View Full Version : Brad Cooper April 1st Weekend
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 09:32 PM
I would really like to discuss the recent witnesses and those who are still to come. I thought that the witnesses today were interesting and the testimony seems to be painting a clearer picture. MOO
less0305
04-01-2011, 09:43 PM
I need to listen to the video tapes. I missed a whole bunch of today because it was end-of-the-month reports today. Work got in the way of my trial watching. I'm going to try to go listen to this morning's witnesses.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 09:53 PM
So do you think Brad knew about the area off Fielding Drive because he had driven back there looking at houses and lots? Why did the state ask the realtor about Toll Brothers builders, knowing they had that development? He confirmed he did not work with TB.
I missed most of the video, so I guess I missed the point? Seems that would have helped the state if he had been back there and knew the area.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 09:54 PM
The cross of the husband didn't really elicit much that I remember. The real estate agent was very interesting. I thought he provided a lot of information. Others thought the defense made him look bad at the end but I thought he explained his interactions with the PI very well. The defense continues to try and impeach the witnesses through their audio interviews with investigators but are not interpreting comments within the context they are made. The police officer on the stand offered some interesting insight but has yet to be crossed.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 09:57 PM
So do you think Brad knew about the area off Fielding Drive because he had driven back there looking at houses and lots? Why did the state ask the realtor about Toll Brothers builders, knowing they had that development? He confirmed he did not work with TB.
I missed most of the video, so I guess I missed the point? Seems that would have helped the state if he had been back there and knew the area.
That was very interesting to me. Cummings questioned him about that area and asked if they looked in that neighborhood. Real Estate agent said no. Not area of interest and out of price range. Then the defense came along and questioned him eliciting the exact same responses. No, they did not look in that area. So either the defense totally lost focus or any searches of that area do not exist.
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 10:00 PM
I need to listen to the video tapes. I missed a whole bunch of today because it was end-of-the-month reports today. Work got in the way of my trial watching. I'm going to try to go listen to this morning's witnesses.
I missed the entire day too.. boohoo. I am listening now. I may just watch the realtor though, I only have a couple hours and not sure I want to be up till 1am listening lol
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:04 PM
I missed the entire day too.. boohoo. I am listening now. I may just watch the realtor though, I only have a couple hours and not sure I want to be up till 1am listening lol
Definitely the realtor. The police officer noted straw grass on the mat inside the front door when he came on Tuesday, July 16th. He also heard BC on the phone saying something about "You're the older sister and you need to take care of your little sister" The officer noted he was upset. But the realtor had some communications that I believe are significant.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:06 PM
So it was the Nov of 2007 they were looking at lots.
I dislike Cummings. The guy needs to wake up and get with the program.
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 10:06 PM
Definitely the realtor. The police officer noted straw grass on the mat inside the front door when he came on Tuesday, July 16th. He also heard BC on the phone saying something about "You're the older sister and you need to take care of your little sister" The officer noted he was upset. But the realtor had some communications that I believe are significant.
Listening to Susan Crook now, based on what you guys said earlier today hers may be a good one to watch too. My husband gets home from work at 11pm, I try to watch as much as I can before he gets up and complains i neglect him
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:09 PM
Listening to Susan Crook now, based on what you guys said earlier today hers may be a good one to watch too. My husband gets home from work at 11pm, I try to watch as much as I can before he gets up and complains i neglect him
Sorry! You're right. I can't believe I forgot about her. Definitely a very good witness for the prosecution. Unlike other friends, her demeanor was the same for both prosecution and defense.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:11 PM
So it was the Nov of 2007 they were looking at lots.
I dislike Cummings. The guy needs to wake up and get with the program.
To be honest I think Zellinger is the only truly effective prosecution presenter. Fitzhugh words her questions very poorly and Cummings takes too long to get the question out. I like it when Zellinger gets up and he wasn't on tap for anyone today. He'll be back for Det. Daniels. (I HOPE!)
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:15 PM
Cummings had a senior moment when he had Dr. Butts on the stand.
Very poor performance.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:19 PM
Where was Mr Cupper?, Mr. Cummings asks.
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 10:27 PM
Where was Mr Cupper?, Mr. Cummings asks.
I wish we could tell them to keep Zellinger questioning for the rest of the trial. He is good.
SleuthSayer
04-01-2011, 10:30 PM
So do you think Brad knew about the area off Fielding Drive because he had driven back there looking at houses and lots? Why did the state ask the realtor about Toll Brothers builders, knowing they had that development? He confirmed he did not work with TB.
I missed most of the video, so I guess I missed the point? Seems that would have helped the state if he had been back there and knew the area.
I just read on the earlier thread speculation that this was asked by the prosecution to set up later computer evidence that they have that he searched that area (presumably in looking for a good dump site).
I guess that could be the case, but I'm puzzled how that would have worked. If I had a dead body in the house and my goal was to dump it somewhere that I wouldn't likely be seen but also somewhere not too far away since I had small kids sleeping in the house, I would look up my own address on Google Maps (or Mapquest, etc). I would then start dragging the map around looking for ideas of places that would fit my criteria.
So, in that case it would be my address that showed up in the browser history. There is no way that the map web site can save everywhere you drag the map too. Writing all of that to disk would: 1) fill up your hard drive, 2) make the map horrendously slow.
If I knew of some area that might fit the criteria (Fielding Dr in this case), I'm not sure what the point of searching that area would be. I don't need a map, I know where I'm going. I guess you could say that it was to look at Google satellite images to see whether there were houses there yet. But, surely Brad would be smart enough to know that you can trust the satellite images since they are often a year or two out of date.
Now, to me, it would be pretty suspicious if he did any Google Maps (or something similar) in the middle of the night. But, I'm not sure why he would have searched specifically for the dump site.
I suppose another possibility could be that he remembered having driven by a new Toll Brothers neighborhood, but didn't recall exactly where it was. So, then he went to the Toll Brothers website and looked for neighborhoods in the area to refresh his memory. That would be pretty suspicious as well.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:31 PM
I wish we could tell them to keep Zellinger questioning for the rest of the trial. He is good.
By the same token, the defense should stick with Trenkle. MOO
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:34 PM
I just read on the earlier thread speculation that this was asked by the prosecution to set up later computer evidence that they have that he searched that area (presumably in looking for a good dump site).
I guess that could be the case, but I'm puzzled how that would have worked. If I had a dead body in the house and my goal was to dump it somewhere that I wouldn't likely be seen but also somewhere not too far away since I had small kids sleeping in the house, I would look up my own address on Google Maps (or Mapquest, etc). I would then start dragging the map around looking for ideas of places that would fit my criteria.
So, in that case it would be my address that showed up in the browser history. There is no way that the map web site can save everywhere you drag the map too. Writing all of that to disk would: 1) fill up your hard drive, 2) make the map horrendously slow.
If I knew of some area that might fit the criteria (Fielding Dr in this case), I'm not sure what the point of searching that area would be. I don't need a map, I know where I'm going. I guess you could say that it was to look at Google satellite images to see whether there were houses there yet. But, surely Brad would be smart enough to know that you can trust the satellite images since they are often a year or two out of date.
Now, to me, it would be pretty suspicious if he did any Google Maps (or something similar) in the middle of the night. But, I'm not sure why he would have searched specifically for the dump site.
I suppose another possibility could be that he remembered having driven by a new Toll Brothers neighborhood, but didn't recall exactly where it was. So, then he went to the Toll Brothers website and looked for neighborhoods in the area to refresh his memory. That would be pretty suspicious as well.
Like I said. I don't think there is evidence of this search on the computer. My reasoning is that the defense asked almost the same questions as the prosecution and got the same responses. If they knew (and they have all the discovery) that there were searches of Fielding Drive on the computer, they would not have been emphasizing that.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:35 PM
So was this 'hay' in the foyer collected? I guess we'll find out Monday.
Kurtz will just say the detectives brought it in when they came in earlier.
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 10:35 PM
By the same token, the defense should stick with Trenkle. MOO
Oh ya.. he is a fighter.. seems to have a bit of a temper or at least sound like it though, may not going over well with the judge.. maybe they are leaning on him more lately because Kurtz really has upset the judge so many times.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:37 PM
Like I said. I don't think there is evidence of this search on the computer. My reasoning is that the defense asked almost the same questions as the prosecution and got the same responses. If they knew (and they have all the discovery) that there were searches of Fielding Drive on the computer, they would not have been emphasizing that.
But they both only emphasized he was not shown that subdivision in 2007.
They may still have evidence of a computer search on 7-12-08.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:40 PM
So was this 'hay' in the foyer collected? I guess we'll find out Monday.
Kurtz will just say the detectives brought it in when they came in earlier.
I have to believe it was but it hasn't been introduced. My guess is that it's coming in with Det. Daniels.
SleuthSayer
04-01-2011, 10:41 PM
Like I said. I don't think there is evidence of this search on the computer. My reasoning is that the defense asked almost the same questions as the prosecution and got the same responses. If they knew (and they have all the discovery) that there were searches of Fielding Drive on the computer, they would not have been emphasizing that.
Yeah, but if you look at the converse, why did the prosecution ask it if they knew that the answer was that they hadn't looked at houses in that area? That would seem to help the defense's case as it would eliminate one way that Brad would have been familiar with the area.
It seems like only a 'yes' answer helps the prosecution and only a 'no' answer helps the defense. So, I agree that it is puzzling that both of them emphasized the question when the answer could have only helped one of them.
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Because of being so involved with all of this do any of you think strangely now when you talk to people you know and aqaintences about you and your life that maybe some day they will be up there talking about you and what you said to them? I get these eerie feeling some times and just picture her life and how everyone describes it.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Someone pointed out the bug man looked just like Mr Drucker from Green Acres
:laugh:
http://images.tvrage.com/people_galleries/11/31351/6910.jpg
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:46 PM
Yeah, but if you look at the converse, why did the prosecution ask it if they knew that the answer was that they hadn't looked at houses in that area? That would seem to help the defense's case as it would eliminate one way that Brad would have been familiar with the area.
It seems like only a 'yes' answer helps the prosecution and only a 'no' answer helps the defense. So, I agree that both of them emphasized the question when the answer could have only helped one of them.
The prosecution has asked a lot of questions that went nowhere because they knew the defense would bring it up. (Think of all the questions followed up with, "And we found nothing".) I'm still out in limbo on this one until we find out what the computer evidence is. We only know that Det. Young stated that he knew BC was guilty because of evidence found by the FBI on the computer. I have to wait for the actual evidence but I can't believe he would just make that up.
Lori59
04-01-2011, 10:48 PM
I'm watching Dateline.....same defense. They decided the person was the suspect right away........ ignored other possible suspects and the police made mistakes in the investigation and with evidence. Defense 101.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:48 PM
Because of being so involved with all of this do any of you think strangely now when you talk to people you know and aqaintences about you and your life that maybe some day they will be up there talking about you and what you said to them? I get these eerie feeling some times and just picture her life and how everyone describes it.
I have the strange need to point out to everyone close to me my current bruises (I'm a klutz) just in case. It could look bad for my husband but none of them are because of him. Heck, half of them I don't even remember where they came from!
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 10:49 PM
Yea, the fielding drive question was probably to defuse the obvious question by Kurtz...that Brad had no prior knowledge of that isolated area. No 'gotcha' moment for Kurtz.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 10:50 PM
I'm watching Dateline.....same defense. They decided the person was the suspect right away........ ignored other possible suspects and the police made mistakes in the investigation and with evidence. Defense 101.
Let us know the outcome.
Lori59
04-01-2011, 10:58 PM
1st vote in jury room...4-8 not guilty. So then they looked more closely at who was this person(defendant).....hmmmm. Then they found the person guilty. Interesting. Said it wasn't one piece but so many things together.
I just read on the earlier thread speculation that this was asked by the prosecution to set up later computer evidence that they have that he searched that area (presumably in looking for a good dump site).
I guess that could be the case, but I'm puzzled how that would have worked. If I had a dead body in the house and my goal was to dump it somewhere that I wouldn't likely be seen but also somewhere not too far away since I had small kids sleeping in the house, I would look up my own address on Google Maps (or Mapquest, etc). I would then start dragging the map around looking for ideas of places that would fit my criteria.
So, in that case it would be my address that showed up in the browser history. There is no way that the map web site can save everywhere you drag the map too. Writing all of that to disk would: 1) fill up your hard drive, 2) make the map horrendously slow.
If I knew of some area that might fit the criteria (Fielding Dr in this case), I'm not sure what the point of searching that area would be. I don't need a map, I know where I'm going. I guess you could say that it was to look at Google satellite images to see whether there were houses there yet. But, surely Brad would be smart enough to know that you can trust the satellite images since they are often a year or two out of date.
Now, to me, it would be pretty suspicious if he did any Google Maps (or something similar) in the middle of the night. But, I'm not sure why he would have searched specifically for the dump site.
I suppose another possibility could be that he remembered having driven by a new Toll Brothers neighborhood, but didn't recall exactly where it was. So, then he went to the Toll Brothers website and looked for neighborhoods in the area to refresh his memory. That would be pretty suspicious as well.
Would it be awesome if we had access to satellite for 7/12/2008 ? Wow. Technology can show the print on a newspaper.
Just the Fax
04-01-2011, 11:00 PM
1st vote in jury room...4-8 not guilty. So then they looked more closely at who was this person(defendant).....hmmmm. Then they found the person guilty. Interesting. Said it wasn't one piece but so many things together.
I recorded that...off to watch.
Interesting 8 NG could be swayed.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:01 PM
1st vote in jury room...4-8 not guilty. So then they looked more closely at who was this person(defendant).....hmmmm. Then they found the person guilty. Interesting. Said it wasn't one piece but so many things together.
Interesting. Thanks for the update!
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:13 PM
I'm curious to know why BC offered up that he had been doing some Google searches.
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:17 PM
Im so enjoying this friendly thread!!!!!
