View Full Version : Theories before trial begins
stmarysmead
04-13-2011, 07:19 AM
The situation in this case is clear.
On one hand, Coleman may be innocent. To believe this, the jury will need to accept that he and his family were stalked for months by a diabolical killer obsessed with, not them, but the ministry he worked for. This mythical killer then decided to take his wrath toward the Ministry out on the WIFE and CHILDREN of a mid-level employee...but not the Ministry or even the employee himself.
In fact, this Murderer who was watching the house obsessively...sat watching somewhere equipped with spray paint...and watched and waited till the Employee of the ministry LEFT, then hurried in to slaughter the family and spray paint his messages.
The alternative scenario is that shortly after bedding Tara, this husband and father began plotting how to murder his wife and little boys and get away with it. This murder is not one of losing controlling, succumbing to rage...this is a calculated slaughter.
How many times did Coleman envision how he would choke the life out of those little boys who loved him? How many times did he receive their hugs and calculate how much force it might take to snuff the breath out of them. All through Christmas, and altar calls, and family events, it wasn't just Sheri whose death plan was being finalized...it was those boys.
How many humans could look at even a pet in their home, healthy and loving and start to plan how in months ahead, YOU yourself would kill it in cold blood.
I hope that Tara is questioned about the names for their children. In Coleman's mind, he had moved on. Sheri's babies were trash to him, to be snuffed out and discarded...so they did not impede on the lives of the new babies he and Tara would make.
It's one or the other. There is no room for middle ground here.
Because either Coleman is a victim or one of these most calculating pieces of evil that ever sat in a courtroom.
Kimster
04-13-2011, 10:40 AM
I'm going to elaborate a bit on your post StMarys. If this WAS a deranged murderer, why haven't we heard from them again? Seriously! If that deranged, I don't think they would have stopped with the murders. There would have been a note to Coleman later as well.
BTW, I made a new thread as this way Off Topic from jury selection and a great post for a new thread to reevaluate the case today! :tyou:
ynotdivein
04-13-2011, 10:48 AM
The situation in this case is clear.
On one hand, Coleman may be innocent. To believe this, the jury will need to accept that he and his family were stalked for months by a diabolical killer obsessed with, not them, but the ministry he worked for. This mythical killer then decided to take his wrath toward the Ministry out on the WIFE and CHILDREN of a mid-level employee...but not the Ministry or even the employee himself.
In fact, this Murderer who was watching the house obsessively...sat watching somewhere equipped with spray paint...and watched and waited till the Employee of the ministry LEFT, then hurried in to slaughter the family and spray paint his messages.
Respectfully snipped for space.
Don't forget too that this alleged stalker/murderer managed to use Chris's computer at JMM to craft some of the threats that were sent to the home. :banghead:
Agree with all who are asking themselves, why is he putting his family and the jurors through what they are about to go through? Will he plea at the last minute?
Brian5671
04-13-2011, 11:15 AM
Coleman has no choice but to go to trial-a Plea Deal would not give him anything but life. Even if convicted, he's not likely to die given the current climate around the death penalty--so why not try for a chance, however small it may be to get acquitted. He's an uncaring cold soul, so he doesnt care who he has to put through a trial-as long as he has a shot at freedom, that's all he cares about. Plus if he goes to trial and is convicted he can still maintain his innocence, a plea deal makes him actually admit guilt. This way he can save face and that is what it is all about for CC.
-
Looking at the known evidence, he has an uphill battle:
1. analysis which shows threat letters written from his own computer
2. Camera from cop across the street shows no activity around the coleman house (coleman will argue that it didnt cover the back of the house though)
3. handwriting analysis shows the spray paint was likely done by CC
4. Same analysis shows that CC mispells the word "opportunity" the same way all the time--so when it appears in the phony threat letter, they know it's him
5. Evidence found along his route to the gym
6. Evidence that suggests he took a longer route home from the gym (cell phone pinging off certain towers)
7. Obvious motive of Tara/new life
8. Time of death issue
9. Short time for murder to occur--1 hr and 15 minutes tops...
-
feel free to add to this list
-
I am sure that the prosecution has some evidence that we dont even know about...
ynotdivein
04-13-2011, 11:21 AM
10. Grass in backyard outside unlocked window was wet with morning dew--yet no grass blades or mud found on floor/carpet inside window.
stmarysmead
04-13-2011, 11:53 AM
11. Coleman's "double life" is not only a motive but contains evidence he was crafting an alibi for the murders he planned.
Tara reportedly had sent out wedding Save-the-Dates. She had flown up and they had gone house-hunting together. A cruise for the Lovebirds that summer had been planned.
Yet, he was maintaining the image to others that his marriage was on the mend...attending a prayer call at the altar right before the murder.
Why the need to make his employer (The Church) feel that he was 'saving his marriage"...when the new Bride-to-be was hunting for the home he was about to buy her?
Because he knew the facade with Sheri was going to come to a permanent DEAD end ...he had a plan in the works to reconcile the two parts of his life....and still be the wonderful "good guy."
who knew?
04-13-2011, 02:23 PM
12 - receipts for the red spray paint found in his car.
And my memory may be failing me, but I'd think some of the financial info would make it into the trial - the refinancing of the home, credit card in Sheri's name in Chris's car ... I'm thinking there was another item in that same vein, but can't remember.
12 - receipts for the red spray paint found in his car.
And my memory may be failing me, but I'd think some of the financial info would make it into the trial - the refinancing of the home, credit card in Sheri's name in Chris's car ... I'm thinking there was another item in that same vein, but can't remember.
There was also the Quit Claim deed (?), taking Sheri's name off of the house. As I recall the signature did not look like hers.
13) One of the boys was supposed to spend the night at the neighbors the night of the murders and at some point Chris said that it was not a good night for that.
