PDA

View Full Version : MI MI - Max & Patricia Murninghan, murdered in Lansing, 1970


Richard
09-18-2004, 02:41 PM
Has anyone ever heard of this case?

In the summer of 1970, the 16 year old daughter of former Lansing Mayor, Maxwell E. "Max" MURNINGHAN (18 Aug 1924 - 13 Jul 2000) and Patricia A MURNINGHAN (30 Sep 1924 - 26 Mar 1997) was working in a Lansing jewlry store. A robber entered the store and demanded money. He struck the elderly woman who was the owner or manager of the store on the head with his pistol and it discharged. Thinking that he had killed the woman, he abducted Miss Murninghan (who was the only other person reportedly in the store) and departed.

The store manager was only injured and knocked unconcious and she gave police a description of what had happened and of the suspect. He was described as a light skinned negro in his 20's.

A search was on for several days and was very much in the news. About a week later, Miss Murninghan's body was found in a pond some miles north of Lansing. She had been shot in the head with a small caliber pistol.

There was much media coverage of this case in Lansing from the day of the robery and kidnapping, up through the discovery of her body and subsequent funeral. The music played at the funeral was her favorite song by Simon and Garfunkel, "Bridge Over Troubled Water" which had been a hit song that spring.

To my knowledge, no one was ever arrested or convicted of that crime.

Richard
12-23-2005, 11:24 AM
Has anyone ever heard of this case? ... To my knowledge, no one was ever arrested or convicted of that crime.
Above is the first posting that I made on this forum. It got no replies. I have continued to seek more information, but with no luck. My guess is that the State Journal newspaper in Lansing, Michigan might have some articles on it in microfilm files, but that it is too old to be in any kind of On-Line archive.

I learned that the sister of this girl is living in an East Coast state. She published a paper containing memoirs of her Dad, but does not mention her sister or her sister's murder in it.

Does anyone have any ideas about learning more on the case?

SadieMae
12-23-2005, 11:50 AM
Richard I found this 2002 article. Her body was exhumed August that year to get DNA samples. They found hairs that were not hers, but nothing of the DNA results. I personally doubt the hairs came from from her murderer, but maybe more likely from those who prepared her body for burial.

http://www.lsj.com/news/local/p_020627_dna_1a-11a.html

Snipped:
Detectives found new hope for solving the 1970 homicide of Laurie Murninghan, former Lansing Mayor Max Murninghan's daughter, after removing two strands of hair from her exhumed body that they believed were not hers in August. But police had to wait months to find out that the hairs were indeed not hers. Now they're being tested further at a federal lab.

ETA: I remember that case, as I grew up not far from Lansing, and was 16 at the time also. I had cousins at MSU that I would visit.

LButler
12-23-2005, 11:56 AM
Richard, I did a search for her on newspaperarchive.com and the only thing was the reporting of her kidnapping and then finding her body. There was no updates on arrests, suspects...

The only thing of use in the reports I looked at were:

There was a sketch of the robber in one story. Negro 20's with a goatee.
It was reported that she was forced a gun point into a blue car.
Her body was found after a 12-day search 15 miles south of Lansing, near a state game preserve, 20-feet from a road. Found by 2 boys.

Richard
12-23-2005, 12:07 PM
I should have mentioned that the Lansing State Journal on-line does mention Laurie Murninghan in their time-line:

1970s timeline1970

• July 9: Lansing Mayor Max Murninghan's 16-year-old daughter, Laurie Murninghan, is kidnapped and murdered. The case is never solved.

Also, the following information was submitted to the Memorial Wall for Murder sometime between 18 Oct 2003 and 21 Dec 2005:

Laurie D. Murninghan
Lansing, Michigan
February 18, 1954 - July 9, 1970
Kidnapped, raped and strangled
No charges have been filed

Source: Memorial Wall For Murder Victims

Link:
http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/wall/wall2.html

Richard
12-23-2005, 09:57 PM
I should have mentioned that the Lansing State Journal on-line does mention Laurie Murninghan in their time-line:

1970s timeline1970

• July 9: Lansing Mayor Max Murninghan's 16-year-old daughter, Laurie Murninghan, is kidnapped and murdered. The case is never solved.

Also, the following information was submitted to the Memorial Wall for Murder sometime between 18 Oct 2003 and 21 Dec 2005:

Laurie D. Murninghan
Lansing, Michigan
February 18, 1954 - July 9, 1970
Kidnapped, raped and strangled
No charges have been filed

Source: Memorial Wall For Murder Victims

Link:
http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/wall/wall2.htmlThe "time line" was published in an article which ran in the State Journal on 28 April 2005. This was the only reference to Laurie's murder. The time line was bizarre in that it only had one or two things mentioned for each year of the 1970's, including some local news, and some national news like Watergate, and Jimmy Carter being elected President. The first event listed is Laurie's abduction and murder. It would be different if the newspaper had run some sort of an article or update on the case, but this was all it ran after some 35 years.

The Memorial Wall entry is interesting too, but this was the first time any mention was made of a rape and strangulation. It was probably an error on the part of the website, or on the part of whomever submitted it. Unless police have withheld that information for the past 35 years.

Richard
12-24-2005, 09:01 AM
Richard, I did a search for her on newspaperarchive.com and the only thing was the reporting of her kidnapping and then finding her body. There was no updates on arrests, suspects...

The only thing of use in the reports I looked at were:

There was a sketch of the robber in one story. Negro 20's with a goatee.
It was reported that she was forced a gun point into a blue car.
Her body was found after a 12-day search 15 miles south of Lansing, near a state game preserve, 20-feet from a road. Found by 2 boys.
I remember seeing that sketch back in July of 1970. Do you have a link to it?

Yaya
12-24-2005, 10:51 AM
This is all I could find on this suspect... maybe someone else could find more.

September 11, 2001
Detectives collected hair samples from a man they say is a suspect in the 31-year-old death of Lansing’s Laurie Murninghan.

DNA tests using the collected hair samples from the 54-year-old suspect will likely connect him to the case or clear him of any wrongdoing, said Lt. Ray Hall of the Lansing Police Department. Hall said it could take weeks or months for results to come back from the Michigan State Police Forensic Science Division laboratory performing the tests.

