PDA

View Full Version : State v Bradley Cooper - 3/24/11



Pages : [1] 2 3

Salem
03-23-2011, 11:12 PM
Please continue here.

Please review the TOS and the RULES at this link: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

There are always two (or more) sides to every case. Be respectful of each other. If you disagree with someone and cannot respond intelligently, then MOVE PAST the post. There is no requirement that every post be responded to. If another poster irks you, no matter what they say, put them on your ignore list. (If you need help with that, send me a pm.)

Always remember - if you respond to a post that upsets you in a way that violates the rules or TOS, you may find that you are the one that is in trouble. Instead - just alert the post and let the mods handle it.

Thanks,

Salem

YOU MUST THANK THIS POST BEFORE POSTING IN THIS THREAD.

carolinalady
03-24-2011, 06:48 AM
I'm really looking forward to the computer experts (hopefully today).

I wanted to thank those are able to watch the live stream and give us the play by play. When I have to catch up in the afternoon, I have found it to be much more thorough and accurate than the Twitter feeds.

happy2binNC
03-24-2011, 08:27 AM
Hi, I'm new here. I've been following the threads on this case since day 1 but finally decided to get an account and join the discussion. I'm hoping to go to court one day next week.

Overly-Curious
03-24-2011, 08:29 AM
Good Morning Everyone. I am new to posting as well..but have been following the discussions since last week.

borndem
03-24-2011, 08:47 AM
Good Morning Everyone. I am new to posting as well..but have been following the discussions since last week.

Welcome to you, O-C :seeya: Glad to have you with us!!

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 08:48 AM
Good morning everyone and welcome happy2binNC and overly-curious!

borndem
03-24-2011, 08:49 AM
Hi, I'm new here. I've been following the threads on this case since day 1 but finally decided to get an account and join the discussion. I'm hoping to go to court one day next week.

Good Morning, and glad to have you!! :seeya: Glad you like it in NC.

luckyme
03-24-2011, 09:00 AM
I think today will be interesting. I dont know a darn thing about computers. I have to work from home today, but will be checking in. :seeya:

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 09:05 AM
Going to try to watch some live feed this morning. Do you guys have a link? I watched bits & pieces last night. Some of Ice's testimony wasn't posted till after 9:30pm last night! Some days it's posted right away and yesterday the last video was pretty darn late. WRAL split Ice's testimony into 2 videos and those weren't even there at 8pm when I was looking for it.

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:11 AM
Good morning everyone! I'll be here alllllll day :)

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:12 AM
Kelly, I just watch it on WRAL. I never even checked to see who else is running it.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 09:21 AM
Kelly, I just watch it on WRAL. I never even checked to see who else is running it.

I do watch it on WRAL.com. I am not local anymore. We moved last year out of Cary. So I have been watching the recorded testimony at night. No buffering and I can pay more attention at night than with a toddler hanging on me all day.

kar
03-24-2011, 09:22 AM
Hi everybody,
I have been lurking on here since this happened a couple of years ago but I rarely post. This is how I heard about this site (I live fairly close and drive by Lochmere almost every day) and I am now totally addicted.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 09:25 AM
Good morning everybody! I am really looking forward to the computer testimony today. There has to be something there.

I think somebody posted yesterday that many of us think this was a crime in the heat of the moment so I am really interested to see if there was something on those computers or with the phone calls that led to premeditation.

P.S.: I hope I didn't offend anybody yesterday I do really appreciate hearing all sides of this because yes I am still :fence: but mainly because I need more actual proof.

borndem
03-24-2011, 09:30 AM
Going to try to watch some live feed this morning. Do you guys have a link? I watched bits & pieces last night. Some of Ice's testimony wasn't posted till after 9:30pm last night! Some days it's posted right away and yesterday the last video was pretty darn late. WRAL split Ice's testimony into 2 videos and those weren't even there at 8pm when I was looking for it.

I watch it on WRAL's online website (yeah, give me a C- for redundancy!) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon11.gif

(online website, really now, Bondem)

http://www.wral.com/news/video/9247382/#/vid9247382

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 09:31 AM
Here's the live link for WRAL's online coverage

http://www.wral.com/news/video/9247382/#/vid9247382

JiminWilton
03-24-2011, 09:31 AM
To expound a bit on Kurtz's objections regarding having his computer expert present while Ice was testifying...

I have been qualified as an expert in three civil trials. Because of the arcane nature of the testimony of a qualified expert, the attorneys wish to have their own expert present in order to hear the direct testimony and make suggestions on appropriate questions for cross. In each trial, opposing counsel had the courtesy and decency to notify his adversary of when the expert testimony was expected in order to avoid the nuisance of having an expensive expert sit through irrelevant testimony.

However, I think that Det. Ice was a lightweight when it came to testimony on computer forensics, and if Kurtz wished to make him appear barely competent to the jury, I think he did his job. Prosecution should have left his less-than-impressive computer experience out and just let him provide foundation for how the laptop got to CPD.

What's the current catch phrase... Just sayin'

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:32 AM
I do watch it on WRAL.com. I am not local anymore. We moved last year out of Cary. So I have been watching the recorded testimony at night. No buffering and I can pay more attention at night than with a toddler hanging on me all day.

Well that's better anyway.. no distractions. I moved from Cary in 99. I miss it so much.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 09:36 AM
Hey I think the judge just gave us a shout out! :great:

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:36 AM
Haha is the judge talking to us???

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 09:38 AM
No court Friday afternoons from now on

NCB
03-24-2011, 09:38 AM
Good morning everyone! Looking forward to today's testimony--welcome to all the lurkers/newbie posters who recently signed up for WS accounts like me! This community has some great minds and I enjoy the theories shared by all.

Have a great day! :)

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 09:44 AM
Kurtz is questioning him on the storage of the computer equipment. It was not stored in the evidence room, but in the computer lab. Computer lab is locked with only 3 people having keys, Ice, another detective and the janitor. It's a secure room, but does not require people to sign in/out.

CyberPro
03-24-2011, 09:46 AM
Hey I think the judge just gave us a shout out! :great:

Details Please.... what'd he say??

FullDisclosure
03-24-2011, 09:47 AM
This tweet made me chuckle.


Onion News just reported that confused jurors ask judge in Cooper trial to explain why defense got to go before prosecution. #coopertrial

:giggle:

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Hey I think the judge just gave us a shout out! :great:

?? What did he say? My feed dropped out.

luckyme
03-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Kurtz is questioning him on the storage of the computer equipment. It was not stored in the evidence room, but in the computer lab. Computer lab is locked with only 3 people having keys, Ice, another detective and the janitor. It's a secure room, but does not require people to sign in/out.

must be something on that puter!

CyberPro
03-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Kurtz is questioning him on the storage of the computer equipment. It was not stored in the evidence room, but in the computer lab. Computer lab is locked with only 3 people having keys, Ice, another detective and the janitor. It's a secure room, but does not require people to sign in/out.

The defense is supremely concerned about whatever is on those computers. They are going to be trying their level best to impeach anyone who came within a mile of 'em.

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:49 AM
So again he is trying to get evidence in???

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 09:49 AM
Details Please.... what'd he say??

Oh he was talking about taking Fridays off and he said something to the effect of "There are a lot of people out there watching this trial and we don't want them to think we aren't using our time wisely."

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:50 AM
dang it. What the heck???

CyberPro
03-24-2011, 09:51 AM
To expound a bit on Kurtz's objections regarding having his computer expert present while Ice was testifying...

I have been qualified as an expert in three civil trials. Because of the arcane nature of the testimony of a qualified expert, the attorneys wish to have their own expert present in order to hear the direct testimony and make suggestions on appropriate questions for cross. In each trial, opposing counsel had the courtesy and decency to notify his adversary of when the expert testimony was expected in order to avoid the nuisance of having an expensive expert sit through irrelevant testimony.

However, I think that Det. Ice was a lightweight when it came to testimony on computer forensics, and if Kurtz wished to make him appear barely competent to the jury, I think he did his job. Prosecution should have left his less-than-impressive computer experience out and just let him provide foundation for how the laptop got to CPD.