All the snitty posters gone to bed??
Lori59
04-01-2011, 11:22 PM
I'm curious to know why BC offered up that he had been doing some Google searches.
Well, to quote my mom.....Guilty dogs bark first. ;) ;)
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:23 PM
Well, to quote my mom.....Guilty dogs bark first. ;) ;)
Right now for me the "She always ran wearing a red and black sports bra" is the biggest circumstantial evidence.
Albert
04-01-2011, 11:24 PM
I'm curious to know why BC offered up that he had been doing some Google searches.
google searches are incredibly common for everyone that I work with in technology field, rfc's are a very common search.
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:25 PM
google searches are incredibly common for everyone that I work with in technology field, rfc's are a very common search.
Oh, I know they're common... What's an rfc?
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:26 PM
Right now for me the "She always ran wearing a red and black sports bra" is the biggest circumstantial evidence.
Absolutely #1 for me as well!
Lori59
04-01-2011, 11:27 PM
Right now for me the "She always ran wearing a red and black sports bra" is the biggest circumstantial evidence.
That's a perfect example of what the quote means!!!
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 11:27 PM
Just Finished The terminator.. I mean exterminator guy.. I kinda felt bad for him, well, I feel bad for everyone having to get up there. He didn't seem to do much for either side.. but just the mess in the garage thing and how messy the house was pretty much for the last couple years..
I guess it also paints a picture of how she was never home, always out and about and no one really seemed to take care and clean that house.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:27 PM
google searches are incredibly common for everyone that I work with in technology field, rfc's are a very common search.
Most of my google searches are words that I want to make sure I spell correctly on this forum. (Former teacher, even though art, I HATE to make a spelling error!) I hope they never have to search my computer because the news stories will make me look REALLY weird!
Albert
04-01-2011, 11:28 PM
The thread for today's testimony has been closed, not sure why, but I did not get a chance to comment on Rosemary Zednick's affidavit. Comment #11, "She had brownish hair pulled back in a ponytail.." There is no mention of a ball cap, but don't we know that NC hair was not found in a ponytail?
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:30 PM
Just Finished The terminator.. I mean exterminator guy.. I kinda felt bad for him, well, I feel bad for everyone having to get up there. He didn't seem to do much for either side.. but just the mess in the garage thing and how messy the house was pretty much for the last couple years..
I guess it also paints a picture of how she was never home, always out and about and no one really seemed to take care and clean that house.
That and he knew that HM had an affair with JP. We have heard that, but so did the exterminator guy.
Albert
04-01-2011, 11:30 PM
Oh, I know they're common... What's an rfc?
copied from wikipedia...
In computer network engineering, a Request for Comments (RFC) is a memorandum published by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) describing methods, behaviors, research, or innovations applicable to the working of the Internet and Internet-connected systems.
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:30 PM
The thread for today's testimony has been closed, not sure why, but I did not get a chance to comment on Rosemary Zednick's affidavit. Comment #11, "She had brownish hair pulled back in a ponytail.." There is no mention of a ball cap, but don't we know that NC hair was not found in a ponytail?
Yes...and didn't the woman say the runner had on shoes, as well?
less0305
04-01-2011, 11:30 PM
Maybe I'm just tired, but why would the girls' passports be out laying on the foyer table the day the officer came to secure the home and wait for the search warrant? Why did BC have them out at that time?
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:31 PM
The thread for today's testimony has been closed, not sure why, but I did not get a chance to comment on Rosemary Zednick's affidavit. Comment #11, "She had brownish hair pulled back in a ponytail.." There is no mention of a ball cap, but don't we know that NC hair was not found in a ponytail?
We do know that her hair was not in a ponytail and no elastic band was collected with the body. Another piece of circumstantial evidence.
I'm curious to know why BC offered up that he had been doing some Google searches.
So they don't ask what he was doing on the computer. Beat them to it cause he knew they would ask, perhaps.
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:32 PM
copied from wikipedia...
In computer network engineering, a Request for Comments (RFC) is a memorandum published by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) describing methods, behaviors, research, or innovations applicable to the working of the Internet and Internet-connected systems.
Ah. Clear as mud. But thank you! :)
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 11:32 PM
True, true.. she really had a lot on her mind and blurted things out.. when I am stressed like that I do it too.. I tell people too much.. stuff they don't need to know.. so even tough people say she was a blabber mouth and stuff, I totally understand I like to talk too..
Listening to Realtor now.
jmflu
04-01-2011, 11:33 PM
So they don't ask what he was doing on the computer. Beat them to it cause he knew they would ask, perhaps.
Do you think that is a psychological trick? Because, surely, they will ask anyway!
Lori59
04-01-2011, 11:35 PM
I've always said that a person home tells a lot about their state in life....Nancy's home shouted : temporary, depressed, chaos, unhappy, and overwhelmed. It's not an insult to her, I think that is exactly what her state of mind was at that time. The home paints a sad picture.
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:35 PM
Maybe I'm just tired, but why would the girls' passports be out laying on the foyer table the day the officer came to secure the home and wait for the search warrant? Why did BC have them out at that time?
I believe that Brad had retrieved passports from his office during an earlier interview. He may have thrown them there after the interview. (It's not like he was worried about Nancy coming back and taking them.) MOO
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 11:38 PM
I've always said that a person home tells a lot about their state in life....Nancy's home shouted : temporary, depressed, chaos, unhappy, and overwhelmed. It's not an insult to her, I think that is exactly what her state of mind was at that time. The home paints a sad picture.
Breaks my heart. I know what you mean. When things are clean and organized I am happy and want my husband to be happy with laundry done and put away, clean floors, etc. This is very sad indeed. I think she was gone all day and then at night it sounds like she fed the girls, put them to bed and then she left while Brad just stayed home because he had to wake up early for work and wasn't very social anyways. I do a lot of cleaning at night when my boy goes to bed, so she could have but didn't want to stick around in that house with him :(
Cheyenne130
04-01-2011, 11:43 PM
Breaks my heart. I know what you mean. When things are clean and organized I am happy and want my husband to be happy with laundry done and put away, clean floors, etc. This is very sad indeed. I think she was gone all day and then at night it sounds like she fed the girls, put them to bed and then she left while Brad just stayed home because he had to wake up early for work and wasn't very social anyways. I do a lot of cleaning at night when my boy goes to bed, so she could have but didn't want to stick around in that house with him :(
Just for the record (in case anything happens to me) I'm a lousy housekeeper. I don't like dirty but clutter doesn't bother me. I do ALL the laundry but husband does all the grocery shopping. Fortunately for us we have adult children and they can attest to everything. (And youngest knows all my passwords so LE doesn't have to worry about deleting evidence.) And I have lots of bruises because of me.
less0305
04-01-2011, 11:44 PM
I believe that Brad had retrieved passports from his office during an earlier interview. He may have thrown them there after the interview. (It's not like he was worried about Nancy coming back and taking them.) MOO
Okay. Thanks. In my tired brain I was thinking he might have been getting ready to make a run for the border if things heated up for him.
Speaking of which... I'm going to take my tired brain to bed.
CrimeAddict
04-01-2011, 11:56 PM
Oh my.
BC spackled after she painted.. I would cry if someone did that to me.. or be really angry.
That realtor was really having no choice but to get involved with their drama.
He seems to be painting more of a picture about he being trapped.
Still have more to listen to...
Oh my.
BC spackled after she painted.. I would cry if someone did that to me.. or be really angry.
That realtor was really having no choice but to get involved with their drama.
He seems to be painting more of a picture about he being trapped.
Still have more to listen to...
I think passive aggressive behavior is the most toxic/damaging relationship trasher there is.
CrimeAddict
04-02-2011, 12:42 AM
I think passive aggressive behavior is the most toxic/damaging relationship trasher there is.
Maybe she died from vaseline on that wood staircase and slipped and fell and he just wanted to have her fall to get a quiet laugh to himself. I guess not, he would have said it was an accident.. hmm right!
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:51 AM
1st vote in jury room...4-8 not guilty. So then they looked more closely at who was this person(defendant).....hmmmm. Then they found the person guilty. Interesting. Said it wasn't one piece but so many things together.
After seeing, it reminded me of this case. An affair, absolutely zero hard, physical evidence tying him to the crime. The usual bad police work, rush to judgement, pressure to identify a suspect and solve quickly. It could have been druggies down the road or financial revenge. Same old drill defense attorneys use in many of these cases. Anyone could have done it but my client.
It was all the small pieces of CE that the 8 jurors that first voted NG, were able to reconcile. In the end, the jury just used common sense.
ncsu95
04-02-2011, 01:15 AM
Ah. Clear as mud. But thank you! :)
It's a set of standards that define how a protocol works. With VOIP, the primary protocol now is SIP. The RFCs tell you how to implement it. This is needed so systems can work with each other and with hardware such as phones. So you can take a SIP phone from 1 company and have it work with a server from another company.
uncfan
04-02-2011, 01:43 AM
Is BC's video taped deposition from the custody case admissible as evidence in this trial? If so, they haven't brought it out yet have they?
The exterminator is one of the most important witnesses to me, because he catches BC in a major lie concerning his actions the night of the killing. Brad said very clearly that he cleaned the car and the garage on June 28 when NC and the kids went to the beach. But the exterminator says it was still messy on July 8. BC also stated he was busy at work until Friday that week, so that just leaves Fri night for cleaning the garage.
LaLaw2000
04-02-2011, 02:08 AM
So do you think Brad knew about the area off Fielding Drive because he had driven back there looking at houses and lots? Why did the state ask the realtor about Toll Brothers builders, knowing they had that development? He confirmed he did not work with TB.
I missed most of the video, so I guess I missed the point? Seems that would have helped the state if he had been back there and knew the area.
The realtor did say that Nancy and Brad had also gone out looking on their own. It is certainly likely and possible that they did look at lots in the area of where Nancy was found. In my mind it is too coincidental that Nancy was found surrounded by empty lots for sale when they had been looking at lots together.
Now my other thoughts. Not addressed to you only, Just The Fax!
I just do not believe in coincidences where crimes and murders are concerned. I am one of those dreaded people who believe Brad to be guilty of murder. 1st degree murder!
I do not post much here, but do read every post. I just want to add that Nancy may have just seemed not to be afraid of Brad to her friends, but put her business out there just in case Brad did wind up hurting her. Well, she is dead now.
I would like to know who took the pic of Nancy in the teal green (with black designs) dress she wore to the party the night of July 11th. It's the pic shown in court where she is holding up her middle finger. The nail has a little black spot on it. Did Brad take this pic and was it the last one of Nancy? I was listening to the testimony that day and the ADA was talking about the two cameras found in the home. One was a Hello Kitty camera. The pic was very strange. Nancy's hair was mussed, and the background of the pic was dark. Does anyone know where I can find that pic online anywhere? TIA!
lib's mom
04-02-2011, 02:30 AM
Is BC's video taped deposition from the custody case admissible as evidence in this trial? If so, they haven't brought it out yet have they?
The exterminator is one of the most important witnesses to me, because he catches BC in a major lie concerning his actions the night of the killing. Brad said very clearly that he cleaned the car and the garage on June 28 when NC and the kids went to the beach. But the exterminator says it was still messy on July 8. BC also stated he was busy at work until Friday that week, so that just leaves Fri night for cleaning the garage.
His depostition is admissible, but it hasn't been introduced yet. Ms. Fitzhugh said in the prosecution opening it would be brought in.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 02:34 AM
I would like to know who took the pic of Nancy in the teal green (with black designs) dress she wore to the party the night of July 11th. It's the pic shown in court where she is holding up her middle finger. The nail has a little black spot on it.
That picture was taken within a few weeks of 7/11 (not sure the exact date). It was not taken by Brad. Don't know who took that picture. I will try to find out.
The point of the picture being shown was to impeach Brad's statements that Nancy had never worn that dress before. It was also shown to display her jewelry (diamond necklace worn as always, no wedding ring, sapphire ring/band on right hand only).
LaLaw2000
04-02-2011, 03:04 AM
That picture was taken within a few weeks of 7/11 (not sure the exact date). It was not taken by Brad. Don't know who took that picture. I will try to find out.
The point of the picture being shown was to impeach Brad's statements that Nancy had never worn that dress before. It was also shown to display her jewelry (diamond necklace worn as always, no wedding ring, sapphire ring/band on right hand only).
Oh, okay!
Tahnks so much, SleuthyGal! I really want to know about that pic!
kellyroll
04-02-2011, 06:56 AM
Is BC's video taped deposition from the custody case admissible as evidence in this trial? If so, they haven't brought it out yet have they?
The exterminator is one of the most important witnesses to me, because he catches BC in a major lie concerning his actions the night of the killing. Brad said very clearly that he cleaned the car and the garage on June 28 when NC and the kids went to the beach. But the exterminator says it was still messy on July 8. BC also stated he was busy at work until Friday that week, so that just leaves Fri night for cleaning the garage.
It's all relative though. One man's clean is another man's disaster. Maybe BC "cleans" like my husband does. :laugh:
CaryCanuck
04-02-2011, 07:35 AM
Right now for me the "She always ran wearing a red and black sports bra" is the biggest circumstantial evidence.
This.
It's huge. And so bizarre that Brad offered it up.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 08:21 AM
Is BC's video taped deposition from the custody case admissible as evidence in this trial? If so, they haven't brought it out yet have they?
The exterminator is one of the most important witnesses to me, because he catches BC in a major lie concerning his actions the night of the killing. Brad said very clearly that he cleaned the car and the garage on June 28 when NC and the kids went to the beach. But the exterminator says it was still messy on July 8. BC also stated he was busy at work until Friday that week, so that just leaves Fri night for cleaning the garage.