"This is an exciting time to work in law enforcement," Hall said. "We’re able to open up cases and determine whether there is any potential of investigation. (DNA) serves purposes to eliminate suspects and identify suspects.
"It can bring closure for the community and the family."
http://www.statenews.com/pbriefs.phtml?date=1000180800

Richard
12-26-2005, 08:51 AM
This is all I could find on this suspect... maybe someone else could find more.

September 11, 2001
Detectives collected hair samples from a man they say is a suspect in the 31-year-old death of Lansing’s Laurie Murninghan.

DNA tests using the collected hair samples from the 54-year-old suspect will likely connect him to the case or clear him of any wrongdoing, said Lt. Ray Hall of the Lansing Police Department. Hall said it could take weeks or months for results to come back from the Michigan State Police Forensic Science Division laboratory performing the tests.

"This is an exciting time to work in law enforcement," Hall said. "We’re able to open up cases and determine whether there is any potential of investigation. (DNA) serves purposes to eliminate suspects and identify suspects.
"It can bring closure for the community and the family."
http://www.statenews.com/pbriefs.phtml?date=1000180800
As is so often the case with newspapers, here is a very intriguing story which tends to create more questions than answers. Of course, there was probably no "follow-up" story to say what the result of that DNA test was.

In this particular instance, however, look at the date of the story: 11 September 2001. I doubt if anyone even read the story before the tragic events of that day swept all other news away.

By 2001, some 31 years after Laurie Murninghan's murder, most readers of the State Journal had probably never heard of her. The article does not give any specifics of the crime and it does not identify the suspect or why he was connected with the case.

I cannot recall a single instance of reporting on this case which did not include the catch phrase, "daughter of former Lansing mayor, Max Murninghan". Like she didn't have a mother or other family. And here in this article, 31 years later, they are still using that phrase to the exclusion of all other facts in the case.

This is a case, which after 35 years of no solution, should have all facts and evidence published. It is quite likely that the person responsible for Laurie's murder continued with his life of crime and violence. He would be in his mid 50's now, and possibly could still be alive - either in a prison or at large.

What was the actual description given at the time?
What was the specific weapon used to kill Laurie?
Were any fingerprints found?
What kind of car was used?
Was it only one person, or more who committed the crime?
What was the result of the DNA testing?
What other crimes of robbery, assult, or murder had been committed at around that time in the area?
Who were the suspects?
What was investigated as possible connections?

Richard
01-24-2006, 02:46 PM
This is all I could find on this suspect... maybe someone else could find more.

September 11, 2001
Detectives collected hair samples from a man they say is a suspect in the 31-year-old death of Lansing’s Laurie Murninghan. ... http://www.statenews.com/pbriefs.phtml?date=1000180800

I have looked and have not found any follow-up story in the past five years to indicate what the DNA testing results were. The State News is the Michigan State University newspaper. Strange that they alone would have had the information reported on, and not other newspapers.

I sent a message to the Editor in Chief of the State News, asking for an update or more information .

Yaya
01-26-2006, 12:38 AM
All Information obtained from News Paper Archives:

What was the actual description given at the time? Police are looking for a light skin slim Negro male, about 25 years old, 6 feet 170 lbs. with a moustache and goatee, dressed in a yellow knit shirt and dark slacks in connection with the slaying.

What was the specific weapon used to kill Laurie? Several weeks later, the county coroner attributed death to strangulation. (The gunman, who robbed the gift shop of $64 and struck its proprietor, Mrs. Christine Gallagher, over the head with his revolver before kidnapping Miss Murninghan.)

What kind of car was used? He reportedly left the scene with his victim in blue and white car.

Was it only one person, or more who committed the crime? Only one person was seen.

Who were the suspects? No suspects have been named. A man in Chicago was arrested after calling Laurie’s family asking for money, but later found to be a con man. Not connected to the abduction and murder.

Richard: The Coroner said, There was no indication of whether the girl had been sexually assaulted. The body was badly decomposed.

Based on this statement by Police I'm not sure if the description of the suspect is reliable. Kitty-corner from the shop at a small shopping plaza, several shoppers were conducting their daily business at a grocery store, delicatessen, bank, drug store and Laundromat. Only a few feet from the Gallagher shop, traffic flowed down Logan Street, a major north-south thoroughfare that intersects Saginaw Street. In spite of the time of day and the number of people in the immediate vicinity, the police discovered only one eye- witness to the crime. Mrs. Gallagher, a kindly, gray-haired woman, with eyesight so poor that she peers out of extra-thick lenses which make her eyes appear twice their size. She is the owner of the gift shop.
Stymied, police distributed throughout the country a picture of the missing girl taken only hours before she left for work that morning and a composite drawing of the gunman based on Mrs. Gallagher's description.

Yaya
01-26-2006, 12:41 AM
I will work on these questions tomorrow.

Were any fingerprints found?
What was investigated as possible connections?
What other crimes of robbery, assualt, or murder had been committed at around that time in the area?

Richard
01-26-2006, 01:18 AM
The Editor in Chief of the MSU State News replied to my inquiry to state that he did not know anything further about the case than what was in the 11 Sept 2001 article. He suggested that I contact police.

Sent an inquiry to Michigan State Police forensics lab.

Richard
02-16-2006, 09:33 AM
In January I sent an inquiry to the Michigan State Police inquiring about results from DNA testing mentioned in the 2001 article quoted above.

Here is the reply to my inquiry of the Michigan State Police regarding this case:

Quote >> Your email has found it's way to my office via the MSP Webmaster. I'm sorry to report that we do not have any information on the Laurie Muringhan homicide that we can release at this time.

I would suggest that you contact the Lansing Police Department for information as this case file belongs to them.

Lansing Police Department 517-483-4600

I aoplogize that we are unable to provide any other information or further assistance at this time. << unquote.

Patrick H. Murningha
07-11-2006, 01:03 PM
I am the brother of Laurie and have just discovered these postings. I only wish that I had seen them at the time, I could have answered your many questions about her case. It has been a frustrating, and lonely crusade of mine to expose the injustice done in resolving Laurie's murder.
You have all posted valid, and logical questions that, for the most part, have gone unanswered by authorities, (or have been deflected to another agency).
Laurie's case is the proverbial hot potato that authorites only wish goes away.