Kimster
04-13-2011, 03:28 PM
Coleman has no choice but to go to trial-a Plea Deal would not give him anything but life. Even if convicted, he's not likely to die given the current climate around the death penalty--so why not try for a chance, however small it may be to get acquitted. He's an uncaring cold soul, so he doesnt care who he has to put through a trial-as long as he has a shot at freedom, that's all he cares about. Plus if he goes to trial and is convicted he can still maintain his innocence, a plea deal makes him actually admit guilt. This way he can save face and that is what it is all about for CC.
-
Looking at the known evidence, he has an uphill battle:
1. analysis which shows threat letters written from his own computer
2. Camera from cop across the street shows no activity around the coleman house (coleman will argue that it didnt cover the back of the house though)
3. handwriting analysis shows the spray paint was likely done by CC
4. Same analysis shows that CC mispells the word "opportunity" the same way all the time--so when it appears in the phony threat letter, they know it's him
5. Evidence found along his route to the gym
6. Evidence that suggests he took a longer route home from the gym (cell phone pinging off certain towers)
7. Obvious motive of Tara/new life
8. Time of death issue
9. Short time for murder to occur--1 hr and 15 minutes tops...
-
feel free to add to this list
-
I am sure that the prosecution has some evidence that we dont even know about...
This post and all the other members' additions to it are reminding me of all the evidence! Thanks for the refresher course all! :grouphug:
And the reason he's going to trial makes sense to me now as well. The DP is off the table, Illinois has abolished it in the meantime. :mad:
Melanie
04-13-2011, 03:45 PM
12 - receipts for the red spray paint found in his car.
And my memory may be failing me, but I'd think some of the financial info would make it into the trial - the refinancing of the home, credit card in Sheri's name in Chris's car ... I'm thinking there was another item in that same vein, but can't remember.
That and the threating letters from his own pooter did it for me. If this guy isn't guilty, then I'm the Queen of England. Why he's even bothering with a trial is beyond me!
MOO
Mel
who knew?
04-13-2011, 06:38 PM
This post and all the other members' additions to it are reminding me of all the evidence! Thanks for the refresher course all! :grouphug:
And the reason he's going to trial makes sense to me now as well. The DP is off the table, Illinois has abolished it in the meantime. :mad:
I agree - I'd forgotten some of the evidence. As for the dp in Ill, I think I read that it is still on the table for Coleman because his trial will begin before July 1. Did anyone else hear this? The ban on the dp was supposed to begin July 1.
ETA - Maybe this is what I remembered reading....
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/article_d953a854-63f4-11e0-8d8d-001a4bcf6878.html
"Jurors must meet tight standards for a capital case, as prosecutors are persisting in seeking a death penalty even though a state law effective July 1 will prohibit imposing death sentences thereafter."
Wrinkles
04-13-2011, 07:50 PM
Thinking...
From this article... (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,521119,00.html) and this one (http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/sources-say-coleman-family-dead-before-chris-coleman-left-home).
"I told you so" was written in the house. IF Chris wrote the threats and that is proven (it came from his computer with his login), then the "I told you so" is further proof of "who" told you so and "who did the murders". Kinda sounds like a confession in spray paint to me.
Disneyland trip cancelled... Police took tickets into evidence. Remember that? According to one of our archived webpages (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-86787.html), someone (maybe TallOne) originally wrote: "Their trip to Disney in FL was supposed to be the week after the murders took place. They were murdered on May 5, so that would be the week of May 10 they were supposed to be on vacation. " I don't remember seeing any direct evidence about the date on the tickets, does anyone have that from an article?
Kinda like, you cancel tickets because you don't want to waste money paying for tickets for someone who isn't going to be able to go to Disneyland? Kinda sounds like premeditated by the "I" in the "I told you so."
Rubber glove found on Interstate 255... Anyone remember this? (http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-coleman-late-0502009,0,416940.story) "Detectives have visited stores near the Coleman home that would sell spray paint, asking for paint samples and looking at surveillance pictures. They fingerprinted Christopher Coleman last week, after recovering a rubber glove on the side of Interstate 255 in Illinois." Did we ever hear if there was a fingerprint or paint match on that glove?
Forearm injuries -- remember that? (http://www.bnd.com/2009/06/11/803493/colemans-alibi-is-disputed-expert.html) "Emergency medical personnel were called to the scene and Chris Coleman was loaded into the ambulance with the chaplain for the Columbia police. ... The chaplain reported seeing an abrasion on Coleman's forearm and asked how it happened, and he told the chaplain he didn't know, Edwards said. He later told his father, Ronald Coleman, minister of Grace Church Ministries in Chester, that he got the injury punching a gurney after learning of his family's deaths."
Well Chris, just how/when did you get that forearm injury BEFORE you got into the ambulance? Was it when you were thrashing in the grass making a scene? Did you hit a sprinkler head and it looked like scratch marks or gouges? There is a little on that on the Nancy Grace transcript (http://www.studentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/29/ng.01.html) i.e. about some fresh injuries on Chris that morning. And this transcript (http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/10/ng.01.html) - "UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Christopher Coleman had two scratches and some other injury on his right forearm. " I believe there is other documentation on these arm injuries... I also remember suspecting something goofy when I heard about him thrashing around on the grass or something oddly after hearing of the bodies.
Chris...did you think we would forget? We know the police didn't...
I remember seeing the Detectives on the side of the highway searching on my way home from work. I do recall the rubber gloves found on the side of the road and something about them matching rubber gloves found in the Coleman's downstairs basement. Also I believe that it was stated that they also found the DVR cover that was missing from the house and twine that matched twine that was on hay bales in the back of the Coleman house.
Kimster
04-13-2011, 08:16 PM
It's like he left a trail of evidence behind him. If this isn't a slam dunk case, nothing is!
Brian5671
04-13-2011, 09:35 PM
Another thing I remember from the inquest is that the officers noted that Coleman never asked how his family died...when he came back, he asked "what's going on?" to which officers replied "they didnt make it"...they found it odd that he never asked how they were killed...if the man were innocent certainly he'd want to know that...he doesnt ask of course because he does know how they died, since he did it!!!!
Wrinkles
04-14-2011, 12:38 PM
Yup Brian,
He didn't ask because he didn't need to be told any of the details, he had them all to give to them and he has not.