This was debated before. At this point, it seems clear they will not be using either the actual video or even his sworn statements to show his numerous lies. I assume not using the custody case deposition was a ruling or stipulation? Too bad, because showing his obvious lies and inconsistencies with his own image and voice would be very powerful for the jury. It would certainly tie a lot of this mubo-jumbo case together with a clearer picture.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 08:31 AM
LaLaw2000....thanks. Yesterdays testimony from the Realtor did show they were looking for lots in Nov 2007. Since it was close by, he could have easily driven back there at that time and discovered the undeveloped section off Fielding Drive. it could have popped into his brilliant mind on 7-12-08 as the perfect place to dump a body nearby. Not sure why Cummings didn't hammer this point by using the realtor....that it would have been quite feasible for Brad to have driven back there 11/07. I know it's a long shot, but maybe there is a google map search on 7-12-08? We do know Kurtz is scared sheetless about the computer evidence. If true, that would certainly be a good point for the state to rest their case.
NCEast
04-02-2011, 08:38 AM
I'm watching Dateline.....same defense. They decided the person was the suspect right away........ ignored other possible suspects and the police made mistakes in the investigation and with evidence. Defense 101.
I watched Dateline last night too and thought of this case! There was NO evidence at all--no fingerprints, no DNA, no footprints, no eyewitness, no nothing. When the jury began deliberations the straw vote was 8 not guilty, 4 guilty. After they sorted through the evidence and collected their thoughts, they ended up finding the man guilty. So many parallels with this case with respect to the lack of any evidence whatsoever. But as one juror stated, they started stacking the little bits and pieces of common sense issues and they added up....guilty.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 08:44 AM
What a sad picture. As recent as 11/07, this was a couple trying to work on their marriage.
They were looking for a new home to build in the $450K rage. In November, Brad bought her an expensive diamond necklace she picked out and would never take off.
Then the news of Brad's affair. It spiraled down the toilet from there, finally ending in her demise.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 08:47 AM
Probably not a coincidence that Dateline ran that episode this week.
less0305
04-02-2011, 09:17 AM
The realtor did say that Nancy and Brad had also gone out looking on their own. It is certainly likely and possible that they did look at lots in the area of where Nancy was found. In my mind it is too coincidental that Nancy was found surrounded by empty lots for sale when they had been looking at lots together.
Now my other thoughts. Not addressed to you only, Just The Fax!
I just do not believe in coincidences where crimes and murders are concerned. I am one of those dreaded people who believe Brad to be guilty of murder. 1st degree murder!
I do not post much here, but do read every post. I just want to add that Nancy may have just seemed not to be afraid of Brad to her friends, but put her business out there just in case Brad did wind up hurting her. Well, she is dead now.
I would like to know who took the pic of Nancy in the teal green (with black designs) dress she wore to the party the night of July 11th. It's the pic shown in court where she is holding up her middle finger. The nail has a little black spot on it. Did Brad take this pic and was it the last one of Nancy? I was listening to the testimony that day and the ADA was talking about the two cameras found in the home. One was a Hello Kitty camera. The pic was very strange. Nancy's hair was mussed, and the background of the pic was dark. Does anyone know where I can find that pic online anywhere? TIA!
BBM
I agree with you on the coincidence. I could stretch to give it one or even a couple coincidences without being so firm in my belief - but if you look at the coincidences in this case - there are just too many to get over. At least, I can't. I hope the 12 other important people can't either.
1. Rocky/bad/contentious marriage - yes, go to Canada and yet post- separation agreement draft - no, you can't go and take children
2. Pending separation/divorce/custody battle
3. Fighting all week over house condition and no allowance
4. Never withdrew the money for allowance
5. Told conflicting stories regarding why the money wasn't withdrawn
6. Spying on NC's email account
7. Removing NC from all banking accounts and possible funds
8. Removing passports from NC's car
9. Making lists that involve wills, insurance
10. Last person who KNOWS Nancy to see her alive was Brad
11. The circle of suspicion moves from the closest person in the circle out
12. Brad's two trips to HT that very morning before 7 a.m.
13. Brad offering up two different directions to the same store within 15 minutes of each other
14. Brad wearing two different pairs of shoes to the two store trips within 15 minutes of each other
15. Police never having found the first pair of shoes.
16. Nancy being found within 3 miles of the house
17. Nancy being found without a diamond necklace it is testified to that she never took off.
18. Said necklace found in dresser drawer of in room Brad and his mother used and not in the master bedroom drawers where Nancy slept.
19. Brad's odd and unusual cleaning and laundry spree the morning Nancy disappeared.
20. Brad not returning calls to his cell phone and voice mail when he was fully aware Nancy had not returned home and he himself admitted he had gotten worried and had gone out to look for her
21. Brad himself telling officers Nancy never ran from the house, but usually drove somewhere or had someone pick her up
22. Nancy's purse, cell phone, and keys left in Brad's possession when it was testified to that she never allowed him access to her things, particularly the car keys.
23. Brad somehow "guessing" the correct item of clothing found on Nancy's body when he claims to have not seen her leave the home that morning. The white tee-shirt he claims to have seen her in not found.
24. No undies, no shorts, no tank or tee, no socks, no shoes, no pony tail holder, and no hat found - ever.
25. Two left shoes found at the house - two right shoes missing and never found. (I may have that mixed up - too lazy to go back and look up - but either way two shoes of one side found and two shoes of the other missing)
26. Manner of death was strangulation, which would not leave blood in the home.
27. Nancy and Brad had looked at building lots. Nancy was found surrounded by building lots.
28. Brad claims to have cleaned garage week before and yet exterminator testified that it was just as cluttered as always and could not pull a car into garage.
29. Brad coincidentally spilled gas in his trunk a few weeks before, but chose that week to clean his trunk, but not the rest of his car.
30. Mix up on the dress color and turning over the last item Nancy wore immediately upon request.
31. Items missing from foyer that were there the day before.
32. Nancy calls realtor to find a place to live ASAP two days prior to her becoming missing. He sent Nancy emails with townhomes, condos, etc to look at.
33. Brad had red marks on his neck and a bandaid on his finger on Saturday.
34. Brad did not initiate the missing persons call
35. Although Brad's story was Nancy went for a jog - he did not place any calls to hospitals to determine if she had been injured or sick
36. Brad had at least one affair with Nancy's best friend (the ultimate betrayal) and Nancy believed there to be others
37. Brad did not place a call to Nancy's family to inform them Nancy was missing. He left that up to others.
38. Witness states garage door was wide open at 6:45 - unusual for the Cooper home.
And to negate all that so far we know that A woman saw someone running at 7:10 a.m. who she thinks was Nancy because she looked like the woman on the flyer. Brad suddenly wanted to be the good husband and clean the house and run errands from 4 a.m. on. Brad guessed at one item of clothing Nancy wore out of the house that morning based on what she always wore and by sheer luck he was right. BRAD claims Nancy called him at 6:40 while he was at HT - no one else heard her voice, no one else can attest that Nancy Cooper called BC. Brad was so busy running around looking for Nancy he couldn't/didn't answer his cell phone or call back a police officer. Brad was busy answering a myriad of questions from police and assisting in the search for Nancy he couldn't place a call to her parents. And Brad takes off his shoes at the door and possibly has some condition that makes him have to wear long sleeves, long pants, jacket zipped up to his chin and a ball cap when he goes to the store for milk at 6:30 on a July morning. And Brad was so helpful to Nancy that he stopped at Lowe's and made himself late for work to buy a drop cloth for Nancy for painting work he didn't even know about. Oh, and there was caffeine in her system.
Well, I'm just not satisfied.
Cheyenne130
04-02-2011, 09:17 AM
The other lie that really bothers me is him saying she spilled wine on the dress. I'm assuming he told the detectives that because he needed an excuse (in his mind) for washing the dress. All I know is if I was at a party across the street and spilled something on my dress I would run home and change before I would walk around all night with a big wet spot on my chest.
ncsu95
04-02-2011, 09:22 AM
His depostition is admissible, but it hasn't been introduced yet. Ms. Fitzhugh said in the prosecution opening it would be brought in.
I'm still not sure it will. I imagine if it is, the defense can use other portions to allow Brad to "testify" without taking the stand. That doesn't seem right.
NCEast
04-02-2011, 09:27 AM
BBM
I agree with you on the coincidence. I could stretch to give it one or even a couple coincidences without being so firm in my belief - but if you look at the coincidences in this case - there are just too many to get over. At least, I can't. I hope the 12 other important people can't either.
1. Rocky/bad/contentious marriage - yes, go to Canada and yet post- separation agreement draft - no, you can't go and take children
2. Pending separation/divorce/custody battle
3. Fighting all week over house condition and no allowance
4. Never withdrew the money for allowance
5. Told conflicting stories regarding why the money wasn't withdrawn
6. Spying on NC's email account
7. Removing NC from all banking accounts and possible funds
8. Removing passports from NC's car
9. Making lists that involve wills, insurance
10. Last person who KNOWS Nancy to see her alive was Brad
11. The circle of suspicion moves from the closest person in the circle out
12. Brad's two trips to HT that very morning before 7 a.m.
13. Brad offering up two different directions to the same store within 15 minutes of each other
14. Brad wearing two different pairs of shoes to the two store trips within 15 minutes of each other
15. Police never having found the first pair of shoes.
16. Nancy being found within 3 miles of the house
17. Nancy being found without a diamond necklace it is testified to that she never took off.
18. Said necklace found in dresser drawer of in room Brad and his mother used and not in the master bedroom drawers where Nancy slept.
19. Brad's odd and unusual cleaning and laundry spree the morning Nancy disappeared.
20. Brad not returning calls to his cell phone and voice mail when he was fully aware Nancy had not returned home and he himself admitted he had gotten worried and had gone out to look for her
21. Brad himself telling officers Nancy never ran from the house, but usually drove somewhere or had someone pick her up
22. Nancy's purse, cell phone, and keys left in Brad's possession when it was testified to that she never allowed him access to her things, particularly the car keys.
23. Brad somehow "guessing" the correct item of clothing found on Nancy's body when he claims to have not seen her leave the home that morning. The white tee-shirt he claims to have seen her in not found.
24. No undies, no shorts, no tank or tee, no socks, no shoes, no pony tail holder, and no hat found - ever.
25. Two left shoes found at the house - two right shoes missing and never found. (I may have that mixed up - too lazy to go back and look up - but either way two shoes of one side found and two shoes of the other missing)
26. Manner of death was strangulation, which would not leave blood in the home.
27. Nancy and Brad had looked at building lots. Nancy was found surrounded by building lots.
28. Brad claims to have cleaned garage week before and yet exterminator testified that it was just as cluttered as always and could not pull a car into garage.
29. Brad coincidentally spilled gas in his trunk a few weeks before, but chose that week to clean his trunk, but not the rest of his car.
30. Mix up on the dress color and turning over the last item Nancy wore immediately upon request.
31. Items missing from foyer that were there the day before.
32. Nancy calls realtor to find a place to live ASAP two days prior to her becoming missing. He sent Nancy emails with townhomes, condos, etc to look at.
33. Brad had red marks on his neck and a bandaid on his finger on Saturday.
34. Brad did not initiate the missing persons call
35. Although Brad's story was Nancy went for a jog - he did not place any calls to hospitals to determine if she had been injured or sick
36. Brad had at least one affair with Nancy's best friend (the ultimate betrayal) and Nancy believed there to be others
37. Brad did not place a call to Nancy's family to inform them Nancy was missing. He left that up to others.
38. Witness states garage door was wide open at 6:45 - unusual for the Cooper home.
And to negate all that so far we know that A woman saw someone running at 7:10 a.m. who she thinks was Nancy because she looked like the woman on the flyer. Brad suddenly wanted to be the good husband and clean the house and run errands from 4 a.m. on. Brad guessed at one item of clothing Nancy wore out of the house that morning based on what she always wore and by sheer luck he was right. BRAD claims Nancy called him at 6:40 while he was at HT - no one else heard her voice, no one else can attest that Nancy Cooper called BC. Brad was so busy running around looking for Nancy he couldn't/didn't answer his cell phone or call back a police officer. Brad was busy answering a myriad of questions from police and assisting in the search for Nancy he couldn't place a call to her parents. And Brad takes off his shoes at the door and possibly has some condition that makes him have to wear long sleeves, long pants, jacket zipped up to his chin and a ball cap when he goes to the store for milk at 6:30 on a July morning. And Brad was so helpful to Nancy that he stopped at Lowe's and made himself late for work to buy a drop cloth for Nancy for painting work he didn't even know about. Oh, and there was caffeine in her system.
Well, I'm just not satisfied.
Very well done! Sure hope the pros. sees this and gets an idea for their closing arguments.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 09:32 AM
His depostition is admissible, but it hasn't been introduced yet. Ms. Fitzhugh said in the prosecution opening it would be brought in.
It would have been a perfect way to illustrate a witness testimony. Cut to the video with Brad's response that is completely contradictory.
If they plan to use it, i wonder how and in what context? Brad was fully aware his statements could be used against him. I'm just very surprised the state has not even referred to them at all yet.
edit
Ms. Fitzhugh said "you will hear this deposition and you will see the string of inconsistencies"
Sounds like they will eventually be introduced as an exhibit into evidence and clips presented at one time.
Could be powerful evidence if done right.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 09:58 AM
I agree JTF.
Nothing more powerful than someone saying something Brad said and then showing Brad saying something different on video right then and there.
I won't pretend to understand the pros. strategy in how they are presenting this case, the order of the witnesses and all of that. Some witnesses are only available on certain dates, that I understand.
But the weaving back 'n forth between cell, friends, cops, back to cell phone, back to cops...it seems confusing and disjointed (to me). Is it chronological? I can't tell any more.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 10:05 AM
Less0305,
Bravo on that list! Seriously good stuff.
I too hope the prosecution sees it (or at least creates one of their own listing every single coinky dink befalling Brad).
BBM
I agree with you on the coincidence. I could stretch to give it one or even a couple coincidences without being so firm in my belief - but if you look at the coincidences in this case - there are just too many to get over. At least, I can't. I hope the 12 other important people can't either.
