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imamaze
05-05-2011, 09:57 PM
Holly Lynn Bobo was last seen early on the morning of April 13, 2011, outside of her home in Darden, Tennessee. She was seen being led away from the carport of her home toward a wooded area by a man described as approximately 5'8" to 6'0" tall and 200 pounds, wearing camouflage clothing.
Holly Lynn Bobo was last seen wearing a pink shirt and light blue jeans.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/image_thumb http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/bobo_h3.jpg/image_thumb

Thread #1 Thread #2

Thread #3 Thread #4

Thread #5 Thread #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6353943&posted=1#post6353943)

Thread #7 Thread #8

Thread #9 Thread #10

Thread #11 Thread #12

Thread #13 Thread #14

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Thread #17 Thread #18

Thread #19 Thread #20

Thread #21

-RUMORS are not allowed and will be removed.
-It's fine to discuss the brother and anyone mentioned in the media and tied to this case. Its not ok to talk about him or anyone as a suspect or POI. No one has been named as such.
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Rules Etiquette & Information
STOP FLINGING MUD AT HOLLY'S FAMILY REGARDING THE T-SHIRTS! End of story.

Professional Posters & Verified Locals/Insiders

Holly Bobo Map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=218199748434644937742.0004a0e4115bf271e54ae&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.679217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17)
Created by Hollye Thanks!

Some blog sites are not allowed to be linked to because of so many rumors being posted on them. Please pm a Mod if its not posted below to see if they are allowed.
The following blog sites are allowed to be linked to:
Case Signal (BeanE's site)
Val - The Hinky Meter
Amandareckonwth's case archive site - Crankycrankerson
Patty G's Video Library site
Please continue here!

Bilas
05-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Can someone please clarify this for me:

The brother said he heard a scream and looked out the window and saw Holly being led or forced into the woods? I'm sorry but if this is true wouldn't you run out there and see what was going on? I have 5 sisters and if this happened I would be running out to make sure everything was ok.

SNOWINMEMPHIS
05-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Can someone please clarify this for me:

The brother said he heard a scream and looked out the window and saw Holly being led or forced into the woods? I'm sorry but if this is true wouldn't you run out there and see what was going on? I have 5 sisters and if this happened I would be running out to make sure everything was ok.

IIRC her brother never said he heard a scream. Just that he saw her walking into the woods with a man in camo that he thought was her boyfriend.
There were reports that a neighbor heard a scream, but TBI agent Helm (I believe that's her name) said she was unaware of the neighbor hearing anything or calling 911.
JMO

Irish_Eyes
05-05-2011, 10:45 PM
Bilas - He did not hear a scream, the neighbor did. He saw Holly being led into the woods...initial reports of "dragged" were incorrect....He did not get a good look at the person and actually thought her boyfriend was leading her into the woods. Locals on here have confirmed that it is turkey hunting season in TN which is both a popular activity and something undertaken in the early morning. Therefore, they assured us that it would be a pretty normal thing if your boyfriend had been hunting at that time of morning and was still wearing his camo and wanted to show you his prize....we're thinking Clint assumed something along those lines. It was only later when he went outside and saw that her car was still there and noticed blood that he became alarmed according to reports. There is confusion about who called 911. The brother did, but also someone else. There have been accounts that after the neighbor heard the scream she called the mother at the school who called him and told him to check on Holly....other reports seem to suggest he went outside later on his own, noticed these things and then called 911 and also called his mom....it is known that someone called the mom because she left the school and LE stated she was there when they arrived.

Bilas
05-05-2011, 10:56 PM
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

jabberwocky
05-05-2011, 10:57 PM
an interesting description of a suspect in local home invasions in this article link:

Police Looking For Burglary Suspect
3/2/11
Investigators are searching for a suspect they say is breaking into area homes in broad daylight.
The suspect is described as a white male, around five feet, eleven inches to six feet tall with a stocky build, ruddy complexion and sandy brown hair.
Sheriff Wyatt says the suspect is also being linked to a number of home invasions in Henderson County
http://www.decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?art=1692

CHARLISA
05-05-2011, 11:15 PM
an interesting description of a suspect in local home invasions in this article link:

Police Looking For Burglary Suspect
3/2/11
Investigators are searching for a suspect they say is breaking into area homes in broad daylight.
The suspect is described as a white male, around five feet, eleven inches to six feet tall with a stocky build, ruddy complexion and sandy brown hair.
Sheriff Wyatt says the suspect is also being linked to a number of home invasions in Henderson County
http://www.decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?art=1692

Well now, this is interesting & creepy:( Description fits our guy, but I wish they would have given some more details. Dates and times would be nice. Also, were these houses in the boonies w/woods behind them?

grandmaj
05-05-2011, 11:19 PM
an interesting description of a suspect in local home invasions in this article link:

Police Looking For Burglary Suspect
3/2/11
Investigators are searching for a suspect they say is breaking into area homes in broad daylight.
The suspect is described as a white male, around five feet, eleven inches to six feet tall with a stocky build, ruddy complexion and sandy brown hair.
Sheriff Wyatt says the suspect is also being linked to a number of home invasions in Henderson County
http://www.decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?art=1692

Good Job Jabber. I've been thinking. :lol: What if LE thinks they have their man in jail already. It could have been for anything random. I wonder if we can see the bookings in the county. If they are listed by day or if you have to have names. It might be an interesting exercise to go back and see who has been arrested.

jabberwocky
05-05-2011, 11:26 PM
Thanks grandmaj:) Wish I knew how to find records, I wonder if Holly surprised him while he was going to break in?

Stolly
05-05-2011, 11:28 PM
an interesting description of a suspect in local home invasions in this article link:

Police Looking For Burglary Suspect
3/2/11
Investigators are searching for a suspect they say is breaking into area homes in broad daylight.
The suspect is described as a white male, around five feet, eleven inches to six feet tall with a stocky build, ruddy complexion and sandy brown hair.
Sheriff Wyatt says the suspect is also being linked to a number of home invasions in Henderson County
http://www.decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?art=1692

I think that there is a chance that LE may have the person in jail for something else. Good work scanning over other crimes, and thanks!

That being said, it's a huge jump between carefully entering someone's house (while your truck is outside), stealing jewelry and carefully sealing the home back up to the HB case.

It appears to be a planned abduction without an apparent immediate mode of escape. You would think the home intrusion perp (who liked nobody to be at home) would at least assume one person is at home if they came upon the house with at least one car still at the residence. The Bobo's had no close-able garage to my knowledge.

Dr. Know?
05-05-2011, 11:30 PM
Oh, and that article from the Examiner said this J Nickell's claimed he lived 3 houses down from Holly's house. I wonder if there's an empty home there? Aren't there several houses empty around Holly's? Could he also be breaking in homes and robbing people? Maybe that's his employment. LOL

I wish I hadn't read that dumb article now. I'll be better by the morning I'm sure.

cluciano63
05-05-2011, 11:41 PM
Oh, and that article from the Examiner said this J Nickell's claimed he lived 3 houses down from Holly's house. I wonder if there's an empty home there? Aren't there several houses empty around Holly's? Could he also be breaking in homes and robbing people? Maybe that's his employment. LOL

I wish I hadn't read that dumb article now. I'll be better by the morning I'm sure.

If he doesn't live anywhere near Holly, it is even stranger/scarier, as he is putting himself in the area...maybe in case he or his car had been seen?

shefner
05-06-2011, 12:00 AM
The comment was made in the recent news article that Nickel's home was about 22 miles from the Bobo's home by the road...but could be reached within 15 minutes through the woods, by a person familiar with the area. That gave me pause.

Surely LE has walked through the woods in Nickel's direction.

T4Tide
05-06-2011, 12:23 AM
I was new to WS before the HB case, but have now read through a good bit of the missing persons cases here. I noticed that in a good many of them, the reports usually contain:

1. where they were last seen and who saw them last
2. what they were last wearing
3. belongings they might have had with them. A great percentage of cases state whether they had their cell phones/wallets/ID/credit cards with them and whether there was any activity on these items after the last sighting
4. mood/personality of the victim. I notice cases specifying that the person's last FB status, tweet, or other mood indicator is shared, along with any personal interaction with the persons last seeing them, such as "She left in a good mood just like every morning." or "The victim was last seen arguing with a family member/friend, etc."

Is it common for cases to only cover 1 & 2, and leave out details regarding 3 & 4? I'm not finding many cases that haven't reported that the missing person's cell phone location. Of course, I realize LE might have very good reasons to contain said information, but I just wish we knew if she had been recently distraught, what her last FB/social networking statements were, and what belongings she is thought to have with her.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 12:24 AM
I wish LE would say he was ruled out for sure, in some way. He seems to meet the criteria pretty well, also the "description" issued. But it's not good news at all, if he is the one.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 12:26 AM
I was new to WS before the HB case, but have now read through a good bit of the missing persons cases here. I noticed that in a good many of them, the reports usually contain:

1. where they were last seen and who saw them last
2. what they were last wearing
3. belongings they might have had with them. A great percentage of cases state whether they had their cell phones/wallets/ID/credit cards with them and whether there was any activity on these items after the last sighting
4. mood/personality of the victim. I notice cases specifying that the person's last FB status, tweet, or other mood indicator is shared, along with any personal interaction with the persons last seeing them, such as "She left in a good mood just like every morning." or "The victim was last seen arguing with a family member/friend, etc."

Is it common for cases to only cover 1 & 2, and leave out details regarding 3 & 4? I'm not finding many cases that haven't reported that the missing person's cell phone location. Of course, I realize LE might have very good reasons to contain said information, but I just wish we knew if she had been recently distraught, what her last FB/social networking statements were, and what belongings she is thought to have with her.

Welcome to WS...
And no, it is not common for LE to withhold quite so much as they are in this case; they did tell searchers to be on the look out for various items, a purse, books, a phone, but nothing was described and no photos of similar objects displayed as is sometimes done. Also it is kind of unusual not to know where she had last been, ie Tuesday evening, that sort of thing. We all hope there is good reason to hold back so much in this case...but are beginning to wonder, at least I am.

Irish_Eyes
05-06-2011, 12:53 AM
I wish LE would say he was ruled out for sure, in some way. He seems to meet the criteria pretty well, also the "description" issued. But it's not good news at all, if he is the one.

Lots of times even when LE has identified a suspect it can take a while to nail them down....Scott Peterson for example....so they could be looking at this guy. Wish we had a atty on this thread like there are in some others, but I think once LE identifies a person as a suspect the procedures change and there are certain rights afforded to suspects....so even if they like him for this there may be a reason for not naming him....

Something just hit me today. My husband used to be a service/delivery tech for a bottled water company. He drove all over several counties here in Ohio as his territory fixing coolers....coolers in businesses, coolers in private residences...and also hospitals since they use them when they need water to be sterile. Because of this, my husband knows how to get anywhere around here....he's better than GPS, lol....this could be a person who drives around all day on his job...service tech, salesman, etc. Someone like that could know many areas well and might be able to troll for a potential victim during the day while actually driving around on their job.

So, along these lines....the house that is for sale....whether it's occupied or not, lots of people try to spruce up properties they are trying to sell...and spring is the time to do it....could this be a roofer, landscaper, etc. who was working at that property who first saw her that way?

Irish_Eyes
05-06-2011, 01:06 AM
IMPORTANT - safety tip I just came up with today and thought I'd share:

If you are a Droid user I strongly suggest downloading the app Plan B. It is a free app. I lost my phone yesterday and I couldn't find it anywhere....I was going to have to start retracing all the places I had been and tearing my whole house apart when I decided to see if there was any kind of locate app I could use. Sure enough I was able to go to the Droid marketplace and download plan b to my phone without actually having my phone. Once the app downloaded it sent a message to my e-mail with the GPS location of my phone...if will send you several messages over the next ten minutes if your phone moves. (My phone had somehow fallen under my daughter's carseat when I was getting her in/out of the car....would never have looked there!) So once it showed my house I at least knew I hadn't left it at a restaurant or store, etc. If you want to track it beyond the ten minutes you just borrow someone else's phone and text "locate" to your phone and it does it all over again.

Although it's meant to find your phone, think about how useful this would have been if Holly had had a Droid and LE had been able to do this and access her e-mail in that first hour! So I think I'm telling all my girl friends to download this app and give your e-mail password to one trusted person, husband, mom, sister, etc. This could really save lives!

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 01:32 AM
IMPORTANT - safety tip I just came up with today and thought I'd share:

If you are a Droid user I strongly suggest downloading the app Plan B. It is a free app. I lost my phone yesterday and I couldn't find it anywhere....I was going to have to start retracing all the places I had been and tearing my whole house apart when I decided to see if there was any kind of locate app I could use. Sure enough I was able to go to the Droid marketplace and download plan b to my phone without actually having my phone. Once the app downloaded it sent a message to my e-mail with the GPS location of my phone...if will send you several messages over the next ten minutes if your phone moves. (My phone had somehow fallen under my daughter's carseat when I was getting her in/out of the car....would never have looked there!) So once it showed my house I at least knew I hadn't left it at a restaurant or store, etc. If you want to track it beyond the ten minutes you just borrow someone else's phone and text "locate" to your phone and it does it all over again.

Although it's meant to find your phone, think about how useful this would have been if Holly had had a Droid and LE had been able to do this and access her e-mail in that first hour! So I think I'm telling all my girl friends to download this app and give your e-mail password to one trusted person, husband, mom, sister, etc. This could really save lives!

What a GREAT idea! Thank you so much for sharing. I'm going to share this with my FB friends.

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 01:55 AM
As far as I know, the item that was found has not been released to the public. All that's been reported is that it was a "significant" find.

When I went into town on Wednesday, I was told by some locals that the cell phone was found in a rock quarry....I wouldn't take that as gospel, and don't know what "significance" it would have one way or the other.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 02:03 AM
I don't understand why the phone would be such a huge find either. Most likely the battery had been dead for days, as they found it on Day 11 or 12 of the search. Would it show pings as it passed towers in the early days of the abduction?

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 04:03 AM
I have zero experience in searching for sex offenders. I've been trying all night to search for the subject we've been talking about. I know that he WAS in the TBI database, but he's not there any longer. Is it because he is currently being held on $300,000 bail? Do they remove the SO from the database if they're locked up?

I was able to still locate him at this link -

http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/TNSO005150/Jason-Everett-Nickell.html

His offenses are listed as:
Offense/Statute: INDECENCY W/CHILD BY EXPOSUREDate: 01 August 1995
Offense/Statute: INDECENCYWITH A CHILD 3RD DEGREEDate: 21 August 1995

IIRC, he has been listed here as violent. Do these charges indicate violence? Perhaps there are more charges that I am just not able to see?

Is there somewhere to go to read about the specifics of these offenses?

THANK YOU!

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 05:24 AM
IMPORTANT - safety tip I just came up with today and thought I'd share:

If you are a Droid user I strongly suggest downloading the app Plan B. It is a free app. I lost my phone yesterday and I couldn't find it anywhere....I was going to have to start retracing all the places I had been and tearing my whole house apart when I decided to see if there was any kind of locate app I could use. Sure enough I was able to go to the Droid marketplace and download plan b to my phone without actually having my phone. Once the app downloaded it sent a message to my e-mail with the GPS location of my phone...if will send you several messages over the next ten minutes if your phone moves. (My phone had somehow fallen under my daughter's carseat when I was getting her in/out of the car....would never have looked there!) So once it showed my house I at least knew I hadn't left it at a restaurant or store, etc. If you want to track it beyond the ten minutes you just borrow someone else's phone and text "locate" to your phone and it does it all over again.

Although it's meant to find your phone, think about how useful this would have been if Holly had had a Droid and LE had been able to do this and access her e-mail in that first hour! So I think I'm telling all my girl friends to download this app and give your e-mail password to one trusted person, husband, mom, sister, etc. This could really save lives!

After posting to my FB page, I was informed that Blackberry has an app called PROTECT.

BeanE
05-06-2011, 07:04 AM
On the Forensic Astrology thread, there is a post that says it was Holly's phone that was found on 4/24, minus the SIM card, which is what they called in searchers to look for. It is stated that this was heard on an open mike. Do we know that for a fact here? (I know we can't talk about the astrology part of the thread, but this is case fact that is posted, or at least posted as a fact.)

I've been unable to find anything to substantiate that.

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 07:11 AM
I've got to do something so I can start sleeping at night....sorry for all the posts, my head is in overload.

I was just thinking that during a normal week, there are three things I can count on...

School bus goes by at 7:05 and 3:15
and the mail person.

If he were laying in wait for her, it had to be around school bus time. I wonder if LE has talked to the school bus drivers.

A couple of other things -

I can't understand why he would have hurt her during the initial encounter and risk having to carry her through the woods if she had become incapacitated??? "Blood spatter" or "blood specks" IMHO does not indicate a cursory wound. AND, if she was only SLIGHTLY bleeding, I think it would have been very difficult to see the blood on the dirt or gravel (or any surface really) UNLESS you were really looking for it. I, myself can't imagine going outside to see if somebody is still at home and noticing small spatters of blood anywhere.

Next thing...The duct tape. If he indeed had a vehicle waiting and she had become incapacitated, perhaps he buckled her into the front seat of the car - you can't very well drive through town with a passenger that has duct tape across her mouth. If she were buckled in, she would likely appear to be sleeping to any cars passing by.

I think that's it for now....at least I HOPE that's it for now.

js190099
05-06-2011, 07:31 AM
Oh, and that article from the Examiner said this J Nickell's claimed he lived 3 houses down from Holly's house. I wonder if there's an empty home there? Aren't there several houses empty around Holly's? Could he also be breaking in homes and robbing people? Maybe that's his employment. LOL

I wish I hadn't read that dumb article now. I'll be better by the morning I'm sure.


