-13-2011, 08:57 AM
Emmett Trapp ended up 1 mile from home. He actually walked 3-4 miles, through washes, over hills... then circling back into view of homes, to end up a mile away.




Arizona Toddler Emmett Trapp Wandered for Miles Trying to Find Home
Shoeless Boy Wandered Up to 4 Miles Trying to Get Back Home

http://abcnews.go.com/US/TheLaw/emmett-trapp-wandered-off/story?id=11323106


I will always believe, that had volunteers been allowed to search he certainly would have been found in time. There would have been more than enough people to cover the area he was in.

I'm not familiar with Emmett's case, but from other cases I've followed, I, who have no experience in SAR can see their search parameters can, in some cases, be not good enough. They need to expand them. I don't know where they get the information/statistics with which they create these parameters, but in many cases, they just don't work - not far enough. For some reason I believe that child is lying in a field further out than they searched. I could be wrong, God knows, but given the Tanya Shannon case, found OUTSIDE search area, and the little girl found waist deep in a swamp by a fellow church member again, OUTSIDE the parameters. I can't remember her name, there are so many missing.

The point being, SAR needs to UPDATE their search parameters. I'm not sure what Sarx means by a circle, but my circle would be 2 1/2 miles out, stick a protractor in the missing point and go around 2 1/2 miles, THEN work INWARD and OUTWARD at the same time. Do NOT send volunteer searchers home, put them to work.

My opinion only

TxLady2
02-13-2011, 09:03 AM
This is just my opinion, but when LE stops taking tips, I believe they have really narrowed their focus, and have a pretty good idea of the person or persons responsible.

Wouldn't doubt we are hours or a day away from an arrest announcement.

No offense, but they better have more than a "pretty good idea." This is a baby who is missing, and a family who is hurting. If they haven't found a body, they can't just assume anything without some hard evidence.

I don't understand them not taking any tips, they just don't do that, IMO. I suppose there could be a lot of whackos calling in stupid stuff just to annoy the police but still.... it doesn't sound right.

TxLady2
02-13-2011, 09:24 AM
I'm not familiar with Emmett's case, but from other cases I've followed, I, who have no experience in SAR can see their search parameters can, in some cases, be not good enough. They need to expand them. I don't know where they get the information/statistics with which they create these parameters, but in many cases, they just don't work - not far enough. For some reason I believe that child is lying in a field further out than they searched. I could be wrong, God knows, but given the Tanya Shannon case, found OUTSIDE search area, and the little girl found waist deep in a swamp by a fellow church member again, OUTSIDE the parameters. I can't remember her name, there are so many missing.

The point being, SAR needs to UPDATE their search parameters. I'm not sure what Sarx means by a circle, but my circle would be 2 1/2 miles out, stick a protractor in the missing point and go around 2 1/2 miles, THEN work INWARD and OUTWARD at the same time. Do NOT send volunteer searchers home, put them to work.

My opinion only

I agree with you. They do need to expand the search out further, and keep expanding until he is found. And NO tip should go unchecked.

cluciano63
02-13-2011, 10:02 AM
I don't believe that LE has "stopped taking tips" until/unless LE says so.
I do think it is unreasonable to expect LE to follow up on a sighting of a baby in a truck, without any plate # or even a partial plate. How many trucks are there in TX and how many babies?

But if LE truly does not have a handle on what happened by now, that is very scary indeed.

belimom
02-13-2011, 10:27 AM
I don't believe that LE has "stopped taking tips" until/unless LE says so.
I do think it is unreasonable to expect LE to follow up on a sighting of a baby in a truck, without any plate # or even a partial plate. How many trucks are there in TX and how many babies?

But if LE truly does not have a handle on what happened by now, that is very scary indeed.

Clu, I agree. I think it's possible they have a good idea of what happened that night but they still do not have little Joshua -- and so they don't know for sure (unless someone is talking).

Based on the wording of the friend's sentence - "no longer taking tips" and then "lines have been jam packed with leads" - she is almost contradicting herself, kwim? She herself used the word "leads" and not something like 'information that's not helping' or whatever.

Also, did LE speak with her directly or is this 3rd-party info that was passed through a few people? I'm guessing LE said something to the effect of the number of leads was hard to handle and sift through (or even something else) that got turned into "no longer taking tips". JMHO

TGIRecovered
02-13-2011, 10:31 AM
I wish we had more info on the search the parents and friends were conducting today, ie. exactly where they were intending to conduct their search, and if they were allowed by LE to go forward with that search.

If that search is taking place, and should locate the missing Joshua when none of the vast searches by LE have done so, it's going to be hinkey to me IYKWIM, ala JR finding Jonbenet in the basement.

This is exactly why I believe that anyone who was present at the time of the disappearance or anyone very close to a possible POI should never search. Too much chance of contaminating evidencs, giving the real killer's defense lawyer something to use to cause reasonable doubt. Those close to a suspect (such as parents of a suspect) have been known to be willing to do anything to keep their adult child out of prison.

Can you imagine how horrible it would be to find your dead child and not be able to bring the killer to justice because of suspicion that you knew where to look or killed your child yourself?:twocents:

Truthwillsetufree
02-13-2011, 10:37 AM
Just to jump in with my 2 cents here...if I thought I had seen this baby or had a credible tip and LE wouldn't take my info over the phone, I would just beat feet right on down to the Police Station and make darned sure someone took my information.....

Truthwillsetufree
02-13-2011, 10:41 AM
This is exactly why I believe that anyone who was present at the time of the disappearance or anyone very close to a possible POI should never search. Too much chance of contaminating evidencs, giving the real killer's defense lawyer something to use to cause reasonable doubt. Those close to a suspect (such as parents of a suspect) have been known to be willing to do anything to keep their adult child out of prison.

Can you imagine how horrible it would be to find your dead child and not be able to bring the killer to justice because of suspicion that you knew where to look or killed your child yourself?:twocents:

I agree with you. Yes, the horrific thought of finding your missing child in a field or anywhere....I would just suggest to the parents to help at a command post.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 10:53 AM
This is exactly why I believe that anyone who was present at the time of the disappearance or anyone very close to a possible POI should never search. Too much chance of contaminating evidencs, giving the real killer's defense lawyer something to use to cause reasonable doubt. Those close to a suspect (such as parents of a suspect) have been known to be willing to do anything to keep their adult child out of prison.

Can you imagine how horrible it would be to find your dead child and not be able to bring the killer to justice because of suspicion that you knew where to look or killed your child yourself?:twocents:

Exactly, think about the police in Denver having Mr. Ramsey search their house looking for Jon Benet.

Truthwillsetufree
02-13-2011, 10:58 AM
I don't know if any of this has been mentioned but thought I would post some of this info.....
New Braunfels Pop in 2009 - 61,572
Located in between Austin and San Antonio
Comal River is right there.
In the summer has a huge tourist population.
Beautiful area with lots of trees and vegetation. Rolling Hills in the lanscape, I'm guessing that is why it's called The Hill Country.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 11:04 AM
I don't know if any of this has been mentioned but thought I would post some of this info.....
New Braunfels Pop in 2009 - 61,572
Located in between Austin and San Antonio
Comal River is right there.
In the summer has a huge tourist population.
Beautiful area with lots of trees and vegetation. Rolling Hills in the lanscape, I'm guessing that is why it's called The Hill Country.

To add: New Braunfels is also a weekend destination for people who live in San Antonio, along with other "Hill Country" areas. There are also people who move to New Braufels, and commute to work each day in San Antonio. My husband's friend at work just bought a house out there. There are many new housing subdivisions to accommodate the expanding population.

We tend to think of it as kind of a suburb.

Truthwillsetufree
02-13-2011, 11:15 AM
To add: New Braunfels is also a weekend destination for people who live in San Antonio, along with other "Hill Country" areas. There are also people who move to New Braufels, and commute to work each day in San Antonio. My husband's friend at work just bought a house out there. There are many new housing subdivisions to accommodate the expanding population.

We tend to think of it as kind of a suburb.

Love, Love, Love New Braunfels. My family is in fact "Tourists" there in the summer. Floating the river and shopping is Fabulous. Beautiful town. To me, a very safe and peaceful place but upon reading some info it appears that the violent crime rate is higher than the Texas average...Hmmmm.
http://www.idcide.com/citydata/tx/new-braunfels.htm

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 11:23 AM
Love, Love, Love New Braunfels. My family is in fact "Tourists" there in the summer. Floating the river and shopping is Fabulous. Beautiful town. To me, a very safe and peaceful place but upon reading some info it appears that the violent crime rate is higher than the Texas average...Hmmmm.
http://www.idcide.com/citydata/tx/new-braunfels.htm

Huh? According to your link, it's lower:

http://i51.tinypic.com/14mtb81.png

Truthwillsetufree
02-13-2011, 11:44 AM
Huh? According to your link, it's lower:

http://i51.tinypic.com/14mtb81.png

Excuse my error!!! It's the property crime rate that is higher, so sorry, misread.

*New Braunfels's property crime levels tend to be higher than Texas's average level. The same data shows violent crime levels in New Braunfels tend to be about the same as Texas's average level. *

http://www.idcide.com/citydata/tx/new-braunfels.htm

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 11:50 AM
Excuse my error!!! It's the property crime rate that is higher, so sorry, misread.

*New Braunfels's property crime levels tend to be higher than Texas's average level. The same data shows violent crime levels in New Braunfels tend to be about the same as Texas's average level. *

http://www.idcide.com/citydata/tx/new-braunfels.htm

No prob! I had to look twice to make sure, because the charts are in what I would consider a backward order. Oldest info to newest.