1. Rocky/bad/contentious marriage - yes, go to Canada and yet post- separation agreement draft - no, you can't go and take children
2. Pending separation/divorce/custody battle
3. Fighting all week over house condition and no allowance
4. Never withdrew the money for allowance
5. Told conflicting stories regarding why the money wasn't withdrawn
6. Spying on NC's email account
7. Removing NC from all banking accounts and possible funds
8. Removing passports from NC's car
9. Making lists that involve wills, insurance
10. Last person who KNOWS Nancy to see her alive was Brad
11. The circle of suspicion moves from the closest person in the circle out
12. Brad's two trips to HT that very morning before 7 a.m.
13. Brad offering up two different directions to the same store within 15 minutes of each other
14. Brad wearing two different pairs of shoes to the two store trips within 15 minutes of each other
15. Police never having found the first pair of shoes.
16. Nancy being found within 3 miles of the house
17. Nancy being found without a diamond necklace it is testified to that she never took off.
18. Said necklace found in dresser drawer of in room Brad and his mother used and not in the master bedroom drawers where Nancy slept.
19. Brad's odd and unusual cleaning and laundry spree the morning Nancy disappeared.
20. Brad not returning calls to his cell phone and voice mail when he was fully aware Nancy had not returned home and he himself admitted he had gotten worried and had gone out to look for her
21. Brad himself telling officers Nancy never ran from the house, but usually drove somewhere or had someone pick her up
22. Nancy's purse, cell phone, and keys left in Brad's possession when it was testified to that she never allowed him access to her things, particularly the car keys.
23. Brad somehow "guessing" the correct item of clothing found on Nancy's body when he claims to have not seen her leave the home that morning. The white tee-shirt he claims to have seen her in not found.
24. No undies, no shorts, no tank or tee, no socks, no shoes, no pony tail holder, and no hat found - ever.
25. Two left shoes found at the house - two right shoes missing and never found. (I may have that mixed up - too lazy to go back and look up - but either way two shoes of one side found and two shoes of the other missing)
26. Manner of death was strangulation, which would not leave blood in the home.
27. Nancy and Brad had looked at building lots. Nancy was found surrounded by building lots.
28. Brad claims to have cleaned garage week before and yet exterminator testified that it was just as cluttered as always and could not pull a car into garage.
29. Brad coincidentally spilled gas in his trunk a few weeks before, but chose that week to clean his trunk, but not the rest of his car.
30. Mix up on the dress color and turning over the last item Nancy wore immediately upon request.
31. Items missing from foyer that were there the day before.
32. Nancy calls realtor to find a place to live ASAP two days prior to her becoming missing. He sent Nancy emails with townhomes, condos, etc to look at.
33. Brad had red marks on his neck and a bandaid on his finger on Saturday.
34. Brad did not initiate the missing persons call
35. Although Brad's story was Nancy went for a jog - he did not place any calls to hospitals to determine if she had been injured or sick
36. Brad had at least one affair with Nancy's best friend (the ultimate betrayal) and Nancy believed there to be others
37. Brad did not place a call to Nancy's family to inform them Nancy was missing. He left that up to others.
38. Witness states garage door was wide open at 6:45 - unusual for the Cooper home.
And to negate all that so far we know that A woman saw someone running at 7:10 a.m. who she thinks was Nancy because she looked like the woman on the flyer. Brad suddenly wanted to be the good husband and clean the house and run errands from 4 a.m. on. Brad guessed at one item of clothing Nancy wore out of the house that morning based on what she always wore and by sheer luck he was right. BRAD claims Nancy called him at 6:40 while he was at HT - no one else heard her voice, no one else can attest that Nancy Cooper called BC. Brad was so busy running around looking for Nancy he couldn't/didn't answer his cell phone or call back a police officer. Brad was busy answering a myriad of questions from police and assisting in the search for Nancy he couldn't place a call to her parents. And Brad takes off his shoes at the door and possibly has some condition that makes him have to wear long sleeves, long pants, jacket zipped up to his chin and a ball cap when he goes to the store for milk at 6:30 on a July morning. And Brad was so helpful to Nancy that he stopped at Lowe's and made himself late for work to buy a drop cloth for Nancy for painting work he didn't even know about. Oh, and there was caffeine in her system.
Well, I'm just not satisfied.
Great list!! These are all the little specifics!! I think the prosecution has also shown through the various witnesses that Nancy was unhappy and had finally reached her breaking point. I guess Brad had reached his breaking point too...he just didn't talk about it.
cody100
04-02-2011, 10:52 AM
I believe the prosecution has far more serious issues with some of its own witnesses and credibility of the investigative work done in this case than the inconsistencies with Brad's statements. In addition, I would guess that the prosecution feels that the computer evidence is most important in this case. If Brad did kill Nancy, I hope there is more substantive evidence than what I have seen so far.
Cheyenne130
04-02-2011, 10:59 AM
I believe the prosecution has far more serious issues with some of its own witnesses and credibility of the investigative work done in this case than the inconsistencies with Brad's statements. In addition, I would guess that the prosecution feels that the computer evidence is most important in this case. If Brad did kill Nancy, I hope there is more substantive evidence than what I have seen so far.
I believe that Det. Young stated in cross that he believed there was evidence found by the FBI on the computer that proves that Brad killed Nancy. It remains to be seen but I think most of the posters here are anxiously awaiting the FBI computer forensics expert testimony. I know I am anyway.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm just glad the computer forensic expert if from the FBI vs SBI :thumb:
cody100
04-02-2011, 11:10 AM
Yes, Detective Young did state that. I will feel more comfortable when I hear that from the FBI computer forensic expert rather than Detective Young who also erased the information on Nancy's cell phone. I would be surprised if it were the big smoking gun or otherwise I would have thought that Brad would have accepted the second degree murder offer that I understand the prosecution offered. I guess we will have to wait and see what the FBI expert says.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 11:13 AM
Yes, Detective Young did state that. I will feel more comfortable when I hear that from the FBI computer forensic expert rather than Detective Young who also erased the information on Nancy's cell phone. I would be surprised if it were the big smoking gun or otherwise I would have thought that Brad would have accepted the second degree murder offer that I understand the prosecution offered. I guess we will have to wait and see what the FBI expert says.
You "understand" this how?
cody100
04-02-2011, 11:14 AM
Actually, the SBI has an excellent forensic computer division. However, the bad publicity surrounding the blood evidence reports from the 1990's and early 2000's is awfully fresh on everyone's mind. Of course, the FBI has had their share of bad publicity, maybe even more. In either case, I am glad this wasn't examined by CPD.
The realtor did say that Nancy and Brad had also gone out looking on their own. It is certainly likely and possible that they did look at lots in the area of where Nancy was found. In my mind it is too coincidental that Nancy was found surrounded by empty lots for sale when they had been looking at lots together.
Now my other thoughts. Not addressed to you only, Just The Fax!
I just do not believe in coincidences where crimes and murders are concerned. I am one of those dreaded people who believe Brad to be guilty of murder. 1st degree murder!
I do not post much here, but do read every post. I just want to add that Nancy may have just seemed not to be afraid of Brad to her friends, but put her business out there just in case Brad did wind up hurting her. Well, she is dead now.
I would like to know who took the pic of Nancy in the teal green (with black designs) dress she wore to the party the night of July 11th. It's the pic shown in court where she is holding up her middle finger. The nail has a little black spot on it. Did Brad take this pic and was it the last one of Nancy? I was listening to the testimony that day and the ADA was talking about the two cameras found in the home. One was a Hello Kitty camera. The pic was very strange. Nancy's hair was mussed, and the background of the pic was dark. Does anyone know where I can find that pic online anywhere? TIA!
Though I'm not 100% sure on this, the photo shown may have been taken on a date other than 7.11.
cody100
04-02-2011, 11:18 AM
You "understand" this how?
I read that somewhere. I will try to find that cite. Do you have information to the contrary?
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 11:31 AM
The erased blackeberry is weak for the defense if the jury listened carefully.
Sure, CPD screwed up, but Kurtz blew it way out of proportion, especially if you believe a van of Hispanics abducted and killed Nancy (though ridiculous, makes more sense than anyone she may have known, including JP)
The AT&T call records show exactly who she called or heard from, and when.
Even Barney Fife could track down her contacts and see who was a possible suspect.
Showing she preferred paper vs digital, Nancy kept a detailed, up to date paper address book that showed all her many contacts.
PLus - she had exactly 2 friends on FaceBook, proving she was not using this network and a cyber-stalker is a preposterous idea.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 11:33 AM
I read that somewhere. I will try to find that cite. Do you have information to the contrary?
If it was offered, and I doubt it was, it was not made public.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 11:37 AM
Reading the N&O article about yesterday's testimony, it kind of creeped me out reading this part about Gary the bug man:
If he was there to treat ants in the kitchen on the 1st floor, why would he have gone to the bedroom on the 2nd floor first? :waitasec:
<modsnip>.
<Modsnip>
Still, the point of his testimony was the mess in the garage 3 days before the murder.
I find him credible for that observation....note the defense didn't try to discredit him
NCEast
04-02-2011, 11:41 AM
Reading the N&O article about yesterday's testimony, it kind of creeped me out reading this part about Gary the bug man:
If he was there to treat ants in the kitchen on the 1st floor, why would he have gone to the bedroom on the 2nd floor first? :waitasec:
<modsnip>.
I am SO thankful to you all with the terrific memories. I wouldn't have known tidbits such as this and many more otherwise.
SleuthSayer
04-02-2011, 11:47 AM
" <modsnip>Still, the point of his testimony was the mess in the garage 3 days before the murder.
I find him credible for that observation....note the defense didn't try to discredit him
Yeah, my point was only that the whole bug man thing comes across as creepy to me. You can be creepy, but credible.
I use a pest control service. They come once a quarter and spray all through the house and at that time the guy goes through the bedrooms, etc. Part of the deal is that if you keep doing the quarterly service, they will come back and retreat at no cost if you have problems. I had ants in my kitchen last summer and called them. The guy came out and treated in and around the kitchen and put out a couple of those little traps near where he suspected that they were coming in. But, he never left the first floor. I don't know why he would have and don't know why Gary did in this case, particularly before treating the ant situation.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 11:53 AM
"<modsnip> Still, the point of his testimony was the mess in the garage 3 days before the murder.
I find him credible for that observation....note the defense didn't try to discredit him
The other point in his testimony was that the house appeared to be in the same condition as he had seen for the previous few years. Showing the NC came home to Brad's mess and house wide insect infestation with maggots, worms, etc. as another embellished story told to her friends to paint him in a negative light.
Why is it BC's inconsistencies are enough to put him behind bars and other inconsistencies should be overlooked completely?
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 11:54 AM
Yeah, my point was only that the whole bug man thing comes across as creepy to me. You can be creepy, but credible.
I use a pest control service. They come once a quarter and spray all through the house and at that time the guy goes through the bedrooms, etc. Part of the deal is that if you keep doing the quarterly service, they will come back and retreat at no cost if you have problems. I had ants in my kitchen last summer and called them. The guy came out and treated in and around the kitchen and put out a couple of those little traps near where he suspected that they were coming in. But, he never left the first floor. I don't know why he would have and don't know why Gary did in this case, particularly before treating the ant situation.
He treated the ants and performed the regularly quarterly service at the same time.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 11:55 AM
I think the link you posted says it all, SleuthSayer.
The dude had no business snooping around in their bedrooms to control an ant problem
Did they have bedbugs??? (you know Brad did...gag)
SleuthSayer
04-02-2011, 12:04 PM
I think the link you posted says it all, SleuthSayer.
The dude had no business snooping around in their bedrooms to control an ant problem
Did they have bedbugs??? (you know Brad did...gag)
<modsnip>
It's also worth pointing out that the whole way that he came to know the details about who slept with who seems pretty unprofessional. Apparently that was fallout from him telling Nancy about payment collection problems with Heather. Why would he do that? I don't expect professionals that do work for me to involve me in their business problems with my friends and if they did, I would just say "that's between you and him/her".
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:06 PM
The other point in his testimony was that the house appeared to be in the same condition as he had seen for the previous few years. Showing the NC came home to Brad's mess and house wide insect infestation with maggots, worms, etc. as another embellished story told to her friends to paint him in a negative light.
Why is it BC's inconsistencies are enough to put him behind bars and other inconsistencies should be overlooked completely?
He said there were clothes everywhere and the house was never "tidy".
I did not understand him to say there was an ongoing, regular infestation of maggots and worms, even when Nancy was there?
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:09 PM
He said there were clothes everywhere and the house was never "tidy".
I did not understand him to say there was an ongoing, regular infestation of maggots and worms, even when Nancy was there?
There were never any worms nor maggots found in the house. It was a story.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:13 PM
There were never any worms nor maggots found in the house. It was a story.
Sorry, I misread your post.
If he had food and dirty dishes piled up all over the kitchen as Nancy said, I have no doubt there was a major insect infestation. I doubt Nancy lied about this, nor do I think her friends lied on the stand.
cody100
04-02-2011, 12:14 PM
The other point in his testimony was that the house appeared to be in the same condition as he had seen for the previous few years. Showing the NC came home to Brad's mess and house wide insect infestation with maggots, worms, etc. as another embellished story told to her friends to paint him in a negative light.
Why is it BC's inconsistencies are enough to put him behind bars and other inconsistencies should be overlooked completely?
Actually, it was testified to that there were only ants in the kitchen. He went outside and found the source and sprayed them. I have had ants before and with a clean house. They do come into the house from outside. Now he did spray upstairs again but found no maggots, worms, etc. <modsnip> Yes, it would appear that this was embellished to her friends.
Cheyenne130
04-02-2011, 12:14 PM
I've actually done that (on white jeans) and raced home!!
Thing is red wine doesn't come out with ordinary detergent. I had to soak the jeans in bleach.