Great list above...thanks Brian and thanks everyone for adding to it.
panthera
04-14-2011, 09:25 PM
Thanks everyone for not only refreshing my memory but giving a synopsis of the evidence we can expect at the trial. :)
Wrinkles
04-15-2011, 11:06 AM
So Gang...
What evidence is there that we have "not" heard about yet?
Do they have a person who saw Chris flipping things out of his car on the freeway?
Do they have his fingerprints or one of the children's or Sheri's hairs or DNA on the glove that they found? How about tire tracks near some of the evidence found, tracks that match CC's car?
In one case, they did not disturb one of the children's beds -- someone thought there was evidence on it. What evidence? Did Chris get scratched and bleed on that bed? Did they find his blood at the crime scene? His fingerprint on one of the bodies? Or was it just another one of Chris' misspellings that they found spray painted on the bed, we know there was word of something like that.
Can you imagine? Can you imagine a man who could not only do what Chris did, but then hang over the murdered body of his child and spray paint a vulgar hateful thing on the coverings of the bed that was formerly a safe haven for that child?
My guess is that LE found far FAR more than we already know about AND that the slam dunk that we already see is going to be profoundly multiplied. We will soon learn things that will probably sicken us far beyond what we are sickened.
I am already waiting to hear what the judge has to say at the time Chris is sentenced. My guess is that Judge Wharton will have a mouth full to say to CC.
who knew?
04-15-2011, 01:52 PM
Wrinkles, didn't we hear something about the glove that was found? I know the paint on the glove matched the paint at the house. But I thought I saw where they had evidence from inside the glove - don't remember if it was a palm print or fingerprint - or something else. I remember there was something - but can't remember my source.
Wrinkles
04-15-2011, 06:29 PM
WhoKnew,
I think you are correct about the glove OR it was wishful thinking on our part. Maybe the glove was the same as one found at the house, but I certainly seem to have memories of "hope" about the glove which leads me to believe there was a hint of something that connected it. We will soon see, but in the meanwhile, maybe someone can search in here and find the references?
Wrinkles
04-15-2011, 06:36 PM
Got this from CBS news... (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5027178-504083.html)
>>A glove found along a local Illinois interstate may have been a key clue to the case. Law enforcement said the glove appeared to have stains from red spray paint. It has been reportedthat a similar paint color was used by the killer to scrawl a message on a wall in the Coleman home. The glove is now being tested for fingerprints and DNA.<<
Got this from Examiner... (http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-tampa-bay/chris-coleman-alleged-girlfriend-lives-largo-florida)
>>Police find glove believed to be used in Coleman family murder case!
The glove was found along Interstate 255 in Illinois, on the same route that Chris Coleman would have traveled to the gym, where he was on May 5, 2009, before the police discovered his wife and two sons were strangled to death. The glove reportedly appeared to have stains that resembled red spray paint, similar to the paint that was found in the home where the bodies were located. The killer allegedly scrawled a message on a wall with red spray paint. Forensics are being performed to determine finger prints and DNA on the inside of the glove. <<
From St. Louis Today and Nancy Grace CNN video with Nick Pistor... (http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/youtube_c5b71414-8d32-11df-b4e3-00127992bc8b.html)
Discusses the find, shows a map, etc. Mentions Golds Gym does have cameras, just remembered that...
Wrinkles
04-15-2011, 06:44 PM
I was just reminded in the above mentioned video. Chris cited the cost of the funeral in two places. I was then reminded that I had read something about Chris being given a 10K bonus just after the murders. This is what the Examiner said:
Chris Coleman received $10,000 cash advance from Joyce Meyer day after murders: (http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-tampa-bay/chris-coleman-received-10-000-cash-advance-from-joyce-meyer-day-after-murders)
>>This includes new information that Joyce Meyer had advanced Chris Coleman $10,000 in cash the day following the Coleman murders.<<
Looks like Chris copped that he needed money. My guess is that it wasn't spent on the funerals, but rather on his defense.
stmarysmead
04-15-2011, 07:24 PM
I was just reminded in the above mentioned video. Chris cited the cost of the funeral in two places. I was then reminded that I had read something about Chris being given a 10K bonus just after the murders. This is what the Examiner said:
Chris Coleman received $10,000 cash advance from Joyce Meyer day after murders: (http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-tampa-bay/chris-coleman-received-10-000-cash-advance-from-joyce-meyer-day-after-murders)
>>This includes new information that Joyce Meyer had advanced Chris Coleman $10,000 in cash the day following the Coleman murders.<<
Looks like Chris copped that he needed money. My guess is that it wasn't spent on the funerals, but rather on his defense.
And I'm reminded that he and Tara had a wonderful cruise booked for the summer. He wasn't complaining about money when he booked that trip.
CCmakes3
04-15-2011, 11:08 PM
And I'm reminded that he and Tara had a wonderful cruise booked for the summer. He wasn't complaining about money when he booked that trip.
I've been a long-time lurker on this thread ever since hearing about this case from my best friend, who happens to be a cousin of Sheri's. She doesn't like to talk about the matter and hasn't mentioned anything about it since a couple weeks after the murders, but on the topic of money and funeral expenses, I remember her telling me that at the funeral, Coleman asked the guests for donations. I can't remember if they actually passed a plate or just set up a box outside of the sanctuary, but she donated and was VERY angry a few days later when she started hearing the evidence that was coming out against him. :furious:
Kimster
04-15-2011, 11:16 PM
I've been a long-time lurker on this thread ever since hearing about this case from my best friend, who happens to be a cousin of Sheri's. She doesn't like to talk about the matter and hasn't mentioned anything about it since a couple weeks after the murders, but on the topic of money and funeral expenses, I remember her telling me that at the funeral, Coleman asked the guests for donations. I can't remember if they actually passed a plate or just set up a box outside of the sanctuary, but she donated and was VERY angry a few days later when she started hearing the evidence that was coming out against him. :furious:
I think I remember reading a comment on a news site that someone else was upset about that too! Does anyone else remember? I need to get the cobwebs out of my head on this case.
