View Full Version : 2011.05.11 Kc sick removed from court
Solace
05-11-2011, 04:59 PM
KC was just removed from Court (albeit walking) and they are waiting on her. She was helped from the courtroom and it was something with her hands.
katydid23
05-11-2011, 05:00 PM
Are they any video links of this yet? I only left for 45 minutes and I missed this.
Blue Jackets fan
05-11-2011, 05:02 PM
She is faking it IMO.
missyjane77
05-11-2011, 05:03 PM
IF she is really having an anxiety attack, I do feel sorry for her. From my experience, those things are very, very scary. When I get them I feel like I'm dying.
concernedmother
05-11-2011, 05:04 PM
Maybe she is trying to get this delayed.
Blue Jackets fan
05-11-2011, 05:05 PM
IF she is really having an anxiety attack, I do feel sorry for her. From my experience, those things are very, very scary. When I get them I feel like I'm dying.
I wish I could feel pity on her. I'm pretty sure the last few momments her kid went through were just as horrifying than Caey having an "illness."
concernedmother
05-11-2011, 05:06 PM
reality is probably sitting in.she may be having panic attacks but all the smily face and flirting she has done this past 3 years I dont feel sorry for her.
zippitydoda
05-11-2011, 05:06 PM
ICA is back at the defense table
LaLaw2000
05-11-2011, 05:07 PM
I am being totally honest when I say this: I was wondering when she may have a seizure like the one she supposedly had at Jessie's one time.
She is now being escorted back into court and seemingly okay.
BetteDavisEyes
05-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Jean Casarez just spoke on HLN that Casey could not move her hands and that is why she left the courtroom.
katydid23
05-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Jean C. was just on PrimeNews, HLN, describing the incident. She said Casey's hands 'would not move.' And the guards were surrounding her, trying to help and they escorted her out of the room.
I know that anxiety attacks make your hands go numb and they feel paralyzed.
SHE IS BACK IN THE COURT!
Melanie
05-11-2011, 05:09 PM
couldn't a been too bad = here she is back at the table.
Mel
azwriter
05-11-2011, 05:09 PM
IF she is really having an anxiety attack, I do feel sorry for her. From my experience, those things are very, very scary. When I get them I feel like I'm dying.
missyjane, I know what you mean. It is a paralizing experience. I can imagine if she's that upset, her arms will begin to feel like they each weigh a ton and her hands would feel that effect. She probably needs something to calm her.
However, meany old unsympathetic me says she did this to herself. Lying always has a way of catching up with someone. jmo
norest4thewicked
05-11-2011, 05:10 PM
Poor POOR Casey! I feel for her sooooo much! NOT!
missyjane77
05-11-2011, 05:10 PM
I hope she's on anxiety meds and/or has access to Xanax or Ativan for the trial.
nursebeeme
05-11-2011, 05:11 PM
http://www.wesh.com/r-video/27858640/detail.html
raw video of her leaving court
krimekat
05-11-2011, 05:11 PM
Yeah, it is called ANXIETY! And there's a pill for it . . .
Take your medicine, KC OR tell us the truth!
grandmaj
05-11-2011, 05:12 PM
If you all recall she had a similar attack when they put her in front of the TV the day Caylee was found. Reality is sinking in. She has been sheltered from it for so long. Allowed to live in her cell, all alone in a fantasy world. Casey is feeling it. But I also feel that something is up between Baez and Casey.
nursebeeme
05-11-2011, 05:12 PM
wow... she is crazy
onewick
05-11-2011, 05:14 PM
Heck if I was on trial facing the Death Penalty, I would have an anxienty attack too! If she told the truth, she wouldn't be in this position. So no sympathy here!
Blue Jackets fan
05-11-2011, 05:14 PM
Yeah, it is called ANXIETY! And there's a pill for it . . .
Take your medicine, KC OR tell us the truth!
Yea Busipone is a good one there.
HOTNTX
05-11-2011, 05:15 PM
Jean Casarez just spoke on HLN that Casey could not move her hands and that is why she left the courtroom.
Jean Casarez was just on HLN and said that KC couldn't move her hands. She is totally losing it. She can't handle the pressure of jury selection? What the hell will she do when the prosecutors start there case? No cowtowing parents trying to placate and walk on eggshells with her.
I hope that they come on strong like Navy Seals from the minute opening statements begin. I foresee plenty of panic attacks and theatrics from KC. I wonder if she can request some type of anti-anxiety meds without being able to later claim she wasn't of sound mind? I don't put anything past her or the DT for an appeal.
Actually, good enough for her. Those are the same hands that put duct tape across Caylee's face!!!
I have not one ounce of sympathy for that killer. JMHO, of course.
Whisperer
05-11-2011, 05:16 PM
I am being totally honest when I say this: I was wondering when she may have a seizure like the one she supposedly had at Jessie's one time.
She is now being escorted back into court and seemingly okay.
Of course she is ok. She is a very healthy young woman.
I can tell you from experience, inmates fake seizures all day every day. Everytime they do this, they get to go to sick bay. There is nothing to be done but they like the trip to break up their routine. I have seen thousands of so-called seizures.
dog.gone.cute
05-11-2011, 05:19 PM
:boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:
:dramaqueen:
Maybe ... just maybe, an "ounce" of reality has finally hit ICA !
BeanE
05-11-2011, 05:24 PM
I had to take a nap and I missed Casey's attack of whatever. Attack of guilt perhaps? She had to listen to the indictments read just a couple days ago, and then today, twice more.
This was right after the second reading of the indictments wasn't it?
So she hears what she did read out once again, and suddenly... her hands are bothering her. Her hands that she killed Caylee with.
Very interesting to me.
Just my opinion/speculation.
Debbie3223
05-11-2011, 05:25 PM
prolly some carpel tunnel..mine hit both hands realll bad with pain and numbin up at some odd times.. wimp
Whisperer
05-11-2011, 05:25 PM
:boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:
:dramaqueen:
Maybe ... just maybe, an "ounce" of reality has finally hit ICA !
Don't count on it! LOL
BetteDavisEyes
05-11-2011, 05:25 PM
:boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:
:dramaqueen:
Maybe ... just maybe, an "ounce" of reality has finally hit ICA !
WE can see that reality has hit Casey, but for ICA, it becomes an opportunity to gain attention.
Whisperer
05-11-2011, 05:26 PM
prolly some carpel tunnel..mine hit both hands realll bad with pain and numbin up at some odd times.. wimp
With all the doodeling she has done in the previous months, it's possible. I think she is just stiffening up. Probably her neck is tight and the hands will get numb.
Solace
05-11-2011, 05:28 PM
She is getting nervous. But she is such a sociopath that I can't believe anything she says or does. I don't believe it. It was a ploy.
cyberborg
05-11-2011, 05:28 PM
If you all recall she had a similar attack when they put her in front of the TV the day Caylee was found. Reality is sinking in. She has been sheltered from it for so long. Allowed to live in her cell, all alone in a fantasy world. Casey is feeling it. But I also feel that something is up between Baez and Casey.
I completely agree! JB over-promised and under-delivered, with all of the evidence coming in from the Frye hearings and ... JB doing so badly to try to eliminate Vass' testimony on air sampling ... JB is struggling and ICA is realizing she is toast.
ICA has NEVER had to face her actions, never mind consequences. She has spent her life being given a break by CA scot free and just moving on. No lessons learnt. This is the first time ever that ICA is being held to account and in the biggest most life changing way.
Repeatedly hearing the indictment, hearing the Jurors squirm as they try to deal with the hardship of 6-8 weeks at trial and, hearing some Jurors pre-pronounce a Guilty verdict is spooking ICA. It is making it VERY HARD for her to live in her fairy tale land ... she is facing harsh reality for 8 hours a day.
I personally think ICA is going to crack and seek a plea deal to avoid the trial of a century that she will not survive ... literally!!
gngr~snap
05-11-2011, 05:30 PM
I need my tinfoil hat! I'm feeling sorry for her and doubting her guilt again! I need a 12 step program! yup Imma sucker!
windy91195
05-11-2011, 05:32 PM
Was she in the prescence of the jury when she had this episode?
technicalconfusion
05-11-2011, 05:33 PM
One way to get some Valium to help you thru your day, I guess. But I could have sworn I saw her hands move on that video.
21merc7
05-11-2011, 05:35 PM
Sorry to say this but KC has been trying to hyperventilate every time the charges are read in order to cry or act out. I hope that was not what this 2nd drama of the day was about.
momtective
05-11-2011, 05:35 PM
Right before she left the courtroom
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/The_Missing/Anthony/ICA53.jpg
momtective
05-11-2011, 05:39 PM
Sorry to say this but KC has been trying to hyperventilate every time the charges are read in order to cry or act out. I hope that was not what this 2nd drama of the day was about.
She's been trying to leave since she first got there this morning. She appeared to be angry and upset throughout the day, especially with JB.
21merc7
05-11-2011, 05:39 PM
Maybe she is trying to get this delayed.
Could be, but it won't work. The trial will still go on.
Jo in Calif
05-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Reality is starting to set in.
When the judge reads the charges that are against Casey Marie Anthony, she realizes that all this is about her being put on trial, she is not a paralegal, she is not part of the defense team.
I would think she is finally hearing the words from her mother "Casey what have you done."
debloree
05-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Good capture Momtective! Here's another 1!
Melanie
05-11-2011, 05:40 PM
I need my tinfoil hat! I'm feeling sorry for her and doubting her guilt again! I need a 12 step program! yup Imma sucker!
No tin hat needed Gngr - you're just kind hearted. My first though was she might be stroking out (holding all that stress in for 3 years will do that to ya).
I'm no doctor, but it sure sounds like she could have a B12 deficiency, or carpal tunnel syndrome, or as many said an anxiety attack. My attacks bring tingling in my arms, but I don't lose sense in my hands.
Interesting.
MOO
Mel
Melanie
05-11-2011, 05:46 PM
http://www.ehow.com/info_7794484_treatment-incompetent-stand-trial-california.html
Medication Likely to Restore Competence
Section 1370 further authorizes involuntary administration of antipsychotic medication if the incompetent defendant is charged with a serious crime against person or property; and "antipsychotic medication is substantially likely to render the defendant competent to stand trial; the medication is unlikely to have side effects that interfere with the defendant's ability to understand the nature of the criminal proceedings or to assist counsel in the conduct of a defense in a reasonable manner; less intrusive treatments are unlikely to have substantially the same results; and antipsychotic medication is in the patient's best medical interest in light of his ... medical condition."
.
Softail
05-11-2011, 05:50 PM
Right before she left the courtroom
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/The_Missing/Anthony/ICA53.jpg
LOOK - I broke a nail! :tears: :dramaqueen:
:violin:
I don't buy the sick routine. Not one bit.
Gnatcatcher
05-11-2011, 05:53 PM
And yet, she was able to push down on the arms of the chair to stand up, pull down on her pants legs as she got up, curl her fists together as she walked, and do the trade mark move she makes when walking in front of people - pull her elbow into her waist and lift her arm, that little insecurity thing she does.
Sorry. Don't care. Wish I did, but I don't.
sassy_texasbelle2
05-11-2011, 05:56 PM
Lack of attention from JB?
EllenRoss
05-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Yes I think ICA is probably seeing that her time has come. Jury selection started and imo Casey knows this is the real deal. I think this is one of many panic attacks she will have.
EllenRoss
05-11-2011, 05:58 PM
LOOK - I broke a nail! :tears: :dramaqueen:
:violin:
I don't buy the sick routine. Not one bit.
Then again it could be just that. Casey seeking attention.
21merc7
05-11-2011, 05:59 PM
Her hands. She has been pressing them together as hard as she can all day, and her elbows up on the table pressing in. That could be a hand issue.
Sorry, but panic attacks are not delaying this trial, or any other acting up.
tsitra01
05-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Thinking of Casey Anthony....feeling sorry is the last thing I would consider.
Why does JB have to be accommodated ALL the time. Picking homeless from next door is unfair. That is not random. Why does it have to be special for this trial and why aren't the prosecutors objecting.
tlcya
05-11-2011, 06:09 PM
aw. wish I could feel some sympathy but all I feel is satisfaction knowing that maybe, just MAYBE, ICA has finally had her reality check.
Probably just so much performing for the general public and the potential jurors, but hey, a gal can hope right?
mysteriew
05-11-2011, 06:18 PM
Yeah she may have had a real anxiety attack. But IMO since it worked once and got her out of court, most likely it will happen again most likely during difficult testimony.
Anyone want to bet on whose testimony the next one will happen on?
2goldfish
05-11-2011, 06:20 PM
I need my tinfoil hat! I'm feeling sorry for her and doubting her guilt again! I need a 12 step program! yup Imma sucker!
go listen to her first phone call home from jail, that always sorts me right out.
I think some of us are so empathic we cant help feeling terrible when anyone is hurt or sick. but that doesnt make her a nice person who is innocent. go listen to that call and see how sorry for ICA you feel at the end of it.
uklaw
05-11-2011, 06:33 PM
go listen to her first phone call home from jail, that always sorts me right out.
I think some of us are so empathic we cant help feeling terrible when anyone is hurt or sick. but that doesnt make her a nice person who is innocent. go listen to that call and see how sorry for ICA you feel at the end of it.
Hi, there you got a link to the audio/transcript.
Thanks
Bobbarita
05-11-2011, 06:33 PM
And yet, she was able to push down on the arms of the chair to stand up, pull down on her pants legs as she got up, curl her fists together as she walked, and do the trade mark move she makes when walking in front of people - pull her elbow into her waist and lift her arm, that little insecurity thing she does.
Sorry. Don't care. Wish I did, but I don't.
I agree, I so agree. I worked as a nurse on a psych ward. It was common for the sociopaths to have "seizures", swallow foreign objects, fake medical problems, etc. so they could get off the ward or avoid a court appearance, etc. To a certain extent, they must be "humored", but they must also learn that after their problems are addressed, they will still be obligated to behave appropriately, appear in court, etc.
uklaw
05-11-2011, 06:39 PM
JB is struggling and ICA is realizing she is toast.
Respectfully snipped by me.
The problem with this view, however, is that if ICA is a sociopath, knows she has murdered her daughter, only cares about herself and knows she is going down she will seek a plea deal (unless of course JB is standing in the way of it, which could be interesting on appeal depending upon the outcome of a SCOTUS case: Missouri v. Frye (No. 10-444)).
So if she really thinks she is shortly off to death row then surely she would be seeking to take a plea and save her skin? I imagine the State is still amenable to a plea deal.
IIRC, most theories up until now were that she thought she would win the case or that she wasn't giving it much thought.
MissJames
05-11-2011, 06:49 PM
Respectfully snipped by me.
The problem with this view, however, is that if ICA is a sociopath, knows she has murdered her daughter, only cares about herself and knows she is going down she will seek a plea deal (unless of course JB is standing in the way of it, which could be interesting on appeal depending upon the outcome of a SCOTUS case: Missouri v. Frye (No. 10-444)).
So if she really thinks she is shortly off to death row then surely she would be seeking to take a plea and save her skin? I imagine the State is still amenable to a plea deal.
IIRC, most theories up until now were that she thought she would win the case or that she wasn't giving it much thought.