What's the current catch phrase... Just sayin'

OK, Sherlock (not mocking you, just a reference to your avatar)

What are you an expert witness in?

I am curious because I have wondered if I have the chops to be considered an expert witness in computers.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 09:51 AM
"There are a lot of people out there watching this trial and we don't want them to think we aren't using our time wisely."

ahhh. That's not a shout out to Websleuths...just acknowledging the media feed in the courtroom and his knowledge that a lot of people are watching this trial online, in general.

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:54 AM
ahhh. That's not a shout out to Websleuths...just acknowledging the media feed in the courtroom and his knowledge that a lot of people are watching this trial online, in general.

That's what I thought. More to the people watching the feed. I thought it was funny that the judge looked at the camera and smiled and nodded when he said it too.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 09:54 AM
Arguing over the submission of cell phone records by the defense. Jury sent out.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 09:56 AM
The poor jury has to miss the best part of the trial. When these two attorneys start going at it, it becomes much more interesting than the majority of the testimony.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 09:57 AM
Is this trial being streamed anywhere else other than on WRAL?

I cannot get the feed to work consistently...it's dropping out every few seconds.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 09:58 AM
Arguing over the submission of cell phone records by the defense. Jury sent out.

Shouldn't this material simply be introduced during the defense portion of the trial, so we don't have these continual objections.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 09:59 AM
Great question from the jury. "Michelle Hammond (sp) said cigarette butt received July 17th date on cigarette butt is July 8th. Jury would like clarification"

CyberPro
03-24-2011, 09:59 AM
Arguing over the submission of cell phone records by the defense. Jury sent out.

Hasn't the defense been slapped around on this topic enough? They are trying to "save time" by introducing contrary evidence while the prosecution witness is on the stand. The prosecution says something, and the defense wants to jump up with a piece of paper and refute what he is saying. "You honor, this witness says he found 30,000 searches on the computer relating to murder and dumping bodies, I would like to introduce into evidence a note from BC's mother stating that he did not do that!"

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 09:59 AM
Haha judge told them to be on their best behavior :)

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:00 AM
Is this trial being streamed anywhere else other than on WRAL?

I cannot get the feed to work consistently...it's dropping out every few seconds.

Here's a link to ABC

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8020507

borndem
03-24-2011, 10:02 AM
Gee -- everyone is being so nice this morning -- Maybe the court principals have been to counseling together -- sounds like they had a better marriage counselor than poor NC & BC.

A refreshing breeze on both sides so far. :great:

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 10:03 AM
Okay I cannot get the video streaming to work, so I'll have to rely on good note takers posting on this forum to get my updates.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:07 AM
All done with detective Ice. State calls Dectective Todd Thomas.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 10:07 AM
Great redirect by the state....

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:08 AM
That witness has been excused and Det. Todd Thomas (I believe the actual computer expert) is the next witness.

JiminWilton
03-24-2011, 10:12 AM
OK, Sherlock (not mocking you, just a reference to your avatar)

What are you an expert witness in?

I am curious because I have wondered if I have the chops to be considered an expert witness in computers.

Property boundaries as a licensed Professional Land Surveyor

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:13 AM
Right now the state is once again asking about what he observed about the computers when he went into the house. Photographed first. Now showing pictures to help illustrate his testimony.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:21 AM
I'm pretty sure this is just going to be more of the seizing of computers and not the actual information found so I don't know that we're going to find out much today. The FBI did the analysis (I'm pretty sure.)

dcnc
03-24-2011, 10:21 AM
That witness has been excused and Det. Todd Thomas (I believe the actual computer expert) is the next witness.

So far Det. Thomas is not a verbose guy - very short, direct answers.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:23 AM
Darn I wish we could see the pictures. I am already getting confused as to which machines he is talking about.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:25 AM
The defense once again objected to admitting into evidence the electronic evidence due to something about chain of custody.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:26 AM
The object admitted was the Maxtor external hard drive that was connected to some other computer. (The one in the living room I believe.)

gracielee
03-24-2011, 10:28 AM
So far Det. Thomas is not a verbose guy - very short, direct answers.

He appears to have more experience and confidence in testifying in court. That's what the lawyer advises, 'short, direct answers' when they prep you to testify. :innocent:

My husband has testified as an expert witness a couple times, years ago, product liability civil trial/s. His testimony was in respect to electrical/electromechanical engineering.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:28 AM
The object admitted was the Maxtor external hard drive that was connected to some other computer. (The one in the living room I believe.)

Could you tell if it was attached to a different desktop machine or to the MacBook? I think it was attached to the MacBook based on the firewire comment.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:28 AM
There's an IBM Thinkpad laptop, a HP Tower desktop machine box thing , & an Apple laptop and external hard drive. They just submitted another piece of equipment, but I'm not sure what it was. Lots of bag rustling. Yesterday, I heard them talking about a Dell server.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 10:31 AM
GREAT direct by Zellinger!

Simple, direct, consistent, making sure every possible paranoid scenario is covered to show those computers were secure and NOT tampered with. He's using plain English, quick pace.

A+++

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:31 AM
There's an IBM Thinkpad laptop, a HP Tower desktop machine box thing , & an Apple laptop and external hard drive. They just submitted another piece of equipment, but I'm not sure what it was. Lots of bag rustling. Yesterday, I heard them talking about an HP server.

Thanks! I think I am caught up now. Thinkpad attached to docking station in office area. HP Workstation in same area but not attached to anything. Apple Macbook downstairs attached to external hard drive.

I am very interested in the workstation and the MacBook as far as potential incriminating evidence.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:32 AM
Could you tell if it was attached to a different desktop machine or to the MacBook? I think it was attached to the MacBook based on the firewire comment.

Unfortunately I walked into the kitchen so I missed the details.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:33 AM
The object admitted was the Maxtor external hard drive that was connected to some other computer. (The one in the living room I believe.)


Yep. The external harddrive was definitely hooked up to the apple/macbook laptop that was in the family room.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:33 AM
GREAT direct by Zellinger!

Simple, direct, consistent, making sure every possible paranoid scenario is covered to show those computers were secure and NOT tampered with. He's using plain English, quick pace.

A+++

He is doing a good job. It's going to be important to keep things clear for the jury. This has the potential to get very confusing.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 10:34 AM
GREAT direct by Zellinger!

Simple, direct, consistent, making sure every possible paranoid scenario is covered to show those computers were secure and NOT tampered with. He's using plain English, quick pace.

A+++

Too bad he didn't handle Dr Butts!!!!!!
Howard Cummings needs to retire.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:34 AM
Looking at the 2 cameras. One looks to be a Digital SLR and the other is Hello Kitty.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:37 AM
Looking at the 2 cameras. One looks to be a Digital SLR and the other is Hello Kitty.

No telling what the heck a 4 year old and a 2 year old would capture on their digital camera. My son takes the craziest pictures with his. That might be interesting.

borndem
03-24-2011, 10:39 AM
Well now we have a child's "Hello Kitty" camera....

SG -- Kittens, perhaps?! :cat:

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 10:39 AM
Howard Cummings needs to retire.

Yes! Like this afternoon!

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:39 AM
Entering into evidence a Sony voice recorder, two flash drives and several disks. This detective examined one of the flash drives and one of the disks and I'm guessing the voice recorder.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:43 AM
He wasn't able to get anything off of one of the flash drives and copied what was on the other drive to a CD. (One was verizon which I would have thought would have been for internet connection and not storage of data.)

less0305
03-24-2011, 10:44 AM
Too bad he didn't handle Dr Butts!!!!!!
Howard Cummings needs to retire.

Do you think Cummings drives Zellinger up a wall also? I bet Zellinger squirms wanting to take over and get the business done!

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 10:45 AM
Now talking about a Motorola cell phone. Connected it to a cell phone extraction kit.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 10:45 AM
So is this the Blackberry with the *lost* data?