1) The identity of Laurie's killer was known to police within twenty-four hours of her abduction on July 9, 1970. He was a drug informant that authorities had released from prison in January of 1970. Within a month of his release, this informant had taken two 14 year old girls from Lansing to a Flint, Michigan hotel room, where he and a friend of his raped them. It appears that while in Flint, Laurie's murderer had temporarily left the room to, presumably, make a drug deal. The father of one of these girls filed a complaint with the Lansing Police and the suspect was actually picked up and detained, but released soon after the case was turned over to the state police. He wasn't even returned to prison for a parole violation.
Despite the news reports at the time, within days after Laurie's abduction, the suspect was arrested and held for aproximately ten months in the Ingham County Jail on these rape charges from the Flint fiasco. During his incarceration, the suspect admitted to another inmate that he had killed Laurie. That fact was forever buried until the September 11th article that revealed it. This was only after the search warrant for the suspects DNA was unsealed a month after her exhumation.
At that time, police stated that the DNA samples had already been sent to the FBI lab for testing. Approximately six weeks later, the Lansing State Journal printed a follow up query that the police were still waiting on the results. Then, in November after another follow up, the police stated that because of 9/11, they actually hadn't yet submitted the samples to the FBI, but instead, intended to send them to a Department of Defense Lab.
Much later, I finally was able to get an answer from the Ingham County Assitant Prosecuter in charge of Laurie's case that the test results were inconclusive, (and that the sample had been used up in the testing).

2) Despite previous reports that Ms. Gallagher was the only eyewitness, there were at least four others that witnessed the actual abduction when the suspect left the gift shop with Laurie and took her to his car that was parked up the block in a neighboring business lot.

I could go on and on about the many strange facts surrounding my dear sister's death, questions that go unanswered and only reveal more questions. I have the arrest record for the suspect, as incomplete as it is, that reveals an exstensive criminal history that only results in dropped charges and little, if no, jail time. This record is not only from Michigan but extends into the Toledo area as well. Even in Ohio, his numerous arrest went unpunished. The few Ohio crimes he was convicted of were disposed of with a "suspended sentence." Admittedly, many of these crimes were minor, but there were some attempted murder and armed robbery charges that still just seem to get lost in the system.
Authorities finally admitted to me, back in 1990, that they always knew who killed Laurie, they just never had the proof to convict him. If this were true, wouldn't they do everything possible to nail his ass on any subsequent crimes he's committed? They also told me back then that they believed the suspect had been killed back in 1986, so there was nothing more to be done about it. The suspects record that I would later obtain revealed several Lansing arrests in the early 1990's, and over 50 (yes, 50!) in Toledo throughout the rest of that decade. Apparantly, he recieves the protection from all levels of government.
Despite the FBI having been actively involved with Laurie's case back in 1970, they claimed in 2000 to not even having a case file on her murder. Another source would later reveal to me that there was no record of any DNA testing conducted on Laurie's case by any federal lab; FBI, Department of Defense, none of them.
While I continue to struggle with my own alcoholic demons, I believe the only way justice will ever be served is by national attention being focused on Laurie's case. The local, (and beyond) authorities have succeeded in spinning off any serious inquires without being caught in their own web of lies. The local media has little investigative ability to conduct a more thorough inquiry. Its not just the "blue wall of silence" at play, but a collaboration of our entire Law and Order system. And, frankly, it scares the hell out of me.

I look forward to any and all responses.

Jade
07-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Patrick,

May God bless you and give you strength. I am so sorry for the loss of your sister.

Jade

bykerladi
07-11-2006, 07:29 PM
Patrick, thank you for coming to Websleuths and telling us about LE's bungling of the investigation. Do you know if the suspect is still alive? Perhaps a letter writing campaign to your local senator will jump start LE? Anything we here at Websleuths can do we'll help you with.

Patrick H. Murningha
07-11-2006, 08:57 PM
Bykerladi, Last I knew, 2003, suspect was still living in Lansing, mostly on and off at the local shelter near downtown. For quite awhile I've felt my only hope was to generate enough interest, and questions, to force the convening of a federal grand jury investigation, one beyond reproach. But since learning of suspects criminal record in Ohio, not to mention missing FBI files and the whole charade around her exhumation, I've come to believe that this goes way beyond the local level. I think it would take a whole lot of signatures and then some.

Its not so much my belief that the local police "bungled" the investigation, however, I firmly believe that they have since, through orders from above, actively participated in obstructing justice so the terrible decisions made in the past do not come to light. And since nobody, least of all the media, has ever questioned or caught on to the many contradictions released through the years, its been an easy sell. All public information has been issued by LPD. Even when they supposedly reopened the case in 2001, the lead investigator was the son of one of the original detectives to work the case back in 1970. Absolutely no objectivity, or accountability.

So, how would one go about initiating a letter campaign?
Your thoughts, as well as others would be greatly appreciated.

Pat

Richard
07-17-2006, 06:21 PM
Bykerladi, Last I knew, 2003, suspect was still living in Lansing, mostly on and off at the local shelter near downtown. For quite awhile I've felt my only hope was to generate enough interest, and questions, to force the convening of a federal grand jury investigation, one beyond reproach. But since learning of suspects criminal record in Ohio, not to mention missing FBI files and the whole charade around her exhumation, I've come to believe that this goes way beyond....Pat
I would be very interested to hear more information on Laurie's case. There was much contradictory information at the time and even more now.

If the facts could be laid out, as well as a good detailed story about the suspect, perhaps some action might follow. Most police forces do not like to admit to mistakes, but after 36 years with no solution...? This case needs to be looked into and all leads followed.

Patrick H. Murningha
07-17-2006, 08:42 PM
Richard,

Yes, there are many contradictions when viewed altogether.
When I finally started asking questions back in 1990, it was, primarily, after learning about DNA. I wondered if Laurie's dress, which I knew had been found near her body, could be tested for possible DNA. A Captain with the Lansing Police told me then that they didn't have her dress. Because her body was found outside of Lansing, either the Ingham County Sherriff, or the State Police would have it. Niether agency claimed to have it, both pointing back to LPD.

In 1995, (the captain I spoke with in 1990 had since retired), a LPD detective again claimed that they did not have the dress. I had gone to him because I had just learned from the manager of our cemetery, that a man from Monroe, Michigan had contacted her the previous year and requested a picture of Laurie's grave. This man claimed to be an old classmate of Lauries. The lady called police, whom she thought would be interested in this request, and to her surprise, was told to go ahead and send the photo. When I heard this I was pretty upset because I had recently discovered that Laurie's killer had moved to the same area about 6 months prior to the photo request. Seemed too coincidental to me, yet the LPD refused to investigate. Also, there was no record of this man having ever been in any Lansing school.