Which is exactly why she is flipping out now.Every time she actually hears the indictment read she gets upset because she is being forced to face the facts. She can't make up a different scenario in her head while she is actually sitting there listening.As soon they move on to the potential jurors she recovers .She can put what happened out of head again.
She is starting to see she may not win and is getting scared. JMO
crucibelle
05-11-2011, 06:51 PM
WFTV is reporting that Casey was having "pain" in her hands and wrist. Honestly, I'm not surprised. She may pretend to be innocent, but her body is showing otherwise. Her hands were the murder weapon. It's psychological, IMO.. guilt coming out in the form of pain, and pain in none other than the hands used to kill Caylee. Like Dr. Glass says, "the body doesn't lie". JMO.
logicalgirl
05-11-2011, 06:52 PM
Jean C. was just on PrimeNews, HLN, describing the incident. She said Casey's hands 'would not move.' And the guards were surrounding her, trying to help and they escorted her out of the room.
I know that anxiety attacks make your hands go numb and they feel paralyzed.
SHE IS BACK IN THE COURT!
But I was sure I saw her flexing them along with Dorothy Simms.:waitasec:
Maybe they were just going numb.
logicalgirl
05-11-2011, 06:54 PM
Lack of attention from JB?
JB was NOT impressed - at all.
Intermezzo
05-11-2011, 06:57 PM
I am watching the clip..the guards are surrounding her but I did notice she was opening and closing her hands at least 2 times..
IMO it's anxiety..and she has a tingling feeling running up and down her arm probably
Something seems to be up with her hands, lower arm..she still used her hands to get up from the chair.
Plenty of people around the courtroom to take care of her...
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 06:57 PM
The condition in her hands is called Tetany. It is caused by hyperventilating. Someone should have given her a paper bag to breathe in for a couple of minutes- end of drama.
It's common in people who are anxious, stressed. The hands tingle and "won't work'. It's upsetting but not serious
Kentjbkent
05-11-2011, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=logicalgirl;6467168]But I was sure I saw her flexing them along with Dorothy Simms.:waitasec:
Maybe they were just going numb.[/QUOTE
I saw this same thing, LogicalGirl, and posted a question about it in the sidebar thread....it happened right after HHJP recessed the court to "get reorganized" while they brought in this newest group of 40 jurors....camera was on KC and Sims when I saw them conversing and gesturing, then camera shot back to court seal.
I have been suspecting (and posting about) KC possibly being under some sort of sedative drugs since watching Mondays proceedings.
Noticed a definite change in demeanor, ticks, etc....from morning session to afternoon session...
Maybe after yesterday's peeing contest (re: "..acting like a 2 yr old") with Baez was caught on film, her dosage was upped today.....and it was TOO much??!!
JMO
dog.gone.cute
05-11-2011, 07:06 PM
Don't count on it! LOL
WE can see that reality has hit Casey, but for ICA, it becomes an opportunity to gain attention.
LOL ... no, I won't count on "reality" hitting ICA and I do believe she is ALWAYS seeking attention ...
:cow::cow::cow:
However, ICA has NEVER been held "responsible" for her actions. So when HHJP reads all those charges in the courtroom:
ICA canNOT "answer" him back.
ICA canNOT "argue" back with him like she could argue back with her parents.
ICA has NO CONTROL over the situation and ICA canNOT tell her attorneys to STOP JP from reciting the charges.
ICA is STUCK there listening to this and I think just a teeny amount of reality "might" finally be starting to set in.
I don't care how strong you are or how narcissistic you are ... when you are facing the "Death Penalty" it has got to affect you in some way, shape or form hearing all those charges.
I am NOT defending ICA and I believe she "INTENTIONALLY" killed Caylee !
ICA can put up a "front" for only so long ... the past 3 years of "lies and denial" WILL eventually catch up with her ... just waiting to see how she really will handle that pressure.
MOO MOO MOO
Jolynna
05-11-2011, 07:07 PM
ICA didn't have a panic attack the day Caylee died. Her hands weren't bothering her her when she taped over Caylee's face and then tossed Caylee into her Pontiac trunk.
No panic attack prevented ICA from driving to Tony's or strolling with Tony through Blockbusters. I bet ICA's hands worked just fine when ICA was intimate with Tony within hours of Caylee's death.
She is a coward and is upset and scared because she can't run.
imo
I don't understand all of this because I'm learning about pathology of personalities by reading books that were given to me as suggested reading (long story won't derail this thread with explanation-but I'm not the one with a disorder)
And sociopathy is on a spectrum too and there are primary and secondary diagnosis.
Secondary sociopaths can and do feel anxiety in particular situations.
Perhaps we can get someone to explain that and if it's possible that this is what is going on with KC today given the assumption that is her diagnosis.
Primary: KC is creating attention for herself thereby gaining a bit of control.
Secondary: She has anxiety because she is not in control and can't figure out how to take control. (have a look at her face after JP ate the juror up who approached a IS producer earlier today, she looked like she was stumped as to how tough he was, kind of like in her recent mug shot--almost scared).
all jmho
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 07:16 PM
ICA didn't have a panic attack the day Caylee died. Her hands weren't bothering her her when she taped over Caylee's face and then tossed Caylee into her Pontiac trunk.
No panic attack prevented ICA from driving to Tony's or strolling with Tony through Blockbusters. I bet ICA's hands worked just fine when ICA was intimate with Tony within hours of Caylee's death.
She is a coward and is upset and scared because she can't run.
imo
She did hyperventilate when told of Caylee's remains being found though!
That is what she did today. JB needs to shove a paper bag over her head. That would make for improvement all round....:innocent:
charok
05-11-2011, 07:27 PM
She did hyperventilate when told of Caylee's remains being found though!
That is what she did today. JB needs to shove a paper bag over her head. That would make for improvement all round....:innocent:
yep she sure did hyperventilate that dec day...surely did.
but im sure she didnt when she did the deed or partied it up afterwards..not to mention when she used amys $$ for bras& beers!
Origrammi
05-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Clearly she was able to move both hands; each in turn to demonstrate to those around her what was going on with them and she was able also to fondle her bangs at the same time.
I just mentioned this to my daughter. Daughter says, "Yikes, I know exactly that feeling I've gotten it in my hands and feet when I was pulled over once and my tags were expired." She said, it's the "Holy ****, I'm REALLY going to get in trouble syndrome".
I've had panic attacks a few times in my life but I don't recall having that happen. Mine are always the feeling if I don't think about making my heart beat it will stop, and I felt like I had to think about taking breaths. I wasn't in trouble though.
I think the KC just wants to make it all go away. Probing into her nearly empty kit bag of tricks.
Horace Finklestein
05-11-2011, 07:32 PM
A someone said - it's only jury selection...Maybe she reached the end of the hall today lol.
Misfitdolly
05-11-2011, 07:34 PM
I think she may have Raynaud's. My son has it and that was what it looked like to me. In the pic Momtective posted above her hands looked red and in another screenshot as she was walking out I saw they looked very white and that is what happens to my son. They get either red or purple or sometimes blue and are very cold to the touch and painful. when they warm up they turn white. The doc recommended rubbing them together to warm them up when it happens and we all know KC is forever rubbing her hands together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reynaud%27s
"Raynaud's phenomenon is an exaggeration of vasomotor responses to cold or emotional stress. More specifically, it is a hyperactivation of the sympathetic system causing extreme vasoconstriction of the peripheral blood vessels, leading to tissue hypoxia."
Melanie
05-11-2011, 07:36 PM
Heck if I was on trial facing the Death Penalty, I would have an anxienty attack too! If she told the truth, she wouldn't be in this position. So no sympathy here!
OMG if I were there - and did or didn't do it - you would have to pull me off the wall. Because, IMHO, no sane person can pull this off. Just like the <unusual person> who killed her 2 children while her husband was overseas. Did U see her shaking when she left the house?
IMHO ICA is gonna crash - big time. If she did this (and I'm convinced she did), she will lose it during the trial. She will either have to be heavily medicated or be set up in a straight suit.
MOO
Mel
ExpectingUnicorns
05-11-2011, 07:37 PM
I have no sympathy. The "attack," or episode, whether phony or real, is self inflicted ~ just like a sunburn. Her own actions have brought her to this point.
Jolynna
05-11-2011, 07:37 PM
She did hyperventilate when told of Caylee's remains being found though!
That is what she did today. JB needs to shove a paper bag over her head. That would make for improvement all round....:innocent:
ICA hyperventilated when Caylee's remains were found because she was busted. Everybody was going to know about the duct tape over Caylee's face.
Sociopaths can and do feel anxiety. Over themselves. I've read that Ted Bundy practically had to be carried to his execution because of his anxiety attack.
Baznme
05-11-2011, 07:38 PM
I say "so what" if her hands are bothering her. Big deal. Everything else is still working OK, continue with the business at hand. They have to stop the proceedings because her hands are hurting her? She's got a lot more to worry about than that ahead of her.
I want to see her sit through 8 hours a day of interviews for her jury prospectives and see how it will be affecting so many lives all due to her lies and her actions. She cries when someone speaks about "her" but does not when they speak about her "daughter". Sorry, fellow WS'ers but I don't feel a da*n bit sorry for her.
Mama-cita
05-11-2011, 07:39 PM
Well, well, looks like all the frantic writing during the Frye hearings may have given the ol' gal a touch of the carpal tunnel syndrome?
Or, I am more inclined to believe, it was totally bogus. She is histrionic and looking for secondary gains. She wants attention folks. Some of those looks she gave JB today are looks I fully expect to give Tone L when he is on the stand...JB has had enough of her antics and she is desperately trying to get his attention...:twocents:, MOO, IMO, and all that jazz...
tfrohning
05-11-2011, 07:44 PM
well I just watch the video and she moved her one hand to push back her hair and she use her hands to push her self up out the chair. if her hands were numb she would slip back into the chair. I know this from my own issues with my hands and wrists. I will say she look a mess.
Justice coming Caylee!
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 07:46 PM
well I just watch the video and she moved her to push back her hair and she use her hands to push her self up out the chair. if her hands was numb she would slip back into the chairs. I know this from my own issues
Not from tetany, they feel tingly and can go into spasm but do not lose strength.
GiantPickle
05-11-2011, 07:47 PM
i have epilepsy and when my seizures don't quite go over to the other side (grand mal) I get majorly stiff hands that hurt right in the center but the pain radiates up my arm on the underside...I can still move my hands during this but they just plain old hurt. Its usually gone in a few mins.
Aside from that, I can't help but think if she's got all this action going on during the jury selection phase, what the hell is going to happen when they have the HUGE projections of the baby's remains up on a screen during testimony etc. Is she just going to flat out drop dead? That'd be convenient but seriously - she's got a lot worse to face...forget the testimony, opening statements might kill her.
I do honestly believe that she is feeling something here - she looks like complete shat. I'm sure it is guilt and I'm sure its really the first time she is facing what she has done. Perhaps there are nightmares finally.
believe09
05-11-2011, 07:53 PM
Maybe a plea will come out of this. She also has to sit and listen to people saying they think she is guilty. No buffer there-stating it right in front of her.
Baznme
05-11-2011, 07:53 PM
I noticed her demeanor today as being subdued, hanging head, staring at the table, then the crying with the incessant wiping of the nose and checking the tissue for wetness. JB was not turning his head to check on her nor did he seem affected today by her emotions. Possible he is upset she did not take the plea? Did he present to her that the best he feels he can do for her at this point is to take the plea? ???? I wonder, but she seemed to not be playing the "role" today.
tfrohning
05-11-2011, 07:55 PM
[QUOTE=logicalgirl;6467168]But I was sure I saw her flexing them along with Dorothy Simms.:waitasec:
Maybe they were just going numb.[/QUOTE
I saw this same thing, LogicalGirl, and posted a question about it in the sidebar thread....it happened right after HHJP recessed the court to "get reorganized" while they brought in this newest group of 40 jurors....camera was on KC and Sims when I saw them conversing and gesturing, then camera shot back to court seal.
I have been suspecting (and posting about) KC possibly being under some sort of sedative drugs since watching Mondays proceedings.
Noticed a definite change in demeanor, ticks, etc....from morning session to afternoon session...
Maybe after yesterday's peeing contest (re: "..acting like a 2 yr old") with Baez was caught on film, her dosage was upped today.....and it was TOO much??!!
JMO
I was thinking that too about being on something...but than I was like Noooo:waitasec:
alwaysonmymind
05-11-2011, 07:55 PM
My opinion- more attention-seeking behavior from the tot mom :twocents:
CuriousTwo
05-11-2011, 07:59 PM
I think that if she truly had any type of medical condition, she and CA would have played that card to the fullest and we would have long since heard about it. Anything that would have garnered attention or sympathy from others would have been used constantly by them.
Am convinced that when CA/GA were in the courtroom in the past, ICA was focused on and totally consumed with deliberately ignoring them. Doing that distracted her from her surroundings and the reality of why she was there. Now that CA/GA aren't there, that distraction is gone and all that's left is the reality of trial.
JMHO.
per_curiam
05-11-2011, 08:03 PM
You know how you've seen plenty of mentally disturbed people and their behaviors? Too bad Casey doesn't see herself as we do. The flirty batting of eyelashes, with head tilted down, the incessant piddling with her collars, buttons, hair, eyes, eyelashes (and always looking at it as if she might have an eye boogie or something).
There are med. terminology words for these, but I just cannot think of them right now. Any shrink would pick up on it right away. She does not have a confident, mature demeanor. She acts more like she is trying to look demure and sexy at the same time. I can't put a word on it, but it is annoying.
Has no one put her into psychiatric evaluation yet? (Serious eval.?)
Also, there must be SOME piece of clothing that would not focus and showcase her bosom. There's a right way to put yourself out there, and she is missing it completely. The hair is scraggly and seems to be a prop for her (for something else to do with her hands).
I thought her lawyers would have tutored her on these things way long ago.
I also think that actually seeing and hearing the jurors is doing something to her. The ones who sound like great choices, she knows she is not going to fool them. She is so used to fooling her mom, dad, friends, etc., and now she has to deal with reality. Time for some medical/mental antics, such as paralyzed hands, who knows what comes next.
She's realizing that it's all coming down: the witnesses, she will be seeing them face to face. The reality. People are beyond the point of giving her any benefit of a doubt now. She's sitting out there at the desk and there's not much of anyone else to focus on, which normally Casey would love, but now she is going into panic mode, I think. I think she won't be able to deal with it and would love to be in a psychiatric hospital as an "escape".
MOO
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:06 PM
I noticed her demeanor today as being subdued, hanging head, staring at the table, then the crying with the incessant wiping of the nose and checking the tissue for wetness. JB was not turning his head to check on her nor did he seem affected today by her emotions. Possible he is upset she did not take the plea? Did he present to her that the best he feels he can do for her at this point is to take the plea? ???? I wonder, but she seemed to not be playing the "role" today.
I agree. There was a body language specialist watching, for IS, this morning.She said ICA lowered her head, licked her lips, shook her head and mouthed NO. The body language said that was anger she was expressing,not sadness,grief or being upset that she was wrongly accused, more just angry with the Court!
Interesting!
Cherry Ames
05-11-2011, 08:06 PM
I will say she look a mess.