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:46 AM
Motorola cell phone was examined by Detective Thomas. No data found.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 10:46 AM
So is this the Blackberry with the *lost* data?

apparently not. :(

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:49 AM
No data found on Motorola phone using datapilot toolkit later connected with cellebrite which showed 250 contacts. Means it can hold 250 entries. No contacts in the report. nothing on cell phone.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:52 AM
Attempted to examine samsung cell phone but could not due to credent encryption on phone.

I believe this is BC's Blackjack they are referring to.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 10:53 AM
Now talking about a Blackberry Pearl no data found.

3 cell phones examined.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 10:53 AM
Attached NC's Blackberry to Data Pilot cellphone toolkit, found no data.

borndem
03-24-2011, 10:55 AM
Samsung phone sent to FBI...

NC's blackberry dumped -- no data found by this witness.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Showing picture of router and wireless access point in the office area. Asking if Det. Thomas recognizes the equipment.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Well darn, I had to step out and missed this. Was anything important testified to? Was it this witness who'd 'dumped' the contents of the Blackberry?

borndem
03-24-2011, 11:02 AM
recess

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 11:03 AM
Well darn, I had to step out and missed this. Was anything important testified to? Was it this witness who'd 'dumped' the contents of the Blackberry?

No. There was no data found. The witness didn't erase anything.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 11:08 AM
Is it possible that Brad is the one who deleted information off of his own and Nancy's cell phones?

caryresident
03-24-2011, 11:10 AM
Is it possible that Brad is the one who deleted information off of his own and Nancy's cell phones?

Possible. Can the data be retrieved if he did?

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 11:11 AM
Possible. Can the data be retrieved if he did?

I don't know.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:12 AM
Possible. Can the data be retrieved if he did?

From the Samsung yes, from the other phones I'm not sure.

dcnc
03-24-2011, 11:12 AM
Is it possible that Brad is the one who deleted information off of his own and Nancy's cell phones?

I got the feeling that's where the ADA was going, but it's just a hunch on my part.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 11:12 AM
Is it possible that Brad is the one who deleted information off of his own and Nancy's cell phones?

Probably not, Brad didn't know how to find the call history, 'member? :floorlaugh:

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:14 AM
I hope they have a picture to show or show the actual back of the HP Workstation. I am interested to see what peripherals are in there. With it being completely unplugged, looks suspicious to me that something may have been removed prior to LE arrival.

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 11:20 AM
Is it possible that Brad is the one who deleted information off of his own and Nancy's cell phones?

No. The CPD officer (can't remember his name) claims that he was unable to figure out how to obtain the information without knowing NC's password. He claims that he finally spoke to someone at AT&T (never mentioned the rep's name though) and he was walked through it but somehow (oops) erased all the data. All of it. Kurtz will show that it's impossible to "accidentally" erase everything because a big screen appears several times "are you sure you wish to delete this data?". It should be interesting.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:24 AM
No. The CPD officer (can't remember his name) claims that he was unable to figure out how to obtain the information without knowing NC's password. He claims that he finally spoke to someone at AT&T (never mentioned the rep's name though) and he was walked through it but somehow (oops) erased all the data. All of it. Kurtz will show that it's impossible to "accidentally" erase everything because a big screen appears several times "are you sure you wish to delete this data?". It should be interesting.

I do find this odd that CPD messed around with it at all let alone to the point of calling AT&T and erasing data rather than turning it over to the forensic officers for handling.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 11:25 AM
http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/local/2010/01/26/6886997/michelle_pregnant_01-360x480.jpg

lib's mom
03-24-2011, 11:30 AM
Do you think Cummings drives Zellinger up a wall also? I bet Zellinger squirms wanting to take over and get the business done!

I've wondered the same thing myself. I did get the sense more than once he was itching to push him down and take over, BUT he has been very respectful.

I realize Mr. Cummings didn't get this far in his career based on his scores in the talent, interview and bathing suit portions on the competition alone.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:30 AM
Cross-exam talking about taking notes during forensic exam and that none were taken, no photos taken and no witnesses to the examination of the cell phone.

per_curiam
03-24-2011, 11:31 AM
I've wondered the same thing myself. I did get the sense more than once he was itching to push him down and take over, BUT he has been very respectful.

I realize Mr. Cummings didn't get this far in his career based on his scores in the talent, interview and bathing suit portions on the competition alone.

Well, if Cummings had been one of my teachers in high school or college, I may have become a dropout.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:33 AM
Det. Thomas ran a test yesterday to determine how Cellebrite displays information.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 11:33 AM
I've wondered the same thing myself. I did get the sense more than once he was itching to push him down and take over, BUT he has been very respectful.

I realize Mr. Cummings didn't get this far in his career based on his scores in the talent, interview and bathing suit portions on the competition alone.

Well, because of low pay, the DA's office is hard pressed to find and keep a good a "senior" ADA. Maybe that's why he is still there?

gracielee
03-24-2011, 11:33 AM
Cross-exam talking about taking notes during forensic exam and that none were taken, no photos taken and no witnesses to the examination of the cell phone.

Is his *expert* in the courtroom today?

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 11:34 AM
IMHO, Kurtz is making a BIG TO-DO about these cell phones because he's desperate to take the jury attention off the computers and try to make CPD look incompetent AND corrupt.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:35 AM
Is his *expert* in the courtroom today?

Good question. I don't know.

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 11:35 AM
Talking about NC's blackberry now.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 11:36 AM
IMHO, Kurtz is making a BIG TO-DO about these cell phones because he's desperate to take the jury attention off the computers and try to make CPD look incompetent AND corrupt.

If that is what he is trying to do, he does appear to be showing that investigation may not have been handled as well as it should have been.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 11:38 AM
If that is what he is trying to do, he does appear to be showing that investigation may not have been handled as well as it should have been.

It might not have been handled as well as it could (I suspect it wasn't). But neither do I think any evidence was planted. Nor do I think any information was lost that would point to any other suspect.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 11:40 AM
You can take the sim card out of a cell phone......You can't take the dweeb card out of Kurtz.

BrownRice
03-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Regarding all the cell phones that came up "empty" (excluding NC's that was deleted) - is their any "innocent" reason these would be empty? Like when you get a new phone and all your contacts are transferred over from your old phone? Would that be a scenario or no?

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 11:47 AM
There is also the possibility that Nancy didn't store any data on her phone because she was concerned that Brad might access it.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 11:48 AM
They had a bench conference and suddenly went from the cell phone to the IBM Thinkpad.

borndem
03-24-2011, 11:49 AM
Kurtz on cross --

I think Kurtz is a quick,smart guy, and he is probably quick-witted and fun in personal situations (seriously),but it is difficult for me to like him in this courtroom. (Trenkle, OTOH, seems like a nice, steady, even guy.) I think the jury may not like K., either.

I can and hear see his seeming semi-horror when some of his questions are answered. (Now the witness is "bowing his neck," getting defensive a bit, and stiffening, too, and this guy has been so willing, alert and easygoing in his testimony. It's getting colder in there, now.)

This tactic may work well in malpractice or personal injury cases (still being serious here) but it's not working for me during this sad-for-everybody-involved process. But I guess it must work...http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon5.gif

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 11:50 AM
Rats! Did anyone else catch the question that Kurtz withdrew?

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 11:52 AM
There is also the possibility that Nancy didn't store any data on her phone because she was concerned that Brad might access it.

There was no data...that's different than not having contacts, etc.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 11:53 AM
I think there is the possibility of antagonizing the jury when you beat up someone who is 'just doing his job' in the case. I'm sure it's a fine line, but Kurtz seems to occasionally cross that line. Trenkle I'm more impressed with. I would utilize his services if I had to, rather than the lead defense attorney.

CyberPro
03-24-2011, 11:54 AM
Regarding all the cell phones that came up "empty" (excluding NC's that was deleted) - is their any "innocent" reason these would be empty? Like when you get a new phone and all your contacts are transferred over from your old phone? Would that be a scenario or no?

Seems to me that the cleaning BC did that morning did not stop with normal household chores. Looks like there was a bit of cellphone data scrubbing going on too.

Would be interesting if they found history in the computer about the number of password attempts on NC's locked BB to cause it to erase all the data, no?