Not that I think it's connected in this case but:

It's funny that the violent crime dropped dramatically (by half) in 2003:

http://i51.tinypic.com/14mtb81.png

ETA- I guess that is another reason I tend toward the accident theory. We tend to think of New Braunfels as a quiet little bedroom community. As a matter of fact, many of the people that move there from here do so because they want to get away from the city.

justthinkin
02-13-2011, 12:57 PM
I don't know if any of this has been mentioned but thought I would post some of this info.....
New Braunfels Pop in 2009 - 61,572
Located in between Austin and San Antonio
Comal River is right there.
In the summer has a huge tourist population.
Beautiful area with lots of trees and vegetation. Rolling Hills in the lanscape, I'm guessing that is why it's called The Hill Country.

It's beautiful area alright, but sometimes baked with near 100 degree temps from June through August, and with a portion of September thrown in for good measure.

justthinkin
02-13-2011, 01:11 PM
No offense, but they better have more than a "pretty good idea." This is a baby who is missing, and a family who is hurting. If they haven't found a body, they can't just assume anything without some hard evidence.

I don't understand them not taking any tips, they just don't do that, IMO. I suppose there could be a lot of whackos calling in stupid stuff just to annoy the police but still.... it doesn't sound right.

Well I never expressed that I thought LE would be assuming anything. I thought perhaps some preliminary reports had been rec'd. from the FBI forensics unit.

OTOH, perhaps LE did say or allow it to leak out that they weren't taking any more leads hoping to put the squeeze on someone or make them sweat, hoping for a confession. LE can put out bogus statements at times, and do do that if it aids in bringing about a confession.

Then again with as much time as has now elapsed, I'm thinking this was bad information period. This wouldn't be the first case where a family got crosswise with LE, and if that is what is happening.

not_my_kids
02-13-2011, 01:44 PM
They have a dedicated tip line number according to the LE presser. Easy answer to all the questions would be to call the number and ask if they are still accepting tips...MOO.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 02:05 PM
I felt a bit better after the cases of kids wandering off, then being found alive, were mentioned. But thinking about the harsh weather we've had during the time he's been missing takes any hope away from me.

I am a bit intrigued by the family's thoughts that he's been kidnapped, though. I'm not sure why they would believe that. Perhaps wishful thinking that he's not out in the elements, and he might be returned unharmed?

I imagine that parents would do a lot to convince themselves that their child might be okay. Ya know, not wanting to think the worst.

panthera
02-13-2011, 02:09 PM
I felt a bit better after the cases of kids wandering off, then being found alive, were mentioned. But thinking about the harsh weather we've had during the time he's been missing takes any hope away from me.

I am a bit intrigued by the family's thoughts that he's been kidnapped, though. I'm not sure why they would believe that. Perhaps wishful thinking that he's not out in the elements, and he might be returned unharmed?

I imagine that parents would do a lot to convince themselves that their child might be okay. Ya know, not wanting to think the worst.

I also am still curious if the family has any strong indication or reason to believe that someone may have taken Joshua, or if as you say, it may be wishful thinking that he is still alive. MOO

TxLady2
02-13-2011, 02:30 PM
Well I never expressed that I thought LE would be assuming anything. I thought perhaps some preliminary reports had been rec'd. from the FBI forensics unit.

OTOH, perhaps LE did say or allow it to leak out that they weren't taking any more leads hoping to put the squeeze on someone or make them sweat, hoping for a confession. LE can put out bogus statements at times, and do do that if it aids in bringing about a confession.

Then again with as much time as has now elapsed, I'm thinking this was bad information period. This wouldn't be the first case where a family got crosswise with LE, and if that is what is happening.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you thought that. But to me, it wouldn't be wise to make a statement like that, considering it makes them look like they are not trying too hard to find him.
I think they might say that, as you said to put the squeeze on someone IF they thought one or both the parents are hiding something, but judging from what I've seen, I just don't believe either one of them are guilty of anything. I could be wrong, I often am... but I don't believe anything happened to Joshua in that house.

TxLady2
02-13-2011, 02:45 PM
I felt a bit better after the cases of kids wandering off, then being found alive, were mentioned. But thinking about the harsh weather we've had during the time he's been missing takes any hope away from me.

I am a bit intrigued by the family's thoughts that he's been kidnapped, though. I'm not sure why they would believe that. Perhaps wishful thinking that he's not out in the elements, and he might be returned unharmed?

I imagine that parents would do a lot to convince themselves that their child might be okay. Ya know, not wanting to think the worst.

I think it's pretty common for parents to think their child was kidnapped when one goes missing. When a child is kidnapped there is always hope that he/she will be taken care of and not killed. Most parents would hold out hope. I'm sure they don't want to think Joshua was lost and died in the below freezing temperatures, scared and alone.

mkay882
02-13-2011, 03:08 PM
Seeing the post about vultures up thread reminded me of the child who was camping with his *adopted* family, came up missing and was found by a local who, while on a search, spotted buzzards and went to investigate.
It was his remains.
Sadly I cannot recall his name.. :(

Dee10
02-13-2011, 03:13 PM
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texashttp://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/mag-glass_10x10.gif (http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Volunteers-go-door-to-door-searching-for-Baby/yhS7fMMwGEyrugEmeOW75Q.cspx?rss=68#) - Police, Texas Rangers and the FBI had more than 100 extra hands to help in the search for Joshua Davis Junior. A church organized its own search for the missing 18-month-old.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Volunteers-go-door-to-door-searching-for-Baby/yhS7fMMwGEyrugEmeOW75Q.cspx?rss=68

Columbo
02-13-2011, 03:16 PM
Ok, I can see how a toddler can get outside and toddle about for a while...but miles? I know I can't walk miles, even though I have many more years experience at walking, and certainly not in cold, ice and/or snow...without shoes?

Yes! And the steps from the trailer were ICY--this would be a definite problem, I don't think he could have even gotten down the steps safely.

Sorry, I meant to say "mobile home" not "trailer" !!

panthera
02-13-2011, 03:19 PM
Yes! And the steps from the trailer were ICY--this would be a definite problem, I don't think he could have even gotten down the steps safely.

After seeing the mobile home, I don't either. It didn't have an extended porch covering the stairs. It also seems the cold air would hit inside as soon as the door opened, so the possibility of it being left open would also be noticed. MOO

Noway
02-13-2011, 03:43 PM
After seeing the mobile home, I don't either. It didn't have an extended porch covering the stairs. It also seems the cold air would hit inside as soon as the door opened, so the possibility of it being left open would also be noticed. MOO

Someone asked earlier whether it was their habit to go outside to smoke. With the cold temps, I wonder if the door wasn't left open and they smoked inside.

I don't smoke, but was always amazed at the number of coworkers freezing their butts off in below 0 temps to smoke. The addiction being that great, and not being allowed to smoke in the office, they went outside.

If the door had been left open to accommodate smokers staying inside, the colder air would have been the norm.

LCoastMom
02-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Seeing the post about vultures up thread reminded me of the child who was camping with his *adopted* family, came up missing and was found by a local who, while on a search, spotted buzzards and went to investigate.
It was his remains.
Sadly I cannot recall his name.. :(

Sylar Newton. The "local" who had been searching on his own after LE called off the official search later found out Sylar was a distant cousin of his.

Charges (for drugs) were finally brought against his "custodial mother" and her mother in late Dec. They are sitting in jail as we speak.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Yes! And the steps from the trailer were ICY--this would be a definite problem, I don't think he could have even gotten down the steps safely.

Sorry, I meant to say "mobile home" not "trailer" !!

That's why I think there is the possibility of him being carried off. I don't think he would have gotten too far. Looking at the terrain surrounding the home. He could be anywhere, and you would have to be right on top of the spot before seeing him. :(

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Someone asked earlier whether it was their habit to go outside to smoke. With the cold temps, I wonder if the door wasn't left open and they smoked inside.

I don't smoke, but was always amazed at the number of coworkers freezing their butts off in below 0 temps to smoke. The addiction being that great, and not being allowed to smoke in the office, they went outside.

If the door had been left open to accommodate smokers staying inside, the colder air would have been the norm.

As an ex-smoker, and one who hates the cold, I have often held the door open and stuck my head out to sneak a quick smoke.

Noway
02-13-2011, 03:51 PM
From Dee's article above, I can't tell whether Joshua had been known to walk out the door before or if this woman was referring to her own child.

"If this was my child and I know he has walked out the door before and a lot of mothers struggle with this. But we are hoping we will be able to bring him home,” said Flack.

katydid23
02-13-2011, 03:53 PM
Someone asked earlier whether it was their habit to go outside to smoke. With the cold temps, I wonder if the door wasn't left open and they smoked inside.

I don't smoke, but was always amazed at the number of coworkers freezing their butts off in below 0 temps to smoke. The addiction being that great, and not being allowed to smoke in the office, they went outside.

If the door had been left open to accommodate smokers staying inside, the colder air would have been the norm.

Normally, I would agree. But Joshua had asthma and needed a nebulizer at 18 months. That is a pretty severe case of asthma for a little guy. So IF the parents let someone smoke from inside the mobile home I would be surprised.
[ Of course stranger things have happened.]

Noway
02-13-2011, 04:04 PM
They may have felt that opening the door was enough to offset the effects.

My own son had to have breathing treatments and albuterol when he was this age (bronchitis and what they call "undiagnosed asthma"). The cold air was also a relief to him and I went outside with him many a night.

It surprises me that they smoke at all, knowing that secondhand smoke can trigger an asthmatic episode.

I wonder whether anyone reported going outside for a smoke.

ETA
I know from personal experience how warm a houseful of people can get. So windows get opened, doors too for a period of time, just to cool things off.