The comment was made in the recent news article that Nickel's home was about 22 miles from the Bobo's home by the road...but could be reached within 15 minutes through the woods, by a person familiar with the area. That gave me pause.

Surely LE has walked through the woods in Nickel's direction.

He said he lives 3 doors down, and a local said you can get there in 15 minutes by the woods. I wonder if, going through the woods, he is "3 doors away" from the victim. And of course, the only way he would know this is if he traveled to her house through the woods. Maybe this comment was a slip up? One of the 3 houses could easily be the neighbor who heard the scream and called 911. Just some early morning thoughts I had.

CocoChanel
05-06-2011, 08:09 AM
I can't understand why he would have hurt her during the initial encounter and risk having to carry her through the woods if she had become incapacitated??? "Blood spatter" or "blood specks" IMHO does not indicate a cursory wound. AND, if she was only SLIGHTLY bleeding, I think it would have been very difficult to see the blood on the dirt or gravel (or any surface really) UNLESS you were really looking for it. I, myself can't imagine going outside to see if somebody is still at home and noticing small spatters of blood anywhere.

I think that's it for now....at least I HOPE that's it for now.

....respectfully snipped by me.

I've been thinking the same thing HB. I imagine it would be really hard to see blood "specks" anywhere except against a starkly contrasting background, which doesn't fit the description of most ground surface unless it was snow, or very white sand.

And then, as far as releasing the ID of the blood found - it seems to me that the PERP would know if either he or Holly had been bleeding, or if the blood was part of his plan. AND he knows that LE knows the source by now. So not releasing that info doesn't keep him in the dark about the investigation. I don't see how keeping that clue secret helps find Holly, y'know?

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 08:10 AM
The "Game-Changer"

If the significant find was indeed Holly's cell phone without the SIM card, it could very well be the game-changer they were discussing. It would show that the "evidence" was not being dropped haphazardly, but instead being purposely left in places to throw off the searchers and impede the investigation.

If this is true, the question would be, "WHO called in the tip?"

This would also explain why they called off the volunteer searches. They no longer have a target area.

nursebeeme
05-06-2011, 08:11 AM
search for Holly Bobo continues
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20110506/NEWS01/105060324/Search-Holly-Bobo-continues?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cimg%7CFRONTPAGE


Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Special Agent in Charge John Mehr said there were no new developments in the case on Thursday.

This week, Mehr said there are still no immediate plans to call volunteer search teams back into service.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 08:14 AM
I don't feel this is necessarily an attempted home invasion. He apparently was in the woods and he could have ducked back in if he saw Holly come out. Usually homes are staked out b4 they actually invade the home. So he would know the times of the occupants coming and goings. Not to say that the occupants follow this set schedule daily.

I have a question that I have been mulling over. How many people believe this guy is till in the area? Of course, if you go with the premise he lives in the area he may still be there and have either killed Holly or have her hidden (which I doubt the latter). This could be one reason why they want people to search their properties (not the only reason). He had a jump on them before they actually started searching.

If he had taken a few days off from work, scheduled the time in advance, then he would be someone that people would have hopefully reported....

If he killed her, maybe not intending to do so, he could have hidden her body not in the search area. If he had a car then he could have easily drove an hour or two and disposed (hidden) it in the woods and came back. He could have easily said he was turkey hunting, as he had camo on. If he had an accomplice that also had camo on, the accomplice could have verified his alibi.

Just a few thoughts.......

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 08:16 AM
Somehow I do not think this was a planned burglary gone bad. Usually burglars are not equipped to abduct people and have a vehicle close(er) to put the stuff they stole in. Since LE and the family has said they believe who ever did this had cased the house out, I tend to believe that. But who knows. So little information has been released there could be evidence of a potential burglary, etc that was with held...

BUT that does not mean the suspect has done other crimes.

Going back to the Anne Pressly assault and murder... it was treated as a targeted attack. She was assaulted in her home with no signs of forced entry. Everyone "knew" it had to be someone that picked her specifically. It turns out that unrelated to that murder LE was looking into a suspect, Curtis Vance, who was a petty theft involved in pawning stolen goods and burglaries. LE brought Vance in for questioning and he gave a voluntary DNA swab. Turns out he was their guy in Anne's murder and also an unsolved rape 5 months earlier (it took 5 months to do the rape kit DNA testing).

So in that one, it was really pretty much a random crime. Vance took her lap top and purse but re entered her house for the assault. After the fact, neighbors had reported seeing someone resembling Vance stalking around in the neighborhood looking into yards etc.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 08:18 AM
The "Game-Changer"

If the significant find was indeed Holly's cell phone without the SIM card, it could very well be the game-changer they were discussing. It would show that the "evidence" was not being dropped haphazardly, but instead being purposely left in places to throw off the searchers and impede the investigation.

If this is true, the question would be, "WHO called in the tip?"

Myself I dont buy this planting evidence to throw someone off idea. NO evidence is better than giving them potential evidence. Im not sure how many real life crimes have the suspect going around like the easter bunny leaving clues and red herrings. I suspct its more of a TV plot ploy. Not saying it doesnt happen but already everything found here has been purported to be a plant... fake blood to throw people off... lunch bag dropped in the wrong direction to throw people off...

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 08:29 AM
Myself I dont buy this planting evidence to throw someone off idea. NO evidence is better than giving them potential evidence. Im not sure how many real life crimes have the suspect going around like the easter bunny leaving clues and red herrings. I suspct its more of a TV plot ploy. Not saying it doesnt happen but already everything found here has been purported to be a plant... fake blood to throw people off... lunch bag dropped in the wrong direction to throw people off...

BBM

I don't believe the blood is fake. BUT, I probably do watch way too much TV. :crazy:

not_my_kids
05-06-2011, 08:50 AM
The Tennessee Highway Patrol will conduct a traffic enforcement roadblock today at U.S. 641 in Benton County.

Troopers will concentrate their efforts on vehicles driven by motorists who would violate the law by operating unlicensed or by operating unsafe vehicles within the laws of Tennessee.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20110506/NEWS01/105060324

Likely unconnected, but I thought I'd post.

nursebeeme
05-06-2011, 10:02 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_flooding
no wonder there are no public/volunteer searches.. article above ^^ talks about evacuations in memphis..

it also reminds me of how weather halted the search for Caylee Anthony (although in her case it was a hurricane)

Janeumayer
05-06-2011, 10:05 AM
HappyBonnie, do you know where the rock quarry is located? Just want to check the distance bet. things found. TIA

mrsu
05-06-2011, 10:09 AM
The Tennessee Highway Patrol will conduct a traffic enforcement roadblock today at U.S. 641 in Benton County.

Troopers will concentrate their efforts on vehicles driven by motorists who would violate the law by operating unlicensed or by operating unsafe vehicles within the laws of Tennessee.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20110506/NEWS01/105060324

Likely unconnected, but I thought I'd post.

I don't even get why they would put this out there for the public? Do they have to according to law?

To me it seems like they are saying, "Hey if you are operating an unlicensed or unsafe vehicle we'll be looking for you at US 641 in Benton."

Gee...let's see....how many people that are unlicensed are going to take that route today, unless they are totally dense.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I do not get it.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 10:33 AM
I don't even get why they would put this out there for the public? Do they have to according to law?

To me it seems like they are saying, "Hey if you are operating an unlicensed or unsafe vehicle we'll be looking for you at US 641 in Benton."

Gee...let's see....how many people that are unlicensed are going to take that route today, unless they are totally dense.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I do not get it.

They announce that here when they do DUI road blocks. But half of it isnt to see who they catch when they stop at the check point but to see who turns around and tries to drive away/get around the check point without stopping.

grandmaj
05-06-2011, 10:35 AM
I have zero experience in searching for sex offenders. I've been trying all night to search for the subject we've been talking about. I know that he WAS in the TBI database, but he's not there any longer. Is it because he is currently being held on $300,000 bail? Do they remove the SO from the database if they're locked up?

I was able to still locate him at this link -

http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/TNSO005150/Jason-Everett-Nickell.html

His offenses are listed as:
Offense/Statute: INDECENCY W/CHILD BY EXPOSUREDate: 01 August 1995
Offense/Statute: INDECENCYWITH A CHILD 3RD DEGREEDate: 21 August 1995

IIRC, he has been listed here as violent. Do these charges indicate violence? Perhaps there are more charges that I am just not able to see?

Is there somewhere to go to read about the specifics of these offenses?

THANK YOU!

Have we heard if this Nickell guy worked? It would be interesting to know I think.

Daisyjane
05-06-2011, 10:53 AM
"three doors down" equates to 21-25 miles by road, or 15 minutes cutting through the woods? Also, why would this guy even DISCUSS Holly's disappearance with the auto shop personnel?

a snippet from this linkhttp://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-3-week-wrap-up-we-re-not-giving-up-on-holly

The source reports that Nickell acted "strange, cocky, and hyper." During a conversation about Holly's abduction Nickell allegedly told the shop owner that he lived "three doors down" from the Bobo residence, which, according to news reports and the Tennessee Sexual Offender Registry, is false. The Bobos live on Swan Johnson Road in Darden and Nickell, at that time, lived at 1815 Liberty Church Road in Holladay.

Mapquest shows that the distance between Nickell's residence and the Bobo residence is 21.59 miles via one route, and 25.33 miles another. One local said a person familiar with the woods between the two properties could make it from the Bobo home to the Nickell residence within about 15 minutes.

The incident is said to have occurred sometime after Holly went missing and the time Nickell was incarcerated on April 18.Continue reading on Examiner.com: Holly Bobo Abduction: 3-week wrap-up; ‘We’re not giving up on Holly’ - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-3-week-wrap-up-we-re-not-giving-up-on-holly#ixzz1LaGPoYwl

tfrohning
05-06-2011, 10:59 AM
I don't even get why they would put this out there for the public? Do they have to according to law?

To me it seems like they are saying, "Hey if you are operating an unlicensed or unsafe vehicle we'll be looking for you at US 641 in Benton."

Gee...let's see....how many people that are unlicensed are going to take that route today, unless they are totally dense.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I do not get it.

Here they always tell where the road blocks are...I think because that way someone can't said it entrappement.

tfrohning
05-06-2011, 11:00 AM
"three doors down" equates to 21-25 miles by road, or 15 minutes cutting through the woods? Also, why would this guy even DISCUSS Holly's disappearance with the auto shop personnel?

a snippet from this linkhttp://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-3-week-wrap-up-we-re-not-giving-up-on-holly

The source reports that Nickell acted "strange, cocky, and hyper." During a conversation about Holly's abduction Nickell allegedly told the shop owner that he lived "three doors down" from the Bobo residence, which, according to news reports and the Tennessee Sexual Offender Registry, is false. The Bobos live on Swan Johnson Road in Darden and Nickell, at that time, lived at 1815 Liberty Church Road in Holladay.

Mapquest shows that the distance between Nickell's residence and the Bobo residence is 21.59 miles via one route, and 25.33 miles another. One local said a person familiar with the woods between the two properties could make it from the Bobo home to the Nickell residence within about 15 minutes.
The incident is said to have occurred sometime after Holly went missing and the time Nickell was incarcerated on April 18.Continue reading on Examiner.com: Holly Bobo Abduction: 3-week wrap-up; ‘We’re not giving up on Holly’ - National missing persons | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-3-week-wrap-up-we-re-not-giving-up-on-holly#ixzz1LaGPoYwl

BBm
that interesting wonder who that local was?

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Ok here is a good write up about all the various rumors and fake news stories floating around

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979298108

BeanE
05-06-2011, 11:04 AM
Ok here is a good write up about all the various rumors and fake news stories floating around

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979298108

Oh that's funny. One pay-for-clicks blogger slamming another pay-for-clicks blogger.

Kimster
05-06-2011, 11:07 AM
Ok here is a good write up about all the various rumors and fake news stories floating around

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979298108

Good job peeps! :highfive:

I would be aghast if they said we were perpetuating the rumors out there!

Snowbunny
05-06-2011, 11:08 AM
This was not a case of home invasion gone bad. As one poster pointed out the perp would stake the place out in advance and he would have known their schedules of their comings and goings. If the perp had staked this place out he would have known that Holly was on her way to school and would be gone from the premises in just a few minutes so why would he risk an encounter with her when he knew she was leaving? That makes no sense.

nursebeeme
05-06-2011, 11:10 AM
Oh that's funny. One pay-for-clicks blogger slamming another pay-for-clicks blogger.
exactly~ the article also gave kudos to another site we cannot link here that has posted rumors/info not reported by the tbi/LE

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 11:11 AM
This was not a case of home invasion gone bad. As one poster pointed out the perp would stake the place out in advance and he would have known their schedules of their comings and goings. If the perp had staked this place out he would have known that Holly was on her way to school and would be gone from the premises in just a few minutes so why would he risk an encounter with her when he knew she was leaving? That makes no sense.

Well a home invasion requires the occupants to be at home. Otherwise its a burglary or something else. But I know what you are getting at. Its not a burglary gone bad IMHO. I believe one of the reasons the suspect quickly whisked Holly away into the woods instead of shoving her back into the house was because he knew someone else (brother) could be inside.

He was waiting for her, somewhere around her car (where ever that actually was parked).

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 11:12 AM
Ok here is a good write up about all the various rumors and fake news stories floating around

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979298108

It's funny, though, that this writer quashes all the rumors without sources either.

BeanE
05-06-2011, 11:13 AM
exactly~ the article also gave kudos to another site we cannot link here that has posted rumors/info not reported by the tbi/LE

Two sites - one being the blogger's other blog. :banghead:

wfgodot
05-06-2011, 11:15 AM
The Gather writer's last piece I adjudged scurrilous, so it is funny, the attack on the Examiner article. Funny, and also quite true in that Examiner articles about the case have relied on unnamed "sources." I counted seven or eight of them in the one prior to the Nickell auto garage hearsay effort. Articles dependent on hearsay are abstractions; in thinking about evidence one should go in fear of abstractions.

What is interesting (and real) in the Nickell matter is the jumping of the bond from $75,000 to $300,000, though this could also reflect his probable status as a parole violator.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 11:21 AM
I have not read a lot about this Nickell character. But quite possibly having him in jail and increasing his bond would be the way Florida LE treated Misty Crosslin in the Haleigh Cummings disappearance. LE got a bunch of semi suspected interesting people on various unrelated charges like bad checks, pill dealing, etc. then piled on the charges and bond money in an attempt to get them to speak about the missing girls case.

liljim
05-06-2011, 11:22 AM
"Mapquest shows that the distance between Nickell's residence and the Bobo residence is 21.59 miles via one route, and 25.33 miles another. One local said a person familiar with the woods between the two properties could make it from the Bobo home to the Nickell residence within about 15 minutes."

unless i am missing something (like that there is a wormhole in those woods) there is no way anyone could travel through woods even in a straight line between these two locations and do it in 15 minutes.

isnt it 15-17 miles as the crow flies between these two properties?

Emma Peel
05-06-2011, 11:28 AM
Loving the bloggers bashing each other regarding facts and non-facts likely neither of them knew anything about until they read about them somewhere in the forums. :rocker:

If they won't hold themselves to a code of fact-checking, well, at least they are policing each other... :rolleyes:

Maybe one or the other will actually push a confirmation or denial out of LE. That would be something.

One claims to conduct e-mail phone calls with LE regularly, per the blog. That being the case, the blogger can request confirmation about the auto-garage lead/tip/story upon the next little chit-chat they conduct with TBI's Helms.

One would expect a blogger that has put themselves out there as the official rumor-quasher to either source or quash their own rumors and check facts with TBI prior to publishing.

On the other hand ... my bar is typically too high, so ... :nevermind:


:cow:

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 11:28 AM
"Mapquest shows that the distance between Nickell's residence and the Bobo residence is 21.59 miles via one route, and 25.33 miles another. One local said a person familiar with the woods between the two properties could make it from the Bobo home to the Nickell residence within about 15 minutes."

unless i am missing something (like that there is a wormhole in those woods) there is no way anyone could travel through woods even in a straight line between these two locations and do it in 15 minutes.

isnt it 15-17 miles as the crow flies between these two properties?

On foot, a military forced march (the distance a trained soldier can hike at a fast pace during one day) is not much more than 15 miles in heavy woods. Even on roads its something like 20 miles. So I doubt Little Nicky could do it easily on foot. Even in a truck driving 20 miles cross country in the woods (and at night) would take some time and make some noise too.

But again who is this unnamed local source.

grandmaj
05-06-2011, 11:34 AM
Good job peeps! :highfive:

I would be aghast if they said we were perpetuating the rumors out there!

Yes good job! The rumor mill goes round and round and if we can accomplish nothing more but keeping it real as we look at these cases, we have accomplished quite a bit.

cocomod
05-06-2011, 11:44 AM
Ok here is a good write up about all the various rumors and fake news stories floating around

http://*****************/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979298108

This blogger is mad because Isabelle wrote about her last week making false accusations against the family. Sounds like tit-for-tat.

Personally, I find Isabelles articles very thorough.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 11:46 AM
This blogger is mad because Isabelle wrote about her last week making false accusations against the family. Sounds like tit-for-tat.

Personally, I find Isabelles articles very thorough.

Hard to say. I kinda take all of the blog news stuff with a big grain of salt. I also kinda take it as the lack of real news and real information after three weeks is making the dogs turn on themselves.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 11:54 AM
I don't think it is a good idea for LE to ever narrow down a crime and/or suspect pool, as in saying the perp is likely a local person and someone familiar with Holly and or/or her family. There are many cases when it seems to be the case, yet isn't, as many here have pointed out.