Justice coming Caylee!
More and more she's beginning to resemble Mackenzie Phillips from "One Day at a Time" fame. And that's NOT a compliment, Cindy!
countzero
05-11-2011, 08:06 PM
She is in deep manipulation mode. Trying out different scenarios in her head to see what will and won't work with HHJP. She has seen the softer side of him during the motions hearings. Today she witnessed him get irritated and slap a contempt fine on the juror. That alone gave her pause to rethink her in her ten minute time frame.
If you study her long enough you will be able to follow her too. She has no fingernails as she chews on them, probably raw cuticles too. The rubbing of the hands is a form of distraction for her while brain is contriving excuses or what her next sentence will be to her new BFF. She's working it because she knows and has accepted what is now going to happen. She will still try to avoid it.
What will really become interesting is observing how JB reacts to it. Will he become so annoyed with her and her antics. Already he has displayed for all of utube land to play and replay his childish remark directed to her. Should be interesting. Anne has her plate full, and she is doing this for free.
Rallihanna
05-11-2011, 08:07 PM
I think the plea deal is a bit late for them to be considering... Why wait all this time?
Panda's eye
05-11-2011, 08:10 PM
As ICA was forced to listen twice today about what her hands did to Caylee she could have had a Psychological reason for her hands hurting....or perhaps she is on some Psyche meds that cause poor circulation in her hands and feet. Different kinds can cause very cold hands that actually cause cramping of the hands that is painful when you try to move your hands. Anyone that has ever had " a charlie horse " knows what this feels like.........JMO
AlwaysShocked
05-11-2011, 08:12 PM
She is currently residing IN the medical facility of the Pinellas County Jail. So we can assume she well get a medical consult if she needs one.
Get her medically examined, get a psych consult if needed for anxiety, give her a pill, and get on with it.
I see NO WAY this Judge is going to put up with any courtroom shenanigans!
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:13 PM
She did exactly the same thing when told that Caylee's remains had been found- she hyperventilated in the Nurse's office, her hands got warm and painful- it's a side effect of hyperventilation. The treatment is to breathe SLOWLY in and out of a paper bag until the symptoms are relieved.
Adrienne37
05-11-2011, 08:14 PM
If anyone is experiencing any sort of sympathy over Casey's behavior today and complaining that her hands were numb, all you need to think about is those hands pulling off pieces of duct tape and putting them over that precious little baby's face.
I have zero sympathy or compassion for her whatsoever. She's a cold-blooded baby killer, the absolute lowest of low.
~jmo~
strawberry
05-11-2011, 08:15 PM
NG just said the same thing I had said..this episode reminds me of when Caylee was found where she kept saying the handcuffs were getting tighter and they really weren't. I think she's having extreme anxiety after having to face reality for the first time in 3 years. Well, maybe longer.
technicalconfusion
05-11-2011, 08:16 PM
What will really become interesting is observing how JB reacts to it. Will he become so annoyed with her and her antics. Already he has displayed for all of utube land to play and replay his childish remark directed to her. Should be interesting. Anne has her plate full, and she is doing this for free.
What remark? I missed it. Where can I find it - anyone know?
SeaNymph
05-11-2011, 08:16 PM
I think it was all equal to a little hissy-fit to get some attention from Baez, get him to visit her tonight, goshdarnit!!
Hope they send AF to see her.
i hope she was feeling all the anxiety that darling baby girl felt,
when kc killed her.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:17 PM
As ICA was forced to listen twice today about what her hands did to Caylee she could have had a Psychological reason for her hands hurting....or perhaps she is on some Psyche meds that cause poor circulation in her hands and feet. Different kinds can cause very cold hands that actually cause cramping of the hands that is painful when you try to move your hands. Anyone that has ever had " a charlie horse " knows what this feels like.........JMO
Except that the last time she did this was for a similar reason. She felt great anxiety and fear when Caylee's remains were found, and hyperventilated then got the hand symptoms .She did the same thing this morning and had the same symptoms, tetany in her hands.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:18 PM
What remark? I missed it. Where can I find it - anyone know?
WFTV has articles about it. During yesterday's hearing he apparently told her she was behaving like a 2 year old. They didn't make eye contact after that, she sat next to AF
strawberry
05-11-2011, 08:20 PM
What remark? I missed it. Where can I find it - anyone know?
He told her she was acting like a two year old. If you go to yesterday's Jury Selection thread or Sidebar thread some people posted the video and the minute mark.
technicalconfusion
05-11-2011, 08:20 PM
WFTV has articles about it. During yesterday's hearing he apparently told her she was behaving like a 2 year old. They didn't make eye contact after that, she sat next to AF
THank you!
strawberry
05-11-2011, 08:22 PM
If anyone is experiencing any sort of sympathy over Casey's behavior today and complaining that her hands were numb, all you need to think about is those hands pulling off pieces of duct tape and putting them over that precious little baby's face.
I have zero sympathy or compassion for her whatsoever. She's a cold-blooded baby killer, the absolute lowest of low.
~jmo~
I think that's why her hands bother her. Because she knows she used them to do the worst deed imaginable. I think Caylee is reminding her, just like she showed herself by the lights going out the first day.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:23 PM
My opinion- more attention-seeking behavior from the tot mom :twocents:
She has been doing that the entire time this Jury selection has been on. Where is the ICA that was giggling, flipping the bird, chatting, during all those hearings? Oh, yes, she is in front of a bigger audience now, so suddenly she is very "anxious" playing with her hair and compulsively messing with stuff on the desk. It is a game, she is trying to convey some Psych disorder.
Teresa
05-11-2011, 08:24 PM
I'm not sure if Casey planned the issue today or not but as a parent my children, when small, were apt to have a "sickness/hurt" or such when in trouble. Most likely in a sense they did, they were caught in whatever they had done and shouldn't have. Tummyaches, headaches, hurt spots and such "popped" up. I can see Casey having a moment like this, she's caught and knows it.
Teresa
Lexington
05-11-2011, 08:24 PM
KC seems to have difficulties when she has to face the prospective jurors and listen to her indictment being read. When I see her with her head hung low, eyes downcast, with the tissue to her face, it screams out to me that she is guilty and ashamed. Her attorneys need to address this if they wish to have any chance of a positive outcome. I think the business with her hands is all psychological. It makes me think that she strangled Caylee.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:26 PM
You know how you've seen plenty of mentally disturbed people and their behaviors? Too bad Casey doesn't see herself as we do. The flirty batting of eyelashes, with head tilted down, the incessant piddling with her collars, buttons, hair, eyes, eyelashes (and always looking at it as if she might have an eye boogie or something).
There are med. terminology words for these, but I just cannot think of them right now. Any shrink would pick up on it right away. She does not have a confident, mature demeanor. She acts more like she is trying to look demure and sexy at the same time. I can't put a word on it, but it is annoying.
Has no one put her into psychiatric evaluation yet? (Serious eval.?)
Also, there must be SOME piece of clothing that would not focus and showcase her bosom. There's a right way to put yourself out there, and she is missing it completely. The hair is scraggly and seems to be a prop for her (for something else to do with her hands).
I thought her lawyers would have tutored her on these things way long ago.
I also think that actually seeing and hearing the jurors is doing something to her. The ones who sound like great choices, she knows she is not going to fool them. She is so used to fooling her mom, dad, friends, etc., and now she has to deal with reality. Time for some medical/mental antics, such as paralyzed hands, who knows what comes next.
She's realizing that it's all coming down: the witnesses, she will be seeing them face to face. The reality. People are beyond the point of giving her any benefit of a doubt now. She's sitting out there at the desk and there's not much of anyone else to focus on, which normally Casey would love, but now she is going into panic mode, I think. I think she won't be able to deal with it and would love to be in a psychiatric hospital as an "escape".
MOO
They would LIKE you to think she has a mental disorder. We will see lots more of this behavior. Hopefully they will make her watch the court on remote video, like they did to John Mitchell at his trial (Elizabeth Smart) when he got disruptive
LambChop
05-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Not sure this was already mentioned but I think KC's hand problem comes from her squeezing her hands so tightly and at one point while the judge was reading it looked as if the fingers on her one hand were bluish color cutting off the circulation.
Anyone remember JA's description of how Caylee may have died and AL holding onto KC's arm. KC had become so angry AL had to hold onto her. I think KC is controlling her anger the best she can and the end result is a major stress on her body. jmo
faefrost
05-11-2011, 08:29 PM
KC was just removed from Court (albeit walking) and they are waiting on her. She was helped from the courtroom and it was something with her hands.
That problem with the hands or "can't feel your hands" is a clear symptom of hyperventilating. They don't always look like they are gasping for air or wheezing. They just breath much faster than normal. In most cases it comes from extreme stress. When it reaches a certain point their hands will go numb and start to sort of involuntarily contract or clench. Once you know what it looks like it is easy to spot from across a room. The typical remedy is a paper bag.
Gee I wonder what could be stressing KC? :gavel:
whatsupwiththat
05-11-2011, 08:30 PM
I just cant feel sorry for her, not after everything we know about what happened to Caylee
Oakley
05-11-2011, 08:30 PM
Casey appeared to be having a panic attack, similar to what she was said to have experienced when she first heard the news of the remains being found. I don't believe she is faking. Snipped from the article link:
Symptoms of a panic attack, which often last about 10 minutes, include:
Difficulty breathing.
Pounding heart or chest pain.
Intense feeling of terror.
Sensation of choking or smothering.
Dizziness or feeling faint.
Trembling or shaking.
Sweating
Nausea or stomachache.
Tingling or numbness in the fingers and toes.
Chills or hot flashes.
A fear that you are losing control or are about to die.
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/mental-health-panic-disorder
Yes, Casey is an attention monger but anxiety attacks are very real and involuntary.
crucibelle
05-11-2011, 08:31 PM
I have to disagree that ICA is feeling anxiety. IMO, she is a psychopath, and one of the hallmarks of a psychopath is low anxiety level. I think what she is feeling is pure unadulterated anger. As always, JMO.
uklaw
05-11-2011, 08:33 PM
Which is exactly why she is flipping out now.Every time she actually hears the indictment read she gets upset because she is being forced to face the facts. She can't make up a different scenario in her head while she is actually sitting there listening.As soon they move on to the potential jurors she recovers .She can put what happened out of head again.
She is starting to see she may not win and is getting scared. JMO
Thanks for explaining that.
So you think whilst she is sitting there she wants to come up with a way out of this situation (and may be contemplating a plea?) but after the reading is over she is happy to forget it all because she no longer has to face the facts?
redcar1
05-11-2011, 08:34 PM
Last night - they had a 'body language specialist' on and she stated that the reason she 'fiddles' with the kleenexes as coasters and moves the bottle/cups on the table is because it is her way of controlling the items in front of her. This episode today, (although I didn't see it) sounds just like another way for HER to 'control' something, namely the court room! I certainly hope HHJP puts a nix on any more of her control moves! Early this morning, it was sooooo apparent she was distraught that JB wasn't pauying ANY attentin to her - so just like my 5 year old, to her 'bad' attention is just as good as 'good' attention! And let's face it - ICA has been doing that with her parents all of her life!
IMO, something happened between ICA and JB. Whether he finally got sick of her or maybe he has realized she's going down and he doesn't want to go along with her...
the tnsion at the defense table was very apparent - I'm wondering if something big may be in the works as the beginning looms near????
We could only hope for a 'guilt' plea deal, for beautiful Caylee's sake!
JMO
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 08:37 PM
Her hands hurt so everyone thinks it's an anxiety attack?
She was doing the same clenching an unclenching of her hands when they removed her cuffs in the new jail intake video.
katydid23
05-11-2011, 08:38 PM
I'm not sure if Casey planned the issue today or not but as a parent my children, when small, were apt to have a "sickness/hurt" or such when in trouble. Most likely in a sense they did, they were caught in whatever they had done and shouldn't have. Tummyaches, headaches, hurt spots and such "popped" up. I can see Casey having a moment like this, she's caught and knows it.
Teresa
Oh yes, my son used to get 'headaches' when his report card arrived. LOL
I do think Casey regresses when she gets emotional. Remember when Amy said that Casey turned into a 12 yr old child when Cindy tracked her down at Tony's that night? And we just heard Baez call her a 2 yr old.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:40 PM
I have to disagree that ICA is feeling anxiety. IMO, she is a psychopath, and one of the hallmarks of a psychopath is low anxiety level. I think what she is feeling is pure unadulterated anger. As always, JMO.
Yes, very angry but she can't show that, she has to suppress it, so it's far more acceptable to come up with this panicky, mentally fragile girl who is now overwhelmed with the injustice of this whole thing.
oh_gal
05-11-2011, 08:45 PM
Her hands hurt so everyone thinks it's an anxiety attack?
She was doing the same clenching an unclenching of her hands when they removed her cuffs in the new jail intake video.
Strangely reminiscent of Lady MacBeth...."Out, dirty stain! Out!" (when she was constantly "washing" her hands -- without benefit of water!)
oh_gal
05-11-2011, 08:45 PM
Her constant "fingering" of her bangs is enough to drive me insane, much less her!
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Her hands hurt so everyone thinks it's an anxiety attack?
She was doing the same clenching an unclenching of her hands when they removed her cuffs in the new jail intake video.
If you look at her hands as she walked out they are in spasm. It is tetany, spasms caused by hyperventilation.
Lots of psychological problems manifest themselves in physical symptoms.
She was feeling anxious, and started hyperventilating. She was taken out,
I think she was seen by a Nurse and probably given a paper bag to breathe in, and came back in after ten minutes or so. It's very common.
She does it to herself.....
faefrost
05-11-2011, 08:46 PM
I have to disagree that ICA is feeling anxiety. IMO, she is a psychopath, and one of the hallmarks of a psychopath is low anxiety level. I think what she is feeling is pure unadulterated anger. As always, JMO.
She is not actually a psychopath. What she is is more of a sociopath. She can feel emotion, just only as it relates to her. She is a complete narcissist focused entirely on self. She is panicking because she is in trouble and people will be doing and saying mean stuff to her. She is panicking because she herself is going to be held accountable for her crimes. This is not the same as remorse and only lightly touches on guilt in the sense of "OMG how am I going to get out of this". She would not panic or stress because Caylee was gone or missing or dead. She will panic based on how that might effect her. The critical operative element in any of her stress or emotional responses is "I, me, my, myself, KC" nothing else.
The sociopath will care about other people to the extent of how and only how it relates to themselves. They are entirely self fixated. The Psychopath doesn't really distinguish any difference between people and things. It's a subtle but critical difference.
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Casey appeared to be having a panic attack, similar to what she was said to have experienced when she first heard the news of the remains being found. I don't believe she is faking. Snipped from the article link:
Symptoms of a panic attack, which often last about 10 minutes, include:
Difficulty breathing.
Pounding heart or chest pain.
Intense feeling of terror.
Sensation of choking or smothering.
Dizziness or feeling faint.
Trembling or shaking.
Sweating
Nausea or stomachache.
Tingling or numbness in the fingers and toes.
Chills or hot flashes.
A fear that you are losing control or are about to die.
http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/mental-health-panic-disorder
Yes, Casey is an attention monger but anxiety attacks are very real and involuntary.
The only thing I saw was her fiddling with her hands.. did I miss something?