If someone went out for a smoke, they may have been asked to leave the door open for a few minutes.

cluciano63
02-13-2011, 04:08 PM
It's not really known how Sylar got to where he was found...I don't think he walked there on his own, personally.

LCoastMom
02-13-2011, 04:12 PM
Just to jump in with my 2 cents here...if I thought I had seen this baby or had a credible tip and LE wouldn't take my info over the phone, I would just beat feet right on down to the Police Station and make darned sure someone took my information.....

I was just thinking the same thing. Not some, "Have you checked the Safety Store Warehouse - they could have him stashed there!?!"

But if I thought I had seen a missing baby and LE wouldn't take my information, I'd find someone who would.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 04:18 PM
They may have felt that opening the door was enough to offset the effects.

My own son had to have breathing treatments and albuterol when he was this age (bronchitis and what they call "undiagnosed asthma"). The cold air was also a relief to him and I went outside with him many a night.

It surprises me that they smoke at all, knowing that secondhand smoke can trigger an asthmatic episode.

I wonder whether anyone reported going outside for a smoke.

ETA
I know from personal experience how warm a houseful of people can get. So windows get opened, doors too for a period of time, just to cool things off.

If someone went out for a smoke, they may have been asked to leave the door open for a few minutes.

ooohh...good point, Noway. Especially in small houses, a big crowd can make it hot and stuffy pretty quick. I think though, that propping or leaving the door open would have been mentioned already. I wonder, though, it seems like we are missing lots of puzzle pieces here.

I would think the possibility of Joshua slipping out, when someone entered or exited, is more likely. I think he fell or got down the stairs. Somehow he was injured, and carried off by some kind of animal.

I'm having trouble fitting the facts that we know with other scenarios, like kidnapping.

LCoastMom
02-13-2011, 04:23 PM
It's not really known how Sylar got to where he was found...I don't think he walked there on his own, personally.

No one thinks he got there on his own, since he was out cold, couldn't be aroused at the campsite and died with cold medicine, pain medicine and custodial-momster dearest's anticonvulsant medication on board! But so far, those who know aren't talking. I'm still hoping the threat of a good long stint in Sheriff Joe's Tent City 'n chain gang will loosen their lips.

She who talks first, get's the best deal.

not_my_kids
02-13-2011, 04:27 PM
Joshua's parents believe he walked out of their New Braufels home last Friday afternoon.
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Volunteers-go-door-to-door-searching-for-Baby/yhS7fMMwGEyrugEmeOW75Q.cspx

I thought they thought someone took him and LE thought he walked away...

panthera
02-13-2011, 04:33 PM
Someone asked earlier whether it was their habit to go outside to smoke. With the cold temps, I wonder if the door wasn't left open and they smoked inside.

I don't smoke, but was always amazed at the number of coworkers freezing their butts off in below 0 temps to smoke. The addiction being that great, and not being allowed to smoke in the office, they went outside.

If the door had been left open to accommodate smokers staying inside, the colder air would have been the norm.

I'd hate to think of people smoking indoors with the poor little boy having asthma. :( MOO

cluciano63
02-13-2011, 04:33 PM
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas - Police, Texas Rangers and the FBI had more than 100 extra hands to help in the search for Joshua Davis Junior. A church organized its own search for the missing 18-month-old.

The volunteers gathered in prayer before walking door-to-door and handing out flyers. Angie Flack was one of the volunteers. She has a son around the same age and believes Baby Joshua is still alive.

“If this was my child and I know he has walked out the door before and a lot of mothers struggle with this. But we are hoping we will be able to bring him home,” said Flack.
Joshua's parents believe he walked out of their New Braufels home last Friday afternoon.

If you have any information, contact Comal County Crime Stoppers at (830) 221-4100.

Wow that is one confusing, incomplete sentence...:(
But on another note, I thought his parents were so sure he was taken? Now they believe he walked away?

Noway
02-13-2011, 04:35 PM
For anyone else who'd like to read about Sylar Newton at WS.

There are multiple threads. This link brings you to Thread 1.

ETA
This is the first post in Thread 5 that has a link to Threads 1-4

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased AZ- Sylar Newton, 2, Rimrock/Beaver Creek Campgrd, 25 July 2010 - #5

panthera
02-13-2011, 04:41 PM
NEW BRAUNFELS, Texas - Police, Texas Rangers and the FBI had more than 100 extra hands to help in the search for Joshua Davis Junior. A church organized its own search for the missing 18-month-old.

The volunteers gathered in prayer before walking door-to-door and handing out flyers. Angie Flack was one of the volunteers. She has a son around the same age and believes Baby Joshua is still alive.

“If this was my child and I know he has walked out the door before and a lot of mothers struggle with this. But we are hoping we will be able to bring him home,” said Flack.
Joshua's parents believe he walked out of their New Braufels home last Friday afternoon.

If you have any information, contact Comal County Crime Stoppers at (830) 221-4100.

Wow that is one confusing, incomplete sentence...:(
But on another note, I thought his parents were so sure he was taken? Now they believe he walked away?
Also, how does 8:00pm become "afternoon"? :waitasec:

Nicki077
02-13-2011, 04:50 PM
Afternoon??? Has this been stated anywhere before? I have always read evening (between 8 and 9). Now I am really confused.

Noway
02-13-2011, 04:50 PM
The NCMEC poster also said he was last seen in the afternoon.

Circumstances: Joshua was last seen at his home on the afternoon of February 4, 2011. He was last seen wearing a blue and red button down long sleeve shirt, a gray long sleeve Rocawear shirt, dark blue Rocawear jeans, a beige and white Rocawear onesie, a diaper, and black and white socks. He may be in need of medical attention.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1165276&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

cluciano63
02-13-2011, 04:53 PM
Maybe the "afternoon" came about from a translation at some point and was not corrected? In the winter, even if it was 7pm-ish, it could by no means be considered "afternoon"-unless that is when he was last seen by someone outside of the family.

peeples
02-13-2011, 04:54 PM
I"m guessing none of the visitors can place him at the home.. .like someone said earlier.... maybe they were told he was in the back bedroom etc..

Noway
02-13-2011, 04:58 PM
Maybe the "afternoon" came about from a translation at some point and was not corrected? In the winter, even if it was 7pm-ish, it could by no means be considered "afternoon"-unless that is when he was last seen by someone outside of the family.

What translation would need to take place?

IIRC he was reported missing when Grandpa called 911. That was either at 8:38 p.m. or police responded at that time (read both).

Does Grandpa not speak English well? Is that who you choose to call 911?

eta
Texas Rangers are assisting with the investigation and the first of several K-9 units has been brought in to aid with the ground search. Joshua, 18 months old, was reported missing at 8:38 p.m. Friday.
http://herald-zeitung.com/news/community_alert/article_3c448f5c-32f7-11e0-b8d6-001cc4c002e0.htm


NEW BRAUNFELS - On Friday at 8:38 p.m. officers in the New Braunfels Police Department responded to ...
herald-zeitung.com/news

(can't access now)

not_my_kids
02-13-2011, 05:11 PM
What translation would need to take place?

IIRC he was reported missing when Grandpa called 911. That was either at 8:38 p.m. or police responded at that time (read both).

Does Grandpa not speak English well? Is that who you choose to call 911?

eta
Texas Rangers are assisting with the investigation and the first of several K-9 units has been brought in to aid with the ground search. Joshua, 18 months old, was reported missing at 8:38 p.m. Friday.
http://herald-zeitung.com/news/community_alert/article_3c448f5c-32f7-11e0-b8d6-001cc4c002e0.htm


NEW BRAUNFELS - This morning at 2:16 a.m., an officer with the New Braunfels ... NEW BRAUNFELS - On Friday at 8:38 p.m. officers in the New Braunfels Police Department responded to ...
herald-zeitung.com/news

[/LIST]

Grandfather seems to speak English well, at least he did on the news video. As I understood it from the LE presser, the first officer arrived at 8:30 p.m.

not_my_kids
02-13-2011, 05:12 PM
What translation would need to take place?

IIRC he was reported missing when Grandpa called 911. That was either at 8:38 p.m. or police responded at that time (read both).

Does Grandpa not speak English well? Is that who you choose to call 911?

eta
Texas Rangers are assisting with the investigation and the first of several K-9 units has been brought in to aid with the ground search. Joshua, 18 months old, was reported missing at 8:38 p.m. Friday.
http://herald-zeitung.com/news/community_alert/article_3c448f5c-32f7-11e0-b8d6-001cc4c002e0.htm


NEW BRAUNFELS - This morning at 2:16 a.m., an officer with the New Braunfels ... NEW BRAUNFELS - On Friday at 8:38 p.m. officers in the New Braunfels Police Department responded to ...
herald-zeitung.com/news

[/LIST]

Grandfather seems to speak English well, at least he did on the news video. As I understood it from the LE presser, the first officer arrived at 8:38 p.m., even though I typoed that to 8:30 p.m.when I was transcribing. Ooopsie on my part.

Noway
02-13-2011, 05:15 PM
I edited my post and added the links I had regarding the time, although one isn't available to me.

MsFacetious
02-13-2011, 05:16 PM
Joshua's parents believe he walked out of their New Braufels home last Friday afternoon.
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Volunteers-go-door-to-door-searching-for-Baby/yhS7fMMwGEyrugEmeOW75Q.cspx

I thought they thought someone took him and LE thought he walked away...

This is just as incomplete as the rest of the article.

They believe that he initially got out of the house.... THEN was abducted. They have maintained that all along.

They don't think he is is close, BECAUSE the dogs have not found him. They are putting all their faith into the dogs and since they dogs don't find his scent leaving the yard, they feel he didn't walk out of there.