I would have liked to have seen the contents of all the phones, but as RC mentioned, when there is NO trace evidence, that IS evidence. Perhaps not enough to convict, but we won't know for a while yet.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 11:55 AM
It might not have been handled as well as it could (I suspect it wasn't). But neither do I think any evidence was planted. Nor do I think any information was lost that would point to any other suspect.

I guess we'll never know. There could have been a text by JP saying meetme Saturday morning at 7:15. Doubtful, but we'll never know now. Regardless, the CPD f'd that up (along with a bunch of other things). Again, if they can show that JY erased the data of that phone by ignoring all of the warnings and without a search warrant, it should darn near be criminal.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Has there been any testimony or facts that NC had any sort of relationship with JP the last couple years?

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 12:06 PM
why can't this dude just ask a question???

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:06 PM
Det. Thomas is handling these questions well regarding information that resides on a cell phone that would not be seen in a cell phone record.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 12:07 PM
Has there been any testimony or facts that NP had any sort of relationship with JP the last couple years?

There's been no testimony of any relationship Nancy had outside of her marriage, let alone JP, let alone in the 2 yrs prior to her death.

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 12:09 PM
Oh my goodness. This questioning is making me mad. If I were that witness I would be answering like he is. I don't blame him.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 12:11 PM
Has there been any testimony or facts that NP had any sort of relationship with JP the last couple years?

There has not been any testimony in this trial regarding the connection between JP and NC that I have seen or heard.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 12:11 PM
I had to put the audio on mute. I cannot stand listening to Kurtz' high-pitched questioning.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Kurtz asked "wouldn't it be helpful if a video was made" of the cell phone examination.

State objected. Judge sustained.

lol.. He's getting a little nuts.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Ok woah I just got confused. We again left the phone and jumped to the thinkpad.

borndem
03-24-2011, 12:13 PM
why can't this dude just ask a question???

If K could ask a normal question that has a question mark after it, if written, he could obtain better answers... Gee, I wonder if he knows that??? :waitasec: He makes a statement, then looks at witness and expects an answer. Zellinger & de Judge aren't letting him do that. The judge is getting a scosh tired of it...

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 12:13 PM
Ok woah I just got confused. We again left the phone and jumped to the thinkpad.

Me too.

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 12:14 PM
Hahaha. Love the phone books. Did he get those from the court house 5 minutes ago?

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:14 PM
Was Kurtz saying the document showed the thinkpad being transferred to the FBI on 2 separate dates?

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 12:15 PM
If K could ask a normal question that has a question mark after it, if written, he could obtain better answers... Gee, I wonder if he knows that??? :waitasec: He makes a statement, then looks at witness and expects an answer. Zellinger & de Judge aren't letting him do that. The judge is getting a scosh tired of it...

Exactly. That's what was driving me nuts. And he kept doing it! Even after the objections were sustained.

fran
03-24-2011, 12:15 PM
FWIW, I don't know if there's evidence on these phones and computers or not. But the job of the def attorney is to put 'reasonable doubt' as to the suspect's possible guilt.

Attack the law (usually done pre-trial)

Attack the evidence

Attack the witness.

The def seems to be keeping by the normal def tactic play-book.

JMHO
fran

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Det. Jim Young has taken the stand

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Here's your guy SG.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:17 PM
There has not been any testimony in this trial regarding the connection between JP and NC that I have seen or heard.

I would imagine that wouldn't come out in the States case...however, I believe JA did confirm some of it.

less0305
03-24-2011, 12:18 PM
If K could ask a normal question that has a question mark after it, if written, he could obtain better answers... Gee, I wonder if he knows that??? :waitasec: He makes a statement, then looks at witness and expects an answer. Zellinger & de Judge aren't letting him do that. The judge is getting a scosh tired of it...

In other words, HE is testifying. That drives me nuts. ASK a question - don't make a statement.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:18 PM
Was Kurtz saying the document showed the thinkpad being transferred to the FBI on 2 separate dates?

Yes...3 days apart. But the witness said that shouldn't happen.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 12:18 PM
My lawn man to-be!

< old joke, which those who were around in 2008 should remember >

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:19 PM
My lawn man to-be!

< old joke, which those who were around in 2008 should remember >

I do. I remember a little sleuth-crush on detective Jim Young.

Maja
03-24-2011, 12:25 PM
I do. I remember a little sleuth-crush on detective Jim Young.

SG has good taste :)

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:27 PM
Has it ever been asked if Brad Cooper is color blind?

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
So according to JY testimony D. Duncan is the one who said NC was wearing a black desk and flip flops.

BrownRice
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
Has it ever been asked if Brad Cooper is color blind?

My husband would not know the difference between blue, green, or teal when it comes to a print dress. Nor would he probably remember it had a print.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
I do. I remember a little sleuth-crush on detective Jim Young.

heh. Not actually, though I did think he's cute. But he's off my pretend-lawnboy list! His erasing the the BB has made me :mad:.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:37 PM
Flip Flops located under foyer table confirmed by BC, & the Duncans to be the ones worn by NC the night of the party.

Now CPD begins looking for Blue or Black dress with thin straps.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:37 PM
Did he say that BC left him and the other detective alone in the house (or room)?

FullDisclosure
03-24-2011, 12:38 PM
Did he say that BC left him and the other detective alone in the house (or room)?

Yes, he did.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:39 PM
Did he say that BC left him and the other detective alone in the house (or room)?

Yes he said he thought they were alone. I am getting confused as to the timeline in his testimony though.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 12:39 PM
So according to JY testimony D. Duncan is the one who said NC was wearing a black desk and flip flops.

I could be mistaken, but didn't DD testify that Brad came to them and asked if they could help search for the *black* dress that Nancy had been wearing at the party the previous night?

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:40 PM
My husband would not know the difference between blue, green, or teal when it comes to a print dress. Nor would he probably remember it had a print.

Agreed. My husband is color blind and would have called the dress blue or grey.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 12:41 PM
I could be mistaken, but didn't DD testify that Brad came to them and asked if they could help search for the *black* dress that Nancy had been wearing at the party the previous night?

Yes, Brad specifically asked DD to help him look for the 'black' dress.

CyberPro
03-24-2011, 12:42 PM
So according to JY testimony D. Duncan is the one who said NC was wearing a black desk and flip flops.


Hummmm, it might just be me, but I would think if I saw someone wearing a black desk it would stand out in my memory. :crazy: :innocent:

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:44 PM
So JY provided the shoe to the K9 detective, not BC. JY specifically asked for a running shoe. All that discussion on here about BC trying to throw off the dog because he didn't provide a flip flop, and it was the detective that asked for a running shoe.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:45 PM
Hummmm, it might just be me, but I would think if I saw someone wearing a black desk it would stand out in my memory. :crazy: :innocent:

Yep, yet DD didn't question it when Brad said black...and thought she remembered her wearing a black dress as well.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:46 PM
Just reporting what JY is testifying to. He said Brad told him the dress was blue and he heard DD say the dress was black. Nobody on this day apparently mentioned green nor print.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 12:51 PM
DD spent more time with NC on the 11th than BC did. Also, she's a woman...you women notice and remember that type of stuff (said jokingly as I duck). My wife still pulls that stuff on me. She'll pull out a baby outfit that was given to my 8 year old when she was a baby and ask me questions assuming I remember who gave it to us, all the times she wore it, etc. I couldn't tell you what my wife is wearing right now, and she's downstairs.

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 12:53 PM
Assuming they're on a lunch break now. How long does it usually last?

borndem
03-24-2011, 12:53 PM
I do. I remember a little sleuth-crush on detective Jim Young.

Well, he IS cute!!

Ooh, pretty eyes, huh? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 12:59 PM
Assuming they're on a lunch break now. How long does it usually last?