Wrinkles
04-15-2011, 11:49 PM
Hello CCmakes3,
Thanks for hopping in and joining us. Please give our care and condolences to Sheri's cousin. The pain and anger her family members feel must be so hard to withstand. Maybe soon, there will be at least some little satisfaction for them seeing Chris tried, convicted and sentenced. I hope that the sentencing is accompanied by the judge giving Chris a ration, and that he gives the family an opportunity to do so as well.
I don't blame Sheri's cousin for feeling angry. My guess is that the mortuary and cemetery gave their services and the plot due to the Coleman parents being a part of that community, I sure wish I knew. Do you know if there has been any other headstones placed?
When I look at the pictures of the stones that were first placed (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=36949526&PIpi=17860505) and think about how money was solicited, I think, "Yes, and what was done with it?" I don't think anyone went overboard with expense on marking the graves. Those stones make me incredibly sad for some reason.
I think I remember reading a comment on a news site that someone else was upset about that too! Does anyone else remember? I need to get the cobwebs out of my head on this case.
I believe it was reported that they collected money. Yes, yes, yes it was!! Sorry it just dawned on me where I had gotten this information ;). It was during the time of the civil trial. Sheri's family's lawyer requested Grace Church's collection paperwork (can't think of the right wording), so they would know about how much people donated at the funeral and if it actually went directly to funeral costs or if it went elsewhere.
I will go search for a link
ETA
Ok here is a link to an article I found in the Media thread for this case
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links - NO DISCUSSION
After the murders, Chris Coleman's father's church collected money to help pay for the funerals. But Jack Carey, an attorney representing her family, wants an accounting of the collections gathered at the May 9 wake and funeral at Grace Church Ministries in Chester. Carey says he was contacted by a donor who was concerned about where the money was going. Another donor stopped payment on a check made to the same fund out of simiar concerns.
"We were chagrined at this revelation of this fund and understand it is a sizable amount," Carey said to The Belleville News-Democrat. "I just wonder where that money went and whether it is being used to benefit Christopher Coleman." <snipped>
CCmakes3
04-16-2011, 01:08 PM
Hello CCmakes3,
Thanks for hopping in and joining us. Please give our care and condolences to Sheri's cousin. The pain and anger her family members feel must be so hard to withstand. Maybe soon, there will be at least some little satisfaction for them seeing Chris tried, convicted and sentenced. I hope that the sentencing is accompanied by the judge giving Chris a ration, and that he gives the family an opportunity to do so as well.
I don't blame Sheri's cousin for feeling angry. My guess is that the mortuary and cemetery gave their services and the plot due to the Coleman parents being a part of that community, I sure wish I knew. Do you know if there has been any other headstones placed?
When I look at the pictures of the stones that were first placed (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=36949526&PIpi=17860505) and think about how money was solicited, I think, "Yes, and what was done with it?" I don't think anyone went overboard with expense on marking the graves. Those stones make me incredibly sad for some reason.
Hi Wrinkles,
Those headstones are a joke. I can't even describe the emotional response I have when I look at them. It is somewhere between rage and despair. I think Sheri's family probably has plans to replace them at some point but are waiting for the resolution of the civil suit. I can understand why they might want to just leave everything as it is during the criminal trial. Seeing the headstones that Chris chose for his beloved family can only be one more nail in his pathetic coffin.
Kimster
04-16-2011, 01:55 PM
Hi Wrinkles,
Those headstones are a joke. I can't even describe the emotional response I have when I look at them. It is somewhere between rage and despair. I think Sheri's family probably has plans to replace them at some point but are waiting for the resolution of the civil suit. I can understand why they might want to just leave everything as it is during the criminal trial. Seeing the headstones that Chris chose for his beloved family can only be one more nail in his pathetic coffin.
I was hoping you were going to say they would be replaced. Coleman doesn't have one ounce of compassion in his veins. And I'm sure his attraction to Lintz was 100% physical.
I pray the family finds enough energy to erase anything his hands touched in regards to Sheri and the boys. :furious:
stmarysmead
04-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Did you notice on the memorial page posted above...that it says Sheri was PRECEDED in death by her two sons.
Oh, dear God, grant her to have been spared that.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=36949526
ynotdivein
04-16-2011, 03:13 PM
Did you notice on the memorial page posted above...that it says Sheri was PRECEDED in death by her two sons.
Oh, dear God, grant her to have been spared that.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=36949526
Oh, stmarysmead, I did not notice that until you pointed it out. This whole thing is just wrenching. Beyond words.
panthera
04-16-2011, 03:26 PM
Did you notice on the memorial page posted above...that it says Sheri was PRECEDED in death by her two sons.
Oh, dear God, grant her to have been spared that.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=36949526
I hadn't realized that is what the ME determined, however, if true, what kind of monster could kill two innocent children before killing the adult. One would normally think of killing the children as something done after killing Sheri so as not to have them be able to identify the killer; not the other way around. Totally premeditated and heinous. MOO
ynotdivein
04-16-2011, 03:46 PM
I've just been poking around trying to find some official verification of this idea and have had no luck so far... Hard to type this but I'd assumed that he "got rid of" Sheri first because he is a coward who would not have wanted her to fight him in defense of her babies.
CCmakes3
04-16-2011, 04:31 PM
I've just been poking around trying to find some official verification of this idea and have had no luck so far... Hard to type this but I'd assumed that he "got rid of" Sheri first because he is a coward who would not have wanted her to fight him in defense of her babies.
I had always assumed that too, but when you think about it, what match would she have been for him anyway? She seemed so slender and petite.
Perhaps he despised Sheri so much that he didn't care if she happened to wake up and witness the execution of her babies, but he had a tiny twinge of guilt about the prospect of the boys witnessing their mother's killing?