Fast forward to 2001, when they suddenly decide to re-open the case, (a week after I had threatened to go to the media), and the first thing they want to do is exhume her body, which, unfortunatley, both my brother and sister supported. I didn't want the authorities going anywhere near Laurie's gravesite until they explained where her dress was, and who this man in Monroe was. Finally, they stated that the dress had been destroyed just a few years back when their evidence room flooded. But, miraculously, they still had other items taken from the crime scene, such as her underwear and pantyhose, cigarette butts that they could submit for testing. As for the man in Monroe, they finally interviewed him, (8 years after his request and received the photo) and he claimed that because his mother had recently passed away back in 1993 he was reminded of Laurie's murder from 1970, and just wanted a photo of her grave.

These are but a few examples of inaction taken by those who closely guard the secrets of Laurie's murder and is why I firmly believe that her case will never be solved while it remains under the control of local officials.

There were several witnesses to the actual abduction, but these witnesses were never given the opportunity to later identify her killer because police claimed that they had no suspects in the case, despite having him incarcerated for the previous rapes that he had committed mentioned in my previous posts. Not to mention, his confession to another inmate during that incarceration.

So much to say, I don't know where to start. Anyone I've ever previously succeeded in looking into this case would quickly lose interest, just clam up. I'm just waiting for someone, or some group, to finally say; this is not right, this should not continue to happen in this day and age, and country.

HeartofTexas
07-17-2006, 10:22 PM
Patrick, I'm so sorry for the loss of your sister and the horrible aftermath perpetrated by apparently incompetent LE.

Since your father was himself a politician, and lived until 2000, did he have any pull with any LE to have anything done on Laurie's behalf? Did your parents try in vain all those years to get justice on Laurie's behalf?

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss and wish you the best on finding some kind of justice and/or resolution.

Patrick H. Murningha
07-18-2006, 11:02 AM
Heart,
Thanks. Unfortunately, both of my parents internalized their grief. It pretty much destroyed them. Not much was known about grief counseling back in 1970.

In 1990, after learning of my meeting with the police captain, my father confided to me that he was originally told about the suspect, but because of a lack of evidence, he could never be convicted. He was also told, as I was in 1973, that the suspect was already incarcerated for another crime, and would be for a long time. My father also believed that the suspect was killed while in prison in 1978. I never told him of any of my later discoveries throughout the 1990's. He sufferred from Alzheimers until his death in 2000.

The murder was such a shock to the whole community, I think most people remained passive, not wanting to think such a thing could happen in their neighborhood. For this, and many other reasons, is why authorities have succeeded in eluding accountability.

HeartofTexas
07-18-2006, 11:16 AM
Patrick, I'm so sorry to hear that. It's truly a travesty of justice. How such a scumbag could elude authorities and continue perpetrating crimes over and over for years is a very sad commentary on our justice system.

If you ever have time, you might want to drop by the Anna Waters forum here on WS. Her story is different than your sister's, but it might comfort you to see how another family has handled their loss. Their daughter, Anna, was abducted from their front yard in Half Moon Bay, CA, back in 1973, at the age of 5, and has never been seen again. Anna's mom, her brothers, her ex-stepfather and her uncle all post on the forum. It's an intriguing story with many twists and turns but, sadly, still no resolution. Anna hasn't been seen in over 33 years.

At any rate, welcome to WS, and I pray that you find some peace within yourself over the tragic loss of your sister.

Richard
07-20-2006, 07:42 AM
Here is a recent mention of Laurie's murder which was published in the Lansing State Journal (Lansing, Michigan). It followed other stories which reported the discovery of the body of a 7 year-old boy who had been missing since July 2005 (35 years after Laurie's abduction and murder.

It is doubtful that the two cases are connected, except in the coincidental location of bodies and the coincidental dates.

The writer might have more information regarding the case. He obviously knows the exact location where Laurie's body was found.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Body also found at game area in 1970
By Hugh Leach
Lansing State Journal
Published January 29, 2006

DANSVILLE - Friday was not the first time hopes were tragically dashed in the 5,000-acre Dansville State Game Area.In July 1970, the body of 16-year-old Laurie Murninghan was found on the edge of the game area at Barnes and Meridian roads.She had been kidnapped during a robbery at the Lansing gift and antique shop

The spot where she was found is just over two miles from where Ricky Holland, the 7-year-old Williamston boy missing since July, was found Friday.

Laurie, daughter of former Lansing Mayor Max Murninghan, had been missing for 11 days and was the object of one of the most extensive police manhunts ever held in mid-Michigan.

Three boys searching for returnable pop bottles along the road found her body in a swampy pond in a heavily wooded section of the game area. She had been strangled.

Her killer was never found.

Contact Hugh Leach at 377-1119 or hleach@lsj.com.


Source:
Lansing State Journal

Link:
http://lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060129/NEWS01/601290648&SearchID=73234033461917

Richard
07-20-2006, 07:52 AM
I mentined this in a previous post, but the below information is contained on a website titled Memorial Wall For Murder Victims. I do not know who submitted the information to that website, but the particulars of her death mentioned were never reported in the news media, or released by police.
----------------------------------------------

Laurie D. Murninghan

Lansing, Michigan
February 18, 1954 - July 9, 1970
Kidnapped, raped and strangled
No charges have been filed

Source:
Memorial Wall For Murder Victims

Link:
http://www.angelfire.com/wa3/wall/wall2.html

Richard
07-20-2006, 08:34 AM
This article has been posted and mentioned previously, but I thought that I would post it again. Patrick refers to the exhumation of Laurie's body and the fact that DNA tests were conducted. As mentioned, the police definitely had a suspect at the time. The odd thing is that there has been no follow up by any newspaper on this story, and apparently no interest by the editor of the State News (see a previous post). Michigan State Police conducted the DNA tests, yet they refer all inquiries to the Lansing Police Department.

---------------------------------
From the State News:
(newspaper of Michigan State University in East Lansing, Michigan)
11 September 2001
Detectives collected hair samples from a man they say is a suspect in the 31-year-old death of Lansing’s Laurie Murninghan.

Murninghan, the daughter of former Lansing Mayor Max Murninghan, was abducted July 7, 1970, from her job at Gallagher’s Gifts and Antiques Shop in Lansing.

Police discovered hair that didn’t belong to her after her body was exhumed Aug. 8.