Video Feed says they will be back at 2:15.

less0305
03-24-2011, 01:01 PM
Hummmm, it might just be me, but I would think if I saw someone wearing a black desk it would stand out in my memory. :crazy: :innocent:

I'm ashamed to admit this, but I always worried that my kids would become missing and they would say, "What was she wearing?" - and I'd stand there with the dumbest look on my face. I wouldn't have a clue 99.9% of the time. I just don't retain that info. Heck, I can't remember what I wore to work yesterday!!! I put every thing in the laundry as soon as it comes off because if I didn't, there would be better than a slim chance I'd wear the same outfit two days in a row. I almost give a pass to BC on this one (even tho I'm sure he had a sneaky reason for saying black when it was really green print) because I'm so darn bad at this same thing.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 01:07 PM
I find it telling that he said, with great confidence, that Nancy was wearing a 'blue' sundress to JA Young, but showed up at DD's front door asking for her help to located the 'black' dress. VERY.TELLING.

luckyme
03-24-2011, 01:11 PM
Are we done with computer stuff?

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 01:13 PM
I find it telling that he said, with great confidence, that Nancy was wearing a 'blue' sundress to JA Young, but showed up at DD's front door asking for her help to located the 'black' dress. VERY.TELLING.

I feel like he may have shown up at the Duncans and asked for help finding the dress NC wore that night and DD said the dress wasn't blue it was black when they were in the house. As she remembered it the dress was black so she said he asked to find the black dress.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 01:14 PM
I feel like he may have shown up at the Duncans and asked for help finding the dress NC wore that night and DD said the dress wasn't blue it was black when they were in the house. As she remembered it the dress was black so she said he asked to find the black dress.

But that wasn't her testimony.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 01:14 PM
I find it telling that he said, with great confidence, that Nancy was wearing a 'blue' sundress to JA Young, but showed up at DD's front door asking for her help to located the 'black' dress. VERY.TELLING.

There were two things that struck me as odd. The dress she wore the night before was one. I would have expected something more like what ncsu95 said about his abilities. I would expect most husbands to say, "I have no idea what she was wearing." For him to state it with such certainty no matter what color and with the details of exactly what straps seems odd, out of the ordinary. The other was when the detective asked for the running shoes she normally wore. You would expect something like, "Well she went running so she's wearing them." I don't know. That whole initial encounter just seems strange to me.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 01:15 PM
But is what JY testified to. I'll need to listen to it again. But it sounded like the conversation he heard was BC saying he was looking for the blue dress and DD said no it wasn't blue it was black.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 01:15 PM
Are we done with computer stuff?

Only for right now. It was the FBI that actually analyzed the computers and they haven't testified yet.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 01:17 PM
But is what JY testified to.

JY didn't accompany Brad when he went over to DD's house, so JY has no idea what Brad said and until DD showed up in the BR he had no idea what DD had said.

gorealtors
03-24-2011, 01:17 PM
Did JY say that Brad told him Nancy's dress was blue with "little" blue straps???

BrownRice
03-24-2011, 01:17 PM
I find it telling that he said, with great confidence, that Nancy was wearing a 'blue' sundress to JA Young, but showed up at DD's front door asking for her help to located the 'black' dress. VERY.TELLING.

Very telling in what way?

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 01:19 PM
Did JY say that Brad told him Nancy's dress was blue with "little" blue straps???

He said it was a blue knee length summer dress with thin straps across the shoulders.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 01:19 PM
Very telling in what way?

Ummm...trying to mislead so the dress was not located right then.

And yes, Brad did say the dress had 'thin straps.' What guy would remember this kind of detail???

BrownRice
03-24-2011, 01:22 PM
Ummm...trying to mislead so the dress was not located right then.

And yes, Brad did say the dress had 'thin straps.' What guy would remember this kind of detail???

I'm not understanding. BC said the dress was blue (I'd say close enough for a man) and DD said it was black. BC was correct, DD was not.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 01:23 PM
I just find it hard to believe that Brad said to Diana Duncan "the dress was black" and from that point on Diana Duncan went along with the black dress story and at no time when looking for the dress with CPD present did she say "no I think the dress may have been green" or even "I really don't remember what she had on"

I mean if Brad has the ability to completely change her recollection simply by saying "black dress" he has mastered the jedi mind trick and anything is possible.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

gorealtors
03-24-2011, 01:24 PM
Ummm...trying to mislead so the dress was not located right then.

And yes, Brad did say the dress had 'thin straps.' What guy would remember this kind of detail???


Well, the actual dress did NOT have thin straps from what I could observe. So this was yet another tip from Brad to mislead the person searching for THE dress.

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 01:27 PM
The dress was a tank dress wasn't it? I mean thin straps is closer than say sleeveless or short sleeves. I agree it was misinterpreted as spaghetti type straps but I wouldn't say it was that far off of a description.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm going by testimony. DD was not impeached on this item. The defense could have attempted or gotten her to say "well I don't remember what I said," but that didn't happen. Her testimony was emphatic as to what he said. I have no reason to question it because it doesn't jive with some preconceived notion of women remembering fashion details better than men and therefore DD HAD to have remembered.

She said what she said during testimony. I base it on that.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 01:30 PM
The dress was a tank dress wasn't it? I mean thin straps is closer than say sleeveless or short sleeves. I agree it was misinterpreted as spaghetti type straps but I wouldn't say it was that far off of a description.

I'm pretty sure it had what I would call cap sleeves.

gorealtors
03-24-2011, 01:30 PM
I looked at a pic on WRAL of DD holding up that dress and the view of the bodice from the rear didn't indicate any sort of strap, thin or thick. I think he described a dress that was totally unlike THE dress to both JY and DD so it would not be discovered that day.

cygnusx1
03-24-2011, 01:32 PM
You assume mislead. I assume unobservant.

My wife told me several days prior that she was getting her hair cut. On the day she got it cut I came and noticed something was different about her, but I couldn't place it. It was even a new style. She noticed me looking at her like I could tell something had changed. Finally she gave up and said "Yes, I got my hair cut!"

D'oh!

less0305
03-24-2011, 01:34 PM
Only for right now. It was the FBI that actually analyzed the computers and they haven't testified yet.

So has Kurtz made any insinuations that the FBI planted evidence or mishandled the computers while in their custody? Do you think he will?

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 01:36 PM
So has Kurtz made any insinuations that the FBI planted evidence or mishandled the computers while in their custody? Do you think he will?

He has made those insinuations with the two witnesses prior to the witness on the stand now.

carolinalady
03-24-2011, 01:42 PM
There were two things that struck me as odd. The dress she wore the night before was one. I would have expected something more like what ncsu95 said about his abilities. I would expect most husbands to say, "I have no idea what she was wearing." For him to state it with such certainty no matter what color and with the details of exactly what straps seems odd, out of the ordinary. The other was when the detective asked for the running shoes she normally wore. You would expect something like, "Well she went running so she's wearing them." I don't know. That whole initial encounter just seems strange to me.

Serious runners can go through running shoes pretty quickly. Mine tend to become my "running errand shoes" when I've replaced them with a new pair.

I haven't heard this morning's testimony yet. Did JY say he asked for the pair she normally wore or did he ask for her running shoes?

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 01:45 PM
Serious runners can go through running shoes pretty quickly. Mine tend to become my "running errand shoes" when I've replaced them with a new pair.

I haven't heard this morning's testimony yet. Did JY say he asked for the pair she normally wore or did he ask for her running shoes?

What he said is that he asked what shoes Nancy normally wore and Brad described them as light blue. They went to the laundry room shoe rack and Brad gave him the right shoe from a pair. (They kept emphasizing right shoe so I'm guessing this is where "the pair of two left shoes" comes from.) Once they were done, the detective handed the shoe back to Brad.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 01:52 PM
There were two things that struck me as odd. The dress she wore the night before was one. I would have expected something more like what ncsu95 said about his abilities. I would expect most husbands to say, "I have no idea what she was wearing." For him to state it with such certainty no matter what color and with the details of exactly what straps seems odd, out of the ordinary. The other was when the detective asked for the running shoes she normally wore. You would expect something like, "Well she went running so she's wearing them." I don't know. That whole initial encounter just seems strange to me.

By the way, I went downstairs to see what my wife was wearing. It's a teal green print top. I had to laugh at the irony.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 01:53 PM
Ummm...trying to mislead so the dress was not located right then.

And yes, Brad did say the dress had 'thin straps.' What guy would remember this kind of detail???