This crime could just as easily be a stranger who came upon Holly only a day or two earlier and decided to follow her for his opportunity. If LE does NOT have a particular suspect in mind, it might not hurt to make public Holly's known itinerary in the days prior to her abduction. The person who took her did not just come across her at her house, he saw her someplace else first, I believe.

maskedwoman
05-06-2011, 12:23 PM
Good Job Jabber. I've been thinking. :lol: What if LE thinks they have their man in jail already. It could have been for anything random. I wonder if we can see the bookings in the county. If they are listed by day or if you have to have names. It might be an interesting exercise to go back and see who has been arrested.

I don't think Decatur county is online other than a single page that explains their staff of less than 10 people. I did find a searchable data of public records, which includes jail and inmate records, but you have to know who you are looking for. You can't just ask it who was arrested on dates x,y and z. Darn it. Plus, Henderson county is offline.

http://www.decaturcountytn.org/sheriffs_dept.asp
https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/siteInfoAction.do?siteId=43000

grandmaj
05-06-2011, 12:35 PM
I don't think Decatur county is online other than a single page that explains their staff of less than 10 people. I did find a searchable data of public records, which includes jail and inmate records, but you have to know who you are looking for. You can't just ask it who was arrested on dates x,y and z. Darn it. Plus, Henderson county is offline.

http://www.decaturcountytn.org/sheriffs_dept.asp
https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/siteInfoAction.do?siteId=43000

Thank you Masked. Yes I looked also and found the same thing. Some counties have a day to day listing of who is arrested. But didn't find anything like that in Dacatur. :(

maskedwoman
05-06-2011, 12:36 PM
Thanks grandmaj:) Wish I knew how to find records, I wonder if Holly surprised him while he was going to break in?

My gut feeling is no. Burglars don't want to encounter anyone. They just want your stuff. If she had surprised a burglar in the yard, I doubt they would have engaged her and kidnapped her. Home invasions are fast and violent and usually occur at night or on weekends when people are home. BUT, if they came there to do that, I think they would have forced her into the house. Holly would have been found at the house, along with her brother, one way or the other.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 12:43 PM
Thank you Masked. Yes I looked also and found the same thing. Some counties have a day to day listing of who is arrested. But didn't find anything like that in Dacatur. :(

Around here also the local newspapers post a crime page with more serious arrests throughout the counties. Not sure if its weekly, monthly etc.

JustyThoughts
05-06-2011, 12:45 PM
Good Friday everyone. Have read and caught up with past few days' posts and so many different thoughts and possibilities were covered. I find myself doing the "no official facts dance" - twirrlee round and round. I read about a named possible perp and think... yes!! that's it. Then I read about a different one and say... Yes!! that's it. LE just has not confirmed or denied much of anything - and maybe for good reason - but it is frustrating for us trying to figure what happened and somehow in that process locate Holly. Early on I had so much positive hope that she would be found and rescued; the volunteers outpouring was heartwarming. As time passes with no named suspect, no Holly and no official release of information + coupled with calling off mass searches - things look dim. However, I am holding HOPE that Holly will be found alive - until that time that I learn differently through recovery.
I'm proud of WS's ethics, for the mods who keep things on the straight-up, and for there being so many caring and dedicated W Sleuthers. I feel very confident that LE knows much more than they are saying and that much is going on that we don't know. Somewhere in all those "tips" (and yes maybe even in all those rumors) is the kernel of evidence that will bring resolution. We just need to keep turning over rocks and hearing each other's ideas, opinions and theories. Now, lets see what can be learned about this guy being held in custody. Where does he really live? Wife and kids? Job?
Sleuth On!!

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 01:01 PM
The really weird thing is that aside from a presumed kidnapping/abduction we dont really know what crime has been committed here. With so little news out we can't say its an assualt (physical or sexual), etc. Just someone is missing and assumed to have been taken (as opposed to running away). But thats it. Aparently no robbery, burglary, etc. Just someone missing.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 01:16 PM
I'm wondering if those sites aren't down because of the weather/flooding, or people preparing?

Also- I think the FBI believes that a crime has been committed here.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap

They don't tend to define someone missing as a kidnapping, and offer a reward- without good evidence of a crime occuring. IMO.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 01:19 PM
I'm wondering if those sites aren't down because of the weather/flooding, or people preparing?

Also- I think the FBI believes that a crime has been committed here.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap

They don't tend to define someone missing as a kidnapping, and offer a reward- without good evidence of a crime occuring. IMO.

Well yeah thats just what I said. Aside from the kidnapping/abduction we dont know what (else/other) kinds of crimes this can be. For example... no known ransom note so its not a kidnapping for money. No secondary crime scene like where someone was murdered (so not necessarily a murder) etc. Just that she is missing and presumed to be abducted. But thats it.

mkay882
05-06-2011, 01:21 PM
Yes good job! The rumor mill goes round and round and if we can accomplish nothing more but keeping it real as we look at these cases, we have accomplished quite a bit.

Even when and if we have disagreements on cases, I like that this place mostly runs on "Facts".

Oriah
05-06-2011, 01:31 PM
I understand what you're saying.

I think the FBI must have some knowledge of other crimes being significantly related to Holly's case; otherwise her case would not be categorized as a kidnapping.


Well yeah thats just what I said. Aside from the kidnapping/abduction we dont know what (else/other) kinds of crimes this can be. For example... no known ransom note so its not a kidnapping for money. No secondary crime scene like where someone was murdered (so not necessarily a murder) etc. Just that she is missing and presumed to be abducted. But thats it.

maskedwoman
05-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Well yeah thats just what I said. Aside from the kidnapping/abduction we dont know what (else/other) kinds of crimes this can be. For example... no known ransom note so its not a kidnapping for money. No secondary crime scene like where someone was murdered (so not necessarily a murder) etc. Just that she is missing and presumed to be abducted. But thats it.

Unfortunately, I suspect that there is a secondary crime scene. It just hasn't been located yet.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Unfortunately, I suspect that there is a secondary crime scene. It just hasn't been located yet.

Yes, I agree.

jabberwocky
05-06-2011, 01:50 PM
I don't think Decatur county is online other than a single page that explains their staff of less than 10 people. I did find a searchable data of public records, which includes jail and inmate records, but you have to know who you are looking for. You can't just ask it who was arrested on dates x,y and z. Darn it. Plus, Henderson county is offline.

http://www.decaturcountytn.org/sheriffs_dept.asp
https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/siteInfoAction.do?siteId=43000

decaturcountyonline.com is the online edition of the printed weekly Decatur County Chronicle. Where we live, we get a weekly paper once a week inserted in the larger daily newspaper that is specific to our town.
That being said, FWIW- I found these 2 items in their archives. It appears that they've been having a propblem with burglaries for at least a year.

http://decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?acat=1&archive=yes&art=1683

http://decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?acat=1&archive=yes&art=1522

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Unfortunately, I suspect that there is a secondary crime scene. It just hasn't been located yet.

Oh I agree too. But we know knothing... nada... zilch.

We know various items and things have been found. But aside from blood at the house (which has been tested but no results made public) and the lunch bag, thats about it. Various rumors and theories about phones, etc. are just that rumors. Even the big phone tip may may not be exactly true as some statements say no the easter find came from searches. So who knows. And the Easter find while described by a media member as a game changer, has been played down by LE who has said maybe not and it may not be related. With the "big" revision this week of the suspects description, I really am starting to doubt LE has much of an idea as to who the suspect is. Making someone 2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier really doesnt do, say, or mean very much given the overall description is so vague.

Its really frustrating to have so little to work with.

Rallihanna
05-06-2011, 02:09 PM
IMO, nothing in this case seems like a robbery.

jabberwocky
05-06-2011, 02:45 PM
I would have to agree with you to some extent, Rallihanna. I posted the links because I feel it gives a credible idea of the reason that the first account was a home invasion. It certainly appears that because of the purported meth problem ( not sure who posted the jacksonsun article-probably 5 threads back.) in the county, that is leading to other crimes as well :( It makes me sad because the majority of the citizens are obviously spiritual, kind,upstanding people.

bobsmi
05-06-2011, 03:26 PM
I don't even get why they would put this out there for the public? Do they have to according to law?

To me it seems like they are saying, "Hey if you are operating an unlicensed or unsafe vehicle we'll be looking for you at US 641 in Benton."

Gee...let's see....how many people that are unlicensed are going to take that route today, unless they are totally dense.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I do not get it.

Didn't the Examiner article say Nickell lived at 1815 Liberty Church Rd.? That is just off US 641.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-3-week-wrap-up-we-re-not-giving-up-on-holly

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 03:28 PM
By looking at the FBI site, it appears that a kidnapping has to be witnessed. Holly is listed as "kidnapped" while Kyron Horman is listed as "missing." Even Lindsey Baum and Haleigh Cummings are listed as missing, and Hailey Dunn, not listed at all. I wonder how they decide who they will list.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 03:32 PM
With no facts coming in I guess we can rule out robbery and home invasion. I am with Carly. The LE gives anyone few facts to go on and I don't believe they know who or where this person is.

Roadblocks were set up way too late in my opinion. Has the FBI been called in yet? If not, does this mean that they believe she is still in TN?

Rallihanna
05-06-2011, 03:43 PM
I believe the FBI has been involved from fairly early on.

tfrohning
05-06-2011, 03:51 PM
"Mapquest shows that the distance between Nickell's residence and the Bobo residence is 21.59 miles via one route, and 25.33 miles another. One local said a person familiar with the woods between the two properties could make it from the Bobo home to the Nickell residence within about 15 minutes."

unless i am missing something (like that there is a wormhole in those woods) there is no way anyone could travel through woods even in a straight line between these two locations and do it in 15 minutes.

isnt it 15-17 miles as the crow flies between these two properties?

per google that correct.

That why I wonde who was local who said that because not evening knowing the area it don't seem possible:waitasec:

Oriah
05-06-2011, 03:53 PM
Didn't the Examiner article say Nickell lived at 1815 Liberty Church Rd.? That is just off US 641.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-abduction-3-week-wrap-up-we-re-not-giving-up-on-holly

Bumping this- and specifically these phone #'s:


<Holly’s family is reaching out to their community, once again, this time asking people to please, search your properties for clues. If you find one, don’t touch it. Call 1-800-TBI-FIND or the Decatur County Sheriff Department at 731-852-3714.>


And MOO (don't want to speak for LE) but by 'clues' I think they might mean anything you might find on your property that makes you uncomfortable. Holly herself might not be there, but there may be something that is there that makes you go hmmmmmmm.


If that's the case, call LE.


I'm wondering if they shouldn't add a 'may be armed' to the kidnapping poster. :waitasec:

tfrohning
05-06-2011, 03:57 PM
By looking at the FBI site, it appears that a kidnapping has to be witnessed. Holly is listed as "kidnapped" while Kyron Horman is listed as "missing." Even Lindsey Baum and Haleigh Cummings are listed as missing, and Hailey Dunn, not listed at all. I wonder how they decide who they will list.

that good point! Kidnap compare to other missing:waitasec:

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 04:15 PM
I agree.. They want people to search their own properties but are vague if not anything about telling people what they might expect... say an armed person etc. This case makes no sense. I get that they are asking people to look for "evidence" but how about some info on the perp just in case they encounter someone or do you just look being armed?

Plumeria5
05-06-2011, 04:20 PM
Well a home invasion requires the occupants to be at home. Otherwise its a burglary or something else. But I know what you are getting at. Its not a burglary gone bad IMHO. I believe one of the reasons the suspect quickly whisked Holly away into the woods instead of shoving her back into the house was because he knew someone else (brother) could be inside.

He was waiting for her, somewhere around her car (where ever that actually was parked).

You know, last night I came home very late from work. Parked in the carport, opened my car door, and was fiddling around trying to gather up all the things I needed to carry into the house. Not at all thinking someone could be hiding around the corner, come up behind me, etc. Then all of a sudden Holly came to mind. I started looking around and making sure there was no one lurking. It sure makes a person think about their safety and how unassuming Holly would have been heading out to her car to go to school that morning. I am sure she was up cramming for her test the night before and probably worrying about it when she was walking to her car. Little did she know her test was the least of her worries. I think there should be on-going classes on this starting at the elementary level through high school. When I was very young growing up in a small town, I was taught to listen to adults. I was so naive. I would have trusted basically anyone. Scary to think about that now!!

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 04:21 PM
Also, why not show samples of the items Holly was carrying that day that have not been recovered? A purse, books, whatever? What kind of shoes did she have on? How will anyone know if they find anything of interest? Do they want every shoe, every piece of clothing found in the woods, anywhere, brought to their attention?

BeanE
05-06-2011, 04:25 PM
Bumping this- and specifically these phone #'s:


<Holly’s family is reaching out to their community, once again, this time asking people to please, search your properties for clues. If you find one, don’t touch it. Call 1-800-TBI-FIND or the Decatur County Sheriff Department at 731-852-3714.>


And MOO (don't want to speak for LE) but by 'clues' I think they might mean anything you might find on your property that makes you uncomfortable. Holly herself might not be there, but there may be something that is there that makes you go hmmmmmmm.


If that's the case, call LE.


I'm wondering if they shouldn't add a 'may be armed' to the kidnapping poster. :waitasec:


Actually, the family didn't say anything about clues - that's the blogger's embellishment.

The family didn't specify what to look for, they just asked people to:

Keep your eyes and ears open, and search your own property.

Full family statement:
http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Developing-Bobo-Family-Issues-Statement-121178554.html

Oriah
05-06-2011, 04:26 PM
I agree.. They want people to search their own properties but are vague if not anything about telling people what they might expect... say an armed person etc. This case makes no sense. I get that they are asking people to look for "evidence" but how about some info on the perp just in case they encounter someone or do you just look being armed?

BBM: ok, LOL annboleyn (although I don't think this sitaution is anything to laugh about.)

Now seriously- the kidnapper is described as being in camo, there are various reports of the whole turkey season thing, the blood found... being armed and dangerous seems like a good add-on to the FBI poster. Am I crazy??

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 04:26 PM
My advise would be not to open the car door unless you have your stuff together. I have a best friend who used to open the car door and then try and find her keys to start the car. Same for getting out of the car. I told her quite often that she was good car jacking material. She doesn't do it anymore.

I believe that if you let your guard down, that is when trouble will usually find you. You don't want to be paranoid but being aware of your environment, where ever you may be, is important.

When I moved to the big city I was terribly naive. I had several experiences where I was an innocent person, that if I had not been aware of my environment, I would not be here today.

bobsmi
05-06-2011, 04:28 PM
Bumping this- and specifically these phone #'s:


<Holly’s family is reaching out to their community, once again, this time asking people to please, search your properties for clues. If you find one, don’t touch it. Call 1-800-TBI-FIND or the Decatur County Sheriff Department at 731-852-3714.>


And MOO (don't want to speak for LE) but by 'clues' I think they might mean anything you might find on your property that makes you uncomfortable. Holly herself might not be there, but there may be something that is there that makes you go hmmmmmmm.


If that's the case, call LE.


I'm wondering if they shouldn't add a 'may be armed' to the kidnapping poster. :waitasec:


Thinking about the photos of the carport again.

1. The parents left first, leaving Holly's and Clint's cars there
2. The car in the external structure is white (maybe Clint's?)
3. Did Dad usually park back with Clint?

If so, Holly would have been coming out of the carport in the rear of the house.

This link describes how the parking is described in the house listing:

http://www.trulia.com/homes/Tennessee/Darden/sold/934068-681-Swan-Johnson-Rd-Darden-TN-38328

grandmaj
05-06-2011, 04:31 PM
http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/sorint/sordetailart.aspx?htid=SO005150

His last registration report date was 3/24/2011. It gives his address as Liberty Street, Jackson, TN.

Plumeria5
05-06-2011, 04:32 PM
Thinking about the photos of the carport again.

1. The parents left first, leaving Holly's and Clint's cars there
2. The car in the external structure is white (maybe Clint's?)
3. Did Dad usually park back with Clint?

If so, Holly would have been coming out of the carport in the rear of the house.

This link describes how the parking is described in the house listing:

http://www.trulia.com/homes/Tennessee/Darden/sold/934068-681-Swan-Johnson-Rd-Darden-TN-38328

I also see the rating for this location is rated "terrible". Reviewers only gave Safety 1 star.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 04:33 PM
I agree with cluciano63. Give us something to go on. Can LE tell us without compromising the investigation, what she had on her or with her that day besides the lunchbox and phone?
:banghead:

BeanE
05-06-2011, 04:39 PM
Also, why not show samples of the items Holly was carrying that day that have not been recovered? A purse, books, whatever? What kind of shoes did she have on? How will anyone know if they find anything of interest? Do they want every shoe, every piece of clothing found in the woods, anywhere, brought to their attention?

That always bothers - that items of evidence in these cases are probably thrown away because the person who found them didn't know they were important.

I loved what they did in Kyron's case, where they got duplicates of everything he was wearing, head to toe, and had the presser and showed them, holding them up, and then released pictures of them. That was such an excellent idea.

maskedwoman
05-06-2011, 04:43 PM
I also see the rating for this location is rated "terrible". Reviewers only gave Safety 1 star.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate. Someone came through and rated it very low for everything. It was last updated 13 hours ago. It could easily be that all these ratings occurs after Holly went missing. Just a thought.

WestCoastLady
05-06-2011, 04:46 PM
Also, why not show samples of the items Holly was carrying that day that have not been recovered? A purse, books, whatever? What kind of shoes did she have on? How will anyone know if they find anything of interest? Do they want every shoe, every piece of clothing found in the woods, anywhere, brought to their attention?