Luzer
05-11-2011, 08:46 PM
I have an alternate theory. Remember your American Lit classes? Edgar Allen Poe wrote "The Tell-Tale Heart". KC has "The Tell-Tale Hands".
Oakley
05-11-2011, 08:47 PM
Just a thought: While hyperventilating is a involuntary result of high stress or anxiety, it CAN be self-induced by rapid breathing. So she might have been coached by the DT. Or decided herself to do it. JMO.
katydid23
05-11-2011, 08:47 PM
Last night - they had a 'body language specialist' on and she stated that the reason she 'fiddles' with the kleenexes as coasters and moves the bottle/cups on the table is because it is her way of controlling the items in front of her. This episode today, (although I didn't see it) sounds just like another way for HER to 'control' something, namely the court room! I certainly hope HHJP puts a nix on any more of her control moves! Early this morning, it was sooooo apparent she was distraught that JB wasn't pauying ANY attentin to her - so just like my 5 year old, to her 'bad' attention is just as good as 'good' attention! And let's face it - ICA has been doing that with her parents all of her life!
IMO, something happened between ICA and JB. Whether he finally got sick of her or maybe he has realized she's going down and he doesn't want to go along with her...
the tnsion at the defense table was very apparent - I'm wondering if something big may be in the works as the beginning looms near????
We could only hope for a 'guilt' plea deal, for beautiful Caylee's sake!
JMO
I AGREE. She craves ALL of the attention and she wants to be in control.
We can all see she has lost 'control' of Baez. She used to have a bit of a spell over him, but that spell has been broken. It is odd that he is so distant now, considering he is supposed to be the person fighting for her life. Weird dynamics for sure right now.
I think she really did have a bit of a panic attack though. I think hearing Judge P's authoritative voice booming out those charges a few times a day has been brutal for her. But the drama queen inside her demanded attention so she had to stop the proceedings while she was 'helped' out of her chair.
realcurious
05-11-2011, 08:50 PM
This is what happens when the chit hits the fan. For the first time in her life she realizes that people know she is nothing but a liar. Her family and friends always brushed it off. Now she knows that everyone in the courtroom can see right thru her.
katydid23
05-11-2011, 08:51 PM
The only thing I saw was her fiddling with her hands.. did I miss something?
They had to stop the proceedings because she had a panic attack of some kind. She was helped out of her chair and back into the holding room. Apparently she tought she was going to faint and her 'hands would not move.' You know how your hands get tingly and numb if you get upset? I know mine do.
rosepetal1065
05-11-2011, 08:51 PM
Of course she is ok. She is a very healthy young woman.
I can tell you from experience, inmates fake seizures all day every day. Everytime they do this, they get to go to sick bay. There is nothing to be done but they like the trip to break up their routine. I have seen thousands of so-called seizures.
Ita, with this. To really shake things up..Kc could claim her chest "hurts" cp will get you a ride to the hospital and 24 hr obs mandatory. We get several of these a month.
Oakley
05-11-2011, 08:51 PM
The only thing I saw was her fiddling with her hands.. did I miss something?
Someone at her table was overheard to say that Casey reported feeling dizzy. She also appeared to be taking deep breaths, and was also reported to be pale or ashen. She looked very frightened about the (seeming) inability to move her hands (from the tingling, I presume.) Another symptom of panic attacks is a feeling of dread, and she did seem kind of out there.
As ZZ said, while panic attacks can feel very scary to the person experiencing them, they are not dangerous or life threatening at all. They just feel that way. Worst that could happen is one passes out from lack of carbon dioxide (thanks, FF. Got that backward.) Breathing in a brown paper bag solves that. As long as she is on meds for trial, she should be fine.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:52 PM
This is what happens when the chit hits the fan. For the first time in her life she realizes that people know she is nothing but a liar. Her family and friends always brushed it off. Now she knows that everyone in the courtroom can see right thru her.
You summed it up very nicely! :great:
faefrost
05-11-2011, 08:53 PM
If you look at her hands as she walked out they are in spasm. It is tetany, spasms caused by hyperventilation.
Lots of psychological problems manifest themselves in physical symptoms.
She was feeling anxious, and started hyperventilating. She was taken out,
I think she was seen by a Nurse and probably given a paper bag to breathe in, and came back in after ten minutes or so. It's very common.
She does it to herself.....
Exactly.
The spasming hands aren't psychological. They are a physiological effect caused by too much oxygen and not enough CO2 in the blood. In other words caused by hyperventilating. The hyperventilating is typically caused by stress. The hands are an actual physical problem. She really can't feel her hands and they really are spasming.
Work EMS near a University during finals week. You'll see enough of this to be able to spot and diagnose it in your sleep.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Ita, with this. To really shake things up..Kc could claim her chest "hurts" cp will get you a ride to the hospital and 24 hr obs mandatory. We get several of these a month.
I am sure all of her behaviors will get worse as this trial progresses.
It's all about her.
per_curiam
05-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Someone said that a "juror was slapped w/contempt" today? I missed that. Any details, please!
And, if JB lashed out at Casey and compared her to a two year old, you can bet that Casey was embarrassed and humiliated. She is used to having JB as her "rock", thinking he will be covering her @$$ at all times. Well, he's obviously had enough. That does not go with her normal expectation of him. She's out of her comfort zone with him now.
I suspect that as Casey was growing up, her parents dealt with her meltdowns the wrong way, and Casey became a great manipulator. I can see her as a 4 yr. old getting the attention away from anything she would be punished for, by having a stomachache, acting like she was hurt or sick, then the parents would refocus on that instead of whatever she had done that was wrong.
I wish I were a psychiatrist and she were my patient. I'd love to have her childhood before my eyes! And her parents (family dynamics).
Now that the Nancy Cooper trial is over, I'm back over here to Casey, and then on to the Jason Young trial which is upcoming. I live only a few blocks from NC's ex-home, and maybe 3 miles from JY's/Michelle's ex-home/murder site. Makes it especially interesting.
Brattigirle
05-11-2011, 08:54 PM
And yet, she was able to push down on the arms of the chair to stand up, pull down on her pants legs as she got up, curl her fists together as she walked, and do the trade mark move she makes when walking in front of people - pull her elbow into her waist and lift her arm, that little insecurity thing she does.
Sorry. Don't care. Wish I did, but I don't.
I love your post. ITA
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 09:01 PM
Exactly.
The spasming hands aren't psychological. They are a physiological effect caused by too much oxygen and not enough CO2 in the blood. In other words caused by hyperventilating. The hyperventilating is typically caused by stress. The hands are an actual physical problem. She really can't feel her hands and they really are spasming.
Work EMS near a University during finals week. You'll see enough of this to be able to spot and diagnose it in your sleep.
That is what I said. She is anxious, she hyperventilates,her hands go into Tetany from reduced Carbon dioxide. She has a physical symptom which originated from her stress - ie psychologically induced.
Her hands were in spasm as she walked out of court.
I have many years of ER experience, it is a common event.
Treatment= paper bag.
tsitra01
05-11-2011, 09:01 PM
Not sure this was already mentioned but I think KC's hand problem comes from her squeezing her hands so tightly and at one point while the judge was reading it looked as if the fingers on her one hand were bluish color cutting off the circulation.
Anyone remember JA's description of how Caylee may have died and AL holding onto KC's arm. KC had become so angry AL had to hold onto her. I think KC is controlling her anger the best she can and the end result is a major stress on her body. jmo
I agree, I don't see any unusual illness. Only someone who is realizing, this is it. Get ready girl. You are going to face what you did to Caylee and you can't talk back for the first time in your life. This is only the beginning. You didn't choose to confess what you did so the prosecution will do it for you.
babycat
05-11-2011, 09:02 PM
I agree with those of you who have stated that you think it is a symptom of hyperventilating- by fiancées lung has collapsed twice in his life and each time he had this happen- I've also seen it happen to him when his mother passed away, which was sudden, and caused great stress/panic. It also happened to a friend of mine recently who had a panic attack...hands seized right up. It is scary, but goes away...
I think she feels panic for herself, and her immediate situation. I don't feel sorry for her, though...I feel sorry for Caylee:(
It is clear as day she has never had to answer for her wrong doings. Time is up young lady, the party is so over.
Bobbarita
05-11-2011, 09:03 PM
She is not actually a psychopath. What she is is more of a sociopath. She can feel emotion, just only as it relates to her. She is a complete narcissist focused entirely on self. She is panicking because she is in trouble and people will be doing and saying mean stuff to her. She is panicking because she herself is going to be held accountable for her crimes. This is not the same as remorse and only lightly touches on guilt in the sense of "OMG how am I going to get out of this". She would not panic or stress because Caylee was gone or missing or dead. She will panic based on how that might effect her. The critical operative element in any of her stress or emotional responses is "I, me, my, myself, KC" nothing else.
The sociopath will care about other people to the extent of how and only how it relates to themselves. They are entirely self fixated. The Psychopath doesn't really distinguish any difference between people and things. It's a subtle but critical difference.
Great and accurate synopsis!
Brattigirle
05-11-2011, 09:04 PM
It is as simple as ICA cut off circulation to her finger when she had them clenched so tightly as Judge Perry once again read the counts against her.
http://www.wftv.com/video/27859974/index.html
angeldust
05-11-2011, 09:04 PM
yep definately was a panic attack but just as a wee matter of interest, there is/was a case over here of a serial killer Peter Tobin and every time and I mean every time he appears in court he feigns heart problems and gets carted for medical attention. I think very soon the courts wisened up to his shenanigans x
LOL at the end of the day. she was rearranging stuff on the table then stood up, moved a couple more items and started the vigorous hand-rubbing again. Her hawk-eyed guard took it for about 30 seconds, then tapped her and ushered her out. ICA always has to speak to someone on the way out - just to prove she doesn't have to obey.
I don't think it was an actual panic attack. She wanted out of there and she knows what one looks like so she faked it. My sister used to do that to get out of any uncomfortable situation.
I think she is pizzed because she doesn't want to have to sit and listen and JB can't get her excused now like he has in the past.
.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 09:05 PM
Someone said that a "juror was slapped w/contempt" today? I missed that. Any details, please!
And, if JB lashed out at Casey and compared her to a two year old, you can bet that Casey was embarrassed and humiliated. She is used to having JB as her "rock", thinking he will be covering her @$$ at all times. Well, he's obviously had enough. That does not go with her normal expectation of him. She's out of her comfort zone with him now.
I suspect that as Casey was growing up, her parents dealt with her meltdowns the wrong way, and Casey became a great manipulator. I can see her as a 4 yr. old getting the attention away from anything she would be punished for, by having a stomachache, acting like she was hurt or sick, then the parents would refocus on that instead of whatever she had done that was wrong.
I wish I were a psychiatrist and she were my patient. I'd love to have her childhood before my eyes! And her parents (family dynamics).
Now that the Nancy Cooper trial is over, I'm back over here to Casey, and then on to the Jason Young trial which is upcoming. I live only a few blocks from NC's ex-home, and maybe 3 miles from JY's/Michelle's ex-home/murder site. Makes it especially interesting.
A young man was in the lunch room seated close to IS Media staff... he noticed
their Media badges and asked who they were with. One of the staff, aware that he was probably a potential Juror asked him "Are you up for Jury Duty" as he was going to explain to him that they are not allowed to talk to Jury at all. The guy answered 'Yes but I'm trying to get out of it". He tried to engage them in conversation again and was told what the rules were.
When they went back from lunch one of the IS staff reported him.
HHJP was not amused.
Coldpizza
05-11-2011, 09:10 PM
Anxiety is the least of her problems. All I can say is waaaaaaaaaaa and let my mind go to Caylee getting Justice.
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 09:11 PM
yep definately was a panic attack but just as a wee matter of interest, there is/was a case over here of a serial killer Peter Tobin and every time and I mean every time he appears in court he feigns heart problems and gets carted for medical attention. I think very soon the courts wisened up to his shenanigans x
Yes I think the jail staff see a lot of malingerers,and have seen this many times,both spontaneous and self-induced- it is quite easy to provoke these symptoms , so it wouldn't be totally shocking if she does it deliberately. It can look dramatic if you don't recognize what it is.
dizzychick
05-11-2011, 09:15 PM
I have panic attacks. I use to say I woudnt wish them on my worse enemy. Well now I dunno what to say LOL
Casey has lied so much, its hard to take any thing she says seriously. This is why your mother should have told you the " Boy who cried wolf story" when you were a child. ( Cindy probably skipped this one)
That being said, Ms. Anthony has alot to be panic-y about. What about telling the truth for once in your life, Casey. The truth will set you free....or lock you up...
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 09:23 PM
If you look at her hands as she walked out they are in spasm. It is tetany, spasms caused by hyperventilation.
Lots of psychological problems manifest themselves in physical symptoms.
She was feeling anxious, and started hyperventilating. She was taken out,
I think she was seen by a Nurse and probably given a paper bag to breathe in, and came back in after ten minutes or so. It's very common.
She does it to herself.....
I know what an anxiety attack is.. I have a pretty good understanding of psych issues. My point was that all I saw was her clenching and unclenching her hands.. I saw her and her lady lawyer messing with their hands together at the table before they took her out. I saw no other signs of an anxiety attack.. When did you see her hyperventilating?
elementary
05-11-2011, 09:25 PM
Exactly.
The spasming hands aren't psychological. They are a physiological effect caused by too much oxygen and not enough CO2 in the blood. In other words caused by hyperventilating. The hyperventilating is typically caused by stress. The hands are an actual physical problem. She really can't feel her hands and they really are spasming.
Work EMS near a University during finals week. You'll see enough of this to be able to spot and diagnose it in your sleep.
I haven't read the entire thread, but was going to state what you just did! When I was much younger I had a couple of experiences like that, and it was due to hyperventilation (due to severe anxiety). My hands went in to spasm- it was very scary. I lived. :)
This is a TERRIFIC sign. It means she finally gets it. That this is real. Awesome!:rocker:
OR, Jose won't give her the time of day and she can't function without her 'rock'. IMO, either explanation is plausible and possible.
Cross Creek
05-11-2011, 09:26 PM
She's been trying to leave since she first got there this morning. She appeared to be angry and upset throughout the day, especially with JB.
What's up with her and JB??? Is she pouting about him telling her she was acting like a 2 yr old yesterday?
elementary
05-11-2011, 09:32 PM
I know what an anxiety attack is.. I have a pretty good understanding of psych issues. My point was that all I saw was her clenching and unclenching her hands.. I saw her and her lady lawyer messing with their hands together at the table before they took her out. I saw no other signs of an anxiety attack.. When did you see her hyperventilating?
Just from my experience, hyperventilation is not necessarily perceivable as breaths tend to be quick and shallow. If you hold your body tensely on top of it it's not going to show. It also can come upon you suddenly, totally frightening you which of course makes it worse. There's also a lot of tingling in the hands before the spasm, as I recall. I tried to get rid of that sensation by clenching and unclenching my hands.
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 09:36 PM
yep definately was a panic attack but just as a wee matter of interest, there is/was a case over here of a serial killer Peter Tobin and every time and I mean every time he appears in court he feigns heart problems and gets carted for medical attention. I think very soon the courts wisened up to his shenanigans x
Yeah, they aren't dumb that's for sure but they have to assess them to cover their butts.