Never mind...I forgot who I was talking about for a second. With a monster like CC, it's probably as simple as him killing them in the order of his hatred for them. I've even wondered if the boy he wrote the vulgar slurs on was perhaps a bit more "mommy's boy" than the other. I would not bethe least bit surprised. Truly unspeakable.
panthera
04-16-2011, 05:16 PM
I've just been poking around trying to find some official verification of this idea and have had no luck so far... Hard to type this but I'd assumed that he "got rid of" Sheri first because he is a coward who would not have wanted her to fight him in defense of her babies.
I always thought the same thing. The greatest danger is usually taken out first, that being the adult, before killing the children. MOO
Kimster
04-21-2011, 01:18 AM
Here's an interesting article we can chew on while waiting for the trial to begin:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/pat-gauen/cf44d1f4-ef54-5f7e-b3d6-690d9ed67c71.html
robinparten
04-21-2011, 07:28 AM
Here's an interesting article we can chew on while waiting for the trial to begin:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/pat-gauen/cf44d1f4-ef54-5f7e-b3d6-690d9ed67c71.html
Thanks for the article. As always, it is not one single piece of circumstantial evidence that spells guilt, but rather, it is all the pieces together that will lead to the logical conclusion of guilt. Jurors generally get that, and I am sure the prosecutor will point that out.
And, as in all these cases (Scott Peterson, etc), I always wonder why the accused doesn't put his financial resources (and his family's) towards finding the real killer? If I didn't do it, but circumstantial evidence pointed towards me, I'd try like hell to find the real killer since that would be the only definitive way to find me innocent. And it would bring justice to my loved ones.
Perhaps there is a serial killer out there targeting women who are spouses of men having affairs, who want out of their marriages but who don't want to pay the financial and social price for being an a**hole to their beautiful, loving spouses and children. And this serial killer is so smart as to be able to setup the spouse for the crime. Now there's a defense for you!
stmarysmead
04-21-2011, 01:04 PM
We also must believe that someone who wanted to hurt a famous televangelist would not go after her, or her, children, or her grandchildren, or any of her extended family...nor even one of her executives.
No, this person targeting this televangelist wouldn't even go after her mid-level security guy.
Instead her is going to bring her to her knees emotionally by killing the security guy's..um-m-m-m...wife and kids. This is Chris theory of this triple murder?
Phul-leeze.
Obviously, this Famous Televangelist would not have her emotional life destroyed; indeed, she didn't even take off work to testify at the trial.
This strains credibility big time.
Wrinkles
04-21-2011, 01:33 PM
Hello RobinP,
Yeah, and this serial killer probably sent CC the offers for the credit cards he had with his girlfriend, and maybe the serial killer found out the card number while fishing around in the mail box and charged those Disneyland tickets on it. Maybe he sent CC brochures for a cruise too.
Hmmm...this makes me think about something that Sheri evidently told her girlfriend...
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/colemanfrienddoc.PDF
Per Chris...bottom of page 5, January 2009...about one of the threat letters that arrived in the mail: "We asked him if he thought it was serious and he said no -- just some crackpot." and "...Chris said he reported it..." (he "said" he did). P. 6 "Again while we were at their house, Chris brought up the threat letter and how Dave and Joyce offered to pay for a security system to be installed in his house."
Some serial killers don't like security systems -- What's the chances Chris actually told them? IF he told them and if they offered a system as a result of his telling them, he didn't let them get it for him. Wonder why not?
Page 6
Hmmm... La Plante mentions that at the end of the Florida trip (Chris isn't home yet from the trip)...Chris is said to have called Sheri and told her "it was over" (as in their marriage), he was leaving her as soon as he got home. At that point, she (Sheri) was mentioned to have called one of CC's employers to talk them about it.
La Plante states that CC's employers called him down (at the hotel?) and spoke with him...
"They told him that he would have to have marriage counseling and if he would not be willing to work through this that they would have to reassign him to another position."
IF the above is true, then I'm reading that CC was told, "If you can't work this situation out, and IF you end up divorcing your wife, we will have to reassign you to another position" NOT "We're going to fire you."
After the talk, evidently (La Plante mentions), "Chris called Sheri and really exploded." Interesting, I guess a guy who had a girlfriend, who had just told his wife that he was leaving her as soon as he got home, and who had just been told by his employers that he would have to be assigned to another position might think that he wouldn't be travelling anymore, as in to the next scheduled rendezvous with his chick? Then again, "obviously" CC worked on plan B -- move the chick to your work place in case you get reassigned to a job with no travel.
Bottom of page 7 (I'm finally getting to what I was first thinking about)
"Chris and Sheri mentioned a video that Chris had taken with his surveillance system that he had installed and said that it was of the "person" putting another letter in his mailbox. We didn't watch it. But Sheri told me they couldn't tell who it was or make any features out as they had on a mask."
SOOOO...where is that video? Do you think that when La Plante mentioned this to LE, they asked Chris for the video so that they could see if they could identify the serial killer? I'm betting he didn't produce a video for them when they requested it.
Now that I think about it, La Plante's mention indicates that Sheri saw that video, because "they couldn't tell who it was." Did Sheri really see a video OR did Chris see it (supposedly) and say, "I couldn't recognize them." Now you would think that if Sheri was not just "wooped" by Chris totally (and she might have been), that she might have said, "Look buddy, I want to see the video, mask or no mask, I want to check out what you caught on film. After all, it is MINE and my kids lives that have been threatened."
Something odd here...hmmm...
Back to the serial killer... Whoever wrote those notes said "I am watching you." Why would a creep wait until a man who traveled a lot was back in town to do the deed? Why not do it when they are away from town? Maybe Chris had a pattern of going to the gym, so the serial killer (yeah right) figured Chris would be gone the few minutes he (the SK) needed to slay the family. That is one brazen SK, did he think that CC might not turnaround and come home to pick up his cup of coffee he forgot? Or that neighbors wouldn't "hear" or "see" something?
That reminds me of the trash cans in the neighborhood... Wasn't it trash day that day? What does LE have that we don't know about?
robinparten
04-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Wrinkles, very interested to see how both the prosecution and defense present their cases. When does the case start, and will it be televised?
stmarysmead
04-21-2011, 02:23 PM
Excellent, Wrinkles!