The Morgan Harrington case was very similar. Sleuthers had to fight for every detail - what did her shirt look like? her boots? her backpack/purse? her cell phone? her jewelry?

I know LE is playing this close to the vest, but what is *too close*???

Woe.be.gone
05-06-2011, 04:52 PM
He said he lives 3 doors down, and a local said you can get there in 15 minutes by the woods. I wonder if, going through the woods, he is "3 doors away" from the victim. And of course, the only way he would know this is if he traveled to her house through the woods. Maybe this comment was a slip up? One of the 3 houses could easily be the neighbor who heard the scream and called 911. Just some early morning thoughts I had.

BBM ~ :waitasec: Who said he lived three doors down? :waitasec:

wfgodot
05-06-2011, 04:55 PM
BBM ~ :waitasec: Who said he lived three doors down? :waitasec:

It is more hearsay, from the hearsay-strewn Examiner.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 04:57 PM
The Morgan Harrington case was very similar. Sleuthers had to fight for every detail - what did her shirt look like? her boots? her backpack/purse? her cell phone? her jewelry?

I know LE is playing this close to the vest, but what is *too close*???

I don't understand what is to be gained by LE holding this info back. How can it hurt the case if people know what to be looking for? Or where she went on the Tuesday before this happened? They could say, without naming times, that she had been at these three places, and if anyone had seen her and noticed anything/anyone unusual at any of those places, to please contact LE. They could say she had a brown purse with a shoulder strap and black trim, for example. How is that risking anything?

WideOpen
05-06-2011, 04:59 PM
I know LE is playing this close to the vest, but what is *too close*???

Last night I had the pleasure of meeting 3 college boys from Johnson City Tenn. who are vacationing here. I asked them about Holly and they had no clue what I was talking about. They had not heard of the case. Sadly, I told them the little bit we know.
I think they are playing it too close to the vest when people living in the state havent even heard of Holly!

nursebeeme
05-06-2011, 05:00 PM
I don't understand what is to be gained by LE holding this info back. How can it hurt the case if people know what to be looking for? Or where she went on the Tuesday before this happened? They could say, without naming times, that she had been at these three places, and if anyone had seen her and noticed anything/anyone unusual at any of those places, to please contact LE. They could say she had a brown purse with a shoulder strap and black trim, for example. How is that risking anything?
or even listing items to look for (that have NOT been recovered)

bobsmi
05-06-2011, 05:06 PM
http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/sorint/sordetailart.aspx?htid=SO005150

His last registration report date was 3/24/2011. It gives his address as Liberty Street, Jackson, TN.

That's interesting, grandmaj. I guess a person could go from the abduction scene on back roads (114 & 20) to Jackson, or go through Parsons and up 69 & 641 to I40 and double back (to throw people off, especially tossing bits of evidence).

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 05:10 PM
pardon me if this was mentioned or asked before:

Was he wearing long sleeves, hat, gloves? What kind of boots did he have on?
Any weapons visible like gun, knife..? Did he have a beard, mustache, etc?

After her abduction, did anyone notice any men appearing to have scratches or bruises on their hands, face, arms etc?

Are there any properties around Holly's home that are described as deer lease land? Out of towners leasing...?

Just a few thoughts.....

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:13 PM
BBM: ok, LOL annboleyn (although I don't think this sitaution is anything to laugh about.)

Now seriously- the kidnapper is described as being in camo, there are various reports of the whole turkey season thing, the blood found... being armed and dangerous seems like a good add-on to the FBI poster. Am I crazy??

Remember that having on Camo does not mean you are a turkey hunter. I see people in camo every week in town that are not turkey hunting. Many are teens that may not even own a gun.

Since the perp was not seen with a weapon, I don't think the poster should describe him as armed and dangerous.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 05:13 PM
Oh something else that I am starting to think about is Mother's Day on Sunday. My mom has passed on but I was concerned for Holly's mom. I am going to say some extra prayers for her and her family.

The way that LE has been so tight lipped about everything, it is a wonder why their is silence and no info coming forth.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 05:17 PM
That always bothers - that items of evidence in these cases are probably thrown away because the person who found them didn't know they were important.

I loved what they did in Kyron's case, where they got duplicates of everything he was wearing, head to toe, and had the presser and showed them, holding them up, and then released pictures of them. That was such an excellent idea.

That's more where I was going with people searching their property.
Just from a SAR perspective- this is the way I think- and this is NOT blame in any way at all. It's being aware of what might be going on right beside you, when you live in a rural environment. Heck, when you live anywhere.

How did that shoe that's not yours end up way out on your back twenty? Or that empty can of coke? That empty pack of cigs? The deer stand that you didn't put up? Tire tracks on your property that aren't where you drove recently? I think that's what LE is looking for, when they are requesting people look at their properties.
JMHO.

I know no one wants to bother LE with unimportant tips for sure, because they are busy enough; but it doesn't hurt to pay attention to details.

That's where I was going with that thought.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 05:22 PM
If someone is categorized as being an abductor or kidnapper, I would play it on the safe side and state he may be armed. For sure he did not have good intentions on his mind when doing this.

I never stated that the guy was a hunter. I was using deer lease as an example of something that might have taken place.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 05:23 PM
Remember that having on Camo does not mean you are a turkey hunter. I see people in camo every week in town that are not turkey hunting. Many are teens that may not even own a gun.

Since the perp was not seen with a weapon, I don't think the poster should describe him as armed and dangerous.


10EC_Dad, I didn't mean that he should be marked as armed and dangerous because of the camo. Just that when you put together all of the factors- it seems like this abductor is likely volatile, and MAY have had a weapon.

How do we know he didn't have a weapon?

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:23 PM
Last night I had the pleasure of meeting 3 college boys from Johnson City Tenn. who are vacationing here. I asked them about Holly and they had no clue what I was talking about. They had not heard of the case. Sadly, I told them the little bit we know.
I think they are playing it too close to the vest when people living in the state havent even heard of Holly!

Look at a map of TN. From Johnson City, you can be in Washington D.C. in about the time to get to where Holly lives.

In addition, that part of the state (Tri Cities) is very regional.

Snowbunny
05-06-2011, 05:26 PM
pardon me if this was mentioned or asked before:

Was he wearing long sleeves, hat, gloves? What kind of boots did he have on?
Any weapons visible like gun, knife..? Did he have a beard, mustache, etc?

After her abduction, did anyone notice any men appearing to have scratches or bruises on their hands, face, arms etc?

Are there any properties around Holly's home that are described as deer lease land? Out of towners leasing...?

Just a few thoughts.....

Very good questions! I believe I read on the FBI website that Holly was wearing a pink top and light blue jeans, but the only description that we have of the perp is that he's 5'8"-6' tall, weighs 180-220 lbs and was wearing camos but nothing else. It would be nice to know a few more details. I don't know about you, but I would be terrified to go check a wooded area on my property if I owned several acres without knowing what I might be up against. When I lived in TN a lot of properties had old abandoned buildings located back in the woods and unless you know what you're doing you might be taking a risk. I'm surprised LE hasn't said more with regards to the safety of the community. I hope no one goes out looking alone and by all means I hope they have a cellphone on them. One never knows what you might come across.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 05:29 PM
Remember that having on Camo does not mean you are a turkey hunter. I see people in camo every week in town that are not turkey hunting. Many are teens that may not even own a gun.

Since the perp was not seen with a weapon, I don't think the poster should describe him as armed and dangerous.

the camo was described as being turkey hunter (style) camo which I guess is a particular style of camo.

Myself, I would consider the suspect armed and dangerous since he took Holly and blood was found at the scene. LE said they felt she was in fear for her life.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:31 PM
10EC_Dad, I didn't mean that he should be marked as armed and dangerous because of the camo. Just that when you put together all of the factors- it seems like this abductor is likely volatile, and MAY have had a weapon.

How do we know he didn't have a weapon?

I think LE has a responsibility to try and be as accurate as possible. The description "armed and dangerous" should be reserved for cases where the perp is known to be armed and dertermined to be a dangerous threat to the general public. There is no evidence of that in this case.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 05:33 PM
There was blood (belonging to?) and LE said she was led away "in fear for her life". If not armed, surely dangerous at least? But if not armed, why did she not fight back, struggle, drop her belongings?

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:39 PM
the camo was described as being turkey hunter (style) camo which I guess is a particular style of camo.

Myself, I would consider the suspect armed and dangerous since he took Holly and blood was found at the scene. LE said they felt she was in fear for her life.

Camo "style" or pattern relates to blending in to the local surroundings and not the animal you are hunting. The articles of camo clothing is usually determined by a combination of the animal you are hunting and the weather. For example, the turkey has keen eyesight, therefore, the hunter will wear a face covering. However, deer do not see very well but have a keen sense of smell, therefore, a deer hunter does not need to cover their face in camo (unless for warmth), will wear hunter safety orange, and use a camo scent.

Again, wearing camo does not make you a weapon owner.

Snowbunny
05-06-2011, 05:39 PM
Surely the brother would know if the perp was wearing a hat, jacket, etc, or even carrying a weapon. Was the perp pointing a gun at her and forcing her to walk into the woods? A lot of the details just don't add up in this case.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:45 PM
There was blood (belonging to?) and LE said she was led away "in fear for her life". If not armed, surely dangerous at least? But if not armed, why did she not fight back, struggle, drop her belongings?

I understand the the perp may have threatened Holly and was a danger to her. For the purpose of LE classification, that does not make him "armed and dangerous" to the general public.

When I hear a perp being labled as "armed and dangerous" in my area, I take an extra precaution for the potential of a person with intent and ability to cause harm to the general public. Think about it, if every perp of a certian level of crime was always announced as being "armed and dangerous", the specific classification would be diluted and not heeded in times it should be.

I do not mean to be argumentative. I like that LE is being responsible in the bigger picture.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 05:47 PM
Camo "style" or pattern relates to blending in to the local surroundings and not the the animal you are hunting. The articles of camo clothing is usually determined by a combination of the animal you are hunting and the weather. For example, the turkey has keen eyesight, therefore, the hunter will wear a face covering. However, deer do not see very well but have a keen sense of smell, therefoer, a deer hunter does not need to cover their face in camo (unless for warmth), will wear hunter safety orange, and use a camo scent.

Again, wearing camo does not make you a weapon owner.

Aparntly there is "turkey hunting camo" designed to be worn when hutning turkeys. Im not making it up... its been discussed here several times with links provided. There was even a link to a video showing it being worn by turkey hunters.

No one is saying per say that this is a hunter. LE says hes in camo and I would assume he is armed and dangerous. Nothing about that at all implies a hunter although he could be one or could have some knowledge of the woods around that area, whcih the family and LE have also stated. So Im not making that up either.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 05:50 PM
I think LE has a responsibility to try and be as accurate as possible. The description "armed and dangerous" should be reserved for cases where the perp is known to be armed and dertermined to be a dangerous threat to the general public. There is no evidence of that in this case.

10EC_Dad, ITA with LE having a responsibilty to being as accurate as possible.

Respectfully, I disagree about the fact that there is no evidence of that in this case. I don't understand how information can be released that states Holly is the victim of an apparent kidnapping (per the FBI poster- I noted the special circumstances) by a man in camo- during a hunting season- with blood found- and several other missing people in the area, that LE is looking at- and not think about that.

I'm going to search:
http://www.co.madison.tn.us/index.aspx?nid=271


Seems like that might be the best resource right now.

Dr. Know?
05-06-2011, 05:51 PM
http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/sorint/sordetailart.aspx?htid=SO005150

His last registration report date was 3/24/2011. It gives his address as Liberty Street, Jackson, TN.

That's Madison County Criminal Justice address.

http://www.co.madison.tn.us/index.aspx?nid=271

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Surely the brother would know if the perp was wearing a hat, jacket, etc, or even carrying a weapon. Was the perp pointing a gun at her and forcing her to walk into the woods? A lot of the details just don't add up in this case.

Actually its not too confusing when you go back and look at the actual LE reports and not fifth hand descriptions of what did or didnt happen.

The brother glanced out a window and saw a man in "full camo" leading his sister into the woods. He thought she was walking into the woods with her boyfriend, which I guess is not unusual. Later when he found her car still at the house and blood on the ground he became suspicious and called the police. LE has not said how close or far away Holly and camo man were from the window and in what direction they were going. Judging from aerial photos of the house it could be anywhere from a few feet to 50 yards away. So there is not a lot of detail to the suspect description.

Honestly at this late date too the description of him wearing camo is pretty useless since I am sure in three weeks he has changed clothes and isnt standing out in Hollys back yard any more.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Aparntly there is "turkey hunting camo" designed to be worn when hutning turkeys. Im not making it up... its been discussed here several times with links provided. There was even a link to a video showing it being worn by turkey hunters.

No one is saying per say that this is a hunter. LE says hes in camo and I would assume he is armed and dangerous. Nothing about that at all implies a hunter although he could be one or could have some knowledge of the woods around that area, whcih the family and LE have also stated. So Im not making that up either.

Carla, I am not implying that you are making anything up.

I am telling you, as an avid hunter in Tennessee, what is true about camo and how it is used.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 05:57 PM
The description is and always has been basically useless.
Hope LE has more than that to go on.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 05:57 PM
10EC_Dad, ITA with LE having a responsibilty to being as accurate as possible.

Respectfully, I disagree about the fact that there is no evidence of that in this case. I don't understand how information can be released that states Holly is the victim of an apparent kidnapping (per the FBI poster- I noted the special circumstances) by a man in camo- during a hunting season- with blood found- and several other missing people in the area, that LE is looking at- and not think about that.

I'm going to search:
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fbi/is/ncic.htm

Seems like that might be the best resource right now.

I suggest that there is a big difference in linking as many possibilities you wish and the LE stating this perp as "armed and dangerous".

I see big picture down sides and no upsides to this case in doing so.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 05:58 PM
That's Madison County Criminal Justice address.

http://www.co.madison.tn.us/index.aspx?nid=271

Thanks Dr. Know-
Na, that just came up with wrong link. And thank you, let me correct.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 06:00 PM
The description is and always has been basically useless.
Hope LE has more than that to go on.


Well definately not as uniquely descriptive as to be more than generally helpful.

Saying someone is wearing camo in rural America is almost like saying someone was wearing a coat in Alaska.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 06:01 PM
Aparently this leafy lookin stuff is what all dapper turkey hunters should wear.

http://www.txfowlers.com/Breakup_Jacket_pant_Whitewater_Outdoors.asp

as an aside a friend of mine invented a radio control turkey hunting decoy that pops up and down and turns around. Kinda strange but I guess it works or he thinks it will work. It has these big plastic turkeys on top.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 06:02 PM
Well definately not as uniquely descriptive as to be more than generally helpful.

Saying someone is wearing camo in rural America is almost like saying someone was wearing a coat in Alaska.

I have camo Keds and Converse sneakers and various items of camo clothing and I live in a big city.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 06:04 PM
I have camo Keds and Converse sneakers and various items of camo clothing and I live in a big city.


Excellent!

Oriah
05-06-2011, 06:05 PM
I suggest that there is a big difference in linking as many possibilities you wish and the LE stating this perp as "armed and dangerous".

I see big picture down sides and no upsides to this case in doing so.

Can you explain more about what you think about that?

Maybe it's the media twist that is making me think this abductor was armed.

ETA: it is NOT just the camo that makes me think this man may have been armed. The camo is just a contributing thought.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 06:07 PM
Aparently this leafy lookin stuff is what all dapper turkey hunters should wear.

http://www.txfowlers.com/Breakup_Jacket_pant_Whitewater_Outdoors.asp

as an aside a friend of mine invented a radio control turkey hunting decoy that pops up and down and turns around. Kinda strange but I guess it works or he thinks it will work. It has these big plastic turkeys on top.

Too funny, I pity the turkey hunter that is called "dapper"! You don't want to be the guy that looks like he just walked out of a catalogue.

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 06:13 PM
I couldnt think of another word to describe a well dressed turkey hunter.

I needed camo to hide from the turkey that attacked me in Hillsborough River State Park.

Kimster
05-06-2011, 06:16 PM
I think LE has a responsibility to try and be as accurate as possible. The description "armed and dangerous" should be reserved for cases where the perp is known to be armed and dertermined to be a dangerous threat to the general public. There is no evidence of that in this case.

Personally, I'd rather them be safe than sorry. I'd want to know to take this very seriously if it happened in my town.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 06:17 PM
Can you explain more about what you think about that?

Maybe it's the media twist that is making me think this abductor was armed.

Here is my point. A responsible person or organization must have criteria in determining a level of alertness.

If your local news station warned you to take cover every time a possible tornado producing storm was spotted in the US but not a threat to your community, you would lose respect for that warning. The same is true if your local news station warned you to take cover every time a rain shower was headed towards your house.

In this case, we do not know if the perp was armed. We can draw many conclusions and one of them is that the perp was armed. We do not know that the perp is dangerous to anyone but Holly. In fact, he may have had the opportunity to harm her brother but did not. Again, we can come to many conclusions and one of them is that he has intent to harm everyone in the community.

Again, placing a lable of "armed and dangerous" on this perp with this evidence is not responsible and does not help the case.

10EC_Dad
05-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Personally, I'd rather them be safe than sorry. I'd want to know to take this very seriously if it happened in my town.

See my text about a tornado warning above.