Noway
02-13-2011, 05:21 PM
Maybe that is not the type of translation Cluciano meant then. Just the translation between the person reporting Joshua's disappearance to the person at NCMEC.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 05:27 PM
This is just as incomplete as the rest of the article.

They believe that he initially got out of the house.... THEN was abducted. They have maintained that all along.

They don't think he is is close, BECAUSE the dogs have not found him. They are putting all their faith into the dogs and since they dogs don't find his scent leaving the yard, they feel he didn't walk out of there.

Yep, that's how I understood it. That's why I think they're reaching for an explanation that might include him being returned unharmed. I can't say I blame them. It would probably tear me apart to think of my baby out there all alone.

Him wandering outside at just the right moment to be snatched by someone, is just so unlikely. They're in a somewhat remote area, none of those streets are through streets. The abductor would have to purposely be there. I doubt it would be someone who just happens to drive down a dead end road.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 05:29 PM
Maybe that is not the type of translation Cluciano meant then. Just the translation between the person reporting Joshua's disappearance to the person at NCMEC.

Yep, and I think that article is just poorly written. Kind of a combination of a poorly worded quote, and a reporter not being thorough.

panthera
02-13-2011, 05:31 PM
Yep, that's how I understood it. That's why I think they're reaching for an explanation that might include him being returned unharmed. I can't say I blame them. It would probably tear me apart to think of my baby out there all alone.

Him wandering outside at just the right moment to be snatched by someone, is just so unlikely. They're in a somewhat remote area, none of those streets are through streets. The abductor would have to purposely be there. I doubt it would be someone who just happens to drive down a dead end road.

Unless someone was outside waiting for the opportunity, I highly doubt that is what happened either. MOO

Noway
02-13-2011, 05:57 PM
Did I read somewhere that neighbors were also having a party?

eta
It may have been in Comments and would be considered rumor. (Am looking again.)

YellowSubmarine
02-13-2011, 06:16 PM
This is exactly why I believe that anyone who was present at the time of the disappearance or anyone very close to a possible POI should never search. Too much chance of contaminating evidencs, giving the real killer's defense lawyer something to use to cause reasonable doubt. Those close to a suspect (such as parents of a suspect) have been known to be willing to do anything to keep their adult child out of prison.

Can you imagine how horrible it would be to find your dead child and not be able to bring the killer to justice because of suspicion that you knew where to look or killed your child yourself?:twocents:



I agree. When I saw the pic of JD helping LE search the garbage can, I thought WTH? I was wondering why on Earth he'd even want to search, just in case, which made me think maybe he knew he wasn't there? I also wonder if LE purposely had him help search just to watch his demeanor/body language etc, because I have NEVER heard of a parent assisting LE in searching a dumpster for the body of their baby.

YellowSubmarine
02-13-2011, 06:26 PM
ooohh...good point, Noway. Especially in small houses, a big crowd can make it hot and stuffy pretty quick. I think though, that propping or leaving the door open would have been mentioned already. I wonder, though, it seems like we are missing lots of puzzle pieces here.

I would think the possibility of Joshua slipping out, when someone entered or exited, is more likely. I think he fell or got down the stairs. Somehow he was injured, and carried off by some kind of animal.

I'm having trouble fitting the facts that we know with other scenarios, like kidnapping.


SB stated the door was closed and he wouldn't have been able to reach the knob to turn it.



ETA: Link http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/10/ng.02.html


BENITEZ: He can`t reach the doorknob. Like, he reaches maybe to the bottom of it, but he can`t reach tall enough to where he could turn the doorknob.

GRACE: Well, if he can`t reach the doorknob, then how did he get out?

BENITEZ: That`s what I want to know.


GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. Straight out to Michael Board, WOAI Newsradio, joining us there in San Antonio, Texas. Michael, the whole thing is farfetched. I talked to the mom myself. She told me that there were nine people in the home total. That this little boy could go to the door -- everybody knows at that age, they can turn a latch, but she said -- a lock. But she said he couldn`t twist the doorknob.


BENITEZ: The only way he could have got out was the front door. The screen door might not close properly and he could find (ph) himself and push the door open. But like I said, that door had been closed all day.


Looking through these statements, I find that last one odd. She's saying he couldn't have gotten out because the door had been closed all day. But, in reality, it had been opened and closed several times - at least with the people that had come in and out. Even she admitted there was the "family friend" who had gone in and out several times, that's not including the others. Technically, the door hadn't been closed all day.

Another statement I came across that stood out to me was this one:


GRACE: I thought the theory was that somehow, he had managed to turn the doorknob and get out the door. But you`re saying he absolutely could not do that, right?

BENITEZ: Yes. I know he`s still alive.

Sure, this could just be a nervous mom desperately holding out hope -- but it's a little strange that when asked if he could open the door, SB answers that she knows he's still alive. Odd . . . .

Noway
02-13-2011, 06:32 PM
But SB was in the bedroom watching Toy Story. How would she know whether the door was open or not?

CuriousHousewife
02-13-2011, 06:37 PM
Unless someone was outside waiting for the opportunity, I highly doubt that is what happened either. MOO

I've thought over and over this since the story broke. I have two children (one teen, one in elementary school), so I am sufficiently paranoid, but I cannot imagine such a coincidence happening, although I suppose that it's not *impossible*?

Noway
02-13-2011, 06:41 PM
Your Role in the Search: The First 48 Hours
In the initial stage of the search, devote your time to providing information to and answering questions from investigators.

Once you discover that your child is missing, you will desperately want to help with the search. You may, in fact, wonder how you possibly can stand by and let others look for your child. But the reality is that in most instances, the best use of your energy is not on the physical search itself. Rather, you need to provide information to and answer questions from investigators and to be at home in the event your child calls or returns.

The checklist Gathering Evidence in the First 48 Hours identifies the most crucial pieces of background information and evidence that law enforcement will need in the search for your child.

AND

After the First 48 Hours: The Long-Term Search

When the search for a child becomes long-term, not all parents can or will want to be actively involved in the search. It is okay if you choose not to be involved. But if you want to remain active in the long-term search effort, there are a number of things that you and other family members, friends, or volunteers can do to aid in the process.

(See p. 24 of link)

http://www.missingkids.com/en_US/publications/fam_surv.pdf

panthera
02-13-2011, 06:49 PM
I've thought over and over this since the story broke. I have two children (one teen, one in elementary school), so I am sufficiently paranoid, but I cannot imagine such a coincidence happening, although I suppose that it's not *impossible*?

I can't see this scenario either unless it was someone who specifically wanted to take Joshua.

YellowSubmarine
02-13-2011, 06:50 PM
But SB was in the bedroom watching Toy Story. How would she know whether the door was open or not?


EXACTLY! That's just another part of the story that isn't really adding up.

YellowSubmarine
02-13-2011, 06:53 PM
I can't see this scenario either unless it was someone who specifically wanted to take Joshua.


I think it's certainly possible someone was trying to get back at the family for something. Someone held a grudge. Someone was getting revenge. Baby Josh may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. JMO, of course.

CuriousHousewife
02-13-2011, 06:53 PM
I can't see this scenario either unless it was someone who specifically wanted to take Joshua.

Exactly. And really...what are the chances it worked out perfectly in their favor that particular day? I don't buy it.

CuriousHousewife
02-13-2011, 06:59 PM
I was also surprised that Nancy was able to hold back when she realized that mother was now saying that there's no way he could have opened the door on his own. I remember watching that night and seeing that look come over Nancy's face like "ohh reeeeallllly".

Kat
02-13-2011, 07:07 PM
Checking in today for Joshua. I had to make time today for him.

I had asked earlier about who reports the information to NCMEC: LE or Parents.

It was posted (by Noway if IIRC) that the Parents can report their missing child. (The reason I had asked is that there is differing criteria with different missing children websites).

NCMEC has that he was last seen in the afternoon. The 911 call came in after 8 PM. (I know the exact time is listed a few posts back) and that 911 call was made by a Grandparent not a Parent.

My only thought is that one of us could email the NCMEC and respectfully ask why there is a difference in time? It could have been a mistake on NCMEC's part when they typed it up (it can happen, I've seen posters corrected before, human error not a big deal) or if they were given that info that he was last seen in the afternoon. If so, who reported that info? Parents or LE?

Not trying to be a noodge--seriously---but IMHO this is kind of important. If there was a mistake it needs to be corrected. If not, we need to know who gave that info about the afternoon. KWIM?

I don't have time to today to compose an email or I would. I'm sorry.

All JMHO.

katydid23
02-13-2011, 07:13 PM
I can't see this scenario either unless it was someone who specifically wanted to take Joshua.

But there was at least one RSO who lived right across the street. And birds of a feather tend to flock together. So IF a sex offender happened to be sitting in front of the living room window, and saw a little boy toddling down the road by himself....it is possible imo.

And just because LE says the RSO is cleared, it doesn't mean it is entirely so. Remember the Jessica Lunsford case.

Noway
02-13-2011, 07:16 PM
It was me who posted that. I had thought LE had to report it and was surprised to find instructions telling parents to do so (after notifying LE).

https://secure.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=244

After you have reported your child missing to law enforcement, call the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children (NCMEC) on our toll-free telephone number: 1-800-THE-LOST (1-800-843-5678). Or you can use our Live Hotline (https://secure.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=992&PageId=375)to talk to NCMEC through our web site.


Looking around to see if/how you can ask for corrections. FYI, NCMEC maintains a 24-hour hotline and all calls are recorded.

cluciano63
02-13-2011, 07:21 PM
The only scenario that makes sense to me and involves a stranger would be if the RSO across the street happened to see the baby toddle outside and dared to race across the street, grab him and secrete him within his home, in the blink of an eye. Yes, it could have happened, but I don't believe even as I type it.

panthera
02-13-2011, 07:23 PM
I think it's certainly possible someone was trying to get back at the family for something. Someone held a grudge. Someone was getting revenge. Baby Josh may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. JMO, of course.