Now I'm just speculating here but remember Tara had been back to the area house-hunting with Chris at one point. There is also a mention that someone posted on Sheri's Facebook..."You don't deserve Chris." There was mention of Sheri shutting down her Facebook account because someone hacked into it.
And there is Tara's admission that Chris let her hear some of his discussions with his wife..I imagine speaker phone???
Were these two into tormenting Sherri into leaving? Were they into these "tricks" together? Sure sounds like the new girlfriend telling the wife.."You don't deserve" her own husband.
So if there was a video of the Stalker...was it Tara? Disguised and grainy, of course. Did they make it together when Tara came up to house-hunt?
Maybe Tara thought it was just "fun" tormenting Sherri...and a help to speed things up since her wedding plans were underway..but Chris had it figured out differently. He was creating the alibi he needed.
Even if he could get a divorce...Tara was an expensive plaything. How was he going to start a new family and buy her a house and take her on cruises...with that unwanted old wife and kids draining his paycheck?
Wonder what Tara has told them...
Brian5671
04-21-2011, 03:33 PM
another odd tidbit I heard early on somewhere that CC cooked a "last supper" the night before and it was noted to be odd since he never cooked dinner....it's these little things even, that once added up will likely toss him into the slammer forever.
-
trial starts monday for the poster above wondering (4/25)
panthera
04-21-2011, 08:29 PM
Here's an interesting article we can chew on while waiting for the trial to begin:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/pat-gauen/cf44d1f4-ef54-5f7e-b3d6-690d9ed67c71.html
Definitely a good read, Kimster!
Back in the beginning, just this part caused me to believe in his guilt:
" Christopher Coleman, now 34, said they were alive when he left for a south St. Louis County gym at 5:43 a.m. Alarmed that nobody answered the phone about 7 a.m., he called a neighbor, who found the bodies."
Who would be panicking an hour and fifteen minutes after going to the gym, when only one phone call went unanswered. Normally you'd think they could be in the bathroom, and try calling again in a few minutes. Or just go home if you were that worried since you were only a few minutes away. But send a neighbor over? Oh, that's right - you want the neighbor to find the dead bodies and spray painted walls which only an hour and fifteen minutes ago were very much alive and the house pristine. The "real killer" must have been parked right outside the house waiting!! :rolleyes: MOO
Snipped.....
Now that I think about it, La Plante's mention indicates that Sheri saw that video, because "they couldn't tell who it was." Did Sheri really see a video OR did Chris see it (supposedly) and say, "I couldn't recognize them." Now you would think that if Sheri was not just "wooped" by Chris totally (and she might have been), that she might have said, "Look buddy, I want to see the video, mask or no mask, I want to check out what you caught on film. After all, it is MINE and my kids lives that have been threatened."
Something odd here...hmmm...
Back to the serial killer... Whoever wrote those notes said "I am watching you." Why would a creep wait until a man who traveled a lot was back in town to do the deed? Why not do it when they are away from town? Maybe Chris had a pattern of going to the gym, so the serial killer (yeah right) figured Chris would be gone the few minutes he (the SK) needed to slay the family. That is one brazen SK, did he think that CC might not turnaround and come home to pick up his cup of coffee he forgot? Or that neighbors wouldn't "hear" or "see" something?
That reminds me of the trash cans in the neighborhood... Wasn't it trash day that day? What does LE have that we don't know about?
Yes, it was trash day, there was news videos of detectives going through the trashcans. As for this video of someone putting something in the mailbox...I have a really hard time believing that there was actual video footage. The town on Columbia is a town FULL of noisy people who are constantly watching out their windows. The Coleman's lived in a very busy neighborhood that has a good mix of retired elderly people and stay at home mom's. I am not sure Chris would risk have a masked person put something in his mailbox. And if Sheri actually saw the video, I would think she would insist it be turned over to the PD or even the neighbor cop across the street. Surely if the PD received a video of a masked person putting something in the mailbox they would have investigated it. IMO, there was no video, that was just part of Chris' plan.
Maybe Tara thought it was just "fun" tormenting Sherri...and a help to speed things up since her wedding plans were underway..but Chris had it figured out differently. He was creating the alibi he needed.
I totally think Tara took some pleasure in Sheri's pain. We know that Sheri knew about Chris' affair and that she knew it was Tara. I imagine Tara also knew she knew and knew she was fighting to save her marriage, which probably infuriated Tara.
another odd tidbit I heard early on somewhere that CC cooked a "last supper" the night before and it was noted to be odd since he never cooked dinner....it's these little things even, that once added up will likely toss him into the slammer forever.
-
trial starts monday for the poster above wondering (4/25)
I also recall hearing this tidbit of information. Wasn't this one of the factors that led to the Coroner having toxic screenings done?
Kimster
04-21-2011, 09:09 PM
Hello RobinP,
Yeah, and this serial killer probably sent CC the offers for the credit cards he had with his girlfriend, and maybe the serial killer found out the card number while fishing around in the mail box and charged those Disneyland tickets on it. Maybe he sent CC brochures for a cruise too.
Hmmm...this makes me think about something that Sheri evidently told her girlfriend...
http://images.bimedia.net/documents/colemanfrienddoc.PDF
Per Chris...bottom of page 5, January 2009...about one of the threat letters that arrived in the mail: "We asked him if he thought it was serious and he said no -- just some crackpot." and "...Chris said he reported it..." (he "said" he did). P. 6 "Again while we were at their house, Chris brought up the threat letter and how Dave and Joyce offered to pay for a security system to be installed in his house."
Some serial killers don't like security systems -- What's the chances Chris actually told them? IF he told them and if they offered a system as a result of his telling them, he didn't let them get it for him. Wonder why not?
Page 6
Hmmm... La Plante mentions that at the end of the Florida trip (Chris isn't home yet from the trip)...Chris is said to have called Sheri and told her "it was over" (as in their marriage), he was leaving her as soon as he got home. At that point, she (Sheri) was mentioned to have called one of CC's employers to talk them about it.