Have a good weekend all and remember your mom and Holly's mom.

lishac23
05-06-2011, 06:19 PM
As with everyone else, I've been to say the least frustrated at the lack of information that LE has provided in this case. I work with LE so I asked one of our detectives what (in his experienced opinion) does he think is going on. In his opinion (8 years as a detective) he thought there are a number of reasons LE could be withholding information. One being to weed out the crazies (as this is a national case) that call in with bogus tips. He said that what most people don't realize is that when a description goes out, that is as vague as this one appears to be. LE gets 100s of calls a day from people insisting they've seen him. LEaking too much information can cause people to call in with tips that sound so convincing because they were able to take all the info from the papers and form a theory/story/tip that sounds very plausible. For example, the time of abduction. If they release everything that occured that morning....someone can call in and say I saw SO & SO who matches the description, dressed in camo, at X time walking out the woods, on the west end of XYZ road, he looked sweaty and disheveled and was bleeding from his left hand. All the info would have come from media reports, sounds very suspicious, LE would have to follow up on the lead (as they should) however, how do you follow up on each and every call with the same story line about 20 different SO & SOs. Since only LE knows the exact time, knows the exact description of the camo, and who's blood it is....it makes it easier to weed out the dozens of calls they were and could still be getting.

Kimster
05-06-2011, 06:20 PM
See my text about a tornado warning above.

Have a good weekend all and remember your mom and Holly's mom.

I did. I respect your opinion but I still would want to know how serious the concern. To me, it's not a problem that they issued the warning. Some will disagree and that's okay.

Kimster
05-06-2011, 06:26 PM
This is what I think, and it's not a WS rule or anything, just my personal opinion.

Different agencies operate in a way they think is best for their area. Some agencies may not be as effective as others, but I hope the voters in the area keep abreast of those issues and take care of the problems at the polls.

In my time of watching different cases on WS, I've seen a huge array of how LE handles missing persons cases. And there are a lot of different opinions on how effective those decisions are in finding the missing. In Kyron's case, a poster of his step-mom was issued and that caused a flurry of speculation, to be sure. In the Haleigh Cummings case, there hasn't been a whole lot released at all. Which is better? Can there be too much information released? Not enough released? Does LE know things they should release and aren't? Or do they know much more than we know at this point?

Lots of questions. I don't have the answer but LE is our best bet in finding Holly and I support them.

Jo in Calif
05-06-2011, 06:27 PM
I'm thinking what some people might be having trouble with here is LE has not given a description of what the suspect looks like, they simply can't, because they don't have one.
LE can only tell the public what Holly's brother saw.
A man, who he at first thought was Holly's boyfriend, leading her towards, or into the woods.
What he saw was a man aprox 5' 10" to 6' tall aprox 200 lbs, wearing camo clothing.
We have also heard that he was white and was in full turkey camo clothing.
These are from news reports, I realize that the TBI had a shorter description on their web site.
I really don't LE was telling the public to be on the look out for a man aprox. 5' 10' to 6' tall weighing aprox. 200 lbs. wearing turkey camo clothing.
LE was telling us what Holly's brother saw, that is all they have, no hair color, no facial hair, no eye color, no scars, no tattoo's, they gave us what they have.

Oriah
05-06-2011, 06:32 PM
Okay. Lots of questions indeed.
And, lacking further info- I'm going to go back to thinking about this individual:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/robert-william-fisher

He matches a lot of similar reports, and has not been located yet.
Have there been any reports of arson or fires associated within the area?
Thoughts, ya'll?

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 06:34 PM
Kind of OT, but I am reading a book about the beginnings of forensics, much of which took place in France in the late 19th century, and after one murder (part of a serial but not yet known to be) the authorities issue the information that the killer wore wooden shoes. But of course, the region was known for wooden shoes and nearly everyone wore them. Also this killer was a traveler/vagabond and he wandered out of the woods, saw a pretty girl in one instance, and hauled her away and killed her. He hid her body, she was eventually found.

This was 125 years ago or so, but it sounds like this same sort of crime to me, and the wooden shoes=camo, as far as a "clue" goes.

lishac23
05-06-2011, 06:39 PM
He also mentioned that it could be that they don't want to taint their questioning of locals. If they truly believe the person is in the community, if certain information is leaked it can help "prepare" a perp for questioning. For example, not releasing the 911 call. No one including the perp knows what exactly the brother saw, or what the second 911 caller heard/saw. That kind of information can be used in questioning potential suspects and in shaky terms, used as leverage/bluff. In his opinion, he thinks the brother saw more of this "guy" than what is being reported and with the protection that was placed around the house....possibly could pick him out of a line up. LE just has to find out who "he" is.
When I mentioned that if the brother got that good of a look at his face, and LE thinks he was known to HB, shouldn't the brother be able to identify him. My buddy told me that even in small town, given that both HB and her brother are young, there is no way they are familiar/know EVERYBODY. It could very well be someone who knew HB but not necessarily the other way around. HE compared it to a smaller high school, and asked if I right after my HS graduation would be able to identify by name a sophmore (whom I should have seen everyday for two years) from 50 yards away....

Woe.be.gone
05-06-2011, 06:42 PM
Actually its not too confusing when you go back and look at the actual LE reports and not fifth hand descriptions of what did or didnt happen.

The brother glanced out a window and saw a man in "full camo" leading his sister into the woods. He thought she was walking into the woods with her boyfriend, which I guess is not unusual. Later when he found her car still at the house and blood on the ground he became suspicious and called the police. LE has not said how close or far away Holly and camo man were from the window and in what direction they were going. Judging from aerial photos of the house it could be anywhere from a few feet to 50 yards away. So there is not a lot of detail to the suspect description.

Honestly at this late date too the description of him wearing camo is pretty useless since I am sure in three weeks he has changed clothes and isnt standing out in Hollys back yard any more.

BBM ~ Interesting. The boyfriend looks to be neither tall nor real short but I'm not sure he'd measure even 5'10 going by the picture of Holly (5'3") and him standing side-by-side. Also he's neither skinny and definitely not fat. A six foot tall guy at 220lbs. is bound to have a belly and look nothing like the boyfriend. :waitasec: Just saying. I'm sooo confused. :waitasec:

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 06:43 PM
Do we know if there is still a police presence at the home after nearly a month? That would be exceptional and imply some possible danger to the family, if not from the perp than possibly from threats made toward the brother, for example? There was a lot of rancor directed toward him initially and anonymously on the internet, and their address and photos of the house have been available for weeks.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 06:47 PM
So I wonder what is next after people search their properties, in a perfect world everyone does this? With holding so much info back for their own reasons in regards to any future suspect(s), what else can the general public do? I am assuming locals are being vigil in looking to see who did not show up for work etc. What next? They have cut back the public searches and are doing their own. This could go on forever. Just wait and see? Sorry if I am becoming a bit impatient. They give you nothing to go on but what expect you will find the miracle evidence?

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 06:51 PM
So I wonder what is next after people search their properties, in a perfect world everyone does this? With holding so much info back for their own reasons in regards to any future suspect(s), what else can the general public do? I am assuming locals are being vigil in looking to see who did not show up for work etc. What next? They have cut back the public searches and are doing their own. This could go on forever. Just wait and see? Sorry if I am becoming a big impatient. They give you nothing to go on but what expect you will find the miracle evidence?

Maybe they are waiting on forensics on items they found...maybe they will luck into a fingerprint and it will be in a database somewhere...if not, this case could turn into one of those we never hear much about, except on various special dates and anniversaries. Hope not, it is far too soon for that to happen. But LE, the family, or both have to keep it in the public's eye.

annboleyn2011
05-06-2011, 06:53 PM
That is what I am afraid of-This becoming another cold case such as Jennifer Kesse or Tara Grinstead. I am going to continue my prayer that this will be solved soon. I hope for Holly and her parents some missing piece of the puzzle will be solved soon.....

sumzero
05-06-2011, 07:07 PM
Do we know if there is still a police presence at the home after nearly a month? That would be exceptional and imply some possible danger to the family, if not from the perp than possibly from threats made toward the brother, for example? There was a lot of rancor directed toward him initially and anonymously on the internet, and their address and photos of the house have been available for weeks.

This is a good question. I'll bet there is no police presence any longer at the home. I interpreted the police presence right after the abduction to: (1) protecting the potential "crime scene" from contamination; (2) protecting the Bobos from harrassment (by members of the media, curious neighbors, etc.). But what do I know? Not much.

liljim
05-06-2011, 07:09 PM
i keep thinking about the blood today, just brainstorming here;

someone that knows her and knows she is pursuing nursing comes out of the woods just as she is leaving, they have blood on them and tell her "oh my god holly, we need you quick, so and so was just shot accidentaly while we were hunting, he is right in here we have to hurry"

*drip* blood on ground, she doesnt resist - but to an observer it does look like she is being ushered quickly into the woods but also not fighting, which works with both witnesses reports. maybe he tells her there is no time for 911 they have to stop the bleeding, gets her far enough into the woods and then subdues/forces her to continue on once she realizes something is up.

if the blood on the ground is blood from an animal that would fit with this scenario.

this is total speculation by me, no idea if other evidence works with this. but if the suspect is in fact a hunter they might be someone who would do something like this, and they might leave items in different places to throw off the trail.

i agree with people that have mentioned scenarios like this sound too much like TV but its just something i thought of today. the blood on the ground puzzles me, i wish we knew whose blood it is. hopefully the police already do.

Snowbunny
05-06-2011, 07:11 PM
I was LE at one point and you are right there are certain things that you withhold for interrogation purposes, but this is an awful vague description of the perp that could fit almost anyone of the same height, weight and who wore camos.

Woe.be.gone
05-06-2011, 07:16 PM
Carla, I am not implying that you are making anything up.

I am telling you, as an avid hunter in Tennessee, what is true about camo and how it is used.

Since I've not heard differently, it safe to assume the guy was wearing local camo (whatever that is) that would blend in with almost everyone else around there. As we have discussed, there are countless types of camo patterns. If the camo was 'different', that would stand out and would have probably been mentioned at least to LE. But, as usual, we have no details.

I'm more concerned with the general description, that is, going from boyfriend look alike to a biggish guy. That bothers me.

Spotlight
05-06-2011, 07:17 PM
Hi everyone, first time poster, very long time lurker. I have one question (at this time), and I hope someone here could answer it for me. Holly has been listed as a "Kidnap" victim on the FBI list. Where I'm from, the difference between someone who has been abducted and a Kidnap victim is, there is a ransom note for a Kidnap victim, whereas there is no note from a person who has been abducted. I hope someone here can clear this up for me.

Woe.be.gone
05-06-2011, 07:23 PM
So I wonder what is next after people search their properties, in a perfect world everyone does this? With holding so much info back for their own reasons in regards to any future suspect(s), what else can the general public do? I am assuming locals are being vigil in looking to see who did not show up for work etc. What next? They have cut back the public searches and are doing their own. This could go on forever. Just wait and see? Sorry if I am becoming a bit impatient. They give you nothing to go on but what expect you will find the miracle evidence?

I don't want to be a downer but I just assumed LE meant peeps should look for a nonliving person. Now, I have no idea if I'm right about that, but that's where my mind went. That said, that doesn't mean they know for sure that Holly is deceased, they're just trying to rule out that possibility out and that she is not laying somewhere hidden but out in the open.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 07:26 PM
Hi everyone, first time poster, very long time lurker. I have one question (at this time), and I hope someone here could answer it for me. Holly has been listed as a "Kidnap" victim on the FBI list. Where I'm from, the difference between someone who has been abducted and a Kidnap victim is, there is a ransom note for a Kidnap victim, whereas there is no note from a person who has been abducted. I hope someone here can clear this up for me.

I think she is listed that way because it was a witnessed abduction, as opposed to the others listed as "missing" who may also have been kidnapped but no one saw it happen. I don't think a note has to factor into it at all.

liljim
05-06-2011, 07:26 PM
woe- what i was thinking about that was that at first he thinks it is the boyfriend so he says "yeah the guy was just about the size of her boyfriend", then after talking with LE they say "ok, but now that you know that it wasnt the boyfriend, tell me how much taller than holly was this person? if we assume that it was not the boyfriend, does anything else now stand out?"

and he says 'yeah you know maybe he did seem too tall to be her boyfriend" etc...

complete speculation by me.

edit - sorry i should have quoted - what im referring to is woe talking about the change in size in the suspect descriptions.

nursebeeme
05-06-2011, 07:29 PM
if clint saw the camo from a distance (and a glance) it is possible he might eta not~ know the exact pattern...

perhaps... glanced..saw the colors and the height resembling the boyfriend and his mind making the logical leap..

I mean who looks out the window to even have this thought process in their brain.. that the person walking off into the woods with your sister is a sinister attacker.

If you look at the woodline from the house.. it is a good distance from any window of that house.

also further thoughts/just speculating..

it has been shown in photos during sleuthing here that the carport is behind the house... is it possible that clint was in the shower or getting dressed when he heard the scream that made him look out the window.. he than sees what he sees from that distance... walks out the door back around to his own car to go to work and sees holly's car still there when she should have been gone and also blood..

moo

wfgodot
05-06-2011, 07:33 PM
Hi everyone, first time poster, very long time lurker. I have one question (at this time), and I hope someone here could answer it for me. Holly has been listed as a "Kidnap" victim on the FBI list. Where I'm from, the difference between someone who has been abducted and a Kidnap victim is, there is a ransom note for a Kidnap victim, whereas there is no note from a person who has been abducted. I hope someone here can clear this up for me.

Hi Spotlight, and welcome to WS.

Woe.be.gone
05-06-2011, 07:58 PM
I wish someone from the family would make a clear statement of what the facts were on April 13.

Are we certain that two 911 calls were made? Not that I know of, yet sometimes I read a post that sounds like that's a given.

Are we certain as to who even made the first 911 call? Mom or brother?

Are we certain the blood has anything to do with the case?

Was there blood on the lunch box or was that misspoken?

Why was Holly bringing a lunch when it's been reported she was going to school just to take a test?

I'd better leave now cuz I'm in a real bad mood (tired) and don't have anything to contribute right now. I hope LE cracks the case soon.

Emma Peel
05-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Hi everyone, first time poster, very long time lurker. I have one question (at this time), and I hope someone here could answer it for me. Holly has been listed as a "Kidnap" victim on the FBI list. Where I'm from, the difference between someone who has been abducted and a Kidnap victim is, there is a ransom note for a Kidnap victim, whereas there is no note from a person who has been abducted. I hope someone here can clear this up for me.

For this discussion, please read along Holly's thread #19 - begins with this post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #19




basically (IIRC) - kidnapping... obviously involves abduction, but also involves holding someone against will - and as a criminal charge is carries some weight, and aggravated kidnapping becomes a very very serious charge. a number of things can make a kidnapping aggravated.

:wagon:

Carla Lashelle
05-06-2011, 08:22 PM
I wish someone from the family would make a clear statement of what the facts were on April 13.

Are we certain that two 911 calls were made? Not that I know of, yet sometimes I read a post that sounds like that's a given.

Are we certain as to who even made the first 911 call? Mom or brother?

Are we certain the blood has anything to do with the case?

Was there blood on the lunch box or was that misspoken?

Why was Holly bringing a lunch when it's been reported she was going to school just to take a test?

I'd better leave now cuz I'm in a real bad mood (tired) and don't have anything to contribute right now. I hope LE cracks the case soon.

Yes two 911 calls. Brother made one of them. Unidentified female made the other

Blood has been tested. No results made public.

No blood on lunch bag

she could have been going to school at 8 but had a test at 2 PM... dont know her exact schedule. Why she had the lunch bag is sort of moot. Her mom packed it and she had it. Her schedule for that day had not been well detailed. basically she was going to school...

Kimster
05-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Hi everyone, first time poster, very long time lurker. I have one question (at this time), and I hope someone here could answer it for me. Holly has been listed as a "Kidnap" victim on the FBI list. Where I'm from, the difference between someone who has been abducted and a Kidnap victim is, there is a ransom note for a Kidnap victim, whereas there is no note from a person who has been abducted. I hope someone here can clear this up for me.

:wagon:

So glad to have you join us! :blowkiss:

Jo in Calif
05-06-2011, 08:43 PM
Someones photo bucket has a picture of both Holly and her boy friend in turkey camo clothing.
I'm not real good at finding that stuff, but I know some on here can find it in a minute.
You can distinguish turkey camo from military camo, turkey camo has foliage on it.

Irish_Eyes
05-06-2011, 08:48 PM
Okay. Lots of questions indeed.
And, lacking further info- I'm going to go back to thinking about this individual:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/robert-william-fisher

He matches a lot of similar reports, and has not been located yet.
Have there been any reports of arson or fires associated within the area?
Thoughts, ya'll?

This isn't the first time I've seen someone suggest this guy, but I think I missed something. Why would this guy be involved? The only info I know about him is what's at the above link, but he is a family annhilator, so the MO is very different and he's from the complete opposite side of the country. He's not at all the local boy turned abductor that LE is describing. ??????? When you say he matches a lot of similar reports, what does that mean? Were there reportings of him being in Tennessee???

SmoothOperator
05-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Not sure if this helps or not, but just putting it out there in regards to the question about kidnap vs. abduction and that HB's is listed as kidnap..

In the Hailey Dunn case, 13 yr old missing from CCity, Texas whom supposedly was last seen leaving her home(Dec 27) by her mom's boyfriend who states that Hailey told him to relay to the mom she was stopping off by her dad's house and then going to a friend's to spend the night... Hailey has never been seen again. In the affidavits that have been released per the FOI it is stated as a 3rd degree kidnapping and that LE believe the mom's white 2000 chevy lumina was probably used As the mode to transport her. They list the details in the affidavit in order to show cause for a judge to grant the search warrants that LE were seeking in order to test the entire chevy lumina(which they did succeed in getting the SW and have NOT released any of the evidence found in the car&said they wouldn't until it went to trial)...