I also think this is a possibility; not a stranger or a RSO, but someone who knew them. MOO

Dee10
02-13-2011, 07:26 PM
But there was at least one RSO who lived right across the street. And birds of a feather tend to flock together. So IF a sex offender happened to be sitting in front of the living room window, and saw a little boy toddling down the road by himself....it is possible imo.

And just because LE says the RSO is cleared, it doesn't mean it is entirely so. Remember the Jessica Lunsford case.

IIRC the guy who lived across the street was charged with molesting a teenage girl, but I see your point if someone else was visiting him.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 07:31 PM
I was also surprised that Nancy was able to hold back when she realized that mother was now saying that there's no way he could have opened the door on his own. I remember watching that night and seeing that look come over Nancy's face like "ohh reeeeallllly".

The thing that gets to me about that 'absolute' statement, that he could NOT open the door is that I would have sworn that my daughter couldn't reach or unlock our door up until she did it.

She was halfway down the block, before we realized she had left the house. We had to install double-keyed dead locks on all the doors.

She shouldn't assume that because he couldn't do something yesterday, he can't do it today.

CuriousHousewife
02-13-2011, 07:32 PM
But there was at least one RSO who lived right across the street. And birds of a feather tend to flock together. So IF a sex offender happened to be sitting in front of the living room window, and saw a little boy toddling down the road by himself....it is possible imo.

And just because LE says the RSO is cleared, it doesn't mean it is entirely so. Remember the Jessica Lunsford case.

Yes, I agree that it's a *possibility*, it would be quite a coincidence, IMO. I don't know why I feel this way, I just do. I know it happens. I don't think it did in this case. I am not sure if I hope I am wrong or not.

katydid23
02-13-2011, 07:34 PM
What are the possible scenarios?

1. He slipped through the door unnoticed.

a. wandered off and got lost in the scrub
b. wandered off and fell into water
c. wandered off and was abducted or 'saved' by some one
d. ran into road/struck by car/ hidden

2. He died accidentally in the home

3. He was hurt/abused by someone in the home

4. He was abducted from the home by one of the adults or by a stranger

What did I miss? Any other possible scenarios?

CuriousHousewife
02-13-2011, 07:36 PM
Those are the only scenarios I can think of.

katydid23
02-13-2011, 07:36 PM
IIRC the guy who lived across the street was charged with molesting a teenage girl, but I see your point if someone else was visiting him.

I know, but RSO's often have friends that are also RSO's.

And the only crime we know that he committed was with a teen girl. But plenty of sex offenders have varied tastes. And many are opportunistic offenders as well.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 07:40 PM
I agree. When I saw the pic of JD helping LE search the garbage can, I thought WTH? I was wondering why on Earth he'd even want to search, just in case, which made me think maybe he knew he wasn't there? I also wonder if LE purposely had him help search just to watch his demeanor/body language etc, because I have NEVER heard of a parent assisting LE in searching a dumpster for the body of their baby.

That picture made me so sad to look at. But thinking about it, I'm fairly certain that the police didn't ask dad to look through the trash for his son's body. I believe they must have been looking for something else, or at least told him that they were looking for something else.

That's one conversation that could go horribly wrong, I can't see them risking it to ask.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 07:43 PM
I also think this is a possibility; not a stranger or a RSO, but someone who knew them. MOO

That would still require someone that knew him to happen along, at precisely the moment he slipped out the door.

Kat
02-13-2011, 07:48 PM
I have to sign off now but IMHO..

and it is JMHO--RSO's are not as dangerous as unregistered SO's. Meaning, we have absolutely no way of knowing who is a SO that might have had access to that house or to that area because they haven't never been caught before. KWIM?

I did look at all the RSO's within a 5 mile area with particular interest in the ages and gender of their victims. It is not a hard and fast rule, there are always exceptions but often (not all the time) SO's have a fantasy that involves a certain age frame and certain gender. Like I said not all the time. When I looked at those I think I only saw a female that could have possibly preferred such a young victim. I don't remember her stats though. She wasn't closeby.

We just have no way of knowing who came and went from that house.

I wish that media would interview some of the people that were in the home. More so than they have so far. I want to see more interviews with the Parents and also the other adults in that home. What was Joshua like? We don't even have a description by those that loved him.

All JMHO.

katydid23
02-13-2011, 07:50 PM
That would still require someone that knew him to happen along, at precisely the moment he slipped out the door.

And looking at the pictures of the neighborhood, there is no place a suspect could lurk. Nobody could hang around anywhere, even in their car, and not be noticed.

I think the only way someone could have snatched the baby once he was outside would be if someone happened to see him from their own home.

panthera
02-13-2011, 07:55 PM
That would still require someone that knew him to happen along, at precisely the moment he slipped out the door.

Wasn't his mother suspicious of someone who had been inside the house. someone who left and came back? I never figured out the details, such as what time this person left and returned and if it coincided with when Joshua was noticed to be missing. :waitasec:

katydid23
02-13-2011, 08:01 PM
Wasn't his mother suspicious of someone who had been inside the house. someone who left and came back? I never figured out the details, such as what time this person left and returned and if it coincided with when Joshua was noticed to be missing. :waitasec:

That is my number one theory right now. Mostly because it was mom's gut level reaction. She said he was suspicious, he came and left and he changed his story. And he is the only one who is not a close family member. I think he could have nabbed the baby, stashed him outside somewhere. like his car trunk, and then escaped with him while pretending to search in the chaotic first moments.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 08:09 PM
Wasn't his mother suspicious of someone who had been inside the house. someone who left and came back? I never figured out the details, such as what time this person left and returned and if it coincided with when Joshua was noticed to be missing. :waitasec:

Yeah, I would like to know more about that, too. I wonder if it was just someone who stopped by.

MsFacetious
02-13-2011, 08:53 PM
I agree. When I saw the pic of JD helping LE search the garbage can, I thought WTH? I was wondering why on Earth he'd even want to search, just in case, which made me think maybe he knew he wasn't there? I also wonder if LE purposely had him help search just to watch his demeanor/body language etc, because I have NEVER heard of a parent assisting LE in searching a dumpster for the body of their baby.

Going through the garbage can in the family's yard was not Friday or Saturday.

It was Sunday.

That would have been 36-48 hours after this child was reported missing.

This is the garbage can which sits in the yard at the missing child's home.... there is nothing other than incompetence to explain it if law enforcement waited 36+ hours to search that.

They should have checked that for the child or his body as soon as they arrived Friday night, or Saturday morning when it got light at the very latest.

They already knew there was not a body in there on Sunday. They were probably having Dad look into see if there was anything in there that shouldn't be. That wasn't his family's garbage. If an abductor did stay outside, maybe they threw away a Coke and the family drinks Pepsi. Something like that.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Police-continue-search-for-missing-tot-1003212.php#photo-6

MsFacetious
02-13-2011, 08:56 PM
I think it's certainly possible someone was trying to get back at the family for something. Someone held a grudge. Someone was getting revenge. Baby Josh may have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. JMO, of course.

Absolutely, if someone WAS outside waiting... but not for Joshua. Maybe for one of the adults in the house to come outside. Confront them about something, or do something worse. Then Joshua comes out and they think this is an even better idea than what they had in mind.

Destiny Norton was outside for a minute before being grabbed. Adam Walsh wasn't even at his home where anyone would have known he'd be there. As far fetched as it sounds it is entirely possible... especially if there WAS someone with a grudge against someone in the family. This could explain Mom's being convinced he was taken... in addition to wanting to believe he's alive. She may have reason to believe that someone WOULD take him.

katydid23
02-13-2011, 09:04 PM
Going through the garbage can in the family's yard was not Friday or Saturday.

It was Sunday.

That would have been 36-48 hours after this child was reported missing.

This is the garbage can which sits in the yard at the missing child's home.... there is nothing other than incompetence to explain it if law enforcement waited 36+ hours to search that.

They should have checked that for the child or his body as soon as they arrived Friday night, or Saturday morning when it got light at the very latest.

They already knew there was not a body in there on Sunday. They were probably having Dad look into see if there was anything in there that shouldn't be. That wasn't his family's garbage. If an abductor did stay outside, maybe they threw away a Coke and the family drinks Pepsi. Something like that.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Police-continue-search-for-missing-tot-1003212.php#photo-6

I agree. They were not looking for the baby in there on Sunday. I am sure the searchers looked in their garbage cans and the closest neighbors in the initial searches. At least one would hope so.

Columbo
02-13-2011, 09:12 PM
What are the possible scenarios?

1. He slipped through the door unnoticed.

a. wandered off and got lost in the scrub
b. wandered off and fell into water
c. wandered off and was abducted or 'saved' by some one
d. ran into road/struck by car/ hidden

2. He died accidentally in the home

3. He was hurt/abused by someone in the home

4. He was abducted from the home by one of the adults or by a stranger

What did I miss? Any other possible scenarios?

bolded by me.

Slipped out the door unnoticed, fell off the icy steps, was injured and died in the fall. (Accidental death outside the home.)

Dee10
02-13-2011, 09:18 PM
Sorry, I can't find the link...so consider this as rumor, but I remember a newsclip or reading that there were no suspicious cars in the area that evening.

One thing I have a problem with is mobile homes are not as sound resistant as house IMO. Now in this house there were a lot of adults with a sports game playing, but the other neighbors maybe not so much, although there was a rumor that several places were having parties. My point is; if little Joshua was outside in the cold-dark night, it would not be inconceivable he would be crying, especially if you consider the theory of an animal attacking and dragging him away. These units seem quite close together, so that has always bothered me in that regard ~ no reported noise, suspicious activity, in the press from neighbors.

panthera
02-13-2011, 09:21 PM
bolded by me.