La Plante states that CC's employers called him down (at the hotel?) and spoke with him...
"They told him that he would have to have marriage counseling and if he would not be willing to work through this that they would have to reassign him to another position."
IF the above is true, then I'm reading that CC was told, "If you can't work this situation out, and IF you end up divorcing your wife, we will have to reassign you to another position" NOT "We're going to fire you."
After the talk, evidently (La Plante mentions), "Chris called Sheri and really exploded." Interesting, I guess a guy who had a girlfriend, who had just told his wife that he was leaving her as soon as he got home, and who had just been told by his employers that he would have to be assigned to another position might think that he wouldn't be travelling anymore, as in to the next scheduled rendezvous with his chick? Then again, "obviously" CC worked on plan B -- move the chick to your work place in case you get reassigned to a job with no travel.
Bottom of page 7 (I'm finally getting to what I was first thinking about)
"Chris and Sheri mentioned a video that Chris had taken with his surveillance system that he had installed and said that it was of the "person" putting another letter in his mailbox. We didn't watch it. But Sheri told me they couldn't tell who it was or make any features out as they had on a mask."
SOOOO...where is that video? Do you think that when La Plante mentioned this to LE, they asked Chris for the video so that they could see if they could identify the serial killer? I'm betting he didn't produce a video for them when they requested it.
Now that I think about it, La Plante's mention indicates that Sheri saw that video, because "they couldn't tell who it was." Did Sheri really see a video OR did Chris see it (supposedly) and say, "I couldn't recognize them." Now you would think that if Sheri was not just "wooped" by Chris totally (and she might have been), that she might have said, "Look buddy, I want to see the video, mask or no mask, I want to check out what you caught on film. After all, it is MINE and my kids lives that have been threatened."
Something odd here...hmmm...
Back to the serial killer... Whoever wrote those notes said "I am watching you." Why would a creep wait until a man who traveled a lot was back in town to do the deed? Why not do it when they are away from town? Maybe Chris had a pattern of going to the gym, so the serial killer (yeah right) figured Chris would be gone the few minutes he (the SK) needed to slay the family. That is one brazen SK, did he think that CC might not turnaround and come home to pick up his cup of coffee he forgot? Or that neighbors wouldn't "hear" or "see" something?
That reminds me of the trash cans in the neighborhood... Wasn't it trash day that day? What does LE have that we don't know about?
:goodpost:
I thoroughly enjoyed the points made here, Wrinkles!
Wrinkles
04-21-2011, 09:35 PM
I'm not sure how anyone will believe any sincerity in Chris, what?, calling to "check on" the family or "wake" the family or what, to have Sheri get his breakfast ready (i.e. okay, I'm heading home and I'm famished)?
You would have to believe that Sheri didn't know how to wake the children for school (it was a school day?) when Chris was out of town working or cavorting? She didn't have a natural clock or alarm clock? Did LE find a clock by the bedside? What was the clock set to? Had it gone off? Did the boys have clocks? Were they set? Did they go off?
Sheri's friend said she was a responsible mom and went to their events. Seems like a responsible mom would know how to function with timing and without a "wake up" call. Did Sheri have a visible schedule in the house, get up at X o'clock, to bus/school at X o'clock?
We looked at where the children went to school, didn't we? Did we learn that Sheri drove the children to school or do we know if they took a bus? Again, bus or driving, seems Sheri would know how to time herself without a husband around.
So why would there be a "check in" call? He was gone a short while, how long did he plan on being gone? How long were his gym visits typically? Did he make a "check in" call because someone had a stomach ache from his dinner the night before and he was checking on them? (yeah right)
How about an "I'm just worried" call, due to the threats. Well then why would he tell someone he thought the person was a crackpot type person? Well then why didn't LE get a video showing the person with a mask? Well then why didn't he accept the offer of a security system? Well then why would he leave the house then or ever or not move the family to some place protective?
And "make me breakfast" call... Really? This woman had to get kids ready for school? OR maybe she knew he would expect breakfast? Maybe some of her girlfriends can speak to whether Sheri mentioned "he calls me to tell me what time to have his breakfast on the table after the gym."
Check in call when he had preceded all of this only a month before by "I'm leaving when I get back." Well if you are worried about threats to the family, do you "leave them?"
You have to buy that Sheri didn't know how to function as an adult, that Chris "cared" about the family's well being due to the threats. I can't get there based upon the above.
I "do" believe that Chris set his neighbor up to have to find the bodies. I "do" believe that he meant to come home in the timing that LE would be in the house with the bodies, and that he could play the part of someone "distraught."
Problem... He didn't ask, "My God, what has happened..." You could NOT have kept me out of that house if my family didn't make it (wasn't that the officers words?) I would NOT have been thinking about forensics, I would have been inside thinking LE was wrong and I could help a family member. I would have been screaming, "What do you mean they didn't make it!"
Wrinkles
04-21-2011, 09:45 PM
Noose?
This is really bothering me... Was there really a "noose" found? Was strangulation the real cause of death or was there a preface to the strangulation? We haven't seen the autopsy reports and we don't have answers because we're not supposed to have them yet.
If these beautiful young people's lives were taken by a "noose"... How do you put a noose around someone that is sleeping? Lift their head to slip it over? They don't wake up, they don't shout when they realize what is happening? If they shout, they are not heard?
We are going to be learning some very sad and sickening things. I can imagine a number of things, I'll hold those imaginations back. What we hear will be awful enough.
I'm afraid we are going to hear of
panthera
04-21-2011, 09:51 PM
Re: post #47, Wrinkles - so perfectly stated and worthy of more than just 'thanks'! :clap: Hopefully the State will have something like that in their closing argument. MOO
Another great post, Wrinkles! I would have never thought of the alarm clocks, I hope those types of questions are answered at the trial. It could be another nail in his coffin.