Hailey still remains "missing" and not a trace of her since Dec 27, the only witness in that case was the mom's bf whom is their only suspect(as CB IMO would be in totally different classification as a witness)...

As I said I don't know if that helps or not but just wanted to show another case that LE STATED was kidnap rather than abduction and it having totally different circumstances(atleast upon first glance)..

One other strange thing is that as was above mentioned that Holly is listed as kidnap on FBI list.. To this day Hailey Dunn has yet to even be added to the FBI's Missing Persons( and many of us still are left scratching our heads over that one??)..


Posting via mobile so please excuse errors as there is not the same amount of control as I'd have posting from my laptop! Thanks! :)

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 09:04 PM
I wonder how FBI decides who they post on their site, as Haleigh Cummings is there and that is thought to be a possible family-type situation, a la Hailey Dunn who is not represented. And nearly everyone is listed as "missing"...only the ones with a witness to a car or person involved seem to be labeled as "kidnapping."

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 09:24 PM
i keep thinking about the blood today, just brainstorming here;

someone that knows her and knows she is pursuing nursing comes out of the woods just as she is leaving, they have blood on them and tell her "oh my god holly, we need you quick, so and so was just shot accidentaly while we were hunting, he is right in here we have to hurry"

*drip* blood on ground, she doesnt resist - but to an observer it does look like she is being ushered quickly into the woods but also not fighting, which works with both witnesses reports. maybe he tells her there is no time for 911 they have to stop the bleeding, gets her far enough into the woods and then subdues/forces her to continue on once she realizes something is up.

if the blood on the ground is blood from an animal that would fit with this scenario.

this is total speculation by me, no idea if other evidence works with this. but if the suspect is in fact a hunter they might be someone who would do something like this, and they might leave items in different places to throw off the trail.

i agree with people that have mentioned scenarios like this sound too much like TV but its just something i thought of today. the blood on the ground puzzles me, i wish we knew whose blood it is. hopefully the police already do.

I had come up with that same scenario. He could have even told her that he had already called 911. As you can see from how long it took for LE to arrive at the Bobo home, if there were a true emergency, it would be helpful to have someone with a medical background already on the scene.

Being an amateur, I don't have much more to go on than what I see on TV. When I was thinking about this scenario, I was thinking what would get ME to go into the woods willingly with someone. TODAY - NOTHING WOULD!

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 09:32 PM
I don't even get why they would put this out there for the public? Do they have to according to law?

To me it seems like they are saying, "Hey if you are operating an unlicensed or unsafe vehicle we'll be looking for you at US 641 in Benton."

Gee...let's see....how many people that are unlicensed are going to take that route today, unless they are totally dense.

Sorry to be so cynical, but I do not get it.

They've been conducting these roadblocks on Friday evenings for awhile now.

nursebeeme
05-06-2011, 09:39 PM
poor Holly... where is she? she is not at home with her family where she needs to be.... the public cares about Holly and what is going on to find her. I pray we hear something of what the investigation is turning up soon.

sumzero
05-06-2011, 09:40 PM
I can't even imagine how CB feels. He must think, "If only I did this..." or "If only I did that." It could have changed the outcome. But how could he know? If it were me, I'm not sure I could handle it. My heart just breaks for him.

cluciano63
05-06-2011, 09:41 PM
Seems she would have put her things down if she was going into the woods willingly, with an idea of helping someone on some sort of ruse. And that she would be more likely to follow him, not allow him so close to her as to appear she was being "led" and "in fear for her life" as we have heard from LE. And though we have not heard, it does not sound as though they were walking in a way that indicated hurrying, i.e. as if someone were injured in the woods.

It is possible, I guess, but I think he showed her a weapon and she froze, that is the only way I can imagine she would not have dropped her belongings.

Some Beach
05-06-2011, 09:42 PM
On foot, a military forced march (the distance a trained soldier can hike at a fast pace during one day) is not much more than 15 miles in heavy woods. Even on roads its something like 20 miles. So I doubt Little Nicky could do it easily on foot. Even in a truck driving 20 miles cross country in the woods (and at night) would take some time and make some noise too.

But again who is this unnamed local source.

I recall reading the post and actually went back to look for it, but couldn't locate the post. Heck, it could be one that was deleted, it's hard to tell.

There are strips of land that are cleared for those gigantic metal electric power lines. This path does exist less than 1/4 mile from the home of the person we were discussing with regard to this post. I suppose it COULD be done on an ATV within 30 minutes or so, but this is all speculation on my part and the perp would certainly have to know that this type of route does exist. But he would definitely have been out of area before the search began. As for the noise, I don't believe anybody would notice at all. At that time of day, the noise could be anything - chainsaws because of the trees being downed from the recent storms, a lawn mower - anything. It certainly wouldn't result in me taking pause to notice.

maskedwoman
05-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Surely the brother would know if the perp was wearing a hat, jacket, etc, or even carrying a weapon. Was the perp pointing a gun at her and forcing her to walk into the woods? A lot of the details just don't add up in this case.

Yes, to the clothing. But that may be a detail the TBI is holding back. If they have few details, they need something only her kidnapper knows. Whether or not he was wearing a hat or jacket might be one. He might not know about a weapon - depending on angle.

maskedwoman
05-06-2011, 11:46 PM
Aparently this leafy lookin stuff is what all dapper turkey hunters should wear.

http://www.txfowlers.com/Breakup_Jacket_pant_Whitewater_Outdoors.asp

as an aside a friend of mine invented a radio control turkey hunting decoy that pops up and down and turns around. Kinda strange but I guess it works or he thinks it will work. It has these big plastic turkeys on top.

OT
The well-dressed turkey hunter doesn't need all that at our house. Apparently our turkeys are, well, stupid. My husband hopped in the golf cart, wearing a tshirt and jeans, to go get the mail and shot a turkey on his way back. In less than 10 minutes. His co-workers had a fit. They said if you could get a turkey sitting in the open, not even wearing camo, you weren't turkey hunting. You were turkey murdering... :floorlaugh:

Back on topic:
More seriously, though, a person can be in full camo without wearing the hood and all that crap, er, stuff. Yeah, stuff. Although her assailant was apparently wearing full camo, he wouldn't necessarily have to have been wearing turkey camo. He might have been wearing pants, shirt, hat and perhaps boots.

In thinking about it, do we know for sure if the assailant was described as wearing "full" camo? Or just camo. Or maybe all camo. For example, if I were confronted by someone wearing jeans and a camo t-shirt, I would describe it differently than I would someone wearing camo shirt and pants and maybe a hat. Although, I would probably say *he was wearing "all' camo. Not sure if I would say "full camo' or not but I'm a girl and maybe that's a guy thing to say.

I was just thinking we can burn a lot of energy trying to figure out this camo thing and it may be not be as big a deal as it seems. :innocent:

T4Tide
05-07-2011, 01:13 AM
Oh, Holly.... I hope you are somewhere safe.:prayer:

wantsthemoon
05-07-2011, 01:19 AM
I havent added much to this discussing, but wanted to let you guys know that on the Friday before Easter, my 16 yr old daughther and traveled to Parsons Tn. Approx 1 1/2 hrs from where we live, to help in the search for Holly. Upon arrival at the fairgrounds, we were instructed to sign in at the tables to the left of the entrance....we gave our drivers license and cell phone number. We were told to go outside, at which point we were instucted to go to the front of the building and catch a bus. Once on the bus we were asked to pick team leaders. Apparently ppl that were familiar with the area volunteered. We were separated into 8 groups of 10 and then were told to search an area (in a grid fashion. arm length apart). This proved to be difficult considered the terrain....steep, slippery, and a large area!!!! Anyway we definately were told what to look for...what she was wearing or carrying)....not sure that we were told not to discuss anything we were looking for or what was discovered. When we met up at the end of the last "gully" that we searched....I realized that I was prob more of a hinderance than a help...at that point, after a huge amout of time (but before any other searchers left) we were taken by van back to the fairgrounds, where we(my daughter and I) helped with kitchen duties.... sorry for going on and on... just wanted to say that they told the searchers what to look for... including what she was last wearing.

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 01:38 AM
I havent added much to this discussing, but wanted to let you guys know that on the Friday before Easter, my 16 yr old daughther and traveled to Parsons Tn. Approx 1 1/2 hrs from where we live, to help in the search for Holly. Upon arrival at the fairgrounds, we were instructed to sign in at the tables to the left of the entrance....we gave our drivers license and cell phone number. We were told to go outside, at which point we were instucted to go to the front of the building and catch a bus. Once on the bus we were asked to pick team leaders. Apparently ppl that were familiar with the area volunteered. We were separated into 8 groups of 10 and then were told to search an area (in a grid fashion. arm length apart). This proved to be difficult considered the terrain....steep, slippery, and a large area!!!! Anyway we definately were told what to look for...what she was wearing or carrying)....not sure that we were told not to discuss anything we were looking for or what was discovered. When we met up at the end of the last "gully" that we searched....I realized that I was prob more of a hinderance than a help...at that point, after a huge amout of time (but before any other searchers left) we were taken by van back to the fairgrounds, where we(my daughter and I) helped with kitchen duties.... sorry for going on and on... just wanted to say that they told the searchers what to look for... including what she was last wearing.

Thanks for telling us...so I wonder why so secret to the public? People will always be out and about on their own and won't know what to be looking for. That is what I don't get. They told hundreds if not thousands of searchers, so why not just release the info?

wantsthemoon
05-07-2011, 01:46 AM
I really cant even begin to explain the reason they wont release what she was wearing when she went out to her car. As I have said...they told the searchers. If I am not mistaken they released everything except what type of shoe she was wearing. Not sure why this wouldnt be in the discription given to the general public. I wish that I was closer....I would spend ever spare second looking....I just pray every day that she is found safe.

Kimster
05-07-2011, 02:01 AM
I really cant even begin to explain the reason they wont release what she was wearing when she went out to her car. As I have said...they told the searchers. If I am not mistaken they released everything except what type of shoe she was wearing. Not sure why this wouldnt be in the discription given to the general public. I wish that I was closer....I would spend ever spare second looking....I just pray every day that she is found safe.

:wagon:

Welcome to our group!!! And thank you for sharing your experience - and a bigger thanks for taking your valuable time to search for precious Holly!!!!

wantsthemoon
05-07-2011, 02:16 AM
thanks for the welcome. I wanted to teach my daughter compassion in addition to truely caring and hoping that should God forbid anything like this happen to her...people would care enough to come and look for her.

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 04:00 AM
I keep thinking about the RSO who has been arrested (Nickell) and wonder if his bail being raised/set at $300K, which I read here earlier, is unusual. It seems high for 2 counts of stalking although it says he has other charges pending, including attempted kidnapping...according to the Jackson County arrest log, he was arrested on 4/16, so if he is by chance Holly's abductor, he must have "abondoned" her before then. It is probably a long shot, but he sure seems to fit.

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/story/Sex-Offender-Charged-With-Stalking-Two-Women-In/cElnYpEyLEWAxwVHnaZkDQ.cspx

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2011, 07:38 AM
I really cant even begin to explain the reason they wont release what she was wearing when she went out to her car. As I have said...they told the searchers. If I am not mistaken they released everything except what type of shoe she was wearing. Not sure why this wouldnt be in the discription given to the general public. I wish that I was closer....I would spend ever spare second looking....I just pray every day that she is found safe.

It has been reported she was wearing sneakers. Not that the description is super helpful but it rules out boots, flats, sandals, etc.

Oriah
05-07-2011, 08:48 AM
This is the description that has been released by LE:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/view

It doesn't contain anything about footwear, unfortunately. Doesn't rule out any sort of footwear.

TxLady2
05-07-2011, 09:13 AM
He also mentioned that it could be that they don't want to taint their questioning of locals. If they truly believe the person is in the community, if certain information is leaked it can help "prepare" a perp for questioning. For example, not releasing the 911 call. No one including the perp knows what exactly the brother saw, or what the second 911 caller heard/saw. That kind of information can be used in questioning potential suspects and in shaky terms, used as leverage/bluff. In his opinion, he thinks the brother saw more of this "guy" than what is being reported and with the protection that was placed around the house....possibly could pick him out of a line up. LE just has to find out who "he" is.
When I mentioned that if the brother got that good of a look at his face, and LE thinks he was known to HB, shouldn't the brother be able to identify him. My buddy told me that even in small town, given that both HB and her brother are young, there is no way they are familiar/know EVERYBODY. It could very well be someone who knew HB but not necessarily the other way around. HE compared it to a smaller high school, and asked if I right after my HS graduation would be able to identify by name a sophmore (whom I should have seen everyday for two years) from 50 yards away....

We used to do an exercise at work, where they flashed a picture of a person for a few seconds and then had everyone write down a description. When comparing them, there were as many variations of descriptions as there were people in the room. No two were identical.
One person can say a person's hair color is light brown, while another would say it is sandy. Another can say the person was 6 ft. tall, and another would guess them to be 5 ft. 10 in. One could say the person was stocky and another would say he was of medium build.
And if the brother knows his sister's height, he might be estimating the guy's height in comparison to his sister's. However, much depends on the shoes he was wearing, or whether he was standing straight or slouching. And he may not have seen him for more than a minute or less, or paid much attention at the time he saw them. It's hard to give an accurate description if you don't know that you are supposed to remember an hour later.

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2011, 09:25 AM
Eyewitnesses are notoriously bad at even the most basic details, especially 1) when they arent expecting to see something 2) when they think they know what they are looking at and dont pay attention 3) when what they see is outside and away from some sort of item that you can use to judge scales.

I watched a show on TV about reported sightings of big cats in areas where big cats dont normally or naturally live. All of the purported photos and videos turned out to be house cats. Put a house cat in tall grass, away from their normal house environment, and people cant tell its a house cat and not a puma or panther. Its the same with a lot of bigfoot photos. Someone points out what looks like Bigfoot standing behind a tree or in the brush. But on further investigation of the site, the item in question is a two foot tall tree stump or cypress knee. Not a 9 foot tall ape.

Oriah
05-07-2011, 09:28 AM
Very true.

Some people do remember details more accurately than others, but those people are usually the people who have to do it for work/business- or simply have that inclination, I guess. Most people seem to not pay attention to small details at all, and have a hard time recollecting anything other than vague details- or are incorrect in their recollection.

Doesn't make anyone guilty at all- just makes it harder to find a missing person. :(





We used to do an exercise at work, where they flashed a picture of a person for a few seconds and then had everyone write down a description. When comparing them, there were as many variations of descriptions as there were people in the room. No two were identical.
One person can say a person's hair color is light brown, while another would say it is sandy. Another can say the person was 6 ft. tall, and another would guess them to be 5 ft. 10 in. One could say the person was stocky and another would say he was of medium build.
And if the brother knows his sister's height, he might be estimating the guy's height in comparison to his sister's. However, much depends on the shoes he was wearing, or whether he was standing straight or slouching. And he may not have seen him for more than a minute or less, or paid much attention at the time he saw them. It's hard to give an accurate description if you don't know that you are supposed to remember an hour later.

shefner
05-07-2011, 09:47 AM
Holly, we are still waiting for you to come home.....

Abba's Tears
05-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Abba Father,

We cannot comprehend how such things happen. But they do; over and over again. Our hearts ache for Holly and all of the missing; but our hurt cannot compare to the pain You feel and the tears You shed when even one of Your children is lost. We hope against hope that somehow they will be returned home, at the same time we mourn with their families and friends as days, months, and even years pass by.

Our efforts to unravel the tangled web of what has happened to Holly and the others is intense, well intentioned, and so very frustrating. If they could be brought home by shear will and love, no one would be gone for more than a brief moment in time. Although we are not capable of such a thing, You are. Merciful Father, surround these innocent victims and their families with your mercy, grace, and love. Fill them with Your strength, and keep their eyes turned to You. You are the only way to survive such devistation. As long as we have You, there is hope. Bring them home Abba, please bring them home.

In Your Holy Son Jesus' name, Amen

sumzero
05-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Amen.

AlexLouise44
05-07-2011, 01:33 PM
Who is abba?

stilettos
05-07-2011, 01:35 PM
Who is abba?

It is hebrew and means Father.

annboleyn2011
05-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Were any articles of clothing found in any of the searches? I know no one is saying anything but I was just wondering out loud? Hypothetically speaking, if there were, would they not want this known to the public? If so, what could their reason be? Do they feel if people believe she is dead if clothing is found, that people would be more less likely to search their properties?

concentric
05-07-2011, 02:14 PM
To my understanding, we don't have a LE statement saying that clothing was found. This is only opinion: There has been some conjecture that possibly the last item found could have been her t-shirt, only because it may have been visible from a roadway.

JustyThoughts
05-07-2011, 02:32 PM
This isn't the first time I've seen someone suggest this guy, but I think I missed something. Why would this guy be involved? The only info I know about him is what's at the above link, but he is a family annhilator, so the MO is very different and he's from the complete opposite side of the country. He's not at all the local boy turned abductor that LE is describing. ??????? When you say he matches a lot of similar reports, what does that mean? Were there reportings of him being in Tennessee???

May be just a long shot; but since our wealth of knowledge about the abductor is at about zero, nada, nothing.... he seems as good as anyone to consider.