So, if she really had spilled red wine, there's a good possibility it would still be on the dress.
I waited and waited for them to say what type of wine she was drinking. (Not for any other reason than I am a wine drinker myself and found it interesting on a personal level.) I never did hear anyone specify red or white. Either way I would have wanted to put the dress in the sink to soak rather than just trying to spot clean it at the neighbors house.
Cheyenne130
04-02-2011, 12:17 PM
Actually, it was testified to that there were only ants in the kitchen. He went outside and found the source and sprayed them. I have had ants before and with a clean house. They do come into the house from outside. Now he did spray upstairs again but found no maggots, worms, etc.<modsnip>. Yes, it would appear that this was embellished to her friends.
I wouldn't say that. It is possible that there were maggots when she arrived home. It's also possible that she got rid of them without waiting for the exterminator so there would have been no maggots when he arrived.
cody100
04-02-2011, 12:18 PM
Sorry, I misread your post.
If he had food and dirty dishes piled up all over the kitchen as Nancy said, I have no doubt there was a major insect infestation. I doubt Nancy lied about this, nor do I think her friends lied on the stand.
There were only ants inside the house in the kitchen, and they came from outside source under some wood according to the exterminator. Refer to the exterminator's testimony. He sprayed outside source, and he found no other major insect infestation. Nancy's mother has said that her daughter did embellish stories.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Sorry, I misread your post.
If he had food and dirty dishes piled up all over the kitchen as Nancy said, I have no doubt there was a major insect infestation. I doubt Nancy lied about this, nor do I think her friends lied on the stand.
Again, spin it how you like. The exterminator said there was typically clothes strewn about and used dishes out and that is what he attributed to the ant infestation. All the exterminator found in the house was ants. The condition of the house was not out of the ordinary.
We should ignore his testimony because her friends who supposedly knew everything that went on with her testified that Nancy who was prone to embellishment said he did?
Never mind that they did not know the Coopers had money problems, did not know water was turned off due to non-payment on several occasions, did not know they used Tide detergent, did not know the house was regularly untidy, the list goes on and on.
cody100
04-02-2011, 12:25 PM
I wouldn't say that. It is possible that there were maggots when she arrived home. It's also possible that she got rid of them without waiting for the exterminator so there would have been no maggots when he arrived.
Well, I suppose anything is possible, but I would think most would wait for the exterminator to do that. I sure would. If I came home to maggots, I would leave and stay somewhere else until the exterminator came. So, again, it would be more believable that she embellished the story. Whether she did or not is not that important, and you are entitled to your opinion as I am inclined to believe the exterminator.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:26 PM
Sorry, I misread your post.
If he had food and dirty dishes piled up all over the kitchen as Nancy said, I have no doubt there was a major insect infestation. I doubt Nancy lied about this, nor do I think her friends lied on the stand.
There were only ants inside the house in the kitchen, and they came from outside source under some wood according to the exterminator. Refer to the exterminator's testimony. He sprayed outside source, and he found no other major insect infestation. Nancy's mother has said that her daughter did embellish stories.
Insects or not, I have no doubt Brad left old food and dirty dishes piled up in the kitchen. The point is, he was a slob and rarely did house cleaning, or even much yard work, for that matter.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 12:26 PM
<modsnip>
The whole point of that witness was to verify that the GARAGE was full and a car could not be pulled into the garage with it the way he saw it TWO DAYS before Nancy was murdered. This is after Brad said (and swore in testimony for his depo, as well as his own affidavit) that he cleaned out the garage so "Nancy could pull her car in upon coming home from vacation."
and...that was another lie from Brad.
As for the condition of the house...
It was not clean (per what Brad alleged and said in his depo).
Brad did NOT clean the house.
Nancy was very angry about the condition of the house when she returned from vacation. Nancy's anger at the condition of the house is not disputed. Not by Brad and not by her friends and not by her family.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:30 PM
Brad's priorities:
1- Brad
2- Cisco
3- Iron Man Events
4- His girls
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:32 PM
Insects or not, I have no doubt Brad left old food and dirty dishes piled up in the kitchen. The point is, he was a slob and rarely did house cleaning, or even much yard work, for that matter.
The counterpoint is, neither did she.
jilly
04-02-2011, 12:35 PM
I waited and waited for them to say what type of wine she was drinking. (Not for any other reason than I am a wine drinker myself and found it interesting on a personal level.) I never did hear anyone specify red or white. Either way I would have wanted to put the dress in the sink to soak rather than just trying to spot clean it at the neighbors house.
As I was clicking submit, I realized we didn't know if it was red or white. Probably considering my "personal level" on this because I drink red.:crazy: You're right though about not wanting to walk around with a wet spot - especially when she lived so close.
It was probably white. On another personal level interest:D - I sat up when I read she mixed quite a bit of wine and beer. I probably would have been sick.
Salem
04-02-2011, 12:36 PM
Let's stay on topic guys. You don't have to believe the witnesses, but you can't bash them or pull out dirt on them and post it here. They are not on trial.
The bashing in general also needs to stop. And remember, no naming of minors.
Thanks,
Salem
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:38 PM
The counterpoint is, neither did she.
<modsnip>
Why would Brad suddenly decide to go on a 5 hour cleaning spree, starting at the crack of dawn Saturday AM ?
He "washed" the hardwood floors , but said he didn't even touch the bathrooms?
Now that's odd?
In my house, that is the place that needs constant cleaning.
Just another little detail that doesn't quite add up.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 12:40 PM
One potentially very valid theory is that Nancy did get sick when she came home. And that she was also known to drink diet soda (diet coke) at night. Neither of these behaviors is impossible. Clearly Nancy did have a lot to drink that night and yes, she did mix wine and beer. Being sick after getting home would not be a far fetched scenario.
Alcohol would have also dulled her senses and reaction time, making her more vulnerable to an attack. Plus she would have gotten to sleep faster with alcohol in her system.
Good time for an angry estranged husband to take advantage of the situation and attack/strangle her. She was at her most vulnerable.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:46 PM
<modsnip>
Why would Brad suddenly decide to go on a 5 hour cleaning spree, starting at the crack of dawn Saturday AM ?
He "washed" the hardwood floors , but said he didn't even touch the bathrooms?
Now that's odd?
In my house, that is the place that needs constant cleaning.
Just another little detail that doesn't quite add up.
We know the answer to that from his deposition but since we are not supposed to believe anything that comes out of his mouth ever it's not even a debate worth pursuing.
My personal point is that there are enough issues that can be spun to support either side in this case that there is not enough evidence as presented yet to prove guilt even by a preponderance of the evidence let alone reasonable doubt.
Honestly if I were in the Brad did it camp I would be even more vocal about the prosecution doing a pretty poor job up to this point. it is not about winning or losing a debate on websleuths it is about justice for the victim and with the evidence they have and the way it has been presented thus far whether he did it or not it is not looking like the family will see justice. If he did it they need to prove it and if they didn't they have no other avenues to pursue.
Salem
04-02-2011, 12:47 PM
Please don't get snarky and start baiting each other. Discuss the evidence, the trial revelations and the happenings. Give each other room to disagree. It's okay - we don't all have to think the same. If you don't like what someone says and can not respond without being snarky - then move past it and just don't respond. That's okay too.
Salem
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:49 PM
I wonder what was in her last e-mails that Brad read Friday night?
Could have lit the fuse?
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 12:50 PM
Was Brad known to get up on Sat mornings and clean house? (no he wasn't). Yet on this morning, of all mornings, when his wife suddenly goes 'missing,' he is cleaning for up to 6 hrs. Who claimed that? BRAD.
Was Brad known to go to HT early Sat morning for grocery items? (no he was not). Yet on this morning, when his wife goes 'missing' he goes not once but twice between 6:15am and 6:45am. Brad expected Nancy to do the grocery shopping. You think he'd suddenly change that expectation? Oh and while Brad was out did he get Nancy the ONE THING she wanted/needed? Her 'allowance'? Nope. He was right by 3 ATMs.
Was Brad generally known to make and receive calls at 6am - 6:45am on Sat mornings? (no). Yet on this morning, of all mornings, when his wife suddenly goes 'missing,' he calls his voicemail 3 times early Sat morning, supposedly once to 'locate his phone,' and receives a phone call from Nancy at the very same time he placed himself at home. One of his phone calls pings off the cell tower closest to where Nancy's body was found.
Brad's actions/behaviors were not consistent for BRAD on Sat 7/12/08, the very same morning his wife is reported missing (not reported by him, btw).
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:51 PM
I wonder what was in her last e-mails that Brad read Friday night?
Could have lit the fuse?
Now THAT is an excellent question. If the emails he read pertained to her moving out quickly without his knowledge I could absolutely believe him going into a rage over her taking his kids away.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:53 PM
I also wonder if the realtor may have goofed and sent the email to him.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:54 PM
We know the answer to that from his deposition but since we are not supposed to believe anything that comes out of his mouth ever it's not even a debate worth pursuing.
My personal point is that there are enough issues that can be spun to support either side in this case that there is not enough evidence as presented yet to prove guilt even by a preponderance of the evidence let alone reasonable doubt.
Honestly if I were in the Brad did it camp I would be even more vocal about the prosecution doing a pretty poor job up to this point. it is not about winning or losing a debate on websleuths it is about justice for the victim and with the evidence they have and the way it has been presented thus far whether he did it or not it is not looking like the family will see justice. If he did it they need to prove it and if they didn't they have no other avenues to pursue.
I saw the deposition on cleaning and still don't understand why he chose to clean the hardwood floors and not even touch the bathrooms?
Could it be there was evidence of murder (body fluids) left on the hardwoods?
The state thinks so and I agree.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 12:58 PM
I saw the deposition on cleaning and still don't understand why he chose to clean the hardwood floors and not even touch the bathrooms?
Could it be there was evidence of murder (body fluids) left on the hardwoods?
The state thinks so and I agree.
Or could it be she was angry and complained about the playroom and dining room specifically so those were the areas he cleaned? I have not heard the prosecution reference presence of bodily fluids on the hardwoods in any testimony.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 12:58 PM
E-mails and websites seen by Kathleen Peterson the night of her death, likely sent Mike into a murderous rage. Though the opposite scenario, it could well be the case with Brad.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 12:58 PM
I waited and waited for them to say what type of wine she was drinking. (Not for any other reason than I am a wine drinker myself and found it interesting on a personal level.) I never did hear anyone specify red or white. Either way I would have wanted to put the dress in the sink to soak rather than just trying to spot clean it at the neighbors house.
I have never heard it said that she spilled wine, only that she got something on her dress and had to clean it off. Maybe it was the ribs? Not sure but food is consistent with what SBI found since it was an oily stain. I'm not sure why we are still talking about the stain on the dress? Or the dress at all for that matter. The dress was found in the hamper, SBI indicated there was no sign it was laundered, and the stain was consistent w/BC's comments about it.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:00 PM
Or could it be she was angry and complained about the playroom and dining room specifically so those were the areas he cleaned? I have not heard the prosecution reference presence of bodily fluids on the hardwoods in any testimony.
Me either.
Reasonable deduction based on their case, dontcha think?
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:01 PM
I think the prosecution would have had a much stronger case if they focused more on BC not wanting NC to take the kids. That would fill a LOT more holes for me.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 01:02 PM
One thing that I'm hung up on right now is the morning coffee. BC stated that he didn't remember seeing NC drinking coffee in the morning, didn't remember one way or another but he knows that he did not make her any coffee. He said it is the type of coffee maker that makes one cup at a time. It is odd to me to not remember your spouse drinking coffee, especially if that is a normal routine. That is bothering me a little after watching that section of the deposition.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:02 PM
I have never heard it said that she spilled wine, only that she got something on her dress and had to clean it off. Maybe it was the ribs? Not sure but food is consistent with what SBI found since it was an oily stain. I'm not sure why we are still talking about the stain on the dress? Or the dress at all for that matter. The dress was found in the hamper, SBI indicated there was no sign it was laundered, and the stain was consistent w/BC's comments about it.
Hmmm, then why did Brad say he washed it :waitasec:
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:02 PM
Me either.
Reasonable deduction based on their case, dontcha think?
No I don't.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:04 PM
BRAD said Nancy complained about spilling wine on her dress. This is a spill that no one else at the party saw and that Nancy never mentioned to anyone at the party.
Nancy was angry about the kitchen and the playroom having bugs, according to testimony from Nancy's friends and according to Brad's testimony on his deposition. BRAD spent a lot of time cleaning the front foyer and the stairs and the hardwood floors upstairs.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:05 PM
One thing that I'm hung up on right now is the morning coffee. BC stated that he didn't remember seeing NC drinking coffee in the morning, didn't remember one way or another but he knows that he did not make her any coffee. He said it is the type of coffee maker that makes one cup at a time. It is odd to me to not remember your spouse drinking coffee, especially if that is a normal routine. That is bothering me a little after watching that section of the deposition.
He claims to have been upstairs when she left so maybe she did maybe not. She could have had it when he was out shopping. Unfortunately it is another one of those places where more information would help a lot.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:08 PM
The day (nee the afternoon) of 7/11/08, decorative sticks are seen in the foyer floor vase, as usual. Decorative ducks (2) are on the foyer table.
Less than 24 hrs later the decorative sticks are gone, the 2 ducks are missing. Neither is ever found again.
On 7/12/08 at 6:23am Brad is seen wearing a pair of shoes into HT. Those shoes are never seen (and never found) again.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:08 PM
One thing that I'm hung up on right now is the morning coffee. BC stated that he didn't remember seeing NC drinking coffee in the morning, didn't remember one way or another but he knows that he did not make her any coffee. He said it is the type of coffee maker that makes one cup at a time. It is odd to me to not remember your spouse drinking coffee, especially if that is a normal routine. That is bothering me a little after watching that section of the deposition.
Glad you noticed that.