My mother used to do that when she'd get arrested- fake an anxiety attack.. LE would have to take her to the hospital and once there she'd really play it up- sometimes pretending to have another personality, her "little girl" self and she'd curl up in a little ball and try to act crazy. They always saw through her and she never got out of going to jail. Though she would usually get a shot of Ativan or another of the benzo's to keep her calm in her to her jail cell. :crazy:
costalpilot
05-11-2011, 09:39 PM
missyjane, I know what you mean. It is a paralizing experience. I can imagine if she's that upset, her arms will begin to feel like they each weigh a ton and her hands would feel that effect. She probably needs something to calm her.
However, meany old unsympathetic me says she did this to herself. Lying always has a way of catching up with someone. jmo
well if lying can be debilitating, how about murdering your own child? course it hasn't affected her that much so far but isnt this the first time she's had to sit and listen to continued references to what she has done? over a period of time?
even sociopathy may not be enough to get her thru this trial.
NocturnalLady
05-11-2011, 09:41 PM
http://www.wesh.com/r-video/27858640/detail.html
raw video of her leaving court
Looks like a panic attack to me. I know I'd be having them constantly if I was in her shoes!
wandering
05-11-2011, 09:48 PM
I think JB is finally sick of her and her antics, and she is scared because he's not coddling her any more. She actually has no one, if you think about it. She cut off her mom last weekend, and C & G are not there for jury selection. She has no one to manipulate, so she's losing it. She can't control this; I'm beginning to think she might not make it through the trial. She's in solitary, literally, even in court.
She may go mad. Highly appropriate, imo.
OMG if I were there - and did or didn't do it - you would have to pull me off the wall. Because, IMHO, no sane person can pull this off. Just like the <unusual person> who killed her 2 children while her husband was overseas. Did U see her shaking when she left the house?
IMHO ICA is gonna crash - big time. If she did this (and I'm convinced she did), she will lose it during the trial. She will either have to be heavily medicated or be set up in a straight suit.
MOO
Mel
-------------
I just lost my whole post !!:banghead:
Mel I agree with you. I have had panic attacks,had two bad years with them.
Casey is something else! The constant rubbing of her hands no wonder she has no feeling in them.The rubbing of her blouse,arms,shoulders and hair shows she has a problem.Her hair preening is driving ME nuts.Sometimes I think she subconciously hates her body for what "it" did. When they really get down to the nitty gritty she will lose it big time. This will be a trial like we have never seen before. Wait til the jury hears all the facts and sees those precious little bones.She will crack big time.I wonder if it bothers her that none of the young jurors try to flirt.:floorlaugh: I'd love to know what happened amongst her and her Attys...
passionflower
05-11-2011, 09:51 PM
I saw on TV that ICA has had 3 tearing sessions for 3 days of jury selection..........
reality setting in on her own death? Is she afraid of dying?
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 09:53 PM
p[edI know what an anxiety attack is.. I have a pretty good understanding of psych issues. My point was that all I saw was her clenching and unclenching her hands.. I saw her and her lady lawyer messing with their hands together at the table before they took her out. I saw no other signs of an anxiety attack.. When did you see her hyperventilating?
Right after HHJP read the indictment again, they were going to get busy selecting Jurors, when ICA put her head down, shook her head and mouthed NO. Soon after that she starts the crying, sniff sniff sniff sniff, dab eyes, sniff sniff, says she feels dizzy, puts her hand to her throat, can't breathe right, then the hands start bothering her and she and DS spend some time examining them, they are painful - she is led out with her fingers contracted.
HHJP goes on with business....
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 09:53 PM
Just from my experience, hyperventilation is not necessarily perceivable as breaths tend to be quick and shallow. If you hold your body tensely on top of it it's not going to show. It also can come upon you suddenly, totally frightening you which of course makes it worse. There's also a lot of tingling in the hands before the spasm, as I recall. I tried to get rid of that sensation by clenching and unclenching my hands.
I don't know, to me the tightness in your chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing are far more severe and debilitating then the tingling. You feel like you are about to die! I know I couldn't simply get up and walk about totally normal with the only obvious symptom being clenching and unclenching of hands and mouthing "ouch" on my way out the door. Even ON klonopin it was never that simple. I know everyone is different but it just didn't look like an anxiety attack to me, it looked like the same thing it looked like after they removed her cuffs at the new intake.
I'll shut up about it though lol
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 09:55 PM
p[ed
Right after HHJP read the indictment again, they were going to get busy selecting Jurors, when ICA put her head down, shook her head and mouthed NO. Soon after that she starts the crying, sniff sniff sniff sniff, dab eyes, sniff sniff, says she feels dizzy, puts her hand to her throat, can't breathe right, then the hands start bothering her and she and DS spend some time examining them, they are painful - she is led out with her fingers contracted.
HHJP goes on with business....
ahhh- ok- I didn't see that part... I only saw the hand thing, that's why I asked if I missed something. Clearly I did miss lots- thank you!
Kentjbkent
05-11-2011, 09:56 PM
I think JB is finally sick of her and her antics, and she is scared because he's not coddling her any more. She actually has no one, if you think about it. She cut off her mom last weekend, and C & G are not there for jury selection. She has no one to manipulate, so she's losing it. She can't control this; I'm beginning to think she might not make it through the trial. She's in solitary, literally, even in court.
She may go mad. Highly appropriate, for a ********. imo
Just watched video for first time and noticed NEITHER Baez or Mason showed any concern at all....so I think your statement above could refer to BOTH of them!
costalpilot
05-11-2011, 09:59 PM
I love your post. ITA
Just watched video for first time and noticed NEITHER Baez or Mason showed any concern at all....so I think your statement above could refer to BOTH of them!
baez kept right on drinking his tea
passionflower
05-11-2011, 09:59 PM
what happens at a trial if ICA has a nervous breakdown in the middle of this?
fla*mom
05-11-2011, 09:59 PM
I suffered from panic attacks for two years. It was pure he77! One thing with panic attacks once you suffer one in a certain place you try to avoid that place at all costs, and she can't avoid being in the court room so it is going to horrible for her. Did she bring this situation on herself, of course.
As the trial goes on and she is this much of a mess on day three I don't see how she will last the 6-8 weeks.
BigFatMommyDog
05-11-2011, 10:03 PM
I don't know, to me the tightness in your chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing are far more severe and debilitating then the tingling. You feel like you are about to die! I know I couldn't simply get up and walk about totally normal with the only obvious symptom being clenching and unclenching of hands and mouthing "ouch" on my way out the door. Even ON klonopin it was never that simple. I know everyone is different but it just didn't look like an anxiety attack to me, it looked like the same thing it looked like after they removed her cuffs at the new intake.
I'll shut up about it though lol
I don't think it was a panic attack per se. I think she talked herself into some kind of episode - it appeared her hands cramped and that scared her which may have have pushed the adrenalin button to a "near" panic situation. Hand cramps - stress, long days, bad nutrition (calcium, vitamin c), pressure on the ulnar nerve from her elbow on the table, dehydration and stress - I think she launched the ship herself - she was going for her grande finale. I also think she was looking for a little sympathy and buddy Baez was giving her none of that. (See Daddy! SEE! You made me get Sick!)
As a former sufferer of panic attacks - I could still drive - I was gonna die - but I was gonna get the car off the road... I had too, I had a baby. 20 some years ago now, every once in a very great while, I get one. Hate those things, but I know what they are, and once I found that out, I could (barely) manage them.
angeldust
05-11-2011, 10:03 PM
hi OLG
as she was being led out she was having difficulty breathing and her face started to flush It really looked genuine to me and I cant stand her.
I suffered from acute anxiety with somatisations for 5 years worst time of my life, so when she was walking out i noticed the flush her trying to control her breathing however I dont know if they gave her anything after as she appeared very calm I no nothing i was ever prescribed had such a calming effect at all.
Well maybe Im wrong and she is at it but i thought i recognised the beginning a genuine panic attack with her I dont think we ll ever know x a
jon_burrows
05-11-2011, 10:04 PM
well I just watch the video and she moved her one hand to push back her hair and she use her hands to push her self up out the chair. if her hands were numb she would slip back into the chair. I know this from my own issues with my hands and wrists. I will say she look a mess.
Justice coming Caylee!
I noticed she was still primping as she walked out too. Second picture:
http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/27859562/slideshow.html
After reading ICA's jail letters to "Muffin" I thought she was a bit of a hypochondriac. I suspect this is one of many times she'll be escorted out of the court room for some mysterious ailment.
As for your statement regarding her hands being numb, I agree. I have the beginning stages of carpal tunnel syndrome. Before my diagnosis, one hand would go numb and I would pinch it so hard it would bleed...didn't feel a thing even after drawing blood. This happened many times before I went to a doctor. There was no way I could have lifted myself out of a chair if one or both hands were numb. If it was just a tingling sensation, that's a different story.
Apex-mom
05-11-2011, 10:06 PM
I've only watched the video once, but you know when you clench your hands for a long time (esp. if you're cold) and then try to open your hands it's just stiff? We used to do that in high school all the time... clench your hands hard for a few minutes and they'll turn 'stiff' like you can't open them at all.
I just think sitting there all day with her panties in a twist about being ignored by Jose is making her FURIOUS and TENSE and her muscles just froze a bit. Then she just went with the drama, because hey after all, she's the Drama Princess.
:rolleyes:
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 10:09 PM
Someone on another site monitors 911 calls and is reporting that Pinellas county jail called 911 at 9.19pm for an 'Emotionally disturbed person'.
Granted it could be any of the inmates, but isn't this case full of coincidences like that?
I wouldn't be surprised if it is ICA...!
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 10:10 PM
And yet, she was able to push down on the arms of the chair to stand up, pull down on her pants legs as she got up, curl her fists together as she walked, and do the trade mark move she makes when walking in front of people - pull her elbow into her waist and lift her arm, that little insecurity thing she does.
Sorry. Don't care. Wish I did, but I don't.
Bold is mine-
ita. I suffered from anxiety attacks (it's how I ended up an Benzo addict) and they just aren't that pretty!
wandering
05-11-2011, 10:10 PM
what happens at a trial if ICA has a nervous breakdown in the middle of this?I don't know about Florida, but in California, Michael Jackson was ordered to trial even though he was in the hospital.
She would have to be PROVEN mentally ill, I think. :maddening:
ZsaZsa
05-11-2011, 10:13 PM
I don't know about Florida, but in California, Michael Jackson was ordered to trial even though he was in the hospital.
She would have to be PROVEN mentally ill, I think. :maddening:
She could watch it at a remote location (jail) as John David Mitchell did when he would not stop singing at his trial (Elizabeth Smart).
That might be a good idea, we wouldn't have to watch her primping all day long.
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 10:13 PM
what happens at a trial if ICA has a nervous breakdown in the middle of this?
Civil commitment?
angeldust
05-11-2011, 10:14 PM
Someone on another site monitors 911 calls and is reporting that Pinellas county jail called 911 at 9.19pm for an 'Emotionally disturbed person'.
Granted it could be any of the inmates, but isn't this case full of coincidences like that?
I wouldn't be surprised if it is ICA...!
It wouldnt surprise me in the least:maddening:
BigFatMommyDog
05-11-2011, 10:20 PM
She could watch it at a remote location (jail) as John David Mitchell did when he would not stop singing at his trial (Elizabeth Smart).
That might be a good idea, we wouldn't have to watch her primping all day long.
That primping thing is driving me nuts - what is up with that? I know we all have tics - but the hair stuff in particular - it's like petting a pet - I guess that's part of the self soothing. Even when my hair was down to my lower back, I didn't groom like that - loved to have my hair brushed and still do, but it's almost ... well it's dang weird
dog.gone.cute
05-11-2011, 10:25 PM
She did hyperventilate when told of Caylee's remains being found though!
That is what she did today. JB needs to shove a paper bag over her head. That would make for improvement all round....:innocent:
BBM:
:waitasec:
Will this do ?
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-char067.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
~Lisa~
05-11-2011, 10:38 PM
I have no doubt that she was feeling a lot of anxiety today.
but the whole hand thing was BS! What a DRAMA Queen!! JMO
RR0004
05-11-2011, 10:45 PM
I've only watched the video once, but you know when you clench your hands for a long time (esp. if you're cold) and then try to open your hands it's just stiff? We used to do that in high school all the time... clench your hands hard for a few minutes and they'll turn 'stiff' like you can't open them at all.
I just think sitting there all day with her panties in a twist about being ignored by Jose is making her FURIOUS and TENSE and her muscles just froze a bit. Then she just went with the drama, because hey after all, she's the Drama Princess.
:rolleyes:
...and I am so tired of the DRAMA!!!
SummerRaye
05-11-2011, 10:48 PM
I care not.
She really wants to make this a bigger circus than it already is. And that makes me super angry.
This is NOT about Casey. No one cares about Casey...we all care about Caylee and that is IT.
bah, she makes me angry.
Purple Iris
05-11-2011, 10:49 PM
Someone on another site monitors 911 calls and is reporting that Pinellas county jail called 911 at 9.19pm for an 'Emotionally disturbed person'.
Granted it could be any of the inmates, but isn't this case full of coincidences like that?
I wouldn't be surprised if it is ICA...!
Well, that wouldn't surprise me in the least if 911 had to be called for her.
As far as her little episode today - who CARES??
I'm not taking away or diminishing anyone here that has had or suffers from panic attacks.
But, we have seen her for her for the last 3yrs performing her hand rubbing and scrubbing, pressing her hands together and knuckle cracking.
She knows exactly what she is doing, and she knows exactly when to do it.
The girl thinks that she deserves an academy award, among many things.
I hope she gets hauled into the court room tomorrow looking like her mother did a couple of years ago in that "silent interview" where she was leaning on George.
Strap her into the chair to hold her upright, and get on with it.
She has wanted her cake and to eat it too, so, let her have her cake.
I apologize if I have offended anyone, but, the girl is an actor and has been all of her life.
sua_sponte
05-11-2011, 10:52 PM
Wow, there's lots of good stuff in this video, mostly in the 10th minute.
http://www.wftv.com/video/27859974/index.html
Around 10:10, you can see CM catch the attention of the attorney next to him(not sure of her name) who then quickly glances at ICA, and then back to CM and nods her head and seems to say, "I know" or something similar. I can't tell if it's a sympathetic look, or an annoyed look.
At 10:40, JP starts reading the false information counts, and she (with head still bowed and hands folded in front of face) shakes her head "no". It's interesting to me that the "false information" counts are the ones that seem to invoke the head shaking from ICA since those are the surest counts in which she is guilty. Curious isn't it?
Throughout the reading of the indictment she is "mouth breathing." This tells me that the crying is real. She can't breath through her nose. I think she really is starting to realize what's she's gotten herself into.
Throughout the video, she garnered not so much as even a side glance from JB. There is definitely something up there.
There is a laptop in front of CM. The lady atty next to him seems to be staring at it. She also keeps adjusting her position so that she is blocking ICA most of the time. I wonder if they are watching the live feed on that laptop and using it to keep ICA hidden from camera view?