The curious things pointed out about him in my opinion is... he is on the run, has survivalist skills, his listed birthday is April 13 (hummm) and the time he allegedly killed his family & blew up his home was around April 10th. Maybe the date is some trigger, or maybe it is random that the dates align with Holly's disappearance. May be something, may be nuttin.

concentric
05-07-2011, 02:35 PM
There is another fugitive, as I mentioned multiple times earlier, that has a very similar profile, but lived in an adjoining state to Tennessee.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 02:51 PM
Here's an article that mentions that Holly was wearing tennis shoes.

http://midsouthnewz.com/news/midsouth-regional-news/thp-qnew-tacticsq-in-holly-bobo-search.html

Also talks about Nickell and his arrest on April 18.

concentric
05-07-2011, 02:58 PM
I think we've arrived at some commonalities in our thinking:

Sex offenders released into a community should be thoroughly investigated.

If a fugitive is that successful at remaining "fugitive" he is very capable at hiding.

Some abductors have few, if any: "priors". So, it could be someone very new to a life of crime, who has some "suspicious" markers.

I would appreciate any of our sleuths to expand on or extrapolate on the above categories of offenders.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 02:58 PM
Here's the article wherein the residence of Nickell is discussed regarding the proximity to Bobo's residence through the woods.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-big-city-crime-comes-to-small-tight-knit-community-safety-tips

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 03:09 PM
Here's an article that mentions that Holly was wearing tennis shoes.

http://midsouthnewz.com/news/midsouth-regional-news/thp-qnew-tacticsq-in-holly-bobo-search.html

Also talks about Nickell and his arrest on April 18.

On an arrest log from Jackson County I came across last night, he was listed on 4/16 so not really sure when he was arrested.

concentric
05-07-2011, 03:11 PM
Here's the article wherein the residence of Nickell is discussed regarding the proximity to Bobo's residence through the woods.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-big-city-crime-comes-to-small-tight-knit-community-safety-tips

Hi, Woe be gone,

I have posted that I think responses following any music videos with Holly's cousin be looked into.

While I cannot say that anything is connected, I note that there is at least one very disturbing comment posted. I suggested that LE look into these comments to see whether or not they were posted by the same person who would be suspect to Holly's dissapearance. One of the comments was in essence:
you don't know what I would do to her (the cousin).
I am a victim and I know what a victimizer would say.

concentric
05-07-2011, 03:13 PM
On an arrest log from Jackson County I came across last night, he was listed on 4/16 so not really sure when he was arrested.

I posted the arrest date from a news source earlier on these threads.

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 03:20 PM
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/99999999/DATABASE/71130005/Jackson-Daily-Arrest-Report-database?appSession=686295375745323

This is where I saw the date of 4/16, a Saturday, and then the articles first appeared on 4/18.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 03:27 PM
This list of arrests has Nickell listed as being arrested on April 16, three days after Holly's abduction.

http://www.cityofjackson.net/departments/police/dailyarrests.html

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 03:31 PM
On an arrest log from Jackson County I came across last night, he was listed on 4/16 so not really sure when he was arrested.

ha! I just saw that too and posted the link above.

I wish reporters would check their facts.

concentric
05-07-2011, 03:33 PM
Before I forget: My post #197, thread #20:

Date that sex offender was arrested, in case it hasn't been posted yet:

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/sto...wVHnaZkDQ.cspx

On Monday, April 18, 2011, police arrested Nickell

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 03:42 PM
So if LE arrested this guy (Nickell) three days after Holly went missing and locked him up, I bet he is a prime suspect. Normally, I don't think they would hold him on the stalking charges alone (even though I think they should).

This reminds me of how they held Casey Anthony in jail based on her stealing and banking misrepresentations while investigating Caylee's whereabouts. They had strong suspisions of her knowing where her daughter was and that she had done something to her but needed time to find proof (I hope I'm saying that right).

Even if Nickell is not the guy, he should be locked up. Stalkers are dangerous people imo and off balance individuals in general.

maskedwoman
05-07-2011, 03:43 PM
Here's the article wherein the residence of Nickell is discussed regarding the proximity to Bobo's residence through the woods.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-big-city-crime-comes-to-small-tight-knit-community-safety-tips

I tend to discount the comment attributed to a 'local' about getting through those woods in about 15 minutes. Driving from Nickell's house to Holly's is about 20 miles and would take 40 minutes to drive. It's almost all side roads, with relatively low speed limits, and google is assuming an average of about 30 mph.

A fairly straight shot between the two locations doesn't have much woods for cover. Even if it did, the route shown by google is fairly straight. I doubt a route through the woods would be much straighter. To take an ATV from one place to the other in 15 minutes would require a speed somewhere close to 45 or 50 mph through these heavy, allegedly impenetrable woods. I find that hard to believe.

Also, to remain hidden, the person would have to swing wide to the left to avoid the more developed areas, which would make the travel time longer. You could probably get through the woods to a vehicle parked close by fairly quickly, but I don't think you could get from her place to his anywhere near that fast.

1815 Liberty Church Road Holladay TN - Google Maps

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Before I forget: My post #197, thread #20:

Date that sex offender was arrested, in case it hasn't been posted yet:

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/sto...wVHnaZkDQ.cspx

On Monday, April 18, 2011, police arrested Nickell

link won't work for me.
O'kay so he was arrested on the 16th but not held and then arrested on the 18th and held. Is that what could have happened? He's not listed for April 18 on the list posted above.

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 03:46 PM
One article says he has other charges pending from another county (Dickson, maybe?) and one is "Attempted kidnapping." That might account for the high bail? I wish the charges were more detailed...

He has to be in the mix, unless he was someplace unimpeachable on April 13.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 03:48 PM
I tend to discount the comment attributed to a 'local' about getting through those woods in about 15 minutes. Driving from Nickell's house to Holly's is about 20 miles and would take 40 minutes to drive. It's almost all side roads, with relatively low speed limits, and google is assuming an average of about 30 mph.

A fairly straight shot between the two locations doesn't have much woods for cover. Even if it did, the route shown by google is fairly straight. I doubt a route through the woods would be much straighter. To take an ATV from one place to the other in 15 minutes would require a speed somewhere close to 45 or 50 mph through these heavy, allegedly impenetrable woods. I find that hard to believe.

Also, to remain hidden, the person would have to swing wide to the left to avoid the more developed areas, which would make the travel time longer. You could probably get through the woods to a vehicle parked close by fairly quickly, but I don't think you could get from her place to his anywhere near that fast.

1815 Liberty Church Road Holladay TN - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?rlz=1T4GGLL_enUS411US411&q=1815+Liberty+Church+Road+Holladay+TN&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=1815+Liberty+Church+Rd,+Holladay,+TN+38341&gl=us&ei=A5zFTZTzFYjVgAey9_XLBA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ8gEwAA)

google link not working - oh, now it's working, good.
I looked at that too. It looks pretty tree filled (that's an understatement!). Yet when I went to satellite there is a road to the west with a town Bible Hill near to Parsons that looks more like a country road - not sure about that one - if it would cut the time down a lot. Except Holly's house is in Darden. Heck!

Anyway, I was posting where the info/idea came from because somebody had been looking for where it originated.

concentric
05-07-2011, 03:49 PM
I just copied what my post was. The news link was functioning at the time I posted it. Why it is not functioning at present is anyone's guess.

grandmaj
05-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Just copy and pasting a previous link doesn't work. Here you go

http://www.abc24.com/mostpopular/story/Sex-Offender-Charged-With-Stalking-Two-Women-In/cElnYpEyLEWAxwVHnaZkDQ.cspx

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 04:07 PM
I just copied what my post was. The news link was functioning at the time I posted it. Why it is not functioning at present is anyone's guess.

So the article states Nickell was arrested on April 18 but the Jackson Arrest Log states he was arrested April 16. That's what we're trying to decipher - which one is right.
I'd vote for the arrest log, no?

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 04:14 PM
So the article states Nickell was arrested on April 18 but the Jackson Arrest Log states he was arrested April 16. That's what we're trying to decipher - which one is right.
I'd vote for the arrest log, no?

I would think the log has to be right...but no guarantees. Very strange in any event. The whole thing is strange with him-he fits, but he doesn't fit. Sounds like with the other women, he did not even try to hide from them. He must have escalated into violent action very quickly, if he took Holly, and left her behind pretty quickly.

I still can't see her walking away toward the woods with anyone she didn't know and trust OR someone with a gun on her. Nothing else makes any sense to me. If someone used a ruse to get her into the woods, I still think it would have to be someone she knows. What young woman would go off with a strange man into the woods, for any reason? If, for instance, he had told her her dog was injured, she would have been running.

SmoothOperator
05-07-2011, 04:21 PM
Re: Nickell's pending charges for kidnapping, simple assault, etc in Dickson have been withdrawn.

I can't link, but if you'll go to the link from woe.be.gone examiner.com "big city crime hits small tight knit community" and scroll about half way down to the "Attempted kidnapping in Dickson" it will give you the details of why these charges have been withdrawn. In a nutshell the reasons were completely different description than that of Nickell's, including dark hair and beard, different build, and different vehicle.

So, Nickell's no longer has these additional charges pending.. Which IMO makes me go Hhhhmmmmmm?? Even more about the raising of his bond to $300,000... IMO he's suspect #1 on my personal list(for now atleast..of course that could change easily if we were to learn new info)

Hope that Helps about Nickell's pending charges.


Posting via mobile so please excuse errors as there is not the same amount of control as I'd have posting from my laptop! Thanks! :)

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Has this been posted before?
States 'last update 4/18/11'.

http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/sorint/sordetailart.aspx?htid=SO005150

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 04:25 PM
Having been involved from the morning of Holly's abduction, I wanted to give you my thoughts on the case. These are just my opinions on several of the more conflicting stories.

I believe that the morning Holly was abducted, the person who abducted her startled her by walking up suddenly upon her. I believe she screamed at this time and possibly struggled in the initial contact. I think that this is when she was cut with a sharp object...enough to cause blood to fall. I also think that this scream was heard by the neighbor who called and could possibly be the reason that CB looked out the window. He might have heard the scream and heard voices, but as a person is not expecting a scream in the silence of a nice Wednesday morning, he might not have registered it. When he looked out the window, by this time HB and abductor were going into the woods. If they were at a distance, he wouldn't have been able to tell much. Seeing camo, and having seen her boyfriend in camo dozens of times, he might have just automatically assumed that it was him. He may have told himself that the scream was not really a scream. We don't know if the scream was a short, startled one, or a long one. He may have written it off at that point because who thinks that you are going to see your loved one being abducted? Her walking into the woods with her boyfriend was an infinitely more obvious and acceptable reason than the opposite. Either it bothered him as he was playing it over in his mind, or he may have been going outside for another reason, but for whatever reason, he saw the blood, and her car was still there, and knew that what he saw was not what he thought he saw. Reports are confusing at this point and we don't know if he called 911 at this time or if he called his mother and she called 911. We know there were 2 calls and one was from the neighbor.

Next, LE comes. They quickly determine that this might be an abduction and get a search team together. Having worked for LE myself for many years, I can figure that although roadblocks were set up, they couldn't have possibly been set up for at least an hour from the 911 call and likely longer than that.

I believe that the abductor had a vehicle hidden. I don't know if it was a car, truck, or ATV, but he took Holly in a vehicle and was out of the area before roadblocks were set up. I don't think they were in the woods for long.

I'm confused myself on why the lunch bag was found 8 miles from HB's house. To me, he either attempted to fool LE or, more likely, he just was taking a route that way and threw the bag. I don't know if the duct tape belongs to HB or not, but if it does, this would have been where the vehicle was parked. I feel that he was in control of her from the minute he stepped into the woods with her. I think he did tape her mouth, but used the knife to control her. If she'd already been cut, she would be terrified of any further injury. If the tape was on her mouth, he could have pulled it off before getting into the car so that he could converse with her. Remember, she is the prize that he had obviously stalked and he probably is dying to hear her voice. I don't believe that this person is a "local"...even though LE has reported that they believe that. I also believe that the cell phone and SIM card are just another part of Holly's belongings that he threw out to get rid of. Perhaps he came back a day or two later and threw the phone out the window just to trick LE into thinking that they were still in the same area, whereas they were miles away, at his place.

I think that the abductor is either the RSO above mentioned, or someone completely unknown to everyone. I think that if it is either one above, that they first saw her somewhere (whether it be at school, out with her friends, or shopping at a grocery store). I think that this person took Holly to a location that was set up and pre-planned by him. I have a strong feeling that it is the RSO, but I'm not positive. I can't help but compare the cases between her and Heather Sullivan. I just can't wrap my mind around a man trying to stalk women all so close in their location. The only hesitation that I have about this guy is that his MO of stalking women in his vehicle was not known to be like the attempted abduction of Heather Sullivan and Holly, but he could have advanced in his obsession to this.

I think that local searches were called off and we have heard absolute silence from LE is because they feel this RSO is their man and they are trying to make him give up the location of Holly. I have never once felt or said that Holly is no longer with us, but as time goes on, it seems unlikely that she could survive all this time somewhere while he is incarcerated. I just HOPE that Heather Sullivan will be able to identify him somewhat, even though it was dark and she had a light shining in her eyes.

I am not concerned of LE giving us news or making sure that WE (the public) have information about any of this. I would guess that no one on this board could do anything at all even with more information. And, it could jeopardize the case immensely.

I truly feel that this case will be solved soon and I don't think that a "local" will be arrested. I tend to think that the abductor is already incarcerated. It's just been too quiet lately.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 04:29 PM
I would think the log has to be right...but no guarantees. Very strange in any event. The whole thing is strange with him-he fits, but he doesn't fit. Sounds like with the other women, he did not even try to hide from them. He must have escalated into violent action very quickly, if he took Holly, and left her behind pretty quickly.

I still can't see her walking away toward the woods with anyone she didn't know and trust OR someone with a gun on her. Nothing else makes any sense to me. If someone used a ruse to get her into the woods, I still think it would have to be someone she knows. What young woman would go off with a strange man into the woods, for any reason? If, for instance, he had told her her dog was injured, she would have been running.

Plus I just saw that a J. Nickell was married in Vegas about 14 years ago in April. Maybe April is a emotional month for him when bad things happen.
There's no middle initial so there's no way to tell if the same guy.

I agree that Holly probably wouldn't just walk away into the woods with some guy. She'd have the sense to offer to call 911 if the guy said someone was in the woods in distress. :twocents:

SmoothOperator
05-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Ok I've got a big question with regard to the blood found somewhere on the Bobo property by the brother(I say somewhere because reports have been conflicting, confused, contradicting as to whether it was in a carport, in front of carport, in the grass, in front of a doorway, etc,etc)

For instance in using norestforthewicked's above post theorizing that she was initially cut within first moments of contact with the perp.. And this as a possibility to explain the blood found.. We know for absolute certain that at some point after the blood was dropped, dripped that Holly was then led into the woods by the perp..

My question is this how would there have not been more blood(even droplets from a minor cut or injury)found leading into the woods?? And even in the actual woods the likelihood that there would have been at minimum droplets of blood IMO WOULD ONLY be expected??

Does that make sense?

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 04:46 PM
Plus I just saw that a J. Nickell was married in Vegas about 14 years ago in April. Maybe April is a emotional month for him when bad things happen.
There's no middle initial so there's no way to tell if the same guy.

I agree that Holly probably wouldn't just walk away into the woods with some guy. She'd have the sense to offer to call 911 if the guy said someone was in the woods in distress. :twocents:

As I stated above, I think that Holly DID walk into the woods. I don't think anyone tried to trick her and give her the opportunity to run. I think it was all business, with a knife as a threatening weapon and I think she did what she was told. I think that many people would react this way.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 04:48 PM
Ok I've got a big question with regard to the blood found somewhere on the Bobo property by the brother(I say somewhere because reports have been conflicting, confused, contradicting as to whether it was in a carport, in front of carport, in the grass, in front of a doorway, etc,etc)

For instance in using norestforthewicked's above post theorizing that she was initially cut within first moments of contact with the perp.. And this as a possibility to explain the blood found.. We know for absolute certain that at some point after the blood was dropped, dripped that Holly was then led into the woods by the perp..

My question is this how would there have not been more blood(even droplets from a minor cut or injury)found leading into the woods?? And even in the actual woods the likelihood that there would have been at minimum droplets of blood IMO WOULD ONLY be expected??

Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. It doesn't really matter though in the grand scheme of things where the blood was. We don't know the exact location even of where she walked into the woods and there was reported to be blood (flecks) in some areas in the grass (not sure where). It would make sense to me that the abductor put something on the bleeding right away just so as to NOT leave a trail. Even ripping a piece off of his or her clothing would accomplish this. Hope that makes sense.

SmoothOperator
05-07-2011, 04:55 PM
I agree that the RSO in custody could very well be the perp that abducted Holly. But let's not confuse the separate cases that exist.

The man incarcerated that is listed as violent RSO is not arrested for anything related to Heather Sullivan.. He is arrested on charges of stalking, harassing 2 different college girls at different shopping locales(target and Union university dorm for one and Old Hickory mall and Kohls Dept store for the other girl)..

He does not even remotely fit the description of Heather Sullivans perp, skinny, slim, 6 ft, 150lbs.. Nickell is a BIG GUY 6ft, 210+lbs..and with him indeed being incarcerated I would find that most likely that if anyone were even remotely suspicious that Nickell could be Heathers perp(LE or Heather after seeing his pic online/news articles) if they or Heather thought for a moment that this was even possibly her perp I would say that they've already had Heather identify whether it was yay or nay on Nickell being the guy that grabbed her outside her home..

So tho I do agree that Nickell is quite likely who took Holly and that the end result does not look promising.. He(Nickell) however is not the perp In Heather Sullivans case. At this point he is presently tied to 2 separate 19 yr old college girls from different colleges..

HTH :)

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 04:56 PM
Re: Nickell's pending charges for kidnapping, simple assault, etc in Dickson have been withdrawn.