Just makes it more likely the caffeine trace in her system was from the previous day.
gracielee
04-02-2011, 01:08 PM
There were never any worms nor maggots found in the house. It was a story.
*If* the garbage hadn't been taken out for a full week, couldn't there have been maggots in the garbage? I don't know, we've never had garbage in the house for more than a day. There was a time when my husband set the closed garbage bag inside the closed garage, forgetting to take it out to the can until the next day. Probably raining or some reason he didn't take it all the way out to the can. It was summer, hot, closed garage, and the whole garage stunk to high heaven the next day.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 01:09 PM
Or could it be she was angry and complained about the playroom and dining room specifically so those were the areas he cleaned? I have not heard the prosecution reference presence of bodily fluids on the hardwoods in any testimony.
I just listened to that part of the dep. last night and he did say he cleaned the high traffic areas of the floor, the entrance, hallway, kitchen and said he did clean the bathroom floor. He did not clean the floors in the playroom or DR.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:09 PM
The day (nee the afternoon) of 7/11/08, decorative sticks are seen in the foyer floor vase, as usual. Decorative ducks (2) are on the foyer table.
Less than 24 hrs later the decorative sticks are gone, the 2 ducks are missing. Neither is ever found again.
Odd, ain't it?
Wonder if they are in the same landfill as his shoes:waitasec:
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:11 PM
Me either.
Reasonable deduction based on their case, dontcha think?
This is why Cummings tried (and failed) to get the ME to testify to whether she had vomited or not. He could not say either way, thus I don't see how the state can prove she actually did vomit. Because there was barely anything in her stomach, they have to stick with the fact that she vomited because that is the only explanation as to why her stomach was empty if she was killed shortly after she got home. I understand some here think it was closer to 4am, but that doesn't seem to be the prosecution's strategy.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:13 PM
Odd, ain't it?
Wonder if they are in the same landfill as his shoes:waitasec:
Well, is the going theory that she was killed in the foyer? How does that fit the 4am theory timeline?
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:14 PM
Thanks SG for pointing out the fact about the "wine" so we are not led down the wrong path. I do wonder if she drank red or white? If it was white wine, the stain story is even more ridiculous.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:14 PM
JTF,
Lots of 'odd' things were happening that morning. Behavioral inconsistencies for Brad are mounting.
Brad sure went to great trouble to throw things out that day, didn't he?
- The sticks
- The 2 decorative ducks
- His shoes
- His wife's mostly nude body
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:14 PM
Thanks SG for pointing out the fact about the "wine" so we are not led down the wrong path. I do wonder if she drank red or white? If it was white wine, the stain story is even more ridiculous.
I remember this testimony as WHITE wine, but I will have to research that to be 100% sure.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:14 PM
BRAD said Nancy complained about spilling wine on her dress. This is a spill that no one else at the party saw and that Nancy never mentioned to anyone at the party.
Nancy was angry about the kitchen and the playroom having bugs, according to testimony from Nancy's friends and according to Brad's testimony on his deposition. BRAD spent a lot of time cleaning the front foyer and the stairs and the hardwood floors upstairs.
The only thing I'll bring up about the bugs is according to the exterminator, she didn't tell him they were having bug issues, just ants. When he went in the house, all he saw was ants in the kitchen.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:15 PM
Thanks SG for pointing out the fact about the "wine" so we are not led down the wrong path. I do wonder if she drank red or white? If it was white wine, the stain story is even more ridiculous.
Well, there was reddish liquid in her stomach. I don't think that came from diet coke.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:16 PM
Well, is the going theory that she was killed in the foyer? How does that fit the 4am theory timeline?
Personally, I think a struggle started in her bedroom, she got away and before she could make it out the front door, he grabbed her in the foyer and strangled the life out of her.
I also wonder if the realtor may have goofed and sent the email to him.
I thought the realtor was going to send an email early the next week with some townhouses, apts. etc. But my understanding was he had not sent it...did I get this wrong?
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Speaking of the ducks and sticks.....can someone tell me again how we know those things were there the day before? Was it just JA's testimony? Because if that is all, I'm skeptical. She may have thought she saw them the day before but maybe it was really not that day. Maybe NC pitched them when she was packing up the house to move and to get it ready to sell. I can't think of how those items could have been used in a fight.
gracielee
04-02-2011, 01:17 PM
I wonder what was in her last e-mails that Brad read Friday night?
Could have lit the fuse?
I wondered if it had something to do with the realtor email/s. Perhaps the listings he forwarded to Nancy in her efforts to 'get out of the house ASAP.'
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Well, there was reddish liquid in her stomach. I don't think that came from diet coke.
ME never said, so I assume it was the result of decomposition.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Personally, I think a struggle started in her bedroom, she got away and before she could make it out the front door, he grabbed her in the foyer and strangled the life out of her.
Makes sense, but it doesn't explain why he cleaned the bathroom.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:18 PM
Brad's rather thorough cleaning of the floors is not to suggest that only vomit could be the issue (although that's one possible reason), but that after Nancy died in the house, her body voided from bladder and bowel, which is not an unexpected occurrence. Brad would not want body fluids to be found, now would he?
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 01:19 PM
BRAD said Nancy complained about spilling wine on her dress. This is a spill that no one else at the party saw and that Nancy never mentioned to anyone at the party.
Nancy was angry about the kitchen and the playroom having bugs, according to testimony from Nancy's friends and according to Brad's testimony on his deposition. BRAD spent a lot of time cleaning the front foyer and the stairs and the hardwood floors upstairs.
No, he said "something", he did not say wine. (from his deposition)
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:19 PM
Speaking of the ducks and sticks.....can someone tell me again how we know those things were there the day before? Was it just JA's testimony? Because if that is all, I'm skeptical. She may have thought she saw them the day before but maybe it was really not that day. Maybe NC pitched them when she was packing up the house to move and to get it ready to sell. I can't think of how those items could have been used in a fight.
I didn't think about that but you are correct. I'm surprised they didn't ask the exterminator about that (probably wouldn't have noticed). All we have is one person who claims they were there the day before.
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:19 PM
The only thing I'll bring up about the bugs is according to the exterminator, she didn't tell him they were having bug issues, just ants. When he went in the house, all he saw was ants in the kitchen.
The point is, Nancy complained about the state of the house AND she also called the exterminator too. She wanted him to come out THAT day but he said he'd be out the next day. Clearly she called the bug guy for a reason, no?
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:21 PM
The sticks and ducks weren't used in a fight...they might have been damaged in a fight, or, Brad was afraid there might have been evidence on them...evidence he couldn't clean away, so he tossed them.
Yes, JA testified she saw those items on 7/11 in the house. Her testimony is solid and truthful and was not impeached. Brad, during his deposition, had no explanation for the missing sticks in the foyer and tried to make it sound like it was something the girls put in the vase, which was not true.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:22 PM
I just listened to that part of the dep. last night and he did say he cleaned the high traffic areas of the floor, the entrance, hallway, kitchen and said he did clean the bathroom floor. He did not clean the floors in the playroom or DR.
Thanks for the clarification. Now, if it actually means something hopefully the prosecution will actually tie it in to something. Given the previous forensic testimony I doubt it, but one can hope.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:23 PM
ME never said, so I assume it was the result of decomposition.
I assumed it was Red Bull. Just the first thought that came to my mind when I heard it.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:24 PM
The point is, Nancy complained about the state of the house AND she also called the exterminator too. She wanted him to come out THAT day but he said he'd be out the next day. Clearly she called the bug guy for a reason, no?
Correct, but it was time for quarterly service anyway. Perhaps she knew that anyway when she called.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:25 PM
I wondered if it had something to do with the realtor email/s. Perhaps the listings he forwarded to Nancy in her efforts to 'get out of the house ASAP.'
That is what I thought as well.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:25 PM
I thought LE testified that his bathroom was pretty clean (as well as the kitchen).
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:26 PM
Correct, but it was time for quarterly service anyway. Perhaps she knew that anyway when she called.
She went out of her way to make a special phone call to him. Regular/quarterly service didn't require her to do anything since it was automatic.
But the point still remains: the garage was still a cluttered mess, where NO CAR COULD FIT. That is the importance of the bug guy testimony, much more so than the bugs he saw in the house. It directly contradicts what BRAD SAID to investigators, in his affidavit, and again, in his deposition. BRAD LIED. He did.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 01:27 PM
The sticks and ducks weren't used in a fight...they might have been damaged in a fight, or, Brad was afraid there might have been evidence on them...evidence he couldn't clean away, so he tossed them.
Yes, JA testified she saw those items on 7/11 in the house. Her testimony is solid and truthful and was not impeached. Brad, during his deposition, had no explanation for the missing sticks in the foyer and tried to make it sound like it was something the girls put in the vase, which was not true.
So we're to believe this witness about the ducks and she could not possibly be mistaken but disregard any witnesses who claimed to see her that morning because they HAD to be mistaken? I am skeptical about a person remembering the ducks, especially since they were boxing everything up in prep of a move. That is not a typical item to leave out if you are getting ready to move. I'm not saying she is lying, just doubtful she saw them on the 11th.
ETA: the ducks are not important in my mind because I'm not positive they were there on the 11th.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:28 PM
"The rooms I DID NOT clean where the bathrooms."
Geez folks, please stop misleading us on what was said in these depositions.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:29 PM
Makes sense, but it doesn't explain why he cleaned the bathroom.
He didn't
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:29 PM
She went out of her way to make a special phone call to him. Regular/quarterly service didn't require her to do anything since it was automatic.
But the point still remains: the garage was still a cluttered mess, where NO CAR COULD FIT.
I don't dispute the garage. That was something that hurt defense yesterday (although I don't know if anyone here expected the guy to know who was sleeping with whom).
Just as an aside, I don't know how they had it, but I have quarterly service and I still need to call to schedule an appt. I usually get a call reminding me of this but they don't just 'show up'.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:31 PM
When was the garage supposedly cleaned out?
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:32 PM
When was the garage supposedly cleaned out?
Brad said the day Nancy left for HH
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:32 PM
When was the garage supposedly cleaned out?
Day(s) before Nancy came home from her vacation on Sunday July 6, 2008 (per BRAD).
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:33 PM
When was the garage supposedly cleaned out?
He said he cleaned it out the previous week but the exterminator said the right side still had 10-12 toys . I did notice that he said that the left side usually was completely packed.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:35 PM
Day(s) before Nancy came home from her vacation on Sunday July 6, 2008 (per BRAD).
I thought it was the Saturday afternoon they left?
In any event it was before the bug man saw the clutter
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:35 PM
I'm interested in the Interact story. Apparently we have no evidence that NC called?
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:35 PM
He said he cleaned it out the previous week but the exterminator said the right side still had 10-12 toys . I did notice that he said that the left side usually was completely packed.
Yeah where did those toys go? Are they the ones that are kind of pushed over to the left side in the photos?
SleuthyGal
04-02-2011, 01:36 PM
Right. Before Nancy got home from vacation. And JTF may be more accurate in it being the same day after Nancy & kids left on vacation.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:37 PM
Yeah where did those toys go? Are they the ones that are kind of pushed over to the left side in the photos?
Well, I think the pool was against a wall and a barbie toy was hanging up. No idea about the other stuff.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:41 PM
Well, I think the pool was against a wall and a barbie toy was hanging up. No idea about the other stuff.
Thanks. Just trying to gauge how quick a job it was to clear the space for the car.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:44 PM
Thanks. Just trying to gauge how quick a job it was to clear the space for the car.
I don't think it was as long as maybe we initially thought. The exterminator said the left side usually was pretty packed so he would only had to move the small amount of objects on the right side. I had initially thought both sides were pretty cluttered but the exterminator didn't make it seem that way (to me). I'd say probably 15 min tops.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:45 PM
Well, I think the pool was against a wall and a barbie toy was hanging up. No idea about the other stuff.
3 days earlier the pool was on the garage floor with 10-12 outside toys.
When do you think he decided to clear the garage and why?
Hint: He could park his car in the right side for the first time, per any evidence.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 01:45 PM
I don't think it was as long as maybe we initially thought. The exterminator said the left side usually was pretty packed so he would only had to move the small amount of objects on the right side. I had initially thought both sides were pretty cluttered but the exterminator didn't make it seem that way (to me). I'd say probably 15 min tops.
That's what I'm thinking too. I was also thinking both sides were originally equally filled.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:46 PM
3 days earlier the pool was on the garage floor with 10-12 outside toys.
When do you think he decided to clear the garage and why?
Hint: He could park his car in the right side for the first time, per any evidence.
Why are you attacking my statement, I only meant that I don't know where the other 9 toys were put up?
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 01:49 PM
Why are you attacking my statement, I only meant that I don't know where the other 9 toys were put up?
I didn't attack your statement.
I just added more based on the garage cleaning question.
DogWood
04-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Well, there was reddish liquid in her stomach. I don't think that came from diet coke.
I've always wondered if the reddish liquid was from the salad that Donna Lopez made. The ingredients were avocado, chopped onion, tomato, lemon and perhaps cilantro. A tomato takes longer to digest than avocado and onion takes even longer. I just mention this because I also recall that she was drinking white wine.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:56 PM
I didn't attack your statement.
I just added more based on the garage cleaning question.
Well obviously he cleaned it up after the exterminator showed up. The only way that testimony is going to get diffused is if someone from the defense testifies that they saw a car parked in the garage during that week.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 01:59 PM
I've always wondered if the reddish liquid was from the salad that Donna Lopez made. The ingredients were avocado, chopped onion, tomato, lemon and perhaps cilantro. A tomato takes longer to digest than avocado and onion takes even longer. I just mention this because I also recall that she was drinking white wine.
This is why the ME testimony was such a fail for the state because at this point they still can't prove she died at 1am due to no evidence of vomit.
CyberPro
04-02-2011, 02:00 PM
Maybe this belongs in the timeline thread, but I am trying to work out all the actions that BC claims to have done.