DNA tests using the collected hair samples from the 54-year-old suspect will likely connect him to the case or clear him of any wrongdoing, said Lt. Ray Hall of the Lansing Police Department.

Hall said it could take weeks or months for results to come back from the Michigan State Police Forensic Science Division laboratory performing the tests.
“This is an exciting time to work in law enforcement,” Hall said. “We’re able to open up cases and determine whether there is any potential of investigation. (DNA) serves purposes to eliminate suspects and identify suspects.

“It can bring closure for the community and the family.”

JAMIE GUMBRECHT

Source:
The State News - www.statenews.com (http://www.statenews.com)

Link:
http://www.statenews.com/pbriefs.phtml?date=1000180800

Patrick H. Murningha
07-20-2006, 11:35 AM
Richard,

Thanks for your continued interest. I'll just respond to your recent posts.

I was living back in Lansing until recently. I followed the Ricky Holland case with great sorrow. When they finally discovered his body, it was like deja-vu, except, its never left my mind. Every year I try to place flowers at the sight where Laurie was found, as well as at the gift shop she was abducted from. Laurie's killer was familiar with this area because he used to ride horses from a nearby stable with his older sisters when he was a kid.

I posted the message on the Memorial Wall during a particularly angry period, after communicating with the editor of the Lansing State Journal. I tried to interest him in the many discrepancies of previous reports that they had published. I also tried to incourage him to investigate a few things that I won't mention here, mainly a couple of interviews, but his response was that he doesn't have the budget to do so. Whoa. So much for local media.

As for the State Police Crime Lab being used, thats another strange story. Initially, the local authorities in charge of the exhumation stated that they weren't going to use the State Lab, but rather the FBI's which had more advanced testing methods, (despite the fact that the State Lab was brand new and one of the most technologically advanced at the time). I'm not sure when, or if, the State Lab got into the mix. I remember the day they exhumed her body they immediately declared that they had found a couple of hairs that they knew weren't from Laurie. Rather shocking when you consider that her body was badly decomposed after spending 10 days submerged, face down in a swamp, over 31 years ago. The testing was, apparently, finally conducted by the Dept. of Defense(?), and shown to be inconclusive. The hairs no longer exist after having been used up during the testing process(?).

Richard
07-22-2006, 04:04 PM
..... I remember the day they exhumed her body they immediately declared that they had found a couple of hairs that they knew weren't from Laurie. Rather shocking when you consider that her body was badly decomposed after spending 10 days submerged, face down in a swamp, over 31 years ago. The testing was, apparently, finally conducted by the Dept. of Defense(?), and shown to be inconclusive. The hairs no longer exist after having been used up during the testing process(?).
Patrick,

Were you ever able to obtain a copy of the Coroner/Autopsey report? That is something which you should have. Also, what physical evidence was obtained by law enforcement regarding the suspect?

I recall that there was a description and sketch of the guy, and also that the news stated that Laurie was killed with a small caliber bullet to the head. Do you know if that is true, and if so, was a bullet recovered? Were there any fingerprints at the scene? Any footprints, cigarette butts, etc??

If this guy is "on the streets" today, is he listed in any of the sexual preditor data bases?

Patrick H. Murningha
07-23-2006, 01:58 PM
Richard,

Laurie was strangled, not shot. While in the gift shop, where Laurie worked for an old friend of our grandmother, the suspect hit the proprieter, Ms. Gallagher, over the head with his gun, which then discharged a bullet harmlessly into the ceiling. The belief was that he may have thought he had killed Ms. Gallagher, so he took Laurie. Suspect had actually purchased a small rug from the store when Laurie had filled out his receipt and given him his change. Then he pulled out his gun and struck Ms. Gallagher on the head, who was standing right next to Laurie because, as she later explained, was suspicious of his character. The composite given by Ms. Gallagher to the sketch artist produced an acurate discription of the suspect. She also picked him out of the mug book as well as a line-up, but the authorites would later claim she was uncertain of her choices.

Just prior to entering the gift shop the suspect was in the pharmacy right next door, where he also drew the suspicion of the pharmacist. Because the suspect had respritory problems, he had picked up a box containing an inhaler of some kind. The fingerprints that were later taken from that box matched those of the suspects.

I read the original autopsy report when I first began my inquiry back in 1990. I also have copies of several other reports, including the DNA tests, the lie detector tests supposedly taken by the man in Monroe, Michigan who requested the photo of Laurie's grave back in 1993, (shortly after the suspect had moved to that area), which, surpisingly, only consisted of four short questions in which Laurie was referred to as "Laura". I also have a copy of the interview with another inmate that the suspect had confessed to raping and killing Laurie, as well as a copy of a lengthy interrogation of suspect by two detectives just days after Laurie's murder. Suspect was being held in county jail on the previously mentioned rape charges of the two 14 year old girls from four months earlier.
I was told that he was held on these charges for 9 or 10 months while they tried to find evidence against him for Laurie's murder, yet he was never tried for this, nor does this arrest/incarceration appear on his record.

As I mentioned before, authorities did claim to still have a cigarrette butt from the scene where Laurie's body was found and the DNA test done on that was inconclusive. To my knowledge, he's not on any sex offender site and lives quite secure in the belief that he will never be incarcerated for Laurie, or any of his many other crimes that he's been previously arrested for, including, armed robbery, attempted murder and numerous other assaultive crimes.

Hope this answers a few of your questions.

Richard
07-25-2006, 01:47 PM
Patrick,

Thank you. This is more information than I have ever seen or heard about this case. You have answered some of my questions, but they only lead to more questions. The most obvious one being "Why wasn't he prosecuted?"

It would be very interesting to see where this guy has been over the past 36 years and to see what other coincidences there are which connect him to similar crimes.

Patrick H. Murningha
07-26-2006, 01:48 PM
Richard,

Your right about more questions instead of answers. Why he was never prosecuted is certainly the biggest, and most obvious question. Why was he never charged for the kidnapping and rape of the two 14 year olds in February, 1970? The father of one of the girls filed a complaint. The suspect, at the very least, should have been returned to prison on a parole violation for that. I can only surmise that authorities decided that this heroin addict, with a history of violence, was more valuable as a drug informant then the risk he posed to the community.
They made a deal with the devil, and rather admit it, they've continued to protect those that made such fatal decisions so long ago.