Patty G
05-11-2011, 10:53 PM
WFTV learned that Casey had some sort of pain in her hand or wrist.
http://www.wftv.com/news/27849569/detail.html
mankato64
05-11-2011, 11:01 PM
If ICA has any anxiety issues so be it...She can suffer.
Wow, there's lots of good stuff in this video, mostly in the 10th minute.
http://www.wftv.com/video/27859974/index.html
Around 10:10, you can see CM catch the attention of the attorney next to him(not sure of her name) who then quickly glances at ICA, and then back to CM and nods her head and seems to say, "I know" or something similar. I can't tell if it's a sympathetic look, or an annoyed look.
At 10:40, JP starts reading the false information counts, and she (with head still bowed and hands folded in front of face) shakes her head "no". It's interesting to me that the "false information" counts are the ones that seem to invoke the head shaking from ICA since those are the surest counts in which she is guilty. Curious isn't it?
Throughout the reading of the indictment she is "mouth breathing." This tells me that the crying is real. She can't breath through her nose. I think she really is starting to realize what's she's gotten herself into.
Throughout the video, she garnered not so much as even a side glance from JB. There is definitely something up there.
There is a laptop in front of CM. The lady atty next to him seems to be staring at it. She also keeps adjusting her position so that she is blocking ICA most of the time. I wonder if they are watching the live feed on that laptop and using it to keep ICA hidden from camera view?
Also:
At approx 8:27 on the above video link KC shakes her head no slightly when the charge of unlawfully killing Caylee. You got to watch for it.
ETA: Watched this several times and IMHO this is an act. She's feeling sorry for herself if at all and not to be sassy but she's the only person I've ever seen that cries tears exclusively through their nostrils.
nosylla
05-11-2011, 11:11 PM
Also:
At approx 8:27 on the above video link KC shakes her head no slightly when the charge of unlawfully killing Caylee. You got to watch for it.
ETA: Watched this several times and IMHO this is an act. She's feeling sorry for herself if at all and not to be sassy but she's the only person I've ever seen that cries tears exclusively through their nostrils.
I watched all that live today and all I can say is it's obvious that she had better just buck up, because if she is going to display this type of "drama" when the trial is underway next week, and it gets really sticky with photos of the skeletal remains, and witnesses talking about her lies etc...and she possibly looses it...she is going to lose attorneys and disrupt court proceedings and it's going to be a pure circus!
Wise Old Owl
05-11-2011, 11:14 PM
I watched all that live today and all I can say is it's obvious that she had better just buck up, because if she is going to display this type of "drama" when the trial is underway next week, and it gets really sticky with photos of the skeletal remains, and witnesses talking about her lies etc...and she possibly looses it...she is going to lose attorneys and disrupt court proceedings and it's going to be a pure circus!
BBM
It already is.
sua_sponte
05-11-2011, 11:18 PM
Also:
At approx 8:27 on the above video link KC shakes her head no slightly when the charge of unlawfully killing Caylee. You got to watch for it.
ETA: Watched this several times and IMHO this is an act. She's feeling sorry for herself if at all and not to be sassy but she's the only person I've ever seen that cries tears exclusively through their nostrils.
What do you make of the glances between the attorneys at 10:10? Sympathy, or annoyance, or....?
nosylla
05-11-2011, 11:22 PM
Bold is mine-
ita. I suffered from anxiety attacks (it's how I ended up an Benzo addict) and they just aren't that pretty!
My daughter suffers from anxiety attacks. This thing I have observed over the past 3 years.. CA does have anxiety. She is insecure as is seen in the photos even with her friends partying. As well as with her daughter in the family videos.
But she really shows no compassion for her daughter when Caylee is spoken of, and it really is just all about 'her'. Often anxiety disorder goes hand in hand with eating disorders and sociopath and borderline personality disorders. I have a tendency to have pity on people with these disorders, but.... in my opinion...when they 'allegedly' kill their children, that sympathy goes out the door!
What do you make of the glances between the attorneys at 10:10? Sympathy, or annoyance, or....?
I can't be sure. The female with short gray hair glances to her left at the attn sitting there but I can't see that attn's face so I have no clue what she is nodding her head to and appearing to agree with. Could be about the charges being read or KC or it could have been it's warm in here today kind of comment?
JMHO
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 11:29 PM
My daughter suffers from anxiety attacks. This thing I have observed over the past 3 years.. CA does have anxiety. She is insecure as is seen in the photos even with her friends partying. As well as with her daughter in the family videos.
But she really shows no compassion for her daughter when Caylee is spoken of, and it really is just all about 'her'. Often anxiety disorder goes hand in hand with eating disorders and sociopath and borderline personality disorders. I have a tendency to have pity on people with these disorders, but when they kill their children, that sympathy goes out the door!
Everyone has anxiety to some degree- it's only a disorder if it interferes with your life. It never got in her way before, everyone has said she has had no mental health issues- she even said it to LE.. no history. Of course you are gonna feel anxious when you are on trial for your life.
lowens1975
05-11-2011, 11:35 PM
Wow, there's lots of good stuff in this video, mostly in the 10th minute.
http://www.wftv.com/video/27859974/index.html
Around 10:10, you can see CM catch the attention of the attorney next to him(not sure of her name) who then quickly glances at ICA, and then back to CM and nods her head and seems to say, "I know" or something similar. I can't tell if it's a sympathetic look, or an annoyed look.
At 10:40, JP starts reading the false information counts, and she (with head still bowed and hands folded in front of face) shakes her head "no". It's interesting to me that the "false information" counts are the ones that seem to invoke the head shaking from ICA since those are the surest counts in which she is guilty. Curious isn't it?
Throughout the reading of the indictment she is "mouth breathing." This tells me that the crying is real. She can't breath through her nose. I think she really is starting to realize what's she's gotten herself into.
Throughout the video, she garnered not so much as even a side glance from JB. There is definitely something up there.
There is a laptop in front of CM. The lady atty next to him seems to be staring at it. She also keeps adjusting her position so that she is blocking ICA most of the time. I wonder if they are watching the live feed on that laptop and using it to keep ICA hidden from camera view?
She looks down and cries as the charges are read. Is it the charges that are upsetting her or fact that she's being accused of them in front of all of those people? Or is she ashamed that she let things get this far? Ok, probably not the last one, but out of the first two I can't quite pinpoint which of them are bothering her the most.
OneLostGrl
05-11-2011, 11:38 PM
What do you make of the glances between the attorneys at 10:10? Sympathy, or annoyance, or....?
That big manly lady doesn't seem to like Casey very much all day today imo
eta- check the lady out between 11:28 and 11:48 in the video above
BigFatMommyDog
05-11-2011, 11:58 PM
...and I a so tired of the DRAMA!!!
But that's her daily bread - her currency - she has no other coin to trade. It's as important to her as breath.
nosylla
05-12-2011, 12:10 AM
Everyone has anxiety to some degree- it's only a disorder if it interferes with your life. It never got in her way before, everyone has said she has had no mental health issues- she even said it to LE.. no history. Of course you are gonna feel anxious when you are on trial for your life.
Well, with due respect..I have about 7 years of deep and expensive treatment experience with this disorder, and anxiety disorder is disruptive to the lives of everyone, including the family as seen in the Anthony family. I understand it would cause anyone anxiety to be on trial for 1st degree murder of your 2 1/2 year old daughter and facing the death sentence...to some degree, if your innocent or not, but I feel this is the whole underlying issue at hand from when CA gave birth to Caylee. It dominated the lives of the family, and the lying is a huge part of this disorder. I have first hand knowledge of the pathological lying etc. I don't want to get into personal details, but I know CA had a period in her incarceration where it was reported she suffered from Bulimia when she was in jail the first year.. and that - that illness of the ED is common with anxiety disorder, and I have have personal knowledge that this goes hand in hand with the habitual lying and and how CA acts and fidgits in these court proceedings and displays so many signs of insecurity, playing and grooming constantly with her hair ...basically obsessively, and the wiping of the table with the tissues....that that is all associated with a forms of OCD that all goes hand in hand with anxiety disorders and Eating Disorders and pathological lying. Just my opinion and living with a family member who suffers from all of these. I have seen it first hand and recognized CA as having and displaying all these disorders. jmo
OneLostGrl
05-12-2011, 12:15 AM
OK, check out what she's dong to her hands..she's gripping them so tight her fingers (and finger nails!) are purple. No wonder they hurt.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands3.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands2.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands4.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands5.jpg
OneLostGrl
05-12-2011, 12:20 AM
Well, with due respect..I have about 7 years of deep and expensive treatment experience with this disorder, and anxiety disorder is disruptive to the lives of everyone, including the family as seen in the Anthony family. I understand it would cause anyone anxiety to a degree, but I feel this is the whole underlying issue at hand from when CA gave birth to Caylee. It dominated the lives of the family, and the lying is a huge part of this disorder. I have first hand knowledge of the pathological lying etc. I don't want to get into personal details, but I know CA had a period in her incarceration where it was reported she suffered from Bulimia when she was in jail the first year.. and that - that illness of the ED is common with anxiety disorder, and I have have personal knowledge that this goes hand in hand with the habitual lying and and how CA acts and fidgits in these court proceedings and displays so many signs of insecurity, playing and grooming constantly with her hair ...basically obsessively, and the wiping of the table with the tissues....that that is all associated with a forms of OCD that all goes hand in hand with anxiety disorders and Eating Disorders and pathological lying. Just my opinion and living with a family member who suffers from all of these. I have seen it first hand and recognized CA as having and displaying all these disorders. jmo
Please don't feel like I'm telling you that you are wrong simply because we may not see things the same way. I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing your insight with us.. I don't want to make you feel like I'm dismissing you and I'm sorry if that's the impression I gave.
SevenSeas
05-12-2011, 12:25 AM
OK, check out what she's dong to her hands..she's gripping them so tight her fingers (and finger nails!) are purple. No wonder they hurt.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands3.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands2.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands4.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands5.jpg
Boy that AF certainly knows how to deliver her signature "death ray" stare, doesn't she?!
Misfitdolly
05-12-2011, 12:27 AM
OK, check out what she's dong to her hands..she's gripping them so tight her fingers (and finger nails!) are purple. No wonder they hurt.
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands3.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands2.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands4.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h13/OneLostGrl/Caylee/hands5.jpg
This is exactly what Raynaud's looks like. I am not convinced she was having a panic attack and I did not ever see her hyperventilating. She was having pain from Raynaud's symptoms and this is why she constantly rubs her hands together. The white fingers with purple on the ends is just how my son and my father's hands look when they are having trouble with Raynaud's and it can be very painful. JMO and I am not saying I have sympathy for her as a previous poster mentioned that they thought some posters were, just stating my opinion of the reason for her hand pain and hand rubbing behavior.
nosylla
05-12-2011, 12:31 AM
Please don't feel like I'm telling you that you are wrong simply because we may not see things the same way. I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing your insight with us.. I don't want to make you feel like I'm dismissing you and I'm sorry if that's the impression I gave.
I totally understand! I have to be honest and say this case gripped me from day one and as it sits with me watching most of the live feed from WESH site daily (they have the best live feed) I feel (in my opinion) she is guilty of this murder, and I (although it pains me to say) would vote for the DP in this case. If I were a juror and had all the evidence the state will lay out, in front of me... and I will add that being that I have followed this case very closely, I do not excuse CA at all, because I feel she has this personality disorder, but that I want justice to be served for Caylee Anthony. In my opinion, CA is guilty of 1st degree murder and it is just sad (to me) that her family did not see the signs early on, while Caylee was alive, and intervened and got CA the help she needed. Just my wee little opinion.
I don't know, to me the tightness in your chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing are far more severe and debilitating then the tingling. You feel like you are about to die! I know I couldn't simply get up and walk about totally normal with the only obvious symptom being clenching and unclenching of hands and mouthing "ouch" on my way out the door. Even ON klonopin it was never that simple. I know everyone is different but it just didn't look like an anxiety attack to me, it looked like the same thing it looked like after they removed her cuffs at the new intake.
I'll shut up about it though lol
BBM
From my experience with anxiety attacks....I totally agree!
Just Jayla
05-12-2011, 12:39 AM
Everyone has anxiety to some degree- it's only a disorder if it interferes with your life. It never got in her way before, everyone has said she has had no mental health issues- she even said it to LE.. no history. Of course you are gonna feel anxious when you are on trial for your life.
No Dx, however, three witnesses can potentially testify that KC expressed a desire to be committed/thought she was losing her marbles: MichelleM, KioC, & AnnieD.
ETA-Those occurances also seemed to involve Cindy in that KC would tell these ladies that she spoke wth CA and felt better-or, she would pretend she never said anything about feeling loopy at all. So, to me, this is how KC plays the women she knows-through claiming emotional "episodes" when she is lying or fighting with CA over something she no doubt did. When she is dealing with boyfriends, she tells them her dad/brother abused her in order to garner sympathy.
Piece of work.
That big manly lady doesn't seem to like Casey very much all day today imo
eta- check the lady out between 11:28 and 11:48 in the video above
LOL she's got quite a poker face but did I see a teeny tiny eye roll there when KC demanded attention? LOL JMHO
nosylla
05-12-2011, 12:44 AM
This is exactly what Raynaud's looks like. I am not convinced she was having a panic attack and I did not ever see her hyperventilating. She was having pain from Raynaud's symptoms and this is why she constantly rubs her hands together. The white fingers with purple on the ends is just how my son and my father's hands look when they are having trouble with Raynaud's and it can be very painful. JMO and I am not saying I have sympathy for her as a previous poster mentioned that they thought some posters were, just stating my opinion of the reason for her hand pain and hand rubbing behavior.
The signs of Raynaud's and her obvious discomfort today could also be due to her leaving her elbows pressed on the table for long periods of time and not moving around and circulating blood and causing numbness and creating "carpal tunnel" numbness. That was what I observed today and my first thought from analyzing her complaints visibly shown on the videos today and even yesterday and in the past court sessions when she gets up and then opens and shuts her fists like she is trying to get feeling back in her hands...and her constant rubbing her hands together, anxiety and trying to get feeling in them...now most recently can see when she motions towards the blonde attorney ...it appears her hands were going numb. I have carpal tunnel and if I rest my arms on a table for a period of time, my hands go numb. And that all stems from the anxiety and stress. Just sayin' :-)
OneLostGrl
05-12-2011, 12:46 AM
This is exactly what Raynaud's looks like. I am not convinced she was having a panic attack and I did not ever see her hyperventilating. She was having pain from Raynaud's symptoms and this is why she constantly rubs her hands together. The white fingers with purple on the ends is just how my son and my father's hands look when they are having trouble with Raynaud's and it can be very painful. JMO and I am not saying I have sympathy for her as a previous poster mentioned that they thought some posters were, just stating my opinion of the reason for her hand pain and hand rubbing behavior.
Wow, I have never heard of Raynaud's... Sounds painful- sorry your dad and son have to deal with that :(.