1. Up at 4AM with crying baby.
2. Supposedly stays up trying to quiet her.
3. 2 hours later, goes to HT for Milk
4. 17 minutes later, after supposedly returning home, returns to HT for Detergent.
5. Takes baby into office to give milk.
6. Somewhere in here, timing unclear, doing laundry.
7. NC leaves for a "run"
8. BC Launches into his imitation of Mr. Clean (after 7AM)
9. Google searches, mops all floors downstairs, continues laundry until 12:30ish.
10. Leaves to look for NC....
So, this gives him between 7AM and 12:30 to do all that cleaning, laundry and STILL have time to do google searches? Man... that guy must have looked like the "White Tornado"....
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:01 PM
Good thought Dogwood.
The onion after 8+ hours is big.
I notice in other autopsy reports I have read, they don't identify liquids in the stomach.
I have seen "brown liquid" or in this case "red liquid". Mixed with gastric juices, it is probably impossible to identify for sure. It very well might be the dip she ate later in the evening after her meal.
LyndyLoo
04-02-2011, 02:02 PM
I'd like to go back to the real estates testimony again..Did he or not clearify he sent a followup email with places that Nancy wanted to know about?..Did she call this man or did she email him? (IIRC she called??)
IF indeed he did, that may very well have the final catalyst for Brad to DO SOMETHING about it..We already understand Nancy left her laptop, important documents locked in her car..so maybe when he got the kids to bed that night,,he was able to get into that car and remove items and look at her laptop...then of course with his extpertise..maybe he didnt even have to have the laptop to do that snooping?? and later got the key off of Nancy when she returned to the house after midnight (12/07/08)?? ETA~...But for some reason Brad seemed to be in possession things he really shouldnt have had when the police came there that afternoon???
Please forgive me..My sometimers disease seems to be affecting me today of some details..:crazy::waitasec:
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:02 PM
Well obviously he cleaned it up after the exterminator showed up. The only way that testimony is going to get diffused is if someone from the defense testifies that they saw a car parked in the garage during that week.
Maybe the same lady that swears she saw Nancy running?????
Cheyenne130
04-02-2011, 02:05 PM
No, he said "something", he did not say wine. (from his deposition)
In video number 7 towards the end (it's after the 50 minute time mark) he does say that when he arrived at the party Nancy complained that she had spilled wine on her dress.
ncsu95
04-02-2011, 02:07 PM
Again, spin it how you like. The exterminator said there was typically clothes strewn about and used dishes out and that is what he attributed to the ant infestation. All the exterminator found in the house was ants. The condition of the house was not out of the ordinary.
We should ignore his testimony because her friends who supposedly knew everything that went on with her testified that Nancy who was prone to embellishment said he did?
Never mind that they did not know the Coopers had money problems, did not know water was turned off due to non-payment on several occasions, did not know they used Tide detergent, did not know the house was regularly untidy, the list goes on and on.
Actually, we shouldn't believe him about the bugs and state of the house, but should believe him about the garage. So we should only partially believe him on the part that helps the prosecutions case.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:07 PM
In video number 7 towards the end (it's after the 50 minute time mark) he does say that when he arrived at the party Nancy complained that she had spilled wine on her dress.
We still want a confirmation she was drinking white wine.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:10 PM
Actually, we shouldn't believe him about the bugs and state of the house, but should believe him about the garage. So we should only partially believe him on the part that helps the prosecutions case.
Kurtz did not try to discredit him.
I'm sure the jury will find him credible.
(Remember, they have not seen the link we saw earlier)
LyndyLoo
04-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Well obviously he cleaned it up after the exterminator showed up. The only way that testimony is going to get diffused is if someone from the defense testifies that they saw a car parked in the garage during that week.
Well, we doo have the testimony of the neighbour walking her dog and noting the garage door open at about 645 AM July 12th..which was unusual..Dont know if car was there or not..she only noted the big black hole..also couldnt recall how many cars were in the driveway..
cityslick
04-02-2011, 02:13 PM
Maybe the same lady that swears she saw Nancy running?????
I can easily dismiss what JA said about seeing the ducks on the 11th (you know, because she is such an impartial witness). Lets hear them testify before we make sweeping judgements on what they say.
DogWood
04-02-2011, 02:14 PM
Good thought Dogwood.
The onion after 8+ hours is big.
I notice in other autopsy reports I have read, they don't identify liquids in the stomach.
I have seen "brown liquid" or in this case "red liquid". Mixed with gastric juices, it is probably impossible to identify for sure. It very well might be the dip she ate later in the evening after her meal.
I agree. IIRC, it takes an onion 3 to 3 1/2 hrs. to digest.
Do you remember what type of dip it was?
ncsu95
04-02-2011, 02:14 PM
Speaking of the ducks and sticks.....can someone tell me again how we know those things were there the day before? Was it just JA's testimony? Because if that is all, I'm skeptical. She may have thought she saw them the day before but maybe it was really not that day. Maybe NC pitched them when she was packing up the house to move and to get it ready to sell. I can't think of how those items could have been used in a fight.
Exactly. There was not blunt force trauma.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 02:16 PM
Well, we doo have the testimony of the neighbour walking her dog and noting the garage door open at about 645 AM July 12th..which was unusual..Dont know if car was there or not..she only noted the big black hole..also couldnt recall how many cars were in the driveway..
That time would have put him pretty much getting right back to the house from the 2nd trip so either he left the garage door open when he went to HT the 2nd time (pretty stupid imo) or he was parked in there. I don't recall if there has been any evidence of seeing whether both cars were in the driveway the morning (7am-12pm) of the 12th.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:16 PM
I can easily dismiss what JA said about seeing the ducks on the 11th (you know, because she is such an impartial witness). Lets hear them testify before we make sweeping judgements on what they say.
I find JA very credible.
I agree, we have only see her written statement carefully worded by Kurtz and Blum, so the actual testimony is what counts. (I have doubts we will ever see her take the stand).
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 02:17 PM
I agree. IIRC, it takes an onion 3 to 3 1/2 hrs. to digest.
Do you remember what type of dip it was?
It was homemade avocado salad
ncsu95
04-02-2011, 02:18 PM
When was the garage supposedly cleaned out?
I thought there was testimony that Nancy said "But you still can't park a car in there" or something along those lines, which indicates that he did work on the garage while she was gone, just didn't get everything.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:19 PM
Exactly. There was not blunt force trauma.
The ME said he could not determine if she had abrasions or bruising because of decomp. A struggle in the foyer could have easily destroyed these things w/o BFT.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:20 PM
I thought there was testimony that Nancy said "But you still can't park a car in there" or something along those lines, which indicates that he did work on the garage while she was gone, just didn't get everything.
I think you meant from JA.... " you still could not park a car in there"
cityslick
04-02-2011, 02:21 PM
I agree. IIRC, it takes an onion 3 to 3 1/2 hrs. to digest.
Do you remember what type of dip it was?
Another reason that the state is trying to put TOD closer to 1am than 4am.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 02:23 PM
He didn't
Maybe you should go back and listen because he did say he probably went by and hit the downstairs bathroom floor real quick since it is such a small area. I don't know about cleaning the rest of the bathroom but he did say he did the floor area.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:23 PM
Another reason that the state is trying to put TOD closer to 1am than 4am.
Certainly makes after 7AM very unlikely.
DogWood
04-02-2011, 02:23 PM
It was homemade avocado salad
Yes, I know about the salad but someone saw her eating dip as well. I just can't remember what type of dip it was. I do remember it sounded awful tho. lol
Something with pumice in it?
cityslick
04-02-2011, 02:23 PM
I think you meant from JA.... " you still could not park a car in there"
Right, JA testified that NC said that to BC (wednesday?) after it had came up that he said he cleaned the garage. So there may be slight truth that he did work in the garage, perhaps reorganize some stuff.
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 02:24 PM
Yes, I know about the salad but someone saw her eating dip as well. I just can't remember what type of dip it was. I do remember it sounded awful tho. lol
Something with pumice in it?
LOL! Maybe hummus?
LyndyLoo
04-02-2011, 02:26 PM
That time would have put him pretty much getting right back to the house from the 2nd trip so either he left the garage door open when he went to HT the 2nd time (pretty stupid imo) or he was parked in there. I don't recall if there has been any evidence of seeing whether both cars were in the driveway the morning (7am-12pm) of the 12th.
Me neither, and I wonder if pros. is finished with neighbour testimony??..Guess we will have to wait and see..
Speculating.. Brad started to clean out garage that morning but hadnt finished it yet.. Only going by his dep that he had worked all that week up to including Friday 11th, and the "Bug Guy" saw the mess and clutter on the 8th..I would have to assume he did that cleanup on Sat AM sometime...so he could put one of the cars in there...Who knows..maybe he cleaned that out when kids went to bed and Nancy was still at the party Fri.evening???..
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm interested in the Interact story. Apparently we have no evidence that NC called?
I believe it has been confirmed that she did not call, but not sure if that was through Interact or phone records.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:28 PM
Maybe you should go back and listen because he did say he probably went by and hit the downstairs bathroom floor real quick since it is such a small area. I don't know about cleaning the rest of the bathroom but he did say he did the floor area.
I listened to his testimony about cleaning the upstairs floor.
(where the struggle started , IMO).When asked, he said he didn't clean the bathrooms (Ms Stubbs had a specific point and she got her answer)
Like I said, most folks address their bathrooms in some way, especially if you go on a whirlwind cleaning spree for hours.
DogWood
04-02-2011, 02:28 PM
LOL! Maybe hummus?
Yeah, what you said!
:floorlaugh:
ETA: I'm not a fan of hummus either....but it does sound better than pumice! :)
DogWood
04-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Another reason that the state is trying to put TOD closer to 1am than 4am.
I really think the undigested onion is huge.
I'd like to go back to the real estates testimony again..Did he or not clearify he sent a followup email with places that Nancy wanted to know about?..Did she call this man or did she email him? (IIRC she called??)
IF indeed he did, that may very well have the final catalyst for Brad to DO SOMETHING about it..We already understand Nancy left her laptop, important documents locked in her car..so maybe when he got the kids to bed that night,,he was able to get into that car and remove items and look at her laptop...then of course with his extpertise..maybe he didnt even have to have the laptop to do that snooping?? and later got the key off of Nancy when she returned to the house after midnight (12/07/08)?? ETA~...But for some reason Brad seemed to be in possession things he really shouldnt have had when the police came there that afternoon???
Please forgive me..My sometimers disease seems to be affecting me today of some details..:crazy::waitasec:
I went back and listened to the realtors testimony and he states that he left a long voice mail to Nancy stating that perhaps they could meet next Tuesday or Wednesday. Over the weekend he would send her some choices of Townhouses, Apts etc. He never said (that I heard) that he sent the list.
I also read in one of the search warrants that Brad (since April 2008) was having a copy of all Nancy's email sent to his gmail account. He read Nancy's email 3x on July 11. The last time at 10:13 P.M. (when he said he was sleeping).
cody100
04-02-2011, 02:36 PM
He said he cleaned it out the previous week but the exterminator said the right side still had 10-12 toys . I did notice that he said that the left side usually was completely packed.
Brad could have cleaned the garage up, but when they returned 10 or 12 of their toys could easily get thrown back over in the unpacking of the car from their vacation. I am not saying it is the case, but it is possible when you consider just 10 or 12 toys were over there. As for the ducks and candle sticks, I am not at all sure that is concrete proof of homicide in the foyer.
CyberPro
04-02-2011, 02:36 PM
I'd like to go back to the real estates testimony again..Did he or not clearify he sent a followup email with places that Nancy wanted to know about?..Did she call this man or did she email him? (IIRC she called??)
IF indeed he did, that may very well have the final catalyst for Brad to DO SOMETHING about it..We already understand Nancy left her laptop, important documents locked in her car..so maybe when he got the kids to bed that night,,he was able to get into that car and remove items and look at her laptop...then of course with his extpertise..maybe he didnt even have to have the laptop to do that snooping?? and later got the key off of Nancy when she returned to the house after midnight (12/07/08)?? ETA~...But for some reason Brad seemed to be in possession things he really shouldnt have had when the police came there that afternoon???
Please forgive me..My sometimers disease seems to be affecting me today of some details..:crazy::waitasec:
I agree that BC seems to have had some posessions that should have been locked away, but I don't think he needed the laptop to know every e-mail NC had received. It has not been admitted into evidence yet, but in some of the earlier readings it seemed that they were indicating that BC had created another e-mail account on the RoadRunner system that was getting all mail sent to NC's account. He could then get the e-mail from the copied account, and she would not see that he was monitoring her messages.
When you get RoadRunner for Internet Access there is a designated Master account. You can use this account to create e-mail sub-accounts, and one of the options is to have any messages received by one account forwarded to a different account. This can be useful, for example: suppose you have a gmail account and you use it all the time, but don't use the RoadRunner account much. You forward all the messages from the RR account to the gmail account. This is not the only reason you might want to set up something like this, but it can be useful.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 02:42 PM
I'd like to go back to the real estates testimony again..Did he or not clearify he sent a followup email with places that Nancy wanted to know about?..Did she call this man or did she email him? (IIRC she called??)
IF indeed he did, that may very well have the final catalyst for Brad to DO SOMETHING about it..We already understand Nancy left her laptop, important documents locked in her car..so maybe when he got the kids to bed that night,,he was able to get into that car and remove items and look at her laptop...then of course with his extpertise..maybe he didnt even have to have the laptop to do that snooping?? and later got the key off of Nancy when she returned to the house after midnight (12/07/08)?? ETA~...But for some reason Brad seemed to be in possession things he really shouldnt have had when the police came there that afternoon???
Please forgive me..My sometimers disease seems to be affecting me today of some details..:crazy::waitasec:
There is evidence he did have things set up to receive her emails automatically and there is evidence that he read 3 of them on the 11th. We don't know the content of them yet though. (I shouldn't say for sure though, since this was reported in the newspaper and we all know they have been inaccurate with certain things).