Richard
08-11-2006, 09:52 AM
.... Why was he never charged for the kidnapping and rape of the two 14 year olds in February, 1970? The father of one of the girls filed a complaint. The suspect, at the very least, should have been returned to prison on a parole violation for that. ....
Do you have any specifics on this abduction? Was there any press coverage?

Patrick H. Murningha
08-16-2006, 02:43 PM
Richard,

Sorry for the delay, I've been on the road.

No, there was no coverage of this incident. I do have a copy of the original police report/complaint, filed by one of the fathers, that, supposedly, was turned over to the state police due to the multi-jurisdiction involved. Thats where the record of it happening ends. Similar to the FBI having no record or file on their initial investigation, (which was quite extensive), on Laurie's case either.

Richard
08-19-2006, 09:15 AM
... I do have a copy of the original police report/complaint, filed by one of the fathers, that, supposedly, was turned over to the state police due to the multi-jurisdiction involved. Thats where the record of it happening ends. Similar to the FBI having no record or file on their initial investigation, (which was quite extensive), on Laurie's case either.
I think that the term "Multi-Jursidiction" may be a key. If it is Everybody's job, then Everybody thinks Somebody will do it, but in the end it is Nobody who does it.

I have a strong feeling that you may have simply asked the wrong person at the FBI for their records of investigation. You might write up a formal letter addressed to the Director of the FBI, siting the Freedom of Information Act, and including as many specifics as you can. Such information as the exact dates, place, names of any FBI officials that you recall etc. would help. Specifics make it easier for them to look up records, and harder to deny any FBI involvement.

Patrick H. Murningha
08-22-2006, 12:09 PM
I wasn't the only one that asked. Years ago, I spoke with a retired detective, (from another jurisdiction in the state), who asked a former partner of his to inquire into Laurie's case, through his Washington contacts. This partner reported back, so I was told, that there was no file/information on Laurie's case, as if it never happened. Even more bizarre, there appeared to be absolutely no sign, or record, of any DNA testing done in any federal facility.

When the suspect was arrested on this complaint in February, 1970, the Lansing detective did contact suspects parole agent, (remember, he had been released from prison early, just the previous month), and the record shows that the agents response was, "let me know if you convict him, then I'll violate him."
Among the many copies of reports I have from the original investigation in 1970 are records that cleary show FBI involvement, including names of the agents. Like so many before and since, I lost contact with this retired detective soon after their initial discovery.

Richard
08-23-2006, 07:21 AM
...When the suspect was arrested on this complaint in February, 1970, the Lansing detective did contact suspects parole agent, (remember, he had been released from prison early, just the previous month), and the record shows that the agents response was, "let me know if you convict him, then I'll violate him." ....
This is kind of like sitting in front of a cold stove and saying to it, "Give me heat, and then I'll put in the wood."

You are right about the handling of this case seeming to be more than a bit odd. However, I also believe that there must be files and records somewhere - and they are probably extensive.

There was a very recent case profiled on TV about a 1969 murder which was solved by new DNA testing. The victim was long believed to have been killed by John Norman Collins, who murdered a number of co-eds in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti Michigan area in 1969. The man convicted recently was not Collins and probably not connected to him in any way.

Perhaps the officers who solved that one would be interested in looking into Laurie's case.

Patrick H. Murningha
08-24-2006, 05:55 PM
Anyone, (which includes investigators from various jurisdictions, mostly in Michigan), that I've ever succeeded in inquiring about this case have all, every one of them, stopped all communication with me soon after their initial inquiry.

The thing that has bothered me about that recent conviction that you mentioned in Ann Arbor, was the blood that was found on the victim belonged to a young boy who was not anywhere near the victim, thereby suggesting that the DNA evidence was somehow contaminated. Yet he was convicted, purely on the DNA.

There was alot more evidence pointing at Laurie's killer, but it was either ignored, removed, buried or lost.

Richard
08-27-2006, 10:44 AM
Anyone, (which includes investigators from various jurisdictions, mostly in Michigan), that I've ever succeeded in inquiring about this case have all, every one of them, stopped all communication with me soon after their initial inquiry.....
While upsetting and frustrating, I have found that this is very often the case with law enforcement officers that I contact. They may call back to return a phone call, but very seldom initiate calls with updates, questions, etc. And this is not because there is any kind of conspiracy, but perhaps just the way they operate. I am speaking of numerous cases throughout the country, not just one specific one.

Some officers have explained to me that they do not like to contact family members unless they have some solid leads or suspects. Even when there is a possibility of doing DNA comparisons, there seems to be a reluctance by law enforcement to make contact with the family.

Case officers change and new ones are always taking over cold cases. There is always a "learning curve" as they become familiar with the new cases. As such, there is an opportunity for you to speak to new officers with new perspectives and interests.

Be persistant and keep asking questions. Sooner or later you will aske the right ones of the right person.

Patrick H. Murningha
09-12-2006, 12:40 AM
It was very disturbing to learn that the man from Monroe, Michigan requested the photo of Laurie's gravesite, just six or so months after her killer had moved to that area. It was more disturbing to learn that after having been informed of this request by a city employee at the cemetery, LPD did nothing to investigate the reason behind this mans interest. I learned of this almost two years later, in April of 1996.

Soon after, I went down to talk with two detectives and asked if they might check this guy out. I told them I was certain that he wasn't an old classmate of Laurie's, as he had told the lady that sent him the picture, and because he lived within miles of where her known killer had recently moved to,(100 or so miles from Lansing), it was hard to believe that this was coincidental. I told the detectives that I had met with the captain back in 1990. I also told them that I not only knew the identity of Laurie's killer, but his social security number, date of birth, and of course, his most recent known address near Monroe. I did not tell them how I acquired this information but they were cordial nonetheless. They told me that they would check him out and get back to me within a couple weeks.

They never did.

After a few weeks I tried to reach them but my messages were ignored. Then, a few months later on July 6th, 1996, one of the detectives, Dan O'Brien, approached me in a Lansing restaurant. The first thing I said to him was why hadn't he gotten back with me about this man in Monroe? What he said shocked me. "We've been waiting for you to call us back with his social security number and date of birth." That was pretty disturbing, but then it got worse. O'Brien continued with, "I can't believe your family didn't have **** whacked years ago."

From that moment on, my life has been one long struggle. To have a detective say this to me just goes against everything I've ever believed in. The struggle between your conscience and sense of whats right, against loss of all hope that justice will prevail unless you, and you alone, seek vengence for you sister's murder. Every single day I've struggled with the notion that I'm a coward for not taking the law into my own hands.