I can't link, but if you'll go to the link from woe.be.gone examiner.com "big city crime hits small tight knit community" and scroll about half way down to the "Attempted kidnapping in Dickson" it will give you the details of why these charges have been withdrawn. In a nutshell the reasons were completely different description than that of Nickell's, including dark hair and beard, different build, and different vehicle.

So, Nickell's no longer has these additional charges pending.. Which IMO makes me go Hhhhmmmmmm?? Even more about the raising of his bond to $300,000... IMO he's suspect #1 on my personal list(for now atleast..of course that could change easily if we were to learn new info)

Hope that Helps about Nickell's pending charges.


Posting via mobile so please excuse errors as there is not the same amount of control as I'd have posting from my laptop! Thanks! :)

It took me awhile to figure out where you meant to read but I finally found it in that same Examiner article toward the bottom.
http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-big-city-crime-comes-to-small-tight-knit-community-safety-tips

Nickell has been arrested for one incident. The other incident he, although he would fit the profile, he has been outruled as the perp.

He's still in jail and imo is being looked at as a suspect in Holly's case. Again, IMO.

At first I thought you were saying that Nickell was off the hook.

Oriah
05-07-2011, 04:57 PM
As I stated above, I think that Holly DID walk into the woods. I don't think anyone tried to trick her and give her the opportunity to run. I think it was all business, with a knife as a threatening weapon and I think she did what she was told. I think that many people would react this way.

Wondering what ya'll think- if that is/was the situation- do you think people in the local community need to be concerned for their safety? Or those in the surrounding communities?

I just can't get past an FBI MP report about a kidnapping with the suspect still unknown and at large. :eek:

Hope everyone in the area is keeping eyes wide open. He's got to be somewhere.

SmoothOperator
05-07-2011, 05:05 PM
Sorry to have been confusing about the link and Nickell's pending charges out of Dickson being withdrawn. It sucks not being able to post the actual link and instead had to describe the link.

Thanks for posting the link woe.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:07 PM
Having been involved from the morning of Holly's abduction, I wanted to give you my thoughts on the case. These are just my opinions on several of the more conflicting stories.

I believe that the morning Holly was abducted, the person who abducted her startled her by walking up suddenly upon her. I believe she screamed at this time and possibly struggled in the initial contact. I think that this is when she was cut with a sharp object...enough to cause blood to fall. I also think that this scream was heard by the neighbor who called and could possibly be the reason that CB looked out the window. He might have heard the scream and heard voices, but as a person is not expecting a scream in the silence of a nice Wednesday morning, he might not have registered it. When he looked out the window, by this time HB and abductor were going into the woods. If they were at a distance, he wouldn't have been able to tell much. Seeing camo, and having seen her boyfriend in camo dozens of times, he might have just automatically assumed that it was him. He may have told himself that the scream was not really a scream. We don't know if the scream was a short, startled one, or a long one. He may have written it off at that point because who thinks that you are going to see your loved one being abducted? Her walking into the woods with her boyfriend was an infinitely more obvious and acceptable reason than the opposite. Either it bothered him as he was playing it over in his mind, or he may have been going outside for another reason, but for whatever reason, he saw the blood, and her car was still there, and knew that what he saw was not what he thought he saw. Reports are confusing at this point and we don't know if he called 911 at this time or if he called his mother and she called 911. We know there were 2 calls and one was from the neighbor.

Next, LE comes. They quickly determine that this might be an abduction and get a search team together. Having worked for LE myself for many years, I can figure that although roadblocks were set up, they couldn't have possibly been set up for at least an hour from the 911 call and likely longer than that.

I believe that the abductor had a vehicle hidden. I don't know if it was a car, truck, or ATV, but he took Holly in a vehicle and was out of the area before roadblocks were set up. I don't think they were in the woods for long.

I'm confused myself on why the lunch bag was found 8 miles from HB's house. To me, he either attempted to fool LE or, more likely, he just was taking a route that way and threw the bag. I don't know if the duct tape belongs to HB or not, but if it does, this would have been where the vehicle was parked. I feel that he was in control of her from the minute he stepped into the woods with her. I think he did tape her mouth, but used the knife to control her. If she'd already been cut, she would be terrified of any further injury. If the tape was on her mouth, he could have pulled it off before getting into the car so that he could converse with her. Remember, she is the prize that he had obviously stalked and he probably is dying to hear her voice. I don't believe that this person is a "local"...even though LE has reported that they believe that. I also believe that the cell phone and SIM card are just another part of Holly's belongings that he threw out to get rid of. Perhaps he came back a day or two later and threw the phone out the window just to trick LE into thinking that they were still in the same area, whereas they were miles away, at his place.

I think that the abductor is either the RSO above mentioned, or someone completely unknown to everyone. I think that if it is either one above, that they first saw her somewhere (whether it be at school, out with her friends, or shopping at a grocery store). I think that this person took Holly to a location that was set up and pre-planned by him. I have a strong feeling that it is the RSO, but I'm not positive. I can't help but compare the cases between her and Heather Sullivan. I just can't wrap my mind around a man trying to stalk women all so close in their location. The only hesitation that I have about this guy is that his MO of stalking women in his vehicle was not known to be like the attempted abduction of Heather Sullivan and Holly, but he could have advanced in his obsession to this.

I think that local searches were called off and we have heard absolute silence from LE is because they feel this RSO is their man and they are trying to make him give up the location of Holly. I have never once felt or said that Holly is no longer with us, but as time goes on, it seems unlikely that she could survive all this time somewhere while he is incarcerated. I just HOPE that Heather Sullivan will be able to identify him somewhat, even though it was dark and she had a light shining in her eyes.

I am not concerned of LE giving us news or making sure that WE (the public) have information about any of this. I would guess that no one on this board could do anything at all even with more information. And, it could jeopardize the case immensely.

I truly feel that this case will be solved soon and I don't think that a "local" will be arrested. I tend to think that the abductor is already incarcerated. It's just been too quiet lately.

What's your opinion on why the dogs didn't pick up Holly's scent going into the woods and onward?

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2011, 05:12 PM
What's your opinion on why the dogs didn't pick up Holly's scent going into the woods and onward?

Because he had a vehicle parked inside the tree line or behind it. We dont know where they went into th woods but in several directions it would not have been too hard to have a vehicle parked.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:16 PM
What's your opinion on why the dogs didn't pick up Holly's scent going into the woods and onward?

I believe that he picked her up and carried her once she was in the woods. And, I believe his car was very close by.

Cubbies2010
05-07-2011, 05:16 PM
I know a screen shot of part of this has been posted, but I had not previously seen the surrounding property also. This is really interesting to look at IMO. By panning out, you can see land around the Bobo's and by panning in, you can see some trails. I just cannot really figure out how he got her out or there, if he did, unless he was parked close by.
http://tnmap.state.tn.us/assessment/map.aspx?GISLink=020041++++00400

Look at aerial photography view

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:17 PM
Yes, that makes sense. It doesn't really matter though in the grand scheme of things where the blood was. We don't know the exact location even of where she walked into the woods and there was reported to be blood (flecks) in some areas in the grass (not sure where). It would make sense to me that the abductor put something on the bleeding right away just so as to NOT leave a trail. Even ripping a piece off of his or her clothing would accomplish this. Hope that makes sense.

Man it would be great if the blood is Nickell's blood type and not Holly's.
The only thing is then where is Holly?

And, as far as we know, this guy hasn't killed anyone in his past. I sure hope and pray that's not the case here.

shefner
05-07-2011, 05:18 PM
While I believe Holly was startled by the abductor, I don't think she was injured at that initial time....because she didn't drop her lunch bag or books. I don't know what I think about the blood. But I don't think its Holly's.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:19 PM
I believe that he picked her up and carried her once she was in the woods. And, I believe his car was very close by.

I hope they brought the dogs back then to see if they could pick of Nickell's scent. They may have something like that on him.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:23 PM
I agree that the RSO in custody could very well be the perp that abducted Holly. But let's not confuse the separate cases that exist.

The man incarcerated that is listed as violent RSO is not arrested for anything related to Heather Sullivan.. He is arrested on charges of stalking, harassing 2 different college girls at different shopping locales(target and Union university dorm for one and Old Hickory mall and Kohls Dept store for the other girl)..

He does not even remotely fit the description of Heather Sullivans perp, skinny, slim, 6 ft, 150lbs.. Nickell is a BIG GUY 6ft, 210+lbs..and with him indeed being incarcerated I would find that most likely that if anyone were even remotely suspicious that Nickell could be Heathers perp(LE or Heather after seeing his pic online/news articles) if they or Heather thought for a moment that this was even possibly her perp I would say that they've already had Heather identify whether it was yay or nay on Nickell being the guy that grabbed her outside her home..

So tho I do agree that Nickell is quite likely who took Holly and that the end result does not look promising.. He(Nickell) however is not the perp In Heather Sullivans case. At this point he is presently tied to 2 separate 19 yr old college girls from different colleges..

HTH :)

I'm not at all confusing cases. I said in my first post that I thought the stalking cases of the girl in the car were not the same MO as Holly and Heather S.

Regarding the next part. We DON'T know if he has been identified by Heather or not. We have no knowledge of what they know. I don't believe that the media either has that knowledge to report that or not.

The latest description of the abductor fits Nickell. I am leaving in a few and don't have time to look, but there is a new (updated) version of the abductor.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:24 PM
Wondering what ya'll think- if that is/was the situation- do you think people in the local community need to be concerned for their safety? Or those in the surrounding communities?

I just can't get past an FBI MP report about a kidnapping with the suspect still unknown and at large. :eek:

Hope everyone in the area is keeping eyes wide open. He's got to be somewhere.

It depends. If Holly's abductor proves to be this Nickell guy, he's locked up for now. If not, and it's still another stranger abductor, then maybe. If it's someone Holly knew/knows, then probably not.

I'm a big help! :crazy:

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:27 PM
It took me awhile to figure out where you meant to read but I finally found it in that same Examiner article toward the bottom.
http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/holly-bobo-big-city-crime-comes-to-small-tight-knit-community-safety-tips

Nickell has been arrested for one incident. The other incident he, although he would fit the profile, he has been outruled as the perp.

He's still in jail and imo is being looked at as a suspect in Holly's case. Again, IMO.

At first I thought you were saying that Nickell was off the hook.

See...I know how the media works and I don't take much stock in media reports having all the facts. I have never heard from an LE report that Nickell had been officially ruled out.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:28 PM
I know a screen shot of part of this has been posted, but I had not previously seen the surrounding property also. This is really interesting to look at IMO. By panning out, you can see land around the Bobo's and by panning in, you can see some trails. I just cannot really figure out how he got her out or there, if he did, unless he was parked close by.
http://tnmap.state.tn.us/assessment/map.aspx?GISLink=020041++++00400

Look at aerial photography view

Yes, he was parked close by, in my opinion, because he didn't want to have to take a chance by traveling too far with her. He wanted to contain her as quickly as possible and get her out of the area.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:29 PM
Man it would be great if the blood is Nickell's blood type and not Holly's.
The only thing is then where is Holly?

And, as far as we know, this guy hasn't killed anyone in his past. I sure hope and pray that's not the case here.

I agree with you! But, if by chance it was him who was injured instead of her, it might be able to match DNA, but it still wouldn't help in where Holly was...:(

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 05:31 PM
While I believe Holly was startled by the abductor, I don't think she was injured at that initial time....because she didn't drop her lunch bag or books. I don't know what I think about the blood. But I don't think its Holly's.

I agree...I don't see that happening either, her being injured and not leaving anything behind.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:31 PM
While I believe Holly was startled by the abductor, I don't think she was injured at that initial time....because she didn't drop her lunch bag or books. I don't know what I think about the blood. But I don't think its Holly's.

We don't know that Holly had books in her hands. That has never been reported to my knowledge. And, what if she had a backpack with books and her lunch bag on her shoulder? I fell down a flight of stairs once with a backpack and my lunch bag and when I hit the bottom, they were still on my shoulder.

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2011, 05:33 PM
I believe that he picked her up and carried her once she was in the woods. And, I believe his car was very close by.

Actually dogs dont follow scent on the ground per se like footprints. So if he carried her the dogs would still follow that. Its the same as if you were on a bike. Just because your feet dont touch the ground doesnt mean the dogs cant follow.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:33 PM
While I believe Holly was startled by the abductor, I don't think she was injured at that initial time....because she didn't drop her lunch bag or books. I don't know what I think about the blood. But I don't think its Holly's.

Yes, I have a hard time picturing Holly being swept off her feet while she continued to hold on to her lunch bag/purse. It seems to me she'd drop stuff when she was picked up. Now, if she was led at knife point, I can imagine her sort of freezing without wanting to make any type of move and walk with everything intact where he led. But then her scent should be present. :waitasec:

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 05:33 PM
We don't know that Holly had books in her hands. That has never been reported to my knowledge. And, what if she had a backpack with books and her lunch bag on her shoulder? I fell down a flight of stairs once with a backpack and my lunch bag and when I hit the bottom, they were still on my shoulder.

LE never mentioned a backpack or asked searchers to look for one, that we have heard. They did mention a purse, keys and books and a phone, I believe.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:37 PM
Actually dogs dont follow scent on the ground per se like footprints. So if he carried her the dogs would still follow that. Its the same as if you were on a bike. Just because your feet dont touch the ground doesnt mean the dogs cant follow.

It really depends on the type of tracking dog. The main way that a person is tracked is by the crushed and trampled vegetation and the smell that the person has. It is true that a fully clothed person still lets off dead cells, etc. to assist in tracking, but this is really a hit and miss thing. If he had his car close by, and he got her in the woods and then into a car right away, I think this would be the reason that the dogs couldn't get the scent.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:38 PM
LE never mentioned a backpack or asked searchers to look for one, that we have heard. They did mention a purse, keys and books and a phone, I believe.

No, they didn't mention a backpack OR a purse. I think there are many things that have not been mentioned by LE to keep something close to the vest.

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2011, 05:39 PM
It really depends on the type of tracking dog. The main way that a person is tracked is by the crushed and trampled vegetation and the smell that the person has. It is true that a fully clothed person still lets off dead cells, etc. to assist in tracking, but this is really a hit and miss thing. If he had his car close by, and he got her in the woods and then into a car right away, I think this would be the reason that the dogs couldn't get the scent.

Plus one of the people that said the dogs couldnt track the scent was IMHO discredited and not necessarily believable. JMHO... Its not like LE said it.

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:41 PM
Actually dogs dont follow scent on the ground per se like footprints. So if he carried her the dogs would still follow that. Its the same as if you were on a bike. Just because your feet dont touch the ground doesnt mean the dogs cant follow.

The dogs smell air currents or something - that amazes me. But, even if the perp had a car parked nearby, why couldn't the dogs track Holly at least as far as that distance? The dogs didn't leave the garage as if to follow any distance across the yard the way I understand it.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:42 PM
Plus one of the people that said the dogs couldnt track the scent was IMHO discredited and not necessarily believable. JMHO... Its not like LE said it.

Yeah, I remember that too. The truth is that we know next to nothing of fact really and everything I'm saying is just my gut feeling. But, I'd love nothing more than to be wrong.

SmoothOperator
05-07-2011, 05:42 PM
Respectfully snipped posted of norest4thewicked-
I think that local searches were called off and we have heard absolute silence from LE is because they feel this RSO is their man and they are trying to make him give up the location of Holly. I have never once felt or said that Holly is no longer with us, but as time goes on, it seems unlikely that she could survive all this time somewhere while he is incarcerated. I just HOPE that Heather Sullivan will be able to identify him somewhat, even though it was dark and she had a light shining in her eyes.
(end quote)

Am sorry that I misunderstood. The above comment threw me as it was speaking of RSO incarcerated to be most likely Hollys abductor and hoping that HS could identify him..

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:43 PM
Plus one of the people that said the dogs couldnt track the scent was IMHO discredited and not necessarily believable. JMHO... Its not like LE said it.

link please? I've been under the impression LE said that. I don't know why as they haven't said much but we've been discussing that as fact. :waitasec:

Woe.be.gone
05-07-2011, 05:45 PM
Respectfully snipped posted of norest4thewicked-
I think that local searches were called off and we have heard absolute silence from LE is because they feel this RSO is their man and they are trying to make him give up the location of Holly. I have never once felt or said that Holly is no longer with us, but as time goes on, it seems unlikely that she could survive all this time somewhere while he is incarcerated. I just HOPE that Heather Sullivan will be able to identify him somewhat, even though it was dark and she had a light shining in her eyes.
(end quote)

Am sorry that I misunderstood. The above comment threw me as it was speaking of RSO incarcerated to be most likely Hollys abductor and hoping that HS could identify him..

I thought Heather reported that the perp in her case was a skinny man. That description doesn't fit this Nickell's guy. Am I getting things mixed up?

cluciano63
05-07-2011, 05:46 PM
"Anywhere that's far enough to toss a bag, a purse, jewelry, keys, just something off into the woods," said Jason Greer with the Henderson County Rescue Squad. They are looking along about 30 miles of roads throughout three counties.

A purse was mentioned, actually, as well as keys, jewelry, a bag. Maybe they are not sure what she had with her.

norest4thewicked
05-07-2011, 05:46 PM
Gotta go for a while. Hope this comes to an end soon...

Carla Lashelle
05-07-2011, 05:53 PM
link please? I've been under the impression LE said that. I don't know why as they haven't said much but we've been discussing that as fact. :waitasec:


No its Geraldo and Mark Fuhrman

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4661350/frustration-mounts-in-search-for-holly-bobo

at about 8:44

I suppose you could infer LE said it but its more like "I called so and so and he said he was told that someone said"...