What would be the purpose in that? If he was going to wash it to get rid of evidence, he would have already done so at that point.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 01:55 PM
I just find it hard to believe that Brad said to Diana Duncan "the dress was black" and from that point on Diana Duncan went along with the black dress story and at no time when looking for the dress with CPD present did she say "no I think the dress may have been green" or even "I really don't remember what she had on"

I mean if Brad has the ability to completely change her recollection simply by saying "black dress" he has mastered the jedi mind trick and anything is possible.

It just doesn't make sense to me.

Now that's funny. I'm picture him waiving his hand like Obi-wan saying "it was black"...then DD gets this glazed look in her eyes and says "it was black".

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 01:56 PM
Well, the actual dress did NOT have thin straps from what I could observe. So this was yet another tip from Brad to mislead the person searching for THE dress.

Or maybe he was guessing at what he thought she wore. Maybe she wore that dress the day before.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 01:58 PM
I looked at a pic on WRAL of DD holding up that dress and the view of the bodice from the rear didn't indicate any sort of strap, thin or thick. I think he described a dress that was totally unlike THE dress to both JY and DD so it would not be discovered that day.

Again, what would be the purpose in hiding it? If he knew...and he washed it...go get the dress and say it was washed with the rest of the laundry this morning.

per_curiam
03-24-2011, 02:01 PM
I'm not understanding. BC said the dress was blue (I'd say close enough for a man) and DD said it was black. BC was correct, DD was not.

Possibilities: DD misunderstood the question (though I don't see how).

DD was one of the big drinkers in the group. Maybe she drank so much she didn't remember, but I'd still think women remember what other women wear to parties they were attending, esp. DD/Nancy, living across the street from one another.

Maybe DD was so shocked by the situation she just couldn't think clearly.

I WOULD HAVE POLLED THE OTHERS WHO WERE AT THE PARTY, but that's how I work as a big city message board cop. LOL

Didn't the friends usually take a camera to the parties? There was plenty of that going on in most other functions that some of us saw..

SleuthinNC
03-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Ugh I have to run out to do some stuff. I hate missing testimony. Keep us posted folks!

gracielee
03-24-2011, 02:20 PM
I feel like he may have shown up at the Duncans and asked for help finding the dress NC wore that night and DD said the dress wasn't blue it was black when they were in the house. As she remembered it the dress was black so she said he asked to find the black dress.

Her testimony was that Brad specified the dress they were searching for was 'black'. IIRC, CD questioned it wasn't black, and again IIRC, DD said she later called a friend of their's and was told again the dress nancy wore was NOT black.

mlc2005
03-24-2011, 02:22 PM
Wow, I was just reading this thread and for six whole pages the discussion is about the color of the dress. What is telling is how little evidence (none really) that the prosecution has presented that something like dress color would be the highlight thus far.

I've been watching it all like you guys. Am I the only one who thinks, thus far, the prosecution's case is laughable. I'm wondering how this made it passed a grand jury honestly.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 02:27 PM
Ummm...trying to mislead so the dress was not located right then.

And yes, Brad did say the dress had 'thin straps.' What guy would remember this kind of detail???

The same guy who 'remembers' the black & red sports bra, but nothing else? :fence:

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 02:33 PM
Brad drove into the right side of garage on 7-13.
Walked around to front door....odd he didnt go in from garage

KellyCrash
03-24-2011, 02:36 PM
Det. Young is saying he's observed Brad pulling into the garage & getting out with Bella. They go in the front door of the residence. He does the same thing when bringing in the groceries. Front garage to front door at least 2 more times. Why didn't he go in through the door in the garage? Weird. This happened while Nancy was still considered missing.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 02:40 PM
Darn, I had to step out again. What did I miss? Heard something about Nancy not going to counseling with him......

per_curiam
03-24-2011, 02:41 PM
Remember the ME's report (autopsy)? Very faint line across the fractured hyoid area?

We've discussed this before, but maybe whoever strangled her pulled her necklace that made the line, or something from her dress made that line while being strangled. OR, they could have been fighting, he wanted her necklace, so he jerked it off her neck. I'll stop now.

I think the sports bra was just put on her by her strangler (in my mind, BC) before he dumped her.

Shows you where I am. I just got back. They were recessing when I left.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 02:42 PM
Brad tells CPD on the morning of 7/12 he went to HT between 5:30am - 6am.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Brad says he watched Katie while Nancy washed clothes.

Brad said Nancy told them they were out of laundry detergent.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 02:44 PM
Brad said he returned to HT between 6am and 6:30am to get detergent & green juice.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 02:44 PM
So BC told the police that Nancy was doing the laundry that morning.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 02:45 PM
Brad claimed Nancy yelled upstairs asking for a sports bra.

Brad claims he told Nancy to check the banister where they dried clothes.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 02:46 PM
Brad told the police he was guessing about what she was wearing based on her favorite tops.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 02:48 PM
Brad said between 9am to 2-3pm he did chores (laundry, cleaning floors, etc). ADA confirmed Brad claimed 5 - 6 hrs of housework.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 02:53 PM
Interesting he volunteered google searches ....as if to say that was routine.

SleuthyGal
03-24-2011, 02:59 PM
Brad said he washed Nancy's dress, but had earlier claimed that Nancy was doing laundry first thing that morning.

caryresident
03-24-2011, 03:08 PM
What does the bear painting have to do with anything?

luckyme
03-24-2011, 03:09 PM
What does the bear painting have to do with anything?

I dont know but it cost 9 grand. yikes!

caryresident
03-24-2011, 03:10 PM
I dont know but it cost 9 grand. yikes!

Wow. Self-portrait.

Wyn
03-24-2011, 03:13 PM
Brad said between 9am to 2-3pm he did chores (laundry, cleaning floors, etc). ADA confirmed Brad claimed 5 - 6 hrs of housework.

No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning. Especially considering their contentious relationship. Whatever evidence there was of NC's murder was erased that during that time.

luckyme
03-24-2011, 03:15 PM
I have to go! I can imagine the cross!

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 03:16 PM
No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning. Especially considering their contentious relationship. Whatever evidence there was of NC's murder was erased that during that time.

You are simply wrong.

Wyn
03-24-2011, 03:20 PM
You are simply wrong.

Newly married, maybe. Wife has health issues, maybe. Wife wants to leave and take both children, never. Unless he's whipped, and if he was, he wouldn't be limiting the cash Nancy could obtain and hiding passports. She'd be the one controlling the finances and would have been gone.

caryresident
03-24-2011, 03:22 PM
What are they doing now with the map?

caryresident
03-24-2011, 03:23 PM
Another break

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 03:25 PM
What are they doing now with the map?

The witness is explaining where Lochmere Lake, Harris Teeter, and Lifetime Fitness are (where BC said he looked for Nancy) and naming the other surrounding roads.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 03:25 PM
Newly married, maybe. Wife has health issues, maybe. Wife wants to leave and take both children, never. Unless he's whipped, and if he was, he wouldn't be limiting the cash Nancy could obtain and hiding passports. She'd be the one controlling the finances and would have been gone.

Again, you're generalizations are wrong. I've been married 10 years. Wife is stay at home, homeschooling mom (8 year old and 2 year old). I've spent many a Saturday morning (and all day Saturday) cleaning or doing housework. She simply can't keep up with it with her mom duties.

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 03:25 PM
I'm pretty sure that in Brad's deposition he stated that Nancy yelled upstairs asking if he knew where a particular t-shirt was and then yelled back saying nevermind that she had found it. Am I remembering that correctly?

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 03:26 PM
No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning. Especially considering their contentious relationship. Whatever evidence there was of NC's murder was erased that during that time.

I would have to disagree. My husband is the type who always has to be doing something. He does all the floors on the weekends, all the vacuuming (I mop the hardwood). He also does a lot of his laundry from his business travel that he does at least every other week. Then he usually moves outside and does lawn work and anything else that needs done around here. Then he takes one or both kids somewhere to run errands or to do something fun. I think it's just his personality. He is very rarely lounging around.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 03:26 PM
Again, you're generalizations are wrong. I've been married 10 years. Wife is stay at home, homeschooling mom (8 year old and 2 year old). I've spent many a Saturday morning (and all day Saturday) cleaning or doing housework. She simply can't keep up with it with her mom duties.