I returned to Lansing after twenty years, out of a deep sense of concern for my parents well being. I've been living a nightmare ever since. I finally left Lansing this spring, and after a few months in Ann Arbor, I came out to Colorado on the invitation of an old friend. I arrived here in Boulder just three days before the JonBenet Ramsey case returned to national headlines with the faux admissions of John Karr, and was reminded of yet another irony surrounding Laurie's murder. My grandfather, Joe Planck, was a lawyer in Lansing his entire career. During a brief period in the 1950's, he brought into his small practice a bright young lawyer named James Ramsey, John's father, and JonBenet's grandfather.

It appears that the horrible acts against the grandaughters of those two, long ago Lansing law partners, will never be explained.

But however faint, hope still flickers.

Richard
10-18-2006, 02:37 PM
Cynthia Coon age 13, Missing since January 19, 1970 from Ann Arbor, MI

I note that there was a potential suspect in Laurie's case who was released from prison in January 1970, and that he abducted and raped two 14 year old girls in February. Could there be a link here?

Link:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18386

Richard
05-08-2007, 02:23 PM
Laurie Murninghan's name appears on the website link below as currently the oldest listed Michigan case of murdered children. No further information, however.

LINK:

http://www.tendernesstour.com/id104.html

Patrick H. Murningha
05-08-2007, 09:15 PM
The Lansing State Journal listed an obituary last February for Kelly Clemmons, Laurie's known killer, who apparantly died in San Diego the month before;
....and a collective sigh of relief was heard across the land.

So why does it still hurt so much?

If true, at least he won't do more harm to other families, not that any authorities in Michigan cared much about that.

Richard
05-09-2007, 10:23 AM
The Lansing State Journal listed an obituary last February for Kelly Clemmons, Laurie's known killer, who apparantly died in San Diego the month before....

That obituary evidently ran in the Lansing State Journal on February 27, 2007 •• 979 words •• ID: lan27905000

Unfortunately, I was unable to read it without purchasing it, as they only allow free viewing of their archive for 30 days.

What did the obit say? And why would the State Journal have any interest in this guy dying out in San Diego?

Was he ever charged with crimes or incarcerated?

Richard
05-09-2007, 11:37 AM
The following Information obtained from the Michigan Inmate Locator System:

Offender Number 112333
Last Name CLEMMONS
First Name KELLY
Date of Birth 06/02/1947
Sex M
Race Black
MCL Number n/a
Location n/a
Status discharged
Earliest Release Date n/a
MaximumDischarge Date 05/22/1981
Date Paroled n/a
---------------------------------------
MDOC Number: 112333
SID Number: 0531400W
Name: KELLY LEE CLEMMONS
Racial Identification: Black
Gender: Male
Hair: Unavailable
Eyes: Unavailable
Height: n/a
Weight: n/a
Date of Birth: 06/02/1947
Age: (59)
Current Status: Discharged
Discharge Date: 05/22/1981

Michigan Record:

Sentence 1
Offense: Asslt w/Int Gr Bod Hrm Less Murder
Minimum Sentence: 5 years 0 months 0 days
MCL# 750.84
Maximum Sentence: 10 years 0 months
Date of Offense: 03/26/1976
County: not stated
Date of Sentence: 03/26/1976
Conviction Type: Unknown
Discharge Date: 05/22/1981
Discharge Reason: Offender Discharge


Sentence 2
Offense: Breaking & Entering a Building With Intent
Minimum Sentence: 3 years 0 months 0 days
MCL# 750.110
Maximum Sentence:15 years 0 months
Court File#: not available
Date of Offense: 06/01/1964
County: not stated
Date of Sentence: 06/01/1964
Conviction Type: Unknown
Discharge Date: 01/01/1972
Discharge Reason: Offender Discharge

Patrick H. Murningha
05-09-2007, 01:10 PM
Richard,
I was wrong in describing it as an "obit" it was a simple death notice, with just the bare facts that he died in San Diego the month before, (I forgot the exact date it listed). He was buried in Lansing. If there was anything else, (979 words?), I missed it. Actually, I missed the original notice when it was published and wasn't informed of it until March, 8th.

As for his record you recently posted, it's far from complete. Notice his very first conviction back in 1964, he served little time for. Later in that decade, 1968 or 69, he was convicted for armed robbery. It was while serving this sentence when he was "mysteriously" released from in January 1970, (presumedly to become a snitch). The rest you know. A month later he took the two 14 year-old girls to a Flint hotel room.

Richard
05-13-2007, 02:28 PM
... As for his record you recently posted, it's far from complete. Notice his very first conviction back in 1964, he served little time for. Later in that decade, 1968 or 69, he was convicted for armed robbery. It was while serving this sentence when he was "mysteriously" released from in January 1970, (presumedly to become a snitch). The rest you know. A month later he took the two 14 year-old girls to a Flint hotel room.

The record that I posted was all that is available on the Michigan Offender Website. I could tell from what it contained that it was incomplete for the two crime he was convicted of. It does not contain every brush with the law, or even crimes that he was charged with, but not prosecuted for, or not convicted of - Only the two which resulted in prison time.

Actually, not all of the states even have offender sites, and those which do usually only have a listing for those currently incarcerated. Michigan has records for anyone who ever served time (back into the 1960's), even though the person may have been released years ago and may even be long dead.

I was unable to find Mr. Kelly Lee Clemmons in any other state or federal inmate data base, but that does not mean that he didn't have records elsewhere. It is likely that he did.

Do you know when he moved to California? Perhaps he kidnapped and murdered there as well.

ToddK
02-01-2008, 07:51 AM
Our neighbor was Elmer Weisenberg, Battalion Chief for the Lansing Fire Dept. We were at a pool part at his home when word came over his ever present radio that they had found Lauries body. I recall that whole tragedy very well. I recall Chief Weisenberg telling my parents something about her ear. So many unsolved cases from the 70's.

ttrachel04
02-01-2008, 10:43 AM
i've heard of criminals getting away w/ murder because officials don't have enough evidence to go to trial. but after reading post #29, that seems like a load of BS to me. ive definitely seen people convicted of crimes on less evidence.

has anyone thought about going to the media and giving them a link to this post or to this forum? and AFTER going to the media, going to the cops? it seems like in the past, threatening going to the media didn't work so well, so why not just go them?