Slipped out the door unnoticed, fell off the icy steps, was injured and died in the fall. (Accidental death outside the home.)

That's always a possibility, but why would anyone cover it up by reporting him missing? Now if someone who had been drinking accidentally hit him with their car, that could be another story entirely. MOO

Columbo
02-13-2011, 09:23 PM
Sorry, I can't find the link...so consider this as rumor, but I remember a newsclip or reading that there were no suspicious cars in the area that evening.

One thing I have a problem with is mobile homes are not as sound resistant as house IMO. Now in this house there were a lot of adults with a sports game playing, but the other neighbors maybe not so much, although there was a rumor that several places were having parties. My point is; if little Joshua was outside in the cold-dark night, it would not be inconceivable he would be crying, especially if you consider the theory of an animal attacking and dragging him away. These units seem quite close together, so that has always bothered me in that regard ~ no reported noise, suspicious activity, in the press from neighbors.


If he did manage to slip out the door and even negotiate the slippery, icy steps, he might have been crying because he couldn't get back up and wanted to get back inside the mobile home. Either they didn't hear him (unlikely) or ignored the crying, but someone outside, either the RSO or someone else, heard the crying and took him away.

Of course--the search dogs didn't hit outside the home, did they? So pretty much all the theories about him going out, getting down the steps to solid ground, etc, will not work. :banghead:

angela
02-13-2011, 09:25 PM
After seeing the video of the mother getting the call that he had been found, I just don't think she knows anything. If something happened in the house, it would have been difficult for the others to keep it from her. If she knows, she deserves an Oscar for that performance.

TGIRecovered
02-13-2011, 09:44 PM
I've thought over and over this since the story broke. I have two children (one teen, one in elementary school), so I am sufficiently paranoid, but I cannot imagine such a coincidence happening, although I suppose that it's not *impossible*?

When I think about the chances of happening upon a toddler wandering alone, I realize that if this has happened to me several times in my life, odds are that it probably happens to anyone with an intense interest in children.

My intense interest comes from my motherly insitnct in combination with an interest in what makes people do the things that they do. I'm observant...that is partly why I am here at WS.

A pedofile has an intense interest in children. He does not want to get caught, so he is very observant. He watches...everywhere he goes. He is obsessed.

I have returned wandering toddlers to unaware parents on a number of occassions. I lived in an apartment complex with a toddler who was a serial wanderer. Mom left him home alone with a ten year old who was also responsible for two additional younger siblings. yes, I reported it to CPS. I almost ran over a toddler crossing the street a block away from his daycare. They did not know he was gone, but said he runs off all of the time. Called CPS that time too. I have returned toddlers in Wallmart, at the Mall, and at sporting events.

I think I have convinced myself that pedofiles do, on occassion, happen along an unsupervised toddler if they are at least as observant as I am.

I would venture a guess that no parent whose child has been snatched by a pedofile would have thought that it would happen to their child, just at the time that the parent was distracted for a few moments, or on the next asile of the store,... but happen it does!

Curiouswife, you are not paranoid, if you watch your kids closely, you are smart!

katydid23
02-13-2011, 10:35 PM
TGI,
You make a really good point. I have also come across a few 'runaway' toddlers and young kids in past years. One time I found a little boy playing on our mini trampoline in our fenced in back yard. He was about 3 yrs old and was being 'babysat' by his grandfather, who was certain the kid was asleep.

Anyhow, If I had been living with a pedophile, this kid might have gone missing.

I can barely count how many times I have seen very young children and even babies left alone in cars. Usually parents are 'keeping an eye' on them, but not always.
I always wait for the adult and politely scream at them for being so stupid.

I have also come upon lost children in malls and one time saw a toddler walking on the road by himself. Another motorist stopped as well and we waited for the cops. But if I had told initially him it was my baby he would have let me take the baby I am sure.

So I agree that the chances that a pedophile would come across a lone child are slim, but it can and does happen. If it happens to you and me, it can happen to them. Especially if they lurk in areas that it can easily happen for them.

Tuffy
02-13-2011, 10:51 PM
If he did manage to slip out the door and even negotiate the slippery, icy steps, he might have been crying because he couldn't get back up and wanted to get back inside the mobile home. Either they didn't hear him (unlikely) or ignored the crying, but someone outside, either the RSO or someone else, heard the crying and took him away.

Of course--the search dogs didn't hit outside the home, did they? So pretty much all the theories about him going out, getting down the steps to solid ground, etc, will not work. :banghead:

I think from what little we know of the search, the dogs did hit outside, they just weren't able to get a scent trail to follow away from the house.

Dee10
02-14-2011, 12:09 AM
What are the possible scenarios?

1. He slipped through the door unnoticed.

a. wandered off and got lost in the scrub
b. wandered off and fell into water
c. wandered off and was abducted or 'saved' by some one
d. ran into road/struck by car/ hidden

2. He died accidentally in the home

3. He was hurt/abused by someone in the home

4. He was abducted from the home by one of the adults or by a stranger

What did I miss? Any other possible scenarios?

Thank you for your posting, none that I can think of; although it helped my troubled mind to somewhat organize the possibilities. IMO I have to totally rule out all possibilities on #1 given the time that has passed, etc. So for me #2,3 & 4 are my focus as possibilities, at this point IMHO (sadly).

ETA - I don't believe it was a stranger, but someone that was at the house that night.

Noway
02-14-2011, 12:25 AM
After seeing the video of the mother getting the call that he had been found, I just don't think she knows anything. If something happened in the house, it would have been difficult for the others to keep it from her. If she knows, she deserves an Oscar for that performance.

A moment of shock when I read that ... and looked to see if the thread name had been changed to Found Alive or Found Deceased ... and then I realized you must have meant the Facebook rumor.

I guess it depends on the source of the Facebook rumor. Did they ever find the person(s) responsible?

Because I think running to the police station when you've read on Facebook that your child has been found is very odd. I'd have picked up my phone and called the detective in charge. Not driven to the police station. Know withing 1 minute instead of 15 ... 20 ... whatever it took to drive there.

cluciano63
02-14-2011, 12:28 AM
I don't think there is any way to eliminate any of the possibilities, even going on 10 days later. Unless the baby is found or an arrest is made, I don't think we can know. It is very sad and frustrating.

Hopeful One
02-14-2011, 12:31 AM
A moment of shock when I read that ... and looked to see if the thread name had been changed to Found Alive or Found Deceased ... and then I realized you must have meant the Facebook rumor.

I guess it depends on the source of the Facebook rumor. Did they ever find the person(s) responsible?

Because I think running to the police station when you've read on Facebook that your child has been found is very odd. I'd have picked up my phone and called the detective in charge. Not driven to the police station. Know withing 1 minute instead of 15 ... 20 ... whatever it took to drive there.


IIRC she got a call saying he had been found. It was on the video. I don't believe she knew at the moment that the tip came from fb.

Tuffy
02-14-2011, 12:40 AM
IIRC she got a call saying he had been found. It was on the video. I don't believe she knew at the moment that the tip came from fb.

Yeah, I give her a break on the over-reaction on that one. I don't know, but I might react the same way if I thought my missing baby had been found, no matter where the information came from.

I'm also not sure I would have the presence of mind to call before getting in the car. I'd probably get going, then call to verify on the way there.

Noway
02-14-2011, 12:40 AM
Who called the mother and told her he had been found? TIA

Noway
02-14-2011, 12:44 AM
http://www.kens5.com/news/Family-of-missing-New-Braunfels-toddler-gets-false-sense-of-hope-115442834.html

This video (at ~1.20 mark) says the family saw a posting on Facebook and rushed into the police station just minutes before a scheduled news conference.

Can you direct me to the video you are referring to. TIA

Noway
02-14-2011, 12:47 AM
This was the rumor that he was found in trailer park 10 miles away.

Dee10
02-14-2011, 12:55 AM
IDK, but the rumor that the place he was (FB) found; isn't that same place the helicopters are searching or am I off base with that????

ETA - I wasn't following FB at that time...little bit now.

Dee10
02-14-2011, 01:04 AM
I believe there is a link on the video that Mom was on, that states the (FB) area in question. Also I think there is a MSP link that corresponds with that area; same area the helicopters were searching. Was it a 1/2 rumor??

Noway
02-14-2011, 01:05 AM
There is a media links thread for this case. That is what I am going through now.

TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels- Missing! Media Links No Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

my_tee_mouse
02-14-2011, 01:09 AM
http://www.kens5.com/news/Family-of-missing-New-Braunfels-toddler-gets-false-sense-of-hope-115442834.html

This video (at ~1.20 mark) says the family saw a posting on Facebook and rushed into the police station just minutes before a scheduled news conference.

Can you direct me to the video you are referring to. TIA
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/18-month-old-missing-in-new-braunfels

At about :46, it shows her getting the call.

Dee10
02-14-2011, 01:10 AM
There is a media links thread for this case. That is what I am going through now.

TX TX - Joshua Davis, 18 months, New Braunfels- Missing! Media Links No Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6122605#post6122605)

Thank you Noway, I am on the east coast & off to bed!

Noway
02-14-2011, 01:15 AM
In that video link I had posted, the reporter reads the description of what Josh was wearing and it includes "beige jeans" ...

Noway
02-14-2011, 01:18 AM
http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/18-month-old-missing-in-new-braunfels

At about :46, it shows her getting the call.

I think I see what you're saying. Someone called her and told her he'd been found safe (wonder who that was) and she look overjoyed. She didn't have a "how could he have been found safe when he's dead" kind of look. IMO

I wonder if this was a test by LE.