Well, by all accounts it is spot on for Brad.

less0305
03-24-2011, 03:28 PM
Daggone it!!! I have missed a good part of the afternoon!! Work is getting in the way of my courtroom observations.

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that in Brad's deposition he stated that Nancy yelled upstairs asking if he knew where a particular t-shirt was and then yelled back saying nevermind that she had found it. Am I remembering that correctly?

I do remember the "nevermind" but not the "I found it."

Wyn
03-24-2011, 03:30 PM
Again, you're generalizations are wrong. I've been married 10 years. Wife is stay at home, homeschooling mom (8 year old and 2 year old). I've spent many a Saturday morning (and all day Saturday) cleaning or doing housework. She simply can't keep up with it with her mom duties.

So you love your wife? She isn't planning to leave you and take the two kids? Isn't telling the neighbors how much she hates you? I still don't believe Brad would do that much housework on a Saturday morning without doing it to conceal some sort of evidence of Nancy's murder.

less0305
03-24-2011, 03:31 PM
No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning. Especially considering their contentious relationship. Whatever evidence there was of NC's murder was erased that during that time.

AND tend to two small children - :floorlaugh:

Cheyenne130
03-24-2011, 03:31 PM
I had to leave for awhile myself and missed part of this afternoon's testimony but I see that WRAL has an article up and the picture in the video piece is of Det. Young holding up the dress so anyone that still wants to see what the sleeves look like, it's there.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 03:33 PM
I had to leave for awhile myself and missed part of this afternoon's testimony but I see that WRAL has an article up and the picture in the video piece is of Det. Young holding up the dress so anyone that still wants to see what the sleeves look like, it's there.

http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/nancycooper/2011/03/24/9324258/young-220x165.jpg

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:33 PM
Again, you're generalizations are wrong. I've been married 10 years. Wife is stay at home, homeschooling mom (8 year old and 2 year old). I've spent many a Saturday morning (and all day Saturday) cleaning or doing housework. She simply can't keep up with it with her mom duties.


I think you left out a crucial part of the sentence.

"No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning.*** Especially considering their contentious relationship."***

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 03:33 PM
Well, by all accounts it is spot on for Brad.

BC claimed to have thoroughly cleaned NC's car before the beach trip she took with the kids. If that's true, I think that makes his cleaning on a Saturday less suspicious. (although to me cleaning doesn't seem suspicious at all). I never heard anything about whether it was confirmed that NC's car was spotless but they probably should have looked at it since they're making a big deal out of the overly clean 325.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:35 PM
I would have to disagree. My husband is the type who always has to be doing something. He does all the floors on the weekends, all the vacuuming (I mop the hardwood). He also does a lot of his laundry from his business travel that he does at least every other week. Then he usually moves outside and does lawn work and anything else that needs done around here. Then he takes one or both kids somewhere to run errands or to do something fun. I think it's just his personality. He is very rarely lounging around.

But do you also have the 'especially contentious relationship'? The HATE modes and all? IMO that is a significant part of the equasion.

filesman
03-24-2011, 03:35 PM
Ok So I have just started following this case and watching this trial. I was listening today about the dress. Can someone explain the significance of this dress. I thought NC was found in jogging clothes??? Honestly I don't think my husband could tell what clothes he last saw me in this morning when he left for work. So I don't understand the big deal of BC getting the color of the dress wrong.

Just the Fax
03-24-2011, 03:36 PM
BC claimed to have thoroughly cleaned NC's car before the beach trip she took with the kids. If that's true, I think that makes his cleaning on a Saturday less suspicious. (although to me cleaning doesn't seem suspicious at all). I never heard anything about whether it was confirmed that NC's car was spotless but they probably should have looked at it since they're making a big deal out of the overly clean 325.

Cleaning the car for his kids, you mean?
The house was a pig pen when Nance returned from vacation.
What makes you think he would suddenly change his ways?

Coolmomof4
03-24-2011, 03:36 PM
http://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/specialreports/nancycooper/2011/03/24/9324258/young-220x165.jpg

Ok I am shocked. I guess I was giving these people the benefit of the doubt with the teal/black/green/blue dress. I thought the color must be pretty dark to have so many differing memories/opinions of the color.

This is flat out green or "light green" you can't even try to mistake that for any other color unless you are colorblind. How can so many people have gotten it wrong?

CrimeAddict
03-24-2011, 03:38 PM
I would have to disagree. My husband is the type who always has to be doing something. He does all the floors on the weekends, all the vacuuming (I mop the hardwood). He also does a lot of his laundry from his business travel that he does at least every other week. Then he usually moves outside and does lawn work and anything else that needs done around here. Then he takes one or both kids somewhere to run errands or to do something fun. I think it's just his personality. He is very rarely lounging around.

I like the sound of your husband, you are one lucky woman!

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:38 PM
I'm pretty sure that in Brad's deposition he stated that Nancy yelled upstairs asking if he knew where a particular t-shirt was and then yelled back saying nevermind that she had found it. Am I remembering that correctly?

Yes, and in that same vein, I'm guessing, if as has been mentioned, Brad & Nancy led a sexless life, I'm having a hard time believing Brad knew or cared what color bra's nancy owned. Now HM possibly, but Nancy, not buying it. :twocents:

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 03:41 PM
I think you left out a crucial part of the sentence.

"No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning.*** Especially considering their contentious relationship."***

I don't see the connection between the contentious relationship and doing housework. I have never looked at my husband's housework as something he is doing for me, to help me out. It's for us, the family, the household. If we happen to be arguing, he still does the same work. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as suspicious I guess, because it describes a typical weekend in my home.

I will say that he did neglect the backyard though. It looks like that deck has never been stained and the weeds, no grass, etc.

CrimeAddict
03-24-2011, 03:42 PM
Ok So I have just started following this case and watching this trial. I was listening today about the dress. Can someone explain the significance of this dress. I thought NC was found in jogging clothes??? Honestly I don't think my husband could tell what clothes he last saw me in this morning when he left for work. So I don't understand the big deal of BC getting the color of the dress wrong.

It was the dress that she was wearing (and maybe the last outfit she wore) the night before she went missing and came home from the neighborhood party next door. BC washed the dress and told others, including her friends to look for a black dress she was wearing to give it to CPD, it turns out that her dress was this one a Teal one. BC also said the reason he washed the dress was because when she got home there was a stain on it and so he washed it for her. Her friends testified earlier in the trial that there was never a spill or stain on that dress.

Hope that helps.

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 03:42 PM
I like the sound of your husband, you are one lucky woman!

Yes, I am....and he reminds me of that all.the.time.

lib's mom
03-24-2011, 03:43 PM
Don't forget, in Brad's depo with for custody almost 3 full months after he turned over THE dress, he said the dress was blue or....ORANGE.

Nancy's dress of many colors.

ncsu95
03-24-2011, 03:43 PM
Well, by all accounts it is spot on for Brad.

My respond had nothing to do with Brad. She said no man.

less0305
03-24-2011, 03:44 PM
I think you left out a crucial part of the sentence.

"No man who works full time, who has a wife that does not, is going to do that much housework on a Saturday morning.*** Especially considering their contentious relationship."***

And especially since he didn't clean one darn thing even for just HIMSELF while she was gone on vacay - when the mess would have been obviously less and he wouldn't have two small children to tend to at the same time. He didn't wash out a dish or throw away left over food - you know good and well he wouldn't have spent 5 to 6 hours cleaning after Nancy screwed up his tennis game that day had it not been for the unfortunate fact that he strangled her and HAD to clean up - and since it was a soft kill, I'm placing my money on the fact that trying to clean off cell phones and computers took up a great deal of that 5 to 6 hours. JMO

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:46 PM
I don't see the connection between the contentious relationship and doing housework. I have never looked at my husband's housework as something he is doing for me, to help me out. It's for us, the family, the household. If we happen to be arguing, he still does the same work. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as suspicious I guess, because it describes a typical weekend in my home.