SleuthinNC
04-02-2011, 02:51 PM
There is evidence he did have things set up to receive her emails automatically and there is evidence that he read 3 of them on the 11th. We don't know the content of them yet though. (I shouldn't say for sure though, since this was reported in the newspaper and we all know they have been inaccurate with certain things).
So here is a question, how do we know that he read the emails? I don't recall where that info came from.
SleuthSayer
04-02-2011, 02:52 PM
Maybe this belongs in the timeline thread, but I am trying to work out all the actions that BC claims to have done.
1. Up at 4AM with crying baby.
2. Supposedly stays up trying to quiet her.
3. 2 hours later, goes to HT for Milk
4. 17 minutes later, returns to HT for Detergent.
5. Takes baby into office to give milk.
6. Somewhere in here, timing unclear, doing laundry.
7. NC leaves for a "run"
8. BC Launches into his imitation of Mr. Clean (after 7AM)
9. Google searches, mops all floors downstairs, continues laundry until 12:30ish.
10. Leaves to look for NC....
So, this gives him between 7AM and 12:30 to do all that cleaning, laundry and STILL have time to do google searches? Man... that guy must have looked like the "White Tornado"....
Yeah, but if he did it, it seems like the list becomes:
1. NC gets home around midnight
<Possibly a 4 hour delay if you go with the 4am murder theory>
2. Fight
3. Murder
<Some ordering of the following>
4. Body preparation (remove clothes, add sports bra)
5. Google searches to find a dump site
6. Garage cleaning to be able to get a car in
7. Loading body in car
8. Drive to dump site and unload
9. Mad cleaning (done remarkably well if all he missed was one piece of straw)
10. Laundry
11. Phone magic to set up spoofed call
12. Goes to HT for Milk
13. 17 minutes later, after supposedly returning home, returns to HT for Detergent.
14. Disposal of his shoes and, two missing running shoes, foyer ducks, etc
15. Vacuuming of trunk, car cleanup, etc
16. Kids get up <Not sure what time, probably early since they are young>
I'm guessing that most of these, with the exception of the laundry, had to have been done before the kids got up since it would be too high risk to let the 4 year old see him doing them because she was old enough to report that she saw it, particularly since supposedly it was unusual to see dad doing them.
Certainly the mad cleaning had to have been done before they got up because otherwise they could have tracked whatever he was trying to clean up all over the house.
So, whether his story or the prosecution's story is correct, he got a lot done in a relatively short amount of time.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 02:53 PM
In video number 7 towards the end (it's after the 50 minute time mark) he does say that when he arrived at the party Nancy complained that she had spilled wine on her dress.
Okay, I just went back and found that again. It was actually on the 8th tape near the beginning and it was Alice who asked, "is that when she told you she spilled something on her dress?" then Brad answered "yes, she spilled wine". So that is how I got the idea is was "something" instead of wine. Sorry about that.
Hmmm....so what was the oily substance? Spot remover maybe?
water_dancing
04-02-2011, 02:56 PM
I really think the undigested onion is huge.
I completely disagree.
The ME stated that it was "something that appeared to be an onion". If he was sure it wasan onion, it would have been stated as such.
The ME stated that a TOD after 7AM was not out of the question. If this onion was huge than he would not have been able to come to that conclusion.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 02:57 PM
Brad could have cleaned the garage up, but when they returned 10 or 12 of their toys could easily get thrown back over in the unpacking of the car from their vacation. I am not saying it is the case, but it is possible when you consider just 10 or 12 toys were over there. As for the ducks and candle sticks, I am not at all sure that is concrete proof of homicide in the foyer.
I don't think the 10-12 items he talked about were 'small" toys.
In addition to the swimming pool, he mentioned things they would use outside in the cul de sac...I assumed scooters, tricycles, plastic playhouse, ect.
BTW, nothing we have seen yet is "concrete proof" of a murder.
It's all the little things that are beginning to be pieced together.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:00 PM
I completely disagree.
The ME stated that it was "something that appeared to be an onion". If he was sure it wasan onion, it would have been stated as such.
The ME stated that a TOD after 7AM was not out of the question. If this onion was huge than he would not have been able to come to that conclusion.
It was obviously something solid.
Anyway you look at it, it would be digested by 7AM
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:04 PM
Okay, I just went back and found that again. It was actually on the 8th tape near the beginning and it was Alice who asked, "is that when she told you she spilled something on her dress?" then Brad answered "yes, she spilled wine". So that is how I got the idea is was "something" instead of wine. Sorry about that.
Hmmm....so what was the oily substance? Spot remover maybe?
Thanks for your correction.
Oily substance could have been a small spot of salad dressing? The SBI never said where it was or how large a 'spot' it was. After drinking all night at a party, I would find it very likely she dripped something small on her dress before 12AM.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 03:06 PM
So here is a question, how do we know that he read the emails? I don't recall where that info came from.
Good question. I'm going to have to go back and find that article again.
Amster
04-02-2011, 03:11 PM
Thanks for your correction.
Oily substance could have been a small spot of salad dressing? The SBI never said where it was or how large a 'spot' it was. After drinking all night at a party, I would find it very likely she dripped something small on her dress before 12AM.
How much did she have to drink? Was the ME able to test her BAC??
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:13 PM
How much did she have to drink? Was the ME able to test her BAC??
ME said alcohol level was skewed by byproduct of decomposition.
Witnesses said she drank multiple glasses of wine and numerous beers.
Cheyenne130
04-02-2011, 03:13 PM
How much did she have to drink? Was the ME able to test her BAC??
According to the ME testimony as I remember it, he tested some fluid but not blood. There was not enough blood to do a BAC. There were two clots that the ME sent off to the lab along with the SAK in the event that other testing was needed.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:17 PM
" Toxicological screens on fluid obtained at autopsy revealed an ethanol concentration of
60 mg/dL which could be the result of decomposition"
Autopsy report on BAC
cody100
04-02-2011, 03:18 PM
I don't think the 10-12 items he talked about were 'small" toys.
In addition to the swimming pool, he mentioned things they would use outside in the cul de sac...I assumed scooters, tricycles, plastic playhouse, ect.
BTW, nothing we have seen yet is "concrete proof" of a murder.
It's all the little things that are beginning to be pieced together.
I honestly did not remember what the items were. I am glad to hear that nothing seen so far is concrete proof of a murder. Seems to be that some have already convicted him based on incomplete facts. I will wait for the remainder of the evidence. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Amster
04-02-2011, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the BAC info....
water_dancing
04-02-2011, 03:20 PM
Nancy was angry about the kitchen and the playroom having bugs, according to testimony from Nancy's friends and according to Brad's testimony on his deposition. BRAD spent a lot of time cleaning the front foyer and the stairs and the hardwood floors upstairs.
I don't believe that there were bugs in the playroom. If there were, I'm sure she would have called the bug man earlier, either over the weekend and left a message or 1st thing Monday morning. She didn't.
I also think that if there were she would have definitely mentioned it to the bug man when she did speak to him on the phone. She didn't.
I can't believe that with it being the kids playroom that she won't have addressed with the exterminator.
My take on BC's cleaning of the hardwoods that morning follows a similar thread. He cleaned to floors to make sure all the ants were gone. If you look at the pictures, the hardwood is dark and the floors in the bathroom are light. It would be harder to see ants on the hardwood so the whole thing would need to be cleaned.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:21 PM
I honestly did not remember what the items were. I am glad to hear that nothing seen so far is concrete proof of a murder. Seems to be that some have already convicted him based on incomplete facts. I will wait for the remainder of the evidence. But, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I personally have no doubt he did it.
However, I would vote NG at this point.
I too will wait for the remainder of the evidence.
DogWood
04-02-2011, 03:28 PM
OK. I did go back and listen to part of DD's testimony. She mentions pita chips & hummus (now known as pumice, lol) and guacamole and chips.
johnfear
04-02-2011, 03:30 PM
Good question. I'm going to have to go back and find that article again.
It's in an odd part of one of the S/W (maybe for the Compact Flash card? or a phone) and I believe it is outlined in the probable cause portion sort of off-handedly. It could even be the later warrant that has the various google account/Adventures of Brad information.
I will dig around. It does state either that he accessed or read her emails. I am guessing at the times...but I think two times were earlier in the day and one time was later in the day. (NO, third time was the 10:30 or 10:13 PM one)
I wonder if they checked to see if he "monitored" her emails between Saturday at noon and when her body was found? (sorry for the K and B questament.) That would be BIG. Monitor, monitor, monitor, STOP.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:32 PM
OK. I did go back and listen to part of DD's testimony. She mentions pita chips & hummus (now known as pumice, lol) and guacamole and chips.
If she did regurgitate like Mr Cummings suggested, that would be quite a mess to clean up.:drink:
water_dancing
04-02-2011, 03:33 PM
I wonder what was in her last e-mails that Brad read Friday night?
Could have lit the fuse?
I've been wondering this too. I want to see what the FBI testifies about this.
I was wondering when the RE agent was on the stand if he was going to say he emailed her that info on Friday but he didn't. He still could have.
The other I was wondering if it could be is a paternity issue.
cityslick
04-02-2011, 03:33 PM
I personally have no doubt he did it.
However, I would vote NG at this point.
I too will wait for the remainder of the evidence.
From my point of view, if the state can prove it more likely than not that he faked the morning call and they have damming evidence from the computer (any computer activity in the early hours of the 12th) should be enough to convict. If the defense brings experts that make it seem unlikely that he faked the calls, and all you got from the computer is google searches from weeks prior of fielding drive, then I don't see how you convict him. At that point, disregarding any other evidence, to me they would not have proven that she did not leave the house at 7am.
cody100
04-02-2011, 03:40 PM
I personally have no doubt he did it.
However, I would vote NG at this point.
I too will wait for the remainder of the evidence.
That is interesting that you have no doubt he did it, but you would vote NG so far. I have heard that from others too. Is there some reason you would vote NG right now?
SleuthSayer
04-02-2011, 03:41 PM
I personally have no doubt he did it.
However, I would vote NG at this point.
I too will wait for the remainder of the evidence.
I think that he probably did it and I have no doubt that he will be found guilty.
I think that you could give the case to the jury today or you can wait another 3 or 4 weeks and the result would be the same either way.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:44 PM
That is interesting that you have no doubt he did it, but you would vote NG so far. I have heard that from others too. Is there some reason you would vote NG right now?
I guess I should have said "hardly any doubt"
The state has not proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt....yet.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 03:45 PM
I think that he probably did it and I have no doubt that he will be found guilty.
I think that you could give the case to the jury today or you can wait another 3 or 4 weeks and the result would be the same either way.
Interesting
lib's mom
04-02-2011, 03:51 PM
It's in an odd part of one of the S/W (maybe for the Compact Flash card? or a phone) and I believe it is outlined in the probable cause portion sort of off-handedly. It could even be the later warrant that has the various google account/Adventures of Brad information.
I will dig around. It does state either that he accessed or read her emails. I am guessing at the times...but I think two times were earlier in the day and one time was later in the day. (NO, third time was the 10:30 or 10:13 PM one)
I wonder if they checked to see if he "monitored" her emails between Saturday at noon and when her body was found? (sorry for the K and B questament.) That would be BIG. Monitor, monitor, monitor, STOP.
Try the 12-02-08 SW posted in the legal docs. thread. It's a 12-05-08 post by SG. Is this what you're thinking of?
cody100
04-02-2011, 04:03 PM
I guess I should have said "hardly any doubt"
The state has not proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt....yet.
Thanks for the explanation. Yes, I would say we are in agreement. The state has not proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt at this point. The next week should be interesting.
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 04:10 PM
I listened to his testimony about cleaning the upstairs floor.
(where the struggle started , IMO).When asked, he said he didn't clean the bathrooms (Ms Stubbs had a specific point and she got her answer)
Like I said, most folks address their bathrooms in some way, especially if you go on a whirlwind cleaning spree for hours.
Okay, I never heard about the upstairs bathroom. I don't find it odd to clean downstairs floors but not upstairs bathrooms. We have a 3200 sq ft house and 4 bathrooms so I always split up the cleaning. I do the downstairs bathroom floor with the rest of my hardwoods and the upstairs bathrooms on a different day.
Plus he was watching two young kids. He probably needed to stay downstairs with them, right?
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 04:15 PM
Okay, I never heard about the upstairs bathroom. I don't find it odd to clean downstairs floors but not upstairs bathrooms. We have a 3200 sq ft house and 4 bathrooms so I always split up the cleaning. I do the downstairs bathroom floor with the rest of my hardwoods and the upstairs bathrooms on a different day.
Plus he was watching two young kids. He probably needed to stay downstairs with them, right?
I guess it's hard to say what Brad would have normally done, since he didn't have a track record for cleaning much of anything before 7-12-08.:wink:
sunshine05
04-02-2011, 04:18 PM
I guess it's hard to say what Brad would have normally done, since he didn't have a track record for cleaning much of anything before 7-12-08.:wink:
Neither of them did, it seems.
Just the Fax
04-02-2011, 04:25 PM
Frankly, i'm surprised they didn't have a maid come in every couple of weeks.
Then again, money was very tight and there were obviously other priorities.
Plus, i'm sure Brad expected Nancy to be supermom/wife and do 100% of the domestic chores.
CaryCanuck
04-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Okay, I never heard about the upstairs bathroom. I don't find it odd to clean downstairs floors but not upstairs bathrooms. We have a 3200 sq ft house and 4 bathrooms so I always split up the cleaning. I do the downstairs bathroom floor with the rest of my hardwoods and the upstairs bathrooms on a different day.
Plus he was watching two young kids. He probably needed to stay downstairs with them, right?
Remember the photo of the tv in the doorway?? I believe he put his little children in there to watch a movie and was able to get through a lot of cleaning without interference.
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
0