Noway
02-14-2011, 01:21 AM
Thank you Noway, I am on the east coast & off to bed!

Goodnight, Dee!

This makes for good reading if you ever suffer from insomnia.

TexGal
02-14-2011, 02:25 AM
This was the rumor that he was found in trailer park 10 miles away.

I don't believe there is a trailer park on Hunter Road. The article I can't find to reference said they had searched last week on County Ridge Road. This is not an area with trailers. I believe the rumor was that he had been found in the Hunter Road area.

Money Girl
02-14-2011, 02:32 AM
What is the mother's maiden name?

Is she 21 or 23? I have seen both ages in news reports.

HiHater
02-14-2011, 04:59 AM
I always lurk and never post, but I thought I'd chime in on this one...

1. They may call him "the baby" because the father's name is also Joshua, and if I heard Nancy Grace correctly, the 6 year old is named Joshua as well. It is less important what they call him, and more important the tense he is referred to in.

2. There is NO way a baby walks out of a trailer with that many adults present. And if he beats the odds and walks out isn't it dark and freezing---so he'd probably want back in. I don't think an 18 month old could navigate stairs, brave the cold, and see in relative darkness well enough to get very far.

3. The father was in the living room wasn't he? If so, he'd have a direct or partial view of the door, no?

4. I don't think the mother fell asleep, and even if she did there were so many other people in the house that she should not have panicked. If she simply fell asleep, she would probably say that as it would make her story more believable.

5. Something about this entire situation just does not sit right with me. The way the parents speak about that night, the grandpa/girlfriend, the other baby that Joshua was "interested" in, pulling the dad's beanie, the number of people present...all of it together just seems weird to me. I have a 5 year old and a 1 year old. If I don't see the 1 year old for even a couple of minutes---and she's quiet---I KNOW something is up.

I hope my post did not seem judgmental, I am trying hard to reserve judgment until there is a suspect or person of interest.

HiHater
02-14-2011, 05:13 AM
One thing I forgot, I wonder why baby Joshua had on so much clothing when he disappeared? 2 shirts and a onesie is a bit much for a baby who is at home watching a movie. I'd assume the heat would be on in that weather and a child would overheat. Why would he be bundled up if he were just at home watching a movie...and not in pj's or a footie...Just wondering.

katydid23
02-14-2011, 05:38 AM
One thing I forgot, I wonder why baby Joshua had on so much clothing when he disappeared? 2 shirts and a onesie is a bit much for a baby who is at home watching a movie. I'd assume the heat would be on in that weather and a child would overheat. Why would he be bundled up if he were just at home watching a movie...and not in pj's or a footie...Just wondering.

I was wondering about the clothing thing too. She said they were in bedroom watching Toy Story. I would assume she wanted him to lay down and get ready to go to sleep soon. So I also wondered why he wasn't in PJ's instead of jeans and flannel shirts.

And did you say that NG said that the older child is also named Joshua, after his Dad too? Really? Sorry, but that is just weird imo.

HiHater
02-14-2011, 05:48 AM
I was wondering about the clothing thing too. She said they were in bedroom watching Toy Story. I would assume she wanted him to lay down and get ready to go to sleep soon. So I also wondered why he wasn't in PJ's instead of jeans and flannel shirts.

And did you say that NG said that the older child is also named Joshua, after his Dad too? Really? Sorry, but that is just weird imo.

Exactly.& I'm not 100% sure that Nancy said that, but I think I heard her say the 6 year old is also named Joshua. That's not only weird, it would make me think someone has some control issues. JMO

TxLady2
02-14-2011, 08:17 AM
I know, but RSO's often have friends that are also RSO's.

And the only crime we know that he committed was with a teen girl. But plenty of sex offenders have varied tastes. And many are opportunistic offenders as well.

I agree. Key word = opportunistic. He wouldn't have had to be snatched right in front of their house. The baby could have managed to get a mile away before some predator saw him and grabbed the opportunity. They are like buzzards, they circle around, see their prey and snatch and run.
What are the odds that these teenage girls are grabbed right off the street in broad daylight without someone seeing it? Yet it does happen. Same with someone crawling through a window and grabbing one at knifepoint right from their own bed.
I can't discount any possibility because I've lived long enough to know that just when you think you've seen and heard it all.... you haven't.

TxLady2
02-14-2011, 08:37 AM
A moment of shock when I read that ... and looked to see if the thread name had been changed to Found Alive or Found Deceased ... and then I realized you must have meant the Facebook rumor.

I guess it depends on the source of the Facebook rumor. Did they ever find the person(s) responsible?

Because I think running to the police station when you've read on Facebook that your child has been found is very odd. I'd have picked up my phone and called the detective in charge. Not driven to the police station. Know withing 1 minute instead of 15 ... 20 ... whatever it took to drive there.

Maybe they did call them and the cops said they would go and check it out. They could be the ones who notified the police in the first place, and were told to meet them at the station before going to the location, so they could identify him.

CuriousHousewife
02-14-2011, 08:45 AM
I always lurk and never post, but I thought I'd chime in on this one...

1. They may call him "the baby" because the father's name is also Joshua, and if I heard Nancy Grace correctly, the 6 year old is named Joshua as well. It is less important what they call him, and more important the tense he is referred to in.

2. There is NO way a baby walks out of a trailer with that many adults present. And if he beats the odds and walks out isn't it dark and freezing---so he'd probably want back in. I don't think an 18 month old could navigate stairs, brave the cold, and see in relative darkness well enough to get very far.

3. The father was in the living room wasn't he? If so, he'd have a direct or partial view of the door, no?

4. I don't think the mother fell asleep, and even if she did there were so many other people in the house that she should not have panicked. If she simply fell asleep, she would probably say that as it would make her story more believable.

5. Something about this entire situation just does not sit right with me. The way the parents speak about that night, the grandpa/girlfriend, the other baby that Joshua was "interested" in, pulling the dad's beanie, the number of people present...all of it together just seems weird to me. I have a 5 year old and a 1 year old. If I don't see the 1 year old for even a couple of minutes---and she's quiet---I KNOW something is up.

I hope my post did not seem judgmental, I am trying hard to reserve judgment until there is a suspect or person of interest.

They might also call him the baby because I notice that in large families or families with a lot of extended family nearby, particularly if this is the first grandchild, they often refer to a baby as "the baby". I work with families and babies and after this was mentioned, I can think back to a LOT of times where I've heard this...mostly when there is a big family.

About the beanie/hat...I thought it was interesting that in the original appearance of mother on Nancy Grace, I can't remember if it was Nancy or mom, but one of them said that dad sort of yelled at the baby to stop playing with his hat or told him to stop or something like that. With an 18-month-old? Really?

TxLady2
02-14-2011, 08:47 AM
Exactly.& I'm not 100% sure that Nancy said that, but I think I heard her say the 6 year old is also named Joshua. That's not only weird, it would make me think someone has some control issues. JMO

Why would someone name their second child the same name as the first child? That doesn't make any sense. If NG said this, she could have been mistaken or misunderstood somehow. I thought this baby was a Jr. If the older child has the same name, HE would be the Jr., not the baby. Unless they all have different middle names... in which case, neither child would technically be a Jr. My son has the same first name as his father, but different middle names, so he is not Jr. although a few well-meaning friends have called him that because they look so much alike.
Hope this makes sense.... I'm only on my 2nd cup of coffee.

Trident
02-14-2011, 08:49 AM
They might also call him the baby because I notice that in large families or families with a lot of extended family nearby, particularly if this is the first grandchild, they often refer to a baby as "the baby". I work with families and babies and after this was mentioned, I can think back to a LOT of times where I've heard this...mostly when there is a big family.

About the beanie/hat...I thought it was interesting that in the original appearance of mother on Nancy Grace, I can't remember if it was Nancy or mom, but one of them said that dad sort of yelled at the baby to stop playing with his hat or told him to stop or something like that. With an 18-month-old? Really?

Why not? I don't find that strange.

CuriousHousewife
02-14-2011, 09:14 AM
Why not? I don't find that strange.

I don't really want to start a parenting debate, but 18 months is pretty young to yell at over messing with your hat. JUST my opinion. Doesn't sound like a normal level of tolerance. Again JMO

justthinkin
02-14-2011, 09:23 AM
One thing I forgot, I wonder why baby Joshua had on so much clothing when he disappeared? 2 shirts and a onesie is a bit much for a baby who is at home watching a movie. I'd assume the heat would be on in that weather and a child would overheat. Why would he be bundled up if he were just at home watching a movie...and not in pj's or a footie...Just wondering.

I found this really odd too. Either they were running the heat in the house at a lower temp to conserve energy or the heater wasn't working or else Joshua had come in from being outside in the cold.

Mobile homes are not well insulated, and harder to heat and cool. I would think most likely they would have the heat turned up higher to stay warm, but if that were the case, then this baby was overdressed, and would have likely overheated with all those clothes on.

I'm just not sure what to make of this. Some sources said he had a onesey on underneath the t-shirt, shirt, jeans, and socks, and other sources don't mention the onesey at all.

Also, in the photo, the gray t-shirt looks more like a sweat shirt to me by the stitched in V shaped piece of fabric on the front below the rounded neckline. Far more typical of a sweat shirt than a t-shirt, IMO.

This case has too many loose ends, and a lack of clear-cut information. I don't like it.

belimom
02-14-2011, 09:23 AM
I don't really want to start a parenting debate, but 18 months is pretty young to yell at over messing with your hat. JUST my opinion. Doesn't sound like a normal level of tolerance. Again JMO

No one has said that he yelled. I'm not saying that he didn't, but I haven't seen it stated yet. The closest I have found is the NG producer (see below) - the mom has never flat out stated anything about the father that I can find and that has bothered me. She answered a question from NG about the time but never has mentioned one word about the father and the hat incident.