I always just felt all her fidgeting, pulling and yanking was a self soothing tool and a way for her to dissociate from the reality she is faced with at the moment (I don't believe she is a psychopath, I believe she does feel and this is her way of not having to feel her emotions.) I'm a (recovering) self injurer and 2 of the things I still find myself doing is I pick my skin (mostly my head, i dunno why) and scrape my fingernails over top of my thumbs as a way to sooth myself and "go somewhere else" in my head. I can sit for long periods doing nothing but picking at my skin. LOL, strange I know, but it gets me where I need to be (outside of my own head) for that time frame. Casey seems, to me, to be doing something similar because she does it in times of extreme stress or when she appears to be put on the spot.
I'm going to look up Raynaud's because it very well could be she has something like that!
OneLostGrl
05-12-2011, 12:50 AM
I totally understand! I have to be honest and say this case gripped me from day one and as it sits with me watching most of the live feed from WESH site daily (they have the best live feed) I feel (in my opinion) she is guilty of this murder, and I (although it pains me to say) would vote for the DP in this case. If I were a juror and had all the evidence the state will lay out, in front of me... and I will add that being that I have followed this case very closely, I do not excuse CA at all, because I feel she has this personality disorder, but that I want justice to be served for Caylee Anthony. In my opinion, CA is guilty of 1st degree murder and it is just sad (to me) that her family did not see the signs early on, while Caylee was alive, and intervened and got CA the help she needed. Just my wee little opinion.
Ohh they saw the signs they just enabled her instead of holding her accountable or getting help for her. imo
Your opinion isn't "wee" :blowkiss:
nosylla
05-12-2011, 12:52 AM
Wow, I have never heard of Raynaud's... Sounds painful- sorry your dad and son have to deal with that :(.
I always just felt all her fidgeting, pulling and yanking was a self soothing tool and a way for her to dissociate from the reality she is faced with at the moment (I don't believe she is a psychopath, I believe she does feel and this is her way of not having to feel her emotions.) I'm a (recovering) self injurer and 2 of the things I still find myself doing is I pick my skin (mostly my head, i dunno why) and scrape my fingernails over top of my thumbs as a way to sooth myself and "go somewhere else" in my head. I can sit for long periods doing nothing but picking at my skin. LOL, strange I know, but it gets me where I need to be (outside of my own head) for that time frame. Casey seems, to me, to be doing something similar because she does it in times of extreme stress or when she appears to be put on the spot.
I'm going to look up Raynaud's because it very well could be she has something like that!
I think these are all tied together. My family member did all what you mentioned you have problems with, the self injuring. You are right on with "this is her way of not having to feel her emotions". You hit the nail on the head!! Also a symptom of anxiety disorder. (AKA which is a disorder that spreads itself out into a wide range of personality disorders and destructive behaviors) Thank you OneLostGirl.
What a great group of sharp people here!
Just Jayla
05-12-2011, 12:52 AM
I'm sure someone discussed already-But how is this episode different than when Lt. Uncer watched her hands do funny things the day KC found out Caylee's body had been discovered?
KC complained that her handcuffs were squeezing her when they were not, as if they were supersensitive. She did hyperventilate that day, IIRC.
So, she goes bonkers when the fact that she killed Caylee is brought before her. Like Dr. Vass reading a gas chroma-thingy, we can read her reactions, and there are spikes in her reactions to this particular subject unlike any other.
Even if it's acting, she feels the subject of Caylee dying is the moment for the show to go on-that's still a reaction.
Put a big flashing sign over her head that reads "Baby Killer" and get on with it.
nosylla
05-12-2011, 12:54 AM
Ohh they saw the signs they just enabled her instead of holding her accountable or getting help for her. imo
Your opinion isn't "wee" :blowkiss:
Absolutely! Another moment of you "hitting the nail on the head!" :-) :innocent:
faefrost
05-12-2011, 12:59 AM
This is exactly what Raynaud's looks like. I am not convinced she was having a panic attack and I did not ever see her hyperventilating. She was having pain from Raynaud's symptoms and this is why she constantly rubs her hands together. The white fingers with purple on the ends is just how my son and my father's hands look when they are having trouble with Raynaud's and it can be very painful. JMO and I am not saying I have sympathy for her as a previous poster mentioned that they thought some posters were, just stating my opinion of the reason for her hand pain and hand rubbing behavior.
Hyperventilating isn't the big "gasping for air" appearance that TV drama have taught us it is. It's simply involuntarily breathing too fast to properly support metabolism. While it is difficult to get a good count from the video, what little I see seems to show her breathing at well over 120 breathes a minute, and probably getting closer to somewhere between 150 and 180. Somewhere between 2 and three breathes a second. This will cause the hand cramping and tingling that was displayed today. While this can be caused by some physiological issue, it is most often caused by extremes of anxiety or stress. As some will loosely call it "panic attacks". When it's occurrence is concurrent with actual real world stressors, such as say high pressure college exams or your daughters body being found in the woods where you dumped her, or the states toughest judge signalling the start of your capital first degree murder trial by telling the world outright what you stand accused of doing, then it doesn't really indicate any deep or ongoing physiological or physiological issues. I think the defendant having a bit of a stress spell at the start of their death penalty trial is not unexpected by anyone. Nor will it in any way slow or derail the proceedings.
claudicici
05-12-2011, 01:01 AM
I agree this was definitely not a panic attack but I also agree that anxiety goes hand in hand with insecurity (at least for me) I think until yesterday KC was able to hold it together ok because JB gave her that security (she was probably convinced he's in love with her,just like any guy) and that stopped when he told her she was acting like a two year old.
Just like lost girl ,I never believed KC is a sociopath but she definitely disassociates from reality (obviously) I never thought her crying is fake,on the contrary I think she tries hard not to.I think crying was an absolute taboo in the Anthony household where everything is kept light and hidden not to upset Mrs.CA.I think to her crying means loosing total control.I think from the time she entered the courtroom today she was falling apart because JB was ignoring her.She is starving for his sympathy so she can concentrate on that otherwise the fact that she murdered her daughter will become real for her and she is not going to handle it IMO
Brassband
05-12-2011, 01:03 AM
I Image googled Raynauds and to me KC just looks like she's clasping her hands so tight she's cutting off the circulation.
raynauds - Google Search
ExpectingUnicorns
05-12-2011, 01:16 AM
I have secondary Raynaud's caused by a rare immune system disease. It is my understanding through research that my personal experience with the disease is common in that only the digits are involved ~ not the entire hand or foot. If her whole hand was involved it would be quite rare. It appeared to me that she was indicating that her hand (as she was showing her palms) was what was bothering her.
In a serious flare, my finger (or several fingers) will first turn white then a deep, deep purple. That's when it's painful. You can even see a distinctive line, usually for me at the second joint, where it changes dramatically from normal color to the white or purple.
So based on my years of personal experience and diligent researching for relief, I would be surprised if Casey has Raynaud's. If she does, it's certainly an atypical presentation.
ExpectingUnicorns
05-12-2011, 01:19 AM
I Image googled Raynauds and to me KC just looks like she's clasping her hands so tight she's cutting off the circulation.
raynauds - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=raynauds&cp=4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=1024&bih=592)
Yes, perfect, Brassband. I should have been as smart as you and just linked the images instead of trying to describe it. These pictures are exactly what it looks like on me. Thanks!
Cross Creek
05-12-2011, 01:19 AM
Just watched video for first time and noticed NEITHER Baez or Mason showed any concern at all....so I think your statement above could refer to BOTH of them!
I agree this was definitely not a panic attack but I also agree that anxiety goes hand in hand with insecurity (at least for me) I think until yesterday KC was able to hold it together ok because JB gave her that security (she was probably convinced he's in love with her,just like any guy) and that stopped when he told her she was acting like a two year old.
Just like lost girl ,I never believed KC is a sociopath but she definitely disassociates from reality (obviously) I never thought her crying is fake,on the contrary I think she tries hard not to.I think crying was an absolute taboo in the Anthony household where everything is kept light and hidden not to upset Mrs.CA.I think to her crying means loosing total control.I think from the time she entered the courtroom today she was falling apart because JB was ignoring her.She is starving for his sympathy so she can concentrate on that otherwise the fact that she murdered her daughter will become real for her and she is not going to handle it IMO
And notice CM was not sitting next to her either giving his usual little pats on the back!!
katydid23
05-12-2011, 01:21 AM
What do you make of the glances between the attorneys at 10:10? Sympathy, or annoyance, or....?
It is like the quick look between two parents when one of the kids is acting out in public, and you acknowledge it between yourselves, but try and ignore it, hoping they will stop on their own. imoo
elementary
05-12-2011, 01:23 AM
I don't know, to me the tightness in your chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing are far more severe and debilitating then the tingling. You feel like you are about to die! I know I couldn't simply get up and walk about totally normal with the only obvious symptom being clenching and unclenching of hands and mouthing "ouch" on my way out the door. Even ON klonopin it was never that simple. I know everyone is different but it just didn't look like an anxiety attack to me, it looked like the same thing it looked like after they removed her cuffs at the new intake.
I'll shut up about it though lol
Are you saying the perp displayed tightness in chest, pounding heart, sweating, hard time breathing? Because that is a panic attack. Hyperventilation is going into the extreme with tingling of hands and then total, very scary spasm in those hands. The respective symptoms are not related. In my experience. Both have to do with anxiety, but manifest very differently.
LinasK
05-12-2011, 01:26 AM
Without having read this thread yet, my gut reactions to her behavior are either: 1) it's finally dawning on her that she's not getting out of this trial, or 2) she's pulling a Michael Jackson, with his spider bite, to try and delay this, anyway she can!!!:loser::boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:
mitzi
05-12-2011, 01:35 AM
Good capture Momtective! Here's another 1!
She was very pale...but that might be just "prison palor. (sp) :crazy:
Jetaime
05-12-2011, 01:42 AM
I've already stated this, but I believe her anxiety attack was quite *real*. That was the first [and only imo] time that she didnt give a spit that she looked horrible, (and she did).Also, she spent a whole 5-7 minutes without grooming/worrying about how she looked. Add to that a pasty hue with a nauseous face... well- that's exactly how I look when I'm having an anxiety attack.
Not to sound like a mod or anything, but this post lands at random. I came across this, and was blown away because it reminded me soooo much of ICA.....
http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
per_curiam
05-12-2011, 01:52 AM
LOL she's got quite a poker face but did I see a teeny tiny eye roll there when KC demanded attention? LOL JMHO
I haven't used the quote feature correctly since coming back to WS...so I'll add that I mean to add OneLostGirl's quote about "...that manly lady..." next to Casey in court.
This person has white and grey thick short hair, glasses, dark pointy eyebrows, a pinstripe blue man's shirt and a blazer. And you all are saying that's not a man? Well then, who is it? Looks just like a man to me. As I've said, I'm recently back into the Anthony case.
Whoever it is surely looks "mean"!
ETA: I believe the term for self soothing behaviors which are repetetive, sort of like a tic, is called "stimming", for stimulating themselves. Read up on it on Google if you'd like. It's seen in mental issues. Some autistic children have it, for one. They will repeat one gesture over and over, like beating a hand on a table constantly, etc.
I haven't used the quote feature correctly since coming back to WS...so I'll add that I mean to add OneLostGirl's quote about "...that manly lady..." next to Casey in court.
This person has white and grey thick short hair, glasses, dark pointy eyebrows, a pinstripe blue man's shirt and a blazer. And you all are saying that's not a man? Well then, who is it? Looks just like a man to me. As I've said, I'm recently back into the Anthony case.
Whoever it is surely looks "mean"!
Attorney Ann Fannell
Cher352
05-12-2011, 02:04 AM
Just watched the video and haven't read through the whole thread but....
I think it was an act. She has been conning people for years. Remember GA's supposed heart attack? I think she was hoping to get taken to the hospital to be checked out and stop these preceedings. JB and CM lack of concern makes me believe that they felt the same thing.
OneLostGrl
05-12-2011, 02:13 AM
Are you saying the perp displayed tightness in chest, pounding heart, sweating, hard time breathing? Because that is a panic attack. Hyperventilation is going into the extreme with tingling of hands and then total, very scary spasm in those hands. The respective symptoms are not related. In my experience. Both have to do with anxiety, but manifest very differently.
No I was speaking of my own experience with anxiety disorder and panic attacks. The very last thing I'd be bothered by was the numbness and tingling. The tightness in chest, pounding heart, sweating and hard time breathing- feeling as if I were about to die right were I sat were always the worst part. I just can't imagine how one could get up (using the very hands that people here insist were numb and spasming to push herself up and out of the chair) primp themselves then hold their hand saying "ouchie" in the middle of an anxiety attack.
technicalconfusion
05-12-2011, 02:13 AM
That might be a good idea, we wouldn't have to watch her primping all day long.
OT,but why, if your bangs hanging in your face bug you as much as they seem to do ICA - why wear your hear like that? I hate my hair around my face. Because of this, if it's long, it's kept back off my face. A better option for me is just to shave the whole mess and be done with it.
costalpilot
05-12-2011, 02:27 AM
Everyone has anxiety to some degree- it's only a disorder if it interferes with your life. It never got in her way before, everyone has said she has had no mental health issues- she even said it to LE.. no history. Of course you are gonna feel anxious when you are on trial for your life.
this is the longest she has been subjected to public scrutiny as accusations (valid) against her are being levied.
that is gonna make anyone nervous, even a practiced sociopath. well, maybe not anyone. but obviously her guilt is finally taking a toll. imagine that. it took this long, and this much scrutiny.
welcome to the gates of hell mom.
claudicici
05-12-2011, 02:36 AM
I think the long bangs are a manifest of her insecurities as well.when I was younger I definitely could not go without them....and tons of make up,still do....I always thought all her grooming are signs of insecurities not narcissism as well IMO
katydid23
05-12-2011, 02:43 AM
Did anyone notice how Baez made Casey's intro to the jury pool?
" And it is my pleasure to introduce you to Casey Marie Anthony."
I thought that was so awkwardly weird.
katydid23
05-12-2011, 02:50 AM
this is the longest she has been subjected to public scrutiny as accusations (valid) against her are being levied.
that is gonna make anyone nervous, even a practiced sociopath. well, maybe not anyone. but obviously her guilt is finally taking a toll. imagine that. it took this long, and this much scrutiny.
welcome to the gates of hell mom.
I just watched her 'panic attacxk' again. It must be brutal on one's psyche to sit there and listen to Judge Perry's voice as he spells out each of the charges, in excruciating detail. I am so happy that she has to do so every single time they bring in a new panel. I think it is finally getting to her.
OneLostGrl
05-12-2011, 02:51 AM
I haven't used the quote feature correctly since coming back to WS...so I'll add that I mean to add OneLostGirl's quote about "...that manly lady..." next to Casey in court.
This person has white and grey thick short hair, glasses, dark pointy eyebrows, a pinstripe blue man's shirt and a blazer. And you all are saying that's not a man? Well then, who is it? Looks just like a man to me. As I've said, I'm recently back into the Anthony case.
Whoever it is surely looks "mean"!