Richard
02-04-2008, 11:35 AM
Although there may have been many leads and even some suspects, the case is still officially unsolved.

The Michigan State Police claim that it is the Lansing City Police who have jurisdiction in this matter.

Richard
08-06-2008, 12:53 PM
Bumping case up. It has been 38 years since Laurie's murder.

Richard
05-23-2010, 04:56 PM
This summer will mark the 40th anniversary of the abduction and murder of Laurie Murninghan. The case remains officially unsolved.

Richard
10-20-2010, 07:36 PM
Websleuths was the first on-line site to carry the story of Laurie Murninghan's 1970 murder. Here is a link to another website which has a thread about her.


...The tragic riddle began on July 9th 1970 Laurie Murninghan was
at her summer job as a clerk at Gallagher's Gifts & Antiques at
1010 W. Saginaw St.on Lansings West Side..

Around 2:30pm Thursday,her first day back at work since returning
with her family from a vacation in New Hampshire...

A slim soft-spoken Negro man,around 25 or 30 years old,entered the
shop & asked Laurie to change a $20 bill...

When she said she couldn't change the bill..

The black male pulled a gun siezed her & struck the shop's owner
Mrs. Christine Gallagher with his gun..The gun fired into the ceiling..

Authorities believe the man thought he killed Mrs.Gallagher
So he kidnapped Laurie,the only other witness in the store..

The man grabbed $60 from the cash drawer & fled with
Laurie Murninghan -Kidnapping her at gun-point..

Since she was the only other witness in the store.

At least 4 Witnesses outside in the area of the Gift Shop say:
A black male took Miss Murninghan down an alley at gun point & disappeared...

The search for Miss Murninghan & her kidnapper was one of the
most extensive police manhunts ever held in mid-Michigan history..

But nothing was ever found by law-enforcement linked to the
Murninghan Case..

On July 20 1970 3 young boys looking for pop bottles along a rural
road20 miles southeast of Lansing discovered Laurie Murninghan's body..
16-year-old Laurie Murninghan was found on the edge of the game area
at Barnes and Meridian roads..

Miss Murninghan's badly decomposed body was lying face down
in a swampy area..

In a heavily wooded section of the game area a few feet from the road...
Several weeks later the County Coroner attributed death to Strangulation
& signs she had been Raped..

There is a suspect that matches the witnesses description
of black male gunman..

There was a drug store next to the Gift Shop in 1970..

Black male suspect left prints in the drug store on an inhaler..

The suspect's girlfriend at the time lived 3 blocks from the Crime Scene.
But police did not have enough evidence to convict him..

So her Killer has never been Charged.. ... (More at link)...

Source:

Cold Case Investigations

LINK:

Murninghan:7-9-70_Robbed_Kidnapped_Raped _Murdered - Cold Case Investigations

Danaya
11-19-2010, 09:43 PM
Didn't her brother post that the suspect has since died?

Dreamnine
06-16-2011, 12:53 PM
This has to be one of the saddest threads I have read - a tragic case and a real travesty of justice.

Richard
05-15-2012, 07:59 AM
This June will mark 42 years since Laurie's abduction and murder.

Richard
02-17-2013, 02:19 PM
The proper title of this thread should be:

Laurie D. Murninghan, 16, Murdered 9 July 1970, Lansing, MI

It was not her parents, Max and Patricia who were murdered, as is obvious in my very first post of this thread. Hope it can be corrected.

Admirer
03-19-2013, 09:06 AM
Pat, You know how much I adored Laurie. How many times did I ring the doorbell to see if she was home...probably had you all hiding, saying "Oh no, she's back again!" To me, Laurie was a ray of sunshine, outside my life of imaginary friends. She was my protector during frightening events. Throughout the years (as happened a couple days ago when I saw her mentioned in the City Pulse Story of How Lansing Police Bury Their Cold Cases) I have become so angry and sad. The City Pulse article lead me to type her name into the computer and that is how I found this site. I WAS LIVID. I am so disgusted with everything you have been through. Had I known, I would certainly offered to help you. That offer is still there (later than it should be). What happened to Laurie in addition to the other things that went on had an effect on my life (that I didn't even realize until adulthood). Even now, there is unresolved. My husband hopes that I can find closure through this. If you do see this, Pat, I want to wish you as much peace as you can possibly find in this life. There are so many of us with you in silence. Your neighbor, Becky

Patrick H. Murningha
03-22-2013, 01:34 PM
Thank you Becky, for your kind words.
I wish peace for you as well.

Pat

Admirer
05-22-2013, 06:43 PM
The May 22-28 Lansing City Pulse reports that Mayor Bernero included a line item in March (after City Pulse reported little organization in LPD investigations of unsolved homicides). Mayor Bernero set aside 100,000 for a new full time cold-case investigator and promises to veto City Council excluding it. I wrote to both The Mayor's Office and City Council myself, along with others after that March article. It is my hope that others did too. It is my hope that the truth will come to all who live with the questions about Laurie, and perhaps others may be saved secondary to the continued questions and persistence surrounding her horrendous case. Becky

Bluecat
05-28-2013, 11:32 AM
It looks like this may never be officially solved. The police believe they know who the killer was, and he died in 1992.

http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20130527/NEWS01/305270010/Lansing-cold-case-files-Early-70s-saw-string-killings-women

The first of the killings received nationwide attention. In July 1970, Laurie Murninghan, the teenage daughter of Lansing’s onetime mayor, Max Murninghan, was abducted from the gift shop on Saginaw Street where she worked and then killed.
During the robbery, the man struck the shop’s owner in the head and his gun fired into the ceiling. Police said he may have panicked, thinking he had shot the owner. With $64 looted from the cash register, he led Murninghan at gunpoint to a car.
Eleven days later, her body was found in a wooded, swampy area off Barnes Road, south of Mason.
Police believed they identified the killer, but never had enough evidence to charge the man.
Ray Scodeller, who was Ingham County’s prosecutor at the time, said the suspect, who served prison time in an unrelated case, is now dead.
“That’s who’s always been the prime suspect,” Scodeller said.
He said investigators spent thousands of hours working the case. They injected the suspect with a so-called “truth serum,” a once-accepted practice, but it didn’t work.

Admirer
05-29-2013, 08:56 AM
Regardless the death, there are many unanswered questions and people with answers to those questions. The truths need to be told, as there can never be any peace until they are!