It was a school day. The boys attended Parkview Elementary and the school hours for Parkview are 8 a.m. to 2:55 p.m. I do not recall ever hearing whether or not the boys rode the bus, but I do recall some news coverage that showed a bus at the end of the street on the day of the murders. I cannot be sure if that pic/video was taken in the morning, mid-day, or afternoon. I imagine that if they rode the bus their pick up time would have been somewhere around 7:30-7:50. The school is about a mile from their home and with the amount of children in the neighborhood there probably wasn't any stops outside of Columbia Lakes.
Noose?
This is really bothering me... Was there really a "noose" found? Was strangulation the real cause of death or was there a preface to the strangulation? We haven't seen the autopsy reports and we don't have answers because we're not supposed to have them yet.
If these beautiful young people's lives were taken by a "noose"... How do you put a noose around someone that is sleeping? Lift their head to slip it over? They don't wake up, they don't shout when they realize what is happening? If they shout, they are not heard?
We are going to be learning some very sad and sickening things. I can imagine a number of things, I'll hold those imaginations back. What we hear will be awful enough.
I'm afraid we are going to hear of
Where did you get the noose info from? I feel like I heard this early on, but I can't remember if was actually in an article or if I read it in the comment section.
who knew?
04-21-2011, 11:42 PM
Didn't we hear about zip ties? I have wondered if they were slipped around the neck and locked in - they wouldn't have come loose, and it probably would have been quick. But Wrinkles, you have a great point. The kids and Sheri may have been medicated at dinner - I know TOD was way earlier than 7 am, but do I remember someone saying it could have been as early as midnight - 2 am?
I just can't see how a jury could find him innocent, or find reasonable doubt. There are so many UNreasonable explanations made by Chris. You'd think someone who had been planning this for months would have not made so many mistakes - indicates to me that he is someone who thinks he's smarter than everyone else.
Wrinkles
04-22-2011, 01:55 AM
Hiya friends,
CCup, your mind is working well in bringing back reminders and info. You asked about the noose.
Here is one article... Do they have their facts straight? (http://www.carmitimes.com/topstories/x396828138/Did-Christopher-Coleman-strangle-his-wife-and-children)
>>Investigators have said the victims were strangled with a ligature, perhaps a cord. Police say they found orange twine fashioned into a noose near a Mississippi River bridge that would have been along Coleman's route to the gym, and that it resembled cord tied around straw bales behind the Coleman home.<<
Here is another article from BND.com (http://www.bnd.com/2009/07/24/856180/coleman-lawyers-to-get-major-case.html#storylink=misearch)
>>Detectives investigating the killings found an orange piece of twine with a noose tied on one end near the Jefferson Barracks Bridge that resembled twine used to tie four bales of hay found behind the Colemans' home.<<
WhoKnew, it seems there might have been a discussion about zip ties... Yes, they were discussed in here, but for some reason one of the posters at that time -- someone who lived in the immediate area and who seemed to know some things (but was later banned :( -- wrote that zip ties were not used (as if they somehow knew what was used.) Check out post 280.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84312&page=12
I guess the question is, did they know what was used in order to know what wasn't used? The hay bale twine came up maybe around that time? Security people keep these ties around, right? i.e. to restrain people's hands/feet if necessary? Like hand cuffs?
Post 148, one of the posters on May 18th, 2009 wrote: (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84312&page=6)
>>There is a reason the caskets were closed. I'm sorry I can't reveal why but there is. <<
That thread has a lot of information in it, there may have been some people in it who knew a little bit of something from local authorities but who knows...
The closed caskets remind me that there was word that Sheri's jaw was broken. Again, we will hear far more when court begins. I think that what is already obvious will be far more obvious when the trial begins.
who knew?
04-22-2011, 03:50 AM
Thanks Wrinkles! I had totally forgot about that poster - yes, she had a lot of info. Wish we knew what she knows.
Actually, in the beginning, a lot of people were posting who seemed to have a lot of info, but don't know if we'll ever hear from them again. And then, I'm not sure what was true info, what was rumor, and what was wishful thinking.
The guy from Texas seemed very intent about the zip ties - I'm thinking that is where I had zip ties in my head. Wish I had time to go back and read all the posts from old threads. Maybe some of our previous posters (including neighbors of Chris and Sheri) will get back on here when the trial begins. They were very helpful!
GolferChick
04-22-2011, 03:13 PM
Hi fellow websleuthers -- justice for Sheri and her boys starts on Monday...
Thought you might enjoy reading this overview of how the prosecution and defense teams will present their theories and "reasonable doubt".
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/columns/pat-gauen/article_cf44d1f4-ef54-5f7e-b3d6-690d9ed67c71.html
Have a wonderful Easter weekend (He lives!)
Sorry Kimster; you were way ahead of me in posting this article!!!
Thanks Wrinkles, I thought that the noose thing had been published but I wasn't sure if I had heard that from a news outlet or another source.
The broken jaw thing also has me wondering if that were speculation or if we knew that for fact. I guess we will soon find out.
Didn't we hear about zip ties? I have wondered if they were slipped around the neck and locked in - they wouldn't have come loose, and it probably would have been quick. But Wrinkles, you have a great point. The kids and Sheri may have been medicated at dinner - I know TOD was way earlier than 7 am, but do I remember someone saying it could have been as early as midnight - 2 am?
I just can't see how a jury could find him innocent, or find reasonable doubt. There are so many UNreasonable explanations made by Chris. You'd think someone who had been planning this for months would have not made so many mistakes - indicates to me that he is someone who thinks he's smarter than everyone else.
In the beginning, I so thought he had to drugged them with this whole dinner thing. I was certain he had! But the toxicology reports came back clean on them.
I also cannot understand how he seemed to have planned this for so long, yet he made so many crucial mistakes. I wonder if maybe he snapped or something happened that made him rush the actual murders. Like maybe he wasn't planning on doing it just yet, but then Sheri got mad about something or found out about something or maybe pressure from Tara made him commit the murders sooner then he had originally planned.
Coleman: Loving family man or killer?
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/illinois/article_6842c7e6-ee11-5345-820e-d014c91719c8.html
vBulletin® v3.8.1, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
0