ETA: I believe the term for self soothing behaviors which are repetetive, sort of like a tic, is called "stimming", for stimulating themselves. Read up on it on Google if you'd like. It's seen in mental issues. Some autistic children have it, for one. They will repeat one gesture over and over, like beating a hand on a table constantly, etc.
lol yeah I'm a little too blunt at times.. I should have described her better, more respectfully. sorry :)
Ya know, I always wondered about the stimming thing... if that's really what it is I'm doing and they (my revolving door of shrinks and therapists etc.) have it wrong. The problem with finding out is that I have issues- (big ones LOL). I have rapid cycling Bipolar disorder with mixed episodes and psychotic features, I'm a self injurer and have Tourette syndrome, OCD and Anxiety disorder (ie: Tourette's plus) and I was raised by a borderline mother and an ASPD step father so I have a history of self defeating and self destructive coping. So it was just always attributed it to my SI and OCD. Anyway, I'll stop there because it has absolutely nothing to do with Casey but your post about the stimming made me think about it again after not having thought about it for a long time.
MsFacetious
05-12-2011, 03:05 AM
I just watched her 'panic attacxk' again. It must be brutal on one's psyche to sit there and listen to Judge Perry's voice as he spells out each of the charges, in excruciating detail. I am so happy that she has to do so every single time they bring in a new panel. I think it is finally getting to her.
She freaked out when she found out they had found the body of a child.... which turned out to be her child.
She freaks out when they read what she is accused of doing to her child...
What is she going to do when they bring out the pictures of her child?
I mean, the pictures of what was left of her child after those things she is accused of doing?
They better have a straight jacket or injection or something ready for that...
Peepers McPeep
05-12-2011, 03:31 AM
She may have not eaten much, low blood sugar, stress, little sleep,
bickering with her beau. Life is rough.
She definately changed from ashen / yellow/ green.. a chameleon..
fitting..
LiveLaughLuv
05-12-2011, 06:21 AM
YouTube - weshtv's Channel
ICA had what I beleive was an anxiety attack...awww, poor thing, she can't have Baez undivided attention...she is not going to make it through the end of the trial...she should just change her plea...might I add....what an actress....JMHO
Justice for Caylee
21merc7
05-12-2011, 06:24 AM
I have to agree just sitting there hearing the charges, seeing the people staring at you, and nothing to do but sit there is a bit much. However, KC has sat there and intentionally tried to hyperventilate. You can watch for every time the Judge reads them, she begins it instantly. She tries to rapid, shallow breath, she presses her hands together in a tight, tighter, tighter ball, elbows mashing into table, psyching herself out to cry or faint.
If it is no act, which I cannot say it is or not, it just appears to be an act, then maybe the jurors saying they think she is guilty is getting to her. Maybe she realizes for the first time in her life she will be held responsible for her actions. Maybe she wishes she would not have done it. Who knows?
I am just not certain it is not an act. Each time her actions are like watching instant replay.
CarolinaMoon
05-12-2011, 06:36 AM
In spite of taking medications, I still have occasional attacks of anxiety (they don't panic me, never have) which can cause all my muscles to constrict. It feels like there are steel bands around my chest and back, pain in my jaw even to the point of feeling like every tooth in my mouth needs to be yanked, pronto! Minor attacks cause my hands to go numb or tingle uncomfortably. There's more things that can happen, like the time my entire skull went numb all of a sudden.
That's why I don't think Casey is "faking" this. I do think that Baez is sick of her behavior, which has changed dramatically since the hearings. Her lawyers have so many things to worry about in jury selection, Casey's behavior is being viewed as a detriment to the case and a nusiance.
I do believe she has hit the Wall of Reality and can't figure a way around it. The new surroundings and many new, strange faces have probably all affected her.
She is her own worst enemy and always has been. She may be able to keep her cool about her daughter's remains because they don't mean anything to her. But she now clearly sees her own jeopardy and it is becoming more and more difficult for her to keep control of herself.
Notice how "her boys" have abandoned her and no longer comfort her constantly. They have other things to be concerned about and probably think it's "all in her head" and there's nothing much they can do. That attitude only adds to her anxiety. The comfort of women does not help as much, probably because of her attitude towards her own mother and other women in general (think Amy Huizenga).
She needs meds pronto or she is going to sink even faster than she was before.
catnron
05-12-2011, 07:03 AM
IMO: I believe Casey has been in jail for so long now that she has become what some call "Prison Mentality or Instituionlised". For 3 years now she has been in a small cell day by day. She has not been in a car nor traveled only to the court house in Orlando, She has had very little conversation with anyone other than her attorneys. She has become Institutionlized "Prison Mode" I believe she cannot deal with life now outside her cell in orlando, she can't deal with this many people day by day.Casey will have a breakdow IMO each day.She cannot be held in a cell for 3 years only to come out and suppose to be normal for court, it is not going to happen.JMT
In spite of taking medications, I still have occasional attacks of anxiety (they don't panic me, never have) which can cause all my muscles to constrict. It feels like there are steel bands around my chest and back, pain in my jaw even to the point of feeling like every tooth in my mouth needs to be yanked, pronto! Minor attacks cause my hands to go numb or tingle uncomfortably. There's more things that can happen, like the time my entire skull went numb all of a sudden.
That's why I don't think Casey is "faking" this. I do think that Baez is sick of her behavior, which has changed dramatically since the hearings. Her lawyers have so many things to worry about in jury selection, Casey's behavior is being viewed as a detriment to the case and a nusiance.
I do believe she has hit the Wall of Reality and can't figure a way around it. The new surroundings and many new, strange faces have probably all affected her.
She is her own worst enemy and always has been. She may be able to keep her cool about her daughter's remains because they don't mean anything to her. But she now clearly sees her own jeopardy and it is becoming more and more difficult for her to keep control of herself.
Notice how "her boys" have abandoned her and no longer comfort her constantly. They have other things to be concerned about and probably think it's "all in her head" and there's nothing much they can do. That attitude only adds to her anxiety. The comfort of women does not help as much, probably because of her attitude towards her own mother and other women in general (think Amy Huizenga).
She needs meds pronto or she is going to sink even faster than she was before.
ITA...I also question if it is part of the program due to them trying to get in the psych docs and what they said....I question everything now...the splitting of the boys and girls---could play into that evil man therory??? IDK...it is just getting wierd--perhaps she also realizes she isn't in control anymore? She seems to hold it together better with the boys by her side? I do question why do the charges bother her so much, yet the smell of her deceased precious child and all that other stuff we have heard NOTHING????? More like bring on the tears when confronted with ones lies?
Like I mentioned I"m thinking this "breakdown" of sorts could be a ploy to delay.....I certainly hope her mom watched today and decides the inmate needs a "motherly" touch from her real mom....:innocent:
strawberry
05-12-2011, 07:27 AM
IMO: I believe Casey has been in jail for so long now that she has become what some call "Prison Mentality or Instituionlised". For 3 years now she has been in a small cell day by day. She has not been in a car nor traveled only to the court house in Orlando, She has had very little conversation with anyone other than her attorneys. She has become Institutionlized "Prison Mode" I believe she cannot deal with life now outside her cell in orlando, she can't deal with this many people day by day.Casey will have a breakdow IMO each day.She cannot be held in a cell for 3 years only to come out and suppose to be normal for court, it is not going to happen.JMT
And all that conversation would have been about getting her free, perhaps that the "State has no case", that the "Junk science would be thrown out". She is getting a large dose of reality; that those opinions are apparently the small minority, not reality.
strawberry
05-12-2011, 07:29 AM
She may have not eaten much, low blood sugar, stress, little sleep,
bickering with her beau. Life is rough.
She definately changed from ashen / yellow/ green.. a chameleon..
fitting..
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::great:
maryland
05-12-2011, 07:40 AM
Do you think she is acting this way because she is not getting her way sitting next to JB?I know that it has been reported that she is a mess if he isn't in court with her. I think she has a huge crush on him.I think she is sending a message to JB I am going to act up unless I get my way.
21merc7
05-12-2011, 07:41 AM
Do you think she is acting this way because she is not getting her way sitting next to JB?I know that it has been reported that she is a mess if he isn't in court with her. I think she has a huge crush on him.I think she is sending a message to JB I am going to act up unless I get my way.
Lol! I have thought about this, I also think she is jealous of the pretty young attorney that was at the podium Tuesday and sits behind JB. (She also does not like the young female jurors it appears.)
magnolia
05-12-2011, 07:44 AM
She may have not eaten much, low blood sugar, stress, little sleep,
bickering with her beau. Life is rough.
She definately changed from ashen / yellow/ green.. a chameleon..
fitting..
My guess would be low blood sugar.
Blue Jackets fan
05-12-2011, 07:45 AM
Lol! I have thought about this, I also think she is jealous of the pretty young attorney that was at the podium Tuesday and sits behind JB. (She also does not like the young female jurors it appears.)
I doubt that. From what it looks, she really did had an attack and needed medication.
Personally, I wish I could feel sorry for her, but what she went though yesturday was minor compared to what she did to that poor little child she murdered without mercy.
CarolinaMoon
05-12-2011, 07:47 AM
ITA...I also question if it is part of the program due to them trying to get in the psych docs and what they said....I question everything now...the splitting of the boys and girls---could play into that evil man therory??? IDK...it is just getting wierd--perhaps she also realizes she isn't in control anymore? She seems to hold it together better with the boys by her side? I do question why do the charges bother her so much, yet the smell of her deceased precious child and all that other stuff we have heard NOTHING????? More like bring on the tears when confronted with ones lies?
Like I mentioned I"m thinking this "breakdown" of sorts could be a ploy to delay.....I certainly hope her mom watched today and decides the inmate needs a "motherly" touch from her real mom....:innocent:
It could be a ploy, especially since Casey's mind works in strange ways. However, I'm betting that her appearance/reactions to the stress of the situation resemble very much her "attack" on learning that Caylee's remains had been found. The difference is: Baez can't get THIS video sealed and it looks very bad for her.
Before:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/ritanita/Casey%20Trial/Dec10Caseyenterscourtnotforposting.jpg
After:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/ritanita/Casey%20Trial/Day3AnotherView.jpg
Blue Jackets fan
05-12-2011, 07:50 AM
It could be a ploy, especially since Casey's mind works in strange ways. However, I'm betting that her appearance/reactions to the stress of the situation resemble very much her "attack" on learning that Caylee's remains had been found. The difference is: Baez can't get THIS video sealed and it looks very bad for her.
Before:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/ritanita/Casey%20Trial/Dec10Caseyenterscourtnotforposting.jpg
After:
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii103/ritanita/Casey%20Trial/Day3AnotherView.jpg
Again I don't think she is faking it for attention. She proberly was having a attack.
magnolia
05-12-2011, 07:51 AM
I doubt that. From what it looks, she really did had an attack and needed medication.
Personally, I wish I could feel sorry for her, but what she went though yesturday was minor compared to what she did to that poor little child she murdered without mercy.
What she went through yesterday is nothing compared to what she is about to go through. Wait until the SA gives their opening statements. ;)
Blue Jackets fan
05-12-2011, 07:53 AM
What she went through yesterday is nothing compared to what she is about to go through. Wait until the SA gives their opening statements. ;)
I just want her to be sane enough to go through the trial.
LambChop
05-12-2011, 07:56 AM
I haven't used the quote feature correctly since coming back to WS...so I'll add that I mean to add OneLostGirl's quote about "...that manly lady..." next to Casey in court.
This person has white and grey thick short hair, glasses, dark pointy eyebrows, a pinstripe blue man's shirt and a blazer. And you all are saying that's not a man? Well then, who is it? Looks just like a man to me. As I've said, I'm recently back into the Anthony case.
Whoever it is surely looks "mean"!
ETA: I believe the term for self soothing behaviors which are repetetive, sort of like a tic, is called "stimming", for stimulating themselves. Read up on it on Google if you'd like. It's seen in mental issues. Some autistic children have it, for one. They will repeat one gesture over and over, like beating a hand on a table constantly, etc.
The attorney is Ann E. Finnell. She is a graduate of Duke University and very well respected. What you see is her serious look because apparently she is very nice and certainly one of the best attorneys KC could ever want for the mitigation process. jmo
catnron
05-12-2011, 08:09 AM
And all that conversation would have been about getting her free, perhaps that the "State has no case", that the "Junk science would be thrown out". She is getting a large dose of reality; that those opinions are apparently the small minority, not reality.
Strawberry, I am not saying she is not guilty or that she does not deserve what she gets. I am saying that her mind now has become a prison IMO.
What she went through yesterday is nothing compared to what she is about to go through. Wait until the SA gives their opening statements. ;)
I'm waiting for the last tape of Caylee--that one gets me--especially when they have the voices on it...such a waste!!! That baby was full of life.....I remember when my kids were that young and read me stories like that!
I Din Doot
05-12-2011, 08:17 AM
CHLOROFORM will sooth and calm all the anxiety she is suffering.
momtective
05-12-2011, 08:38 AM
In spite of taking medications, I still have occasional attacks of anxiety (they don't panic me, never have) which can cause all my muscles to constrict. It feels like there are steel bands around my chest and back, pain in my jaw even to the point of feeling like every tooth in my mouth needs to be yanked, pronto! Minor attacks cause my hands to go numb or tingle uncomfortably. There's more things that can happen, like the time my entire skull went numb all of a sudden.
That's why I don't think Casey is "faking" this. I do think that Baez is sick of her behavior, which has changed dramatically since the hearings. Her lawyers have so many things to worry about in jury selection, Casey's behavior is being viewed as a detriment to the case and a nusiance.
I do believe she has hit the Wall of Reality and can't figure a way around it. The new surroundings and many new, strange faces have probably all affected her.
She is her own worst enemy and always has been. She may be able to keep her cool about her daughter's remains because they don't mean anything to her. But she now clearly sees her own jeopardy and it is becoming more and more difficult for her to keep control of herself.
Notice how "her boys" have abandoned her and no longer comfort her constantly. They have other things to be concerned about and probably think it's "all in her head" and there's nothing much they can do. That attitude only adds to her anxiety. The comfort of women does not help as much, probably because of her attitude towards her own mother and other women in general (think Amy Huizenga).
She needs meds pronto or she is going to sink even faster than she was before.
Exactly...she's almost at the end of the proverbial hallway but, this time there is nowhere to turn around and go the other way.
Her airway is clear and she's breathing. She's conscious and alert. There are no signs of bleeding or blood loss. She can self ambulate. After her dramatic escort out of the courtroom, she's attended to by her lawyer, not medical personnel and is deemed fit to return to court.
Such a dramatic medical emergency. Makes you wonder how the family reacted when she started to grow a huge abdominal tumor. Oh wait, they ignored it. :)
Jean Casarez was just on HLN and said that KC couldn't move her hands. She is totally losing it. She can't handle the pressure of jury selection? What the hell will she do when the prosecutors start there case? No cowtowing parents trying to placate and walk on eggshells with her.
I hope that they come on strong like Navy Seals from the minute opening statements begin. I foresee plenty of panic attacks and theatrics from KC. I wonder if she can request some type of anti-anxiety meds without being able to later claim she wasn't of sound mind? I don't put anything past her or the DT for an appeal.
Actually, good enough for her. Those are the same hands that put duct tape across Caylee's face!!!
I have not one ounce of sympathy for that killer. JMHO, of course.
Yes, she can. I'm on anti-anxiety meds and they don't blunt anything. They just ease my anxiety so that I am not a crying mess every day. My hands going numb or tingling is the first sign I am having an anxiety attack. I know enough now to work through them. Shoot all they had to give her was a hot cup of tea with lots of sugar. That stops the attack for me anyway
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