I will say that he did neglect the backyard though. It looks like that deck has never been stained and the weeds, no grass, etc.

I think those of us who don't buy all the cleaning and such, simply believe things were so bad between Brad & Nancy that there is no way he did any of 'her chores'. He wouldn't even consider it being for anyone else but *her*. As you said, if he thought he was doing it for his 'kids', he'd have cleaned up the backyard/kids play area moreso than work inside the house IMO.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:48 PM
It was the dress that she was wearing (and maybe the last outfit she wore) the night before she went missing and came home from the neighborhood party next door. BC washed the dress and told others, including her friends to look for a black dress she was wearing to give it to CPD, it turns out that her dress was this one a Teal one. BC also said the reason he washed the dress was because when she got home there was a stain on it and so he washed it for her. Her friends testified earlier in the trial that there was never a spill or stain on that dress.

Hope that helps.

To add, possibly the clothes she was wearing when she died, the dress I mean.

filesman
03-24-2011, 03:49 PM
It was the dress that she was wearing (and maybe the last outfit she wore) the night before she went missing and came home from the neighborhood party next door. BC washed the dress and told others, including her friends to look for a black dress she was wearing to give it to CPD, it turns out that her dress was this one a Teal one. BC also said the reason he washed the dress was because when she got home there was a stain on it and so he washed it for her. Her friends testified earlier in the trial that there was never a spill or stain on that dress.

Hope that helps.

So he washed the dress - Wasn't it found over the laundry hamper ( i assume to be washed) I guess I need to read and catch up with the facts of the case.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:51 PM
Don't forget, in Brad's depo with for custody almost 3 full months after he turned over THE dress, he said the dress was blue or....ORANGE.

Nancy's dress of many colors.

No kidding. :crazy:

per_curiam
03-24-2011, 03:52 PM
I dont know but it cost 9 grand. yikes!

(I don't know what happened to the rest of this quote, but it was about the bear painting, and what did the bear painting have to do with anything?)

I remember something about the bear painting back in the early days of the murder. Someone help me. Something may have been said about Nancy knowing the artist and i think the artist was from Canada? I think there might be a relationship there somehow. I can't remember if Nancy had wanted to impress the artist by buying the piece. It's all fragmented in my memory, but I remember something to do with that painting!

If Nancy meant that as a graduation gift for Brad's NCSU accomplishments, wow. The painting suggests one's wild, untamed power. You are face to face with the life sized bear. That brings fear to me, respect for the power of nature, and happiness that it's only a painting, not reality.

I would never pay $9000, nor would I pay $900 for that. I would admire it if I liked it, and move on. I would not want to spend my meal time in the dining room with a huge wild bear standing up in my face. Bears smell terrible, by the way!

With that much money, I could have paid off some bills, put away for a rainy day. But that painting? I could see it in the student union of a college that has a bear mascot, or a veterinary school. Not at MY dining room table.

gracielee
03-24-2011, 03:53 PM
So he washed the dress - Wasn't it found over the laundry hamper ( i assume to be washed) I guess I need to read and catch up with the facts of the case.

Everyone searched for the dress in the first searches of the house. No one could locate it. Detective testified he looked in all laundry baskets, hampers, closets, bathrooms, etc., and never saw the dress.

filesman
03-24-2011, 03:56 PM
No kidding. :crazy:

I guess I feel BC not knowing the color of his wifes dress proves him guilty of being a man, no murder. I hope the DA has more evidence than this. I can't say my feelings on the case right now, I don't know all the facts. I guess I am disappointed that it's this far into trial and I don't think they have proven to me beyond a resonable doubt..

fran
03-24-2011, 03:58 PM
I don't see the connection between the contentious relationship and doing housework. I have never looked at my husband's housework as something he is doing for me, to help me out. It's for us, the family, the household. If we happen to be arguing, he still does the same work. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as suspicious I guess, because it describes a typical weekend in my home.

I will say that he did neglect the backyard though. It looks like that deck has never been stained and the weeds, no grass, etc.

I believe the point is, Brad said he cleaned the house before Nancy and the girls returned from their vacation. Yet, Nancy told everyone Brad NEVER did housework or laundry. That includes when Nancy and the girls returned home from HH, the dishes Nancy used the day she left, to feed breakfast to the kids, were STILL in the sink, dirty.

Then you have a guy who never does housework, by all accounts, and doesn't do laundry, cleaning the house like his mom is coming, scrubbing floors and all, and laundering every single dirty item in the house.....Oh, not to mention he claimed he didn't do all of Nancy's because they are 'delicate,' yet he washed the dress she wore the last night of her life.

Yep, I'm suspicious!

JMHO
fran

carolinalady
03-24-2011, 04:00 PM
So he washed the dress - Wasn't it found over the laundry hamper ( i assume to be washed) I guess I need to read and catch up with the facts of the case.


Everyone searched for the dress in the first searches of the house. No one could locate it. Detective testified he looked in all laundry baskets, hampers, closets, bathrooms, etc., and never saw the dress.

JY says the actual dress was on the laundry hamper, at the time, he didn't know it was the dress.


From WRAL.com http://www.wral.com/specialreports/nancycooper/story/9323935/

Young said Thursday that he actually noticed a teal dress folded over a laundry hamper while he was searching but didn't pay much attention to it. It appeared to him to be a woman's shirt because of the way it had been laid.

per_curiam
03-24-2011, 04:03 PM
I think those of us who don't buy all the cleaning and such, simply believe things were so bad between Brad & Nancy that there is no way he did any of 'her chores'. He wouldn't even consider it being for anyone else but *her*. As you said, if he thought he was doing it for his 'kids', he'd have cleaned up the backyard/kids play area moreso than work inside the house IMO.

Nancy is on record for saying that while Brad was living in the spare bedroom, he NEVER changed/washed his sheets, and they were heavily stained in yellowish stains. She also stated that there were little brown bugs in the mattress (sounds like bedbugs), which there is a recording where Nancy was telling this to her mom or sister on the phone, about that and how the rest of the house looked when she returned from vacation.

Remember after the murder, and Brad's mom came down to stay with him in the house? Remember that Brad and his mom were spotted at Cary JCPenney, buying sheets!

Remember when Amanda Lamb, of WRALTV went to Brad's door around that timie, at which time he had all the blinds pulled closed...and Brad came to the door looking sh**** in an old tshirt, jeans, unshaven and scruffy? This of course was just before he was arrested. He refused to talk to Amanda Lamb. He knew who she was.

Remember when it was mentioned that his car was usually a wreck inside, but suddenly it was cleaned out, except for one certain part, which of course I can't remember. It was said that normally he had old shirts or athletic things, lots of junk in his car. I am going on distant memory that was discussed on WS.

That house and garage was clutter central. Did you notice all the dust in Brad's home office computer cabinet (brown, wooden looking)? That's where he spent his home time either on his exercise bike or whatever, with the door shut. Sure was really dusty, and one of the kids had allergies. I mean dirty dusty. We saw photos right here when they were talking about where his computers were. Brad was not into clean.

sunshine05
03-24-2011, 04:03 PM
I believe the point is, Brad said he cleaned the house before Nancy and the girls returned from their vacation. Yet, Nancy told everyone Brad NEVER did housework or laundry. That includes when Nancy and the girls returned home from HH, the dishes Nancy used the day she left, to feed breakfast to the kids, were STILL in the sink, dirty.

Then you have a guy who never does housework, by all accounts, and doesn't do laundry, cleaning the house like his mom is coming, scrubbing floors and all, and laundering every single dirty item in the house.....Oh, not to mention he claimed he didn't do all of Nancy's because they are 'delicate,' yet he washed the dress she wore the last night of her life.

Yep, I'm suspicious!

JMHO
fran

Yeah, I get what you are saying. I guess I don't trust JA's reports of anything and most of this information came from her. In fact, is there anyone else who claimed he lived like a slob?

caryresident
03-24-2011, 04:04 PM
Shoes? Where are they goign with the shoes?