I do think it's possible that he may have yelled - but no one has come out and said anything like that at this point.

bbm

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the father says that at about 8:00, he was sitting in a chair, the little boy was behind him, kind of playing with his hat. Trying to pull the hat off his dad`s head because he kind of told him to stop it, the little boy looked at him, smiled.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html


(The mom answering NG's question - the closest she has come to discussing the whole "beanie" incident, as far as I can find):

GRACE: Well, your husband -- the father says he saw the baby at 8:00, so what time did you realize he was missing?

BENITEZ: It was all right around that time. I mean everything happened so quick I wasn`t looking at the clock. But it was all around that time frame.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1102/07/ng.02.html

eloisemurphy
02-14-2011, 10:43 AM
I was wondering about the clothing thing too. She said they were in bedroom watching Toy Story. I would assume she wanted him to lay down and get ready to go to sleep soon. So I also wondered why he wasn't in PJ's instead of jeans and flannel shirts.

And did you say that NG said that the older child is also named Joshua, after his Dad too? Really? Sorry, but that is just weird imo.

I read somewhere, that SB (the Mother) is expecting her second child. To me that means that the Oldest boy is not her child, but the Father's from a previous relationship. That being said, still seems strange that one would name their Son after the Father if there is already a namesake, especially if that namesake is in your home frequently, or lives with you. Although that would explain why Baby Joshua was called "the Baby"

Inspector Gidget
02-14-2011, 10:45 AM
Happy Valentine's Day to all you beautiful people

I hope we get some good news on Joshua.He has been gone too long now

Tuffy
02-14-2011, 10:52 AM
First of all: http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/signs/smiley-vault-signs-051.gif HiHater

I see you're in Killeen, so your fairly close by! Glad you decided to join in on this one.

The clothing doesn't bother me so much, because they did have company over. If they didn't maybe they would put him in his pjs earlier, but maybe not if there was company there. It wasn't even 7:30 pm when they started watching Toy Story.

Tuffy
02-14-2011, 10:55 AM
Happy Valentine's Day to all you beautiful people

I hope we get some good news on Joshua.He has been gone too long now

Thanks, Inspector! I forgot it was V Day. Happy Valentine's everyone.

I hope today is the day we get good news on Joshua too.

SilkySifaka
02-14-2011, 10:59 AM
One thing I forgot, I wonder why baby Joshua had on so much clothing when he disappeared? 2 shirts and a onesie is a bit much for a baby who is at home watching a movie. I'd assume the heat would be on in that weather and a child would overheat. Why would he be bundled up if he were just at home watching a movie...and not in pj's or a footie...Just wondering.

i get the impression it was cold in the house for whatever reason. Dad was wearing his beanie

Tuffy
02-14-2011, 11:16 AM
They might also call him the baby because I notice that in large families or families with a lot of extended family nearby, particularly if this is the first grandchild, they often refer to a baby as "the baby". I work with families and babies and after this was mentioned, I can think back to a LOT of times where I've heard this...mostly when there is a big family.

About the beanie/hat...I thought it was interesting that in the original appearance of mother on Nancy Grace, I can't remember if it was Nancy or mom, but one of them said that dad sort of yelled at the baby to stop playing with his hat or told him to stop or something like that. With an 18-month-old? Really?

Agree on the big family thing. In my ex's family of 7 kids, his younger sister was called 'baby' or 'the baby.' The older kids babied her, too.

But the fact that dad and baby were both named Joshua, I see that it would be easier to call the baby something different. I come from a family with a bunch of boys named after dads. They were alway called, for example, Big Joe, and Little Joe. As we grew up, the boys were a bit miffed that the Little prefix stuck with them. :D

eloisemurphy
02-14-2011, 11:21 AM
What are the possible scenarios?

1. He slipped through the door unnoticed.

a. wandered off and got lost in the scrub
b. wandered off and fell into water
c. wandered off and was abducted or 'saved' by some one
d. ran into road/struck by car/ hidden

2. He died accidentally in the home

3. He was hurt/abused by someone in the home

4. He was abducted from the home by one of the adults or by a stranger

What did I miss? Any other possible scenarios?

taken by animal predator ( although not likely)

CuriousHousewife
02-14-2011, 11:26 AM
No one has said that he yelled. I'm not saying that he didn't, but I haven't seen it stated yet. The closest I have found is the NG producer (see below) - the mom has never flat out stated anything about the father that I can find and that has bothered me. She answered a question from NG about the time but never has mentioned one word about the father and the hat incident.

I do think it's possible that he may have yelled - but no one has come out and said anything like that at this point.

bbm

(The mom answering NG's question - the closest she has come to discussing the whole "beanie" incident, as far as I can find):

Thanks for posting all of this. I must have misread the conversation and maybe I was inserting my own emotions into it.

TripleA
02-14-2011, 12:55 PM
I don't find the clothing odd at all. When we have company over my kids aren't usually in their pjs.

I don't find 8pm late for an 18 month old to be up when there is company at the house.


What I find odd it the number of people in the house just hanging out in the bedrooms. When we have a gathering here everyone is in the livingroom, diningroom or kitchen. The only time anyone would go to the bedrooms is if they are going to bed.

What I also find odd is an unattended 18 month old. Maybe for a minute or two, but not long enough to disappear into the night. 18 month old children require constant supervision IMO.

Even now my husband and I vocalize when are children are switching caretakers if we are not in our home. Like at Border's Saturday, when my 8 year old went from me to him, and he was in the next isle over, I yelled over to him "You have Adrianna now, okay?" and he acknowledged me so that I knew he had the reigns. That is what bothers me.

This is a very sad situation. Joshua is just a baby, still in diapers, not able to speak in full sentences even and he just walks out the house unnoticed by anyone? Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that if this baby truly just walked out of the door and disappeared, then the shoulda/woulda/couldas will be quite haunting.

not_my_kids
02-14-2011, 01:02 PM
Maybe they did call them and the cops said they would go and check it out. They could be the ones who notified the police in the first place, and were told to meet them at the station before going to the location, so they could identify him.

I doubt it, since in the video you cn hear Sabrina yell, "They found him on Hunter Road" and then bolt for the car. I just wish I knew who was on the other end of that cell phone at the time.

HiHater
02-14-2011, 01:03 PM
I don't find the clothing odd at all. When we have company over my kids aren't usually in their pjs.

I don't find 8pm late for an 18 month old to be up when there is company at the house.


What I find odd it the number of people in the house just hanging out in the bedrooms. When we have a gathering here everyone is in the livingroom, diningroom or kitchen. The only time anyone would go to the bedrooms is if they are going to bed.

What I also find odd is an unattended 18 month old. Maybe for a minute or two, but not long enough to disappear into the night. 18 month old children require constant supervision IMO.

Even now my husband and I vocalize when are children are switching caretakers if we are not in our home. Like at Border's Saturday, when my 8 year old went from me to him, and he was in the next isle over, I yelled over to him "You have Adrianna now, okay?" and he acknowledged me so that I knew he had the reigns. That is what bothers me.

This is a very sad situation. Joshua is just a baby, still in diapers, not able to speak in full sentences even and he just walks out the house unnoticed by anyone? Hindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that if this baby truly just walked out of the door and disappeared, then the shoulda/woulda/couldas will be quite haunting.

The clothing thing stands out to me, and now that someone mentions it, so does the father having on a beanie. It could all be nothing, but sometimes the little things are the biggest clues---and at the end those little things make you go ohhhhhhhh. If you get what I mean.

I agree though, kids that young should not even have the opportunity to be alone long enough to wander out of a house. I go to my mom's house every weekend, and so do my brothers and sisters/their kids. So that's about 6 adults, a 5 year old, a 1 year old, and 2 babies younger than 1. If I don't put my eyes on my 1 year old, I will say where's Rhayne? and somebody will say where she's at or she will come running. That's in a 3 bedroom home, which would be larger than a trailer, I'm assuming. I would kick myself in the butt if something happened because I didn't check for her.

HiHater
02-14-2011, 01:07 PM
I don't really want to start a parenting debate, but 18 months is pretty young to yell at over messing with your hat. JUST my opinion. Doesn't sound like a normal level of tolerance. Again JMO

I think it's a very normal level of tolerance, especially if the 18 month old kept on doing it. Maybe not the smartest parenting-yelling at all, but also not an indicator of an anger management problem IMO

HiHater
02-14-2011, 01:08 PM
taken by animal predator ( although not likely)

There would surely be some type of forensic evidence, including the scent of the baby to and from where the animal snatched him.

CuriousHousewife
02-14-2011, 01:09 PM
I think it's a very normal level of tolerance, especially if the 18 month old kept on doing it. Maybe not the smartest parenting-yelling at all, but also not an indicator of an anger management problem IMO

You're right. I've seen people get irritated at their kids for much less.

HiHater
02-14-2011, 01:10 PM
Why would someone name their second child the same name as the first child? That doesn't make any sense. If NG said this, she could have been mistaken or misunderstood somehow. I thought this baby was a Jr. If the older child has the same name, HE would be the Jr., not the baby. Unless they all have different middle names... in which case, neither child would technically be a Jr. My son has the same first name as his father, but different middle names, so he is not Jr. although a few well-meaning friends have called him that because they look so much alike.
Hope this makes sense.... I'm only on my 2nd cup of coffee.

I am not sure that the 6 year old and Baby Joshua have the same mothers. So in that case, I think they could both have named their children Jr. Again, I may have misheard, but I give that as a possible reason they call Joshua "the baby" instead of by name.